If you liked this post, you may also like these:

  • Aruba, an island in Distress: Surrounded by Uncertainty, Cover Up and Mystery
  • Essence de Aruba, What is the Smell?
  • More Human Bones Found in Aruba in October? … “One Boney Island”
  • This Can’t Be Good For Tourism, Where’s Natalee Holloway
  • One Happy Island … Man caught with 5 kilos of Cocaine in Aruba




  • Comments

    308 Responses to “Aruba: One Sad Island”

    1. JusticeforNatalee on January 10th, 2007 11:50 am

      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

      Geez–What part about that don’t you understand, Aruba?!

      BTW–Your cover is blown, Aruba. Bigtime.

    2. Minnesota Dad on January 10th, 2007 11:57 am

      Any symbolism with the ‘shoe’ in this cartoon?

      Whose shoe is that supposed to be? md

    3. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 12:15 pm

      Well at least others are starting to realize you can perfume that pig, but I like the one about putting lipstick on a pig, too.

      The logo could be a big fat stinkin pig with lipstick
      Now just for the slogan…

    4. Richard on January 10th, 2007 12:33 pm

      The appropriate logo for Aruba would have to have some visual reference to a sewer, probably with lots of contaminated syringes (to represent the drug trade). If you can work in trash in and on the beach, so much the better. Not to mention people keeling over in C&Cs, the casinos, bars, etc.

      “Aruba … the land that justice forgot.”

    5. blablabla on January 10th, 2007 12:44 pm

      thank god nothing bad ever happenes here…
      why do you people have such a grudge on aruba
      be willing to bet there is much much more to this story

    6. vicki on January 10th, 2007 12:46 pm

      How about ONE DISGUSTING ISLAND, or ONE PATHETIC ISLAND…ONE DEMENTED ISLAND….oh i could keep going….

    7. vicki on January 10th, 2007 12:48 pm

      has anyone heard from carpe????I hope hes okay!

    8. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 12:49 pm

      How is 1906 and where is Carpe?

    9. Molly on January 10th, 2007 12:50 pm

      It will be surprising who all is connected with this Aruba story. Connections probably run all the way to Boston and New York, cities don’t mind having tourist conventions with Aruba included.

      Great cartoon. Aruba rebuilds and thing still fall apart.

      molly (in Houston)

    10. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 1:03 pm

      Island from Hell

    11. vicki on January 10th, 2007 1:22 pm

      How about ONE PERVERTED ISLAND…ONE LYING ISLAND..ONE UNSAFE ISLAND..You know there is a saying”we hear what we want to hear and disregard the rest….so how about “ONE STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND ISLAND”

    12. Crioyo on January 10th, 2007 1:34 pm

      2.

      Dicon boso ta core bai? Boso bin yudami!
      Why are you people running away? Y’all come help me!

      The shoe is supposed to be people running away i guess.

      ________________

      SM:   Crioyo – I just read in Amigoe that the Soul Beach Festival will NOT be returning to Aruba this year.   Have you heard the same?   I believe the article states it will be held on another Caribbean island. (klaasend)

    13. vicki on January 10th, 2007 1:39 pm

      ONE DEMONIC ISLAND….ONE LOST ISLAND…

    14. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 1:58 pm

      The island hell won’t have

      Caution: you are about to enter
      Pigs Island

    15. Patti on January 10th, 2007 2:10 pm

      …I just can’t figure out why Oduber insists that we keep replacing this sign….

      those monkeys keep knocking it down….

      Besides, he’s not fooling anyone………….

      “Somebody get me the ladder! You know the rules:

      We must keep up our appearances for those that can read!

      The rest of them? Well, they know they’re not happy.”

    16. msmarple on January 10th, 2007 2:18 pm

      Once Happy Island.
      One Crappy Island.
      FUBARUBA!

      (Someone uses “Once a Happy Island” as their sig line.)

      Crioyo – Thanks for translating the caption. Think you’re right about the outbound shoes.

      2006: 13 murders in Aruba that we know of. Almost triple the homicide rate for the U.S.A. See page 16 of the Murder & Crime thread.

    17. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 2:28 pm

      I think that could be Ruebens shoe.

    18. Patti on January 10th, 2007 2:51 pm

      Wow!!! Did you see that?

      Cioyo… you need to report another siting…

      Van der Sloot just drank his Orange Juice and

      ran through the airport knocking down our new sign!

      That guy is amazing… he broke EVERY letter!

      (Hey Crioyo! Just kidding ~~~~ Smiles at ya)

    19. FL on January 10th, 2007 2:58 pm

      @msmarple: New Orleans is a very peaceful place to live http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/01/09/new.orleans.ap/index.html

    20. Freebrid on January 10th, 2007 3:19 pm

      “Aruba the only Island where you can drug, kidnap, rape, murder, dig your own grave and dig yourself back up again! That’s what you call one crazy Island!!

    21. Mere on January 10th, 2007 3:22 pm

      Re: #19….Fl…New Orleans is not a peaceful place to live and the citizens who want peace are in the face of the politicians fighting for it….that is not happening in Aruba.

    22. MF on January 10th, 2007 3:26 pm

      The number of murder cases in 2006 for Aruba is 6:
      January 2006: A.P.
      April 2006: D.D. and R.C.
      June 2006: I.R. and F.D.
      December 2006: M. mcA. (will be tried as accidental death)

      All those who committed them are in detention already sentenced or awaiting trial.

      You are right Klaasend, the Soul Beach Festival has been moved to the Dutch island of Sint Maarten, eventhough it attracted a large group of tourists and locals, it did not generate profits for the island. The organization only required almost over 100 complimentary rooms in different hotels. This was announced a couple of months ago.

    23. Patti on January 10th, 2007 3:27 pm

      Personally, I think the caption that Crioyo just gave is the best!

      After the pimps took the “happy” out of the island in 2005,
      Oduber is left to pick up the pieces.

      He cries, “Dicon boso ta core bai? Boso bin yudami!”

      And, then… changes into his military suit…

      What the !?!?!?!?!?!?

    24. Patti on January 10th, 2007 3:44 pm

      Hey Oduber:

      Take a hint from New Orleans! If you were going to call
      your militants, you should have done it sooner…

      Too late now

      Whatsha gonna do Bad Boy?

    25. Mere on January 10th, 2007 3:55 pm

      #22…MF…I hope that I can copy and paste the 2006
      Murders and Crime in Aruba…lets try…this information is
      available on this site along with much more information:

      Note: we believe there were 13 murders that we know of, on Aruba, in 2006. The dates of those included in this count are in red font.

      01/06/2006 – “An American couple is raging on Aruba. The couple was robbed yesterday … The Americans victim had become of a overval, where the robbers thousand dollars, credit card and the drivers license of the man buitmaakten. The victims were treated brutally with violence and incurred thereby light wounds.”
      Amigoe.com 01/06/2006
      Posted 9/14/2006 at M&C thread by msmarple, credit BFN

      * * *
      01/06/2006 – “A report which is circulating in Holland caught Diario’s attention, related to a declaration from the High Command of the police in Utrecht. Among other things, it is mentioned that with suicide cases, it is desired for all these cases, that DNA tests be conducted on the bodies.
      “Two unsolved cases were illustrated, in the first instance the victim committed suicide but it resulted later after the test, that this was not the case.”
      Diario 01/06/2006
      Posted 08/14/2006 at M&C by msmarple; from LCD

      * * *
      01/12/2006 – Date of message board post: ” … there was a couple mugged outside of our resort while we were there …” They apparently were staying at Mill Inn Resort.
      http://tinyurl.com/t6ujk
      Posted 11/16/2006 at M&C by bleachedblack

      * * *
      01/23/2006 – Man found dead on boat near the Marriott.
      From Bon Dia 2006 “Year in Review” issue: http://tinyurl.com/y2efz2

      * * *
      01/23/2006 – From a message board post dated 02/02/2006: “On the third night (still with many of the problems unresolved) the villa was broken into while we were sleeping. The thieves were actually in two of our bedrooms while we were asleep!!! We lost everything that was not in the safe in a different bedroom … ” They were staying at Villa Alexandra.
      http://tinyurl.com/y36nhu
      Posted 11/01/2006 at M&C by bleachedblack

      * * *
      02/12/2006 – Alberto Augusto Peral (Peralta?) apparently killed by a gang.
      From Bon Dia 2006 “Year in Review” issue: http://tinyurl.com/y2efz2

      * * *
      03/20/2006 – The ship Rachel S arrived in Aruba the Sunday of Carnaval Grandi with a dead person, Bernard Ramsaran, on board, and a local autopsy determined that the man died of natural causes (heart failure). However, an autopsy conducted in his country of Trinidad – Tobago disclosed that he died of traumatic asphyxia; e.g. strangled and choked. The body had visible marks of violence. As Diario asks, how did Aruba miss this one? (Interpol is investigating as a High Seas case.)
      Diario
      Posted 8/28/2006 at M&C by msmarple, from Getagrip. Update posted 9/13/2006 by Anna. Also 9/13 by Appeals

      * * *
      03/??/2006 – American tourist robbed and beaten in an alley in San Nicolas.
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      03/??/2006 – Dave Billy Aubert, 20, a local, killed in a hit & run.
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      04/05/2006 – Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan, found on/in Guadirikiri cave. His body was mutilated, crucified, and set on fire. Death initially ruled a suicide and/or overdose. SM has photos. There were convictions in this case.
      Amigoe
      Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2. Update posted 8/19 by msmarple

      * * *
      04/18/2006 – Raul Croes attacked, killed in a restaurant by a man with a machete.
      Solo di Pueblo
      Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to leslie

      * * *
      05/23/2006 – Enrique Reynier Loefstop, 51, beaten to death by his(?) son, with a baseball bat. Apparently an altercation over the son’s drug use.
      From Bon Dia 2006 “Year in Review” issue: http://tinyurl.com/y2efz2

      * * *
      06/??/2006 – Igor Richardson killed outside Las Vegas bar, San Nichols.
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      06/??/2006 – Man beaten with baseball bat at Malboro Ball Park.
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      06/??/2006 – Couple detained for something about a baby. What does “doodslag” mean? Couple’s initials: FCEF and FAPD. “Circumstancio poco strano.” Could this be the “Baby D” case? Ferdinand Alexander Dijkhoff? (See 12/16/2006)
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      ??/??/2006 – 33-yr-old Colombian man sentenced for molesting an 11-yr-old mentally retarded girl. Dates mentioned in the article are November 2005 and June 2006; cannot determine when the incident(s) occurred, however this case is not listed in the SM 2005 Summary.
      From Bon Dia 2006 “Year in Review” issue: http://tinyurl.com/y2efz2

      * * *
      06/23/2006 – Unknown, unclothed woman found in trash pile; Bon Dia prints graphic photo of corpse.
      Posted 8/13/2006 at M&C by msmarple; update posted 8/14 by msmarple

      * * *
      06/??/2006 – Male corpse found floating offshore; reportedly a fisherman, wrapped in tarp. No further detail available.
      Diario ?
      Posted 8/22/2006 at M&C by lexie. Update from Hotshot via msmarple posted 8/29

      * * *
      06/24/2006 – U.S. tourist “bothered” by “false polis” attempting to exchange sex for a “fine” for an undisclosed, not revealed, offense.
      Amigoe
      Posted 8/28/2006 at M&C by msmarple, from LCD thread

      * * *
      07/27/2006 – Gang rape and cell phone taping of 16-yr-old girl at school. Tape was uploaded to internet. Girl’s parents not pressing charges; polis make no arrests. Girl was sent to live with relatives on another island.
      Diario
      Posted 8/14/2006 on LCD by sandy leiva on LCD; to M&C via msmarple

      * * *
      08/21/2006 -British woman reports attempted rape.
      Diario
      Posted 8/22/2006 at M&C by SunnyInTx, from Refugees Unleashed (RU)

      * * *
      08/21/2006 – Local female attacked at her Wayaca home by two men who hold knife to her throat; rob the house; demand to know where the woman’s husband, a polis officer, keeps his gun.
      Amigoe
      Posted 8/25/2006 at LCD by Sharon; at M&C 8/25 via msmarple

      * * *
      08/29/2006 – Diario reports the arrest of a man for attacking a female tourist at a restaurant.
      Posted 10/17/2006 at M&C thread by msmarple; posted on LCD by SunFreak2 10/16/2006

      * * *
      09/03/2006 – U.S. tourist with 4 other people including 3 females, was assaulted by the bouncer and 5 patrons at Cafe Bahia. The tourist had 3 ribs broken and his left shoulder was fractured. Tourist says some of the patrons who attacked him were from the Curacao racing team.
      Posted 10/16/2006 at M&C thread by 2NJSons_Mom

      * * *
      09/18/2006 РDiario reports that a public employee working as a bouncer at a night club battered a tourist who subsequently required medical attention at the hospital. The bouncer was arrested and fired. The tourist returned home. This may be a follow-up on the 09/03/2006 incident at Caf̩ Bahia (above).
      Posted 9/14/2006 at M&C thread by msmarple, posted by klaas and Easywriter on LCD 9/18.

      * * *
      09/??/2006 – Mysterious death at Tanki Leendirt (near “Euro Kitchen”?) of chef/cook of Eagle Hotel. Cause of death unknown.
      From Bon Dia 2006 “Year in Review” issue: http://tinyurl.com/y2efz2

      * * *
      09/??/2006 – Man convicted, sentenced to 24 yrs for killing of Pino Suarez. No indication of when this crime occurred. Suarez may have been one of the unidentified men found dead earlier (see 01/23/2006 and 06/??/2006).
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      09/??/2006 – Pascualito Geerman found dead at Baco Prins. Cause of death not noted.
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      10/??/2006 – over 3,000 kilos (over 6,613.8 lbs) of drugs seized.
      From Solo di Pueblo 2006 “Year in Review” issue, A section, Starting on Page 16:
      http://tinyurl.com/y4uhlb

      * * *
      11/14/2006 – Bon Dia reports death of Igmar Camallo. Polis investigating; cause of death not known; disposition unknown.
      Bon Dia
      http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/Nov/14/A-14-11-06.pdf
      Posted 11/14/2006 at LCD by leslie;

      * * *
      11/15/2006 — A woman lodged a sexual assault complaint against Ramon Lee, Minister of Labour, Sport, and Culture. Prime Minister Nelson Oduber stated, “It’s a very sensitive matter and I regret the way everything is now in the media. I also regret the fact that I had to hear the woman cry again telling her story on several radio stations today (Friday, editor).”
      Amigoe.com 11/15/2006 and 11/27/2006.
      Posted 11/16/2006 and 11/27 M&C by msmarple

      * * *
      11/16/2006 – “We have no alien necessary that ounce come say how unsafely our island is. An Aruban who such call things, calls I to a country traitor, lets stand to an alien who gives a bad name to Aruba abroad. That is still more terrible. That says to minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of justice on remarks of Jorge Pesquera, director of Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA).”
      This is a rough translation, from a Dutch version of Amigoe.com.
      Posted at BFN by PearlinUSA on 11/16/2006

      * * *
      11/17/2006 – Date of post on SM LCD; a screen shot of a SM Front Page post by an Aruba resident (excerpt):
      “Carlos ‘n’ Charlie is the worst place to go. Of course they wait for the girls who are spending their “last night in Aruba” – night. This date raping or gang raping is going on for a long time now. The local victims don’t even go to police, cuz they’re too embarrassed about the situation.”
      Brought to M&C thread by dkpen 11/17/2006

      * * *
      11/24/2006 – Diario reports that Pedro Arthuro Gomez-Torres, 39, was murdered at the Bongo Bar in San Nicholas. He worked at Valero Palm Beach.
      http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/11/24/
      Posted by Leslie on M&C thread 11/24/2006

      * * *
      12/04/2006 – Diario reports that Hoben Mayron Bayne was killed outside of Carlos & Charlies. Occurred during the night of 12/02/2006-12/03/2006.
      Posted by Grande at Truth4Natalee (T4N), and by klaas and msmarple on M&C thread 12/04/2006

      * * *
      12/16/2006 – Diario reports that Ferdinand Alexander Dijkhoff is accused of killing his four-month-old baby. (He was convicted.)
      http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/12/16
      Posted by msmarple on M&C thread 12/16/2006; subsequent posts by Leslie and Florida on the LCD clarify the man’s name.

      * * *
      12/27/2006 – Diario reports that the body of Carlos Arturo Moreno Castro (Carlos Moreno) was found on the beach. He was minus an ear. 20 kilos (44 lbs) of cocaine are somehow involved. Polis do suspect foul play.
      http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/12/27/
      Posted by klaas on M&C thread 12/27/2006.

      * * *
      12/27/2006 — Diario reports the apparent suicide of Brigitte Christine Katelaan, 37, a producer for Tele Aruba. Death by hanging.
      http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/12/27/
      Posted by klaas on M&C thread 12/27/2006.

    26. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 4:12 pm

      Mere

      Thanks

      MF, when Soul Beach Festival moves to St. Maarten, you don’t think they will have to comp those same or more rooms, or is it that Aruba can’t take the hit of having to give rooms away to promote tourism, if your tourism is down and then you got to give it away, it is costing to do business,,,,but in a very flourishing business/tourist arena comping is away to bring in more money to the secondary businesses (casino’s, food service and shops), Unless of course, you have no other business.

    27. Mere on January 10th, 2007 4:28 pm

      #26…I just copied the information…there are a number of smart monkeys who have been reading and researching for weeks….and compiling it to the “Murders and Crime in Aruba” thread. This does make one think twice before buying a ticket to Aruba.

    28. chris on January 10th, 2007 4:34 pm

      Mere re #25 this is just the thing that you need to fax to Ms. Rice in Washington. It is enough to open everybody’s eyes…..chris

    29. Dustyballs on January 10th, 2007 4:34 pm

      Aruba is a thug ridden island.That no american family should ever visit.They Aruba have spit in the face of american familys everywhere.

    30. Tibrogargan on January 10th, 2007 4:48 pm

      #3 Miss-U. The pig would have to be deceased before it would get any publicity and have it’s photo in the newspapers.

      ONE OSTRICH ISLAND ONE WAY ISLAND

      How far is Aruba from the Bermuda Triangle?

    31. Patti on January 10th, 2007 5:12 pm

      Oduber:

      Which was the most infuriating for you?

      The rape victim’s crying or the fact that it was on the radio? Or both happening at the same time? (post 25 11/15)

      You run a pretty tight ship, there, don’t you? But, it looks as if there is a leak!?!?!?!!

      January, 2007 – Camilo Romero – T.V. Cameraman –
      Another – Death by Hanging

      Or was that TWO leaks?

      Maybe they should have listened to Croes:

      “Anyone going on the internet, communicating with the aliens, will be considered a traitor” per se (post #25 11/16)

      The cartoon is right – everything comes right back to you…
      afterall, you are the Big Hog on the Top of the Ladder at the Pig Sty…. nothing gets past you.

      Justice for Natalee
      Boycott Aruba

    32. Skyboxx on January 10th, 2007 5:54 pm

      May Natalee’s Spirit HAUNT them for the rest of their miserable lives. May the MONKEY’s Haunt them for the rest of their miserable existance, UNTIL we get JUSTICE for Natalee.

    33. MF on January 10th, 2007 6:08 pm

      Thank you for giving me the chance to clear the misunderstandings:

      01/06/06: This was a robbery that took place.

      ***

      01/06/06: A report from the Netherlands, where in the Netherlands it has happened that a case was considered a suicide, while in reality it could have been a murder. Not a murder case here. Only a decision to do autopsy on suicides.

      ***

      01/12/06: As it was descrobed it is a robbery that was posted by a person. No murder case here. Notice the ‘apparently’.

      ***

      01/23/06: The man that was found, there was an autopsy done and he died of a heart attack, not mentioned in this small article.

      ***

      01/23/05: Robbery that took place, not a murder case.

      ***

      01/12/06: A.P. was killed by a choller now in costudy.

      ***

      03/20/06: Person killed on a ship that was later
      transported to Aruba. Not a murder case in Aruba.

      ***

      03/??/06: Not a murder case, but a robbery.

      ***

      03/??/06: A traffic accident where the driver ran away. Driver later arrested for leaving site of accident.

      ***

      04/05/06: D.D case where the man died of overdosed when drug capsules in his stomach broke, he died in the arms of his friend. His friends were all convicted for destroying an object, since after dead, a corpse is considered an object and jail sentences can go up to 6 years.

      ***

      04/18/06: RC was killed with a machete outside a restaurant by person with a criminal history; sentenced to life in prison.

      ***

      05/23/06: The 51 year old that attacked his mother dies of an overdose, by using a bad drug called ‘burrundanga’ that made him aggressive and then stops the heart.

      ***

      06/??/06: I.R. Murder case.

      ***

      06/??/06: Marlboro beating; problem with Mansurs, no murder case here.

      ***

      06/??/06: Baby F.D. Killed by his father, when he slept on the baby. Was tried as ‘doodslag’ aka murder. Mother was initally detained.

      ***

      ??/??/06: Not a murder case, man was sentenced for indecency.

      ***

      06/23/06: This was the body of a woman (Illegal) that drowned when wanted to swim to coast on the northern side of the island. Many have drowned this way and their bodies never found. Other that came with her and manage to swim to land, told her story. Picture was too graphic as her body was pinned onto the rock with all the trash that washed ashore.

      ***

      06/??/06: Same case. No murder here, sometimes DIARIO is not that reliable when they printed that the body was a man instead of a woman.

      ***

      06/24/06: Not murder case here, a possible robbery or rape for money attempt.

      ***

      07/27/06: Not a murder case here; a problem that started by some kids at a school when they accused each other of taking naked pictures and passing them around, the media dropped the case, when it became clear that it was an attempt of one of the kids to put others in problem as the 16 year old was the mastermind of those tapes. No charges. That the mother was embarrased of her daughter behavior and left the island, I cannot confirm that.

      ***

      08/21/06: This is not a murder case, if true it is a rape attempt.

      ***

      08/21/06: This is not a murder case either; if true it might be a robbery.

      ***

      08/29/06: Not a murder case; report of police arresting a criminal.

      ***

      09/03/06: Not a murder case, but a fight that broke between a group of tourists and another group that came to Aruba for a Racing event. The fight took place in front of Bahia Restaurant. The bouncer that tried to stop the fight also got involved and was later arrested.

      ***

      09/18/06: See above. No murder case here.

      ***

      09/??/06: Death at Chef was not known by the time of the report. He died of a heart attack and was under influence of drugs. No murder here.

      ***

      09/??/06: Case that took place in St. Maarten back in January 2006.

      ***

      09/??/06: P.G. died when a wave pushed him off the rocks into the rough seas, witnesses say. Friends say he was fishing and could not swim. Not a murder case here.

      ***

      10/??/06: Report of ALE seizing drugs. No murder case here.

      ***

      11/14/06: I.M. cause of Death was heart attack; known heart problem. Not a murder case.

      ***

      11/15/06: Not a murder case; a sexual relationship gone wrong.

      ***

      11/16/06: Not a murder case here; a minister’s reaction of Jose Pesquera’s political statements.

      ***

      11/17/06: Not a murder case: a biased posting by a person who want to promote gang raping and wants to believe to know what happens in other countries better than what happened next to him.

      ***

      11/24/06: Same case as 01/12/06.

      ***

      12/04/06: Accidental death when victim broke his neck when he felt on the pavement after being punched by a person that wanted to stop a fight. The guy will be tried as assault with deadly consequence; maximum of 8 years of jail.

      ***

      12/16/06: Same case as 06/??/06. Already sentenced.

      ***

      12/27/06: C.C died by drowning. He did not miss any body part (ear), just another mistranslation. The article stated that he had earrings on, not that he missed an ear. He was not connected to the drugs that were found earlier at that same place, but the ALE first considered that option. Not a murder case here.

      ***

      12/27/06: B.K. committed suicide. Had personal and financial problems in the Netherlands. Not a murder case here.

      Over 700 people dies every year on the island. But you do not have to link them all to murder.

      And if Soul goes to St. Maarten, good for them. They know the quantity of tourism they need.

      And Patti, Croes was talking about a group of local people that send false information abroad only for their agenda. Including Milton Ponson that sends e-mails around to people that support any ‘boycott’ against Aruba. Not about telling the other side of the story or giving facts.

      I hope you do boycott the island, your posting are just hatefilled, I doubt you will have fun here anyway. ;-)

    34. Oren on January 10th, 2007 6:14 pm

      You people are something.Try looking up crime sprees on a weekend in Kingston or Port of Spain.Even the Virgin Islands isnt so safe.Most of you folks have never been to Aruba and never would have gone there anyways.I have been there 10 times and would like to move there.So I hope your boycott works…just long enough for me to get a preconstruction property at a good price.Less Americans the better anyways!

    35. cheetah on January 10th, 2007 6:52 pm

      Yeah….may the monkeys Haunt them & ride their backs til they’re face down in the dirt.

    36. Patti on January 10th, 2007 7:43 pm

      MF:

      Perhaps the hate is inevitable when you post to a board
      as MF…?

      You ever think about that?

      Oren:

      Obviously you are an opportunist. You will fit in well
      with Aruba…. they like opportunists and predators.
      Good Luck.

    37. Allan K on January 10th, 2007 7:59 pm

      Why is it someone is telling me what a wonderful place Aruba is when I have seen cover-up on TV. Get real Aruba is an awful place. American lives are of no value if it interferes with the Dutch on the island. I know Natalee goes with Joran and pimps does not return. He is involved period. The Dutch just plain let Joran get away with it. You people visiting Aruba and had good time are probably so ugly pimps wouldn’t bother you. Some people are plain dumb too, that would account for some wanting to live there.

      Maybe some want to hang out at the crack shacks, who knows?

    38. JusticeforNatalee on January 10th, 2007 8:05 pm

      #34 So move there, Oren.

      I bet there are a lot of property deals on Aruba now –due to its
      well-deserved bad image.

    39. JusticeforNatalee on January 10th, 2007 8:10 pm

      MF,

      We hate injustice. That is what we hate.
      We hate lies and we hate coverups.

    40. cheetah on January 10th, 2007 8:11 pm

      Aruba see tourists as crime targets, they steal & drug female tourists so all the ugly local teens can gangrape them.

    41. Maggie on January 10th, 2007 8:16 pm

      Appearance is everything according to Paulus.Why did he go to court and block the FBI from coming into this case? Why did he not allow a full search of his property? Why were people Paulus said he worked with for years and were friends investigating this case? Why did he turn down Tim Miller when he showed up to search? Why did he meet repeatedly with all three suspects while Mickey Johns and Abraham Jones were in jail and get them lawyers? Why was his friend Straten on this case? Why did they call a witness who talked to the police over to their house to ask them what he told the police? Why was his friend Mr King at the house when they came to search, telling people where they could search? Why did he not call his son on that night and say get home, the cops are here looking for you, instead of leading everyone away from the home for an hour on a wild goose chase? Why did he say he took Joran his bag and gave it to him while Joran was walking to the WYndham, when Joran stated he played tennis and put his bag behind the counter and walked to the Wyndham? Why did he say Joran sneaked out the second night and in his police statement he says he gave Joran permission the second night to go to the Wyndham and to be out? Why did Paulus say he picked up Joran at 3 or 4 am the night Natalee disappeared then changed it to 11? Why did Paulus say no body no case to the 3 suspects, then denied saying it? His own son said he did, and the prosecutor said he confirmed to her he did. Why has Mr. Cohen never been on tv again after telling Rita he would look at the casino tape and find out if it was Paulus? he’s been awol since. Why was Paulus on the computer the same night Natalee disappeared, before it was known Natalee was missing, looking up drugs, lawyers and alcohol? What did Deepak mean when he told one of the security guards in prison that the Dutch guy and his father, family got together with them around the pool and made up the Holiday Inn story. That story was told the first night Beth was in town, so it had to be made up before it was even public Natalee was missing. How did Paulus know? Yep, Paulus appearance is everything..

      The Aruba Triangle, where 18 year old girls want to sit on a beach at 3 am alone ONLY when they go out with Joran.

    42. Maggie on January 10th, 2007 8:22 pm

      Frank told it well on his site a few days ago..

      http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/

      Joran said he was a 19 year old soccer player from Holland, makes him look like a tourist also.

      Deepak says they go out and either Joran or Freddy got the girls, they pick them up go to CnC’s or to the hotel. They’ve all been in the same room having sex with tourists before..

      Joran says we’ve done this 20 times before and nothing went wrong.

      The Kalpoes were the taxi and Joran could’ve very well said you can share a ride back to the hotel, since I am staying there also. None of the group reported seeing the Kalpoes there that night. Beth says Natalee never saw the Kalpoes till she got in the car. They more than likely did that 20 times before.

    43. Miss-Underestimated on January 10th, 2007 8:36 pm

      Well I think Aruba pretty much started the hate. First by detaining two wrongfully accused men, because of race. Then the whole character assasination of Natalee and her family. Oh and lets not forget, the run around, Dave digging in the filthy dumps looking for his daughter, then denial to have others, like FBI help search. That pretty much describes HATE to me. I hope that wouldn’t fall under the description of hospitality?
      Maggie, it is known that Paulus has a larger hand in this than meets the eye, Paulus, Cohen, Dompig, Jaansen and Renfro, VanderStraten, have sold out the entire island for what? We must be close to finding out, that is why we are getting all these visitors. Who is that OLD man that was on the video with Natalee the last night she was ever seen again?

    44. JusticeforNatalee on January 10th, 2007 8:46 pm

      Go, Maggie. Tell it.

    45. JusticeforNatalee on January 10th, 2007 8:49 pm

      Even Joran’s own attorney can’t stand him–can’t stand to defend him.

      Antonio Carlo had to clear his conscience and confess to Karin Jannsen that

      JORAN PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE IN NATALEE’S DISAPPEARANCE

    46. IndyDan on January 10th, 2007 9:06 pm

      Wonder if the idiots that post here in rebuttal of the truth get paid by the paragraph or number of words or the number of posts?

    47. Richard on January 10th, 2007 9:30 pm

      Oren, you’re welcome to Aruba. And I agree with you: the fewer Americans who go there, the better.

      In fact, that’s what most of us are trying to do: to discourage ANY AND ALL Americans from going to Aruba.

      Lie in the mud with the rest of the hogs if you will.

    48. yoyo muffintop on January 10th, 2007 9:55 pm

      I don’t know IndyDan, but would you classify an “idiot” as person who says no matter what facts turn out to be or what the actual truth turns out to be, JVDS is guilty of murder? Just curious…

    49. Tibrogargan on January 10th, 2007 10:03 pm

      #46 Most likely by the number of lies they spread. Would they get a bonus when they reach a certain amount? They all seem to be trying to outdo each other.

    50. mayan_moons on January 10th, 2007 11:17 pm

      lol IndyDan Good Question! Prolly all 3 you mentioned & some we don’t know about yet. Yeah we know some people are still going but Aruba as a Graduation or Spring Break Holiday destination is over. This boycott is thinning out the herd of attractive tourists for sure, words out these loser’s wanna drug people for sex.

    51. JusticeforNatalee on January 10th, 2007 11:24 pm

      And Aruba has shown the WORLD:

      This is what might happen to your daughter.
      (given date-rape drug and killed)

      This is what Aruba will do.
      (Nothing)

      Oh, wait, Aruba WILL do something:
      (coverup the crime and trash your daughter)

    52. mayan_moons on January 10th, 2007 11:44 pm

      actual truth? from aruba? hahahaha

    53. mayan_moons on January 10th, 2007 11:46 pm

      you make me laugh!

    54. Carpe Noctem on January 10th, 2007 11:53 pm

      MF give it up. People will not come
      to an Island as hateful as yours! An Island
      that treated the mother of a missing (most likely
      murdered girl killed by Joran Van der Rapist)
      like a criminal.

      Hateful people? After that display to
      the world during the Holloway Case…
      one thing is for sure, the Aruban/Dutch
      that could act like that when someone
      is at their most vulnerable point -
      are FULL of HATE.

      ARUBA – ONE HATEFUL ISLAND! – there’s your slogan.

      People have eyes. People have brains. People
      can see what the Government of Aruba says
      never matches what it actually does.

      That is why your tourism is non-existant
      at this point. In the end, numbers speak,
      and yours are through the floor.

    55. mayan_moons on January 10th, 2007 11:57 pm

      Justice every other day i think about that….i’m thinking okay everyone in Aruba knows how these guys (their sons) put ghb in tourist drinks, they rape these girls on vacation for gods sake & Aruba leaders do not care.

      They killed Natalee & laugh about it.

      They laugh at Natalee’s family.

    56. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 12:01 am

      YoYo:

      JVDS is guilty of murder?

      ——-

      Not only is this little carnivore a cold blooded murderer…

      You left out the part our about him being a stalking rapist

      along with his degenrate of a father.

      You never were good with details when they pertain to Joran The Rapist!

      -J4N

    57. mayan_moons on January 11th, 2007 12:07 am

      Hey Carpe!

      Glad to see you sir!

    58. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 12:13 am

      Let see…

      Let me look at the calendar…

      It’s January the 11th, Two-Thousand and Seven

      and Karin Jaansen has apparently still not felt

      the dire need to find the energy to get her off of

      her fat Dutch BON-BON EATIN’ ass to bring Natalee Ann

      Holloway’s

      murderers to justice!?!?!?

      ARUBA – ONE HATEFUL ISLAND.

      Your inactions speak volumes to

      potential tourists the world over.

      THIS IS WHY NOBODY IS COMING.

      -J4N

    59. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 12:14 am

      hiya Mayan Moons,

      Good to see you as well!

    60. Molly on January 11th, 2007 12:22 am

      Hi, IndyDan, You are prolly right. Ca-ching!

      molly (in Houston)

    61. Patti on January 11th, 2007 12:30 am

      Carpe:

      I just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that we have another American missing in the Carribean:

      Joel Gove went missing as he was hiking on a trail near
      a sulfur mine on the Dutch island of Saba.

      When asked by the family if they could post “missing”
      signs around the island, the officials said that they
      could not. The Government Officials of the island
      stated that it would be bad for tourism.

      We received this information, this morning; and, to my
      knowledge, he has not, yet, been found.

      Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends.
      We pray for his safe return.

    62. mayan_moons on January 11th, 2007 12:38 am

      What an odd coincidence that not one but two people who work for television networks in Aruba turn up dead in one week. Both hanged. Anyone ask Peter if he had contact with her on his investigation of Natalee’s case in Aruba?

    63. Patti on January 11th, 2007 12:53 am

      Ms. Mayan:

      I think that it is more than just a coincidence. After the first hanging, we were suspicious, especially after the statements made my Croes. But with two dead by hanging in little more than a week is just way to weird to be coincidence.

      That is especially alarming to me as, if it is true, it is an indication of the authorities power to, not just cover up a crime but also to shut people up. People that very well may have been speaking out against the injustice either in the things that they were saying or the things that they were doing.

      It is very sad.

      I wonder if this has been the status quo for so long in Aruba that they are calous. They don’t seem at all concerned. Sad, but not at all suspicious.

    64. Patti on January 11th, 2007 1:04 am

      It’s late. I only wanted to make sure that Carpe was aware
      of the news in Saba.

      Go get ‘em, Carpe!
      It’s good to see you back.

      Night.

    65. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 1:44 am

      Thanks Patti & Mayan

      I was not aware of the tourist on Saba.

      Two hangings is mind boggling… and not very likely
      a coincidence. A young woman hanging herself outside
      the patio of her apartment WAS A STRETCH.

      Two hangings… something is WRONG. VERYYYYY WRONG!

      I guess it’s a DUTCH THANG, huh? :rolling eyes:

      Aruba makes me sick.

      http://tinyurl.com/ygq79p

      -J4N

    66. mayan_moons on January 11th, 2007 2:02 am

      I wasn’t aware of the tourist on saba either.

      wowser’s freaky pic thar Carpe!

    67. mayan_moons on January 11th, 2007 2:08 am

      I’d like to be holding the strings in Dompig, Sloots (hell there’s to many to name) during you mofo’s vacations a$$holes.

      You hurt Natalee & it makes me angry.

    68. mayan_moons on January 11th, 2007 2:24 am

      You’ll get what you got coming one of these days boys.

    69. Mortella on January 11th, 2007 2:36 am

      #33 MF,

      What on earth are you talking about?? I know English is not your first language but the title of that thread is Murder AND CRIME in Aruba. Not all of those are supposed to be murders. Some are just as you state, and only other violent crimes. No one said every crime listed there was a murder as that would be far more than any dozen we documented, now wouldn’t it?

      So what exactly is it you think you have cleared up? We have clearly marked the various robberies and room invasions as just that and the murders as what they are as well. You have just verified that these other violent crimes did happen for us, lol, thanks but we don’t need your help as we have already found these examples.

      No one ever said ALL of those were murders! That would be about fifty! But they are all either murders OR other violent crimes committed in the tourist district or in restaurants or bars or other places frequented by tourist or of interest in some manner to tourists.

      We by no means attempted to document every crime for that would be just about a full time job there as so much of it for such a small island. We only listed the very few that would reflect on tourists and tourism and their safety as the papers are daily crammed with all manner of other crimes that we do not have time to delve into. Tourist safety is what we are most interested in.

      But we do stand by our count and until someone demonstrates otherwise, will continue to do so. Just saying the things we listed as robberies were not murders is just plain peculiar for we never said they were murders in the first place. I don’t understand your point in saying what we called a robbery was not a murder.

      And for 2005, we were right on the money, right in line with the official count given by Aruban Law Enforcement. We used the same method and technique for 2006 so I think we could expect the same result.

      Again, I am trying to be very patient as I know English is not your first language but you seem to have totally missed the entire point of that thread and misread just about every entry. How can you suddenly be having so much trouble with English? I have never noticed it being that difficult for you like this. Maybe you should go back and do that before posting next time especially if claiming to respond to something. Murder AND CRIME, get it? Some are murders and some are other crimes. But the total for the year I will await some official count if you don’t mind for as I said, we used the same method that resulted in an accurate count for 2005.

      And some things have still other points of interest like the man Aruba said died of natural causes in April and yet his family had autopsy performed off island only to find out he was strangled. The point was not where he died (on the ship) but that somebody in Aruba lied about the cause of death and we took that from an article about Interpol so I think I will take their word for it before I do anyone from Aruba.

      And suicide is considered a violent crime in this country as it involves the taking of a human life even if by the person themselves. Guess we lack Arubans’ tolerance and also tend to think burglary and robbery violent crimes as well. That would be unlike one of the hotel workers as reported to have told tourists that it was just poor people taking things to sell for money. Well, DUH! That is how that usually works.

      Some of those room invasions were pretty scary, too, with the people in the room sleeping! As I said, we by no means attempted to list all crime, just the very small portion of it that involves the tourist.

      You see, we have been lied to so often that we no longer can trust Arubans as a source and must seek third party verification whenever possible. But I would never go back there and yes I have been twice in the past. It is no big deal and certainly nothing special. Less attractive than other islands in the region in fact. But it is the hateful way that Americans have been treated there that mosts repulses me because I don’t pay people to insult me or my fellow countrymen who fall victim to their crimes.

      Aruba was already lying about the disappearance of Max Devries long before Natalee Holloway disappeared. They got away with that, or so they think, and so tried to run that scam again but accusing Beth of doing what they wrongly accused his mother of doing, too, fake insurance claims. It is not that easy to do such a thing in the first place as they just won’t pay in the absence of a body for a very long time, usually seven years, and also Max’s family donated all they received to a Children’s Hospital in Michigan, hardly the acts of a scammer.

      But the locals believe everything they are told and so took it for granted that this really was about insurance. Ir so the game is played out. The officials lie and the locals pretend to believe them just like partners in a d dysfunctional marriage.This is the way they were accustomed to treating Americans who are victims of crime. Well, this time they didn’t get away with it and many people have had their gut-fill of all the lies and hate and apparent jealousy from Arubans.

      I know I have for as I said, it is nothing special and certainly not any place to endure any grief over seeing. Not worth the time it takes even by air as there is just not anything there that cannot be found closer, safer and more pleasant. Seen one island in that region, seen them all but most are much prettier than Aruba and have better vegetation and are much, much cleaner. Parts of Aruba stink, literally! And the decor is so 1980′s! Or was last time I saw it, dated and dirty.

      So thanks for your effort MF but next time if you will read, you might save yourself all that bother. It is both Murder AND Crime, not just murder.

      .

    70. Richard on January 11th, 2007 8:01 am

      The Saba story is heating up; the family of the missing man is calling on the FBI to get involved. Another triumph for the Netherlands Antilles … and a direct comparison to Natalee is made.

      You can be certain I’ve been sending this story to Dave Holloway and Beth Twitty since it came out.

      Is it POSSIBLE … the island of Saba is concerned more about its tourist image than anything else? Is that island the summer home of Aruba’s government?

      Hey, guys, you’re ALL going down together! (I hope)

      Missing man’s family says FBI is needed now
      ARTEMIS COUGHLAN, Staff Writer
      01/11/2007

      TRENTON — The ex-wife of missing Trenton businessman Joel Gove is calling on authorities in the Caribbean to bring in America’s FBI to help search for him on the rugged island of Saba.

      Amy Gonzales said that Gove, 47, of the Glen Afton section of the city, left on a Christmas Day flight to the island, which is part of the Netherlands Antilles, a Dutch-held group of islands.

      She has accused island officials of not doing enough to find Gove because they are worried about harming their image as a tourist destination.

      “There is nothing new,” Amy Jones, an employee of Gove’s West State Street company, Habitat Management and Design, said yesterday.

      Gonzales and co-workers are eagerly awaiting the island’s police report on the missing man.

      “They’re not finished with their investigation,” Jones said.

      Only a couple days ago, officials asked for his credit card records, said co-worker Lynn Ashton.

      Once the family receives a copy of the officials’ police report, they can take it to the FBI so they can get involved in the search, Gonzales said.

      “They’ve done almost everything they (could) do and they need help from the United States,” Gonzales said.

      “There are better resources here.”

      On Dec. 27, Gove left the Hotel Elmomo in the morning, bought a bottle of water at a store at the base of Too Far Trail at about 9:30 a.m. and started his hike up the rocky trail rimmed, in part, with cliffs.

      Gove, a very fit and healthy man, was last seen at 11:45 a.m. by another hiker who had explored the sulfur mine and saw Gove on his way down, said Gonzales, his former wife and mother of his 15-year-old daughter Georgia.

      That hiker said Gove looked fine, he wasn’t distressed or sweating and was very friendly.

      Hotel officials didn’t know he was missing until Dec. 30, two days after he went on the hike, when he was scheduled to check out. They found hid passport and other personal items in his room.

      Gonzales, upset and distressed about the news, surmises he might have just stepped off the trail.

      Others think there may be a possibility that he may have passed the sulfur mine and went on to the hot springs a bit further up the trail.

      The case is eerily similar to that of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway who disappeared while on a high school trip to Dutch-held Aruba in 2005.

      Gove is a successful environmental consultant and herpetologist who specializes in snakes and turtles.

      He is also very philanthropic in that he is politically passionate, is committed to the revitalization of Trenton and children’s welfare.

      He has served on the board of directors for Kidsbridge Children’s Museum since 1996, said Lynne Azarchi, executive director of the organization.

      To help pay for the increasing costs of the search, Kidsbridge and others have set up a special fund to which people can donate.

      Checks or money orders can be sent to Kidsbridge Children’s Museum; P.O. Box 4561; Chambersburg Section; Trenton, NJ 08611.

    71. msmarple on January 11th, 2007 10:12 am

      FL #19 and MF #22 and #33, and any others commenting re. the Murder & Crime thread:

      Mortella seems to have clarified the post. If you go to the Summary itself, you will see that those we counted as murders, are indicated by red type for the dates – a nuance that wasn’t reproducable here. In many cases, we read about corpses on the beach, etc., but unless there’s some indication of foul play, it’s just listed – not counted as a murder.

      And just to point out a couple of items, MF:

      The baby was killed because (a) the father didn’t think the child was his, and/or (b) because the baby wouldn’t stop crying. Diario said (a), another FP poster said (b).

      The gentleman who died on ship – Why did Aruba rule it natural causes? There were visible neck injuries! To my way of thinking, that makes it “Aruba’s”. There must have been a REASON to blow the Cause of Death.

      So I do not take MF’s version as the last word. Just a couple of nip picks from his post #33.

      It’s really hard to get a straight fact out of Aruba. Any FP posters who can help us with translations would be greatly appreciated.

      ALSO – for any references to New Orleans or any other city in the United States: The Murder Ratio for Aruba in higher than that for the United States – both as a national average, and for population groups of 50,000 – 100,000. You can see a comparison, and links to the FBI’s crime stats for 2005, on Page 7 of the Murder & Crime thread.

      Here is the URL for the Summary of the M&C thread.

      http://tinyurl.com/wjjsz

    72. Miss-Underestimated on January 11th, 2007 10:36 am

      Hello msmarple.

      Typical of Aruba, to perfume the pig.

    73. Molly on January 11th, 2007 10:37 am

      two television employees = two suicides = two murders

      Too much coincidence and similarities. What other similarities do they have? Involvement in the Natalee Holloway case?

      molly (in Houston)

    74. Mortella on January 11th, 2007 11:01 am

      Some have wondered if the two TV employees could have been working with Peter de Vries on his coverage of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway or some other story that would prove to be an embarrassment to the local Powers that Be. It seems they have much to be embarrassed about.

      And even if these are both actual suicides, what a sad, sad and miserable place this island must be for such a high number of suicides. The fatal accident rate must be off the chart, too.

      I wish Anna and MsMarple had also done a Suicide Count and a Death by Accident to Tourist as well for weren’t there at least three American tourists killed last year in strange accidents? One a wreck on defective four wheeler with fake helmet and a couple who both mysteriously drowned scuba diving?

      Whether by accident, suicide or murder, Aruba is One Morbid Island! Bodies everywhere and left out in the open for all to gawk at and photograph. Not my idea of a day at the beach!

    75. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:44 am

      Mortella:

      The fact that these “supposed” suicides, that look more like executions, were left out in the open for everyone to see, makes one wonder if this is not a statement… with a very loud threat attached:

      DON’T TALK…. or else!!!!

      I have always guessed and maybe this is proof that the people of Aruba live under the strangling control of their governnment. Although, many Arubans would never come right out and say it, you can hear it in their tone. They are living in a country that is pounded, everyday, by the drug lords and the pimps and a government, that starts with Oduber and ends with the lowest of all police officers, that make it their job to dish out their own kind of justice on the people, but never on their own.

      The lack of an effective and fair justice system results in corruption. These poor people live under two sets of rules and the more the government tries to cover it up, the worse it gets.

      There are so many crimes that are committed as favors. There are so many times that the police are paid to look the other way that it is easy to manipulate the system. I believe that Natalee’s disappearance became one of those crimes that was swept under the rug as a payment for the many favors that exist under that corrupt system.

      The family of Natalee Holloway want their daughter back. The people of Aruba want their justice, too. And the government of Aruba want nothing more than for us all just to go away… be quiet… get a life… and forget.

      We will never do any of those things, much less, forget!

    76. Richard on January 11th, 2007 11:47 am

      The Netherlands has already said that it regards ALL “suicide” statistics from Aruba as suspect. Given the way things are going in the Netherlands Antilles, why don’t they get a new administration … and hold the current imbeciles to task for what they have allowed to happen?

    77. Richard on January 11th, 2007 11:49 am

      Patti … your comment about the “strangling control” that the Aruba government has over its citizens is a nice phrase.

      Especially in that it probably is precisely accurate.

    78. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:59 am

      OUR PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILY OF:

      CAMILO ROMERO, a hero

      CAUGHT UP IN THE CORRUPTION OF ONE HAPPY ISLAND.

      May he rest in peace.

    79. Patti on January 11th, 2007 12:34 pm

      Richard:

      I have, yet, to see The Netherlands do anything. Talk is cheap. Saying that you are going to do something and actually doing it are two different things.

      It only makes you wonder: Does The Netherlands hold a hand in this game of corruption? How far does the corruption go and where did it begin? Have there been favors passed on between them, as well; and if so, where does it stop?

      You got this hand washing that hand; and that hand washing this…. everyone passing the soap, holding their breath and hoping that someone doesn’t break the chain of silence.

      Do we hear The Netherlands? They are a big, powerful country with a big voice. But, even they fall silent.

      Take a look at the report that they just completed… their internal affairs report of their peers:

      A rather “peachy” report that not only reports corruption, but discloses every excuse for it… A smack on the cheek with a “European flair”.

      Get Real!!!

      They say the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree and I suppose, in this case, the fruit hasn’t fallen, yet… we’ll see where it lands.

      Boycott Aruba
      Justice for Natalee

    80. sharon on January 11th, 2007 12:35 pm

      THANK YOU FRONT PAGE POSTERS!

      Check out the latest entry on this thread inside the forum!

      http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=103474#103474

      JORAN AND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT WERE GIVEN PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT THROUGHOUT THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION

    81. Patti on January 11th, 2007 1:01 pm

      Yep!

      One dirty hand, washing the other.

      Thank you, Sharon

      Justice for Natalee
      Boycott Aruba

    82. Roy on January 11th, 2007 1:50 pm

      This is so sad to see Natalee wielded as iffn some sort of political sword. It rings of 2001…. minus Natalee of course… an election year in Aruba; cease and desists from (2) American states (Pa & Ak); failed coup in neighboring Venezuela…. watching President Bush stand up and make a fool of himself…remember “We support whoever the Venezuelan people should chose to lead them” and then lo and behold, Chavez is carted back on the scene. That had to be pretty humiliating. Wonder where Chavez had been hidden? Aruba maybe? That was my guess then?
      Jump to 2005….another election year in Aruba, cease and desists in Alabama and SC wrt Caruba….ploy or bait? The FBI jumped hard and fast…they beat Natalee’s dad down there….DEA…already there… We’re told of possible phone call from Natalee////explains why Charles Croes is so readily available and why Marcia Twitty has taken the MB kids phones from them as soon as they landed.. learned later no such call was ever made, so then how is the magnificent intuition explained…it’s not.. arguments become watered down.
      Karin Jannsen visits Bacchus…momentum for Boycott is shut down….That reeks of blackmail…. crime is replayed for Aruba…calls are made… progress does appear to be playing out//// Guido arrested in Holland, case turns cold again in Aruba…reeked of blackmail by Holland…but back to Bacchus or in short, the US.
      Why or how does the momentum for the boycott get shut down….One of Bacchus’s constituents goes missing, probably murdered…it’s the story of the year and the momentum is suddenly squashed…The FBI would have been all over the Caruba investigation knowing that it originated in Aruba…in addition, the CEO of the bluegreen/???? group was well aware of Peter Mohammed’s memo to conduct a smear campaign and I am certain he would have reported that to the FBI….The details I am certain they could have learned about from such Aruban stand outs as JMansur or CCroes……
      So then they should have been well aware of what was gonna transpire before it did…. So then, why no travel advisory on the part of Bacchus’s office////or the FBI. It appears they let it go down but for a purpose I don’t understand yet…(still no travel advisory) So it becomes important to know WHO arranged this class trip, who in MB may know more than they are saying, who profiled Beth and why such attacks on this mother has been permitted on the scale that it has from Aruba….Aruba blackmails by attacking the weapon (Beth) and not the source. Why?
      And lastly, the schism between Mountain Brook and Mississippi…sure, they’ve made the tv circuit and said all was fine between them but for anyone paying attention to these boards the last couple of months, will know that this is not so…I’m sure I don’t have to gleen over the several examples provided…Someone needs to get their big butt off all the 302′s and provide some answers.
      #5 Blab…you are prolly right…there is more to the story but why the grudge you ask??? Because you’re (Aruba) sitting on the remains of a child that needs to returned home to her mother and father…That is sick and makes Aruba one sad island! Not that it makes the Dutch and some crappy Americans much better…..Especially the ones who run around and try to make political hay out of it. They just look like they’re a part of it and make these boards appear that way as well.
      You wanna know something really sad…. Not once did I ever hear President Bush say Natalee’s name. I know they did nothing to help (including Rice) but they could have at least acknowledged her in some public way instead of treating her as if she just vanished.

    83. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 2:02 pm

      #80

      Thanks for the link.

      I think that collection of important points should be sent to Queen Beatrix, Dr. Rice, or Editor in Chief of NY Times.

      It should be sent to SOMEBODY in a position of power.

      Comments, anyone?

    84. Patti on January 11th, 2007 2:03 pm

      We have two people hung, execution style, in the streets of
      Aruba and the words of their king resounding in our ears:

      Aruba:

      Eat your bread,

      Drink your kool-aid

      and, please,

      just be happy…

      Please, Mr. Oduber, do tell:

      Where is our Minister of Justice?

      And what is it that he tells us to do?

      Are we all traitors if we drink from the cup of knowledge?

      Are we traitors if we refuse your offer to partake of the
      fruit of your badness?

      Where are your judges and what have they to say of your conspiracies to keep us from truth?

      Does not truth lead to justice?

      Mr. Croes: What is truth?

      Boycott! Aruba….

    85. Waterboy on January 11th, 2007 2:15 pm

      I was listening to Tim Miller on a replay of Dana’s show. I think it was from 12/26/ 06, but not sure.

      I went from there to a google search on Tim, and I found this http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/texas_equusearch/1.html
      It is about a young 12 year old that Tim helped find (I’m sorry, he found her body).

      The story made me think how easily it would be to hide a body in Aruba. Simply throw it in the sea. Natalee was probable thrown in the ocean. She may have washed up i.e. the plastic bag (possible taken back to sea or cremated).

      We know there were 3 for sure, and possible as many as 10 involved in the initial assault on Natalee. There were many others involved in the cover up (some of which are dead, missing, or in hiding.

      If you read the story about the little girl, you realize that even when you know the general area where a body was placed, it can be difficult to find. The Brazos River is very muddy in most places with zero visibility, but the area where they were looking is relatively small, and it still took two weeks to find her body. If they had not been there when the body surfaced, it would have just washed out to sea, and possible never been found.

      The speculation about the rock area has me worried, and the horrible things that may have taken place there.

      Joran is no mastermind criminal. He is just a punk kid. However, you throw Paulus into the formula, and we have a real witch’s brew, and anything is possible.

      I’ll have to go with others – Paulus is your man. He knows it all.

    86. Patti on January 11th, 2007 2:34 pm

      Roy:

      The truth about Natalee was tossed into a political arena.
      The people involved in the disappearance and those that
      protected them are very powerful people in Aruba.

      Are we to just sit back and do nothing? The boycott on
      Aruba is not against the people of Aruba, it is against
      the government behind which these criminals hide.

      Now, that The Netherlands has its’ investigation into the
      investigation going, Aruba is back to status quo. Are we
      to sit back and drink our kool-aid, as well? If you want
      the people of your country to boycott against an island of
      people that suffer the consequences, they must know the
      truth about the corruption that they are asked to boycott
      against.

      I thought that was what we are trying to do. We want the
      citizen’s advisory, yes. But, until we get it, are we not
      to honor this boycott upon the same principles under which
      the boycott was founded?

      Natalee is not the reason for the corruption, she is not the
      sword with which we fight corruption, but it is because of
      Natalee that the world is able to see the corruption and the
      pain and suffering that it has caused.

      I say boycott Aruba, and perhaps, for you we say too much;
      but the boycott against Aruba must go on and the corruption,
      whether it be in Aruba, the U.S., The Netherlands, must be
      stopped.

    87. Libby on January 11th, 2007 2:50 pm

      Yep, like Minnesota Dad always says, Paulus is the perp.

      Paulus knows who drugged, brutally assaulted, and raped Natalee. After the drugging, brutal assault and rape, Natalee was in bad shape. Paulus called for assistance. I think Paulus murdered her and disposed of her body…or paid to have the body disposed of at the direction of someone higher because they didn’t want the negative publicity brought to the island. The Aruban authorities thought (and obviously continue to think) they could just sweep this whole thing under a rug…it will go away…a teen who ran away etc. Little did they know Natalee has parents who will not give up on finding their little girl.

      The negative publicity will never go away Aruba. You can do whatever you want but Aruba…until justice is served…you will be known as the evil unsafe island.

      Oh and justice is prosecuting and punishing the true perpetrators….not someone you decide to frame to make this go away! We all know who most of the guilty parties are. Do something. It isn’t going away until you do!

    88. Patti on January 11th, 2007 2:55 pm

      Justice for Natalee:

      By your reference to “Someone in Power”, are you referring
      to Aruba? Perhaps the one that is the most in power is
      Mr. Oduber. As it is, his job to over-see his ministers.
      Perhaps, he should also receive a copy of your letter.

      Boycott Aruba

    89. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 2:59 pm

      Minister of Justice?

      Regarding Natalee’s case, wouldn’t Minister of InJustice
      be more accurate?

    90. Libby on January 11th, 2007 3:06 pm

      # 86 Amen Patti!

    91. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 3:12 pm

      #88, No, I mean someone in the United States.

      I wouldn’t waste my time sending it to Oduber.

      I was just brainstorming that the “preferential treatment” points should be brought to someone’s attention.

    92. Patti on January 11th, 2007 3:16 pm

      Right On, Lady Justice, write on!

    93. Miss-Underestimated on January 11th, 2007 3:21 pm

      YooHoo Anita, what happened to your camera and lap top? Did you get those back? You said they were taken during a search of your residence, but we know there never was a search. Why did you tell that there was a search? Why Anita? A family is looking for their daughter, Natalee Holloway, who was last seen with your son. Yes Natalee Holloway was last seen with Joran Van Der Sloot, remember he said he will tell us what really happened one day. Why one day? Why not now?

    94. Desiree on January 11th, 2007 3:25 pm

      Libby, were you in Aruba that time Nat was missing? Did you ever meet Paulus? Did you see what you refer to? So, I can start a story about you. For example: your dog has been found dead.Someone who doesn’t like you start a rumor that you did it. Next person tells around that you are a dog kiler. Next person says you not only killed dogs but are abusive to your child too, etc ,etc. Got it!!! You don’t know these people at all! You put this in a statement as if it is true. Can you live with yourself if the truth comes out and the these people have nothing to do with what really happened. Ofcourse you can, what the heck with some slender and harrassment more. THINK, LIBBY!!!
      You could be the last one…….

      __________

      SM: But then again Libby was not the last one with NH, nor lied about the night in question either. Nor did she not help in finding the missing NH whereas a certain JVDS was so upset that he left her on a beach that he would lie to his parents.

      Oh yeah, did we mention he lied?

      R

       

    95. Big Lou on January 11th, 2007 3:36 pm

      Miss: He will never tell us so do not hold your breath.

    96. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 3:36 pm

      My previous hard copy to Dr. Rice is on its way.

      I pointed out new revelations in the case and respectfully challenged Dr. Rice to walk the walk:

      Stand up for NATALEE’S (and other young women’s) human rights

    97. Miss-Underestimated on January 11th, 2007 4:08 pm
    98. Libby on January 11th, 2007 4:26 pm

      Yo Desiree, it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out who is guilty and who isn’t. There has been lie after lie after lie by Paulus, Joran, the K brother, even some of the officials. If you aren’t guilty, you don’t lie and you have nothing to hide. You think Desiree!

    99. IndyDan on January 11th, 2007 4:26 pm

      #48 Yo Yo,
      You post your ugly messages here with your endless negative spin on everything that is supportive to finding answers in getting justice for Natalee Holloway. You come to a site that is pro Natalee, pro family and make personal attacks towards other posters who are here with nothing but good intentions. You’re argumentative, disruptive and add nothing to the discussion except to attempt to agitate.

      My ‘idiot’ post (#46) didn’t mention anyone specifically by name but the fact that you took it personally speaks a lot about how you see yourself. So if the shoe fits, wear it.

      Joran VanDerSloot is a criminal. He’s guilty of illegal drinking and gambling, he’s a rapist by his own admission and in my opinion yes, he’s a murderer. If you don’t like that then take your spew over to one of the hate sites where you’ll be in good company with other idiots just like yourself.

    100. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 4:29 pm

      When is the deadline for the responses to the lawsuits?

      Isn’t it any day?

      Weren’t there 30-day time limits?

    101. Miss-Underestimated on January 11th, 2007 4:29 pm

      Big Lou,

      Oh we know never him to tell us, even if he did could we really think he was telling the truth, an admitted liar?

      Oh Lou someday, maybe soon, someone will crack, and as they say the house of cards will fall.

    102. FL on January 11th, 2007 4:33 pm

      @Miss-Underestimated:
      That was on december 26th (2nd Xmas day or boxing day). That means that *all* shops are closed. People spend that day with their family, nothing unusual actually. Watch the title of that movie: “everything closed on 2nd day of Christmas)

    103. Libby on January 11th, 2007 4:37 pm

      Oh and Desiree, you don’t have lies in place before it is even announced Natalee is missing….and you don’t refer to Natalee as “a body” when you supposedly left her alive and well on the beach begging for sex without a condom. Just in case you don’t know what I am talking about, I’m referring Paulus’ statement…no body no crime…or I don’t know where her body is. Also, you don’t refuse to allow a search of your home. I could go on and on and on. I have followed this case since it was announced on the news she was missing. I have said from the beginning who is guilty and that they will get away with it. Everyone has a right to their opinion as to what happened…this is mine. You don’t like it, then don’t read it.

    104. super dave on January 11th, 2007 4:38 pm

      Indy: the hate sites probably have already kicked that butthole yoyo off their sites. it has nowhere to go. it’s own family (if it has one) doesn’t like it either. it could possibly be one of the suspects or one of their perverted friends.

    105. FL on January 11th, 2007 4:45 pm

      Watch the monkeys in the back at Carlos ‘n Charly’s @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw0Km7ifJQ
      (move slider to 1:52)

    106. Libby on January 11th, 2007 4:50 pm

      It is probably Anita. We are on to her husband and kid…

    107. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 5:17 pm

      Justice For Natalee –

      I liked that collection of important bullet points
      so much… I wrapped it up with a pretty
      bow on it & sent it out in one of my
      worldwide media targeted blasts.

      Signed: Natalee Holloway’s Freebirds

      ……….

      I think Mayan’s post from earlier this morning
      pretty much caps the way I feel about things too.

      It struck a chord with me.

      She said:

      ——–

      “You hurt Natalee & it makes me angry.”

      ——–

      That pretty much says it all, right there.

      I would only like to add…

      To the guilty…

      When you hurt her, you broke her family member’s hearts.

      You broke her many friend’s hearts.

      You broke our hearts. (SM FAMILY)

      You broke my heart.

      We will hunt you down,
      even if it takes 10 years
      to ferret your ass out!

      …and we’re gonna bring an END
      to your breakin’ hearts game.

      That is a promise,
      you can count on that. -J4N

      http://tinyurl.com/y493g3

    108. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 5:52 pm

      Carpe,

      Good to have you back.

    109. Richard on January 11th, 2007 6:45 pm

      Patti (#79), there are reports that one brother of Paulus van der Scum ranks high in the Dutch government. Whether that is relevant, we can only surmise.

      But the Dutch went to Aruba, picked up documents, returned home, and announced that they were going to study the case.

      Must be slow readers, wouldn’t you think?

    110. minnesota dad on January 11th, 2007 7:01 pm

      109 – Richard….

      I believe the Dutch are not going to do a thing.

      As I have adamently proclaimed…this case CAN NOT be solved without reversing the judgements made to isolate and protect Paulus from this case. Aruba has done everything to make it as hard as possible to get at the Perp.

      If the Dutch had an iota of sincerity….or morals…they would have reversed these decisions in the first weeks after they were sent there to review the case.

      The Dutch are just another ‘time delay’ in order to carry this thing until May 2007. ALE could only stall for so long. Bringing in the Dutch was the perfect cover….they come in, grab files, and then go silent for six months.

      This is all part of Cover-Up 101. When you have a legal problem, you just keep stalling and delaying until those harmed get frustrated and just say ‘the hell with it’. In addition…with time, the media goes away.

      Again, the Internet is the great equalizer for lawyers, judges, and governments that choose to be corrupt. Never again can they work their cover-up magic without it being exposed on the Internet for all to see.

      Board up those shops Aruba…..md

    111. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 7:25 pm

      INVESTIGATORS’ BOMBSHELL CLAIM: NATALEE DIED AT JORAN’S HOUSE – AND ARUBAN AUTHORITIES COVERED IT UP

      In a sensational new development in the Natalee Holloway mystery, Aruban police now believe the Alabama teen may have died at the home of prime suspect Joran van der Sloot.

      And island officials protected him by refusing to let cops search the entire property, charges a Dutch investigator.

      Noted crime reporter Peter De Vries also claims that Joran’s attorney made a dramatic bid to “clear his conscience” – secretly telling prosecutors that his client DID play a leading role in Natalee’s disappearance.

      De Vries, host of a popular investigative TV show in Holland, focused on the murder of 18-year-old Natalee, who vanished on May 30, 2005, after leaving a nightclub with Joran and his pals Deepak and Satish Kalpoe. And his findings dispute the leading theory that she died on the beach after she and Joran were dropped off there in the early morning hours.

      Courtesy NE

    112. Roy on January 11th, 2007 7:41 pm

      Patti: It’s a double edged sword that I myself have trouble with. I want a boycott as much as anyone but to see our leaders buckle like they did begs many questions. I’m not referring to a boycott of the lines which has manifested itself (voluntary grass roots)—of which 3 measley states would endorse—-I’m talking about something along the lines of Cuba or iffn it must be voluntary, let it go national….. but that was cut down at the knees and I have to ask why? If Jannsens visit to Bacchus was to demonstrate a positive move towards solving this case, then why all the actions from Aruba to demonstrate otherwise…. No she is black-mailing her sorry butt out of having to do her job……so then, the question in my mind is what are (WE) not disclosing that would prevent this child from coming home.
      I’ve no doubt that Dave and Beth would not have allowed their child to go on a trip where danger could possibly have come to her. But the numerous insinuations out of Aruba has for whatever reason, put this case in a dead-lock. So that crap, in my estimation, needs to be put to rest, so that these parents can have their child back. I’ve played the blame game as much as anyone here but I’m not above pointing it back at ourselves.
      It’s more than Joran’s a liar, K2 are liars, Jannsen’s a liar, Nadira and Anita are liars and Paulus is some sort of evil genius…That is bulls*** and anyone with half a brain knows it….Paulus is a loser, perhaps a perverted one. And prolly involved in the crimes against Natalee as much as anyone. His will come but not just by continually pointing at him… Aruba, Holland, and apparently some in the US would luv nothin more as it drags this case out basically forever, until it is simply a story with no ending and no repurcussions. My fear is that some of these clowns have been coaching the Holloway’s and Beth on how they should act and behave and then break their promises. That’s quite a list with some surprising names.
      So how do we break the dead-lock? If Aruba is blackmailing Bacchus, our current administration, or even persons in Mountain Brook, it seems to me that that needs to take a backseat to bringing this child home to her parents and serving justice. I don’t care who slept with who, who partied at raves on a previous trip to Aruba, or even the totality of everything I suspect, simply that Natalee is brought home….I’m here and have been for a very long time so please don’t ever think that I don’t care….I just run on a tangent that’s a little different than everyone else’s.

    113. JusticeforNatalee on January 11th, 2007 7:44 pm

      The above article was published on Dec. 14.

      It has a lot of good info in it:
      ——-
      The crime scene is now believed to be Joran’s house.

      Natalee died there.

      Joran’s own attorney thinks he’s guilty.

      Joran was protected by Aruban officials.

      The search of the VDS property was blocked.

      There was a coverup in Aruba.
      ——–
      All important info for the American public to read.
      ——–
      To any Aruban reporters, tourist officials, VDS family members/friends, etc. reading this board, take note:

      American tabloids have a HUGE audience. They are placed near the checkout lines in supermarkets where people either read them or buy them. LOTS OF PEOPLE.

      Many, many Americans are aware of the COVERUP in ARUBA.

      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

    114. Patti on January 11th, 2007 8:11 pm

      Richard:

      Well, I think that Minnesota Dad has it right… but we’ll see. All we can do is keep the pressure on them. IMO, the Dutch are just part of the game, but they have already committed themselves. Besides, with all the letters that the queen has received, I doubt that she could ignore the pleas that are coming from folks that have no other agenda other than to receive justice for a girl that should never have disappeared in the first place.

      And then to disappear at the hands of the likes of Joran & Company is like pressing a jagger right into the heart of the American people… There is absolutely no excuse. Joran’s father knew that and now all of Aruba knows that.

      Holland, they will soon find out how determined those with broken hearts can be. You may be able to trick us into looking one direction, while you do your dirty deeds in another , but the disappearance of Natalee Holloway will be uncovered. Sooner or later, the prosecution of those responsible will be carried out and for Joran & Company, it is only a matter of time.

      Optimistically, I hope that Holland is taking this time to assess the damage and come up with answers for the many hard questions that will face them, once they report their findings. I say that because there will be quite a few key positions left unfilled once their decisions are announced. There are bound to be arrests made and I would imagine that The Netherlands will have to do some shifting around to fill those vacancies. There are alot of people that were involved with the cover-up of this crime and an honest assessment will cut a big chunk out of Aruba’s justice department. They have to be concerned about the islands security.

      That is my opinion of what should happen, optimistically; but at the same time, I, just like many people reading this have been tricked and fooled so many times that it is hard to believe that this is anything more than just more tricks.

      Personally, I think that Holland has no other choice. They see the same as us and to turn a blind eye or to ignore the evidence will only make them look bad. So far, The Netherlands have not been tied to this case of lies, deceit and corruption and I doubt that they want all this pain, fueled with anger pointed into their direction.

      The perps are scared. They don’t want even their own people to know the truth, much less speak it, whether on T.V., or over the waves. The Minister of Justice has gone on record as saying that anyone using the internet or communicating with the “aliens” shall be deemed a traitor. Those are very powerful words for a minister of justice and it is obvious that he meant it as a threat. Does Holland support the actions of this man? I doubt that they will… but I cannot hold out any promices.

      Perhaps it’s time for Aruba to suffer the consequences of its actions just as we all have to. The rules that aply to us, must also apply to them; and Holland know that.

      There is no excuse for the crime that has been inflicted against this child that was celebrating her high-school graduation on her trip to Aruba. There is no excuse for the cover-up that followed. There is no excuse for the pain and the suffering that the Aruban authorities inflicted upon the family by concealing the body of Natalee and there is no excuse for them returning her to her home. The life of the boys, whether there was one or a hundred, is not worth the pain that this government has caused the family and the countless friends of Natalee Holloway.

      Again, they are the innocent ones, the victims. For Holland to ignore their cries would be tyranny. I would hope that the tyranny would stop there.

      This is a case of an innocent child that did nothing wrong against a whole army of men that conspired to keep her from her family because of the actions of their sons. The many involved in the corruption are all educated men, fully aware of the consequences of their actions. How sad that they threw their careers, their livelihoods and their reputations upon the line for a few bad men… but they did and not even Holland can take it back for them. All the lies, the deceit and the corruption that they caused, will forever haunt them for the rest of their lives… and Holland will take no part in it.

      On the other hand, if Holland sides with the dishonest ones, then the whole world shall know that the country that we read about, that saved many of the broken and tatterred ones fleaing Germany in the day of the Nazi’s, sold out to a group of powerless tyrants from the island of Aruba.

      Let us pray, everyday, that the strong will prevail over the weak. Let us pray that good will always triumph over bad. Let us pray that the ones that pride themselves for saving a nation has the power to reach back and save a child.

      Holland, we take refuge in you.

    115. Patti on January 11th, 2007 9:10 pm

      Roy:

      You and I have spoken about this before and believe me, I know that you care; perhaps more deeply than many of us can even comprehend.

      The last time that we talked, we were discussing how we could save the people of Aruba in all of this. We all agreed that it was too dangerous to place people in Aruba to help the people understand and be aware of the many reprecutions that are emminent against their government. We talked about the boycott in terms of Aruba being a small island in the hands of a tyrant and we questioned our own humanity… Now we have two dead in Aruba.

      Roy, all we can do is what we do. You were right then and you are right now… but it is too late to turn our back on Aruba.

      I agree with you about Natalee. There is nothing worse than knowing that she is there, still, after all this time; but what is it that we can do to negotiate her return? Is that what you are suggesting, that we lay off the boycott and negotiate? And, what then? We leave Aruba in the hands of who?, the same ones that did this to the Holloways?

      I don’t know what you want… I don’t know the answers, all I know is that, to back down from this boycott while the Dutch are still investigating, is not the answer. We must be strong as we await their decision… and pray that they help us bring Natalee home.

      In the meantime, let’s continue to discuss our options and if there is a better answer, I am sure that we will find it. As for running a tangent, I believe that we are all guilty of that; but, rest assured, I have never looked upon your posts in that way… ever.

    116. yoyo muffintop on January 11th, 2007 9:30 pm

      I guess under IndyDan’s rule of law, Texas will now be one giant prison that houses all of the underage drinkers and all those that fill out their bracket every march. Can you fit about 75 million people in Tx? Spare me your diatribe. Asking for proof or significant evidence – crazy talk, huh? Oh, that’s right, all the evidence against JVDS was destroyed or lost right under the nose of 13 FBI agents…

    117. msmarple on January 11th, 2007 9:50 pm

      yoyo, I think your string broke.

      On any given night, U.S. jails are filled with DUIs and underage drivers – at least until somebody bails them out.

      I personally wouldn’t set foot in a bar or casino crawling with packs of local teenagers. Red flag for me, and sufficient reason not to go to a place like Aruba.

      Teenagers should have more suitable places to go.

      Nothing against teenagers – used to be one – but it’s a whole different mind set.

    118. msmarple on January 11th, 2007 9:56 pm

      The FBI showed up. Aruba said “No Thanks.”

      No evidence because 9? 10? days passed before the cops made a move. That’s what made us so angry.

      Then the spin machine set in. Can’t believe what was done to this family. Or to the DeVries family.

    119. yoyo muffintop on January 11th, 2007 10:16 pm

      msmarple – huh?
      Are you saying it’s OK to drink underage in the US, as long as it’s not in a bar? Where is it “OK” for someone under 21 to go drink? Saying that JVDS is a heinous criminal for drinking and gambling underage is silly, wouldn’t you agree?

    120. Mortella on January 11th, 2007 10:26 pm

      #105 FL,
      Why? What does that video have to do with anything? Those last three girls look fairly professional and like someone Carlos and Charlie’s might hire for entertainment. I see nothing amiss with their performance at all.

      There is one girl just before them up on the bar in a short skirt and the one with the camera tries for a shot up her skirt. Big Whoop! Does that give anybody the right to drug, rape and kill her and make her entire body disappear from the face of the earth?

      Seems a pretty harsh sentence for drinking and dancing on a bar to me. No one has the right to so much as touch another human being against their will no matter what and that includes their being in a state that would render them unable to give permission.

      But thanks for pointing out this attitude. For sure, everybody, stay away from Aruba for if you have some drinks and dance on a bar and somebody sees your panties and you are wearing a thong, you are dead meat according to FL.

      And why call these girls monkeys? More likely Arubans. But the same applies to them, too. Just because a girl is having fun doesn’t give anybody the right to do anything to her. Females are just as entitled to sexual expression as males in case you haven’t heard and evidently you are a bit behind the times like about a century on that one.

    121. Molly on January 11th, 2007 10:28 pm

      #75 Too many messages coming out of Aruba. Like Bulldog. All the public and sensational deaths are a message. Now there is the THREAT from the Minister about communicating with ‘aliens’. Look out Arubans. You are in deep doodoo. Your finances are in danger and now your lives are in danger.

      molly (in Houston)

    122. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 10:31 pm

      Thanks Justice For Natalee, good to be back. ;-)

    123. Mortella on January 11th, 2007 10:39 pm

      #94 Libby,
      I can sure live with myself calling JVDS a rapist for he said so himself and likely a murdered for why else would he lie like a dog.

      Speaking of which, it was a paintball gun he used to kill his dog and that is not a story I started but Arubans told on him for that one.

      Why would they lie when Natalee could have still been alive and could have been rescued? Why tell all those ridiculous and childish tales about what she said unless they knew she was never going to surface to call them on all that stuff they made up. And just how could they be so sure that no Natalee was going to ever surface??? Had to be very sure of that to tell those whoppers to her family and law enforcement.

      And that kind of thing is called circumstantial evidence. Based on that, they are guilty as hell and have brought on themselves anything said about them by lying at a time it could have cost an innocent girl her very life.

      You think! For doing that alone and framing the innocent security guards they deserve the scorn of the civilized world for the rest of their lives. And that is before we even get into what they did with and to Natalee! Of course, that civilized world would not include the Island of Aruba where predators like this are allowed to roam and prey on the young tourist girls on their last night on the island. That is not civilized behavior.

      I wish I could do more to make their lives as miserable and wretched for the rest of their days for their lying and obstruction of justice alone. Just imagine what I would like to do if they truly are as guilty as I think they are. And no, I have no regrets whatsoever for they deserve far worse than anything I can possibly do to them.

    124. Patti on January 11th, 2007 10:49 pm

      Ms. Marple:

      Yo Yo is a muffin, ignore her.

    125. Carpe Noctem on January 11th, 2007 11:04 pm

      LOL

      Hey Patti -

      Great point, I know what you meant.

      …and it was even more
      enjoyable with the Freudian
      Slip!

      #115

      “And then to disappear at the hands of the likes of Joran & Company is like pressing a jagger right into the heart of the American people… There is absolutely no excuse. Joran’s father knew that and now all of Aruba knows that.”

      —-

      That’s perfect! …because everytime I think of Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot – The Unpunished Aruban Rapist/ Murderers of Natalee Ann Holloway -

      I make a face as ugly as a JAGGER…

      Mick!
      -J4N

    126. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:06 pm

      Desiree:

      Have you read your papers lately? The prime minister of Aruba has made a public statement saying that anyone that is caught going on the internet and communicating with the aliens are to be considered traitors. Since then, two people that work in the television industry have been found dead.

      I have asked you to join us in our boycott against the corruption of your government… and you have declined. Now you have returned. What is it that intrigues you? Are you not aware that your life could be at risk by your, meer, presense here? Desiree, if you are not with us in our plea for justice on your island, why would you risk your life to badger us?

      You and I have talked before. I know that you are not happy with the things that are happening on your island, but if you want to change it, I’m with you. But, please, don’t risk your life for nothing… the pleasure that you get from argueing with us is hardly worth the risk.

      Please, go home, pray for justice. Pray for liberty and pray for your freedom against all those that oppress you and wait… soon, it will come.

      That’s love talkin’ and if I were you, I’d listen.

    127. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:15 pm

      Hey Carpe!

      Don’t pick on me… I’m just tryin’ to keep the faith.

      Good to see you back…

    128. msmarple on January 11th, 2007 11:31 pm

      yoyo # 119
      If it is against the law to drink under , it’s against the law. My personal opinion is that the age should be 21; it is hard to enforce whatever it is, wherever.

      But there is no “where” that is appropriate or legal for underage drinking. Technically, not even at home.

      But JVDS, for example, had a VIP pass to C&Cs. Why? How?

      And he was able to gamble. Don’t say he didn’t play for money – papa says he made two trips to the bank to deposit son’s winnings.

      Same with Satish – he was what, 16?

      Of course that doesn’t make them criminals de facto. I do think it’s criminal that parents and various establishments allow/ignore these restrictions, and that there’s not even a slap on the wrist for the offender.

      And according to JVDS, he drinks a LOT when he drinks. I don’t think his odds are very good – when he starts driving, which I guess he does now? Aside from everything else – drinking and driving statistically catches up sooner or later.

      And there ARE more appropriate things that teens, especially those still in high school, should be doing, than gambling and drinking.

      JVDS – supposedly at casinos until 2:00 a.m. on 05/31-06/01/2005? Out late two school nights in a row? (The only two nights in his life we know about … ) Is this typical for teenagers in Aruba?

      Well, whatever – I still wouldn’t want to spend time at a casino or bar with local teenagers – in the U.S., Aruba, anywhere. Not my demographic. I expect most ADULT vacationers would say the same. Possibly your tourism industry people should consider the consequences of not enforcing Aruba’s own laws.

    129. msmarple on January 11th, 2007 11:36 pm

      I am sorry – in my Post #127, some of the characters I used didn’t “fly.” In the first sentence, I am trying to not specify an age for legal drinking:

      “If it is against the law to drink under (whatever age), it’s against the law.”

      Hope parentheses work … left and right arrows don’t!

    130. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:37 pm

      Correction:

      Excuse Me:

      It was the Minister of Justice or Injustice,
      which ever you prefer.

      ooops!

    131. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 11th, 2007 11:41 pm

      Another idea for some of the conspiracy theorists in here.
      I always had this idea in the back of my head that Paulus (assuming he’s involved and then ofcourse is the clean up crew) put Natalee’s remains under the natural bridge and blew it up. He couldn’t keep them forever, if he hadn’t buried her.
      After all I doubt there was a police investigation into the natural occurence.

      ……………….But then I snap out of it.

    132. Miss-Underestimated on January 11th, 2007 11:42 pm

      Roy

      Nadra said they all lie even the big people, I think she was talking cryptic, meaning her and all the ALE and suspects are liars.

      FL
      There wasn’t too many people out and about either, where were all the tourists.
      even on holidays tourist are about.

      Joran stated on tv that someday he will tell what happened, why can’t that be an admission that he knows more than he told Scarem Jannse? Lieruba, where they all lie.

      Is there any recourse for Judge Smid to be charged with obsctruction of justice by not allowing the search?

      That other site is down and the trolls are out in masses

    133. mayan_moons on January 11th, 2007 11:44 pm

      Wow Mortella, my sentiments exactly, just wishing i could do more too. Circumstancial evidence abounds in this case, eyewitness’s who stated Deepak cleaning & vacumming his car between 3:00 & 4:00 am on May 30,2006. Cleaning like crazy trying to sanitize that car so that not even one hair from Natalee’s head could be found inside. Still blood was seen in Deepak’s car, police saw it, official’s saw it and US FBI saw it.

    134. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:50 pm

      Has anyone heard anything about Joel Gove, the man that has gone missing on the island of Saba?

      What do you think about the island’s authorities not allowing his family to post flyers in their attempt to find him? They said that the flyers would be “bad for tourism”.

      Do you think that their excuse was a sock in the nose for those that support the boycott of Aruba?

    135. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 11th, 2007 11:57 pm

      I don’t think any island in all of the caribbean wants to suffer the same fate as Aruba.

    136. Patti on January 11th, 2007 11:59 pm

      Or… if we looked at it from a possitive approach:

      It’s a Compliment –

      Time to hit it… good night

    137. Patti on January 12th, 2007 12:01 am

      GOOD ANSWER, CRIOYO!

      Now you be careful, ya hear?

    138. Desiree on January 12th, 2007 12:06 am

      126. Patti, I will be the next one hanging from a tree because I WILL fight injustice.

    139. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 12th, 2007 12:11 am

      sigh…oh well, as a faithful citizen I say:

      Aruba does lead by example…….i think…….

      Nite!

    140. yoyo muffintop on January 12th, 2007 12:12 am

      Gee, I wonder why we even have a forensic testing lab in Quantico if all you need is a “visual”. Visual is good enough for the car, but not the matress??? You just didn’t like the results.

      and msmarple, I agree with you on #128.

    141. Carpe Noctem on January 12th, 2007 12:16 am

      TRENTON — The ex-wife of missing Trenton businessman Joel Gove is calling on authorities in the Caribbean to bring in America’s FBI to help search for him on the rugged island of Saba.

      http://tinyurl.com/yX6625

    142. Carpe Noctem on January 12th, 2007 12:28 am

      Sun Sentinel – MYSTERY IN ARUBA Photo Book link:

      http://tinyurl.com/vu7uz

      -Justice for Natalee

    143. msmarple on January 12th, 2007 12:32 am

      Crioyo – Can you translate enough of an article about Candeleria Wever to give us the sense of it? It’s on Page 42, I think, of the LCD – not the current one, but the immediately previous one. (Do you know about “LCD” ? In the Forum, Natalee Holloway, Lively Case Discussion. You do not have to register to read in the forum.) Here is a link to the page:
      http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=719&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=820

      I ask, because you mentioned him and this story in an earlier post somewhere. It’s the cocaine/$250,000/Venezuela story. Is he currently or formerly a Minister? What’s Booshi’s connection (he’s mentioned in the article)? Did he HAVE all that money, or is it $250K worth of cocaine?

      Thank you.

    144. mayan_moons on January 12th, 2007 1:25 am

      The visual is achieved by spraying luminol throughout Deepak’s car. That should have been done to the Sloots house & property including all their cars too.

    145. nychic on January 12th, 2007 2:40 am

      mayan -

      Or Completely Replacing The Back Seat And Headliner

      Which According To Beth As Stated On The Tyra Banks Show
      That Is Exactly What Happened To DickPak’s Car -

    146. Richard on January 12th, 2007 6:04 am

      MD, I don’t know what will happen or not. Let me put it this way: if we don’t do our best to keep the pressure on the Dutch by writing, etc., then we are letting the family down. Arguing back and forth on a forum, a year and a half after the event, about who did what really isn’t going to produce any effective action, in my view.

      That isn’t saying there’s anything wrong with doing this, but we can have our theories and debate them ad nauseam. What really matters is getting answers.

      In May the case turns two years old, and I believe that Aruba MAY (but doesn’t have to) classify it as “cold,” in effect saying it’s unsolvable unless new evidence comes in.

      Some people believe that the FBI can then go in, but my suspicion is that even if they did (which is far from certain), there would be a total absence of local cooperation and they would get nowhere.

      The only other step that I can think of to exert pressure on Aruba is to maintain calls for the boycott. I for one will continue to do that.

    147. Richard on January 12th, 2007 6:06 am

      And so far, I still haven’t seen anything to DISPROVE my idea that Natalee was taken off the island by someone with ties to the “Pimps.” Haven’t seen anything to support it, either. I just want to keep all cards on the table and all minds open … but what matters is getting the truth.

    148. SL-Gloria on January 12th, 2007 8:07 am

      Hi Roy:

      I hope all is well with you+family and my best wishes for this year.

      With regards to # 112, Aruba is not blackmailing Bacchus. Remember, an Alabama company was awarded a contract for some big construction project in Aruba. I forget what it was. The most logical explanation is that Arubian officials through Stephen Cohen asked the company to coordinate a meeting with the senator and given all the millions the construction company would be handling, they contacted a lobbyist, paid him a few thousand bucks, and the lobbyist arranged the meeting. Bacchus in turn gets free island accommodations and first class treatment for himself, family, and or friends.

    149. Richard on January 12th, 2007 8:13 am

      Thought I’d post this here … of course, it is utterly irrelevant to the Natalee Holloway case. Came out today.

      http://www.dosmundos.com/Editions%202007/Vol27Issue1-01-04-07/news/news-eng.htm

      NOTICIAS – News

      Sex trafficking now a $16 billion business in Latin America
      BUENOS AIRES – The trafficking of women and girls for purposes of sexual exploitation has become a $16-billion-a-year business in Latin America, according to figures from the International Organization for Migration.
      That amount “is almost half of what is calculated is generated worldwide” by sex trafficking, said IOM’s director for the Southern Cone, Eugenio Ambrosi, in an interview published Wednesday in the Buenos Aires daily Pagina/12.
      Prostitution, he said, “is vying for second place with weapons trafficking as the illegal business that moves the most money after drug trafficking.”
      Ambrosi lamented the fact that trafficking in women has “the advantage … (that) the logistical and investment (costs) are much lower” than in other illicit businesses, and he added that “there’s a connection” between drug trafficking and people trafficking.
      “Sometimes the victims … are recruited to traffic drugs,” he said.
      The IOM chief for Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay said that a procurer “has a net profit of $13,000 per year”" on each woman they exploit.
      “It’s a very large profit with a very low investment,” he said, emphasizing that “it’s horrible … (to use terms like) sell, quote or market” when speaking about people who are being exploited.
      Ambrosi said that in Argentina, “they pay between $32.50 and $1,623 for a woman who can generate $389 per day by being sexually exploited.”
      “We have nothing to tell us that there is any systematic action by the police of the authorities to provide protection (to the procurers), but there could be complicity of individuals who by their own public functions, whether they be police or officials, make the crime easier” to commit, Ambrosi said.
      In February 2006, the IOM joined with the offices of the first ladies of four Latin American nations in an effort to reduce the number of children transported far from their homes to suffer as indentured domestic, agricultural or sex workers.
      Backed by the Inter-American Development Bank, the program focuses on child trafficking in Colombia, El Salvador, Paraguay and Bolivia.
      “The project will not only help combat child trafficking but will also raise awareness on sexual and reproductive health issues and related subjects such as domestic violence,” IOM spokeswoman Jemini Pandya said last year at the organization’s headquarters in Geneva.
      The International Labor Organization estimates that roughly 1.3 million people in Latin America and the Caribbean – most of them women and children – are subjected to forced labor, and the IOM says that one aim of the new project is “to place the subject of human trafficking in school programs and on public agendas.”
      The U.S. State Department publishes an annual report on human trafficking, a phenomenon Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has described as “nothing less than a modern form of slavery.”

      (end of article)

      Note that bit about the complicity of certain individuals in positions of power who are not directly involved in the trade, but who may be complicit in allowing it to happen.

      More than a year and a half later, no sign of Natalee ….

      Just remember, this CANNOT happen to an American. Right?

    150. super dave on January 12th, 2007 8:14 am

      I AGREE WITH MINNESOTA DAD. THE DUTCH ARE AS GUILTY AS THE PERPS.

    151. Richard on January 12th, 2007 8:58 am

      By the way, the FBI and U.S. State Department are sending people to the Netherlands Antilles island of Saba today to look for the missing American man. The governor of the island said they were welcome (although previously the island refused to post missing-person posters, citing concern about the impact on tourism. Maybe they figured out that they might go the way of Aruba).

      There’s one more article I want to post here, and I apologize for doing it. It’s disgusting, and has no direct ties to the Natalee case. So why post it?

      I opined before that the “Pimps,” some of whom are suspected of drugging and raping Aruban girls, might have decided to “move up” and go for some tourists.

      We also know that Paulus van der Sloot, once his son was called in for questioning, took off the Web the Web site that his son and other “Pimps” had used. One might think that the judge-in-training was so anxious to get rid of it that he “forgot” about rules concerning evidence. (Of course, that would be hard to believe, wouldn’t it….)

      Anyway, for that reason and that reason only I’m putting here this article about Internet e-mail exchanges.

      http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/12/Hillsborough/Suspect_dished_to_fed.shtml

      Suspect dished to federal agent online
      Scott Schweickert, accused of helping drug two men who were killed, explained how to do it.
      By CARRIE WEIMAR
      Published January 12, 2007

      ——————————————————————————–
      ADVERTISEMENT

      TAMPA – Scott Schweickert thought he was chatting on-line with a young gay man who wanted to learn more about the torture and bondage underworld.
      Instead, he was revealing secrets to an undercover Drug Enforcement Administration agent who would later use those comments to build a criminal case against Schweickert.
      In his America Online chats with DEA agent Scott Albrecht, Schweickert advises him to use a combination of GHB, which is a central nervous system depressant, and a cleaning solvent called Maximum Impact to force unwilling victims to submit sexually.
      “He will be out, yes,” Schweickert writes, using the screen name MsterScott. “Long enough to get him bound, gagged and naked.”
      Jurors reviewed the transcripts of those chats Thursday as part of the prosecution’s case against Schweickert, who is on trial for conspiracy and assisting in a drug-facilitated crime of violence. If convicted, he faces a maximum of 60 years in prison.
      Authorities believe Schweickert and his alleged accomplice, Steven Lorenzo, used the same combination of drugs mentioned in the chats to subdue Jason Galehouse and Michael Walchholtz, both 26, who were tortured and killed.
      A federal jury found Lorenzo guilty in November 2005. He was sentenced to 200 years in prison.
      In his chats with Schweickert, Albrecht used the screen name SubSkippyTPA to pose as a 32-year-old submissive male who wanted to learn how to dominate his friends. He addressed Schweickert as “sir.” Schweickert called him “boy.”
      Jurors also reviewed transcripts Thursday of instant message chats between Schweickert and Lorenzo, who used the screen name DomDudeforSub.
      The pair first made contact in October 2003, when Schweickert sent Lorenzo an e-mail asking for advice on kidnapping and dominating a young Tampa man they knew as Johnny Torture.
      “If you would care to participate or help in any manner, please let me know,” Schweickert wrote.
      The two quickly struck up an online friendship, sometimes chatting until 5 a.m., about finding unsuspecting victims and making them into sexual slaves.
      At the time, Schweickert had recently moved from his hometown of Peru, Ill., to Orlando and was taking classes to become a personal trainer. He told Lorenzo he looked forward to working in a gym and seducing men who were working out alone at night.
      The pair also discussed trolling high school football practices or college campuses for victims. They spoke extensively about setting up a “dungeon” in a remote location where they would lure men and turn them into sexual slaves.
      “It is scary to think what we could accomplish together if this works out,” Schweickert wrote.
      At one point, Lorenzo talks about making their victims vanish without a trace.
      “A man after my own heart,” Schweickert replied. “I knew I would like you.”

    152. Miss-Underestimated on January 12th, 2007 9:51 am

      Sl Gloria,
      Where did you get this information? I would like to know if in fact it is true so that this can be investigated, we do not want corrupt people running our government. So please post the basis of this information.

    153. vicki on January 12th, 2007 9:52 am

      #148- well I for one[if its true] think that SUCKS big time.

    154. Carpe Noctem on January 12th, 2007 10:13 am

      Patti:

      Hey Carpe!

      Don’t pick on me… I’m just tryin’ to keep the faith.

      Good to see you back…

      ——

      :-) I hope you know I’m jes’ kidding ya!

      I know you do.

      Thanks, glad to be back.

    155. Miss-Underestimated on January 12th, 2007 10:26 am

      Hey Richard, FWIW they found cleaning solvent in the Klaphoes car.

    156. Miss-Underestimated on January 12th, 2007 10:27 am

      Carpe good to see you posting.

      Any word on 1906? I haven’t seen Hammer posting here lately?

    157. Richard on January 12th, 2007 11:22 am

      Miss U (#155) … Nobody wants to believe it, but I still think that there was something incriminating on that Web site of the “Pimps” that PvdS took down. Obviously it wouldn’t be on the level of the filth that features in the article above (well, I wouldn’t think so, anyway), but more likely, something such as “Hey, wouldn’t this be cool….”

      Note the remarks, in the article, about the underground dungeon and making people disappear. This could be straight out of The Collector. If this talk isn’t suggestive of a psychopath, I don’t know what could be.

      Now, who on Aruba has been described as a psychopath?

    158. Miss-Underestimated on January 12th, 2007 11:59 am

      In his America Online chats with DEA agent Scott Albrecht, Schweickert advises him to use a combination of GHB, which is a central nervous system depressant, and a cleaning solvent called Maximum Impact to force unwilling victims to submit sexually

      What cleaning solvent was found in Deepaks pimp mobile?

    159. Molly on January 12th, 2007 12:07 pm

      RICHARD #147: For a while, I have been wanting to ask you: How do you reconcile Carpe’s photos and your philosophy that Natalee was taken off the island? It seems obvious to most that there is a blonde in the bag.

      Also, Richard, isn’t there a fortified compound on Aruba where some wealthy, mafia types live? Could Natalee have been ‘incarcerated’ there? No need to disguise her if she is never allowed out. It could be that those who live in the compound are also the ones who are sending the ‘messages’, i.e. Bulldog, etc.

      If this is not true, then she would have been traded to much higher pimps than the 3turds, and not out in the public view of a brothel.

      This, of course, would be highly probably if your theory is true. Please give your full thoughts to these questions. Thanks so much.

      molly (in Houston)

    160. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 12:19 pm

      BOYCOTT ARUBA

      FOR NATALEE

      AND FOR YOUNG WOMEN

      ALL OVER THE WORLD

    161. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 12th, 2007 12:22 pm

      143.
      Here goes nothing…. enjoy…time for a break.

      Diario 01/09/2007:

      http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/1/9/

      He reportedly paid 250 thousand dollars for his liberty in Venezuela. CANDELARIO WEVER CAUGHT WITH 3 AND A HALF KILO’S OF COCAINE AND 250 THOUSAND DOLLARS.

      ORANJESTAD (AAN) — For a few months now there have been strong rumors circulating that a person from Aruba would have been arrested in the exterior / a foreign country where he would have been found with lots of thousands of dollars and also a few kilo’s of an illegal substance, drugs.

      Because this information kept circulating and ”persisting” and there was a lot of speculation regarding who would be involved, some figuring out and investigations had to have been done to find out in which country of the region the Aruban in question had been detained and what he had in his possesion that got him in trouble with the law.

      After a few months a name began circulating and that’s also why questions were asked regarding a certain Candelario Wever of Aruba who would’ve been involved.

      This is about a Candelario Wever who had been caught with a few hundred thousands dollars and a few kilo’s of cocaine, but how many Candelario Wever’s are there on Aruba and who was this Candelario Wever who supposedly works as an adviser or assistant at a certain government department?

      After intense investigation, foreign documents arrived on which reads a serious case of bribery in which this Candelario Wever of Aruba was involved.

      Like the readers can read today on these foreign documents, it is apparent on October 15th 2006 in Venezuela, two police officers caught three people, Macho, Hector and a Candelario Wever whom were in possesion of 3 and a half kilo’s of cocaine.

      According to these documents, the Candelario Wever of Dutch nationality, identified himself with documents, as Assistant Adviser of the Minister of Health in Aruba (in this document it says ”Araba” but this must be ”Aruba”).

      The two other persons would’ve remained in custody while the Candelario Wever would have managed to free himself with 250,000 Dollars!!!

      A criminal investigation is reportedly being done against the two police officers in Venezuela for accusations of bribery, violation of rules of the deparment of justice and also they are reportedly under investigation for extortion.

      This is a very serious case and the moment has come when light must be shed on who this certain Candelario Wever is who has identified himself in Venezuela as Assistant Adviser of the Minister of Health of Aruba, when he was caught together with the other two persons with three and a half kilo’s of cocaine and 250,000 dollars.

      In Aruba everybody knows a Candelario Wever, whom is Booshi Wever, but as minister and not as any kind of assistand to the Ministry of Health and that’s also why this deal must be clarified, whether there are people misusing names of government employees or officials of Aruba and so putting both the government of Aruba as the minister in charge of the ministry of health in a negative light.

      Because the case took place in a country outside the kingdom of the netherlands where a dutch citizen was detained related to three and a half kilo’s of cocaine and also 250,000 US dollars, the department of external relations of The Netherlands will have to do an investigation to figure out whom this Dutchman carrying the name Candelario Wever is and how he could’ve gotten his liberty with 250,000 dollars and where this money could’ve come from.

      It is not known whether authorities in Venezuela alerted Dutch Authorities about this case or if they are going to seek the arrest of this Candelario Wever, who presented himself as a government official of Aruba, via Interpol.

      (end of article)

    162. Sharon Chicago on January 12th, 2007 12:28 pm

      DID I MISS SOMETHING…What is the outcome of Hollands investigation? Thanks

    163. msmarple on January 12th, 2007 12:42 pm

      CRIOYO – Thank you very much for the translation. klaas just posted it on the LCD (with credit to you):

      http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=724&start=240

    164. Libby on January 12th, 2007 12:43 pm

      Once again, Minnesota dad says it all…see #110. The Dutch aren’t going to do jack sh**. They never had an intention of doing anything but blow more smoke up our a**** hoping we get fed up and go away. We aren’t going away. The media isn’t as focused as it was. I wish there was a way to get them involved again. If we keep the spotlight on them, they will have to do something. The bigger the spotlight, the more their corruption / dangerous island will be exposed decreasing their tourism more and more every day.

      Paulus, Joran, the K brothers and all those involved need to go down. But like Minnesota dad says, the only way that MIGHT happen is to have the judgements that protected Paulus reversed.

    165. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 1:21 pm

      Here is an idea. Why don’t we write Queen Beatrix and ask her what the Dutch investigators plan to do about Natalee’s case.

      We could say that the American public and other Natalee supporters around the world have patiently waited but have heard nothing.

      We are expecting the expert Dutch investigators to crack this case.
      If the Dutch investigators fail or worse yet, choose to ignore Natalee’s case, it will reflect poorly upon the Netherlands.

      It would be really great if letters from various states and countries poured in. Tibro where are you? Can you send one from Australia, please.

      I am just winging it but you get the gist. We need to respectfully let the queen know that we haven’t forgotten about the Dutch investigators and expect results.

      Please be respectful. But you can still make your point.

    166. FL on January 12th, 2007 1:25 pm

      @Mortella (120) I did NOT mention these girls. Just look *behind* these girls and you’ll see the two painted monkeys. Have a better look @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw0Km7ifJQ

    167. The-i's-haveit on January 12th, 2007 1:31 pm

      Big Lou are you related to Kelmal, Gretamule, Johnm

    168. Miss-Underestimated on January 12th, 2007 1:48 pm

      Testing Testing 1-2-3

    169. Richard on January 12th, 2007 1:48 pm

      Molly (#159), first, my ideas are only that … ideas. I’m not committed to them, but I think they have a good chance of being true.

      I know that there is such a place in Curacao (where Amy Bradley disappeared, though that place is not where the U.S. petty officer reported seeing her); I’m not sure of Aruba. My suspicion would be that any top Mafia chieftains, or other people of that ilk or persuasion, would know how to insulate themselves from an incriminating situation of that kind … and also, they would fear treachery from their own kind.

      As for the photos, I have a hard time accepting that someone with a videocamera (or whatever; technology is not my strong suit) just happened to go out one fine day and happen to see a heavy plastic bag with a body inside lying in a boat for all the world to see. This is in no way meant to impugn Carpe Noctem; I just have some skepticism.

      Of course, I could well be wrong and my ideas could all be hooey. Most people probably think they are.

      As you probably remember my posting (everyone is bored with hearing it by now, I’m sure), I’ve been working with the family of Amy Bradley on a volunteer basis for some five years. This is one factor that inclines me to think that in the absence of a crime scene, she may have been handed over to someone.

      There are all sorts of possible explanations; what I’ve thought is that the ‘Pimps,’ who are believed to have drugged and raped Aruban girls, stepped up their fantasies and decided to target some tourists. The tourists on Aruba are conspicuous, seem to be (by comparison) economically privileged, and are generally highly unsuspicious (we’re out for a good time, and we’re American) in the “tropical paradise” that we all know Aruba to be.

      So tourist girls could make an attractive and a vulnerable target. I’m skeptical of Joran’s claim that “We’ve done this 20 times before and nothing happened”; to me, it sounds like the kind of improvised lie that a psychopath (who has no allegiance to the truth) might come up with.

      After all, isn’t it flattering to the adolescent male ego to be thought to have “scored” with so many girls?

      In the article above, there’s mention of one guy fantasizing about underground dungeons and making victims disappear without a trace. This “person” (animal) is gay; it’s impossible to think that some heterosexuals don’t have similar fantasies … our crime stats indicate that they do.

      My point: to what extent might some such fantasy have been tossed around by the “Pimps,” a group in which Joran vdS seems to have been at least a dominant figure?

      So the hypothesis is that, maybe if only to prove his leadership in the group, they decided to go ahead with their idea. The Kalpoes could have gone along to provide “muscle” as part of their acceptance into the world of rich white Dutch kids, of which they clearly were not a part.

      Setting aside the other questions, I think that once Natalee was captured and brought to the other “Pimps,” some of whom might have been on drugs, it might have been decided to stash her somewhere, maybe in a house, maybe on a boat. Clearly, if she were conscious and able to identify her assailants, they wouldn’t let her go.

      Then what?

      We know that human trafficking is huge in Latin America; the article I posted above puts it at a $16 billion industry and says it accounts for about half the world’s total. So the organization exists, there are people in place, there are routes for moving people, there are the procedures, and there are predators ready to enslave people for economic gain.

      The article also states that there are connections between people in this trade and drug traffickers. We know that the latter infest the Caribbean, and have the money to buy up governments (including trainee judges, I imagine).

      Are Joran and the Kalpoes professional slave traders? I think the idea is ridiculous. But could they have read of the trade, or heard about it, in the sensationalized manner of Caribbean newspapers? Don’t see why not.

      In the mind of a psychopath, could this thought, controlling the destiny of one of these “superior” tourists who come and go to Aruba to use it as a playground, have appealed? Would it cater to the image of a “tough guy” who (we are told) has already drugged and assaulted local girls?

      Could be.

      Anyway, I’m leaving out a lot because of time, and because most people aren’t interested. But it all depends on how psychotic, or how wannabe violent, some of these people are.
      It only takes one leader to corrupt a group, if they are prepared to be led or misled.

      South America and the drug lords are nearby. No problem getting Natalee handed over for someone with the right connections, such as Lorenzo van Rijn. And that lets the “Pimps” wash their hands of the problem … possibly ingratiate themselves with their drug source … and, perhaps of most importance to the mind of a psychopath, establish total control over this girl’s destiny.

      So this is why I think the psychological aspects are of crucial importance. I don’t want to drone on any more, but I’ll be glad to answer any more questions … remembering always that this is only a theory.

      But the $26 billion business of trafficking in Latin America evidently is NOT just a theory.

    170. Richard on January 12th, 2007 1:51 pm

      Justice for Natalee (#165), I’m planning to get another letter done this weekend. Let’s include reference to the American man missing in Saba, part of the Netherlands Antilles, and that government’s refusal to post missing-person posters because that would be bad for tourism.

      And, of course, remember Amy Bradley.

    171. Patti on January 12th, 2007 2:08 pm

      Hey Crioyo!

      Maybe yuo can help me, too. ???

      When I was in Puerto Rico, I remember my friends talking about a man that was hung by a gang… and I remember them saying that it was evident that it wasn’t suicide. The jest of it was that there is a secret sign that is given by the one being hung. If he has his hand in his pocket, it is a hint to those that find him and his family that he was not responsible for his death and that he is being murdered.

      Have you heard that, as well?

      I know that this must sound very strange to most Americans but the families of Puerto Rico have been fighting wars with gangs for years. There are hangings that take place there, too. In fact, it is not that odd for one to be murdered in that fashion. In the U.S., we used to call it lynching, and it was done most commonly by an American gang of sorts – the KKK – as a sign to it’s resisters.

      Do you know anything about this?

    172. vicki on January 12th, 2007 2:09 pm

      HEY ALL SM- just an update. The person I am speaking with in DC has been out thurs and friday. Since Monday is a holiday, I will try him on friday.
      Carpe, good to see you back..
      No word on 1906??? Please post.. we miss you

    173. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 2:13 pm

      Great idea, Richard and thanks for writing.

      Minnesota Dad, have you written to anyone about voiding the judgments? Please consider writing to an official (Dutch or American) or sending your idea to Dave or Beth.

    174. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 2:16 pm

      Noordeinde Palace
      Her Majesty Queen Beatrix
      Postbus 30412
      2500 GK Den Haag
      The Netherlands

    175. Patti on January 12th, 2007 2:45 pm

      Vicki:

      I’m so glad that you are doing this for Natalee and her family. You have a big heart and I sense that the reason that you are being so successful is because you speak from it and the love shines through.

      Great Job, Girl!

    176. SL-Gloria on January 12th, 2007 2:48 pm

      #152, Miss-Underestimated:

      That type of negotiation is not corruption, it’s lobbying, and a well-accepted practice in the political arena, al all levels, Community, State level and in Washington also.

      Everyday, in the offices of members of Congress, at the House of Representatives, at the Senate, at the different committees established by Congress, groups of people that act on their behalf, or act on behalf of others for their personal gain, seek to influence the decision of governmental officials and actions. They do it by informal meetings, they do it through committees conformed by legislators. Sometimes they exert heavy pressure such as bribery, sometimes they do an honest to goodness job by facilitating the decision making processes that will favor the majority of our people, sometimes the lobbyists influence by giving campaign monies and other types of contributions. Other times, the politician and the lobbyist, which may be a firm or an individual, exchange favors or make multipartite agreements.

      Washington is full of law offices, crisis management experts, PR firms and many other types of service specialists that live to protect their interest and those of others that hire them.

      In all honesty, you don’t need facts from me to know that all this goes on. Just read the papers, watch the news, or see any old American film about Washington and its wheeling and dealings.

    177. Richard on January 12th, 2007 2:53 pm

      JusticeforNatalee, have you figured out the correct way of addressing the queen (“Dear Beatrix” might not be appreciated) and of making the closing salutation (ditto for “See ya later, honey”)? These things probably matter when dealing with royalty. I can’t find this info.

      Incidentally, in my comments above … skepticism about the Chicago videos is in NO way to be seen as doubt in the good faith and integrity of Carpe Noctem. Not at all.

      I don’t profess to have the answer. Many people here think the crime scene (death scene?) was at the van der Sloot house. If so, why the commotion at the Aruban rocks?

      The role of Shango still remains a mystery.

      But to me, the extent of the Aruban cover-up implies that they are terrified about what American reaction would be if the truth about Natalee’s fate became known. And that, to me, suggests her possible sale to criminal rings.

      (It’s also possible that she had been held on board a vessel while her captors looked for someone to take her. Finding nobody wanted to run the risk, they then resolved the situation. That could allow both this theory and the videos. All I know is, I don’t know the answer.)

    178. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 12th, 2007 3:10 pm

      171.

      I’m afraid I have no idea. Haven’t heard anything like it.
      And the hangings here are pretty much old news already.

    179. vicki on January 12th, 2007 3:14 pm

      Thanks Patti, I give all credit to the Lord. I pray I can make a difference and get some justice for Natalee and her family and friends.If you all get a chance look back at that picture of FREAKIN Cdeber giving Beth a FAKE HUG…disgusting…he makes me sick

    180. super dave on January 12th, 2007 3:22 pm

      in the 1800′s hanging was the # 1 cure for horse theives, murder, and sometimes just for bad behavior.

    181. Patti on January 12th, 2007 3:26 pm

      Richard:

      I think that when addressing the queen, perhaps “Your Honorable Majesty” as a salutation and “Sincerely, or Yours Truly” would suffice.

      SL Gloria:

      Roy was not speaking of lobbying, he was talking about blackmail. Incinuating, that someone is using dirty tricks and broken promices to manipulate the mother of a missing child. I don’t know if I get your point and I may be out of wack, but, is it possible that certain people that were present, perhaps the ones that took the pictures at the rocks, are using them to embezzel money from the family; who, at this point would be happy just to have their daughter for burial?

      I’ll tell you… if that IS what has been going on and Beth is being told to do certain things for information about Natalee… then we have an on-going crime… perhaps one that will never end, until we get those that are responsible behind bars.

      I think that the comments that he made regarding U.S. officials is that he thinks that they will continue to look that other way, as they have been known to do in the past.

      Is that a reason to give up? Hell no.

      Boycott Aruba

    182. super dave on January 12th, 2007 3:30 pm

      #33: how do we know you are being truthful ?

    183. Patti on January 12th, 2007 3:32 pm

      Crioyo:

      Are you serious? Old News???

      Here and around the world, if a news producer or a cameraman is attacked and dies of “superspicious” circumstances, such as a hanging, it is investigated and looked upon as a death of a diplomat. We treasure our right to report the news and the rights of others, to receive it. We call them, in loving terms, correspondents.

      Are hangings, or suicide by hanging common in Aruba?

    184. Patti on January 12th, 2007 3:53 pm

      Super Dave!

      Good to see you back, too.

      Do you find it troubling… this second hanging in little over a week?

      I agree with your statement about the 1800′s, but do you also remember that in the 1900′s people were still being lynched?

      Most suicides that you hear of in the U.S. from hanging are done in the privacy of their homes… rarely right out in public. And the hangings that you speak of for the horse thieves, et al were “public” as a deterent to those that think that they can get away with crime.

      If you were going to hang yourself and you went to all the trouble of climbing a roof of a house with a rope, would you, then, put your hands in your pockets? Look at the picture… his pockets look as if they are hanging out as well.

      What the ?!?!?!?!??

    185. Tibrogargan on January 12th, 2007 3:55 pm

      #165 & # 174 Justice. Consider it done. Also I know that if any of her loyal subjects write to the Queen of England the letter starts : “May it please Your Majesty” so I guess that would be suitable for the Queen of the Netherlands.

    186. Sharon Chicago on January 12th, 2007 3:56 pm

      #110…OK read your speculations…but what are the facts as they stand right now in regard to the Dutch doing this investigation. What are they saying? … “still ongoing”, or “we have closed the case?”…”We will close the case in June if no new evidence appears”?…. ” no commenting since investigation is going on as we speak? Please advise thanks much…

    187. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 4:19 pm

      Excellent, Tibro. Thanks!

    188. Richard on January 12th, 2007 4:29 pm

      Sharon, maybe others know more than I do. But so far, I haven’t heard anything about what the Dutch are or are not doing, or might do, or plan to do. They’ve been mute.

      Meanwhile, here’s a news snippet from the front page of today’s (Jan. 12) Wall Street Journal:

      French police arrested Russian billionaire and Norilsk Nickel CEO Prokhorov, suspected of running a prostitution ring at an Alpine resort.

      (end of brief)

      So a top company official and a billionaire is involved with this sort of thing (which must involve ties to drug lords as well) in Switzerland?

      If something like this can happen in Switzerland, then what protection is there from it in Aruba? Or from someone being snatched?

    189. Patti on January 12th, 2007 4:37 pm

      Isn’t it A-Muzzel-ing:

      The Minister of Justice, Mr. Croes, has made a public statment:

      Don’t speak to aliens, or else!!!

      What a putz….

      What’s wrong with him?

      Afraid of a little investigation?

      Aruba-Vice is at the latreen after “doing their job”
      and pissing on anything and everything descent…
      they are washing their hands…

      The Netherlands: Is there any blood on your hands?
      We’re all waiting to hear from you.

      Boycott Aruba… til it Rocks!

    190. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 5:09 pm

      #177 Richard,

      I can’t remember the exact way that Robert suggested.

      I plan to use “Her Majesty,” for the salutation.
      That seems respectful enough to me and beats “Hey there.”

      For the closing, I plan to use “Respectfully” or “Sincerely” or something along those lines.

    191. Patti on January 12th, 2007 5:12 pm

      Richard:

      Frank has a very, very good post on a story from The Netherlands.

      It’s on the front page “No Body, No Crime” story…

      Very interesting, Sherlock…

    192. JusticeforNatalee on January 12th, 2007 5:13 pm

      If anyone knows the exact way to address Queen Beatrix, please post it.

      Otherwise, I think we should wing it the best we can–just use respectful terms.

    193. minnesota dad on January 12th, 2007 5:26 pm

      Sharon,

      The only facts I base post 110 on are past history as how cover-ups are dealt with…whether in the Caribbean or the US.

      It is all about buying time. Eventually the story will disappear and die. In the meantime, it is important to make it look like something is being done.

      The Dutch are merely another cog in the cover-up.

      Since before the Dutch hit the island I have been hammering that they should reverse/void all judgements made to protect Paulus from his crimes. The Dutch aren’t doing this.

      How can the Dutch properly investigate this crime when the main perp, who was arrested and jailed in this case, is immune to questioning? How can the Dutch properly investigate the case when the crimescene has been protected from search by black robed friends of Paulus?

      When the Dutch investigators show up, grab a few files, and say, “Hey, we’ll get back to you.” without dealing with Paulus….the writing is on the wall. The perps are going to walk in 5 months as the case will be declared “cold” despite no proper interrogation,investigation (where’s Paulus’ timeline?) or search of the main perpetrators home. md

    194. Patti on January 12th, 2007 5:34 pm

      Lady Justice:

      I think that your letter, alone, without worry about the
      salutation is going to touch her heart. If it doesn’t, she
      doesn’t have one.

      Keep up the faith and if there is anything that I can do to
      help, please let me know.

      I think I’m gonna work on some letters this week-end.
      Justice, you lead by example and I, for one, will
      follow; but your undying dedication to this cause for
      the family of Natalee Holloway, is astounding.

      Good Luck!

    195. Sharon Chicago on January 12th, 2007 5:48 pm

      #193…I hope you are wrong in your theory…but I understand why you are thinking this will be the outcome.
      I pray it is not… I can only hope somewhere in the link of crime that there is a weak link that will talk if they have not already and this will lead to uncovering Natalee’s murder crime.

    196. Sharon Chicago on January 12th, 2007 5:51 pm

      #188…Thanks for the update Richard … so true on what you said

    197. Molly on January 12th, 2007 5:52 pm

      RICHARD: Thanks for all the discussion. I’ll respond later. Time to fix supper.
      Thanks,

      molly (in Houston)

    198. Maggie on January 12th, 2007 6:27 pm

      People who commit heinous crimes usually look like everyday ordinary citizens, that’s how they win people’s trust. To say all Joran has been shown doing is gambling and drinking underage is a joke. If they wore a big sign on their head, we could all spot them and lock them up ahead of time.

      Moreover, Dompig says, this summer F.B.I. profilers completed a detailed psychological evaluation. “He struck us, and the F.B.I., as a guy who can make you believe he’s God’s gift to mothers-in-law,” Dompig says. “But if you look at his actions, he’s anything but. The F.B.I. profiled him as a person who never has been corrected by his parents. He’s the boss of what happens in that house. He’s the boss in the family. He is allowed to do anything…. If a person like that is in a position where a person says, ‘No,’ well, that person may change completely. Maybe he blew a fuse when she wouldn’t have sex with him, and something happened.”

      Vanity Fair…

      48 hours…..

      Police say they could not listen in on the conversations between Paulus and his son, citing that they were “privileged conversations.”

      Dompig says he believes Paulus van der Sloot does know more than he has been telling about the circumstances surrounding Holloway’s disappearance.

      Dompig says while Joran van der Sloot wasn’t subjected to questioning in the middle of the night, there were late sessions.

      “So he was deprived of sleep but it wasn’t going on for days?” Roberts asked.

      “No,” Dompig replied.

      Dompig says it almost worked. “There were several moments where Joran almost broke. Several moments,” he says.

      Asked what FBI profilers told Dompig about van der Sloot’s psychological profile, he says, “They use the word sociopath. And the fact that he was capable of lying about basically everything.”

    199. Maggie on January 12th, 2007 7:05 pm

      #167 the-i’s-have-it, that was my same thought a few days ago when they corrected me about 75proof rum,,, JohnM was the only one who did that before.

    200. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 12th, 2007 7:19 pm

      patti..

      It was just ruled a suicide according to me.
      It was reported in the media as a suicide..Everyone i spoke
      to refers to it as a suicide. Nobody’s suspicious in any way. I don’t know if there’s a special investigation I’m unaware of but I assume there was and that it lead to nowhere.

      And then people move on to other more current issues.

      I don’t know what’s common. I know it happens a couple of times a year for sure. I’d have to compare the suicide rate with that of other countries.

      (I think it’s that laidback ”oh well, what’s next” attitude prevalent in the caribbean that can be frustrating to outsiders..)

    201. Patti on January 12th, 2007 7:23 pm

      Maggie:

      What is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?

      I look at him, and I see a monster… hiding behind his
      father’s money and power…

      But, then again, I look at Paulus and I see, yet, another
      monster….

      How many Monsters can one island have?

      Do you think it odd ~~~ that Joran is attending school in Holland? Personally, judging from his looks, I think he’s a sucker-thumb. But… then again, his Dutch family has enough strings to be able to pull. Do we know of atleast one?

      Has anybody done any research on him? He’s got to be a
      piece of work… sending his weird brother and his psychopath son to Aruba to reek some havoc and then, what? Back to Holland to reek some more? What does this kid have that we don’t?

      Are they not concerned about their own citizens? Why would the island of Aruba allow him to run loose, like a mad dog preying after their young? There is something terribly wrong in Aruba.

      I think it’s called… Corruption!

      The corrupt island of Aruba, that allows their own people to live amongst their psychopaths.

      What sha hiding, Oduber? You do one, too many favors?

      Hey! You got any inherited psychological diseases in your tree? Or are you that way, just cause you like it?

      I love your posts Maggie!!! I always have… you got heart!

    202. Patti on January 12th, 2007 7:35 pm

      Crioyo:

      What I’m concerned about is the number of hangings…

      Do you know of any others?

      Take a look at the picture of him. His pockets look as
      though they had just been turned inside out and then
      pushed, hastily, back in. And then, too, he has his hand
      in his pocket.

      Perhaps I will do some research and see if I can find out
      any more about that. I believe that it was a sign, amonst people in this country that they did not, of their own choosing, leave this world and their many loved ones.

      Thank you.

    203. Patti on January 12th, 2007 8:01 pm

      Crioyo:

      What is the custom in your country as
      punishment for a “Traitor” ???

      You don’t worry about being here? I worry for you… but
      that is not fair. I do this because, I want to, for Natalee
      and for the countless other victims of injustice, many of
      them missing from their families with no place else to go.

      And why do you come here?

      Did you see Desiree’s post last night? I thought that was
      sweet, but I don’t want anything bad to happen to her, or
      you.

    204. Patti on January 12th, 2007 8:14 pm

      Crioyo:

      Don’t you get it? They never investigate ANYTHING in Aruba.
      If the police say it is a suicide… they all say the same.

      Do you have any public interest stories on T.V. about the
      cause of suicide? You’re country has an extremely high
      rate. Are your ministers not concerned for it’s people?

      Japan’s rate of suicide started climbing, and they nipped it
      in the bud. What does your Minister of Health do?

    205. yoyo muffintop on January 12th, 2007 8:23 pm

      molly in Houston – obvious to most there is a blond female in the bag? Do you know that the “body in the bag” was debunked by Art Wood?
      Now you do.

    206. Maggie on January 12th, 2007 9:08 pm

      According to this sociopaths and pyschopaths are the same thing.. and thanks Patti!

      If you only know one thing about psychology, you should know about sociopaths. Being aware of sociopaths could help you avoid emotional trauma, ruined finances, even an untimely death.

      Sociopathy, also called psychopathy, is a personality disorder characterized by deceit on a scale most of us cannot imagine. These people are not crazy; they know exactly what they are doing. Here is how Robert D. Hare, Ph.D., begins his book about psychopaths, Without Conscience:

      “Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret.”*

      Why is it so critical for you to know about sociopaths? Because millions of sociopaths are living among us. Yes, many of them are criminals, locked up in jail. But far more are on the street, hurting people without breaking laws, operating in the gray areas between legal and illegal, or simply eluding the authorities. They can appear to be normal, but they pose a tremendous threat to us all.

      Sociopaths exhibit a range of behaviors. In fact, Dr. Hare diagnoses them according to their score on a scale. So just as you could describe someone’s intelligence as ranging from smart to genius, you could describe a sociopath as somewhere between sleazy and serial killer. If you see sleazy, he may be on the low end of the scale, but he’s still bad news.

      This web site is dedicated to informing you about sociopaths so you can protect yourself. Learn to spot the behaviors that might indicate someone is a sociopath. These people do not change. They cannot be rehabilitated. The sooner you can get away from them, the better off you’ll be.

      http://www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/what_is_sociopath.html

    207. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 13th, 2007 2:10 am

      Well there’s a slight possibility our minister of health & sanitation spends his free time in Venezuela buying cocaine but that’s just random speculation. I know he’s a wife beater but that’s his personal situation and btw his daughters are very good looking.

      Nopes no public interest programs on tv about such topics.
      There are talkshows on tv but those are mostly political, sports or about life stories. and I think there’s a cooking show. Aruba doesn’t have anything close to 20/20, Dateline or 60 minutes.

      It’s hard to open your mouth publicly about sensitive topics without getting half the island against you and being used as someone elses political chess piece. If you are a person of influence that is. Otherwise you’ll either be ignored or declared crazy.

      Don’t know about punishment for a ”traitor”. There’s nothing really they can do, other than going on the radio and mentioning your name and if you or your family happens to be a ranking government employee they can try to get them fired i guess and replace them with someone of their liking but other than that nothing legally.

      Sometimes I just don’t understand Rudy. He means well, he really does, but he’s not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to common sense. Sadly most government officials don’t have the qualifications required to be what they are today and so everything will be half done, half right and half accomplished. I think Nelson Oduber took a random course in politics at a certain point in life and that’s about all he ever did educationaly. Rudy is pretty much s.o.s. as are the rest of the old garde and with a parliamentary majority they can do whatever they want and so for the past 6 years and the next 2 aruba will basically be a communist country.

      ……Nothing compared to for example Rudy Lampe who has 1 seat in parliament. The only politician I’d trust. Maybe you guys should send him a letter….

      http://www.red.aw/lampe.php

      There’s only one other person in the world who knows who Crioyo really is. I don’t mind posting here because even if I rarely agree with most views expressed here I still haven’t got anywhere else to turn to for some decent discussion about the NH case and believe it or not I still believe in justice.

    208. Richard on January 13th, 2007 6:57 am

      Maggie (#s 198 and 206), thanks very much for posting those informative excerpts. This is one reason I discount the Joran statement that everyone else is pointing to; namely, that one about “We’ve done this at least 20 times” ….

      I don’t think we can take ANYTHING that Joran van der Sloot says as necessarily true. It might be; it might not be; most likely it has shadings of truth.

      Hey, folks, look: he just picked a round number out of the hat, so to speak. Are we to believe that he was carrying the number of foreign girls he’d been with in his mind?

      Nope … methinks it was a totally improvised statement, the kind you or I might make if, say, we got lost going somewhere. “I’ve been there hundreds of times and never got lost before!” It’s not necessarily true and it’s not meant to be true; just an attempt to save face.

      In Joran’s case, I think it shows his modus operandi: just going ahead and making up a lie. The point is, of course, if he IS a true psychopath then that’s second nature to him.

      Nobody thinks that Joran van der Sloot is a mass murderer, but if you read some books about Fred and Rosemary West (you’d better have a strong stomach to do so; they were among Britain’s most prolific serial killers), you’ll see how they work. Fred West, once the police arrested him, lied constantly, nonstop, and contradicted his own stories within the period of hours.

      Joran van der Sloot has done exactly the same thing.

      And I find it potentially significant that one thing he has never said (unless I missed it) is that Natalee might have been taken off the island.

      “I’ll laugh if they find the girl alive.” Besides the obvious callousness and contempt implied in that remark, it could imply that he knows there is the possibility that they might … but he thinks things will be done, if necessary, to prevent that.

      Or, alternatively, that the conditions under which she was held, or her destination, and the purpose of her being taken there, might make her survival unlikely.

      And I could be way off the mark, of course.

      Meanwhile, wonderful news from Missouri, where the “show me” state did show us a miracle. A kid missing for five years was found, apparently (like that Austrian girl held in the basement for eight years) at the latter stage of his captivity able to move about freely.

      What we might call brainwashing, only more complex, perhaps.

      Remember Amy Bradley, kidnapped from the cruise ship in March 1998. Consider the difference between being held captive in your own culture and being held captive in a foreign culture, where the rules (and possibly the language) are not yours, the familiar sources of protection are not known or are corrupt, and there is nobody whom you know you can trust.

      Let’s hope for the best, for Amy and for Natalee. Both are our freebirds, and both are all our daughters. (Not to slight the case of the missing American on Saba.)

      And let’s decide that it’s time to start protecting our own people. Boycotting Aruba is a moral imperative.

    209. Richard on January 13th, 2007 11:39 am

      Crioyo, thanks for doing the translations. If you believe in justice, I hope that through conversations and the like you will help keep Arubans interested in the Natalee Holloway case … and curious about the government’s evident determination to do nothing about it.

      Meanwhile, here’s an update on the American man missing in Saba. Whaddya know, another “crime-free” island in the Netherlands Antilles (so close to Curacao) where nobody ever has disappeared before. Until now, that is.

      Of course, that doesn’t mean they’re going to allow posters to be put up … might spoil their tourist image.

      How to say “shooting yourself in the foot” in Papiamento?

      http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/16450608.htm?source=rss&channel=inquirer_local

      Posted on Sat, Jan. 13, 2007
      U.S. aids in search for lost N.J. man
      Philadelphia Inquirer
      American officials were dispatched to the tiny Caribbean island of Saba yesterday to make sure authorities there are doing all they can to find a Trenton businessman who was reported missing during Christmas week.
      Joel D. Gove, 47, was last seen Dec. 28 hiking alone through the island’s lush and rugged landscape. What happened to him next is a mystery.
      According to local police, no one has ever disappeared from their little pocket of paradise. Unfit hikers have gone missing for a couple of hours, but have always been found within a few hours on the island’s trails.
      Gove’s disappearance is different. In two weeks of searching the island’s five square miles, searchers have found no trace. He is said to be an experienced traveler and outdoorsman with the skills of a survivalist who could navigate by the stars and the sun.
      An attache from the FBI arrived on Saba yesterday to consult with the police. Saba is part of the Netherlands Antilles.
      An American consul to the islands, based on Curacao, is scheduled to arrive in Saba this weekend to help supervise the search, said Patrick Creamer, a spokesman for Rep. Chris Smith (R., N.J.).
      The congressman was contacted by Gove’s family, Creamer said, after relatives felt slighted by Antillean authorities.
      Gove, father of a 15-year daughter and owner of an environmental-consulting business, arrived on Saba on Christmas Day for a week of reading and relaxation, said Lynn Ashton, who works for Gove’s Habitat Management & Design Inc. in Trenton.
      Traveling alone, Gove rented a villa for $150 a night. The red-roofed, whitewashed bungalow had three bedrooms and was perched on a ledge overlooking the sea.
      The island is a favorite of scuba divers and outdoorsmen. Though a short flight or ferry ride from St. Martin, it remains unspoiled by tourism.
      “There is no crime here,” said Angelika Hartleib, who owns the El Momo Cottages and manages the nearby Mountain Spring Villas where Gove stayed. “We leave the keys in the car and have no locks on our houses. That’s how safe it is here.”
      Gove was scheduled to check out Dec. 29, Hartleib said. Housekeeping staff found Gove’s passport, money and other belongings Dec. 30 in the villa.
      Only Gove’s camera and sunglasses were gone from his room. Hartleib called the police.
      Officials ordered a massive search. Firefighters probed the interior of a sulfur mine. Police helicopters hovered over ravines and the rocky coastline. Marine authorities combed the waters.
      Within hours, word of the disappearance reached Trenton.
      Wasting no time, Gove’s brother, Brad; ex-wife, Amy Gonzalez; and coworker Lynn Ashton arrived on Saba on New Year’s Day.
      They scoured the island, searching the path they believed Gove had taken.
      “Anywhere we thought he might go off the trail, we went, too,” said Ashton.
      She discounted the possibility that Gove slipped from a trail and fell into the sea.
      “It’s so densely vegetated,” she said. “If you fell, you’d be caught by something.”
      After a week of searching, the three returned home, dismayed.
      Gove’s friend Mark Shourds said he planned to go to Saba next week for another search.
      Shourds spoke with Gove Dec. 22.
      “There was no reason he would want to disappear,” Shourds said. “And he sure didn’t sound depressed.”
      Shourds held out hope that Gove might still be found alive.
      “I want to make sure they haven’t left any rock unturned,” Shourds said. “We have an organization that is trying to collect money so if we need to bring in a new dog team or a helicopter, we can.”

    210. Carpe Noctem on January 13th, 2007 12:59 pm

      YoYo says:

      molly in Houston – obvious to most there is a blond female in the bag? Do you know that the “body in the bag” was debunked by Art Wood?
      Now you do.

      —-

      Hey Yo, rather than acting
      like such a flippant
      know-it-all goofus…

      re #205

      Why don’t you publish for molly the exact email text
      about the MARRIOTT BASIN BAG that you were telling
      klaas about a couple of weeks ago? Ya know, what Art
      told Natalee’s family.

      Now that would be a post worth tuning for! -J4N

    211. Carpe Noctem on January 13th, 2007 1:01 pm

      A very ARUBA CHRISTMAS?

      Me THINKS NOT. Watch out for the bugs & Anneke!

      I tracked this down in my latest
      Google Blog Searches.

      http://tinyurl.com/ylzXcw

      -J4N

    212. minnesota dad on January 13th, 2007 1:32 pm

      Come on folks…theories keep getting presented here….but the truth is already out….

      Paulus is your perp…

      ALE has no timeline for Paulus on the night of Natalee’s disappearance.

      Paulus, in fact, has contradicted himself saying he got in at 4am and then switching it to 11pm once a story was made up.

      ALE and the judiciary blocked a search of Paulus’ home.

      A blood soaked mattress is found and not sent to Holland with other evidence. Weeks later, someone leaks a picture of Paulus receiving a furniture delivery (replacing that mattress Paulus???).

      Aruban/Curacao judges releasing Paulus as a suspect….yet it is clear that a full investigation was never even attempted. Conflict of Interest was beyond overwhelming in this decision.

      Aruban/Curacao judges agree to pay Paulus $30,000 for his arrest…yet they have not paid the two black stooges or the three accomplices. This decision makes it doubly difficult to reverse prior Conflict of Interest rulings and was intentionally done to make it almost impossible to solve this case. This ruling also had Conflict of Interest beyond what one would describe as overwhelming.

      We have the leaked ‘Chicago Videos’ which clearly show a crime scene investigation. It also appears that Paulus and Joran were at this crime scene.

      We have Paulus fighting from having the FBI join in the investigation on the case.

      This case is very simple. Natalee, sometime over the course of the evening ended up in Anita and Paulus’ home. What happened to her up to that time is unknown, but it is pretty clear that a sexual assault by the pimps took place based on testimony (and many of the pimps getting out of dodge before they could even be interrogated).

      As evidence in the blood soaked mattress and through statements of the accomplices, “something bad happened”. What this is, one can only speculate but, again, it is clear that a sexual assault which would result in 8 years in the pokey for J2K is a slam dunk on this case based on statements by those within ALE.

      I am one that believes that Paulus finished Natalees life off. It is very clear, based on his behavior in the days after this (from helping J2K cook up stories, to advising them on ‘no body, no crime’, from sweating like a man that was terribly haunted by what he did in his interview, to running down the street with a jacket over his head to avoid the media, to hiding in the bushes on his compound and taking twenty minutes to answer Beth Holloways pleas to talk. His conduct has never stood up to one who is innocent of wrongdoing. The conduct of his black robed friends and those in ALE also do not stand up to supporting Paulus’ innocence of wrongdoing.

      People can place their thoughts up here regarding sex trafficing or other theories…..in the end, none stack up to the simple opinion supported by many facts that Natalee’s life ended on a mattress in Paulus Van Der Sloot’s home.

      Finally, does everyone notice how Paulus has been very quiet on this case? While the spotlight remains on the boys….where is Paulus??? Why didn’t Paulus have a press conference outside the courtroom when they were asking for Joran to be released as a suspect??? I again believe that ALE will keep spotlights on the accomplices, J2K up until May 30th…when they will release them. DESPITE THE CLEAR EVIDENCE AND STATEMENTS THAT A SEXUAL ASSAULT/RAPE TOOK PLACE THAT EVENING. J2K cannot hang on this…for if they hang, Paulus will hang and the onion will be peeled. WILL NOT HAPPEN! This does not mean that I do not want to see justice served on the creeps…it means that when a cover-up is being orchestrated by government actors this is what you get.

      So….DUTCH INVESTIGATORS….WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REVERSE THE JUDGEMENTS THAT WERE MADE TO PROTECT AND INSULATE PAULUS FROM HIS CRIMES??? Without doing this it is clear that you have NO intentions of solving this case. md

    213. Pearl on January 13th, 2007 3:19 pm

      MD – you summarized the facts well.

      It has always been Paulus the source of the most chilling cruelty in words spoken in this case: “Without a corpse, there is no case”. Conveniently, Paulus’ judge friends ruled in his favor, as you pointed out, in order to remove him from the heinous criminal activity engaged in by all the kidnappers, rapists and murderers of Natalee Holloway who violated her human rights, taking from her everything she ever loved including life itself.

      I have always wondered, MD: Why did Karin Janssen and the ALE “begin” their big “investigation” by:

      1. Not taking an immediate statement from Satish on 5/31, at 3 AM in the morning, when they knew that according to Joran and Deepak, they ( Joran, Deepak AND SATISH) had all been together and had taken Natalee away from C&C in their car, with two out of the three then claiming on 5/31 at 3 AM, to have “dropped her off at the Holiday Inn” where she was approached by a “dark skin man IN THE LOBBY”? Didn’t Janssen want to get right on the case? Didn’t the ALE want to get on this immediately and perhaps learn from SATISH whether he had anything IMPORTANT to contribute to the description of this “dark skinned man”? Why would you wait – lengthy hours, when using this first lie, you already know that something is seriously amiss since Joran and Deepak were claiming that Natalee had safely made it back to her hotel and INTO THE LOBBY, yet – there was no sign of her. Wouldn’t that be an immediate signal for the ALE to be “concerned” and get Satish immediatley to “get on the case” and “leave no stone unturned”? It just doesn’t make sense, MD – the WAY they responded… does it?

      2. Not immediately re-tracing Natalee’s steps on 5/29 – particularly since Gerold Dompig and Straaten wanted to vigorously look to “OTHER PLACES and PEOPLE” for the CAUSE of Natalee being taken from everyone and everything she ever loved?

      MD, do you think that it’s possible they DID look into Natalee’s FINAL MOMENTS ON EARTH – on 5/29 and that WHAT THEY FOUND LED TO, the reason WHY they then began to work vigorously with implanting the story into the media that: “she could have run away”…? (while knowing, her passport was right there, in her room)…

      Do you think, MD that WHAT THEY FOUND ABOUT 5/29 – led to the other story implanted by the ALE into the media that:
      “the FBI is working closely with us” – only for the FBI to have to clarify that ALL they were doing was “observing”..?

      Do you think, MD that WHAT THEY LEARNED ABOUT 5/29 – led to those ten days of freedom for Joran, Paulus, Deepak and Satish so they could get their lies straightened out, destroy evidence, and set up their “witnesses”?

      Do you think, MD that WHAT THEY LEARNED ABOUT 5/29 – is what led to that sudden “tear” in the surveillance tape announced (interestingly) by Paulus only hours later on 5/31, after Beth had just been to Paulus’ house, a “tear” in tape announced after Beth had gone back to the Holiday Inn with Joran and his father, and Deepak to review the exact location that they claimed Natalee was “dropped off at”..?

      Do you think, MD that WHAT WAS LEARNED ABOUT 5/29 – is what then led the ALE to plant the notion into the media that Natalee was “friends” with Joran and that she “wanted to go with Joran and Deepak and Satish” in their car – the notion that she “wanted” to go with THREE STRANGERS?

      In fact, MD … do you think that it is possible that WHAT WAS LEARNED ABOUT 5/29 is indeed what then led to all those vile unconscienable assaults on Beth, because Beth acted courageously in refusing to allow these criminals to crush her baby’s truth?

      MD, do you think it’s possible that WHAT WAS LEARNED ABOUT 5/29 is what perhaps led the ALE and Karin Janssen to take absolutely NOT STATEMENTS FROM PAULUS, AT ALL on 5/30?
      No statements at all from Joran, Deepak and Satish on 5/30?
      Or – were statements indeed taken and somehow …”vanished”, along with NATALEE?

      3. Immediately seizing ALL TAPES to corroborate or to prove false the statements of explanation ( which we know were ALL LIES), concerning Paulus, Joran, Deepak and Satish’s version of:

      a) their knowledge of Natalee Holloway and where she was taken and by whom, on 5/29 – 5/30.

      b) their claims as to where they all were and what they were all claiming to be doing on 5/29 and 5/30 especially when you consider HOW MANY TAPES were available to prove or disprove all their claims of where they were and what they did on those two days.

      c) taking immediate statements from all the people who were readily available at ALL the locations where Joran, Paulus, Deepak and Satish claimed to have been as well as statements from those individuals at locations where Joran, Deepak and Satish claimed to have taken Natalee in their FIRST LIE: ‘We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn hotel and she was approached by a dark skin man dressed in a uniform, who approached her in the LOBBY.’

      4. An immediate un-impeded search of their homes (J2K), all their possessions/property and THE CAR, that was seen as THE VEHICLE in which Joran, Deepak and Satish took Natalee away (afterwhich she was never seen again.)

      Why would Janssen and the ALE NOT WISH to immediately RULE OUT ALL CAUSE FOR SUSPICION particularly concerning: JORAN, DEEPAK and SATISH – AND PAULUS?

      MD…since police knew on 5/31 that Deepak’s car was at the Van der Sloots around 2 AM in the morning, can you help me understand WHY at 3 AM, when Beth arrives on the property of the Van der Sloots, with the FBI and her family, and DEEPAK’S CAR IS NOW SITTING RIGHT THERE (AFTER RETURNING FROM …dropping off Satish?…) that the ALE didn’t immediately SEIZE it?
      I just can’t figure that out. Can you?

      The Dutch investigators and the Aruban ALE (at all levels) never anticipated the power of a mother’s love and a father’s persistance that their precious baby be honored, remembered and found!

      The Dutch investigators and the Aruban ALE (at all levels) never anticipated the power of a family to UNITE TOGETHER in the name of Natalee’s human rights, and in the name of her right to JUSTICE!

      Nothing less than NATALEE’S TRUTH will give honor to her memory.

      Nothing less than NATALEE’S JUSTICE will give meaning and some measure of healing and peace to all the members of this precious young girl’s family and friends who will continue to stand by Natalee’s side, until justice is served and this family’s right to have their baby returned to her family, and to her country is honored.

      And all of us together here and in so many other places, will unite behind Natalee Holloway’s right to HOPE, Natalee Holloway’s family’s right to BELIEVE that the United States of America stands behind THIS CHILD, that the United States of America will HONOR her right to justice by demanding an HONEST investigation into the horrific violations of her human rights, and the belief that it is Natalee’s inherant right to come home to her family where she can be buried with dignity, her good life honored and remembered, and her family granted some measure of humanity in granting them some semblance of peace and closure.

      Honor Natalee’s truth, by honoring her right to JUSTICE!

      Honor Natalee’s right to justice, by honoring HER TRUTH!

      Justice for Natalee Holloway!
      Justice for Natalee Holloway!
      Justice for Natalee Holloway!

    214. Richard on January 13th, 2007 3:24 pm

      Art Wood is entitled to his opinions. Whether they are accurate is another matter, just as with all of our ideas, most definitely including mine ….

      Did anyone notice that Joel Gove, 47, on Saba disappeared while out hiking on the day before he was supposed to check out from where he was staying? Quite a coincidence, for coincidence it must be ….

    215. Richard on January 13th, 2007 4:04 pm

      I’m certainly not saying that MD, who presents a plausible argument, is wrong. But it seems to me that Aruba wouldn’t be going to the lengths it has gone to in perpetuating a cover-up (does anyone think there is not a cover up?) for a two-bit lawyer who didn’t even get the judgeship he wanted.

      I think something bigger is involved than some scum of the ditch and a few kids. Or, shall I say, that their involvement is not the end of the affair….

      But MD could well be right.

      Interesting article, this: conspiracy to kidnap American citizens abroad. Wonder if it happens outside of Mexico?

      Houston & Texas News

      Jan. 13, 2007
      Mexican woman charged in kidnapping of U.S. citizens
      Associated Press

      LAREDO – A Mexican woman has been charged in the kidnapping of two U.S. citizens held captive for one day last year before a $20,000 ransom was paid.

      Christina Rodriguez, 31, was arrested Thursday on charges of conspiracy to kidnap U.S. citizens in a foreign country, the FBI said in a statement.

      According to court documents, the victims were taken by five black-clad gunmen July 16 in Nuevo Laredo, the violence-plagued border city where those who were kidnapped had gone to attend a wedding.

      Rodriguez worked at a Laredo restaurant with the victims and tipped off the kidnappers in Mexico about their whereabouts, according to a criminal complaint. The documents state that the kidnappers later admitted to their victims that they weren’t the intended targets.

      Mexican authorities arrested four men who admitted to the kidnapping about two weeks after it took place, according to court papers.

      In November, a prominent Laredo businessman and four others, including his son, were kidnapped in Nuevo Laredo. All returned safely.

    216. Molly on January 13th, 2007 4:32 pm

      #210 CARPE!! I couldn’t have said it better myself. I was going to ignore yoyo, the muffin’s post. It was just a smartalec post. And after all the work that you have done, a pretty stupid post. Thanks, Carpe.

      molly (in Houston)

    217. Molly on January 13th, 2007 5:21 pm

      RICHARD: I will make a feeble attempt to comment on your generous answer to me.

      I feel sure that I read on here about a compound on Aruba that no one could enter unless they were cleared at the gate. I am not good at remembering names, if it had one. Since it seems like such a privileged and closed compound, I was wondering if Natalee could have been taken there for the pleasure of the inhabitants who I suspect are mafia kingpins.

      I remember that you are involved with Amy Bradley. I wish that someone could see her again and wisk her away. No matter what physical or psychological shape she is in, her parents would love to have her back. Just heartbreaking.

      As much as Jurine and Pauless looked at porn, it would not be surprising to me that they got new ideas from these websites. I don’t look at that stuff, so no telling what they might have seen to inspire them. These guys seem to only think about one thing. Since their brains seem to be located down under, no offense to Australia, their brain is quite small and can only think of one thing. Such low lifes.

      I have seen tourists acting like they don’t have a care in the world and acting like they don’t have to respect or worry about anyone. Totally carefree. That, indeed, makes them a target for several reasons.

      Jurine could have just pulled a number ‘out of a hat’ by saying that they had done this 20 times before. Just a general number that sounded good. However, I agree with you, that they surely had done this type of thing a number of times, whatever that number was.

      I suspect that the Kalpoops were anxious to be accepted in the wealthy Dutch world. They agreed to all sorts of things that night in order to gain that acceptance. It sure backfired as they quickly became personas nongratis, jailbirds (Dipak), and societal rejects.

      Sex trade is a worldwide problem. Recently, I heard a news report about South America. Another time, it was Asia. That tells me that if Natalee was sold, she could have been sold to anybody, anywhere. Makes me sick in the pit of my stomach. What a horrible dilemma for her parents to think about!

      As indicated by Jurine, there is someone bigger controlling the pimp group. So I agree that there is someone who they wanted to get ‘in good with’ by bringing Natalee to their group.

      I don’t know much about the videos either. It is very strange that someone would want to video all these events at the rocks, the basin, etc. Too bad they didn’t do a better job of filming. My feeling is that Natalee was attacked on the mattress in the Slut home. Whether or not she died on that mattress remains to be proven. The mattress is probably deep in the landfill.

      Thanks for all your time, Richard. I normally don’t make long posts. My family gets on my case really hard for spending too much time on here. I just say what I think and quit. You gave me a lot to comment on. I appreciate the spirit of your posts as well as your work for the Bradley family. I wish there was more that we could do for both families of the missing girls who we have grown to love.

      molly (in Houston)

    218. Maggie on January 13th, 2007 5:28 pm

      Here’s another big fat lie between them.. Satish says they were together, on Sat night and again on Sunday night.. Joran says they never really hung out two nights in a row so the Sun. night he and Deepak were together and the Monday night they were together was something new. Joran says the most recent time he spent time with Deepak other than Sun. when Natalee disappeared was probably a week ago, doesn’t mention the night before at CnC’s on Sat. night with all 3 that Satish talks about.. He even says hanging out with with Deepak 2 nights in a row was something new on Sun. and Mon night, after Satish says they were together Sat. also which would’ve been 3 nights in a row for Joran and Deepak.. Ok now who’s lying and why?

      Satish June 10th..

      Where had the three of you gone on the night from Saturday night to Sunday night on May 28th 2005?

      We had gone to Carlos & Charlies.

      Was it just the three of you who had gone to Carlos & Charlies on Saturday May 28th 2005?

      Yes, it was just the three of us that went to Carlos & Charlies.

      Did you see Natalee who now is missing in Carlos & Charlies on that Saturday night May 28th 2005 going into Sunday morning May 29th 2005?

      No, on that day I did not see Natalee. Natalee was an unknown person to me that night. I had not seen Natalee at all in Carlos & Charlies in the night from Saturday to Sunday.

      Had you been drinking a lot on the night from Saturday to Sunday?

      No, we had not had a lot to drink. I do not exactly remember how much we drank. It has been approximately two weeks ago.

      How late did you leave the premises of Carlos & Charlies that day?

      That day we had left Carlos & Charlies at approximately 02.30 hours.

      When you left Carlos & Charlies, were there just the three of you?

      Yes, we left Carlos & Charlies with just the three of us.

      After you left Carlos & Charlies, were did the three of you go?

      After we left Carlos & Charlies, we first dropped off Joran at his place and then we went home. According to me my brother Deepak was driving the car. We arrived at home at approximately 03.00 hours.

      Greta’s interview..

      VAN SUSTEREN: Had you ever hung out with him two nights in a row before?

      VAN DER SLOOT: Two nights in a row? Never, really, because he works a lot and – yes.

      VAN SUSTEREN: When you met up with him on the night of the 29th, the night going into Natalee’s disappearance, when was the most recent time before that that you’d spent time with him?

      VAN DER SLOOT: The most recent time before that?

      VAN SUSTEREN: Yes.

      VAN DER SLOOT: I don’t remember exactly when it was.

      VAN SUSTEREN: More than a week or two weeks? Any idea?

      VAN DER SLOOT: No, it was probably a week.

      VAN SUSTEREN: So this was – so when he called you the second night, on the night of the 30th, to meet you at the Radisson, that was something different, the two nights in a row where you guys were together.

      VAN DER SLOOT: Sorry?

      VAN SUSTEREN: That was something different that you guys were together two nights in a row, that he would call you the second night.

      VAN DER SLOOT: Yes. I guess so.

    219. Maggie on January 13th, 2007 5:36 pm

      Richard I didn’t take the 20 times to be an exact number. Just an estimate of how many times they have done this. Deepak also states, they did this and says it was usually Joran who got the girls, sometimes Freddy, sounds like a set up to me. They all go in and let Joran make the move, or Freddy. Deepak also says they have all been in hotels having sex with tourist girls at the same time also. However Joran says he never saw Deepak or Satish with a girl. Anyone who has been to an event at closing time, knows how confusing and how chaotic it can be couple that with people drinking and taking her to another side of the bar and serving her the 150 rum after it closes.

    220. mayan_moons on January 13th, 2007 5:47 pm

      Please post the text that Art sent! TIA

    221. Dan in Tx on January 13th, 2007 6:12 pm

      How about, “Aruba: C’mon, pleeeeeease come back…!” as a slogan?

    222. Patti on January 13th, 2007 6:17 pm

      Richard:

      As you know, I lived in Mexico. The type of kidnapping that you mention in your post above happens frequently. When my family moved down there, as ex-patriots, we were specifically warned of these types of crimes. In fact, we were given the names and numbers for individuals to contact in the case of such an emergency. Although it is an ugly and terrifying crime, many times it is only done for the ransom… and is usually always committed against Americans, especially those working and living abroad.

      Crioyo:

      Thank you so much. You are a hero and there has never been a doubt, in my mind, that you support justice.

      Thanks, again.

      Justice for Natalee

    223. mayan_moons on January 13th, 2007 6:54 pm

      HaHaHa Dan…..wouldn’t suprise me abit.

    224. Carpe Noctem on January 13th, 2007 7:06 pm

      Okay, for the record…
      on the
      QUEEN BEATRIX
      LETTERS

      I think as long as you start off the
      letter with the greetings of YOUR and
      MAJESTY somewhere in the salutation,
      then I think you’re
      safe.

      I have done some web searching and have
      seen

      -YOUR GRACIOUS MAJESTY
      -YOUR ROYAL MAJESTY
      -YOUR MAJESTY

      —-

      and here is an intant replay from poster Robert from the Netherlands

      - Post Date Dec 2oth 2006

      #

      Richard (239, 259),

      I searched the internet somewhat more and found:

      One site says that the salutation of the Dutch Queen is just “Majesty”; so not even a “Your” before the word Majesty. Further along in the letter you use “Your Majesty”.

      Wikipedia says: “Your Majesty”

      Carpe Footnotes:

      Greetings
      Not Recommended:

      Yo, Toots!

      It’s All Good, Miss Magic Hiney.

      ‘Suuuuuup… Me Lady Royal High-Tits?!?!

      -J4N ;)

    225. Carpe Noctem on January 13th, 2007 7:15 pm

      Oh, Arubaaaaaa…

      I almost forgot-

      Happy belated New Year 2007 to
      you from this very PROUD
      HOLLOWAY/TWITTY Supporter.

      http://tinyurl.com/yaarw4

      Hey…

      Here is to gettin’ your a$$ kicked
      all over the Caribbean
      for another full year, huh?

      Luv Yaaaaaaaa!!!

      —-
      JUSTICE 4 NATALEE : JUSTICE 4 NATALEE : JUSTICE 4 NATALEE!
      —-

    226. mayan_moons on January 13th, 2007 7:45 pm

      Hey Carpe!

      Love the Card! I’ll sign the bottom of it lol and so will The Ritz! No one wants to go to that place anymore.

    227. Patti on January 13th, 2007 7:47 pm

      It’s the oldest trick in the book. Buy a girl a few drinks, slip her a mickey….

      Problem is the perps have lied, their parents have lied even the government of Aruba has lied… why?

      There has to be a reason that the Government of Aruba is supporting this psychotic twirp and his even weirder father.

      Doesn’t it kinda make you wonder what Paulus had on the government, or those involved in government, that would make them go along with the cover-up of a murder that in many ways is no different than most that we see happening all the time?

      Who are the women at the rocks? I believe that there was more than one… mutilated… and not by sharks!

      Was Natalee there…

      The answers given by Joran, in many of his interviews, sound like threats… as well as the conversations between the perps.

      When you have dirty police that are either committing or allowing others to commit crimes, they can be easily manipulated by someone that knows of their dirty little secrets. What are Aruba’s most private dirty secrets? The drug trade and the sex-slave operations.

      Perhaps the ones at the rocks were a sign to the police… thus the threat, “they are going to find all that shit”… they being the press, the Americans, the public.

      I think Paulus did what he could to save his own. He promised that he would tell it all, when the time was right!

      I don’t believe that he will tell anything. In fact, he never intended on telling anything… but if he did, in his own words, alot of people would get hurt.

      He got what he wanted from the police, the prosecutor and all the others…. and we may never know all the things that Paulus knows… But, believe me! He could have told alot… a whole lot… a whole BUNCH of stuff!

      How unfortunate that we have to be here almost two years later hashing over all the statements, looking at the newpaper articles and trying our damnedest to find the truth, when all it would have taken was for just one of them to stand up and say no.

      Do we know what happened to Natalee? Not yet, but we will.

      Boycott Aruba

      Boycott Aruba

    228. Patti on January 13th, 2007 8:18 pm

      Hey, Aruba:

      What sha doin’ down there?

      Makin’ some movies for your mother?

      Where are all those girls that you transport to your island
      from Venezuela and Columbia? I wonder….

      Can’t you hear their mother’s crying?

    229. JusticeforNatalee on January 13th, 2007 9:03 pm

      THE POWER OF THE PEN

      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

    230. Pearl on January 13th, 2007 10:47 pm

      It takes a team effort to honor a child’s truth.

      It takes the public, the media and honorable men and women in law enforcement to stand up together for a child’s right to have their truth honored, for a child’s right to have their right to justice protected and upheld.

      CALLING ALL MEN AND WOMEN IN THE MEDIA, IN THE PUBLIC, AND IN LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO VALUE CHILDREN AND THEIR RIGHT TO BE PROTECTED, WHO VALUE CHILDREN AND THEIR RIGHT TO JUSTICE:

      Stand together for Natalee Holloway’s right to have her story told, to have her truth honored, to have her right to justice protected.

      How fortunate for the families of the two young boys recently reunited with their family, after suffering the terror of being kidnapped by a predator who took them from their loved ones.

      For these young boys, recovered through the combined caring of the media, concerned public citizens, and honorable men and women in law enforcement who give MEANING to INTEGRITY in the badges they wear, the journey of hope has led to joyous celebrations.

      But for the family of Natalee Holloway, there is no hope ever – of a joyous reunion here on earth, in the days, weeks, months or years that lie ahead.

      There is no hope of ever seeing their beloved Natalee alive again. So much has been taken from this beautiful family. So much has been robbed from Natalee and all those she loved.

      Imagine being Beth or Dave,alone from the support of your country, facing the horror of having your baby kidnapped, and having all your hopes reduced to one single painful longing …that your child’s remains are returned to you, so you can at the very least, bury your baby with dignity and honor, by granting her a dignified burial.

      Does Natalee Holloway not deserve to be remembered and brought home to her country?
      Does Natalee Holloway not deserve the best that our American team efforts can combine to create for one of our children robbed from her loved ones on foreign soil?

      Does the unique suffering of a family whose child is kidnapped, raped and murdered abroad in a foreign country, by a ring of local men who drug young tourist girls for the purpose of raping them, not deserve the full scrutiny of the American public, critical pointed questions from our media, and the outcry from law enforcement officials whose honor and integrity make them worthy of speaking out on behalf of Natalee and demandng an HONEST investigation into this precious child’s suffering and torment?

      It takes a team to honor a child’s truth.

      On May 31, after traveling into the late hours of the night to find her baby, and having no sleep, Beth Twitty pressed on in the pursuit of finding her precious daughter, only to hear ALE officials tell her that she was “not needed” for her statement concerning what she had learned during the early morning hours upon her arrival to Aruba.

      Aruban ALE officials told Beth that she was “not needed” following the assault of lies thrown at Beth by Joran, Paulus, and Deepak regarding what they had done to Natalee and what they knew of her whereabouts.

      Yes, it truly does take a TEAM to honor a child’s truth.

      And it takes Law Enforcement officials with honesty and integrity to pursue a CHILD’S TRUTH, and HONOR a child’s TRUTH.

      In the final moments of her life, despite her fighting back to be set free, Natalee never had a fighting chance.

      What young girl could fight her way free when a group of hideous men are ganging up on her, drugging her, raping her and murdering her?

      She never had a chance.

      And in death, it seems she never had a chance either because the Aruban law enforcement officials in charge of investigating the criminal conduct inflicted upon Natalee had neither the honesty nor the integrity to measure up to honoring this child’s painful truth and the suffering they know that was inflicted upon her. The dishonesty by law enforcement officials conducting the non-investigation was as hideous as the murderers themselves, and once again this precious child was victimized over and over again, while her family stood alone with a bravery and courage that is astounding and remarkable while refusing to give up hope for Natalee.

      Americans cannot rely on Aruba or the Netherlands to honor one of our children taken from her family on foreign soil.
      WE ARE THE BEARERS OF HOPE FOR NATALEE’S FAMILY.

      CALLING THE AMERICAN TEAM!

      Calling Americans to unite together, to help bring home this young girl named Natalee, whose bags were packed and ready to come home.

      Calling American men and women to take a stand for Natalee Holloway, and help give her a fighting chance to come home to her family.

      The Holloway Twitty family need our support and if any dishonorable officials from Aruba or the Netherlands think they can sweep one of our American children into one of their caves, then let our public outcry for Natalee make them think again!

      Natalee needs to be returned to her family.
      She needs to come home to the United States.

      CALLING THE MEDIA, THE PUBLIC, AND ALL AMERICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS TO TAKE A STAND TOGETHER FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY, FOR HER RIGHT TO JUSTICE, HER RIGHT TO HAVE HER TRUTH TOLD, HER RIGHT TO HAVE HER FREEDOM HONORED, HER RIGHT TO COME HOME!

      GIVE HOPE TO NATALEE’S FAMILY, BY FIGHTING FOR HER RIGHT TO JUSTICE AND HER RIGHT TO HAVE HER TRUTH HONORED!

      GIVE HOPE TO NATALEE’S FAMILY, BY STANDING TOGETHER TO DEMAND THIS CHILD BE RETURNED TO HER FAMILY, TO DEMAND THAT THIS CHILD COME HOME!

      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY!
      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY!
      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY!

    231. Miss-Underestimated on January 13th, 2007 11:19 pm

      MD

      Don’t ever stop. Keep hammering away.

      Pearl

      Your posts are always right on the money

      How is 1906? I hope good. I miss his posts.

      Oh Anita, did Paulie get you a new camera for Christmas and did JORAN GET A NEW BELT AND SPORTER SHOES?

      land of liars…ARUBA

    232. Miss-Underestimated on January 13th, 2007 11:22 pm

      9 out 10 liars reside in Aruba

      Jaansen when you gonna ask Joran for the truth, he said on tv he will tell some day. When is that day gonna be?

    233. Miss-Underestimated on January 13th, 2007 11:25 pm

      sb 9 out of every 10 liars reside in Aruba

      Lying is the next Olympic Game that Aruba will win.

    234. Richard on January 13th, 2007 11:25 pm

      Thanks for the research, Carpe, and thanks for the comments, Molly, Patti, et. al. It’s perfectly acceptable, and totally sane and rational, to think that Natalee’s life might have ended the same morning after she was taken from Carlos ‘n’ Charlies.

      Or possibly later. There was a very grim story in the news today about a young couple in Tennessee who went out and were carjacked. The guy was shot; the girl was taken by four scum to a house, held there for several days, abused (you know what I mean) repeatedly, and finally shot.

      I think it’s very possible that this was in the Pimps’ program, assuming they were as debased as this.

      I also think it’s highly possible that, fueled on fantasies and on drugs, they may have kept Natalee prisoner somewhere for a while, then when they came off their high, realized that their fantasy of selling her would be no more than that.

      And then?

      Remember Dompig’s story that Natalee had OD’d on drugs? If the Pimps did have her, possibly the easiest (for them) way of eliminating their “problem” would be to administer a forced overdose of heroin. Not only that … some people, if they’d ever found the body, might have thought that, yes indeed, here was another American tourist who went too far.

      (I’ll make it plain … I do not for one second believe that Natalee would have used any such drugs willingly. If she died of an overdose, it was given to her to kill her.)

      But think back …

      Remember Elizabeth Smart? Vanished for nine months, and much of the time near her home? Did anyone doubt that she was dead?

      Remember the Austrian girl, held for EIGHT YEARS in a basement apartment not far from her house? Did anyone doubt that she was dead?

      Remember the boy who vanished last week in Missouri, and the other one who vanished four years or so before? Did anyone doubt ….

      And we won’t talk about Amy Bradley.

      None of this is proof, or even evidence, of what happened to Natalee. But no crime scene, no body, and it seems that Aruba is determined to keep this under wraps ….

      All I will say is, I’m not giving up the belief that she might well have been taken off the island. I’m not insisting on it as what DID happen, but I do think it is certainly a possible explanation.

      Here’s a possibly relevant story….

      Search: All News Yahoo! News Only News Photos Video/Audio Advanced

      ——————————————————————————–

      Questions linger after 2 Mo. boys found By BETSY TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer
      34 minutes ago

      KIRKWOOD, Mo. – Investigators who made the incredible discovery of two kidnapped boys in a tiny apartment turned Saturday from euphoria to some troubling questions.

      ADVERTISEMENT

      What could have motivated the suspect? How did he treat the boys? And how was he able to keep them hidden in plain sight just an hour’s drive from their hometowns – one for four days, the other for four years?

      “It’s hard to believe that somebody could be that brazen,” said Craig Akers, whose stepson Shawn Hornbeck was abducted in 2002 at age 11. “This has been going on four years, and he’s been right under our nose the whole time.”

      In back-to-back news conferences Saturday, parents of the now-15-year-old Hornbeck and 13-year-old Ben Ownby told of an outpouring of hugs, kisses and “I love yous” following the discovery in this St. Louis suburb Friday that they described as nothing short of a miracle.

      The sons smiled often by their parents’ sides but were told not to answer questions. Police said they could not discuss details of their investigation of 41-year-old Michael Devlin, who was jailed on $1 million bond on a kidnapping charge and could face more charges before an arraignment later this week.

      Neighbors in the two-story, brick apartment complex said Devlin, a burly, 300-pound man with wire-rimmed glasses and a beard, hardly appeared to be keeping secrets. He had lifelong ties to this middle-class suburb of 26,000, family in the area and apparently no criminal record beyond a pair of traffic fines. He was often seen coming and going from his jobs at a pizza parlor and a funeral home, and nothing seemed odd about a teenager seen hanging around his place.

      Others said Devlin said little and stayed to himself – unless someone took the parking spot he preferred. Last fall, when Rob Bushelle pulled into the unassigned spot, Devlin pulled next to him and became irate, threatening to call police.

      The landlord at the apartment, Bill Romer, said he was in the apartment once to fix a plumbing problem and saw the teen, apparently Hornbeck, sleeping.

      “As far as I knew, that was his son living with him,” Romer said. “The kid’s bedroom didn’t even have curtains on the windows.”

      Rick Butler, 43, who lives across the street, said he saw no evidence that the boy was scared or trying to get away. He even saw Devlin and the teen pitch a tent outside in the complex, which sits near railroad tracks and Interstate 44 in a working-class section of well-to-do Kirkwood.

      “I didn’t see or hear anything odd or unusual from the apartment,” Butler said. “I just figured them for father and son.”

      Last fall, Butler said he found a cell phone outside, called a number on it and the teen came outside to retrieve it.

      “Thanks a lot for the phone,” he recalled the boy saying.

      Alma Rodriguez often saw the teenager riding his bike in the parking lot behind the complex. Her husband, Mario, sometimes saw him throwing a football with another boy. Hornbeck did not attend school during his time in captivity, his stepfather said.

      Harry Reichard, 33, who lives in the apartment directly above Devlin’s basement apartment, said he would hear arguing and banging noises at all hours coming from the apartment.

      At the Bopp Chapel funeral parlor, where Devlin worked a twice-a-week shift answering phones, he was described as a punctual but quiet worker who never discussed his private life.

      “I can’t tell you the feeling here,” said funeral director Chris Roth. “Complete excitement for the boys being found to shock that it was him.”

      The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported that Devlin’s relatives also were shocked by the case and said they had no idea the boy was with him.

      At Imo’s Pizzeria, where Devlin was a manager, an employee who did not want to be identified told the newspaper that a boy called the restaurant Friday afternoon looking for Devlin, who was being questioned by the FBI at the time. The worker noticed on the caller ID that the call came from Devlin’s home. The boy told him, “I’m Shawn Wilcox. My father is a friend of Mike Devlin.”

      *************

      The case recalls the improbable survival of Elizabeth Smart, the Salt Lake City teen taken for nine months by a religious zealot. After her return, many questioned why she didn’t flee her captors, despite many apparent chances at freedom.

      Stephen Golding, a forensic psychologist who examined the suspect in the Smart case, said captors often establish control over their victims through fear.

      “People are led to believe, through someone taking advantage of their vulnerabilities, that leaving is not an option, that things will get worse for them or will get worse for others,” Golding said.

      ****************

      Both boys were abducted from rural areas of eastern Missouri, both about an hour from metro St. Louis. Hornbeck disappeared Oct. 6, 2002, while riding his bike in Richwoods in Washington County. Ownby was taken soon after getting off a school bus Monday afternoon in the Franklin County town of Beaufort, a beat-up white pickup seen by a schoolmate the only real clue.

      On Thursday night, police in Kirkwood, an upper middle class suburban town, noticed a truck matching the description while serving an unrelated warrant at a nearby apartment.

      When FBI agents walked into a suburban St. Louis apartment a day later, 13-year-old Ownby asked them, “Are you going to take me home?”, and another teenager in the modest dwelling identified himself as Hornbeck – reported missing 4 1/2 years ago.

      “Obviously it was quite euphoric,” FBI Special Agent Roland Corvington said Saturday.

      Hornbeck’s parents dealt with their grief over the years by devoting themselves to bringing missing people home. Having their son back, they said at a news conference, was evidence for parents of other missing children to NEVER GIVE UP HOPE. (Emphasis supplied -R)

      “I still feel like I’m in a dream, only this time it’s a good dream, not the nightmare I’ve had four-and-a-half years,” said his mother, Pam Akers.

      Hornbeck’s stepfather, Craig Akers, said he and his wife were in disbelief when they were reunited with the boy.

      “There was that split second of shock,” he said. “Once I saw the face, I said, ‘Oh my God, that’s my son.’”

      According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, about 58,000 children are the victims of non-family abductions. The vast majority of those children are returned safely.

      An average of 115 cases, however, involve children taken by non-family members for long periods, put up for ransom or killed by their abductors. Of that number, about 60 come home safely, said center spokeswoman Joann Donnellan.

      But what makes the boys’ case rare, Donnellan said, is the fact that a single abductor took multiple children. The case was made rarer still by the length of Hornbeck’s captivity, Donnellan said.

      At the news conference in an elementary school adorned with balloons and welcome-home signs, the shaggy-haired Hornbeck smiled sheepishly, his mother’s arm draped around him.

      At the other news conference, Ben Ownby grinned broadly as his mother recalled that soon after his return home, Ownby immediately went to the computer to play video games.

      “We’re just ecstatic,” Doris Ownby said. “Don’t want to let him go out of our sight.”

    235. Richard on January 13th, 2007 11:28 pm

      Patti (#228) … you mention all the girls brought from Venezuela and Colombia to Aruba for the sex trade.

      Don’t forget, boats go both ways ….

    236. Richard on January 13th, 2007 11:32 pm

      Finally, all our theorizing can take us down different paths. Not all of our ideas can be right; perhaps none of them will turn out to be wholly accurate.

      But one thing that I think we all ARE united on:

      Answers for Natalee’s parents.
      Return home for Natalee (alive if at all possible).
      JUSTICE FOR NATALEE.
      PUNISHMENT FOR ANYONE WHO HARMED HER, OR ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN AND FAILED TO ACT.

      (The Holloway Twittys once said that they didn’t care what Aruba did; they just wanted to bring Natalee home. They’re more noble than I am. Justice includes PUNISHMENT, to me.)

    237. yoyo muffintop on January 14th, 2007 12:14 am

      Pearl – Why do you believe there is no hope of seeing Natalee alive again? Did you not read about Shawn Hornbeck? It’s almost as if you want Natalee to not be alive. Weird to say the least.

    238. Patti on January 14th, 2007 12:37 am

      Richard:

      I don’t see how they can live with the sadness. It is heart breaking to write about and even more heart breaking to hear.

      You’re right, the boats do go both ways; and I shall never forget the pain that comes into or out of Aruba.

      Let there be justice for all, all of them.

      Let us rest assured… that while the missing were
      being bought and sold, we were fighting.

      Justice for Natalee
      and all the others that go
      missing in and out of Aruba

      Good Night…

    239. nychic on January 14th, 2007 3:18 am

      klaas -

      I Realize That You Requested That Chroniger’s Crap
      Not Be Posted Here – Just Wanted You To Know That
      He Has Responsed To The SM Comments (with more to come)

      (p.s. i will not be offended if you choose to omit this post
      as it was more just an fyi)

    240. vicki on January 14th, 2007 8:56 am

      239-nychic, that guy is a real PIG. He has his 15 minutes and now thinks he is a big MACHO MAN.. he is a low life and he needs a clue and a life. He just needs to crawl back under the rock he slithered out of. JUSTICE FOR NATALEE. Ill bet if his daughter went missing he wouldnt know what to do but cry.

    241. Richard on January 14th, 2007 9:56 am

      This morning I was thinking about how the Missouri boy, missing for five years, was held within 30 or 40 miles of his home. The distances for Elizabeth Smart and that Austrian girl were about the same.

      Although I’ve never been much of a believer in the Shango stuff, a chill went down my back when one line came to mind:

      “The Americans are looking in all the wrong places.”

      Still and all, the fact that a one-in-a-million miracle occurred in Missouri, AND in Utah, AND in Vienna, is not necessarily evidence in Natalee’s case. What we hope, or fear, or opine, is irrelevant; only the truth matters.

    242. Pearl on January 14th, 2007 10:22 am

      Anita would like for us to “look to other people” and “other places” in answering the question: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?

      Here’s a suggestion: How about we all go back to May 29th at the casino?

      You know, Natalee’s last few hours on this earth, right before the time when she entered the casino.

      In fact, let’s go back to around 4 PM that day at the casino.

      Better yet, let’s make it 3 PM.
      Why not start right there?

      Let’s see that casino video tape un-edited, shall we?
      Let’s roll the tape from 3 PM in the afternoon, all the way into the late evening.

      Let’s see that tape from start to finish, all the entries, all the exits, all the facts about that day, all the faces, and ALL THE LIES TOLD ABOUT THAT DAY.

      Let’s see May 29th, 2005, at the casino.
      Let’s see WHO entered, WHO left and at WHAT TIME.

      Would that be a good alternative place for us to re-focus our attention, Anita?

      Would that be a sufficient place for a good start in “looking to other people and other places”, Jan Van der Straaten?

      May 29th, 2005, all day and all night at the Holiday Inn CASINO… let’s look there, shall we?

      ….Or did that tape also suffer from a “TEAR”?

    243. dennisintn on January 14th, 2007 1:16 pm

      #232, paulus also added that in an interview. he says he can’t tell more because other people would be hurt. other than his own family, seems like this situation is all ready hurting everyone else he knows, so just who did he have in mind?
      dennisintn

    244. minnesota dad on January 14th, 2007 2:19 pm

      #243 –

      Seems pretty obvious. If Paulus was to come clean it will hurt 1) ALE people that covered up for him, 2) Aruban/Curacao judges that, under overwhelming Conflict of Interest, covered up for Paulus and distanced him from the case.

      In addition there are the folks that got out of dodge before they could be interrogated – Jeffrey Von Croimvert, Koehn Gottenboes, and Guido Wever.

      It is very apparent by Guido hiring the best defense attorney in Holland that Guido has involvement in this crime. You don’t lawyer up like that unless you have something to hide.

      Some have speculated that Guido was the one who perpetrated the most violence on Natalee. Quite possible…with Paulus finishing the deed when it became quite clear that this girl was better off ‘disappeared’ than taken to a hospital. Still does not release J2K as accomplices and for their rape charges and 8 years in prison. I do not think Paulus was involved in the sexual assault…I do believe he was involved in her death – at his home – and the disposal of her body.

      Again, the way Guido ditched the island and lawyered up, pretty clear his hands are muddy on this deal too. It is also fascinating….Guido was charged with ‘heavy battery’.

      CAN SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS DUTCH/ARUBAN LAW EXPLAIN HOW SOMEONE CAN BE CHARGED WITH ‘HEAVY BATTERY’ WHEN NO BODY WAS FOUND…WHEN NONE OF THE RELEASED TESTIMONY IDENTIFIES GUIDO’S INVOLVEMENT AND HEAVY BATTERY???? THIS IS ONE THAT ALMOST SMELLS AS BAD AS PAULUS BEING RELEASED AS A SUSPECT IN NATALEE’S DISAPPEARANCE. YOYO MUFFINTOP….PERHAPS YOU COULD ‘SPLAIN THIS ONE FOR US.

      At this point in time, since Dutch Investigators are balking at dealing with the perp, Paulus, it is time to take in J2K for Assault, kidnapping, and rape and put them away for eight years each. The truth will follow quickly as to who was responsible for her death and disposal. md

    245. Patti on January 14th, 2007 3:06 pm

      I gave up a long time ago trying to decifer the truth from the lies, but I can tell you that when I hear a threat, I recognize it. The threats were used as a shield in an attempt to protect themselves from prosecution.

      A report came out that the investigators had a confession. The police were on their way to retrieve Natalee, the case would be solved and it was just a matter of time… but what did the police really find?

      We know what was found at the rocks… slavery, torture and mutilation… the deepest and most private secrets of Aruba… but… not Natalee.

      The police paint the rocks… they paint away the filth, the corruption and “ALL THAT SHIT”…. following suit in shielding themselves from the truth and protecting themselves, and the “many” others from prosecution.

      The investigators changed their story to state that they think they know where Natalee is and they are working on her safe return.

      Someone said that this boycott is a double edged sword. But I will go even further to say that the truth is a double-edged sword and it will ravishly cut through all thier defenses, their lies and threats that they try to use to shield themselves from prosecution.

      “All that shit” – they found it, alright…

      Hey, Oduber:

      You got any more disappearing acts? Please, show us some more of “that shit” because, soon, you shall be eating it.

      The truth is:

      Natalee is missing and until she is returned to her family, her home, we shall never give up. We will fight against Aruba and its’ deceit and corruption til the end of our days, if that’s what it takes.

      Boycott Aruba and all its’ dirty, little secrets!

    246. Patti on January 14th, 2007 3:19 pm

      MD:

      I hope you get my drift. Perhaps, while his son was having a good time, Paulus was up to his own tricks and form of entertainment. Someone else knows what happened at the rocks, and they used it to buy their freedom… I wonder… who else was there?

      Blackmail!

      How telling that Joran blames his mother: If only she had stayed home.

    247. Patti on January 14th, 2007 4:03 pm

      The Fruit Doesn’t Fall Far From The Tree….

      but it does fall, and fall it will.

      Justice for Natalee

    248. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 4:04 pm

      After all these months of watching how Aruba operates it wouldn’t suprise me at all if Aruba is involved in human trafficing. I don’t feel however that this is what happened to Natalee….why do i feel this way.

      Coz Paules while at his home poolside and under no duress CHOSE the words “no body…..no case” when referring to Natalee as he coached Jurine & the rest of the pimp(le’s) on what to say And what NOT to say to police. Would Paul say those words if Natalee was alive and/or sold to people connected to Paul? I don’t think so.

    249. Patti on January 14th, 2007 4:13 pm

      Miss Mayan:

      Paulus knows alot about human trafficking… in fact, I am sure that he is a part of it.

      He used his knowledge to threaten those that posed a threat to his son. He put out the bait, and they all took it. It was, then, that the real BIG cover up began.

    250. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 4:19 pm

      Great question Minnesota Dad! I’ve been wondering that too. Wondering even more why the media didn’t ask the same question. How could Karin J. make those charges against Guido without seeing Natalee’s battered & broken body?

    251. Patti on January 14th, 2007 4:56 pm

      Miss Mayan:

      Who is Guido’s Father? Perhaps, that is where the answer to your question lies… and why would HE also lawyer up?

      The mere words, No body, No case… can mean many things.

      It could mean that Paulus had buried the body, as many have speculated… or it could mean that Natalee is long gone, alive somewhere and they will never find her body.

      Why do you think they tried to pin this crime to the security men at the Holliday Inn. Why do you think that they planted a bloody mattress near their home?

      Is it possible that they want us all to THINK that Natalee is dead… hiding the tracks that lead to those that are keeping her? How convenient for those that are the real BIG perpetrators.

      What about the hair on the duct tape? Couldn’t that have been another attempt to make us all believe that Natalee is gone… dead somewhere… gagged and murdered? And what about the pictures at the rocks? I for one have seen and heard amny say that is proof of her demise… but is it really?

      Who knows, but I know one thing; until they produce this body that supposedly exists somewhere, Natalee is missing. And no one should allow rumors or the work of a liar to deter their search.

      Justice for Natalee

    252. Richard on January 14th, 2007 5:03 pm

      Mayan Moons, the comment by Paulus could also imply: As long as they don’t find a body, we’re safe. And they won’t find a body … because the Aruban police can’t look outside of Aruba!

      Shango: “The cowboys (Americans) are looking in all the wrong places.”

      Something else that came to mind today: Carpe Noctem (#142) posted the url to a string of Natalee-related photos that a Florida paper put online recently. They are well worth looking at.

      Go through them, and you’ll find one of the FIRST poster about Natalee that was put up around Aruba.

      That poster has a photo of her, of course.

      But the initial posters didn’t say “Missing.”

      They said “Kidnapped.”

      Don’t take my word for it; go look.

      Curious, wouldn’t you say?

    253. Richard on January 14th, 2007 5:07 pm

      Also, I just want to remind everyone that the Web site of our State Department has information on human trafficking, and that Aruba is cited as a specific place where it occurs.

      Another thing that was mentioned to me today (please correct this if I’m wrong): it was said that Natalee was the only blond girl among the Mountain Brook kids.

      I can’t believe that, but I was assured that it is the case.
      Is that right? Could it be relevant?

      _____________

      SM:   There were several other blonde girls from MB on the trip, I’ve seen photos (klaasend)

    254. Maggie on January 14th, 2007 5:25 pm

      Another big lie,,, Satish says he called Deepak from inside CnC and told Deepak that Joran said they would be leaving and the girl would be coming with us. Joran tell’s Greta that he and Natalee was talking between CnC’s and the car and Natalee asked to see his big house and he said do you want to see it? Who’s lying????

      June 10th.. Satish

      My brother answered his phone and asked where we were. I told him that we were still inside Carlos & Charlies. He had told me that he was already at his car. I told him that we would come to where he was. I said to Joran that my brother was already at the car and if we were leaving, because Carlos & Charlies was about to close. Joran said that it was OK that we would be leaving and that the girl would be coming with us. We, Joran, the girl and myself, then walked outside.

      Joran’s Greta interview..

      VAN SUSTEREN: So, Deepak’s at the car. Satish is in front of you?
      VAN DER SLOOT: Satish was with us.

      VAN SUSTEREN: With you and then you and Natalee holding hands walked to the car?

      VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.

      VAN SUSTEREN: Any discussionBETWEEN CARLOS ‘N’ CHARLIES AND THE CAR BETWEEN YOU AND SATISH OR YOU AND NATALEE? Natalee?

      VAN DER SLOOT: No, just between me and Natalee. We were speaking English to each other and I asked her if she wanted to go back to her hotel and that’s when she said that she wanted to – she asked me if I — if I had a big house or not and then – then she said – I said to her “Do you want to see my house?” And she’s like “Yes, I want to go to your house.”

    255. Patti on January 14th, 2007 6:39 pm

      It’s obvious who is lying… Natalee’s school mates said that Joran was hanging around telling everyone that he was a student from Holland staying at the hotel.

      There is absolutely no reason that the Mountain Brook kids would lie. She was, supposedly, catching a ride back to the hotel… besides, who talks like that? I want to see your BIG house.

      I can hear ‘em now, Ma and Pa Kettle, thinking: She asked to see his big house! Nasty girl… it serves her right!

      Don’t forget the one about Natalee telling them that her mother was a nazi and owned slaves… and the Aruban’s started asking questions of Beth about her trip to Europe.

      They knew all the right buttons to push to give a southern white woman a black eye. Remember, at the time the U.S.was trying to pass an anti-lynching bill through congress. I guess you could say, that comment caused many to look at the case of Natalee Holloway as a race case. Smart they are and Ma and Pa were left wondering: are Southern people really like that?… while Beth was at the school making “Natalee” bracelets with the children.

      Someone was coaching…

      Boycott Aruba

    256. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 6:58 pm

      Paul’s saying “no body no case”

      ADD

      FBI, ALE & Oduber saw evidence of blood (alot) in Dipshit’s car that took Natalee away.

      Calling someone a body if ya know he/she’s not dead??
      makes so sense. Not even for these assclowns.

    257. Carpe Noctem on January 14th, 2007 7:35 pm

      Maybe I have been thinking a little… (it has been rumored to happen.)LOL

      I think maybe the truth (to me) lies somewhere up
      the middle between MD’s last post and Richard,
      a couple of posts ago.

      She was nabbed by the three morons. Joran the moron,
      TOTALLY gave her too much drug for her small body.

      She died while being groped and raped by at the least
      the three amigos in Joran’s pad. MD could very well
      be 100 percent correct about Paulas wanting a piece
      of the “action.”

      MD is “spot on” about saying that Aruba’s treatment
      of Paulass is both shocking and inexplicable. On the
      best day IT IS VERY FISHY!

      They have coddled and
      protected this human piece of
      sewage & there is just
      NO REASONABLE EXPLANATION ARUBA could possibly
      offer for their treatment of him!!!

      No question to me WHATSOEVER, this piece of you know
      what has received preferential treatment.

      If I had been the judge that awarded this franken-psycho
      30,000 Afl. for the assassination of Natalee Ann Holloway…

      …then you could add a THIRD death by HANGING to Aruba’s list of deaths this year!

      I would hang myself, I
      wouldn’t be able to live
      with a decision like that.

      *
      I think the death very likely occurred at
      the FRANKEN-SLOOTS
      of 19 Montanja.

      I think maybe the Marriott and Rock sites had to do
      with some clean up of her corpse, but I don’t think
      now that she was physically killed at these sites.

      I think these sites had more to do with FRANKEN-SLOOT
      and COMPANY Clean Up Patrol.

      The reason for much of the cover up is that the Island’s
      filthy underbelly of mafia driven enterprises was showing…

      of which, Pauluass and Joran, I believe are a part. There probably was a party there with many criminal elements that
      run the Dirty little Island.

      Aruba’s Power Broker Roaches Cock-A-Roach-kes
      / The Freaks Come Out At Night!

      Aruba is filthy, & very angry at Americans for
      no real apparent reason!

      The under current of hostility
      to Americanos is there,
      and it is tangible.

      Avoid Aruba like the
      CHRONIC BUBONIC if at
      all possible.

      It could very well save your life, & the
      lives of your loved ones!

      -J4N

      Justice for Natalee!

    258. Carpe Noctem on January 14th, 2007 7:40 pm

      Michaelllll, PHONNNNNNNE HOMMMMMMME!

      http://tinyurl.com/urX8j

      -J4N

    259. Patti on January 14th, 2007 7:47 pm

      Blood only indicates a struggle. There was not alot of it
      and upon testing, it’s not blood at all.

      It’s obvious who was running the show the night that
      Natalee went missing and it wasn’t Deepak, Satish
      or their car.

    260. nychic on January 14th, 2007 8:07 pm

      Key Point:

      What Father Calls His Son’s Friend To Inquire About
      Money Won At A Casino The Previous Night ???

      WTF Was Sweaty Man Sloot Doing Calling Guido Of All People ?

      Follow The Music ? More Like Follow The Money !

      IMO That Is Where The Answers Lie !

      ——
      Pearl –

      That Casino Video Is In The Same Place That
      Mike Posner Is — Where Is That Pic of Posner ?
      We Need A Missing From Aruba Bulletin Posted With That Pic !
      Grande Posted It – What Happened To It ?

    261. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 9:21 pm

      Wow nychic….i’ve never heard of old man Sloot calling Guido? About money won the previous night??

      Another thing is Paules talking about tears in videotape?~
      WHo was asking him about video tape anyway? lol Maaaan

    262. nychic on January 14th, 2007 9:26 pm

      #211 Carpe – Good Find !

      I Believe “Anneke” Spews Her Venom Here From Time To Time

    263. nychic on January 14th, 2007 9:29 pm

      Who Is IRV GOLDSTEIN ???

      Wonder What Posner’s Current Alias Is…

      Check Out Posner aka Irv Back In 1987:

      http://tinyurl.com/wex7v

    264. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 10:19 pm

      hmmm thats the only pic of Posner. shoot i was hoping an updated photo would float to the top by now.

    265. Patti on January 14th, 2007 10:24 pm

      He was calling to check up on the tapes that he knows are running at the tables. The tables have tapes running constantly to keep tabs on both the dealers and the players. He was afraid that he was going to show up on those videos… because he is your man.

      I think that Paulus waited at the Holiday Inn. There was a report of a man, a prowler, around the hotel… so they locked some of their entrances. I am not sure whether this was done to impede one’s escape or not, but it was done.

      I believe that Joran had met with Natalee. I don’t think that she was drugged, nor do I think that she was gang raped by them…. and I think that she was, indeed, dropped off at the Holiday Inn.

      I think that Paulus approached her and talked to her. I think that he had said something to her that made her want to run, but before she could, he hit her very hard in the head and knocked her out. I think that he dragged her away and upon awakening, she was tortured and murdered at the rocks.

      I think that the first lies told by the three boys are much closer to the truth than the second. I never believed that Natalee was at the house and the faces at the rocks don’t look drugged to me. They are wide awake and very scared and angry.

      I still think that the perp is only one person and I don’t think that there was a gang rape performed on Natalee. Just one sick bastard… that’s all.

      The boys were scared, they thought that they would be in a lot of trouble and I don’t think that they knew what happened to Natalee. In the case of the Kalpoes, I don’t think that they know, to this day, what happened to Natalee.

      I may be wrong… so I call her missing… I try not to argue because none of us know for sure and until I know otherwise, I shall remain hopeful.

      As for the pimps, I am a mother of a teenager. I hear that word mentioned periodically and have stopped questioning it a long time ago. I don’t like it, but, to the young, it means the same as a “fox” or “foxy lady”, it simply means that you have alot of girl/boy friends.

      Now: As for human trafficking – it happens and it is the main reason that people go missing… so it is always a possibility.

      Let’s just keep the boycott going so that someday, we may all know the truth; instead of arguing over could’ve beens, because no matter what your theory, corruption runs in all of them.

      Preferential Treatment – that’s a start!

      Boycott Aruba

    266. Richard on January 14th, 2007 10:27 pm

      To me, the significance of the remarks about the “big house” (how would Natalee know that they had a big house?) is that the speakers are painfully aware of the “wealth gap” between most Arubans and the average American family.

      This goes back to what I said earlier: there is a kind of subconscious (maybe it’s not buried so deeply as that!) envy of these American tourists, who seem to be so privileged and have the wealth to come to Aruba and lie about, having a good time and thinking that they run the world, on the part of Arubans.

      So tell me … if you’re a predator, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TARGET? Especially if you’ve demonstrated your ability to drug and rape local girls, with no adverse results.

      The American tourists, in Aruba, represent the epitome of the privileged life. Resentment of that might well resonate within the mind of a psychopath.

      That’s not to say, of course, that every Aruban, or most, or even many, want to wreak “vengeance” on Americans.

      But it could well be a potent factor lingering in the unconscious….

    267. Richard on January 14th, 2007 10:33 pm

      Patti (#258), the slave remark is, I believe, total hokum and totally contrived. It’s aimed at the KALPOES, not to mention other Arubans … why should you feel sorry for this white American who looks down on you?

      I don’t for a second think that Natalee thought or said anything of the kind.

      It’s the absolutely crudest kind of lie. I think it’s intended as an incendiary device (metaphorically speaking) to get the Kalpoes angry (they certainly seem to be angry at Natalee … Deepak called her a “slut” and “no goody two-shoes”). I think the remark was a calculated lie.

      Trying to confirm them in their hatred of Natalee? And of Beth? For what purpose? So they won’t talk?

    268. Patti on January 14th, 2007 10:44 pm

      Richard:

      I agree. The Kalpoes were manipulated by that remark. The Aruban people were turned against Beth, the investigation was stalled and the American people were appauled.

      Calculated, indeed… by the psychopath that was doing the coaching – Paulus!

    269. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 11:08 pm

      Richard i concur with you on that i’ve sensed undertones of that hostility you speak of.

    270. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 11:16 pm

      Hey Carpe!

      Did ya have the chance to compare the 2 photo’s i sent you last week?

    271. mayan_moons on January 14th, 2007 11:19 pm

      I was stunned when we saw that little bit of casino footage nychic! How’d that get out there? Posner maybe?

    272. Patti on January 14th, 2007 11:58 pm

      Richard:

      I found that information during my research on lynching.
      I could never imagine why the perps would make up such a
      lie, but upon reading how the press reacted, I understood.
      They were desperate to keep people from talking… sadly,
      they still are.

      Our thoughts and prayers go out
      to the family of Camilo Romero.

      Goodnight…

    273. nychic on January 15th, 2007 12:14 am

      mayan -

      Grande posted a more current pic of Posner several months ago – I wish I would have copied it –

      I was hoping Carpe had snagged it –
      I’ll bet Klaas has it somewhere ?

      As far as the casino video – from what I remember – those small pieces of video was what was shown to Beth when she arrived in Aruba in order to identify Joran – who many had witnessed at the casino and at Carlos n Charlies -

      Natalee’s friends did not know Joran’s name – but knew that Natalee had spoken with him and that he was playing blackjack at their table – Joran said he was 19 and claimed to be a soccer player from Holland (fat chance)

    274. mayan_moons on January 15th, 2007 12:45 am

      Thanks nychic!

      How come we don’t have any sightings of Posner for all these months. Sure haven’t heard a peep outta those Kalpukes either.

      Anyone ask DeVries if he’d been in contact with the tv female hanging victim? Ya know somethings up with that then someone comes here & suggests the 2 hanging victims “were lovers”?

    275. mayan_moons on January 15th, 2007 1:03 am

      Is it true Rudy Croes is married to one of Jossy’s cousins?

    276. mayan_moons on January 15th, 2007 1:09 am

      Richard…..in reading some early posts there is what looks to me like jealousy. Saying stuff like Beth & Jug acted like they were better than other people. I didn’t see that from them at all, just people scared to death for their daughter & wondering if they’d ever see her again.

    277. nychic on January 15th, 2007 1:43 am

      mayan -

      Mike Posner has always been “in hiding”

      Posner fled Aruba following Natalee’s disappearance -

      Beth received a threatening phone call from Posner after
      she revealed that she was informed by Karin Janssen about the Sloot’s Line of Credit at The Excelsior Casino -

      check out one of Red’s articles about Mr. Posner:

      http://tinyurl.com/hj5f4

    278. mayan_moons on January 15th, 2007 1:51 am

      I know there are snobby people who look down on others & ya know what……i feel sorry for them. For if all their money made them happy they would not feel the need to do that.

      Natalee worked part time & paid half the cost of the trip to Aruba with her own money. Her trip to Aruba was a hard earned reward after many years of hard work in school. That hard work paid off & Natalee was going to med school that Fall so this trip was going to be her last chance to travel on vacation before college began.

      Her Last Chance….

      Turned out to be her last chance to do anything.

    279. nychic on January 15th, 2007 2:01 am

      Another possible alias for Posner: “Walter”

      check it out:

      (guess Posner ain’t doing too well now that online
      gambling is no longer legal in the U.S.)
      ————
      Aruba’s Oldest Casino Now Online
      by Chuck Greene, WINNERonline
      19 Jun 2000

      Aruba’s oldest casino has just become the Western Hemisphere’s first land-based casino to offer gambling on the Internet. Excelsior Casino, operating as a successful brick and mortar casino for 30 years, has partnered with GamblingSoftware.com to launch {edited}excelsiorcasino dot com

      “It’s a natural progression for us,” said Walter Posner, Owner of Excelsior Casino. “We’re going to bring 30 years of experience and credibility from our land-based operation to the Web.”

      Excelsior Casino Aruba is located in the Holiday Inn Resort, Aruba, a 600 room facility. The casino has been in existance for 30 years.
      ———–

      Wonder where that Posner criminal is ?

    280. just moma on January 15th, 2007 6:12 am

      Caption for the cartoon:

      “Look out, here comes the Monkey Express!”

    281. Richard on January 15th, 2007 8:24 am

      Patti and Mayan Moons: so it’s agreed that American tourists on Aruba are seen as privileged, distinct from the locals, and vulnerable. I don’t think this is too extreme a statement; it’s probably true of tourists in most places.

      And I’m not saying that Arubans are unique in this, or any better or worse than people anywhere else.

      But to those who are disposed to be predators, the “outsider” tourist is a likely target.

      No need to rehash my argument about what the Dutch kids with whom Joran hung out might have dreamed up. In a way, they’re outsiders too … but privileged outsiders, overseers. The purpose of their families being in Aruba was to dominate the locals. They can do no wrong.

      The only racism involved is not the spurious remark about slavery attributed to Natalee, which nobody believes for a second, but rather the ability of the Dutch overlords to snap their fingers and have the locals do their bidding.

      I’m sure it’s not that simple, but in my fumbling way I’m trying to set out the basis of unconscious hubris that may have been in the subconscious of the “Pimps.” And I suppose that young people who think that way test the boundaries … which most young people do anyway, in one form or another.

      In essence, I guess, the “slave” remark betrayed not what Natalee thought, but what THEY thought. So why did the Kalpoes accompany Joran on this fateful night? Why these two kids whom Joran hardly knew, and who were not in his economic or social league?

      My guess: what was to happen was to be their possible initiation into the league of the “Pimps.” The others didn’t want to get involved until it was safe for them to do so … these two could be the “muscle” of the operation.

    282. Richard on January 15th, 2007 8:41 am

      So how do we explain the contemptuous way in which Deepak Kalpoe spoke of Natalee on the Dr. Phil show, talking about (if I remember rightly) her sluttish clothing and her being no “Goody Two-Shoes”? Consider that these remarks were the contrary of what he might have been expected to say; after all, impugning the missing girl only made him look bad.

      Was this a kind of defense mechanism, a blaming of the victim because the only way he can justify a sexual assault is to say she was loose (“asking for it”)? Of course, I’m not saying that is the truth, because we KNOW IT WAS NOT.

      I’m saying this is how he, and the others, may have distorted reality. Just as the Aruban government has done.

      Can we take this a step further, and say that (as they see it) whatever happened to Natalee was justified? If they handed her over to someone, or sold her, that it didn’t matter, not really, because she was one of those “loose” American tourists, the outsiders who come to Aruba to flaunt their wealth and act as if they are invulnerable?

      I’m not expressing this well, in part because I’m not sure where I’m trying to go with this idea, but I think that the underlying psychological hostility that these remarks display could support the idea that they handed her over to someone as a kind of final debasement. The Americans think they can come here and forever be safe? We will prove that this is not true. We will strike by taking one of them at their most vulnerable, and show that they cannot protect their own even when they are all together.

      Well, this definitely sounds like I’m going off the deep end, doesn’t it? But for the suspect in a missing-person case to say the things about that person that Kalpoe said about Natalee on that Dr. Phil show (this is wholly separate from the alleged doctoring of the tapes) suggests to me that some self-defense mental mechanism is at work.

      And some underlying pathological hatred may be as well.

      And perhaps in one way or another, this was shared among the Pimps, not consciously, but as a factor in the group dynamics that may have led them to target a tourist girl.

    283. JusticeforNatalee on January 15th, 2007 9:02 am

      Debbie posted this at BFN. It was originally posted by MF at FOB:
      (copied verbatim)

      “mr. Karin Janen is leaving the island of Aruba today. She will return to the Netherlands after her contract expired. Also it is being speculating that the spkesperson for the Prosecutor’s Office, Mariaine Croes, has received an offer to be the next spokesperson for the Valero Group. No word yet if she will accept this offer.”

    284. JusticeforNatalee on January 15th, 2007 10:12 am

      Karin Janssen is leaving Aruba.

      It turns out the fireworks she promised us is
      just the exhaust from the jet
      that is taking her inept tookus to Holland.

    285. Richard on January 15th, 2007 10:17 am

      Thanks for posting that, JusticeforNatalee … it will be cited in the letter I’m writing to Queenie Beatrix.

      More lies from Aruba, more promises that come to nothing.

      So who is being protected by this all-engulfing web of silence and lies? A few punk kids? A wannabe lawyer who didn’t even get his judgeship?

      Seems to be way beyond that, don’t you think?

      One more thought … evidently when the three scum drove off with Natalee, one of them, presumably Deepak, began playing a porn video.

      Did his porn tapes feature young blond Caucasians? One wonders….

    286. minnesota dad on January 15th, 2007 11:01 am

      AHHHH.

      A cover-up played out further. Karin Janssen to leave just four months prior to the case going “cold”.

      Who is going to replace her??? Well, let’s take a few months to figure that out…and then that new person will need at least three months to ‘get up to speed” on the case.

      Voila, we have hit two years and can release the suspects.

      Maybe this new person could take action to reverse the decisions made by Paulus’ black robed friends to insulate and protect him from his crimes. Nah, that would mean the person would have morals…and at this point in time I do not believe Aruba or the Dutch will put a person with high morals in this position – as there is way too much at risk for some folks down there.

      The fact that she has played this out with no intention of taking action is sickening. Aruba is a bad, bad place.

      Board up your businesses Aruba….we ain’t coming! md

    287. JusticeforNatalee on January 15th, 2007 11:18 am

      MD–please send your comments about voiding judgments to the queen.

      It can’t hurt. At least she will know that we know.

      Know what I mean?

    288. chris on January 15th, 2007 11:36 am

      Anyone writing to the Queen, why not attach a few pictures of her favorite son Joran passed out drunk and or flashing big amounts of money. Might drive home a point.

    289. Patti on January 15th, 2007 12:55 pm

      Chris:

      I agree… we need to tell her something that will snap her conscience. The problem that I see is that it appears she may not have one. In a country that requires no more than a license to run the worst brothels in the world and holds them up as tourist attractions, there is no conscience.

      There is a post on the first page that is a good example to the way that The Netherlands turns a blind eye toward the victimization of women in their country; requiring no more than a license and encouraging its’ citizens and banks to form a partnership in the financing of these investments. It is hard to stay optomistic given The Netherlands lack of compassion that is clearly shown by such actions.

      In a world that is growing ever more violent, the U.S. has stated that they have a no-tolerance policy against crime; while The Netherlands pride themselves on their tolerance. They call it being democratic, allowing the right of another to exist. They protect the rights of a few with little or no regard for the hundreds of thousands of victims that these loose and immoral people leave in their wake.

      I take no pride in having to beg the Queen, the monarch of such a country, to have mercy on a child while she allows the children in her country to be assaulted, molested and murdered everyday. How can a queen that allows her country to be the number one source of child pornography be concerned with the justice of Natalee Hollaway or any other child for that matter… and who is she that we should have to beg?

      Truly, her tolerance for all the things that are bad and immoral has made her country the laughing stalk of the world. To pride yourself on attracting visitors because drugs and prostitution are legal is a disgrace to everything that we know in our hearts to be right. It is beause of greed and self-indulgence that all those thousands of mothers are crying in Russia, seeking out their missing, while her drug lords and her kingpens sell out their bodies and minds in their dungeons, never to be heard from again.

      You are breeding some of the worst the world has ever seen with your brothels and your films. While most of the world are running away from the psychopaths, you welcome them. While most of the world is crying for their missing children, you are opening your gates to take them in, along with the sick ones that want to take pictures of them and their small bodies. While most of the world is saying that they have had enough, you are crying out in a most disgusting and perverted way that you could never get enough.

      How stupid of us to even imagine that one as crooked, corrupt and perverted as yourself could do anything to help a cause that is about getting justice for, yet, another one that goes missing. Your son, Aruba, has stolen our child and if there is no justice in Aruba, the whole world shall spit in your face.

      That’s what I would like to tell her.

      Justice for Natalee

    290. JusticeforNatalee on January 15th, 2007 1:10 pm

      Rocky Balboa’s salutation to Queen Beatrix:

      “Yo, Bea”

    291. Crioyo (in Aruba) on January 15th, 2007 1:48 pm

      274. hey hey hey, the lovers thing was just a random thought.

      Another suicide this morning. Tow truck driver, last name wessels. Gassed himself with car exhaust I think..
      Found today. They say he was prob lonely, and his wife btw
      killed herself a couple years ago by drinking poison, according to what they said on the news.

      So you see Monkeys, Arubans are sad..The boycott will probably get more of us depressed and killed.

    292. Miss-Underestimated on January 15th, 2007 1:58 pm

      http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

      Natalee Holloway is still listed on the FBI list of missing persons.

    293. Patti on January 15th, 2007 2:02 pm

      Perhaps the marque should read:

      Aruba One Dutch Island

      and the many that know the truth about The Netherlands
      and its’ tolerance will know to stay away.

    294. Richard on January 15th, 2007 2:08 pm

      http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Netherlands-2.htm

      THE NETHERLANDS (TIER 1) [Extracted from U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June 2006]

      The Netherlands is a destination and transit country for the trafficking of women and girls for the purpose of sexual exploitation; some trafficking for labor exploitation occurs. Victims continued to be trafficked from Central and Eastern Europe, Nigeria and Brazil. Reportedly, a significant percentage of the 25,000 individuals engaged in prostitution are trafficking victims. Internal trafficking of young, mostly foreign girls by Moroccan and Turkish pimps into sexual exploitation continued. The Netherlands Antilles, where the Netherlands exercises responsibility over visa issuance according to guidelines issued by the Netherlands Antilles, continued to be a concern as a transit region and destination for illegal migrants, some of whom may have been trafficked.

      *******************

      THE DUTCH CARIBBEAN AUTONOMOUS REGIONS

      Anecdotal reporting suggests that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, autonomous regions within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, are transit and destination regions for trafficking of men, women, and children for sexual exploitation and domestic servitude, as well as forced labor in the construction and agriculture sectors. Curacao, Aruba, and Saint Maarten are destination islands for women trafficked for the sex trade from Peru, Brazil, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, and Haiti, according to local observers. At least 500 foreign women reportedly are in prostitution throughout the five islands of the Antilles, SOME OF WHOM HAVE BEEN TRAFFICKED. While in the past women in prostitution could enter the Netherlands Antilles as tourists and engage in prostitution legally for up to three months, special work visas must now be obtained prior to their arrival in the autonomous regions; these permits are not transferable. There are also reports of children being trafficked for sexual exploitation, particularly from the Dominican Republic. Visas for Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles are issued by Dutch Embassies following review by Aruban or Netherlands Antilles’ authorities. In 2005, allegations of corruption were made against Aruban and Antillean authorities in both immigration and issuance of work permits. The Antilles government, however, aggressively prosecuted general corruption. In 2005, the Netherlands and Aruba signed a protocol to restrict the admission of women traveling to work as dancers, after ALLEGATIONS EMERGED THAT OVER 400 WOMEN IN PROSTITUTION WERE ISSUED WORK PERMITS BY THE ARUBA GOVERNMENT ILLEGALLY. Officials conducted some awareness-raising about trafficking during the reporting period. Visa controls were reportedly tightened in 2005. The Dutch government increased funding for an ongoing IOM trafficking prevention and capacity building program in the Antilles, providing $165,000 in 2005. The governments of the Netherlands, Aruba, and the Netherlands Antilles should collaborate more effectively to detect trafficking to the Antilles and investigate and prosecute those behind this trade.

      (end of excerpts)

      The stuff in capital letters was put that way by me.

      Just thought it would be interesting; illegal visas issued by the Aruban government. The conclusion is that authorities should “investigate and prosecute those behind this trade” … isn’t it strange that this apparently isn’t being done?

    295. Patti on January 15th, 2007 2:42 pm

      Hey Crioyo:

      We love ya and you know that. The boycott could be the
      very thing that needs to happen to put an end to your
      suffering and an end to much of the violence in the world.

    296. Carpe Noctem on January 15th, 2007 3:45 pm

      To that rusty old wombat, Karin Jaansen.

      Don’t let the door…

      Thanks for nuttin.

      -J4N

    297. Carpe Noctem on January 15th, 2007 3:49 pm

      Hey Mayan,

      I did look at them, a couple of times actually.

      I couldn’t make things out in that picture.

      All, I could see was shadow play. Sorry!

    298. Carpe Noctem on January 15th, 2007 3:56 pm
    299. Richard on January 15th, 2007 3:57 pm

      Hey, Crioyo, you know what you can do to help remove the boycott (though I can’t imagine anyone going to Aruba at this point, at least not if they have normal forethought and prudence) … get us answers.

      And you know what will keep the boycott in place … Aruba’s continuing refusal to give us answers.

    300. mayan_moons on January 15th, 2007 5:06 pm

      Carpe!

      Ahh okay thanks for looking!

    301. mayan_moons on January 15th, 2007 5:23 pm

      Richard you do a wonderful job sizing up & conveying the social dynamics going on here. Jurine manipulating the brothers, providing a reason for the Kalpuke’s to hate her. Making them less likely for either one of them would want to intervene when they witness or participate the brutality being put on Natalee.

    302. yoyo muffintop on January 15th, 2007 8:02 pm

      Patti – I don’t think a boycott of Aruba is going to put an “end to much of the violence in the world”, no offense. #295 was you trying to be funny, right?

    303. Carpe Noctem on January 15th, 2007 9:12 pm

      #300 anytime mayan!

    304. Patti on January 15th, 2007 11:53 pm

      Hey! If it’s just one life that gets saved as a result of the things we do, it’s worth it. Take a hint, let down your guard and do something positive… You don’t have to agree with everybody, but the least you could do is be kind.

    305. Oregon on January 16th, 2007 3:23 pm

      The photo of the present day Michael Posner
      is actually of a Oregon Professor named Michael Posner.

      http://tinyurl.com/yekqvo

    306. jfly on April 9th, 2007 5:49 pm

      My Opinions,thoughts and some facts!
      OMG!- is all I could think after a short discussion I had with my mother about jsut soem of what is going on in ARUBA~ who is a native arubian- my family is from aruba and in the early 80′s they moved to the U.S. we have gone back to aruba several times but not in the last 7yrs- we stay updated by reading the local paper(Diario online) I have many family living in aruba aunts,uncles,cousins and an elderly grandmother that lives alone and I FEAR for her SAFETY!!!
      LET ME MAKE SOMETHING CLEAR~
      ARUBA- was a HAPPY ISLAND
      ARUBA- was a SAFE ISLAND
      ARUBA – was a GREAT VACATION SPOT FOR ALL!!!
      until Holland gave Aruba over to the arubian people 15 yrs ago.
      Since then Aruba’s government has become corrupt-and not to mention aruba has let any TOM DICK AND HARRY into Aruba!
      LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR 99% of arubians are nice, friendly,quite AND peaceful-
      MOST OF THESE ACTS OF HATE, VOILENCE, SEX, DRUGS, PROSTITUTION AND MORE ARE CAUSED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT FLEE TO ARUBA FROM COLOMBIA-VENEZUELA-DOMINICA R.
      GO HOME COLOMBIA
      GO HOME VENEZUELA
      GO HOME D. REPUBLICA
      GO HOMEEEEEEE
      WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!!
      how long is Holland going to sit back and watch as they destroy our beautiful home- our beautiful country!!!
      ARUBA IS NOT WHAT IT ONCE WAS! AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING AND DO IT FAST!
      WE NEED TO WRITE TO THE QUEEN- AND TELL HER TO HELP US HELP ARUBA- HELP THE PEOPLE GET OUT OF THIS TERRIBLE TERRIBLE SITUATION! ARUBA’S GOVERNMENT IS SO NAIVE- THEY JUST SIT BACK AND LET IT ALL HAPPEN- CANT THEY SEE WHAT THEY ARE DOING?- FOR GODS SAKE WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!!!!
      WHERE IS THE MORAL!
      WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALIE HOLLOWAY- HOW COULD THEY NOT FIND HER BODY- HOW COULD THEY LET THAT DUTCH KID OFF SO EASY- WHILE HES OFF TO COLLEGE IN HOLLAND HAVING A GOOD TIME LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ARUBA-
      THEY ARE LOOSING MONEY- THEY ARE CRYING FOR AMERICANS TO GO SPEND MONEY YET ONCE THEY GET THERE THEY MISTREAT TOURISTSSSSSSSS
      ONCE AGAIN- ITS NOT THE NATIVE ARUBIANS- THAT I CAN SWEAR ON ANYTING- ITS THESE DAMN IMMIGRANTS THAT HAVE BROUGHT THIS ONTO OUR COUNTRY!!!!
      WHAT THE HELL!!!
      FEEL FREE TO COMMENT- SORRY FOR ANY MISPELLED WORDS- VERY UPSET AND TYING FAST!
      HAVE A GOOD DAY!

    307. Protests Against Nepotism Oduber Cabinet in Aruba | Scared Monkeys on October 28th, 2007 2:48 pm

      [...] protests on “One Happy Island” against the Nelson Oduber, MEP Cabinet. If Arubans can understand the unfair practice of [...]

    308. Cialis. on October 8th, 2008 6:26 pm

      Cialis….

      Buy cialis. Cheapest cialis. Cialis….

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