RSSJoran Van der Sloot to Reenact the Crime of the Murder of Stephany Flores Ramirez
The Peruvian authorities are going to have Joran Van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores Ramirez in Peru and suspected killer of Natalee Holloway in Aruba, do a reenact of the crime and show how he beat Stephany to death and broke her neck.
Peru’s investigative police will lead Mr. van der Sloot to the casino where he met Stephany Flores and then to the Hotel Tac, where she was killed on May 30.
According to police sources, van der Sloot told investigating officers that he had gone out to get coffee for himself and Ms. Flores Ramirez early on May 30. When he returned, he found her using his laptop computer. He reportedly said that she was looking at information about the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba and recognized that he had been accused of murdering Ms. Holloway.
That’s when van der Sloot flew off the handle and beat Flores Ramirez to death, according to police reports of his confession.
“The girl intruded into my private life,” he told investigators, according to Peru’s La Republica newspaper. “She had no right. I grabbed her by the neck and I hit her.”
Today, he’ll walk police through the way he says he killed Flores Ramirez.
Peru authorities, do not be fooled by this skilled liar. There is no doubt that he killed Flores Ramirez, Joran admitted guilt not because he was coerced, but because he knows there is overwhelming evidence against him, including DNA. He also knows if he confesses to a lesser crime he will receive less years in prison. DO NOT FALL FOR HIS GAMES. Stick this predator in one of your fine prisonsfor the maximum amount of time allowed. Peru, you have Joran Van der Sloot dead to rights, do not get weak kneed and get all “Aruba” on us. Provide the proper JUSTICE FOR STEPHANY!
His version suggests that the murderwas not premeditated as has been speculated, because of the fact that Flores’ murder occurred on the fifth anniversary of Holloway’s disappearance. Van der Sloot has been called the “May 30 serial killer” in the Peruvian press.
His account would also rule out robbery as a motive.[editors note: Then why take her money if robbery was not the motive? The sporter just did it as an afterthought? Really. Who believes that. You kill some one supposedly accidentally and Joran is so stunned by the event that he robs Stephany of her gambling winnings. Yea, that is believable.]
These facts are crucial, because the charge of homicideor second-degree murder carries a sentence as low as 15 years. With good behavior, study and work in a Peruvian prison, van der Sloot could, hypothetically, be released within seven years.
In this scenario, he would not yet be 30 years old when released.
Premeditated murder, on the other hand, carries a 30-year sentence and conditions for parole are much narrower.
Now his mother Anita, the enabler, is saying that any confession from her“delicious sporter” was coerced. Sorry, the Peruvian LE is doing their job. Welcome to the real world Joran and Anita Vam der Sloot where Joranis not going to get away with murder. There will be no cover up like there was in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Guess what Anita, there is a body, so there was a crime.
She spoke to the family’s Dutch attorney, Bert de Rooij, who told CBS News, “He said, ‘I’m being interrogated in a very rude way’ … and he said, ‘I think they are aiming at a coerced confession.” ‘
Van der Sloot’s mother has also hired a lawyer for him in Peru, Quijano notes.
On Monday, police say, van der Sloot told them he killed Flores, 21, reportedly adding he became enraged when he caught her looking up information about the Natalee Holloway case on his laptop and questioning his involvement in the disappearance of the Alabama teen five years ago in Aruba.
Joran is being interogatedin a very rude way, good grief. Poor baby … HEY JORAN, THIS AIN’T ARUBA!!!
How exactly do you think an individual who beats a defenseless girl and breaks her neck is treated? My question is does the Peru LE use waterbaording?
Aruba, are you taking notes … you might learn some thing from the Peru law enforcement on how to get answers from a killer.
Posted June 9, 2010 by Scared Monkeys Arrest, Aruba, Crime, Facebook, Joran Van der Sloot, Murder, Natalee Holloway, Stephany Flores | 118 comments |
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“He said, ‘I’m being interrogated in a very rude way’
Rude Way – Let Dave Holloway & Senior Rameriz have at him for 5 Minutes and they could teach this Monster several things about Rude Ways!
Just who the hell does he think he is???
Paulus, Anita, Aruba his attitude is all your fault!
Joran wants everyone to think that marajuana and cocaine made him brutally murder Stephaney, so that his pre-mediative conduct will not be considered when sentencing him.
Yet, wasn’t it common practice for Joran – after inflicting his acts of torment, suffering, torture, and vicious brutality upon his victims, that he had a smoke? Exactly WHEN did Joran smoke his marijuana?
Columbia University’s Health Services:
Marijuana itself does not “stay” in your system, but the main chemical in marijuana, THC, does. It may stay in your system forever because it is stored in fatty tissues of various organs.
Despite being stored in body fat, THC is only detectable for a certain amount of time. Many drug tests, including urine tests, look for 9-carboxy-THC which is the by-product of your body metabolizing the THC in your fat.
- – -
What this means is that Joran had a smoke, sometime in the days AFTER leaving little Stephaney helpless and gasping for her last breath.
How dare anyone “intrude” in Joran’s private life? Has he forgotten that he “intruded” in the lives of at least two good, decent families?? CRUCIFY THE BASTARD.
For some reason I can’t register or get a confirmation on my old account…no worries because in five years I saved all the old stuff on another hard drive.
BUT I see a continuous Q by Misgivings and I want to address that. the small white purse. I saw it too, I also read the report ( and I could shoot myself for not saving it then…too many webpages ago and it may have been removed) that Stephany was wearing a SANITARY pad containing a small amount of blood…She was ON HER MONTHLY..more susceptible to drugging, probably tired at the onset, the purse probably contained the PAD that she may have entered his room to PUT ON or was an extra…and the purse was empty. Kotex has tampon and pad purses on their website…small discreet…and flowers.
Meaning she probably (taken along with the information about her sexual preference ) NEVER wanted to spend the night, have intercourse, or even SLEEP there PANTLESS…Ladies will back me up on this…you do not want to take off pants and sleep next to a guy when you just met him and are on the pad.
Does anybody really believe he will come out of prison with his anger issues resolved after a few years with “Johnny Wad Jose”, “Long Dong Jorge” and
King Dong Alberto”. In 7 years he will be worse than ever. Hopefully after 6 years, 11 months somebody in there will slit his throat.
RIP MORTA.
Your fried smothered and covered, bro.
…and your little squirrelly mother, too! lol
wawawawawawawawawawawawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
mommy mommy make them stop. Daddy is not here to get me out of this one. can you make em stop
wawawawawawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I promise if you get me out of this one, I;ll only kill in countries that have extradition with Aurba
wawawawawawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hey Anita
you are showing your true colors by consoning your murderer son. What did you tell his brothers. Are they just like this son.Did u raise a family of murders. You are just as bad as your scumbag son urine
#4 that’s what makes it hard for me to believe that Stephany went in the room with Joran and was running around in a tshirt and panties with him on her own will.
Peter Blanken the DA of Aruba just said on Dutch tv that it was the decision of the FBI not to arrest Joran after the money exchange on Aruba. What the reason was he didn’t say.
He’s probably been rehearsing this story since he left the hotel that early morning. Devil’s in the details they say, let’s hope they ask him lots of small details.
Had the Aurban ‘authorities’ dealt properly with this individual, the Peruvian young lady would still be alive.
This is yet another reason why the travel embargo against Aruban activities must be vigorously enforced by all of us.
Maybe when Aruba is suffering so badly from the lack of tourist dollars will those in power step up and finally ‘solve’ the Natalee Holloway case.
This is really a disgrace.
#11 Peter Blanken said Dutch detectives are traveling to Peru as we speak to question Joran and to look in his laptop. My guess is that they did indeed find something that can help solve the case on Aruba.
Accused killer Joran Van der Sloot told Peruvian police in an alleged confession that he drank an espresso and ate four biscuits in his victim’s hotel room while he contemplated how to get rid of the body, the Spanish-language newspaper La Republica reports.
On HLN, now they are saying cops may not do the re-enactment at all.. One report is they may have enough already.
My best guess is he won’t survive prison.
Apparently he contacted the Mother of Natalee and stated something like: “My Father has died and we really need money” and 250k was agreed upon, but the proper information wasnt given.
This mornings NY Post stated the proper evidence wasnt in place to make the arrest for extorsion before He left.
It really makes me wonder…How much did Stephany already know…Did She really know who He was..Did she know what she was looking for or just bump into it? Interesting
I am curious to the amount of time that passed from when he came back with the coffee and when he left for good.
Why are the Dutch swarming over Peru with stis story? They didn’t seem to give a rats ass about what happened to Natalee in Aruba.
(Hey Carpe!~)
AND proof he probably killed other girls in other countries he has travelled.
It doesn’t matter how much time passed. The LE can figure out what she ate that day/night and determine pretty closely determine when she died by what was in her stomach. Pretty simple police stuff.
It doesn’t matter if her only gets 5 years. Everyone in there has HIV and they are going to rape him over and over. I would bet within one year he is beaten to death…If this girls dad is connected, he will make sure he is taken care of in that prison.
i just hope this doesnt turn out to be like the natalie case, surely peru is not going to let him get away. i wish i was there to hurl a couple of stones at mama sloot.
no help from daddy ! u should have been put down like a dog !! they need to cut your fingers & toes off one by one !!!!!!!
Let me see…….You get 25 years for having drugs on you but you get 3 years for killing someone in cold blood??????????? Why the hell would they even consider plea bargaining this down????
mayan…good to see you. Yeah, the dutch are looking for reconciliation on the eff ups they are?
Michael on June 9th, 2010 1:11 pm
#11 Peter Blanken said Dutch detectives are traveling to Peru as we speak to question Joran and to look in his laptop. My guess is that they did indeed find something that can help solve the case on Aruba.
Give it to the FBI in the USA first I say.,,
The time passed from going for coffee and when he left.. How much time ? He killed her, drank coffee, ate biscuits trying to figure out what to do with her body..showered, shaved and changed clothes and packed. Am curious how much time all that happened in..not when she died.. They already said when the found her about 12:40 am Wed..she had been dead from 48 to 72 hours.
Moroons…. Give some attention to all the serial killers and repeat child abuser in the usa
Joran thinks he’s the James Bond of the Netherlands.Thanks you Aruba and the FBI! He is more like the male version of Casey Anthony. Young, good looking,pathological liar,cold, calculating, murderers of young innocent females!!! No one will ever be safe, if either of them ever is set free to walk the streets and KILL again. That’s the truth!
Hi Mayan -
My guess, is it would be this.
ABC reports that hackers still by the Peruvian police are hired to Joran by laptop to dig there now photos and incriminating information about the case at Holloway have found.
http://tinyurl.com/2fwq94c
Sorry if this link is a duplication here on SM, check it out, anyway.
Interesting read- Interview w/Bo Dietl & Bill O’Rielly:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594262,00.html
ARUBA HAD AN OBLIGATION TO WITHOLD JORAN AGAIN!!! BEFORE he murdered Stephany.
Wow, just wow! Who dropped the ball here once again and how many damn breaks is the evil little Sporter going to keep getting????
What the *&%$##
Anita Van Der Sloot needs to hire a really good attorney and mover, IMO.
I don’t give a rat’s ass WHO your POS deceased husband was on that Island, most Arubans have had their fill of you and your ilk.
The TOWER OF CARDS is about to fall and fall hard!
JORAN VDS ADMITTED THAT NATALEE “hit her head” (oh, probably when he beat on her or after she passed out???? ) He is caught again testiying ON CAMERA as to how Natalee died and where he buried her. Is this true? IT CAN AND WILL AND SHOULD BE USED AGAINST HIM IN THE PROSECTION OF THE MURDER OF NATALEE AND HOLLOWAY, and the subsequent COVER UP OF ARUBAN OFFICIALS OF THE CRIME.
If Aruba does nothing this time, rest assured- others will.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, DEAD MAN WALKING ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
**** Justice for Natalee & Stephany ******
ARUBANS! GET OFF YOUR FEET AND PROTEST THE CORRUPT, INEPT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS OF YOUR ISLAND! These are YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS AND RIGHTS UNDER THE LAWS OF THE DUTCH ANTILLES THAT THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF PROTECTING THEIR OWN CITIZENS WITH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SPEAK UP ! JOIN JOSSY MANSUR AND LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, ARUBA! Your Government Officials think that murdering, raping and human trafficking on your Island are acceptable to society.
JOIN WITH AMERICANS AND PERUVIANS AND DEMAND THAT THE TRUTH ABOUT THE VAN DER SLOOTS AND ALL THE GUILTY PARTIES INVOLVED FINALLY COMES OUT AND JUSTICE IS SERVED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KALPOES—YOU ARE NEXT YOU BRUTAL RAPING PIECES OF SHIT ! Run to Suriname like the criminals you are.
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
#12 – The Peruvian LE need to backup that harddrive and lock up the original in a safe place, so that nothing happens to the information/data on it.
Handing it over to the Arubans, even allowing them the touch the keyboard, would be the height of stupidity.
18.mayan_moons, That is just bs. The case was always front page news in The Netherlands. The show that Peter R. de Vries made had 7,5 million viewers. That’s almost half the population and the highest rate ever on a tv show on Dutch tv. I think the reason why it has so much attention is that it’s really unbelievable that he did it again and finally there is evidence that he really did it and he also confessed it.
We, Dutch people, can’t help that the Aruban authorities messed up the case. We also like to see criminals where they belong, behind bars. Like said before The Netherlands have no direct jurisdiction on Aruba, only when they call in for help. When they finally did call in Dutch detectives there was no evidence left and the case was such a mess that nobody could make anything of it anymore. If they messed up out of ignorance or they just covered it up I don’t know but they should be ashamed of themselves .
But let’s hope he will finally talk to the Dutch authorities that are over there now in Peru to question him about Natalee. It seems that he’s getting at least 30 years in Peru and after that he faces 20 years in the US for extortion. Maybe he will not get convicted for the dead of Natalee but he can finally tell where the body is since he will understand now that he will probably never walk around as a free man again.
Hopefully all evidence is in place and the prosecuter is ready to roll!
A comment to all of the “What will happen to him in jail”ers…
Being that he probably doesnt speak good Spanish and is a Foreign National, He will likely be placed in “Special Quarters”(High profile cases and such/Solitary Confines). They would never drop him in with Population being that He killed a Peruvian Women…He’d probably get dropped or beaten and then they’d have a Lawsuit.
4. Selena ~ in thinking about this, I believe your statement is true…(I waited till I was married to have sex)… married or not, most women aren’t interested during that time.
shely on June 9th, 2010 2:39 pm
Moroons…. Give some attention to all the serial killers and repeat child abuser in the usa
Moroons?
Satish, I can how much help those extra 5 years in 12 grade paid off!
#32, As far as I know they talked about Dutch police not Aruban. Just because the Aruban’s messed up doesn’t mean all Dutch cops are retards also.
I think that the main reason they go to Peru is to get him to talk now he should realize that his future is in a prison anyway. He seems completely cracked by the though interrogation of the Peruvian police.
He can cry to mommy all he wants. He won’t live long enuf to stand trial once the bullet-proof vest is removed in prison.
Money talks. The only way to get Aruba to act is by an international boycott of tourism.
“The girl intruded into my private life,” he told investigators, according to Peru’s La Republica newspaper. “She had no right. I grabbed her by the neck and I hit her.”
Look at the words Joran used in his statement above.
Joran used the word (the girl) which in his eyes she is not a person.
Then he uses the words (intruded and no right).
Does he really think he has the right to beat or kill her for looking into his computer.
Again Joran is the one speaking for the victim. That’s what he did for Natalee. From a lier’s mouth he tells us what Natalee had said.
Then he cry’s to mommy about how rude the police are and how they made him confess. Again this makes him look like he does not take reasonability for his actions and mommy will make it all go away with Joe Taco’s help
This make’s me sick. It’s like it’s Stephany’s fault. I can hear Joran now. The girl made me kill her. I didn’t want too.
Send Joran to jail for the max.
90 minutes is the time between getting coffee and leaving the room is what I am hearing, someone asked on this blog. The mattress was pulled off bed, etc., made me wonder was he trying to find a way to conceal her body in/under mattress?
What Steve said.
I`m at a loss for words.
God Bless Nat and Stephany
Maggie on June 9th, 2010 3:39 pm
shely on June 9th, 2010 2:39 pm
Moroons…. Give some attention to all the serial killers and repeat child abuser in the usa
Moroons?
Satish, I can how much help those extra 5 years in 12 grade paid off!
woohoo, Kind of fun to type like Satish, might do it more often..
Good seeing you too Miss U !~ Thanks for the link Carpe! It still doesn’t feel real does it? Another girl (more? who knows) has been brutally murdered by this cold blooded reptile named Sloot.
Has Anita really gone over there? & hired a private atty? Has any Aruba paper interviewed her since this happened? So many questions & we want answers.
Maggie i heard that Joran was still wearing the white shirt he’s seen in when he enters the hotel with Stephany on his *coffee & bread run*
I’d felt maybe Stephany was dead before he went to get that coffee but mayne not.
Jean hasn’t said another word abuot the lil white purse found in his room found empty. Thats an aggravator for ya.
Powerful statement, Steve H. #40:
“Again Joran is the one speaking for the victim. That’s what he did for Natalee. From a lier’s mouth he tells us what Natalee had said.”
You nailed it, Steve. The travesty of justice, the collusion of law-enforcement officials with murdering, kidnapping, criminals to obstruct justice from taking place, while these predators and monsters used statements made by the last man seen taking Natalee away, afterwhich, no one ever saw or heard from her again – to reconstruct their perversions of justice.
Let me tell you Steve, if you’ve ever met a man or woman who wears a shield to uphold and serve the law, (and of course, I’m speaking of HONORABLE men and women, not the corrupt trash from the abyss in Aruba)- I can promise you, they are going to find a way to bring Natalee home. They do not take kindly towards smug depraved individuals who spit on their honorable reputation, while colluding to gang up on an innocent little girl, while torturing her mother and father, and desecrating the victims body repeatedly while telling the press that this charade of depravity is being conducted with the “help of the FBI”. They have no idea what they trampled on, because honor, ethics, duty and integrity were just never part of the ALE in Aruba under unconscionable leadership of men like van der Straaten and his conspirators in their accessory to the murder of an innocent American child, conspiracy to obstruct an investigation her family was entitled to, obstructions of justice that included destroying evidence, aiding criminals in the falsifying records of statements. It is the most unconscionable corruption ever displayed towards an American tourist – who was a CHILD! They are not going to rest, Steve. These are people for whom upholding the law is fundamental to the preservation of a civilized society where ENFORCEMENT of law and upholding of justice is intrinsic to honoring the public’s trust, is intrinsic to ensuring the opportunities to grow and flourish, to contribute towards society in making this world a better place for everyone. ENFORCEMENT of the law is a deterrent that insures our precious freedoms while locking up the savage depraved monsters who prey on little girls, and those who HONOR the law through ethical, integrity-driven investigative work could NEVER use the powers entrusted to their care as a means to grease their own pockets while corrupting and trampling upon a child’s pleas for justice while her heartbroken father trudges thru garbage pits, and her mother falls to her knees in sorrow. The good people of our FBI will find a way to bring Natalee home. It’s about honor, justice, integrity, ethics. It’s about keeping our children safe from the vile decay that Aruba treasures and worships. They will find a pain-staking way…and it will be done with honor, with integrity, and in the spirit of justice that precious Natalee deserved five long years ago. These Aruban beasts of corruption will not be allowed to crush Natalee’s voice. You are her spirit. Beth and Dave… and all the good people who have carried her voice for five years. Rest assured. They will nail these devils, and they will do it using Natalee’s shining voice and her light of truth.
I’ve seen footage of the two going into the room and of him leaving with his bags. Has anyone seen the footage of him going for and returning with coffee?
Peter Devries was great but even he didn’t get involved until 2.1/2 yrs after Natalee was killed. Remember Joran’s uncle…Paules’s brother is connected politically in the Netherlands & that helped Joran evade justice, publish a book there and give constant interviews of how he disposed of Natalee. Hopefully now that Paules is dead justice has finally caught up with JVDS.
I’m not blaming the average dutch person but Joran was protected at the cost of future violence done by him. Paules dying last Feb meant the end of easy money for Joran so he extorted Beth for money & why he robbed Stephany of her casino winnings after breaking her neck.
This could actually be the FBI’s shining moment in the case. They set up the sting, he should have been taken on the spot—but they would have only been able to hold him for attempted extortion at the time. Even though Joran confessed again ON CAMERA-this is getting more convoluted now as the story unwinds.
Oh, what a tangled Web we weave, Joran.
Problem is- the Spider is eating you this time before you can get out.
***** JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANYE *****
Joran won’t be a free man until he is old and gray this time and he knows it.
WHAT IS ARUBA AND THE FBI GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS? ( we know Extortion charges have already been filed in US vs. VDS) Not enough!
Where is the body of Natalee Ann Holloway and who is going to be held responsible for her Murder and the Cover up of the initial crime in 2005?
,,,,,,,,, JORAN VDS IS A SERIAL KILLER ,,,,,,,,,,
*!* dEaD MaN WaLkInG *!*
Even if he is not in gen pop in Peru prison (he won’t be- they don’t want a lawsuit)—–his days are numbered. He will be dahmered. Rightly so
Don’t you Worry Steve, the day of reckoning is upon us and Joran will get the max as he won’t last in a Peruvian prison. He will die there and then he will burn for all eternity!
There will be payment in God’s grace.
Let us hope his rage consumes him to the point that he gives the information that you and your family need for closure!
For Aruba there will never be closure – when all is said and done the world will not forget!
Boycott Aruba!!
test
I sent an email with a translation. I hope you guys got it.
I won’t believe a word Urine says unless he is connected to a lie detector test the whole time. Why do we need him to confess anything? This is a slam dunk case, give him the full sentence and let the Peru inmates have a crack at him. Urines mother makes me sick, she is trying to defend him again? Her son is a cold blooded murderer, face the facts lady, disown him.
Urine needs to be attached to a lie detector test, I won”t believe a thing he says unless that happens. He needs no offers of a lesser sentence, this is a slam dunk case. His Mommy needs to stay out of this and stop defending him, what is the matter with her? Blood is on her hands, the deceased fathers hands and the defense lawyer Joe Tacopinos hands. Let the peru prsioners earn some money and do what should have been done 5 yrs ago, eliminate this devil!
Who is traveling to Peru with Mummy VDS, a team of Paulus’ cronies who will guide her and make deals like her husband did in Aruba? There will be hell to pay all over the world if this pig gets off with a light sentence.
I said it 5 years ago, and I continue to say it every day BOYCOTT ARUBA. If our tourist dollars stop pouring in, the freaks will have to go back to Holland and sell dope.
BOYCOTT ARUBA
(someone please create a web site, I would but I dont know how to do it)
From the NY Post:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/joran_report_dead_sloot_sipped_espresso_h0Xo4WyDPR4WBgUnlPrw5N?offset=8#comments
I am by NO means blaming, nor would I ever blame Stephany but, I can’t help to wonder if she knew who Joran was and naively thought she could trick him into giving her information on the Holloway case.
The reason I question this is because with the world wide attention the case was given I find it hard to believe that anyone doesn’t know who he is.
Also, the girls (Natalee & Stephany) are so close in age and Stephany is from an affluent family and was going to school so she had access to computers and the internet. I find it hard to believe she wouldn’t know who he is.
I wonder if they have spoken to any of her friends to find out and I wonder what her personality was like. Was she a courageous go getter? Was she a stand up for justice type of person? Was there something inside that told her, ”I’ll bet I can bust this creep!”
We know so much about Natalee and what a lovely person she was, what she liked, what her ambitions were, we even saw her bedroom and knew she loved the “Wizard of Oz! We know she was the daughter that everyone wanted and America adopted as there own!
I just wish we knew more of Stephany.
Joran isn’t the only piece of this puzzle he’s just the evil piece of the puzzle.
Thanks Mayan. I’m back from being Moroon now lol. That just makes me sick.. He beat Stephany to death and broke her neck, then sat down by her body and drank his coffee and ate biscuits(cake?)… Only thing I can kill is flies and mosquitoes and that makes me sick.. can’t even imagine..
This is from the Vanity Fair article..
Moreover, Dompig says, this summer F.B.I. profilers completed a detailed psychological evaluation. “He struck us, and the F.B.I., as a guy who can make you believe he’s God’s gift to mothers-in-law,” Dompig says. “But if you look at his actions, he’s anything but. The F.B.I. profiled him as a person who never has been corrected by his parents. He’s the boss of what happens in that house. He’s the boss in the family. He is allowed to do anything.… If a person like that is in a position where a person says, ‘No,’ well, that person may change completely. Maybe he blew a fuse when she wouldn’t have sex with him, and something happened.”
JVM Jean Casarez said that Peruvian officals are going to have a press conference tomorrow morning concerning this case.
Pearl, you are named appropriately ~ you are a true treasure.
Steve, we all pray that Joran will get life in prison ~ the maximum sentence possible. We’re sickened by Joran’s comments and no, Stephany should not have been beaten and stabbed to death by this vile vermin ~ and it is unconscionable to many of us, that he’s not been stopped until now…his leaving much destruction in his path with no regard for life, no respect for young women ~ your family has been bearing up under such pain and knowing that this monster did it again, must hurt deeply that another family is now suffering too, because of Joran.
We’re so sorry and saddened by this.
It saddens & pains us to read your heartfelt comments ~ we’re with you, bro and supporting you the only way we can by praying for you, your family and sending you “hugs”… God be with you, your family as you relive the nightmare… as you continually process and grieve… we’re thankful that you post here as we really do care about you, Beth, your family, Dave and support you wholeheartedly.
We’re so, so, sorry… and those words can’t express how we feel for your family. There’s not enough words to say ~ just hugs… for your family, and the Flores’s family.
Anita you idiot…Aruban LD did not want Beth or anyone coming to Aruba…after all she was in another country and had to abide by another country’s laws.
SAME FOR JORAN, Anita!No one gives a frig if he was coerced or not. You are NOT IN ARUBA ANYMORE!!
Not only did he take her money, he also took her car. Plus he spent time trying to figure out how to dispose of her body.
This guy is an animal and should be caged.
If it were under the same jurisdiction, I would say put him in the jail cell with Charles Manson who killed a friend of mine.
Just watching TV and Lindsey Lohan is slapped on the wrist again for breaking the law and once again, gets away with it. What is wrong with these people who do not control their kids, judges who let their friend’s children and celebrities get away with things. Are they so stupid they do not know enabling people causes major problems? I think the world is just so blinded by TV, fame, money, they have no morals or care about right and wrong anymore. So sad.
#57- Lisa in MD.
I think Stephanye innocently went to the Casino for the same reason Joran was there. She reportedly loved gambling and liked playing poker. She went to have fun, and maybe win some money.
When she did win, also think that she was approached by Joran (who instantly slithered up to her bc, in fact, she did win and he saw her pay out)—and reports have it he asked her if she wanted to party and celebrate. Don’t think she had a clue to his former life or background. Like any normal person her age—she said, Sure.
I think the original intention of Joran was not to have any sexual contact with the girl- just to party and rip her off. Maybe at one point, he did ask about hooking up but Stephany tells him, Thanks but no thanks and informs him of her real sexual orientation. So, they continue to party—smoke pot, maybe Joran even offers her a few lines. Remember–GHB was found in Joran’s car—so maybe Stephany was already under the influence.
Then, somewhere in the wee hours of the morning, something goes horribly wrong. My theory is that this was not a pre-meditated Murder. Stephany was no dummy and at some point during the hours she was hanging out with Joran- she discovered that laptop and found out who he was, what his past was- and all hell broke loose.
In his own words–she intruded his privacy- he freaks out and snaps.
Ultimately he is going to get exactly what he should have gotten 5 years ago, and maybe even more. They won’t incarcerate him in gen. pop– he will be dead in days. He will be in some sort of isolation. Until he is extradited to the US, then should be imprisoned again.
WHAT HAS ARUBA DONE? N O T H I N G!
,,,,,,,,, DeAD MaN WaLKiNG ,,,,,,,,,,,,
I’m beginning to wonder if this is all about a gambling addiction. Just think about this a second.
The day Natalee Holloway disappeared, Paulus and Joran were at the casino gambling. There was also some mention of Natalee helping him regain some money.
He seems to loose lots of money gambling. Then in the Extortion Plot, he was referred to as being desperate for money, he actually contacted Beth (I thought it was a sting, but he initiated it) Then with Stephany Flores, she as well won lots of money.
I’m thinking he is killing to recoup his money…and if this is so then there should be more victims.
I think he’s gotten in over his head with some BAD gambling debts and he is in big trouble.
Also…After confessing he spoke to Anita Van Der Sloot, Mother of the Year and after talking with her took back his confession…the ole advise from her -NEVER EVER TELL THE TRUTH JORAN it would seem.
Last thing LE of Peru needs to do is hand over Joran’s computer to any Aruban!
No way do i believe they’re going to really do that….i’m sure they have they’re own techie’s to go over his pc.
Most likely Joran bragged to Stephany what really happened to Natalee and then realized he had to kill her. Lets hope there is something on that computer….
I wish everyone would refrain from calling this grown ass man…..A KID!!!!
Steve Holloway hit the nail on the head. No other person on this planet is a human being to Joran besides himself. The sun rises and sets for him in his mind.
Damn those Peruvian interrogators, they weren’t nice to lil Joran. Let’s not talk about the fact that JORAN BRUTALLY MURDERED two young women in the prime of their life.
“She intruded into my private life” – I’m so special that I can TAKE her LIFE for looking on my computer to find out who I was and how many lies I told.
“Mama get me a lawyer” – screw the fact that I’ve probably contributed to the death of your sons father and your husband with my lies and antics; don’t worry that you will be left broke – get me the delicious sporter an attorney to try to cover my butt after I KILLED two young women and tortured the family of one of my victims for 5 years.
And Anita’s just dumb enough that she sucks in again.
NGBoston you are probably right. It always comes back to the money with her. It always comes back to the drugs with him. He has quite the MO.
Like a spoiled brat that doesn’t get his way!
Anita look what you have done!
My understading from following this case is that there was a ” confession ” made in Aruba, but that was torn up. Either by Van Der Stratten or Jacobs, the frosted flakes addict.
..
Maybe this is why he thinks he can unconfess now.
..
After all, the Peruvian authorites weren’t nice to him
I do not feeol one ounce of sorrow for Urine or his family. Anita is such a blind fool she deserve the grief she is getting. As for Urine he certainly deserve the Hell he is about to get.
Ed H,
I’ll have to say, I am normally a compassionate person. Under normal circumstances, I would feel sorry for Anita (lost her husband, her son in jail).
I’m not a mocking, poking-fun at others troubles kind of person, but all gloves are off with Anita. I just watched one of the first interviews that Joran gave and he describes how Jug and Beth “barged into his home, and didn’t act like normal parents”. I tell you, my blood boiled with hatred for that young psychopath.
Anita must have made a pack with the devil of the Llano, and the mortgage is past due.
The only thing I wish is this: somehow, someway the sands of time could be rolled back, many, years to a time when Paulus and Anita were small children, and someone, maybe a Sunday School Teacher or a Boy Scout leader, or anyone could have spent quality time with the both of them and tutored them about someday being a parent, the responsibility, the obligations.
Maybe if that had been done, then the Joran that Natalee meet in Aruba (not at a bar or a casino) would have been a young man of integrity, and respect, and not some deranged, narcissistic, emotionally damaged psychopath.
I’m going to discuss such things with every kid I meet. They will think I’m some weird guy, and will avoid me at all cost.
Jerry
NG ~ I’d love to hear what Dr. Keith Albow, the forensic psychiatrist ~ would say about Jorans MO ~ if anyone could shine light into this monster murderer ~ it would be him.
I do again, believe that Joran did premeditate this latest murder of Stephany ~ as the attention was going to shine fully on Natalee’s 5th Anniversary and the opening of the center on her behalf ~ Think about it…
He recently extorted money from Beth ~ REVENGE… had a huge vendetta against Beth and how dare Beth have the limelight shine on Natalee’s center on the 5th Anniversary of Natalee’s death by his hand? ~ Divert the worlds attention on Beth and Natalee…bring it on him… (the victim… remember, HE is the victim in this… not Natalee or Stephany)… it was their fault they made him kill them… they asked for it. *(sick)
How can any of us truly get into the mind of a killer, let the experts explain, I’m sure they can… it would be most enlightening if Dr. Keith Albow would do that.
Joran~ he was out of money how come? What was the timeline when he got the $25,000.00 till he ran out of dollars… Why were the funds shut off? from Mamma? didn’t he get an inheritance from Pappa? … why was he in S. America to begin with… for what? drugs, human trafficking?, sex?, meeting with whom?… what… where?…
Follow his trail from Thailand, where he stayed, how long, with whom, how he continued to paid for his travels when the money ran out ~ get into the timeline and all… It’s expensive to travel from the Netherlands to Thailand ~ from Thailand to S. America… lodging, food, drink, rental car, casino’s… did he only have a computer in his bag and the clothes on his back?… and a tennis racket? I do hope that interpol goes through his records, his travel itinerary not to mention his computers hard drive with a fine tooth comb…
In thinking out loud, don’t you need to get Visa’s when you travel through different countries? When I’ve traveled abroad, I needed visa’s… and had to tell where and with whom/purpose for traveling…Didn’t he have to apply to these countries prior to going with an itinerary? ~ documenting where he’d be staying/ with whom and for how long and all?… or in S. America, can you just slide from border to border once in a South American Country?… or do you need individual visa’s to enter?
When he took the bait and drove around with the guy posing as a big player in the drug world in the Netherlands… he was smoking pot and “confessing”… come on, Joran ~ he could have dealt drugs to pay his way through his travels~
Why would he have a tennis racket ~ when traveling… who’d he play with?… where did it come from? (or did he purposefully buy it to commit murder?)… I find it very unusual to be carrying a tennis racket with you from the Netherlands ~ to Thailand to S. America…he doesn’t strike me as an avid tennis player ~
cha ching, cha ching, cha ching…this takes MONEY… it’s NOT adding up None of it… and I feel that there’s soooooo much more to this story… so, so, much more…it screams that it was pre-meditated. Not some random act of violence because he got pissed off because Stephany (God rest her soul) ‘invaded’ his personal space by being on his computer…
He absolutely should have been arrested well before this.
I do hope that the FBI, Interpol and the Peruvian government work together to put it all together and do whatever they can to not let him free.
It is grievous to many, that another life was taken and again, 5 years later, (and God forbid, others in between)….the Aruban authorities who let him go free, have blood on their hands, not once, but twice ~ in allowing this murderer to go free to begin with.
The Holloway family did EVERYTHING in their power to fight the authorities, fight the dysfunctional Judicial system in Aruba so it would NOT happen again and they did everything they could to get Joran put away, so he would not commit murder again and sadly, oh so sadly, he did. I pray, they do not beat themselves up over this… they dud everything humanly possible and within the law ~ the Aruban officials failed them and society in general ~ miserably, they failed the Flore’s family as they let a killer go free and another young lady is dead because of this.
Shame.
SM ~ did my last comment go through? or is it in that spam folder too…
~kitty…
___________________________
SM: It was in the spam folder, I took it out (klaasend)
So, the FBI has another story from JVDS, which sounds like one of the first stories we heard all those years ago. She fell (or was pushed), hit her head and died. Then he led John Kelly to the site where his Dad helped him bury Natalee. No body found yet, perhaps Daddy moved the body and told no one. JVDS took $25k to get the info so far.
What a strange set of events as perhaps we could have closed in on Natalee and this puke kills another girl.
My prayers are with both families.
bill
Hi! I was writing and commenting in this site, 5 years ago when Natalee Holloway went missing. Though everything indicated that Joran was the one guy who killed the girl, the judicial system in Aruba, Netherlands and USA failed to convict him. It is unfortunate that another girl had to die. My sympathies are with these girls families. Hopefully International judicial treaties will change and caught these monsters on time. My deepest sympathies to Natalee’s and Stephanie’s families and for Joran…….burn in hell devil!
It’s hard in these instances not to “hate” but “hate” as an emotion only hurts the person feeling the emotion.
I can’t say I feel sorry for Anita because I’ve asked myself what I would do if it were my son. The first time around, I’d be there for him. Even if the evidence (like in Natalee’s case) screamed guilty – I would still support and love my son while telling him to face the music, working toward some mitigation.
But after Joran walked away from the truth of what he did to Natalee and then dared to taunt the Holloway family I could not look at my son without huge anger. If it were my son – I’d tell him he would face the music all by himself. It wouldn’t stop my love and hurt for him but I could not enable a murderer and an obviously evil person even if he were my son.
How Anita can now robbed from her remaining children for a private lawyer for Joran the killer is beyond me and my understanding. Does Anita really, truly want this evil human being roaming the face of the earth for his next victim? Shouldn’t any money she spends on Joran be for psychological help (though I think its too late)?
Anita, you have a responsibility to your other children. Your opportunity to “mother” Joran is over.
I don’t think these people in Peru are stupid enough to believe this psychopath’s lies. He is a murderer, plain and simple…and he is dumb too. He knew better than to kill though, after all he beat her so badly she missed an eye, and he broke her neck. Come on! He is a viscious criminal and I hope the prisoners beat the —out of him. Maybe they should break his neck. I have heard people will stand in line for $50 to slit his throat. Well, one can hope.
Ho many more people has this scumbag killed? Why is he lying his way out of the Holloway murder. And to sink so low as to demand money from Natalie’s mother to tell her where the remains are…I guess that tells us he murdered her. Oh, it makes me so furious when I see this devil, who killed these beautiful girls.
I doubt this post will make it to your sick website but i try anyway.You are making pure speculations based on leaked news(gossips)and your imagination to stirr up the public opinion.Me to i want Joran in jail for as long as possible but the way you guys make news is really disgusting.This is my opinion maybe because i dont live in the U.S and my morals are a little higher then those of the webside owners and most of your readers.
__________________
SM; Spare us your dribble … Your morales you fool hypoctite. You calim to be so morale but are so judgmental in your accusations against readers and this site. It just shows that you are a complete agenda driven idiot.
So I guess a confession is irrelevant … the favt that he has done the same thing previous as well. Wonder the smack you would be talking if it was your daughter who was killed at the hands of JVDS? Hmm.
Get a clue.
R
Without reading all 79 posts, I’m jumping right on in here: Anyone wonder what her motives were as she looked like she was up to something other then a late night romp? It almost looks to me as though someone set her up for this (not murder) but to go see what you can find out on him. She looks inexperienced at it, looks like she targeted him at the poker table, looks down as she walks in. It’ll be interesting to find out in the end who put her up to this or simply why she wanted the goods on Joran but put herself at risk. Just my thoughts.
What doesn’t fit with this story is…..
He said that he went to get 2 cups of coffee and bread, then killed her when she was on his computer, and that he had the coffee and some drugs while he pondered what to do with her, that he wanted to put her in the suitcase and take her out of the hotel that way, except HE COULDN’T, BECAUSE HE HAD NOT PAID HIS BILL AT THE HOTEL, AND DIDN’T HAVE THE FUNDS TO DO SO, because they would assume he was skipping out on the bill….OK, he stole the money she had won, so what does he mean he had no funds, he was broke? Did he already pay someone off, someone he owed money too? Did the mysterious Albanian who is camera shy have anything to do with it? Were is Stephany Flores’ money and jewelry? There is a huge problem with this part of the story.
Or am I just not getting it?
I was posting here often 5 yrs ago too. I recall steveinmd, hat, bendix, hammer, nonesuch. and I could name many more. I found this site in a google search to see if I was the only person thinking on June 4th that the police should be trailing the Dad. At the time I thought NH was a victim of sexist high-jinx gone very wrong at the hands of Joran and in turn was passed to Paulus. Every scenario imaginable in hiding the evidence requires a complicit member in LE. I am saddened that Natalee, Stefany and their families lives were ruined by the dysfunction in the van der Sloot family. I am glad to have a place where I can find others who have taken the time to review public records and understand that the Aruba investigation was not naive but tainted. I would like to know more about Paulus, his social life and his finances. I would also like to have see an autopsy.
Reports are now saying that he ate his biscuits and drank his espresso in the room beside Stephany’s body. We all remember his “confession” under cover where he describes how he did not lose a single minute of sleep after dumping Natalee.
These are two key points into the mind of a psychopathic killer. He has no feeling whatsoever. What he did to Stephany is gruesome at best and to follow that up with breakfast and a shower?
There is absolutely no chance to rehabilitate this monster. Put a fork in him because he’s done. He absolutely MUST be incarcerated for life. He is much too dangerous to ever walk the streets, even at 80 years of age.
Anita and Paulus had some experience with his violent anti-social behavior long before Natalee was brutally murdered by him. As far as I am concerned, the blood of all his victims is on their hands. They should have put him into treatment and on serious anti-psychotic medication long ago; say back when he was caught torturing helpless animals?
very long time to mmoderate a simple text i geuss freedom of speech is not what you look for on this site….only looking for people who blow you whisle….or i am i wrong?
__________________
SM: No you are wrong as usual. Keep the insults up and you will be banned though, this is not a public forem, it is a private one and you will be respectful when you are in anothers home. GOT IT!
R
Curiously, in one of his earlier comments he said “I would never kill a girl” but then he does.
And if he would never kill a girl, that leaves everyone else as fair game?
Put him in a zoo for all to observe.
#73 – I believe you are absolutely 100% on target.
It is critical that we not allow anyone or anything to divide us at this time. What can we do to help?
Want to put democracy in action?
Here are few steps you can take to support Beth and Dave in their five year battle of torment and suffering, to find their daughter Natalee, who was savagely kidnapped and brutally murdered in May of 2005, never to be seen again.
Help Beth and Dave to find justice for their daughter. Help Beth and Dave to bring Natalee Holloway home.
If this American child doesn’t matter, if bringing her home doesn’t matter, if justice for a criminally victimized child and her suffering family no longer matters, then we all better take a long hard look at why training the Aruban police force with our tax dollars while using our finest FBI agents should matter, when the Aruban police used the best of our FBI’s resources (and off of our tax dollars) to literally obstruct justice for an American citizen.
Natalee Holloway was brutally denied her human rights and her family was heinously denied their right to an ethical, integrity-driven police investigation. The Aruban police obstructed justice and denied the Holloway family their right to finding their daughter, and bringing her home.
Want to support Beth and Dave in their five year battle for justice? Here are some steps you can take.
A few simple rules will help keep us focused and not allow anyone or anything to divide us from our goal: Justice for Natalee. Support Beth and Dave in their right to bring their daughter home. Natalee was not only a victim of a vicious kidnapping and murder. She’s been held hostage in Aruba for five long years.
Some guidelines to consider: DO NOT LET ANYONE OR ANYTHING DIVIDE US. When you take action on behalf of Natalee and her beautiful family, you are standing up for an American citizen.
Therefore, in this battle: We are not republicans or democrats, we are not southerners or northeners.
WE ARE AMERICANS. We are united. We want justice for an American citizen.
WE WANT OUR DAUGHTER FROM THE SOUTH GRANTED JUSTICE. WE WANT NATALEE’S FAMILY GRANTED THE RIGHT TO BRING THEIR DAUGHTER HOME.
WHAT YOU CAN DO:
Be concise. Be focused. Be respectful.
1. Contact the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations:
http://foreign.senate.gov/
Respectfully ask Sen. Kerry and Sen. Luger what they are doing to help the FBI bring Natalee Holloway home and how they are supporting her family in finding justice for the human rights violations inflicted upon Natalee and her family.
Sen. Kerry:
(202) 224-2742
Sen. Luger:
(202) 224-4814
2. Contact the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs.
http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutCommittee.Membership
Ask the senators: what steps have you taken to support our FBI in their work with inter-governmental agencies that have not honored treaties with the USA concerning support for victims of criminal acts in international territories. Ask the senators what steps they have taken to support our FBI in seeking intergovernmental support from the Netherlands and Aruba in bringing Natalee Holloway home to her family.
Sen. Lieberman: (202) 224-4041
Sen. Collins: (202) 224-2523
3. Contact the Senate Committee on the Judiciary and respectfully ask them what have they done in the last five years to support the work of our FBI in helping them to bring Natalee Holloway home, and her family to receive a just, ethical investigation for their victimized daughter?
http://www.senate.gov/general/committee_membership/committee_memberships_SSJU.htm
Has Mr. Leahy or any of the 19 members ever contacted the FBI, to ask how they could be of support and assistance?
Sen. Patrick Leahy: (202) 224-4242
4. Contact the United States Senators representing the state of Alabama.
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=AL
Respectfully ask the senators: What are you doing to represent your missing constituent, Natalee Holloway, brutally taken from her family five years ago while her family has been denied the right to an ethical integrity-driven police investigation into the criminal acts inflicted upon their child for the last five years?
Have either of these senators every contacted Natalee’s family to ask them how they can help Natalee’s family in their five year battle of torment and suffering in trying to find out what happened to their child? Have either of these senators asked Beth and Dave how they can be of service in helping them bring home their beloved daughter from the south? Have either of these senators ever contacted their local FBI to ask how they can be of service in supporting the work of the Alabama FBI team working tirelessly to bring home their daughter of the south?
Sen. Sessions: (202) 224-4124
Sen. Shelby: (202) 224-5744
Do not evil win.
Become the voice for Natalee’s right to justice.
Become her voice in her cries to come home.
*corrections
#73 – I believe you are absolutely 100% on target.
It is critical that we not allow anyone or anything to divide us at this time. What can we do to help?
Want to put democracy in action?
Here are few steps you can take to support Beth and Dave in their five year battle of torment and suffering, to find their daughter Natalee, who was savagely kidnapped and brutally murdered in May of 2005, never to be seen again.
Help Beth and Dave to find justice for their daughter. Help Beth and Dave to bring Natalee Holloway home.
If this American child doesn’t matter, if bringing her home doesn’t matter, if justice for a criminally victimized child and her suffering family no longer matters, then we all better take a long hard look at why training the Aruban police force with our tax dollars while using our finest FBI agents should matter, when the Aruban police used the best of our FBI’s resources (and off of our tax dollars) to literally obstruct justice for an American citizen.
Natalee Holloway was brutally denied her human rights and her family was heinously denied their right to an ethical, integrity-driven police investigation. The Aruban police obstructed justice and denied the Holloway family their right to finding their daughter, and bringing her home.
Want to support Beth and Dave in their five year battle for justice? Here are some steps you can take.
A few simple rules will help keep us focused and not allow anyone or anything to divide us from our goal: Justice for Natalee. Support Beth and Dave in their right to bring their daughter home. Natalee was not only a victim of a vicious kidnapping and murder. She’s been held hostage in Aruba for five long years.
Some guidelines to consider: DO NOT LET ANYONE OR ANYTHING DIVIDE US. When you take action on behalf of Natalee and her beautiful family, you are standing up for an American citizen.
Therefore, in this battle: We are not republicans or democrats, we are not southerners or northeners.
WE ARE AMERICANS. We are united. We want justice for an American citizen.
WE WANT OUR DAUGHTER FROM THE SOUTH GRANTED JUSTICE. WE WANT NATALEE’S FAMILY GRANTED THE RIGHT TO BRING THEIR DAUGHTER HOME.
WHAT YOU CAN DO:
Be concise. Be focused. Be respectful.
1. Contact the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations:
http://foreign.senate.gov/
Respectfully ask Sen. Kerry and Sen. Luger what they are doing to help the FBI bring Natalee Holloway home and how they are supporting her family in finding justice for the human rights violations inflicted upon Natalee and her family.
Sen. Kerry:
(202) 224-2742 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-2742 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Sen. Luger:
(202) 224-4814 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-4814 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
2. Contact the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs.
http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutCommittee.Membership
Ask the senators: what steps have you taken to support our FBI in their work with inter-governmental agencies that have not honored treaties with the USA concerning support for victims of criminal acts in international territories. Ask the senators what steps they have taken to support our FBI in seeking intergovernmental support from the Netherlands and Aruba in bringing Natalee Holloway home to her family.
Sen. Lieberman: (202) 224-4041 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-4041 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Sen. Collins: (202) 224-2523 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-2523 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
3. Contact the Senate Committee on the Judiciary and respectfully ask them what have they done in the last five years to support the work of our FBI in helping them to bring Natalee Holloway home, and her family to receive a just, ethical investigation for their victimized daughter?
http://www.senate.gov/general/committee_membership/committee_memberships_SSJU.htm
Has Mr. Leahy or any of the 19 members ever contacted the FBI, to ask how they could be of support and assistance?
Sen. Patrick Leahy: (202) 224-4242 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-4242 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
4. Contact the United States Senators representing the state of Alabama.
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=AL
Respectfully ask the senators: What are you doing to represent your missing constituent, Natalee Holloway, brutally taken from her family five years ago while her family has been denied the right to an ethical integrity-driven police investigation into the criminal acts inflicted upon their child for the last five years?
Have either of these senators every contacted Natalee’s family to ask them how they can help Natalee’s family in their five year battle of torment and suffering in trying to find out what happened to their child? Have either of these senators asked Beth and Dave how they can be of service in helping them bring home their beloved daughter from the south? Have either of these senators ever contacted their local FBI to ask how they can be of service in supporting the work of the Alabama FBI team working tirelessly to bring home their daughter of the south?
Sen. Sessions: (202) 224-4124 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-4124 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Sen. Shelby: (202) 224-5744 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 224-5744 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Do not let evil win.
Become the voice for Natalee’s right to justice.
Become Natalee’s voice in her cries to come home.
Sorry, Klass. *Corrections. Please omit previous posts.
#73 – I believe you are absolutely 100% on target.
It is critical that we not allow anyone or anything to divide us at this time. What can we do to help?
Want to put democracy in action?
Here are few steps you can take to support Beth and Dave in their five year battle of torment and suffering, to find their daughter Natalee, who was savagely kidnapped and brutally murdered in May of 2005, never to be seen again.
Help Beth and Dave to find justice for their daughter. Help Beth and Dave to bring Natalee Holloway home.
If this American child doesn’t matter, if bringing her home doesn’t matter, if justice for a criminally victimized child and her suffering family no longer matters, then we all better take a long hard look at why training the Aruban police force with our tax dollars while using our finest FBI agents should matter, when the Aruban police used the best of our FBI’s resources (and off of our tax dollars) to literally obstruct justice for an American citizen.
Natalee Holloway was brutally denied her human rights and her family was heinously denied their right to an ethical, integrity-driven police investigation. The Aruban police obstructed justice and denied the Holloway family their right to finding their daughter, and bringing her home.
Want to support Beth and Dave in their five year battle for justice? Here are some steps you can take.
A few simple rules will help keep us focused and not allow anyone or anything to divide us from our goal: Justice for Natalee. Support Beth and Dave in their right to bring their daughter home. Natalee was not only a victim of a vicious kidnapping and murder. She’s been held hostage in Aruba for five long years.
Some guidelines to consider: DO NOT LET ANYONE OR ANYTHING DIVIDE US. When you take action on behalf of Natalee and her beautiful family, you are standing up for an American citizen.
Therefore, in this battle: We are not republicans or democrats, we are not southerners or northeners.
WE ARE AMERICANS. We are united. We want justice for an American citizen.
WE WANT OUR DAUGHTER FROM THE SOUTH GRANTED JUSTICE. WE WANT NATALEE’S FAMILY GRANTED THE RIGHT TO BRING THEIR DAUGHTER HOME.
WHAT YOU CAN DO:
Be concise. Be focused. Be respectful.
1. Contact the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations:
http://foreign.senate.gov/
Respectfully ask Sen. Kerry and Sen. Luger what they are doing to help the FBI bring Natalee Holloway home and how they are supporting her family in finding justice for the human rights violations inflicted upon Natalee and her family.
Sen. Kerry:
(202) 224-2742
Sen. Luger:
(202) 224-4814
2. Contact the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs.
http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutCommittee.Membership
Ask the senators: what steps have you taken to support our FBI in their work with inter-governmental agencies that have not honored treaties with the USA concerning support for victims of criminal acts in international territories. Ask the senators what steps they have taken to support our FBI in seeking intergovernmental support from the Netherlands and Aruba in bringing Natalee Holloway home to her family.
Sen. Lieberman: (202) 224-4041
3. Contact the Senate Committee on the Judiciary and respectfully ask them what have they done in the last five years to support the work of our FBI in helping them to bring Natalee Holloway home, and her family to receive a just, ethical investigation for their victimized daughter?
http://www.senate.gov/general/committee_membership/committee_memberships_SSJU.htm
Has Mr. Leahy or any of the 19 members ever contacted the FBI, to ask how they could be of support and assistance?
Sen. Patrick Leahy: (202) 224-4242
4. Contact the United States Senators representing the state of Alabama.
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=AL
Respectfully ask the senators: What are you doing to represent your missing constituent, Natalee Holloway, brutally taken from her family five years ago while her family has been denied the right to an ethical integrity-driven police investigation into the criminal acts inflicted upon their child for the last five years?
Have either of these senators every contacted Natalee’s family to ask them how they can help Natalee’s family in their five year battle of torment and suffering in trying to find out what happened to their child? Have either of these senators asked Beth and Dave how they can be of service in helping them bring home their beloved daughter from the south? Have either of these senators ever contacted their local FBI to ask how they can be of service in supporting the work of the Alabama FBI team working tirelessly to bring home their daughter of the south?
Sen. Sessions: (202) 224-4124
Sen. Shelby: (202) 224-5744
Do not let evil win.
Become the voice for Natalee’s right to justice.
Become Natalee’s voice in her cries to come home.
What do you CALL IT – when a VICTIM wants to LEAVE, and the MURDERER DOES NOT ALLOW HER TO LEAVE?
Can you say: KIDNAPPING? FALSE IMPRISONMENT?
For however short beautiful Stephaney’s life was, Joran Van der Sloot DENIED Stephaney her freedom to leave.
STEPHANEY WANTED TO GET OUT OF THAT ROOM.
STEPHANEY TRIED TO LEAVE.
JORAN, the same sick predator that denied Natalee Holloway her human rights, denied Stephaney her human rights.
HE KEPT HER PRISONER.
HE DENIED HER – HER FREEDOM TO LEAVE.
HE KIDNAPPED HER – HE FALSELY IMPRISONED HER.
AND FOR THAT, HE SHOULD ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
HAD JORAN NOT IMPRISONED STEPHANEY, SHE WOULD BE ALIVE RIGHT NOW.
Praise God for you Pearl and being proactive and helping us continue to support the Holloway family and Flores’ family… this is good.
Natalee’s voice, nor her memory ever be silenced as Stephany’s will not be silenced either…and God Bless her ferocious, fierce Mom and family for their exhaustive efforts to find their daughter.
Our continual prayers are with both families.
Everyone has a responsibility to the ‘community’ ~ This responsibility is not mutually exclusive because, if it is not affecting your life personally, you know someone who it is affecting.
We must dedicate our time, energy and resources to create the kind of ‘community’ we want to live in…
I also believe it is very important that we do something meaningful and in doing so, leave a lasting impact.
I’ll end with this quote:
“Edmond Burke state, “All that’s required for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing”.
We CAN do something!
Let’s do it, together…
Van der Sloot was secretly videotaped by the FBI in an Aruba hotel telling Kelly he pushed Holloway down, she hit her head on a rock and died, he added.
He said he then contacted his father, who helped him bury the body, Dietl added.
Under surveillance by the FBI, Kelley and Van der Sloot went to where the body supposedly was buried.
No body has been found.
The investigation of Van der Sloot in the Holloway case was simply not far enough along to have him arrested, the FBI and the U.S. attorney’s office in Birmingham said Wednesday.
SM you are right this is not a public forum and as a member of this forum I respectfully request that if john alonso posts critisism of this forum again (3 strikes) he will be premanently blocked.
We are here to discuss the Natalee Holloway case no to critisize how Scared Monkeys runs this site.
I think I speak on behalf of myself & many posters here when I express “How grateful I am for the work and continued effort that this site affords us!
This Site is the BEST and We have grown to LOVE you! Thank you Very, Very Much!
[...] Is it any wonder why Joran Van der Sloot’s attorney does not want “the Sporter” to reenact the crime? [...]
# 80: What you are missing is that Joran confessed to Natalee’s murder at least twice (we think 3 times), extorted money from the Holloways by saying he knew where Natalee was buried, and has confessed to murdering Stephany. Now just why is our belief that Joran van der Sloot is a murderer a “rush to judgment”?
Does your “moral” country (probably Aruba or the Netherlands)teach that this is respectable behavior? Are you suggesting we shouldn’t believe Joran’s confessions?
Mercy, did everyone see Fox News this morning and what’s coming out of Peru re: the interrogation and evidence? Cripes. These law enforcement officials down there deal with the most violent of drug dealers and THEY were IMPRESSED by Urin’s intelligence and brutality? Says alot. Wasn’t Ted Bundy also considered literally a genius I.Q.-wise? Man…makes them so much more dangerous. sociopathic AND intelligent…and no fealing he is responsible for anything in achieving his way and means to get what he wants.
*************************\\Peruvian interrogators restricted their questioning of Van der Sloot to the case of Flores, the daughter of a circus promoter and former race car driver whom he met playing poker at a casino, Guardia said.
He told the AP in an interview Wednesday evening that the 6-foot-3 (190-centimeter-tall) Van der Sloot, 22, impressed investigators with both his intelligence and brutality.
“He grabbed her and smashed her with an elbow,” Guardia said, pointing to his own nose. “A lot of blood spewed out … Then he strangles her and throws her to the floor.”
“He is irascible. He has no self-control,” Guardia said.
The general said Van der Sloot took Flores’ cash, about US$300 worth of Peruvian currency, and two credit cards.
Guardia said Van der Sloot attested in his confession to killing Flores because she found out about the Aruba case by using his laptop without his permission. But he said police didn’t necessarily believe him and think he may have killed Flores before going out and returning to the room with two cups of coffee and rolls.
“This guy is very intelligent but at times has lapses,” said Guardia. “And the truth is that he is not a person in possession of all his senses.”
….and what it says Urin declare regarding Natalee.
******************
He was charged with extortion in the United States on June 2, the day of his arrest in Chile, in a case U.S. law officers and a private investigator say stemmed from work revived in April when Van der Sloot contacted a lawyer for Holloway’s mother. The Dutchman was seeking $250,000 in exchange for the location of the young woman’s body, they said.
Van der Sloot’s father died in February and he “wanted to come clean, but he also wanted money,” the private investigator, Bo Dietl, told the AP.
Holloway’s family said they wanted closure and the attorney, John Kelly, contacted the FBI. It sent 10 to 12 agents to Aruba who set up a sting operation, added Dietl, who works with Kelly.
In the operation, Van der Sloot was given $10,000 in cash — another $15,000 was wired to a bank account in his name — and told he’d get $225,000 once the body was found, the investigator said.
Van der Sloot was secretly videotaped by the FBI in an Aruba hotel telling Kelly he pushed Holloway down, she hit her head on a rock and died, he added.
He said he then contacted his father, who helped him bury the body, Dietl added.
Under surveillance by the FBI, Kelley and Van der Sloot went to where the body supposedly was buried.
No body has been found.
Here’s what I want to know. There was at one point in Natalee’s investigation early on when we all heard the charge/suggestion “heavy battery”. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? Urin’s pie-hole? I witness?
I no way any longer believe Natalee simply had a accidental overdose thx to Urin’s date-rape drug and alcohol mix. Liars love to mix a little truth with their lies. So, she hit her head? On what, your elbow Urin? Only reason she fell is you hit her because she most likely spurned your advances. If the authorities don’t get the truth out of you, the other prisoners are probably interested in doing so. Good luck in the dungeon Urin….
I still dont think he is telling the whole truth, i believe she was drugged, maybe started to wake up and fought him, I think the coffee run was a cover up, remember he is a sick s.o.b. as to the Mr. alonso, I live in the u.s.a and i do have morals, i have no daughters, natalie became my child 5 years ago and we all in america want her home. If you dont like sm, why are you here. Joran does not deserve the air I breathe.
#98- Brenda—-you are so right. Joran was adamant about how much trouble he would have been/be in if Natalee’s body was ever found.
We all have speculated that she was raped and beaten. The problem now is, after such an elapse of time- even if poor Nat’s bones are recovered- an autopsy won’t reveal cause of death.
Only Joran and those Kalpoop Brothers know EXACTLY what happened that night. Those wussies will take that to their graves, too because they know if they talk, they will be amongst the walking dead.
“Something bad happened” is what Satish told his jail mate when they were first incarcerated.
Once again, I never believed Natalee’s murder was a pre-meditated act. This was Joran’s usual MO. But when something goes wrong with the females he is trying to have sex with and steal from- he goes beserk and turns into a violent person.
In the delicious Little Sporter’s mind, he believes that these Girls have no right to protest or fight him off. This angers him, and when they attempt to become free of his imprisonment- he flies into a rage and ends it by beating them into submission.
He is one twisted Bastard. Not a serial Murderer, IMO. But a Psychopath/Murderer just the same who has severe Anger Management Problems and a warped sense of entitlement. I believe also that he views most females as disposable, not even as other humans. They are all placed upon this Earth to be at his service, used, exploited and sold for money to Human Sex/Traffickers. He should be locked up for life just for that as he is a severe danger to Society.
********** JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANY *****
,,,,,,,, Joran VDS is a DeAD MaN WaLKiNG ,,,,,,,,,
Wonder why people think Joran killed Natalee..This don’t even include him saying he was shaking the bitch and threw her in the bushes while he called someone to take her out and dump her dead or alive. Joran stating that he thought deepak raped and buried her. Deepak saying he thought Joran raped her. Framing 2 African American men for kidnapping and murder. Paulus calling Natalee a body just a few days after she is gone..saying If they have no body, they have no case. Furthermore noone on a blog has ever convicted someone of murder and sent them to jail.
Hans Mos, on CNN.. Dec 21, 2007
Mos on Thursday laid out the evidence authorities have in the Alabama teenager’s disappearance on May 30, 2005.
In an Internet chat shortly after Holloway vanished, one of the three suspects said she was dead, Mos said.
The chat, retrieved from a computer hard disk, was among new evidence prosecutors used to justify re-arresting the three in November, he said.
New technology that was not available in 2005 was used to find that chat and more between two of the three suspects, as well as others, he said.
In the chat, Mos told CNN’s Susan Candiotti, one of the suspects said, “The fact that she’s dead is not good,” referring to Holloway.
Other chats written before May 30 were also found, in which the suspects discussed “picking up American girls and what they plan to do with them,” Mos said. Such chats gave authorities an idea of how the suspects operated, he said.
But, he said, authorities did not find any further discussion of Holloway’s death or how she died. “If we had that, we would have been much further [along] than we are now,” Mos said.
Other evidence against the three included two new witness statements. In one, a female friend told authorities that one suspect called her about five hours after Holloway was last seen leaving an Oranjestad, Aruba, nightclub with van der Sloot and the Kalpoes.
The female friend said that she could tell during the conversation that something was wrong, Mos said. When she asked about it, the suspect — whom Mos did not name — told her that “he didn’t want to cause her any trouble, and that what had happened couldn’t be discussed over the phone,” he said.
Police wanted to ask the suspect what he meant by that statement, he said, but after their re-arrest, all three men exercised their right to remain silent and refused to speak to authorities.
A second witness statement came from a teacher who said that another one of the suspects exhibited “very peculiar behavior” the day after Holloway’s disappearance, including making or receiving a lot of telephone calls, Mos said.
A fourth piece of new evidence came when authorities bugged the Kalpoe home in June and picked up a conversation about what happened that night, he said, but did not elaborate.
June 11, 2005
Aruba police official: Suspect confesses to killing missing teen (CNN)
One of three young suspects arrested Thursday in the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to her killing, a senior police official said late Friday.
Police did not say which of the three confessed to the killing of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. The three have been identified as brothers Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Depak Kalpoe, 21, and their friend, 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, the son of a judge. The three, taken into custody early Thursday, were the last people to have reported seeing the missing woman.
While this could be a false rumor or the suspect could be confessing falsely for some reason I can’t fathom, the circumstances of her disappearance always made it quite likely that Holloway was indeed murdered. Sad news.
Update (0735): Aruba Police: Suspect Leading Us to Scene (AP)
Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba said one of three young men in custody has admitted “something bad happened” to her during her island visit. Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that the man was leading police late Friday to the scene.
ditto #73- you are right on the mark.
#82, perhaps the caller from the casino that the frontdesk put through but no one answered in the room. perhaps it was that person who had set something up between jvds and stephany. just thinking.
just googled the prisons in Peru……yikes!! don’t think Anita’s little sporter will be around to kill another young girl. he’ll most likely be meeting papa sloot soon.
not fast enough for me.
IF Natalee is buried on that island, it IS possible to see damage if she has obvious cranial injuries, or a broken neck. That would be one good thing if she is not in the ocean in that damn missing crab trap. Even so, if bones there is a possibility we may have part of the answer to what type of violence she came up against…not to mention the evil.
In regards to solving Natalee’s case I think time could be quickly getting away from us. Once jvds is in a regular cell he could be a real target for other inmates. Perhaps no more stories, but unfortunatly the threat of jvds ratting out an accomplice will be gone too.
At this time it would be great to monitor the lead suspects in Aruba (or elsewhere by now), because I would expect that anyone that helped him could be spooked fairly easily. His friends should be extremely worried that a jvds will rat on them especially when he runs out stories to trade for perks.
bill
#104 – you can only begin to imagine the buckets of sweat being dripped from all the unconscionable and depraved in the Netherlands/Aruba/Curacao, who are involved in this heinous charade, the fake, corrupt non-investigation into the criminal acts inflicted upon Natalee in 2005 and the subsequent criminal acts inflicted upon Natalee and her family.
Maybe Arlene Shippers can explain to everyone:
How is it that the Peruvian police immediately used all that video footage that they didn’t tamper with and destroy, to immediately arrest the predator from Aruba, who had been eye witnessed taking Stephaney away (as he was eye-witnessed taking Natalee away)and was the last person seen with Stephaney (just like he was the last person seen taking Natalee away) before Stephaney became (as the unconscionable in Aruba like to call Natalee) – “missing”? How is it that the Peruvian police took immediate action, Arlene using every resource of evidence that was clearly there, that only the corrupt and depraved in Aruba would think of tampering with?
I wonder if Joran wants to rot in jail alone?
And let’s not forget DEEPAK and SATISH: they are the ones who told the world that Natalee was taken to THE HOUSE… JORAN’S HOUSE. They are the ones that told the world that PAULUS was involved in this treachery and malfeasance upon an innocent child. Deepak to Joran: “Your own father…” And Satish gave us an inside view into the mind of a depraved monster regarding THE MEETINGS BY THE POOL.
How about the guy who aided the van der sloots with their merry-go-round game of switching phones, and using other people’s phones, and all sorts of interesting little DETAILS. Oh, and did I mention that THIS WAS ALREADY TAKING PLACE ON MAY 31, 2005 – while these DEVILS – were pin-pointing their first perverted lie of a drop off point to Beth? Clearly, MEETINGS and PLOTS to corrupt justice, OBSTRUCT JUSTICE and CONTAMINATE EVIDENCE was already going on. Joran can thank Deepak and Satish for all their help in nailing him to his heinous prison cell where I’m sure he’ll make lots of friends. Cry me a river, Joran’s attorney – who is so worried about his safety. For once, THE WORLD is entitled to be SAFE from this monster. LOCK HIM UP.
i wouldn’t put it past him to tell several
well thought lies to further add to the Holloway
family’s agony. he glorifies himself in lying and
playing these games with the police. want to bet he retracts his statements after mama gets him an attorney ?
I’m relieved he won’t do the “scene re-enactment” as under Peruvian law that would take several years off his sentence for cooperating. He will be convicted; and he may not even live long enough to go to trial given the high rate of prison killings there, especially since he killed the daughter of a famous race car driver and 2-time Presidential candidate. Killing him would bring a very high status within the prison system to his assassin.
The extortion sting by the FBI was successful; but it was Aruba, again, that failed to act on the information provided by the FBI and failed to jail him or prevent him from leaving the country. Once Again, it was Aruba that let him go; the FBI’s hands were tied. They had no arresting power or power to keep him in Aruba.
I don’t believe Joran’s version that he went for coffee for both of them, and in the next ONLY 90 minutes argued with and killed her, took a shower, packed and left. More likely, she was already dead and he spent those 90 minutes (sipping coffee and eating his biscuits) trying to figure out whether to dispose of the body or just run. He was caught with ocean charts of tides and currents off the coast of Peru; and rumor is he was contemplating taking her out in a suitcase and throwing her into the sea (perhaps like Natalee?).
Curious whether Peru will grant his Mommy a visa and whether the Dutch Embasssy has counseled her neither they nor Peru can protect her even if one is given due to the mob mentality – can’t kill him, but we can get to you.
Funny who first person he called was his Mommy. Guess his prison name will be “Momma’s Boy”!
Aruba is begging Peru for the laptop info – PLEASE, don’t give them anything (they’ll just use it to find a way to absolve Daddy Paulie from his help in disposing of the body and cuz they know Joran told Greata on a live TV interview that Aruban officials were paid off by his dad. So, PLEASE, Peru, only give the laptop info to the US FBI.
To all Arubans: Americans were and are more angry at the Aruban govt cover-up of Joran and Paul than about the murder itself – get it?
And it is because we feel no international tourist is safe from harm in Aruba because the govt will not act to prosecute one of its own for murder of a tourist, (and now for extortion of Holloway’s family) many of us choose to choose another Caribbean island.
The FBI provided your government with evidence that Joran contacted Natalee’s mother asking for $250,000 for him disclosing the location of where “his father, Paul” buried her.
Arubans: Now that another 21 year old is dead by the hands of one of your own (again), and a devastated family (Natalle’s) was extorted by Joran; and AGAIN your govt. ignored the evidence and let him fly out of the country and go to Peru to kill once again,
It is now your turn as citizens of Aruba and time to stand up and tell your govt. “Enough is Enough!” Don’t allow your govt to keep protecting Joran and Paul.
Arubans: Don’t forget that as long as the Kalpoe brothers who have supposedly been linked to the (alleged) murder of Natalee and have been rumored on the internet to have been involved in the slave trade still live in Aruba. I wouldn’t want my daughter going to Aruba when she has so many other islands to choose from.
Arubans: Try and wrap your brains around this: the cover-up in Aruba has probably not been about Joran or even Paul, but more about the money paid (as Joran told on intl. TV to Greta van Sustern) by his father to Aruban officials – follow the money, citizens! You want to bring tourism back to Aruba? Then ask the Netherlands to trace all the wire transfers to bank accounts held by govt officials which were wired money from either Paul Van Der Sloot of someone he knew at the time of the investigations.
America had its Watergate and Nixon – now it’s your turn – do some REAL investigative reporting and find out who, if anyone, was paid off as Joran claims.
Also, don’t presume his mother and brothers knew or know nothing. Perhaps Paul left a letter explaining it all to his family.
Someone needs an editor.
#89-Pearl—Thank you so much for providing that info. Great recommendations!
Will be contacting them today—Thank You!
To All Monkeys: Care to join me????
Let’s speak up and start some type of an on-line petition as well. The more signatures, the better.
Pearl is right—we have to be united and direct our objections to this outrageous crime to the proper authorities.
=)
The Mama Sloot is heading to Peru the week of June 14 with a SPIN DOCTOR!…imagine you are so much more concerned for your family image that the reprehensible monster you gave birth that is killing innocent young women.
My gosh, J. Renfro has even gotten on the bandwagon
http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=838&Itemid=1
Valentijn van der Sloot, Joran’s younger brother is attending Emerson College in Boston. Why did and does the US INS allow his brother to be in this country. Bloggers reported his brother once had a webpage or face book or my space (can’t remember) where he described his girlfriends in derogatory terms and was very graphically disgusting in those terms. The apple does not fall…..Now that Joran has also named his father in the cover-up and burial of Natalee one has to ask were one or both of his brothers at home that night? What did they know then or what do they know now? Irregardless no one from this family should have been or should be granted visas in the US. God forbid we have any more crimes by any members of Joran’s family here on us soil.