Natalee Holloway Aruba Search: Rave Cave Search June 2005 … Remember the Search?


Remember the searched for Natalee Holloway between June 6-11, 2005? There were pictures posted to a site called; however, they are no longer available. What are in these pictures?  I guess its a good thing we uploaded the pictures back then.

Back in June 2005 the site had a series of Natalee Holloway search photos posted. The time of the search appears to be around June 6, 2005 because one of the photos in the series is of the sunglasses found in the Colony area on June 6, 2005. So the search was probably between June 6 – 11. The photos are no longer available on the Coolaruba site but I copied them back in 2005.

One of the photos in the series was labeled “RAVE CAVE” with a couple of distance views of the Rave Cave leading up to it:




We decided to take a closer look inside the cave


When we got closer and adjusted the brightness and contrast this is what we saw.  Could this be part of Natalee’s top?


(more pics to follow)



(Hat Tip Klaas)

According to Arubagirl on June 11, 2005 – the search was at the Canashito Caves. 
Arubagirl Wrote – front page of SM Posted Jun 11, 1:18 AM

  • #1 It seems that they are going to Canashito, which is sort of a rock quarry. During the massive search (the one where the civil servants got off), they spotted suspicious activity by a white van in the area. The cops went to check it out, but found nothing.
  • #2 According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.
  • #3 Nothing found at Canashito
  • #4 Empty big plastic bag found at Canashito

 Map of Aruba (click on to enlarge)


If you liked this post, you may also like these:

  • Texas EquuSearch on its Way to Aruba
  • Divers Search For Natalee Holloway off Aruba’s East Coast
  • Dave Holloway; There May Be One Final Ocean Search for Natalee Holloway
  • Dave Holloway; “I’m never going to give up”. Going back to Aruba.
  • NOT Natalee Holloway Remains Found In Aruba- Confirmed

  • Comments

    232 Responses to “Natalee Holloway Aruba Search: Rave Cave Search June 2005 … Remember the Search?”

    1. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 12:30 pm

      Is this cave anywhere near the site of the rocks, where that bizarre “whitewashing” took place?

      I’m beginning to wonder whether psychopath Joran steered the gullible ALE off in all directions, laughing to himself all the while….

    2. Mere on January 22nd, 2007 12:35 pm

      Klaas….someone thought this was Natalee’s shirt…it
      looks like more than a shirt to me.


      SM:   I agree :(   (klaasend)

    3. jackson80 on January 22nd, 2007 12:38 pm

      what about the red smear to the right where she fell and hit her head?

    4. robots on January 22nd, 2007 12:44 pm


    5. joe bear on January 22nd, 2007 12:56 pm

      the time for Justice is now.We havw waited to long and nicely.

    6. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 1:05 pm

      In the fourth picture does anyone see a reflection?

    7. seventhdust on January 22nd, 2007 1:20 pm

      long yes.nicely…definetely not.This case is over.That is not her top…they already determined it was not…..i applaud your efforts for trying to solve this mystery…however there are just too many people that seemed to be involved.If the truth does get out it will be much worse for Aruba than just leaving it a mystery.I guess we will never really know what happened, we can only speculate


      SM:   I don’t know if it’s her top or not.   Why should we believe it when “THEY” tell us it’s not though?   (klaasend)

    8. Dell on January 22nd, 2007 1:34 pm

      Whatever happened to the picture/video of the man searching on some rocks and he picked up what looked like a piece of Natalee’s top and held it in his hand whle he searched rather than placing it in a plastic bag for examination. At one time, and enlargement of the picture of the material was circulated on the internet. It definitely looked like a piece of material from her top. Thank you.

    9. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 1:39 pm

      7. How do you know the case is over? You somebody that is controlling the case?

      The very fact that you are here and posting, shows how viable this case is, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted here.

    10. vicki on January 22nd, 2007 1:46 pm

      #6-missu- I dont see a you mean on the top of the rock? and your right the fact that the trolls are here in groves makes me think we are getting close…Who believes anything that comes out of the ale or the pm or anyone on satans island…..

    11. Janet on January 22nd, 2007 1:56 pm

      8. DELL

      Access link for article and images.
      December 3, 2005

      The disappearing fabric that matched Natalee’s blouse. FOX News videotaped a search around the time that duct tape with blond hair was found. The videotape showed a police officer climbing down some rocks at the edge of the ocean (near the Lighthouse), holding a piece of fabric in his right hand. This fabric appears in enhanced photos to match the fabric of the blouse Natalee was wearing when she disappeared. The Holloway family allegedly was told by the ALE it was fishnet and there is fishnet that color “all over the island.” This find was never mentioned again, although FOX continued to run the video. It is not known what has since happened to this fabric.

    12. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 2:02 pm
    13. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 2:04 pm

      Look in the magnified section, I see a face or something?

    14. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 22nd, 2007 2:08 pm


      I don’t really see anything in the red circle that looks like a match for anything that Natalee was wearing, but to the right, there are some possible color matches.

    15. SUPER DAVE on January 22nd, 2007 2:17 pm

      aruba and the suspects (all four of them ) know exactly what happened to Natalee. just by jr. sloot saying that he will tell when he gets ready should be enough reason to rearrest him and sweaty daddy. arrest the kpokes again and they will spill the beans.
      and don’t say that it can’t be done. anything is possible. all it takes is someone that cares and we already see that there is no such person on this $hithole island !

    16. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 2:17 pm

      As long as Aruba presents Natalee’s case as a “MYSTERY,” the BOYCOTT will remain.

      Tourists aren’t buying this “MYSTERY” nonsense. Mystery, my foot!

      It’s obvious that Joran VDS is involved. He made his own attorney gag at the thought of representing him. He lied at crucial points of the investigation. Oh, and most importantly, Natalee was last seen with JORAN.

      This case needs to be SOLVED and PROSECUTED.

      There needs to be a CONVICTION.

      This case is no big mystery. Most people can figure out what went down.
      Even my neighbor’s dog has it figured out.

      The only MYSTERY is how can Aruban authorities be so STUPID and CALLOUS.

    17. Mere on January 22nd, 2007 2:28 pm

      #7….I don’t care what is better for Aruba….we all
      know that there are many people involved…how long will
      you hold on to that attitude…”better to leave it a mystery
      than to solve it”…you may not ever know what happened, but I guarantee that there are some folks who are tenacious,
      and they will not stop until they know..

    18. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 2:30 pm

      S Dave

      Exactly, the moron said on tv, I will tell you later.

      Hey Aruba brains, what does that mean? To me and others he is implying he knows what happened and he isn’t telling you and he laughs in your face by proclaiming this on TV.

    19. minnesota dad on January 22nd, 2007 2:33 pm

      As has been stated again and again by Aruban Law Enforcement…there is more than enough evidence to put the three accomplices away for 8 years for rape and kidnapping.

      Put them away for eight years.

      Then, one of them will ‘rat out’ Paulus and Paulus will receive the 15 years he so desperately deserves.

      Can anyone from Aruba or the Netherlands explain to me why, in light of clear admissions by law enforcement that the evidence is there to convict, why Aruba is not prosecuting against the three???


    20. Big Lou on January 22nd, 2007 2:34 pm

      I will tell you later. Yea right! He will never tell.

    21. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 2:39 pm

      #7 Not knowing…

      …that is why
      we continue in
      heated searches.

      The longer this gets dragged out,

      the angrier we’ll become


      the more we will pull Aruba apart like…

      like raw meat dropped in to shark infested




      In fact, the more they lie,
      you might as well just play
      a sound effect indicating that
      1 more year has been tagged
      on to this saga.

      We can drag this thing out
      as long as Aruba wants.

      No S-W-E-A-T-Y S-L-O-O-T.


    22. Rumba Aruba on January 22nd, 2007 2:46 pm

      To Carpe Noctem and JusticeforNatalee,

      Just this: YYYAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNN (yawn)


    23. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 2:48 pm

      Carpe, they are waiting for us to forget. Kinda like they thought Beth was gonna take what they told her as gospel. But nope, Aruba, you are wrong. We are patient, and so is just, as long as it takes, we are here for the long haul. So Aruba…what you gonna do? Hey Karin, what does ” I will tell you later” mean. Anita, why would you worry that Natalee would get in a car with your son? Hey Paulua what does “no body no case” mean?

    24. Sorry on January 22nd, 2007 2:51 pm

      Looks more like a slow news day than Natalee’s shirt.


      SM: Wrong again Keebler … this was something that was worked on over the weekend, not necessarily to be posted today.


    25. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 2:52 pm


      it looks like a reflection of a face, could be the photographer face?

    26. Observer on January 22nd, 2007 2:57 pm

      That isnt a good picture of the fabric that they had found. It looks alot more like Natalees clothes if you watch the video.

      I am afraid that all evidence may have been tampered with. All we know have is what was captured on video and none of it adds up to what they are telling us. Quite possible that this material,belt,blood,rocks and the bones found were all replaced or tampered with. We have no idea what other evidence was disposed of and was never documented. Definetly does not look like fishing net if you watch the video…

      Deepak was seen cleaning his car at 3amish the night natalee went missing. Deepak’s car had pieces cut out on the headliner and backseat. Highly doubtful that the FBI and ALE had mistaken blood for chocolate. Even more doubtful did chocalate reach the headliner and back seat that very same night she went missing.

      We know PVDS and his close friends had access to all the evidence and were allowed to change there statements. I still feel all the evidence we need is in the statements. Not hard to figure out who changed statements and statements that have obviously dissapeared. The statements that Diario and Beth copied must not be in the official records. Those early statements/interrogations tell us exactly who tampered with this case.

      We were told the dutch cold case team has taken over this case in Aug/2006. You would think by now that we would have seen more activity. It is time to look into the criminal who handled all the evidence/interrogations. Let’s compare what is documented on film compared to what is actually in the dutch’s hands.

    27. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 2:59 pm

      26 Rumba Aruba

      YAWNNNNNNN to your faked tourism statistics YAWWNNNNNN

      We got your number.

      Aruba is imploding.


      We have so many other places to visit
      and can
      boycott Aruba

      This is the only time I will address you.
      I will ignore future posts.
      Skip over Reeba Aruba. Here just to disrupt.

    28. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 3:10 pm

      That is all you ever seem to do Rumba! ;)

      Well, two things…

      play with your self — and yawn.

      You need a breath mint by the way. Do you ever work
      on that piece of shit scumbag island of yours? Or do
      you just hang out here at SM for kicks?



      Aruban government officials:

      Govenor General
      Fredis Refunjol
      Plaza Hnery Eman 3
      Oranjestad, Aruba

      Prime Minister
      Nelson Oduber
      L.G. Smith Boulevard 76
      Oranjestad, Aruba

      Minister of Justice
      Rudy Croes
      Victor Hugo Stratt 8
      Oranjestad, Aruba

      Chief of Police
      R.F. Bernadina
      Wilheminastraat 10
      Oranjestad, Aruba

      Minister of Tourism
      Edison Briesen
      L.G. Smith Boulevard 76
      Oranjestad, Aruba

      Attorney General
      Theresa Croes Fernandez-Pedra
      Havenstrat 2
      Oranjestad, Aruba


      I am going to write these sum-bitches and tell them what pieces of human wastage & GARBAGE I think they all are for their past MIStreatment and CURRENT MIS-TREATMENT
      of Natalee Ann Holloway’s

      Please join me,
      won’t you?


      The list I picked up courtesy
      of Michelle Says So

      She said postal rates were approx.
      87-88 cents. I emailed her this morning
      about it.

      Mail and write
      ALSO if you can? Thanks.


    29. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 3:16 pm

      Yep something is up, they are coming over like caca-roaches in potato bags. Cleaning fluid and chocolate in a car, that was driven by a man who was anal about keeping it clean. Who go the chocolate in the car? Cleaning fluid has been used to put the girls out along with roofies. Yada Yada Yada, Aruba, your tourism has been and will be affected by the Natalee Holloway case. Aruba is as transparent as the blouse worn by Jr. Mama

    30. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 3:20 pm


      a US FOL on Vile Isle!

      There is a rumor floating around
      the web. I picked it up over the

      Rumor has it that locals broke in to
      a US FOL on the island and made
      off with some military grade
      equipment that could possibly
      endanger/or shoot down incoming
      aircraft to Aruba.

      Does anybody have
      the “skinny” on this???

      How SPOOKY.

      I’d like to sniff out more details and
      find out if there is truth to this?

      I’ll report back here if I hear more on
      this. -J4N

    31. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 3:23 pm

      Carpe Noctem, a few more, and possibly important, names and addresses are coming into the picture. This morning, a press release announced that the Caribbean Tourism Organization (CTO) and the Caribbean Hotel Association (CHA) are jointly launching a FOR-PROFIT Caribbean Tourism Development Company (CTDC).

      The new company will be led by alternating officials from both organizations. It doesn’t seem that there will be any corporate headquarters, but the new company will be run by the two established non-profit groups.

      Don’t ask me how it works out. But I made some calls to Miami this morning, and am supposed to get an e-mail with the relevant information.

      If I get it today, as promised, I’ll be writing them letters and posting them here. (Groan …)

      Think of this; a FOR-PROFIT company. Sounds to me like a scam to get someone pushing Aruba without Aruba’s name being involved, as with Aruba Tourism Commission.

      But if this company has to make money to survive, it has to please its customers. And what’s the best way to do that?




      No answers? No business!

      Maybe they’ll speak up for their clients and against the Aruban government.

    32. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 3:24 pm

      What does FOL mean?

    33. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 3:25 pm

      ** John Q. Kelly **

      Why Was He Recently In Aruba ?

      To “Chat” With Karin Janssen and Fats Jacobs ?

      Anyone Ever Find Out What The Complaint Was About
      Filed Against KJ ? Who Filed It ?

      Funny That Sweaty Man Sloot Was At The Courthouse Filing
      To Collect The Minute KJ Boarded That Plane To Holland ???

      Robots Is Right: Aruba Blows — I Hate Them All Too !

    34. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 3:32 pm
    35. ldstlou on January 22nd, 2007 3:35 pm

      Rumba, so nice of you to have stopped by…NOT…
      what the heck are you lurking here for?! business a bit slow? GET BACK TO WORK!!! oops…phone not ringing?! no one visiting?! And WHY oh WHY so touchy about our photos??!!

    36. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 3:43 pm

      Hi Richard-

      U.S. F.O.L. =

      A United States
      Forward Operating

      …basically military bases, for us should
      we need to jog down there and beat
      the living frog smizzle
      out of that
      insane bully

      “Hysterical Hugo Chavez”


    37. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 3:46 pm

      To the chorus of “We Didn’t Start the Fire”

      We didn’t cause the boycott
      It was Joran Slooter
      And the Kalpoe brothers

      We didn’t cause the boycott
      And it’s their misdeeds
      That are destroying others

    38. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 3:49 pm

      Richard – #31



      You nailed in the bullseye Richard.


      Aruba knows how badly they are damaged
      or ‘SCARRED’ as Luther Campbell of the
      2 LIVE CREW would say.

      So they are swapping out their horror Halloween
      mask in hopes of getting a Mickey Mouse one.

      …or at least SOMETHING that women and their children
      will not run screaming from! Like the horrible
      Van der Sloots, for instance.

    39. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 3:51 pm

      Hey Guys!

      Yawning IS Dumba(ss) Aruba’s new job, somebody’s gotta catch all those flies on that $hithole Aruba.

    40. LilPuma on January 22nd, 2007 3:51 pm

      33. Nychic.
      Along with meeting with Karin Janssen and getting an update about the case, JQK apparently arranged to have the Kalpoe brothers served with papers in the wrongful death suit filed in California.

    41. Mortella on January 22nd, 2007 3:55 pm

      Note the use of the word cleaning “FLUID” as to what was found in lieu of the blood seen in the car of Deepak. Not a cleanser or cleaning liquid but always that word “fluid” which to me speaks of a stronger than average substance, a solvent of some sort. And this is what is used in a manner similar to “roofies” as a date rape drug.

      Just what kind of fluid was found? Was it GBL, the date rape cleaning fluid? Was it some other cleaning agent that is comprised largely of this chemical? Just what was this cleaning fluid?

      What tests were done that lead all to think there was blood in the car? Who saw it? All those who reported this or only ALE? Was the entire interior swapped out before samples were taken? Was this “chocolate and cleaning fluid” in the car when the Alabama delegation arrived on the island and were standing very near the car? Had the PIMPS already swapped for an identical car and transferred the trim? Or swapped out the interior only?

      What does Automotive Enterprises have to do with all of this and what do they know? Why did Deepak tell the owner that Natalee only had $50 and how did he know this so quickly? How did he know it ever? Who told him this? Or did he watch Joran count her money that night?

      And now these photos, what is the interest that would cause people to go back and look at them over and over so often? Who keeps looking at them and why?

      No, it’s not over. It’s not over until WE say it’s over. And it’s not over by any stroke of the imagination. Oh, how you wish, Aruba! But we never have to go back to your island, not ever. How long is it going to take for that to sink in?

      Tourist stats are in the hopper according to Rudy Croes and the central bank and AHATA. And yet, we have water rats post here that all is fine. One of these groups is lying to us, what a surprise! I can guess which one, too. 76% occupancy rate may be good to the water rats but I will bet that the managers of the hotels are a bit less than thrilled.

    42. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 4:05 pm


      I agree about the suspicious findings of “cleaning fluid.”

      I have wondered if it was really GHB, an analog of GHB, or a
      homemade date-rape drug that Natalee vomited.

    43. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 4:09 pm

      Mortella -

      So right you are – AGAIN

      Who Are These “Forensic Testing Personnel” In Aruba or Holland For That Matter ? Where Did They Receive Their Credentials ? Who Was In Charge of Submitting Evidence For Testing ? Why Won’t Anyone Answer These Questions ?



    44. Mortella on January 22nd, 2007 4:11 pm

      Saying there is absolutely no evidence against these suspects doesn’t mean a thing when the reason there is no evidence is because Daddy’s buddies destroyed it.

      Or they refused to take it as evidence in the first place.

      No evidence, indeed. If forensic evidence is all that will stand up in court, that is the kind that should have been taken and yet it wasn’t. Why? Cause Daddy Sloot said so, that’s why.

      This is NEVER going to work, Aruba. Just how stupid do you think we are? I can assure you, no more than we return back to you. Just how stupid were you for trying to sell this lame excuse crap as justification for failure to investigate and prosecute in even close to minimal universal standards?

      If this had been handled in anything close to a normal manner and preferential treatment had not been given to Paulus van der Sloot and his devil spawn, this would have been over in the first 72 hours.

      Want your tourists back? You are going to be lucky to EVER get them back and the longer you drag this out, the worse it is going to be for you. A certain percentage are lost forever.

      Tourist dollars are not fungible. Once they are lost, they are gone forever. Can’t make them up next season. And next season is likely to be far worse as word spreads and more people come to associate Aruba with what you did.

      And nothing is worse than having people believe this was a cover-up. No amount of guilt or accountability is worse than the unknown. Leave it hanging if you like. But be prepared to forever be frozen in time in the minds of tourists as a place where this is done routinely. We had done it twenty times before and nothing bad happened. Was Natalee too sober? Did they have to give her too much of the date rape substance and killed her that way?

      Anything is better than being forever known as the date rape island which is what is going to happen to LieRuba.

    45. vicki on January 22nd, 2007 4:13 pm

      Miss U It does look like a reflection of the person taking the picture. CARPE can you tweak the picture a little see what you get? Could be more dead ppl in the cave.
      I am so sick of these demons coming here and spinning. FOR GOD SAKE go away…Amazing that RAMM comes on here to protect his country and doesnt answer RICHARDS questions or YOYO for that matter. Its like hide the stone under the three cups… which is it? Now you see it and now you dont. First the dutch have it, and now they dont…. they must really think that AMERICANS are stupid!!!!!WE WILL NOT GIVE UP. GOT IT LOSERS….
      One more thing, there are no MEN on lieruba just a bunch of pu—’s.

    46. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 4:15 pm

      I’d love to have seen them served with the papers too nychic! Bet they never thought that would happen. So thats why JOK was in Aruba chatting it up with Karin J, she aided help in the service!

    47. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 4:16 pm

      “It isn’t over til WE SAY ITS OVER”

      Tell it Mortella!~

    48. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 4:22 pm

      Thanks for the info, Carpe. I wouldn’t be surprised.

      Doesn’t it seem odd that Deepak should specifically mention to this guy how much money Natalee had in her purse? (Besides the question of how he would know…)

      I mean, why would he think that matter worth commenting on?

      I’m puzzled.

      Another thing that came to mind a while back … remember the comment by van der Straaten, in early June 2005 I believe, when someone asked him why he thought Natalee was dead?

      “Because I’ve seen the evidence and you haven’t,” was the reply.

      And that was the last we heard of that. None of the evidence was ever brought forward, as far as I know, nor did he elaborate.

      Sure sounds to me as though (a) he was troubled by the question, and (b) he WANTED it to be thought that Natalee was dead. For what reason? You know what I think ….

      I won’t have the address info until tomorrow. I want to write to the bozos who are going to be heading the new group, and I was told that the guy who can make it all clear is out today and will be in tomorrow.

      Nobody seems to want to open up much about this. Perhaps they suspect that the pro-Natalee forces are on to them?

      If so, they’re right….

    49. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 4:27 pm

      Remember when Greta van Susteren dropped by the Kalpoes’ rathold to do an impromptu interview, and Mrs. K. locked the door and called the cops? They were threatening to arrest Greta, though I doubt they’d have had the guts actually to do it. (Though you never can tell how insensitive Aruba can be ….)

      Guess Mrs. K. bowed to the inevitable this time, if the papers were served at home.

      Maybe this will increase the psychological pressure on the Kalpoes. Too bad “we” didn’t have an agent in place, one who would be standing nearby them and listening ….

      Maybe somebody does. Hope so.

      Next best thing: post in Carlos ‘n’ Charlies a photo of the scum being served the papers. Make sure that everyone who goes in sees it.

    50. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 4:28 pm

      Come to think of it, chloroform is an element used in cleaning fluid, I believe. Hmmm….

    51. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 4:35 pm


      I join you. Aruba, where’s your busy beaches?

    52. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 4:42 pm

      Anyone remember the murder of Jeffry Curley (9 years old) in Mass where 2 men used gasoline purchased just for the purpose of using on Jeffry? As one drove arround the other man held Jeffrey down in the backseat & covered his mouth in a gas soaked rag. Doing this killed the boy so they raped his dead body & were seen on video buying a large tupperware container to dispose of his body & dump him in a large body of water nearby. The container floated back up & when Police & the ME opened the container Jeffrey’s little body was inside. The water had been very cold slowing the decomposition of his body so the coroner could tell right away that something poured on a rag had been used to cover his mouth. They knew this coz Jeffrey had chemical burns still visable of his face.

      Why would these punks use the fluid when there is a wealth of drugs on the island? And if they had ever used cleaning fluid on anyone else they would know these chemical burns would be visable. So my question is…if they wait til Natalee’s last night on Aruba, why would they use the fluid if they expected her to catch her plane the next day?

    53. Kat_Gram on January 22nd, 2007 4:44 pm

      On a map, where is this cave ?

    54. Kat_Gram on January 22nd, 2007 4:46 pm

      Sorry, found it. The location of this cave or caves are in the realm of the possible as far as location and time lines as we know them.

    55. justinsmama on January 22nd, 2007 4:51 pm

      Trolls are here, so someone is nervous in Aruba!

    56. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 5:02 pm

      Hey Miss-U

      I guess the trolls are just counting all the Dead tourists that are scattered about the island.

    57. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 5:06 pm

      Does anyone know when the clock starts ticking on response time for the Kalpoes?

      Did it start now with personal service, or has the clock been ticking all along?

    58. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 5:08 pm

      Chloraform (sp) was used on Karla Homolka’s younger sister Tammy in Canada 12 years ago & the burns arround her mouth was the red flag to police that something crimian had occured.

    59. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 5:14 pm

      post# 58 meant criminal* geeesh

    60. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 5:18 pm


      Is this the “turtle cave”?

      Or is that in a
      different location?


      SM:   Not sure what you mean by “turtle cave” but I don’t think it’s the location you are thinking of.   It MAY be Canashito Caves.   I say that because it doesn’t look like any of the photos I’ve seen of the normal caves the tourists go to.   (klaasend)

    61. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 5:25 pm

      Here you go Miss Vicki.

      Well, well, wellll…

      “ISN’T THAT QUIZNT?” -The 3 Stooges


      Dirtpack & Super Shammy got served!!!

      ride again, ehhhh?

      GO JQK, it is your birthday, buddy! Serve
      ‘em up smothered and covered.

      It’s the right thing to do, and a good time to do it.

      Hey JORAN,
      here is a tip
      for you, PUNK…

      Don’t buy green bananas.


    62. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 5:48 pm

      not really sure, Patti.

      K, T, or Red would know better than I on that.

    63. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 6:10 pm


    64. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 6:16 pm

      The duct tape with blonde hair was found at Turtle Cave or
      Turtle Garden.

      Maybe some of our Aruban posters can tell us where Turtle
      Cave is.

      I can’t say, for certain, if the shirt near the mouth of
      the cave is Natalee’s, but it definately looks like her
      shirt that the man is carrying around…

      Happy Birthday to JQK!


      SM:   It was Boca Tortuga on the eastern side of the island.   It is not the same area as the cave photos here.   (klaasend)

    65. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 6:31 pm

      I don’t understand why the authorities don’t arrest Joran and the Kalpoe brothers for kidnapping. It’s obvious that they did something to Natalee. Joran has lied several times about the drive that they took to the Lighthouse. First saying that they went there before dropping Natalee off at the hotel, then denying it, then saying it and then getting mad at the Kalpoes for making a statement to the authorities that they were there. Up to this point, we don’t know where else they went, but we do know that Natalee was with them.

      Even as far back as the summer of 2005, Jossy was saying that all you had to do is read the statements made to the police to know that something stinks.

      Especially, the statements made in reference to the Lighthouse.

      I know I’m ranting, but, it just doesn’t make any sense that no one has been arrested.

    66. Rammstein on January 22nd, 2007 6:50 pm


      that would be article 282 from our criminal law code. Intentionally and illegally robbing someone of their freedom:

      for no specific reason –> 8 years jail (if the person is seriously injured it would be 9 years) max.

      for reason of extortion (in whatever way shape or form) –> maximum punishment 15 years

      for reasons of terrorism –> maximum punishment is life in jail

      conspiring to commit robbing someone of their freedom illegally and intentionally can be punished by 10 years

      problem with that is, how do you prove kidnapping?

      Where did they keep her?

      How long did they keep her?

      Did they kill her because that would make it murder, not kidnapping?

      One needs legal and convincing evidence a kidnapping took place. And as long as the suspects don’t speak out, or a really damning peace of evidence is found, the DA will not start a case against them because the judge will throw it out.

      And you are right, it stinks all the way to Timbuktu and back, but knowing something is fishy/wrong is not the same as being able to prove it. The ALE has done such a botch job of this investigation that it boggles the mind that any cop of that team is still on the case IMHO.

    67. dkpen on January 22nd, 2007 6:58 pm

      Old post but wanted you to see it. Quinn & Co PR for Aruba and helped handled the Natalee Holloway case. Quinn & Co are based out of NY and Aruba Tourism are still their clients. Quinn & Co help promote Aruba tourism, the

      Click on Quinn & Co, then click on clients, travel and look to the right and you will see Aruba Tourism Authority. SoNY is helping promote Aruba. No wonder NY would not have the civil suit there. They support Aruba. grrrrr
      You can also click on Media Placements/travel…scroll down to the 10th publication down and it shows Aruba Tourism Authority and Travel: Escape To Aruba. So they are promoting travel for Aruba based out of NY.

      One more place for us to write too and boycott.

      Saturday, June 11, 2005
      Handling the PR for Aruba

      In a recent article in O’Dwyer PR Website, it’s noted that the NY-based PR
      firm Quinn & Company – who has handled the Aruba tourism account for the
      past few years – is also working with the island on the missing Alabama
      teen, Natalee Holloway.

      New York firm Quinn & Co. has dispatched PR staffers to the Caribbean
      Island of Aruba, where the disappearance of an 18-year-old Alabama student
      has captivated media.

      Q&C won a three-year pact in 2003 to handle PR for the Dutch island, which
      uses the tagline “where happiness lives.”

      Natalee Holloway, a native of Mountain Brook, Ala., disappeared while on a
      five-day graduation trip with her high school class. Island authorities
      arrested three men today who said they gave Holloway a ride the night she

      The Aruban government has offered a $20K reward for information about the
      disappearance and her family has offered up another $30K. A bar Holloway
      visited that night has also posted a $5K reward.

      Carla Caccavale, partner for Q&C, heads the Aruba account and has traveled
      to the Caribbean with other staff to handle PR for the crisis. She has not
      yet been reached by O’Dwyer’s.

      Seventy-five percent of tourists that travel to the tropical island –
      which is about the size of Washington, D.C. and known for its white sand
      beaches – are from the U.S.
      Quinn did have an official statement on the disappearance of Holloway (as of
      June 9):

      In response to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the Government of
      Aruba and the Aruba Tourism Authority pledge their full support and
      cooperation to Ms. Holloway’s family.

      A thorough investigation is has been underway for over a week now with the
      support of both local and international authorities. Hundreds of concerned
      Aruban citizens have also joined the national search efforts along with
      Americans residing on island and tourists. The massive island-wide search is
      taking place on land and sea. Aruba Search and Rescue Teams, Dutch Marines,
      and Coast Guard, who have provided helicopters to assist in the search from
      the air, are aiding efforts.

      Everyday approximately 50 to 250 search volunteers including locals,
      Americans living in Aruba, along with visitors, comb different areas of the
      island. This comes as a shock to Aruba where crime against tourist is almost
      non-existent. Aruba is one of the safest islands in the Caribbean and a
      favorite amongst travelers with a repeat visitor rate of 40%, the highest of
      any Caribbean destination.

      The island extends its sincerest thoughts and prayers to Ms. Holloway’s
      family and friends for a positive outcome.

      In the past, there has been much written about using blogs for crisis
      communications; the disappearance of would have been a good example of how
      Aruba could have used a blog to keep press, and public, up to date on
      everything that the island nation had been doing.

      I sent Quinn a few questions via email, and follows are the questions and

      Thus far, Aruba has only put up $20,000 of the $50,000 reward, with the
      bulk put up by the family. Does the island plan on putting in more? How is
      Quinn & Company combating what may be viewed as the island being cheap?

      Following is the breakdown for the reward: $10,000 from the government of
      Aruba, $10,000 from the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association, $10,000 from
      the family and $20,000 from anonymous investors in Birmingham, Alabama.

      Are there any estimates on how much in US tourism dollars Aruba might lose
      from this disappearance?

      We do not have that information.

      In the age of open communications and up-to-date news, did Quinn and
      Company or Aruba think of setting up a crisis communications blog to be
      constantly updated with news of what the island is doing, and news updates?

      Aruba has a message board on the Web site and Quinn & Co. has
      made sure that all of Aruba’s travel partners are kept up to date at all
      times as more information becomes available.

      What are the post-crisis plans, to try to alleviate any fears and convince
      people to vacation on the island?

      Currently we are completely focused on supporting the Holloway family and
      bringing the situation to closure.
      A few thougths about this: with a country that relies heavily on tourism, to
      only pony up $20,000 while the family and friends in Alabama brought in
      $30,000 seems like an inbalance. The island relies on American and
      international tourism, and should have brought more to the table than just
      $20,000 – it’s almost insulting. The PR firm should have pushed the client
      to put in more than the family and friends. A lot more.

      In regards to a message board on reaching out to the island’s
      travel partners, those are not the people that need to be reached with
      up-to-date information, but rather people that were thinking of traveling to
      Aruba and now have concerns. Update: Q&C did call me to let me know that
      they are also responding to all consumer questions and concerns personally –
      each email is personally addressed, not automated.

      A blog – separate from the Aruba Website – could have been an interactive
      press room, where members of the press could get the latest updates via RSS
      feeds and the public could have come to find information and post questions
      and comments. While not every company needs to blog, blogs are tools that
      should be used in crisis situations.

      In this instance, you want the island government ot be proactive, out in
      front of all the others, and in full control of the investigation – a blog
      could have helped with that.

      In situations like these, no amount of crisis planning is going to help, but
      having certain communications tools in place can at least get information
      out to the public.

    68. Rammstein on January 22nd, 2007 6:58 pm

      sorry about that one LOL, it should of course be “piece of evidence” in the story I posted just above.

    69. dkpen on January 22nd, 2007 7:07 pm

      According to Dutch Law, and I posted this over on BFN back in 2005 or early 2006 when I was still there…I looked up Dutch Law and it stated…

      That when you leave with someone incompassidated in their presence they are liable for your well being. And if anything was to happen to you while in their care they would be held accountable for it. So, if they leave you while incompassidated and something bad happens to you, like say kidnapped or murdered, they can be held accountable for it.

      This is where kidnapping charges can be brought up against J2K.

    70. Maggie on January 22nd, 2007 7:11 pm

      I don’t know how the how to’s or wherefores, but there’s not a doubt in my mind after all I’ve seen that Natalee Holloway hasn’t been alive since the night she went missing, and that Paulus, Joran, Deepak and Satish know exactly what happened to Natalee and how. I also believe Anita and Nadira know. Anita can lie at the drop of a pin like the others. One does not need to make up lies when they are innocent and want to clear their name and find the real “killers”

      I haven’t forgotten Joran’s statement in the Current Affair interview where he said he wished he would’ve stayed home that night and listened to his dad, and this would/ve happen to someone else. Someone else would’ve came along and took her to the beach and forgot their condoms and left her to watch stars????? Or maybe he wants to explain with another big fat lie what that means. Seeing as how that’s what he said happen. What a loonie tune.. Not a doubt in my mind Natalee would’ve made it back to her hotel fine if they would’ve all 3 stayed home that night. They know it and anyone with common sense can figure it out. 3 sober guys go out at closing time and pick up an intoxicated girl and whisk her off in chaos and confusion of the mass of people leaving and shes never seen again and the same night the father, family is sitting around the pool making up the Holiday Inn alibis. 3guys -1 intoxicated girl =foul play. Straten was looking out for his friends. If they weren’t all involved, one would be squealing on the other. The FBI said June 9th this is a homicide. Straten said a few days after Natalee disappeared and the focus was on the 2 guards, this is a homicide, he seen the evidence.

      First time Natalee wants to see sharks, its with them. First time she said she lives on a plantation and has slaves, shes with them. First time she ever gets in a car with 3 strange guys, its with them, first time she wants to do a belly shot its with Joran, first time she wants to go do a shot of rum with 3 strange guys its with them, first time shes on cocaine its with them, first time she wants to stay on the beach alone at 3 am she’s with them. He even claimed Natalee told him she was a lesbian. Charles Croes said he told them Natalee was doing drugs and possibly drinking.. Like robots says, they make me sick.

    71. altruist on January 22nd, 2007 7:13 pm

      We KNOW that Ben (voc)King & PVDS were involved with disappearing evidence relating to Matthews, this was established by an independant & unbiased court YET the Devil’s Rock continued Ben (voc)King’s employment working for the ATTORNEY GENERAL of the Devil’s Rock & during the time that evidence gathered in the search of NAH Ben (voc)King had access to the Prosecutor’s Office. Evidence could have definitely been switched out. Think about it. The goon lover & unethical could have copied the evidence on a copy machine, replicated it using different sources of stains & then switched it out. Sounds pretty simple to me & SHOULD HAVE been made impossible from day one. Instead, Ben (voc)King was in place until days following the substandard search of the PVDS property, subsequent to his being filmed answering the door of the PVDS residence.

      ATTORNEY GENERAL CROES looks to be complicit in this mess. Proper measures were in order & were not taken. To me even a person with limited intelligence would have immediately safeguarded the investigation by communicating with the Prosecutor that practices of the office needed to be protected from internal personnel having access to the office & the gathered evidence in order to ensure impartiallity & eliminating temptation of personal relationships.

      There are many to be held responsible in addition to the FOUR PERPS who did the actual deeds.

      Also, in many of the real interview investigations that I have viewed on cable, an obtusely sweating declarant is a neon flashing sign as to culpability. We all saw that sweathog PVDS with rivers of sweat when Greta & BH were at the personal residence. PVDS knows, he is a disgrace to the human race & a true failure as a parent.

    72. seventhdust on January 22nd, 2007 7:29 pm

      I do not believe that Aruba and the government of the Netherlands will allow this to continue on.If they start going deeper into it it will get ugly.They do not want another media circus for this case.That is exactly what a trial and further investigation will bring.I suspect when the 2 year anniversary of the case happens and they do not press charges, there will be some jabber from foxnews with an interview or 2 with the usual media whores, but then that will be it and it will stay like that.I do not believe anyone will ever be succesfully prosecuted for this alleged crime.

    73. Rammstein on January 22nd, 2007 7:45 pm

      #69 Dkpen,

      what article of law was that? Was it article 255 or article 450?

    74. Rammstein on January 22nd, 2007 7:48 pm


      yeah, like mr. Mathews is a reliable source for anything

    75. Mere on January 22nd, 2007 7:50 pm

      #72…you are not getting it….lots of people have
      background information on this case…and they are
      American…Americans have freedom of speech…got the picture….Aruba can shut up and shut down but we do
      not have to…hold on there because nothing good is
      going to happen on your island until this “alleged crime”
      is solved….Do you have any kids…? Maybe you don’t know
      what real feelings are all about….

    76. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 8:02 pm

      Seventh Dust:

      Are you posting from Aruba?

      If so, can you please tell me how far Boca Tortugas is from
      the California Lighthouse?

    77. seventhdust on January 22nd, 2007 8:50 pm


      distance wise its not that much..20 km?12miles?….but it takes forever to get there because the roads are maybe 50 minutes if you are going fast at night??

    78. Allan K on January 22nd, 2007 8:51 pm

      Aruba still unable to prosecute a Dutch kid for an American girl. Aruba still playing stupid. Aruba still corrupt to the bone. Aruba still don’t give a damn who knows. Oh how I despise Aruba. It must be a lot of ALE into this molest tourists for them not to come forward. Anybody else would say something if not involved. Must be a lot of ALE involved not to say anything.

    79. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 8:57 pm

      Patti, the suspects and Daddy vdS WERE arrested … but then released.

    80. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 8:58 pm

      Patti -

      I see every “Boca” on this map except Tortugas ?


      Carpe -
      Something Stinks In Aruba !
      Could It Be That “Canoshito”
      (do you still have that pic ?)


      SM:   Here is a map with the general location of Boca Tortuge where the fabric was found.   It’s on the right side of the map. (klaasend)

    81. Blacky on January 22nd, 2007 9:06 pm

      What has caused this flurry in activity after such a long sliense?

    82. yenesia on January 22nd, 2007 9:07 pm

      Aruba Increases Tourist Investments

      San Juan, Jan 22(Prensa Latina) The Aruba tourist authorities announced Monday they will invest millions this year to improving their hotel and extra-hotel infrastructure to take a better position in the market.

      The digital Caribbean News opined this is a happy perspective and that Tourism and Transport Minister Edison Briesen was satisfied by these precautions and the strategy begun in 2006.

      In Oranjestad, the capital, a huge condominium and commercial center will be built with a 100 million dollar investment.

      As for the hotel sector, in December the Westin chain assumed renewing the Hotel Wyndham for 25 million dollars.

      hr ccs mgs rfc


    83. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 9:11 pm

      I sure hope they do have a trial and
      at least give the 3… 8 years.

      She WAS raped, and
      that can be proven.

      If this thing concludes without a trial…


      It is sure fire death sentence
      for three…or four
      most likely by

      If the Aruban-Dutch think for
      one minute that they are going
      to walk scot free after all
      the QUANTAM A$$ LOADS
      of INSANE bullcrap
      that has transpired
      with this TRAVESTY
      OF JUSTICE in this case…

      If they think they can spill
      American blood, and then play
      footsies around Aruba’s poor
      excuse for a legal system &
      get away with it all…

      …they done fired up ONE

      It is a SURE FIRE death sentence
      for all involved,
      if that happens.

      My guess would be on all four,

      as to cover all the possibilities.

      EXECUTION via an
      assassination hit. IMO


    84. yoyo muffintop on January 22nd, 2007 9:15 pm

      #45 vicki – I am not dutch, nor do I think americans are stupid. But coffee and a pinner on a saturday morning is kind of appealing.

    85. zerep on January 22nd, 2007 9:23 pm

      looks like 83 pretty much issued a death threat against 4 people.chill the f**k out man.i guess you could be a hero to a few dozen fanatics…but its not worth 30 years in prison bro.


      SM:   Carpe is not issueing a threat, he’s saying that not prosecuting them MAY result in someone taking matters into their own hands.   Carpe wouldn’t do that nor would anyone I know.   I do know there are people in this world that do those kinds of things.   You are correct, not a wise thing to to. Unfortunately for them, whether they are prosecuted or not, the suspects will remain forever guilty to many.   (klaasend)

    86. Janet on January 22nd, 2007 9:25 pm

      72. Mere
      According to Aruba Tourism Authority …. it is all about tourism …. not justice for a missing American citizen.
      November 19, 2005
      Aruba Tourism Authority wants to ask the community of Aruba to cooperate by not posting negative, vengeful, destructive and/or threatening messages on its ‘bulletin or message board’ of the official website of Aruba or any other website.
      This type of message creates a negative reflection of the community that could and is affecting Aruba’s image to potential tourists.
      Aruba Tourism Authority has received notification that some travel agents who have said that they support and promote Aruba, but the fact that there are apparently people who are of who have said that they are from Aruba who are posting extremely negative messages. They have also expressed that they don’t want any American to come to Aruba anymore.
      To avoid this, post positive messages that demonstrate that Aruba is a good and civilized country. Despite of everything, we cannot forget that more than 70% of our visitors come from America.

      [translated by Getagrip]

    87. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 9:39 pm

      Hey Richard, sir:

      You wrote-

      Doesn’t it seem odd that Deepak should specifically mention to this guy how much money Natalee had in her purse? (Besides the question of how he would know…)

      1. Yes, extremely odd! THESE BOYS KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE AND ARE STILL NOT TELLING! Like that is new news, right? These boys are SCUM for withholding this EXTREMELY important information. They should be jailed still FOR THAT REASON, AND THAT REASON ALONE. Right effin now, right
      this minute.

      2. If my memory serves me right, Natalee’s girlfriends
      said she had the money on her… but not a purse. Am I
      correct, or have a grabbed a hold of some misinformation here? -J4N

    88. Oren on January 22nd, 2007 9:41 pm

      82…Do you know when those condos will be finished?I hear that the ones by Carlos and Charlies are very nice.You can see the cruise ships when the dock.Those were going for $250,000 2br 2bath.Are these new ones on Eagle Beach?


      SM:   Who cares? (klaasend)

    89. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 9:50 pm


      I recall Natalee’s girl friends said she took her license and $50.00. They said, and it is known that girls do not want to take purses when they go to clubs. I also recall she did not take a phone.

      Does anyone recall that Joran said on the beach, where he left Natalee, he told her he had to go to school that day. Now, all of Natalee’s friends say that he told them he was a Dutch student visiting the island. Another lie by the sporter.

    90. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 9:53 pm


      He came here for free advertisement. Problem is they have no buyers interested.

    91. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 9:57 pm

      Hey 85 -

      They can’t manage to give
      these pieces of human refuse
      more than 90 days in jail…

      and you’re thinking
      I’m gonna get 30?

      You make me laff. -Satish Kalpone

    92. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 9:59 pm

      Paulus was a judge in training, does it surprise us, he may be made up of the same stuff that the judge who dis-allowed the search of Paulus residence. Remember Anita said they took her camera. What was on that camera and who really took it. Who took it and why? Was it taken and destroyed?

    93. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 10:00 pm

      lol klass!

    94. yenesia on January 22nd, 2007 10:02 pm


      I guess these are supposed to be the real deal.They start at 400K.You should be able to get more info at:



      SM:   Again…who cares? (klaasend)

    95. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 10:10 pm

      Everything is for sale in Aruba, including and not limited to judges. Have a good nite. I’ll be back in the AM


    96. ldstlou on January 22nd, 2007 10:12 pm

      Oren, you have GOT to be kidding me??!! Are you in sales? You have WAAAAYYYYY to much time on your hands!! Whats the problem? Business down??!! hahahaha Boy thats the understatement of the year!! Actually 2 years!! Time to get a new job huh?!

    97. yenesia on January 22nd, 2007 10:13 pm

      also Oren, they are on eagle beach. Great location but I hope all the investors are taking precautions. Make sure you have a local attorney and dont put too much money up front. The developer tends to use peters money to build pauls house and when people do business this way sometimes tony will be left with nothing…

    98. ldstlou on January 22nd, 2007 10:15 pm

      Holy Cow Klaas!! You have them crawling out of the woodwork!! You DEFINATELY have hit a nerve!! Good job Girlfriend!!! I think you have come real close to the truth with these photos!!

    99. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 10:23 pm

      Hotels being built or renovated….BFD. All that glitters isn’t gold and people see through that.

    100. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 10:24 pm

      g’nite MS_U!

    101. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 10:27 pm

      And if they don’t we’re always gonna be right here to gently steer them away from you blackhearted ugly island.

    102. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 10:31 pm

      As GRAM23 would say:

      “Pack Up Your Trash Bags Boys, You Are Going Down!”

      g’nite miss-u, sweet dreams.


    103. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 10:31 pm

      Klaas -

      Why are you allowing this crap from Oren ?

      To Oren: Email Red To PAY For An Ad At SM



      SM:   Sorry, you are right..I should have deleted it.   It just felt so good to say WHO CARES :)   (klaasend)

    104. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 10:33 pm



    105. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 10:34 pm

      Carpe, #87, you’re right. I believe she left her purse at the hotel.

      Oddly enough, and it’s yet another creepy coincidence, when Amy Bradley disappeared she had only her driver’s license and a $100 bill. Makes me heartsick to think of it.

      If we needed any more reason to re-arrest some people … both the van der Scums, true sons of the ditch, have said that they know more than they are willing to say.

      Let’s see Rammstein try to justify this one … different customs in Holland, I guess.

    106. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 10:35 pm

      So they’re building some new condos in Aruba?

      Big deal … there are always builders who go for speculative properties. Let’s hope they go bust.

    107. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 10:37 pm

      It will NOT be up to the Arubans or Dutch
      to decide how long Natalee’s case receives attention.

    108. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 10:37 pm


      That Was No Death Threat – Just A Tame Reminder

      So – When Are Those Kalpukes Coming To The U.S. ???


      SM:   On Deepak’s myspace site he lists his location now as Miami.   Wonder if that’s true? ;)   (klaasend)

    109. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 10:42 pm

      Thanks for the information, Seventh Dust. I hope that you realize that we don’t have a beef with the people of Aruba; only the ones that were involved in this investigation and the cover-up.

      I can’t tell you how disappointed it is to hear you say that Aruba thinks that it would mean a media circus for them. When we know, you AND I, that the media circus would have been over with a long time ago if the authorities had of put more effort into prosecuting the guilty. It just isn’t fair that a country that invites us to come to their island would treat us in this way. Natalee didn’t do anything to deserve this and neither did we.

      The actions shown by the Justice Department of Aruba has shown that they are not interested in prosecuting the guilty ones in this case because of favoritism that they have toward their parents.

      If Natalee gets justice in Aruba and all the people that are involved in the cover-up of this crime get punished for their actions; Aruba is better for you, as well, as for us. What happened to Natalee could have happened to one of your own. It could have been your sister, your aunt, your cousin or your friend. Those are the things that are important, no matter where we live. We are all deserving of a strong and fair justice system that will fight crimes committed against people whether they be American or Aruban.

      I know that the people of Aruba are upset with us, so the sooner that this problem gets solved, the better. If there is no justice, if there is no investigation into the corruption on the part of your officials, then, saddly, things will get alot worse before they get better.


      Yenesia, Oren: I am glad that there is some construction going on in Aruba. Perhaps, that will keep the common people of Aruba working, supporting their families. But, the boycott against your island must go on. We, certainly, are not able to do anything about these private investors that invest in property in Aruba. As you know, the only thing that we can do is to try to prevent Americans going to an island that is not safe.

      Right now, the people of Aruba are upset that their economy is not growing at the rate of other Caribbean islands, but, there is only one thing that can change that. The Aruban government needs to show the Americans that they have a system in place that protect the rights of visitors to their island as much as they protect the rights of their own citizens… that’s all.

      Dark Pen:

      Thanks for your post. I will write a letter to them as I am sure you have. It is good to hear from you again.

    110. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 10:50 pm

      Dickpik in Miami ? Doubt It Seriously ?

      It Is Very Expensive To Live In Miami
      Can’t Live Off Mama and Internet Cafe Salary !

      I Think He Just Listed That As A Very Lame Attempt
      To Appear Cool ? He Will Never Be Able To Get A
      Girlfriend Otherwise – (Unless She is Drugged of Course)

    111. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 11:00 pm

      When did the Dutch say that we could expect some news from them? Didn’t they say that they should have something by February? I’ve been reading alot, partly on my own and partly as a result of the very good information that Janet has taken the time to post (Thank you, Janet) and, from what I understand, the Dutch have had investigators looking into this case since day one. Perhaps, they are aware of the problems in the case in the way of favoritism and corruption and it won’t take that long for them to kick-start the investigation again.

      It hasn’t been that long since they officially took over the investigation, so let’s all hope that they have the fortitude to do the right thing.

      I haven’t been posting here that long, but from what I have seen, in that short amount of time, there is no doubt in my mind that there was, like the Dutch say, preference.

      For the family of Natalee Holloway, and her many friends, I pray for justice… and, secretly, I pray that Aruba is freed from the powers that be in Aruba. Just-us policies are not fair to anyone.

    112. artie on January 22nd, 2007 11:03 pm


      living in Aruba is just as expensive as living in Miami,Maybe he got a payout to keep his mouth shut about what happened.It would be easy for him to blend in down there,.no more stares from everyone on the Island.?Doubt they would have given him a visa though.He is not Dutch, he has Surinamese CARICOM passport which ispretty useless.(you need a visa to go to Holland)

    113. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 11:12 pm

      ***Note to Oren***

      Since You Slipped In Your Free Ad Past Klaas
      Go To The Forum And Click On –Paypal/Donate–
      ($1,000 Should Cover It)

    114. Mike on January 22nd, 2007 11:34 pm

      oren, i think you need to buy a couple of the new condos. i am sure they will be really gooooood investments. by the way i have a beachfront condo in nevada for sale and close enough to las vegas for you to lose the rest of your money.

    115. yoyo muffintop on January 22nd, 2007 11:40 pm

      Capt’n I – If this concludes without a trial why do you think someone would put a hit out on PJ2K? Nobody can even agree here on the who/what/why/wheres in this case. Shouldn’t that be figured out first? Morally it would be wrong (see above for all the talk about dutch morals).
      But in the end, people can do whatever they want – as long as they are willing to pay the price and do the time. Would any posting here be willing?

    116. nychic on January 22nd, 2007 11:42 pm

      So artie -

      What Are You Saying ? I Heard DPak Was On His Way
      Back To Suriname – Visa Problems ?

      Did His Attorney Clear That Up -

      Maybe The Suit Against Dr. Phil Bought Him More Time ?

    117. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 11:45 pm

      Thanks for the neighborly
      advice zerep.



    118. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 12:00 am


      Once again, I was reading the information on the State Department’s website and I found out that in 2005 there was alot of contraversy about that prison that the camera person seemed to be focused on for long periods of time. It seems that they had murder committed within the prison and there was concern about it not being operated in a safe manner.

      Do you think that it’s possible that the person that took those pictures was doing a study, or trying to look like she was doing a documentary on the prison? The reason that I believe that the film has graphics that are Jamaican is because it was probably processed there. It’s a sure bet that it would be too risky to have the film developed in Aruba.

      It is possible that the person was some sort of free-lance photographer or a news person… although it is usually custom for a news person to have both a cameraman and a sound person on hand.

      It’s too bad we can’t find out if there was some sort of documentary being produced that was centered on the prison. Or like you said some kind of investigation.

      I sure wish the people of Aruba were more helpful… it would make things alot easier.

    119. yoyo muffintop on January 23rd, 2007 12:18 am

      artie – not a chance aruba is as expensive to live in as miami. Miami is #39 in the world – didn’t see oranjestad on the list.
      (To the beginging of the tune of ICP’s “dating game” – Let’s play the most expensive to live game: San Francisco or Noord? NY City or Savaneta? LA or St Nicolaas?
      not a chance.

    120. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 12:29 am

      Seventh Dust:

      Do you remember hearing anything about a girl being
      murdered or going missing on the island of Aruba
      about a year before Natalee or sometime in 2004?

      Do you remember hearing about the bones, or perhaps
      a skeleton of a girl being found somewhere on the island
      before Natalee went missing?

      This is real important; so if there is anything that
      you remember, can you, please, tell me?

      Or – you can e-mail the information to Red, if you like. There is an e-mail connection for both Tom and Red on the right-hand side of the page.


    121. nychic on January 23rd, 2007 12:31 am

      NYC Is The Most Expensive Place To Live
      (maybe London England may be slightly more)

      I Can Personally Back That Up

      2 Bedroom Apt. In Midtown Manhattan $1.2 Million

      But If DickPak Currently Lives At Home With Mama Nadira
      How The Hell Would He Be Able To Afford An Apt. In Miami ?

      He Might As Well Get Used To The “Stares In Aruba”
      They Are Probably Way Better Than The “Stabbings In Miami”

    122. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 12:59 am

      Wow nychic!

      That is expensive! NO WAY do i believe Dickpak (good one!) is living in Miami. Can you imagine what its like for these losers on the island now. I don’t care what they say, their lives suck big time & they deserve 100 times more.

    123. Tazman on January 23rd, 2007 1:03 am

      Pics of fabric in cave looks like it has similar colors to Natalee’s blouse. I always thought the fabric the cop was walking with was part of Natalee’s blouse. This case isn’t going away so they better confess.

    124. Tazman on January 23rd, 2007 1:07 am

      Three blind mice,
      Three blind mice,
      See how they run,
      See how they run,
      They all went after
      the farmers wife,
      who cut off their tails
      with a carving knife,
      did you ever see such a sight,
      as three blind mice!!

      Three blind mice!!

    125. Tazman on January 23rd, 2007 1:14 am


      Pic of gorilla resembles joran

    126. nychic on January 23rd, 2007 1:29 am

      Check This Out:

      Transcript of Dutch America’s Most Wanted Show
      Opsporing Versocht

      Page 12 Is Particularly Interesting…

      What Happened To That Woman’s Testimony ?


      SM:   Good question. (klaasend)   Here is the part you are talking about:


      Yes, a woman called and mentioned that on Monday May 30th she saw four

      boys with sweaty faces and a shovel walking on the north side of the Aruban


      So we are interested to know who these boys were and what they were doing

      there. And of course, are there more people who have seen them as well?

      We would really like to get in contact with this woman again.

    127. Sparks on January 23rd, 2007 1:30 am

      The picture does have the green on the top and bottom of the item like Natalee’s top. Are there any pictures maybe of the bluejean dress or Joran’s sneakers? I keep on wondering why Joran brought up the part about leaving his sneakers? What about Natalee’s flip flops?

      I wish they would do a full investigation of the Van Der Sloot house for clues and ground penetrating radar.

      I was wondering if any of the Alabama teens on the trip verified Joran’s story at C ‘n C? Did Natalee motion Joran to dance with her? Did the Alabama teens ask Natalee to get out of Depaak’s car?

    128. Mortella on January 23rd, 2007 2:30 am

      #74 Rammstein,

      Mathews was believable and reliable enough to be believed by the World Court and be given a judgment against Aruba for violating his rights. At least he is more believable than Aruba any day!

    129. Mortella on January 23rd, 2007 2:45 am

      GBL must be ingested to act as a date rape drug is my understanding. Extensive information on the thread in Important Case Documents under the information being sent to Peter De Vries program. I am not sure if inhalation alone would work but according to the literature from several reliable sources including study of two university groups, it will act much like GBH when ingested.

      The advantage to using a date rape drug instead of something like cocaine is the amnesia effect. It really helps if the victim can’t remember what happened. Far less likely to go to authorities, etc. Most drugs on the island do not produce this effect, cocaine for example.

      I don’t know what it is but there is something very wrong with all the officials saying there was blood in the car of Deepak and then saying it was only cleaning fluid and chocolate. I don’t know what those suspects did but there is something very suspicious with this situation wherein even the Prime Minister says blood was in the car and then poof! Just gone! Nothing there but chocolate and cleaning fluid!

      As for these photos, something must be very very interesting for so many to keep going back and looking at them over and over again. What’s up with that?

      Did they recover the body and lie about that, too? I wouldn’t be at all surprised given their record for lack of truthfulness. And as MF was so kind to explain to us, the remains of another human being is just an object to them, not the mortal remains of the life of another deserving respect. In other words, anything goes.

      Respect for the remains of another human being is practiced by even the most primitive of cultures on the face of the earth, the nobel warrior who pays homage to his enemy, etc. Few display this utter lack of respect we see demonstrated by Arubans with their gory news photos and gristly attitudes. It seems to be their idea of some sort of sophistication instead of the barbaric practice that it is. Primitive, crude and atavistic. But I wouldn’t doubt they did find remains and just did away with them in some more permanent manner with all parties knowing full well what was happening.

      No, this will not go away. It will leave Aruba in a sort of suspended animation with the whole world thinking of them as druggers, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, heavy batterers and such as that forever. Last chance to get it right, Aruba, or forever be known by your crimes.

    130. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 5:38 am

      What may be significant about Deepak’s listing his place of residence as Miami is that it seems to be a city that appeals to lots of people from the Caribbean, including drug traffickers. Remember the video of Deepak being seen in front of C&Cs with something in a paper bag, talking furtively with other Aruban kids?

      When he looked up and noticed that he was being filmed, he took off. This was months after Natalee vanished.

      One wonders what might have been in that paper bag … of course, far be it from me to suggest anything suspicious.

    131. Miss-Underestimated on January 23rd, 2007 8:30 am

      Deepship is Miami, naw that is another form of taunting.

      “Looky I’m in your country”

      Deepship like Carpe said pack em. Let’s see the smile now.
      Hold still Deepickel, say ” Furmagio”

    132. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 8:52 am

      I find this part of Janet’s post especially interesting:

      “post positive messages that demonstrate that Aruba is a good and civilized country. Despite of everything, we cannot forget that more than 70% of our visitors come from America.”

      Seems to me that you guys DID forget it … not to mention the adage that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. (I think that was P.T. Barnum, but I’m not sure.)

      Say, Rammstein, I hope you went out and checked the dikes this morning, and volunteered to help anyone who’s been holding back the water overnight.

      If that’s out of the way, maybe you could start working on some letters to your government to display your concern about their inaction on the Natalee Holloway case, in which they now have the lead role?

      Nothing personal, but if you don’t, some people here might begin to wonder why it is that you keep telling us that the Dutch can’t do anything, the Arubans can’t do anything, etc.

      Remember, you represent the intellectual heritage of Grotius.

    133. vicki on January 23rd, 2007 9:14 am

      Carpe, I am with you. If these four walk..Im sure there will be a hit out for them and personally I feel it would be a shame. I would like to see them tortured and hung upside down and then slowly cut off their toes and then knees and then do a lorraina bobbit on them and just leave them like that till they die…oh wishful thinking on my part…..they will NOT be persued by the Dich or the lierubans so that means …take matters into your own hands. Lots of vigalantes[sp] out there.

    134. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 9:25 am

      Meanwhile, here’s a partial list of pejoratives associated with the Dutch: Dutch treat (no treat at all), Dutch courage (engendered by alcohol), getting into Dutch (trouble), talk like a Dutch uncle (scold) and double Dutch (double talk but also in New York a two-rope jump-rope game)

      It is, however, only fair to point out that, when I lived in Thailand, what we call a “Dutch treat” is there referred to as an “American treat.”

    135. Miss-Underestimated on January 23rd, 2007 10:31 am

      Hey Richard

      What about Dutch Oven?

    136. Molly on January 23rd, 2007 12:07 pm

      My first reaction to these pics is: Throw up! If Natalee didn’t meet her demise in this cave, someone did. Someone needs to do a DNA of this cave.

      #133: Vicki, I feel pretty much the same way. “Vengeance is Mine, says the Lord, I will repay.” God does a really good job of it, so I hope the He goes for it.

      Justice for Natalee
      Boycott Aruba Forever!

      molly (in Houston)

    137. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 12:12 pm

      Vigilante Justice:

      Is not justice…

      just a bi-product

      of no justice at all.

      Boycott Aruba

    138. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 12:20 pm

      “Yes, a woman called and mentioned that on Monday May 30th she saw FOUR BOYS with SWEATY FACES and a SHOVEL walking on the north side of the Aruban island. ”

      From Opsporing Verzocht

    139. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 12:22 pm


      Where is YOUR letter to the queen or PM?

    140. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 12:43 pm

      To quote Mortella:

      “It’s not over until WE say it’s over. ”

      Well said and true.

      It’s not over until NATALEE GETS JUSTICE.

      Got that, Aruba?

    141. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 1:08 pm

      lol Miss-U~

    142. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 1:14 pm

      I remember the lady seeing the sweaty boys with shovel but i’m thinking what was the lady doing in that area? The most northern part near the lighthouse. Maybe working at the restaurant there?

    143. Miss-Underestimated on January 23rd, 2007 1:34 pm
    144. vicki on January 23rd, 2007 1:38 pm

      HEY ARUBA-
      Judge Roy Moore-edited by me

    145. vicki on January 23rd, 2007 2:05 pm

      Im here Miss U

    146. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 2:06 pm

      Well, I didn’t mean to upset anybody…
      I am just predicting what I see to be the
      inevitable if this concludes w/out some
      sort of resolution for Natalee and her family.

      At the conclusion of this, if there is still no
      suitable resolution… It’ll leave a lot of people
      upset that they were patient, and tried their best
      to respect Aruban Law(lessness) and still came up
      empty handed & with heavy heart & no truth.


      I am sure many would look upon an assassination
      of the guilty, a public service. A gift to the community
      of sorts.

      It seems to be the only language the Arubaan-Dutch understand. Vicious, psychopathic style,
      gangland brutality on your fellow man.

      …and when in Rome…

      Hey Joe, You trying to lecture
      anyone on morals… is kinda like watching Marilyn
      Manson give communion in a Baptist Church.
      Hug your kids today, you still have yours.
      You are a lucky

      In my humble opinion, – one could gun down
      12 Aruban-Dutch perps and their lives would still not add up to Natalee’s. Those involved are worth less than flea dung. They are already walking corpses, they just didn’t get the
      memo yet.

      ARUBA – such a wonderful place.

      Come see the killing fields.

      Come dance in Aruba…

      If your going to Joran’s – pack light!


    147. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 23rd, 2007 2:07 pm

      Comment # 71 (altruist)

      I’ve been looking and searching for information on this Ben King, and you may have something here. Some definite weird stuff.

      More later,

    148. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 23rd, 2007 2:11 pm

      To all,

      If you will read past the first two paragraphs, I think this post will capture you’re attention. Much of it is old hat, but there is some new stuff that you may find interesting. This is the first time that I have been able to put all the pieces that I believe to be true together and have it make any sense. There is still one part that doesn’t quite fit (actually two). I’m going to continue to work on it, as I gain more insight in some very specific areas. There are in particular 3 posters that could really help here.

      Some have asked what I think. I’ll try all the possibilities. I’ll include the entire troupe and their probable or rather possible parts, although evidence is insufficient to prove or predict their exact role, and this is conjure on my part. It’s writing, where nothing can be proven and where the writer (myself) is not trying to prove it. It may be 80% correct, if each name and each event is assigned a number of equal value.

      First to Richard, you may have something that Natalee was taken captive and transferred off the island alive. I read your reply to my last post, and I understand; but I don’t imagine this happen, unless the “Gardner” was implicated in it. I really don’t want to think about what happen to Natalee if this is true. This ruinous outcome would be worse than death. If this is a possibility, the Gardner was the pick-up man, and he took Natalee to an isolated point, where she was transported out of the country, to Venezuela, the Middle East, a Soviet block country, or Denmark, by fishing boat or plane.

      I believe that Natalee was setup, pursued, and induced for days (“I’m 19 years old. I’m an exchange student”). Joran’s evil friends (croupier, bartenders, DJs, etc), helped him keep tabs on the girls, and especially were cautious of any girls who had parents on the trip. Joran is known to always prey on girls and young women who are not with parents. 3 girls or young women have tried to press charges of rape, only to be frightened off. How many others are there? How many can’t tell their stories?

      Other girls from Mountain Brook High School were pursued. In specific, Madison Whatley and Ruth McVay. I think Ruth McVay did not go to Carlos’n Charlie’s that night. I’m sure that other Mountain Brook girls were hit on that night in May 05.

      Paulus seems to have craved Natalee, and Joran yearned for Ruth McVay. You can see this in the casino video. Geoffrey von Comvoirt wanted Natalee, partly out of revenge for Natalee’s derision to his perverted advances. This was also part of the reason Joran coveted Natalee. They had no feelings of curiosity or concern about Lee Broughton, at least not enough to make their attention turn toward her. Why? Honestly, I don’t know. She is very pretty. Maybe her personality is the nurturing, protecting, mothering type.

      1906′s believes that video surveillance equipment was erected in the girl’s rooms to observe the girls in secret and choose the one that was most desirable. Who was engrossed in the videotaping? Geoffrey von Cromvoirt. Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddie, Steve Gregory Croes, Michael Dompig, Andreas (sp?), and Guido Wever viewed the videos.
      Paulus-what a number. I just can’t believe the power base that this man seems to have. There is more than meets the eye. He is for a lack of a better word, diabolical. The guy amazes me (not in a positive way). His ability to get things done is beyond comprehension. Or perhaps, is someone else really behind his seeming immense power? How about the man who calls himself Ben King? He’s is the one that would not allow a search of the Sloot house, and at the time that Paulus and Joran were incarcerated, he was calling himself administrator of the prison. I have also read that when Joran went off to school the first time, that he and Paulus stayed in a house owned by Ben King.

      When Paulus meet Natalee at the Casio, he told Joran that she was the one he wanted. Papa wanted a little action. Mama was gone. Joran does it all the time, at least 20 other times. There was a row about which girl to select, and they narrowed it to three, Natalee, Madison Whatley or Ruth McVay and then to two, Natalee and Ruth. They resolved to obtain either or both if possible. Since Ruth didn’t go to Carlos’n Charlie’s, the choice was easy. Geoffrey von Cromvoirt got a little excited about Natalee since he had observed her via video in her room. He began to fondle Natalee on the dance floor.

      Did they drug her that night? In all likehood they did, but we know Natalee consumed a very powerful and extremely dangerous drug know as ethyl alcohol. Who could handle the amount of alcohol that Natalee drank.
      Yes, Natalee was not herself. If she wasn’t drunk, then how else could she have been? We know some of the alcohols she consumed, and that alone would have rendered her intoxicated.

      Why Natalee went to the car with Joran, I don’t know; but the fact is she did.
      Once in the car, I believe the assault on Natalee in the back seat was immediate and continued the entire trip in the car. Natalee realized she was in trouble soon after she saw her friends, but had no way out.

      As they drove around, Natalee’s clothes were torn and she was slapped and degraded. It is my opinion, that Natalee was not raped in the car, assaulted yes, penetrated no. A call was made to Freddie to call the others and tell them that they were going to Joran’s house. Paulus was already there. There was at least one, influential person with him. Other female victims were also present. Their identities I do not know.

      As they drove around, a stop was made so that the three males could relieve themselves. When all were out of the car, except Natalee, she made her cell phone call, and was stopped in mid sentence by Joran. (This phone call may not be real. I heard Dana ask Dave about the call, and Dave said it was not true. )

      I believe they eventually went to Joran’s house, and dragged Natalee into the house. She was handcuffed to a bed, and the party began. When she recognized Paulus as the “Judge”, her fate was sealed. One of two people, beat, strangled, and suffocated her to death.

      Paulus made a mistake when he introduced himself to Natalee in the casino.
      He should have taken potluck. It shows his degree of self-indulgence. His perverted amusement meant more than the life of a fully deserving young lady, and I’ll add to this. Natalee’s life is worth a hundred Paulus lives, and a 100,000 of Joran’s lives, even if Joran were the most moral upright, good, and deserving young man on earth, and we know he is not.

      Those in attendance at the party I believe to be Paulus, a friend or two, Joran, the 2Ks, Freddy Arambatzis, Michael Dompig, Geoffrey Van Cromvorit, 
Keon and Sander Gottenbos, Steve Gregory Croes, Andreas, and Guido Wever.

      As the party and night went on, Natalee was raped by whoever desired to do so. The other females were treated the same. (They were most likely murdered also; difference is no one has missed them or just doesn’t care.)

      When the party was over and the horn flies called their hormones into submission they had a big problem. Natlee was dead and lying on a blood soaked mattress in the Sloot residence. The mattress was loaded into the back of the white pickup and Natalee was placed in the trunk of Deepak’s car and driven to the rock area, California Lighthouse” area of Arashi Beach where her body was thrown out-possible with others. The area was well known, because a 7-year-old boy’s body had been thrown there over a year ago, and no one had found the body. The mattress was discarded in an isolated area where Joran had taken repelling lesions. Natalee’s clothes were thrown out along the way. This all took place in the early morning hours of May 30. Dog’s blood? Think how ridiculous that sounds. I don’t think so. Try cover-up.

      Joran and the 2ks got in Deepak’s car and drove to a small pond near the Aruba Racquet Club close to the Marriott Hotel to do some planning. This is where the arrangement to blame the two security guards materialized. They would bring Natalee’s body back to this area and then the guards would be blamed for her death.

      Joran and the others thought they were in the clear. So did Paulus, but when Beth, Jug, Paul Lilly (?), and Jug’s friends showed up on the early morning hours of May 31, they knew they were in trouble. They had thought that no one would be able to identify whom Natalee left with, and they thought they were in the clear. They never dreamed that parents of a teen-aged girl would care so much. The value that Joran placed on Natalee’s life was so miniscule. To him she was only a good time, a used package to be discarded. He valued her life less than his own pet dog that he brutally murdered and disposed of. You can begin to understand why Joran said things about Beth being Hitler. In his mind he was making Natalee out to be something not human and not worthy of respect and he felt killing her was justified, and not deserving of any punishment. You can see this in his pious attitude and complete disrespect toward Beth.

      On June 1,2005 thinking that Natalee would be found if left in the location where she had been thrown, they retrieved Natalee’s body, wrapped it in plastic, took it to the dump and buried it in the debris. Problem # 2. There was this guy “Junior” watching (where is Junior now?), and he was writing down the license plates. @(by the way, in one version Junior said that Karin Janssen was there. Intriguing to the max. see footnote) they pretended to leave and watched for Junior to leave. At the point of Junior’s leaving, they returned to the site, dug Natalee back up and placed her in the pickup. Joran’s shoes were soaked with gue and gunk, and he tossed them.

      After leaving the dump, a call to the Wever kid was made. Natalee’s body was placed in a family mausoleum at the St. Agnes church Cemetery, very near the rock area. It remained there for days, at some point it was moved to the area off the side of the road behind the fisherman’s hut, where it would have been found and blamed on the two security guards However, a friend of the sloots who worked in the police department (any one of 3) informed the family that the story about the guards was falling apart because there were videos from the hotel and Natalee was not in them.

      Natalee’s body was moved again. This time out to deep sea or for cremation with the help of Director Yolanda Wever. Friend of Paulus Van der Sloot. Instrumental in establishing a crematorium on Aruba , and if to the sea, with the help of Freddie, Steve Gregory Croes, and the Gottenbos brothers (possible also their father.)

      Why didn’t Jan van der Straten who was the initial Aruban police leader of the investigation, Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig or Dennis Jacobs
      find anything in their searches? Quite simply, they searched where there was nothing to find. Had they searched the house and the surrounding areas they would have found evidence. Had they ask the right questions of the right people, they would have hard evidence or—maybe they did.

      Will Natalee be found? No, there is only a small chance of that. Paulus and Joran have been acting so bold and audacious that I don’t think there is but a slight possibility that Natalee will be found. Unless, one of two things: 1.she was positioned in the missing cage from the fisherman’s hut and carried out to sea. The cage would protect the skeleton from being strewn and clothing might still be present. The last I heard from Tim Miller, he believes this. 2. She was placed in an old gold mine shaft on the island.

      Joran, may Natalee rest in peace and may you never do so.

      @ Months ago, you may recall that Linda (a poster here) said she lived near the landfill, and she saw Karin Janssen out there. How about this Linda?
      I know you saw Karin weeks, maybe months after Junior claims he did, but what do you have to say about this? It took weeks to get Junior’s story out, but it did come out before you said you saw her out there. Does Junior have any credibility in your opinion? I always believed Junior, and thus the reason for including him here.

    149. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 2:27 pm

      correction- you’re

    150. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 2:41 pm

      Mommy and Daddy VDS
      can no longer fix
      Joran’s misdeeds.

      Joran went way too far this time.

      And too many people care about NATALEE.


    151. Miss-Underestimated on January 23rd, 2007 2:51 pm


      Nobody’s on the beach, where is all those tourists?

      Waterboy, makes alot of sense. Do you also recall in a statement made by the slimy trio, that when they were driving with Natalee, they said they were watching porn on the DVD player in slimebags care , there in Joran said shut the DVD off,Natalee had enuff. Enuff what, cleaning fluid?

    152. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 3:28 pm

      Build it and we still won’t come!

      Who is going to inhabit the new condos?

      I guess someone got a good deal on land.

    153. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 3:32 pm

      And what are 4 sweaty guys doing with shovels in the wee hours of the morning?!

      hmmmmmmm I think we can guess!

    154. Miss-Underestimated on January 23rd, 2007 3:39 pm

      Looking for the other guys lost phone

    155. Sheri in Michigan on January 23rd, 2007 3:50 pm

      #34 – Miss-Underestimated:
      Aruba can be shored up into one sentence = “Aruba – No punishment and truths for its criminals – No tourism!!”


    156. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 4:11 pm

      Another thing that we never heard more of … remember that Dompig at one point was asking for some jogger who contacted the police station on the morning Natalee vanished, or soon thereafter (I forget) to do so again?

      Apparently this person called once and reported something.
      Nary a word since.

      Of course, I don’t know any more than anyone else here does about whether there actually was such a jogger….

      Another thing; apparently there was a report by a maid at a hotel (don’t know if it was the Holiday Inn) about several males (think the number was four, but I’m not sure) forcing a girl/women into a van. Don’t know anymore about it than that, and I don’t know if it was ever substantiated.

    157. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 4:24 pm

      Not to go off the deep end here, but the talk about the cleaning fluid makes me wonder what kind of porn videos Joran and the Kalpoes were playing. Can we assume that they were shared with the other Pimps?

      Too bad that we can’t establish where on Aruba these tapes came from. I would imagine there wouldn’t be too many video stores there, and even fewer that had under-the-counter types of things (I may well be naive on this!).

      Come to think of it … one wonders if friend Freddy was the producer?

      Anyway, the point was … could these kids, or some other of the Pimps, have had a fixation with chloroformed girls?

    158. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 4:33 pm

      “Someday” and “later” are here.

      It’s time for Joran to tell.

      And Paulus, just who are these people that would be hurt if you told all?
      Let me guess–your wayward son Joran, YOU, and all those involved in the

      Do tell, Paulus. We are waiting.

    159. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 4:35 pm

      Does Aruba really want to be known as
      Date-Rape Island?

    160. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 4:58 pm

      Wouldn’t bother me a nanosecond if these creatins were treated as they treated NATALEE. For the rest (however long that may be)of their lives looking over their shoulder. Catching the gaze of a stranger & wondering if its someone there to kill you. Hearing footsteps behind you and wonder if an ambush is going down.

    161. Janet on January 23rd, 2007 5:08 pm

      148. Waterboy (Re: your last paragraph regarding the landfill.)
      I do not believe that Natalee is still in the landfill but I believe she was placed there on June 1, 2005.
      Junior’s brother came forward to authorities on Friday, June 3, 2005 …. two days after Junior’s observation at the dump on June 1, 2005.
      When Junior came forward to Beth Twitty two months later with the same story …. ALE claimed that they had immediately gone to the dump and checked out Junior’s orginal story and …. found nothing. Keep in mind …. in two days …. knowing the exact location …. the “powers that be” would have no difficulty locating Natalee …. if she was there. I believe that on Friday, June 3, 2005 Natalee was again moved as a result of Junior’s observation ….
      I find it highly suspicous that Junior’s brother came forward to authorities on Friday, June 3, 2005 regarding what Junior had observed at the landfill on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 and ….. the Holloway and Twitty’s did not find out about Junior and his observation until Junior contacted them personally two months later. I ask … “What were the “powers that be” covering up?”
      When Junior pointed out the exact location for Dave Holloway and his searchers …. he described a child’s plastic pool that was placed over Natalee’s body prior to be covered by garbage. Dave and his searchers located this plastic pool …. but no Natalee.
      Junior also described a white pickup truck and provided authorities with the license number.
      Aired August 3, 2005 – 20:00:00 ET
      GRACE: And Jossy, have you heard any information regarding a search for one of those little kiddie pools?
      MANSUR: They have been searching for that. They have found one, and they`re concentrating on that area where this witness says that when they dumped the body, they covered it with some other bags and then put this little pool on it.
      GRACE: OK, I`m sorry. I didn`t hear that. Repeat, Jossy.
      MANSUR: They are searching where — they did find this — one of these pools, this pool, and they have been searching in that specific area because we have to remember that this garbage has been moved about quite a bit from that day on by big tractors and front-end loaders and whatever.

    162. Rammstein on January 23rd, 2007 6:14 pm


      #74 Rammstein,

      Mathews was believable and reliable enough to be believed by the World Court and be given a judgment against Aruba for violating his rights. At least he is more believable than Aruba any day!

      Comment by Mortella | January 23, 2007, 2:30 am


      Mr. Mathews got a few dollars because he was kept in isolation for too long, at least as far as European human rights laws are concerned.

      In the US he would have had the exact same treatment and there it would have been considered “super-maximum prison”. And secondly he was released earlier by the presiding dutch court due to these (for European settings) harsh prison conditions.

      The only thing that was truly “wrong” was the bad condition of the jail cell although some people in countries like the US support keeping prisoners in tents, in pink underwear and stuff like that.

      Mr. Mathews got everything he deserved IMHO and should not have been awarded a penny. He was not discriminated against IMHO. He was a dangerous violent animal that was only treated as harshly as he was because of his own misdoings.

      Mr. Mathews is a common criminal if you ask me.

    163. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 6:22 pm


      Did you write your letter to the queen yet?

      I think you mentioned that you would write a “proper” one and post it.

    164. Maggie on January 23rd, 2007 6:29 pm

      Something great for mothers to say, what kind of girl gets in a car with my son. I have 3 sons, I would never make that statement unless I thought my son was bad news. Kind of like her son don’t drink or smoke, she would be the first to recognize it if he did. I remember Anita laughing on ABC when she said Joran put the girl on the beach.

      I too remember Joran say he had to go home so he left her on the beach, because he had to get up for school or tests. Why would he say that if the told them he was a 19 year and a soccer player from Holland. The next night he’s out gambling again and claims they were on their way to another casino after 2 am when Paulus called and said the police were there. No big hurry to get home that night for school the next day. They put the Funk in DisFUNKshunal. Loonie toons.

    165. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 6:30 pm

      “Welllll… there YOU GO again.” -Reagan

      It alllllllllllll goes back to the
      pink underwear thing with you. :roll:

    166. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 6:49 pm

      Hey Maggie!

      I remember Anita’s last televised interview with Kimberly on The Line Up. Anita looking skyward tells Kimberly that at night sometimes she can’t sleep & says aloud “Natalee….Natalee…..where are you?

      It was just to much.

    167. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 6:51 pm

      lol Carpe!

    168. Maggie on January 23rd, 2007 7:06 pm

      lol Carpe..

      Truth be told, Anita couldn’t sleep and stayed up at night looking for her see through blouse that was misplaced, but never saying Natalee where are you.. They need to take their act to broadway. First place in the Horror division.

    169. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 7:20 pm

      HaHaHa Maggie!m Looking for a see/thru blouse!

    170. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 7:25 pm

      I just read on Michelle’s blog that S. Croes was a suspect in the disappearence of Amy Bradley! Is that for reals? Coz thats news to me!

    171. Observer on January 23rd, 2007 7:32 pm

      I guess we will never know about that landfill and if natalee was ever there. Hard to forget the story junior told us or the suspicious activity back then. He gave a very detailed story and helped search in awful conditions.It seems like every search they did was closely regulated or sabataged.Was a white pickup or jeep used to dispose of natalee?

      We know the ALE was no help at the landfill and looked like they were hiding something

      1.Aruba issued a new law requiring a permit to dig at the landfill.
      2.Suspended all activity because they said TES started a fire.
      3.Suspiciously someone filled up the holes after searchers spent a few weeks working there tail off.

    172. gulf to bay on January 23rd, 2007 8:03 pm

      Anita looks like a linebacker from the 60′s football era. The son and dad are both goofballs that think they can prey on tourist because the friends will get them off no matter what. I still feel that Karma has yet to lay her few cards. Lets see if the dutch investigators say no way are you bo zos going to make us look like fool and press charges. If they are out to do the job and do whats right for the good dutch and good arubans and good american etc then they will press charges and bring everyone to trial. If they dont then they are all cowards and will someday pay the price. The police statements say it all. And the Van der Sloots have been able to send everyone on wild goose chases then recently say someday i will tell but not now. As its would be crucial to solving this crime. But they can withohold information. This is deep fellas real deep. I bet right to the top of the judicial people. All you goofy perverts are going down. Cmon new investigators show some truth to this charade your homies have been playin down there. Time to make the name good again. Its part of your heritage. Show us something.

    173. Janet on January 23rd, 2007 8:25 pm

      171. Observer
      According to the following witnesses who were in the area encompassing the Marriot Beach on the morning that Natalee Holloway went missing …. a white pickup was observed. According to Junior … a light colored jeep was observed at the landfill.
      Aired July 29, 2005 – 20:00:00 ET
      GRACE: OK. Jossy, is there any way to tie in a white pick-up to this scenario?
      MANSUR: Yes, ma`am, because there`s another witness that, before that, told someone that works at the hotels that he saw a white pick-up over there by the Holiday Inn, in which three persons were also in, all of them male, carrying what looked like the body of a girl, putting it in the back of the white pick-up and driving away with it.
      GRACE: OK. So you`ve got a white pick-up at the Holiday Inn, where Natalee was staying. You`ve got a white pick-up at the landfill. Both eyewitnesses state that there were three individuals, I`m assuming male. But can they give an identification of Joran Van Der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers?
      MANSUR: None of them have given that kind of a description. They haven`t identified the three males. But it`s very important to note that the witness on the beach by the Holiday Inn has absolutely no knowledge of the witness over there to the east side of the island by the landfill or dump. They don’t know each other, but still they give the same description of the same white pick-up.
      Aired July 5, 2005 – 20:00 ET
      MATTINGLY: Defense attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers tonight confirmed to CNN that testimony from fishermen telling investigators that they didn’t see a couple matching the description of Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot on that beach the night that Natalee turned up missing. What they are saying is that they saw a White Suzuki on that beach …
      July 31, 2005
      Miller said the witness claimed to have seen the men dumping the body on the afternoon of June 1.
      The witness, an Aruban man who claimed to be dropping off trash at the time of the incident, has been questioned by the FBI and Aruban police, Miller said. “He said he saw a face, blond hair and a woman’s chest, and that the body was dumped and covered,” Miller said. “his story has been consistent.”
      The witness could not identify the men but said they were driving a light-colored Jeep, Miller said. The witness told his brother what he saw soon afterward, and the brother told police, he said.
      Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip in days following Holloway’s disappearance, but found nothing. He said the witness recently approached Holloway’s family, who asked for another search.

    174. GRANDE on January 23rd, 2007 8:25 pm
    175. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 8:30 pm

      They worked against the family at every opportunity.

      While the family conducted the searches that Aruba should
      have been doing, the evil ones were covering everything
      up. They didn’t want Natalee found.

      The Kalpoes were afraid of D.N.A. especially, the younger
      one. Deepak is very protective of him. Have you noticed
      that? And… the Police are very protective of them both.


      So you got the “Judge for Hire”, in training, pulling the strings fromt the inside while the Police are doing their jobs of handling everything on the outside.

      Then you have Oduber, who just wants what Seven Dust
      (in post #72 wants).


      Oduber wanted the F.B.I. to leave the island
      and for everything to go back to normal again.

      No more media people hanging around taking pictures…

      No more digging…

      No more searching…

      He had had it up to HERE!! with the Natalee Holloway case!

      And Paulus and Joran,

      They’re threatening to tell EVERYTHING!

      Boy, O’ Boy!

      I wonder what do they have buried in all that sand?

      Beware of the Dutch Antilles
      Boycott Aruba

    176. Rammstein on January 23rd, 2007 8:39 pm

      well, I am still working on it. Writing a letter to the Queen isn’t that easy. I am looking for the right quotes from speeches she herself gave to use in the letter.

    177. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 8:58 pm

      I’ve asked about that pick-up before, because I have always thought that Natalee took a hit on the head outside the hotel and was then dragged off. Probably placed in the back of a pick-up and taken away. When she woke up, she was bound.

      The hotel guests had reported that there was a prowler outside and the Hotel/Casino locked some of its’ doors.

      The fact that Joran was throwing all that money around in
      front of his father, reminds me of the way that some people
      who are extremely wealthy and powerful act, after they have
      had a few drinks…

      Arrogant: like they can “Buy” you.

      They got her.

      And… everybody looked the other way.

    178. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 9:23 pm

      Isn’t the Dealer and Elvis at the casino
      Joran’s real friends?

      Deepak and Satish weren’t his running buddies.

      I think he just used them to take him to Carlos and Charley’s so he could meet up with Natalee.

      The real action was at the casino.

    179. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 9:28 pm

      #176 Rammstein,

      Glad to hear it and look forward to reading your letter.

      (I rewrote mine several times.)

    180. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 9:47 pm

      Lady Justice:

      I wrote mine but never mailed it.

      From what I hear from Aruba, she got it anyway
      and thinks its silly… she’s laughing.

      I know I sound like a fool, trying to
      figure out the great mystery… But I
      know in my heart, there are alot of
      horrible things going on in Aruba.

    181. Miss-Underestimated on January 23rd, 2007 9:51 pm


      It that for real?

    182. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 10:01 pm


      Great to see you posting again!

      So, are things still falling apart for Joran?

    183. JusticeforNatalee on January 23rd, 2007 10:05 pm


      Anita looks skyward and asks where Natalee is?!

      That is TOO rich!

      Why doesn’t she just ask Joran?!

    184. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 10:28 pm

      Hey Patti,

      I meant to answer your ? last night…
      I’ll do it now.

      I think think the ARUBAY Vids were recorded on
      a camera phone, or may be a older model hand-held

      With some basic off the shelf video prod. software on a computer… even freeware & Windows Movie Maker (a separate
      free download from MS) could get that job done. No fuss,
      no muss.

      Someone could put the video, music, and graphics
      together and upload it on to the Internet in
      a short amount of time.

      No need for
      sending it out to
      be developed.

      I have never heard anything about sending the video
      to Jamaica for production. Was that a theory you had…
      or did you actually hear that from somebody? I hadn’t
      heard of a KIA murder either. I hadn’t heard of a KIA
      murder either. Do you have a link on that? -J4N

    185. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 10:36 pm

      Mayan Moons (#170) … you can quote me on this myth, which has been refuted frequently only to emerge again.

      Steve Croes never, never, NEVER was implicated in the case of Amy Bradley. I have that directly from Amy’s mother, who is, I think, in a position to know.

      If Michelle is posting that, it’s irresponsible.

      The confusion seems to stem over the use of the name “Yellow” for his boat. “Yellow” is also the name of the band member on the Rhapsody of the Seas who is the person last reported to be in Amy’s company.

    186. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 10:43 pm

      I hear ya JFN!

      When i saw it i just wanted to reach thru the tv & b/slap that heifer til she spits it out!

    187. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 10:46 pm

      Observer (#173), thanks for posting that info. The first segment, about the hotel worker, was what I was talking about in post #156. Apparently this has just dropped off the radar, so to speak. And there can’t be THAT many vehicles of that kind or color on Aruba, for God’s sake!

      IF, of course, it is accurate and has anything to do with Natalee. I’ve often thought that a lot of the “reported sightings” were from people who might not have been too scrupulous about accuracy, but who wanted reward money.

      And people often can convince themselves that they have seen or heard something, especially if they want to help.

      Not that I’m saying anything is or isn’t true … but clearly, not all the reports floating around can be true.

    188. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 10:46 pm
    189. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 10:48 pm

      Glad to hear that you’re joining the team, Rammstein.

      If you want us to use “Mr. Rammstein,” I’ll gladly oblige.

    190. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 11:09 pm


      I think the witness at the hotel reported what she saw right away. I don’t think that she was swayed by the idea that there might be a reward… I’m not even sure that there was reward money available at that point. Just like the fact that someone had complained about a prowler that night at the hotel…. and if not that, for sure they had locked certain entrances to the casino.

      Observer: Do you remember? That was one of the reasons
      why Beth felt that Natalee had been kidnapped, wasn’t it?
      The employees at the Holiday Inn were forthcoming.

    191. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 11:37 pm

      Ahhh okies Richard….thanks. I was like huh coz i’ve been all over the news about Natalee from day 1 tv wise & more on the net after the Judge let the 3 scallywags frun out the backdoor of the courthouse and this is the first i’m hearing of it.

      I do know i’ve watched an hour long show about Amy’s disappearence & never heard of S Croes name at all. Here’s what gets me, Amy was on her own balcony of their stateroom right? Her brother or father was the last to see her until morning and she was just *gone*. Its this brazenness of these people is so alarming. Until Natalee….Amy is the only other person i’d ever heard went missing on a vacation.

    192. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 11:47 pm

      OT for a minute

      Was so happy a Miss jury not only found in favor of the first of many familys getting screwed my their ins. & took the company to court but they were awarded punitive damages aswell. This freaked the ins co.’s out & want to have a mass settlement with the over 600 familys in Miss alone. Its been almost 18 months for these poor people had their entire lives ripped out from under them & the ins stalled, lied about wind verses rain, keeping the moneys these people PAID them all these years.

      YAY I hope they get their money like Yesterday!

    193. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 11:48 pm

      Hey Nychic-

      Ix nay on the can of ithole shay. Maybe
      class still has it in her bucket? I love
      that one too. -J4N

    194. mayan_moons on January 23rd, 2007 11:58 pm

      I think about Beth in those first days looking for Natalee. Even through the fear, confusion and desperation she did her best to reach out to the people of Aruba, she tried to humanize herself & Natalee & show they weren’t just a generic tourist. Doing the same things you or i would be doing if it had been us.

      But i’ve been reading early posts from a few sites and very early….a week tops there was so much verbal attacking on Beth & Natalee. It comes across to me like this was their script.

      Does anyone know the names of the 2 people that drowned in Aruba in the last few months? I’m even wondering if there is something up with that…..there is just nothing i wouldn’t put past these people.

    195. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 12:01 am

      lol Carpe you crack me up!

      thanks for the email! ;)

    196. Patti on January 24th, 2007 12:15 am

      Observer was there in Aruba… she should know.


      I’ll try to find it. I know it was in the State Department country reports. I think that someone was killed or they were experiencing alot of violence in the prison. I believe their problems started in 2004 and were addressed again in 2005.

      About the pictures – I thought that it was film and that it had been delivered to someone. I was not aware that they were pictures that appeared on the internet one day.

      I was simply reading on the State Department site and remembered that you had said that he/she had taken several still shots of the prison.

    197. Observer on January 24th, 2007 2:09 am

      Patti..Must be two observers..I have never been to aruba :)

      From what I remember there was also a witness who said he helped bury her and they used a white pickup. Last I remember we were told he was in a mental hospital.

      Another witness reported that they saw a body behind the marriot(Or HI) and it was put in a tarp.I beleave they worked for the hotel.These might be the same story.

      I remember Junior wrote down a license number that he saw at the dump.It checked out as a Govt truck or ALE I cant remember which.The ALE said it was impossible that vehicle was there that day.

    198. Richard on January 24th, 2007 7:40 am

      Mayan Moons (#191) … I don’t have time to go into the full story, but Amy left her family’s stateroom as the ship was docked in Curacao. Two high school girls on the trip reported seeing her with “Yellow,” a band member (Amy herself was musically talented), going to the ship’s disco (which was closed at the time to the public).

      A bar in the lower part of the disco was also closed, but one woman on the cruise was there drinking with crew members. She has said that she saw Amy and Yellow go to the disc jockey’s part of the disco (which was not visible to her, where she was sitting).

      “Yellow” came down to the bar, picked up ONE drink from the bartender, and went back upstairs, again out of sight. Soon after, he turned off the lights and turned the music up very loud. The woman didn’t think any more of it.

      From the disco, a freight elevator runs to all parts of the ship, including the below-deck storage areas. Remember, these liners are huge. The suspicion is that Yellow gave her a drugged drink, took her down in the elevator to a storage area, possibly bound and gagged her and put her in some kind of trunk or other receptacle, and in conjunction with others got her off the ship that way.

      All sorts of items (trash, laundry, etc.) are loaded and unloaded at ports, and nobody would take an interest in such a routine event. Certainly there would be no security.

      Later on, after the family realized that Amy was missing and went to look, her brother Brad was on an upper deck looking around. Yellow and a crew member went up to him, and Yellow said he was sorry to hear about Brad’s sister.

      That comment was made ten or fifteen minutes before any announcement of any kind was made. Curious, don’t you think?

    199. Richard on January 24th, 2007 7:53 am

      By the way, MM, sooner or later the question comes up, “How do you know Amy didn’t run away?”

      Answer: At no time did she indicate any interest in any of the crew members who were “after” her since the cruise began. She told her mother that she thought they were “a bunch of creeps.”

      Also, she was scheduled to begin a new job upon her return home, had moved into an apartment, was buying souvenirs on the cruise to take home and sent several postcards to friends back in Virginia, saying “I’ll be back Monday” or similar messages.

      She had no friends in or knowledge of the Caribbean, and the impression that the family got from their one day in Aruba, where they went driving around by themselves in a rented vehicle (Amy was not interested in going to C&Cs with the crew members who asked her, and cited that place specifically … not just ‘Let’s go on shore’), was anything but favorable.

      The FBI also said she did not fit the profile of runaways.

      So apart from mythmaking, I think the answer is clear.

    200. DennisAOK on January 24th, 2007 10:03 am

      Those responsible for the death of Natalee would never have left her body on land, where it was sure to be discovered. She most likely died from a bad reaction to a drug and alcohol, and was dropped at sea.

    201. bleachedblack on January 24th, 2007 11:30 am

      Richard wrote;

      “The FBI also said she did not fit the profile of runaways.”

      They may have said that at the time of her disappearance. I happen to agree with much of what you have written in an above post about drugging Amy Bradley’s drink, and abducting her from the ship. My question is this: Why has the FBI now taken Amy B. off their Missing Persons list?

    202. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 12:00 pm

      Paulus was sweating like a pig.

      (pigs don’t sweat by the way -
      that’s why they roll in mud.)

      He was sweating and running from the cameras so much

      He’d just been released from jail along with Steve
      Croes. (rhymes with Blues Clues – Steve Croes)

      Release date: 6/26/2005, Sunday.

      I believe they were released early as favor…

      (Steve Croes was let go too early and has had
      NOT EVEN CLOSE to the amount of intense scrutiny
      as the others. That is a shame, because I think
      he knows more than he’s telling too.)

      I think Paulus lied to Straaten saying that
      it was an overdose not a murder… Straaten
      took the bait, because Straaten is Joran’s
      godfather. There was a longterm family friend
      type relationship there.

      This case was compromised at every turn. The
      A.L.E. is like a rotten, wormy apple, rotten
      to the core. They treated the victim like the
      criminal – and the criminal like the victim.


      I think Straaten paved the way for Paul-ass to get out
      and track down the body. I think he did just that!

      He (PVDS) was basically having a nervous breakdown on
      cameras in front of everyone. Sweating like a
      turbo charged MOFO with a nitrous tank!!!! Innocent
      people do not act like he did. This was more than
      just being a little camera shy. Were talking
      full contact, hardcore sweating and nervousness.

      If she is not buried in the new concrete job in the
      backyard, her belongings are. Preserved in concrete,
      and one day we will find them.

      Certaintly Paul would not be so stupid as to dig
      that concrete up. He has to know that many people
      have eyeballs focused on his backyard now… and if he
      tried to move anything… he’d be in a world
      of hurt.

      Hey Paulus, here’s lookin at you, billy goat!

      You’re a disease Paulus… much like a plague.

      After people shake your hand, they attempt to
      boil themselves sterile. Nobody wants that essence
      de Aruba Scumbag Sloot clinging to them. It’s like having
      a most wicked case of the hippy dippy uber-cooties.

      You are shizzle, bizzle.

      …but hey, why am I wasting my time
      telling you this Paulus? You see it everyday
      when you walk in front of a mirror. You know.

    203. Richard on January 24th, 2007 12:10 pm

      BleachedBlack (#201) … I’ll try to find out about that.

    204. bleachedblack on January 24th, 2007 12:12 pm

      Chronic and excessive use of substance ie X, methampetamine, cocaine cause profuse and excessive sweating. Add to that the impaired judgement demonstrated the night Natalee went missing
      by PVDS, father of one of the perps……add to that the failed judgeship……

      IMO PVDS was likely using way to much of the product(s) Aruba has become known for….

    205. bleachedblack on January 24th, 2007 12:19 pm

      Richard,(#203)it could be because her whereabouts are actually known.

    206. Richard on January 24th, 2007 12:47 pm

      I checked with the Bradleys, and they also are puzzled. They’re going to check with the FBI.

      There’s no change in Amy’s status; she’s still missing. And if her whereabouts were definitely determined, I’m sure the FBI would let the family know. And then the news would get out.

      Honestly, based on what they’ve told me, I wouldn’t put any faith in the FBI to do anything.

    207. Richard on January 24th, 2007 12:49 pm

      Also, if something secret (like a rescue operation) were going on or were imminent, they’d let me know and tell me to keep my mouth shut. So it isn’t that, I don’t think.

    208. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 12:58 pm

      Richard i never believed for a second that Amy or Natalee ran away. Thats just the pat answer that Aruba has gotton away with up til now.

    209. downloadingdaddy on January 24th, 2007 1:04 pm

      #200 (Dennis aok)
      Why do you believe she has to be in the water? Some Serial killers have been known to bury thier victims inside containers and then bury the container in the concrete around thier pool or hot tub. Did’nt some new concrete get poured around the VDS residence right after Natalee dissappeared?

    210. Michelle Says So on January 24th, 2007 1:14 pm

      #185 Richard–

      My dear friend, please see this interview that I had with Rich Strom back in ’05 regarding Steve Croes. This came from his mouth…an ex-homicide detective and now PI. Please don’t call me irresponsible…now you are sounding like Bill O’Reilly. ;)

      M: What case in 1998?

      RICH: The girl that was missing off the cruise ship.

      M: You mean Amy Bradley?

      RICH: Yep. And I went to talk to the prosecutor back in 1998 to ask them to take this guy’s clothing, but Aruba said it wasn’t their case. They said if the suspect was on the island they would have done something. But the suspect WAS on the island, because he LIVES there. We got nothing there either. They just don’t divulge any information. They want to make it hush.

    211. downloadingdaddy on January 24th, 2007 1:17 pm

      Heres a very informative article about a father and son who both became killers of women and both buried thier victims in concrete in thier own backyards and both had thier own children help in the burial.
      I know it’s hard to want to believe that Paulus was involved but the evidence sure makes it look more probable than not that he was.

    212. Sparks on January 24th, 2007 1:20 pm

      To Waterboy,

      I think you have the your right on track as to what happen. Also, I think your right that someone high up is covering for the Van Der Sloots. I can’t see them having enough power or money to protect themselves.

      I just hope they make a mistake or someone comes forward with information.


    213. Richard on January 24th, 2007 1:33 pm

      Michelle, good talking with you. Rich Strom has talked with the Bradleys. They’ve reviewed this issue, and I maintain, again, that they are not aware of any connection between their daughter’s case and Steve Croes.

      He also told them other things I can’t go into here.

    214. Richard on January 24th, 2007 2:28 pm

      BTW … that last remark of mine might sound as if it had something about or against Michelle. Not at all. She’s one of the best people I know involved in the pro-Natalee effort.

      I just meant that there were things the PI told the Bradleys that I don’t feel at liberty to repeat here.

    215. Richard on January 24th, 2007 2:33 pm

      Sparks (212) … so the question is, with all the revenue loss and reputation loss that Aruba is suffering now, losing its main American market … WHY would anyone higher up want to cover for the van der Sloots?

      Seems clear to me that either Paulus has something from prior history in his files or that whatever is going on, other important people on the island are also implicated.

      Somewhere, swirling around in the case, is something that could really be destructive of a lot of people on Aruba, the smugglers’ island. Ties, maybe, to trafficking drugs … and/or trafficking women, which our own State Department Web site confirms goes on in Aruba.

    216. bleachedblack on January 24th, 2007 2:58 pm

      #208 Mayan_moons, I too agree. Neither Amy or Natalee ran away. IMO Amy was opportunistically targeted + kidnapped. IMO Natalee was targeted but for a different purpose.

    217. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 5:24 pm

      Hey bleachedblack,

      I concur with ya theory wise with both girla targeted, no question about it. The fact that Amy’s body hasn’t ever been located or any evidence she even died, coupled with her long absence & the fact that a man came forward to report his encounter with someone who looked just like Amy, makes me believe her kidnapping was for the purpose of sex trafficing.

      Here is why i don’t feel like Natalee was taken for the same reasons as Amy.

      The casino clip showing Paul sitting next to Natalee & talking with her….being very animated and one who in the casino video clip shown on tv and even though that clip isn’t showing his face you can tell that his entire focus on Natalee. I feel there is NO WAY Paules would’ve let himself be seen cajoling & hitting on Natalee by other tourists in the casino if the plan was to kidnap and sell her to someone. I think if selling her was the plan he wouldn’t let himself be seen anywhere near her.

      He wasn’t worried about the casino cam or other tourists seeing an old man hitting on Natalee coz Paul, just like Natalee thought she would be safely on a plane the next day headed home. So he felt comfortable in the open display tourists watching or not. I just don’t think he’d wanna be seen within a mile of her if the plan was to traffic her.

    218. dennisintn on January 24th, 2007 5:28 pm

      #2l5, didn’t oduber or rudy croes tell some reporter who was asking how a convicted felon like posner got a casino license say something to the effect that someone in the judicial dept. had made a “clerical” error in signing off on him? now, who do we know who has worked in the judicial dept. as something like chief clerk?

    219. Observer on January 24th, 2007 5:42 pm

      What connection does steve croes have with Amy Bradley?

      If you listen to the skeeters tapes.. Deepak confirms he has Steve’s cell phone number in his cell phone.Last time we saw Steve Croes he looked high as a kite but he denied again knowing any of the 3 perps in a interview long after the skeeters tape.

    220. Richard on January 24th, 2007 7:49 pm

      There is no evidence that Steve Croes has anything to do with the Amy Bradley case.

      Mayan Moons, trafficking might not have been in the plans … but it might have come up as the resolution to whatever situation developed.

      Besides, even if Natalee were taken off the island, it doesn’t necessarily mean that PvdS would have been in on it.

      Drug traffickers, with guns and their entourages, can sometimes interfere with other people’s plans. That, of course, may or may not be the case here.

      Also, we can’t assume that PvdS (if it was him in the video) would necessarily think that anyone would trace the encounter so fast. After all, remember … that tape didn’t emerge for several months, and apparently Posner was irate when it did come out.

      That in itself (the long delay in its being made public; Beth wasn’t shown the whole thing at first) is suspicious, don’t you think?

      Further room for wondering….

      Remember, too, the Chandra Levy case. By the time police started to look into it, the videotape that her apartment building ran of all the doors had been re-used (it lasted about a week) and any trace of her was long gone.

      PvdS might have thought the same would happen. I’m sure he never thought Beth and Dave would be on his heels so fast.

    221. Richard on January 24th, 2007 7:52 pm

      In re Amy Bradley, by the way, the harbor was searched for three days and no sign of anything emerged. So we feel safe in ruling that out. Remember, when she vanished the ship had just docked.

    222. Sparks on January 25th, 2007 1:50 am

      Hi Richard,

      I wasn’t going that way but it would make sense that paulus may having info on wrong doing. Just how much can it go on with the boycott of Aruba and the lost tourism?

      It is very strange that the security gaurds have not sued the Van Der Sloots, or Arubian Police for false statements and arrests but Paulus gets an reward for being arrested.

    223. nychic on January 25th, 2007 2:10 am

      #200, 209, 211

      Worth Another “Look” IMO

      And That Ain’t Our “dennisintn”

      I’ll Say It Again:

      They Could Not Get Sander or Koen On The Phone

      Too Many People Were Watching

      The “MO” For Body Disposal In Aruba: On Your Own Property

    224. downloadingdaddy on January 25th, 2007 2:57 am

      If they would just search the VDS residence (paying close attention to the concrete around the pool) Then I think this case would be resolved. I wish I knew how to make Aruba or Holland take action but I don’t, I am completely bewildered by thier complacency and can only believe that the corruption runs so deep that everyone is too concerned for thier personal safety to say anything.

    225. Richard on January 25th, 2007 11:54 am

      That comment by Oduber about Posner getting a license to operate a casino owing to a “clerical error” … uh, so does that mean in Aruba, once a typo is done, it’s done?

      Lamest excuse I ever heard for anything.

      The only clerical error would have been the size of the payoff.

    226. Sheri in Michigan on January 25th, 2007 6:20 pm

      #224: I agree with you. I have always thought Natalee’s remains were buried on the VDS residence. I doubt that P-VDS would have been sweating that profusely during the chat with Greta and Beth. He was outside in his yard and seemed VERY startled when they called to him by the gate. What was he doing anyway? I doubt that an innocent man with nothing to hide would be sweating to the extent that he was drenching towels!! I am wondering why no one was ever given permission to dig up the new concrete area. I think maybe some SM’s should plan a vacation ot the VDS while they are gone away on vacation and do a little digging, ya think? I wonder what we would find?!


    227. Carpe Noctem on January 26th, 2007 4:38 pm

      I think Paulus Van der Sloot should find himself
      real lucky that an ex-Seal or somebody does not
      assemble a team… and decide to help him a little
      bit with a search on the house!

      Ef you Paulus, you are one god awful human. I wish
      nothing good on you. -J4N

    228. dennisintn on January 27th, 2007 2:18 pm

      #225, roflmao, richard, when have you ever heard anything but lame excuses coming out of aruba. these people natalee’s family are dealing with are too damned dumb or lazy to come up with a believable lie. they just count on everyone being dumbstruck with the absurdity of the lies they tell long enough for them to get out of reach. then they think our memories are so bad we’ll forget all the former lies.


    229. nuntukamen on February 6th, 2007 12:23 am

      fantastic posts and great minds and thinking at work…

      does anyone recall a report from the marriot the night natalee goes missing about two guys forcing a female into a white pickup truck? can anyone confirm steve croes drove or drives a white pickup?…thanks

    230. mainemonkey on March 12th, 2007 11:33 am

      Hi Monkeys, re # 41 what about the cleaning chemical toulene, street name too-loo – the user pours it into a rag and inhales to get a high JUSTICE for NATALEE

    231. tommy on March 17th, 2007 6:55 pm

      leaving a girl alone on Arashi beach in the night is
      irresponsible and stupid. Unfortunately Joran vd Sloot did this and nothing more than that. Arashi beach is close to the fishing boats which come in daily from Colombia and venezuela. Imagine, a couple of Colombian men seeing a
      blond, young and drunk girl alone on the beach. It is very well possible that they took her and sold her in Colombia. Yes, even selling people is possible in that country. Focus on Colombia, it is very difficult but she sure is not to be found on Aruba, no way.


      SM:   Only if you believe what Joran claims, which I don’t.   Too many lies for a simple ” I left her on the beach”.   (klaasend)

    232. dennisintn on April 24th, 2008 12:52 pm

      #23l add too that, too many lies made up and told before they should have known alibis would be needed. tommy could be the new model for aruba’s new image in world opinion. “ostrich with head buried in the sand with megaphone sticking out of it’s butt screaming THE RIGHTEOUS SPORTER CAN DO NO WRONG, alternating with ARUBA IS CRIMEFREE”.

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