Natalee Holloway: John Q. Kelly Goes Back to Aruba as Karin Janssen Leaves Aruba


On the Record last night was billed as “New Developments in the Natalee Holloway John_Q_KellyCase”. For the life of me other than John Q. Kelly going to Aruba and talking to Karin Janssen before she departed to Holland and possibly talking to the new Prosecutor we are not sure what the “new developments” were. Were any mentioned? Anybody?

Attorney John Q. Kelly made some interesting comments regarding the fact that “the powers that be” we not going to allow Karin Janssen to finish the job even though she claims she wanted to. Does it make sense to change a prosecutor now so far into the case? Or will new blood some how make a difference?

  • she had made a request in writing, very much wanted to stay there, see this investigation through and she was told her term was going to be halted three years and she’d be returning to Amsterdam and she couldn’t see this through.”
  • she was upset about that. She — and I was glad to hear, wanted to stay on this case and see it to some sort of conclusion and they wouldn’t let her.


It was already known that Karin Janssen was stepping down as the Prosecutor in Aruba as her term was not renewed. One thing is for certain; Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe remain the primary focus and primary suspects. Read last night’s transcript from “On the Record.”


JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY: I paid a visit to Aruba, Greta.


KELLY: I’d gotten a call at the end of the last week from Karin
Janssen, the prosecutor indicating that her term was over, she was going to be leaving the island and going back to Holland as of yesterday, Monday. And, we both thought it would be a good idea if we chat a little bit before she left.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she want to leave the job?

KELLY: No she had a three-year term and she could have extended up to two years with the blessing of the attorney general, Fernandez Cruz (ph), down there and she had made a request in writing, very much wanted to stay there, see this investigation through and she was told her term was going to be halted three years and she’d be returning to Amsterdam and she couldn’t see this through.

VAN SUSTEREN: So, she sort of got fired, a little bit?

KELLY: She didn’t get fired. They didn’t extend her term and she was upset about that. She — and I was glad to hear, wanted to stay on this case and see it to some sort of conclusion and they wouldn’t let her.


If you liked this post, you may also like these:

  • Karin Janssen named Woman of the Year
  • Geoffrey van Cromvoirt to be Held for 8 Days in Connection with Natalee Holloway Disappearance
  • Joran, Deepak, Satish … No Soup for You. Three Suspects Remain Suspects in Aruba
  • John Q. Kelly and Beth Twitty on The Abrams Report (1/25/06): “I mean you know we were at such a disadvantage from the beginning. It’s just incredible”.
  • Witness Still Missing

  • Comments

    185 Responses to “Natalee Holloway: John Q. Kelly Goes Back to Aruba as Karin Janssen Leaves Aruba”

    1. Dana on January 17th, 2007 11:46 pm

      Nothing new here, Jossy reported the same news on my show two weeks ago, me thinks it was just a way to get Greta some ratings.

    2. Carpe Noctem on January 18th, 2007 12:02 am

      I love that friggin MUG SHOTTTTTT!
      lol She looks like duhhhhhhh WHOOO ME?????
      Which way ded he go, George. Which way
      did he go?

      They should have removed her from the case so many
      months ago it is not even funny! Even simply
      the APPEARANCE of not doing something in a case
      as serious as Natalee’s could be a ‘CAREER ENDER.’

      Byeeeee Kariiiiin, maybe they’ll send you home on a
      plane low on fuel? I hope so.

      She did NOTHING, not even blow in daily update
      calls with the family.

      She makes me sick. I hope
      she never comes to America,
      this women is a flaming horses

      I have been taught to respect and never hit a woman!

      BUT IF

      She’d be the one I pick for
      a nice fat effin punch in the face!

      Be sweet. -J4N

    3. Carpe Noctem on January 18th, 2007 12:03 am
    4. Scared Monkeys on January 18th, 2007 12:13 am


      I agree.

      I think Greta and MSM does a disservice to the missing person stories when they advertize these things by “Crying Wolf”.

      Just say you are interviewing the family attorney, maybe there is new news … not that there is.


    5. tuyvnsurvivor on January 18th, 2007 12:30 am

      I noticed Q say he knows he has been critical in the past, but they (those of corruption) are working at the case. No doubt I can ligitamately be accused of reaching, but I felt I noticed his ‘better’ satisfaction with “working”. As well his comment of he has a line of communication on the island. I liked the snippit of a report, as I like the case kept in the media eyes — good for keeping the presure on, as well I generally admire Greta’s talents. Was not exactly New Developements.

      Nor is the shows new Behind the Record segment interesting at all.

    6. Waterboy on January 18th, 2007 12:31 am

      To Karin Janssen,

      I don’t mean to be rude, well just a little. Here we go. Thanks for all your help. Thanks for the returned calls, and the words of encouragement to the family.

      Karin Janssen, the dogs will bark and howl, and the cows will pass gas and moo, all at the sight of you.

    7. yoyo muffintop on January 18th, 2007 12:44 am

      Maybe the new news is that the family’s attorney has admitted there is an active investigation still going on, contrary to what many here say.
      His last paragraph sure seems to imply that the family is not happy with lack of results so far, though. Me thinks JQK might be on his way out as well.

      KELLY: I’m satisfied they’re still working on the case. You know, I like dealing with Karin, I think she’s been honest and, you know they’ve team of 10 detectives that are working over in Amsterdam, that have been working for a couple months now, on the case. And I also worked with Dennis Jacobs and the team working in Aruba, for a while, on Monday in addition to talking to Karin for a few hours on Sunday.

      So, I mean, we don’t have result yet. It’s result-oriented business and until I have answers for – about the day, you know, no one’s going to be happy, but, you know, I like to see that there’s work going on still.

    8. Waterboy on January 18th, 2007 12:45 am

      To Karin Janssen,

      When the chips were down, you were nowhere to be found.
      When Beth needed your help, you were a clown.

      Now that you are leaving I say good-bye.
      Thanks for all your help and many a lie.

      Maybe you will need Dave’s or Beth’s or Jug’s help with a banker.
      Maybe if you are drowning, they will throw you an anchor.

      Good luck in all that you do.
      Remember, we will be watching you.

    9. yoyo muffintop on January 18th, 2007 12:51 am

      His last paragraph sure seems to imply that the family is not happy with HIS lack of results so far.

    10. minnesota dad on January 18th, 2007 1:03 am


      Please answer my post #50 on the prior thread. Thanks. md

    11. Molly on January 18th, 2007 1:04 am

      #4: I agree. I’m tired of “New Development” announcements. That is crying wolf. I get all excited and there is nothing of substance. Glad to hear the Kelly went to Aruba. Glad that he is still working on things although we don’t hear much for a long time. I personally think that Kelly was saying nice things about his Aruban contacts so that he wouldn’t ruffle any feathers. Still not impressed with Aruba’s efforts. Kelly can talk nice all he wants, but the efforts equal the results – still nothing.

      The wheels of justice are grinding too slowly.

      molly (in Houston)

    12. robots on January 18th, 2007 1:09 am

      karin sucks

      i hate her

    13. Frank on January 18th, 2007 2:06 am

      Janssen is an incompetent liar. She let her relationship with a murdering rapist deny Natalee justice.

      Just what “more than circumstantial evidence” did you have on the security guards.

      She couldn’t speak to Beth because she knows exactly what happened.

      May she rot in hell.

    14. Kat_Gram on January 18th, 2007 2:59 am

      John Q Kelly’s lack of results ?
      He is not a prosecutor on Aruba is he ?
      Is he a cop on Aruba ?
      How can he go in there and lay charges ?
      He can’t do anyhting, except wait for an opportunity.
      JKQ was trying to be diplomatic as he might want to try to have a good relationship with the NEW but same OLD prosecutor.
      Read what you wrote and that was a fairly idiotic statement, wasn’t it.
      And just what are your motives here ?

    15. Gabriel Leo on January 18th, 2007 3:06 am

      It’s about time!

    16. Skyboxx on January 18th, 2007 4:42 am

      Another rat leaving the ship?????

      We report, you decide.

    17. Houston on January 18th, 2007 6:10 am

      Apparently she did nothing to try to solve the case….I think she was part of the problem.

    18. Richard on January 18th, 2007 6:18 am

      The media are always going to hype anything that moves, walks or breathes. That’s the way they do it. The talk-show people jump in packs, and when nothing is happening they abandon things.

      Hopefully, those of us who follow the case here are different and will persist in our demands for action as best we can.

      Does anyone know anything about the replacement for Karin Janssen? Can our Dutch/Aruba friends help out in this regard?

      As for JQK, I’m sure that he realizes that he has to work with whoever is running things in Aruba (if anyone is) for better or worse. So I’m sure he’d like to make some remarks that would be impolitic, but he can’t.

      In my own view, if anything will happen it will be from the Dutch. Aruba has no intention of doing anything, now or in the future. Let’s continue to do what we can to persuade the Dutch to leave their land of tulips and dikes, get back over to Aruba and start doing things. They certainly could start using their “power of the purse” in regards to money for Aruba.

    19. Richard on January 18th, 2007 6:20 am

      Question for JQK: What is the difference between being fired and not having your contract renewed when you ask for it to be renewed? At least, what is the PRACTICAL difference?

      I hope that the Dutch government will be holding very intense talks with KJ very soon. If she is indeed so concerned about the case, then she’s in a uniquely powerful position to light a fire under their butts.

      However, it’s also possible that she’s telling JQK what she thinks he wants to hear … how concerned she is. And then chuckling to herself as she gets on the plane and leaves.

    20. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 8:27 am

      What is JQK going to say? I think the fear here is that the case will take even longer for the new pros. to get up/down to speed.

      I am reserved as to the motives of the Dutch to replace her. Hey Karin, you had the BOY by the short hairs, and you did not pounce. “I will tell you later”

    21. Leslie on January 18th, 2007 8:32 am

      She didn’t earn her paycheque. Good riddance.

    22. Richard on January 18th, 2007 8:34 am

      Interesting article today … aren’t we happy to know that this sort of thing cannot happen on Aruba.

      Man on mission to stop sex slavery
      Man on mission to stop sex slavery – story by Annie Rourke

      by News Channel 8′s Annie Rourke
      Posted Jan. 17, 2007
      10:08 PM
      (Hamden-WTNH) _ It’s a world-wide problem and Connecticut is not exempt from sex slavery and child sex trafficking. One Hamden man says no more. He’s taking action to stop it.
      According to the State Department the sex slave trade will soon surpass the drug trade in the United States. That’s because drugs can only be used once whereas women and children can be kept against their will indefinitely. It’s the harsh reality that a Hamden musician is now trying to change. He took a trip to Southeast Asia a few years ago and was so disturbed he’s made it his life’s mission to get the word out.
      Lamont Hiebert sings, tells stories and shows slides, but the presentation to parents at Spring Glen Elementary School in Hamden is more about education then entertainment.
      There’s one million children forced into the sex trade every year according to the United Nations,” Heibert told the audience.
      That’s two children every minute, something Hiebert has now dedicated his life to stopping. In 2002 he co-founded Justice for Children International to shine a spotlight on child sex trafficking.
      He gives speeches to schools, churches anyone who will listen, really to raise money for rescue agencies, safe houses and trauma counselors for the kids. Hiebert says, every year 20,000 sex slaves are brought to the U.S and 100,000 American kids are kidnapped and forced into the sex industry.
      “They’ve been beaten and starved and gang-raped into submission,” Hiebert said.
      You find them on the Internet, but more locally as well in massage parlors, escort agencies and underground clubs, hiding in plain sight.
      “You know what, if we don’t do something, they’re gonna set up shop next door to us, they’re gonna set up shop downtown, probably already have,” Hiebert said.
      Two years ago, Hamden police raided a now boarded up building on Dixwell Avenue. Dozens of sex slaves from China were working in a brothel masquerading as a massage parlor. It’s a growing global problem that’s crossing borders with one local man trying to make a difference one child at a time.
      “You don’t think of it here that you’re actually gonna see something like that and to have somebody bring it home to you is pretty shocking,” Michelle Humble of Hamden said.
      Hiebert is bringing out a CD this year dedicated to survivors of exploitation and abuse. If you want more information about his organization you can go to

    23. ayfit on January 18th, 2007 9:10 am

      KJ has done nothing,everything everyone is posting here is so TRUE.KJ is corrupt as is Aruba.Our laws do not apply in Aruba.Their laws are different.Their laws are designed to cover up and allow the quilty to walk.We might as well be dealing with Venezuela.In my opinion JQK is lagging as well.I mean what can he do?It’s like I said ,our laws don’t apply.JQK is one excellent AMERICAN lawer.He doesen’t specialize in Dutch law.KJ has done nothing-I stand corrected she has aided in the cover up of this awful crime.Natalee’s blood is clearly on KJ’s hands.

    24. Tazman on January 18th, 2007 9:21 am

      Didn’t Karin say way back in the beginning that she could still prosecute the 3 without a body? Didn’t she say there were going to be “fireworks” sometime last February? Isn’t she the one that is supposed to defend the victim? However, never bothered to contact the victim’s family? What about the Chicago tapes? What were her comments on them? What’s her explanation of the painting of the rocks? Who paints rocks out in the middle of nowhere? Its always easy to look busy when you’re trying to cover something up.

    25. 10061906 on January 18th, 2007 9:27 am

      No body no case means just that. Say a rush to eleminate Natalee by creamation did in fact happen. The Aruban Authorities cannot come up with the smoking bullet. Here Beth, we found Natalee’s body. Your daughter was attacked by a bunch of vicious thugs, but here are her remains.
      Just is not going to happen and no one will admit to that act.
      There were two many high ranking officials sons involved for the case to ever be solved.

      I still say this is how it happened.
      This point about parking behing C and C’c is very important. Deepak’s car was needed because it resembled a taxi complete with a lit dashboard globe.
      Why do you think they parked in the back parking lot? Why? If they were in the front of C and C’s someone may have hailed them for a taxi ride. Natalee was drugged and confused when taken to the back lot. She thought Joran would take her back to the hotel and willingly got into Deepak’s taxicab.
      When you analyze the circumstances above and beyond just a simple kidnapping, rape, death and cover up you have to be realistic and accept what might have happened. I also believe the the Twitty’s and Holloway’s have an understanding as to what happened to Natalee but have been held back by a certain world wide influential organization. I also believe the cover up is orchestrated by the parents of the perpetrators who belong to this organization and are attempting to prevent their boys from a conviction and jail time. This cover up is also being condoned by the Aruban authorities to promote Aruba as one safe island.
      This is probably orchestrated by Nelson Oduber, whose son is part of this organization. As long as Natalee is just a missing person they can continue with this charade.
      Even though Joran has admitted that he (and others) have done this about 20 times, I believe this was the first time the Kalpoes were involved.

      Parental Association:
      Jan van der Stratten was a police officer in Holland.
      God father to Joran van der Sloot.
      Williem Van Cromvorit was also a police officer in Holland.
      Installs camera surveillance equipment and runs a security agency(VCB)
      Geoffrey’s father.
      Paulus van der Sloot was in the legal system in Holland.
      Joran’s father.
      Karle Wever, director of a Funeral home that Paulus helped establish a Crematorium on Aruba.
      Possible relative to Guido Wever.
      Keon Gottenbos’ father is an influential insurance salesman.
      Gerald and Michael Dompig; father and son and related to the Kalpoes.
      (Notice: Not Dutch)
      Dennis Jacobs a narcotics agent who is head of a possible homicide investigation.
      Just a slug who got paid to make sure no evidence can be tied to anyone.

      I still think that the girl “Judy” who went to Aruba a month before Natalee could help in the investigation. She had her trip picture album on community web pictures and shows her with Joran and others outside of Carlos and Charlies. Could she have been date raped also, survived but does not want to get involved? She removed her album when Michelle Says So got too close. Joran still has her pix on his blog. (So do I all of them before they were removed)
      With her album and pictures from Joran’s site we can tie everyone but Quido in this pimps club. Other than Guido and Joran admitting to playing tennis together.
      Pictures include:
      Judy with Stage boy Joran.
      Judy with what appears to be Andreas.
      Hotel rooms with Holiday Inn Décor.
      Joran with the Kalpoes.
      Joran with Freddie.
      Joran and Koen.
      Andreas with Michael Dompig
      I do not have any info on Andreas other than his association in pictures with Michael Dompig.
      Michael Dompig with Geoffrey Van Cromvoirt
      Geoffrey van Cromvoirt in various Holiday Inn rooms with other girls.
      Micheal Dompig on other web shot albums listed as the Police Commissioner’s son.
      Notes in the photos by Michael and Geoffrey; “You would be surprised what we can get the girls to do when we tell them we are police officers.
      Pictures of Geoffrey in Aruba Police tee shirts. Remember Geoffrey’s sister is a police officer.

      Here are your suspects:
      Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddie, Koen, Geoffrey, Michael, Andreas and possibly Guido.

      Here is your motive.
      Of all the girls in the MBHS group, why Natalee? She is the one that has been noted as being accosted many times by Geoffrey and Joran both at C and C’s and the Hotel and casino and refused their advances. So if you are going to have a premeditated kidnapping and rape why not do it for revenge also and serve two purposes?

      Where did it happen?
      At the Van der Sloots home in Joran’s apartment.
      Natalee managed somehow to get off one phone call.
      When they realized that Natalee probably went into a coma calls went out for assistance to Joran’s father.
      When he arrived it was probably too late to save Natalee. The boys had probably raped Natalee by then, and could not call for emergency assistance because their DNA was all over her.
      Paulus probably called Joran’s Godfather Jan van der Straaten and the coverup begins.
      “No body no case”.
      Phone calls and ATM withdrawals in the middle of the night.
      Hearse can travel totally unmolested, delivering body bags, picking up bodes, dropping them off at cemeteries. Why would the pastor of St Ana Chuchuch make Dave wait three days before he would meet him?
      I also believe that the Lion’s Den is a den of sex and underage photography; however in this case I believe it is just a red herring. If you check the phone number at 17 Noord now it is registered as a Dental Practice.
      Dental Clinic H Hagens” “Drs h hagens Noord 17″ “586-xxx”

      Where is Natalee now? Since my belief now is that she was cremated, God only knows.
      Paulus is so proud of his watch collection that one of them could be identified as a Bulova with a black Masonic emblem on the face.
      You be the judge………………………….
      I say the stage is all set; we have to figure whom will provide the proof.

      I will be off for a whhile… just some food for thought.

    26. J Mansfield on January 18th, 2007 9:33 am

      Buh-Bye Karin! Don’t let the door hit you in the hiney.

    27. Carpe Noctem on January 18th, 2007 9:45 am

      I can not BELIEVE

      that they let her stay

      in office as long as they did. * UNCONSCIONABLE *

      SHE DID N-O-T-H-I-N-G echo echo echo


    28. joe bear on January 18th, 2007 9:48 am

      yoyo,shut up.I hope this change breathes fresh air and brings justice.As the flowers bud and bloom in mountain Brook,maybe we can have justice.

    29. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 10:01 am

      1906 Glad to see you post. Your posts are make a lot of sense.

    30. vicki on January 18th, 2007 10:07 am

      1906#25… I do agree with you. You have summed it up completly… I just really keep going back to LORENZO..I believe that Natalee was supposed to be transferred to Lorenzos place..that could be when something Bad happened or they were going to film and Natalee came to and then something Bad happened… I am just wondering early reports say that URINE kept biting his tongue to keep from talking. They say itwas all bloody…hmmm and then Papasweat… I will tell one day but right now to mant ppl will get hurt. Things that make you go hmmmmmm. Doesnt he realize that soooooo many ppl have been torn up already or does he mean just his friends. How selfish of you papasweat.

    31. Pearl on January 18th, 2007 10:13 am

      Karin Janssen stood by and watched as two loving parents and their families, faithfully did everything within their power to bring their baby home.

      Karin Janssen stood by and watched as two grief-stricken parents came to the island of Aruba begging for compassion, pleading for help and guidance from elected and appointed Law Enforcement officials in Aruba who had it within their power to HONOR everything that INTEGRITY, the LAW, and JUSTICE stands for.

      Karin Janssen had it within her power to take the broken hearts and crushed spirits of a grieving family,the sorrow of siblings longing for the return of their beautiful sister, the brokenness in spirit of devastated parents, and RESTORE some sense of healing to their hearts by HONORING the TRUTH of their child’s brutal suffering – a SUFFERING which the prosecutor herself, later referenced as: “HEAVY BATTERY”.

      Karin Janssen had it within her power to make a difference, to become a healing force and powerful catalyst for human rights – a catalyst for JUSTICE for THIS child, THIS victim, and for ALL children anywhere and everywhere throughout the world.

      And when the moment came for Karin Janssen to reveal what stuff she was made of, when the moment came for Karin Janssen to step up to the line and make a statement to the world about the worthiness of children to be heard and honored, she crumbled and collapsed, she caved in and sold her soul and everything that might have made her a beacon of HOPE, she failed a family suffering unspeakable cruelty, and a beautiful, vulnerable and innocent child who was beaten over and over again – in the final moments of her life as described by Janssen as “heavy battery”, and beaten again in her death, a death spoken of by men and women of honor and integrity (OUR FBI – who were the ONLY ones with any sense of moral decency to tell this family THE TRUTH about what they had come to believe concerning this beautiful child named Natalee.)

      But Karin Janssen still has time to being to HEAL the horrific cruelty inflicted upon this beautiful family, a family that came to her and stood at HER MERCY, needing her help, her wisdom, and every ounce of integrity she could muster up for this occasion crying out for JUSTICE!

      Karin Janssen’s final chapter is not yet written.
      For all the suffering she allowed to be inflicted upon this family, she can make amends, she can restore hope, she can ignite a fire of justice and an eternal flame of HOPE for ALL CHILDREN, by becoming a catalyst for Natalee’s justice.

      A shining example of WHAT honorable attorneys can mean for a family and the healing such attorneys can initiate on behalf of precious children victimized as Natalee, is exemplified by the INTEGRITY and DEDICATION of JQK to a young girl whose brutal suffering compels him to continue on in this battle for child’s voice to be heard and HER TRUTH to be honored and told.

      God bless attorneys with an honorable conscience, like JQK.

      God bless Natalee and her beautiful, courageous and dignified family.

      And may God’s spirit move Karin Janssen to herald the coming of JUSTICE, by refusing to place more obstacles in its path. May God’s spirit move Karin Janssen to ignite a fire for justice for Natalee, and become a healing source of peace for a family savagely tormented and unmercifully victimized with such vicious and brutal cruelty!

      Let justice roll like thunder, and let Natalee Holloway’s truth be honored and told!










      As for the ‘spinners’ who think they can measure up to the power of what INTEGRITY means nor the power it holds to HEAL and RESTORE, the spinners can neither hold a candle to the breadth and depth of valor and honor reflected in a man like JQK, nor can the spinners come close to the standards he sets for attorneys everywhere.
      Men like JQK EMBODY the passion and beauty of what the LAW IS and CAN BECOME at the hands of men with hearts of integrity.

      All a yo-yo can do is mimic the same empty patterns over and over again, spinning around and around, with nothing to offer at the end of the day but an endless barrage of zeroes in the air.

      March on, JQK! MARCH ON FOR JUSTICE!

      March on, for all that integrity and the law has to offer to a young girl named Natalee Holloway whose loving family places all their hopes in you to march for justice on behalf of their precious child!

      Claim this child’s truth, JQK!
      Claim this child’s justice!


      Justice for Natalee Holloway!
      Justice for Natalee Holloway!
      Justice for Natalee Holloway!

    32. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 10:23 am

      You nailed it, what does Karin want her legacy to be?
      What does she want people to remember about her actions or lack of them in the Natalee Holloway case?

      Karin needs to do the right thing. Bust this case wide open with what she knows, let the Holloways and Twittys bring their daughter home.

    33. minnesota dad on January 18th, 2007 10:32 am

      10061906 –

      I agree with virtually your whole take. I believe that the raped and abused Natalee was taken from Joran’s apartment to Paulus and Anita’s residence — this explains why Aruban judges interfered with the search warrant and disallowed the search of the sight where the final crimes were committed against Natalee.

      I reiterate – Aruban investigators never established a timeline for Paulus for the evening (and he originally stated he was out to 4am, but then as all of the stories were worked out changed it to 11pm). Paulus had a very busy night trying to figure out how to deceive.

      From this point, I do not disagree with your cremation theory, however it is possible that she ended up in the landfill, deep in the ocean, or even buried in Paulus’ backyard.

      In the end, Paulus is your perp. Don’t get me wrong….the ‘pimps’ should all be charged with rape and assault based on statements that are already on record (and, as Chief Dompig states, there is more than enough to nail them on this). The boys need to go away for eight years.

      Then, we will get some squeeling, and Paulus will finally get his 15 years.

      I still go back to how could they charge Guido W. with ‘heavy battery’ if they didn’t have a body? Why did Guido lawyer up with the most expensive defense attorney in Holland?

      The Aruban prosecutors know much more than what has been disclosed. It is time for them to act. I don’t know about others….but I would take the eight years right now for the pimps over the charade of 15 years (which isn’t going to happen because too many high-ups careers are at stake for their intentional cover-up of this crime). START THE PROSECUTION ARUBA. md

    34. Molly on January 18th, 2007 10:35 am

      1906! You have been thinking while you were gone. Wow, this is awesome. So good to hear from you again. Sounds to me like you are hitting all the nails on the head, right down the board.

      If Karin hadn’t ‘finked out’ on the Holloways, we would have had a conviction on this stuff a long time ago.
      Personally, I think that she put on the big-regrets show for Kelly just to make him feel better. I believe that Karin was threatened and went turncoat. She has been worthless to Natalee’s case.

      molly (in Houston)

    35. Carpe Noctem on January 18th, 2007 10:37 am
    36. Janet on January 18th, 2007 10:44 am

      John Q. Kelly’s appeasing words in the Greta interview regarding the Aruban investigation may be explained in the last sentence of the following quote.
      Greta On The Record
      January 16, 2007
      John: They’re working Greta, you know I’ve been critical of the Prosecution in the past, I’ve been critical of the police in the past, but the answers are down there. The only possible prosecution and resolution to this is in Aruba and anything that helps advance the cause here I’m going to do. I’ve got a line of communication down there and I don’t want to rock that boat.

    37. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 10:45 am

      Who knows what JQK really thinks and says in private.

      Perhaps he is being professionally polite on TV.

      I don’t know how he could ever trust Dennis Jacobs.

    38. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 10:49 am


      Janssen was either incompetent (waste of a law degree) or
      was being blocked at every turn.

      She failed to make MOVEMENT in the case.

      I am glad she’s gone.

    39. Freebrid on January 18th, 2007 10:53 am

      Karin is on Paulass’s payroll along with all the rest of Aruba’s top dogs! She is on the run just like all the rest of the people in this case! Holland must be the land of the free to do whatever you want.. rape, kidnap, murder, childporn,( let raping,murdering,bastards like Joran take cover there!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    40. dallasalley on January 18th, 2007 10:57 am

      “she was upset about that. She – and I was glad to hear, wanted to stay on this case and see it to some sort of conclusion and they wouldn’t let her.”

      Who is “They”?

    41. Carpe Noctem on January 18th, 2007 11:19 am

      Quick Aruba Blurb

      Dec 20th, 2006

      Jorge Pesquera, President of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association, said: “We need flexibility and agility and I think governments are better at some things, but the private sector should be charged with the execution of the marketing.”

      Vanderpool-Wallace added: “People in the public sector are seeking to make a difference instead of making money. People in the private sector are primarily interested in making money.”

    42. Pearl on January 18th, 2007 11:45 am

      JQK is absolutely right in saying that the answers are in Aruba. The Dutch have but one chance now to get it right, and MAKE IT RIGHT, because so much WRONG has been done to this child and to her family.

      The Dutch have but one chance now to either forever seal their names in the blood and brutal suffering of Natalee Holloway, and all the cruelty of crimes inflicted upon her AND HER FAMILY, or take a stand right here and now, and stand up for this child’s right to have her truth honored and her justice upheld.

      Indeed, JQK offers the olive branch and if it is not seized by the Dutch and Arubans in good conscience, and if GOOD FAITH is not demonstrated in their ACTIONS,
      this child’s voice will rise up over their heads and become a relentless cry for justice that will haunt their island for eternity.

      This child’s truth cannot be buried.
      They may have ended her life here on earth,
      and attempted to dismantle her truth,
      but they have no control over the life-giving force of her innocent VOICE crying out for her truth to be told and her justice to be honored!

      The criminals and co-conspirators may have allowed the savagery of unconscienable criminals to victimize this child and her family,
      in their attempts to crush Natalee’s truth,
      but they cannot CRUSH HER SPIRIT!

      If ever a man of wisdom and skill, honor and courage, charism and sound reason were needed in advocating for this innocent child, and all that she and her family have suffered, indeed JQK fits the role and the calling.

      Beth must be so very proud of the overwhelming response in support of her precious daughter, that was generated by Natalee – who called us all together,
      and who challenged each of us to find the courage to speak up for a child’s right to justice and a child’s right to their truth!

      Dave must be so proud to witness so many people called together by his daughter’s journey for justice!

      Though she only lived 18 short years, what a remarkable young lady Natalee has revealed herself to be!

      And though she only graced this earth with her presence for 18 short years, she has summoned together people from all over the United States, who stand by her side and claim her right to be set free, her right to come home, her right to be buried in her homeland, her right to justice and her truth being told!

      She became a pounding river, a driving relentless force who insisted on integrity as the measure of meaning in a person’s spoken words, and would settle for nothing less than the purity of truth in their deeds.

      She yields to nothing, save the Grace that lifts her spirit up, a Grace that resonates with the beauty of her soul.

      This child will rise again and again!
      And no one in Aruba can stop her!
      Let her voice ring out with her cries for freedom: to be set free, to be re-united with her family – her remains returned to her loved ones, to be remembered with dignity, to be granted a place of honor in her country – her home, where she may forever rest in peace.

      God bless JQK and his team.
      God bless Beth, Dave and their families.
      God bless Natalee and all those she loved who miss her and continue to stand by her side.

      One young child, became a relentless cry for justice!
      One young child, refused to be crushed and silenced!

      Rise up, Natalee and claim your truth!
      And together, we will stand with you by your side.

      Justice for Natalee Holloway!
      Justice for Natalee Holloway!
      Justice for Natalee Holloway!

    43. ayfit on January 18th, 2007 11:51 am

      #37 Justice
      Do I sense a little doubt in JK?

    44. Molly on January 18th, 2007 12:14 pm

      from Booking Buddy/Travelocity

      Renaissance Aruba Resort and Casino
      Flight + 4 Nights Hotel From $982

      Aruba Marriott Resort and Stellaris Casino
      Flight + 4 Nights Hotel From $1,263

      Hyatt Regency Aruba Resort and Casino
      Flight + 4 Nights Hotel From $1,324

      Atlantis Submarine Expedition – From $39
      More Aruba Activities

      molly (in Houston)

    45. Big Lou on January 18th, 2007 12:14 pm

      Sounds like we are just crying wolf again. How can JQK be satisfied with the investigation? I wonder if BETH is satisfied?

    46. dennisintn on January 18th, 2007 12:16 pm

      karin will sign a book deal next month. titles presently considered are: “rape and murder on the vile isle”, “life as a prosecutor on an island where money and appearances count more than the lives of innocents”, “sandbagged by my superiors and the a.l.e.”, “the lie as a defense”, “date rapist, murderers i have known”. i’m sure the rest of you monkeys can pick more eyecatching titles for her to use.

    47. Molly on January 18th, 2007 12:18 pm

      I sent Booking Buddy an email:

      “People!!! Haven’t you heard of Natalee Holloway? I wouldn’t go to Aruba if you sent me for free!”

      The main office addy of Booking Buddy is in Boston, Mass.

      molly (in Houston)

    48. vicki on January 18th, 2007 12:19 pm

      First of all, JQK is a VERY confident person. If he has to kiss a little butt than he doesnt mind . Take Notes TACO JOE. JQK has class. he will get the job done.
      This is in response to RAMM on the last page… he states that he LIES. He also states that EVERYONE LIES..than he states he is an athiest[sp]!!!Well I have been thinking …ever since I was a little girl, my mom would tell me to always TELL THE TRUTH. She told me that without your WORD you were nothing. I dont belive that EVERYONE lies. I believe the exact opposite of that. I think GOOD HONEST PPL tell the truth. Why not? I havent LIED since I was 5 and took a piece of bubble gum for the 5&dime and my MOTHER took me back in the store and told the manager to call the cops on me for stealing. She didnt raise a thief or a LIAR. So in conclusion, maybe everyone that is living[or dying] on LIERUBA are LIARS. Maybe thats all they know????

    49. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 12:39 pm

      Hey Vicki,

      It seems that lying is the national pasttime in Aruba.
      Yes I believe there are still ppl who don’t lie, the problem is they aren’t very popular …ppl can’t stand to hear the truth.

      Hey Aruba….how’s tourism today? Got Bread? Well maybe JR. could tell you later…and you can borrow Deepaks cleaning fluid to clean things up or put em away. I thought someone could take pictures, but crud, Anita’s camera is gone. If you need a ride don’t hitch it with Anita’s son, cuz she wanted to know what kinda girl would get in the car with her model son. Model of what?

      I was gonna put lipstick on the pig, but they caught Guido with the makeup. We were gonna ship Depends to Aruba, but the guy who peed the bed moved. I was hoping Arlene could pen a book, Aruba for dummies, since we just don’t understand,,I was gonna include something in the body of this post for Pauless, but we know no body no case.
      I was just posting as a favor to a friend, ya know Steve.
      I do see some possible commodities that Aruba has, vanishing cream and pork.

      Aruba, the hammer will continue to fall to crack this case. Justice is patient.

    50. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 12:46 pm

      Deepak, what cleaning fluid does not remove chocolate?
      That’s what they found in your car chocolate….and cleaning fluid.

    51. dave on January 18th, 2007 12:56 pm


      Yep Ramm is a athiest.

      Ya gotta feel sorry for thr poor soul.
      No need to say more the point is made.

    52. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 1:04 pm

      #43 Ayfit

      Absolutely no doubt in JQK. Don’t mess with him. LOL

      I was just stating that he is most likely being professionally polite and not dissing Karin, etc. on the air.

      Complete confidence in JQK.

    53. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 1:04 pm

      Yep busy beaches at Aruba

      Look here St. Maarten

      Look Here St. John

      Look here Caymans.
      I see ppl/but not in Aruba

    54. Kelly on January 18th, 2007 1:17 pm

      For the sake of the boycott, I think it’s a good idea that Greta keeps the story prevelant. Who really cares if they headline it as “new developments”?? If it keeps tourists’ dollars away from the greedy, corrupt government in Aruba, I’m all for the “new developments”.
      I really, really hope Beth sues the Kaploes for mental distress after they sue Dr. Phil. She has an excellent case being that her marriage fell apart after all the distress. I wonder how the younger boy has being handling all the turmoil? She will put the proceeds to good use saving and educating other teens.

    55. Big Lou on January 18th, 2007 1:21 pm

      Vicki: So what you are telling me is that JQK is kissing butt and NOT lying. Why would he want to do that?

    56. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 1:35 pm

      He’s baaaaack

      Hi Kelminal

    57. vicki on January 18th, 2007 1:43 pm

      first of all #55 i thought you were banned……KELMEL..couldnt stay away??Did you ever [probably not]hear of the expression”you get more with honey than lemons”…why would he ruffle feathers when he wants answers? plain old lying that has been going on[and is obviously the way the ppl over on the DARK SIDE think and live]for how long? ITS YOUR FREAKIN WAY OF LIFE. DUH…. how crass….No wonder you all have no SOULS or MORALS#49 miss u-you really put that one together nicely. Said it all in a nutshell. good one

    58. Big Lou on January 18th, 2007 2:08 pm

      vicki: No need to get upset. I just could NOT be nice to KJ. She has done nothing. JQK has been nice and has kissed butt for over a year now and what has it got him? Sorry I just couldn’t do it but that is just me. And why would I be banned? Have a nice day!

    59. Big Lou on January 18th, 2007 2:11 pm

      Another thing. How many answers has he got by being nice?

    60. Roy on January 18th, 2007 2:55 pm

      #31….Let me quote you here… “Our FBI were the only ones with any moral sense of decency to tell the family the truth about what they had come to believe”
      I do hope you are right about JQK…we’ll see!
      1906….To this day, I have always admired your skills as a writer and ability to get across a message…. I’m sure you got alot of details right but Natalee ain’t make no call…..someone did, but not Natalee.

    61. Janet on January 18th, 2007 2:57 pm

      I believe the following quote of John Q. Kelly to Greta last night tells us exactly was he was being so “nice”.

      John Q. Kelly,2933,244201,00.html
      January 27, 2007

      KELLY: ….. The only possible prosecution and resolution to this down in Aruba and, you know, anything that helps advance the cause here I’m going to do and at least I have a line of communication down there and I don’t want to rock that boat.

    62. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 2:59 pm


      didn’t she make a call on a fellow MB’s students phone,
      about who are all these ppl?

    63. vicki on January 18th, 2007 3:10 pm

      UGH…why did I bother to respond????what a lame duck. by the way BIG LOU hows your dog?

    64. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 3:12 pm

      Noordeinde Palace
      Her Majesty Queen Beatrix
      Postbus 30412
      2500 GK Den Haag
      The Netherlands

      cc: Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende

      Your Majesty,

      I wish you well and know that you are an honorable queen who believes in justice.
      I am an American citizen who treasures justice, so I bring several matters to your attention.

      Currently there are ten Dutch investigators working on the Natalee Holloway case. The American public expects the team to solve the case and put the perpetrators in jail.

      Time is of the essence. It has been almost twenty months since Natalee died; the
      critical two-year point is approaching. That is why the Dutch investigators and prosecutor must act promptly and bring charges against Joran van der Sloot and his accomplices.

      Forward movement in Natalee’s case is essential.

      The Netherlands must take the high road, the moral road, and promptly deliver justice.
      The reputation of the Netherlands is at stake. Citizens world-wide are observing.

      Natalee holds a special place in the hearts of Americans, and we will remember her for a long time. She reminds us of our daughters, sisters, and nieces. And we will fight for Natalee until her killers are in jail.

      If you had known Natalee, I’m sure you would have loved her. She was an intelligent and kind young woman who planned to become a pediatrician and help others. However, she never got that chance because Joran and his accomplices ended her very promising life.

      The world is a lesser place without Natalee. Because of Joran’s actions, there will be one less doctor in the world. But the biggest loss is for Beth, Natalee’s mother. She gave birth to Natalee, held her, loved her, and watched her grow into a beautiful young woman. When you think of Natalee, think of your own beloved granddaughters and how precious they are. As a parent, you can understand Beth’s love for Natalee and her anguish at losing her.

      After twenty months, Joran van der Sloot remains the prime suspect. Even his attorney admits his guilt. Yet, Joran roams free, smirking for the cameras, making a mockery of justice and the Dutch kingdom itself. Joran’s freedom is a disgrace to the Netherlands.

      Since you are a queen who prides herself in rectifying that which is wrong, please consider these important points regarding the case:

      Suspect Deepak Kalpoe, in a recorded conversation, said to suspect Joran VDS, “You will get fifteen years if they find the girl.”

      Joran van der Sloot’s attorney, Antonio Carlo, confessed to prosecutor Karin Janssen that Joran played a major role in Natalee’s disappearance.

      Judge Bob Wit obstructed a full search of the VDS residence, even though police and prosecutor Janssen presented a valid search warrant for the entire VDS compound, including the grounds.

      Former chief of police Gerold Dompig admits there is enough evidence to put Joran and the Kalpoes in jail for eight years.

      Freddy Arambatzis stated that Joran told him, “they all panicked when Natalee remained passed out.”

      Judges who continually ruled in favor of Paulus VDS were his friends. This represents a severe conflict of interest, and these judgments need to be reversed.

      This week, Minister of Justice Rudy Croes admitted that the voluntary travel boycott of Aruba has caused enormous damage. Each day the boycott grows stronger as more Americans suspect corruption and cover-up. In addition, Aruba’s tourism stands to plummet more after a soon-expected US public announcement labels Aruba as unsafe.

      Your majesty, please use your power and influence for good and see that charges are brought promptly against all guilty parties. Justice for Natalee is the respectable action to take, and its achievement will bring honor to the Netherlands.

      Please show the world that you care about the rights of young women. Please show the world that you are a true believer in one of the most revered principles of all times: JUSTICE.


    65. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 3:14 pm

      P.S. Richard,

      I didn’t forget about Joel Gove. I will address his disappearance in a separate writing.

      My Natalee letter was already very long!

    66. Patti on January 18th, 2007 3:21 pm

      The one thing that I don’t like about her was that she had
      gotten into a tiff with Beth and told her that if she
      didn’t be quiet and cooperate (?) that she would not share
      anymore information with her.

      What the ?!?!?!?!?

      And… she made good her threat!

      Nice lady, huh? Representing the “People” of Aruba?
      What a joke!


      Did you ever give a rat’s ass about justice? Did you care, at all, about the “People” of Aruba? Are you an advocate for the victims of crime or are you just one more prong on the ladder that’s in the pigsty?

      Hint: The People of Aruba are not happy.

      Boycott Aruba

    67. Miss-Underestimated on January 18th, 2007 3:23 pm

      Where has Grande, Hammer and Brenda T been?
      I was glad to see Pearl, Frank, and 1906, but I’m kinda wondering about the others.

    68. Patti on January 18th, 2007 3:34 pm

      Lady Justice:

      I was typing my comment about Karin, while you were posting your letter.

      You definately got class! That is the best letter that I have ever read… especially when you consider how much emotion surrounds this case. I think you did a fine job.

      Justice for Natalee

    69. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 3:37 pm

      Does anyone know the mailing address of the Dutch PM?

      Please post. TIA

    70. Observer on January 18th, 2007 3:55 pm

      Good Bye KJ!! She didnt do a damn thing for natalee or the family!! She knows what happened!!

      Makes me Ill that JQK has to kiss all there asses to keep communication going. Thats all the family has. I see he met with dennis jacobs as well..Amazing that fat pig isnt locked up by now!! Yes I know if he goes down so does the scum that ordered him to destroy evidence. We all know that just isnt going to happen.

    71. Janet on January 18th, 2007 4:07 pm

      64. Justice for Natalee

      Your ability to RESPECTFULLY articulate the truth emcompassing this corrupt Aruban investigation …. that is denying Natalee Holloway justice as well as closure for her family …. is truly commendable.

      Thank you.


      PS: Can somebody please tell me what number does Lady Justice’s submission/letter appears? I must be missing it as I scroll up and down the page.


    72. Patti on January 18th, 2007 4:31 pm


      Justice for Natalee is my Lady Justice -
      she is always a lady.


    73. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 4:38 pm

      Thanks, Patti.

      Richard is tough act to follow!

      His letter was very eloquent.

    74. Janet on January 18th, 2007 4:42 pm

      73. JusticeforNatalee

      I agree. Richard’s letter was awesome.

      What incredible letter writing abilities are evident on this forum. The truth regarding this corrupt Aruba investigation that is denying an American citizen justice must be exposed!


    75. Patti on January 18th, 2007 5:28 pm

      Lady Justice:

      I thought I had written it down, but all I have is the address for Queen Bea. I e-mailed Richard. If we don’t hear from him sometime tonight, I’ll look through the threads and post it to this page, okay?

    76. ayfit on January 18th, 2007 5:36 pm

      Justice,Pipe down,sorry just trying to get a rise out of you.Hadn’t heard directly from you lately.I truely do nominate you for the presidency of the JQK fan club.You are a lock.Again,I hope you are right.I hope someone gets something done.If that someone is JQK that’s just fine.There is only so much an American is going to be able to do.That’s being optomistic.

    77. Dayhiker on January 18th, 2007 5:37 pm

      Whether Karin Janssen is corrupt or not, the failure to bring justice in Natalee’s case lies at her feet. She could have demanded the suspects be arrested upon learning they had lied. She had the grounds to do so. She would have had to sign off on the arrest of the two security guards, which she knew were not even on the security tapes when she arrested them. In doing so she gave the main suspects an additional five days to cover their act.

      Jannsen is responsible for the decisions that allowed the suspects to roam free for ten days to clean up any evidence of their crime against Natalee. Whether she was acting on the bad advice of a corrupt Jan Van der Straten covering for his friend Paulus is no excuse, she had the power to demand certain very obvious actions be taken in the investigation and failed to do her job, and that is why this case is unsolved to this day.

    78. Roy on January 18th, 2007 6:03 pm

      #62 Iffn I was to believe that Natalee was somewhere where she didn’t know anyone, I’d say it was possible. Convenient story for anyone wishing to get across that point….Not to mention, iffn evidence was presented of a phone call being made, the counter-claim thus becomes, Natalee made the call………so ask yourself, who’s being protected? ….
      The phone call…. MB phone? cell phone? who are these ppl?
      call to friends, family,….I don’t know…wasn’t there… but iffn I had to make a guess, no she didn’t say those words….I believe someone else made a call, what he said, I haven’t a friggin clue.

    79. SL-Gloria on January 18th, 2007 6:21 pm


      If anything, the real rat that jumped the ship is the Attorney General, Theresa Croes Fernandez Pedra. She is the one that has always remained in hiding and has failed to behave like the chief law enforcement officer in Aruba.

      Mrs. Croes-Fernandes Pedra is the Aruban Master of Evasion. Ms. Janssen, even if rejected by many and accused of participating with other Dutch nationals in a secret and sinister plan to prevent justice, to protect the Van der Sloots, is the representative of the Justice Department that has dedicated the most effort with the intent to put the main suspects behind bars.

      Janssen has failed and she has been unyielding to Mrs. Holloway-Twitty’s demands for consistent flow of information about the case. But from what several people close to the parents, she does believe that the main suspects are responsible for whatever took place. I don’t think she had the adequate investigative support.

      Janssen was the chief prosecutor. Ruddy Croes is the governmental minister responsible for policing and the maintenance of public order. Theresa Croes-Gonzales Pedra is the Attorney General and as such, she heads the Justice Department and has executive responsibilities for law enforcement and public prosecution. But, during the last 18 months, I have failed to see this lady getting directly involved in the case or contributing in any form or way to finding a solution to the stagnation of prosecutorial developments.

      So who is the rat that jumped the boat? The one that did her job against all odds or the one that pretends not to have a public responsibility for enforcing the law, hiding in obscurity and acting as if she holds an honorary position? Theresa is the rat, not Janssen.

    80. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 6:24 pm

      Agree with you on Janssen.
      She blew it.

      Her biggest mistake was the 10-day “surveillance” of J2K.

    81. Allan K on January 18th, 2007 6:26 pm

      The Dutch investigators have been on, reading the case for a month. Have they not reached a conclusion in a month working reading the case? Surely, they probably knew details already.

      Children could have reached a conclusion in this time. Sounds like they are being silent until doomsday, in other words not any action has been taken or it seems that none will be taken.

      That is do the Dutch want to prosecute a Dutch boy for what they might think is an wild American teenager! Thus we know this not to be the case. Surely they know Joran is a psychopath. He started killing with dogs. Who would want him loose anywhere? Now listen Dutch get your @ss in gear and do something.

      Aruba has no backbone, or has learned to be submissive to the Dutch people. One happy island is what the Arubans call it. Will that still be the philosophy when there is no bread on the table?

    82. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 6:26 pm

      #76 Ayfit,

      I think it will be a combination of efforts that gets the job done.

    83. Carpe Noctem on January 18th, 2007 6:32 pm


      How do you feel about Karin Jaansen’s letter asking
      if Beth Twitty was related to Hitler? -J4N

    84. Maggie on January 18th, 2007 6:51 pm

      I remember that post by VietVet about the bat. He didn’t state it as actual fact. He said he was told that by someone when he and others were in Aruba looking for Natalee and that someone also told them I believe(I may be wrong in remembering), that Joran didn’t go to school on that Monday.

      I also found it odd in Paulus’s statements he can’t recall if Joran went to school on Monday, but he can tell you in exact detail everything that Joran said about the night he was with Natalee and has no memory problem.

    85. SL-Gloria on January 18th, 2007 6:57 pm

      #83, Carpe:

      I think that was a very unintelligent way to get an answer. If I had been Janssen, and I thought for a second that Beth could have been related to Hitler, I would have found a more subtle, less offensive way to confirm or not the veracity of Joran’s comment.

    86. ayfit on January 18th, 2007 7:01 pm

      #82 Justice—Agreed.

    87. mayan_moons on January 18th, 2007 7:21 pm

      I think they just recycle themselves from island to island like ole Jan does, and if things get to hot they then hightail it back to Holland.

    88. mayan_moons on January 18th, 2007 7:28 pm

      Thanks for the heads up on Booking Buddy Molly (in houston) i’m shooting off an email too!

    89. Richard on January 18th, 2007 7:32 pm

      JusticeforNatalee … didn’t we share emails this morning, and I sent you the mailing address of Balkenende? And, for good measure, Nelson Oduber? Maybe you’re not who I think you are! Please clarify….

      P.S. I don’t for one second believe that they did the ten-day surveillance of the Three Stooges that they later claim.

      It wasn’t until the American TV talk shows began ranting that they did ANYTHING about them. Had the case not gotten publicity, they would have pinned it on the security guards and that would have been that. I don’t think they were watching the Pimps at all.

    90. mayan_moons on January 18th, 2007 7:48 pm

      Hey Carpe!

      You’re little sassy girl chi chi is sooo adorable and the baby is precious. I’ve got a little longhair Athena chi chi, my very first longhair chihuahua & she looks so exotic, she’s got a brown circle arround one eye like Peety in the little rascals.

    91. mayan_moons on January 18th, 2007 7:52 pm

      It wasn’t much but Karin gave us more info than i thought she ever would but they shut her up quickly. Unlucky for Aruba that you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

    92. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 8:12 pm

      #89 Richard,

      You must have sent the info to someone else.

      I am not really registered; have been posting front page for a long time.

      So-I can’t exchange messages.

      P.S. I don’t believe the “surveillance” nonsense either. That’s why I put it in quotes.

    93. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 8:14 pm

      Richard, maybe you sent the addresses to Patti.

      Anyway, if you or Patti could post at least the PM’s address, I’d be grateful.

    94. ayfit on January 18th, 2007 8:24 pm

      #89 Richard;
      I believe it was Beth who got the sec. guards off.

    95. dennisintn on January 18th, 2007 9:10 pm

      #89, dompig said they did start tracking calls 3 days after natalee disappeared and they may have started surveillance then, but the meeting deepak told about his family and the vds’ was scheduled after l0:30 at night because they knew surveillance would be out that late. paulus knew beforehand about anything that was done in the way of surveillance or phone tapping.

    96. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 9:38 pm


      Your excellent letter is posted on several blogs, including boycott blogspot.

      Did you see Janet’s comment?

      She thinks you should “consider your letter an open letter and distribute it to comment sections of major publications throughout the United States.”

      Great idea, Janet!

    97. JusticeforNatalee on January 18th, 2007 9:41 pm

      P.S. Richard,

      If you agree to Janet’s idea, I would be happy to send you money for stamps, etc.

    98. Patti on January 18th, 2007 11:02 pm

      Lady Justice:

      Don’t be rediculous. Richard wouldn’t need any money for stamps. But I’m sure he’ll love the compliment.

      He said he’d get the address for you.

      Good Night….

    99. Janet on January 18th, 2007 11:15 pm

      95. Dennisintn
      Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldrige observed Deepak Kalpoe’s vehicle inside the fence of the Van der Sloot property at 2:30 AM on the morning of May 31, 2005. These men told Natalee’s family that they climbed the fence and recording the licence number. Joran claims that he was at the Radisson gambling …. while Deepak waited. I contend that a collaboration was taking place at the Van der Sloots …. a collaboration to fabricate the Holiday Inn story.
      October 28, 2006
      24. Was Deepak’s car seen inside the VDS compound?
      Beth: Yes, Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge told me they had to climb the wall in order to write down the license number.
      25. Where were Joran and Deepak when Paulus called on the cell phone?
      Beth: I really do not know.
      26. Were the Sloots tipped-off that the family group had landed in Aruba?
      Beth: Not at first.
      Art Wood: The Sloots were probably tipped-off when the family group stopped at the Noord Police Station to wait for Charles Croes, Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge to return from the VDS residence.
      On the Record w/ Greta
      Former Aruba Suspect Alleges Plot!
      Wednesday, June 29, 2005

      Mickey John

      JOHN:…….He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy’s father, they sit and made up the story.

    100. Waterboy on January 18th, 2007 11:38 pm

      Some have asked, so I’m going to try all the possibilities, and not be too vague. I’ve had months to think about the possibilities of what might have happen to Natalee. Part of it will correlate with 1906, and part of it will not. Some parts we agree on and some we do not. I’ll include all the players and their probable or rather possible roles.

      First to Richard, you may have something that Natalee was taken captive and transported off the island alive; but I don’t think this happen, unless the Gardner was involved in it. I really don’t want to think about what happen to Natalee if this is true. This fate would be worse than death. If this is a possibility, the Gardner was the pick-up man, and he took Natalee alive to an isolated pick-up point, where she was transported out of the country, to either Venezuela, the middle east, a Soviet block country, or Denmark, by boat or airplane.

      I believe that Natalee was set up, followed, and baited for days. Others were too. In particular Madison Whatley and Ruth McVay. They just didn’t get in the car. I think that Ruth McVay did not go to C&Cs that night. I’m sure that other American girls were hit on that night in May of 05. Paulus wanted Natalee, and Joran wanted Ruth McVay. You can see this in the casino video. Geoffrey von Comvoirt wanted Natalee. They were not interested in Lee Broughton. Why? Honestly, I don’t know. She is very pretty.

      This is 1906′s idea, but he believes that video equipment was set up in Natalee’s room to observe the girls in secret and choose the one that was most desirable. Who was involved in the videotaping? Geoffrey von Cromvoirt.. The videos were viewed by Joran, Depak, Freddie, Steve Gregory Croes, Dompig’s son, and Andreas (sp?).

      To be continued.

    101. Molly on January 19th, 2007 1:25 am

      Mayan, How stupid, no? They are liable for advertising Aruba. Booking Buddies should know better, as well as Travelocity. I am just waiting for something else to happen on Aruba and those travel companies will get sued. Then we’ll hear about boycotting Aruba.

      molly (in Houston)

    102. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 1:32 am

      Let me ask the members who post here a question. What exactly (and please not just “order the Arubans to take action” because we cannot order what we do not have any control over) you would like the Dutch government to do about Aruba and the Natalee Holloway case.

    103. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 1:34 am

      and please, this is an honest and serious question and I will try to give equally serious answers to it.

    104. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 1:53 am

      Molly in my opinion they are very much opening themselves up for a lawsuit if they book someone to go there and that person is killed. People & company’s everyday of the week are defendants when something *bad happens” much less a death. I don’t think any jury would look to kindly on travel agents independent or working for an agency & will level them financially.

    105. Frank on January 19th, 2007 1:57 am

      They should do to the van der sloots exactly what they did to Natalee.

      No have Joran play the role of Natalee and Paulus the role of Joran.

      Then take Paulus for a boat ride.

    106. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 2:04 am

      nr. 105

      that of course is something the dutch government is not able to do.

    107. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 6:26 am

      102. I would respectfully ask the Q to stop sending more
      funding to the corrupt Government in that stink hole
      they call Aruba.

      I would try my best to explain to her why I think
      the Govt. of Aruba would flash a fake smile and
      take the money, but truhfully this same Govt.
      could give an sh less if her very own grandkids
      were hunted down, preyed upon by Sloot-ists,
      assassinated and then disposed of like a bag of
      household rubbish.

      These serial a$$-trumpets are only
      Dutch when the money jar
      is being passed around!

      When the money ain’t going their
      way, I noticed they treat
      the Dutch like sh too!

      I hope the sloots get a nice
      brutal beat down at the end
      of all this. The kind that
      momma used to make!

      …but please, do not kill them…

      for there is NO GREATER punishment
      than to make J-Bo & Paul-ass walk the Earth
      wearing their horror masks for the rest
      of their lives.

      The same HORROR MASKS that we
      have all come to know
      them by from worldwide
      television & web coverage.

      ..AND THE BEAT GOES ON. – The Whispers

      Here’s to looking up your old address!

      Top o the mornin’ to ya. -J4N

    108. Richard on January 19th, 2007 6:38 am

      Rammstein, see my letter to the Queen. In August, I believe it was, Aruba handed the case over to the Dutch. They admitted their inability to solve this case of bewildering difficulty, in a move that betrayed their incompetence (if no worse, and most of us believe that there are worse things involved, whatever they may be)from day one.

      What do I want the Netherlands to do? Get those Dutch guys acting, not just sitting there.

      Get that squad of Dutch detectives that interviewed Joran the first time last summer, and who said they are convinced that he knows what happened, back working on the little (well, not so little) PSYCHOPATH.

      Bring in the rest of the Pimps for interrogation.

      Search the entire van der Sloot estate, AS THE ORIGINAL WARRANT ALLOWED.

      How’s that for a start?

      Oh, yes … I believe it was in Curacao in the 1980s or 1990s (don’t recall exactly) when the Dutch decided that the whole island’s government was so corrupt that they replaced it. Simply recalled the people running things and put in new people.

      This was because their revenues were being stolen. That’s their problem; I want to know about the American life (lives?) stolen, if not sold into sexual slavery.

      So how about replacing some key people on the Aruban government? And putting the heat on the suspects?

      That should do for a start.

      Here are the addresses people have asked for:

      Her Majesty Queen Beatrix
      Noordeinde Palace
      Postbus 30412
      2500 GK Den Haag
      The Netherlands

      (salutation, two lines:)

      Her Majesty the Queen:
      Your Majesty;

      (I got that from the official site)

      (closing line:)


      The Hon. Jan Peter Balkenende
      Prime Minister and Minister of General Affairs
      Ministry of General Affairs
      Binnenhof 20
      P.O. Box 20001
      2500 FA The Hague
      The Netherlands

      (don’t know why the one to Queen Bea was “Den Haag” and this one was “The Hague”; I guess either will work)

      (salutation Sir: closing Respectfully,)

      and last and least:

      The Hon. Nelson Oduber
      Prime Minister of Aruba
      Office of the Prime Minister
      L.G. Smith Boulevard 76
      Oranjestad, Aruba

      (salutation Sir: closing Respectfully,)

    109. Richard on January 19th, 2007 6:50 am

      Waterboy, just to clarify. My idea was not that Natalee was destined from sex slavery from the start, but I do think that Joran and the other Pimps, or at least some of the other Pimps, had decided to abduct and ‘share’ a tourist girl. It wouldn’t be a voluntary thing for her; gang rape is not something that appeals to many.

      The only reason the Kalpoes went along, in my opinion, was as a kind of initiatory rite. Want to be part of the gang? Here’s what you have to do. I can’t fathom why, otherwise, Joran would bring with him these two kids who he hardly knew, who didn’t fit in with his ‘crowd,’ and so forth.

      Remember, a witness reported seeing a car following Deepak’s car closely, out by the ponds I think it was. That other car was being driven erratically; my suspicion is that some of the Pimps were waiting in the bar that Deepak ran into for only a second AFTER the three took off with Natalee. Why did he do that? In my opinion, to give the signal … We got a girl! Or perhaps: We got THE girl.

      Anyway, if we can accept that the three abused Natalee, and brought her to other Pimps, then what? Well, at some point Natalee is going to come out of the drink/date rape stupor.
      They’re not going to let her go so she can catch her plane.

      So the other Pimps (not the three) may have thought: Hey, we don’t have to let her go right now. We can keep her prisoner.

      (Reality check: Last week there was a case in Tennessee, where a young man and woman, college students, were carjacked. The guy was shot fatally; the girl was held for a few days, gang-raped repeatedly, then shot. Four or five people have been arrested, one a college student himself.
      Beautiful world we live in.)

      At some point, especially if Joran and the others were sufficiently sadistic, they may have decided to take their wannabe-gangster “Pimp” pose as far as they could, and actually sell Natalee or hand her over. Gets rid of a problem; maybe gives them some cash; and above all, it carries their self-image and sadistic natures as far as possible. The ultimate degree of control has been achieved.

      Don’t want to run on, but I’ve been thinking, too, that maybe they held Natalee for a few days on a boat or in a house, TRIED to sell her, found that nobody wanted to take the risk, and then did what they had to do.

      Remember Dompig’s story that Natalee OD’d? BS; she never used drugs, I’m convinced. But if you are FORCIBLY injected with a fatal amount of heroin, something that drug users and dealers could easily do … how is an observer to know that it wasn’t an accidental overdose?

      That, of course, would assume that Dompig or somebody in the police had seen her body. And given the date of his remark, that would be well after the rocks painting.

    110. dave on January 19th, 2007 7:22 am

      Rammstein we want justice for Natalee. Who are you the spokes person for the Dutch now? It’s obviosus what your about give us a break abd take a hike TROLL. You can fool some of the people some of the time…

    111. chris on January 19th, 2007 7:36 am

      Wouldn’t it be loverly if everyone involved, from Oduber on down, could be made to take a polygraph test?
      Eventhough they are not always conclusive, it would show us who has or hasn’t anything to hide.
      Ramm, is there anything written that prevents Holland from doing that?……chris

    112. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 8:00 am


      Let’s make it happen today.

    113. Richard on January 19th, 2007 8:13 am

      Here I go again. Sorry. But please read this article, which absolutely has nothing directly to do with Natalee.

      Look at the psychology displayed by the woman suspect.

      Woman charged in 1979 slaying testifies about her role

      HOLLAND, Mich. — A woman charged in the brutal 1979 slaying of a Hope College student working as a hotel clerk testified Thursday about setting up a gathering where the killing took place.

      Laurie Ann Swank, of Nescopeck, Pa., testified after waiving her preliminary hearing in the death of 23-year-old Janet Chandler of Muskegon. She said she expects to plead to second-degree murder, with a potential 10- to 20-year sentence.

      Swank, who was Chandler’s supervisor at the Blue Mill Inn, was among six people charged with first-degree murder, a charge that carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison with no possibility of parole, if convicted.

      On Thursday in Holland District Court, Arthur Carlton “Carl” Paiva, 54, of Muskegon; James Cleophas “Bubba” Nelson, 59, of Rand, W.Va.; and Anthony Eugene Williams, 55, of Boscobel, Wis. were ordered to stand trial in the case.

      Paiva, Nelson, Williams and Swank all are expected to appear Jan. 29 in Ottawa County Circuit Court.

      Swank, who is in her late 40s, testified that she had feelings for Paiva, and was jealous of Chandler’s relationship with him. She told the court that she sought retribution by telling Paiva that Chandler was not monogamous.

      Paiva vowed to “take care of” Chandler, Swank said.

      “They were going to pass her around,” Swank said. “They were going to be ‘putting here in her place,’ so to speak, because she thought a lot of herself. Bring her down a few notches. Teach her a lesson.”


      Freddie Bass Parker, 49, of Powellton, W.Va., is fighting extradition to Michigan, saying he was not in that state when Chandler was killed. A hearing for Parker in West Virginia is set for Feb. 7.

      Robert Lynch, 67, of the Berrien County village of Three Oaks, pleaded guilty in December to second-degree murder. He faces a prison term of 25 years to life at a sentencing hearing scheduled for Monday.

      The men were working as security guards at the time and were in Holland because they were on assignment at a local labor strike, authorities say. Lynch, Nelson, Parker and Williams were temporarily residing at the Blue Mill Inn.

      Authorities said Chandler was working her nighttime job as a clerk on Jan. 31, 1979, when she was kidnapped and taken to a house in Ottawa County’s Holland Township where she was beaten, raped and strangled.

      A snowplow driver discovered her body a day later about 35 miles south of Holland in a wooded turnaround on Interstate 196.

      Interest in the case was revived after a Hope class produced an 80-minute documentary film about it that aired in January 2004 on a Grand Rapids public television station.

      (end of article; emphasis in capitals supplied by me)

      Get the point? A woman’s jealousy led to lies and a subsequent sexual assault and murder.

      I’m just wondering IF Natalee were taken to a rave party, or a gathering of the other Pimps, or anything like that, and IF some girl who ‘fancied’ Joran or someone else was present, and felt slighted (don’t forget how being on drugs can influence one’s feelings and propensity to violence … not that I know myself!), and IF some other things had happened ….

      This is really and truly total speculation. All that I’m saying is, I wish Aruba or the Dutch would have some plainclothes detectives shadowing the girlfriends of some of these scumbags. If nothing else, they might have heard something.

      As I said before, we can’t discount the possibility that girls MAY have played a role in whatever happened. Did here.

      Of course, it’s also possible that this idea is pure crap.

    114. vicki on January 19th, 2007 8:26 am

      #102RAMM- we want an honest investigation… they are there and have found “NOTHING” we are here thousands of miles away and have solved the freakin puzzle. Do you not think it BIZZARE that both Urine and his sweaty papa say”someday I will tell all I know….get real…GIVE US JUSTICE. LET NATALEES VOICE BE HEARD.She did NOT deserve whatever happened to her…DOES ANYONE HAVE A HEART???

    115. SUPER DAVE on January 19th, 2007 8:51 am

      Ramm: it’s so simple. provide reasons why this investigation did not get started until ten days after Natalee went missing. uphold their own laws concerning lying as witnesses or suspects. allowing the main suspect’s father to derail the investigation by giving instructions. provide all the evidence that has been found. explain the material in the searchers hand that looks exactly like Natalee’s shirt that was said to be a fishnet ? explain why a mother could not get any information on her missing daughter from this island and it’s government. explain the truck delivering furniture at the sloot compound shortly afer the crime. the conversation between jr. sloot and the kalpoe boys in the police vehicle. come up with the answers to all the reasons why this family has had to suffer for a year and a half because of the complete lack of compassion of a whole island and Holland. give a greiving mother and father the real answers ( the truth) and put out a real effort to solve this crime. it’s as simple as that !

    116. Richard on January 19th, 2007 9:17 am

      Something that I never thought of before ….

      Who best would understand the misery, the CONTINUING horror on a girl of being sold into sexual slavery? Another girl, for obvious reasons.

      No evidence about this at all. But read the story in my post 113 … if some psychopathic, drugged-out girl were at a rave party, Pimps group assault session, etc., then it could have been HER idea.

    117. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 10:22 am

      98 Patti

      If there were a lot of mailings, the expenses could add up.

    118. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 10:35 am

      102 Rammstein:

      You post, in theory, what the Dutch government can and cannot do.

      I, for one, don’t believe it. I am not saying you are lying. I am just saying that the Dutch government has power and influence over Aruba. And someone in power (The PM or Queen herself) could order action along the lines of:

      “Enough is Enough. I am sick of this mess in Aruba. It is an embarrassment to the Netherlands. I want this case to be solved immediately, I want a thorough investigation, and I want all guilty parties thrown in jail. PRONTO.”

      Aruba has proven it can’t successfully or honestly govern itself. The Dutch have every right to come in.

      In addition, Aruba is losing its income and will become a drain on the Netherlands. An embarrassment and a drain. The Dutch have every right to demand action.

    119. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 10:42 am

      In fact, Rammstein, wasn’t there something in writing that, in order to remain autonomous, Aruba had to meet certain criteria?

    120. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 10:51 am

      Keep posting those Dutch addresses…

      and the cost of the stamp…

      so others can make a note of it & write too!


      Great work all. -J4N

    121. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 11:11 am

      # 110

      Rammstein we want justice for Natalee. Who are you the spokes person for the Dutch now? It’s obviosus what your about give us a break abd take a hike TROLL. You can fool some of the people some of the time…

      Comment by dave | January 19, 2007, 7:22 am


      what is obvious is that you don’t actually know what a troll is, I for example are not one.

      And if you don’t like what I write, respond to it or read around it, your choice.

    122. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 11:15 am


      “Since the disappearance of American student Natalie Holloway in May 2005, there has been aggressive lobbying in the U.S. media to the boycott the Dutch territory.”

      Edison Briessen told journalists at a press conference during the Caribbean Hotel Association’s Caribbean Marketplace here on Monday 1/15/2007.



      NOT TRUE.

      Yet another complete lie by a professional Aruban/Dutch Governmental Liar, Ed Briesen.

      Lies in Aruba seem to be like eating
      a really great tasting potato chip.

      You can’t
      stop at JUST


      Dearest Ed,


      The media over the past year has covered Natalee fairly LIGHTLY
      as media coverage goes! Holloway Supporters have been pissed
      in fact that the coverage has been so piss poor.

      2. The Boycott hasn’t been driven by “THE TV MEDIA” or USA
      Governmental action! It has been driven by moms, dads, uncles
      aunts, sisters, brothers and others who have souls. People all over, who think
      what your TOURIST ASSASSINATING SCUZZ BAG OF AN ISLAND DID to the Holloway/Twitty family over their missing daughter Natalee was SIMPLY GHOULISH & UNCONSCIONABLE.


      Look it up, Ed! –

      you friggin wheeze-bag. -J4N

    123. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 11:17 am

      # 107

      I wish we did not have to send money to Aruba, but under our Charter we are mandated to.

      Just think, without this money (that is earmarked for specific areas of policy meant to aid and protect the people of Aruba, not the possibly corrupt leadership of the island) Aruba would slip away into chaos and possibly violence.

      We Dutch have no love lost for the politicians and the leaders on Aruba, but we are responsible for a part for the well being of the regular Aruban and we cannot ignore that responsibility.

    124. Janet on January 19th, 2007 11:17 am

      Arrest warrants and search warrants were issued by June 5, 2005 in regards to the security guards although Paul Reynolds had released at statement to the media on June 2, 2005 that Holiday Inn security video proved his niece had not return to the hotel via the lobby/entrance as stated by Joran, Deepak and Satish. Logic dictates if the Holiday Inn story was fabricated …. then so was the part of the fabrication that implicated a scurity guard.
      ‘Rita Cosby Live & Direct’ for Dec. 5th
      TWITTY: ….. And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 — at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

      TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew-and we have to keep reminding everyone-after 72 hours — 72 hours-we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn’t, at this point? You know, we-and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.
      ‘The Abrams Report’ for June 17
      RUBEN TRAPENBERG, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: No, he just gave you an explanation of that possibility. That is possible at this point, but if the investigation has led to these three guys, the chance for them being released at this point I think is very, very small. Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That’s why the arrests were made on them.
      FOX NEWS
      Friday, June 10, 2005
      After Holloway and the three men went to the beach, they drove her back to her hotel, where she stumbled and was approached by a man wearing a security guard uniform, another defense attorney, David Kock, told the AP.
      Kock said his client, Satish Kalpoe, and his brother told police they saw a black security guard approach Holloway in the parking lot in front of the hotel lobby before they drove off.
      “That’s why [two former security guards] were detained,” Kock told the AP.
      Wednesday, June 15, 2005 Posted: 2323 GMT (0723 HKT)
      Renfro said police arrested the black guards “because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards, and they couldn’t leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying.”

    125. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 11:23 am

      # 111

      Wouldn’t it be loverly if everyone involved, from Oduber on down, could be made to take a polygraph test?
      Eventhough they are not always conclusive, it would show us who has or hasn’t anything to hide.
      Ramm, is there anything written that prevents Holland from doing that?……chris

      Comment by chris | January 19, 2007, 7:36 am


      Sorry Chris,

      not only is the lie-detector not used in the Netherlands by any branch of the government (that I am aware of), it is impossible to interrogate/question anyone from the Aruban government or any government employee who has not committed a crime inside of the mainland of the Netherlands (not the Kingdom) because only that would grant us authority of that figure.

      For legal purposes, Aruba is a separate country for the Netherlands.

    126. Richard on January 19th, 2007 11:30 am

      From what I once read, Queen Beatrix threatened to resign if certain steps in Dutch foreign policy were not taken.

      It’s on the official Web site … Rammstein, maybe you could check it out for us? I forget how it’s spelled.

      I agree with the above poster who said that if the Queen gathered her top officials, including the prime minister, and said in no uncertain terms that she wanted the case SOLVED … NOW … it would be. And don’t tell me that the Netherlands can’t use the influence it has in Aruba.

      Why, then, did the Dutch send their detectives in the first place?

      I also hope that Her Majesty Queen Beatrix is summoning Karin Janssen for a heated discussion just about now.

      Hey, Joran’s still over there, isn’t he?

    127. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 11:31 am

      Aruba would slip away into chaos and possibly violence.

      We Dutch have no love lost for the politicians and the leaders on Aruba, but we are responsible for a part for the well being of the regular Aruban and we cannot ignore that responsibility.


      Give it a rest. That is the
      I’ve heard in a while!

      Natalee got to some see chaos and violence. Sending
      these a$$holes money to do more of the same only
      continues the cycle. It is called ENABLING.

    128. Richard on January 19th, 2007 11:32 am

      Postage for an airmail envelope to Aruba is 84 cents if it’s regular weight, which I think is three pages or fewer.

      My letter was two pages.

      International aerograms are cheaper, but somewhat informal.

    129. Big Lou on January 19th, 2007 11:38 am

      Chris: Our government can’t make you take a polygraph. I wish at times they could.

    130. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 11:38 am

      # 108 from Richard

      Q. What do I want the Netherlands to do? Get those Dutch guys acting, not just sitting there.
      A. this was answered by JQK, the dutch police is busy but I think it is a big problem working with documents from people who have bungled the case and the investigation.

      Get that squad of Dutch detectives that interviewed Joran the first time last summer, and who said they are convinced that he knows what happened, back working on the little (well, not so little) PSYCHOPATH.
      we need new grounds to re-interrogate Joran. The dutch cannot make the criminal laws of our land go away, we (the dutch and the dutch police) are bound by our laws. If we arrest Joran without proper cause or justification, he will be released immediately by the judiciary. Not that our judiciary would want to, but our laws are very clear on this point.

      Bring in the rest of the Pimps for interrogation.
      same problem as with Joran, without new leads warranting arrest and incarceration (and only the judiciary can decide that) it is not possible to bring them in either.

      Search the entire van der Sloot estate, AS THE ORIGINAL WARRANT ALLOWED.
      I have said this before (somewhere, don’t remember where) but Dutch search warrants aren’t like US search warrants. In the US you go to a judge and request a warrant, it is stamped for approval and the police are given the task to execute the warrant and the police will decide what to search and if there are problems later, a judge will decide if they kept to the warrant.
      Dutch search warrants are not a written order with a stamp on if from a judge. A dutch judge will make his decisions on site as to what can and cannot be searched, he will also decide what can and cannot be taken from the site.
      I would have preferred a much better search of the house, but I doubt Natalee was ever in the house. If she was at the property it would have been at the apartment of Joran.
      The house was searched for items that might be of interest to the investigation, it is not like no-one of the police has ever set foot in that house.
      I believe Natalee was never at the apartment either, Joran or Joran and the Kalpoes would have taken Natalee to a place known to them or their buddies that the police does not know about, to do what they wanted to do without risk of discovery.

    131. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 11:40 am

      I think it’s just a big excuse that the Dutch can’t do anything.

      It’s time for the Dutch to clean house and take action.

      Aruba has not upheld its part of the bargain regarding autonomy.

    132. Janet on January 19th, 2007 11:44 am

      Ramm, I respectfully ask …. when you consider the words of the spokesperson for the government; the spokesperson for the investigation; as well as the attorney for Satish Kalpoe (see #124) ….. how do you come to the following conclusion?
      “In other words, a man in a dark uniform was described, not a dark-skinned man. Why the police then arrested 2 dark skinned guards was probably because of their “detective work” and not because the K2 brothers had fingered black coloured men.”
      (Ramm, a backup link can be provided upon request.)

    133. Big Lou on January 19th, 2007 11:44 am

      Molly: If something happens to you while on vacation you CAN’T sue your travl agent. They couldn’t send you anywhere. Like to New York, Aruba, a cruise, Saba, Mexico, etc…

    134. SL-Gloria on January 19th, 2007 12:03 pm

      #102 Rammstein,

      The main problem associated with the Arubian investigation relates to a lack of implementation of what I think is due policies and procedures established to insure enforcement of the law. Aruba officials behaved like townies. Too much chumminess, possible associated with fear of judgment by peers, neighbors, relatives, the guy up the street …Several players or groups of players, wanting to protect their own isolated interests, complicated the matter in such a way that it created an apparent national conspiracy that also included the donkeys from the sanctuary as participants.

      The police acted with neglect and indifference, when news of the disappearance surged. AHATA began its denial and minimization-of-effect campaign. A new club was born in Aruba, the Protagonist Society: Mansur; Ellis-Schipper; Laclé; Renfro; Dompig; Comemencia; Croes; Croes; the other Croes and many others. Codetalkers and prangsters thrived. Confusion swelled and the collectivity started to form and dispense its own opinions about corruption, cover-ups, pro-HT family sentiment, anti-HT family denouncement and more.

      What happened with the Natalee Holloway investigation was due to lack of institutionalism when it comes to regulation and control and maintenance of law, order, and control, to guarantee general public welfare, both locals and tourists.

      Before any measures are undertaken to reinvestigate the NH case, conditions for a law enforcement environment free of institutional disorder must be created, so that respect for “established authority” can prevail… a “private” police force superseding the official organism is definitely wrong.

      So, assuming Aruba will accept assistance from the Dutch Government, the place to begin is getting the law enforcement structure and implementation of processes related for crime control, detection and prevention, in order. The purpose of this “clean-up” would be to ensure order, safety, institutional integrity, and to guarantee that any efforts dedicated to figuring out precisely what happened to Natalee have an increased probability of a successful outcome.

    135. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 12:03 pm


      102 Rammstein:

      You post, in theory, what the Dutch government can and cannot do.

      I, for one, don’t believe it. I am not saying you are lying. I am just saying that the Dutch government has power and influence over Aruba. And someone in power (The PM or Queen herself) could order action along the lines of:

      “Enough is Enough. I am sick of this mess in Aruba. It is an embarrassment to the Netherlands. I want this case to be solved immediately, I want a thorough investigation, and I want all guilty parties thrown in jail. PRONTO.”

      Aruba has proven it can’t successfully or honestly govern itself. The Dutch have every right to come in.
      Actually no, in our constitution for the Kingdom it says:

      Article 41
      1. The Netherlands, the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba shall conduct their internal affairs autonomously.

      And the dutch government would not be within it’s right under the constitution to interfere in the internal state affairs of Aruba without GRAVE reasons (and this crisis, is nowhere near GRAVE enough to warrant Kingdom interference).

      You cannot give autonomy and then take over when a country has a few issues? The Netherlands would put itself open to legal proceedings if they did that (breaking their own constitution) and it could lead to absolute autonomy of Aruba. This would mean we have no more influence to help anyone anymore.

      I think behind the scenes, the Dutch government will have put enormous pressure on Aruba. This IMHO has lead to them allowing the dutch to come and help with this investigation.

      And for the dutch government to lock them up? Well, that too would be illegal for the government to do. There are several issues with that:

      1. we do not have the authority to just arrest a person
      2. the police cannot decide to incarcerate anyone
      3. deprivation of liberty may be imposed only by the judiciary (according to our constitution)

      To be honest, not even in the Netherlands could our government do this, we do have laws that regulate this.

      In addition, Aruba is losing its income and will become a drain on the Netherlands. An embarrassment and a drain. The Dutch have every right to demand action.

      Comment by JusticeforNatalee | January 19, 2007, 10:35 am
      if we were still bankrolling Aruba I would agree with you and maybe when Aruba is feeling the pressure from the empty pocket that they might be more willing to listen, but until then the Netherlands is statutorily forced to give money to the islands to promote good governance. Sad but true.

    136. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 12:15 pm


      Well Janet, somebody is telling porkies (lies for all you not Jack Frost fans out there). And it is of course the government officials and the people who said:
      “In other words, a man in a dark uniform was described, not a dark-skinned man. Why the police then arrested 2 dark skinned guards was probably because of their “detective work” and not because the K2 brothers had fingered black coloured men.”
      is lying their behinds off.

      This following statement comes from Deepaks own police interrogation on June 9th 2005:

      In the lobby I saw a man walking up to the girl. I saw that he had a radio in his left hand. I assumed that he was talking into the radio because he held it closely in front of his mouth. It was a dark colored man. He was fairly tall. He wore a black T-shirt and black pants.

      I had slowly started pulling up. I saw that there was contact between the girl and the dark colored man. Contact in the sense that it was verbal contact. I did not see the man touch the girl. The man was standing very close to the girl. I thought that she was in good hands and kept on driving.

      if the Kalpoes Lawyers said that the Kalpoes hadn’t fingered a black man but a man dressed in black, then they are lying.
      The Kalpoe brother who made up this story clearly spoke of a “DARK COLORED MAN WEARING A BLACK T-SHIRT AND BLACK PANTS”.
      In other words Deepak did mention a black colored man, but he did not accuse him of anything illegal.

      I don’t know why the police decided to arrest these 2 security guards or what they found at their homes, until we know that part of the police files we cannot make a definite judgment on the reason IMHO.

    137. Richard on January 19th, 2007 12:25 pm

      Rammstein, I have some more ideas, but I’m going to put them on the new, higher-up thread. Otherwise this might get lost.

    138. Patti on January 19th, 2007 12:34 pm


      No offense, but it sounds to me like the Dutch don’t
      have the laws in place to serve justice to any family
      that mourns the loss of their child.

      Are we surprised?

      I read your posts on global warming. You mentioned the
      fact that your country is concerned about sinking and
      drowning? I say, “oh well, one less thing!”

      What’s wrong with the Dutch? Everything!

      Boycott Aruba!!!

    139. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 12:38 pm

      Yeah right, the situation is not serious
      enough… until it happens to one of the
      HER MAJESTY’S grandkids.

      Then the situation will be come OH SO VERY GRAVE!

      …and they honestly wonder why there is a full-on
      Boycott of Aruba and Dutch goods?


    140. Janet on January 19th, 2007 12:47 pm

      134. Rammstein
      Ramm, did you not read the words of the Aruban government spokesperson; the investigation spokesperson; as well as Satish Kalpoes’ attorney. (See 124) The reason why the security guards were detain was because of Joran, Deepak and Satish’s declaration.
      The following quotes confirm that there were no other reason.
      FOX NEW
      Sunday, June 05, 2005
      Janssen declined to provide specific charges, saying the case will go before a judge within 48 hours to determine whether they can be legally held. She said authorities had not found any of Holloway’s belongings at the suspects’ homes.
      Wednesday, June 15, 2005 Posted: 1301 GMT (2101 HKT)
      On Monday, authorities released two security guards arrested in connection with her disappearance.
      Abraham Jones, 28, and Mickey John, 30, who work at a hotel near where the teen was staying, were arrested in the case June 5 but were never charged.

    141. Janet on January 19th, 2007 12:58 pm

      Ramm, these are the words of the security guards’ attorneys …

      FOX NEWS
      Saturday, June 11, 2005

      The two men were arrested Sunday on suspicion of first- and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping, the latter of which is invoked when a kidnapping victim is killed, according to court-appointed defense attorneys Noraina Pietersz and Chris Lejuez.

    142. Patti on January 19th, 2007 1:10 pm

      Yeah! What a joke. The Arubans arrest two innocents on the
      “eye-witness” account of three known liars.

      I wonder… what are the Dutch going to do when they see
      that a major witness in the case, was ignored because of
      his “reputation” of using drugs.


      How many drugs do you consume with your laws of tolerance?

      Is that your biggest excuse for not prosecuting those that

      snatch our children? We can’t believe them, we have too

      many drug addicts?


    143. Big Lou on January 19th, 2007 1:16 pm

      Bottom line is the Dutch are NOT going to do anything.

    144. Janet on January 19th, 2007 1:38 pm

      Big Lou, you and Beth Twitty have the same mindset.
      Dr Phil Show
      December 18, 2006
      “And I want you Dr. Phil, and John Kelly, and the team that you have, that’s who I want to find the answers because the Aruban government is not going to do anything,” Beth says.

    145. Patti on January 19th, 2007 2:35 pm

      Big Lou:

      Any wagers on that?

      I think that if we spent less time on fighting with one another and more time on keeping the pressure on the Dutch, we could get something done.

      If you all want to come here to do nothing but argue the facts, over and over again, and post yesterday’s news, over and over again, how is that getting any thing done for today?

      Everday, Red and Tom, pick the news. We have posters that cover the day’s events… all of which is tailored to our thinking. It is not our job to go around calling eachother names, but rather to post our comments and hope that we attract more that will join in our support of the Boycott against Aruba. How can we possibly grow in numbers, if we harrass every single person that comes, if not for support, but in curiousity of what the boycott is all about.

      What kind of impression are we making for them?

      Granted, no one is perfect, not even I; but I think that it’s time that we change our strategy and stop thinking of ourselves at posters that are in competition with eachother and view ourselves as a team, joined together with the same goal.

      Boycott Aruba

    146. altruist on January 19th, 2007 2:54 pm

      Let me ask the members who post here a question. What exactly (and please not just “order the Arubans to take action” because we cannot order what we do not have any control over) you would like the Dutch government to do about Aruba and the Natalee Holloway case.

      Comment by Rammstein | January 19, 2007, 1:32 am

      and please, this is an honest and serious question and I will try to give equally serious answers to it.

      Comment by Rammstein | January 19, 2007, 1:34 am

      Expose the CORRUPTION, DISCOSE TO THE PUBLIC the TRUTH about the “elected officials” & the improvements needed to guarantee fairness & justice to the JUDICIAL SYSTEM to enable accountability.

      There is NO WAY that I can believe that the Dutch Law Enforcement Officials sent to the Devil’s Rock are not aware: of the corruption, of who is responsible for the disappearing evidence, identify those who participated whether through giving orders or receiving orders.


      Ramm, on previous front page posts you stated that the Dutch have NO AUTHORITY on the Devil’s Rock. That, I can accept as fact from you BUT to stand idly by & not make public their knowledge ENABLES the continuance of criminal acts & future cover ups by elected & appointed officials charged with fiduciary responsibilities,that are not being followed.

      Only with law & order can an economy survive & prosper. Corruption, bribery & cover up’s for the “connected” should be identified through public disclosure. JMHO

    147. Patti on January 19th, 2007 2:56 pm

      Big Lou:

      Take heart! Beth also asked the people of the U.S. to

      boycott the island of Aruba. That is what we are here

      for… to help her.

    148. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 3:45 pm


      I think that if we spent less time on fighting with one another and more time on keeping the pressure on the Dutch, we could get something done.


      First of all the dutch and the US are great allies and important business partners of each other.

      If pressure needs to be exerted, exert it where it is most useful, in Aruba/on Aruba.

      The Dutch have other things on their mind then a missing persons case on an autonomous part of the Kingdom. We have our own issues and they are our first and primary focus.

      And even if we didn’t have our own issues and our own missing persons cases to deal with, there are international issues most dutch would feel far more important then a missing girl (however nice and important she is to her family and friends) on Aruba.

      Another fact of life is that if boycotts are not orchestrated by governments (like the ones against Cuba or Iran) then let’s face it, boycotts of countries rarely succeed.

      All boycotts to my knowledge of the past few years, even extremely popular ones like the France and Germany boycotts have failed.

      Only a travel boycott like the one against Aruba will have a real influence because it lives on tourism.

      Anyway, boycotting the Netherlands would be a no-win situation for US business and the US government, we are far too close an allies for that to happen.

    149. Molly on January 19th, 2007 4:07 pm

      #104 mayan: Didn’t get to answer your post. I hear ya. Companies are sued all the time, so look out travel agencies who promote Aruba. If I owned a business, I wouldn’t touch Aruba with a ten-foot pole. Way too much liability. There should be travel advisories attached to such trips, no matter what the State Dept. has posted.

      molly (in Houston)

    150. Janet on January 19th, 2007 4:20 pm

      What was the purpose of the Dutch investigators who were on the Island of Aruba interrogating Joran, Deepak and Satish at the being of the investigation if the judge was not going to take their findings into consideration? According to Beth she spoke with and ….
      Aired September 13, 2005 – 20:00:00 ET
      TWITTY: You know, Nancy, there was absolutely no — no grounds for them to be released. And I spoke with the Dutch interrogators. And even as of September the 1st, things were really progressing well, and Joran and Deepak and Satish, they had — these young men had divided, and they were not denying a crime anymore. They were merely implicating each other. And the list of inconsistencies was presented before Judge Smit. The reasonable doubt was there. I don`t have any idea why he fled the island and then faxed a reversal decision. It just is incredible.

    151. Janet on January 19th, 2007 4:36 pm

      The family of Natalee Holloway was instructed by the “powers that be” in Aruba to state in writing their dissatisfaction with the Aruban Investigation. Dave, Robin, Beth and Jug complied …. only to be told that Aruba has no power to interfer in the investigation as the prosecutor was appointed by the Hague. This was last fall … Karin Janssen only left her position a couple of days ago.
      Scarborough Country
      November 7, 2005
      Joe: Another strange twist in the Holloway story tonight. Aruba authorities have sent a letter to Alabama Governor Bob Riley that may make a new investigation even harder to move forward with.
      The letter says in part:
      “The chief prosecutor leading the investigation and the General Prosecutor are appointed by the Kingdom Government in the Hague. Because of separation of powers, the government of Aruba has no authority to intervene in the investigation.”
      Dept. of Foreign Affairs, Nov. 4
      Source: Dept of Foreign Affairs, Aruba
      Joe: After all these months you and your family have been suffering, you find out that the Aruba authorities claim they have absolutely no say in this investigation?
      Where do you go from here?
      Dave: Well, that’s really unbelievable that they take the wash their hands approach. We’re going to proceed on with The Hague, I guess. Also, our six page letter we were asked to provide to the Attorney General and we provided a carbon copy to the PM and Condoleezza Rice. We have not heard a response to that letter yet.
      Joe: Dave, I’ve been asking the question for months on people down on the ground down in Aruba who has the power to run this investigation? Who has the power to hire? Who has the power to fire? Who has the power to subpoena? Nobody seems to know. This really does look like a banana republic down there. Anytime anyone gets cornered down there, they just point the finger across the Atlantic.
      Dave: Well, that seems to be the case. We’ve been running around in circles for five months now. When we reduce it down to writing, they put it back in writing and it’s obvious they are pointing the finger somewhere else now.
      Joe: So you are I guess at the end of the line as far as dealing with the Aruba authorities? Now you just have to take up with the Dutch government?
      Dave: That’s what it appears to be. With the Dutch government and with the Attorney General.
      On the Record w/ Greta
      Wednesday, November 09, 2005
      VAN SUSTEREN: All right, the idea of the boycott and Governor Riley how did this come about?
      TWITTY: You know, Greta, I was thinking about that. Aruba really has made us evolve to this position because, you know, what Aruba and The Hague have done to us is they’ve been dishonest from the beginning. If they would just have been forthcoming from the beginning to lead us to the proper authorities we would never be in this position right now.
      VAN SUSTEREN: Can you identify one particular person, if we could sort of chisel away and find out who it is that we need to get to, to get information, so that we can sort of break this log jam who is that person?
      TWITTY: Well, I think that’s the $64 question and now we’ve got Aruba playing the blame game with The Hague. I mean I thought only the suspects were doing the blame game. It looks like Aruba and The Hague now are playing the blame game, Greta. It’s hard to tell.
      VAN SUSTEREN: All right and just so that the viewers, I understand what you’re talking about, you got a letter in which it explained what the Arubans said to you that The Hague has been calling the shots, is that right, in the investigation?
      TWITTY: Yes, they’re saying, in the letter it states that the Aruban government has no authority to intervene in the investigation. Now then why have we been running around on the island submitting written and verbal requests for help from the governor, from the minister of justice, the prime minister? I mean the list is endless, Greta.
      VAN SUSTEREN: Is there, I mean like where is most of your frustration? Is it directed at a particular person? I mean I know that fundamentally that you want information about your daughter. Every parent wants that. But is there someone who you think is standing in the way more than another?
      TWITTY: I don’t think it’s someone. I think it’s something. I think it’s the dishonesty that has been coming out of that island since May 31st and all we have wanted for them to be as honest with us and be forthcoming and tell us and lead us in the proper direction. That’s all we’ve asked. That’s all we’ve asked of them.

    152. Patti on January 19th, 2007 5:02 pm


      It looks like we just found your $64 question!!

    153. Janet on January 19th, 2007 5:50 pm

      Those who criticize the calling of a boycott …. need to be able to provide an alternate solution that will put pressure on the “powers that be” in Aruba to conduct a just investigation into the disappearance of an American citizen.
      Gov. Bob Riley called for a nationwide travel boycott of Aruba on Tuesday on behalf a missing Alabama teenager’s family, who accuse the island’s government of not fully cooperating with the investigation into her disappearance
      HOLLOWAY: ….. I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can’t help you anymore.
      The Senate-passed resolution said a boycott is needed because the investigation into Holloway’s disappearance “has been plagued with an unacceptable amount of missteps, miscommunications and inconsistencies.”

      “It’s my hope this will cause the Aruban people to be more demanding that their officials conduct a thorough investigation,” French said.
      “The only leverage that we have in getting any traction in the investigation is when they feel the effects of a boycott,” says Twitty.

    154. Richard on January 19th, 2007 6:35 pm

      For what it’s worth, Beth’s original request was to avoid traveling not only to Aruba, but to all the Netherlands Antilles islands until answers to Natalee’s case were forthcoming.

      Remember, Amy Bradley disappeared in March 19998 from a ship that was docked in Curacao.

      And remember the New Jersey man missing in Saba … and the island didn’t want to put up missing-person posters because it thought tourism might be adversely affected.

      None of the Dutch-ruled islands should be visited. If you want to travel, go somewhere that offers safety.

    155. Richard on January 19th, 2007 6:37 pm

      I hear Rammstein whining and whinging (as the British say) about how boycotts are ineffective. Tell that to the Arubans; they were jumping up and down, screaming that it was ILLEGAL for Americans to make their own decisions on where to go.

      Aruba thinks we are obligated to throw our money in their direction.

      Far as I’m concerned, let them grovel in the dirt and dust and shed crocodile tears to the Dutch. I wouldn’t give them a red cent.

      I’m sure Red (deliberate play on words here) wouldn’t either.

    156. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 6:50 pm

      Hey Molly (inhouston)

      Someone came here saying travel agency couldn’t be sued.
      HaHa Isn’t that stupid? Anybody CAN be sued for ANYTHING BuB, don’t believe it? Wait & see if another American has *something bad happen* to them they’re family will all over their ass in a New York minute. Think of all the lawyers who would be chomping at the bit to sue companys & independent agents given they have assets to seize.

    157. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 7:08 pm

      Yeah Richard!

      If the boycott is NOT having a bed effect then what are they in here whining about it for!

      Our government may have some dealing with the Dutch but thats NOT going to stop our resolve to drive your tourism down six feet under!

    158. Janet on January 19th, 2007 7:09 pm

      154. Richard
      You are correct …. originally Beth was requesting that American refrain from traveling to Aruba and Holland.
      At Large w/ Geraldo Rivera
      Friday, September 23, 2005
      BETH: Well, Geraldo, I think that we have had so many millions of people that have supported us in prayer and have sent of cards and emails. The main thing that we would like to ask right now is to please, please just consider not traveling to Aruba or within the Dutch Kingdom and territory until Natalee is returned to her country, because they can absolutely make this happen, Geraldo.

    159. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 7:10 pm

      And theres Not a damn thing you can do about it.

      oops i meant bad not bed

    160. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 7:30 pm

      And since AHATA or whatever the name is that is located in NY & other offices in Florida are next in line

    161. Richard on January 19th, 2007 8:07 pm

      Rammstein, I think you overlook the important point here.

      You say: “The Dutch have other things on their mind then a missing persons case on an autonomous part of the Kingdom. We have our own issues and they are our first and primary focus.”

      Well, fine. We Americans have many things on our collective minds as well.

      But as Henry (Scoop) Jackson, a Washington State (?I think, anyway) said back in the 1970s or thereabouts: Politics stop at the water’s edge.

      What is at issue in the Natalee Holloway case? Why does it receive (and justly, in my view) so much media attention?

      Because it is NOT just another missing person case.

      An American citizen has gone missing in a foreign country, and from day one that foreign country has done its utmost to lie, spin and otherwise obstruct an investigation.

      Think of it: one family against the government of a country.

      The Holloway Twitty family, since day one, have had to contend not with a smug little prick (pardon my language), not with an obstructionist lawyer, not with an indifferent and on-the-take police force …


      You say the American and Dutch people have many common goals. (You didn’t say it that way, but such, I gather, is the gist of your remarks.) Surely a common interest in having justice done is among the ideals we share?

      Are you Dutch indifferent to the tarnish that this case puts on your image? I won’t say what it does to Aruba, because in my eyes the whole Netherlands Antilles are a no-go zone to be avoided at all costs.

      But make no mistake: your claim that the Dutch have other priorities does not, in my view, exempt you from blame.

      If you acquiesce in the cover-up, then what does that say about your view of justice? Atrocities are, after all, a grouping of individual cases.

      Take refuge behind your dikes, if you will … but don’t come crying for help when they burst.

    162. Richard on January 19th, 2007 8:09 pm

      That should be Henry (Scoop) Jackson, a U.S. senator from Washington state.

    163. Richard on January 19th, 2007 8:12 pm

      And if the Dutch don’t have any power on Aruba … why did the Arubans say the whole investigation is being run from the Netherlands anyway, so if you don’t like what we’re doing go complain to them?

      The Dutch replaced a whole government in the Netherlands Antilles because of a corrupt accounting system. Let’s see them do it in Aruba because of a corrupt justice system.

    164. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 8:32 pm

      And to the moron trying to pit Dave against Beth in one of the posts above, give it up fool coz no matter what happens between Beth & Dave (which i say you are FOS anyway) NATALEE and bringing her home is what this boycott is all about coz nothing else matters.

    165. Rammstein on January 19th, 2007 8:39 pm


      Geeh, Arubans that lie, how untypical of the Aruban government to have said something that isn’t true ::) ::)

      And the dutch government replaced the entire government of the Antilles because of corrupt accounting? When exactly would that have taken place?

    166. Patti on January 19th, 2007 9:07 pm

      Stick Around, Rammstein:

      There’s just so much that you didn’t know.

    167. Janet on January 19th, 2007 9:27 pm

      This is not about a missing eighteen year old American girl who when missing on foreign soil under suspicous circumstand …. people in the democracies of the free world go missing every day under suspicous circumstance.
      It is all about a corrupt investigation that is denying Natalee Holloway justice … it is all about a corrupt investigation that has an agenda to distance their own from being implicated and held accountable.
      This is why the “powers that be” in the Netherland should be concerned about the Natalee Holloway investigation in Aruba …. this is why somebody with authority in the United States administer should be picking up the phone and …. demanding a just investigation out of Aruba or else.
      ART WOOD
      Dana Pretzer Interview
      I have never given up on this case, I believe it can be solved. There are too many ppl involved in the coverup. There’s couple of things that could happen to solve the case.. The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an americn citizen there. I believe it could be solved that way, more than likely the case would be solved if somebody would talk. There are at least 5 people in the disappearance and coverup and if they talked it could be solved.
      ART WOOD
      ‘Rita Cosby Live & Direct’ for December 1
      ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There’s a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there’s a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

    168. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 9:48 pm

      Personally for me… it’s apathetic, lackidaisical schlock
      like that which was spewed by post # 148 is why
      I keep fighting the urge to punch the next Dutch
      person I see in the face.

      Many seem to behave like the Van der Sloots!

      I am so tired about hearing about the things
      we have in common, and what great allies we are…

      ..and then when we ask earnestly, sincerely, and respectfully
      for help with the Holloway
      Case from the Dutch… many try to ‘SPLAIN’ how really
      unimportant ‘THE GIRL’ is, and tell us a litany of
      things that can’t be done to help.

      ( many do so disparagingly too. )

      That is how the Van der Sloots act. Disrespectful,
      insincere, and they TELL THE TRUTH


      We ain’t so close, if they can help with
      something like this!

      MAYBE We weren’t such good allies, after all?

      Maybe I’d stand and fight a Talibani
      with one… but other than that, the apathetic
      attitude of most Dutch pertaining to the
      Holloway Case makes me want to spit.
      (and mostly in their faces)


      That are some great people and posters.

      Peter de Vries, Arubaanse, Robert and Linda.

      These people have shown that they care,
      and have actually helped advance the ball in one
      way or another.

      Hey Rammstein-
      Take your attitude and
      stick it up your ass. -J4N

    169. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 9:50 pm

      Thank You Janet for posting what Art said, they can extradite these thugs to the US. Maaaan we’d all be soo happy to that happen. I’m praying for that everyday.

    170. Molly on January 19th, 2007 11:39 pm

      #156, mayan: Notice that I didn’t answer that post? Stupid to say that someone can’t sue. You know they would. With all the information that is out now, everyone is responsible for where they book travelers. Every lawyer around would want that case, if something else bad happens to an American on Aruba. I don’t wish anything bad on any tourists, but don’t test the waters on Aruba.

      Boycott Aruba

      molly (in Houston)

    171. Molly on January 19th, 2007 11:55 pm

      So when are the Kalpoops coming over here for their little lawsuit. I can’t wait for them to get on US soil. Somebody must squeeze the truth out of them. Who does Art Wood pick for a good leak in the circle of lies?

      molly (in Houston)

    172. mayan_moons on January 20th, 2007 12:17 am

      I’m with ya 100% on that Molly! And you’re right we donn’t want another tourist hurt be them American or not but who we’re talking about aye, Aruba where they can’t control the crazys coz they can’t tell them from the locals. Its going to happen….just a matter of time.

    173. Richard on January 20th, 2007 8:00 am

      In re your question about where and when, Rammstein, I’ll have to do some research. My memory tells me that the corruption was in Curacao, and I think in the 1970s or 1980s. I’ll do my best to pin it down. Actually, I imagine that you will have the information in Holland….

    174. Richard on January 20th, 2007 8:03 am

      Janet, the FBI may have, on paper, the theoretical right to go in. But without cooperation from Aruba, I don’t think they would get very far. That’s not how I want it to be, but that’s how I think it is in reality.

      If Aruba refused to cooperate, refused to open their files, refused to provide translators, refused to summon people for interrogation … possibly even refused to allow the FBI on the island … what could we do?

      And more important, would our own government press the point? So far, it seems indifferent, possibly because we want all the Caribbean “friends” we can get in the face of Venezuela and Cuba.

    175. Janet on January 20th, 2007 11:12 am

      174. Richard

      A “friend” of the United States of American would not deny one of Her citizens a just investigation.

      It is a sad day when what was considered one of the greatest/strongest democracies on the face of the earth has to appease the likes of Aruba for “protection” …. appease Aruba while denying Her own.

      It is Aruba that should be appeasing the “powers that be” in American. One phone call to Aruba from someone with authority in the American administration demanding answers or else …. should have Aruba trembling.

      The principle is absolute …. if a government or an individual does not do right because it is right … then consequences have to be the motivator.

    176. Richard on January 20th, 2007 12:48 pm

      I agree with you totally, Janet. But it seems that so far, our government is indifferent.

      And in the absence of action by the Dutch, or by the Americans, or (preferably) by both … I don’t think Aruba is going to lift a finger.

    177. Waterboy on January 20th, 2007 1:15 pm

      I’m asking again.

      Does anyone know anything about a young girl who was missing about 1 year before Natalee disappeared? Could it be an understatement ” we have done this about 20 times before and nothing ever went wrong.” Could it be that something else did go wrong?

      S.M. got any answers?


      SM:   It was Dave that mentioned a girl missing a year before and I have no idea if it was a local or a tourist (klaasend)

    178. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 20th, 2007 1:17 pm

      Some links would be nice, if anyone has any.


    179. Janet on January 20th, 2007 1:30 pm

      177. Waterboy

      Sunday, October 1, 2006

      Dave Holloway talks with Dana Pretzer regarding another girl who went missing on Aruba one year prior to Natalee’s disappearance.

    180. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 20th, 2007 1:56 pm



      I appreciate it.


    181. yoyo muffintop on January 21st, 2007 2:40 pm

      #31 pearl – depth of valor and honor of JQK? Uh…he’s an advocate for his client, the Holloway/Twitty family, that is all. Do you know his past clients – if you did, you would understand that lawyers are only advocates for their clients.
      FYI – He does not ride a white horse to work everyday.

    182. arubaboy on January 21st, 2007 3:19 pm

      #177 I cannot recall a case of a missing person on Aruba 1 year before Natale disappeared and still not found.
      Indeed girls went missing on Aruba before. Happened before that young girls fell in love with some one on the Island and then wanted to stay a few more days with their lover. It sounds crazy but I can assure you it is true. Hiding from their family a few days and then turned up again……
      The sad thing is that the Aruba police thought in the early days of the disappearance of Natalee that something like this happened and Natalee will come out a few days later.

    183. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 21st, 2007 5:33 pm


      The best I can recall, the skeletal remains of a girl missing over a year, was found in Oct. of 05.

      If I’m not mistaken, they found her in a site were old appliances, scrap lumber etc. was dumped, and it was an area they had looked before.

      I can’t find anything on the internet. Dave Holloway did mention the girl in the link given by Janet, but that’s all, he just mentioned it.

    184. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 21st, 2007 5:53 pm

      To all,

      I just read what I wrote, and it sounds cold and distant. I did not intend for it to come out that way. When I said Dave just mentioned it, the it is not in reference to the girl, only the disappearance and the report, but not the girl.

      Someone somewhere loved that girl, and if no one on this earth did: God sure does.


    185. Richard on January 21st, 2007 7:53 pm

      Given that Aruba can hardly be bothered to investigate when their own people turn up in a cave with their heads, arms and legs cut off, and their bodies burned …

      (Oh yes, I forgot … that was suicide)

      … Or to worry when Americans are drugged in a casino and beaten and raped, or kidnapped in the parking lot of Carlos ‘n’ Charlies, or assaulted on the beach …

      … think they’re going to worry about an abandoned body?

      “How much money do you have?”

    Leave a Reply

    Support Scared Monkeys! make a donation.

    • NEWS (breaking news alerts or news tips)
    • Red (comments)
    • Dugga (technical issues)
    • Dana (radio show comments)
    • Klaasend (blog and forum issues)
    E-mail It