RSSArubans Protest Against Nepotism and Oduber Cabinet
NO NEPOTISM … NO PEACE?
Arubans protest on “One Happy Island” against the Nelson Oduber, MEP Cabinet. If Arubans can understand the unfair practice of nepotism against their own, maybe they can now imagine that same unfair treatment to those who are not citizens of Aruba.
Most important aim was to tell the Dutch delegation of the fraction-leaders that not everything is fine on the island. With texts like ‘Netherlands, please help us and set us free’ and ‘Cabinet Oduber, synonym for nepotism’
If Arubans feel that they are the unfair victims of the “Oduber Cabinet” that they feel is synonymous with nepotism, imagine what happens when that same favoritism is used in the investigation of a missing person not from Aruba. It cuts both ways. If one believes that nepotism is rampant in the present government in Aruba, then you must also believe that the same preferential treatment was used in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Its the protection and preferential treatment of all those with ties to the“Oduber Cabinet.” There is no difference.
Amigoe; October 26, 2007: Protest in front of Parliament
ORANJESTAD – About 100 people protested against the government’s policy in front of the parliament building yesterday. Most important aim was to tell the Dutch delegation of the fraction-leaders that not everything is fine on the island. With texts like ‘Netherlands, please help us and set us free’ and ‘Cabinet Oduber, synonym for nepotism’, the protesters ask among others attention for the debt-problem of Aruba, the increased government expenses, the increased inflation due to the sales tax bbo, and the lack of a dialogue between government and social organizations. They handed a total of four manifests to the Dutch fraction-leaders. The protest was initiated by the political opposition party AVP.
Posted October 28, 2007 by Scared Monkeys Amigoe, Aruba, Corruption, Government, Natalee Holloway | 113 comments |
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113 Responses to “Arubans Protest Against Nepotism and Oduber Cabinet”
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Is that BETH hugging Oudber ?? and if so why ??
a Very confuzzled Jerry from Ohio, or could that be Karen Jansen that atty prosecutor.
________________
SM: It’s Beth but that photo was taken back in June 2005 or soon thereafter (klaasend)
That was on June 9, 2005…the press conference at the Holiday Inn.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/09/national/main700585.shtml
Ohhhhh, Look Ma…
It’s the Master Steward
to the Great Dragon, himself!
What a wonderful day that must have been.
Hugging the mother of a missing child…
When day’s later he would be quoted saying,
“I’m tired of hearing that girls name”
And low and behold, when reports were going out
on the wires – the body of Natalee Holloway
was being recovered,
it was this man that made the statement,
“This won’t be good for Tourism”.
.
Mi Oh My… Aruba is finally getting the picture!
Or, is it that they smell the blood of the dragon?
As, surely, our arrows have met their mark.
Raise your voices, Aruba. Let them be heard from deep in the Caribbean Sea all the way to The Hague. Let the Nation that prides itself on protecting those fleeing Communism hear your voices.
Break free of your chains and rattle them in the faces of those that oppress you. Bend the walls of your courthouses that there shall be justice and liberty for all.
Seize the Dragon, tie him down with your strength and your power for it is “We, the People” who are tired of their flimsy excuses for letting the guilty go free while caging the innocent.
Seize the Dragon and free yourselves of his sins against the poor, tattered and torn. Put out the fires and silent the drums, and dance no more until there is peace, brotherhood and tranquility in Aruba.
Now is the time…
.
Boycott!
More proof that inaction is not the Aruban way. These people collectively protest against government policies all the times … Drug problems … environmental concerns …. the choller issue and … now … a direct protest against the “powers that be”.
Let us not forget … Arubans collectively protested against an anguished mother who dared refer to those who obstructed the investigation into the disappearance of her daughter with their lies as criminals but … they never possessed the will to collectively protest the corrupt investigation that was protecting their own … denying justice to an eighteen year old American citizen and … putting her family through a H— on Earth.
Janet
+++++++++++++++++
“FIRST THEY CAME …” is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group
Martin Niemoeller’s poem inscribed on a stone in New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, Massachusetts reads:
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Oh, the Great Oduber…
Is that reassurance you see in his face?
Or is he just smilin’ for the cameras?
(He shall go down in History as being one of the most corrupt, violators of Human Rights in the Western Hemisphere)
Smile BIG, Mr. Oduber… you’re becoming famous!
If there is to be justice in Aruba….
Let it begin with Natalee,
the most innocent,
the invited guest
the child.
.
November…
Nepotism is certainly a key word in Aruba…who isn’t related…I also believe Beth and Dave referred to that issue…it’s hard to accomplish anything when corrupt people and their relatives are in control..especially when something bad happens…what chance do you have…Arubans’s have been aware of their corruption but never did anything about it…maybe now they will..how much money has the gov’t stolen from the people of Aruba, how much money has filtered thru the ALE, the true Arubans built a place for tourists, only to be taken over by the drug lords. It is a paradise for drug dealers. It comes thru their free zone. What more of a perfect place?
Someone doesn’t just disappear without someone knowing why…Straaten did that along with Oduber…He said “I am sick and tired of this case…Straaten, “I cannot let this happen to my friends son”. Also, “I have seen the evidence”. “You can go to a mental institution instead of prison” Well, why isn’t Joran in a mental institution ?
And that is the biggest fake of a hug….!
Great post Patti.Lets boycott them into the sea.As far as I care.Let the bastards starve.
And please get that damn ad Awuba Awuba off my tv.
Absolutely GREAT posts Patti!!!
You have said it all so eloquently!!! w/out hate…only heart felt emotion and good ole common sense!!
Thanks Patti!!!
WAKE UP ARUBA!! Are you listening??
That’s not a hug just look at his right hand he is pushing her away
If Oudber had no ears he would look just like a dick
I cannot see anything really sinister enough to cause a cover up. No drug lords and no sex trading. Just something that went horribly wrong that was done twenty times before; but this time the girls got too angry and jealous.
The way you confuse an investigation is to give too much information which becomes then; conflicting.
Read what this company offers to deter and tell me if Aruba is one safe and happy island.
It sounds like crime and big brother are very active.
http://www.vcbsecurity.com/index_en.php
Why did Willeim van Cromvoirt try to distance himself from his son?
Why did he fire his son and Michael Dompig?
Why did he protest so much that he had no involvement with his son, Geoff when he was arrested?
Why was Willeim brought in for questioning?
Why did Willeim hastily sell his business and move back to the Netherlands?
Who bought Willeim’s business?
Who bought Willeim’s house?
Where was Willeim’s daughter during this investigation?
Why did Williem say that his company had not yet install security cameras at the Holiday Inn and Excelsior Casino prior to when Natalee disappeared, when an earlier ad that was removed said that was one of the VCB contracts?
According to this ad the VCB could provide hidden cameras and broadcast the video closed circuit anywhere on the island.
IMO; a very nice voyeur program.
Willeim knows Jan and Jan knows Paulus and Paulus knows Rudy Croes who works for Nelson Oduber whose son works for the AHATA: and Geoff knows Michael and Michael knows Deepak and Satish who know Joran who know Guido who knows Freddie who knows Sanders who knows Strawberry Croes who knows Geoff who knows Crazy Steph who knows Loco Mary who knows Keon and on and on and on.
Beth did not simply go up against a few perps and pimps; Beth had to go up against the whole friggen’ island.
10061906
The deed was done by the Judges son and that is where the cover up started, the Judge called in his markers and involved others who where behoved to him. It now is so “HUGE”, as Beth stated, that even the NL have trouble coming clean.
Had it been anyone else on that nasty fake island the crime could have been solved.
Thanks, Urine…
and
You’re Welcome Idslou!
I appreciate it…
.
Patti
Poor Beth, Dave and Jug, what they had to go through was hideous, despicable and just down right ugly. Desperately trying to find Natalee. Knowing these 3 boys including Paulus had everything in the world to do with her disappearance. They should of been arrested on the spot. It didn’t take long for Natalee’s family to become aware of the corruption. Now 2 1/2 years later and still no justice. I sincerely hope the Dutch can muddle through this mess and find the justice for Natalee and punish the guilty.
And still the pounding ?, what were they doing in the police station on Monday morning. The Dutch can maybe find their answers, right there and then!
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/SM%20Property%202/Diario1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/SM%20Property%202/Diario2.jpg
Joran does not have to worry about extradition to the US. Even though there exist an extradition treaty between the US and Aruba; Dutch Natationals are exempt from the treaty. How convienent.!!!! But Deepak, Satish, Freddie and Michael Dompig are not. And so convienent for the Gottenbos’ to move to the US. It saves a lot of paperwork.
Joran was in NY in violation of his release from prison condition. The FBI blew it then….
Tell me they did not have cameras set up in the Hotel guest rooms and live broadcast to sex rooms was transmitted.
http://www.vcbsecurity.com/camera_systems.php
…..1906…If Joran was in violation of his release from prison why didn’t JQK pick up on that. Maybe Joran got special permission. Aruba makes up their own rules to fit the situation.
Big article out this morning, which I’ve sent on to various people: corruption in Venezuela! Officials there are in cahoots with cocaine traffickers! Caribbean is at risk of becoming (as if it weren’t already) the playground of drug smugglers!
So what’s new?
And, as usual, our government seems inattentive.
I’m going to be taking a break from posting for a bit. I will NEVER cease to follow developments in Natalee’s case (or Amy Bradley’s) and will NEVER stop writing and urging action.
Unfortunately, it looks like nothing is going to happen until the water search is carried out.
And I believe that the Dutch and Arubans (though let’s remember, the Arubans told Beth and Dave that they didn’t have anything to do with the case … had to go to Holland for that)are just waiting to see if there are no results, so that they can close the case.
I’ve long been pointing out the parallels between the cases of Amy Bradley (who is almost certainly the subject of those photos shown on the Dr. Phil show, regardless of the cheap attempt on that show to cash in on the tragedy … they got the Bradleys to take part by promising them help in finding Amy. Once they were on the show … there goes the ‘help’) and Natalee.
Every day, it seems more likely to me that human trafficking was involved. The cover-up is too extensive for anything but something major.
Problem is, what’s the value in posting about theories day after day? I’ve written to the governors seeking info on the proposed voluntary boycott on Aruba tourism that was raised at the 2005 National Governors Association meeting. I’ve written to presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, who at the time was one of those governors, urging him to speak up and keep Natalee’s case in the public eye.
Nothing is being done, at least not publicly. Our government simply refuses to take heed.
It seems that even the family are silent now.
So I guess we have nothing practical to do except await results from the water search.
If Natalee’s body is indeed in the ocean, as many believe, then I hope to God that the search is successful.
But I’m not convinced that it is. And I regret to say that I don’t think our government will be prepared to do anything. Some say that if Holland closes the case, the FBI can step in.
But I don’t think Aruba will let them do anything.
God bless Natalee and her family.
See you soon.
I’ve said that I’ll take a break from posting; we’ll see if I can keep my word! After all, so many of us are committed to this ….
Blessings on all posters and workers here who, whatever their ideas, and whether they think I’m crazy or not, are likewise committed to getting answers … and justice … for Natalee.
..Richard…I don’t think your crazy and I don’t think anyone else does either…I think you contribute a great deal. So don’t stop posting, we need everyone’s input. Many people do not post but they still read. New ideas, old ideas, no one is right or wrong, we still don’t know what really happened to Natalee, but we do know Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes are not innocent.
So please Richard, stay with us!!! Thank You
Don’t worry, I won’t leave … and will still check in … and as I said, will NEVER abandon the case. But it looks like everything is on hold until the water search is carried out.
It SHOULDN’T be that way, but it seems to be.
So I guess we can all take a breather until then.
And meanwhile, let’s keep pushing that spineless bunch of self-promoters who are seeking the presidency … their main job is protecting the interests of AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Demand answers for Natalee! Demand that the FBI be invited back to Aruba, NOW, TODAY … or there will be a travel advisory and more.
(Some say the FBI can take up the case if Aruba and the Dutch give it up, but I don’t think that anyone can really believe that anything will be accomplished in that situation.)
…Richard…I guess everyone is entitled to a break, especially those that work so hard…so OK, would 24hrs be enough, just kiddin’…take what you need but don’t go away!
Richard: before you leave for awhile; this one is for you.
This is going to be long. Read it if you have the time. I have posted several scenarios and opinions as to what happened that morning to Natalee. Some of it I will not change my opinion, but there may be a possible explanation as to what may have caused Natalee to disappear.
I still believe it was a game by the pimps as to who could get someone in the sack first.
I still believe there were hidden cameras in Natalee’s room at The Holiday Inn.
I still believe that Joran lied when he said that he was an exchange student at the HI.
I still think that Joran and Guido were skimming the casino and Natalee was told how by a macho Joran. He had to brag to someone; that he could not keep to himself. How come he was only (Only) able to win back $100.00 for Ruth. $100.0 lost at Guido’s table and no one would question the dealer.
Natalee was not overly attractive but she had one outstanding attribute; almost platinum blonde hair. How many pictures of the pimps do you see with girls from Aruba with blonde hair? Where in any of the pimps pictures do you have a blonde blue eyed Aruban with any of them? Look at the pictures with Joran and crazy Steph or loco Mary and any of the photos on Joran’s postings.
For that matter where do you see any of them with a Dutch girl?
Only Joran for a short time with Fabienne.
Remember the remarks by Joran about Natalee’s pubic area being shaved.
Natalee was the game that was stalked and at the end of her vacation she was probably vulnerable and she may not have wanted her vacation to end. She may have had too much to drink and a drug from Joran would have finished her off.
During the course of he vacation, Natalee had to have met Joran, Michael, Geoff and other pimps before C and C’s as they all hung around the HI.
The other reason they hung around the HI was the hidden room cameras.
In leaving C and C’s Natalee may have thought she was going to another party that her friends had already left earlier to go to. She did not know they already went back to the hotel. “That’s ok then they will take me back to the hotel”. Joran wants to prove to his buddies that he can make Natalee and takes her drugged to a party that already had started; maybe a birthday party; maybe an extacy party. While there he and the pimps take advantage of Natalee. After the pimps are finished the girl friends at the party are pissed at them for having sex with Natalee and instead of taking out their anger on their boyfriends they take it out on a passed out Natalee. The first thing would be to cut her hair. That would be the ultimate insult to a blond by the dark hair female Arubans. Unfortunately it goes a little further, they are high on drugs and they attempt to kill Natalee. No body for no case for no forensic autopsy.
Now Aruba how do you tell the world that an American tourist was kidnapped and raped by a bunch of punks and then killed by the punks’ girlfriends at some prominent Dutch Nataional’s home? That in my opinion was the “something bad that happened”.
That is the basis for a cover up. She probably was removed still alive and taken back to Joran’s. They may have or not have tried to get some medical attention. When the inevitable happened Rene was called in to take care of Natalee’s body. The duct tape with blond hair was probably Natalee’s.
One straight path to the house of rave; while of gold bricks the street is not paved.
Instead of a noun modifying a noun; (house of rave) we make it possessive and change it to rave’s house. There is no rave scene involved it is a drug pushers house. The bloody mattress is taken far away from the crime scene. The bloody shoes, VCB shirt and sport glasses are also discarded far from the scene.
It is my opinion that Natalee was alive or recently died when Beth first arrived at the Sloot’s . While at the casino looking for Joran; either Joran or Rene took Natalee and dropped her off in one of the Crypts at San Anna Cemetery.
Now whose house did this “Something bad” happen at? “I took her to my house.” That would be stupid, especially if a half dozen other pimps are going to rape a tourist. You take her to someone else’s house half drugged and show her someone else’s house. When the victim wakes up and describes the attackers’ house, he simply says that does not describe my house. I don’t live in a house that looks like that.
Who do we know that was arrested for heavy battery and drug possession shortly after Dompig “resigned”?
I may be stuck on stupid… I hope I’m wrong and Natalee is alive, but unfortunately I can’t see it happening differently.
I cannot see anything really sinister enough to cause a cover up. No drug lords and no sex trading. Just something that went horribly wrong that was done twenty times before; but this time the girls got too angry and jealous.
The way you confuse an investigation is to give too much information which becomes then; conflicting.
brie: maybe they thought New Amsterdam (NY)was still owned by the Dutch.
By the way I wonder what ever happened to the trolls: Amsterdamlaw and Bluesky?
…1906..maybe Joran’s attempt with Natalee was all about rivalry…Geoff being objected by Natalee..and Joran, the head of the pimp club…a lot of male friction on that island…
But the bottom of anything..is Natalee got into car…maybe not willingly…Kalpoes car was parked in the back of C&C’S, anyone see this…NO! But Natalee was seen in the car as it passed C&C’S. There are witnesses to this..and Natalee hasn’t been seen since…that is kidnapping….who is going to call this, she was kidnapped!!!! Joran the sick psychopath and Posner, the man that allowed Joran in his casino and Paulus, the father who allowed his son to be there!
Prediction: the Aruba tourism industry will take a 35% beating / drop this winter, there will be an uprising by the populace (this is unfortunate) as wages earned and business revenues decline, taxes will increase, and some merchants will be forced to close shop due to reduced American tourist trade. I further predict that a certain “ship line” will no longer make Aruba a destination stop in 2008.
Someone has to wake up, and it’s not the present leadership. It is truly too bad for the good and decent people of Aruba, but it simply has to happen. It’s gone way beyond the life of one female…..it’s now time to extol retribution. Truly sad, but necessary.:~((
#23 Brie: “we still don’t know what really happened to Natalee, but we do know Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes are not innocent.”
That has got to be the friggin’ funniest thing I’ve heard in a while here. You, Brie, stating you still don’t know what happened. Oh my lord – everything you state you act as though it’s fact. Your silly kidnap statement above – how can you go from “maybe not willing” to “kidnapped” is less 4 sentences? It must be a gift. Anita describing Natalee’s underwear and acts allegedly performed – oh that’s right you learned that actually was said by Beth not Anita, according to what she wrote in her book. And the list goes on…
Well you sure seemed convinced as to what happened just 2 weeks ago:
brie on October 14th, 2007 10:58 pm
Joran has done this 20 times before…raping tourists on their last night..member of the pimp club…nothing new..but this time everything went wrong…Natalee had a reaction to date-rape drug….Joran knowing he gave it to her was guilty…..she died…and he disposed of her body with help!!!!
yoyo,
Joran is not innocent.
…#31…Your a troll#…Get lost!
Hate to get into the middle of this cat fight, but Natalee was having fun when she left C & C’s. Putting her feet up and yelling., “Aruba”.
Other than what I consider to be a bought witness at the racquet club, everything was going well for Natalee until she and Joran went to the beach, alone. Certainly, we know that Joran is not innocent and there are many more peopele that were cooperative with the cover up. But to say that Natalee didn’t willingly get into that car is ubsurd. She told her friends she was catching a ride to the hotel. That was not the point during which she was kidnapped… remember the cage and those that willingly and knowingly participated, even adults…
In my opinion, it was at this point that Natalee was taken against her will and fought with her abductors. This is what I believe the evidence shows, while all the rest is speculative.
And, Linda, you’re right, Joran is not innocent. This was well planned out, contemplated and executed in precise detail… thanks to Paulus.
I wonder how much it cost him, total, to have a child kidnapped and to cover it up. It was not the most ingenious plan… besides that, Natalee’s loving family were right on top of it. He was swetting like a pig.
.
Yo Yo:
Leave Brie alone… you know she’s new here and it takes time for the facts to come together in a logical fashion. You’ve been around long enough to know that.
.
Brie:
Don’t worry about Yo Yo, she just likes to get testy, sometimes; and although it may seem like she picks on you alot, it usually falls into the lap of whoever is handy. Besides, she’s not so bad… just opinionated like the rest of us.
.
Yo Yo;
Did you ever find out the name of that boy that was to have been buried at the rocks and recovered sometime around June 9th. Gee… I wonder what they did with that corpse, if there was one?
.
Boycott!
RICHARD:
Oh no… You’re not getting off that easily. We have only until November to see what the Dutch are going to do. They are talking about DNA tests and I am hopeful, but a little skeptic, about the results.
I think the water search is dependent on what the
outcome is with the Netherlands. Besides, now is not the time to conduct the search. We are still in hurricane season, there.
We’ve come this far, what’s one more month going to hurt? Besides, you are the one person that can make all the difference in the world.
Stick it out, Please?
Patti
Yoyo, some of the things you say here are okay, but you havent read Beths book or you wouldnt respond like you do. Beth had her heart ripped out of her. I dont know if you are a parent or not, but if you have children you would understand. If I do nothing else for the rest of my life, I will be Natalees voice along with Beth. There is no pain as bad, nothing as awful as losing your child. Then not knowing what happened to your child. We here are trying with different scenerios to find out what has happened. Leave BRIE alone. URINE is GUILTY. He knows what happened and so does his sweaty papa. ANITA knows…Alot of ppl on that volcanic ash know. For that, I will never rest until the truth comes out. BE NATALEES VOICE. Come to PRUSSIS PA and protest. Ft Lauderdale in NOV. STAND UP FOR JUSTICE…
If you recall Natalee said she was going back to the HI with Joran, who said he was a tourist student.
“something bad happened to Natalee”
YoYo care to expound on the above statement made by Satsissy? Satsissy also saw the ghost of “the girl” while he was locked up. Why’d he think “the girl” was a ghost and Paulus thought to say “CORPSE”?
Lying pigs, on a cheap fake island,
Boycott rolls on….
#31 is a pathetic sick TROLL. Ignore it.
Just checking in … 1006, you said “Natalee was not overly attractive.”
Beauty is, I guess, in the eye of the beholder … but I thought (think) she was (and possibly still is, though if she’s still alive, God only knows what the situation is now) very attractive.
Not only attractive … exotic-looking, in a way.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that one’s looks make any difference about the severity of a crime. (I’d be the last one to talk about good looks.)
But I think that Natalee was indeed attractive, and her blond hair made her look even more like a kind of proto-typical Hollywood star.
This could be important, both in provoking Aruban girls, or whoever, and in her eventual ‘sale.’
I don’t want to get into asking for a poll here, but I don’t think it’s too much to say that Natalee was (is?) beautiful.
I agree that girls could well be involved, but think that handing her over to a drug lord or his henchmen is more likely. No reason for this idea.
By the way, it hasn’t been posted yet … but there’s a story saying that a young American child (blond) was found in Morocco, in the search for Madeleine McCann.
It’s also said that it’s known to authorities that thousands of young blond children are taken to Morocco. These are children, mind you, not young adults like Natalee.
But those who don’t believe in human trafficking, please watch for developments in this story.
Richard:
That is why they make chocolate and vanilla and for some strawberry. Opinions abound and unfortunately that is all we have plus the voluntary boycott.
Natalee getting into the car..can you prove this was done willingly…NOPE…so where are your witnesses…the Kalpoes and the the big man himself Joran….it all happened in the back of C&C’S. She left in the car and hasn’t been seen since!!!! Natalee was in the drug sex mobile…we put in a sexual video, Natalee felt threatened and wanted to get out…..as anyone would…
And Thanks guys for your support….Opinions can change!!! And that is not a bad thing, what matters is Justice for Natalee..and whatever it takes…..
To Viet Vet or Murph,
I know you don’t post here often, but maybe you read. I’ve asked a couple of times, but I’m asking again.
When someone went to the hospital (you have told me that someone did—maybe you were along) did anyone check the hospital morgue? If so, were they allowed to view all bodies or just the Jane Does?
I’m thinking if there was a body switch or a double body bag, how much easier could it have been in the morgue or in a room befofre going to the morgue. Also, our dead friend Rene evidently had access to the morgue and therefore the bodies.
I’m betting the oldest person’s body in Aruba was there at the time. He would have weighed practically nothing. Would the dehydrated body of a young girl have added much weight?
Was she taken to the landfill? My best guess is yes.
Jerry
Okay,
I’m spilling the beans.
That Natalee’s body was shipped out of the country with
http://www.mementomori.net/05131.html is one of my top hypotheses, with the top being she is in the landfill.
I know anyone can read my post and anyone might be able to go to Curacao and legally attempt the exhumation of a 103 year old man, with no living relatives in Aruba.
I’m betting someone just might try. Someone might try to legally claim the reward money.
Jerry
Joran,
I know you read, and I know you know I’m on a hot trail.
If I had the power to direct two searches, you would quickly be in jail.
Don’t they just love you there? Jail that is.
Jerry
Brie – read below. She got into the car willingly. Why do you have such a problem with that? Is it because 2 were dark skinned? “Prove she wasn’t kidnapped” – that’s so silly Brie. “Superman must exist because there is no proof he does not”. Please.
6/16/05 BOR:
O’REILLY: Now, did you see her get into a car with Van Der Sloot and these two other guys?
KISSEL: I did not see her getting in the car. I saw her leaving, looked like with Van Der Sloot. I didn’t see her getting in the car. You couldn’t really see the road from inside the bar, so that is what I saw.
O’REILLY: But nothing set off any alarm bells for you, Ed? You didn’t — you weren’t concerned or anything like that?
KISSEL: No. I wasn’t personally concerned about anything. From what I’ve heard, I heard people talk about him and he sounded like a nice guy. So I didn’t think any big deal.
I personally had ridden in the car over there. I made friends with one of the waiters. I’m fluent in Spanish, and you know, I was friends with somebody. And so I was thinking, you know, I rode in a car with somebody, she rides in the car with somebody, no big deal. I didn’t think about it.
_________________
SM: Joran told her he was staying at the HI – Joran told her he’d give her a ride back to the hotel – Joran lied – Natalee thought she was getting a ride back to the hotel (klaasend)
Natalee was a intelligent girl and doesn’t seem like she would of done anything stupid…however a ride back to the hotel with someone stating he was staying there doesn’t sound too dangerous to me…However, what was in store for her with Joran and the Kalpoe’s….in the back of C&C’S….Maybe Natalee did go not willingly.
..YoYo..Fried Dough…Natalee never got into the care willingly……!!!!!!!!!!!!
Natalee could have been forced into the car at knife point for all we know.
It was not the first time Joran brandished a knife. Remember the girl at C and C’s that on her way to the rest room Joran pulled a knife on her. He made some remark to the effect that “I can get away with anything my father is a judge”.
Think about it……………
I would go along with the kidnapping for sex slave trade if the following were to have happened.
I don’t care how high on testosterone you are; why would you go to a club one hour before closing? If I were trying to get lucky at that age and in one hour I would not have bothered to go. Sixty minutes is not a long time to try and make out with a girl and convince her to go anywhere with you; especially if you look like Joran. If you want to pick up a girl you go earlier. You might have to try 10 or 20 girls before you hit on one. Boy he sure did get lucky on the first try. Someone may have called Joran to let him know that the prize was alone and would be easy. You don’t just strut into a bar and pick up someone with Natalee’s reputation; have so called jelly shots and walk out arm and arm an hour later.
Natalee had to have been slipped a date rape drug.
I don’t care how hard up you are for a female; after working all day and at the last minute drive from Orangestad to my home to Montana and then back to Orangestad to C and C’s just to drive someone else who is not really a good friend around to have sex in the back seat of my clean car. I might want to use my car because it resembles a taxi and I have a globe I put on my dashboard and I park around back so no one else thinks I am a real taxi and tries to get in my car.
If I were a dealer and was caught with my hands in the cookie jar (skimming the casino) I would definitely plan to get off the Island. Maybe the casino wanted Guido back and not so much the police for questioning about Natalee.
In Haunting Evidence it was stated that Natalee was being watched from the second day. Natalee and her friends’ room was changed the second day.
This then brings up the hidden surveillance cameras that VCB or an associate could have installed. This would mean that one of the managers at the HI would have been involved in order to make that move. Also Natalee’s room was renovated the week after she disappeared. Were the cameras removed because it got too hot? Why would I try and distance my business from my son unless he had unauthorized use of my business’s equipment for illegal purposes. Why would I say he did not have access to a VCB shirt when earlier photos show Geoff in uniform wearing a VCB shirt and shorts next to a Beach Patrol ATV?
I would go along if they went to the beach and Natalee was placed in someone’s pickup and driven to the shore where a boat was waiting.
Someone once mentioned the restaurant at the California Lighthouse but did not have the name.
I believe this was it….
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1007064644014460352dwiSYnCVmo
The one burning question with no answer:
“Then Something Bad Happened” What???????????????????????
Brie:
What are you thinking? They forced her into the car? People ride with people they “think” they know all the time. Natalee would not have had to be stupid to get into the car with a guy that had been hanging around the hotel saying he was staying there… a soccer player from The Netherlands… a guy that she had just spent a couple hours with earlier in the day at the casino.
I really think you’re wrong on this one. As I said, she told her friends she was catching a ride to the hotel and that she’d meet them there. She was seen yelling out the windows, in a joyful way, “Aruba”. She was having a good time, just like anyother teenager would after spending time in C & C’s dancing and drinking and being with her friends on their last night in Aruba.
Besides, if she was forced in the car, why didn’t she make somekind of indication of that to her friends as they drove by the group that was waiting for their escorts? Instead, she waived. Even when someone told her she shouldn’t ride with someone she didn’t know, she sluffed it off.
.
Plus, I was thinking, maybe the reason the Van der Sloots were at the police station the next morning, was to report a drowning. That was the first story that Joran told his frieds at school before being questioned by the police, “She drowned”…
Funny, that was what supposedly happened to DeVries, he drowned… and his body never, ever, ever surfaced.
In my view, whether Natalee got in the car willingly or not is irrelevant to everything.
Most of us believe that she was given a date-rape drug; Jacobs warned Dave Holloway to be careful of CnC’s precisely because they did drug the drinks.
(I wonder if an implied threat was intended, as in ‘Better be careful if you want to investigate anything on this island’?)
But not only is it impossible to determine, at this time, whether she got in the car willingly … the issue is what happened to her.
1006, please remember that while INITIALLY the idea of sex slavery might not have been involved (though it’s not impossible), my main thesis has been that it came up afterwards.
If there were a ‘rave’ party, was someone there who had ties to the drug lords?
If Natalee were taken to the van der Sloot house by J2K, and awoke from the date-rape drug before anyone expected (perhaps while the filming was going on, if it were going on), and somehow PvdS got drawn in (perhaps by a screaming Natalee?) … IF this scenario did happen, then would he be the one to figure out that Natalee would NEVER acquiesce, unlike the Aruban girls?
Of that I am totally convinced. Not the threat of beating or of death would cow Natalee.
So something had to be done with her (again, IF this thesis is correct).
PvdS’s trips to Venezuela (and to Colombia, according to some) have never been explained. Nor his need to visit Florida a few months (?) after Natalee vanished … can anyone believe his story that he had to go there because Joran wasn’t going to attend school? That is transparently nonsense.
So from what I can gather the general concensus is:
Natalee was not forced, threatened or coerced into getting into Deepaks car.
Most feel she thought she was going back to the hotel with Joran since she thought he was staying there.
Somewhere in Aruba the four stopped.
Somewhere in Aruba the drug lords took Natalee from the JK2’s.
Natalee could have been taken into a sex slave market.
Therefore; Natalee then could be alive somewhere on or off Aruba.
Well the plan was in motion, why would Deepak stay outside in the back of C&C’S, he said he had a headache but yet the music is blasting from his car. That’s make a lot of sense.
Regardless, I’m sure she didn’t like what was going on inside that car….porno videos’s and who knows what else. But Joran and the Kalpoes could tell us.
I believe the number of lies so far told by Joran is 23…there can only one truth…
Just keep your ideas and thoughts flowing..Beth appreciates our input..
SM:
“SM: Joran told her he was staying at the HI – Joran told her he’d give her a ride back to the hotel – Joran lied – Natalee thought she was getting a ride back to the hotel (klaasend)”
I cannot recall 100% but I am almost positive that Joran DOES NOT SAY in any of his declarations or his book; that he offered Natalee a “RIDE” back to her hotel.
“She wanted to see sharks” “See wanted to see my house” etc etc. Not I offered her a ride.
“I tried to carry her from the beach to the hotel; but not a ride from C and C’s to the hotel.”
Natalee says something to the effect; “it’s alright, then they will take me back to the hotel.” I take it that he offered a ride somewhere else before going to the hotel.
There is no proof that Natalee got in the car willingly or unwillingly, however based on her friends and family who have known her for her entire life, they said Natalee had never and would never get in the car with 3 strange men and ride off. One of her friends said she told them she was going back to the Holiday Inn with the other MB group up ahead. Joran taking her to a side bar after closing and get her a shot of rum151 has always been very suspicious. Some of the date rape drugs, give you a sense of well being or confusion even if you are in danger. They left in a mass chaotic exit. I also find it troubling that Bryan Reynolds said that Joran and the Kalpoes had been hanging out around the Holiday Inn that week. I believe the MB girls or just Natalee were being stalked by them all along and Joran injected himself into the group with his sociopathic personality as described by the FBI to pretend to be a friend for more sinister reasons. He also lied to her about who he was and his age, so to use false pretenses to get someone to go with you would be kidnapping to me.
Also never believe Natalee went to the beach unless it was when they took her to get rid of her. Joran has described lots of people on the beach, none have came forward, 3 fishermen saw noone matching their description or heard or seen Deepak’s car. No way do I believe Natalee ever asked to be left alone on a dark cold beach at 3 am to look at stars alone. I’ve believe Natalee was the victim of a sex crime, gone bad. Even if she were to pass out, still noone bothered to take her for medical help. There is noone who has seen or heard from Natalee since she was seen in that car with those 3. Noone just vanishes off the earth or off an island without a passport and personal belongings. She had no phone, no clothes, no money, no transportation, no food.
All the strange stuff only started when these 3 entered her life. They spent a week making up strange stuff up together along with Paulus. Why in the world would innocent people need to hire lawyers, get together to make up more lies or get their stories straight, frame 2 men for kidnapping and murder, and engage in the type of behaviour that this group has for over 2 years now? I don’t believe Natalee has been alive since the night she went missing.
Alana Jordan: (to question where, what time and
in what condition last saw Natalee) The last time I saw Natalee, we were leaving the club, and a friend of mine went back to the club because we were going to make sure that no one got left because we were leaving at closing. And we ran into her and asked her if she was Ok. And she said, “Yes” and indicated that she was going back to the hotel with some other Mountain Brook students.
Interviewer: Would you be surprised to hear that she went off with some guy? Would that shock you?
Alana Jordan: Yes. She’s not — there’s been a lot of allegations that she was a less than respectable girl, and that is completely false. That’s really why I wanted to come on this show, to just clarify that she’s a really good girl, a really smart girl, and that’s why this is such a shock to us. Interviewer: So, that wouldn’t ordinarily be her modus operandi, to go in a car with three guys? That wouldn’t have happened in your experience?
Alana Jordan: No.
Interviewer: And you know her very well?
Alana Jordan: I would say so, yes.
Katherine Weatherly: Well, Carlos and Charlie`s closed at 1:00 o`clock, and when it closed, everyone was getting in taxis at the same time and it was really chaotic. And I got in a taxi, and everyone just thought that everyone would get home Ok. There were so many people leaving at one time, it was just…
Holly Brown: It’s really easy for him to go on the air, and say what he wants, and what he thinks is going to get him out of trouble, with Natalee being unable to defend herself, and she can’t say anything about it.
Mary Conyers: (speaking of Joran’s characterization of Natalee’s behavior) Natalee is not ever, has never been, that type of person.
Ali Anderson: I think that all of us think that it could have just as well been us, pretty much every day.
Ruth McVay: I found it weird because he (Joran) mentioned earlier that no one went out on Sunday nights, that it was a bad night. And then he showed up at the place (Carlos ‘n Charlies).
Ruth McVay: (commenting on Natalee getting in the car) But, she had smarts and maturity. She knew better. Natalee would never take off with people we didn’t know. She was my most responsible friend ever.
Bryan Reynolds: There was almost a fight between my friend and him (Joran). I had to break them up. That’s when I got a good look at them.
Bryan Reynolds: (quoted in newspaper as saying) … (I) saw (Joran and the Kalpoe brothers) hanging out at the Holiday Inn
Bryan Reynolds: (quoted in newspaper as saying) …they (Joran and the Kalpoe brothers) were the first people (I) considered as potential suspects.
Bryan Reynolds: That was the first people (Joran and the Kalpoe brothers) who came to mind.
Bryan Reynolds: (quoted as saying) Van der Sloot got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar.
Bryan Reynolds: I broke it up. It was outside the Carlos ‘n Charlies, the second night we were there.
In addition to the chemically induced amnesia, Rohypnol often causes decreased blood pressure, drowsiness, visual disturbances, dizziness, confusion, gastrointestinal disturbances, and urinary retention. Users of the drug report effects similar to intoxication, yet claim that they wake up the next morning without a hangover.
.54..Sorry, meant to say, they can only be one truth
Why go to such extent to even lie about why you vaccum your car on the night Natalee disappeared?
June 10, 05
To your question whether I can remember the day when I was summoned to the police station at Bubali, I can say the following. Yes I remember that day.
You are telling to me that my car looked very clean on that day. About that I can state the following, I had vacuumed my car the previous day.
To your question as to why I had vacuumed my car the previous day, I can state the following. I thought my car was dirty on the inside there was a lot of sand.
To your question as to how dirty my car was on the inside, I can state the following. There was a lot of sand inside of the car.
To your question as to when I had been to the beach for the last time, I can state the following. I had been to a party on the beach about two or three weeks ago.
To your question as to where the sand came from the day in question that I vacuumed the car, I can state the following. The sand came from Joran, because he had almost fallen into the water and after that he had sat down in my car with sand on his shorts and on his legs.
To your question as to why I vacuumed the car on that Sunday in question, I can state the following. I thought it was dirty.
To your question as to why, after having driven in the car all that time, I chose that particular Sunday to vacuum my car, I can state the following. It is my car, and I can vacuum it when I want. I clean my car when I want to clean it.
June 11, 05 Deepak
On the way home I was bitten by ants in my car. I had told my brother that when we got back home, we should clean the car because if there were going to be girls in the car they would be bitten by ants too.
Satish June 11, 05
Before we left home, we vacuumed the car because there were a lot of ants in the car. I think that ants come into the car because the car is parked on our land it stands on grass. After we had cleaned the car, I had gotten dressed to go out.
Maggie:
I wish we had an expert to tell us how long it would take a drug, which ever drug you think her drink was spiked with, to enter into her system and give her a feeling like everything is okay, when it’s not.
I don’t mean to argue, but it doesn’t sound logical that she would drink a shot at the door on the way out, and before she even gets to the door looses all her senses about who she’s with or where she’s going.
You made a good point when you say that Joran had been hanging out at the hotel during the week. By doing so, he may have created a false sense of security with some of the girls, Natalee being one of them. You see a person enough times, you tend to let your guard down.
Whether it was expected, unusual, or whatever, Joran did show up at C & C’s and he danced with Natalee. He talked to her and supposedly did belly shots with her. It’s hard to believe that someone that you would be that intimate with, would have to force you into a car while offering to give you a ride back to the hotel… where both of you are, supposedly, staying.
I’m not saying that this was not the beginning of a kidnap, but I don’t believe that Natalee was FORCED to get into the car.
And, Maggie, really, as far as I’m concerned anyone can clean their car whenever they want. I lived on the Oregon coast for some time. Your car gets dirty constantly. Partyly from the sand, which is carried everywhere and partly because of the amount of salt in the air. Besides, if I were a drug dealer and someone called me to tell me about an overdose, I’d be cleaning my car out, too. Most people that suffer overdoses, get taken to the hospital… and depending on the circumstances, the police are called.
Unless, ofcourse, you’re Joran and Mr. Van der Sloot.
Don’t forget the part where Satish, the next morning asks, “How’s the girl?” If he were a part of what the Van der Sloots had planned for Natalee, he would have known how she was. He was out of the loop. Until Paulus decided he’d need a scape goat or two.
One more point… we know that the police had reported that Natalee’s body had been located and the Chicago Videos shows the body of a girl that looks like Natalee, especially in the bag.
If she died that first night or morning, how would they keep her from decomposing?
I really didn’t say anything about why someone cleans their car, although I do think it’s a lame excuse to say you cleaned your car for ants at midnight. I said why lie about the reason to clean it, Was it ants or was it sand? According to them Joran didn’t have shorts on the night he was with Natalee.
JQK’s papers state that he was no stranger to assault and that ectasy was his drug of choice. It’s about 15 minutes for Rohypnol. It would be easy to whisk someone off in the chaos when a place closes and people are everywhere. I’ve been to enough concerts etc. 3 men to 1 girl, not cool.Also read that Joran said he was a tourist staying at Holiday Inn. Perhaps Joran told her it was a taxi. Like 1006 said. I too remember that a girl said Joran pulled a knife on her. Who know’s what was going on in the car after Natalee got in. Always thought Deepak driving around twice was to see if anyone had alerted the cops to them.
I also remember Deepak’s statement where he says they went out and it was usually Joran who got the girls or Freddy. They go to motels and have sex in the same rooms. Looks like business as usual that night.
Although I have no clue why, because I see nothing charming about him at all. People like him are never happy. He leads 2 different lives, where he pretends to be normal and then the real him, the dark person. People who defend the behaviour just contribue to creating the “monster” Natalee had no problems in Aruba until they walked into the picture.
As for decomposing, I believe Natalee was gotten rid of within 24 hours, thus Paulus, no body no case.
1906,
#50
That would be me. I read every review I could come across, thinking that someone might mention something about birds or monkeys kept as pets at the place. (I think they have birds).
Wow, that goes back awhile. Maybe as far back as the girl in college who claimed to be a lesbian and a virgin, and was neither. My mind has always been a sponge, so if I read it, I remember it. I’ve not read all.
I entertained the idea that the party was held at the lighthouse restaurant, and the guest arrived by boat. I also entertained the idea that Natalee was held at the lighthouse.
Most of the reviews I read said the same thing. The food was so so; the waiters etc. were flee-bags (my own interpretation). I think they said slow and rude with hands extended, palm up.
I’ve decided that nothing happen at the lighthouse because Joran said they went there, and everything he says is not true. Everything the says is not true is true. Everything he said he did, he did not. Everything he said he did not do he did.
It’s like someone directing you to a good fishing hole. If they say turn right, turn left. If they say go far, go near. If they say go near, go far.
Take everything Joran has said and turn it 190 and you have the truth. Much like Bill Clinton.
Jerry
I think Natalee got into the car not knowing what was even going on…Date-rape-drug…she never ever left her friends…until Joran showed up..I have done this 20 times before…that tells me she didn’t really know what was happening to her…The sick perverts..rape American girls the last night of their stay..Natalee, knowing her background and character probably fought back….Something bad HAPPENED…SO TELL US SATISH
brie: I have only one small issue;
“she never ever left her friends”.
I believe her close circle of friends and roomates left HER at C and C’s around 11:00PM
We can’t rely on the conflicting stories of the J2Ks to build any cohesive theory on, in my opinion. There’s simply no way to decide from what we know whether Natalee “willingly” (whatever that means) got in the car.
What matters is what happened afterwards.
richard:
You got that right.
From the time they were driving around the parking lot until Joran and the Kalpoes got home;
Natalee went missing.
Four left Carlos and Charlies’
Joran made it home
Deepak made it home
Satish made it home
Natalee did NOT.
So JK2′S where is Natalee?
The other thing about Joran hanging around the hotel for a week or so … being familiar with him would make Natalee, or anyone, more likely to think “Oh, those two guys with him must be OK too, because he’s OK.”
This could be one argument in favor of the idea of a premeditated crime (such as abduction?) … that by becoming familiar with the MB kids (not to mention lying about his being a tourist from Holland), he would seem to be somewhat of a part of ‘their circle.’
Making it easier for the three to decoy her….
Damned Aruba ads are popping up all over;
Now they are on yahoo.http://www.aruba.com/testimonials/index.php
Read the 20 and 10 year testimonials.
But what do they give you if you are;
kidnapped, raped, murdered, made to disappear and then make the victims’ family feel responsible.
Sounds like GD and the AHATA are stuck on stupid.
They still don’t get it……
“”To honor their dedication to Aruba as their holiday destination, the government has implemented a Goodwill Ambassadors award designated to those who have visited the island for 20 consecutive years, and a Distinguished Guest award designated to those who have visited the island for 10 consecutive years.If you have been visiting Aruba for 10 years of more, you might be eligible for one of these awards!
Join the Aruba Community Forum and share your Aruba experience with others.”"
How can you share your experience if you are missing?
We shall see..we shall see…
Why can’t someone, just someone, tell the truth. I guess the pimp club has some kind of code-of unethics. Joran runs around that island like a nut and does whatever he wants. Because my Dad is a lawyer..yea, a shitty one at that! These guys have been getting away with the date-rape-drug and porno videoing for a long time. It all just really sucks!
The stinking, lying, raping, murdering perverts took Natalee’s life away. Someone worth their weight in gold. A promising future, a loving, caring Natalee. She just came for a good time and to celebrate her achievements. Posner is responsible for giving Joran access to anything he wanted and he knew he was underage. What allegiance does he have to Paulus, as if we didn’t know! Paulus, a lawyer less, allowed his son to drink, gamble and be a part of perversion…And don’t tell me Joran ever had to ask for permission, Paulus doesn’t even know if or when he goes to school. And then sends him off to college with a portable cd and porno tapes to keep him awake in class.
Natalee got involved into a hornet’s nest, little did she know! Word travels fast on a island, a target for a trusting individual along with a drug , made things easy.
There should be no peace in life for those that harmed Natalee.
…1906…they are using prior tourists to back up tourism…wanting the American money to return..
well, I can only say I hope American’s are aware of what happened to Natalee and choose not to go! Tourism is their livelihood, find Justice for Natalee and jail your criminals. Then you can advertise! Until then, it’s a stinky place to go!
I tend to believe Deepak when he says Joran or Freddy got the girls when they went out and that they have all been in a room at the same time having sex with tourist girls. I really don’t see him admitting that if it weren’t true. However I don’t believe when Joran said he had never seen Deepak or Satish with a girl.
Rewatched some of Beth returns to Aruba. She said she left the VDS’s believing 100% that Paulus knows what happened to Natalee. Greta brought up twice about Anita describing graphic sexual stuff and she wanted to crawl under the table. She said she looked at Beth and couldn’t believe how stoic she remained while hearing it.
Deepak and Satish neither one admit to being at the VDS’s previous to Beth showing up that night. However the license plate was wrote down from Deepak’s car parked at the VDS’s that night. By the time Beth and company arrived it was gone. Paulus came to the door from sleeping according to him carrying his cellphone and wouldn’t you know he needed it and called Joran. Paulus told Beth and company that Joran was at the Wyndam playing a texas hold em tournament. Everyone left the house that night to go look. Why? Remember Paulus the night before he said he had to get home because the other 2 sons were coming home or he had to pick them up and he didn’t like them home alone. On that night, he doesn’t mention the sons or them being alone for over and hour. It was important to get all of them away from the house for a bit. Then Joran says he’s home now. Beth said neither were dressed for a casino, Both in shorts and looked dirty. Where was Satish at this time? No time line for Satish. No doubt in my mind they know what happened to Natalee. Hours later Beth and Jug show up at the Police station to give a statement and there is Deepak’s car out back, yet Deepak says he went home after leaving the Van Der Sloots. Beth waited and waited and then she was told they didn’t need her statement, when she left Deepak’s car was still out back. Deepak states he wasn’t questioned till evening.
Jacob and Straten believe the 3 and their story yet, they watch the tape to see Natalee don’t return, Straten says he believes Natalee is dead based on what he’s seen. What did he see? Arrested 2 black security guards for kidnapping and murder. However when Beth makes it known she watched the tape , they had to turn the 2 guards loose, Both had alibis that checked out and never knew Natalee. Where did that evidence go? Why were they sending the parents out to crackhouses if they believed the story of the 3? The tips were just people wanting money and leading them on wild goose chases backed by none other JR, and why was she in the investigation? Arlene Shippers was a friend of Paulus’s, worked with him and Guido is her cousin, yet she had police files and was out every night making up more stories.
Is there one person in the Aruban govt. that knows what justice is? Is there one who can see what a big joke this has been? There is so many conflicts of interest and so many lies, not just on the suspects parts, but the people in place who are suppose to be there for victims. Why is it suspected one commited heavy battery against Natalee? Aruba has never had the intention of solving this case. It has been to lie, delay, stall, drag it out, make the victims look like as bad as possible, until people got sick of it and turned away. Again, they would get away with another travesty. They didn’t know the strength of a mother and father who miss their beautiful daughter or people on a blog who have kept Natalee’s story out there. Natalee was not just a victim of those 4 and yes I do believe Paulus knows, she’s been the victim of the entire govt and the police who were suppose to be there to protect her. What parent in their right mind would send their daughter there now? The only one who has stood up for justice for Natalee in Aruba has been Jossy Mansur and they’ve constantly tried to villify him also. If they were truly interested in Justice for Natalee, they would’ve given this case to Interpol, FBI, Scotland Yard, anyone but themselves.
Well said, Maggie.
But let’s look at one portion of your comment – that being the wild goose chase. You have people calling in with wild stories of Natalee being in Crack houses. You have a witness (the Gardner) that says that he saw their car at the pond behind the Holiday Inn. You have a false witness saying that he saw them at the racquet club. You have witnesses saying they see her at the same time other witnesses see her someplace else. The rat race was nothing more than to distract the attention, not of the police, but of the family.
Think about this: The night the pond by the Holiday Inn, there was yet another festival at the rocks… the one where the island’s air is FULL of smoke. Why would they choose that night to work through the night while the family stood by watching and praying? Maybe they didn’t want the Holloways venturing too far, or seeing what it is that goes on at these festivals.
Trust me… Every Arawak knew what was going to happen to Natalee the moment that the news came out about her being kidnapped. That was why it was important to know if the fisherman, that reported the cage missing, reported it missing before or after Natalee being reported missing. It was reported very early in the morning the same morning that she went missing… therefore, many people find it to be reliable that a white Suzuki truck had stolen the fisherman’s trap.
The witness that said that she saw three men lifting a body into the back of a white truck, I believe was an employee at either the Holiday Inn or the Marriott. Again… these stories match up. So many people find them reliable.
There is nothing that is ever going to make any sense until you start identifying who is and who is not an Arawak and find eyewitness accounts that make sense with the other evidence that you do have, that’s reliable.
Charles Croes, I believe is the man that was responsible for keeping the family in a state of chaos and confusion. I believe that Renfro works for him and he sent her to meet up with Beth as soon as he got word that she was there. Renfro and Charles Croes are both Arawak Indians, both genetically and religiously. They both knew what the purpose of kidnapping Natalee was, in fact, I believe probably more than half the island knew. That’s why there was so little cooperation. No one crosses the Arawak Nation and if they do…
Pitbull – The bouncer for the club that JK2 stopped at to pick something up.
One more point, Ecstacy is not a rape drug… it is not a downer that will put you in a state of stupor, or make you pass out so someone can rape you without your knowledge. Rather, it is an upper, cocaine based, that makes it difficult to sleep.
It is used to enhance sex but is rarely used as a date rape drug. The talk about the Islanders having group sex with American girls, happens. It happens in this country, as well. But, in most cases, as far as I’m aware, it is consentual. And, yes, Ecstasy is used to increase energy. The same thing happens in Jamaica, all the time, as well. Not all men and women have the same morals as Natalee.
November 1 – Where are the Dutch?
Queen Bea:
We’re waiting…
1906:
Wasn’t it you that said that there was a priest that either died or was killed shortly after Natalee disappeared? If so, do you have a picture of him?
Thanks,
Patti
patti:
Yes I do and others. Here you are….
It was Fr. Montoya;
Death was attributed to a robbery.
It was either in Seveneta or San Nicolas.
Scroll down half way here
http://arubassilence.bravehost.com/hmmmm.html
Something different to get Joran off the hook.
http://scrux.com/natalee/crackhousetheory.htm
Maggie (#70) — I remember that Deepak also said in one of his depositions that there had been group sex in hotel rooms. That is, several couples were engaged in sex in the same room at the same time.
As for the “testimonials” that Aruba seeks, some people will say anything if given the proper financial incentives. Just look at all the celebrity endorsement ads on TV.
But if we keep the pressure on, those testimonials will have little or no credibility.
From what I understand, even Arubans are decrying the way the island has gone to the dogs over the last several years … and even before Natalee went there.
I have been following this case since it started, but I don’t post often. Do people here think it will ever be solved? I really was hoping someone would have talked by now.
jenn: No.
Read #26
Just my opinion: “Now Aruba how do you tell the world that an American tourist was kidnapped and raped by a bunch of punks and then killed by the punks’ girlfriends at some prominent Dutch Nataional’s home?”
OLD NEWS BUT WORTH REPEATING AND READING COMPLETE LINK
Innocent 16 yr old female raped by man and then by schoolmates:
word has come to the paper that a group of males student aged from the same school as the victem had been loitering around .
this crime is considered to be punishable and condemming by law.
thee innocent 16 yr old Virgen was accosted by many from within her own class and school.
This was a forced act of violence agaisnt this child and she was raped anally and vaginally.
What makes this crime more sickening is that many of the male students used thier cameras on thier cellphones to record the act.
By midday the photos were circulated to other males via cellphones.
The family of the girl wishing to protect her is not wanting to go to the polis in order to protect her identity further and prevent her from bieng marked as a raped female within the community. She has been thru a horrific ordeal and they dont wish to upset her more. They will seek professional help for her but are fearing to go to the polis.
the photos continue to be distributed via MMS now more than ever diario has found out.
The family upon learning this has decided the girl will not return to school in august and instead they are looking to send her off the island with other family abroad.
Diario is supplicating to the family to protect the girl and press charges annonymously so that these group will not get away with this crime so that they may be brought to justice and not have a chance to do this to another female.
The author of the article states he cannot believe what is happening to the islands youth today. He says the goverment and the judicial branches of Arube must take a firm stance against this behavior, and prosecute these thugs.
In another case he sites that a roaming group of youngsters have terrorised an entire area in Cas Palamos. In that case polis did nothing to disband this disruptive group of young males.
In yet another case last night polis did stop a group of youngsters who were out of control after leaving a concert for the band called of the highway in area of Boegoereio. while awaiting the arrival of more polis to the scene the youths scattered in different direction.
Diario is asking that the photos circulating in JPG form via MMs cellul;ar co be removed from airwaves.If not they risk falling as accomplices to the actions of these rapists.
Read on Does not sound like one safe happy island that I would want my kids to visit…………………….
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=printpage;topic=188.0
I have always been fascinated by “Shango’s Riddle” printed in the back of Dave’s book..did anyone ever come up with who this person might have been? They obviously knew an awful lot about what happened. If a profile of this individual could be formed from their writings it might be helpful.
KayJay
kayjay:
I thought for a while it could have been
Robert Wayne Bensen. He worked at a motorcycle shop where the police brought their cycles and where Deepak had some work done on his taxi.
http://arubassilence.bravehost.com/hmmmm.html
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/11/19/from-diario-robert-wayne-benson-found-dead-in-aruba/
This says it all..
Interviewer: The only thing you three really agree on 100% is that YOU WERE THE LAST PERSON TO BE WITH NATALEE.
Joran van der Sloot: Yes.
Interviewer: Doesn’t put you in a good position.
Joran van der Sloot: No, it doesn’t
Been watching some of that story about the Illinois cop and his missing wife since Sunday.
Being that he is a cop, the first thing they did was turn the investigation over to the Illinois State Police to avoid a conflict of interest having local police investigate. That proves to me these people truly are interested in the truth and justice.
Second the cop, not offically named a suspect, but I am sure he is there main target due to his behaviour plus his 3rd wife drowned in a bathtub with no water in it, yet her hair was wet. Her sister said no way would a healthy woman like that drown because she wouldn’t even fit laying down in the tub. She had just divorced him. His new missing wife was divorcing him, 30 years younger than him, and even odder, they named their baby Laci and their last name is Peterson.
Third this guy has been hiding out in the house, came to the door in sunglasses when a reporter knocked and closed the door saying he thought it was the pizza man. Then he came out with an NYPD baseball cap on and sunglasses and a bandana to hide his face and was walking around. Does this sound like a innocent man? Why isn’t he out looking for her? Why the lies he has told? Why running and hiding from everyone. I would be out in the publice begging and looking everywhere if it was my spouse and I was innocent.
Just like in Aruba, Those 3 being the last people seen with Natalee, not one of them lifted a finger to look for Natalee, while everyone else was they were all gathering at Paulus’s time and time again making up stories. None wanted to face a camera, Paulus was always hiding in bushes or running down alleys to get away and making up more lies.
I have more faith in Illinois though. At least they turned it over to the State Police. There was reports when he was dating his current wife she was 17 and the cops were all having a field day joking with him running around behind his wife’s back with a 17 year old girl.
btw Beth also said security guards at the Wyndham that night said Joran was never there gambling that night. It was just a wild goose chase Paulus led them on to get them away from the house. Probably to remove Natalee’s body from the house.
Joran is guilty…plain and simple…it always comes back to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
81. 10061906
Thanks for the links..it could well have been.
I sure hope that one day those perverted, evil, excuses for human beings get what they truly deserve. The Dutch need to get on the ball..their image is fast failing in my eyes…I am already boycotting their foodstuff in the market.
Natalee got publicity a few times again today. Tim Miller is heading to Illinois to help look for the missing officer’s wife. Her sister called I think he said, but they mentioned twice that Tim Miller and his group are the ones who went to Aruba searching for Natalee Holloway.
_____________________
SM: Maggie – where did you hear that? I’ve been following this case pretty closely and was hoping they would request TES. Great news if it’s true. (klaasend)
It was on Fox news this afternoon Klaas. They had Tim on by phone.
_________________
SM: That’s excellent news! Thanks! (klaasend)
That is excellent news Klaas, I fear it’s not going to be good news for this family based on her husbands past history, plus she wrote an email to a friend that has came out, talking about how he was abusive and controling and to pray for her. The poor girl sure has handled a lot for her age. She lost a little sister in a house fire, another one to SIDS, it is said the mother never recovered from that, she ran away when Stacy was 15, said she was going to church and disappeared. Last year her 29 year old sister died of cancer. This poor family has endured so much and now with the thought of Stacy being gone too.
JUST RAMBLING ON………
Do we know much about “Crazy Steph” and why they call her “CRAZY”?
She seems to get around like a box of Cracker Jacks.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1306457897054348724oHDwXC
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1306584283054348724HMLSdI
It looks like it was taken in Deepak’s car. The upholstery matches
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1306582486054348724hIKuWz
Was taken in the back seat.
Which means that Crazy Steph, Freddie, Deepak and Joran were all together that particular night.
So it seems as if Deepak’s car IS used for a taxi and he is Joran’s slave.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=33218736&size=o
Photo was uploaded in August 11, 2005. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Joran in prison when this photo was posted?
She manages to be seen with the “pimps” quite a lot.
Could she be one of the she pimps?
How many other females hang around with this group.
Could the pimps be selling them off to male Tourists?
Looks a little like Satish No????
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joranvandersloot/47503064/
It seems they both like them young.
Obvious that Keon knows Freddie:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joranvandersloot/37519391/
You can see how Joran Knows Sanders and in turn knows Koen.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joranvandersloot/34662530/
sorry if it posted twice.
Did not show up the first time
Just wondering … is Nelson Oduber related to Adolf Hitler? Maybe we ought to summon him to the United States for questioning.
If the Dutch were serious about solving this case, they would investigate Paulus and Straten’s connection right off along with all the other conflicts of interest in this case, the statements that Straten and Jacobs made and their more than weird behaviour.
I believe 100 % Joran was involved in Natalee’s disappearance. Kinda behaving like that cop in Illinois. Hiding out and lying. The statements they both make have no common sense. For his statement that Natalee chose to stay on a cold dark beach at 3am alone in a foreign country, proves he’s avoiding where her really took and what he did. No way would a female choose to do that. Also said he picked her up and she got mad and wanted to be put down. Here is 3 fisherman on the beach that night, their shoes, noone found them, they never heard or seen Deepak’s car come to the beach twice. Never heard Natalee saying put me down or seen her walking around or Joran. Not one person has come forward to see them at the beach. And No way would Natalee leave the loving family and friends she had voluntarily and not contact them or stay on a beach alone. It only gets weird when those 3 arrive. They kept getting together and meeting at Paulus’s for a reason. Not only do they lie about the night Natalee went missing, but they lie about the next night as well.
Devil’s in the details they say, that’s why when they give details they are always contradicting someone else or themselves, because they are lies and not the truth. Sometimes they use I forgot, I don’t recall, can’t remmember to avoid telling the true details. Much like that cop that said they had a happy marriage, but then went on to say his wife went off with another man for a vacation.
The hug above from Oduber says it all. He could care less about tourists or victims, all he wants is the money.
Another testimonial by a satisfied tourist:::
Funny how Arubians say the Island is so safe and things like that usually never happen. The Island is not safe. We traveled there a few years ago and we were robbed up by the lighthouse. We went to the police and they just kind of laughed alittle and said it happens all the time. We also say another couple in there the same time and they were also robbed by the beach, all of there things and clothes. If you notice the cops have alot of jewelry on and have alot of other things. Have a feeling they might even be a little part of it all. Safe no way, pretty much ran to my plane. Even the taxi services gave us a hassel about wanting more money at the airport. My husband told him off and we ran to the plane and I will never go back. Just remember Aruba is not a safe place no matter what they say.
So where did Joran come up with all this money he supposedly won if he wasn’t at the casino. That is suspicious. Maybe he lied about that too. There’s an element of truth out there somewhere.
Not only did they lie over and over again, two innocent people may have gone to prison. If it hadn’t of been for Beth they would of been in a heap of trouble. And the perps including Paulus wuld of let it happen. So another person’s life is of no value to them.
I agree, Maggie. The number of different stories that J2K have put out there, and the give-and-take-back statements that Aruba has consistently put out there, make it obvious to any third grader that there is an extensive cover-up.
Even Arubans must know it.
So the point (to me) is … what is going on in Aruba that the Dutch are unwilling to have revealed to the world?
Only one answer makes sense to me: that Natalee was handed over or somehow ensnared to a drug trafficking/arms trafficking/human trafficking ring. It’s been shown that they all go together.
And some people are paid off bigtime….
Not that our government seems to care.
Richard, I think the cover up started by Paulus who clearly knew his son had done something terrible. They meet at Paulus’s house, Paulus is on the pc looking up drugs and alcohol. Paulus is sending the cops away from the house first night they show up. Paulus is coaching the 3, Paulus is caught in his lies and becomes evasive with his answers. Paulus is getting them lawyers.
The next person was Straten, a long time family friend and according to Helen Lejuez was involved in a cover up before. Just read his statements he gave at the first of this and look at the behaviour, then his pal Jacobs.
Clearly Oduber wanted to save tourism along with the AHATA and they put out all kinds of lies not only about the victims, but about the investigation. Also placing people with conflicts of interest out to speak about it, IE. Arlene Shippers.
Working together for years, who knows what these people have on each other because clearly they are all a dishonest bunch. I don’t think they ever thought this would get so big and it would be under the rug in a few days. What they didn’t count on was Beth and Dave and their mission to seek Justice for Natalee.
This is a place just waiting for the next “Natalee” story to happen, nothing’s changed and rather then solve or try to seek justice for a victim, they would rather keep shooting themselves in the foot with their big lies and smearing victims. Look what it’s cost them so far, they never learn.
The behaviour of these 4 is beyond disgusting. They have done everything to throw an entire investigation off for the past 2 years, because they know the truth lies right at their front doors what happened to Natalee. Joran knows, Deepak knows, Satish knows and Paulus knows why Natalee has never been seen since leaving Carlos n Charlies. There was no beach story, there was no Hitler story or, slaves in Alabama story or sharks. It only gets weird when they enter the picture, until then Natalee and her friends were A-ok. Joran was the one showing up where they were, not vice versa. I do believe he is a sociopath, he has no feelings for anyone or anything. He lives a pretend life for the public of being normal, but don’t all sociopaths. That’s how they find their victims.
3 men and a girl go out and all make it back, but the girl, statistics aren’t favorable for the girl to have survived and aren’t looking favorable that those 3 are just innocent bystanders.
And we keep buying crap from CHINA>
Maybe Joran has contacts?????
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071107/ap_on_he_me/toys_date_rape_drug
Agreed again, Maggie. My only point (and everyone is tired of hearing it by now) is that I think the cover-up has become so pervasive, and so intense, that it practically cries to the world that something bigger than these few scum is involved.
Something that would really DESTROY Aruba’s tourism economy if known … and it’s clear to all of us that if Aruba did take effective action against these scum, its reputation would only improve.
So what is the dark secret?
You know what I think. Might be wrong, of course; let’s hope we get answers.
What is interesting to note; just what kind of an impact Natalee’s case has had; it is 30 months since she “disappeared” and still all you have to type in is “NATA” and you get 1,200,000
references to Natalee Holloway on the internet.
99
Pardon me: it is up to 2,910,000 references to Natalee
The ? I have is what about the money Joran bragged about…if he wasn’t gambling where did it come from…did he tell us something or was it another lie….I have to agree with Richard that the reason for cover-up could really effect tourism…but then we have the Chicago pictures…could that of all been a hoax to detract from the case…if so who was that! Talk about major cover-up, they all went to alot of trouble and why? Years and years of living the life of being indecent and corruption. Aruba maybe starting to get a grip and restore their island, but it never be the same until you find and demand justice for Natalee….I still think Posner had something to do with the disappearance of Natalee…the Dutch can also start there…why is he there? He’s a criminal and why did he and how choose Aruba! Paulus, no doubt!! The corruption in the Dutch justice department…Hey Queen Bea, you haven’t been doing your job!!!
I know human trafficking is a problem, but I haven’t seen anything in Natalee’s case that makes me believe it has anything to do with human trafficking.
I know some connected with Aruba put out all kinds of theories like that, Natalee ran away, and Natalee was pregnant and ran away simply to take the focus off of the suspects and blame the victim.
In lies there is some truth. I do believe they did this over 20 times and this one went bad. Much like a drunk driver who may get in his car and drive many times and never have a problem, and then one day it does. They have Natalee unconscious at times and passing out, hitting her head. Paulus looking up drugs, alcohol and lawyers. Not just the night Natalee disappeared did they engage in suspicious, deceitful behaviour, but the next day and night also.
Other American males have disappeared in Aruba and it’s been the same treatment and answers about their disappearance. They just didn’t get the same publicity. Thanks to Beth and Dave they have kept this story out there.
Karin Janssen according to Beth said this was being investigated as a sex crime. Fondling someone who is passing out off and on would be rape in my book. Especially after all the sexual stuff he admitted too. He soon changed that though after he was advised that would mean rape. He read the internet. It was said his hobby was criminal law. I remember when Joran said his father has a bad memory, tell me that wasn’t rehearsed. His father could remember in graphic detail what Joran said happened that night(because he helped make it up), but he can’t remember if Joran went to school the next day. The reason none of their stories match is because what they said didn’t happen, in order for their stories to match, they would have to tell the truth and it would incriminate them. That was their plan.
Natalee was never seen again after being in their company by anyone.
As for Posner, he is probably living the same “honest” life in Aruba that he lived here. Good place to do it. Laws there only apply to a few unfortunate ones. Paulus took his father out gambling and drinking underage and went home(if he even did) and left him to keep doing so. Paulus is shown to be lying in his police statements and interviews. Yet, he gets a job as a lawyer and he was out breaking the laws. Go figure.
oops ^ Paulus took his son, not father..
You’re right in that, as far as I know, we have no “evidence” that Natalee was taken off Aruba alive. But what kind of evidence could there be, and who would provide it?
I realize that saying there’s no evidence disproving something is not at all a reason to think it’s true.
My only point is: I find it impossible to believe that Aruba has sustained the cover-up for two and a half years without something very big being involved.
We know that Paulus and the three stooges have lied enough, from day one, to make clear that they are involved. But that doesn’t explain Aruba’s treatment of the case and of the family.
So again … I can’t prove my idea that Natalee was trafficked, a la Amy Bradley, nor would it mean that she was necessarily still alive.
And if the water search is ever carried out, and her body is found in the area that Art Wood and Tim Miller believe it is, then clearly I’m wrong.
But until then … I don’t think Aruba would have gone to the lengths it has to protect these few people. And none of us can doubt, I think, that the cover-up is sweeping and calculated.
So what kind of crime would justify it, especially given that the single best thing Aruba could do for its tourist economy would be to solve the crime and punish those responsible?
Trafficking is the only thing that I can come up with. I may well be wrong; let’s hope we find out.
richard:
Read Beth’s book… You may come up with some reasons why the cover up; and especially by the AHATA.
Until then……………..
I find it an interesting coincidence that Natalee and “Crazy Steph” have the same taste in ear rings. It would appear that Crazy Steph is wearing the same style ear rings that Natalee wore the night she disappeared.
..1906…where can we see the earrings…Thanks
Still curious about Joran and his 5 figure win at the casino when he wasn’t even there. And curious enough it was immediately after Natalee disappeared..what better excuse than to use a casino…could it of been a taping of Natalee sold…to guess who? A specialty in the game room. Better known as a place of entertainment for his South American frequents…or a combination of being video taped in the hotel room and a sexual porno follow-up…compliments of Freddy…
The minds of some of the people in Aruba are poison and who are they using to supply their filth..porno and money.
The Dutch have to come up with something soon along with TES and the water search. Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes walk around everyday and feel free…Natalee’s family unfortunately suffers the burden of Natalee’s disappearance everyday. And so do we………..!
Joran is a fatal mistake and his parents are responsible for his actions…however, maybe him being permitted to act as adult and did so…would justify his actions as being an adult and therefore would allow the questioning of him not as a minor. And no documents should of been destroyed.
There wasn’t anyone to handle the investigation of Natalee, especially when Beth and Dave showed up…little did they know….we just hide it all and go on from there….this time it didn’t work that way…..so we had to pretend to do an investigation..the FBI was there and they could of solved the case…tourism say no, no, no. That was the biggest mistake Aruba ever made. Now look where their at…all because an untreated physcho was given unlimited privileges
The Queen could probably oversee and make a decision as to extraditing Joran to the US….I would think she would want to do that and bring all this to an end…he is a problem for Aruba, he is problem for the Netherlands and he is a problem for the US..he’s sick and somebody better do something about it…he is also DEFINITELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DISAPPEARANCE OF NATALEE…..why does anyone want to protect this monster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think, my own thoughts, that Beth believes Natalee is in the sea..she said she doesn’t believe Natalee is on this earth..the best way to get rid of someone and remove all DNA would be in salt water..the sea..they may have thrown her in the basin at first but afterwards buried her at sea….Joran did not do this without the help of Paulus and others.
Just how many ghosts have these guys seen so far…it will haunt you forever!!
To steal one of Wendy Murphy’s lines, If it walks and quacks like a duck, it’s a damn duck.
Paulus led people away from his house for a reason and pretended he just woke up carrying his cellphone. When someone came and wrote Deepak’s license number down from the SLoots. The car wasn’t there when Beth and company arrived. In fact, they may have been in the process of getting rid of Natalee and the whole reason to get everyone away from the house was to buy more time for Joran, Deepak and Satish to do so.
They went out looking for over an hour. Paulus calls Joran and tells the others, he’s home now. Don’t believe that Paulus had any clue Beth and company would arrive so fast via commercial airlines.
Sick, heartless people let a family continue to suffer and worry for over 2 and a half years, when they know all the answers. If it wasn’t for bacteria, some people would have no culture.