RSSNatalee Holloway; June 21, 2005
From Fox News: Holloway family may to sue to demand Aruban authorities share what evidence they have.
Meanwhile, the family of the Alabama high school honors student said they were preparing a lawsuit that demands Aruban authorities share what evidence they have.
Aruban authorities have come under fire as media reports have portrayed the Caribbean island’s efforts in the investigation as less than satisfactory.
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169 Responses to “Natalee Holloway; June 21, 2005”
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Encouraging on the part of the family, but I’ve read where the aruban auth’s have responded/stated that a judge will only rule on the suit if the detainee(s) are indicted. Not sure if this is the proper interpretation. Meaning, no indictment, no ruling, no access to any evidence. And, the circus continues.
Comment and/or clarification ?
Where are Dutch translators?
well that spokesdude for the Aruban government, he’s an OK chap, the way the Dutch system works, they don’t publish any information until there is an indictment and if any information leaks out before hand it can be grounds for a charge to be thrown out, ie. a technicality and that is the last thing the Aruban police and prosecution want
when you think about it, that is how it works in North America except when celebrities or high profile people are involved, you normally don’t hear all the facts until an indictment or charge comes down
personally I think North American cops tell too much, let the press whine, jeopardizing a case is not worth it…..it’s no better than Geraldo giving troop positions during the Iraqi War – why telegraph to the bad guy unless like in the sniper case they were playing mind games with the sniper…….
I am confused as to why the family thinks they “have a right” to know/see all the evidence. I don’t disagree that they are rightfully frustrated at the pace the case is moving at but I don’t see how they can “demand” information.
I just don’t think that it’s going to help the case very much and could compromise evidence.
My entry from the forum:
‘This lawsuit will not even reach the court formally while the investigation is still ongoing. The family having acces to policerecords even before miss Holloway is found is unheard of and might even jeopardize the case in court’.
In the possibility that there will be a trial the case has to be treated as unbiased as possible. If the Holloways or anybody for that matter gain acces to proof collected against the suspects and the evidence is given to the MSM (and that is likely) these guys will be tried by the media and the public. A result can be that the defense attorneys can make a claim that his clients are already tried and should be given a less severe sentence. A good judge will keep that in mind as he/she is reviewing the evidence as provided by the DA. Judges here in the Netherlands hate it when someone important in the media or a member of the parliament publicly give comments on the case while it is still in court and under review.
That has to do with the strickt seperation of the powers and judges will mention it in their verdict when they think someone in for instance parliament is crossing the line. (happend as we speak)
The basics:
-Police gathers evidence/suspect are interviewed
-The DA decides if there is enough evidence for trial
-He/she offically indicts the suspects and tells the court and the media why he or she is doing that. The defense makes a statement that their client is innocent or not responsable for (maybe in this case) murder.
-The judge sets a trialdate.
-Trial begins, everybody is presenting evidence and witnesses (can be a long process)
-Trial ends, jugde says when he/she will pass a verdict.
-Verdict is read, the perpetrator gets his sentence in jailtime minus the time spent in prison during the investigation and trail (voorarrest) and the defence has two weeks to decide if they go to an appealcourt.
(appeals can be made up to the European court for human rights)
Lizzie, the family realizes the authorities are not going to solve this case – whether it is because of the lack of experience or the fact that Aruba has nothing to gain by solving the case . However, the Holloway family and the Mountain Brook community DOES have enough wealth and connections to bring in investigators that will solve it. Aruba doesn’t want this because they already look like idiots because of their inability to handle 3 spoiled children(suspects). The fact that the family is the one that did the initial investigative work to bring the 3 suspects in is telling enough about their capabilities. Aruba is treating this case just like most foreign countries handle cases with Americans – it’s not one of their own and they really hate Americans anyway – just want our money – so they feel the girl got what she deserved and would rather let it die down.
I would demand the evidence as well. Aruba will never turn it over – they haven’t done the right thing yet and I’m sure they don’t plan to do the right thing in the future. They are just waiting out the 116 days so they can say they did all the could and have to let the suspects go. Aruba knows if they turn over the evidence, the case will be resolved by an American investigative team and that will embarrass them more.
This whole case is disgusting. I don’t know if this case is big enough to encourage a boycott but that is the only way to make them pay for the injustice they have done.
Enough about Aruba being responsible for anything. Where is the responsibility of the parents, the chaperones, and the whole idea that children make educated decisions….
It is tragic that this would happen to anyone but I for one would never allow my daughter to travel abroad on such a risky escapade where no one would be responsible for her. Lunacy!
Natalee was a vicitm of opportunity I am sure there are plenty of wolves in sheep clothing in Aruba and everywhere else in this world that pounce on defensless people when the opportunity arises. Thats about what it amounts to taking advantage of people for their on pleasure or personal gain.
Read this concerning missing in the Caribbean the way things are handled down there:
http://www.richmond.com/output.aspx?id=1667 part I
http://www.richmond.com/output.aspx?id=1668 part II
http://www.richmond.com/output.aspx?id=1669 part III
VJ Singhnas. . .this is a tragedy and while I don’t disagree with your statements entirely they will do us no good right now. Spouting out how smart you are and how much better a parent you are is not relevant here. Congrats on making good decisions and not letting yourself get caught up in the mob mentality of “BUT Everybody is doing it. . .I’ll be the only one not going”
Hindsight’s 20/20
Natalees only fault was she was too trusting of people!
The way I see it is that Natalee’s Mom has no other choice but to try to take things into her own hands at this point. The Arubian police have to have information on these suspects by now ( at least I sure hope so) meanwhile Mr. Twitty has been in Aruba for over three weeks now waiting day after day to try to find out what happened to Natalee. It is her right to know if her daughter is dead or alive and I truely believe that the authorities have to at least have a pretty good idea if its the former or the latter. They should at least let Natalee’s Mom know that much. Something is just not right in the way this investigation has been going and if I were Natalee’s Mom I would be doing the same thing! I actually think she has been pretty patient and calm considering the circumstances! People need to put themselves in this families shoes.
Vj Singhnas,
Hindsight is 20/20. The trip looks risky in retrospect but this could have happened anywhere. Natalee probably made a mistake. She got into a car with a local guy, but she had had some intraction with him so it is understandable. This is one of the top schools in the USA and these students were responsible types. In the future such trips will face greater scrutiny and there will be more safety precautions.
That said, the Aruban authorities did not take the case seriously until the family, media, and American public raised a fuss. The investigation was botched. A more professional police force would not have helped Natalee, but it would have insured a higher probability of justice being done.
The so called chaperones were useless. What did they go for? Who needs help with
as passport, etc. as was quoted. The help needed was to protect girls like Natalee from
using poor judgement. Also, doesn’t the family realize that any leakage of the evidence
will throw out the case? It is a catch twenty -two all the way around however. Being in
their shoes I know must be maddening, not knowing anything, who could stand that?
I thought the suspects filed to see the evidence against their clients? And they were given the evidence to review. Also I thought the judge ruled he would only hold them 8 more days. Who is coming up with the 116 or whatever.
Jgirl, the Chaperones were there as “Adult Advisors”. Say one of the kids was injured while on the trip. An adult would need to be there to give consent for surgery or treatement. As far as passports go I’m not sure. But they weren’t there to “supervise” they were there in case of an emergency or say the Hotel messed up the reservations and an adult needed to handle that.
If you truly think that having even 40 more chaperones would have changed this situation you are kidding yourself.
Diaagree Lizzie. A friend of mine took a group of graduates to the Caribbean, and they
all came back safe. Head counts several times a day, all left together at night, etc…
Adult advisors hardly necessary, I never heard of such a thing. Having gone to Mexico many times myself, we always used the buddy system.
That means the 3 suspects first held could be released on the 28th of June. (Joran and the two brothers) No evidence from what I understand
Dennis:
” This is one of the top schools in the USA and these students were responsible types.”
Do you know any people who graduated from Beverly High, CA? Responsible types? My foot!
I agree with jgirl . They teach you in scuba diving to use the buddy system . This is no different. You dont want to be a 18yr old girl by yourself in a foreign land.
JGirl. . so you don’t think advisors need to be on trips to take care of emergencys?
These are 18 year old people and while I DO think that there should have been more chaperones I don’t think they would have prevented this situation. And I think that “head counts” and “bed checks” are a bit extreme for 18 year olds. That would take forever to do and would be almost impossible considering that many of the students hung out in other people’s room.
I assume you would like them to put tape on the outside of their door after midnight so they can tell if they “Sneak Out”
All the leaks will ensure that this case never goes to trial. The only reason I can see that the parents are sabotaging this case is that they know what really happened and they don’t want it to come out at trial.
Explain that for me Kim?
Lizzie-If these 18 year olds were responisble enough to be “blasted” all week in a foreign country, then should have been able to handle a passport and get to a hospital if someone fell.
If these chaperone’s had any guts at all they would get on TV and make themselves available for interviews, but they don’t. They are spineless, jellyfish who deserve the worst in life and will be reminded everyday of the pain they caused young Natalee. I’m so sick and tired of people on the boards defending them. They are and were useless.
Jerry, I agree with you that the Buddy system is key in traveling in a group. But her friends did not do that for whatever reason and now. . . you see where we are. I wish the chaperones would have stress that more than they did but I don’t think that any of this is the chaperones fault.
In My opinion Natalee’s parents should know things about the investigation, If it was your son or daughter wouldn’t you want to know what was going on, It is there Daughter that is missing and she has been missing for 23 days counting today and they still do not have any answers. How Frustrating for them, and how sad, I know aruban laws are different than ours but something seems to be wrong here not saying that it is anyone’s fault. I just wonder what the boys are saying and what is happening, they have to have something on them or they wouldn’t be where they are now. I pray that Natalee’s family will get the answers that they are looking for. I also read that one of the brothers Satish may be let go due to the fact he doesn’t seem to know very much about this is this true?
Eighteen year olds in a foreign land obviously need to be supervised very closely, had this been the case, Natalee would not be missing. Sorry, but should have had chaperones, instead of advisors. More young women come up missing , or raped in foreign countries then being in need of any medical care or surgery. I blame the friends as well.
I pray for her family and hope they find Natalee be it dead or alive for closure to this disappearance and for everyone concerned. Bye all ,have to mow the grass.
Absolutely Jgirl–Where were Natalee’s roommates that night?? Three girls get home at say 2 AM, have to get up at 7AM and a roommate is missing. They don’t report it until 9:30 AM as they are LOADING THE BUS, PEOPLE!! What is going on? They are as guilty as anyone.
I think that the naivity of high schoolers led to her not being reported.
You know how it is. . your friend is missing and you don’t want to report them b/c maybe nothing it wrong and then you BUST them out and all the sudden they are in trouble. I’m sure the girls knew Natalee was missing but just kept hoping and hoping she would show up and be alright.
Many young people hesitate to get involved b/c they don’t want to “tattle tale” or “Rat out” their friends. This often makes the situation worse but they are thinking more of the “I’m in trouble” consequences rather than the “something bad could have happened” consequences.
Same reason Teenagers die in drunk driving accidents. They KNOW they should drive but are too scared to confess to their parents that they made a mistake and need a ride home. Instead they end up killing their friend or themself.
It’s the teenage mentality and it cost valuable hours in this investigation. . .not that the Aruban police would have cared.
Mike – That does sound odd, only thing I can come up with is they were covering for her as a friend, maybe?? Still I would’ve been worried through the night if she had not shown in a couple of hours.
Right Lizzie, I think this was the case on reporting her missing early on.
I think the parents should NOT rock the boat and bring on a lawsuit.
I agree that here in the USA we are info junkies – esp. in high profile cases – the media tries to run things and bullies and badgers people into making statements and leaking details.
I only want thouroughness in this case and if it takes 144 days of holding these wannabe third world playboys, so be it.
It’s best that we don’t taint their system. No one wants to see this come out as a stalemate and newsleaks help no one. The U.S. media just needs to have some patience and respect other peoples’ way of doing things.
Can you imagine if a judge ruled on the Mike Jackson or OJ case instead of tainted dummy jurors?
I’m not happy that the punks had ten days of roaming before their incarceration, but what do you expect out of a country like this?
Bringing in some lawyer from the States is not going to SOLVE this case and worse yet, when the details get to the media – as we all know will happen – it could set all these punks free.
Sit tight, I know it’s tough, but let the law gather info as it can and piece it together.
Gilligan. . I agree
Patience is a virtue despite being of no comfort to most
Now, I stand in agreement with you on that last post Lizzie!
absolutely!
any trip that includes over 125 people is the first mistake. If they didnt think that someting bad would happen iwth that many people, what can you expect?
It’s not always true that there is “safety in numbers”
i travelled all over africa at 18 on my own or with a few people.. but if i had been with agroup of 120? ha!
but none of that makes them to blame, just something hopefully they will consider for next time…
Jgirl, I think we are on the same page just misunderstanding each other
From what I have heard the Aruba trip was not school sponsered and had been going on for several years. While a lot of the parents had reservations about the trip it was the “Thing to do” and Mountain Brook seems like a city where everybody goes with the flow and wants to stay “in the norm”. Nothing had gone wrong on previous trips so WHY would anything happen this time? Many forget that it takes a few times to play with fire before you get burned.
Follow this link on my name for a site concerning Amy Bradley. The articles I, II, and III (id=1667 and id=1668 and id=1669 respectively) tell about Amy’s disappearance and the happenings and lack of happenings in trying to find her or at the least trying to find any leads.
Amy disappeared in March, 1998 in the Caribbean.
It would be hard to be a parent , and trying to follow the rules of evidence etc. in a
different country to not know if your child is dead or alive. Unfortunatley, if all believed that Natalle is alive, I think everything would be different. We would at least know that, and the search would have gone off the island as well as house to house there. All things point to looking for a body now, not a person, and that is very sad and upsetting.
Aruba – What a friendly island. It is great sport for us to get your teenage daughters drunk and defile them. Why, at the lighthouse and by the mangrove at the hilton the ground is covered with used condoms from such great adventures. Even the workers at these bars enjoy the show – night after night. Joran and his buds just made the mistake of going pharmaceutical. But hey, they all got laid before she overdosed. What a friendly island.
It’s a tragedy all of the way around, no matter what the outcome turns out to be.
We also might not ever know what really occured. I’ve followed this much too closely,
and even felt involved at one point.
Kismette. What was the Amy website address again?
jgirl and everyone else placing blame….. Why don’t you BLAME THE FREAKIN INDIVIDUALS who did this to Natalee…. What the hell is wrong with you people…. Sure, let’s blame her parents, her friends, the chaperones, the school, ALL WHO ARE HURING RIGHT NOW NOT ONLY BECAUSE THEY MISS AND LOVE NATALEE BUT FROM BEATING THEMSELVES UP OVER OVER WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE… I’m sure they really appreciate your sympathy and compassion at a time like this…. Yall’s “holier than thou” attitude really sickens me… as if any of you have NEVER done anything stupid in your life and especially not at the age of 18… I hope none of you ever finds yourself or your loved ones in any of the roles (parents of a missing teen; chaperones on a trip; friend of a helpless vicitm) that you are all so quick to criticize because what goes around comes around and you will find yourself eating those words one day… but I know yall will have a good reason and will somehow find a way to shift the blame on someone else… so do me a favor and STOP STATING THE OBVIOUS…. Do you actually think that the chaperones, her friends, and her parents don’t already blame themselves enough without your condescending attitudes!!! jeez
thats right dixie, they are not to blam anyone knows that a 18 yr old is not going to listen to anyone they think they are grwon and its not going to happen to them so its not anyones fault she just made a bad decision and this led to other things, its not just 1′s fault
it’s www dot richmond dot com/output.aspx?id=1667
the other posts I did with the link in there are STILL awaiting moderation :/
Well, some good news – they found the scout in Utah alive and well.
Yeh right people, we have been talking for a while about who is faulty or not. What happened to natalee is her own fault come on. I’ve been to Holland when I was 18, I lived there alone I did what every normal tee would do. I stayed there for four months. NOTHING HAPPENED TO ME.
To be clear it was the first time I went to Holland. It seems the level of some graduates are not that high. Only stuff.
Whoa Dixie. . .chill out.
Nobody is blaming anybody for anything. I think we are just discussing the situation and determing if anything could have/should have been handled differently. They only way we can make sure this NEVER happens again is to examine what lead up to her disappearing. What is wrong with having a healthy discussion?
I have done plenty of stupid things in my life and i have said so on this board. I am grateful that the poor decisions I made were with the right people and nobody ever took advantage of me.
I think you attidude of “what comes around goes around” is very immature and Karma will find you too for your ridiculous words.
Clearly you are VERY emotionally involved in this case. I suggest you quit reading boards like this where total strangers, NOT close to the situation can spew any opinion you like. It will be better for your health and well being if you don’t attempt to convince anyone by yelling at them and wishing “bad things on them”
Breathe. . .
Mike Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 2:54 pm
Absolutely Jgirl—Where were Natalee’s roommates that night?? Three girls get home at say 2 AM, have to get up at 7AM and a roommate is missing. They don’t report it until 9:30 AM as they are LOADING THE BUS, PEOPLE!! What is going on? They are as guilty as anyone.
_________________________________________
AS I UNDERSTOOD ONE OF HER FRIENDS TO SAY IS THAT THE WHOLE GROUP WAS SPREAD OUT EVERYWHERE IN THE HOTEL. THEY THOUGHT NATALEE WAS STAYING IN ANOTHER ROOM WITH OTHER FRIENDS. Or maybe, MIKE, they said HEY. You know even though Natalee is my best friend I decided that I don’t like her very much anymore so I’m just not going to say anything about her disappearing. Now THAT would make her friends “”guilty”" as you put it.
Dixie, while I understand your defensiveness, we are addressing things that could have
prevented this, and hopefully will in future trips. l8 much too young to go alone. It is a
given to blame the others, there is no use to harp on that, they will be handled by the
Justice system, God, or karma for petes sake! Of course we blame whoever harmed her, but what could have prevented it, and future departures damn sure deserves some discussion and thought!
I posted this early morning on the page “Natalee Holloway; What Some Arubans Are Saying”. I think it bears repeating….
Kismette Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 1:34 am
I am disappointed in how the whole disappearance of Natalee has been handled as well as some of the ignorance shown by some people here. No one is saying the civilian Arubans are responsible. People are saying the Law Enforcement Officials are responsible for NOT doing everything within their power and beyond to find this young girl. Whether she is naive or whether she shouldn’t have gone with the locals or whether they did or didn’t have something to do with this isn’t the issue.. neither is the crime rate in either country… valuable clues and forensic evidence have been forever lost because of the negligence of the Aruban officials and their LACK of urgency in solving this missing persons case. THIS is the issue. THIS is why people have suggested boycotting travel there. The fact that a high ranking official’s child has been detained really isn’t the issue.. it’s just an exclamation point to this entire case.
I hope she’s found alive and well and returned to her family as soon as possible.. and if she’s not alive, I hope her body is found soon so that her family can grieve and find closure in this ordeal and move on with their lives beyond the agonizingly sickening heartache of not knowing.
Praying for something good for this family,
K
Lizzie, I wasn’t talking to you. Thanks, but BITE ME.
I was responding to JGIRLs post as follows:
———————————————————-
jgirl Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 2:51 pm
Eighteen year olds in a foreign land obviously need to be supervised very closely, had this been the case, Natalee would not be missing. Sorry, but should have had chaperones, instead of advisors. More young women come up missing , or raped in foreign countries then being in need of any medical care or surgery. I blame the friends as well.
Gilligan Says: “I think the parents should NOT rock the boat and bring on a lawsuit.”
HONESTLY! That statement is absurd Gilligan!
If you had a missing daughter, you’d do anything in your power to find a way to bring her home. I can assure you I sure as hell would “rock the boat!”
Gilligan & Julie,
The report of a law suit is being miss interpeted. It is a part of the process in Aruba for them to be able to gain access to evidence. It’s not a lawsuit in the same sense that you think of in the US.
To Michele:
Did you get the webpage? I posted it and the links to the II and the III article but the moderators haven’t okayed them yet to be shown to all … go figure…
if you missed it (and I am putting in unneccessary spaces just take’em out when you cut and paste) here is the addy again for the first artcle on Amy Bradley.
www . richmond . com/output . aspx?id=1667 part I
Dixie…………Dixie………….You are so right . Blame the victims. I can’t believe some of the posts i’ve been reading. Where do these people come from? BOYCOTT ARUBA
Gilligan and Julie:
uhm.. as Justin T said.. it’s not a monetary lawsuit.. it’s for information being held back by the officials… the family obviously (whether right or wrong) feels that they aren’t following every lead to the fullest and/or are protecting some of the suspects.
sickofit;
i have to agree
“boycott aruba”
Blame the COUNTRY. I can’t believe some of the posts i’ve been reading. Where do these people come from?
does people think amy is alive still?
Hey Dixie-Are you are parent of someone in this group?? Sounds like you are a little defensive over your poor judgement and lack of excuse for being called a “parent”. Parents today are the problem, they make decisions to keep their kids happy, not to keep them safe. Her friends also deserve as much guilt as they can take, which apparently isn’t much since they can’t suck it up and get out and talk about or make themselves avaialble to explain things for themselves.
As you say “it was the thing to do, so why shouldn’t my kid go?” That is 100% the problem in this country today. No discipline, no accoutability and until someone starts calling these lame excuses for parents out, it isn’t going to change.
jgirl – especially in a foreign land where local sport is to get the teenage tourists drunk and “take them to the lighthouse”. EVERYONE who works at Carlos N Charlies KNOWS whats going on with the locals who prey on these teenagers, but hey, why rock the boat, the money keeps coming…such a friendly island
I haven’t written on these boards a lot, just reading them. I read them because it kind of keeps me up to date, plus I like hearing the opinions of others about what could have happened to Natalee. However, I tend to agree with Dixie here. I think she is pretty emotionally attached, but I’ll try to sum up what she’s saying in a calm manner.
I think we are all worried in our own ways because this could have happened to anyone. It is not fair at this point to blame Natalee or chaperones or parents, because we don’t know what happened yet. Maybe it’s something we haven’t even thought of. There are a lot of missing teens in the US and all over the world. It’s never their fault. You can never blame a victim, even if they should have known better.
In a nutshell, I think we should all be concentrating on the case and what is happening now…we can’t change the past. I mean, in your own time, you can call the school systems in your local area and verify that they are not following in Alabama’s footsteps here, but that’s about all you can do.
Try and talk about the future, ya know? Theories, etc.
Natalee is a victim. Her mother is a victim. The school is broken-hearted. That’s enough pain for them for now. Let’s leave it at that.
I’ll tell you where her roomates were – they were having drinks bought for them by other “locals”. Obviously their thinking was impaired.
I know that some of Natalee’s friends (or would they be enemies according to what some of you say) used to be on this board a lot and hopefully now they are not since yall have deemed them guilty as well. My point was that you are stating the obvious and to think that we need someone like you YOUR HIGHNESS LIZZIE and YOUR HIGH-ERNESS JGIRL to point out that there were some bad decisions made is demeaning. I’m sure they blame themselves already. All I was saying is that if you were in Natalee’s friend’s shoes would you want someone blasting you.
im with you dixie, i dont know natalee and i live on 280 which is right by mtnbrk but i feel like its wrong alos to be saying that it was here friends fault. they had no control over her anyway so like they could have stopped her
Just read that article and either that is very old information or she has scooped every news media in the country! It was reported a long time ago about a confession. It’s almost as bad as the guy from the Diario that reported she was being held by drug lords and being transported off the island. True or not very irresponsible for them to report it.
Boycott Aruba is right. I had looked at going to Aruba on vacation, but decided on San Diego instead. Why are people that do not even know these boys defending them. It is one thing to be innocent until proven guilty, but when you bring suspicion to yourself. Joran, Deepak and the younger brother are not forthcoming. There was a picture on Joran’s website that was very disturbing.
We need to put the pressure on the Aruban government, Dutch government, other local carribean islands. We should bring in international agencies, focus,focus, focus on Natalee and on the fact that things are suspicious. Bring interpole and the DEA.
Americans should boycott Aruba until answers are forthcoming. Americans get talked about, but Americans are loved for the money they spend somewhere.
Natalee is there. She is waiting to be found. Those 4 suspects hold the key and it is time they gave it up. The father should not be allowed to talk with his son until they get some real answers. The evidence that has been discovered can help the family and the specialists down there to possibly further determine what has happened to Natalee. If I could go down there, I would be down there right now helping to find her. I believe I could.
elaine i would be to and you know we could probably do a better job than they have and we would bring her home
It’s my understanding from reading a report on CNN that there is not contemplation of a law suit. Rather the Aruban attorney representing the family sent a letter to the justice ministry asking that Natalee’s mother be allowed to join the prosecution’s case as a victimized party. If granted it will give her access to more information. My impression from the broadcast version of the story is that this type of request is not unusual.
The article said (paraphrased in part)
“Meanwhile, Holloway’s family has hired a local attorney, Vinda de Sousa, who said Tuesday she has filed a letter under Aruban law that will allow Natalee’s family to join the prosecution case as the victimized party.
De Sousa said the move will give the family greater access to information gathered in the investigation. Nonetheless, she described information-sharing between police, prosecutor and Holloway’s family as “good.”
The link is
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/21/aruba.holloway/
Dixie: For What it’s worth I wasn’t blasting anybody. I was the one saying that while I think there should have been more chaperones. . . they they were there to baby sit them and I don’t think having more chaperones would have changed the situation.
And you saying “to point out that there were some bad decisions made is demeaning” is interesting. I guess that you should never examine a situation if someone’s feelings are going to get hurt. Heaven forbid you learn from a situation and be more alert because of it. Heaven forbid you point out that “someone might have dropped the ball”. If these 18 year olds are adults then they should be able to understand that and know that you can NEVER prevent a situation until you know what causes it.
I am not blaming anyone and I am sorry if Natalee’s friends feel guilty. I would feel guilty too even if all the “right” decisions would have been made. Simply being on the trip and it not happening to you but to one of your best friends is already a burden as it is on these young people.
I’m sorry you are so angry about this.
I have not blasted anyone, just spoke up on what might have been done to prevent.
I have never blamned Natalee either. Of course the thugs are to blame, and as I said, they will be dealt with accordingly, if not on this earth , then by a higher Judge. You must
clearly have taken me wrong, think I never did anything I regret, etc… I was merely expressing my opinion that high school trips without much supervision in another country is not very smart. I did not mean to attack or accuse anyone, just speaking in generalities, and wondering about things that seemed different from when I traveled off
with friends to foreign lands. You are very defensive, this is just a board of discussion, we are not in a court of law. The entire world feels for Natalee and her family don’t you realize that?
Mike Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 4:14 pm
“Her friends also deserve as much guilt as they can take, which apparently isn’t much since they can’t suck it up and get out and talk about or make themselves avaialble to explain things for themselves.”
______________________________
My Dearest Mike,
You are such a bleeding heart. For your information, Natalee’s friends used to post messages here a lot but I guess it was people like you that ran them off. It is so refreshing to know that you are the all-powerful; all-knowing; all-seeing; super parent that you are. I bet you have the answers to everything. Dang! I thought Lizzie was the one with all the answers.
Boycott Aruba
I would like to take this quote “Lisian Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 3:57 pm
Yeh right people, we have been talking for a while about who is faulty or not. What happened to natalee is her own fault come on. I’ve been to Holland when I was 18, I lived there alone I did what every normal tee would do. I stayed there for four months. NOTHING HAPPENED TO ME.
To be clear it was the first time I went to Holland. It seems the level of some graduates are not that high. Only stuff. ”
This is a little absurd. What happened to Natalee is not her fault. If Natalee was raped and/or murdered, drugged or whatever, that is the behavior of the person doing it. Period. IF Joran or Deepak drugged/raped/killed her that is their fault. It is like you are saying if she got raped/murdered it was simply her fault because she was there. NO, it was not her fault. If someone broke into your home or was walking down the street and walked over to you and stabbed you, is that your fault. If your friend/boyfriend got mad at you and broke both of your arms maybe that would be your fault. People make excuses for the perpatrators anymore and blame the victims. Interesting concept.
Maybe if they put Joran with someone in a cell where he will become their “bitch” for a few days it will loosen his lips. Do not blame the victim. If it were you, you might sing a different tune.
I am not sure if anyone made this post or not, but, on Greta Van Sustrand’s show last nite, she mentioned the young boy in Utah who had disappeared. He was found today, alive and well…
I don’t know if this is old news already, but, I was just crying as I was reading it. Perhaps miracles aren’t as far fetched…
ROFL, Hey Dixie can you hear me all the way up on that horse?
Amen, Elaine.
Well Said.
Lizzie,
I was going to ask you the same thing. That’s funny.
Hey guys, sorry …
Kind of last minute … Tom on radio again
http://woic.com/skin/elink.php?url=www.americasradioshow.com
Eliane,
Finally a voice of reason! It’s the same logic as saying that a girl asks to be raped because of what she is wearing.
Dixie, Why are you so angry with me? Personally I don’t think that Natalee’s friends or people close to her or the case should read stupid internet message boards. They are bound to be upset by the speculation that is posted there. Same reason why celebrities don’t read the tabliods. They know the truth and they don’t need to see what ideas, rumors or lies are out there. If some things posted on these boards “ran them off” as you say I think that it probably for the better.
I think you are grouping me with some other posters b/c I merely responded to your angry post addressed to “everyone”
Yes, it is saying that. Whatever happened, Joran told the Aruba polis and the Aruba polis were able to tell certain things to Natalee’s family. Joran said that they dropped her off at the HI, oh wait, we were near the Marriott, and we did have sex. Oh, but she fell asleep it was so boring, so I left her on the beach. But that was after we took her back to the HI were she fell in a drunk stupor they offered her help and she said she could take care of herself. If she was in such a drunken stupor she could not walk I highly doubt she got on the party boat and fell off as one person suggested. I highly doubt she ran away. A true “man” will not have sex with a girl that is so drunk she cannot walk. Because who’s to know what can happen? He did not change his story so many times because he is so innocent. He is a liar.
She is there on that island. The Aruban government is not cooperating as fully as possible because they are hiding alot more than Natalee or her body. Make them a focus, apply pressure and don’t let up. Natalee has at least the same rights as Joran and his posse.
Mike was the one who asked why her friends are not stepping up to the mike. One of her classmates, DASH, was interviewed on this board. And who are you to say on what board anybody should read or write. Futhermore, Lizzie, my first post wasn’t even to you it was to jgirl and you jumped in. My post was to everyone who was shifting blame. You were the first to respond. You ever heard that saying “Whoever smelt it, dealt it?” In closing if I were picking teams for a kick-pen game I would pick JGIRL before you. You need to lighten up yourself there, LIZZIE. My last post to you really was funny (really…the ha ha kind). I was laughing. But now I’m mad again. Maybe you should Breathe….
Zeke, your explanation regarding the letter (and not alleged suit) speaks volumes and puts matters in perspective. We’re talking family members who are overwhelmed with frustration and uncertainty surrounding their daughters disappearance. This would be a likely process and avenue for the family to pursue.
As for some blaming Natalees’ friends, we shouldn’t go there. One friend already acknowledged that Natalee specifically told here she was catching a cab and leaving the club that night to return to the hotel. What’s that young girl to do. When she gets back, do random checks to see if her and the other 122 can be accounted for and haven’t disappeared. For whatever its worth, none of them young people (despite the circumstances) ever suspected anything of this sort would happen.
We have a young women that was a victim of some crime. Hopefully, the nature of the crime will never forego a resolution to this case.
Dixie: clearly you are a naive 18 year old unable to carry on any resemblance of an intelligent conversation. It makes sense now as to why you defend Natalee’s friends to those who critize them for letting their friend go off alone.
There is no point in any of these kids coming forward to speak with the media and have every one they say analysized to the ninth degree. It will not change what has happened, it will not help in locating her and it will not serve Natalee’s family in any manner. They have been interviewed by the FBI and that is about all that needs to be said. Nataless’s mother asked them not to speak to the press until they found out what happened to Natalee. They have honored that request as they should.
Elaine, I agree with you. If Natalee’s family is ever going to find justice now they need to hire a “Man on Fire” and let him dish out what Natalee got. As I said if it was my child I would be giving all guilty parties one choice, “Bowels in or Bowels out?”
Call in Jack Beaur. . .maybe he’s hiding in Aruba
It was reported that Joran V.D.S.’s car and other property were appropriated for forensic investigation. Does anyone know if the property and residence of S.G. Croes is likewise being examined, considering it is conceiveable he may have helped dispose of Natalie’s body if she was killed?
jgirl andLizzie D: right on the money – thanks for some heartfelt blogging
Dixie: (and all other retards who would just assume never get anything accomplished or admit to mistakes) : it is “one way street” blowhards like you that have a good part of our country (USA) and our society in the sewer. Thank God not everybody thinks like you do. That would be your worst nightmare -to be surrounded by nothing but do nothings that never accept blame (like you are portraying with your earlier comments)
if you (Dixie) and all who share your feeling would open up your mind to self improvement you may actually have a back bone one day. Try working and paying your own bills for a start. I have this sneaking feeling that Dixie probably doesn’t (I could be wrong about that, but your attitude about no blame and no accountability usually runs hand in hand with people that live off of other peoples money)
I also think it is great that this Texas company is going to intensify (and improve the odds) in the search for Natalee. With each passing day the trail indeed grows colder. The simplicity of the chain of events in this situation however, remains as a constant. Lots of alchohol, bad judgement, lack of sufficient supervision (the most important lesson in all of this by the way) They are doing the right thing holding those three (and the d.j.) while this is still a current event and each day is another chance to put it all together.
I hope there is closure soon for the family, friends and everyone that feels for what her parents and loved ones must be going through.
On that note,I hope there is closure soon for the thousands of others gone missing, here in the USA and the rest of the world for that matter.
Sad to say in the majority of those open files (many years and years unsolved) there was no media focus,no rewards offered,no blogs with thousands of comments going in all directions,etc…
We have to ask ourselves (all of us – and dont take this the wrong way) what it is that fuels the “feeding frenzy” of attention to this case.
Pretty young blond syndrome? (if this girl were 300lbs w/acne how many of you would blog it around the clock? Her family would hurt the same as anyones including yours).
Pretty young high school grad out partying syndrome? (So what -happens all over the country and all over the world – boring after a few minutes – as a high schooler that had a blast partying w/friends I can say from first hand experience that past a certain point of balance it always became STUPID))
sleazy group sex factor? (particularly here in the USA – we are notorious for our appetite for that kind of empty, selfish, pleasure seeking that is way out of balance and needs to be addressed by all ages (not just the young). There is nothing wrong with sex, but there is a lot wrong with the animalistic and greedy way it is pursued in our country – by the way, the side effects of this sub intelligent aspect of our society are: rape,incest,AIDS,kidnappings,pedophilia,women NEVER being equal and the list goes on – ever ask yourself how a country as great as ours could be way out in front on all of those ills and evils? are we obligated to be both the greatest nation and the biggest fat pig (which is how much of the world views us) at the same time? I dont think so. This is the 21st century -we need to continue to always learn and improve – most people are good at heart just led astray by corrupt greedy images and other urban blight by the media. Most of us dont live in big cities. Why should the scummy patterns of city dwellers be the measuring stick for our society? SIMPLE – IT SHOULDN”T BE AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN – IT’S TIME TO CHANGE THAT ONCE AND FOR ALL IN THE TURN OF THE CENTURY AND AS WE ENTER THE NEW MILLENIUM we better start working together as a people and make it more “hip” to show more balance and consideration for all others.
imagine that?
like anyone with a heart and soul and conscience,(who works for a living)I hope for closure soon for this Natalee and many other cases happening now (missing UT boy was found alive today also)
p.s: save any retarded comments about the length of this blog unless you are an illiterate lazy dork. God knows I’ve seen even longer blogs than this , some good some stupid. Judge it on its content not how lazy you are.
Thanks.
Nancy Grace asked the same question last night and they said his car was not taken to be examined. They gave it to his ex to borrow.
Well stated Born to B Wild! Dixie you are just much too defensive, and that is not a good
trait, and it accomplishes nothing. Open up your mind to how other people think.
That’s the pot calling the kettle black.
I’m defensive, huh?
Kismette,
I never thought that the lawsuit was for monetary gain. I understand that it is for the parents’ right to hear undisclosed information about the case and or suspects.
WHAT THE HECK???????WHERE IS HER BODY, IF SHE IS DEAD?? I THINK SHE’S STILL ALIVE
You can tell tonight is a full moon- everyone’s stingers are out.
I never said that there should be no accountability.
I guarantee that her parents, her friends, the school, etc are all killing themselves going over then many different things that they could have/should have done. I’ve heard that her father was against her going on this trip as I will be when my 2 year old son grows up and wishes to travel on a similar trip. I don’t know where yall get off thinking that I am closed minded. Yall seem like the closed minded ones to me. The ones who want to blame everyone but the perps. All I was trying to say (since this is America and I can voice my opinion) is that all of those factors shouldn’t matter. The ones to blame are the ones who committed the act. They are the only guilty parties. Not Natalee. Not Natalee’s parents. Not Natalee’s friends. Not the school. and for crying outloud Not the Pretty Young Blond (which I just happen to be). So thanks for all of your outlandish remarks about me and my age and my employment. I’m glad that you are not running the investigation because all of your “insights” about me are completely WRONG. So thanks for playing.
I think the full moon is tomorrow night…
Dixie Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 3:50 pm
jgirl and everyone else placing blame….. Why don’t you BLAME THE FREAKIN INDIVIDUALS who did this to Natalee…. What the hell is wrong with you people…. Sure, let’s blame her parents, her friends, the chaperones, the school, ALL WHO ARE HURING RIGHT NOW NOT ONLY BECAUSE THEY MISS AND LOVE NATALEE BUT FROM BEATING THEMSELVES UP OVER OVER WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE
________________________________________________
Dixie…. you are so angry at everybody else for saying some of the blame is actually on the friends and chaperones, when you just said that all of you are hurting over what you/they should have done. Yall admit you should have done something else, which is normal to do looking back on things. but it does not make you guilty.
still… the only blame should go to who commited the crime. although, better choices and decisions could have been made by friends and chaperones to prevent what happened to Natalee.
Also, if it was so out of character for Natalee to leave with 3 men, then why didnt a friend challenge her, instead of just asking if you are ok and then just let her leave as normal.
Its kinda strange to me that out of all the students on the trip and all the the classmates at C&C that night, Natalee was the only one hanging around the boys and was the only one that left with them.
I am sure that there are other classmates that know more details about what happened, but these other classmates also have secrets of their own to hide from their family/friends. like their partying, drug use, sex , and who knows??? maybe a link to what happened to Natalee.. (it is possible). either way.. there is too many people involved to have no answers as to what happened. I have been a teenager before, and I along with everyone else knows exactly what goes on during senior trips or spring break… thats because we have been there and done it before…
plus.. the kids that are talking just contradict themselves in every statement they make….. Im not so sure of anything about this case anymore… anyone can see that there is way more to this case than just the obvious.. somebody knows something and they are hiding it.
Spoke to a close friend in Aruba today.
Buzz on the street is that Natalee has pulled a
dissappearing act in Costa Rica for a week before
all this.
Not surprised if ran away to S.A. or back home
laughung at all this.
No seriously- It’s tonight. that explains why some people are cranky. I am passionate about this case to, but I am not going to dog cuss someone I have never met just because they state their opinion, hell, we are all entitled, right? I just wanted to get in the arguments too..
aunt christine….. that news came out days into the investigation.. nothing confirmed.
I wish you were right Aunt Christine, because she would be alive. But, the buzz on the street is bullbuzz.
Natalee has never done this before, that is all rumors. I heard that last week, don’t you think if that were true, the media would be having a field day??? I think that is someones way of justifying her disappearance…..please
Just relaying what i’ve heard today. Don’t kill the
messenger.
I’ll be in Aruba in 2 weeks. Hopefully she will be
found by then.
Aunt Christine,
That is nuts! NO SHE HAS NOT PULLED THIS BEFORE! God the internet sometimes is so full of crap
GAGUY,
You are right and I feel the same way you do.
But it’s easy for us to sit back and look at what happened and say that we would have done this and that different. I just don’t feel like it’s right to go on the attack. Maybe I was wrong in thinking that “some” folks on here were talking like they were above everybody else. The only point I was trying to make is that it is apparent that some of the blame lies with other people and there is no need to state the obvious. I guarantee you that those folks know it. Yes, I share some of the same likely scenarios as you. But I don’t come right out and say how stupid I think the friends, the school, the chaperones, the parents were and it’s not right for anyone else to degrade those individuals who are themselves victims also.
SJO
Seriously my calendar says the full-moon is the 22nd??
But really, just like you I agree we are all entitled to our opinions… However some are more correct than others, you have to agree with that.
Dixie.. well said….. I agree 100%
This was in the Tuscaloosa News (my local newspaper, Tuscaloosa, AL, 50 miles from Birmingham) and it has been on my mind a lot lately:
In the Mountain Brook yearbook, Holloway’s senior quote came from the old Lynyrd Skynyrd song “Freebird.” It says: “If I leave here tomorrow, would you still remember me? For I must be traveling on now, there’s too many places I haven’t seen.”
Relatives call Holloway careful, dependable
By Jay Reeves
The Associated Press
June 05. 2005 3:15AM
Email this story.
Print this story.
MOUNTAIN BROOK | Already a world traveler at 18, Natalee Holloway is nothing if not careful and dependable, relatives say. That’s why friends knew something was wrong the instant she failed to show up for the flight home to Alabama after a senior trip to Aruba.
“Natalee being late is a tip-off,” aunt Marcia Twitty said Saturday.
Now Holloway — with sparkling eyes, long blond hair, a dancer’s legs and a heart for service — is the focus of an all-out search in an island paradise just off the coast of Venezuela.
FBI agents have joined with authorities and volunteers in Aruba in the hunt for Holloway, who plans to attend the University of Alabama on a full academic scholarship this fall and talked of joining a sorority.
Back home, dozens of Holloway’s friends and classmates attended an afternoon prayer vigil Saturday. Stores are selling out of yellow ribbon as residents put bows on trees, mailboxes and doors all over Mountain Brook.
The town, which adjoins Birmingham, is Alabama’s richest city with a median family income of $122,647, nearly four times that of the state.
“The entire community is very concerned and very much in prayer,” said longtime city manager Sam Gaston.
Holloway was known as a top student and tireless worker at Mountain Brook High School, where she graduated last month before leaving for Aruba with 124 other seniors. Twitty said seven adults went along as chaperones.
Holloway was in the National Honor Society, studied Spanish and was a member of American Field Service, which works with foreign exchange students. Her participation may have been a reflection of her travels, which Twitty said included trips to Europe, Canada and some cruises.
She was a member of the student government and sweated through long hours of practice as a member of the school dance team. But Holloway isn’t just about glitz: she also joined Natural Helpers, a peer support group, and other volunteer organizations.
For all her activities and achievements, relatives describe Holloway as having an almost childlike side, too.
“Natalee’s naive. She hasn’t dated a lot. She doesn’t party a lot,” said uncle Paul Reynolds. Holloway attends church regularly and wouldn’t ever run away, he said.
In the Mountain Brook yearbook, Holloway’s senior quote came from the old Lynyrd Skynyrd song “Freebird.” It says: “If I leave here tomorrow, would you still remember me? For I must be traveling on now, there’s too many places I haven’t seen.”
For now, relatives just want Holloway back in Alabama.
“We’re going to bring Natalee home,” said her aunt, wearing a brightly colored yard bracelet made by Holloway’s friends as a sign of support. Some of the bracelets are being shipped to Aruba for volunteers and authorities there to wear, she said.
Dixie,
That has been brought out before as well. Then it was tied to see she was talking about running away! More likely it has to do with the emotion of leaving H/S and familar friends and places and starting a new chapter in her life. I can recall having thoughts similar during that time and what was going to happen. People are really over analyizing things. The bottom line is this girl didn’t run away. She never has before, she wasn’t a slut, she wasn’t a druggie. She was a straight A student who spent time as a tutor to other students, who volunteered her time with elderly and kids and who was active in her church. I am not saying you are drawing that conclusion from her quote and I admit in light of what has happened it is interesting.
wonder why Tatoo is selling their boat….
C:\Documents and Settings\pamela wilding.PAWILDIN-TZG6NU\Desktop\Successful Charter Vessel in Aruba For Sale.htm
Dixie: of course the ultimate blame goes to the perpetrators -(I think everyone agrees on that) it is just that we live in a very “in one ear and out the other”,”zero attention span” time in our countrys history where applying self discipline in the name of bettering ourselves is all but extinct. ADMIT IT AND GROW.
Let me give you two quick examples:
1). Elisabeth Smart – Utah (who was found several months after her abduction) was kidnapped by a homeless man that had prior access to the families (unlocked) house because of some odd jobs that needed to be done.
Do you think they invite homeless people to do odd job at their house anymore? Do you think they leave ANY of their doors unlocked anymore (especially at night)?
I dont think so. Why? Not because they were “blamed” but because they LEARNED and APPLIED THE KNOWLEDGE -DUH??
Gaguy:by the way, nobody was “blaming” anybody. You are way defensive and not accurate. Your observatioon was a knee jerk and a feeble attempt at diversion.
2). Runaway Bride Georgia – ran away from pending wedding to go on to become the latest “pretty white American girl missing” story. Shows up several days later with a lie about abduction and sexual assault. She embarasses her family and an entire county and country. She obviously needs help and is currently getting it (hopefully). She is charged and found guilty of wasting a lot of peoples time,she has large fines and her wedding is postponed.
Do you think she’ll do that again anytime soon?
I dont think so.
Why? Not because of the “blame” question but because she (supposedly) has LEARNED and APPLIED THE KNOWLEDGE.
We are all capable of mistakes. It is admitting to them and putting forth the effort to apply the lessons tha is lacking so much in our country.
We better dig deep for more of what made us great in the past soon or our “unsinkable” Titanic (metaphor for our “unsinkable” country) might get ripped on the iceberg that no one accounted for once again after having early warning.
On that thought, on the same subject of applying knowledge to avoid repeats of foolish decisions/mistakes – knowing what we all now know about the night the Titanic sunk, tell me, if you had an ice floe warning hours in advance, would you slow the ship considerably until you passed through the ice field or would you go full speed ahead like Ismay suggested to make New York a day earlier?
Do you think any future HS grad parties/trips/cruises are going to be as HALF ASSED as this Aruba one was?
I rest my case.
No, Justin. You’ve got me wrong. I wasn’t insinuating that she ran away. I just felt it was ironic. Not saying that she has passed, but I have heard that people seem to “know” when they are going to leave this earth. The first time I read that I got chills. Maybe I am closed minded like some on here say that I am because I don’t immediately search for the bad in people. That’s one reason why I went ahead and attached the whole article. Nothing would make me happier than for Natalee to be found alive and that is what I pray for and like her mom said I will assume she is alive until I hear otherwise.
Just for the record: I didn’t think the runaway bride was very pretty.
All those who live in Aruba with their eyes open know the horrors in the shadows. Arubans choose to look the other way as in times past it protected their very lives….but this crime has placed the little dutch island in a very bright light…the purest form of light know as the Lord. She is in his care and will be delivered safely into his kingdom or her mothers arms, but Aruba will never recover, noone will accept she died of a OverDose and dumped into Boca Mahos, that story, told for so many years, is finally finished. She has been abducted and sold as too many of Gods lambs have been over the years. The DEA has well mapped out human trade routes and now all the world is exposed to the evil.
*Laughs at Dixie’s post about the runaway bride and her prettiness*
Had to.. could not help it.. amidst all this I needed a laugh.
Thank you!
K
You are so right, Hope!
The Kid with the Father who is a Judge is guilty.
The Kid might have used some sort of date rape drugs on the girl and things got out of hand. The girl died. The kid calls his father and the Father arranged the hidding of the body.
The Island authorities are slow to pursue one of their own legal officials. The guy from the boat is the one who acutally dumped the body offshore.
Notice that the US FBI Agents were not allowed into the houses of the Judge or the Judges kid – why not?? Not the evidence is being evaluated in the Netherlands … why not at FBI HQ? Aruba is hiding something and doing a cover up rught in front of everyone.
If a review of the phone call records is done – it would show that the Father was called by his son that nioght – and the Father then made several calls – of which he called the guy for the boat. I would even bet that the guy on the boat “owes” the Judge soemthing for a case that the Judge was on over some criminal charge – sort of a pay back of favors.
born 2 be stupid… “Your observatioon was a knee jerk and a feeble attempt at diversion” what are you talking about? if anybodys observation is an attempt of diversion it yours you ding bat!
my comment was directed to Dixie, in which she understood and resoponded..
babble on get a life you freak !
aunt christine- SHAME ON YOU! get a clue here – that is also soooooooo three weeks ago… givr me a break
Just to add my thoughts on the Holloway missing person case….. At this point, noone knows if she willingly got into the vehicle or if she was drugged in some manner and lead into the vehicle. We should all hope & pray that the Aruban authorities are doing everything in their power to solve this case and in the meantime, determine if there are any other options to exercise in case they are at fault for not investigating this case soon enough or adequately enough. The point is hind sight is 20/20, we can all judge what we think we would have done, until we are in those shoes, WE DON’T KNOW!!! I am certain that noone close to Natalee deliberately made decisions to put Natalee at risk. Please don’t point blame, we are talking about children and parents who have done their best to make the right decisions and love their children very much.
Before placing blame, think about those things first.
Were my last comments received or did I lose my connection?
Florida Girl: for the millionth time, nobody here is placing any direct “blame” – some of us are just balanced and smart enough to try to share the learning from the foolish decisions that were made leading up to this (and countless other) abductions.
If you were planning an Aruba trip for 100+ kids -knowing what you know now, what would you do differently?
(some common sense ideas: buddy systems,(nobody alone EVER during the trip)regular check ins to chaperones via cell phones (you know just about all of these AL kids had them -especially from their Mountain Brook neighborhoods) fair and sensible curfews, drinking limits… DUH???
Lets see you and Gay-gun add too something constructive in your replys other than whining.
Again I ask you and Gay-gun –
what would you do diffferently going to Aruba (and even Carlos and Charlies) with a group that YOU WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR?
Born 2 b wild. Well written posts.
It seems that some are understandably very emotional about this case and are coming to the board a bit defensive. I hope they realize that everybody is equally concerned about Natalee’s disappearance and frustrated with the Keystone Cops of Aruba. I see no problem with discussing the situation to make sure that in the future. . . .EVERY precaution is taken to try to avoid this. I have no doubt that everyone on the trip felt safe and felt that everything was done correctly. Nobody is to blame. . .we all can often time just be do darn trusting and it stinks that a tragedy like this ever happens.
looks like Greta may be must see TV tonight something about Mrs. H is insisting Natalee was at Joran’s apartment that night…….
remember he changed the story to the Kalpoes dropped him off at home and then were taking Nat to Holiday Inn, what if the Kalpoes dropped Nat & Joran off at his batchelor pad
which then raises some serious questions about the parents of Joran
but then it doesn’t make sense why the brothers would say they dropped Nat & Joran off at the Marriott
maybe they were at the Marriott and then caught a ride up to his batchelor pad?
ah so confusing
what are u born stupid… 13? constructive? you add a Y to GA and it spells GAY.. ooohhhh funny!
you have about 2 more hours till your bedtime.. think you can come up with something better before then?
you are the typical close minded , thinks they know it all jerks that always post on this site…
nobody cares what you think, you have made your point OVER AND OVER again.. CAN IT ALREADY !!!!!!!!!!!!
everyone that says that the “authorities” are doing everything they can to find her i find hard to take. this island is only 6×19 miles. one would think it would be easy to locate a person (unless in the ocean)
just look at what happened today. in utah they found the boy that was only lost for a few days. utah is much bigger the aruba.
they need to come clean and tell the parents what really happen or get some real help to find nat.
-out
everyone that says that the “authorities” are doing everything they can to find her i find hard to take. this island is only 6×19 miles. one would think it would be easy to locate a person (unless in the ocean)
just look at what happened today. in utah they found the boy that was only lost for a few days. utah is much bigger the aruba.
they need to come clean and tell the parents what really happen or get some real help to find nat.
-out
Just to play devil’s advocate with no disrespect;
how many people were abducted or missing today
in Alabama?
Gretta is definitely the show to watch tonight. Apparently she was out with Beth Holloway Twitty and apparently they met up with Joran’s father and apparently had about a 90 minute talk.
aunt christine the only thing you are “playing” is the moron
people care about life in the US… when something bad happens to good people… good neighbors galvanize to help out
in Aruba nothing happens
if that little boy had gotton lost in Aruba instead of Utah, he’d still be lost
Greta is using the Jery Springer approach or the show Cheaters approach
veritas…..people care about life in theU.S.? HAAAA Not when a stray bomb falls on the Al-Mansur district and kills untold innocent civilians……but that’s ok because it’s war, and they’re Arabs, and these things “just happen”……….
well as time goes on i have changed my prospective..i used to think that tehy should be patient and let the Aruban authorities conduct investigation at their own pace..but too many careless mistakes..impounding cars and belongings days after an arrest…and yet doing full seizure fo goods for two security guards…doesnt add up….and teh failure to hunt for anything…its plain unfair…and whats up with not letting FBI inside teh Van Sloots home..only allowed outside….smells like something…cant believe teh US govt hasnt confrioted them on this more,…why wouldnt tehy want to take advantage of the FBIs obvious expertise….i have to say..im changing..i think US citizens should boycott aruba….
also would love to add that i salute Greta and Beth Holloway..even if its cheaters style! who cares..whatever works!!!its excrucuatingly painful to listen to the dutch authorities come on and use the “this is teh way we do things in Aruba…its dutch law” and using it as an excuse,,,,fine keep your Dutch laws…but dont be upset when people criticize your system given all teh very costly mistakes your law enforcement made….at least get some outside help….Im so tired of hearing the freaky deeky dutch lines! its liek a pre recording tehy all spew out..we get it already! its just not the point!!!better yet why wont these high faluten news networks get the right people asking the right questions….to me teh oreilly guy is the only one with pertinent well appointed questioning
born2bwild: you nor I have any idea of what precautions did or did not take place. The facts have not come out!!!!!!!! All of us are only speculating about what we THINK happened. For all you know she was taken against her will when her “BUDDY” was in the restroom. All of us would now take even more precautions than we would have prior to this event, yes it’s a learning experience. Some people are placing blame, criticizing people associated with this case and simply being offensive. All I am saying is be a little more sensitive. It is unspoken that most of us would do things differently.
Veritas If the utah boy had stepped into a car with tree drunk locals he would be still missing.
locals=strangers
CRS, you there?
The cheif investigaor looks a little sneaky also. She was apparently asked some questions by one reporter as to whey they didn’t do a couple of things in the investigation and she said to him when she was leaving “thanks for the tips”. Sarcastically said.
I viewed some interesting websites in which Joran’s pictures(drunk and passed out, el macho man, 4 guys, one girl etc) are still on it. Apparently, he did not erase everything. There are some interesting coincidences as well. He and a few of his friends seem to think of girlfriends as “pets.” Something sinister went on that night and I think it is only the beginning of this story.
Elaine…..stop reading too much into things…relax!!! If you die mysteriously I’m sure your friends and family can dig up stuff about you that all of a sudden seems “eerie”……Jeeez!
Elain is right – one of the first websights found showed Vandersloot and his “tourist conquests”. She’s not reading into anything. He evidentally made bets on the number of tourists he could..mmm..conquer. It was a game.
I believe something very sinister went on as well. Otherwise there would have been no reason for the boyz to start lying from the beginning.
I would like to again remind everyone that the only ones saying Natalee was kissing or having sex or was falling down drunk are the boys. The same boys that change their story every day.
Those closer to the situation say she was drinking but wasn’t drunk. They say she had no plans of going anywhere other than the hotel. They say she had talked with Vandersloot but none of them saw her kissing him or “dating” him etc.
Keep in mind that all of these slanderous things that are so fun to believe and hear are coming out of the mouths of 3 boys who will do anything to keep themselves out of prison. Natalee isn’t here to tell her side. This isn’t your average teen. She is exceptional in morals, intelligence and class. If she were here, she would tell you her intentions, where she made a mistake and exactly what happened to her and why.
wtg bham!! I agree with you wholeheartedly…..i also have seen jorans websites…and he is a consomate player…hes just lucky that his position in the tiny society of aruba afforded him the time to get his car and house cleaned of evidence and the time to get his story straight! a liberty the two security guards that were initially taken into custody sure werent privy to…now were they? Watching FOX i get so angry at these dutch officials….saying teh same thing…like they are brainwashed and in total denial..resting laurels on the phrase that this is different law..dutch law….they make themselves sound stupid and submissive…..thats not point..point was that they have handled the investigation very badly and tehy should stop it iwth teh dutch pride thing and get teh help form qualified investigators,,,namely teh FBI,..i think it all reeks! and i can only imagine how tired the Holloways must be of this laissez faire attitude there!
Apparently the father said the boy sneaked out of the house and went to Carlos & Charlies without his knowledge. Why aren’t they checking his cell phone calls (maybe they are). Apparently this boy went out with some sort of game plan in mind. His father picked him up earlier that evening and took him home. He went to C&C around 11 pm. He said it was against house rules for him to be out that late due to the fact he had school the next day.
Seems to me Hope is right.
hmmm. 2 of Natalees best friends on Greta saying that they met Joran on the 29th leading into the 30th. Says Natalee did not meet her before that.
Joran told them that Sunday night was the worst night to go out in Aruba. says they found it ironic that he showed up there that night after saying that.
says they do not know anybody that saw Natalee get into the car at C&C, and says they would never let Natalee get into the car with Joran.
That is some big ass jail they got in Aruba!!
Natalie’s MOM should be very involved. There is nothing like a mothers intuition. When it’s your child that is missing would you stop to think about laws whether it be here in AMERICA or ARUBA. Time is important if someone has taken your child the last thing your going to be is civil.
Why she finding her is so hard.
Yes the island is only 6×9 miles but this is 47,000 acres. The park outside of my town in 100 acres. Someone could hide a body and it would take me days me days to find it. Try 500 times that. rough, cactus and rock cliffs and caves, nearly hopeless.
Why she got into the car
Because she wanted to. 3 drunk teens cruising around after the bars closed. She was having fun making her prom date\boyfriend jealous, triggering 2 near brawls already. When the bar closed, taking a ride home from a guy you been flirting and dancing with all day is only going one way. She knew it, her girlfriends knew it, JVS knew it.
Why the roommates didn’t report her missing
To them she wasn’t missing. They knew who she was with and what she was doing. When they talked about thinking she overslept…they knew it wasn’t in her bedroom.
[...] formation? Posted on Tuesday 21 June 2005 Scared Monkeys  »  » Natalee Holloway; June 21, 2005 From Fox News: Holloway family may to sue to demand Aru [...]
You folks who are questioning and arguing about Natalie’s scruples, or the chaperone’s
capability, or the parent’s irresponsibility are really worried about the wrong thing.
The fact is, a girl from America went to visit a country on vacation, and is now missing, and this country (which, not to mention relie’s heavily on American tourism for their income) is not forthcoming with the facts of the case, and is covering up something. Why can’t president Bush or somebody do something. If it was my daughter, I would be having a fit. Why can’t the FBI do anything, or Scotland yard or
somebody. Stop trying to lay blame. Shit happens and it can’t be changed. These people are torturing themselves with “if I had only…………….” and probably don’t need the speculation of jerks that aren’t involved at all. To these people, I say, get a life. “Judge not for ye shall be judged.”
I believe Boycott Aruba is worth considering. But that would bring back the question about why Bush is not involved???
I have been spending time in Aruba for about 30 years.
I visit at least twice a year.
The island is extremely safe and the people are very nice
and will go out of their way to help you.
This event is the first of its kind ever.
AND is probably still one of the safest places in the world.
The attention its getting Is because it is the first of its kind there.
The media is fabulous for this sensationalism.
Being another country than our own, things are done differently there as in
other places around the world.
In our justice system everything must be protrayed as politically
correct. As long as the package is neat and pretty, whats on the inside is
not as important.
We live in a society where everyone wants immediate gratification and
ready to go on a lynching party without looking at all three sides.
(the 2 sides of each party and the third being the truth)
Aruba is a very different entity than our own.
I am sure they are doing everything they can to reach a quick
resolution. We should not judge them for having different rules.
Look how many victims would have been saved here if we could detain
suspects for all those days.
For this comment:
Rabaul Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 9:38 pm
Elaine…..stop reading too much into things…relax!!! If you die mysteriously I’m sure your friends and family can dig up stuff about you that all of a sudden seems “eerie”……Jeeez!
I am not reading anything into it. I don’t think what happened to Natalee is so mysterious. It bothers me greatly that Joran is pictured with a collar and leash around one of his buddies and a bag over his head. This is disturbing. Like he is mocking Abu Garib. What happened to Natalee is sinister and the truth will come out. Natalee just needs to be found. It will shock the world. There is too much of something there that they are not explaining.
Vanuatu Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 8:15 pm
veritas…..people care about life in theU.S.? HAAAA Not when a stray bomb falls on the Al-Mansur district and kills untold innocent civilians……but that’s ok because it’s war, and they’re Arabs, and these things “just happen”……….
short term pain over long term gain
if your European friends hadn’t imperialistically and systematically repressed and held down the arab peoples for the last 80-100 years … then sold the palastinean state down river for the name of expediency… the US wouldn’t have to come in and fix this mess
alas stupid people such as yourself will never understand this as the avoidable death of a few innocents is never worth the sacrafice for people like you… especially if the good being purchased is freedom
Biggy Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 8:57 pm
Veritas If the utah boy had stepped into a car with tree drunk locals he would be still missing.
we’d have recovered the body by now and we’d have 3 locals in jail with rock-solid cases and hanging juries awaiting… they’d all 3 be on suicide watch and faith would be restored that the area was safe
not so in Aruba… where they’d do nothing and hide behind an justice system that relies on a 19th century elitist driven model… WTF… the prosecutor who drives the investigation meets once perhaps twice per day if need be with the local police????
here in the US these people practically live together and the ones driving the investigation are the police… with the prosecutors advising where their specialty is called for
prosecutors are nimwits when it comes to investigation….and police are nimwits when it comes to courtroom specialty… the Dutch system infers special powers from the overeducation of law… gimme a 20 year cop over a 5 year prosecutor any day
Aunt Christine:
While you are right in many ways, impatience is a virtue when one of our children is missing. A wait-and-see approach yields poor results. Given the lack of evidence and Natalee stilll missing, Aruba deserves the scrutiny it is receiving. Positive changes will hopefully result.
Still hoping for the best, but learning that tourists boarded the docked party boat after first being taken to it in a dinghy makes me think the statements supposedly coming from the Kalpoe brothers…”Natalee refused to get out of the car,” and “she wanted to see the sharks” were significant.
ms. linda “Still hoping for the best, but learning that tourists boarded the docked party boat after first being taken to it in a dinghy makes me think the statements supposedly coming from the Kalpoe brothers…”Natalee refused to get out of the car,” and “she wanted to see the sharks” were significant.”
what you said make no sense. what is your point?
Is the searches over? does that mean they are ready to present the case?
D. Kalpoe beginning to look more and more suspicious.
Sicko, the statements, ‘Natalee refused to get out of the car,” “she wanted to see the sharks,” and “I left her on the beach and she wasn’t there when I came back” would fit the scenario of the boys harming her and then calling their friend who had access to the dinghy to take her out to sea and feed her to the sharks.
Now the Dutch authorities are saying that “Van Der Sloot is changing his story. That he keeps changing it. His father also told Beth Holloway he had no idea that Joran had snuck out. Joran’s brother also seems a little wild and one of their friends, Brenton Croes brandishes a knife on a website he is on. I think this kids are a little less nice than people want to accept. What happened to Natalee was very intentional and malicious. The story needs to come out soon.
I think this is probably what happened:
After reading:
“He says, ‘Mom, I dropped the girl at the beach. I walked with her. I left her there because she wanted to stay there. I left and I don’t know what happened.’”
Asked if Joran had changed his initial story, she replied, “Joran changed his story only one time. I think he was scared because he sneaked out of the house that evening. I think he was scared and wanted to cover other people, too.”
How many people disappear every year in the States, or in Alabama without a trace?
What was the “Honor student” doing drunk at the beach at 2.00am?
and also….
Holloway’s mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, said she was pleased with the development.
”We are very pleased that the investigation is progressing,” she said. ”We feel like this will lead to more information to give us the answers we need for finding Natalee.’
I am sorry for her, cause I think the only thing they are going to find is a decomposed corpse.
I don’t know why, and maybe it’s just irrational but I do not like the lady at all, she seems to me that she is just a “bitch”, evidently she is so lucky that she does not have to work and may spend all that time giving away “prayers materials” and talking to the media, I hope she will get sued in the States for defamation against Joran.
All this stuff is so perfect for the “patriotical/hysterical” Fox news to report, so that not much attention is going to be paid to all the poor AMERICANS that are dying every day in Iraq, or all the children that are dying in Sudan, that is REALLY sad and not this CRAPPY SOAP OPERA!!
Silly posts on here proves my case that too many southerners have made too much money for their level of intelligence. This case will take time especially without a body. Sadly we may never know the real story but bitching and moaning and speculating that Aruba is not intested in solving this case is childlike and breeds stupidity on a certain Hannitzed level…….