RSSNatalee Holloway Information VII
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http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1098
At the bottom are some great ones so check them out.
Tom
ABC’s 20/20 — 10:00pm Eastern/9:00pm Central — will do a Segment on Natalee tonight.
we need som details, we need som facts, this is so har on uh in alabama, as in rest of the word, as god as my witness, i have a 13 year old daughter, she was sold
No donna, why do you think that???
well i thought runaway
Just heard on the news…..they are now also looking at the security guards that worked for the promoters of the SOUL BEACH FESTIVAL….
These guards also stayed at the holiday inn….
Yes I did hear about DNA samples taken from suspects today. Can’t confirm it but this seems to be the case.
i see all this crap on here, i see reports, i do not see her as naway, i do not see her as a sexist, i she her in a bad position, i see these 3 BOYS as claiming sex on her, i see them droping her off somewhere, and someone else getting her, i think we have the wrong ppl in custody
Donna… I’m not sure where exactly this RUMOR of human trade and white slavery started, but fact is, there is nothing like that on Aruba.
There are very beautiful girls in Aruba including blonds-blue/eyed.
Girls COME to Aruba to work as legal prostitutes
Colombia and venezuela also have very beautiful women…
Belief me there is no human trade in aruba…
As far as running away… crossed my mind too…but at this point??? doubt it….wish it were the case though….
Jairo,
I didn’t hear about the suspects…. I heard the parents were taken to a lab (landslaboratorium) for blood and DNA samples…
i am in no way faulting aruba, i would go there at this moment, crap just dont add up
Again, as I stated before I will not be surpised if they detain a new person, I believe there’s a missing link. And I have my red flags popping up everywhere!
lets look at the wanna be judge
what the hell are you talking about…? a physic? what going on here?
huh?
guess there are no comments on that
No more comments but as NativeLingo noted there was a Soul Beach Music Festival on that Sunday evening.
What if:
these guys indeed dropped her off at the HI….and there indeed was a guard….
could this “guard” have had a buddy “guard” in the surveillance room/security office that could have tempered with the tape???
God….I think I’m starting to sound like the wanabe detectives out there that I’ve been yelling at all week….must be virtually contagious or something…….
Good questions, they’ll have to look at those surveillance tapes with attention. And there is one more entrance to the HI at the other side of the parking lot. Right? Any security cameras there? Lots of Red Flags!
That’s right! It’s certainly something to look into, because I still believe there’s a missing link.
I’ve been reading the threads, and dear Lord, there are some crazy people out there.
The fact is that there is no evidence made public. We don’t know if she was drunk, had sex, was raped, was murdered, abducted, drugged, hiding. All we know is that she went in the car with three guys, and then she vanished.
The local people I know are getting very pissed off at the U.S. media for insinuating (if not outright saying) that Aruba is a drug island, full of prostitutes and criminals. I hope I don’t even have to say how much BS this is.
Thanks to everyone for saying that they don’t blame the island. It sure as hell seems as if the U.S. media does.
Native, were there pictures in the local papers of the outfits the guards from the Soul Festival were wearing?The concert ended at 11 pm, if I remember correctly, which would be probably when the guards would get off duty from the concert. This raises some interesting concepts.
ArubaGirl
It would be a blessing for the island if the boys story held up and they found it was an off Island security guard who was involved in this.
If I’m not mistaken, the SBF guards wore black trousers and black T-shirts with “security” on them….
If she is dead than were is the body??? In a random act of volience does it seems less likely that the body would be hidden? What about the boys, it seems unlikely they would be carrying shovel around with them…I doubt they put a body in their car…
The fact that she “vanished” seems to eliminate some suspects…(almost makes me believe pre-arranged kidnap and the sale to pirates at the beach theory). WHo could pull off such a crime?
Would you need a boat? At least shovels…
Any thoughts on this angle?
Exactly, certainly an interesting new angle on this.
Aruba girl…I’m with you, but at this point I think most people already know that most of the reporters (O’Reilly, Greta, and Nacy) are complete sensationalistic clowns….
can’t even get their facts straight……….
Could they have found blood in the “boys” car??? They would have to test for DNA if that is the case.
Rebuen T. was just on Hannity & Combs and he did a better job then last night…they admitted that they are holding the security guards only because they was looking for security guards and these two “fit the bill”. Weak reason to arrest them.
But don’t you think, that if these boys killed her, they would have thrown her body in the ocean, since they have such close proximity to it? I hate to even type that…it sounds so horrible.
I don’t know why, but for some reason, I have this strange feeling that she is alive.
Phil….
No human pirates……
two things:
girl dies accidentally…boys freak out….girl dumped in ocean……..(We lost a wave-runner….just drifted away)
girl dies accidentally……boys freak out…….hide her for a while)…..leave area and come back with shovel……
going to dinner….back later
possibilities are endless..
Arubagirl, I agree with you to a point. I rarely support mainstream American media. However, I do feel their exposure of this case (while somewhat overboard) has and will help in solving this case. I have to wonder if the 3 students would have been arrested if it weren’t for huge media attention. The whole world was watching as the last three seen with Natalee were let go and 2 immigrant security guards were held with what appears to be little or no evidence tying them to the case.
I’m proud to be an American, but we should be the last country to criticise other countries for crime! However, our justice system is generally fair and forthright. Public disclosure goes a long way to tone down rumors and innuendo.
Correct and this is why I still think there’s a missing link, there were many security guards in the HI, I think we have the wrong people in custody. I have serious red flags ppl.
K…That was my first thought. If they did throw her in say on the “shark” side of the island, what are the chances that divers would find something??
The sharks do not get close to the coast on the north side of the island, many times people who fall in these waters when fishing will be beaten on the rocky shore side and even could get trapped between rocks, that’s why the FBI divers were asked because it’s a very dangerous diving place.
Good point Jairo!
I definitely don’t think those security guards that they have in custody have anything to do with the case. I kind of feel sorry for them (though my mind would, of course, change should they actually be found to have been involved).
I feel like those 3 boys know something. I wouldn’t be surprised if she accidentally drowned, as Native said, and they freaked out, remembered those security guards, and decided to pin it on them. Those 3 guys just seem…seedy.
Posted this on a different page, but not sure anyone’s seeing it…
Please note the “ANGER MANAGEMENT ISSUES” comment from an Aruban reporter with regard to Joran….
I dont know if you visited Joran’s websites, but his favorite songs are all women-degrading rap tunes, like “Candy Store” which is about getting a woman to perform oral sex and degrading her in the process… All his photos are posed with attractive women and he’s flashing money, has a leather belt around some other shirtless kid’s neck, others are bar scenes where he and his friends are flashing make-believe gang signs, pretending to be American gangsta boys… In all, he seems like a spoiled, undisciplined kid, whose permissive parents allow him to frequent casinos and bars, give him a pricey car – all the while knowing he’s legally underage for gambling and drinking. And this is the son of a judge..
So, I do see some parallels with Robert Chambers, and Joran certainly is a creepy kid…
Add to that the comment from the reporter that Joran is “dealing with anger management issues” and the story of the fight or near-fight Joran was involved in with Natalee’s classmates, and it certainly seems more than plausible that the kid responded violently when rejected… I get the impression that if he was rejected by Natalee in front of his two friends, he wouldn’t respond like a gentleman, especially after midnight, after having been drinking, and knowing that Natalee would be leaving the island in a few hours….
Like you, neither I nor anyone here knows what happens, but if I were a betting man, I’d put my money on Joran. Something is very wrong with him…
that abandoned housing thing still concerns me…
what abandoned housing thing rob?
Arubagirl’s synopsis is the baseline at this writing; CNN and FOX News are into the MSM miliking of this story on Friday nite. That said, I’m willing (and we have no choice, now) to watch this play out with the Aruba-dudes police system. ((((Lord knows that it appears bizzare and coverup-time)))))
MOHO, this smells so much like a cover-up. Hope the Aruba police are squeezing these guys until their sphincters cry out in pain.
We currently have a lively chat going at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NataleeHolloway/
Sign up and then click on the CHAT link on left… make sure popup blockers are off.
If you would like to join us! We have a person there from Aruba who is giving us some information not yet in the press.
Not to defend JOran or anythign because we really dont know what happenede here….the car did not belong to him, and apparently his parents did not knwo he went out so often…he would liek they day here “jump the window” midn you he was only 17 but htis guy is really really trall….typical dutch with bug features….it si said he already knew natalee and a couple from boston testified that they saw natalee all messed up in the bathronm and her girlfreinds were “fixing her up” and asked Joran to take her to the hotel….
Since the Soul Beach crew all stayed at the Holiday Inn, the same hotel as NH, there is the possibility that these three boys indeed dropped her off at the hotel and accurately described the uniform of the security guard. They desribed the uniform as consisting of a black t-shirt and black pants, this matches the uniform worn by the Soul Beach guards and does not match the uniform worn by the two suspects previously arrested (they wear black pant with a white shirt). So maybe we should take a closer look at the SB guards. The problem is that they’ve already left the island, but I’m sure that with the FBI’s resources they could trace everyone who worked as security for SBF.
Yes that is definitely a posibility
THE 20/20 program has begun
Exactly, Isa. We can’t rule out anything, this is a very interesting new view.
I’ve seen pictures of the uniform of the SB security guards and they were completly dressed in black and if I’m not wrong on this the security of the HI do not were all black uniform. Red Flags ppl.
my heart is breaking for htese parents…..and let me tell you her mother is one tough dog! she is really determined to find her daughter and that is so good my hats off to this lady being the hard situation she is in
I think that Soul Beach theory might have some validity! It would be worth looking into.
We currently have a lively chat going at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NataleeHolloway/
Sign up and then click on the CHAT link on left… make sure popup blockers are off.
NativeLingo: We miss you. How are you. Would you considered visiting us?
Ok i am on the Yahoo link you sent ..now what?? when i click on chat it comes up blank
Got this from a website:
Hello, i am a trained psychic, i have focused on the person and my mind tells me she will be located on the northern tip of the island in a white house with a blue roof. The house is mounted on stilts and constructed of wood panels. Try and relate the number 56, proably a house number or street number. You must understand however, that psychic observations may be subject to errors but this is all that i can do to help. May God protect her.
the website is:
http://www.comebackalive.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10351&start=15&
I dont think the Soul Beach ‘theory’ makes a lot of sense as the actual evidence – the video cameras in not only the Holiday Inn, but in the nearby hotels and area – have absolutely no record of the silver/grey car dropping Natalee off. Also, it seems implausible that this Joran, who ‘befriended’ Natalee, would let her fall out of the car, dead drunk, according to the reports his two friends are giving, have her refuse his help, and the three speed off without noticing anything apart from a black-clad security guard walking toward her.
Assume for a second the LIKELY – that Joran and his friends had something to do with this – blaming a festival security guard that they know is off the island, seems a very smart thing to do – and their only option…
because…
they cant admit they didn’t bring her back to the hotel. Everyone knows they left Carlos and Charlies, and they themselves admit to taking her to the beach… In order to remove any suspicion, they would HAVE to claim to return her to the HI…
And if they claim they returned her to the HI, then they would have to blame someone else for her disappearance, wouldn’t they? And who better to blame than someone outside of Aruban jurisdiction now…
This sounds to me like a BS alibi… and the video tape agrees with me…
well they never said anythign about the security gaurds that was our suspicion..they just described the person that walked up to her…maybe they thought he was a real security gaurd and they didnt want to get in trouble and thought he would take her to the hotel safely…who knows!Theri are so many options! I really have no idea what else to think about! Ive come come with about 1000 scenarios of what could have happened….but the prime minester said that the parents know more than we do…what is that?? they have some info that we dont….that is very weird
If the chat comes up blank, check to make sure you don’t have popup blockers on!
We currently have a lively chat going at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NataleeHolloway/
Sign up and then click on the CHAT link on left… make sure popup blockers are off.
I am knocked out of the yahoo chat room , will keep trying to get in
I really have a gut feelign shes still alive…dont ask why bnecasue I have no idea! This gril is alive! and with prayer and positive thoughts this will be the case because on such a small island a body cant be hidden for so long! and these guys cant have thought this out in such little time
It’s pretty busy Tom! I have gotten knocked out a few times myself…
Nice to see your members visit our chat room.
xCatrianax / Yahoo
this whole thing has me sick…..i pray for the girl’s poor parents. what a nightmare!
OK take this for example:
Teh boys pick up Natalee at the club at 1.30am
The light house is 15min. from Carlos n Charlies (so its 1.45am)
they “engage” in sexual activities with her ( give em 15min) so its 2.00am
some thing “happens to her” so it might be 2.15am
3 boys trying to figure out WHAT to do with her atleast 40min to think of csomething its 3.00am
they ahve like 2 hours to do something with her bosy,if she is dead, (which i think is not) they dont have shovels or anythign and their probably drinking also so their a little slower on reaction…..how could they dig her up deep enough to not have the deadbody odor by now….because Joran went to school that monday and I figure beign the distance from his address to school he should be picked up by 6.00am latest 6.30am…I really think that if they got rid of the body in the ocean…it would have floated to the coast because they didnt have a boat to take the body out and even if they did someone would know if they took out a boat!
i heard the Carlos&Charlies place closed at 1 AM, not 1:30
ok so give them an extra 30min…..still doesnt help 3 “under the influence” kids to figure out what to do…and clean up so beautifully
that’s a good point.
I am very sorry to say that I really can not come to terms with her freinds letting her go with 3 boys alone! I can tIMAGINE leaving my freinds……liek my mother always told us “LEAVE TOGETHER, COME HOME TOGETHER”
yes, i wonder how those “friends” feel now….but then at 18 you feel invincible
One of her classmates said that she wasn’t out of control at Carlos and Charlies, and waved goodbye to her as she left with the three guys. She wasn’t falling down drunk..
But if she was falling-down-drunk as Joran’s friends have supposedly claimed, she would have had to become that way AFTER leaving the bar- so yes, her being drugged is certainly a possibility.
My theory is this:
Joran took her to the beach with the two friends in the front seat, as reported in the media today, referencing the two friends’ statements. Natalee refused his advances after awhile, and he became angry.
As I said earlier, the DIARIO reporter claimed that Joran was “dealing with anger management issues” and he was humiliated in front of his two friends – two friends who are part of his little world, in which he takes the role of ‘playa’ and gambling, drinking, womanizer… (see all the photos on his TICKLE and MSN websites)….
The alcohol, consumed in large quantities at Carlos and Charlies fuels his rage and he chokes Natalee into submission, knowing that she’s leaving the island in a few hours and won’t stick around to press charges… He and his friends have their way with her, and either accidentally or intentionally choke her to death.. And then dispose of the body into the ocean, burning the clothes…
They return home, and agree to tell authorities that they had some light contact at the beach, returned her to the HI, where she was drunk and uncooperative, and watched her walk toward the hotel where a security guard approached her. It would be a security guard from the festival, where they knew they’d be leaving that morning…
Other scenarios don’t make as much sense, or are contradicted by the evidence…
In support of this theory:
- The statement of one of Natalee’s friends at the bar
- The statements of the two teens with Joran and Natalee
- THe lack of video to corroborate their story when there would have been had they been telling the truth
- The character of Joran, as indicated by his websites, photos, and comment from the DIARIO newspaper and the near-fight he was involved in with Natalee’s friends
- The lack of corroboration from the HI security guard or front desk
So, I think given the current info as we know it, all fingers point to Joran unless something new is revealed…
It seems to me the story of these three boys have changed so many times I can not think anything else that they are liers. And presumeably this is my impression ,they slipped Natalie some roofie in her drink and she had a reaction only after she was raped by the three. How can you believe three liers when you have no one to confirm if they are telling the truth. Ducthboy had his daddy bail him out , probably , someone daddy had in the security dept. Lets face the cold hard facts. I hope and pray I am wrong for Natalie’s sake.
thanks for all the info! I am still….scared shit less!
Here is something new…I was thinking what would make someone die accidentally, on such a night out at Carlos and Charlies..here are my observations.
1. You could die if you really alcohol binged the night, Not the case here…or..
2. You drink that 28oz deal of C&C, get drunk, and the predators slip you Extacy. Being perhaps drug free and not used to X and alcohol, one of the side effects is coma and death even. I know of a young woman who use of X ended in coma then died like a month later.
3. I like the theory of the guard being related to the Soul Festival, might have a possibility there. Of cours that means Sex Trade/Slavery/Prositution ring.
4. I also have to mention to that Arubagirl post that stories of Aruba Banks laundering drug money is true.
Extacy induces heart attack, making the blood flow shoot up in your brain. The sensation of being Happy is thousand fold. ( she looked happy waving at the crowd in a silver Honda after 1:00am) sounds familiar?
Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.
Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here.
Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.
Compananzi, Arubabank laundering money? I personally would have said Interbank, back in the days… That’s an area where I have no expertise in. Hope not, as I’m about to sign a loan with them
Compananzi…if you know their is drug laundrying why havent you contacted authorities with your 100% confirmation of this??? And even if ti is true…..can you tell me of any other state…city…town that has NOTHING to do with drugs??becayse even if they do it the main client apparently to drug dealers is the US
i know one thing…this whole case has made the name “aruba’ sound awful to my ears…whatever the outcome. It creeps me out…..i hate to travel anyway but I’d never go to any island now. I’ll stick with Maine!
And you REALLY HONESTLY think maine is safer than aruba??
No but just the name ARUBA makes me think of a parent’s worst nightmare right now.
Im from florida…and let me tell you Im scared to walk around in MIami!
And why do we let these creeps take over and make us all “scared shitless”?? We need a Bob Grant to put these mutants where they belong….in a permanently locked jail!
Sorry to sound dumb but….who is Bob Grant?
Hey Scaredshitlless, please clarify about which Bob Grant you’re talking about, because the Bob Grant I Googled is scaring me shitless.
Just watched current affair on Fox which has nightly update on Natalie. I understand that Ducthboy had plans to go to school in Florida ST. Leo’s or someting of that sort. I wonder if he still plans to attend college in Florida?
YEs i believe so…he evn asked soem web page to remove his picture because he wanted to go to a US school and this could ruin his record ebign he has nothign to do with this…..and thursday night was his graduatino that he couldnt attend
This is for Aruba girl ? Where are you located in Aruba?
I’m about ten minutes from the capital. Not that that’s very specific, as almost everything is located ten minutes from the capital. I’m in between Oranjestad and the hotel district, more or less.
Do any locals who are posting know which school this guy graduated from? Was it Colegio? It’s a bit early to be having graduation parties, isn’t it?
Did you go to the concert they were talking about?
No, I didn’t. I was thinking yes/no; yes/no, but the price was a bit steep (for me), and my best friend was on-call as an EMT that night, so I didn’t.
Arubagirl …
We currently have a lively chat going at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NataleeHolloway/
Sign up and then click on the CHAT link on left… make sure popup blockers are off.
a lot of folks have asked if you could join us there!
xCatrianax
So you have lived on Aruba your whole life? Are you a transplant?
body buried/no location/admits one of 3.
sad.
cnn
I was born in The Netherlands, came to Aruba when I was three years old (my parents are both Aruban), studied in FL long enough to get my AA degree, but then my appartment didn’t like the fact that three hurricanes passed over it, got flooded, so I said “screw this” and went back home.
Friend of Mickey John-CNN the channel? It’s not on there right now…
Breaking news on CNN…one of the three boys have confessed to killing and burying Natalee. Heartbreaking.
That was a bad year and now there is Arlene on the way to Florida the first Hurricane of the Year.
It was on CNN, then they switched back to reg. programming.
It was just on CNN news channel.
It’s not confirmed
I just saw it on the crawl of CNN too…. supposedly the one who confessed will lead police to the body!
How very sad for her family, friends and all of us..
Arubagirl-it isn’t confirmed? I’m jumping on any hope there is at all…so there’s no official statement? It’s just the media?
CNN is and HNN is carrying the crawl…Breaking News…sernior police official tells that ONE of the three confessed to killing her.
It just startled all of us. The local radio stations are going nuts, they don’t know where CNN got this from. I’m not saying it isn’t true, I’m saying that it’s a big WTF? moment for a case that so far was leak-free.
Confirmed by a senior police official:
“One of three young suspects arrested Thursday in the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to her murder, a senior police official said late Friday.”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html
I’m reading the same story. If I hadn’t seen the lousy coverage before, I’d would have believed it inmediately. On the other hand, I doubt that CNN would just shoot this story if they weren’t very sure of their sources.
FoxNews is saying the AP is confirming as well.
Nothing on MSNBC and Fox News…not even the crawl…CNN gets this and proves a point.
Leventhal on FOX is on the air with the story
I a not usually psychic but just got a srtrong feeling that they should start checking the pet cemetary-way uo island-opp end from hotels and closre to cc’s
This story has touched soo many people & I know all their prayers will be heard.
I live in a Canadian city where there are lot of young American tourists because our drinking age is a flexible 18- we’ll look the other way if you are a mature looking 16! I see this all the time (young tourists getting drunk & acting out) Numerous times have I given girls rides to their hotels when the’ve just known me all of 45 minutes – or even have them hang out at my apartment ’till they sober up.
I tend to agree with Rick Says’ theory- gets into car with boys, later refuses or resists their advances & things turn ugly. If you are dropped into the ocean- even near the shore when the tide is going out- you will be dragged out to sea.
The kidnap/ sexual slavery stories are mostly myth. Its just too easy for a captive to somehow contact authorities in any country in South America. You are more likely to end up in Russia if kidnapped by slavers.
I think the 2 security guards were convenient fall guys (poor & black)!! Justice in Aruba is similar to all the islands & indeed most of the world over. It tends to be clannish & if you have friends/family in high places you get off easy. Otherwise why would they release the last people seen with her when she is judgement impaired & arrest other suspects on flimsy charges?
Yes, CNN and HN and AP are reporting that a teen (I am sure it’s Joran, see above) has confessed…
I was so sure this was the case…. now I just feel deep sadness for Natalee’s family and friends and hope this little POS gets what he deserves…
God bless Natalee’s family and friends…
Just seen the newsflash on CNN online – my prayers go out to her parents & friends.
I was a Navy diver, aspiring to be an Oceanographer at one point in my life. Anyone who says a body can be found in the ocean, doesn’t understand the sea. It’s one thing for a body to float up after several days due to gasses in fresh water (like in rivers or lakes). The ocean sea, and it’s denizens can be counted on to consume anything in its midst. Sorry to be point blank about it, but it’s the plain truth.
I am hoping against hope that poor Natalee will be found. But a body being found that’s been in the sea for ten days? Very, very unlikely.
Say a prayer for Natalee
Hey, Bill…she’s…
MSNBC says “something bad happened” but CNN and FOXNEWS say she was murdered…why?
Prayer said. God Bless.
Tom – Red – forgive me for what I am about to say..and you’ll probably delete it..but..
Aruba..may you burn in Hell for what you have bred…or at the very least….endure a pergatory for decades from which you will never forget this incident…for you have bred it..an atmosphere of decadence and indifference born of a two tier system of society..the “priviledged” few, believing they are beyond and above others..other human life…and having little regard for others that they believe are beneath them…I am distraught about this….and care for none but this child…..and her family…who will never be the same…you..Aruba…will seek to be over it in years…will call it an incident….but this family will carry this for decades….generations. May God damn you and all who breed and condone the same environment.
so which is it? first the boy confessed, now they are changing the statement to “something bad happened” i wonder what happened? I think something happened and she died then they freaked and didnt know what to do.
Gaijin….I understand your anger……we are ALL angry……….
The people of Aruba are NOT to blame for this……
Gaijan
The 3 suspect we e all from off island, born off island, and probably brought off island morals with them.
“Aruba..may you burn in Hell for what you have bred”
Well we breed them every day in the good old U.S. of A.; you might as well blame God. We should be thanking the people of Aruba for all that they did to try to help find one of ours.
Is everyone speechless?
Unreal
Tragic
All of it and from every angle
I do not blame the people…but a society that does not police itself sufficiently….I am a father of a 17 yer old girl with a 4.8 GPA who is in the drill team at school…the parallels of this story terrified me…I have spoken to my children for years of protecting themselves from predators…I am sick of hearing of Dru Sjodin and Brooke Wilberger stories…I”knew” from the beginning that this was a Roberts Chambers case….and I am tired of our children enduring the dominance and abuse of the so called priviledged….I am sick at heart
CajunMole….still here??
I meant CancunMole
gaijin – Please take a deep breath. This is not a crime committed by “the people of Aruba” – it is apparently a crime committed by a teenage boy who is undisciplined, allowed to drink and gamble and frequent bars at the age of 17 and below, an apparently spoiled child with “Anger Management Problems” according to a reporter at DIARIO, an Aruban newspaper.
The same fate could have happened to Natalee or your daughter at any nightclub in the USA. Countless women have been given drugs, raped, even murdered in the USA.
The Aruban people genuinely seemed to want to solve this missing person case, and to blame an entire country for the acts of one person (possibly three) is in a word: STUPID. We’re all upset, please focus your anger on the likely criminal, not a country…
I do not blame the country…i am “simply”terribly upset…I wish there were something that I could do for this family…but there is nothing. Nothing.
Rick-
I agree.
What if no one wanted to visit the US because of our track record(OJ???)
Folks….on the radio thay are saying “Info is NOT confirmed”….
Dompig denies to have given any info to the AP. WTH????
native- think they have been priming us dor this since they sent divers home/stopped local daily mass searches/said she was dead but no body/faked some chick in an amazingly similar posture w/ unclear face on gas station camrea ( leaving with an older woman-funny-not a local or young male as the gas clerk tells it)
I wish there was still hope but they have been playing games
Tom, Red and To All…thank you for enduring an emotional release. I try to stay in the background and look to the site for “information”. My apologizes if I offended anyone.
IN opposition to gaijin:
I am sorry, but I just have to speak out. Not to the troll, but the things that gaijin just said can’t go un-opposed!
And for anyone who cares, I am being truthful.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Aruba. To zero in on this one isolated incident is just wrong! Yes, we should be concerned, don’t get me wrong. But to hammer this island for one missing girl, upsetting as it is when any of us go missing, is just wrong.
I percieve Aruba as a place that has taken great pains to establish itself as a cool tourist attraction. Having been there that same week as Natalee, the biggest thing I had to complain about was the extra $3 charge for a taxi on Sunday.
Look, I have been all around the world, to include being at Tienaman square just days before the massacre there. Had I been in Biejing for an extra week, I’d have been ducking bullets. For real.
I’ve been twice to Carnival in Rio de Janeiro, and there is a dangerous place, let me tell you. But kings a queens go there for the world’s biggest party, despite the danger. I also loved it! But watch yourself there.
I’ve travelled throughout southeast asia, south america, and just within the last few years tasted Europe. London is no cake walk either. Beware!
Aruba struck me as a hot but beautiful travel destination. A desert island, who’s people are nice to the point of being almost sweet. Ask yourself, how would you behave if you were this big world travelor? Cautious? You see, there lies the rub.
I never even saw Carlos & Charlies. Is it because my wife and I are old farts? I like to imagine that it’s not because of that. But the kids know where these places are, and they will go there. They will always go there. It’s taboo. So they’re going.
The problem is that they think they are still in the Wisconsin Dells, only it’s hotter. The truth is, they are i a foriegn country, and if you get into trouble in a foriegn country, look out! The Wisconsin police are not there, nobody is going to care about you. After a few days, they might think a crime got commited. If you’re lucky!
Go, go to foriegn countries for a thrill. Go and learn, and don’t go to party. Learn about cultures that are differant from ours, yes, I am all for it. Just don’t learn the hard way.
This is not to put Aruba there. I think Aruba is having growing pains. There I saw a lot I liked, and what country gives the day off for its civil servants to search for one person? Only in Aruba!
Believe me, I would go back to Aruba just based on that. Unheard of careing for Americans. That is really something,
Who didn’t know that the world is a big old ball of spit and vinegar? Anything can happen, at any given moment? Who is being naive? I would never have sent my kids, all grown up now, to party anywhere– though I admit I never fathomed this aspect of Aruba.
In any case, that’s where I stand. Sorry if it seemed like a soap box.
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……
NativeLingo: I so wanted it to be some “unknown”, 6th party somebodies who had Natalee on a remote but neaarby island. May God watch over all of them. Such a shame for so many good peoples lives to be ruined. Next time I’m in Aruba, I’ll be asking any Dutch ladies I encounter if they are you! You’ll know me if you see me , I speak funny, adding /deleting “r’s as I see fit. Thank you for everything. If by chance, this Web site would share my “REAL” e-mail address, I would welcome hearing from you. Thanks again for your help and insight.
NativeLingo – - thanks for understanding. I appreciate it.
I’m back in the background now.
Without fear, I would be honored if NativeLingo would contact me at Densieparzych@msn.com.
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)
Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?
Can anyone have confidence in the Aruba-n hierarchy?
OK, if you do.
Me, not going to Aruba and won’t send my kids there, also.
What’s with these elitest Netherland white boys and their semi-white boy friends? C’mon, get your message toether, please in a coherent stream of sensibility.
CASE SOLVED
This is what really happend :
Holloway , whom comes from alabama and is held short by her parents took oppertunity of her vacation in aruba . There she started her last night with a few drinks and a love on the beach with a hansome guy , and to complete her great night she took a shot of cocaine ( what else does a typical american girl wants ). Only the cocaine was a bad idea and knocked her out with rigor mortis as a result. The boys panicked, young and with reputations to protect and dumped her somewhere on the island . Related with the case they are looking for a 4th person ( presumably the dealer ) .
I can’t help feeling that Natalee’s disappearance was preplaned by a person(s) or owners of the bar, Carlos’N Charlies. Someone there selected her and drugged her for pickup by Joran and his buddies. Joran’s family has perfect inaction with the worst elements on the island because of his father’s occupation. Then a 17 year old, somewhat estanged from his Father and in need of money for his expensive habits sells a nice blond american girl to some bad people. The meeting place was at the light house! How fitting of a place for someone to be pirated away. Make Joran talk. Tell him someone at the bar has pointed him out.
Here is some information for your reading pleasure.
From the U. S. Department of State
Go to website for the big picture… http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/
(U.S. State Dept.) THE NETHERLANDS (TIER 1)
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46614.htm
THE DUTCH CARIBBEAN AUTONOMOUS REGIONS
Anecdotal reporting suggests that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, autonomous regions within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, are transit and destination regions for trafficking of women and children for sexual exploitation. Curacao and Saint Maarten, in particular, reportedly are destination islands for women trafficked for the sex trade from Columbia, the Dominican Republic and Haiti. In Curacao (and neighboring Aruba) observers estimate that 500 foreign women are in prostitution, some of whom may have been trafficked. There are also reports of children being trafficked for sexual exploitation as underage prostitutes, particularly from the Dominican Republic. In September 2004, Curacao prosecuted and sentenced two traffickers who trafficked children from Suriname to Curacao using fraudulent documents. Visas for Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles are issued by Dutch Embassies following review by Aruban or Netherlands Antilles’ authorities. Visa controls were reportedly tightened in 2004. Also in 2004, the Dutch government provided 100,000 Euros to an IOM program focused on awareness raising, information dissemination and regional cooperation targeting officials from the Dutch Caribbean.
SURINAME (TIER 2 — WATCH LIST)
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46616.htm
Suriname is principally a transit and destination country for women and children trafficked for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Men, women, and children are also trafficked internally for forced domestic and commercial labor and sexual exploitation. Most women and girls trafficked for sexual exploitation come from Brazil, the Dominican Republic, Guyana, and Colombia; they either remain in Suriname or continue to Europe for additional sexual exploitation. Girls from rural areas are promised work in cities and then trapped in situations of domestic servitude or sexual exploitation; other children are trafficked for sexual exploitation to mining camps in Suriname’s remote interior. Chinese nationals transiting Suriname risk debt bondage to migrant smugglers who place them into forced labor.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC (TIER 2 — WATCH LIST)
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46613.htm
The Dominican Republic is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation and forced labor. Dominican women and children are trafficked to destinations in Latin America and Europe, including Spain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Greece, the Netherlands Antilles, Argentina, Costa Rica, and Brazil. There are indications that Peruvian women have been trafficked through the Dominican Republic to Italy. Additionally, Haitians are trafficked into the Dominican Republic for forced labor and sexual exploitation. There are reports of an estimated 2,000 Haitian children trafficked into the Dominican Republic annually to work on the street (such as shoe shining), to work in agriculture, or to be exploited in the sex trade. The ILO estimates that 48,000 children are engaged in child labor nationwide.
I took a “vacation” from this case over the weekend and just loved on my own daughters with a lot “there but for the grace of God” feelings.
One of the problems we’ve had is the virtual news blackout and level of secrecy on the part of the Aruban authorities (and those who denigrate even post-9/11 justice in the USA need to consider what our criminal law system would be like if we allowed 116 days of detention based solely on the prosecutor’s “suspicion” – and, yes, I know about Gitmo – we can talk the “Geneva Conventions” some other time) compounded by a number of spurious leaks (a fair number of which seem to go back to Mickey Jones’ attorney, who appears prone to give out information which she believes exculpates her client, regardless of the information’s accuracy). So, it helps, periodically, to go back to what we actually know or reasonably believe is accurate.
We know that Ms. Holloway left C&C sometime between 1:00 and 1:30 AM in the company of the 3 boys, incl: Joran van der Sloot, with whom she had at least a passing acquaintance acquired over the prior couple of days. She was seen to leave with them and waved to some of her friends. Their “impression” was that she was being taken back to the Holiday Inn. Some of her friends say she was not notably drunk. Reportedly some saw her appearing “dazed” or “sick” in the Ladies’ Room at an unspecified point prior thereto. We don’t know which report is accurate.
The boys in question claim to have taken her to a beach and/or lighthouse which the Arubans on here say is about 10-15 minutes away with light or no traffic. The boys claim to have returned her to the Holiday Inn around 2:00 AM, where, take your pick, they let her out and, as she was heading in, she was approached by what they assumed was a security guard in a black uniform (which does not match the uniforms of either the Holiday Inn’s or the Allegros’ staff – the Allegro being where the original two suspects had worked). In some versions she was okay and in other versions she was drunk and falling down (again, we don’t know the truth of the matter) and in some versions the boys left when the “guard” approached and in other versions they watched the guard actually escort her into the H.I. lobby. We know, absolutely, that NONE of the security cameras inside or outside the H.I. substantiate that she returned there or even that the boys’ vehicle was there after they left C&C. Since security cams usually have a running date/time calendar, any erasures should have been immediately apparent and none have been reported.
At points the boys are claimed to have admitted to all of them having sex with her, to one of them having sex with her, to her and Joran doing a bit of kissing in the back seat on the way out to the beach. Again, nobody knows the truth of the matter or if there was ANY sexual conduct at all. At one point, one of the boys supposedly confessed to killing her and, later, that was amended to suggest that he said “something bad happened” out at the beach. None of those alleged stories has been confirmed.
Altho’ blood was reportedly found in association with the car and/or the beach (reportedly on a mattress), that has universally been declared to be (non-human) animal blood. The presence of forensic evidence attributable to Ms. Holloway in the boys’ car is easily explained, if it is found, by her admitted presence in the car.
No body has been found and no confirmed contact with or sighting of Ms. Holloway has been made.
The recent information regarding Mr. Van der Sloot’s “altercation” with some of Ms. Holloway’s friends is a fairly recent report and has not been confirmed. Ditto most of the speculations about Mr. Van der Sloot’s “anger management” issues and even the extent of his father’s status on the Island (he’s been called a “judge”, a “justice ministry official”, and a lawyer who is “studying to be a judge” – one person on here, who seemed to credibly attest to personal information about the Van der Sloots, indicated that they are “definitely not rich” and are “nice people” (incl: Joran). “Friend of Mickey John’s (sic?)” makes similar assertions about him.
That’s it, folks. Everything else is pure conjecture.
Nonetheless, given that, we can certainly say some useful things. She was last seen with the boys. She knew at least one of them and was apparently with them willingly (whether her intent was to go back to the hotel, to go to the beach, or to have a little “make-out session” is unknown, we only know that the boys claim they went to this beach). She has not been seen since.
I do not intimately know the sea conditions and currents around Aruba, but I am an experienced seaman and diver. If she died out on the beach and was put in the water, unless the body was carried out a distance (for which the boys had no means) and heavily weighted, it would float and, most likely, get washed back ashore. It’s not all that easy to dispose of a body at sea (look at the reappearance of Laci Peterson, and she had been wrapped in chicken wire, weighted with concrete, and taken out a ways at a point where the currents are much stronger and the water much deeper and murkier than in the Caribbean). That makes an “ocean disposal” less than entirely likely. On the other hand, Aruba is a desert island, with lots of scrub and brush and caves. I’m mindful of the young man who was killed in Colorado by a mountain lion, back in 1993. A huge group of people went looking for him and they knew, almost to a certitude, where he would have been on a particular trail (less than 100 yards from the school which he attended). Even in those circumstances, it took over 3 days to find his body and the cougar had not made any attempt to drag it off the trail or to hide the body. In short, the fact that no body has been found is hardly dispositive of anything. Nonetheless, that leaves open the possibility that she was shipped off island (and, sorry to those who don’t believe it, but sex slavery does exist) or is in hiding, perhaps out of confusion or humiliation. I don’t subscribe to either notion, but they remain possibilities.
At this point, the most likely surmise is that she did not return from the beach. Did she die out there, accidentally, maybe from drink or being drugged (willingly or unwittingly?) or by drowning, and the boys panicked and hid the body? Was she murdered by one or all of them, because she wouldn’t “put out” for one or all of them? Did the group get “jumped” by some third party who demanded the girl along with the boys’ silence (unlikely, since I think the boys in question would be only too happy to point the finger at someone else, tho’ I suppose it is remotely possible that they might be keeping quiet because the threat was to kill her if they talked – who knows?). One thing is fairly certain, and that is that the boys in question have not been terribly cooperative or fully forthcoming and that fact, alone, raises issues about them and about the nature and extent of their involvement.
At this point, all I can say is that I agree with Ms. Holloway’s mother and that is that these boys KNOW what happened to Ms. Holloway. What the nature of their involvement is and what their degree of culpability may be isn’t known, but I have faith, now that the emphasis has shifted from these two security guards, that an answer will be forthcoming shortly.
Quick update as of 8:10 PM, PDT, 6/13/05. Another bit of info out of Mickey John’s attorney – supposedly, Joran van der Sloot and her client are in adjacent cells (fine police work if that is true – does this whole investigation sound like “Mayberry RFD” to anyone else?) and Mr. Van der Sloot claimed that the two Surinamese boys dropped him off at his house and then left with Natalee Halloway after he and she exchanged e-mail addresses. Same source: the two Surinamese boys supposedly claim that Mr. Van der Sloot dropped them off at their house and departed in company with Natalee. It’s pretty easy to figure out, if either of these stories is true (and this particular attorney is a one-woman rumor mill…), which it is. Whose car was it? If the car was Mr. Van der Sloot’s, what’s the likelihood that he elected to be dropped off while two other guys took off, in his car, with the girl in whom he was interested? I’d give that a low level of probability. Regrettably, I find it hard to credit anything this attorney has said about the case (she’s already announced, without any basis, that one of the boys confessed to murdering Ms. Halloway, and she never bothered to retract that rumor after it was discredited).
That’s the news for what it is worth.
Drainage Ditch.
I find the methods of Van der Sloot’s attorney to be very strange. Why in the world would she come out and say that one of the clients confessed to murduring Ms. Holloway without any basis? And as much as I’d like to believe that the Surinamese brothers are putting a squeeze play on Van der Sloot (and vice versa), I find anything that comes out of the attorney’s mouth hard to believe.
Sometimes I just wonder if the three boys aren’t just making up much of what supposedly happened at the beach. I almost feel that a third party (sex slave pirates/traders?) could be involved in this mess. The three boys might just monkey around by persistently feeding lies to investigators just to throw them off base. If Ms. Holloway was somehow taken in as a sex slave, no body will ever be found on Aruba. No found body would likely=no prosecution for Van der Sloot or his buddies.
How about this? A sort of scenario where the boys are biding their time while a (seemingly) futile investigation continues. The search for a body continues, but Ms. Holloway is never found. Eventually, the maximum length of time that the boys can be held would pass, and they would be let go due to a failed investigation and lack of evidence. At the same time, the boys would know exactly what happened to Natalee but would get off with the failed investigation. And maybe Van der Sloot and his buddies would be making a few bucks from the sex trade.
If these boys are mentally and psychologically tough, then they will be more than willing to sit out the max 160 day holding period while allowing investigators to toil away in their search for Natalee. I really hope that those involved in examining the boys are absolutely ROASTING them. And if methods that are just a hair below torture have to be employed in the examinations, then so be it.
In any case, those who are close to the Holloways (as well as the family) should hope for the best (she’s hiding? ehh…) but prepare for the worst (she’s never found, no closure).
Just throwing a scenario on the wall…
It’s NOT Van der Sloot’s attorney – it’s the attorney for Mickey John (one of the security guards who were originally detained) who is spreading the rumors. I guess she thinks, if she goes out and announces to the world (without any basis that I can tell) that Van der Sloot or his two companions have confessed to killing Ms. Holloway, then, obviously her client (Mickey John) must be innocent and should be released. Either it’s sheer sleeziness or the woman is delusional. I just know, if she were that reckless up here, she’d get disbarred. Be that as it may, her client, I see, has now been released, so maybe she’ll clam up and spare us the baseless rumors. Unfortunately, I suspect she likes the limelight and we’re likely to be treated to even more spurious “facts” out of her ere this is over.
I’ve been arguing that these three young men (only Van der Sloot is a minor, at 17) were the appropriate parties for questioning since the beginning – but let’s be somewhat careful with our theorizing. Lots of folks here were willing to lynch the two security guards after they were picked up, on the basis that they “hung around the hotels trying to pick up women” (shades of Emmett Tibbs…). Now suspicion has settled on Van der Sloot and his companions and the lynch mentality is at it again. That they are material to the investigation is undeniable. What their role in all of this is remains to be seen. The fact is, too, that we only have their word for it that they even went to this particular beach. Maybe the reason the search has been fruitless so far is that they went in a completely different direction. Regrettably, as I noted in the overlong post above, what we know is really quite limited and the amount of disinformation floating around is substantial.
As I noted, there was doubt the 3 suspects were ever at the beach where the searches have been conducted (the timeframes alone raised that issue). Now we hear (6/14/05, 2:00 PM PDT) that they did not, in fact, go there, but, instead dropped off Mr. Van der Sloot and Ms. Halloway at the Marriott’s beach, 4 blocks from her hotel. This information makes contextual sense and maybe the Marriott’s security cameras will show something.
I hate to speculate in a case such as this but given the time frame I would guess they
took her to the gold ruins. obviouslly the opposite of what they claim and surely the
closest drive of intrest to one who obviously was concerned enough about her time
span to pack before going out the night before leaving.
plus if you consider the time they left Carlos ‘n Charlies taking into account the time
of the e-mail (alibie) you would have to consider driving time plus the fact that the
north west part of the island consists of flatland sand and rock features that would make it hard to cover a change in land features without notice.
I believe that with short conversation with each suspect you could decifer the truth
in that the one who talks the most is full of sh!?t and the one who says the least is
hiding something. to take each man out seperately to retrace their step that night
by inconsistancy and personal reaction you could determine who to ask and what;.
ask them not about what happened itself but of natalee herself, what they thought of
her and then it would become clear. for life is not what it appears, where it goes, or
what it does but what way it affects those around it. and by that effect can you tell a
person’s intent.
Her freind saw her at 1:00am and said she was fine, the the brothers say she acted drunk at 2:am. when they dropped her off with Van der sloot, after he changes his story to he date drugged her and she passed out and he got scared and left her there on the beach, the DJ at the boat is the one who sold the drug to the teens Iam betting , did the father
help save his spoiled, punk ass, 6’4, tennis star son from his actions, I belive so, Its just my guess, We all hope and pray for her safe return, This girl should have never been allowed out of sight from her close freinds. These Kids have to be street smarter than this when going out or traveling.
The Island of Aruba has a lot of history and the incident of Natalee created an interest in the location.
It is similar to Key West, Fl.
In our country most law enforcement would have proceeded in a different manner.
Aruba laws are handled in another fashion.
My personal feeling is that any young person who is not street wise should not leave the group they are vacationing with any where.
My thought and prayers are with this young lady and that for her family closure will arrive tomorrow.
I found your blog while searching for Pirates.
Thank you for allowing me to hear how others felt .
MA
does ANYONE know where/how we could get some of the ‘natalee bracelets’???????
e me if so. thanks