RSSNatalee Holloway; June 16 2005
(Fox): Today in Aruba a court will rule as to whether or not to allow the father, Paul van der Sloot, and lawyers for three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case to see their clients and the evidence against them. Yesterday Paul van der Sloot filed a motion allowing him to see his son.
An Aruban court on Thursday will rule on whether to allow the father and lawyers for three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case to see their clients and the evidence compiled against them.
Aruban authorities had denied visitation because of the father’s status. The father is a wealthy judge-in-training on the island, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases.
“When you’re a minor you have a right to visitation from your parents. But because of legal concerns, because the father is part of the legal system, that right was not granted in the first instance,” said Aruba government spokesman Rueben Trappenberg. Another judge will decide if the boy’s father can visit him after the motion is filed.
(ABC): Meanwhile the home of the 17-year-old Dutch teen, Joran van der Sloot, was searched and investgators later emerging from the home carrying several full plastic bags and towing two cars.
Aruban police searched the home of a high-ranking Dutch judicial official whose son was with Natalee Holloway the night she disappeared, emerging four hours later carrying several full plastic bags and towing two cars.
Two white-uniformed investigators from Holland on Wednesday also entered the yellow-beige home, which includes an attached apartment where the young man lives, carrying suitcases. They later returned the suitcases to their white, unmarked car.
However, as the search of the van der Sloot home was conducted yesterday and evidence removed many have questioned why this had not occurred earlier? Aruban authorities have stated that the 3 suspects now in jail had been tracked by electronic surveillance and there phones tapped after that had originally been let out and only been given the status of “witnesses”. The current push to investigate the van der Sloot home has some wondering whether is is, Too Little, Too Late?
While Aruban authorities on Wednesday searched the home of a teenager who was one of the last people to see a Natalee Holloway, legal and investigative experts said the search, along with many other investigative techniques, could have been done long ago.
The investigation has “been severely compromised because what they’re doing now they should have done two weeks ago,” said forensic pathologist Michael Baden, who added that evidence could have been hidden or washed away within the past two weeks from the time the Alabama teen went missing and Wednesday’s search.
“The chances of finding anything significant has been greatly reduced by the two week’s interval,” he added.
The Birmingham News, Police investigating using helicopter to survey island before dawn Thursday.
Police investigating Natalee Holloway’s disappearance made a helicopter survey of this Dutch Caribbean island before dawn Thursday after seizing cars and other items at the home of a judicial official whose son was with the Alabama teen the night she vanished.
A judge was expected to rule later Thursday on a motion from the official to see his 17-year-old son, who is being held along with two friends from Suriname. The judge also was to rule on a request by lawyers for the two Surinamese to see any evidence against their clients.
Authorities did not return phone calls seeking information about the helicopter flight. In a statement released late Wednesday, officials said the helicopter would conduct “technical investigations” across the island during the night.
Video and more news from MSNBC.
‘Pieces’ to puzzle found
Government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg said investigators were making progress.“They’re getting pieces that they need to solve this puzzle, put it together,” he told CNBC. “It is a question of national priority for us.”
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when will this “court rule” doesn anyone know? I dont think that he should be able to visit… he has already covered up enough i am sure!
marie from maine
Not sure of time, but it is supposed to be later today.
Has anyone heard anything on whether the military helicoptor with infrared turned up anything last night?
Some questions for those of you who are following this closely:
1)Do you believe that Joran is the sole perpetrator of this crime, or do you think the Surinamese boys also were involved in bringing harm to the victim?
2)Do you believe she died as a result of a GHB/date rape overdose, or due to some kind of assault or accident resulting from the assault (i.e. – she tried to run away, slips and falls)?
3)Do you believe that the Aruban police deliberately chose not to search their houses for evidenced and reel the 3 boys in immediately in order to give them time to coordinate stories, dispose of evidence, and generally allow the contamination of evidence? They could have done so, using the “cover story” that releasing them and keeping them under surveillance was their plan, when in fact they knew this would let them off the hook later because a defense attorney would be able to pick apart any evidence they gathered in searches conducted 2 weeks after the fact? If I was a police investigator, and I wanted to protect the son of a local political figure, I would want to be very discreet and subtle in how I helped him get off the hook. Is that what is going on here with the bizarre investigation methodology? Or is this just a simple case of an inexperienced police team from a different criminal investigatory culture?
4)Does anyone really still believe there is a plausible scenario where Natalee is still alive? Does anyone have a plausible scenario for her disappearance that does not involve the 3 boys now under arrest?
I would appreciate hearing opinions based on sound logic and the facts of the case that have been made available at this time.
except I will say this, if they got any confessions on tape whilst tapping the boys phones, that would be very strong evidence, however it appears the boys have been smart enough not to mention locations on those phone conversations or presumably Natalee would have been found by now, the cops certainly know the boys were colluding to make up alibis etc, they may know where the boys stashed incriminating evidence, and in fact maybe the Aruban police have forensic evidence from before this date and they’ve just kept their mouths shut
I don’t know – you watch enough CSI and they can solve cases that are 20 years old with new technologies…
I heard that it looked like the Arubans did allow some American forensic specialists in that house along with some Dutch…….
IF HE IS ALLOWED TO SEEE HIM….!#@#$% GONNA HIT THE FAN OVA THERE!
like I said, they can solve previously unsolved cases using old DNA now, and again while this is just TV, I’ve seen it on CSI where a limo was PROFESSIONALLY detailed before CSI could get to it and they still found blood using the luminol……all over the rear car seat, as well as hair
if for example, Joran has anything that belonged to Natalee or anything that has her blood or hair on it, he’s done, as I said yesterday a guy in Canada was convicted for murder without finding the body [they still haven't found the body] on basically that kind of evidence, in conjunction with the fact he had been stalking her……
if they find any of Natalee’s DNA in any of the cars not driven by the brothers, that means Joran was lying and someone moved her body, and may indeed implicate his family as accessories after the fact….
I really don’t think that Judge Van der Sloot should be able to see his son. Theres not telling what he’d say…I agree with Kelly.
I tend to believe Joran suffocated her to keep from yelling in a sexual assault situation, I do believe the brothers are involved in that they helped to cover up the crime and helped to temporarily dispose of/hide the body of NH. I also strongly have come to believe daddy has helped and used connections to cover the crime and permantly dispose of the body. I also believe Joran’s mom has knowledge of the crime and coverup.
I personally do not believe drugs to be involved, I do not believe she took drugs nor do I believe Joran had to give this girl anything to get her to go with him, after days of hanging out she trusted him.
I do believe Aruban authorities are trying to help in covering the crime by consistently allowing the families particularly Joran’s to dispose of any evidence.
I think the only paluaisble situation Natalee is alive is that she was sold to someone and I do not really believe that but it does happen in that area of the world, Joran’s love of gambling would be the motive in a situation like that.
Mike M.
1) I originally thought it was Joren who was responsible for Natalee’s death and the other two helped him cover his crime. BUT, nowthat they’ve all been in custody a week and no real confession from anyone I am leaning back to the idea that all 3 were involved in her death more or less equally,though I still see Joran as the ringleader.
2) I think if it was just an OD they would have left her on a beach close to the HI and just said she was intoxicated and walking toward her hotel when they left, there would be no way to prove that she didn’t take somethingon her own. So I kind of discount this idea by now. Same with a slip or a fall or something not done on purpose…they could have said it was an accident or left her and said it must have happened after they left. My conclusion now is that there was enough violence done to Natalee that none of them will say where her body is.
3) I see it as a combination of first not believing nice local boys were capable of such a crime, the local police probably thought she ran away, and just GROSS incompetance on their part. Whether they are more covering up their own mistakes or are truly trying to make it so these boys go free, I don’t know. But I believe an unsolved disappearnace is better for Aruba than an confirmed rape or gang rape and murder.
4) No, none that I can see.
hello all, i have been following this story along with you. And I have a thought and want to know what you think. #1 No one expected Natalees family to show up so soon after her disapearance, which pushed the police in to so called action on her disapearance. As slow s they have been going We are pretty sure that they trying to covor something up,. Maybe this is alot bigger than we imagined ( if thats possible) maybe while they were investagating Natalee’s disapearace they uncovered Daddy dearest connection with the drug sugglers or the slave trading. And while they are holding his son on one case they are gathering inforamtion on dad relating to another. Ot the two are tied together.
Cancon – How can you say that anything that has NH’s hair on it and is Joran’s belongings that would sink Joran, he has admitted to spending three days with this girl and by other accounts has made out with her. It is not like he said he did not know her. Blood is a different story but I think she was suffocated so there would be no blood.
personally I am wondering if the reason they don’t want the father seeing his son is because they suspect the old man is part of the coverup too and they don’t want him and the kid to co-ordinate stories, can they legally bug jail visits from parents?
Cancon – The father is defiantely involved.
Higher up families will always try and protect the family name even if it means covering up a murder.
Cancon
Yeah, I am starting to think that Joren’s father may have participated in the cover up and in hiding her body…
The three guys do not seem smart enough to have hidden her this good for this long, it starts to seem like someone more experienced and mature is involved.
Hm… i’ve been reading this for some time, There are a few things I find very strange in this whole case, but i’ve seen that others had ask themselves the same questions, like how the hell the friends just let her go alone with 3 strangers, why didn’t anyone noticed that she didn’t returned to the hotel, why did they release the 3 boys in the first place (in the beginning) and why the hell is this not solve yet. I find it unbelievable how 3 boys of that age, can hide something so good or well that the proffesional cops cant crack them, what the hell is going on over there???????
you have a point about the hair unless it turns up in a vehicle other than the one driven in that night, oh like one of the Van Der Sloot family vehicles, oh like in the trunk? and there is no evidence that Natalee was in any other vehicle with this guy and that seems to be the evidence from what the mother was saying, Greta had a great interview last night with Mrs. Holloway – she is a driven lady Mrs. Holloway and you can tell this is taking a toll on her, but she says she won’t believe Natalee is dead until God tells her she’s dead…….
Cas- My theory is this body was clumsily hidden originally and later permantely dumped with daddy’s help. i have decided the only hope of finding NH was lost in the first couple of days.
well if dad is involved then that would explain the dragging of the feet as far as the law is concerned. Hm being a judge in training they will have to get iron clad evidence on him and or his son to be sure that they can not get off and maybe save a little of Aruba’s tourist atraction.
The problem with hair is still that he can always say her hair was on his clothing and it was transferred to another vehicle. I honestly think this case dies without a body at this point. I agree on NH’s mom, very stong and committed to seeing this through.
and Cas, that may also explain why the Aruban police are proceeding so carefully because they want to build up an airtight case not only vs the kid but the father – going after judges/lawyers/justice officials/politicians is like celebrities, you usually try to get more evidence than you would in the case of Joe Blow because of the potential fall out if you can’t make it stick
they better have those judges from Curacao on standby from now on……
CRS,
I think you might be right. How can 3 guys who have been drinking at least dispose of a girl on a tiny island in the middle of the night so well that the entire Aruban police force and the FBI can’t find her?
Joran’s second story where he is dropped off before Natalee is totally illogical based on the geography, so he tells this totally dumb lie but he can hide a body this way?
I still think the police dont’ want to find her or didnt’ want to find her early because they don’t want to admit it was a violent crime. Even if they do find her soon decomposition will probably make it impossible to determine exactly what was done to her and how she died.
But my guess would be strangulation or they beat her.
Don’t forget you can go to the Natalee Holloway Discussion Forum, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=3418fb6fe5c0be68789da9c96b537974
Or on the main page click the Gray box on the upper right, “Discussion Forum”.
Just a reminder,
Red
I think the friend’s thought at the time this was a good kid, Joran I mean. A “friend” was on O’Reilly last night and he said Joran seemed like a nice guy. Hence they did not think twice when she caught a ride with them. As far them not noticing she did not return to the hotel, think about it, it is their last night in Aruba, they are partying and probably just thought she was with another group of friends. I do not think any of that to be odd. As far as boys keeping quiet, I think they are cracking a little and that is why daddy needs to get in that jail and tell them to chill out and this will be over in a 120 days. These kids will never be officailly charged due to lack of evidence.
crs I disagree, you don’t necessarily need the body, but it all depends on the circumstantial evidence, like what is on those surveillance tapes and whether we get any credible confessions of actual guilt……
CAS – Agree with everything you said, I tend to think she was not beaten, I think she was moderately tipsy and this kid just suffocated her he is 6’5 probalby 200 pounds, she is 5′ maybe 110. One thing I have wondered, is what if he suffocated her but she passes out orignally, he panicks, thinks she is dead, can’t get a pulse because she has been drinking so it is very faint, him and the brothers clumsily bury her alive and that is when she dies, i know this is an outrageous theory but who knows.
CRS:
That is EXACTLY what I think daddy wants to tell him “stop talking”….if the judge let’s him into see his son then I am going to say case over/complete cover up.
I don’t see how they can try a case with no body and no confession, but maybe now that the FBI is observing the interrogations things will start to unfold.
What a sick, sick story.
Does anyone know the status on Geraldo’s story about the porn video? Did they retract it or is he sticking by it? The letter is confusing.
CRS:
I thought the same thing, they thought she was dead but she wasn’t.
Cancon, I just don’t think these kids crack, the longer this goes on the more incentive there is just to keep your mouth shut, I know we don’t know what they have, the authorities i mean, but I tend to believe they don’t have much. The wild card is Joran’s mom who I think knows what happens and i wonder if at some point she cracks out of guilt.
I have thought of this also.
I think she was moderately tipsy and this kid just suffocated her he is 6†²5 probalby 200 pounds, she is 5†² maybe 110. One thing I have wondered, is what if he suffocated her but she passes out orignally, he panicks, thinks she is dead, can’t get a pulse because she has been drinking so it is very faint, him and the brothers clumsily bury her alive and that is when she dies, i know this is an outrageous theory but who knows.
CAS, I watched Fox News last night and did not see a retraction, I know its Geraldo, but I tend to believe that story as well as the heasd investigator saying “How can I do this to Joran, he is my best friend’s son”. I don’t believe Joran killed this girl out of malice, I think to some extent it was an accident and the true crime has been comitted in the coverup.
Does everyone agree/disagree that this not the first time Joran has sexually assualted a girl, that is my only other hope is that someone else has the courage to come forward and say they were assaulted by this kid.
CRS,
That’s what I first thought…he was struggling with her, she hit her head or he strangled her accidentally,trying to control and subdue her but not kill her.
But the longer there is no body the more I believe in a worst case scenario where he totally snapped and went nuts on her, or possibly they all did.
Plus, IF, and its a big IF the brothers story is true and they did drop Joren off, then clearly somebody else helped him..back to daddy I think.
I’m sorry, the brothers are already pinning it on Joran, let them sit in a jail cell a few more weeks and you’ll see what happens
it looks to me like the Aruban police are not making the same mistake the Bermuda police did when a Canadian girl was raped and murdered on the island
they made a deal with the one Jamaican guy before they had finished their investigation, they didn’t even wait for all the forensics to come back and they realized that the Jamaican guy was the one that raped and killed her not the Bermudian guy who was his accomplice so the Bermudian guy got off and the Jamaican guy got a slap on the wrist
the police will wait to offer the brothers a deal, assuming the brothers were merely accomplices and not the main perpetrators, and the brothers are going to have to cough up something to corroborate their story, if and when the police get that corroboration only then are they going to offer a deal and only then are the brothers going to confess the whole story
and as you find out more information, you use it to pressure these kids into confessing
CRS:
Yeah, I have been thinking that about other date rape or violent situations. But, most girls don’t ever say anything even in the US, other cultures, they might never come forward, plus we don’t really know how much pull these people have on the island, so if its a local girl, she still has to live there, it may not be worth it for her to speak up.
The whole thing is truly bizarre, I mean, most stranger rape situations don’t lead to death?!?
CAS – I think the brothers have to be involved, why lie for him originally unless they thought it would just blow over somehow. You might be right, it might be worse than I imagine apparantly Joran did have some anger management issues. I think there is real danger of this story dying if something does not happen soon, the mainstream media will not stay down there much longer. I think daddy and the aruban authorites know this and they too hope once the media leaves that this all just kind of goes away. The other thing that concerns me, they do not have jury’s down there and ultimately a judge will decide all of this no matter what and if he is friends at all with Joran’s daddy, I think he dismisses based on a lack of evidence.
Cancon – I hope your right but I think the more time that passes the more likely these kids eventually walk. I have a gut feeling that maybe years from now they find this girls remains somewhere.
PS I am going under the assumption this girl is indeed dead because otherwise the strategy might be different
now I have to wonder what was said on those tapped phone conversations, if they admitted or implied that she was dead over the phone, but then again wouldn’t they tell the family this?
I did note however a more conciliatory tone from the Holloway family towards the Aruban police, on both Fox and MSNBC last night and it makes me wonder if that was just a conscious decision to be less critical or they have been informed of more information than we have and thus they are less frustrated…..
CRS,
Yeah the media will get tired of the story, but there has to be also at this point, a certain understanding that in order to really “clear” Aruba they need a resolution that will satisfy the US.
I’m sure they expected this to be swept under the rug at first and they would just say, oh well, she’s missing, who knows what happened to her, maybe she decided to change her life, blah, blah, blah. They never counted on connections to the gov. of Alabama or a national media frenzy….
They could still go with a full cover up, but the FBI is down there now, and sooner or later, the FBI is going to talk….and if what they have to say is “cover up” that will not be good.
But, I change my mind on this several times a day?!
I think NH’s family knows you get more bees with honey and critizing the authorities was not in their best interest. I think daddy has not Joran well enough that he porbably kept his mouth shut. If they were going to watch these kids, I think they would have been better off almost never having brought them in for questioning.
nope, if Joran did it and the boys hide the body, they know they are going to be able to make a deal and there is no way their loyalty to their fearless leader is going to include staying in jail for months until this matter goes to trial, if they get the right deal, they’ll talk, mark my words, hell these days even Mafioso guys will rat out their buddies, the old code of silence is gone even from the Mafia……….heck even Al Queda terrorists sing like canaries, human nature baby, human nature…….
Cas – I have not heard about the connection to the gov. of Alabama. On the FBI, I think the arubans are keeping them at arms length to prevent that from becoming a problem.
I think all three are guilty because I would not go to jail for a brother or friend of mine. or none of them are quilty just happend to be at the wrong place wrong time
Fox news is now on the case big time. Bill O’riley will continue to make the officials look stupid and ask leading questions. He will not give up until he gets results. Greta is very methodical. She will continue to analyze the situation and get the most information from the officials. She has a logical approach and will continue to dive into the details. If the Aruban officials think that they will get a retraction from Fox, they are wrong. Bill and Greta will continue to beat on them until this case is resolved, and then Bill will say that he forced the Aruban authorities to do their job. This is a good thing as I think the Aruban authorities will continue to work hard on the case as long as there is media coverage, but will sweep the whole thing under the rug once the spotlight is off them.
Cancon, again, hope your right. I hope someone talks but I still think Joran’s mom is the best bet if as I suspect she knows the story.
This was on http://www.reihlworld.com this morning. The other site that I have been reading for a while now. Has anybody else heard this??? What do you think??
A message board poster on AOL from Aruba is claiming that three additional men are being questioned. And, that this has been going on the last two days or so. Says American news sources are reporting inaccurate information and seems to be solidly defending Van der Sloot in his posts/responses.
Two quotes on AOL message board site:
1) Thank you for being so positive and not blaming this all on the Arubian law enforcement. They are also now talking to three other men.
2) Faces are blocked in the pictures. Can’t tell who they are. It was reported first about 3 days ago in awe mainta. No one else has talked about it then saw it again today in awe mainta. Unfortunately all they say is that they are two arubians and one colombian. I can speculate but that is it
That non-English publication should be at the link. I’d think some reader here can likely disprove it.
Well Mrs. Holloway has already stated categorically that she is not leaving the island until her daughter is found so I don’t think there will be any let up on the Aruban police
Summer is typically a slow media season so that may ultimatly help NH and allow the focus to remain down there. People are very passionate about NH.
Vada, that is interesting, but I can’t help but wonder if this is another smoke screen thrown out there to continue to water down the investigation of the boys.
oh wait a minute I remember that, they picked up three guys in an armed robbery of a supermarket just a few days ago – rough looking characters too – but then, if they were the ones that killed Natalee they had to be pretty stupid to mount a robbery knowing what was going on unless they really needed the money to get off the island in a hurry
someone had posted the link thinking the guys were the three party boys, these are much older scarier looking dudes……..
well one of my other theories is that one or all of the guys left Natalee alone on a beach, either after raping her and just left her alone for whatever reason and perhaps some other creeps were lurking around…….they may be lying because they feel guilty about abandoning her…….
I was surprised how quick they got back to Natalee after the Michael Jackson verdict fiasco. Plus, Nancy Grace…blond southerner….she’s going to feel a kinship to Natalee and her family and she won’t less this go w/out a fight.
Plus, thinking positive, the media coverage has SLAMMED the local police, it is much more than ‘where is Natalee’ and has been so critical that they almost do now need to solve it to redeem themselves.
I am no big fan of FOX, but without the media pressure this case would already be on the back burner.
Cancon, defiantely a long shot on that one, I think if that is what happened it is a no brainer to say so when you are orignally question, the simple fact is these kids have changed their stories twice so they are behind this.
ooh what if these three armed robbery suspects had kidnapped Natalee, maybe she is still alive, locked up somewhere in a basement or on a boat
Why then do the boys keep lying?
crs
I originally thought it be a smoke screen too, but now I wonder, especially how the investigation is so “hush hush” or so it seems they know more than they are telling the public.
Vada, explain why the boys would lie not once but twice then?
well let’s imagine this scenario,
the brothers are telling the truth, they dropped of Joran and Natalee at the make out beach and went home
Joran got creepy, they get into a big argument, maybe he rapes her, maybe not, either way, Natalee got mad and said I’m going home, leave me alone creep and she goes stomping back towards the Holiday Inn, either along the beach or on the road there, maybe she tries to find a taxi, and some creeps like these three armed robbery suspects are loitering on the beach or cruising around the island looking for potential robbery targets and pick her up
Joran walks home himself – be interesting to know if anyone in his family is vouching for when and how Joran returned that night but since he lives in his own apartment – see that turned out to be an unfortunate thing, I’ll bet his family cannot vouch for his coming and goings……
now if that were the case you’d think someone would have seen either of them walking, even at that time of night, or ooh, it was caught on someone’s security tapes, have they done what they do on Law & Order and check all the possible security tapes of all the establishments in that area????? gas stations, ATMs, etc????
now the brothers are not sure if Joran is guilty or not, maybe Joran has been rough before, he’s feeling guilty because of the rape and the abandonment and thinks he is going to get blamed for her murder so they concoct the first story, because maybe they believe Joran at first when he says I didn’t kill that girl, now maybe the brothers are thinking, we’re not so sure now, and we’re not taking the fall for him, so now they are telling the truth
Paul van der Sloot should not be allowed to see his son because he is a Judge or soon to be one and until we know for sure he isn’t involved they should be kept apart.
I’m leaning towards the theory that they all are either directly or indirectly involved with some sort of drug/prostitution operation that is bigger than this mystery. C’mon, drugs & prostitution rings are a world wide problem, there are crooked cops everywhere too. and yes, here in the states. It might be a longshot theory but it is still a possibility. I still say that the security guard that got the so called confession from deepak knows more than he’s talking.
Remember what happened to Elizabeth Smart? I’m still holding out hope that they find Natalee alive somewhere.
It is also possible that the 3 of them did rape her and she either died at their hands or died of an od, and they had to dispose of her, with or without daddys help, If this is the scenario, wouldn’t there have been other clues? The fluid in the car, how long will it be before we find out what or who’s it is?
they keep changing their stories to either hide the fact that one of them killed her or that they sold her….if that is the case at all, they don’t want to expose the operation because if they do, they’ll be in a pine box.
anyways, With all the questions that come up, and the answers that come up, my theory changes more than once a day.
cancon,
You could be right too.
but here is another possiblity, the three robbery suspects are saying they know something or saw something implicating one or all of the boys because they want a deal
If the fluid you mention is the fluid found in Joran’s honda, they have previously said no further tests would be conducted on the substance since it was not blood. I tend to believe the boys never went anywhere they have said or mentioned in the news, all the places mentioned are lover’s lanes so I find it almost impossible to believe that no one would have seen or heard anything. DOes anyone not think it unusal that that not one person has come forward with an I heard, I saw story, very, very weird.
Okay…sorry. CRS, I met to respond to your comment before (was in a meeting, I am at work). I agree with you completely. They will not be able to charge these boys without a body. This father is a justice official. Therefore, unless they have any SIGNIFICANT evidence, they will never be charge. Circumstantial evidence would have already been presented by this time. These boys will get away with murder. I concede with the above poster who said that the would rather maintain Natalee’s “missing” status, then show that an American was brutally murdered in Aruba. We are 70% of their economy. Joran’s father, as most judges are, I am sure is very amicable the Aruban government. Therefore, they ALL have conspired and have covered up this crime. Searching Joran’s home last night was only to pacify the American public. It was just for show. They have no intention of finding evidence or Natalee.
Anyhow, what I am getting at is that island seems to be very much a what happens here, stays here at all cost.
crs, yes very weird no one seems to have come forward (or at least the public be aware of people coming forward) with info of seeing them anywhere.
ALLY – Excellent point on closing this case as a missing persons case rather than a rape/murder.
VADA, yep, maybe I am too amercaninized and am used to someone always coming forward with a story but I do think it is very weird, I mean not one person saw something, heard something, saw something strange, i mean this kids neighbors didn’t possibly notice something.
What have the boy’s parents been doing? If it was my son in that hot water, I’d have been scouring the island myself. Also, if my son was in jail, and the fact that I’m involved in the system (which I am here in the US) then I’d quit. Immediately. This whole thing stinks on many levels. The comment from boy’s mom that “he told me everything was going to be okay” would make me more nervous, he’s 17 afterall. I would have dragged his sorry self to each and every place they went together and talk to everyone there. Also, it’s pretty goofy that the radio station has folks from the public out looking…shouldn’t the police be doing that?
I truly am beginning to think there is some cover up going on.
well don’t forget this happened in the middle of the night, if it happened on the beach in a secluded area it is likely no one saw anything
however if a young blonde girl was walking alone in the middle of the night I’d think a lot of people would notice,
hard to say how many people would still be up and around at 2 – 3 am and sober enough to remember anything
that is a good point, and the only other valid option
I mean you guys act as if every single missing persons case and murder in the US and Canada is solved, not by a long shot kids
we have an unsolved missing persons case in my hometown, a woman went to work early in the morning, she worked in a bakery, she lived near the industrial area of town so there should be some traffic, she never arrived, that was 15 years ago…….and I live in a town with the population of Aruba
no body been found, no forensic evidence, now the husband came under suspicion but they had nada on the husband………
crs–ur right, how can no one on such a small island not have observed anything? Scaredy Kat, u are also right, thus just demonstrating, once again, that they ALL are involved and covering this up. As long as she goes “missing”….no one anywhere can link this island to Natalee’s “murder”
Realize, this is a tourist haven with casinos and other hot spots so I think this is a 24 town we are talikng about here, as i mentioned these are lovers lanes so i would think others would been around which makes me think they did go to the places they have said at all and went somewhere much more secluded which I think implicates the brothers more, Cancon, don’t you think if Joran and NH were really dropped off by Marriott someone would have seen something?
I agree, many cases do go unsolved but most do not get 1/1000th of the attention this case has received
and most do not involve an American teenager, on foreign land, and on her graduation field trip,
come on guys, tell me can you recount to me all the people and cars you have seen today, just driving to work, or whatever, I couldn’t, sometimes when I see something suspicious I try to file in my brain, sometimes I even write down a plate number etc otherwise I’ll forget, I can’t identify most makes of cars since they all look the same these days
I mean you have guys snatching little girls out of the same house where the family is asleep, come on, what’s wrong with that family????
have none of you ever done the eye witness test – we did in one of my classes at uni –
the professor scared us,
the professor walks in to class, as usual and all of sudden there are two people running in the classroom, a male and a female, not students and some kind of commotion ensues – see I can’t even remember if it was a fight or staged mugging or what and then they leave, all takes place in under a minute
the professor says, OK describe the male and the female, well there were 300 people in that class and there were about 300 descriptions of the event and the people involved……..
Cancon, u make a lot of sense to me. Hindsight is 20/20.
did you guys see the O’Reily Factor last night? The woman talk show host from here in Birmingham was a little bit of an embarassment, even though she has a few good points. People here in Birmingham seem to be asking why it is taking so long.
Cancon…very good point… But waht about if you saw one blonde teenager come into your classroom disheveled and beaten…, wouldn’t u notice? or if you saw your neighbor carrying something or placing anything in plastic bags the day after his son was “last seen” with a missing girl?
Cancon, right, some good points and you are kind of supporting what I say, and maybe I am wrong and people have come forward to say they saw this or that but to my knowledge not one person has and certainly if you were in the areas mentioned on the news so far it seems you would have thought back about what you did see and it seems even if insignificant people would be talking.
I agree with you RB, the radio host was just a loud mouth and more often than not did not seem to know what she was talking about.
and that is the way she is on the radio most of the time as well. rash and emotional
Natalee Holloway Thursday Updates
Here are today’s updates on Natalee:
As much as I hate the pace of this investigation and it is so frustrationg from here in the US because we are getting no information on any evidence they have. I want to scream cover up. BUT the Arubian govt knows the whole world is watching them and in particular the US which really accounts for their enitre economic exsistance. So I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to realize that it is their culture, customs and laws. It may seem like like that is a small island but in retropsect looking for a body would be a very dificult job. If they really did put themunder servalliance then that means they would of had to make sure her body was well hidden before they were arrested. If it was after then I think you have to conclude someone else is involved with helping them. IE: Dear old Dad
In any event I have no doubt that these three drugged her. The security guard made the statement that he was told that she was really drunk. Well I don’t think the one brother is going to tell them Hey she was really fucked up after we dropped the GHB into her drink. I have no doubt this is not the first time it has happened. I believe that Joran had his sites on her for the entire week and I think he planned all along to get laid by her regardless of what it took to do it. Did he plan on killing her. I doubt it but from all accounts he has major anger issues. Maybe she wasn’t as drugged as he had hoped and she tried to fight him off. If she was really dropped off I don’t think thier stories would be changing. Bottom line I think they all have a part in it…
Does anyone on here blame NH herself, NH’s parents, chaperones, her friends, etc.? I personally do not but I am interested in other perspectives.
I agree on it being a tough case if they had not had these suspects in their sites immediately, hell, NH’s mom, tracked them down after literally being on the island for just a few hours based on the interview I saw Greta do with her last night. i am convinced all these searches are now smokescreens, too much time has passed and as another poster has said, it is in Aruba’s best interest to end this case as a missing person/unsolved then to have it end as a rape/murder. i also do not think she was drugged, O’Reilly had a girl on last night who said she was tipse but totally coherent, I think she just totally trusted this guy.
The kids on O’Reilly last night were wonderful, but very cautious in what they said. An 18-year old who herself may be tipsy may not be the best source of judgment on another 18-year old.
crs – Absolutely not. No girl/woman deserves to go through this regardless of irresponsibility. The focus should be to find her, not to find out who did it. The unknown of not knowing where she is, is killing her parents.
Timmie if u r reading this posting ,pls call me at jesicca cell,I ‘ll explain it 2 u
crs – Do you really want to hear from people who would blame any of those others? Because that would be an absurb idiot speaking.
you are exactly right…and since when does an 18 year old know how to “drink responsibly” when they’re underage to begin with.
I agree, the kids were very cautious and picking their words carefully.
ASDF—CRS was just trying to get another perspective..He was not placing culpability….
Have any of you heard any news of any sort this morning?
They were cautious. I was impressed with that. But, RB is so correct. From what I know of teenagers (I’ve had 3 – ouch) there is no such thing as responsible drinking. At least in the US, where it is illegal to drink under the age of 21, you cannot be responsible if you are 18 and drinking.
Ally – Thanks, I kinda figured that out when he/she said “I am interested in other perspectives”.
Trisher. I agree. I am sure they both were tipsy and thus not very observant and perceptive of anything going on at the end of the night
Interesting picture of Joran being led out of court on CNN.Com, he looks like he has been crying and at the same time looks mad/angry.
then if u did, you would be such a “close minded” poster..I thought the rieteration was deemed necessary
Well, there was a time when the drinking age was 18 here too and in most countries arouond the world 18 year olds can drink, so apparently there do exist millions of 18 year olds who can drink responsibly.
Its unfair to assume that every single person on this trip was falling down drunk and completely irresponsible.
The girl on O’Reilly said she was circling back to make sure no one was left behind. Does that sound like the actions of someone trashed out of their mind?
Another site is reporting of a new search in a different, somewhat more remote area of the island.
Hi CRS! I do not blame Natalee herself nor her parents but I do have a little bit of a problem with the “chaperones.” The word itself is defined as “chaperon, chaperone – one who accompanies and supervises a young woman or gatherings of young people.” Being that I am the mother of a 17 year old daughter who is a very responsible, level headed gal, academically gifted except for Trig but that is another story(!), athletic, no drugs and no drinking, my husband and I would have accompanied this group of kids (as we have always chaperoned my daughter’s trips/proms/homecoming/football games with her school). Our group requires one chaperone per five kids and regardless of how old they are, I would do a bedcheck every night and accompany them, especially to a place like Carlos-N-Charlie’s (if I would even let them go in the first place). I would be there to CHAPERONE. I would not “cramp” their style when accompanying them to these places, but I would most definitely have been there and made sure that every single one of those kids would have got on the bus to the hotel and not in a private car with three boys. Of course, it most definitely would have been a difficult task if all 124 kids were at CnC that night but with one chaperone per five kids, it is not an impossible task. We have taken our daughter on the school trips with upwards of 180 kids (HUGE BAND) to New York City, Orlando, Boston and will be traveling again next spring with them. I can’t even imagine how the parents who did chaperone the trip with Mountain Brook feel right now, I would be absolutely devastated. I do realize that things happen that are out of our control. I am going to take (already have and will do so repeatedly) this opportunity to talk to my daughter and her friends also about the importance of watching out for each other and not going out at night alone (to parties, games, whatever) as they approach the age of 18 (because that is when they feel they can)! Even in college, they always need to “buddy up” and not go it alone as young adults at that age do not feel vulnerable. I made some very bad decisions when I was 18 in, ahem, 1982 (!) and thankfully I am here today.
thanks Trisher. It scares me to think that some of these “sheltered” parents truly think that their 18 yr old is actually a responsible drinker.
TJW – Thanks for the honesty, good post. As you say, I am certain the chaperones do feel terrible over the whole thing and i am certain all of them will always wonder in some form “What if”.
Cas, u are right and we shouldn’t assume that. The girl did say she was looking for other people so that they would not be left behind. But the truth is whether or not she was drunk or not, she and no one else is able to provide any significant details of what has happened.
A LOT of kids grow up these days so FAST and think they have everything under control. You could be 30 and not responsible for your actions when you’re drinking. It’s so unfortunate what happened to Natalee and I hope they find her just so the family can have some peace.
CAS, no one said the students were trashed out of their minds. But you know as well as I do if a girl, of their size, gets a few beers/drinks in her, they’re not thinking like they would if they were sober. It doesn’t take much to understand that.
Yes, another good point! I also know that even though my 17 year old daughter is very responsible, I also know that she is a teenager and will want to “cut loose” eventually and that time is coming very soon. Not a blind nor sheltered parent here because I went through it without my parents around! My daughter will eventually cut loose as I do expect it and I expect it from her friends also. But, if they schedule any trips to do this, you can bet myself and my husband will be there too.
Has anyone else seen on CNN the last couple of nights where they are following a group of kids down there, it is scary, that even after NH, these kids are still just out of their minds drunk and still not really thinking this kind of thing can happen to them. They asked one of the girls as she’s coming out of Carlos and Charlies, what have you been drinking and she says “Sex on the beach and it makes you want to have sex on the beach”, she is just out of her mind drunk. It is sad this has not been more of a lesson. Also, that girls parents must be so proud!
CRS, that is frightening. I haven’t seen that yet.
It is usually on the Anderson Cooper show at 7, catch it if you can, I think it is a week long series and they are supposed to have the “Sex on the beach” girl’s parents on tonight.
lol, ya very proud and very dumb. Her parents probably have no clue because kids cover up a lot to their parents for fear they may be in trouble or dissapoint them.
I think that the authorities in Aruba are desperate and are looking for a scapegoat because of the international press. They probably don’t have evidence against these three guys and I think that they will be set free in the next week or so. It’s going to turn into another unsolved missing persons case, something that happens quite often in the U.S.
I will try to catch it – awful. Well, finished working for the day, now must head outside to get some work done out there! Stay nice everyone.
RBinBHam,
I agree with you on that.
I’m not saying that drinking doesn’t change your perception of a lot of things, it does for everyone, no matter how old they are. Most people are friendler and less cautious, more open to talk to strangers, etc. etc. Adult women get raped all the time by people they meet in clubs and bars and think they can trust. They might or might not have picked up danger signals if they had been sober.
I only think that to assume that everyone on the trip was totally out of control and drunk out of their minds is unfair. Some probaby were, some probaby weren’t. And it seems clear that they were at least trying to look out for each other and keep tabs on each other, it wasn’t a total every man for himself free for all.
Bottom line, most 18 year olds in that situation would probably have trusted Joren enough to get a ride back to the hotel with him.
I would bet money this girl’s parents come on and go “She’s just having fun, letting loose”, certainly not all parents today, but many, want to be their kids friends versus being the parent. I am certainly not saying or implying that is the case with NH, by all accounts and by my own observations of the parents on tv, they seem to be a great family. But I think you can tell Joran’s parents are like that, they want to be his buddy first, he has obviously been taught the rules don’t apply to him, he is gambling and driving and legally in Aruba he can do neither.
Adult woman get raped all the time by people they meet in bars. Wow, that’s a pretty bold statement
crs – Great point! I agree 100%. Be the parent, period. Children do not need you as a friend, there are plenty of people to be friends with. They learn from you and parents need to be parents.
Sad. It’s getting harder and harder to find any new information about Natalie. Unfortunately, there are other things happening around the world, and everything that’s happening in aruba is taking the back seat. I don’t recall ever being so anxious to find information out about anything like this before. Couldn’t they at least give us something?
I don’t believe, or assume, that everyone on the trip was totally drunk out of their minds either. I’m sure there were some that were not drinking at all. My point was an observation only.
And you’re right, most teenagers would have trusted Joren…but hopefully you and I won’t raise “normal teenagers”!!
I agree CAS. Many would have accepted the ride. Mine probably would have. And I raised them to be responsible, law abiding people. To say ALL were drunk is probably an overstatement. I have seen the bit on Anderson Cooper and that is scary. But we know it happens. They even showed the parent watching the video of their daughter last night.
Trisher – I didn’t see it. What did the parent do/reaction when they saw it?
CRS…
She could of been drugged in the car. They could of had drinks with them. Or it was slipped into her drink just before she left. All of this could of been very premediated on these three part….
These kids are doing nothing illegal down there. What they are doing would be illegal here. Their parents should know what is going on. The chaperones were not probably there literally as “chaperones.” It does not mean their parents approve. It means they are 18 years old and technically adults.
I agree, I think 99/100 kids take the ride, at that age your invinsible, nothing bad can happen to you, your just out having a good time, its just a ride, I have known this guy for three days and he’s great, its my last night here, you know all those thoughts ran through her head. Kids today really need to understand that every decision they make, every day counts.
ASDS – The parents just sat there and sort of smiled and said “well she’s the homecoming queen and she makes good decisions. Her friends are there and they watch out for each other.”
CRS – OMG – someone who thinks like I do. That is so true. THey think they are invincible – until something like this happens to THEM. Otherwise, life is great.
Am I the only one who would like to smack her parents to give them a “wake-up” call? I would have started balling my head off if I saw that video of my daughter.
I think that the chaperones were trying to make sure that none of the students would indulge in any sexual activity with one and other in the hotel rooms or something. They neglected to realize that the danger could come form somehwere outside of the student group
Justin, your right, anything could have happened once they drove off, I just don’t know how premeditated it was, who else thinks it is possible, the boys drove NH and Joran back to his place, let’s remember we now know he has an apartment where his parents probably do not know his comings or goings and this is really where everything happened.
I don’t know about you all, but the bottom line is, I’m very sad it happened, for her, her friends, her family. It is not NH’s fault, as in, no one deserves to have this happen to them. She is the victim.
I have 3 daughters who would not have even asked me to go on their trip to Cancun – no way I would have let them. But that does not mean that that is how every parent thinks or acts. And it doesn’t mean that they did not get into their own sort of trouble around here. Unfortunately for Natalee and her family, she was not lucky.
I just read the interview Greta has with Natalee’s mom….It will be on TV tonight
I find it odd that they cant even find ANYONE to come forward that links them, unusual that there isnt anyone (if arubans really wants this solved to try to rebuild their lives) i mean nobody saying hey i sold him rufies or i saw him dealing X
this is why i thinnk it has a bigger tie to the underground drug world- otherwise SOMEONE would ahve cracked, it is just a web of varrious fowl plays and nobody wants to kill their cash cow ?
eh?
Natalee’s mom is amazing with Greta.
Agreed it is sad but i hope that the sadness leads to more communication between parents and kids today and that is Natalee’s legacy and a great legacy that this does not happen to anyone else.
HOMECOMING QUEEN.
That was totally bizarre, I thought it was strange they went on TV at all, but to go and defend their daughter, who WAS clearly falling down drunk and didn’t care where her ‘buddy’ was is unbelievable. It is not okay to get that drunk and wander around by yourself taking about sex on the beach. At any age it is collosal bad judgement.
They should have grounded her and given her a serious talk. I am sure she is a good kid, but don’t go on nat. TV and say its okay that your daughter is dead drunk talking to TV reporters with no clue where her buddy is.
Come on.
Drug underworld? All Arubans are part of some drug underworld and know who sells drugs to whom? If that’s the case all drug dealers would be in jail. Did some of the kids from Alabama bring X with them to Aruba? I’m not saying they did but X isn’t made in Aruba.
Also, from the news yesterday, it does not look like Joran’s parents house has any immediate neighbors.
i saw that to cas I was BLOWN away- what an airheeaded bimbo- theyre cant be a brain in her head to say thouse thinkgs- with all of the pain NH’s family is dealing with right now – i found that RIDICULOUS!
CAS, agreed on the parents, but I think they are yuppie standard in parenting today. It is never the parents fault or the kids fault anymore, it is the teachers, the coahes, whoever, when did this change in parenting mentality come about, has it always been there, this is not how i grew up.
i was offered x in aruba and coke- 2 months ago dude – there is DEFINATELY a drug world in aruba
and im no hottie teenager- im a regular 34 year old
was approached in my hotel lobby- my husband hnearly killed him
I think you’re missing the point that it does not matter the parents – these kids are going to do what they are going to do. No matter if the kid is Valedictorian, Homecoming Queen, Drum Major or Drama Queen
Crs,
I wouldn’t think NH would of willing gone back to his place. Not when telling her friends she was headed back to the hotel. So I am just speculating that if she did end up there then there was some sort of made up excuse to just swing by for a “couple of minutes”. When I say premeditated I am really speaking of his intent to make his move and get her alone. I am sure he figured that as long as her friends were around he wouldn’t have a shot. So not premediated in the sense of hurting her. But who the hell knows.
I think what is driving everyone crazy is you just don’t get any information on what is going on and what you do see makes it “appear” the police are bumbling idiots. And maybe they are!
I am by no means an “X” expert but i don’t think there is anything that prevents the manufature of “X” in Aruba.
Is this the only major investigation in recen thistory that has NO NEWS?!!!!!!!!!!
WHERE IS THE NEWS?!!!
Yes to the fact that it is not the parents or the kids faults, no not at all! It isnt Natalees TWO roommates that couldnt be bothered to see that Natalee came back to the hotel room that fateful night. I should hope to never have a system that so broken down.
Peace out, I see I am in a fitfully blaming mood
You can find X all over the island, its he same in Cancun, Domincan Replublic, venezuela
Justin, I think it is pretty clear she trusted this kid and assuming she did want to have sex I don’t think she would have wanted to do this in the car with his friends there or even on the beach, I could see where he told her let’s go to my house and i will run you back to your hotel in a little while. Just a thought.
I’ve cancelled my August trip to Aruba. We must send a message to these people.
I WANT TO SEE ARUBA TURNED INTO HAITI PART 2, and that’s exactly what it would be were it not for American tourist money.
CRS,
I totally agree that parents today want to be friends with their kids and for whatever reason have lost the ability to set guidelines or even acknowledge when their kids make mistakes.
Which is why the parents of 3 party boys are trying to save their a** and don’t give a whit about Natalee…I’m sure they think whatever happened was her fault.
But, I don’t think the Holloway’s fit that pattern, by all accounts Natalee was well brought up, serious and well on her way to a succesful life. That a 5 day vacation where she might have cut loose a little bit could end in this is beyond horrible.
What is the time difference between here and Aruba, i think most of us are on the east coast, it seems like most days news starts filtering out of there about three or four most days.
I seriously doubt that she wanted to have sex with this kid. By all accounts, she was not the slutty type.
Billy – Good job. More people need to follow your lead right. Hopefully, that will put on the pressure.
I think Aruba goes by EDT.
CeeCee
Place blame where it belongs, on the people who hurt Natalee.
Does anyone think that it was possible that when the cops intially showed up at Joran’s house to interrogate Joran and his father said he was out gambling, that he could have been in the attached apartment, and was given time by his father to call his friendsto further coordinate their story and get rid of any remaining evidence at his apartment. Maybe his dad went along with Natalee’s mom, and the cops on a wild goose chase? I don’t know just a thought. Also, i find it odd that when Joran called his father on his cell ohone to tell him that he was home; he was waiting there back with one of the brothers.
Billy what are you talking about. Aruba is way different to Haiti even if american stop going there,( i don’t think so) they still get tourists fron Canada,europe,south america
CAS – I don’t think that i did but I certainly did not mean to suggest what we have talked about in the last few posts applied to NH and her family. My primary example is Joran in relation to parents being friends.
One other thing, everyone is looking for someone to blame. That is ridiculous. 18 is legal drinking age in Aruba. The chaparones from what “everyone” has said, it was not their position to be a babysitter. These were all graduates and quite frankly most were headed off to school and on there way to be on their own. This same situation could of happened to her right here in the US at a college party.
The wild parties that are being blamed on Aruba and underage drinking well all I can say is you better take a look around. Have you not seen all the shit that goes on in Daytona, Panama City, Lake Havasue City for spring break? It is every bit as out of control in those places and alot of it illegal.
It is a sad, sad set of circumstances. I hope to hell they find her so her mother gets some kind of closure and more importantly I hope they can nail these pukes.
We need to boycott the state of Florida for allowing the killing of three innocent children during the last two years by “registered” sex offenders.
Redneck,
60% of there toursts comes from the US amounting to billions of dollars
Redneck–the vast majority of their tourism comes from Americans. Americans have the most money and are close.
Aruba is only 500 miles from SLIME PIT islands like haiti and the Dominican Republic. It’s in the middle of nowhere. The only thing separating Aruba from Haiti is AMERICAN MONEY. Once that rug is pulled out from under them, that island will turn into an impoverished rat hole. Oranjestad will be Port au Prince.
Billy – i am not suggesting NH to be slutty at all, however she is 18 with the hormones raging, obviously liked Joran and let’s face it, she was in an exotic location on the last night of the trip, i am merely suggesting a reason as to why she would go to Joran’s house. i am not slandering this girl in the least. i just do not think this all happened where the boys or the authorites are leading us.
just a comment… I thnk you can be a friend and a parent to your kids. But most don’t know where to draw that line…Hence they become too much of a friend. But it can be done.
Billy maybe u r right
Justin–WHO CARES what the legal drinking age in Aruba is? There are plenty of things that are LEGAL but nontheless reckless and unadvisable. Prostitution is legal in Amsterdam, but, if you took an American high school class there, and one of the 18-year-old girls said, “hey, I want to go turn some tricks,” should the chaperones let her?
Re: Father involved.
Yes, to whoever the poster is, I thought it was very, very suspicious that they go to the house after midnight and the 17 year old ‘honor student’ is out at the casino and then they get to the casino, and well, hey, he’s back at home, with Deepak….what are the odds of this happening w/out some premeditation?
Also, the fact that Natalee’s mom said Joran was arrogant and condescending, does that sound like an innocent person? Does that sound like someone who had a romantic evening with a beautiful girl and left her alive?
Not by a long shot.
We are suppose to be going to Roatan Island off of Honduras and this freaks me out to no end. I don’t want to step foot off of American dirt. The governments in other countries is too relaxed!
To TJW: I read your comments and I would totally agree about the amount of chaperones needed on a trip this size to another part of the whole. Chaperonning is a huge responsibility that needs to be taken seriously. I have an older teenager and and younger teenange –Keep this in mind I always do “I never want to have to say to myself I wish I done something differently at that time–when the time is actually happening say to yourself I am going to make the BEST decision now. Always try to keep yourself and your love ones out of “Harms Way” NH was in “Harm’s Way” and there was no one there to ask her that question!
Justin T—well said. At the end of summer, many would disseminate out to out of state colleges without chaperones to commence their lives independently.
This whole thing is consuming my life. even at work I find myself listening to news on the radio hoping to hear something. When I’m not at work I find myself surfing the net or reading post here, or sitting in front of the tv watching fox news.
For two whole weeks we haven’t heard one single thing that lets us know that they are even remotely close to solving this.
I do have to disagree with people that are saying they are covering up their investigation. The US tourism there is a major part of the Island’s popularity. I don’t think they want to compromise that.
Billy, less people are on welfare(percentage wise) in Aruba than in the U.S. …slime pit island??? They don’t have the welfare mentality that you have Billy
Connie, I do agree with you to a certain extent. The only reason why I firmly believe they are “covering” up is because of the Dad(judge).
Connie, question, in terms of coverup, which is better for Aruba a case that ends as a missing person/unsolved mystery or a heinous murder of a tourist?
boycotting aruba isnt the solution- taking the $$ from the island isnt going to make it better it will make it worse, i think that this brings to lite that while being ONE of the safest islands there is still partying, drugs and crime so- START POLICING MORE! duh, it is just so ridiculous that they dont have professional cops raoming the boardwalk after last call, looking out for red light situations (ie one girl 3 men drunk in a car) i KNOW that it doesnt solve everything but it wont happen becasue aruba wont admit they ahve any crime it is just one happy island…. love that place but they need to get their eyes open to prevent these things from happening…sorry i will et off my soap box
Mecha—Obviously, you’re not comprehending what I’m saying. Aruba EXISTS at the consent and largesse of the United States. AMERICAN MONEY is the ONLY reason that Aruba is different from Haiti. Once Americans stop going there, that place will be a ghetto.
aqsdf , grow up and face the reality you are no safe anywhwere
The dad is NOT a judge and second of all, the dad is NOT well liked by the Prime Minister of Aruba and the Chief of Police; prior to this incident
Mecha – How do you know he is not well liked by them? Are you speculating or you have facts to back this up?
If they were covering up because of Joran’s father, don’t you think they would have allowed him to visit his son? I honestly don’t think the father had anything to do with it, other than the fact that Joran was allowed to do what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. How many parents do you know that would allow a 17 year old to have his own “apartment”? (sure it was above the garage, but still he could come and go as he pleased)
Billy, the United States exists fro a large part due to international trade as well. If other countries boycotted the U.S. we would become a wasteland. We’re not surviving on our own???We export things as well. China has us by the bizalls at this point and they can really do a number on us.
The fact is, the Dad has authority and power. 3rd world countries are known to stand by their people regardless of the crime. They do not like Americans trotting onto their territory even though it is their bread and butter.
Connie, good point on wouldn’t they let him see him. Realize though, a good coverup has to have hints of justice being done, hence the searches and other certain aspects of investigation.
From what I’ve read he doesn’t have that much power. Says he’s only allowed to observe very few cases.
My friends own a news paper down there, of which the publisher recently appeared on Hannity and Colmes(FOX).
You all need to understand something. Aruba is a Dutch island but the Dutch have had a somewhat precarious relationship with the locals(mostly of latin origin) since a lot of locals feel that the Dutch have taken away jobs that belong to locals. Joran’s dad was NOT born on Aruba, neither was Joran. They’re quick to expell a Dutchman if they can find an “ARUBAN” to do the job, even he’s not qualified. Kind of like affirmative action.
Mecha–WRONG. The United States is FAR closer to being self-sufficient than any other country in the world. My advice to Aruba is to avoid angering the US people before we turn Aruba into Haiti Part 2.
Connie, i understand what you are saying, but I think they are covering it up to leave the case as a missing person(s). I think they haven’t let Joran’s father see him for our sake, the American media. I think everything that has gone on right now will result in a fruitless search. They are just trying to “look good” right now for the American public.
Last night on Fox, Greta had a local take her to the lighthouse and the local said the father is very well off, certainly not one of the richest people in the world but very well off especially for the island.
I copied this from foxnews.com
“Van Der Sloot’s father, Paul Van Der Sloot (search), filed a motion allowing him to see his son. Aruban authorities had denied visitation because of the father’s status. The father is a wealthy judge-in-training on the island, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases”
Mecha, at best, what you say is hearsay, and quite honestly, it would not matter if they liked him or not, a henious rape and murder of a tourist = no more tourism and these people are not stupid, they know which side the bread is buttered on and an end result of this being a missing person’s case is Aruba’s ideal outcome.
I want to see Kan Jewelers, Carlos n’ Charlie’s, Talk of the Town, and all of their other little shops BOARDED UP.
Here’s a simple proposition: ARUBA minus AMERICAN DOLLARS == HAITI.
We will not stand for this coverup.
Ok…you win Billy…you’ve got the bomb and will judge the world by fire and hunger. All Arubans and an economy must suffer because of the actions of one or two. Yeah…you makes great sense. Unresolved power issues…check into it and seek help.
Wealth = Power
Mecha-Godzilla Says:
June 16th, 2005 at 12:50 pm
My friends own a news paper down there, of which the publisher recently appeared on Hannity and Colmes(FOX).
You all need to understand something. Aruba is a Dutch island but the Dutch have had a somewhat precarious relationship with the locals(mostly of latin origin) since a lot of locals feel that the Dutch have taken away jobs that belong to locals. Joran’s dad was NOT born on Aruba, neither was Joran. They’re quick to expell a Dutchman if they can find an “ARUBAN” to do the job, even he’s not qualified. Kind of like affirmative action.
never looked at it in that light, good point godzilla
I’m not trying to argue with anyone here. I’m only stating my opinion. Like I said before I honestly don’t believe there is anytype of cover up. They want to solve this so they can get back to their everyday lives. They are just not used to this much press, nor are they used to cases like this.
crs – exactly. Unfortuneately, in politics………money makes the world go round. Look at some of the “celebrities” who have gotten off……………..
hey, has anyone given any thought to the possibility of an overdose on “x”. A case happened here (small town) a few years back in which a young girl (hyped very much by the local media as a girl who would never do such a thing) overdosed on the drug in the backseat of a car. The guys (high also) freaked and by the time they drove around tying to get her to come to she was dead. They were terrified that they would get into trouble for using the drug, giving the drug to the girl, etc. They did eventually take her to the hospital and that was about it for the story, but it could have definately gone the other way if they had dumped the body or the like. Anyway, It seems very sterile to me that an attemp has been made (and is ongoing) to make the suspects look guilty and remove the actions of Natalee from the picture. NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING THAT I THINK SHE IS RESPONSIBLE IF FOUL PLAY IS INVOLVED. I’m not going to play that game, ie “she shouldn’t have gotten in the car”, “she was asking for it”, etc. My statement is simply that we should look honestly at the situation. I feel that we will never know what happened to Natalee for several reasons 1) the kids on the trip will never paint an honest picture of what happened or what they know of Natalee for two reasons (a) don’t want Natalee to be remembered for anything less than a saint and that is understandable. It is parallel to saying bad things about a person at their funeral. It doesn’t happen-at least not from a friend and (b) people are naturally inclined to cover their butts. A very sad reality is that (on the average) a high school student will supress information that might get them into trouble with their parents reguardless of whether or not it might solve a mystery, shed a different light on suspects, or whatever. I have seen that on numerous occasions. 2) the persons close to Natalee (parents) want to know what happened to Natalee reguardless of what that might mean. BUT!!!!!!! If what happened to her in any way sheds a less than glowing light on their daughter. They will supress information and work just as hard to make this situation go away as they have painted of the Aruban officals. They want to know but they don’t want the public to know unless it makes her (Natalee)look positive. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. Watch the interviews with the mother and classmates. These people would never entertain the idea that Natalee would act anything less than responsible in all situations. For those reasons I truly feel that the public will never know what happend in Aruba.
Mecha— What? This is not because of “one” or “two” people.
I’m not blaming Aruba for what happened to Natalee. I’m blaming Aruba FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE SINCE IT HAPPENED.
I’m blaming them for their incompetence
Kan jewelers…what do you have against Jewish people Mr Billy Mengele?
billy so are so arrogant .guys like you give bad name to most of americans.
Connie – I respect your opinion, I am just trying to discuss and see more why you feel that and that same time articulate why there would be reason for a coverup.
Billy, agreed 100% with “what they haven’t done since it happened”. Who knows though, they may have done things they are not publicisizing.
billy c’mon aruba minus our $$ would not be Haiti, it would just downsize, the people there are hardworking and intelligent and professional- money isnt the only difference – c’mon… aruba just grew too fast thats all-
Billy is suffering from erectile dysfunction…leave him alone..he’s angry
MARIE—-And you don’t think that people in Haiti are hardworking and intelligent? That doesn’t matter. You can be the smartest and hardest-working person in the world, BUT IF THERE IS NO ONE TO BUY YOUR LABOR, you will be poor. It’s all about markets. If there is NO MARKET for what you produce, you will starve, regardless of how smart or dedicated you are. The Aruban market is The United States. Without us, that island becomes a ghost town.
The reason I feel this is because of everything that I’ve been reading over the past couple weeks. It’s been stated in several atricles that the crime rate in Aruba is very low. In the past two years they have only had two murders, an a handfull of rapes. There for they don’t have the knowledge or the means of investigating a case of this calibur. Many mistakes have been made. If there is coverup happening, they are only covering up for mistakes they have made in the investigation, not because of someone we “assume” is a powerful attorney.
This case is not about the average aruban, i am certain that they are great people just like I still think most americans are good people. The issue is with Aruban authorities. I respect both view points, the view that by not spending our money in Aruba we can force their hand and I also respect the people that say by doing so we hurt the average aruban who is just a good person, working hard, for himself and his family.
once again billy .go back to work and stop talking nonsense
larry- i have been thingking similar thoughts… something may have happened that is more difficult to get to becasue “people dont want to get in trouble” sad but very possible
Connie, interesting, I had not necessarily thought of it as covering up their mistakes to prevent embarrasment. Maybe so.
billy- i respect your opinion but in effort to make your point you are making no sence- aruba isnt repressed- without money they will not be haiti what type of socio-economic degree did you receive?
crs. As I said this is only my opinion. I’m not saying that they aren’t covering up for anyone. I’m just stating what I feel. Everyone has opinions, unfortunately opinions won’t solve this any faster. I vote we all go down to aruba and conduct our own investigation. From what I’ve been reading here, we may be able to make some headway.
Connie: I do think that the arubans dont know how to deal with something this major as well. I also believe that if they dont have the knowledge, they should get some Americans to help out. We as Americans have crimes so awful and our people know how to deal with it. I’ve heard that the Aruban Gov doesn’t want anyone to help due to the fact that may portrey they dont know anything. This is over a girls life/family. They should have enough balls to ask for help. Maybe they’ll learn something. I’m not against Arubans at all but they just need help b/c this type of case if really new.
LARRY,
The diference in your story is that the boys involved took her to a hospital, they didn’t friggin bury her body in the desert and lie to everyone for 3 weeks.
So, I don’t see a comparrision.
None of these 3 have even admitted that they know she is dead, let alone say it was an accident and they panicked.
Why is that? Because it wasn’t a simple OD or accident. I am sure they didn’t intend for her to die, but if you accidentally kill someone while you are trying to assault them, then you are a murderer.
I have to say that nothing NOTHING could be apprearing to be so slow and stupid- they absolutely have to be silently getting somplace- it just isnt the way our system works so diofficult for us to understand becasue we are the KING of leaks to the press… i just cant believe that we arent almost there… nobody can be this stupid, right? We have to be getting somewhere- i think mrs holloway knows this to otherwise more would be being said…
Larry Chicken, Your comments are right on time.
One caveat: no matter how poorly some details might reflect on victim, if it turns out she was brutally murdered, with no mitigating circumstances, then all bets will be off: Aruba (and US and press everywhere) will look to crush perpetrator(s), in a spectacle, and info on victim (including any poor judgment or inproper activity) will be publicized, no matter how much her family tries to prevent it. Ironic, huh.
CAS – All excellent points in regards to Larry’s comments. I have three questions for everyone: Do they ever find NH? Is this case ever solved? Do these boys end up going to jail?
Angela, that is exactly what I have been saying. They need to allow the FBI to conduct this investigation. They deal with this stuff on a daily basis.
As far as boycotting aruba goes. You can’t really blame an entire country for the stupidity of three young boys. I myself would go there in a heart beat if I had the means.
We live in a world where bad things happen everyday. You can’t turn on the news without hearing about someone being murdered or kidnapped. If we start barracading ourselfs in our homes will that solve the crime rate in our country? NO
How many days after she went missing did they arrest these three boys?
put it this way…. if you had an 18 year old daughter, would you let her go to Aruba?
NOT!
And believe me, a parent can say no. I hope this enlightens parents about what goes on there on trips made by groups of 18 year olds.
Connie, u had an excellent point; i never even thought about them covering up for their mistakes.. Very good point.
I agree with Connie, this seems to be an aberration for Aruba and not the rule in terms of serious crime. I would have trouble going there though or with my family knowing that this is how things like this are handled.
crs. It saddens me to say that I highly doubt they will ever find Natalie. The island is small surley by now they would have found something. The island is surrounded by shark infested oceans. I do however believe with my hole heart that this case will be solved, and that the boys will get exactly the punishment they diserve.
Sassy – Boys were brought in for questioning the day after she went missing, released, and then arrested nine days later.
next time i go to aruba… that van der sloot kid is on my hitlist..inclding the two surinamies
for free!
I do not think this body was originally dumped in the ocean, maybe if daddy got involved, it was eventually dumped at sea, but I think the body is on that island somewhere.
The next time you go to aruba the boys will be in prison, so I dont think your services will be needed.
crs I surely hope she is still on the island. It will be better closure for Nat’s mom.
susan i guess you didnt see cnn last night? a “lovely” drunk homecoming queen talking about drinking sex on the beach making you WANT to have sex on the beach- she was an IDDIOT saying what her parents dont know cant hurt them…belive me she would have NO CLUE if she got into the wrong car… parents are still letting kids go- and if they dont start policing the area better this stuff will keep happening! That little teen HORRIFIED me on the news… how she could have such disrespect for what was going on outside “her little world” good god
Anyone out there think the brothers are the one’s behind this and Joran is totally innocent, if so, give me your theory.
I’ve thought that from day one. Nat is a beautiful young lady. Who’s to say they weren’t jeolous because she was hanging more with Joran than them?
nope- i think the brothers were the drug dealers and the dutchboy had an “accident”
if it were the brothres dutch boy would be singing like a canary already!
The homecoming queen was defiantely a piece of work, let me ask this, if you saw the video you saw last night only of Natalee would you feel as bad as you do about what has apparantly happened.
If the aruban officials would tell us something I woudl be able to deside for sure who I think is the guilty person or persons in this. But since they aren’t telling us anything it’s really hard to make a dissision
yes, i would feel just as bad… but that chick KNOWS what is going on there right now- we know that this isnt crime free happy islandville now…ya know?
Connie, tell me how you think it played out from the time they left the bar and we all know for a fact they were all in the car, that is undisputed.
The Aruban government should IMMEDIATELY turn the entirety of the investigation over to the American FBI. Enough is enough. This is a circus.
when NH was there it was “the safe happy island ” that we have all been thinking for years- SURELY this is why parents allow it as opposed to canccun or lauderdale..
I have to be honest, I don’t think I would feel quite so bad.
the stupid prom queen on the news was just a dumb bimbo
Yes I would still feel as bad. She was a bit arrogant in the video, as well as dopey, BUT she was still in controll of her actions to some point. She was clearly intoxicated, but she was fully aware of her actions. I haven’t seen any vidoe footage of Nat, and we only have to go on what her friends say.
If you’re a woman, you have to just CRINGE when you see young girls acting like that homecoming queen. That kind of behavior CONTRIBUTES HEAVILY to the sexual objectification of girls. Men–even decent men–see that kind of behavior and think, perhaps justifiably, that the girl is just a sex object.
the fact that she sputtered on like that knowing what had happened to a girl a few weeks before- ignorant i hardly think nat would have been chatting like that if this had happened a few weeks before, she sounds too intelligent…she may have made a bad judgement but it wasnt BLATANT like the chickie last night0 I feel that it is a BIG difference
what is this video everyone’s talking about and is it viewable on the internet?
a sex object (if willing) IS MUCH DIFFERENT THANK BEING DRUGGED OR RAPED!
just becasue she was a bimbo on tv didnt mean she should be drugged or worse but she isnt defending herself too well from those typed of people with out saying a word… i am sure that her folks are MORTIFIED!
if NH’s mom saw that coverage i hope she tracked her down and SMACKED her across the face, eh?
I think that when Nat was leaving the bar ( and I do believe she left the bar with the notion of going back to the hotel and getting ready for departure) the three young men approached her and asked if she had a chance to visit someplace on the island (I’m honestly leaning toward a place they call the tunnel of love) She was seen with Joran on three seperate occasions, so she obviously “knew” him. Being young and her last night on the island she decided to go with. I do believe that roofies were used, The boys took turns and had their way with her. by them saying that something bad happened to her, I think she did od and the boys decided to ditch her body.
I am not saying if you saw this video of NH. I am saying if the homecoming queen had disappeared and this video came out, i do not think people would feel near as bad, i think the appeal of NH is she was by all accounts a good kid, the girl next door. If this had happened to the bimbo we all saw last night, I don’t think there is near the outcry. i think that girl’s parents probably would not have even shown up for three weeks.
Marie—I wouldn’t be so sure that her parents (if she has parents) would be that upset. Why? Because girls who come from GOOD PARENTS rarely act like that.
The Sloot and the brothers ain’t going anywhere just yet ….. they have admitted to fabricating the original story did they not? That alone qualifies them for making a false statement to authorities in a criminal investigation, and since the stipulation is that they were seen by witnesses together with Natalee when she was last seen …. I’d say they don’t don’t a prayer in hell ….. constant interrogations of all three, separately will eventually lead to the truth …. these boys think they’re bad …. we’ll see how bad they are.
One question: Why have the brothers’ residence(s) not been searched? How elementary is that?
i hope it isnt on the internet- if the american teen that was videod is only 14 it invades her rights…I wonder if the 14 yr old was drugged or if she know that she was being video taped? weird world these days…shame
Brianna – There was a video last night shown on CNN not related oto NH of a homecoming queen partying in Aruba and acting like an idiot even after what happened to NH and that is what we are talking about.
CRS—You’re entirely right. the fact of the matter is that America does not care about sluts. If something happened to that prom queen, no one would have cared. But Natalee Holloway is reputed to be an upstanding young woman, and that is why the country cares.
Billy you can not say that no one would care. People would care even with the video we saw last night. The fact that someone child is missing or feared dead sends shock to people everywhere.
Got to allow the brothers folks time to clean up too – they’ll get over there next week.
yeah- well i get it now… i can say that i woudlnt feel AS BAD- still would be disturbing, violence always is, but that little tart has NO CLUE what she is asking for acting like that, it made me sick and MORE sick becasue she is so clueless and egotistical that she acted that way with all of this going on…
piece of work, huh?
crs – bwwahahahahahaha, reminds me of the Hacking case.
Connie – could be on the od. I still don’t think this was totally calculated. I think he thought he could hook up with her and maybe became angry if she refused his advances. I don’t know the brothers did anything beyond help cover up.
If you’re going to go around, acting like a slut, something bad is going to happen to you at some point. But I just don’t think that such was the case with Natalee. I find it very hard to believe that this girl was going off to screw these guys.
I think thats the worst thing – that is a 14 year old CHILD acting like that. I got my last baby doll when I was 12. Times they are a changin’. Take that Nicole Kidman movie “Birth” for instance: suggest sex scene in a bathtub between her and a 10 year old boy. Then the Kevin Bacon movie where he played a pedophile….sad state of affairs we are in.
connie you are misunderstanding- scroll back and read everything- we are saying that if something had happened to this girl we wouldnt feel AS bad0 that certainly doesnt make anything right but- my gosh if you had only see her – it was shameful … chatting about drinking toomany sex on the beaches, made her feel like havin sex on the beach” it was just insulting to everyone./
Does anyone know if there are pics on the net of the two brothers after being arrested.
I’d like to see their facial reactions. I’ve seen Joran’s but not theirs
where is Joran’s? All I saw was a towel…if that was him…
Marie, my comment was to Billy he said that Nobody would care.
Anyone from Aruba listening, did they find anything on the remote part of the island they were searching for this AM?
This is the only news story that has NO NEWS.
Brianna – Go to cnn.com, scroll down to the Aruba story and there is picture of him coming out of court.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159730,00.html
click on his head shot
brianna- different cases- sorry i was typing too fast- 1) The girl on CNN last night was 18 she was a homecoming queen- bimbo)
I am not the best typer either!
2) the 14 year old is the supposed sex tape that one of the brothers made with an american tourist that they have been supposedly selling….people were asking if that was published and I was saying that i hoped not becasue the girl was only 14…
two separate situations
Usually news seems to start to filter out about 4 or so most days.
I’d like to get my handa on the SLoot and the brothers …. I’d make ‘em wish they had never been born
i see connie- thought it was becasue I said i wouldnt feel ‘AS BAD” if htis had happened to that girl, i was just being honest, nobody deserves anything bad i just wouldnt have felt AS bad for the promqueen bimbo…
An eye for an eye, Tit for Tat, What does violence for violence beget?
If this tape/dvd does exist, look out, I think that will really turn some heads and I wonder what the 14 year would have to say.
What does Aruban justice beget?
I don’t agree with an eye for an eye necessarily but i do hope at some point these boys, if guilty, and it seems so, suffer the same fate as natalee.
who knows if she even knows – she (14yr) could have been slipped a ruffie and not even known about a vidoe) people just suck
yikes i need to get back to work- take care all and i hope that something cracks soon!
Marie from Maine,
Shame on you. Getting drunk and being stupid doesn’t make her less a victim of someone else’s evil intentions.
Kids talk smack about sex all the time, saying it made her feel like having sex on the beach is stupid, immature, kind of trashy, but come on.
Shouldn’t we feel equally sad and sorry that any girl, no matter who she is or what she did or how much she had to drink would be raped and murdered and have her body thrown away like a piece of trash?
Yeesh.
Villain, the answer to your question is NOTHING.
Thank you Connie …. that was precisely my point
Marie, That’s what I’m thinking and you know the media will try and find this girl, I wonder if the Arubs are looking into that, we’ll, probably, get to looking into that in a couple months to keep up the appearance of a search.
This my 1st post.
I have followed scaredmonkeys, reihlworld, the big media ect. since Natalee’s disappearence. This is also the 1st time I have visited blogs, which I find very interesting although there are some really stupid posting that you must wade through.
Here are some thoughts:
- Islands are definately more liberal and lax compared to the US.
- Island people are close-nit. It’s a finite, small world there & EVERONE knows EVERYTHING.
- The Netherlands is very socially-liberal in their thinking and have an open society. I admire their social thinking. It’s unfortunate that the muslims have abused this and are now distroying their country.
- Aruba is the Dutch’s paradise. Although Aruba is not governed by the Dutch and have a much stricter drug policy, there are many Dutch on Aruba and that combined with typical island culture, I’m sure that drug use is island-typical and fairly accepted there.
-Mr. & Mrs. Van Der Sloot are probably very fine people. He a journeyman-judge (probably like a magistrate in the US) and her a teacher. Their sons are nice looking and have an upper middleclass background, smart and well like by their friends. These are well respected people in their community. They do not look like island bums to me. And, if Mr. Van Der Sloot is a practicing judge, he is constantly considering “what is the right thing to do” in his decisions.
-Joran is coming of age and hanging at the tourist bars. This is not accepted in the US but probably is in a tourist island setting.
-Natalee is smart, blnd/blnd, petite, beautiful, quiet, popular, and a peer group leader.
-Joran is smart, clean, good looking and fun to be around and looked to be a peer group leader
-The two met and clicked.
-They were probably really both smitten with each other. Probably couldn’t think (or talk) about anything but each other for a couple of days.
-They both probably looked forward to seeing each other that last night and had a fun time at the bar.
-Natalee would definately truct & go with Jorun to the beach for a last goodbye. Probably wanted some petting but not full sex.
-Joran’s goal was probably to have sex with her. It’s the goal of all 18 year old guys.
-Probably both looked at this as a beginning romance…not a one night stand.
I believe that what ever happened was an accident. I agree with Larry’s posting above. Kids don’t used roofies….they use X. X is know as a sex enhancer drug. And, it is very plausable that either Joran are somebody put X in her drink prior to leaving the bar. They have probably done X so they look at it as devious as we would. It’s part of their (young adults) culture.
For Natalee it was probably a first. Given the drinking and X, she would have been a good candidate for an overdose reaction.
But, I doubt that whatever happened was with any intent to harm Natalee. They were both smitten. Their friends would know this.
Whatever happend after the event is anyone’s guess.
But my point is, what would going down there and “making them wish they were never born” solve? Your need for a testosterone rush? Let the government (though incompetiant as they are) do their thing.
Violence for violence often begets peace.
it’s like this. The morality of kids that age (sorry to generalize) hasn’t truly been strengthend yet. They’re out on their own in an environment like that with no guidance. Partying is ‘cool’ at that age. So they go and party and Mom and Dad don’t know. Have you ever watch MTV ‘Springbreak’? What an eye opener. My sons tell me it isn’t the same world I grew up in.
We may never know what happened to Natalie, but this should be a warning to parents to keep an eye on their kids and give them some guidance.
CAS, I don’t think Marie meant anything, the jist was we don’t think people would feel as bad if they saw that video and that girl was the one who went missing, that is not to say we wish this upon anyone or would still not feel bad. It seems people relate more to NH because she comes across as very girl next door and very likeable.
Connie–why should we let incompetent people continue being incompetent?
um cas, you cant just hop in and start barking at people! I never said that anyone deserved ANYTHING, he asked me a candid questiona & i answered, If i should have lied that is fine …. but i was simply saying it still would ahve been sad but not as sad- becasue this girl was PUTTING HERSELF out for a bad situation, all the while knowing that natalees mother and people are worried to deathe over a terrible thing that had happened and she is disrespectfully being an airhead talking about wanting to have sec on CNN!!!! Nobody deserves to be a victem but you feel sorrier for some than others- PUH-leese! DOnt judge me or tell me what to say, you ahve NO CLUE who i am…
They act like bad-asses with an 18-year old girl who probably would not have hurt a fly
If Americans stop going to Aruba, that island will become a ghetto. They had better get this case solved fast.
WOOOOOOOOOO, tourist, i think we are taking a big leap on this mom and dad being good people, at the very least they are poor parents who set a poor example for Joran. i have no confidence this was just an accident, if it had been, there would have been no need for a coverup.
It’s pretty obvious to me that the officials there aren’t going to let the FBI take over the investigation any time soon. Incompitant as they are we have to deal with it.
Billy Says:
June 16th, 2005 at 1:57 pm
Violence for violence often begets peace.
Tell this to the families of all the men and women that have given their lives in war.
A few questions;
Anyone see the mother’s interview on Fox?
1-Where were Natalee’s roommates all-night? Why didn’t they report her missing until they were loading the bus? Maybe we should arrest them until they talk and why wouldn’t the mother comment on that? Also, seems suspicious her bags were already packed.
2-Chaperone’s allegedley flew a private jet to/from Aruba? What is going on? Why didn’t they check each of these girls in the morning?
3-Why wouldn’t the mother comment on the chaperones or their behavior in this whole thing? Why aren’t they down their searching with the mother?
Connie – I get my testosterone rush from making whoopie with my honey …. gently!!
I am in line with villian_buster. They may never have enough to get these guys for murder, but making false statements to authorities, obstructing of justice from refusing to cooperate during an investigation of a felony, etc. will get them at least some time behind bars. Concerning the question regarding whether or not they ever find the body and solve the case, I predict they will find the remains, but it will be skeletal and not much help in solving the case. And, as mentioned above, I think the boys will serve some time, although I am pessimistic they will rot in prison from a murder charge. I hope however, assuming Natalee is indeed dead, that I am wrong and this case suddenly cracks wide open.
It actually shouldn’t have been too hard once the stories began to differ. Give each a polygraph and determine which one is lieing then work on the others to build the case against the liar. They have a right to refuse a polygraph, but that just gives it away that they are guilty anyway. Surely, this is being done but just being kept from the press.
Cas—No. The fact of the matter is that America does not care about sluts. It never has. As late as the 1980s, many police departments didn’t even bother investigating the murders of prostitutes.
The Puritanical backbone of this country is firmly in place, and America does not expend energy on whores. America cares about middle class and upper middle class white people who behave in a way that comports with traditional American values. That’s why it cares about Natalee Holloway. Now you can debate whether that is morally appropriate, but it’s true regardless.
Thoughts on tourists post?
but it isnt our country to be barging in and doing things the american way with out their permission…. we can only hope that they actually might know what they are doing and letting us all think that they have nothing and are baffoons may be what they need so that they can solve the case WE HOPE! People my gosh we have local/ federal wars with our own country on “whos crime” this is…
Calling whatever happened to natalee an accident will help the crime stats in Arubs right? Pretend it is not a murder, call it an accident. Close the case as an accident and it looks great in the crime stats and the nice little Dutch boy gets off. How swett???
Honestly I have a little put off by the fact that they put that video on of the Homecoming Queen. The timing of that I think is really shitting and not helpful to Natalee’s case. In my opinion it was someone trying to make a point that these kids go down there get drunk and do stupid things. Almost an incinuation… Maybe after NH is found or this case is resloved more light should be put on these issues. Shitty timing
Connie—I have, and they agree.
What would you have done with Hitler? Try to reason with him? People like you got killed en masse during World War 2.
The news coverage on this story sucks. There are so many other stories that shouldn’t even be of concern at the moment.
Billy…..so now she’s a slut? yet he’s the one making videos and roughing up any girl he can lure off by himself?
Billy- we need to boycott the U.S. for not finding Bin Laden …after four years. Billions of dollars spent, countless lives lost, etc……..I mean , let’s use our head here or do you want to stick to your emotions after all?
Mike, this was no one’s fault but the boys, blameing NH’s parents, friends or chapperones is stupid. her bags were packed as were probably most of her friends because they knew they would be out most of the night partying, I do not see that as strange at all.
i think it is possible her friends are scared to get in trouble, and POSSIBLE way that nat went off to get something for everyone w/ the boys? like a joint to be able to get to sleep? poor kids i hope that they dont have something they feel that they have to hide aI am SURRE the guilt is hard enough already- agh I really REALLY need to work!
I am amazed at this family. No one should have to be put through this. I think they will find something in Joran’s computer to nab him. What I want to know is where did they put her? This island is miniscule. Is it possible that they know where she is, but just haven’t told us? From the beginning this investigation has gone in a direction that none of us thought. Anyone from Aruba, do they immediately report things in the press when they happen or is there a lag before the public officially knows about something? Here in the US, if they had the body we would all know about it. Is the media there able to get access to information quickly?
Too bad Joran did not wait until he came to the state to commit his crimes. He would be awaiting trial by now.
Mike,
Most people pact there bags the night before they leave. Everything excpet what they need to get ready that morning. It’s a timing issue not a suspecious plot. Her roomate fell asleep and reported it first thing in the morning. There were two groups one went on a private plane and some of the chaparones went on teh commercial flight. SO ALL the kids had some on their plane with them. WHy the hell should her mother talk about it. That will resolve nothing in regard to finding Natalee.
pktbk – The slut referral is to the BIMBO teenager on Cnn last night not Natalee- again guys dont just hop in and ASSUME that you now what someone is talking about scroll back and catch up first!
it’s a case of small town power plays. it’s sad that the officials are afraid of this one boy’s family.
Billy, starving Arubans by boycotting them, turning it into a wasteland……your comments sound very Saddam Hussein-ish, very Middle-Eastern Abu Nidal-ish…..hhhmmmm
Mecha—-You really take the cake for absurd comments. The reason that Bin Laden hasn’t been found is that the rest of the world is not committed to finding him. Moreover, comparing the search for one man who could be ANYWHERE over a several thousand-mile radius on the other side of the globe to the search for killers on a TINY island is absurd. Bin Laden is not in the United States, whereas killers of Natalee Holloway ARE on one TINY island.
It’s not like they have to comb across 5000 miles of land. It shouldn’t be that DIFFICULT! Have they gotten the clue that MAYBE JUST FRGGIN’ MAYBE they need to search on other islands?????????????????
They should get in trouble, every one of them. If as the mother said, they all hung out as a “group” then why didn’t someone jump in the car with Natalee when they left the bar?
The whole thing makes no sense. Having done a very similar trip, I would have never let a girl who would have been a good friend leave a bar with three locals. Also, her supposed girlfriends weren’t much of friends either to let her go with them and not report her missing until they were putting their bags on the bus.
If I was the mother I would file suit against the school, parents and kids. What a joke they are by calling them supportive of her and Natalee.
Billy Says,
I agree with you. It is sad but true, look at all the blame that has been placed on the poor girl for just getting in a car with Joran who she had been socializing wtih all week?
I guarantee you if Natalee had a bunch of web sites similar to Joran’s she would not still be in the news.
I think its one of the sickest parts of our country, that we let little girls turn themselves into sex objects, sex and porn are everywhere, everybody is supposed to be getting laid and having great sex but god forbid, something bad happens to a woman, she had better be pure as the driven snow, or no one will feel sorry for her.
Three Aruban boys vs. Hitler. Big difference there Billy, don’t you think?
I just read an article from a tourism site that quotes several sources within the Aruban tourism industry. They said that business is off DRASTICALLY.
ASDF – There is a lot of rugged terrain though, a lot of beach, a lot of ocean, a lot of caves, I can honestly see why they have not found the body.
To the poster that says teenagers don’t use ruffies you are way off. In both high school and college I knew of people (both from the straight crowd and the wild crowd) that (1) willingly took ruffies; (2) willingly took GHB. Not to say NH did, but the drugs are cheap and readily available both in this country and abroad. I know probably 50 people who have had GHB put into their drinks at clubs and bars- and unfortanately I can say that I know of three people who have died from overdosing on these drugs.
Also- no one seems to even suggest the fact that she could have died of alcohol poisioning. She was a petite 18 year old. If the kids were out drinking and partying the way it has been portrayed it probably was more alcohol than any high school keg party they had ever been to. Its all speculation …
crs…not to mention the area where they feed sharks.
If violence for violence begot peace then there would be no more war.
A timing issue???? They left the bar at 1:30 and got on the bus at 9:30???? Nice friends by not checking up on her. I need more friends like that (NOT!) They deserve to rot, too bad they are just as guilty are Joran and his friends in her probable death.
Mike, I don’t know if you are just trying to be outrageous but please.
Connie—First of all, not two minutes ago, you referred to people who have died for the country, so you were OBVIOUSLY extrapolating your “violence is not the solution” theory to situations WELL BEYOND this situation in Aruba.
Right but they should still be looking in other areas as well, not just Aruba.
Connie—-So, again, I ask you: WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE WITH HITLER?
WOULD YOU HAVE GONE TO WAR OR NOT?
Billy..Billy……four years…FOUR years!!!! Billions of dollars, sattelites, drones, paid warlords. Come on!! I sense an early onset of dementia due to the inability to conduct linear thinking and problem solving.
They had how many people searching for her last week??? Someone would have noticed something by now don’t you think? And, if every crevice hasn’t been checked, then shame on the government. This is not a big island. This investigation is being played out for the world to see at this point. This is not business as usual. They have to re-search everywhere. And, if they don’t, well, if I were her family, I would be on foot doing it myself.
Look at what happened to Elizabeth Smart………
NH may not be dead. They NEED to look in OTHER PLACES TOO.
I’m sorry, I will be the first to admit that I am a very opinionated person, but why have we stated attacking eachother? I’m sorry. I just realized what I was doing and it hit me. We all come here for one reason. To discuss what’s going on the Nat.
mECHA–You’re an idiot. Bin Laden is NOT IN THE UNITED STATES. Accordingly, finding him presents a much more difficult problem than finding 3 killers on a TINY ISLAND. The United State does not have carte blanche to rummage through Syria and Pakistan, whereas the Arubans DO have carte blanche to tear that TINY island apart.
I don’t know I think the focus of the search does need to be in Aruba, let’s be honest, we’re having enough trouble trying to find her there without watering down the resources.
just a point, good point about did the father purposely mislead the cops when they first arrived so Joran could clean up his apartment on the other hand it is not strange at all that Joran would call his father on his cell phone if he was actually out and just came home
can you imagine you come home and your mother would be freaking on you, the police was here, your father went out with the police looking for you, you better call him right now and let him know you are home……..
I remember vividly when the cops showed up at our door, my sister was involved in a hit and run, she fled, she was 16 and foolish, of course in those days we didn’t have cell phones, however did we survive and she was afraid to come home, she finally did…….
Connie, you’re right. We all need to get along. Lets all go to Aruba, everyone on this board, and we’ll create a Survivor type reality show.
asdf….so true. nine months later and she was alive.
Blaming Natalee or the chaperone, her parents or her friends for what Joran and his friends chose to do to her is simply making excuses for the Aruban boys. The only person’s responsible for the crime are the criminals. You are wrong to blame anyone else. If you remove the criminals, the crime would not happen period. None of the actions of anyone else would matter. You may remove any other person in the equation and a crime would still have most likely happened. If not Natalee, someone else. These boys had a hardon to make a movie or to kill a young tourist or whatever gets their rocks off that they needed to do that night. They planned it and did it. No one was going to stop them, they have been taught they are above the law and have help from Joran’s daddy if the law gets in the way of their fun.
ASDF—-Elizabeth Smart was lost in a HUGE COUNTRY: The United States. She could have been anywhere, so the fact that she did not turn up immediately was not as curious as the Arubans’ failure to find Natalee Holloway, who disappeared on a TINY island.
Billy this isn’t about hitler, or anything else. I’m simply saying that beating the crap out of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers wouldn’t solve anything
Traveler – There’s a saying here that if you don’t know anything you should just keep your mouth shut. No one really cares about what you “think” because you only threw out your unsubstantiated “wishes” as to how things were. The VanderSlut’s are not “fine”upstanding people as you picture them in your daydreams. Their pictures are plastered all over the Internet with the mother in see-through blouses, with the sons dirty dancing at parties where the parents are present. In nearly every picture you see of the VDS some family member has a drink in his hand. There are pictures of the father in obvious drunken disarray at parties where his sons are present. There is testimony that he frequented the casinos with his underaged sons. They are NOT fine upstanding citizens. They are SLEAZE. If you want to fantasize about this tragedy, do it on your own time, don’t waste our time by writing such irresponsible drivel.
Im a hater.
Tried to email you but your email was a fake. Send me an email and I will tell you how we can get you off of moderation.
Tom
tom@scaredmonkeys.com
Two and a half weeks and nothing on an island with all of those people searching. Continue searching Aruba but look in other places too. This is getting out of control.
except Billy it turned out Elizabeth Smart was being held just a few miles from home, she didn’t go very far, you can see her house from where she was held hostage
Mika, i would imagine she is not just lying somewhere where they will just see her, call me crazy but i think the boys would have enough sense to bury hury her or get rid of the body somewhere fairly creative. The only way she is found is if someone confesses and says where she is. You can’t just go dig up the whole island.
Connie–More crimes have been solved through rough interrogations than good police work. I guarantee you that this case would have been solved weeks ago if a few New York Police Department detectives had gotten a chance to work on these kids.
Connie – enough is enough ….. these assholes had better fess up and tell the fucking truth …. an entire family has been destroyed
and in Elizabeth Smart’s case, I believe they had searched that area several times and the creepy couple mush have just made sure they were ahead of the search teams
Billy, she was lost in one state over. That’s my point. If they haven’t found diddly squat on an island that is smaller than New Jersey, they need to start looking in other places!
O.K. Billy ..time to load up on some of your Respirdal or Depakote anit-psychotic meds. Don’t be so impatient….you’re like a little child who throws a hissy fit if he doesn’t get his way right away. They ARE conducting an investigation. These things take a little time. Aryba is a small island BUT THE OCEAN ARAOUND IT IS VERY BIG. Is that so hard to understand. Take a deep breath and practice some relaxation techniques.
I agree with Billy. There is something incredibly bizarre about this story. Why haven’t they given the family an answer, even if it’s hey, we think she drowned? How could they not have an answer after this long? It’s probably because there is so much shit underneath all of this. It wasn’t just a simple make out session on the beach. It was what sounds like an abduction.
when do we find out if joran’s dad gets visitation?
Villain, why are you cursing me?
pktbk – It’s already been decided that he can’t. From what I’ve read they are awaiting one more answer from a different judge.
sorry Billy, unlike maybe Gitmo you rough up the accused you have grounds for law suits and dismissal of charges, getting confessions thrown out based on co-ercion
any experienced interrogator, including military and intelligence will tell you you get more information if you can get the suspect to trust you or even identify with you
now if time is a factor, then you bring in Jack Bauer, LOL and let him manhandle them but in general
when you use torture etc the person is more likely to give you what they think you want to hear just to stop the pain, doesn’t mean it’s reliable information……
because if you get these guys yakking and comfortable, then they slip up……..I believe that is the actual rationale behind Camp Gitmo the Terrorist resort
Mecha—What does the size of the ocean have to do with cracking these suspects? This investigation ought to have been solved weeks ago, regardless of whether a body was found. This case isn’t a mystery. We have a well-known victim who disappeared after being seen with 3 well-known, identified, and incarcerated suspects. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT?
Traveler – I think you are right on the money with your theory. I have a feeling that they are going to come out soon with the truth. Isn’t that one of the first things you learn as a Judge in any country “Seek the Truth”.
thanks asdf.
Thank you Cancon!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can catch more flies with honey!!!!
They had a helicopter do a heat search last night and into the morning. Nothing showed up. Go elsewhere you *ssholes!
CANCON—Obviously, you try to be the suspects’ friend at first, but the fact that they have not gotten these kids to talk after this amount of time is prrof positive that that approach HAS FAILED. They need to avail themselves of different tactics.
If it was an accident as Travelor theorizes, there would of been no reason to lie and lie again and get rid of her body.
Afternoon All, I believe the 3 are all involved. Does anyone know how well the parents of the brothers and J’s parents know each other? Any word on when we will get decision on pops visitation?
Sex slavery trafficing is alive in well in Venezuela which is approx. 20 miles from Aruba. Possibilites are endless.
You guys are so damn opinionated. I am trying to strike a middle ground here, so I don’t get pummelled.
This case should have been cracked a long time ago. Even though there is the big ocean around Aruba, they have lots of control over that ocean. They know who comes and goes. They know exactly how the currents move. They have ships docking all the time.
I agree that there is a time for being nice, polite, friendly, and diplomatic. But at a certain point, that time ends.
What is so difficult? There is no Natalee!!!!!! If everyone shuts up and pleads the fifth and has a criminal psychotic mind that lacks empathy no investigator will get anywhere!!!! Even in the U.S. WHY IS THAT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND???
Don’t think about how you’ll crack under interrogation-which is what you’re doing by projecting what you think works-but put yourself into someone else’s mindset. THINK!!!!!
tremmor: i was wondering if the brothels had been discussed. have they even started to look in to that theory? i haven’t heard anything.
What police tactical brilliance!
A body search using heat-sensing technology from the air when the body has been missing for over two weeks …. enough said!
Exactly. Dontcha think if she was thrown out in the ocean that she would have crept up sometime ago? Look in brothels, other hotels, other islands nearby……..etc etc etc.
Me too since one of the brothers reportedly said he expected her to be in a brothel or crack house.
CRS,
I agree. That they were using helcopters last night say no one has confessed yet.
No one has confessed yet means either only 1 knows or all 3 killed her together.
It has been 6 days they have been in custody. Either the interrogators do not want to get a confession or this is the slickest trio of teenage rapist murderers I have ever seen.
Everything that went on yesterday may have just been for show, what do you expect to find in a house and cars almost 3 weeks after the crime?
were the aruba police trained in murder investigations at all? i was kind of nervous to find out that the judge makes all trial decisions. that in itself tells you something. one person deciding your fate? come on.
i did not realize how close venezuala was to aruba. wow. again, i’m shocked they haven’t mentioned looking there.
i may be wrong, but didn’t these boys have almost a week being free before they were brought in? that is a long time to clean this up. you know?
where is that security guard? Wasn’t it weird when he said, “I knew I wasn’t guilty.” Hello? Was there a question in his mind that he might have been involved after all? I thought that was a very weird comment. And, the whole story that was told to him by one of the brothers. That stuff just doesn’t happen in jail, does it?
This thing smells so bad.
pktbk – Ya, it’s also a long time to kidnap her and sell her off to someone else. How do you arrest someone a WEEK AFTER getting report?!?!?!
Mecha – that is the first thing you have said all day that I agree with- at this point if these kids keep their mouth shut they will walk at some point in the next couple of months.
If they were to admit that sex slavery was a possibility in the case and that she may indeed have been sold and shipped there to cover J’s gambling debt, it would kill the economy there even more than someone “missing”.
asdf-i agree. that was too long. and joran’s dad training to be a judge. i’m sure he had lots of info on how to cover this up.
is anyone buying the brothers setting up joran line?
Mika 1. You’re reading too much into what Mickey John said (2) don’t believe everything you hear from the media
i have beenfollowing this story from the beginning. i believe the boy did it, and the father assisted him with a cover up. i also think that the body will not be found and that the cops are covering up things as much as possible. i hope all americans remember this and stay out of aruba.
you know what else is disturbing. i have been hearing so much about how low a crime rate aruba has….if nat’s parents had not flown down and stayed there, like other crimes i’m sure, this would have been covered up.
tremmor – Not in the long run though. This story will come and go just like all of the others. In a year from now when this is solved, the island will return to it’s regular business regardless of the outcome of this case. It’s unfortunate but oh so true.
I will consider myself instructed.
Thank you Jake.
I really believe that we will find this to be an accident (due to X overdose), not accepting responsibility for one’s own actions and the crime is the coverup.
God bless Natalee’s soul.
No – I do not buy Joran’s story- that is why daddy wants to see him- to bitch slap him and tell him to shut the hell up.
I would not directly blame the parents, school, chaperones, but I do think people need to start taking a hard look at these types of trips. It was mentioned that the chaperones were there for any problems, but not really as chaperones, I don’t understand that. That little of adult supervision cannot handle that amount of kids. And even though it’s legal to drink at 18 in Aruba, should a group of 100+ American students who are not yet legally allowed to drink in the US go to an island with liberal drinking laws and only 7 adults? Should they really have been allowed to do this much partying? The kids on O’Reilly stated that they were “drinking responsibly” and that “noone seemed intoxicated” and that they were “all looking out for Natalee”, I think that is a bunch of crap and those kids are all hiding that it was a generally unsupervised non-stop party scene. Should it be any surprise why they picked Aruba with a drinking age of 18. Natalee’s roommate and friends are obviously in bad shape right now with guilt, but I think those closest to her DO need to start talking. All this “hush hush” for fear of hurting the investigation is stupid, time is already not on our side, we need all those kids to spill it all regardless of consequences while we still have time to possibly find Natalee. One single miniscule clue or something seen could be the difference right now, putting a gag on all of them is plan stupid in my opinion. Those two on O’Reilly were acquaintances I think, I’d really like to hear what her “close friends” have to say. Young girls talk, if she had hung out with Joran prior she must have said something to her friends. I don’t believe she was stupid enough to just leave and tell nobody, that just does not make sense. Even if she knew him for 3 days she would have at least said “hey, joran is driving me back to the hotel” or in the day’s previous “I think Joran’s hot, he asked me to go the beach my last night here”. I just don’t get it, some other people must have information that can help.
crs-what don’t you agree with?
Marcie – you speak the truth!
Pappy is correct. More people need to start talking. It could be the littlest thread that ties everything together.
Ay Pappy…..right on..good point!!!!
Mech – i would have to read back for specifics but i did not really remember agreeing with much of what you said until the comment that if they are smart they just shut up at this point. It seemed like you were talking crazy like Mike and Mika, no offense.
asdf–Not sure I agree this time. We Americans DON’T FORGET.
If it comes to light the truths of sex slavery, what American parent would send their child to such a place (unless of course you are the same type parent who would let your child sleep with Michael Jackson) This has and will continue to cripple the economy of Aruba and rightfully so. What a botched mess.
I, like most people ,am holding out hope for Natalee to be found alive. The three stooges (no insult intended to Moe,Larry and Curly) stink like shit. They are doing the right thing holding them and continuing their investigation.
check this out:
I am a proud American and love my country. My family (and friends) are hard working tax payers with lots of different talents and some of us are U.S. military veterans. That being said, in 2005 our American society has become a SEWER in many ways, mainly because of a small group of influential media “mommys boys” like MTV (which started out as a good idea,now it is crack cocaine level retard programming for zero attention idiots regardless of their age,aimed mainly at urban markets which unfortunately ends up negatively and UNREALISTICALLY influencing the entire country and people like Natalee) Also, tabloid programs,advertising (Paris Hilton for Carls Jr. – you know Paris – the do nothing except drink ,consume and videotape toilet bowl porn videos / heiress and greedy materialistic B list print model (“actress” ? yea right!!) who makes such a great example,image and role model for young American girls) and so on. How does this all tie in? Simple.This”take,take,take” and “do nothing” (Britney-Paris-Jessica-insert any generic selfish bottle blond retard) mentality is directly connected to the half assed, alchohol and drug soaked climate Natalee Holloway found herself in (along with 100 + of her ’05 classmates)in Aruba. Not that her blondness had anything to do with it (brunettes and red heads make mistakes too). In all fairness, there is nothing wrong with celebration (in balance) or drinking in moderation. There is everything wrong with all of us as Amercans accepting this growing PLAGUE of shallow vanity,greed, and selfish mantras that are perptuated by a small group of sissies in print and Television media. Nothing good will ever come of it. Just think of all of the other Natalees you will never hear about. Think about the random acts of assaults,robberies,rapes and murder that this UNREALISTIC cultural influence called media helps to increase each hour,each day,each year ,each decade and so on… I am neither left nor right wing,democrat nor republican, religious nor athiest. I am American. My viewpoint is an observation of FACTS not judgement or opinion (you can get that cheap BORING shit on any street corner or from any (retarded) big mouth nowadays). We need competition soon in the Television media for new music channels(MTV sucks and millions agree) that play to wider demographics and musical tastes (not just dumbass short sighted “spring break” (retard) urban markets) How about improved entertainment channels that tell it like it is with balance instead of the current “brown nose and suck up to celeberities one minute and back stab them the next” tabloid GARBAGE programming? We need the same changes and improvements across film and print media as well. Media that cares. Media that feels. There is no secret to great ratings or viewership or readership. GIVE PEOPLE REAL STUFF WITH MORE CREATIVITY,EXCITEMENT AND NEW RESULTS DRIVEN IDEAS THAT A LOT OF US CAN RELATE TO (REGARDLESS OF AGE,GENDER OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION) FOR A CHANGE, INSTEAD OF PLAYING US ALL FOR RETARDED SHEEP W/GREEDY CRACK COCAINE SEXPLOITATION, BLING BLING, “REALITY”(YEA RIGHT!! HOW FAKE CAN YOU GET!!) BULLSHIT.
In the name of finding Natalee alive and learning from this example of negligence (shame on the parents, the chaperones and the fake friends) I am sharing my contibution to this message board from the heart.
G.
G defiantely had a lot to say i will let you know what i thought in six months when i am done reading it.
This was murder, plain and simple. If it was an accident , then if they recovered the body while it was still in tact. it would have shown that. However, by not telling where the body is – it continues to rot (especially there with the heat and humidity) and that makes it harder to ascertain the actual cause of death. So if they ever do find her, unless there’s a bullet in her head we’ll never know the cause of death. And that’s exactly what they want.
crs-LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right, not necessarily forget and with all due respect, no one will ever forget 911 but people still tour NYC and plenty of places overseas.
Billy’s back making sense again- this was no accident people!
I believe Jorans daddy want to talk to his son and tell him to confess….. daddy already KNOWS HE WILL NEVER BE APPOINTED JUDGE in Aruba or the Netherlands…. neither wil his contract ending janury 1st 2006 be extended.
Although I still question why his daddy tries to speak to him and not his mother ??? Daddy sloot was/is also a professor at The university of Aruba, a very nice and easy going guy however for the same reason I believe he could not handle his son Joran, the spoiled brad brutally did something “bad” to Natalee…. whatever that means.
And for all of you still thinking Aruba police and the Jjustice system covers for daddy Sloot I can tell you Arubans do not Like DUTCH, as simple as that, so if they can nail Joran and his daddy together they will try to do this !
And believe it or not racism DOES exist in Aruba…. they prefer Yankees over Dutch and White over Black ….. and Arubans over Foreigners. Have lived there 10 year and I know !
Still I believe it is ONE HAPPY ISLAND and are anxoius to travel this august for a two week of vacation…
Come on pathfinder, it does not matter if they like the dad or not, this case ending as missing person case is in the best interest of aruba not a messy murder/rape. They will coverup for the sake of the tourism industry not because they like or dislike Joran’s daddy. Daddy is definately not going to tell him to confess.
Hey, crs- did you say I am talking crazy? Meet me at high noon tomorrow.
Living here in Alabama, I have heard many reports that Nat’s family is having some financial difficulty because of this. Holiday Inn is letting them stay there for free but all other expenses are on the parents, flyers, off terain (spelling) vehicles, etc. I think this is a shame. Perhaps we should start a NH family fund to help. I know if it were my child, I would not come back home without her either.
has anyone seen how homely joran’s parents look? yikes.
tremmor – Do they not have a fund send up yet? That should be a priority in your state, one would hope and I would definitely help the cause.
Mostly Mike was talking crazy.
Hey G can you send your opinion in Powerpoint or Adobe format next time………….Jiminee Christ and General Jackson!!???!!!?
I am thinking someone in Alabama, a church or something has had to set something up for them.
Mecha -LOL!
i’m pretty sure someone has set up a fund. they usually do. unless her friends from school making the prayer bracelets are all that’s being done.
well I would not make a very good Interrogator…I think I would be beating the crap out of these three instead of fluffing up their GD jail pillows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok…let’s start attacking Joran’s parents appearance…..very mature!
I believe there have been private donations from B’ham businesses and friends. Have heard NO reports on a “formal fund” such as a bank account set up for donations. The reports of the financial stress came out just yesterday. I will check into this further.
Look at this.
http://www.martin.isnw.org/lekkerdoelloos/paginas/joran.html
Here I go again talking crazy. This Joran is only a kid. How in the world did he do something like this?
All I can say Mika after looking at that page is I hope his brothers don’t end up a nut job like him.
Mika – remember, it’s not proven yet. But I think that you answered your own question. “This Joran is only a kid. How in the world did he do something like this? “
Yeah, I know. I live in NYC. Even kids can do stuff like this.
I’m not happy about the reporting – what Americans need is a map! I have my map of Aruba from when I went there and I actually stayed at the Holiday Inn at the time. If you plot out what the media says as to their route – I think they said they went to the lighthouse, then you could make certain assumptions as to the routes they took – and start looking along the route – the police would know best what routes the locals would take.
I don’t think they ever went to that lighthose or the marriott, they took her somewhere else, very remote, that is the only thing that would account for no one seeing or hearing anything.
The three boys will be charged with various crimes at the end of the investigation. felony kidnapping, filing a false police report (another felony), felony rape (sexual relation with a drunk person),…..
They will offer a deal in exchange for identifying the location where Nathalee is.
He didnt it was an accident, The media has to have someone to blame, if anyone has ever taken sociology then you would know the term (scapegoating) “dutch boy” was the last one with her so “ducth boy” gets blamed, I pray every minute for Natalee, but right behind those prayers I also pray for Joran, he is not what peole are making him to be, step back for 1 second and think if this was your son…….They were having a summer fling…hello!
send my boss over to Aruba……….he’d get to the bottom of this for sure!!
What I have a hard time figuring out is why can’t they get to the bottom of this. I actually lived and worked in Aruba for 9 months back in 99 and 2000. I never would have thought that something like this could have happened there on that island. There are some real sicko’s out there.
Tremmor – I’m from B’ham, AL. McWane has provided transportation for the family and volunteers from here. A formal fund has not been set up though. I wonder where the reports of financial difficulty are? They are from Mountain Brook which is the “rich” suburb of Bham. Not to say it’s not possible, them not working and all, but I think they probably have really good paying jobs with really good benefits like emergency leave. Please don’t think Im trying to be insensitive, if I had something to donate I would, but I know alot has been done already and I’m not sure cash is needed. Maybe other things, like food, lodging, etc.
Lollipop, do you know Joran?
lollipop….even though several of his ‘friends’ have come forward and told about his anger problems? if this is all on using him as a scapegoat, then why keep the other two non dutch boys?
They were having a fling, he wanted sex, she didn’t, he suffocated her. At the very least he has been lying to police, innocent people do not need to lie.
We don’t know what the Aruban police has already collected as evidence. But with the little we know, it’s clear the three boys committed several crimes, and they won’t walk out of jail anytime soon.
Sorry, Im kind of jumping in and out of this (Im at work….probably should be working…:))
By your screen name lollipop, I assume you are female and have simply fallen for what some say are Joran’s good looks.
WHAT GOOD LOOKS?!?!?! Natalee was way out of this kid’s league
lollipop what makes you think they were having a summer fling that lasted only 1 night? where do you get this info?
lollipop put your steel guard up because you are about to get hit.
what? the luring tourist girls to secluded areas league?
Ydave, at best they have them on lying to police. By all accounts she was not kidnapped from the bar and really we have no other solid evidence other than heresay.
I keep wondering about what followed next after the one brother stated that “something bad happened to Natalee.” This sounds like someone on the edge of a confession. Any decent interrogator who can get someone to that point, ought to be able to bring the rest out, particularly if they play the “let’s make a deal and get out of jail free” card. Thoughts anyone?
pktbk, well….you got a point. Here in her hometown, he’s not so hot. maybe because he’s dutch down there. that don’t fly here.
Note I said “What some say are good looks”. ASDF, you see that coming too?
NDC- agreed. That was the beginning of a confession. Someone put a cork in that.
Why?
ndc….that makes sense. if they are seperated and deals are made, you would think they would spill it. maybe there are more people involved and if it gets out one ratted, it’s going to be worse if they don’t go to jail.
Lollipop could be right. So could crs. So could any one. Prayers certainly are in order for all of them!
ndc, yup, I agree. They do it with drug busts! You get off scott free if you rat the dealer out!!!! I don’t understand why they don’t offer them a deal.
No I am a happily married mother of 2 and got the screen name from my 4 year old as he was asking for one! Anyway, I am just very open minded and I have a huge heart, I can’t see placing blame with 0 evidence, show me some evidence and Ill change in a split second, but for now, he is just as innocent as the rest of us….. I do not know him at all I live in America, I am just trying to see both sides, the summer fling part is because they had been seeing each other from the 2nd night of the trip, read up!!!!!!!
crs – that’s an interesting point – why take her to such a remote place when you can do everything and anything right there in the car? And let’s not forget – this is not Las Vegas – 2-3 o’clock in the morning on that island is very late. Most of the people there cater to the tourists at hotels or at the shops and have to be up in the morning. So for that matter the logical thing to do was to bring her back to dutch boy’s place – and its probably THERE that she was killed and THERE is where she is.
crs, um yes. Hate to say but I’m going to anyway. Idiot. I don’t feel one bit or ounce of sympathy for him.
I think after the kid said that the interrogator told him don’t say anything your going to blow the coverup and i will pretend like I did not hear that.
Local news reports as well as Cable news. Just because they’re from Mountain Brook doesn’t make them rich. I can only imagine what this is costing them. I know several people who live in high priced neighborhoods who are in debt up to their *&%. Not saying they are but if you had to loose work, and pay for all expenses of this trip in searching for someone you loved except for lodging, could you imagine the cost? Since you are in B’ham, perhaps you could set up a bank fund to help and send us the bank name and information for us to contribute. Someone needs to.
There are no deal in Aruba. They do not have plea bargains because most get out of jail free anyway.
Goodpoint lollipop. She could have decided to take that one last final swim, you know nice beach, far away island, feeling tipsy. The trade wind blows out of the North-East, very gusty and away from the hotel towards the open ocean, and she could have drowned and been carried out to sea. By the time they sounded the alarm bells late in the morning, it was too late. Search and rescue later and the next day…..no way that you’ll be found. You’ll be out drifting towards Panama accompanied by Oceanic White- tip Sharks.
Billy, or where she WAS…like two weeks ago when they should’ve been searching.
Right Mecha, so then why didn’t he say that right away, they could have searched for her and more than likely found her if it was an “accident”.
Billy, I was thinking the same thing. I think the lighthouse and the Marriott stuff are a bunch of nonsense. He could have taken her to his apt. It seems like he had a lot of freedom from his parents.
island hopper…is this to keep the aruba is crime free slogan going?
Lollipop – Please explain why he has lied atleast once already in the changing of his story.
tremmor, I think that’s a great idea…the rich issue is kind of beside the point…I will see what I can find out. Usually the bank chains will hop on this kind of thing because, sadly, it’s good PR. If the reports have come out, i suspect it won’t be long before one of them will. I just hope it’s a national bank instead of SouthEast concentrated, like Amsouth or Southtrust. Im not sure if we have any national banks…
Well, I lean more toward the accident side, maybe something did happen with him, but I dont think it was cold hearted, in every picture you see does he look like a coldblooded individual or like a fun loving kid having the time of his life? I think maybe it was an alcohol related accident and they were scared, who knows, I just cant see the guy clod blooded killing this girl and then strategically getting rid of everything so quickly! Innocent until proven guilty!!!
There is only one reason the boys lied. To cover up a crime they committed. Joran immediately contacted his father for advice, that is why he was with his father at the casino when the polis went looking for him. Why hasn’t the father been arrested for helping to cover up the crime?
Mecha- If she just drowned why are the boys always making up new stories, that makes zero sense at all.
wife beaters smile in family portraits too…
i’m not pointing the finger, i’m just saying. i have trust issues. lol
Lollipop, I can understand what you’re saying, but you can’t judge a book by it’s cover…. I mean, look at a picture of any criminal and knowing no background he would probably look harmless. Look at Ted Bundy.
Someone, please call child services and get Lollipops kids, we are now basing murders on how people look? What are you 12?
There is no way this was an accident.
Yes, plenty of pretty pictures of family portraits.
NOt arguing for his sake at all just trying to shine the light for both, you cant bury him just yet, The other two arent telling on him for some reason, if he did it then why havent they told by now, Im sure they would have turned on their friend by now if they were completely innocent but everyone is “dutch boy” bashing!!!!
Without knowing what he did, I mean….
dutch boy….isn’t that some type of product? not made any more? any older people that can tell me? floor wax or something like that?
Lollipop
He accidentally killed her and then hid her body like garbage but he’s a nice fun loving kid?
It has been over 3 weeks her mother has walked the island for 3 weeks, no one but a KILLER would watch this happen and say nothing. If it was an accident he would have said so long ago.
I am sure the closest we will ever come to a confession, if we ever get to that point, is that he will say it was an accident, but I don’t believe it.
Natalee’s body was hidden to make sure no one would ever know what really happened to her that night.
lollipop – Dutch boy was the last person with her and the most reasonable suspect that Natalee would choose hence the “dutch boy” bashing!
lol, You guys take this stuff very seriously!I certainly know that you cant judge by pix, however you can read into them alot, not enough soc classes apparently. Its o.k. I just know there are 2 sides to every story.
crs – funny But you know Lollipop is correct. Innocent until proven guilty. What if the guy is innocent?
it was a blue container with a little boy on it in a shorts type outfit with the cape….blue and white…
he was last known to be with her. so of course the light is going to shine big on joran. the boys aren’t talking because they were involved in helping him. they are just as guilty.
island hopper saying they don’t do plea bargains…another reason they aren’t talking.
Here is what I think (please keep in mind that I have no background in law, investigation, etc.-but, I have taught seniors for 10 years). The majority of high school students are truly good people that rarely set out to hurt anyone in any major way. I hve seen the best of the best sit in my room and cry because they feel they have let their family down (DUI, pregnancy, etc.) The pressure they feel to look good in the community is unmeasurable. I have talked to parents who refuse to believe that their child could make a bad decision. The parents feel the same pressure from their peers. It is an endless cycle of don’t embarras me. What does that have to do with this case? Nothing in terms of whether or not a crime has been comitted. What troubles me about the entire situation is this- We paint a picture of an individual with the colors of our choosing. This is what we have done with Natalee and Van Der Sloot. Most of us, if we have lived life to any degree, have portions of our past (or present) that, if isolated, could make us look like the hero or heel. We want Van Der Sloot to be heel (he sure looks like it) and we want Natalee to be the hero (she sure looks like it). I just believe that we rely too heavily on what the media has dictated we should believe.
ASDF and CRS…because they are young kids!!!!! If you interrogate someone long enough and scare them they might concoct stories to get the blame away from them. Joran could have made out with her next to the Holiday Inn, they might have had an argument, Joran and the two others went home when Natalee began crying regreting whatever she just did and said “leave me alone I walk to my hotel”. She might have decided to take a swim and with the alcohol combination it could have decided her fate. Joran and the boys could have concocted the story that they dropped her off to tell the world that they DID look after her, when in fact they should have walked her to her hotel. It’s a possibility.
lollipop – logoff.
Damn lolipop I didn’t think it was possible might you might really have fallen off the turnip truck.
anybody…..that’s going to drive me crazy….sorry to get off subject
Accidents are reported. This was no accident.
What about the other 2 boys? why are they deemed innocent? if they were innocent, why havent they told on Joran and freed themselves?
Paint or starch or something
brianna…i thought it was flour. might have been a borax type cleaner though.
How many times do I have to say this: INNOCENT PEOPLE DO NOT LIE!!
hey crs – It makes too much sense that it would take you 6 mos to read my posting – you cant even spell – (check “defanately” correction: definitely) based on some of your postings you dont have much of anything to say – just what we need less of -zeros with too many opinions and no substance (duhhh???)) also Mecha-Godzilla its hilarious that you can diss the posting yet perhaps youre a bit too mentally challenged to comment on the content which is bigger than you because its true – now lets hear some semi intelligent responses from some of you other geniuses on my posting – or is it too much to ask for you to read (or write) more than one sentence. come on, I know you have it in you – i guess the truth about the retarded selfish climate in our society (that led to Natalee Holloway and many other idiotic tragedies) hits too close to home for some of you Einsteins …
yeeeeehahhhh
much love to all,
G.
Dutch boy paint
Brianna, Exactly! where she was two weeks ago – they’ve had plenty of time to get rid of the body. and that’s why i’d be really shocked if the body turns up. Mecha – they said they left her off close to the hotel – yeah right – midnight swim? Yeah, she cut through all the scrub brush and did I tell you that island is covered with lizards? When I walked in daylight from the Holiday Inn to the next hotel which was about two blocks – there was a sidewalk but nothing but scrub brush between the hotels and as I walked I could hear a rustle in the scrubs – hundreds of lizards running away from my foot steps. And as I think of it, when I went out to the pool at the holiday inn, one morning there was a lizard in the pool. So I don’t think any girl would go into the scrubs drunk or not b/c she would be afraid of those liazards – no, you go into the hotel – through the lobby and out past the pool and down to the beach.
Come on Lolipop, these posts have to be a joke, am I on hidden camera, no one has said the brothers are not responsible, I think many of us believe they helped cover up if nothing else.
I think it was flour. Dutch Boy Flour. maybe. Im just glad someone else remembers it. Im not so old or so crazy afterall.
lollipop…see the posts about plea bargains. if they were innocent, they would have been let go like the security guards.
Gregory Fairy– Sorry you’re right, I should not make fun of your homo sexual procilivity
http://www.dutchboy.com/
No it was paint!!! I dunno…..I give up. Back to more important things…
thank you mecha!
O.K. crs, yes we all have opinions and you may have yours! its o.k. thats why we live in the grand USA! I can only imagine if it was your son they were accusing with absolutely no evidence at all! then Im sure the story would change, but for now you may have the floor!
Thanks Rob, you’re a lifesaver. I mean brainsaver. Because that was a waste of my thinking power.
Mecha – Greg is mad at us.
While I know we make unbelieveable pronouncements here, I don’t think he is innocent. An innocent person would have called for help had she overdosed or drowned, etc. He has had plenty of time to tell the truth. The mother and family have been walking the island for almost 3 weeks. The mother was there the same day she was supposed to return. They went to his home. He apparently stood there and lied to her about his activities. Was there any sympathy given to the family on the part of Joran’s family? Your son was the last person to see a missing girl alive? My parents would have turned me upside down and shaken the truth out of me.
I can see it now. Coming to a theater near you!! ( “Dutch Boy” Paradise Murderer).
But knowing the Arubian laws, if it was an accident, he would have been treated the same, doesnt matter, that is why it wasnt reported. do you only read this post and form opinions or have you kept up with this case?
CRS……that’s typical for most flaming queens; they can’t handle challenges or discussion. All they can do is slap you silly with their Gucci Man-Bag purse.
It would be hard to have very much evidence sfter Joran and his father had so much time to destroy the evidence thanks to the Polis chief. Why did it take 13 hours for the polis to interview Joran and the Brothers? Where they waiting for Natalee’s mother to show them where he lived? Did they have trouble finding the white Aruban boy named Joran that hung out at the casinos and bars named Joran that was identified by her classmates as the last person seen with her?
Lolipop – like others have said just log off – you lost all of us once you equated someone’s looks to whether or not they are capable of murder.
lol man bag purse
Arubian law…..seems like there is none to me. No consequences for your actions anyway, from what I’ve heard. No death penalty. Someone could kill 50 people on that island and gut them and leave them out for the seagulls to eat and get a slap on the wrist.
crs…but she took a sociology class.
Mecha -Your killing me! Too funny!
It would be hard to have very much evidence sfter Joran and his father had so much time to destroy the evidence thanks to the Polis chief. Why did it take 13 hours for the polis to interview Joran and the Brothers? Where they waiting for Natalee’s mother to show them where he lived? Did they have trouble finding the white Aruban boy named Joran that hung out at the casinos and bars named Joran that was identified by her classmates as the last person seen with her?
Are you guys homophobic?
Gentlemen,
Please lay off the gays and talk about Natalee.
Thanks
Tom
tom@scaredmonkeys.com
Lollipop – With all due respect, you can read up on this case on every news site and still I don’t think anyone can say they are really keepin up with it. Information is too vague and ever changing, this is why we have so many speculating.
It makes perfect sense to me now. If you had an apartment and you’re with a drunk girl where would you take her? To Lover’s Lane? No – you could be seen. and banging her in the car is so uncomfortable. To your apartment where you have all the comforts and privacy? Uhmmmm? which one would you chose?
AH-HA, the sociology class, I forgot, jiminy christmas I did not really believe people thought like that.
Im going to do some work. Later, God Bless
It would be hard to have very much evidence sfter Joran and his father had so much time to destroy the evidence thanks to the Polis chief. Why did it take 13 hours for the polis to interview Joran and the Brothers? Where they waiting for Natalee’s mother to show them where he lived? Did they have trouble finding the white Aruban boy named Joran that hung out at the casinos and bars named Joran that was identified by her classmates as the last person seen with her?
I hate that word, “banging”. Please…..Billy.
Billy – I am glad that you too are thinking outside the MSM box.
http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/
The fact that Gregory “Fairy” Banks write his I’s as i (lower-case) indicates that he’s from the U.K. A lot of “light-in-the-loafers” characters over there with horrible tea-stained teeth. (british accent) “Hello, I’m Gregory…would you like to play with me twigs and berries???”
Claire- What is the purpose of the link?
hi everyone…just checking in to see whats new
did they ever clarify or does anyone know why they would eb using heliciopters with heat sensors …they must think she is alive?
That’s it. He took her to his apt. It’s a rap.
Lollipop get with it if it was my son I would beat the hell out of him myself.
what do you mean the purpose? it’s definitely on topic!!
Actually not just one class, I graduated from UVA with my Master’s In Sociology and now teach college courses at VCU, I got a degree in Sociology because I was so intrigued by people like you. I praise you guys that have nothing better to do than blog all day, there are some that actually enjoy their life and don’t need to sit around criticizing another’s opinion, when in fact what you are saying is only opinon as well.
What’s it about before we all go there, give me the crib notes please.
I’ll back off Tom….promise
I dunno lollipop, I really don’t have anything better to do.
Regardless of “who done it”, Vander Shit for Brains is splashing in the shallow end of the gene pool for sure.
well someone went to the pains of putting EVERYTHING on there-just look-u need high speed connection though
Good for you Meche.
Anyway, I think Godzilla was gay.
Lolipop – If you are real and I doubt it, how does an educated person equate looks to murder?
Lollipop & Larry Chicken,
I agree with both of you.
Accident (probably drug/alcohol), panic, coverup and failure to accept responsibility.
an unsolved mystery that can be related to anyone we know…of course we get sucked in.
replying to people’s opinions just jazzes things up a bit!
what is it with ‘LITTLE DUTCH BOYS’ , IT REMINDS me of a case in the old country (the netherlands) where a young girl was blugeoned to death, the little dutch boy in that case, AFTER THE KILLING,caught the 1st boat out of the country to the u.s., his name was “Andreas Cornelius van Kuijk” better known now days by his assumed name COLONEL TOM PARKER of ELVIS PRESLEY FAME, IN MAY 1929 IN THE DUTCH CITY OF Breda,Colonel Tom , AGE 19,killed a young girl, caught a tramp steamer to american, upon arrival BURNED all his dutch I.D. and started on his way to be COLONEL TOM PARKER, . true story, documented in the book, “the colonel, the true story, by Alanna Nash.
I heard on the local news last night that they have an underground bunker in their yard. No nothing was said what was in it. In Aruba we don’t build our houses with basements cause we don’t need them, so why have a bunker in your yard. So much is being said, you don;t know what is true and what’s a lie anymore.
The original Godzilla was a little soft, I agree. That’s why he returned to the Nubula 7 galaxy and came back to earth Mecha(King)-Godzilla. There were a lot of monsters that became superior to Godzilla like Mecha-Ghidorah, Gigan, and Rodan. hence the need to improve.
TLC – are you from Aruba? A bunker???
did anyone stop to think that maybe he took the girl directly to his garage apt. after he slipped something in her drink? Her friends said she appeared to be fine as they were leaving the bar, joran had his buddies go get the car, the 4 went to joran’s place, natalee fought and started to scream, they/he had to silence her for fear the parents would hear, and in an attempt to keep her quiet, put a pillow possibly over her face and she suffocated. He had to somehow dispose of her body. The “fluid” found in the trunk of the honda could be her bodily fluids that leaked out while they were driving around, trying to decide what to do with her body. Any landfills around Aruba? I’m sure there has to be! Just my thoughts…………got my steel armor o, so fire away.
Where is NH father in all of this? I don’t understand why people are not talking more than they are.
Meche- that’s a “fabulous” explanation. You look marvelous>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ASDF – they keep saying he is there but to my knowledge he has not done any tv or even radio.
I never said just because he looked a certain way he didnt murder Natalee. I simply said, as any Sociologist would, scapegoating because of the Media is not an accurate was to prosecute someone. I was never defending Joran, I was just trying to open up people’s one sided minds and give him the benefit of the doubt because everyone should be innocent until proven guilty. We are quick to label someone guilty because of the “facts” given in the Media and everyone knows the Media is out for a good story line! Anyway, you CAN attribute looks to many things, it is called Somatology, read up on it sometime, until then enjoy your day. Sheldon stated that Mesomorphs are more prone to deviance…Society the Basics Seventh Edition
I’ll tell you this, I would not have wanted to have been in the room when NH’s dad questioned little dutch boy way back when. I bet old dutchy about peeded in his pants.
please tune into ESPN2 Saturday night, when I’l be fighting in the Sumo basho competition for the title of Yokozuna. It’ll be me, MusashiMaru vs. Takanohane.
NH father was on TV last night
I saw the father on TV. I cannot believe he is even able to speak. These people are amazing. I dont know what they are made of. The mother sounds very religious. I hope that gives her strength. How can they endure anymore of this?
How’s this? – dutch boy takes the girl to his apartment – somehow she winds up dead. He tells daddy – he and daddy put the body (either whole or cut up) nicely wrapped for the garbage the next day. As we have come to know – they separate their garbage so that the scraps can be sent over to the sharks as chum and the non-food items are sent elsewhere. Now two weeks later dutch boy is arrested – but for sure he can’t crack and tell them what happened to Natalee because he would implicate his father so he has to stick to the story and protect dad and himself.
no knows what they mean by a technical investigation with helicoptors…
Billy that is a little over the top…..
Billy sounds like you are on the right track, not cold blooded, accident, daddy helped out……hmmmmmm, we’ll see!
Mika- Yes to both questions. Gotta go for a minute,
SOUNDS POSSIBLE TO ME BILLY……… BUT I DON’T THINK THE PARENTS KNOW. I DON’T THINK HE WOULD TELL THEM FOR FEAR DAD MIGHT TURN HIM IN……
i agree with billy- i ahdnt thought of that angle w/ the appartment!
Billy sounds right on the money.
What about my theory? No comments?? Similar to Billy, but not quite as graphic. I don’t think they cut her body up, just disposed of it.
Vanessa – I think dear of dad has been covering dutch boy’s ass for a few years, so I totally believe that he would have gone to dad for help simply b/c up until now, dad was always able to fix things and make them go away.
sorry vanessa i must have missed it i will scorll back
Billy- I can’t believe your getting all the credit now for my idea about the apartment!! HAHA!
Just thought it makes the various lies make more sense. The brothers did drop Joran off at his house but with Nat. not at the Marriott or the beach or Holiday Inn.
vanessa and billy may have something there. i was wondering about the dump sites as well. being a small island i thought they just put it on a boat and dumped it in the ocean like some countries. i didn’t think of chum stuff.
whats teh procedure for teh shark feeding place….surely they would notice a cut up body? how is it collected..in a recycle bin or in grabage bags..cant throw garbage bags in water so someone had to open them
Vanessa – parents know, defiantly dad was involved. Look back at the interview of Joran’s mom, that is not a women who truly believes her son is innocent.
But where is the proof Billy? I think Dad ignored the son and has for years. Possibly the Dutch boy has “raised himself” so to speak. He has always wanted the Dad’s love and affection, but never received it because Daddy Dearest was always busy with his rise to power so to speak. Possibly Daddy Dearest would physically abuse the Dutch boy and that is why he (the son) has an anger issue………..
I don’t think she was cut up and fed to the sharks.
holy crap vnessa- that is so terribel that it could be right on…
I just don’t see them cutting this body up. Too risky for DNA to be left behind. I see her body being disposed of via garbage dump somehow. Daddy done it though.
Good point V on why this kid is possibly violent. There will not be any proof, Aruba wants this to go away as a missing person’s case.
boy i get too excited to check my typos then i look at he screen am like YIKES Im a moron!!
CRS, I’m sure his Mom has her doubts, but what Mother who truly loves her child would not want to believe that he is capable of such a vicious crime? I would defend my son also until proven otherwise. Especially if he were to tell me he was innocent. I would have not choice but to believe him until someone could prove to me otherwise.
Rem – Exactly right, that is way too messy.
I just thought – what would the average guy do? I stopped thinking about what crap story they gave and what would be logical. If you have a girl and maybe you’ve known her a few days and now its her last night in Aruba and she’s a little drunk and the both of you have had the hots for each other, so its now or never – do you go to the beach? where there are crawling things and sand and possibly people to interupt you? Or do you go home – put on some music, air conditioning, a nice bed – and get it on there? what would you do?
Lisabobeesa, I believe the “technical investigation” with the helicopters was looking for ground that was disturbed, i.e. someone burying something. I’ve read about this being used in other murder cases where the body isn’t found immediately. Evidently, ground disruption can be detected for weeks afterward….If this shows nothing, there’s only 3 conclusions: 1)she was moved off the island, dead or alive and now is in another location entirely; 2)she was dumped in the ocean far enough off coast as to not wash up anywhere or3) she’s alive and doesn’t want to be found, which doesn’t sound too plausible, but neither did the “runaway bride.” Here’s a long shot: “Always does the right thing” Natalee gets a taste of freedom, booze, boys and whatever in an island paradise. It’s her last night of freedom before she has to go back to 4 years of pre-med followed by years of med school/residency/interning. Pressure is intense to live up to her potential and maintain the full ride scholarship. She decides to disappear, purposely. And then is dumbstruck by the publicity she’s created. Seriously, I don’t think it’s how it went down, but after this many days of coming up empty……
The thought just dawned on me!! Could this Dutch family actually be apart of the Kennedy family?? Just Kidding
Hi everyone! I have wanted to step in with comments about an hour ago, but started reading Gregory’s post (G.), and just finished!!! You guys are hilarious today! I haven’t stopped laughing.
This started as a very information site. I find it has turned into an AOL chat room.
What a shame.
V- that’s what i am saying she was not very passionate about his innocence in contrast to the security guards mother who went crazy when her son was accused, she was out there screaming and yelling he was innocent. i think if this kid was truly innocent the parents would be using the media to tell what a great kid he was.
Great point , crs.
where was there an interview with Jorans mom? can someone tell me?
I don’t think this girl is pulling a Jennifer Wilbanks.
no kidding, i learned that unreported crime areas= no crime areas
Anyone know what was up with the boats they were checking out? whos boat? why? I saw pictures on cnn but didnt quite fill in the pieces
Jake – Watch out G gets angry when you diss his post.
crs – absolutely not, she could not hide on this island if she tried IMHO.
Lisa – i saw the interview way back when the case first started, I would think you could do a yahoo search and find it somewhere.
i dont think its unrealistic that shes been quiet…a person with a justice official spouse…she knows that this is serious and she needs ot be quiet…i dont thik it says anything about her feeling her son isnt innocent
hey crs: the only 2 people who think you are all that are you and your mommy. The same one that bought the computer you’re sitting at. Do you work or verbally jerk off all day? I noticed you and Fagzilla pollute this blog more than anybody else. I’m doing it in between being productive and making six figures.
Are we just a little insecure because we dont work or have any talent or anything real to offer?
By the way, Mecha-Retard, (probably unemployed and living w/Mommy and Daddy too -its so obvious) Also,I am as American as apple pie w/three generations of military on both sides. ?(UK?) If you’re referring to my last name it is Scottish and proudly so. Scotland is where we back up our words w/action. Do you work or produce anything?As to your repeated homo phobic inferences (closet case) I am slightly married and I have more hetero in my pinky toe than you have in your whole useless carcass. Its obvious that you are a bit of a closet case. It’s okay to come out nowadays bro. Maybe you and crs could discuss it at length (no pun intended).
Now shut up and accomplish something one of these decades.
love ya…
G-ster
Lisa – maybe- I just got a vibe from it, stange verbage, creeped me out a little, find it and you will probably see what I mean.
Yeah, poor dutch boy, crying all the while he drives his sparkling silver car which I heard was the fastest on the island, yeah poor dutch boy, 17 years old – out drinking, hanging in bars and gambling even though he’s under age – and not one bar-keep or cop seems to take notice. Uhmmmm…sad little dutch boy my ass. This is a rich kid who has gotten away with crap all his life b/c daddy could always fix it UNTIL now. Although it looks like he will get away with murder.
Would they be using the media in their time of shock and disbelief? I don’t think they can look that far ahead right now. Deep in their hearts I do believe the know he could be capable of such a thing, but don’t want to believe it. That is why you DON’T see her out there screaming he is innocent. Because I truly believe he is an abused child (from the Father) and the Mother probably has an alcohol problem to escape it all. Every parent wants to think their kid is great. But I’m sure guilt is eating the parents up inside, thinking if he did murder this young girl, the fingers will point to their parental skills and possibly a deep secret about the physical abuse this child has endured.
G – at best you are very insecure if you let a blog get to you.
One thing comes to mind…..Unsolved Mysteries.
V – very possible you are right about the abuse angle.
yes i will check it out crs..thanks….i am just feeling like if this was truly an accident..that the boys would be more likely to have come clean already…dont you agree…?
Mecha – anything on G’s latest comments? I don’t think you should get scolled and he says whatever he wants.
Lisa – Absolutly – this was no accident- but more power to the people that think it was – they are a very sensitive group.
Daddy and Joran are pretty close according to everything I have seen. They are often seen in the casinos together and it is the reason Joran gets in the casinos. Many of the photos in Joran’s website are of him and daddy drunk together at the casinos. Could it be Joran shared his tourist girls with daddyo?
i think lisabo is right if it were an OOPS- then justice would understand accident- if it were an OOPS and you have been doing drugs – well i think that is a different story- you try to cover it becasue maybe your parents think that you are a cute little tean dutchboy that drink/gambles but daddy might lose his shit if he finds out you ahve been trafficing/pimping drugs to tourists for that extra cash for flashing…..
Lisa, would you come clean if you knew you had no proof of what happened, and all you know is a young girl is now deceased?? Premeditated or not? Either way, they’re going to spend time in prison if convicted of 1st or 2nd degree murder. So what would coming clean do in their favor? Nothing!
heep deep doo doo!
You can tell by G’s tone of voice that something’s not quite right. He gets offended by a message board and feels the need to tell the world that he makes six figures. There are a couple of medications that I can prescribe for you: Abilify, Seroquel, Carbamezipine; all anit-psychotics or perhaps Lamictal might do because you sound like you’re having a seizure.
Your wife needs to have a talk with you regarding your anger problems or she might end up, well………..
V- your last post to Lisa intrigued me, what do you think happened?
especially when there are no plea bargains in aruba. how has their judicial system lasted this long?
Mecha – my thoughts exactly – i wonder if he doesn’t have a little anger management problem like young Joran.
Keep in mind, she told a good friend (at the C&C) club she was catching a cab to return to the hotel. This was reported Tuesday, on CNN. ALL 4 did enter a silver vehicle, believed to be a honda that was possibly driven by a third party. Would she mislead this friend and return with the dutch boy to his apt. Can’t buy it.
On the subject of the fathers motion to see his son, hope its denied. Saw an earlier posting where someone felt he (the father) would pursuade his son to confess. No disrespect intended, but that is ludicrous. He know doubt wants to school him, and reafirm to him what he needs to do, out of fear he may crack. Same for the lawyers requesting evidence from the prosecution. They to, want to reaffirm to their clients, no evidence, no fear. Play it out.
As said earlier, I do not believe Ms Holloway will be found dead or alive in Aruba.
Be it foul play, drowning, or sale, forget it. No matter what scenario you favor, to much time has elapsed. This is the true travesty of this crime.
If I were the parents, I’d put as much legal pressure on the sytem (as I could) to keep these 3 in position whereby they may at some pt. fold their tent. They have the answer(s) and hold the key. And without pressure or formidable evidence, they know it.
Gregory- Did you get picked on in school? Probably didn’t make the football team or something, right? You are a total asshole….
Hey mecha and crs, I know G. I found his web page. He wants us to tell him if his Gucci man bag would match his new outfit:
http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/photo_closeups_dd2.htm
CRS, see my previous post regarding the stains in the trunk of the car…………. I think he had every intention of taking her back to his pad, have his way with her, she got vocal (screaming & crying), he put a pillow or something over her face to quiet her so the parents wouldn’t hear all of the commotion, and she suffocated. He freaks out, calls his two buddies, they place her body in the trunk of the Honda and drive around, trying to figure out what to do. They decide to dispose of her body, make up the story of dropping her off and blame it on the 2 security guards.
TD – it is my understanding she say Joran outside the club and they offered her a ride and saw the friend inside the club. From what I have gathered on the news she did not see him until outside that night.
Yes, the parents would be behaving differently, I agree. Has anyone heard whether they were involved in searching for Natalee as soon as they found out their kid was the last one to see her? What did they say about the boys lying about the whole fiasco they caused the two security guards? Is Aruba Girl anywhere on these days? She had great local info over the weekend.
Jake, hillarious photo – you and SJO be careful though or he will start including you in his steroid-rage posts.
td-i thought she told her friends she was going with ‘them’ and then pointed at a group of other school friends walking ahead? i didn’t know she outright told them she was going with the boys.
CRS You’re making a valid point. Somebody with obvious insecurities who needs to cut everybody down regarding their employment status or sexual proclivity. Because he feels insecure, he’s compelled to bring everybody else down in a pugnacious and vitriolic manner. Can’t be a coincidence that he’s on this board since he must feel a subconscious connection-due to similar anger and psychopathic personalities- to the main suspect.
V- I agree she was suffocated but that substance was found in the car on a seat. I agree with the jist of what you are saying. I do not think the lighthouse or marriot was involved.
Just heard on local radio, they arrested some one else. This person appearantly was found in the town of Savaneta.
TD, I heard last night on the O’Rilley Factor , a girl who was on the trip and at the bar say that Natalee said she was going to go with “them”. pointing to a group of students walking back towards the motel. The dutch boy was standing beside her, but never spoke. The girl asked Natalee if she was alright and she said she was fine. I think at that point the affects of what ever he put in her drink was doing it’s job. Another schoolmate (a fellow) said he saw her in the bar dancing and laughing with the dutch boy and then they left. he did not see HOW she left.
tlc-no way!!
arubagirl is on misfitting
Mecha – well said – we probably need to stop talking about him because he is somewhat married whatever that means and I think you know what i am saying….
This is tragic at best. I can’t say I had the pleasure to ever lay eyes on this young lady, wish I could have. But then don’t we all? Frankly, there is no doubt in my mind tht these three know where Natalee is, and just what was done to her. If nothing is discovered in this case and these three get their walking papers, I truly hope they come to the United States, some day. Think about it, once they say something and someone connects these individuals, it could be hell. Unfortunately. Or would it be unfortunate?
The bottom line here, Natallee had a lot left to live, and if these three punks sexually assaulted her, ( and you have a damn good idea they might very well have ) and then eliminated her, either by fear, lust for power, or what ever. Real simple, Castration, and then hang them high. There is NO sympathy here for some one who would sexually assault a woman, and especially take her life. Justice should be swift and harsh. Send a message, but in todays times with all the bleed heart liberals, the offenders have rights. Bullshit!
She left on her own volition
bye until tomorrow folks…………..
please – the scoop on the new arrest is it smoke and mirrors or legit?
I just looked at CNN and MSNBC and see nothing of another arrest.
CRS- Somewhat married means that his wife is having an affair with most of his army buddies, but he wants to “hang on” since he’s convinced that she’ll come back one day.
pktbk yes way. I’m waiting to hear more updates. Even us locals here were wondering if he and NH were dropped off at the beach and the other 2 clowns “went home”, if stuff went south, would he not call some one for help????
The hazmat suits at the vanderslott house looked like they may have found drug making materials. Has that been considered?
Has anyone else heard about another arrest in the NH case?
WHERE IS THE NEWS?
I can’t believe this. The authorities should have a DAILY press oncference about this case.
I am listening to Sean Hannity too and he has not mentioned it.
The media coverage on this case is getting rediculous. Now MTV is involved.
Mecha – I about fell out of my chair that was so funny!
Gregory- Shut up with your crappy success story. Nobody gives a #$%@ about you or your freakin family. Who cares if they live at home with mommy or daddy they are in front of their computer doing the same thing you had to go to school to learn how to do jerkoff.
Could the other person arrested be daddy the judge?
What’s funny?
Mecha – has MTV gotten to the bottom of what video they were watching when she was killed?
Mecha – I was laughing about your comment about G, his wife, and the troops.
Just a few comments:
The night of Natalee’s disappearance, the brothers met Joran at the bar. Supposedly picked him up. One of the revised versions says that they droped him and Natalee at the Marriot Hotel, and then went home. The other states that they dropped Joran at home, took Natalee to the hotel and then went home. We know that the Honda belongs to van der Sloot. But what ever happened to the Kalpoe’s car. Does any body knows?
Also, does any body know if the parents of the three suspects have shown any public concerns regarding their children, like Natalee’s mother has and like the mothers of the two initial suspect did.
It seems that their silence is an indication of knowledge of cause and perhaps, coparticipation in getting rid of evidence.
I don’t think anyone else has been arrested or it is the best kept secret in the world right now.
Lucy – I thought the only car involved was Joran’s silver honda?
No for real. MTV has sent out a special correspondent for the story; CC DeVille, spandex wearing, wild pink-haired, nail polish wearing guitarists for 1980′s hair metal band POISON!!! Asked what he thought about his new gig as a reporter, CC responded in his thick native Brooklyn accent, wearing full POISON conert outfit: “I”M SO EXCITED…I DON”T KNOW IF SHOULD SALIVATE OR CRINGE”
“My Music professor Yhtzak Perlman is rolling over in his grave right now!!!!”
Where is the 6 figure income guy?
He’s headed home – its 5 o’clock.
they said computer play is oer and locked him back in his padded room
kidding
the fact that MTV is there is really insulting – this isnt reality tv it is this familys LIFE
Billy-With regards to your theory, how do the Kalpoe’s fit into it. Obviously they are deeply involved. They have lied, they have changed stories …
marie-hilarious…parinoid schizophrenic!!1hahahahahh
Is this going to turn into a media circus like OJ did.
that sample that looked like blood, I’m guessing it was ketchup or something and they are just too embarrassed to say so because if it was any kind of bodily fluid, they could identify the fluid and it carries DNA and could have been compared to the mother’s DNA or I am sure if they have Natalee’s stuff, they could find a hair sample as well…….all we heard is that it was not blood but some other “fluid”
I can’t speak for Billy but I think the brothers are involved in the coverup only.
Cancon – God help us if the authorities can not tell the difference between blood and ketschup.
I’m sure MTV is there to do a story about the party life at Carlos n Charlies. I bet the PM paid MTV to come and do a story to get tourist over there quickly! I heard that already they had to cancel a festival in Aruba.
I agree. Totally. Richard Simmons, famous striped-short wearing, white-afro hair, aerobic 1980′s guru, creator of the “Sweating To The Oldies” workout VHS tapes is headed there saturday. They’re filming a “Sweating with Geraldo” workout tape. I mean where will this spectacle end?????
Tomorrow, everyone is going to look at the message board and it is just going to be one long post from G just cussing everyone out.
If its true what they say and there is no bad press, Aruba is set.
G is going to tell us how he fought the Japanese at the batlle for Guadalcanal in the pacific, in 1943.
G might be lolipops husband.
OK guys, let’s concentrate on a concrete issue I asked this before
the grey Honda that was first picked up – whose vehicle is it, is it the Kalpoe brothers or Joran
Joran is not old enough to drive, correct
so who was driving that night again, which car and whose car?
if the Honda was Joran’s car and he can’t drive, then clearly the brothers went to Joran’s in their vehicle, left it there and drove Joran’s car to C & C’s which meant they would have to come back to Joran’s and switch cars unless Joran was driving when he wasn’t supposed
now what part of the island do the brothers live in???
this is puzzling me
Also, who refers to themselves in the third person as the G-ster?
I have been reading for days, but no comment till now. Yesterday, when it was made known t hat Joran had an apartment of his own apart from the main house, it occurred to me that maybe he took her back there. Then, maybe he gets mad and loses his temper because something did not go his way -she dies as a result. He calls his friends to come over, and help him. They put the body in his parents SUV, which is one of the vehicles impounded by the police yesterday. The logic to them, at the time, is that it is easier to hide a body in the SUV, than in a car. Also, because the silver car was so well known on the island, the SUV would command less attention. They drive around, and dispose of the body. There are many caves in Aruba, which I remember from when my husband and I honeymooned there. Or maybe she is just buried, but the actual burial site has not yet been located. One thing which puzzles me also is this: if what the Kalpoe brother is saying is true, then how did Jordan get home after they dropped him and Natalee off by the Marriott?? How far is his home from there? Is it logical that he would have walked home? Does anyone here know that??
I think of the Jessica Lunsford case here in Florida where the poor little girl had been taken by the sex-offender, and was buried under the steps of a neighboring house. LE did not find her for weeks also, even though there had been cadaver dogs used right there in the neighgborhood. What baffles my mind so much is what could three scared young people do to so well hide a body?? Especially when most were panicked. And so, I have also wondered if Daddy or Mommy dearest came to the rescue. So many unanswered questions. Why one of them has not broken down and revealed all is unexplainable. I pray that she will be found, for the sake of her family. And, after all this time, it is hard to imagine she will be found alive. No matter what the truth is, her mother and family members need to know what has happened. I pray for them to have the strength they need to go on each day.
when I googled Carlos & Charlie, besides the fact that the Aruba bar’s site crashed, cannot imagine why, it is clear Carlos and Charlie’s is a chain of restaurants in the Caribbean/South America
crs
I think there had to be a second car. According to in initial reports, the Kalpoes picked Joran up at Carlos N’ Charlie. He was already there. Then they reportedly dropped him of, either at home, or at the Marriott or elsewhere. So, to me, there was a second car, besides the Honda.
With regards to another arrest, last Saturday the 11th, the news coverage reported a fourth arrest, but there has not been another mention of this.
Also, the group was supposed to have stopped at another bar before taking off.
I’m still having visions of MTV’s CC DeVille in Aruba screaming, instead of conducting interviews, “How Many People Here Tonight Wanna Get High…??!!”
Joran’s car is the silver honda, the brother’s live very close according to Fox. I think Joran has been driving for awhile, legal or not, i think Joran most likely orignally picked them up, the drove to c&c and when they left Joran was both drunk and wanted to sit in the back with NH and make out so the bros. drove.
His home is too far, he did not walk.
Lucy – see my post above as to the single car – I could be wrong.
I just listened to Sean Hannity on the radio and there is no news out of Aruba – they are talking about the same stuff as yesterday.
He would have a one hour walk, after he disposed of the body? I think the Kalpoes continued NH, hurt her, called in help (from a fourth person (savaneta!!!)). There is another evil soul involved and it is not the van der Sloot’s.
Mecha – You can’t be serious on the guy with MTV.
Checkme – ANy facts to back up or just your own, personal theory?
cancon
The Kalpoe brothers picked Joran up at the Bar. Maybe they were invited over as “body guards”, since Joran was in a brawl with Natalee’s friends, the night before they left Aruba.
Also, the silver Honda belongs to van der Sloot.
cancon
Sorry, the incident was two nights befor, at the casino.
If you have not done so you should go to the other post and view the interview with Natalee’s mother… Pretty damn moving….
Check it out…….Ozzy is headed out tomorrow as a second correspondent. Asked what he thought about working with CC from the hair metal band Poison, he responded in his thick British Birmingham accent:” CC parties like a monster..man!!…We’ll be snorting the Aruban beach”
People talking about Kalpoe brothers as ultimatly being responsible could be right, blood is thicker than water, right? It makes sense somewhat, they drop him off and then have free rain with her. Its not my favorite theory but certainly plausible.
Mech – your out of control.
Meche’s a hippie
NH’s mom’s interview is worth a view.
reign…..sorry had to
Thanks for the spell-check!
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).
Very strange to see if someone else then you all ,has a different opinion an does see this case from both sides ( which I think is far more honest, by the way!) That she is instantly attacked by nearly all of you.
Most of the people are really quick with pointing a finger to someone that they do not know, even without the proper evidence!!! It`s very sad to see this.
And by the way I don`t know any of the ‘supects’ . And if the evidence points out that they had something to do with it ,they may burn in hell. but we didn`t see any evidence yet .
O , and I`m a dutch woman
That’s why English is such a conondrum to some foreigners: reign rain there their they’re etc.
Checkme since you are there please provide your complete theory as to what happened.
Technically, it is “rein”
to, too, two….
Goedemiddag…….de eertse Nederlandse…heel leuk
What is this english class?
I stand corrected Em
Correction, the grey Honda does NOT belong to the Joran but to the elder Kalpoe.
I am so confused now, I thought the grey honda was Joran’s!
Correction, if the Honda is not paid off then the bank holds the title to the car…HHHHMMM
We’ve all damn lost it, maybe the bank killed NH.
Hi Mecha,
Ja ik lees al een tijdje mee en mijn vingers kriebelden om toch even een keer te reageren hihih.
CRS…we need to start a private investigative team; we think alike. Lets start by solving the Kennedy assasination
I noticed lots of replys to my logical observations about crs and Mecha -duh.
(mostly from crs and dick-zilla)
The more you guys comment without true substance, the sweeter the victory.
Angry? not even -I am loving every word of this – you guys are great
In life there is all-access or the ticket window. Now get in line with the rest of the sheep and dont be jealous of my laminate.
Truth hurts until one day you are forced to face it when you hit the mat with the standing eight count like everybody else and mommy isn’t there to help..
Then you either get up and improve who you are and go on, or you don’t until the game is over for you permanently -just like everybody else-no biggie. boring story.
to SJO: FYI -I was varsity (letters) starter halfback (sweep) on our school soccer team all four years. Now what? You running out of ammo or what? Your comment on my athletics in school is about as valid as 95% of the garbage on this blog.
Its been fun, but I think I’ll just go back to what I am doing and make this my last entry on this blog and watch how much effect I had by the number of worthless comments that follow.
asta la vista baby
much love,
G.
I have to ask my mom first that is what G told me earlier.
Ja, gewoon meedoen. Ik doe al een tijd mee maar met verschillende namen. Ik verzin vaak wat om het een beetje interresant en grappig te houden.
gregory- not need to defend yourself hun- point being this isnt about any of us- it sia about NH
I bet MTV sent out a reporter after they saw that BIMBO prom queen on CNN taking about her sex on the beaches like an inconsiderate ignorant little brat…
NOOOOOO – is that the end of G? So he did do the roids afterall and does have roid rage, I’m glad he cleared that up about the soccer. That guy’s top notch.
yup top shelf !
I hope there’s some new footage tonight of the homecoming queen, she needs more air time, she needs a reality series.
crs…check it out. G is a totally hot and bitchin athlete. I don’t think he played any physical sports but he sounds like a synchronized swimmer. Actually, I could be wrong he probably was a hell of a badminton player!!!!
Checkme
Ok, the car belongs to Paulus, but supposedly the son used it that night, right? It was the first car impounded … One more question. Have the Kalpoes and the Van Der Sloot had any local public expression of concern regarding their children? Have they claimed innocence, or are they just keeping quiet? We only get CNN here, and we have only seen Anita Van Der Sloot once. I don’t know if the other parents have had encounters with the press, in other media channels.
yah- called get a life
or maybe it could be you- no i wont even go there it is just wrong…
what a bimbo- no respect see the world revolved arounf her this week
“Don’t be jealous of my laminate” – what does that mean, is he speaking in code? I would rather have some news on NH to talk about but we have to talk about what we have to work with here.
checkin later on guys- keep the fingers crossed i need to go do a conf call
as if i have even worked all the past few weeks (gulp)
Mech – I saw the latest, he makes big $, is almost married, was a soccer star, I feel like I have know the guy twenty years.
Lucy,
One more time, the grey souped-up honda does not belong to Joran’s family but to the eldest Kalpe brother…
crs……I’m telling you, G is totally HOT and bitchin’. He wants to challenge us to a “tickle fight” , and he’s insisting that we all wear BVD tighy whity underwear.
MFM – have fun on your conference call – it is late for that!
CRS,
is there footage on the net (link) of her ? The homecoming queen that is I missed the story..
Mech – Your hillarious – have a good night my friend – I will talk to you tomorrow – hit whatever board is closest to the top.
Justin – there may be check CNN and Anderson Cooper, if not, try nad catch Anderson Cooper on CNN the next few nights – I bet he shows it again, he is on 7:00 pm EST.
Lucy,
The first car impounded was the one of the security guard, who later stated that the Kalpoe’s apolagized to him for wrongfully getting him arrested, broadcasting their own innocence and Joran’s guilt…
Will do. I’m outta here too. Been goofing off most of the afternoon but I’ve almost hit my sales quota for the year so I’m having some fun. Taking off from August to December…whhheeeeaaa
At this point, the only logical explanation for NH invisibility is because she is been given to the mother sea…
OK so are we straight that the Grey Honda belonged to the Kalpoes???
it was already mentioned the Kalpoe family owns a car rental business so wheels are not going to be a problem for these lads…..
Did you see Mrs Van Der Sloot on Scarborough Country, Joe was awful nice to her….I was surfing between Greta and Joe and smartly Joe didn’t start the interview with Mrs. VDS until Greta was finished her awsome interview with Mrs. Holloway, I thought at first, at the beginning of this tragedy, that Mrs. H was too calm and composed but I see, whilst she is still strong and determined, this is wearing her down
Mrs. VDS seemed like a complete wreck, just barely holding on but I couldn’t help thinking, a little permissive with the kinderen, ja?
well perhaps the boys were taking notes during the Scott Peterson trial……..
Dutch Boy was a cleanser….Like Comet & Ajax..I’m old, just thought I let you know in case it hasn’t been posted yet.
Here are 2 possibilities:
1. Joran ran into high debt with some gang and the only way he could get out of that debt is to get them a “foreign girl”. So, he made friends with NH and eventually handed her over to the Gang.
2. Instead of just Joran in scenario above, the 2 brothers are also involved in this debt and all 3 worked together in handing over NH to the Gang.
Anyone thinks this is possible?
Having followed this story very closely for over a week, I’m absolutely fascinated by this Joran kid. He’s 17 years old in a jurisdiction where the minimum age to drive, drink, gamble, etc. is 18. Nevertheless, he boldly drives his car all over the island without benefit of a license, whiles away his days openly gambling in the casinos, and spends his nights carousing in drunken revelry at the most popular watering holes until last call. Does anyone else find this at all peculiar? This kid didn’t just start this behavior 2 weeks ago. My guess is that he didn’t set out on his life of debauchery any later than his 14th birthday, and no one since that time has ever seen fit to intrude on his “good time. ” He evidently enjoys some sort of local “immunity,” I imagine as a consequence of his father’s prominence in government and community circles.
Consider that Aruba is governed under permissive Dutch law that tolerates drugs, and honors prostitution with legal recognition. Does anybody seriously doubt under these circumstances that Joran is into drugs, or that he frequents the island’s brothels? Then there are the reports that he’s violence prone, having thrown a classmate throught a plate glass window. Does anyone imagine that he would shrink from slapping a girl around? There is also the report that he produced/sold his own pornography, in particular a video showing the gang rape of a 14 year old girl. Why, then, might he be shy about doing the same thing to an 18 year old like Natalee? Dutch law, by the way, doesn’t have any problem with child pornography, either. It’s “all good” to them, I suppose.
Hey, this kid is 17 years old, and he’s playing with the complete “Charlie Sheen Fun Kit,” every night, as though it were NOTHING. There’s no escaping it, people; this kid is absolutely, morally DEAD. I wouldn’t put anything past him, certainly not rape, not even murder. While the police were taking Joran into custody, they should have slapped the cuffs on his old man for good measure. The acorn falls not far from the tree. Congratulations! Judge Van Der Sloot, you’ve successfully raised a perfect, 17 year old degenerate.
If one or all 3 of the boys are guilty wrt NH, how come no one is breaking down? Are all 3 sticking to the same story during interrogations? – we don’t know this. I am pretty sure they are being interrogated separately and being “told what the other 2 are saying” to get real story out. Since the 3 claimed they dropped off NH at the hotel, are they giving “identical information wrt times, events on beach, what was said in the car during the drive to beacjh and back to hotel, where were any stops made during the trip, etc etc”. If there is inconsistency in any of the 3 stories, we know the 3 are lying …………
A thought here, obviously the Aruban govt is doing what they can to either cover this up or drag their feet to waste time. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of getting an individual who has some other capabilities such as maybe “Psyichics”. I mean it may sound a bit twisted however in the past there have been things that have taken place and these people have been utilized and cases have been solved.
Check out MSNBC.com Posted at 6pm …… they report vd Sloot has changed his story and now agrees that the Kapoe brothers dropped him and Natalee off at the Marriot.
I agree with billy they cut her up in the house, BUT I also believe that howard stern, Bababooey, and robin quivers flew in on howards lear jet and helped with the disappearace and cleanup, they then flew back to n.y.c., in time for the show and their interview with Beetlejuice and mossy funaki.
Boger, I agree about the “Psychic”…I’m not a great believer in them but at this junture I think it wouldn’t hurt…What is going on in Aruba is just unbelievable…I hope they’re is a method to the madness going on down there…cause nothing is making sense in this investigation
Psychics are completely unnecessary. Anyone knowledgable about the mechanics of elicitation/counter-elicitation understands this simple fact: A skilled interrogator can ALWAYS crack a bogus story. That is, IF he has the time. That shouldn’t be a problem in this case. Dutch law grants the authorities wide discretion to detain and question criminal suspects. The second simple rule in elicitation/counter-elicitation is this: The greater the number of conspirators, the EASIER it is to crack a bogus story. Why is this? It’s because you can question each conspirator separately, and it becomes exponentially more difficult for these individual stories to remain aligned as their number increases. What basic technique would be used? It essentially boils down to two elements: 1) Isolation, and 2) Segmentation. By isolation I mean holding the suspects apart, incommunicato. This denies them any opportunity to reorient themselves. By segmentation I mean having the interrogator iteratively parse (or segment) the story into ever smaller, more detailed elements. Why would this work? It’s effective because it forces asubject to provide ever greater detail about the events in question, details that the subject will eventually have to begin making up on the fly because he couldn’t foresee this line of questioning, and couldn’t coordinate his answers with the other conspirators. The stories’ external consistency with each other will soon disintegrate. Each story’s internal consistency will also begin to crumble. Why? Because the more facts you have to spontaneously make up, the more difficult it becomes to remember all the lies you’ve told. The subject begins to contradict himself, and that can be used to leverage ever more damaging admissions of complicity.
Eventually, the suspect will either confess, work out a deal with prosecutors in exchange for his cooperation, or absolutely refuse to answer any more questions. The latter is a clear indication of guilt, and the interrogator will have hopefully by that time have so thoroughly impeached the suspect that prosecution would be relatively straightforward. One last thing: speed is of the essence in such matters. The suspects MUST be questioned and have their persons/premises/vehicles examined as soon as possible after they are identified. Delay only serves the interests of the suspects, and can never be justified on the basis of affording better opportunity for remote surveillance.
Police officials in Aruba seem to have dispensed with every one of these principles, leading me to suspect that they are either completely incompetent, or deliberately bungling the investigation.
Steve…I saw this Psychic Detective on the Nancy Grace show not long ago…Go here to read about her…http://www.parascope.com/en/articles/renierMain.htm
I see nothing wrong in giving it a try.
Snippy:
Thanks for your response, I can’t say that I put a lot of belief in the “Psychics” however they have in the past proved to be useful. At this juncture I think any kind of outside assistance that wouldn’t be directly conflicting with the so called investigation would be helpful, Who knows if this type of assistance was requested by someone, we might be able to get some answers real fast. I mean afterall, Anything is better than nothing. What is going on seems to be very obvious, I bet if the people in groups were to start raising cain, and making statements like ‘Boycott Aruba” and actually be willing to do so until the situation is solved / rectified, Aruba might just get on with the program as not to lose their precious money.
I have heard today that in Atlanta posters of the three young lads are being handed out and posted, stating ” Wanted DEAD OR ALIVE” in the connection of the Kidnapping and or possiable murder of Natallee. If this is so, someone seems to be willing to partake in a bit of a ruckus. Not necessarialy a good deal.
My A.D.D. just kicked in, can someone please type out a few Cliff Notes from Steve’s post. Thanks.
How did all those spaces get in my post ? LOL…and, how do you get back here without scrolling through hundreds of posts..??
Snippy, hit ctrl/end at the same time.
After following this story for sometime now. I see no reason but to believe
the Aruban authorities are no doubt guilty of a cover-up. There willing-ness
to allow these 3 man to go free, in the first few days of this investigation and
then arrest two black man, on information supplied by them, is just plan criminal…
It also seems
to be true they have no interest in finding Natalee at all…. a murder young woman
would be more hurt-ful to there most safe inland reputation…. rather then the strange
disappearance of a young woman would be. Of course they did everything they could,
I’m sure there many many crimes reported by tourist in Aruba. Which are never resolved
I’m afraid to say, I really no longer have any hope Natalee is alive. I also have no hope
of the Aruban authorities finding her body or convicting these 3 man…. as the only real
search (smoke screen) was carried out, on info supplied by… yet again these three man…
The only real hope here is. The FBI reporting there findings on how the Aurbans
investigated this case…… What a great place to bring the Family
I’m a Korean war veteran and would love to have five minutes with these little punks; I’ll get the thruth out of those bastards
interesting observation someone had on the hazmat suits, wonder if old Joran had an E lab, roofie or crystal meth lab set up, now crystal meth is highly volatile, tsk tsk
Forgive me…but what is this crystal met that you’re talking about, is that some secret weapon? I’m not familiar with the terms these young kids use nowandays
Loyd:
Save up your energy for the terrorists at Gitmo. If Joran and the two brothers were subjected to a proper interrogation, I doubt that they could hold up for much more than a day without giving up the truth — that’s without resort to any violence.
Well young man, I’m a decorated Korean veteran and you should respect our veterans. I would like to interrogate these little Dutch bastards. I’ve interrogated many Chinamen in my days.
Thank You ASdf..but I don’t understand..I know where the ctrl key is but whats the other one your talking about? DUH HERE..sorry.
And then when you’re at the bottom of the page Snippy, hit F5 to refresh and you won’t start from the top.
Loyd:
Please don’t misinterpret me. First, I’d like to thank you for your service to our country. Second, I’ll have you know that I’m not that young — 41. %^( Sigh. Third, I sensed you were harboring angry, violent thoughts, and I wouldn’t want you to burden yourself with those. If I was mistaken, please accept my apologies.
Thank You ASdf..it worked..LOL
Hey, Y’all! Great news! Take a look at this hot news item of today: “Travel agents in America, Canada and Europe tell CDNN that thousands of tourists and scuba diving travelers are canceling planned holidays to Aruba.” The article further states that parts of Aruba look like a ghost town. It adds besides the Alabama radio station, there is an Oregon group calling for a boycott of Aruba and that major American (and other) travel agencies are discouraging travel to Aruba. This may be the thing to make the Aruban Cops stop coddling Van der Slut. BTW when are they going to arrest Papa Van der Slut for accessory to the fact? We all know the boys couldn’t have hidden Natalee on their own without Daddy Judge’s help.
Posted by: tideroller | June 16, 2005 08:43 PM
What if Joran drove his car to the Marriott leaving it there then walking to Carlos and Charlies. This is where the brothers meet him later. They have a plan to pick an young drunk gal out for some fun. Joran has spent time with NAtalee see her at Carlos and Charlies and asks her if she wants a ride home. Then they take the inihibriated Natalie away for some fun instead and the brothers drop Joran and Natalee at the Marriott. This is a routine they have done before.
The fun turns rough she falls breaks her neck on some rocks trying to get away and he thinks she is dead and calls some friends to come up with their jet ski and take her out to the middle of the ocean and drop her off. He then gets into his car which he left at the Marriott like he has done many times before and drives around the island thinking up his alibi….
Good! It’s about time. The government isn’t doing anything so we, the people are.
Back in my day we used to really do a number on some of those Chinamen and we should give these three little punks the same treatment. I say we make them kiss the gunner’s daughter.
Loyd…Certainly makes us all mad as hell for sure…Especially when these spokes people for Aruba get on with their yammer about all the steps they have to take..BS..Let the FBI take over ….This is a cover up, no other way to look at it in my opinion from all I have read and heard on TV…
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (UPI) — Police in Aruba say one of three suspects arrested in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to killing her.
Brothers Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Depak Kalpoe, 21, and their friend, 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, were arrested, but police did not indicate which of them confessed to killing Natalee Holloway.
Travel agents in America, Canada and Europe tell CDNN that thousands of tourists and scuba diving travelers are canceling planned holidays to Aruba
http://www.cdnn.info/
http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050614.html
Boger, dude…that was five days ago…not true.
ottwolves :
Well I might have stepped on my dick here then, I was looking and found the headline and it was on the Fox wire, didn’t look at the date, it seemed fresh, I will try to locate if it is and post. If wrong sorry.
no prob man. if you copy the text of your post and go to “google news”, paste your text and put quotes around it, you’ll be linked to June 11 stories. Didn’t mean to come across like a prick. Like that quote though….”stepped on my dick”. LOL
does anyone know whether the brothers have a car and why haven’t they been to their house and searched. they look shifty to me.
is anyone still on to answer questions
Go ahead Sandy
This is Tom from Scared Monkeys at your service.
Sandy
Your previous question is the car that impounded was the older brothers Depak car.
http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050614.html
http://www.cdnn.info/
I hope SteveDinMD is right and this turns out to bust this case open. Otherwise coverup seems to be evident in the time span it took to arrest and interogate the trio, and then collect evidence so long sfter the fact.
Look what is happening now: Tree boys in custody, at least one of them (Joran) knows what really happened to the victim, based on very strong suspicion. Because of the different stories the boys are producing, the whole community gets messed up with dead ends and a lot of precious time and money and energy are just wasted for nothing. Day in and day out, and that all for two weeks now. And all this could take a fruitfull course if just one of those suspects would confess the truth. I find that this is very unfair system, the boys knows something, but they just refuse to confess. And everybody are just running like a bunch of cows from east/west/north/south/up/down for the sake of the truth at every single new word, said by the suspects, with a negetive result at the end. So much energy is pushed in this case. My suggestion is that every country should make a new law, where, when there is a strong need to force an confession from a high profile suspect for the sake of the welfare of a country, the law should create a possibility for the police to forcefully/physical, beat a confession out of the suspect, all that for the sake for the good of the community and the human welfare. Of course the beating must be done by experts, under the supervision of the Attorney General. When such a system existed on Aruba, the whole case would have been solved in less then…24 hours!
Put yourself in the place of Joran and his parents. Now assume you are completely innocent and therefore have nothing to hide. Would you not be actively out on day 1 try to help direct emergency personnel to different locations to search? Or would you be parsing words and proclaiming innocence?
All you have to do is think about how you would behave if it was you and you were innocent, and compare it to there behavior, and you have pretty damning, albeit circumstantial, evidence that young Joran may be hiding something.
Related to the theories about him taking Natalee to his apartment, I am having a hard time believing that scenario because it just doesn’t sound like something she would have been likely to do. I think it is more likely that he put the moves on her out at the lover’s lane beach and she resisted, or the 3 of them took her someplace isolated and she resisted. I think the whole thing would have likely come to a head before he could have ever maneuvered her to his bachelor’s pad. Just my opinion, I’d lbe eager to hear some opposing views from those of you who have followed this thing more closely….
has anyone talked to people that know the brothers and what they are really like and why they are hanging out with a 17 yr old
maybe i am wrong but joran looks like a kid that likes to have fun and be cool but the brothers look like trouble. i know you can’t tell a book by its cover but everyone seems to be after joran and maybe rightly so–i just wander why all of a sudden everyone thinks the brothers are telling the truth and joran is the only bad guy. funny the story they told the security guard didn’t come up with anything — could the brothers be playing a game
This is the Former Sheriff’s Deputy saying good evening to one and all.
Listen, we need to get the chaperons, on the news, in line up fashion, answering the hard questions. We need to understand the thought process these clowns used when chaperoning these children.
And if one more person says “No one is blaming the chaperons…that was not their job…” I’ll be the first to give them credit — credit for snowing the parents; especially the Holloways.
Are these a bunch of Southern hicks? If my child went on a trip and didn’t return, and all the chaperons could say was “we were not here to do anything more than…”, my size 11 would be up their hind ends faster than one could say Merry XMAS.
Deputy
I think the former Deputy has a point!
Sandy S.
P.S.
Hope they find her.
I think the former Deputy has a point!
Sandy S.
P.S.
Hope they find her.
a lot of people have to go to anger management but are not murderers–someone picks on them and they lose it maybe because it isn’t the first time or whatever but i do not think if joran did this that it was planned or that he was alone in it. also i think if it was him it could have been innocent at the beginning and then maybe the brothers carried it too far and he doesn’t know how to get out of it but won’t tell on his friends because he looks up to them. there was a guy here once that had a uncle that raped a girl and this kid was in the car but did nothing and did not rape the girl and wouldn’t. he was really a good kid just idolized his uncle. he went to prison for 20 years just because he wouldn’t tell on his uncle and the police and his family tried to get him to tell the real truth. i know all of this to be a fact and i am just wondering if this could be the case with joran.
Sandy M,
What do you think about getting the chaperons to provide more information?
Sandy S.
to the deputy—where is the blame for the kids in the room with natalee? why didn’t they report she didn’t come back –they are the ones to know she wasn’t in the room and didn’t come back to the hotel. they waited until everyone was at the airport to say anything supposedly because they thought she spent the night with joran but doesn’t sound like very good friends to me–sometimes an hour or two can make a big difference in a case
Sandy M,
You are 100% correct. Her “friends” screwed up big time and probably cost her, her life. That being said, how come the chapersons were so in the dark about their charges. Didn’t they think to do a bed check?
These chaperons were really a few sandwiches short of a picnic!
Deputy
anyone think the brothers are playing around with all the info and laughing to themselves because they certainly don’t look like they are nervous or concerned. just seems to me they think they are gonna get the kid in trouble and get off scott free because they are older and wiser and the 17 yr old is just a toy to them. i would love to know their background–anyone know?
isn’t it strange that absolutely nothing of natalee’s has been found no trace of anything which would suggest a real kidnapping to me because usually a murder has some trail somewhere unless it is a serial killer and even at that there is always some trace left that eventually comes out. is anyone on here. i would love some answers as i have been following this case but i don’t feel it is aruba’s fault nor anyone’s fault except the one that did whatever to natalee. there are some contributors but they don’t seem to be telling the whole truth either as they don’t want to make themselves look bad but i believe in a case like this the whole truth should be told. i watched the girl and guy on tv last night that were supposed to be natalee’s friends. the guy really seemed to be honest but the girl was not. i don’t think she was a close friend of natalee nor did i believe her when she said 17 yr olds didn’t drink at the bars that is a bunch of bull and she knows it. was anyone 17 that went on the trip and who was she trying to fool as far as that statement. why don’t they interview the girls natalee was staying in the room with.
Question to any locals who can answer: There was a reference to a “shark’s den” on one side
of the island. Is it accessible? Sharks are supposedly fed there so as to keep them from
going to other parts of the island. How is this done? Is a boat need, or you can throw food
from a cliff?
Anyone planning to watch the TV show “HIt Me Baby One More Time”? I hear that the BAH HA MEN are on.
MM
is anyone on here to talk about this case as i have lots of questions–do i need to go to a different forum
By Bye Sandy M!
MM
Anyone want to talk about the TV show “Hit Me Baby One More Time”?
MM
after reading the other posts, I tend to believe that this spoiled dutch boy is used to getting his way, she was drunk and resisted. he accidently killed her, strangle etc. and her body will never be found. Having been to aruba and witnessing the winds/ and waves at the beaches, that would be the easiest way to dispose of body.
I do believe this boys father is somehow involved with coverup. as well as the brothers who apparently know what happened too.
it is such a shame ,that a wrong decision on vacation has probably cost her her life as well as ruined her families lives.
Sandy M. what do you want to know?
hit me one more time. I just can’t get into it
agree with above too, why didn’t her roommates at the HI tell anyone she didn’t come home? where were the chaperones when they were leaving the HI to go to the airport.
to only find out she was missing cause she missed her flight?
Bridget,
Who won tonight? How were the BAH HA MEN?
MM
MM, sorry didn’t watch except for a blurb of irene cara
This is what I know or have been told. I don’t know if Sandy M. is still with us or not. This was not a school sponsored trip and the chaperones were not real chaperones, which I think is a redundant statement all in itself. What is the point in having them if they aren’t going to chaperone. I’ve been blogging on this for a while and I was told that these kids were all from the same school or area, but the trip was not planned through the school. The chaperones were only there for an “emergency” (someone gets sick, etc.) but what more of an emergency is a missing girl???
i am still here but has anyone read the above things i have asked–please tell me your opinion.
I’ll backtrack and see and do my best. ; ) I just got on.
for some reason i have to get out of the website in order to see when someone else is writing something
Sandy M., I don’t really know the whole personal sides of the brothers. I’ve heard about more of the technical issues. (people seeing NH, how they were acting when they left the bar, etc.) I do think she willingly left the bar thinking they were either 1) going to drive her to the hotel or 2) take her somewhere fun or cool, but not unsafe before she left the next day. After they left however, is open game. There are way too many factors to speculate what happened. Several people have mentioned the date rape drug. I don’t think she was given this prior to her leaving the bar, but may have well been slipped this drug, unknown to her, in a drink after the fact. I’ve speculated several scenerios that could have happened after the fact. 1)she could have been given this drug and overdosed (if you actually could overdose on it) 2) She was given this drug and wasn’t as incapacitated as they thought she would be and Joran ended up raping and possibly accidently killing her when she fought back 3) It was her last night and she wanted to do something she had never done before and tried a drug and accidently overdosed and they got scared and got rid of her body 4) Joran just straight out raped her and when she said she was going to go to the authorities, he killed her. We could all speculate FOREVER what happened. Someone even brought up the possibility that she was sold into slavery. Possibly true, but far fetched. There is also the rumor that Joran or his family had a boat he used. They could have killed her and moved her to another part of the island. I honestly don’t think the coves and caves have been searched enough. I know everyone says how everyone is out looking for her and I don’t discredit that, but Grandma Jones down the street doesn’t strike me as the best forensic investigator if she doesn’t know what she looking for. Plus there was the rumor of blood being in the back seat of the car and it was an animals. B.S.!! I think they killed her and moved her body somewhere. There is a saying that if a missing person is not found in under a certain amount of time, 48 hours I think, that it is a very slim chance they will be found alive. How many weeks has it been??? As for your question about the brothers, hell yeah they are covering for each other. I think they were involved, but I do think Joran is the ringleader. (just a gut feeling) There are the rumors of him contacting tourists before they come to Aruba and rumors about his “conquests”. I don’t know how involved they are, but blood is thicker than water. As for his parents, they are totally covering up for him. All rich families do, even if it is murder. Can we say CHAPPAQUIDDICK??? That’s a given. As for where they feed sharks, I’m assuming they use chum to keep them around. If she was put in there, they probably will never find her. This probably doesn’t answer all of your questions, but maybe it helps.
Sandy M. sorry it took me so long to respond. You shouldn’t have to go out and come back in. Hit “backtrack” at the top, then ctrl/end to get back to the bottom. You may be gone already for the night.
The Dutch legal and criminal investigation systems are quite different than those of the US. Also, the solving of complicated homocides in 49 minutes as portrayed on TV gives the incorrect perception of the real details of an investigation of this importantce to everyone. All of the wild speculation on this site does nothing for NH. Until you know better, why not give the Dutch the benifit of the doubt. I am sure they are just as anxious to solve this case as any one posting here. We Americans have little patience and a large ego- we think we can always do it better and faster. Did you ever consider you might just be in error? I am betting the Dutch (Aruba) police know a lot more than most of you suggest, and under their system they can not hold suspects for long periods of time wthout due cause as you can in the US. Also, they take seriously gag orders on the release of any information before a formal charge. I hope I am right.
thank you jc–i do think that natalee originally went on her own free will but with innocence. i still have this feeling that maybe joran didn’t kill her, but the brothers did and he is scared they will kill him maybe. who knows, but i do realize he is a kid that has probably done a lot and gotten out of the things rich kids get out of and that he is out for a good time maybe even a little uncontrolable, but like the kid interviewed last night on oreilly from ala. said he thought joran was a nice guy. where were the brothers when joran and natalee were in the bar together. don’t you think a girl that makes good grades, does volunteer work and popular would be able to tell a real jerk when she sees one? maybe the brothers came up afterwards to pick joran up and joran and natalee wanted them to take them to the end of the island since she hadn’t seen this part of aruba and of course joran would know this was a good time to get what he could from her. but who is to say he wasn’t planning on doing anything bad to her but the brothers decided they wanted a piece of the action and maybe this is when something happened and joran is afraid for his life if he tells the truth. i still can’t believe nothing has shown up at all, but also we do know she was organized as her bags were packed and ready to go so she didn’t wait to the last minute and there again who knows maybe she and joran had this planned since it was the last night and the brothers were jealous because he always got the girls.
J. C says: “As for his parents, they are totally covering up for him. All rich families do, even if it is murder. Can we say CHAPPAQUIDDICK??? That’s a given.”
You’ve got that right, JC. It’s amazing what clout can do. Perhaps clout is bring used in Aruba right now by a certain suspect’s well connected father. I find it very hard to believe that suspects this young could pull off something like this all by themselves. These kids had help from someone that knew exactly what to do to make all the “evidence” disappear. Honestly, I don’t think Natalee will ever be found, and I don’t think anyone will go to jail. I hope I am wrong.
didn’t i read where the security guard was seen on tape at the holiday inn going through some of natalee’s friends belongings and their cameras etc. were stolen so why is that guard or guards not in jail and was it the same guard or guards that were arrested originally?
I’ve been giving some thought into what actually happened after Natalee left the bar with Joran and the brothers. Given how Natalee apparently disappeared while in the “care” of these three, I believe it reasonable to assume that it was a case of premeditated rape. Intentional murder seems less likely. That sort of crime would be quite unusual for Aruba to begin with, and would seem to be especially senseless in the current context. The three boys, given their tender years, would presumably take far more “pleasure” in raping a beautiful young girl than in killing her. If well executed, it would also be rather unlikely that they would ever be prosecuted for the rape, whereas murder would be a far more serious matter. In any event, look what happened in the aftermath of Natalee’s disappearance. The boys are in custody as the prime suspects. Believe me; this is NOT the way they would have preferred things to turn out.
Now, assuming we’re dealing with a premeditated rape, how could they be expected to go about committing the crime? Use of a date rape drug would be the likeliest means. It would put the girl in a highly suggestive state of mind, and eliminate any need to snatch her off the street, kicking and screaming. They could subtlely and quietly herd her into the back seat of their conveniently placed car. What then? They would need to whisk the victim to a safe, secluded place to commit the act. Such place, mind you, would have to have absolutely NO connection to the perpetrators. Personal apartments and the like would be out of the question. Forensic examination would be too likely to yield evidence of the crime, and thereby associate it with the apartment’s owner/occupant. I’m thinking an out of the way outdoor site, or perhaps an abandoned building would be the preferred venue.
Safe from onlookders, and with the girl unconscious, they could afford to take their time, raping her repeatedly to sate their sick appetites. To avoid leaving DNA evidence, they would use condoms. After they finished, what then? There would be no need to kill the girl. Unconscious through the whole thing, she would make a poor witness, anyway, and the alternative of a dead/missing tourist would be a tremdous liability, as we’ve seen. The next logical course for the rapists would be to reintroduce the victim to her party, but in a way that could conceivably account for her missing time — and in a way that tends to fix blame on the victim, herself.
The boys would need to dump Natalee, still unconscious, strategically near her hotel, yet at a discrete distance to avoid being seen. I’m thinking the overgrown area near the Mariott would fit the bill. Why there? After dumping her, the boys would have perhaps several hours to make good their getaway before Natalee would come to, by which time they would have established their alibis and coordinated their stories. Meanwhile, Natalee could be expected to stumble the short way back to the HI, an apparent “victim” of nothing more serious than a night of excessive drinking. With her flight leaving imminently, she would most likely get on the plane and return to Alabama, never to cause trouble for Joran and the brothers.
Even if she were to miss her flight and call the police, there’d be nothing to go on. With no semen on vaginal swabs, there would be no way to establish that a rape had ever been committed. If the police were to question the boys, there would be no way to establish any timeline. Natalee wouldn’t know where she had been, nor how long she had been out. The place where they dumped her would yield no forensic evidence because the rape wouldn’t have been committed there, and the police wouldn’t know where to find the actual crime scene. If pressed, the boys would say that they took her straight back to the HI. They’d say the girl was very drunk, got belligerent, and bolted from the car in the middle of the parking lot, heading toward the lobby. Thoroughly dissed, the boys would claim that they immediately drove off, and didn’t see where Natalee went from there. Full of plausible deniability, the boys would walk, and the police would conclude that a young girl simply passed out drunk near her hotel, not much worse the wear. The only problem is that “something bad happened,” and Natalle didn’t make it. Perhaps it was an OD, alcohol poisoning, an accident, or maybe even unexpected violence. We might never know.
Listening to the stories the boys told police, and the story Depak told Micky John, I see all the elements of the above “planned” scenario. Not knowing what else to do, I’m guessing the boys decided to essentially stick with the original story that they planned. The only variations I can see are the lame attempts reported in the press — first by all three boys, then by the two brothers, then by Joran — to make it seem as though someone else had been the last to see Natalee alive. These guys are so obviously guilty that any minimally trained investigator could be expected to solve the case before the weekend is out.
another point of interest: a mattress was found with blood on it but it belonged to a dead dog, now blood found in the car in the trunk but also a dead dog but didn’t we get blood sample of car to test over here and results were negative for natalee so why would that be as we aren’t trying to cover up anything. i honestly think the aruban gov. is trying to get to the bottom of this and even maybe more so than we would if it had happened over here. look how long it takes us to solve a case sometime as we do have a lot of crime and a lot for the police to keep up with and attempt to solve. i know you have to help them in every way possible and i don’t think the people on the trip are doing this to the best of their ability because they are trying to keep themselves looking good throughout this case as they are also scared. not saying anything bad about anyone just human nature–they all need to talk—were the brothers at the bar also and were they partying with girls or just sitting watching joran and natalee
stevedinmd/ i think you have something at the beginning but the ending is still unclear as there has got to be some evidence somewhere to be found just something what was she wearing that night could her clothes have been torn and a piece of material is somewhere but i do not think these guys are giving the correct vicinity and i am still leary of the brother talking to the guard in prison because as everyone sees there has been no evidence found around the marriot either. sounds like they are sending the police on a wild goose chase. what about the security guards going through the items of the girls and why were they hanging out at the holiday inn
guess everyone is gone but if anyone has any answers to my questions, i will check back in a few minutes. i think you all have most of it figured out except the ending. if joran had a boat then that sounds more like what happened after the fact and they were scared but did no one see or hear a boat leave the marina that night. they say most things happen close to home maybe it all happened close to the holiday inn. have the police checked the boat for any evidence?
Sandy:
I don’t think Natalee ever made it to the Mariott. That’s just where I suspect the boys had originally planned to dump her after having their way with her. In all likelihood, she didn’t survive the rape. As for evidence, it’s a good possiblity that none will ever be found — that is, unless they find the body, itself. With an incapacitated rape victim, there’s no need to tear clothing. It can be carefully removed, and just as carefully replaced after the deed is done. This is why date rape drugs are becoming so prevalent — they very effectively eliminate most of the historical tell tale signs of sexual assault. As for the boys not giving the correct location, you can just assume that away. They’ll NEVER voluntarily give that up. As for the security guards, pilfering, etc. I’m inclined to view these as extraneous information until something more interesting reveals itself relative to these.
Sandy:
To finish my thought about Natalee’s clothing, I expect that it was all replaced and disposed of together with the body. If the body is ever found, the clothing in all likelihood will be on it.
Fyi
Dutch newspaper The Telegraaf says that the Court of the Neth. Antilles has ruled that the father of Joran may visit him.
link:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/21865141/Vader_mag_van_moord_verdachte_zoon_Aruba_bezoeken.html
Steve, I agree with you that the rape was probably premeditated. Something went terribly wrong and not as planned and chaos set in and she was killed. I also agree that this was done in some secluded place and not at a home. As the old saying goes, don’t crap where you eat. A little crude, but true. I think Joran had the brothers go along for the “ride”, so to speak, in case NH was harder to control than he thought or just to help him to get back and forth to the car since she was probably incapacitated. I do think Joran is guilty and not an innocent bystander, I don’t care how young he is. We have children, little ones, today commiting crimes such as molestation and murder. Hence the boy in Florida who killed his infant half sister because she would not stop crying. (a violent death at that by beating her to death) They are saying this child may not be punished in any form. I don’t think we should “gas” him, but he needs to be appropriately punished. That’s why I don’t put anything past a 17-year old. All I can say is our world is in a sad state of affairs with now our children commiting these crimes. Grab your hand baskets everyone, because we are go to hell in them.
scary but true Jc
I don’t believe it
Ya know last night I asked a question regarding, why no one has called upon a “Psychic” to get involved and see if they can render some assistance? I went further and contacted one who is well known and it was stated to me that she would gladly get involved and do what she could only if the family would ask her to do so and she would do it cost free for the family. I personaly say what is there to lose? here is the first response I had recieved from them after my contact.
“Thank you for your compassion towards Natalee and her family. Sylvia does not interfere with families regarding missing or murder cases unless she is asked. This is called psychic etiquette which her Grandmother Ada taught Sylvia early on in her life. Sylvia has not been asked to help in this case. Know that even if you were wealthy and had barrels of money
As for Sylvia not doing anything because she is not being paid tells me you don’t know that much about Sylvia Browne. So allow me to tell you Sylvia’s policy regarding missing/murder cases. Sylvia does not charge for cases she has done for family or police nor does she collect any reward money.
We have placed Natalee and her family on our prayer list.
Blessings,
Then I responded once again: This is the final response:
“As I mentioned before, Sylvia will not contact anyone unless she is asked by the immediate family or the police regarding missing/murder cases. This is called psychic etiquette. Not everyone believes or wants input from a psychic. It may be against their religious beliefs or moral values … would you want to offend someone who is already in pain regarding a difficult situation? Sylvia won’t and I don’t believe you would either.
An ethical person wouldn’t.
( name withheld )
Bishop/Certified Hypnotherapist
Novus Spiritus
Again, many may not believe in these works, but in this case what would one have to lose? I mean afterall She will be willing to do this cost free. Who knows things might happen and Natallee could be found, and or the guilty parties revealed. It is just a matter of getting this informatiion to the family …………… and see if they might be interested in this route.
the parents sent their young daughter to a place that is known for all you can drink, free sex, and drugs, now they’re on gteta every night moaning and poor me-ing, the PARENTS are totally responsible for the disappearance of natalee, if they want to find out why natalee is gone, take a look in the mirror, natalee was so responsible she partied hearty every night she was in aruba, got faced every night, and joined up with the little dutch boy on her last night. funny how the chaparones won’t talk.
Good morning says the Former Sheriff’s Deputy.
Natalee is still no where to be found. Lets keep the spot light on those chaperons who did not chaperon. I think we should use their poor decision making as an example of what can and will go wrong when the adults are asleep at the wheel.
And Natalee’s friends — though you didn’t pull a trigger, etc., you are equally responsible for her death for not protecting one of your own! None of you said anything because you thought she was having a one night stand. Shame on you.
The Deputy
DrillDo,
I agree with you 100%. DADA and MAMA Holloway are the goofs of the centuty!
The Deputy
Here what happened….
Mrs. Holloway wanted to have a 3-some with “Jar” & “Jug” so they sent the Nat-ster to Aruba. While Mrs. Holloway’s world was being rocked, so was the Nat-sters.
Inside Edition
Inside??? and Deputy- you guys are idiots!! It’s people like you that people like the Natalee’s of the world have to watch out for!! So she went on her grad vacation, she probably drank too much, let’s be honest here, how many of us haven’t drank too much at one time or another, that doesn’t mean she deserves whatever happened. What a shame that we have such morons among us!!
I can only speak for myself — I have *NEVER* drank to much. Never been drunk.
The Deputy
Well- that’s great, I applaude you for that, but realistically, you are a minority. That doesn’t give you the right to think you are better than people who do like to go out and have an innocent good time with their friends…..Shit happens, Natalee was at the wrong place at the wrong time, she thought she could trust these guys, but from what it sounds like she trusted the wrong people.
The former deputy had it right earlier directing an important part of the attention to these chaperones (worthless) and the half assed classmates – truly the blind leading the blind – drinking with friends is fine when it is in balance -it is when it crosses the line into stupidity that the problems start (i.e: drunk driving,date rape,murder etc…)
I’d like to see the high profile media focus more on that part of what led up to this situation.
Knowledge is power.
Perhaps the only silver lining to this Natalee deal (regardless of outcome) is the hard learned lesson of half assed priorities and how it is going on right now all over America.
Elvis P.
Well an other arrest has been made name not released nor the gender.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/
26 years old – initials SGC – no gender
THE CHAPARONES are now saying thru their “spokeshole” that they weren’t chaparones at all, but rather “facilatators”, faciltate what, immature 17 and 18 yr olds living out what they watched on countless spring break girls gone wild videos, how can a barely 18 yr old natalee, who is a tea tootler goody two shoes back in BAMA, get faced every single night she was there at a tijuana style tourist bar c and c’s, and not have the judgement to go home with the little dutch boy and the k bros. the facilitators need to TALK NOW, ON abram, mr.bill and greta and olberman style, i’m glad aruba is getting cancelations by the hundreds, serves em right for setting up their b.s. country to fleece tourists and let Dutchmen run wild in the streets.
Hi I’m here and you can ask me whatever you want………
ken tey?
Good morning from the Former Sheriff’s Deputy.
Wake up everyone, Natalee Holloway is dead. Though the body has not been found, she is no longer alive. My expertise tells me this is true.
Remember who is to blame –
Her parents for sending her on the booze cruise of a lifetime.
The worthless chaperons who did nothing.
Her “friends” who felt it best to say nothings they thought she was sleeping with a guy.
The various locals who were nothing short of being animals.
The Deputy
Tom/Red,
How come you guys can’t stay more current. This thread is dated June 16th. Can’t you have one for each day. Why are people adding comments to a thread dated June 16th.
It is very hard to find the current information when we must sift through threads that don’t have the current date.
Barry G.
lets have some more info, on the newly arrested ‘crews” the party boat d.j., according to reports he knew one of the suspects in custody from the internet cafe, thats means deepak k. turned crews in which led to his arrest, did crews use his party boat to dispose of natalee? MOMMY Holloway is starting to lose it, shes really, really, really pissed offed, the barney fife police are starting to get to her. the Deputy is right on and solid.
DrillDo,
Thanks for you comments. It is a serious of poor decision that lead to where the Natalee situation is today.
And what is with this Blog. See comment from Barry G. I agree with him. Does it appear to you that we have to search through out dated content to get to the current news? I think so.
You are right, Mrs. Holloway looks terrible.
The Deputy
UM, HELLO, WILL ANYONE MAKE THEM TAKE A LIE DETECTOR TEST??????
I read somewhere on aol news I think it was, that Mrs. Holloway had gone to Alabama to take care of her son, I can understand that, but she just made it seem like finding Natalee is a hopeless cause, but thats just what I’m thinking. Of all the posts I’ve read in here they are all logical yet I still go along with that Natalee is still standing and waiting for someone to get her out of whatever jam she is in. Aruba is a small island and I’ve more messages hear about the smuggling. It seems to be a little less inaccurate since Natalee can’t be found anywhere in Aruba.
Yes I agree with HOPE too, a lie detector test would help even a little bit if possible.
Please someone tell Beth Holloway to have police look at insenarators
on that island.