Natalee Holloway Information


Our thoughts and prayers are going out for Natalee Holloway. We have a large collection of information on this situation as it has been breaking, and a unique perspective as Red used to live on Aruba and knows the island very well.

There are continual updates and breaking news, see options below.

You have two options to see all of our stories as we have worked on them;

 either scroll down, they are all here, or
Click Here and to see everything all the information we have on Natalee.

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  • Natalee Holloway Comments Post 6
  • Natalee Holloway Comments Post 4
  • Natalee Holloway Information IV

  • Comments

    244 Responses to “Natalee Holloway Information”

    1. Gabriel Leo on June 5th, 2005 5:23 pm

      As an Arubian, I am very disappointed about the rumors that the international press is publishing about the happenings here on the island. CNN, Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS etc all are bringing the news to the world as it unfolds. It even surprises the locals that certain news is published on international media before it’s published on local media. The Aruban Government it’s giving 100% cooporation. The ministers of the island (Prime minister, Minister of Justice, Minister of tourism) Are giving their 100% support in the search for Natalee here on the Island. I as a Local am deeply schocked about the disappearing. We as Arubians are happy to live here on the island and we believe that we are truly blessed bij having a low criminality rate, we truly think we live in Paradise!
      We all must be realistic about what is beeing said on the Media. We have crime here on the island, WHO DOESN”T!
      We have tourist who have been coming to Aruba for over 20 to 30 years to the island. When they are asked whey they come to the Island the two reason which they give are the Hopitality of our people and the safety that one gets just by being on the Island!

      So please! The media and those who follow the news from my Island must not believe everything that is said. CNN reported that Aruba has a dark side. It’s an Island which is ruled by drugs from Colombia and latin prostitutes which invade the island trying to go to Europe via Aruba. NOT TRUE! The media is just blowing the news out of proportion just to make the news more interesting. Sadly these wrong doing is just affecting our reputation and our tourism. Ask Any one you know! What they think about Aruba. I’M SURE that you will be told other!!!

      We truly hope and pray that Natalee returns and the Aruban People believe she will return in good health. But we are not at all happy with the international press who are publishing News Without Verifying the story and making sure it’s true! I Guess that’s the only way they think they could get some attention!

    2. Red on June 5th, 2005 5:36 pm

      Gabriel Leo

      I am sure much of what you have said is true, probably most. I have been going to the island for years, but it has changed. Obviously any place is going to have crime; however, this is a biggy.

      The majority of Aruban people I have met and know are great people. Unfortunately there is 3-5% bad everywhere. This just happens to be wrong place wrong time and Aruba just happens to be the place. Much like the reason why Aruba has flourished so much as opposed to the others in the ABC islands.

      Things happen and consequences occur from them.

      I know that you want to paint a great picture and Aruba is great for tourism but it has problems and issues like any country. There is a big prison on the island and most people in it are there on drug related charges.

      I am sure Arubans are concerned about Natalee and I am sure the the MSM will take a cynical approach. That’s what they do. We deal with them 24-7. However, one cannot be naive in the fact that a tourism island and its government officials are not looking at the big picture. The US represents 75% of Aruba’s tourism … Gabriel Leo that does alter people’s perspective.

      Glad you commented and tell your friends to as well, we want local reaction to this. Good job.

    3. George Vreeland Hill on June 5th, 2005 5:48 pm

      Join the on-line search for Natalee Ann Holloway.
      This free Yahoo group is open 24/7.

    4. Tamara Waldron on June 5th, 2005 7:13 pm

      THanks Gabriel! As an American citizen living in Aruba, and having lived in the U.S. for nearly 10 years I can assure you that most of us are looking at the big picture and we share the concerns of Natalee’s family and friends.
      Howver, looking at the picture does not mean blaming the island or its people….we should keep looking at the big picture which does involve at looking at other possibilities, other than a crime, for the dissapearance of the 18 year old.
      So far there has not been any indication of a murder, a kidnapping etc and we should all stick together and help in searching for his girl instead of assuming things and smearing Aruba on the news.
      I do believe she will be found as there have been numerous sightings of Natalee, which indicate more that this is a runaway case than any other….of course we don’t know for sure, but we must leave the windows of numerous possibilities open.

    5. Juvenal on June 5th, 2005 9:02 pm

      The people of Aruba, and the island’s tourism industry are not at fault here.

      But they are in an unfortunate situation, geographically speaking. As the U.S. state dept. has noted, Aruba is a way station on drug-trafficking routes. The prison there has issues because of the large number of islanders who are incarcerated for drug-related crimes.

      Additionally, the island is less than 20 miles from the coast of Venezuela, which has earned the State Department’s worst rating (3rd tier) for trafficking in human beings for the purposes of prostitution in the Western Hemisphere.

      Also, a Birmingham source has said that Aruban police identified one of the men whom Natalee left the Carlos and Charley’s club with Monday night was a drug dealer (in some of the reports there was only one man present at the club that was seen talking to Natalie). One of these three men (we’re not sure which one) is the son of a judge there.

      I have no doubt that most of the people in Aruba are wonderful, and they are demonstrating that by their concern and their assistance in the search for this missing girl. But, with all I’ve learned over the past 48 hours or so, my opinion is that Aruba has a serious problem with crime.

    6. John Doe on June 6th, 2005 7:17 am

      Sadly, the situation isn’t looking so good for this girl. Lets ask, “Why?”. She appears to be a smart “party chick.” Yes, this A-student seems to have embraced the bar scene in Aruba and met up with the wrong people. At 18 you can’t drink in the US; yet she was at a bar in Aruba. Not such a smart A-student in my opinion. It is my assumption that she snuck away from her group to party. Again, not such a bright act.

      It is my firm opinion that she has been assaulted and murdered. For a smart kid, she is pretty damn dumb!

    7. danny btee on June 6th, 2005 7:46 am

      QUOTE: It is my firm opinion that she has been assaulted and murdered. For a smart kid, she is pretty damn dumb!

      So true, John Doe. Without judging her, and how it all came down, she was pretty stupid for a smart girl. My guess is she was high on beer or maybe date rape drug, and lost her judgment at a crucial time in her way short life. Way way short. 18 and an angel among us. Sad.

      When will people ever learn? NEVER. This will happen again and again. The men or man who killed her should be hung upside down forever and rot in deep hell. Sick man.

    8. Tony.... on June 6th, 2005 9:29 am

      Although opinions are like belly buttons, everybody’s got one…..Please keep in mind that family and friends of Natalie are reading this board as well. So keep that in mind when you type your words and offer your personal speculation of what happened….

      We are praying for a safe return for Natalie…Our thoughts and prayers go out to the famaily and friends…


    9. Tom Holladay on June 6th, 2005 9:41 am

      Aruba is heavily dependent on gambling, attracts lots ot monied gamblers from Colombia and Venezuela. Island also depends heavily on labor from the mainland for service industry. There have been reports in the past of heavy mafia involvement in the economy. None of this helps explain why Natalee disappeared but could. Likely scenario is that she went into or was dropped off at the wrong hotel in a confused state (drunk or drugged) and was taken advantage of by the security guards at the empty hotel being renovated then dumped in the ocean. She could also have been whisked off the island in the yacht or Learjet of some fat cat. Who knows? TH

    10. CeeCee on June 6th, 2005 9:55 am

      I was at Carlos & Charlies this past November. I was there with my husband and glad for it. When we were walking in there were men standing around outside that made me feel uncomfortable. We didnt eat there but as the night wore on it was a loud music and dance place with island drinks. During the night they would pull 4-5 women from the audience and they would go up on the stage to do drinking games and be filmed. I was surprised by this as they obviously were drunk and they were giving out there names and where they lived (by country so the audience would know they were tourists) When leaving we did get into a locals car and was driven back to our hotel the Radisson with another couple we were with. Why we got into this car is beyond me. I know at that hour the bus is shut down and would have to take a cab to the hotel. He said he would drive us for free. This is the type of environment that exists here on the island. I did not like the atmosphere in this area at closing time. I would not like to be out in front of Carlos and Charlies at closing time again. I just got a bad feeling.
      Aruba has a one bus line service, they have cabs and they also have a cab service that is not condoned by Aruba, they run the bus route and beep the horn and is cheaper than a taxi.
      I truely hope and am praying for Natalee to be ok. I pray that she shows up today. For her loved ones sakes.

    11. MBM on June 6th, 2005 10:23 am

      I am a 23 year old Aruban female. In my opinion this girl went with men on her own consent. These guys are smooth talkers and for tourists it is appealling to be sweet talked in our beautiful island. They know what to say and where to go. If anyone knows about a girl disappearance last summer they know these guys have a power over the naive ladies.

    12. Amy on June 6th, 2005 10:24 am

      That she made a dumb mistake? Yes, who really knows.
      But isn’t her death or kidnapping to high of a price to pay, for a mistake?
      As an eighteen-year-old you make a lot of mistakes, one bigger than the other but it is a part of growing up. It’s one way to learn and become a better person, because you made mistakes.
      I put myself in her shoes, I might have done the same thing, I don’t know
      Maybe drink to much, then go out and spend more time with the guy you’re really into.
      It’s a risk she took and I do believe that there is a lot of girls out there taking risks like that. As an eighteen-year-old you are just that naive to think something bad is going to happen to you, while you are having such fun.

    13. J. Alea on June 6th, 2005 10:27 am

      This unfortunately seems to be another statistic of being a beautiful girl in the wrong place/wrong time. I have been to Aruba once and was actually at Carlos and Charlie’s late at night and it does bring out some questionable characters.

      My prayers go out to this girl and her family. No amount of wild partying should put you in this type of peril. It was extremely foolish, but young people do foolish things.

      If it is found she is the victim of foulplay, I hope the Netherlands do something harsh to show that this type of action will not be tolerated in such place as Aruba.

    14. Red on June 6th, 2005 11:01 am


      Yes it may be a terrible price to pay for poor judgment. And it may not be fair, but what thing liek this is? I vacationed on Aruba when I was 18 and younger and did the typical stuff the those of us do at that age. However, Aruba was a much different place then. It was crazy but nothing like what it has turned into and was on a smaller scale.

      The point here for you as you are of that age and all others similar to you is that sometimes the consequences don’t fit the action; however, such heavy consequences do exist for risky behavior. Sometimes its just wrong place wrong time.

      You make an interesting point:
      “It’s a risk she took and I do believe that there is a lot of girls out there taking risks like that. As an eighteen-year-old you are just that naive to think something bad is going to happen to you, while you are having such fun.”

      That’s why you are supposed to have friends looking out for you as well so you don’t make the stupid mistake. Amy, I don’t know you but I do know teen just like you with the attitude “nothing can happen”. I will tell you what I tell them, “Please don’t ever get into a car with 3 strangers”. You have no idea who they are.

      Keep up the comments, like the perspective of an 18 year old from Aruba.

    15. John Doe on June 6th, 2005 11:02 am

      The facts… The girl went to Aruba. Away from Mom & Dad, she went wild. Boozing it up and screwing around with the local men. Hey, this is a rich daddy’s girl from an afluent town. Went left on her own devices she chose to booze it up. Sadly, and I do mean sadly, she appears to have been taken advantage of. It is terrible, but in my opinion, the rich girl created her own mess.

      Also, what normal parent (yes, I am a parent) has their naive blond daughter go to party-town Aruba where it booze, sex and more booze? Bet the Dad would say “She earned this trip.” Yes, and look where it got her. Where were these parents heads? I would never let my 17 or 18 year old go to Aruba or Ft. Lauderdale with their senior class. But, then again, I take responsibility for what my child does and where he goes.

      If you stick your head in a septic tank; don’t complain that it stinks!


    16. Deep Throat on June 6th, 2005 11:08 am

      In reading the comments, I must agree with John Doe. She is probably dead and likely sexually assaulted. I blame the parents. As Dr. Phil would say “What were they thinking?” The world can be a deadly place and sadly, this girl has probably paid the ultimate price.

      Something to think about… If this was a child of color, would it have gotten this much attention? Sadly, probably not. And why is the FBI in Aruba? Do you think this would have happened for just anyone.

      Make you kind of wish that Natalee and the run-away bridge could switch places!

      Deep Throat

    17. B.B Jewell on June 6th, 2005 11:08 am

      I am truly sorry for this girls family and friends, they are having to hear all this harsh judgement constantly.I think it only serves to lose the focus, pray for Natalee, do not judge her or actions.Keep her up front and continually in your prayers.
      Has her family consulted a psychic yet?

    18. Deep Throat on June 6th, 2005 11:11 am

      B.B., come on, get a life. — consulted a psychic yet. Did it take you long to think of the psychic suggestion? GO back to bed, smoke your cigarette and have a coffee.

    19. Odds Are on June 6th, 2005 11:16 am

      This girl has probably been raped and killed. And for what, some idiot’s fantasy.

      I too wonder why parents would let their child go to a location known where the drinks flow. I hope they donate the $50K reward money to some good charity when this is all over.

      If it was me, the parents should have their heads examined! And where were the parent escorts? These foks should be up on negligence charges.


      Sincerely, Odds Are

    20. chris on June 6th, 2005 11:18 am

      I was in Aruba last week and saw the “class trip”. It was a recipe for disaster. Where were the “chaperones” when the kids were boozing it up and falling over drunk? Where were Natalee’s “friends” who admittedly saw her leave the bar/restaurant (by herself) with 3 local men. Are they really “friends”? Maybe Natalee is an A-student with a full scholarship to U of Alabama, and maybe she is not streetwise and is overly trusting, but she failed to use good judgement and her “chaperones” and “friends” failed as well. Natalee may be responsible for her own demise by making ill-fated decisions, but her travelmates did little to protect her .

    21. Amy on June 6th, 2005 11:37 am

      It’s 11.35 A.M in Aruba and at this moment there is a press conference going on.
      Anyone want to listen it live go to and there are several radiostations. Click any of them and I do believe they are transmetting live.
      You’ll need realplayer

    22. kk on June 6th, 2005 11:41 am

      I just wanted to say a few things. I have lived in Birmingham, AL my entire life. I myself was a strong academic and involved student. I am not too much older than Natalee. Mt. Brook is the most wealthy community in the city. I did not live in that area. I grew up in the communtiy that was right next to Mt. Brook. I know how traditionaly southern our town is, I know how unbelievably important reputation is around here. I went to Auburn University and was in a great sorority there. I read she was interested in pledging at Alabama. I can promise you it is harder to get into a sorority there than any other school in the south. I promise you she knew to walk a fine line even if only to get into a sorority. It is a very big deal around here. I truely belive that she was drugged. It happens so often unfortunately. Birmingham is very safe when you are in the right areas, but things do happen here. She should have been used to being careful and probably was trying to be careful. Don’t blame her parents either. Everyone I know went on a Senior Trip. THey did nothing any other parent has not done. You have to let kids grow up. I know people who completely live on their own at that age. You can tell alot about a person from looking at their friends. I have seen so many of her classmates on the local news. They have appeared to be so caring and the things that come out of their mouths are genuine. You can tell a lot about a person by looking at their friends and they have impressed me. I truely belive she has been a victim of a terrible crime.

    23. G on June 6th, 2005 11:46 am

      No one knows what happened yet. She was at a night club, where lots of young men and women of many nationalities party and get drunk and do stupid things. Ok so she might have been one of them (got drunk left with people she didn’t know). Point is this sort of behavior happens at bars and nightclubs all over the world and people know this, this does not make her smart or stupid or dumb! She might have made a mistake, that’s it. Anyway a mistake of this nature does not justify being kidnapped or worse if this turns out to have happened.
      Secondly, to say that Aruba has a serious crime problem based on the last 48 hrs. of news is as absurd a statement as i have ever heard. Aruba’s crime rate is substantially lower than most other countries in the world. Violent crime is almost non-existent. Drugs, sure we have a drug problem on some level, along with 99% of the rest of the world. That Aruba is misused by some neigboring countries as a transhipment point is a fact. That the government is doing eveything to stop this is also a fact. Fyi we have US coastguard ships patrolling close to Aruban territorial waters as well. When will people realize that bad things will happen regardless of our (anyone’s) best efforts. Not everything has to be blamed on someone/thing and not eveything is preventable!
      I just wish the family of Natalee streght and I still have some hope that she’ll reappear alive and well.
      Aruban 35 years old, married to a US citizen and living in Aruba.

    24. JD on June 6th, 2005 11:49 am

      Please update us on what comes out of the webcast.

      There’s blame to go around here. Most of us probably went on a senior trip of some sort and probably did the same things these kids were doing more or less. So its hard to blame the parents but if I had an attractive daughter like that, I’d probably chaperone. As it was the last day, the kids probably wanted to go a little extra nuts—you need to remember how you were when you were 18. If I were a chaperone and had to get 100 or so kids to the airport the next day—I’d probably pack it in early the night before. They also can’t be everywhere. The friends are probably the most to blame. I wouldn’t let my guy friends get in a car with three strangers much less an attractive woman. Most of us get away with using bad judgment most of the time—she didn’t

    25. JD on June 6th, 2005 11:55 am

      PS–I do find it interesting that all the AP and other wire reports witewashed the whole sex on the beach aspect. Perhaps it was out of respect to the parents but that’s never stopped the press before.

    26. Amy on June 6th, 2005 12:01 pm

      Basically what came out from the news conference that ended at 11.49 AM, is what the police is asking the public of Aruba today.

      The Arubian Government declared today “National Natalee Holloway Day” which means that everybody that works for the government of Aruba has more or less the day off from work to go and recruit in a town called Santa Cruz. There they’ll be forming search parties and then send off to different parts of the island to search for Natalee Holloway. The 10th, 11th and 12th graders of all highschools will also be joining the search parties.
      The search start around 2 PM, local time

      Also there was enphasis on the American media that has been destributing information and new that aren’t accurate.
      More to come.

    27. Bill on June 6th, 2005 12:19 pm

      Just a thought… is it possible that the three young men as well as Natalee herself, only thought she was being dropped off at her hotel? After a full day of partying and into the morning, I can see how the exhausted group could have mistaken the renovating place for her hotel. And then what?

    28. Charlie Maxwell on June 6th, 2005 12:20 pm

      This is the case of a rich girl who got tanked up and got in trouble. Maybe they drugged her, maybe not. WHAT IN GOD’s NAME WAS SHE DOING THERE?

      Daddy should have his head examined for having his daughter go on this trip. Mom looks like a dope too.

      This is a case of the idiot family with $$$$$. Maybe there are related to Micahel Jackson?


    29. Juvenal on June 6th, 2005 12:21 pm

      We’ve all done stupid things. The way we look at it, we all probably did a lot more dumb things when we were Natalee’s age. But even us old-timers (I’m 33) make stupid mistakes every day. Fallibility is part of being human.

      I agree with the people who say that this whole trip was ill-advised from the beginning. Seven chaperones to over 100 17 and 18 year olds was a recipe for disaster to start with. And allowing that many of them to get together and drink basically unsupervised is a frightening prospect. Even a level-headed kid like Natalee, with all the social pressures on her (wants to join a sorority in the fall, wants to be a doctor, etc.) will do dumb things, especially right around that age.

      Anyone here from Aruba might not have liked to see my earlier post about Aruba and the crime there. Well, I still stand by what I said. What I didn’t say, and should have, is that this probably could just as easily have happened to her if her class had simply gone to Panama City for their senior trip, as my senior class did.

      Was the trip a bad idea? Yes, but not specifically because it was to Aruba.

      Did Natalee make some incredibily dumb decisions that night? No doubt.

      But there has never, ever in the history of the world been a rape victim or a murder victim or a kidnapping victim who created the conditions for the crime committed against him or her.

      Any girl can make poor decisions as to dress, getting in a car with strangers, walking alone in bad neighborhoods, etc. But if something happens, only the criminal is responsible for the crime.

      Think about it.

    30. Juvenal on June 6th, 2005 12:27 pm

      By the way, I don’t know her, so its impossible to say for sure, but I am very skeptical of the three guys’ story that they ALL had consensual sex with her that night.

      I don’t buy it. We have conflicting reports about whether she left with ONE of the guys or all three of them. What if she thought she was “going to the beach” with just one of them, and SURPRISE!! he stops to pick up his two buddies on the way there?

      A bad business. And I think the three guys know the two “security guards” (one of whom apparently is no longer a security guard at the Allegro) who are now in an Aruban jail.

    31. Scared Monkeys » » Aruban Authorities Announce Island Search on June 6th, 2005 12:45 pm

      [...] th the family.” Also as prviously mentioned by one of our Aruban commenter’s, Amy. Basically what came out from the news conference that ended at 11.49 AM, is what the poli [...]

    32. mrs. red on June 6th, 2005 12:57 pm

      John Doe,
      You should PRAY nothing like this EVER happens to any of your loved ones, some of your comments are incredibly harsh for someone who DOES NOT know the girl or family.
      You stated:
      “Hey, this is a rich daddy’s girl from an afluent town. Went left on her own devices she chose to booze it up. Sadly, and I do mean sadly, she appears to have been taken advantage of. It is terrible, but in my opinion, the rich girl created her own mess.”

      Quite frankly, I don’t think whether she is rich or not amounts to a hill of beans. This could have happened to any kid and as some of the other posts point out – does on a regular basis.

      You should thank GOD you don’t know the family’s anguish of (probably losing) a loved one.

      Every one questions the chaperones and friends…. so do I. I know when I was that age (& older) my friends and I watched each other’s backs just so this kind of tragedy didn’t occur, but having said that, being older I thank GOD everyday that some of my stupidty when I was young didn’t have such awful consquences.

      Here’s a thought for everyone though as far as the judgement of these kids – with “role models” such as Paris Hilton that the media loves and tells kids they should emulate … do you actually wonder about why kids act like they do? AND NO – I AM NOT SAYING THAT PARIS HILTON HAD ANY HAND IN THIS… I am merely trying to point out how things have changed for kids that age and all they are bombarded with.

    33. JD on June 6th, 2005 1:09 pm

      It is very different today. I’m not a prude but kids dress and act differently today than when I was a teen (I’m 36). My 14 y/o babysitter showed up last week in a skirt that was two inches long—that’s to babysit. I imagine what she wears to attract boys. And she seems fairly levelheaded. I’m generally quite the liberal but I do think there is an issue with morals in this country. (Look at the Madonna videos which were “shocking” in my time, they’re quite tame by todays’ standards) Plenty of blame to go around there as well. But that’s a whole different discussion.

    34. Red on June 6th, 2005 1:23 pm


      We are hovering around the same generation and I hear you. I am no prude either and have done Aruba since 8 yrs old. Many a teen trip there and used to go by myself when I dated a girl from there. She is still there, name will be unnamed to protect the innocent. It was a different time.

      Things were fun and out there but not crazy. I will reiterate as many have previously said, Arubians are great fun people. Met some truly great people over the years. However, that does not mean there is not evil there as well. You just have to use your head.

      People think when the are on vacation they are in a vacuum. Aruba is not closed all-inclusive like other islands. That was always its charm. Aruba’s number just happened to come up. Doesn’t make it right or wrong or condemning against the island. It was just the law of averages with this type of behavior mixed with alcohol and the pervasive attitude that nothing can ever happen.

      It is a different world. I would never think of doing half the things today that I did when I was 18. Hell when I went to Aruba as a teen there used to be drive thru liquor stores where they would hand you an open bottle.

    35. Tomahawk on June 6th, 2005 1:24 pm

      Here Here Mrs. Red!

    36. AlabamaGuy on June 6th, 2005 1:57 pm

      I was watchng one of the national news stations coverage of this and one person said, “she was drinking too much and left with strangers, what do you expect?”

      Well, I tell you what I expect. I expect to go on vacation and come home alive. I expect people not to kill other people. I don’t think those are unreasonable expectations. So all of the “she was dumb and asking for it” comments truly tell us how low we have placed out societal standards. Are we saying bcause the girl was blond and attractive and wearing alluring clothes that these guys “couldn’t help but rape and kill her?” Wow. That says a great deal about our sensitivity.

      Incidentally, I know this girl and her family. I have lived my entire life here in Mtn. Brook, and this Aruba trip was the fifth or sixth year in a row that the Mtn Brook High School seniors took a trip to Aruba. And each time, the kids came back to Alabama without one of the kids having been murdered or raped. So was it too much to expect for the same result this year? As far as who was at fault (parents, chaperones, etc) in a couple of short months, Natalee was going off to college, where there are bars and drugs and booze and testosterone-filled young men, not unlike her week in Aruba. So if this had happened on the campus of the Univerity of Alabama, are the parents to blame for that too?

      If there is foul play involved, the only people to blame are those who commited this awful crime.

    37. Michael on June 6th, 2005 2:10 pm

      Any resort in the Carribean is going to have a darker side that is not published or promoted by you local travel agency. An 18 year old girl, no matter what her race, intellect, or other characteristics, who gets into a car with people she doesn’t know and decides to leave her friends behind is asking for trouble.

      I have been to Aruba once before and have plans to actually travel there again in the very near future. If leaving our hotel( Allegro last time ), we either stayed near the high rises, or went in groups, via the kukoo kunucku or other tour groups.

      It would have been no problem to stay at one of these bars expecting tourists and stay and party all night, but we all decided to travel as , what did i say?, a GROUP.

      Unfortunately this young woman has had something unfortunate fall upon her. Whether just alchohol or perhaps a date-rape drug or some type, her mind was obviously clouded.

      What I would point out is that I not only blame whomever is obviously responsible for her disappearance, but more-so I blame her friends. They should have never let themselves become seperated and they should have never let her leave.

      Perhaps there was a group that distracted her friends while she was abducted, we may never know. I hope her friends carry Natalee’s weight on their shoulders for their lifetime for letting Natalee down in Aruba.

    38. Linda on June 6th, 2005 2:12 pm

      This brings to mind the question… how many are too many?

      While Aruba is a relatively safe location to live/visit as are many, many towns and cities are across the world… a murder is, well… still a murder. And one is too many.

      I don’t believe the media is blowing a murder out of proportion… I only wonder why every murder in every city/town/community isn’t covered with such fervor yet we (as societies) decide to spend precious time on Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie instead…

      One murder is too many if it is yours that has been murdered.

      And yes, I know I’ve said she was murdered, there is little doubt that… statistically speaking… she is still alive.

    39. Leslie on June 6th, 2005 2:16 pm

      This is to John Doe and Danny Btee. It saddens me to see what you have written about this girl. People make mistakes it is not her fault in any way. I hope and pray this does not happen to your family and if it does I am sure you would feel a differnt way about this situation and would watch how you run your mouth about this girl. To the family and friends I am truly sorry about what happend and my family and church’s thoughts and prayers are with you

    40. Michael on June 6th, 2005 2:25 pm

      Also to the parents of these and future teenagers going to spring break, and these end of the school year trips.

      Your children will be drinking, having sex, and participating in questionable behaviour.

      That means your child too!

      Please realize this when you teenager asks you to spend the money on their trip next Spring-Break!

    41. TLC on June 6th, 2005 2:25 pm

      For all the craziness Natalee may or may not have done, she did not DESERVE to have anything bad happen to her. I am a mother of a 19 year old daughter and I aged by simply some of the things she has done, things the she now herself realizes were stupid and dumb for some one who is otherwise well adjusted and smart. In my heart of hearts I believe Natalee is still alive, maybe she’s hiding out for reasons only she knows a bout. As for the family I pray for you and your child that she will be returned to you safe and sound. I also pray for Aruba, where I live and call home, we will get through this!

    42. B.B Jewell on June 6th, 2005 2:29 pm

      Whats wrong with suggesting a psychic,keep an open mind, they are trying to find this beautiful young woman , so any means is a potential avenue for information,and I do not think it can hurt, and it may help.

    43. Marybeth on June 6th, 2005 2:36 pm

      Our prayers are with Natalee’s parents, family and friends.
      I understand Natalee is a great Christian girl.
      Our prayers in Mississippi go out to this family and we pray she is found soon.
      MB in Oxford, Mississippi

    44. SS on June 6th, 2005 2:51 pm

      Thank you Mrs. Red! As a growing young woman, (I’m 46 now), I remember my parents last words whenever I left the house “please be careful”. It always had a great impact on me, (and still does) as those words would play in my head. It’s not to say that I did not make my share of mistakes, but that phrase would make me think twice. A few years back I took a solo trip to Costa Rica, during the day I took trips sponsored by the hotel, nights were spent in the hotel. Of course I would have loved to rent a car on my own and tour the country, and I would have liked to spend evenings at other places than the hotel. However, being a solo traveler I opted for what I felt was a safer choice, who knows what I would have done at 18. Truth is, this can happen anywhere. You can’t put children in a bubble, you have to allow them to grow and experience things, and you have hopefully given them the tools to do so. Put the blame where it belongs, with the wrongdoer. My heart goes out to the family and friends of Natalee. I pray for her safe return.

    45. freya on June 6th, 2005 3:15 pm

      Put the blame where it belongs, on the perpetrators of this crime.So often in our society we revictimize the person hurt. This young woman is the victim of a crime, abduction,kidnapping assault, or worse, focus on that, not on blaming her, her friends, the parents, the chaperones, that can all be rehashed later, but for now focus on the criminal and prayer for Natalee.
      In some of the posts its almost as if you are saying this is her fault.
      Who has not been 18 and used some poor judgment,but the blame for this situation rests on the perpetrator(s)

    46. Juvenal on June 6th, 2005 3:32 pm


      Exactly right.

    47. Kortnie on June 6th, 2005 4:01 pm

      The problem here is that men frequently rape and then murder women in every country on the globe.

      This is not a “geographical” problem. Rather, it is a GENDER problem. Why do men rape and then murder girls and women, even female infants? I don’t know, but it’s fact that they do. I myself am a victim of rape and near-murder. I have been shedding tears for Natalee. I know the horror involved.

      By the way, John Doe, I was sleeping inside my house when this guy broke in, so STOP blaming Natalee for what has obviously happened to her – rape and murder. A female can be inside her home or be out “partying” and EITHER WAY she can be raped and murdered. Do you understand that? John Doe and other harsh critics of Natalee, as men you will NEVER know the abject fear, horror, and absolute terror that Natalee went through before she died. SO SHUT UP WITH YOUR MISOGYNIST IGNORANCE, JERK! Poor Natalee was also apparently gang-raped. My heart is broken for her and her family.

    48. Jane Doe on June 6th, 2005 4:03 pm

      If we could teach our daughters one thing, it would be “it CAN happen to you”. Be ever vigilant and trust your instincts.

      I agree, the chaperone’s and “friends” didn’t do their job. Friends don’t let friends go off with strangers, even if you say you want to go.

    49. Biff Malibu on June 6th, 2005 4:21 pm

      Alright, lets get to the nitty gritty here. A sad and unfortunate event, one that will most likely end in tragedy. However, her life will have meant nothing if we don’t come away with some learnings. So here we go: First, am I the only one that thinks taking a bunch of seniors (17 and 18 year olds) to Aruba on a senior trip is a bit over the top??? It’s just asking for trouble in my opinion. And then, the million dollar questions: Where were the chaparones when she was dancing and partying at the nightclub?? Where were the chaparones when she was leaving the nightclub with three strangers?? Where were her so called friends when she was leaving the nightclub with three strange men?? Seems to run contrary to everything I’ve ever been taught. When kids are traveling, ALWAYS have a buddy. Travel in groups. Stick together. These truths are your safety net.

      Yes, the perpetrators of this crime should be strung up and left for dead. But for the chaparones to allow these kids to go to this environment unsupervised with no curfew and no means to get safely back to the hotel is inexcusable. And for here friends to let here leave alone with three strangers is unforgiveable.

    50. Bill on June 6th, 2005 4:25 pm

      My wife and I visited Aruba for the first time that same week (as Natalee). We had a great trip, and our hearts go out to the Holloway family, and of course, hope is that Natalee is found.

      I can honestly say that the people of Aruba are indeed friendly, almost sweet, and were much more helpful than most anywhere I’ve traveled.

      Their willingness to help out in these circumstances is astounding. I’m hearing now that Aruba’s civil servants are joining the search en masse, along with those who have already been scouring the island all week. I can’t think of many other places where that would happen. Impressive!

      If anything about this could stick in my craw, though, it would be the time that went by before this level of effort kicked off. In defense of the authorities, it’s a pretty laid back place. On a bus tour of the island, our guide talked about how some tourists come and never do leave. I’m paraphrasing here, but it went something like this:
      “You can even find work here, but the immigration officials will come one day and ask you for your work permit. If you have left it at the hotel, they’ll give you a ride to the hotel. And if you don’t have one, they’ll also give you a ride– to the airport.”

      It makes me wonder, when I hear quotes like that and those of Commissioner Jan van der Straaten, “After four or five days you are afraid a crime has been committed.” Yes, indeed. How much time did go by before a real search was started? I get that Aruba is laid back, and cases of people not wanting to leave are common, but Natalee’s bags were packed along with her passport. The authorities could see that on day one. Why would it take “four or five days” to wonder if there might be a crime?

      It’s not known to me for a fact, but it also sounds like all of the “chaperones” left on their chartered jet last week. If that’s true, they’ll just have to live with that. I sure hope I’m wrong about that and that I just got the wrong impression, and at least one stayed behind to raise hell and get the ball rolling looking for Natalee.

      The place is also spitting distance from Venezuela. You only have to take one look at the US State Department’s travel advisory on Venezuela “Safety and Security” section to see why we did not even consider our usual day trip to neighboring places. You can see Venezuela from Aruba, it’s that nearby. Hopefully, private inquiries are underway, and reward offers being made in there as well.

      We’ve combed our film of the trip, but alas, not one picture of Natalee. Guess our paths never crossed at the same time. I wish we could have offered something useful, but our prayers and hopeful thoughts for Natalee and her family are certainly there. I would only add that the people of Aruba are to be commended for the effort that was and especially is now underway. That is something!

    51. Amy on June 6th, 2005 4:49 pm

      Small update

      After a mass of Arubian residence arrived at the sports stadium “Sporthall” in Santa Cruz at 2 PM, Trudy Hassel the person in charged of dispensing the many volunteers to different parts of the island.

      The first group of Arubian civilians are heading to the town of Seroe Colorado by bus, specifically to the area known as Colony, known of having American and local residence.
      In colony they’ll be searching thoroughly in rundown houses that have been standing there for quite a few decades.

      Packed with water and wooden sticks each group will be lead by 5 Dutch marines.
      What is truly remarkable is that the groups not only consists of Arubian civilians but also volunteers from the local coast guards, Dutch marines, paramedics and police (not on shift). As a reporter described the situation ‘incredible’.

      The search officialy started around 2.30 PM in the Seroe Colorado area.
      And many more groups are spread around in different districts of Aruba in search of Natalee. Even the roads are stuck by the amount of traffic leading to the localities being searched.

      In my opinion: Amazing!

    52. Ken on June 6th, 2005 4:53 pm

      I love Aruba. I hope she is found.

      Check out How to Gamble in America ::

    53. Big Black on June 6th, 2005 4:54 pm

      She just couldnt say no (DELETED).

    54. Juvenal on June 6th, 2005 5:01 pm

      Last two posts:

      Lovely: A shill and a troll.

      To Amy: Thanks for your country’s help in trying to find her. We realize that most Arubans are great people, and you guys are showing that to be true right now.

    55. chris on June 6th, 2005 5:01 pm

      hey alabama guy; the minimum age in usa is 21 years. get a group of 18 year olds together and no effective chaperoning and they were drunk on the 1st day within hrs of getting off the plane in aruba. Sure, Natalee was going to college later this year and yes, she would have been enticed to do drugs, alcohol, sex, etc., but if not surrounded completely by drunken teenagers, and perhaps having sensible friends who would not drink themselves into a stupor, then this fiasco would not replay itself in alabama. hopefully, she has “run away” because the alternative is devastating but the whole thing could have been avoided with more adult supervision (hint. if they were too old for chaperoning, then why were chaperones accompanying them)

    56. Tom on June 6th, 2005 5:03 pm


      I edited the troll, we do not need that today. Shills, well that is the price of being popular, but they are not offensive.

    57. Kortnie on June 6th, 2005 5:09 pm

      IMO, you need to edit “BB” completely.

    58. Kortnie on June 6th, 2005 5:11 pm

      Tom, please remove that evil “BB.” NOW!

      Thank You.

    59. WOIMB on June 6th, 2005 5:34 pm

      AlabamaGuy is right. We have taken this trip for years, and no one has gotten hurt. There’s no point in placing blame. The fact is, this is a tragedy and is rare. We think she’s alive. Keep praying.

    60. Phil on June 6th, 2005 5:51 pm

      I have to support Biff Malibu…so many on this board seem to make this out to be “what everyone does”…get drunk, run off with strange men (oh she was naà ¯ve, did not know what the men wanted…o please). This is a sad commentary on America.

      We need to honor Natalee with the truth that this behavior is not acceptable and this is what happens (sad but true). We need to have teens and adults being responsible and appropriate. No one in my high school class would have been in this situation (Class of ’73) because we did not have the money to go to Aruba or even Atlantic City much less party all night…I knew no women who would be caught without a buddy even with a guy they knew!

      Please do not let the so called “friends”, “chapperones” and “parents” off the hook with “we have all done it”. We all have not!!! If Natalee was “naà ¯ve” where were her two sets of parents? If I had a daughter as beautiful as her, she would be told over and over what men want…

      now anyone here so naà ¯ve not to konw what that is?

    61. Amy on June 6th, 2005 5:51 pm

      Small update 2

      Listening to the local radio there have been several report of Natalee sightings.

      In half an hour of listening to the radio I heard people call in saying that they have seen her, more than 7 times. Significant who knows?
      Anything is possible right now. (I am just praying that is something is found)

      When I visit American websites not surprisingly all sound very pessimistic on the case of missing Natalee. And when I visit Arubian Media all sound very optimistic about finding her, even after one week. Nearly sure she is just walking around somewhere.

      Aruba is still optimistic
      Calling Natalee..
      Top 95.1 FM a local radio station made a call out to Natalee, in case she is listening to the radio. Now she atleast knows that everybody wants her to make contact with the local police or her own family. It’s an attempt on finding her.

      Hopefully she makes contact if she out there.

    62. Tom on June 6th, 2005 6:01 pm

      BB has been banned. We rarely have had to do this, but there it is.

      Sorry for any disruption he caused, and Kortnie thanks for the email! I was working on something else and missed it happenning.


    63. FormerLawEnf on June 6th, 2005 6:04 pm

      There some truth in what most people have posted here. However, for those of you who have been callously handing out blame to Natalee, to family, to friends, and to chaperones, I truly hope you never face having such an agonizing snapshot of your private life put up for such scrutiny. These are very real, caring people who are facing perhaps a terrible tragedy.

      I previously worked in law enforcement for many years and I agree that it is true that you can almost always find ways that a victim contributed to putting himself or herself in the circumstance of their vicitimization. However, this does not change the fact that the one or ones responsible are those who take advantage of these circumstances and commit the crimes.

      Ultimately most of us do not live our lives in a fearful posture, right? I could come up with lots of risk reducing, safety enhancing things that could have occurred last weekend in Aruba, but we all have gotten away with risky behavior before, most of us many times. The fact of the matter is that those of us who are parents, including some of the particularly self-righteous ones who have posted here, daily allow our children to do things that are risky. Did your teenager drive a car today? Do you let them go out on the weekend? Are you going to move into their freshman dorm with them?

      Many of the girls in Natalee’s senior class are already moving into their own apartments and preparing to start college … I know because my daughter is friends with them. The idea that the parents and chaperones should have treated them like middle schoolers on a beta club trip is very naive. We should all take precautions where we can and guide and protect our children as much as we can. The fact remains that ultimatley we cannot prevent predatory individuals from being predators. The perception clearly was that this was a very safe, controlled environment in which to “let your hair down.” The primary risk was controlled — the kids would not have to drive (driving intoxicated is much more likely to cause tragedy than a senior trip). I’ve seen many, many adults let their guards down a bit when on vacation … particularly in an environment lauded as being so safe. Let’s not cast too many stones in the direction of this young lady, her family and friends. They are not much different from any of us … except that they are facing tragic circumstances.

      Those of you who are attacking these folks and saying “pretty rich girl got what she deserved” don’t need me do condemn you … your words do that very well. For those of us who are praying and hoping for the best, lets hug our kids and be thankful for the grace that keeps us from being in this circumstance.

    64. Bill on June 6th, 2005 6:08 pm


      I hope you are right, I really do. But with her bags packed, passport there, and even money – who would leave that? At least that’s what’s being reported, not that I believe most of what’s reported these days.

      Nevertheless, I hope as you do that it’s right to be optimisitc. I’m on your side when it comes to that.

    65. FormerLawEnf on June 6th, 2005 6:09 pm

      Sorry for the couple of typos, but I think you get my drift.

    66. Yellow Ribbon on June 6th, 2005 6:09 pm

      I hope and pray that Natalee is found safe and is found soon. I have read several comments about Natalee’s backgroud and I would like to offer a few comments of my own. I have lived in Mountain Brook for almost all of my life. I met Natalee’s mom once and found her to be a very nice lady. I also know that she works and has a job that provides a great service to those who need her help. The Birmingham News reported that a local grocery has helped the family’s efforts because Natalee’s younger brother works at the store as a bag boy. I think that says something positive about her parents. Natalee also has a 4.0 GPA at what many believe is the best public high school in the state and one that ranks highly among public schools in the country.

      Mountain Brook is an affluent place where many rich people live. However, by no means is everyone in Mountain Brook rich or spoiled. Like most places Mountain Brook has good people and not so good people. The neighborhood where Natalee lives is not that much different from dozens of neighborhoods in the Birmingham area. I grew up here with many spoiled brats and I probably was one myself. I also grew up with a lot of great, smart, good people who are close friends to this day. Like elesewhere, most of the problem kids were screw ups who did not make good grades. Growing up in Mountain Brook and raising children here presents its own challenges with peer pressure, etc. However, from what I have heard and read about Natalee I can only hope to raise my little girl to be as good. It terrifies me to think that someone out there would snatch my little girl when her guard is down. It looks like her parents have done a great job raising Natalee and yet things have gone so terribly wrong due to one mistake. How many of us have made similar mistakes without paying such a horrible price?

    67. Phil on June 6th, 2005 6:16 pm

      Dear LawEnf…

      I do not think anyone believes she got what she deserves…it is very sad and terrible thing…my prayers are with all close to her…maybe we can pull off a miracle

      But the “we have all done it” is not true…I know many people who would not. It does not make them better but maybe safe. There are people how have been wild and are not here to post about their mistake.

      Maybe I let my teenagers drive today but I did not let them drink and drive…people do it but I am not dumb enough to knowing let them.

      The primary risk was controlled – no drinking and driving” sounds very naive to me. You would think that a former LE would understand the risks a young women must face in a nightclub.

      As parents we need to do everything to protect our children even at 18 years old and beyond.

    68. PA MOM on June 6th, 2005 6:20 pm

      I’m so sad for Natalee’s family. There must be video tape in the bar or hotel that shows her with the 3 men (2 men?) she was with…. I definitely agree that her friends really let her down that night. Chaperones? Was that a joke, or a tax write off for them somehow? There must be a lot of sad friends and chaperones with a lot of guilt on their heads right now…

    69. Bill on June 6th, 2005 6:43 pm

      On being 18.

      Lord knows I haven’t ever led a life that could be considered sheltered. I went into the service right after my 18th birthday, and soon found myself in foriegn ports really soon after graduating high school. No chaperones, that’s for sure. The key to international travel was, never go alone.

      Really, it should have been, never go alone if you can help it. Because sometimes you just had to go off on your own if your were ever going to get a flavor for a place beyond what tourists see. And I really did want to see more than the tourist thingy in so many places, so I can empathize with Natalee, if that’s what she was doing. Natalee didn’t have a handy Wyoming cowboy who was in the service because he bit another guy’s ear off in a bar fight. Whenever I had one, I took him along, you can be sure of that. But failing that kind of pairing or grouping, I would go anyway.

      And yes, maybe it’s different because I am a guy and maybe I had my guard up the whole time, so that helped me to only get rolled once. I wouldn’t be so quick to judge Natalee – she probably never had her guard up like that in her whole life. And that’s as it should be. She was in Aruba, for Pete’s sakes. A vacation paradise, and having been there that same week, I can say a very pleasant place. Why would she feel like she needed to have her gaurd up? I didn’t.

      I also understand, kind of, that the chaperones couldn’t nor should they have to watch out for over 100 grown-up high school graduates like mother hens. These chaparones can only do so much, and were outnumbered something like 20 to 1. If they all left, though, I would say the parents have a bone to pick. Later, though. The important thing now is to find Natalee.

    70. Amy on June 6th, 2005 6:43 pm

      I know your reasons for being pessimistic on the search of Natalee Holloway, with the background on American missing people and all but as an Arubian I am telling you that in my community a lot of people are very optimistic on finding her. And even claiming lots of sighting of her in a supposed red car. Who knows?
      I would suggest everybody just be optimistic no matter what and pray for her findings.

      I myself always thought she’s just hiding somewhere but I have experienced doubt on her being alive, but now I choose to be optimistic on finding Natalee Holloway.

      To my knowledge the American media has covered a great deal off the National Search that took place on Aruba today, you’ll be recieving if not already this coverage soon.

    71. Phil on June 6th, 2005 7:07 pm

      Dear Bill:

      “Why would she feel like she needed to have her guard up? I didn’t”

      Maybe you were not a women and not quite a s beautiful as Natalee…you did not have to worry about that…she did-even in vacation paradise…when was the last ime you heard of a guy being aducted by three women and abused???

      It was up to the adults to help her understand this fact if she did not already know it.
      I do not in anyway condemn Natalee…but the lack of caring and support of the people around her….

      America needs to be more responsible…

    72. Bill on June 6th, 2005 7:23 pm

      Phil is right! I am not now, nor was I ever beautiful. Well, maybe a little, but…

      I was only saying I tend to empathize with, or least understand why a young woman like Natalee would go off on her own. I have done so myself at her age and in places that were not vacation spots. It’s about wanting to get a local flavor for the place you’re visiting. Not just the stuff you’re gonna experience as a tourist. Rightly or wrongly, it’s understandable to me.

      That’s all I was trying to say. And we don’t know, so I beg your pardon if it seems off to even say what I was trying to say.

    73. Phil on June 6th, 2005 7:31 pm

      Neither am I…beautiful that is…I appreciate your comments and its sad that women are so vulerable to this type of crime…

      I just want to have us all come together to make it more difficult for things like this to happen to anyone…

    74. Another Father on June 6th, 2005 7:37 pm

      My daughters (who could also be unsympathetically characterized as “pretty, rich girls”), everyone of them, have done the same kinds of “stupid things” of which Ms. Holloway is accused, ofttimes right under my and my wife’s noses. Thank God that they returned alive despite their missteps and mistakes. Whatever happened to Ms. Holloway, whatever she did that might have facilitated its happening, however, does not excuse its happening. If, in fact, the worst has happened, then I can only hope it saves some other girl and some other family from a similar nightmare, but, knowing teens, I doubt it. I’m sure, within a week of the authorities’ closing this case, however that may turn out, more teens, self-absorbed, full of beans and feeling invincible, will be courting the same fate.

      Which is why, while the full share of responsibility belongs to whoever harmed this young woman, I also impose a significant blame on Ms. Holloway’s “friends”. They were there. They knew what was going on. They knew her, they knew the situation, they had the opportunity and the power to intervene, and yet they apparently didn’t care enough to watch out for her (or for each other). It is mutual concern for each other and the assumption of responsibility for each other which distinguishes us from wildebeasts crossing a crocodile infested river, where every member of the herd is left to its own fate. I hope that the guilt of their failure dogs them for a very long time, not for the sake of retribution, but because maybe, just maybe, they will once again be in a similar situation and, this time, they will do what they should have done for this unfortunate young woman.

    75. FormerLawEnf on June 6th, 2005 7:38 pm

      Of course we affect the level of risk we are presented with and make decisions that either steer us towards or away from perceived and/or real dangers. However, these are young adults who in realilty will face more unchaperoned risk on a typical college weekend than on a senior trip such as this. By all accounts Natalee is a bright young lady who generally exercised very good judgment. My point, that I still stand by, was that virtually everyone has made risky decisions that they have survived unscathed. Also, and very importantly our perceived level of risk is affected by what we are told. Here, the perception was that the island was “very safe … particularly as to tourists,” and frankly this perception seems to be largely true. In contrast, I know for a fact that there are areas near Birmingham where Natalee and her friends would never even dream of going to a club and much less of leaving with new acquaintances because they perceive these areas as unsafe. Keep in mind that, in an area known or believed to be generally safe, predatory individuals are unexpected and therefore particularly dangerous.

      Also, statistics and my own experience suggest that those of you who think your teenage kids have not “lived to tell” from bad decisions and risky circumstances are most likely wrong. Usually, though, there are not predators there waiting for these moments of vulnerablity. This does not mean that we stop trying to manage risk or that we stop teaching our children to recognize and manage it themselves. We all wish that in this instance some of the “backup” safety systems — chaperones, friends, buddy system … something, anything — would have intervened. Under the circumstances, however, I think our venom should be reserved for any who may have acted wrongfully.

    76. Bill on June 6th, 2005 8:34 pm


      I remember once when I worked for a large institutional bank here in downtown Chicago, we had a presentation from an Officer Bittenbinder. You remind me a little of him. His common sense tips and observations were both humorous and eye opening. A lot of the ladies there for his presentation would burst out laughing, mostly because they recognized themselves in situations Bittenbinder was describing. And these were “street smart” women who lived and worked in Chicago their whole life.

      If there was one thing that Officer Bittenbinder drove home again and again, it was, don’t let anyone take you to crime scene number two. Deprive the criminal of privacy, and crime scene two is all about that. He gave examples, like if you are attacked on an elevator, don’t hit stop. Instead, hit every button on the elevator, and block the stop button. Someone attacks you on the street, run into the middle of the street and yell, “Fire!” People will look when you yell Fire, instead of Help because they might feel at risk as well. And besides, Bittenbinder explained, the first guy off of any Chicago fire truck is carrying an axe!

      You get the idea.

      With that in mind, I suggest that any future trips of graduating high school students from ANYWHERE to Aruba or to ANYWHERE else hire a person such as Officer Bittenbinder to give that same good advice as a requirement for going on the trip. Maybe you could even do it, FormerLawEnf . Something to consider.

    77. PA MOM on June 6th, 2005 8:45 pm

      Wow Bill- great suggestion. Someone else has said that after all these are young adults, they don’t need a chaperone up their butt at all times, but some could use some street smarts and common sense precautions – these things need to be taught. Parents: call your schools and make this a suggestion for future graduates…

    78. edward on June 6th, 2005 8:57 pm

      There certainly can be allot said – in
      saying anything. Are we all to believe
      no-one has offed any information on
      what happened, at the nightclub that
      evening. None of these so-called
      chaperone’s and friends knows
      anything…. were they themselves to
      be busy meeting the locals and
      jumping into other cars, to notice…
      There is alto of info
      no-one wants to talk about here….
      This woman’s friends and chaperone’s
      did her a great injustice………

      America is still not being responsible…
      I pray to God this woman is found alive

    79. Bill on June 6th, 2005 9:10 pm

      PA Mom,

      My memory of Officer Bittenbinder seems pretty good. I just looked up this article:

      And yes, I agree that nowadays getting it in college is too late. You are right to urge parents to have this sort of presentation at senior year of high school. When I saw it, it was given to mature working women, and everyone there learned quite a bit.

    80. Phil on June 6th, 2005 9:15 pm

      This talk should start before or with sex education…

    81. Bill on June 6th, 2005 9:46 pm

      “The more intelligence you have the longer you’re going to hesitate because you understand the finality of it.” — from the article cited above.

      Now that’s scarey, because Natalee is highly intelligent.

    82. Former Sheriffs Deputy on June 6th, 2005 11:10 pm

      I have read numerous comments regarding Ms. Holloway. These situations make me sick. A nice girl who needed to party gets abused and murdered. Mark my words — that will be the outcome of this case.

      I read a number of comments and I agree:
      * What were the parents thinking when they sent their daughter on a trip with
      120 students and only 7 chaperons?
      * What parents send their single, 17 year old daughter to Aruba where the
      game plan is drinking and intimate encounters?
      * What school organized such a goofy trip? Have you heard of a place where
      our young kids can have fun and learn something at the same time?
      * Wasn’t this girl taught how to act around strangers? Come on, she is 18!
      * Why is the FBI involved? (Daddy has $)
      * Would a young girl who was not white get this much attention, let alone the
      FBI? (Nope!)
      * What is this girl doing sleeping with strange men? (They call that a tramp where
      I come from.)

      I am angered that this girl caused her own problems!


    83. Bill on June 7th, 2005 12:15 am

      Former Sheriffs Dep,

      What Sherrif’s Department are you from? You sound like a typical Internet Troll. Try as you may, this situation is too serious for you to try as you may. So please take my answers to your questions for what they are worth. My opinion ONLY:

      * What were the parents thinking when they sent their daughter on a trip with
      120 students and only 7 chaperons?
      They were probably rightly thinking that it was relatively safe, and since their daughter is highly intelligent, earned a full scholarship, and is not without international travel experiences, she earned some time off to blow off some steam. If that’s bad, then never let any sailor off the ships they convey. Because that’s pretty close to letting the crew of a ship, who are mostly 18, blow off a little steam.

      * What parents send their single, 17 year old daughter to Aruba where the
      game plan is drinking and intimate encounters?
      She was 18, you stupoid. Who says the game plan was drinking and intimate encounters? You? Were you there? No. So you have absolutely nothing to say about what Natalee was or was not doing. do you? I’m sorry but I am becomming infuriated by such irresponsible statements as you propose. How do you think Natalee’s familiy feels? Or do you care at all!

      * What school organized such a goofy trip? Have you heard of a place where
      our young kids can have fun and learn something at the same time?
      In answer to the latter, You bet! I went on an actual high school trip and beleive me, we learned a lot. This was not even formally connected to the high school, but even if it was, an admirable endneavor. Nothing rounds a person out like international travel. I wish there was more of it!

      * Wasn’t this girl taught how to act around strangers? Come on, she is 18!
      I was in Okinawa when one of our Marine detachment took a dare to guzzle a fifth of 151 proof Bacardi rum. He was also 18. He took the dare, and about three steps, and then he dropped dead. I wouldn’t dream of comparing what Natalee did with that, but you might take the event into consideration if you’re implying wildness on her part. What she did was nothing! Nothing!

      * Why is the FBI involved? (Daddy has $)
      So? What’s your point? I only hope if my family had resources like that they’d use the heck out of them! And believe me, if you had them and it was your daughter, you’d be doing the same thing. Nothing is wrong with that at all. More power to them, I say.

      * Would a young girl who was not white get this much attention, let alone the
      FBI? (Nope!)
      That may be a valid point, but sadly.

      * What is this girl doing sleeping with strange men? (They call that a tramp where
      I come from.)
      That is slander. There is no substantiation of those rumors, and to put them out there is just wrong! Stop it!

      We don’t even know what happened, do we? Though my poor mind goes to places where I can imagine things, the truth is we don’t know. I would ask for all the speculation and general finger pointing to cease and desist. It’s not helpful.

      It’s just not.

    84. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 12:18 am

      For the millionth time…SHE IS NOT A TRAMP!
      She did not CONSENSUALLY have sex with them, if that did occur.
      She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
      You people that assume she’s some slut DO NOT KNOW HER.
      And you’re dead wrong.
      Were you completely viligant every time you left the house when you were 18? Even if it was a different country?
      Most importantly, why does it matter?
      It doesn’t matter what she did, she doesn’t deserve this. I can tell you what you are accusing her of is NOT something she did, but even if the girl lost was a ill-behaved teenager, would that make her any less important?

    85. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 12:19 am

      In aruba in local newspaper they said that in her notebook was
      found she wants to see the world, see staded she wonders if she wasn’t
      around would she be missed. She’s been seen being not a goody goody
      but being wild in Carlos in charlies. No offence you are on a island
      you don’t know and you leave with them. And her friends who went with
      her are they telling how they partied that night that witness saw
      being willed. Aruba is trying to cover all her bases by searching all
      around and searching in water. It doesn’t meen it’s looking bad. She’s
      been spotted several times on the island. Look at the girl that has
      been missing for 7 years was fine she left home because of a roblem
      with parents. To add in Aruba in dutch there is a saying “Stille
      Waters hebben Diepe Gronden” meanind calm waters are very deep,
      meaning not everything that looks to be nice and perfect doesn’t have
      a wild side or have something hidden.

      Please do not critisize or Island we are doing everything to find
      here, but you wont find someone who doesn’t want to be found, till her
      resourses run out or her party bug is over, it’s a party happy island
      after all.
      Today they searched the island over 1000 people even the red cross is
      helping with the search, which alot of people think they won’t find
      her there but hidden somewhere and partying other times.
      one of your corespondents said they saw pictures of them at carlos and charlies.
      hoping you see this to
      considering that alot of teens come here and party hard alcohol age is only 18

      You have to understand 48.000 people are directly dependant of the
      tourism. Painting aruba as an unsafe place when it isn’t true will
      kill our only income tourism is our only industry.
      This is one of the safest island in the caribbean if not the safest.
      Things like this don’t happen here
      it’s not a drug island like portaited elswhere
      don’t forget we get jeperdize for venezuelas actions because we are so close

      I studied in the states I know what 18 year olds straight a’ss students goody too shoes straight down to everyday cover of a good nice persoon who would never do anything wrong can act on either a spring brake or a shaperoned or un shaperoned school trip either in the US itself or internationally like mexico (WIld ON E) ring a bell

    86. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 12:20 am

      PS-Before you ask…she is my classmate. I know how she is. Thought I’d clear that up now.

    87. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 12:24 am

      To WOIMB
      Hope you aren’t proven wrong, as a person who knows her and it is truly being somewhere at the wrong time and she be truly found

      I was one who went to searched today

      we really want her well being

      but people tend to have a side no ones knows about

    88. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 12:29 am

      That’s certainly true. A lot of girls here are like that-I am one of them, and I think this may have cured me of my wild side (yes, I’m a good student and goody-two-shoes around those I do not know well, and around adults). But Natalee isn’t that type-I am, so it’s easily recognizable to me. She’s just sweet. If she did decide to go off with these men, and from reports I here from kids who went on the trip, she didn’t appear to plan on getting in the car with them, she did not decide to have sex with them. That’s just not her. Knowing her, she most likely thought they were her friends, and thought they’d take her back to the hotel. Coming from our hometown, we don’t have suspicion built into our system.
      The only mistake she could have made would be to get in a car with those men. And because those who are closest to her have been asked not to talk, nobody knows for sure that she did get in the car willingly.

    89. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 12:30 am

      Thank you, by the way, for searching. We know ya’ll are doing all that you can, and we appreciate it.

    90. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 12:33 am

      Well being here we wouldn’t do that either getting in a car without knowing who they are or knowing them

      we’ve been drilled with not going with stranger or even providing a lift or a ride to strangers especially in bad hours

      it’s true thanks to our nabours island they are drugs on this island

      i guess we just have to ask nataly what happend when we find her

    91. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 12:37 am

      I understand that, and I’m sure she had been told that a million times, but here in Mountain Brook, we don’t really get it sometimes. It’s very safe here-we call it The Bubble or the Tiny Kingdom. I think, if she did leave with them on purpose, that it was a momentary lapse of judgement. I don’t blame Aruba in any way…every place has its bad eggs. I just think that Natalee should stop being blamed. This situation is way beyond blame. Again, thank you for helping with the search. And yes, when we find her, we’ll know what happened. In the meantime it would just be best to point no fingers in blame at all-at Aruba, at Natalee, at the chaperones, at the parents, at her friends. We need to all just pray, and help out just like you are.

    92. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 12:38 am

      The search was so big they had 10 palm tours busses and personel of the Red Cross, The Ambualnce Services, Search & Rescue, Cops & Mareens like 4 to 5 trucks full of mareens. Student from the cop school, and local and turist.

      Tere were up to 5 ambulances to help if someone searching could get hurt
      Red Cross personel was handing out water and caring for basic needs

      And media were covering every inch

      they found some stuff which i guess are under the forensic microscopes of the FBI as we speak

      All in all everybody on this island are sure she still is alive

    93. Former Sheriffs Deputy on June 7th, 2005 12:45 am

      Former Sheriffs Dep,

      “What Sherrif’s Department are you from?”

      Why do you care what department I worked for? I worked as a Deputy in the Midwest.

      “Because that’s pretty close to letting the crew of a ship, who are mostly 18, blow off a little steam.”

      Bill, you think an 18 year old girl in high school should be categorized as “being pretty close to letting the crew of a ship…blow off steam.” Are you truly as dumb as you sound?

      “She was 18, you stupoid. Who says the game plan was drinking and intimate encounters?”

      Bill, calling me a stupoid shows that you fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down. Painful hugh?

      “Nothing rounds a person out like international travel. I wish there was more of it!”

      Bill, I agree with you as long as there is the proper number of chaperons! 120/7, that is crazy.

      “What she did was nothing! Nothing!”

      18 year old ges to party in Aruba, sleeps with 3 men and you call that nothing. You have an amazing intellect!

      “I only hope if my family had resources like that they’d use the heck out of them!”


      “That may be a valid point, but sadly.”


      “That is slander. There is no substantiation of those rumors, and to put them out there is just wrong! Stop it!”

      Dude, I am repeating what is in the news. I did not make this up!


    94. Bob Cobb on June 7th, 2005 12:47 am

      Though the Former Sheriff Deputy is a bit harsh, he is right.


    95. JOANN PECK on June 7th, 2005 12:59 am


    96. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 1:07 am

      “Dude”…you’re taking those three boys words over her reputation? If you do not know her, and you don’t, do NOT make assumptions as to her character.
      There is no way she “slept” with three men consensually. Period. If they say it happened, then it might have-in the form of rape.

    97. Madison March on June 7th, 2005 1:16 am

      Unfortunately, there are often severe consequences for lack of common sense! While this is so sad; and I feel for her family, her poor decision making may have cost Natalee her life. Families talk to your kids about sticking with the group you came with, and tell your kids not to leave with complete strangers!

      Never get into a car with anyone you do not know!! Take a beating outside the car; scream and kick, but as soon as you get in the car with someone you do not know you are pretty much a goner!

      I am praying for Natalee and her family!

    98. madison on June 7th, 2005 2:15 am

      Yes, but what everyone does not know is that one of the three original men questioned, that she left with… Well, one of them father is the only judge on the island.. so, do you really think we will ever know the truth. And that is a fact not a rumor…

    99. loulou on June 7th, 2005 3:12 am

      I will like to see a toxicology report on the body when it is found…though I believe Ecstasy is not traceable after a day or so. GHB also has a short half life too. Also, the recreational dose and the lethal dose for GHB are very close together. If she was incapacitated by GHB then the dose might have accidentally killed her.
      As I read the boards, there are a lost of reports of young Aruba men preying on young women from America. Since Bush the world hates us. It is OK to treat Americans badly.
      It could very well be that she is holed up somewhere ashamed to come home for all the bad things she has done. Sadly, this may be the most positive outcome.

    100. Rose on June 7th, 2005 4:35 am

      I have traveled though-out the Caribbean for some time now.
      I must say I am all ways surprised be the amount of drinking
      and sexual activity displayed by our young people. If there
      were video of that nites events, I can assure you… One
      would certainly receive an eye full. The norm is flashing,
      thongs, one can already see.. (just more of then with each
      drink), striping, groping. and just out and out grinding, that
      is supposed to be some from of dancing….After a evening
      of this activity and drinking, one needs little imagination to
      what will happen next. It’s sort of that Vegas thing…. I
      I’m also amazed by how the local men just took complete
      control over the young white female tourist. I pointed this out
      to my boyfriend on our last trip. It almost seemed like these
      girls had absolutely no interest in white male’s at all. You would
      see nicely dressed good looking white guy, go up to these girl’s and
      just be totally ignored ….. later you would see these girls leave
      the club with older and much less attractive black guy’s…..
      As reported in the papers this girl got in the car with these
      guy’s, drove off to some beach and had sex with all three of them.
      Which wouldn’t really surprised me, given the behavior displayed
      in these nightclub’s….
      That’s where all the information seems to stop….
      I Pray God this girl is found Alive……….

    101. Red on June 7th, 2005 8:40 am


      There is always a tendency to blame the victim some how for the crime that may have occurred rather than the dirtbags that may have perpetrated it. Folks, if someone was taken against their will because they were drugged, they did not have the ability to say no. Come on now, for those that want to throw the blame on Natalee have you ever known or dealt with a rape victim?

      WOIMB the only thing that I say to you as an 18 year old and being one myself eh some years ago is be careful. The fact that there is danger out there does not mean that one can’t have fun, you just have to be careful.

      I would like to ask you one question as being a classmate you may have knowledge to this. It was reported that 10 people saw Natalee get in to the car with the 3 guys. How many of those 10 were classmates? And why did none of the classmates prevent it from happening?

      This is why when adults tell teens and warn them of dangers there is a reason. We were all teenagers at one point. Experience is a mighty valuable tool in life. When I was your age and hung out in Aruba there were things that I had to use my better judgment in doing as well.

      Many of us just want to keep the kids safe. Some just may be a bit frustrated and lose their cool in how they say it. Please stay safe.

      I do feel for the family and friends and pray for Natalee.

    102. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 8:59 am

      “Former Sheriff’s Dep” really amazes me. Natalee was raped. I believe I can assure you (along with WOIMB) that Natalee DID NOT have “consensual sex.” Furthermore, in calling her “a tramp,” I can understand why you are a FORMER Sheriff’s Dep. IMO, poor Natalee was kidnapped, gang-raped, and then murdered. Since these men are Islanders, they are very well-aquainted with Aruba’s topography. IF she’s ever found, she will be dead.

    103. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 9:02 am

      First of all, my thoughts & prayers go out to Natalee and her family & friends. Some of these thoughts make me ashamed of American’s. Funny, how it takes a tragedy like 9/11 to make people come together for each other…doesn’t it. So sad.

      Second of all, I don’t put too much stake into what comes out in the media. Since most of the ‘facts’ can’t be released, to protect the case, we can only hear what the media has to offer. While I appreciate the media’s reports, I also have to not allow myself to be vulnerable to reports that have NOT been confirmed as facts.

      Thirdly, if the ‘three boys’ say they took her to Arashi (sp?) Beach AFTER they left Carlos’ & Charlies about 1:30am, and still had time to ‘drop Natalee off’ at the hotel by 2:00am…..isn’t that fishy?? And some of you are going to rely on the same sources who say she ‘consentually had sex’ with them? You are insulting your own intelligence if you put much stake in that as well.

      Lastly, sounds to me like much of you are supporting the ‘suspects’, more than the victim here. I pity you, and I hope nothing similar ever happens to you or your family…When it does, I guess YOU will be discovering, who really supports you and who doesn’t.

      “Let he who hath not sinned, cast the first stone”.

      Jill, from Springfield, Missouri

    104. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 9:04 am

      Jill, there are always “blame the victim” types. They are not too smart.

    105. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 9:09 am

      You are right, Kortnie. But what also amazes me is that people are saying Natalee:
      1) consentually had sex and
      2) was raped

      Wow!!! I bet the coroner would be impressed! She hasn’t even been found, much less confirmed dead, or cause of death confirmed.

      Guess that’s why Soap Operas and Reality TV are so successful. People thrive on drama, and the emotional downfall of others. It’s pathetic!


    106. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 9:24 am

      Thanks for the message, Jill. But I too am saying that Natalee was raped. It’s not that I “thrive” on “downfall of others,” it’s that I’m being realistic.

      I am also a rape victim. (And near-murder). I know about “realism.”

    107. Gabriel Leo on June 7th, 2005 9:25 am

      Let’s just keep things straigt here. These are my personal opinions!

      Aruba is a safe island–> yes it is!
      Now and then things happen on Aruba which leaves the entire island in a state of schock–>yes it does!
      Aruba’s doing everything it can to help–> Hell yes!
      Aruba will not tolerate for it’s reputation to deminish or get a black shadow–> No it wil not!
      Are we Arubians very proud of who we are–> A big YES
      Do we believe we live in paradise and are blessed to have a low crime rate compared to other countries in this world?–> We truly do. That is a reason why we are a hot spot for tourist, and we shall do our best that it stays like that.
      Is it responsable to send your 18 year old allone with chaperone’s to any strange country even Aruba–> NO!
      a group of 140 students, were the 7 chaperone’s enough?–> NO WAY, they should have been more!
      Does the family deserve the agony they are going thru?–> Hell NO! No one deserves it!
      If there happen to be a Crime in the end, did she deserve it?–> NO, never!
      If she is found, must she come forward and explain everything–>Ofcourse
      if she decided to go into hiding because of family trouble or any other personal trouble must she appologize to Aruba, the families involved, Media, everyone involved in the search–> She Dammn right should!
      (The Aruban media says that they are rumours that she left letters or either wrote in her yearbook strange poems and stories about her future indicating that she either was planning something OR had a feeling something was going to happen)

      Is she alive–> I believe so!
      During the search yesterday many locals came forward on Radio stations saying that they had seen her last week and during the weekend in the backseat of a white car allong with two other people. The car in which she was seen was said to be a rental. One local claimed yesterday that when she noticed this girl sitting in the back seat of the car with sunglasses on. When she shouted the name Natalee this girl rolled up the window and ducked. The car took off and was lost out of sight. Others claimed that they saw her buying sigarettes/ food in a local bar which is out of sight from many locals living in the area (you can see it’s a secluded area). She was also spotted riding in a white car in other parts of the island but again when she was called on, this person would crouch down in the back seat and the car would disappear.

      Yesterday allot of locals came forward with information concerning Natalee. Many insist that they saw her, because an American you can spot a mile away. Especially Natalee who is a beauty.

      Yesterday while a group was searching on the island they came across a parked car in one of Aruba’s many bush areas with two male and a girl which they claimed to be Natalee. When this group tried to approach the car the men asked them from a distance if they were searching for Natalee, which they answered yes. The group claimed that these men then ran to the car together with this girl and tried to run the group over with the car. Authorities were informed but no one could say with certainty if the girl was Natalee, because the group was at a far distance from the vehicle. The search continued in this area but due to daylight and rainy weather the searched came up empty.

      Carlos and Chalies is a very popular spot throughout the Caribbean. It’s comparable with Ruby Tuesday. The main POINT visiting these spots are to drink and get drunk. It’s a fact that Many teens especially US teens who have just made 18 years, travel to either Cancun on spring break, bahamas, Aruba etc in search of alcoholic ambiance. The drinking age in the US is 21 but they just can’t wait to start and travel to these places just for the booz. The parents know this, the famliy know this and their friends know this. RED just like you said you came to Aruba when you were 18 and partied! It was the same then and is the same now, it’s you who grew up and find the party now a days different! Drinking competions, tequila shots, dancing. I’ve heard people saying that the legal drinking age in Aruba is to low (18 years). I disagree because Aruban teens don’t go to Carlos and Charlies to get drunk. There for there is no reason to rise the drinking age here on the island. This place was especially, by demand of tourist, introduced on the island.
      I work at the airport as passenger handler in the weekends. When the charters come from the states is only groups of teens that get of the plane and the first thing they say is damn Aruba is hot, feel the heat (most of them come from cold states) and then they ask where is Carlos and Charlies, that’s where we are going to party! We ArE GOING TO PARTY WHO HOOOOO. When there vacations are over and the come back to check in for there flight all of them have hangovers or are still drunk or are still drinking. I have warned many of times that the better quit the drinking and behave other wise i will not allow them to board the plane because they are considered dangerous passengers. Mommy and daddy in the states believe there kids are having a healty time, while it’s not so and don’t even DARE TO BLAIM ARUBA FOR THIS because they are adults here on the island due to their age! These teens range between the age of 18 years to 21/22 and most of them travel allone (without chaperone). Many rich parents also rent private jets, send their kids with friends to the island with all expenses paid, limosine, penthouse etc. Before the plane even touches ground they are already drunk. The crew tell me THANK GOD that flight is over, they made a mess on board, but the parents will pay for cleanup. So I do believe that the parents do make wrong judgement by sending their teens allone to Aruba or ANYYYYY Other country in the world! Some people who are drunk become quite, but other who get drunk get more guts to do weird things, it’s a fact!

      I believe that one of her friends must know something that they have not told authorities or the family. It’s impossible that you see your friend get in a car without stopping her and realizing till the next day that she is not there. It’s also a little obvious to ME that on the last night of her vacation she disappears. And on a Sunday night that is never busy in the nightlife of Aruba because believe it or not most locals don’t go out on Sunday night because they have to work the next day or they have to go to school.

      All in all I say leave the investigations to the autorities and let’s just watch them do their job, just like you trust your FBI, so do we and our local authorities!

      I believe this is a case that could have happened anyday, anywhere in the world. We as Arubians are holding our breath hoping for a happy ending and hope this situation ends as soon as possible. We find it impossible that she has not been located as yet if there was a crime comitted here. We truly believe that the only way she has not been found is because she herself is trying to hide and keep low. If you live on Aruba you would know what I mean, you can’t missing on Aruba for long unless you yourself are trying to hide!

      My reaction to why the international media is so involved is because Natalee’s family is a powerful family in the US, and is somewhat related to a US Senator in the US. That is what US reporters told Aruban Reporters when they were asked why this case is such of importance that they are bringing it on International level. IT’S Not me that said it but your Reportors from CNN, FOX and NBC.

      IF there is a crime that happened here, which everyone hopes that it isn’t the case, Aruba will take it’s reponsibility to make sure it never happens again. But again no one knows nothing. Let’s all keep in mind that this is still beeing called a SEARCH.

      and to AMY–> Ban lew bo mai e cos ki di pleita cu e hende nan aki, paso mas nos bisanan algo, ta mas nan ta trose e berdad i bisa loke ta na nan fabor dus. Mihor cos ta pa keda keto i laga e berdad pp pa su mes…pa awor anto! ;)

    108. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 9:38 am


      First of all, I apologize if I insinuated that YOU were the one that ‘thrived’ on the downfall of others. I was directing that at the previous posts, obviously from persons who lack sensitivity.

      I respect what you have gone thru, as I have also been thru the same myself…just over one year ago. Guess that’s why you and I are ‘outraged’ at the whole thing.

      I do agree, if she is found dead, that odds are that she was raped vs. having consensual sex.

      My only point, was the extreme opinions of others who are so ‘out there’, only to rely on non-facts. There will be facts released eventually…but that can’t be done until later….the 2 security guards haven’t even been charged yet. Also, just because the ‘three boys’ haven’t been arrested, doesn’t mean they won’t be.

      Being very familiar with Criminalistics and the Law, it does take time to build a case…I just hate to see people run with rumors. I cannot imagine what her mother / family is going thru.

      Thanx for reply, and Godspeed!

    109. WOIMB on June 7th, 2005 9:47 am

      Unfortunately, many kids DO go to Aruba just to get drunk. That’s why I wasn’t allowed to go, because that’s what the trip was advertised as. They behave irresponsibly, and there is no excuse for it.
      However I do believe that Natalee was not one of those. There are three stories circulating here, in response to Red: The first is that several people, yes, our friends, saw her get into a cab with the three men she had been hanging out with in the bar. The third is that everyone left at the same time, and in the crush she was lost (there are people that claim to have never seen her after they left the bar). The third is that when the whole group left, she walked off to the side with these men and made a comment implying she would join her friends in just a minute. However she did not, and was later seen in a cab going in the direction of the hotel by her friends. She yelled something at them out the window, and seemed happy.
      Honestly, there are very few people who know the true story here, because most of the kids who went on the trip did not see her leave the bar. Those that do have been asked to keep quiet, and are respecting that request.
      At this point, speculating, I think, does no good. I have tried to piece information together a thousand times, but there is no solid conclusion. I know Natalee would not have had consensual sex with these men. I also believe she would never leave on her own and cause her family such pain. It also seems suspect that she would get in the car with her new friends if she thought they were going to a remote beach.
      But at this point only the authorities, her family, and best friends can truly answer any of our doubts, and for the good of the investigation, they are not allowed to speak.

    110. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 9:52 am

      Yes Jill you have the same idea that I had, I know that even being the small island that it is there is a discrepancy in the timing that the boys/men state. There is the high rise area and Carlos & Charlies, basically opposite ends of the island.
      I am holding onto the hopes that although at this point that she is harmed that she is still alive and just waiting for an opportunity to escape her captors.
      This is what I pray to happen soon.

    111. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 9:59 am

      Thanx for your reply, CeeCee!
      Do you live in Aruba? I am not familiar with the island, but from consistent, but different reports, I understand that Arashi (sp?) Beach is a little distance to the hotel. That leaves 30 mins from the time she left Carlos’ & Charlies, to the supposed ‘Beach’, then finally ‘dropped off’ at the hotel???? I think not, and I’m sure that’s why more arrests are emminent.

      Hope is what keeps us going! Without it, we have nothing.

    112. Gabriel Leo on June 7th, 2005 10:06 am

      To MOMfromMO:
      On a Sunday night when it’s not busy! you can easily reacht from carlos and charlies to Arashi beach in 10 minutes and from Arashi beach to the Holiday INN in 5 minutes. I do live here. It’s one straight higway from the city to the hotels and on a Sunday night you get from the city to the hotels in no time.

    113. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 10:13 am

      Thanx for the info, Gabriel!
      With that said…and in my opinion, confirmed…I find it hard to believe the ‘three boys’ story. Why would Natalee consensually go to a beach, only to stay 10 or 15 mins (especially if her intention was what was insinuated earlier)? Very strange. I hope Law Enforcement Officials delve deeper into this ‘strange alibi’.

      Thanx again!

    114. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 10:14 am
    115. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 10:14 am

      So, Jill, we are BOTH survivors of rape. So sorry about your’s – I know it’s horrible. In addition, I was almost murdered. This happened when I was 22, just a few years older than Natalee. I’m 48 now, but the terrifying experience will be with me as long as I live. Are you doing OK?

      Sorry for the speculation, but it is NOT unrealistic to consider that Natalee has been kidnapped, raped and murdered. Sure, it would be lovely for this case to end up like the “runaway bride,” but I fear not.

    116. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 10:21 am

      Two replies:
      CeeCee, thank you for that helpful link to the Aruba map!

      I am 41…and yes I’m doing okay. Try to put it out of my mind. I’m glad you’re doing okay now…Seems you are very supportive and sensitive because of your experience. What we go thru makes us who we are…and enables to help other people…funny how that works!

      Also, Kortnie…you are being very realistic about what probably has occurred. I just hope the family gets answers very soon. It’s the ‘Not Knowing’ that kills us.

      And no..LOL…this is definitely not a ‘runaway bride’ scenario. I agree wholeheartedly!

      Thanx for replying, my friend!!!

    117. Katie Burh on June 7th, 2005 10:27 am

      Though there seems to be a harshness regarding opinions related to what has happened to Natalee, I must agree with the comments that she got herself in this mess by acting irresponsible. And the lack of responsibility began when her parents, rich or not, sent her to Aruba for a “party” vacation. She did not ask for what has happened to her, but she appears to have put herself in harms way.

      She showed total irresponsibility by her actions. And sleeping with 3 men; shameful.


    118. Another Father on June 7th, 2005 10:27 am

      Whoever characterized “Former Sheriff’s Deputy” (NOT “Former Law Enforcement Officer”) as a “troll” got it right – let’s assume that all the worst things which have been bruited about Ms. Holloway are true – that she got drunk, that she dressed provocatively, that she “acted sluttishly”, that she “stupidly” got into a car with 3 strange men, etc.. When did THOSE become capital crimes? When did being a “pretty rich girl” or white or having parents with some influence become a capital crime? Ms. Holloway is a victim.

      The Arubans are in denial – they keep seeing her/having “Natalee spottings” because they need to, psychologically. This event threatens their livelihood and it holds an ugly mirror up to their society and they are, by and large, good and decent enough people that they do not want to see or credit that image.

      The reality, however, is that, tho’ Aruba is a “relatively” safe place, that term is “relative”. There was ONLY 1 murder and ONLY 6 rapes last year, but that means that SOMEBODY got killed and SEVERAL people got raped, that we know of.

      The fact is that we have laws prohibiting 18 year olds from drinking and doing certain other things because we know that they lack the experience and maturity to truly understand and appreciate the risks involved. Then we willingly send them off to a 3rd world country where they can engage in activities we think are too dangerous for them when done a block from home. But kids have to grow up, they have to have experiences and even take risks. The key is to minimize those risks.

      “Carlos’ and Charlie’s” is a chain with roots in Cancun, which has spread throughout Mexico and the Caribbean in order to provide a venue for kids to let off steam. That is all well and good, but the chain’s reputation as a party venue, as a dress rehearsal for a “Girls Gone Wild” video, is well known and, if there are predators in the vicinity, they will be attracted there. Predators only hunt where there is prey. Did anyone warn these kids about that? Were there chaperones outside to keep an eye on the goings on? Were there even enough chaperones to cover these activities? It certainly seems that the event was under-chaperoned and nothing I’ve heard convinces me that the chaperones were being particularly diligent, but, even if true, it doesn’t shift blame. That belongs solely to the perpetrators.

      I also know that a teen who wants to elude adult control, to go off and take chances, can do so, no matter how closely watched by adults they are. The only effective check on these behaviors is for the kids to watch out for each other and that, most sadly, was not occurring. We know where Ms. Holloway was and what she was doing up til she got in that car and we know that she got in that car, because her “friends” saw her. Why they did not do more than simply note the matter, however, is beyond me. I suspect, had any of her “friends” so much as made it known to these men that they were witness to Ms. Holloway’s being with them, it would have acted as a protection against harm. Nobody did even that. To the extent I have any blame for anyone beyond the criminals who did this, I place it on Ms. Holloway’s “friends”. Next time maybe they won’t stand idly by while one of their own goes off into danger.

    119. Roger Peterson on June 7th, 2005 10:32 am

      I think errors and poor judgement compounded themselves. Parents used poor judgement to send 18 year old to a drinking fest and sex fest. Natalee should have had better sense at 18. Having sex, getting in to strange cars, etc. Poor decisions in my mind. And where were her friends/classmates? Were they to tanked up to be with her. Seems like on more poorly thought out excursion involving children. This trip to Aruba in my mind is that same as having sent the kids to Jacko’s Neverland Ranch. The only difference is, at the Ranch, you didn’t know if Jacko was going to diddle you, in Aruba, everyone knows the game — drinking and sex.


    120. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 10:33 am

      With all due respect, what source are you relying on, that Natalee ‘slept with three men’???

      The reason I myself never reported to authorities about MY assault, was because my own mother said, “That’s what you get for putting yourself in that situation”.

      Shameful? For what? Flirting? Perhaps. But until you know the facts and also have been thru anything remotely similar, you are lowering yourself to assumptions and the reports of the ‘three boys’ who claim she consensually had sex with all 3 of them…in 15 minutes?? Cough, cough. Right!

    121. Former Sheriffs Deputy on June 7th, 2005 10:36 am

      To: Another Father Says:

      Why are you calling me a troll? Doing what Natalee did are not crimes of law; but they do come with a punishment. She is missing, I presume reaped and dead. Is that not a crime that such a young, vibrant person had this happen to them?

      Former Deputy

    122. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 10:37 am

      To Katie: It’s “shameful” that you actually think Natalee would “sleep” with 3 strange men.

      Just how naive are you, or what? The “shameful” persons are the men who have gang-raped and killed her. THAT is where the “shame” lies – on her perpetrators.

    123. Alan Spence on June 7th, 2005 10:37 am

      I agree with Former Deputy.

    124. Nick Pappaduolo on June 7th, 2005 10:41 am

      I find the various opinions very interesting. Isn’t it great that in America we can debate are various view points. This is wonderful.


    125. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 10:43 am

      So, let’s see, both “Former Dep” and “Alan Spence” are BLAMING THE VICTIM!

      You two are a real pair…of jerks!

    126. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 10:46 am

      It’s obvious, Kortnie. Former Dep & Spence see women as nothing more than a piece of a**. That’s why they blame Natalee.

      Pathetic, isn’t it??

    127. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 10:50 am

      I haven’t read or heard anything about “blaming Aruba” for Natalee’s disappearance. I can’t see how anyone can place blame on anyone other than the perpetrator(s) of the crime, IF a crime has been committed.
      Common sense should prevail – no matter where you are in the world – that you don’t go off with strangers and that you cover your friends’ backs.
      Natalee’s flaw is probably naivety, for which no one should be blamed.
      I live in an area that is low in crime, but grew up the daughter of a policeman in Baltimore, MD, so I do have some street smarts – as did most of my friends. I’ve taught my own kids to watch their back – and their friends backs as well. I really think that parents should rally their schools to have some programs on “street smarts” possibly administered by local law enforcement.

    128. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 10:54 am

      PA MOM:

      High-Fives to you! You are right on!

      No one is to blame for what probably has ultimately happened….except for the perpetrators!

    129. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 10:59 am

      Hi Jill, their ignorance and misogyny is VERY “pathetic,” yes.

      Natalee got “punished” according to Former Dep. Because she was out partying?

      I was home asleep in my bed at 4 AM when the rapist broke in through a window. Now, pray, please to tell me what I was being “punished” for? Your “theory” holds no water – females are “punished” by men in this world just for being female. Whether asleep in their beds or out in the streets.

      Can you two (bleep!) possibly understand that?

    130. mrs. red on June 7th, 2005 11:01 am

      I am over this argument of if it was rape or consentual – PEOPLE, sex is not a crime. However RAPE IS!!!! To the morons that are posting such garbage as the thinking she asked for it – get a clue. NO ONE deserves to be raped or killed if that is indeed what happened here – you DON”T ASK TO BE RAPED!

      This morning on Fox & Friends they had the parents of a young woman who disappeared from Jamacia five years ago. She was there on business, so, did she “derserve it?”

      Or are all of you petty, small minded jerks upset, really – the bottom line only because she’s young, beautiful and”rich” and you’re not? Most of the nasty comments harbor on her being “rich” and on and on. Like I stated earlier, rich or not, doesn’t matter she didn’t deserve to have bad things happen to her. Quite frankly it’s not like the money will ever wash away the horror – so shut the hell up and get over that!!

      And I can pretty much guaratee that ANY adult on this site did stupid things at 18 and still do!

      Stop spewing venom people and pray for this girl and her family!

    131. Former Sheriff Deputy on June 7th, 2005 11:08 am

      You are criticizing the people who are calling it as they see it — beautiful rich girl who got herself in trouble by going to party where the booze is a flowing and so is the sex.


    132. phil on June 7th, 2005 11:12 am

      I get a sense that no one wants to blame Natalee or anyone with her…but what we need to do is analyze the situation and information our teenage of risk.

      WOIMB admitts to being clueless…here is a clue. Going to a bar and hanging out with three guys you do not know is a risk…drinking at the same time is a very high risk…staying out to 1:30am drinking and dance with strange men is deadly.

      For young women not to know this through out the world means they do not have responsible parents/teachers.

      WOIMB – for your inforamtion a “good” girl in my day did not go to bars…much less drink with strange men and would be a virgin at 18 (unless she married young). I do not know Natalee so I make no (and I mean no) direct references to her. We should define our definitions…

      We have worked so hard in the USA to curb drunk driving maybe we need to help teens understand safe…and why there were rukes for teenage behavior..

    133. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:13 am

      Here, here! Ms. Red!!!

      Agree completely!

    134. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:17 am

      “Former” Deputy that is….Wonder why…

      Calling it as you see it leaves me no question as to why you’re a former deputy.

      Probably porked the front desk receptionist, because you thought she deserved it?


    135. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:18 am

      Just calling it like I see it…

    136. Former Sheriff Deputy on June 7th, 2005 11:28 am


      I am a former Deputy as I took my career in another direction. You strike me as of the NASCAR mentality. How come you are not at work? Do you work? MOMfromMO, relax, smoke your cigarette and go watch TV. Thanks.


    137. phil on June 7th, 2005 11:28 am

      MOM and Red…

      Lets keep this discuss on the up and up. Red wrote “Stop spewing venom people ”

      I have read almost all the post and have seem very little vernom. Allare sad about this situation…few have mentioned “rich”. Beautiful is mentioned because like or not…pretty women and even blondes are more at risk then any others

      So let’s give every one some “benefit of the doubt”

    138. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 11:28 am

      LOLOL – you go MOMfromMO!
      I guess if HIS daughter had the same thing happen we’d call it as we see it as well.
      I strongly believe the parents need to teach their kids that there is no “Mayberry” in America or anywhere else in the world and the common sense approach needs to be taught by the parents. Schools can be asked to help by having local law enforcement come in at least once a year for a program on street smarts. I have sent an e-mail to the principal of my children’s school to request that they consider doing so. I challenge other parents to take responsibility and make that call or send that e-mail to their children’s school as well.

    139. Larry Baker on June 7th, 2005 11:29 am

      MOMfromMO sounds like a goof.

    140. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:32 am

      No doubt, you took your career in another direction. A security guard for an upscale ghetto motel, perhaps? Ooooh, I feel safe.

      FYI, I am a Construction Manager, at work. And yes, thanx for the advise. Think I WILL have a cigarette.

      Can’t handle MY OPINION…can ya? ROFLMAO

    141. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:34 am

      I can handle it, Larry. I’m a big girl now.

    142. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 11:37 am

      Ouch you guys. Can we keep it constructive?

    143. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:44 am

      I agree, PA MOM. It just chaps my buns to hear the blame cast on the victim. Being one in the past myself, tends to make me defensive. But, honestly…I should be defensive with someone who’s worth it.

      *Hangs head in shame*

      My thoughts and prayers for Natalee and her family/friends.

      Thanx for the ‘prod’, PA MOM!

    144. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 11:44 am

      I would like to hear more about the FACTS
      Concentrating on the two THEY HAVE IN CUSTODY
      They both lost their jobs on May 29 the day Natalee went missing.
      Sorry but I am not really interested in y’all’s lives/jobs/misfortunes
      Just trying to concentrate on Natalee

    145. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 11:47 am

      Me too, CeeCee.

      “Just the facts, Ma’am”

      I think once the officials get a ruling from the judge (about whether the two in custody can continue to be detained until charged), we may get some more information…Hoping, anyway.

      Do you have any other information on these mysterious “three boys”?? (Their story seems fishy, to me)


    146. TLC on June 7th, 2005 11:58 am


    147. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:02 pm

      “Former Dep,” — It’s YOU with the “Nascar” mentality. Former Deputy would have all girls and women at home in their burquas. I think you should move to Afghanistan because you’d fit right in with the Taliban.

      Larry Baker – YOU are “a goof!”

      Ceecee – it’s other people’s experiences in life that help us to understand each other.

      Concerning Natalee, SHE is the victim here. If a female walks down the street stark naked, SHE DOESN’T DESERVE TO GET RAPED AND MURDERED.

    148. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 12:02 pm

      No problemo MOMfromMO – I understand how some people can ruffle feathers. I choose to just ignore the ignorant, it just irritates them more anyway :-)

      Cee Cee – I don’t see much on the news here in PA about Natalee… I am relying on this forum for info actually. When I search the Internet news I don’t see much either. I really do hope she is found safe.

    149. freya on June 7th, 2005 12:05 pm

      As a person who works with victims of violence I want to inform you that rape is not a sex crime, it is a crime of “power over ‘the victim, often the perpetrators have no area in their life were they can express power, so they hunt for situations to do so. I think you all need to remember this, it will go a long way in stopping blaming the victim if we stop thinking of rape as a sex crime, it is a violent invasive attack, expressed through the sex act, this is the perpetrators way of claiming power.

    150. phil on June 7th, 2005 12:06 pm


      There is a difference between walking down the street naked and deserving to be assulted.

      The former is not prudent…no one deserves the latter.

      If I walk down the street with thousands of dollars hanging out my pocket…do I deserved to be robbed? No…am I stupid…yes!!!!

      If we say a person was “stupid” to leave their money out in full view…are we saying they deserved to get robbed…I would say no.

    151. phil on June 7th, 2005 12:07 pm


      There is a difference between walking down the street naked and deserving to be assulted.

      The former is not prudent…no one deserves the latter.

      If I walk down the street with thousands of dollars hanging out my pocket…do I deserved to be robbed? No…am I stupid…yes!!!!

      If we say a person was “stupid” to leave their money out in full view…are we saying they deserved to get robbed…I would say no.

    152. bubbalou on June 7th, 2005 12:07 pm

      Yeah, its all fishy. It would seem that they are crediting the boys as being the wtnesses to seeing her with the security guards. That sure doesn’t seem believable to me. Something is not right. I wonder what condition she was in when they dropped her off. Did they just push her out the door and leave her in a pile? Or was she able to walk/etc. The question also is did they even give her a ride back?

      I find it hard to believe that she had intention to have sex with 3 guys. One guy, yes. She seems like a work hard / play hard type and I don’t think she is necessarily “perfect” from a parents perspective. So I suppose there is a possible chance she intended 3, but not likely. In my opinion, I view the 3 boys as predators. I do think they drove her back to the hotel, or at least the side of the hotel. Its in thier best interest to get her back so she can leave. Its late at might and shes leaves in the morning, so that minimizes the possiblity that she would make a rape claim. I suspect that either she drown in the ocean on her own accord (went swimming to clean up), or was abducted by either the security guards or by other people on the beach/street.

    153. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:11 pm

      Rape is most certainly a sex crime. Desiring to have power over someone cannot land you in jail. I do think I get your point, Freya. But don’t mislead us. As a victim of a sex crime, it wasn’t men’s desire for power that causes my nightmares. It was the crime of rape.

      I agree that the urge of perpetrators to control and have power can result in rape, but it’s not the urge of control & power that send you to the slammer.

      Just my opinion…and my experience as well.

    154. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:15 pm

      I agree with your perspective…the ‘three boys’ story’, is very fishy. I just hope and pray that Natalee is safe! And at the very least…the families have answers very soon!!

    155. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:16 pm

      Phil, nice try, but robbery and rape are not analogous. I mean, given the choice, which would you choose?

      Right. I thought so.

    156. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:19 pm

      P. S.

      To Freya:

      Noun 1. sex crime – a statutory offense that provides that it is a crime to knowingly cause another person to engage in an unwanted sexual act by force or threat; “most states have replaced the common law definition of rape with statutes defining sexual assault”

    157. Red on June 7th, 2005 12:19 pm

      Gabriel Leo & all other from Aruba commenting:

      Gabriel Leo just to set the record straight I did not come to Aruba to party. I had come with my parents since I was 7. Back then there were I think 4 hotels, The Aruba Beach Club, The Divi Divi, The Americana, etc. I always went back because it was a great place and the people embraced us. I stayed with families in their homes when I got older and even dated an Aruban girl for quite some time. Not all come to Aruba just to have a drunk fest. To be honest with you back in the 80′s Aruba was not like that at all.

      Today it is and it means that one must be very responsible. That being said there are usually many things that have to occur in order for something like this to happen. IF NOT IT WOULD HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. It is an unfortunate “Perfect Storm” of bad judgment and timing that might have occurred.

      That being said please keep in mind that if a crime occurred there is much fault and in some cases none because no one can prevent an evil hearted individual from committing a crime. Nothing.

      The potential for crime to exist on Aruba exists just like everywhere. What we are witnessing is maybe evidence to that. I still am a bit puzzled as to how these two guys were hired as security guards to a hotel. The have been reported as being known drug dealers my some media in the US. Does any Aruban commenter know this to be a fact?

      Please remember who the victim is here. Rumors are rumors. We have Elvis sightings in the US still. Lets keep out eye on the ball and hope & pray for a safe outcome.

    158. phil on June 7th, 2005 12:22 pm

      Kortnie try again

      We were not talking about comparing crimes but situations…if you leave money out in plain view

      a) You are stupid.

      b) You desevre to have it taken from you.

      c) Neither

      d) Both

    159. mrs. red on June 7th, 2005 12:24 pm

      First of all – It is MRS. RED -not RED making the comments. I have seen how concerned and upset my husband Red is over this story because he lived in Aruba for a while and knows the island’s good and bad elements.

      Again, to all of the “just calling it like I see it gang”, well, so am I – I see a bunch of judgemental people that are spewing venom – from earlier posts –

      Yours (PHIL) “We need to honor Natalee with the truth that this behavior is not acceptable and this is what happens (sad but true). We need to have teens and adults being responsible and appropriate. No one in my high school class would have been in this situation (Class of ’73) because we did not have the money to go to Aruba or even Atlantic City much less party all night…I knew no women who would be caught without a buddy even with a guy they knew!

      “WOIMB – for your inforamtion a “good” girl in my day did not go to bars…much less drink with strange men and would be a virgin at 18 (unless she married young). I do not know Natalee so I make no (and I mean no) direct references to her. We should define our definitions…

      Well Phil, to me, these posts sound to me petty and mean. By the statements you qualify and then make, your thought process seems to be blame the girl, her parents, and the chaparones.

      As I have said elsewhere, her friends should have had her back, I agree and the chaparones are back pedling faster than you can type – but as one of the former graduating class from Natalee’s school stated, they have done this every year for ages. In fact, most high schools do – my high school had a cruise that all of the seniors went on and nothing like this happened.

      You reference graduating in ’73 – then don’t you come from the generation that started “free love man at Woodstock?” – you are saying in your day women didn’t drink and remained virgins – well, two things 1st – it’s 2005, not back in the day and things have changed. 2nd – I know a lot of people from your generation and trust me, they were not the saints you seem to think they were…. it’s the generation of Watergate afterall and 30+ years later y’all still don’t let this one die – so spare me the back in my day junk – that’s all it is.

      IF you continue reading or read from the beginning you will see quite a few people mention rich, young and beautiful. My main point is that it is so easy to cast stones and Monday morning quarter back. Here are a few more comments just to show you where I am coming from because IT IS venom.

      I pray this poor girl’s family and friends are not reading that kind of trash or having to hear it – For all the people like Former Deputy and the few mentioned here – I pity your children.

      KATIE: “She showed total irresponsibility by her actions. And sleeping with 3 men; shameful.”

      Katie does not know this for a fact that this young woman slept with 3 men – and RAPE isn’t sleeping with three men, BTW.

      JOHN DOE: The facts… The girl went to Aruba. Away from Mom & Dad, she went wild. Boozing it up and screwing around with the local men. Hey, this is a rich daddy’s girl from an afluent town. Went left on her own devices she chose to booze it up. Sadly, and I do mean sadly, she appears to have been taken advantage of. It is terrible, but in my opinion, the rich girl created her own mess.

      These were a couple of really nasty comments when nastiness is not required – several people had to be banned it got so bad.

      The fact that you said “keep it on the up and up” without referencing the correct party talking tells me that you are judgemental without KNOWING THE FACTS OR YOU JUST HEAR WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO – There are people on this page referencing “nascar mentality”, etc. What exactly are you trying to say? What is a Nascar mentality? Oh, that women shouldn’t be raped and killed? Well color me Nascar then please.

      However, none of this helps Natalee or her family, only our good thoughts and prayers can do that, which was the VERY reason I said “STOP SPEWING VENOM”.

    160. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:26 pm

      Why does someone have to be considered “stupid” if they make wrong choices?

      Are the elderly considered “stupid” because they fall victim to financial investment scams (as sometimes reported).

      Stupid does not describe Natalee. She is highly intelligent, and planned on going to college, not to mention her honor roll status.

      Stupid is harsh and incorrect. Vulnerable is more accurate.

      End of point.

    161. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:28 pm

      Why is it that were a man to be walking down the street stark naked I’d run inside, lock the door, and call the cops.

      Why is it that were a woman to be walking down the street in the same condition some men would consider that an opportunity to bodily assault and harm, maybe even kill, the woman?

      I am not talking about “stupidity” or not being “prudent.” I’m talking about MORALITY.

    162. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:30 pm

      Here, here Mrs. Red….once again!!

      Thank you!

    163. Tara on June 7th, 2005 12:34 pm

      I have been following this case from the island of Curacao. Everyone here is worried about Natalee as well. I did want to add my 2 cents though.

      In my opinion, what she did was not in the best judgment but who are we to judge. I am also highly intelligent and considered a level headed person but I have also done similar things like getting in cars with strangers and I was in my 20′s!!!! I was extremely lucky that I have friends that care about me and that were always calling to find out what I was up to. We look out for eachother and are not afraid to tell eachother off if need be. Her friends failed to do this but then again, maybe they were too busy partying and maybe the guys looked trustworthy. Point is, we don’t know and can’t judge.

      Try to focus your efforts on prayers instead of judgment.

    164. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:35 pm

      Mrs. Red, by referring to Jill as having a “nascar mentality,” Taliban-esque “Former Deputy” meant she was dumb.

      She is not. In fact, as anyone on this board with two neurons firing can tell, it’s exactly the reverse.

    165. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:40 pm

      Tara, there are plenty of us on here not judging – mostly the females.

      That’s because we know what it’s like to live under patriarchal domination.

      The men, some of them, are clueless as to how females must live in this world, i.e., like hunted prey.

    166. phil on June 7th, 2005 12:40 pm

      Dear Mrs. Red…

      I am sorry if you have taken my thoughts the way you have…they are not intented to blame anyone…the 70′s were way more conservative even in light of the freedom realized in the 1960′s. We did not have cuises and trips to Spring Break…and that is all OK…I do not want to prevent anyone from have fun. It all great! You should lighten up Mrs. Red. Watergate was nothing compared to the corporate corruption of today…and I do wish that love was free. Love, Peace, No War…Right on Sister!!!

      And you know what…it could happen to the most careful person (and does).

      MomfromMO “stupid” may not be the best word but vulnerablemay not be right either…how about unwise. But than again “stupid is as stupid does”.

      But in my naive little town we still knew how not to be vulnerable or unwise…to protect ourselves…

    167. Girl from Alabama on June 7th, 2005 12:40 pm

      people.. let’s think of what she was wearing. i am around the age of natalee, and if the news was correct, she was wearing a green top and mini skirt that she had on in a picture that the news provided. if someone is in an island paradise with 80-90 degree weather, they are not going to be wearing turtlenecks and sweatpants. many girls my age dress way more flashy than what she supposedly had on. people cannot blame her for wearing those clothes though because cute clothes like those are made to wear in warm weather and show off a nice tan. did what she have on have something to do with her being taken? maybe, but i highly doubt she was the only one at carlos and charlies in a skirt and tank top. hopefully she will be found alive, but as the days go by, it seems otherwise.

    168. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:44 pm

      50 yr old Phil, you need to stop speaking for females, because you don’t know what you are talking about.

      ALL females are “vulnerable” in this world just by being female. Did you know that adult men rape female infants?

      Case closed.

    169. Tom on June 7th, 2005 12:48 pm


      Lets tone it down or I will shut down the discussion. It is easy to throw blame or decry the world is unfair. It is unfair for all.

      This discussion is one step away from denigrating into a state where Godwins law goes into effect. For those who do not know , Godwins Law states “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. ”

      We have hit the Nascar level, which must be a corollary to this law, and I trust all not to let it go any further. Nuff said.

    170. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:49 pm

      I agree that it is clear that the general consensus by (most) females on this board shows intelligence, common sense, consistency and morality…..and on & on.

      Polls show that’s why most females make better managers. (most) Males jump to conclusions…and think with the ‘wrong’ head. Sad, but nevertheless, true.

      Thanx for stickin’ up for me, my friend

      *hugs to Kortnie* *prayers to Natalee & family*

    171. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 12:49 pm

      i know mickey and spent alot of time with him on two recent trips to aruba.
      i traveled alone and partied there with locals. i am still alive and if mickey were a killer, rapist or evil minded i wouldn’t be here as he had plenty of chances to put something in my drink,etc. i hope that natalie is found.

    172. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 12:49 pm

      i know mickey and spent alot of time with him on two recent trips to aruba.
      i traveled alone and partied there with locals. i am still alive and if mickey were a killer, rapist or evil minded i wouldn’t be here as he had plenty of chances to put something in my drink,etc. i hope that natalie is found.

    173. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:52 pm


      Not including Tom of course!

      Praying for Natalee

    174. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 12:54 pm

      After getting the latest news about the two in custody being of the trolling type, going from hotel to hotel befriending female guests, I remembered a post from earlier today that I will post part of again. I have a feeling they do have the correct people in custody and that it will be only a matter of time before we get an answer. (Hopefully) If only they would let us know the truth. It has been a long 8 to 9 days of torture. The search has now been discontinued

      As JOANNE PECK stated today on this board:

    175. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 12:54 pm

      You’re welcome, Jill! You Go, Girl!

      Who is “mickey john?”

    176. phil on June 7th, 2005 12:56 pm


      When did I speak for females…

      I never even use the vulnerable word…

    177. Red on June 7th, 2005 12:56 pm

      MOM from MO

      What am I chopped liver?

      Tom, looks like we are getting very close to our certification in “Respectful Disagreement”.

    178. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:57 pm


      I don’t know who Mickey John is…maybe his ‘friend’ can elaborate?

      CeeCee: The search has been DISCONTINUED? Please elaborate.

    179. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 12:58 pm

      OMG!! Red, I am sooooo sorry!!! Maybe Mrs. Red can pass on a peace offering for me??? LOL

      *hangs head in shame*

    180. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 1:00 pm

      I know with all this ridiculousness it is easy to miss the NEWS
      Source: Aruba suspects trolled island hotels
      Massive search for missing Alabama teen stopped
      Tuesday, June 7, 2005 Posted: 12:35 PM EDT (1635 GMT)

    181. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 1:04 pm

      CeeCee, do you have a link to read up on the latest news, or are you listening LIVE???

      Thank you so much for the update. Please keep us abreast, if you can. I hope it’s good news!

    182. Tom on June 7th, 2005 1:04 pm

      CeeCee – Where did you source the information? Do you have a link?


    183. Another Father on June 7th, 2005 1:04 pm

      The word is that the 2 security guards, who were taken into custody, are a bit “dodgy” and may have a criminal record related to drugs. One of the commentators on the blog suggests that she has personal experience of them “hitting on” tourist girls, which may well be true, but isn’t necessarily uncommon or criminal. So far as I’m aware, tho’, nothing but proximity connects them to Ms. Holloway, tho’ I would think there would have to be more to justify their apparent arrest.

      I am unable to find the source for the information that the 3 “boys”/men with whom she got in the car admitted to any kind of sex with her, consensual or otherwise. The timing of events, given their insistence that they returned her to the hotel around 1:30 AM, would have left little time for consensual sex, let alone consensual sex on the beach to which they were allegedly taking her. (their insistence that they returned her to the hotel also makes it unlikely that she drowned after she went into the ocean for a post-coital wash-off). It’s almost certain, if there was any sex in that circumstance, it was not likely consensual or “consensual” only in the sense that she was too drugged or drunk to object. The key evidence for me is the report that NO security camera confirms that they ever returned her to the hotel, as claimed. Since one of these individuals in the car is reportedly “well-connected” in Aruban society, it is possible that the security guards are being positioned to take the rap for the real perpetrator – they’re the only ones who could contradict his assertion that Ms. Holloway was returned to the hotel, ipso facto, gee, they must be guilty of abducting her after she was returned. To me, the evidence all points to the 3 in the car.

      What is clear is that the hope of the family and of the Arubans that she is, in fact, alive, is pretty ill-founded. It is possible that she did engage in some kind of inappropriate behavior and is too ashamed to come out of hiding (the “Runaway Bride” scenario), but the on-scene investigators specifically requested and the FBI imediately dispatched a “dive team”. They are NOT sending a specialist dive team to look for her missing handbag. Somebody is convinced that she was murdered and dumped in the ocean. The third alternative is that she was abducted for the “White Slave Trade”, which, if it sounds terribly conspiratorial/very “Fu Manchu-ish”, in fact, has some substance to it, given the proximity to Venezuela and Columbia, where Amnesty Int’l and the Anti-Slavery Society have documented such human trafficking. That may be the link by which they’ve justified holding the security guards, if, in fact, they have contact with drug traffickers, since the two forms of trafficking (like in the old “Triangular Trade”) tend to go hand in hand.

      I wish I could be more optimistic. I cannot be, I can merely hold my own girls and shudder at the thought of how easily it might be them.

    184. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 1:07 pm

      I am all over the place looking for info and trying to piece this together as it is happening. I believe I got the info from CNN. I really love Aruba and feel badly for both the island and moreover the Holloway family

    185. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 1:08 pm

      mickey john is the security gaurd at the allegro who was areeseted .
      he may know something, but there is no way he hurt natalie. no way.
      He had every chance to kill or rob me. I was with him for 2 weeks in aruba, he let me borrow his truck to go out while he was working at the hotel. He is not a killer
      He may know something, but there is no way he hurt her. I also don’t think he would cover for the original 3 “persons of interest” if he had any idea that a girl was in trouble, or had been killed. He wouldn’t risk his job at the allegro. I know him. I hope the truth comes out and that natalie is found safe.

    186. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 1:09 pm

      Cee Cee – thank you! I don’t watch tv – get my news from I-net and mostly don’t feel like searching websites. Thanks for the update.

      Friend of Mickey John – Who the heck is Mickey John?

    187. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 1:09 pm

      Another Father,
      Thank you for sharing. You have wonderful insight. I appreciate it.

      Please share if you hear anything else.

    188. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 1:10 pm

      Nevermind – thanks! post went up after I inquired on Mickey John.

    189. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 1:11 pm
    190. Tom on June 7th, 2005 1:11 pm

      Thanks CeeCee, We have it at the top of the main page of Scared Monkeys!

    191. CeeCee on June 7th, 2005 1:12 pm

      friend of: Yes this is important to know about your friend. This is just like a puzzle and we need to find the missing pieces. I do think that it is only a matter of time before they break down and give that vital piece we need

    192. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 1:19 pm

      Tom, Red & CeeCee:

      After reading the CNN article (posted at the top of this page), I am a loss why the search has been stopped. Maybe news is still pending?

      So, with that…I emailed a question to CNN Producers, “Is the search stopped?”

      Will see if they reply back..

    193. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 1:23 pm

      based on what I know about mickey john, his life, etc… i think that he is being used as a scapegoat for the original 3 persons of interest, who he most likely knows and may get drugs from them/their friends to sell to tourists. His family is poor and he lives with his mom and 9 year old brother. he has no $$ to defend himself…unlike the 3 local persons of interest , one who has a judge for a dad, and anotherrs dad is a lawyer.
      Ironic these 3 original persons are not named or photographed.

    194. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 1:26 pm

      You are correct in that the 3 original persons are not named or photographed.

      Could it be because they are legally minors? If that’s the case, we may not hear for some time, who they are.

      It’s only a guessing name right now….Is it a wonder Natalee’s family on on a roller coaster?

    195. silentpeach on June 7th, 2005 1:26 pm

      freind of Mickey John ~ is this “white slave trade” into Venezuela/columbia something you have heard of before?

    196. G on June 7th, 2005 1:26 pm

      I’ve read so many rediculous and assinine comments that I don’t know where to start. It seems to me that there are some people among this group who are just trying to appear interesting.
      Stop trying to blame Aruba, stop trying to blame Natalee, stop blaming the chaparones, stop blaming the parents, stop blaming Carlos & Charlies, Michael Jackson, the pope, Elvis Presley, and whoever else has gotten blame in this.
      It’s an extremely serious and unfortunate incident that could (or perhaps could not have) been prevented, we’ll never know.
      I mean really, something like this has never ever happened on the island of Aruba, I know it can happen anywhere and at any time, but life’s about assuming things, you reasonably expect things to be as you know them to be from past experience. Nothing could have indicated that somehting like this would happen in Aruba. There has been no increase in crime, especially no violent crime (again I’m assuming that’s what happened, but it’s not a fact!). Why would people have to expect something bad to happen because there weren’t enough chaparones or whatever other reasons that were brought forth? If tomorrow a teen gets eaten by a shark off the Florida waters there will be a forum just like this one where we will once again resort to calling the parents stupid for letting her swim alone or too far off the coast or whatever, she will have asked for it because she swam at dusk and everybody knows that this is when the sharks come out, and blabla bla bla …..
      Give it a rest, be sympathetic and stop making an ass out of yourself.
      ps if the shoe fits wear it.

    197. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 1:30 pm

      silent peach-
      i never heard of the white slave trade, but really, so what?? I just know mickey wouldn’t hurt anyone.

    198. PA MOM on June 7th, 2005 1:33 pm

      G -
      It’s natural for people to speculate. Take the useful info and discard the rest. If you don’t like what you read here, then move on.
      Most of us in this forum are genuinely concerned for Natalee and her family.

    199. Another Father on June 7th, 2005 1:35 pm

      “Friend of Mickey John’s” comments, if credible, increase my own feeling that the guys in the car, not the security guards, are the culprits. Just show me a security camera picture of these guys returning Ms. Holloway to the hotel, as claimed, and they are exonerated. Otherwise, it would simply be too easy to arrest the security guards, then “discover” the body and claim the crime against them, thereby ensuring immunity for the perpetrator. Regrettably, I’ve not been able to confirm the word that the search has been called off.

    200. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 1:35 pm

      as far as i know the 3 are over 18 and have well connected parents in aruba.
      The 3 are not students, they are known as “the dealers”. If anything mickey is a very small fish in a big pond.

    201. ma on June 7th, 2005 1:37 pm

      hi, i have been reading the post. this is a very unfortunate incident, and could have happened ANYWHERE ! but how about the chaperones? How about her roommate? Where were they?
      If you wake up and your roommate is not in the room,you could have asked where she was, or is that the way we treat friend.who is responsible? I don’t know, but the people in charge of these kids, since their parents are not there, is the chaperones!!!! Why are they so quiet, why did they not available for intervieuw? I think we should start looking for some clue there.

    202. silentpeach on June 7th, 2005 1:38 pm

      freind of mickey John ~ I’m not saying he’s guilty, I acutally agree with you that he’s being used as a scapegoat. I’m asking you this question b/c you are obviously living in Aruba and I didn’t know if this whole slave thing is a crock or an actual problem.

    203. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 1:42 pm

      silent peach-
      I don’t live in aruba. I go there once or twice a year and have some local friends there.
      mickey picked me up at the airport when i went in november.

    204. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 1:48 pm

      G, when you learn how to spell I might listen to something you have to say. YOU stop making an ass out of YOURself.

      Of course Human Trafficking is real. And it affects primarily women and children. A blue-eyed young blonde would be a prized possession.

      I don’t know if this happened to poor Natalee. Personally I think she’s swimming with the fishes.

    205. Another Father on June 7th, 2005 1:54 pm

      Okay, didn’t mean to cause a furor with the term “White Slavery”. It’s an unfortunate Victorian hold-over, used to denote the trafficking in women (NOT just white women) for sexual purposes. If you are interested, you can go to the ANTI-SLAVERY SOCIETY’S website, The organization was started by William Wilberforce, back in the 18th Century, and has been the leading organization for fighting slavery since then. They, like Amnesty Int’l, are an NGA, which credibly monitors and reports on human rights abuses throughout the world. Read up, it’s pretty enlightening. BTW, “Friend of Mickey John’s” is right, the 3 men in the car are listed as ages 18 to 25 (i.e., no minors). Thanks.

    206. Red on June 7th, 2005 1:55 pm

      G comes on and professes to know all the history of Aruba.

      “I mean really, something like this has never ever happened on the island of Aruba,”

      Ahh G, yes it has. If you are thinking of the worst, it actually has occurred in Aruba. All be it not often and quite a while ago there has been a case of a tourist murder.

      G says, “Stop trying to blame Aruba”
      No one is really blaming Aruba and personally there will be enough blame to go around later. There will also be many unfortunately living with the guilt of what they could have done. Unfortunately that is what happens when something like this occurs.

    207. Red on June 7th, 2005 1:59 pm

      One thing is for certain. After reading the fact that these “alleged” predators were trolling the hotels and some asinine company actually hired them (reported by Birmingham News that the 2 were known drug dealers).

      Does anyone think that the Aruba Hotels are not going to have to screen the help a little better. This has nothing to do with blame. This has to do with keeping guests safe and making the tourists have peace of mind.

    208. bubbalou on June 7th, 2005 2:03 pm

      What evidence exists that the three actually took her back to the hotel? rather than dumping her on the rough side of the island by the lighthouse?

      When I was in BHAM, I worked with a girl who hooked up with a guy she met as a camp counselor in upstate NY. The guy came down to BHAM with a couple of his friends that she did not know. Anyway, they found her raped and beaten to death with dumbbell and stuffed under her bed in her own apartment. They caught the guys in Atlanta after they had used her ATM card.

      Its an MO..get friendly with the victim and then pounce.

      Human trafficking seems like a long shot. Possible I suppose, but rape or rape and murder seems more likely.

    209. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 2:09 pm

      bubbalou- i agree totally. if anything the original 3 asked the security gaurds to say that they saw her going back towards the hotel, without letting them know of her true condition/fate/location.

    210. ma on June 7th, 2005 2:12 pm

      From a missing teen to human trafficking?????
      Once again, where are the chaperones,and her roommate?
      we can have some insights of what they were doing that night, early morning.
      If some Arubian girl goes on a bar trip in new york, and she gets drunk,and decides that she leaves the club with three unknown guys, would mayor Bloomberg give the people half day of the search for that poor girl ??????????
      Aruba is getting slammed, and where are the people in charge of these kids !!!

    211. bubbalou on June 7th, 2005 2:28 pm

      My understanding is that

      1) She got into a car with one of the three, not knowing the other two were already in the car. She was able to yell from the car window to her friends.
      2) The four went somewhere, potentially the lighthouse as per the testimony of the three, for sex.
      3) The ligthhouse site was searched and no traces of any wrong doing were found
      4) The three said they dropped her offf by the hotel and said they saw her talking to the guards.

      What we can only confirm is that she left in a car with 3 men and that all her luggage is in the hotel. Everything else is testimony from possible suspects. There doesn’t seem to be any third party witnesses or input.

      We have reports of some sightings, but the girl looks like many other girls.

    212. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 2:36 pm

      To Red:

      I thought that also…some time ago. What kind of hotel would hire ‘known drug dealers’??? Good grief! Makes ME feel safe. If anything should be considered ‘stupid here’, it’s a hotel hiring known drug dealers, who have a history of offering drugs to customers, and trolling for women? Gee…makes me what kind of background check they did with their City Officials.

      Anyone for a game of Clue????

    213. TLC on June 7th, 2005 2:42 pm

      Reports say the 2 men are not cooperating with the investigation, why aren’t they? The police here are so tight lipped that if it weren’t for CNN and forum like this one, people here would not know much.
      However this turns out I hope whom ever is guilty gets extradited to the U.S. cause the prison senteces here are a joke sometimes, but we have to live with it, that’s Dutch Law.

    214. friend of mickey john on June 7th, 2005 2:46 pm

      drugs are everywhere. Hotel emplyees in resort areas have drug connections because the tourists ask for drugs all the time. It goes on all the time, up and down the beach, in the hotels,bars,etc…. If tourists weren’t such good customers, these guys wouldn’t be selling drugs to them, right? you probably shouldn’t go to the islands.

    215. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 2:49 pm

      I’m with ya, TLC!
      But, regarding the ‘extradition the the US’…that would be impossible, since the ‘crime’ was committed in Aruba. I would hope that once the truth is found out, and in fact a crime has been committed, that the perpetrator(s) are brought to REAL justice.

      We shall see…

      btw…where did you learn that the 2 in custody are not cooperating?

    216. TLC on June 7th, 2005 2:53 pm

      To MomfromMO:

      I heard it on CNN and a morning talk show, while I was flipping through channels.

    217. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 2:54 pm

      I’m not surprised you said that…coming from a ‘friend’ of mickey. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if there are drugs every where in Aruba…That makes it okay to have security guards pushing them? Should they also hire professional rapists, since American women are vulnerable?

      Good grief.

    218. silentpeach on June 7th, 2005 2:55 pm

      Drugs are definitely everywhere (even in clubs in the US like you wouldn’t believe) and trying to say that hotels need to be doing more serious background checks is a joke. As long as there are people wanting drugs, they will be around. the simple law of Supply and Demand. Plus any smart person in the need of a job will stop doing drugs for a certian amount of time in order to pass any required drug tests. So, the hotels could very well be screening yet just unable to catch anyone. Random drug screening would get to be very expensive I’m sure and they probably don’t have the time or $ for doing so in order to catch someone who wasn’t caught in the actual hiring process.

    219. Red on June 7th, 2005 2:57 pm

      According to AP, Aruban police say may be not ruling out Accidental Death,

      Not buying that at all.

    220. Another Father on June 7th, 2005 2:59 pm

      The word I get from the news (who knows its reliability?) is that, of the 2 security guards, 1 had a minor drug arrest. Apparently, as well, they liked to “hit on” drunken, white, tourist girls in the hopes of getting “lucky” and they weren’t above offering to hook them up with some ganja, actions which would likely indict about 80% of the male hotel staff in the Caribbean. That’s pretty thin as grounds to assume they’ve abducted, raped and murdered someone, especially since there is no evidence, after she got in the car with the 3 other “persons of interest” (who were “cleared” amazingly quickly), that she ever had cause to interact with the guards in question. or, for that matter, ever really returned (or was returned) to the hotel. That just smells like a frame-up to me, esp. if, as seems possible, the guys in the car have “connections” within Aruban society.

      And, no, Aruba is not to blame. It’s not even certain that a native Aruban is involved, since 2 of the 3 in the car reportedly were Dutch citizens of Surinamese descent, tho’ resident, now, in Aruba.

      The truly frustrating thing is that this young woman disappeared while surrounded by her “friends” and this is ALL we know? Nobody saw anything? Heard anything? Did anything? Good God, I can only hope we are not ALL that callous toward each other. I’m just totally appalled that this could happen and not a single “friend” (let alone the appointed chaperones) saw anything or attempted to intervene. I so, so ache for this family.

    221. Gabriel Leo on June 7th, 2005 3:00 pm

      RED RED RED…..Did we (aruba) do something to you that you bring up certain comments? You seem to know Aruba better than I do, you seem to have been raised here on the island and you seem to know exactly whats the deal…my my, I must say you are our HEROE, you should become Prime minister of maybe the FBI, you seem to be the one who knows all ..;)

    222. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 3:00 pm

      I’m getting the sense from a couple of posters here, that since drugs are abound in Aruba, it’s okay.

      But it’s not okay for an 18-yr old to be in a club drinking, since they have THAT available as well?

      I smell contradiction. Peeeee-ewwwww!!

    223. TLC on June 7th, 2005 3:01 pm

      I don’t know how it is in the U.S. but here a year in jail is 9 months and not a calendar year. So whatever they find and whomever they charge, those charges better stick, cause every month counts.

    224. Kortnie on June 7th, 2005 3:03 pm

      Hi Mrs. Red – Accidental Death? What death? They now know she’s dead?

      It seems to me that if they called off the search, they must know SOMETHING.

    225. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 3:03 pm

      People don’t compare jamaica to aruba, we are a very quite island and things like that don’t happen here
      Things like this don’t happen here either

      as for Arubians aren’t delusianal about sighting her
      she seems to be having a good time and all smiles everytime they spot her
      the search been called of since it is pointless to search in the mondies or at rural areas of the island she is more likely hiding out at someones place
      she’e been spotted eating at little restaurants
      but the investigation isn’t commenting on nothing leaving room for interpretation of the US & international press
      we are used to this silent
      because it’s a small island and information can mayorly jepordize the investigation

    226. TLC on June 7th, 2005 3:04 pm

      By the way we get “Law & Order” here on cable, so maybe these 2 guys and the other 3 sitting at home have the same school of thought: “No Natalee, no crime”

    227. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 3:06 pm

      Nore drugs nore alcohol is good on this island
      you should really stop asuming things you don’t know

      as for you guys say our guys pray on tourist girls
      girls hit on them
      and ps
      look at your teens who shoot people because they want to

    228. bubbalou on June 7th, 2005 3:08 pm

      Its possible that she went for a swim to wash up and drown. Could even be ‘suicide’ depending on the trama.

      I have a feeling that we will never know and that the Accidental Death headling is expectation management.

    229. Juvenal on June 7th, 2005 3:10 pm


      Those sound like GHOST sightings to me.

      If people saw her eating in a restaurant, and she was smiling and having a good time, wouldn’t they walk over and tell her, “Umm, everybody’s been looking for you. They think you’ve been murdered. You really ought to get in touch with your mom and let her know you’re okay.”

      And don’t you think even somebody that didn’t want to be found, even if she were an extremely callous person, would make a quick pay-phone call to tell people she was still alive?

      The only way she’s still alive is if she’s being held captive somewhere.

    230. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 3:12 pm

      I hear ya, but…good grief…why (if the 3 boys’ stories are true), would she walk back to the beach to ‘wash up’, when she was supposedly dropped off at the Holiday Inn?? They actually have bathroom facilities included in their rooms!

      Sorry for the sarcasm….but accidental drowning is only possible IF the 3 boys are lying thru their teeth. Which is what I think, anyway.

    231. LocalFemale on June 7th, 2005 3:13 pm

      not if she doesn’t want to be found

    232. bubbalou on June 7th, 2005 3:14 pm

      What about money? It makes no sense for her to stay in hiding. Besides, who’s helping her and why?

      She looks like other girls. I think its mistaken identity.

      We will probably never know what happened and that really sucks for the family.

    233. John on June 7th, 2005 3:15 pm

      I want to reply to all the messages that are too negative for Aruba. American Girls go to Aruba, because they see Aruba as a Spring Break Paradise. All the women are feeling attracted to the Arubian men. The American woman are really hot and will have allot of sex when they are on vacation. Nobody has seen Nathalee being forced to enter with those boys in the car. I think she’s having a big problem home with her family, and want to get a away. In her last year book she wrote something about discorvering the world. Maybe she too a boat to Venezuela. I hope it’s so and if it’s so, THE ARUBIAN POPULATION expect an official sorry from the news and the US. Or can it be that the Stepmother, Mother, Stepfather. Father are playing with the evidence to cash an Insurance check? Come on, they didn’t put a higher reward than the 10.000 Dollars? The family thinks that money can buy something, they are playing with the press and the name of Aruba. But the famiy should know that MONEY CAN’T BUY LOVE!

    234. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 3:15 pm

      If Natalee didn’t want to be found, do you think she’d be stupid enough to be around, smiling in a restaurant, as not having a care in the world?

      Get a grip.

    235. Red on June 7th, 2005 3:16 pm

      Gabriel Leo

      What comments do you refer to? The fact that I do not buy that it’s accidental? Read my comments throughout Gabriel Leo and stop being a wise ass. I have said Aruba is a great place, is it what it used to be before the glut of hotels, personally I say no.

      BTW, do you know if the 2 suspects are :known drug dealers” as what has been reported?

      I have always liked the island and the people, if you read previous comments you would know that. Its just not what it used to be. Arubans, the many I have met were fun loving great people. 99% of Arubans I have ever met were great.

      Don’t take it so personally Gabe. Things don’t just happen. A confluence of events have to take place and they could happen anywhere. Do I think that tourists should be more careful, sure do. Do I believe that the hotels should be more careful as to who they hire, sure do.

      If you are referring to not buying the accidental accident … then you missed the post when the US Representative from AL who was influential in requesting the FBI go there said,

      Here are some interesting (disturbing) comments from U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills,

      U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway’s disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details.

      “The circumstances were disturbing,” said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI’s involvement. “I can’t get into it, but it’s something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off.”


    236. bubbalou on June 7th, 2005 3:17 pm

      She may use the beach so that she can clean up and hide what happened from whomever she bumps into in the hotel on the way to the room.

    237. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 3:18 pm

      John, I’m so glad there aren’t IQ tests required for this post.

      You’re entire post is filled with fantasy, lies & filth. I take it you’re Arubian…and I’ve got news for you…as a ‘hot American girl, you do NOTHING for me”.

      You’re pathetic.

      Red & Tom: Please delete this moron.

    238. susan on June 7th, 2005 3:20 pm

      please i’am a arubian citizen and i can tell you that in aruba peolple party a lot like every were around the world but here we don’t have spring break or girls gone wild like in the states because girls from the states are very hot and they don’t care what they do and when they come here especially when they come in a big group like natalee they want to party a lot and get drunk and druged and when they come here they also like to search for men because they don’t get what they want in the states because american guys are to o gold not like here so it’s her fault that she is lost right now because no one did put a gun on her head and told her to get in the car or use drug or such things and then go to ligt house with three guys i think she was to hot at that time and maybe she don’t want to go because she don’t want to go back home because of her problems and this is really bad for aruba all what is happening

    239. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 3:22 pm

      I take it, they don’t teach punctuation in English class in Aruba?

    240. MOMfromMO on June 7th, 2005 3:23 pm

      stay in Aruba, Susan. They deserve you.

    241. Tom on June 7th, 2005 3:23 pm

      I am closing comments on this post just because the reload time have gotten out of control. The page size is 250 kb. So go to the comment post and we can keep this going
      Thanks for your help and participation everyone!

      Go here to the comment post

      Comment Post

    242. Scared Monkeys » » Natalee Holloway Information II on June 7th, 2005 3:34 pm

      Jackson’s Junction
      American Mind

      « Natalee Holloway Information

      Natalee Holloway Information II

      by Tom Our thou [...]

    243. Scared Monkeys » » Natalee Holloway Information II on June 7th, 2005 3:34 pm

      Jackson’s Junction
      American Mind

      « Natalee Holloway Information

      Natalee Holloway Information II

      by Tom Our thou [...]

    244. diet pill free shipping on August 4th, 2005 2:41 am

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