John Albert Gardner III now linked to the Murder of Amber DuBois after being Charged with the Rape and Murder of Chelsea King


John Albert Gardner III, the registered sex offender who has already been charged with the murder and rape of Chelsea King is now tied to the murder over a year ago of 14yr old Amber Dubois.

John Albert Gardner III

Chelsea King

Amber Dubois

Two wonderful young girls that had so much to offer are gone allegedly because of John Albert Gardner III, a registered sex offender, who it’s reported was supposed to be on medication and was bipolar. By all accounts, John Gardner was protected by his mother. One family member called into a radio station and implied that the mothers lifestyle may not have helped John Gardner’s mental or anger problems. So what do we know about John’s mother?

Catherine J. Osborn

Catherine Osborn during the week is a legislative representative for the American Psychiatric Nurses Assoc of California.

Listed as residents of her townhouse in Escondido near where Chelsea King was found is Kevin P. O’Reilly who claims to run a digital photography company out of the townhouse:

Kevin P. O’Reilly is also listed as living at the Lake Elsinore address that John Albert Gardner III was listed as living at:

What is it about Catherine and Kevin’s lifestyle that could pertain to the murders of Chelsea King and Amber Dubois?

Read in the forum about the weekend escapades that Catherine and Kevin enjoy and how those lead to the back road trails all over San Diego County.

Posted March 8, 2010 by
Crime, Main, Missing Persons, Murder | 81 comments

If you liked this post, you may also like these:

  • Convicted Sex Offender John Albert Gardner Pleads Guilty To Murdering Teens Amber Dubois and Chelsea King
  • The Remains of Missing California Teen Amber DuBois Have Been Found in Pala, CA … Connection to John Albert Gardner III?
  • Sex Offender John Gardner Sentenced to Life in Prison for Rapes & Murders of Amber Dubois & Chelsea King
  • The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio – Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 – Special Guests: Blink from Blink on Crime, Robin Sax, Joe Ocasio – the Father of Tracy Ocasio, Dr Dale Archer & Rick Harrison
  • Co-Workers Upset with Cathy Osborn, the Mother of John Albert Gardner III, and Her Return to Work (Hashers, Pics & Sex Offender Son, OH MY!!!)

  • Comments

    81 Responses to “John Albert Gardner III now linked to the Murder of Amber DuBois after being Charged with the Rape and Murder of Chelsea King”

    1. Greg the mongoose on March 8th, 2010 8:00 pm

      Klaasend you are so far ahead on this case. Do you feel John Albert Gardner III father or lack of a father had anything to do with this case? Was Kevin P. O’Reilly John Albert Gardner III boyfriend? Sorry for rambling.
      1. John Albert Gardner III bio dad never had much to with him. So maybe that did have something to do with how he turned out. From all accounts John had anger issues at a young age.

      2. Kevin O’Reilly is either John’s mothers new husband or live in or roommate. They reside at the same address. John’s mother has been married several times. She was married once before she married John’s father and I believe at least twice after.

    2. John on March 8th, 2010 9:40 pm

      I find this almost repulsive to think that this filthy murderer’s “Mother” represent’s ANYONE with a mental issue. She is clearly challenged mentally. GAWD! Her son is a frigging SOCIOPATHIC/ PEDOPHILE!! She is obviously as deranged as he is, and possible guilty of withholding evidence!! Little Chelsea King was already raped/slaughtered by her deranged son (she knew his mental history!!)and then to say NOTHING when Amber Dubois was missing in the same area!!! His “Mother” HAD TO KNOW!! I can’t wait until they put his ass in prison with some of the meanest, most vicious criminals in prison! Karma will get his low life “Mother”!

    3. John on March 8th, 2010 9:45 pm

      Klassend: Thousands and thousands of kids get along just fine without a “Dad” around…without turning into sociopathic pedophiles.
      Tks. for all the great info.!
      SM: I absolutely agree. (klaasend)

    4. John on March 8th, 2010 9:50 pm

      Is the fat lady in shorts, holding sign next to dog, his Mother, or the one with long, dark hair in first photo? They do not look like the same people.
      SM: Both, different years. (klaasend)

    5. John on March 8th, 2010 10:04 pm

      Please show a larger, clearer photo of Gardner’s mother, if u will be so kind.

    6. kitty on March 8th, 2010 10:57 pm


      Did this monster ever serve time in jail/prison for his first sexual offense? How much time was served? (if any)~
      What level offender was he given… 1,2,or 3…

      What was the time frame(s), from when he was first committed ~ to released, registered…to when he committed these other violent heinous acts?

      Monsters,(pedophiles,predators,sex offenders,rapists,molesters) should NOT EVER be allowed to re-enter society ~ Period.

      How many other murders of innocent children will it take for laws to be challenged, and changed to truly protect the innocent children from monsters, like this?… (and monster, doesn’t even begin to describe these evil, evil vermin)…

      my heart truly aches & grieves for the families of these beautiful girls ~ it’s so, so, immensely sad, there are no words ~ my prayers are with them and shame on the Judicial system! SHAME!~ SHAME! SHAME!~ on them…
      SM: He was convicted in 2000 for LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH CHILD UNDER 14 YEARS. He served 5 years of a 6 year term and was on parole for about 3 years after his release in 2005. A psychiatrist wrote to the judge at the time of his trial that John Gardner was dangerous and showed no remorse and that he should get the maximum sentence allowed. Unfortunately, the judge didn’t give him the max (klaasend)

    7. Honest on March 9th, 2010 12:48 am

      To those of you pouring out such rage and anger towards this family, I would say to you I was one of you, I too was angry, outraged. How could these parents not know? Allow this to happen?
      Until to my surprise I found that they in fact did NOT know, that they were parents trying their hardest to address the large problems they saw with a child they had no idea how to control or correct. They were beside themselves trying.
      They are good people, they give charitably, and have helped people through low times. But I know none of you probably care about these words though they are true. Just consider this, what if all at once you found it was your friend and you knew them to be good people.
      If there is one thing I have learned it is how easy it is to decide that we know who someone’s family is, to blame them and judge them to seek to fault them… until you realize that it is someone that you know. That everything you would have imagined you know, is false.
      SM: I believe the important connection here is the mothers lifestyle and how her group had knowledge of and partied in the back trails of San Diego and Riverside Counties. John Gardners mom very well knew her son had problems, she had to (klaasend)

    8. Greg the Mongoose on March 9th, 2010 1:45 am

      I read a book on serial killers. Most had mothers that were swingers, and prostitutes. I can name a few people (Richard Pryer)(Bernard Kerik) came from the same similar childhoods and ended up OK?
      I believe the father is just as important. But the world likes to blame MOM for everything. My favorite quote from KUNG FOO TV series ” your mother gave you life. What more could you ask for?”

    9. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 2:16 am

      You people spew what you believe to be the truth and disregard anything to do with the real facts of this horrific crime. The Hash was founded in 1938 and is a world-wide organization. We and yes I AM a hasher, host countless charity events and are avid participants in Crime Stoppers Light the Night. We have hashers who actually sit on the Board of Crime Stoppers. Call them up – they’ll verify this because they’re fully cognizant of the Hash. The Hash had NOTHING to do with Chelsea King and/or Amber Dubois’ murders. If you want to know what takes place at the hash – go to one. Unlike this forum, you won’t be judged. John Gardner’s parents are NOT to blame for this horrific crime. Just as the Columbine shootings were not the fault of the parents. Your research is amatuer at best. If you dug further than public records, you’d find that his mother fought long & hard to get him psychiatric help. The health system failed John Gardner when it wouldn’t treat him because he had no insurance. I seriously hope that none of you have children who one day grow up to disappoint you. His mother bears the terrible legacy of knowing her son murdered an innocent girl and there was nothing she could do to stop him.
      SM: Nobody said his mother was to blame. Don’t you think it’s even a little bit possible that JOHN’S knowledge of the trails came from his mother and the Hashers? Don’t you think it would be a good idea to check for any other missing girls near known hash run trails? Do you seriously believe that that a psychiatrist would recommend the types of activities going on at Humpin Hashers as a good idea for a bipolar convicted sex offender? (klaasend)

    10. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 2:27 am

      Oh and FYI….your “facts” about Kevin O’Reilly are more factless than not. Check the public records again super sleuths. He’s not nor never has been listed as an owner on the Lake Elsinore property. Perhaps all of you wanna be FBI agents should contact the FBI to dispell the rumors that his mother didn’t FULLY cooperate with them. You people really need to get a job. The FBI obviously doesn’t want you.
      SM: Did I say he was listed as owner? Does this article mention the FBI at all? (klaasend)

    11. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 10:28 am

      Contrary to your “popluar” belief, John was not/is not a hasher. By the time everyone knew the police were searching for Chelsea, the authorities already had the area sealed. Ever think of that Einstein? I’m sure we have plenty of hashers on medication just as I’m positive some of your super sleuths are on meds. I’m not going to debate the hash with you. Go to one. Post what you walk away with after you’ve seen it for yourself. Speculating is not very becoming. And no, the article didn’t mention the FBI; however, you all seem to pat yourselves on the back quite a lot for digging up public records that a teenager could access and are quick to state that someone should contact LE with that information. They’re didn’t get to be homicide detectives and special agents by posting online. They know how to do their job & they’re doing a damn fine one with this investigation. It’s my observation that you’re all wanna be agents. And last but not least, your comment “Nobody said his mother to blame” is preposterous! Look at the postings you and your super sleuths have posted. I may be blonde but I can still read.
      SM: You are confusing this blog post with the comments by members posted in the forum. I cannot control how others think. (klaasend)

    12. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 10:34 am

      SM: I believe the important connection here is the mothers lifestyle and how her group had knowledge of and partied in the back trails of San Diego and Riverside Counties. John Gardners mom very well knew her son had problems, she had to (klaasend)

      Klassend….do some digger deeping and you’ll determine that the hash has LE, lawyers, doctors, research scientists and a host of other professionals amongst its members. They even have children that didn’t grow up to murder anyone. But then again they probably didn’t have a son who was diagnosed at a very young age with John’s type of mental disorder. Should we lock up everyone with mental disorders in hospitals once they turn 18 and never let them out again for fear of what they may do? How in the hell are the parents to blame for something their GROWN son did? Look it up in a book and get back to me
      SM: What is the fact there are people of all professions involved with the Hashers have to do with anything? (klaasend)

    13. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 10:36 am

      John’s obvious knowledge of back trails came from living in the RB area for 12 years. What a concept huh?
      SM: He was in jail from 2000 -2005 so I’d say 5 years at best. I’ve lived in California all my life and I know very little about most of the trails. (klaasend)

    14. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 11:35 am

      You people are giving the impression by your postings that the hash is made up of a bunch of ingoramuses which is far from the truth. Is it a perfect group? Not in the least but then no group is without it’s share of those that probably ride the short bus to work. You probably know very little about the trails in So California because you sit behind your computer all day rather than get out and discover trails. If you did your homework you’d find out that John lived in RB from 98-00 and then again from 05-present. That gives one a lot of time to discover trails on their own no? Find pictures of him at actual hash events and not holiday dinners where hashers were present. I’ll give you $20 for every one you can dig up. Don’t get all excited about this though. There are none and not just because they shut down the website. There were none to begin with.

    15. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 11:39 am

      “SM: You are confusing this blog post with the comments by members posted in the forum. I cannot control how others think. (klaasend)”

      Then open up the forum to hashers. It won’t happen – you only like one side of the story – yours.
      SM: I have no intentions of opening up the forum to bickering. Bottom line is these murdered girls (Chelsea King and Amber DuBois) are what is important and not any Hasher group. (klaasend)

    16. kitty on March 9th, 2010 12:19 pm

      SM ~ what would have the Maximum sentence have been
      That the Judge could have given him?

      I’d love to have someone question the Judge how he feels now regarding his decision to give him a lighter sentence, and not the Max.

      2 girls are Dead, from this monster. If he and those like him ~ were incarcerated, and the keys thrown away, we would not be continually writing
      on posts like this to discuss our rage regarding the dysfunctional judicial system!

      Those Girls deserved the right to their freedom and innocence… all children, deserve the right to not be harmed by these monsters (for lack of a word for these vermin)…

      but no, the monsters have more rights ~ and those of us, who’ve found our voices, that were tried to be silenced by this type of vermin, will continue to speak out and say, ENOUGH! and by the Grace of God and thankfully through His strength… we’ve not turned to vigilantism.

      When is it going to stop. How many more little girls and boys need to die? Please God, not one more, I pray.

      Solution. Lock up these sex offenders for life… keep them out of our neighborhoods and get more stringent laws in effect to deter their deviant behavior.
      SM: I believe the max at that time would have been 10 years.

    17. Gypsy DD on March 9th, 2010 1:30 pm

      To the Hashers,

      If what you do is not embarrassing to you, not shameful..why are you taking down your website and your pics? If this was a group of people involved in a group for family admitted children attend..why would any of the info out there be shameful to you? Why remove it?

      It has been stated on top of all JAG’s other problems that he was a heavy drinker. Don’t you think his mother should have removed alcohol from her home and her parties if this was one of many of her son’s problems?

      Seems like your idea of fun is running on back trails, drinking until you don’t know who or what you are..then having sex with anything that moves. Even your little names for each other are sextist and degrading to women. Sounds like a healthy atmosphere for a convicted pedo to live in doesn’t it?

    18. NewGirlBoston on March 9th, 2010 1:31 pm

      To Poster: “If you Only Knew”

      Once again—-our legal system has “failed” us here. This Man should have NEVER been let out of jail. Sexual Predators CANNOT be rehabilitated and no one is blaming his family. I’m sure it is a horrible thing to live with but this Man should have been incarcerated in a place which holds the criminially insane. Period. If I were his Mother, I would have helped to have him committed after his last offenses and the Pyschiatric reviews that there was no remorse, no hope for recovery and that he was a danger to society. Tough call, but at least in this way he would have been kept off the streets.

      Do yourself a favor though, stick to the hard, cold facts —-HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN LET OUT.

    19. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 2:42 pm

      Gypsy…what we do is not embarrassing and/or shameful. We have blocked our website to prevent a bunch of vigilantes (you) from posting pictures of his mother. You obviously have no regard for her safety. You obviously believe (in that warped mind of yours) that she is deserving of a jail sentence and/or death because her GROWN son is accused of murdering one girl and is being investigated in Amber’s death. The Hash isn’t for everyone and until you attend one your opinion is like an asshole – everyone has one and you just happen to be one. Have you checked his mother’s house for alcohol? Are you basing your “knowledge” of John’s so-called drinking problem on the interview his psychotic uncle gave? Until you have ALL of the facts and not just assumptions you need to break down the word “assume”. You truly are pathetic

    20. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 2:46 pm

      You don’t open up your forum because and I’ll state this again – you only want one opinion – yours. It’s fine for you to post lies and assumptions rather than factual based information. At this rate why bring in the FBI and/or criminal justice system? You people seem to have all of the answers to all of the questions. Just think of how much tax payer money we’d be saving if you all took over this investigation

    21. Klaasend on March 9th, 2010 3:27 pm

      Sounds to me like the “psychotic uncle” was right about John and the mom was wrong and in denial.

    22. Gypsy DD on March 9th, 2010 4:08 pm

      I do know she had alcohol at her house and parties at her house that JAG attended…because there was a photo of JAG there with the good DR carving meat..with alcohol containers on the counter.

      For the record his heavy drinking info does not come from just his is all over the net..under newspaper articles about his crime..neighbors have posted under those articles
      about his heavy drinking problem and his violence issues.

      His mother’s choices were not well thought out for a health professional in regards to how they may have affected her son’s behavior.

    23. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 4:41 pm

      I was once told don’t battle wits with an unarmed person and that saying is proving itself in spades right now. There are no court documents stating John had an alcohol problem because they don’t exist. What neighbors are you referring to? The ones interviewed in Running Springs? He was a minor then and again the court records will prove that the only trouble he got into was trespassing on high school property. I bet your moms are real proud of you huh? I bet they love that their children condemn the actions of a mother whose child commited a crime. Since when is it a crime to have alcohol in one’s house? The days of Prohibition are long gone – get with the times will you? And the “party” you’re referring to where meet is being carved – it’s Thanksgiving morons! Would you prefer they ate it cannibalistic style?

    24. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 4:43 pm

      Blame the justice system or lack of it for letting John out – not his mother. Direct your anger at the judge who gave him a lenient sentence and the parole board who granted him parole. Your sense of “justice” is being aimed in the wrong direction. Last time I looked, I didn’t see anything in public records stating his mother held the keys to the prisons. Let me check on that and I’ll get ack to you

    25. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 6:56 pm

      I believe and it may be a stretch of my imagination, that if you super sleuths pooled your resources and directed your “investigations” in the right direction, you may actually be able to do some good on this website in finding missing and exploited children. Unfortunately, none of you are LE or else you’d be able to join in the investigation rather than be on the sidelines – wishing you weren’t. If nothing else, honor Chelsea and Amber by helping the girls that are missing – not those whom it’s already too late for. What you’re “uncovering” and I use that term loosely, has nothing to do with this investigation and is cheap entertainment at best. I’ll make a bet with you – when this case gets to trial in the next 1 1/2 to 2 years, his mother’s actions both now and in the past will have no relevance whatsoever in regard to the facts of the case. Look more closely at the psychiatric report from the case in 2000. Not once did the prosecution’s expert psychiatrist point the finger at his mother. For that matter, neither did the defense attorney.

    26. Another on March 9th, 2010 7:04 pm

      I really don’t want to get sucked into a protracted discussion with you guys but wanted to let you know about just a few things.

      I understand your desire to better understand what happened but I can assure you that you won’t find answers in digging into the personal life of Kevin. He only married relatively recently, is not a father to that man, and has no blood relation or any other responsibility towards him. He is one of the most welcoming and kind guys I know and I am so saddened that he, of all people, has been dragged into this. No one deserves to have their personal lives and info bared before all like this.

      And I know that many of you have strong opinions about Cathy, even though you have never met nor talked to her. It’s rather easy to pass judgement on someone in this way and I think many do it out of a need to try to put some understanding to the situation. I’m not going to try to change your minds. I just want you to know that she too is one of the nicest, most caring people I’ve met. I could go on and on listing all the positive things she has done for this community – things I really doubt any of you (nor I) have come close to matching. She is an organizer for good. Not one who just throws a few dollars at the girl scouts when they come by with cookies.

      Please just keep in mind that these are people who do not deserve to have their lives trashed. There have been enough victims in this incident and going after them won’t make this world any better.

      Oh – and the hashing thing: judge it all you like. Those who don’t like what we do don’t come to our events. We actually prefer it that way. How odd, huh?

    27. Rob on March 9th, 2010 7:43 pm

      If You Only Knew is either b****** Gardner’s mom or dreams of it nightly. By the way – your lil hashers group is very childish and immature… maybe the drinking age should be raised to 45 for hashers.

      get a grip you lunatic.. and make sure you know what goes on @ SM before you make blanket accusation. Before you know it you’ll have a pack of rabid victim’s advocates tearing you a new one. LOL

      you have no clue what SM does for kids and the missing. But you were clueless when you arrived here and you’ll be clueless as you leave.

      Last point – you really don’t want admitted to the forum. You’re gonna need a thicker skin than you’ve displayed so far. And far better common sense. Not everyone is a kind as Klaas has been to you thus far.

    28. Gypsy DD on March 9th, 2010 8:13 pm

      We’re not buying what your selling..nuff said.

    29. Greg the mongoose on March 9th, 2010 8:17 pm

      (Interesting background read on )
      “The defendant does not suffer from a psychotic disorder,” a probation officer quoted Dr. Matthew F. Carroll as saying for the report. “He is simply a bad guy who is inordinately interested in young girls.”

    30. Another on March 9th, 2010 8:34 pm

      To the comment that bodies were found on running trails frequented by hashers: hashers quite literally run *everywhere*. It’s part of the group mentality. People take it as a badge of honor to find new running areas in our city. There are very, very, very few truly unexplored running areas left. Thus it is a red herring to believe there is any connection. The area where Chelsea was found is a very popular and common running area frequented by *many* people, non-hashers included. Also, I am unaware of any hash runs taking place in the Pala area – it is far from our normal operating area. Not to say that we’ve never been there – I’m just not aware of it and if we have been there, it’s been a rare occasion.
      SM: Link to the Pala run:

    31. If You Only Knew on March 9th, 2010 8:39 pm

      Either comment on some thing or move on TROLL. Here is some advice for you. Do not tell others what they must do or not do. How about you actually do it yourself. What a novel concept. Also, do not tell this site how we can help … if you haven’t been paying attention in the past 5 years, we have helped. As well as sister sites like BOC.

      Keep it up and you will be banned. How’s that for solving the problem TROLL!


    32. Rob on March 9th, 2010 8:51 pm

      Health care reform is a topic for this thread? wow – you’re taking idiocy to a new and unimproved level, just like Obama CARE. In case you missed it – no one wants Obama “health-care” reform. N O O N E!

      While your size 6 little girl bi-pedals are truckin’ through the canyons and you’re barfin’ all over each other while dry humpin’ a keg of beer – there are people who here care about missing people. They raise money, help families, and participate in searches. All I have seen from you is defense of a serial killin’ pedophile’s mother. Good job – have you considered ass kissing as a profession? cause you’re top notch!!

      You’re gonna have to do better than this or you surely won’t last long in the forum. LOL!!

    33. Rob on March 9th, 2010 8:57 pm

      @ doesn’t know anything –

      just so you NOW know – Gardner’s name was mentioned in the Amber DuBois thread many many months ago. Now you were given a clue – Fool!

      Too bad he wasn’t rounded up long before he killed Chelsea and was given local knowledge by a group that traverses the area. Good job ya’ll. Maybe if you all weren’t so sloshed outta your minds, you might have recognized the danger right in your presence.

    34. CSI is so COOL! on March 9th, 2010 10:03 pm

      The reality is the hash knows there is a group of vigilant internet cyber stockers who like to look up plate numbers off cars, pizza boxes etc to try to chase them down and harass them, there family, there work, etc.. Quite frankly we don’t care if you find the bare bottoms offensive, and you can complain all you want about that, people have in the past we don’t really care… it’s when you’re posting our phone #s, emails and addresses on your forms for your goons to harass us that has us in a tizzy, the hash is pulling down its sites for that reason alone…. We only have our identities to hide and for good reason; you’re a bunch of nut jobs.

      Your tactics are to intimidate and to cause fear… this website you run is nothing more than a thinly guised terrorist organization, the man you want the cops already have so your going after this family’s friends and acquaintances… most of which never knew he existed until this story broke.. Why not move on? Or go back to watching TV.

      For those Hashers reading this: Don’t give in to hate, that leads to the dark side….

      And one more thing…. As individuals, we are nothing, but together we are THE UNSTOPPABLE FIST! And if you see us coming you’ve better step aside, Cus we are the Humpin Hash and we can make anything worse. (and we do….)
      SM: I have removed the screen capture of the Humpin Hash contact list that was posted in the forum. (klaasend)

    35. Another on March 9th, 2010 10:40 pm

      OK, look people: JAG was never an active member of the hash. I question if he has ever been to one of our runs even. Even if he had come on a rare occasion, it’s not like his background was public knowledge to the group. Some of you folks in the forum need to get that into your thick skulls. By the way, there is no screening, testing, background check, blood test or anything else of the sort required for someone to come and join our club. We welcome *everyone* of drinking age or older (at least in San Diego). Feel free to think badly of our group but to suggest that we are in some way partially responsible for what happened is ludicrous.

      As far as photos becoming inaccessible: I don’t personally know why. But I can imagine that family and friends find it distressing to see our loved ones (Cathy & Kevin) dragged through the muck. Can you at all understand that?

    36. kitty on March 9th, 2010 11:04 pm

      “The health system failed John Gardner when it wouldn’t treat him because he had no insurance”….

      Psychologists, Licensed Social Workers, Counselors~ allow sliding scales, when someone can’t afford counseling… some even counsel pro-bono.

      The health system did not fail JG ~ the professionals would have treated him…maybe in fact some tried ~

      If you need the help, you get it ~ you do whatever it takes… you adjust your finances, you go without some luxuries (cable, computer, movies)… most families problem solve and if he was in such need ~ and friends, community knew of his troubles… then, that’s a shame as well.

      Ask for help. Ask. Ask your local church to help… your community… family ~ (or this group his family belongs to, could have intervened and helped them financially if they help community as shared ~ why didn’t they help support him in affording health care, if he needed it so?…)

      ~ there are no winners here.

    37. Another on March 9th, 2010 11:14 pm

      And there is nothing in that 10 news article linking JAG to the event – no photos, nothing. Of course his mother & stepfather attended – they nearly always attended the Sunday event. It’s irresponsible journalism.

    38. Another on March 9th, 2010 11:48 pm

      Doing my best to correct the statements I keep seeing on your board: there is no sponsored hash run in Chelsea’s memory. The web message you referenced merely mentioned another running group (non-hash group) having such a run. Get your facts straight please before you tear people down.

    39. If You Only Knew on March 10th, 2010 12:48 am

      I’m going to be banned???? Say it aint so.
      SM: Grow up. Or is this as grown up as you get? I really would not be playing games here, my son.


    40. IBE on March 10th, 2010 4:29 am

      Some here are crying “wolf” too often.

      Some of us on have been together for over 5 years. Some have LE backgrounds, but most don’t of us don’t.

      Collectively we have contributed time, both online and in person, on the ground searches, money for helping find missing persons and correcting the MSM (main stream media) when they have their facts incorrect. is a combo of many intellects. Even the owner of this site, Red, has combed through the trash dump site in Aruba with Natalee Holloway’s dad, looking for her. Many of us have been on TES searches all over the Nation.

      I personally have been thanked by the family of a missing girl and the family’s famous attorney for the help that we did on in helping find a missing coed.

      I have read the hashing sites and their history. If you don’t want things known then don’t post on the internet.

      I do find it, personally, degrading in their name choices, but each to it’s own. Its the persona wished. When a hashing site in SF says the “requirements” are bringing an extra pair of socks, liking beer and bringing condoms, it makes me wonder.

      The bottom line here is to protect our children and prevent them from being killed not to debate “hashing”. Thank you and God Bless

    41. If You Only Knew on March 10th, 2010 10:01 am

      In all seriousness, I applaud the work you do to find missing children. However, the suspect is in custody now and tragically, the girls are no longer missing in this case. Why villify the parents? Makes no sense to me. It’s not like it will prevent another child from being harmed by slandering the parents and picking apart their lives. Perhaps it would behoove you all to contact the Kings and Dubois and find out if this is what they would want?

    42. A Texas Grandfather on March 10th, 2010 3:49 pm

      The police and the courts have screwed up in this case.

      I have taught bi-polar kids. They must always be on medication and one never knows when their normal good behavior will suddenly become vilent. This change can happen in less than five seconds.

      Two beautiful young girls lost to society because people charged with respnsibility did not do their job.

      Parents need to realize that young women who travel alone in today’s society are at grave risk for loosing their lives.

      A recent survey found that acros the nation there are more than 700,000 registered sex offenders. We need to make a concentrated effort to locate these people and get them under control. They sould be removed from society forever.

    43. Greg the Mongoose on March 10th, 2010 10:52 pm

      From John Albert Gardner III, past statements you would think anger would be directed towards men?

      “from a family of alcoholic men and his father sometimes abused him.”

    44. Labubske on March 11th, 2010 7:08 pm

      I can understand “If You Only Knew’s” anger…the hashing group is now in the media and is getting a bad name because of the link between JAG and his parents involvement with this group…that appeared to be very sexual. Of course, it is not the hashing groups fault for JAG’s behavior and I don’t believe that anyone truly feels that way. Now his mom allowing JAG around it (knowing his offender status) could be brought into it to a point…and I do believe that the attorney’s will bring this up. Regarding the statement, “John Gardner’s parents are NOT to blame for this horrific crime. Just as the Columbine shootings were not the fault of the parents. Your research is amatuer at best. If you dug further than public records, you’d find that his mother fought long & hard to get him psychiatric help. The health system failed John Gardner when it wouldn’t treat him because he had no insurance. I seriously hope that none of you have children who one day grow up to disappoint you. His mother bears the terrible legacy of knowing her son murdered an innocent girl and there was nothing she could do to stop him” I don’t know the details about what she did for him, but I know from working in the mental health field, that there are resources, even in CA. I saw the report stating that he doesn’t have a psych problem. I think that most of us in SM find information and post it because we feel that it may be relevant, it may lead to something else. Yes, we speculate and add in our own opinions at times, we have that right. The comments made by “If You Only Knew” were rude. I am not a “wanna be agent…” If, I wanted to become involved in the law enforcement field I know without a doubt that I would be welcomed. I am sure that the family of the missing/murdered children are thankful for citizens stepping up to make changes. The police have so many cases that they often times are so overloaded that they miss details that a place like this can find. They are smart enough to distinguish what is relevant and what is not…when SM’s report the info. If more citizens stepped up and asked questions, reported information, researched what was going on in their communities…then less crimes would happen. What is wrong with that? If the information is not related to the case then what is the harm? If hashing is legal and is not related then what is the big deal? It will lose the front page status within days. If JAG’s mom warrants no blame then that will be found in trial, so what’s the big deal? What does she care what a forum thinks…especially if we are wrong?! Doesn’t make sense. We are entitled to discuss things and exchange opinions…just as the hashing community is allowed to do the their thing…we open ourselves up though to public opinion…both of us.

    45. celia on March 13th, 2010 2:14 am

      As a typical crime forum poster and a non-hasher, I would like to interject here and stand up for the hashers. I have actually been to two hashes in another country. They are attended by all kinds of people including doctors, lawyers, professors. There is nothing nefarious going on at these, they take place all over the world. I believe it is an English tradition (Hash House Harriers). Yes, they may drink and occasionally sit a bare butt on a block of ice, but not always and so what. I can see how they would not want their pictures borrowed and blasted all over the web, let alone in relation to a murder. And, yes, posters on crime forums often get carried away. I do believe that sometimes those more intimately related to a particular site/forum often over step their bonds with their involvement in cases. There is yet another case in the news where this is going on right now with a missing baby (as well as the actual PI’s behaving badly, anonymous writers of content, and so on). Be careful about getting carried away and hurting others and injecting yourselves into a case. That is not the same as doing research which is what crime forums should be about.

    46. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 3:13 pm

      So (EDIT), tell me – how do you and (EDIT) like living in (EDIT)? We’re actually neighbors. Perhaps I could come over for a cup of coffee and we could discuss all of this in greater detail. Just a thought
      SM: This comment prior to edits, the email address and IP used in this threat has been sent to the police.

    47. Scared Monkeys on March 13th, 2010 4:09 pm


      I hardly think making threats while hiding behind your keyboard is the smart thing to do. I really would not go down that path if I were you.

      Just a suggestion.


    48. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 4:15 pm

      The police? Because I suggested we meet for coffee? Who’s paranoid now? Oh wait…you are because you’re the one who puts addresses and personal information on your site so others can go harrass the parents of accused murderers. It wasn’t a threat – it was a suggestion that we quit hiding behind the keyboard and talk this over. Some people’s kids! If you’d like, I’ll post my address for you and you can come by here. I have nothing to hide my dear!
      SM: I suggest you direct your anger at the person who likely lives in your neighborhood that wrote the graffiti on the garage door as they are the ones who outed the address of JAG’s mom, not us. Then I’d be angry at John for what he has done.

      I suggest you watch this, I am:

    49. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 5:48 pm

      Wait…you didn’t allow my last and best post. I’m slightly disappointed in your discretion on what you will or won’t allow in this forum. My previous comments stand as to your “one-sidedness” on this subject. Garage doors can be painted over – villifying his parents cannot. What a concept huh?
      SM: Vilifying the parents? I think you might want to have a chat with all the folks at the Scripps Mercy hospital. They seem to have an opinion all to their own.

    50. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 5:49 pm

      I am watching of her teachers is speaking as I type.

    51. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 5:53 pm

      Darn…I just saw a picture of Monkeys taking shots of tequila on

      Could this be you and your husband Klaas? And even if it isn’t it’s not in good form to drink in public. You never know if one day it will come back to haunt you and your family.
      SM: Actually you hateful moron, it is not. But what a shock no one is bareass in this pic are they? Hmm. I pretty see everyone in a bar acting like one normally does in a bar. No one sitting on a block of ice naked. I know it gets hot in San Diego, but come on.

      Of course you can drink in public, let’s not cloud the issue here dude.

      Actually, ya make one more threat and it will be your undoing. Don’t think we can’t track the IP. Trust me, we be a crime site. ;)

      However, I am sure you will like the latest post.


    52. Tracygirl on March 13th, 2010 6:19 pm

      Dear mr crazy person can you please shut the heck up, Chelsea’s memorial is on right now and find it very rude of you to post this sort of thing right now. Get a grip already and remember this is not about your right to be naked in a park this is about a young girl who is now dead

    53. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 6:58 pm

      Tracy…MY point exactly!! It IS about Chelsea King and the person who is accused of killing her. It should NOT be about his parents! You folks are the ones who started the forum “Who’s Kevin O’Reilly” Last time I looked, he wasn’t on trial for this brutal act. “Splain that Lucy”
      SM: Funny, this doctor does not agree with you. Actually, he really does not agree at all with you and says … “The responsibility for doing the damage is of course on the shoulders of those who did not parent this boy properly,”

      John Gardner is responsible and acted as an adult and should be held accountable. However, it looks like he had help along the way. Exactly how did a behavioral nurse not see the signs?

      A local psychologist told 10News John Gardner’s childhood could explain his behavior as an adult.

      10News spoke with psychologist David Gruder, who said, “Children learn from modeling. All of us learn from what’s modeled to us. Not from what we’re told.”

      10News learned Gardner’s mother, Cathy Osborn, is a member of the Hash House Harriers, an adult running club. Pictures obtained by 10News showed club members, including Osborn, partying half-naked or completely naked after a run.

      Gruder said any child exposed to such behavior would be impacted.

      “If this is part of the environment that a child grows up in, then that child starts to believe as a child that this is part of what’s normal and that it’s OK for them to follow in those footsteps,” said Gruder.

      Meanwhile, a childhood friend of Gardner’s told a Lake Arrowhead (Riverside County) newspaper that as a teen Gardner admitted to having bipolar disorder. He also said he had been sexually abused by a male member of his family.

      Gruder said that shouldn’t be a surprise because many sexual predators were victims themselves, and those victims react differently as adults.

      “They’ll either go to one extreme where they become very, very asexual or anti-sexual, or extreme in terms of their hatred of sexuality or they will go to the other extreme or become very indulgent in their sexuality. But that indulgence can take many forms,” said Gruder.

      Gruder said none of what happened in John Gardner’s childhood is his fault.

    54. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 6:59 pm

      Track my IP address. Is that a threat? Should I now call the police? You people don’t scare me. Trust that!
      SM: No threat, the LE already has your emails, don’t bother.

      No one is trying to scare anyone TROLL BOY. You are the one who sent the threatening email.

    55. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 7:03 pm

      Darn this could go on for days and just might if you allow my postings. The “people at Scripps” are still employing his mother. Just goes to show you that those that know the difference between who is or isn’t responsible for this tragedy have more sense than you do.
      SM: Stay on topic and lucid and I will, otherwise you are wasting bandwidth. Otherwise your posts will be deleted like the past couple. Personally, you bore me.

      Why don’t you give up your seat at Starbucks to a customer that is actually drinking some coffee. So you feel the need to hide out at an undisclosed location other than your home to post these comments, lol, priceless.

      BTW, this ain’t Klaas.

    56. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 7:07 pm

      It’s amazing how a doctor can give his “expert” opinion when he didn’t examine and/or treat the person and/or his parents. I call that shoddy medicine. What do you call it?
      SM: Shoddy parenting!

    57. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 7:12 pm

      It’s really not nice to call people names. But then again when all intelligence fails some will (and do) resort to name calling. Your wife has much more tact than you do. Give the keyboard back to her ok?
      SM: Not my wife fool.

      TROLL is not name calling, its what you are.

      “Do not feed the trolls” and its abbreviation DNFTT redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see “What is a troll?”.

      In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional responseor of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

      Bye, bye … have a nice day … go drink your Mocha Frappuccino and be on your way. Come on there are paying customers who want to use the internet responsibly.

      Don’t bother posting comments anymore, I am performing an Internet intervention for you, go do something productive.


    58. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 7:13 pm

      BTW…I knew it wasn’t “Klaas” DUH!

    59. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 7:15 pm

      Naturally you call it “shoddy parenting” because you can’t back up the good doctor’s diagnosis of someone he didn’t treat.

    60. ChiChi on March 13th, 2010 7:22 pm

      Pull the plug already…

    61. If You Only Knew on March 13th, 2010 7:28 pm

      I don’t understand why you people find it borish/offensive/rude for me to post the things I believe in when you don’t have any problem posting the things you believe in. I take it none of you were on the school debate team huh?
      SM: Nope, I enjoy those that take the opposite side of a view. No one has to be on a debate team to deal with the likes of you. Been doing this too long, you are a dime a dozen. You don’t want to debate, you think its cool to be threatening to others. That is not debate. That is being a little hateful troll. No wonder JAG was like he was.

      Sorry, deal with too many things, stories, missing persons and crime to waste my time with you.

      The mom has more issues than to deal with stuff here. I am sure the folks at her job will be all so accepting of a behavioral nurse who can’t see the issues in her own son to correctly treat strangers.

      Bye, bye for good this time … have a nice life.

    62. Tracygirl on March 13th, 2010 7:40 pm

      I read about John Anthony’s childhood and young adult life and I see a train wreck. There are many lessons parents can take away from his story of what not to do. I am a parent and I know I have influence over my children. I have to watch what I say, what I do and how I protray myself. They learn from me, I am their best and most influencial teacher. That is a fact with all mothers not just his but then again, given his history I would think she had more of a responsiblity. Her son is in prison for killing and raping a sweet young girl. She carries some responsibility, whether she cares to see that or not.
      I think it is time you move on. Your argument is reaching an end.

    63. missiontoconvict on March 13th, 2010 8:15 pm

      Appears “If you only knew” needs to take a run and work off some “nervous” energy. By they way Rob good posts.

    64. whocaniturnto on March 14th, 2010 12:45 am

      The party’s over for JAGs mother. The weight of what her son has done is HUGE. So huge, I can’t get my mind around it. Suffice it to say that the rest of her life won’t be pretty. Whatever the conviction and sentence her son receives, she will bare the burden of too. I believe its inescapable as a mother.

    65. carrie on March 14th, 2010 9:25 am

      Dang! I understand righteous anger – but y’all don’t have to be so mean to each other…

      What does that accomplish?

    66. Michelle on March 15th, 2010 6:58 am

      Post #45 was sensible and seems to be unbiased. Yet it was ignored in the banter of the responses from SM answering the person inciting an argument.

      If #45 has been on some runs, I don’t understand why a site like this interested in facts does not take more interest in the comments presented from actual experience.

      I live in San Diego, am deeply affected by this tragedy and want to learn more – especially how laws can be changed to prevent this happening again. I’m reading here, and your corresponding sites, for information and active things to do to change our laws. This case,if nothing else, points out that we are failing somehow to protect our children.

      From reading here, I understand specifically that an SO was staying with his mother and she did not report this to authorities. I don’t know the legal ramications of this, but that is a specific thing to target and change – something that creates actions and solution. All SO living arrangements should legally be required to be reported immediately, even if they are staying one day. Not doing so should be a criminal act. This is focus and action, and I suppose a group as determined as what I’ve seen now on these sites can do something to get us there.

      Some things though, I don’t understand here. The professional responsibilities of the mother being questioned actualy make some sense. You all are going about it a little crudely, but yes, that makes sense. I have the same questions – why would a person educated in mental health issues not see these things in her own son? Or even if she’s in denial (which is it’s own mental problem itself), how could she not follow the law to report an SO at her house? These are just my questions, and sad ones given the outcome. I don’t understand, and I think the laws need to be changed and stricter.

      But, that said. I don’t get the focus here on the running club. It has disctracted you and is making things seem kind of tabloid like. Today the San Diego Union Tribune had on its front page a picture of Cheasle’s memorial and eveyone holding a sunflower and a heartbreaking quote from her little brother. This is the sad thing, this little girl’s life ended. This is the point, how can things be changed to not let this happen again. If I understand your site here and the others – how do you gather all of your energy into a force to make change? There’s an army of emotion right now and you have put yourself in the spotlight – how do you help everyone focus for change? I think the people of your site have a positive opportunity right now specifically to organize change.

      Traceygirl apparantely fell off her chair and gathered her husband’s attention from her vocalization of learning what ECT means. I don’t know what ECT means, but how does that help Chealse? How is this funny banter helping anything on a site meant to solve the problem?

      My understanding, and I’ve read every site I can read about this, as it has touched my heart to the deepest and I would like to do whatever I can to solve our failures. Your site seems like a good place to organize action.

      So, points or facts.

      JAG exhibited violent tendecies as a child. Per radio conversation on the KFI John and Ken show with an uncle, beat up a cousin. Per court documents, was on or prescribed many meds.

      Per published conversations with a high-school friend, was molested as a child and considered suicide. Did not handle a break-up well, and the girls he possiby murdered resemble this girl.

      Psych reports state that he has no psych problems, he is just bad. Has a highly unhealthy interest in young girls.

      This is a very bad man who violated parole seven times without reprucusssion.

      In my opinion, this is where the possible course of action exists from a dedicated group like yours – how did this happen? I’m scared of parking tickets, I have no idea how someone violates parole and doesn’t get in trouble.

      Now to the point that seems to be the favorite of your site, and the one I don’t get:

      JAG’s mother currently belongs to a running club that is a little free in their behavior. Per your sites, she has pictures dating back to 2002. JAG would already be in prison at this time already if I uderstand the timelines correctly.

      There are pictures of JAG at a Thanksgiving dinner at mom’s house with some running club members. There are no pictures of him at this running club. Running club has stated that they never saw him at a run.

      Mom joined in 2002 (per photos), when JAG was 22 and already in prison. I can’t speak to Mom’s state of mind or their relationship, as none of us can, but based on the facts presented by your site, and the forums, I don’t get it. How do Mom’s activities when John was already in his 20′s have anything to do with his upbringing? I think it’s like the tabloids I buy when I have a long plane ride – just mind numbing fun and something to do.

      End point is this, you have a site with so much energy focused on missing people and crimes – that you gives you so much ability to make change for so much good. I just found you, but am saddended by the heavy focus on tabloid, when I think there is so much you could focus this energy on.

    67. HAPPY on March 15th, 2010 1:58 pm

      Cannot thank Michelle enuf for her facts and common sense.
      AND for bringing it to your attention that Cathy didn’t start hanging around hashers til 2002 while JAG sat in jail as an ADULT.
      It’s assumptions/accusations like this that will come out during the trial.
      SM: So? You think it makes sense to be hanging with the hashers and the bizarro things that were done and have a convicted sex offender living under your roof?

      So let’s understand this … her son sits in jail accused of nearly raping a teen girl so mom’s idea was to join a run club and act in a risque manner? Well doesn’t that make sense. I guess that would be the reaction of every mom after their son is arrested as a sex predator. YIKES!

    68. Tracygirl on March 16th, 2010 12:38 am

      If there is a link to the hasher runs and dump sites there maybe other victims out there buried along some lonely trail.

    69. HAPPY on March 16th, 2010 10:11 am

      And where is this link to hash runs and victims??????

    70. NM on March 16th, 2010 12:58 pm

      I think the link Tracygirl is referring to is a connection not a website.
      I see why you call yourself happy and not smart.

    71. HAPPY on March 16th, 2010 2:29 pm

      You all do realize that when you bring “the hashers” into your posts, you are bringing in roughly 100,000 hashers from around the world don’t you??? Oh and that includes the young children who are part of the FAMILY HASH where EVERYTHING is rated “G”!!!

      In my humble opinion, you folks need to get your facts straight before you all find yourselves in a lawsuit for slander, defamation of character or whatever….I’m not a lawyer but I’m sure that a good lawyer can find something amoung the thousands of postings about this case that is worth sueing over. Disclaimer; this is not a threat. It’s my own opinion after reading too many of these postings.

    72. HAPPY on March 16th, 2010 4:20 pm

      Connection or link, it doesn’t matter, where is the proof????????????????????

      Nice to see the insults haven’t stopped, thanks!

    73. Somer Oak on March 16th, 2010 6:32 pm

      Thanks to all the non- haters.
      Cathy is a good person and is not responsible.
      If it makes everyone feel better to be full of hate then so be it.
      SM your post are mean and hurtful.
      Try finding ways to prevent rather than tormening the ones that are not responsible.
      SM: LOL, you said it not us … “Cathy is a good person and is not responsible”.

      So she is not a responsible person?

      You people that call others haters because they question border on idiots. I am guessing you like Obamacare care to and don’t question subverting the US Constitution.

    74. NM on March 16th, 2010 7:34 pm

      I’ve been reading this blog for almost 5 years. The “haters” as you call them are you trolls.

    75. somer Oak on March 16th, 2010 8:56 pm

      LOL to you sm
      You are so angry you cant even type correctly.
      Let the legal system, that knows the facts determine who is responsible.
      May you be blessed with enlightenment.

      And the haters are the ignorant people so full of anger that they don’t even know where to direct their hate.

      Cathy Osborn is a great person, and she will continue to be loved.
      SM: She can be loved all she wants, that still does not stop the fact that she has a predator son, convicted sex offender.

      Those of you who are so quick to call people haters are the same morons who use the term racist like you change your underwear. Sorry, questioning people and examining their role in the upbringing is not a hater.

      I guess all her co-workers who did the same were haters too. Yup, every one who disagrees with you is a hater. Pretty same logic, ain’t it.

      Why don’t you go for a run now and take your clothes off.

    76. Scared Monkeys on March 16th, 2010 9:25 pm

      #71, What the hell does this have to do with Hashers?

      Have you actually read what this post is about? This crime has nothing to do with the HASHERS. Actually, that were pawns in JAG’s sick game and perversion.

      There is a reason why these girls were abducted on running paths and left for dead on them as well. Can you not see the connection between JAG his mom and the hashers? The connection is not between the HASHERS and JAG, its with mom and the HASHERS and JAG getting back at her.


    77. HAPPY on March 16th, 2010 10:00 pm

      Nope can’t see the connection, only the unfortunate coincidence.

      SM is so sure that he has done this to get back at his Mom, do you have a medical report that says this??? He could adore his mother for all anyone knows. It’s all assumptions right now!!

      Is part of the SM mission to destroy innocent peoples lives??? If so, mission accomplished.

      Hashers just want to be left out of the bashing and picking apart of what they do. They have learned a very important lesson about posting pictures, guess they have SM to thank for that.

      The pictures you have seen and the names that you find repulsive are all done by adults. Many of whom are dying for the right to give them the freedom to what they do, have fun without being judged!!

      I’m sincerely asking that SM give the hashers a break and leave them out of your postings.

    78. Michelle on March 17th, 2010 7:17 am

      Aside from the arguing going on from two perspectives who will never agree – something interesting is brought up in post #76, which is similar to what Klaas has stated with bold words in the forum.

      I’m not sure why I’m so interested in this, but am trying to follow the logic as presented.

      To quote #76 – There is a reason why these girls were abducted on running paths and left for dead on them as well. Can you not see the connection between JAG his mom and the hashers? The connection is not between the HASHERS and JAG, its with mom and the HASHERS and JAG getting back at her.

      Following the facts of this case as best I can, you make an interesting point, so I’ve thought about what you are saying.

      Girls abducted on running paths. – where was Amber abducted? I haven’t seen any information on this, though of course I may have missed something. To me, women running alone are the most vulernable, i do it all the time. I have nothing with me, am focused on running and it’s probably the most vulnerable state to find me in. Why have so many women been accosted while running in New York Central Park historically? A girl was accosted on Dec 27, same day as a hash run. Same park Chelsea was taken from. No hash run on the day Chelsea was taken. From facts, my assumption would be that JAG has been to this park many more times than we know about, has watched girls there and probably thought about what he wanted to do many more times than he actually did it. This park and others. I don’t think as far as facts go that it has anything to do with his mother’s running club trail, or else there would’ve been a hash run to coincide with Chelsea and Amber being taken.

      Left for dead on them as well – quote from #76 post. Chelsea was left on an edge of lake Hodges – was there a hash run there? I have not seen facts for this. I love lake Hodges, have watched it over the years be a beautiful lake, then no water and full of trees and everything in between – including it’s eery kind of look now. I walk around the area and through the sidewalk trails there – it’s a hard place to get to. I don’t know how a running trail would go through that area. So correct my facts, but how is the place Chelsea’s body was found part of a hash running trail?

      Amber was found in the Pala area. I saw your map with the arrows. I saw the screenshot posted of a run in that area. I’ve seen the website that has the San Diego run postings now as well. Your screen shot didn’t match that site. It took me awhile to find it, but your screenshot matches a completely different hash website up in LA or Orange County, not completely sure where they are located. But this is obviously not JAGs mother’s hash run if she does these runs in San Diego with the Humpin group. It looks like a different group based on what you have posted.

      From facts, JAG lived in Escondido for some time. It’s an easy trip up the back roads from Escondido to Pala. I know this from living here, don’t need a running group to tell me. If I was sick enough to be thinking about where to stash a body, those hills and tons of land – well, there’s just lots of land out there. I don’t see the factual connection to location of bodies to a hash run, let alone the leap of JAG acting out against his mother by these placements. It is a better story, and would certainly make for a better Lifetime Sunday night movie, but I am not seeing this in the facts as they are.

      SM, you as a group seem well intentioned, and I am not arguing – just reading through the facts here.

      And because I am not being argumentative, I do not expect a response.
      SM: We are not arguing. It’s a respectful exchange of ideas. This is what a debate/conversation is. Its a back and forth exchange.

      No one has to agree with any or all of one’s opinion.

      You do realize that one of the bodies was at the very Casino location where the Hashers ran, right?

      Nothing is going to be so cut and dry with a sick crazy murdering pig like JAG. There is a reason why people like this do not have their wires crossed just right. However, these folks do things for a reason. Their hate is beyond words. He committed hate crimes against these women. Maybe, just maybe he does not like woman at all.

      Just saying.

      Look forward to your further posts.

    79. Gary W. on March 20th, 2010 8:35 pm

      Please everyone stop believing all the bulls&$% about therapy and/or cures for these people. Just look at the statistics and the headlines in the last 10 years about these people. Even the psychiatric community states “we do not speak about cures”. What the h($^ does it take to wake up our legislators?
      John Gardner is like a rabid wolve attacking young children. Kill the son-of-a-b&*&% ASAP!!!! And if someone is convicted of this type of crime in the future, never let them out or execute them.
      I can’t help but identify with Chelsea’s parents, because our daughter was a great kid, a track and cross country runner, great student, and god only knows wonderful person.
      I went to see one of her two sons today in a karate tournament, and the happiness, love, and pride my wife and I enjoyed, Chelsea’s parents and Chelsea will miss. I looked at my daughters eyes and saw them tear up with pride, happiness, and most importantly love.
      And after reading all these blogs today I thought the Kings and Chelsea will miss what we experienced today and the last 14 years since she was a senior in HS.

      Kill that mother*(*#@) now!!!!!!

      All the lovely God fearing people say they forgive him and those like him because they “understand” the antecedents conditions and issues that create someone like this.

      I don’t forgive him, and I’ll sure as hell be willing to face whatever comes for that in the hearafter. And if you need someone to stick in the needle – write that email address, cause I’m the old feller more than willing. I would consider it one of the most important things I did with my life.

      Our children are worth protecting, and if that means killing a “rabid wolf” it is our obligation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    80. Convicted Sex Offender John Albert Gardner Pleads Guilty To Murdering Teens Amber Dubois and Chelsea King | Scared Monkeys on April 16th, 2010 8:39 pm

      [...] Albert Gardner was charged in the rape and murder of Chelsea King, it baceme rather obvious that there was a connection to the death of Amber Dubois when her body was suddenly recovered after being missing since February [...]

    81. Therese on April 10th, 2011 12:36 am

      Now that a year has gone by, the news has quieted down, I have a thought. Would this type of behavioral illness be present in a genetic form? Could a brother or cousin of this killer john gardner also be susceptible to acts of rage and a danger to society? Are there more ill people in the our home area (Southern California) that we should be vigilantly watching out for and protecting others from? As the elders / more wiser adults in our communities, it lies up on us to educate our family, friends and those that don’t seem to know. Its the thinking of a small village dwell in the vastness of villages.

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