RSSNatalee Holloway – Latest News
Update: Dan over at Riehl World has information that ABC reported on air that the blood in the the Honda was unrelated to this case. There is no confirmation of it, and as everything in this case has gone, this information may change.
There has not been much happening with the case that has been reported.Here is a brief synopsis of where we are at.
Fox News –
Three young men who took an Alabama honors student to the beach before she disappeared must stay in jail, a judge ruled Saturday, as Aruba’s (search) attorney general and others denied reports that one had confessed and said he would take police to the body.
As rumors mounted about the fate of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway (search), a spokeswoman for her family, Carla Caccavale, told The Associated Press: “The family confirms that a body has not been found.”
…
The night Holloway disappeared, she spent part of the evening partying at a restaurant and then in the back seat of a car kissing a 17-year-old Dutch student, according to lawyers quoting from testimony from two Surinamese brothers — friends of the Dutch boy — arrested in the case along with him.
Antonio Carlo, the lawyer representing the Dutch minor, said he is confident his client is “100 percent innocent.”
“My client has not confessed to any crime,” he told The Associated Press.
Police also have detained two other men — former security guards at a hotel near the one where Holloway was staying.
One of their court-appointed lawyers, Noraina Pietersz, said her client also was innocent.
“Five suspects are being held,” van der Biezen said. “We are at a very crucial, very important moment in our investigation.”
Holloway’s mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, is feeling the strain, her brother-in-law told the AP on Saturday morning. Tom “Jar” Twitty said: “She has had amazing stamina up until now.”
Holloway’s family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are “an aggressive interpretation” of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.
Fox News: Aruban authorities investigate blood found in car.
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.
“We have found some blood in the car, but we don’t know to whom it belongs,” he said.
UPDATE: 7:oo pm EDT – Fox News TV has confirmed that the substance found in the vehicle that was sent for test was not blood.
If you liked this post, you may also like these:
Comments
655 Responses to “Natalee Holloway – Latest News”
Good morning guys,
Once again, nothing new. To answer a post earlier, no Top 95.1 isn’t the only radio station, but it’s the one who devotes the most time to it.
There seems to be a thunderstorm here, so I doubt that they’re going to continue the search in the water. If they were going to search in the first place.
Fox is just repeating everything from last night
Finally this story is hitting CNN here in europe. i wonder if once this hits the Dutch radar things will move? also it appears to me that the aruban prosecution/polices dealings with the press are not becoming a story as well?
Good Morning All: This is for Arubagirl – since you are actually down there. All of us here North are really concerned for Natalee. Please send anything as soon as possible. We still are all hoping for the best. Yet when reports/rumors started to fly around yesterday, it was very depressing. Hopefully they’ll will send the dogs out looking for a scent and see if perhaps someone by boat took her off the island.
Has anyone heard anything about the preliminary blood yet
ArubaG- I was reading all last night on here…. Thanks for all your info!
You know I woke up this morning really pissed off about this situation.
I hope this crime doesn’t afffect the people Aruba because I feel Aruba is a very safe vacation spot and this was an isolated incident.
BUT
Law enforcement has been pitiful on this case. I’m afraid it’s Law enforcement that is ruining the tourism industry for this country. Would anyone want to visit a place that can’t even figure out what is going on after 2 weeks? It seems to me they are trying to protect 3 locals and in the process putting Natalee’s parents through absolute hell. If three local boys lives are put in higher regards than a “tourist girls” than good luck with your tourism industry. Open your mouth L.E. solve this trhing or that island is toast.
Cyber
You know what, cyber and all the doomsayers about Aruba’s tourism? After 9/11, it was predicted that no American would step in a plane, ever again. This last tourist season was the highest in 7 years.
We’ve gotten through worse, we’ll get through this again.
Amen
Look AG my point is this investigation sucks. It seems they are putting your whole islands economy in jeapordy because of 3 rich boys. I don’t want to trash Aruba. I’m taking about a team of investagators that leak information then retract it, then say nothing.
I am not worried about the saftey of the country, I’m worried about the people in power of that country.
Can you tell us why it has taken 2 weeks to come this far?
And how far have we come?
Those boys can be charged RIGHT AWAY with covering up a crime AND lying to police.
So DO IT!
i hear that they think the are going to wrap it today.. and that they think it s not a homicicde.,.. go figure…
this investagations so far appears to be bullshit…
I don’t think Arubagirl can answer those questions. Only the Aruban authorities can answer those. Arubagirl wishes for this to conclude ASAP as well as all the people in Aruba. From the outside this is not a complicated case although after 2 weeks there is NOTHING that is solid. That is the problem.
I have watched most of the earlier posts concerning this story and I have to say some things to all of those playing the “blame game”. I think most would agree that if it turns out she was murdered, the people who murdered her are obviously to blame. However, some key decisions were made that put a young high school girl in a very bad situation. It may hurt people to read this but, why did the parents let their daughter go on a vacation like this? I know everyone says she was responsible, but give me a break, she is a high school senior. The others say she is 18 and an adult, but don’t the parents control the purse strings? I am sure they could have said “you can go, but don’t expect any money from us any time soon”. Yes there comes a time to let your kids out of the nest, but a trip to a foreign country with the purpose of partying and have “some good old fun” doesn’t neccessarily fall into this category. Also others will say, this happens in schools all over and nothing like this has happened before. I’ll bet that statistic doesn’t matter to Natalee’s family now. It would have been better to show her some tough love and not let her go on this “party trip”. I am sure Natalee’s prents are good people and obviously did a good job raising her, but I think parents of high school kids have to realize that no matter how responsible the kids may seem, the fact remains that they are still a high school kid. And all of us who have been that age know we thought we were invincible and “all-knowing” as high school seniors. Interestingly, it seems our society wants our kids to grow up faster and accept more responsibility than ever before. Yet we refuse to accept our own resonsibility as adults to help these kids make good decisions and keep them out of bad situations as much as possible. Feel free to post hating comments at my post, with comments like “how could you blame the parents at a time like this” and “great idea, keep your kid sheltered their whole life”. But to those of you with high school kids at home, think about the consequences that your actions have on your kid. Think about how your kid watches your example and think of better ways to teach your kids the tools to be a good adult and learn the ways of the world than to just turn them loos so they can “spread their wings” on their own and learn.
Obviously the attorneys are involved in this matter to protect their clients (rich boys) telling them to keep their mouth shut. I say unless blood is found of Natalie in the trunk of the Ducthboy the three will be set free. Without a body you have nothing.
And we forget about the other 2 men that are being held. I don’t think they had anything to do with it and they have kids and family to get back to. It is so very obviouse that these three boys know something and did you see Joran’s mother on the news? When I saw her interview I said to myself OK well that just shows me that Joran has done something. Here’s what she said:
“He was willing to help with anything, and he had a kind of quiet resolve — I mean he said, ‘Mom, don’t be upset because everything will be fine. I know I am innocent, I didn’t do anything,’” Anita Van Der Sloot told CNN.
“And in a very almost naive way he was very open with us, told us everything what happened,” she said, adding that he has offered to speak with the Holloway family.
I don’t know maybe it’s just me, but it sounds odd.
The other night when the “confession” came out it was so upsetting and I feel for her family who is being taken on this rollercoaster from hell.
This was not the first trip to Aruba for seniors from Natalee’s school. Graduation classes had been visiting Aruba for years without incidence and so why would they think anything bad would happen based on what had happened in the past.
I think what is frustrating everybody is that the officially nothing has been said. In this case ‘officially’ for me is the prosecution’s office and the police. So, nobody is saying anything, thus, there is nothing found. I’m saying that in previous experience, the silence is pretty usual to the press. CNN an AP firing stories about alleged confessions made the cops and prosecutors clam up even more.
Now, that they’re not saying anything to the parents (according to the parents), that’s horrible. Jeesus Caren Janssen, if this is true, have some compassion.
NKJ Luke 12:2 “For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known.
The truth always comes out.
NKJ James 3:16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
The abundance of confusion shows that the authorities on this island do not serve the Lord Jesus Christ but rather the god of this world – Satan! My reading shows that this Island exists to promote lifestyles that do not honor Jesus Christ. They do honor and glorify Satan!
Make no mistake – God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, might move slower than we like but His justice will be unmistakable when the time comes!
Sodom and Gomorrah had life as usual (homosexuallity, free sex, drugs, etc.) until judgment came resulting in total Annihilation.
NKJ Hebrews 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If you touch one of His children, even if they are doing wrong, then you can expect for God to “give you an offer you can not refuse.”
Jerry, car is not v/d Sloot’s according to local radio station. I’m leaning toward that direction as well, since he’s 17, not allowed to drive, and I doubt that a jurist would give his 17 year-old keys to a car.
17 year olds cannot drive in Aruba?
Now SATAN is responsible. How bout them apples!
Not legally, no.
Badboy, hee.
I wonder, when Natalee left, was she in the front seat or back seat? Anyone know?
Arubagirl I see you’re still hanging in there. Good morning.
What about the other one or two people arrested Saturday morning has anything been said about them. People of interest or what involved in the disappearance
Is it possible that this will be ruled out as an accident? Like as in the white boy drug dealer, Joran ,drugged her and OOPS now something bad has happened and she is dead? GIve me a break!
About Nat or any kid being allowed to go on this trip, an 18n YO is an adult, they are fully capable of going anywhere they want. This trip was a trip she or any 18 YO should have taken. I’m sick of the Monday morning Quarterbacking. Hind sight is 20/20 and questiong this trip is a low blow as far as I’m concerened.
Something bad happened it’s that simple.
Just tell the parents and the rest of the concerend public what that was, that is if they can even figure it out or is it some sort of cover-up?
i d start back at the holiday inn if this is not solved by today.. sheez! how many times do i have to say it…
nan if that happened i think this would have been over by now…
Probably in the back seat seeing as Joran can’t drive the other 2 boys were in front
back seat according to locals…
Did you hear Mr. and Mrs. Twitty describe Sloot as being arrogant? Sounded as if they met him when they first arrived on the island.
I thought the story was that Nat got in th efront with Joran driving and Then someone noticed two more men in the back.
Sarah, I think it was said that she was in the back seat. I don’t know how solid that info is.
Good morning, Golden.
Jerry, yesterday’s arrest did not have anything to do with the case.
Nan, if that’s what happened, that’s not an accident. Even if she fell, hit her head and died, they’re still going to be prosecuted.
On another note, if I read the word ‘cover-up’ one.more.damn.time., I will become a troll.
Aruba girl do you know anything about the last arrests Saturday morning
Clearly the police department tried very hard to ‘bop and weave’ this tragedy on two Sannicolas boys. Really hard. Very not interesting for the Dutch to have all the international media focussed on one white Dutch boy bring down whole of Aruba. Salliant detail is that the Dutch government (Balkenende) is busy with implementing a new law concerning Aruban and Antilles kids between 18 -24 years. Although we’re part of the Dutch Kingdom, they want to degrade us, by prohibiting these kids from freely going to Holland without work and/or school papers. Now, about Joran … maybe we should adjust our laws too …guess it to late … You know what would be interesting? What if the US calls for extradition with a lesser punishment like “life without parole”, we don’t support capital punishment. I know, not territorial , but still, what if? It’s know that Bush has taken a personal intrest in this case. Could this tragedy boil down to a breach in Holland/US relations?
Nan, I’m not sure if Joran was driving or not. He’s not ALLOWED to drive, that’s why I thought that a judge-wanna-be would not give his son car keys. But it’s entirely possible that the brothers let Joran drive.
ms. twitty did indeed say that joran is arrogant ,and cold…
ArubaGirl: Are the families of the 3 young men considered “rich” as I’ve seen assumed on this board or more “middle class”? This type of comparison may be difficult based on US Vs Aruban standards. Thank you.
Wow, you can’t drive but you can sit in a casino and gamble and drink. Hmmmmmmm
Leila, if he is born in Holland, he needs a ‘permiso’ (resident papers). I’m born in Holland from Aruban parents and I need one.
I have not heard anything skewering things either way.
Dutch / U.S. breach could be possible. .
something about the holiday does nt make sense… how and why is a 17 yo able to hold off the fbi for 10 days? HUH?
appears rich i have seen pictures from jorans brothers website and satish’s website they both seem to travel alot and have nice things. My son is up have a good day i will check back Aruba girl thanks for the info
ArubaGirl,
I have been to the Netherlands and I recognize that Dutch people don’t move at the same pace as Americans. I can only imagine that time is of less importance in a Dutch “island community”. I believe that some of the Aruban frustration comes from Americans wanting things to move fast, show progress and results. It is just a differnt way of thinking. Americans think if you are pittiling around and not showing reults, you must be trying to prevent progress. The only motivation for intentionally preventing progress must be to cover something up in order to protect a positive tourist image.
Sarah, again, not legally.
I have a question for Arubagirl. There was some mention a while back from one source that they were looking in the caves and a quarries for Natalee. Since I have never been to Aruba and am not familiar with the lay of the land, I was curious where are the caves and quarries located in relation to Arashi beach and the lighthouse?
Arubagirl, u do not need permiso. Birth certificate will suffice
Hope you like lots of wind in Aruba!
So, is it typical to find underage–17 and under—kids in the casinos and bars in Aruba or is Sloot just above the law. Looks like Daddy would be concerned his image would be tarnished by his out of control son. Also, this completely blows the “Joran’s background is just as squeeky clean as Natalee’s” as the Twitty’s were told.
Badboy, there’s no intent, believe me you they’re not that smart here
Leila, trust me that I do.
Don’t go overboard now Sarah. It’s definatelly not typical to find underage children. Remember Joran is very tall, 1.92 mtr.
I guess the only question I have is when something bad happend to natalie why did’nt soneone call the police right then if these boys are honest and squeakey clean.
Arubagirl, law changes 3 years ago.
Well, if Joran is well known on the island, and it is a small place, looks like folks would know how old he is and that it is illegal for him to drinking and gambling in the casinos and bars.
aruba gril are there any eniglish speaking radio stations? I was on http://www.arubadag.com and none of them are thx
Yesterday I saw Natalee referred to as 17 Years old by some relatives . I have not seen a Birthdate.
T he 3 boys could keep holding on to their story they had 11 days to prepare for!! Which I think is a crucial hurdle in the investigation. I still cannot come up with a scenario why the police department took SOO long to pick these obvious suspects, not witnesses. Don’t understand that mess up, other than it being political. The world can clearly see that Arubans don’t rule here, van der Straten, is calling the shots with the consent of Dumb Pig. The police department is solely responsable for keeping Aruba in the international news for 11 days!! People think the police isn’t competent, it’s just politics.
18, most seniors graduating from US high schools are 18 and some 19.
I was 17 when i graduated
Sarah, u getting wild. Why would u think everybody know Joran’s age???? It’s small here, but this is going too far
Anyone seen Natalees’ official birthdate?
No one checks id’s? Just assume because someone is tall that they must be of legal age? If that is the case, then I know some corn fed boys and girls of the ripe old age of 14 that could gamble and drink in Aruba.
aua gurl , is it top95.aw?
Arubagirl: I have very much appreciated all of the information you have passed along through this site. Can you tell me where on the island you might find grey/white dust or mud if anywhere?I have had a dream about Natalee and I am trying to confirm what I have seen.
red sand down by KIA….
Sarah go sue ur american casino owner
I think this is a total shame!!! This Young Lady, Had so much going for her!!!! I am totally in AWE of this shit!!!
After this I dont think Dutchboy will want to attend US college liked he planned on. There will be some people waiting for him
Leila–id’s are not usually checked?
Bama, what’s to confirm?
Leila, who’s the Dumb Pig? I can think of many who fit that discription here.
They’re supposed to, Sarah. *supposed to*
aruba gurl, is the station top95.aw? i forgot…
yes, rob
I either had a dream or she came to me and I want to know if what I saw actually exists on the island so I can confirm that this was a vision or just a dream.
Anyone else here from the island besides Arubagirl and Leila?
hmmm not working do i have it correct…?
Okay, I’ll play along. Right now there is mud because it’s raining. There aren’t whole areas of mud when it’s not, usually.
Grey / white dust… uhm, we have a lot of white sand (duh), but dust… Don’t think so.
Sorry, Rob. I told you wrong
Link:
http://www.top95fm.aw/
Brains not quite working.
thank you . . . even if you don’t belive I appreciate your answer. It was more like rock dust. Obviously not sand. That is why I had asked about the location of the caves and quarries.
Ha ha ha, arubagirl, ur good!!
They’ve searched all caves, but to be fair, you’re not the only who has had dreams / visions about the caves.
Sarah, have a new job for u. Go check all your fellow american casino goers on their ID. Boy, u guys love to gamble, dont U?
Riehl World reports
Natalee Holloway: Blood In Car Unrelated To Case
We have been informed that ABC reported on air that early tests indicate the blood found in the Honda suggest that it is unrelated to the case.
Thank you, Leila.
WHere are you from?
Update: Dan over at Riehl World has information that ABC reported on air that the blood in the the Honda was unrelated to this case. There is no confirmation of it, and as everything in this case has gone, this information may change.
Rob:
Rob Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 10:08 am
i d start back at the holiday inn if this is not solved by today.. sheez! how many times do i have to say it…
I agree! I’d like to know more about the SBF guards who were staying at the HI. Such as: how long were they there, did they cover the festival in shifts and when/how did they leave the Island.
Bama, no worries, we indians here. We believe in a lot more between heaven and earth
thank you arubagirl
Arubagirl, what do u mean? Where I live, where I’m born, where I grew up, my descendants. I guess u no where I’m going. All over, and proud of it. We’re the new race. Americans still deviding up in ur black, white , chinese. We here the new breed
thank you Leila . . . I can’t help but think she is trying to show me and others who have had dreams/visions where she is. I just wish there were more I could do to help find her.
I have been to the casinos and frequented bars here. They are very tight and the legal age is 21 in the ones close to me. They do card anyone who is of questionable age, have witnessed this myself. If they let someone slide, they can get a huge fine or be closed down. I am from a small town in Arkansas of about 60,000 folks, where Natalee’s dad was raised. She still has relatives here, several that are currently in Aruba aiding in the search. Her Aunt Linda (who is her dad’s sister) and cousin are both from here and now in Aruba. The local news stated this morning that area churches are collecting money so that they can help them to stay there until the search has ended.
I mean, what part in the island.
And Leila AMEN and a HALLELUJAH to you on the Americans still dividing by race. What is that about?
Bama. where is she then? Question: Do u believe?
I live by Arie, arubagirl
Back from Church , thank you every one for being so nice last night and this morning. Nothing new to report.. Even tips recieved as late as last night are not panning out.
Last night there were over a thousand posts, including some by girls that were on the trip. Very interesting.
I don’t know exactly, that’s the hard part with visions, especially when they refer to places you have never seen or physically been to before . . . I just saw her covered in this dust and I stood next to her underneath the lighthouse. Unfortunately, I believe she would not have been able to come to me if she were not already on another plane. Is that what you are asking?
Sarah, good point about questionnable age. My point is that Joran’s appearance doesn’t raise concerns. Hard to check everybody I believe. Policy is to get people inside, not keep them outside
Regarding Caves: The tourist caves: Fontein, Guadirikiri, Tunnel of Love are too well known and visited to hide somewhere
They’ve searched Huliba Cave
The cave(s) at Canashito are extremely hard to reach, and in the dark, it’s near impossible, in my opinion.
I’m pretty sured that they’ve searched a phosphate mine, but I don’t know if they’ve searched both.
I don’t know if they’ve searched Lago Colony Cave.
The phosphate mines and Lago Colony Cave’s existence isn’t that well known and their locations are obscure, so I’m wondering if the 3 would know that they existed at all.
Aruba Girl
Do they still have the limited access to the Casino for the residents of the island?
I think so, but how much it is being enforced is a totally other matter.
They may not have known they existed but they may have received help from someone who did. I am very curious about the phosphate mine.
Arubagirl,
Are there any press conferences planned today? Are the TV or radio stations reporting anything new? Newspapers?
I want to thank you for staying with us and keeping us up to date on news from the island.
Bamaborn, I’ll answer you in a sec.
Nancy-drew, nothing new.
It sounds as though the island itself has been searched. What about people’s homes? These boys had plenty of time to watch the search and hide the body inside somewhere.
Thanks
Say a prayer for Natalee
thank you arubagirl for the details on the caves and phosphate mine. Very interesting. I sincerely beleive they need to search Lago Colony Cave and the phosphate mine if they have not already.
Bama Born, there are two phosphate mines. THere is one where you can sort of just walk in, it’s incredibly extensive and it resembles a maze. I’ve walked in there for 4 hours with friends and I don’t think I’ve covered more than half of it.
The other phosphate mine you’ll have to rappell down to it, as from the opening to the bottom it’s a several -meters drop. It’s open now, my friends and I went to look there (not rappell down, but just from the opening), and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
(First time posting) I have been reading most of the posts…. Question: Was Joran a drug dealer? And as for the ID sitruation. I was born and raised in Fort Lauderdale, got into every club since I was 15 and I look young. Most clubs in “party” cities have a price for minors. It has nothing to do with the place, just the person.
Sarah they have searched people’s home (other than the five). I have no idea which method they used to decide which houses to search.
Leila…. What do u mean? Where I live, where I was born, where I grew up, my ancesters? The United States of America for me.
Oh and I don’t lump all people anywhere as being any way or not being any certain way. I think it’s sad when people do and it definitely shows racism.
In the words of Rodney King, “can’t we all just get along?”
We are all part of the Human Race, where we live is just geography!
Joran being a drugdealer? I don’t know, haven’t heard anything about it, but it’s not like I’ll keel over from shock if he turns out to be one.
Dream of local was published aswell on Natalee whereabouts. Also indicating north/west side, more going to grapefield/KIA
auruba gurl, thanx back from breakfast now…i ll tell ya what.. if natalee is not found be jun 25 when i get there im getting a group together and going to the abandoned town near kia and kicking every door open….
Didn;t ask u where u from, cat, …
Really, how much stock can you put into a dream. Unless it belongs to Martin Luther King, of course.
i still believe thats where she is.. alive or dead…
If she is still alive, and they think they have her suspects in custody, how long do they think they have to keep her alive?
Also does Aruba believe in polygraphs?
Leila: are the phosphate mines on the north/west side of the island?
i dreamed that the concorde crashed and then 2 days later slammo!
I know that they searched in Lago Colony, but don’t know how extensively. I’m not a government employee that got off to search, so don’t know what happened there.
I do know that there is a lot of places to hide someone there.
Bama, they’re on the east side.
Rob, Kicking doors?
Guess all the people who do live there are going to be a bit startled.
I don’t think that she is still on the island. Especially if she is still alive. She would have escaped or been found by now.
Kicking door in US ,aswell, Rob?
Sounds like a bad episode of Cops, Rob.
jairo said they search the area near kia at the beginning, but i have to wonder just how extensively, but there are many places to hide or stasha body.. that s my theory still.. yesterday they had the whirlwind that said thats bascially where they were looking again and that the father waqs being taken there… so i still have my sights locked on there
“What if the US calls for extradition with a lesser punishment like “life without parole”, we don’t support capital punishment. I know, not territorial , but still, what if?”
Leila.. Let me just say this about extraditing anyone. First of all, a person is extradited TO the location (country, province, state, etc) WHERE THE CRIME WAS COMMITTED.
President Bush, as powerful as those people outside the United States might THINK he is, cannot do anything in this case.
I’ve seen this question about extraditing the boys out of Aruba several times on different forums. As little as we know about Dutch law and what is happening in Aruba, apparently alot of people are also confused or have a lack knowledge of the extradition process.
In NO WAY could these boys or any other criminal (for that matter) be extradited to the United States when NO crime took place IN the United States. These boys did not commit a crime against the United States. IF it is proven there was a crime and these boys were involved, they commited a crime against Aruba (law).
For some interactive chat…
http://groups.msn.com/FindNatalee/chat
or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NataleeHolloway/chat
I will continue to pray for and meditate on Natalee.
maybe you did nt understand me.. i said kicking the doors in at the abandoned town , all of the houses and buildings that are not occupied….
I know that that area was the focus of the civil servant’s search. Don’t know precisely what they did though.
Does anyone know how far the beach is from C&C’s and how far the from the beach to the hotel?
have you been there….? it almost totally abandoned…i kid you not….
I’ve been following this whole story..and have been wondering..how is it in a bar like Carlos and Charlies..the head man said he saw Natalee leave about 10 minutes to closing time?? With all the festivities and kids and partying going on..he noticed “one” particular girl leaving?? Seems odd to me??
C&C to Arashi? 15 min.
ARashai to hotel: 7-10 minutes.
did they check every room of every house or building?
Kuaitzu, I was a bit surprised at that as well.
Sannicolas ”quite’ upset already, Rob, by the decoy being planted with Jones, Maybe u coming there would be a good outlet for the people from choclatecity
So that would give them only 3-5 minutes at the beach? Seems strange.
they love me in san nic…..
I have no idea Rob. I really don’t. I would check with a friend who was there helping with Red Cross, but she’ll prob. kick my ass for waking her up.
MissyRose, you’re not the only one saying that.
there has to be a 100 or more old houses and who knows how many other bulildings…
Kuaitzu
Usually in a club, the manager is in the front like that at the end of he night as that is where the trouble ends up. If she was waving to her friends and they were yelling, he most likely would have seen this and remembered it.
One of the main parts of being a bar or restaurant manager is an obsession to details. So I am not surprised that he saw it and then remembered it.
T
C&C’s closed @ 1 a.m., the owner said she left 10 minutes til 1. These times are an estimate not excat Maybe they left at 10 til 1 and dropped her off at 2:15 a.m.
That is 1 hour 25 minutes.
Thanks Tom. I was just surprised that he remembered.
Do we know if Natalee and this guy hooked up prior to the night that she left with him?
I agree with Leila. The mishandling of this case by the police is becoming apparent to everyone. (1) It took almost a week to pick up Van der Sloot and his two companions, even though their story was incredible ON ITS FACE. There were numerous inconsistencies in the early accounts, and no one seemed to want to follow up. (2) There was no search of the car or the homes of these 3 until 10 days after the disappearance. Plenty of time to get rid of incriminating evidence, other than blood. (3) There are reports that the 3 were not interrogated for 24 hours after their arrest. Why these 3 were not subject to round-the-clock interrogation from day one is beyond me. (4) The Aruban authorities have even reneged on their promise to keep the family informed. (5) Conflicting stories of whether one of the 3 has confessed indicate that top officials of the Aruban government are not even getting good information. (6) The presence of so many FBI agents indicates that the United States has no confidence that the Aruban authorities are in control of this case.
Even if they cracked the case today, which seems to be ulikely, there are still disturbing signs of massive bungling, corruption, mishandling, misinformation, and general incompetence.
well im going to the pool. i need to let my fission powered gray matter rest for a lil bit….
see you guys later.
praying for a postive outcome…
R
Arubagirl, Bama, phosphate mines also in west. Ever heard of the”racetrack” episode?
“What if the US calls for extradition with a lesser punishment like “life without parole”, we don’t support capital punishment. I know, not territorial , but still, what if?”
Leila.. Let me just say this about extraditing anyone. First of all, a person is extradited TO the location (country, province, state, etc) WHERE THE CRIME WAS COMMITTED.
President Bush, as powerful as those people outside the United States might THINK he is, cannot do anything in this case.
I’ve seen this question about extraditing the boys out of Aruba several times on different forums. As little as we know about Dutch law and what is happening in Aruba, apparently alot of people are also confused or have a lack knowledge of the extradition process.
In NO WAY could these boys or any other criminal (for that matter) be extradited to the United States when NO crime took place IN the United States. These boys did not commit a crime against the United States. IF it is proven there was a crime and these boys were involved, they commited a crime against Aruba (law).
Sorry, I;m taking it back, false
Oh, bad boy that makes more sense. I thought it was reported that she left at 1:30. And was dropped off by 2 AM.
What time is it in Aruba now? I am at 10:27 am cst.
Okay, San Nicolaas is in East (hence sunRISE city). ONe phosphate mine is at the entrance of Colony, the other at the foot of the Sero Colorado Hill.
How are they in the West?
Cat, explain me the mansur brothers case. Did they commit anything in the US?
wanna bet ask the columbian drug lord that was shipped to the us last week. he was never in the us, but committed crimes here… he found out… does nt look to be leaving anytime soon…
ok see ya
R
“6) The presence of so many FBI agents indicates that the United States has no confidence that the Aruban authorities are in control of this case.”
I’d tend to agree with that assumption. I’d also expect, now that the news is starting to hit Europe, that you’ll see the Dutch sending people who are actually experienced dealing with the media in crisis/crime situations to Aruba to relace the “volunteer” spokespeople and start to manage the flow and accuracy of information.
11.30 am
I don’t think the blood is going to help the case. I feel that even if it is Natalee’s it proves nothing more than that she was in the car. This Joran guy is very deceptive and smart. He has covered his bases, one by admitting she was in the car, and two saying they were in the backseat messing around.
thanks arubagirl
5) or that the media is getting false information. Just saying.
Arubagirl, apologies, I was wrong, excusez-moi
I have read repeatedly that one of the boys told authorities that Natalee refused to get out of the car. I am confused each time I see that – what does he mean and is it relevant? Does anyone know, at what point in the night are they saying that occurred – at the hotel before she stumbled, – which would be curious, at the beach?
Huh?
Larry, the FBI being here is the Aruban way to show sign of transparency en coop
The number of contradictions in the reported accounts of Van der Sloot and his 2 companions are numerous. The idea that Natalee didn’t want to get out of the car is just one more. Are we to suppose that she wanted to go back to the beach for another round of fun and frolick? Please.
How long are they able to keep the security officers in custody?
::”Cat, explain me the mansur brothers case. Did they commit anything in the US?”::
Leila… The only way a person can be extradited to the United States is IF a crime was commited on United States soil (which by the way, includeds U.S. Embassies, consulates, etc). OR if they commited a crime against the United States.
These 3 boys fall in neither category. They cannot be extradited to the US.
Catriana – while in theory you’re right, the US government can start to ramp up the amount of political pressure that can be placed on the Dutch and Aruban authorities to get their act together. Ultimately, there’s nothing that can stop the US authorities to file criminal charges in the US against someone from another country – it happens all the time – and they don’t even need to push for him to be extradited: instead, they wait until the person charged leaves US soil to another country who has a relationship with the US which permits apprehension on their soil, with little paperwork or due process.
I haven’t found the ABC report about the blood anywhere on their site and haven’t heard it broadcast. Will someone add a link to their story on the blood not matching? Or, details on their on-air report?
Cat, “not against the US”?
Can abyone confirm two rumors circulating in Curacao?
1. Joran came to school the next day with scratches and bruises on his face.
2. Natile has run away before.
Also, any comment on Joran’s anger management issues? Joran is a big (tall) kid. I find it odd that he ran with guys older than he. He was in jail on his graduation day, was upposed to go to Flagler University in Fla according to article in Aruba paper based on interview with his mother, who also taught at the school he attended. He has lived in Aruba since age 3. Iquitos
The statement “she didn’t want to get out of the car” has guilt all over it. Either she didn’t want to get out of the car at the beach, it was because she probably didn’t trust them. If she didn’t want to get out of the car at the hotel, she was scared of something.
Leila or ArubaGirl:
I’d like to know more about the SBF guards who were staying at the HI. Such as: how long were they there, did they cover the festival in shifts and when/how did they leave the Island.
RB… Exactly what do you think the US can do about those 3 boys in Aruba? Political pressure? It couldn’t possibly be any more pressure than the Tourist pressure. Personally, I’m not impressed with the system of law in Aruba. It’s secrecy only leaves for speculations and concerns for corruption. Not to say that an open system does not have it’s corruption, but history has shown that secrey only breeds a lack of faith/trust.
Considering the number of foreigners in their small country, it would seem that they would have a Public Relations dept.
So, I will stick by my post. The United States government has no interest in extraditing these three young men, nor does it have any power over the Aruba government or system of law.
“The only way a person can be extradited to the United States is IF a crime was commited on United States soil (which by the way, includeds U.S. Embassies, consulates, etc). OR if they commited a crime against the United States.”
It’s a grey area there, Cat. Remember the FBI is involved at this point, from an “observer” perspective (and I don’t believe that – they are getting themselves more involved.) If an act is perpetrated against a US citizen, on foreign soil, federally it can be considered an act against a citizen of the US.
No matter how you slice it..my heart aches for the family. Mrs. Twitty is close to a breakdown..I just wish I could give her a hug. And to Natalee if your out there somewhere..the whole world is praying for you..you have become everyones daughter. I have the deepest respect for the Holloway and Twitty families..they are giving it their all. They love Natalee very much..that is so evident.
Aruba will not let who ever did this get away with it. They will make an example of this situation.
The presence of so many FBI agents would be a sign of transparency and cooperation, if it occurred early on AND if it occurred at the invitation of the Aruban authorities. But I have a feeling that it did not happen right away, and that it was not at the invitation of the Aruban authorities. Besides, what good can a slew of FBI agents do, when the 3 prime suspects were not even in custody, and when there was no search warrant for the car or the homes of the 3? Does sending Navy divers and teams of agents to search the wetlands amount to anything, when there is no access to the 3 people who last saw Natalee alive? And the fact that the family has been cut off from information indicates a lack of transparency and lack of cooperation.
I’m trying real hard to give the Aruban authorities the benefit of the doubt. But it’s getting harder, hour by hour.
No Leila, the crime (if any) these boys commited was NOT against the US, just because the victim is a United States citizen. Our citizens take responsibility for themselves when they leave US soil. We (our government) provides Embassies and consulates to help and assist our citizens when outside of the US. We have no power over the laws/governments of the countries they choose to visit.
I went to Flagler College. That says a lot about him.
Larry, our FBI agents cannot just go to any country they want and take over an investigation. Any participation of the FBI or any other investigative branch from any place other than Aruba, would have to be at the invitation of the Aruba authorities.
Arubagirl, you said one of the mines was at the foot Sero Colorado hill? There was a hill or a steep incline or drop in my vision. as well. hmmmm
I was wondering if any of the 3 boys had any bruises or scrathes when they were picked up as witnesses. Seems to me if they did then they would have been held then. I’m also curious if all the people staying at the HI in at the same time as Natalee were questioned including security people at that hotel and surrounding hotels.
“Exactly what do you think the US can do about those 3 boys in Aruba? Political pressure?”
AND
“It couldn’t possibly be any more pressure than the Tourist pressure. ”
It’s a bigger picture than just “tourism pressure.” They don’t *have* a PR department, and if they do, they have “spokespeople” whose normal job is something else entirely. This is clearly evident by the flip-flop of information which is happening, and the fact the family isn’t getting any details. That being said, and the fact the US media is now camped out down there, this type of exposure can do severe damage to the integrity of the Dutch and to the tourism dependent economy of Aruba. The way the Europeans deal with this type of exposure is much different than we do in the US.
To Catriana: The question is whether the invitation was freely given, or after political pressure was applied. The fact that the Alabama governor and one U. S. Senator had to get involved argues that the invitation came only after pressure.
In my opinion, a series of cascading events caused this terrible situation.
The parents sent their child to a country where she could booze it up; something she could not do in the US at her age. Second, the chaperons were checked out; probably partying it up themselves. Lastly, Natalee didn’t seem to convey good judgement.
All very sad!
Deputy
Given Beth Twitty’s shock and anger at not being informed before the media I think eveyone should support her by contacting the Arubian authorities pressing for answers. She does deserve to not hear things like this from TV reporters. It must have felt horrible to have Geraldo (of all people) inform her about the blood in the car!!! They didn’t even honor her with that tidbit yet they told Geraldo.
::”If an act is perpetrated against a US citizen, on foreign soil, federally it can be considered an act against a citizen of the US.”::
RB… Exactly and that is all it is, an act against a citizen of the US. NOT an act against the United States of America. Big difference.
Citizens are warned about venturing to places outside of US Soil. Those warning include statements regarding the US governments inability to interfere in the laws of foreign lands. Our citizens are not immuned from the laws of foreign lands they visit, neither can the United States government step in and take a criminal from a foreign land because it is assumed they commited a crime against one of our citizens. That is the risk our citizens take when they leave US soil.
Larry – that’s a good set of points. I agree.
Deputy: I agree to an extent.
This happened because no one was being accountable to anyone else. Everyone pawned off whose responsibility it was to make good decisions. Especially these 3 guys.
I am happy that the media have camped out in Aruba. I am happy that Geraldo Rivera is there, and that the investigation is getting international coverage. I truly believe that we would be getting EVEN LESS information, were it not for this publicity.
The blood in the car could be just from the “intimate fondling”. We don’t know how much blood was found.
The publicity is our only hope for answers.
The translation of the Dutch article published today is:
Title: More proof against Joran: Dark clouds hang above the head of Joran van of the S. There has been more proof that the 17-birthday son has of a Dutch judge had something to do with the disappearance of the American student Natalee Holloway in Aruba. Joran is one of the last persons to see the 18-birthday girl alive. She went missing during a school trip to the Caribische island. Joran was the first one to be heard as a witness, but since Thursday he has become a suspected facing charges for murder, manslaughter and abduction with the dead as consequence. Also his two Surinamese friends, Satish and Deepak K., were taken. Sources, that have seen excerpts of the declaration of the Surinamese brothers, affirm that Joran and Natalee kissed on the back seat of the car. There has been also some sexual activity between them.Meanwhile blood tracks have been found in the car.
Found @ http://www.hasibokos.com
I feel that lots of poor judgement coupled with some badly behaving people caused this situation.
#1) All of the parents should not have sent their kids to Aruba; not just the Holloways. It is by the grace of God that the others returned.
#2) These chaperons did not do their jobs. Where were they?
#3) Sadly, what kinds of peers did Natalee hang with? I am amazed that she convinced 100+ fellow students to look the other way as she hung with the locals.
#4) Here parents are in Aruba now, after the tragedy, why did they not go on the trip as a chaperon?
#5) Natalee seemed to be out of control.
Deputy
“Exactly and that is all it is, an act against a citizen of the US. NOT an act against the United States of America. Big difference.”
It’s a big difference in theory, but in practical application I assure you it can be construed in other ways. You’re missing the point that the implication of such is not (and I repeat, IS NOT) going to mean anyone is going to get extradited, it is going to mean that the level of pressure is going to be ramped up on Aruban and Dutch authorities considerably to provide information and *get on the same page* as each other, something which doesn’t appear to have happened. That concept alone exposed to the world and especially Europ, will not please the Dutch and you’ll have more involvement from the Motherland on Aruba as a result.
Larry, Pressure or no pressure, it is the Aruban authorities that can either ask, allow or not allow. I pressure folks all the time to give me money, it doesn’t mean they have to cave and give it to me.
Let’s not forget that since none of us is privy to the private going ons behind closed doors, we have no proof if any pressure was applied at all. Personally, I think those Aruban authorities hold up pretty darn well under pressure. They haven’t given us any information on the case yet, have they?
Sorry, I don’t believe that they were pressured to do anything. I think that the idea of the US pressuring people is a myth perpetrated by people who generally hate the US of A.
I’m sure that the Aruban authorities welcomed the offer of help in an area that they have very little experience in and that’s all I believe it was.
Larry – it’s the only time I’ve ever supported Geraldo being *anywhere.*
Face the reality: 99,9% of Americans youngsters that come to Aruba will go all out in nightclubs. They drink to the fullest all night long, they use drugs and they dont’t care with whom they will end up that night. They are on the island to party!! You can’t imagine how many girls are leaving local bars with beach bums, strangers in cars, in a taxi or just walking. I heard from a beach-bum that Natalee was the whole week partying and drunk (where are the chaperones on this moment!).
Former Sheriff, I agree with most of what you say. This trip had disaster written all over it from the beginning. My only surprise is that this hasn’t happened more often….
People live in the illusion and the illusion was that “nothing can happen to them” especially in “a crime free area such as Aruba” (another illusion).
I don’t understand why some of you think that an 18 year old is to young to go on a trip such as that to Aruba when that same 18 year old is old enough to go fight in a war. To immature to vacation on their own but mature enough to do a man’s work when fighting the enemy?
You know what thousands of underagers go to Tijuana every year doing the same thing. Parents need to be responsible, and hold there children accountable.
Tom, I would be interested to read the posts from people who were on the trip with natalee. do you remember about what time they were so i dont have to sift through the other 1000 posts from last night?
bamaborn,
Please, your intent is good, but you are not some sort of medium.
Statements of things like hills and trees and water and clouds are too broad to be significant. It’s like a psychic that says..”I see someone with hair in your future…this person also has a nose and a mouth.” Ummm….thanks….that narrows it down for me.
I do want to say something about the spokesperson, this lady v/d Biezen is not the usual spkesperson for the prosecutions’s office. It’s usually another lady, (Mariaine Croes), but I have no idea why she isn’t handling this.
Conflicting reports? Those only come from the media, darling, as the cops and prosecution are keeping their mouths shut. After the drama of Friday night, I don’t blame them.
“I’m sure that the Aruban authorities welcomed the offer of help in an area that they have very little experience in and that’s all I believe it was”
Catrina WRT to the “offer”: you’re entitled to your belief, however I’ve lived and worked in DC for a long time, and that is not what I am currently hearing locally. The Dutch “accepted” the help – not the Arubans.
I believe that the parents are the first line of defense for their child(ren). In my opinion, the Holloways endoresed a destination known for bringing out the wild side of people. The Holloways by allowing Natalee to go, endorsed the potential bad behavior.
Second, these chaperons should be ashamed! How can they live with themselves knowing that one of their own is probably dead under their watch. Shameful!!!!!
I think that the parents and the chaperons should be made to do community service as punishment.
Deputy
Similar cases have occurred in Saudi Arabia, where FBI agents are allowed some oversight, but not allowed to witness interrogations and not allowed access to suspected terrorists. What good is an invitation to the FBI, if the prime suspects are not even in custody, and where we have to wait 10 days to even search their homes or automobiles? That is just window dressing.
18 is old enough. But we, as parents have to make sure that OUR 18 year old is old enough.
I for one am glad Geraldo is in Aruba now. My fear was that once there’s a verdict in the M Jackson trial, this story (along with its scrutiny) could be blasted off the air.
RB
You uneducated fool
The Dutch have to accept. Aruba can’t accept anything with foreign nations, that area is the sole responibility of the Dutch.
I’m sorry for calling you a fool, RB.
That was wrong.
Believe me, this kind of mess has happened before. It just hasn’t gotten the publicity. Sadly, it is own the wealthy, pretty white girls that can command this much attention. It is really sad! If Natalee was a minority, this would be lucky to make the news. Where is the last time a minority child got this much attention? Had this much resources devoted? Had blog pages like this one supporting the effot?
Deputy
Believe me, this kind of mess has happened before. It just hasn’t gotten the publicity. Sadly, it is own the wealthy, pretty white girls that can command this much attention. It is really sad! If Natalee was a minority, this would be lucky to make the news. Where is the last time a minority child got this much attention? Had this much resources devoted? Had blog pages like this one supporting the effot?
Deputy
Did you guys know that Joran Van Der Sloot had gone on a dating website and wrote that he was looking for a physical only relationship?
Nope.
“Second, these chaperons should be ashamed! How can they live with themselves knowing that one of their own is probably dead under their watch. Shameful!!!!!”
That’s crap – I believe that an 18 year old can legally, in this country and in Aruba make their own decisions. That being said, this is an unfortunate set of circumstances and not one anyone would expect to have occurred. Loading “blame” on the chaperones or Natalee’s friends won’t bring anyone back or change what’s happened.
Former Sheriff’s Deputy,
I partially disagree with you. These are NOT toddlers. I don’t think it’s fair to blame the chaperones. At 18, there is a certain amount of freedom that should be allowed. HOWEVER, it is typical to at least have a “bed check” every night. My four children have traveled to spots around the world, climbed mountains, etc. and simple precautions were/are always in place.
I support kids traveling but I do not agree with trips like this, I posted about this before. It’s a location that begets a party atmosphere. Bars and casinos for 140 teenagers? Even mature adults let their hair down and do things on vacation they might not do in their day to day lives. For a young girl in an exotic seemingly very safe place, to have a romantic fling with a cute guy is not an alien thought!!! I assume she felt safe, Aruba doesn’t strike me as a scary place for a kid even if darkness lurked I’m sure it was not apparent to Natalee.
I don’t blame the trip. I blame the bad guys…whoever they are!
MissyRose: Don’t you think that once Natalee went away to college that she wouldn’t have the opportunity to go wild? A parent can only protect their child for so long before they have to cut the apron string and let them fly solo. Hopefully they taught them well before cutting them free.
Jay…I know some of her friends were on last night about midnight to 1 am (CST).
Arubagirl, I’m not “uneducated”, but I have been called a fool from time to time.
thanks kerin
I guess parents should also go to college with their kids to keep them away from frat parties. There is no need to place blame on parents. Seniors from this particular high school had been going to Aruba for years without incident. What would make the parents think this trip would be any different. Also, Natalee had traveled to Europe in the past, she was somewhat experienced.
Why were the three boys allowed to leave the island after the first time they were questioned?
Oh okay. Then the ‘fool’ part stays.
Kidding.
Nancy, I agree with much of what you say. I feel it is appropriate to blame the chaperons. When (If) I send my child on a trip where there are chaperons, I expect the chaperons to act on my behalf. There must be accountability. The chaperons are the adults hopefully acting on my behalf. In this case, it is clear that the chaperons were not doing their job.
Agree?
Deputy
They left the island? Yeah, uhuh, suuuure.
::”I don’t understand why some of you think that an 18 year old is to young to go on a trip such as that to Aruba when that same 18 year old is old enough to go fight in a war. To immature to vacation on their own but mature enough to do a man’s work when fighting the enemy? “::
Well, I can’t speak for others, but I don’t believe they are old enough to go to war, either. But, in the US we have a majority rules system. I voted , I lost.
I also wouldn’t group all 18 year olds in the same boat. In Natalie’s case, she seemed to be an immature and niave 18 year old. So, her parents sent her off on a tropical vacation where she was free to do “whatever” she desired. It looks like once unleashed, she made a lot of bad decisions (not unusual for an inexperienced adult).
Natalee is the only one who put herself on the wrong path. Yes, someone should have stopped her. From reports her friends tried, though I think they could have done more (since they didn’t stop her). The chaperones SHOULD have stopped her. The chaperones should not have allowed those children to go to CnC.
There is a reason why our drinking age is 21. IT was 18 (when I was 18), but it was proven that for the most part 18 year olds are not mature enough to handle alcoholic beverages. Thus, the age for drinking was made 21.
Did Natalee’s parents think that a change in geography (US to Aruba) gave their daughter a better handle on the use of alcohol? Or were they niave and thought their honor roll student daughter wouldn’t drink? It’s obvious from all the chatter on the web from those who went on the trip with her, etc., that Natalee was whooping it up good and partying as hard as possible. I’m equally sure that her parents and Natalee knew it was a party island.
Young adults and alcohol spell disaster. They have no self-control. And when you give up self-control, you make yourself vulnerable to those who will take advantage. A tragic mistake on Natalee’s parents part. A tragic mistake on Natalee’s part. A tragic mistake on the chaperones and her friends part.
We may never know what really happened in Aruba that night, but we all know what didn’t happen.
Why was she alone with these guys? Where were her friends?
Why is all the blame ,for not resolving this case quickly,on the aruban authorities? Seems to me that there are plenty of FBI agents here who apparently have the same problem.
We don’t know the circumstances on her trip to Europe it could have been more “watched”. I agree that this happens all the time to all aged people everywhere. But the fact is this… had the parents put the fear of the situation into their child. She may have not left with 3 men, she may have handled her own drink, maybe kept a buddy near by. I am from a “party” city. I know better than to leave with any stranger, especially if you can’t contact anyone after you go.
Several newssites are reporting Natalee’s age as 18, but others are reporting it as 17…which is it?
Catrianna, I agree with all of what you said.
I wonder if Natalee had been drugged by these goofballs before she left c&c. What did her friends think about the boys. Why didn’t someone go with her? Did they actually see her leave or was it just some folks that worked at the bar that reported seeing her leave with the boys.
Very well said Catriana.
Very well said Catriana.
LOl arubagirl, the fool part can stay – but there’s a plethora of people here who believe the Aruban government “accepted” (and I use that word in quotes as it wasn’t an offer – from my sources, it was a pressure driven decision) and they didn’t – it was the Dutch consulate here which was in those negotiations.
Call me a fool, but your island’s government and police authorities are out of their league in this situation (as far as dealing with the media and the investigation) and everyone in Europe about to know it. The Motherland won’t be happy about that exposure.
Think about this…
Today, parents willingly send their children to hang with Michael Jackson. They knew Michael had a bad reputation, but they jump at the chance to have their child hang with a star.
The Holloways had to know what goes on in Aruba. They had to have know about the reputation for wild times — partying, etc. Yet, they too couldn’t send Natalee fast enough.
Isn’t this a sad world we live in!
Deputy
10 days folks. 10 days were pissed away, while a girl went missing, and where we had every reason to believe that “bad things” had happened to her. They say that, in missing persons cases, the first 48 hours are the most important. (Certainly, if there is any hope of getting the missing person back alive.) Well, 240 hours were pissed away here, and possibly 264 hours before anyone got SERIOUS with interrogating Van der Sloot and his two companions. Good police work? I don’t think so. You can try to put a good face on it, if you wish, but that ain’t good police work in my book. Strategy? What strategy? I’ll eat my words, if it turns out that there was ANY strategic justification for waiting 10 days to start the hard interrogation. That is a promise.
Does anyone know if Natalee was sharing a room with another classmate?
I didn’t want to ask this last night because several of Natalee’s friends were online and I did not want to add to their distress but do we know how many roommates Natalee had on this trip? Just seems that in the obvious absence of any real chaperones, a buddy-system would have been in place and that they would have alerted someone prior to leaving for the airport.
On the Rocks… believe me, thought it sounds like it, it is not about blame. It’s about talking about what went wrong. Talking about what didn’t take place, so that perhaps this won’t happen again to someone else.
Discussing it, talking it out helps save others lives. This shouldn’t have happened, except that too many things didn’t happen right. We are all confronted with decisions every day of our life, do we go left… do we go right? This situation was an accumulation of wrong decisions by many people.
RB
I called you a fool because you seem(ed) to think that the fact that the Dutch handled the FBI going to Aruba is something that Aruba didn’t want.
Aruba is NOT ALLOWED to accept. The NETHERLANDS has to accept. So the fact that the DUTCH handled this means that everything went according to protocol.
And forgive me if I’m not too impressed with the U.S. media. They’re starting to look like a pack of rabid wolves.
Not every parent has sent their kids to Michaels or to Aruba. Not every parent is responsible for their kids lack of good judgement. It is not a sad world, bad things happen to good folks sometimes.
Arubagirl… Not many of us in the US are impressed with the US media, either. In fact, the media in the US has been on a steady decline for years. At some point years ago, our US media stopped being news reporters. They are now (and have been for quite some time) news producers.
Fox had a former FBI agent now security expert for hire on last night, first of all he said the Aruban police are as about as honest and thorough as you are going to get anywhere in the world, from his own experience working with them on several matters, and in any event Joran’s old man is not highranking at all
secondly you may have noted they brought in a judge from Curacao to rule on the detention hearing yesterday so they could be no perception of playing favourites
thirdly, he says he has released suspects many times himself with a view to putting the suspects under surveillance to see where they lead
it does however make you wonder how the security guards fit into this – I’ve suspected all along that only cause they had to pick these guys was the testimony of the 3 party boys who we know know weren’t telling the truth, certainly not the whole truth….
Arubagirl….rabid wolves is exactly right. It’s whatever it takes to sell papers and tabloids.
See, I had great respect for CNN, but right now, not so much anymore. It was quite an disillusionment.
Arubagirl, I don’t “seem” to think anything – this is what I have heard locally and since I might be closer to that end that you, give me the benefit of the doubt. Based on that, I’d submit that any police authorities have a tendency not to like others to stray on their turf in an investigation. This has been true here in the US, and may be true for your island’s authorities, too.
I could care less if you’re not too impressed with the US media – somethimes we aren’t either. There have been monumental lapses of judgement in the investigation, and for the family to have the impression that they were “brushed” off by Aruban authorites initially means something is most definitively wrong. It makes you wonder if more happens in Aruba than gets reported and it isn’t as “safe” as its professed to be.
How did the people of Aruba feel when the two security guards were arrested and the three, younger, lighter and wealther boys were let go?
I think we need to reconsider our values.
* Why was a group of 17 & 18 year olds sent to Aruba as a reward for an academic effort?
* Why was the ratio 124 children to 7 chaperons? Who thought this was appropriate?
* How could so many parents be convinced in to thinking that Aruba was a great, safe place to go for their 17 & 18 year old children?
* How could a drinking destination be viewed as appropriate for 17 & 18 year olds?
Can someone tell me?????
Deputy
I’m not denying that you’ve heard it RB. I’m just saying why it’s completely normal that you have heard this.
DUH!
Deputy:
I think we as adults many times put our greatest fears on our kids. It’s wrong IMO when we do that. I don’t know the guidelines set for the chaperones on this trip. I’ve read it was made clear they were there as facilitators and adults to go to with a problem. I would guess taking on this job overseeing this many kids would suggest they couldn’t reasonably promise more than that. Again, I do think simple “bed checks” and “buddy” plans are very reasonable. But, even if there had been bed checks it would not have prevented this situation. Sure, they might have been out looking for her sooner…but, it’s doubtful it would have prevented a crime.
One of my daughters has traveled since she was very young. She climbed to Machu Pichu and flew in a tiny airplane over the Nazca lines at 12 with family friends…she’s studied Spanish in South America and Mexico, and last year studied in London for the year. Even in London it was shocking to her that the drinking and the “Pub Scene” was such a part of life there. I support freedom and the experiences that travel brings….BUT, she’s now living in an urban NW city and I tell her once a week to make sure she doesn’t walk alone at night!
Every time our kids leave our front doors they are out in a world where danger exists…but, they are also in a world filled with wonders and delight. We can only pray they stay safe and make good choices along the way.
Sarah, most people I know where very puzzled.
::”It makes you wonder if more happens in Aruba than gets reported and it isn’t as “safe” as its professed to be. “::
RB, an excellent observation. I recalled hearing that the tourism is a priority in Aruba. Protecting their image must go hand in hand with that.
Given the secrey in which they conduct their investigations and courts (no press information at all), is it any wonder people are speculating about what the real crime rate is?
Arubagirl, I understand its normal. What’s “normal” for you and me, is not necessarily “normal” for other people who aren’t as knowledgeable as we are.
Catriana, you’ve caught us.
Tourist girls disappear here by the dozens. The DOZENS, I tell you.
Jeez.
Not that it has any bearing on the case but I did find it interesting that I went to C&C’s website (which has been taken down due to all the traffic) and read a letter from the General Manager of the Aruba location. In it he expresses their concern for Natalee’s safety and points out the $5000 donation they made to the search effort. He also makes a statement regarding the reliability of the club and states something about them not allowing underage kids in…abiding by the law, etc. BUT Joran is only 17 and he frequents that bar!
Another example of family ties being stronger than the “law”?
Deputy, not everyone has the same set of values as you.
Kerin, that part about Carlos & Charlie having strict control, BULLSHIT.
Joran wasn’t let in because he’s a “v/d Sloot”. He was let in because if you look like you possible could be 18, you’re in.
Thanks, Catrina.
Mark my words everyone…
Once Natalee’s status is resolved, the lawsuits will be flowing! I’d bet anyone that the Holloway’s next move will be a legal one!
Deputy
Arubagirl: Dozens? Under what conditions?
That’s shocking…and very sad
I think it was common for these boys to hook up with tourists at the bar, who would be leaving the island soon. Foot loose and fancy free living with no boundaries, responsibility and no accountability. The plan was sex and skinnydipping on the beach, and something went wrong. The alocohol, whatever, maybe frolicking in the water while intoxicated resulted in a drowning, or a head injury. It could have been an accident, but there is something that kept them from reporting this and getting help to try to revive or find her after the drowning. Could it be they have done this before, taken girls here, raped them, and the girls left the island and never reported the crime, and this will open up that whole can of worms, other women coming forward? Were drugs involved and if they mention the drugs, they are then linked to a drug ring, and fear for their own lives? So many what ifs, but bottom line is these boys said, lets get out of here, accepting no responsibiliy, accountability, and having no respect for another human being, and her family. Its an outrage!
“Joran wasn’t let in because he’s a “v/d Sloot”. He was let in because if you look like you possible could be 18, you’re in. ”
Hence why the observation that perhaps not all is as its professed to be as far as the “crime free” label. That’s a crime in the US, both for the bar as well as the patron. It’s not murder, but if something so small isn’t accurately regulated, what else passes by the wayside?
::”Every time our kids leave our front doors they are out in a world where danger exists…but, they are also in a world filled with wonders and delight. We can only pray they stay safe and make good choices along the way.”::
We can do more than pray they stay safe and make good choices. We can give them the tools to enable just that. This discussion is part of those tools. Talking about what has happened to others and why it happened, helps give our young adults the tools.
It isn’t about scaring them to death. It’s about knowledge. Knowledge is power.
When your kids venture outside of the protection of your arms, arm them with knowledge. Along with knowledge, is our instinct. Our instinct is a built in protection mechanism that we were armed with from day one. USE IT. If it feels wrong, believe that instinct and act accordingly.
Arming our children with knowledge, allows us to let them soar solo….
Hoover John
I was being sarcastic.
I WAS KIDDING.
I didn’t even think I needed to explain this.
To Cancon: When all the dust has cleared, I guarantee you that it will be hard interrogation, and not surveillance, that produces the breakthrough in this case. Round the clock, hard-nosed interrogation, with no communication between defendants, so that they cannot coordinate their stories. Especially, where there is a missing teenager who may, or may not be, alive. This isn’t a jewel heist, or an art theft, where we have years and years to methodically follow the suspects. This is a missing persons case, and the Aruban authorities have acted from day one as if they never expected to get Natalee back alive.
elnombre: every little bit may help if placed in the correct context – hense my questions to those who live in Aruba regarding the landscape. we are all searching and praying for Natalee and that should be the focus.
Yeah Arubagirl…I kind of found that out with my own children. When we were in Negril last week and the boys (18 and 19) wanted to go to a club and we checked out the age requirements. My husband accompanied them and stayed in the corner as a “spy”
but when they came back he said no one was even at the door checking ID’s at all and in his opinion a lot of the girls in there were way under 18. (it was Ladies Night, by the way)
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118567845326360.xml&coll=2&thispage=1
I would think that if you looked to be 18, and were a local that you added to the atmosphere of the place. As long as you don’t cause any problems and made sure all the tourist were having a good time, i.e. spending money, then it would be ok to stay. Who would really care if he was 18 as long as everyone was happy and having fun.
Aruba Girl
Covering the news is like making sausage. It is a disgusting process, but with enough production work, it can look and taste delicious.
We are in the sausage stage. If you want to have fun, go find out where the press is, and watch them. You will have 2 or 3 producers running around and the talent sitting. It is a mess.
T
RB, darling,
I’ve gotten in at 17 at clubs as well in the U.S.
Just sayin’
Sorry Arubagirl…I just logged in.
I’ll be guiet now and just read! Promise.
7 or 8 years ago my then 15 year old step daughter went on a chaperoned school Spanish Club trip to Costa Rica. I was shocked to see the photographs she brought back home of her and other high school sophmores dancing and drinking with local men (not boys) in night clubs. In some of the photos, the chaperones were visible. I was not her parent, so there was nothing I could do or say besides vow I’d not let my own kids go on an international trip unsupervised by me.
I’ve always thought it was a recipe for disaster, but the truth is, many hundreds of thousands of kids across the nation have gone on trips like this since my stepdaughter, and probably 99.9% have come home.
What happened to Natalee in Aruba could have happened in the States…basically, a naive young woman disregarded very basic safety rules, putting her in a vulnerable position which allowed her to be ‘culled from the herd’ by predators.
“I’ve gotten in at 17 at clubs as well in the U.S.”
Maybe, maybe not. I happened to be at dinner a couple of weeks ago where 6 guys at a table close to us were arrested for false ID’s.
Where I’m from pllenty of under 21 kids drink and those kids are getting the alcohol from the over 21 crowd that are supposed to be adults.
Arubagirl… I hope that remark was tongue in cheek?
But you do have to agree, the secrecy in which your legal system works leaves for a lot of speculation. Can you really blame people for assuming when no one is telling anyone anything?
My theory is that your legal system is trying desperately to find a good story to protect the rich boys in custody, with help from Papa of course.
Of course, the only reason I am able to come up with a “theory” is because your legal authorities are not providing any information what so ever. And believe me, my theory is mild. I’ll bet there are much worse theories floating around.
Pleasure island. Orlando, FL.
Anything being reported on the radio in Aruba? Is it still raining there?
“My theory is that your legal system is trying desperately to find a good story to protect the rich boys in custody, with help from Papa of course”
Cat, I kinda agree with this, but then I think you’re giving them far too much credit
Catriana:
Of course we arm our children with knowledge! But, we’re all flawed glorious humans…we’re not perfect…we make choices throughout our lives that are wrong. If we didn’t we would never grow and deepen as individuals, we’d be boring robots!
I suspect Natalee thought she was taking a trip to see the lighthouse on her last night in Aruba. If evil had not been lurking…a simple trip to see the lighthouse with some seemingly great local students would have been a sweet memory for Natalee.
HOWEVER, in my opinion the person who committed this crime is the one who made the wrong choice! We always want to blame the victim.
Hmmm, protect the boys because Daddy is a big, wig or solve a crime that is now of international interest no matter who is involved. I’ll go with the latter.
People……this life is not perfect…shit happens!! Everywhere!! who are we to blame?? I only pray that they find her soon..dead or alive. So that we can move on. God bless u all.
Catriana, in all fairness, the rapid deployment of the FBI created some very wild theories (and I DO mean wild) here as well. I think I just need a refill of patience.
::”I think it was common for these boys to hook up with tourists at the bar, who would be leaving the island soon. Foot loose and fancy free living with no boundaries, responsibility and no accountability.”::
Natalie… That is call predators and I believe you hit the nail on the head!
::”I’ve always thought it was a recipe for disaster, but the truth is, many hundreds of thousands of kids across the nation have gone on trips like this since my stepdaughter, and probably 99.9% have come home. “::
Brenda… Ask Natalee’s parents if 99.9 % of them coming home is good enough odds.
“Hmmm, protect the boys because Daddy is a big, wig or solve a crime that is now of international interest no matter who is involved. I’ll go with the latter”
Has anyone else noticed that Daddy doesn’t seem to be in the picture? They report often that Joran’s mother speaks to him…where is Dad?
Covering up his son’s tracks?
Sarah, been to Aruba much?
Arubagirl… Patience? I think we all need some of that today.
I’m sure that we are all just deeply effected by this one families tragedy and emotions are running high all over the internet.
I hope we find Natalee soon. I’m not sure how much more her family and friends can take. It isn’t the knowing that hurts, it’s the not knowing that kills.
Why not Aruba? girls dissappear all the time in the US. For example ISH 45 out of Houston I think there are about 50 cases over the last 50 yrs. But there are no witness in those cases you have three people here that know something.
RB, that’s funny, since in the first few days we were saying the EXACT same thing about Natalee’s dad.
I have been following the news from Curacao and I am very worried about Natalee as well. However, what is up with CNN ????? You don’t have any news so you go make a report about Aruba’s seedy side ? What’s up with that ? Aruba has a seedy side, so what ??? So does Curacao, so does each and every country in the world.
I think that the Aruba police is messing up the investigation at this point but in their defense, this is a high profile case. They are not used to dealing with press like this. I do believe that it is time to start telling everyone what the progress is. Enough with this ‘cannot confirm nor deny’ stuff. The security guards are still in custody. Why ???? Tell us, we want to know….
To the Aruban people, hang in there. This too shall pass. Just hope and pray that the politics involved will stop before damaging this island further.
Nope, but I would love to come someday Arubagirl. I hate that this has happened and hope that it is resolved asap for everyone involved.
Catriana, no I don’t think those are good odds at all when your child is the one not coming home.
I was horrified by the risks that were taken 9 years ago with my stepdaughter, and that same sense of horror has captivated my attention in this case. I have a 19 year old blonde daughter, so like other parents of teenage daughters, this hits close to home.
I guess we are supposed to put our kids in a bubble and not let them do anything or go anywhere without an adult present until they are 21. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Kids can be outside plalying in their own yards and get kidnapped. Kids can go to school and get gunned down with tons of adults present. Natalee’s parents probably felt their daughter was mature and bright enough to go on that trip. yeah Natalee made a wrong choice by going off with the 3 guys but people make wrong choices in their lives all the time young and old alike. For all we know the 3 guys might not even be responsible for her disappearance. Everything is speculation right now.
::”Has anyone else noticed that Daddy doesn’t seem to be in the picture? They report often that Joran’s mother speaks to him…where is Dad?”::
Well, if I were Daddy and was trying to influence things I’d lay low too.
So what is being said about Natalee’s dad on the island?
“RB, that’s funny, since in the first few days we were saying the EXACT same thing about Natalee’s dad.”
WRT Natalee, biological or step parent? I do know they arrived at different times.
While we’re at it, is Joran’s father actually on the island?
I agree
Maybe like father like son?
Brenda… I hear you!
If there are elections in Aruba a good idea might be to kick out Dutchboys dad!
Let the voice of the people speak!
Natalee’s dad is there and has been reported to have been with the FBI yesterday AND is apparently taking a very active role in the search and investigation.
Where are the dogs are there any ?
Sorry to add this grisly note, but in a tropical climate, critical forensic evidence is lost in a matter of days. Yes, dried blood retains its integrity, but that only matters if the girl was shot or caused to bleed in some other way. Perhaps the 10 day delay in rounding up the three suspects had a purpose.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/
Natalee Holloway Update: 11:20 AM Sunday, June 12, 2005
Van der Straten said there is additional evidence beyond statements from the three teenagers that implicates John and Jones, but he would not elaborate.
I think this was planned from the beginning, no doubt in my mind!
Arubagirl-
95.1 is broadcasting about the case now. Can you brief us on what it’s about?
Thanks
Yeah I saw a TV interview with Natalee’s dad who said he is out with the searchers every day because he cannot bear to sit in a hotel room and wait. I wonder since he is out with police every day, if they are keeping him better updated than they are Natalee’s mom and step-dad (according to them)?
What is is like around the lighthouse? Is there a beach or is it rocky terrain? Is it on a cliff? Don’t have such like that here in Arkansas.
::”I guess we are supposed to put our kids in a bubble and not let them do anything or go anywhere without an adult present until they are 21.”::
No, Boston. That is not what we should do or what we are suppose to do. That wouldn’t be living. I do have to say, I think that Natalee and her parents lived in the illusion bubble. Two bubbles actually…. the “it can’t happen to us” bubble and the “nothing happens in Aruba” bubble.
Sadly.
It was mentioned earlier by Natalee’s friend that Joran has a yaht (or however you spell it) Could he have possibly taken her on his yaht? Aruba you mentioned that there was a cave you can repel down (hole?), I’m guessing you are unable to see the bottom of it by just looking down, Have they checked the bottom of the caves to make sure she wasn’t pushed over or something? I know these are awful theories, but they should be checked just to rule them out.
I don’t think we can sit here and assign blame to anyone but the perpertrators of the as of yet undefined crime. However, there is a set of circumstances that created the opportunity for predators to swoop in on and victimize this girl.
1) The environment of alcohol, possibly drugs, and permissiveness enabled lowered defenses
2) Very basic safety rules (don’t leave with strangers, friends don’t let friends leave with strangers) were disregarded
3) Very little/no supervision
Do you know if blood samples are taken from surface or do they actually cut out fabric as you see on tv. Would it be possible to cover human blood with animal blood and pass DNA testing
Hello everyone. I discoverd scared monkey last evening after having becoming mesmerized by the Natalee Holloway case. I am a former resident of Birmingham (76-92).
I “lurked” for several hours last evening/early morning and was astounded at the quality of the posts. Congratulations! I thought the case was almost solved at about 4am this morning.
‘m sorry… this stinks of “special blonde sydrome.” this woman turns out to not be as perfect as everyone has claimed, has she. they teach children not to get in cars with a stranger- let alone 3. is their a correlation between forgetting this rule and increased curricular difficult? just ask yourself this.. from an integrity/character standpoint: what sort of person gets drunk and slips into a truck with 3 guys she hasn’t known more than a few days to go to a deserted beach. as someone stated previously, if this had been an african-american, any other monority, or an Aruban that was abducted in Oakland, CA, the press would not give 1/8 of a shit…. but give us a blonde.. and America comes to it’s knees to pray; the media sparks up: “yeah baby…. there’s money to be made on this one!!!” American’s a sucker for “perfect blondes” with halos around their virgin souls.
Day 12. We are just now analyzing blood evidence from Van der Sloot’s automobile. Evidence that was there from Day One. I would be interested to see what valuable “surveillance” information was gathered in the 10 days before these boys were arrested. It had better be good.
“they teach children not to get in cars with a stranger- let alone 3.”
18 is not considered a child in this country. Assignating a victim’s character won’t bring about the truth.
Sam…as the mom of 3 blondes (and being a blonde myself) that was kind of harsh. Maybe it is more that, her being a recent HS grad and about to embark on a promising future, she has touched many people since Natalee could easily be THEIR daughter?
Your right!
“If there are elections in Aruba a good idea might be to kick out Dutchboys dad! ”
Why do hou assume he did it? There are other suspects.
BTW In the dutch systems only politicians are elected. Not the people who work for the Court.
Offcourse the two guards are still suspects…. and offcourse they don’t have waterproof alibis… otherwise they wouldn’t be in custody….
All-
95.1 is in English now.
I think Natalee’s family demanded this attention and called anyone and everyone they new in order to get the ball rolling so they could find their daughter. ANY family would do the same for their missing child.
I’m loving Top 95.1
Go to http://www.arubadag.com and click on TOP FM 95 andd listen english tarnsmission now!!
My son is 21 and is serving his country in Iraq. He is a US MARINE..part of the 1/6 h&S unit. Two of the men in his unit were killed this week by an IED. Do you suppose if my son came up missing in Iraq..the FBI would come en force and try to find him??? We still have POWs and MIAs missing from previous conflicts.Are they not Americans missing on foreign soil. I smell a rat??? Today people love to sensationalize..remember folks we have a war going on..pray for all American overseas.
“what sort of person gets drunk and slips into a truck with 3 guys she hasn’t known more than a few days to go to a deserted beach. ”
Sam, perhaps one who is drugged.
We don’t elect our judges here (not that he’s a judge, but anyway), they are appointed by the crown. Want to take this up with Queen Beatrix?
Arubagirl-
Juan ? (95.1) makes some good points about reporters!
Al.com has a pretty good article about the gambling in the HI casino between some of the boys on the trip andJoran and his friends. Seems drinking at the tables before noon was commonplace and that some of the Alabama guys got into an altercation with Joran. You’d think if this was true natalee’s friends would have gone to one of the chaperones and alerted them to the fact that their friend left with this guy.
Wow Sam, that was not very nice– and un called for!
As for everyone blaming chaperones, friends or Natalee herself, I’m sure I not only speak for myself when I say that we have all done stupid things in our lives that could have ended up tragically, but luckily, didn’t. Natalee, it looks like, probably wasn’t as lucky. With that said, all of you saying that Natalee was partly responsible for leaving with the men, partying, etc.– how do you know that she wasn’t drugged and not in control of her actions/decisions?
What the Queens number?
In papiamento they said that the tourists that are here are busy having fun in the nightclubs, etc.
I’m sorry, but heeeheee.
Jerry, did you read the part where he’s not a judge?
They’re talking now about the case where a body was washed up in three suitcases.
No, I keep hearing he’s a High Ranking Official or Judge
The body in the 3 suitcases was in Delaware– wife was arrested in NJ
Drugs I bet?
Kuaitzu.. I will keep your son and his fellow soldiers in my thoughts and prayers.
There is a huge difference between a recent graduate of high school heading out to a tropical island to enjoy some relaxation and a 21 year old soldier who volunteered to protect their country with the full knowledge of the possibility of being sent to a war zone.
Your comparison is not a very good one. I’m equally sure that our government does whatever they can to find our pow’s and return them to us.
I’m seriously falling in love with Top 95.1.
This is not a situation involving only 18 yr old naive young girls. I was on a “girls trip” a few years ago with all the women on my street…ALL married…all with children. The very first night one of the women “hooked up” with a local and his cousin at, YES C&C’s, and she was gone overnight. I was up all night worried to death but some of the others just kept saying it was fine. She did return the next day but when she then left and stayed gone the rest of our trip I washed my hands of it.
18 or 30…bad judgement knows no age boundaries. The woman on my trip could have been in the same situation as Natalee. That’s a chance you take when you get in a car, leave, etc. with strangers. We begin teaching our children at young ages what “strangers” are and it has been proven that we are not doing a very good job at it since, when tested, the kids seem to talk to the “stranger” anyway. Plus, how do you teach them what a dangerous stranger looks like? You can’t! Joran was a clean cut good looking guy so I am sure Natalee felt safe…and she forgot all about all the lessons her parents probably taught her about strangers.
“In papiamento they said that the tourists that are here are busy having fun in the nightclubs, etc. ”
Let’s see if you laugh about the diminished US tourist presence in couple months if this thing is still going on. There’s precedence for that, BTW, in how the American public reacted to France’s comments about the US 2 years ago – even though most American’s didn’t agree with the Bush adminsitration, they liked less France’s less-than-positive statement about the US.
What about drugs, Jerry?
Re: “I’m seriously falling in love with Top 95.1. ”
Think Juan would interview Heroaldo on 95.1?
RB, we’ll deal with it.
The U.S. isn’t the only resilient country in the whole wide world.
Arubagirl: And well they should. No reason for Natalee’s disappearance to run their vacation.
Hee, flash.
Kuaitza
First, thank you for raising a son who is serving his country. You should be very proud and brave.
However, your son does not need the FBI. If a marine went missing in IRAQ he would have 230 YEARS of MARINES working around the clock to find him. The MARINES do not lose people . Some may give their lives on the field, but they always come home.
The FBI can not hold a candle to the MARINES, and you should be very proud that he is a man enough to be a Marine.
Tom
Emphasis was intented.
Another Drug related murder! Aruba Girl
Completely agree with you whodeenie.
Jerry, wouldn’t know about it. This happened in the U.S.
No, I’m sure we’re not, Arubagirl. But I’m afraid your government knows better – when you’re only roughly the size of Boulder, Colorado every tourist (and their money)counts.
::”Plus, how do you teach them what a dangerous stranger looks like? You can’t!”::
So true. But what you can do is teach our young adults what a dangerous SITUATION looks like. As we are doing here, with our discussion of the events leading up to this tragedy. One of the things that this situation is teaching our young people is exactly what you just said, “Joran was a clean cut good looking guy so I am sure Natalee felt safe…”, that you can’t judge anyones goodness by their looks. You can, however, learn how to recognize BS when you hear it. I’ll bet Joran is a smooth talking manipulator.
Teach your children that predators come in all shapes, colors and sizes! And if that isn’t enough, teach them that if it sounds too good to be true, it’s probably NOT true.
What has Aruba been tolerating for years?
Yea , When and Where di this happen , was that around Texas?
“The FBI can not hold a candle to the MARINES, and you should be very proud that he is a man enough to be a Marine.”
Well said Tom. I have a Nephew and a very close friend also serving in Iraq. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Yes, we know that. RB I’m not saying that tourism isn’t going to go down. I’m saying that we can survive it.
Jerry, how the hell do I know this? Ask someone in TX.
They are looking at this as a promotional tool?
Sarah, American tourists.
Well I thought you just read it somewhere?
Have we been that bad Arubagirl?
They’re saying that in spite of all the bad promotion, nobody seems to have canceled their trip
Annoying, Sarah, your countrymen can be very annoying.
Has the young lady who was purportedly on the trip and who was on late last evening checked in today?
I thought she was very credible and I think the baord was helpful to her. She used the name —
I have never been to aruba but saw some pictures and it looks beautiful. would like to go there someday.
And you’re entitled to your view, Arubagirl. I wager, however, while YOU might be able to, the average Aruban can’t. Forgive me, but economically 80% of Aruba’s economic stability is based on tourism – even a moderate drop will be devastating. Numbers don’t lie.
board, not baord.
Some of them annoy the shit out of me too Arubagirl.
If I never hear the words “But I’m an American” ever again, I’ll die happy.
Hee Sarah. Good to know that it happens in the States too. Somtimes we wonder if they leave they’re good manners and driving sense back in the States.
Just because the Dutch/Aruban judicial/investigative process/procedures differ from those in the US, do not make them sub-ppar. As cancon indicated, FOX had a detective on last night who stated that Aruba’s was top notch. It has been said and stated by the Arubans that there are only a few who are directly involved with the investigation, who are truly in the know.
Anyone watch that new TV show on Thursdays called “Hit Me Baby One More Time”? It is the one where former bands play their hit song. Audience rates which band did the best job and winner has $ donated to their favorite charity.
I saw last weeks. The performers included The Knack, Vanilla Ice, The Motels and Haddaway. I thought the show was great. Loved The Knack. Anyone else see it?
Sven
Opened the phone lines again. This is an example of my countrymen annoying the bejeesus out of me.
I, for one, would still feel comfortable visiting Aruba. I mean if all foreigners refused to come to the US because of unsolved murders, police botching investigations, we would have zero tourists.
Arubagirl…you will be the first person I contact when I get there! If everyone in Aruba is as nice as you, then it must be a great place.
Conversly, arubagirl, the U.S. is otherwise an “extremely” charitable country, in ways the rest of the world is mostly unaware.
Aww, thanks, Kerin. I don’t consider myself to be that nice (just ask RB).
I’m sure lots of folks travel to places like Aruba to “let their hair down,” and act like idiots. They would never act like that at home. It’s the old “what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas,” except it happens in Aruba or where ever.
“They’re saying that in spite of all the bad promotion, nobody seems to have canceled their trip”
They won’t immediately cancel. It’s the bookings for future trips that will drop if the situation continues as it is. The whole “tourists are in the clubs having fun” reporting is to keep morale among locals high, given the gravity of the current situation and the fear the tourism will drop.
It might be annoying, Arubagirl, but so be it.
Good point, whodeenie. Very true. I know that after 9/11 (perhaps cliche, I know), I was brought to tears more than once by the actions of your contrymen as well.
It’s just that roughly 10% can be oh so annoying here. And of course, we focus on that.
Yea Aruba cursed at me a while ago? Wheres your manners.
RB, yeah, I know. But we’ll survive (and I’m starting to sound like Aretha Franklin here).
:::arubagirl Says: June 12th, 2005 at 1:35 pm “Annoying, Sarah, your countrymen can be very annoying.”::::
But, have not doubt Sarah, while the Aruban people might find you and your countrymen “annoying” they have absolutely no problem taking the American’s money!!! Sounds like, they are actually laughing all the way to bank, too.
Arubagirl-
I’ll agree. Every trip out of the US I’ve seen the Ugly Americans and wanted to separate myself from them. Also seen Ugly Others as well.
“Aww, thanks, Kerin. I don’t consider myself to be that nice (just ask RB). ”
That implies I care whether you are nice or aren’t, Arubagirl. As far as an Internet messageboard, I don’t.
Jerry checking under my desk…Nope, not there either
RB, yeah, I know. But we’ll survive (and I’m starting to sound like Aretha Franklin here).
That would be Gloria Gaynor. : )
Bama: why don’t send me the whole dream. Often the images are symbols and the confirmation is not literal, sometimes it is. You can also post it to http://spaces.msn.com/members/dimitrihalley
there you will find more dreams with Natalee.
Oh yeah, I’ve seen ugly Dutch, Latin Americans, French…
Golden, crawling under my desk now
Oops.
flash.. OMG, not the Ugly Other ones!!!
How come we have not seen any interviews with the chaperons? Does anyone know their names?
Deputy
Arubagirl…just don’t get frustrated like yesterday and leave! The board was not the same without your native perspective.
Usually everyone has a different perseption of themselves then what is for real! Ugly or Nice , Whatever>
Arubagirl, when the three young, rich and lighter boys were released and the 2 darker and older men were arrested, was there a negative reaction on the island?
The chaperones are being left alone, as are her friends. That’s the way it should be.
The idea that tourists in any significant numbers would cancel their trips to Aruba over this one incident is just silly. I appreciate the frustration, though.
How come we have not seen any interviews with the chaperons? Does anyone know their names?
Deputy
Aww, thanks, I’m more calm now. Except if people start using the word cover-up. THen I’m going to start firing with both barrels.
Let’s not forget, as I said before…
We are all members of the Human Race, where we live is just geography!
Cat-
“flash.. OMG, not the Ugly Other ones!!! ”
Yeah, seems like there are a**holes wherever you’re from.
Sarah, if you’re taking this from the race perception, the disgust has been slowly building. But at that particular point, people were puzzled, but didn’t start yelling ‘racism’…. yet.
Has the young lady who was purportedly on the trip and who was on late last evening checked in today?
I thought she was very credible and I think the board was helpful to her. She used the name —–
Yeah, yeah Catriana but we both know this is not how everyone views this.
mbhs05…I hope you were able to get some sleep last night. Very important right now for you guys to stay strong as a community.
From an American perspective you have to realize that 70% to 80% of the prisons are filled with black americans.
I agree…I’ve been on Benedryl for a bad allergic reaction (I’m allergic to everything) so I had to miss church…sigh…but at least I got some sleep. I’m going tonight…hopefully if we pray enough something good will happen…
I was just wondering if there was a reaction from the island. Not just race but maybe between those who have and those who have none or very little. I’m from the South, remember?
“Except if people start using the word cover-up.”
Below is from an AP Breaking News site:
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) – Island residents attended church services Sunday to pray for a break in the case of a missing Alabama honors student, which just the day before had appeared close to being solved after one of three young men in custody told police that “something bad happened” to the girl.
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBVHWTGV9E.html
Now whatkind of coverup is that? Thank you to the “people” of Aruba.
whodeenie, didn’t follow that one at all. You mind that we were having a mass?
ArubaGirl: I had asked this earlier but don’t know if you saw it. Are the “3″ really rich as everyone seems to think or are they more middle class. It appears as though you have been in the States so if you could answer using US standards I’d appreciate it.
Same answer there, Sarah. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
To Arubagirl: If someone uses the word cover-up, don’t take it as a personal insult, unless your father — or some other family member — is working on the case. Every police department is ultimately accountable for their ability to take control of a case, and native Arubans should be just as concerned as American tourists. After all, you have to live there 365 days a year. And even dark-skinned natives should be concerned, if dark-skinned natives are being made into scapegoats. So far, the record ain’t all that good, at least as far as this case is concerned. Whether that is attributable to corruption, incompetence, or lack of talent I do not know. But we had 3 young men who danced free for 10 full days, after telling a story with more inconsistencies than a drunken sailor’s directions to the local bar. Get real.
mbhs..I can relate to the allergy thing and in the South there is always something to be allergic to.
You guys just keep the prayers coming for Natalee. The power of prayer has resulted in more than one miracle and I am sure they can be felt by Natalee and her entire family.
a.g. not not at all. My point was, that if the “people” are praying for Natalee, I do not see a coverup occuring.
::”From an American perspective you have to realize that 70% to 80% of the prisons are filled with black americans.”:::
Could that possibly be because those individuals committed the crimes? If black people want to stay out of prison, stop committing crimes. Wow, what a concept.
I think a more accurate statistic would be 90% to 95% of those on prison have committed crimes. How many of those criminals are black, white, yellow, red or any other color doesn’t really matter.
Sheeshhh!!!!
This time the allergy was from a tetanus shot…don’t ask, I don’t know how I can be allergic to a tetanus shot, but the doctor says I am…Kerin-That we are! Get all your friends to pray too…the more the better…
Cancun, v/d Sloot, who everyone seems to be concentrating, is prob. upper middle class. I’m guessing his father earns about $70,000 max per year (taking the $1=afl. 1.80 exchange rate). I think it’s more in the $55.000 range. It’s a lot of money by Aruban standards, but I doubt that they’re millionares.
As for the Suriname brothers, don’t know. They own a car-rental, but I don’t know how profitable that business is. I’ve never heard of the Kalpoe family either before this.
oooohhhh, sorry, I’m getting somewhat tired here.
I would think that a car rental place on the island would do pretty well. Are the two security men doing as well financially?
It s a matter of statistics , no racial implication ment. Its a fact
any thing happening ?
Sarah, there are many many many many car-rentals here.
Sarah, they lost their job a few days before this whole thing went down.
Thank for the information. That is what I thought and I am sure teachers there are as underpaid as they are here.
Nothing, Rob.
“If black people want to stay out of prison, stop committing crimes. Wow, what a concept.”
Catrianna, would you say it’s possible to “buy” your freedom? Are you more likely to go free in the U.S. if you are wealthy?
Looks like things are moving pretty slowly. I’m going to take off for a while. Have a great day Arubagirl. Thanks for keeping us informed. Talk to ya’ll later.
Guys, nothing is on the radio, unless you like carnival musc, and I just started talking to my dad in English, causing him to give me a WTF? look, so I’m going to take a break.
See y’all in an hour or so.
thank you
Something that has never been clear to me….
Joran, et al ,claim 1 (one) black man in a black shirt and radio (implying HI security guard) picked Natalee up after she would not accept their help.
Why are 2 (two) black men in custody?
The picked Mickey and Abraham u at the same time so they could not have ratted on the other.
Any explanations?
The cousin of one of the 2 last night on Geraldo also said they were friends…which was news to me.
To Just Wondering: Good question. Why two security guards, and not one? I have seen no explanation anywhere.
I guess it’s possible there was only 1 guy – but the 2 were in cahoots.
Who the heck knows?
According to reports and his wife, Abraham Jones went to work that Monday morning.
1 guy at the HI, I meant.
::”Catrianna, would you say it’s possible to “buy” your freedom? Are you more likely to go free in the U.S. if you are wealthy?”:::
No, you aren’t more likely to go free if you are wealthy. I won’t say it’s impossible to buy off a jury (as it’s been done by organized crime), but it is extremely difficult and one would usually get caught.
In the United States, you are more likely to go free if you have stupid people sitting on the jury (ie: OJ’s trial). In America, you have the right to be tried in front of a jury of your peers. Unfortunately, jurors don’t have to have any training or smarts. So, guilty people go free and equally unfortunate, at times innocent people get jailed.
As I recall, Van Der Sloot and his two companions said that the security guard had a black Holiday Inn uniform. But neither of the two black men arrested have ever worked for Holiday Inn. They worked for another hotel, nearby. So, why are they holding these two men?
The HI uniforms are white shirts/black pants. So, if indeed the guy had black shirt/black pants, speculation is could be a security guard for being-renovated hotel or security guard for music festival going on that night. But nobody knows what the evidence is for holding them.
HI uniform was not indicated. HI uniforms have a white shirt and if they played cards there often, they would know that. I’d like to know more about the SBF guards (who did have black uniforms) who were staying at the HI. Such as: how long were they there, did they cover the festival in shifts and when/how did they leave the Island.
Catriana……..Please allow me to assist you with the vast amount of mis-information which you have been diddeminating regarding the topic of extradition. AS a practicing attorney in the US for th last 23 years, I can assure you and others that extradition is controlled by “convention” and “treaty” between nations. There are numerous instances of extradition of citizens of non-US countries being extraditied to the US to be tried BY the US courts for violations of US laws which have taken place OUTSIDE of the US, for any number of various reasons. Extradition is no longer a “foreign” concept to international justice. Extradition between countries takes place on a regular basis in this day and age, and for many crimes which are FAR less than capital crimes in either country. Feel free to browse the following link…….I’ll follow up shortly for all with an extradition “primer” to dispel further “myths”:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3197223
aruba and the us indeed have such a treaty.. mainly to combat the war on drugs.. but there are some overlapping issues
Please pardon my typo on the last post on the word “disseminating”. Here is a US Department of Justice Memo on the issue of “Extradition for your reading pleasure.
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/readingroom/interextra.htm
lol
Anyone look at Van Der Sloots Brother- Valentijn ? He states on his tickle post under “business” that he is a”pimp.”
i asked that question 3 days ago….hello authorities!
i running a better investagation with no interragation s, no forensics, no suspects.. and no heresay…..im off site and i think i know more.. hahahahahaah
why arent they giving everyone at the HI an anal?
Well, well… John! As a practicing attorney for the last 23 years, would you say that these 3 young men being held have a risk of extradition to the US? Or would that fear, that so many have mentioned, be unlikely or remote?
BTW, you have told us you have been a practicing attorney for the past 23 years, but the fact remains that you have no idea who I am, what I do or what I know. Do you?
I never claimed to be an expert on extradition, I merely shared my understanding of how the process worked. I’m sure most net surfers know better than taking any one persons word for anything and would verify the information through independent sources of their choosing.
Apparently my understanding of how it works was mistaken. Thank you for those links.
“No, you aren’t more likely to go free if you are wealthy.”
Catrianna, puhleeez.
So, a poor defendant, who, out of necessity, due to the inability to afford an attorney, is just as likely to go free as a wealthy defendant who can afford the better attorney?
I think you know better. But I digress and we are slightly off topic. Agree to disagree.
I have been reading the postings on this website now for a week and feel that I need to say something. I will use the word “situation” to refer to Natalee’s disappearance not with disrespect to her but to use less words to describe this whole thing. I believe most people posting here have valid points. I do not agree with the idiots who claim that she deserved this. No means no and what you wear doesn’t factor into rape if in fact this situation ends I wouldn’t be happy at all with the school if I found out that the school trip that my underage daughter went on consisted of the antics that occured, ie: drinking, casino and bar hopping, and running around in guys’ cars at 1am in the morning, etc. That is an issue that I would definitely address with the school and chaparones as soon as this situation is resolved, whether the results were good or bad. I pray for her safe return but being realistic, I know that may not happen. Having said these things, I will move on to my point.
I am an American living on a small Caribbean island where is little or no crime. I agree with Dr. Baden’s opinion that “there is a great pressure to not convict local people”. If somthing like this happened here, there would also be conflicting stories from law enforcement and the government as there is in Aruba. A darker skinned person would probably be arrested before a born local would be. They wouldn’t be very accomodating to the family as to protect their local people and tourism reputation. I’m not trying to offend anyone but this is how it is in the islands and most expats will tell agree. Most local island people (any island) will be offended by this comment and I’m sorry.
One prime example of conflicting stories from a Caribbean island is the way that the Cayman Islands government portrayed Grand Cayman after Hurricane Ivan. That island was basically destroyed and they did everything that they could to squelch the truth so no one would remove their money from the banks and the tourism wouldn’t suffer.
I believe this is all I have to say for now. We will probably never know the truth about what happened to Natalee and they may never find her body. This is an avenue of thinking that we all most explore.
Whatever happened to Amy Bradley? That story just “went away” and we never found out what happened and she has never been found.
::”There are numerous instances of extradition of citizens of non-US countries being extraditied to the US to be tried BY the US courts for violations of US laws which have taken place OUTSIDE of the US, for any number of various reasons.”::
John, if you re-read my posts, I believe that is exactly what I said. That a person can be extraditied to the US to be tried BY the US courts for VIOLATIONS OF US LAWS which have taken place OUTSIDE of the US… etc”.
I don’t see that these three young men violated any US LAWS, do you?
While waiting news last night about Natalee, MSNBC had on an “Invesigates” story about very pretty, very blonde Martha Moxley who was a very wealthy 15 year old girl killed my a golf club outside of her home in very wealthy Greenwich CT. 1st they tried to go after a tutor in the home of a neighbor, then a mysterious drifter was the object of the investigation.
Finally it was the wealthy neighbor, nephew of Ethel Kennedy, Robert Kennedy’s wife who was convicted.
It seemed like evidence from the get go that it was either he or his brother who did the crime…..
Of course it took 27 years (that’s right years) for him to get convicted and only because the discgraced Mark Fuhrman from the OJ trial was trying to redeem himself from his humiliation.
My point is …….. money matters.
I am seeing a lot of the same blather coming out of Aruba.
My the tourist $$$ will get them moving sooner, but picking up 2 black men when Joran and the others said 1 man is a bad omen.
Remember:
Laci Peterson = Hispanic men in truck
Smith who drove her kids into lake = black man
Runaway bride = Hispanic man
None, of course, true…….
The perceptions of a few, does not mean that everyone looks at things that way. We are human. Humans err.
Catriana…….While I have no idea whatsoever “what you do”, “who you are” or “What you know”, I merely observed what you “didn’t” know…….. Here is an example of one of our Extradition Treaties with another country:
http://usembassy.or.cr/exttreatyeng.html
Well I am pretty sure we can all (Black Guys) sit back and breathe a sigh of relief since we know the Aruban Black security guards were not driving around the island with a bloodied Honda.
So many of you have screamed for justice for this young woman but I wonder how many of you would accept responsibility if God forbid some “inspired” idiot acted on the two guards before we found out the truth…..and yes I believe the truth is the three prominent guys did it and did it all without any contact with the guards. How many of you outraged “citizens” would’ve helped or stood by if mob action on the guards had occured?
I wish all young American women would open their eyes and see the world as it really is. You can’t believe in the blond, blue-eyed, crew-cut as a safe harbor. Men are men and we come in many different packages BAD and good. I really believe this same young woman would’ve exercised more caution if not common sense if this guy looked like the guards. I doubt she’d left the bar with them and I doubt she’d have sat in the back of a car kissing one of them while the other sat upfront and watched.
The people who use this case to talk about O.J. are the same kind of people who gave him the out in the first place. Any rational Black person knows O.J. did it but how could you convict him when a clear and devout racist led his investigation? Michael Jackson is a pedophile (in my opinion) and I would vote to convict if I were on the jury
but for some reason no Blacks were selected (so don’t blame us if he walks).
The sad fact is Ms. Holloway made a serious judgement error that she probably made because she consumed a little too much to drink and maybe thought just one more adventure before her flight the next morning would be a lasting memory. She is the victim and she bears no blame but young White women please open your eyes and see the content of the man not just his class or color. I just bet if the two guards would’ve came upon Ms. Holloways situation before it’s finality, they would’ve secured her saftey and given the snot-nosed, spoiled, rapist(s) the attention they surely received before the Aruban police decided to take a second look at their 3 “witnesses”.
I come from a land where husbands murder their pregnant wives and dump the bodies in the ocean. I come from a land where husbands lie to their wives and when caught shoot them in their sleep and dump the body in a landfill. I come from a land where 12 year old girls strangle their mother’s and White boys from good homes shoot up their High Schools because of tragic geekdom. My point is some of you are calling for Aruba to pay a price for this crime when none of the purps are even Aruban. How many of you have sold your homes and moved to the secure safety of Canada since Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, Catholic pedophile priests, or the gay scout masters have been exposed?
GIVE ARUBA A BRAKE AND STOP HATIN’
Brac Girl.
I do not agree with everything you said, but you had a great point in talking about making the news not affect tourism.
That is why it is always sunny in the US Virgin Islands.
I hope that the family members can persuade Mrs. Twitty to return to her home in Alabama.
It is unconscionable what has been done to this family, however millions of families all over the world have been devastated by powerful business interests for many many years, and while it is understandably distressing to Americans for this to happen to their countrymen, and relatively affluent countrymen at that, it seems that at this point it is clear that the events related to Natalee involve larger issues and entities.
From just a glance at message boards relating to tourism, it does not appear that Aruba is suffering in that regard, and most people, even in the US, understand that the island is not to “blame” for this tragedy. The best thing that Aruba could do for its image at this point is to free the two low income immigrant men who were seized a couple of weeks ago. That would send a very clear message that Aruba insists on maintaining its own dignity, and a certain level of autonomy, despite the unfortunate circumstances it finds itself in. There is no reason that the US should object to this. Mickey and Abraham can be of no strategic use to the US, its allies, or any sensitive business interests at this point.
A few Americans who are upset with Aruban authorities might wish to recall that the US has been involved on an unusually close and intense level in this case, and that Aruba itself is a Netherlands “dependency,” thus critics might be criticizing entities that they would not wish to criticize.
It appears that the media has been invited to focus on the many other issues of interest to the American audience, as opposed to poking around at doors that it is not likely either their parent corporations, nor their sponsors would wish perused, and as events unfold, I believe that we will see the US media, at least, heeding this wise counsel.
Those given to pondering may wish to contemplate the implications of those larger issues, but this particular board might not be the best forum for that. I am confident that the administrators will invite such discussion, should it be desired.
Ok, I have to post a reply to ScaredBlackGuy:
Aruba will suffer from this. What tourist is going to go to a Caribbean island where the law enforcement and government will side with the local and wealthy people living there to protect their precious tourism? It is the only way that most of these islands survive: tourism.
Thanks Tom for your reply. I appreciate your diplomacy and agree to disagree with you!!
Catriana………If this girl was, in fact, the victim of a homicide or kidnapping, and can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, at a “bare minimum”, the perpetrator could be charged under USC, 42, 1983., in addition to criminal violations under Title 18, US Code.
ScaredBlackMan
Justice nomatter who it is will suffice to me . The 3 rich kids should pay that is enough for me if found guilty. But that is the problem can they be found guilty without a body. Can anyone be found guilty without a body?
Catriana……Do I think that any of this will happen………Not much chance !
bracgirl,
I’m not sure but I think we are the same side. I don’t think Aruba should be penalized for this crime period. Stuff happens, and I thought I pointed out some of the real crazy things that happen here in the States. Just today a woman on a day tour of NYC was shot in Manhattan, so where are you completely safe?
As far as the two Security guards. There were some thefts at the hotel from some of the students. Cameras, electronics and stuff. The two were reportly witnessed on site by the pool asking if the girls needed help in going to look for their cameras and that they had flashlights. No one accepted their invitation. When their homes were searched the cameras were recovered.
That has led to some suspicion.
Can anyone be found guilty without a body?
Jerry,
Sure, they do it all the time over here with what they call “a preponderance of evidence”. Blood in a car you used to drop off a person later missing if not dead makes me stay with you until the evidence shows me otherwise. Besides their youth will make it easy to get to the truth.
Apparently if the boys are telling the truth the best thing for them would have been to escort their date to her room at the end of the night. But the door is wide open as to who is connected to who know.
Tom……….Are you there ?
ScaredBlackGuy:
We are probably on the same side. I really don’t think that Aruba should suffer from this but they might because people will be scared. In other words, trying to protect their tourism by conflicting reports and people feeling like they’re not releasing the truth will scare more people from their island than it would had they been truthful and arrested the 3 guys from the beginning. Whew…..what a sentence!
Jerry,
I hope you are not saying there is reasonable doubt in your mind as to who cause bodily harm to Ms. Holloway.
To Bad Boy: “This has led to some suspicion.” Suspicion of what? We are not talking about stealing cameras, here. We are talking about kidnapping and possibly murder. Maybe we should arrest the bartender who overcharged for a couple of drinks, while the girls were intoxicated. The sheer flimsiness of the evidence against the two black security guards who were arrested immediately, and the overwhelming weight of the evidence agains the other 3 who were allowed to go free for 10 days boggles the mind.
bracgirl,
Point taken. Most of us are guilty of “doing a dance” for the almighty dollar though. I think the biggest mistake was not being upfront with the parents, it looked terrible when Geraldo broke the news of the blood in the Honda to the parents.
Larry,
Here here.
Scared Black Guy
It could have been more than the Three boys is all I am saying.
Larry,
I second that.
ScaredBlackGuy;
I agree
No, they never stated what hotel uniform it was, besides guards all over the island have standard uniforms. they said it was a black shirt and pants with the words SECURITY on the back. I would say that is the cheapest guard uniform around. The blood is not related to the case, so I heard right here, by dan rhiel.
Catriana………Must apologize ! Intent was not to be abrasive, simply to clarify some issues. I think we’re on the same page…….I just wish this was resolved already……….I think it’s getting to everyone that’s read or listened to any of it ! I feel so terrible for the parents, family, friends, the people of Aruba………….and Natalee Holloway, of course. No parent should ever have to endure the death of a child.
Of course I do not know the details. The fact is they were both there. They were witnessed trying to lure some of the girls away from the hotel. Don’t you think that is at least enough suspicion to hold them?
Jerry,
Yes that is true but I know for sure I want the three that she left C & C’s with. I know for sure I want to trace every step they made from the time they left the bar to the time they reported to school.
John:
I believe in previous posts that you stated that you’re a lawyer in Houston, correct? What part?
One thing you must understand: In aruba gossip flies at tremendous speed and information get’s distorted at tremendous rates. The police have a spokesman who has not divulged anything, hence reporters are sleeping at the steps of his home. If at least one of those reporter makes a statement calling it breaking news it is likely to be spread around as the truth. We are plaged my sensationalistic news coverage especially radio stations and local newspapers such as diario. I hope you all decide to just wait out the police report it will come out soon enough.
Her family is completely up to date with what the police is doing, I figure they disclose information only to them. and ABC News reported that “”We think she’s alive,” said Holloway’s stepmother, Robin Holloway, who added that authorities told the family they had expanded the search to other nearby islands.”
I believe that when the time comes all will be revealed. I’m on aruba too, I follow the case too, It is frustrating to hear rumors spreading. We were contacted within minutes of the alleged confession. Hence, if there was a confession, where is the body. Her family notified that no body was found even 2 days after, there’s still no body.
To Cautivo:
So we are talking international conspiracy here!
You have kicked it up a notch, no doubt………
BracGirl……………Westside…………Galleria (Post Oak)
We were all raised with an idea of what evil looks like. It is hard to believe that evil can hide behind the face of one that looks like a neighbor or someone nice that you meet. Look at Ted Bundy, Scott Peterson, O.J. Simpson or any number of attractive folks that have committed horrible, brutal acts on others. Not all evil looks like Charles Manson. It’s easier to catch a fly with honey, or to bait a poor, defenseless girl with a blond haired, blue eyed boy.
Cathy,
If you believe the blood in the Honda means nothing or is not related to the case, you’d think three new guy friends taking a blond bombshell on a ride after she consumed too much to drink, means nothing either, even though they separated her from her friends?
It is a coincidence that Condi Rice speech on Human Traficking was on 6/3/05 right after Natalee disappeared.
It is not a topic most, at least most in the US, think about.
Cathy:
I’m not sure I agree with you. Rumors are one thing and the US news does not print rumors. They may not report the whole truth sometimes but they are supposed to check their stories before reporting on them. It does seem to me that when they report a story that the Aruban gov’t or police says is a rumor at the time, does come out to be the truth a few days later. Please explain that to me.
Sarah,
On Target.
Beyond the realism that this investigation was botched from the beginning, the two attorneys keep saying “he is innocent” Carlo for the Joran V and the one for the 2 brothers should be saying “they” wouldn’t you think?
Murder is murder, doesn’t matter who was drinking. A crime is a crime, and no one should be above the law. Its a shame that the employees will feel the effect of the many americans that will no longer travel to Aruba.
John:
I am originally from Kingwood.
Regardless of all the false reporting and speculation, one FACT that remains is:
They left CnC’s at 1:30am and dropped off Nat at the HI at 2:00am. In the span of just a half an hour they claim to have driven to the beach at the lighthouse where Nat and Van Der Sleaze made out in the backseat then drove back to hotel. Seems pretty far fetched huh ? I believe that is a lie and their credibility going forward shoud have been considerd shit.
The bottom line is that we don’t know what’s true and what isn’t. Natalee did nothing wrong, the chaperones did nothing wrong, the parents did nothing wrong, and possibly the suspects did nothing wrong- it could have been a trgic accident.
Just Wonering,
Nope you’re right, it is just the Bush administration flexing its “Kinder and Gentler” muscle without offending ala Terri Schivo (RIP).
Bracgirl………..That’s “South Dallas” around here……lol. Did you hear about the Kingwood HS girls (a group of them) that were arrested and convicted of robbery ?
Seems they were robbing local convenience stores, while attired in masks, to pay for their Designer clothing and Makeup purchases………..Go Figure !
To Cathy or Aruba Girl:\
You are closer to this……..
I asked this earlier but no one knew, perhaps you do.
Why are 2 men in custody when Joran, et al, said 1 black man.
Mickey J ( or is it Nick) and Abraham were arrested at the same time, so they could not have implicated the other.
If the 3 are telling the truth why are there 2 black men in jail??
WoodGuy,
They supposedly left the bar at 12:45 (it closes at 1:00).
Cathy……if the family is completely up to date on police information, why did they not know about blood in the car until Geraldo told them during in interview on national t.v. ??? Just a curious thought
No matter how this case turns out, Aruba will come away with one huge black eye. And not just because of an 18-year-old girl who disappeared, but because of the way racism, favoritism, cronyism, scapegoating, indifference and incompetence hampered the investigation from day one. Listen to what the parents are saying right now. Hear what they have to say. For you Arubans, think of what it would be like if a dark-skinned native girl turned up missing under these conditions. Is this the kind of police protection you want your daughters to have?
SA:
Please be realistic: alot of tings went wrong in this story and hopefully it’ll come out in the end. I don’t believe it was a tragic accident.
Yes the bar closes at 1:00….but I have heard many reports (confirmed by authorities) that they drove away at 1:00. Just a curious timeline. I also wonder where they (the 3) were after 2:00am. I would bet that it wasn’t home in bed.
The Hard turth is the 3 boys gang banged her and killed her and buried her or dumped her in the sea and then gave her or sold her to someone else. Bottomline.
Dear “Scared”……..Forget that “Kindler & gentler” Bush policy………Even Congress was advised by the GAO that implementing a “kindler & gentler” IRS cost the US Gov’t. a “fortune” in lost tax revenue…..At that juncture, Congresssional Ways & Means Committee advised the IRS to “revert to type” and begin seizures of proprty and levy of assets once again………without any further notice.
S A,
Nope nobody did anything wrong, a perfectly healthy young woman just ups and disappears a day before her flight. A car she was in has blood in it and we have no explaination from the car’s owners as to how the blood got there. As WoodGuy points out the logistics in their story adds up to a dirty lie, a lie that has two guys and their families scared for their lives (though I thik they feel better now), a lie that will cost people in lower social classes much much more than the upper class families…but matbe nobody did anything wrong.
John,
Hey, hey, hey…..I’m not one of the “South Dallas” ones…..LOL! Yep, those girls got what they deserved and I loved seeing them in the courtroom crying cuz they got stiff sentences. They actually thought that they would get off on probation!!
1) The blood in the Honda wasn’t hers.
2) He didn’t separate her from her friends
3) It was no one’s place to stop her from hooking up with someone. She’s an adult and she can sleep with or “intimately fondle” whoever she wants.
4) Don’t forget, she could have been drugged, by Jorie or someone else. Women who are slipped a date rape jug act drunk and sexually aggressive but they are really unaware of what’s going on and have no control.
ScaredBlackGuy:
WELL SAID!!!
Also wondering……..if the 3 boys said that a’dark guy in black shirt and pants’ approached Nat without giving a name…..how did it lead to these 2 particular gaurds ??
woodguy,
The times are estimates. The manager at C&Cs stated that Natalee left about 10 minutes before they closed and they closed at 1:00 A.M.. That puts her leaving at 10 til 1. They “said” they dropped her off around 2 a.m. Maybe it was 2:10 a.m. that is 1 hour 20 minutes. No one has reported publicly ever seeing her again after they left.
John asked a good question last night. What is their story after 2 a.m.? can anyone verify that?
Bracgirl………..Yup…….seems they had a little “entitlement” problem……….lol !
Does anyone know if the Aruban Police have gotten a clue yet? By clue I mean a brain, intelligence, or any comprehension of how to handle a criminal investigation.
S. Taylor
Don’t they have the FBI to help them on that?
Bracgirl……….I take it you’re currently on Cayman Brac ? I’m getting ready to leave shortly for a while………..a client was generous enough to provide me with some great tickets to go watch some St Croix native perform incredible “athletic feats” later this evening, so I’ve got to head over to Hobby airport and catch a short flight for the evening……………..
I think the FBI is just helping with forensics. If they were handling the investigation, it would have been solved 2 weeks ago.
I believe it cuz of the statements made by the parents, they believe she is still alive, after they took dna test related to the blood, after it was stated that, it was not related.
Most Educated ppl dont read the local news papers nor take them seriously, you would read any other news source, cuz they are strongly sensationalistic. And they are the ones informing american press. I am just reading and waiting for the real report, soon to come at teh end of this ordeal. Then when all si said and done, we can really know.
During the first week she was missing tehre were hundreds of sigtings.. all misguided.
There were countless of reports that she was found dead in different locations.. all twisted and changed.
there were statements that she had sexual contact with both guards.
and the list of spread rumors goes on.
Another thing is that small islands will cause a flow of unwanted spectators. Imagine they disclose her supposed location, you will have a mass of people wanting to be the first to “help” find her.
I know my locals very well, disagree with their behavior, hence that is the way it is down here. Plus we dont have wealth cover up issues. When the drug and money laundering was found to be in the hands of very wealthy families here.. all the sons related were imprisoned. No one was spared due to wealth or status.
When we had hurricane ivan almost hit us… people were flocking to see places the news had reported things, like massive waves.. when a car accident takes place the streets gets crowded spectators flock to see what happened who was in it and to speak their opinions.
S A,
A blood sample is being processed by the FBI. We will have an announcement tomorrow if not tonight. I will return to read your crow or I will return and post my crow tomorrow.
These guys did something they wish they could take back. A lot of people wish Van Der Sloot was not a blond poster-boy with American blood on his hands but what can you do? Murdering rapist come in all colors, and besides, if you just raped a girl and your dad is studying to be a judge, and on top of that you’re drunk or near drunk and you are only 17, what are the chances you’ll do something even more stupid than raping a woman to cover your tracks and save your family embarrisment?
Cathy, you gotta have a lot of patience here. Fair warning.
ITA with everything that you said.
John,
Yes, on Cayman Brac
Bracgirl………….Do you get the Houston Chronicle ? Do you want me to send it ?
Fox News reported this morning and most of the wire services confirm that the blood was not hers and not related to the case. But you are right, they could take it back- they haven’t been the most accurate source.
Cathy, I totally agree.
Nobody knows untill everything is clear. That’s why I don’t understand why so many people here allready judge either the 2 guards or (one) of the three youngsters.
Where was the report that she had sexual contact with the 2 gaurds ?? I haven’t heard that one yet !!!
John,
I read it online most of the time but thanks for the offer! I really preferred the Post but that’s ancient history.
Aruba girl, are they still saying all three of them had sex with her, or has that been downgraded officially to “fondling in the back seat”? Did they go on the beach or just park? there are so many conflicting rumors.
Simple Poll
SBG – The Three Guys Did It
Arubagirl…..Do you know if the “Tunnel of Love” is still open to tourists ??? My wife and I crawled through it about 15 years ago.
What I’m hearing repeated most often is that v/d Sloot and NH ‘fooled around’. What that defines I have no idea.
From FoxnewsDotCom
The brothers told police the young woman was drunk and refused to get out of the car, said Noraina Pietersz, who is representing Antonius “Mickey” John, 30, one of the two former security guards. He and Abraham Jones, 28, have been detained since Sunday and have denied any connection to Holloway.
The three young men said Holloway stumbled in the parking lot of the hotel but refused help from her Dutch escort, Kock said.
Holiday Inn employees say security cameras did not record Holloway’s return. A Holiday Inn guard who worked the overnight shift that day said he did not see her, said Pietersz, who said she reviewed the guard’s statement to police.
to Just wondering:
they are all 5 held due to the fact that they are suspects. Dutch law allows suspects to be held until proven innocent. The 3 young men made statements that linked these two. I believe after searching out possible guards in the area that fit the description. As long as it’s not proven otherwise, they are all held under suspicion. the confession was released by non-authorized sources. my friend recieved a call from a friend. It was the same as when they said they found her dead at the dump.. etc etc.
I’m sorry……where does it say on Fox News that the blood isn’t hers?
Quote: “We have found some blood in the car, but we don’t know to whom it belongs,” he said.”
That’s the latest on their website. Can someone please tell me where it says it’s not hers?
yes it is still openede
thsi has all become so complicated du eto the fact that we dont know “eveythign”that has happened so we are opened to so many scenarios!
Woodguy,I think it’s still open
Unless I am mistaken, HI security cameras cover the parking lot as well and the hallways, since many thefts involve the removal of luggage and other valuables from cars. So, what does that tell you? Natalee never got back to the Holiday Inn. It’s probably just that simple.
Larry, I’ve heard the cameras weren’t working. Don’t know how reliable this is or not.
bracgirl,
I really believe some people are just uncomfortable with accepting the evidence. Until the FBI makes a statement or an attorney for the 3 men explains the blood publicly, the smart money is on it being Ms. Holloways and therefore connecting the 3 to her demise.
I have no doubt that she never made in back inside the hotel……question is did she ever make it back to the parking lot. I’m guessing no.
Scared Black Guy:
I agree with you……perhaps the locals are helping the gov’t and police by squelching the rumors??
i d check that holiday inn guard… the one that worked the over night shift…
arubagirl,
You are helping disinformation. The tapes of yhe parking lots were “reviewed” which means a camera had to function in order to record images on tapes.
Or perhaps the locals are creating rumors to cause conflicting stories and take the heat off the 3 guys?
1) I heard that one camera wasn’t working, and had stopped working that week, but I don’t know if it’s true.
2) The FBI spokesman said on Fox News that the blood turned out to be unrelated to the case. Could be wrong but I am satisfied.
3) I wish we were hearing more about the date-rape-drug angle- they talked a lot about it the first day but nothing lately.
tapes are easily eraseable….
Scared………In defense of Arubagirl, it’s conceivable that when the tapes were “reviewed”, they discovered that they were “blank” due to some malfunction…….
Fox news has been reporting that there was blood found in the trunk of the silver honda and that the mother, Ms. Holloway has also given a blood sample, and that samples were sent to United States. There has been no news in Central Florida that have mentioned any results. A preliminary on the testing should come in at some point before the day ends.
………….perhaps, similar to the “malfunction” that Janet Jackson suffered……….lol
Quick to judge, eh, scared?
There is a recent article in the Birmingham paper that alludes to the graduates who went on the trip being “tight-lipped” (to the media) at the request of the parents,
http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml
The parents worried that it could “jeopardize” the search. What does everyone think about that? Couldn’t it also assist in the search? Certanly the authorities should be intensively interviewing everyone who went on the trip. And perhaps they are and we just do not know about it.
well it is beign said here that their are tapes but the dates are mixed up and thier not sure which ones whre for that night…but again all rumors…who knows what is true or not at this moment beucase their not leaking any offical information….imagine even the stetement that CNN published was retractd because it was false…The press is the most unreliable source in my opinion…they help wiht lots of things yes…but most of the times they exagerate even make up stuf f jsut to sell
when reports come first through a friend of a friend of mine i switch on the tv and check online. I read ABC News and this blog, but i bought the news paper just to check what they were saying.
I dont consider any sources reliable at the moment not entirely because liek all of you have experienced things were changed. the Police released only a few statements. I rather go by those, since they are lawfully obligated to release only facts, not rumors. So far all we know released by them is that teh 3 witnesses were suspected since the beginning,, strategically let free to monitor their behavior. Since they voluntarily came forward to “help” tehy were treated as such, witnesses. Later, tehy picked up teh two “suspects” the guards. They jsut happened to be teh only two male guards that fit the description, that could have been in the vicinity. Later as teh alibi’s were determined for one, and still no confession, the trio was yielding evidence against itself. thus leading to their arrest, confiscation of pc’s and other electronic possesions as well as the car. If they are still holding all five is because something else is brewing under the group. They may also be held because they know more about natalee than they claim. Be it that they are responsible or just know about her whereabouts. this we still can’t know untill the police releases all the details after this week. There was a report of a 6th person involved. Many things could be brewing. Let’s say there are more guys involved, making headliners with it will only lead to commotion. undisclosed makes it easier for the police to monitor and take action. Plus there may be enough reason to proceed with caution in relation to all these “witnesses” may say. They already made unreliable statements.
Before I went out last night they had announced that they no longer consider this a homicide and that the case would be wrapped up in 24 hours. Is that still the case?
Rob,
Chances are since this is HI the camera system was at least a CCTV system, a commercial system sold by TYCO/ADT or the likes. These systems have time-stamping and a number of them actually record onto DVDs with simultaneous back-up to prevent what you are inferring.
I talked to a friend at CNN this morning.
He said: (1) much embarassment at CNN re the “confession” story—he said it was late and didn’t go thru correct approvals; (2) the Amy Bradley story (the other missing woman from Aruba 5 or so years ago) is essentially BS—her parents sued the cruise line and their case was dismissed basically because they lied to the court—withheld info that Laura had been seen hundreds of times by others—implication was Laura just ran away—not a “disappearance” and people knew where she was etc, plus she dispappeared in Curacao, not Aruba; (3) the sex slave trade rumors are complete BS—there is no such thing, at least involving abduction of US women.
Any thoughts/comments?
Are they planning on letting the two security guards out anytime soon?
Why do the facts of this sad situation getting confused with the fiction?
The only things we know for sure is that , the night before she was to return home, Natalee was with her group -including chaperones-at a local bar and did not appear to be drunk. She left with 3 men -at least one of them was not a stranger-and was seen getting into a car. Then she vanished. Those are the facts.
The fantasy is that these 3 men say that they drove to the beach or is it the lighthouse? One of the men -van der Sloot- was in the back seat of the car and was making out with Natalee but the two brothers did not get out of the car (doesn’t make sense – if they drove to the beach for privacy why didn’t the two brothers go for a walk or the two “lovebirds” get out of the vehicle.) Then the 3 men drove to Natalee’s hotel and she refused to leave the car but somehow she got out and stumbled on her way in (because she was drunk) but did not allow anyone to help her. The three men saw her entering the hotel. ( Not true according to the hotel security videotape) I think that most well brought up young men would have escorted her to her room if she was is such poor shape and maybe phoned the next morning to make sure she was alright and to say goodbye.
These men are lying to cover up their guilt.
What probably happened was that Natalee was slipped a “date rape” drug before leaving the bar and was driven somewhere far away from the beach/lighthouse and violated. She was killed by these men and her body put someplace only these men would know about. I suppose, in Aruba, if your daddy is a judge and there is no body found you walk away from a murder charge.
If she is not dead then she is being held someplace against her will and these 3 creeps know where she is. The people in charge of this investigation should be ashamed of themselves. They have fumbled and bumbled this case and let valuable time and evidence slip away.
— Says,
Which direction did “the silver car” drive off toward?? Did it go straight? Did it turn??
Aruba girl-
Is are roofies (date rape drug) big in Aruba? It is almost impossible to get around here.
arubagirl,
Sorry if I offended, seriously, I am not that way. I was between jobs after moving to Atlanta and I worked for TYCO/ADT in commercial sales (hated it) so I got real familiar with security systems….but I ‘m a data analyst by profession so I am always making “judgements” as to the validity of data.
…………….or, at a minimum, buy her breakfast……..(Sorry—My Bad)
It is nto usual here we havent had any reported case of it anyways
Robert J,
— will hopefully make it over here to be able to read some real facts, from the locals.
— didn’t see the silver car drive off. Her last sighting of Natalee was as they were first walking out of the bar. At that point, then everyone was getting into cars to return to the hotel. Since Natalee was walking ahead of her, — assumed that she got into another of the cars returning to the hotel.
my dad is a top person in adt/tyco
When will the DNA be in?
Any new information out of aruba?
Missyrose, I have no knowledge. Couldn’t say yes, couldn’t say no. However, as long as I can remember, my parents have warned me about not leaving my drink unattended, don’t take drinks from stangers, look at the bartender when he’s making my drink etc etc. So I’m guessing there have been cases.
what part of aruba are you from aruba girl?
FOX has a live update in about 5 minutes. The banner said “Break in the Case?”.
Ratings…
No prob. Just don’t like somebody telling me that I’m helping to spread false info, as I’m on this message board to stop this from happening.
Tanki Leendert, American.
Did you guys see the pictures of Joren on his website? He looks like a pig. Holding money in front of a casino, groping a girl, surrounded by a group of girls, holding up gang signs.
They were posted on msn.net
I can almost bet that this case is going to wind up as an ‘accidental’ death case and that the 3 ‘good upstanding boys’ just panicked. Notice the choice of words: “We believe this case is not a ‘homicide’. Last night stating that ‘this will be wrapped up by tomorrow’. If the authorties swear they are telling the family everything that how could it be ‘wrapped up’ today and the family knows nothing ??? Just sounds like a circle of lies to me
please let me knw about the fox news! I dont get that channel here!
By the way, Catriana, you’re a piece of work. You had no idea who you were berating. You owe that poster an apology for your crass and hard stance. For Pete’s sake, think before you opinionate.
we will find out in court. sad to say, i believe teh locals are saturating the news sources with exaggerations and rumos. This is not caused by the government. It is a common thing when something big happens. Unrelated people spreading teh word of things they supposedly overheard, and making them sound like facts.
Happens all the time, that is why i say follow the police and fbi statements and disregard hearsay. It will spare you a lot of worries.
uhh i think he looks like a normal teenage boy
Were close!IM in catiri!
Cathy,
There is another way to look at the plight of the two guards. What if “liberties” were taken with these two men to extract information? Do you think the police and/or government will want them spilling there guts to the world so Jesse Jackson and/or Al Sharpton can come and pester you?
If these guys are completley innocent (and I am starting to think just that) would the govenment want them free without a deal to keep their mouths shut? Maybe they need time for injuries to heal….just a thought.
“2) the Amy Bradley story (the other missing woman from Aruba 5 or so years ago) is essentially BS—"
AtlantaGuy, facsinating information. Things aren’t always what they seem. Thanks for sharing.
Ditto on Fox.
THE WHORE DESERVED TO GET RAPED&MURDERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Missyrose, my guess is she had a Bad combination of alcohol and XTC. Ruffies are not common in Aruba. Never heard of a date-rape related case…..
Prime minister is holding only to locals at 8pm
Prime Minister holding a news conference at 8PM tonight…only talking to local press.
NATALEE WAS A CUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
aruba to hold news conference at 8p this evening fox news states
Response to Woodguy- More like an accidental drug overdose while the 3 innocent men were with her and they panicked and hide her body.
i think drinking and doing drugs killed her
Native, good to see you.
Hello there arubagirl….
NATALEE WAS A BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KRISTIE NIKITIN watch what you post.
kristie, did u know her?
I have had friends overdose it is scary.
Looks like school’s out.
NATALEE WAS A WHORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for local stations.
Tom or Red – will you please block KRISTIE NIKITIN from posting anymore?
Kristie – get a life.
Arubagirl – anything on Fox yet?
maybe shes a classmate who didnt like her
QUESTIONS:
(a) Which direction (East, West, North, South) did “the silver car” drive away from the casino after her friends saw her wave and get in the car?
(b) Did the car continue straight, or turn, as far as anyone witnessed?
(c) If we walk the same route.. can we find OTHER security camera surveillance systems that also captured “the silver car” passing by.. if so, how far along “the route” can we do this?
(d) Are there any other security camera surveillance systems anywhere on the island that may have caught “the silver car” passing by that night??
(e) Did any have a cellular phone on them?
(f) Did Natalee carry a purse? If so, what’s the description?? Description of shoes?? Necklace?? Eyeglasses?? Any other personal items that may have been dropped anywhere??
Karma’s gonna bite her on the ass one day.
Where and when did you meet Natalee Ms Kristie Nikitin? The only people
saying that she was drunk and sexually permissive are the 3 men who saw her last. Do you think they might be lying?
her friends have also posted that she was drunk, also some people who saw her in the bathroom
It doesn’t matter what type of person Natalee is or was. She deserves to be home.
Let’s just ignore that idiot poster please.
# MissyRose Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
When will the DNA be in?
# Catriana Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
Any new information out of aruba?
Per Karl Penhaul of CNN:
The sample of “blood” that was sent to VA is NOT BLOOD. No word on what it is though. This was just broadcasted on CNN…..they may retract is soon but anyway that’s the latest.
Don’t get Fox.
an excerpt from a birmingham columnist..thought it brought to surface some important reflections….
im cutting and pasting…
“To put it crudely, some tragedies are more profitable than others for the networks and their advertisers.
Among the tens of thousands of Americans reported missing each year, the ones whose cases reach iconic status typically are pretty, white, suburban females.
Which brings us to the disappearances of Nancy Lewis, 47, and Natalee Holloway, 18, two women from the Birmingham area who have vanished in recent weeks.
It’s considered likely that both disappearances are linked to some form of foul play.
Lewis, missing since May 18, was a longtime cook at vanished on her way to work. A day later, her pickup truck was found abandoned.
Holloway had just graduated with honors from Mountain Brook High School and was about to start college. She vanished from the Caribbean island of Aruba on May 30, just as her five-day senior trip was about to end.
The loved ones of both women are desperate for answers. Sleepless nights and tortured thoughts are something they share.
But the disappearance of Holloway — young, white and suburban — quickly was picked up not only by the local media but by the 24-hour cable networks. The case of Lewis — black, urban and middle-aged — only began to receive significant local coverage after she had been missing three weeks and her family began to complain about the disparity.
On Thursday, Matthew Felling, media director of the Center for Media and Public Affairs in Washington, searched a national database of broadcast transcripts. “It showed that the missing Alabama student had been mentioned 10 times as much as the Downing Street memo, which details our path to war,” Felling said.
“They have completely run amok with this Holloway story, and for no other reason than that the news networks are ratings addicts, and this story is ratings crack,” he said. “You have to wonder if stories like this don’t contribute to Americans’ distrust of the media, because they can sense when they’re being pandered to. They’ll watch, but they won’t like themselves in the morning.”
But does it help bring anyone home?
Sometimes.
Excessive attention can hinder police investigations and, rarely, put the wrong kind of pressure on kidnappers.
But generally, the families that make more noise get more help. A photo repeatedly flashed on TV becomes recognizable. Rewards can induce witnesses to talk.
If the Holloways enlisted the help of Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, they did the right thing, because Sessions facilitated the dispatch of 13 FBI agents to Aruba.
The missing student’s aunt, Marcia Twitty, has had a long career in media relations — not a bad kind of expertise to have in the family.
As for Lewis’ friends and relatives, they’re learning.
They finally succeeded this week in getting significant media attention for her disappearance. Before long, Tuscaloosa businessman Stan Pate added $10,000 and Children’s Hospital, Lewis’ employer, added $5,000 to the $2,000 reward fund the family had collected.
It’s a sad business, and it puts us in touch with some sordid realities about race, class and the media. But when a loved one is missing, people do what they have to do.
Elaine Witt’s column runs Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday in the Birmingham Post-Herald.
Another person that saw her that night, said she didn’t look right, her eyes were heavy. Enough for her to ask Natalee if she was ok.
FOX Update (nthing big):
Aruba PM to hold a news conference at 8pm to local media only in his native language. It is to assure the natives of Aruba that everything is under control.
Natalee’s family is getting more and more upset about how the case is being handled by Aruba officials.
No one will be released including the 2 security guards, as Aruba officials claim they have enough on the 2 men to continue holding them. (no word on what it is)
Blood found in silver car (Joran’s) is being tested in the US and in Holland. No info on the results yet.
A missing Alabama honors student went to an Aruban beach with a Dutch teen the night she disappeared and had sexual contact with him in the car, a defense lawyer representing one of five men arrested in the case said Friday.
Doesn’t it take several days for a conclusive report on the blood? I’m shocked that there is already word on it.
(a, b,c) no one saw the silver car drive away- no one saw her dropped off- that information came from the 3 boys
(d) they have the car impounded now so they don’t need to find it
(e) their cell phones didn’t work down there so no one carried them
(f) all she had on her was her drivers license- purse and bags packed in the room, passport with chaperones
From all reports she was a good person. Don’t believe anything the 3 stooges say about her.
# Kat Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:39 pm
Blood found in silver car (Joran’s) is being tested in the US and in Holland. No info on the results yet.
Kat, CNN just announced that it is NOT blood that was found in the car but that there is no word on what it is.
Let’s hope none of Natalee’s friends come online while Ms. “Nitwit” is here posting garbage…
Amen, Leslie.
so it isn’t blood?
Who ever wishes to blame the victim does not understand the reality. To take a woman while she is drunk or high is the act of a cowardly rapist. To take a woman when she is sober is the act of a hardend rapist but the act is still rape so why blame the girl?
I blame her friends because some of them should have went with her to protect her from herself if she had too much and it was obvious. Girls must remember to stick together until eveyone is home safe and never leave alone with new friends.
# MissyRose Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:43 pm
so it isn’t blood?
That’s what he said…..
That would be strange since there are initial tests you do to confirm “blood” evidence prior to sending it off for testing.
Thank you. Re (b), It’s not just a question of finding the car.. it’s a question of “determining their route” — i.e. you go back and check everywhere within 100 paces of “their route” if you wish to find the most logical place(s) that a body could be “dropped off” and/or “hidden away”. (Beyond 100 paces.. it starts getting pretty hard to carry a body.. away from the car.)
Well that’s weird, because all other outlets are reporting that it’s indeed human blood but they won’t know whose until the DNA results come back.
This investigation is completely FUBAR.
To Scared Black Guy: My thinking is along the same lines. But I don’t think they’re waiting for the wounds to heal. I think they’re waiting for a signed agreement that the two security guards won’t talk to the media. And I think that it’s face-saving, at this point. If they released the two security guards now, they have to expain why Van der Sloot and his companions went footloose for 10 whole days!
I notice that the news has completely dried up from Fox or CNN. Apparently they overstayed their welcome.
Then Fox sent down Geraldo to try to re-establish their journalistic integrity.
I don’t mind the media being quiet. I’m certain that the FBI are doing their jobs. We’ve got 5 suspects and maybe 6. There was an arrest yesterday morning and I’m going to believe that it is related. I’m not going to believe the media.
QOUTE: “There is a recent article in the Birmingham paper that alludes to the graduates who went on the trip being “tight-lipped” (to the media) at the request of the parents,
http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml
The parents worried that it could “jeopardize” the search. ”
I guess that is because NOT one American News Reporter has related the story published by one of Natalee’s friends, Haley. She stated that they whole gang had been going all out with booze, alcohol, drinking 3 days in a row. They were constantly drunk. She said this flagrantly. I doubt she would lie. Her parents obviously don’t wish to soil her “Miss Perfect” image.
Police can’t make statements about this because tehy dont have natalee to check her alcohol levels. if she is found dead an autopsy will tell.
Carlos & Charleys is known to be a wild place where tourist and locals alike do things only seen on porn video’s… although it is a restaurant. And minors used to be allowed in. I am 20 and dont look it, was always kept outside even as a teen. they let you in if u look 18, or are a flirt like my friend she was younger and used to get in and i’m talking about 6 years ago.. yes I was 14…I never went back since the place got so debauched I have never witnessed what goes on in there just heard of lesbian acts and sexual erotism and booze, lot’s of it.
I believe in teh end carlos and charley’s will be charged for their carelessness. And all those involved who contributed to this youngster being led into this situation.
Reports are stating the Joren Van Der Sloot is being cooperative.
# KerinTX Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:45 pm
That would be strange since there are initial tests you do to confirm “blood” evidence prior to sending it off for testing.
I’m beginning to get the impression that they are purposely trying to keep the media “occupied” so that they can conduct this investigation the way they need/want too.
I buy that Larry.
arubagirl
any news? What is on the radio? Weird 80′s music?
# Tila_Bean Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
Doesn’t it take several days for a conclusive report on the blood? I’m shocked that there is already word on it.
I think it would take that long for a DNA verification if I’m not mistaken. Blood typing is done rather quickly.
I think they are leaking things to get more information from the suspects.
Once again, What “alibi” have the 3 boys provided for there whereabouts between 2:00am……..(the time they say that they dropped Natalee at the Holiday Inn) and either daybreak or her scheduled flighttime ? Even if we grant them their own “timeline”, I have Still not heard any answer to the question (and verification) of exactly where ANY of them were from 2:00 am forward………….???
Am I missing something here ???
Fact: both of Natalee’s parents were taken to a government operated lab on friday afternoon.
I doubt if any woman can fight off 3 men at anytime. I think it is possible that Natalee might have had sex willingly or not with van der Sloot but the other two guys as well? Never. One of the brothers looks gay to me anyway. Not that there is anything wrong with gayness just that most gay guys do not want to have sex with a woman.
I too read that the outside camera at the HI was broken.
When leaving C&C, one would have to turn right, drive along the main drag over the bridge to the cinemas then turn left to drive to the hotels and lighthouse.
Maybe the blood in the trunk of the car is the blood of a PREVIOUS victim. Has anyone thought about that?
Does any one know if the other Graduates who went on the trip, and who are now back home, are continuing to be interviewed by the FBI?
One would assume yes, but I am hearing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this. Certainly their input would be invaluable.
Great website with good comments.
No offense but few know this girl any better than they know the boys involved. Not saying she desrved to be raped or murdered (or whatever may have happened to her) but to say she “did no wrong” is just another politically correct out today.
Some say dressing provocatively is no excuse for rape. True, but it sure sends a message and is a contributory factor in setting a CLIMATE for its occurrence. Its why American companies are told to remove calendars of pinup models from office or factory walls…in a sexual harasssment case, it is clear evidence that the climate is contributing to the culture and will hurt the company in court against damages.
Some say this girl never drank at all and was the perfect honor student. Supposedly the Dutch kid was also a honors student (which has no relevance) and a star athlete.
So now the only way Natalie got drunk is if someone drugged here etc. Maybe she just got drunk and did drugs and no one knew all along. It happens.
But the comments that she did “nothing wrong” are inane. She got drunk, went with 3 strangers at 1 PM in a car alone on a distant island, and supposedly was involved with at least one guy.
Those are a lot of wrong actions/decisions …that contributed to sending a bad message and putting hersell in a bad situation. What if she just wanted more drugs or had drugs herself and overdosed…and the boys got scared.
There has been a lot of blame toward Aruba and the alleged criminals. Let’s not exclude the girl…..not enough information.
If she had tattoos all over her body, was black, and looked tough, or was a hooker, she’d be treated a lot differently.
She did plenty wrong and so did her parents by allowing her to go on such a trip. How many parents would do the same and send a kid to Cancun or Aruba when the drinkning age is 18 with few chaperones. How many would not advise their kids. Sorry for the parents and family, but let’s face it. This girl indulged in some very high risk behavior.
Comments on this post will be closing in the next 5 minutes. They will be continued on this post
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1121
We’re listening to the dulcet tones of Chingy, friend.
MissyRose Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 4:49 pm
I think they are leaking things to get more information from the suspects.
Missy…I have heard others say that but do the suspects actually have access to TV/radio in their cells? (just asking)
Dallas… I give my opinion, no more no less. I suggest you take care of your own glass house, before you throw stones at mine.
If you don’t like what I have to say, do I what do with posts I don’t like, pass them by!
No they probably don’t get it in their cells, but the attorneys, families, and friends would hear the media reports, and I am sure that they would report them back
Comments are now on this post
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1121