RSSTourist Dies in Aruba … Drowns at Conchi … Aruba, “It has a beautiful view, but a visit is not without danger” … Natalee Holloway would attest the Same
“It is tragic, but the location attracts people. It has a beautiful view, but a visit is not without danger.
The above comment might just become Aruba’s new tourism slogan. It pretty much gets to the point and is truthful. Its hard to argue with the truth. A 30 year old Bulgarian tourist died in Aruba due to drowning at Conchi, on the northern coast of Aruba.
So once again an individual drowns in the waters of Aruba; however, manages to be found as the waves push the drowning victim to shore. However, for some reason when it comes to the case of missing Natalee Holloway individuals have speculated that she drown and the 3 former suspects, Joran Van der Sloot, Depak and Satish Kalpoe had no involvement. Why is it when Natalee Holloway drown her body was never recovered, yet other drowning victims were?
Tourist drowns at Conchi – (Amigoe, 1/10/08)
A Bulgarian tourist has drowned yesterday after having fallen into the rough sea near the bathing-place Conchi, a popular tourist attraction at the northern coast of the island.
ORANJESTAD – A tourist drowned yesterday around 11:00, when he fell in the rough seas right outside the bathing-place at Conchi in the Arikok national park. The Natural Pool, as referred to by the tourists, is a popular attraction and lies at the northern coast of the island. The 30-year old Bulgarian tourist was swimming with friends in the natural pool. For still unknown reasons, the man fell from the rocks at Conchi in the sea that was rougher than usual due to the hard winds of the last days.
Two rescue teams tried to reach the area where the man has fallen in the water. By means of ropes tied to a jeep, one of the teams succeeded, but the man had already died. When salvaging the body, one of the rescue workers got lightly injured, when a big wave threw him against a rock.
The foundation that manages the national park including Conchi knows about the danger of the rough see near the natural pool. We have placed a considerable amount of signs warning the vacationers for the danger, says Ambrosio Curiel of the National Park Arikok Foundation. After yesterday’s incident, the foundation is considering placing park rangers again at the location to keep an eye on the people.
Curiel regrets the accident with the Bulgarian tourist. “It is tragic, but the location attracts people. It has a beautiful view, but a visit is not without danger. Waves more than three meters high have been seen at that location.”
Posted January 10, 2008 by Scared Monkeys Aruba, Deceased, Missing Persons, Natalee Holloway, Travel | 128 comments |
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128 Responses to “Tourist Dies in Aruba … Drowns at Conchi … Aruba, “It has a beautiful view, but a visit is not without danger” … Natalee Holloway would attest the Same”
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The whole world knows that when it came to Natalee Holloway everything to do with her case was an exception, evidence, witnesses, LE, statements and the suspects and their parents.
It certainly is odd that this victim washed on shore and Natalee didn’t. But then again, as Ms. Shtripper said, we just don’t understand the Aruban legal system. Understatement of the century, even NL doesn’t understand Aruba’s legal syste. BTW, is there an Aruban legal system?
what a mistaka to maka
If J2K dumped her body 10+ miles out to sea, as one ex-Deepak drug buddy says, the span of ocean to search is daunting, to say the least.
Can they scare up this guy to testify (Deepak’s drug buddy) or will it not count because they were under the influence of drugs when he spoke about what they did with Natalee’s body?
A beautiful innocent life destroyed at the hands of 4 LOSERS (3+1 daddy judge wanna be). We will never let them forget.
I think Hodges is correct when he talks of them being trapped in their own minds and cannot escape their crime. I also believe they self-loath and punish themselves with drugs wishing secretly to be dead themselves.
Then again, maybe not…. Joran is pretty proud of himself most days. Fat, ugly parents holding his up as the son everyone should be proud of.
Their lives are really sad.
Poor soul….for UNKNOWN reasons the man fell from the rocks….Aruba never has an true answer for anything. Maybe he was pushed but of course, they would never tell us that. Seems fitting for Aruba they will come back and say he committed suicide.
Natalee disappears but they don’t know how, dead bodies show up on the beach and they don’t know how, people are being slaughtered and they don’t know how….
Even when things are exposed they don’t do anything. Traffic accidents, injuries and deaths occur all the time. Drugging of tourist, all the time. It’s become a living nightmare!
Opray Winfrey’s show is the top rated show in the country with 21 MILLION viewers each day. Beth Holloway Twitty and Matt Twitty (Natalee Holloway’s brother) will be featured on Wednesday, January 16. This show will be watched by millions of people, women especially. Mark your calendars – this is a show not to be missed and a show that further indicates the interest the American public still has in the Natalee Holloway case and the mistreatment of Natalee’s parents, as well as, the safety in Aruba and the ineffectiveness of the police there to protect the American tourist who visits there. Go to http://www2.Oprah.com and watch the advertisement for this show.
Are we sure Joran hasn’t been around, he drowned a boy, he killed his dog and he pushed someone off the bridge. I wonder how the neighbors manage to live next door to the Sloot’s.
I’m sure it would be quite informative to read a history of Joran’s complete background.
Remember Beth saying she heard something that sounded like a monkey screech on her phone. Sloot’s neighbors used to have a monkey but Greta said in her last visit to Aruba the monkey’s cage was empty. I wonder if Joran has something to do with that! Meaning……………..!
#1 Miss-Underestimated: there is a strong current in the Caribbean Sea heading west. The north coast of Aruba (like Bonaire and Curacao) is very rough with a strong current and waves as high as 10 feet. The south / southwest side of these island on the other hand are *very* calm (palm beach / eagle beach). If you would fall into the sea near the natural pool, you’ll be smashed against the rocks. Accidents like this happen from time to time even with warning signals. Sometimes people want to risk their life for making close-up pictures of the waves …
Satish pushed him.
#5…mommytraveler…thank you dear supporter, that’s is definitely a program that I will not miss. So many viewers, whow, 21 million. She’s a very popular lady and this will certainly be a means of getting the word out there. Beth helped the two black security guards and now maybe Oprah will help us! I think she is a fantastic women and has worked very hard for her success. She has helped so, so many people and so, so many causes. Someone really needs to help the independent people of Aruba. Those that are frightened and scared. And I can certainly can see why! Natalee’s family is very loving and caring and all they want is their daughter. What they been thru is complete hell!
After what I have seen them do to people, especially Pitbull, my God in heaven!
Have we ever gotten any answers to the death of Pitbull, NO, they said he had cocaine in his body. CASE CLOSED….the overkill was a message to someone or someone’s…why don’t they investigate on what happens on the hill…you know the place where no one if allowed to go!
If the area is that dangerous then they need to close it off…you can still take pictures, zoom in lenses and stay alive..but of course, safety is no a concern!
#11..sorry, meant to say safety is Not a concern!
I certainly hope that Aruba is planning on making a contribution to TES…Natalee disappeared on your island…too say the least!
Netherlands you also need to donate to TES…Aruba is your island.
the monkey was drugged, raped, then murdered by guess who ? i wonder where the four suspects disposed of the body of the monkey ?
15: Superdave:
Would your reference be directed towards Anita?
DEEPAK’S GREATEST HITS – The Emails.
email: to friend
snips>
because when this all is over ***they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.***
they don’t understand the pressure we are having also, ***if this girl turns up dead we have a problem***
***we were the last seen with her.***
____
Vandersnot was supposed to be the last. Why ya
sweatin’ that, Dirtpock? 3 of you WERE LAST
to be seen with her. I know you meant that one,
buddy!
_____
My father, highblood pressure = RED HANDS?
I lost a lot of friends who think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent also ***we promise****
**** i ******* would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also ,
*** i would take a ********bullet***********
****to save****** her and ******bring her back**** to her family if i *****had***** to so would my friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i’m a very happy and social person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them
_____
TAKE A BULLET
Like the BULLET I firmly believe u guys finished her off with, D?
U go home and get gun, Joran
says he’ll shoot your a$$ dead, bro.
shot?
Reason 1. To make sure she was dead before burial.
Reason 2. To cover over the head injury
that I believe she died from,
fighting to get away from those
toxic pieces of human garbage.
_______
Nat’s RED hair. Father’s RED hands.
(symbolic mental images)
Nat’s blood is on their hands.
______
So -name deleted- i will say goodbye now *****hope you believe me***** (’cuz I am LYING)
and i pray to god that they ***find natalee*** soon and find her well so that this nightmare ends for ***all of us*** and they we prove we had nothing to do with this,
>
FLASHBACK REPLAY:
***if this girl turns up dead we have a problem***
***we were the last seen with her.***
i hope you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon and may god bless………
bye bye
Deepak.
_______________
also: I love how Deepak knows everything that
Nat and Joran did & said at the casino.
Like he was there. He was NOT. He was
at work. Is he live, or is he Memorex?
-j4n
http://tinyurl.com/2bm6bf
#11 Brie: And there is also a large fence at Grand Canyon, right (yes I know, there ARE a few fences there) ? Did you know that sometimes people fall from the edge there too? One thing we (hopefully) can expect is that people use their common sense.
Oprah’s show:
21 MILLION VIEWERS
21 MILLION VIEWERS
21 MILLION VIEWERS
21 MILLION VIEWERS
Hear that all you pathetic Beth-haters and Joran lovers?
So much for interest in Natalee’s case fading.
Guess again.
Well, if there is a huge fence then people don’t fall…Duh!
#6
BRIE
WHERE DID THE INFO COME FROM ABOUT URINE DROWNING A BOY AND KILLING THE FAMILY PET? JUST CURIOUS. HE REALLY HAS MAJOR MENTAL PROBLEMS(TO SAY THE LEAST).I HAVE A 21 YEAR OLD SON, AND IF HE HAD DROWNED A PERSON AND KILLED A DOG, I THINK I WOULD HAVE HIM IN AN INSTITUTION.YOU KNOW ANITA KNOWS WHAT URINE AND THE OTHERS DID TO NATALEE AND WITH ALL THE DEATH THREATS HE’S BEEN RECEIVING YOU’D THINK SHE WOULD WANT TO PROTECT HER LITTLE SPORTER AND NOT LET HIM OUT OF HER SIGHT. BUT WHO KNOWS, MAYBE HER BRAIN HAS TOO MUCH FAT AROUND IT FOR HER TO THINK STRAIGHT.
TO HELL WITH THEM ALL.
BOYCOTT ARUBA, FOREVER IMO!!!
I still find the dried blood on his feet was a bit strange. Especially on the left foot on the heel.
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feetik0.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5821/deathrc7.jpg
For a number of years this has been pushed by the tour operators (horseback riding and four wheelers) as a “tourist attraction” and it is very dangerous there and also what is involved in getting there. If something happens – “Oh well – stupid tourist.”
Boycott Aruba. The pimps have their deadly games and the perverted adults do too! The adults will always protect Joran to keep their secret. Minister of Justice living with young paid prostitutes, this is what you are dealing with in Aruba.
#21..that is old information but I try to find the links….Yes Joran is a disaster, and has been for along time…uncaring parents allowed him to do many things that most of us would never of tolerated. Never got him the help he needed. Now they act like they’re all about Joran but the truth is they couldn’t of cared less. He’s sick…and as Stratten said you can go to a mental institution or prison!! Which neither has happened!!!
The problem now is the kid is really sick and no one does anything about it…why doesn’t the Netherlands have him evaluated…do they want more crime..he doesn’t change nor does he get any better…a criminal allowed to go free!!!!!
Naturally it was an accident. body wouldn’t have washed up otherwise. Ever notice tourists body’s dont show up if it isn’t an accident or suicide?
Where or where did you put Natalee Holloway’s body???? Natalee got drunk, fell in the water and just washed away…nice fairy tale Aruba..
Reach, throw, row, go with equipment, and go.
I’m glad I wasn’t there. I would have gone, hopeful with some equipment; but three times before I have gone without. It’s a scary thing, but you have got to get to them quick. If they go under more than once or inhale water, you may be too late. The ocean will kill you. You have got to respect it.
Obviously, I don’t think Natalee drowned.
Jerry
#22 Observer,
Looks almost like a burn. Probable, cut on corral or rocks. One toe looks like it has almost been cut off. My son had similar cuts on his feet, when he turned a canoe over in the Bahamas, and then stood on corral to up right it.
It’s sad, looking at lifeless feet. The color of life is gone. 30 years of life, that’s not long. Natalee had less. Very sad. Some mother, some father, some wife or girlfriend, sister or brother must be heartbroken.
I don’t even know this young man, and his death really disturbs me. Another life gone. A life this world really needed, I sure. Tragic, just tragic. My prayers go out to all who know him.
Jerry
#30
Coral is nasty stuff and the cuts are horrendous. It probably was a simple accident and drowning. I posted the pic just because I don’t trust anything Aruba says and the way it appears to have dried on his feet. I was hoping someone with a forensic/medical background would see it just in case.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I have seen too many suspicious deaths in Aruba ruled as suicides with one hand in the pocket after they were hung. Or locked in a storage bin or cut into pieces,head bashed in and body burned.
…and now a brief word from our sponsor!!!
http://tinyurl.com/278ud7
-j4n
Anything for tourism…no safety involved!!!! Scums!
…and now a brief word from our sponsor!!!
http://tinyurl.com/278ud7
-j4n
————————————
Is Joran into sadism and masochism.? Choking men and women when he has sex with them? What did he do with the unconscious ones that were drugged? We saw with the undercover reporter in Arnhem he asked if he could bite her..This is one sick SOB!!
We know he killed his own dog,drugged and raped at least 3 others before Natalee arrived. If the Aruban Authorities didn’t cover up what he did to others before Natalee dissapeared none of us would be here right now and Natalee would be in college. He needs a lot more than a psychiatrist as it’s obvious it didn’t work!!
From Joran’s Book
Van der Straaten arrives and tells Joran that he “has known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland, that you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed to a mental institution. You only have to tell the truth.”
Don’t forget, Joran is one huge, hulking, ugly SOB. (Literally, an SOB.)
Natalee was beautiful, and petite. The size difference may well have helped unleash his darkest urges … sounds typical of a psychopathic bully, doesn’t it?
(Full disclosure: I’m a 5’2″ man, so obviously I have a bias.)
Richard,
At first on the Scared Monkeys site, there was a lady poster who kept saying how good looking Joran was. I remember thinking; I must be looking at the wrong mug shots, because he looked like the south end of a northbound bloodhound. I later came to realize that the lady poster had some serious mental issues, and neurons in her brain lacked proper neuro-transmitters for complete connection and proper function.
Jerry
Richard,
Joran is so ugly, and hideous looking, that he could play young (and very Ugly) Feinstein with no costumes or make up. What a freak of nature!
I’ve known ugly parents that produced beautiful children, but Anita and Paulus outdid themselves. Not knowing Joran, one would think that quite possible they are the most ugly two humans on earth. Next to their offspring Joran, they would only take second and third place.
Jerry
Here’s an interesting story that I found tonight … a former government official on American Samoa, in combination with some Chinese, imported women to the island with false job promises, only to detain them and force them into prostitution.
Aren’t we glad that something like this couldn’t happen in the Caribbean … let’s say, a drug/rape victim, while helpless, was forced off an island and taken into captivity elsewhere.
Yes, I’d say we should thank our stars that such a thing cannot happen to an American.
http://www.centredaily.com/business/story/321803.html
Wednesday, Jan. 09, 2008
Former American Samoan Government Official Sentenced for Obstruction of Federal Sex Trafficking Investigation
U.S. Department of Justice
WASHINGTON, Jan. 9 — Iona Uiagalelei, former Assistant Chief of the Department of Property Management for the American Samoan government, was sentenced Monday, Jan. 7, 2008, in federal court in Hawaii for obstructing a federal sex trafficking investigation. In August 2007, Uiagalelei pleaded guilty to witness tampering for instructing two Chinese women to provide false and misleading information to a federal grand jury, the federal prosecutor, and Federal Bureau of Investigation agents.
Uiagalelei was a business partner with Chinese national Fu Sheng Kuo, who, along with several co-defendants, operated a scheme to recruit and import Chinese women and hold them in prostitution in nightclubs and brothels in American Samoa. Upon arrival, the victims, who were unpaid, were denied access to their passports and return airline tickets, and the opportunity to leave until they had paid off increasing debts. Uiagalelei sponsored numerous Chinese nationals to enter and reside in American Samoa who then engaged in Kuo’s prostitution business.
Uiagalelei was sentenced to 13 months imprisonment and three years of supervised leave. Uiagalelei reports to federal prison Monday, Jan. 14, 2008. Four other defendants in this case have pleaded guilty and have been sentenced. On Friday, Jan. 4, 2008 Fu Sheng Kuo was sentenced to 63 months imprisonment, and Shenji Wang was sentenced to 62 months imprisonment, both on human trafficking charges. In April 2007, two co-defendants, Kueiling Chen and Lili Zhang, both Chinese nationals, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to transport women in foreign commerce for purposes of prostitution, based on their roles in the same scheme. In September 2007, Zhang was sentenced to 11 months imprisonment and three years of supervised release, and Chen to six months imprisonment and three years of supervised release.
Human trafficking prosecutions are a top priority of the Department of Justice. In the last seven fiscal years, the Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the U.S. Attorneys’ Offices, has increased by nearly seven-fold the number of human trafficking cases filed in court as compared to the previous seven fiscal years. In FY 2007, the Department obtained a record number of convictions in human trafficking prosecutions.
This case was investigated by FBI Special Agent Mark Granger of the American Samoa office of the Honolulu Division of the FBI and was prosecuted by Susan French of the Civil Rights Division’s Human Trafficking Prosecution Unit.
SOURCE U.S. Department of Justice
The article says that the Bulgarian guy was swimming with friends … and also that he fell from rocks. So where were the friends?
If I didn’t know better, I’d say that somebody on Aruba might be distorting the truth a bit.
observer 34:
Isn’t that where Robert Wayne Benson worked in Cura Cabai? About 1/2 mile from Lorenzo’s?
I don’t believe anything they say! I’m sure the truth has been distorted, as usual!
1006
Not sure about Robert Benson as I never looked into him. I’M not even sure if he was locked in from the inside or outside in the container or where in Aruba it was. When I researched a dutch blog recently they were mentioning two dutch brothers being involved and a colombian on June 18th 2005. What happened to Rene Van Heningen on that day is also very suspicious.
His death is probably every bit as suspicious as the other siucides. I was reading up on the reporter the other day and everyone was absolutely stunned she killed herself. Her daughter had no idea and I would guess no one else did either. I bet the cameraman lived in a lot of fear before he was hung a few weeks later with one hand in his pocket for all of Aruba to see in the papers. Her death to me looked violent as she was covered in bedsheets and hung over a wall.She did two reports before her death Prostitution and Drag Racing. I wonder if what her and the camera man got themselves into? Last we heard from Jossy he was mentioning that a Aruban Minister was involved in Prostitution in Venezuela. We know in 2005 Rudy Croes was caught red handed pimping out two girls from the D.R. They said they were sexually abused,being forced into prostitution and held against there will. Rudy says it was to paint and work in San Nicolas..lol
The first reports on Pitbull were far different the last. I would suspect the same for all these suspicious suicides and dissapearances. Why would you bash someone’s head in,cut off body parts and burn the body if he killed himself with a OD?
#36….I have a blood hound and yes the southside is something else….LOL! Good Lord!!!
Does anyone know if they ever found the reporter Sergio Gomez? He was investigating the death of Rene when he disappeared.
If you don’t have this link, it is well worth the time and definitely a bookmark site.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0
Jerry
richard..the friends were smart enough not to climb those rocks?
My understanding is that it takes some time to drown. BTW, it seems that we still haven’t heard anything more about the American woman, 23, who went missing in Aruba and was found drunk (or “drunk”) in her PARENTS’ bedroom.
Aruba seems to make sure there is never follow-up on anything … unless going to Carlos ‘n’ Charlies and having a few beers is follow-up.
it can take seconds for a person to go completely underwater. If the ocean is dark, that person may not be visible; in this instance, it takes seconds to lose someone as they are drowning underwater.
This is a good explanation for why we should all wear life jackets while boating, especially children. It can happen in the blink of an eye.
Confucius say:
Anita Vandersloot
when fly upside down…
have big a$$ crack up.
http://tinyurl.com/yvudnj
-j4n
#48…Carpe
Confucius say:
When bloodhound
flies upside down….
have really big crack up! LOL!
DEEPAK’S EMAILS CONT’D
Letter 2:
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:26:12 +0000
I would be willing to try making an Id by the police for the 2 suspects i only saw one of them in the news.My parents are doing better now , my friends parents are doing well as well. Although we are almost of the hook we still don’t walk much on the streets a lot of fingers are being pointed etc.
Jumpin jehoserfats this kid is A COMPLETE IDIOT.
> I would be willing to try making an Id by the police for the 2 suspects
> i only saw one of them.
….
TIP #3240 FOR Deepak;
Close that big a$$ open mouth of yours when getting your picture taken.
It makes ya look like Corky Thatcher from the tv show LIFE GOES ON.
We know you’re IQ challenged… but there are some simple steps you can take to TRY AND HIDE IT FROM PEOPLE!
*****
-j4n
I read once where Paulus said “Joran’s life was worth saving”…but Natalee’s wasn’t…maybe you could of saved her and you didn’t because of Joran’s malicious deeds! You have got to know how sick this monster is, it’s obvious that human life is of no value to you. Those of you that have participated in this crime I hope hell prevails on you!
I also think that Aruba should politely contribute to the search for Natalee…a donation to the TES group…..and also reimburse with additional funs to Beth and Dave for their travel to Aruba because of false information. What more are you going to put this family thru? Hang your heads, lower, lower and lower , now bang them on the floor!
For someone who followed the case as much as SM, they should know that if a person drowns on the North shore, he/she is washed a shore. The highest waves run on the north shore plus onshore winds. If someone drowns on the South Shore, the current and offshore winds can drive someone away from land.
So these rhetorical questions about why NH isn’t found is a bit childish… SM knows that most speculation is that she disappears on the South side… Only very stupid people would kill and dump someone on the North shore….
ING,
This is from the 48 hours show on CBS, that the Chief of Police(haha) Gerold Dompig was on..
One of the most persistent theories clouding the case is the notion that her body was dumped out at sea.
But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the island’s search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.
Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.
#53
Only very stupid people would kill and dump someone on the North shore….
…
yes, and they are 4 lying stupid fothermuckers… that’s why they
are in the position they are today.
Joran should be issued a special helmet
with a chin strap… so he doesn’t hurt
himself playing with the other children.
-j4n
@Maggie,
I wasn’t aware of that test or its results.
However, I’m a (wind)surfer. (the kind that gets wet). I’m not an oceanographer, so my statements are just my experience.
Having said that, I would say that such an experiment would have only been valid with The same “lunar status” (tide movement), wind conditions, wave conditions (swell directions, periods), current conditions and performed at night. Also the “body” should have been tested with different weights. Plus, if the cause of death is drowning (be it accidental or on purpose) the body would sink/hover untill decomposing gasses would survice it. And that situation would also need to be tested in an experiment. These are a lot of parameters, especially to get right on a TV show.
First hand experience of mine is of a snorkeler who went out snorkeling but never returned. (It got dark fast, so SAR could only begin the next morning. His body was never recovered. (This was on Curacao) We think he had a stroke and the current took him.. Count out sharks, there has never been a recorded attack on this island. I personally surfed between a few… I’m still here
Similar accidents are recorded (swimmer/snorkeler having a stroke), where the body did wash up on shore… That’s why I think
conditions are extremely important in making such an assumption.
Now I realise that conditions on Curacao are different then on Aruba, but every surfer or fisherman knows how the ocean is different from day to day, sometimes from hour to hour.. So unless he’d done that test consistantly for a long period testing for conditions as they where on the night of NH disapearance, I would still be skeptical of the result.
This wouldn’t be to difficult for most SM readers, who are naturally skeptical of any statement coming from the Dutch Kingdom…(including mine
Just switched channels on my tv and guess what….
JvdS, PvdS, Mamma-vdS and Peter R. de Vries around the table in a TV-show: ‘Pauw en Witteman’ (the two hosts).
First time – if I’m correct that PrdV has the oppurtunity to talk with the others and ask questions.
I missed the main part of the show but I’ll see if I can see the re-airing of it this night… And record it and maybe translate some of it.
Natalee didn’t drown.
Natalee didn’t willing stay on a dark secluded beach
in the middle of the night.
Joran and the Kalpoes took her away in Deepak’s car and she never returned.
There were no calls for help and her body was hidden.
(suggests strongly that a crime was committed.)
Also, Joran and the Kalpoes fabricated stories and tried to blame each other.
NO INNOCENT ACCIDENT
This post is addressed primarily to Mr. Rammstein or to EURobert, though of course anyone can read.
On one of the threads here, reference was made to a Dutch legislator who made disparaging remarks about Aruba, and who in return got the cold shoulder from that crime-ridden government.
It strikes me that the Dutch are probably sick of Aruba, and with good reason. Look at what has happened in the biggest bout of attention that sick little island has ever gotten.
Why is it, then, that (as far as I can see) few Dutch are willing to come forward and demand justice? I’m thinking that perhaps those of us who are demanding justice for Natalee and her family, and who are urging people to avoid the cesspool of Aruba, might be able to work together with the “decent” Dutch.
I know that EURobert has said that he does not support a boycott of Aruba. That’s his privilege.
But I would appreciate it if the mailing address of that legislator could be provided. (I’ll try to find his name later on! It’s here somewhere.)
My basic idea is that Americans and Dutch can work together to keep the onus on Aruba.
EURobert, you made a post two above this one, so it’s clear that you’re still with us.
These links were posted on a previous thread.
Could I trouble you to explain them in English (a summary would work) and to provide the name and mailing address of the legislator in question?
Thanks very much!
Dutch parmentairier (member of parlement, party PVV) was denied acces to Aruba congress.
The Antilles didn’t really apreciate that he called them a corrupt thievesnest
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article492460.ece/Antilliaanse_Staten_weren_PVVer_Brinkman
A poll in Holland (requested by the PVV) showed that ½ the population rather sees the Antilles on their own then under the wings of Holland.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article492441.ece/Helft_Nederlanders_wil_af_van_Antillen
Hi Richard,
That Member of Parliament is Hero Brinkman; here is his contact-page at the PVV (Partij voor de Vrijheid – Party for Freedom)
BTW: in a recent poll in the NL more than 50% of the Dutch said they want to break all ties with the Antilles!!!
Sorry, forgot the page:
http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114
You have got to remember that we are not dealing with the Einstein’s of Aruba…the North shore for them would of been the easiest. Koen’s boat or Steve Croes and the party boat. Weighting down a crab cage would not of been difficult, certainly enough rocks available. If Natalee died I think they would of disposed of her fairly quickly and took the easiest route. Their are those that have left the island without too much hesitation…Koen, Sander and Guildo…and then we have the remaining Freddy, the porno freak….he stayed because he probably has a deal going on with Posner. THE DISGUSTING PIMP CLUB!!!!!
Thanks much, EU Robert. I’ll write to him soon.
Meanwhile, on another topic … here’s an interesting article from India. In desperation at their inability to stop human trafficking, India police are turning to prostitutes for information.
Some 20,000 women a year are trafficked in India, the article says.
But as we know, it can’t happen in Aruba.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080111/lf_nm_life/india_prostitutes_dc_1
India turns to prostitutes to help beat trafficking By Bappa Majumdar
Fri Jan 11, 2:04 AM ET
KOLKATA, India (Reuters) – Authorities in eastern India have teamed up with prostitutes as the officials accelerate a drive against the trafficking of girls into the trade.
It is a rare display of official approval for the efforts of prostitutes in West Bengal’s Sonagachhi area, one of Asia’s largest red-light districts.
In the past year alone a prostitutes’ organization has rescued more than 550 women and girls from brothels and from traffickers, the state’s social welfare department officials said.
“The state government had no choice but to join hands with the sex workers as they seem to be doing a better job in tackling trafficking,” said Samarajit Jana, an official from India’s AIDS control program, which helps run the project.
Younger girls are usually helped to get back to their home village. Adults are usually given housing and job training.
“I was kidnapped and forced to entertain old men, but now all that is past as I am trying to make a new beginning in life,” said Anjali, a 16-year-old girl who was rescued last month by prostitutes from one of the brothels crammed into Sonagacchi’s crowded maze of alleyways.
Anjali is among hundreds of poor girls shifted to one of six new government-sponsored rescue centers across the state. They learn embroidery and sewing among other crafts.
This has been possible after the government formed an alliance last month with the Durbar Mahila Samanwaya (DMSC), an organization founded in 1995 that now represents 65,000 sex workers in West Bengal.
DMSC focuses its rescue efforts on minors entering the trade and those who were deceived into joining it.
“We have realized that we are the most effective weapon against this social evil that forces minor girls into sex trade,” said Bharati Dey, a former prostitute, who leads the campaign.
At least 20,000 women and girls are kidnapped and forced into prostitution in India every year, the government said.
Many pass through West Bengal on their way to Mumbai, Delhi and other cities in India, as well as the United Arab Emirates, police said.
Most of these girls are from India’s northeast and neighboring Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh, they said.
In India, trafficking and profiting by selling a person for sex is illegal, but paying for sex with an adult prostitute is not.
India’s Ministry of Women and Child Development wants to change the laws to allow police take stern action against clients, but critics have stalled the plan.
Prostitutes and groups working with them fear such a move would force the trade deeper into the shadows.
The DMSC now plans to spread its campaign across the state and elsewhere in India.
Richard,
That article is about an incident last week on the Antilles: this Hero Brinkman was refused entrance into the Antillian parliament and planned talks about some issues in the Dutch-Antillian relations were called of. Brinkman last year called the Antilles a corrupt-gangs-nest and now the Antillian parliamentarians first demanded he’ld apologize. But he refused that.
ING,, well you would think if this was a expert search and rescue team,, they did their research before doing their tests and drawing conclusions..
btw ING.. the test was done in the waters on the side of the fisherman’s huts to show whatever went out in the water on that beach would wash back up..aka Joran’s and Natalee’s shoes that were supposedly left there too.. so all those people on the beach Joran talked about that night, not one has came forward to see him or Natalee, no shoes found, no Natalee found, 3 fisherman on the beach by where he claimed they were saw noone matching their description that night aka no proof they were ever on the beach. Blows the theory too that Natalee just walked out in the water drunk and drowned.. Joran had her sober knowing what she was doing..according to him. I agree with the FBI,, he’s a true sociopath, if you watch his parents, it’s easy to see where his behaviour comes from,, Lie, Deny, don’t tell, claim amnesia, lie some more, They constantly say they want the truth to come out and then lie and deny some more. There is nothing honorable about them.
I have got to agree Richard, I think the American’s and the Dutch can work together. Aruba has been nothing but trouble for them, led by the thugs. Rudy wants the island to become independent but not without financial help. Why would they want to do that? Control for his evil destination mind! T think the Dutch need to put and end to all of this. Isn’t it about time to hear from the Queen, does she not have a voice or any power? Speak up!!! Give Hans a helping hand.
Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:58 pm
De Vries: You are a self admitted liar.
Joran and Anita: Joran was never in therapy for lying.
Interviewer: But you said that even in your book!
Paulus: All we wanted to do is help and not obstruct the investigation.
De Vries: Is that is why you advised Joran to not talk? How does that help the investigation?
Joran: I kept my mouth shut because I do not trust the Aruban jurdical system.
Paulus: I adviced him to keep his mouth closed.
De Vries: How can you explain that being a judge and if you just said all you ever wanted was to help the ongoing investigation, how does it help if your son does not talk, does not give any explanation?
Paulus: Everything was already answered.
De Vries: Is that so? I wonder!
Anita: Every time Joran pointed out a centimeter further on the beach they said that was yet another version of the story.
De Vries: A centimer? Joran lied kilometers! In my opnion ppl decide to keep their mouths shut when they are afraid they do not recall their lies.
De Vries: Why did you lie Joran?
Joran: I was afraid and the family was at my house.
De Vries: If you are afraid the more reason to tell the truth, why not the girl wanted to stay on the beach herself right? You had to go, why lie, why these long made up stories all 3 of you told, if nothing happened nothing to lie about?
Anita: These boys were asked incredible questions, the interrogators had their analyses ready before interrogation.
De Vries: Yes, what do you think, he is last seen with the girl and tells all these lies, of course they had a scenario ready!
And so on
EURobert–Thank you very much for all
your help on this blog. VERY much appreciated.
Yes, please tell us more about the show with Peter De Vries and 3VDS.
I am still wondering why Joran and Deepak were in the police station that morning when Natalee went missing. Also why was Deepak’s car at the police station when Beth arrived. Never have gotten an answer. I know we don’t believe that Natalee was on the beach, but just for speculation…what if she was and found by the Black Team or the Visibility Team, they notified the police and then they disposed of Natalee. Tourist protection…..we cannot let anyone find out what happened! Not knowing at that time, Beth, Dave, Jug and friends would arrive looking for Natalee. They just wanted to say Natalee disappeared and no further questions. Dompig could of made this decision…friend of Paulus and two related cousins…I am not going to solve this just sweep it under the rug..and forget it! Not knowing the investigation was going to be pursued. So then we lie and make things that never happened….
Give me a break!
How sick can the Van der sloots be? Joran’s filthy
lying pig of a mother… & that rancid
slab of meat Paulus, the raping pedophile…
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS IF NAT WAS
MINE, YOU PEOPLE WOULD BE IN
JAIL, OR DEAD BY NOW.
WHO THE F DO YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE? -j4n
The beach story is untrue!
It was whipped out to get Nat away from
Vandersloot home. (scene of crime)
They knew getting her
down to the beach– They could create
reasonable doubt. That is why sex predator
Joran Vandersloot said he left her near
the fisherman huts. With that seed planted…
he could say I don’t know what happened
to her… with a serial rapist running around
that had tried to assault a female tourist
earlier.
What better way to get
SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN
TO NATALEE?
Hey Sloot — we see through
the morning fog, dude.
BOW DOWN WHEN WE ROLL
THROUGH YOUR TOWN, B8TCH!
You will be addressed in due time.
You God awful Natalee Holloway
murdering SOB. God have mercy on
your soul, u will need it. -j4n
Hi Carpe (January 11th, 2008 8:12 pm),
Is that from the interview tonight? Where did you get it, is there more. If so, I don’t have to translate it again (Just recorded the whole re-aired show.)
It’s 02.25 am here so I can’t do any translating anymore tonight.
“Maybe tomorrow” – in the words of Willy DeVille…
It’s all a big payoff…Posner is a criminal and should not be there, according to their laws, he allowed all of this to happen, if Joran had not been given permission to enter the casino and not been given permission to Carlos ‘n Charlie’s, this never would of happened. And to give a knowing delinquent priviledges…Paulus and his contacts with someone in the Dutch made this happen. Paulus and his dirty paper works…what you all have done to Aruba is disgraceful!!!! Money grabbing thief’s! I hope the Dutch burn your ass!!!!
I wanna get in on the Deepak email thing…..
“Dated June 5, 2005
How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it will be a shock for you right now.”
“The missing girl natalee hollaway, I spoke to her , Sunday she left with me , my brother and a friend from Carlos n’ Charlies , it was my car like the news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the the students they’ve questioned and released as they claimed in the news . ”
***
Deepak talks like this Betty person he’s emailing has asked him about Natalee, the missing girl already. If so, and since it’s likely so, then Betty would also by this time have heard that her email pal Deepak was with Natalee the night she went missing. So why is he telling her he is one of the persons of interest? She would already know this. And WHY is he calling himself a ‘student’?
This email is so full of contradictions. I know Deepak is a moron, but D..AAA…M!
#73 carpe,
Of Course part of the crime happened at the VDS home. Joran would naturally run to daddy when he had done bad again. And no way would J2K leave Natalee anywhere to be found alive or dead. Alive or dead she’d have been turned over to Paulus by Joran so no one else could find her and cause widdle urine a headache. And there isn’t any other reasonable place to have taken Natalee after something bad happened, initially anyway until somewhere more permanent could be found.
At any rate, consider this…the VDS family was not a happy family even prior to Natalee’s disappearance. IMO, that is. And I base this on that Paulus kept flunking out of his judge test, Joran was a troubled youth and the middle child was following suit. Joran was gambling and drinking and stealing money from his parents to do so. Joran, the pride and joy of first borndom, was seeing a shrink too. He was beating up his brother and plenty of other people all over Aruba. Oh, and lying all the time. Mamma and Pappa act proud, but it seems a farce. This was a dysfunctional family to be sure. They didn’t need any more trouble, especially something more serious than Joran had ever done before. And Joran knew Daddy would fix everything as usual as the family continued to live in denial that they were a mess!
Hi EURobert,
I believe it is from tonight.
I picked it up in the SM Forum.
Get some sleep… & thanks for your
contributions here at SM.
u da man
No.., U da man Carpe!
Guess I stay up all night.
Bought this book today about a possible treasure… Just across the border in Germany… Hidden by the Nazis at the end of WWII.
GOLD!!! DIAMONDS!!! WHAT NOT?!!!
I only have to read one more chapter. And than…
Well.., I have to be there FIRST!
http://www.detranenvandewolf.nl/index.html
If the van der Scum family is dysfunctional (oh, really? tell me something new), who in God’s name knows where it all might stop? I earlier posted a story about a teacher AND HIS WIFE in the UK being involved in human trafficking and prostitution … oh, right, Americans are exempt.
Anyone who looked at the Aruban scene would know that tourists are ripe for the plucking there.
Meanwhile, here’s a small item from today’s USA Today, which I saw at a motel. For St. Croix, I hope that Aruba will be substituted soon:
“St. Croix, an island that has been bypassed by the cruise industry in recent years because of concerns about crime, will receive two port calls from Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines in 2009, Gov. deJongh said.
“Most major lines suspended visits to the island five years ago.”
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the cruise lines decided that Aruba was a place to MISS!
Ditto for the airlines.
Disgusted Mom, you say that Paulus of the ditch kept flunking out of his judge’s test. I have read that he failed it once (a week before Natalee arrived on Aruba); can you tell us where you saw that he failed it repeatedly? That would be very interesting to know! Thank you.
#37 and, therefore, you must be cute? I guess you didn’t go to war. What worthless judgements you show. Maybe you’re ugly? Is that possible child.
DUDE…
The more I think of what Anita said in the
PETER D. interview, it really chaps my lunch sack.
I was raised to always be respectful to women, and never to hit one. BUT IF I HAD A FREE PASS
for one day… I would run down to my local shoe
store & and by a pair of cleats.
Then I would like to kick Anita f’ing Van der sloot right in her big fat Dutch twat. Screw you Anita, you giant gas bag.
-j4n
Yesterday’s show is online now: http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php?id=274
Press button “>> bekijk uitzending”
PVDS has appeared on Dutch TV. He has stated that on his advice Joran has remained silent throughout his last arrest. He claimed that everything had been said, and that only confusion would result from his talking again…
Transscript and translation of last nights Pauw en Witteman tv-show (Please excuse me for all the grammatical and typing errors that will be in here; it’s to time-consuming to do it flawless…. Mr. Witteman’s first name is Paul so I’ll call PaulvdS: ‘Paulus’; that’s easier for me… To not get confused…)
Witteman: Good evening. Yes, Joran van der Sloot was brought back to Aruba end of november to be interrogated. That interrogation produced nothing. He was let go and the case was dismissed.
Pauw: Joran is here, together with his father Paul and with his mother Anita to have as they themselves say, their last tv-interview about this case.
Witt.: Here as well is Peter R. de Vries who has made a television-documentairy about the NH-case and the role JvdS played, and who has his doubts. He has called Joran a lier, so their is something to be discussed.
Pauw: (Looking at Joran) Yes, well.., you can confess now, so we have that behind us…? … … … … Are that the jokes you hear the most? Or what are you bothered with more Joran?
Joran: Well, I’m not really bothered by others.. But you have to keep making jokes. As you just said yourself… else you don’t get through all this.
Pauw: Do you have the feeling now that the whole matter is over now… or do you still have the feeling that if you somewhere hear a sirene… that could be for me?
Joran: Well… Not really like that but uh it’s something that you’ll never forget. It’s something… It sticks with you all the time. You best just keep going on but… It’s something you won’t easily forget. But I think in the judicial sense it now is over yes.
Pauw: Are you addressed on this often?
Paulus: Uhhmmm… No, actually not so… I’m not addressed on this often. Uhh… All-days live goes it’s normal way… And the people at Aruba have had it with this.
Witt.: Yes, they’ve had it with this… But do they believe you?
Paulus: Uuhhm… I think so.
Witt.: So if you walk the streets you don’t think: ‘Oh they look at me… Maybe indeed a murderer… Or some other creepy-person…?’
Paulus: No, I don’t have that feeling at all. No it’s on the contrary very remarkable… uhhh… such a small community as Aruba is… and as it has had very much negative effects because of all this… That they keep and kept being supportive towards us. That has uh amazed us and… it has… our hearts… strengthened… as well. (Unintelligible.)
Witt.: Were you bothered by it?
Anita: Uhhm… Well I wasn’t bothered by it so much… You know that there is talk… I mean in every community… there is talk about what has happened. Actually… uhm, uhm, it was more like… the people they were very supportive. Neighbours, people you didn’t know at all, that still came to you… We lived on Aruba for almost twenty years… And people know Joran from the time he was very small… They saw Paul or me pushing the pram… And a former teacher of him that came by who said: ‘Well this can not at all be possible… Such a sweet kid…’ So that you felt as if this story must have had a different cause… Something else is going on… And… uh, the support… Well it sounds very strange but… it was very big. Really very big.
Witt.: Well, now the case is dismissed, in the judicial sense over with.., is that the reason you agreed to sit at the table with Peter R. de Vries?
Paulus: Well yes we have allways uh, said that uh, as soon as uh, this case us no longer in court.., when uh, the OM uh, is no longer prosecuting it, we uh, are willing to give uh, another interview, in uh, a reliable tv-show. Uh… To show we have nothing to hide. (I have to skip all the ‘uhs’ here now… the’re just to much of them.) And it is so that all this publicity has had a very big impact on this case. It has even at some point taken over it. We thought that as long as this case is going on it was not right to get in the lamplights – however at some times it was necessary – because we didn’t want to frustrate this investigation in any way.
Witt.: Yes, well uhm, Peter R. de Vries is here… He’s tried before… on Aruba as well, to get in contact with you… We’ll show a little clip how that sometimes went. (Clip of PRdVries at Jorans student-house in Arnhem, confronting Joran with fabricated photo of him with Natalee.)
Pauw: Well there were, before we started this show, some jokes made at this table like: ‘Well Peter… where’s your hidden camera…’ Well that hidden camera is not here right now. Peter, you have tried to get in contact with the VanderSloot-family a couple of times to have interviews… So you didn’t just walk behind them with your hidden camera… Do you understand something of the answer of Paul van der Sloot?
PRdV: No, to be honest, I don’t understand very much of that. I think it’s strange to hear him say here, he has nothing to hide, and he didn’t want to frustrate the investigation… But than I have to notice that they did nothing to help the case. Because Joran vdS has when he was at Aruba the last weeks, and could explain all his actions / conducts, maybe could end the mysteries, maybe could shed some light on that.., he has for weeks ‘kept his molars close on top of each-other’ (dutch expression = didn’t speak). Has not spoken a word, not answered one question! That is not what PvdS says…… this nice saying ‘We have nothing to hide’. Then I think… If you are innocent… and you did nothing wrong… why don’t you just tell your story, why don’t you answer questions from the police? The fact that you just kept your jaws closed (dutch expr.) I think in these circumstances is very strange…..
Pauw: Let’s agree that somewhat later in this show on this question, this is one of your questions but you have more of them, get answers from Joran or his father or mother… But first we…
Peter: Yes…. Just give hime some time to think…..
Pauw: Yes… So you have time to find the ‘right’ answer… (LOL) But firs before we talk about this whole matter let’s give the people at home a small summary of what has all happened and what is known… (CLIP of the NH-case)
Witt.: Were you suprised that you were re-arrested?
Joran: yes, off course… I uh… hadn’t expected that at all… I thought they were joking me… when the police arrived at the door… telling me ‘you’re under arrest again’… Because yes, uh I knew they could have nothing on me… so why would they again….
Witt.: Well it was said that there were new facts, so there were new grounds to arrest you again and take you to Aruba to interrogate you.
Joran: Yes, but I knew that would be impossible… that… that…
Witt.: But what than did you think… if it was impossible, what would be the reason they arrested you again?
Joran: Well I don’t know… Maybe I thought somebody has falsely stated against me, or something bad was said about me. I don’t know… Something like that… That’s what I thought… In that direction… Maybe something like that.
Witt.: And what did it turn out to be?! Because… You got there… You were interrogated…
Joran.: Well there turned out to be abslolutely nothing. No new evidence at all… Just old statements that they looked at in a different way.
Witt.: How did the interrogation go?
Joran: Well, just as mr. De Vries said, I just kept silent. I didn’t say anything.
Witt.: Why not?
Joran: I don’t have any trust anymore in the OM at Aruba… I think that they…. they are not trying to find the truth… or trying to find out what happened in this case. They are just literally doing…. they just want somebody to hang for this…
——-
More to come….
Headline news today on my computer server is that Anita asked for an internal investigation of the investigation. Interesting that she asked for it and not Paulus, nor Joran, who were both also present for the interview. That family must really be feeling the heat on the island – OR – she has been kept in the dark by Paulus and Joran. From the perspective of her being an abused wife, it really is possible that she has been kept in the dark, lied to by both her husband and son, and dragged through the mud by all of this by association. In my opinion, though, she needs to wake up and understand that her son IS responsible for Natalee’s disappearance and has contributed nothing to the effort to solve this case. NOTHING. All he has done is lie, lie, lie. And her husband has contributed nothing by getting all his pals, judges included, to obstruct the investigation. Personally, I think, the Van der Sloots are getting positioned to dump the responsibility of Natalee’s disappearance totally on Deepak Kalpoe and absolve themselves completely from it all. That would be the disappearance, not any rape allegations or sexual conduct by Joran – as past actions by him show there is definitely a pattern of picking up American tourist young girls with the explicit expectation of sex.
Maggie, thank you for your response. Sounds conclusive for that location. Current at Fishermans would probably wash her up somewhere at one of the High or low rise hotels…
But what about more to the east of the island?
Any point west of eagle beach would have a different effect.
Since none of the J2K statements can be trusted, what if she entered the water (forcibly or by her own account) more on the South East of the island? BTW, the suspects lied about her last location (SW), the direct oposite of SW is SE…
Anyway, this of course leans more to foul play then an accident..
BTW Baby beach on the most SE point of the island is a secluded beach which has offshore winds and offshore running current most of the time… It would also be a “romantic” place to take somebody…
Too much speculation from my part….
This article on the vdS family interview was sent to me. Joran just sat there and said nothing, or nearly so … this bitch Anita is so sickening.
We all want to “just move on” … yeah, right.
What’s that mean, go to Carlos ‘n’ Charlies and have a few beers? You Dutch/Aruban animals, the van der Sloots! I wish you would all be put in a zoo, in the same cage as a dozen polar bears.
Mother of Former Holloway Suspect Wants Probe Into Probe
Friday, January 11, 2008
THE HAGUE, Netherlands — The mother of a former suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager Natalee Holloway said Friday she hopes a probe will bring closure for all the families involved.
“I would like the investigation to continue,” said Anita van der Sloot, mother of Joran van der Sloot, one of three youths extensively interrogated by police and prosecutors in connection with the disappearance.
“I would also like to see an investigation into the investigation,” she added during the television interview.
Anita van der Sloot, who appeared for the interview with her husband and son, said her family as well as Holloway’s needed answers.
“I think it’s also very important that for them — for everybody, but particularly for them — there has to be clarity,” she said. “Then we can move on. As long as that doesn’t happen there will be questions. There will be fingers pointing at Joran.”
Joran van der Sloot, who said little during the interview, said he doubts that Holloway is still alive.
Holloway was on a high school graduation trip to Aruba when she vanished May 30, 2005, hours before she was to return home to Mountain Brook, Ala. Extensive searches of the island turned up no trace of her.
The three former suspects, who are the last people known to have seen her, initially said they dropped Holloway off at her hotel.
After hotel security cameras disproved that, they were arrested and Joran van der Sloot said he left her alone on a beach and had no idea how she disappeared.
Authorities in Aruba say the case against the three could be reopened if additional evidence surfaces. But if they were to go to trial now with virtually no hope of guilty verdicts, they would lose the opportunity to try them later if strong evidence emerges.
Hey, everyone, are you outraged to see those comments up above? Does it make you sick that Anita is throwing out that BS, “Oh, let’s all move on … poor, dear little Joran is still a suspect”?
Are you angry that after two and a half years, there seems to be less reason than ever to think that there will be justice for Natalee Holloway?
Posting here is fine … but that’s not all that is being done. Aruba Tourism Authority is going to be holding more of its shows in New York and (again) Boston soon. Consider joining in!
Vicki is in charge of organizing events now. She posts here, and I’m sure that Red can put you in contact with her if you don’t know the right e-mail address to use.
If you’re in the Boston or New York area, take a weekend, be prepared to meet some interesting and dedicated people, and do the right thing for Natalee … show up and do your bit to dissuade people from going to Aruba. Believe me, it’s worthwhile. And it DOES MATTER.
I remember when I got to Boston last year for that protest. There was a very sleazy-looking guy hanging around the entrance, watching to see if we were going to show up. Once I got there, he hightailed it into the convention center, looking for someone to run interference for them.
His efforts failed. After that, I saw him once or twice … but he would never look any of us in the eye. The Aruban way, I guess.
This is the chance to do something real, to stand up for Natalee, to protest outrageous injustice.
It takes one weekend of your time. Do this for Natalee, for simple decency (that is, if you believe that what has happened in Aruba is indecent, to say nothing more), and for other Americans. The life you help save might be your own loved one’s, or your friend’s or neighbor’s.
Don’t let others go to the realm of the drug lords. Stand up for Natalee; boycott Aruba.
And take a weekend to help spread that message.
Meanwhile, here are an article or two on human trafficking in the United States. No reason for them to be in a thread about Natalee Holloway, of course, because we know such things can’t happen to an American overseas. Not in Aruba, anyways.
Inland Soroptimists attacking human trafficking door to door
Download story podcast
10:00 PM PST on Friday, January 11, 2008
By MELISSA EISELEIN
The Press-Enterprise
Inland Soroptimist club members are trying to help end human trafficking and sexual slavery by increasing awareness of the crimes that have claimed victims locally.
Their effort is part of a national Soroptimist campaign, Slavery’s New Face: The Sexual Trafficking of Women and Girls.
Soroptimist International of the Americas, a Philadelphia-based organization that aims to improve the lives of women and girls, began the campaign Friday, the first National Day of Human Trafficking Awareness.
Soroptimists are trying to raise awareness that human slavery is not just a Third World problem. They hope that as a result, people will recognize and report human trafficking and bondage, said Pam Field, of La Quinta. Field oversees Soroptimist programs for the organization’s Golden West region that includes 63 clubs in the Inland area and Arizona.
Riverside Soroptimist president Jeanne Holmes said her club plans to work with Inland organizations, including the Greater Riverside Chambers of Commerce, to distribute pamphlets that tell the story of young Filipina who came to Los Angeles to work as a domestic helper but was forced into prostitution.
In Moreno Valley, Soroptimist members left the pamphlets with motel managers who agreed to make them available to travelers.
“Some of the innkeepers were very aware of this problem. They said that if this helps one person it’s worth it,” said Moreno Valley Soroptimist president Patricia Box.
Difficult to Identify
California, along with New York and Florida, ranks highest in the U.S. for human trafficking, but the exact number of cases is unclear, said Nancy Matson, the state attorney general’s Crime and Violence Prevention Center director.
“It’s not necessarily something that is easy to identify,” Matson said.
Matson recently served as chairwoman of the California Alliance to Combat Trafficking and Slavery Task Force. In December, the task force released its findings and recommendations to the state in a 128-page report.
According to the report, lack of awareness and societal attitudes about women, migrants and some ethnic groups perpetuates the problem of human trafficking in California. In addition, many law enforcement, health and social service providers may fail to recognize the signs of human trafficking.
Those signs include bruises, an unkempt appearance, emotional stress and isolation, Matson said. Many victims speak no English.
“It’s really a lot of these put together,” Matson said.
Despite its elusive nature, some cases of human trafficking and sexual slavery do come to light, such as those in recent years in the Inland area. In 2005, a Mead Valley man was arrested on suspicion of beating and raping two developmentally disabled women whom he held captive in his home. Evidence found in his home indicated there may be dozens of victims who were drugged, tied up, raped and brutalized in his home, investigators said. A Rialto couple was convicted of first-degree murder in 2006 after they kidnapped, tortured and sexually abused a Las Vegas teenager before killing her and hiding her body in a horse trailer.
The girl was held captive for 40 days, court records indicated.
In July, a Nevada man was convicted in a Riverside court on several counts, including sex trafficking of children, conspiracy and witness tampering.
The man brought two girls, ages 14 and 16, across the state line to work as prostitutes in California.
http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=229319
CLIFTON PARK, N.Y. — “In every country throughout the world, including the United States, women and girls are trafficked and enslaved for sex,” said Saratoga County Soroptimist International President, Mary Huber.
Huber’s club works to help women and girls and she wants everyone to know sex trafficking is going on right now. It’s a tough message you’ll see in brochures around the state.
“Because it’s hidden, we can’t be sure about the exact statistics,” she said.
Huber and other officials are working to confront the problem – apparently a $32 billion global industry and one that may use the Capital Region more than we think, especially because the Northway and 90 run right through.
WATCH THE VIDEO
Officials warn of human trafficking
Huber’s club works to help women and girls and she wants everyone to know sex trafficking is going on right now.
Ken Franzblau, DCJS Director of Human Trafficking Training, said, “We must all be aware that the demand exists through prostitution.”
Troop G Major, Patricia Groeber, said, “This is not a new issue, but one that continues to grow, with an estimated 14,000 to 17,000 men women and children in the United States being trafficked each year.”
New state legislation now makes it likely someone found guilty of the crime will get decades in prison, instead of just a year or two. And that new legislation not only increases the penalties for those who commit the crime, it also helps the victims.
Saratoga County District Attorney, James Murphy, said, “We’ll assist her (a victim) in obtaining benefits and services from social services be it housing, be it assistance with heating, or food.”
They say you can help too by looking for signs as you travel for someone who may be controlling another person.
“You have to use your common sense if you get that gut feeling don’t be afraid to pick up the phone,” advised Groeber.
While the last known case in our area happened in 2004 they say even one person’s vigilance can prevent a lifetime of horror.
Joran: … they just want somebody to hang for this… They just want for their own egos to… That they themselves come good out of this…
Witt.: Even if it is an innocent person as well…
Joran: Yes, even if it is an innocent person as well. I’m convinced of that.
Peter: Well I think it’s a bit awkward that you say the Aruban OM is not trustworthy where it was you who lied all the time?!
Joran: Yes I lied and I admitt that but there were reasons for that and you don’t know them and….
Peter: Yes! I would like to know those reasons! … To lie about what you have done where you supposedly have nothing to hide!? Why do you have to lie then, tell me that?!
Joran: Well I did that extensivly in my book allready. And you have read that so you allready know the reasons.
Peter: But you are here now to tell your story or…?!!!
Witt.: Let’s agree that we the second part of the show will give you the opportunity to do that but first let’s tell the story of the VdSloot-family according to the rules we’ve in advance agreed on with Joran namely that we first look at what actually happened. Because you say I kept my mouth shut. I didn’t tell them anything more and they didn’t come up with anything new. Were those interrogations despite that tough?
Joran: Uhmmmmm… Well in fact compared to the first ones they were not. They turned out less tough than I’d expected. There was a Dutch detective-team that told THEIR story and in fact it was just speculating what they did. The allready talked in terms of ‘a girl that was dead’, you name it, where in fact it’s just a missing girl.
Pauw: That is all in the file is it… Because in the file of the judge-commissionar it says that it has to be put first that there are strong indications that Natalee is dead.
Joran: I would like to now that know as well…
Pauw: Because there is now evidence you know of she’s dead?
Joran: (Shakes his head.)
Pauw: Well, Deepak Kalpoe had stated that ‘her death was not good’?
Witt.: One of your friends there…
Joran: Yes, that uhhh… I don’t know either how that has went/gone (?) exactly… That’s something you should ask them.
Pauw: Didn’t you ask that to them ever? Like: ‘What have you said now?’
Joran: No (Unintelligible.)
Pauw: But what did you say than?
Joran: No I never asked him that. I uh, I mean we were so often interrogated by the police and we’ve in the beginning made so many statements… And I have allready said all there is to tell. So I think also… Yes… Why do I have to make the same statements twenty times to the police? I think that… the only thing they try is to find a little difference in them…
Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe – which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …
Joran: His brother.
Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect – you – has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?
Joran: Yes, … I, I, … It’s three years ago now and in the beginning we’ve been really treated tough by the police and made to say things that we… wouldn’t say ourselves. And yes I have the feeling they made me want to say things that weren’t true.
Pauw: Did you never say… Or have you never spoken about burying Natalee Holloway?
Joran: No I have never discussed that with the pollice.
Anita: Can I go into that for a moment?
Witt.: Off course.
Anita: Uhmmm… When Joran was arrested for the first time I was the only one who was allowed to see him. Because he was a minor and they wanted to keep out Paul because of his function. Uhm, I have spoken to Joran some times but only short, some 15 to twenty minutes. And I am his mother. I love him very dearly. And I’m really convinced he wouldn’t do anything to that girl. These first emotions, these are very important to me… to see them in him as well… For a moment I doubted him. I’ve thought… By Jingo, could an accident have happened? Has something happened? Doesn’t he want to tell… He is just having his final exams… He knows he has final-exams-celebrations… He has a girlfriend… so he’s cheated on her… His father will be very angry with him… Etc. etc…. So I very directly spoke with him and one of the confrontations… that I came over there… And I was taken by an Aruban detective… And Joran was very upset… He before that was beset for hours and hours… Words were put in his mouth… which he never said… that were put to paper but that he never signed. And they showed that to me…: ‘This is what he said!’
Pauw: Well these are maybe not the most subtle moments in this conversation but Joran, you visited a psychiatrist because you were lying all the time.
Joran: No… That was not the reason why I visited the psychiatrist. I’ve been two times to a childrens psychiatrist but that was because we had some things going on within our family.
Anita: I can explain that as well… So you can hear it from my own mouth… Paul was in Holland for the Judges-training and I had to deal with three children in my own… And Joran as many seventeen year olds… I myself work with teens… And uh… he was not the easiest one. Besides that we had problems with… I had some problems with him… That he came home way to late… Uhm… I’m rather strict… Maybe even sometimes I was a little to strict… And at a certain point after talking about it with a friend of mine, maybe it’s good when we have some consults with a youth-psychiatrist. Because I just want that he has a goal in life… that he thinks well what he wants with his life and all this ‘going out’ I just think bad about that. And at that time he started playing poker in the casino and I don’t want my son being in the casino! So I contacted I youth-psychiatrist… He wasn’t 18 yet, he still was seventeen… He went there twice, that’s correct and we had one conlusive-conversation after that. And that was it… So it was really not just about lying…
Peter: What I now think is striking is that they have no confidence what soever in the judicial authorities. where at the same time it hasn’t been a long time ago that Paul vd Sloot did his very best to work in that organisation.
Pauw: As a judge you mean…
Peter: As a judge. I think it’s striking that suddenly there is so little confidence in that organisation…
Paulus: Well look uhhhh… Mister De Vries can’t hear that good… If he would have listened carefully he would have heard that Joran said that he didn’t have any confidence in the OM (public pros.)! That’s what Joran has said. Joran didn’t talk about the judicial authorities. What you see now.., what has happened is that luckely we have judicial authorities… And we sit here again! So in the end it’s because of the judicial authorities that all has ended well.
Witt.: The judge has said: the case must be dismissed, there is to little evidence, Joran is free! Well let’s for a minute get back to that prosecution before Joran was released because Joran just said they wanted to frame me; that’s what it came to it.
—
More to come…
EURobert
Thank you for the translation. Can’t wait for the rest.
1006,
How about it? What do you know about the reporter Sergio Gomez? He was investigating the death of Rene when he disappeared. Some sites list him as one and the same as Rene.
I can’t find anything. What do you know?
Jerry
Richard, RE: Paulus flunking his judge test more than once…
There were some really great articles out there at one time about Paulus VDS’s career. There was mention of him pizzing people off as a lawyer over such things as not allowing some road to be made over his land which the alternative route would have been much more expensive.(he won against the taxpayers) There were lots of things mentioned he’d done in his career that favored certain individuals (who might be seen as some who would owe him favors, such as that woman who wanted to open a crematorium on the island). Paulus’s methods were described in one article as ‘compromise’ where both sides of an issue gave in so everyone could win something because it seemed Paulus was normally on the side of an issue the majority was against. It was in one of these articles that I recall it being said Paulus had failed his judge test before and this latest time right before Natalee went missing was a shock to him.
OK so we need a link! I’ll try to find one, but the place I got if from originally is no longer there. Go figure, huh?
Hodges fan on January 10th, 2008 11:46 am
If J2K dumped her body 10+ miles out to sea, as one ex-Deepak drug buddy says, the span of ocean to search is daunting, to say the least.
Hodges,
Do you have a link to any statements made by ex-Deepak drug buddy?
Jerry
EURobert – thanks so much for transcribing in English the show!
Thanks Buckeye and Klaasend,
I see that while translating I frequently mix up words like: know, now, no and there, their, the’re….
I know the difference between them…. It’s just that I’m concentrating on so many things at the same time. Sorry.
Deepak’s fact inspiring druggie session was reported as a lead to the Holloway family by Hodges(The reward for info could certainly yield some pretty big drug festivals).
Here’s the link to Hodges site and his findings while in Aruba.
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/default.aspx?200819
You see, there I go again. Where I wrote the’re I meant they’re…
______________________
SM: No matter, we still get the meaning of the translations. Thank you so much! (klaasend)
EURobert
I haven’t noticed any errors. You’re great. There are a lot more typos in the forum than you display.
It’s a lot of work. Thanks.
Dr. Hodges’ quote relating to Deepak’s drug buddy relating Deepak’s statements to him re: dumping Nat’s body 10 miles out during one of their drug taking sessions:
“As I write this, the ocean search is now getting to deeper waters where the body most likely is. The boat has demonstrated excellent capability to spot underwater targets. Various anonymous tips have been received about the location of Natalee’s body. One of the most intriguing has been a tip from a reported friend of Deepak who said that Deepak confessed one evening while using drugs together that they had dropped the body 10 miles out into the ocean.”
Full detailed account here:
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/default.aspx?200819
EURobert:
Thanks for all your hard work. So far it is pretty clear to me that this family is so pathetic and screwed up. They will never recover from this, put it behind them, move on. They are desperate to forget and move on. Joran’s murderous rampage will haunt them all the days of their lives.
Anita knows deep down that her husband Paulus and son Joran are murderers and rapists. It must be tough for her. Anita’s life is like a snowball moving fast downhill gathering steam and size as it goes.
Wait till Oprah has Beth and Matt on next week. The snowball gets ever bigger. These pathetic murdering souls will never ever ever recover.
Their lives are essentially over. Dr. Hodges is correct about unconscious guilt. This whole TV interview is their lame attempt to absolve themselves of their own guilt.
The dynamics are facinating. Joran feels nothing! No guilt whatsoever, in my opinion. His mother knows he is a monster. See how she reverts back to the days when he was a baby in a pram? She desperately wants a second chance to raise him. She gave birth to the devil. I doubt that any changes in raising him would have prevented any of this from occuring.
Anyone have thoughts in that? If someone took Joran in his pram and gave him better parents, would he be the monster he is today? I mean, if he’d had parents that disciplined him, educated him, did not allow him to gamble and rape. Would he have turned out to be a good guy?
Don’t think for a second that Anita and Paulus did not have some indication that Joran was drugging and raping girls before he raped and murdered Natalee. They knew it. They have known all along. Like I said, it’s a snowball gathering size and speed rolling downhill.
Was this interview scheduled long ago or does anyone think the pressure from the Persistence has brought this to the surface? Now more than ever I believe Natalee is in the ocean and I think Persistence is on track. The Sloots are behaving strangely, getting defensive and acting scared.
It is refreshing to see him get BLASTED again by De Vries over his uncontrollable psychotic lying fits.
Peter seems to be calling him out on all that sh–
U GO PETER…
I’m friggin’ sick of this lying coward to the back tooth.
Natalee Ann wanted to “get on with life” too, Joran! You kind of screwed that up for her, huh?
Where was her chance to see the Judge or
Appeal? You took it from her.
That kid needs 5 fingers to the face.
-Rick James
Anita & Paulus you should have been nailing him
on this stuff all along. He’s now snowballed
into a MONSTER. See more at: RUNAWAY TRAIN
…but other than that,
Enjoy your weekend.
-j4n
Richard, Re: paulus and his test flunking again…
I’m not having any luck with that at the moment, however I am finding people saying Paulus WAS in fact a judge and there was no test to take. They are saying a person is appointed judgeship and then is considered to be ‘in training’ for 3 years before actually being given a permanent seat. Seems Paulus was appointed in 2003 and his 3 years would have been up in Jan 06, but he did not get appointed permanently and was instead ‘let go’ as in ‘fired’. If true, it would be interesting to know why.
I don’t know anymore what to believe. Maybe someone else might investigate this more. I have dialup and you know how long that takes to load stuff.
Mother of Former Holloway Suspect
Wants Probe Into Probe
Friday, January 11, 2008
…
I’ll tell that 8itch where she can go get a probe…
Spencers at the mall.
Online.
…and sometimes they sell ‘em on E-BAY.
I hear the pink fuzzy handcuffs can be a hoot-ski!
…
Justice 4 Our
Girl, Nat.
C’mon RV PERSISTENCE…
I know u can do it!
the analysis on the pram is right on! Anita wants to turn back time. The hands of time move forward. She cannot return him to a cute little innocent bundle of joy. That is the only way she can love him; to turn him back in her mind to an innocent baby and child.
They knew he was drugging and raping girls, sneaking out at night to gamble and rape and they encouraged it by providing an underage boy (monster) his own apartment. Who does that?
Van der Sloots, you are getting what you deserve!
To Joran this is like a really great game. It’s an end game. The stakes are high. Lie really well and keep your freedom…. This is the best card game he has ever played. Adrenaline rushes through his veins as he lies to the world. Do you think he fantasizes about the night he murdered Natalee? I bet it turns him on. I am sure Paulus gets a rise from his unzipped pants too.
Disgusting pigs! All of them!!!!!!
BOYCOTT ARUBA FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!
THE ROCKS
COP LOOKS AT OBJECT ON ROCK
….
http://tinyurl.com/2dlm27
CLOSER VIEW
http://tinyurl.com/24c9rd
Anita wants the investigation to continue because she has this twisted idea that somehow Joran will be absolved of all responsibility and suspicion and they can resume their lives which consists of, Anita having her head up her ample @$$, Joran raping girls killing a few here and there, daddy Paulus helping to cover all the dirty little deeds.
Anita, you will never be free of the chains that bind you!
Has anyone seen the parent sloots return again to watch Persistence from the beach?
They are worried! HAHAHAHAHA!
By the way, her name is Natalee and not “the girl.”
Next bit…
Witt.: Well let’s for a minute get back to that prosecution before Joran was released because Joran just said they wanted to frame me; that’s what it turned out to be.
Joran: Well it was more like… In the beginning… the first time I was arrested they were rather tough with us: they sticked pictures of the girl to the wall… And uh, they told me as well… these two brothers… They played us off against eachother. Suggested that we had said things about eachother that were… That weren’t true all the time…
Witt.: But you all had learned the same story?
Joran: Yes.., we had agreed on… we had agreed on that… in advance…
Pauw: That you had taken her to a hotel… And that she was so unstable she had to hold on to a pillar… And I think that all three of you up to the pillar, told the same story?!
Joran: Yes but everyone had added their own things to it…
Pauw: But why did you do that? Why did you agree on making up this particular story?
Joran: Yes.., yes… Why this story? I just was scared at that moment… Those parents suddenly were at our house… And yes… I didn’t have a clue either what to do next.
Pauw: And so you decide the three of you to make up one story and this is how we’re going to tell it.
Peter: You just can tell the truth can you, when nothing happened? There’s no reason to lie is there?
Joran: Yes, I don’t think the truth sounds that good if you have to say you left a girl at the beach.
Peter: So you think a lie sounds better than the truth?
Joran: Well I didn’t know how serious this all was. I didn’t know there was a serious problem.
Peter: That’s exacly why it is so strange to lie!? When you don’t know that there is a serious problem there is no reason to lie at all!? That’s exactly the strange thing of lying here!?
Pauw: Peter… Peter you a father of a teenager, well maybe that’s a bit insipid, father of a young daughter… You can imagine you do something… leaving a girl at the beach… Let’s just tell I decently brought her back…. Such a little lie you can imagine can you?
Peter: No, I can’t imagine that Jeroen… I think you must try to see the psychology behind that. When he doesn’t know what has happened to that girl and she, after she slept away her drunkenness, simply shows up again then he is really caught lying! The fact that he nevertheless tells this lie you can interpret as: he knew he wouldn’t get caught telling this lie. Because he knew Natalee wouldn’t show up again!
Witt.: Don’t you think you look at this in a to much argumentual way? We talk about a seventeen year old boy who is confronted with the parents of girl that possibly has disappeared, maybe think that she is murdered and look at him, then you get in a panic don’t you think? In that case you may not immediatly tell them ‘Yes, I left her at the beach’.
Peter: Well I think it’s always the best option to simply tell the truth especially when you’re…
Witt.: But as a reality-reporter you must know there are exeptions to this rule…?
Peter: Yes, and most of the time they have good reasons.. But in a situation that nothing has happened.., there were no wrongdoings.., the girl herself wanted to stay there.., or get home by herself… than that’s what you say don’t you? The fact that you don’t do that AND THE THREE OF YOU IN A VERY SMART WAY MAKE UP A STORY… I think that’s suspicious.
Joran: I think it’s bad that I lied myself as well and that’s what I regret the most. If I had came forward with the truth at the beginning I think everything would have gone very different. And I think that as well is one off the reasons mister De Vries thinks the way he thinks but when you just look at the facts in this case… The timeperiod I was with this girl, being home after that, going to school the next day, and other things… What then do you try to say I have done?
Peter: If you want to discuss the facts, than tell me how you got home that night?
Joran: I was taken home by Satish…
Peter: Yes… And he denies that! He says I didn’t take him to his home at all! And first you stated that you were brought home by Deepak!!?? Not by Satish!!! Those are things as well that put you in a…..
Joran: Mister De Vries… I don’t know if you ever…
Peter: Why should they lie?
Witt.: Give him a change to answer this….
Joran: …if you ever were interrogated by the police…. in a murder case…
Peter: (Unintelligible. Something like ‘Yes I was’…)
Joran: In a murder-case?!
Peter: No… Not where I was a suspect…
Joran: The way I was interrogated was no pleasure…
Peter: And you know….
Joran: The only thing you think of is wanting to go home… So there are things you say that…. Yes… If you’re being promised you can go home… or it can help to get you home… than there are things you say that… (Unintelligible.)
Peter: (Unintelligible.)
Witt.: (Unintelligible.) Peter! Especially you know that people confess a murder that they didn’t commit. (In the past PRdV has gotten some people out of jail that indeed had confessed to committing a murder after being put under very strong pressure.)
Peter: And what does that has to do with this?
Witt.: Because in this way you can miss the truth.
Peter: But… How DID you get home?
Joran: I just told you that!?!
Peter: But those two brother denie that and from the email… from the sms- and chat-contacts that were there it shows up clearly that they didn’t bring you home.
Joran: That’s what you draw from that… But that’s not true at all… I think it indeed DOES show that.
Pauw: Back to your father if you don’t mind… You were judge-in-training I believe… And now you’re lawyer… And you have a son… and that son is interrogated, and this son tells a story of which you later find out…. Did you tell hiim yourself (to Joran)… Or how did you find out that it was a lie? You know… Dropped her off at the hotel and so on…
Joran: Yes… He heard that from the police.
Pauw: What did you think then?
Paulus: Well we were angry… So then we learned that Joran didn’t tell the truth…
can the folks at Scared Monkey please print the English transcripts of the VDS monsters in succession?
I believe they are worried that Persistence is getting close. This is their desperate attempt to sway public opinion. It could be over for them soon!
Thanks EURobert! You are the best!
Ing, My guess would be…they were never at the beach, unless it was to get rid of her.
EURobert, Thank you so much!!!!
Paulus: Well we were angry… So when we learned that Joran didn’t tell the truth Anita and I just were very angry at Joran.
Pauw: A girl is missing and your son is a suspect and on top of that he has lied…
Paulus: Yes, yes, for us that was incomprehensible. That, that, … not just that he lied but he kept that lie up / kept on lying for a long time. That was… yes that was incomprehensible to us. We were very angry about that at that moment.
Pauw: Did you at that point say to him: ‘as long as there is no body there is no case’?
Paulus: No, I’ve never said that. That’s a term that you drop here now but…
Pauw: It’s put in the book like this as well…
Paulus: Yes.., but that term was used by the then Public Prosecutor, uh after I uh.. had had an interview with Twan Huys (dutch tv), of which the message was… well, we’re not the victims… let’s first concentrate on this girl… Let’s try to find that girl back. And she then, the next day, didn’t pick up that message and she said “Yes, this father, this (Unintelligible.) concerned father. But, he has instructed these guys: ‘No corps no case’, and that’s the reason why they are stating this way.” That was the only thing, and that off course is the heart of the matter, that I from the start on have said, this is a missing-case! This is not a criminal case. And that in my opinion is the big mistake that the OM has made: from the start they were talking about murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, rape… when there was no evidence for that. And later everything is getting in a certain light and now two and a half years later that has been corrected, but that has been very unfortunate.
Peter: I don’t think were are here now to assume this girl is still alive?!
Witt.: We’ll get to that later. Let’s get back a minute. You worked there as a back up judge. Imagine… This is a strictly hypothetical question… Imagine Joran telling you, a confidant par excelence in this family maybe, listen dad, I did something horrible… What would you have done in that case? I would have gone with Joran to the Public Prosecutor! Did you discuss this scenario with one another?
Paulus: What do you mean?
Anita: (Unintelligible. Something like: I, as a parent? Yes)
Witt.: You would agree with that?
Anita: Yes.
Witt.: You would have informed the police against your son?
Anita: Yes.
Joran: And I uh, can confirm that…. (LOL)
Witt.: You mean they would have threatened you with that?
Joran: No I think they would have done that yes.
Paulus: There would have been no doubts about that. I btw was amazed that a lot of people think that you could be able to hide something like this. For me that would have been absolutely strange. There would have been absolutely no doubts about that.
Pauw: Have you have doubts? Was there a moment you thought maybe he did it? That maybe an accident had happened and …
Paulus: No actually I have never doubted it one time.
Anita: I did.
Paulus: I have always seen the way Joran was with girls… He was not able to do that… I’m sure of that. He would, if anything would have happened to that girl, he would have acted accordingly.
Witt.: Yes, let’s talk a minute how Joran was with girls… He’s in his book very frank about it… For him it apparently was or is easy to seduce girls… So easy that you can question yourself if it always happened with the decency that has to go with that proces in comparison with someone who has much more difficulties getting in contact with girls and is much more courteously. For example you don’t write very respectfully about Natalee…
Joran: No… I am very respectfull towards girls. I have for example never pushed a girl (can’t hear it 100% right and don’t know what he means with that). Or did something wrong to a girl.
Witt.: Well there was talk of “the bitch this” and “the bitch that”. And you hardly knew this girl and still you were intimate with her. And after that leaving her there alone? These are not things that proof you have high respects for women.
Joran: No but it symply was so that I was in the casino and I was by her girlfriends invited to go out. And one thig led to the other and she wanted to come with us as well. She invited me to dance with her. Not that I didn’t want it but….
Witt.: No, it’s about this Joran. Your father says: ‘What we know of Joran is that he doesn’t do wrong things with girls. Opposite to that is the fact that you left her at the beach, you cheated on your own girlfriend not just with Natalee but with another girl as well… That is not evidence of a principle respect you have for these women?!
Joran: Well I can not, uh, I uh, well uh… Well maybe you’re right about that. Yes.
Witt.: But returning to the father, maybe you exaggerate the ‘respectfull’ way Joran behaves towards women?
Paulus: I have always seen that Joran respectfully treated girls. And we’ve discussed that as well. So for me it’s incomprehensible that a girl that wasn’t totally well was left behind by him.
Anita: He has had two times a longer relationship and that girl visited our house, we knew her parents, we knew that girl. And he is still in contact with that girl and we are – she still calls me ‘Mam’. He was with her for nine months, that girl was sixteen… That girl has very strongly defended Joran after that. After that there were some other dates. I think, and again I work with teens, 16, 17 and 18-year olds, that is very normal behaviour for a 17 year old boy. Well there were many telephone-calls normally, like: ‘Is Joran at home?’, ‘Can I speak to Joran?’ Well at a certain point Joran had his own telephone so we didn’t keep an eye on it anymore. But I have never seen, nor at our school because, he was at my school, I did see him a lot there off course, again I’ve never seen anything of bad behaviour…
Witt.: Have you ever thought that maybe an accident had happened because…
Anita: Yes that indeed I’ve thought for a moment… Because… Joran leaving a girl behind at the beach… That’s impossible because we allways say: Walk up with a girl when you lead her out by the door… So we didn’t bring him up like that and I then was furious at him, both of us were. So for a short while I thought that something could have happened…
Witt.: With alcohol and drugs maybe? …
Anita: Maybe. Well… With drugs… no… But alcohol… Those doubts were there for a while when I was in Holland but there I thought that the girl would soon show up again. But after three days it all became very worrying.
Witt.: Okay, we now go as agreed with Peter R. de Vries about his approach and your reaction to that but first we’ll watch todays news. (Newsclip)
Pauw: Okay, Peter R. de Vries as we announced earlier
Pauw: Okay, Peter R. de Vries as we announced earlier, you’ve made a documentary which has aired two or three times. And all three times it got much attention. A lot of people watched it and that indicates that it is a case which in The Netherlands is very well followed by many and that many people are interressed in. According to you, what happened?
Peter: That would be speculating… I wasn’t there…
Pauw: But you make some assumptions that….
Peter: Well I hear the parents now make some statements like: We don’t think Joran would do such a thing, he has respect for girls… But off course many other scenario’s are possible. I don’t say he willingly and knowingly did something to Natalee because of which she deceased. Another scenario is possible in which against his will something happened as a result of which… Well she had drank, she was a vulnerable girl and she could have passed out because of that… Where upon he panicked and instead of calling the police, he called his father and maybe did something different. But okay that’s speculating, but again there are more scenario’s possible where it didn’t start out with any evildoing.
Pauw: What than makes you feel that you have to keep focusing on this investigation. Because you could say as well: ‘Okay this guy now has been so often freed of charges, and nothing has been proven….’
Peter: Well he was not declared ‘not guilty’…
Pauw: Why can’t you say I quit now or I find out what happened by talking to other people
Peter: Well you again invite me to come talk about it so in that sense you keep getting confronted with it.
Pauw: But what is it that triggers you to…
Peter: Well what triggers me is that Joran simply undoubtedly lied about certain things, where at the same time he has no legitimate reason for that. And he hasn’t stated on that very clearly and the fact that he STILL as he was arrested the last time never spoke a word. I think that’s very awkward. And I wonder if that is something his father agrees with as a person who himself wanted to be a judge. And that in such a crucial case where a girl has disappeared and where the mother of that girl is still desperate about the whereabouts of her daughter. That you then still can keep your mouth shut whereas the investigation is aimed at getting clearity on that. And on certain points he has lied and those lies were never cleared by him.
Witt.: Mister Van der Sloot?
Paulus: I agree with Joran totally. Because Joran at that moment couldn’t do anything else. And I have advised Joran to not talk because he allready has said it all. Look…..
Peter: Who says it that he has told everything by now? There simply are still some questions.
Paulus: You have to imagine such an interrogation… And I wondered about that I must say…, such a detective in fact allready has his analysis completed and next he wants confirmation of that. So he starts asking questions… And when you give an answer that doesn’t fit his analysis then there’s another question and another… And then they go back to earlier statements… And at that moment there was nothing left to gain… for nobody… when Joran had started to talk.
Pauw: But what Peter says is that your son has lied several times… and because he has lied it’s logical that the detective keeps asking questions untill he’s heard the truth. And that’s one of the tasks the OM has to do: finding the truth. And you say as a judge in training and later as a lawyer, keep your mouth shut!
Paulus: Yes, and I have explained that. He allready had told everything.
Witt.: So you believe your son 100%… He has nothing to do with the disappearence of Natalee Holloway. What does he have to lose than?
Paulus: It would just create more confusion (OMG!!!)… Look, you must see that Joran has explained it himself as well
Witt.: But he won’t say I did it when he didn’t do it?
Joran: But you as well have to see that now that they had me convined again for these 16 days I was in full isolation… I wasn’t allowed to see anyone, to do anything, read a book, have contacts with others… And that to me was very frustrating. You are powerless against this… or say leave me alone or I walk away from it…
Pauw: But how than is it possible that you knew that these two brothers were released?
Joran: Well it’s a small prison. The womensprison had their court-yard close to my cell-window and from them you hear stuff… They told me what was in the newspapers…
Peter: Okay, he says and his father agrees, I don’t talk again with the OM because everything is allready said. But that off course is the question because there are still things open about which there is no clearity yet. Among which the question how did you get home. My experiences are that and I have seen this very often, that when people further refuse to make any statements most of the time that is not because they lack confidence in the OM but because they forgot their previous lies! And in those cases it’s better to keep silent.
Joran: Well mister De Vries I hope that one day it all comes out and you have to appologize for all the things you’ve said.
Anita: Well I was interrogated by the KLPD as well, for some four hours but the questions were not directed at ‘finding the truth’ but at ‘Joran must hang’. (Edit; because Anita is a bit long-winded in what she says I compress from here on what she says.)
Peter: But I must say that it has taken quite a long time before your son was arrested the first time. And let’s not forget that it was he who came up with very strong lies. Than it’s not strange when justice dep. says: You were the last who was seen with Natalee; you tell us a story that was lied from the first to the last word, …
Anita: (Edited) But I’ve seen some of Joran’s statements and the slightest change in his statement – f.a. at a location where he pointed somewhat more to the left the he had previously done – that was considdered a new statement.
Peter: Well, that inherent to these kinds of investigations. And lets note well that you talk of somewhat more to the left or right but in Joran’s statements there is talk of MILES of differences between locations with his lies! It was all made up!
Pauw: Okay Peter let’s establish two things here. First there is no disagreement about the fact that Joran has lied. You have admitted that and admitted that that was a stupid thing to do. And if you hadn’t done that everything would have gone differently. On the other hand we’ve seen in the Netherlands that in some cases the OM has shown to have a ‘tunnelvision’.
Witt.: Because they think this suspect has to be the one that did it. And in this case there maybe were a number of different things and you address them in your book, that had they not just been directed at Joran then other things could have been investigated. Has that been done in the mean time?
Paulus: No. On the contrary… Now that the judge has decided that Joran is no longer a suspect… The day after that the OM came with the statement that he remains the person that they’re interested in. After two and a half year wherein all possible coercive means were executed. I cannot understand that. At that point in time, after for two and a half year sticking to someones tail the OM should have come to the conclusion that this person is not only no longer a suspect but he must be considerd innocent as well.
Peter: Well if you come up with these kind of theories I am very glad that you didn’t manage to become a judge!
Witt.: When you had two and a half year of investigation…
(Unintelligible.)
Joran: And it has cost over 10 million dollars… They did all kinds of things… Searches, experts, airplanes…
Pauw: What should according to you be investigated that hasn’t been investigated yet?
Paulus: Well, what actually is very strange is that there has never been made a clear profile of the girl. What kind of a girl was she? Which contacts had that girl? I never saw anywhere something very simple, that the computer of the girl was looked into. I never saw that the family of the girl was investigated. Her friends… So actually where you have to start any investigation, the people that are closest to the victim has never been done!?
Peter: You forget the people she was last seen with….
Witt.: Yes I wanted to say that as well… You begin off course with the people she was last seen with. But your suggestion what could that mean.., when you look into her surroundings? What doing so, could possibly be found about what happened on that beach?
Anita: (Edited) We know people were seen at the beach, her room-card was used, there are people who claim they have seen Natalee the day after she went missing…
Witt.: There’s a statement by a cashier who says she first saw Natalee with a man who a short time later she saw without the girl. Has there been no proper investigation into these facts?
Paulus: Well it’s even stronger… There is a videorecording supposedly of Natalee but we untill now haven’t had access to that video.
Anita: (Edited) That’s a video of the entrance of the Holliday inn… And there was something strange with the first posters that Beth Twitty hung up. It read “Little Hoody please call Big Hoody” which suggests Natalee ran away. Anyway, I was under the impression that there was another story that I gladly would have seen investigated.
Witt.: Well this is Natalee’s mother who some percieved being rather fanatic… (Clip of Beth.)
Witt.: Are you in contact with this woman?
Paulus: Our first contact with her was in the beginning… We several times had asked the police if we could get in contact with the family. The police didn’t think that was such a good idea. But some time later she showed up at our door and I invited her in. And there we had a conversation which was VERY intense. I sat with open arms there because we had a lot of sympathie for the situation she was in. And we wanted her to know that.
Anita: We felt that was very difficult… That was a very difficult moment.
Witt.: Did you keep in contact with her? She wanted to come back the next day but didn’t. She did send a television-reporter but she went to the police and gave her account of the conversation.
One more piece of text to come… Tomorrow!
After the segments EURobbert translated, Joran apparently lost it and trew wine in Peters face.
(This happened after the show was taped, of camera) It’s reported on most of the Dutch news sites… google keywords: joran peter wijn…
Thanks for your comments, Disgusted Mom. I think that in the judgeship, as with everything else in Aruba, there’s a lot more than we know, and that isn’t coming out.
And we are all in debt to EURobert. These transcripts are so incredible … the van der Sloots don’t even seem to realize how sleazy they sound. Notice that Paulus, or Anita, is trying to point the finger at Natalee … why hasn’t she been investigated?
I hope that something heavy falls on them. These transcripts show that they are rotten to the core.
Beyond abysmal.
And yet another reason to boycott Aruba … that scum like these were respected.
Can de Vries sue Joran for assault with that wine business?
Lovely.,… now they are telling them to look at the victim and her family and friends.. These people are pathetic.. Who left Carlos N Charlies with Natalee?? 1. her family 2. her friends 3. Joran, Deepak and Satish.. hurry, hurry before the buzzer Sloots.. Who was the last people Natalee was seen with and she was never seen again 1. her family in the U.S. 2. her friends 3. Joran, Deepak and Satish.. Think real hard Sloots.. If they have proof that Natalee is alive bring it on… why didn’t they bring it on when Joran was in jail for days being questioned.. These people are so pathetic..
Here’s a basic question for PvdS: Why did you allow your son to gamble and drink at an Aruban casino when he WAS UNDER AGE?
But there are so many more questions that could be asked … and I’ll bet that you van der Scum animals won’t be on TV anytime again soon.
Maggie, can we imagine that perhaps PvdS “took care” of Natalee, and that it wasn’t divulged to J2K what was done with her body … or, perhaps, even if she were still alive?
If YOU were PvdS, would you tell your worthless cockroach of a son these details? I wouldn’t.
{{edit}} I am so tired of listening to them. Pretty soon they will be saying Natalee killed herself and hid herself afterward and “framed” darling innocent Joran in the pram so sweet.
{{edit}}
Last piece of the Pauw en Witteman interview; guests: Peter R. de Vries and the family Crook!
Pauw: One thing we may still have time for. When we started we showed that Peter tried to get in contact with you (Joran) and you Peter held something in your hand namely a picture. Let’s watch for a second… Or do you have it with you?
Peter: Yes coincedently I have this picture with me (LOL)… It’s this picture… it’s a picture..
Pauw: Can you… You are experienced in this Peter… You know how to do this… Peter: (Shows photoshopped picture of Natalee and Joran in camera.) On that picture we can see.. It was taken at Natalee’s home. And apparrently it has Joran with Natalee on it. And that off course is impossible because they have never met there. And this is a picture that was made with Joran knowing it and maybe even photoshopped FOR Joran where the impression (of them being there together) willingly and knowingly was made. And then you wonder…. Well let’s say I don’t see very much sense of sympathy in there. If you do that knowing that the girl is still missing, her mother desperate, you saying you have nothing to do with it and at the same time making this kind of photoshop-humor…
Pauw: Where did you get this picture?
Peter: It was played into my hands by someone who was involved in this.
Pauw: Joran you recognize that picture?
Joran: I know that picture yes.
Pauw: You write about it in your book as well. What’s the idea behind that picture?
Joran: Yes… I didn’t do it myself but it has off course been a joke. Yes it was a joke actually. And now you (looking at Peter) bring that up this way it indeed looks very strange… But the only way to get through all this is to sometimes make jokes about it. Because for me this whole thing often is ridiculus.
Peter: Making fun about the victim?
Witt.: Who photoshopped this picture?
Joran: Yes… That is not important… I won’t mention any names here…
Witt.: But not you?
Joran: Not not by me.
Witt.: So it was sent to you…
Joran: Yes…
Witt: … over the internet or something like that?
Joran: Yes, I got it from someone I know and it was…
Peter: And he (the other guy) even was payed for that… to do that…
Witt.: By…?
Joran: (Lifts shoulders… Questioning facial expression…)
Peter: Yes… By…. He may say that…
Witt.: By you?
Joran: No! (Looking at Peter) Where did you get that idea?
Peter: Well it was mentioned in the email in which I got the picture.
(Unintelligible.)
Anita: But that person is not here at the table… We can’t ask him if it’s true what he said!?
Peter: But I think you can believe me on my word missis / mam. (LOL)
Witt.: When you’re a psychologist or play one… Somebody who killed that girl won’t fabricate a picture like that.
Peter: Well… I don’t know where you studied psychology (LOL) but …
Witt.: Just common sense…. But there are limits to the way you deal with a victim of a disappearance…
Peter: Well that’s something you can’t hold up like that…
Witt.: It’s exactly the same as you do in your…
Peter: There are very gruesome examples of people who did thing and neither afterwards sympathy with their victims…
Pauw: Okay… We’re going to conclude our conversation at the table here… What would you still want to happen in this case?
Anita: I would want that the investigation would continue… Maybe Peter can help with that… Maybe we can talk after the show… Uuhhmm… I would as well very much would see an investigation into the investigation… I don’t know if we can have that hope but that… As long as this case isn’t solved all concerned will stay under enormous pressure and Joran will continually be pointed at (Edited).
Witt.: Do you think she’s dead?
Anita: I… don’t know. I have for a very long time kept believing she was still alive and I have being played information in my hands that supports that a.o. from Renée Gielen (Edited). I would so gladly see that the other side of the story was shown as well.
Witt.: Do you think she’s dead?
Paulus: I don’t think she’s dead. I think the chance she’s still alive may be very well there.
Witt.: Do you think she’s dead?
Joran: (Smug faced) I have doubts… I think that when a person is missing for three years… That you are a very bad person seeing what is all happening, and you (meaning Natalee) still don’t come forward yourself to state you’re still alive. Or… or… If she’s still alive I think she’s held against her will…
Witt.: … held in captivity…
Joran: Yes, held in captivity.
Witt.: You will continue your study in The Netherlands… And your mother says you keep walking with this case on your shoulders… Do you agree with that?
Joran: Yes… I myself try my best to not be busy with this in my daily life…
Witt.: And that goes well?
Joran: Yes that goes OK… But it’s off cours still something you always carry with you and things have happened… I off course have spent eventually 116 days in prison in Araba… and that are all things you don’t forget so easilly. All those things were no pleasure…
Anita: … Of which I say…. A part of his imprisonment was just… because of his lies…
Witt.: We very much appreciated you wanted to come in our show. That goes for Peter R. de Vries as well… Peter have you do you think by now had enough of this case? Or will you continue to investigate…
Peter: No, this case is not over yet… I understand they would want that but as long as Natalee has not been found this case for me is not over…
Pauw: We just heard Anita say that she wants the investigation to continue…?
Anita: We want it to continue…
Anita & Peter: (Unintelligible.)
Witt.: Will you now cooperate?
Peter: Well I would gladly hear what they want… and what information they have to offer…
Joran: And if there ever will be clearity in what happened and it turns out you were wrong after all will you than apologize to me? Are you man enough for that?
Peter: What do you think?
Joran: I don’t think so.
Peter: No???!!!
(LOL)
Witt.: Well so we eventually have a great ending to this show…
Pauw: Okay we’ll agree that that happens on this table if it happens… And uh… Thanks and strength… We will report…
Have a good Sunday you all!
I posted an article about the wine tossing on a thread that is higher up.
EURobert:
Thank you for taking the time from your schedule to post the transcript in English.
It is appreciated.
Waterboy: I can’t find anything on Gomez and Rene.
Hodges fan;
I just finished his book.
Now I know why they had lynchings.
I think they are all ready to break.
Trying to find the prybar to do it with. Maybe the Persistence will.
Reading Dr.Hodges book you cannot come up with any other conclusion that what happened to Natalee’s investigation was a cover up from on high and it was all for tourism. Based on his book; it was definitely kidnapping and pre meditated rape and murder, not to mention illegal disposing of a body. That is why they can’t bring them to trial; all would be on the table and tourism is up the creek.
But they played it wrong.
Had there been a swift conclusion and conviction, I would guess that within a year everything would have been back to normal. Now all the dirty laundry is hanging on the line and there is no place to hide it.
It is almost two and one half years and the suspects and the father remain free.
We are a very large group that have made a promise to Natalee.
Paybacks are coming Aruba.
“You ain’t seen nothin’ yet”!!!!
well, paul is gone waiting his judgement with god
who’s next, mommie and then the deepak and brother and all the others that know, and there are several, joran, runs his mouth so let him do his drugs it will come out,daddys buried now, with info. he had that could have relieved the holloways, so we know he ISNT resting in Peace, and i am sure Natalee is at the table GOD says he will place you at IN THE PRESENCE OF YOUR ENEMIES,HELLO??????? AND FOR THE ARUBANS THAT WRITE HOW come here body hasnt washed up like all the other drowning victims, cause she didnt drown (stupid) she was murdered, and the old judge aka,dead-daddy now, HE KNEW IN THE LINE OF WORK HE WAS IN, WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO WITH THE BODY, U KNOW THAT FOR SURE, BUT, THERES COMING A DAY AND I WOULD RATHER SPEND ALL MY TIME IN A PRISON ON THIS EARTH THAN A DAY-IN-HELL IN THE NEXT LIFE WITH OLD SATAN HIMSELF, SORRY PAUL, YOU MADE YOUR BED YOU HAVE TO LIE IN IT THRU ETERNITY,BUT, NOT TO WORRY YOU HAVE SEVERAL MORE JOINING YOU THERE, FAMILY MEMBERS AND YOUR VERY CLOSE-KNIT FRIENDS AND MAYBE MOMMY DEAREST, NOT TO MENTION, YOUR SWEETIE-PIE JORAN, HE WILL BE LIKE YOU WERE FATHER/SON CONNECTION, SO BE LOOKING FOR HIM DOWN THERE, AND FOR THE HOLLOWAY FAMILY ,OUR HEARTS ARE BROKEN THAT A GROWN MAN COULDNT GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS IN WHICH HE HAD BEFORE LEAVING HERE, HE WAS VERY SELFISH ,SELF-CENTERED, ALL THE ABOVE, BUT, NATALEE IS SAFE AND THE DAY OF RECOKNING WILL COME AND OH WHAT A DAY THAT WILL BE FOR ALLOT OF US!!!!!!!!! ALTHOUGH,SHE SHOULD BE HERE
GOD KNOWS BEST ,SURE SOUNDS OPPOSITE BUT, WE KNOW HE DOES,AND HE TOOK THIS FATHER HUSBAND AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL THE REST OF THEM TOO, I ASSURE YOU OF THAT, IN HIS TIMING!! I THINK GOD IS AS SICK OF PUTTING UP WITH THEM LOW-LIFES AS WE ALL ARE, WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST ,AND SO, SHE IS LIKE A SISTER TO ME, SO DONT MESS WITH THE FAMILY, MY PRAYER IS BEFORE THE YEARS UP, GOD WILL TAKE EM ALL OUT SO FESS UP BIG GUYS, SAVE YOUR OWN SOULS!!!!!