RSSNatalee Holloway; Afternoon Update
(AP) Aruba May Prosecute in Missing Teen case
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba’s attorney general said Thursday she could prosecute a case in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway even if the Alabama teenager’s body is not found.
Caren Janssen also said investigators have found no evidence to suggest that the 18-year-old Holloway, who disappeared May 30, was dead.
“There are no traces or facts to come to the conclusion that Natalee is no longer alive,” Attorney General Caren Janssen told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.
So I guess maybe Paul Van der Sloot’s legal advice may not be 100% full proof? Seems like Prosecutor Caren Janssen may have other ideas.
“But that doesn’t mean we can’t prosecute without a body. It’s difficult but not impossible.”
Aruban officials have said previously a murder conviction is possible without a body, but the case requires strong evidence such as a confession, reliable statements and forensic evidence of wrongdoing.
>>>Aruba Today; June 29, 2005
“Donations For Search Team Still Needed”
“Aruban Leader Asks Dutch Marines For Help”
>>>Aruba Today; June 28, 2005
“Aruba Red Cross Joins Hands with EquuSearch”
>>>‘Scarborough Country’ transcripts for Wednesday June 29
Guest: Jack Tyson, Bethany Hamilton, Marcia Twitty, Claudia DiFolco, Sharon Waxman, Linda Allison, Pat Brown, Mary Fulginiti, Caren Janssen
>>> Greta Van Susteren transcripts, June 29
Interview with Charles Croes, Paul van der Sloot’s Changing Story
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Comments
387 Responses to “Natalee Holloway; Afternoon Update”
Well, Caren (or Karin) Janssen can state that prosecution without a body is possible, but without any collaborating evidence it will not be possible.
Just my 2c
Yes, I agree…..
If there is no body, no blood, no witness, no confession.
Who is to say where NH is.
What if they convicet someone and then, she shows up?
chris?
# TNGirl Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 5:46 pm
Yes, I agree…..
If there is no body, no blood, no witness, no confession.
Who is to say where NH is.
What if they convicet someone and then, she shows up?
People will be shamed then. duefully right also.
Exactly
She’s not gonna “show up” because she didn’t leave by her own volition. Please, people, it’s simple logic. The girl was considered a very responsible, kind, loving person. Even if she hated her parents (and there’s no evidence pointing to that) at the very least, seeing this media circus swirling around her and “innocent” people put in jail for her, she’d manage to get the word out from afar that leaving had been her decision. Only a truly callous, hateful individual would allow all of this to go on — and she isn’t that type, by a long shot.
Hi there you, Dana
this what you call “mysteriousness of century”
Hi everyone. Where is checkme, Ally, MomFromMo, and Country Moon?
Centure Fox? mysterious of century? Elucidate please cutie!
hubba hubba!
too cute and too 2 funny.
Dana, do you have a thing going with that nutjob Chris in Halways?
Dana are you overweight like Chris’s wife ,,,,that’s why you like him?
Did ya’ll see the Current Affair, where the lady said they are going to naming a “Person of Interest” who is an American and who was on the beach when JVDS and NH were?
They were saying JVDS didn’t have enough time and this other person may have, maybe a jealous classmate or ex boyfriend?
Is CURRENT AFFAIR a worthy show? It seems like they’re grasping at straws now
whether I like Chris or not is none of your beeswax ok?
kewl with that?
I me mine!
When does “current affair” come on … is it on FOX … what time .. and do they have a website ??
Kristy
I watch Current Affair at 10 pm cst. But I would like someone else to view some photos for me and see if this person looks like Natalee?
I typed in 2005 Soul Music Festival Pictures, the fouth item down said party of the week, I clicked on pictures , then party of the week, At top of page it said Loco Ioco Party , 9th row down , the picture on the right. There is a guy in black shirt with a blonde on his right . My question Is that Natalee?
http://www.currentaffairs.com. It comes on @6:30pm eastern time on Fox Five.
Jerry,
What is the link to the picture, or what search engine are you using?
I use Yahoo!
Kiko ya Kiko.com is what is plastered all over the pages. She is wearing a white top!
found it, it might be her, hard to tell
she combs her hair the same way that is what I noticed.
jerry; I looked at the photos …It’s not natalee
I get a feeling that the NH family is happy only if PaulVDS is arrested.
I feel they are not looking at evidence but going via emotion
EVERYONE … PLEASE START THINKING ABOUT MIGRATING OVER TO THE DISCUSSION FORUMS AND REGISTER.
YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT OCCUR HERE WHEN TRAFFIC IS HIGH
YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE COMMENT FIELD SHUT OFF WHEN TRAFFIC IS HIGH
EVENTUALLY WE ARE GOING TO TAKE DOWN THE COMMENT AREA. THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS WAS INTENDED TO BE AND THE “FORUM” IS A MUCH EASIER PLACE TO COMMUNICATE AND RESPOND TO SPECIFIC COMMENTS.
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO DO THIS, WE ARE WINDING DOWN THE COMMENTS IN THIS FORMAT. THERE ARE MODERATORS IN THE DISCUSSION FORUM TO HELP YOU.
THANKS
Ok just had a thought and ran upon these pictures thought it might bring something up?
Tom, no one seems to like that way of posting. I find it confusing
Its more open here. IN the forums … they flame you for your thoughts. IMO.
Jerry,
not her
Guys,
Scared S …
We have almost 2000 registered users that could prove you wrong.
We have to make certain changes otherwise many of you will be locked out and prevented from posting as what happens when we must turn the comment field off.
We all must learn new things.
There are moderators there to help.
Ok, Red, I’ll try!
Thanks for the confirmation I needed some other opinions. Sorry, After looking through these photos I noticed there is whole punch of kids with this NY caps and this gangster type dress and signing crap. What a bunch of BS
Equu search and the Dutch marines searched near a dam – Dutch marines will only assist in searching when it is on specific tips to aid the investigation.
scaredshitless-
Were you the one that asked if I was American in the other forum?
Yes. I couldn’t be more American. I love America, and I love Americans. However, that does not mean that I am happy about the way our current administration has limited its interaction with the media.
police are optimistic for a resolution to the case. No further comment given
jORAN (PRONOUNCED URINE) PORKED NATALIE AND LEFT HER THERE SHE PROBABLY WENT OUT FOR A SWIM AND DROWNED…HOW ELSE CAN YOU EXPLAIN NO EVIDENCE …JORAN ONLY HAD 45 MINUTES TO GET RID OF HER AND HE DIDNT HAVE A CAR, SHOVEL OR ANY UTENSILS
Urine is guilty
equu search received a commendation by the govt for their nobel efforts in helping with the NH search
i mean noble – typo
Yoran … not urine. The J has a “y” sound. wow.
The last picture I saw of Urine he looked happy and smiling . The interigation must be brutal. He was going to meet his dad today I think that is what they said!
will be back later!
Anna? Mono?  ¿Dà ³nde estan? Le busquà © ambos, pero no puedo encontrarle.
Kristy – we call him URINE on purpose! I know in Dutch the “J” is “Y”….his name is URINE on this forum!
While I was trying to tactfully type a rather long post on the last thread we were on on some things that have bothered me, or peaked my interest in this case, everybody left. I don’t think I can rewrite it, but if any of you can take a peek and respond to the qestions raised, I’d appreciate it.
I dont like the new forum this is much better!
I tried the forum Red/Tom told us about…don’t like it. Can’t “follow” it; it’s too confusing.
Ok about his nickname … haha … I prefer Joran though.
Im watching tv now . supose Ill be back after Greta 11ish …
Thats when it gets good on here anyhow.
And about the other forum, I agree, either you get flamed, bashed or banned.
later!
Sounds like a lot of double talk in Aruba right now. Wheather you can prosecute or not prosecute if you have a body or not. The only way would be it they talk and say what they did to Natalee or if they found a body. These boys will be going home I do believe? I only wish the Holloways or Twittys would contact Closure4U investigations I think they could help.
REcently there has been a lot of speculation about what happened. Hmmmm…..
Do we have to leave? I agree with scaredshitless…the discussion here is completely different (and IMO better) than that on the discussion forums. The trolls are obnoxious, but most of us know how to ignore them, and that lack of attention = bye bye troll.
Here you go, Maya99:
On Greta last night, she interviewed a cell phone purveyor from Aruba who was one of the first people the Holloways wanted to talk with upon arriving. It seems like they wanted information regarding calls made from a rental cell phone from his company.
This got me thinking abot information that was coming out early in the disappearance, and if I have any of this wrong, if these were rumors were disproved, please someone tell me. One of the problems I have understanding a lot of this is that early information regarding the teens on the trip, the Holloways and Natalee, herself, isn’t discussed because it might jeopardize the investigation, while rampant speculation and accusations sre directed to others. My hope is that Natalee is found unharmed and returned to her family, and none of this is a slam toward her or them, I just want to know the full truth wherever it leads. That said:
Do any of you remember early on that a call was placed to Beth saying she was kidnapped (could this have something to do with the Aruban cell phone renter?).
Wasn’t there an initial poster with a message asking Natalie to call home and listing Beth’s phone number?
Does anyone know if there is really a closed FBI file regarding Natalee running away oe being missing in Costa Rica?
Again, this is not to dis Natalee or her family. I’m just trying to eliminate or revisit earlier reports that came to mind after last night’s interview.
You said it, New Girl. Dana, how is your lover, Chris doing?
Wootang…
You almost got it, but if she did go in for a swim after the incident then the body or parts of it would have washed back up somewhere. You are correct that JVDS left her on the beach, but someone else probably abducted her. She may very well still be alive and imprisoned on the island.
Blackspeare: then the cops should GO INTO EVERY DWELLING TO CHECK! The island ain’t that big! DUH!
Honestly, I am very grateful for this site and its wonderful hosts. But I hope you will continue this section of the site. Part of freedom of speech, and no-holds-barred discussion of serious issues, is ugly speech.
The ugly speech reflects badly only on the authors. Not the hosts.
Instead of removing this area of free expression, I wish you would allow free discourse here for those who prefer it, and direct the people who are distracted by trolls to the moderated board.
Either way, I appreciate your site and its hospitality. Trolls notwithstanding, your site draws quite a collection of intelligent, caring, and open-minded people.
if you just ignore the trolls they get mad & go away. The trouble is, too many people answer them back
They should give Joran a taste of his own medicine, pump him full of sodium P, or whatever elso that works better, maybe 4 or 5 hits of X, and give him NO sleep or food until he cracks….. Sounds harsh, but its not as bad as being raped, murdered, and feed to SHARKS…
minimum chop his pecker and balls off!
Jim and Jerry: you sound like MY kind of drinkin’ buddies!
da plane da plane
New Girl: I’m here. I was looking through some “party” pics from G2G 5 that was held on May 27, 05. Three pics are completely missing from the order of things, which is weird. Also, did you notice at those rave sites that it’s often the same people, esp. the same DJ’s and radio station crews?
The midget on FANTASY ISLAND! Wow, Dana, that was such insight! Maybe you should Yell with Chris in his fanciful hallways
That was dana’s version of cryptic messages a la Shango: Who said ‘da plane?’ Tattoo on Fantasy Island. He also killed himself. I guess Dana’s version of “Aruba Clue” consists of strictly 70′s bad tv references?
I registered for the Discussion forum, because I thought this was going to be closing right away. If they do close this section down, we should pick a place over there to continue this discussion. How about the “Breaking the Code” section? Or maybe they could start a new section for people who have been talking here. I never even realized the Discussion forum existed.
Yes, Sooz….good idea
Heard that Croes got the boot off the Tatto today?
you are not going to find the body washed up b/c the dj and jvd or pvd dumped the body in the ocean. the current takes the body away from the island and the evidence is eaten…i don’t want to be mean but it make sense…more than the drug lord/lorenzo/ theory running around. the dj had the boat…he is the one who marched into the police station to back up the brothers and jvd’s lie…but it was exposed!
Okay, if this closes — we should designate someone to start a thread in the forum. Something like “SM Front Pagers” at the Breaking the Code section. I nominate Sooz.
And we should go there and test post, maybe?
Sounds like a good plan!
LOL AnnaMaria. Welp, I see there’s now a topic called “Shango” and no one has posted there yet. So I say let’s take over that one.
Anna_maria:
She’s not gonna “show up” because she didn’t leave by her own volition. >>>
—How do you know that?
Please, people, it’s simple logic. The girl was considered a very responsible, kind, loving person.>>>
—Logic doesn’t apply in this case, or when it’s about cold feet
Even if she hated her parents (and there’s no evidence pointing to that) at the very least, seeing this media circus swirling around her and “innocent” people put in jail for her, she’d manage to get the word out from afar that leaving had been her decision. Only a truly callous, hateful individual would allow all of this to go on — and she isn’t that type, by a long shot. >>>
—WE don’t know that for sure. Every mother or perant praises her kid.
Maybe she is a place where she can’r see or she doesn’t care.
Your assumtions have no logic to me
Jim G-Austin, TX,
BINGO
Mhamden – your theory sounds the most logical
traveller – you are OBVIOUSLY not a parent. I know for a FACT that Natalee is NOT a runaway because I would know for a fact my child would never run away either.
Because Natalee hasn’t been found yet it could be something like that: she died, maybe Joran killed her or she died because other causes, and he had to get rid of the body and then he asked his father for help and they shipped the body to a different island or just dumped in the water farther from Aruba.
I don’t understand why some people lack so much logic and don’t think about the possibility of the body been shipped out of Aruba.
traveller – you are OBVIOUSLY not a parent. I know for a FACT that Natalee is NOT a runaway because I would know for a fact my child would never run away either>>>
Just think about Run-away-bride case. Nobody would have thought about that.
And she was older than Natalee
does anyone know who the guy was with the dj yesterday and the day before and was on his way to the airport? seems supicious brothers’ mom wouldn’t let texans on her property. maybe she knows something and she should be arrested to see what she knows. why didn’t police search the brothers house as they did jorans.
why didn’t police search the brothers house as they did jorans>>
—Perhaps because the police is trying to delay everything, cover up and get rid of the past evidences or future ones
another question, how sick would it be to do whatever with a girl drugged or not and go brag about it and know that you killed her. doesn’t make sense to me unless this kid thinks he has performed the perfect crime of which there is no such thing–even serial killers leave some evidence. i think joran knows more than he is telling but so do the kids in alabama. they all need to talk to find this girl whereever she is.
Traveler – you can’t compare that NUT runaway bride who was a kooky shoplifter to Natalee. I”M SORRY, YOU ARE WRONG!
And Sandy M – I agree….the Kalpoe mom sounds like she is covering up and the cops should FORCE her to let the Texans do a search
It’s simple, traveller. Only a complete sociopath would see what was going on, three innocent boys locked up who just gave a girl a ride to her hotel, friends and family distraught — and they would get in touch with a friend or family member, under anonymity, and let SOMEONE know they were unharmed and those kids should immediately be set free. I don’t know Natalee, but from what those who do know her have said here and elsewhere, she’s not that type of person. Cold feet or otherwise.
Where is everyone else – like Ally, Checkme, CRS, MomfromMO, CountryMoon, etc.?
Annamaria – Traveler is grasping at straws…don’t quit you day job and become a detective, Traveler – you’ll go bankrupt
does anyone know if any phychics have been used?
scared — I know Shango was cryptic, but you don’t suppose by Lions, he really meant…Lions club? Boy, is that a small island. Just look at the roster:
http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm
psychics? i’m not sure.
Annamaria – could be. I don’t know what happened to shango.
Traveler is grasping at straws…don’t quit you day job and become a detective, Traveler – you’ll go bankrupt >>>
What’s your problem scaredshitless?
Beacause you have no logic, that doesn’t mean you have to “hit” people like that.
I am sure I won’t go broke if I use my logic, whic I do every second. You seem that you don’t have any to use. You’ve been broke for all your life.
It’s just an opionion and it doesn’t matter if you agree with or not.
scared – i think mom, ally and check all come on later in the evening. The USA people watch Greta, etc. then arrive, I think.
Shango..come in Shango
Dirty Hand is the polis chief….when he leaves, will this case be solved?
Greta is not on until 10 pm EST….she has an interview tonight with the polis chief..but will not ask him if he is DirtyHand
Jeezzz, thanks Tom for the new servers, makes a big difference, maybe they can install one here in the aruban justice department so that their efficiency can be improved a little… Joking Karin, just keep at it, keep reading the Monkeys and follow up on them, maybe you will get the break you guys and dolls deserve.
Hi everybody, let me read the blog and see what inspiring words we have her tonite…
Does Mary still hear the music in the Maze?
I believe someone asked this question twice ..
the guy in the black honda civic with Steve Croes and the guy present during his interview at his house that had his hand on his shoulder … was indeed his dad. he had to take him to the airport – I believe his father lives in Curacao.
Is Lorenzo a lion ….and are the raves at his other house?
has Amy Bradley been to this same house?
After reading the transcript concerning the conversation between Greta & Charles Croes…..I have a question:
1. It stated that Beth & Charles listened several times to the phone call that they suspect was made by a cell phone belonging to his company. This call must have been recorded on someone’s answering machine or cell phone back in the states since they said they hung up with this person after listening to the call.
Wouldn’t there be records showing all phone calls placed to the U.S. from Aruba with either a cell phone co. or a regular phone co. (They would have to know who made the call) I am sure they do….that’s why Beth is so sure that the VDS’s and/or the Kalpoe’s are involved.
What is the time diff between NY and Aruba?
shelly…that is indeed a strange point.
same time frame
Oxygenated Lady there is no time difference. Look here:
http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_AW.aspx
thanx. I think that we won’t hear from Shango until after Greta.
I am not sure if Shango has a tv….
Oxy…do you scuba dive?
This is something else that I found strange in this transcript:
PVDS told the police that he did not know where his son was on the morning of May 31st. Since Joran lives in another building on the property……how would he have known or not known if Joran was there or not if he had not checked to see?
not lately, swiming with the sharks is getting dangerous around here!
shelly….isn’t it also strange that when Beth showed up at his house, he said, without hesitation, that Joran was not home…without calling his apartment to see?
What is a kid that age doing with his own apartment, anyhow?
whatever he wanted to apparently….
Good night, Scared, Kristy, Jerry, Dana and everyone else. Where are Subdude and Ally?
Shelly, What was the cntent of the phone call they listened to, Do you Know?
Checkme, Hi there to you too. Read your messages.
Even if Shango had a tv ….. Aruba does NOT get FOX.
very good , “I hear Shango Says”
true Kristy true
Kristy
But all the interviews can be seen at gretawire.com. We don’t have Fox here either, but at that site they have the videos and Greta’s blog.
Night Lucy.
Dutch people are different. They live different, they have different ideas about everything. I dont know much about it, but I can accept it.
Ask on here, there are a few dutch people, they can explain better than I.
But I think nothing of him having his own apt.
Kristy…do you believe Shango is someone who wants to help Natalee but can’t for fear of his/her own life?
Lucy….they never said what the content of the call was about…only that they listened to it several times
Kristy – that’s because the Dutch are godless hedonists who let their brats do, smoke and screw whatever/whenever/whoever they want.
Checkme
Are you ignoring me????? Just joking.
I hear
I think he wants to help. Just like most of us, even if we have different points of view. But I think Shango loves the attention and all this crazyness about all of us trying to decipher his vooddooan words of knowledge has forced him to go on an ego trip.
Since they listened to this phone call sometime after 11:30p.m. on May 30th & before 2:30a.m. on May 31…..I am thinking that this call was not made to the Twitty’s house since they were there in Aruba. This person was still in the states. It had to be made to someone else in the family or to one of Natlaee’s friends maybe.
What is the time diffrence between Alabama & Aruba?
I think some of it is Wika
Shelly
What is the theory on this phone call recording?? That perhaps it was from Natalee?
I do not feel as if the dutch are people whom let their children do as they please. I will have to disagree with you there. America is not perfect, be careful when judging.
In reference to Shango … Im not to sure. Sometimes I feel like Shango is a elder Arwak, but he states that he does not walk with the arwaks. At least that is what I recall, correct me if I am wrong.
I think he has some informers (orixas) and He may be just knowledable. I really dont know. But he is opening our minds .. or at least he should be.
Be online after Greta.
here come the F B I….with a vengence! getterdone
Kristy
I don’t think Shango is Arubian, he sounds more like a Cuban inmigrant. The name.
I never said America was perfect. I said the Dutch are too liberal for my taste when it comes to morality. They even have euthanasia for heavens sake! Get real Kristy! Read up on that country.
Alabama Senator Shelby demands that the FBI be allowed to take an active part in the investigation!
Checks
So you are really ignoring me and everyone else also. Or did you go to another thread to catch up??????
Shelly
What is the theory on this phone call recording?? That perhaps it was from Natalee?
Lucy….that is what I am trying to figure out. If it was from Natalee wouldn’t she have called her mother? Not unless the Twitty’s had someone staying at their house after they left for Aruba and they were playing back the message for her and Charles Croes.
The PM has told the Senator that they will work with the FBI fully and that the FBI can send as many agents as they want.
Shelly, The time in Alabama is 1 hr earlier than ny.
shelly…you are right, Shango said he doesn’t walk with Arawaks.
Mi Lucy, just got back online…
Shelly
The publication of the poster is what perhaps makes me think initially Ms. Twitty thought she had voluntarily taken off, and who else would leave a message that would make you want to hear it over and over again?
what phone call???
I still want to know why Shango said there would be 46 sacrifices. Are these girls who are also stuck in the Maze?
The news said Beth Twitty was in Arkansas on a mini-vacation during the time Natalee was in Aruba
If someone else called besides Natalee….it would appear that she would have had to have given this person the number to call. I don’t think she had a purse with her at Carlos n Charlies that they could have went through and found telephone numbers….besides I would not think she would need to write down her on phone number from home.
Checks
So you are not ignoring us after all. I think little by little we are going to loose most of the posters. Greta is on everywhere except here and there.
ALLY, LOOK WHO IS HERE. YOUR MENTOR, PLEASE COME OUT, We are waiting for you!!!!
Shelly
Remember. She only took her license to C N’ C.
girls don’t usually go anywhere without their cell phone do they????
I Hear
I think it was Subdude that clarified that it refered to the 46th evil spirit, because it coincided with the name of the evil spirit given by Shango. By the way, has he been here today? He is having another flowery toga made before his next appearance.
a lot of girls don’t take extra baggage to bars….it becomes a pain if you want to dancea nd drink
That’s right Lucy….so maybe it was Natalee that called but someone else made her do it and told her what she had to say. (This person and/or persons might have told her to say something like Mom, I have decided to stay in Aruba or I am going to travel somewhere else and Beth knew this was completely out of character for Natalee so she knew something was wrong.
Good point…the phonebooks on the kid’s cells are loaded with numbers!
not that I have seen. I have been a silent observer for a while.
Not take a cell phone out with you? Most teen girls would NEVER do that
but cell phones fit in tiny places or hook to belts or pockets. girls consider their cell phone a life line.
I’m depressed so I’m logging off till later
Good, it looks as though the PM of Aruba is going to certify the FBI to come back and get hands on with all that is going on. It is about time.
Scared……Why would she have needed to take a cell phone with her…..she was there with her friends at the bar…..who was she going to call…..it has already been stated that she only took her drivers license with her.
Shelly
Did you read Greta’s blog??? The part about reaching a dead end and being at a point that alternatives would have to be reevaluated? Not only the real investigation, but ours has also reached a dead end. We keep going around and around, thus the desperate need for and attachment on Shango.
Has anyone seen a resume for PVS?
Yes Lucy….I have read that….it is all so frustrating….when will it ever end?
Lucy, I think more people are going back to the drawing board. They should. What could it be that is keeping the authorities holding on to Joran and Kalpoes?
Hi everybody! Sorry I didn’t respond to folks yet – I had to run out. I am really excited that we can still post here (for now).
Hey everyone. Did you hear the latest that Checkme may be an impostor. He really is HARRY HOUDINI. Comes and disappears.
Checks
So you are not HOUDINI after all. Sorry.
it’s hard to talk on a cell phone at a club with loud music.
You think it’s frustrating for us? How do you think those in this are feeling. This is how corruption starts… “just for this case, let’s circumvent the system and deal with it ‘our’ way”. The smaller the communities the tougher it becomes to maintain some sort of system.
There is a new topic “Media Contact” in the Theories forum posted by resjudikitty.
Last night Shango suggested that the key to this case is shining the light on Polis Chief Vad der Stratten’s reason for resignation as of July 15, 2005. He wanted media attention focused on this line of inquiry.
Today, June 30, 2005, I called and spoke to reps of Fox News, MSNBC and NBC. Fox was the most cooperative.
I gave each of them the web address for this site and explained in general terms what I though was going on, especially as it relates to Shango’s postings.
I specifically told them to peruse the sight for Shango’s postings and suggested that some questions start being asked.
When I get to the office tomorrow afternoon, I will post the telephone numbers for these news orgs so that anyone wishing to draw more attention here can do so.
Please contact the media to start getting some attention to this site and get the tough questions asked.
Checkme
I think they are going to let go Satish, but the’ll keep Deepak and Joran at least for another week, or is it a month this time around??
Shango:
Where are you?
Oooh…Ruben the Raver on Greta right now.
Oh might SUBDUDE, just dropping in on us without saying hi. I’ve been asking for you. Let me read your message now.
This whole ordeal is a horrible tragedy. No one knows but God what really happened, or
who is to blame. We can only speculate. I don’t think the young boys killed Natalee, but I think an accidental death may have occured, and they did not seek help or go to authorities perhaps due to sexual behaviorr prior to the accident. I believe Aruba is doing all they can, and should not be blamned. Look at the US cases never solved, OJ Simpson, Jon Benet, etc… Millions go to Mexico every week, many are missing, and the Mexican government does not cooperate at all. All we can do is pray for all involved, especially Natalee’s family and hope for her return somehow.
Hi, GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subdude
Shango is at the seamstress he is having a new toga made before his next appearance.
I do not think they are going to let any of the three go. Rueben and Greta are talking about Condaleeza Rice and Robert Mueller are putting the heat on. The PM is going to let the FBI in. Trapenberg is upset? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Subdude is a late nighter. Comes on when he can. All, listen to Tom and Red. It would be disheartening if now one would be able to blog. They are doing their best to inform us why to register. Please respect.
HI ALLYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Oxygenated Lady Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 10:17 pm
Has anyone seen a resume for PVS?
Lady….this is the closest I have seen to a resume….gives history on PVS:
http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/extra/pvds.htm
Sorry, Lucy, my manners are bad when I’m tired. I was blogging ’til 3:30 a.m. Shango was hot.
We really need to get on the media to focus some attention on this matter. Resjudikitty (I know her) and I have started the process. I expect some contact from FoxNews tomorrow or the next night after they have reviewed this site and Shango’s postings.
Hello all
Shango will not reveal his/her identity…I am sure he/she fears for his/her own life if the identity is revealed. I think the FBI should give Shango an opportunity to come to US if he/she wants to “get” away from the corruption.
Lucy—tell me about this phone call, I dont know what u are all are referring to?
Subdude—hello, I am gald u came on earlier tonight
checkme—please hang out for a little bit——–how are u; I have missed u…and I hate when u leave so soon
Lucy—u are such a sweetheart
Subdude, I sent Greta cut&pastes of some of this stuff, myself, the other day. I was even willing to put for the Lions theory to her, since someone at the psychics forum stated that he heard “some businessmen/influential people were keeping her at a club, like the *Mason’s Club.* Who cares if Greta thinks I’m a taco short of a fiesta plate. No theory is too out there if it might actually help.
Hi Ally!
Checkme
Where are you?
Apparently Condaleeza Rice and Robert Mueller have gotten involved and Trapenberg is upset about this. He can say that they won’t let the FBI in, but the PM has already said they can. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
it’s 60 days at KIA next.
I think all the people who post here, and read, are wonderful to care and keep up. Being an American mother, I can understand how Natalees mother will not give up. She will never give up. She, like Amy Bradleys mother, will pray, search, and spare no expenses, making it her quest for the rest of her life. She will
do this because she is now living for the purpose of seeing the guilty punished. I was feeling sorry for the family, but now I see that those who are responsible for Natalees disapearance are the ones who will need the pity. Now they will be on the run for the rest of their lives. She will never stop searching for them, she will someday find them, she will get the answers. You can count on it. Shes an American mother.
Checkme
So what is your feeling about what will happen?????
Please email Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State, US requesting assistance in Natalee Holloway investigation to Aruba
http://dosref.lib.uic.edu/ask_form_cat/ask_form_secretary.html
Posted by: lvthesouth | June 30, 2005 10:18 PM
Anna…well said…I agree with you completely.
Dude, morning…
Ally, so good to hear you. We should try and talk a little earlier. Did you check your mail today?
Hi, annamaria!!!! checkme—why do u ignore me…?
—Lucy, i am feeling a pang of rejection
I agree Anna….I have a 24 year old daughter and I would go to hell and back to find her if something like this happened.
Hi Anna, hi checkme, and subdude, and Ally, and Lucy and Elaine!
Subdude, you are wonderful for contacting the media. You truly are.
Are we really slow tonight or is it me???
Both Shango and gagirl mentioned the next festival, and maybe the cowboys going to the festival, talking to the Arawaks….and Simian talked of St. John….is this the event?
JUNE 24 — DERA GAI “ST. JOHN’S DAY”
Special festive song and bright yellow and red costumes, and traditional dances surround the annual “Dera Gai” (the burying of the rooster) festival. It is celebrated on the Feast of St. John the Baptist to celebrate and give thanks for a successful harvest. This celebration dates back to 1862. Today the rooster has been replaced by a calabas (gourd) but folk dances are still an intrinsic part of the celebrations. Festival activities are held at various community centers.
AnnaMaria be down to get ya’ in a taxi, honey:)
Glad to hear it. I am going to go look in the discussion fora for Shango. Eventually, I think we will all end up over there. It’s a little difficult at first, but the group just needs to agree on a forum and topic and meet there. Then it works pretty much the same way with postings.
I’ll be bahk:)
Hey Ally, Lucy, Lil Ricky, Checkme, Elaine, Chimes, and everyone else
new girl
How’s your reasearch going?
No, i didn’t get my mail…to where did u send this checkme?
Shelly, Thanks, I’ll check it out.
I think they will let all go beginning next week. No evidence, only suspicions. Last minute kneejerks of prosecution are showing but I have no hope on this trail.
Subdude
By the way Li’l Ricky wants you to buy him a pair of maracas.
AnnaMaria, what happened to our new friend Mono? Did you find a discussion thread? I tried to look there, but there are so many strangers – any not much Spanish..
Ally, to the address you poseted last Saturday
Hello Sub, you’ve stepped up to the plate. Wishing you the best with response. I have been recently contacted by a poster about something that may bring more insight. It may or may not work out, but any step towards concrete insights or people who will take a gander at this site is well worth it.
What Shangoo forum??? Where??? This is so funny, I don’t believe it. Have we created a monster?
Hi new girl, you have been active!
Greta’s time line on in 1 min.
I still think the phone call made to the U.S. could have been made using the cell phone belonging to JVDS or one of the Kalpoe’s…..and that’s one of the reasons they are still able to hold them…..There had to be records of where this phone call came from in Aruba…..phone co’s & cell phone co’s have records of all of this.
Checkme
Ally, I just sent you a message to that same address and you got it …
hmmm—my email address is alina626@AOL.COM–i got lucy’s but not yours…do u have the right one?
Lucy, I exhausted all of my ideas (or “found information”) at 4:03 am today. I wanted to continue looking today, but our network was completely down today at work and nothing at all could be done.
Is Elaine still here? You posted that Lorenzo has an archived “tickle” site. Can you find it? Can any of y’all find it?
But, JvdS has the whole world against him, should he?
In my mind, it would be OK if the time would be used to ACTIVELY investigate other scenarios. At this point, with Chavez declaring (oil) war to the US we are in for a ride that may turn much uglier than this case. The allies better get their ducks in a row before true guerilla warfare starts.
checkme—i didnt get it—I would remember if I did, check
Checkme
Check your in box. Maybe it came back or something.
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think of the Shango forum?????
Hi Checkme! I was up late the last 2 nights trying to figure things out. My contact lenses are drying up and hurting me, and my coworkers are starting to make fun of my bloodshot eyes!
What, if anything, can I do to help keep the media involved or bolster the theories of others who have contacted the media?
I think it is very unfortunate, but I concede that this case will go unsolved..if you notice, everyone is much more arrogant (suspects) and less cooperative..They have been coached and know that Natalee will never re-appear….check, still didn’t get it
It is only a matter of time before the evidence is found. Natalee is still waiting to be found. The dutch marines, maybe FBI assistance for real this time. The rock that shadows or rocky shadows have a story. THe sweaty smell of dirty sweat will tell a tale. There is dna in sweat and left behind, it can show up.
A botton, a bow or a clip will tell them something. There are so many lies, spinning more lies. A bell or chime. Yellow shine. unclear voices.
Hiya Newgirl -nothing from Mono. Silencio.
Chimes – are you going to share the link/info or just with subdude? Not to be nosy. Just have to give up the pc at 11 tonight and don’t want to miss info if it’s coming.
Subdude – a few more media contacts and Greta’s next story will be all about these bloggy people now roomin’ in padded cells. : )
Ally, I made a mistake, try again…
Lucy: He really should be in bed, by now, Honey:)
The discussion forum is linked to the next thread on this site.
Not much going on of substance over there.
Absolut prepared a pretty good timeline there, Chimes. Has some interesting details that I was not aware of.
No word from Shango, ey? Greta and Polis Chief — did she ask any tough questions like reason for his resignation, is he being pressured? Scapegoated? Ever been accused of links to the drug trade?
hey all …just a thought on the phone call that has been listened to repeatedly. What if it wasn’t someone talking but the call was made and all you could hear was a struggle or and event taking place , maybe voices could be heard in the background etc. Could it be someone wanted BH just to hear what might be something to make her wonder what was happening or a plea from Natalie for help in background
kewl
That could be why she thought she was kidnapped
Subdude
Are you trying to make a Greta Shango connection??????
hope: a little info on the cell call, please.
Dana – do you miss CHRIS or what?
Checkme
Sorry …
Greta’s interview with the Police Chief was disappointing, mainly because he only would only talk about one thing – the searches.
vStraten is simply going to retire. He is extending his duty to stay on this case, if so requested. A puppet of the current political leadership will be put into place quickly. His replacement has a law degree. Could help.
Grtea interviewd the Kalpoes stepfather, and my gut instict is that he doesn’t know anything. checkme, please try to e-mail me again..I would love to maintain more contact with you…All others, goodnight, sleep well. May the angels look over u
Lucy–you are a true amiga
checkme-I adore u, u are in my thoughts…always
subdude–c-ya tomorrow, chico
Lucy: Yes. My cohort in this effort, Resjudikitty, who was on the discussion forum earlier, emailed her today.
AnnaMaria emailed her some pieces of posts, I believe about Polis Chief/Shango, a day or two ago.
Right, AnnaMaria?
You mean the PM? When is he stepping down?
Greta is known for putting heat on ppl – why not the heat on the police chief?
Subdude all I know is that when Greta invterviewed Charles Croes there was mention of a phone call made that one of the men with BH wanted to find out some info about. That they wanted to find out if it was one of the phones of the company CC works at. It was mentioned that they had listened to the call several times but they CC didnt elaborate about what the guy with BH said the call was about. I had read a couple posts above about it also
Subdude ..Charles Croes was at the vds house the first nigth they got on the island he was the one that found out where they lived
Lucy I thought it was the police chief retiring not the PM
Elaine: Have you looked at any of the virtual tour views of Aruba @ about.com – esp. the conchi pool/natural pool? Here’s the link for all of them – conchi pool is halfway down site:
http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/panoramic/
this is confusing to say the least.
Subdude, Here is the post I made earlier concerning the cell phone call that we have been discussing:
Shelly Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 9:25 pm
After reading the transcript concerning the conversation between Greta & Charles Croes…..I have a question:
1. It stated that Beth & Charles listened several times to the phone call that they suspect was made by a cell phone belonging to his company. This call must have been recorded on someone’s answering machine or cell phone back in the states since they said they hung up with this person after listening to the call.
Wouldn’t there be records showing all phone calls placed to the U.S. from Aruba with either a cell phone co. or a regular phone co. (They would have to know who made the call) I am sure they do….that’s why Beth is so sure that the VDS’s and/or the Kalpoe’s are involved.
Lucy… don’t be.
Did anybody pick up Chavez’ message to the States? About his “Oil-federation” where he want to give oil for a very low proice to poor caribbean countries, directly undermining US dominance in the area?
No, I am just wondering when his term will be completed.
Who is Charles Croes? I only know of a Marianne and a Steve
I still haven’t received it check…please try again—and if it still is not rectified, come find me tomorrow—
Newgirl–i am sorry, I just read your post, hello, to u , but I must go…i am tired (demonstrated by my typo’s…lol)..I can’t keep my eyes open…
goodnight to Ally
Charles Croes is the cell phone company owner that Greta interviewed lastnight
Hope: It is the Polis Chief retiring unless asked to stay on, per Checkme.
Checkme: Who asks Chief to stay on? Prime Minister? Minister of Justice?
Ally, try again…
Yes, subdude, that’s what I sent Greta. Did I mention that, or are you a hacker? ; )
thanks, Hopefloats
scaredshitless Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 10:58 pm
Who is Charles Croes? I only know of a Marianne and a Steve
Read this transcript:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html
actually the word retire wasn’t correct ..they said his contract was up and it was time for him to leave..not sure how that works
No, AnnaMaria, you mentioned it ;}
np scared anytime
Dude, if they ask him. But since he is of the wrong color and was an appointee of the previous (different) party he is gone. With elections coming soon, they want their guys in asap.
nighters Ally
but min of justice would have to ask.
Chavez has been doing this with the Dominican Republic for quite sometime, but Mexico does too. We get cheap price, but really cheap grade gasoline, especially from Venezuela. The deal was negotiated tin Cuba. But, our economy is totally dependent on American resources. Just Dominican inmigrants in the US, both legal and illegal, remit over US$4.0 Billion every year. So our major export is labor.
I am becoming sadly resigned to the possibility that the organized crime elements on the island are so politically significant and so entrenched in the island economy that this disappearance will not be solved unless the Texans can find her.
I am sad and I am frustrated. I am afraid that the “sacrifice” mentioned by Shango may mean nothing more than the expiration of the work visas of the Van der Sloots. They will head back to the Netherlands and Aruba will be left to struggle.
I believe that Shango was telling “island secrets” about tensions between the “Arawaks” and the “Babylonians.”
Who will be hurt if Americans boycott Aruba because of the ineptitude of the investigators? Arubans. Who is dependent upon tourism to pay rent? Arubans.
Who is in control of the local newspaper, and the police department, and the banks, and the government, and the chief suspect? Who profits most from the island involvement in organized crime? The Dutch. And maybe some ‘unsavory others.’
Who are the possible candidates for next time. What is the right color?
Hope: Now that’s a different animal. He is not being asked back. I think he’s being offered up as the reason the investigation hasn’t gone well, and per Shango, Aruban govt and lions hope the public’s concern about the course of investigation will be relieved.
Per Shango, its a tactic to keep the investigation diverted away from the drug/prostitution cartel in which Polis Chief, Prime Minister, VDSs and Kalpoes are complicit.
Hard to confirm Shango, but so far nothing to contradict him, either.
Polis Chief not asked back = Bullsh*t
Hope you are absolutely correct. But on TV he was mentioning his pension… So I guess his contrac t was up to his pension age. But I will double check this tomorrow. The only difference this factor makes is that now this case will become an even larger political game. Bad for the investigation, exactly the same pattern as in many things here…
Checkme:
Prime Minister is up for election?
Subdudie
Tell me abot the Shango forum please. I am in Awe.
this is a nightmare it seems impossible to be true, I don’t think I have ever seen anything like it…even the police chief himself said they was a very special case..but he tried to blame it on pressure from the press and not the actual events of the situation.
Under Shangoian sociocultural stratification, wold the chief be “an European” or “Aruban”. Help us a bit here. We need to know if he’s a Babylonian or an Arawak. I can’t help it, this is really funny.
Checkme the worst thing I see about it is it brings a person in that hasn’t been on the case and hes the lead investigator, but hell we could hope it might be a good thing.
new girl….I have to agree……Aruba seems to be the place for money laundering and transporting of drugs. I had read on some site that some Prince was involved in a lot of this.
I don’t know how any person involved in this coverup can sleep at night. It boggles the mind to think such evil doings can exist & the perpetrators can close their eyes, lay their head on a pillow & sleep with peace
Hopefloats
But a new prosecutor is also coming in right???
new girl, the only way the Dutch benefit is keeping the Arubans happy in their own land. They would emigrate by the thousands to Holland in one month if things go sour here. But the true beneficiaries here are the American travel corporations/hotels here, none of which are owned by Arubans. Only the secondary industry are for Arubans. The major political players are of course backed by some families here, who have total control over what goes. Small island, so thi is quicly apparent. it happens all over the world but here it’s just very apparent.
new girl I know how you feel but I try not to loose hope I just keep wishing something would break and blow this whole thing wide open
keep praying, Hope. That’s all we can do
Lucy: At the top of this page, there is a link to “New Server”. click it and scroll down, then click on button. Takes you to Discussion forum. Look at index of fora topics.
“Theories and Speculation” is one forum. Open it and you will see various topics. “Media Contact” is one of them.
Shango is being referenced and decoded all over the place.
One concern about the Discussion Forum, you can see everyone who is logged on the participate in forum. Shango may not like this feature.
However, news orgs said they are watching some blogs, could not confirm watching this one yet. I can confirm I gave them this site address and explained Shango as best I could. Was told by Fox, they would check and some one would email me with Fox’s thoughts on validity and quality of info.
At least I got a fairly firm committment Fox will look at us.
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.
the lead prosecutor still there she just took Marianne Croes place talking and giving the interviews to the press
dude, yeah, PM is doing a good job, he can stay. his group is not perfect of course, but at least they are not ripping off the islanders so criminally as the previous regime.
Lucy: I beleive Chief is Dutch — not Aruban. Would be a Babylonian.
lucy, don’t get too tangled up in Shangoian’s web… LOL
Hi – I’m back – what’s this about the police commissioner being forced out? This is not true. He is to retire on the 6th of July, however he is staying on until this case is resolved as to not leave in the middle of an investigation.
Shelly, the largest portion of the drugs that pass through Aruba goes to the US – that’s where the demand is.
What is the latest word from the searchers from Texas?
Subdude
But many Arubans have Babylonian last names and have been in the island for over 300 years, so they don’t sound Babylonian to me. He may be a van der Straaten whose great, great great, great grand papa arrived when the Dutch acquired the island from the Spanish.
subdude – the police commissioner is Dutch. He’s been here in Aruba for almost 10 yrs I think.
dear people, too late for me… gttgo, keep at it dude, hug for Lucy, Yliana, continue the trail.
Lucy: I thought I read that on Greta he said he would return to Holland if not asked to stay on this case. Wouldn’t that make him Dutch? Arubans, answer please?
Yli who said he was being forced out?
Yliana
Ok. Thanks for confirming.
night Checkme
This took place in Aruba
May 5, 2005, 3:38:52 A Saudi Prince may be tried for drug offences in the US.
American investigators said they would attempt to extradite the Saudi royal Prince Nayef bin Sultan bin Fawwaz al-Shaalan, following the conviction of his ex-girlfriend and another man for their involvement in a drug trafficking plot.
Last week, American prosecutors made it clear that they would attempt to try others involved in the conspiracy in the wake of the convictions of the prince’s former lover, Doris Mangeri Salazar and Ivan Lopez Vanegas on Tuesday (03.05.05).
American government attorney Jaqueline Arango said: “We will continue to pursue all the legal avenues available to us. This prosecution is not over.”
You can read the rest here: http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/~femalefi/entertainment/45872004.htm
I didn’t read the Greta article, that is why I said he could be …But I know I can always count on you clarifying, so I asked you.
Me too, Check,.
I have got to go to work in better shape tomorrow morning:)
Night all, keep up the discussions and summon Shango.
Tnlady – they searched near a dam in an area called Moko today. Turned up absolutely nothing – dutch marines searched as well.
Good night Checkme
Yli do you know why Marianne(sp) Croes was taken off giving the interviews and coverage tothe media for the prosecution?
Shango was talking about multiple houses of rave…lorenzo has two houses on the island…one larger one and one near the mango groves that is more hidden…of the beaten path….surely music could not be heard there. The Cowboys must go there and enter the Maze.
night Subdude
Yli, what’s your take on all of this? Theories?
Adios, Subdude
After reading all these post I can see why you all are resigned and repeating yourself. More and more it looks like Joran didn’t kill NH. A 17 yr old cant hold back this long under such pressure. If Joran hadn’t done it, then this is my theory, based on Amy and Claudia’s disappearances in the Carribeans. Im surprised no one can still see the parallel between these cases.
There must be a crime ring in the Carribeans, be it a drug, prostitution, or slavery. Their agents prey on young female tourists. They closely observe situations with a girl first without even been seen around her. Once such a tourist becomes friendly with a local, they let the relation get intimate. Right then these crime agents suddenly abduct her. Under this circumstances who do you think will take the main brunt of blame? The guy who was intimate to her.
Well, I hate to post, but I’ll keep reading you people’s posts. I’ll come back when everything is over to see who was right. Bye.
Coincidentally, Natalee Holloway disappeared at the nexus of a Saudi-Venezuela-Miami-Colombia-Geneva-Spain illicit web for trafficking — one which at least involves illegal drugs and expensive artworks.
Read more here….this is very interesting:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=72893
there was a post earlier by Simian….
# Simian Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 12:24 pm
If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.
The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.
A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.
The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.
—–
people wondered what Picaros meant — Picaro means Scoundrel in spanish .. and there is a popular story which came up when I googled it ”
Tintin and the Picaros – First published in Tintin between 16/9 1975 and 13/4 1976. Published in book form in 1976.
I hear ….someone on hear one night gave a meaning for the word “music” but it wasn’t the kind of music as in the kind that is played but something along the lines of “people communicating and talking of the parties to get people to go” not sure what the exact meaning was I can’t remember ..does anyone else recall the post?
Hope, I think she was taken off because she doesn’t look convincing. A lot of people here say she looks like a baby and for such a serious case you need a different ‘face’ I guess.
“Honey laden notes” … could also mean music. Shango mentions this also.
Meaning … very good music bring the people to it.
A friend through email clued me in on that meaning.
The Aruban Dutch are playing musical chairs. One person will be left hanging to dry. The rest will wander away, and feign ignorance.
I am sad about this. I believe that the “true Arubans” are good people, generally. And they may suffer at least some, if not most of, the harm because of this cover-up bullshit. And there seems to be little dispute but that the parties who know how and why Natalee disappeared are (a) NOT native Aruban, and (b) not American.
And by the way, there is no American ex-boyfriend responsible for this disappearance. I will not defend this argument. Others have already done so. Anyone hanging onto this theory after all this time is (a) dishonest, or (b) completely ignorant of the details.
I am sad for Arubans. I will NEVER travel to Aruba, at least until the Dutch are no longer in unrestricted control.
I agree, “I hear”. Those mango groves are near a golf course and one of his houses. Why haven’t they gone back there to look…it’s on the north of the island, I believe. Shango, are you there?…please. help us out!
she did look rather young but that doesn’t mean she can’t do her job but I can see what you saying to be the case …thanks
are flyers advertising the raves circulated around the bars/afterhours?
bond, i agree with you, but i believe that joran took her to the rave, to the druglord…perhaps he gets a reward for his services…..they need to question the kasino dealers about joran’s habits.
Kristy Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
“Honey laden notes” … could also mean music. Shango mentions this also.
Meaning … very good music bring the people to it.
A friend through email clued me in on that meaning.
Someone on here one night mentioned that there are flyers posted or giving out or something like that when there is a rave party. Couldn’t “Honey laden notes” also mean that what ever is written on these flyers are deceiving….to make it sound better or different than what it really means??? I don’t know
has it been confirmed that lorenzo was seen on the Kasino videotapes that Natalee was also on?
TnLady – my head spins from all the sides I’ve found myself on. Let’s start with what I don’t think happened. I don’t think Joran killed her. I don’t think the K bros did either. It is impossible to be drunk and get rid of a body that late at night with such carefullness that nobody can find her. I think she’s alive – or else we would have found her by now.
Most likely she is in a house, be it a residence or some off the beaten path country house where there is little traffic and few neighbours.
that may be shelly…same thought
Where did the story about an exboyfriend who arrived to aruba on his own will come from? ya see going by shango and simian … I had thought she met someone in the kaseeno (a local) whom she met and dissed for someone else (aka Joran).
Anyhow, Im curious to know of the ex-boyfriend. Just where the story came from. I have allready heard that there was NO ex=bf there …. as well as they were drinking responsibly.
Just asking where the story was heard ?
Shango…give us more…let us find her….
Hope – I think she was answering all the questions quite well, It is appearance. With so much attention on this case – you don’t want any small thing to bring any doubts to the seriousness of the information being transmitted.
Shango…give us more…let us find her….
Honey Laden notes … I also thought could mean just plain money. Money is a federal Reserve Note .. and what else brings people in besides the Lure of money? Sweet, Sweet Money.
I dont exactly know the analogy of that one.
I have to agree Yli
MY LOVES – I adore the regulars here. I am sorry to be so slow. I am so tired after the last two nights. It is catching up with me, and I need to sleep. I hope that our wonderful and benevolent hosts keep these forums open.
If they shut them down, I hope that my email is accessible and you guys can find me. I’d just post it right here, but I am at home and I know that some anti-Natalee foreigners have sent viruses out. In fact, I believe this is why my Netscape connection is inexplicably gone.
Good night my friends. I wish the news moved swiftly.
Shango uses the term wampum for money…why would he/she change, everything else has been consistent?
Kristy I think the ex boyfriend thing came up a week or so ago on one of the sites and then when Current Affair announced they had some american guy that was supposedley on the beach where the last story Joran told about being with Natalee ..people assumed they meant the ex boyfriend that was my take on it
Maybe Mary ann Croes … asked to be taken off. Just a guess. Or maybe she is on vacation.
night new girl rest well
I think the ex is a theory the Aruban polis came up with the place blames on the Americans to protect tourism.
night new girl
all4natalee@yahoo.com
Jamie Holloway (an aunt I think) set this mailbox up. Why not send some of these visions and hints and prophecies to her? At this point I’m sure the Holloways are willing to accept anything. But to me, the whole white slavery angle, while theoretically possible, seems sensationalistic. Of course, if you believe in the Bible Code, there is a link in the discussion groups that uses the Bible Code to say Natalee was abducted into slavery and will reappear alive in a couple of years. Until the truth is known by all, I’m going to believe Joran did it…intentionally or not. Now dutchlady who was posting on the discussion boards until trolls ran her off (thanks a lot, morons) said earlier this week that she thought they would find a body Friday (tomorrow, 07/01). We’ll see. Let’s hope.
That was weird…the forum arbitrarily decided to use my old name instead on that last post. How weird.
I agree, he does use wampum for money. so then it could be music.
honey laden notes
anyone have any other ideas ?
See, I dont think I get “current affair” .. i would have liked to have seen that when they show that.
All we have left is the faith that justice will be done whatever the case might be and closure for the family and all the stressed out sleepless people they are following this and hoping for the best for this family that has been thru hell and back the last weeks.
This is off season, and tourism is up. I dont think this will hurt Arubas tourism very much. Dee Fine wont be visiting Aruba … but I dont think the tourism will be affected drastically.
Definition of Honey: Sugary or ingratiating words; flattery
Definition of “Laden”: Weighed down with a load; heavy, Oppressed; burdened
hmmmmmmm…..don’t know
I thought that was you Dan but I wasn’t sure it sure sounded like you I thoguht to myself ..good to see you here
Kristy you in AL?
Kristy…
I think music is music…rave music, which cannot be heard during the day when the search team searches because it is daytime and the raves occur late night.
I think honey laden notes could be the flyers….do you remember the exact quote?
“I hear” I think you’re right on…Shango, don’t you agree?
Kristy – you are right – this case, believe it or not, has actually helped tourism. Of course there is that boycott Aruba campaign but in general there are plenty of level headed people out there who see this for what it is – an isolated incident in an otherwise very safe place to visit. And of course with the many images of our sea and sand – it got people more intrigued and wanting to visit.
The increase has been 13%, according to the statistics of the Tourism Authority.
Well time to call it a night…talk to you all after the weekend ..godspeed to all the good people here
Will someone who has any reasonable understanding of law and jurisprudence explain something to me.
Question – Why would police authorities handcuff 2 suspects together and let them sit in the same car and take a ride together in the middle of an investigation? Is it so that they both can discuss how they can get their stories to match now (after each of them has changed their stories and now have conflicting stories)? Is it so that they can give each other emotional support? I thought police detectives were taught during the first day of school that in cases w/ multiple suspects, you keep them apart so that they can break their stories and the truth can come out — rather than keeping suspects together so that they can plan together.
Second question — Why let a father who has some legal training (though not a lawyer) meet w/ his son suspect after he has already advised that suspect that if there’s no body found, there’s no chance of conviction?
I have been trying to give the Aruban police the benefit of the doubt, but after watching these 2 incidents, I have given up (and think most Americans will) on the chance of their being fair police investigation.
Would someone please try to explain or justify the Aruban police’s actions here?
good night Hopefloats
Yeah, it’s me…blog pulled a fast one. I followed the link above to the story of the other missing girl that disappeared in ’98…I had totally forgotten about her, even though she looks almost exactly like a friend’s wife. If she was sold into slavery perhaps her case will be broken and so will such practice. Well, I’ll catch you guys on the flip side. We’ll see what happens, and if our prayers and thoughts pan out to anything, or if this case is a lost cause.
If all of Shango’s believers could go to Aruba at the same time, surely we could find Mary…pronto.
Different definitions of “Note”he sign of a particular quality or emotion: a note of despair; a note of gaiety in her manner, Importance; consequence: Nothing of note happened. Notice; observation: quietly took note of the scene. A formal written diplomatic or official communication.
A brief informal letter.
It could have been some type of note or letter that was loaded with flattery to seduce Natalee somehow into going someplace? don’t know. I need to see the original context.
Observer…I am an attorney, and the only plausible answer to your inquiry is that the polis, and their chief, are corrupt….they rule by fear…the druglords probably line their pockets with money, and as long as the decent locals keep quiet, they are safe and can coexist with the lions and babylonians.
I agree I hear Shango
the Babylonians are “covering” for the lions because the lions keep them paid…everyone looks the other way. Everyone except for Beth…and Shango.
As an American….I would not blame the Arubans if this is the case. If the Babylonians can be taken down, thus crushing the lions, I would visit again.
I’m an attorney too, and my follow-up question to I hear Shango and Shelly: Are the “decent” local Arubans proud of such a society where they have to keep quiet about such things and accept them, even though they see some grave injustice, or at least justice not being carried out properly towards suspects?
Is the attitude of the locals simply to accept this?
I hear Shango – Hogwash! You watch too many movies! We have no fear of speaking our minds or protesting against the police or any other authority.
I hope Beth can blow this whole thing wide open…not just for herself and Natalee, but for all of the other young women who are preyed upon…and also for the Arubans who are forced, for fear, to keep their eyes, ears and mouths shut….see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil…..
I think it has to do more with “Fear”…..If they don’t want anything to happen to them or their family…..then they must pretend as if they know nothing.
Shelly – then why don’t the locals on here admit that instead of distracting the issue
observer – you have absolutely no clue what goes on in the interogation room so how can you say that justice is not being served. Do you think justice will be served if the police started telling everyone what the one suspect said and then have everyone reacting to eachother? Or just simply keep quite to protect the integrity of the evidence – because they obviously have some or else the judge would not have prolonged their detention. Just remember that if we were operating with American law, these kids woudl be free birds right now.
The Arubans have no power by themselves…thus, they go along with the status quo to live their lives…that’s why I’m glad to be in America! I don’t take our freedom for granted.
Yiliana…how many times have you protested against the police? and do you live on the “good” side of the island? Are you involved in the underground world there? If you aren’t, then you probably are naive to the ongoings there.
Yliana ….I don’t think “all” people that live on the island “fear” anyone….the good people that never break the law to begin with…..more than likely would not know about all the corrupt things going on. It would be people that do drugs, prostitute’s, etc.
I am sure these people see & hear all kinds of things.
Here is part ….
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes
………
They were handcuffed together for the sake of the media. Joran and Deepak or was it Satish .. were uncuffed before getting into the car. Joran rode up front and the other in the back. How is that so bad. if the media wasnt breathing down their backs, they probably would not be cuffed at all. The boys are not a threat … they are not going to “run”.
Yli:
Paul VDS stated in an interview that he was NOT interrogated…that he only was asked to give a statement……sounds like they are really beating him down for information in there. And, why didn’t it come out until after he was released that he told the boys no body, no case….
I may not know exactly what the interrogations were like in there, but I think I’ve given you more of an interrogation in my last two posts than PVDS got the whole time he was incarcerated.
Yliana
are you registered in the forum .. i would like to PM you.
Kristy – The concern about them sitting together is not that they will run. It’s so that they don’t further discuss the case and collaborate together, whether through verbal or nonverbal communication. Having trial law experience myself, you never do that, regardless of how much you interrogate them separately in private, you don’t ruin that progress by allowing the suspects to have a conference afterwards (reply to Ylana).
Kristy….perhaps these girls have to have a special invitation/flyer to get into the rave…..maybe it is flattery that they were “invited” into the bowels of hell?
i hear shango – I know more about this island than you ever will; you sit in judgement thousands of miles away when you don’t even know which side is south. There have been protests against the police and the government and we are still alive. We don’t live in a communist country as you would make it seem that we are all afraid to speak our minds to avoid beatings and false imprisonment. Give me a break.
To say that I am naive – well, you don’t know me and you don’t know Aruba. You are making random accusations because you don’t understand our system and it appears that you have no interest in understanding it because then you can’t blame just to blame someone.
I would have to agree with you observer but…..in this case….since the 2 brothers were involved in the same case….they already had plenty of time to communicate between themselves what they planned to say….or, am I wrong.
I wasnt referring to whether or not they would run due to the fact they were sitting together. they were cuffed to go from the station to the car. they before getting in they were uncuffed. Police driver, joran in front pass seat, and police in back and Deepak in back. how can there be any communication to hinder the investigation/case in a situation such as this?
Obviously im missing something.
If joran invited her (only) to the rave, then maybe she felt special and maybe that explains why she “lied” to her friend when she told them she would catch up with the other group…because he told her that her friends were not “invited”?
I have gotten flyers to raves before…and was told that you had to bring it with you to get in…..it is so they don’t just bring anyone in….like someone who wouldn’t be “safe” to them…..like a NARC or something.
Kristy – no I’m not registered yet.
Is Shango in hiding?Very interesting posts he/she have made.
yet …. are ya gonna register …
oops that was *has made
Yliana……I was wondering…..does Aruba have a “Witness Protection Program”?
Shelly – it was Joran and one of the brothers together – not both brothers together. Mixing joran with the kalpoes now could potentially hurt any results of the interrogaiton so far. I did not see a policeman get in the backseat. For all I know, based on how things look now, the police in the car probably gave Joran and Kalpoe a joint to smoke on the way back to jail.
I hear Shango Says:
July 1st, 2005 at 12:12 am
If joran invited her (only) to the rave, then maybe she felt special
That makes sense…….could very well be what happened.
Yli….I was not personally attacking you, although it appears you would like to do that to me. I was simply providing my opinion of why perhaps someone like Shango doesn’t just say who he/she is and go to the authorities. It is very clear that the polis chief is trying to sweep this under the rug….what the underlying reason is, we can only speculate…
….don’t judge me…you know nothing about me….and I have spent time in Aruba…and if you were following along, I said I don’t blame the decent Aruban people for any of this. There are nice tourist like parts of the Island and other parts that look like hell threw them up. We have that in the US too, but at least I admit it.
Kristi – I was thinking about it – but not sure
Shelly – no – we don’t have witness protection program
Observer….I didn’t know that……then that was a “Big” no no….atleast it would be in the US. But, we must remember that Aruba does things differently…..I would hope & pray that they were not allowed to speak to each other.
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I have heard that they were put in the same room on more than one occasion. Things are very different there….and I believe, IMO, that things will be even different after the polis chief leaves.
Yliana Says:
July 1st, 2005 at 12:17 am
Shelly – no – we don’t have witness protection program
I just thought maybe if there was…..that might be a way of getting “somebody” to talk & tell the truth. That way…..if it was somebody that they feared….they would be moved to another country or island with a new identity.
I hear Shango – I never said Aruba is all roses. We have our share of problems. With a country as small as ours we have the same types of problems as any larger country without the budget.
This is what you wrote at 11:58
I’m an attorney too, and my follow-up question to I hear Shango and Shelly: Are the “decent” local Arubans proud of such a society where they have to keep quiet about such things and accept them, even though they see some grave injustice, or at least justice not being carried out properly towards suspects?
Notice the “decent” ?- well, as a local Aruban, you insult our integrity and decency and yes, I take it personally. Not because you, but because there are many like you who would just judge. We think the investigation is going slow but in no way would we sit idly by should some grave injustice be taking place.
goodnight everyone … too many early morning chats have made me … emmm … tired !
I will have to catch up tomrrow. hopefully I will not miss much.
Night
Well I guess I’m going to have to register now since we won’t have this page anymore!
Well, if you do register … send me a PM … So I will know who ya are. Im registered as Kristy.
Yliana….the post from11:58 was made by Observer….not I hear Shango
kristy – will do.
Shelly – yes, thanx – my mistake – I meant to address my message to observer, got confused i guess.
sorry ihear
what post is everybody going to in the discussion forum?
new girl sounds like a nice slab o’ ass to me. yea? nay?
still haven’t found NATALEE I SEE. MAYBE IF THEY OFFER ARUBA THE AWARD MONEY YOU THINK THEY WOULD FIND HER? THAT MAYBE THEY WILL LOOK AGAIN. AND STOP TRYING HARD ON PROSECUTION OF THESE 5 MEN. FIRST FIND NATALEE. I FIND THIS BACKWARD THINKING. EVEN IF THEY ARE INVOLVED NATALEE NEEDS TO BE FOUND. IS THERE NOT ENOUGH POLCE OVER THERE SOME TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE 5 THE REST GET TO WORK AND FIND THE GIRL . (THE REAL WORK) IS LOCATING NATALEE AT THIS POINT THATS WHAT REAL POLICE DO FIND VICTIM SEARCH AND SEARCH. HANDCUFF SUSPECTS AND GET TO WORK. DON’T HAVE TO BE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE IT OUT.