Morning Update; Natalee Holloway June 18, 2005


From MSNBC some more information and video regarding Steve Gregory Croes, A party boat DJ was arrested in connection with the disappearance in Aruba of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway.

A party boat disc jockey was detained Friday on suspicion of being involved in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, who vanished nearly three weeks ago while celebrating her high school graduation, authorities and his employer said.

Steve Gregory Croes, whom authorities earlier identified only by the initials S.G.C., said he was contacted by police Thursday night and went to the station voluntarily to give a statement, said his employer, Marcus Wiggins.

Croes was the fourth person detained in the May 30 disappearance of Holloway, 18. Croes also said he knew one of two Surinamese brothers being detained in the case because they went to the same Internet cafe, Wiggins told The Associated Press.

Croes was a DJ on the Tattoo, which offers nightly dining, dancing and swimming, Wiggins said.

“I’ve never had problems with him,” Wiggins told the AP. “He keeps to himself and shows up to work every day and does his job.”

Wiggins also said he had not seen the other three young men detained in the case on the boat.

The Birmingham News:

A disc jockey on an Aruban tourist party boat was detained Friday in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, making him the fourth person held by police since the honors student vanished last month.

Meanwhile, Holloway’s mother said she believed there might be more arrests before the case was resolved, although she expressed increasing frustration with the pace of the investigation. Beth Holloway Twitty also held onto hope that her 18-year-old daughter, last seen May 30, was still alive.

In an interview with Associated Press Television News, Holloway Twitty said she believed there might be more arrests before the case was resolved. She did not elaborate.

“This is just the beginning,” she said.

Looking tired and angry, Holloway Twitty, 44, said she was unhappy with the progress of the investigation.

“This case is not that hard to figure out,” she said. “Those boys have the answers.”

Holloway Twitty has said that if investigators do not make progress soon, she might start believe they are trying to protect the detainees.

“We are in day 18 with no answers,” she said Friday. “I want my daughter and I want her now.”

Holloway Twitty said she would “believe my daughter is alive until I find out otherwise.”

Evening Update: Aruba Judge Extends Detention of 3 Men

A judge on Saturday ordered the teenage son of a prominent justice official and two of his friends to stay in jail for at least another week while investigators search for clues in the disappearance of a young Alabama woman.

A disc jockey on an Aruban tourist party boat who also has been detained in the case was to appear before a judge Monday, the attorney general’s spokeswoman Mariaine Croes said as the search for 18-year-old Natalee Holloway neared the end of three weeks.

Under Dutch law, which Aruba follows as a Dutch protectorate, authorities can detain individuals for up to 116 days without filing formal charges. A judge must review the case after the first 10 days, and then periodically after that.

She has not been found, but investigators refused to say if they thought Holloway was dead. Her mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, has said she will continue to believe Holloway is alive until she has proof otherwise.

The judge on Saturday extended the detention of Joran van der Sloot, 17, and brothers, Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, for eight days, Croes said.

A fourth man who was detained Friday was identified by his boss as Steve Gregory Croes, a 26-year-old disc jockey on a privately owned party boat. He was arrested early Friday, a day after being contacted by police and giving them a statement, the boat’s owner Marcus Wiggins told The Associated Press. The detainee is not related to the attorney general’s spokeswoman.

Posted June 18, 2005 by
Natalee Holloway | 242 comments

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  • Comments

    242 Responses to “Morning Update; Natalee Holloway June 18, 2005”

    1. Tanya on June 18th, 2005 11:27 am

      I read that the 2 brothers Lawyers have requested and been granted copies of the evidence collected against them is this correct?

    2. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 11:40 am

      yes, any new developments out there? where are all the aruban posters? Seem they’ve gone the way of the dinosaur

    3. J.C. on June 18th, 2005 11:42 am

      I honestly think they are covering up the investigation or not telling us the whole story. I have a friend from the Virgin Islands and she says that they have the attitude that they “protect their own”. I’m sure I won’t be popular for saying that, but that is what I’ve been told. I was just worried about all of you!! You guys were at each others throats way too early in the morning!!! (ha-ha)

    4. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 11:44 am

      Scared..In defense of some Aruban Posters..I think we can understand them defending their Island and so many Arubans have been out searching for Natalee…its how they do things there we don’t understand and make us ANGRY…no the common folks that make Aruba their home…

    5. Tom on June 18th, 2005 11:49 am

      Most of them are over at the discussion group. We have over 600 people registered and that is where the conversations are really buzzing.


    6. alabama journalist on June 18th, 2005 11:50 am

      the common folks that make aruab their home are probably great people…just don’t mistake great people for great police department…I am so frustrated by these idiots on the force down there. I think any Braney Fife from Wichita Kansas could go down there and take care of this in three days. Hell I bet I could go down there and get something out of these three yahoos. How hard can it be to squeeze three scared kids. Separate them and tell then the first one to talk gets the best deal and then go Vic Mackey on them if they don’t give it up instantly. Case Solved bitches

    7. Vonda on June 18th, 2005 11:52 am

      I strongly believe that the 3 boys being held know Natalee’s whereabouts. They are just refusing to talk and I understand why., you either talk now or later because the truth is eventually going to come out oneway or another.

    8. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 12:11 pm

      Vonda: I agree that they won’t talk but the COPS SHOULD SQUEEZE THEM TILL THEY DO TALK! That is why the cops are morons down there

    9. Tanya on June 18th, 2005 12:25 pm

      Strange that I never heard Joran lawyer ask for his? What happening?

    10. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 12:27 pm

      Scared..Since your looking for an Aruban..Arubagirl has her own website..and, its very nice indeed…

    11. Catriana on June 18th, 2005 12:36 pm

      Thank you Tom and Red. Excellent information!!

    12. tideroller on June 18th, 2005 12:50 pm

      I just went to the discussion forum and didn’t like it one bit! I didn’t like the jumping around. This way is much friendlier.

    13. GirlInHuntsville on June 18th, 2005 12:56 pm

      I would give each suspect 10 chances to tell the truth. Starting with the thumb…..

    14. GirlInHuntsville on June 18th, 2005 12:56 pm

      Ending with pinky…..

    15. Blackie Lawless on June 18th, 2005 1:01 pm

      Any new developments in the case? I’ve been out of the news loop all morning…

    16. Lucy on June 18th, 2005 1:08 pm

      The only new news I have read is that Joran’s lawyer has been fired becaused he proposed making a deal in exchange for lesser charges (

    17. Michael Paul on June 18th, 2005 1:13 pm

      I was wondering if her abduction and sale has been discussed. Blond White Girl. Rich slave owner. Its not to far fetched. Of course no large amounts of money have showed up in the bank accounts of the suspects. This kind of thing does happen and a body has not been found.

    18. Rivie on June 18th, 2005 1:13 pm

      Hi Tom…Arubagate-in the making ????
      Now, there is a deliberate attempt to cover-up the “guilty party” or THE ONE WHO WAS INVOLVED (in the dissappearance ) BY WAY OF ROUNDING UP THOSE WHO WERE IN CONTACTS BUT NOT INVOLVED.

      So, don’t get all shooked up of this so called The Fourth Man or The Fifth etc,etc.
      This tactical strategy,have been proven very effectives,in a cover-up

      My suggestion is to THE FAMILY-THE HOLLOWAY’S-to do a separate investigation by the most unconventional ways but proven effectives,get a psychic detectives,contact the Court T-V Producers.

      All the best,keep the good works,Rivie

    19. illichk on June 18th, 2005 1:25 pm
    20. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 1:41 pm

      the other website (Tom recommended) is too confusing…..I have to laugh at ArubaGirl’s site: she said “how dare anyone criticize our justice system?” Well the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING>……and the pudding STINKS

    21. Sad in Mt. Brook on June 18th, 2005 1:49 pm

      I allowed my child to go on this trip; it seemed all the parents had misgivings and doubts about the trip from the get-go. But, it had been done for several years, and the kids are all going off to college to live on their own in a matter of weeks…some to go across country to live, and it seemed a way to break the apron strings. Do I have regrets? Sure! Would I allow it again? No! But hind sight is always better. The important thing now is to find Natalee so these kids and her family can have closure. Especially the kids; they are at a big point in their lives where they need to be looking forward to college, etc., but instead, they are immobilized by this tragedy. So, pray they find Natalee.

      By the way, according to my child (other tourists might want to know this), from the moment they arrived at the Holiday Inn things began to be stolen. Within 10 minutes of arriving, they went to the beach and immediately all their Rainbow sandals ($40 each) were stolen. Cameras disappeared; I heard one group of girls had their cameras stolen out of their hotel room at night while they slept. They were approached over and over about buying drugs. So, be aware of this petty type crime.

    22. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 1:52 pm

      Dear Sad: that phoney ARUBA GIRL should read your post! She seems to thinkAruba is a paradise. ….it sounds more like Milton’s PARADISE LOST!

    23. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 1:56 pm

      Sad: I would NEVER blame the parents for what happened! Natalee was an adult and it couldhave happened to her ANYWHERE

    24. Red on June 18th, 2005 2:00 pm

      Hey Folks

      If you have not already seen it, The Birmingham News did an article on blogs covering the Natalee Holloway story featuring Scared Monkeys,

      We truly appreciate the Birmingham News for recognizing this and doing the story. Thank you.

      Thanks to the many contributors as well. Keep the story on the forefront and everyone honest so that Natalee can be found and Nat’s families can have piece of mind. Always remember the big picture.

      Red & Tom

    25. webdude on June 18th, 2005 2:02 pm

      Granted, it was 10 years ago…but when I went to Aruba, it was a very nice place. The people were warm, and kind. We didn’t have anything stolen, never once saw drugs, nor were we offered any. The only thing we were offered was a timeshare sales pitch ;)

      We had a fabulous time and, indeed, did think we were in “paradise”.

    26. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 2:07 pm

      I’ve been thinking lately about the prospects for Natalee still being alive. As I see it, there are three scenarios under which this could be the case. First, she could be lost, an amnesiac, unable to locate her family. Second, she could have willingly run off. Third, she could be held against her will. Below I discuss each possibilty and its relative likelihood.

      I consider it to be very likely that Natalee is lost in Aruba, suffering from amnesia, or the like. All the recent publicity has made Natalee the most recognizable person in Aruba. If she were to have been afflicted while in Aruba (and there is no indication that she left the island) and has been free to move about ever since, I can’t imagine that she wouldn’t have been rescued by someone long ago.

      That Natalee would willingly run away appears unlikely given her age and circumstances. A recent high school graduate looking forward to university in the Fall, her future appeared bright, not something one would ordinarily run away from. It is true that teenagers, especially girls, run away all the time, but this phenomenon is most typically associated with seriously dysfunctional family situations — the exact opposite of what has been reported about the Twitty’s. Even if Natalee wanted to escape her family, all she’d have to do would be to wait a couple of months and go off to school. There would be no need for her to run away NOW. Moreover, if she DID run away, where could she go without her passort? What is she wearing? All her luggage and clothing were recovered at the HI. What is she living on? Whatever money she brought with her on vacation would quickly be depleted. If Natalee were over 30, with few prospects, debt-ridden, sought by police, or facing personal crises, I’d be more inclined to consider the possibility, but not given the factual circumstances as I understand them.

      This leaves one remaining possiblity to examine: that Natalee is alive and being held against her will. There are two categories under which any any possible scenario along these lines could fall. First, she could, as many have already speculated, be held for purposes of international prostitution. Second, she could be held for “private pleasure.” Each category, however, appears unlikely for the reasons discussed below.

      I tend to discount the possiblity that Natalee is being held for forced prostitution because her situation is at such variance with the profile for such victims. Human traffickers generally restrict their activities to jurisdictions under the control of weak or corrupt governments, such as one finds in East Asia, Latin America, and Eastern Europe. The principle sources for white women in the international sex trade are generally restrictedt to: Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, the former Yugoslavia, and to a lesser extent Romania, Slovakia, the Czech Rebublic, Poland, and the Baltic states. Western women are almost never targeted. Human traffickers are also very selective in their choice of victims. They prefer women in financial straits, and those with little or no family to speak of. Such people are seldom missed. Even if they are, there will likely be few or no resources devoted to their recovery. Finally, professional traffickers far differently from what we’ve seen in this case. They employ agents (modelling & employment agencies, etc.) in the victims’ native countries to lure them far from home and into the clutches of the prostitution ring. This is much cleaner than simply snatching women off the street. It also affords the traffickers an added advantage by allowing them to closely examine each prospective victim’s personal information prior to abducting her.

      Even if, against all odds, Natalee had fallen into forced prostitution, her prospects for survival would be slim because she isn’t “marketable” at this point. The business model for forced prostitution assumes that Natalee’s captors would derive a revenue stream from selling her body nightly to all comers. This can’t work. Thanks to the high-profile media coverage and the Internet, Natalee is now one of the most recognizable people in the world. It wouldn’t take long before some “John” would recognize her and alert the authorities in the hope of earning the $55,000.00 reward. Realizing this, I’d have to assume that professional traffickers would have killed Natalee some time ago and carefully disposed of her body in order to escape exposure and prosecution.

      The remaining possiblity is that Natalee is being held for “private pleasure.” Again, I can think of but three possible scenarios to explore. First, I doubt that she is being held in what amounts to “concubinage.” There are few in this world (e.g. Sultan of Brunei & Saudi Royal Family) who can afford to indulge in such things, and they generally don’t do business with teenaged punks who snatch women off the street. They operate much more like professional human traffickers, employing worldwide agents to seek out women. A second possiblity is that Natalee is being held by a gang such as the Bloods, Crips, or biker gangs in the US. In such case, she could expect to be “passed around” the club for a while before being released or killed. I don’t know if Aruba has the equivalent of such gangs (I doubt it), but if it did, I’d have to believe that all the publicity would have induced them to kill Natalee by now. The last scenario I can think of is that Natalee is being held by some psychopath. There have been such cases in the US, though they’ve been rare. There was a case some years ago, in Philadelphia as I recall, where a psycho adbucted and held women in a pit dug beneath his basement floor. He kept the women alive for some weeks or months, during which time he continuously abused them sexually. Ultimately, however, the women were killed. If Natalee were being held in Aruba by a psychopath, she would probably have to be his first victim. I doubt that Aruba has had a large enough incidence of missing persons to account for the activities of such a person. Again, this scenario is very, very unlikely.

      For all the reasons discussed above, I believe the probability that Natalee is alive is quite low. It’s certainly less than 5%, and probably less than 1%. I hope I’ve overlooked something, or that Natalee somehow beats the odds, but I’m not terribly optimistic right now.

    27. Connie on June 18th, 2005 2:11 pm

      Do any of you think Nat’s family in Aruba has access to the net? If so do you think they read what’s been said in this blog?
      What do you think they are feeling after reading posts? Completely overwhelmed at the attention that the family is getting from the public?

      It amazes me that so many people that have never met the Holloways, are praying and wishing for the family. Bad things happen all over the world. And if more of the worlds population were anything like the people that blog here, I really think the world would be a better place.

      I think we need to start a prayer chain for the family via the net. Email it to the media (news stations, news papers, etc.)

      That is just a personal feeling, that I wanted to share with you all.

      Keep hope alive. Miracles do happen. One way or another God will make sure questions will be answered.

    28. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:14 pm

      Connie: do you REALLLLY think the Holloways are reading these posts? Come now!

    29. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:15 pm

      Your idea for a prayer chain is terrific….

    30. Connie on June 18th, 2005 2:16 pm

      Scared, don’t attack my thought, I was simply wondering. It is a possibility.

    31. tuberide on June 18th, 2005 2:19 pm

      to scared sh!tless and alabama journalist, please shut the hell up and go away.having to read through your idiotic rants back and forth with people is a waste of our time and space on these servers.PLEASE save our time by only posting relevant, constructive information – your “patriotic” rhetoric and eliteism is disgusting and unfortunately all too common….also, even though you think that you are extremely intelligent, you come across appearing as you truly are – oblivious

      also, I would like to say that if the “chaperones” had fulfilled their duties of making sure that everybody in their custody returned home to the hotel every night by a certain time (2 – 4am or something), then this case would have most likely progressed more rapidly.

      continue your prayers for the Holloway family

    32. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 2:19 pm

      I suppose Natalee’s family has Internet access while in Aruba, but I also imagine that they’re absolutely consumed with generating local leads “on the ground.”

    33. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 2:21 pm

      SAD…Hardly petty crime when things were stolen out of rooms and AT NIGHT while the girls slept? Since this Aruba trip was a tradition of sorts why did the High School continue making this a place to go? Didn’t stuff happen before this? I’m ceretainly not blaming any parent but that freaked me out to read that things were stolen out of rooms and at night while the girls slept..Was this not reported?.My hubby works for a very nice world wide hotel chain and the mere hint that a maid or anyone stole things would never be tolerated And the stuff stolen on the beach..The 30 dollar offense but wouldn’t matter if they were five dollars flip flops, thats pretty scary tooA hard lesson in life for these young people to go through…many PRAYERS are being said for Natalee and her family

    34. sandy m on June 18th, 2005 2:22 pm

      to:sadinmtnbrk: did your child ever get around any of these guys and how did they act? were they cocky and smart alecs or were they nice and just party hardys?

    35. Becky on June 18th, 2005 2:27 pm

      I say we nuke Aruba and Holland. Get rid of them all. Anyone stupid enough to wear wooden clogs needs a mega dose of radiation.

    36. sandy m on June 18th, 2005 2:29 pm

      weren’t the security guards they first arrested the ones they saw on camera that stole the stuff from the luggage. why didn’t they keep them in jail for that?

    37. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:29 pm

      this was NOT a high school sponsored trip. This was a trip the graduating seniors did thru a travel agency…i agree tho that the “chaperones” (an obvious misnomer) were there just for entertaining themselves. The kids had no “check in” times otherwise Natalee would have been discovered missing from the hotel ‘WAY before 10 AM the next day!

    38. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:30 pm

      Becky: shaddup!

    39. Bobby Dhal on June 18th, 2005 2:31 pm

      Anybody think she’s alive in the island kept in a dungeon somewhere?

    40. Becky on June 18th, 2005 2:32 pm

      yeah, that’s right. you be scaredshitless when we send the subs in. 5…4…3…

    41. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 2:33 pm

      I say we give Becky a wooden shoe enema

    42. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 2:36 pm

      The Former Sheriff’s Deputy says good afternoon to all.

      To Connie: No, the Holloway family is not reading the posts on this Blog. Do you really think the Holloways wake up and go “Gee, I wonder what is being said on ScaredMonkeys…”

      To: Sad in Mt. Brook: I would love to ask you directly, face-2-face, what were you thinking when you sent your child on this trip? Why would you send your child on a trip to a location where drinking and sex is the main course on the menu of the day? Your child can’t drink in the US, so why would you send your child out of the country to engage in a behavior that is illegal here? Please, oh please do answer that question.

      We need to remember where the problem began:
      (1) With each and every parent who said yes to sending their child to the booze bash of a lifetime in Aruba.
      (2) With the parents who were content to have chapersons who did not chaperon.
      (3) With the chaperons who were so lame that they didn’t know the status of their group.
      (4) With Natalee’s friends who kept quiet thinking she was having a sexual event.
      (5) With the locals who were animals to Natalee.

      You bet I am harsh because I think you folks who sent your children on this type of trip need to have your heads examined. Dummies!

      The Deputy.

    43. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 2:38 pm

      FYI..Faux News is having a special on Natalee at 3 EST…noon Pacific…Just heard Van Der Sleaze and Buds will be transferred to a Prison today…next we will read they escaped…

    44. Becky on June 18th, 2005 2:38 pm

      clippity-clop Jeffery, I can hear you a mile away. Better take your finger out, see that glow in the sky, that ain’t the sun.

    45. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:40 pm

      someone boot Becky off this board please !

    46. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 2:41 pm

      How do you know that they’re going to escape? Are you one of those tarot card readers?

    47. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:41 pm

      Jeff, i think what they meant was they will “allow” them to escape

    48. HannieC on June 18th, 2005 2:41 pm


      Anyone who thinks that we all wear wooden shoes in Holland, doesn`t seem to know
      reality well, lmao now :)

    49. why can’t the crappy Aruban police put the squeeze SO TIGHT on those boys that they ‘fess up! That’s why I’m DISGUSTED with ARUBA on June 18th, 2005 2:42 pm

      Someone wrote:

      “why can’t the crappy Aruban police put the squeeze SO TIGHT on those boys that they ‘fess up! That’s why I’m DISGUSTED with ARUBA”.

      Putting the squeeze on alleged perpertrators so tight that they fess us can lead to false confessions (as is quite often the case here in the US). I don’t think a “confession at any cost” is necessarily what we want here – we want the TRUTH. I’m shocked at all of the disparging comments about Aruba, its citizens and authority. As many have pointed out, senseless violence happens here with frightening regularity. And I am sure that I do not need to remind you that the majority of “gone missing” cases here are never solved.

    50. Becky on June 18th, 2005 2:42 pm

      clogs scaredy pants, clogs, we’re talking clogs not boots.

      what’s your problem. We have to put up with your incessant drivel all day long.

    51. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 2:42 pm

      Woee..check it out Becky’s like pissed or something. Chill out dude!

    52. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 2:42 pm

      Dear Deputy Dawg..Do you have children? Your pretty self righteous and very insulting to these already hurting parents….You sound more like a preacher than a former Deputy and everyday I read your posts I want to ask you if you’ve ever made a bad decision in your life…Quit beating up these very cruel.

    53. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:43 pm


    54. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:44 pm

      Let me rephrase that: of course the CRIME disgusts us, but true, crime happens everywhere

      What pisses ppl off is: why isn’t this SOLVED YET??????

    55. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 2:46 pm

      Woow…Becky reminds me of one of those chicks who likes to wear Birkinstocks, cargopants, and a wears mullet haircut.

    56. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 2:46 pm

      To: Snippy,

      Yes, I have children. I am not insulting. I am angered that a bunch of dopes make stupid, stupid decisions that put their children in harms way. Snippy, tell me, why would parents in your part of the country send children to a location to execute a behavior which is illegal in the US. Can you explain that to me?

      The Deputy

    57. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:46 pm

      she’s just immature

    58. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:47 pm

      Deputy: i understand your outrage…but some parents truly feel “nothing bad can ever happen” or “my kid would NEVER do something stupid”

      I am sure Natalee’s parents have deep deep regrets but we have to get PAST that now.

    59. Tazman on June 18th, 2005 2:48 pm

      On Nassau, Bahamas many years ago, I dined at an historic home that was converted to a restaurant. I remember that under the building there was a tunnel, leading to a room and/or cave that was used to store wine bottles, etc. for the restaurant. However, I was told it was originally used during the days of slave trading and I suppose any other types of trading.

      Perhaps there are these types of buildings in Aruba that need to be checked!

    60. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:49 pm

      good point, Tazman!

    61. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 2:49 pm

      To Scared… (I prefer not to type that screen name),

      I am angered that there seems to be a lack of coming forward on the part of the Holloways and the chaperons. I think lots of people want to hear from these chaperons. How come they are not speaking?

      The Deputy

    62. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 2:50 pm

      Deputy. There are more unsolved missing children cases in Alabama(% wise) than Aruba. Where’s your logic?????? Make rational decisoons based on statistical facts, not on emotion.

    63. Connie on June 18th, 2005 2:50 pm

      This is getting rediculous. Bet your bottom dollar that I’m never coming back to scared monkeys and reading the BS some of you people keep posting. The whole purpouse of this site is to discuss what’s going on in aruba. Not to continually bash or put down someone for their opinion.

      Some of you need to grow up!!!!

    64. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 2:52 pm

      To: Bobby Dahl,

      PLEASE, What does the # of missing children in Alabama have to do with parents sending their kids of to a country to execute a behavior which is illegal in the US?

      Stay focused (PLEASE!).

      The Deputy

    65. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 2:52 pm is so frustrating but I live in a State that two of the biggest Serial Killers that ever lived roamed nor far from where I live…Ted Bundy and The Green River killer, Gary Ridgeway…some of Ted’s vicitims have never been found..I got interested in True Crime back during the TED Days and I read Ann Rules Book..”The Stranger Beside Me”…I do wish the Arubans would just relent and let our FBI do more…heard today that they are rarely ask to help in any me, thats what is so disturbing

    66. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 2:52 pm

      You’re right…it’s reminding me of a bad trip!

    67. RunningFromArlene on June 18th, 2005 2:55 pm

      Greetings to all…. and yes, sad to report to you all, but the Holloway/Twitty family isn’t reading the blog sites no matter how many stories run in the B’ham News…. There are plenty of people close to the family who are advising if anything of substance might be posted…. as I discussed this with one of the uncles who said “all I read when I went there was people bashing our family for letting Natalee go, bashing Aruba, and arguing about nonsense”… end of quote……

      Pray for the family… as I posted several times, most of the members who are there searching aren’t wealthy….and they have spend thousands of $$$ renting ATV’s, printing flyers, and continuing to search…… Pray for them..they all have other children at home back in Alabama and Mississippi who are missing them terribly…

      I will say that there is a fear within that the body was dumped in the ocean… and that if there is no body found, there will never be any justice….

      Thanks to all for your thoughts and prayers….

    68. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 2:55 pm

      Deputy: Everything!!!!! They’ve been conducting these trips to Aruba with highschool children for many years. Nothing has happened before , get it? Number of students devided by crimes= percentage Try to stay focussed and get of this emotional trip about sending “our” children abroad.

      Try to think level-headed….please!!!!!

    69. Tazman on June 18th, 2005 2:56 pm

      Did you receive my comment?

    70. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 2:57 pm

      to DEPUTY

      the teens who went on the trip said on O’reilly’s show that “w e do not blame the chaperones”….obviously everyone had signed a waiver as well

      Would i send my kids to Aruba? NO WAY. But some ppl think it’s ok….my sis in law, who’s 46 now, went to the islands with her girlfriends as a graduation present to herself at 17!!! She now looks back and says “were we stupid or what!”

    71. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 2:58 pm

      Deputy…My part of the Country is the GREAT NW…I was a single Mother for mnay years and NO I wouldn’t send my kids off to Aruba..but, my daughters did go to Hawaii when the Graduated…what our kids do when out of sight we just have no control over ..even if they go up the street to a party…all we can do is try to instill common sense, morals atc from the get go…BUT…….out of sight, out of their minds perhapes ?? I don’t know…

    72. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 3:00 pm

      Scared shitless: Again, get of this emotional kick because it’s a “foreign” country. It is a known fact that more 17 to 21 year olds get abused or murdered going of to college. Should we stop sending young girls to college?????

    73. Blackspeare on June 18th, 2005 3:01 pm

      Uh oh….another day and no body—-not good! With no forensic evidence all the alleged accused have to do is keep the stories going even if the stories are outright lies—-eventually there will be no reason to keep them! Remember it is no crime to lie only to lie in a false police report or under oath.

    74. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 3:01 pm

      To: Bobby,

      Calmly, so year after year these *RECKLESS* booze cruises have been conducted. I am glad that until now, nothing has happened. Read what one of year own (Sad in Mt. Brook ) has said “Would I allow it again? No!” This was a recipe for diaster. And finally the diaster happened.

      I am not against sending children abroad, what I am against is sending child abroad in to an enironment where the dominant behavior is illegal in the US. DID THEY NOT DO THAT? Please, educate me!

      The Deputy

    75. RunningFromArlene on June 18th, 2005 3:06 pm

      have to say that it’s unbelievable that every time I come to read here…which is once a day….the same people are posting…….. does anyone go outside on this board and do other things besides pummel each other in a vicious circle?? amazing… have fun…

    76. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 3:06 pm

      Deputy: You are correct my friend; however, these same kids will participate in illegal activities in the U.S.!!! Not that it’s an excuse, but I agree with you that parents need to educate themselves that if you go abroad and drink while underage, procure prostitutes, sleep with minors whatever, you are technically breaking the law back in the U.S. because of your American citizen status.

    77. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:06 pm

      bobby dahl: you obvious didn’t read my posts. I said crime happens all over! What pisses me, and everyone, off is the fact that the police dept down in Aruba sounds like a bunch of MORONS

    78. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:07 pm

      arlene: did you manage to run from Arlene or is she still after you?

      i am stuck here behind a desk for 8 hours and that’s why i can continue to post. If i were at home, I certainly would not be indoors

    79. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 3:08 pm

      Easy now. Morons? Probably inexperienced dealing with murder cases, unlike officials back here in the U.S. who deal with murder and abductions everyday……….and Aruba’s unsafe??

    80. scottie on June 18th, 2005 3:08 pm

      Even if it’s inadmissable in court, why would the Aruban authorities refuse to allow the three suspects to take a polygraph test administered by the FBI?

    81. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 3:08 pm

      The Holloways need to keep this in the public eye as much as possible. They need to get on to Oprah, Morry Povich, Montel, etc. etc. etc. That is not happening!

      The Deputy

    82. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:08 pm

      I just read a great book, bought it on called MEADOWLARK about a teen girl in love with a gay older professor but does not “give in ” and run wild like other kids! I am giving it to my teen daughter to read

    83. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:09 pm

      bobbY: Aruba is STUPID for not allowing our FBI guys to HELP!!!

    84. RunningFromArlene on June 18th, 2005 3:09 pm

      Scared…. I was running and then it fizzled out…… I just hope that whatever is requiring you to stay behind that desk isn’t a job that requires much concentration….. you do seem to have a lot of free time!! :)

      I do enjoy the rants… but, also, am looking for anything new to pass on to the family from anyone in Aruba… whatever happened to Aruba Girl?

    85. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:10 pm

      she has a website…..she is just a mouth defending Aruba. What happened to Blogger who posted last night that this case would be solved in a matter of HOURS

    86. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:11 pm

      arlene….when i have work, i cease looking at the internet…..right now no one is here

    87. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 3:12 pm

      They are helping; who told you that they’re not? The FBI agents don’t speak papiamento(local language) or Dutch….I mean. Those two Kalpoe brother from Suriname speak Sranan Tongo as their native language. Good luck interrogating them.

    88. RunningFromArlene on June 18th, 2005 3:14 pm

      not bashing you scared fecesless….. just amazed that you are always here…

      Fox didn’t have much to report at 3pm….except that it does sound like Joran isn’t going to be seeing Daddy for some time…..

      I’m out…. Take care bloggers…. Will check back later….

    89. scottie on June 18th, 2005 3:17 pm

      Bobby, Fox News just reported that the FBI has offered to give polygraph (lie detector) tests to the suspects, and the Aruban authorities won’t allow it.

      As for any language barrier, that’s what translators are for. Besides, there has not been any report or indication otherwise that the Kalpoe brothers aren’t fluent in English.

    90. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 3:19 pm

      Regardless of what Natalee or the “chaperones” or the parents might or might not have done, the “fault” in Natalee’s disappearance lies exclusively with those who did her harm. That said, this tragic story focuses attention on exactly what “common sense” is, and how it relates to decision-making in certain situations. In retrospect, few people would dispute that Natalee’s decision to go out to some whacked out binge bar was unwise, as was her parents’ decision to allow her to go on such a poorly structured/supervised trip in the first place. It serves no good to blame them, however. People should just learn from their experience, and adjust their decisison-making calculus accordingly. As my wise old grandfather told me years ago, “You never read in the papers about all the wonderful things that happen to people in bars after midnight.” It would be a blessing if just one additional person were to come to this realization.

    91. MadMan on June 18th, 2005 3:21 pm

      I’ve been reading the coments on this site for a while and what stands out is that according to american justice a man is innocent untill proven guilty. The comments from a lot of people on this site it looks like the 3(4) suspects are guilty untill proven innocent. If this happened in the USA there would probably be a lynch party out and the 3 boys would be hanging from a tree. Especialy the 2 that are not white.

      What happened happened and nothing we say or do will change that. Let the system on Aruba do it’s work and sooner or later there will be a solution.

      I’ve seen this on Bonaire , one of the neighboring islands, when 2 divers disapeared. a lot of speculation and nonsence on the web. Surely a couple of months later remains of at least one of them were found on 350 feet deep water. This shows that it’s not always a quick solution. Pray for the Holloway family and hope they will hear something (positive) soon

      don’t mind my english.

    92. Bobby Dahl on June 18th, 2005 3:21 pm

      The Dutch system doesn’t regard polygraphs as reliable. If you can fool the initial control questions(your name, where do live, how old are you) for which a baseline is established then the whole test will be deemed inconclusive. The same abnormal reactions to critical incriminating questions will resemble the control questions.

    93. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:28 pm

      bobby – I still say the fault lies with the Aruban way of handling this whole case.

    94. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:28 pm

      Natalee’s own mother said the Joran boy was lying……he’s probably a no-good playboy

    95. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 3:29 pm


      I think you’re putting words in peoples’ mouths. What people (including myself) are saying is that within hours of Natalee’s disappearance, those who were the last to see her had been identified. Their accounts of events were provably false and didn’t make sense. Despite all this, the prime suspects weren’t seriously interrogated or taken into custody until two week later, and their personal effects weren’t searched until a couple of days ago. The investigation is being conducted incompetently. In the US, assuming good police work, this case would have been broken within 48 hours. Assuming bad police work, the investigation would have been bungled, anyway, but at least freedom of the press and media pressure would have unambiguously exposed the incompetence early on. In Aruba, incompetence hides behind official secrecy.

    96. Lucy on June 18th, 2005 3:31 pm

      In case you surface today, read in Fox News that Max Arends has been brought in for questioning. I also read elsewhere that this guy is king of loony and his house is covered with graffitti, so can we safely assume that he is the guy with the flashy, laud van mentioned yesterday?

    97. Dawn on June 18th, 2005 3:31 pm

      To all who are blaming everyone for this tradgedy.
      Sherrifs Deputy: 18 year old graduates move out on their own every day! They are legally responsible for themselves. If they break the law they go to jail! Regaurdless if their parents gave them permission or not, if they chose to go they could. They may have just graduated but at 18 they have the right to make their own desicions. I am not saying that an 18 year olds always make the right ones.

      This is a horrible situation. Blame cannot change what has happened!

    98. Phil on June 18th, 2005 3:31 pm

      The Europeans hate Americans…this is why the Aruban government (basically the Dutch) have shunned the FBI.


      Why else would they not want the best players (the FBI) in the world…

      Why else would let the rich kids go free to clean up their tracks (and please do not give me this tactically BS)…

      Why else do they delay house searches and avoid polygraphs…if the FBI was involed the world would know the truth.



    99. Nona on June 18th, 2005 3:31 pm

      As I said earlier, I have learned so much from this blog. If the US wants to present itself as crime-free we can copy Aruba. Legalize prostitution, gambling, underage drinking, decriminalize drugs, ignore missing persons if a dead body does not appear and send the 3 stooges to do all the investigations so that no one is ever convicted. That should insure that our crime rates would plummet to near zero making us statistically the safest country on EARTH.

    100. HannieC on June 18th, 2005 3:33 pm

      Has anyone an idea why there is so little news on the Kalpoe brothers?
      I hear nothing bur speculations about Joran and he is already crusified by
      most of the people. It seems very strange to me that you hear nothing about
      them and so much on Joran! You hear nothing about any familymembers or friends
      of them.

    101. New Creature on June 18th, 2005 3:36 pm

      Phil- Are you “P” from Riehl World Views’ blog?

    102. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 3:37 pm

      NONA Americans can’t handle legalizing prostitution or lowering the drinking age. Theye’re irresponsible, that’s why we need these laws. For example, ever since America legalized food we became the biggest lardasses on the world!!! We have no self control

    103. Dawn on June 18th, 2005 3:37 pm

      Also I am way over the age of 18 but I do remember what it was like to graduate and feel independent!

    104. Nona on June 18th, 2005 3:38 pm

      Was food ever illegal? Have you seen the thin women in Italy? LOL

    105. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 3:40 pm

      Southern Italians(Neapolitans, Sicilians, Calabrese) are the fat ones. The all moved to New York and New Jersey at the turn of the century. The Northern Italians don’t consider them Italians but loud mouth rolly polies.

    106. Phil on June 18th, 2005 3:46 pm

      No I am not P…

      If you want to blash USA that OK…but it is Aruba we are talking about and it obvious what is going on…

      The USA does not attempt to represent itself as “the crime free vacation capital of the world…

      America has offerred to help in this case and Aruba has pretty much told us to shove it

      That’s fine (Aruba can do what they want) but I suggested that the USA…VACATION AMERICA.

    107. Blackie Lawless on June 18th, 2005 3:50 pm

      Yeah….go to Waikeekee on Oahu, Hawaii or South Beach Miami……almost higher crime rate than Detroit. P..are you kidding me or what????????

    108. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:50 pm

      Jeff Dowder: you obviously don’t know any Italians…I live in NJ, am an Anglo Saxon, and all my closest friends are Italian – many of them THIN and very young looking.

    109. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 3:52 pm

      I find it interesting that the spokesman for the Aruban Government has repeatedly stated on Fox News and elsewhere that the investigation is strictly a police matter, and that the Government has no influence over the police, whatsoever. This seems very strange to me. If the police don’t answer to the Government, how can the people exercise their soverignty over the police? In the US, those in control of the various echelons of government can replace incompetent or corrupt police officials. Is this not the case in Aruba? If not, do the police comprise a government unto themselves, free to investigate, not investigate, bungle, or cover up as they see fit, answering to no one?

    110. Roxx on June 18th, 2005 3:53 pm

      When the FBI agents arrived in Aruba they immediately went to the roulette and blackjack tables, gambling away American tax dollars. Bastards

    111. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 3:54 pm

      Jeff Douwder – You sure that isn’t “Jeff Doubter?” Because you know nothing about Italy – stick to mutantville!

    112. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:55 pm

      I happen to know Leopard Queen! She would do anything to help Natalee’s family as would I

    113. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 3:56 pm

      Scared….really??? thin and young looking? Are they pretty hot? You think they’ll go out with me? I’ll hook up with them as long as they don’t take me to Fire Island.

    114. Phil on June 18th, 2005 3:57 pm

      I am not talking what’s the safest vacation spot and there are many very safe spots in the US…

      But if the Europeans and Arubans want tell us to shove it we are protecting our rich families…I say “see ya”…you are not my friend

    115. Nona on June 18th, 2005 3:58 pm

      My point stand, making everything legal and ignoring things that are illegal then using jokers to investigate the few laws you have does not constitute a true picture of the crime problem in Aruba. It may look nice on the tourist fliers and make people feel good but it does not make it reality.

      Reality is a missing girl and the fact that Aruban polis have been totally clueless as to what to do other than to cover for each other and their friends.

      1. Natalee was reported missing at 10:00-11:00 AM on Monday.
      2. The Polis were told she was last seen with a white local boy named Joran that was known to hang out at C&C and the casinos. The polis made no effort to find Joran to ask what he did with Natalee. (they may have contacted his father to let him know Joran was last seen with a missing girl)
      3. Natalee’s mother showed up in Aruba 13 hours later and found Joran’s last name out from a bartender not the Polis. They claimed not to know who the boy was yet.
      4.The Polis questioned Joran AFTER Natalee’s step-father did.
      5. Joran, Deepak and Satish were believed at face value and released.
      6. Two innocent people were arrested based on the 3 boys lies.
      7. The Polis and tourist industries were hoping to close the case at this point and get back to business as usual. They had not counted on the intellect and perseverence of Beth Holloway Twitty.
      8. The FBI was only watching the investigation until tourism started to drop off severely.

    116. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:58 pm

      We should all say a prayer every time we think of Natalee and if we all do this, God will surely hear & bring closure to her hurting family

    117. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 3:59 pm

      ScaredShitless you are so right!

    118. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 3:59 pm

      Yes, Phil, Bob Grant of WOR radio also said we should pull our vacation dollars out of Aruba or any island and keep our dough in the USA

    119. Dee on June 18th, 2005 3:59 pm

      why thin? nothing to play with-slim you mean!

    120. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:00 pm

      I’m getting support from the ANIMAL KINGDOM!

    121. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 4:00 pm

      LeopardQueen…… I’m like totaly serious, I was out here surfing in Costa Mesa California one day and these Italians that were like totally Shamu-like were throwing a fit because the concession stand didn’t carry strombolis and calzones.

    122. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:00 pm

      Hey, don’t knock it – we are all Animals!

    123. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:00 pm

      Hey, don’t knock it – we are all Animals!

    124. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:01 pm

      Jeff, why dont you find yourself a beached whale or a nice guy on Fire Island

    125. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:02 pm

      Jeff, I think you were jilted by a sexy Sophia Loren (from Naples) Italian!

    126. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 4:03 pm

      Some of those Italians are pretty hot but we don’t have many of them on the west coast

    127. Phil on June 18th, 2005 4:03 pm

      As an ex-New Yorker (and I am watching my Yanks right now) I have not hear that name years…I did like Bob Grant…and he was right on with that statment.

    128. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:03 pm

      Let’s make a bet….this Natalee case doesn’t get solved for several months…then like Laci Peterson, a part of her washes to shore…..God Forbid! If the murderers get away with it in this life, they have a LOT to be afraid of in the next.

    129. Nona on June 18th, 2005 4:03 pm

      My point stands, making everything legal and ignoring things that are illegal then using jokers to investigate the few laws you have does not constitute a true picture of the crime problem in Aruba. It may look nice on the tourist fliers and make people feel good but it does not make it reality.

    130. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:04 pm

      Jeff, why don’t we send the Mafia over to Aruba to solve the myster? Or should I just send them after you? I am Italian American and HOT!

    131. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:05 pm

      PHIL: I worship & adore bob grant! I’m 48 and he’s 79 but I’d marry him in a second

    132. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:05 pm

      oops, excuse the type – that’s “mystery.”

    133. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 4:05 pm

      Nona relax! Aruba’s got some bitchin waves on the north side of the island

    134. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:06 pm

      Leopard Queen did get many proposals from many a male in her day!

    135. Nona on June 18th, 2005 4:06 pm

      What do waves have to do with crime or Natalee?

    136. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:09 pm

      I say we send Bruno from NJ to shake those punks down! He’d get them to talk….Mrs Holloway-Twitty said she KNOWS they know where her daughter is

    137. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 4:09 pm

      Laopardqueen…..wooew easy now. I don’t want any beef with Geatano Badalementi Frankie “Flowers” D’Alfonso, or Anthony “Mad Dog” DiPasquale. Those guys are heavy stuff. I think we should just hook up.

    138. Jeff Dowder on June 18th, 2005 4:12 pm

      Nona…waves bring us together!!! don’t you know that? They ancient Polynesians used to ride the waves and stuff and it’s spirtual and people who surf waves are totally “with it”.

    139. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:15 pm

      Jeff, I have a list of 1,000 or better Hollywood Stars and Show Biz stars that are pure bred Italian or half Italian and none of them are fat – you are all wet. As far as hooking up with someone who hates Italians, I don’t think so. As far as I am concerned there are only 2 kinds of people in this world – Italians and those who want to be!

    140. Phil on June 18th, 2005 4:17 pm

      The ‘boys’ definitively know that ‘s makes me so angry about this case…how evil can you be to hurt this girl and than just sit there and lie…

      What kind of evil lurks in the bars of Aruba and why doesn’t their government want to so the case…

      Oh why not give me the “can’t rush in like a bunch of cowboys” line…or our laws or more civilized than the USA and we do not rush things unless you are poor black security guards then we arrest you without any evidence.

    141. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:18 pm

      Now I see you are an expert on the Polynesians. Let’s get back to the subject at hand – Natalee!
      God help her parents.

    142. GutFeeling on June 18th, 2005 4:26 pm

      Steve I read your post and agree that the odds of her being alive are quite slim. I have thought this for some time based on my gut feeling that Paulu van Der Sloot is involved. I think that as a parent that it would be too much to bear to know that all this foot dragging is jeopardizing Natalee’s survival. But if she was all ready gone when he was allowed in the loop then he will do “whatever it takes” to spare his son.

      Anyone else agree?

    143. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:27 pm

      Mr. Gut Feeling: I agree and so does Leopard Queen

    144. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:28 pm

      However, look at the Elizabeth Smart case…I TRULY thought that 14 yr old girl was dead. I actually screamed in my office the night my mom phoned me to say she was found, alive and well……..I had prayed so hard for the Smart family and I am now praying for the Holloway & Twitty families

    145. Leopardqueen on June 18th, 2005 4:31 pm

      That Joran boy is a bad seed – he is going to Anger Management classes, to no avail – we all know a Leopard cannot change its spots.

    146. Phil on June 18th, 2005 4:34 pm

      This is not the Smart case…she was truly kidnapped from her bedroom…

      This case has drinking, sex, suspects lying equals one thing…they killed her…

      If it was my daughter, I would just wait until they are set free and get “Bruno” to take care of the three of them…

    147. ScaredShitless on June 18th, 2005 4:36 pm

      Good one, Phil! I think “Bruno” could do the job! Yes, but with the Smart case, he could have been a nut job who had her murdered….what were the chances he’d keep her alive & walk around with her in a dirty robe?

    148. Phil on June 18th, 2005 4:42 pm

      Scared…you are right and every one of us would rejoice over such an outcome…

      I want to add that the choice of Bruno is not a slap on my Italians friends…but rather my respect that the Mafia would have gotten to the truth and taken care of the problem immediately…

      Anyone seen Jimmy Hoffa lately? Got to go..the families will be in my prayers as with all of us…

    149. Ted on June 18th, 2005 4:44 pm

      Bruno’s too busy pickpocketing some old lady, stealing cigarettes, or ripping of his uncle playing three card monte

    150. shelly on June 18th, 2005 4:47 pm

      Gutfeeling- I’m with you. I think the father had time to ‘get rid of evidence’ or clean up or something. Aruban authorities have to start giving more information. they must have it all by now!

    151. Ted on June 18th, 2005 4:49 pm

      The Mafia doesn’t exist anymore; the last one sent to jail was Vincent Gigante who hails from the Albert Anastasia era. Why are you idolizing people who shoot people in the head and cut their bodies in peices only to dump their body parts in the Canarsie dump. Great people to investigate the Natalee Holloway disappearance…..

    152. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 4:50 pm


      At this point the culprits and any possible conspirators after the fact are focused exclusively on avoiding prosecution or, barring that, avoiding conviction. Had Natalee died the night she disappeared, the guilty parties would have applied their energies to disposing of her body, destroying evidence, and confusing the facts available to investigators. Had Natalee not been killed that night but, rather, abducted, I tend to believe that she would have since been killed to protect the culprits. In either case, the poor girl is most likely dead, and the criminal investigation was so badly bungled from the start that a successful prosecution is far from certain at this point. Assuming Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers are guilty, as appears likely, I’m assuming their tactic from this point forward will be to maintain their silence. There’s no way for them to talk their way out of it at this point, anyway, so why should they even make an attempt? My estimate of the situation is that assuming no forensic evidence is recovered, and assuming the boys maintain their silence, there will be no prosecution. Dutch law reportedly provides for the suspects automatically being freed after somthing like 116 days, which is how I see this thing ending right now, given the assumptions already mentioned. It didn’t have to be this way. Had the authorities competently and agressively pursued the case from the beginning, it would have been conclusively solved, most likely within the first 48 hours.

    153. bob on June 18th, 2005 4:55 pm

      The Aruban Gov. is trying to stall hopiping it will go away, remember Granada fools

    154. GameBred on June 18th, 2005 4:56 pm

      Two Americans were just found shot to death in the Virgin Islands

    155. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 4:57 pm

      Phil makes an interesting point. Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes will be very vulnerable once they’re set free. Aruba is a small place, and easy to get to. Moreover, the police department is completely incompetent and incapable of protecting anyone, let alone people with so many potential enemies. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to find, at some point in the future, that each of these punks wound up “stealing more chain than he can swim with.”

    156. GutFeeling on June 18th, 2005 5:11 pm

      Shelly I agree with you. I hold hope that the investigators have more evidence than they are sharing with the media. Surely they know and have know for quite some time
      what happened and just need to gather some evidence to formulate a case that will assure a conviction and to make sure that they get everybody involved.

    157. Sad in Mt. Brook on June 18th, 2005 5:19 pm

      To Deputy: Just to try and help you understand what these MT. Brook kids are like (don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they’re better than kids from any where else)…but these kids are, as a rule, VERY GOOD KIDS. They’re not only smart (some of the highest test scores in state of AL and Southeast), but they are alturistic…just about all of them donate huge amounts of service hours (80 to 100 hours or more) to the communties surrounding Mt. Brook. And if they are old enough to be sent to Iraq or overseas to fight a war, or to go across the country to accept a job, or to go to college, then as a parent, you have to accept that they are old enough to go on a trip alone.

      Granted, we, as a group, should have been told by the travel agency a full disclousure of what goes on in Aruba. All that was said in the meeting was that 18 is the leagal drinking age in Aruba. We were told that the chaperones were there to help in case of an emergency, not to babysit. But, having said that, I do not think there was a lot of free sex and drugs on this trip amongst THESE kids. I think they did drink and party and have fun…until Natalee was discovered missing.

      This whole thing has been a very unfortunate conglomeration of less than ideal choices and decisions on everyone’s part. But there is no going back; we must look forward and do better in the future. And we must demand that evey effort is made to find Natalee. My suggestion to anyone planning such a trip in the future is to locate it within the states, because if a tragedy does occur, you don’t have so many obstacles to overcome like language and customs and different justice system and procedures.

    158. taj mahal on June 18th, 2005 5:19 pm


      that first 48hrs was most took up to six days before intensive, real investigating took place. Assuming the kidnapping scenario, then yes…the sex network never would have imagined this would blowup to a national news story..I too believe NH is now dead and the body literally gone. It would be surprising if the captors believe they could ride out this storm. The stakes are too high for their entire operation to have let her live.

    159. GutFeeling on June 18th, 2005 5:35 pm

      I really never bought the sex trade idea. But I do agree that the first 48 hours was critical. Perhaps there is more forensic evidence than we know about.

      For those of you who believe that Mr. van Der Sloot is involved at what time do you think he became aware of the situation, before or after 6:30 am the next morning?

    160. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 5:40 pm

      I believe Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers went out the evening of Natalee’s disappearance with the intention to commit a crime. They might have gone out specifically looking for her, or she might have been a target of opportunity. In either case, I believe they acted with malice aforethought.

    161. scc on June 18th, 2005 5:43 pm

      ScaredShitless I think you should do yourself a favor and stop insulting the arubian people and calling them all kinds on names, the only one that seems ignorant right now is you

    162. GutFeeling on June 18th, 2005 5:44 pm

      Sorry, I agree. I meant Paulu van Der Sloot the father.

    163. lisabobeesa on June 18th, 2005 5:45 pm

      have any of teh arubans been on and if so did they comment on this Croes fellow?

    164. shelly on June 18th, 2005 5:46 pm

      If she was kidnapped shes not on the island anymore. maybe they took her out to sea and that is why they have the 4th guy in custody. I can’t believe letting the family know what is going on in would the investigation. Don’t they have a right to know about their daughter’s disappearance?

    165. lisabobeesa on June 18th, 2005 5:46 pm

      i ehard some talk on tv last night about mine shafts that had been abandoned..does anyone know what this was about? did they think she was in one of them?

    166. sandy m on June 18th, 2005 5:49 pm

      to sad in mtn. brook
      did anyone ask the girls in the room with natalee why they waited so long to tell someone she was missing. this is the one thing i can not understand as a couple of hours could make a big difference

    167. Nona on June 18th, 2005 6:07 pm

      Sandy M,
      I have continually asked why the Aruban police did not look for the white male local named Joran that was reported to be the last person seen just outside C&C and also known to hang out in the casinos AND was confirmed to be the LAST person to see her alive when she was reported missing to the police at 1030 AM?
      Why did Natalee’s mother have to find out Joran’s last name from a bartender? The police could not figure it out in 13 hours, but she managed to get it in a matter of minutes. Who is the cop there?

    168. Jerry on June 18th, 2005 6:11 pm

      Yea I was wondering the same thing, One girl said that they thought she might have selpt in one of the other rooms with the other girls and didnt think anything of it.

    169. Jerry on June 18th, 2005 6:12 pm

      I with Becky lets nuke Aruba and Holland Ha Ha!

    170. Jerry on June 18th, 2005 6:18 pm

      Someone said eariler Holloways and Twittys should get some other investigative team on this and I also said earlier Closure4U investigations Annette Martin (psychic deticitive) I saw her on Psychic Detictives on NBC . She has a site on the internet I called her office but she has to be contacted by the police or someone in the family. I do not know what she charges.

    171. Hello Kitty on June 18th, 2005 6:20 pm
    172. Sad in Mt. Brook on June 18th, 2005 6:44 pm

      to sandym: There was a really close, tight group of girls on the trip, and her roomates thought Natalee was just crashing in one of the other rooms that night or was still out with others in the group in the lobby or by pool. However, I know her roomates (watched them grow up) and they are decent girls and I have heard (only heard, not talked to them myself) that at least one of them is really suffering and close to having a mental breakdown over this. It was just a situation where they were trusting that she was with the other girls because they knew Natalee’s character and probably never in their wildest imaginings could have thought something so evil could have happended to someone like her. It’s tragic that they didn’t double-check on her, but it wouldn’t have prevented whatever happened to her. It would have just bought more quick reaction time. I agree that it seems logical that they would have called around to check on her, but in reality, from what I can gather, there were so many kids hanging out in the lobby and around the pool that there probably wouldn’t have been anyone too much in the rooms to contact. It seems many of the kids stayed up most of that last night talking and hanging out, asi t was their last night together.

    173. sandy m on June 18th, 2005 7:03 pm

      sad in mtn. brook: i know how kids are and we were just like that when we grew up–i have a 17 yr old and sometimes i wonder if all i teach her reaches her brain. ha. she is also an a student and very good girl, but i don’t know what i would do if i was in natalee’s parents place. did you find out if any of the girls hung out with joran and natalee to know how he treated her?

    174. curious on June 18th, 2005 7:08 pm

      To Deputy: My husband back in 1974 went on a cruise with friends to the Bahamas. Chaperones were there to check on them of they were sick, etc. He never saw them until they came back. I went to Daytona Beach and I had extremely strick parents. My husband and I took my daughter and her friend on a cruise for HS graduation, and they still could have been raped, thrown overboard or anything else anyone wanted to do, even though we called and caught up with them every hour. Things just happen. My own grandmother was robbed, raped and beaten in her own home and she never did anything wrong. It involved drugs. Someone wanted money for them. Maybe these boys were high and very immoral. She was just naive and they pounced on her.

    175. BamaRes on June 18th, 2005 7:18 pm

      Sad in Mt Brook is not really in touch with the reputation that the kids from those affluent areas have in the rest of the state of Alabama. That may be the reputation that they think they have. Yes, they do all the “right” things, community service, etc. But they are brought up that appearances are what matters. They have double lives, big into recreational drugs, free sex, and alcohol, etc. They come here to the University of AL and join the “best” sororities and fraternities and continue their wild, free live style. It’s just common knowledge and until people like Sad in Mt Brook admit it, things won’t get any better.

    176. tuberide on June 18th, 2005 7:31 pm

      any spanish or portuguese speakers listening to (webcast of local Aruba radio)?

      They are having a discussion re: ecstasy and other drugs as well as related sexual assaults in the toursit areas near the hotels….

    177. tuberide on June 18th, 2005 7:32 pm

      unfortunatley, i only understand every other word :/

    178. new to bham on June 18th, 2005 7:33 pm

      Why is these so much hatred of Mountain Brook? Since being here I have heard “oh those snobs in Mt.Brook” or “I just can’t stand those brookies” Why can’t we all just get along? Yes, rich kids party, do drugs, drink, etc, but I came from a small town in northern state and the same things happened there also. It’s everywhere I am afraid.

    179. sandy m on June 18th, 2005 7:39 pm

      my husband and i went on cruises while our kids were younger and i went back to the room for the camera and my daughter about 4 at the time stayed with my husband. she wanted to ride on the elevator and he let her. when i came back and the elevator door opened she wasn’t there. i went crazy looking along with my husband and other 2 kids. the lady across the hall from our room said she had come to the room and we weren’t there so the lady took her to the desk and when i went to the desk to get them to announce her name, i heard her. i was terrified but my husband thought we were on a ship and what could happen to her there. there are so many times we think after the fact not because we are careless but because we haven’t experienced a situation etc.
      raising children, there are always dangerous times in their lives and we parents are lucky when nothing bad happens to them now a days because the world is not like it used to be where people can be trusted and i think it all boils down to drugs. i haven’t had to deal with that, but i know they are out there and it terrifies me every time my daughter leaves the house because of ride by shootings etc. no matter where you live.
      around the colleges the date rape drug is there and you never know how funny someone thinks it would be to give a good girl the drug or whatever their reason, but no matter how much i warn my daughter i am still terrified she will not be careful that one time although she says she is. we didn’t have all this when we grew up and we could go out and have good clean fun–kids now a days don’t have that luxury

    180. sandy m on June 18th, 2005 7:46 pm

      i hope all the kids do think about this and maybe when the case is solved there will be answers. i feel for the kids that were with natalee and i know they must be going through a lot. i know all of us have preached a lot to our kids lately reminding them of everything we can. hopefully something will turn up soon and hopefully natalee will be alive–miracles do happen.

    181. Nona on June 18th, 2005 7:54 pm

      New to bham it is not hatred, you can’t hate people you do not know. It is jealousy.

    182. BamaRes on June 18th, 2005 8:10 pm

      Nona – even though you may not want to admit it it’s not due to jealousy, but rather disgust with the actions of typical of a Mtn Brook youth. Jealousy is a cop-out excuse of someone who is unwilling to look at the true picture.

    183. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 8:22 pm

      Guess if you all watch Fox they just said there was a beheading yesterday in that OH SO SAFE PLACE of Aruba..They say its not connected at all to the Holloway case..but, who knows.

    184. Blackspeare on June 18th, 2005 8:26 pm

      Sandy M is right on. My wife and I raised two girls and things are very much different these days. There is a general lack of civility and morality across all nations not just the USA. We all see politicial, businessman. professionals taking advantage of their position and indulging in corruption and when caught all they get is veritable slap on the wrist. Just recently, two Tyco execs were convicted, but will the punishment fit the crime. They absconded with millions of dollars. Lets see what they get if its just 4 years at Allenwood prison—-then ask yourself would you spend four years in a barracks-like camp for $20 million and where conjugal visits are allowed. Not bad sentence for $5 million a year. Antway, its things like this that eat at morality and reward corruption.

    185. Knear @wnc on June 18th, 2005 8:26 pm

      The news tonite stated a man was found decapitated and mutilated in a cematery in Aruba. No connection to Natalees disappearance. That is a very brutal crime.

      Quick question, “faux” (news) was stated a day or two ago that in the Netherlands, if there is no body found, there is no crime …… is this true?

    186. Snippy on June 18th, 2005 8:26 pm

      Finally found something about the about it here…

    187. tuberide on June 18th, 2005 8:43 pm

      someone gets their head chopped, then dumped in a cemetary and another guy is missing on an island of 70,000 and already the word is that it is not related to the NH case???? sounds a little bit too coincidental to me..

      also the missing guy drove a pick-up , which they have found — wasnt someone from the island on here yesterday talking about a guy with a blue pick-up? maybe a friend of Steve Croes?

    188. Fugazi on June 18th, 2005 8:52 pm
    189. Fugazi on June 18th, 2005 8:56 pm

      White American women are among the foreign women forced into prostitution in Japan. One Japanese organized crime syndicate uses West Coast talent agencies to place advertisements to lure these women to Japan. The agencies advertise jobs of seemingly legitimate productions and shows in Japan. Some of the women who respond to the advertisement are selected, and they are contacted by an “agent”. They are promised a specific salary, told where and when they will be performing in Japan, and given pre-paid plane tickets. However, upon arrival, the women are met by a different agent, who informs them that he has bought their contracts from their former “agent”. The women’s passports and other identification documents are taken away, and they are forced to work as prostitutes. Fn30 Unfortunately many Americans are unaware of this growing problem.

    190. Corsair on June 18th, 2005 9:07 pm

      I am an American; where’s the buffet line…I’m hungry all the time. Boycott Aruba because they don’t serve Fried Chicken and custard pie. How there they?

    191. Peter on June 18th, 2005 9:47 pm

      What is this Aruba is currently deploying every asset it has to the investigation? If so, why has Natalee not been found??

      Taking a hammer and smashing one of the toes of ONE of these cowards would lead them straight to Natallee’s location VERY QUICKLY, within 30 seconds I would imagine.

      With the Dutch authorities M.O. of complete silence as to their investigative methods, no one should bat an eyelid, except the guilty.


    192. Dutchboy Paint on June 18th, 2005 9:49 pm

      Lighten up Peter!

    193. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 18th, 2005 9:53 pm

      To: Sad in Mt. Brook

      I read your last post to me and it made me think. Thank you for taking the time to write it. I’ll back-off.

      The Deputy

    194. SteveDinMD on June 18th, 2005 10:00 pm

      I find it quite interesting that a headless body was found in Aruba today. If there was no attempt to conceal or otherwise dispose of the headless torso, the circumstances would strongly imply some sort of gang or syndicate killing. Decapitation and other forms of mutilation are often combined with murder to “send messages” from organized crime groups. The most obvious message would be: “This is no accident or random act of violence. This person was deliberately killed for a reason, and the mutilated body has been put on display to serve as a warning to those who would follow in the footsteps of the deceased.”

    195. new to bham on June 18th, 2005 10:06 pm

      They need to start bringing up the Miss USA contestant who was supposedly taken to a party and then kidnapped and taken to the middle east and held of over a year. She was supposely held to be a wife of one of the rich sheiks and she wasn’t the only girl held against her will. Her family and friends finally found a way to get her out. I wish they would bring this up again in the news. This happened about 5 or more years ago. Condi Rice just brought up the sex slave trade and sanctions against these countries that continue to do this.

    196. DutchPaint Boy on June 18th, 2005 10:09 pm

      I don’t believe it

    197. new to bham on June 18th, 2005 10:33 pm

      Tell current affair about it because they reported it.

    198. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 10:36 pm

      Has anyone taken note of Hubert Diel on Fox News?
      He was following a boat possibly containig Natalee?
      Is Paul VanDerSloot being questioned at this moment?
      Very interesting. Things need to get moving here.

    199. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 10:38 pm

      As always, people are reluctant to get involved or stick their necks out, someone needs to step up to the plate and get some resolution here, for the sake of what is just and good.

    200. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 10:45 pm

      Trust is important when dealing with people, let alone people who are foreign to us: American, Dutch, Aruban, etc. However, honesty and justice (forthright) are the main ingredients enabling people to travel to other lands. If they trust they will be safe and respected as human beings, they will venture off to foreign lands and allow their children to do so. A lack of trust and respect will negatively affect tourism.

    201. Get Real on June 18th, 2005 11:03 pm

      Who do some people believe that there’s some sinister consiparacy unfolding to cover up and protect the suspects. Do you honestly believe that these three young punks posses the criminal genius to concoct some nefarious criminal plan? Get real people! The FBI is in Aruba, the world media is watching; use your brains people. All eyes are on them. The same individuals who believe that there’s cover up taking place tend to also believe in aliens spacecraft being kept over at area 51 in Nevada.

    202. Kateyes on June 18th, 2005 11:08 pm

      Don’t know if any of you saw the following things on Fox, yesterday and today. Yesterday afternoon, the Fox reporter was interviewing Rebuen Vanderberg, and he was asked about Paulus Van der sloot’s request to visit his son. He explained that he had been denied this request, had then been allowed by the judge to see his son once, yesterday, but that further visits have been denied by the court. The reporter asked Reuben whether visiting a minor by the parent was usually allowed and he answered that ” yes, if the person arrested is under 18, visits are allowed.” He was then asked why would visits be denied. I am sure without thinking too much first, Reuben answered that it could be because there was suspicion of involvement or at least knowledge on the father’s part.

      Tonight, about 9:30, the Fox reporter took a call from someone who said he was in a car following another car, which reportedly had Natalee in it, and on the way to Columbia. This was not reported on again. Then, around 10pm it was announced that Paulus Van der Sloot was in police custody and being questioned. As I am writing this, it was announced that he has been released after 4 plus hours of questioning. I wonder if Joran had a bad gambling habait, acquired a gambling debt, and was being pressured to pay up. Then, someone suggested a way for him to cancel his debt – provide an American girl to them to be sold into prostitution. Somehow, his father becomes involved. And Natalee disappears!!!! Who knows – at this point, nothing would surprise me.

    203. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 11:10 pm

      Get Real, conspiracy?? I’d say there’s a crime lurking. Aliens? ??That came from your brain, no one here made that giant leap.
      Regardless, pressure is required to get to the truth, whether there is a murder, accidental death, human trafficking, etc.

    204. I wonder why on June 18th, 2005 11:11 pm

      Ok, I haven’t read anything about this because there is just way too much to be read, but I am wondering if because Natalee is a US citizen if the Bush can give some kind of orders to let the United States take over the investigation…..maybe overthow them, he’s done it before, not much difference. I haven’t heard GWBush say a word about this. Has anyone else? It should be a law that if someone from the US is out of the country we should have the right to step in and take care of our families??? right? does anyone else agree that we should be able to do this. However Aruba has really bothched this thing up. I am not saying it was on purpose, I have no clue. I don’t think they have enough experiance in dealing with situations such as this. Unfortantly America does. Thats really sad. I wish there was more we could do. Things normally don’t get to me but his just kills my heart. I have a daughter the same age as Natalee and it really scares the Hell out of me.

    205. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 11:18 pm

      We can not overpower other sovereignties; just as they can’t do it to us. We are a democratic society and can not behave differently, no matter how much we wish we could use our power to protect , rescue, or solve.

    206. I wonder why on June 18th, 2005 11:23 pm

      I understand that, however I recall an artical in National Geographic years and years ago about somone who came to America (can’t remember where they were from) and was found murdered. The country they came from was not satisfied with the investigation and sent over their own investigators who actully cracked the case. Now I don’t know if that is because we are so giving to other countries that we would allow that to happen out of the goodness of our hearts, or if there is somethng written in our judical system that has to allow that.

    207. loraann on June 18th, 2005 11:24 pm

      I am new to this board but I have a comment about the Holloway case. For those people who blame the parents for this whole tragedy, shame on you! It is NOT the parents fault that this terrible thing happened. How many parents send their children away to college knowing of the parties and situations they will be faced with? 18 is an age that is responsible enough to make these decisions on their own. While I feel for her family and for her, Natalee made an irreversible bad decision when she left the club with three men she didn’t know. This poor judgement could have possibly cost her her life. Natalee was responsible for her own decisions. That is the purpose of a senior trip, to begin one’s independence, or adulthood.

    208. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 11:36 pm

      We have free will, therefore we make choices. Parents do not own their children; they do the best they can to raise them to become independent. 18 year olds, by nature, are feircely independent . Unfortunately, they are not equpped to deal with evil when confronted.
      Natalee is in God’s hands. We can only pray that she is safe and/or at peace.

    209. Concerned on June 18th, 2005 11:39 pm

      Either way, she needs to go home with her family.
      Blame does no good. It clouds the issue at hand.
      Many, many parents and kids are learning from this horrible situation :-(

    210. shelly on June 18th, 2005 11:46 pm

      I saw a clip with the step father talking to Greta of Faux news. He now won’t discuss his feelings about Joron and he says there is little to no evidence so far in the case.

    211. Peter on June 19th, 2005 12:28 am

      DutchBoy Paint,

      Yeah. Lighten up . . . No big deal . . . It’s not your daughter that disappeared after driving away by three local Aruban guys and not being heard from again. No big deal! Lighten up. Right?

      Try a litte outrage.

    212. George Vreeland Hill on June 19th, 2005 12:40 am

      Dear Natalee:
      You are the love, hope, and dream of us all.
      We carry you in our hearts, and wait for your return.
      Never give up, and always remember…..
      Today is the beginning, of a better tomorrow!
      George Vreeland Hill
      PS: There is a Yahoo group for you.
      Just think of all the new friends you have!!

    213. Merlin on June 19th, 2005 1:10 am

      I am reading the tripadvisor/aruba boards and everyone that has been to Aruba and been to Carlos & Charlie’s has said what a shady place it is and how local men were extrememly pushy and interested in young girls. There’s also lots of talk of Natalie being taken to Venzuela, 19 miles away.

    214. Jenn on June 19th, 2005 1:17 am

      Someone mentioned that these kids were getting robbed form the minute they got there, such as sandals and cameras. I went to Aruba last year and left my stuff sitting all along on the beach for over an hour and came back to it and no one had even touched it. I left about $15 in a bag, my car keys, my room key. I never once had a problem with theft on the island. So unless Aruba has changed, theft is not a huge issue on this island. There is always some theft everywhere, but there isn’t a lot there.

      And to the people who say we are already saying these kids are guilty-well let’s look at what we know. These three left the bar with her while she was intoxicated, they originally said they dropped her off at her hotel, then two weeks later they change their stories. What is the need to lie? People who lie ALWAYS have something to hide-and that is because the truth will get them in to trouble. Not to mention Joran had an encounter with Natalee’s mother and he was arrogant and condescending to her, is this the way he should be acting to her? Not that it makes him guilty, but a guy who spent time with this girl should be concerned and show compassion to her mother. Mrs. Twitty is going through extreme pain right now not knowing where her daughter is and this punk more or less acts rude to her. At the very least he is just a big LOSER!

    215. Jenn on June 19th, 2005 1:18 am

      Also, I really hope she hasn’t been taken off the island to Venezuela-I feel if she has been take there they will never get her back! I just don’t know how they will be able to get her back at that point.

    216. DavidProfiler on June 19th, 2005 1:28 am

      This just does not fit the date rape gone bad pattern. The truth when it surfaces will bear this out.

    217. SteveDinMD on June 19th, 2005 1:32 am

      I think it fits the “date rape gone bad” pattern precisely. Why do you think otherwise?

    218. DavidProfiler on June 19th, 2005 1:35 am

      No body. No forensic proof of the rape. No forensic proof of the killing.
      Now you can say well we dont know these things, yet, that the authorities may have such proof…….to which I say no they dont. Not yet, or there would be charges, instead they are bringing in new suspects every day.

    219. Peter on June 19th, 2005 1:39 am


      What pattern does this fit??

    220. DavidProfiler on June 19th, 2005 1:43 am

      An accidental drowning, or a kidnapping would be my two bets. The apparent lack of forensic evidences leads me away from the date rape murder pattern.

    221. SteveDinMD on June 19th, 2005 1:43 am

      What follows is a repost that sums up my sense of what happened the night of Natalee’s disappearance. That no body has been recovered is not very illuminating since the girl is almost assuredly dead, anyway. It was probably well disposed of. Lord knows the suspects had long enough to take care of that before being detained. As for the lack of forensic evidence, that’s explained below.


      I’ve been giving some thought into what actually happened after Natalee left the bar with Joran and the brothers. Given how Natalee apparently disappeared while in the “care” of these three, I believe it reasonable to assume that it was a case of premeditated rape. Intentional murder seems less likely. That sort of crime would be quite unusual for Aruba to begin with, and would seem to be especially senseless in the current context. The three boys, given their tender years, would presumably take far more “pleasure” in raping a beautiful young girl than in killing her. If well executed, it would also be rather unlikely that they would ever be prosecuted for the rape, whereas murder would be a far more serious matter. In any event, look what happened in the aftermath of Natalee’s disappearance. The boys are in custody as the prime suspects. Believe me; this is NOT the way they would have preferred things to turn out.

      Now, assuming we’re dealing with a premeditated rape, how could they be expected to go about committing the crime? Use of a date rape drug would be the likeliest means. It would put the girl in a highly suggestive state of mind, and eliminate any need to snatch her off the street, kicking and screaming. They could subtlely and quietly herd her into the back seat of their conveniently placed car. What then? They would need to whisk the victim to a safe, secluded place to commit the act. Such place, mind you, would have to have absolutely NO connection to the perpetrators. Personal apartments and the like would be out of the question. Forensic examination would be too likely to yield evidence of the crime, and thereby associate it with the apartment’s owner/occupant. I’m thinking an out of the way outdoor site, or perhaps an abandoned building would be the preferred venue.

      Safe from onlookders, and with the girl unconscious, they could afford to take their time, raping her repeatedly to sate their sick appetites. To avoid leaving DNA evidence, they would use condoms. After they finished, what then? There would be no need to kill the girl. Unconscious through the whole thing, she would make a poor witness, anyway, and the alternative of a dead/missing tourist would be a tremdous liability, as we’ve seen. The next logical course for the rapists would be to reintroduce the victim to her party, but in a way that could conceivably account for her missing time — and in a way that tends to fix blame on the victim, herself.

      The boys would need to dump Natalee, still unconscious, strategically near her hotel, yet at a discrete distance to avoid being seen. I’m thinking the overgrown area near the Mariott would fit the bill. Why there? After dumping her, the boys would have perhaps several hours to make good their getaway before Natalee would come to, by which time they would have established their alibis and coordinated their stories. Meanwhile, Natalee could be expected to stumble the short way back to the HI, an apparent “victim” of nothing more serious than a night of excessive drinking. With her flight leaving imminently, she would most likely get on the plane and return to Alabama, never to cause trouble for Joran and the brothers.

      Even if she were to miss her flight and call the police, there’d be nothing to go on. With no semen on vaginal swabs, there would be no way to establish that a rape had ever been committed. If the police were to question the boys, there would be no way to establish any timeline. Natalee wouldn’t know where she had been, nor how long she had been out. The place where they dumped her would yield no forensic evidence because the rape wouldn’t have been committed there, and the police wouldn’t know where to find the actual crime scene. If pressed, the boys would say that they took her straight back to the HI. They’d say the girl was very drunk, got belligerent, and bolted from the car in the middle of the parking lot, heading toward the lobby. Thoroughly dissed, the boys would claim that they immediately drove off, and didn’t see where Natalee went from there. Full of plausible deniability, the boys would walk, and the police would conclude that a young girl simply passed out drunk near her hotel, not much worse the wear. The only problem is that “something bad happened,” and Natalle didn’t make it. Perhaps it was an OD, alcohol poisoning, an accident, or maybe even unexpected violence. We might never know.

      Listening to the stories the boys told police, and the story Depak told Micky John, I see all the elements of the above hypothetical scenario. Not knowing what else to do, I’m guessing the boys decided to essentially stick with the original story that they planned. The only variations I can see are the lame attempts reported in the press — first by all three boys, then by the two brothers, then by Joran — to make it seem as though someone else had been the last to see Natalee alive. These guys are so obviously guilty that any minimally trained investigator could have been expected to definitively solve the case in 48 to 72 hours.

    222. DavidProfiler on June 19th, 2005 1:45 am

      These three youths had all be partying down and its just unrealistic to think they could have disposed of NH without leaving a trail.

    223. Peter on June 19th, 2005 1:46 am

      No body. No forensic proof of the rape. No forensic proof of the killing.

      And no Natalee.

      This isn’t a Jennifer Wilbanks scenario where she could take off to Arizona. Where is she going to go? I think she was set up. She mingles with three guys in the bar, one of whom she had known previously a couple of days before. They popped something in her drink to lighten her head. Led her out to the car and took off with her. Then they covered evidence, for good. And yeah, they know where she is.

    224. Peter on June 19th, 2005 1:53 am


      I think you’re on track, but what of the fact that she is no where. Something went wrong and they had take care of it.

    225. DavidProfiler on June 19th, 2005 1:54 am

      Where do you think they hid her body MD and Peter?

    226. ztriggz on June 19th, 2005 1:57 am

      Wow theres alot of heavy history to this quiet little island:

      found much info while looking up Paolo Cuntrera a previous and
      possible current owner of the Holiday Inn Casino

      this stuff is making me more ill by the minute,
      not looking good for thier future in american tourism…
      it’s becoming very clear why the DEA and FBI were on the scene so quickly.

    227. observer on June 19th, 2005 2:16 am

      Where is the body? Probably out in the deep ocean, a shark cove or taken to a neighboring island.

      I agree that the human trafficking possibility is not likely at all, b/c this is different from the trend of such crimes. Would there not be cell phone records to these traffickers throughout these days, including right after they left the bar that night.

      Juron is the main culprit, and the 2 brothers are accessories after the fact. If the brothers were the main culprit, Juron would have turned them in b/c it seems like his family has more relative power than theirs in Aruba. Because Juron committed the crime, he has no choice but to get the brothers to cooperate (to cover the brothers’ participation, but more importantly, to protect Juron).

      Someone will take the fall here and be convicted. There is way too much international exposure for Aruba to simply let these kids walk.

      Any response?

    228. Peter on June 19th, 2005 2:21 am

      Buried. Either at sea or in a shallow grave.

    229. ztriggz on June 19th, 2005 2:24 am

      hmm i posted some links and got moderated heh
      didn’t even use any bad words ;)

      its possible they took her to a party house or crack house as was
      mentioned by one of the brothers. and they left her there…
      anything could have happened, only those involved know for sure :(

    230. Peter on June 19th, 2005 2:25 am

      This is one time I wouldn’t mind being wrong. The thought of those three psychopaths just waiting for Natalee’s moment to come where they slipped her something so they could gang rape her makes my skin go cold.

      Wonder why they’re not smiling now.

    231. SteveDinMD on June 19th, 2005 2:27 am

      First, to answer Profiler, I’d have to guess that Natalee’s body was dumped in the ocean. The suspects had over a week to clean up evidence or elist others to assist them before being taken into custody. Additionally, the fourth suspect, a 26 year old friend of Joran’s arrested the other day, works on an excursion boat. He might have assisted in disposing of the body at sea. This is just a guess; I could be wrong.

      Second, to Peter, I’m not certain there will be a conviction, or even a prosecution. If the suspects have clammed up, refusing to answer more questions, and if there has been no physical evidence discovered, not to mention no body, I’m not sure what the prosecutor’s can go on. They might have to release everyone from custody once the 116 (or whatever number) days have elapsed.

      Off to bed.

    232. sandy m on June 19th, 2005 3:01 am

      if joran is such a player, why would he need to give someone the date rape drug?
      Do you honestly think someone could call a friend to dispose of a dead body and they would say ok, most likely they would stay as far away as they could from that situation.
      are joran and the two brothers that smart to be able to dispose of a body and leave absolutely no trail whatsoever?
      say they all went out on the boat for a moonlight swim and something bad happened–don’t you think it would have been told since that was accidental?
      i think whatever happened is completely different that everyone is thinking, but i have no idea what could have happened unless maybe someone did help natalee get up after she stumbled and maybe they have her and now are afraid to let her go or maybe someone did take her off somewhere and that is why there is no evidence anywhere.
      have the police in venezeula been notified to be on the look-out just in case?

    233. sandy m on June 19th, 2005 3:21 am

      another thought==if joran has never been in trouble before other than normal guy episodes as fighting etc. and is from a rich or well to do family and has had it easy all his life, how can he stand the pressure of all this without breaking down and telling what he knows? Either he doesn’t know what happened to natalee or is afraid for his life or his family’s?
      is joran the only one beth h. twitty talked to or did she talk to the brothers?
      could joran have gotten “upidy” with her because she demanded to know where her daughter was or got up in his face because her daughter is missing as would any mother ? a lot of times things are misinterpreted and someone may lash out not because they don’t feel bad for a person but because they are scared or have no information to give and no one believes them.

    234. Omega on June 19th, 2005 8:48 am

      The Aruba Tradewinds Times
      From Colorado Point to the California Lighthouse


      The Intelligence Service of Venezuela (DAS) has notified Aruban
      authorities that a group of Colombians have flown via Venezuela
      to Aruba with the mission of assassinating the Minister of Justice
      Rudy Croes. Rudy Croes has received numerous threats
      ever since he fulfilled the function of Minister Justice in 2001 with
      his very aggressive fight against drug trafficking and illegals.

      It appears that Aruba has become very difficult to serve as a hub
      for drug trafficking and the amount of illegals caught have dropped
      dramatically. Numerous projects have helped secured Aruba from drug
      trafficking and illegals including two on land radars, daily
      helicopter patrol and coast surveillance.

      Rudy Croes who already has security guards is now under increased
      security. The men protecting his life are well trained in case
      of any event. The family of Rudy Croes is also protected.

      You can contact Eddy Ramou at

    235. Kateyes on June 19th, 2005 1:28 pm

      The more I read and research this tragedy, the more confused things seem to be. I change my opinion from a murder to a sex-slave kidnapping as often as my teenage daughters change their clothes! (Pretty often). Anyway, some thoghts: Natalee’s stepfather told Fox on Friday that he had initially been unhappy with the Arubian Police force but was now satisified that they were working diligently and making progress. He added that “This thing is so big, that it caught Aruba by surprise”. What is “this thing”??? Surely, a date-rape gone bad/murder is a horrible, but would more likely be an uncommon incident, and I doubt would be described as “so big”. Also, the elder Van der Sloot is a high-ranking judicial official (studying to be a judge). That really makes me suspicious – maybe he used hishigh-ranking position to assist the drug lords and other high crime rollers, to get away with their crimes. For a price, I am sure. One of the reporters stated that the elder Van der Sloot’s salary would be about $75k, and the average Arubian earns about $22k. By American standards, $75k is not really all that much. By Arubian standards, $75k is probably enough to classify such people as “rich.” But, if elder Van der Sloot has a penchant for lavish lifestyle, gambles a lot, etc, that $75 may not be nearly enough. So, he uses his high-ranking judicial position corruptly, and to augment his income.

      Now, suppose that Joran knows, or doesn’t know, anythign about his father’s connections, or dirty business dealings. But, he does know drug dealers, and knows how to get whatever he wants. He goes to one, gets the drugs he wants, and gets the date rape drug for Natalee. He knows she is going to Carlos NCharlies, and goes there with the brothers to meet up with her. He slips the drug into her drink while talking to her, etc. They leave together, with the excuse that they will drive her by the lighthouse for a short rendevous with Joran, and then back to the Hotel. But, she has a bad reaction to the drug – could even be an anaphylactic reaction where he airways swell and she has a respiratory arrest and dies. Now they panick. Joran calls his father who helps in the disposal of the body. I am not so sure that the DJ took out the party boat especially for this, because I don’t know if he has access to the boat when he is not officially at work. None the less, the drug has come from some of the dealers protected by his father. Now, if his father, or him, or the brothers reveal the source of the drug, then his father, and all of the drug dealers he protects and helps through his position, are exposed. This would be a very big thing. And it would also explain why the father is so determined to speak with the son in prison. Just some thought I have. Even if she was abducted for sex-slave trade, I doubt she would still be alive. The search for her is too intense and whoever had her would have killed her and thrown her into the ocean. Horrible, but that is how those people operate. I am so sick by this as my husband and I honeymooned in Aruba (22 years ago) and stayed in that same Holiday Inn. My 18 year old daughter just graduated high school and will be a freshman at the University of Alabama, so Natalee would have been a classmate. Natalee truly has become everyone’s daughter and she and her family are in my thoughts and prayers.

    236. Peter on June 19th, 2005 1:46 pm

      It has been my question all along:

      What does it take to break a 17 year old suspect in Aruba?

      A candy bar?

      Seems to me that these cops are weak and too laid back. These punks know they’re guilty of Natalee’s disapperance and the cops know it, but they DON’T KNOW HOW TO GET IT OUT OF THEM. I would be very happy to see Aruba get boycotted. Let their American dollars dry up and perhaps that will give the cops a little incentive to develop a killer instinct.

    237. Peter on June 19th, 2005 3:08 pm

      I just heard on the news that it was the Holloways arriving in a strange country (Aruba) and performing their own investigation that came up with the names of the three suspects – NOT THE POLICE. This brings up images of the Keystone Cops bumping into one another. From there, the cops started their “investigation”. Only to let the three suspects go, to be arrested again later.

      Also, that the reason the Aruban cops don’t let the FBI have a more active role is, you guessed it – PRIDE. Disgusting, stupid and incompetent.

      I think we all have to ask the question, based on these events, would you allow your daughter to take a trip to Aruba. Think before you answer.

    238. jeez_louise on June 19th, 2005 6:31 pm

      RE: FBI assistance — heck, even city and state governments in the US are reluctant for the FBI to come into their jurisdictions — as Peter so eloquently stated, “you guessed it – PRIDE. Disgusting, stupid and incompetent.” That being said, it IS a shame that the best — perhaps, even, ALL — leads came from investigations made by the Natalee’s family members, with the very best window of opportunity for searching being lost because they weren’t already on scene!!

      RE: chaperone situation: my first impression when the story broke and I heard that there were only seven (7) chaperones for 125 students, I had but one thought: WHAT WERE THEY THINKING????!!! I’m a school teacher. Where I live, there is a VERY good reason that we are required to have one (1) chaperone for every 10 students — and that’s for something as tame as a walk in the park, a visit to a museum, etc. This is also why this was not a school-sponsored “senior trip”…no administrator in his/her right mind would take on (or approve) an event with that much risk attached to it, and certainly not with an adult-to-student ratio of 7:125. Someone mentioned hindsight in an earlier post, and this is going to sound so very cruel, because that person is a parent of one of Natalee’s fellow seniors, but foresight would have told me that my child did not need to go with so few chaperones, and what appears to be quite “poorly-defined” chaperone duties in this day and age!!!

      Just so you know, I’m originally from Alabama — grew up in a smallish town — and have done my share of dumb things while growing up — I tended to trust in everyone’s goodness and honesty (silly me!!) and, thank God, nothing bad ever happened to me. Back then, going to some touristy destination such as Aruba is today with a 7:125 ratio of chaperones-to-students MAY have happened — and my parents MAY have let me go…but those were far different times (early 70s) than today’s world. Today, you need a better system of accountability — both in terms of ratio of chaperones to students AND in terms of the “plan” that everyone — chaperones AND students — must follow to and from the doorstep of one’s house.

      There is NO WAY in the world I would consider being a chaperone to a “party vacation” place such as Aruba (or any of the popular Mexican locales) with as few as the standard 1:10 adult-student ratio — the ratio should be smaller than even THAT. If chaperones they are going to be, there needed to be enough “responsible” adults to “chaperone” small groups and be capable of doing the late-night thing WITH the kids…not snoozing while the kids are out partying “unchaperoned”. What good is a chaperone if they are only along for the ride to and from Aruba and/or for morning head-counts. That is FAR TOO LITTLE accountability!!

      In any case, I’m still praying for Natalee’s safe return — however dim that likelihood grows with each passing hour. However, there are miracles to be had in this life — I’ve been the recipient of many! May there be one for Natalee, her family and her friends!! A miracle for her is a miracle for each of us!!!

    239. jenica77 on June 20th, 2005 6:49 pm

      Is this still working?

    240. MAD-DOG on June 21st, 2005 3:15 pm

      MY daughter graduated at Mountain Brook 2005. She asked me if she could go on this trip and I was still laughing at her request(SHE DID NOT GO) until Natalee disappeared. I’m not laughing anymore!! NOW I’M PRAYING!!

    241. hang them high on June 25th, 2005 10:35 am

      I think if the girl is fround dead those boys should be intro duced to an old fashion necktie party. after they’ve been raped by severval lage inmatesfrom the albama
      state pen.
      u know these darkies go wild wild went hey see a young white girl.
      i bety shes in somebodies stew pot right now.

    242. Think before you speak on June 25th, 2005 3:49 pm

      I really wish that some of you would think before you speak or write. Your ignorance creates a ripple that travels far and wide and you and your thoughts affect every person on this earth. Take responsibility for your thoughts and actions. Your mentality is no different from that of the people who killed that girl. It’s easy to rationalize things that are wrong as long as you can convince yourself that it’s Ok. And yes, I said that Natalee Holloway is dead. It is sad, and the media is having a field day with it, but the truth is that that girl is dead. If she were still alive, those kids would have already told the police where she was. As far as wondering what could have been different and thinking about chaperones and parental responsibility, I have this to say. GET A LIFE! I love this country, but many people in it have a real problem. Every time that something happens, somebody has to pay. Someone must be accountable. Now, don’t get me wrong. If they find out who killed that girl, they should have to pay for their crime, but as for second guessing the family or chaperones and walking around saying,”Oh, I would have never let MY child do that”, (because of course, you’re such a better parent than Natalee’s), you need to stop being so self centered and wake up. SHIT HAPPENS! It’s not about you, it’s not about me. Things just happen in life. I’m not a religious person, but I’ll bet there are many of you who are. The worst part is that the most “religious” individuals are sometimes the ones who have the least amount of faith in the decisions of “God”. There is a reason for everything. Accept it. When everything is going the way WE want it, we praise God and thank him for all that he has given us, yet no one ever trys to accept that God works in mysterious ways and things work the way GOD wants them to work, not how WE want them to work. Yeah, you may not have let your child go to Aruba, but if he or she would have died in a car accident or got hit by lightening or the roof of your house would have caved in on him or her, you would be walking around saying, “Oh, Woe is me, if I had only let little Timmy go to Aruba”. What I’m trying to say is that you should stop second guessing decisions that were made, because what happened happened, and no one could have stopped it. And I have another subject to address. The Aruban police. The Arubans have a different form of government than us. After all, they’re Aruba, not the U.S.! They have a system that has already been compromised by U.S. pressures. I think that’s sad. I accept their government. I don’t understand why some think that everyone should be just like us. I happen to like the fact that there are different governments in the world. Maybe you disagree with the policies of Aruba, and that’s great. You know not to go to Aruba. Maybe they don’t believe in a policed state and violating civil rights. Hey, come to think of it, I think that maybe our lost constitution washed up on an Aruban beach. Yes, in this instance, it makes it difficult to solve this crime, but what do you want to do, pull the troops from Iraq and send them to Aruba to force our will down another countries throats? The comments about the whole prison rape (Hang em high?), I found to be very disturbing. I’ll bet you beat your women over the head with a club and drag them back to your cave too. Maybe someone needs to violate you sexually, so that you could understand that that is something that no one should wish on another human being. You are sick and should seek help.Ok, let me drag myself out of the hole that I followed you into.I do feel extremely sad for the family of Natalee and all that knew her. My heart goes out to all of them and I hope that they are able to find some peace. I hope that anyone who reads this will focus their energy on love and compassion rather than anger, hatred and blaming. I read a quote once that stuck with me. It said,” You must be the change that you want to see in the world.”

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