Jossy Mansur Speaks Out on the Recent Joran Van der Sloot Wine Throwing Incident
The recent wine throwing incident by Joran Van der Sloot while on a Dutch TV show has provided all to see how the former suspect acts and behaves when he does not get his way. No one can dispute what Joran did nor make excuses for him. He showed the world that he cannot control his temper and is willing to lash out at people no matter what the consequence. As we have said in the past, if this is what Joran Van der Sloot is capable of in a public setting, imagine what he is capable of when no one is around and the cameras are not on.
(Click on pic for Video)
We recently asked Jossy Mansur, the Managing Editor of Diario, his opinions on Joran Van der Sloot’s actions in the wine throwing incident involving Peter de Vries. Jossy Mansur is his own words …
“The incident created by Joran against De Vries only comes to further typify his lack of control and the problem he has with anger management. The show had concluded, but the anger within him rose to dangerous heights and he threw a glass of wine in De Vries’ face. It was an expression of violence not unknown in his former behaviors!
The same could have happened with Natalee, if she had refused his sexual advances of whatever sort, but instead of wine he may have attacked her physically. It has happened before: the choller (homeless) on the bridge that he threw into the ocean; his bullying of younger kids at school; the beating he gave a younger brother that caused him to be put in psychological therapy; his violent verbal bout with the Kalpoes in the back seat of the van, and so many other instances that confirm the recent wine-throwing incident to fit perfectly within that pattern of behavior.”
Why do we not think that id Joran Van der Sloot had ever thrown wine in the face of Jossy Mansur, the outcome at the end of the video would have been quite a different story.
Posted January 18, 2008 by Scared Monkeys
Aruba, Bizarre, Joran Van der Sloot, Jossy Mansur, Missing Persons, Natalee Holloway, WTF | 52 comments
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52 Responses to “Jossy Mansur Speaks Out on the Recent Joran Van der Sloot Wine Throwing Incident”
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why is he drinking wine anyway?
Perhaps overlooked, not only does this demonstrate a lack of anger management, but also a lack of respect. If joran has this little respect for an elder male, it would suggest that he has less respect for peers his own age, and more than likley less respect for women.
Peter da wuss should of pressed charges against urin
now urin has another demented victory under his devious belt
Somehow it seems that Jossy knows far more than he has revealed so far. Hopefully, his life is not in danger because of what he may know. However, Aruba must know that if something ever happens to this kind hearted man, the boycott would be total. Remember, this man personally funded the garbage dump digging for Natalee’s body before the digging was shut down by suspicious fires, lack of bulldozers available on the island for this search and downright sabotage.
I think Josie knows what may have happened to Natalee. But, like you said MT, his life may be in danger. Of course that never stopped them before from killing someone who knew too much. Limbs could be severed and / or he could be set on fire and the Aruban officals would rule it suicide or overdose.
Thanks Carpe Noctem! This one is too good not to show again!
I especially like the 666 part!
Dr. Hodges just updated his journal entry with images of his trip and more detail:
It would not matter what Aruban officials rules it, nobody in the USA would believe anything they said. Keep safe and healthy, Jossy.
Jossy should be careful but that never stops him from speaking the truth. He is our friend and done much to help. Joran’s bad behavior is not a secret to anyone. The prison warden has know Joran since he was very young and knows of his bad temper. What’s it going to take to do something about this nut. If the proper action had been taken care of along time ago maybe Natalee would still be with us. I don’t think we can rely on Anita to anything, that’s her delicious sporter and Paulus just watches and laughs, he’s amused by Joran. I wish Peter would have pressed charges, that’s just one more time when Joran got away with it!
And what about college. What if Joran gets a hold of a gun, is there going to be another massacre on campus by something with severe mental problems. Wait until it’s too late!
Got that right MT! No one can believe anything coming from Aruba. It is still so insulting though. They truly think we are all stupid.
As for Joran and his temper, I think the only way to control his actions is to have someone take care of him if you know what I mean. If he is taken care of, he can’t hurt anyone anymore. It is extremely obvious no one, including his own parents intend to do anything to stop him.
There’s been a lot of speculation here and elsewhere that Joran’s problems go beyond the stuff that is summarized by the catchphrase of “anger issues” and other pop psychology.
What if, indeed, he is psychopathic? And, perhaps, some of the other “Pimps” as well.
If so, he might be capable of a lot worse things.
Joran has never had to pay the price for any of the terrible things he’s done. He is progressively going to get worse. He can’t get on with his life, not the way it is.
You got it right, Carpe!
As Jossy points out, Joran has become physical when angry long before Natalee set foot on Aruban soil, long before he was subjected to 2+ years worth of accusations and media attention, which is the latest excuse being used. The look on Joran’s face in Carpe’s link speaks volumes.
Wasn’t there also an incident where Joran nearly put a tourist through a plate glass window? This was before May of 2005.
#1 – It’s Holland. That’s what they do.
#2 – Exactly. That POS has no respect for anyone but thinks he deserves it from everyone.
#3 – Yep, he should bring assault charges.
#5 & #6 – I don’t think Jossy “knows” anything definitive anymore than we do, but I do believe he has a pretty good idea of exactly what happened based on police reports he saw in the beginning and his own investigation. Beth knows too. They are both very careful about what they say in the media for various reasons…I think personal safety being number one. It’s best not to reveal too many of your suspicions until you have evidence to back it up. Otherwise, nothing you say has any credibility.
#4 & #7 – Don’t ya just want to kick his teeth in? I can’t stand the smirk on his stupid face and would love to have a chance to wipe it off with a cast iron skillet.
#13 – Anita and Paulus have only themselves to blame for Joran’s behavior. Children need discipline from their parents, not friendship
I wonder why type of medication Anita is on. She is obviously still eating so she must be on some kind of anti-depressant. I’m thinking Xanax. That crap makes you care about nothing whatsoever. I imagine she is thinking, “So what if we owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorneys’ fees…so what if my delicious sporter is hated by the world for causing the disappearance of a lovely American girl…so what if my husband is involved in cover our son’s crimes…so what if they’re both perverts who are likely to commit more crimes against women…so what if I am a big fat pig with arm flaps big enough to fly. Xanax is okay. I am okay.”
Speaking about Anita. I looked closely at her picture of her face, and I am seriously wondering if she has been abused
Just to let you I am totally serious about this, I really think she is or has been abused.
Why do Paulus and Anita think they are being good parents by defending Joran’s behavior??
At some point, a responsible, loving parents admits their child needs help – both for the child’s sake as well as the protection of other people.
I heard Paulus’ reaction to the DeVries incident was to laugh. Maybe he was embarrassed, but his pattern of enabling delinquent behavior is counterproductive to Joran’s future!
Too many Europeans have become all about “appeasement”.
Appease Islamic extremism
Appease children – don’t discipline.
The VDS’s have just let Joran “do his thang” for so long that he has no boundries.
I fear for Joran. One of these days, if he’s not careful, he’s gonna “bully” the wrong hombre and he might end up paying… dearly.
Wonder if Paulus will be laughing then??
Anita doesn’t look “abused” to me, but she does look beaten down. Tired. Exhausted.
Joran has been a difficult son to raise. She loves her boys, but without sound discipline, and a husband willing to keep them in line, they’ve run ruckshot over her! They love their Mom, but they’ve worn her down in order to get their own way…
Joran is a large person with his temper how do we know? Alot of parents lie about their kids, because of the fear that it reflects on the parents, let alone the fear of being abused. I am in no way defending Anita. What I am saying that in light of the televised anger event, it made me wonder if indeed Anita is an abused woman, either by husband or son, or both.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no pity. I am wondering why a woman would put up with her son and husband, since they have no value for women.
Anita needs a good diet and some exercise. Her face is puffy because she is a heffer. Cover those arms Anita! Short sleeves or sleeveless is out for you.
It must be tough packing all those pounds in such a hot place. I used to live in New Orleans and fat people really struggle there. Poor Anita, it’s pretty hot in Aruba. It’s like she’s dragging around an elephant.
It must suck to have Joran for a son knowing he’s a rapist, murderer. Too bad for her. Life sucks!
16 – Miss U
It wouldn’t surprise me if that turned out to be true.
Joran and Paulus both have trouble keeping their
emotions in check. TES found that out the hard way!
Paulus got his li’l neon pink, floral print,
girly man panties tied up in a knot!
TES asked him if they could search the property,
and he went all cuckoo for the Cocoa Puffs. -j4n
A Big Smile, ‘Nita!!!
Anita is just the one sent out to make things look like peaches and cream when it’s really green eggs and ham. I remember her telling about Natalee on ABC and she was laughing when she said Joran put the girl on the beach. She didn’t even believe it when she told it. Paulus was starting to sweat again. Even Paulus called her the girl. They couldn’t even say Natalee’s name. One can imagine the conversations at home with no spotlight on. Going out of tv, saying Joran don’t drink, smoke or do drugs.. when he smokes, drinks and brags about beating the drug test in jail. Then she tells they searched the house and property twice,, Dompig says not at all, it was denied and the Judge said…noone asked for it to be searched.
The conversation with DeVries a few days ago.. Anita tells that Joran was seeing a psychiatrist only twice.. lol.. She took her son twice to see a psychiatrist because he was going to a casino gambling along with other reasons.. Yet, Paulus takes him out on the night of Natalee’s last night in Aruba to a casino underage drinking and gambling and the next night ok’s him to go do it again. cukooo…..Looks like those doctor visits really paid off huh?
because you were lying all the time.
Joran: No… That was not the reason why I visited the psychiatrist. I’ve been two times to a childrens psychiatrist but that was because we had some things going on within our family.
Anita: I can explain that as well… So you can hear it from my own mouth… Paul was in Holland for the Judges-training and I had to deal with three children in my own… And Joran as many seventeen year olds… I myself work with teens… And uh… he was not the easiest one. Besides that we had problems with… I had some problems with him… That he came home way to late… Uhm… I’m rather strict… Maybe even sometimes I was a little to strict… And at a certain point after talking about it with a friend of mine, maybe it’s good when we have some consults with a youth-psychiatrist. Because I just want that he has a goal in life… that he thinks well what he wants with his life and all this ‘going out’ I just think bad about that. And at that time he started playing poker in the casino and I don’t want my son being in the casino! So I contacted I youth-psychiatrist… He wasn’t 18 yet, he still was seventeen… He went there twice, that’s correct and we had one conlusive-conversation after that. And that was it… So it was really not just about lying…
Is this the other side of you? Did you
show this side to our 105 pound
petite sweetheart Natalee Ann?
Tell us the one where she fell out
of the car and hit her head!
Tell us the one about how she got
hit by the door of the car.
You CRACK me up, Boy!!!
Justice for Natalee!
Patti on January 24th, 2007 3:36 pm
I’m not sure how the cell phones play into anything that was going on. All I remember is that there was some speculation that if Natalee had tried to call someone on the island that it would have been difficult because the cell phones were all turn off.
Since then, it has come to my attention that it is possible to rent cell phones as part of your vacation package and that the students that did this were required to turn them in at the Hotel before leaving. So, at this point, I am not sure whether it was that someone told them to turn their cell phones off or to turn them in. If it had been the latter, I am not sure whether the phones were monitored by anyone after Natalee’s disappearance for any in-coming calls that could have been her trying to make contact with a friend. I just don’t know.
As far as blackmail… the only way that I could see anyone using those pictures as blackmail would be if they were asking for some kind of hush-money from the ones that were carrying out the cover up. It’s all speculative, but maybe that was what was being done… Perhaps this statement by Oduber was like you said, an indication that there would be no pay off and resulted in the pictures being released on the internet. All of these things are speculative, and, like I said there is no proof of any blackmail that I am aware of.
As far as the pictures being used as blackmail against the family or friends of Natalee, what good would pictures of decapitated bodies do in a case of blackmail against them. Wouldn’t it have been more useful to blackmail them with pictures of Natalee in good health, being held against her will, for ransom. How could the death of Natalee be used against anyone other than the person that is responsible for her death or the people responsible for the eventual cover-up?
The thing that I have always wondered about is the fact that after Joran led them to the Rocks, why, if Natalee was there, would they not recover her remains? They had stated that they had a confession and that on Saturday they were going to recover the body of Natalee. Could her body have been removed sometime between the time that Joran made his confession and their trip to the rocks? Or do we know, for sure that the painting of the rocks was done on that Saturday? Maybe the pictures that we see are pictures that were taken of the activity that took place before the police went with Joran to the rocks.
If the picture of Joran, in the back of the gray sedan was taken on their visit to the rocks, he looks too happy for a man that has just confessed to a murder and is there on a recovery mission. He doesn’t look scared. He looks like he is on a friendly Sunday drive. Or, perhaps, he is just so over-joyed with knowing that someone removed the body, thus making his confession a big joke. We all know his sense of humor. Like a true psychopath, he would take pleasure in knowing that he had just stumped the police and their investigation. He’d laugh, remember.
Remember, too, how upset he was when the Kalpoes didn’t change their story about driving up to the lighthouse before dropping Natalee and Joran off at the hotel. I think that he was being coached and protected by someone that had access to everything that he was telling the police and any mistakes that he made in the way of letting the truth come out. His confession was quickly taken care of.
Without the testimony of the person that took those pictures, we don’t really know anything… including pertanent information like exactly when those pictures were taken. If the police that were supposedly going to recover Natalee’s remains on Saturday were aware that the body would no longer be there, why would they execute the recovery mission in the first place? But, even more questionable is the fact that they didn’t go on their recovery mission as soon as the confession was made. That is not good police work, if you ask me.
The thing that Natalee’s family have in their favor is that there was a confession made. The fact that the remains were no longer there when they went to search does not erase the fact that Joran admitted to killing Natalee. AND if anything, the fact that her body wasn’t there is clear proof that there was somebody, probably Paulus, protecting Joran… even from himself.
As far as the pictures are concerned… all I’ve seen of them is what I see here. I am not aware of the order in which they were taken… but either way, they are a clear indication of a cover up.
Oduber hated the thing from the beginning. He didn’t like having Federal Agents everywhere and the press taking all those pictures. I think he had his own reasons for wanting the case of Natalee Holloway to be over… and, to me, that is unconscienable. Even, today, we have his ministers trying to keep his people from becoming interested in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It has become an excuse for everything that goes wrong on the island of Aruba. As an Amercian, I am concerned not only because of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, but also because of the blaming game that they have going on there, right now. I would imagine that Americans are being treated with indifference, right now, as if they are untrustworthy. Are they to blame? Not really, they only know as much as they are being told…. and Oduber with his ministers are the ones doing the talking.
One more point: Oduber wanted this whole thing to be over. It wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t responsible, in some way, of hiding the murder from the public to protect Aruba from the onslaught of a trial and all the publicity that comes with it.
Patti on January 12th, 2008 5:12 pm
If Natalee died that morning or night, who is at the Rocks later in June and why would it have been so important, that the film maker post it to the internet and ALE deny it happened?
Wasn’t it Natalee that the prime Minister was speaking of when he made his speach on June 10th, after the Holloways were told that there had been a confession and that ALE were in the process of recovering her body? Certainly, if you examine the body found at the rocks, it is hardly decomposed at all. It is very early in the morning… the heat had not set in. There is no slippage, discoloration or swelling. It is definately, female; and is too large to be a 10 year old Columbian boy.
I still think that she was bagged up and placed in the water basin. The furniture truck was used to deliver her back to the Van der Sloots; who, in the end, were the ones responsible for disposing of her.
It was at that point, also, that Paulus started saying directly to Joran, “No body, No crime” and Karin Janssen was quoted as saying, “You can’t just march in like a bunch of Cowboys!”
If the report that my friend heard on the radio is correct, Natalee was found in the cage in 125 feet of water with several bones missing; and, the remaining bones are being examined.
Proof of my suspisions are easily attained. There will be several small knive cuts in the bones and perhaps some charring. Any indications of cannibalism will be obvious.
Justice for Natalee
SM: How do you know when the aru-bay videos were taken? All we know for a fact is when they were uploaded to the aru-bay site. (klaasend)
Patti on January 15th, 2008 1:52 am
Yeah, I know… June 14?
What? 4-5 days later?
Sounds logical to me.
We love you, Jossy!
“so it wasn’t really just about lying” – right out of Anita’s own mouth. Anita – so you didn’t approve of gambling, yet your own husband allowed Joran to go out and participate in the poker contests anyway. By the way – Aruban authorities and casino establishments – do you make payments to minor adolescents who participate and win in your tournaments even though they supposedly are not allowed to gamble in Aruba until age 18?
Anita – what about your lying? Is that OK by your standards? What about Paulus’s lying? Is that OK? Am sure Joran has learned a valuable lesson is all this – it is OK to lie.
When my wife was growing up, there was this park they liked to go to that had a gorilla. The gorilla liked watermelon, and would gather all the seeds in his mouth and then when some unexpecting visitor walked by, he would shower them in seeds. He also would throw other things—things I should not mention here.
Does this story remind anyone of another “gorilla” we all know? I think it is a sloot gorilla.
I’ve been two times to a childrens psychiatrist but that was because we had some things going on within our family.
SOME THINGS GOING ON?
Charles Manson’s family had easier chit
to be dealin’ with…
YOUuuuuuu ARE A MEN-TAL CASE, NORTON.
A REALLLLL MEN-TAL CASE!
I see this Amigoe-article is discussed in the forum already but for the frontpage-posters: http://www.amigoe.com/english/
So Anita takes him to a shrink because Joran is in the casinos, then Paulus takes Joran to the casinos? WTF…..Anita…….how does a father/husband do that?????
The more and more I think about it…
they need to drop a few J-DAMs on that
floating shitball of an island. Napalm
the piss out of it until it looks something
like the moonscape, or Julia Renfro’s dirty
They both get roughly the same amount of
visitors per year.
That Amigoe aticle would be laughable…
if the Holloway family was not in so much
pain over the loss of Nat.
Aruba is one God awful toilet bowl! E.S.A.D.
Just read the Amigoe article,Julia Renfro wish you would give that information to the fbi and DEMAND a investagation,,,,so the world will know what kind kind of fools live in Aruba.
Personally, I think Young is reliving some kind of sexual abuse she suffered as a child and Castillo is hoping to make a cool million.
But… they’re right about Renfro,
I hear tale that she works for Charles Croes…
What was Charles Croes doing in the
vacinity of the Marriott
on May 30, at 3 a.m.
along with Joran,
Paulus and Steve Croes?
Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM!
ATA involvement from the very beginning.
What do these people have in common?
A festival that seeks out virgins?
Update from the persistence;
Friday, January 18, 2008
XIII. Stay the Course
SPECIAL UPDATE: Fri 18-Jan 2335 hrs
We would like to specifically address one comment left on the blog which likely represents the sentiments of many.
“You guys have been out there for quite a long time now… I was really hoping for results by now. I can’t help but begin to think she won’t be found” -Overwhelming_Sadness
Quoting John Silvetti- Fri 18-Jan 2300 hrs
“It is easy to lose heart if one confuses expectations with hopes and desires. The nature of a marine search, especially one in which the method and disposition of the item you are searching for is unknown, requires a painstakingly slow and methodical disqualification process. The logic is no different than trying to find your car keys. The methodology is: you look where you were recently. We look where it is believed to be, based on evidence or reports. When you and I do not locate what we are looking for in the most logical place, we move on to the next logical place. Ultimately, we both confirm the old saying, “It is always in the last place you look”.
Unknown topography and terrain, combined with large seas have slowed us down but it has not stopped us. We have surveyed and investigated a large area, disqualified most of it, and moved on to an even larger area. At times our progress has been exceedingly fast and slow at other times. We do however, “STAY THE COURSE”….PERSISTENCE.
Our hopes and desires also were to find Natalee before Christmas so we could help bring closure to the Holloway family as our gift to them. Then, we could return home to our families to enjoy the holiday season and hug our children a little tighter… but, it was not meant to be that easy…and we understand.
Our prayers are with you, John Silvetti.
It takes great courage to stay
the course and not give up.
The name of your mission:
Persistence, says it all.
Justice for Natalee
I think there was only one reason they were in the casino:
To show Natalee to Paulus, for his approval.
And, then, the wheels went into motion.
Shango says, “The gamblers know”.
And, in my opinion, it was the dealer
that made the appointment and
“Dealt” the cards… Guido
Also, I don’t think that Anita is abused.
But, rather, the abuser.
Her face is hard and scarred…
I guess it comes with the territory of kidnapping
and holding someone against their will.
What was it that she said in reference to Natalee?
She wished that she had sent her home…
And when questioned by the Media about Nat,
her younger son said, “Yeah, Mom, remember
when we cut off her head in the bathtub?”
Anita is not a victim of abuse,
but, rather a co-conspirator
in the abuse of others.
The only question I have is this:
How many others did she do this to?
You know I’m not like that!
Quote from Dr. Hodges’ website:
Regarding the perps…..
“I can assure you that they will suffer immeasurable unconscious guilt. They will also—unquestionably but unconsciously—inflict punishment on themselves of one type or another. They will continue to be prone to confessing. And as Deepak demonstrated in his email to his former American surrogate grandmother, Betty, they’ll harbor hidden suicidal wishes.”
This may explain Paulus’ unusual weight gain over the last two years. He is guilty and miserable. Joran is happy go lucky and feels nothing about what he has done either to Natalee, her family, or even his own family. Every day the Sloot parents live with the realization that together they created a monster. It is ruining their lives.
They long for the day they can put this “case” behind themselves. They crave a normalcy they will never be granted. Even if their own demons stop chasing them, America will never forget and they will pay with constant and continual reminders until their death. In many ways, this is more painful for them than the jail punishment Joran averted. This is ongoing and never ending.
Good luck sleeping at night for the rest of your sorry lives!
Paulus, strap on that 2×4, Anita is waiting for you!
Read this please. If you want to be a serieus website you should cover EVERY angle of this case!
SM: Hey All ,,, dont be an ass … Don’t give us that if we want to be a serious web sit crap about this case crap you TROLL FOOL.
An opinion is like your head, or is that your Ass … everybody has one. It is up to serious people to weed the truth from insanity and ASW … code for attention seeking prostitutes!
I do not have to go to the insane asylum and ask lifers there if I want to know the truth. This is despicable and will come back to bite Aruba in its collective A$$. And I use dollar signs as a metaphor.
Second time my post has disappeared before i was done, so I’ll be brief. I don’t give a rats arse if Anita is, was or will be abused. We need to focus on Natalee who was abused by Anita’s son. Gee Anita how does it feel – still trying to cover for the delicious sporter that feeds girls date rape drugs and o.d. one??? You must feel so proud. Did your delicious sporter tell you all the intimates he incurred with Natalee – when she was out of it and couldn’t defend herself? Of course he did – he told you and then you had the audacity to tell Greta and Beth, only with the twist (according to your pervert son) that Natalee was a willing participant. This is my suggestion – Anita why don’t you and Paulus beat each other senseless every night until one of you is successful? You won’t be missed. Too bad you can’t include your beloved eldest son but darn he is in the motherland. How paranoid is he becoming? Tremendously I hope.
Good points! That if Anita had Joran get ‘help’ for his gambling, why would Paulus go with Joran voluntarily to let Joran gamble that night when he was still underage to do so?
In that casino video I see Natalee talking to that older man/Paulus person and pointing (while talking to him) toward Joran, as if to say, You mean that boy?
This has been in my mind for a long time. If I read that scene correctly, why would that man point out Joran to Natalee? And I wonder if that man invited Natalee somewhere and mentioned that Joran could bring her? If so…then my mind wanders here:
At CC’s Joran didn’t seem to want to do anything but catch up with Natalee just in time before the bar closed. He was not interested in dancing or socializing with her or anyone, hence did he come there to pick Natalee up? to deliver her somewhere and that was his only reason for going to CCs?
Now back to that Paulus man and the possible conversation he was having with Natalee at the casino table….teenage girls would be giggling like mad if an old geezer had tried to talk to a young girl; they would have giggled at what that man was saying to Natalee. Yet no one says anything about the conversation between them. I find this odd, and I wonder if what was being talked about was something the other girls didn’t want to expose if they thought Natalee might end up ok…such as:
Deepak says in his email to Betty that the girl Joran was helping win back money had asked for help because she had lost 360 dollars of her ‘father’s money’. In Dave’s book he speaks about the 500 dollars he had given Natalee for graduation and how he had made her promise not to spend in on her trip to Aruba that he was against. Ergo, if Natalee had lost some of that money Dave gave her, she would be quite determined to win it back before going home. And even as that video does not show Natalee gambling and even as Joran says he helped win money back for ‘one of the girls’ (and I say ‘one of’ because he can’t even get straight who that was for even as Deepak tells Betty it was Natalee) who’s to say his help was actually given at that time? His help could have been given to Natalee some other time.
OK, now stay with me in my speculation….
What if that Paulus man was asking why Natalee was not gambling-even though he probably already knew, and she said she’d lost too much and he mentioned to her some other casino where she might have better luck and pointed out Joran as one who could get her in or take her there later when the table opened up? It is true that different casinos have different limits on gambling such that this man may have been steering Natalee toward some other casino (or some underground game)where it might be quicker due to higher stakes allowed to win back her ‘father’s money’. And let’s say, for sake of my argument here, that when the girls invited Joran to CC’s that night it was really just a response to where Joran might pick Natalee up later on, and she says she’d be at CC’s.
Now Joran says CC’s is boring on Sunday’s and some of the MB kids support that comment was made, so I’m going to address that here too. What if he was just making idle conversation once they mentioned he could pick Natalee up there that night. What if his remarks had nothing to do with going there to socialize with the crowd? The MBs mention they found it odd Joran would show up there after he’d said it was boring….could they be giving a subtle clue that they knew Joran wasn’t coming there to party, but to pick Natalee up and take her gambling to get her money back? I’m sure they would protect their friend and not mention Natalee had lost Dave’s gift money to her. That’s how most teens hang…so…
Now we have Joran saying when he and Natalee walked toward the beach SHE walked through the chair area of the Marriot beach area. SHE! As if he were following her somewhere she wanted to go. And it seems if he were following her, she was walking faster as if in a hurry to meet a deadline, such as the time the game was to begin. (notice Joran had spoken of being late to a game and not able to get in, so you know it happens)
And we have 2K dropping Joran and Natalee off and saying they did not provide him a ride home and then all that confusion over how Joran did finally get home….SO…..was Paulus gambling there (at the Marriot? In a room, not a casino?) already and if he was the man at the HI casino talking to Natalee, did she feel safe in going there since Paulus was a judge? And did Paulus give Joran a ride home? And was Natalee with them or not?
Sorry this is so long and jumps around….stay with my headspace….I’m trying to bring several tangents together for sense.
So let’s say Natalee went gambling at this better place Paulus invited her to where the stakes were higher so she might stand a better chance of winning back Dave’s money. But let’s say she only lost more! Perhaps more than she had. (as was probably the plan?)
They will not let you leave the island until all your bills are paid. So if Natalee owed money what would happen to her? She would be held….now enter that cop dude asking “how much money do you have”. People say this was because people on the street will tell you things for money. But that’s not sensible at this point because there should not have been anything for the street people to know, unless it was something sinister which then the street people might be bribed to talk about gambling debt payoffs or something.
But the family was immediately put on the track of rape, drugs and all that, so the gambling aspect- if real- was diverted from attention. They would not want the world to know for sure gambling is crooked on Aruba probably with the approval and ‘on the take’ of some prominent persons.
Now, let’s go to the real Paulus who came back from Holland on the 29th, after having several long (I think one is about 8 hours) layovers in the USA. Paulus should have been beat! Yet he goes out gambling with Joran. And he came home before Anita did, which is kinda weird too. What does this imply? To me, perhaps it implies Natalee had lost money earlier in the week and the casino network knew she wanted to win it back before leaving so they knew they had a panicked young teen/sucker to get more money from.
It is Joran’s fan club who insist the Twitty’s were rich. They are not really, but why would Joran’s fan club say that? Perhaps Natalee’s family financial situation was checked out to see how much they could get from Natalee gambling? However, they mixed her up with Madison? And thought their prey had a rich family they could drain?
Jumping again….Natalee was confused with Madison by Joran. Did those who may have checked out the family’s income situation inadvertently check out the Whatley’s by mistake…who are very wealthy it is said…..and therefore let Natalee get in a bigger debt situation than the Twitty’s could handle? Joran also at one point says of Natalee that he knew her face but did not know her name. Did Joran get the name mixed up and thought he was sending a rich girl, Madison, to the high stakes poker game?
(To further add possible credence to my Madison mistaken identity theory, early on there was internet chatter of Madison being in trouble, ransom associated with it, that did not turn out to be true. Why Madison all the time? )
What does all this suggest? It suggests Natalee may have gone to some underground gambling game to win back money and got in more trouble (as it was planned by the players she would do). It suggests that the reason Joran is allowed to gamble underage all over the place where tourists hang out and gamble (and often accuse Joran of cheating) is so he can set up young (rich) tourists who then if they can’t pay their bill until daddies hand over the needed cash….perhaps have to work it off if daddy can’t pay up? In something like sex or maid service to the person she owed money to? It suggests Paulus came home early to seal the deal as perhaps sponsor for Natalee being allowed into an underground game that Joran had found a prey for. A game they knew would result in Natalee being sold or at the very least held until she was able to find the funds to pay her bill, and sold after she was unable to. A game Joran was not allowed to go into, so Paulus had to do it for him?
Beth came to the island with 2 things on her mind; that Natalee had been kidnapped and that she was in trouble and should not fear calling Beth as Beth would help her and it would all be OK. Could Beth have been told by some MB that Natalee lost Dave’s money and was trying to get it back so no one would think poorly of her? Is this why Dave was not immediately told Natalee was missing so he could get on the private jet too and not have to wait several days to get to Aruba by commercial flight? Did this, though, change direction for Beth when Joran began to talk of sexcapades? Joran saying things about the adventure that he didn’t need to say? Anita and Paulus being fine with Joran talking such and Anita even repeating it as it if were cool? There was so much unnecessary detail in the sex story, and so much change in it too in that Natalee was passed out, not passed out, drunk, not drunk, didn’t do anything, did stuff, etc. Clearly Joran is painting a visual of something that did NOT happen. In fact, his lies about everything about that night make anything possible along those lines only, but should that exclude any other reality?
Of course, we could say the rape etc DID happen, just not as Joran tells it, but this long piece is meant to explore another possibility as to what happened to Natalee that night. That she went gambling to win back the money Dave gave her and she got in deeper trouble after which she was sold to buy her freedom eventually.
If this were true, could Natalee ever be released? Joran says several times he thinks Natalee might be dead BY NOW. It’s easy to assume the most obvious, that he just thinks that after all this time she must be since she’s not turned up alive or having been seen by anyone. But it could also mean that if she were sold into captivity he thinks she may have been killed because of all the attention and she had become a liability.
But I don’t think Natalee would be a liability just yet. If she were in captivity no doubt she has been made into a drug junkie and is still making someone plenty of money, and no doubt those who bought her did it legally per their own countries guidelines. In some countries one of those guidelines is that only the family can buy the ‘slave’ back. But first you would have to know who had her.
If this scenario were explored, perhaps Natalee could be rescued. The money could even be brokered through laundering type channels and Natalee could just be dropped off to find her way home and no one would charged with a crime. But that would assume her captors had a heart. Maybe they do. Maybe they don’t. But if someone does have her, they would be watching…so …..
instead of Beth being so strong all the time, maybe she should show how she really feels and cry from her soul on TV more. That is SO heart wrenching! Someone who loves their own mother might take pity on Beth and give her daughter back, somehow.
Al, your’e right ..
Disgusted Mom (#47) … I’m glad that you’re not among those who close their minds to ideas that the media haven’t championed. The longer this case goes on, as we see from the latest thread, the more hysterical and, frankly, incomprehensible Aruba’s actions and lies become.
There must be something dark going on.
Another idea: suppose that Joran had arranged for some of his cronies to show up in official garb and to tell Natalee (who we believe had been drugged) that she was “drunk and disorderly,” and that they were taking her into protective custody?
We know that nobody on Aruba would lift a finger to help out this “incapacitated” American tourist.
“Serves her right,” would be their attitude.
And there goes Natalee, into the darkness ….
Re #49 “Another idea: suppose that Joran had arranged for some of his cronies to show up in official garb and to tell Natalee (who we believe had been drugged) that she was “drunk and disorderly,” and that they were taking her into protective custody?”
Or to jail!
I have thought about that as well. Perhaps that is where the HI ‘security guard’ mention originated from.
there is truth in the details. I believe that. I do think culprits make mention of certain details as preemptive cover in case something was seen.
And you know what else? About people faking being cops/guards? How did Deepak know about the man dressed in black that was seen by one of the MB girls trying to get in the door of their room? He mentioned it somewhere early on. How did he know about it?
I am not disbelieving Natalee may have been handed over for sale in some fashion. After all, Joran says he ‘left her’. My gambling theory is only one possibility…which btw I forgot to add this in my original post…
Joran said Natalee wanted to see sharks. That might mean loan sharks. And Paulus may have been that loan shark for all anyone knows. I’m sure he’s quite used to paying Joran’s gambling debts.
Richard, I’d love to email with you about the various possibilities of human trafficking. Talking about it on here, coversations start but get lost with new topics. If you’d like, email me @ email@example.com
Paulus & Anita,
Great parenting skills!
Mikko- its hardly fair to presume dutch people “appease” everything since you absoutly nothing about how their society works. We have far many cases of kids kidnapping killing and shooting others in school..
#1- In other countries, ecpesially in europe wine is drunk during discussions. They dont liqour up everywhere as americans presume they do