Punxsutawney Phil Not Only Has a Prediction for Winter … But Aruba Tourism also
Its Ground Hog Day … The prognosticators of prognosticators and seers of seers, Punxsutawney Phil is not only making a prediction for winter, but tourism in Aruba as well.
Looks like Phil is predicting 6 more years of declining tourism. Wake up Aruba.
Leave your comments as to what else you think Phil might say.
Punxsutawney Phil says … “No Justice, no Tourism … Justice for Natalee”
There may actually be more members in the Punxsutawney Phil inner circle than on the beaches of Aruba these days.
What was Phil doing last year?
Posted February 2, 2007 by Scared Monkeys
Aruba, boycott, Fun, Natalee Holloway, Travel | 154 comments
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154 Responses to “Punxsutawney Phil Not Only Has a Prediction for Winter … But Aruba Tourism also”
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I have finaly figured the math and the tourism is down the drain.
I ain’t coming out, Jacobs might roast me for supper.
“If they can’t find Natalee, how the hell the gonna find me, 6 more years, no tourism?”
Groundhog Phil understands it better than Rudy:
No justice/no tourists
hahahahahaha great job with the sign SM that about sums it up…to bad the idiots on satans island dont get it.
You get frustrated when people defend Aruba and it’s people.. But the only thing you are doing is instult or let other people insult Aruba and Arubans.
You say it’s not about tourism, but about justice for Natalee. But all you write about is the decline of tourism. And you seem happy about it. Happy when misery gets to the Christian people of Aruba. Some of you even say that they won’t go back until there is justice. But then there are others that say even if there is justice they will never go or promote Aruba again. So as I say once again, it’s a lose lose situation. Then you have people like Jossy, who are against the government. Heck, so am I, I never voted for them and never will. Then there are people on this site who think most Arubans are either bad, or mean spirited. Thank heavens for fellow Christian churches in the USA that still feel that this is an isolated incident, however regrettable. Some people when they travel abroad let their gards down. This doesn’t mean that it’s OK to hurt them. But it could have been prevented. I still agree with you that ALE and OM did a wrong thing not to act earlier on, those crucial days. But since then, there has been no evidence that supports what you people are saying, or even what some ex-policemen said or even what some newspaper said.
Everything that happens on the island is by your account connected to the disappearance of Natalee. Someone got decapited, 2 people hung themselves, the garbage truck was involved in a car accident etc.
Yes it affected and is affecting and it will effect our tourisms and so our economy. So making the soil ready for socialism. This is not what we want. That’s all folks.
God bless America and Aruba.
No Body No Crime…will come back to haunt the idiot who gave that advice…6 days, 6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years… but justice will prevail for Natalee!
Sorry, Reaver, your comments don’t cut the mustard.
We have nothing against the Aruba PEOPLE, but we have the utmost contempt for their dishonest and conniving GOVERNMENT.
Unfortunately for Arubans, their government is their doing, not ours. As I’ve frequently said, I don’t have anything against the North Korean people, but they have to suffer for the insanity of Kim Jong-il, who would destroy us if he could.
Aruba has shown that tourists are not safe on their island.
I don’t want one more American lost there, whatever happened to Natalee.
Aruba gets 80% of its money from American tourists. And this is how their government repays our bounty.
We owe Aruba NOTHING.
Aruba does NOTHING for us.
Aruba is sheltering the people who have the answers to Natalee Holloway’s disappearance.
Unless and until we get those answers, and the people responsible are tried, convicted, and punished, I for one will do my damnedest to persuade people to boycott Aruba.
And if Arubans have to suffer for the criminal actions of their government, well … TOO DAMN BAD. They should take it up with their government. Believe it or not, the Aruban government has more to say about Aruba’s future than does this blog. So take your campaign where it belongs.
And FYI, I don’t think the Aruban people are better or worse than Americans or anyone else.
As for Phil, I think he has a higher degree of decency than the Aruban government and its officials.
Probably a higher IQ as well.
#1 If Arubans cannot see the reason that they
must stand up and speak out for Natalee,
then most of the people on that island
are mean spirited & ef’d up in the cabeza.
#2 This wasn’t an isolated incident, it
was a targeted rape by the Aruban
Raping Tourist Killers JVDS, PVDS
and D & S. imo
The killers of Natalee still roam
your island today, freely.
#3 If your loved one was buried
all over the island & tossed
away like trash, I have a feeling
some of you guys would
Boycott Aruba, as
long as it takes.
REAVER: DID YOU MAKE IT TO THE SIXTH GRADE TOO ?
(no evidence that supports what
you people are saying)
At the very least they could
nail Joran and Deepak on rape
If Aruba can’t pull off even
the most basic forms of justice…
Who the hell is going to visit
a place where they throw you away
in a trash bag & don’t even
jail your killers?
No trial, nothing.
It’s just sick. -j4n
I saw in the Diario. That “House Hunters International”. On HGTV. Is doing a show from Aruba on Feb 9th at 10.30pm est. Feel free to write to them asking them to cancel the show. Also feel free to ask them why they are even doing business with this corrupt gov’t enlight of the Holloway case. And the gov’t's part in the coverup. http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/about_us/text/0,1783,HGTV_3080_496,00.html
It is this hide-your-head-in-the-sand cry of “no evidence” that has put Aruba in the spot they are in today. There is plenty of evidence. It is clear who your perps are. There is “no evidence” only when you refuse to see what is plainly before your face.
Prosecute your guilty and you can have your island back!
Justice for Natalee is the only answer.
It’s bad enough that Natalee was most likely killed on Aruba.
It’s reprehensible that the killers are walking free.
I don’t delight in the boycott. However, I think it is the only way to get the attention of officials.
Also, my husband and I work very hard to earn money.
And we will vacation where we please.
We owe Aruba NOTHING.
Rasta Mun Wallace
The Aruban Groundhog
peeped out of his hole
today and announced
Aruba is going to have
6 more weeks of STUPID.
I like that photo, klaas. Was that a
klaas production? Who is the dude
in the top hat?
When will someone on aruba or in holand push the lever and flush those turds where they belong? They have been stinking up the place for long enough!
February 2, 2007
The Hon. Mike Huckabee
C/o Huckabee for President Exploratory Committee
P.O. Box 2008
Little Rock, AK 72203
Dear Mr. Huckabee:
I understand that you have entered the crowded field of presidential aspirants in the 2008 election. I am writing to urge that you give some prominence to unfinished business.
You will remember that Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba on May 30, 2005. Now, nearly two years later, the case remains open and apparently as far from solution as ever.
You were one of three governors with the courage to call for a voluntary tourist boycott of Aruba. I suggest that the moral justification for a boycott is as strong today as it was.
Some do not believe that elements of the Aruban government and law enforcement have conspired to protect certain Arubans from prosecution. If those people are right, then the total ineptness of the Aruban authorities in the case is itself a reason to avoid going there.
However, I and many other Americans believe that such a cover-up did and does exist. If so, our government has a duty to its own people to discourage them from travel to Aruba and a greater duty to the family of Natalee Holloway to ensure that justice is achieved.
Aruba clearly has no plans to act, and the Dutch government, which has assumed control of the case, likewise seems indifferent. The Holloway Twitty family has been forced to fight intransigent foreign governments in seeking answers to Natalee’s disappearance.
Their campaign has won them the admiration and support of the American people, yet our own government cannot be bothered to speak out. American tourists provide 80% of Aruban revenue, giving our country substantial sway over Aruba. Why do we not use it?
Maybe some candidate can be found who will put Aruba on notice that America will not forget or overlook this injustice, and that we demand answers will be found “or else.”
Maybe some candidate can be found who will defend the interests of our own people.
Maybe you will be that candidate. It is both a pragmatic and a moral thing to do.
Right on!!! there is plenty of evidence beyond the words of the main suspects themselves.
Reaver- I was the last one to call for the boycott, ask around and everyone here will tell you that is the truth. I loved Aruba prolly more than anyone else, but at some point you have have to realize that justice is more important than a nice tan. And by the way I can get that on alotta other islands especially the US Virgin Islands. Where I have the safety of the LAW should anything happen to me.
As for an isolated incident… please stop.. youre killing me here. That is the funniest thing I heard in quite awhile.
Joran himself admits this happened 20 times before. And what about all the other missing Americans that Aruba did jack to find? and then blamed the missing person for the own misfortune?
Aruba is done. Face it. Its over for Aruba and they aint coming back. St Croix pulled this same crap 20 years ago and no one every went back.
You can come on here and defend Aruba all you want, but no one is going to change their mind. The facts are the facts and we are sticking together in our quest to get Natalee and her Family the Justice they so deserve.
You better get some re-enforcements. Maybe Julia is available if she isnt still sloshed from the wine tastings.
It is clear who your perps are.
It is clear who your perps are.
It is clear who your perps are.
The truth is that Aruba has not done anything right for a long time. The consequences of the cover up seems to have been totally not understood, it did not go away. The economic climate has continued to slide. Major building projects have been cancelled and anyone that can get out with something for their investment have already done so. Even in their tax policy they do not understand what is going on and what the results will be.
It took Jamaica more than 10 years to come back from problems there. This following a concerted effort to improve security after a very public recognition of the problems. Jamaica never had millions of Americans holding the extreme negative opinion now pointed at Aruba. There simply is no way to improve the image of Aruba without a recognition of the problem (corruption of the entire judicial system) and action to correct it. It is likely that no improvement will be seen in the economy of Aruba in many years.
I don’t know why that link didn’t work. http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/about_us/article/0,1783,HGTV_3080_1433559,00.html scroll down to the last one.
We Never said it wasn’t about tourism-its about Natalee.
What we said is if you value Americans coming to the island you will seek justice for Natalee.
Remember you all laughing at our boycott?
Who’s laughing now a$$hole?
All you whining Aruban’s put together can NEVER DROWN OUT NATALEE’S VOICE FROM OUR EARS & OUR HEARTS. SHE’S CRYING…SHE WANTS TO COME HOME.
WE’VE MADE A PROMISE TO NATALEE THAT IF IT TAKES BREAKING THE BACKS OF EVERY ARUBAN STANDING IN THE WAY OF US BRINGING HER HOME, THEN IT SHALL BE DONE.
Richard, Good letter to Mr Huckabee. I’m gonna send one also. But I’ll wait a few days.
What are the good Christians of Aruba doing to bring justice to Natalee Holloway? I would think they would be able to stand up to thier corrupt government and demand answers.
I will wait for your answer
Keep the streets of Aruba clean. Don’t go there.
On a clear day you can see Chavez.
Aruba, we don’t like your attitude.
If you keep lying to us, Aruba, we will no longer look into traveling there.
Altogether now, who is to blame for the boycott?
Corrupt members of ALE
Corrupt members of Aruban government
Correction #26 should be “all together”
But you get the gist.
Anyway, all you whiny Arubans who come here blah, blah, blah
and try to blame SM, the American public, Natalee supporters worldwide,
GET A CLUE.
Rob and John, as we know this is a problem caused by the Dutch elite on Aruba. Dutch perps, lead investigator, prosecutor, and judges all screwed this case up, one that would be all but over but the hanging had just two Surinamese boys been involved. Dutch only make up a small percentage of the island population. Where is the outcry from the majority, the ones who are suffering the most from their economic downturn? Are they going to be whining “no evidence” til their heads disappear down the hole at the bottom of the crapper?
Good point, Miss U!
Do the “good Christians” of Aruba believe in justice?
OK, take away all the words….what is the actual submitted evidence? Actual sumbitted evidence. Anyone?
#30, the evidence is with natalee, and lost or covered up during the time given the perps by their lies. natalee’s body had to be hidden because forensic autopsy would present the truth about her death, and put the j2k in jail. if natalee had been compliant with their demands, there would have been no reason for her demise and disappearaance.
yo yo, where is Natalee? soon you all will want us to believe that she never even came to your Island!!!give it a rest,will u! By the way, where is RAMM and his letter to the Queen? Thought so!!!
Funny,the overlords who rape,rob and destroy a pretty island are the ones who are causing this,not scared monkeys.Basic Justice is all we want and demand.
The problem with evidence is that it must be collected and NOT destroyed. There is just too much evidence supporting the destruction of evidence, either by or supported by the police to be ignored. Obstruction by members of the police and The Court is so apparent because none involved considered the light being on them more than a few days. The conspiracy after the fact of a pre meditated gang rape and murder speaks for itself. Though only a few individuals were involved in these actions, by their non actions the general citizens of Aruba are complacent. Worse yet, the principal suspects are treated in Aruba as some sort of national heros.
I have to laff at the Arubans that cry and complain about the fact we are successful in our efforts to take this boycott to a new level every-time they think the smoke has cleared. I also find it incredible ironic that they love our dollars but our women our are ‘sluts and dress like sluts’ and deserve everything they get. They cant have it both ways. You either treat us with respect as visitors of Aruba, or we just wont go anymore.
Its so true about dollars…when you have alotta of em, you dont care what others think, when there are none, you start to worry and come up with all kinds of excuses.
As the FP of Scared Monkeys reported, tourism in the Caribbean is up everywhere except Aruba.
They dont care about anyone who visits. They just care about the MONEY.
Aruba has more ideas of how to separate a tourist from their dollars than any other island in the Caribbean.
They got what they deserved and if they are truly unhappy, hang Oduber his boot straps in Oranjestad in front of the Crystal Casino and burn down Montanja 19. To date Ive seen nothing but contempt for Natalee and her family.
Charles Croes ‘I wish she never came to Aruba, shes not worth all this.’
Oduber ‘I’ve heard enough of Natalee Holloway and wish the case would go away.’
Two real compassionate individuals huh?
They are getting just what they deserve.
As poster Frank said some time back, “The absence of evidence is the evidence.” Very astute comment.
Good comment, Vicki (#32). I’ve been wondering where Mr. Rammstein has been lingering. He told us that he had a cold, but promised to post his letter to the queen.
I would hate to think that he has slipped while carrying out sentinel duty on his beloved dikes, and now lies in the North Sea somewhere. Ah, well, loyal Dutch to the end …
and as they say, there’s nothing like a good Dutch dike.
By the way, the contempt is universal throughout the Netherlands Antilles … remember Joel Gove? The island of Saba wouldn’t put up missing-person posters because doing so might not fit the tourist image they want.
And his former wife has to round up some $75,000 to reclaim his body (she believes she knows where it is). Isn’t that just peachy keen? Some of us might think it was the responsibility of the island to do that … but not them, they could care less. Bad publicity, you know ….
Come visit the Netherlands Antilles! If something happens, tell your family to take care of it, because we won’t ….
OK, take away all the words….what is the actual submitted evidence? Actual sumbitted evidence. Anyone?
Comment by yoyo muffintop | February 2, 2007, 3:53 pm
Yo, take a trip to the
Dig up the backyard for yourself.
The evidence you seek is encased
in a recent cement job done in 2005.
Joran & Paulus make Norman
Bates look like friggin Barney. -J4N
#35, rob, don’t forget the wonderful aruban businessman greta interviewed at the dump while dave and crew were searching in the heat and stench for the body of his daughter. his advice to beth and family was to “shut up, go home, and get over it” because they were hurting aruba’s econmy. and then we have the internationally famous (in his own mind)island psychologist who took time out of his busy day to write articles about how natalee looked and dressed and acted like a slut, and it was all her fault. he also had bad things to say about beth trying to find her daughter. i could spend the rest of the afternoon citing examples of wonderful arubans we’ve met in the last 20 mos. although beth was never anything but totally thankful and complimentary of arubans, their newspapers, talk shows, and business people have continually bashed and thrashed the reputations of natalee, beth, and their families. this is the worst case of victim bashing and alibiing for the defendants i’ve ever witnessed in my life.
Dennis and Richard-
I am still waiting to a logical explanation of what happened in that rock area on 6-10-2005.
Between 6-2-2005 and 6-5-2005 Dave Holloway and his brothers searched that area repeatedly and did not see any heads, not blood, no nuttin. Also there was cadaver dogs that found no evidence of a body.
Crooked cop Halley seen in the area and he shuts his trunk and drives off in a hurry and Dave can not catch him on his ATV.
Dave Holloway a rents a helicopter and decides it might be to his advantage to get a look from above to see if he can pick anything out. They almost have a mid air collusion with the ALE helicopter with the Aruban flag on the side. They turn away from the rock area and proceed in the opposite direction. Who knows what he would have seen if he had continued on to the rock area.
On the same day, the Aruban Authorities create a distraction on the South End of Aruba to distract the MSM which then goes to the South while the ALE and painters go to the North.
TJ Ward and paulus’ eyes lock in the rock area. (What the hell was paulus doing down there?)
Ed Smith filmed first video in sequence on the morning of 6-10-2005.
Sometime between 6-9-2005 and 6-10-2005 (depending on what time of day or nite you use) all that stuff appears. Who disposed of all those body parts there?
The Arubans and a fat guy paint over the rock area. They paint specific rocks and not all rocks. The scene appears to be about 2 blocks long and is not contained to that one group of rocks. ALE guys supervise this painting. They lay tarps on the ground and appear to be concerned that all the important areas are covered. So concerned that they even paint in the crevices and around corners of some rocks.
All of the LE personal that I have spoken to about those video say it is a CRIME SCENE. Not one has an alternative explanation. That also includes Jamie.
Bonzai Monkey travels to Aruba and see that stuff for himself / herself and can not chip, crack, or chisel that stuff off of any rock. It later deteriorates on its own due to the sun. Whatever that stuff was, it was already on the island and they did not order it.
No LE I have spoken to has ever seen anything like that video sequence. Most are perplexed and unable to give any explanation as to what occurred there.
On 6-9-2005, Beth is heard crying behind a closed door by the MSM either before or after her 20 / 20 interview and is told by the FBI that Natalee is likely no longer alive.
Morning of 6-10-2005 Ed Smith films first video.
6-9-2005 one of the suspects says ‘something bad happened’ to Natalee. FBI see this portion of the interview and tells Beth.
This is all either a huge coincidence or there is a reason why there has never been any reasonable explanation as to what occurred there.
forgot to add, Ed Smith tells me he sees Dave Holloway while filming and he drives right past them. I ask Dave if he was driving a Red Jeep. Dave replies it was Paul Reynolds in that Jeep and Ed didnt know these guys by face well enough by that point and had seen Paul on TV many times.
you might want to see if you can ID a Red Jeep. Not really a big deal tho-
I’ll keep my eyes peeled for it, Rob.
I just want to add (I always have something to add)..LOL..
I know for a fact that we have not seen all of that video. I saw the missing video and according to Ed that was one long video broken into many parts to save server space. I think that there is a ton of footage that has never made it off the cutting room floor.
I got him(ED) to send the entire video to Jamie. Jamie took it to NASA and they looked at it. The NASA Imaging Dept looked at it and Jamie never told me the results of it.
I asked Jamie on the 11th to send me everything that Ed sent him and he had been busy and didnt get a chance to send me the video. According to Jamie- it was one long video, but he never saw the part that I described as the men in bio-suits and the person seen in the green shirt with the two dogs who was wearing the windbreaker in the first video. make sense?
I think there is even more to these video than you or I have even seen.
1. To Reaver
Get your head out of the sand and inside away from the glaring sun. You have sunstroke!
2. To Richard
What can I say, you’re priceless as always!! Keep it going Dude!!
3. To Gunslinger
My sentiments exactly! Flush them and flush them fast!!
4. To Carpe
Don’t stop. Don’t ever stop. We need you!!!
The statement was made that “there is plenty of evidence beyond the words..” Responses of “absence of evidence is the evidence”(silly, not astute), evidence but destroyed, etc… But what is the “plenty of evidence”, as stated, that Natalee Holloway was murdered? Was is presented in the NY civil suit but the NY judge decided to look the other way?
Again, what is the “plenty of evidence beyond words..” that Natalee Holloway was murdered by JVDS?
Thursday, June 9, 2005 – Murder suspect, Joran Van der Sloot
confesses to the murder of one Natalee Ann Holloway. Police
and investigators are over-heard by the F.B.I. during the
interrogations in which Joran Van der Sloot
states, “Something bad happened” and arrangements are made
for the self-confessed murderer to lead them to the body of
Natalee Ann Holloway on Saturday, June 11, 2005.
Friday, June 10, 2005 – Ed Smith, a videographer witnesses
and tapes a man in an area known as “the rocks” painting
over blood on rock surfaces. The mutilated and decapitated
bodies of numerous women are depicted in his pictures
believed to be the scene of the crime as described by Joran
Van der Sloot in his confession the previous day.
Saturday, June 11, 2005 – Confessed murderer, Joran Van der
Sloot leads the police and investigators to the area of the
rocks to recover the body of American tourist, Natalee Ann
Holloway. But no body is found.
Who is the man that was at the rocks that day? What
happened to the bodies that were visible in the video that
was shot that day? Why did the police wait until Saturday?
Who would benefit from the removal of the bodies and the
painting over the blood at the crime scene? Who was privy
to the information contained in the confession of murder
suspect, Joran Van der Sloot? Is it possible that someone
may have leaked the information from the Justice Department?
Is it possible that person was Joran Van der Sloot’s god-father, who holds a high position in that department? Or,
perhaps, the father of the suspect, who held the position
of judge in training? Could these people have arranged to
remove the bodies in an attempt to protect their son from
The answers can be summed up in four words. Words that were
heard as they were being spoken to the confessed murderer.
Words used as a signal to his son to be quiet, according to
reports. Words spoken by his father on one of his many
visits that he had with his son while being held in custody:
No Body, No Crime
Paulus Van der Sloot, the father of Joran Van der Sloot,
was later arrested for obstruction of justice. He was
held, questioned and released.
The body of Natalee Ann Holloway is still missing.
Justice for Natalee
Dream Reaver….Ohhh Dream Reaver….
Old Man Reaver…..Leave it to Reaver…..
Reaver are you Julia?
LOL Carpe….too funny. But seriously, I heard he ate the ground hog before he could see his shadow, so another 6 years for Aruba, and another 6 inches let out of Slims waist band.
Yo Yo I think you may want to direct your questions to Dompig, this man sits his face on TV telling the world the three are guilty as hell, then zap his son Michael spills the beans on someone and I’ll be damned Dompig does a turn around and says Natalee died of a self inflicted drug or booze od.
Now realizing what Dompig said, does anyone question Dompig and say, listen wise man of Aruba, what makes you think Natalee is dead? There is no evidence, but the wise man (wanna be dr. said Natalee DIED, WTF does he know? Why didn’t he say she ran away? Why did he say she DIED?
Miss-U – Dompig’s an idiot, epitome of the bungling doughnut eatin’ cop. You cannot place much stock in what he says.
That’s the best prediction that the ground hog ever made.
molly (in Houston)
I beg to differ. Dompig knows Natalee is dead. He knows of
the confession. He, also, knows that Joran Van der Sloot
drugs his victims. It’s not hard, nor is it wrong to assume
that a person that has been known for drugging girls who was
last seen with a girl that goes missing, probably drugged
and raped her, as he has been known to do in the past.
Perhaps, Mr. Dompig has not seen the pictures of the women
at the rocks, thereby assuming, that Natalee died of an
overdose. That is certainly something that happens
frequently enough. He is a police officer and he is well
aware of the risks that comes from drugging people. Many,
many, many women that are drugged for sex die from overdose.
However, it is my opinion that Natalee did not die in that
manner. Upon viewing some of the pictures of his victims,
my guess would be that she was tortured, fully conscience,
and brutally murdered.
Does it make him an idiot to assume an over-dose? Not in
my eyes. Because, until you see the faces of the other
victims at the rocks, it is an educated, safe, assumption.
Also, I must say, one that would make sense.
The only question that remains, especially in contemplation
of Dompig’s comments, is this:
Why haven’t they prosecuted him?
Yeah, he’s a murdering rapist, Yo.
… but nice try!
Joran, imo…is the kind of gasoline drinking,
fire breathing, turbo-charged,
carnivore that attacks, drugs,
and rapes young tourist women
during their weakest moments.
It usually happens on their last
night of stay on the island!
Hey, he’s still free ladies!!! Whatta catch?!?
Do you like death & long walks on the beach?
Heeeeeeere’s your dreamboat. PRESS L
They do the very nasty -drug ‘em & chug ‘em
and pump ‘em and dump’em routine. 20 + times,
with Joran, you probably should multiply
that figure by 3. imo He lies even when there
is not a reason to do so…
Later when done:
… they leave the women completely vulnerable &
unprotected passed out on the beach.
Hey, who says chivalry is dead, huh?
What a swell guy!
Ted Bundy was very charming
Another point to consider is that Gerold Dompig has always
been animate in his opinion that Natalee died that morning
that she went missing. At least give him credit for that.
He knows that only guilty people lie. But without the
knowledge about the cover-up at the rocks, he would think
that it was just another lie, a wild goose chase, that he went on that Saturday, June 11, 2005. No one’s perfect,
and I’m sure if he knew what had happened at the rocks the
prior day, Joran Van der Sloot would be sitting behind bars
as we speak.
If there is anything to blame for the errors made in people’s judgement, it is the fact that this case has
remained open, supposedly, unsolved for a year and a half.
During which time, the rumors are flying.
Hi Taz #43…
Thanks so much for the kind words. I’ll
Like so many others that care about Natalee…
I made a promise to ride it on out to a successful
ending. I intend on keeping that promise.
That’s right, Carpe. He had 20, 30, 40 or even 50 victims
before he finally started killing. But once he did, he
couldn’t stop… not even for one as beautiful and sweet as
Natalee Ann Holloway.
He’s a piece of shit!
Good Night, Sweet Prince!
Look, they all know by now what happened. Even if some of them weren’t sure in the beginning, they all know by now. Small island, everyone either knows everyone’s business or a little about everyone’s business. The number of people covering up this crime has increased through time. The people painting the rocks know, and the police (or whoever they were) walking around the rocks with the dog and the fat guy with the piece of plastic know. Karin Janssen knows, Dompig knows, the person videoing the Chicago tapes knows, Anita knows (you could see the rage and frightened look in her face the day Beth was in her house and her husband was sweating bullets) Anita knew then!! The Kalpoe’s mother knows, the bartender(s) that spiked Natalee’s drinks know. The people that helped Joran the 20 other times know. So, how about it police of Aruba? Make the arrest. Be specific. Set a trial date. Convict them and then hang them!! All 3 of them. Throw the dad in for obstructing justice. Give clemency to the people that give valuable information to help bust them!!!
Your tourism will then bounce back and the police of Aruba will be the heroes!!
The police dept. should print out pics of those people painting the rocks, have Jossy print their pics in his newspaper and ask people to identify them. The police should then bring them in for questioning. The police should question every bartender, waitress and cook at C & C’s (if they haven’t already). Are there any security tapes of that night at C & C’s? Get a complete copy of the tape for the entire day and night. Get copies of those tapes for the entire weekend.
Let’s see the lab work report for the samples of the Kalpoes car that were sent to Holland and the mattress and the tape with blonde hair attached to it.
And I thank you too, Tazman. As Carpe (#54) said, we’re not giving up on this. The family can’t give up; we won’t.
No justice for Natalee? No tourists for Aruba.
There’s a limited range of alternative explanations for what happened in Aruba that night. Whatever the truth, and truth it must be, we will press on until we know what it is and the guilty are punished.
Reaver, I would like to ask this question to you. Every one on your Island must know what happened by now. Why hasnt someone called the FBI. You can even call Dave at work. Its not hard to do. He is listed. Go to a payphone and just drop a dime. It doesnt make sense that you all would rather stay quiet. How in good conscience can you as Christians? Is it fair to Natalees parents to live everyday without knowing what happened to their BABY GIRL? Im sorry for the BOYCOTT, but like everyone else, I am not giving up or going away. I write BOYCOTT ARUBA on all my money and I send out letters and cards with BOYCOTT ARUBA stickers. I hope you all can please understand..TELL WHAT HAPPENED or it will be worse than just white bread missing from your tables.
And why don’t the Aruban people petition their own government demanding justice? All we hear is the whining about your tourist dollars being down. Should we care?
I remember reading in The New York Times a full-page ad purportedly from the people of Colombia, telling the world how they regretted the image that their country had acquired.
Obviously it was a PR gesture … but where are the voices of Arubans who say “This is a tragedy, and the cover-up makes it worse. We Arubans also demand justice for the family of Natalee Holloway.”
If any voices like that were heard, Arubans might merit some respect. All that we hear is arrogance, disdain, lies, and unbridled petulance. Frankly, Americans have been overly tolerant for too long.
Why, in your opinion, has no one come forward?
Aruba’s a very small island. I’m sure that someone besides the suspects and accomplices knows what happened.
Do you just accept the hogwash about Natalee running away?
Reaver, she did not run away.
Natalee was excited about college.
Her calendar was marked with upcoming college events.
Natalee bought two new sorority rush dresses–still hanging in her closet.
Natalee didn’t run away and she didn’t overdose herself and rebury her own body. She didn’t accidentally drown; her body would have washed up.
Someone killed Natalee.
Now, why isn’t anyone talking?
Just want to say that no one says it
quite like Carpe!
And Richard’s letters are the best!
ty JusticeforNatalee. You do a great job yourself!
Hey Paulus & Anita…
I was digging through the Arubay images today…
and found these.
ALE ROCKS CRIME SCENE
Is this the work of your little soul corrupting
incubus, or was it done by someone else? -J4N
Here is a juxtaposition shot of the object.
Carpe Noctem: Post # 64. What is that object?
If forensic evidence is all the court accepts in Aruba, why was that not what the ALE went for first and foremost instead of never even searching the primary residence of those last seen with Natalee.
Yes, indeed, their REFUSAL to collect any evidence in anything like a timely manner speaks volumes and explains why there is “no evidence.” We don’t know what evidence existed originally that was rejected by those who should have been preserving it.
So do Aruban Christians think it is OK to drug, rape, kill, make the remains disappear of American tourists?
Oh, and it is all about the boycott for me! That is all I can do to try to get the thickheaded attention of those who live on Aruba to understand this is now OK what has gone on there.
I didn’t cause this, Aruban criminals caused it. They are guilty of the boycott as they are what they did to Natalee. They are the ones making others suffer, not me. But I do not owe Aruba one dollar, not one. In fact, far too much American money has been invested there already and has seemed to make Arubans think they are something special and above not only the law but civilized behavior. Our own gulf coast has just a nice beaches, most natural and not manmade like the fake ones in Aruba, too.
And I am one who will never go back now for justice delayed is justice denied. My number will only grow as the “good” people of Aruba let this drag out and refuse to do the right thing and even conduct a legitimate investigation. Eventually, more people will come to feel as I do and never return. Aruba is just floundering with this and I don’t see any of these so-called good people demanding one thing be done.
I feel for you. I wouldn’t want what was done in the investigation and the insueing cover-up to be a reflection on me either. What they did was wrong, there is no two ways about that. But the boycott against Aruba is the only thing that we can do to show our disgust over the things that happened there.
We can’t boycott in Aruba. We can’t pickett in front of the courthouse. We can’t distribute flyers about the case and the things that went wrong. We can’t fire officials or demand them to respond, or make it right. Only the people of Aruba can do that.
I suppose the sooner the people of Aruba do those things, as I am convinced that the government doesn’t care about what we think, the sooner we can all get back to where we were before these things happened.
If you recall, there was a murder in Miami, involving a car jacking and a woman from Germany. Germany recommended that its tourists stay away from Miami until something was done about their violent crimes against tourists. Things were done. The car rental companies stopped putting stickers on their vehicles and license plates that made it possible for car jackers to recognize them. The city of Miami added man-power to their force and there was a crack-down on crime in the area. Today, Miami is safer for its’ tourists, making it, once again, one of the most visited cities in the country.
The changes that were made in Miami, were necessary. The people in Miami knew it and there was pressure put on the city to make changes. The city responded to the pressure. But, in the case of Aruba, the response has been that of total denial. There have been no changes made. The corruption that led to the death of Natalee Ann Hollaway continues today. Are we to risk our lives for a country that shows us their inability to admit mistakes? Are we to continue to send our daughters to Aruba for graduation parties knowing that if they are attacked by an Aruban, he will go unpunished? What would be the good of that?
The fact that the Justice Department has allowed preference to dictate their actions or inactions makes it impossible for us to come to amends. Prejudice and bias is never an excuse to cover a violent crime such as this one committed upon Natalee Ann Holloway. Preference for a chosen few, in your society, is not an excuse for letting a violent self confessed murderer go free.
Until the people of Aruba stand up against their authorities and put pressure on them to change their unwritten policies that allow things like this to happen, we will not be going to Aruba. (period) There is no excuse for the tolerance of such actions… they are wrong… and, as it is in most cases of preference, it is the people of Aruba that will suffer.
The people of Aruba need to stand up against the preference given to it’s chosen few, because of prejudice and bias that runs through every segment of your society. Until that is done, there is no justice in Aruba.
Aruba, listen up. A missing teen girl in the US. This is an excerpt from the report.
Mark Sterling Lewis, 39, was arrested early Friday on one count of obstruction of justice for giving false information to investigators. For the past two years, he has been Kaitlin’s relative by marriage.
Lewis “was not truthful with investigators when asked pertinent questions” to help find the girl, the Livingston Parish Sheriff’s Office said.
They didn’t let him go because he was scared, or old, or young or knew some of the police officers or for any other lame reason. He lied and there’s a reason for that. We don’t know what that reason is yet. They didn’t know if she ran away, but police wanted to find the girl and catch anyone who may have harmed her.
End of story.
Amen to that Richard. No justice for Natalee
NO TOURISM FOR ARUBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carpe in your #63 and 64.
What is that object? Bottom of a tennis shoe? What is above it? Is that an arm and then a head?
i’m as guilty as anyone for doing this. i think instead of referring to the powers that be on aruba the “elite”, which they’re anything but, that we simply call the bastards “the privileged”, which they are. what do y’all think?
I am holding off on saying
what I think it is for
a little while,
so I don’t taint
Here is one more:
A shot in to the
rock crypt entrance.
Sounds good to me Dennis. That beats what
I have been calling them!
- 6 syllables
- Sounds like Wordy Brother Tuckers
Another Rock Crypt opening shot
from a different angle.
-points of interest are numbered
I made a reply to your #71 Dennis but out of habit forgot to answer the math question and lost my entire post. Suffice to say I agree, just too tired to try to put it together again.
Quote from Reaver ” Some people when they travel abroad let their gards down. This doesn’t mean that it’s OK to hurt them. But it could have been prevented. I still agree with you that ALE and OM did a wrong thing not to act earlier on, those crucial days. But since then, there has been no evidence that supports what you people are saying, or even what some ex-policemen said or even what some newspaper said.”
Now, who ever found evidence that Natalee could have somehow prevented this if she hadn’t let her guard down? How are you so sure she wasn’t drugged? I hear nothing but victim blaming from even the most sincere sounding Arubans! There is evidence, Reaver! Your government took it and disposed of it! They covered up! How can you blindly believe everything you hear from the corrupt government, ATA and all the other people on the island only interested in tourism dollars? How come the good people of Aruba don’t “get it”? ALE and OM did a wrong thing? They did a criminal act! Why are you so willing to “forgive thier mistakes” instead of looking at why they made so many mistakes, and why in God’s name they treated Natalee’s family so badly, bad mouthing, blaming and accusing a grieving family. Making a father dig in the dump for his own daughter, then cover up the progress he made. I have no sympathy for Aruba or it’s people. You couldn’t possibly be that naive.
Every day Aruba continues their denial is just one more scoop of dirt on their grave.
Thanks to all of you answered without insulting me, like if I finished 6th grade, calling me a$$hole, sunstroke, mean spirited, f’d up in the cabeza etc.
No Christian don’t think rape and murder is OK, what kind of question is that?
I think Patti & JusticeforNatalee summed it just right. The only thing you can do is boycott. Good luck with it. I hope it is the means for getting what you desire, or what Natalee and her family deserves, justice that is.
And btw I never said that you OWE Aruba, I’m sorry if you had that impression in my writings.
I can’t speak for all the Chistians. I for one pray.
No I am not Julia. I am male and check you records on SM, been here since day 1, but hardly ever posted. Use to chat when that was possible on here. Then out of no where I got thrown out, couldn’t login anymore.
And I share your thoughts Viki, there must be some other people that know something. But I think it’s not smart to think that everybody by now should know. And I do understand Viki, and btw I don’t eat white bread only brown. No I don’t think Natalee run away.
To Carpe #74
Looking in the crypt I see what appears to be a head lying on its right side and facing out at us. From the head down, is all black to me. Either a blanket or a shadow covering the body. Above the head and to our left, looks like something greenish in color like the color of Natalee’s blouse. I know, maybe I’m crazy. But this is what I see.
Your circle outside and to the left of the crypt, looks like a person leaning against the rock with their back to us and left arm up as if it is leaning on the left knee. Or, the person is laying on her or his right side. The person appears to have hair a little longer than the shoulder and appears to be wearing what looks like a white shirt that might have been torn off up to the armpit.
My question is, how is it possible for that guy to be painting right there if there are a couple of bodies? And, the entrance to the crypt doesn’t look like it could be large enough to put a body in.
Maybe they painted first and then moved the bodies. And, maybe the person filming them is part of their group and not someone simply spying on them. They could have released the painting film with a warning (to whoever) that they would release the rest of the film (removal of bodies, etc.) if they were implicated in this case. Or if someone tried to harm them. Maybe there is more increminating evidence in film that we haven’t seen. Like certain individuals that we would all recognize removing and/or viewing the bodies. Like paulos, dompig, or vanstratten who said he knew Natalee was dead because “he had seen the evidence”.
I mean your # 72 Carpe.
“btw I never said that you OWE Aruba, I’m sorry if you had that impression in my writings.”
You may not have said this, Reaver, but it seems that it is the consensus of opinion on Aruba.
Remember, when the boycott first began to pinch, some Arubans were whining that it was illegal. Think of that.
They’re telling us that we can’t spend our money … or NOT spend our money … where we want.
Look at what the island of Saba, in the Netherlands Antilles, told the ex-wife of Joel Gove. Yes, you can search for him … but you can’t put up missing-person posters, because that might hurt our tourism image.
Now she thinks she knows where her former husband’s body is. But she has to come up with some $75,000 to retrieve it. The Dutch and the locals won’t be bothered. Might cost them something, you know?
I don’t understand why American media aren’t raising a stink about that. Shows you what the Dutch are, I’d say.
And let us never forget the case of Amy Bradley.
Beth originally asked that we avoid travel to ANY of the Netherlands Antilles until Natalee was returned. That’s all the family is asking for.
I want a lot more than that. I want the perpetrators of whatever crime happened convicted and punished.
So I think Aruba faces pressure for an extended boycott.
Thank your own dishonest government if you don’t like it.
February 4, 2007
Mr. David Kirchhoff
President and Chief Executive
Weight Watcher’s International, Inc.
11 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10010
Dear Mr. Kirchhoff:
I recently learned that your company is sponsoring a drawing offering free trips to Aruba. I believe this offer is contrary to the interests of your clients, especially women, and is inappropriate at this time. I therefore request that you consider retracting the promotion.
Since Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba on May 30, 2005, Americans largely have heeded the call of her family to avoid the island. Nearly two years later, the case is still unsolved and Aruba shows no interest in finding answers. The Dutch government has assumed the leading role in the investigation, yet it also seems to be sitting on its hands.
Events since Natalee vanished provide strong reason to believe that elements of Aruba’s law enforcement and government are complicit in a cover-up to protect certain persons from prosecution in this case. American tourism comprises 80% of Aruba’s economy; it is the one tool that we have to persuade Aruba that we will not let this crime be forgotten.
Although your company is not a law-enforcement agency, it seems irresponsible if not cynical for you to encourage travel to Aruba, even at low prices, while that island is reeling from the impact of our collective boycott. It also seems simple justice to support an American family that for two years has contended with a hostile foreign government.
Last year, Curves International was running an offer similar to yours. When contacted on the matter, the Curves chief executive swiftly canceled the ad campaign, which he had not authorized, and agreed that Aruba was no fit destination for American women. I hope your company also will decide that without a solution in the Natalee Holloway case, we stand united against travel to Aruba. No justice for Natalee? No tourists for Aruba.
I appreciate your attention and assistance in this matter.
Richard, as always a wonderful letter. I emailed them…I think I will call this guy up on Monday..see if I can reach him.
Reaver, I think you sound like a decent person. I will also bet that you know what happened.Keep praying….it works but it would also make things easier if you told what you know. Its up to you and I certainly dont want you to end up like PITBULL, but try and do the right thing.
Do you know SCOOBY?
If anyone feels impelled to contact Weight Watchers, please make reference to the fact that Curves International DID drop their advertising campaign once enough people wrote in.
That was a delicious moment … it proved that public opinion can make a difference. The Ladies’ Home Journal, in which the ad campaign appeared, apparently was boiling.
So was the Aruba Tourism Authority.
Here, then, we have two companies in the same business. One responds to public opinion; and if the other won’t ….
Check this out….i was reading up on the Hyscience site for a bit last night & guess what i saw? One of the poster’s here was talking about AMY and discussing if the photo’s shown of her on Dr. Phil. Someone made the comment that the Supreme Court of the US ruled that Amy’s parents were a fraud and that….yep you guessed it, said that Amy’s parents were involved in a insurance scam.
I gotta tell ya….these Aruban’s are hung up on ins. scams and i’m thinking if anyone is scamming insurance & everybody else is them. Wish we could find out how many on that island has filed & gotton money from ins. where the facts were questionable at best.
This may put you all to sleep,
Hey, I’m waiting to put it at the end so just skip on by if the reading gets too long.
There is a new Latent Blood Reagent out called BlueStar. It seems to give better results than Luminol and it can be sprayed on blood over and over and gives a luminescence for many sprayings. It is also more stable and doesn’t have to be mixed fresh each time.
This will work with Luminol also, but if you mix a little glycerin with the reagent and spray it on blood that has been treated with Clorox it still shows.
Basically, you add a tablet of Bluestar to 125 ml of distilled water, put it in a spray bottle, set the spray to the finest mist, and spray and photograph in darkness.
It would be interesting to spray down the whole Sloot property with this stuff. Even if the carpet was removed, there may be blood under the new carpet, even if treated with Clorox, and the walls may show splatter.
The stuff they used on the rocks, no one in L.E. can give me any idea what the heck it is. If I were to guess, I would say a lime mixed with water. I think that would destroy any DNA. We use lime in our out-house on the fishing lease and it dissolves poop completely if you use enough.
there are an awful lot of “insurance scams” on the islands. according to the book “public relations for dummies and caribs”, claiming insurance scam is one of the most useful excuses to use when l.e. can’t do it’s job correctly, or just want to cover up what really happened.
The Supreme Court of the U.S. has never made any ruling on the Amy Bradley case. Period. No claim of insurance fraud has been made, either.
Anyone can say anything on the Internet, but that doesn’t make it true.
Some people in Aruba say that Natalee Holloway ran away.
I hear the toilets flushing….
#84: mayan, Hyscience is still up and going? I quit going to that place a long time ago. It got so nasty and hateful that I couldn’t stand it. SM is the place for me.
That’s really pitiful for someone to say that Amy’s parents are frauds. I’m so sure that they’ve enjoyed being frauds all these years–NOT.
Usually when someone falsely accuses another person of a fault or crime, it is because they are the ones who are actually guilty. Perhaps, as you said, that Aruba is very familiar with insurance scams and fraud; so they readily assume that everyone else is doing the same thing.
Justice for Natalee. Still here for ya.
molly (in Houston)
#87, richard, i just find it totally inconceivable that a poster on scrux would deliberately lie or try to mislead anyone about natalee’s case. blasphemy is what that is. why that’s almost like saying that posters from refugeesunleasedwaytoosoonfrommentalinstitutionsforthecriminallyinsane have told lies about natalee and beth. will wonders ever cease.
Of course the US Supreme Court didn’t do that but i was suprised they were saying that about Amy’s parents. Yeah i’ve read that Aruban’s were saying that about the young 14 yr old boy who went missing after a male adult rode jetski’s leaving the mother on the beach waiting.
And when they started in on Beth saying she was doing the same & didn’t care about looking for Natalee i was like WHAT?? Absurd.
Now i see they were saying the exact same thing (ins.scam) about Amy in the very early days of Natalee being taken.
These lowlifes have been using that and or the runaway theory for so long they think they can rely on these two pat answers forever more since they all worked in the past.
But guess what Aruba? We’re onto your scams and the Scam World you used to live in is GONE. Bet that really upsets you doesn’t it. You’ve gotton away with this for so long & now you know Americans & i hope other countrys too will always be watching you & Never believing a word you say.
Dang it i lost my post…..what i was saying is while we were still hoping Natalee would be found, they (arubans)
were saying all that stuff….like they KNEW she WAS NOT coming back.
JUSTICE 4 NATALEE!
The murdering, raping Van der Sloots
and Kalpoes have the answers Aruba.
They have answers that will put
a stop to all of the horrible
things happening to your island
These things will
continue to happen until there
are answers as to what happened to her.
Your lying, gang raping, murdering, psychopathic
Van der Sloots and Kalpoes ghouls
have the keys as to her fate, Aruba…
They have Natalee’s blood on their hands,
and it is tme to take these
Justice 4 Natalee
Anyway, no need (in my opinion) to discuss the hate sites, in whose ranks HyScience belongs. I have never understood the malevolence of the maniacs who attack the Holloway Twittys, who have said that all they care about is recovering their daughter, or her body.
But the trash don’t matter. They befoul themselves by what they do and say.
Well i wasn’t wanting to discuss the site per say, i was just curious about what was being said before certain facts were locked in.
I know, MM. I guess there’s no tragedy so awful that some people wont get their jollies (British expression, I think) from it. Reminds me of the Yahoos in Gulliver’s Travels.
I’m posting this story (below) not because I think it has anything to do with Natalee … but apparently some people still think that human trafficking is a myth. It’s as horrible as anything can be. Emphasis supplied.
Mass Grave Unearthed in Urals
Publication time: Today at 01:09 Djokhar time
Law enforcement agents in the Urals have uncovered a mass grave containing the remains of up to 30 girls and women kidnapped and forced to work as prostitutes before being killed, Komsomolskaya Pravda reported Friday.
The grave was found outside the small town of Levikha, situated between the cities of Nizhny Tagil and Yekaterinburg.
EIGHT men aged 25 to 46 have been detained and charged with murder.
So far, 15 of the bodies have been identified. Forensics experts are working to establish the identity of the others.
Most of the victims went missing between 2002 and 2005. Those identified include a 15-year-old girl and her 13-year-old friend, both of whom disappeared in July 2005, Alexei Prokhorov, a senior Sverdlovsk region prosecutor, was quoted as saying.
The girls were reportedly lured to an apartment, raped and told they would have to work as prostitutes. Both refused and, like the other victims, were then killed, their bodies dumped in the forest. The graves were shallow enough that animals were able to eat them, complicating the identification process.
The eight men charged in the killings were based in Nizhny Tagil.
Four of the eight suspects are believed to be relatives.
One of the more handsome suspects was assigned the task of courting potential victims and bringing them back to the apartment.
I’d just like to elaborate a bit on the justification for posting the story above this, the one on the mass grave.
Any sane person … any decent person … would probably respond by saying “I don’t want to read this horrible garbage. Why do you thrust it in our faces?”
I don’t blame you. I don’t want to read it either, much less post it here. I can’t believe this is true … that eight people would do this sort of thing and then go home and, for all I know, have a beer and watch the TV.
None of us here can believe it. But apparently it’s true. And it went on for years.
I never thought about human trafficking before getting involved in the Amy Bradley case. That was five years ago; and whether it is relevant in Natalee’s case (I think there’s a good chance it is; few others do), it is reality for a hell of a lot of people. And to the rest of us, it’s something that we can’t even imagine, at least I can’t.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that this kind of “shock tactic” might be useful in keeping our minds open. A guy I know told me last week that before Natalee’s case, he thought human trafficking was a myth. No more.
Reading about inconceivable things like the ones in this story might appeal to psychopaths and sickos. But I think it’s essential to keep our minds open unless and until we get conclusive evidence (which doesn’t mean we shouldn’t concentrate on the most likely scenarios).
So that’s the reason this is here.
P.S. … Mayan Moons, of course my comment above didn’t mean that YOU enjoy slandering Natalee or her family. But it seems to be a regular event on the hate sites, which is why they got their name.
Let them stew in their own slime, say I.
On Januray 25 and 26 I notified Congressman Spencer bachus of comments made about him on SM.
This is a transcript of his response sand my personal info. The letter head has a water
mark with the congressional seal and a note of recycled 2006 for those monkeys doubting.
I believe any hopes of pulling Bachus ito the monkey web of lies is now kaput.
As I quote his reponse ” The internet is a great tool, but as anyone in public life knows,
anyone can post anything on it regardless of its veracity. I appreciate your concern but I am
optimistic that most people either do not pay attention to such sites or take the claims made
on them with a grain of salt.
January 29. 2007
Thank you for calling my attention to the claims being made about the Natalee Holloway case on the
internet. The internet is a great tool, but as anyone in public life knows, anyone can post
anything on it regardless of its veracity. I appreciate your concern but I am optimistic that
most people either do not pay attention to such sites or take the claims made on them with a
grain of salt.
It was good to hear from you. Please feel free to contact me any time you have an issue of
concern before Congress. It is an honor to serve you as United States Representative.
Member of Congress
Thank you for your service to the people of Alabama.
I wish to inform you that you are being accused of taking bribes by a US blog called Scared
Monkeys based on an article written by Jossy Mansur in Diario Aruba. The basis is a thinly
put together association of you, Conrad Burns, and Jack Abramoff with a perfectly legal
lobbyng activity by the Aruban government. Mansur’s aim is to shot gun the Aruban
government in order to have something stick.
I have appended the websites of the blog whose owner is Tom Royce in Georgia, the site
from the newspaper in Aruba, and a copy of the comments made about you.
I am sure you are aware that Jossy Mansur the author of the article is linked to drug money
laundering activities of his family members and to terrorist support as documented by the
DOJ as per below.
[PDF] INTERNATIONAL SECURITY INSTRUCTORS COUNTERING GLOBAL
TERRORISM www …File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML “We in the
Hizballah are very proud that America, the Great Devil, … Aruba-based Mansur family, of
Lebanese descent, took over the network, adding …
Congressman Spencer Bacchus, you have been awfully quiet these last few years since your
air kissing episode with Arlene Schippers.
It’s one more step from Abramoff to Bacchus.
Comment by Frank | January 25, 2007, 1:09 am
Hey Frank … so that’s what it takes Bacchus from going from we need the FBI in Aruba
this is no common runaway …
U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances
surrounding Holloway’s disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved.
He declined to give details.
The circumstances were disturbing,said Bachus, who formally requested the
FBI’s involvement. I can’t get into it, but it’s something the family is aware of. There was
an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off.
to oh everything is fine and Aruba is investigating the disappearance.
nice 180 … nice lobbying.
Rep. Spencer Bachus said he came away from a Friday meeting with Aruban officials with
the sense that they plan to vigorously pursue leads in the disappearance of American
student Natalee Holloway.
“Their intention going forward … is not to shut this case down, but to continue to
pursue it vigorously,” Bachus told reporters. “They do not consider it a closed case nor
do they consider that they have a dead end. They continue to develop information and
Gives a whole new meaning to, you dont know Jack.
Comment by Scared Monkeys | January 25, 2007, 1:19 am
Bachus’ actions and words left little doubt he was involved in some type of pay off or
Nice job selling out a constituent Bachus.
Never forget she was a little girl you turned your back on. Nice Job Bachus. So much for
‘We The People’ in your small mind. Sje was always just ‘the girl’ to you huh? Well, she
is someones daughter, sister, and friend, and you failed her.
You turn your back on a fellow American for a POS Aruban Dictator with his own
‘militia’. A man that wants the ‘Natalee Holloway case to go away’…he’s heard enough
of it already.
With representation like Bachus provides, you hardly need enemies.
Bachus leaves Natalee on the beach.
Bachus- you were always a coward. Thanks for proving us all right about you.
Comment by Rob | January 25, 2007, 8:29 am
Just checking to see if I can do the simple math that the answers take hereafter.
Comment by Richard | January 25, 2007, 11:25 am
So there is proof that Bacchus took a bribe from Abramoff to do a 180 degree on this
investigation? When did this happen as #38 points out, Abramoff has been in jail most of
the time Natalee has been missing. Three months after her disappearance is when he went
to jail following a lengthy investigation and in that time, Oduber paid him a bribe and he
some how paid Bacchus?
Does the family agree that this happened? Do they approve of this connecting Bacchus to
What am I missing here?
Comment by Mortella | January 25, 2007, 6:42 pm
so yes.the honorable max bauchus took a bribe from abramoff who was paid off by arubas
treasury(drug and gambling money)so they would drop the issue so Aruba could get back to
Comment by ernest | January 25, 2007, 7:39 pm
Well if anyone in our government is a part of keeping Natalee’s fate a secret i want their
heads! And if we can’t have those we’ll just have to settle on picking them apart like we do
Comment by mayan_moons | January 25, 2007, 8:00 pm
Unfortunately for Bacchus there are just too many Americans that see there was a coverup
for the kidnapping, rape and murder of an American touist. Bacchus will always be
remembered as the American represtative that conspired with criminals to disrail justice for
a constituant. A peapod picture with the heads of Obuder, Croes and Bacchus would be
fitting. Or maybe Obuder, Abrahams and
Comment by IndyDan | January 25, 2007, 9:15 pm
article from Amigoe posted by Indianaredneck at BFN
not sure who did translation
ORENJESTAD-The Aruban minister Ramon Lee of Labor,Culture, and
Sport(MEP) will not be indicted for rape, announced the Public
Prosecutor (OM) close to noon.
It appears that the alleged victim had already dropped the charges in
a letter dated December 20th. She did this because she wants peace
and quiet for herself and for her family. On November 11th, she
reported that she was forced to have intercourse with the minister in
her home. She says that dropping the charges doesn’t mean that she
denies that it happened; neither will the OM stop the investigations.
The Justice Department can still decide to prosecute, unless there is
sufficient convincing evidence. This is not the case here,said the OM.
Lee was interrogated twice as a suspect and admitted that ha had
intercourse with her, but that it was consensual.
THIS APPEARED ON AMIGOE.COM
Does anyone know how 1906 is doing.
Freedom is not free
Read your letter to Bacchus above. In that letter, you mention that there was a “perfectly legal” lobbying activity between Aruba – Abramoff – and Bacchus.
Though I could care less about this Bacchus/Abramoff connection as I see this case as an Aruban government cover-up; your letter is interesting and perhaps you could help me understand what exactly went on.
1) What was the ‘perfectly legal’ lobbying activity?
2) When was it done? (You appear to know more about the activity and what it was about than your letter lets on).
3) What if it wasn’t ‘perfectly legal’? Has happened before with Representatives/Senators from the south.
4) Could it be possible that if it wasn’t ‘perfectly legal’ that when Aruban officials visited Bacchus they politely reminded him of this past lobbying effort?
Again, I am more intrigued by your determination that the $250k was a ‘perfectly legal’ lobbying activity and mudslinging, rather than seeing justice served in Aruba…but you opened the door with your letter to the Senator. Could you help educate me (and others here) in what the activity was…and what makes it ‘perfectly legal’ under lobbying laws? The Aruban article never really gave a full explanation of this.
#98.. I notice no where in his reply did he deny anything… nice to know he considers Al gores Internet a marvelous tool…I guess I can use that…NOT.
Speaking of tools.
oh, and how could I forget, thank you for forwarding my remarks about him, Im very happy he got to see them first hand and not a rumor started over the internet about what I actually said about him.
Do you see Justice, she dropped the charges cause she just “WANTS PEACE AND QUIET” which in my mind translate to ” if she didnt drop it she might be the next one swinging from a rope”.
98. Do you think Sn Bacchus would say it was illegal?
104. Exactly my thoughts, seems the norm over there, either back off or get backfilled.
No offense taken friend, i despise the people who hurt Natalee in word or deed as i’m sure all can tell.
Anyone else having trouble posting sometimes? This is the 5th time i’ve tried posting this note.
I wrote a Caribbean Call-Out letter
and e-mailed it to 5 publications today:
Dear Editor in Chief:
Certain Caribbean islands need to be called out for
their inclination to protect tourism instead of tourists.
Two Dutch Caribbean islands that come to mind are Aruba and Saba.
Aruba Law Enforcement conducted a sham of an investigation in the Natalee Holloway case.
In fact, corruption and cover-up are suspected.
Aruba does not really want the world to know what happened to Natalee.
Officials prefer that the case remain unsolved and Natalee on “missing” status.
In public relations, “missing” sounds a lot better than the likely truth of Natalee being killed on Aruba.
Aruba’s Prime Minister Nelson Oduber even stated, at the beginning of Natalee’s case, that he would “protect tourism at all costs.” Another Aruban official declared that Natalee’s case would blow over in a few weeks.
In fact, Aruban officials would have ignored Natalee’s case had it not been for the determined efforts of Natalee’s parents and media pressure.
In a similar case, Willard “Bud” Larson is still listed as “missing” after disappearing under suspicious circumstances. ALE also showed an unwillingness to aggressively investigate in Bud’s case.
Furthermore, on the Caribbean island of Saba, officials forbid the family of missing American Joel Gove to put up posters because doing so would be “harmful to tourism.”
In addition, officials currently are demanding that Joel’s family pay recovery costs of $75, 000.
It is obvious that officials on Aruba and Saba care more about protecting tourism than protecting or providing justice for the tourists.
These Caribbean islands take the money of Americans with little regard for their safety.
Crimes are ignored or downplayed for the sake of tourism. Image trumps the truth.
Please publish an article about this compelling issue.
American tourists deserve to know the truth about these so-called tourist “havens.”
Publications I contacted:
Great idea Justice……thanks as always for posting the links.
I cannot believe Saba won’t even retrieve Mr.Larson’s body, although i shouldn’t be suprised. I hope his family will have an autopsy done asap here in the US.
“In America, a man is presumed
innocent until proven broke.”
- Joe Tacopina
“She didn’t commit any misdemeanor,”
her lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, told the
Associated Press. “That’s the bottom line.”
Foxy Brown was sentenced today (Oct. 24) to three years’ probation for a fight with two nail salon employees, finally ending an assault case that dragged on
for more than two years. Brown, whose real name is Inga Marchand, tried to withdraw her guilty plea but a judge said the agreement was legitimate and imposed the sentence.
What the !?!??!?!?
Where do you get your information that Jossy is a Lebanese terrorist supporter? What? Are you one of these people that think that if a person is of Lebanese desent, that makes him a terrorist? Talk about stretches… but I know, just like the Senator probably knows from reading your letter that you don’t have a clue about what’s going on. I like the part of his response where he asks that you contact him if you have an issue of concern before Congress. I’ll bet that made you feel important… It’s obvious that he thinks of you as nothing more than a tattle-tale, and would love to keep you in his loop… just in case something does come of the information that has been reported in the Diario.
How petty that you would write such a letter in the first place, but to post the thoughts of people that come here to write their take on the news? News that he is well aware of. Do you actually think you were being informative when you wrote him that letter? Give me a break! If he had received $250,000 from Oduber, don’t you think he knows it? And to think that he would not be aware of the article in the Diario is just plain stupidity on your part.
Personally, I think his response was insensitive to the issues of the Holloway-Twitty families and this website, as well. But what are we to expect a grown man’s response would be to a childish tattle-tale letter that holds little substance? Obviously, in your writing, you never asked him anything; so how else was he to respond? Let me know if you need any help with anything in Congress! What is this, more of the same old washing of the hands at the latreen? Tattle-tale and Pass the soap?
Perhaps, now, we should all write him a letter, based on his response to your letter. Only this time, ask him questions about the real issues. Like, why the F.B.I. participation in the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Ann Holloway was cut-back after his private meeting with Oduber. Why the family was not allowed to attend that meeting and exactly what the meeting and the $250,000 was really about. Asking, too, if he finds it odd that there have not been any convictions in this case, that he found to be so troubling before he met with Oduber, privately. Maybe he feels a little betrayed as none of the promices that were made concerning the investigation have materialized? Or, perhaps, he just never gave a damn… really, and it was all for show… gettin’ his foot in the door to address his own agenda?
Does anyone remember if there were any fishing boats
using nets & trawling between
the dates of 6/10 – 6/13/2005?
some new pics:
ROCK SITE CRIME SCENE with guides
ROCK SITE CRIME SCENE no guides
HEAD NEXT TO COOLER
You see, when a psychopath says —
“she wanted to see the sharks”
What they really mean is probably, —-
“I fed her to some sharks.”
In their own demented head “she wanted to see the sharks” starts to sound good, and they start
to believe their own stupid crap
by mentally repeating the story
over and over again…
It is part of a method one can employ to beat a lie detector test, or dupe the police & media.
Another way it can be done, is using a method that causes you to experience pain. For instance, biting one’s own tongue. Some psychos have been known to do this until their tongues are bloody and sore!
IMO Joran is your killer. Deepak and Satish are not angels, and they are dumber than two mf’n rocks… but they did not kill her! IMO Joran killed her, plain and simple. She refused sex to a psychotic, drunkard, gambling manchild who will not accept NO for an answer.
His parents always want to paint the picture that he is a good, stand up, innocent, hardworking boy who would never do such a thing.
BUT THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH. He is quite the opposite. He is
a thug, a wanna-be gangsta, he’s mean, and he takes pleasure
in other people’s pain. Truth be told, he’s basically a
hateful piece of sh, & judging by the NH Case, and effing
coward on top of everything else!
Even Anita will tell you in TV Interviews. We can’t even wake him up to get him to school. He beats on his brother
all the time. He is out constantly on school nights drinking and gambling. Deepak says the gambling is to MAKE
MONEY. He has killed family dogs on purpose, out of anger
& offloaded them in Moko.
…and he will kill again if someone doesn’t nail him. -j4n
An interesting new blog in which the writer takes on Aruba PM Oduber. Good stuff! Check it out.
It’s like taking a statement from someone and twisting it.
Maybe Natalee was asked, “Do you want to see some sharks?” And, she, like many of us would, said yes. So, now, he can
truthfully say, in a most cunning way, that Natalee wanted
to see the sharks, knowing that seeing the sharks meant
much more than simply looking at sharks, as if in a cage.
In his own mind, in the deep recession of his sick thought,
Natalee asked for it. She asked to be devoured by the
psychopath, in her request to see a man eating animal. In
the case of Joran Van der Sloot, she got much more than she
asked for… pure evil.
So, now, in the demented mind of a seventeen or eighteen
year old psychopath, he thinks he’s cleaver to be able to
save himself, using the truth…
The mind games that the psychotic use on their victims and
the ones that love them is a demonic prey upon our senses.
Remember that smirky grimace Jipshit had on his face when he told Chris Coumo “She wanted to see the sharks”, he couldn’t stop smirking. I recall he even brought his hand up to his mouth to cover his glee at that most sick play on words.
Reminds me of Scott Peterson who even when faced with Diane Sawyer still couldn’t stop smirking.
Justice for Natalee (#108) … in addition, you might consider sending it to the folks at Caribbean Net News. This is a news service for the whole Caribbean, includes papers from lots of islands, and has run letters on Natalee’s case from interested people.
Look at http://www.caribbeannetnews.com and there should be instructions there.
I think it might be good, too, if people from here wrote to Diario regularly. Why not keep hitting Arubans with our ideas?
I know one of my letters got published there, and I got a hate call from some guy in the U.S. But so what….
Finally, this is for Red and Tom: if that letter from Bachus is genuine (no way of knowing), why not jump on the occasion and write to him asking him to answer questions from the people on this forum? We could promise him a fair and respectful hearing.
Who knows? If he were willing to hold some sort of dialogue with us, which I very much doubt, then maybe we could persuade him to speak up for Natalee.
Obviously, you are the only people who can make such a gesture, as this is your forum. So it’s just an idea.
BY THE WAY, FOLKS ….
I just now took a look at that Web site, Caribbean Net News. I used to monitor it for possible leads on Amy Bradley, but time has been short recently.
Guess where they carry Aruba news? No, not in the sewage column … but under the heading of “Netherlands Antilles.”
Hmm … if our dear friend Mr. Rammstein would only revisit us and read this, how apoplectic would he be. Remember his insistence that Aruba was not part of the Netherlands Antilles, had nothing to do with the Netherlands Antilles, and was wholly distinct from the Netherlands Antilles?
Guess the people who run a Caribbean news service don’t know as much about their region as does Mr. Rammstein.
Dear, oh dear, where can he be? Perhaps, in a last burst of love for his country, he added his body to the foundation of the dike that keeps the North Sea from inundating the farms and homes of peaceful Dutchmen.
Nothing like a good Dutch dike, as they say ….
All those body parts & sh look like someone
turned inside out a trawling fishing net and
dumped all that crap at THE ROCKS.
Most seem to agree that over the weekend between 6/10
- 6/13 that momentum started to shift & the investigation
underwent a noticeable change.
What I am saying is, I think they located the body
and dumped it at THE ROCKS site. They probably had
a lame ass cover story for it… but they never had
to actually put it to use, because no one from the
MSM gave them a serious challenge over it. From there
on out, PAULUS VAN DER RAPIST and JORAN VAN DER RAPIST
were in the position of power. NO BODY, NO CRIME! They
knew a body would never be found, because they knew
where it was at all times after 6/10 – 6/13 time frame.
Today it most likely buried in the VAN DER RAPIST’S
cement job that was laid down in roughly September
of 2005. The safest place to hide a body on Van der Rape
island, is in the very own backyard of the Van der Rapes,
of course! It makes complete and total sense. (to psychopaths the likes of Joran and Paulus that is.)
Dives & Shark sites
9 or 10. Probably 9.
115 – yes, I do Mayan. That smirk makes me ill.
We wish harm only to those who have committed the murder of Natalee Holloway and those who have covered it up. When we see promotions about Aruba, yes, it makes some of us sick because we remember what happened to Natalee and we don’t want it to happen to any other tourists. As long as the cover-up continues, those who would commit evil acts against tourists feel safe to continue because they know that those with the right connections don’t pay the price for committing crimes. Would you want to go to such a place?
We want all the pressure possible put on the powers that be in Aruba and some of that pressure must come from Arubans themselves. When you get tried enough of suffering from the lack of tourism because of the cover-up, then perhaps you will pressure others to stand up and vote for someone who cares about American teen, Natalee Holloway and will stop the cover-up. Natalee’s parents deserve to know for certain what happened to their daughter. They deserve to have Natalee’s remains returned to her homeland. Would you want anything less for your child?
Having lived through Natalee’s story for almost 2 years now, no, I could never go to Aruba without thinking of her and what happened. I could never allow myself to vacation at a place that allowed Natalee’s parents to go through 2 years of hell. So, you are right, I would never go to Aruba. However, if the full truth came forward and crime was cleaned up in Aruba, I would have no real argument as to why others should not go to Aruba. It certainly wouldn’t be a big story that others would read. The mystery of what happened to Natalee keeps the story alive and people listening. Solve the mystery and there’s little to keep the story alive.
Of course the truth is, many of us who have followed the story closely know that while there might be some questions as to exactly how Natalee died and where her body is, there is no mystery as to who killed her and who covered up her murder.
I do not agree with those who call Arubans names. I do agree that one of the reasons we are so ready to point out the dropping tourism is because when we first called for a boycott, Arubans were all over us, claiming a boycott would never work and then claiming that plane loads of people will dropping from the skies on Aruba and all hotels were brimming full. We knew that wasn’t true and your government has been very slow to admit that it isn’t true.
Let’s ask you a question Reaver: What have you done to ensure that the cover-up regarding the rape and murder of Natalee Holloway comes to light? Do you care that a teenager on the brink of life lost her life in Aruba and then her parents were and continue to be put through hell as Aruba tried to drag Natalee and her mother through the mud to ensure the cover-up of her murder never made the light of day?
As the Aruban press, ALE and tourism board attempted to put stink on Beth Holloway Twitty and Natalee Holloway, what did you do to ensure the truth was told? When Aruban posters came to SM and called Americans who wanted the truth about Natalee every name in the book, where were you? Did you defend Natalee’s family’s right to find out what happened to their daughter and have her remains returned? Did you insist that the court punish the three evil twins who were last seen with Natalee, lied and got 2 other Arubans incarcerated, lied some more and called Natalee every name in the book? Were you interested in the reports on June 10th that one suspect had confessed and was leading investigators to the body? Did you ever ask around to find out what happened to that confession? Are you now enraged that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are suing an American TV show and the Star of that show for millions of dollars because they aired a tape of Deepak Kalpoe saying they all had sex with Natalee? Were you upset when Naderia Kalpoe defended her evil sons by telling us that “all people lie” and then also lied about the time her sons came home?
Does anyone know how 1906 is doing?
Freedom is not free
Comment by Miss-Underestimated | February 5, 2007, 12:43 pm
Well—I hope. I sure do miss him.
If that were the case, as I am assuming that you mean that all those bodies and body parts were caught in someone’s
nets, then why would there be blood?
There is one body, almost completely intact, except for her right arm that is lying on the ground. There is a visible sign of blood at her waist and her back that would indicate massive injury. You also can see blood at her wrists and ankles indicating that she was bound. Wouldn’t that blood be washed away upon her being dumped at sea? Wouldn’t any trauma resulting from being bound be washed clean with the salt of the sea?
Personally, I think that you see the sharks there because Joran Van der Sloot, just like many other guys his age is amazed by sharks. Maybe it was another trophy, just like the heads that he carefully placed in the rock crevices, face up, looking out. I have a hard time believing that the placement of the heads are coincidental… at least not the way that I have seen them presented. Besides, if they were bodies that were picked up in fishing nets, what would the chances be that upon emptying the nets, so many heads are placed in that manner?
I am inclined to believe that “something bad happened” and I don’t think that it was a swimming accident. I think that Natalee went to see the sharks… Joran Van der Sloots personal collection of shark carcasses… along with his extensive collection of human body parts… and he killed her.
If this was neither the scene of the crime nor the dumping site, why did Joran Van der Sloot take the investigators there, escorted in the gray sedan?
Whoa Whoa Whoaaaaa…
You’re reading WAYYYYYYYYYY too much in to some of
what I have written above… and this one really floored
“I think that Natalee went to see the sharks… Joran Van der Sloots personal collection of shark carcasses… along with his extensive collection of human body parts… and he killed her.”
Which news report tipped you off to the facts that Joran The Aruban Rapist/Murderer maintains a collection of shark carcasses and human body parts?????? I’d really love a web
link to THAT STORY, because I must have been out sick
that day. -J4N
You know darn well that Joran Van der Sloot stated that
Natalee wanted to see the sharks. You also know that there
are what appear to be shark carcasses in the video that was
shot, presumably on June 10. Such pictures also depict what
appear to be bodies and body parts. Two of the most vivid
that come to mind is the one described in my post that also
appears in the first picture you posted in your comment at
#112; and the other of a body lying belly down over a rock
missing a leg.
As far as there being a report? I suppose that there isn’t
one. Only the posting of pictures on this site, mostly by
you. Isn’t that your post at number 112?
Check post #72, look at the bottom left hand corner…
isn’t that what I am describing in my post at #123?
I don’t see more than 1 shark carcass in that film.
I don’t see a body lying belly down over a rock, missing a leg.
and I still don’t know where you got this one, verbatim:
“I think that Natalee went to see the sharks… Joran Van der Sloots personal collection of shark carcasses… along with his extensive collection of human body parts… and he killed her.”
Here is some stuff I see for sure -
1. The head and jaws of a shark
2. The head of a human, which I believe to be female.
The head is filthy like it has been outdoors for
awhile… sun, buried, whatever.
I see that the head from the corpse has a 2 – 3
inch bandage over a wound on the left temple. (corpse pov)
On the right temple there appears to be a
head wound that is bleeding.
The tongue on this head is extended and hanging
out like it is being choked.
The tongue still has some pinkness to it.
There also appears to be a sore or a little
skin rip on the upper lip on the right side.
If you are orienting yourself from the POV
of the corpse.
3. ARUBAY 38 came from video that was shot between 6/10/05 and 6/13/05
Here is some stuff I think I see…
1. A shark’s tail fin.
2. Severed human legs complete with feet
3. Inside the ROCK CRYPT OPENING – I see like what could
be the remains of a body still in clothing. It kind of
looks like it is in the fetal position to me. The colors
of the clothing look very similar to the color scheme
Natalee was last seen wearing when last seen.
When Joran said that Natalee went to see the sharks, I think there WAS A REASON the hateful little son of a bitch
said it. I think it is a half truth. I think he’s using a
technique that would help him pass a lie detector test. * NOTICE – HE WILL NOT TAKE ONE. …but at the very least the method he’s using is a way to TRY and fool the authorities.
ROCK SITE CRIME SCENE with guides
ROCK SITE CRIME SCENE no guides
BODY IN THE CRYPT
HEAD NEXT TO COOLER
I am kinda on the same page as Rob as far as the Van der Sloot reproducing possibility goes. Good gosh, Joran is the anti-christ…. if they ever consider having another one,
we can only pray that someone drives by the VDS compound
and sets off an effing bottle rocket in her uterus, leaving it all null and void. LOL
I pray with all of my heart &
soul that those lying no good
f’n Van der sloots
(the ones that hurt Natalee – and we know who they are)
For what it’s worth, my idea about the sharks is that Joran advanced this unlikely story as a way to justify his taking Natalee to the beach. Or at least that’s what he wanted the world to believe initially; few people now think that he ever was at the Fishermen’s Hut.
I think one of the Kalpoes said that Natalee asked them to take her back to the hotel. I wouldn’t think that watching a bunch of sharks in the company of three male teens is what the average girl would want to do.
Query: while Natalee was on Aruba, what kinds of hours did she and the other MB teens put in? Was she habitually out late (by “late,” remember that they were on vacation and were supposed to be having a good time)? It doesn’t make any difference, really, unless you want to blame her for what happened, as the hate sites do, but it might be useful to know what the general pattern was.
Anyway, as far as I know the only source for the “Natalee asked to see the sharks” story was Joran van der Sloot. And at this point, I find it hard to take ANYTHING from that source as a reliable statement.
There was one Mountain Brook girl with whom Natalee reportedly hung out most of the time on Aruba; I think her name was Lee Broughton, but am not sure.
Too bad we couldn’t ask her if Natalee ever said anything about wanting to see sharks, or if anyone else in the group did. I think we can assume that at least some of the teens and adults who went to Aruba would have researched things to do and that sort of stuff.
So it’s most likely that if anyone wanted to see sharks, he or she would have mentioned the desire to other kids. Certainly it’s implausible that in the early morning, hours before she has to head home, Natalee would suddenly come up with the idea of going to see sharks. That’s how I see it.
The whole thing sounds to me like some contrived story that the van der Scums and Kalpoes came up with early on; what things do tourists to Aruba want to do? Let’s say she wanted to do this, this, and that ….
To me it reeks of a phony alibi trying to justify why they took her away in their car, rather than back to the hotel.
Up above I said I didn’t think we can accept anything that JvdS says as true. Ditto for the Kalpoes, of course, and obviously not EVERY word that JvdS says is false. I don’t think he’d have the brains.
But when we’re dealing only with an unsupported statement from that source, I don’t think we can take it as necessarily true … or even probably true.
Especially if he is, as some of us suspect, psychopathic. And even if not, something more is going on here than an “ordinary” missing-person case.
Well, it’s morning and here’s another horrible story.
This has no direct connection with Natalee’s case, or with Aruba itself. I’m posting it for one reason, and only one:
(Besides the fact that, yet again, something that few of us could even imagine has been shown to have happened ….)
WHAT WAS ON JORAN’S WEB SITE THAT HIS FATHER HAD TO TAKE DOWN RIGHT AFTER HE WAS BROUGHT IN TO THE POLICE STATION?
Remember, the “Pimps” apparently all used this site.
WHY WAS THIS APPARENT DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE NOT HELD AGAINST A WANNABE JUDGE? (As if we didn’t know that one)
Paedophiles jailed for hatching plot on internet to rape two teenage sisters
· First conviction of its type for online exchanges only
· Chatroom logs lurid and disgusting, says judge
February 6, 2007
Three paedophiles who met in an internet chatroom have been jailed for using the web to hatch a plot to rape two young sisters.
In the first case of anyone being convicted of such a serious offence through online exchanges only, David Beavan, 42, from Bransgore, Hampshire, Alan Hedgcock, 41, from Twickenham, London, and Robert Mayers, 42, from Warrington, Cheshire, were given indeterminate jail sentences yesterday at Southwark crown court, London, after they were convicted of conspiracy to rape.
The court had heard that Hedgcock, a film makeup artist, had referred to “doing a Holly and Jess” in chatroom exchanges – a chilling reference to the Soham murders. He suggested kidnapping the 13- and 14-year-old girls as they walked through woods to school and raping them. He talked of administering a date rape drug to one of the girls.
Police became involved after Beavan, a greeting card salesman, apparently got cold feet and walked into Bournemouth police station in Dorset on January 3 2006, clutching a computer disc containing thousands of indecent images of infants and children. He told officers: “I have got indecent images on this disc. I am a vigilante” and claimed he was gathering evidence against paedophiles.
Officers did not believe his story and he was arrested for possession of indecent images, his house was searched and his computer seized. Dorset police contacted the Metropolitan police for help. The Met’s paedophile unit and hi-tech crime unit uncovered a plot involving three men, who had never met each other except for their virtual discussions.
Sir Allan Green QC, prosecuting, outlined one “conversation”, in which Beavan told Hedgcock: “Hope she will be wearing a skirt. i love to c legs.”
Hedgcock then sent a picture on to Beavan adding: “She has amazing legs, she’s only 13 but already …”
Beavan replied: “I will get u to rape her at gunpoint as well. so horny.”
The jury heard that Hedgcock told Beavan: “I don’t care what you do, I just want them done in like Holly and Jess.”
Sir Allan said: “If there is any misunderstanding about what he meant, and I very much doubt it, he was referring to Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells.”
It emerged that the trio had been communicating for two months on a site which features depraved images of children involved in sex acts. All three admitted various charges including 50 sample counts of distributing, making and possessing thousands of indecent images of children. After Beavan’s arrest, officers found more than 4,000 pornographic images of children on his computer, 1,249 of which were downloaded in a single session.
The three were made the subject of sex offenders’ prevention orders closely controlling their future contact with young children, access to the internet and possessing photographic equipment.
Sentencing them, Judge Geoffrey Rivlin said the chatroom logs of their discussions were “most lurid and disgusting”. He told them: “You were drooling over the prospect to take these children into the woods and rape them.” The judge said they posed a “serious risk of physical and psychological harm to children”.
The judge said Beavan was “very deeply committed to the sexual exploitation of young children”.
Detective sergeant Nick Duffield, of the Met’s paedophile unit, told the Guardian yesterday: “The contents of the chat logs caused us great concern and overstepped the mark of fantasy. They were able to identify two girls, they had an exact location where they planned to abduct the girls.
They were one step away from pulling it off. They were going to meet in London to finalise their plan – but by that time they were in custody.”
Richard, Ramm posts on BFN… maybe I will stop in and tell him we are still waiting for his wonderful letter.
Carpe, I agree with you it seems Patti has read way to much into what you said. That stupid pig in a fit of rage killed Natalee and then took her body to the rocks and just left her there. Put her with the rest of the dead bodies and figured noone woud be the wiser. By the time anyone missed her she would just be bones. Didnt figure on Beth arriving that night. I am so sick and tired of all of this. I too just wish he would DIE. Hes SATANS SPAWN and his time will come.
Yep,Rammstien is over at BFN defending the corrupt Duth government , Joran and the Kalpoes. and don’t dare call him on it or that Debbie will jump to defend him, makes me wonder what the true intentions are over there.
For someone who says he wants to help what has he ever done to really show it besides to poo poo any true effort to get answers.
The still that has what i see to be 4 heads close together are very revealing in terms of knowing how long they’ve been dead.
Carpe the head that looks dirty or burned is most curious in that if if were buried or face down in dirt why is the tongue so clean & visable.
And the temple wound looks like a gunshot to me, see the way its bleeding onto the rock in a straight down fashion. Makes it look to me like this person was shot in that position OR the person was shot & fell coming to rest in that postion. (which could happen but i don’t think the head landed there after the shot).
There are no smears of that blood on the rock as it would be if the person were still alive……barely alive but alive.
Then there is the color of the blood we see looks red and fresh with oxygen indicating that not alot of time has elapsed between the wound & the time on video when those clean up men arrived.
Sorry about the short paragraphs guys but i go ape (lol) when a long post is lost.
From the time of death there are just so many hours that the blood has oxygen in it giving the blood that rich red look. Also from the moment the heart stops beating there is no pulse out of blood & in a short period of time gravity causes the blood to pool in areas of the body that are closest to the ground. So that when a dismemberment is done you won’t see a huge splattering everywhere.
Back to the temple wound…..i feel this wound was inflicted with the person on their knees not standing.
If you look at the picture that you have entitled “head” in post 127, parts of the face are made up of parts of the body in the background. I think the head is just an illusion; it doesn’t even look real. It’s eyes look like something you’d see on an alien… elongated eye sockets. I think that the head with a bandage is an illusion as well. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the only head that I remember seeing is the one of a girl in pigtails. As far as the body of a woman leaning up against a rock with a leg missing – I saw that in one of your posts a couple months ago.
Reality is: It doesn’t matter what I think or how I express my opinions. If I write with irony, I think that most of the time it is understood. If not, that’s okay, too. We are all here to support the family and the boycott against Aruba. We all have our opinion about what happened that night and the following day, and, we are all entitled to speculate because, at this point, nothing is certain.
Whether Joran meant real sharks or the carcass kind, one thing is certain, Natalee never knew what Joran had in store for her. He is a psychopath.
The head i’ve been referring to above and the female head with shoulder length hair sitting just behind it are seen inside the basin bag. Of that i’m certain.
When my older sister was in the 5th. grade, she talked my dad into taking her and her best friend on a fishing-camping trip on the Llano River in Central Texas.
They got there about 4 in the afternoon, and set up camp. It was a place my family had camped at many times. It was in a cleared spot along the river and across the river was a massive rock bluff about 450 to 600 yards away.
As the shadows started to fall, my sister and her friend thought they saw a man on the bluff across the river. They were insistent, and kept making my dad look, but he saw nothing.
My dad grew up in Mississippi, and he has an excellent “game-eye”. His survival during the depression depended on it. If you know anything about hunting and a “game-eye”, you know that a hunter’s game-eye is activated by motion.
My dad was trying to calm my sister and her friend, and looking right at the object that they said was a man. “It’s just a yucca plant girls.” “Wow,” he caught himself saying, because his ‘game-eye” just became activated, as the yucca plant slowly lifted a rifle from the ground, and looked at them through the scope.
My dad tossed those little girls into the car, and took off for town as fast as he could go. They went to my grandmother’s house and spent the night.
The next morning, before dawn, my dad drove out to the river parked on the opposite side from where they were going to camp and made his way to the top of the bluff. He approached the approximate locating where he had seen the man, and waited for light.
When it was light enough to see, he found boot prints, and 19 cigarette butts, carefully rubbed out. He followed the prints down a twisting trail to the river, and found where the man had slid a boat into the water. That really scared him. If the girls had not seen the man, no telling what would have happen, during the night. The guy had a way to cross the river, but then again, he probable would not have been able to handle my dad.
My dad went back to the camp, and found the same boot tacks and same cigarette butts of the same brand in the camp they had set up. He took down the tent as fast as he could and left.
Point is? The point is, In all sincerity I’m sorry, but I don’t see anything. No heads, no shark, nothing. I’m trying, I’m really trying. If something would just move, I think I could see.
(sigh) i lost another long post in response to you Jerry.
Are you downloading the stills or just saving them coz it makes a HUGE difference.
Where in Ms did your dad grow up? Like Natalee i lived in Clinton MS several years before turning 12.
I am just saving and then putting them into a program. How else can I do it?
My dad lived on a farm in central Mississippi. The closest town was McCool, about 30 miles away.
Waterboy: I live in Central Mississippi (have all of my life). What area did you live in? I am about 20 miles from McCool and about 8 miles from Ethel.
to Comment by In Mississippi,
I’m not sure just exactly how far from McCool my dad lived as a kid. He left home at 14 and drifted around until he got drafted into WWII. I know Ethel and McCool well, but the last time I was back there, I was 15. My Dad went back last year. I spent some of the most pleasant summers of my life with my grandparents in the same area you live. It wouldn’t surprise me if we have the same last name.
LOL! I live in Kosciusko if you are familiar with that area at all. My maiden name is Dees.
Dearest Monkeys! Long time lurker, haven’t posted in many,
many months. This just hit me. How can anyone see sharks at night?! Does Aruba have glow-in-the-dark sharks? Or is this just Arubanese for ‘submarine races’. I also think the
visiting judge needs further scrutiny, wasn’t he staying at the house when all this happened? Back to lurking, but think about it, how can anyone see sharks at night? Unless maybe it’s up close and personal. Keep up the good work, Monkeys! I love you all.
Sorry for the distraction. I really will get back on subject, but this is just too good to pass up.
to In Mississippi,
I was born in Texas (my mom is from Texas) and I’ve lived here all my life, but my grandparents lived in Mississippi. Over the years, I’ve meet many people from the Ethel, McCool, Weir area that live in the same town I do.
Years ago, I meet this guy and he looked so familiar to me. I kept telling my wife that I knew the guy, but I could never remember from where.
One day his wife was talking to my wife, and I was halfway listening. I thought I overheard her say that her husband was from Mississippi, and I stepped up and said, Where?” She said, how in the word did you know he was from Weir?
At that point, I remember where I had met him. He was this kid from Weir that would come to my grandparents house on his motorcycle and play with my brother and me.
Good post, and doubly true. About the judge, I’ve heard the same thing. Is it true? I don’t know.