Joran Van der Sloot/Peter R. De Vries Tapes: Why Some Pundits in the Natalee Holloway Case Should be Seen and Not Heard

Spare us the spin that Joran Van der Sloot made a “false confession”. Joran’s attorney Joe Tacopina floated that concept early after the Peter De Vries tapes were released and it was shot down immediately. Tacopina referenced the concept that “false confession” exists and then in the next breathe said, but not in this case. However, it would appear that his fellow partners in crime, defense attorney, have followed his lead.

Here is a helpful hint to pundits who discuss the Natalee Holloway case … know the topic that you are pretending to be an expert on. This message especially goes on to Defense attorney Ann Bremner from the Nancy Grace show.

There is nothing more pathetic than to hear an attorney on a cable show pretend to know what they are talking about just because they are an attorney. There is also nothing more hideous than defense attorney forwarding an agenda of one of their own.  The comments seem to be even worse when one listens to a defense attorney ramble with some on the most ridiculous excuses for suspects. In this case its using the theory of “false confession”.

How could anyone compare two cases that were more different in how the suspects handled themselves with regards to confessing to a crime?

(Go to minute 5:25 to hear the comments in question)

GRACE: OK. Out to the lawyers, Randi Karmel, Richard Herman, Ann Bremner.

Ann Bremner, you`ve got a guy that says I hope you don`t find her body because my semen will be in, on, and about the body. You`ve got him describing her underwear and he`s accurate according to her mother. This is not just caressing on the beach. Now he says she died of a convulsion and he disposed of her body?

ANN BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, either this is another iteration of statements he`s given before, which there have been scores of different statements, or in terms of the confession and proving this case, remember John Mark Carr. I killed JonBenet, coming home with the shrimp and a champagne. And, in fact, he didn`t. They tried every which way to show that he did it, but in this case, there is corpus delecti, no evidence.

GRACE: But the big difference – Ann, Ann, I appreciate that. Thank you.

BREMNER: Yes.

GRACE: Randi Karmel, the difference is that Joran Van der Sloot was seen by witnesses with her the last known person to be with her when she was alive. He confesses that he had sex with her. I can`t imagine that that was voluntary. And then disposes of his – of the body. Now, if it had been an innocent death, an accidental death, why not call 911, Randy?

Actually, the difference is that not only was Joran Van der Sloot one of the last known people ever to be seen with Natalee Holloway before she disappeared forever. Joran Van der Sloot had denied any involvement in Natalee’s disappearance or death from the outset. Joran has never admitted in an interview or in statements to police that he had involvement in the crime. (That is statements that we know of unless any were destroyed from 5/30/05). Until the Peter R. De Vries tape was released, Joran had denied all. Now, when he thought there was no camera or public audience … he made the admission and confession.

Let’s compare that to the situation with  John Mark Karr’s “false confession as defense attorney and so called pundit Anne Bremner wants to do. From the outset John Mark Karr stated that he had involvement in the crime against Jon Benet Ramsey. Karr never said he did not do it, then he did, then he didn’t. He admitted that he killed Jon Benet and stuck to the story. Even after it was determined through DNA that John Mark Karr had no involvement in the Jon Benet murder case, he still insisted he did. John Mark Karr wanted to be found guilty.

The two cases have absolutely nothing in common when it comes to the “false confession” defense. To say that “false confession” is what Joran Van der Sloot did is just plain lazy punditry. Joran Van der Sloot has denied all involvement from day one and has lied along the way in his denials. Maybe it’s time that cable shows get pundits on that know the subject matter and are familiar with the cases, rather than the only criteria being that they are a lawyer.

Natalee Holloway: Joran Van der Sloot … “I was High on Drugs During De Vries Tape” … Yeah, Sure You Were

JORAN, YOU WERE NOT HIGH … YOU WERE CAUGHT!!!

Who are you kidding Joran, if you were high on pot the Range Rover you were riding in it would have looked like this “exclusive” photo below. It’s time to face the fact Joran, every one thinks you are guilty and are involved in Natalee’s disappearance. Its not just in America, but in the Netherlands and Aruba as well.  As Jossy Mansur has previously stated,

“No one believes his story about being under the influence of marijuana because he never stuttered, never hesitated, his eyes didn’t become vague or unfocused, he was in complete command of himself all the time.”

(Pic Hat Tip: Klaas)

So first Joran Van der Sloot admits to the world that he had involvement in Natalee Holloway’s death and disappearance. Then, when the secretly reported tapes are released … Joran Van der Sloot states that he was only telling Patrick van der Eem what he wanted to hear as if he knew that he was a crime reporter. Then, we are given yet another excuse stating that Joran was high on pot when he made the admissions.

Joran Van der Sloot claims he was trying to impress Patrick, trying to be a thug life player. However, no where during any of the taped conversations does Patrick portray an individual who is impressed by what Joran is saying. If anything, Patrick is more appalled that Joran and his friend would have gotten rid of a body without knowing where Natalee was dead or not.

It is obvious that Joran Van der Sloot is a calculating liar. He tells just enough of the story to make himself sound tuff without divulging the details and exact names. Joran Van der Sloot is not stupid. However, just because a person has changed the names of certain people who had involvement in the crime, does not mean that there was not a crime committed.

(Dumpert.nl … Even the Dutch want no part of Joran)

It seems that many of our Dutch blogging “vriedens” at Dumpert.nl also agree that Joran Van der Sloot is responsible and complicit in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. They believe he is lying as well and are doing some great blogging on the story.

Natalee Holloway: Aruba Justice Minister Rudy Croes Says Joran Van der Sloot is Persona non Grata’ …

What goes around comes around and its Joran Van der Sloots turn at the wheel.

The tide is turning against Joran Van der Sloot and his family as even those in Aruba who once ran cover for Joran Van der Sloot and his involvement in the disappearance and death of Natalee Holloway are jumping ship. The continued tourism issue in Aruba as well as the smug and rotten attitude has finally warn thin on Aruba. Justice Minister Rudy Croes has stated that Joran Van der Sloot is considered persona non grata and other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island. Rudy, you are a dollar short and nearly 2 years and 9 months late.

“Let Joran be the first example of a Dutchman that is not wanted in Aruba”, said the minister, who also knows that judicially, it’s going to be difficult to really deny him admission to the country.  “I simply do not want him here.”

Rudy Croes, you are going to have to to do better than just not allowing Joran Van der Sloot back in Aruba. You are going to have to provide … Justice for Natalee.

As Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario stated, the Aruba people are fed up with Joran and his actions.

The people here are really fed-up with that character. The worst that could have happened to him is the video recording made by De Vries.  Voices are now being raised to kick him and his family off the island. Others want the U.S. to extradite him.

What has been amazing during the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway is the path of destruction that Joran Van der Sloot has left in his wake. Obviously, there is Natalee Holloway and the pain he has and continues to cause Beth Holloway, Dave Holloway, Jug Twitty and the rest of Natalee;s family. Then there is the Aruban people and its tourism economy as we have stated from the outset … what is good for Joran Van der Sloot, is bad for Aruba. Now in Joran’s most recent saga of not being able to keep his mouth shut and need to gloat, Joran implicated his one time friend Daury in the disposal of Natalee’s body and got his father Paulas Van der Sloot in a world of trouble.

Also Joran’s father, lawyer Paul van der Sloot seems to fall into disfavour with the Justice-minister.  The justice-department does not rule out the fact that the lawyer has smuggled in a cellular phone for his son, when he was in prison.  Joran mentioned that when the Dutch crime journalist Peter R. de Vries was secretly recording him.  Justice is now investigating whether Van der Sloot must be dismissed as member of the special committee on the prison system.  The same applies to his participation in the LAR-committee.

Joran Van der Sloot is a walking menace who cares of nobody but himself. He has no respect for authority, including that of his own parents. As Beth Twitty stated in an interview with Nancy Grace:

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Natalee Holloway: Comments Form Jossy Mansur Regarding New Developments in Aruba and Joran Van der Sloot

The following are comments that I received today from Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario. It would seem that Aruba has grown sick and tired of Joran Van der Sloot and his actions. Although they are late to the game, they now do not believe Joran Van der Sloot’s story or his excuses. Joran is no longer welcome in Aruba. It’s about time that Aruba stopped running cover for Joran. Then there is the following confirmation regarding a man who claims he found a telephone behind the lighthouse in 2005. The walls are caving in around Joran Van der Sloot and his family.

Everything is happening in Holland. The Dutch government is now interested in the case and plans to do something about it, we were informed from Holland. Joran was interrogated for more than two hours by the dutch national police and three policemen from Aruba. We still have to hear what came out of that.
 
The Minister of Justice declared Joran ‘persona non grata’ (unwelcome) in Aruba. He also said he is kicking Paulus off every government committee in which he has a seat (hospital, prison, etc.). Late, but proof of the change of attitude noticeable everywhere on the island. Most people here are convinced Joran is responsible for Natalee’s death.
 
The people here are really fed-up with that character. The worst that could have happened to him is the video recording made by De Vries. No one believes his story about being under the influence of marijuana because he never stuttered, never hesitated, his eyes didn’t become vague or unfocused, he was in complete command of himself all the time. He could have used it as an excuse had it not been shown in its entirety (in Dutch) and was seen and heard in Aruba by practically everyone.
 
Voices are now being raised to kick him and his family off the island. Others want the U.S. to extradite him. Things are moving fast on that level, but on the official level we find the prosecution still pussy-footing with it.
 
A man claims he found a telephone behind the lighthouse in 2005; it was broken; he fixed it and dialed a person with the phone, so his story goes. The person apparently answered and said that that number belonged to Paulus Van der Sloot. The man is now giving testimony to the police. Late, but still important enough to be taken into consideration.

Beth Holloway on the Nance Grace Show (2/8/08) … Beth Holloway … Jorans worst Nightmare: “the “F-ing” mother would never shut up”

Joran Van der Sloot, are you feeling the heat? Beth Holloway is your worst nightmare and on your tail.

Why does Joran Van der Sloot continue to act in such a smug, rotten, nasty  and contemptuous way when he makes references to Natalee Holloway, calling her a bitch and a whore? Its obvious from the beginning of this case that Joran Van der Sloot had an issue with authority and particularly with female authority. From the outset of this case his story never sounded believable … it more appeared to be he reacted to Natalee Holloway telling him, “NO!” 

For the first time in Joran Van der Sloot’s life he was confronted by a strong woman, who would not take no for an answer and would not go away. That woman … Beth Holloway.

But the biggest — and he also said the biggest problem is he had no idea of the magnitude — he had no idea that, you know, the “F-ing” mother would never shut up and would never — would have brought this so global. They had no idea what they were stepping into, Nancy, they were stepping into — no idea.

It`s just despicable what he has done. It`s a sad form of a human existence, if you ask me, Joran is. (Beth Hollway)

The following are some excepts from the Nancy Grace show on February 8, 2008. The full Nancy Grace transcript can be found HERE. Its a must watch and read as this was one of Nancy Grace’s better shows.

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth Holloway, is with us. And in his attempt to explain away his secretly taped confession, prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot says he was high on pot. Van Der Sloot just released from hours of questioning by Dutch police.

….

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: I`d be surprised if he told the truth this time. I think his pattern is the same pattern, try and lie and get his way out of it. He`s tried to avoid this justice system for a long time, and you know, I`m afraid it`s going come back and haunt him some day. I just hope that he comes clean. He`s got an account to settle, and I hope he settles it on this earth this time. If he doesn`t, you know, God bless him.

….

GRACE: Back to Tracy Sabo, CNN senior producer. abut Tracy, that doesn`t even make any sense because what we saw on video — and we`re about to show you more of that secretly video audio tape of Joran Van Der Sloot confessing to being with Natalee the night she died — this wasn`t all in one night, everybody. This was taken over months and months, weeks of driving around, yes, smoking pot. And he stuck with the same story for weeks on end. He mentioned being there on the beach when Natalee went into convulsions 10 separate times, Tracy Sabo. It`s not as if he got high and drunk on one occasion and came up with a fabrication. This was something, a story he maintained over months.

From the Peter R. De Vries video tape:

VAN DER SLOOT: Natalee. Come take a jelly shot off me. So the whore jumped on the bar, and she wanted me to take a jelly shot out of her navel. I did it. Then she says, So now you have to buy me a drink. So I said, What do you want? She says, What`s good? I say, A shot of Bacardi 151. She says, OK, that`s fine.

So she takes a shot of Bacardi 151. She takes it, and right away she goes, Whoo, bam — 151 proof, you know, 151 proof, that is. That`s 75 percent alcohol. So she asks for a chaser. She`s drunk, really drunk. What I was thinking, I`ll just take the girl with me. We`ll go (DELETED). So I say, What do you want to do?? You want to go to your hotel? I`ll just go with her to her hotel. That`s the best thing to do. She says, No, no, no, I don`t want to go to my own hotel.

VAN DER EEM: Did you try to resuscitate her?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course! I tried everything, man. I tried to shake her. I was shaking the (Bitch). I was, like, What`s wrong with you, man? I almost wanted to cry. What (DELETED) happening?

I said to him, This is impossible. He took the boat. He went far out, and he threw her over the side. Then he came back and he docked his boat there. And he came by my house for a bit.

DAVE HOLLOWAY: When you go into a panic, which he said he did, the first thing you think of is call an ambulance. And with him choosing the alternative of getting rid of her, something else happened. I believe it was a possible date rape drug he used and a possible rape and murder.….

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, “DIARIO“: Well, over here we find that he is guilty. Most of the people we`ve consulted, most of the people that have called us and have a reaction find that he was very articulate, that he didn`t seem to be under any kind of drug influence, that he was talking freely, that he collected his thoughts, so much so that he could describe in detail what happened when he was with Natalee and Natalee died in his arms, and that he called a friend and threw her in the ocean. The people of Aruba now are very, very irritated with this character, so much so that the minister of justice today declared him persona non grata in Aruba.

GRACE: Persona non grata in Aruba. With me, Natalee`s mother, Beth, is with us. Natalee had no history of epilepsy whatsoever, but you mentioned the possibility of GHB, Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate, date rape drug. Why?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I`m not really sure of what all it can cause, but when I think about that, if a young woman has no medical history of any significance, nothing, there is nothing marked in Natalee`s history of any medical issues — why would she all of a sudden go into convulsions or seizures? And I felt as if it had to have been attributed to a date rape drug.

GRACE: So you actually believe she had convulsions? You actually believe Joran Van Der Sloot on that?

HOLLOWAY: The only reason why, go back to the very beginning, why were we asked that question within 48 hours of her disappearance?

….

GRACE: Welcome back. With me tonight live, Natalee`s mom, Beth Holloway. We are taking your calls live. Beth, I know the Dutch version of Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession was much more in depth. Is it true — because I haven`t seen it – that he said he was afraid for her body to be found because his semen would be on and about her body?

HOLLOWAY: Yes. Yes. He does disclose that to Patrick.

GRACE: You`re positive?

HOLLOWAY: Yes.

….

GRACE: When you saw this and you heard him refer to her as a bitch and a whore, what was your response?

HOLLOWAY: God! I mean, Nancy, it`s just — when I hear Joran talking about her like that — my gosh, he just — you know, first you want to come through the TV I want to kill him, I mean, and peel his skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. And look what he`s done to his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone.

And when I hear Jossy Mansur speaking, I`m thinking, God, look at the hell he`s dragged us all through. Look at the hell he`s dragged from Jossy through to all of us. I mean, he has just totally, totally dragged us all through hell with him, this Joran Van Der Sloot. It`s just despicable what he has done. It`s a sad form of a human existence, if you ask me, Joran is.

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely. And there are two Daurys that have been discussed and I don`t think that one of them has been ruled out. So — and that is something else that has been surfacing as to, you know, as Joran gives this statement, he also says this name he will take to his grave. Well, he`s not in his grave, Nancy. So he says he`s going to take it to his grave? Well, I`m not so sure if you`re going to be disclosing a name if you`re going to take it to your grave so.

…

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF “KILLING FOR SPORT”: I`m in total agreement with you that this convulsion did not happen. I believe that Joran is always making Natalee the bad person. He`s always the victim. My guess is he`s angry at her because he didn`t get the sex he wanted. He forced it on her, he smothered her or he strangled her. He knew he did wrong. He couldn`t make the phone call to daddy and say, hey I need help, this girl`s passed out on the beach. He knew he couldn`t call anybody because he killed her.

And I also would look at the possibility that he`s saying enough, he`s saying what he wants to in the sense of saying that he was with her, had sex, and, yes, something happened to her, but he may be lying about everything else to cover up where she is. I would say if he`s worried about semen, maybe she is buried on land. Hey, I got an e-mail that said she was buried under the gardener`s shack at daddy`s house. I would like to know how the police checked every single thing possible on that land or any place else she could have been buried.

Because if she`s found someplace where Joran or his father had anything to do with, I`d say that would be good information.

…

HOLLOWAY: I would have to say if I knew the day that I got that call that Natalee was not gathering in the Holiday Inn lobby to depart for the airport, if I had known what was ahead of me, Nancy, God, I don`t know if I could have – I don`t know if I could have fought as hard. Had no idea.

You know, Nancy, I just thought I was going to fly to Aruba and I was going get her and bring her home, you know, we were just go there and find her had, you know? I had no idea what was before me. And it`s a good thing because, golly, I think back and I think, God, I don`t know if I – you know, it`s so insurmountable anyway to think about when that much of a journey is ahead of you.

Yes, it`s a good thing I didn`t know what was ahead, because I just don`t know if I could have fought as hard, Nancy. God, because I had no idea it would be — I know two and a half years later and from an investigative standpoint, I understand, sometimes it can take years, 10 years, and sometimes they`re not resolved. But to a mom and to a parent and when it happens, you want answers now and you want them today.