Aruba: Judge Smid, Should the suspects be taken off the list? … ask the Magic 8 Ball

 

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If you liked this post, you may also like these:

  • Suspect Hearing Case in Aruba Concludes … Joran Van der Sloot, Kalpoes & Security Guards Wait for Decision
  • Beth Twitty Remembers her daughter Natalee Holloway’s birthdays
  • Joran, Deepak, Satish … No Soup for You. Three Suspects Remain Suspects in Aruba
  • Diario: Judge denies attorney Carlo’s request to declare Joran van der Sloot no longer a suspect
  • Bon Dia: Public Prosecutor has to decide if it will prosecute suspects in the case of Natalee Holloway




  • Comments

    258 Responses to “Aruba: Judge Smid, Should the suspects be taken off the list? … ask the Magic 8 Ball”

    1. MIss-Underestimated on December 1st, 2006 12:12 pm

      NO Judge Smid do not leave your family the legacy as the Judge who helped destroy Aruba.

    2. Sharon Chicago on December 1st, 2006 12:27 pm

      Judge Smid…this case is no longer Aruba in Charge…it is known nationwide….Holland is now watching very closely… I don’t think you can afford to play Aruba’s corrupt games with them when the camera is on you!!

      Your turn…

    3. JusticeforNatalee on December 1st, 2006 12:29 pm

      http://www.rtl.nl/shows/jensen/video/

      De Vries on Jensen’s show

      Calling our Dutch friends–can someone please translate. Thanks!

    4. mac on December 1st, 2006 12:40 pm

      They don’t need the 8 ball. They know who did it. They will just not prosecute them. I don’t know why but they won’t. I just wish our government would do more. They just sit back and are doing less than Aruba. WHY?

    5. jackson80 on December 1st, 2006 1:02 pm

      he takes his order from the mother country, you can count on this case
      being swept under the rug so to speak. corruption is beyond belief on
      the island, imo.

    6. elisabeth on December 1st, 2006 1:43 pm

      (3) Peter told that he was convinced that the case could be solved, he was hopeful that the Dutch police team would succeed. He and the police are convinced that the van der Sloot residence is the crime scene and that the limitation of the search warrant was incredible. He could not understand why anyone would spend 250 dollar on a picture falsification.

    7. SUPER DAVE on December 1st, 2006 2:53 pm

      search the sloot house and evidence will be found.

    8. molly on December 1st, 2006 2:56 pm

      Aruba is so corrupt that it is disfunctional. It won’t be long before it collapses from within, unless something serious is done about Natalee’s disappearance. No doubt in the intelligent world’s mind that Joran is guilty. He and his pop need to be hug from the highest yardarm. Ahoy! Aruba is going out to sea………lost island of Aruba.

      molly (in Houston)

    9. JusticeforNatalee on December 1st, 2006 3:09 pm

      Thanks, Elisabeth!

      Hear that, Anita?

      How does it feel to know that your home was the most likely crime scene?

    10. vicki on December 1st, 2006 3:13 pm

      #6, thank you and we monkeys welcome you.

    11. JusticeforNatalee on December 1st, 2006 3:13 pm

      Does anyone think that the reason Janssen doesn’t press charges is because she doesn’t yet have enough evidence for a murder conviction?

      I remember reading in Dave’s book that he was willing to wait for the maximum charge.

    12. MIss-Underestimated on December 1st, 2006 3:23 pm

      Thanks Elisabeth

      Whooo I betcha someone is sweating alot today…which house
      main or the playboy’s pad?

    13. MIss-Underestimated on December 1st, 2006 3:32 pm

      Betcha alot of money was withdawn on that morning huh?

      De Vries, keep it going, I betcha alot of Arrid Extra gonna be needed.

    14. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 3:36 pm

      no judge takes orders in the Kingdom. Judges are completely independent and that is how it should be.

      Judge Smid will rule according to the laws and jurisprudence available for him to make his decision on.

    15. Bob in Florida on December 1st, 2006 3:46 pm

      Regarding comment 7:

      By now there would be almost no hope of finding any evidence of Natalee having ever been in the Sloot residence, much less crime scene evidence. They have replaced carpeting, furniture etc. and have undoubtedly scrubbed down the whole house numerous times to remove biological/physical evidence. ALE and the corrupt Aruban judges made sure the Sloots were given the time to do what was needed to clean up. ALE (even if it is merely incompetent and not criminally involved in the cover-up) failed to seize the items removed from the Sloot house (old carpet etc.) before they were destroyed. If this case is solved, it will be solved by someone involved cracking and providing evidence…but with no real investigation or pressure being applied…it doesn’t look good for anyone cracking. However, I could be wrong, perhaps in a few years when Urine is smugly convinced he is safe, he will write a book just like his egomaniacal kindred spirit OJ…

    16. Frank on December 1st, 2006 3:53 pm

      Well well if it isn’t Mark Purcell’s towelboy assuring us the Judge Smid is incorruptable.

      And how does he know? He doesn’t. More defense of Dutch sleaze from a load of Dutch Cheese.

    17. Richard on December 1st, 2006 4:06 pm

      I agree with Bob in Florida … if the house was the “crime scene,” it has been thoroughly sanitized. Besides, who can say that even if it were searched again, the searchers would be interested in finding anything? Certainly nobody in Aruba would be competent to take a step in this regard.

      I also agree that pressure on individuals at this point seems to be the most likely way of getting any info. But to levy this pressure, I think we will collectively have to work on the Dutch to make clear to Aruba what they want.

      And of course, we can continue to do what we can …

      BOYCOTT ARUBA.

    18. MIss-Underestimated on December 1st, 2006 4:07 pm

      Bob I am hoping De Vries will put a squeeze to the *****s of someone who will sign like a Canary on a sunny day.

      Too many have been involved, the ALE thought it would not get past the stinkin pigs there but alas hope abounds. Remember the house of cards will fall.

      “Its a murder case, I know the facts and you don’t”

      ” Shut up or I will shut this case down”

      Yes words spoken to a mother of a murdered daughter, words you can’t take back. What kind of animals says that?

      Pigs?

      Mr. De Vries show em whatcha got…clean the pig sty.

    19. Richard on December 1st, 2006 4:10 pm

      And as I said before, IF this judge (who supposedly has personal ties with the van der Sloots, according to what we’ve been told before, and who is the idiot who let van der Scum out of jail in the first place) takes any of the three off the suspect list …

      THEN a tourist advisory against Aruba is a matter of common sense that practically is yelling and screaming in the street, demanding to be imposed.

      Even our politicians must be able to see that. I hope.

    20. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 4:26 pm

      response to number 16

      well, well, it sounds the “mr. Hatred” is back to insult some more. Gotten sick yet of attacking Robin Holloway?

      Fact is that Judge Smid and almost all judges in the Kingdom are independent and fair/honest/trustworthy/very high ethical and moral standard.

    21. Dave on December 1st, 2006 4:30 pm

      “no judge takes orders in the Kingdom. Judges are completely independent and that is how it should be.

      Judge Smid will rule according to the laws and jurisprudence available for him to make his decision on.

      Comment by Rammstein”

      Oh is that right? You seem so sure of this, you must have inside info? I would’nt bet my life on it.

      Another Joran supporter? Jeesh give me a break.

      J4N

    22. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 4:30 pm

      Actually Richard, Judge Smid only arrived on the island of Curacao in the first few months of 2005. He had only been there for 2 months as a judge when Natalee went missing.

      He was a judge at the court of Dordrecht and before that he was that National District Attorney for a department of the Ministry of Justice that prosecutes `money-laundering` etc.

    23. Dave on December 1st, 2006 4:31 pm

      “Fact is that Judge Smid and almost all judges in the Kingdom are independent and fair/honest/trustworthy/very high ethical and moral standard.”

      Joke of the day LOL!

    24. MIss-Underestimated on December 1st, 2006 4:32 pm

      Well Richard, then we will have to work harder for to get politicans to get the picture. No rest until Natalee Hollway is returned home and justice is served.

    25. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 4:38 pm

      Response to number 23:

      and you would know that how Dave? Got personal experience?

      Or are you just spreading rumors with nothing to back them up?

      The dutch judiciary holds itself to the highest possible standards and does not condone corruption and or improper behaviour of any kind or shape. Misbehave as a judge and you can kiss your career goodbye.

    26. SUPER DAVE on December 1st, 2006 4:39 pm

      there’s always a chance that sloot forgot something in the house. and if some judge with guts ( if there is such a thing there) signed a search warrant, there is also a chance that sloot would panic, make some kind of mistake, or flat out crap his pants.maybe even anita would break and tell all she knows. anything is worth a shot. some animals sit until they are flushed out then they get brought down !

    27. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 4:41 pm

      response to Miss-Underestimated:

      but politicians do not even have a say in who gets prosecuted or not, they have no influence whatsoever whether justice gets served or not. As said, the judiciary is independent and as long as a case is not proven legally and convincingly no judge will convict anyone of a crime.

    28. Gunslinger on December 1st, 2006 4:41 pm

      I’m bettin’ it’ll take smid about 24 more days to render his decision.

    29. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 4:43 pm

      question to Super Dave:

      what do you think could possibly be found inside the van der Sloot house that could prove Joran killed (or did something else criminally culpable) to Natalee?

    30. tuyvnsurvivor on December 1st, 2006 4:46 pm

      Not so sure the fellows are best off to be removed from the suspect category.

      1. Can another government send in the black suits and fast boat to wisk them away for ‘international interest and reason’. Probably not, but doubt they should rest thouroughly, not giving it a thought.

      2. And if we do feel there has been upper level corruption under a independant flag, siding to the belief nothing is free, what is the debt here, who pays dearly?

      3. Risk of further demize. If this ordeal got lie to add to lie and higher involvement, contaminating one high level crook with another much without want to and need to know, are we going to start seeing some silencing of some of the bit part players? Over the next 2 or less years…lot of money and hardknockers involved here. Corruption is never played out as a one hand game.

      4. Now think about it, all having payed attention to corrutive cover-ups before. Any doubt the punks are a liability? Too just how many factions would be the bigger puzzle. What, since we are rubbing our magic eightballs, do we estimated their life spans? I say no more than 5 years before bumped off by the precise same ones who got suckered deeper, lie to protect lie, and shared far more love than they wished to give.

      This is no threat. I have no means or desire to do the boys harm. But I think once they are off the suspect status, bowels of the already involved syndicates change. 5 years max, let’s watch, and the 3 nats are gone, much faster if they are sqeeky.

    31. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 4:48 pm

      Actually Gunslinger, normally a ruling will be made public/read after 14 days. Sometimes this is sooner (like in a “kort geding”, which this is not. “Kort Geding” is a case where in a simple issue a rush/immediate judgement is asked because of time-restrictions) but it hardly ever is later.

      He might decide to “suspend” the case for a while to wait for the dutch police to finish their first scan of the evidence.

    32. Richard on December 1st, 2006 4:53 pm

      To my mind, when Judge Smid arrived on Curacao isn’t the question (though thank you for supplying that information).

      And by the way, Curacao is where Amy Bradley disappeared in 1998, in the early morning of March 24, just one day after their ship was docked in Curacao and one of the ship’s waiters asked the Bradleys if he and other crew members could take Amy to Carlos ‘n’ Charlies.

      The reputation of Curacao is as sleazy as the reputation of Aruba has become, and was so a long time earlier.

      But anyway, the point is: this judge was the one who let JvdS out of jail. One day later, his parents put him on the plane to Holland … so much for making even the pretense of decency.

      I don’t think any person with a normal degree of skepticism will believe that this judge couldn’t get to Aruba for the Nov. 1 date for which the hearing was originally set. It’s clear that he was pressured to defer the hearing.

      Now the Peter deVries show has fomented new interest in the case, at least in the Netherlands, judging from comments we’ve read here. But remember, folks, the media are fickle partners at best.

      It’s going to be a long slog to get anything at all. But the media give and take … they react to news, headlines and other developments. Those of us who support the family have to keep exerting what pressure we can on our politicians and on opinion at large. So I think, at least.

    33. blackbelt on December 1st, 2006 4:54 pm

      So which Aruban lodge ‘blessed’ this holy event — was it Lodge El Sol Naciente, Masonic Lodge Hiram Lodge, Masonic Lodge King Salomon or maybe the Lordship from the Hague himself?

    34. Frank on December 1st, 2006 5:00 pm

      “politicians do not even have a say who gets prosecuted…”

      That is the joke of the day.

    35. windy city on December 1st, 2006 5:03 pm

      Rammstein,

      Do you have any knowledge if Paulus has any kind of personal relationship with Judge Smid? I have no clue. I have read that Smid stayed with the VDS but I can’t recall a credible source. If true, wouldn’t that create a conflict? Shouldn’t Smid recuse himself? I don’t have these answers and thought maybe you did.

      TIA

    36. Mortella on December 1st, 2006 5:22 pm

      #29, well there surely must be something for Judge Witt and Ben Vocking to personally block a search. Makes me wonder just what there is to hide so desperately.

      Lots of things are found in forensic evidence. If you are not familiar with it you can find many good books on the subject at Amazon.com.

      Is Smid the judge who allowed the baseball player to pay money rather than obey the law and go to jail? Or was that yet another of these bastions of integrity?

      Yes, we have seen this high level of ethics and integrity all throughout this investigation and that is why we have no “evidence” today–they refused to collect it at the proper time. And wasn’t it this same Judge Smid who met in private behind closed doors with the Sloot parents right before he released Joran? Again, what were they hiding? I have never heard of such a thing as any judge meeting with one party and no representation from the other, in this case KJ, present. That is not ethical behavior at all. Quite the opposite in fact but then obviously, had she or someone from Natalee’s family been present, they might have seen what this judge so blatantly did not want seen. They would have heard what he did not want heard.

      Guess this high ethical judge never heard of avoiding the appearance of wrong doing? None of them has exhibited anything that has earned one shred of confidence on my part. They appear just as corrupt as the rest of the judicial system in Aruba and that’s pretty bad.

    37. parascope on December 1st, 2006 5:22 pm

      The game is over;
      The monkey is connected to the microwave;
      The grateful dead are talking;
      and they say;
      That the greyhounds are walking;
      In their shoes.
      Thanks to 46 of 72 Great Keys

    38. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 5:32 pm

      Was the Judge a freemason too with all those secret rooms at the lodge. Natalee was hidden in plain sight-was that in a secret room at the lodge? King Solomons keys-not gold paths that freemasons speak of. Masonic cult activities. Bifrons, he changeth dead bodies from place to place, ties into that freemason cult.

    39. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 5:33 pm

      Freemasons can not sprak out.

      7 th level at the mason lodbe

    40. airgame12 on December 1st, 2006 5:34 pm

      Tim Miller of Texs Equisearch knows that she is out in the water about three hundred feet down. He needs the funding to do the deep water exploration. What we need to do is find out how to get that money so he can go get her and bring her home. Then the whole house of cards comes crumbling down!

    41. parascope on December 1st, 2006 5:45 pm

      Natalee’s Key;
      Is across the sea;
      In the dirty hands of Arch-Royalty.

      Follow decendants of Templars who;
      Will convince you at last;
      That Shango was true.

    42. joe bear on December 1st, 2006 5:45 pm

      Well,I hope the guards are released.I don’t the others will be.They were not released before,so why now.”The Ground crieth from the blood soaked and demands its JUSTICE.”It is never to late to boycot.

    43. Robert on December 1st, 2006 5:49 pm

      To 3 JusticeforNatalee

      Here is the first part of PRdVries at Jensen:

      - First couple of minutes is chitchat; then there’s a small videoportrait of PRdVries; next he says he’s been following this case from the start; next a video-introduction to the case.
      PRdVries: I originaly was neutral but now I’ve been on Aruba and have spoken to many people involved I’m sure Joran is the main suspect and has lied evidently on several points. And an innocent person doesn’t have to lie.
      Jensen: there were some 22 lies…?!
      PRdVries: There are two crucial lies: the first: he dropped Nathalee of at the HI-hotel – which was a clever worked out lie with his friends. The second crucial lie is that he stated that after he’d left Nathalee on the beach he was picked up by Deepak with his car which Deepak denied and which was confirmed by sms-messages/mobilephone-location-technique. So Joran lied about the way he got home as well and again… you don’t have to lie when your’e innocent.
      Jensen: Yes Jordan had sent an smsmessage to Deepak when he got home… and you don’t do that when he brought you home…. But what then do you think happened.. because that is crucial… there on the beach? We know… propably she had drank.. and possibly taken drugs…?
      PRdVries: The police even doubts they were at the beach at all… They think they’ve been at Jordan’s house; that’s been stated by Joran. The story of the beach is not confirmed by the fishers there. And I’ve been there myself one night… and when there’s a couple playing and kissing on the beach you can see that.
      Jensen: When you put all the statements together you cannot find any logic thread in them. But propably they took Nathalee to Joran’s house… His parents weren’t there…
      PRdVries: His father was…
      Jensen: But he has a dubious story… But anyway… One theory is that Nathalee died at the house of Joran..?
      PRdVries: Yes, that’s one of the scenario’s the police think could have happened.
      Jensen: But what do you think, now you’ve been there…?
      PRdVries: Well this theory could be right but I agree with the police this is a strange story. Another thing is that his shoes have disappeared. He’s stated that they were left at the beach and he’d asked deepak to get them the next morning but as mentioned… he hadn’t been at the beach at all so that’s another lie.
      Jensen: Another strange story is… his computer was combed out by the police…. It seems that when he got home he downloaded two porno-movies…
      PRdVries: yes some people do that…
      Jensen: Yes… but one theory is that Joran had sex with Nathalee and when that has happened violently…. and she died then… It’s very strange that you afterwards you download pornomovies.
      PRdVries: Yes it’s confirmed that that happened on his computer that night….
      Jensen: Beth Holloway said the organisation of the investigation sucked (jensens word) and if that had been right the case could have been solved within 72 hours….
      PRdVries: Yes the police missed several changes to do things right: when they wanted to searche the house the door was opened by mr. Ben King, an assistent of the Procurements Gen. office.: the highest justice-office on the island and a friend of the family who wanted to support the VdSloots in these difficult times… So clearly the search of the house hadn’t been a surprise to the VdSloots. And the police had a warrant for the complete estate but a judge – Bob Wit – who was at the house as well said only Jorans room could be searched. These are things a Dutch crime-reporter is of course totaly astonnished about.
      Jensen: and had that place been searched the first 72 hours a lot had become clearer. And there has been critics on the mother…. that she has been way to fanatic… She came up with private investigators… But you can understand that don’t you… if it’s your daughter… And these crazy things happen with the investigation…
      PRdVries: yes… absolutely
      Jensen: But what do you think has happened…?
      PRdVries: it’s very difficult to speculate… Several scenario’s could have happened… The only thing I do is putting facts in the right order… But it’s clear Joran was the last one with Nathalee, he’s lied on some very crucial points and that shows you have something to hide. But what exactly happened at this point is pure speculation. But what I find very suspicious is the fact he lied about dropping her at the hotel. Because if you realy don’t know what happened to her you have to take into account that f.i. she shows up after having spent (rest will follow).

      Btw: I personaly don’t believe that the three went to Jorans house with Nathalee. The two brothers deny that i.a.c.; Joran has to tell that because in an earlier part of his statement he declared that he asked Nathalee or Nathalee asked him to go see his house or something like that. But that what supposedly happened at the house – not getting out of the car? – makes no sense. Nor the story that Nathalee suddenly wanted to see sharkes. Joran has to keep up that story cause else it’s clear that the three had something else in mind. The brothers version makes it clearer that they indeed propably put something in Nathalees drink and Nathalee fell in and out of conciousness.
      I think the brothers statement that they went straight to the carpark near the lighthouse – where Deepak “released” himself – makes more sense. I think Nathalee might have died there.

    44. parascope on December 1st, 2006 5:58 pm

      Bifron’s the Spirit of Earl and of Sim;
      But only the highest;
      Will dare conjure him.

      small, lowly minions;
      Can’t call up the beast;
      Lions are found on the seal of Grand East.

    45. nurturer on December 1st, 2006 5:59 pm

      How do you say waterboard in Dutch?

    46. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 6:15 pm

      Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
      HEADQARTERS MASON

      that door to eden remains closed

      until the house with the path

      But not of gold Mason

      is entered

      7 th level right here in Aruba

    47. parascope on December 1st, 2006 6:16 pm

      Messengers fed at the banquet hall;
      Lodge servant knew them;
      One and all.

      Mention of Bacchus and his poison wine;
      Is a Masonic oath;
      That secrecy binds.

    48. Robert on December 1st, 2006 6:21 pm

      To 45 nurturer

      What’s a waterboard; don’t know the word.

    49. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 6:22 pm

      Mary ROLLED through the Maze MASON LODGES

      There is more than one house of music

      the Lamb is a Scapegoat

    50. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 6:26 pm

      All know of the music

      beckoning lost souls

      to enter the seven levels of inferno MASONS

      who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
      MASONS

    51. dennisintn on December 1st, 2006 6:28 pm

      we have judge? wit at the house along with voking/king.
      who was the judge that inexplicably screwed up the warrant for the dna tests?
      who was the judge who was instantly available to rule that the prison interview couldn’t be shown?
      who was the judge instantly available to let the 3 of them go 2 days early in sept. when the dutch interrogators let it be known that they were about to break?
      who is the judge that stays with the vds’ when he’s on the island?
      got lots of questions about judges tonight.
      dennisintn

    52. parascope on December 1st, 2006 6:28 pm

      SHANGO:
      All know of the music
      beckoning lost souls
      to enter the seven levels of inferno
      who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
      Enter the Maze.

      SONG (From Cole’s “Antient Constitutions”, 1731)
      I
      As I at Wheeler’s Lodge one Night
      Kept Bacchus company;
      For Bacchus is a Mason bright,
      And of all Lodges free- free- free..
      II
      Said I, great Bacchus is adry,
      Pray give the God some Wine;
      Jove in a Fury did reply,
      October’s as divine- divine- divine.
      III
      It makes us Masons more compleat,
      Adds to our Fancy Wings,
      Makes us as happy and as great
      As mighty Lords and Kings- Kings- Kings.

      FOLLOW THE MUSIC

    53. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 6:29 pm

      response to 32, by Richard:

      Actually Richard, the ship had not arrived on Curacao when she was found to be missing.

      “The cruise ship was near docking procedures into port in the island of Curacao, Netherlands Antilles, the Caribbean.”

      “The ship was en route to Curaà §ao, Antilles at the time Amy was last seen. The ship docked in Curaà §ao shortly after Amy was discovered missing.”

    54. parascope on December 1st, 2006 6:32 pm

      Duncan’s Masonic Ritual and Monitor: Royal Arch, or Seventh Degree
      224:1 Cole adopts the following sentiment of a brother Mason: “In the R. A. (Royal Arch) Mason’s Degree I beheld myself exalted to the top of Pisgah, …
      http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun08.htm

    55. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 6:33 pm

      Grand East HQ in the Hague, (3rd eye of God looks from afar), who have the authority and the Key to access this room where they perform rituals MASON LODGE

    56. parascope on December 1st, 2006 6:36 pm

      THE GREATER KEY OF SOLOMON More complex and powerful rituals than the Goetia … Usually for every 100 Masons that recieve this book only about 10 will read …
      excommunicate.net/apotheosis.html

    57. parascope on December 1st, 2006 6:38 pm

      SHANGO:
      A new key must be found to open unknown doors.
      The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.
      All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!

      Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.

    58. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 6:40 pm

      Answer for Mortella.

      The baseball player Sidney Ponson had his case handled by judge Jacob Wit. This happened as far as I know before judge Smid came to the island.

      This case however is not prove of favoritism if you ask me because he was accused of assaulting an Aruban judge. Anyway, he was punished on several fronts without further damaging his career.

      And Ben Vocking did not stop the search of the house, he is not a judge (only judges can alter search warrants, they can even come to the site to review their warrants and widen and narrow their scope according to what he feels is lawfull).

      Why judge Jacob Wit decided like he did I cannot tell you but I do know one thing. He is not the kind of judge to fall into the trap of favoritism or improper conduct.

      And FYI, a judge in a case involving a minor when he was arrested, can meet anyone he feels like. And I am not even totally sure it ever happened anyway.

      And one more thing, no-one from Natalee’s family could have been party to a meeting with the judge. Until a formal charge has been made, the family of the victim is not a party to the case and have no say in the matters at hand.

    59. yoyo muffintop on December 1st, 2006 6:49 pm

      There once was an old man of Esser,
      Whose knowledge grew lesser and lesser,
      It at last grew so small
      He knew nothing at all
      And now he’s a college professor.

    60. Robert on December 1st, 2006 6:53 pm

      Here is the second part of the Jensen – PRdVries interview (more to come).

      Jensen: But what do you think has happened…?
      PRdVries: it’s very difficult to speculate… Several scenario’s could have happened… The only thing I do is putting facts in the right order… But it’s clear Joran was the last one with Nathalee, he’s lied on some very crucial points and that shows you have something to hide. But what exactly happened at this point is pure speculation. But what I find very suspicious is the fact he lied about dropping her at the hotel. Because if you realy don’t know what happened to her, you have to take into account that f.i. three hours later she shows up after having spent the rest of the night somewhere else; in that situation the story of Joran wouldn’t have fit anylonger so it’s clear he knew she wouldn’t show up again.
      Jensen: what do you think with all these lies… there must be a m.o.l high level game goin’ on… Between several groups…. Do you think so?
      PRdVries: Well actualy it’s more the opposit… All the lies prove much has been improvised and bad agreements have been made about lies.
      Jensen: It’s clear Joran knows more… But wait Peter… Beth is on the phone in a minute… And we hope for her the case will be solved soon….
      PRdVries: I think this case is well able to be solved when you put a good team on it. And there is at this moment a Dutch team bussy with this case and I think it’s a good team….

      BREAK

      Clip from PRdVries’s show about the photoshopped picture.
      PRdVries: We got this picture from someone who knew that Joran had payed for this picture to be made. Jorans email was in the cc of the email(forward?)-list. And the least you can say is that it’s not very sympathatic towards Nathalees family when you put yourself aside her now she’s missing/dead. (Comment by me: I think this picture is part of Joran’s strategie of throwing as much misinformation in the investigation as possible.)
      Jensen: That’s very bizarre…
      PRdVries: Yes indeed… And I went to Joran and asked him about it… (Small video of that; Joran: “I don’t have to talk to you… I’ve called the police…” PRdVries: I didn’t know you were on such good notice with the police…” a.s.o.)
      Jensen: What does Joran do at this moment…. He’s a student at….?
      PRdVries: Photography or something I guess…. (Much laughs.)

    61. parascope on December 1st, 2006 6:59 pm

      >How do you say waterboard in Dutch?

      tsunami

    62. buckeye on December 1st, 2006 7:21 pm

      Robert
      Thank you for posting and your thoughts. Interesting about Judge Witt.

    63. Robert on December 1st, 2006 7:22 pm

      Last part of Jensen – PRdVries-interview.

      Jensen: Joran has done some interviews hasn’t he… For US tv… And he was payed well for that I suppose?
      PRdVries: I don’t know.
      Jensen: They pay a lot for these kind of scoops over there…. But I don’t understand why he doesn’t show up in programmes like yours or mine..
      PRdVries: Well… We have a lot of questions put to his father in a letter… Five sides… No response what so ever.
      Jensen: Yes.., about his father… You don’t trust him either do you…
      PRdVries: Well… He’s not willing to get in a conversation with us… We have a couple of very concrete questions for him but he’s not willing to answer. I think that’s awkward. And if you take into account the whole situation with the search of the house… The contacts he has…

      Jensen: Well… Beth Holloway was in our show recently… (Clip of Beth & Beth at the telephone).
      Jensen: So it IS possible… to solve relatively old cases like this…
      PRdVries: Yes we’ve done so with a couple of cases in the Netherlands. (Names some.)
      Jensen: And in this paricular case…
      PRdVries: Well… It can be done but sometimes you need a little luck as well… But you have to try first… Than luck often shows it’s face most of the time itselfs… If I see what we have found out with the two of us on Aruba… When you go there with a good team…. There are a lot of lies to be cleared…
      Jensen: Anyway… We’ll keep following you (a.s.o.)

    64. Robert on December 1st, 2006 7:27 pm

      Peter R de Vries at Jensen (Holland) transscripts in 43, 60 and 62.

    65. buckeye on December 1st, 2006 7:31 pm

      61 parascope
      What does that mean?? Sorry, I don’t understand.

    66. buckeye on December 1st, 2006 7:52 pm

      Thanks again Robert. What does a.s.o. mean? TIA

    67. Sam on December 1st, 2006 8:08 pm

      Parascope, I read your post with great interest just as I read Shango’s.You speak in riddles as did Shango. Sadly Shango’s post made more sense to me.

      How about telling us in plain English what you are really saying?

    68. buckeye on December 1st, 2006 8:09 pm

      Never mind…think I have it….and so on…

    69. hammer on December 1st, 2006 8:10 pm

      IT’S GETTIN’ HOT IN HERE…

      Hey Ramm!

      How do you KNOW that Vocking was enforcing a DULY ISSUED JUDICIAL ORDER?

      How do you know that?

      .

    70. Mortella on December 1st, 2006 8:24 pm

      Rammstein, Thank you for your responses. That is pretty much what I thought. I read in several sources that the Sloots met with the judge before he released Joran so I am pretty sure it is true. Someone from the office of the prosecution should have been present. I don’t care if it is “legal” for him to be having these secret meetings, it is still morally and ethically WRONG to do so. Just the meeting in and of itself is favoritism.

      And playing on Joran’s minor status as you do is laughable considering his lifestyle. Perhaps the Dutch need to review the practice in this country of trying some as adults when the nature of their crime calls for it.

      Oh, that’s right! No crime has been committed here, has it, because ALE, Janssen in collusion with the judges refused to collect any evidence of one. That PROVES no crime happened, because they flatly refused to conduct anything even close to a decent investigation? What was I thinking. No evidence, no crime and then make darn sure none is collected, simple plan.

      Still awaiting your definition of a Breazah Slut. Last time you only said the Dutch didn’t call Natalee that MUCH in their newspaper chats, etc. but I saw it constantly when this first happened.

      So a judge can agree to a search warrant and then sneak out to where it is being conducted and restrict it on site? That makes his first ruling a big fat lie. And especially if that is his intent to pretend to grant one then later take it back as was done in this case. This is one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen sanctioned by rule of law. If the coward doesn’t have the guts to outright refuse the search warrant, he shouldn’t be allowed to grant it publicly and pretend only that he has granted it then sneak around and at the actual scene restrict it like this. But he did.

      Please don’t expect me to respect anyone who behaves in this manner let alone those donning the robes of judges.

    71. joe bear on December 1st, 2006 8:25 pm

      I think an arrest and trial would a great Christmas presant.I have given every spare penny to tes to help.I will continue to do,after this is solved.I beleive in what Tim does.

    72. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 8:37 pm

      Masons

      I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same, whether he be right or wrong.

    73. blackbelt on December 1st, 2006 8:37 pm

      To #67 – Sam, I’d say the news of the day on most boards is some 8ball Aruba masons are involved in her disappearance – and that’s what those codetalkers were trying to tell us, except I don’t know about you but I don’t speak MASONIC!

    74. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 8:38 pm

      #69

      Ben Vocking was there as a personal friend to the van der Sloot’s. On a personal title, not as an official but as a friend (or so I have read).

      Vocking was not enforcing anything there. Normally the DA is enforcing the warrant, so in this case that would have been Janssen or a assistant DA.

    75. nychic on December 1st, 2006 8:47 pm

      *FYI*
      Discussion of Natalee’s Case Just Now
      On FOX Between Bill O’Reilly & Geraldo – Outstanding !!

    76. mishy on December 1st, 2006 9:13 pm

      NYChic, what are they saying? TIA!

    77. molly on December 1st, 2006 9:26 pm

      #72 AlanK: We went to see the Benjamin Franklin exhibit here in Houston last weekend. We were surprised to read that Benjamin Franklin joined the Masons so that he could have more contacts and so that he could have the Masonic support for his causes. It is as you said, once you belong, they will do almost anything for you.

      molly (in Houston)

    78. nychic on December 1st, 2006 9:39 pm

      Let’s Just Say:
      “O’Reilly Get’s It”

      He and Geraldo Know Exactly What Went On In Aruba
      They Discussed P.DeVries, the meeting w/Janssen & A.Carlo,
      The botched up search warrant of the Sloot house and
      the obvious fact that Aruba NEVER intended to solve
      this case right from the beginning -

      O’Reilly Stressed That He Will NEVER EVER Go To Aruba
      Unless He Is Forced To On Business !

      They wondered if they should go down there personally
      and conduct their own investigation !

    79. Dave on December 1st, 2006 9:43 pm

      OK Rammstein. (eyes rolling)

      J4N

    80. mishy on December 1st, 2006 9:45 pm

      well, maybe they should! Geraldo at least :-)

      Thanks for the recap!

    81. NYSusan on December 1st, 2006 9:52 pm

      Allan!

      How are you?
      Are you saying the answers are within the Mason’s community?

    82. Kat_Gram on December 1st, 2006 10:10 pm

      Think some people need to take some meds and quit reading the DaVinci Code. Masons ? Silly Posters .

    83. mayan_moons on December 1st, 2006 10:13 pm

      HA yeah to play on that Joran was a minor at this or any point in time is laughable.

    84. mayan_moons on December 1st, 2006 10:20 pm

      Wow nychic!

      Thanks for the heads up! I’ll catch it on the next view
      and echo in an email to Bill saying please do it Bill!

    85. mayan_moons on December 1st, 2006 10:33 pm

      Props for posting the Peter/Jensen dialog!
      Finally impartial Dutch investiagting and commenting & pointing out the farce these clowns on aruba are!

    86. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 10:35 pm

      Breezah-slut?

      Well, Breezer is a alcoholic mix-drink from a famous bermudan company and slut is a woman with loose morals, that would make a breezah-slut someone that drinks too much and has sex when drunk (not my personal opinion, just the explanation what it means).

      1. it is not illegal or immoral to meet with the parents of a suspect. A judge must way all the information he gets and as he cannot have these kinds of things in open court, he does it in chambers (not secret, usually supervised by the court clerk, etc. etc.).

      2. under the age of 18 is under the age of 18. It does not mean that when being tried they may be charged as an adult but in this preliminary part of an investigation they will start working from the premise that he is a minor.

      3. there may have been a crime committed but that is for a court to decide, after a DA and the police have conducted their investigations and are ready to go to trial. Until then it is innocent until proven otherwise.

      4. Janssen colluded? She asked for a full search warrant but probably couldn’t make the case for it when the judge saw the house/apartment. I feel a full search should have been conducted. I am sure nothing would have been found in the main house but for arguments sake (like this discussion could have been prevented then). But then again, why trust the dutch criminalists, they then too would have been accused of lying etc. and this discussion would still be going on and on and on and on and on.

      5. it is the police that has been the problem since day one. A chief of detectives that should have taken himself of the case due to the personal friendship with the suspects father and an poorly trained, poorly motivated and arrogant police-force.

      6. I am sure that the Honorable Jacob Wit made this decision correctly and I trust his judgement as I do not have the facts and the documents he had when making his decision.

      7. Unlike the US legal system we have got a legal position called “Judge Commissioner/Investigation Judge”. According to dutch law, his function is as follows:

      (translation)
      The Judge Commissioner is a judge, that has been assigned by the president of the court, to, during a police-investigation, take the decisions in matters over which the district attorney cannot decide. Matters like, wire-taps, bounding people over for questioning and searching houses. For this last function, it is in principle mandatory that the Judge Commissioner and his court clerk are present during any and all house searches in order to be in charge of that house search. On top of that, the Judge Commissioner has to decide, while he is on the scene of the search, what may and may not be impounded by the police, and it is the judge commissioner who is allowed to take measures to keep the search orderly.

      (Original dutch)
      De rechter-commissaris (in strafzaken) is een rechter die aangewezen is door de president van de rechtbank om tijdens het opsporingsonderzoek, dat door de politie plaats vindt, beslissingen te nemen over zaken waarvoor de Officier van Justitie geen bevoegdheden heeft. Denk hierbij bijvoorbeeld aan het aftappen van telefoonlijnen, het inbewaringstellen van verdachten, en het doorzoeken van woningen. Voor dit laatste is in beginsel vereist dat de rechter-commissaris samen met zijn griffier aanwezig is bij deze doorzoekingen, om daar feitelijk leiding aan te geven. Verder moet de rechter-commissaris daar ter plaatse beslissen wat er wel en niet in beslag mag worden genomen, en is de rechter-commissaris gemachtigd tot het treffen van ordemaatregelen.

      So yes, a judge commissioner is present during the search and he decides what is searched and if the police is allowed to take all that it wants to take.

    87. mayan_moons on December 1st, 2006 10:43 pm

      Yeah i remember Jossy telling Americans on tv that an impartial judge was coming to Aruba from Curacao. He forgot to mention the judge Smid knows The Sloots, so well in fact that Smid stays in the Sloths home whilst pondering how he’s going to rule.

    88. blackbelt on December 1st, 2006 10:49 pm

      KNOCK KNOCK
      Who’s there?
      THE KEY
      The Key who?
      THEY KEY TO THE DOOR BEHIND WHICH OUR MARY LIES.

      BETTER RUN FAST YE FETID ROBED ONES
      WE NOW KNOW EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE
      FOR WE TOO HAVE OUR OWN VERSION
      OF AN “ALL SEEING EYE”

      LET THE DOTS ON THE DISHES BEGIN!
      YUR OFF – WATCH THOSE CRACKS IN THE PALACE(AHEM TEMPLE) FLOORS!

    89. Rammstein on December 1st, 2006 10:49 pm

      got any shred of proof there Mayan_moons? No, there is no prove of that because that did not happen. Dutch judges are very careful to even give of the image that something improper could take place.

      Judge Smid did not stay at the van der Sloots.

    90. hammer on December 1st, 2006 11:19 pm

      THE KALPOE’S ARE CRIMINALS, RAMMSTEIN

      You know this. And so do I.

      Each of the Kalpoe brothers, Satish and deepak, submitted and ratified INTENTIONALLY FALSE TESTIMONY as witnesses in their “witness statements” — statements submitted and signature verified under advice of competent legal counsel.

      The Holiday Inn “drop off” story was intentionally false. And this constitutes the felony crime of PERJURY. A capital offense for which each of the kalpoe brothers are individually culpable, and quite obviously guilty.

      Further, each of the kalpoe brothers individually, in conjunction with their lead co-conspirator, Joran van der Sloot, based on the witness and suspect statements submitted by each, ratified, and duly signed under advice of competent counsel have quite obviously committed the felony crime of CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT PERJURY.

      All three are therefore liable and exposed to further felony crime charges: OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE and CONTEMPT OF COURT.

      Adding weight to the feloniuous nature of their INTENTIONALLY FALSE WITNESS statements, the kalpoe’s and joran van der sloot stood mute while two men were falsely arrested, based in part on their false testimony.

      Rammstein, while I applaud your conviction and dedication to determining facts in this case, it is quite impossible to deny that related crimes which are chargeable and open for prosecution were committed during the early part of this investigation as detailed above.

      How do you argue that the kalpoe’s should not be arrested, detained and prosecuted for PERJURY and CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT PERJURY?

      They should be arrested on these “lesser” charges, held and interrogated in the “mysterious disappearance” of Natalee Holloway.

      .

    91. dennisintn on December 1st, 2006 11:27 pm

      i believe the lesson learned here tonight from ram is to not be a victim on aruba. do whatever the hell you want to do to anybody else, particularly a tourist, and you’re home free. victims (especially female ones) have no rights, and mean nothing to the legal community. we have natalee and the l6 yr. old school girl gangraped at her school this summer for all the evidence we need to back up that conclusion.
      dennisintn

    92. blackbelt on December 1st, 2006 11:41 pm

      To #90 —

      She was seen hanging out the window of the Kalpoe car. Woo Hoo. Woo Hoo Aruba.

      Then poof – she was never seen again, and vanished into thin air. That packag from the Hague Den lodge better come soon! And better be delivered by a robed one.

      Hey, is it me or is it FREEZING in HERE. We will find her!

      Woo Hoo, Woo Hoo Aruba. Give it up already!

    93. blackbelt on December 1st, 2006 11:44 pm

      #90 – To your last paragraph, I agree, they should be arrested on those “lesser KEYS”….for only the Hague can use those GREATER KEYS of freedom.

      Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. But she will find a way out, I know it!

    94. Allan K on December 1st, 2006 11:46 pm

      To Kat_Gram

      How many reliable clues have you came up with. I have found missing people before, have you. It is clear Shango and Simian were in the know as of freemason history, Solomons keys, Bifrons along with the cults. Nobody seems to want to look at it though. I would never say Joran wasn’t guilty, but think about it. The body has not been found. You also have the 7 th level in Aruba. Already mentioned a few other things but people are so focused on other ideas they don’t even want to think about it. Except you with the meds. If you were to read this it is a plausible idea. Instead of trying to ridicule people lets stick to the focus of justice for Natalee. Yes I am saying it could be mason involvement and hiding the body. Shango called him a Bifron one that moves bodys around.

    95. driving miss daisy on December 2nd, 2006 2:54 am

      Lesson learned from Ramm, keep the hell away from aruba. They will kill you for the gold in your teeth and then try to sue your survivors because they were not platinum.

    96. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 3:27 am

      Greta Before & After Pics -

      http://tinyurl.com/yXrbzv

      Justice 4 Natalee Holloway!

    97. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 3:39 am

      Are they getting ready to play ‘THE SPORTER CARD?’

      http://tinyurl.com/yl8uyr

      -J4N

    98. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 5:13 am

      I know it sounds a little harsh,
      but after what was done to Natalee,
      quite frankly IDGAF.

      I hope Paulus, Joran, Deepak, and Satish are taken out
      with the garbage.

      In short, three times four is twelve.

    99. yellowbelt on December 2nd, 2006 5:22 am

      There once was an old man of Esser,
      Whose knowledge grew lesser and lesser,
      It at last grew so small
      He knew nothing at all
      And now he’s a college professor.

      Comment by yoyo muffintop | December 1, 2006, 6:49 pm

      You must mean that guy in the den;
      Everyone thought he was Ben;
      But those lesser keys;
      Have no power to appease;
      Me thinks you are speaking of Glenn.

    100. just moma on December 2nd, 2006 5:46 am

      Things Masons believe in are character and a Higher Power=God. To do that you have to be responsible and accountable to your own heart/soul first. I have known and lived with Masons for decades. My mom was Eastern Star. Our Country was founded by some who believed but took God and Country first. They are not sheep. You decieve your self’s soul and can’t have character if you follow a flock whether in church, or where ever without thinking through the cause and affect.

      Helping a friend is one thing; covering up for murder is another.

      I would bet my next paycheck that Dutch elitism and bonds for money on that island are much stronger that any Fraternal ties could ever be.

    101. just moma on December 2nd, 2006 5:59 am

      Allan K, Parasol and others who think the Masonic ties are related to Natalee’s death and that Shango has Masonic ties::::::

      I am not a Mason; but with some learning in Aruban History, the language, the music, myths, a few cultural songs thrown in, plus living on that Island, knowing its MO, the casino, tourist and pimp’s culture, Dutch elitism, European socialists’ thought and what I now know about all that has gone on since Natalee was there… It wouldn’t be that hard to be Shango and never know a darn thing about Masons or the Elks or the Lions or the zoo or the Catholic Church there!

      Any of us, who have followed this from day one and were part of the Code Talker Thread could write 95% of the background ref. found in Shango with what we know now and never step forward into a lodge or church or where ever.

    102. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 7:30 am

      HOLLAND LOVE PERSONALS:

      http://tinyurl.com/yduuug

      Justice 4 Natalee!

    103. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 7:50 am

      #29

      Nothing IN THE HOUSE. Mary is encased in cement
      in the backyard.

      The VAN DER SLOOTS are opportunistic, heartless,
      slash throat, carnivores
      in need of maximum
      termination.
      IMHO

      Keep your eyes on the Van der Sloots backyard,
      ladies and gentlemen.

      Don’t take your eyes
      off of it for a second!

      Hey Paulus… can we see your garden
      that you are so proud of?

      -J4N

    104. Skyboxx on December 2nd, 2006 8:18 am

      Why don’t we just throw the Boy Scouts and Girl Scounts of America under the bus too? Afterall they are a close group of people. Maybe the PTA was involved too?

      Stop with the Masons, Elks, Lions and all that other ‘secret society” crap talk.

      Natalee Holloway LAST seen with three suspects who LIED about who they dropped her off with and where. It was a detailed lied about TWO, count them TWO BLACK security guards. They made up a DETAILED lie to distance themselves with NH. When that fell apart Daddy and his corrupt connections went into overdrive.

      Karin, Anita, Vanderstattetn, Obuder, Dompig, and some other rich elitist are all in on this. Get one to crack and the walls come tumbling down. Personally I would put that nervous Wever kid back under the light. After he wets his pants and spills his guts, the rest can be handcuffed and shackled and brought to justice.

      The kids LIED to begin the cover up. The parents took it to another level. Call it the Aruban Wall of silence.

      JUSTICE for Natalee.

    105. Richard on December 2nd, 2006 8:48 am

      Rammstein (53) … This is not the main purpose of this thread, and no offense, but you are DEAD WRONG in what you say about Amy Bradley.

      The ship was docked at the Curacao port at the time she vanished. The cruise ship company gave false information to the FBI, saying that it was still out at sea, but it was not. I know this directly from the family, with whom I have been working for five years.

      And I think that they are in a position to know where the ship was at the time … they were on it. You evidently are accepting the cover-up that the company presented.

    106. Dave on December 2nd, 2006 8:49 am

      Rammmstein, you live in your own little fantasy world. Please give us a break.

      J4N

    107. Richard on December 2nd, 2006 8:52 am

      To repeat: Joran van der Scum and the two Kalpoes are the people last seen with Natalee. To declare that they are no longer suspects, simply because of the passage of time, would state to me as clearly as can be that Aruba is determined to make this case fade away.

      In which case, those of us who support the family will, I hope, do all that we can both to keep the case in the public eye and to levy maximum economic damage on Aruba.

    108. Richard on December 2nd, 2006 8:59 am

      And let’s remember … no matter what Peter deVries may know, or opine, or surmise, he is not in a position to take any action other than to harangue and embarrass the Aruba government. The media can only bring to light abuses in justice; they cannot, under their own power, change them.

      So let’s be determined to make all the efforts we can to ensure that (a) any new information gets attention, and (b) our voices are raised to demand justice for Natalee.

      And, in a very different way, justice for the person or persons who caused harm to her in any way or manner.

    109. Pearl on December 2nd, 2006 9:16 am

      Hammer, Mortella ( #69 and 70 )…the clarity with which you both write rings like a clammoring bell, a LIBERTY BELL, a bell clammoring for justice!

      Yes, Mortella…how on earth does one justify a JUDGE sneaking off ( and I do mean SNEAKING OFF) to the HOME of a murder SUSEPCT, to then take actions to NULL an official court action calling for a FULL HOUSE SEARCH.

      If judges going into homes are so common place, then which judge was acting on behalf of Mickey John and Abraham Jones?

      In fact, why the secrecy concerning the presence of a JUDGE, acting to RESTRICT and DENY the COLLECTION OF EVIDENCE? If this was such a common place action, why wasn’t it reported to the press that this particular judge was right there at the house, just in time for the ALE to arrive so that he could PREVENT the collection of evidence?

      In fact, why were FILES MISSING from JUDGES FILES?
      FILES MISSING, which became the basis for arguements to nullify the DNA taken from JORAN and DEEPAK?

      Why was Commissioner Van der Straaten telling the PRESS that Natalee could have entered the hotel lobby “another way” when the Commissioner ALREADY KNEW – AS HE WAS SAYING THIS TO THE PRESS, that Joran, Deepak and Satish had all LIED about dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn Hotel LOBBY ENTRANCE? Why would you tell the press that the VICTIM “could have entered another way” – when YOU KNOW, she never even got back to the hotel?

      Is it true that the Judge who was at the SLOOTS when the “FULL HOUSE PROPERTY SEARCH” was supposed to ensue, answered the door in his bathing suit or did he bother to get dressed in his ROBES?

      Was THIS the same judge, who then denied Janssen from asking a SIMPLE QUESTION TO THE GARDENER:

      Are you able to identify the men you saw in the car on May 30th in the early hours of the morning? (roughly recalling her exact words)…

      …to which the HEARING JUDGE REPLIED THAT THE ASKING OF THIS QUESTION WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED, AFTER DEFENSE ATTY’S HAD ALSO PROTESTED.

      A judge preventing the PROSECUTOR from asking a SIMPLE QUESTION to VERIFY FROM AN EYE WITNESS INVOVLED AS POTENTIAL WITNESS IN THE MURDER INVESTIGATION OF AN AMERICAN CHILD – ..AND THIS QUESTION COULD NOT BE ASKED OF AN EYE WITNESS IN A MURDER INVESTIGATION?

      Yes Mortella and Hammer: EVIDENCE WAS PREVENTED FROM BEING ESTABLISHED AND COLLECTED, WHILE THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS COLLECTED WAS THEN TOSSED AND THROWN OUT…BECOMING THINGS LIKE:

      OLD BELTS

      FISHERMAN’S NET

      CHOCOLATE

      DONKEY BONES ON THE BEACH WITH FLESH CLINGING TO THEM

      EYE WITNESSES WHO WITNESS SEEING JORAN, DEEPAK AND SATISH AND CATCH THEM THEREFORE IN THEIR LIES, …WITNESSES WHO THEN SUDDENLY ARE DISCREDITED AS WITNESSES WHILE DRUG DEALING LIARS ARE RECORDED AS CREDIBLE WITNESSES AGAINST THE INNOCENT VICTIM, FAILING TO MENTION THAT THE DRUG DEALING LIAR IS THE POLICE CHIEF’S BROTHER-IN-LAW…(another little detail that had remained HIDDEN when it first came out).

      CARS THAT GET IMPOUNDED TEN DAYS AFTER POLIS ALREADY KNOW THAT THE CAR THAT TOOK THE VICTIM AWAY FOREVER -WAS BEING IMPLICATED IN A POSSIBLE FELONIOUS CRIME SINCE POLIS KNEW BY DAY ONE THAT THE CAR AND THE MEN CONTROLLING IT ALL LIED ABOUT “DROPPING HER OFF AT THE HOLIDAY INN LOBBY ENTRANCE ” … AND “SEEING HER IN THE LOBBY WITH A BLACK SECURITY GUARD” (ANOTHER LIE THEY ALL INVENTED)…BUT, AFTERALL, THIS IS HOW “TACTICAL” IS DONE IN ARUBA BY PROSECUTORS WHO HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE MURDER SUSPECTS FAMILY.

      JUDGES WHO PROVIDE FOR FULL HOUSE SEARCHES, ONLY TO HAVE A JUDGE WAITING AT THE HOME OF PAULUS – TO DENY FULL ACCESS AND FULL INVESTIGATION, TO DENY THE COLLECTION OF EVIDENCE.
      Funny how the INNOCENT BLACK MAN NEVER GOT THAT DEAL.

      JUDGES WHO RULE THE SUSPECTS HELD, ONLY TO RUN LIKE COWARDS OFF THE ISLAND, WHERE THEY THEN FAX A REVERSAL OF THEIR DECISION!!!!

    110. Achilles on December 2nd, 2006 9:31 am

      Is the painting of the lions hanging in one of the mason temples?

    111. Waterboy on December 2nd, 2006 9:35 am

      You can talk about conspiracies all you want, but it boils down to this. Dutch covering for one of their own. Joran and his two Indian buddies (and possible, no make that probable others, possible even Paulus), raped, and killed Natalee. Van Der Straaten started covering up evidence from day one. Jacobs helped. They destroyed physical evidence, hid and altered documents and confessions. They threatened and deported witnesses, possible even worse. The judge that was called in was a joke. He is a friend and confidant of Paulus. Somehow, they got to JANNSEN, and this seems to have happen from about June 11, o5 on. From that point, her soul was theirs.

      The only reliable evidence that remains is the evidence that Dave Holloway, Beth and Jug Twitty (and their friends and family) compiled. I’ll include Viet Vet, Murph, Art Woods, and Tim Miller. There are also some U.S. spooks that most definitely compiled evidence, but may not be able to present it. They may disclose it secretly at some point. They may be waiting for a point in time when our FBI can investigate, to keep more evidence from being lost and covered.

      At this point, I’m afraid that the judge may rule that Joran and the others are no longer suspects. This would fall in line with everything else that has occurred in this investigation, and it would further insulate the perps from prosecution, and require additional steps and expense by the prosecutor to bring them to trial.

      Remember above all things, that there is a diabolical mind in the form of Paulus VAN DER SLOOT working non stop on this case, and it is not to clear it up, it is to cover it up. When you have that kind of mind working non-stop, there is no telling what will happen. Why doesn’t his coconscious get to him? Answer—he has spent his entire life suppressing and insulating his conscious. It has been so deeply buried that it would take a cochlear implant for him to hear it.

    112. Waterboy on December 2nd, 2006 10:54 am

      A TALE OF TWO FATHERS.

      “I’ll do anything to protect my son” One father told another. Dave Holloway wondered, protect from what? Protection from being accused of a crime he did not commit, or protection from a crime he did commit.

      Dave Holloway had been at the landfill all day, searching for his daughter. He heard that Paulus was going to be at the police station that day, and he wanted to talk with him. It took a change of clothes and much scrubbing to get the smell of the landfill off his body, and never out of his mind. Paulus had been doing some “scrubbing” and cleaning that day too.
      Earlier in the day, as Dave searched the landfill for the remains of his daughter, he thought how extremely blessed he had been to be the father of such a kind and caring soul as Natalee.

      That same morning, as Paulus shredded still another document, he wondered where he had gone wrong with his son. Didn’t he give him everything he wanted—his own apartment, money, completed say so of his own life, pornography for his i-pod. He thought of all the quality time he had spent with his son gambling and drinking and rating the behinds of all the female tourist.

      Dave thinks, ” Maybe I can find Natalee and take her home. Maybe I can find her alive and unharmed, please God make that happen.”

      Paulus thinks, “This can be changed. I can make it all right. It will be okay. Morally Joran is guilty, but legally he is innocent, and that’s all that counts. It is my duty to protect him, I’m his father..”

      One father knows, one Father doesn’t. One Father prays, one father lies. One Father hopes, one father hopes not. One Father is known as Daddy (Abba), one father never did and never will deserve that title. One Father loves, one father loves himself. One Father hears a voice saying this is right, this is wrong; one father hears no voice. One Father raised a beautiful daughter; one father raised a demonic monster. One Father will be okay, in the end with the help of God, friends and family. One father will never be okay. He will lead a life of hell on earth, and a real hell when he leaves this world.

    113. yellowbelt on December 2nd, 2006 11:06 am

      OLD BELTS

      FISHERMAN’S NET

      CHOCOLATE

      DONKEY BONES ON THE BEACH WITH FLESH CLINGING TO THEM…

      And DOG’S BLOOD HOLLANDAISE
      layered atop a mattress

    114. Dave on December 2nd, 2006 11:11 am

      One thing for sure we do have the satisfaction of knowing the Van Der Sloots and all those evil demonic judges and talking heads involved in the crime committed agaiast Natalee and her family will burn in hell for eternity.

      J4N

    115. Quinne on December 2nd, 2006 11:15 am

      I really don’t care for all the riddles, poems and conspiracy theories and hidden things in pictures BUT the post #112 “The Tale of Two Fathers” is about as close as it gets…. Justice for Natalee!

    116. Kat_Gram on December 2nd, 2006 11:25 am

      The origin of Freemasons is England.
      Does Aruba even have a Mason temple ?
      I also never noticed any man in this case, PVDS, or any of them wearing any Mason rings or lapel pins. In fact, never saw any Mason symolism in anything, any interviews any pictures. I wasn’t looking for it, but I WOULD have noticed.
      I have been looking at Mason history recently as part of something else.

    117. Meee on December 2nd, 2006 11:41 am

      Does anyone have a transcript of last nights O’Reilly show? Geraldo and Oreilly. Either discussed or mentioned Aruba

    118. dennisintn on December 2nd, 2006 11:42 am

      #97, carpe, that’s a great shot you captured there, the sporter showing off the money he earned from his last trick.
      dennisintn

    119. Kat_Gram on December 2nd, 2006 11:50 am

      # 112 I really like that. It sums it up.
      I have always felt and things have come out about what level of protection Joran had on Aruba.
      Any grandchildren Palus and Anita have in the future
      ( they have three sons ) will always carry this doomed family hertitage.

    120. SL-Gloria on December 2nd, 2006 12:38 pm

      #106,

      Dave, Dave …

      Live and let live. Rammstein is explaining the behavioral posture of the Dutch judicial corps, as he sees it. If you don’t agree fine, but express your disagreement in a more respectful manner.

      Just think …for over a year we have been scaring Dutch and Aruban posters away, but when there is news from either of these places, we begin to beg for them to show up. When they finely do, the cycle begins again. It just doesn’t make sense.

      #116,

      And the Queen of England is the only female member.

    121. vicki on December 2nd, 2006 12:43 pm

      Oh my goodness waterboy,im still crying.. How sad,but true.How could it be when we are all born angels from God?But it is the truth and one can see how at that split in the road Dave took one way and Paulus took the low road. In the BIG picture and at the end of the road we will all meet our maker and then we shall see. This is definitly a tragic story of Good verses Evil. I believe Good will prevail.

    122. dennisintn on December 2nd, 2006 12:54 pm

      #121
      i am all for the killers of natalee and the people who have and are helping in the coverup meeting their maker. the sooner the better.
      dennisintn

    123. Robert on December 2nd, 2006 1:17 pm

      Interested for Peter R de Vries at Jensen Talkshow (Holland)? Transscripts of that show in 43, 60 and 62.

      _____________

      SM:   Thank you very much for translating the show.   I copied your translations into a thread in the forum as well.   Much appreciated!  Ã‚   (klaasend)

      http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=603

    124. Kat_Gram on December 2nd, 2006 1:25 pm

      I would like to know more from Ramm regarding Crown Witneses in their system.
      Is that a way that this could be brought to court ?
      Offer lesser charges for the Kalpoe Brothers in exchange for their truthful testimony ?

    125. mayan_moons on December 2nd, 2006 1:58 pm

      Thank You for the transcript!

      Looks like Jensen & Peter and their audience are laughing at ya Jurine.

      Jensen: What is Jurine doing at school?

      Peter: Photography or something

      (Much Laughs)

    126. mayan_moons on December 2nd, 2006 2:19 pm

      Hey Carpe!

      That before & after Greta is a side splitter mate!

    127. elisabeth on December 2nd, 2006 2:26 pm

      124 A Crownwitness is nowadays accepted,if no other course is likely to succeed. I would like to add that in my opinion the contribution from Rammstein is both honest and fair.

    128. Roy on December 2nd, 2006 2:53 pm

      Speaking of the search warrant that limited the scope of the search at the residence….Not just simply traces of DNA or evidence that Natalee had been there but this early on, Ben King, Judge Smid, and others worked much harder at securing the VDS home than Paulus ever did. Why in God’s name is Ben King there…because a friend stands accused.. B/S… I tell my kids all the time that if they are ever stupid enough to break the law, don’t call me to bail you out…for a friend being accused of kidnapping, rape, and murder, no buddy, your ass is on your own! So I can’t help it, Ben King and the judges were not looking after Paulus… “There were others there that night”!!! There had to be. And until the residence had been sanitized and some cover stories generated, they were compelled to intervene and obstruct the investigation and the search any way they could. …… If you jump forward to the rocks scene, you have a compliant Oduber who knows his next election is secured and a willingness to look the other way as Dutch elites and the police do everything in their power to change the crime scene and distort the story. You’ve seen the commercial…”Watch my left hand while I bitch slap you with my right”

    129. Robert on December 2nd, 2006 4:04 pm

      125 – Yes, you’re right. They laugh becaus before they said the things you quoted the talked about this falsefied photo (-montage) that a friend of Joran made.

      To discussions above: The Netherlands have a non-jury-court system. The judge decides if the defendend is guilty as well as deciding on the punishment. And yes, normaly the ethical standards are very high (a least that’s what they try). Politics cannot interfere with specific courtcases; the exception is – I think – when indeed there is (smaller or bigger) corruption in the judicial system as may be the case in this case in Aruba. Then the “minister van justitie” (justice secretary) can replace persons. And last: the last couple of years there have been crownwitnesses in some highprofile cases but I don’t know if that was succesfull; the Dutch judicial system is not very used to that and is still critical in the execution of that.

    130. Waterboy on December 2nd, 2006 4:06 pm

      LIARS WIL BE LIARS

      Does anyone disagree when I say that Joran is somebody who tells lies? He makes a conscious effort to deceive. If you do, speak up!

      So, since no one expressed strong disapproval or disagreement, let’s assume. Joran is a liar. How often does he lie? Does anyone have a different view or opinion that he lies more that 90% (I’m thinking closer to 100% ) of the time? Even when the truth would work, he lies.

      If we weigh the pros and cons of everything that Joran has said and make a decision on his course of action, then where does this take us? Joran said that Natalee felt a desire for him to come to C&C, so he wanted her to come to C&Cs. Joran said he did not drug Natalee, so he did give her an illegal substance that caused changes in her behavior and perception. Joran said that Natalee wanted to see the sharks and the lighthouse, so she did not. He said they did not get out of the car, so they did. He said that they did not go to his house, so they did. He said that his dad was asleep, so he was not. He said that he did not have sex with Natalee, so he did. He said he did not hurt Natalee, so he caused Natalee to experience emotional and physical pain. He said he does not know where Natalee is so he does have information firmly implanted in his mind and memory as to her whereabouts.

      If we take the lies, and study them as if they are written in code or in some form of unknown writing, decipher them so they can be read normally, the truth is revealed. We have. Joran told Natalee to come to C&C on Sunday night, because that was the best night to go. He drugged Natalee, took her semiconscious to Deepak’s car, forced unwanted sexual attentions on her, abused her and threatened to throw her in the water with the sharks. He took her to his apartment, and raped her. He killed Natalee, and disposed of her body. He did not go to his Dad and give him an account, because his dad, and others were present when it all went down.

      Joran, your lies tell the truth.

    131. Observer on December 2nd, 2006 4:11 pm

      Offcourse there were others at the sloot home that night. We know the K2 brothers are still lying there asses off!! We also know freddy was there as he stated he spent the night.. Was this a initiation event for the pimps?? Was there a white car with other pimps that followed them to the sloots?

    132. Observer on December 2nd, 2006 4:20 pm

      Ben king was at the household to make sure he returned a big favor for his good friend paulus. He even answered the door to let everyone know that this was a serious issue and that he would do everything to make sure that they only searched jorans apt. It is obvious that whatever evidence there was 2 weeks later it was in the main house and whatever area they made sure was not forensicly looked at.

      We have the picture of the furniture delivery truck at the sloot residence. What exactly was thrown away and replaced?? What the f*** did they do to natalee that night??

    133. Observer on December 2nd, 2006 4:42 pm

      I think this is a very real possibility.

      If this wasnt a Initiation party for a new member of the “pimps” than it is something very close. Who was initiated?? Possibly the quiet satish?? What would a group of pimps do for a initiation party?? Well in aruba this small gang wanted to drug a innocent tourist on her last night and take turns on her. Something bad happened and everything points to joran ending her life. It was his house and he probably felt obligated to shut natalee up.

      Natalee may have been targeted but it could have easily been any of the MB girls that night. This was not just a overdose. They had to replace furniture,cut apart the back of deepaks car and then paint over forensic evidence at the rocks.

      This explains why it had to be covered up. If it was just joran and 2 brothers I think paulus would have never been able to get his friends to keep his son out of prison. But since this involved Wever,Von Cromvoirt,Gottenboes and other rich powerfull dutch arubans it had to be covered up. I am quite sure that oduber got major pressure from these fathers of theses famalies. And they all did there part…

    134. Maggie on December 2nd, 2006 5:55 pm

      #112, Waterboy excellent post!

      #83, Kat I agree, America’s most wanted, the FBI, SM all have ways to be contacted if you have any information about Natalee, ways to protect your identity also. There is a large reward for anyone who know’s the whereabouts of Natalee. Using a weird nic, with shango stuff, your isp can be traced the same as if you used John Doe instead. In other words if you know or have information, no game playing in a foul play case, talk to authorities. It reminds me of the zodiac killer who kept leaving notes and playing mind games.

      As for some who think it is weird about downloading porn after a murder. Scott Peterson right after murdering his wife, ordered all kinds of porn on his cable/dish service. When the cops came to search, he was in the next room cancelling the channels, so the cops wouldn’t know it. The police told that in court. Seems there is always porn or sadistic stuff involved in these kinds of cases. I wouldn’t question it not being normal. People who commit these crimes may seem normal to the public at large, but inside they are far from normal.

      Hammer, you are exactly right about those charges.

      Where was Mr. King the early morning before dawn, when the guards homes were raided and they were arrested. Was he there ahead of time to direct things? When they sent out the search warrant was it changed to just their bedrooms? Where’s all that special treatment for the guards, that these 3 received? What did Jan Straten mean when he said around June 5th, he believes Natalee is dead, he’s seen the evidence and you haven’t to a Dutch reporter. Oh, I forgot, that’s when the guards were in custody. Where’s all that good solid evidence cops had against the 2 guards who were being held for murder, and kidnapping and that Deepak, Satish and Joran were witnesses on June 5th that Renfro said the cops had. Where did the good solid evidence go for kidnapping and murder?

    135. Waterboy on December 2nd, 2006 6:04 pm

      To observer,

      I’ve given it a lot of thought, that perhaps Natalee was not the direct target, but just one of the targets; and as it turns out, maybe the easiest target. They may have even tried multiple hits that night. There may have been other girls drugged, and perhaps the drugs didn’t hit them hard enough or in time to swoop them off and do what they had planned. I think the plan was to get one or more of the girls seen in the video at the casino. They may possible have taken Natalee and also others later. By others, I don’t mean American Citizens. The other girls or ladies may at first have gone along willingly. I think that possible these “others” meet the same fate as Natalee.

      If you have read the Clawson report, they saw a young girl being taken into the Lion’s Den. They estimated her age as very young, maybe as young as 14.

    136. Richard on December 2nd, 2006 6:13 pm

      KatGram (#54?), Aruba has told us many times that the Dutch legal system does not allow for plea bargaining; i.e., they can’t go to, say, one of the Kalpoes and offer him a deal in exchange for his testimony implicating others.

      Now, at least one Dutch professor of law DISAGREES and says that the Aruba legal system DOES have such a provision. As seems to be the case everywhere, including our own country, the more laws there are the more disagreements there are about which laws apply, what they all mean, etc.

      I don’t pretend to have the knowledge to answer the question. I am merely stating what I have heard.

    137. Richard on December 2nd, 2006 6:16 pm

      Waterboy, I have long thought that after members of the Pimps drugged and assaulted some of the “native” girls, their next inclination would be to try it out on the tourists. They knew where the foreign girls were vulnerable, and not expecting any bad to happen … the idea must have germinated in their heads for a long time.

      And I’m not prepared to rule out the possibility that some of them had even scummier connections who offered, or who insisted, by force if necessary, that they would take Natalee with them off the island.

      Many people seem to find that idea ludicrous … but don’t hesitate to presume that these teens would become killers or murderers at the drop of a hat.

    138. Waterboy on December 2nd, 2006 6:17 pm

      As for some who think it is weird about downloading porn after a murder. Scott Peterson right after murdering his wife, ordered all kinds of porn on his cable/dish service. When the cops came to search, he was in the next room canceling the channels, so the cops wouldn’t know it. The police told that in court. Seems there is always porn or sadistic stuff involved in these kinds of cases. I wouldn’t question it not being normal. People who commit these crimes may seem normal to the public at large, but inside they are far from normal.

      to Maggie,

      Have you considered the possibility that Joran and others may have downloaded the porn and forced Natalee to watch it? Remember the case of the undercover reporter when Joran first left for Holland? She said that he forced her to watch porn.

    139. Richard on December 2nd, 2006 6:23 pm

      Robert, many, many thanks for providing that transcript.

      One thing jumps out at me: it says categorically that the police had a warrant TO SEARCH THE ENTIRE ESTATE of Paulus van der Sloot. I presume that means the whole house, the yard, the surrounding area. Everything.

      And yet some judge who was apparently present at the time, Bob Wit, allowed only Joran’s apartment to be searched.

      Certainly the onus is on Aruba to come up with an explanation of this … and if it doesn’t care to do so, this is an important point that we should remember.

    140. Skyboxx on December 2nd, 2006 6:31 pm

      -#112 Waterboy, great post!

    141. Skyboxx on December 2nd, 2006 6:34 pm

      Maggie you are correct, they planned a frame up/cover up that came unraveled pretty quickly, (Security guard upon his release: “he say the dutch and the the dutch guy’s fater make up the story about dropping off the girl….”)

      Karin VanderStraaten, Dompig, Paulus, Anita and the whole bunch are covering for the mistakes of their children and the Kalpoes,

      Keep the heat on and someone will tell what happned….Boycott, write, post and keep us the vigil

      Justice for Natalee….

    142. mayan_moons on December 2nd, 2006 6:44 pm

      Hey Robert!

      No disrespect is meant to the judiciary in general do i mean to convey. Please understand which i think you do that the Dutch on Aruba have turned their own system of law on its head. Making a mockery of justice & contradicting what they told you last week or even the day before. As they paint themselves into a corner with lies they cannot explain & truths that they won’t explain,and the games they have played, they make the Dutch look bad. We know all Dutch & Dutch Judges arn’t like that and are thankful for Mr. Jensen & Mr. deVries profiling Natalee’s case in your country. Thankful more to the Dutch (like you) that wanted to hear Natalee’s story and will stand with us & work with us and help us.

    143. Skyboxx on December 2nd, 2006 6:49 pm

      Natalee was last seen with Joran and K2, they in turn told LIES about dropping her off with TWO BLACK SECURTY guards. In other words they made up a detailed LIE to cover something?

      That’s evidence!

      Until they can prove what they did with her, since they were the last to bee seen with her alive and then LIED about dropping her off at the holiday inn, while implicating TWO INNOCENT BLACK security guards, suggests to me a COVER UP. Thus we can conclude this is inculpatory evidence……..

      Charge them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

      Your witness Karin………..

    144. mayan_moons on December 2nd, 2006 7:33 pm

      Sharon i think it was saying we scare off Dutch poster’s, i don’t feel thats a fair thing to say & no offense to you Sharon. I enjoy you’re opinions. But those who come here to taunt & play games pretending key people didn’t say what we KNOW they did or mock the victim they are dealt with harshly.
      Something anyone from anywhere who cares about people and victims will understand.

    145. Maria on December 2nd, 2006 7:34 pm

      #112 Couldn’t have said it better myself. Great post.

    146. mayan_moons on December 2nd, 2006 7:37 pm

      The Tale of Two Dads is a very good post Waterboy.

    147. Robert on December 2nd, 2006 7:37 pm

      142 m_m You are right I think. The Aruban judicial system doesn’t desirve an award here it looks to me. It clearly has something to do with the fact that this is a relatively small community and an even smaller judicial community; everybody knows one another. And when the son of one of the judges (in training) suddenly becomes a suspect….
      But still it’s a VERY bad thing if indeed corruption plays a role here. I hope everything will come out.

      Have to quit now, it’s 1.40h on this side of the globe… Have a nice evening you all.

    148. Observer on December 2nd, 2006 7:43 pm

      Come to think of it there could have been a half dozen pimps at the Van Der Sloots home that night. Hell they were so excited about snatching natalee deepak stopped at another bar to tell the other pimps. Any of the pimps could have been on juron’s computer that night.

    149. dennisintn on December 2nd, 2006 7:58 pm

      #l42, mayan, that was so true and well said.
      dennisintn

    150. dennisintn on December 2nd, 2006 8:02 pm

      #l39, the onus is on bob witt to explain that to the good people of aruba, as well as natalee’s families and friends. it’s up to the good people of aruba to force witt to make that explanation and to force the people they’ve elected and appointed to positions of responsibility and power to explain their actions in detail. that being done should put us a lot closer to being able to find natalee and produce justice for her.
      dennisintn

    151. robin on December 2nd, 2006 8:15 pm

      It is just a matter of time before the truth is out. Keep the pressure on and let the crud hit the fan! Americans will keep this case close to their hearts and justice will prevail for Nat.

    152. robin on December 2nd, 2006 8:21 pm

      Americans demand NO MORE SECRETS…
      NO MORE RIDDLES and NO MORE LIES..
      We want answers!

    153. Waterboy on December 2nd, 2006 8:48 pm

      Richard,

      I know you stick to your thoughts that maybe Natalee was take off the island and is alive or was alive, and I’ll add that it would be great. It would be even more powerful if she were held somewhere unharmed. I know this is not what you are implying, and it is only a naà ¯ve thought on my part.

      I don’t know if you remember the “psychic” or “spiritual” who said way back in Sept. Or October of 05 that Natalee was being held by a young, rich, man. (I think she said she was being held on the island.)

      I’m just going to keep such thoughts in mind, cause it gives me a sense of anticipation (I don’t care if it is viewed as a false sense of hope).

      Somewhere, someplace, at some time this very scenario has taken place. Some young girl disappeared and was found years later unharmed, so it has happen. It will happen again. Anything that can happen will happen, given enough time.

      http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/TT/rjt15.html

      In December 1864. Alice Todd was captured and carried off by the Comanches, and despite rescue attempts made by her father and neighbors, she was never found.

      This is the story that Fred Gibson’s Savage Sam is based on. In Savage Sam, however, the girl was rescued. I like Fred’s story best, and I’m sure there was a real story that ended that way.

      In real life, Alice Todd’s brother was given leave from the Civil War and searched for his sister for 10 years, following the Comanches from Mason County to Central America and all the way to Alaska.

      There are true stories of kidnapped people being rescued. You read about them all the time.

      Thanks for keeping the hope alive. I’ve read and enjoyed all your posts.

    154. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 9:21 pm

      Hey Carpe!

      That before & after Greta is a side splitter mate! :-)

      ———-

      Thanks for telling me, Mayan. I had fun putting

      it together! heh heh

    155. molly on December 2nd, 2006 9:49 pm

      Waterboy, you have outdone yourself tonight. Awesome posts.

      molly (in Houston)

    156. molly on December 2nd, 2006 9:58 pm

      I have been looking at Natalee’s pictures with her friends lately. She was the smallest girl. In spite of her school dance team activities, she seemed to be the more quiet of the girls. My point? I think she was the most vulnerable. However, with drugs, the pimps could have had any girl.

      Also Carpe, since you are seeing more that one body in some of your pics, I wonder if they weren’t the result of the night’s ‘business’ and discarded together.

      I agree with other posters that there were probably a lot of pimps in on this ‘party’ resulting in the need for several dads to protect their kids. Because of all the pimps who might have been present, it stands to reason that there were also more girls there.

      molly (in Houston)

    157. super dave on December 2nd, 2006 10:33 pm

      rammstein: i before e except after c. i didn’t say that the evidence (if found) would be from junior. it could be from any of the several involved. it may not even be in the house. we don’t know what may be inside or out! there’s always a chance. and with sr. and jr. sloot saying they would tell what happened whey they get ready to talk. dead giveaway that they are somehow involved.
      there are no terms here. either admit it or tell the truth. i some how think the truth is not to be found in a family of liars. nothing but lies from these people since the very first hour of this crime. i say the sloot property will reveal evidence overlooked by the dim witted ale .

    158. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 10:40 pm

      One of their biggest FOE PAWS :-)

      Was in their hurry to lie about
      the security guards…

      …rather than just saying he was a
      black man. In their panic to lie
      (because they are sniveling,
      lying, peon cowards)

      they added that the SG’s
      were also dressed all
      in black, and talking into a
      walkie talkie.

      Now, which security
      staff in Aruba
      dresses like that?

      ———-

      I hate Joran, Paulus, Deepak,
      and Satish with a
      white hot fury…

      They are lying, sniveling,
      cowardly sacks of sh.

      ——

      If they were to
      get brutally
      assassinated,
      and dumped
      off in
      trashcans…

      I’d be
      rejoicing
      with
      each hit,

      …and I make
      no apologies
      for feeling
      that way.

      They are the KILLERS.

      They are the BIFRONS.

      They are walking DEAD MEN.

      JUSTICE 4
      NATALEE ANN
      HOLLOWAY!

    159. Carpe Noctem on December 2nd, 2006 10:49 pm

      #156 Molly (HOU)

      I think that is a strong possibility.

      ———–

      #155 Absolutely! Waterboy’s posts are always
      a good read… and today even better. WB, you
      knocked several out of the ballpark today!

      -J4N

    160. mayan_moons on December 3rd, 2006 1:41 am

      Carpe!

      In the pond area stills i see quite a few people down there.

      Another thing…..although the crematorium is a great thing to have & will most likely be used in future crimes i don’t think they used it this time.

      Here’s why. The bodies in video 24 are dismembered, and not all the bodies were dismembered at the same place. It looks like the rocks area is where most of it happened but also on the pipe near the *bag* is a very big blood smear. Also the videographer tosses a pebble in stagnant water below the pipe to draw you’re attension to it and it looks to me like 2 something(s) are floating there. I’ve tried to clear it up to no avail.

    161. Tazman on December 3rd, 2006 1:49 am

      Three blind mice
      Three blind mice
      See how they run
      See how they run

      They all ran after
      the farmer’s wife
      She cut off their tails
      with a carving knife
      Did you ever see
      Such a sight in your life
      As three blind mice?

      Three blind mice

    162. nychic on December 3rd, 2006 2:28 am

      .
      Let Us Remember:

      J2K Only Implicated “1″ Security Guard In Their HI
      Drop Off Lie -

      It Later Became “2″ Security Guards – Whose Identities
      Were Magically Unearthed By The Likes of Boeti and DJacobs -

      Why Can’t Aruba Seem To EXPLAIN HOW 1 SG BECAME 2 ?

      ——
      Another Thought:

      J2K: “They Control Us” == Posner
      Guido’s Lawyer Spong == Posner
      Paulus’ Phone Calls To Guido == Posner
      Paulus’ Multiple Bank Accounts == Posner ?
      The Gambling Money Supply At The VDS House == Posner
      Gambling Every Night By Joran/Guido/Andre == Posner

      Could The Dirty Hand Be Guido ?
      Bottom Line: Money = Power = Posner

    163. Richard on December 3rd, 2006 6:34 am

      Observer (#148), that’s what I’ve been saying all along. Think of it: the three scum had Natalee in their car, they knew that the other MB kids were still in the area … if they had malicious designs on Natalee (which can hardly be doubted), they would want to get out of there asap.

      So what did they do? They pulled up at a nearby bar, Deepak Kalpoe ran in the bar and then came out almost immediately. I’ve thought of this, and the only reason for doing this that makes sense to me is that he went in and gave a pre-arranged signal, either to other “Pimps” or to somebody else.

      It’s not legal proof, but the very name of “Pimps” that the group used is indicative of where their interests and fantasies were heading. Add to that the cumulative impact of porno videos, etc., on the male teen psyches.

      Remember, even Joran’s father took down the Web sites of his sons … both of them, as I recall … once Joran was brought in for questioning. Destruction of evidence?

      Remember also what “Pimps” do for a living … buy and sell girls and live off the proceeds of their street activity.

      Dennis Intl (150), the onus is indeed on Witt to explain that, as well as his just happening to be on the scene at that time. However, it doesn’t look like the people of Aruba are going to be demanding an explanation for that or for anything in this case. Hopefully we concerned Americans and Dutch can work together on this and help persuade our governments to take action.

      Thanks again for Robert’s posting of that transcript. Such help is immeasurably valuable, and holds out prospects that we regular citizens can indeed accomplish something.

      Waterboy (153), even if she were taken off the island alive, it doesn’t prove that she still is alive. However, because of my work with the family of Amy Bradley I’m not prepared to abandon this possibility. I don’t know if it did happen, but as I’ve said before, if Aruban officials have reason to think that it did it would explain the rationale for a sweeping cover-up.

      One known case like this, and Aruba’s tourism would be gone forever. And the corrupt little clique that runs the place would be shattered. Not all their drug dealer friends and Mafia money could protect them if that became public.

      And Molly (156), I also think it possible that girls were involved. Especially if the three scum brought Natalee to some kind of rave party or something like that.

      Enough from me.

    164. Richard on December 3rd, 2006 6:53 am

      Just one more thought, please … why do I keep bringing up the idea that Natalee may have been taken off the island?

      Basically, it’s psychological: without harping too much on it, a group that calls itself the Pimps is obviously making evident its contempt for girls and women, whom they see as items to be used and discarded. Granted, it’s only a name, and teens often practice anti-authority behavior; yet they didn’t call themselves the Aruba Hiking Association or something like that, they chose to call themselves by a name that has the overtones that it does.

      I’ve hypothesized that the Pimps, whom are suspected of having drugged and assaulted Aruban girls, apparently without any punishment or other consequence (immune little gods, they are; kings of the island, free of retribution), may have turned their thoughts to the foreign girls.

      Those tourists, some of whom resemble Hollywood goddesses that dominate the TV shows, etc. … their wealth, their power over Aruba … their apparent invulnerability, just coming to our island for a good time and going home ….

      They’re superior … but not if we Pimps get them.

      (Obviously I’m not enlisting in the ranks of the Aruban scum; I’m trying to put down here what things might have been at work in their subconscious.)

      Basically, I guess, what I’m saying is that HUMILIATION was one objective the Pimps had in mind. Clearly, that’s part and parcel of rape … some say that is the only objective that a rapist has, more so than the sex.

      Some months ago, I quoted from a police chief in a U.S. case. He said (essentially) “when the victim is unconscious, everything is different. She’s not human, in a way.”

      If the objective of the three scum, and possibly the other Pimps, was indeed humiliation (of Natalee or whatever foreign girl they got that night), then selling her into slavery, or trading her away, is an extension of this. In a way, it’s a “power trip” … controlling someone’s life … and it’s also continued degradation of that person.

      Except to them, she wasn’t quite a person, if abused while unconscious: she was less than human, as that cop said.

      This whole scenario depends on how depraved you think some of these people could have been. What kind of group dynamics were at work? Would someone, possibly Joran, want to take the “Pimps” fantasy farther and father, maybe to its ultimate conclusion, and would the others follow suit?

      Was there an additional economic motive? Was there a sense of power in handing Natalee over to someone else … “look at what we Pimps can do!”

      I don’t know. I likewise don’t know how much of this, if any of it, is what did happen. But I think that this amoral little group of overprivileged, indulged teens, if they did indeed think they were above the law, might have had a lot of casual discussions among themselves about how vulnerable tourist girls were.

      And if these discussions were abetted by porn videos, the results might have been even worse.

      Let’s hope we find out. Justice for Natalee, in any case.
      And justice to those who harmed her.

    165. nurtured on December 3rd, 2006 7:53 am

      yoyo, THE MUFFIN IS AN OILY DOVE

      Noted: Sim/Shango repeatedly mention “FEAST”
      and in conjunction with the word sacrifice
      Masons observe The Feast Of St. John on June 24th
      The sacrifice, traditionally, used to be a rooster
      What do the Elders sacrifice and feast on
      or do they just drink blood from a human skull?
      What is the “rotten” pkg from the Hague?
      A doggie bag?
      again:
      –”IN THE GROUND IS WHERE SHE CAN BE FOUND
      SECURITY HAS A SECRET PLACE WHERE NATALEE IS AT
      IN THE GROUND IS WHERE SHE CAN BE FOUND
      BREAKFEAST”
      this was posted on (SM) the evening of June 7th (all caps)
      poster nic: NATALEE

      http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:kwsAYbI4mNgJ:www.scaredmonkeys.com/%3Fp%3D1206+%22Dera+Gai%22+and+masonic&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=firefox-a

      from sm–
      I still want to know why Shango said there would be 46 sacrifices.
      Are these girls who are also stuck in the Maze?
      Comment by I hear Shango | June 30, 2005, 10:08 pm

      Subdude, I sent Greta cut&pastes of some of this stuff, myself, the other day. I was even willing to put for the Lions theory to her, since someone at the psychics forum stated thaheard “some businessmen/influential people were keeping her at a club, like the *Mason’s Club.* t he Who cares if Greta thinks I’m a taco short of a fiesta plate. No theory is too out there if it might actually help.
      Hi Ally!
      Comment by AnnaMaria | June 30, 2005, 10:28 pm

      Both Shango and gagirl mentioned the next festival, and maybe the cowboys going to the festival, talking to the Arawaks….and Simian talked of St. John….is this the event?
      JUNE 24 – DERA GAI “ST. JOHN’S DAY”
      Special festive song and bright yellow and red costumes, and traditional dances surround the annual “Dera Gai” (the burying of the rooster) festival. It is celebrated on the Feast of St. John the Baptist to celebrate and give thanks for a successful harvest. This celebration dates back to 1862. Today the rooster has been replaced by a calabas (gourd) but folk dances are still an intrinsic part of the celebrations. Festival activities are held at various community centers.
      Comment by AnnaMaria | June 30, 2005, 10:33 pm

      AnnaMaria be down to get ya’ in a taxi, honey:)
      Comment by subdude | June 30, 2005, 10:34 pm

      SACRIFICE:
      PAST GRAND MASTER ALEISTER CROWLEY
      FRATER SUPERIOR BAPHOMET XIÂ °
      CROWLEY’S DOCTRINE
      We find in the next quotes, the ‘doctrine’ of Aleister Crowley from MAGICK in Theory and Practice, by The Master Therion (Aleister Crowley):
      But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best.
      Oriental Templar Order
      There exists today a secret society that dedicates itself to carrying on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. This group is called the O.T.O.. The O.T.O. was founded earlier this century by high grade Austrian…

      Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
      The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
      I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
      The simian is not a simian, but an austr-olopithecus

      …Freemason Karl Kellner and German Freemason Theodor Reuss. The O.T.O. became a major force in the occult world when Aleister Crowley became its leader.
      Ordo Templi Orientis
      Ordo Templi Orientis-Crystal Heart Camp
      NETHERLANDS
      public – created 03/16/05
      http://ordotempliorientis.tribe.net/
      SEE PICTURE ONE
      http://ordotempliorientis.tribe.net/?current=tribephotos&set=y#tabs

    166. nurtured on December 3rd, 2006 8:06 am

      Charge them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
      Your witness Karin………..
      Comment by Skyboxx | December 2, 2006, 6:49 pm

      SACRIFICE:
      PAST GRAND MASTER ALEISTER CROWLEY
      FRATER SUPERIOR BAPHOMET XIÂ °

      CROWLEY’S DOCTRINE
      We find in the next quotes, the ‘doctrine’ of Aleister Crowley from MAGICK in Theory and Practice, by The Master Therion (Aleister Crowley):
      But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best.
      Oriental Templar Order

    167. Waterboy on December 3rd, 2006 9:25 am

      AND HE TOOK HER

      What’s wrong?” he asks. “I don’t know, I feel weak, and my hands and legs are trembling,” she replied. “I think I ought to leave.” “I can get a taxi and take you back to the Hotel, I’m ready to leave, and I’m staying there also” he responds. “No, I should go with my friends. Wow, I’m getting worse. (She doesn’t like the young man and can’t stand the idea of being alone with him.) I guess I’ve had too much to drink.” The young lady starts to fall, and he reaches out to grasp her. Don’t get the wrong idea; there is no chivalry here. His plan is working. The bartender gives him an impish wicked smile, and reaches for his cell phone.

      Thoughts and feelings begin to enter the young ladies center of consciousness. A dream crosses the threshold of her thoughts. Imagery of her Dad pop into her mind. She can hear her Dad’s voice, and she remembers all the enjoyable times. What a good father. She sees her mother’s face and hears her voice. Good and decent things come from her mom. She gains strength from her dream and returns to a state of censoriousness. She is so weak she cannot manage to stand.

      With no resistance, he takes her to the waiting car. Since it is closing time the confusion and shuffle of the crowd adds to the ease of their departure. He is ecstatic with his conquest. The young lady is starting to fade into unconsciousness.

      She sees her friends as they drive off, and tries to shout a greeting, but t her short term memory fades, and as she opens her mouth to call to her friends, she can not remember what she was going to say. She manages to shout “Aruba, wooa.” He grabs for her. In the process, he pulls and tears her blouse and exposes her breast. She starts to protest, but forgets what she was going to say. She falls back and is pulled into the car.

      The dream-like state returns, she sees the face and hears the voice of her mom, “Fight, fight, run, run.” The beautiful young girl shouts, “Stop, stop, let me out.” He hears voices too. He always hears them. They are evil sounding and commanding in nature. He likes what he hears. He will obey the voices. He always obeys.

      The drive stops the car. “Do you want out?” Everything is spinning, and the girl cannot comprehend the driver’s words. It is like a time-lapse. She cannot remember her own words. “Where, what, who are we going.” Her words make no sense. The young man replies, “She said no, drive you retard, it will be fun and easy just like the others. Just get us there.”

    168. Skyboxx on December 3rd, 2006 9:30 am

      Carpe, me thinks your post #158 suggests time to switch to decafe. I want justice too, but lets not turn into the savages that the sporter and his accomplices are.

      Decafe!

    169. airgame12 on December 3rd, 2006 10:00 am
    170. realtruth on December 3rd, 2006 11:02 am

      just like the republican party:
      http://www.chron.com:80/disp/story.mpl/front/4338586.html

      the repubs also offered no help to the holloways; thats one of the many reasons they no longer are in control of the gov’t; they let everyone down.

    171. airgame12 on December 3rd, 2006 11:53 am

      #170
      Whatever! Politics is not what we are about here!!! Try sticking to the topic, which I know is hard for democrats, but I have faith in ya.

    172. airgame12 on December 3rd, 2006 11:54 am

      So if the phone call was made to Beths phone, why is it that the phone company cant tell where it came from and who it belongs to? As for profiler’s theroy about not having drugs like ghb and x involved, I would have to disagree. From the time line that puts J2K showing up and C@C’s, and Natalee’s condition then to 30 minutes later and how her condition had began to deteroriate, would inply that she had been given something. Now you still in it, but your not sure what is going on because the drug is starting to take affect. So logically, the last person that you are with(J2K) is the person that you assume can help you because your now picking up speed into the drug haze. He leads her outside, and she is still alright enough to hold a legibal conversation with her friends as stated, and being dark and that they had all been drinking, it would be hard for someone that didnt know what they were looking for to tell that she had been drugged. So, he spins off some crap about whatever, and she follows him to quite possibly what she thinks is a taxi, because that is what 2K drives. So since I believe the whole beach thing is crap, they go to JVDS house, where she is starting to slip futher into the drug indused haze, and he is starting to take advantage of her. She though drifts in and out of this haze, with moments of knowing exactly what is going on, and knows she is in trouble. Here is where the phone call comes in. She makes a call to Beth, because when you in trouble that bad as she had never been, you call the one person that you know can protect you, and thats family. The shortness of the call indicares that J2K figured this out and got it away from her, possibly with a small stuggle because she knew by this time that she was in danger from the perps, and quite possibly fell and hit her head by the pool. This would explain the new concrete that was poured by the pool, and also the bloody mattress that just got up and walked off. So, think about this………

      Theory…….She has been drugged by JVDS but not with the intention to kill her, but as by his own admission of 20 previous times, to rape her without her knowing it. She falls and really hits her head, just not where they stated, and is bleeding badly. She is picked up and taken inside to the mattress. And from there, we have where we are today. BUT…..the flaw in J2K getting away with it is this, and there is no way to make sure that you havent missed something is that when you picked her up to take