RSSAruba: Lorenzo Van Rijn & Suspects Custody Extended … One Happy Drug Bust
ARUBA … One Happy Drug Bust
Last Wednesday, the team of special projects of the police corps arrested the five men, L.R, J.V., R.V, D.W., and M.W. and confiscated 898 hemp plants, two live cartridges, five firearms, cars and money, during house searches in several homes.
Amigoe: June 26, 2007: Suspects’ custody extended
A lot of bags were needed for carrying off the almost 1000 confiscated marijuana plants.
ORANJESTAD – The Public Prosecutor has extended the custody of the five suspects that were arrested during a raid in Savaneta and San Nicolas last Wednesday, with another eight days.
Last Wednesday, the team of special projects of the police corps arrested the five men, L.R, J.V., R.V, D.W., and M.W. and confiscated 898 hemp plants, two live cartridges, five firearms, cars and money, during house searches in several homes. The Public Prosecutor indicated that the five suspects will be charged with possession of hemps, firearms, and live cartridges.
AUTO
S.M., the suspect of setting a car on fire on the premises of the police station in Sta. Cruz will remain in custody for another eight days. A group of young persons in Macuarima were shot and injured from this car, a Toyota Scarlet, on June 8th. The police caught up with the car, confiscated it and parked it in the watched area near the Hall of Justice in Sta. Cruz, where it was set on fire two days later.
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This is an interesting development in that the KLPD stated that they would office with the Aruban Drug Enforcement people and not the general ALE.
I would assume that this “drug arrest” has given the KLPD the complete opportunity to search all THREE of Lorenzo’s properties. Why haven’t these searches (of all three properties) been discussed in the Aruban media (perhaps because they haven’t been done)? Where are the port-a-potties, the dogs, the backhoes, and the jackhammers???
Though I still believe the KLPD is just going to whitewash this case like the rest of the bums in Aruba have, I am still holding onto my crow pie and will gladly share with 1006 and others. I maintain – as I have since September of last year when the KLPD took on reviewing the investigation – that until Paulus is brought back in as a suspect, the KLPD is not interested in solving this case. At least they brought Lorenzo in. Perhaps they will get him to rat out Paulus.
md
This is not the guy in the drawing from the tv show H.E. His ears stick out more and he looks like a Sloot. He does not look like he became a big time drug dealer on his own. He was allowed too I believe. Why arrest him now, is a big question in my mind? Is it because the Dutch team is closer to answers? If he is involved in Natalee missing..I would guess a lot of people are not sleeping at night..maybe chief commissioners, judges, cops, suspects. Maybe they are thinking about what could happen if he has a lighter sentence on the drug charges or being dropped all together if he gives up people connected to Natalee…things to think about.
Dossier minister Croes sent back (published in Amigo)
ORANJESTAD – The Antillean Procurator General (PG) will not give advice on the Aruban corruption investigation by Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP).
Deputy PG Nico Jörg of Aruba has asked for advice early June, because he is of the opinion that the Aruban criminal law does not offer sufficient guarantee to protect the Public Prosecutor (OM) in this kind of political sensitive dossier.
He says that the PG and the OM cannot do their work, because to his opinion, they are being accused of political influence when prosecuting ministers and former ministers.
He thought that he had a solution within the cooperation regulation between Aruba and the Antilles . The PG of the Antilles, who is according to Jörg totally immune for any influences from Aruba and the government of the Antilles cannot influence him in his advice to the PG of Aruba , could be the proper official to give the advice.
However, the Antillean Justice-minister David Dick has indicated that Aruba and the Antilles are autonomous countries, each responsible for their own decisions. With cases of corruption in own country, the PG and OM must assume their own responsibility, without the advice of third parties.
At this moment, the OM cannot confirm yet whether the dossier has indeed been sent back, but they do not deny this either. The spokesperson of the ministry of Justice in Aruba has meanwhile confirmed that the dossier is sent back without advice of the Antillean PG.
——————
Rudy Croes is running an “Aruban Corruption” Investigation?
Corruption at what levels?
Jorg wants “advice” to be given by the Antillean justice minister, David Dick?
David Dick doesn’t want to offer advice regarding what Jorg should advise to Jorg’s own Aruban prosecutor general?
Is this sounding like the same tune being played all over again, when it comes to someone – from the prosecutor general’s office having the integrity to simply – TELL THE TRUTH?
Sounds like the Aruban prosecutor generals office is AFRAID to tell the truth!!!
I WONDER WHY?
I wonder what would lead the Aruban prosecutor generals office in its conversations with the Aruban office of ministry, to feel the need for the Antillean Justice Minister to “GIVE ADVISE” that would: …”offer sufficient guarantee to protect the Public Prosecutor (OM) in this kind of political sensitive dossier”.
IF THE GOAL OF THE ARUBAN OFFICE OF MINISTRY AND PUBLIC PROSECUTOR IS TO INVESTIGATE CORRUPTION IN ARUBA, THEN WHY DOES THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR IN ARUBA NEED TO BE PROCTECTED?
Dutch investigative team: WHERE ARE YOU?
J.V. could this be Joran Van der Slut!! Nooo, he is a good boy and sporter!!!!!
#2 & 3 Maybe the KLPD-investigation and the KLPD itself, turn out to be solid enough to bring down even the whole of the Aruban corruption-web(s)… That would be a really great thing…
Wonder what role Croes plays?! IS HE CLEAN HIMSELF?!
I have always maintained that this crime was simple. The cover-up was the complex problem – coached suspects (J2K) giving multiple stories is a tactic known to defense attorneys in order to cloud the case up as much as possible.
This is the case in a nutshell:
J2K pick up Natalee at CnC’s. They take her to #19 Montana, the Sloot compound (I come to this conclusion based on Joran’s statements – his first statement was the HI drop off – his second statement was the THREE of them took her back to his home…this statement was made at the same time of the confession that ‘something bad happened’ – when the ‘something bad happened’ was reversed by Joran’s handlers, the new story was that he dropped her off at the beach). Paulus was present at the compound. THEY NEVER, EVER bring Natalee into Joran’s apartment but rather carry on poolside.
From 1:00am to 3:00am the THREE are joined by Freddy, Guido, Koen and possibly other “pimps” for a gang rape at the Sloot compound. Joran has already confessed that he was raping her while she fell in and out of consciousness. Natalee fights, as evident by scratches described by witnesses on Guido and Joran. Approximately 3 am, something bad does happen – she is non-responsive…maybe from drugs…more likely from being smacked hard after scratching Guido and Joran. She is taken into the main Van Der Sloot compound and placed on a mattress. Paulus sends everyone home. Natalee is alive, but in very serious shape – from the drugs, being raped, and heavy battery.
Approximately 3:30am, after Joran has searched the Internet for a half hour, Joran and Paulus load the gravely injured Natalee into the car and head off to the ATM machine and Lorenzo’s. Lorenzo is asked to take care of her.
Perhaps she was dead during this time, but my guess is that she was passed to Lorenzo in a seriously messed up state. I base this on 1) Satish Kalpoe asking, “how’s the girl”, 2) Joran bragging about his sexual exploits with her at school the next day (psychopath or not, I believe he would be smart enough to not brag about a girl he murdered), 3) Dennis Jacobs confidently recommending that Dave Holloway sit back, she will turn up in a few days (once recovered from the assault and rape that occured).
The evidence of the pass on to Lorenzo is that Joran boarded the bus near Lorenzo’s property at 6:50am on the morning of Natalee’s disappearance.
In the meantime, the media and the Holloway/Twittys come to the island. Now, if Natalee was alive (which upon analyzing everything…it is very possible — but near death), they had a huge problem….releasing her at a crack house or other place would DEVASTATE tourism as FOXNews and everyone else would be reporting how she was kidnapped, drugged, and raped by the island’s elite Dutch children.
The decision was made to disappear Natalee Holloway (either living or if she died somewhere between 3:00am and 6:30am during the transfer to Lorenzo). This is where Natalee’s life had to be taken and her “disappeared” in order to not harm tourism on the island. This explains PVDS’ “No body – no crime” statement. This also explains Deepaks police car comment, “If they find the girl they will find the chit” and Joran’s response, “I will laugh if they find the girl”.
What better place to take ‘the girl’ then to an ‘untouchable’ property on the island? They needed to get her out of the VDS compound ASAP, as they knew that there would be a search in the immediate hours after it was discovered that Natalee did not make her flight.
It is very clear that Paulus and his compound were center to this case based on 1) Paulus clearly coaching the witnesses and interfering with the investigation (per Karin Janssen), 2) the blood soaked mattress and the furniture truck arriving to deliver furniture, 3) the intentional interference in the search of #19 Montana through Judge Bob Wit and Ben Vocking restricting the search to Joran’s apartment only, 4) Paulus filing with the Aruban courts to not allow the FBI to have any jurisdiction or to provide any independant searches (why have people involved that would actually solve the crime?).
What we do know, is that there are witness statements that PVDS was out with JVDS and Natalee at 4:00am. We also early on were told that there was an ATM transaction at this time. We also know that Joran picked up his bus to school near Lorenzo’s home. A dead or gravely injured Natalee was taken to Lorenzo’s. Based on the assault of Guido and Joran, she was badly hurt (remember, she fell and hit her head several times when dropped off at the Holiday Inn!).
So there you have it. Very simple and not muddied and complex as a defense attorney, Paulus, would like you to believe. Here are my opinions on the charges:
Deepak Kalpoe – Accessory to kidnap, rape, and murder
Satish Kalpoe – Accessory to Kidnap, rape, and murder
Joran Van Der Sloot – Kidnap, Rape, heavy battery, and accessory to murder. Providing False witness statements in a criminal investigation.
Guido Wever – Rape, heavy battery, and accessory to murder
Paulus Van Der Sloot – Accessory to kidnap and murder. In addition, Paulus provided false witness statements (the 6/16/2007 vanished witness statement) and interfered with a criminal investigation. Racketeering. Transporting and accessory in the disposal of a body.
Lorenzo – Accessory to murder and transporting/disposal of a body.
No one was ever at a beach where tennis shoes stolen from the lost and found at the racquet club were conveniently placed by Guido and Joran. No one was ever at the lighthouse…where the exact belt, that Joran was strangling a friend on his MySpace account, was found. These were plants to muddy the case.
Yes, it was all in plain view. Now, please KLPD. End this case….I am very, very tired of doing your work for you.
md
Yes, #4, as stated by Anita, Joran is a “good boy and sporter”.
He does not engage in the use of drugs, according to his mother.
However, if you were to ask the young girls who had reportedly stated they believe they were raped by him, and inquire about any drugs used upon them against their will, they may have a different perspective on Joran, and what they believe he did to them through the use of “drugs” and how and where they believe he “uses” them.
I wonder why those young girls who stepped forward in stating they were raped by Joran, were not offered the “special protections” that the assistant public prosecutor seeks for himself, in order to “investigate Aruban corruption”? You’d think that the protection of children would have superceded the adults all needing to protect themselves – from something as DIFFICULT – as, THE TRUTH?
#2. Yes the ears on Lorenzo look similar to Jorans.
I wonder if this bust was the same as you are thinking. Could the sentence be higher on drugs and arms, than witholding knowledge about Natalee and the Sloots.
I was wondering if, while on the island and the KLPD were investigating Lorenzo and came upon the drug info. Like you said this was not done all by himself, too many drugs and way too many guns. Too many ppl on the island would have to be involved with these drugs and arms.
Will Lorenzo turn and talk, who knows, depends on how many BIG ppl are involved?
I’ll eat crow too. As I said earlier, they just want to add doubt / confusion as to who is responsible for what happened to Natalee. Don’t get me wrong. I think Lorenzo is part of the cover up. What MD says sounds very probable as to Lorenzo’s part in the cover up.
Hopefully, Lorenzo will talk and Paulus will be brought in…but I doubt it. To be honest, I look for some off the wall bs story as to what happened to come out and we suckers be expected to believe it. I mean think about the other bs stories they tried to pass on…such as the letter saying she ran away because she was pregnant by Jug. Or, she died of an overdose. I can’t think about it. It ticks me off.
Worth noting that there were FIVE people taken in. We’re all waiting on tenterhooks to see what comes out of this … whatever one may think has happened.
I believe that our gov’t already knows exactly what went on that night through Echelon information.
I encourage you to google “Echelon”. With the drug trade and our buddy Chavez just a few miles away…I am sure every cell record, text message, e-mail….and even the land lines are tapped. Everything is stored in a database somewhere.
Beth Holloway received info that something very serious had taken place and the DEA was involved IMMEDIATELY….hmmmm…DEA. Anyone think the DEA had certain folks under surveillance? Perhaps Lorenzo? How would they know so fast that this was much more serious than a missing/runaway girl????
I believe that the DEA and FBI have the full evidence on this case and know exactly what happened that night…but can’t come forward with it because it would compromise how they operate and just how powerful our surveillance is.
This is what has to just ‘loose stools’ to those that have participated in this cover-up….knowing that the decisions they were making were transparent cover-ups to US crime surveillance.
Now, it comes down to are the KLPD look as foolish…or are they going to slowly pick apart the players until the house of cards falls.
md
#2 Steve Holloway … Remember that we’ve been told from day one that there is no plea bargaining in the Aruban legal system.
At least, that’s what the Arubans have told us. At least one Dutch professor of law has contradicted that assertion, but as we know, on Aruba the “truth” is written on a very flexible slate. What’s said today is denied tomorrow … and never is there any need to correlate the two.
I truly hope you are right MD!
I’m inclined to doubt that the FBI, CIA or whatever would on the one hand have such information and withhold it … all the while sending a team of agents down to perpetrate a charade. Can’t say it didn’t happen, of course.
On the other hand, was it Baucus (memory is failing) who at first came out with the never-explained statement that there were indications that this was something more than a mere accident (sorry, I can’t recall the exact statement)?
That statement was something that brought to mind the idea of human trafficking. And the notion still lingers, as it does with the Amy Bradley case.
Richard | June 26, 2007, 10:59 am
Well Richard, the value of taking in five drugdealers is that these kind of people often KNOW things. And if put under pressure and offered deals… They maybe will yield up some crucial knowledge!
And it may in general help to put up the pressure in the criminal “milieu” that has its hand in this…
Absolutely, Robert. My point was just that we were told that plea bargaining isn’t done on Aruba, and that the authorities cannot offer them deals as we do in the US.
I am in no position to say if that assertion is accurate; at least one Dutch professor of law has said that it isn’t.
6. I have always maintained that this crime was simple. The cover-up was the complex problem
Comment by minnesota dad | June 26, 2007, 10:27 am
________________
A very well thought out theory!
MD … what about the gardener’s observation? Carlos Ramos testified in an Aruban Court and … he identified Joran and Deepak as the persons sitting in Deepak parked vehicle across the street from the Marriot Beach near the Racquet Ball Club at 2:30 AM on the morning that Natalee Holloway went missing.
.
Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony
August 15, 2005
.
I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is.
.
Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006
TWITTY: … Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. SHE CALLED FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.
Yes Richard, Bacchus made some sort of vague comment about ‘wire taps’ subsequent to his closed door meeting with the Aruban delegation that was trying to shut off the boycott drive. I believe it was Greta V.S. asked Bacchus what the Arubans were so upset about and his response was “Wire Taps”.
So, Aruba shows up to show Bacchus how hard they are working to ‘solve’ this case, and it appears Bacchus was threatened over US ‘Wire Taps’. If you were covering up a case would you be concerned about what someone might know??? Aruba sure was.
Our gov’t would withhold evidence that 1) would compromise the ‘bigger picture’, and 2) would not be allowed in court anyways due to how it was obtained…so disclosing is not an option.
People within our government knew what was going on almost immediately and the DEA was involved.
md
minnesota dad | June 26, 2007, 11:07 am
Maybe you’re right about the DEA. But… If they have information on this case I invite them to report it at “Meld Misdaad Anoniem” (“Report Crime Anonymously”)…
Phone number in the NL’s: 0800-7000 (Don’t know the international number though…)
MD,
I think you are spot on here. While a detail here and there may change, the basic scenario makes a great deal of sense. Let’s hope the Dutch are interested in letting the truth be told and in for showing the world that they are interested in justice.
If Aruba had investigated this properly instead of trying to cover it all up this ‘boycott’ and constant scrutiny of their island would have been over with a long time ago.
Let’s just see if the Dutch investigators are willing to do their part to find justice.
Well, reading the posts, here I am wondering, if, this is where the “favours” were called in? Was this the bunch that had to help Paulus…..because Paulus helped them?
I wonder if the trickle will fall to “pitbull”?
From what I’ve been told, the Prosecutor on Aruba has the sole authority to decide whether or not to prosecute a crime, based upon the evidence. If a witness were to talk and offer credible evidence in another crime (like Natalee’s death), then I imagine the Prosecutor might choose not to prosecute that particular person in an entirely different crime (like drug charges). While this is not “plea bargaining,” it has a similar effect.
Richard | June 26, 2007, 11:26 am
In the NL’s we do some ten years or so, have the system of “crown witnesses” (who when they testify against their former mates get a lower or no penalty). But untill now only in a very few, very high profile cases. And I don’t know what it’s like at Aruba?
#11 – MD, Observing can be such a beautiful thing!!
Rest assured, they (the good guys) will find a way for Natalee’s family to bring home their baby’s truth, if all else has been brutally and maliciously taken from them.
They will find a way.
There is no doubt in my mind.
And if it were not for them, and their incredible efforts,it is frightening to consider whether any of Natalee’s truth would have survived 19 Montanja.
Makes you appreciate not only what goes with the wearing of a badge, but all that goes on behind the scenes, behind the wearing of that badge.
Integrity can indeed become the one source of healing redemption for Natalee’s beloved and suffering family.
My instincts tell me, they will not let her down(Natalee), and they will not let her family down.
I’m counting on THEM to be THE DIFFERENCE in this child’s story, in the uncovering of her truth, and in securing her family’s right to pursue justice in her good name.
#17 – Sadly, I believe that there is indeed more to the suffering that was inflicted upon this precious child.
19 Montanja is where the brutality commenced, in my opinion, soon after Natalee was drugged against her will, when her liberties and freedoms were stripped away from her.
But the criminal brutality did not end there…
#19 Robert….
I am right about the DEA. The DEA was there immediately and met with the chaperone who stayed behind. The DEA agent worked with the family upon their arrival. It was widely reported in the media that our government and the family believed this was much more serious than a wild partying girl who ran off with a boy for the night – and thus the DEA and FBI were immediately involved.
As far as reporting their information that was gained…come on…our government can not be giving out what would be considered “illegally obtained” information. Even if it was anonymous to the tipline. And no investigator is going to follow up on an anonymous tip that has no supporting evidence. That would be like trusting those psychics who were on TV last week (they got it wrong….Natalee was NEVER on the beach).
md
Richard,
Here are the comments by both Spencer Bachus and Charles Croes indicating this case is more than just a girl gone missing.
The Birmingham News-U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway’s disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details.
“The circumstances were disturbing,” said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI’s involvement. “I can’t get into it, but it’s something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off.” …
Charles Croes:
“There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.
It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you. I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.
#17 —
Who employed the gardener? Where is that gardener now?
We here in the US think that everyone must tell the truth when they testify. At the time, he appeared to be a credible source.
If your family was dirt poor and someone offered you a year’s wages to provide an alibi (ala Steve Croes) would you?
What was a gardener doing up at 2:30am? How close would you have to be to positively identify all three in the dark of night? Where would you go once you had all this money? Why would he have to testify in court (and then disappear!) when all other witnesses/suspects provided statements???
Originally, like BT, I held onto the gardener as a credible outsider to this case. I now believe he is nothing more that shoes on a beach or a belt by the lighthouse.
md
Follow up to #27….
It is possible that the gardener saw the two Kalpoes cleaning out their car. Is it possible that Joran was not with them? Witnesses can be wrong.
I maintain Paulus sent all of the Pimps out of there (perhaps at 2:15/2:30am) and he and Joran took Natalee to Lorenzo’s between 3:30am and 4:30am.
This may explain why Deepak was so upset and was looking for an alibi for that time period. He thought he may be framed and needed an alibi.
I maintain that the 2Ks were minor players, participating in the abduction and bringing her to the Van Der Sloots and then witnessing the heavy battery at the hands of Guido and Joran.
md
18 – MD, again the clarity of truth comes through.
I don’t know about you, but in my heart I am certain that had it not been for those FBI and DEA agents, Natalee’s voice would have been crushed and her truth obliterated by the contemptable conduct of Aruba’s most vicious, criminal minds.
THOSE “OBSERVERS”: THEY ARE THE REASON WHY NATALEE’S TRUTH WILL NOT BE CRUSHED!
All those journalists (print, news, photo) who worked to uncover Natalee’s truth: they too, performed incredible deeds!
And the courageous actions of BETH and Dave and all Natalee’s loving family, will give honor to Natalee’s truth through the telling of her story.
Those agents who walked Beth and Dave through this horrific journey are heroes in my opinion.
And imagine: the Aruban contingency had the arrogance to walk into this country, off the pain and suffering of this defenseless, innocent child, over their concerns about WIRE TAPS.
Imgaine that.
I can’t imagine WHY the Aruban contingency would be in a dither over wire taps.
Afterall, wasn’t it the Aruban contingency that specifically requested that the FBI “OBSERVE” ONLY?
Did the Aruban contingency think that “OBSERVING” did not include LISTENING?
It will be more than some “loose stools” for certain “groups”, MD, by the time Natalee’s light comes shining down upon all the hidden deeds, back room actions and secret “conversations” that went on.
Observing can be such a beautiful thing!
They will find a way for Natalee’s family to find the peace they long for, and the justice their beloved child deserves.
God bless them – each and every single one of them, who stood by this child’s truth and painstakingly walked Beth and Dave through the flames of hell, in order to find something – anything, left of their beloved Natalee, that they could gently carry back home and lay to rest with dignity and the honor that Natalee deserves.
About the plea-bargaining system in the NL’s (and Aruba?)
Officially we don’t have that system in the NL’s. But… The practice in the NL’s is that a judge often gives lower sentences when the defendant is cooperative f.i. if he helpes solve his own crime, says where he left the body, helps solve the imprissonment of the gang he was part of and so on, and so on… So in fact it has almost the same result for him as the plea-bargaining system. And I think prosecutors often demand lesser sentences as well if the defendants have been cooperative and truly regrets what he has done.
So maybe the practice isn’t that far away from the plea bargaining system.
minnesota dad | June 26, 2007, 11:56 am
I’m sure the DEA and FBI know a lot about the drugtrade in South America and the Caribean Islands, I even know for sure that they work with the dutch overthere. And probably the US via Echelon knows a lot of what happenes over there… And behind the screens the FBI has allready played info to the Aruban and Dutch police…
I guess I just stumbled over this line: ” … but can’t come forward with it because it would compromise how they operate and just how powerful our surveillance is. …” You’re right about that probably!
That’s why I proposed the “Meld Misdaad Anoniem”-phone.
NO PLEA BARGAINING UNDER DUTCH LAW???
.
Page 156,
June 13
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
Translation Credit: Johanna (BFN)
#19 – Robert,
Perhaps you can pass that “anonymous” tips line on to Dutch and Aruban newspapers.
It’s not the FBI that needs to “disclose” anything.
It’s the ALE and the Dutch investigators who are currently “in charge” of the “investigation”.
Right now, the case and the big ball is in THEIR COURT, so to speak…in more ways than one.
This is their big corruption to unravel, and judging from the way that the Aruban assistant prosecutor is pleading for advice from the Antilles Justice Minister, it seems that short of the assistant prosecutor’s office grabbing the next flight out of Aruba to anywhere, that folks are hard to come by who might want to step up to the big line and shed some light on the truth, no less speak it.
Maybe Paulus can begin by calling the “anonymous” tip line.
Afterall, he says he doesn’t want certain people to get ‘hurt’ and uses this as his reasoning for not speaking about all that he knows. Joran makes a similar statement.
Perhaps Paulus and Joran can dial up the “anonymous” tip lines to help solve the case since they wanted to do “anything” to “help” in “any way”.
The lies need to be eradicated so that the truth can flood the island of Aruba.
Why can’t Paulus just tell the truth?
Why did Paulus need to hide from Beth the fact that HE was WITH HER PRECIOUS DAUGHTER at the casino, on May 29th?
Is the truth so savagely insidious that it leaves no question as to what level of depraved indifference, brutality, and cruelty was inflicted upon Natalee?
IS THIS WHY PAULUS CAN’T SPEAK?
WHY IS THE TRUTH SO VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL?
Is it because the savagery inflicted upon Natalee leaves NOTHING to the imagination as to WHAT THIS POOR CHILD SUFFERED?
“Human rights (and human dignity)is non-negotiable.”
TRUTH is non-negotiable.
JUSTICE is non-negotiable.
BRINGING NATALEE HOME, IS NON-NEGOTIABLE.
Justice for this precious, much loved child who deserves to come home, and be embraced by the love of all her beautiful family.
#6…Again WOW…I’m thinking it all makes sense. It all falls into place with everything that happened and things that were said by all parties.
Come on ALE do something!
Janet | June 26, 2007, 12:37 pm
Yes, very curious statement by JvdS (tht is… Jan van der Straaten…).
BTW. It’s good that this “mental institution” thing comes up here. I’ve sometimes thought that one of the reasons we don’t have to expect a confession from JoranvdS is that he’s afraid of the dutch TBS system. TBS (literally: To the Disposal/Custodial Care of the State) is a part of the judicial/penal system in which criminals that acted because of a certain mental state can get in. (Don’t know how this works in the US). Even people with very minor crimes can this way wind up behind bars for the rest of their lives. So… Looking at Jorans psychiatric history… Lack of control of anger…
Janet, it surely seems that Joran has created quite a web of “tell all” about all his pals with whom he and his dad worked with, over that ever shifting notion of “no plea bargaining” memo, we were all given by his other pal, Miss Arlene E. Shipper.
And to think: Joran was promised the notion of a “mental institution” by Van der Straaten, according to Joran.
Isn’t it interesting, Janet that Joran – in his ‘tell-all’ compilation of what he calls his life, is so eager to tell about the “conversations” held out for him, while in the same breath, he claims he can’t “tell all that he knows”, and his father can’t either – out of their concern that “others” could be hurt by what they have to say?
Interesting thing I heard about sociopaths the other day: they have no regard for anyone but THEMSELVES.
And since they are pathological liars, you can’t believe a single thing they say because as always – it’s about THEM, and never the brutalization of the victims they devour.
In fact, they seek to portray themselves as the “victim” while having absolutely no feeling whatsoever for the brutalized victims they torture, because sociopaths are so consumed with just that: THEMSELVES. They feel absolutely nothing for their brutalized, tormented victims.
Janet, I wonder if Joran had a “falling-out” with Van der Straaten, or is this Joran’s way of keeping Van der Straaten’s lips sealed?
I suppose it’s a long-distance call to where Straaten is these days, and with all Joran’s dislike for being observed, perhaps he’s using ‘other means’ to get his ‘points’ across to those of whom he claims he can’t speak, while all the while, speaking quite loudly – at least, where it concerns his own self-interests.
DO THE WALLS COME CRUBLING DOWN WHEN JORAN THINKS OF NATALEE?
DO THE WALLS COME CRUMBLING DOWN, JORAN THINKS OF ALL THOSE “LOOSE ENDS” OUT THERE?
And speaking of “loose ends”,…
With all the eagerness for advice in Aruba, perhaps someone should advise Joran and his father to keep a heavy dose of Imodium on hand.
They may need it in the not too distant future.
Pearl | June 26, 2007, 12:39 pm
I think the persons that PvdS wants to protect most are JoranvdS, DeepakK and some others that got involved in this. For the rest: I put my faith mostly in the KLPD. But I’m not totaly convinced all the corruption at Aruba will be a past thing the coming years and decades…
I read that Michel Posner disappeared for that week after Natalee’s disappearance.
Human trafficing is still an option. They probably did rape her but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t abducted afterwards.
Some ppl say, no because of her popularity. That is not to say she went to a house of prostitution. Some are taken to live in a private residence.
Both scenerio’s are possible. It’s one of two, alive or no longer with us. I just wish there was an ending exploiting the truth and punishing the guilty.
Pita (#26) … Thanks for providing that quote by Bachus. I guess I’m not as senile as I think.
And Robert, I’m not arguing what can or can’t be done on Aruba or Holland. I’m just pointing out that from day one, we have been told by the Arubans that plea bargaining is not allowed on the island. Another evasion?
I’ve been talking about more of the “Pimps” being involved for some time … however, if that’s the case, I would think that Lorenzo’s house would be a more likely venue than the van der Sloot house.
What’s to say that they didn’t bring Natalee to the vdS home and put her in another car? Bingo … nobody would be out looking for that other car, if any search were being done at all they’d be looking for the Kalpoes’ car, in which she was last seen.
The van Rijn house would be the most “secure” spot imaginable for such an activity. In case anything went wrong … no nearby neighbors and nobody going to drop in for a game of chess, as it were.
The Pimps wouldn’t need to drag in Lorenzo to dispose of a body from the vdS house. They could take care of that themselves.
Who knows? All we are operating on now are theories with circumstantial evidence … if something did take place at the van Rijn house, and Natalee were somehow awake and recovering, I’m sure he would have no scruples about handing her over to one of his suppliers.
Profit in it for him; also a perverse sense of triumph over this foreign girl, this American, this attractive blond. And ample feeding of any psychological sadism to boot. (My guess is that few drug traffickers are fundamentally decent … and perhaps not even fundamentally sane.)
Let’s hope we find out.
Another thing to consider about Aruba:
From what little I understand of the drug world, the biggest hauls are made when one party ‘snitches on’ another. If I’m wrong, point that out.
Is it possible that the DEA or someone was using Lorenzo, or cultivating him, as an informant? This ASSUMES that his drug trades are actually on the level they are said to be.
But I think the DEA would draw the line at certain things.
Just wondering … is there ANY evidence, other than the word of Joran van der Sloot, that van der Straaten actually did make that offer? If Joran is as psychotic and disturbed as some think, who knows what stuff he’s throwing out there. Is there any way to prove it or disprove it?
The sketch of the perp in the H.E. Court TV Show
is a drawing of a psychic’s interpratation of
who did it.
I mean, literally, some psychic divined that up…
and blew it right out of their woodwind section.
I don’t know how much weight
you might want to put on that.
Me, not much. -j4n
41. Nothing short of asking Van Der Straaten. And if he denied it you are stuck with trying to figure which one of them to believe.
As far, as look-alikes, Lorenzo has the same receding hairline as Paulus. If you look at the picture under Aruban Who’s Who, Lorenzo driving the earthquake, he looks just like Paulus. I don’t think it’s a rumor.
If any of them think of squealing, before they do, I’m sure the thought of Pitbull will come into mind. They could probably plea-bargain, even if it were illegal, so just call it something else. No one abides by the law anyway.
What was done to Pitbull was high-profiling drug dealers. The poor guy, what more could they of done do him. That was horrifying.
36. And to think: Joran was promised the notion of a “mental institution” by Van der Straaten, according to Joran.
Comment by Pearl | June 26, 2007, 1:04 pm
_____________________________________
Pearl … this is a classic example of what the “powers that be” involved in the Natalee Holloway investigation have been doing from day one … MANIPULATING/DISREGARDING DUTCH LAW … to protect Joran and Paulus.
I have learned that according to Dutch Law it is the recommendation of a qualified professional that is taken into consideration by the ruling judge in regards to a suspect/convict’s mental state … an investigator in the investigation does not have the authority.
.
.
Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway – Page 156
June 13
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
Translation Credit: Johanna (BFN)
Again, Janet, as far as I see the only person saying that such a conversation ever took place was Joran. Who knows if he’s making the whole thing up.
Well, Robert, #37, if indeed the list were that short concerning who it is that Paulus was interested in ‘protecting’, I dare say, there wouldn’t have been such a momentous need for so much lying, so many spontaneous secret “meetings”, and such a quick rush to research lawyers and “drug reactions” amongst a few things.
In fact, it is quite compelling to consider what exactly it is that Paulus van der Sloot is hiding, particularly when you consider that not only was it nothing – for him to immdeiately lie concerning his knowledge of Natalee and HOW she could be missing, but Paulus went so far as to immediately, I might add, REMOVE HIMSELF from any involvement or KNOWLEDGE OF NATALEE.
I WONDER WHY.
Regarding Dutch “investigators”, who may also fall outside the realm of KLPD: I do believe there are good honest Dutch and Aruban individuals involved in seeking Natalee’s truth, and justice for Natlaee and her family.
There is clearly an opportunity here and now for the KLPD to restore some level of decency, dignity and trust in its’ ability to act with integrity and honor.
If this moment in time is not seized upon now, by the KLPD overseeing this case, – the ramifications for Aruba and the Dutch will be considerable, in my own opinion.
For the sake of all those victimized by the hideous criminal acts of these criminals involved with brutalizing Natalee and her family, let’s hope that the KLPD has the wisdom and the integrity to do the right thing, and to read the hand-writing on the wall.
Natalee’s truth is not going to go away.
There are too many standing right there beside her, standing their shift, willing to protect and defend her and her family. They never hurt anyone. They did not deserve this savagery and brutalization of their family, nor of their beloved child, Natalee.
For those individuals, who would stand watch over a child they never met, in order to secure her freedom to be returned to her sorrowful and suffering family, this cannot be summarized by mearly speaking about duty, nor is it mearly about the fact that so many are willing to guard Matalee, to protect her, and defend what these malicious predators LEFT of her.
This is indeed about rising up into the footsteps of all the honorable brave individuals who have gone before us, who saw fit to voice their beliefs in human rights to freedom and liberty and who took steps to carry those beliefs into acts of courage and bravery in defending these rights, defending the defenseless, the weak, and all those without any voice among us.
It is the very fabric of WHO and WHAT we are – and it makes this child’s suffering, something we together will raise up by defending her God-given right to come home, and for her family to be restored THROUGH the TELLING of their beloved child’s TRUTH.
I do hope that things will change in Aruba as a result of NATALEE’S TRUTH BEING TOLD.
This is indeed a turning point for Aruba and for the Dutch.
How Aruba and the Dutch investigators will be perceived, will indeed be determined by their own choices and actions they now CHOOSE to take.
The ball is completely and totally in their court.
It is they who must dial up the “anonymous” tip lines.
It is they who must re-shape this depraved display of savagery and indifference, not only to this precious little girl named Natalee, but to her beautiful family, who only asked that their baby be returned to them and her truth TOLD to them.
The KLPD can seize honor, embrace integrity, and eradicate the contemptable villanous conduct they know has been operative, and thus claim the sanctity of human rights for ALL Arubans and Dutch people as well as ALL POTENTIAL TOURISTS TO THEIR TERRITORIES, or they can allow to continue this deplorable display of savagery and dishonorable conduct through depraved indifference to human life,
that they know has been operative in the so-called “investigation” that yielded nothing but depravity and indifference to the human life of an American tourist -who was a CHILD, a GUEST, a visitor to one of their territories.
I know for certain in my heart that there were amazing, brave, courageous, honorable dedicated men and women standing by Beth’s side, when she first arrived on the island of Aruba.
I know for certain in my heart that the sacredness of their valor and integrity was something VERY TERRIFYING AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO A MAN LIKE PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.
AND THIS IS WHY HE IMMEDIATELY WHINED TO THE ALE ABOUT “THE FBI” SPEAKING TO HIS SON…
HE KNEW HE COULD DO NOTHING TO BUY THEM, CONTROL THEM, OR MANIPULATE THEM.
Honor, integrity, and valor will never be trinkets for “sale” when it comes to people who wear their badges with integrity, valor and honor.
Let’s hope – for the sake of Aruba and for the sake of the Dutch, that there are KLPD who measure up to the great sacred trust that the public placed in them to defend, protect and uphold the integerity and honor of the law.
Without such individuals, there will be no hope for the Dutch nor for Aruba’s society.
How compelling and powerful it is indeed, that there are “observers” who cannot be bought or sold to the highest bidder. Their honor and integrity is not up for sale. It was always NON-NEGOTIABLE.
No wonder Paulus was sweating buckets. There he was, faced with an entity that he could neither grasp nor understand. The power of such stellar agents can indeed be unsettling to the mind that can only conceive of manipulations, distortions, lies, perverse coverups, and degrading conduct.
Where would society be without the valor of those who promise to defend and protect the public safety?
Where would Natalee’s truth be, without their honor and intgegrity?
I will place my hopes in the sources from which I know that took painstaking efforts to DEFEND and to PROTECT NATALEE’S TRUTH…even before Beth set foot on that island.
Look at the pictures of Beth and Dave …look around into the eyes of the those who walked with Natalee’s family through this horrific cruelty and suffering.
The compassion in their eyes, for Natalee’s family, and their steadfast oath to defend and protect was incomprehensible to a man like Paulus van der Sloot…and that’s why the FBI was immediately relegated to the position of “OBSERVERS”, even though, they were right there, ready to help and assist, investigate and interrogate. The fact that the FBI were IMMEDIATELY relegated to “OBSERVERS” status, tells me that the “list” of those being “protected” is perhaps a little longer than simply Joran, Deepak and a few others.
If anything, it is Paulus’ response to the FBI’s presence that says mountains-full concerning the reputation of those agents on that island, because he sure knew, didn’t he – that he couldn’t BUY THEM.
NO WONDER HE WAS SO NERVOUS IN THEIR PRESENCE WITH HIS SON.
Yes, indeed.
Paulus has a great deal to sweat over, tonight.
27. Who employed the gardener? Where is that gardener now? What was a gardener doing up at 2:30am? How close would you have to be to positively identify all three in the dark of night?
Comment by minnesota dad | June 26, 2007, 12:02 pm
_______________________________________________
.
MD … all you the answers to the questions you put forth can be answered in Carlos Ramos’ own words in the court transcripts.
.
CARLOS RAMOS
Witness Statements
Important Case Documents
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=271
.
Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006
TWITTY: … Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. SHE CALLED FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.
.
Dave Holloway
Hannity & Colmes
August 9, 2005
HOLLOWAY: … Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course.
.
Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 17, 2005
MANSUR: I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit.
Yes, Janet, # 45… as always – you are right on target with your observations.
Manipulation seemed to be served on a daily basis, as was the contamination and corruption of Dutch laws.
Take for example, a man who would walk up to a sea of cameras – KNOWING THAT NATALEE WAS NEVER DROPPED OFF AT THE HOLIDAY INN HOTEL, and then proceed to tell investigators that: “SHE COULD HAVE COME THROUGH ANOTHER WAY” !!!
Or how about a man who quips that he and his son will do “anything” to “help”, but then surrepticiously slithers up to the ALE, and God only knows who else in the “Ministry of in-Justice” office, to demand that the FBI be relegated to “observer” only status…?
And what should we conclude about the whiners who don’t like to be LISTENED TO, but who demand that they only be OBSERVED?
Manipulation, lies and corruption were served daily to two brutalized suffering parents and their families, who only wanted their baby back.
And to think that one individual in the prosecutors office literally had an “about-face” commentary to make in HOURS, going from: “We do not need any additional assistance from the FBI” to …. “We requested help from the FBI”.
There was so much spin going on in Aruba, that twisters were spotted spewing from the mouths of all the powers that be “mouth pieces”, on a daily basis.
Some were F5′s right from the start.
Others were more slick, starting out as F1′s, and ending up equally destructive to all the other corrupt events taking place.
There is so much corruption to sort through, even the Aruban landfill couldn’t hold the level of maliciousness displayed in this case along with the contempt for truth and justice by those entrusted with upholding the public safety in Aruba.
The footsteps to truth are not complicated, nor is the foul revelations of dishonorable conduct.
You are so crystal clear in your observation, Janet – that from the very start, there was a deplorable manipulation of Dutch law being executed, and the shameful mouthpieces of this manipulation are as clear to the eye, as the contempt that was displayed by them for Dutch laws, truth and justice.
The legal furor surrounding Lorenzo and the others will make a fine backdrop to the appearance of Aruba Tourism Authority in New Orleans this weekend. The protest goes on as planned, and the same wonderful signs that were put to good use in Miami will be there.
Maybe the participants will get a chance to raise the issue of these arrests, and the drugs and guns … all things that the travel agents taking part need to know about the “One Happy Island.” (The event is for travel agents only.)
Robert (#35) … I don’t know about the Netherlands, but my impression is that in the U.S., this kind of mental facility, even the high-security ones, is a better place to be than in jail. I could well be wrong, but my understanding is that some prisoners play the system to get in psychiatric jails.
BTW, the New Orleans protest goes from June 27 to July 1, so it’s more than a “weekend.” My apologies.
48
With a head as big and as ugly
Joran Van der sloot’s, the uncaptured
SADISTIC Aruban Rapist / Murderer
of Natalee Holloway…
I’d be able to see that
chit at night, from a couple of football fields
away. Additionally, I wouldn’t need a
nightvision scope to hit
it dead center either.
Pearl | June 26, 2007, 2:07 pm
I agree. But I don’t know how many people are involved in this specific crime. And I don’t know how wide spread the corruption is – though I do believe there could be wide spread corruption. I’m very curious about those two things. I have relatively great trust in the KLPD and NL’s Forensic Institute that they can solve this crime and shed some light on the illegal networks on the island.
And maybe Queen Beatrix has read some of the letters that have been sent from the US and SM-posters and has pushed for a big clean up of the island. That would be a blessing for the Arubans I think.
Richard | June 26, 2007, 2:39 pm
Agree. These institutions most of the time have a less “penal” character to them. But when you only get a prison sentence you know you have to do 5, 10 or 15 years or so. When you have a TBS-sentence you could spend the rest of your life in there. So that is a horror perspective for most defendants.
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
http://tinyurl.com/ypolob
I’m to the point I don’t see the KLPD doing anything. This is not complicated unless you BELIEVE all the lies and half truths disseminated by the Aruban Authorities. This should all have been over when they were on the island. I don’t see any of the suspects “sweatin’” anything.
The Kalpoe attorney has filed the papers to release them and soon they will be unless the KLPD brings a caboodle of ‘new’ evidence.
I’m just hoping for 5-10 ‘accidents’ – ‘Arubacides’ – ‘someone to chop themselves up and lite themselves on fire’ – ‘someone to have a boating accident’ – heck I’ll even take a ‘accidental fire at CnC on Pimp Nite Reunion 2007′..
I’ll even take Joran ‘accidentally drugging’ himself into oblivion.
Waiting for the KLPD to ride in like a white knight probably will not happen. Too much to lose and too many people will have to fall.
The preponderance of evidence is astonishing … and to believe there is no case here is another lie. It all goes back to one item. Do you believe that there has ever been a case in Dutch Law where the person was convicted without a body, because if you do then this should be over and the nightmare ended. If you believe that is all a bunch of malarkey, than there will never be a case of anyone convicted without a body, the reason is simple, there is more than enough here to charge and convict these criminals in any Justice system in the world, other than Aruba and Holland. If you were the ‘supposed’ previous case of murder and conviction without a body how would you feel knowing that there CAN NOT be a conviction. You are sitting in jail on bogus charges and a bogus conviction and these criminal run free.
I’m not holding my breath. In a year from now, some will still be waiting for the KLPD to do the right thing and will be convinced it will be any second. Not me!
I need to see something that resembles a real investigation, and to date – I have seen nothing from anyone.
They will drag this case into the next century if they can and will never be held accountable for anything. Repulsive!
These are the corrupt governmental entities you read about in a novel, only this is real.
I hope the whole island sinks into the sea.
One more thing, after two years if the KLPD couldn’t arrest anyone while on Aruba, what makes anyone think they ever will?
I have seen nothing from these so called ‘experts’.
Digging up a garden and leaving the pool concrete untouched? huh!?!?!?!?!?!
Someone enlighten ME!!!!
49. … from the very start, there was a deplorable manipulation of Dutch law being executed, and the shameful mouthpieces of this manipulation are as clear to the eye, as the contempt that was displayed by them for Dutch laws, truth and justice.
Comment by Pearl | June 26, 2007, 2:33 pm
_________________________
Pearl … I agree.
.
There were manipulations/disregards for Dutch law in every aspect of the Natalee Holloway investigation … all in an attempt to distance Joran and Paulus from implication in the events of that fateful morning when Natalee Holloway went missing. The manipulation/disregard for Dutch law was evident from the get go … delayed detainment of main suspects .. interrogation procedures … compounding of vehicles … searching of VDS’ residence … gathering of evidence …
.
Beth Twitty
‘Rita Cosby Live & Direct’
December 5, 2005
and then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 — at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn.You know, we-and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.
.
Beth Twitty
ARUBAN BOYCOTT
December 12, 2005
MICHELLE: One of Joran’s and PVDS’s alibis was that Joran was picked up at the McDonald’s. JVDS originally told you the first night you met him that he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m., but he later gave a statement that he picked Joran up at 11:00 p.m. Do you know if there are security cameras in the McDonald’s parking lot to prove this claim?
TWITTY: On June 5, we asked officials to check to see if there were security cameras, and to this day, nothing has ever been done. No one has looked into it.
In October 2006, Aruba had another drug bust..5 kilo’s of cocaine..man arrested in Aruba trying to board a plane to the Netherlands. I bet there are alot of drugs setting in the free zone in Aruba. Probably came from Colombia, Caracus any of those places, hid in the free zone and then transported elsewhere. I just wonder exactly how fast Lorenzo’s cigar boat can go. I also believe the ALE knows all about this and has for a very long time. Drugs and corruption entered into the disappearance of Natalee, concealed evidence, they don’t want to be exposed.
Minister of Justice, Rudy Nudy Croes, the Dutch has never liked the job he has done and wanted to move him to the Minister of Tourism. He’s in Colombia and most likely won’t come back unless Aruba gets it’s independence, that he is pushing for. Currently he falls under the jurisdiction of the Dutch and has intervened in the investigation of Natalee and under the Dutch law the Aruban government does not have jurisdiction to do so, as of Oct 2006.
And this one really gets me, like he would even care, I can’t tell your because innocent people will get hurt, Paulus doesn’t know any innocent people. That’s garbage! The same goes for Joran.
That household is a complete wreck…the younger sons don’t have a chance of living a normal life, that is, if Joran doesn’t kill them first. Anita knows how violent Joran can be, but she just turns her head, that’s my delicious sporter! Yuck!
In the larger picture of Lorenzo,is the sun that’s in his eye, or does he have amblyopia, just like Joran?
Maybe we could get some answers if Paulus were disbarred. Whether we find a body or not, the circumstances surrounding the case, the things he’s said, caught in his own lies, self-admitting, no body no cases, he says he knows but can’t tell. He knew there was a body before we did. I can’t remember, I forgot. More lies. He isn’t fit to practice law.
Acts mentally unstable, prolonged use of marijuana can cause memory loss, in addition, to purposedly avoid answering pertinert questions. He is going to get caught, if he doesn’t starve to death first.
Maybe, Van der Straaten will offer him the mental institution. I’m sure he has violated the code of ethics.
To believe that the DEA and the FBI were on Aruba when American Hs students arrived, saw them fraternizing with known or suspected drug dealers and not intevening is something I can not believe. They have ways, that you wouldn’t believe, ie. for example some young looking agent to step in and steer them away. The FBI watches, always!
A few years ago, when my daughter was dating her now husband, they were visiting her home town on Long Island taking pictures (his hobby), then went into Brooklyn Heights and continued touring and snapping. Let me insert here, her husband looks Italian but was born in Iran, been here since the age of 3. FBI followed them from LI, to Brooklyn, ALL day. Next day they called his mother, his car was registered at her NJ home. Being she is well known, owns an art gallery in NJ, her son employed on Wall St,a registered Republican, they apologized. THAT is how the FBI is watching in a big city, a little island like Aruba is a piece of cake. That’s my first point. I DO NOT believe IF they had been watching these guys at the time, they NEVER would have allowed the demons to get near MT. Brook kids or any other American kids, much less allow Natalee to be taken the way she was. I’m sure they have agents in C&C every night.
Point 2…this little island of Aruba, where everyone KNOWS who is doing WHAT, it seems pretty far fetched that it would take these two expert agencies over two years to “flush out” the drug “King Pins”. All the while allowing an American mother suffer the pain of not knowing what happened to her daughter.
IMO, those 2 agencies could’ve snagged the “dealers” in 2 weeks…..
BTW, Lorenzo looks like PVDS because he is that piece of dirt’s son!!
I am in total agreement with those who say there were no beach, sneakers, belt, Fishermen’s Huts, belt, all decoys…the gardener too. Natalee, IMO, was taken to the Sloot home, possibly by PVDS himself when he possibly picked up both her and Joran there in early morning hours…he had his lecherous eyes on her since the Casino! He is a known womanizer, Anita was away,…..very possibly he prevailed upon his other son, when the damage was done and they took her to his house, but still had to refuse to allow a search warrant to take place in his main house, knowing full well that there would be DNA of Natalee and other evidence that a crime, rape, drugging etc, had taken place there…. Remember, a furniture truck was there within days removing and replacing household articles….a mattress?
Never give up hope but I think the arrest of Lorenzo is just to give the appearance of doing something about the terrible problem Aruba has with drugs.
I believe Lorenzo will walk or at best get a slap on the wrist and then return to his normal life of dealing drugs.
Lorenzo may have had something to do with Natalee’s disappearance but I give no hope to his confessing since I think the authorities on Aruba already have the answers but don’t want them. The only possibility is that Lorenzo can threaten them that he will tell if they don’t let him walk.
MD DAD
Your theory is a good one..If you look at the VCB Shirt/Styraphone location(Colony area) and the bloody mattress(Grapefield Beach) location they are all down south close to Lorenzo’s House. Not to mention the suspicious call on the same day for them to search a area by weg fontein rd. By looking at the map you can see how close all of this is to the refinery and jaraweg. Most of these punks were together that night and it is either Lorenzo’s House or the VDS House or both.
http://tinyurl.com/34tzz2
THIS THREAD IS FULL O’ DYNAMITE
Terrific posts — thanks to all.
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY — BOYCOTT ARUBA!!
.
“Deepak Kalpoe – Accessory to kidnap, rape, and murder
Satish Kalpoe – Accessory to Kidnap, rape, and murder
Joran Van Der Sloot – Kidnap, Rape, heavy battery, and accessory to murder. Providing False witness statements in a criminal investigation.
Guido Wever – Rape, heavy battery, and accessory to murder
Paulus Van Der Sloot – Accessory to kidnap and murder. In addition, Paulus provided false witness statements (the 6/16/2007 vanished witness statement) and interfered with a criminal investigation. Racketeering. Transporting and accessory in the disposal of a body.
Lorenzo – Accessory to murder and transporting/disposal of a body.”
This, coupled with your theory of what down and the US LE knowing the same, and the USA sits back and does nothing and doesn’t speak a peep about it to the family? And you are angry at aruba/netherlands and not the US because…
Kindteachmom – well let’s get this settled and out of the way, whichever way it falls.
You say PVDS “is a known womanizer”. Do tell where you got that info.
“Remember, a furniture truck was there within days removing and replacing household articles…a mattress?” When’s the last time you bought furniture and had it delivered? Take days…or weeks? Use common sense. And how could you possibly know anything was “removed”.
I look forward to your credible sources…
For me….
Because of the charges Yo Yo.
1. Accessory to kidnap, rape, and murder
2. Kidnapping
3. Rape
4. Murder
5. Heavy Battery
6. Accessory to murder
7. Providing False Witness statements
8. Interfering with a criminal investigation
9. Racketeering
10.Transporting and Accessory to disposal of body
—-All these charges and they know exactly what charges belong with each face? Kinda tells you they already know what happened, but prefer to attempt to make a mystery out of it. And perhaps a little money. That’s why!
#56 – If the amount of evidence is astonishing, why did the 2 US judges dismiss the WD suits? Both had latitude to rule one way or the other. You’re not saying that 2 US judges turned a blind eye to the astonishing amount evidence that clearly implicated J2K of the murder of a US citizen? I find that hard to believe.
“there is more than enough here to charge and convict these criminals in any Justice system in the world, other than Aruba and Holland.”…. and the USA.
____________________
SM: The cases were not dismissed for lack of merit, they were dismissed for jurisdictional reasons only (klaasend)
Hey Yoyo….#68
Come on buddy. If our folks are down there covertly obtaining information regarding the drug trade and what goes on in Venezuala….I think it is a pretty safe bet that there are methods they utilize which they can NEVER, EVER disclose with regard to the collection of information.
I believe the FBI did the best they could do….warn the family and government officials that this was not your run of the mill ‘runaway case/young girl in love case’.
You will recall (and has been laid out in this thread) that the Aruban delegation was very upset about ‘wire taps’ when they met with Bacchus regarding their efforts to stop the boycott of tourism to Aruba. I am sure at the same time they outlined how they were going to disclose all of the money high ranking Aruban officials had been sending to Bacchus (at least $250,000 is confirmed) if he didn’t become a cheerleader for Aruba. From that point forward, Bacchus has been worthless. He was a bought man.
I cannot be bitter at the DEA or the FBI for not divulging all they know….I know that they can’t as how they do things would blow the lid off of how they collect data worldwide. I can be bitter at Aruba for brazenly and amateurly covering up a murder.
Re: your comments to Kindteachmom in #69….Kindteachmom was incorrect in stating that the Dana’s Furniture truck was there in days. In fact, that truck was there in July 2005 —- approximately 30-45 days after Natalee’s murder. Please go easy on Kindteachmom….she means good.
md
Let’s just say, for one moment. Natalee never went to the beach, Natalee never went to Van der Sloots, Natalee never went to a party, Natalee went to Venezula, and not by choice.
Posner disappeared that week. The ex-criminal from Chicago, your suppose to have a clean record in order to operate a casino. Paulus probably did he paperwork and Van der Straaten signed it. He was involved in gambling, adult bookstores, strip clubs, prostitution, etc. He knows who the criminals are and does alot of business in his casino with the wealthy from South America. He also met Natalee. Now, how many casino’s owners would go out of their way to meet a group of girls or a girl on vacation that’s wasn’t a high roller and potential return player. Unless you had another motive. Joran, the scapegoat. Maybe Paulus and Joran have overrun their credit line at the casino and can’t pay. Or maybe this was just an opportunity for them to hit the jackpot. Periodic payouts to them in the casino. But somehow they had to separate Natalee from her friends. Joran and Paulus’s job.
Van der Straaten, I have seen the evidence, what evidence?
Our famous, I know and I will tell us someday, but not now, innocent people could get hurt. There are no innocent people.
She hit her head, on what and how?
You touched her with the car, where?
Something bad happened, what?
She ran away, where to? (That one was a total bust!)
She died of alcohol and drugs, how much and what kind?
She’s in the water, where at? Prevent the search, so we really get suspicious.
She’s in sand dunes, realiable source, final phase, where exactly? Nope, not there!
She’s in the landfill, don’t think so.
The gardner saw them, a crock, he works for Julia Renfro, friend of Anita’s. Probably took a bribe!
You can go a mental institution instead of prison. Neither of which happened. Why not, because she isn’t dead, could that be Van der Straaten?
Bust Lorenzo. This will keep them believing..They still need more convicing. But they cannot produce any evidence, because there isn’t any.
We really have to cover-up this one because we can’t loose any money on tourism.
Cannot draw any attention to our wealthy high-rollers in South America. Of which, one of them may have wanted Natalee. She’s a high-profile case, she is something everyone wants and is looking for, makes things more challenging(stick a hot poker in America)
I think Aruba has run out of options and excuses.
This is just a thought, but the island isn’t that big and I think she would of been found by now, if she was there.
There just waiting us out….
BTW…saw more bumper stickers today..Justice for Natalee
Hopefully some Arubans, will help, they want an end to this
Wouldn’t be surprised if Paulus and Joran could end up with a price on their head
MD, Well it was over two years ago, but it seems to me too that there was quite a to do about a Furniture truck arriving at the VDS home shortly after Natalee went missing.
A delivery of this sort a month and a half later would not have seemed so suspicious.
Maybe Kindteach should have added a “perhaps” after the word mattress, as that is how I read it.
Very kind of you md to ask for leniency for her, as I am sure she does mean well!
md It seems to me too that a furniture truck did arrive sooner than a month and a half, as it raised red flags to so many of us, but I am sure you are correct.
Maybe Kindteach should have added the word perhaps after mattress, as that is the way I read it.
Kind of you to ask for leniency for her md, as I’m sure she did mean well!!!!
Lorraine,
Yes, the blood soaked mattress was found in the first ten days following Natalee’s murder.
The Dana’s truck delivered in July of 2005.
I was being a little sarcastic with YoYo, as Yoyo was trying to stir things up. Yoyo’s reply ripped kindteachmom in stating that it takes more than just a few days to get furniture. Well, it did take 30-45 days for the furniture to be delivered….so thanks Yoyo for supporting the theory that Paulus was trading out DNA laced furniture as well as getting a new mattress. It does take furniture stores about 30-45 days to deliver new furniture.
md
Kindteachmom…You can have a mattress delivered the same or next day in Aruba..it doesn’t take weeks….check the internet…there are such places. Paulus made sure his house could not be searched but another reason to cause suspicion but couldn’t be proven. One of the mattresses found said it was dog blood. However, in the past, determing DNA had to be sent to the Netherlands. So how can they so quickly identify who’s blood is was.. Another POS statement.
As far as Paulus being a womanizer, that’s not an island secret. Even his behavior towards Paulus indicates where his mind is. Sent him to school with a portable cd and a cd of pornography, so he wouldn’t fall asleep in class.
Anita, surely isn’ dumb enough to believe…when she out of town Paulus watches television.
YO YO:
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
K2 and Steve Croes.
By virtue of their intentionally false witness statements and testimony.
It is a crime to submit INTENTIONALLY FALSE TESTIMONY.
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY – BOYCOTT ARUBA !!
.
12. At least, that’s what the Arubans have told us. At least one Dutch professor of law has contradicted that assertion.
Comment by Richard | June 26, 2007, 11:09 am
____________________
Apparently … since April, 2006 there has been a provision in Dutch law that does allows for plea bargaining.
.
Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRADE
July 1, 2005
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: No, no, no. No, not at all. You asked me whether a plea bargain is possible. I say no. It`s actually forbidden. What I tried to explain is that they just have to testify, if they want to, against, for instance, the co-suspect, Joran Van Der Sloot. And it is never — it is prohibited to reward such testimony
.
http://www.hugheshubbard.com/news/newspage.asp
April 2006
An interview with Jan Joosten recently aired on Radio 1 in the Netherlands. Joosten talked about a new Dutch law that for the first time will allow plea-bargaining in the Netherlands in very limited circumstances
#80…Aruba’s gov’t did not have any jurisdiction either to aid and intervene in the investigation of Natalee, but they did it anyway. The Dutch can say no, no, no but if Aruba wants to do it they will say yes, yes, yes in their cover-up way.
Remember. Michael Posner is the King of the Bums. He and his syndicate are controlling the island. Good friend of Rudy Nudy Croes and Paulus.
Croes is in Colombia drumming up business…and who knows maybe Natalee is there too, via Posner.
#71 – Yes, but both Judges, in particular the one in NY, had a precedent to got the “other way” so to speak. Both chose not to, which could have been for a number of reasons. One being not as an astonishing amount of evidence.
Mn dad – good stuff tonight. Agree on the govt covert stuff. Would love to see the pic and date on that furniture truck – I am sure someone has it. If true 30-45days after, then yes on the surface that does not look good. But it does not equal kidn/rpe/mrdr.
Hammer – not knowing aruban law, i’ll say croes yes/2k maybe but not sure.
#68…little do you know, yo yo muffin top..is there also a stud muffin?
MD – The theory is the best I seen. Does the cell phone and computer transmissions add to the theory?
It is just so scary Natalee was alone with these monsters.
If there is any solid evidence that the FBI, DEA, etc. somehow knew “the truth” about what happened to Natalee but were unwilling to reveal it because of the need to preserve their covert status, or to protect agents of their own, or for whatever other reason, I would like to see it.
This isn’t to say it couldn’t be the case … after all, some people consider my own theory that Natalee may have been taken off the island as far-fetched … but I don’t think we should work these assumptions into our ideas of what happened without proof.
The same assertions might be said of Amy Bradley or anyone else who vanishes, here or abroad.
Remember, the FBI sent a fair number of special agents to Aruba. They, or some of them, complained bitterly of being stonewalled.
But it’s hard for me to think that officials who happened to overhear communications about Natalee kept silent about it all and then allowed the others to take part in a charade.
They could, and I’m sure that they would, have made this information (if it existed) known in certain quarters. I’m inclined to be skeptical on this. It’s possible that the FBI, DEA, etc. have all sorts of secrets on Aruba that they can’t divulge … but it’s also possible that they don’t.
Basically, there’s no way to argue the point. Who here is in a position to prove or disprove it?
Brie (#73) … we’re thinking alike, although my thought is that if Natalee were indeed trafficked (an idea that few seem willing to entertain, even though after two years, there is no sign of Natalee on Aruba), it happened after Joran, the Kalpoes, and/or other “Pimps” conducted an assault.
Motives? Profit, way of getting rid of someone who wouldn’t be silenced by threats (unlike the Aruban girls), favor to drug traffickers, sheer sadism … take your pick.
Janet (#80) … This gets at the crux of the whole matter.
We’ve gotten copious postings, ad nauseam, on what Aruban law and Dutch law allow. But laws and legal systems are interpreted and enforced (or the contrary) by people.
Obfuscation seems to be the natural currency of lawyers and politicians to start. They can twist things to justify all sorts of deeds and misdeeds, missions and omissions.
King Lear: “a dog’s obeyed in office.” As we see on Aruba.
Agree. These institutions most of the time have a less “penal” character to them. But when you only get a prison sentence you know you have to do 5, 10 or 15 years or so. When you have a TBS-sentence you could spend the rest of your life in there. So that is a horror perspective for most defendants.
Comment by Robert | June 26, 2007, 3:00 pm
Jusitice will be when Joran and Paulus end up here…There is no denying they are pathological liars.
#86 – Richard…
I believe that the DEA/FBI/etc. did make known to those in Aruba that they knew more of what went down.
Why do you think the delegation from Aruba – sent to show ‘just how hard they were working’ to solve the case – spent their time pissed off about ‘Wire Taps’. I am confident that someone ‘in the know’ did let ALE in the middle of their cover-up know that we knew what was going on (my bets say we even have ‘wire taps’ of Aruban government officials which detail their misconduct in this whole travesty).
Why do you think Bacchus clammed up and suddenly was declaring that Aruba is working so hard??? Could it be because he has received at least $250,000 in questionable funds from senior government officials in Aruba??? How much more has he received that we don’t know about?
I believe our government officials know MUCH, MUCH more about what happened that night and the subsequent cover-up.
md
Well then, If Natalee died on the island, so says Van der Straaten and you have admitted to seeing the evidence, then, back up your statement. Otherwise, why make the statement!
Paulus and Joran, you’ll never find her. Why not? Back up your statement.
We hear all these things, but nobody, but nobody can physically can produce any evidence.
You want us to believe she is dead, with no support to your testament.
What you don’t want us to say is that she was kidnapped and abducted? That would be worst for tourism. Natalee never returned to the Holiday Inn, that is kidnapping. If she wasn’t, then show us the otherwise. Stratten doesn’t have any.? But yep, I’ve seen it.
I don’t doubt that Natalee was assaulted. What did they have too loose.
Abducted or dead in Aruba. Take your choice.
Kalpoes could of been part of the assault, but maybe don’t really know what happened after that. It would explain, if they find the $hit on that girl…..or, if they find that girl you’ll get 15 years?
So travel agents…Abducted or Dead in Aruba!
You should not be supporting any trips or tours to the island of Aruba. This is unjust to American’s. It’s like selling a product, knowing there is already something wrong with. Your in the money game, taking advantage of people that perhaps have not followed Natalee’s case and are not knowledgeable of the dangers that prevail. You cannot relate to the tourists that Aruba is safe. How can you consciously book a vacation there for our American’s?
There are many, many other places to visit. Support your own country.
Abducted or Dead!
What are they going to call Aruba in the future, “Croes Country”.
Aruba should know that it cannot wait anyone out.
Aruba needs tourists; US tourists don’t need Aruba.
We can boycott them for years on end.
#90 and #91 … Brie, you’re saying what I’ve been saying all along. Van der Straaten knows she’s dead, but months later puts out an advisory to nearby nations to be on the lookout for her.
Reportedly Joran broke down in jail and confessed … so we’re told … has anyone seen it? The three were let out of jail to bring police to Natalee’s body … did they?
Trafficking would be the destruction of Aruba’s economy.
A death, even a murder, wouldn’t have had the effect it has had IF PROSECUTION HAD BEEN SWIFT. So I think, anyway.
Jossy Mansur said he’s never heard of someone being trafficked from Aruba, so he doesn’t think it happened. That’s pretty conclusive evidence … it can’t happen if Jossy Mansur hasn’t heard of it. And since it hasn’t happened before, in his view, it can never happen.
(Check the U.S. State Department Web site for the Netherlands Antilles, Jossy. This year, or last year, it cited “anecdotal evidence,” which is far from proof … but probably wasn’t put on there for frivolous purposes.)
So don’t consider it as possible. True, Paulus van der Sloot, that invincible figure who has his secret info on so many people on the island, didn’t get the judgeship he wanted, and was told that he wouldn’t get it before Natalee even got to Aruba … but he fits the bill.
(“Don’t worry, General Custer, those Indians can’t hurt us … we’re the U.S. Army!)
Anyway, I don’t have any proof to offer, not even any evidence to offer. It’s only a theory, and if I hadn’t been involved with the Amy Bradley case for so long, I would be more skeptical than I am.
But if the Texas Equusearch team finds nothing in the water … then what?
(And if they do, I’m clearly in the wrong.)
MD (#88) … I’m not saying you’re wrong. I think there’s a lot of black secrets that are going on in the Caribbeans. Just today, apparently, the CIA released info about the old plot to kill Castro by giving him poisoned tablets. The CIA approached American mob figures, of all people, to do the job.
And today, Exxon and Conoco simply walked away from their investments in Venezuela, illustrating how bad things are going there. Four other big oil companies, under duress, signed over their interests to PdVSA, the state Venezuelan oil company … but these two refused.
So I don’t doubt that there are things going on, and that elements of the Aruban government probably are aware of some of them. That could explain our government’s reticence in Natalee’s case.
All that I’m saying is … IF FBI, DEA, etc. had access to communications involving Natalee on that fateful night (and what reason is there to think that the name of ‘Natalee,’ if used, or ‘the girl’ would mean anything to them? I don’t think the malefactors would spell out their plan over the phone), I don’t think that would necessarily tip them off to anything.
How many of us had heard of Natalee Holloway before May 30, 2005? The name would mean nothing to me before then.
So we don’t know what these people might have been saying to each other, but it probably wasn’t too clear. Anyway, I’m not saying that you’re wrong, but any “knowledge” of what they were listening to at the time would probably come from reconstructing things after the fact.
Let’s hope that we find out.
damn Paulus, all your kids are ugly!!!
They are all cursed with being
serial lying, drug-running, raping,
murdering, sexual predatory Van der sloot
family members! I imagine that is a wheel-barrow
load full of stuff that makes life very hard to deal
with. Sucks being you, dude! …but you’re very aware
of that aren’t you? Enjoy your day. Hugs to Anita, and a
nice punch in the face to de Sporter.
Just one more thing, and then I’ll shut up. For now, anyway.
This was in today’s news. Ignore the “sensationalist” headline, if you will, and think of this:
This girl was kept out of public sight for eleven years.
Eleven years.
We don’t know the psychological elements of this weird situation … and we don’t know who’s telling the truth, who’s twisting it, and who’s downright psycho. And nobody thinks that Natalee ran away (at least, I don’t).
But after reading this … can anyone really think it’s impossible that Natalee Holloway COULD be kept somewhere without word getting out? Especially if threatened and drugged?
I know; that it COULD happen doesn’t prove that it DID.
But I find it interesting; eleven years ….
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_World&set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=vn20070627074602606C760290
Runaway teen kept as a sex slave for 11 years
June 27 2007
Pittsburgh – A former school security guard accused of hiding a teenage runaway in his home for a decade and having sex with her has pleaded guilty and will be jailed for the crime.
He has been sentenced to at least five years in prison.
Thomas John Hose, 49, took in the 14-year-old girl and prevented her from leaving the home he shared with his parents and son, prosecutors said.
Tanya Nicole Kach, now 25, has said the two regularly had sex during her captivity.
The Associated Press normally does not name victims of suspected sex crimes, but Kach has spoken with reporters about her experience. Hose had been a security guard at Kach’s school, and she went to live with him in February 1996.
She has said she had a crush on him. She eventually revealed her identity as a runaway to a shopowner, and Hose was arrested.
Kach read from a letter during the hearing on Tuesday, her voice faltering and her eyes filled with tears. “I just want to know why you did what you did to me. Why?” Kach asked.
She said Hose took away her innocence and made her feel as though no one loved her, she said.
Hose has apologised. But he also said he remembers Kach repeatedly telling him “Thank you, without you, I’d be dead or in the streets”.
Kach said Hose did anything but help her, quoting something he repeatedly told her: “Oh, you’re just a pretty face. You’re so stupid, you’d be nothing without me.”
Kach, who is still in therapy, has finished her first semester of college, her attorney said.
Hose’s trial was scheduled to begin on Tuesday, but instead he pleaded guilty to statutory sexual assault; three counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse; two counts of indecent assault; and one count each of endangering the welfare of children, corruption of a minor, interference with custody of children and aggravated indecent assault. He was not charged with kidnapping.
Hose’s attorney, Jim Ecker, said he was pleased with the outcome, noting that Hose faced a sentence of more than 100 years in prison if convicted. – Sapa-AP
Excellent points, Brie! I’ve read and reread today’s posts and my mind is swimming. It’s mind boggling to believe that the FBI, while investigating drug trafficking on Aruba, find themselves in the midst of a slave trade operation and remain focussed on the first. This may be the way some may perceive the way US agencies operate, but it is not.
Richard, your points are well made in # 85 and 86, I will not be redundant by paraphrasing them, you’re right!!
md, you post #89, is to say the least, disheartening! You do not seem to have too much faith in our government!
89 – MD …absolutely.
And when you consider that those agents were NOT in the USA, their options were quite limited given the fact that they were in international territory.
If you examine WHAT they were able to accomplish before Paulus was able to put the squeeze on how involved they could become, and this squeeze in limiting the FBI’s invovlement was something welcomed by Aruban government officials speaking out of both sides of their mouths ( claiming the FBI was “working closely” with ALE, when in fact, the FBI was being kept on the fringes and nowhere near any evidence or investigation), it is incredible that they ( those FBI/DEA agents) were able to gather the EVIDENCE they did collect which clearly demonstrated what a bunch of liars Joran, Deepak and Satish and Paulus were, because of their lying statements, and blatant lies told by Paulus Van der Sloot along with the fact that the ALE were already deeply involved in a coverup to obstruct any investigative efforts towards finding Natalee Holloway and returning her to her beautiful family.
I think those FBI and DEA agents are the very reason why Beth was able to clearly demonstrate within 24 hours that NO DROP OFF EVER HAPPENED, NO SECURITY GUARD EVER EXISTED, AND ALL OF THEM (J2KP)WERE LYING REGARDING WHAT THEY KNEW OF NATALEE AND WHAT WAS DONE TO NATALEE.
It is one thing for the FBI to take action when events unfold within U.S. territories. There, the FBI clearly has jurisdiction.
Their hands were severely tied and limited in international territory, yet it is very clear, the Dutch could have made their access to Natalee’s case a smooth transition – yet, this never occured.
Instead, we heard the double-speak being presented by Aruban spokespersons who claimed: “FBI is working closely with our ALE” – only to have our FBI pushed into the awkward position of having to CORRECT these outright false fabrications being claimed to the media in Aruban officials corrupt attempts to make their “investigation” appear “transparent”, – all while our FBI and DEA agents were forced to WATCH this outrageous disgraceful criminal display of disregard of Natalee unfold in international territory over suspected criminal acts inflicted upon an American citizen.
There are parameters and realms to what a narcotics detective / DEA agent would be looking for and trained for in carrying out their duties – with clear limitations on what they can and cannot do, particularly in international territories and in keeping with their orders.
You can bet your boots that had they KNOWN what was unfolding, they would have sought a way to insure that Natlaee was never taken.
But to venture down this path is to become DISTRACTED BY THE FACTS AND THE TRUTH: – THEY are NOT the CRIMINALS.
In fact, it is BECAUSE OF THEM, that BETH COLLECTED PORTIONS OF NATALEE’S TRUTH, THAT ARUBAN CORRUPT OFFICIALS SEEM TO HAVE CLEARLY BEEN INTENT ON OBSTRUCTING NOT ONLY FROM NATALEE’S MOTHER AND FATHER, BUT FROM THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. This particular fact remains to be investigated, particularly when looked at against the back drop of claims by Aruba to be making “great progress” in the “investigation” that were conveyed to American officials very early on following Natalee’s abduction.
THE CRIMINALS ARE THE LIARS WHO LIED ABOUT WHAT THEY DID TO NATALEE, WHERE THEY TOOK HER, WHAT THEY DID TO HER, AND WHERE SHE IS NOW…and who told these lies in the faces of Natalee’s mother who was on the island within hours of her daughter being kidnapped.
The criminals are those who participated in the hideous cover up of Natalee’s truth, in order to obstruct her mother and father from ever seeing their beloved daughter again because of the depraved truths that would be revealed to the world concerning WHAT was done to their beloved daughter at the hands of Aruba’s most vicious predators.
Those USA FBI / and DEA agents were forced with tied hands ( being in international territory) to WATCH, as Natalee’s mother was callously lied to, and brutally victimized over and over, along with her victimized daughter, Natalee, while men with absolutely no regard for honor or integrity to the law, no less the sacredness of human rights of US citizens, spun lie after lie in their faces.
Ask yourself this: How is it that Beth was able – within HOURS of her arrival to Aruba, to:
- gather up the names of the men who took her baby away
- gather up the addresses of where those men lived
- gather up a full description of those men who took Natalee, and the car they took her precious child away in
- gather up irrefutable evidence that the men who took her baby away had all LIED regarding their claims as to WHERE they PUT her daughter..
- that NO DROP OFF EVER TOOK PLACE, THAT NATALEE WAS NEVER BROUGHT BACK TO HER HOTEL, THAT NO SUCH “BLACK GUARD” EVER EXISTED, AND THAT JORAN, DEEPAK, PAULUS AND SATISH HAD ALL LIED REGARDING THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY AND WHERE SHE WAS TAKEN.
- collect statements from three men directly invovled in Natalee’s disappearance
- get pin-pointed descriptions in statements concerning “drop off points” among other details, from two men directly involved in Natalee’s disappearance
….and much, much more…
It is astounding what those agents did…all in the matter of a few hours.
It is BECAUSE OF THEM that this little girl’s truth could not be CRUSHED by the likes of the lies that came from the mouths of men like: Joran, Deepak, Paulus and Satish.
Those agents (FBI /DEA) are most definitely a significant part of the reason why – NATALEE’S TRUTH SURVIVED, despite the callous, cold hearted execution of the “no body, no case” methods that were initiated by savage criminals, who used the “no body, no case” method to ERASE Natalee from the loving arms of her family – forever.
Those FBI and DEA agents are heroes in my opinion.
They are the first guardians with Beth, Dave and their family, of Natalee’s truth.
TRAVEL AGENTS!…it’s time to burn your brochures!
Don’t book our American’s to Croes Country….little Columbia!
YoYo Muffin – Yes, but both Judges, in particular the one in NY, had a precedent to got the “other way” so to speak. Both chose not to, which could have been for a number of reasons. One being not as an astonishing amount of evidence.>>>>>>
That’s just wrong! Let me borrow an Arlene phrase and state “you just don’t know the American justice system”. There was no talk of evidence in either of these hearings. It was not about evidence at all. Both were totally jurisdictional hearings – is there enough connection between the defendant and the US state to cause the US State to have jurisdiction.
It was not about the amount of evidence – it was totally about jurisdiction.
#99….you referred to Yo YO Muffin…that’s Anita…she’s probably out looking for Paulus….might try the San Nicholas area!
MD DAD – Best theory I’ve read so far. And don’t forget about Sander G’s missing cell phone which based on your theory might have been used to set it all up with the big “L”. Also recall the Joran to Kalpoe bro’s statement if they find the girl they will see the sh*t”. Maybe the “sh*t was the stash they just carted out of big “L”‘s house.
Aruba, you have really stirred up the waters, it’s not nice to fool Mother Nature…one Tsunami would do it. Sparing the decent, of course.
Who knows maybe something bigger will screw with you!! The Shango gods.
What can be added……awesome thread with awesome debate. Best I’ve seen in quite awhile.
Interesting article from San Antonio … five people, including women apparently (I have the suspicion that somehow this might be a factor in Natalee’s case too), indicted on sex trafficking and use of force and threats.
Well, we don’t have to worry … as we know, things like this don’t happen to Americans. Especially Americans marooned in a foreign country and drugged and raped by scum.
http://www.newschannel5.tv/2007/6/22/973383/Five-accused-in-sex-trafficking-of-girls-are-indicted
Five accused in sex trafficking of girls are indicted
June 22, 2007
SAN ANTONIO (AP) – A federal grand jury has indicted five people accused of sex trafficking of girls, the U.S. Department of Justice said Thursday.
The five, Timothy Michael Gereb, Brent Andrew Stephens, Maria De Jesus Ochoa, Consuelo Pilar Ochoa and Isabel Ochoa, were charged on Wednesday, the Justice Department said. They are accused of obtaining two minors to engage in commercial sex acts and with using force, fraud and coercion to make the two girls and another woman engage in commercial sex acts.
The five defendants were charged with conspiracy to transport illegal aliens and conspiracy to harbor illegal aliens. Gereb also was charged with brandishing a firearm in the commission of a crime, the department said.
MISSING IN ARUBA:
Natalee Holloway
Gary Makings
Amy Lynn Bradley…Missing after docking in Aruba
Richard Henriquez
Sergio Gomez…may have been found dead
FOUND DEAD IN ARUBA:
Robt Wayne Benson…found in storage container
Rene Michael Heyninger…partially decapitated
Dinesh “Pitbull” Djoengan…mutilated
? Man who drank poison
Margarita Nedd Panagud…stabbed
Galyson Lucas Winstor…shot in the head
Unknown woman…found in garbage pile
Columbian boy…found at rocks by lighthouse -7 yrs old
Raul Croes…machete in restaurant
Brazilian man…murdered
J…stabbed on beach
Joran won a large sum of money on the nights of 5/30/5/31/2005. Reported in the 5 figures by Elvis Kelly & wife Gladys. Could this be payments for services rendered for the possible abduction of Natalee Holloway? Funny how she just disappeared and Joran has alot of cash in his wallet. That’s not a coincidence!!! He calls it, I hit the jackpot!(BS) And he lies…and he lies…and he lies!
Can you help but not believe that kidnapping and abduction could not be an issue?
TRAVEL AGENTS….again, you need to burn those brochures!!
Aruba..Croes Country…little Colombia
MISSING IN ARUBA: (Another added to the list)
Willard “Bud” Larson
The money amount Joran claims he won…may of been more…but he wanted to make it believable!!!
Brie,
I have never seen that information about Joran winning a lot of money on 05/30 and 5/31. Do you have a link where that information can be found?
If true, I suppose there is a chance that Guido and Deepak were hanging around waiting for their cut since they were all together ‘gambling’ when Beth arrived on the island.
#108…Look under Arubans Who’s Who….scroll down…under Arubans of Note you will see Elvis Kelly & wife Gladys…read comments there
Brie, could you please tell me how to get to Arubans Who’s who?
_________________
SM: Here’s the link in the forum for the Aruban Who’s Who thread:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=203
(klaasend)
I see where is says that it has “been reported that Elvis has stated that he has loaned money to Joran, not vice versa, and that Joran claims he won a large 5 figure sum of money that night of 5-30/31-05.”
But, it doesn’t say where it was reported or to whom Joran made that claim. If Joran “won” that kind of money the night after Natalee went missing it should have raised a lot of eyebrows. It would have in a normal investigation.
TY Klassend! I hope I don’t get bumped off due to aol!
MD,
Your theory is very interesting. I have been wondering for the last two years why those in Aruba would go to such great lengths to protect this one Dutch boy. I think most people agree there is something more than meets the eye going on here. I also wonder why we have not seen or heard more from the Govenor General. You would think he would be out front working to get this resolved given the negative impact it has had on Aruba. But we really haven’t seen or heard much from him.
111…they don’t have any eyebrows over there!
With regard to the large sum of money Joran ‘won’ or from whatever means he got it…I recall Joran having said somewhere that he had gotten $26,000 from the Aruban gov’t for his time spent in jail.
This is not to be confused with Paulus’ lawsuit to get money for being falsely detained. Joran said this long before P ever filed that suit.
Now it could be that Joran was speaking of P’s plans to sue and perhaps his remark was futuristic, but at the time I read it Joran was saying he already had it. He had it -according to him- about the same time he left for school in Holland.
Personally, I wouldn’t doubt it if ALE/Aruban Govt paid Joran to GO TO JAIL and take the heat off the case. I wouldn’t doubt it Joran’s jail time was a ruse.
#115…Joran’s jail time a ruse…very good point! And how many times did Joran indicate that he didn’t mind being there. Guess not, if you got $26,000 for your stunt. Really good thinking disgustedmom. Could it be one more time we were deceived?
#ll5, i think we would have heard if there had been a lawsuit filed by jvds over his 3 mos. incarceration. how could he have gotten compensation for that if paulus couldn’t even collect? imo, that’s just another one of jvds’ lies trying to make himself look better than he is.
dennisintn
Something else that has come to mind today … we’ve all heard about Joran’s comment that he had sex with Natalee while she was “drifting in and out of consciousness….”
How is it, then, that someone at Joran’s school reported scratches on his face the day after Natalee vanished? (I’m taking this from memory, which is highly fallible.)
Someone who is vaguely conscious would not be in a position to resist anything.
Can we presume that Natalee woke up and fought back? And that Joran dares not say that he and, perhaps, other Pimps decided to consign her to a living Hell because they knew that letting her go would ruin them?
Only an idea ….
Does anyone know who Lorenzo’s lawyer is … assuming that he has one?
It would certainly raise eyebrows if that unfortunate soul were from the law firm for which one Paulus of the Ditch works….
Brie, it would not surprise me if we were deceived by Joran’s going to jail. Nothing crooked surprises me as this case goes.
Dennisintn….it’s not my thinking that Joran sued for the money. My feeling is that he made a deal ahead of time, or rather P probably made it for him….and it wouldn’t surprise if it wasn’t the VDS’s idea either. Joran’s remark was that he got paid for being in jail….$26,000.
My first notion that the jail time was a ruse came when Anita said she thought her boy would be safe in jail. Safe from what? Safe from running his mouth all over the island and accidently spilling the whole pot of beans to laypersons who unlike the authorities might not ‘lose’ statements? Anita made that remark after -I think it was NBC?- got inside the jail and talked to Joran. She clearly didn’t want him talking to the media. She thought he would be safe from talking too much. To me, this could mean Anita agreed to Joran going to jail where he would be safe from talking about the case. Following that, it sounds like someone advised her Joran needed to be locked away for his own good.
In jail,too, he could be trained what to say and what not to say. It’s just a possibility in my mind.
They say there is no plea bargain in Aruba…but another form of it could be that they traded Joran his freedom for his part in Natalee’s disappearance by spending time in jail looking like he was the main suspect while the others involved got cleanly away while the world focused on Joran and with Joran in jail he couldn’t talk to all sorts of people.
There had to be others involved and Joran may have been their willing whipping boy. That little dunce Joran is not smart enough to remember to pick up his shoes. And I think someone is controlling his lies for him because I don’t think he’s smart enough to make up any lie that makes any sense.
The money he was paid…allegedly paid…might have been to compensate for not being able to use his scholarship to that Uni in Florida. The money may have been to pay for his schooling in Holland. Didn’t Deepak comment to Joran during that taped cop car ride something about ‘there goes your scholarship’ and laughed? And didn’t Joran answer something like ‘we’ll see’. (maybe someone can find the transcript)
I personally think it’s possible they put Joran in jail and deliberately left him there until he had to start school in Holland to keep him off the streets where he might ruin everything they were trying to cover up. And I think Mamma and Pappa VDS thought it was best.
To add to the problem I have with Joran’s ‘jail time’….there is no reason why he should have been let out. He admitted he was the last one with Natalee/a tourist and she is missing. He admits he did not take her safely back to her hotel. I thought that was a crime in Aruba, that if a local takes a tourist off and said tourist goes missing it’s considered kidnap. So, Joran should have been up on kidnap charges and not let go just because ALE coudln’t find evidence that he committed an additional crime.
Don’t forget disgustedmom….Joran admitted to having sex with a person who was coming in and out of consciousness. I believe we here in America would call that RAPE.
Why would you not fully prosecute a rapist?
md
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/26/local/news7.php
Interesting that a sailboat(Methusela) and a go-fast boat(anyone know the name?) carrying 3 people were caught by Aruban Coastguard smuggling 176 kilos of pot on the same day. Street value would range from $500K – $1.5M…pretty substantial haul. Wonder if there was a link? 1000 plants is no small amount either, lots of weed around a tiny island
MD, to your comment above ~ That’s what we’d all like to know!!!
Why was that not done? Any one have answers?
I agree, minnesotadad….Joran admitted to rape! What did they assume? He was lying?
Shouldn’t he have had to prove he raped Natalee then? I mean, if not then what? He gets to continue harassing the cops with possible lies? He just gets to say he did any thing and give the cops the runaround? Giving false statements could be added to the list of things Joran could have been charged with if he couldn’t prove he raped Natalee like he said he did.
Can we add to giving false statements, rape and kidnap- obstruction of justice too? Is it just Ok and fine in Aruba to lie to cops who ask you specific questions about a case? Admit to it and just go free AFTER it caused 2 innocents to be arrested?
They knew Joran, 2k and Steve Croes lied to the cops on purpose. Why didn’t all of them serve time right away? Why did ALE let these simpleton boys play cops and robbers with them? Had to have been the decision of the prosecuting attorney or else her boss calling the shots.
I’ve been giving some ‘out of the box’ thinking to this drug bust thing. Here’s my ‘out on a limb’ thoughts…
It could not have been a secret that Lorenzo was dealing drugs for a very long time. So why arrest him eventually? The answer could be because someone stopped getting their share?
Why would someone stop getting his share? Well, one only gets a share to keep quiet, but once you get something else on that individual you can use that as leverage instead and keep your money.
So what else might Lorenzo have gotten on any alleged person who may have been on the take? How about Lorenzo could hold it over them that he knew they were involved in a coverup of Natalee’s disappearance?
It amazes me how easy it seems to be to get the cops on Aruba by their metaphorical balls. Corruption within the system makes that possible, of course. But Joran was able to do it too. Little ole nobody Joran could lie and run the cops crazy and in situations where they really could have filed charges on him, they let him toy with them as if they had no choice. It’s like Joran had something on the system besides that ‘they’ LET him gamble and drink illegally.
Why did they let him gamble and drink illegally anyway? Was it everywhere or just at certain places? That would be interesting to find out. It might make a circle of sorts.
Does anyone know when Tim is going down for another search of the Ocean?
121 – To add to the problem I have with Joran’s ‘jail time’….there is no reason why he should have been let out.
….
Absolutely! The protection over Joran and the Kalpoes
has been completely ridiculous. That is why I feel they will
be found late some night soon in a dumpster, with bullet
holes in their foreheads.
Many people have had enough!
NOBODY EVER DID A REAL INVESTIGATION. THE WHOLE THING HAS BEEN A FARCE FROM THE WORD GO. IS THIS WHAT WE HAVE REDUCED THE VALUE OF AMERICAN LIFE TO?
I DON’T THINK SO.
I think somebody will can ‘em, bag and toe tag ‘em, and
that day is not too far off. -j4n
Hmm, disgustedmom, you mae several very good points. To begin with he lied under questioning by Police. According to Aruban law it is legal for a suspect to lie…..but not a witness to lie. Second, over a year ago we went around and around with the theory that Joran admitted to having unconsensual sex with Natalee, therefore he raped her, a supposed source of Aruban Law at that site informed us that for a minor (under 18..he was 17 at the time) the penalty would probably be a few weeks in Jail…and being he was already in Jail, THAT would be considered “time served”.
Joran had won money that night at the Casino, a sum originally thought to be under $200. Paulus, however, had to leave his job the next day (according to Paulus) to deposit Joran’s winning in the bank. Later, there was indeed a rumor that the winnings were of a 5 figure nature. Which would make more sense for the rush, by PVDS to the bank!!
Joran has openly made the statement that he knows what happened that night but will only tell when he feels ready. That, in itself, should keep him behind bars!! He should have been brought into a courtroom, before a Judge and made that statement…..oh, wait….it’s Aruba, maybe they don’t hold people in contempt!
Yeah, Lorraine. I’ve never understood how Joran could say he would tell the whole story later and not have to tell it right then.
Add to the list of Brie (105)
Jose Manuel Vicenzo Tromp, missing since 27 november 2007. He is a jailer (cipier) at the Correctional?? Institude of Aruba.