The Dana Pretzer Show – Tuesday, November 24, 2015 – Join us Tonight for an Hour Long Discussion with Author David
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The Dana Pretzer Show – Tuesday, November 24, 2015 Download Podcast
Judge Jerri Collins Sentences Domestic Violence Victim to Jail for Contempt of Court in Seminole County, FL courtroom
JUDGE SENTENCES DOMESTIC VIOLENCE VITIM TO JAIL FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT …
Wow, nothing like re-victimizing the victim. I will be the first to say that I do not all of the details of this case; however, the judges actions just seem very, very wrong. Judge Jerri Collins not only sentenced a female victim to jail, the judge berated her as well. The judge said to the victim after she said at the time she was going through a difficult time and anxiety replied with the following, “You think you’re going to have anxiety now? You haven’t even seen anxiety.” REALLY, who really thinks that is appropriate? The contempt of court case took place back in July and the woman has already served her 3 days in jail. The judge acts like she has never dealt with a domestic violence victim and the mental and physical abuse they go through. The law may be the law, but there were other options the judge could have sentenced this victim of domestic violence.
There had to be a better way of handling this.
How ironic, now the judge who sentences a domestic violence female victim for not testifying in a case against a domestic violence suspect is not talking. Isn’t that rich. So the judge doesn’t feel the need to answer any questions, huh? Maybe it is because judges think they are above the law.
Channel 9’s Karla Ray has been trying to question a Seminole County judge for three days about a ruling that sent a domestic violence victim to jail, instead of ordering community service or a fine for skipping out on a subpoena.
Ray went to the judge’s office to try and get her side.
Judge Jerri Collins said she won’t talk about the matter in case her decision is called for an appeal. The victim has the option to appeal but since she’s already served her sentence for contempt of court, it won’t change what she’s gone through.
After she failed to show, she received no pity from the judge during the brief hearing.
“You need to tell the court why I should not hold you in contempt of court, I can sentence you to jail,” Judge Jerri Collins said.
Raw: Judge sends domestic violence victim to jail
“I just, things were…” the sobbing woman said.
“Why didn’t you show up to court?” Collins asked.
“I’m just, my anxiety, and I’m just…” the woman replied.
“You think you’re going to have anxiety now? You haven’t even seen anxiety,” Collins told the woman.
“I know,” the woman said.
“Those statements you told to the police on the day of this incident, is it true? The incident that happened on April 2, is it true?”
“Yes,” the woman said.
“Then why wouldn’t you come to testify?” Collins asked.
In April, the woman called for help after she said the father of her child choked her and grabbed a kitchen knife.
Daily Commentary – Monday, June 1, 2015 – Ohio Judge Has Been Known to Dish Out Unconventional Sentences
- Like the “eye for an eye” penalty to an assault suspect to be “pepper sprayed” by the victim
Daily Commentary – Monday, June 1, 2015 Download
Part 1: It Has Been 10 Years Since Natalee Holloway Went Missing, No Body … No Crime … And No One Tried, But We Know Damn Well Who Is Responsible, Don’t We Joran Van der Sloot?
ITS HARD TO BELIEVE IT HAS BEEN 10 YEARS …
May 30, 2005 … Alabama teen Natalee Holloway has gone missing in Aruba while on a class trip with her fellow Mountain Brook classmates to celebrate their graduation from high school, to begin their college careers and the rest of their lives. Or so they all thought. All of these young teens with their whole lives ahead of them, just celebrating one more time together before they went their separate ways in what was supposed to be a safe vacation surrounded by sand, sun and the sea. Like so many classes before them, a visit to Aruba was supposed to be the one last high school fling. Sadly, for Natalee Holloway it would be the one last thing she ever did in life, never to attend college, never to have the rest of her life. Enter Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe and everyone’s lives would be changed forever and not for the better.
Natalee Holloway and friends in Aruba 2005
The first post Scared Monkeys ever wrote on this missing persons case was entitled, ‘This Can’t Be Good For Tourism, Where’s Natalee Holloway’. At first glance, one night think it was rather crass and insensitive. But having visited Aruba since the 1970′s, having friends on the small Caribbean Island, even having dated a beautiful Aruba girl in my teens, and having lived and worked on Aruba, I pretty much knew what the prime concern would be for “One Happy Island” and that was to save its tourism industry at all cost. Even if it meant trying to push the dirt under the rug and hide things in the closet. The cover-up, collusion, corruption and cronyism would only be made worse in the case of missing Natalee Holloway when the individual last seen with the beautiful blond Alabama teen was Joran Van der Sloot, a boy of Dutch privilege who’s father was a judge in waiting with so many connections legally, politically and with law enforcement that all signs pointed toward the Holloway, Twitty and Reynold’s family being given the run around from the very beginning. I say this prior to ever having researched the case in depth or having talked to or met any of the family members. From experience, I knew the family was in for a hell of a time from past experiences on Aruba where the most simple of things are made into some of the most exasperating efforts in futility. I knew that Dave Holloway and Beth Twitty were in for a hell of a roller-coaster experience.
No one will ever convince me otherwise that the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the subsequent search and investigation in Aruba was obstructed on two levels, one from the Van der Sloot family and Paulus Van der Sloot with his connections to prevent his son from going to prison and two, on a police, prosecution and government level to attempt to sweep this under the sand and save their economy that depended upon American tourism.
18 year old Natalee Holloway went missing on Aruba and was last seen leaving an Aruba bar, Carlos N’ Charlies, with three boys, Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe. The news of Natalee’s disappearance was not made public to the adults in attendance with the teens until the following day when it was time to head off for the airport to leave. Natalee was missing. From the outset, something was very wrong in how this case was being investigated. The Aruba police had the mindset that Natalee was just off having fun and she would return because this happens all the time. REALLY? That might have been some what okay reasoning for Aruba LE had any one of the three people Natalee was last with were missing too. However, they were not, they were already lying. What changed this case, brought it to the forefront and escalated it to new heights that we have never seen before in a missing persons case was that Aruba and the powers that be never imagines that the Holloway/Twitty family would have arrived so quickly on Aruba and hit the ground running trying to find Natalee. The Holloway/Twitty crew were doing the police and detective work that the Aruba LE should have already had done. Like I said, from the outset something smelled to the high heavens, and it was not just inept and incompetent police work, some was so bad it was obvious it had to be intentional.
Carlos N’ Charlies 2005
The lies begin from the three amigos, Joran, Deepak and Satish … From the beginning of dealing with the three individuals who were last seen with Natalee, the lies were flowing. They stated that they dropped her off at her hotel, the Holiday Inn after having left Carlos n’ Charlies. How can the last three people ever to see Natalee not be considered suspects? especially when video surveillance tape showed that the three had never done any such thing. Wouldn’t that or shouldn’t that have been the first thing that Aruba LE should have checked? Instead, the family had to do the investigative work.
Holloway was last seen by friends getting into a vehicle and leaving the Carlos and Charlie’s nightclub in the capital of Oranjestad before dawn Monday.
Police questioned and released three Aruban men who said they dropped Holloway off early Monday at the Holiday Inn, where she had been staying about 3 miles from the capital of Oranjestad, said police assistant inspector Jules Sambo. The three were not suspects, he said.
MORE LIES … BLAME IT ON THE BLACK GUYS.
On June 5th, 2005 two black men were arrested in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Why, because they were black. How racist is that? The former security guards, Mickey John, 30, and Abraham Jones, worked for the vacant Allegro hotel, two blocks from the Holiday Inn where Holloway stayed. How does anyone arrest two black men for a crime when the last people seen with a missing person walk free? Thus, we see from the outset the mindset in Aruba to blame this on anyone, two hapless black men, just because Aruba can. And they might have gotten away with it had Beth Holloway not come to their rescue and state, they were innocent.
The 2005 Arrest of Mickey John
A judge ruled Wednesday there was sufficient cause to keep holding two former hotel security guards in connection with the disappearance of an Alabama high school honors student.
The decision means authorities may hold Nick John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, for nearly four months while prosecutors investigate possible murder and kidnapping charges in the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, defense attorneys said. Neither man has been formally charged.
The two men were arrested Sunday on suspicion of first- and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping, the latter of which is invoked when a kidnapping victim is killed, according to court-appointed defense attorneys Noraina Pietersz and Chris Lejuez.
Later in the case, I had the opportunity to meet Mickey John in the States through the aid of FOM and talk to him as to what happened, his involvement, if any, and his opinions on the case. After talking to him for 5 minutes it became obvious he had nothing to do with Natalee’s disappearance and what just an easy patsy to blame it on. Was Micky John a choir boy, of course not, but he was hardly a murderer. John told me that he would never make any type of statement, especially in Aruba fro fear he would be arrested again for no reason. What had always bothered me to this day was how did the Aruba LE, prosecution and judiciary allow the last three people ever to be seen with Natalee Holloway go from persons of interest and prime suspects to witnesses? From 6/8/05, Attorney general spokeswoman Vivian Van Der Biezan also told a news conference that three “persons of interest” who were questioned and released last week were considered “witnesses,” not suspects. HUH? They dropped the dime on Micky John and Abraham Jones and the Aruba legal brain-trust fell for it hook, line and sinker. Of course the fact that Joran Van der Sloot’s father, Paulus, was a lawyer and a judge in waiting with his many connections had nothing to do with this attempted cover up and frame job. It would not be until June 13, 2005 that Abraham Jones and Mickey John was released from jail.
Abraham Jones Released!
This announcement was telling on two fronts, one, justice finally prevailed in that these two black security guards were finally let out of jail as they had no involvement in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the other would be something that would become a common occurrence through out the investigation in Aruba. The second interest fact was that Scared Monkeys broke the news of the release of the two security guards before the AP. Needless to say that prompted many news outlets to contact us and ask how that was possible. This became one of the events in the case that prompted the news outlets to track SM, not the other way around. That’s what happens when you have people on the ground and know others with connections that supplied info and data on a case that was so fluid.
On June 6th, volunteers in Aruba searched for missing Natalee Holloway. About 700 volunteers joined police, soldiers and FBI agents on Monday, combing scrubland and beaches on Aruba’s southeastern tip in an unprecedented search for an Alabama teenager who vanished a week ago on a trip to the Dutch Caribbean island. The Aruba government gave their civil servant employees the day off to help search for Natalee. However, only about 18% of government employees showed to search on what was the biggest story to hit Aruba since their independence from Holland. Also, who did not search … Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe or Satish Kalpoe.
It would not be until June 8, 2005 that the three boys, Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe would be arrested by Aruba authorities in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. However, Natalee went missing on May 30, all this time for these three to get their stories synched together and to be coached by Joran’s father, Paulus Van der Sloot. Eight days go by and the individuals who were last seen with a missing person were allowed to sanitize, erase, get rid of and clean up all loose ends with the help of their master white-washer, Paulus.
Aruban police arrested three more suspects in the case of the missing American honors student Thursday, the attorney general said.
Attorney General Caren Janssen said police arrested three men that police had previously questioned and released in the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway.
Authorities have described the three as students – two Surinamese and a native of the Netherlands – who told police they dropped off Holloway at her hotel around 2 a.m. on May 30. Hotel employees, however, say that security cameras did not record her return.
Posted May 30, 2015 by Scared Monkeys
Arrest, Aruba, Beth Holloway, Blacks, Bloggers, Caribbean, collusion, Conspiracy, Corruption, Cover-Up, Crime, cronyism, Dave Holloway, Deceased, Deepak Kalpoe, Economy, Government, Joran Van der Sloot, Judicial, Justice, Kidnapping/Abduction, Law Enforcement, Legal - Court Room - Trial, Liars, Media, Misrepresentation, Missing Persons, Murder, Natalee Holloway, Racism, Travel, United States | 3 comments
It looks like the Biebs can scratch Argentina off his world tour list …
Judge Alberto Julio Banos ordered the “immediate detention” for singer Justin Bieber for the 2013 attack on photographer’ in Argentina. The singer is accused of failing to respond to a court summons. Justin Bieber is accused of sending his bodyguards to attack photographer Diego Pesoa outside a Buenos Aires nightclub. Under Argentine law, Bieber would face from one month to six years in prison if convicted on a charge of causing injuries. I think its fair to say that The Biebs wont be visiting Argentina any time soon.
An Argentine judge has issued an arrest warrant for Justin Bieber on Friday, saying the singer failed to respond to summons related to allegations he ordered bodyguards to attack a photographer in 2013.
Judge Alberto Julio Banos ordered the “immediate detention” of Bieber and bodyguards Hugo Alcides Hesny and Terrence Reche Smalls.
An email sent to a Bieber representative was not immediately returned.
Bieber is accused of sending the bodyguards to attack photographer Diego Pesoa outside a Buenos Aires nightclub. Bieber never returned to Argentina to respond to questions about the incident.
Under Argentine law, Bieber would face from one month to six years in prison if convicted on a charge of causing injuries.
Now if only we could get a judge in the United States to do the same.
The SCOTUS Reject Free Speech Appeal over Cinco de Mayo School Dispute Filed by 3 Students at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, CA
The Supreme Court of Mexico rejected Cinco de Mayo school dispute appeal … T0o bad it was the Supreme Court of the United States … What happened to the Country I grew up in?
Reuters reports that the SCOTUS rejected the on Monday appeal and left in tact a lower courts ruling that school officials in California did not violate the free speech rights of students by demanding they remove T-shirts bearing images of the United States flag at an event celebrating the Mexican holiday of Cinco de Mayo. REALLY? So a school can tell American students in America to remove their American flag shirts because it would cause an incident at an American school. Honestly, what the “F” happened to this once great nation? Justice isn’t just blind at the SCOTUS, it also appears to be stupid.
Just curious, who thinks that the SCOTUS would have decided 180 degrees different if the school officials had asked the Mexican students to take off their shirts with the Mexican flag on it so not to insight a riot? Or if it were black students who were made to take off shirts that might cause an incident? Or if Gay-Lesbian students were forced to take off their rainbow shirts for fear of causing an incident? I think we all know the answer.
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday left intact an appeals court ruling that school officials in California did not violate the free speech rights of students by demanding they remove T-shirts bearing images of the U.S. flag at an event celebrating the Mexican holiday of Cinco de Mayo.
The court declined to hear an appeal filed by three students at Live Oak High School in the town of Morgan Hill, south of San Francisco. School staff at the May 5, 2010, event told several students their clothing could cause an incident. Two chose to leave for home after refusing to turn their shirts inside out.
The school had been experiencing gang-related tensions and racially charged altercations between white and Hispanic students at the time. School officials said they feared the imposition of American patriotic imagery by some students at an event where other students were celebrating their pride in their Mexican heritage would incite fights between the two groups.
What part that this is America doesn’t the Supreme Court quite not get? Only in America is it considered a bad thing to wear something patriotic. This is just pathetic. Unlike in Mexico, citizens are supposed to have rights in the United States. Supreme Court, that means all citizens, including white Americans.
Just so everyone understands, Cinca de Mayo is not Mexico’s Independence Day, it celebrates the defeat of the French army during the Battle of Puebla in Mexico on May 5, 1862. Mexico’s Independence Day is on Dieciséis de Septiembre, but that doesn’t quite have the same ring does it? However let’s get real, today Cinco de Mayo has become more of an American holiday than a Mexican one giving folks the excuse to suck down some Margaritas and some cervezas like Negra Modelo, Dos Equis, Tecate or Corona.
Breaking: Arrest Made in Connection With Shooting of Two Police Officers in Ferguson, MO … News Conference at 2:30 ET Live Streaming (Update: WAPO Reporting Weapon Recovered)(Update: Suspect Named: Jeffrey Williams)
BREAKING NEWS … AN ARREST HAS BEEN MADE IN CONNECTION WITH TWO FERGUSON, MO POLICE OFFICERS …
As reported at NBC News, an arrest has been made in connection with the shooting of two police officers in Ferguson, Missouri. A press conference with St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch and St. Louis County Chief of Police Jon Belmar will be held at 2:30 pm ET Sunday, 1:30 pm CT.
The two police officers shot early Thursday morning outside the Ferguson police station, one a St. Louis county police officer, who is 41 and has been on the force for 14 years, was hit in the shoulder, the other police officer, a Webster Groves officer, who is 32 and has been on the force seven years, was shot in the face. The two officers have since been released from the hospital.
An arrest has been made in connection with the shooting of two police officers in Ferguson, Missouri, officials said Sunday afternoon.
“An arrest has been made in connection with the shooting of two police officers in #Ferguson. Thank you for your help,” the St. Louis County Police Department said in a tweet just after noon local time.
The shooting Thursday — gunshots rang out just as a protest was winding down — left two cops wounded, one with a bullet still lodged in his head.
Police said they have one person in custody in connection with the shootings of two police officers in Ferguson, Missouri, early Thursday.
St. Louis County police have arrested a suspect and recovered a weapon in connection with the shooting of two police officers standing guard during a peaceful protest in Ferguson, Mo., early Thursday, according to a news release.
Officials in Missouri announced a news conference at 2:30 p.m. Eastern time to discuss “an arrest in connection with the shooting at the Ferguson Police Department Thursday morning that left two police officers wounded.”
Law enforcement sources told The Washington Post that a local man was arrested in the late morning on Sunday and that the weapon believed to have been used in the shooting has been recovered.
UPDATE III: From the New Conference.
- 20 year old Jeffrey Williams named shooting suspect in Ferguson, MO. Williams is currently in police custody.
- The 20 year old suspect has been charged with Aggravated assault, assault in the first degree, a class A felony.
- The individual in custody has acknowledged to firing the shots at the two police officers.
- St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch confirmed that a weapon has been recovered.
- The weapon recovered was a handgun recovered at his residence.
- He was a demonstrator and has been a part of other protests in Ferguson, MO.
- He was currently on probation for receiving stolen property.
LOOK HOW THEY TREATED AN ILLEGAL ALIEN RAPIST IN INDIA ….
A mob consisting of thousands stormed a jail in the northeastern Indian city of Dimapur, seized the accused rapist, marched him through the streets and then lynched him. Syed Sirf Khan, accused by locals of being an illegal migrant from Bangladesh, was arrested on February 24 on suspicion of raping a woman from a Naga tribal community. It would appear that the Dimapur saved the formalities of a trial or incarceration by using mob justice and taking care of the matter themselves.
After the rape accused was caught, he was stripped naked, paraded and beaten up by a mob while the police personnel remained silent spectators, security sources said. The accused later died of severe beatings after being paraded naked from Central Jail to the Clock Tower Junction in the heart of Dimapur.
The body was dragged and later strung on the fencing under the Clock Tower Junction where armed personnel were seen standing with the crowd, security sources pointed out while clarifying that a total of 186 prisoners were lodged in the prison. Three convicts among the prisoners also tried to escape, taking advantage of the melee, but were later caught by the prison personnel, security sources said.
Here is an interesting back story of the events in how it relates to illegals. The local residents told this newspaper that the incident was a manifestation of the prevailing tension between the suspected illegal immigrants and local Naga residents of the area. Pointing out that large number minority youths, who came in search of jobs and livelihood to the state, got married to Naga girls and settled in the area, they said this creating a fear of demographic invasion among the tribal population of the state. But I guess if this same illegal came to the United States, he would have been provided a drivers license, pathway to citizenship, amnesty and income tax refunds all at the expense of John Q. Public. Also, had he raped some one in America, Obama’s policies would have just have allowed him to remain here and not be deported. The point here is not to justify mob rule, although dealing with a rapist like this was swift justice. The point is that don’t ever let anyone tell you that the US treats illegals poorly. If anything, these days they are treated better than American, law abiding citizens.
A mob of thousands stormed a jail in the northeastern Indian city of Dimapur, seized a prisoner accused of rape, paraded him through the streets and beat him to death before they could be stopped by police gunfire, a police official said on Friday.
The dead man, identified by the authorities as Syed Sirf Khan, was accused by locals of being an illegal migrant from Bangladesh and had been arrested on Feb. 24 on suspicion of raping a woman from a Naga tribal community the day before.
How the mob was able to overcome armed police officers on Thursday at the jail in Dimapur, the commercial hub of Nagaland State, was not clear on Friday. The top police official in Nagaland, L. L. Doungel, said that because there were a number of students wearing uniforms in the crowd, the police did not want to resort to violence.
“There would have been a lot of casualties,” Mr. Doungel said. “That was one reason. The mob was in the thousands.”
74 Year Old Victim Beaten With Ax Handle by Two Masked Men, Defends Self With Gun … Kills 42 Year Old Robert West & 18 Year Old Andrew Graseck Arrested,
HOW MANY TIMES MUST WE SAY IT, DON’T BRING AN AX HANDLE TO A GUN FIGHT …
A 74 year old man was attacked by two men, 42 year old Robert West and 18 year old Andrew Graseck, with ax handles in West Pike Run Township, Pennsylvania. The incident, an alleged break in, occurred Sunday around 9 p.m. on McGirts Road in West Pike Run Township. After the 74 year old victim was beaten with an ax handle, he opened fire with his gun, killing one and forcing the other suspect to flee the scene. In the end, Robert West was shot and killed and Andrew Graseck was subsequently arrested and charged with aggravated assault, simple assault, criminal conspiracy and criminal attempt. The district attorney will decide if any other charges will be filed against the victim.
A man in West Pike Run Township, Pennsylvania, opened fire on two masked men who allegedly tried to break into his home on Sunday night. The homeowner killed one of the men and the second suspect was arrested after initially running away, police said.
Police believe the two suspects, identified as 42-year-old Robert West and Andrew Graseck, 18, cut the power to the victim’s home and then knocked on his door. When he went to investigate, one of the suspects attacked him, according to the police report obtained by WPXI-TV.
After reportedly getting bashed over the head with the handle of an ax, the homeowner fired several shots, fatally striking West. Graseck then retreated to a neighbor’s house and asked the person to dial 911. The 18-year-old was subsequently arrested and charged with aggravated assault, simple assault, criminal conspiracy and criminal attempt.
Brandon West, the son of the deceased 42 year old Robert West, thinks that his father’s killer should be put in jail. Maybe some one should tell this boy, don’t do the crime if you can’t
do the time face the consequences of your actions.
“I grew up around him being in the military and a Christian family. My dad has never done anything like this, and for it to end like this kills me,” said West’s son Brandon West.
The homeowner received stitches for a gash on his head, but has since been released from the hospital.
Brandon West said, “That guy should be put in jail. He shot my dad right in the head. I don’t think he deserves to walk. I don’t care if he got that many stitches, I don’t care.”
Graseck was charged with aggravated assault, simple assault, criminal conspiracy and criminal attempt.
Investigators said the suspects targeted the victim because of a “business dispute.”
The district attorney will decide if any other charges will be filed.
Following the NYC Grand Jury Decision on Eric Garner, Barack Obama Fans the Flames … “When Anybody in This Country Is Not Being Treated Equally Under the Law, that’s a Problem”
Following today’s grand jury decision in NYC not to indict NYPD officer President Obama weighed in on a grand jury’s decision Wednesday not to indict a New York City Police Department officer in the choke-hold death of an unarmed black man, calling the episode an “American problem, not just a black problem.” Hmm, an American problem, eh?
Earlier Wednesday, a grand jury opted not to bring charges against the officer for his role in the death of Eric Garner, which was captured on video. It represented the second racially-charged case in recent weeks that required the president’s attention, following the lack of an indictment against Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson in the shooting of teenager Michael Brown.
“We’re seeing too many incidences where people do not have confidence that folks are being treated fairly,” Obama said. “This is an issue we’ve been dealing with for too long, and it’s time for us to make more progress than we’ve made.”
Obama declined to comment directly on the grand jury’s decision, saying only that Attorney General Eric Holder would address the matter more extensively.
The WAPO has an interesting take on the NYC grand jury no indictment of officer Daniel Pantaleo … ‘With Eric Garner, Obama’s body camera argument just took a big hit.’
President Obama announced this week that, in response to Ferguson and other cases of cops killing unarmed black men, the White House would call for $75 million to make 50,000 body cameras available to police departments across the country.
But on Wednesday, a grand jury declined to indict New York police officers in the choking death of Eric Garner — a case in which there was footage. And the timing couldn’t really be worse for the White House.
One activist who attended a White House meeting with Obama on Monday and talked with NBC News suggested that cameras weren’t exactly a cure-all: