RSSAn Island’s Reputation
This post was originally posted at Aruba Girls Weblog
An Island’s Reputation
I’ve been spending a good portion of the weekend on a message board, trying to defend Aruba’s name and honor, and help answer questions anyone might have about Aruba, police system. Most of the posters were normal, reasonable people. There were several, however that were not.
Let me hasten to point out that the moderators of this site are excellent, and they allow a free discussion to flow, banning the most egrerious of trolls inmediately and generally try to get everyone to stay on topic.
There were moments, however, where I was fully expected to get banned when I saw red after reading the words ‘cover-up’ and ‘corruption’ for the umpteenth time. The arrogance of these types of posters is amazing. If an apparant crime against a high-profile Aruban took place in, let’s say, England, I don’t think I would start shouting these words so soon. I wouldn’t start attacking all police officials and prosecutors because the system is different there, or that they are moving at a different pace.
There I was, in any case, trying to answer questions about dumpsters and grey dust and press conferences and translating, all the while defending the cops and prosecutors.
Which leads me to ask myself, why was I so zealous? It’s not as if I love the cops here. They aren’t perfect, they can be incompetent at times, yes. The prosecution can be overzealous and sloppy. So why was I posting that ‘everyone could stick their cover-up and corruption theories up Clinton and Nixon’s asses’? [Cringe]
I think it’s because the cops are our husbands, wives, sons, brothers, nieces, friends. They are us. They are me.
And by God, I’m not corrupt, and the sooner this is over, the better it is for everyone involved. We’re tired of Nancy Grace implying our ineptness, while Nancy Grace knows jack shit about our legal system. Having Fox let Bill O’Reilly us a bunch of prostitutes and criminals while paying Mark Fuhrman to share his infinite wisdom with the masses is beyond the pale.
We like America. We like their people (mostly), we like their attitude, their movies, music, products. But right now, disillusionment is setting in heavily with these clowns that they’ve sent here and carry the title of reporters. We have Geraldo here, for crying out loud.
We’re just getting tired of being the scapegoat of a young girl making a foolish decision.
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73 Responses to “An Island’s Reputation”
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I respect very much all of the words that you said – you were kind and compassionate-
until the last sentence- that was an unnecessary conclusion to an otherwise beautiful write up. … I ahve been a fan and visitor of aruba for over 20 years- becasue i love the friendly people and the beautiful land- i save all year, i dont go anyplace else- i was married there this year…. i will admit of course that americans can be aggressive and abbrasive even- we are proud people just like you are…im sorry for idddddoits like Geraldo- ugh! BUT, where i can admit our downsides i would love even one aruban to admit that the policing didnt grow to fit the growth of that island, and that perhaps people were ignoring the growing drugs and crime through the years… Please I saw it once a year, please dont tell me that nobody thre noticed it… but for gods sake PLEASE DONT BLAME THIS ON AN INNOCENT GIRL that had too much to drink while feeling SAFE on an island where “things like this just dont happen” Thanks for listening…
Prima verhaal!
I really don’t get quickly involved in this kind of discussions, because I also hate to defend the Dutch way of policing and justice against these attacks. And I know that the Netherlands Antilles are not that popular overhere in the Netherlands, but that doesn’t justify accusations that our Justicedepartment, including father Van der S. is corrupt. But I also hope that this case is resolved soon.
Why did you have to end your post by blaming the victim?
Was it really so foolish for this girl to trust a well known and popular boy?
This is why some people are not comfortable with your investigation. I believe that in your hearts you DO blame Natalee for what happened to her and so, I am discount the motive behind what would have been a great post.
thanks cas- i agree
aruba girl thank you as well for all of your hard work keeping people informed, i know that you guys dont understand but there are many people like me that feel like aruba is our home away from home – i am horrified that this happened there- but it DID, as i said in an earlier post i would NEVER have drinks and walk home in the US- but i would. did in aruba, there has always been this sense of security there, a false sense of security i guess, that is somehting that perhaps shouldnt have been there- but that you will never get back….
I don’t think anyone is condemning Aruba itself, but the longer the investigation of Holloway goes on, the more it’s image will suffer. It is probably one of the safest vacation spots around UNLESS “something bad happens”, then you might as well forget it because the law and police are not experienced in handling such crimes, and there may not be closure to such cases. This is nothing to defend here, Aruba girl.
I don’t understand why those in control will not let US FBI take over this case and get to the bottom of it QUICK. Set aside pride, we are talking about a young daughter here whom the world is grieving. And yes, nfortunately, US FBI is very experienced in this sort of interrogation and crime anatomy.
I truly feel sorry for the innocent people of Aruba. The “powers that be” are digging a deeper and deeper hole for them and their economy by not solving this case, and by not using all possible investigative resouces. I personally am glad US media is putting pressure on Aruban law enforcement. That pressure may be what saves Aruba’s image, if it helps to crack this case. I’m also glad Natalee’s mom is speaking out about LE there and their incompetence. It doesn’t matter, just DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SOLVES THIS CRIME. What don’t they get about this?
It’s kind of like traveling to Mexico. It’s all good unless you get in trouble with the law there and thrown in jail. You might stay there for years over a traffic ticket. US people take their chances traveling to foreign-ruled countries. It would be wise to research how crimes and offenses are handled before going to that country. I believe more people will do this now and I hope this case comes to an end very soon for the sake of the good Aruban people. “It only takes one to ruin the whole barrel.” Unfortunately, this is how human nature responds to this set of circumstances.
To Marie from Maine,( about your comment, A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY)
I dont agree with you. I mean this is the first time ever something like this has happend. Something bad can happen once or twice. Just because it happend once doesnt mean its gonna happen again. its more like a wake up call. LIKE HEY IT CAN HAPPEN HERE TOO. For example, if you get your heart broken once. Are you going to say, I WILL NEVER LOVE AGAIN? i dont think so, i think you willl eventually fall in love again, but you will keep in mind that it can go wrong.( sorry about this example, i just want to make my point of view clear, but its sometimes hard to do it in English ),
To Pays Bas-
Aruba doesnt belong to the Netherlands Antilles since 1986. And there is alottt of diff. between Aruba en the Netherlands Antilles.
Everything you said I agreed with except for
“We’re just getting tired of being the scapegoat of a young girl making a foolish decision. ”
You are wrong. It was not her fault that 3 of your young men decided to take her life / rape her or whatever etc.
This is a stupid way of saying she asked for it. All human deserve the right to live in safty and peace.
People who take a life is the one at fault for not respecting RIGHT OF LIFE FOR EVERYONE.
@Kitty, I know. But for the people of The Netherlands that doesn’t make any difference, because they are still known as the ABC-islands over here. I am sorry for that, but that’s a fact. However, this has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about finding the truth regarding the dissapearance of this girl and why these suspects are refusing to tell the truth and why that is hurting Aruba.
@scooter. If the FBI takes the lead in this from Aruban and Dutch autorities the case will be hard to procecute in court because of possibility that the FBI is not objective enough in this matter. Furthermore is just plain illegal to bend to rules of juristiction.
That’s harsh. Blaming the young girl for this? How can you blame a victim for being murdered? Hopefully you will retract that statement as I have ever heard of a victim being blamed for their own (possible) murder.
First, let me say, thank you, ArubaGirl for all the information you have given regarding Natalee’s disappearance. Secondly, my family and I will be making our 7th trip to Aruba this August. We have been all over the Caribbean, but we keep coming back to this island, not only for its’ beaches/water/temps, but the people there are very friendly and welcoming. One Happy Island. This has to be in my mind one of the safest Caribbean islands we have been to. But is also shows that “bad things” can happen anywhere because “bad people” can be anywhere. We need to stop blaming Aruba, it’s people, the police, the officials, parents, chaperones, etc and place blame where it belongs – WITH THE CRIMINAL (if indeed a crime has been committed which seems to be a safe bet) I am sure Aruba police and officials are overwhelmed by this, because this is such a unusual crime there. Let us not forget both US and Dutch authorities are there. If things are dragging, why haven’t they moved things along. I am sure it is quite difficult with all these different officials and different laws/policies to deal with. Too many chefs…..
Aruba Girl: I echo what others have said regarding your last sentence. It’s cruel and completely illogical to blame a victim. Certainly Natalee made a bad decision but does that mean she deserved whatever happened to her? Of course not. Your frustration is clearly clouding your reasoning, compassion and good judgement.
I think it is an interesting juxtaposition on the front page of this post:
Aruba Girl says “There is no racism”
Abraham Jones (fresh out of jail) and his family said the only reason he went to jail is because of his race.
Aruba is a land in denial about their problems.
Marie from Maine has been on this site from the beginning.
She was an Aruba lover, even married there last year, but I think if you read all of her posts you will see that there is a growing disillusionment that the Aruba she thought she knew is not the Aruba that is coming to light. A lot of it has to do with Aruban denial that they have problems…..problems that they need to work on solving not continuing to blame others.
Also the thing that bothered me most is the anti-Americanism that keeps popping up on this and other sites by Arubans.
It makes me think their “LOVE” for Americans is really just that they can “BARELY TOLERATE” Americans and this incident has uncovered that disdain.
Living in a country (US) that many people in the world accuse of corruption and cover-ups on a constant basis, I know it can be frusterating.
Sorry,
Arubagirl….we know that the three boys did something bad. We know that the investigation was repeatedly bungled. We know that a girl is missing and most likely dead in Aruba.
This is a case of public corruption. It happens in America all of the time where wealthy or connected folks get their kids off of charges (see this link for proof: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S8742.html?cat=1 ). If you are connected, you get cut slack.
I agree that the people of Aruba want this to be solved and to go away. How about you start protesting in front of the jail house for Joran and his buddies to “come clean” for the sake of the island and the people? Call the media first…so there are lots of cameras.
When you continuously look at how this case has been handled, it is clear it has been a cover-up. Public corruption is alive and well in America and in Aruba.
Boycott Aruba!!!! md
Good post- UNTIL- attitude revealed- Blaming the victim! Sorry Arubagirl, if this has been your attitude all along- but you destroyed virtually all of your credibility with one simple- yet vital sentence. It’s the victim’s fault she is missing!! If you were taken against your will in the U.S. we would want to secure your safety, not cast blame. Virtually Nothing points to girls foolish decision. Do you think she wanted to get taken against her will? Was that the decision?? No country is perfect and it is never acceptable to blame a victim.
One person’s opinion.
I didn’t join the forum last night but read Aruba Girl’s article this morning. I would just like to say that the media people she is talking about Nancy Grace, Bill O’ Riley, Geraldo Rivera are not reporters. They are talk show hosts. Think Jerry Springer. They just use the news as their springboard. They are provocateurs. They make people angry or emotionally high by being an electronic tabloid.
That’s why so many people watch their shows. That’s why a lot of us don’t watch their shows especially FOX. You’re better off with mainstream media. CBS, ABC, NBC and even these are imperfect. If you want to do a penetrating interview go on Sixty Minutes, Oprah, or interview with Barbara Walters. Wolfe Blitizer on CNN is a reporter. Lou Dobbs has a mixture of news and talk. They’re better than the ones previously mentioned from their respective networks. A contact at the Big Newspapers, Washington Post, and New York Times, USA today would be good. Sounds like Aruba needs a Media Consultant. If I knew one I would recommend him/her to you.
Zeke
Arubagirl:
Thank you for all the information you have put online. You certainly have provided a good service.
However, if YOU got raped tonight, would YOU feel it were your fault??? How about raped, then murdered for complaining about the rape????
This is most likely what happened to Natalee. Yes, she was stupid for getting drunk and getting a ride with boys she didn’t know well back to hotel, but – she was still a human being – and didn’t deserve to get murdered (which is exactly what it looks like).
Have you not ever had too much to drink? Have you not ever had a boy try to take advantage of you in that state? IF so, are you not thankful that YOU didn’t get raped and then murdered for saying “NO”, “Not interested in a gangbang with you and your buddies”? If this were to happen to YOU, would you feel that YOU “had it coming”???
Someday you will most likely have a daughter, and she will also have to go through those “terrible teens”…..how would YOU feel if this happened to her? Would it be HER fault too?
Or is it just “Natalee’s fault” because she was American?
To just wondering (It makes me think their “LOVE” for Americans is really just that they can “BARELY TOLERATE” Americans and this incident has uncovered that disdain.)
Let me tell you something, im an Aruban student studying in Europe, most of the European people i know, dont like Americans, they are always agaings them etc. etc.
We always stand up for Americans here!! WHY ?because we know them, we know how friendly they are and that they are good people. We know that you can`t judge a book by its cover! SO FOR YOU to come and say that we can BARELY TOLERATE americans is not right. Do you base your opinions only by what you read? or see on tv and internet? i know that i dont! i base my opinions from what i`ve experienced! I have met alot of american tourists on the island and became friends with lots of em. And if you just look at te american influence on the island!! you can notice how much we truly do love the united states !
Tourism in Aruba is finished. If this case continues to drag out, it will only hurt American tourism for Aruba in the long run. I know I will never go there again. I don’t want to spend my money in a place that doesn’t protect victims of crime.. I am saying this because of the way the investigation has been handled.
I don’t neccessarily believe its because of the cops – it all has to do with this judges son and the way he is being protected.
A girl is MISSING. The longer they waited to arrest ALL of those that were involved, the longer it will take to find out where she is.
Bad decisions or not, we have all made them. Everyone, at some point has chosen to go somewhere alone knowing that it could be dangerous. It is not her fault – and I am so tired of hearing that it was.
Felicity, you and a lot of people are overreacting.
Speaking as an American who has spent a lot of time in the Caribbean — tourism is not “finished”, even if you would like to over-dramatize the effect on tourism, and Aruba is every bit as beautiful a place now as it always was.
Don’t confuse this case with the island. Or if you do, stay away then, and I will have more of the beach to myself next time.
Tourists with brains in their heads and common sense will continue to go to Aruba — no question about it.
In fact all of this publicity has shown more people how beautiful the island is. Who knows but that tourism might actually INCREASE — because all this added exposure and views of the locale entice new people to think of it as a desintation, while it hasn’t been in their minds previously.
So many people draw such confident conclusions with such partial and incomplete information. When Natalee is found or when a court case begins, I guarantee that the overwhelming majority of the speculations here will be proved off-base in one way or another. The truth in many ways is still hidden which is what drives so many armchair crime buffs nuts.
Hello Kitty:
Actually when I started visiting this site about 1.5 weeks ago, I thought nothing about the Aruban attitude toward Americans. I assumed it was the way they advertised.
They enjoyed their friendship with Americans.
It is my experience with the Arubans on this site that changed my mind.
Go back to last week and before. Post after post by Arubans blamed Natalee, blamed the American life style, blamed American media for the problem in your country.
Look at Marie from Maine who has been to Aruba 20 times and was married there.
She is disillusioned.
It was the EXPERIENCE of the Arubans’ words that were a surprise and shock to me and led me to make the comments….not just one Aruban, but many and many.
Hello Kitty:
Actually one poster maybe it was Mona posted in Papi several times I guess because she only wanted Arubans to know what she had to say about Americans.
Then one of the moderators, Red I believe, responded ( I guess he thought it was broken Papiamento because he apologized for his use of the language). The poster came back in English and said she was sorry. I don’t think she posted much after that.
I think Red was very nice by the way she responded.
I have a feeling he told her she and the other Arubans were not helping the Aruban cause by slamming Natalee and America ( for example they said we deserved the 9/11 tragedy).
Ask Red…. he seems like a nice guy and was initially very pro-Aruban.
He still is but I think it is a little tempered by what he saw on his site and some of the actions in Aruba over the last 2 weeks.
I think you see Americans who know Aruba having second thoughts.
I believe Aruba needs to look at its own security and deep-seated attitudes, just as America does. I hope Aruba prospers but it will require change ….. not turning a blind eye.
After 9/11, we re-thought our security (some say it is too much)…but we did not say….
“I guess those people in the Twin Towers had it coming to them” and go about business as usual.
Just Wondering :
I never blamed Natalee.. for what happend because i trully believe that nobody deserves to be murderd/kidnapped! i think the people to blame here , are the people who did something wrong to her.
I just dont think you should base your opinion on the arubans, only by the people who posted here. they are just really mad i think about the bad publicity that aruba is getting.! and the lies told about aruba. WE never blamed the america media for our country problem!! we just blamed them from telling lies, i heard that the USATODAY sayd that our country crime rate was higher than Jamaica etc etc?!! like common that is such a lie! CNN said our crime rate of the year was: 2 murders ( because of drugs), and 3 rapes. ( all local people)( which is true). You could never compare that with Jamaica?
so you are basing your opinion on all of the post the aruban people made here.
then that makes me one aruban that wants you to know that not all of us think like the other arubans who posted. SO PLEASEE DONT BASE YOUR OPINION ONLY ON THE PEOPLE WHO POSTED!
by all means, im not basing my american people opinion by the posts done here!!
I remeber once i was in a club …an american tourist came on to me and wouldnt leave me alone,,he kept annoying me because he was drunk and wouldnt let me dance.! but i would never in my life, base my opinion about american people one that ONE guy,! NEVER IN MY LIFE!
Why did you have to end your post by blaming the victim?
She speaks the truth. Not politically correct, but exactly WHERE were these parents who are so assertive now when they presumably paid and thereby allowed their daughter to go on such a trip with only 7 “chaperones” for 123(approx) students ready to party.
She’s not blaming the victim for the crime…just saying that Aruba has become a scapegoat for the guilt and blame the parents and others want to assign.
Had the parents spent an ounce of the investigatory time in due diligence about the drinking age, chaperone #s etc, this would not have occurred.
Had she not been so foolish in her decision making, this would not have occurred. If Americans are so eager to call the islanders stupid and inept, let’s be candid here. This girl’s actions were plain stupid and she put herself in a high risk position. Any sound parent and/or adult would never allow this to have occurred.
You are a HYPOCRITE!!!
You wrote:
I think it’s because the cops are our husbands, wives, sons, brothers, nieces, friends. They are us. They are me.
Yet you go on to write:
We’re just getting tired of being the scapegoat of a young girl making a foolish decision.
HOW IS BLAMING THE VICTIM ANY DIFFERENT THAN AMERICANS BLAMING YOUR JUSTICE SYSTEM for this tragedy? Neither are responsible. There are bad people everywhere — in Aruba and the US.
You can’t sink any lower than blaming the victim, and perhaps you should think a little harder about what you write in the future. Right now your nation is under a microscope, and blaming the victim isn’t helping the world’s opinion of your country right now!
you must know something i dont to be calling natalee a foolish girl. i would blame this blemish on your spotless island on van der sloot, and the brothers kalope. and guess what about the bad press, get used to it.
I meant to add that any sound parent would not have allowed their daughter to go on such a trip.
Many kids go on senior trips, but typically even a bus trip has many other parents along. And certainly the number would give pause to every responsible adult.
It is naive to say that a person does not have some control over their environments , the situations they put themselves into, the risky behavior they indulge (or not).
Its why all the warnings from every expert on the talking head shows is now saying that dress, actions, going to clubs, being alone…..should be avoided.
Those are all risky choices.
If I choose to work in downtown Baghdad, I don’t deserve to be killed as a contractor. But any reasonable person should know doing so is high risk behavior. Does it excuse terror or murder. No, of course not. But it also does not excuse my risky and arguably stupid decision.
Great topic. I am still all for BOYCOTTING ARUBA. Why? The Prime Minister is a perfect example of why I feel this way. He doesn’t care a thing about Natalee, all he cares about is keeping the tourism dollars flowing. This is transparent in every statement he makes. Why should we as consumers spend our money and time in a place that when push comes to shove, tries to sweep something like a missing girl under the rug and hope it all just goes away? You may respond back and say how corrupt the U.S. may be, screwed up Americans are and how it was all the fault of a little 18 year old girl that made a bad decision, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that this tragedy has illustrated how inept, greedy and corrupt some Aruban official are. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!
Just Wondering:
(blamed the American life style)
I have a group of friends, ( 9-10 person) . let me tell you, we would never blame the american life style!!! we know that each country has their own culture,law, etc etc.
WE RESPECT EVERY COUNTRY`S life style!
tonia Says:
June 14th, 2005 at 11:51 am
you must know something i dont to be calling natalee a foolish girl. i would blame this blemish on your spotless island on van der sloot, and the brothers kalope. and guess what about the bad press, get used to it.
tonia-would you call her actions “prudent”? Certainly she was a victim, but unless we find out she was forcibly put into that car or drugged, then getting into a car with 3 strangers/guys at 1 AM is foolish by any standard in the safest city.
I’m a Hater :
You think some aruba officals are corrupt?
i wanna know what did you think about the movie fahrenheit 911?
If i where you i wouldnt be pointing fingers, at other places before taking a good look at my own country!
Hello Kitty:
I would never have felt Arubans had a innate dislike of Americans if it had been just one person. It was many.
Then the posters started conversing, not just posting, in Papiamento.
I can only assume to say even worse things.
I am happy that you do not hold these prejudices.
It would make me uncomfortable thinking so many Arubans felt that way if I were to visit. I spent 2 weeks sailing in the Grenadines and a week in the Dominican Republic.
DR understands they have a security problem and take action.
St. Lucia has a known crime problem and does not seem to be doing much. I was offered drugs by a 10 year old and our boat was broken into on St. Lucia that was in a 2 hour period. $2000 of cash and cameras were stolen.
The rest of the 2 weeks on the southern islands were problem free. Our behaviour was the same……….it was St. Lucia that was different.
Aruba has a choice ……..ignore its problems and become a St. Lucia or take action and become a HAPPY PLACE again.
I wonder:
On Aruba, if they smiled and shook my hand would they be spitting on the ground as soon as I turned away? I would have not thought that had so many Arubans seemed so negative toward US.
All the Natalee blaming detracts from the real reason we should avoid Aruba. This just points out that the law enforcement guys are at best incompetent and at worst corrupt enough to try to cover up a murder/kidnapping. Even if it turns out Natalee just ran away, the fact remains that this investigation has been screwed up from the start. Why should you expect tourists to spend their money in a place that has incompetent and corrupt people running the place? As I said before if your small island government did more to prevent drug/human trafficking you may get some of us to spend our money down there. Until I see capable, non-corrupted officials from your island I will continue to say BOYCOTT ARUBA!
Hello Kitty-
Great argument. Way to think up a logical argument by citing a movie that has been proven to be an extreme exaggeration of the truth (try reading “Micheal Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Guy”). For future reference the old debate trick of shifting blame and making counter accusations doesn’t do anything to dispute the fact that Aruba is a corrupt place held up by drug money and tourist dollars. Enjoy. BOYCOTT ARUBA!
Too bad for you hater, i dont think Micheale Moore is a big fat stupid white guy!
Hello Kitty-
I am glad you like Micheal Moore. Sounds like someone has to do the thinking for you (that was a low blow, I am sorry). Micheal Moore preys on people that don’t want to follow up on the wild claims he makes. I’ll admit his movies sure look convincing and realistic, but so did the propaganda from the Nazi’s and USSR. But this takes away from what I am trying to find out.
Does Aruba really have as corrupt and inept government as it appears to have? Everyone I have seen and heard points to greed, corruption and incompetence running rampant because of greed from drug money and tourism income. Until I find out otherwise, BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!
Just Wondering
(I wonder:
On Aruba, if they smiled and shook my hand would they be spitting on the ground as soon as I turned away? I would have not thought that had so many Arubans seemed so negative toward US. ) Are you nuts?! lol i ALready told you.,,,i`ve been listening to radio stations online an not even ONCE heard them say something bad about the americans! the only things they where upset about was the liesss that the press, told. Nothing else..i dont know why this is even an issue?!
Just wondering:
Which other problems are you talking about?
that i know of. 1 girl dissapeared. Its the first time ever that something like this has happend. so which other problems are we excatlly ignoring?
OOOOOHHHHH people!! the never ending blaming game! if arubagirl said the girl made a foolish desicion…wel it COULD be true. She is young and wants to experiment new things in life…and believe me i’ve seen how american tourist behave when they go out in nightclubs….dear god..let me tell you i’m soooo happy about how my mother raised me!! because what they do is soooo dirty!! they do like they are on girls gone wild. But i’m not saying natalee did a foolish thing..she COULD have……and stop blaming for crying out loud! we all make mistakes in life and we all have to learn from this. I hope this wraps up soon! Arubagirl nice writing!! i totally agree with you!!
I`m a Hater:
In my opinion they dont. but its hard to say, cause maybe somebody else would say that they have. every Aruban has their own opinion. Inept, that am i sure of not! but its hard for me to give facts, its like a think you have to be there to expiernce it, so you can make your own opinion!
and im 100% sure that i can say that every country has its corruption!
Hello Kitty:
There are note so blind as those that WILL not see.
The problem is the denial.
You hate the American press I suppose on what they are reporting.
Give them something else. Talk about what changes Arubans are making to improve their security. Quit blaming Natalee. The story about the whole island searching was a very good story for Aruba. The image of Aruba has gone down steeply ever since.
Now you are getting angry. (AM I NUTS?????) I have not insulted you personally once. Is that an Aruban trait………to start making personal attacks on people who suggest you might want to rethink the “Don’t worry, Be Happy” attitude. ….and get serious about security??????
Just take some positive action, Aruba, and make sure Americans know about it.
(AM I NUTS?????) No, but if Aruba does not realize they have an image problem now, they are.
I did not make this stuff up about Arubans. I just read the posts on this site. Take a look yourself.
The story of EMILY on Fox got a lot of play last week because Mickey John asked her to bring him breakfast …….in bed……… when he was supposed to be a security guard. A guard at a hotel in America would be fired for making a comment like that to a guest.
Just wondering:
HATE is a powerfull word. i dont hate anything or anybody LOl its the first time i hear that the Arubans HATE the american press. My words where that they are MAD at the press.. i never said they HATE! so please dont mix my words because there is a big differnce between HATE and MAD…..if you have read good, what i wrote, (Are you nuts?! lol)….LOL means Laughing out loud. so me saying you are nuts,,wasnt as serious as you thought it was. i meant nuts, in like you must be nuts thinking arubans would spit on the ground when you left. ( in a way like that would never happen) Difficult to explain. so please dont take it personally
Just so you know. An Aruban Reporter tried to talk to one of the americans reporter to ask them why are they only reporting bad stuff about aruba. they didnt want to talk to them. I think because..lets be honest, nobody wants to sit and wathc only good news, everybody likes the “bad” news.
so know i know what you meant with problem, that is DENIAL. i didnt know that`s what you meant. thats why i asked.
im not mad? are you?
No, Hello Kitty, I am not mad at all.
If you asked most Americans about Aruba ( until May 30th) they would say
“Isn’t that in the 1st line in the Beach Boys song” about how wonderful the Caribbean is.
Let’s face it, you need America more than America needs you. We will find some place else to spend our $$$ if Aruba does not actively and publicly take action to clear their name in the US and now International press. Sorry, that is the reality your beautiful country now faces.
I would have loved to have gone to Aruba some day. It is not Natalee or even the thought of crime that has given me second thoughts….it was the anger of so many Arubans toward America.
This is a post from Aruba.com…..That is what I am talking about. Take some action.
Author: Ray (—.acumensolutions.com)
Date: 06-14-05 11:20
I don’t believe for a minute that the Aruban government or the police are covering up a crime here. But I will say that the police need to do something about the drug dealers at Carlos n Charlie’s. They sell marijuana, crack, whatever you want right out on the street. When drugs are around, bad things happen.”"”"
CNN is now reporting Natalee’s Mom said the Aruban investigators are starting to collaborate with her and others and things are going better.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/14/missing.teen/index.html
That is what I mean by positive action…..not blaming and not denying.
She was very harsh on the Arubans after last weekend and the continual screw-ups and lack of communication Because of this action, she is happier.
Honestly, I really think its no ones fault that this happened except for the person/persons who committed the crime. She’s young and adventurous. I’m really tired of everyone blaming everyone. I wish everyone would just work together!
For all those who blame Aruba for a “cover up” or “incompetent police” Let’s look at a case from our own country that happened not too long go but never received the same amount of media attention
1/12/05
Lauren Crossan, 18, of Randolph, N.J., died Jan. 12 during a trip to perform for the college football Hula Bowl. She was “markedly intoxicated” at the time of her death and was susceptible to disorientation. The minimum legal drinking age in Hawaii is 21 Crossan’s naked body was found Monday morning on the grounds of the Hyatt Regency Maui Resort & Spa. Police believe Crossan fell from the balcony of a ninth-floor room occupied by Larson and his friend 19-year-old Donald L. Devorss, also from Folsom.
1/14/05
Two California men were arrested in the death of an 18-year-old New Jersey cheerleader whose naked body tumbled from the ninth floor balcony of a Maui hotel.
The two men, whose identities were not immediately released, were arrested Tuesday on charges of second-degree murder in the death of Lauren Crossan, of Randolph, N.J., said Lt. Tivoli Faaumu. “There was some inconsistency in the statements we received from them,” Faaumu said. “With all of that, we feel that we have enough probable cause to hold them for questioning at this time.”
1/22/05
Police have classified the death as a fatal accident and released Larson and Devorss from custody Tuesday night after they were held for questioning most of the day.
NO ONE CRIED INCOMPETENCE OR COVER UP FOR THIS SITUATION BUT THEY DID NOT HESITATE TO ATTACK LAUREN’S REPUTATION!!!!!
HATE is a word for fascists, not for free people.
I don’t hate people of my own country or of Aruba or of any other when there is ample reason to suspect that they have not CONSCIOUSLY done anything wrong and are trying to do the right thing.
Boycotting Aruba is stupid and I totally guarantee that any attempt at organizing such a boycott will go absolutely nowhere. That is not an island with rampant problem. This is one frickin’ case and one case only!
I think a lot of you would like to think there is more wrong with Aruban officials than there really is. Why, because you are conditioned by watching too many crime movies, to over-dramatize matters in real life.
The real truth of this investigation is in all likelihood a lot more mundane than you might wish, with understaffed and underexperienced island officials making mistakes but by and large doing their best — but so many of you are fantasizing about some big drama because it gets your blood moving or something.
My suggestion, if you want your blood moving, go get on a treadmill or a stairstepper. Check your damn “hate” at the door.
As for me I look forward to the next day soon when I can go again to Aruba. I think there will probably be a lot of Aruban people sincerely glad to see me and other tourists there again, and will be relieved that common-sense Americans are ready to visit the island again and enjoy it once more.
Hiawassee
Who do you think is doing all of this hating?
How about the poster named “I’m a Hater” for starters? This individual sure has posted a lot on these boards.
While I want to say that, of course, those truly responsible for this tragedy are the perpetrators. However that does not release other things from being contributing factors. As a parent, I feel it is unconscionable of any parent to send their youngsters on a trip that has no other purpose than to permit them free access to booze, drugs (if they want it), free sex (if they want it) and gambling. In an 18 year old’s mind, this could be construed as Mom/ Dad’s permission to indulge in those activities, indeed, almost a mandate to do so, even if the child does not normally engage in this type of behavior. Joran is an arrogant, narcissistic scumbag, granted. However, if the other contributing factors are not recognized and addressed, then there will be more Natalee Holloways on future Class trips.
Boycott Aruba
I thought maybe it was this Aruban who is posting on another thread:
You see why I think there may be some Anti-Americanism among Arubans.
This is not unique…………….
domenico the arubian don Says:
take a look at your own goverment fool
with their forein policy (irak)so called weapons of mass destrotion they gonna lose just like vietnam
your white trash are inventers of coroption
dumb ass fool
he fool
you yankees say that your won the war in nam
was that really so dumb ass
you yankees never break the strive of the vietcong
one other thing i do not accept (white/brainwash education)i only use the good parts off it i see you as an inbreed if i look to your history Native Americans are the real Americans
by the way your wright i never past the third grade
i am educated on the street speaking 7 language including your language do you speak my language SMARTASS i am living in real live (but that is something you yankee will never understand)
YOU GOT AN BAD EXPRIENCE ON THE EILAND OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT
I THINK THAT AN ARUBIAN LADY HAS TAKE A LAUGH at looking
at your SMALL PACKAGE you yankees are now for that 4inch won’t work man
justice is only for your white yankees
look at the kkk guy he is being charged now for a crime crime happent in 64 in 2005 charged not convicted you talk
about coroption hahaa
Well just wondering, I understand the economy of Aruba is based on the tourist industry – also know as the “hoptitality” industry. After reading your posting neither I or my family will ever visit Aruba again. ha ha BOYCOTT ARUBA
whats going on now over ther? what have they found out or anything new?
the ones who doesn’t want to go to Aruba anymore…WELL FINE DON’T GO!! The ones who still wants to visit Aruba..GO AHEAD!! stop whining like a baby and go do something better then whine about boycotting or not!! this thing personally won’t stop me from visiting Aruba one day, i think it’s still safer than most other countries. And my kids know better than going drinking and having sex with some person they just knew…it’s all about how you raise your kids……….I hope this doesn’t happen to anyone..have a nice day!
How can youlame a 18 year old for being foolish? Obviously HER fault! KISS YOUR E CON O MEE GOOD BYE.
blame
Yeah, THAT was a mistake.
I will *try* to explain the last sentence.
You say we’re not getting scapegoated? WE have to raise our drinking limit. WE have to change our police force. WE have to look at ourselves. WE have to close down Carlos& Charlie’s. WE have to accept that everyone thinks the worst of us.
Do I blame Natalee being abducted. No. I have posted it here before and will post it again: Was it smart getting in a car with three strange boys? No. Does this mean that getting in a car gives anyone the right to hurt you? No.
To those with children: Please tell me if you’ve ever given your children advice NOT to get in a car with strangers.
Sometimes I doubt if these posters actually READ things, because I have not said one word about racism.
I would be the first to tell you that there is racism.
I always tought my children NOT to get in a car with strangers, i’ve thought them to WATCH OUT for their drinks. to NOT use substances! and i have to say..nothing wrong with them yet!
Just home from work and I want to THANK Island Girl for explaining herself a little better- I still think that the last sentence this morning was unnecessary… But we all get a little passionate about these things… I also want to thank Just WOndering- I didnt thing anyone was reading what i was writing, witch the exception of a few “choice” arubans saying we deserved 9-11 “whatever” This had been very good for me – and i thank everyone here for the good and the bad- my thoughts remain w/ Natalees poor family for having to go through all of this- and for the percentage of arubans that are moved by this for the RIGHT reasons and not their financial reasons- Dowmsizing that island cant/couldnt hurt…. thats for sure… Thanks again everyone- looks likewe are nraring a conclusion SAD as it may be…..
Marie, who ever said that U.S. deserves are unbelievable assholes. Jeesus.
I hear ya- some people are just ridiculous and attention leeches-
Just wondering:
You should really go to Aruba someday when this all calms down, to really make your own opinion. I guess , that would be the best way to make an opinion. By seeing everything with your own eyes.
and for your comment. (I would have loved to have gone to Aruba some day. It is not Natalee or even the thought of crime that has given me second thoughts….it was the anger of so many Arubans toward America.) if you think that in Aruba people have anger towards America? You should never leave the united states then, cause i think almost everywhere you go, you will find people who dont really like america, just look at how many people protested against bush when the war started.
I’ve been to Aruba 4 times and it is one of the most enjoyable and nice vacation spots I’ve ever visited. And I have traveled extensively. The people are very genuine and honest based on my experience.
In a unitended way, the publicity that Aruba has received in this tragedy has only shown unbeievable shots of te beautiful beaches and scenes.
Tourism won’t suffer a bit in my opinion. I think the Arubans are as hurt and upset by this as Americans…they take pride in their island.
Hello Kitty:
I guess that is correct about the feeling of most of the world toward the American people. It is too bad because although every American cares about our young soldiers, according to the latest polls about 1/2 do not support the war and only a little more than 1/2 voted for him. There is a website called http://newamericancentury.org/ that is not anti-Bush….it is Bush and his administration stating as far back as 1997 they thought America should have a Pax Americana, like the ancient Roman Pax Romana where America is meant to basically rule the world. Look at the signatories in the Statement of Principles section.
The Rebuilding of America’s Defenses paper on this site is even more troubling…..
Open the PDF and do a search on Pearl Harbor…..(note this was written in September 2000, not 2001).
But back on topic, it struck me last night that in the US Aruba is often compared to be the size of Washington DC. I nice reference point to show us the small size of your island.
This got me to think of another similarity between DC and Aruba.
The case of Chandra Levy.
She:
1. Disappeared the night before she was to return home to Modesto California after an internship. She was all packed and ready to go.
2. They thought she had gone to jog in a local park (Rock Creek) so a massive search was conducted by hundreds….close to a thousand people with no results.
3. It turned out she was sleeping with an well-know California Congressman…….Gary Condit ( or as the press referred to him CON-DID-IT). All assumed he was involved in some way. The family was very upset, the mother and father where on the news daily demanding answers.
4. The Congressman was very powerful in a swing position. It turned out he pretty much had a new young woman every year or two as they went through internships in the government while his wife remained in California….3000 miles away.
5. Everyone, including the parents, criticized the DC police as incompetent and corrupt
6. They did wait weeks before they started to really lean on the Congressman, even then they just questioned him once or twice. He seemed to be the only one with motive and opportunity…Chandra had told her aunt about the affair with him. He may have been getting nervous. The whole thing appeared to have been handled very badly by the governing officials.
6. No one was every tried for this murder
7. Her body showed up about a year after she disappeared in the park everyone had searched …. but the ravages of the 4 seasons and the park animals left no evidence.
8. It was huge story, probably bigger than Natalee. It has all of the elements that the Natalee story has, unfortunately….fear of power, sex, alleged corruption, etc.
Welcome to the American press. I don’t usually watch Fox.
I watched O’Reilly with Geraldo Rivera on his show as a guest last night.
2 cheeks of the same butt.
The only thing is the people of DC did not criticize Chandra very much nor did they blame the people of Modesto, CA. This has always seemed odd to me that Arubans jump on the US….we are the ones who lost one of our children, not the other way around.
Take care
I hope your country realizes, for its own sake,it will have a Pubic Relations problem after this and take action to bring new people and long-time Aruba lovers back into. what “APPEARS” to be ….. maybe not “IS” a security problem due to lax oversight. Maybe you need the safety of gated all-inclusives as the mainstay for a while. More stringent hiring procedures for guards, guards more visible, etc. etc….
Good morning people, this is a “trial post” some of mine do not always go through. Newstory out of WTVY Father of Jordan files motion to see son.
Police say the father of a 17-year-old Dutch youth who last was seen with a missing Alabama teen-ager near an Aruba beach is demanding that he be allowed to see his jailed son.
The move comes the day after Aruban police came up empty-handed after a new search of a swampy beachfront popular with lovers. They were acting on information from a former security guard who said the Dutch boy and two Surinamese brothers may have lied to police about where they took 18-year-old Natalee Holloway of Mountain Brook.
The three were detained for questioning after she disappeared in the early hours of May 30 and were released. They were formally arrested on Thursday.
The Surinamese brothers told police they had gone to a beach where the Dutch boy and Holloway were kissing in the back of their car before they dropped the girl off.
A police spokesman says the father, a high-ranking judicial official, will file a motion demanding to see his son.
Reading most of this post in the last few day,I undesrtand why people around the world hate us,please thikn twice before writing
just wondering – Aruba’s population is approximately 95,000. DC’s population is 600,000 (the entire metro area is almost 5 million) How can you compare these cases?
Perhaps if Aruba’s hotels are emptied and the all important flow of $s slows to a trickle, then Maybe Aruba can find the resources to SOLVE this case. (unlike the Amy Bradley case)
The only place that the DC searched was Rock Creek Park.
So, the population is pretty irrelevant.
At the time the DC police were focused on Gary Condit much as the Aruban police are focused on Joran van der Sloot.
They did not search DC homes, DC businesses, or even the Potomac.
A body was found in the river during the time Chandra was missing, of course, not hers.
“An Island’s Reputation” sounds like a desperate attempt to cover up the ineptitude of bumbling ploice department that is not ready for big time crime, and not brave enough to ask for assistance. It sounds as if this is a problem that has been pertually ignorned by the authorities. These look like a group of people who are accustomed to getting away with criminal activities as cops look the other way. Problem is, somebody died this time. Are the cops being tight lipped because they (the perps) told them that they dropped her somewhere in an unconcious state, and precious hours went by as she lay dying? And then, after they were released, they claim that she was not there went they went back. Who knows if they disposed of a body, the evidence is gone now.
I am an Aruban who has been living in the USA for 23 years. I must say that I can speak for both sides having lived in both countries and it infuriates me that people that have never been to Aruba are screaming about botcotting the island. I don’t want to down play the whole incident, but it is not fair to blame the island for the action of 3 o4 maybe 4 individuals ( and we don’t really know what happened so we need to say alegidly) If we were going to boycott any place where a crime occurs, we would not be able to leave our houses, here in the USA.
I have been very shocked at some of the lies I have heard about Aruba on some of these news programs (whom I thought were respectable. I am sick of all the “experts” that come on some of these shows telling us wht they think is going on without being familiar with Aruban law.
There is a show here in the Usa called Unsolved Mysteries that has been running for years, meaning we obviously have alot of mysteries that have not been solved. So it is very hypocritical of some people to act like all cases in the USA gets solved.
About Aruban’s being angry with Americans, I can somewhat understand the frustrations because they have been called alot of names since this all has started, and they are proud just like Americans and having read some of the posrtings by Americans, it sounds like you are equally difensive.
I have spoken to my family and friends in Aruba, and they were not angry, they were SAD. They have always been close to America and feel betrayed by all the lies (drug trafficking, people traficking etc) that are being told about them in the American Media.
There feeling is that they are doing everything to help and none of that is being repoted. The government gave their employees 1/2 day off to help with the search. Do you think this would ever happen in this country? I think not!!
“We’re just getting tired of being the scapegoat of a young girl making a foolish decision.”
– That is the stupidest most offensive thing I have heard in a while. I was basically agreeing with you up to that point, but if that’s at all representitive of Aruban opinion, than much the criticism of Aruba is justified. The fact that you would go out of your way to blame someone who is probably the victim of some heinous crime is repulsive.
Most people do not blame Aruba for this trajedy, but if that opinion is widely held, than perhaps they should. Of course there are many assholes like you in the U.S. and the ideas they propogate definitely contribute to violence against women here.