RSSAruba, Just How Much Evidence Do You Need to Actually Prosecute a Case? When is New Evidence not New Evidence, or is the Issue the Judge Reviewing It?
When is new evidence not new evidence … when it takes place in Aruba. Is it the evidence that is the issue, or is it the judges that are reviewing the evidence?
One needs to ask the following question of Aruba officials and the Aruban people. What would happen in Aruba if a suspect was tried and convicted of a rape, murder or other violent crime and was serving time in prison only to have new evidence presented in their case because of new technology. Say for instance, new DNA testing that proved 100% that the convicted suspect could never have committed the crime. In Aruba, would that be considered new evidence? Would that new evidence be used to exonerate the suspect and allow the falsely convicted suspect to go free like HERE or HERE. Or would the Aruban legal system say, who cares … you must finish your sentence for a crime that you did not commit?
Now answer that very same question in reverse. What’s the difference when that same new evidence proves that a crime was committed and by who? Would not that be considered new evidence in an investigation? Hmm?
Thus is the situation in the Natalee Holloway investigation where the Aruban prosecutor, Hans Mos, presented new evidence from a suspects computer hard drive that stated, “Natalee Holloway was dead”. Evidence that the prosecutor states was only made newly available through new technology from the Netherlands. How can new evidence gained from new technology not be considered new evidence is the real question. The question then really becomes, is it the evidence that is the issue or the judge reviewing the evidence.
With the newest digital technologies from the Netherlands, the investigation team this time recovered what was impossible earlier. On the hard drive of a confiscated computer was a chat-session, in which one of the suspects said that the missing teenager Natalee Holloway is dead. The OM didn’t say which of the suspects said that, but the information is substantial and especially ‘new’ evidence, and sufficient for the OM to arrest the three. Obtaining information from new technology is also considered new evidence, explained Mos. He compared it with a DNA-investigation that after years, can still give evidence.
Take a good hard look at what this evidence really is folks. A suspect who was last seen with Natalee Holloway before she disappeared forever and said she was dead. This occurred between 5 and 6 hours after Natalee Holloway was last seen with the three suspects. Why would a person who was seen leaving Carlos n’ Charlie’s with Natalee Holloway ever reference the word “dead” if they did not have person knowledge that the Alabama teenager was in fact dead? We have been told all during this case, “if there is no body, there is no crime”. That is utter nonsense, if a suspect references the fact that the person in question is dead … then guess what … that is a complete admission to the fact that she is. Now the question arises, how and why would any of the three suspects make such a claim or even have knowledge of such information? This admission of “death” is long before the story had ever been reported or the TV cameras and media came to Aruba.
In an Internet chat shortly after Holloway vanished, one of the three suspects said she was dead, Mos said.
The chat, retrieved from a computer hard disk, was among new evidence prosecutors used to justify re-arresting the three in November, he said.
New technology that was not available in 2005 was used to find that chat and more between two of the three suspects, as well as others, he said. (CNN)
We will not even get into the fact that the three suspects had an MO and openly bragged on line about what their plans were to do to American girls that they picked up. No premeditation there, huh? Think there were references to the potential use of “date rape” drugs in those chat sessions? Seriously people, how exactly do you think that a person walks out of a bar in less that 1/2 hours with another person that they had never met before? Hmm?
Other chats written before May 30 were also found, in which the suspects discussed “picking up American girls and what they plan to do with them,” Mos said. Such chats gave authorities an idea of how the suspects operated, he said.
Why would one need new technology to create a time line of the declarations? However, what one would need to do is actually look at the declarations and see that the three suspects constantly changed their versions of the story of what happened the night that they were last seen with Natalee Holloway. Even the OM agrees that the last version of the suspects statements are lies.
The new investigation team with Dutch detectives could also use technologies to make a timeline of all the declarations. It appears that the last version of the three suspects on the day that Natalee disappeared is also not correct.
OM gives up core evidence Holloway-case (Amigoe, 12/21/2007)
Chief district attorney Hans Mos explains why the case against the three suspects in the Natalee Holloway-case was dropped.
ORANJESTAD – A chat-session, computer disks, and two new testimonies were among others, the reason for the OM to detain Joran van der Sloot and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe in November, indicated chief district attorney Hans Mos yesterday in a press conference, where he explained the case that has been dropped.
With the newest digital technologies from the Netherlands, the investigation team this time recovered what was impossible earlier. On the hard drive of a confiscated computer was a chat-session, in which one of the suspects said that the missing teenager Natalee Holloway is dead. The OM didn’t say which of the suspects said that, but the information is substantial and especially ‘new’ evidence, and sufficient for the OM to arrest the three. Obtaining information from new technology is also considered new evidence, explained Mos. He compared it with a DNA-investigation that after years, can still give evidence.
The new investigation team with Dutch detectives could also use technologies to make a timeline of all the declarations. It appears that the last version of the three suspects on the day that Natalee disappeared is also not correct. Other new, indirect evidence are two testimonies. A woman told the team in June of 2005 that five hours after Natalee was seen alive for the last time, she received a telephone call from one of the three former suspects. From his voice she noticed that something was wrong. When she asked him what was wrong, he said that he doesn’t want to compromise her. “I cannot tell you what has happened over the phone”, was his answer.
In a declaration in November of 2006, a witness described the deviant behavior of one of the three one day after the disappearance of Holloway. That was also indirect evidence. The new evidence was for the judge too indirect and not enough to keep the three in custody. But Justice was confident that the three would start talking.
“Information they gave the media gives the impression that they had more things to say than they had told us until now”, said Mos, who said that the conversations the three former suspects had with Dutch journalists were also filed as evidence in the dossier.
With all this evidence that the OM obtained after the three were released at the end of summer in 2005, the judge give them permission to arrest the three. The OM was also in a hurry, due to the European treaty on the suspects’ rights to be tried within a reasonable period of time. The OM has set a deadline for December 31. Mos says that Van der Sloot and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are still the three most important persons in the investigation, and possible new evidence will be investigated till the term of investigation is over. The police corps in Aruba keeps therefore four detectives available for new information and implication. Term of limitation for culpable homicide is six years and manslaughter is 12 years.
The case will be reopened if necessary. According to Aruban law, it is possible to close the criminal case without bringing it before the court. A definite acquittal can be avoided with this. The former suspects are also protected against ‘repeated troubling for the same facts based on the same evidence’. But the protection is less powerful than acquittal. After an acquittal by a judge in last instance, it won’t be possible to bring the same facts before the court again.
Posted December 23, 2007 by Scared Monkeys Amigoe, Aruba, Corruption, Crime, Deepak Kalpoe, Joran Van der Sloot, Judicial, Murder, Natalee Holloway, NH Statements | 50 comments |
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50 Responses to “Aruba, Just How Much Evidence Do You Need to Actually Prosecute a Case? When is New Evidence not New Evidence, or is the Issue the Judge Reviewing It?”
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Paulus has a judge staying at his house preventing ALE whole house search. Why stop the search if you nothing to hide. Yes the judge in Aruba is probably bought and paid for. Also Pvs keeps doors open for many unanswered questions like his house search in hopes that nobody can solve their crime. Paulus is an evil, murdering pervert along with Joran that will prey on women and children. Anita is a fat slob with irrational delusional thinking and unable to face the truth. Who wants to face a son like Joran.
Maybe someday somebody will take Paulus and Joran out. There are a thousand others to take their place. Their is no justice for some without it being forced. I am here to say justice does not always prevail in this world.
Aruba has gone awry.
I don’t think that Aruba will ever move against these scum unless Natalee’s body is recovered and there is proof in the recovery to link them to it.
Next question: Why won’t Aruba act? Because they have some bigger secret to protect, seems to me.
What could that be? Well, you don’t want to hear my views on that again …. But all this web of secrecy, starting from day one, sure isn’t being done ONLY for the lowlifes named van der Sloots.
Or Kalpoes.
For anyone interested in contacting Dutch Companies in the USA just go to here. The corporate headquarters are easily searched for contacts and adresses.
http://www.hoovers.com
All incriminating evidence will be ignored. All confessions will be ignored. All admissions will be ignored. This is a community that lives in a bubble. They believe that they are a force unto themselves and can act in accordance to their own arbitrary rules, and that what the ‘outside world’ thinks will never affect them. Because, as they see it, “WE ARE ARUBA”. And according to them, the world NEEDS THEM. Needs Aruba!!!
And from all indications, they’re all buddies. The judge, the Van Der Sloots, the Kalpoes, the cops. All of them. They have teamed up to defeat any inference that a crime was committed, not only IN Aruba, but by the three suspects. I have no doubt that they will all be celebrating the arrival of the new year at the Van Der Sloot residence. Congraduating each other on a job well done. While the world shakes it’s collective head and decides to spend its money elsewhere.
Not where I intended to go, but I think I have read everything that Tim Miller has said. What an interesting guy. I’ve never put that much energy into anything in my life. Not even a fraction.
Tim said on Dana’s show that if Natalee’s body is in 800 feet plus of water, and in a cage, that it will be perfectly preserved, almost like being put in a cold refrigerator, and evidence will be there also.
I hope, I pray, that they find Natalee. I hope they find her in the ocean in 800 feet of water.
If someday, they find her in the landfill. There will be nothing, no evidence left, other than skeletal insults. I think she is there. Nothing else caused the stir that the landfill search did. Nothing else brought suspects to the verge of confession. No other witness put as much effort into his or her story as did Junior. He even helped with the search.
He’s a crack-head they say, but he is a sincere crack-head, and Dave Holloway believed him.
Natalee is in the landfill.
I’m sorry. It’s the landfill.
A few have come forward and said they believe the same. A few, a very few.
Jerry
Admissions like that made to another person via telephone, in person have been used to put many guilty people in prison. The one testifying would be vigorously cross examined as to their credibility and if the jury deemed them credible, a conviction would follow. Now we have the internet which like the phone allows the communication of incriminating facts to be discussed BUT actually retains the admission of guilt and incriminating internet searches on the hard drive, evidence that is just as powerful as hearing via wipetap phone an admission that Natalee is dead within 5 hours before that person is even reported missing. Maybe even more powerful.
So retrieving this info off the computer hard drive is *new* and not available in May 2005???
WOW……just tell that to Scott Peterson who sits on death row now & had used his pc to do searches on the tides of the San Francisco Bay in October 2003, a couple of weeks before Laci (his wife) disappears.
The admission and the timing of when it occurred is only eclipsed by the new info Mos gave us saying that proof of PREDMEDITATION of what they were going to do to an American female tourist is also on one of the suspect’s hard drive days or a week or more before Natalee actually *GO’S MISSING*!
Jurine let it slip with Greta that they had done this 20 times before and now we KNOW they discussed what they planned to do via the internet! That is staggering and damning evidence standing on it’s own yet Mos reads it off like he’s reading the ingredients off the back of a Kool Aid package.
If they had a video of them doing the crime, they wouldn’t prosecute it, they would send out more paid liars to tell you what you witnessed you didn’t really see, it was a figment of our imaginations. Send out more defense lawyers telling you their clients walk on water and are one step away from sainthood. Just look at the statements by the defense lawyers, everytime they open their mouths they contradict themselves or each other. Just like their clients. btw why so many high priced defense attorneys for “the girl left on the beach”?
That indeed be new evidence, but that still isn’t enough for an conviction.
There was an case in the Netherlands where 3 guys kicked somebody to death, but because there was no way to proof who delivered the fatal blow no one was convicted for murder, they where convicted assault leading to death (don’t know how to translate.)
So unless there turns up some evidence that absolute ties these 3 to Natalee’s death there is no way they are gonna get convicted for it.
Actually said that, this makes the case more simple.
Breaking it down in 2 possibilities.
1. Natalee was actually murdered by these 3.
2. Natalee ran away/fell in the hands of human trafficers.
Let me explain.
If her death was accidental (or overdose), there would be no need to lie about it, cuz it was an accident and the worst that could happen was an conviction for not aiding Natalee.
You don’t get convicted for delivering the drugs causing an overdose (maybe an convicting for the drugs, but that’s peanuts).
So the most likely is option 1, but unless there’s some very hard evidence that ties those 3 to her death, there is no way they are gonna get convicted, even if they would find here body, then they would have to proof who murdered her.
So yes indeed, having an statement from an chat claiming that’s she’s dead is worthless in an Aruban court.
(imo)
1. Rough sex while she was unconscious.
2. She woke up, and nailed Joran a f’n walloping good one to his ugly big egg shaped head! It infuriated him even more than the fact that
he possesses a small penis…
* J-bo, if you’re trolling again… Hi, boy you
izzzz one UG-LY mo-fizzle! Merry Christmas,
numb nutz, I hope someone got you a FILE.
3. Joran brutalized her. He basically killed her!
4. Paulus Vandersloot covered his sons tracks
by whipping out a small caliber pistol, and
shooting her right between the eyes.
He did that, because as we all now know, Paulus
Vandersloot WILL DO ANYTHING FOR HIS SON.
…and when he says ‘ANYTHING’…
that drunkard, womanizing a$$ho really means
it, buddy roe!
-j4n
Paulus made his threat the last time they came close, ‘I’ll tell it all, but a lot of people are gonna get hurt’…..
The Prime Minister said, ‘The recovery of the body of Natalee Holloway, would be an embarrassment of 97,000 people and would ruin the reputation of Aruba being the safe and happy island; effecting our tourism’….
The Minister of Justice said, “He was not aware of the up-coming arrests of the three suspects. Now,’ he says, ‘we have embarrassed ourselves internationally, as well.’
After trying to shut down the local Newspaper and putting out warnings that anyone talking on the internet with the Aliens, will be considered guilty of Treason’….
Public Hangings
People found in a cave with their heads, arms, legs cut off with multible stab-like wounds into the cooked carcass…
Carcasses found on beach, near the fallen bridge…
Human Bones wash ashore during storm…
.
Oduber will protect his Indians above anyone else.
Perhaps what he calls embarrassed should be called
“shame” or “feelings guilt” and a feeling of dred.
Arawak: It’s his “Heritage”.
.
Boycott Aruba!
A special treat, JVS aka rapist murderer scumbag and spawn of the fat ugly wart face Anita, has addressed the media in the following article:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/23/europe/EU-GEN-Netherlands-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php
Correction:
Oduber will protect his Indians above anyone else.
Perhaps what he calls embarrassed should be called
“shame” or “feelings of guilt” and a feeling of dred.
Arawak: It’s his “Heritage”.
.
Boycott Aruba!
There will never be enough evidence in Aruba. They will continue playing their dirty hand until they’re all played out. They will never admit the way those poor children die…
Oduber is condoning the murder of a U.S. Citizen. Isn’t there something wrong with this picture? Since when are tortured and murdered children supposed to fin for themselves against a leader of a Nation?
The Ministers have gone tooooo far.
.
Boycott!
Ahhh, no Joran that’s not correct:
“Van der Sloot said he believed his latest arrest was intended to please American media.”
Americans won’t be pleased until you’re found {{edit}}.
Clearly, of course, the issue is the judge’s misleading interpretation of the “new evidence” which he really DID NOT bother to review at all. Actually, the freaking idiot is most likely the same judge who is a friend of Paulass van der Slut’s, you know the same judge that stays with the Slut family when he visits Aruba!
What dirt does Paulass have on the Aruban officials anyway? Who is protecting the van der Slut family and why? Why are the officials in the Netherlands playing along?
BOYCOTT ARUBA AND THE NETHERLANDS TIL HELL FREEZES OVER!!
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
Carpe:
Did he put a band-aid on it?
Susan:
He is the same judge… dirty hand.
I’ve seen nothing in Natalee’s case that makes me believe she was trafficked. As the prosecutor says, they have chat sessions where they target American girls and what they do with them or going to do with them. 3 guys all going out to pick up one girl that night at closing time..not cool. Paulus told them if they had no body, they had no case, the day after she disappeared. Paulus put the night in play to start with when he took his underage son out drinking and gambling with him. Apparently that isn’t a crime in Aruba either. As I said before, let’s send all the criminals to Aruba,,, they wouldn’t have to worry about doing time. JoeT can come down and defend them all, pro bono.
The only thing they label a crime is a reporter trying to go get the story or the mother looking for her child. Rudy Croes made a threat.. he didn’t rule out shutting Beth up.
I believe what the FBI said about Joran, he is a sociopath. Frankly, I don’t see his charm.. Behind his eyes I just see a cold blank nothing. Wouldn’t want my daughter near him.
Ray:
Thanks for the link!
I think that he’s being coached…
When they arrest him to stand trial in the U.S.
HE’ll BE CRYING Like A baby…
wwwWWWhhhhHHHaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
OHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Daddy?!?!?!?!?!
Hi Patti,
A band-aid on Joran’s
li’l mini dill pickle, ya mean?
* A very small round one, perhaps.
…
A Slideshow
http://tinyurl.com/35ex7x
-j4n
Patti – Why am I not surprised? As I’ve stated before, this judge should have removed himself from the case due to a conflict of interest. The judge(s) wouldn’t know “evidence (old or new, incriminating, etc)” or a “conflict of interest” if it were hit up side the head with a brick.
easiest solution is to punish them with a boycott they will never forget. Boycott until they lose their homes and their children are begging in the streets and selling their bodies to tourists. Wouldn’t that be a switch
It’s COWBOYS and INDIANS!
I think that Natalee will be found in the cage in
125 feet of water. She will be flown to the U.S.
for forensics.
And THEN, the end will come.
Aruba…
You and your dirty hands,
your gamblin’ men
and your worthless women.
The Arawak Nation will fall…
And there will be Justice in Aruba.
.
Justice for Natalee!
I agree that there is a strong possibility that Natalee was put in the landfill. Although I hold out hope that this is not true and I think that it’s almost as likely that she’s in the water.
I also agree that nothing can make Aruba convict these four. They seemed to have purposefully closed the case (that’s not really closed)as if to tell everyone on the Perseverence that their efforts will not be considered by Aruba. I’m still glad they are doing it though because anything that might recover Natalee’s body will bring a measure of peace to Dave, Beth & the rest of their families.
Aruba has made their position very clear to us. It’s now up to us to make sure Aruba sees our position as clearly. It’s not going away Aruba. We aren’t quiting. Stick a fork in your American tourism. It’s done.
This is probably the same story that Ralph (#12) has posted, but I’ll put the text of it here:
Holloway case suspect regrets no trial 26 minutes ago
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands – A former suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager Natalee Holloway told a Dutch newspaper he regretted that he was not formally prosecuted for any crime.
ADVERTISEMENT
Dutch teen Joran van der Sloot, 20, was re-arrested in Aruba in November for a new interrogation about Holloway’s disappearance in 2005. But public prosecutors on the island closed their investigation Dec. 18, saying they believed Holloway was dead but they did not have enough evidence to prosecute van der Sloot or two other former suspects.
“I would have liked to have seen a trial so that everything could be out in the open,” van der Sloot told newspaper DAG in his first public remarks since being released on Dec. 7. The newspaper published excerpts from the interview Sunday. DAG spokesman Bob Witman said the interview was conducted via e-mail with van der Sloot in Aruba, where he is currently staying.
All three suspects denied any involvement in Holloway’s disappearance.
Van der Sloot denied there was any new evidence to prompt his arrest again last month, as prosecutors had asserted.
“There was no new evidence at all,” he told the paper. “Dutch detectives tried to get me to talk for 15 days. They told me that Natalee was dead.”
Prosecutors say their new evidence was a statement by one of the suspects during a tapped Internet chat in which he said Holloway was dead. But defense lawyers denied that.
Van der Sloot said he believed his latest arrest was intended to please American media.
“I’ve been declared guilty without any factual evidence and I’m left to prove my innocence,” he told the paper.
Prosecutors said as things stand, the case can be reactivated if “serious” new evidence emerges. Reactivating the case would be impossible however if they were to prosecute and fail, due to rules against double jeopardy.
Holloway was on a high school graduation trip to the island when she vanished May 30, 2005, hours before she was to return home to Mountain Brook, Ala. Extensive searches of the island turned up no trace of her.
The three former suspects, who are the last people known to have seen her, initially said they dropped Holloway off at her hotel.
After hotel security cameras disproved that, they were arrested and van der Sloot said he left her alone on a beach and had no idea how she disappeared.
Maggie (#19) … You are probably correct when you say there is no evidence to show that Natalee was trafficked off Aruba into captivity.
Nor is there any evidence showing the contrary, as far as I know. Not yet, at any stage.
Lots of contradictory stories and statements galore … but there’s nothing to disprove it.
We do know that much of the land has been searched so far, with no sign of Natalee’s remains. We do know that there has been an extensive cover-up involving a lot more people than the initial three suspects, and that it has gone on since very early.
(Or does anyone wish to maintain that there has NOT been a cover-up, that sheer incompetence is to blame? I asked that question on an earlier thread; nobody replied.)
And once again … does anyone think that this is all being done, at great cost to Aruba and with a permanent destruction of its tourism image, to protect a handful of lowlifes such as vd Scums?
I don’t. I might well be wrong, of course, but the fact is that we simply don’t know yet.
I firmly believe the only course to follow to find out exactly what happened is an immense economic boycott. Not only travel to Aruba but its products; few that they have.
But it is not really the Aruban people who are totally responsible for the case to become stalled. Judges are appointed by the Netherlands. Obviously then a vountary boycott against Dutch travel and Dutch products is necessary. Hitting them in the pocket book is the only thing they will understand. Start with Shell products.
Write letters to the Corporate headquarters and tell them why you/we will no longer purchase their products. They are no longer welcomed as an American commodity. Also contact Holland America and tell them to drop America from its name. We do not want the association.
Told ya… I smelt a rat!
I just wonder how far this Moe is going to push his issue. It could go to a higher court. Clearly, it’s new evidence. Incriminating evidence that together with circumstantial evidence could lock someone up for years to come.
If Moe is Dutch and there is more evidence to go with this tape, certainly, he should have a right to have his case heard. Afterall; as much as Aruba hate to admit it, they live in the twenty-first century and any new scientific breakthrough, that is as material as these tapes, should be given a lot of weight, on the scales of justice.
I still wonder if they found any DNA in the soil they dug from near the rock, or in Sloots back yard? The Dutch said that they were working on some rather difficult DNA tests. Certainly, blood that seeps into the soil deteriorates quickly, however, maybe they found someone ELSE’s DNA, or several people’s DNA there and are just sitting on it, waiting to see what comes of this issue.
One would like to think that a country as advanced as The Netherlands would have a handle on this case with all the telephone calls and records. The money shifting hands, I would assume, either being deposited or withdrawn from Paulus’ account. There are so many areas at which to solve this case… and yet Aruba want’s to suck it’s thumb and pretend the whole thing never happened.
Oh sure Joran wishes there were a trial so everything could come out. No one has ever prevented Joran from presenting all the evidence he wished to the press. That rings just about as true as Anita stating that she wished the boys had been taken into custody right away.
It’s Joran and his daddy that have stopped information from being released, got other innocent people arrested, kept their property from being searched, lied and lied and lied.
Hey Joran: Everything CAN come out without a trial. You simply need to start answering questions from A-Z including who really picked you up that night, who’s next to Natalee in the Casino, What did you put or have put in Natalee’s drink, where did you really go that night, where are your shoes, what about the furniture truck at your house while you were in jail, what’s the “chit that if found” will put you in jail for 15 years, what did Deekap mean with “your own dad” exclamation, why did daddy need to advise “no body, no case” if you had nothing to do with any body, why is Koen wetting the bed, why did his family move………… Answer these, and then Richard has a bunch more for you.
of course Joran wanted to stand trial because with no body yet (hopefully that will chance sooner rather than later) he would stand a more than excellent chance of being found not guilty. Such a verdict would have saved him from further prosecution because of the fact that you cannot try someone for 1 and the same crime.
I heard on Foxnews a guy say statue of limitations in this case is actually 12 years.
anyone know if that is correct ?
of course Joran wanted to stand trial because with no body yet (hopefully that will chance sooner rather than later) he would stand a more than excellent chance of being found not guilty. Such a verdict would have saved him from further prosecution because of the fact that you cannot try someone for 1 and the same crime.
———————————————
this is an excellent point. If a trial was forced, he walk. Better to wait and see if the searches turnup more.
No evidence is the evidence. The investigators need to be investigated. Conflict of interest in this case is so pervasive, yet no one is investigating the friends of the Van Der Sloots who conducted this bungled investigation. Natalee was not abducted by aliens with no witnesses and all traces of her removed.
These 3 are guilty as hell. Someone find out who is paying all the legal fees.
BTW there is another missing American girl in Aruba today..
If you ever played high school football, this will make sense.
You just started your junior year as quarterback for the varsity football team, and guess what? The school just hired a new football coach, and he has a son who is a freshman. Everyone knows freshman don’t start, but this kid does, and guess what? He plays quarterback. He sucks, it’s true: but his father is the head coach.
The only way you are going to get off the bench and on the field is if you join the band, or your daddy is on the school board and cans the head coach. Sorry, but true. The coach’s son always plays quarterback. It doesn’t matter how bad he stinks.
The same is true with the “judge’s” son. To get the son, you must remove the father from the formula. I’m not talking murder here, just arrest Paulus and take him to the Netherlands. Then, and only then will this investigation get back in the game and on the field.
Jerry
It makes sense, it just does, and that Natalee would be dropped into the ocean. It doesn’t change my mind about the landfill, but I do entertain other possibilities. (Burial at sea is #3 or # 4 on my list)
Joran obviously has some scuba diving experience. He would know that any depth below one atmosphere would require decompression dives, unless no nitrogen is used, and therefore be expensive and time consuming, and probable be done on a limited basis during the search; and only in areas which were designated high priority.
Jerry
Has anyone ever speculated on this? The fishermen were there that night, near the fisherman huts. Joran kills Natalee, buries her body in a hurry, goes to the ATM, gets money, pays the fisherman to put Natalee in a cage, and drop her in 800 feet of water. They could not retrieve the body, and Joran would say they did it, if they told.
They better research the area where the meet the fishing boat.
Jerry
Where they meet the wooden fishing boat.
I have EVERY CONFIDENCE that ALL of the corrupt/ drug kingpin paid “officials” are watching every movement made by the Persistence, filming the search activities, monitoring transmission conversations, following crew movements to their apartment, etc.
They are scared beyond shitless as they know the entire free WORLD is watching and waiting. There will be VERY SEVERE consequencies of unimaginable proportions to senior Aruban officials after Natalee’s remains are recovered. That is a given, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, Natalee will be found.
I think the theory of Natalee being “dumped” at sea (that’s exactly what it is…dumped…I have a hard time thinking of it as a burial for obvious reasons) has the most warrant. It explains the stolen crab/lobster trap.
I do agree, however, there is something suspicious about the landfill as well as pvds’s property. Perhaps those locations contain items of interest, ie: clothes, jewelry, tennis shoes, video, for fear they could wash up on to shore.
Any thoughts?
More of the same old stuff.
Joran, Depak, Satish and Papa perp will all get what is due them eventually. They will have to answer for what they did. Their infamous mugs are known throughout the world. Where can they go without people pointing fingers at them? Joran only goes to Netherlands and Aruba. Kalpoes don’t leave Aruba. Paulis hunkered down in Aruba also. Hide you cowards! One day Natalee will have justice, one day.
Conbtinue to boycott Aruba and all Dutch territories.
Pray for Dave and Beth and Natalee that one day they will have peace.
in wartime it is fine to torture a suspect when you are quite certain they are hiding something. In non-wartime we just sit and wait knowing full well that Paulus, Joran and the Kalpoes were involved in not only raping and murdering Natalee, but also hiding her remains. Instead of torturing it out of them (cost about 10K), we have a search team with estimated cost of over a million dollars.
Some things just don’t make sense!
ORANJESTAD – The lawyers of the three former suspects, Hose Figaroa, Ronald Wix, Elgin Zeppenfeldt, and David Kock said in a press conference, that the ‘new’ evidence that the Public Prosecutor (OM) provided after the dismissal do not tally. Their office has been swamped lately with hatred mails and threats, including death.
A girl from Surinam told the Dutch detectives in June of this year that right after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005, she had a conversation with Satish. “That can never be convincing after two years, is the opinion of Wix. “”She might have said that something was wrong, but for as far as I am aware of, she only said that Satish was sad.” Wix also has problems with the other testimony taken out of an old chat-session of Deepak’s computer. “That chat session was about two subjects: the disappearance of Natalee and the death of a tennis instructor that drowned near Conchi. The word ‘su’ that can mean ‘his’ or ‘her’ in Papiamento, was interpreted wrong in the transcript. Instead of ‘su morto’, his death, it became her death. Also the court realized the misinterpretation; Deepak would have otherwise been behind bars. Nobody has ever said that Natalee is dead, but the OM assumes that with this testimony.”
The lawyers consider the fact that Justice hinted that the former suspects of manslaughter on Natalee Holloway haven’t seen the last of them, even worse. The OM said in a press conference this week that the case has only entered a new phase, and is not closed. As soon as there are more clues, these will be investigated, and the former suspects, including Joran van der Sloot, will be arrested again. Wix says that what the OM said is indeed possible, but the evidence must be ‘very weighty and new’. “The OM keeps the delusion that the three are still suspects. Legally, they must be left alone, and due to the dismissal, Aruba has nothing to say about their innocence. Let them find the girl first and only then can they annoy our clients. They cannot even proof that there was a crime.”
Justice’s other reason for arresting the three former suspects was based on their declarations to the media that they would tell what exactly has happened in the night Holloway disappeared. They didn’t say anything though. According to Wix, everything has already been said. “They said that they won’t talk, but in the meantime they have already given at least 20 declarations. They were arrested because there was new evidence, but then it turned out that there was no new evidence, so they had nothing to say.”
Wix, together with his brother councils, will probably demand damages. They are currently considering via the court whether they can recover the costs for among others hiring a lawyer in the US. Wix won’t say what the amount is.
The firm David Kock & Wix was swamped with threats during the ‘reopening’ of the Holloway-case. They received many hatred mails and also death threats. “I received two more of such e-mails on Thursday. One of them wishes the death for me and my family. The other one said, ‘you must wish that I do not come to Aruba. Maybe, I ought to report that”, said Wix.
Amigoe.com
Just want Dave and Beth to know that Natalee is not forgotten. We will find her and prosecute the guilty.
We will not use death threats, or torture and we will not beg.
However before we are finished; Aruba and The Netherlands will be begging for us to listen to what happened.
A promise made is a promise kept!!!
Shango come back.
New to this board, hello everyone.
Question– Have any recent efforts been made to question Koen Gottenbos?
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/27/joran-van-der-sloots-many-stories-koens-fathers-boat-one-of-the-many/
WCH 47:
He was questioned in the early stage of the investigation; but the ALE did not accept it and wanted to question him again. His father Alexander Gottenbos said no you can’t and the ALE said OTAY we won’t.
The four moved to Dacula Georgia after the mother and father sold their businesses.
So no to your question. I have not heard about the FBI questioning any of the four since moving. And since they are no longer on Aruba there is no reason for the ALE to question them either.
If the cover up is working; why pull down the covers?
Dave Holloway always said that Koen was the key to finding out about what happened to Natalee.
COme on Koen…speak up. I just saw you peeping in here
It strikes me that the lack of availability of a grand jury at law in Aruba is a real drawback and true hindrance to the Holloway investigation. With the power of a grand jury subpoena, U.S. investigators can compel a witness to come forward and testify truthfully– and to come back and testify multiple times, if necessary. In Aruba, the police are forced to choose b/t interviewing a witness informally outside police premises (at the witness’ discretion), and formally ‘arresting’ a person and taking the person into custody for several days at a time. The truth-generating engine of the grand jury, were it available in Aruba, might be able to extract the truth from Gottenbos.