Natalee Holloway; June 16 2005

 

(Fox): Today in Aruba a court will rule as to whether or not to allow the father, Paul van der Sloot, and lawyers for three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case to see their clients and the evidence against them. Yesterday Paul van der Sloot filed a motion allowing him to see his son.

An Aruban court on Thursday will rule on whether to allow the father and lawyers for three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case to see their clients and the evidence compiled against them.

Aruban authorities had denied visitation because of the father’s status. The father is a wealthy judge-in-training on the island, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases.

“When you’re a minor you have a right to visitation from your parents. But because of legal concerns, because the father is part of the legal system, that right was not granted in the first instance,” said Aruba government spokesman Rueben Trappenberg. Another judge will decide if the boy’s father can visit him after the motion is filed.

(ABC): Meanwhile the home of the 17-year-old Dutch teen, Joran van der Sloot, was searched and investgators later emerging from the home carrying several full plastic bags and towing two cars.

Aruban police searched the home of a high-ranking Dutch judicial official whose son was with Natalee Holloway the night she disappeared, emerging four hours later carrying several full plastic bags and towing two cars.

Two white-uniformed investigators from Holland on Wednesday also entered the yellow-beige home, which includes an attached apartment where the young man lives, carrying suitcases. They later returned the suitcases to their white, unmarked car.

However, as the search of the van der Sloot home was conducted yesterday and evidence removed many have questioned why this had not occurred earlier? Aruban authorities have stated that the 3 suspects now in jail had been tracked by electronic surveillance and there phones tapped after that had originally been let out and only been given the status of “witnesses”. The current push to investigate the van der Sloot home has some wondering whether is is, Too Little, Too Late?

While Aruban authorities on Wednesday searched the home of a teenager who was one of the last people to see a Natalee Holloway, legal and investigative experts said the search, along with many other investigative techniques, could have been done long ago.

The investigation has “been severely compromised because what they’re doing now they should have done two weeks ago,” said forensic pathologist Michael Baden, who added that evidence could have been hidden or washed away within the past two weeks from the time the Alabama teen went missing and Wednesday’s search.

“The chances of finding anything significant has been greatly reduced by the two week’s interval,” he added.

The Birmingham News, Police investigating using helicopter to survey island before dawn Thursday.

Police investigating Natalee Holloway’s disappearance made a helicopter survey of this Dutch Caribbean island before dawn Thursday after seizing cars and other items at the home of a judicial official whose son was with the Alabama teen the night she vanished.

A judge was expected to rule later Thursday on a motion from the official to see his 17-year-old son, who is being held along with two friends from Suriname. The judge also was to rule on a request by lawyers for the two Surinamese to see any evidence against their clients.

Authorities did not return phone calls seeking information about the helicopter flight. In a statement released late Wednesday, officials said the helicopter would conduct “technical investigations” across the island during the night.

Video and more news from MSNBC.

‘Pieces’ to puzzle found
Government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg said investigators were making progress.

“They’re getting pieces that they need to solve this puzzle, put it together,” he told CNBC. “It is a question of national priority for us.”

Posted June 16, 2005 by
Natalee Holloway | 829 comments


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  • Comments

    829 Responses to “Natalee Holloway; June 16 2005”

    1. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 9:02 am

      when will this “court rule” doesn anyone know? I dont think that he should be able to visit… he has already covered up enough i am sure!

    2. Red on June 16th, 2005 9:06 am

      marie from maine

      Not sure of time, but it is supposed to be later today.

    3. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:11 am

      Has anyone heard anything on whether the military helicoptor with infrared turned up anything last night?

    4. MikeM on June 16th, 2005 9:15 am

      Some questions for those of you who are following this closely:

      1)Do you believe that Joran is the sole perpetrator of this crime, or do you think the Surinamese boys also were involved in bringing harm to the victim?
      2)Do you believe she died as a result of a GHB/date rape overdose, or due to some kind of assault or accident resulting from the assault (i.e. – she tried to run away, slips and falls)?
      3)Do you believe that the Aruban police deliberately chose not to search their houses for evidenced and reel the 3 boys in immediately in order to give them time to coordinate stories, dispose of evidence, and generally allow the contamination of evidence? They could have done so, using the “cover story” that releasing them and keeping them under surveillance was their plan, when in fact they knew this would let them off the hook later because a defense attorney would be able to pick apart any evidence they gathered in searches conducted 2 weeks after the fact? If I was a police investigator, and I wanted to protect the son of a local political figure, I would want to be very discreet and subtle in how I helped him get off the hook. Is that what is going on here with the bizarre investigation methodology? Or is this just a simple case of an inexperienced police team from a different criminal investigatory culture?
      4)Does anyone really still believe there is a plausible scenario where Natalee is still alive? Does anyone have a plausible scenario for her disappearance that does not involve the 3 boys now under arrest?

      I would appreciate hearing opinions based on sound logic and the facts of the case that have been made available at this time.

    5. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:18 am

      except I will say this, if they got any confessions on tape whilst tapping the boys phones, that would be very strong evidence, however it appears the boys have been smart enough not to mention locations on those phone conversations or presumably Natalee would have been found by now, the cops certainly know the boys were colluding to make up alibis etc, they may know where the boys stashed incriminating evidence, and in fact maybe the Aruban police have forensic evidence from before this date and they’ve just kept their mouths shut

      I don’t know – you watch enough CSI and they can solve cases that are 20 years old with new technologies…

      I heard that it looked like the Arubans did allow some American forensic specialists in that house along with some Dutch…….

    6. Kelly on June 16th, 2005 9:22 am

      IF HE IS ALLOWED TO SEEE HIM….!#@#$% GONNA HIT THE FAN OVA THERE!

    7. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:24 am

      like I said, they can solve previously unsolved cases using old DNA now, and again while this is just TV, I’ve seen it on CSI where a limo was PROFESSIONALLY detailed before CSI could get to it and they still found blood using the luminol……all over the rear car seat, as well as hair

      if for example, Joran has anything that belonged to Natalee or anything that has her blood or hair on it, he’s done, as I said yesterday a guy in Canada was convicted for murder without finding the body [they still haven't found the body] on basically that kind of evidence, in conjunction with the fact he had been stalking her……

      if they find any of Natalee’s DNA in any of the cars not driven by the brothers, that means Joran was lying and someone moved her body, and may indeed implicate his family as accessories after the fact….

    8. Angela on June 16th, 2005 9:25 am

      I really don’t think that Judge Van der Sloot should be able to see his son. Theres not telling what he’d say…I agree with Kelly.

    9. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:25 am

      I tend to believe Joran suffocated her to keep from yelling in a sexual assault situation, I do believe the brothers are involved in that they helped to cover up the crime and helped to temporarily dispose of/hide the body of NH. I also strongly have come to believe daddy has helped and used connections to cover the crime and permantly dispose of the body. I also believe Joran’s mom has knowledge of the crime and coverup.
      I personally do not believe drugs to be involved, I do not believe she took drugs nor do I believe Joran had to give this girl anything to get her to go with him, after days of hanging out she trusted him.
      I do believe Aruban authorities are trying to help in covering the crime by consistently allowing the families particularly Joran’s to dispose of any evidence.
      I think the only paluaisble situation Natalee is alive is that she was sold to someone and I do not really believe that but it does happen in that area of the world, Joran’s love of gambling would be the motive in a situation like that.

    10. Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:26 am

      Mike M.

      1) I originally thought it was Joren who was responsible for Natalee’s death and the other two helped him cover his crime. BUT, nowthat they’ve all been in custody a week and no real confession from anyone I am leaning back to the idea that all 3 were involved in her death more or less equally,though I still see Joran as the ringleader.

      2) I think if it was just an OD they would have left her on a beach close to the HI and just said she was intoxicated and walking toward her hotel when they left, there would be no way to prove that she didn’t take somethingon her own. So I kind of discount this idea by now. Same with a slip or a fall or something not done on purpose…they could have said it was an accident or left her and said it must have happened after they left. My conclusion now is that there was enough violence done to Natalee that none of them will say where her body is.

      3) I see it as a combination of first not believing nice local boys were capable of such a crime, the local police probably thought she ran away, and just GROSS incompetance on their part. Whether they are more covering up their own mistakes or are truly trying to make it so these boys go free, I don’t know. But I believe an unsolved disappearnace is better for Aruba than an confirmed rape or gang rape and murder.

      4) No, none that I can see.

    11. Reese on June 16th, 2005 9:27 am

      hello all, i have been following this story along with you. And I have a thought and want to know what you think. #1 No one expected Natalees family to show up so soon after her disapearance, which pushed the police in to so called action on her disapearance. As slow s they have been going We are pretty sure that they trying to covor something up,. Maybe this is alot bigger than we imagined ( if thats possible) maybe while they were investagating Natalee’s disapearace they uncovered Daddy dearest connection with the drug sugglers or the slave trading. And while they are holding his son on one case they are gathering inforamtion on dad relating to another. Ot the two are tied together.

    12. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:29 am

      Cancon – How can you say that anything that has NH’s hair on it and is Joran’s belongings that would sink Joran, he has admitted to spending three days with this girl and by other accounts has made out with her. It is not like he said he did not know her. Blood is a different story but I think she was suffocated so there would be no blood.

    13. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:29 am

      personally I am wondering if the reason they don’t want the father seeing his son is because they suspect the old man is part of the coverup too and they don’t want him and the kid to co-ordinate stories, can they legally bug jail visits from parents?

    14. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:31 am

      Cancon – The father is defiantely involved.

    15. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:32 am

      Higher up families will always try and protect the family name even if it means covering up a murder.

    16. Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:32 am

      Cancon

      Yeah, I am starting to think that Joren’s father may have participated in the cover up and in hiding her body…

      The three guys do not seem smart enough to have hidden her this good for this long, it starts to seem like someone more experienced and mature is involved.

    17. Curaçao on June 16th, 2005 9:33 am

      Hm… i’ve been reading this for some time, There are a few things I find very strange in this whole case, but i’ve seen that others had ask themselves the same questions, like how the hell the friends just let her go alone with 3 strangers, why didn’t anyone noticed that she didn’t returned to the hotel, why did they release the 3 boys in the first place (in the beginning) and why the hell is this not solve yet. I find it unbelievable how 3 boys of that age, can hide something so good or well that the proffesional cops cant crack them, what the hell is going on over there???????

    18. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:34 am

      you have a point about the hair unless it turns up in a vehicle other than the one driven in that night, oh like one of the Van Der Sloot family vehicles, oh like in the trunk? and there is no evidence that Natalee was in any other vehicle with this guy and that seems to be the evidence from what the mother was saying, Greta had a great interview last night with Mrs. Holloway – she is a driven lady Mrs. Holloway and you can tell this is taking a toll on her, but she says she won’t believe Natalee is dead until God tells her she’s dead…….

    19. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:34 am

      Cas- My theory is this body was clumsily hidden originally and later permantely dumped with daddy’s help. i have decided the only hope of finding NH was lost in the first couple of days.

    20. Reese on June 16th, 2005 9:35 am

      well if dad is involved then that would explain the dragging of the feet as far as the law is concerned. Hm being a judge in training they will have to get iron clad evidence on him and or his son to be sure that they can not get off and maybe save a little of Aruba’s tourist atraction.

    21. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:36 am

      The problem with hair is still that he can always say her hair was on his clothing and it was transferred to another vehicle. I honestly think this case dies without a body at this point. I agree on NH’s mom, very stong and committed to seeing this through.

    22. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:37 am

      and Cas, that may also explain why the Aruban police are proceeding so carefully because they want to build up an airtight case not only vs the kid but the father – going after judges/lawyers/justice officials/politicians is like celebrities, you usually try to get more evidence than you would in the case of Joe Blow because of the potential fall out if you can’t make it stick

      they better have those judges from Curacao on standby from now on……

    23. Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:38 am

      CRS,

      I think you might be right. How can 3 guys who have been drinking at least dispose of a girl on a tiny island in the middle of the night so well that the entire Aruban police force and the FBI can’t find her?

      Joran’s second story where he is dropped off before Natalee is totally illogical based on the geography, so he tells this totally dumb lie but he can hide a body this way?

      I still think the police dont’ want to find her or didnt’ want to find her early because they don’t want to admit it was a violent crime. Even if they do find her soon decomposition will probably make it impossible to determine exactly what was done to her and how she died.

      But my guess would be strangulation or they beat her.

    24. Red on June 16th, 2005 9:39 am

      Don’t forget you can go to the Natalee Holloway Discussion Forum, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=3418fb6fe5c0be68789da9c96b537974

      Or on the main page click the Gray box on the upper right, “Discussion Forum”.

      Just a reminder,
      Red

    25. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:42 am

      I think the friend’s thought at the time this was a good kid, Joran I mean. A “friend” was on O’Reilly last night and he said Joran seemed like a nice guy. Hence they did not think twice when she caught a ride with them. As far them not noticing she did not return to the hotel, think about it, it is their last night in Aruba, they are partying and probably just thought she was with another group of friends. I do not think any of that to be odd. As far as boys keeping quiet, I think they are cracking a little and that is why daddy needs to get in that jail and tell them to chill out and this will be over in a 120 days. These kids will never be officailly charged due to lack of evidence.

    26. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:42 am

      crs I disagree, you don’t necessarily need the body, but it all depends on the circumstantial evidence, like what is on those surveillance tapes and whether we get any credible confessions of actual guilt……

    27. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:47 am

      CAS – Agree with everything you said, I tend to think she was not beaten, I think she was moderately tipsy and this kid just suffocated her he is 6’5 probalby 200 pounds, she is 5′ maybe 110. One thing I have wondered, is what if he suffocated her but she passes out orignally, he panicks, thinks she is dead, can’t get a pulse because she has been drinking so it is very faint, him and the brothers clumsily bury her alive and that is when she dies, i know this is an outrageous theory but who knows.

    28. Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:47 am

      CRS:

      That is EXACTLY what I think daddy wants to tell him “stop talking”….if the judge let’s him into see his son then I am going to say case over/complete cover up.

      I don’t see how they can try a case with no body and no confession, but maybe now that the FBI is observing the interrogations things will start to unfold.

      What a sick, sick story.

      Does anyone know the status on Geraldo’s story about the porn video? Did they retract it or is he sticking by it? The letter is confusing.

    29. Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:48 am

      CRS:

      I thought the same thing, they thought she was dead but she wasn’t.

    30. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:49 am

      Cancon, I just don’t think these kids crack, the longer this goes on the more incentive there is just to keep your mouth shut, I know we don’t know what they have, the authorities i mean, but I tend to believe they don’t have much. The wild card is Joran’s mom who I think knows what happens and i wonder if at some point she cracks out of guilt.

    31. Reese on June 16th, 2005 9:50 am

      I have thought of this also.

      I think she was moderately tipsy and this kid just suffocated her he is 6†²5 probalby 200 pounds, she is 5†² maybe 110. One thing I have wondered, is what if he suffocated her but she passes out orignally, he panicks, thinks she is dead, can’t get a pulse because she has been drinking so it is very faint, him and the brothers clumsily bury her alive and that is when she dies, i know this is an outrageous theory but who knows.

    32. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:53 am

      CAS, I watched Fox News last night and did not see a retraction, I know its Geraldo, but I tend to believe that story as well as the heasd investigator saying “How can I do this to Joran, he is my best friend’s son”. I don’t believe Joran killed this girl out of malice, I think to some extent it was an accident and the true crime has been comitted in the coverup.

    33. crs on June 16th, 2005 9:55 am

      Does everyone agree/disagree that this not the first time Joran has sexually assualted a girl, that is my only other hope is that someone else has the courage to come forward and say they were assaulted by this kid.

    34. Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:57 am

      CRS,

      That’s what I first thought…he was struggling with her, she hit her head or he strangled her accidentally,trying to control and subdue her but not kill her.

      But the longer there is no body the more I believe in a worst case scenario where he totally snapped and went nuts on her, or possibly they all did.

      Plus, IF, and its a big IF the brothers story is true and they did drop Joren off, then clearly somebody else helped him..back to daddy I think.

    35. cancon on June 16th, 2005 9:59 am

      I’m sorry, the brothers are already pinning it on Joran, let them sit in a jail cell a few more weeks and you’ll see what happens

      it looks to me like the Aruban police are not making the same mistake the Bermuda police did when a Canadian girl was raped and murdered on the island

      they made a deal with the one Jamaican guy before they had finished their investigation, they didn’t even wait for all the forensics to come back and they realized that the Jamaican guy was the one that raped and killed her not the Bermudian guy who was his accomplice so the Bermudian guy got off and the Jamaican guy got a slap on the wrist

      the police will wait to offer the brothers a deal, assuming the brothers were merely accomplices and not the main perpetrators, and the brothers are going to have to cough up something to corroborate their story, if and when the police get that corroboration only then are they going to offer a deal and only then are the brothers going to confess the whole story

      and as you find out more information, you use it to pressure these kids into confessing

    36. Cas on June 16th, 2005 10:02 am

      CRS:

      Yeah, I have been thinking that about other date rape or violent situations. But, most girls don’t ever say anything even in the US, other cultures, they might never come forward, plus we don’t really know how much pull these people have on the island, so if its a local girl, she still has to live there, it may not be worth it for her to speak up.

      The whole thing is truly bizarre, I mean, most stranger rape situations don’t lead to death?!?

    37. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:03 am

      CAS – I think the brothers have to be involved, why lie for him originally unless they thought it would just blow over somehow. You might be right, it might be worse than I imagine apparantly Joran did have some anger management issues. I think there is real danger of this story dying if something does not happen soon, the mainstream media will not stay down there much longer. I think daddy and the aruban authorites know this and they too hope once the media leaves that this all just kind of goes away. The other thing that concerns me, they do not have jury’s down there and ultimately a judge will decide all of this no matter what and if he is friends at all with Joran’s daddy, I think he dismisses based on a lack of evidence.

    38. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:05 am

      Cancon – I hope your right but I think the more time that passes the more likely these kids eventually walk. I have a gut feeling that maybe years from now they find this girls remains somewhere.

    39. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:06 am

      PS I am going under the assumption this girl is indeed dead because otherwise the strategy might be different

      now I have to wonder what was said on those tapped phone conversations, if they admitted or implied that she was dead over the phone, but then again wouldn’t they tell the family this?

      I did note however a more conciliatory tone from the Holloway family towards the Aruban police, on both Fox and MSNBC last night and it makes me wonder if that was just a conscious decision to be less critical or they have been informed of more information than we have and thus they are less frustrated…..

    40. Cas on June 16th, 2005 10:07 am

      CRS,

      Yeah the media will get tired of the story, but there has to be also at this point, a certain understanding that in order to really “clear” Aruba they need a resolution that will satisfy the US.

      I’m sure they expected this to be swept under the rug at first and they would just say, oh well, she’s missing, who knows what happened to her, maybe she decided to change her life, blah, blah, blah. They never counted on connections to the gov. of Alabama or a national media frenzy….

      They could still go with a full cover up, but the FBI is down there now, and sooner or later, the FBI is going to talk….and if what they have to say is “cover up” that will not be good.

      But, I change my mind on this several times a day?!

    41. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:10 am

      I think NH’s family knows you get more bees with honey and critizing the authorities was not in their best interest. I think daddy has not Joran well enough that he porbably kept his mouth shut. If they were going to watch these kids, I think they would have been better off almost never having brought them in for questioning.

    42. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:11 am

      nope, if Joran did it and the boys hide the body, they know they are going to be able to make a deal and there is no way their loyalty to their fearless leader is going to include staying in jail for months until this matter goes to trial, if they get the right deal, they’ll talk, mark my words, hell these days even Mafioso guys will rat out their buddies, the old code of silence is gone even from the Mafia……….heck even Al Queda terrorists sing like canaries, human nature baby, human nature…….

    43. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:12 am

      Cas – I have not heard about the connection to the gov. of Alabama. On the FBI, I think the arubans are keeping them at arms length to prevent that from becoming a problem.

    44. BOB on June 16th, 2005 10:13 am

      I think all three are guilty because I would not go to jail for a brother or friend of mine. or none of them are quilty just happend to be at the wrong place wrong time

    45. Bill on June 16th, 2005 10:14 am

      Fox news is now on the case big time. Bill O’riley will continue to make the officials look stupid and ask leading questions. He will not give up until he gets results. Greta is very methodical. She will continue to analyze the situation and get the most information from the officials. She has a logical approach and will continue to dive into the details. If the Aruban officials think that they will get a retraction from Fox, they are wrong. Bill and Greta will continue to beat on them until this case is resolved, and then Bill will say that he forced the Aruban authorities to do their job. This is a good thing as I think the Aruban authorities will continue to work hard on the case as long as there is media coverage, but will sweep the whole thing under the rug once the spotlight is off them.

    46. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:15 am

      Cancon, again, hope your right. I hope someone talks but I still think Joran’s mom is the best bet if as I suspect she knows the story.

    47. Vada in Maine on June 16th, 2005 10:15 am

      This was on http://www.reihlworld.com this morning. The other site that I have been reading for a while now. Has anybody else heard this??? What do you think??

      A message board poster on AOL from Aruba is claiming that three additional men are being questioned. And, that this has been going on the last two days or so. Says American news sources are reporting inaccurate information and seems to be solidly defending Van der Sloot in his posts/responses.

      Two quotes on AOL message board site:

      1) Thank you for being so positive and not blaming this all on the Arubian law enforcement. They are also now talking to three other men.

      2) Faces are blocked in the pictures. Can’t tell who they are. It was reported first about 3 days ago in awe mainta. No one else has talked about it then saw it again today in awe mainta. Unfortunately all they say is that they are two arubians and one colombian. I can speculate but that is it

      That non-English publication should be at the link. I’d think some reader here can likely disprove it.

    48. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:16 am

      Well Mrs. Holloway has already stated categorically that she is not leaving the island until her daughter is found so I don’t think there will be any let up on the Aruban police

    49. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:17 am

      Summer is typically a slow media season so that may ultimatly help NH and allow the focus to remain down there. People are very passionate about NH.

    50. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:20 am

      Vada, that is interesting, but I can’t help but wonder if this is another smoke screen thrown out there to continue to water down the investigation of the boys.

    51. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:20 am

      oh wait a minute I remember that, they picked up three guys in an armed robbery of a supermarket just a few days ago – rough looking characters too – but then, if they were the ones that killed Natalee they had to be pretty stupid to mount a robbery knowing what was going on unless they really needed the money to get off the island in a hurry

      someone had posted the link thinking the guys were the three party boys, these are much older scarier looking dudes……..

      well one of my other theories is that one or all of the guys left Natalee alone on a beach, either after raping her and just left her alone for whatever reason and perhaps some other creeps were lurking around…….they may be lying because they feel guilty about abandoning her…….

    52. Cas on June 16th, 2005 10:21 am

      I was surprised how quick they got back to Natalee after the Michael Jackson verdict fiasco. Plus, Nancy Grace…blond southerner….she’s going to feel a kinship to Natalee and her family and she won’t less this go w/out a fight.

      Plus, thinking positive, the media coverage has SLAMMED the local police, it is much more than ‘where is Natalee’ and has been so critical that they almost do now need to solve it to redeem themselves.

      I am no big fan of FOX, but without the media pressure this case would already be on the back burner.

    53. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:22 am

      Cancon, defiantely a long shot on that one, I think if that is what happened it is a no brainer to say so when you are orignally question, the simple fact is these kids have changed their stories twice so they are behind this.

    54. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:23 am

      ooh what if these three armed robbery suspects had kidnapped Natalee, maybe she is still alive, locked up somewhere in a basement or on a boat

    55. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:25 am

      Why then do the boys keep lying?

    56. Vada in Maine on June 16th, 2005 10:25 am

      crs

      I originally thought it be a smoke screen too, but now I wonder, especially how the investigation is so “hush hush” or so it seems they know more than they are telling the public.

    57. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:26 am

      Vada, explain why the boys would lie not once but twice then?

    58. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:32 am

      well let’s imagine this scenario,

      the brothers are telling the truth, they dropped of Joran and Natalee at the make out beach and went home

      Joran got creepy, they get into a big argument, maybe he rapes her, maybe not, either way, Natalee got mad and said I’m going home, leave me alone creep and she goes stomping back towards the Holiday Inn, either along the beach or on the road there, maybe she tries to find a taxi, and some creeps like these three armed robbery suspects are loitering on the beach or cruising around the island looking for potential robbery targets and pick her up

      Joran walks home himself – be interesting to know if anyone in his family is vouching for when and how Joran returned that night but since he lives in his own apartment – see that turned out to be an unfortunate thing, I’ll bet his family cannot vouch for his coming and goings……

      now if that were the case you’d think someone would have seen either of them walking, even at that time of night, or ooh, it was caught on someone’s security tapes, have they done what they do on Law & Order and check all the possible security tapes of all the establishments in that area????? gas stations, ATMs, etc????

      now the brothers are not sure if Joran is guilty or not, maybe Joran has been rough before, he’s feeling guilty because of the rape and the abandonment and thinks he is going to get blamed for her murder so they concoct the first story, because maybe they believe Joran at first when he says I didn’t kill that girl, now maybe the brothers are thinking, we’re not so sure now, and we’re not taking the fall for him, so now they are telling the truth

    59. Kim from Boston on June 16th, 2005 10:36 am

      Paul van der Sloot should not be allowed to see his son because he is a Judge or soon to be one and until we know for sure he isn’t involved they should be kept apart.

    60. Vada in Maine on June 16th, 2005 10:36 am

      I’m leaning towards the theory that they all are either directly or indirectly involved with some sort of drug/prostitution operation that is bigger than this mystery. C’mon, drugs & prostitution rings are a world wide problem, there are crooked cops everywhere too. and yes, here in the states. It might be a longshot theory but it is still a possibility. I still say that the security guard that got the so called confession from deepak knows more than he’s talking.
      Remember what happened to Elizabeth Smart? I’m still holding out hope that they find Natalee alive somewhere.
      It is also possible that the 3 of them did rape her and she either died at their hands or died of an od, and they had to dispose of her, with or without daddys help, If this is the scenario, wouldn’t there have been other clues? The fluid in the car, how long will it be before we find out what or who’s it is?

    61. Vada in Maine on June 16th, 2005 10:38 am

      they keep changing their stories to either hide the fact that one of them killed her or that they sold her….if that is the case at all, they don’t want to expose the operation because if they do, they’ll be in a pine box.

      anyways, With all the questions that come up, and the answers that come up, my theory changes more than once a day.

    62. Vada in Maine on June 16th, 2005 10:41 am

      cancon,

      You could be right too.

    63. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:42 am

      but here is another possiblity, the three robbery suspects are saying they know something or saw something implicating one or all of the boys because they want a deal

    64. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:42 am

      If the fluid you mention is the fluid found in Joran’s honda, they have previously said no further tests would be conducted on the substance since it was not blood. I tend to believe the boys never went anywhere they have said or mentioned in the news, all the places mentioned are lover’s lanes so I find it almost impossible to believe that no one would have seen or heard anything. DOes anyone not think it unusal that that not one person has come forward with an I heard, I saw story, very, very weird.

    65. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 10:43 am

      Okay…sorry. CRS, I met to respond to your comment before (was in a meeting, I am at work). I agree with you completely. They will not be able to charge these boys without a body. This father is a justice official. Therefore, unless they have any SIGNIFICANT evidence, they will never be charge. Circumstantial evidence would have already been presented by this time. These boys will get away with murder. I concede with the above poster who said that the would rather maintain Natalee’s “missing” status, then show that an American was brutally murdered in Aruba. We are 70% of their economy. Joran’s father, as most judges are, I am sure is very amicable the Aruban government. Therefore, they ALL have conspired and have covered up this crime. Searching Joran’s home last night was only to pacify the American public. It was just for show. They have no intention of finding evidence or Natalee.

    66. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:45 am

      Anyhow, what I am getting at is that island seems to be very much a what happens here, stays here at all cost.

    67. Vada in Maine on June 16th, 2005 10:47 am

      crs, yes very weird no one seems to have come forward (or at least the public be aware of people coming forward) with info of seeing them anywhere.

    68. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:47 am

      ALLY – Excellent point on closing this case as a missing persons case rather than a rape/murder.

    69. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:49 am

      VADA, yep, maybe I am too amercaninized and am used to someone always coming forward with a story but I do think it is very weird, I mean not one person saw something, heard something, saw something strange, i mean this kids neighbors didn’t possibly notice something.

    70. Scaredy Kat on June 16th, 2005 10:51 am

      What have the boy’s parents been doing? If it was my son in that hot water, I’d have been scouring the island myself. Also, if my son was in jail, and the fact that I’m involved in the system (which I am here in the US) then I’d quit. Immediately. This whole thing stinks on many levels. The comment from boy’s mom that “he told me everything was going to be okay” would make me more nervous, he’s 17 afterall. I would have dragged his sorry self to each and every place they went together and talk to everyone there. Also, it’s pretty goofy that the radio station has folks from the public out looking…shouldn’t the police be doing that?

    71. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 10:52 am

      I truly am beginning to think there is some cover up going on.

    72. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:52 am

      well don’t forget this happened in the middle of the night, if it happened on the beach in a secluded area it is likely no one saw anything

      however if a young blonde girl was walking alone in the middle of the night I’d think a lot of people would notice,

      hard to say how many people would still be up and around at 2 – 3 am and sober enough to remember anything

    73. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 10:53 am

      that is a good point, and the only other valid option

    74. cancon on June 16th, 2005 10:55 am

      I mean you guys act as if every single missing persons case and murder in the US and Canada is solved, not by a long shot kids

      we have an unsolved missing persons case in my hometown, a woman went to work early in the morning, she worked in a bakery, she lived near the industrial area of town so there should be some traffic, she never arrived, that was 15 years ago…….and I live in a town with the population of Aruba

      no body been found, no forensic evidence, now the husband came under suspicion but they had nada on the husband………

    75. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 10:55 am

      crs–ur right, how can no one on such a small island not have observed anything? Scaredy Kat, u are also right, thus just demonstrating, once again, that they ALL are involved and covering this up. As long as she goes “missing”….no one anywhere can link this island to Natalee’s “murder”

    76. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:56 am

      Realize, this is a tourist haven with casinos and other hot spots so I think this is a 24 town we are talikng about here, as i mentioned these are lovers lanes so i would think others would been around which makes me think they did go to the places they have said at all and went somewhere much more secluded which I think implicates the brothers more, Cancon, don’t you think if Joran and NH were really dropped off by Marriott someone would have seen something?

    77. crs on June 16th, 2005 10:58 am

      I agree, many cases do go unsolved but most do not get 1/1000th of the attention this case has received

    78. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 11:00 am

      and most do not involve an American teenager, on foreign land, and on her graduation field trip,

    79. cancon on June 16th, 2005 11:01 am

      come on guys, tell me can you recount to me all the people and cars you have seen today, just driving to work, or whatever, I couldn’t, sometimes when I see something suspicious I try to file in my brain, sometimes I even write down a plate number etc otherwise I’ll forget, I can’t identify most makes of cars since they all look the same these days

      I mean you have guys snatching little girls out of the same house where the family is asleep, come on, what’s wrong with that family????

      have none of you ever done the eye witness test – we did in one of my classes at uni –
      the professor scared us,

      the professor walks in to class, as usual and all of sudden there are two people running in the classroom, a male and a female, not students and some kind of commotion ensues – see I can’t even remember if it was a fight or staged mugging or what and then they leave, all takes place in under a minute

      the professor says, OK describe the male and the female, well there were 300 people in that class and there were about 300 descriptions of the event and the people involved……..

    80. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 11:01 am

      Cancon, u make a lot of sense to me. Hindsight is 20/20.

    81. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 11:03 am

      did you guys see the O’Reily Factor last night? The woman talk show host from here in Birmingham was a little bit of an embarassment, even though she has a few good points. People here in Birmingham seem to be asking why it is taking so long.

    82. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 11:05 am

      Cancon…very good point… But waht about if you saw one blonde teenager come into your classroom disheveled and beaten…, wouldn’t u notice? or if you saw your neighbor carrying something or placing anything in plastic bags the day after his son was “last seen” with a missing girl?

    83. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:07 am

      Cancon, right, some good points and you are kind of supporting what I say, and maybe I am wrong and people have come forward to say they saw this or that but to my knowledge not one person has and certainly if you were in the areas mentioned on the news so far it seems you would have thought back about what you did see and it seems even if insignificant people would be talking.

    84. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:11 am

      I agree with you RB, the radio host was just a loud mouth and more often than not did not seem to know what she was talking about.

    85. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 11:22 am

      and that is the way she is on the radio most of the time as well. rash and emotional

    86. Hyscience on June 16th, 2005 11:25 am

      Natalee Holloway Thursday Updates

      Here are today’s updates on Natalee:

    87. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 11:26 am

      As much as I hate the pace of this investigation and it is so frustrationg from here in the US because we are getting no information on any evidence they have. I want to scream cover up. BUT the Arubian govt knows the whole world is watching them and in particular the US which really accounts for their enitre economic exsistance. So I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to realize that it is their culture, customs and laws. It may seem like like that is a small island but in retropsect looking for a body would be a very dificult job. If they really did put themunder servalliance then that means they would of had to make sure her body was well hidden before they were arrested. If it was after then I think you have to conclude someone else is involved with helping them. IE: Dear old Dad

      In any event I have no doubt that these three drugged her. The security guard made the statement that he was told that she was really drunk. Well I don’t think the one brother is going to tell them Hey she was really fucked up after we dropped the GHB into her drink. I have no doubt this is not the first time it has happened. I believe that Joran had his sites on her for the entire week and I think he planned all along to get laid by her regardless of what it took to do it. Did he plan on killing her. I doubt it but from all accounts he has major anger issues. Maybe she wasn’t as drugged as he had hoped and she tried to fight him off. If she was really dropped off I don’t think thier stories would be changing. Bottom line I think they all have a part in it…

    88. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:27 am

      Does anyone on here blame NH herself, NH’s parents, chaperones, her friends, etc.? I personally do not but I am interested in other perspectives.

    89. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:33 am

      I agree on it being a tough case if they had not had these suspects in their sites immediately, hell, NH’s mom, tracked them down after literally being on the island for just a few hours based on the interview I saw Greta do with her last night. i am convinced all these searches are now smokescreens, too much time has passed and as another poster has said, it is in Aruba’s best interest to end this case as a missing person/unsolved then to have it end as a rape/murder. i also do not think she was drugged, O’Reilly had a girl on last night who said she was tipse but totally coherent, I think she just totally trusted this guy.

    90. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 11:35 am

      The kids on O’Reilly last night were wonderful, but very cautious in what they said. An 18-year old who herself may be tipsy may not be the best source of judgment on another 18-year old.

    91. asdf on June 16th, 2005 11:37 am

      crs – Absolutely not. No girl/woman deserves to go through this regardless of irresponsibility. The focus should be to find her, not to find out who did it. The unknown of not knowing where she is, is killing her parents.

    92. jESSICA on June 16th, 2005 11:37 am

      Timmie if u r reading this posting ,pls call me at jesicca cell,I ‘ll explain it 2 u

    93. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 11:37 am

      crs – Do you really want to hear from people who would blame any of those others? Because that would be an absurb idiot speaking.

    94. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 11:38 am

      you are exactly right…and since when does an 18 year old know how to “drink responsibly” when they’re underage to begin with.

    95. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:41 am

      I agree, the kids were very cautious and picking their words carefully.

    96. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 11:45 am

      ASDF—CRS was just trying to get another perspective..He was not placing culpability….

    97. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 11:45 am

      Have any of you heard any news of any sort this morning?

    98. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 11:46 am

      They were cautious. I was impressed with that. But, RB is so correct. From what I know of teenagers (I’ve had 3 – ouch) there is no such thing as responsible drinking. At least in the US, where it is illegal to drink under the age of 21, you cannot be responsible if you are 18 and drinking.

    99. asdf on June 16th, 2005 11:46 am

      Ally – Thanks, I kinda figured that out when he/she said “I am interested in other perspectives”.

    100. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 11:46 am

      Trisher. I agree. I am sure they both were tipsy and thus not very observant and perceptive of anything going on at the end of the night

    101. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:47 am

      Interesting picture of Joran being led out of court on CNN.Com, he looks like he has been crying and at the same time looks mad/angry.

    102. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 11:48 am

      then if u did, you would be such a “close minded” poster..I thought the rieteration was deemed necessary

    103. Cas on June 16th, 2005 11:48 am

      Well, there was a time when the drinking age was 18 here too and in most countries arouond the world 18 year olds can drink, so apparently there do exist millions of 18 year olds who can drink responsibly.

      Its unfair to assume that every single person on this trip was falling down drunk and completely irresponsible.

      The girl on O’Reilly said she was circling back to make sure no one was left behind. Does that sound like the actions of someone trashed out of their mind?

    104. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:49 am

      Another site is reporting of a new search in a different, somewhat more remote area of the island.

    105. TJ W on June 16th, 2005 11:50 am

      Hi CRS! I do not blame Natalee herself nor her parents but I do have a little bit of a problem with the “chaperones.” The word itself is defined as “chaperon, chaperone – one who accompanies and supervises a young woman or gatherings of young people.” Being that I am the mother of a 17 year old daughter who is a very responsible, level headed gal, academically gifted except for Trig but that is another story(!), athletic, no drugs and no drinking, my husband and I would have accompanied this group of kids (as we have always chaperoned my daughter’s trips/proms/homecoming/football games with her school). Our group requires one chaperone per five kids and regardless of how old they are, I would do a bedcheck every night and accompany them, especially to a place like Carlos-N-Charlie’s (if I would even let them go in the first place). I would be there to CHAPERONE. I would not “cramp” their style when accompanying them to these places, but I would most definitely have been there and made sure that every single one of those kids would have got on the bus to the hotel and not in a private car with three boys. Of course, it most definitely would have been a difficult task if all 124 kids were at CnC that night but with one chaperone per five kids, it is not an impossible task. We have taken our daughter on the school trips with upwards of 180 kids (HUGE BAND) to New York City, Orlando, Boston and will be traveling again next spring with them. I can’t even imagine how the parents who did chaperone the trip with Mountain Brook feel right now, I would be absolutely devastated. I do realize that things happen that are out of our control. I am going to take (already have and will do so repeatedly) this opportunity to talk to my daughter and her friends also about the importance of watching out for each other and not going out at night alone (to parties, games, whatever) as they approach the age of 18 (because that is when they feel they can)! Even in college, they always need to “buddy up” and not go it alone as young adults at that age do not feel vulnerable. I made some very bad decisions when I was 18 in, ahem, 1982 (!) and thankfully I am here today.

    106. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 11:50 am

      thanks Trisher. It scares me to think that some of these “sheltered” parents truly think that their 18 yr old is actually a responsible drinker.

    107. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:53 am

      TJW – Thanks for the honesty, good post. As you say, I am certain the chaperones do feel terrible over the whole thing and i am certain all of them will always wonder in some form “What if”.

    108. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 11:54 am

      Cas, u are right and we shouldn’t assume that. The girl did say she was looking for other people so that they would not be left behind. But the truth is whether or not she was drunk or not, she and no one else is able to provide any significant details of what has happened.

    109. asdf on June 16th, 2005 11:54 am

      A LOT of kids grow up these days so FAST and think they have everything under control. You could be 30 and not responsible for your actions when you’re drinking. It’s so unfortunate what happened to Natalee and I hope they find her just so the family can have some peace.

    110. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 11:54 am

      CAS, no one said the students were trashed out of their minds. But you know as well as I do if a girl, of their size, gets a few beers/drinks in her, they’re not thinking like they would if they were sober. It doesn’t take much to understand that.

    111. TJ W on June 16th, 2005 11:55 am

      Yes, another good point! I also know that even though my 17 year old daughter is very responsible, I also know that she is a teenager and will want to “cut loose” eventually and that time is coming very soon. Not a blind nor sheltered parent here because I went through it without my parents around! My daughter will eventually cut loose as I do expect it and I expect it from her friends also. But, if they schedule any trips to do this, you can bet myself and my husband will be there too.

    112. crs on June 16th, 2005 11:57 am

      Has anyone else seen on CNN the last couple of nights where they are following a group of kids down there, it is scary, that even after NH, these kids are still just out of their minds drunk and still not really thinking this kind of thing can happen to them. They asked one of the girls as she’s coming out of Carlos and Charlies, what have you been drinking and she says “Sex on the beach and it makes you want to have sex on the beach”, she is just out of her mind drunk. It is sad this has not been more of a lesson. Also, that girls parents must be so proud!

    113. TJ W on June 16th, 2005 11:58 am

      CRS, that is frightening. I haven’t seen that yet.

    114. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:00 pm

      It is usually on the Anderson Cooper show at 7, catch it if you can, I think it is a week long series and they are supposed to have the “Sex on the beach” girl’s parents on tonight.

    115. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:01 pm

      lol, ya very proud and very dumb. Her parents probably have no clue because kids cover up a lot to their parents for fear they may be in trouble or dissapoint them.

    116. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:01 pm

      I think that the authorities in Aruba are desperate and are looking for a scapegoat because of the international press. They probably don’t have evidence against these three guys and I think that they will be set free in the next week or so. It’s going to turn into another unsolved missing persons case, something that happens quite often in the U.S.

    117. TJ W on June 16th, 2005 12:01 pm

      I will try to catch it – awful. Well, finished working for the day, now must head outside to get some work done out there! Stay nice everyone.

    118. Cas on June 16th, 2005 12:03 pm

      RBinBHam,

      I agree with you on that.

      I’m not saying that drinking doesn’t change your perception of a lot of things, it does for everyone, no matter how old they are. Most people are friendler and less cautious, more open to talk to strangers, etc. etc. Adult women get raped all the time by people they meet in clubs and bars and think they can trust. They might or might not have picked up danger signals if they had been sober.

      I only think that to assume that everyone on the trip was totally out of control and drunk out of their minds is unfair. Some probaby were, some probaby weren’t. And it seems clear that they were at least trying to look out for each other and keep tabs on each other, it wasn’t a total every man for himself free for all.

      Bottom line, most 18 year olds in that situation would probably have trusted Joren enough to get a ride back to the hotel with him.

    119. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:04 pm

      I would bet money this girl’s parents come on and go “She’s just having fun, letting loose”, certainly not all parents today, but many, want to be their kids friends versus being the parent. I am certainly not saying or implying that is the case with NH, by all accounts and by my own observations of the parents on tv, they seem to be a great family. But I think you can tell Joran’s parents are like that, they want to be his buddy first, he has obviously been taught the rules don’t apply to him, he is gambling and driving and legally in Aruba he can do neither.

    120. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:05 pm

      Adult woman get raped all the time by people they meet in bars. Wow, that’s a pretty bold statement

    121. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:06 pm

      crs – Great point! I agree 100%. Be the parent, period. Children do not need you as a friend, there are plenty of people to be friends with. They learn from you and parents need to be parents.

    122. Connie on June 16th, 2005 12:08 pm

      Sad. It’s getting harder and harder to find any new information about Natalie. Unfortunately, there are other things happening around the world, and everything that’s happening in aruba is taking the back seat. I don’t recall ever being so anxious to find information out about anything like this before. Couldn’t they at least give us something?

    123. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 12:08 pm

      I don’t believe, or assume, that everyone on the trip was totally drunk out of their minds either. I’m sure there were some that were not drinking at all. My point was an observation only.

      And you’re right, most teenagers would have trusted Joren…but hopefully you and I won’t raise “normal teenagers”!!

    124. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:08 pm

      I agree CAS. Many would have accepted the ride. Mine probably would have. And I raised them to be responsible, law abiding people. To say ALL were drunk is probably an overstatement. I have seen the bit on Anderson Cooper and that is scary. But we know it happens. They even showed the parent watching the video of their daughter last night.

    125. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:10 pm

      Trisher – I didn’t see it. What did the parent do/reaction when they saw it?

    126. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 12:11 pm

      CRS…

      She could of been drugged in the car. They could of had drinks with them. Or it was slipped into her drink just before she left. All of this could of been very premediated on these three part….

    127. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:11 pm

      These kids are doing nothing illegal down there. What they are doing would be illegal here. Their parents should know what is going on. The chaperones were not probably there literally as “chaperones.” It does not mean their parents approve. It means they are 18 years old and technically adults.

    128. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:11 pm

      I agree, I think 99/100 kids take the ride, at that age your invinsible, nothing bad can happen to you, your just out having a good time, its just a ride, I have known this guy for three days and he’s great, its my last night here, you know all those thoughts ran through her head. Kids today really need to understand that every decision they make, every day counts.

    129. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:12 pm

      ASDS – The parents just sat there and sort of smiled and said “well she’s the homecoming queen and she makes good decisions. Her friends are there and they watch out for each other.”

    130. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:13 pm

      CRS – OMG – someone who thinks like I do. That is so true. THey think they are invincible – until something like this happens to THEM. Otherwise, life is great.

    131. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:14 pm

      Am I the only one who would like to smack her parents to give them a “wake-up” call? I would have started balling my head off if I saw that video of my daughter.

    132. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:14 pm

      I think that the chaperones were trying to make sure that none of the students would indulge in any sexual activity with one and other in the hotel rooms or something. They neglected to realize that the danger could come form somehwere outside of the student group

    133. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:15 pm

      Justin, your right, anything could have happened once they drove off, I just don’t know how premeditated it was, who else thinks it is possible, the boys drove NH and Joran back to his place, let’s remember we now know he has an apartment where his parents probably do not know his comings or goings and this is really where everything happened.

    134. RBinBham on June 16th, 2005 12:15 pm

      I don’t know about you all, but the bottom line is, I’m very sad it happened, for her, her friends, her family. It is not NH’s fault, as in, no one deserves to have this happen to them. She is the victim.

    135. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:15 pm

      I have 3 daughters who would not have even asked me to go on their trip to Cancun – no way I would have let them. But that does not mean that that is how every parent thinks or acts. And it doesn’t mean that they did not get into their own sort of trouble around here. Unfortunately for Natalee and her family, she was not lucky.

    136. CeeCee on June 16th, 2005 12:16 pm

      I just read the interview Greta has with Natalee’s mom….It will be on TV tonight

    137. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 12:16 pm

      I find it odd that they cant even find ANYONE to come forward that links them, unusual that there isnt anyone (if arubans really wants this solved to try to rebuild their lives) i mean nobody saying hey i sold him rufies or i saw him dealing X
      this is why i thinnk it has a bigger tie to the underground drug world- otherwise SOMEONE would ahve cracked, it is just a web of varrious fowl plays and nobody wants to kill their cash cow ?
      eh?

    138. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:18 pm

      Natalee’s mom is amazing with Greta.

    139. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:18 pm

      Agreed it is sad but i hope that the sadness leads to more communication between parents and kids today and that is Natalee’s legacy and a great legacy that this does not happen to anyone else.

    140. Cas on June 16th, 2005 12:19 pm

      HOMECOMING QUEEN.

      That was totally bizarre, I thought it was strange they went on TV at all, but to go and defend their daughter, who WAS clearly falling down drunk and didn’t care where her ‘buddy’ was is unbelievable. It is not okay to get that drunk and wander around by yourself taking about sex on the beach. At any age it is collosal bad judgement.

      They should have grounded her and given her a serious talk. I am sure she is a good kid, but don’t go on nat. TV and say its okay that your daughter is dead drunk talking to TV reporters with no clue where her buddy is.

      Come on.

    141. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:19 pm

      Drug underworld? All Arubans are part of some drug underworld and know who sells drugs to whom? If that’s the case all drug dealers would be in jail. Did some of the kids from Alabama bring X with them to Aruba? I’m not saying they did but X isn’t made in Aruba.

    142. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:20 pm

      Also, from the news yesterday, it does not look like Joran’s parents house has any immediate neighbors.

    143. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 12:21 pm

      i saw that to cas I was BLOWN away- what an airheeaded bimbo- theyre cant be a brain in her head to say thouse thinkgs- with all of the pain NH’s family is dealing with right now – i found that RIDICULOUS!

    144. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:23 pm

      CAS, agreed on the parents, but I think they are yuppie standard in parenting today. It is never the parents fault or the kids fault anymore, it is the teachers, the coahes, whoever, when did this change in parenting mentality come about, has it always been there, this is not how i grew up.

    145. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 12:23 pm

      i was offered x in aruba and coke- 2 months ago dude – there is DEFINATELY a drug world in aruba
      and im no hottie teenager- im a regular 34 year old

    146. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 12:25 pm

      was approached in my hotel lobby- my husband hnearly killed him

    147. Trisher on June 16th, 2005 12:25 pm

      I think you’re missing the point that it does not matter the parents – these kids are going to do what they are going to do. No matter if the kid is Valedictorian, Homecoming Queen, Drum Major or Drama Queen

    148. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 12:25 pm

      Crs,

      I wouldn’t think NH would of willing gone back to his place. Not when telling her friends she was headed back to the hotel. So I am just speculating that if she did end up there then there was some sort of made up excuse to just swing by for a “couple of minutes”. When I say premeditated I am really speaking of his intent to make his move and get her alone. I am sure he figured that as long as her friends were around he wouldn’t have a shot. So not premediated in the sense of hurting her. But who the hell knows.

      I think what is driving everyone crazy is you just don’t get any information on what is going on and what you do see makes it “appear” the police are bumbling idiots. And maybe they are!

    149. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:26 pm

      I am by no means an “X” expert but i don’t think there is anything that prevents the manufature of “X” in Aruba.

    150. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:26 pm

      Is this the only major investigation in recen thistory that has NO NEWS?!!!!!!!!!!

      WHERE IS THE NEWS?!!!

    151. CeeCee on June 16th, 2005 12:28 pm

      Yes to the fact that it is not the parents or the kids faults, no not at all! It isnt Natalees TWO roommates that couldnt be bothered to see that Natalee came back to the hotel room that fateful night. I should hope to never have a system that so broken down.
      Peace out, I see I am in a fitfully blaming mood

    152. jESSICA on June 16th, 2005 12:28 pm

      You can find X all over the island, its he same in Cancun, Domincan Replublic, venezuela

    153. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:29 pm

      Justin, I think it is pretty clear she trusted this kid and assuming she did want to have sex I don’t think she would have wanted to do this in the car with his friends there or even on the beach, I could see where he told her let’s go to my house and i will run you back to your hotel in a little while. Just a thought.

    154. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:30 pm

      I’ve cancelled my August trip to Aruba. We must send a message to these people.

      I WANT TO SEE ARUBA TURNED INTO HAITI PART 2, and that’s exactly what it would be were it not for American tourist money.

    155. Cas on June 16th, 2005 12:31 pm

      CRS,

      I totally agree that parents today want to be friends with their kids and for whatever reason have lost the ability to set guidelines or even acknowledge when their kids make mistakes.

      Which is why the parents of 3 party boys are trying to save their a** and don’t give a whit about Natalee…I’m sure they think whatever happened was her fault.

      But, I don’t think the Holloway’s fit that pattern, by all accounts Natalee was well brought up, serious and well on her way to a succesful life. That a 5 day vacation where she might have cut loose a little bit could end in this is beyond horrible.

    156. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:31 pm

      What is the time difference between here and Aruba, i think most of us are on the east coast, it seems like most days news starts filtering out of there about three or four most days.

    157. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:31 pm

      I seriously doubt that she wanted to have sex with this kid. By all accounts, she was not the slutty type.

    158. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:31 pm

      Billy – Good job. More people need to follow your lead right. Hopefully, that will put on the pressure.

    159. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:32 pm

      I think Aruba goes by EDT.

    160. Cas on June 16th, 2005 12:32 pm

      CeeCee

      Place blame where it belongs, on the people who hurt Natalee.

    161. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 12:32 pm

      Does anyone think that it was possible that when the cops intially showed up at Joran’s house to interrogate Joran and his father said he was out gambling, that he could have been in the attached apartment, and was given time by his father to call his friendsto further coordinate their story and get rid of any remaining evidence at his apartment. Maybe his dad went along with Natalee’s mom, and the cops on a wild goose chase? I don’t know just a thought. Also, i find it odd that when Joran called his father on his cell ohone to tell him that he was home; he was waiting there back with one of the brothers.

    162. redneck on June 16th, 2005 12:33 pm

      Billy what are you talking about. Aruba is way different to Haiti even if american stop going there,( i don’t think so) they still get tourists fron Canada,europe,south america

    163. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:33 pm

      CAS – I don’t think that i did but I certainly did not mean to suggest what we have talked about in the last few posts applied to NH and her family. My primary example is Joran in relation to parents being friends.

    164. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 12:33 pm

      One other thing, everyone is looking for someone to blame. That is ridiculous. 18 is legal drinking age in Aruba. The chaparones from what “everyone” has said, it was not their position to be a babysitter. These were all graduates and quite frankly most were headed off to school and on there way to be on their own. This same situation could of happened to her right here in the US at a college party.

      The wild parties that are being blamed on Aruba and underage drinking well all I can say is you better take a look around. Have you not seen all the shit that goes on in Daytona, Panama City, Lake Havasue City for spring break? It is every bit as out of control in those places and alot of it illegal.

      It is a sad, sad set of circumstances. I hope to hell they find her so her mother gets some kind of closure and more importantly I hope they can nail these pukes.

    165. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:35 pm

      We need to boycott the state of Florida for allowing the killing of three innocent children during the last two years by “registered” sex offenders.

    166. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 12:35 pm

      Redneck,

      60% of there toursts comes from the US amounting to billions of dollars

    167. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:35 pm

      Redneck–the vast majority of their tourism comes from Americans. Americans have the most money and are close.

      Aruba is only 500 miles from SLIME PIT islands like haiti and the Dominican Republic. It’s in the middle of nowhere. The only thing separating Aruba from Haiti is AMERICAN MONEY. Once that rug is pulled out from under them, that island will turn into an impoverished rat hole. Oranjestad will be Port au Prince.

    168. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:37 pm

      Billy – i am not suggesting NH to be slutty at all, however she is 18 with the hormones raging, obviously liked Joran and let’s face it, she was in an exotic location on the last night of the trip, i am merely suggesting a reason as to why she would go to Joran’s house. i am not slandering this girl in the least. i just do not think this all happened where the boys or the authorites are leading us.

    169. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 12:37 pm

      just a comment… I thnk you can be a friend and a parent to your kids. But most don’t know where to draw that line…Hence they become too much of a friend. But it can be done.

    170. redneck on June 16th, 2005 12:38 pm

      Billy maybe u r right

    171. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:38 pm

      Justin–WHO CARES what the legal drinking age in Aruba is? There are plenty of things that are LEGAL but nontheless reckless and unadvisable. Prostitution is legal in Amsterdam, but, if you took an American high school class there, and one of the 18-year-old girls said, “hey, I want to go turn some tricks,” should the chaperones let her?

    172. Cas on June 16th, 2005 12:38 pm

      Re: Father involved.

      Yes, to whoever the poster is, I thought it was very, very suspicious that they go to the house after midnight and the 17 year old ‘honor student’ is out at the casino and then they get to the casino, and well, hey, he’s back at home, with Deepak….what are the odds of this happening w/out some premeditation?

      Also, the fact that Natalee’s mom said Joran was arrogant and condescending, does that sound like an innocent person? Does that sound like someone who had a romantic evening with a beautiful girl and left her alive?

      Not by a long shot.

    173. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:38 pm

      We are suppose to be going to Roatan Island off of Honduras and this freaks me out to no end. I don’t want to step foot off of American dirt. The governments in other countries is too relaxed!

    174. Michele on June 16th, 2005 12:38 pm

      To TJW: I read your comments and I would totally agree about the amount of chaperones needed on a trip this size to another part of the whole. Chaperonning is a huge responsibility that needs to be taken seriously. I have an older teenager and and younger teenange –Keep this in mind I always do “I never want to have to say to myself I wish I done something differently at that time–when the time is actually happening say to yourself I am going to make the BEST decision now. Always try to keep yourself and your love ones out of “Harms Way” NH was in “Harm’s Way” and there was no one there to ask her that question!

    175. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 12:38 pm

      Justin T—well said. At the end of summer, many would disseminate out to out of state colleges without chaperones to commence their lives independently.

    176. Connie on June 16th, 2005 12:39 pm

      This whole thing is consuming my life. even at work I find myself listening to news on the radio hoping to hear something. When I’m not at work I find myself surfing the net or reading post here, or sitting in front of the tv watching fox news.

      For two whole weeks we haven’t heard one single thing that lets us know that they are even remotely close to solving this.

      I do have to disagree with people that are saying they are covering up their investigation. The US tourism there is a major part of the Island’s popularity. I don’t think they want to compromise that.

    177. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:39 pm

      Billy, less people are on welfare(percentage wise) in Aruba than in the U.S. …slime pit island??? They don’t have the welfare mentality that you have Billy

    178. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:41 pm

      Connie, I do agree with you to a certain extent. The only reason why I firmly believe they are “covering” up is because of the Dad(judge).

    179. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:41 pm

      Connie, question, in terms of coverup, which is better for Aruba a case that ends as a missing person/unsolved mystery or a heinous murder of a tourist?

    180. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 12:41 pm

      boycotting aruba isnt the solution- taking the $$ from the island isnt going to make it better it will make it worse, i think that this brings to lite that while being ONE of the safest islands there is still partying, drugs and crime so- START POLICING MORE! duh, it is just so ridiculous that they dont have professional cops raoming the boardwalk after last call, looking out for red light situations (ie one girl 3 men drunk in a car) i KNOW that it doesnt solve everything but it wont happen becasue aruba wont admit they ahve any crime it is just one happy island…. love that place but they need to get their eyes open to prevent these things from happening…sorry i will et off my soap box

    181. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:41 pm

      Mecha—Obviously, you’re not comprehending what I’m saying. Aruba EXISTS at the consent and largesse of the United States. AMERICAN MONEY is the ONLY reason that Aruba is different from Haiti. Once Americans stop going there, that place will be a ghetto.

    182. rob on June 16th, 2005 12:42 pm

      aqsdf , grow up and face the reality you are no safe anywhwere

    183. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:43 pm

      The dad is NOT a judge and second of all, the dad is NOT well liked by the Prime Minister of Aruba and the Chief of Police; prior to this incident

    184. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:44 pm

      Mecha – How do you know he is not well liked by them? Are you speculating or you have facts to back this up?

    185. Connie on June 16th, 2005 12:45 pm

      If they were covering up because of Joran’s father, don’t you think they would have allowed him to visit his son? I honestly don’t think the father had anything to do with it, other than the fact that Joran was allowed to do what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. How many parents do you know that would allow a 17 year old to have his own “apartment”? (sure it was above the garage, but still he could come and go as he pleased)

    186. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:45 pm

      Billy, the United States exists fro a large part due to international trade as well. If other countries boycotted the U.S. we would become a wasteland. We’re not surviving on our own???We export things as well. China has us by the bizalls at this point and they can really do a number on us.

    187. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:46 pm

      The fact is, the Dad has authority and power. 3rd world countries are known to stand by their people regardless of the crime. They do not like Americans trotting onto their territory even though it is their bread and butter.

    188. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:47 pm

      Connie, good point on wouldn’t they let him see him. Realize though, a good coverup has to have hints of justice being done, hence the searches and other certain aspects of investigation.

    189. Connie on June 16th, 2005 12:48 pm

      From what I’ve read he doesn’t have that much power. Says he’s only allowed to observe very few cases.

    190. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:50 pm

      My friends own a news paper down there, of which the publisher recently appeared on Hannity and Colmes(FOX).

      You all need to understand something. Aruba is a Dutch island but the Dutch have had a somewhat precarious relationship with the locals(mostly of latin origin) since a lot of locals feel that the Dutch have taken away jobs that belong to locals. Joran’s dad was NOT born on Aruba, neither was Joran. They’re quick to expell a Dutchman if they can find an “ARUBAN” to do the job, even he’s not qualified. Kind of like affirmative action.

    191. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:50 pm

      Mecha–WRONG. The United States is FAR closer to being self-sufficient than any other country in the world. My advice to Aruba is to avoid angering the US people before we turn Aruba into Haiti Part 2.

    192. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 12:50 pm

      Connie, i understand what you are saying, but I think they are covering it up to leave the case as a missing person(s). I think they haven’t let Joran’s father see him for our sake, the American media. I think everything that has gone on right now will result in a fruitless search. They are just trying to “look good” right now for the American public.

    193. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:51 pm

      Last night on Fox, Greta had a local take her to the lighthouse and the local said the father is very well off, certainly not one of the richest people in the world but very well off especially for the island.

    194. Connie on June 16th, 2005 12:53 pm

      I copied this from foxnews.com

      “Van Der Sloot’s father, Paul Van Der Sloot (search), filed a motion allowing him to see his son. Aruban authorities had denied visitation because of the father’s status. The father is a wealthy judge-in-training on the island, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases”

    195. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:54 pm

      Mecha, at best, what you say is hearsay, and quite honestly, it would not matter if they liked him or not, a henious rape and murder of a tourist = no more tourism and these people are not stupid, they know which side the bread is buttered on and an end result of this being a missing person’s case is Aruba’s ideal outcome.

    196. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:55 pm

      I want to see Kan Jewelers, Carlos n’ Charlie’s, Talk of the Town, and all of their other little shops BOARDED UP.

      Here’s a simple proposition: ARUBA minus AMERICAN DOLLARS == HAITI.

      We will not stand for this coverup.

    197. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:55 pm

      Ok…you win Billy…you’ve got the bomb and will judge the world by fire and hunger. All Arubans and an economy must suffer because of the actions of one or two. Yeah…you makes great sense. Unresolved power issues…check into it and seek help.

    198. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:55 pm

      Wealth = Power

    199. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 12:56 pm

      Mecha-Godzilla Says:

      June 16th, 2005 at 12:50 pm
      My friends own a news paper down there, of which the publisher recently appeared on Hannity and Colmes(FOX).

      You all need to understand something. Aruba is a Dutch island but the Dutch have had a somewhat precarious relationship with the locals(mostly of latin origin) since a lot of locals feel that the Dutch have taken away jobs that belong to locals. Joran’s dad was NOT born on Aruba, neither was Joran. They’re quick to expell a Dutchman if they can find an “ARUBAN” to do the job, even he’s not qualified. Kind of like affirmative action.

      never looked at it in that light, good point godzilla

    200. Connie on June 16th, 2005 12:56 pm

      I’m not trying to argue with anyone here. I’m only stating my opinion. Like I said before I honestly don’t believe there is anytype of cover up. They want to solve this so they can get back to their everyday lives. They are just not used to this much press, nor are they used to cases like this.

    201. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:56 pm

      crs – exactly. Unfortuneately, in politics………money makes the world go round. Look at some of the “celebrities” who have gotten off……………..

    202. larry chicken on June 16th, 2005 12:56 pm

      hey, has anyone given any thought to the possibility of an overdose on “x”. A case happened here (small town) a few years back in which a young girl (hyped very much by the local media as a girl who would never do such a thing) overdosed on the drug in the backseat of a car. The guys (high also) freaked and by the time they drove around tying to get her to come to she was dead. They were terrified that they would get into trouble for using the drug, giving the drug to the girl, etc. They did eventually take her to the hospital and that was about it for the story, but it could have definately gone the other way if they had dumped the body or the like. Anyway, It seems very sterile to me that an attemp has been made (and is ongoing) to make the suspects look guilty and remove the actions of Natalee from the picture. NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING THAT I THINK SHE IS RESPONSIBLE IF FOUL PLAY IS INVOLVED. I’m not going to play that game, ie “she shouldn’t have gotten in the car”, “she was asking for it”, etc. My statement is simply that we should look honestly at the situation. I feel that we will never know what happened to Natalee for several reasons 1) the kids on the trip will never paint an honest picture of what happened or what they know of Natalee for two reasons (a) don’t want Natalee to be remembered for anything less than a saint and that is understandable. It is parallel to saying bad things about a person at their funeral. It doesn’t happen-at least not from a friend and (b) people are naturally inclined to cover their butts. A very sad reality is that (on the average) a high school student will supress information that might get them into trouble with their parents reguardless of whether or not it might solve a mystery, shed a different light on suspects, or whatever. I have seen that on numerous occasions. 2) the persons close to Natalee (parents) want to know what happened to Natalee reguardless of what that might mean. BUT!!!!!!! If what happened to her in any way sheds a less than glowing light on their daughter. They will supress information and work just as hard to make this situation go away as they have painted of the Aruban officals. They want to know but they don’t want the public to know unless it makes her (Natalee)look positive. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. Watch the interviews with the mother and classmates. These people would never entertain the idea that Natalee would act anything less than responsible in all situations. For those reasons I truly feel that the public will never know what happend in Aruba.

    203. Billy on June 16th, 2005 12:57 pm

      Mecha— What? This is not because of “one” or “two” people.

      I’m not blaming Aruba for what happened to Natalee. I’m blaming Aruba FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE SINCE IT HAPPENED.

      I’m blaming them for their incompetence

    204. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 12:58 pm

      Kan jewelers…what do you have against Jewish people Mr Billy Mengele?

    205. rob on June 16th, 2005 12:58 pm

      billy so are so arrogant .guys like you give bad name to most of americans.

    206. crs on June 16th, 2005 12:58 pm

      Connie – I respect your opinion, I am just trying to discuss and see more why you feel that and that same time articulate why there would be reason for a coverup.

    207. asdf on June 16th, 2005 12:59 pm

      Billy, agreed 100% with “what they haven’t done since it happened”. Who knows though, they may have done things they are not publicisizing.

    208. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 12:59 pm

      billy c’mon aruba minus our $$ would not be Haiti, it would just downsize, the people there are hardworking and intelligent and professional- money isnt the only difference – c’mon… aruba just grew too fast thats all-

    209. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 1:00 pm

      Billy is suffering from erectile dysfunction…leave him alone..he’s angry

    210. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:02 pm

      MARIE—-And you don’t think that people in Haiti are hardworking and intelligent? That doesn’t matter. You can be the smartest and hardest-working person in the world, BUT IF THERE IS NO ONE TO BUY YOUR LABOR, you will be poor. It’s all about markets. If there is NO MARKET for what you produce, you will starve, regardless of how smart or dedicated you are. The Aruban market is The United States. Without us, that island becomes a ghost town.

    211. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:02 pm

      The reason I feel this is because of everything that I’ve been reading over the past couple weeks. It’s been stated in several atricles that the crime rate in Aruba is very low. In the past two years they have only had two murders, an a handfull of rapes. There for they don’t have the knowledge or the means of investigating a case of this calibur. Many mistakes have been made. If there is coverup happening, they are only covering up for mistakes they have made in the investigation, not because of someone we “assume” is a powerful attorney.

    212. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:03 pm

      This case is not about the average aruban, i am certain that they are great people just like I still think most americans are good people. The issue is with Aruban authorities. I respect both view points, the view that by not spending our money in Aruba we can force their hand and I also respect the people that say by doing so we hurt the average aruban who is just a good person, working hard, for himself and his family.

    213. rob on June 16th, 2005 1:03 pm

      once again billy .go back to work and stop talking nonsense

    214. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:04 pm

      larry- i have been thingking similar thoughts… something may have happened that is more difficult to get to becasue “people dont want to get in trouble” sad but very possible

    215. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:05 pm

      Connie, interesting, I had not necessarily thought of it as covering up their mistakes to prevent embarrasment. Maybe so.

    216. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:06 pm

      billy- i respect your opinion but in effort to make your point you are making no sence- aruba isnt repressed- without money they will not be haiti what type of socio-economic degree did you receive?

    217. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:08 pm

      crs. As I said this is only my opinion. I’m not saying that they aren’t covering up for anyone. I’m just stating what I feel. Everyone has opinions, unfortunately opinions won’t solve this any faster. I vote we all go down to aruba and conduct our own investigation. From what I’ve been reading here, we may be able to make some headway. ;)

    218. Angela on June 16th, 2005 1:08 pm

      Connie: I do think that the arubans dont know how to deal with something this major as well. I also believe that if they dont have the knowledge, they should get some Americans to help out. We as Americans have crimes so awful and our people know how to deal with it. I’ve heard that the Aruban Gov doesn’t want anyone to help due to the fact that may portrey they dont know anything. This is over a girls life/family. They should have enough balls to ask for help. Maybe they’ll learn something. I’m not against Arubans at all but they just need help b/c this type of case if really new.

    219. Cas on June 16th, 2005 1:09 pm

      LARRY,

      The diference in your story is that the boys involved took her to a hospital, they didn’t friggin bury her body in the desert and lie to everyone for 3 weeks.

      So, I don’t see a comparrision.

      None of these 3 have even admitted that they know she is dead, let alone say it was an accident and they panicked.

      Why is that? Because it wasn’t a simple OD or accident. I am sure they didn’t intend for her to die, but if you accidentally kill someone while you are trying to assault them, then you are a murderer.

    220. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:09 pm

      I have to say that nothing NOTHING could be apprearing to be so slow and stupid- they absolutely have to be silently getting somplace- it just isnt the way our system works so diofficult for us to understand becasue we are the KING of leaks to the press… i just cant believe that we arent almost there… nobody can be this stupid, right? We have to be getting somewhere- i think mrs holloway knows this to otherwise more would be being said…

    221. AnnapolisArubaFan on June 16th, 2005 1:12 pm

      Larry Chicken, Your comments are right on time.
      One caveat: no matter how poorly some details might reflect on victim, if it turns out she was brutally murdered, with no mitigating circumstances, then all bets will be off: Aruba (and US and press everywhere) will look to crush perpetrator(s), in a spectacle, and info on victim (including any poor judgment or inproper activity) will be publicized, no matter how much her family tries to prevent it. Ironic, huh.

    222. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:13 pm

      CAS – All excellent points in regards to Larry’s comments. I have three questions for everyone: Do they ever find NH? Is this case ever solved? Do these boys end up going to jail?

    223. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:14 pm

      Angela, that is exactly what I have been saying. They need to allow the FBI to conduct this investigation. They deal with this stuff on a daily basis.

      As far as boycotting aruba goes. You can’t really blame an entire country for the stupidity of three young boys. I myself would go there in a heart beat if I had the means.

      We live in a world where bad things happen everyday. You can’t turn on the news without hearing about someone being murdered or kidnapped. If we start barracading ourselfs in our homes will that solve the crime rate in our country? NO

    224. Sassy on June 16th, 2005 1:16 pm

      How many days after she went missing did they arrest these three boys?

    225. susanfromMichigan on June 16th, 2005 1:16 pm

      put it this way…. if you had an 18 year old daughter, would you let her go to Aruba?
      NOT!
      And believe me, a parent can say no. I hope this enlightens parents about what goes on there on trips made by groups of 18 year olds.

    226. ALLYinmiami on June 16th, 2005 1:17 pm

      Connie, u had an excellent point; i never even thought about them covering up for their mistakes.. Very good point.

    227. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:17 pm

      I agree with Connie, this seems to be an aberration for Aruba and not the rule in terms of serious crime. I would have trouble going there though or with my family knowing that this is how things like this are handled.

    228. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:17 pm

      crs. It saddens me to say that I highly doubt they will ever find Natalie. The island is small surley by now they would have found something. The island is surrounded by shark infested oceans. I do however believe with my hole heart that this case will be solved, and that the boys will get exactly the punishment they diserve.

    229. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:19 pm

      Sassy – Boys were brought in for questioning the day after she went missing, released, and then arrested nine days later.

    230. Carlito on June 16th, 2005 1:20 pm

      next time i go to aruba… that van der sloot kid is on my hitlist..inclding the two surinamies

      for free!

    231. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:21 pm

      I do not think this body was originally dumped in the ocean, maybe if daddy got involved, it was eventually dumped at sea, but I think the body is on that island somewhere.

    232. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:21 pm

      The next time you go to aruba the boys will be in prison, so I dont think your services will be needed.

    233. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:22 pm

      crs I surely hope she is still on the island. It will be better closure for Nat’s mom.

    234. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:22 pm

      susan i guess you didnt see cnn last night? a “lovely” drunk homecoming queen talking about drinking sex on the beach making you WANT to have sex on the beach- she was an IDDIOT saying what her parents dont know cant hurt them…belive me she would have NO CLUE if she got into the wrong car… parents are still letting kids go- and if they dont start policing the area better this stuff will keep happening! That little teen HORRIFIED me on the news… how she could have such disrespect for what was going on outside “her little world” good god

    235. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:23 pm

      Anyone out there think the brothers are the one’s behind this and Joran is totally innocent, if so, give me your theory.

    236. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:24 pm

      I’ve thought that from day one. Nat is a beautiful young lady. Who’s to say they weren’t jeolous because she was hanging more with Joran than them?

    237. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:24 pm

      nope- i think the brothers were the drug dealers and the dutchboy had an “accident”

    238. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:25 pm

      if it were the brothres dutch boy would be singing like a canary already!

    239. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:25 pm

      The homecoming queen was defiantely a piece of work, let me ask this, if you saw the video you saw last night only of Natalee would you feel as bad as you do about what has apparantly happened.

    240. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:26 pm

      If the aruban officials would tell us something I woudl be able to deside for sure who I think is the guilty person or persons in this. But since they aren’t telling us anything it’s really hard to make a dissision

    241. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:27 pm

      yes, i would feel just as bad… but that chick KNOWS what is going on there right now- we know that this isnt crime free happy islandville now…ya know?

    242. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:27 pm

      Connie, tell me how you think it played out from the time they left the bar and we all know for a fact they were all in the car, that is undisputed.

    243. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:27 pm

      The Aruban government should IMMEDIATELY turn the entirety of the investigation over to the American FBI. Enough is enough. This is a circus.

    244. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:28 pm

      when NH was there it was “the safe happy island ” that we have all been thinking for years- SURELY this is why parents allow it as opposed to canccun or lauderdale..

    245. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:28 pm

      I have to be honest, I don’t think I would feel quite so bad.

    246. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:29 pm

      the stupid prom queen on the news was just a dumb bimbo

    247. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:30 pm

      Yes I would still feel as bad. She was a bit arrogant in the video, as well as dopey, BUT she was still in controll of her actions to some point. She was clearly intoxicated, but she was fully aware of her actions. I haven’t seen any vidoe footage of Nat, and we only have to go on what her friends say.

    248. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:31 pm

      If you’re a woman, you have to just CRINGE when you see young girls acting like that homecoming queen. That kind of behavior CONTRIBUTES HEAVILY to the sexual objectification of girls. Men–even decent men–see that kind of behavior and think, perhaps justifiably, that the girl is just a sex object.

    249. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:32 pm

      the fact that she sputtered on like that knowing what had happened to a girl a few weeks before- ignorant i hardly think nat would have been chatting like that if this had happened a few weeks before, she sounds too intelligent…she may have made a bad judgement but it wasnt BLATANT like the chickie last night0 I feel that it is a BIG difference

    250. Brianna on June 16th, 2005 1:32 pm

      what is this video everyone’s talking about and is it viewable on the internet?

    251. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:34 pm

      a sex object (if willing) IS MUCH DIFFERENT THANK BEING DRUGGED OR RAPED!
      just becasue she was a bimbo on tv didnt mean she should be drugged or worse but she isnt defending herself too well from those typed of people with out saying a word… i am sure that her folks are MORTIFIED!

    252. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:35 pm

      if NH’s mom saw that coverage i hope she tracked her down and SMACKED her across the face, eh?

    253. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:36 pm

      I think that when Nat was leaving the bar ( and I do believe she left the bar with the notion of going back to the hotel and getting ready for departure) the three young men approached her and asked if she had a chance to visit someplace on the island (I’m honestly leaning toward a place they call the tunnel of love) She was seen with Joran on three seperate occasions, so she obviously “knew” him. Being young and her last night on the island she decided to go with. I do believe that roofies were used, The boys took turns and had their way with her. by them saying that something bad happened to her, I think she did od and the boys decided to ditch her body.

    254. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:36 pm

      I am not saying if you saw this video of NH. I am saying if the homecoming queen had disappeared and this video came out, i do not think people would feel near as bad, i think the appeal of NH is she was by all accounts a good kid, the girl next door. If this had happened to the bimbo we all saw last night, I don’t think there is near the outcry. i think that girl’s parents probably would not have even shown up for three weeks.

    255. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:37 pm

      Marie—I wouldn’t be so sure that her parents (if she has parents) would be that upset. Why? Because girls who come from GOOD PARENTS rarely act like that.

    256. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 1:37 pm

      The Sloot and the brothers ain’t going anywhere just yet ….. they have admitted to fabricating the original story did they not? That alone qualifies them for making a false statement to authorities in a criminal investigation, and since the stipulation is that they were seen by witnesses together with Natalee when she was last seen …. I’d say they don’t don’t a prayer in hell ….. constant interrogations of all three, separately will eventually lead to the truth …. these boys think they’re bad …. we’ll see how bad they are.

      One question: Why have the brothers’ residence(s) not been searched? How elementary is that?

    257. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:37 pm

      i hope it isnt on the internet- if the american teen that was videod is only 14 it invades her rights…I wonder if the 14 yr old was drugged or if she know that she was being video taped? weird world these days…shame

    258. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:38 pm

      Brianna – There was a video last night shown on CNN not related oto NH of a homecoming queen partying in Aruba and acting like an idiot even after what happened to NH and that is what we are talking about.

    259. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:39 pm

      CRS—You’re entirely right. the fact of the matter is that America does not care about sluts. If something happened to that prom queen, no one would have cared. But Natalee Holloway is reputed to be an upstanding young woman, and that is why the country cares.

    260. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:40 pm

      Billy you can not say that no one would care. People would care even with the video we saw last night. The fact that someone child is missing or feared dead sends shock to people everywhere.

    261. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:41 pm

      Got to allow the brothers folks time to clean up too – they’ll get over there next week.

    262. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:41 pm

      yeah- well i get it now… i can say that i woudlnt feel AS BAD- still would be disturbing, violence always is, but that little tart has NO CLUE what she is asking for acting like that, it made me sick and MORE sick becasue she is so clueless and egotistical that she acted that way with all of this going on…
      piece of work, huh?

    263. asdf on June 16th, 2005 1:41 pm

      crs – bwwahahahahahaha, reminds me of the Hacking case.

    264. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:44 pm

      Connie – could be on the od. I still don’t think this was totally calculated. I think he thought he could hook up with her and maybe became angry if she refused his advances. I don’t know the brothers did anything beyond help cover up.

    265. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:44 pm

      If you’re going to go around, acting like a slut, something bad is going to happen to you at some point. But I just don’t think that such was the case with Natalee. I find it very hard to believe that this girl was going off to screw these guys.

    266. Brianna on June 16th, 2005 1:45 pm

      I think thats the worst thing – that is a 14 year old CHILD acting like that. I got my last baby doll when I was 12. Times they are a changin’. Take that Nicole Kidman movie “Birth” for instance: suggest sex scene in a bathtub between her and a 10 year old boy. Then the Kevin Bacon movie where he played a pedophile….sad state of affairs we are in.

    267. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:45 pm

      connie you are misunderstanding- scroll back and read everything- we are saying that if something had happened to this girl we wouldnt feel AS bad0 that certainly doesnt make anything right but- my gosh if you had only see her – it was shameful … chatting about drinking toomany sex on the beaches, made her feel like havin sex on the beach” it was just insulting to everyone./

    268. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:46 pm

      Does anyone know if there are pics on the net of the two brothers after being arrested.
      I’d like to see their facial reactions. I’ve seen Joran’s but not theirs

    269. Brianna on June 16th, 2005 1:47 pm

      where is Joran’s? All I saw was a towel…if that was him…

    270. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:48 pm

      Marie, my comment was to Billy he said that Nobody would care.

    271. Mika on June 16th, 2005 1:48 pm

      Anyone from Aruba listening, did they find anything on the remote part of the island they were searching for this AM?

    272. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:48 pm

      This is the only news story that has NO NEWS.

    273. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:49 pm

      Brianna – Go to cnn.com, scroll down to the Aruba story and there is picture of him coming out of court.

    274. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:49 pm
    275. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:49 pm

      brianna- different cases- sorry i was typing too fast- 1) The girl on CNN last night was 18 she was a homecoming queen- bimbo)
      2) the 14 year old is the supposed sex tape that one of the brothers made with an american tourist that they have been supposedly selling….people were asking if that was published and I was saying that i hoped not becasue the girl was only 14…
      two separate situations :) I am not the best typer either!

    276. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:49 pm

      Usually news seems to start to filter out about 4 or so most days.

    277. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 1:51 pm

      I’d like to get my handa on the SLoot and the brothers …. I’d make ‘em wish they had never been born

    278. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:52 pm

      i see connie- thought it was becasue I said i wouldnt feel ‘AS BAD” if htis had happened to that girl, i was just being honest, nobody deserves anything bad i just wouldnt have felt AS bad for the promqueen bimbo…

    279. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:52 pm

      An eye for an eye, Tit for Tat, What does violence for violence beget?

    280. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:52 pm

      If this tape/dvd does exist, look out, I think that will really turn some heads and I wonder what the 14 year would have to say.

    281. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 1:53 pm

      What does Aruban justice beget?

    282. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:53 pm

      I don’t agree with an eye for an eye necessarily but i do hope at some point these boys, if guilty, and it seems so, suffer the same fate as natalee.

    283. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:53 pm

      who knows if she even knows – she (14yr) could have been slipped a ruffie and not even known about a vidoe) people just suck

    284. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:54 pm

      yikes i need to get back to work- take care all and i hope that something cracks soon!

    285. Cas on June 16th, 2005 1:54 pm

      Marie from Maine,

      Shame on you. Getting drunk and being stupid doesn’t make her less a victim of someone else’s evil intentions.

      Kids talk smack about sex all the time, saying it made her feel like having sex on the beach is stupid, immature, kind of trashy, but come on.

      Shouldn’t we feel equally sad and sorry that any girl, no matter who she is or what she did or how much she had to drink would be raped and murdered and have her body thrown away like a piece of trash?

      Yeesh.

    286. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:54 pm

      Villain, the answer to your question is NOTHING.

    287. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 1:55 pm

      Thank you Connie …. that was precisely my point

    288. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:55 pm

      Marie, That’s what I’m thinking and you know the media will try and find this girl, I wonder if the Arubs are looking into that, we’ll, probably, get to looking into that in a couple months to keep up the appearance of a search.

    289. Traveler on June 16th, 2005 1:56 pm

      This my 1st post.

      I have followed scaredmonkeys, reihlworld, the big media ect. since Natalee’s disappearence. This is also the 1st time I have visited blogs, which I find very interesting although there are some really stupid posting that you must wade through.

      Here are some thoughts:

      - Islands are definately more liberal and lax compared to the US.
      - Island people are close-nit. It’s a finite, small world there & EVERONE knows EVERYTHING.
      - The Netherlands is very socially-liberal in their thinking and have an open society. I admire their social thinking. It’s unfortunate that the muslims have abused this and are now distroying their country.
      - Aruba is the Dutch’s paradise. Although Aruba is not governed by the Dutch and have a much stricter drug policy, there are many Dutch on Aruba and that combined with typical island culture, I’m sure that drug use is island-typical and fairly accepted there.

      -Mr. & Mrs. Van Der Sloot are probably very fine people. He a journeyman-judge (probably like a magistrate in the US) and her a teacher. Their sons are nice looking and have an upper middleclass background, smart and well like by their friends. These are well respected people in their community. They do not look like island bums to me. And, if Mr. Van Der Sloot is a practicing judge, he is constantly considering “what is the right thing to do” in his decisions.
      -Joran is coming of age and hanging at the tourist bars. This is not accepted in the US but probably is in a tourist island setting.
      -Natalee is smart, blnd/blnd, petite, beautiful, quiet, popular, and a peer group leader.
      -Joran is smart, clean, good looking and fun to be around and looked to be a peer group leader
      -The two met and clicked.
      -They were probably really both smitten with each other. Probably couldn’t think (or talk) about anything but each other for a couple of days.
      -They both probably looked forward to seeing each other that last night and had a fun time at the bar.
      -Natalee would definately truct & go with Jorun to the beach for a last goodbye. Probably wanted some petting but not full sex.
      -Joran’s goal was probably to have sex with her. It’s the goal of all 18 year old guys.
      -Probably both looked at this as a beginning romance…not a one night stand.

      I believe that what ever happened was an accident. I agree with Larry’s posting above. Kids don’t used roofies….they use X. X is know as a sex enhancer drug. And, it is very plausable that either Joran are somebody put X in her drink prior to leaving the bar. They have probably done X so they look at it as devious as we would. It’s part of their (young adults) culture.

      For Natalee it was probably a first. Given the drinking and X, she would have been a good candidate for an overdose reaction.

      But, I doubt that whatever happened was with any intent to harm Natalee. They were both smitten. Their friends would know this.

      Whatever happend after the event is anyone’s guess.

    290. Connie on June 16th, 2005 1:57 pm

      But my point is, what would going down there and “making them wish they were never born” solve? Your need for a testosterone rush? Let the government (though incompetiant as they are) do their thing.

    291. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:57 pm

      Violence for violence often begets peace.

    292. susanfromMichigan on June 16th, 2005 1:58 pm

      it’s like this. The morality of kids that age (sorry to generalize) hasn’t truly been strengthend yet. They’re out on their own in an environment like that with no guidance. Partying is ‘cool’ at that age. So they go and party and Mom and Dad don’t know. Have you ever watch MTV ‘Springbreak’? What an eye opener. My sons tell me it isn’t the same world I grew up in.

      We may never know what happened to Natalie, but this should be a warning to parents to keep an eye on their kids and give them some guidance.

    293. crs on June 16th, 2005 1:58 pm

      CAS, I don’t think Marie meant anything, the jist was we don’t think people would feel as bad if they saw that video and that girl was the one who went missing, that is not to say we wish this upon anyone or would still not feel bad. It seems people relate more to NH because she comes across as very girl next door and very likeable.

    294. Billy on June 16th, 2005 1:59 pm

      Connie–why should we let incompetent people continue being incompetent?

    295. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 1:59 pm

      um cas, you cant just hop in and start barking at people! I never said that anyone deserved ANYTHING, he asked me a candid questiona & i answered, If i should have lied that is fine …. but i was simply saying it still would ahve been sad but not as sad- becasue this girl was PUTTING HERSELF out for a bad situation, all the while knowing that natalees mother and people are worried to deathe over a terrible thing that had happened and she is disrespectfully being an airhead talking about wanting to have sec on CNN!!!! Nobody deserves to be a victem but you feel sorrier for some than others- PUH-leese! DOnt judge me or tell me what to say, you ahve NO CLUE who i am…

    296. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 2:01 pm

      They act like bad-asses with an 18-year old girl who probably would not have hurt a fly

    297. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:01 pm

      If Americans stop going to Aruba, that island will become a ghetto. They had better get this case solved fast.

    298. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:02 pm

      WOOOOOOOOOO, tourist, i think we are taking a big leap on this mom and dad being good people, at the very least they are poor parents who set a poor example for Joran. i have no confidence this was just an accident, if it had been, there would have been no need for a coverup.

    299. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:02 pm

      It’s pretty obvious to me that the officials there aren’t going to let the FBI take over the investigation any time soon. Incompitant as they are we have to deal with it.

    300. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:04 pm

      Billy Says:

      June 16th, 2005 at 1:57 pm
      Violence for violence often begets peace.

      Tell this to the families of all the men and women that have given their lives in war.

    301. Mike on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      A few questions;

      Anyone see the mother’s interview on Fox?

      1-Where were Natalee’s roommates all-night? Why didn’t they report her missing until they were loading the bus? Maybe we should arrest them until they talk and why wouldn’t the mother comment on that? Also, seems suspicious her bags were already packed.

      2-Chaperone’s allegedley flew a private jet to/from Aruba? What is going on? Why didn’t they check each of these girls in the morning?

      3-Why wouldn’t the mother comment on the chaperones or their behavior in this whole thing? Why aren’t they down their searching with the mother?

    302. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      Connie – I get my testosterone rush from making whoopie with my honey …. gently!!

    303. Mark 2 on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      I am in line with villian_buster. They may never have enough to get these guys for murder, but making false statements to authorities, obstructing of justice from refusing to cooperate during an investigation of a felony, etc. will get them at least some time behind bars. Concerning the question regarding whether or not they ever find the body and solve the case, I predict they will find the remains, but it will be skeletal and not much help in solving the case. And, as mentioned above, I think the boys will serve some time, although I am pessimistic they will rot in prison from a murder charge. I hope however, assuming Natalee is indeed dead, that I am wrong and this case suddenly cracks wide open.

      It actually shouldn’t have been too hard once the stories began to differ. Give each a polygraph and determine which one is lieing then work on the others to build the case against the liar. They have a right to refuse a polygraph, but that just gives it away that they are guilty anyway. Surely, this is being done but just being kept from the press.

    304. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      Cas—No. The fact of the matter is that America does not care about sluts. It never has. As late as the 1980s, many police departments didn’t even bother investigating the murders of prostitutes.

      The Puritanical backbone of this country is firmly in place, and America does not expend energy on whores. America cares about middle class and upper middle class white people who behave in a way that comports with traditional American values. That’s why it cares about Natalee Holloway. Now you can debate whether that is morally appropriate, but it’s true regardless.

    305. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      Thoughts on tourists post?

    306. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      but it isnt our country to be barging in and doing things the american way with out their permission…. we can only hope that they actually might know what they are doing and letting us all think that they have nothing and are baffoons may be what they need so that they can solve the case WE HOPE! People my gosh we have local/ federal wars with our own country on “whos crime” this is…

    307. Island Hopper on June 16th, 2005 2:05 pm

      Calling whatever happened to natalee an accident will help the crime stats in Arubs right? Pretend it is not a murder, call it an accident. Close the case as an accident and it looks great in the crime stats and the nice little Dutch boy gets off. How swett???

    308. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 2:06 pm

      Honestly I have a little put off by the fact that they put that video on of the Homecoming Queen. The timing of that I think is really shitting and not helpful to Natalee’s case. In my opinion it was someone trying to make a point that these kids go down there get drunk and do stupid things. Almost an incinuation… Maybe after NH is found or this case is resloved more light should be put on these issues. Shitty timing

    309. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:07 pm

      Connie—I have, and they agree.

      What would you have done with Hitler? Try to reason with him? People like you got killed en masse during World War 2.

    310. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:07 pm

      The news coverage on this story sucks. There are so many other stories that shouldn’t even be of concern at the moment.

    311. pktbk on June 16th, 2005 2:08 pm

      Billy…..so now she’s a slut? yet he’s the one making videos and roughing up any girl he can lure off by himself?

    312. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 2:08 pm

      Billy- we need to boycott the U.S. for not finding Bin Laden …after four years. Billions of dollars spent, countless lives lost, etc……..I mean , let’s use our head here or do you want to stick to your emotions after all?

    313. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:08 pm

      Mike, this was no one’s fault but the boys, blameing NH’s parents, friends or chapperones is stupid. her bags were packed as were probably most of her friends because they knew they would be out most of the night partying, I do not see that as strange at all.

    314. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 2:08 pm

      i think it is possible her friends are scared to get in trouble, and POSSIBLE way that nat went off to get something for everyone w/ the boys? like a joint to be able to get to sleep? poor kids i hope that they dont have something they feel that they have to hide aI am SURRE the guilt is hard enough already- agh I really REALLY need to work!

    315. Mika on June 16th, 2005 2:09 pm

      I am amazed at this family. No one should have to be put through this. I think they will find something in Joran’s computer to nab him. What I want to know is where did they put her? This island is miniscule. Is it possible that they know where she is, but just haven’t told us? From the beginning this investigation has gone in a direction that none of us thought. Anyone from Aruba, do they immediately report things in the press when they happen or is there a lag before the public officially knows about something? Here in the US, if they had the body we would all know about it. Is the media there able to get access to information quickly?

    316. Island Hopper on June 16th, 2005 2:09 pm

      Too bad Joran did not wait until he came to the state to commit his crimes. He would be awaiting trial by now.

    317. Justin T on June 16th, 2005 2:10 pm

      Mike,

      Most people pact there bags the night before they leave. Everything excpet what they need to get ready that morning. It’s a timing issue not a suspecious plot. Her roomate fell asleep and reported it first thing in the morning. There were two groups one went on a private plane and some of the chaparones went on teh commercial flight. SO ALL the kids had some on their plane with them. WHy the hell should her mother talk about it. That will resolve nothing in regard to finding Natalee.

    318. marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 2:11 pm

      pktbk – The slut referral is to the BIMBO teenager on Cnn last night not Natalee- again guys dont just hop in and ASSUME that you now what someone is talking about scroll back and catch up first!

    319. pktbk on June 16th, 2005 2:11 pm

      it’s a case of small town power plays. it’s sad that the officials are afraid of this one boy’s family.

    320. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 2:12 pm

      Billy, starving Arubans by boycotting them, turning it into a wasteland……your comments sound very Saddam Hussein-ish, very Middle-Eastern Abu Nidal-ish…..hhhmmmm

    321. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:12 pm

      Mecha—-You really take the cake for absurd comments. The reason that Bin Laden hasn’t been found is that the rest of the world is not committed to finding him. Moreover, comparing the search for one man who could be ANYWHERE over a several thousand-mile radius on the other side of the globe to the search for killers on a TINY island is absurd. Bin Laden is not in the United States, whereas killers of Natalee Holloway ARE on one TINY island.

    322. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:12 pm

      It’s not like they have to comb across 5000 miles of land. It shouldn’t be that DIFFICULT! Have they gotten the clue that MAYBE JUST FRGGIN’ MAYBE they need to search on other islands?????????????????

    323. Mike on June 16th, 2005 2:13 pm

      They should get in trouble, every one of them. If as the mother said, they all hung out as a “group” then why didn’t someone jump in the car with Natalee when they left the bar?

      The whole thing makes no sense. Having done a very similar trip, I would have never let a girl who would have been a good friend leave a bar with three locals. Also, her supposed girlfriends weren’t much of friends either to let her go with them and not report her missing until they were putting their bags on the bus.

      If I was the mother I would file suit against the school, parents and kids. What a joke they are by calling them supportive of her and Natalee.

    324. Cas on June 16th, 2005 2:13 pm

      Billy Says,

      I agree with you. It is sad but true, look at all the blame that has been placed on the poor girl for just getting in a car with Joran who she had been socializing wtih all week?

      I guarantee you if Natalee had a bunch of web sites similar to Joran’s she would not still be in the news.

      I think its one of the sickest parts of our country, that we let little girls turn themselves into sex objects, sex and porn are everywhere, everybody is supposed to be getting laid and having great sex but god forbid, something bad happens to a woman, she had better be pure as the driven snow, or no one will feel sorry for her.

    325. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:13 pm

      Three Aruban boys vs. Hitler. Big difference there Billy, don’t you think?

    326. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:14 pm

      I just read an article from a tourism site that quotes several sources within the Aruban tourism industry. They said that business is off DRASTICALLY.

    327. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:15 pm

      ASDF – There is a lot of rugged terrain though, a lot of beach, a lot of ocean, a lot of caves, I can honestly see why they have not found the body.

    328. just stopping by on June 16th, 2005 2:15 pm

      To the poster that says teenagers don’t use ruffies you are way off. In both high school and college I knew of people (both from the straight crowd and the wild crowd) that (1) willingly took ruffies; (2) willingly took GHB. Not to say NH did, but the drugs are cheap and readily available both in this country and abroad. I know probably 50 people who have had GHB put into their drinks at clubs and bars- and unfortanately I can say that I know of three people who have died from overdosing on these drugs.

      Also- no one seems to even suggest the fact that she could have died of alcohol poisioning. She was a petite 18 year old. If the kids were out drinking and partying the way it has been portrayed it probably was more alcohol than any high school keg party they had ever been to. Its all speculation …

    329. pktbk on June 16th, 2005 2:15 pm

      crs…not to mention the area where they feed sharks.

    330. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:15 pm

      If violence for violence begot peace then there would be no more war.

    331. Mike on June 16th, 2005 2:15 pm

      A timing issue???? They left the bar at 1:30 and got on the bus at 9:30???? Nice friends by not checking up on her. I need more friends like that (NOT!) They deserve to rot, too bad they are just as guilty are Joran and his friends in her probable death.

    332. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:17 pm

      Mike, I don’t know if you are just trying to be outrageous but please.

    333. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:17 pm

      Connie—First of all, not two minutes ago, you referred to people who have died for the country, so you were OBVIOUSLY extrapolating your “violence is not the solution” theory to situations WELL BEYOND this situation in Aruba.

    334. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:17 pm

      Right but they should still be looking in other areas as well, not just Aruba.

    335. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:18 pm

      Connie—-So, again, I ask you: WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE WITH HITLER?

      WOULD YOU HAVE GONE TO WAR OR NOT?

    336. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 2:18 pm

      Billy..Billy……four years…FOUR years!!!! Billions of dollars, sattelites, drones, paid warlords. Come on!! I sense an early onset of dementia due to the inability to conduct linear thinking and problem solving.

    337. Mika on June 16th, 2005 2:18 pm

      They had how many people searching for her last week??? Someone would have noticed something by now don’t you think? And, if every crevice hasn’t been checked, then shame on the government. This is not a big island. This investigation is being played out for the world to see at this point. This is not business as usual. They have to re-search everywhere. And, if they don’t, well, if I were her family, I would be on foot doing it myself.

    338. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:19 pm

      Look at what happened to Elizabeth Smart………

      NH may not be dead. They NEED to look in OTHER PLACES TOO.

    339. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:19 pm

      I’m sorry, I will be the first to admit that I am a very opinionated person, but why have we stated attacking eachother? I’m sorry. I just realized what I was doing and it hit me. We all come here for one reason. To discuss what’s going on the Nat.

    340. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:21 pm

      mECHA–You’re an idiot. Bin Laden is NOT IN THE UNITED STATES. Accordingly, finding him presents a much more difficult problem than finding 3 killers on a TINY ISLAND. The United State does not have carte blanche to rummage through Syria and Pakistan, whereas the Arubans DO have carte blanche to tear that TINY island apart.

    341. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:21 pm

      I don’t know I think the focus of the search does need to be in Aruba, let’s be honest, we’re having enough trouble trying to find her there without watering down the resources.

    342. cancon on June 16th, 2005 2:21 pm

      just a point, good point about did the father purposely mislead the cops when they first arrived so Joran could clean up his apartment on the other hand it is not strange at all that Joran would call his father on his cell phone if he was actually out and just came home

      can you imagine you come home and your mother would be freaking on you, the police was here, your father went out with the police looking for you, you better call him right now and let him know you are home……..

      I remember vividly when the cops showed up at our door, my sister was involved in a hit and run, she fled, she was 16 and foolish, of course in those days we didn’t have cell phones, however did we survive and she was afraid to come home, she finally did…….

    343. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 2:21 pm

      Connie, you’re right. We all need to get along. Lets all go to Aruba, everyone on this board, and we’ll create a Survivor type reality show.

    344. pktbk on June 16th, 2005 2:22 pm

      asdf….so true. nine months later and she was alive.

    345. Island Hopper on June 16th, 2005 2:23 pm

      Blaming Natalee or the chaperone, her parents or her friends for what Joran and his friends chose to do to her is simply making excuses for the Aruban boys. The only person’s responsible for the crime are the criminals. You are wrong to blame anyone else. If you remove the criminals, the crime would not happen period. None of the actions of anyone else would matter. You may remove any other person in the equation and a crime would still have most likely happened. If not Natalee, someone else. These boys had a hardon to make a movie or to kill a young tourist or whatever gets their rocks off that they needed to do that night. They planned it and did it. No one was going to stop them, they have been taught they are above the law and have help from Joran’s daddy if the law gets in the way of their fun.

    346. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:23 pm

      ASDF—-Elizabeth Smart was lost in a HUGE COUNTRY: The United States. She could have been anywhere, so the fact that she did not turn up immediately was not as curious as the Arubans’ failure to find Natalee Holloway, who disappeared on a TINY island.

    347. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:23 pm

      Billy this isn’t about hitler, or anything else. I’m simply saying that beating the crap out of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers wouldn’t solve anything

    348. tideroller on June 16th, 2005 2:23 pm

      Traveler – There’s a saying here that if you don’t know anything you should just keep your mouth shut. No one really cares about what you “think” because you only threw out your unsubstantiated “wishes” as to how things were. The VanderSlut’s are not “fine”upstanding people as you picture them in your daydreams. Their pictures are plastered all over the Internet with the mother in see-through blouses, with the sons dirty dancing at parties where the parents are present. In nearly every picture you see of the VDS some family member has a drink in his hand. There are pictures of the father in obvious drunken disarray at parties where his sons are present. There is testimony that he frequented the casinos with his underaged sons. They are NOT fine upstanding citizens. They are SLEAZE. If you want to fantasize about this tragedy, do it on your own time, don’t waste our time by writing such irresponsible drivel.

    349. Tom on June 16th, 2005 2:23 pm

      Im a hater.

      Tried to email you but your email was a fake. Send me an email and I will tell you how we can get you off of moderation.

      Tom

      tom@scaredmonkeys.com

    350. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:23 pm

      Two and a half weeks and nothing on an island with all of those people searching. Continue searching Aruba but look in other places too. This is getting out of control.

    351. cancon on June 16th, 2005 2:24 pm

      except Billy it turned out Elizabeth Smart was being held just a few miles from home, she didn’t go very far, you can see her house from where she was held hostage

    352. crs on June 16th, 2005 2:24 pm

      Mika, i would imagine she is not just lying somewhere where they will just see her, call me crazy but i think the boys would have enough sense to bury hury her or get rid of the body somewhere fairly creative. The only way she is found is if someone confesses and says where she is. You can’t just go dig up the whole island.

    353. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:25 pm

      Connie–More crimes have been solved through rough interrogations than good police work. I guarantee you that this case would have been solved weeks ago if a few New York Police Department detectives had gotten a chance to work on these kids.

    354. villain_buster on June 16th, 2005 2:25 pm

      Connie – enough is enough ….. these assholes had better fess up and tell the fucking truth …. an entire family has been destroyed

    355. cancon on June 16th, 2005 2:25 pm

      and in Elizabeth Smart’s case, I believe they had searched that area several times and the creepy couple mush have just made sure they were ahead of the search teams

    356. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:26 pm

      Billy, she was lost in one state over. That’s my point. If they haven’t found diddly squat on an island that is smaller than New Jersey, they need to start looking in other places!

    357. Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 2:26 pm

      O.K. Billy ..time to load up on some of your Respirdal or Depakote anit-psychotic meds. Don’t be so impatient….you’re like a little child who throws a hissy fit if he doesn’t get his way right away. They ARE conducting an investigation. These things take a little time. Aryba is a small island BUT THE OCEAN ARAOUND IT IS VERY BIG. Is that so hard to understand. Take a deep breath and practice some relaxation techniques.

    358. Mika on June 16th, 2005 2:26 pm

      I agree with Billy. There is something incredibly bizarre about this story. Why haven’t they given the family an answer, even if it’s hey, we think she drowned? How could they not have an answer after this long? It’s probably because there is so much shit underneath all of this. It wasn’t just a simple make out session on the beach. It was what sounds like an abduction.

    359. pktbk on June 16th, 2005 2:27 pm

      when do we find out if joran’s dad gets visitation?

    360. Connie on June 16th, 2005 2:28 pm

      Villain, why are you cursing me?

    361. asdf on June 16th, 2005 2:29 pm

      pktbk – It’s already been decided that he can’t. From what I’ve read they are awaiting one more answer from a different judge.

    362. cancon on June 16th, 2005 2:30 pm

      sorry Billy, unlike maybe Gitmo you rough up the accused you have grounds for law suits and dismissal of charges, getting confessions thrown out based on co-ercion

      any experienced interrogator, including military and intelligence will tell you you get more information if you can get the suspect to trust you or even identify with you

      now if time is a factor, then you bring in Jack Bauer, LOL and let him manhandle them but in general

      when you use torture etc the person is more likely to give you what they think you want to hear just to stop the pain, doesn’t mean it’s reliable information……

      because if you get these guys yakking and comfortable, then they slip up……..I believe that is the actual rationale behind Camp Gitmo the Terrorist resort

    363. Billy on June 16th, 2005 2:30 pm

      Mecha—What does the size of the ocean have to do with cracking these suspects? This investigation ought to have been solved weeks ago, regardless of whether a body was found. This case isn’t a mystery. We have a well-known victim who disappeared after being seen with 3 well-known, identified, and incarcerated suspects. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT?

    364. Jake on June 16th, 2005 2:31 pm

      Traveler – I think you are right on the money with your theory. I have a feeling that they are going to come out soon with the truth. Isn’t that one of the first things you learn as a Judge in any country “Seek the T