RSSJoran Van der Sloot back in Aruba and Back in Court Today in Front of a Judge regarding New Evidence
What about Natalee Holloway’s life?
“He has just got his life together. This arrest has now undone that like a bolt from the blue.”
Suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, Joran Van der Sloot, is back in 
front of a judge this morning regarding the new evidence that has lead to his arrest. Updates will follow during the day. Joran Van der Sloot’s lawyer, L. van den Eeden, states that his client was just trying to get his life back together and these events have undone those efforts. Cry us a river as maybe the fact that Beth Holloway and Dave Holloway’s life as well as their entire family’s life has been undone. What about Natalee Holloway’s life? Think her life has not been undone?
According to lawyer L. van den Eeden, who represented Joran van der Sloot in the Netherlands, his client was very emotional before departure to Aruba. “He has just got his life together. This arrest has now undone that like a bolt from the blue.” Joran will be taken before the examining magistrate this coming Monday.
Joran Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe’s will finally have to answer for their actions, “Justice for Natalee”.
UPDATE I: Judge has ruled Joran to remain in jail 8 days
Amigoe: Joran back in Aruba via short cut
ORANJESTAD — Joran van der Sloot, the 20-year old suspect in the Natalee Holloway-case, has arrived in Aruba yesterday evening around 23:00. He was taken to jail about 30 minutes later.
Contrary to what the international media mentioned earlier, Van der Sloot didn’t arrive with KLM, but with DAE. For some yet unknown reasons, they made a stop in Curacao. A photographer of Fox News took a picture of this.
After Van der Sloot arrived, three armoured private cars drove through a side-entrance of the airport and speeded up along onrushing journalists, towards Cumana. According to security personnel, that was most probably a diversion, because not even ten minutes later, a jeep, in which the suspect must have really been, drove through a gate. That vehicle drove in the direction of the KIA prison. Most of the journalists were already gone at that time and have not seen the jeep.
According to lawyer L. van den Eeden, who represented Joran van der Sloot in the Netherlands, his client was very emotional before departure to Aruba. “He has just got his life together. This arrest has now undone that like a bolt from the blue.” Joran will be taken before the examining magistrate this coming Monday. His mother, Anita, who lives in Aruba, has meanwhile indicated that the investigators have recently interrogated her family and that of the Kalpoe suspects. “It is ridiculous that they do this again after two-and-a-half years”, she told the American press office AP yesterday.
Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were taken before the examining magistrate yesterday afternoon. That took place at a for everybody secret location, which turned out to be the police station in San Nicolas, where, according to rumours, one of the brothers is in custody. The other brother is supposedly in a police cell of the police station in Noord. The examining magistrate decided yesterday afternoon to prolong the custody of the brothers with eight days.
Posted November 26, 2007 by Scared Monkeys Aruba, Beth Holloway, Crime, Dave Holloway, Joran Van der Sloot, Judicial, Missing Persons, Natalee Holloway | 156 comments |
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156 Responses to “Joran Van der Sloot back in Aruba and Back in Court Today in Front of a Judge regarding New Evidence”
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Does Anita know that her sons had always been a suspect. If I recall, he was never dropped as a suspect. So why all the whining about after two and a half years?
If Urin is so innocent…why the tears? Is he holding his favorite pillow and blanket? He better be as I feel he’ll need them in JAIL.
The nerve of Joran’s lawyer, L. van den Eeden, to say that Joran has just got his life together! What about Natalee’s life, Mr. van den Eeden? Joran said he will tell what happened that night when the time is right so we know he is keeping things to himself. The time is right now.
Anita, perhaps this will go on for years each time a new piece of evidence is uncovered. Joran even brought attention to himself by writing his despicable book where he writes about preying on vacationers. In his twisted mind he feels that American girls are just waiting for him. Why don’t you tell your sporter to be a man and tell the prosecutor just what happened that night? IMO a deal will most likely be struck so your Baby Huey won’t have to do much time at all but the family will have some type of closure. Joran, be a man! This is the time to tell all.
Justice for Natalee Holloway!
Kris#3- he cant be a man and will never be a man. He doesnt know how..cause there were no real men on that volcanic ashe…maybe now there is in Mos, time will tell. May all the ppl involved in the cover up, which even Jossy is now saying it was massive,die of the creeping crud. Anita needs to keep her big FAT lying mouth shut. She brings new meaning to the word STUPID. her poor little sporter. I wish I could go there and LAUGH at the arrogant pig as he is brought to the court house.
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE.
Please, please, please! Those of you holding out ANY hope Urin could EVER “be a man” and fess up to what he did to Natalee and dozens of other tourist girls need to understand one thing and one thing only.
Joran is a SOCIOPATH. He (in his mind) cannot EVER be guilty of anything. He is perfect in his own eyes and that’s all there is to it. If Natalee died…well, it was “her fault” and he should be free to continue his wonderful life. Wasn’t she just a tourist girl he felt is was OK to leave on the beach alone? Riiiiight.
This miserable waste of human flesh will not bend, talk, admit…nothing. As for “telling what really happened when the time is right”…oh please give me a barf bag! He is simply still working out the details of the perfect lie.
Only way we will get the truth is for K2s or others directly involved to speak out. I do hope K2s are only puppets and not sociopaths as well. If so…they will be certain to take Joran down with them. If only it were to the bottom of the sea……. :>)
KrisG,
A deal will be struck to not only minimize the Predator’s jail time, but also keep the real perp, PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT, from being prosecuted.
When Paulus goes down, Aruba goes down. No one will let this happen.
Hey KLPD…how is the building of Paulus’ timeline for the 24 hour period around Natalee’s murder going? Have you started this work…or are you following the ALE lead of just ignoring his timeline for the evening.
UNTIL PAULUS’ TIMELINE IS PRODUCED FOR THE NIGHT, THIS IS ALL A SHAM.
MD
Any news on a 4th. Arrest yet?
Sporter the rope is getting shorter.
This is just so ludicrous…he should get his life back together ??? What right does he have to gon on as planned with HIS life…Natalie does not have a life, that poor beautiful girl.
He was the last person to be with her…he needs to give answers..
He has NEVER, not from the beginning, shown an ounce of remorse and he has NEVER, not from the beginning, NOT had his life back together.
From the minute he was released (was it September of 2005?), he was back to partying and seducing young girls.
He’s trash that is about to be taken to the curb.
#7, I just read somewhere that there are more arrests coming out of Aruba – specifically Paulus. Anyone else hear anything like that?
____________________
SM: I believe local Alabama news reported there may be a 4th arrest. That arrest being Paulus is speculation. (klaasend)
Klaasend, Could be. I read it on Greta V.S.;s blog by a poster there…. Maybe that being Paulus is wishful thinking…
__________________
SM: I’m hoping it’s Paulus
I see Joran has stopped smirking.
Ahhhh—boo hoo–Joran was getting his life together.
(translation: He almost got away with it.)
I got news for you–Joran NEVER had his life together.
Drugging and raping girls. (see Dutch article).
Geez, Anita, aren’t you so proud of
your Sporter!
I’m with MD…as always. Unless they arrest and charge Paulus this is a sham.
No one get their hopes up for justice yet.
Let’s hope if the fourth arrest is true it is
PAULUS NO BODY NO CASE VDS.
Can we get our hopes up that papasweat will go down..or anita???whats the word fromthe dark side…anyone eating their words yet…they need to arrest the rest of the dutch elite and thier daddys…
J4N
I thought the same thing, he doesn’t look so smirky in that photo.
Memo to Anita…..if your son is innocent as you state, then you’ve got nothing to worry about, right, then wouldn’t you welcome and end to this?
You can only perfume a pig so much, then the true stank comes to the surface,
More Tacospin on Fox News this morning. He is still declaring Joran’s innocence..doesn’t believe the cell phone theory..thinks joran will be released..the deadline is coming so they felt they needed to do something.
No word of any other arrests in the pipeline but I sure hope there are several and that Perpus vanderS— is top of the list.
Paulus is not the only one that will be picked up. Ben Vocking too. Most likely he and some member of the Black Team helped with the disposal of the body.
I may be lost here but…. Joe Tacopina isn’t or has he ever been Joran’s layer for his criminal cases, right? Also – he’s not a lawyer in Aruba so he probably knows nothing about Aruban law, right?? Why do people keep having him on TV?
Blah, blah, blah. Joe T. is a paid mouth.
If Joe T. wasn’t being paid by the VDS (or someone paying on their behalf), he would be saying the EXACT OPPOSITE.
Saw on Fox News that it will be about 2pm Eastern time when Joran appears in court in Aruba.
For something that is nothing, Joe T sure has been on tv a lot and why would he go to Aruba if it’s nothing? He isn’t even licensed to practice in Aruba or to be Joran’s attorney there. Would really love to know who pays for all these attorneys.
I remember when Dompig said Joran almost cracked. IMO Joran is a sick person waiting to happen. If he is not sentenced, it will happen again. I love that finally they put out that, they have drugged and raped girls before. 3 guys don’t go out at closing time to pick up ONE intoxicated girl to take her sight seeing and then leave her on a beach to see stars at 3am, never to be seen again. One has to do flip-flops to believe their convuluted stories.
As for Human Rights. Someone should remind Anita it was her son that implicated 2 black men for the crime of murder and kidnapping. They were woke up at dawn, searched and locked up, unlike her son. Straten went to Paulus and said bring your son in for questioning. Mickey Johns words, used like a scape goat.
I hope they ask what Deepak meant when he told John Croes in a chat message, that Natalee put her hands down his pants. He said he did it to throw an investigation off, it wasn’t even known Natalee was missing yet and no investigation going on. The circumstantial evidence in this case is overwhelming.
#19 – Again at the risk of showing my ignorance – who is Ben Vocking?
#22 Justice, you are exactly right.
Let’s hope next the KLPD do an internal investigation of Dompig, Straten, Paulus, Jacobs, Rudy Croes, ODuber, Marianne Croes, Steve Cohen, Arlene Shippers, Julia Renfro, Angela Muzzle, the AHATA, to name just a few, at the blatant lies put out about a victim and her family, conflicts of interest and unprofessional conduct.
Nevermind! I had forgotten this was his name until he changed it to Ben King. thanks!
Joe T. became JvdS’s lawyer in the US suit for the media exposure and he has just continued to enjoy the fringe benefits. He is not Joran’s lawyer in the current legal proceedings and when he says that if JvdS is indicted he’ll be down in Aruba as part of the defense team, he’s BSing, because he doesn’t have the Aruban (or Dutch?) exequatur, which means he can’t practice there.
JVDS has the same type of personality that Drew Peterson has. His wife has been missing for over 3 weeks, Never has went out to look for her. Never saw her leave, but keeps saying she ran away with another man, so he’s not going to look for her. Loves the camera and comes out making jokes and laughing. Clearly not the behaviour of someone who’s wife is missing and her 2 small children are motherless. He said oh the kids are doing great.. Sure they are, they don’t have a mom now. This was reported today on Greta about Drew..
Drew’s privacy may be shot, but another indication today that it appears as if his sense of humor is intact.
As they are pulling out of driveway , Drew rolls down the window and says to a heavy-set newspaper photographer, “You’re going to give yourself a heart attack, you gotta lose some a few pounds buddy… unbelievable. ”
Car pulls away – drives off.
Another sociopath on the loose.
Earth to Anita- People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.
People who are guilty as hell lie repeatedly.
Sound like anybody you know?
Nevermind, lying seems to run in the family, doesn’t it?
POOR, POOR, POOR, POOR, POOR PITIFUL URINE
NOT!!!!!!!
I wonder if he (urine pee-pee boy) and the “Alpoe” (arf, arf) brothers feel the noose tightening around they necks?
Anita is a sickening, sleezy, stinky, fat, disgusting grosteque PIG!!!! What’s truly “RIDICULOUS” is her making stupid remarks, acting like her son is guilty of nothing and played no part in Natalee’s disappearance…YEAH, RIGHT!!
BOYCOTT ARUBA AND HOLLAND TIL HELL FREEZES OVER!!
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
Kevin, here is the story about Ben King aka Vocking.
Ben King: Poor Judgement Or Cover-Up in Natalee Holloway Case
The habitual impartiality has been demonstrated in the past with several cases, one case in particular stands out. The case of Alexander Mathew against a Dutch government official, Ben Vocking whom now goes by the name of Ben King .
In this particular case documents disappeared, forensic reports were over looked and witnesses were denied, these documents were in the favor of Alexander Mathew. Paul van der Sloot is a high ranking official in the judicial system and is close friends with Ben King, whom now works at the prosecution office. King was reportedly seen visiting Paul van der Sloot at his home when the Arubian police were performing a search of the van der Sloot residence. Mathew’s entire case was tampered with.
King said that his friend Paul van der Sloot helped him in the Mathew case. How many cases has and will Paul van der Sloot help cover up?
However, I do find it curious that an official so close to the PM would 1) change his name and 2) exercise such poor judgment in the Natalee Holloway case that it now appears he has taken a vacation and, from all appearances, will continue to be of assistance or support to the Van der Sloot’s in some way.
An article I found in Dutch – scroll down to fifth article – looked curious, so I asked Begga from Hasibokos to translate.
Translation: The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor’s office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.
Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor’s office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.
Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry.
King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”
And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King.
Anitas lover boy looks bad doesn’t he!I hope they put the smuck to sleep for what he and the kalpals did to Natalee!!!
Nothing but a real re-enactment of the crime against Natalee by JVDS would be sufficient punishment. He needs to be treated the same exact way.
I want joran to feel exactly what Natalee did, and now feels.
Joran deserves nothing less.
Yeah, He looks pretty sad…
I’m not made of stone, nor are any of us here. This is a sad, sad situation for all the families. But, it’s hard to feel empathy for the ones that make their own misfortune. They all had choices, including all the Arawaks in Aruba, and, this is what they chose…
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1066.0
Like Gunslinger says:
If they don’t return our child of God,
we will leave them breathless.
.
Boycott Aruba!
Thanks, Maggie! I appreciate your taking the time to find the article about Ben King for me.
Poor little, defenseless Joran … what an injustice … being finally held responsible for his lies and actions. What an OUTRAGE! As if the life of an American means anything … and in the psychotic world of the van der Sloots, it doesn’t.
Wonder what will happen when/if they do bring in Paulus … what’s she going to say then?
All I know is … if I had kids in Aruba, they wouldn’t attend any school at which she taught.
Let’s remember something, folks … we don’t know how reliable is the information that has seeped out to the media so far. I imagine that we’ll know a lot more this afternoon.
But whatever the case, IF what we have been told so far is accurate, the “new evidence” seems to pertain only to J2K. Whatever Paulus may or may not have done, presumably nothing can be done about him until/unless more new evidence is brought forward.
I can’t say if all this is a cover-up or not. But it doesn’t make sense that the Dutch would be doing this as part of a cover-up, when all they would have to do is say, “Sorry … no new evidence … nothing more to do.”
This doesn’t mean that Paulus can’t be implicated in Natalee’s death, or in disposing of the body, or in something else. But the new evidence, apparently, has to be produced.
Is this a last-ditch effort to bring the three in for interrogation in hopes that someone will crack? Is it just a way of keeping the three suspects, suspects?
I don’t know. Have to see what happens. But let’s keep open the possibility that some of our ideas and theories might have been wrong.
Lest anybody misunderstand me, I’m not saying for a second that I think Paulus isn’t involved in at least the cover-up, and possibly more.
What I’m saying is … so far, the evidence that the prosecution seems to be citing has (in their view) justified the arrests of the original three suspects, and only them, in what is described as the voluntary homicide of Natalee Holloway.
So the implication is that at present, they don’t have anything involving others in THIS crime.
We’ll see.
By “anything,” of course, I mean anything new.
Caption in Telegraaf: Joran is NOT talking.
Acc. to prosecutor Mos (earlier), that would not be smart given the new circumstances.
An AP story I just saw said that Joran’s appearance in court today will be closed to the public.
__________________
SM: It’s my understanding the Judge will meet with Joran in KIA where he is currently detained. Yes, closed to the public. Only the suspect and their attorneys are allowed. (klaasend)
This interesting snippet comes from ABC, I think:
Without confirming the type of new evidence, Hans Mos, one of the prosecutors, says it is compelling. “We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now, they would not have been released by the court at that time.”
Prosecutor Dop Kruimel told The Associated Press that they are looking into phone calls, but would not say whether they are the basis for the new round of arrests.
“It’s part of the investigation,” he said. “We do everything we can to see what happened.”
Former Aruban prosecutor Helen Lejuez thinks if the wiretap report is true, the suspects may have assumed they were no longer being wiretapped.
“It’s a long time ago and people get relaxed and maybe start talking — things they haven’t said before, and prosecutors and police are sharp listeners,” said Lejuez, who is now an attorney working for the teen’s mother, Beth Holloway.
So Joran, your not looking so smirky these days. What’s going through that sick head of yours. Thought you were going to pull it off. It’s time to meet your maker.
I don’t see how Paulus cannot be implicated. The Kalpoes will probably take care of that. Especially Satish. We know he knows, something bad happened. And was coached by Paulus.
I hope this all brings a resolution to the case, answers for the family, justice for Natalee and criminal punishment for the guilty.
Yeah, what a matter Joran somebody step on your toe!!!!!
Arrest and charge Paulus and go from there. Until Paulus is arrested and charged, I won’t believe they are truly going to do bring justice.
I don’t think they will bring Paulus in though because if they do, the house of cards in Aruba will fall. They can’t have that. This is just a game…again.
BS! They have had sufficient evidence since the beginning. They got rid of the evidence, retracted admissions of guilt etc. I think as usual, they are blowing smoke up our as*.
Arrest and charge Paulus and let the house of cards fall.
Aruba, if TRUE justice is actually given, perhaps you will gain a little respect and / or trust which may bring back tourists.
After reading Joran’s book, Deepak’s statements and the MBHS students’ statements; Dave’s book and Beth’s book; it is my opinion that Natalee was not the primary target at C and C’s.
After I got some of the facts laid out; the confusion of who was who and who was with who and who was gambling; my humble opinion points to Ruth being the primary target; not Natalee.
I feel it was a rape/robbery crime that went wrong and Dennis Jacobs is somehow tied into this as a major player along with Van der Straaten and Paulus knowing who or where Natalee was disposed.
We may yet in fact see the house of cards fall.
Paulus has no cards left to play.
I am not sure they can arrest Paulus. This is part of my biggest beef regarding the cover-up that took place.
Karin Janssen issued a letter that stated that there was no evidence to have Paulus considered a suspect. The courts used that letter to legally add a layer to the onion and state that Paulus should not be considered a suspect. The courts added an additional layer when they issued a $30,000 payment for ‘false arrest’.
The courts did have enough of his crap when he appealed for more money and denied additional compensation. But what the courts have effectively done is added two layers in the way of getting at Paulus. They intentionally distanced him from the crime so that he could not be brought in or considered a suspect.
Perhaps Rammstein can give us a primer on Dutch Law – Aruban Style. Can Paulus be arrested and charged on a crime that he has already been cleared of? In the USA, that is called Double Jeopardy and Paulus would be in the clear.
That is why Paulus must fry…but I will be very interested to see what charges are brought seeing that he was protected by his close friends in the prosecutors office and the courtrooms.
md
Even with the Media there, Aruba still lacks tourists.
http://www.bucuticam.com/index.html
Didn’t the Aruban court decree that Paulus vdS was no longer (under their law) a suspect in Natalee’s case? That was the basis for his lawsuit, as I recall.
I would think, though, that new evidence would allow his re-arrest. Who knows on Aruba?
Obviously, we don’t know how much they have on the three. Let’s hope that what they do have will allow them to grill them thoroughly.
If any or all of the three “go down,” certainly the Kalpoes won’t shield Paulus. Why would they?
I don’t think that what is going on now is a sham. Where it will end up? Who can say….
Didn’t think about it that way MD. You are correct, it may be double jeopardy. However, he was never formally charged. He was just taken off the suspect list. Who knows with Aruban laws. They make up laws / Rules as they go along.
I meant Paulus was never convicted…I didn’t mean charged.
With all the games the Aruban officials have played, I can’t remember. Was Paulus ever prosecuted or convicted of crimes against Natalee? If so, which ones?
If not, they may not be able to play the double jeopardy card. Double jeopardy prohibits the act of prosecuting and / or convicting a person of the same crime twice.
PREMEDITATED MURDER:::
That was the charge which Karin Janssen arrested Paulus van der sloot on. The court in Aruba in one of it’s last decisions, seemed to agree.
The arrest of Paulus apparently came as a result of statements he has made recently to his wife and to the press that conflicted with previous statements he made to police. The conflict involved the timeline of events on the night the Alabama teen disappeared.
The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a tapped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The tapped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2007/07/aruba-depravity-of-paulus-van-der-sloot.html
Nobody is off the hook yet.
In Dutch Law there is a maximum of six months for data retention, if there is phone or e-mail taps that can be used to convict the perps it has to presented now.
Joran to be held 8 days. Fox reports.
8 more days of interrogations… He’ll crack!!!
This article, by CNN, came out today.
Something very interesting here: it suggests that the “new evidence” is NOT from recently tapped e-mails, text messages, etc., but rather is a “re-interpretation” of messages/e-mail on the night that Natalee vanished.
This is totally contrary to what we have been hearing so far. So I’m putting it here:
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) — A Dutch man who has been transferred from Netherlands to Aruba to face charges in the suspected death of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway will go before a judge in a closed hearing Monday afternoon.
Joran van der Sloot has denied involvement in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance. He faces a judge Monday.
The judge in the Caribbean island territory will determine if there is enough evidence against Joran van der Sloot, 20, to hold him for eight days, per Aruban law.
With a judge’s approval, suspects can be detained eight days while investigators develop their case.
Van der Sloot’s jail time began Wednesday, the day he and two other men were re-arrested in the case, which has been ongoing since Holloway’s disappearance in May 2005. Watch how the case is heating up »
The prosecutor’s office in Aruba says it will request van der Sloot be held for a second eight-day stretch.
Van der Sloot, the son of a judge in Aruba, was attending college in Netherlands when a Dutch court OK’d his transfer to Aruba, a Dutch territory, to face charges. He was flown Friday to Aruba with a police escort.
Van der Sloot was bitterly surprised by the charges, said one of his attorneys after the arrest.
Van der Sloot and two men from Suriname — brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 24, and Satish Kalpoe, 21 — were allegedly the last people seen with Holloway after she left a bar in Aruba. View a timeline of the case »
A judge in Aruba ruled Friday that authorities can continue to hold the Kalpoes for eight more days.
They are charged with “involvement in the voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway or causing serious bodily harm to Natalee Holloway, resulting in her death.”
Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes have maintained their innocence.
Aruba’s chief prosecutor said Friday that there is enough evidence to prove Natalee Holloway is dead — even if the Alabama teenager’s remains are never found.
“There’s no doubt in my mind that she’s dead,” said Hans Mos. “I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body.”
Mos further explained that Aruban law does not require a body to prove someone is dead “and any day that passes now is just more evidence that she is not alive anymore.”
Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were arrested in the case in 2005, but a court released them, citing insufficient evidence.
In the recent investigation, advanced techniques were used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos said.
Investigators also returned to the homes of the suspects to try to re-create transmissions.
The team also discovered that some existing evidence was improperly analyzed, Mos added.
When she disappeared, Holloway was on vacation with about 100 classmates celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook High School near Birmingham, Alabama.
Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes were the last people seen with Holloway as she left Carlos’n Charlie’s nightclub in Oranjestad, Aruba, about 1:30 a.m. on May 30, 2005. The men have maintained they had nothing to do with her disappearance. She has not been found.
Holloway’s high school group had planned to leave Aruba the next day, and Holloway’s packed bags and passport were found in her hotel room after she failed to show up for her flight.
The Kalpoes have told police they dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off near a lighthouse on the northern tip of the island after they left the nightclub.
Van der Sloot’s mother, Anita, has said her son told her he was on the beach with Holloway but left her there because she wanted to stay.
She said Friday she had no comment on her son’s latest arrest.
Holloway’s mother, Beth Holloway, said her ex-husband, Dave Holloway, has hired divers who will use sonar equipment from a benefactor to search for the girl’s remains in deep water surrounding the Caribbean island.
Aruba’s criminal justice system is based on Dutch law and the Napoleonic code, legal experts say.
In Aruba, authorities can make an arrest if they have reasonable suspicion that someone knows about or is involved in a crime. Magistrates investigate cases, and judges determine a suspect’s guilt or innocence. There are no jury trials
So what are these “advanced techniques” that were employed?
#47 – It’s my understanding that double jeapardy is where they cannot “try” you for the same crime. If there is new evidence or evidence that they has been interpreted differently (or whatever the case may be), I don’t see how PVDS can be protected from arrest or prosecution just because he was released as a suspect. Being released as a suspect shouldn’t prevent someone from ever bringing new evidence against you. Of course I don’t know anything about Aruban law. It just seems like common sense that being released as a suspect does not protect you forever.
CNN is not really on top of it, I think.
acc. to Mos it was a combinations of old and NEW evidence. Taps will show contradictions, I assume.
#61 – I think that is the case. There is new evidence (tapping) along with older evidence that has been re-evaluated/interpreted (cell phone calls/messages and who knows what else). The bottom line is the three suspects’ stories don’t jive. How can the investigation end when your suspects can’t come up with the same story?
Waving to my friend, da wench! I believe if “new evidence” presents itself and Paulus is implicated,he can be arrested again and the clock starts over.
So the new evidence is just a 12page mix-up of the old stuff with some tap transcriptions. That’s it…
(klaasend)
__________________
SM: Are you one of the defense attorneys? Guess the judge disagrees
there is nothing new. new interpretations means nothing. tapped call from Satish means nothing. 8 days, free room and board. NOTHING.
this good news for Greta, bad news for us….
That’s a good start! Greta has landed, so hopefully we will be getting some NEW news! Hope she hits the pavement running!
This is going to be a long grueling week for us waiting for some info… Hopefully the investigators use this time very wisely!
Klaas, speaking of judge. Who is the Judge?
Hey Joran
Here come the judge. Here come the judge.
Bad Boys Bad Boys whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
_____________
SM: Not sure who the judge was today, haven’t seen his name in print yet. (klaasend)
According to this article
( http://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/archives/buitenland/2007/11/geen_nieuw_bewijs_over_dood_ho.html )
the lawyers who represent the youngest of the Kalpoes are not amused! “The evidence is ridiculous.”, “Only at the end of the file there are some new tap-reports, but some 97% of the evidence is mixed up old evidence.”, “It’s illegal to use the same evidence twice to hold them in prison”, “It’s just a last attempt to prolongue the case beyond the promised 31st of December.”
They will go into appeal to this decission.
Dutch news-tv-show Nova says that after this 8 days it will be decided if the suspects can be hold for 60 more days. The strategy of the Publ. Pros. probably is to keep the 3 under big pressure, intensive interrogations, confront them with their contradictive statements.
Paulus until now has had no contact with Joran.
The Gag-order will stay in place the coming days.
What if he’s not guilty??? Everybody did already judged him
Here’s some old news mixed with new technologies:
The arrest of Paulus apparently came as a result of statements he has made recently to his wife and to the press that conflicted with previous statements he made to police. The conflict involved the timeline of events on the night the Alabama teen disappeared.
The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a tapped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The tapped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”
the judge is Tom the Bartender from Carlos and Charlies, and he said ‘everything is cool man.’
the Kalpoe brothers’ attorneys are way too relaxed. this does not look good. 8 more days is a professional courtesy to see how the suspects react to questioning regarding the newly interpreted ‘evidence’. perhaps they eluded that natalee is dead, perhaps their timeline is more distorted, it certainly doesnt mean they have a ‘smoking gun.’ without an admission or a location of evidence, they dont have a thing. the suspects will be cocky and quite because they have been well schooled. unless dave finds a lobster cage with natalees bones and Joran’s shoe, this thing is all but over. one last marry go round ride to let us americans know they tried, they really really tried. What a joke. boycott aruba forever. pave it for all i care.
Aruba has had enough of Greta, she is despised and is not being given a warm welcome. I am not sure the outcome of this last ditch effort will be what everyone is hoping for.
The jail in the picture where sporter is being held looks like a nice grim place..lots of wire, probably no a/c..bet the food isn’t so hot either, and mommy and daddy can’t visit the little darling. I hope he rots in there for what he did to Natalee.
(klaasend)
Now Aruba bring on the rest of the arrests, we’re waiting.
____________________
SM: It’s not just the jail, it’s the PRISON
55. Martini. Thank you. We seem to have a problem understanding 2-year deadlines, year-end deadlines. Our media sure doesn’t help. This explains why they would need to move forward by a certain time even though the 12-31 deadline is reportedly self-imposed.
I sure hope that the Dutch have been able to uncover enough to nail these guys and at least some of those who destroyed evidence, misinterpreted evidence, ignored evidence, so these perps could walk.
Joe Tacopina was hired by the Van der Sloots to defend Joran in any U.S. civil suits AND in the media. He’s getting paid to say that Van der Sloot is innocent, a victim of Holloways and Monkeys.
Aruba may have had enough of Greta but it seems tourists have had enough of Aruba.
The cowardly eunich men of Aruba display their misogyny again.
This has come up before, but we’ve never gotten an answer. Who pays Joe Tacopina and his partner/associate to defend Joran in the U.S. media? Who pays for his flights to and from Aruba along with his hotel and meals and cabs or car rentals? I don’t believe there are just some friends and supporters of the VDS family, everyday folks, making donations. I do believe there is some big money behind this. Follow the money.
“I Love it when a plan comes together”
….I sign on now each day to SM website to get updated on the latest scoop on Natalee Holloway’s Investigation.
Please, I pray we won’t all be disappointed again.
Anita VDS is so ignorant, her husband is a lying loser who did not set a good example for her own son who obvioulsy follows in Dad’s footsteps. DUH, Anita?!?!? How ridiculous is it that you live your life with your head up your ass? As far as the Kalpoes mother goes, too- she has buried her head in the sand. Everyone here needs to face up to the reality that they contributed to taking sexual advantage of this young girl, then also manslaughter. In my mind–it could have all been prevented and EVERYONE involved should be now paying the price and then some. Very unjust that it’s had to go this long without proper penalties and prison time served. These people got to go out and live their life while a family got destroyed and was left to hang in the balance without a loved one, and without true answers to all their questions.
Thanks again SM for keeping this story in the limelight!
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE !!!!!!!!!!
@Dave the A-Team? hehehe
@LilPuma – i think it’s a no cure no pay case and the will suing Dr. Phil .-)
(klaasend)
_________________
SM: Actually, Dr. Phil has asked that the case be dismissed and that K2′s pay the Dr. Phil legal fees. Right now things aren’t looking too good for K2
If there is a “gag” (good word to use when discussing this group of people) order on this, how can the Kalpoes lawyers come out and tell what the evidence is etc.? Send Beth, Jug and a few others down there to interrogate them. Jug had this figured out the first week. Yes, Mr Koch, Let Deepak explain the girl he called to give him an false alibi after it was announced they were all three seen in a car parked along the road that night.
LiLPuma, someone that has money or JoeT wouldn’t be on it. Remember he was doing it pro bono and then proceeded to take donations to pay him.
I think it is a simple matter,,,Joran went out on his usual predator movement…which he has done 20 times before. That is 21st victim that he has admitted too. Natalee did nothing wrong. Although, according to the Joran and the Kalpoes, they had nothing more to say than smut! Your predators of the island…and abuse the American’s. A disgrace to the island of Aruba and the American people.
I just heard something that one of the K brother went back to the beach that night.. is that true???
Joe T is a dooofus, he defended a lady that was recently convicted of cutting up her hubby and placing the parts in three pieces of their matching luggage…DUH
As far as the recent arrests, lets all pray hard that this is it and they will be convicted.
If nothing happens lets all go down there and whoop some butt! I really feel like I would like to personally bash these guys heads in.
Joran did it, along with help of the Kalpoes…They have done this before but never resulted in death..This time it did…they are all guilty
@brie guilty of what?
I’m praying for Natalee’s truth,
not revelling in the words of liars.
.
Patti
I would say Posner pays Jorans lawyer. @$#^head is a mafia lawyer, that is Taco does mafia lawyer work keeping scum out of jail. Who else would hire an American but another American to run damage control here. You tell me the connection. This is all smoke and mirrors again, it will be another suicide(arms,legs cut off,burned,head chopped off,) with confession note from crack addict. This would fit from what I have seen from their past.
So Anita, you describe Natalee’s underwear..so just where did this happen? Your a mouth that needs justification..don’t discrete Natalee, take a good look at your delicious sporter. Natalee did nothing wrong..
Wake up, your son is a rapist, sick and demented…but you already knew that…and you allowed him to be be the monster is is today.
Any new arrests?
_____________________
SM: There is a rumor Steve Croes has been re-arrested but we are waiting to confirm (klaasend)
I used to post here back in 05 when Natalee first went missing…was present when Shango posted etc etc…I just want to say that this rollercoaster of events drives me NUTS! I cannot imagine how Beth must feel! I hope in the end they will reveal all they have found in their investigations. Regardless of what happens after these 8 days are up…JUSTICE WILL prevail. Like someone else mentioned, look at OJ-it comes around and bites you when you aren’t looking. I can’t *imagine* living the rest of my life living among a society that knows I killed an innocent girl-accident or not. I plead with anyone who knows anything to-COME CLEAN, COME CLEAN! Let your conscience rest…justice will come and get you one way or another. I would think that Joran would rather be in jail among fellow monsters and blend in. He may be able to find some solace in seeing that maybe, just maybe there are some people even more warped than himself. Sociopath or not, his guilt will eat him alive. My prayer is that SOMEHOW the truth will be validated so that the Twitty’s can have closure…what a nightmare for everyone. So sick of the ridiculous circus they call an investigation…pray for the truth to be validated and put the liars in jail. Surely there will there be a civil case?
#59
Paying attention and reading comprehension.
Finally some words of wisedom.. I’m just getting tired of people judging without knowing the exact facts
Awa, please pull your head out of your {fill in the blank}.
Awa:
At one time Joran said that he was picked up at
the beach by the Kalpoes, but they always denied
it.
Now we know that Paulus was the one that picked up
Joran and according to his statement Natalee, as
well. He said he dropped her off at her hotel,
which we know is a lie.
So, in my opinion, the Kalpoes dropped Natalee and
Joran off near the end of he Marriott and left.
There is no evidence that they returned.
However there are eyewitnesses who say that they
saw a white Suzuki Jeep/Truck at the Fisherman’s
Huts, the night the cage was stolen. And there
are witnesses that say that they saw three men
placing a girl in the back of a white pick-up
near the Marriott. GVC owns a white pick-up.
The cell phone records indicate that Joran called
the Kalpoes and his father around 3am. His father
immediately went on the internet looking up anti-
dotes, while the Kalpoes cleaned out their car.
Cell phone records also indicate that Steve Croes
was also in the area as was his grandfather,
Charles Croes. Paulus stopped at the ATM to make a withdrawal at the Mc Donalds at around 4am.
Steve Croes asked that Deepak log on the
computer, as him, to give him an alibi, which
he did. And the next morning, Satish, woke
up to ask, “How’s the girl?”
And that is the last that anyone saw of Natalee
until the Chicago Videos. IMO
____________________
SM: Since when is Steve Croes related to Charles Croes? I don’t think that’s true (klaasend)
I assume Tacopina is doing this probono in exchange for TV time. The airtime he gets is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertising/promoting his name and business.
My question – which may be much more revealing than the Joran lawyer question in terms of suggesting guilt – is this:
Who is paying for the Kalpoes defense? Two lawyers now? Their bill must be in the hundreds of thousands by now… and Deepak, Satish and their mom certainly don’t have that kind of bread…
If it’s Paulus, as was suggested in 2005 – then I would love to know why he feels compelled to pay for their defense…
Anyone know for sure?
PS – I was a frequent poster here back in ’05 as well…
I’m sorry, Klaas….
I thought that he was the father of Rudy Croes.
So they aren’t related at all?
Is it true, however, that his cell phone was
detected in the area of the Marriott in the wee
hours of the morning?
Charles is on of the Directors for the ATA, right?
_________________________________________________
Funny, I was going to add to my comment:
Klaas, Correct me if I’m wrong. And you did
anyway.
Hugs,
Patti
_________________________
SM: As far as I know Charles Croes is not one of the Directors of ATA but don’t hold me to that. Also, I don’t beleive Rudy Croes, Charles Croes or Steve Croes are related. (klaasend)
Patti nice stuff for a movie
So let’s wait for the trial and we will see…
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m defending nobody, it’s just that I’m not that kind of person accusing people without a fair trial
As one of the investigators who worked on Aruba and in the United States on this case, I have posted my analysis of the recent arrests on my website at http://www.hsleader.com .
I know this site has worked hard to keep the pressure on in this case. So, I wanted to share my thoughts with your readers.
Keep up the good work.
Does anyone know if Paulus is being allowed to slide in to see Joran under the pretense of being his lawyer?
Poor little Joran…. sissy crybaby!
He just got his life back together? What about Dave and Beth? Their lives will never be the same. Too bad Natalee did not have a chance to move on with her life, pursue her premed degree, get married, have children, etc….
Cry Joran……. cry me a river!
Klaas:
Steve Croes, arrested!!!!
Maybe this prosecutor is on the ball, after all.
.
Sorry, AWA:
The info I gave may have been incorrect. Charles Croes is not related to Steve Croes, but is the Director for the Aruba Tourism Association and
knew Natalee and her family before her disappearance. I’m certain of that.
Amen Brie!
She and Paulis spawned a demon. They never supervised him, let him run loose, condoned his bad behavior, Daddy always bailing him out with the local cops, Mommy bailing him out with school……. I hope he gets a long long sentence with a bunch of guys who, let’s say like young men.
Seems the prosecutors have nothing new. In the old files they found “new evidence”. Wonder how long J2K will be hold in jail. According to their lawyers not for long. Will turned out bad for Aruba if the boys are set free again. The lawyers of Kalpoes are almost sure the prosecutors will not detain their clients for a long period.
AWA:
If you don’t care and are not going to educate yourself to the facts of the case, then why are you here asking questions?
You make a person sorry for being nice.
————————————————–
Again, I am going to pray for Natalee’s truth,
Not revel in the lies perpetrated by the guilty
ones.
In the old files they found “new evidence”. Seems the prosecutors have nothing new. Wonder how long J2K will be hold in jail. According to their lawyers not for long. Will turned out bad for Aruba if the boys are set free again. The lawyers of Kalpoes are almost sure the prosecutors will not detain their clients for a long time.
Patti no problem… i see you are pretty up to date with the case
At the end it doesn’t interest me who and why he/she/they did it.
I just hope that her family can close as soon as possible this chapter
Who thinks Joran, his family and his dipstick lawyers will ever get that this story is NOT about Joran. It is about Natalee Holloway and her disappearance on Aruba at the hands of Joran, Deepak and Satish.
Was steve croes really arrested? And if so, isn’t it re-arrested?
_________________
SM: No confirmation on that. If he was arrested today it would be a re-arrest, yes. (klaasend)
Katablog:
It’s ALWAYS been for Natalee.
.
AWA:
They will close this chapter when they’re ready
to close. As it stands, their daughter is still
in Aruba and all that Aruba has given them is a
wild goose chase.
If you knew Natalee, you’d understand….
Good-night
Patti
p.s.
Boycott Aruba…
Even in your Dreams
#99 John
Thank you for the link to your web site. What % chance would you give that Joran and NH were not dropped off at the marriot beach?
thank you
gutfeeling
To the Dutch persecutors: “THE GIRL” has a NAME.
HER NAME IS NATALEE HOLLOWAY. Is there a reason that you can’t bring yourself to call her by HER NAME? Does the calling of this child by her name make the heinous savagery REAL for you?
The brutality goes on, along with the inhumane treatment of Natalee and her family.
DUTCH LAWS ARUBA STYLE:
– When you lie to police about what you did to a young missing child, and where you put her, that does not make you a “suspect”. It makes you a witness.
– When you happen to be Black and have absolutely nothing to do with a missing young child’s disappearance,and you have witnesses to prove it, that makes you a suspect.
– When you falsify information reported to police in an attempt to remove yourself from criminal conduct that involves you in the disappearance of a young missing child, that makes you a witness.
– When you falsely implicate two innocent black men of involvement in the disappearance of the child YOU WERE LAST SEEN LEADING AWAY INTO A CAR, that doesn’t make you a lying “witness”.
It just makes you a “witness”, and the innocent black men falsely accused by liars, become MURDER SUSPECTS.
– When you are the Black victim of lying witnesses who are never held accountable for their lies which lead to your false arrest, along with the torment they inflicted upon your family in having to watch a loved one be falsely accused, handcuffed, arrested, and perp walked into a jail cell, with their picture plastered everywhere under the prosecutor’s claim of there being a “cause for suspicion” to be applied to INNOCENT MEN being arrested on suspicion of murder, while LIARS are deemed “witnesses” to the public, and the liars proceed to ROAM FREELY ABOUT, DESTROYING EVIDENCE, …
….when innocent black men are falsely accused, arrested, detained, and interrogated under KNOWN USE OF FALSE “CAUSE FOR SUSPICION” OF CRIMES THAT INCLUDE MURDER, RAPE AND KIDNAPPING, for which no one in the police department or prosecutor’s office seems interested in confirming your alibis proving your innocence, while the REAL LYING “WITNESS” /SUSPECTS are being granted privileges by the very same police that allows killers to be aided in their cover up and their PLOT to destroy not only all traces of evidence,but all traces of the VICTIM, NATALEE – when such savagery is carried out, the words “racism” and “discrimination” can’t be used because according to the same individuals protecting the lying “witnesses”, “racism” and “discrimination” don’t exist in Aruba.
Apparently, neither does MURDER.
When killers inflict the most heinous, vicious acts of savagery upon a beautiful innocent family, and a young child with everything to hope for, the acts of savagery are only MURDER, RAPE and KIDNAPPING – when the FALSE USE OF “CAUSE FOR SUSPICION” is applied to innocent Black men.
When the suspects become the son of the wannabe Dutch judge and his pals, then, the charges change from MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE to “MANSLAUGHTER”.
– When police knowingly allow liars last EYE-WITNESSED in the presence of a NOW MISSING CHILD, liars whose statements not only conflict, but in fact are INCONSISTENT with one another, – when police allow such heinous characters to be released from any detainment, protected from any SEARCH and SEIZURE OF PROPERTY, mandated by LAW as per the standard of “CAUSE FOR SUSPICION”…
When Police officials allow such savagery, and CRIMINAL ACTS to go unquestioned, unchecked, unaccounted for, while knowingly HOLDING AND DETAINING TWO INNOCENT MEN – this is not deemed worthy of an investigation by the Dutch KPLD, because it will be called “botched job and mistakes and overlooking some details”, instead of WHAT it is: CRIMINAL COVER UP, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, HEINOUS DEPRAVED CONDUCT OF POLICE OFFICIALS WHO BY THEIR OWN CONDUCT BECOME CO-CONSPIRATORS IN MURDER, AND OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
– When the parent of a lying witness, who is in fact really a PRIME SUSPECT, engages in willful acts that not only cover up criminal conduct that his son engaged in, but that he himself engages in, while torturing a brutally victimized child’s family in the process, denying them of something as fundamental as THEIR RIGHT TO BURY THEIR MURDERED CHILD – … when such a hideous man engages in CONTAINING THE VICTIMIZED CHILD SO HER FAMILY CAN NEVER FIND HER, this is not deemed as an act of depravity constituting human rights violations, but rather, instead, more lies are spun to the public in order to depict this savagery as a case of a “MISSING PERSON”.
Natalee is NOT missing.
She was never “missing”, was she Dutch prosecutor?
She was CONTAINED and held HOSTAGE after being MURDERED. In the USA, we consider this: TERRORISM.
But now, the Dutch suddenly KNOW SHE IS DEAD, but they can’t seem to explain HOW SHE ENDED UP “MANSLAUGHTERED”, and NOT THE VICTIM OF MURDER that she once was when the fingers were FALSELY and hideously pointed at TWO INNOCENT BLACK MEN, who had witnesses to prove their innocence.
They can’t seem to explain how the innocent black men were accused of RAPE, KIDNAPPING and MURDER ONE, yet – when it comes to Joran, Deepak and Satish, the charge becomes: “MANSLAUGHTER”.
What happened to the KIDNAPPING?
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HEAVY BATTERY?
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MURDER ONE?
Are the Dutch now suddenly in a hurry for Natalee to be DEAD, in the way that DOMPIG was in a big hurry for her to be “in possession of drugs”?
Are they even capable of an investigation driven by integrity after what they have ALLOWED to be done to Natalee’s family, while the current prosecutor calls WHAT THEY DID – “THEIR TRUTHS”?
STOP THE HIDEOUS SLANDER OF THIS BRUTALLY VICTIMIZED CHILD, ARUBA! STOP ALL THE DEPRAVITY OF LIES.
END THIS SAVAGERY NOW.
WHO CONTAINED THE “DEAD” CHILD, ARUBA?
WHO CONTAINED NATALEE HOLLOWAY?
WHAT DO YOU CALL THE TAKING OF A CHILD WHO IS “SLIPPING IN AND OUT OF CONSIOUSNESS”?
Is it KIDNAPPING – when BLACK MEN are accused of this, but somehow it becomes “She wanted to be with them” – when the criminals involved in this child’s brutal murder, are the sons of the privileged in Aruba, who happen to not be Black?
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HER FAMILY’S TWO AND A HALF YEARS OF SUFFERING, AND TORMENT?
Who is responsible for her father being subjected to digging through Aruba’s landfills to search for his beloved child’s remains?
Who is responsible for the torment inflicted upon her mother while slandering this beautiful child and her mother with such indifference and depravity, it is nothing less than diabolical?
While you are at it, Dutch prosecutors, try following up on the June 9th revelations reported to the ALE officials in charge at the time, that your Chief Straaten was fully aware of on May 30, 2005:
FOX NEWS
June, 2005
John: He said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy’s father, they sit and made up the story.
VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?
JOHN: All of them. They made up…
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?
JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.
VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?
JOHN: Well, I don’t know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him.
~~~~~~~~~
DUTCH PROSECUTOR: Is there a reason why your knowledge of THE FATHER being INVOLVED was NEVER FOLLOWED UP ON, ACTED ON, AND INSTEAD, BURIED FROM PUBLIC SCRUTINY?
Does “THE FATHER” BEING INVOLVED – NOT CONSTITUTE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE?
DOES “THE FATHER” BEING INVOLVED – NOT CONSTITUTE MURDER ONE WITH INTENT TO OBSTRUCT EVIDENCE?
And your response, Aruba is to do what?
Make “THE FATHER” a “lawyer”? !!!
Does JUSTICE even exist in Aruba?
Dutch Prosectuor: is there a reason that you cannot NAME THE CONDUCT THAT INVOLVES OBSTRUCTING THE TRUTH FROM BEING TOLD?
You refer to such conduct that involves LYING, as being “THEIR TRUTH”?
HOW MANY TRUTHS ARE THERE, DUTCH PROSECUTOR, WHEN IT COMES TO EXAMINING THE VICTIMIZATION OF A BRUTALLY VICTIMIZED, MURDERED LITTLE GIRL?
WHY CAN’T YOU CALL WHAT THEY DID – A LIE, AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, HIDEOUS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT INVOLVED SUCH INDIFFERENCE, IT MARKS ALL OF THEM AS SOCIOPATHS?
IS THERE A REASON WHY YOU CAN’T BE HONEST IN NAMING WHAT THEY DID ( ALL OF THEM, FROM THE MURDERERS TO THE CO-CONSPIRATORS) – IS THERE A REASON WHY YOU CANNOT SUMMON THE WORDS OF INTEGRITY TO NAME WHAT THESE MONSTERS DID TO THIS BEAUTIFUL CHILD AND HER FAMILY?
How can there be an investigation for the purpose of pursuing THE TRUTH, and JUSTICE, in a place contaminated with INDIFFERENCE TO HUMAN SUFFERING, INDIFFERENCE TO CRIMINAL CONDUCT INFLICTED UPON AN INNOCENT TOURIST, INDIFFERENCE TO LIES, COVERUPS, DECEPTION, MALFEASANCE, DEPRAVITY, AND CORRUPTION?
Clean out the filth that contaminates the island, Dutch Prosecutor and NAME WHAT THEY DID TO THIS CHILD.
WHY CAN’T YOU CALL HER BY HER NAME?
IS IT FOR THE SAME REASON – THAT YOU CANNOT SUMMON THE INTEGRITY TO NAME WHAT THEY DID TO HER?
THE GIRL IS NATALEE HOLLOWAY.
AND HER FAMILY HAS SUFFERED FOR TWO AND A HALF YEARS UNDER YOUR WATCH, YOUR SAVAGERY, YOUR INDIFFERENCE TO THE CRUELTY INFLICTED UPON THEM.
SET THIS CHILD FREE WITH HER TRUTH!
END THE SAVAGERY, ARUBA.
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY AND HER FAMILY.
Stop tormenting this beautiful family.
LET THIS CHILD REST IN PEACE, IF YOU CAN FIND IT IN YOUR HEART TO RELEASE HER FROM THE SAVAGERY OF THE CONTAINMENT INFLICTED UPON HER AND HER FAMILY.
LET THIS CHILD BE DIGNIFIED WITH A BURIAL, ARUBA.
NATALEE’S TRUTH WILL NEVER BE AT PEACE, WE WILL NEVER BE AT PEACE, UNTIL HER TRUTH IS TOLD, AND YOU CAN BE ASSURED THAT MANY MORE WILL STAND UP TO TELL HER STORY, AND MAKE HER TRUTH KNOWN WITH – OR – WITHOUT YOUR HELP, ARUBA.
END THE SAVAGERY, ARUBA!
SET THIS CHILD’S TRUTH FREE!
Honor Natalee by honoring her right to have her truth told, her voice heard, her right to justice served.
Awa,
Law enforcement believes the crime(s) happened at the VDS residence. (at the beach=bogus tale by suspects)
——-
TexasRick:
I believe Joe T. has admitted he is being paid.
It would be interesting to know by whom.
Arubaboy,
The prosecutors have not yet presented all the new evidence.
P.S. It can only help Aruba if there is truth and justice for Natalee. Aruba needs to regain the trust of its tourists.
Oh the irony. Here in America we cherish innocence before being proven guilty and yet this board is full of purported patriots (vigilantes?) who are basically calling for this kid to be lynched before his trial. You are a very sorry lot.
_____________________
SM: Nobody is calling for JK2 to be lynched. Most of us do believe that JK2 are guilty in the least of Voluntary Manslaughter resulting in the death of Natalee Holloway, therefore we do want them to be charged and given prison time for their offenses. (klaasend)
Patti – when have you ever dealt in facts?
You have multiple “facts” wrong in just about every post.
Ever hear of the Choctaw Indians in Al and other southern states? Guess what – they’re cannibals too. Oh how the plot thickens, huh Patti.
Hey Sporter,
I just picked you and your two goon-tard buddies
up a 1 year supply of SOAP-ON-A-ROPE.
Have yourself a
HOLLY JOLLY CHRISTMAS!
Sincerely Yours,
Burl Ives
hey everyone, I check in here from time to time to get updates – appreciated the insight and efforts by everyone here.
Does anyone know what these text messages (new evidence) said?
Joe T on H&C Fox. I thought he was gonna burst a vein.
How does Joe know there is no new evidence?
MsU that’s what I am wondering since there is a gag order. That would be his and Rosemary’s 4th, 5th, or 6th appearance today to say it’s nothing.
Still trying to tell everyone that Natalee chose to sit on a beach alone to look at stars, because Joran had no condom. Men, take your wives or gf’s down to a beach in your area and try to leave them there at 3am alone to look at stars and watch their response, then imagine doing it in a foreign country.. Didn’t happen! Maybe Joe should ask those 3 fishermen where Natalee and Joran were at since they saw noone matching the Kalpoes or VDS or Natalee at the beach that night by the fisherman’s huts. JoeT also said Joran was home around 2:43 and Joran says he got home at 3:30 or so. JoeT never met a camera he didn’t want to hog. Try putting someone on who can challenge him, instead of him talking over everyone.
Justice for Natalee!
It is in this girl’s general direction in
which I choose to do my ‘HEART-ING.’
….
http://tinyurl.com/294puv
….
http://tinyurl.com/39nswz
http://tinyurl.com/2j96ej
Gee, Joran, no one ever told you that murder can be inconvenient for someone besides the victim?
Taco Is In This For One Reason:
Publicity – Period !
He and His GF RoseMarie Are Planning To Re-Kindle
Their Romance In Aruba -
Too Bad Taco’s Wife is Stuck at Home With All Those Kids – Wonder if She Knows About Taco’s Many Trips To San Nicolas While In Aruba ?
If Anyone Is Paying Taco For Anything It Would Be His Buddy Mike Posner or that NYC Mafia King (Renfro’s Boss) Only To Protect Their Money -
Count On It -
Am watching Greta on the TV as I type this. This is better than Dancing with the Stars!
Could someone refresh me? Who is Elson Oduber…I am digging through the pics on photobucket (trying to catch up) and found the tickle space. http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?action=view¤t=ElsonOduber.jpg and this pic of NAtasha Oduber http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?action=view¤t=NatashaOduber.jpg What do they have to do with Natalee? Thank you!!
Any one know where Beth is,have not heard a thing from her.
Just noticed that my local time as I type is 10:27, but this msg will record at 11;27. Guess the server is in a different time zone? Just wondering.
Does anyone one know what firm Rosemarie Arnold is with and how long has she represented Joran vandersloot?
____________________
SM: Rosemary Arnold works with JoeT’s firm and they are Joran’s attorneys hired for the civil case. They cannot practice in Aruba or the Netherlands. In otherwords, they are nothing when it comes to the criminal case against Joran in Aruba other than mouth pieces for American media. (klaasend)
And so it appears that David Kock is the attorney of record for Satish Kalpoe. Another firm will represent Deepak. Wonder how the Kalpoe can afford attorney’s on an Internet Cafe salary. Hmmmmm.
Thank you Klaas. She displayed an interesting facial expression when Abrams suggested that if she was so certain that joran vander sloot did not kill Natalee Holloway then she must know who did.
I believe she even asked him to repeat the question to try to cover.
gutfeeling
Did you see Rosemary on Abrams say “Joran is a sweet kid”. Had visions of Anita all over again and her comment when Joran did something wrong he would give her 3 thick kisses.
I don’t think that any of us really know what is being said in Aruba, what the prosecutors are doing or what the suspects are/aren’t saying.
I’m ready to wait until we hear before making any prejudgements about startling new revelations or about the “same old, same old” cover-up.
It doesn’t seem plausible that these efforts are being done for nothing. What will come of them?
I certainly don’t know….
I fear that the media coverage will yield what John Milton described as “much heat and little light.” Let’s hope that the talk shows don’t run rampant with unfounded speculation.
I did hear the prosecutor say tonight that Paulus is involved some way. He said Paulus says he knows more and will tell someday, Joran has said the same as well as one of the Kalpoe brothers. The prosecutor said well now is your time to come forward and tell it, if you did nothing you won’t be in trouble.
This is one of my favorites.. Anita and Paulus talking about Joran.. 3 thick kisses and Joran gambling and sex addicted??? Paulus talking about Joran always having little girls and boys sleeping over. Trying to figure out who is sicker
.” He talks gently and in a controlled way concerning his child, but Anita excites herself concerning the bad tales that circulate on the island. Joran gambling – and sex-addicted? He is simply a delicious youth! A delicious adolescent, who lives for friends, sport, and family. Oké, he has adolescent traits. Not always sticks to his appointments. If he is supposed to be home at one at night her turns off his cell so his parents can’t call him. If he gets in trouble later, he gives his concerned mother three thick kisses. They don’t have to worry, he is home now. Anita is enraged that her son is accused of rape. “He was in fact very loving with his girlfriends” Joran had always many little girls around him but the contact was frequently only friendly, she says. “They went with each other for as a brother and sisters” Paul wants to show Joran’s room. However., friends, both little girls and boys, could always spend the night he says as he crosses the garden to the outbuilding. Since he was 15 Joran had here, beside the swimming pool and at a reasonable distance of the parental house, his own bedroom and bathroom. Paul opens the door carefully. “Look, here slept four or five during the sleepovers. It was always completely normal.
#’s76 & 113 – the deduction I make is the Aruban Tourist Authority or a higher branch of the government is/was funding Joe T….think about it…who else in Aruba would give a flying fig??? Who else would try to smear Natalee and her family for their own gain? Dennis Jacobs is too busy eating his frosted flakes, Paulus too busy sweating and studying for another “can I be a judge please” test, Anita too busy waiting for the next visit from her “delicious sporter”, and as we all know Dompig wants to be a surgeon so he’s busy with that…nope IMO, JT was given money by ATA to help “sanitize” Joran’s image.
Responding to #111 Gut feeling
Thank you for reading my analysis of the case on http://www.hsleader.com.
As for your question. I have spoken with profilers and many other who believe that Natalee never made it to the beach.
I have heard many rumors and some expert analysis suggesting a variety of locations for the assault, including: in the Kalpoe’s vehicle, Joran’s apartment, an abandoned hotel, a home construction site, near the pond or another isolated location.
Under each of these scenarios, she would have never made it to the area of the Fishermen’s Huts. My own investigation found several instances where Joran made clear references to the “north side of the island” and the area near the “International School.” I felt as if he was almost begging us to go find the body near one of those locations. But, nothing was ever found. I thought his obsession with pointing us toward those locations may have been an unconscious confession that the crime scene and or body may be located in those areas.
However, in the end, having spent a lot of time on the island, I believe the Fisherman’s Huts are a likely location for the assault. It is a location that is easily accessible, it is well known to the locals, it is close to Natalee’s hotel and it is secluded. It is easy to believe that Natalee may have allowed herself to be dropped there, clearly within eyesight of her hotel, in the company of one or more men she had come to trust over the course of the day and evening.
On a personal note, when I was on the island working on the investigation, at the end of the day I would go running up along the beach right up to the area of the Fishermen’s Huts. Each time I made this run, I got a very uncomfortable feeling of gloominess when I got to that area. I often thought that this was a vary good area for someone to attack her. So, just from a personal perspective, based on my gut feeling as well as everything I know about the case, I do believe something could have happened in that location.
Finally, I think you have to take into account that the only people who have put Natalee on the beach are the three people suspected in her disappearance. So, as likely as it is that she may have been there, I believe we still just don’t have enough evidence to be sure.
So, my final answer to your question is that I believe it is 70% likely that she was at the Marriott beach with one or more of the suspects at some point and it is 30% likely that she simply never made it to the beach.
Joran (somewhere): “It takes me twenty beers to get drunk.”
Anita: “He never touched alcohol.”
(Quotes probably not exact.)
What la-la land does Anita vdS live in? My guess is, she long ago learned to keep quiet or face the anger of PvdS.
The van der Scums seem to be the very model of a modern dysfunctional family.
Darn spellcheck! Last post should have read very good area, not vary good area.
All,
Looks like I made the mistake of watching Tivo’d Foxnews when I should have been watching Abram’s interview with Anita. Can anyone tell me where I can see a video of that interview or a transcript, please? Thanks in advance…
As a father, sure, I’ve made mistakes. Some come back to haunt me. God only gave me, us, one child, a boy. I have regrets about many things. I spent a lot of time with him. He was in scouting, I was his Scoutmaster. He was an Eagle Scout.
When he was 7, I pulled him off the bottom of a swimming pool. My wife had been working for weeks to teach him to swim. I thought he could. I can still see the look on his face as he came off the slide at the deep end and went right to the bottom, never making one effort to save himself. I had him in seconds and to the top a second later. He just held his breath and knew I would come for him. What would have happen if I had not been there?
I took him to Alaska on a hunting trip when he was 10 years old. 600 miles from nowhere. Just my 70-year-old friend, my 10-year-old son, and me. What kind of a father would do something like that? There were large brown bears everywhere. I prayed every night and every day if anything was to happen to my son, to please let it happen to me instead. I should have known better. I was the adult. For 8 days I did not sleep at night, keeping guard with a loaded rifle.
Our last day out before being picked up by a floatplane, my worst nightmare came true.
The big bear was on us before I even saw it. My rifle lay a half second away and the bear was coming for my son. Time went into slow motion as I grabbed my rifle, chambered a round and stepped between the bear and my son. It seems time had slowed to offer me an advantage. The big bear rose to his back legs. He smelled bad. A split second before I was going to break his spinal cord high in his neck, he lost interest and vanished into the timber along the river.
I taught my son to be brave. Bravery is an admirable trait. I should have added an addendum. A Father should think, and think carefully what and how he instructs his son.
When my son was 14, he went into a river after a drowning man, I was there I saw it. The drowning man pulled my son under. They both went under, and then resurfaced. Another boy went to the man’s rescue, and my son attempted to rescue him again. This time they all three went under. I called to them to swim to shore. I was trying to get to them. I’m a very strong, fast swimmer. The foulest, harshest, words I have ever uttered came from my mouth as I raced for them.
A father should never say such words to his son. I was afraid. All the talks about bravery, and I was afraid. The boys swam for shore, and I’m ashamed to say I was afraid—fearful for my life. Time went into slow motion. I seemed like an eternity. Part of me said let him drown, and swim for shore. Part of me (I think the decent part) said help him. Part of me said go, part of me said stay or forever more loose the respect of your son. I finally decided that if I swam for shore without the man, then I would loose a lot more than my life. If I stayed to help and lost my life, then I still had the respect of my son. If I swam to shore without him, I lost everything. So I stayed.
I’ve made mistakes as a father. I’ve looked my son right in the face, and told him to “shut up”. Once when he was 12, he bowed up to me at work in front of my employees, and I lifted him by his shirt, completely off the ground. Why would a father do such a thing? I’ve never hit my son. He has never hit me. I have spanked him. The last time was when he was 12 years old. That was a hard year. That year on a backing trip, he didn’t talk to me for 3 days, because he was mad. He finally looked at me and ask, “Dad, what was I mad at you about?” I pointed a finger at him, and we had a good laugh.
I know this is a long twisted yarn, but it does have a point. The point is, I understand what it is to be a father. I had a good son, a great son, he help raise me, just like I helped raise him. What would it be like to have a horrible son? What would it be like to have a son who had no respect for you? What would it be like to have a son than hurt people, drank, cussed, and did as he wished?
It would break my heart! I would always think it was my fault, and maybe it would be, or maybe some kids are just evil. Just evil. It doesn’t matter how sorry you feel for them. If they are evil, and they hurt and they kill people, they need to be put away. The prisons are full of people you would feel sorry for, but they still deserve, and need to be there. Sure it is an “inconvenience” for them, and it really cramps their plans; but just take a long hard close look at their victims, and the families of their victims, and see how sorry you feel for your son at that point.
Jerry
Hans Mos is after premeditated Paulus. He didn’t go the swamp of Aruba looking for 3 punks.
It’s over for the 3, the battle is over Paulus as he is the connection to the adults.
Not to mention Natalee died at his home.
I’d rather french kiss my friggin’ dog in the mouth than watch a tv interview with that elephant load, gas bag, lying ass hooker,
Anita Vandersloot!!!
That bitch is dumber than a box of rocks.
She needs help on multiple levels!
God needs to boost her up to the front of
the line.
….
Yo quiero our NAT-SKI back, Aruba! -j4n
Tonight I listened to Greta’s interview of the new Aruban prosecutor. I must say, he’s the first Aruban official that didn’t come across as a complete idiot. From what I can see, he’s by far the most intelligent person on the island. He speaks clearly and well, and makes good sense. Judging from this appearance, I believe this man is too smart to have initiated this latest round of arrests without good reason. He would have instantly recognized the immense downside to his actions and thought better of them if he didn’t believe his evidence was sufficient to sustain a credible prosecution. PVDS and J2K might yet be brought to justice.
#99 John Taylor Your report and analysis is very interesting. Do you have any idea whether there was any physical/forsensic evidence found and if mso who was responsible for losing it or destroying it.
One tape made I think by Jamie Skeeters talking to Deepak was supposed to have been sent to Holland for analysis. Maybe that was resolved (I was not posting here at that time and the folks on SM are pretty uptodate so I may have missed the answer).
What is your opinion of the new team in charge of the investigation?
Thanks.
I can’t stand Joran’s whinings. Not only is Natalee gone forever, but Joran, his friends, family and “associates” have been allowed to torture the Holloway family and friends for over two whole years. What about them, Joran….. what about Natalee disappearing like a bolt out of the blue. That bolt out of the blue was your evil mind planning her abduction, torture and murder with your extremely sick accomplices. We will never have one moment of sympathy for you, ever.
What’s Wrong, Yo Yo?
Can’t stand to see your boy cry?
Getting too close to the truth for
you, Yo Yo, or are you just having
one of those days?
As far as your Choctah’s are concerned,
I suppose our Cowboys took care of them.
Unlike some people who have allowed human
sacrificing tribes to breed for hundreds
of years.
Do some research, Yo Yo, on Indian Tribes
in the Caribbean and South America and see
how much cannibalism you can come up with.
You’re looking in the wrong part of the world.
Natalee wasn’t in Alabama, she was in Aruba,
remember?
You would especially enjoy the history of the
Caribe Tribe which was used by the Free Masons
to break-in slaves before sending them into the
U.S. I wonder what happened to the ones that
didn’t bend? I remember one Aruban woman laughing
at us during the “white bread” strike and telling
us that she preferred dark bread.
You, of all people, need to wake up and realize
that not everything is either black or white,
but there is alot of grey in between. And if you
are unaware of the fact that cannibalism is a way
of life in some parts of the world, you need to
be enlightened.
Don’t look to me… do it yourself, read, seek,
research instead of criticizing those that do.
I don’t spend my time on two or three different
blogs reporting on who’s saying what… and
finding fault with everyone I meet. Too much to
do and too little time to waste on being a critic.
Make yourself useful.
Inspire me.
Prove me wrong, if you can, but the Choctahs?
Sorry, wrong number.
Jerry, that touched my heart…thanks for sharing your father’s heart in light of all this.
141 Deetch…..right on.
John Taylor….though I have not been to Aruba…I disagree that Natalee was ever at the beach.
Natalee Holloway was taken back to the Van Der Sloot Compound. It is doubtful that she was ever in JVDS’ apartment, as ALE and the ‘On-site’ judge had no problem with searhing the apartment…but serious problems with searching the grounds and the main house.
Natalee Holloway died in the house of Paulus Van Der Sloot. It is the actions of those covering up that scream — the judge amending the search warrant on sight disallowing the search of the home; furniture being removed and then new furniture brought into the home just weeks after the murder; pouring cement on the compound just weeks after the murder.
When you combine this evidence with all of the other ‘conflict of interest’ assistance Paulus received from his friends to distance him from prosecution, it is pretty obvious that Paulus was very, very involved in the murder of Natalee Holloway.
The Fisherman’s huts was a red herring. The lighthouse was a red herring. Everywhere else was a red herring….except they never used the home as part of their stories….except to state they stopped there ‘briefly’. Natalee was killed or seriously injured there.
Natalee in serious condition or her body was taken to Lorenzo’s early in the morning by Paulus and Joran. Joran boarded a bus from near Lorenzo’s house at 6:50am after Paulus called the bus driver and requested pickup. Joran went to school but spent the day sleeping in the nurse’s office.
MD
#115 – We Americans do believe in “innocent until proven guilty” but we also believe in justice. Most of us on this board have seen sufficient evidence to know at least some of those who are guilty.
#140 – Yes, there are children who even with family guidance go bad. We can teach and hope and pray. There is no condemnation for parents who have parented and their children have still gone awry. BUT the condemnation for Paulus and Anita is in that they knew (or had reason to know) that their son was drinking under age, going to casinos, etc. and YET they continue to cover for him. The love of a parent is very strong, but hopefully most parents won’t cross the line in supporting their child in criminal activities. Anita and Paulus are not helping Joran right now. They are teaching him all the wrong lessons.
RE: 144 KayJay – I know a lot of physical evidence has been collected. I hear that some of it was lost of thrown away with insufficient analysis. Specifically, I was told about bones that were turned in only to be tossed away by police on the judgement of a college professor that the bones were from animals.
The bottom line is that so much opportunity was lost in regard to forensic evidence when the Aruban Police moved so slowly in the early phase of the investigation.
RE: 148 Minnesota Dad – Your theory could be just as likely as any other. Until the forensics or interrogations produce a better understanding of what happened, a professional investigator has to leave the door open to any theory that fits the evidence. It is certainly possible that Natalee never made it to the beach. Hopefully, the latest round of interrogations will produce the answers for all of us.
140 Thank you for sharing. That was very touching. Parents know when they have make mistakes and have erred in judgment. Good parents learn from those mistakes and do their best not to repeat them. Paulus and Anita have tried to be friends with Joran instead of parenting him and teaching him right from wrong. Joran learned at a very young age how to manipulate mommy and daddy and they just allowed it to happen. Shame on them. SHAME ON THEM ALL!
John Taylor (#150) … Thanks for that remark. Indeed, while all of us have had (and may still have) theories as to what happened, none of us can honestly say that we KNOW.
I have had several ideas, which have bended or disappeared as new information comes out. Unfortunately, few ideas can be ruled out as impossible (though some may be more plausible than others).
Let’s hope that everyone here accepts the same premise of skepticism towards all theories, their own included. To do otherwise is a disservice to the family and an insult to Natalee.
Richard (#152),
I am glad that you understand how a fact based investigation works. A colleague of mine suggest the “fingers” rule for investigations.
As you separate facts from gossip, you need to be sure enough to “bet your fingers” that the information is true, before you consider it to be a fact of the case.
I have lots of theories and ideas, but, facts are much harder to come by. Anyone who spent any time on the island during the course of the investigation knew how much gossip and misinformation permeated the atmosphere.
I always tried to stay focused and avoid the tendency of others to spiral deep into the rabbit holes. Facts, facts, facts, that is what I sought.
I wish some of the so called experts we have heard from so often would stick to this standard, instead of continuing to spread misinformation and speculation. It certainly doesn’t serve Natalee or the investigation.
JT
http://www.hsleader.com
I believe joran is as innocent as “OJ” .
murphph on November 28th, 2007 1:49 am
I believe joran is as innocent as “OJ” .
yeah, that was nicely prosecuted…..
Boycott the US?
Well, concerning Urine, we are all praying that his devil comes for him real, real soon. And when he does come, then the rat faced father and the mother of the pig will finally understand what the Holloway’s have been put thru.