RSSNatalee Holloway Missing in Aruba: John Q. Kelly on Geraldo at Large (2/24/08) … “I think they could arrest Joran Van der Sloot and prosecute him on a circumstantial case
John Q Kelly … Joran Van der Sloot has something to hide.
“… but one of them has to be true because we’ve never found her and you don’t dispose of a body, you don’t help in locating the person when you’re the last one with her unless you have something to hide. I think he was fearful that an autopsy if she was found would show there was something in her system.”
Geraldo At Large: February 24, 2008, Guest: John Q. Kelly (read the transcript)
Geraldo: John, first of all you’ve got the Joran Van der Sloot situation. He confesses on tape, how strong is the case against him?
John Q. Kelly: I think they have a very strong case Geraldo.
He goes to Carlos & Charlie’s a half hour before closing. He buys Natalee a drink, he takes it from the bartender, he walks over to her hands her the drink, stands there, she finishes the drink. Within 20 minutes she’s incoherent, she’s lapsing in and out of consciousness.
We know he’s dropped at a beach with her, he says now she went into seizures, you know she started shuddering, she stopped breathing and then he gives three different versions of what happens to her, but one of them has to be true because we’ve never found her and you don’t dispose of a body, you don’t help in locating the person when you’re the last one with her unless you have something to hide. I think he was fearful that an autopsy if she was found would show there was something in her system.
Geraldo: But because the body was disposed of aren’t you frustrated that it does not appear that he’s going to be re-arrested.
John Q. Kelly: Sure, I think they could arrest him and prosecute him on a circumstantial case just on what they have right now. A combination of other testimony and how own words would be enough to prosecute him.
Geraldo: That would be reasonable but that would not be Aruba.
John Q. Kelly: You’re right.
Posted February 25, 2008 by Scared Monkeys Aruba, Crime, Deceased, John Q. Kelly, Joran Van der Sloot, Media, Missing Persons, Murder, Natalee Holloway | 133 comments |
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133 Responses to “Natalee Holloway Missing in Aruba: John Q. Kelly on Geraldo at Large (2/24/08) … “I think they could arrest Joran Van der Sloot and prosecute him on a circumstantial case”
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Daury = Drew Peterson
Extradite Joran to the US….and let JQK get the job done….!
Urine will eventually die and he will meet his maker,and what he takes to his grave with him , will be his own doing, and his punishment as well. ” Hell hath no furry like the scorn of a woman ” Natalee will have her justice if not in this lifetime, but another ……..God Bless Her..
When urine panicked with what was happening to Natalee he called his father, thats a given. Paulus is the mastermind from there on!!!!!!!!!!!
Bring his dumpy a$$ in and get the truth!!!!!!!!!
This is not rocket science, the Daddy covered his sons a$$, clear the smoke and look!!
Paulus, your so busted and your mistake of a son is as well. Your a sissy of a man and your son is a sissy with a vengance. I have to laugh at you and your spawn, you both in the eyes of the WORLD look so stupid. How does it feel to be the laughfing stock of the World? LOL, No place to hide and no place to run, you pot bellied pig, your just now feeling the pressure, its gonna get even worse from here on out, lol…….
Hey Paulus, do you feel the world crumbling around you? LOL, it gets better with time. Your wife leaves you because your an idiot and she can’t handle the national news and spot light you have created. LOL, I have to ask, do you know what a Slug is? Well a Slug is a creacher that is very slimmy and so low to the surface it is touching and crawls with a very slow pace, I saw your picture next to one in the dictionary, it was quite interesting. A little salt and the slug just shrivals up and dies, lol. Expect a ton of salt your way sissy, lol, I bet you do not swim in the ocean either.
I just want to see Paulus on down taken out and dealt with, the Arubans can deal with the rest of the trash on their island if they have the balls to. We all know there was a cover up from the beginning and it was from high ranking officials, but to get to the heart, we need to bring the daddy and son in and face facts. This is much bigger than everyone thinks and Natalee got caught in the middle of it, something they never dreamed would happen. We will probably never stop the corruption, but we can bring down the a(xx)holes who took Natalee from us……..
Drew Petersen is as guilty as they come, a cop who could initially intimidate anyone from the get go. He is arogant, self centered, controlling, and a wise ass. And educated in law enforcement. sorry for the typeos, lol, you get my drift tho. Stacie may of very well left him in fear of her life knowing he would not harm the kids. I dunno, But it looks as tho he is guilty of killing her as well as kathy. He would know all the ins and outs for sure, the what to do’s and not to’s. I would think if he trully loved stacie, he would be heart broken and not make a mockery of the media as a ladies man. What a putz, look thro his smoke and see if you can see him for what he really is……
Its hard for me to post and speak to you all when Im on line with exception of a fluke day off now and then, I work a lot and nights as well. So, I have to put my two cents in when I can, so don’t be upset with me if I get a bit twisted now and then, Im right with you all and want justice for our Natalee……
Right now Im trying to deal with Breanna Denisons captor and death. This is so close to home, very close. Another wonderful young lady taken from us for sexual pleasure. Some one here made a joke about did Urine visit Reno about that time, I appreciate that comment, I really do, it makes me and many others aware of his ( Jorans ) attitude and heartless behavior in Natalees disappearance. Right now all I can say is when the person is found who did this to Brianna, well, it’s a big Desert” Quote to the Joran confession, ” its a big ocean ” enough lies have been told about Natalee and how she was disposed of, I think maybe Joran should be put alive in a crab tap and weighted down and sent to the bottom alive. Right or wrong, it would serve him right for his lieing and his big belly friend he will take to the grave should also feel the weight, after watching his spawn, choke in the water and die and know he is next.
I never thought I would be so enraged, but I was so wrong, We have so many of our young woman being prayed upon and taken for sex and then ultimately killed, Why? It has to stop, its just not right, I want to say to the men and woman who thinks sending your young to the corner for a time out is about your generation this is all happening, an ass whipping is a good thing if done right a beating is another story. Kids have the upper hand now a days and cry wolf and the parents get arrested. Be proud of your selves…today no kid is scared of their parents, they have controll. Not the parents. Thanks to the panty waist generation, we have to deal with the laws they have infected us with. You ask, what is wrong? OMG, you go figure, let the kids rule………..
What Im saying is, this generation of children have no fear, of authority or their parents and seem to think its a gift to them to do what they please. Parents are so laxed and have to work more to make ends meet the kids are home alone more and kids do need entertained. Thus they find alterior things to entertain them.
Sorry, I have gotten off on a tangent, but, Urine is the prodidgy son, He only knows what he was taught……………… ( Paulus ) his daddy…
Beths book translated in Dutch! (Good move! I’ll buy!)
http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/buitenland/articleview/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2008/02_februari/25/buitenland/0225_1030_boek_holloway.xml
(Transl.: Google and me.)
Twitty describes nightmare after disappearance daughter
Book mother Holloway in Dutch
The book that Beth Twitty wrote about her missing daughter Natalee, is translated in Dutch.
Nightmare
The book appeared earlier in the United States as “Loving Natalee.” In Dutch it’s called the ‘Lieve Natalee’ (Dear/lovely Natalee). Twitty describes in the book the “nightmare” in which she ended up after her daughter went missing during a short holiday on Aruba.
Research
Furthermore, she talks about the investigation into the case, and the three main suspects: Joran van der Sloot and the brothers Kalpoe. The American version of the book on Amazon.com gets nearly five stars.
Im one to believe your the way you are from your teachings, thats all you know at the time. You believe its right till you venture on with an education and learn other things in life. Then its a matter of opinion and how you decide to make it work in your own life. ” Choices ” is a good word……….
Urine made a bad choice and involved his father, and together they made the worst decision possible. A bad teacher!! The choices they have made will eventually bring them down, no doubt in my mind. Joran and his Grave taking perv will fall…………..
‘tHE MONSTER OF ARBA,’ URINE VAN DER SLIME, CONFESSED O-N T-A-P-E TO DOING AWAY WITH NATALEE HOLLOWAY.
HE DRUGGED HER, RAPED HER, KILLED HER, AND HAD HER THROWN OFF A BOAT.
THE WORLD KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT.
THE WORLD ALSO KNOWS THAT “ONE CORRUPT ISLAND,” THE DUTCCH ANTILLES, AND THE NETHERLANDS HAVE AIDED AND ABETTED HIS PSYCHOPATHIC CRIMES.
I WOULDN’T GO TO ARUBA IF I WON A FREE, TWO-WEEK, ALL-EXPENSES-PAID TRIP THERE.
ONCE YOU STEP OFF THE PLANE, IT’S ‘OPEN SEASON’ ON AMERICAN TOURISTS.
WHERE’S NATALEE?????????
“You can’t prove I did it” implies “You can prove I didn’t do it”.
“No body, no crime’ (‘You can’t prove there was a crime’) implies ‘You can prove there wasn’t a crime’.
Joran’s legal team simply needs to establish one of the two exonerating conditions, which should be provably true based on their client’s statements.
The attempt, and indeed at the outset, to establish that Joran didn’t do the crime resulted in the arrest of the two security guards. That the accusations were so egregiously false speaks volumes.
The attempt to establish there wasn’t a crime seems to me to be the purpose of the ALE’s “Natalee used drugs” line of questioning. Using drugs has not been established by her history, as far as I know.
If a trial based on circumstantial evidence is presented, I would think that Joran would have to establish at least one of the two exonerating conditions.
I haven’t seen any indication that he can.
Joran will scape goat this, no doubt, he wil have to live with this his entire life and his wife, lol, if he gets one as well, and pay the piper when he dies………….Bottom line……
there is no escape for him, at all……….
how aruba acting clueless is just frustrating…
no regards for human life
why the USA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DO NOT STOP ARUBA FROM PROMOTING TOURIZM ON THE AMERICAN SOIL
THATS WHAT I’M ASKING ALL ALONG
Just wondering…..why doesn’t JQK/Beth/Dave initiate a civil law suit againest the CowPoo brothers. get those little weenies over here under some good ole’ american interogation, i’ll bet they crap in their pants and cry “he did it”!! especially satish who appears from the articles i’ve read, to be the shy and quiet one of the two. and i’m wondering why they haven’t done this all along. someone will break sooner or later….
#18, Our country is based on the freedom of speech. In this country you can say what you like to anyone as long as its the truth, but can be sued if it is not the truth.
I emailed the US secretary of state and I hope everyone here will encourage other Americans to also email, call and/or write. Here is the link to email the state department to demand diplomatic action to resolve the Natalee Holloway case:
http://contact-us.state.gov/
I think it is also a good idea for those brave and tireless souls running this website and organizing boycotts to regularly post paypal information in the threads to solicit donations. I love the totebag idea and would love to buy a few to be passed out.
Honestly, Kaye,
I don’t know that anyone has enough on the Kalpoes to do anything, but, its all spectualation from here. In my opinion, the Kalpoes do know what happened, Im just not convinced they are that deeply involved as Joran is. Don’t get me wrong, I believe they did help drug Natalee and drove her away but I believe they left Natalee and Joran alone.
I ahve a question: CAN the US extradite Joran or K2? I thought the crime would have had to happen on US soil.
#23 thanks Mr. G, agree. but in their taped conversations from inside the Police van, they allthree talked about how if the body was found Joran would be in deep crap…..they all knew about joran calling paulus and paulus telling them all to go home, everything would be taken care of. by the way, where are these police tapes anyway? some more mysteriously missing eveidence…..and why was Deepaks car locked in the VDS compound and only taken out when some of Beth’s “investigators” climbed up on the wall that surrounds the property and were taking pictures? too many questions unanswered….but Cowpoos know what happened to natalee and they know where she is…they were just told to keep quiet……paulus van der scum, your day is coming!! by the way, read Into The Deep by andrew hodges, MD. it’s hard to follow but interesting how deepak opens up…..it’s like he wants to tell someone what happened….
Moving passions and personal judgments to the side, the crucial question is if a case can be built around circumstantialities, given the Dutch legal cannon. I don’t know and some insight will be appreciated from connoisseurs of Dutch Law.
I can see a trial by jury inciting the indignation and outrage of its members with all the indirect evidence from the events surrounding the case, but the situation would be different in a trial where the sentencing falls in the hands of a judge well versed on the details of the law, possibly demanding evidence from direct observation of facts.
Beth, Dave, JQK need advise from Dutch legal experts.
right on mr G.
freedom of speech….
nh is a case of a missing person…till today..
no one came up with even 1 proof of nh s death.
no one can proof that J was last person with nh.
proof coverup and corruption.
justice is based on proves, not hearsay, maybe,
i think, rumors, lies, ect/ no only solid proves.
USA ; GUILTY UNTILL PROVEN INNOCENT.
ARUBA/HOLLAND ; INNOCENT UNTILL PROVEN GUILTY.
DE VRIES AND PATRICK ARE CRIMINALS,DRUGGING A PERSON TO GET INFORMATION,CANNOT BE USED IN ANY COURT….
i am not defending anyone.
I AM DEFENDING ARUBA; STILL SAFE ISLAND AND FULL OF TOURISTS FROM ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD.
JORAN,PAUL, BETH, DE VRIES, PATRICK V EEM,KALPOES,DAVE,JUG;; NO ONE HERE IS ARUBAN…
MAYBE THEY DONT CARE ABOUT ARUBA, I DO….
PLS SUE ME…..
LONG LIVE ..FREEDOM OF SPEECH…
@23
IMO if the Kalpoe’s knew anything they would have been finger pointing to Joran (and vice versa) for a very long time.
And by incrimination each other I don’t mean that conversation in the car in which both the Kalpoes and Joran take wild guesses but really rat each other out. If they knew what Joran did to Natalee, they would have told already. And if they were involved, Joran would have included them in his ‘confession’.
good night all, , gods speed in Natalees recovery, may she rest in peace….truth shall prevail, no doubt, one way or another…………
#27, go screw yourself, your with out merit and have no concept of what I was even saying. Your a Troll and and you need some serious below the ice attention……….
#28 Amsterdam… Not true… The Kalpoes know that the higher ups Paulus and others are handling this murder. They know they would be
wiped out if they spoke against Joran. AND
if Joran spoke against them they would then finally talk…
Amsterdam,
The evidence is there that the Kalpoe’s knew what happened to Natalee during “phase I” of the evening – the drugging and gang rape at the Van Der Sloot compound.
I am pretty confident that Paulus sent the Kalpoes home at that time and the dealings with Natalee were no longer known to the Kalpoes. Satish asked, “How’s the girl”. They know something happened to her…they don’t know how Paulus dealt with her.
We know now that Paulus “disappeared” her per Joran’s confession in the car.
MD
@ Hoepelman
Neither Aruba nor the Netherlands have jury trials.
The public prosecutor decides whether someone gets prosecuted (without – in most cases – a complaint being necessary) and after the investigation of the prosecution is finished, a date is set voor the case to appear in court.
The judges or (3) judges (that depends on whether the maximum prison sentence of the crime at hand exceeds the period of 1 year) then decide whether the court deems it legally and convincingly proved that the suspect committed the crime.
It is possible that someone is convicted on the basis of indirect (circumstantial) proof however, this will be difficult in this case since it is not sure what happened to Natalee (because her body is never found).
Dutch law stipulates that 1 witness = no witness except when the statement (for example the story of Joran) is substantiated with other hard evidence.
All there is at the moment are the different stories of Joran. The fact that he lies about everything is no prove. As a suspect, you are not obliged to tell the truth. There is no body, so it is not sure whether Natalee is dead and if she is, that she died of natural causes or someone killed her.
there is no blood, there is no DNA, there is no boat, there is no-one who would have operated the boat, the shoes were never found, no other people have stated that they know what happened…the only thing that is sure for now is that Joran is a pathological liar.
IMO (I’m a civil and no criminal lawyer) it will be very difficulted to convict him (of what?) based on the mere ‘events surrounding this case’
@ Sharon,
My god! Talk about complot theories!
I lived on Curacao (the neighbour island) for a couple of years and yes, the politicians and police are perhaps incompetent and yes, I do think that the fact that Paul van der Sloot was (WAS) part of the judicial system once perhaps resulted in the late arrest of Joran. But if you knew the system of the island one bit, you would not speak about ‘higher ups’ in this context.
First of all, the Van der Sloot family is originally Dutch and the Dutch are not really popular with the Aruban people nor do they “own” the island economically or have the power.
Furthermore, Paul had to leave the judge-education because of this case and is now a lawyer so no-one is protecting him.
In aruba and the Netherlands, the judiciary, executing and legislative powers are separated. Joran is definitely not protected by the public prosecution (mos wants this case solved), not by the government (who is fed up with all the bad publicity) and neither by the court who didn’t have a say in this whole case as yet. So, your statement that the Kalpoe’s are forced to shut their mouths (by whom? and under what threat?) is, if you knew where your were talking about, based on nothing.
#18 I have written the State Dept. Please write also they need to step up to the plate.
Address: 2201 C St. NW, Washington DC 20520. A letter is probably better than email, but email is better than nothing. Sent mine to Condoleeza Rice.
To someone who really knows….
Is it true in Aruba if you are a local and you take out a tourist and don’t return said tourist to the safety of her hotel accommodations and said tourist is never seen again you, the local, can be charged with kidnapping.
I know I read this early on, but never knew if it was actually true. It would make sense to have such a law in place so locals don’t go around making tourists disappear without consequence.
BUSTER
DREW PETERSON
OJAY
AND
SCOTT PETERSON COMBINED..
#27
When you say, “no one came up with even 1 proof of nh s death”, then the statement, “some can come up with proof that Natalee is alive”, is implied to be true.
When you say, “no one can proof[sic] that J was last person with nh”, then the statement “some one can prove that Joran was not the last person with Natalee” is implied to be true.
If the prosecution can provide circumstantial proof that your statements are false, then Joran must provide exoneration by resolving the implied antithetical statements.
He has tried, eg. framing the security guards, but thus far has failed to provide exonerating evidence.
Li (#22) … May I suggest that you write to JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com, which is a kind of central information coordinating point, and ask about PayPal. You also can make other arrangements.
Amsterdam (#34) says: “Paul had to leave the judge-education because of this case and is now a lawyer so no-one is protecting him.”
We know that PvdScum was rejected as a judge in training BEFORE Natalee even set foot on Aruba.
And sorry … but there are clear signs that he is being protected. Incidentally, Amsterdam says he lived on Curacao … well, that’s where Amy Bradley vanished from a cruise ship in March 1998, one day after the ship docked in Aruba and members of the crew wanted to take her to … you got it … Carlos ‘n’ Charlies.
Curacao is at least as corrupt as Aruba. The whole Netherlands Antilles seem to be swinish.
@ 32
drugging and gang rape? There is no prove whatsoever for that? Both the Kalpoe’s and Joran repeatedly stated (when they were questionend by the police) that they didn’t have sex with Natalee and that Joran did not have sex with Natalee in their presence. And nobody ever declared that one of those boys drugged Natalee.
And how do you know exactly that is was Paul who ‘dissapeared’ Natalee? Because the story of Joran that one Daury helped him, turned out to be not true (like all of his stories)?
Don’t get me wrong; I do think that Joran has something to do with the dissapearance of Natalee. However, if there is no prove, there is no prove. Innocent until proven guilty.
Here’s the problem with any trial….who would preside?
It has already been shown that the Judges on that Island continuely rule in favor of the perps even when LE try to exercise a search warrant.
They have shown repeatedly that that are on Paulis’s side, so whats the sense of even having a trail down there. The Judges won’t recluse themselves from the case and have already made their decisions as to guilt.
I would like to hear from our Dutch posters as to how can any Judge can rule on this case when they know the suspects and even call them friends….this would never be allow in the US system of justice.
As much as I’d love to see Joran and especially Paulus go down for what happened to Natalee, I have to disagree with JQK.
I think taking this case to trial right now would be a huge mistake. Anita wants it. Joran wants it. So, HUGE Mistake!
Besides that, I don’t see they really have enough clear circumstantial evidence to convict anyone yet. And I honestly think if a body were found, the way they do things in Aruba, even that would not be enough to ensure a conviction of any sort.
We have to face the truth. Joran and Paulus are getting away with this.
So many times already it seems if they wanted to penalize Joran or Paulus for anything they could have at least charged Joran with lying and screwing up the investigation. They talk about how much money they’ve spent on this case…well, how much of it was because of Joran’s lies leading them on snipe hunts? How is it that they don’t care that Joran is lying all the time? Answer…they don’t care.
And what about Joran’s underage illegal gambling activity? With Paulus right there at his side? Why couldn’t Paulus be charged with contributing to the deliquency of a minor? And why weren’t the establishments who let Joran break the law penalized in some way?
What about CC’s serving Joran drinks? Underage! Why weren’t they penalized?
And for that matter, in the group J2K, Deepak was the only one of age, so shouldn’t that make him responsible for the 2 minors he had with him in some way? I don’t know about this one…it’s pushing…but the other things above…what about them?
@ Mike
That’s why this case is not handled by an Aruban judge (regarding the re-arrest and the pre-trial detention) but a judge from another island; Curacao….
@42
In Aruba as well as the Netherlands you are entitled to drink as from 16 years old and hard liquor as from 18 years old. This is not as strictly enforced as in the US. The same goes for gambling which is legal as from 18 years old.
However, this is all considered to be minor offencens and punishable with fines only. The same goes for C&C.
And of course, Deepak cannot possibly be held responsible for what his friends are doing..
@Amsterdam 020,
Problem with that is that Paulis also knows those Judges well and vice versa. It would have looked much better if they brought in a special judge form Holland to rule on these decisions don’t you think?
Thanks, Richard, I will take your suggestion and write to JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com to make arrangements for a small contribution. I’d just like to see a link on the home page and more frequent requests in the threads to nudge others. Even those with limited resources may be more willing to contribute a few dollars if the process is a bit easier and if every thread puts out a call.
The folks doing all the work are doing enough. The rest of us can at least put out the call regularly and write to the state department. Thanks, also, kayjay for posting the address. It’s my understanding agencies prefer fax and email due to the previous ricin scares but the written word is always very powerful. I encourage all to call, write, fax and/or email today and every day and to encourage friends and family members to do the same.
As I recall, immigration activists have created a lot of havoc on Washington switchboards and I hope we can all do the same. Not just from this thread but all threads on all websites various members frequent.
Please, everyone, post the state department contact information everywhere and often.
disgustedmom — to add another thing to your list, how about an investigation into Paulus smuggling in a cell phone to Joran when he was supposed to be isolated?
I still think diplomatic pressure from our government, (fingers crossed, an enforced national boycott!!) WOULD get the answers, arrests and convictions of the responsible parties — each and every one of them. I agree with many on this site that Joran is only one of many complicit in the coverup, mishandling, and general lack of accepted procedures applied to this case. I’m confident the actions of many may be found to be illegal, if there is ever a real investigation.
70% of their ecomony is a lot to lose and will necessitate a real investigation of all of those responsible, from Dompig up and all of those below as well. Let’s all write and encourage others to demand action from the American state department.
Well if we can’t get justice for Natalee, we can at least use the scumbag as a example for other young girls to avoid . I have included the following link, a must see.
Kathy Gibbons: Before girls go wild, watch this
kaye — a civil suit is an excellent idea. It is my recollection they’ve tried this and it was thrown out. Due to the Kalpoe’s suit against Dr. Phil, essentially submitting themselves to the jurisdiction of American courts, it was hoped they could be sued as well as sue but it didn’t work out.
#48 sorry about that. New Link
http://www.record-eagle.com/features/local_story_055100313.html
Amsterdam
All three of them have admitted that they had sex with Natalee! The Kalpooooos talked about how easy it was. See Joran’s lips move in the video of him in the car. He said that they had sex. Joran described her underwear. Where do you get this nonsense that they did not have sex with her? Joran also has admitted that he had Natalee dumped in the sea, and he did not know if she was dead! Gang rape/murder. These words are out of the mouths of the perpetrators. We are all way beyond the innocent until proven guilty stage. Get over it.
Amsterdam 020: not sure how well you know Aruban or Dutch law, but apparently you don’t know the case all that well. Paulus has failed as a Judge BEFORE Natalee went missing. To say anything else is to try to make Paulus out as a victim.
Someone has the full casino tape of who is sitting next to Natalee with Paulus’ bald spot and his watch.
The Kalpoe brothers may not have all the information, but trust me, they have at least some. For example they probably know that Natalee was drugged. Joran described sex acts with Natalee in the back seat of Kalpoe’s car. These two things would make him guilty of rape and kidnapping.
van der Straaten knows something. He told the media that Natalee was dead, he knew because he had seen the evidence.
What’s the explanation for the furniture truck at the van der sloot residence while Joran was in prison?
What happened to Joran’s 05/31/2005 statement?
Why did van der Straaten offer to send Joran to a mental hospital instead of prison?
What would Joran get 15 years for per the Kalpoes?
Why was the international media informed that Natalee was dead and a suspect was leading them to her body?
You see: there ARE people on Aruba that know the answers to these questions. And their knowledge could easily provide the “proof” you speak of.
@Mike
Unfortunately, the Netherlands has no jurisdiction at Aruba since it has status aparte within the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Amsterdam… Aruba is a drug infested island with lots of corruption going on behind the scenes and you can take that one to the bank
)
#19 Kaye… I agree …. and both Deepak and Joran with their hateful evil comments about poor Natalee tells you how hate filled they are…
#11 RuRobert …thanks much for the update. I am so happy Beth’s book is now going to be on the selves in the Netherlands. Let them all read on how terrible she was treated and how corrupt things were handled. It is so good that the people from there can read it and hopefully those in their government will read it also.
Amsterdam why do you protect the Kalpoe’s so much, are you their cousin? Thou protests too much!!! The truth will eventually come forth and
all will pay for their dirty crimes!!
I hope Peter D. has another panel show where they discuss Beth’s book in depth, after it
has been released for some time in the Netherlands.
This story is not dieing out Vandersloots & Kalpoes and all the others involved.
Justice for Natalee!!!
Once again… how many people go out on a consensual sexual date..and come up missing the next morning, because they got sick on the date? How many men call someone to get rid of their consensual date’s body, when she becomes ill?
Hans Mos talked of the chat sessions these 3 had, talking about picking up American girl tourists and what they planned to do with them. One of the 3 in a chat session said, the fact the girl is dead is not good. Deepak talks of going out in his police statements, and Joran or Freddie would make the first move on the girls.. and went on to say they have all been in the same motel room having sex with tourists.
The Kalpoes cleaned their car that night before daylight.. first it was for ants.. then they later said sand. A neighbor reported seeing them scrubbing their car inside and out. All of them said Natalee hit her head and shoved Joran backwards.. as if Natalee was attacking him. yeah right..
Deepak made the statement..the purpose of the chat traffic that night was to throw off an investigation.. What investigation? It was not even known Natalee was missing. Satish asked how’s the girl? why?
The Kalpoes did everything they could to obstruct an investigation also. These were not people looking to bring forth the truth. Why does Deepak refer to Natalee as a slut? Deepak still says they went to the lighthouse. Joran says a guard there gave a statement, they weren’t there that night. 3 fishermen on the beach said they saw noone matching the description of Joran and Natalee that night..
How is one so intoxicated they are suffering from alcohol poisoning and yet they are walking up and down the beach talking and consenting to sex? It just don’t happen. When Natalee walked out of Carlos n Charlies..she walked on her own and was talking to her friends. She never told any of her friends about sharks or anything.. All that only happened after she got in the car according to them..it only gets weird around these 3..
Perhaps she was slipped a drug, and it did not take effect yet, because later he has her going in and out of consciousness.. One can no consent to any type of sex while doing that. The reason their story is a joke is because one minute they have her sober, when it suits their story and the next drunk when it suits their story, then back to sober…etc.. It don’t happen like that. The Kalpoes clearly said, if they find the girl they will see that sh*t. One does not hide a body unless there is something incriminating on it.
How many people have a good enough friend to call up and say go get rid of this body for me…I’m going home and not miss any sleep tonight.
Natalee’s friend a few nights ago on Dateline said, Joran told them he was a 19 year old tourist from Holland. So no way was Natalee asking to go see his big house. He probably said I’m going back to my hotel in this cab..I’m staying at the Holiday Inn too, you can catch a ride back too.
Almost 3 years later I can’t believe we are still here.. It is very clearly who is responsible for Natalee’s fate..Follow the trail of lies. One does not lie, unless they are trying to deceive and cover up something.
# 56 Sharon,
You’re welcome! I totaly agree with you. But the only thing or first thing, that is needed now is a strong communication-campagne so everybody knows the book is on the shelves!
I don’t know what the publisher is planning but maybe you all, sorry, we all monkeys can do something to let them know?!
@ #34 Amsterdam
Your offense taken at Sharon’s post is puzzling.
The idea that the Kalpoe boys are afraid of the “higher ups”, or, members of Aruba’s Judicial system, right or wrong, is a very plausible theory.
Aruba is very corrupt at the judicial level. Take Paul Van Der Sloot for example. Here’s a lawyer and at one time a judge in training who disregarded the laws of Aruba by allowing his son to drink in bars and gamble in casinos.
It doesn’t matter how lenient the punishment for those offenses are. It’s still a crime. A person who swears to uphold the laws of their country while simultaneously breaking them is called CORRUPT and they rightfully open themselves up to public scrutiny and suspicion.
Aruba’s corrupt judiciary system is also evident in the large scale drug-trafficking and drug-money laundering that goes on in the country. This business thrives due to pay-offs at the judicial level. Please don’t bother to suggest that this isn’t the case.
A country with a corrupt culture goes hand in hand with fearful citizens and Aruba is pretty darn corrupt.
#59 maggie and #61 lotte lenya…..AMEN BROTHER!!!! you BOTH have it right on the mark.
It’s funny how Amsterdam stays clear of certain posters on the board. He picks and chooses who he will answer or retort to.
IMO
How can anybody know of “the system” of Aruba, when there is NONE!
“We don’t have that…we don’t have this….” blablabla……..
What do you have beside all the evaporated evidence and statements?
Corrupt police, corrupt beach patrol, corrupt judges, corrupt ‘justice’ people??
Do you have actually something what’s not corrupt, kind of a law, to convict criminals or do you have only crocks in your system?
3% of the citizen controlling the whole islands corruption and also the rest of the people.
Sounds like slavery!
Curacao and Bonaire same thing!
Belongs to the Netherland Antilles as well, why should it be different?
Hopefully de Vries has some more cats in the bag.
Boycott this Devils Islands!
Arrest the Sluuuts, better sooner than later!
And not to forget, all the other dirty rats!
You are disgusting and upsetting and thats the truth….
EuRobert…. Will the English version be translated verbatim or is there a possibility that words could be translated to mean something other than what is intended? The reason that I ask, is there has been mention that the language that Joran speaks can be taken out of context when translated to the English language, giving the words or phrases a whole new meaning. I just hope that the true meaning of Beth’s words are not twisted in any way.
#53 The “status aparte” appears to be used as an excuse by the Netherlands to do absolutely nothing..except perhaps to send yet another idiot prosecutor to the island to continue the cover up where the other corrupt little witch left off.
BOYCOTT ARUBA
BOYCOTT THE NETHERLANDs
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
HELL FOR THE VANDERSLOOTS
Arubans want Joran extradited to the US…he needs to be turned over to us…..our FBI and legal system will see to it things are done as they should of been….JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
Amsterdam 020 on February 25th, 2008 10:20 am
@ 32
drugging and gang rape? There is no prove whatsoever for that? Both the Kalpoe’s and Joran repeatedly stated (when they were questionend by the police) that they didn’t have sex with Natalee and that Joran did not have sex with Natalee in their presence.
*************************************************
Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !
Okay I just picked myself up from the floor laughing so hard. Did you really just use a statement of Joran’s as a basis for your point. Oh wait he repeatedly said. Must be true if he repeated it!!!
Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !
Ha ! Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !Ha !
Joran was talking when he made these statements and Joran cannot be held responsible for any statements he makes while talking.
Everyone needs to watch the old movie, “The Star Chamber” Better not say anymore on that subject
# 65 Terri
Don’t worry Terri. I think Beths publisher is behind this translation; not anyone of the VanderSloot-network (or spiderweb if you will)…
I have been researching the drug trade and mafia
ties on the island and I am shocked
our government did not have warnings about travel to Aruba before Natalie was murdered. I worry that our travel money is just a cover for Aruba to carry out its real industry…DRUGS and MONEY LAUNDRYING. Our boycott may be incomplete without exposing the druglords .
SUNDAY PATRICJ VAN EEM WAS KICKED OUT OF A CASINO IN ARUBA,I WONDER WHAT THE CRIMINAL DID THIS TIME, SELLING MARIJUANA ?
_________________________
SM: We heard that some of Joran’s friends tried to beat him up. Sounds like Joran’s friends are the criminals (klaasend)
SAY WHAT U WANT …REALITY… BUT PATRICK IS A HERO … HE DID WHAT NO ONE ELSE COULD DO… AND WHATS THIS ABOUT JORANS FRIENDS KICKING HIS ASS…..
NC TRIPP
SO PAUULUS IS TIED IN WITH ALL THAT CRIME.. MONEY LAUNDERING… DRUGS AND WHATEVER ELSE.. HUMAN TRAFFICKING PORNO… JUST THE ICING ON THE CAKE…
I FELT LIKE HE WAS IN DEEP … WHY ELSE WOULD HE HAVE SO MUCH POWER…
BOYCOTT ARUBA
YA THINK HES JORAN OR FRIENDS OF HIS .. COMING HERE TO GET INFO
If we can proove stalking, we got them…
Including and especially Charles Croes, in my opinion. It’s against the law to stalk an American when the act of stalking results in death. Besides, isn’t it against International Law to kill an American as a human sacrifice for a Foreign Nation? If not, it should be.
.
Boycott!
SHARON CHICAGO
MAKES ME WONDER IF AMSTERDAM IS HERE IN DISQUISE OF ONE OF THE PERSONS INVOLVED.. HIS PRESENTATION SPEAKS VOLUMES
KATABLOG
VERY GOOD INFO.. A FURNITURE TRUCK AT THE VANDERSLOOTS.. HMMM… PAUULUS WAS FREE TO DO AS HE WANTED.. HE KNEW THAT THE CORRUPTED OFFICIALS HAD HIS BACK AND STILL DO.. ILL BE CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THIS ALL ENDS.. ITS NOT OVER. TILL THE FAT LADY SINGS.. AND I GOT PLENTY MORE HAMBURGERS TO EAT… BEFORE I SING..
AMSTERDAM
YOUR SO FULL OF IT
AND FULL OF EXCUSES FOR YOUR CRONIES IN ARUBA
YOU ARENT FOOLING ANYONE…HOMEBOY..
How long has it been since the ten Dutch experts did their investigation and took soil samples from the Sloots yard and garden area, as well as from the rocks. They said that they had some difficult DNA tests to perform…
Where are the results?
Surely, the Dutch wouldn’t have their dirty little hands in the human trafficking business that goes in and out of Aruba? Do they have something to hide? Why aren’t they forthcoming? Do the dirty politics lead right up the steps of the Hague?
.
Queen Bea:
How’s your singing voice?
.
Boycott!
Gee I’m really surprise (NOT) that Amsterdam 020 hasn’t been back to answer my post #52. Any time he’s handed substance, he runs like a bunny.
NCC:
How convenient to have yourself
declared a pathological liar…
You can say ANYTHING!
.
Hey, Van der Straaten!
You’ve been outdone…
Who needs an assylum
when you have Ma & Pa Sloot
running your life?
.
Amazing!?!?!?!!!!
Katablog:
I re-read your post #52 and agree with you whole heartedly. But, I have a question… Do you know exactly what date it was that the furniture truck went to the Sloots house?
Thanks, in advance,
Patti
Whoopeeee Patrick was kicked out of a casino.. and Paulus can take his underage son drinking and gambling and that is fine. Next night he ok’s his son to go out drinking and gambling underage again. We already have the impression, it’s who you know in Aruba, not who you are. At least Patrick took his punishment and did his time for what he did.
Joran is not some little baby who was forced to use marijuana.. His book talks about beating the drug tests in prison after using pot there. Speaking of a past criminal ..Where is Posner? Seems he is welcome to Aruba..
Maggie:
A little Police harrassment?
I’m not surprised…
They’d harrass ANYONE
who is trying to get to the truth.
.
Aruba keeps showing it’s colors
and the boycott grows stronger
and stronger!
.
Justice for Natalee!
#52
Add this to your list of questions:
Why did the VDS’s get a new gate?
Here’s another question:
Why did CC’s close at 1AM when other bars stay open longer?
I read CC’s were under penalty for some wrongdoing and were made to close early. Wonder what that’s all about!
Just Do It. Boycott ARuba. Just Do It.
#47 said “disgustedmom — to add another thing to your list, how about an investigation into Paulus smuggling in a cell phone to Joran when he was supposed to be isolated?”
***Yeah, and what about the Bible Joran got in jail the last time when he wasn’t supposed to have ANYTHING!
Bet there was a big ole hole cut inside for another cell phone to sneak in.
#44
In Aruba as well as the Netherlands you are entitled to drink as from 16 years old and hard liquor as from 18 years old. This is not as strictly enforced as in the US. The same goes for gambling which is legal as from 18 years old.
However, this is all considered to be minor offencens and punishable with fines only. The same goes for C&C.
And of course, Deepak cannot possibly be held responsible for what his friends are doing..
*****
Oh for Pete’s Sake! Doesn’t that just sum it all up? Aruba can’t be bothered with enforcing their own laws. So it’s a fine…then fine ‘em! And let them carry on having fun on their Irresponsible Island.
BTW, one of the boys with Deepak was not a friend, dude..unless you’re implying Satish was not there.
Which of Joran’s buddies tried to beat up Patrick?
Maybe these guys felt Patrick could be a threat to them too?
73: How could they be friends of Joran?
I thought all his close associates left Aruba.
Geoff fled to Holland.
Guido fled to Holland.
Gilian went to Bonaire?
Jan van der Straaten went to Bonaire?
Koen Gottenbos fled to Georgia and is now in Holland.
Sander fled to Georgia.
Wilhelm van Cromvoirt left for Holland.
Alex Gottenbos fled to Georgia.
Didn’t Dompig leave the Island.
Surely Patrick could probably take on Satish, Deepak, Freddy, Darwin, Anita and Jaime: all at the same time.
If that be the case then there are more pimps still flying under the radar now aren’t there?
I would have loved to be in Boston to meet Rob Smith. The question I would have asked him.
Did Jorge Pasquere tell Beth Twitty the truth that Natalee’s disappearance was a cover up and why did he leave Aruba for a lesser paying job in an area with a higher cost of living?
Maybe he will be there in NY and someone can ask him that question.
a sting op on VanderStratten is needed. What
does the fat-man have to say about the case ?
The real issue isn’t whether Natalee was drugged … most of us firmly believe that she was, but it might be impossible to prove one way or another at this late date.
The real issue is that Natalee went off in a car with J2K. And never re-appeared.
It seems clear that our own government can’t be bothered to look into the cover-up of a crime against an American citizen. Same in the Amy Bradley case.
It used to be that America would stand up against the world … now we won’t even take on Aruba.
Monkeys, it’s up to us! Support the boycott, and speak out … loudly, clearly, and often.
..1906…they’re are plenty of pimps left in Aruba….check out Aruban Who’s Who and look at the list of Joran witnesses…their are many ! And they are still there..!
They are all part of or support the ((edit))…I don’t think those that are mentioned as witnesses are close friends of Joran but are there for the cause…..up to date Joran is not welcome in Aruba neither is anyone for the Sloot family…!
The way Patrick is treated by some in Aruba is another chapter in his book….I hope he has names….!!!!
Hans needs to extradite Joran…you don’t have a credible judge that is not a personal friend of Paulus……!
@82
Don’t forget the time difference and for the record, I’m female. And no, I’m not in any way involved nor do I know people who are.
Anyway, you shouldn’t believe anything you read in the media. For example Dr. Phil.
Please provide me the link to the statement of (one of) the Kalpoes in which they say they had sex with natalee.
Just because scared monkeys doesn’t have the specific statement of Joran doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Natalee got in the car voluntarily. Her friends confirmed this. So why should this be deemed kidnapping and rape? Kissing and making out in the back seat of a car, sounds very consentual to me.
And nooooooooo that doesn’t mean that in any way she asked for what happened to her..whatever that is. Of course not.
I said it earlier; you are cherry picking from the information available. At one hand, you don’t believe anything Joran has told but if he is bragging about the evening to Patrick, you DO believe that he dumped her in the sea but you DON’T believe dat she died of natural causes…
Is it so hard to imagine that Natalee, while on vacation and drinking and partying, just wanted to have a good time with Joran without everyone shouting rape and that she is drugged?
And I bet there are people on aruba who know what happened. But until they speak out; there is just not enough prove to convict anyone.
Well, I want justice for Natalee as well. I hope that she didn’t suffer and that one day she will be found so her family can burry her. I’m not protecting anyone and I too think that probably, Joran was involved in her dissapearance in anyway.
But you all seem to have lost every balance and objectivity in this discussion. Apparently, you are all used to using this agressive and vindictive tone. It scares me. You are all very quick to judge and are not open one bit for a different view. You made up your mind. IMO that’s why jury trials are primitive and dangerous.
But boycott all you want of course. Aruba…the Netherlands..and why not Curacao, Bonaire, Saba, Statia, Sint Maarten and Suriname while your at it.
(and puuhhlease, if you read my post, read everything and not just the things you want to use against me…sigh..)
Holland loves to state the status aparte.
Yet, the Queen Bee can get involved in international matters. Natalee is obviously an international matter.
One Nightmare Eiland & Holland each pointing the finger at the other. What a joke. It is a nice game to play in the corruption of international drug trafficking and money laundering.
Strange that Holland accuses Patrick of drugs when we know drugs are legal there.
Holland your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Keep showing your collective ass. The whole world is watching.
Boycott One Nightmare Eiland.
Boycott the Drug Trafficking & Money Laundering Netherlands.
Maybe, the Queen Bee lines her pockets with gold from the tortured souls of conspiracy.
Defending a murderer.
Cover up & corruption.
I went to Holland, was drugged, raped and thrown into the ocean alive and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt.
vicki:
Flyers are on their way J.I.T for NY
true it may sound strange that in NL you are alowed to drink when at age 16 (btw. your also allowed to have sex at that age)…what was the age in the States that you can buy guns and rifles??
__________
SM: Buy? Or do you mean shoot? Big difference.
R
poor patrick,kicked ..out of a casino….
maybe he was giving kids marijuana….
in Aruba no way…
in holland no problem….
in Holland you have the marijuana tourist, they come in from germany,belgium by thousands everyday to smoke marijuana, you can even ask a policeman to lite up your marijuana…
this is real freedom…?
wanna go …?
____________
SM: You mean kicked out of the very casinos that let “UNDER AGE” joran van der Sloot gamble. Those casinos.
Isn’t Kindergarten starting soon?
if you haven’t already read this article….
http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/aruba10.htm
reality and amsterdam…… LOL!…the facts are in front of your lonely faces and the corruption and collusion is obvious.
it is not common protocol for any RESPONSIBLE police force to ask the parents of a missing child if that child has a history of seizures in the first 48 hours?
the fact is you losers can’t answer the basic questions that are in the same tone FACTS?
why did he lie in the beginning and obstruct justice? ah, it gave his daddy and his friends time to get rid of the body….
no matter how you want to paint it or paint patrick, joran was not coerced into that confession. marijuana is NOT a narcotic and it does and can NOT influence a person talking.
the proof is in the pudding…eat it!
#84 Patti: I don’t know. SM probably does. I’ve seen the picture of the truck there.
#100 – We say rape and drugged because:
Joran said early on he was committing sex acts on Natalee in the car while she went in and out of consciousness; Kalpoes confirmed. Going in and out of consciousness is not consensual sex.
Why should be believe that Natalee, who according to her medical doctor was a virgin a month prior to going to Aruba would decide to suddenly have voluntary sex with a boy she met hours earlier? That’s just crazy!
It was these boys practice to drug and rape – “we’ve done it 20 times before”. Also Hans Mos says there are chats on their computers about what they planned for American Tourists.
Natalee was fine (according to her friends) when she left CNC, minutes later we have Joran describing her as going in and out of consciousness in his early statements to Jug.
Medical experts say that what Joran describes (seizures) is the typical reaction of a person who has been overdosed on GHB. It is NOT the reaction of a person who has alcohol poisoning.
Beth was asked within days about Natalee’s medical history with seizures. And don’t give us that bull about that being a “normal” question by police. It’s NOT.
It isn’t just that SM doesn’t have Joran’s 05/31/2005 statement – it’s that apparently NO ONE has it. Listen to John Q. Kelly tape.
We do indeed believe that Joran mixes lies with truth – we do believe that he at least attempted to have sex with Natalee (and probably did); we do believe he was with Natalee when she lapsed into a coma; we believe that Joran didn’t know if she was dead or alive when he called for the disposal of her body. Liars always mix truth with fiction. The purpose of their lies is merely to re-arrange the truth so they don’t look at fault.
@ Amsterdam 020
Please get off the Bubble Gum. It makes people confess to crimes they didn’t commit and apparently makes you a gold medal contender in the mental gymnastics category.
Some people can handle it and some can’t… and please stay out of the Greenhouse, the nuts in there are screwing with your brain. I suggest the BlueBird and something a little less potent. : )
[...] sending tourists in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and lack of investigation and prosecution of Joran Van der Sloot? So by not prosecuting someone like Joran Van der Sloot who is an obvious and admitted [...]
SM: Buy? Or do you mean shoot? Big difference.
R
Is there a difference in age when you can buy or when you shoot??
reality
You will not get into a Dutch casino underaged, they check your ID card (Holland Casino is a state run enterprise), don’t know how this works in Aruba
@ #110 Dolf
Regarding age permitted to buy or have guns in the United States…
The laws vary from state to state.
There’s about 8 states that allow a juvenile (under 18) to have possession of a gun
There might be only 2 states that allow a juvenile to buy a gun: Alabama and Wyoming
These figures may be off a little but the majority of states ban children under the age of 18 from buying and/or possessing guns.
About casinos in Aruba, Yes, Aruba allows children not of legal age to enter a casino and gamble.
#100 Amsterdam….I’m open to a different view! What did you have in mind?
Amsterdam 020–
In case you’ve STILL not realized it, yes, almost everyone on this site has their mind made up about the Natalee case, and NO, no one is going to buy your weak opinions here, not on this forum. A good majority of these people have actually followed the case since the beginning. Maybe you just have a crush on Joran, I don’t know.
So coming on this forum trying to change people’s opinions or ‘open’ them up as you say, is pointless. Even though you mention Joran is probably involved, your views and justifications match those of his people’s side of the story. So of course, no one here is going to accept your opinion. So I suggest stop trying. Why do you even bother?? It’s not only useless, it is strange.
“it is not common protocol for any RESPONSIBLE police force to ask the parents of a missing child if that child has a history of seizures in the first 48 hours?”
“Beth was asked within days about Natalee’s medical history with seizures. And don’t give us that bull about that being a “normal” question by police. It’s NOT.”
Those are two 100% factually incorrect statements.
Soooo…no questions about health or medical conditions that they may suffer from are asked??
______________________
SM: Yoyo – the ONLY question asked regarding Natalee’s medical history was about seizures, that is NOT normal. (klaasend)
This is slightly off topic but I’ve been reading on Dr. Hodges website, and it’s just fascinating. You’ve probably already done so, but there are some really good articles to read about Natalee on his website –I suggest read all of them. I plan to buy the book.
Hodges theorizes that indeed Natalee’s body is discoverable. What I find interesting is that when the 2K brothers say “if they find the girl they will find the chit” – - Dr. Hodges’ idea is that Joran disposed of his shoes inside the crab trap with Natalee.
I know Minnesota Dad and Carpe Nocturm theorized that ‘the chit on the girl’ would be a skeletal wound, such as a gunshot. But maybe it’s more simple than that–such as a pair of shoes are in the crab trap. Maybe our imaginations run too wild, while the truth is much simpler: The boys take Natalee to gang rape her after drugging her(just the three of them)in a secluded spot on the island; she is being choked, vomits, and stops breathing after aspirating and soon dies in Kalpoes car; all three must dispose of the body, with help of Gottenboes’ boat and Daddy; she’s taken far out to sea, where she’ll be hard to find but she can be found, along with the evidence belonging to Joran. In the meantime, alibis are being falsely created throughout the night to put reasonable doubt into place.
Those are all Hodge’s ideas, of course: forensicthoughtprints.com
If you haven’t done so, I also suggest reading how he interprets the wine-throwing incident b/w Joran and De Vries. Joran, while guilty as sin, actually seems like more of a frail human being in this reading. Almost makes you have less hate towards him, to know that he is probably suffering terribly inside his own mind, and to remember he was just a scared, cowardly little boy when this happened and still is.
Reasons to invade Aruba & Holland.
They are involved in conspiracy to traffic drugs & launder money.
1. Iraq
2. Holland
3. One Nightmare Eiland
scared cowardly boy or manipulative lying murderer?
#115 bobbie…. Thinking if Paulus disposed of the body without Joran, then his shoes would not have been put in the cage???? Maybe or Maybe Not?
I mean if the shoes had traces of vomit with date rape drug on them then Joran might have said here dad my shoes have her DNA on them put them in the cage…that could have happened.
They are factual.
As klassend points out, they didnt ask about her medical history, they ONLY asked about seizures. THEN, to make it worse, they (the corrupt police) tried to say Natalee had a history of drug use, which she didn’t. To me, the police are also trying to cover their tracks in case the body is found because they know she was slipped a drug.
You know, I’m not so sure finding drugs in Natalee’s system would have given reason for those Judges to charge Joran with giving them to her. Unless she were alive and able to speak for herself they could and would always contend she took them voluntarily. Yet, even if she were alive and said she was drugged, I doubt even that would be believed by the Judges because Natalee would have had no proof.
So any reason to get rid of her body had to have been something that would be irrefutable evidence against a particular person.
If Joran’s shoes were found with the body, still the Judges would likely say anyone could have put them there to frame Joran. So it’s not the shoes.
What we have here is a cop force with leaders who are friends of Paulus who has the ability to make evidences disappear. Couple with that, a liar and a lying father who can’t be trusted to be telling the truth even if they are telling it….so it’s like Stalemate. And believe me, it’s not something brilliant as it happens all the time and has ever since life began!
#118: Like I said before, I am only repeating Dr. Hodge’s words (because I myself am just not so sure about any of the facts). But he seems to think that Joran was lying (again)in his tape about his friend “Daury” dumping the body alone. The doc thinks all boys plus others were present on that boat. If you think about it, it is kind of interesting that Joran says “he dumped her body like an old rag.” That makes you wonder if he saw it personally, to make that symbolic description. But then again, who really knows…we just need to find Nat’s body and we’ll see the chit for ourselves.
#117 – Both!!! And you can add spoiled brat with anger issues, narcissism, and uncontrollable impulses to that as well.
#120–if Natalee was brutally raped and choked to death by accident (one theory) with the sperm of three boys in her, then I think that would be enough evidence to put all three rapists in jail. How could they call help for Natalee after she died while in their ‘care’, with the evidence of their abuse causing death all over her?
“SM: Yoyo – the ONLY question asked regarding Natalee’s medical history was about seizures, that is NOT normal. (klaasend)”
I have not seen anybody state that was the “only” question asked…just that that particular question was asked. But I could have missed it.
Does anybody have a link to a source that this was the “only” medical question asked, nothing else? And does anybody have the list of all the questions asked that day in order to determine whether that particular question fits in context?
This is a missing adult so the police would need to know if the person may be in need of medical attention or if the person is mentally or physically impaired. Standard.
_________________________
SM: The only question asked was about seizures, nothing else:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/08/ng.01.html
HOLLOWAY: Well, you know, when you look at the facts, it`s pretty stunning that — and when you have an investigator who asks you that question within the first 48 hours, when we go back, there were no other medical questions. I mean, he didn`t say, Does Natalee have diabetes, or Does Natalee have, you know, other medical issues.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLLOWAY: That was the only one. And they only asked me once, and I told them no. But they asked Jug, asked him probably about a dozen times, and Jug had to come to me at least half a dozen sometimes, and I`d say, No. Why do they keep asking you that?
yoyoass,
are you back again. i thought you said you were leaving to give urine his ream job for the day.
#121 “if Natalee was brutally raped and choked to death by accident (one theory) with the sperm of three boys in her, then I think that would be enough evidence to put all three rapists in jail. How could they call help for Natalee after she died while in their ‘care’, with the evidence of their abuse causing death all over her?”
***
I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate here because we all know how hard the Judges etc seem to be trying to make any evidence or common sense seem irrelevant…
So let’s say Natalee was raped by all 3 boys. The Judges would say It could have been consensual.
If the argument was made that it was so far out of Natalee’s character and personal history for her to engage in mass sex…the Judges could say Maybe she changed her mind, First time for everyhing.
If Natalee had marks on her, even strangulation marks, the Judges could suggest perhaps Natalee liked it rough and also liked that chocking game that is so popular among teens these days.
If strangualtion could have been proven to be COD, the Judges could just say…since Joran says he left her on the beach after sex…that someone else did it.
The way these Judges play it there is always a reason why the truth might not be true even in the face of HARD CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
There was a very good reason for hiding Natalee. There has to be! And it has to be more important than the trouble they knew and still know is caused by hiding her.
If you want to know one thing I think it could be, here it is….
I think Natalee was tied up when she died. And I think she was in a position that made it obvious as the blood settled so after she died. And for that reason she had to be hidden.
disgustedmom….I think you are giving jvds & crew WAY TOO MUCH credit for them to even ponder the idea of Natalee’s blood settling. And what I mean by that is I don’t believe they are smart enough. Now, this is NOT to say they didn’t hide the body, just for a different reason(s). JMO of courst!
#125
I’m not giving anyone credit for thinking it up in advance. I was thinking more along the lines of it happened and then they were faced with it.
#126….Don’t get me wrong, I do respect what you are saying. I agree it’s a possibility that she was tied up, (although being drugged, which I strongly believe happened, there would be no need for restraining her). She may have been tied up just to be able to manuever her better. JMO opinion, again, that she was not only sexually attacked, but physically as well and that could have been visually proven. JVDS already had concerns (about HIMSELF of course) that his semen would be found on her. The only reason this case is unsolved is because of the cover-up and not because these perps out-smarted anyone. Regardless, it makes me SICK to no end.
Additionally, regarding the “found” material in the cage….I find it hard to believe that Natalee’s shirt was still on at all after her brutal attack. They needed to test the material for dna or something…maybe something she was wrapped in? The fact that it was the Aruban divers that found this material really sends up a red flag.
CAN ANY OF YOU COME UP WITH ONE PROOF OF ANY THING, SO WE CAN CLOSE AND FINISH THIS CASE OF A MISSINFG PERSON ?
CASE GONE COLD AGAIN LIKE A FISH…
SOON TO BE CLOSED..
IF ANY INVESTIGATOR OR EXPERTS HERE WORKING 24/7
CANT PROOF ANYTHING….AFTER ALMOST 3 YEARS,ITS ENOUGH….
IN MY OPINION YOU CAN GET ANSWERS IF YOU START AN INVESTIGATION IN ALABAMA, THE PARENTS,ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CHILD.
WHY WOULD YOU LET YOUR CHILD GO ALONE WITH IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE,NO ONE LOOKED AFTER NH.
NH WAS SUICIDAL..WHY BUY A FAT LIFE INSURANSE BEFORE TRIP??
WHY WOULD BETH COME WITH A POSTER,SAYING,HOOTIE
WE CAN STILL TALK,ABOUT WHAT…?
WHY NH WOULD NEVER GO HOME ?
NO INVESTIGATION ,NO SOLUTION….TIME TO CLOSE…
__________
SM: I think thos dost protect too much.
What do you honestly care that people are searching for a missing loved one? What concern is it to you? Who would interfere or want to hinder a parent trying to find the truth and to bring their child home.
You are on the side of of humanity that is as ugly as it gets.
Hey Reality #128:
I think it’s best if we all ignore you. Then maybe you will go away. Why do you even waste your time here, fighting with everyone? It’s pointless my friend.
I think you need a hug from your mother now.
out of touch with reality wrote on February 27th, 2008 6:23 am
CAN ANY OF YOU COME UP WITH ONE PROOF OF ANY THING, SO WE CAN CLOSE AND FINISH THIS CASE OF A MISSINFG PERSON ?
IF ANY INVESTIGATOR OR EXPERTS HERE WORKING 24/7
CANT PROOF ANYTHING….AFTER ALMOST 3 YEARS,ITS ENOUGH….
NO INVESTIGATION ,NO SOLUTION….TIME TO CLOSE…
*************************************************
funny thing about confessions are that they tend
to keep things going!! Your point about no investigation is the only thing you have ever
said that makes any sense because a corrupt investigation is the same as no investigation.
#70 nctripp……..the star chamber.the big difference is that in this movie young judge hardin has a conscience that is bothering him. aruban judges apparently have no consciences. let us pray that one day, someone’s conscience will get the best of them and they will have had enough and break the silence of this evil “club” and the domino effect will happen. the deck of cards will fall. we can only hope and pray.
128 reality……get down on your weak, cowardly knees and pray to God above that YOUR precious child does not come up missing one day. or worse, pray that YOUR young beautiful daughter (supposing you had one) did not come up raped, murdered and missing in a foreign land!! while you are down there on your knees pray that if she did, someone in that foreign land would do everything in their power to help you instead of hinder you to find her. pray to God above that YOU never have to go through the nightmare and the hell that the Holloways and Twiddys have gone through for the past 2 1/2 years along with the innocent hard-working aruban peoples. this case could have been solved from the very beginning if the aruban government had the balls to do what was right in the eyes of god and the whole world. it’s obvious that they do not live by the same rules that most of us do; duty, honor, ethics, integrity, sincerity, accountability, responsibility, dignity. It’s obvious to the whole world they have no balls or backbone!!They have no one to blame but themselves and deserve everything that happens to them (i.e. financially, politically, etc). YOU, sir/madam are a moron!!
RESPONSIBLITY STARTS WITH PARENTS AND END WITH PARENTS…………………………….
YOU SEE …
CASE WILL BE CLOSE IN JUNE ,LACK OF EVIDENCE AND PROOF…..ONLY SPECULATIONS AND RUMORS….
STILL A MISSING PERSONS CASE…UNDER INVESTIGATION….
ONLY TIME WILL TELLL….