Binge Drinking and Sniffing … A Major Concern on Aruba so says The Red Cross … Could It Have Played a part?


The Red Cross is concerned with sniffing and binge drinking in Aruba. This is a rather interesting comment coming from the Red Cross in Aruba. One wonders what would possess individuals to binge drink or inhale petrol, glue or paint thinner products. A rather peculiar comment was made by the Red Cross in the below Amigoe article that makes many ponder possible scenarios to why Natalee Holloway went missing.


There were in additions several accidents due to alcohol abuse and sniffing of substances, like alcohol mixed with petrol, especially amongst teenagers, said Greg Peterson, chairman of the Red Cross in Aruba.

This abuse causes aggressiveness and the Red Cross is not happy with this.

We know that the three suspects were drinking at Carlos N’ Charlies. We also know that CnC1Carlos N’ Charlies is infamous for getting its patrons drunk, like HERE, HERE and HERE. We also know that Joran Van der Sloot admitted that he bought Natalee Holloway 151 rum. Many had questioned that 151 was a rather strange choice of drink to order a girl. Is it though if there is a culture in Aruba among some teenagers who binge drink and abuse alcohol, especially those that would frequent C&C one to three times a week.

There we bought a “Yard Whiskey Coke”. Such a drink costs U.S. $ 12,-. It is a plastic cup and it comes in different colors. I payed for all three drinks. I got a red cup but I do not remember now what color cups Deepak and Satish got.

When Natalee got onto the bar I thought that she was drunk. I could clearly tell Bacardi rumthat Natalee had been drinking. I could smell this from the smell that came out of Natalee’s mouth. I also have to say that when I saw Natalee dancing I also noticed that she had been drinking.

 After that Natalee and me walked to another bar that was still open at that time. I asked the bartender two shots of Bacardi 151. I still had the whiskey coke in my hand. Natalee asked me if she should drink the Bacardi 151 in one go. I answered her affirmatively and she answered me that she would do it in two. Natalee said to me that she needed a “chaser” in order to drink the Bacardi. Natalee drank my whiskey coke as a “chaser” and then she drank the Bacardi 151 in two goes. I payed for the two shots of Bacardi 151. (Joran Van der Sloot, PROCES-VERBAAL – JORAN 6/9/2005)

One can only imagine what could happen if “sniffing” occurred by those suspected of Natalee’s disappearance that night as the mixture causes aggressiveness. Things to ponder. Now factor in the use of roofies … truly something to think about.

Amigoe, January 22, 2007: Red Cross busy during torchlight parade. Concern about sniffing and binge drinking 

Greg Peterson, chairman of the Red Cross, is concerned about alcohol abuse and sniffing during carnival.

ORANJESTAD – The Red Cross was so busy during the torchlight parade on January 6th last, that they call up the population to behave more responsible during the next parades.  The binge drinking symptom and sniffing cause many problems. 

The Red Cross had 30 volunteers patrolling the route in order to give and call in assistance on site.  Three of the volunteers manned the ambulance.

They have assisted as much as 48 people with problems like hyperventilation, low blood sugar level, high blood pressure, and fever during the parade and after. 

There were in additions several accidents due to alcohol abuse and sniffing of substances, like alcohol mixed with petrol, especially amongst teenagers, said Greg Peterson, chairman of the Red Cross in Aruba.

This abuse causes aggressiveness and the Red Cross is not happy with this.

Of the 48 victims, as much as 10 had serious symptoms of alcohol poisoning.  There was also a case of stabbing, and this person had to be rushed to the hospital.  The Red Cross calls it remarkable that the aggressiveness of drunks often aims at bystanders and even at relief workers. 


Sniffing is a generic term for gases coming from petrol and glue or thinner products.  It is being used to get a short but strong euphoric feeling (be High).  It is very dangerous for the health; it hurts the brains; it can cause physical and mental damage that are irreparable; it affects the heart; it causes acute nausea and nose bleeding, liver, lung, and kidney problems.  When chronically used, it damages the muscles.  It can also cause immediate death by suffocation or heart attack.  The symptoms of binge drinking are life threatening for the consumer and for bystanders or the family.  It can ruin a special event.

“Let’s act responsible and enjoy together”, says Peterson. 


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  • Comments

    125 Responses to “Binge Drinking and Sniffing … A Major Concern on Aruba so says The Red Cross … Could It Have Played a part?”

    1. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 10:29 pm

      Wouldn’t surprise me one bit … especially as I think other Pimps were involved as well.

    2. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 10:30 pm

      And possibly Joran is not the only one in the group with, apparently, psychopathic propensities.

    3. Elaine on January 23rd, 2007 10:47 pm

      Huffing causes brain damage, and something is wrong with Joran, that is for sure!

    4. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 10:53 pm

      Yep! And those psychopathic propensities come out through the use of depressants, like alcohol, which has been known to cause mood swings.

      Sniffing? I’ve heard it’s even worse, as it causes brain malfunction.

    5. Allan K on January 23rd, 2007 11:07 pm

      Joran and Paulus are retards and criminals. Oduber also. Could we please get justice for Natalee and some kind of resolution for parents. Joran is violent without any artificial help. The Dutch cops remind me of ALE. Complete inaction except to cover-up details and destroy evidence.Lets bring in Stratten and a few key people and this would be over. This tells me nobody has any intentions on doing anything on this case. Aruba the island of sexual deviants,murderers,liars,indecency,
      criminals,drugs-crack shacks,peeping toms,some idiots, bought-bribed ALE,Mr.Pink porno films along with the carlos and charlies Levy brothers kiddie and adult porn.

    6. yoyo muffintop on January 23rd, 2007 11:13 pm

      So she bought her a shot of 151, so what. I am pretty sure most teenagers are aware of what a shot of 151 does to ya. Maybe it’s the island’s version of jager. And huffing gives the same type effect, but stronger, as doing a wippet(or ballon or whatever you’ve heard it called). Ever go to a Dead concert – same thing. Most of these huffers are “brain dead”.

      But I will give this tidbit: “Adult abusers often inhale substances in order to enhance their sexual experiences.”(NDIC)

    7. Scared Monkeys on January 23rd, 2007 11:20 pm


      151 is not a normal drink for a teenage girl. Not in the slightest. Joran bought her 151 to get the maximun amount of alcohol into a person who had already been drinking that he could. That was the point.

      If there is a culture of binge drinking which the article suggests then 151 would be the alcohol of choice. That is the point.

    8. MOLLY on January 23rd, 2007 11:23 pm

      I don’t doubt that Joran bought drinks of power unknown perhaps to Natalee, however, she was a contributor. She was
      looking for an exciting evening with Joran and put herself in that position. I don’t know what happened to Natalee, but
      I do feel she wanted more. She was not the Angel portrayed.
      Still I don’t think she deserved to be harmed by someone unknown. The boys are suspects only, there is no proof that
      would even hold up in an American Court.


      SM:   Note:   This is NOT Molly (in Houston) (klaasend)

    9. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 23rd, 2007 11:28 pm

      “Sniffers” are called “huffers” by law enforcement. They loose about 30 I.Q. points in 3 months. They can go from honor student to “retard ” in 6 months. They begin to act like 3 some bodies we know.

      To Miss-Underestimated,

      Yes, I do recall hearing about the porn, but I don’t remember who or where. Carpe did some photos from the screen playing in one of the photos of D’s car.


      That’s what I believe too, that they buried Natalee at the landfill, they saw Junior watching them and they moved the body to the cemetery. Junior said they put the body under a child’s swimming pool, and he described the pool. When Dave started looking, he found the pool, as Junior described. I’m 85% sure on this.

      Natalee’s body could have been moved to another part of the landfill. This is one possibility. She would be difficult or impossible to find. It could be done. In the U.S. it would be done.

      The thing that worries me is that Art Wood interviewed Junior and he said he was lying. I think they gave him a polygraph, and Art said he was lying.

      However, I believe Junior. I saw the video, and I’d bet a thousand dollars he was telling the truth.

      Much has been put out to discredit Junior i.e. “he’s a liar, he is a crack-head, he only wants the money,” but look what has been said about Beth, and we know all the bad stuff in just hogwash.

      In my opinion, Junior was not only telling the truth, but he believed what he was saying. Let me give you and example. Jimmy Carter was a good man, excellent character. He always told the truth, but he didn’t always believe the very words that were coming out of his own mouth. Maybe I’m the only one old enough to remember his “fireside chats,” but Jimmy would keep telling the public that things would get better, that inflation would slow, that home sales would come around, that the interest rate would drop, that employment would rise; but he didn’t believe it himself. I could tell, everyone could tell. Junior believed (not Jimmy, but himself). If he didn’t believe, I’m a monkey’s uncle (I may very well be, but that’s beside the point.)

    10. yoyo muffintop on January 23rd, 2007 11:40 pm

      SM – You gotta get out in the bar scene more often. The trend is the strongest shot you can get. And most women will drink it in 2, the guys 1. That’s what the millennials and echo-boomers are drinkin’.
      And just so no one says it(but I’m sure some will) – doing a shot of 151 does not make you resposible for any harm that becomes of you.


      SM: Whatever … you are the expert. I know I am just a shut in. You are the all-knowing. I guess I don’t need to remind you that NH could not legally drink in a bar in the US. I also doubt that 151 was on her list of drinks.


    11. Carpe Noctem on January 23rd, 2007 11:41 pm

      What did she want more of??? Drugs slipped
      in to her drink by 1 of the three most notorious
      gangaraping, filthy, wanna be gangstas of Aruba?

      They raped her, they obstructed justice.

      These things can and will be proven. Joran even discussed
      this with his mother how he raped her…

      …and Anita then
      told Greta & Beth.

      The Van der Sloots
      are gosh awful.


    12. dave on January 23rd, 2007 11:43 pm

      yoyo muffintop = “brain dead”

    13. JusticeforNatalee on January 24th, 2007 12:01 am

      Natalee made her intentions clear that she wanted to go
      back to the Holiday Inn.

    14. Mike on January 24th, 2007 1:10 am


      you sound like you are speaking from experience. i guess that explains a lot of your comments other than plain stupidity.

    15. Patti on January 24th, 2007 1:21 am

      Drunk people are no fun. They get obnoxious and piss people off. When someone calls them an ass, they want to fight. Soon, they are sitting on the floor, barfing in the toilet. They go to bed while the room is spinning and wake up wanting to do it all over again.

    16. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 1:34 am

      Please forget that total bs….No one, not i nor anyone on this board would or ever did call Natalee an *angel* for Crying Out Loud!

    17. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 1:44 am

      You people are hung up on that i don’t get it. Aruba is advertizing wanting to lure Americans back there yet you ARE saying that since she wanted to party & live it up on her last night to be on vacation for four years that somehow she deserved what these young men did to her.

      Thats f’n crazy huffer talk!

    18. Patti on January 24th, 2007 1:48 am

      She wasn’t an angel, but she was innocent.

      Waterboy, Jerry:

      I think that you’re right about alot of things, but I don’t think that Paulus raped Natalee, nor do I think that he killed her. I do think that he was instrumental in seeing to it that his son not be held responsible for his actions and in that regard did more than just a few things that are against the law. But, I also think that the reason that he was successful in protecting his son was because he knew alot about the many “illegal” things that go on in Aruba, by the very ones that are in charge. They all were trying to save their necks by keeping Paulus happy and thereby assuring his silence.

    19. Patti on January 24th, 2007 2:01 am


      It is just unimaginable that a father would be a willing participant in a sexual assault upon a young lady WITH his son and his friends. To me that is just too much to even comprehend.

      But, who knows, you may be right.

    20. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 2:28 am

      Paul is chatting Natalee up in the casino & hours later he’s calling her “a body”. Paules DID the unimaginable.

    21. Frank on January 24th, 2007 2:50 am

      Premeditated Paulus is worse than that Patti, and it wasn’t the first time.

    22. ernest on January 24th, 2007 3:46 am

      DUDE!!! at least they do not sniff CRANK like they do in the states where u have a bunch of white trash midwestern losers sniffing battery acid and perm solution up their noses….but all is well in the good us of a right???/?come on!!!!!

    23. Skyboxx on January 24th, 2007 5:38 am

      Me thinks YO-YO was at least giving us the nod that Paulus was involved…..”But I will give this tidbit: “Adult abusers often inhale substances in order to enhance their sexual experiences.”(NDIC)”

      Justice for Natalee. There is more than just a drinking problem on that island. There is obstruction of Justice, cover ups, lies and an indeterminate amount of corruption in LE and probably the government.

    24. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 24th, 2007 7:19 am

      To Patti,

      I’m at a quandary here, Patti, the father in me doesn’t want to believe that Paulus had anything at all to do with what happen to Natalee, but when I see that video of Paulus reaching for Natalee in the Casio I start to think that he is no normal father.

      If what happen to Natalee was an accident, then I can see a father trying to cover for his son; but then most any accident could be explained and believed by the public and law enforcement.

      When a father apparently went to as much trouble as Paulus did to hide, cover, and dispose of evidence; then I start to question Natalee’s death and the father’s part in that death.

      You understand that for me to come to a point where I believe that Paulus actually was a participant (and I’m just implying this) is a full 180. I know that Minnesota Dad has come right out and said he was, but if you will read carefully what I have written, I try to let the reader decide and I’m only offering speculation. I haven’t let my mind go completely that way, yet.

      What was the motive for Natalee’s death? Was it robbery? She had only $50 or rather what was left over from $50 dollars. She had nothing of real value, except herself. The driving force behind her apparent death and disappearance was sex. Nothing else fits.

      When I look at Paulus I see a man whose whole life is centered around two driving forces, sex and money. I’m a capitalist by nature, and I can see the money. I’m a man. I like sex, but it’s going to be with one woman, and that’s my wife. I’ve spent my whole life taming and controlling that part of my life, especially my thoughts. Paulus has apparently just let the tiger roam where it will, with no call to decency, with no chair and no whip to tame the beast.

    25. Richard on January 24th, 2007 7:30 am

      Molly, you say that Natalee “was looking for an exciting evening with Joran.” I would appreciate your substantiating that. My guess is that she was friendly to him because (a) he had been hanging around the group misrepresenting himself as another tourist, from Holland; (b) young people tend to be friendly anyway; and (c) I suspect that being polite to others was part of the way she was raised.

      I don’t know that she was an “angel,” and I hope she’s not one now if such things exist. However, if she had been carnally interested in him, there would have been ample opportunities while he was hanging around with the group.

      Haven’t heard any evidence in that regard.

    26. Miss-Underestimated on January 24th, 2007 8:32 am

      Aruba does lure young Americans with booze and gambling.
      Both which you have to be 21 in the states. BTW Aruba has nothing else to offer, the island is soaked with rapists and murderers, and add to that the a large percentage of her citizens find living there so depressing they committ suicide in a manner which baffles all.

      Natalee was going to have a good time a-hole it was her last night in Aruba, ( and her life) but she was not counting on the likes of these bastards, and what they had is store for her, more than likely being over-served, drugged and now we hear about the cleaning fluid.
      Anita even knew Natalee was going to be in trouble with her son, why’d she ask why Natalee would even get in a car with Joran?

      She thought she was getting a ride to the HI by some Dutch student from Holland on a vacation. She was targeted, as clearly seen on the casino videos.

    27. Miss-Underestimated on January 24th, 2007 8:51 am

      ” Your own father?”
      “No body no case”
      “If they find the girl and find the sh*t”
      “The girl drowned”
      “something bad happened to Natalee”
      “The girl fell and hit her head”
      “I left her on the beach”

    28. JusticeforNatalee on January 24th, 2007 9:27 am

      #8 Molly

      Perhaps you are talking about your own desires or manner of behaving.

    29. JusticeforNatalee on January 24th, 2007 9:33 am

      “I do feel she wanted more. ” quote by Molly

      Molly, who are YOU to say this?

      As I stated, maybe you are trying to push your own behavior or way of thinking onto Natalee.

      No one said that Natalee was a nun. However, I bet you could not begin to hold a candle to her.

      Don’t even get us started about the evidence. Ten Days. TEN DAYS head start!

    30. JusticeforNatalee on January 24th, 2007 9:36 am

      “I’m going back to the Holiday Inn with them.”

    31. vicki on January 24th, 2007 10:04 am

      #8Molly, were you in lieruba “sniffing” cause lord knows you are talking out of your butt.

    32. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 10:33 am

      Ernest, line 2,
      it’s time to go
      back to camp!

      Good Old Two Faced Aruba

      Come dance in Aruba!

      … we say it is safe, but we don’t
      even believe ourselves!


      No, there is no reason to believe me.


      If you wind up raped our dead, we blame it on you! It
      is a longstanding Aruban tradition.

      FACT- Natalee was of legal drinking age in Aruba
      and not breaking any law whatsoever.

      FACT- The Van der Sloot sex predator carnivore
      was drinking and gambling, underage
      according to the letter of Aruban law.
      Joran was breaking the laws. Joran was
      out until all hours of the morning
      slamming down Jack & Cokes like they
      were going to stop making whiskey for good
      next week.

      Joran was the one gambling for cash @ 17.
      Natalee was on VACATION and having FUN.
      She was not breaking any laws.
      Joran was at home, acting and doing the things
      that he normally does… stalking, and gangraping
      unsuspecting female tourists on their last
      night on the island. Probably to catch it
      all on video & upload it to his website.

      This way he could share his golden moments
      with his ghoulish friends & his stinking garbage sack
      of a father! Talk about a PEER TO PEER NETWORK,
      sheesh! Come dance in Aruba, friend! -J4N

    33. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 10:51 am

      But I will give this tidbit: “Adult abusers often inhale substances in order to enhance their sexual experiences.”(NDIC)

      Comment by yoyo muffintop | January 23, 2007, 11:13 pm


      Good point, yo yo! …and it is known that
      Joran the sex predator is in to rough sex… like sado and
      bondage nasty type stuff. Do you think he
      could have been huffing also?

    34. Richard on January 24th, 2007 11:42 am

      Let’s not turn our anger against each other, folks.

      Also, we have to remember … the only testimony that we have up above is from JvdS himself, whom we can imagine is not a disinterested party. It’s clear that Natalee had been drinking, but didn’t most of the Mountain Brook kids say that they didn’t see her acting outrageously?

      And we do know from the photos that we’ve seen that she didn’t appear to be severely intoxicated.

      So considering that the suspects and PvdS had several uninterrupted days around the pool to come up with stories … we don’t have the slightest clue whether what Joran is saying up above, about how Natalee drank her drink and his, is true or false.

    35. SUPER DAVE on January 24th, 2007 12:09 pm

      anybody that would watch rape videoes has a sick mind. and just as a reminder, daddy sweaty sloot removed these videoes from junior sweaty sloot’s computer. a proven act of guilt. daddy was watching them too ! he already knew they were there. tampering of evidence ! probably watched them before they committed the crime . all planned to a t.

    36. Miss-Underestimated on January 24th, 2007 12:17 pm

      I don’t think that is our Molly?

    37. Patti on January 24th, 2007 12:19 pm

      Waterboy, Jerry:

      I agree with you, it is hard to imagine a father participating in such an activity with his son and his son’s friends, but who knows? There are some pretty sick people out there…

      It’s just so hard to imagine.


      For some reason, I thought that you were on the island during the searches. But that’s okay… I am pretty sure of myself when I say that the employees at the Holiday Inn liked Natalee and were shocked when she came up missing. I am also pretty sure that the witness, a hotel employee, had given her statement to police very early in the investigation.

      It’s hard to dismiss the fact that all the witnesses that reported suspicious activity all reported seeing… a white pick-up truck. Does Guido drive a white pick-up, or Elvis? Somebody does.

    38. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 12:32 pm
    39. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 12:33 pm


      I believe

      The all caps MOLLY is a psycho troll.

      Molli (In Houston) is our friend.

    40. Richard on January 24th, 2007 12:44 pm

      Is registration on this forum case-sensitive? I.e., could there be both a MOLLY and a molly? or is it mollie?

      I dunno ….


      SM:   There is nothing to stop more than one person using the same name.   There are 2 different MOLLY’s posting.   I’ve placed a note under the one that is NOT Molly (in Houston) (klaasend)

    41. Miss-Underestimated on January 24th, 2007 12:49 pm


      Nope not our Molli,
      That’s molly the troll.

      Carpe, such a nice father and son picture.
      Remember that saying, the apple don’t fall far from the tree?

      I wonder is tourism up today in Aruba? Is Scarem Jaansen leaving the island or staying?

      I checked out the beach at Aruba on the cam, one person on the beach and I think he was trying to swim off the island. But check out the Cayman reefgrill web cam, the beach is loaded wall to wall with toursits spending $$$$.

    42. Roy on January 24th, 2007 1:03 pm

      Patti: I’ve given some thought about your claim of a phone call instructing MB kids to turn off their phones and how it’s not talked about much…perhaps it should be. Not necessarily sinister but certainly a display of mixed-up priorities.
      If indeed a MB kid was at an after-hours party, I would venture to speculate that he was being set up for blackmail, a plan that probably took root a couple of months back….We’ll leave it at that and save that discussion for another day. But, what happens to Natalee flips the script….We nit-pik about the possibility of (1) phone call, but I imagine there would have been many calls that night….A phone call to the chaperone instructing him to collect the MB phones, turn them off, or whatever does not necessarily have to be sinister…only that they were coming to Aruba to get Natalee themselves…..Damage Control….I think from the family perspective, they fully expected to find Natalee well or to be under medical treatment…. They found the Sloots residence in very short order and iffn I understand correctly, Beth remained in the car…so she was probably out of earshot of everything being said….I would think time was of the essence because Dave Holloway was on his way. Meanwhile…..
      Dave’s trip to Aruba was less managed…When he does find his way into the Noord station, he is stalled big-time by Aruba’s own Fat-Bastard…Remember the Details as provided by Dave….he basically had to wait forever….Then, the pig ask’s Dave, How much money do you have?…… Think about that for a second…. Did someone from the first entourage pay Dennis Jacobs to stall Dave Holloway? If so, That would make Dennis Jacobs the very first Aruban to make money off of Natalee Holloway… That’s the tell-all…Everyone is looking to get paid.
      Remember the story of Dave Holloway digging thru Aruba’s garbage looking for his daughter only to have Aruba throw more trash on top….Other than being simply evil, the only reason to do this was to keep him busy while others constructed false time-lines, made-up stories like the security guards, etc till they were ready to locate “officially” Natalee and the circumstances of her death. They set this up at the rocks.

    43. vicki on January 24th, 2007 1:07 pm

      miss-u, you really make me laugh with your humor. One tourist but he is trying to swim off the Island.hahahahaha
      Carpe, who is the last pic of???
      In case you havent read the 24th of june statement of URINE, go to BFN and check it out.
      Urine states that he is waiting for his father to give his statement and then he will make his. also that if he keeps making statements he could bring his father into trouble???
      IM SO SICK OF THIS BS. What a FILTHY PIG to discribe what other girls did to him and with him. This has been going on a long time.TIME TO FINISH THIS.

    44. Miss-Underestimated on January 24th, 2007 1:21 pm

      Roy LOL Aruba’s own FB

    45. Roy on January 24th, 2007 1:26 pm

      THE ROCKS:
      Well, If all this cross-blackmailing is happening as I suspect, there would have been people opposed to the cover-up plan that was being implemented at the rocks. They would have need certain assurances that people held up their end of the deal….They would have filmed the rock crew doing their deed……Then the announcement by Oduber that it wasn’t in Aruba’s interest…. In short, that meant, “No deal”, and the rock crew was left with nothing to do but paint it over….Like it or not but politically savy.
      He’s got them on tape….He assure’s himself no political opposition come September and all the corporate members of AHATA who stood to loose mucho dinero from the consequences of this case, turn Natalee Holloway into their very own Cash Cow. This video was not made to defend the likes of two security guards but for the purposes of Blackmail. Blackmail that now seemingly runs straight thru Bacchus’s office….

    46. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 1:26 pm

      I wish someone could find & pull up Jipshit’s web page that Paules deleted. That page would blow the lid off this case & put alotta people in jail. Maybe Paul is in the video’s.

      Its findable but i’m not that pc savy & haven’t had any luck.

    47. Richard on January 24th, 2007 1:26 pm

      Roy, one thing I don’t understand … why would a Mountain Brook teenager be thought important or wealthy enough to make him or her worth blackmailing? None of the people in the group were well-known or excessively well to do, as I understand; they would have been just another high school tour group.

    48. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 1:34 pm

      Hi Roy-

      Good to see ya posting, pal…

      I haven’t heard anything about that. Do you have any
      links that I could have so I could read up on it?

      There could be a good reason for those
      cell phones being turned off. All cell phones
      circuit boards have a Global Positioning Chip
      built in now. It is required.

      They can be tracked not only
      on the cell grid, but they can also
      be trinangulated via orbiting sat-coms.

      If that did happen:

      I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t
      asked to turn them off for their own
      protection! So they didn’t become

      Walking around with a cell phone turned
      on… well, ya might as well be carrying
      a “Lo-Jack” with you.


      Hiya Vicki-

      Yes Miss-U is hysterical,
      I always enjoy her sense of humor.
      She should do stand up comedy! LOL

      The last pic is of Gerold Dompig’s son, Michael.


    49. Roy on January 24th, 2007 1:54 pm

      BTW….Forgot to mention that this is ALL JMO… It seems that those who are blackmailing on the political level had no part in the crimes committed against Natalee. Never the less, Using this child as a cash cow is wrong…What happened in Aruba is not this child’s fault, Please help her find her way home….Thx

    50. Richard on January 24th, 2007 2:23 pm

      Mayan Moons, I found a place where it might be stored. However, I wanted the go-ahead from the family before i began looking, not wanting to trample on anything they might be doing.

      Haven’t heard back yet. Might give it a try on my own.

    51. Miss-Underestimated on January 24th, 2007 2:28 pm


      To this day that picture of Dave in the landfill is embedded in my mind. It was almost as Aruba was saying go ahead and look, you won’t find anything, and because you’re here were gonna make it harder. How much more dastardly could Aruba be, on top of that, Aruba knew Natalee was not there.

      Can anyone imagine in their wildest dreams shoveling thru rotting ***stinking garbage to look for your daughter. Yes, the more you look and see, the more you can appreciated that Aruba is getting what it derserves.

    52. JusticeforNatalee on January 24th, 2007 3:01 pm

      Miss U.,

      Dave Holloway was put in the awful situation of looking for his beloved daughter ‘s body but hoping that he didn’t find her.

      I am writing a letter to the Dutch Minister of Justice.
      I am essentially calling Rudy the Minister of Injustice in my letter.

      I plan to cc Rudy, so that he knows that I am complaining about him.
      I also plan to cc the Dutch PM.

    53. Patti on January 24th, 2007 3:36 pm


      I’m not sure how the cell phones play into anything that was going on. All I remember is that there was some speculation that if Natalee had tried to call someone on the island that it would have been difficult because the cell phones were all turn off.

      Since then, it has come to my attention that it is possible to rent cell phones as part of your vacation package and that the students that did this were required to turn them in at the Hotel before leaving. So, at this point, I am not sure whether it was that someone told them to turn their cell phones off or to turn them in. If it had been the latter, I am not sure whether the phones were monitored by anyone after Natalee’s disappearance for any in-coming calls that could have been her trying to make contact with a friend. I just don’t know.

      As far as blackmail… the only way that I could see anyone using those pictures as blackmail would be if they were asking for some kind of hush-money from the ones that were carrying out the cover up. It’s all speculative, but maybe that was what was being done… Perhaps this statement by Oduber was like you said, an indication that there would be no pay off and resulted in the pictures being released on the internet. All of these things are speculative, and, like I said there is no proof of any blackmail that I am aware of.

      As far as the pictures being used as blackmail against the family or friends of Natalee, what good would pictures of decapitated bodies do in a case of blackmail against them. Wouldn’t it have been more useful to blackmail them with pictures of Natalee in good health, being held against her will, for ransom. How could the death of Natalee be used against anyone other than the person that is responsible for her death or the people responsible for the eventual cover-up?

      The thing that I have always wondered about is the fact that after Joran led them to the Rocks, why, if Natalee was there, would they not recover her remains? They had stated that they had a confession and that on Saturday they were going to recover the body of Natalee. Could her body have been removed sometime between the time that Joran made his confession and their trip to the rocks? Or do we know, for sure that the painting of the rocks was done on that Saturday? Maybe the pictures that we see are pictures that were taken of the activity that took place before the police went with Joran to the rocks.

      If the picture of Joran, in the back of the gray sedan was taken on their visit to the rocks, he looks too happy for a man that has just confessed to a murder and is there on a recovery mission. He doesn’t look scared. He looks like he is on a friendly Sunday drive. Or, perhaps, he is just so over-joyed with knowing that someone removed the body, thus making his confession a big joke. We all know his sense of humor. Like a true psychopath, he would take pleasure in knowing that he had just stumped the police and their investigation. He’d laugh, remember.

      Remember, too, how upset he was when the Kalpoes didn’t change their story about driving up to the lighthouse before dropping Natalee and Joran off at the hotel. I think that he was being coached and protected by someone that had access to everything that he was telling the police and any mistakes that he made in the way of letting the truth come out. His confession was quickly taken care of.

      Without the testimony of the person that took those pictures, we don’t really know anything… including pertanent information like exactly when those pictures were taken. If the police that were supposedly going to recover Natalee’s remains on Saturday were aware that the body would no longer be there, why would they execute the recovery mission in the first place? But, even more questionable is the fact that they didn’t go on their recovery mission as soon as the confession was made. That is not good police work, if you ask me.

      The thing that Natalee’s family have in their favor is that there was a confession made. The fact that the remains were no longer there when they went to search does not erase the fact that Joran admitted to killing Natalee. AND if anything, the fact that her body wasn’t there is clear proof that there was somebody, probably Paulus, protecting Joran… even from himself.

      As far as the pictures are concerned… all I’ve seen of them is what I see here. I am not aware of the order in which they were taken… but either way, they are a clear indication of a cover up.

      Oduber hated the thing from the beginning. He didn’t like having Federal Agents everywhere and the press taking all those pictures. I think he had his own reasons for wanting the case of Natalee Holloway to be over… and, to me, that is unconscienable. Even, today, we have his ministers trying to keep his people from becoming interested in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It has become an excuse for everything that goes wrong on the island of Aruba. As an Amercian, I am concerned not only because of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, but also because of the blaming game that they have going on there, right now. I would imagine that Americans are being treated with indifference, right now, as if they are untrustworthy. Are they to blame? Not really, they only know as much as they are being told…. and Oduber with his ministers are the ones doing the talking.

      One more point: Oduber wanted this whole thing to be over. It wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t responsible, in some way, of hiding the murder from the public to protect Aruba from the onslaught of a trial and all the publicity that comes with it.

      Boycott Aruba

    54. vicki on January 24th, 2007 3:37 pm

      hi ya Carpe, thank you…miss u and justice…I will never forget either… I cry when I think of this MAN even thinkinhg thats where his baby is. MY GOD, these ppl are not fit to breath the same air as we do…
      Are these kids so lonely that they would trash what little brains they have left on sniffing??? crazy

    55. Crioyo on January 24th, 2007 4:02 pm

      hmmm i think this is referring heavily to the fact that they caught those kids drinking out of a jerrycan at the children’s calypso and roadmarch contest. Fairly new phenomenon and quite stupid. Joran has pretty high standards and he’s definitely not that dumb. If anybody would order 151 it’d have to be him. Still the normal drinks are beer, tequila, long island ice tea, vodka orange etc and ”feminine” mixed drinks. If he had plans for her, and was buying, he’d want to get her high and get her high fast but giving a girl a drink she doesn’t want isn’t in the players handbook either. no answers….

    56. Patti on January 24th, 2007 4:38 pm

      Hey Crioyo! How ya been?

    57. Crioyo on January 24th, 2007 5:04 pm

      hey patti, i’m pretty good…back in holland so back to the observer role.
      felt like commenting since i’m also one of those people who’s in carlos n charlies almost 3 times a week.

    58. Patti on January 24th, 2007 5:10 pm

      Shame on you. Drinking never solves anything and if you’re looking for love… ’tis better to look elsewhere.

      So what’s up in Holland? Business or Pleasure?

    59. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 5:22 pm

      Well, well, well, if it ain’t another Aruban cop with his damn hand out! Hmmmphhhhhhh

      You are a MEAN ONE, Mr. Seute.


    60. Crioyo on January 24th, 2007 5:29 pm

      yeah that may be true but my friends like to hit on the americans and they always find a reason to celebrate and go clubbing.
      Hey after all, it’s vacation and euro’s are worth twice as much. Besides I’m more like the designated driver so I never get too wasted.
      Holland is great, took a while to get used to the difference in climate again but it’s ok now. Business & pleasure, studies & life. True, love is actually best found on instant messaging networks.

    61. Patti on January 24th, 2007 5:51 pm


      And you wonder why you Arubans are met with
      such skepticism…

      Well, I hope that all goes well with you.

      Be carefull… predators everywhere!

      (just kidding)

      Let us know if you hear any news about the
      investigation. It, certainly, would be nice
      if the good guys win this one and we can all
      go back to what we all love best.

      Have Fun!

    62. Crioyo on January 24th, 2007 5:51 pm

      paul seute is a dirty cop……he has enemies too.

    63. Patti on January 24th, 2007 6:10 pm


      What? Dirty Cop? Please Clarify.

    64. Crioyo on January 24th, 2007 6:28 pm

      ok once again that’s an opinion. another pillar of the favors-economy i think. But he’s a crazy guy, quite the swinger, sleazy ladies man, always clubbing. Has many friends.
      And i know for a fact he once came home and found his dining room table set ablaze as a warning for something.
      and that’s all i can say about that subject….I bet he’s fun to hang out with. and no i don’t think there’s any connection to NH. maybe dirty was too strong a word.

    65. mayan_moons on January 24th, 2007 6:58 pm

      Hey Richard!

      You found something……cool, i understand you must check into that before sharing what you found with us. I’ll be patient & hope you can show us soon.

    66. Patti on January 24th, 2007 7:07 pm

      Thanks Crioyo!

      I have a question: Are there many Hell’s Angels on the island of Aruba? I know it may sound like a funny question, but I’m just curious for reasons that have little to do with Natalee Holloway.

    67. Richard on January 24th, 2007 7:42 pm

      Crioyo, maybe Natalee at that point was so far out of it (and maybe helped by a little drug in her drink to get there) that she didn’t know what she was drinking?

      Or, perhaps, she didn’t know about the intensity of this drink?

      And maybe she was drunker than she thought she was … that has happened to people.

      Would appreciate hearing any tales you have to tell about what’s going on in Aruba vis-a-vis our pet concern. Do you see any of the principals around? Does PvdS ever emerge?

      Does anyone even talk about things?

      Mayan Moons, if I do find something I’ll let you know. I too think what was on Joran’s blog may be significant … certainly it bothered his father enough to take it down, presumably without asking the dear little sporter….

    68. Maria on January 24th, 2007 7:48 pm

      A spade is a spade and they are all guilty. And whom ever helped. I agree with MN Dad, robots, Anna and all of the other posters(I apologize for not getting the names). The only question to me is:

      How many times did they have to rebury her and where is the current location. I tend to believe she wan’t moved off of the VDS property, but that is JMO and I could be incorrect.

    69. yoyo muffintop on January 24th, 2007 8:14 pm

      Capt’n – answer to #33 is maybe, not out of the realm for a party guy. Doubt he was a “huffer” in the sense, but possibly did it on occasion. But what do I know, since apparently it’s not possible that Natalee would do a shot of 151, let alone know what it is.

    70. Crioyo on January 24th, 2007 9:19 pm

      There’s a harley group or two. According to me they’re not Hell’s Angels at all, they go by another name. That’s what you get in the Netherlands but in Aruba it’s mostly regular people who go to the same café’s (Black Hog, Camacuri Roadhouse Cafe) and own Harley’s and put on their leather jackets on weekends. And they never get into trouble for any reason. Hell’s Angels are active in The Netherlands and also under criminal investigation and members are currently being prosecuted. I’m not the expert on the Aruba Harley community though but I’m pretty sure it’s all normal and legit and all kinds of people from highschool teachers to government employees do it.

      Richard that might be true.
      I suppose Natalee kind of liked Joran, and I suppose she had made up her mind about what she was going to do that night long before closing time. So I think she might’ve wanted to drink a little extra for that purpose and perhaps went way over her usual limit with some help from Joran? Perhaps the female equivalent of when guys ”drink till she’s cute”. After all it was her last night and I’m sure all of the mountain brook students wanted to end it with a bang.

      Joran is often spotted at college. Many Arubans go to that same college in Arnhem and he lives close to it.

      Pvds I had never heard of before the disappearance and afterwards he remains just as vague a character to me.

      No nobody talks about it anymore. Only when it’s in the media there’s a little (after)talk here and there but that’s it.

    71. Carpe Noctem on January 24th, 2007 9:38 pm

      Hey Crioyo,

      Have you heard of the
      DTS Gang in Aruba?

      -Downtown Soldiers-

      Just curious? Supposedly

      most of them drive motorcycles. Not H.D.s,

      but “crotch rockets” like Suzuki, Kawasaki,

      & Honda. Is this true or bunk?… Yes / No ?

    72. Patti on January 24th, 2007 10:15 pm


      That’s why I was asking. The Hell’s Angels are big in Holland and are heavily involved in the drug and sex-slave industry. I was just curious about whether they may be involved in Aruba also. I heard about the Black Hog club. It sounds like it might be a fun place to go.

      Again, I hope you have a pleasant time in Holland. If you hear anything, please let us know. Thanks, again, for your help.


    73. Richard on January 24th, 2007 10:26 pm

      Thanks for replying, Crioyo. Stay safe, and let us know if you hear anything. Maybe you can help revive public attention … Arubans, above all, should want to know what’s going on with the case.

      I was just thinking … wasn’t it a few months ago that that writer Larry Garrison let on about how he was talking with some “secret source” and that we could expect some big things to be happening?

      Yeah, sure ….

    74. Mortella on January 24th, 2007 11:06 pm

      I don’t think there is enough booze in the world to make Joran look good.

      Natalee was interested in a boy from MB, not Joran. I don’t think her behavior was any different on that night than any other. These are not under-privileged kids who only have one shot at a vacation all summer long. They live a couple of hours from one of the most beautiful beaches in the world, too.

      The photo Beth showed on TV taken only a couple of hours before Natalee disappeared showed a clear-eyed, happy, smiling and seemingly fully in control Natalee, not some desperate, wild teenager seeking thrills in any way she could find them.

      Why change the facts to accommodate Aruba’s version of events? Natalee may not have been an angel but she sure wasn’t the “breazah slut” invented by the Dutch and Arubans to attempt to justify what they did to her either. That’s just pure fabrication on their part in an attempt to claim ALL teens behave in a certain manner. Well, maybe they do in a place so small as Aruba but not here.

      The varieties of behavior are as many as the teens involved. They are not all stamped from a cookie cutter no matter what these dorks tell you. And you don’t keep up that kind of GPA and get scholarships drugging and drinking all the time, either, just can’t be done. Instead you end up like Joran and can’t even keep your lies straight from one telling until the next.

      Because these little slimes don’t know any kids who are not drug addicts and alcoholics by the time they are fifteen does not mean such kids don’t exist and in abundant numbers where they have alternatives to occupy their minds and hold their interests. As I said, that would not be the norm in places like Aruba and The Netherlands but here in Alabama I see them all the time. There is life outside of bars, casinos and dives! Just not for some like J2K and some of the trolls who insist on posting here.

    75. Mortella on January 24th, 2007 11:14 pm

      Let’s see–they are dropping on the streets from huffing but such a thing being done to Natalee is just impossible?

      Is that how the fight started, Joran? How did it end??

      I put nothing beyond these predators. Look how they lie about Natalee even now to try to justify what they did to her. And they have their enablers who support that line of thought as well.

      Anyone who ever goes back to Aruba after all they have said about Natalee and her family is asking for the same to be done to them. They are in quite a dilemma, hating Americans yet wanting our money.

      Tsk, tsk, too bad Aruba. You will get neither and it is going to be hard to undo this damage even after delivering a resolution to this horrific mess you have fostered with your support of this crime.

      Lie about Natalee all you want, I don’t believe you for one minute. And then there is the sad fact that it doesn’t matter what she did or what she MIGHT have been thinking. Nothing gave anybody on that island the right to so much as touch her. Nothing.

      Anita said Natalee should never have gone in the car with those boys. Why, Anita? Why should she not have done that? What is wrong with getting in the car with your fine son? What do you know that causes you to say this?

      What do the Aruban trolls know that causes them to have to try to shift the blame to the victim? Do they know what happens to tourist girls who make the mistake of sharing a ride back to their hotel with someone who claims to be another guest staying there? Sure sounds that way for otherwise, there would be no need to keep on and on trashing the victim in this depraved manner. Just more of the sickness wafting off that stench-hole.

    76. yoyo muffintop on January 25th, 2007 12:46 am

      BTW – has anyone read Madison Whatley’s FBI-302? I guess 151 is not that strange a choice by Joran as stated above.
      “Holloway was drinking “red fires” which had “151″ in them”

    77. Tazman on January 25th, 2007 12:47 am

      Well, that picture is great advertisement for the travel industry of Aruba! Just one more thing to avoid Aruba for.

    78. nychic on January 25th, 2007 1:05 am

      Listen To Crioyo
      He Obviously Knows What He Is Talking About…

      If Girls Are Out Drinking – They Will Choose Things
      Like: Pina Coladas – Strawberry Daiquiris

      If They Might Take A Shot: It Will Be A Jello Shot or
      A Lemon Drop – Possibly A Kamikaze

      If Natalee Was Thinking Of Getting Blasted – She Would
      Certainly Have Not Had Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner At
      The Hotel – Also, Wasn’t That Bottled Water She Was
      Drinking In The Casino ???

      Was She Drinking A Few Long Island Tea’s In A Last Ditch
      Effort To Get Hammered – ANSWER: HELL NO

      Maybe She Did Have A “Red Fire” (earlier in the day) most Drinks at All-Inclusives are Watered Down and Do Not have much Alcohol Anyway

      My Point: No Girl – No Matter How Experienced A Drinker She Is — Goes From Taking Pictures With Friends, To Dancing
      To Slumped Over In A Car Barely Coherent —
      ***From One Shot of Rum 151 ! NO WAY NO HOW***

      That Is Proof That Something Like GHB Was Slipped Into Her Drink That Joran Bought Her !

    79. nychic on January 25th, 2007 1:19 am

      Here Is A Good Tip For All Girls Traveling
      To A Foreign Destination And Are Planning
      On Drinking:

      Acquire A Taste For Beer
      Carry Your Own Bottle Opener

    80. yoyo muffintop on January 25th, 2007 1:40 am

      nychic –
      Lee Broughton’s FBI 302: “During the morning hours on Sunday, May 29, 2005 Holloway started drinking mixed drinks called ” Red Fires”. The drinks contain Bicardi 151 and Diet Coke. Holloway became intoxicated and her friends told her to slow down. Holloway and Broughton continued to drink throughout the day. They went to dinner between 6:00 and 7:00 PM. After dinner Holloway and Broughton went to the Hotel Casino to watch Ruth McVay gamble.

    81. Crioyo on January 25th, 2007 2:00 am

      Hey Carpe,

      The popular Downtown Soldiers I know is a rap/reggeaton group based in The Netherlands. More like Aruban students living in the Netherlands and rapping etc on the side.

      The hayabusa’s kawasaki’s etc I think are mostly a byproduct of that urban culture and there are groups on the island and racing teams etc. Everybody’s part of a racing team nowadays, except they don’t race. They park their cars and cycles at Eagle Beach on sundays and ride together here and there, and sometimes race when there’s a street legal tournament, but mostly it’s cosmetic.

      Remember Jossy also said he had private contact with Karin Janssen and that the case would go to court again but nothing happened. All these secret sources have lead to nowhere so far.

      Mortella there’s nothing wrong ofcourse with wanting to have fun while on vacation. And yes there is everything wrong with taking advantage of somebody.

      good point nychic. i’m still thinking though about how he could get a chance to slip it into the drink in such a crowded bar. on a good night you can barely get to the bar, and barely move when you are standing there and GHB is a powdery substance he has to throw in the drink and mix it?
      and the 3 bartenders behind the bar. Nobody noticed?
      But still if Joran has done this 20 times before he must know what he’s doing. Didn’t other girls come forward? Where are they now? Did they think they were drugged as well?

    82. nychic on January 25th, 2007 2:33 am

      yoyo -

      Once Again – Your String Is Twisted

      If Natalee Drank “Red Fires” As You Say – They
      Were Made At The Hotel Which Is An All Inclusive -
      Most Young Girls Drink The Same Drink For Up To
      An Hour Sometimes – If You Are Out By The Pool -
      It Will Be Watered Down In About 10 Minutes -

      I Have Never Heard of A Red Fire – It Must Be
      A Special Drink of The Holiday Inn In Aruba ?
      I Kind Of Doubt They Use Anything Better Than
      Cheap Rot Gut Rum For Their Drinks When There Are
      Hundreds of Students There On A Cheap Group Rate ?

      Her Friends Also Said They Ate Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner
      And She Had Bottled Water Between Drinks -Not The Usual Activity of Anyone Trying Their Best To Get Wasted –
      (Just In Case You Have Forgotten Your Youth)


      Crioyo – GHB is Now Available In Liquid Form – It Is Sold
      For About $10 For A Small Plastic Container About The Size of A Hotel Shampoo Bottle – It Is Apparently The Date Rape Drug of Choice Due To How Easily It Is Slipped Into Drinks

    83. nychic on January 25th, 2007 2:46 am

      Crioyo -

      Did You Hear Anything About The Kalpoe’s Being
      Served With Legal Documents In Aruba ?

      Where Did They Find Them ?
      Hiding Under The Desk At The Internet Cafe ?

    84. nychic on January 25th, 2007 3:02 am

      Crioyo -

      One More Thing – I Have Been In That Carlos n Charlies
      Also – The Main Bar To The Left When You Walk In Is
      Always Pretty Crowded – With Usually 3 or 4 Bartenders

      Joran Stated In One Of His Interviews That He Led Natalee
      To The “Other” Bar For His Favorite Shot – Meaning The Bar
      On The Opposite Side of C n C’s – On Your Right When You
      Walk In – Which Usually Has 1 Bartender – Is Darker And
      Is Away From The Manager’s Office -

      Also – They Were Closing Early That Night – So It Was Not That Busy

    85. Richard on January 25th, 2007 5:35 am

      Mortella, good comments, both. The issue isn’t whether Natalee may have drunk too much, but what happened to her.

      That is THE issue and the ONLY issue. Let Aruba avoid it or distort it, that REMAINS the only issue.

      Note in the Lee Broughton remarks quoted by #80 that Broughton herself admits to having had one too many, or perhaps more than one. That suggests that her memory might be in error, or that she might have formed an opinion that Natalee drank too much which was not the actual case.

      “Too much” is always a relative term anyway. But as was noted, the photographs we have seen show no sign of Natalee being out of control.

      Crioyo, there is a lot of suspicion that the bartenders may have drugged the drink. Dave Holloway has said that it is known that on certain Aruba bars there are bottles of drugged liquor at the ready … and that a $20 “tip” to the bartender will result in the serving of a drugged drink to whomever you want to get it.

      Could it be that Joran had a “signal” ready to let one of the bartenders know that this girl was to be another victim?
      We’ve heard nothing about the background of the people who work in C&Cs, as far as I know. Keep your ears open!

    86. Richard on January 25th, 2007 5:43 am

      One other thing that comes to mind: as with Amy Bradley, Natalee has been missing long enough so that she could have borne and given birth to a baby, obviously under duress.

      My point is: If she was indeed taken off the island and if she is still alive, that baby would be a very potent factor in her refusal to flee, even if she had the opportunity.

      “You try to run away, and if we catch you this baby dies. And we’ll go after your family and get them as well.”

      Yet another possible psychological deterrent. I don’t know, of course, if this is the case … but would, or could, some drug lord make such a threat plausible?

      You bet.

      About a year after Amy Bradley vanished, an American sailor left his ship in Curacao and went to a dingy waterside brothel. That is where he reported the sighting of a Caucasian young woman who, when she had the chance, told him that her name was Amy Bradley (he’d never heard of her before) and begged for his help. He wrote it off as a joke.

      Three years later, by chance he saw her photo on the cover of “People’s” magazine and changed his mind. He then contacted the family. He also passed an FBI polygraph.

      The family had the place checked out, but by then it had burned down … BEEN burned down.

      But the point here is: just about the time of that sighting, or soon after, the Bradleys were on the front porch of their home. Neighbors alerted them that they were being photographed surreptitiously from two nearby cars.

      When they went to investigate, the cars sped off.

      They suspect that the photos might have been taken, brought to Curacao and used to intimidate Amy. “We know where your family live, and where they are. Do anything, and they die as well as you do.”

      According to what I’ve read, such threats have been used before. The forced pregnancy might have taken place too; and though it sounds way out in outer space, Latin America is known as a place where babies are kidnapped for the adoption racket as well. So who knows.

    87. SUPER DAVE on January 25th, 2007 8:11 am


    88. yoyo muffintop on January 25th, 2007 9:26 am

      nychic – you can try and spin it any way you want. Spin away. Are you now questioning Lee Broughton and the FBI? I didn’t say it, the girl she was with all day did. And of course it doesn’t matter what she drank or how much. But Lee’s 302 statement is what it is. If you won’t believe an FBI 302, what will you believe?

    89. Carpe Noctem on January 25th, 2007 10:29 am

      Hi Crioyo,

      Thanks so much
      for the reply.

    90. nychic on January 25th, 2007 12:20 pm

      yoyo -

      I Believe You Should Book A Trip To The Holiday Inn
      On A Cheap All Inclusive Package – And Attempt To Order
      Your “Makers Mark” – Good Luck –

      No Matter What Lee Said – I Seriously Doubt They Were
      Making Drinks With Bacardi 151 – IMO

    91. nychic on January 25th, 2007 12:31 pm


      Are You Also Going To Believe Everything In Joran’s Statements To The Polis ?

    92. Sharon Chicago on January 25th, 2007 12:34 pm

      Cryio… Joran and 2 K’s showed up half hour or so before closing time at C&C’s…It was Sunday night …easy to slip something in anyone’s drink…

    93. Sharon Chicago on January 25th, 2007 12:37 pm

      What is Karen Jannsen doing now in Holland? Will she be writing a book soon or is she in hiding?

    94. JusticeforNatalee on January 25th, 2007 12:50 pm

      “I don’t think there is enough booze in the world to make Joran look good.”

      LOL LOL Mortella! Agree Agree!

    95. Carpe Noctem on January 25th, 2007 2:58 pm

      You’d need mondo beer googles
      and a dang circus mirror to make
      that 7 foot freak look good!

      Hi, mum … looky I brought home friggin Lurch,
      ain’t he the coolest?


      You rangggggg???


      #92 Sharon – It could have very well been
      some knock out drops? a little dab will
      do ya… drug kick in effect of roughly
      15-30 minutes…

      a quick swing of your arm over
      the cup and a squirt… boom. It can
      be done in the blink of an eye.

      Especially, when you take in to
      consideration that they were in a bar/club
      type place. There are always plenty of
      distractions in place like that. In some
      you can’t even hear yourself think from
      the music.

      I wonder if he did that
      20 times as well? -J4N

    96. ernest on January 25th, 2007 3:04 pm


      Gulf Shores is not even in the top 200 as far as beautiful beaches are concerned…Waikiki,Bora Bora,St Thomas,Gulf Shores?One does not belong…Plus there sre more dopers and meth heads in Birmingham than all of the Dutch Kingdom combined.

    97. Patti on January 25th, 2007 4:01 pm


      Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

      As far as more dopers being in Birmingham? Why don’t you ask yourself how, on earth, The Netherlands were able to legalize the use of marijuana if there are so few using it?

      Get a grip… if you have nothing to offer us, why bother?

    98. Crioyo on January 25th, 2007 4:56 pm

      Is Deepak still working at the internet cafe??????
      I thought he quit or so. I missed out, darn.

      If you’re talking about the Dr. Phil suit then according to what I read, because they filed a lawsuit in california, the others in america etc automatically had the right to countersue. Something like that it said in Diario.

      I know what you mean. When it’s really full and cruiseships are in it’s jam packed and full on both sides. But when there are no ships in port it’s very empty and boring. And locals only go out on wednesday friday and saturday. Carlos n Charlies started with the Ladies First event to attract more locals.

      So all these other days it’s pretty empty and especially when it’s NOT summer & winter when all the Aruban students in Holland and Florida fly in.

      We usually hang on the left side near the bar. One bartenderguy makes the drink while one guy is the cashier and there’s atleast one other at the far end of that same bar. Same thing happens on the other side of the club.

      I can’t remember if this system was introduced AFTER NH’s disappearance.

    99. Maggie on January 25th, 2007 5:49 pm

      You would think if the cops are aware of having your drinks drugged, they would have some undercover people in the place or something being done just for that purpose in CnC’s.. Dennis Jacobs told Dave to watch his drink, they drug them. So he was aware of that, why was nothing being done to try to fight that problem before Dave came? Why would anyone believe they would NOT drug Natalee, but they would Dave Holloway?!

      Joran or his father don’t need to sniff, they are already loonie enough.. I too believe they are an accident waiting to happen.

    100. Patti on January 25th, 2007 6:47 pm

      Hey Crioyo!

      Do you like Oduber?

      Is he known as an honest person?

      What do you think about him giving a lobbyist
      $250,000 to put in a good word for him in our

      A quarter of a million smack-a-roos!!!

      Any idea what he might be hiding?

    101. Crioyo on January 25th, 2007 7:44 pm

      Well I don’t really like him and I don’t think he’s always honest.
      All those old fashioned politicians are just as bad.
      And I was not surprised when I saw the headline, it’s so typical. I respect him though for being so influential for so long. How fortunate for those in power that people do not think.

      I must admit though, he’s a very good public speaker. When he says something he sounds very very sincere and he always backs up his chatter with ”documents”. He always seems to have documents that prove he’s right in some kind of way. But yeah, nobody’s going to question figures mentioned on the radio anyway.

      Funny his son was also in trouble for supposedly sexually harrasing the daughter of was it an American diplomat?
      Never did hear how that case settled.

      All these politicians mean well. No doubt about it.
      They just have no human relations skills, no conscience and far too little common sense. Heck if I’m a politician and I want to bribe somebody I’d atleast run a google check on who I’m giving my money to. Furthermore Oduber can barely speak English fluently.

      I will always enjoy hearing him speak, for when he speaks he sounds very very good and better than any other politician but it’s a pitty he lacks in all other areas.

      I don’t think he’s hiding anything. I think he was conned.
      He’s not smart enough to look up a senator.

    102. Patti on January 25th, 2007 8:23 pm


      Do you ever remember hearing anything about a girl who was missing in Aruba about a year before Natalee went missing? Do you remember hearing anything about bones or a skeleton being found on the island?

      What about this story about a boy being drowned by Joran when he was 12 years old, or the person pushed off a bridge, any recollection of hearing about either of those stories?

      It sounds like you go out alot. Do you know Joran or any of his friends?

      I feel bad about asking you all these questions, but generally Arubans are very tight-lipped about anything having to do with the case of Natalee Holloway.

      I appreciate your candidness. Thanks.

    103. yoyo muffintop on January 25th, 2007 8:24 pm

      Richard – you are discrediting Natalee’s roommate’s own statement? Do we now throw out all statements from anyone that might have been drinking any time that day? You say it is not the case that Natalee drank too much – Her roommate, who was with her all day, says different. Why are you to be believed over her? You have asked us to open our minds, so to speak, of the possibility of Natalee being kidnapped for the sex slave industry. Why have you closed your mind to this? Strange. But using your line of thinking, I guess this nows opens up the possibility that Natalee did make it back to the HI, since those that never saw her had a few cocktails in them. Key card was used sometime around 3am,iir, so…

    104. Richard on January 25th, 2007 11:38 pm

      What she says is not what other MB kids have said. We have photographs of Natalee earlier that day in which she clearly is not under the influence of alcohol.

      So my response is … this girl might be telling the truth as she best sees it, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is accurate.

      And the FBI’s role in this is limited to taking down the statement. That doesn’t imply confirmation of what is said.

    105. Richard on January 25th, 2007 11:40 pm

      Ernest (96) … would you care to provide the statistics that show there are more drug users in Birmingham than in the Netherlands? And the source?

      Methinks you can’t.


      SM:   That person was a troll that submitted tons of posts most of which I deleted.   They are now banned (klaasend)

    106. nychic on January 26th, 2007 12:17 am

      yoyo -

      There Is Video Footage That Natalee Was Pacing Herself

      So It Does Not Matter Whether She Was Drinking Alabama Slammers Topped With Absynthe – Or Red Fires or Beer

      The Fact Remains – She Was Not Drinking At CnC’s Except
      For 1 Shot – And 1 Shot WILL NOT Put You In A State of
      UNCONCIOUSNESS – If You Are Pacing Yourself –

      Unless Something Was Added To It !

      Come On ! You Know That As Well As Anyone Does !

    107. nychic on January 26th, 2007 12:23 am


      If You Bring Up That Key Card Again I Will Request
      Klaas To Cyber Strangle You – yoyo
      (I Would Do Much Worse)

      That Has Been Proven It Was NOT Natalee’s Key
      Why Bring It Up ?

    108. yoyo muffintop on January 26th, 2007 8:55 am

      nychic – I threw the key thing in there to illustrate a point. I do not believe it. I guess I just don’t understand why many are insistent on Natalee being sober that night when faced with the statement of her roommate that hung with her all day. And you cannot tell intoxication from a picture. Is it because some have backed themselves in a corner with the roofie thing?

    109. Carpe Noctem on January 26th, 2007 9:32 am

      He brings it up, because it is all he has!

      He has nothing to defend these rapist murderers with…


      except rumors, innuendo & nuance.

      Hey Joe, I hope defending Joran the raping
      pig Aruban murderer shreds your practice
      to pieces.

      You have kids! If you can
      defend him after all he has done…

      You have no conscience whatsoever!

      When I think of you Yo, I am always just
      one heave away from the porcelain bus.

    110. Libby on January 26th, 2007 10:07 am

      I had to share this.

      I am in Springfield Illinois on business. Driving in front of me was a SUV. In the back window was a handmade sign / sticker that said “Boycott Aruba…Americans want justice for Natalee Holloway”. I love it. It is everywhere.

    111. Molly on January 26th, 2007 11:11 am

      #8 SM: Thank you for identifying the OTHER Molly. You know that I would never say anything like that post.

      Justice for Natalee

      molly (in Houston)

    112. dave on January 26th, 2007 11:18 am

      Ignore yo yo the brainless TROLL

    113. Molly on January 26th, 2007 11:20 am

      #36 Miss U.: Mais no! Absolutely not. The not-nice comments are not from this Molly. I have been in Dallas.

      Boycott Aruba.

      molly (in Houston)

    114. Molly on January 26th, 2007 11:44 am

      Waterboy Jerry: They must be some v-e-r-y sick people who can move a body multiple times over the course of a few days. If they can do that, then IMO those people are capable of anything. Since child porn/any porn was popular with the Sloots, it is so possible that pop and pimp participated in the same assault. I base my opinion on the pic of popsloot charming Natalee in the casino. That is him, isn’t it, Miss U? Who else has that weird hairline and headshape? I just nauseated myself, yuck.

      molly (in Houston)

    115. Sharon Chicago on January 26th, 2007 1:05 pm

      Natalee’s drinking: If her friend said she was drinking all day…I would think she was being very general in stating this…..

      Natalie probably had a drink around the pool and sipped it and walked around all day with a glass in her hand. People can assume anything in regard to seeing a glass in her hand that she is consuming mass quantities.

      I am sure she had water from time to time during the day and was not bombed out of her mind.

      She then went out to C&C’s and drank more because she really had not been “boozing” it up all day…

    116. Carpe Noctem on January 26th, 2007 2:11 pm

      Good point Sharon from Chicago.

      Also, it is important to note, that every time we see
      Natalee on that last day… she does not appear wasted.

      In the casino, in the C & C pictures, the pic with her
      cousin… she looks to be having a good time but not
      wasted, stumbling, yada yada yada…

      It is also important to note that not one slack-ass
      rumor generating Aruban has been able to prove the
      fact that she was doing ANYTHING illegal!

      Now, when we focus on Joran The Aruban Rapist,
      the story is a little different.

      Joran is drinking not only at 17 YRS OLD in clubs and casinos. Illegal in Aruba.

      …since he was 15 yrs old he’s been drinking. -source
      his own ALE Statements

      He is allowed in to multiple casinos all over the island,
      he gambles for money in them underage, and he is given
      VIP passes to some bars/clubs!!!! All of these things
      are highly illegal.

      I guess staying out to 4, 5, and 6 am on school nights
      is not illegal, but maybe it SHOULD BE? He did that at
      least twice that we have on record.


      Natalee did nothing illegal, and she was having fun
      on vacation.

      Joran does MANY things that are ilegal, and that is his home. -J4N

    117. dennisintn on January 26th, 2007 2:55 pm

      the last picture we’ve seen of natalee, taken at l0:30 pm the night she disappeared showed natalee to be in control and bright eyed, and having fun.

      only the guilty and those who wrongly defend them would ever have a reason to defame and blame the victim.

    118. JusticeforNatalee on January 26th, 2007 3:02 pm

      Yo Yo Joranhead does not
      want to intelligently discuss
      the case.

      Yo Yo just wants to disrupt.

      The card key? I rest my case.

    119. Richard on January 26th, 2007 10:11 pm

      I think we’re agreed that the person who claimed to have seen Natalee drinking all day is none too reliable.

      Here’s a very gruesome point I want to raise, but I do this for a reason … bodies in warm climates decompose more quickly than those in cold ones. Sorry, but this is what I’ve read in a book on such things. Bugs get to them fast.

      The reason I raise this nauseating issue is … the talk about moving the body hither, thither and yon doesn’t seem very plausible to me. Aside from the natural repugnance that most people would feel at the prospect of doing such a thing … it isn’t likely.

    120. Richard on January 26th, 2007 10:13 pm

      Klaasend (#105) … Thanks for sending Ernest to the netherworld where he/she/it belongs.


      SM:   My pleasure ;)   (klaasend)

    121. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 27th, 2007 8:19 am

      More about “Junior”

      It has been said that Junior made the whole thing up about seeing Natalee being buried in the landfill, and he did it for the money. The problem is, there was no reward posted on June 1, 05. He tried multiple times to contact the police department on June 1. He even wrote down license plates. . So what was his motive? Only Junior knows what he saw, but there is just too much that lines up to not to be real.

      Did he see Joran and Pauleus and the two Ks with Natalee’s body? Dave Holloway believed it. He looked for weeks, in the worst imaginable conditions.

      The police looked, so apparently they accepted the fact that something Junior said was true and real. Junior’s brother believed enough to continue to call the police.

      So is “Junior” believable? Hell yes.

      Why did they doubt Junior and come up with all the trash they dug up on him? Because they did not find Natalee. The reason was not because Junior was not telling the truth, but because Natalee’s body had been moved.

    122. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 27th, 2007 8:49 am

      More about Junior—again.

      Why does Art Wood not believe Junior? Honestly, I don’t know, and that worries me. For one thing there is a language barrier. Junior speaks only Spanish, and he didn’t pass the polygraph (but he was willing to take it). Evidently from all I can gather, Junior is an alcoholic and drug abuser, and that discredits anyone, but Junior did drive to the landfill. He was sober enough and with it enough to drive. When you drive, you have to keep your car on the road, stop at stop signs etc. He’s not like some of these drunken street people who can’t tell you what year it is, or who they are, or where they are.
      I’m really surprised Junior is still alive-or is he? You don’t have to kill a witness when you assassinate his character.

    123. Sharon Chicago on January 27th, 2007 9:55 am

      #121 If Junior wrote down the license plate numbers and gave it to the police or anyone that would listen, who does the car belong to? If he was willing to talk he would have given this info also to the Twitty and Holloway families or Art Wood.

      FBI/Art Wood does not believe his testimony nor does the polygraph test. I lean toward believing someone paid him off to persist on making this statement so that everyone would look in the wrong area, which they did. Aruba was very busy spinning this case with many different sightings to jerk us around!

    124. Waterboy (Jerry) on January 27th, 2007 11:26 am

      To Sharon Chicago,

      I can clearly see your point, and the license plate does’ t mean a thing, unless it is verified that those were the numbers that Junior wrote down on June 1. I’ve never heard anyone say that they matched Sloot cars.

      He may have thought he saw something, and not. He could as you say have been paid to say that he saw the Sloot’s doing it. This would create a wild goose chase situation.

      It could be, as wild as it seems, a set up. In other words, the Sloots made sure that Junior saw them doing something so he would report it. To me this seems more likely, because to me Junior seems to believe what he is saying.
      He may be prone to exaggeration i.e. “Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story”. This would account for his failure of the polygraph.

      I believe Junior. My only trouble is I also believe Art Wood too, and he is the most reliable of the two by a football field, so as I have said, I’m stuck in a quandary.

    125. Carnival in Aruba … Police Want Night Clubs Closed Early to Prevent Violence like after Tourchlight Parade | Scared Monkeys on January 18th, 2008 12:08 pm

      [...] In Aruba what do you get when you add Carnival, people, alcohol and night clubs staying open into the early hours of the morning? The answer according to the Aruban police is trouble. As the old saying goes … nothing good can come of things after 1 AM. “The current situation can lead to problems during carnival”, said De Witte referring to the free-for-alls in the center of town after the Torchlight Parade.  [...]

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