RSSNatalee Holloway Morning Update, June 20th, 2005
Very little happened over night that was reported. Joran Van der Sloots father was questioned for two hours, and then sent home.
This is a refresher for those who do not know Dutch and Aruban law. Their system is much different than that in the United States. A prisoner is guilty until proven innocent. However, if the prosecution puts too much information out to the public over the case, the judge has the right to throw out the charges since the prosecution has been seen to unfairly treat the prisoner.
So as the prosecutors in the United States tend to release all of the information to the public that it can, the opposite is true in Aruba. Thus, many things positively may be happening in Aruba that we do not know about. If they were released to the public, the suspects could walk free. So their system requires a level of patience that Americans have been conditioned not to have.
Please keep this in mind as the case progresses.
Aruban police on Sunday questioned the father of a Dutch teenager held in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager, hoping the island justice official may know something to help solve the mystery of what happened to her, an official said.
Paul van der Sloot, a judge-in-training on the island, was questioned for two hours Sunday afternoon after five hours Saturday night, said Police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten.
Joran van der Sloot , 17, was one of the people last seen with Natalee Holloway the night she disappeared. Three other men have been detained, but no one has been charged.
Van der Straaten said the father was asked to come back Sunday because officials were not able to finish the interrogation on Saturday, but declined to give more details.
“He was questioned as a witness, no more or no less,” van der Straaten told The Associated Press.
The attorney general’s spokeswoman, Mariaine Croes, said witnesses are questioned when prosecutors believe they may be able to add something to the case.
Police Commissioner Jan Van Der Straten said police questioned Judge Paul Van Der Sloot while his wife, Anita, visited their son, 17-year-old Joran, who is being held in connection with the case.
Van Der Straten dismissed as “completely false” media reports that police also had interrogated the judge’s wife.
Joran Van Der Sloot is one of three people last reported seen with Holloway before she disappeared in the early hours of May 30.
The judge also was questioned Saturday and remained in the police station for about five hours. Asked Saturday whether the father was being interviewed as a suspect or a witness, a source close to the investigation said “the latter.”
Also jailed in the case are brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, and a man identified by a family member as Steve Croes, a 26-year-old disc jockey for a popular party boat. He was arrested Friday. (Full story)
The commissioner said the suspects were being held in separate facilities in the capital to ensure they cannot communicate with one another.
The police commissioner said Saturday the arrest of Croes came after one of the three youths named him. The party boat he works aboard docks about 300 meters, or about 1,000 feet, from the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.
UPDATE: AP, Judge to Decide if Police Can Hold Fourth Man Arrested in Missing Teenager Case in Aruba
A fourth man arrested in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager – a disc jockey on a party boat – is to appear in court Monday for a judge to decide whether police can continue to detain him, officials said.
Also, here is a site that has captured the video’s of many of the newscasts. The only reason I have not posted previously is that it is a tripod site, and they tend to have a bunch of pop up ads. If you have a pop up blocker, head on over.
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256 Responses to “Natalee Holloway Morning Update, June 20th, 2005”
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Seems he should have made his ruling by now………it’s 10:30am!
The boards are terrible today – I guess maybe because of lack of news – Did anyone see on Fox last night, they interviewed an aruban cop and an aruban lawyer – if so what did you think when the cop said they need to be giving lie detector tests to NH’s family and friends. It seems to me atleast a segment of Aruba is starting to resent NH’s family. Thoughts?
“This is a refresher for those who do not know Dutch and Aruban law. Their system is much different than that in the United States. A prisoner is guilty until proven innocent.”
Hmm…as far as I know, that’s not true. A suspect is INNOCENT until proven guilty. If the judge thinks there’s enough evidence/suspicion, the suspect can be hold, but that doesn”t mean the suspecy is “guilty”.
Did anyone see on Fox last night, they interviewed an aruban cop and an aruban lawyer – if so what did you think when the cop said they need to be giving lie detector tests to NH’s family and friends. It seems to me atleast a segment of Aruba is starting to resent NH’s family. Thoughts?
crs -
Yes, I saw that report ……. I thought it was very unique and I think Arubans are not resenting the NH family but, it was to try ALL ANGLES in the investigation ….. something may come to light …. all of NH’s friends say only the good things about the trip ….. maybe someone knows something ……..
If there is something else to know, and I don’t think there is, but if there is, they’ve told the correct authorities already. I don’t know what they think they could be hiding. THey’re victims.
I think lie detector tests should be given to the suspects in custody as well as the father of Van Der Sloot if they haven’t taken a test as of yet.
I thought it was a very odd comment and he made a point to say it twice- it gave me the vibe they are tired of the american press and NH’s family saying want a bunch of boobs they are – Long story short I hope they do not start to shortchange the investigation out of malice over the media.
CRS, good call… just for nobody in the future thinks that NH’s family was “priviliged”. must be tough to swallow though. Just as hard to swallow that Arubans are pulled through the mud my the media after years of hard work and humble serviciality to America. I hope more and more human understanding comes out.
The excuse is that a test is not admissable as evidence in a court of law, and therefore considered usless. Of course, it is not considered evidence HERE, either, but we have the sense to cover all bases. THe fact is that these tests are NOT foolproof, but if they are innocent, as they claim, all it could do is help them with their credibility to take one.
My dad’s a lawyer and he explained all this to me yesterday. He basically said that there’s no reason not to take one, and to him it looks a little suspicious that the offer isn’t being taken.
Dan,
You are so right about American patience. We have a “QwickyMart” mentality. Add the fear and tragity of this event and we tend to boil very quickly. If what you say is true, then do to what HAS been released, there must be some very good evidence being withheld. I feel (only slightly) less sick to my stomach. Thanks so much.
Checkme – What is the latest you are hearing – you have had some good insights lately.
Obviously under Dutch law, lie detector tests are out of the question. (I know a dead horse when I see one beaten.) My question, is it true, again under Dutch law, murder charges cannot be brought without a body?
No – they do not need the body – but in this case with seemingly little forensic evidence it would be very difficult- the defense could simply argue she is still alive somehwere.
Marshall
I guess it is pride pointing this out, but Dan is over at Riehl World.
Tom and Red do the posting here.
Yes, or argue an accidental death (drowning during midnight swim?)
As americans, we do lack patience but we are accustomed to getting the answers we need in a much more timely manner and with a stronger due process involved. If you really think about how many american women have come up missing, then you realize the sense of urgency we are accustomed to. In recent years we had Chandra Levy, Lori Hacking, Laci Peterson, those poor little girls molested and killed in Florida….and these are just to name a few. All of except the Chandra Levy case has been solved. The reason…..The American way of DUE PROCESS!
As americans we are having great difficulty not KNOWING nor understanding their legal system thus causing great frustration for all those following this case.
It is incredible to me that the suspects have not yet been given lie detector tests! The Kalpoe brothers keep lying and changing their stories.
Truth serum should also be used. Many liberals may recoil at that idea, but we must remember that a girl’s life may be at stake. If she is being held captive, almost any means to find and rescue her would be justified.
I don’t necessarily agree – for example – Laci Peterson – if the bodies didn’t wash up, SP is still walking around free today playing golf.
With the changing stories (=lies) nobody can build any case on them without a body…
CRC,
Thanks for the compliment. You know, Aruba has a dark and grey cloud over it. We don’t think tourism will be adversily affected, maybe even positively. It’s not the American opninion of Aruba I am worried about. It’s the Aruban; aruba never will be the same. The pink cloud we were all on has popped. Aruba is part of this world and terrible things happen here also. It takes away the innocence. I guess there is an analogy with Joran becoming an adult quickly, without the innocence of youth. Aruba is growing up.
Its interesting they think that Natalee’s family should undergo a polygraph but the police won’t let the FBI administer one to each of the three main suspects. If I were the FBI, I would tell these clowns that Natalee’s parents will be subjected to one if they can administer one to the suspects as well.
I think this week the judge has to decide whether to continue holding the main three based on what charges the prosecuter has come up with so hopefully we will get some further insight this week on the actual charges.
Thoughts on why Steve Croes was brought in? Do you think he will continue to be held?
John Marson
Remember with lie detector tests, even in the US, they have to agree to take them. Cannot be forced to take a lie detector test. Personally, I think they may need to be sent to GITMO for the day for a Q&A session.
KatCall
Yes there is due process in the US, but could you imagine the number of crimes that would be solves if in the US we were able to detain suspects for 8 days, not 24 without any real evidence? Then over a 140 days without charging with a crime? The ACLU would go mental.
The Arubans really do need to ask for help in this at all cost and from an Aruban PR point of view this has been, lets just say really bad.
Should NH’s family face the fact that she may never be recoverd? Does she have info so that she knows she will be recovered? Or are we seeing the process of denial-anger-acceptance? I think the boyz did not do anything. I am happy I always dropped my dates off at their door and checked that they went in OK. Something like this could have happened to me the same. I do believe she was nabbed before she reached her hotel room. Swimming out of the question, current does not take you away at palm beach… But after she was nabbed by bad adults, possibly even people here for the soul festival, “disposed off” at the north coast. I can also believe that the boyz saw how NH was nabbed but left her anyhow, lied about it etc.
Checkme: If these guys are innocent, why do they keep changing stories around. If they were together like they say they were, their stories would be alittle more similar.
I think NH’s family knows this will not end well – I got the vibe a couple of weeks ago from NH’s mom she had the feeling NH was dead but wanted to take the body back for burial- NH’s family seems religious and being from the south burial is very important to most southerners. I don’t know I agree about the boys but at this point it is certainly possible.
Good morning guys. I just read a blog that had stated that potential evidence was found in the colony area earlier this month. (teeth indentations on a piece of foam)..Have u all heard anything about this at all?
There was nothing accidental about her death (hopefully still alive). Something was administered to this girl and all the suspects know what happened (especially the father). It is funny that every time you see a clip of the alleged suspects they are all covering their face. If they didn’t have anything to do with Natalee’s disappearance why are they covering their face? You had to laugh when you saw the father running to his car and the reporters asking him why he was running away. He is guilty as hell. The only one who doesn’t cover her face is his mother and she should be the one to cover her face (frightening to say the least). This kid (I can’t even get myself to say his name) is known to be a drunk, gambler and maybe a drug dealer. Every time you see this boy he seems to be gambling and drinking. How does one have so much money at 17 to gamble every day? You can’t be winning at the casino every day the odds are against that scenario. So my question is does he owe any money out to the wrong kind of people? Just another angle to think about. I hope everything turns out for the best especially the Twitty family because they are a class act.
Angela – I don’t really know that stories are changing – are media says that – but no one really in the know says that – with amount of inaccurate information our media is reporting on the case – I believe little of what they say at this point. I think because the arubans say so little they are being highly speculative to have something to talk about and to fuel ratings. The media does not care about finding this girl – they care about their ratings.
Ally – I had not heard that.
They are innocent of harming NH, but are “responsable” because she was in their care. Joran could be easily manipulated to tell some other story than the truth.
CRS, For sure there was a party going on on the beach… Steve could have been in this party. Locals usually party with tourists. There are other witnesses but they may not be on the island.
I think that without a body and barring a confession, the Aruban judge may be froced to release these suspects this comming Saturday. This could be explosive – but his hands may be tied.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/
CRS-go to this site and read under “troubling puzzle”..i never had heard of any of this at all
Is there a statute of limitations for murder in Aruba?
Rob, I don’t believe there is a statute of limitations anyware for murder. I’m unsure if that applies to manslaughter everywhere.
Ally – That is a very interesting article for sure, certainly another valid and resonable explanation of events – I think it is very possible that this case ends with no resolution.
CRS- I agree. Unfortunately, we may have to accept the fact that this case will never be resolved.—that article was very strange though, b/c i had not heard of any of those potential pieces of evidence before today.
Natalee Holloway
Here’s a quick start for today’s information on Natalee Holloway’s disappearance:
Ally – I had not either – it seems it would be simple enough to take the foam and NH’s dental records and try and match it up. It’s not uncommon either to for the dentists to have molds of teeth anymore due to braces and whitening.
i know it would be very easy to obtain the dental records—which is why i think the media or the american public was never told about this (as far as I know)……it is just not making any sense at all.
It will be interesting if the MSM picks it up tonight and we hear more about it. Have you heard or anyone else heard that they may try and extradite the suspects to the US, I heard this last night on fox and I personally can not see this as realistic.
As to why the police and prosecution are so silent on Aruba: First of all, a suspect is innocent until proven guilty and both Dutch and Aruban systems adhere to that. Since most people are already concluding from the scarce information going out who is / not/ guilty, what if they let out more? It’s not to the public to decide who’s guilty, it’s to the judge! Furthermore, contrary to the USA where all suspects info is thrown on the table, the judicial system tries to protect the suspects privacy, in the end there are two possiblibities, either the suspect is NOT guilty -> better nobody knew because it would harm his life.. OR the suspect IS guilty, in that case he gets the punishment and is supposed to rehabilitate back into the comunity. You see, anyway it’s better not to know so much about the suspect. I believe US press is hindering the information flow since all suspect details are spilled. This forces police and OM to keep quiet in stead of giving out info based on anonymous suspects!
As to extradiction, this would be so strange, since if any crime was committed it would be on Aruba. The US peolple are always so keen on prosecuting peolple in states with the death penalty… For that reason (the Kingdom of the Netherlands which includes Aruba signed the human rights treaty which condems the death penalty) alone no extradiction could take place as the suspects would possibly face the death penalty!
Do you know that a lot of Dutch people have many doubts about the juridical system in the United States? We (the Dutch) have a different system. It’s not perfect, but I don’t think it’s bad. Anyway, I think it should be fair to have good knowledge about the Dutch law before you condemn it. And the second thing, about not giving information to us: do you think it should be very smart when they tell everyone what they know? Maybe more people are involved. When you tell everyone what you know, this people know what they can expect, they can change their story, you can’t use that information anymore to confront them (and all that kind of things).
From afar, it is easy to criticize – but how long should Aruba be given before criticism is appropriate?
Attention: If there is anyone from the FBI watching this forum, please check out Courttv.com’s message board for Natalee. There is a thread about her possibly running away in the past and in it is a poster by the name of Lazlo who is stating that he saw someone that fit Natalees description at the Marriott the night before she went missing very upset and trying to get cash from an ATM machine in the lobby. He says he has not reported it to the FBI but stood in line behind her for 20 min. while she repeatedly tried to get the cash and she was really upset and was wearing a bluejean skirt or trousers. Also states that he didn’t think anything of it until the next day when she was reported missing. At that time he told the hotel manager. Someone needs to check into this. Not sure if this is a hoax but needs to be followed up
Michelle- what u stated makes a lot of sense..and i think that u may be right at this point of the investigation. Just so that we can understand this with a little more clarity, is it normal to allow the last three people seen with the victim to go back home and not search their homes for potential evidence? I guess since we are so accustomed to the American judicial system, it just seems ignorant to immediately release the three and promptly arrest the two security guards. Please understand that I am not saying the dutch are ignorant, we are just trying to figure out the logic in their actions. I do undersand that it is more strategic to not release the details of the case so that further “stories” are not collaborated by possible suspects. We just do not understand how the three boys were let go for 9 days.
Tremmor – Why don’t you just call the FBI?
Good point!!
Where would she run away to. I don’t think you could get to far without your passport. If something happened she would have went to her friends for help.
Michelle……the American system would have never been allowed to detain anybody without probable cause and definitely not for eight days without solid evidence. What they’re doing in Aruba is charged guilty before you’re innocent. I think that they’re way tougher than the American system. I don’t think that the Dutch system allows for Tom Messareau and Johnny Cochran style attorneys either, correct?
I wonder too how much better the case would be handled in the US in this situation, everyone keeps saying what a bunch of boobs the arubans are but the longer the case goes the more I think is involved here than a rape gone bad.
I do not think Aruba can afford to have this as unresolved. There is far too much at stake and the media pressure is very high. If they didn’t have anyone in custody it may be a different issue. Everyone in Aruba has stated what a difficult case this is. I don’t see it that way. They have 3 people in custody that know exactly what happened to Natalee. If they didn’t all the changes in stories would not be going on. Also and I have said this for days the Father of JVD is somehow invovled. Rather its trying to cover up and develop an alibi for his son or something more. The difficult issue is the lack of procdures the Arubian Govt seems to have to induce these three to talk. What has not been answered about a lie detector test is if it is simply non admissable in court or if it not allowed at all by Dutch Law. I have not seen a stright answer on that one.
Justin – read the following: http://WWW.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative , pan down and read a troubling puzzle for a different perspective.
look at the Scott Peterson case; they didn’t oficially arrest him until his wife’s body wahsed ashore. It’s very sad but without physical evidence it’s difficult to establish a cause of death, potential motive and opportunity.
Agreed on the body in this case – without it – the prosecuation has a problem.
tremmor,
did you also know she was spotted in one of the cities and when someone called her name she ran away from them. Also this story about her running away before was said once before and it is all bogus she has not run away from home before. With any kind of logic its a stupid comment. Not you but the person who said this in the past. She is 18 all she has to do is walk out the door at home and leave. I think rather still it was just someone who wanted to write something on the blog to get a reaction.
they didn’t arrest him but they had him under surveillance from Day 1..and remember they had his phone tapped, and his online accounts monitored….
Tremmor,
Anther point, If that were true she would of been on video at the ATM machine and at the front of the Marriott as they have security cameras outside as well…
Lately on then news I heard all the cameras dismissed, that maybe there were one or two but there line of sight was limited.
Scared Monkeys Media Alert …
BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND …
Tom will be appearing on the Andy Thomas Show again today at 3 pm EDT.
Andy Thomas’s show is heard throughout the Carolinas on WOIC 1230 AM, and also on the internet.
Listen to it here on the internet, The Andy Thomas Show
They will be further discussing the Natalee Holloway story and how blogging has interacted with it.
Red
I have a question. I know Natalee had two roomates at the Holiday Inn. Were either of those roomates at C&C’s that night? If Natalee said she was going back to her room shouldn’t they have been worried when she was there when they got in later?
Tom,
I am sooooo sorry! (I have too many windows open.) I have both your site and his open all day and depend on you for information. You SHOULD be proud and thank you for all your time and effort.
Trina – they probably just assumed she was with another group of friends – remember this was there last night there – i would not of slept that night – that is what the plane ride back is for.
I guess you’re right
It just doesn’t add up. If she wanted to stay up all night she would have stayed with the group when they (i believe) went to another club. It sounds like she was ready to call it a night. I read somewhere than C&C said Sunday nights are really slow. Unless she did have a thing for Joran and they rest of the group had enough of him so she had to choose between Joran and the group.
I think many people are asking why they didn’t accept help from the U.S. in the beginning of this case. Aruba’s police force cannot be that big and in a case as big as this has become they should have shown that they were doing everything possible to solve this crime and that includes accepting additional help. I know that people are saying the the FBI is involved but they have no jurisdiction in this matter. Showing that you could work together and use every resource avaible (especially from the technical and scientific standpoint) would have made people more comfortable. It is the suspects in this case that are making the police look foolish and for the most part I would want justice not only for Natalee Holloway but for the people in Aruba who are being critized for what has happened.
Crs,
I read it. Nothing new it as far as I see. How about this. JVD buys her a drink at the end of the night. Slips in a roofie. Has it set up that his buddies are going to pick him up front and get her to go with them. They drive to the light house 20 25 min drive. JVD is in the back with her and putting the moves on her. By the time they hit the Lighthouse she has passed out. Why would 3 guys take one girl to the light house and no one get out of the car? And better yet a girl who is by all accounts somewhat shy and NOT a ho! get it on in front of 2 other guys. NOT likely. Perhaps she comes too enough to realize what is going on and begins to fight them. They hurt her and or give her more drugs which in turn she now O/D’s and then they call his buddy Steve. Who loves water sports. Which also means he knows the currents. He is also it appears to be an EMT. Has access to a boat. ETC..ETC. All that is possible but unfortunately we don’t don’t know. Maybe we never will know. I hope & pray for Natalee and her family that is not the case.
I think she liked and him and of course he wanted to get her away from the friends to make a move on her. I am sure he was like, its your last night, let me show you this lighthouse.
San,
Well said! Ultimately I would hope that the people of Aruba are not the ones really being attacted. Their police force is and honestly I think with very good reason. It is much like how many foregin people hate the us govt and its polices. But not necessarily the people of the US .. ah excluding a select few that we all know that is….
I hope the authorities are able to put it all together for the family’s sake.
San- it takes 48 hours or more for most adults to be considered missing. Although the FBI has more experience they’re still strangers in a strange land; they don’t know the land, laws, culture, etc. The FBI is well aware that if a foreign law enforcement agency begins asking question they might get the cold shoulder from the detainees. As far as forensic assistance is concerned, absolutely, second to none.
I guess what is frustrating is it appears little is being accomplished but it is totally possible the arubans are also putting it all together.
After this weekend – do more of you think Joran’s dad is involved?
crs,
did you happen to catch the interview with the guy from the Diario? He said that Natalee was a live and being held by drug dealers. That they had tried to get her off the island three times and had failed. They were moving her house to house and the plan was to take her to Venzul and then transport her via car to Columbia. This was from the editor of the Diario on Fox news Saturday night. He said they were doing their own investagation and this is what they ahd come up with and that they had informed the police. But who knows may the guy is nuts too…
Anybody know what the prison is like in Aruba, since there is not much crime in aruba you would think the prison would be about empty.
I,m for sticking Joran, and the Kalpoe brothers one at a time in prison in the same cell with Bubba the butt bandit, Maybee they will talk.
Justin, that would be crazy…but I got a vibe watching fox on last Thursday night that the locals really believe she is alive so I would not be shocked if this plays out and she is found alive – I think that is where the 4th suspect comes in – maybe he was to be the courier.
Has anyone reported what Natalee was last wearing? Was it the blue/green top and denim skirt from the photo we have seen on the posters? Finding any kind of clothing similar to what she was wearing could also help in finding clues.
Also, if Joran has previously been described in earlier blogs to participate in S&M with women, has anyone ever thought possibly of accidental assphyxiation? Then he sought the help of the Kalpoes and other friends to help him out after the fact?
I’m not sure where some of you are getting your information. The FBI does have jurisdiction when an American citizen is involved (think of the USS Cole, FBI was in Yemen within 24 hours and actually ran the investigation). But this is investigative jurisdiction, not geographic jurisdiction. In other words, the FBI can conduct it’s investigation but may not have geographic jurisdiction to effect an arrest or detention. What appears to be happening is that the FBI is involved to assist the authorities in Aruba, but may not be heading the investigation. This would make sense–let the authorities with geographic jurisdiction lead the investigation–FBI provides whatever they need. Unfortunately, a missing teen on an island is not quite the same as terrorists blowing up a boat–so the FBI itself may not be using all of it’s resources on this case.
Second misconception here is that the US requires a body to charge someone with homicide—incorrect—they send it to a Grand Jury who can make that decision without a body. Look at the case of Lori Hacking–husband was arrested and charged before the body was found based on evidence. Now–getting a CONVICTION without a body requires a really good prosecutor–but to charge the suspect, only evidence of a homicide is needed.
What I’m confused about is how it can be said that Aruba’s law assumes guilt, but then the judge will free someone is the public assumes guilt??????
The conspiracy about her withdrawing money from the ATM the night she dissapeared can be quickly verified by checking the bank account records and any video cameras at the ATM.
Anyone know if prostitutes on Aruba are independent or do most work for someone else? organized crime? pimp?Joran? Sloot family?
David, the FBI does not have jurisdiction anywhere outside the USA as far as the nations is concerned. It’s the US government that does “allow” them to act outside the US in certain cases.
As far as Aruban (Dutch) law is concerned, guilt is not assumed, however, anyone can be detained if that is needed for the investigation of a crime. The later is to be verified by a judge periodically. Hence, a suspect can be helt if that is required to guarantee the quality of the investigation, to safeguard public interest or the suspect is likely to flee.
The public is not supposed to know the suspects, the police and justice department should respect the suspects privacy in order to avoid “conviction by the public”, as is feared for the two security guards released earlier, e.g. imagine how hard it will be for them to get a job now.
David- the FBI investigated the USS Cole which is part of sovereign U.S. domain and part of our armed forces, regardless of geographical location. If someone commits a violent act against a U.S. soldier(random murder, stabbing) in lets say Uruguay, then the U.S. needs to act permission to participate in the investigation. If permission is denieid then an invasion is the only option.
I’m not saying that you’re wrong or anything but if the FBI gets involved with one missing persons case abroad then everybody will start writing their senators and congressman to start helping out with crimes commited against Americans overseas. Tha’s the last thing the U.S. wants to get involved in.
That would be salacious if Joran and Daddy were pimps!!
On CNN this morning a friend of Joran’s ( a girl) said that she does not believe that he is capable of harming NH, because he is very protective of girls.
If he were so protective he would have atleast walked her to the frontdesk of her hotel and then go home.
I found it very strange that more of his buddies and friends have not come forward in his defense (since he’s such a great guy). But then I can understand if no one wants to be associated with him, seeing the mess he’s in.
Just heard on the radio (unconfirmed) they arrested some one else with the initial A.
Teh v/d Sloot family being involved in the prostitution trade is unlikely, first of all the girls are virtually always free to do as they please, secondly, the busisness is mainly in hands of Colombian and Chinese “businessmen” (and a handfull Surinamese…)
CRS,
I find it very strange that the 2 pieces of “evidence” that they found at the north coast (security t-shirt, cleanser and piece styro with teeth marks), were immedeately deemed “not related” to this case. It was the day I took a day off work and joined hundreds of Arubans to go and look for her. This evidence was found near an old bunker. Now I hear that this has to do with the case…
Arubans should go down and beat the truth out of the father.
Without someone heading off to the pokey, innocent or not, tourism goes down and everyone suffers.
Where is the mob? Is life so good and so laid back down there that noone cares whether they have jobs or not?
Maybe Americans are not a significant % of tourism there?
For the love of the average Aruban, lynch a couple of folks!
Katcall,
It was songs that had lyrics in them about S&M and one picture of him with a guy friend with a belt around his neck. I don’t think there has been anything regarding him specifically. The rest was blog chatter….
Crs,
My mouth fell open when he blurted that out. What is amazing is its just been dropped. You would of thought Fox wold of followed up on it. Then again who knows.
Crs, there is an unconfirmed report of another arrest of a certain “A”, related to this case.
Did anyone watch Fox last p.m. and see the interview with the atty. from Aruba on the Split screen with the female American FBI profiler? They spoke about apersons body that had been found decapitated in a cemetary in Aruba, then a refernce was made that said the head of the body was found.The spokesperson from Aruba said that it was an unfortunate coincidence. Does anyone know when this was found and was it the head of a male or female, or was it the body. It seems that his could be a warning to others not to talk, making an example out of someone. Does anyone have any information?
Thanks Alabamamom
Jerry– Prostitutes in Aruba need to obtain a permit that is only granted for three months, after which they have to go back to Colombia. They don’t work for a pimp but pay a bar(brothel) a fee for residing there. Each bar only allows for about three to five girls. These girls are not forced into prostitution but Colombia is so dirt poor that they stand in line to come to Aruba to work.
trina,
it has been said several times that all the girls were staying in each others rooms falling asleep. so it was not unusal to not make it back to the room. It was also mentioned that a lot of them were up until 5am that night
Checkme – That’s very interesting – maybe it is all starting to come together – keep me informed.
a certain” A” as in Aruban? Like JVD’s dad which wouldn’t surprise me at all
Frances
The person found was a male. it appears he may have been killed in his home and the body was carried to the cemetary. According to the news bulletin when the wife came home from work there was blood in the house. I don’t believe it is NH related.
Have we heard anything about links to the Soul festival guests that were staying in the Holiday inn also and were proly flying out on the same flight the next day as NH was supposed to. Why is this posibility ruled out?
I heard from the radio that JvdS has shutdown. He has been continiously interogated for more than 10 days, hours on end and obviously has blocked-up.
Checkme
Ofcourse JvdS is going to shut down, his father probably told him to keep his mouth shut.
If JvDS has shutdown…..next is to CRACK UP and spill the guts! One extreme to the other is not uncommon! As I said last week, the human psyche is not made to handle so much pressure before one explodes mentally. Our patience and prayers are needed. It’s our patience that are truly wearing thin though.
frances,
yes a body was found. The story has changed a bit.” No surprise there” the last story I saw was with regard to it being involved with some drug dealers (which by the way does not exist in Aruba). The next stroy said it was a former guard from the Prison.
As far as a warning. Funny you mention that as I had said eariler. The editor from the Diario newspaper was on fox and made the comment about Natalee being held by a drug group moved around. WHich I thought what an idiot if that was true he just fired his informant. Then within 24 hrs a guy ends up dead. No idea if there is a tie but found it interesting.
This is to Checkme:
About the evidence that was found on the north coast, was it on the calm side or the other side of the island that is very rough and made up of lava with the formation of caves and natural bridges? Was it near the lighthouse or Marriott….the evidence and the bunkers? Just wondering. I live 45 mins away from Natalee’s home and have been following this case since it was first seen on the news. I am very concerned.
Thanks, Alabamamom
Checkme….BINGO!!!!! Excellent observation. Some pervert staying at her hotel could have been checking her out and did his thing and left the next day. Too many tourists come and go on that island!
Checkme,
highly unlikely if that was the case the story of the three would not be changing every other hour.They have something to hide it is obvious. She never made it back to the Hotel.
checkme,
Why is that the Aruba police wants to give a lie detector to NH’s family and not to the “criminals” themselves?
Do you believe that’s fair? Doesn’t it sound fishy to you?
It does to me…
Alabamamom,
First off, my warmest greetings to you, we are connected through this terrible tale. Only HP know the full answer to our questions.
The items were found about 2 miles NW from the KIA prison complex. These are old WWII bunkers. This is on the rugged north end side of the island, very near San Nicolas, the twon in which the 2 security guards lived.
If there is any more information that you wish me to give you please ask.
Justin I agree. NH’s family is also tired of all the lies too. We all know the lies are hindering a TRUE resolution in this case. One lie begets another lie and another. Piecing it all together is what is taking so long to solve.
I am also wondering why we are not hearing anything about the Kalpoe brothers’ family? Silence from certain parties would raise flags I would think.
Justin,
NH’s parents or other locals should watch around the island for boats living the area. Maybe they see natalee.I know it’s hard, but the island is not that big.
Not fair at all. But be careful, the “cop” is an “ex-cop”. He has had his brushes with political scandals and for sure has a chip on his shoulder. Please do not confuse him with the public prosecution office or the police department. I can only guess about his motivations. But then again, he could have been asked to come with this topic (by the local authorities or some political party) because they do not have the guts to do so. Whatever, I think it is a very poor public stunt to deveate the attention towards the NH family. Why not call in NH’s mom for questioning, like they did with JvdS father? What would be the problem there?
If the Betty Holloway is so tired of lies, she should first stop telleing them herself! (Natalee is not the Angel she depicts according to NH father!)
About the lie detectors, they are not acceptable form of investigation since outcome can be manipuled or simply false. Using it against suspects could harm the case for not following procedures.
Hi,
Anyone think that maybe this whole thing is MUCH bigger than anyone first thought? Like maybe joran or his dad had some sort of debt related to drugs/gambling and therefore had to get involved with sex trafficking… which would explain the lack of forensic evidence because she is alive and long gone by now. But maybe the aruban police has been threatened from the big wigs running the whole thing and are now just going through the motions of an investigation. I’m guessing there is a level of illegal activity in aruba that is unspoken and doesn’t usually cross over into the lives of “normal” people but that some of the higher up people in the government may know of it and turn a blind eye to it or even be involved with it. So maybe joran’s dad is mixed up and no one is talking because the people higher up in the sex/drug traficking ring are only 15 miles away in Venezuela and/or Colombia. (tell me, is it normal for decapitated bodies to show up there ??) If this is the case we will probably never know what happened to Natalee since everyone knows no one wants to be the one to rat out the head of a violent drug ring.
Anyway, if this is the case and the Aruban government and law enforcement is either somewhat corrupt or scared themselves, it would explain why the investigation seems to be poorly organized and just kind of trailing along and why there are so many people involved. Like maybe they don’t really WANT to know what happened. It just seems like if Joran did something to NH, it would be cut and dry and the Aruban government would be happy to wrap the case up, blame it on the bad rich kid, and move on and keep the tourists happy.
AnnapolisArubaFan Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 2:34 pm
Sol Rosenberg Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 11:50 am
Annapolis – My quotes from Natalee’s step dad were directly from his interview on FOX last night at 10:00 PM EST. He said that van der sloot’s dad was an “obnoxious” “scum-bag” and that, based on their conversation, he knew with confidence that Sloot Sr. knows what went down that night. I didn’t make any of that up, and I’m sure FOX will air this again today.
Thanks, Sol. At least someone in the family realizes that the investigation was blown as soon as little boy Sloot got to consult with daddy-counsel. Good points, all. And here’s one more thing to chew on— why hasn’t Aruba’s official reward gone to $1million? That is the kind of cash that might move things forward…finally.
Checkme, thanks for your contributions. It’s good to get the locals’ perspective (I’ve inferred that you live in Aruba). To respond to what you said earlier than the 3 boys (or at least Juron) did not actually physically harm her (but may have created a situation leading to her harm), why don’t they just tell the truth? Is’nt if better to face prosecution for a lesser crime than for murder? is the mafia or organized crime in Aruba so strong that locals don’t speak up if they see a crime?
I’m a guy who believes that the simplest theory is most often the most accurate theory (and therefore think the brothers physically hurt and disposed of her), but what exactly did the elder Kalpoe brother mean when he told one of the arrested guards in jail (John) that “they made up the story about the guards and apologized for getting them involved…that they dropped NH off w/ Juron, and most importantly, that something bad happened to her but that she would probably turn up in a crackhouse or bar in a couple days.” That still troubles me—does it mean that they know Juron was going to harm her or that they left her on the streets after she overdosed (she was’nt dead but figured she’d be passed out for a few days).
It is glaringly obvious that these guys have lied. The stories are not the same. I also saw an interview with Natalee’s mom where she stated she had “camped out” on Vander Sloots lawn when she 1st arrived in Aruba so that she could talk to Joran. The folks from Alabama were the ones who did the legwork and came up with VanderSloot and the 2 brothers.That is why Natalee’s mom so desperately wanted to speak with Joran. He was the last known person to have left with Natalee from the bar, and this mom was desperate for answers. In her interview , Beth Holloway Twitty stated that she was “less than impressed” with Joran. She said that he did approach her and as a direct quote”he did approach me.His atitude was very condescending,very arrogant.Seemed to be somewhat powerful and there were very limited communicative exchanges.” If a nice young honor student(Joran) knew that he was the last person to see a missing girl , if innocent why was he not offering his help to Natalee’s mom , to the authorities the local police? Why was he not out helping to search.Why now after his father has been questioned by the police does he run away from the cameras?
Alabamamom
All of those that feel the need to trash NH, stop, this is not about NH’s character.
0. Yes I live in AUA
1. we have no facts
2. I too thought that the bros were more into this and may have harmed NH
3. mostly because I consider JvdS a harmless big 17-year old overprotected kid
4. but have always felt that the presence of a large group of tourists, here for the soul festival (not our “normal group” of tourists) looking getting drunk and loud and frankly dangerous, was a formula for trouble.
5. if NH was left to walk back to her hotel on the beach side of the hotels, she will definitely encounter a partying group of men and she would have no chance.
6. it will be very difficult for aruban authoirities to even imply that US citizens could have committed a crime related to NH.
It is very obvious to me that there is so much trash on the internet that maybe they made a movie or took pictures and have a website or use a website to post their exploits but in this case its was to hot. For example Captain Stabbin and Bang Boat are a couple of degrading websites to women.
Joran did help with the search, did come out and wanted to talk to NH’s mom, but the situation is so messed up and the american around NH’s mom are (of course) so full of emotion it is not fair to expect a open conversation. Cultural differences between the Dutch and Americans are huge, and these show even more when deep emotions are involved.
Checkme – All excellent points.
francis: I recall Juran’s mother mentioned in an interview recently that Juran wanted to help but was advised not to get involved any further. She did not mention who advised him tho, his father? his lawyer? he supposedly did consult with a lawyer at his home (poolside) prior to being taken into custody…
CRS I agree. This is not about trashing NH…. this forum is about reason and answers we all seek. I as a parent would be out of my mind looking for answers too if it was my child.
Natalee’s stepfather called PVanderSloot a slimeball , which here in the south is worse than a scum bag. If my daughter were missing I would call an adult who had a child connected with my daughter’s disapperance who was refusing to help and avoiding the family ,not helping search …. I would call hime Much More and Much Worse than a slimeball.
We service 500,000-600,000 tourists each year, with a total population of 100,000, at this volume since 1990. That is more than 7,5 million guests!!! We have had virually no crimes committed to our guests. We are well trained in preventing crime but don’t look very well in the media’s camera lights. That does not mean we are not doing good investigative work and will have the Truth come out and the guilty punished.
I am positive the parents of JvDS KNOW what went on when he got home that night or morning. They have some idea of the specifics regarding time he arrived home, their son’s demeanor, ie…anxious, nervous, pacing the floor, even chain smoking, binge drinking simply from trying to get a story lined up for authorities. The Kalpoe bros were alleged to have met with JvDS at his house days after NH came up missing.
Alabamamom,
Why would you call Paul van der Sloot a slimeball? Would this bring Nataly back? Do you have any idea what the Truth is? Don’t you think everybody, including Paul and the rest of Aruba wants to know this? Isn’t this the purpose of our communication? Calling people names only reflects your own frustration in a childish manner. Let’s show the world how humans are able to handle thinkgs without throwing names and bombs around.
checkme:
one question, if I as a tourist in aruba break a traffic law or other basic law and get caught. Can I pay the police officer on the spot to satisfy my fine as is commonly done in mexico?
I and many others have no ill feelings toward “Arubans” but I’m questioning whether the justices and police officers are open to bribes. with so much importing and exporting of questionable port content. many are sold on the fact laws can be purchased there. That is a huge difference from the US.
i still think those 2 blacks did it.
you service 1.4M last year
“We service 500,000-600,000 tourists each year”
going forward, that is likely to be the number
“with a total population of 100,000″
I’m guessing with the tourism dropoff, many will have to leave…est population 70,000, but higher unemployment, less affluence
Checkme, thanks for the response. I don’t know these kids so can’t say whether they’re harmless or not, but do know that it’s only human nature that those w/ power tend to abuse it and take advantage of it. It looks like Juron has more power than the 2 brothers in Aruba, so if he really was not involved (and the brothers were), he could easily blame them and run for protection and no one would care to defend the Suranemese kids.
A response to other posters, just b/c Juron’s dad runs away from cameras does not mean he’s guilty (although I agree he may be a slime bag or douche bag). If you and your family was being blamed for something and had cameras in your face, you may run in order not to get portrayed negatively. On the other hand, I believe that if you’re truly innocent, you will scream to the world that you are, and not hide.
Also, as someone earlier said, these 3 kids are not al qaeda jihadists who can remain silent until death — these are kids who can be cracked.
On a different note, are there local women who’ve had affairs w/ Juron who can attest to his innocence or at least his non-violent nature?
Sherbob – are you 90 and from Mississippi?
I live on Aruba and I wouldn’t try to bribe a police officer, he’d get me in for trying to bribe him!
I do think police here is a bit more “flexible” with tourists, which means, they might get out of a ticket easier then I would.
The oddest thing to me is they let the three kids go right off the bat at first, and picked up the two security guards on their say so. They had no problem searching the guards homes right away, but with VDS they said they could not go in like “cowboys” so they waited. I have no idea what the outcome of this will be there seems to be alot of speculation and tap dancing when it comes to giving straight answers. I am sure Aruba is a great place and one should not judge the running judicial systembecause it differs from ours. (USA) But after weeks of getting no where fast it may behoove everyone involved if Aruba let the FBI lend more of a hand in investigating.
Leave your ego at the door.
no sir-ee bob,
from montana here
Veritas
I’m guessing with the tourism dropoff, many will have to leave…est population 70,000, but higher unemployment, less affluence
I am not from Aruba but I don’t think so
I simply understand that in the situation as a parent if another parent of a child, the last person to have seen my daughter alive were not doing everything possible to assist and help me find my child in a foriegn country, that I would be frustrated.
We are now approaching the 4h week and I did not call PaulVdS a slimeball….
someone quoted Natalee’s stepfather as calling him a scum bag…. the clip I saw he called him a slimeball. I am frustrated with this , I am very saddened , and I am not name calling. I do not intend to anger anyone or show disrespect.
thanks geme for the answer
yes the “me tourista no understand” works very well everywhere
time will tell
people want to be taken care of when something bad happens
the Aruban govt, PR, police, prosecutors have mangled this event
I’d personally pay 2x the price to go nearby,where I may have no assurance things will be better, but I know 4 sure what I’d get in Aruba
Sherbob:
Montana huh…….now how many blacks live in MONTANA? You have a twisted way of thinking and if you must know something…..this is EXACTLY WHY all three current suspects blamed TWO BLACK security guards in the beginning because of racial bias’ formed when a beautiful blond is at question. Guess what…..this is WHY they were arrested too because JvDS and the Kalpoes conveniently described the guards to stave off suspicion on them. The guards alibis DID indeed check out and this is why the are no longer in custody.
crs
In your question to sherob, I was wondering the same thing.
Aruba = Michael Jackson
it will take $M to repair the damage done by that moron ex-cop on Fox the other night, its not so much what he wanted to get done, its how he presented those ideas….many many many more $M will be required to repair what the PM, etc etc have done… revealing blood in the car evidence on live TV with the family effectively on splitscreen
money will only be effective once the pm is replaced, they hire new firms, couple years have passed….
I think that the Illuminati secret society is behind this. The same organization that’s behind the scheme to put the pyramid and eye on the dollar bill
actually observer it seems like some Al Queda jihadists have cracked sooner than these kids, LOL, they didn’t have judicial officials for Daddies advising them on what story to tell and stick to…….
I’ve been frankly stunned at the supposed information some of the biggest guns like Abu Zubaydah and Binalshibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammad fessed up to
clearly no code of silence in Al Queda like the old Sicilian Mafia
the code of silence doesn’t even exist in the Mafia anymore, not to the same extent, people will sing if they can save their butts……..
just some free advice… find hardest cop you have on the island, let him watch every episode of 24 from start to finish and let him lose on those kids
part of leadership is about being able to sacrifice the elitist societal “rights” we have all come to expect when the benefits of doing so are clear and it is the morally righteous thing to do… finding an answer and not putting anyone in jail would be acceptable… but there is no urgency only moral equivocation … either you uphold the individual “rights” of these 3 who likely committed some sort of heinous act, or everyone on the island suffers… it is that simple…you are not likely to have both here
that time has come for Aruba and where is the leadership and urgency?
Down with the Queen! Off with her head!
The boys ARE NOT telling the truth BECAUSE DADDY IS MORE INVOLVED than we can ever imagine! Just think, the DAD knows the ins and outs of the judicial system. He also knows his son WILL Be RELEASED! At this point I feel it is in the absolute best interest for the Kalpoe brothers to lay it all on the table and receive lesser charges to help get a conviction.
polygraphs, what is the reliability as a percentage, statistically
they say psychopaths can pass because they have no conscience so they don’t exhibit any of the signs of stress when lying
delusional people can believe their own lies after a point
and an innocent person who is upset can fail, for example like the father whose daughter went missing, he was upset when he took the polygraph, he had just found out his daughter was missing and he didn’t do well on the polygraph but he offered to take another etc and turned out it was the exwife’s creepy boyfriend who did the girl in…..
I’d rather see a correct and slow process than an fast dirty solucion. I feel the person in charge with this case (vd Straten) feels the same way. Maybe this is a cultural issue, are americans so impatient?
Veritas, are you suggesting that there’s a sentiment among locals that they need to protect their own and that they’ll deal with their internal problems (possible killing by their natives of a foreigner) themselves in their own way – i.e. protect the kids but punish them in a different way?
“Down with the Queen! Off with her head! ”
Exactly… replace her with the chamer of commerce guy… he can improve as an actor… but at least he seemed to know what he should be doing
this will get much worse before it gets better
if Aruba doesn’t solve it… I predict a family member ends up in Aruban jail
lay down your bets!
We are not talking about waiting for dinner here. This is a mother and father’s daughter you are talking about. If this was one of your loved ones wouldn’t you be a tad impatient?
FYI, VDS is not considered a “local”!
I understand the feeling of the parents of NH, and I respect that. I’m more refering to all the others that are not directly involved. And a policeforce has to consider the good of all, not just the family of the victim (is there is a victim!)
Gemebwai:
Do you know Joran, his family or the Kalpoe’s.
None of them directly
“Veritas, are you suggesting that there’s a sentiment among locals that they need to protect their own and that they’ll deal with their internal problems (possible killing by their natives of a foreigner) themselves in their own way – i.e. protect the kids but punish them in a different way? ”
not at all… i am suggesting simply that there is a lot of damage that will be done to the economy of Aruba (an I am sure there are alot of very decent hardworking people who will suffer) because of this (actions of a few individuals) and they (Aruban people/leadership) need to get their act together and act with moral courage and fortitude to resolve the situation… this situation will get much worse before it gets better… I think Aruba 2 years from now will be a changed place if they stay on the same course
How do you all know what the boys have or have not said and if they are or are not close to solving the case? I sure don’t know, it has been clearly stated in several places that they do not share the information they have before the trial.
“And a policeforce has to consider the good of all, not just the family of the victim (is there is a ”
how bout all those day labourers who are very dependent on the tourism trade… they will go hungry and likely have to move
but you would prefer these three keep their dignity and their right to keep quiet
I recently read an interview a friend of Joran’s did with Riehl World. She stated that Joran’s last girlfriend had long blonde hair, and blue eyes and was very pretty. Many of the guys at school wanted her but Joran won her heart. She later broke up with him for another guy. Joran tried getter her back but failed at that attempt.
Just maybe Joran hooked up with NH because she reminded him of the girl that broke his heart. He did describe himself on his website as a “broken hearted lover boy”. I have to wonder if he lost it mentally that night.
Kat – That could be for sure.
good point scc – I think this whole thing is getting to the point where less is more
The Holiday Inn, Carlos & Charlies, Tatoo, casino, SoulFest, and other tourist entities involved in this case have been awfully quiet since the first few days….can’t believe not one insider is dishing…… makes you think that there is some serious concern about retribution if true facts come out…. moreover, nothing would get this case off suqare one like a hefty reqrd, and yet no one’s talking about it, no one’s ante-ing up.
strange stuff
Regarding the tourist-in-car-making-mistake-in-traffic…
All tourist cars are marked with a “V” on the licence plate. Something they abolished in the States a long time ago, (Just never became an issue here) so that all cars with this licence plate are watched carefully as they may make traffic-errors. It is unheard of giving a tourist a ticket. Tourists basically are free to (mis)behave as they please. The Arubans keep smiling.
“Your comment is awaiting moderation” ????
“hefty reqrd” whoops, bad typing meant reward
Moderation – Usually Tom or Red needs to talk to you about something.
When one(ussually female) goes missing in the US, american authorities immediately ask very pertinenet questions as to who, when, where, what & why etc. Since I am married to a cop, one main area cops go to next is the register of recently released sexual offenders as merely possible suspects.
For THOSE THAT LIVE IN ARUBA: IS there such a register in there? I was just wondering if you have this type of database in place to help with missing persons crimes?
Joran and his family are NOT very well liked to my understanding; they’re from Holland and have only been on the island for a couple of years. Some local Arubans harbor resentments against these Dutch elitists trying to take over their jobs.
Conspiracy in Aruba???? You bet!!!! Conspiracy to get the Dutch non-natives nailed to the cross!!!! get your facts straight poeple!
Annapolis:
Are your from MD? Love that area.
crs Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 3:53 pm
Moderation – Usually Tom or Red needs to talk to you about something.
thanks, crs; likely my hideous typos
Gees -you guys here this? apparently well known fact on aruban blogs (from riehl)
“Claire,
From the interrogations made on the four in jail. The polis know she was drugged by the drugs from Steve, they know she died of an overdose, & they know Joran and two brothers raped her. What hasn’t been clarified or really leaked out is where the body is or what happened to the body.
Posted by: islandboy | June 20, 2005 03:50 PM”
Also Aruban newspaper reports one of guys held is very depressed and tried to take his own life..
Probably a good detective knows all these names by heart, there are only a few (serious!). Besides, every inspector and detective can search and access previous record in a database taht contains all types of crimes.
Every news story I heard said That Joran has been in the Aruban school for 10 years.
Claire – gives these blogs names.
yeah will ask-check discussion on riehl
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/natalee_hollowa_32.html
This message is for the people who are in Aruba now and want to help.
I am phsyhic and previously I was able to figure some things out.I had a dream about Natalee and I thing I am able to give an interpretiation to my dream now that I read so much about her.
I think she is still on the island and also according to the editor from the El Diaro newspaper, there were 3 attempts to remove Nalalee from Aruba and 2 attempts according to my dream.One place where she possible might be is on the North West part of the island where the edge is straight.
Here is a link of the map : http://www.aruba-tours.com/info/places.html
In my dream it showed whre the numbers 1 and 21 are.
The second possibil location could be somewhere where there are animals (in my dream there were horses) but not necssary. Those horses were coming down on a road with white little rocks. I posted this before , but now I have a better undestanding of my dream.Maybe it’s worth of something.
Please, people who are in Aruba, try to contact others who are helping and search those locations.I have never been to Aruba, so I can’t really tell you more about those location.
Claire– If you dump a body in off the shore near the lighthouse(Arashi), the currents will take it out to sea in a short period of time. The north east trade winds and currents will have a body between Aruba and Colombia in about two days.
10 years on Aruba is still considered an outsider. BTW, the chief in charge is also from Holland and considered an outsider. But, most unlikely he would do VDS a favour beyond the legal, this man is so correct and would never risk his pension (which is due is 2 weeks!). Also, he (the polcie chief) is the menice of the Minister of Justice and knows they would go to length to discredit him if given the opportunity.
Cancon:
Regarding the polygraphs. Yes, it is true that crazed people can sometime pass them. However, regarding your comment about innocent people can fail them if they are nervous, I was a Chicago police detective for more years than I will admit to on this site, but can tell you the chance of an innocent person failing are very close to zero. We account for things like that. If they are nervous, it will show up in their baseline, that is when we ask them questions such as what color is the chair that you are sitting in. Also, if the reactions aren’t consistent and strong, we would disregard it. Only the strong changes were considered as truly positives. I have even taken a few tests myself and know how accurate they are. Believe me, if these guys would take a polygraph, alot of questions would be answered and the police could zero on where to search, whether or not Natalee is still alive, etc.
True, these guys could refuse one, but I would give them the chance. If I were innocent and rotting in jail right now and some officer offered me a chance to take a polygraph with the understanding I would be released if I passed, I would jump at the chance. Their refusal would tell me they are lieing and the only reason to lie at this point is if you know something.
Claire,
Are you talking about the post from Island Boy. I don’t think there is anyway they would “know” this information. Nothing has been released so I think once again its back to speculation about what has happened to her. It may be very accurate I am sad to say but still speculation.
Yeah but sounds like Arubans know a lot more than we do-they know someone who knows someone
Did you all see this site ????? http://www.tohellwitharuba.com/
This is unacceptable…..
AMAZING that there is this notion that the Aruban police etc. are not doing all that they can do. Please look at the case of the missing Idaho children and stop throwing bricks when you are living in a glass house. Really you all and the media should be harrassing the police in Idaho more. These children are much younger than Natalee and are truly KNOWN to be kidnapped.
Claire,
maybe but I also know your dealing with a small town. I lived in a small town for a long time and I slept with girls that I didn’t know exsisted according to the town tales. Just as an example… small town gossip can be brutal
I agree with Claire – I seem to believe the posters a lot more than I do the MSM on this case.
Livid Lady,
agreed… that is dispecable!
That jerk is disrespecting the flag and everything. I think Aruba should sue..
crs,
I am not necessarily disagreeing with Claire, only pointing out that rumors are running wild on the island. So you have to take that into consideration when you evaluate what they say. I tend to believe that is what happened to Natalee. But I just havent brought myself to admit it yet
Funny that the pic of the guy with the lady is not from Aruba at all, but I think it is taken in our neighbor island Curacao… This site comes from the Matthews… another story. Funny how wild people draw media attention just for the attention but Truth always comes out on Aruba. Good people recognize good from evil. Bad will also.
I hope whoever put up that site does not make two cents.
Justin – I agree literally everything out there is more or less specualtion at this point.
We don’t sue. We believe in ourselves that our guests love our island and we take care of them while they are here. Where else exists such a high level of recurring customers? I am sure those customers understand the problems of societies and their crimes, even the different justice systems…
KDM,
I think the Arubian police took it on the chin because of the beginning of this investigation. Which they botched up. In particular if all the other stories about Joran and his anger issues are true. There was a really good point about Joran’s dad saying he was in the casino the night they went to the house only to find out later he was “back” home with one of the brothers. If he was at the casino their should be video of him being there. Dad is involved in covering for him I have no doubt.
KatCall…I wondered the same thing when I saw the description Joran’s ex-girlfriend. Scary to think he would take it out on Natalee.
If the aruban authorities came out as this being an accident – at this point would anyone believe it?
At least we would know what happened…
Checkme,
Your island is a wonderful place. The people are graceous, kind and helpful in all ways. In the end Aruba will be fine. Perhap’s if Natalee is dead I only hope that something meaning ful can come from all this. Even if she is not dead and as also is speculated being held against her will that actions will be taken to improve things. I think the frustration and anger you hear right now has been miss place on the people of Aruba. The police did screw up in the begining. By all accounts. Believe the police screw up hear all the time. People forget that.
They would have to give the timeline, all the events, why they think what they think and then the public would have to draw the same conclusion.
I agree with the entry that stated that NH was drugged. I think this is how they first got a very intelligent girl to do something so dangerous as to leave by herself with 3 men she barely knew. Since they hadn’t found the body, I was thinking that somehow it was diposed of in the ocean. I wondered how these boys would do this since nothing was said about them having a boat…then the party boat DJ was arrested…
I just wish they could find Natalee, one way or the other, so that her parents can take her home. She is on or near that island somewhere and the three guys arrested know more than they are telling. I just hope and pray they will do that right thing and help Natalee to leave Aruba and go home with her family.
Mark 2—you’re making a good point about the polygraphs, however, you and I both know that it is easy to fool the baseline questions. That is all you have to do with a polygraph; if the baseline questions are not consistent then the whole test is inconclusive.
Crs,
Accidental O/D by forced or unkown ingestion. Because I don’t think they set out to kill her. I do think they set out to harm her. IE: Rape her.
I consider myself pretty intelligent and so do those around me. But I have done some very stupid things that could have gotten me hurt or killed. I have just been very lucky. At 18, I felt nothing could hurt me. Especially not right after graduating from high school. I am not saying anything about NH. Just saying that this could have happened to me, having nothing to do with, or maybe because of, my (supposedly) intelligent brain.
Checkme was doing beer funnels and smoking weed at the same time!
>>claire Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 3:59 pm
Gees -you guys here this? apparently well known fact on aruban blogs (from riehl)
“Claire,
From the interrogations made on the four in jail. The polis know she was drugged by the drugs from Steve, they know she died of an overdose, & they know Joran and two brothers raped her. What hasn’t been clarified or really leaked out is where the body is or what happened to the body.
Posted by: islandboy | June 20, 2005 03:50 PM”
Also Aruban newspaper reports one of guys held is very depressed and tried to take his own life..
p.s.
I pasted the above quote, in order to ask for confirmation: Is this rumor or half-truths, once again. Sorry, my full message didn’t come out before.
Thanx! MOMfromMO
It’s a spurious statement.
When I first heard about her going missing after leaving the bar, I thought it odd that any semi-intelligent girl would just outright leave with 3 guys, whether she knew one or two of them or not. I’ve played in bands, spent plenty of time at parties, and if her and Joran really wanted to just fool around, they could have walked to do that, or hopped in the car alone. Now seeing a girl going willingly with 3 guys sounds like a “leave the bar for a quick joint” situation to me.
That’s not a revelation but I can just remember so many times leaving bars/parties getting high with people I didn’t really know too well.
even though the Aruban legal system is different than ours (USA) does anyone know what if any time line (or time expiration) is for holding these guys without formal charges or hard evidence? also when and where would they be arriaigned and how does that work?
from Riehl
Frist Im vary sorry to hear of the vary sad case of Natalee Holloway in such a wonderful place like Aruba but it could happen anywere at any time. There are a few questions that need to be asked of the two men that the FBI are questioning – 1st ask them about the drink that was given to Natalee around 3:15am Aruba Time the morring Natalee never retyrn to her hotel and ask them about what the drug was in the drink that Natalee drunk without her knowing. 2nd ask them about the boat and the 2-1/2 mile trip they took.
They should break dowm and tell the truth about are were Natalee can be found.
Posted by: webweaver | June 20, 2005 05:21 PM
anyone found anything else new?
whats this about vander sloot trying to kill himself? is that true?
Annapolisarubafan,
Did you forward this post to authorities?
Justin T: Apparently, per Riehl, already was sent to FBI…but the timing is confusing (references the “two” detainees–the original 2?– so not sure.
More from riehl–
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — An Aruban judge on Monday ruled that there is enough probable cause to continue holding a fourth suspect in the disappearance of American tourist Natalee Holloway (search), FOX News has confirmed.
A spokesperson for the prosecution confirmed to FOX News that Steve Croes, 26, who works as a disc jockey on a tourist party boat in Aruba called “The Tatoo,” will now be detained for another eight days. The new timetable began at 2 p.m. EDT Sunday and will end next Monday.
Posted by: chel | June 20, 2005 03:36 PM
************************************ and this:
I was brought to this site by several of my friends who live in Aruba.
Steve is known around the island for selling drugs, especially drugs such as rufies and ghb.
From what they say, this is not his first run in with the law.
The rumor on the island is that Steve supplies the older brother with drugs pretty frequently.
It is possible Joran had no idea the brothers drugged Natalee, but leanred of this later in the night.
The polis in Aruba know Natlee is dead and there have been several reports of this around the island from people on the inside. It is just being kept quiet until the case is fully closed.
Posted by: islandboy | June 20, 2005 03:43 PM
********************************and this:
Dan posted information that Steven Croes is being held on the charges: suspected of murder, manslaughter, or intentional containment with the dead as consequence.
Posted by: Unknown | June 20, 2005 06:03 PM
Does anyone know about the bartender at C&C? Could that person be involved in slipping something into Natalee’s drink. This kid seems to know all the right people in getting this done. I bet he and his friends know the bartender very well. They probably paid him off to slip the drug in her drink when one of them ordered the drink for her. Easy to say next drink is on me and just give the sign to the bartender. Timing is everything and they knew when it was the right time.
AnnapolisArubafan,
That is the same charges they are all being held on from what I read on one of the other blogs a while ago
Annapolis,
The referance to the two may be the two that are still at the police station as opposed to the one that is at the prison
various from Dutch news site:
http://wcco.com/topstories/topstories_story_171181132.html
http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=3494478
http://www.topix.net/world/aruba
this snippet from a foxnews story posted today…
“…..In Alabama, a Holloway family friend said Holloway’s relatives identified and located Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers less than a day after the teen vanished. But the three young men were not detained until 10 days later.
“It’s just disappointing that they [authorities] weren’t able to move faster,” Jody Bearman, who organized the graduation trip, told AP.”
sounds like the chaperones were a lot more on the ball than the “polis”
Why in the world would these three guys think they could take Natalee, drug her, and whatever AND no one notice that they all left with Natalee that night? Why would three young guys, supposedly educated, enter into something so nefarious – so evil?
I do not believe any American new source is getting any facts straight. I am a news
addict – all day long and even the stations who have their regular people on site, in Aruba, are not in touch with the basics in this case.(van der Sloot – not wealthy, not influential, not an attorney, definately not attractive)
I pray for Natalee and her family – this is a terrible thing to happen. But, once again, the “news” people are making it worse. We are talking about real human beings – with real feelings – real lives. Someone please get some facts and actuals for Natalee’s family. It hurts to see Beth Holloway Twitty – her pain is palpable. The rumors are sickening and are just rumors. Is there no one on that island with some real authority, with real character to be a spokesperson. The Holloways and Twittys should be told as much as possible of the truths that are known. IMO
“Justin T Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 6:09 pm
Annapolis,
The referance to the two may be the two that are still at the police station as opposed to the one that is at the prison”
Good point Justin. You seem to be paying close attention to this slop called an investigation–what the heck is the deal with no reward? In the States, there’d be $1 mill by now, no question. bizarre, if you ask me
I thought there was a reward of $50,000 initially…
I still believe that Joran and Natalee had fight after sex or something…..he left her alone on the beach and something happened to her. So he is somewhat involved by association but Lord only knows what really happened.
Well, here I am again….what seems to be hopelessly following one blog after another…only to find absolutely no one knows any more now than they did three weeks ago….and not just here….unfortunately, I must miss the news broadcast here that entail the ongoing investigation in aruba….
I think, what I would like to see/hear, would be the timeline? list? of areas searched throughout the island.. as time passes and I read more and research more on aruba….and places there..I cant help but wish someone could say…nope they looked there…went over it with a fine tooth comb….dogs, forensics,( where is CSI when you need them) Aruba is only 20 miles long..and what aprox 504 hours have passed since her disapperance…
shoot we dug up everything but WMD in Iraq…and got media reports on every move that was made
I dont think its to much to lend us that typeof info…
just saying thats not how things are done in aruba…just doesnt cut it…its not comprimising the suspects/ detainees privacy…it doesnt jepordize the potential case…and if it does in fact turn up something that may be overlooked, all the better
one thing is for certain….I dont think this will ever go away for aruba…they must find natalee… or this will ever be the island Natalee disapeared from…..
I pray for MOM Holloway twitty every day….God give you strength…and may you find peace…I thank god you have the means and support of friends to continue your search…your daughter will be in my prayers always.
At the top of this page was stated that Jaron was believed to have tried suicide last night and is on a suicide watch now.
Where are the Kalpoe’s family members? I haven’t heard anything about them.
Has anyone else heard that NH’s father has hired a private investigator?
Pazuzu,
No way no reason for them to tell all the lies they have told if that was the case.
Somebody asked about this earlier today!
Last seen wearing: Natalee was last seen wearing a denim knee length skirt, a teal green halter top and brown flip-flops.
yes,what about the kalpoes familie,i keep asking but nevr received an answer
All those who live in Aruba with their eyes open know the horrors in the shadows. Arubans choose to look the other way as in times past it protected their very lives….but this crime has placed the little dutch island in a very bright light…the purest form of light know as the Lord. She is in his care and will be delivered safely into his kingdom or her mothers arms, but Aruba will never recover, noone will accept she died of a OverDose and dumped into Boca Mahos, that story, told for so many years, is finally finished. She has been abducted and sold as too many of Gods lambs have been over the years. The DEA has well mapped out human trade routes and now all the world is exposed to the evil.
Several things to say. Joran is on suicide watch?hmmmmmmmm……………………………….Should we feel any sympathy for this smug little bastard? Americans and others should not just boycott Aruba, but as much of the Caribbean as we can. Make them feel the pinch and they will put pressure on Aruba.
It seems the biggest motivator anywhere in the world can be in the financial department. Stop the tourism, cutoff the artery that helps keep Aruba and other carribean territories flowing. Someone will cry uncle. The three in jail are where they need to be. Natalee is there on the island and she is waiting to be found. They have passed her many times. Hopefully, they will recomb some of the areas. These boys have no soul. They are sociapathic. The polis of Aruba need to find her and give this family peace.
Something more about this situation. Joran is no overprotective gentleman. He has been to anger management program which is not given to someone just for swearing when a shoelace breaks. He has a history of bullying. He frequents casinos of which he is not legally allowed. He drinks underage. He is Dutch, but the main language of his pals country, Suriname is also Dutch. He is not “out” or really treated as an outsider. Those young men, along with possible help from Steve, hurt that girl and treated her as less than they might treat garbage. They are young, arrogant boys who do not have real respect for females. This may even be some twisted, demented show of an opinion that they took out on Natalee Holloway, but they had everything in the world to do with what became of natalee.
This boy has no sympathy or sorry for anything (very cold). Natalee’s mom was on fox news and when asked by Gretta Van Susteren what exactly did the boy say to her, she responded that when she saw Joran she told him she wanted her daughter and wanted her now and he responded by putting his head back in an arrogant way and said what do you want me to do, what do you want me to do. This boy has no remorse or conscience to be seen. As far as a suicide watch. I hope they give him the rope to hang himself because they aren’t going to get anything else out of this kid. The people in Aruba will be better off without this kid on their island. He is a one man wrecking crew. How many lives did he destroy for his actions. If I were the Arubian people I wouldn’t want this kid on my island walking around where my children are.
What did Joran think? That he would be protected because his father is a judge in training. This kid is 17 and has two cars. Not one, but two cars. His body language spells arrogance, his eyes are cold. Everyone wants to know why would someone get in a car with three guys, but if your drugged,esp. with the kind of drugs used in bars for this kind of purpose, you have no clue what is going on. What happened to her was not kind. It was not something that got out of hand, something that was an accident. It was cold, intentional and pre-meditated. It was like she was “pre-selected.” Why not one of the other three girls she was pictured with. Why Natalee? She was the girl with Joran. He is not a victim. When the truth comes out the world will be apalled.
One more point. Nancy Grace asked is they confiscated this new suspect Steve’s car and they said no they didn’t, his ex needed to use the car so they let her have it. Once again, letting key evidence slip through their hands. They should have taken his car and went all over it with a fine comb. But instead that botched that up also. Didn’t they learn from their first mistake? This is unbelievable. You wonder why people are so frustrated.
Elaine, I totally agree with you. I think this was a plan from the night before and she was targeted.
I’ll tell you why Natalee. They saw Natalee as sexy, happy and a winner and they are ugly, hateful and they are losers.
And they know it.
And they decided they were going to do something about it. They saw her with all her wholesomeness and innocence, and figured they were going to take it from her. Why her and not us. That’s how I believe they think and that’s why Natalee.
Natalee’s father must have and endless amount of $. Now the dope is thinking of filing a lawsuit.
Jug & Jar, it is time for you to leave Aruba. Go home. Natalee is gone.
Fee Fi Foe Fum
Natalee’s father must have and endless amount of $. Now the dope is thinking of filing a lawsuit.
Jug & Jar, it is time for you to leave Aruba. Go home. Natalee is gone.
Fee Fi Foe Fum
On another topic, anyone planning to watch “Hit Me Baby One More Time” this week?
Great show last week. Irene Cara won!
Fee Fi Foe Fum
Fee Fi Foe Fum,
Natalee’s family is not leaving tthe island of Aruba until they find Natalee or her remains. He is not a dope. He is a father. It is not time for him to go home. Or her mother. Jug is her stepfather by the way. Her real father is also down there. Americans should start boycotting Aruba and any other Dutch-controlled island in the caribbean putting pressure on the Dutch government/Aruban polis to find the answers and finally try solving this crime. She is there.
They need to let Joran into the gen pop of the prison to see what kind of a “man” he
really is. I bet within 48 hours he would be singing like a canary. This is a blog about Natalie, not “Hit Me Baby One More Time.”
They just spoke with or at least aired a short conversation of an MSNBC reporter talking to Joran Van Der Sloot’s Mother. She said of Joran, “He is very upset right now. This was supposed to be a very big day for him. No one knows what is going on right now.” Waaah Waaah. What kind of day does she think this is for Natalee?????
Give me a break Ms. Van Der Sloot and quit treating your son as the victim and Natalee as the perpetrater. If he were not in a place he should not be, with two other guys picking up one girl, he would not be in the situation he is right now. I do not believe for a minute he has been anything but dishonest about everything so far.
He has an aora around him that is angry,violent,evil. He has much more to say than he has so far. Much more that he can tell.
I am totally disgusted by the US media, who have portrayed the young men being held in this case as rapist, murderers, sexual preditors, and worse. In fact, the media don’t know what happened, and neither do we. Perhaps the Aruban autorities know more, but for now they appear to keep whatever information they have under wraps, and we must assume that they have good reasons for doing so
Under the rule of law people are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Until then we cannot exclude the possibility that what has happened is nothing else but some freak accident; perhaps the girl boarded that party boat and fell overboard; who knows? If that were the case then these young men happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, but did in fact not commit any crime. If they are innocent, which we cannot exclude at the present time, then they are the victims of a smear campaign orchestrated by the US media
It is not just about one white well-to-do girl having more done for her than others might. As a matter of fact, it is about a kid from an affluent family and a grown man whose father is “influential” not being able to get by with “murder” Look at it that way.
It is about Joran and Deepak and the other one being able to accuse two innocent men of something because they felt it would be easily bought.
It is about these young “men” thinking they can do what they want with a young, female and that it does not matter. It is about a family that has their son under the impression he can be gotten out of anything, no matter what he does. It is about violence against women. It is about justice.
Those items, the duct tape, the other items had something to do with this case. Whether they got used or not, different story. If she overdosed on the drug they poured into her drink or fed her, whether she tried to fight them, who knows. She is there. I only wish I could fly to Aruba and help them find her, I believe I could be successful.
They need to lean on the younger brother. I believe he will crack. He knows more than he is telling. Aruba is hiding more than just Natalee. We need to get international authorities involved. Send the DEA down there, put pressure on these druglords and get serious about finding her. She is speaking out to be located. They just need something to go on. NOW.
Jan,
These boys first claimed to have dropped her off at her hotel, the Holiday Inn. They then claimed to have dropped her and Joran off at the Marriott. Joran claims that they did drop he and Natalee off at the Marriott, that she fell asleep and he left her at the beach and Deepak came back to pick him up. What kind of an “overprotective” escort leaves a young girl laying on a beach, intoxicated? This is not just from American media. British media and Aruban media have many of these articles, statements and so on as well. It is not that maybe they did something to her, it is a matter of what they did to her and where they left her and most of all, Why.
Elaine:
You are mistaken: that ss what the *media* say that the boys said, but in fact we don’t know; it is all hearsay end rumours. You’s better back off untill the Aruban authorities tell us the facts
Jan,
There is not anything to back off from. IF we wait until the Aruban authorities do anything, nothing will happen. The last thing anyone should do is back off. We should keep the spotlight shining, call in international authorities to investigate just exactly what “kinds” of trafficking goes on there, have the DEA come in and see what they come up with, call in specialists in addition to the people from Texas and make the Dutch government no longer want to protect these young men. She is there and it is only right that she be given back.
Does anyone here know how to send Natalee’s parents an email of support? This whole mystery has taken over my waking and sleeping moments! None of it makes any sense, and who is this guy from the boat? How is he involved do you suppose? I told my husband the other night I dreamed she is locked in a trunk of a car in a car lot somewhere, I know that is ludicrious and I am not clairvoient, Maybe this DJ let them go on the boat, and they went swimming and she drowned and they panicked knowing they werent suppose to be on that boat to begin with. What if, what if, what if-
Elaine:
The Aruban authorities are doing their work. One big difference though: they don’t share everything they know with the press, as is being done in the US. If you are not happy with that, well that’s your problem. But you are way of the mark by saying that they are not doing anything. Just ask yourself: how many children are lost every year in the US who are never found back? Does that mean that the US authorities are doing nothing? By your reasoning that would be indeed the case
Back in Natalee’s home city of Birmingham, Alabama over 100 people are murdered a year. Just think about it: Statistically that means that since Natalee disappeared over 10 people got killed in her hometown alone. Do we hear anything about that? Of course not! Yet here you are accusing authorities of another country that they are doing nothing.
Ge real girl, and take away the log from your own eye before telling others to do something about that splinter in theirs.
Well, I did see today that they are sending a team to Aruba with dogs and sensitive equiptment….cna I hear a hoo ya…..this was on the runner on Nancy Grace while I was watching them find that boy in utah…(yeah to that to and amen)
So I find today I am not the only one who’s thoughts seem to seep back to this horrendous ordeal…..I even wrote my dream down…( by the way which is what lead me to look into the island of aruba geographically and into their lifestyle and such…before this aruba was an island mentioned in a beach boys song)
My dream places her..by my investigations into the island….near the refinery…but I am not going into detail….cause I would rather at this point…like to believe there is a chance she might be alive…
Thank you to those who clarify hearsay from truth here…man this is truely the epitamy of if you cant wow em with wisdom….baffle em with BS….
again…..my heart is with you MOM Holloway…may all thats good be with you today and always, may god open all doors to you. Dont forget to rest as best you can…..we are with you all the way.
Email of support to Natalee’s family can be sent to:
natalee@inline.com>
Thanks Molly! Did you all happen to see her mother and Greta at Joran’s house? The mother has guts Ill say that for her! Wonder what the heck they talked about for 90 minutes at the kitchen table? This is the strangest tale of intrique I can ever remember, or at least the strangest that I have paid attention to. I live in a large city in Ohio and crime is not a stranger to us either, but this is stranger then strange!
You’re welcome.
And for reals. I live in a large city in Texas. Lots of things happen, but nothing like this. Natalee’s mom is a skinny lady, but she is bigger inside than most people. I pray hard that she gets her daughter back alive.
Man I am losing hope…the news stations are just reitterating what was said weeks ago….
the team of researchers dont leave till tomorrow. and I am supposing according to arubian athorities….we just had better wait till they get to it to, if they so choose.
I keep thinking I will wake up and hear that they found natalee while I was safe and asleep in my bed here in america….
everytime I set and talk to my son who is off to college this year….I think of natlee and nats mom…you know you live to see your children graduate…you worry you raised them right…you want their lives to be full and rich with all those things you had hoped for yourself…even when yourin a heated discussion with them, you cant help but lookinto their eys every once in a while and see the babe you once watched in their sleep…you worry and fuss when you send them off to meet the world…and live for their safe return, just to catch them for a moment to listen to their stories of adventure, and reminise, rmemebering when you once had those feelings of awe about the world….
and then something like this happens….and how are you supposed to feel….glad its not your child….it could have been your child…..what was the difference between Nat and any other girl on that trip….
how can the events of this…not touch almost everyone…
you knwoI almost would be grateful to hear that she was just being a spoiled brat and was hiding…that she would come back and say OH MOM….you are making to much of it….see I am okay….
anything….anything but this night mare…. that only searves to remind me to cherish every moment I can with my own grown children…knowing there is a mom out their without hers
even with all the blight and meanness in this world….all the tragedy of poverty and catastrophy… this event this sorrrow hits home…..Bless all those in search of natalee… Bless the beast and the children
Give them shelter from the storm
Keep them safe, Keep them warm
Light their way when the darkness
surrounds them, give them love
let it shine all around them…
THE CARPENTERS..from Bless the beast and the children
Has e1 moved to a different post? Does anyone know where?
Thanks
I am trying to join the discussion on this site but havent figured out how to get to the updated list can anyone help me thank you
Why can’t they get a well known physic to help find Natalee?