RSSAruba: More attention on sexual abuse of handicaps
The following story from Amigoe is just plain disturbing, “More attention on sexual abuse of handicaps.” Obviously this issue would not be brought up if there was not a problem with this that currently existed. Its not just the handicapped they may want to pay attention to, how about all women on Aruba, natives and tourists?
Sexual abuse of minors and mentally handicaps will receive more attention. That is the result of an assignment in Aruba that Corine Melis finished recently. Melis is police inspector with the National Police Corps Services in the Netherlands.
With Posters in Papiamento and Dutch, the attention of the population is fixed on the duties of the Youth- and Vice Squad. The sexual abuse of minors and mentally handicaps is still a taboo on the island.
Surprise, surprise … the weakest and most vulnerable, the mentally handicapped, are sexually abused. It sounds very much like other scenarios where the weakest and most vulnerable among groups of tourists are chosen as well. What is most amazing is the fact that Aruba claims they had no one qualified to interrogate the mentally handicapped. Seems they have no one able to deal with the non-mentally handicapped either.
There was a need for Melis’ instructions, because the Police Corps in Aruba had no expertise in-house for the interrogation of mentally handicaps.
Before she joined the Police Corps, she was youth leader in an institution for mentally handicaps. Once with the police, she became youth- and vice detective.
Read the full story at Amigoe, March 12, 2007
More attention on sexual abuse of handicaps
ORANJESTAD – Sexual abuse of minors and mentally handicaps will receive more attention. That is the result of an assignment in Aruba that Corine Melis finished recently. Melis is police inspector with the National Police Corps Services in the Netherlands.
Melis has put guidelines and proposals for improvement of the interrogation of mentally handicaps on paper for employees of the Youth- and Vice Squad in Balashi. The studio where the interrogations take place is refurnished and made customer-friendly.
With Posters in Papiamento and Dutch, the attention of the population is fixed on the duties of the Youth- and Vice Squad. The sexual abuse of minors and mentally handicaps is still a taboo on the island. The program Cerca Dika on TeleAruba will pay attention to this subject. There was a need for Melis’ instructions, because the Police Corps in Aruba had no expertise in-house for the interrogation of mentally handicaps.
Before she joined the Police Corps, she was youth leader in an institution for mentally handicaps. Once with the police, she became youth- and vice detective.
She was on vacation in Aruba last year and stayed with a friend that, as psychologist, was committed to the Foundation for Mentally Handicaps (SVGA). There was a case of sexual abuse of a mentally handicapped minor right in that period of time. Due to her personal interest, she got in contact with Eric Lake, Youth- and Vice Squad inspector in Aruba and later also with chief superintendent of police Peter de Witte. Melis received the go-ahead for a work assignment in January, which she could use pretty good for an internal study in the Netherlands. The instructions that are now on paper are totally in accordance with the guidelines of the Public Prosecutor.
Tuyo Werleman of SVGA said that he is very pleased with the result of this assignment. Not only the police received instructions, also the employees of SVGA received usable information from Melis on recognizing customers’ behaviour problems that derive from sexual abuse. Inspector Lake was also pleased with the results. Melis said that now that more attention is paid to the possibility to report sexual abuse, the department can expect a bigger number of complaints. The department might have to consider increasing her staff in the future.
Posted March 12, 2007 by Scared Monkeys Amigoe, Aruba, Bizarre, Child Welfare, Crime, Natalee Holloway | 112 comments |
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112 Responses to “Aruba: More attention on sexual abuse of handicaps”
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i hope melis wasn’t in charge of the case of the gang-raped l6 yr. old girl who had to be sent off the island for protection. the people who raped her took phone-pics and sent them to their friends and who knows where from there. of course, it’s aruba, and the rapists weren’t arrested, just politely asked not to put the photos on the internet. strange place, the happy island. just makes you wonder what they’re on to be so happy.
dennisintn
Now this is just the worst pathetic horrible thing anyone can do.Its as bad as drugging a girl…this has really become SATANS Island. When was it last sept when they gang raped the 16 year old in school and they are just now trying to do something about that???but to do this to handicapped ppl is really perverted.
This is a sick place/and these people have NO RIGHT to share the air and food that we use.The ABUSE of the handicapped is WRONG.WHAT KIND OF SICK PLACE IS THIS,I can’t say more because I will banished if I say how I feel about this and what should be done.Bunch of a** holes
Doesn’t this sentence just say it all: “The sexual abuse of minors and mentally handicaps is still a taboo on the island.”
It makes it sound like this is news or something unusual like an old Sunday Blue Law or something. Imagine that, Aruba still has sexual abuse of minors and the handicap on the books as unlawful.
Of course since sexual abuse of a 18 year old girl from America named Natalee Holloway wasn’t illegal, I can see why they might have to remind people that it’s still illegal to sexually abuse some of their own.
Where is the ACLU?
This is still taboo, like someday it won’t be?
A number of kids from Ma.go to aruba now.Why don’t we ask Sen Kennedy how he feels ,about this.I know how he feels and it is something he would not tolerate.We ran a Gov. out in our state over this,and he deserved it.It is more than taboo,it is an abomination.
It’s yet another point to be raised in Boston.
What’s really amazing is that every time you think we’ve seen Aruba plunge to its lowest depths yet … it defies our understanding and comes out as even more vile.
Of course, this isn’t going to motivate the American Society of Travel Agents to recommend against travel to Aruba, or anything radical like that … NO WAY.
Be a bully … go to Aruba. They’re your kind of people.
Taboo? Taboo? Not a felony? Let’s try this one more time. TABOO?
If they had no one qualified to question the mentally handicapped, then how did Boeti become Joe Tacopina’s star witness in the court of public opinion. Isn’t a drug addict living mostly under a tree considered mentally handicapped?
We have folkways,mores and the rule of law.These same rules apply in aruba,but they are not followed.It seems one thing after another in this island of the damned
Inspector Melis’ initiative deserves admiration. She is willing to dedicate her time and effort to develop a program that aims to educate the population as a means to preserve the security of the “the weakest and most vulnerable”. That is truly commendable.
It’s not too important, I guess, but if you do a search for “spring break,” you may find a Boston Globe article from Sunday wherein they refer to the Natalee Holloway “incident.” Hard to imagine a less appropriate, or more offensive, word; sounds like something from Aruba.
My response follows. If you dig up the article and read it, you might feel like blasting the reporter too.
To: eyahr@globe.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 8:30:04 AM
Subject: I read your Spring Break safety story … Natalee Holloway tragedy is an “incident”?
>
Your article on spring break safety gives several paragraphs to such tremendous issues as “Body Awareness Week.” Meanwhile, your only reference to the Natalee Holloway case is to dismiss it as an “incident.”
>
I always thought that the journalistic profession was in large part concerned with the proper use of words. The relative priorities expressed in this article, which is supposedly concerned with student safety, suggest
that some reappraisal is in order.
>
Those people who have followed the Natalee Holloway case closely would use other words than “incident” to describe it. Here are a few that I think appropriate: “tragedy,” “horror,” “criminal cover-up” and
“outrage.”
>
Perhaps nothing more can be expected from The Boston Globe. After all, your travel show coming up in two weeks features Aruba Tourism Authority as a major sponsor. Is your newspaper going to be cautioning people about
Aruba? Or would that interfere with the money flow?
>
I look forward to your public retraction of the word “incident” in relation to Natalee’s case.
>
>
maaaan…..these clowns will say anything “still a taboo” to avoid calling it was it is and thats A CRIME.
Saying that its still a taboo conveys that
1. At no time was it ever considered a crime, its just
something you shouldn’t do
2. Implies that at one time is was not a taboo
3. Implies a debate of the abuse was had and by a slim
margin was deemed to still be *A Taboo*.
Hence the need for a reminder.
Richard, sent an e-mail to them also. Not as well written as yours. But they will get the point
The biggest crime in Aruba seems to be admitting there is a crime. Where oh where did you go Steve Cohen?.. still waiting on you to look at that casino tape and let Rita know.. almost a year now… or was he “left on the beach” tooooo..
Even if they have no one “qualified” to interview handicapped people, they certainly have enough experienced in it as that is how half of their population could be described.
Taboo is a very old word used mostly in island society – why don’t they describe it as it is – A CRIME.
Sexual abuse of minors and the handicapped is a crime in all civilised countries. Need I say more?
It seems to be an island pastime to prey on the young and weaker members of their society. Even better if they can prey on someone vulnerable, or who has been made vulnerable by illegal means, outside their perverted and male dominated community. Women are considered inferior, along with their young and handicapped. Why would anyone even want to visit there?
Since ARUBBISH refuses to admit it has a problem with crimes, such as Natalee Holloway’s disappearance, illegal drug and human trafficking, prostitution rings, allowing minors to gamble and drink in Carlos n Charlie’s/the Holiday Inn, etc., it’s very doubtful that anything will be done or taken seriously in the reported cases of sexual abuse against anyone, including the mentally handicapped and minors. No doubt, the corrupt Aruban/Dutch authorities will look the other way, just like they’ve done so many times in the past. What happened to interviewing the victim versus interrogating them? Victims are not CRIMINALS!
BOYCOTT ARUBA, the third world, drug infested, anything goes ‘One Happy Island’!!!
The sexual abuse of minors and mentally handicaps is still a taboo on the island. The department might have to consider increasing her staff in the future.
Maybe murder will someday be a crime on Aruba.
Leave the damn children alone you perverts.
Please perverts get out of the bed with the retarded people you know better than that its taaaabbbbooooo!
it just gets worse and worse by the day in Aruba. Perhaps after all of the evil and disgraceful occurances are bought out into the open…..they won’t advertise Aruba as being “paradise”.
Hey Tibrogargan!
Ya made me laugh with “half the population is handicapped” much more so than the truely mentally challenged of Aruba!
I never thought i’d say this but Aruba really is STUCK ON STUPID!~ lol
Bob (#20) … They will continue to advertise Aruba as being paradise as long as they can get away with it.
Our job is to make sure that they can’t.
Puuuhlease! This Aruba bashing is getting old!
You really have no idea what you’re talking about. Get a job and/or life!
amsterdam020- are we getting to you…boo hoo..”pity us we are being picked on”….do you need some cheese with that whine???? clean up your demented Island and give us back Natalee and your Island can rot for all we care….try in your pee brain to understand…WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY!!!!
OH NO! I was hoping you were still on holiday…permanently!
What a shame that these people would do that to some innocent person who can’t do for themselves! To be raped and just have to lay there and not be able to fight back! God please have mercy for these people!
#10. I agree. Perhaps Corine Melis can make a difference.
The word taboo, is used to depict an act as “socially” unacceptable. I don’t see anything wrong with the use of the word.
It is a fact that in the Bahamas and throughout the Caribbean there has been a sort of acceptance to the acts that many of us would consider “taboo” and “criminal”. However, where the sexual exploitation of boys and girls has been widely ignored, perhaps it is a start to make a public declaration that it is, in fact, taboo.
The World Bank, as well as Unicef, have held summits to try to make people aware of the problems facing the youth in the Caribbean. The Caribbean has the second largest population of children infected with AIDS.
In a country where the sexual expoitation of the young, the handicapped or the weak is largely accepted, “socially”, it is not surprising that, for the most part, these crimes against the innocent goes unreported.
http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=135&a=9766
21st August
Incest, The World’s Greatest Secret
Why? I have come to the conclusion that incest is one the world’s greatest, and most painful secrets. Often victims of incest feel that they cannot share their dark, excruciating secret with anyone. This may be because of shame, guilt, or threat from the perpetrator. On the other hand, some perpetrators are also shameful and afraid to reach out for help because they might be aware that their actions are criminal. So what do these people do? In their private world, behind the shadow of locked doors, they search the Internet. In a way like no other generation before was capable of doing, they secretly seek answers to their dilemma and a way out of this deep, dark dungeon, incest.
I believe that incestuous relationships might be as common in some villages and towns as adult, heterosexual promiscuous relationships. Incest has become an unspoken cultural tradition in many families and town. No one asks for it. No one discusses it. No one complains about it. It is just surreptitiously carried out. The perpetrators move toward their prey subtly, winning the trust and confidence of the unsuspecting innocent children before they strike with their venomous darts that leave the victims mesmerized or stunned.
In the Bahamas and the Caribbean, incest is very common, and the majority of the population denies that it is a problem, or that it really exists at all. Meanwhile, thousands of our children are being ruined for life. But many who deny it publicly are themselves victims of incest. In some villages or towns it has become a silent expectation, and an unforgiving, sinful requirement by fathers from their daughters. Even in our country, many little girls are shared as playmates between older brothers, cousins, uncles, and fathers, and step-fathers.
A FAMILY CULTURE
In some family cultures, a daughter having sex with dad is treated as a requirement and introduction to the real world of adult life. Some dads say that they have to teach their daughters how to “do it” so they can be good to their husbands.
Every medical and social agency in our country is dealing with this dilemma. Yet many of our officials and community leaders are denying that fact. What will it take to put an end to this painful conundrum? When will we ever admit as a nation that incest is destroying our family life and the social and mental health of our children? The crime of incest goes way back into generations in some Bahamian and Caribbean families. Here is a real-life scenario: Thirty years ago a husband and wife gave birth to a daughter. When the daughter reached age eleven, the father began having sexual relationship with her. At age thirteen this daughter bore a daughter for her father. That daughter (granddaughter) fifteen years later also got pregnant for the same father (her grandfather) and bore a baby girl. When this baby girl, now the great grand child, reached the age of eighteen, she also bore a child, this time for the younger brother of the grand father. Thus, making it three generations of incestuous relationships. What a sad story!
Too many of our families are treating their little girls, and sometimes boys, like sex toys. They are raped, emotionally and physically abused, and disrespected. Many of these incest victims eventually become socially dysfunctional. The healthy development of their emotional and psychological lives is shot-lived. As teenagers, they may be known as the black sheep of the family. In order to cope, they become defiant, rebellious, and delinquent. Fathers who have sexual relationships with their daughters are often controlling and obsessive. The outside world believes that they are obviously disobedient children, and never knows about the real, dark family secret. Of course, who would suspect her respected father who has a prominent position in the church and community!
LET’S ACCEPT THE TRUTH
Dear reader, let’s not put our heads in the sand. We do have a very serious incest problem in our country. It is only being allowed to continue because we have given it permission to do so. It is certainly the Bahamian enigma. Because of our silence, many children are being damaged emotionally and physically. Many infants born from incestuous relationships are developmentally emotionally and/or physically disabled. This places an added strain on the family system and the public health system. Let’s speak up now. Parents, stop the painful acts now. Seek help from a professional to assist in the healing process. If you are a victim of incest, then I implore you to seek help today. Call the child abuse hotline. Family members, report incest to the proper authorities. Doing so will preserve the health of your family and our nation. Join us on Monday, August 28, 2006 at 7:30 p.m. for the Sexual Abuse Prevention & Healing Seminar for People in Power at Grant’s Town Seventh-day Adventist Church, Wellington Street. Barrington Brennen is a marriage and family therapist. Send comments and questions to question@soencouragement.org or call 242 323 8772 or write P.O. Box N- 896, Nassau, The Bahamas. Or visit http://www.soencouragement.org
The Bahama Journal – Bahamas News Online Edition
Copyright Jones Communications Ltd. ©2005 – Nassau, Bahamas.
Website designed and hosted by Bahamabrands Web Services.
When you consider how incest is considered socially acceptable in their culture, it is not surprising that a whole island of people would cover over the death of an 18-year old beauty; send a 16-year old off the island; or in the case of a minister who sexually abused a woman, laugh and publicly humiliate her. That is the mind set of many on Aruba.
I pray for justice, in the case of Natalee Holloway; and for freedom from a society that holds its’ boys and girls, the weak and the handicapped, and many of their men and women; captive, to sexual exploitation.
Justice for Natalee
Boycott Aruba
Amsterdam 020 – Shut the f*ck up, reject! Don’t make me board a plane and come my arse over there to biotch slap your ugly self
Can you keep a secret? We are getting ready to launch an invasion on Aruba, then we are coming after you…
Tourist BEWARE…don’t vacation in ARUBBISH or the Neverlands! You may not come back…
Amsterdam 020:
Funny that you would squack at the printing of this subject matter considering all that child pornography that your country refuses to prosecute:
___________________________
Cases
In July 1998, a vigilante anti-pedophile group exposed an international child pornography ring. The ring was found to be operating in the Netherlands, Germany, the United States, Israel and Russia. Around 9,000 images were found in the Zandvoort apartment of a formerly convicted pedophile, Gerrie Ulrich, who was murdered in Italy, possibly by his business partner and partner in the child pornography ring. The cruelty to the children in the pornography stunned many officials familiar with the sexual exploitation of children. Some of the pornography was made with babies that appeared to be no more than 12 to 15 months old. A child psychiatrist said that the children must have been sedated because they showed no reaction to the torture to which they were subjected. One film, titled “Oh Daddy,” shows balding middle-aged men raping 5 and 8-year old girls. One girl appeared so lifeless she may have been dead. (AFP, 16 July 1998)
_____________________________
Policy and Law
The Dutch newspaper, NCR Handelsblad, printed the addresses of child pornography Internet sites found during the investigation of an international child pornography ring on the front page of its evening edition. (“Dutch see no easy control of child porn on Internet,” Scotsman, 23 July 1998)
_____________________________
Official Response and Action:
Despite efforts to investigate an international child pornography ring based in the Netherlands, there has still been no concerted united effort to banish child pornography. The Dutch justice ministry blamed foreign-based Internet servers for continuing to display child pornography on the web. (“Dutch see no easy control of child porn on Internet,” Scotsman, 23 July 1998)
Although almost all of the 15 European Union member states seek stronger measures to combat pornography involving children, the Netherlands opposed Belgium’s proposal to make it a criminal offense to possess such material for “personal ends”. So the possession of pornographic videos of children will no longer be regarded in Europe as constitution sexual exploitation and will be exempt from all sanctions. (Marie-Victoire Louis, “Legalising Pimping, Dutch Style,” Le Monde Diplomatique, 8 March 1997)
Patti: Incest? Never mind! I get it… I actually enjoy coming to this board to see what you and a few others write. Sorry iffn my outburst last week came across as blanket criticism… That was wrong of me…Later
Roy: You are always welcome.
You know, I’m sure, that there is a time to protest and a
time to remain silent.
God Bless the efforts of those of us that take the time and
make the effort to let the public know their outrage over
the injustice in Aruba. It is our God given right to
choose between right and wrong; unfortunately, many people
in powerful positions, in Aruba, chose the wrong path.
But, it is also our right, as Americans, to stand up and be
counted, to protest or to picket where there is corruption.
I read your comments and I, too, was appauled that you, of
all people, would try to belittle someone for exercising
their rights that you and so many others have fought to
preserve. I salute your service, appreciate your
sacrifices and beg for your understanding and support…
Respectfully,
Patti – incest and now post #32-You gotta be kidding. Snippets from 10yr old articles? Link to this http://tinyurl.com/2votu4 to get the real peak into which countries are or are not doing anything about child pornography. From the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children.
And ditto SL-Gloria #10.
Thank you, Yo Yo!
Now… ask yourself this:
What good are laws if the crimes go unreported?
The article about the Bahamas and the Caribbean is only
months old. The article written in the Amigoe was written
only yesterday…. and I’m sure that you’re not here to
defend the track record of the Netherlands when it comes
to child pornography, are you?
The Dutch say they see no easy control of Internet porn.
Judging from their acceptance of a legal Pedophiles’ Party, as reported here on SM some time ago, one wonders if they are even likely to try.
LOL! Where do you (Patti) find the time to look up almost 10 year old posts on the internet?
Anyways, don’t get me wrong; I do think that the Aruban police and/or procecutors office probably made mistakes and I do think that Joran knows more about the disapperance of Natalee.
However (and I hope that in real life you all are more balanced in your opinions..)that does not mean that the whole justice/legal/political system of Aruba and/or The Netherlands is corrupt, not functioning or not civilised.
{{edit}}
____________
SM: No personal attacks (klaasend)
Yo Yo: I’ve come to respect your opinions even when I’m in disagreement but Patti makes a valid point, “What good are laws when crimes go unreported….Whether the info is recent or 10 yrs old, it would all appear good. In the case of JVS, he lied…no getting around that….and with every opportunity he has had to correct the record, he has lied some more…..He’s been made out to be “The boy who cried Wolf” and he has no one to blame but himself and his father. Pertinent, maybe not, but certainly relevant.
Amsterdam 020:
Excuse me…
Would you call recovering a body of a missing girl
and not giving it to her parents a mistake or would
that be considered an intentional act, or is it more
likely to be called a crime?
Please, take the time to reveiw the things that took
place on June 9 through June 14, 2005 and, then, let
me know what you think.
I saw another one of those
laughable Aruba commercials
last night. The one where they
sing the word ARUBA in such an
odd way, you can’t figure out
what they are saying until it
flashes across the screen at the
end.
When it was over…
I mentioned it in a phone call to my mother later,
that I had seen it.
Here is what she said to me, verbatim:
“You mean the place that let the Dutch boy
murder Natalee Holloway and get away with it?
Didn’t they catch that little shit yet? What is
wrong with these people?”
ARUBA’s reputation has been ATOM BLASTED!
Death to the murdering, raping, serial lying
Kalpoes and Van der Sloots. They are pigs.
I don’t know how they continue to
live with their stink. -J4N
Aruba’s reputation just keeps getting worse and worse. Set that island adrift tourists of the world!!
“In a country where the sexual exploitation of the young, the handicapped or the weak is largely accepted, “socially”, it is not surprising that, for the most part, these crimes against the innocent goes unreported.” Patti, FYI, the caribbean is not a country. Now if you are referring to Aruba, which I am assuming you are since you mentioned handicapped, I see no mention of it in the article – it’s almost exclusively dealing with the Bahamas. Is the Bahamas what you meant by “country” and you just made a mistake?
Do you not realize when you are talking “culture of the caribbean”, you are talking about Spanish/British/French/Dutch/Danish/Swedish/Portuguese cultures(West Indies)that are separated by an ocean? Hello. By your “majority” reasoning, the culture that accepts it is Spanish then, since that would be about 25-30million people in the caribbean(the others total up to about 12mill). So the question to you is, what does the spanish’s cultural acceptance of incest have to do with dutch aruba?
I’m more worried about the country below the US that shares 2000miles of border and the one north that shares 5000, not the one 8000 miles away with an ocean in between.
Wow! I’m edited. That’s scary! Talk about censorship…Apparently anyone here can say or write whatever they want about – in this case – Aruba and insulting, agressive and threatening comments (with no content) like Susie’s (31) are clearly no problem but when I recommend some education and I comment on some ‘quirks’ of the FABULOUS United States of America and oops, your president, it is deleted.
A sad day for Scared Monkeys.
———–
Amsterdam – Think of it the other way. You have come into our house and have been verbally abusive. We have been gracious hosts and allowed disagreement but we have children and people who are not used to such rude people so sometimes we have to ask you to tone it down. Now I know you think that you have the right to go anywhere and say anything you like, but in our house all we ask is that you are polite about it.
If that is too hard to do, then we will ask you to leave. So don’t take it as a badge of honor on your behalf that your rude behavior was slowed down, most people tend to be embarrassed when that happens…
Tom
Paul VDS, Joran VDS & the 2 Kalpoe Brothers are hiding the truth……….. hold them all responsible to the fullest extent of whatever the hell law enforcement agency this is up to now! Let’s be honest here….the American Justice system has had it’s share of screw-ups, too !
Never forget….JUSTICE FOR NATALEE !
So Tom, I have to be polite about your ‘house’ but apparently nobody has to be polite or even civilised about mine or somebody elses.
By writing down the examples of arguments against the United States I didn’t try to be rude, I just showed how unsubstantiated, unbalanced, prejudiced and uneducated some of the comments about Aruba, its residents and The Netherlands can be. That’s why I put the
I just don’t understand why people who don’t know all ins and outs (as neither do I) of this sad and tragic case, deliberately try to destroy Aruba and (the breadwinning of) its residents.
Like G&ML just said; the American Justice system has had its share of screw-ups too. As probably most of the justice systems of countries around the world.
We are talking about an Island that just brushed a missing girls LIFE under the rug…#46. I dont care what any place does, but when they COVER UP a crime, then they are fair play to be picked apart.We dont give a rats behind if you all want to smoke crack all day, just give us back Natalee, dont KILL anymore of our tourists and you all can go to he$$ for all I care. Im sick and tired of trying to be NICE and feel so sorry for your ppl. If you’ll had any kind of heart or feelings than maybe we would care.. but telling Beth to shut up or you will be made to shut up doesnt help or has everyone on your Island forgotten that. We will not SHUT UP. We will be Natalees voice until JUSTICE is served.
Patti: I agree with you fully about the events between 9-14 June 2005…They are definitely the most perplexing and telling wrt the cover-up….And sadly, the most disturbing. But events prior to that time suggest extensive involvement by Joran and his father in their participation in the cover-up….unless I’m misinterpreting something….After being fingered by the media and Oduber’s decision to not accept the events being portrayed, who would have been the appropriate authority in Aruba for anyone to have reported a crime…..I’m sure by that stage, his dad would have been well aware that elements of the ALE, prosecutors office, and people in gov’t were conspiring against him. I guess I’m just a bit curious as to the Van Der Sloot’s intentions. Is it to sew up a conspiratorial rift or something else…..Amsterdam asks that we be balanced in our opinions and I think that is fair, events prior to 9 Jun suggest even broader numbers of conspirators to include JVS and Dad…Wasn’t till after those dates that JM started stuttering, Merryweather turned, C Croes wishes he had never heard of Natalee, Emman slips into a political void of silence, Dompig can’t make up his mind…on and on… What was any reasonable person suppose to think of Aruba.
Yo Yo: You’re either getting smarter or you’re letting Mom and Dad do your typing….JK…. Your spelling and grammar have improved 100 fold over the last several months.
Amsterdam: As for Holland, I gathered that Beth put alot of hope in the Dutch… I always thought their efforts were more show than true action however I may be and hope that I am wrong….I often read Rammstein’s posts and find them extremely lacking in hope for any suitable outcome so I avoid conversing with the guy..That’s not a knock on his honesty, I just see his actions like that of an arbiter instead of someone trying to get to the truth….I remember the info Grande supplied wrt the implied activities and unbelievable associations at the Dutch embassy in Plainview. I look at the possibly illegal conduits for trafficing, who controls them, and how one cannot think, Has Beth’s hope and trust in the Dutch been misplaced?
There is good and bad people in America, Holland, and Aruba….I ask myself all the time… Can good people overcome the bad… and can bad people do good? I pray so!
Roy, some time earlier you mentioned the “fakes” who were planning to stand up for Natalee in Boston.
We’re still planning, and today we got the OK from the Massachusetts Port Authority, the agency which controls the policing of the area where the Boston Globe Travel Show will be held on the March 23-25 weekend.
Yesterday the city of Boston said no permit was needed for a group of our expected size, but it’s good to be getting approval from everyone involved, so to speak.
And we’re getting some new members.
So people, here’s the best … maybe the only … chance actually to stand up and make your presence count.
We can show Aruba that we WILL NOT BE QUIET, that we WILL NOT GO AWAY, and that we WILL NOT FORGET.
No justice for Natalee? No tourists for Aruba.
Join us in Boston! Stand up for Natalee!
Yo Yo:
First of all, incest has nothing to do with ethnic background… anyone, of any natiionality, can be a victim of incest. If you are trying to make me into a racist, I assure you, you are barking up the wrong tree. And, please, if you’re going to post my comments, you should post them in their entirety:
When you consider how incest is considered socially acceptable in their culture, it is not surprising that a whole island of people would cover over the death of an 18-year old beauty; send a 16-year old off the island; or in the case of a minister who sexually abused a woman, laugh and publicly humiliate her. That is the mind set of many on Aruba.
I pray for justice, in the case of Natalee Holloway; and for freedom from a society that holds its’ boys and girls, the weak and the handicapped, and many of their men and women; captive, to sexual exploitation.
Justice for Natalee
Boycott Aruba
You’re good at research. Why don’t you look up the history of the many ways in which the Netherlands and its’ son, Aruba, sexually exploit their boys and girls, as well as, children from other countries. By the way, did you ever figure out the extent of the injuries inflicted upon that little “boy” whose body was recovered on June 11? We have some pictures around here if that would be of any help to you.
Your turn… Go for it!
Roy:
From the looks of it, there was corruption from the very beginning. It appears that Joran was being coached by his father, who had a very well-versed knowledge of law. He had many friends, collegues that assisted him. But, I suppose Joran’s confession must have been such a turn of events that many reacted before consulting with their superiors. How telling that as soon as Oduber returned to Aruba, he went public with his opinion that the death of Natalee Ann Holloway would effect the island’s tourism. Funny he didn’t have the presense of mind to realize that the cover-up of her death, the confession and the ultimate recovery of her body would be much worse for the island.
Isn’t it amazing that there are so many bad people around? People that would have us believe that it was only our imagination that this occured, while Beth and her family were, even, notified of the confession and the recovery of the body by our own F.B.I.; and, while the media had recieved information of the events from several different sources? Nearly 18 months later, we are still having to ward off all the “doubting Thomas’” that want everyone to believe that nothing bad happened in Aruba… and that nothing bad EVER happens on Aruba.
It certainly makes one wonder, exactly, what the police uncovered when they found Natalee, that would make a Prime Minister fearful of reprisal.
Reprisal: The forcible seizure of an enemy’s goods or subjects in retaliation for injuries inflicted.
Reprisal: The practice of using political or military force without actually resorting to war.
Reprisal: Retaliation for an injury with the intent of inflicting at least as much injury in return.
Boycott Aruba
When did Amsterdam start posting again or did someone else take up his/her flag?
11: That was too kind; some have said all the hysteria was caused by “THE MEDIA CIRCUS”.
Keep writing on your circulating currancy ……………
“BOYCOTT ARUBA, REMEMBER NATALEE”
To 10061906,
How are you doing? Are you feeling better? Getting around now?
Jerry
Hi Jerry: After nine hour surgery performed by three surgeons; I really am feeling a lot better. So much that I asked my head surgeon for approval to return to work after six weeks; which I just did.
I guess heaven didn’t want me yet and hell didn’t have any openings.
I have been reading all the posts since I got out and still no closure for the Holloways and Twittys.
I guess when you have the keys to the castle (Aruba) you can control what goes on by who and what is said….
I guess its good to be the king(s)….
Aruba remember Louis XIV (?) and Marie Antoinette.
I still have not changed my opinion since I first posted this almost a year ago….
There have been many times I have been so frustrated that this case has not been solved; that I felt like giving up. But I made a promise to Natalee’s soul that I would stay in it for the long haul until either she or her remains were brought back to Alabama.
So a promised made is one to be kept.
And it is not because Natalee is a white, well to do teenager that pushes me for closure.
It is because the island of Aruba is so corrupt and they have basically given the Twitty and Holloway families and the world the bird. They have attempted to sweep the name of Natalee Ann Holloway off the face of the earth. The have prostituted themselves into a law of convenience and allowed the perpetrators to run the island. All the while the ads have read one safe and happy island. Aruba is a fake, a farce and a human disgrace. It is a rim of an ancient volcano. Its beaches are fake. The sand had to be imported. It is only 18 or more inches deep. What does Aruba have to offer? Nothing that I am or will ever be interested. Caves? Kentucky has over three hundred miles of underground caves. They are called the Monmouth Caverns. What else does it offer to tourists? Come visit the deserted oil refinery, the natural bridge that collapsed last September but is still advertised, the landfill, the water purification plant, the incinerator plant, the corrupt law offices and police stations, the casinos that are fixed to take your money or perhaps the hotel rooms that have video cameras in the guest rooms.
Aruba is doomed and in time will be only a memory in a Beach Boys song.
Roman numerals are tricky…that is XVI not XIV
Patti #50 – You didn’t read the article you linked to, did you? Hahaha. Again, when you say “When you consider how incest is considered socially acceptable in their culture”, what culture? And if Dutch, where did you get that? Not from your article.
Now you say “Beth and her family were, even, notified of the confession and the recovery of the body by our own F.B.I”. Bet ya can’t back up a single word. The FBI never notified the family of a confession or a recovery. If true, why would that not be in either wrongful death suit or why would the FBI have “seeking info” on their website? You state things unproven as absolutes – it’s hilarious!!
_________________
SM: Natalee’s family WAS told by the FBI that she most certainly dead. (klaasend)
Hey 10061906!
You have battled & came out the other side feeling well enough to work…..that is wonderful news! I also have felt like Aruba’s been giving the family and the US the finger. Then to advertize here for more tourist’s is maddening, outragious… the mentality of these people is like nothing i’ve ever seen.
Evil is evil. It just is. It’s dark and cold and slimy and offers no comfort. It’s bare feet on sharp coral with no retreat. It’s a hot night with no wind and no water to cool one’s soul. It’s a tall overweight young man with a dark, cold, slimy soul, and blood stained feet.
Well I had guessed that the events that day resulted in Joran and Paulus changing Joran’s confession…..never his confession changing those events and how they may have impacted the cover up…. I had it backwards…. Clears some things up but gotta think on it…Thx
Klaasend 58: Was not the wording from the FBI “most likely was dead”; not most certainly dead.
Certainly means definitely, without doubt seeing the evidence; etc.
This would mean that whoever FBI agent made the statement knows beyond a doubt Natalee was dead by actually seeing Natalee’s body. I don’t think this happened. If the FBI witnessed her body then why wasn’t it given up at that point or a description of the condition of the body made?
Most likely means probably, could be, without evidence, a hunch etc. This conclusion wss made because of the time factor involved without any evidence or a body.
I don’t want to get caught up in symantics; however there is a tremendous difference in these two words and the meanings.
________________
SM: Yes, I stand corrected. The FBI would not have told the familly that without good reason to believe it (klaasend)
Waterboy Jerry:
In the words of Robot:
YOU ROCK!
.
YoYo:
BLAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Wrong answer…
.
Roy:
I think Oduber may have “squashed” it…
How sad for Aruba… more taxes heading their way
Oh well, they get the drums a drummin’
and the hips a swayin’ …
…they’re happy!!!
Boycott!
This is where the misunderstanding probably occured….
“PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was-was-began the grieving process.
You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice.
And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.
SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee’s family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive.
How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?”
The following is a transcript of an interview done with Paul Reynolds, Natalee Holloways uncle about the discussion that the F.B.I. had with Beth Twitty on June 10, 1995.
_____________________________
With me now is Natalee’s uncle Paul Reynolds.
Paul, thank you so much for being with us.
I don’t want to talk about this Dutch, Aruban newspaper report. What I do want to talk about is what you and the family were told by authorities. Did they ever tell you, did any government authorities ever tell you that there was a confession in this case regarding Natalee?
PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was-was-began the grieving process.
You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice.
And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.
SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee’s family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive.
How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?
REYNOLDS: I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did.
At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn’t want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there’s no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s as if they are being hidden or taken away.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, you said-talked about June the 10th. That’s when you all were told that the confession had been made, and you said that the family actually started a grieving process. What did the family do?
REYNOLDS: You know, grieving is-it’s a difficult process. We were all notified. We exchanged phone calls, making sure everyone in the family was notified. I even had to tell my children, very upsetting to them, very upsetting to all of us.
SCARBOROUGH: Wait, Paul. Are you telling me, back on June the 10th, you told your children, based on the confession of one of these-these punks that took Natalee away from the bar, that Natalee was dead? This was over a month ago. You had to break it to your family, the entire family, Natalee’s entire family, because of the confessions, knew that she was dead, and yet here we are over a month later, and they are still claiming they don’t have enough evidence to nail these guys?
REYNOLDS: That’s absolutely correct.
You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it’s just-it’s a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time.
SCARBOROUGH: And, you know, Paul, despite that, a lot of legal experts that I have been talking to over the past 24, 48 hours are saying they believe it is possible that van der Sloot may walk.
When-when this top-secret process-and, of course, now maybe we understand why the process is so top-secret, because there’s obviously so much favoritism down in Aruba, that they want to be able to bury confessions, if they need to do that. They want to be able to play favorites. You have got a police chief report, from all reports, from what we understand, very, very close.
Government officials have told me, as well as you, that this police chief is best friends with the van der Sloots. I mean, and yet, we are hearing on Thursday-there’s the police chief right there. We are hearing on Thursday by a lot of people that van der Sloot may walk because of the top-secret hearing that was held today.
Is there anything you all can do about it if they decide to let him go?
REYNOLDS: Well, we feel there are numerous problems with the investigation that question his credibility, you know, the-not taking the suspects into custody, the disappearing confessions, refusal to use the assistance of the FBI, not working with EquuSearch, keeping them from the van der Sloot property.
There are so many questions. We feel that the authorities need to bring in an outside investigation to make sure and bring back credibility to this investigation, this process, and let us know what happened.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Thank you so much, Paul. We are going to stay with you, obviously, over the next few days, see what happens. And I will tell you what. You are exactly right. We need answers. There’s a miscarriage of justice that’s going on in Aruba right now. The investigation has been a sham from day one. We could list 1,000 things that they did wrong.
But the main thing is, it smacks of favoritism. I told you that the first week. I am still sticking with it. Favoritism in Aruba is basically protecting Natalee-whoever abducted Natalee and, unfortunately, what we are hearing from the family, possibly murdered Natalee.
_____________________________
While we can split hairs on the exact wording, there is no doubt that a mother knows when she has just been notified that her daughter is no longer with us.
.
And when Joran confessed, did he not take them to Arashi beach or the Marriot Beach or none at all? I’m just curious if our little deviant’s scam is in his confession or to where he led the police? I remember the story of one of the suspects breaking down, crying, what-have you, but the image in my head is of this critter laughing his butt off.
Ohhhh WOOPS!
10061906:
I must have been writting my comment at the same time that
you were posting yours. However, there are numerous other
reports that, specifically, say that the police and invest-
gators were in the process of recovering the body of
Natalee Ann Holloway.
Incidently, the photos that were taken of the rock area,
where it was reported that the police recovered the body of
a 10-year old boy, were downloaded to the internet on June
12, 2005. Included in those pictures are pictures of Joran
Van der Sloot at the scene, sitting, in a police car. The
“rocks” are located at the north end of the island, near the
lighthouse.
While the story of that night, according to Joran, has changed numerous times; Deepak and Satish Kalpoe have
remained firm with their statements regarding their trip
to the Lighthouse in the early morning hours of May 30th.
Sorry…If you were to say he took them to the wrong beach, it would make sense….actually, perfect sense. I trust the scene at the rocks happened and like you say it created a turn of events….So why take the boy out on a field trip if his confession alone did that….Why risk putting him on the scene if they were just gonna cover up for him and his Dad. That makes no sense to me unless they were gonna film the perpetrators (VP) themselves and use Joran themselves to create a turn of events….which would make Joran’s pity-filled confession a hoax. And how long after did those tapes hit the air…2 days you say…. It’s all JMO and I am tired and probably way off the scope so I think I’ll call it quits for a few days… I think I’m becoming one of those Conspiracy Nuts and I’m probably one of the few people that think LHO did it in 63….It’s off to Savannah for St Patty’s weekend… Hope yours is great! Thx for the clarity.
10061906, glad that you’re feeling better, and welcome back.
Your strong comments about Aruba are right on the mark. While the average Aruban person probably is no better or worse than anyone else, a criminal culture dominates the island.
It’s too bad that we can’t get the actual words of the FBI and have the agent tell us what he said, and based on what.
Of course, the FBI doesn’t do that. But whatever the FBI knows, or believes it knows, is based on what Aruba HAS LET IT KNOW. Joran did say that he would take them to the body, apparently … but did he? We don’t know.
How come there’s no mention about Bondia’s article yesterday (thursday) about Jorg’s speach on Paulus’ declaration about the Ministerio Publico on Amigoe? According to the article, Paulus was changing colors quite a bit, got a little hot under the seat.
_________________
SM: We were waiting on at least a partial translation. I’m sure you will see it on the front page today. (klaasend)
To Roy: When you get back… LHO did it but not alone.
Inside info was required about the parade route that was not all in the newspaper. Look to the grassy knoll.
Roy:
I suppose that he had to lead them to the body… show them
where it was. That’s what makes sense to me. Perhaps when
they saw the body was when they knew that they didn’t have
just an ordinary drug rape on their hands, but one that also
included torture and possibly mutilation. I’m sure, had it
been just an ordinary drugging that resulted in an overdose,
they would have acted accordingly. My guess is that they
found that something really, really bad happened; something
that would really put the island’s reputation at risk. I
often wonder, too, was the body of the boy really Natalee,
or were there other victims there, as well?
The statements made that day by the Prime Minister Oduber
is most telling…
Have a Nice Holiday!
66. Roy
Associated Press
June 12, 2005
Natalee Holloway’s family rushed late Friday to California lighthouse, an old stone beacon beside ARISHA BEACH Arisha where three young men arrested in the case said they took the 18-year-old in the early hours of May 30, after a night of dancing and drinking. “I knew she wasn’t there,” said her step-uncle Tom “Jar” Twitty, who went to the lighthouse after the statement from Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig. Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men arrested in the case admitted “something bad happened” to Holloway and was leading police to the scene.
Patti,
Does this make any sense? Suppose, just suppose that Joran confessed on or about June 10 to murdering Natalee. He told them everything. Then in steps Paulus (whom Joran may have also implicated) and files legal papers to suppress the confession on some legal grounds (i.e. Joran’s rights as a juvenile were violated), and his judge friends back him up.
Big problem, Joran has told them where Natalee’s body is, and has even shown them where she is, but the authorities cannot use any of it because it has been ruled inadmissible in court. They have Natalee’s body, but what can they do?
It is decided that the evidence must be sealed [like some U.S. Marines (and others) that are still under gag orders from Viet Nam], and Natalee’s body is put into storage somewhere until someone can figure out what to do.
Let your mind drift even further into the “what if” and suppose that Paulus through some twisted form not so legal, legal moves had Natalee’s body release to him. I’m wondering if this is just exactly what happen. I have no doubt from viewing the rock videos that he was there, and Joran was with him.
Jerry
Waterboy (Jerry):
You know as much as I do. I can’t say for sure. I’m going on the assumption that Prime Minister Oduber had a lot to do with the suppression of the information about the crime because of the statements that he made that day. Remember, as soon as the confession was obtained, Oduber flew back to the island. Almost immediately, upon his briefing, he made the statement that the death of Natalee Holloway would not be good for tourism in Aruba… I think he may have been quoted making that statement several times.
Personally, I think that he was the one that, ultimately, called the shots. I believe that he and Paulus are associates and that may have had something to do with his stance; but as far as the government, actually, giving Paulus possession of the body, I doubt it. He may have paid to have the body disposed of, but it is unlikely, in my opinion, that they released the body to him.
As far as your legal question, about having the confession squashed, I am not familiar with the laws there. In the U.S. it would have been a matter for the court to rule if the confession would be entered as evidence in a trial, but charges would still be filed against him.
The thing that most bothers me is that there was probably evidence all over the body that could have nailed the perpetator without the confession, but, they chose to dispose of it without retrieving evidence… or atleast, that’s what I think. What would they want with her body, other than for the suppression of evidence, or a blanketted denial of a crime and her subsequent death.
I think that you and many other monkeys are right, tourism and the money derived from it was first on their list. And Oduber has the nerve to hug Beth? I support the boycott, but deep inside I think that there should be charges drawn against all the ones that obstructed justice… ALL of them.
Boycott Aruba
P.S. I hope her body is in storage. She needs to be returned to her family and the ones that loved her.
Justice for Natalee
P.S.
Why do you ask?
Jerry and Patti:
Here is some food for thought from the time Natalee got into Deepak’s taxicab.
Why go to the CA lighthouse at all? It was locked, accordingly to a patrol guard who stated such. He didn’t see them. It is sort of a lover’s lane. But if you want sex you would have to use your car. There are no other buildings around also there are no trees or bushes to hide behind. So what is left is the hard sandy ground. I don’t think so. Also exclude the Honda. Joran at 6 foot five inches in the back seat. I don’t think so. No witnesses have come forward to state that they saw either of the four at the lighthouse or anywhere else for that matter.
The ground is too hard to bury a body and you can’t leave it exposed because of wild animals.
I would think they would have taken Natalee to a place that was secluded, accessible, familiar and very comfortable so they could take advantage of her. How about Joran’s apartment? His brothers and mother are away. His father was probably still at the casino. Besides it was stated that Freddie and Koen where at Joran’s that night. Why would Joran leave them to go to C and C’s pick up a tourist and have sex with her at some remote location?
(Koen’s father would not and still not allow the police to interrogate him)
Also: do you think the other pimps would let Joran, Deepak and Satish have a gangbang and not include them? I don’t think so. Deepak’s car was spotted at the van der Sloot’s property that night. The mysterious recorded phone call had a screaming monkey in the background, much like it sounded at the next door neighbor’s. Deepak was seen scrubbing out the inside of his car the next day.
Anita can describe Natalee’s underwear. How come you say? The female underwear is a trophy. Go figure panty raids. Joran kept Natalee’s underwear in his apartment. Anita discovered it the next day when she got home. (I got into it deep as a teen when my parents found a strange bra under the sofa when they got home from their trip when I wasn’t allowed guests.
In order to get to Montana where all this happened; driving north you make a right hand turn at St Ana Church and cemetery which is across the street from the Noord police station. Before you turn you pass the ATM at the bank of Aruba. All a few blocks from the van der Sloots’.
You also have to read between Joran’s half truths/lies. Natalee wanted to see the sharks so we took her there. “Shark Fest” is pimp jargon for their gangbangs.
After Natalee died they had to get rid of the body. I believe for a time she was placed in one of the crypts at St. Ana church. That could explain why the pastor put off Dave for three days before he spoke to him. Wasn’t the caretaker found dead? I still wonder why crypts where broken into and yet till today it has not re-occurred.
To avoid suspicion, when arrangements had been made; a Hearst went to the cemetery and picked up Natalee’s body and I believe she was cremated.
Shango. “Light the fires.” “What you seek is not hidden.” If not hidden then it is disguised or changed so it cannot be recognizable.
I can’t prove I’m right because no one on Aruba will tell the truth. It is more convenient to let the case go unsolved and they think hopefully the name Natalee Ann Holloway will just disappear as Natalee did.
Joran, Deepak, Satish, Koen, Freddie, Geoffery, Andreas, Michael Dompig and possibly Guido and Paulus where all involved and were at Joran’s waiting for the prize to be delivered. Am I reading too much into what is known? Am I jumping to conclusions?
I DON’T THINK SO.
10061906, good to see you back here again.
I’ve long thought other “Pimps” were involved, and that the presence of the Kalpoes was some kind of initiatory hurdle for them to demonstrate their gang “loyalty.” Maybe some other gang ties were forged, like common use/supply of drugs.
But I don’t think the gang would have been at the father’s house. Some hideout of their own, it would seem to me.
And afterwards? Did they hold onto her for some few days, hoping to sell her or trade her off? Or abuse her again?
The whole thing boils down to … HOW SICK ARE THEY? Or are some of them?
Jerry – All the legal maneuvering/finding and showing the body/hiding the body/etc.. all done under the watchful eye of the FBI and hundreds of “get the scope,be famous” reporters? Doesn’t make sense.
and 10061906 – a theory that they went to jorans apartment because no one would want to have sex on the beach? you got to be kidding me. That’s like almost every woman’s fantasy.
_________________
SM: Are you calling Joran a woman
(klaasend)
10061906:
You may be right. I don’t know how Natalee died. I have my
own suspicions, but I don’t think that she was not cremated,
at least, not until after she was found at the rocks.
Do you have anything like news article to back up the fact
that a crypt was broken into and the death of the caretaker?
P.S. It has come to my attention that you are not a member
of the Forum. Have you considered joining? Klaas said that
all you have to do is to e-mail Red about it and that she
thinks there is space available. You’re a long-time poster
and there are some very nice people at the Forum… people
that are more than just bloggers, but friends. We’d enjoy
having you…
Patti
I just read my comment… it didn’t make sense. Somehow,
I believe that you all probably know what I meant, but
just in case:
I don’t think that she was cremated, atleast, not until
after she was found at the rocks. Other than that, she
very well may have been.
(Sorry)
#50 Patti – Why would parents of Mt Brook students let their kids go on vacation to Aruba if all this info was available on the net in early ’05? Incest,sexual exploitation of minors,treatment of women,filthy dutch morals,extreme dutch hedonism. All this available at their fingertips, yet they still let them go. Huh.
Is this how it went – We’ll the flyer says safe…good enough for me. Is that how you travel? Or maybe there’s not a lot of truth to it, via their own research/experiences.
To 10061906,
You ask.
Anita can describe Natalee’s underwear. How come you say? The female underwear is a trophy.
I’ve told this story before. A friend of mine was robbed and kidnapped, and a group of us hunted the guy down, by taking turns watching the freeway for a very distinctive car. We begged the police to do something, but they wouldn’t-that is until he committed a double kidnapping and rape. Then they called my friend so they could get the bail up high enough to keep him in jail.
Anyway, getting to the point (eventually). The arresting officer was a Cajun and he cornered all of us at the courthouse to tell us the story. He walked right into the guy’s house (he lived at home with his mother) with his fancy Sig drawn. The guy was asleep, and the officer said that draped over his bedpost as if an adornment, was a collection of ladies underwear. He poked the guy in the face with his Sig; he woke up and said, “Please don’t shoot Sir! (He was very polite to my friend too)” The officer’s reply, “Then don’t move.”
So, what I’m saying is-you’re absolutely right the underwear was a trophy, and I’ll bet Natalee’s was not the only pair found in Joran’s apartment.
Jerry
Trip delayed by a day.
Jerry…I’ve thought about the situation you propose. Paulus having the body released to his custody and why Aruba would do such a thing….Legally, it makes no sense but this is no ordinary case, I’ve wondered why Paulus has remained in Aruba in an environment that could turn on him in an instant, especially in leu of the economic impact of the boycott…I believe some of his peers shared some of those pleasentries with him just yesterday…He seems quite the joke. But there he remains….unable to sell out like the Gottenbos’s did…Joran tucked safely away in Holland, and this two year window we’ve heard about forever and it’s significance all lining up with the release of Joran’s book. That is very thought provoking. Hope time has served you well.
Janet: Thx for the article, never saw that particular one. I wonder how Thomas Twitty knew that? Perhaps specifics were left out of the article…Someone should ask him.
and 10061906 – a theory that they went to jorans apartment because no one would want to have sex on the beach? you got to be kidding me. That’s like almost every woman’s fantasy.
To yoyo muffintop,
After 25 years of marriage, sex on the beach (with my wife) sounds good to me, but believe me my wife would have trouble with that one. But, what do I know-I’m a microwave, and my wife is a crook pot.
Maybe for my birthday, she might consider it. I’m about to get killed. Sorry ladies, I know this is X-rated.
Jerry
There is a difference between lying on a blanket on the beach making out under the stars and lying down on a beach of rocks with some sand.
You have to have a willing partner for that kind of rough ground. I can’t see Joran, pampered as he is, who has down this many times before doing it on the beach when his apartment is available, secluded and has the power hook up for cameras and lights.
To 10061906,
St. Ana Church and cemetery has always interested me. If I’m not mistaken, the Church is more like a place for prayer, and not really a fully equipped Church so to speak (looks like it doesn’t even have utilities). Am I correct?
What do you think of this idea? From the pictures I have seen of St. Ana Church and cemetery, it looks like there are some mausoleums. Could it be any more convenient to hide a body? Open the door put the body in, lock the door.
I’d be interested to know which families have mausoleums at St. Ana Church. I’ve tried to find out, but I cannot.
Would anyone notice a hearse pulling up to a mausoleum? Did the coffin go in or out?
Jerry
Patti: Thank you for the invitation I will try to contact Red. Whatever happened to “ME”.
The date was around Oct 8 to 10, 2005 on Aruba get a grip.
The man was Rene van Heinegrin.
The murder suspect was a woman Yesenia Castillo.
Reported by Diario.
The crypts were in Novemeber 2005. Also reported by Diario and a tourist took some videos.
I have a ton of links stored off line on cd’s, I will try to retreive them.
Yo Yo:
Please… must you always pester us with you accusitory quests?
Perhaps it would be better to make your point by making a statement:
Patti:
It’s so sad that many people are not aware that the State Department issues travel advisories.
or
How nice it is that Beth has found it in her heart to start an organization that helps people become aware of these advisories.
or
How nice it is of “us” to remind others that these advisories exist.
Why do you want to irritate people?
Hasn’t Beth lost enough, already, without you putting in your two-cents worth? Who’s fault is it that Natalee is missing? Does it give you pleasure to insult the victims of crime?
Please… have a heart.
.
Klaas:
I think that Yo Yo has gone way too far in her desire to hurt people. She has insulted the Family of Natalee Ann Holloway for far too long. Is it in her nature to want to harm people or is she just having a good time at everyone else’s expense?
Patti: Here is one link
http://tinyurl.com/jxyc6
#77: 1906, I surely was worried about you. So glad that you made it through alright. Your brain is still working just fine. I think you are right about the ‘gang’ at Joran’s apt. Most likely Joran made a lot of points that night with the pimps because he supplied the blonde girl for the party. No way that all those guys would allow him to get away with keeping the girl all to himself. Just look at the pimp pictures that have been online. They always do things in groups.
LHO didn’t do it alone. My son and I were in Dallas last month and visited t-h-e s-p-o-t. We looked around and could just ‘feel’ that there were other shooters. There were several “good places” from the grassy knoll to shoot from.
****************
Such a sick island that people have to be reminded about what sexual activity is taboo. They don’t have much brains in the morals department. As I said before, Joran’s brain is ‘down under’ and it’s very small.
Richard, Have a good and successful visit in Boston. I’ll be thinking about you and praying for you.
Justice for Natalee.
Boycott Nasty Aruba, the Island of Taboo
molly (in Houston)
1906…. The hotel under renovation near the HI… did it or a portion of it have the power on.. Certainly would have had all the other necessities minus the sand. Not to mention, there was talk of witnesses to strange events there that night, something the VDS compound never did plus the security guards worked there…. The arrest of the security guards would certainly have placated any witness testimony plus JVS was pinned by many on this board way back when as having provided witness testimony against the two security guards… In hindsight, this place looks mighty strong, if not stronger, than most of the other locations we discussed…..Oh, I still think Natalee ended up at the VDS compound, but not till after something bad happened to her….JMO Thx
Waterboy Jerry:
I think you are getting two buildings mixed up. The one church sounds like Alta Vista Chapel. It is pretty much by itself in the Northeast end of the island.I don’t believe it has much of a cemetery and it is not very big and may not conduct services.
On the other hand St. Ana is large almost like a cathedral and has an large cemetery with above ground crypts and a few in the ground. It is accross the street from the Noord Police Station. That is where Beth went when she arrived and why I have always said that in her search for Natalee; Natalee may have been no further than 40 yards away from her lying in a crypt in the Cemetery.
A hearse driving through a town by itself not a funeral procession is hardly noticed. When is the last time you noticed one. But on the other hand how many ambulances or medical assist for cardiac problems have you seen even with the lights off. The only hearse I have noticed not in a procession was when we called the funeral home for my parents and my in-laws. Other than those 4 times they were pretty much indiscrete.
I will get you some links on the churches.
Roy: I have no fix on the hotel referenced.
http://www.aruba.com/pages/churches.htm
Alta Vista Chapel
http://tinyurl.com/2y9lup
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/community/religion.html#st%20anna
St Anna
http://tinyurl.com/2bhy7z
http://www.arubabound.com/geninfo.htm
http://tinyurl.com/282w2a
Good reference
I just finished reading some of the reports from the forum about dreams of Natalee. I have been able to predict disasters, deaths, births. These appear as news flashes in front of my eyes. Just a brief flash.
I have talked to my dead relatives in my sleep. I have come to conclusions on cases weeks before they have been resolved. I can guess the final questions on Jeopardy before they are given. I have predicted things at work where my co-workers thought I was nuts until they came true. I have tried I don’t know how many times to make contact or dream about Natalee Holloway. I am sorry to say I have come up empty every time.
To 10061906,
You’re right; I do have the two churches confused. I have such a perfect picture of Alto Vista Church in my mind, but I have encoded a wrong scenery view surrounding the Church. St. Anna makes more sense.
Consider this. What does Aruba do with the paupers when they die? Do they cremate them? Is it possible if they are not cremated that they are buried at sea or another location, considering Aruba’s lack of space?
I know, I know. I’m stuck on the 100-year-old dead guy again, but if not the gold mines, and not cremated, the old guy is a definite possibility.
You have been consistent with your scenario. I’m a little more all over the board. Seems the things I believe change with the wind, but there are several things I believe that remain unchanged:
1. Joran murdered Natalee.
2. Natalee was sexually assaulted. (What else?)
3. In Rock video # 8 a white, female hand is moved and visible.
4. Natalee’s body was moved. Maybe as many as 5 times.
5. The 2Ks premeditatedly participated with Joran in kidnapping Natalee
and know exactly what happen to her.
6. Shango was Robert B.
7. There is a deliberated cover-up by law enforcement.
8. Paulus is more involved than just a cover-up.
9. Anita knows what happen.
10. Junior was telling the truth; although he may have some things
confused, and it may not have been Natalee he saw being buried at the
landfill. Although, I’m open to the idea that it was exactly as he said.
11. Dompig had the intention of solving the case, and actually did, but was
threatened, bribed, or scared off the case.
12. Several deaths are directly related to the case a. Robert B., b. the
caretaker at the Church, Rene van Heinegin c. the guy in the cave, d. the
7 year-old boy e. this lady http://www.mementomori.net/05137.html
f. this death http://www.mementomori.net/05139.html g. This one
http://www.mementomori.net/05138.h
h. This one http://www.mementomori.net/05131.html
Jerry
Let’s try the one that didn’t work.
http://www.mementomori.net/05138.html
To all,
I saved this from Grande. Where is Grande?
Grande Says:
April 26th, 2006 at 9:53 pm
SOURCE: MEMETOMORI FUNERAL HOME – ARUBA
EDMOND FERMIN WERLEMAN DIED JUNE 4, 2005 – AGE 35
KERWIN ANTHONY ORVILLE GOIJLA DIED JUNE 4, 2005 – AGE 17
GISELA SULAIKA LOEFSTOP DIED JUNE 15, 2005 – AGE 30
SAUL ARNOLD RAS DIED JUNE 28, 2005 – AGE 29
JASON EUGENE TIN SOENG WONG DIED JULY 10, 2005 – AGE 19
FRANCIS JAMIE NEMENCIO RASMIJN DIED JULY 20, 2005 – AGE 22
ALBERT RICHARD MARQUEZ BUSTAMANTE DIED AUGUST 25, 2005 – AGE 26
ANGELO SATURNINO GERLY DIED SEPTEMBER 14, 2005 – AGE 30
MOISES ALBERTO ROMERO GASIABURU (SP?) DIED OCTOBER 19, 2005 – AGE 34
LYSANDRA ZAHAYRA THIEL DIED NOVEMBER 1, 2005 – AGE 32
ARCADIO SABINO AMADO ROSINA DIED NOVEMBER, 19 2005 – AGE 21
JOSE FERNANDO SANCHEZ DIED NOVEMBER 26, 2005 – AGE 23
SHAILESKOEMAR BHAWEN DIED DECEMBER 25, 2005 – AGE 23
MICHALANGELO GIOVANNI CROES DIED DECEMBER 31, 2005 – AGE 33
MICHELL ANDRE HAGE ALSO DIED DECEMBER 31, 2005 – AGE 33
THINGS THAT MAKE YOU SAY HMMM…….
I AM IN THE PROCESS OF SOURCING MORE INFORMATION REGARDING THE DETAILS OF THESE INDIVIDUALS SUDDEN DEATHS.
I FIND IT QUITE DISTURBING MYSELF, CONSIDERING IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED THAT THERE IS LITTLE CRIME ON ARUBA. HOW DID THESE 15! INDIVIDUALS ALL UNDER THE AGE OF 35 ALL COME TO SUDDEN DEATHS SHORTLY THERE AFTER THE INITIAL SURGE OF ATTENTION TO NATALEE’S CASE? MORE IMPORTANTLY PERHAPS IS WHY?
To Roy,
Trip delayed by a day.
Jerry…I’ve thought about the situation you propose. Paulus having the body released to his custody and why Aruba would do such a thing….Legally, it makes no sense but this is no ordinary case, I’ve wondered why Paulus has remained in Aruba in an environment that could turn on him in an instant, especially in leu of the economic impact of the boycott…I believe some of his peers shared some of those pleasentries with him just yesterday…He seems quite the joke. But there he remains….unable to sell out like the Gottenbos’s did…Joran tucked safely away in Holland, and this two year window we’ve heard about forever and it’s significance all lining up with the release of Joran’s book. That is very thought provoking. Hope time has served you well.
Janet: Thx for the article, never saw that particular one. I wonder how Thomas Twitty knew that? Perhaps specifics were left out of the article…Someone should ask him.
Comment by Roy | March 17, 2007, 12:32 am
Roy,
Do you mean that Paulus is guarding something? Keeper of the gate so to speak? Hiding something or some things on the property?
Jerry
Jerry: As a possibility…yes. This cover up in my eyes required alot of mutual consent by diff’t parties…some may have objected and wanted guarantees….Seems every time I turn around I can see what looks like Aruba wanting guarantees, ie, the lobbying efforts of Bacchus, the loan guarantees from Holland and the way Oduber got nasty when the process got difficult…then the way parties always seem to succumb to his demands….and much more…heck, more than you can shake a stick at. I can’t state with any certainty they did that(released the body to the Sloots) but I can’t help but imagine that the Sloots want off that rock real bad….Aruba’s reputation and economic situation took a big knock…. And we know who they blamed.. And I think in some way they (Aruba)do believe that the Sloots contributed to this fate by their participation in the cover-up early on….so in short, yes, a good possibility, in a sea of possibilities.
As for the Sloot family, they themselves have worked real hard to minimize their participation but the fact that they have remained silent or have lied about what they do know speaks volumes…but they do give us snippets of threats every couple of months when the heat is own…They themselves obviously believe that someone else holds greater liability to what happened to Natalee… and with all due respect to everyone else’s opinions…the US and Holland would seem to agree…otherwise, why would Natalee’s senator have ever agreed to lobbying on behalf of Aruba, legal or not….or why would Holland have ever succumbed to Oduber’s threats on the loans….again, I could go on with examples but these are the ones that hit my mind at the moment. So, I believe (as a possibility) one of the primary, if not the only, reason for Joran’s book is so that they (his family) can be released of certain responsibilities….their threats seem to hold weight in alot of eyes….Dompig tried to get the FBI back down there, they refused…..I’m eagerly waiting what’s gonna happen with April’s scheduled search by TES that I’ve been reading about….I state all this as my opinion as I am in no way connected to this case other than someone who cares deeply. I am praying all parties find a way to bring this child home and correct some wrongs that have been inflicted on all parties….. The child needs to be brought home… All that other stuff can wait. I state this only as a possibility and pray for a recovery that does not inflict any more harm on this child than that which has already been done. JMO
Roy,
Tim Miller says without reservation that he knows where Natalee’s body is. I’ve almost forgotten about TES, it’s been so long. Tim says Natalee’s body is 2 miles out in 800 feet of water. I doubt it, but who can argue with Tim’s success. He’s been very faithful. He’s a good guy. Certainly he knows more than I.
I don’t guess they will doing any land searches–will they?
Jerry
I don’t guess they will be doing any land searches–will they?
Patti: Here is one article about the crypts. I’m still looking for the video. Seems it was January 2006 not Nov 2005 ike I stated before.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/12/diario-destruction-of-beach-cemetery-aruba/
tiny url to crypt destruction
http://tinyurl.com/3484ra
If anyone has never read Shango: Here it is. You may want to download and save it.
http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html
Patti:
Here is the video link
Also the crypts broken into at the Santa Ana Cemetary were of Oduber’s and WEBER’s. The Clauson cemetary vidoe tape of January 22, 2006 mentions the name of Oduber and Weber toward the end of the video. Prime Minister Nelson Oduber married into the WEBER family. Could there be any family connection to Guido Weber?
http://tinyurl.com/ooju5 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=687647062718205254&q=aruba
http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1131021512/New_Sharking_Vido
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1589467
Nord David Krouham manager
Patti forget it. I should have checked the links first; sorry.
10061906:
Thanks for the links. I believe you when you say that
you can see. When I read that God blesses his faithful
servents with sight, I know it’s true… and I believe.
God blesses you…
…and, again, I thank you.
Jerry, you ask about land searches. Recently Texas Equusearch said they were going back to Aruba in April for another try.
http://www.sun-herald.com/Newsstory.cfm?pubdate=031707&story=tp1ch5.htm&folder=NewsArchive2
03/17/07
Holloway investigator discusses safety
Arthur Wood discussed travel safety and his involvement in the Natalee Holloway missing persons case in Punta Gorda
PUNTA GORDA — Arthur Wood protected five presidents as a Secret Service agent and dealt with possibly corrupt Aruban police as the main investigator in the missing persons case of Natalee Holloway, a teenager from Alabama who disappeared during a post-graduation trip to Aruba.
He had one piece of wisdom to share with international travelers at the Punta Gorda Isles Civic Association on Friday afternoon.
“It’s so important that you understand, as soon as you step off American soil, you’ll be at the mercy of the personalities, politics and laws of the country you’re in,” he said. “You have to be prepared to be treated differently than you would be here.”
In the case of Natalee Holloway, who vanished on May 30, 2005, Wood believed that meant an investigation that police ensured would never end because a principal suspect was the 17-year-old son of a wealthy judge.
Wood told the more than 50 people who attended the Merrill Lynch-sponsored presentation about his experience in Aruba, where he believed three young men — Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe — attempted to rape Holloway. In the process, he believed they accidentally killed her, then sought the advice of van der Sloot’s prominent father to dispose of the body in the open ocean. Wood believed van der Sloot’s father also used his connections to control the investigation. The case remains unsolved.
“The daddy said, ‘no body, no case,’ and he meant it,” said David Holloway, Natalee’s father, who was at the event. He signed and sold copies of his book, “Aruba,” with proceeds going to the Natalee Holloway Foundation to aid American families with missing relatives overseas.
Wood advised people to contact the U.S. Department of State to obtain fact sheets detailing the laws, political situations and U.S. embassy locations in foreign countries before traveling.
“I think it was an excellent presentation,” said Zannie Scheell, who was interested in the Holloway case. “It scares you for all kids traveling.”
Lee Woodliff, residential director of Merrill Lynch, said the company organized the event to provide information to the public.
“The story may have gotten old in the press, but it’s not old to the grandparents who are teaching their grandchildren,” he said.
_________________________
I found this in my e-mail. Thank you!
I’m not trying to take anything away from Tim (I know personally one of his volunteer divers)but unless he has specific and privy informatiion he has a lot of searching to do when he says Natalee is two miles out in 800 feet of water. That is about 6 square miles or about 10 square kilometers of searching to do. Does anyone know where he specifically will be searching?
This is interesting. Halfway down the page when they talk about Paulus they also talk about cremation. I wonder where they picked up that scenario?
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm
Copied from http://www.orlandobible.org/permits/viewBooklet.htm,
A Time of Learning –
This future period of blessing is also described in the Bible as one of judgment, or trial. Isaiah wrote that when the Lord’s judgments are abroad in the earth, “the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.” (Isa. 26:9) All the inequalities of the present will then be righted. Those who now will fully oppose God and his laws, and unjustly treat their fellows, will then receive appropriate discipline designed to correct their wrongdoing. All the circumstances relative to each individual will be considered, and the people blessed or punished accordingly.
Even those who have died in infancy will be awakened, will mature to adulthood, and have an opportunity to enjoy God’s blessings. In a comforting promise to mothers who lose their children, the prophet wrote: “Thus saith the Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not. Thus saith the Lord: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears, for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord, and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.”-Jer. 31:15-17
Having had real experience with both good and evil, each individual will be able to choose intelligently between good, and live forever, or evil, and again be sentenced to death; a death from which there will be no resurrection. Christ will then be King, and judge supreme. Peter also refers to him as a great “Prophet,” and informs us that it shall come to pass “that every soul which will not hear [or obey] that Prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.”-Acts 3:22,23
During the present nighttime of sin and death all die-believers and unbelievers, the innocent and the guilty, the righteous and the unrighteous. But during the reign of Christ only those who wilfully disobey the laws of God will be destroyed. All others will continue to live and mature toward perfection. If they continue faithful, they will enter as perfect humans into the everlasting future ages of happiness and life “with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads, … and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.”-Isa. 35:10