RSSStories Changing Yet Again
But our correspondent from Aruba thinks that it is not true. The newstory is that the brothers dropped of Johan at home and then left with Natalee. Or Natalee and Johan were dropped off by the brothers.
Aruba Girl sent us a note that says.
It would be stupid to drop J first off at his home and then go back to drop off Natalee if you’re coming from the lighthouse.
Local and international press went to a search site with NH’s family, no news on the results. They don’t want to give up the location of the site in order to avoid a crowd forming there.
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Cracks have emerged in the stories of three young suspects in the case of an American teen who went missing in Aruba two weeks ago, FOX News has learned.
The three young men have reportedly changed their stories since being moved to separate jail cells, Chris Lejuez, the lawyer for one of two security guards who were taken into custody June 5, told FOX News.
One of the trio detained since June 9, the Dutch son of a judicial official, is now saying that his two Surinamese friends — who are brothers — dropped him off at his house after he exchanged e-mail addresses with Natalee Holloway (search) and said goodnight, Lejuez said.
The brothers have also changed their story, now saying they left their friend with Holloway at the beach that night, FOX has learned.
The Dutch teenager, 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot (search), and the Surinamese brothers, 18-year-old Satish Kalpoe (search) and 21-year-old Deepak Kalpoe (search), originally told police they brought Holloway to a lighthouse beside the island’s Arisha Beach, but didn’t get out of the car.
The Kalpoe brothers also told police that Holloway and Van Der Sloot were kissing passionately in the back seat of the car. They said they dropped her off at her hotel about 2 a.m. and last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off, a lawyer for the brothers has said.
This whole thing is starting to hit the level of a bad soap opera. General Hospital goes to Aruba.
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Comments
466 Responses to “Stories Changing Yet Again”
I think they are all involved. If you had nothing to do with it, why would you make up a story about dropping her off at the holiday inn?
These 3 guys are covering their asses. Their stories are bull. They were all involved and all know what happened to her.
This is old news in the cyber world
It’s possible that Joran let himself get suckered in by the 21-year-old. He could’ve put pressure on him to go along with their bs story, and Joran might have been stupid and shallow enough to do it–to even be cocky about it when Natalee’s parents talked to him.
I was typing and POOF…everyone was gone!
DaveN: I agree with you 150%
I agree Juvenal.
I think that Joran is a weak person, that is trying to be a hardass.
I know from Natalee’s moms interview that she met all 3 but Joran is the only one she said was “cocky and arrogant”. Do the other 2 speak English I wonder?
What does the 18 year old do? Does he work go to school?
At least now they’re starting to turn on each other. Hopefully, it’s only a matter of time now.
Why would the brothers drop the two off 10- 15 miles away from the hotel with no car?
A weak person with photos of himself with leashes around others necks practically choking them, favorite song is about your *itch giving you oral sex, profession is a pimp and beats up classmates? Wow…he is really trying to cover up his weakness VERY well.
DId they drop Joran off coming from the lighthouse or the club? I don’t think it was said.
I think that if they weren’t involved, their stories wouldn’t be so different from eachother. They are trying to cover eachothers behinds. Van der Sloot wouldn’t be saying he was dropped off at home when his friends are saying they dropped him off at the beach. GEEZ These guys are so guilty! I could understand a little difference in stories but not so different that he was dropped off as other places…DUMB!
Friend of Mickey’s…are you still here?
I like 50 cent so the music I can’t say has any relation to him as a person. I am a soccer mom who enjoys eminem and 50 cent. It is just entertainment. It is when you try to take that entertainment, and make it your personality.
DT:
Depends on which story you read. Stories keep changing. Like I said earlier, I think Joran was dropped off first, alright…only AFTER Natalee was ‘raped and dumped’.
DanN
You are correct. We are starting to see why teens cannot withstand the interogation. Before you know it that will all be turning on each other. As they say, first one to make a deal …
If you look closely at the picture of the 3, Joran looks to me like the guilty one. I think the other 2 brothers although older, are followers of Joran. I think all 3 of them are guilty! I agree with BamaBabe…they are starting to turn on each other. The truth is starting to surface, and I think it is a matter of days before the world finds out what REALLY happened to Natalee.
But how are we supposed to believe that Joran got home from the Lighthouse? Could the “bruises” be from a fight between the boys over the situation? I don’t know if he had bruises I just heard that.
yeah Angela and in the meantime while they play their little mind games poor Natalee’s family is sitting in a hotel room on a paradise island which to them is ugly and scary place I am sure…all the while waiting and hoping for word on their baby.
I think we will now the truth on or by Wednesday.
Okay, with all due respect to everyone’s separate opinion…I am SO tired of hearing about the S & M pic of Joran having a belt around someone’s neck–if you look closely at it, the person was pretending to be horrified and they were all really laughing!!! It was a joke! Kids do stupid and goofy things. It was an innocent joke with kids goofing around.
With that having been said, YES, I believe Joran is a punk and poseur, spoiled, rich, undisciplined, etc. etc. But I am SO tired of people going all out to sensationalize things that have absolutely NO meaning! We Americans are no better than our stupid media…anything to inflame!!!
Look deeper than surface folks. This is too mysterious and fragmented to look at surface elements.
They really just need to give up. If I were interviewing them, I’d be like, “the other guys are talking now and you need to speak up before they rat you out”
Now, the truth will come out…the brothers’ stories will mesh much better than J VdS’s…I’m almost sure!
I’m glad to see something’s finally happening–the lies are falling apart, and even people like Mason from last night have to admit that these bastards are at least liars.
*ORIGINAL STORY* from Scum Bros. and Dutch-Bag: The four of us went to the lighthouse then dropped Natalee off at her hotel.
*NEW STORY #1″ from Dutch-Bag: I got dropped off at home and the Scum Bros. drove off with Natalee.
*NEW STORY #2″ from Scum Bros.: We left Natalee and Dutch-Bag at the beach.
Don’t forget Joran holds up fake gang signs. He is a wannabe ganster. Not a really one. It is easy to look tough.
Hmm.. How likely is it that the authorities NEED another Aruban prisoner in proximity to Joran or the brothers to overhear and then have the appropriate attorneys spread the gossip.
I’m suspecting that it would be illegal for Aruban authorities to tell these tales.
I guess it is more a question of Aruban laws. Am I off base?
Natalee Holloway: “Possibly” Breaking News OR is this “General Hospital Goes To Aruba”
Local and international press went to a search site with NH’s family, no news on the results. They don’t want to give up the location of the site in order to avoid a crowd forming there.”
After the last week of breaking something and then retracting it a couple of hours later, we are happier waiting a bit before posting.
We are having about 2-3 thousand people an hour coming through, so for the commenters this is old news, for the google searchers this is hot stuff.
T
The truth will prevail. My first year in college something happened like this with my friends one of them was an attorneys son. The body of the person killed was disposed of in a swamp eventually, all involved were arrested, and finally one was convicted for life. Things like this always catch up with people. Friendships aren’t important enough for any teenager to throw away his life. I just hope that this family gets the closer it needs…. and they find natalee and bring her home. As a mom, I can’t imagine not knowing where my daughter was.
Sharon, I would buy that if that were the only thing he posted. Did you look at the entire site? IMO there are a lot of things posted on personal sites like that that if you were to read, are what people are doing in real-life. Trust me.
We need a good ol’ Dragnet Duo to go in and play Good Cop/Bad Cop for a few minutes. I really think these guys are ready to break…
I do not understand why it is so hard to get the truth from these kids…It should not be that hard to make these kids crack! After changing their stories 3 times, i think there is enough to charge these kids….Regardless of who did what……..They all know something, which makes them all equally guilty(witholding information is a crime! . Joran says that they sat by the pool and made up one story….. Who in their right mind would go along with a story involving a missing girl…just to “help his friends” not to mention..Not ask what the hell happened…!!!!Now that their stories are not goin the way they want..they are turnin on eachother to save themselves! Anyone agree?
If the Scum Bros. and Dutch-bag would have been brought to the US for interrogation, this case would have been solved on May 31st!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kelly the only thing I can agree on right now is that Natalee Holloway left C&C with 3 guys and she has never been seen since.
Beyond that, I am not convinced of anything.
I agree, Kelly…yep…they’re turning on each other quite quickly!
Jake, whatever. Again, when you interogate people and scream or intimidate them they seize up and become defensive. You need to set a trap to get them talking thinking they were off the hook and free. That’s what they did when they initially let them go. Surveillance, wiretapping, etc.
Either all 3 of them are involved and know what happened but I don’t think VDS did it by himslef. At what beach did the brothers drop Natalee and VDS off? If it’s far from the hotel or VDS’s home? that would not make sense since he doesn’t have a car. And to hide a body that well on such a small Island, you must be two or 3 I guess, even if you would want to drop her in to the ocean, you would need a car and some to help you with the body. Just throwing it in the water is useless, it will wash ashore immediately
I don’t think it is VDS alone, either he is telling the truth or he is in it with the two other guys…
Kerin, Yes, I saw the entire site long before it was breaking news or any of the pictures showed up on the media sites. The picture was of Joran laughing and holding a belt which was around the neck of a shorter kid, who was laughing and pretending to shreik–it was obviously a goof. But yes, I did see his site and also the one that everyone is talking about before the arrest that was taken off–MSN’s site was taken off much later. He had a habit of meeting girls on the internet that were planning to come to Aruba and hooking up with them. Yes, I agree that he is a punk kid that needed to have his parents kick his a– regularly and keep closer tabs on him–he ran with a bad crowd and had too much freedom, according to our American standards.
I am only stating something on that ONE picture that everyone is sensationalizing–it isn’t what everyone is trying to make it be–it is not S & M, it is a goof.
That’s all! And thanks for your opinion, but kids these days are much much more sexually expressive and aggressive, thanks to this medium that we are enjoying right now. (I don’t agree or condone it with my own kids, I just know what my teens tell me–this is one pandora’s box, the internet, and unless we as parents keep a lid on it, kids can get into something much bigger than they are–as in this case!)
Van Der Stool Sample and his two manservants will sing like canaries soon if they haven’t already. 3 little punks are no match for professional interrogation tactics.
Thsi is not premeditated murder but second degree. These guys panicked whatever they did but I do not believe that they have the criminal mind to conjure up elaborate methods of hiding Natalee.
Captain: I agree with you….read my post from last week:
MOMfromMO Says:
June 10th, 2005 at 10:33 am
I think there will be lots of breaking news to come, as I feel strongly that the real culprits are in custody. One of them will ‘break’….guaranteed. I just hope their detectives have the skill to craftfully squeeze the truth out of them.
There are ‘tactics’ used to get suspects to talk (ie, playing one suspect against the other; mean cop, nice cop, and so on).
I also think we’ll know something VERY VERY soon. The officials must be feeling the pressure, to not try every resource they have.
have they all been in trouble before and gotten away with it? this is my theory on wht they are staying so calm and sticking to stories – they have been coached and they have also no respect for the “system” OR they are covering for something bigger like some drug lord or pimp that they “report to” probably not likely but NONE of this makes a bit of sense
Sharon…is it OK if I send Tom my e-mail address to send to you? Didn’t want to post here…
Your points are well taken!
Booya…you’re right. I like the old way of doing it…
Detective: “Is your name Jaron Van der Sloot?”
Van der Sloot: “Yes.”
Detective pushes the button on the copy machine which was previously loaded with two sheets of paper, one with a Yes and one with a No. Paper spits out with “Yes” on it.
Detective: “Did you rape and kill Natalee?”
Van der Sloot: “No.”
Detective pushes button again, but this time, “No” spits out.
Detective: “Liar!!!”
Van der Sloot: “Okay…okay…I confess!”
Instead of cracking, this sounds like it could be a pre-rehearsed strategy. If they don’t talk at all, there is a possibility the 3 could be found guilty even without a body. However, if they point the finger at each other, how could you convict one over the other without any evidence? I could be wrong with this, but I would not be surprised if their lawyers came up with this strategy.
We also don’t know why these kids would have covered for eachother to begin with. Not just Joran covering for the brothers but supposedly the brothers covered for Joran? What did any of them get out of it?
Yeah, Kelly, I’d definitely say they’re turning on each other, and that’s the break this case needed. As long as they all stuck to the story they concocted and Natalee wasn’t found, the police wouldn’t really have anything on them except the lack of evidence that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel. As soon as one of them started breaking from their story and pointing the finger (either in reality or just made up by the police–which is probably the oldest interrogation tactic in the books) the others start pointing the finger right back.
It may be all one person’s fault or the others, but even if it isn’t and all three were in on it, they’re no longer conspiring together and somebody may be willing to tell the truth–even if they were involved–in exchange for a lesser sentence and completely ratting out the others.
Marie from Maine:
I think I remember seeing on Van der Sloth’s site (when it was posted), that he took Anger Management classes. That’s usually a court-ordered class. I don’t think that’s an elective in school. That’s the only thing I know of, anyway.
even the former FBI agent on Geraldo last night said 2 weeks was not a long period of time to break a case. Plus let’s remember, for whatever reason, the 3 were not arrested until last Thursday, correct? 4 days to turn on each other is not bad. They are probably exhausted and worn down…punks.
They could be a band: Dutch-Bag and the Scum Bros.
Under these circumstances, my sensibilities wouldn’t be offended by using the old “L.A. Confidential” style of suspect interrogation: Smart cop asks the questions while burly, dumb cop “ensures the suspect’s cooperation”
Then again, Lynndie England is going to go to jail for mocking prisoners’ genitals.
Maybe daddy (judge) van der sloot drilled them on exactly what they needed to do and say while in custody?????
I don’t think Joran’s daddy had much to do with this. Joran is a honor student, that has watched his daddy play lawyer his whole life. I am sure he knows his ins and outs of the law. More than the other two do.
I wonder if this (no matter the outcome) will mean the end of Daddy VDS’s legal career?
If interrogators made a mistake in interviewing these guys it has to do with no using enough “bluff” tactics. You need to understand the mind of a 17 to 21 year old; they’re a little bit more gullible and not experienced dealing with confrontation. If I was the interrgator I would have said from the get go that we have uncovered DNA(HAIR , SALIVA) at a crime scene and it better not be yours………and stick to the story looking them straight in the eye!!!!!!
Kerin, I suppose it wouldn’t hurt…
http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4600626/detail.html?rss=sac&psp=news
Natalee’s stepfather is going to organize a search of his own…according to the above story.
Probably will have better success…
Boo…you need to go into law enforcement
momfrom mo-
i think some of these things we all think of may just be helpful, you now over looking the obvious, staying calm becasue they have been in trouble for it and gotten away with it…. well? i personally think that the the dutch punk called his daddy when crap went “wrong” and we will never know the sevarity of this i PRAY for her family and friends that this isnt the case but it would make more sense…
So, Sharon, a “joke” pic is OK but when something similar was taken in Iraq, as a joke, the media were hysterical enough to call it an “outrage”.
Maybe these punks should be threatened with Gitmo, bet they’d sing really quickly.
Why did they just move them to separate cells?
FOXNEWS.COM
The three young men have reportedly changed their stories since being moved to separate jail cells
I interrogate and read people everyday. I smell doodoo from very far away
I think the boys could be changing their stories now, because even if a body is found it would be impossible to prove who is telling the truth. So they figure if they give 2, conflicting and unprovable stories, the jury won’t know who to believe.
deep doo doo
so Boo…what aroma is coming from “HairAldo”?
MissyRose Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 1:52 pm
But how are we supposed to believe that Joran got home from the Lighthouse? Could the “bruises” be from a fight between the boys over the situation? I don’t know if he had bruises I just heard that.
possibly how J got home from LH involves suspect 4th/6th arrest of which has been alluded to but not confirmed
I’m sorry to interject, but..I just want to see if I got this straight.
Aruba basically ordered a media and information shutdown this mgn, but..
now we have got “confirmation” of conflicting stories from the three “boys” originating from where? …one of the jailed guards who has “overheard” the dutch boy talking to his jailers and who then tells this story to his attorney , double hearsay I suppose it would be called, who then releases it to the public media, despite the shut-down. Not coming froma public or police official. And, after all the missleading information over the weekend…none of this bothers anyone?
I’m sorry, but…I’m not even one of the parents and I feel like Ive been on an emotional rolloercoaster and really dont want to get mislead again.
Does anyone know what (if any) physical evidence was found in the car, or in the house of any of the 3 guys?
question: if they do go on trial is there a jury or just a judge deciding their fate?
“Wopner on in 5″
“Wopner on in 4″
That’s what is missing…Judge Wopner. I bet he could have seen the lies from the truth.
judge
For those of you who think Van der Sloth is innocent: Why didn’t he go to the police, as soon as Natalee went ‘missing’, and tell the cops, “You know, I was with Natalee last night, but she went with the Kalpoe brothers”.
But NNNNOOOOO! He couldn’t do that…..He was there, right along with the brothers…committing the crime.
MOM-
I never said innocent. No matter what part he took in it. He is guilty. But do I think he killed her alone? No. I don’t see it possible.
Martha it is a tribunal of judges if I remember correctly.
In Aruba, from my sources, no jury, only judge’s decision.
Also, Stan, I frankly don’t care about the pics in Iraq…Stupid media overkill and off subject….
Kerin TX-As I posted earlier, Geraldo will be meeting with Aruba’s gay community later on to get their take on the developments. Interview will be conducted in the jaccuzzi ath the Holiday Inn
“question: if they do go on trial is there a jury or just a judge deciding their fate?”
I believe there are no juries–the accused faces three judges (IIRC). Afterward, both the government and the defense can appeal the verdict (each side can get a “do-over” if they don’t like the result). I believe the case would go to a higher judge/judges. Appeals from that court would go the the Netherlands’ equivalent of the Supreme Court. At least that’s what I think I remember from reading a law expert’s comments.
Boo!!! Are the video cameras working at the HI to cpature the moment??
MissyRose:
My comment was not directed at you…Really! I just had another gut feeling as to why I think VDS is guilty.
Sorry.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the tribunal judge appointed to this case is Judge Van Der Sloot!!!
LOL @ Jake! No kidding! Absolutely NOTHING would surprise me at this point.
This is turning into a real soap!
ARUBA LEGAL SYSTEM: http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/simon/
Hi, diz iz Heralldo….exclusive tonight, I’ll be getting a complete makeover from the QUEER EYE FOR THE ARUBA GUY team, including a complete body hair wax removal
if j was not involved what possible motive would he have had to originally go along with
the made up ‘pool scheme’ – seems to me he would have started pointing fingers the minute the wrath of his fatehr came down, do you think he would have cared about the kelpoes’ necks @ that point
I am a potential tourist. I am one of those people you are trying to protect by trying to make us think that nothing violent happened to this girl named Natalie. In doing this you obviously do not understand Americans. We are suspicious by nature. We have experienced being manipulated. We know your country is manipulating us to try to make us think your country is safe.
The funny thing is we would think your country is safer if you could quickly prove what happened to the missing girl and would deal with the offenders harshly and properly. That is what makes Americans feel safe in a country, not pretending nothing happened. If you want tourism to flourish in your country you will find out what happened. You will not cover it up. You will prosecute the crime. You will then reap the benefits.
If you don’t handle it this way you will reap the consequences. Americans will feel you are soft on crime. They will be afraid to come because they know if anything happens you won’t do anything about it. They will know they are not safe in your country.
These boys know what happened. These boys did something to this girl. All Americans feel strongly about that. Now its your time to do something. Prove to us crime is not allowed there. Prove to us we are safe when we come because criminals are dealt with.
LOL Boo. Do they have that much wax in Aruba??
LOL @ Boo! I appreciate you keeping this light on here…but…shame on you! I thought this site pertained to Natalee.
No, I’m not a prude….just keeping you in check.
Based on what I’ve read, VDS isn’t a judge yet. He’s studying to become one, and he is now currently an attorney.
I have been reading for several days yet and haven’t commented much. First of all, I would like to say that my heart goes aout to all of Natalee’s family and friends. I hope they find Natalee soon so the family can have some resolution. I can only imagine how they feel. If one of my kids disappeared, I would probably have to be sedated. I can really relate to this story b/c some creep tried to pick me up in the Bahamas when I was 17, and when he was rejected, he became aggressive. Fortunately for me, I was still in a crowded bar with my friends.
Has anyone heard anything else about the Dutch navy staying in Aruba instead of leaving port? My husband’s theory is that they may need divers. I hope and pray that’s not the case.
Theodore Simon:
In fact, if they’re charged, they’ll appear in front of a single judge and be tried. If convicted, they have the right to a trial de novo, which, in effect, means a do over, and have a trial in front of a three-judge panel. However, that may seem helpful to the defense. On the other hand, if they are acquitted at the single judge trial, the government can appeal — something that could not happen here.
We have double jeopardy protections, and they do too in certain limited instances. But their system operates differently. And now we shouldn’t pre-judge theirs as being worse or better than ours, it’s just different. And their system, as I said, they do not have jury trials. They do not have trials, as we know them.
But a person, if charged, will appear in front of a single judge. They will still have the same standard of being proven beyond a reasonable doubt as to all the elements. But a single judge will render judgment of guilt or non-guilt. However, if the person is found guilty, they can then ask for a new trial, in fact, a do over. On the other hand, the government can ask for a do over.
After that three-judge trial, either party could appeal to the Hague in the Netherlands for questions of law.
You know what all this talk of investigation and interrogation is reminding me of?
There was such an uproar in the U.S. and international press over Lynndie England making fun of some guys’ wieners, yet when a terrorist videotapes himself sawing off an American’s head, no one in the press cares about that.
Same with this stuff about Koran mishandling. That thing in Newsweek about a Koran getting flushed down the toilet was a bald-faced lie. Ahem, although it’s absolutely true that some of the detainees themselves tore pages out of their U.S.-government-provided Korans and dropped them down the commodes.
Then the rest of the MSM rallied around Newsweak, saying they can find lots of other instances of disrespect to the Koran.
You know what constitutes “disrespectful handling” of the Koran? If a non-Muslim even touches one with his hand, since non-Mulsims are “unclean,” according to the fundamentalist Islam worldview. So if a Gitmo guard even picks one up off of the floor without putting gloves on, the Marines have to document that as “disrespectful handling” of the Koan.
Sorry for the OT post, but this has got me pretty fired up.
I really wish we had more background on the 2 brothers. The whole part about exchanging email addresses with natalee would tend to lend some credence to his story about her leaving with the 2 brothers. He’s not smart enough to make up that little detail. But even if he is telling the truth about being dropped off first, I’m sure he got a call at some point from the brothers telling him something had happened. Anyone know if they’ve looked into phone records to see if any calls were made by the brothers later that night to van der slut’s cell or house phone?
MOM from MO- As I stated yesterday, my comments might appear a little irreverent, howver, it is mere right brain humor speculation, just like everybody else is doing on this board. But I only make fun of the reporters and government officials.
Thank you for that info, Matt. Seems very reliable. You are right though…It’s certainly ‘different’.
I got all the background I needed from their websites….you’ve seen all the pics of those guys together…thug life to say the least
juvenal shut up and stick to the topic.
spec1, he would have cared about the brothers if he had given her drugs that later played a part in her death after he got dropped off.
Sorry, Boo…didn’t have access to my pc yesterday…I was just pokin fun atchya!! I like your humor!
Penny, I agree with a lot of what you posted but should the Aruban LE revamp their entire way of investigating a crime and the way they relay information to the public to meet what us Americans think is an “appropriate timeline”? The only one who is manipulating us is the US press by pushing for “facts” when the Arubans were not yet ready to divulge and then posting them for the entire world to read. We have to trust that, with the help of the FBI, Aruban LE is doing their job, their way, under their timelines.
We as Americans always want “quick satisfaction”. I am sorry to use this term in relation to the disappearance of Natalee but it’s true. OF COURSE we all wish we knew what had happened to her but to say that the way they are handling this case is wrong just because it is not the “American Way” is wrong in itself IMO.
LOL Jay – van der slut’s!!
I agree, Kerin.
jay – absolutely right, did not occur to me, in that scenario, i wonder who i more culpable…?
Stupid , Stupid , Stupid americans low i.q. , killers opf populations around the world why don’t you focus on the problems you have in your own country
Just because we do things one way does not make that way better or right. We have taken much longer to solve missing persons cases in this country.
Heraldo here…..the fellas from the QUEER EYE maker over team will attemp to make me look like John Oates, the scary looking guy from the famed 1980′s duo, which shouldn’t be hard to do since I’m blessed with 1970′s male porn star quality good looks. Now back to you in Atlanta
In the US we would have more incentive to push for physical evidence immediately because we can’t make an arrest without out it. In aruba they can detain people just because they maybe, might have had something to do with the crime. The system doesn’t reward quickly gathering physical evidence.
Ah, OK “anonymous.” Whatever you say, “anonymous.”
You’re right, “anyonymous.” No one needed or wanted to hear about any of that, “anonymous.” It’s my goal to some day be as smart and on-topic as you, “anonymous.”
There are times though in this country that I wish we could detain people for a while before we have to have all the evidence to do so. I see pros and cons to both systems.
jankee:
You do not appear to be in much of a position to be questioning Americans’ I.Q.
I shudder to think what kind of physical evidence they could’ve gotten rid of in the 10(!!!) days they had to walk free. Now that we’re hearing different stories, we may never know what happened to poor Natalee.
spec1, depends on the situation. if she overdosed while with the brothers then Joran would be more culpable. If the brothers took advantage of her while she was drugged up and something happened, then they are.
good – glad you understand that, now carry on.
“Stupid , Stupid , Stupid americans low i.q. , killers opf populations around the world why don’t you focus on the problems you have in your own country”
Well, we do have a lot of problems in our country, I’ll admit.
But the short answer to your question is that so many problems in other countries end up with DEAD AMERICANS. That’s why.
it’s absolutely ridiculous that it took so long to detain them…therer is no way you can tell me that this investigation has not been biased
I think Geraldo Rivera is in Aruba attempting to produce the movie “The Sound of Music” part duo featuring the Von Sloot family!!!!!!!
This happens in the US all the time because police may not have enough probable cause to get a warrant, so days go by while evidence is being destroyed. Happens all the time.
Smart guy Juvenile
yeah dragon, but in aruba they don’t need they don’t need probable cause…so why not detain the men immediately after they learned the girl never made it back to HI?
Trus, Ben. Maybe their method is to wiretap and do surveillance? Hopefully that was what they did and then after 10 days had enough to arrest the 3 punks.
Also as sad as it is, Aruban LE probably did feel they needed more than the average amount of proof before arresting Joran because of his family. And what would be so strange about that?? (thinking back on the Kennedy cousin (Smith) or how about good old Teddy and the girl he drowned?)
If you are innocent…you dont change stories…. That is the only reason why i believe this kids are all in on it. If he doesnt have anything to do with the disappearance..Joran shouldnt have agreed to go along with the story!
Bingo! It appears to be colonialism at its best. Try to pin the crime on the natives…it’s ridiculous those 2 security guards are still in prison.
high-fives to Kelly!!! Exactly!
they didn’t wiretap the guards though…they went in right away
Hi Heraldo here in Aruba…I would like to invite Jake over to my room later for a night cap and perhaps the viewing of some 8mm 1970′s skin flick movies if the mood is right…now back to you in atlanta
I do agree with that. I wondered why they were not detained sooner myself. I’m not saying they haven’t made mistakes with this investigation, but that our system really may not be any better than theirs. They just didn’t utilize the advantages they had. They should have detained them and went for forensics immediately. But I’m just saying that our system doesn’t work so well either sometimes because of the legal limitations that don’t allow us to do what they could and should have done.
Oh yes sir…”anonymous.”
I’ll do that, “anonymous.”
By the way, “anonymous,” I love how you hide behind the “anonymous” thing when you want to say something rude.
Get a life, “anonymous.”
If van der slut is telling the truth, it should be provable. When most 17 year old’s, that are into the internet enough to have their own website and be members on singles sites, get home late, they’ll usually check their email to see what they have. Especially if you’re a ladies man and spend your time collecting tourists’ email addresses. I know forensics in aruba are different than here, but you should still be able to see what time he logged on, or made a phone call, or something to back up or refute his time line
Jake? Who’s Jake?
**covers her ears, just like hear-no-evil**
LOL
You’re welcome, MOMfromMO. Those words are actually Theodore Simon’s from the CNN article. I while back a read a little about the Schappelle Corby case that has Australians up in arms. Apparently there’s investigation in Australia into a drug smuggling ring involving airport baggage handlers transporting drugs in people’s luggage. Corby went on vacation to Bali with her family and the Indonesian security guard found marijuana in her bag. She denied it was hers and the Bali police messed it up so it couldn’t be fingerprinted. Some time after the arrest, a prisoner overheard another prisoner commenting on the smuggling ring and the mix-up that got Corby in trouble. Her defense wasn’t allowed to call any witnesses for her, and their legal system presumes guilt and you must prove your innocence. A couple weeks ago she was sentenced to 20 years in Indonesian prison, very kind by their standards, while the prosecution is appealing for at least life in prison. The offense is punishable with death by firing squad. The Australian government is sending lawyers for an appeal and negotiating a prisoner transfer if that doesn’t work, while the public has been going nuts over there. It just makes an interesting point about travelling: remember that when going to a foreign country, you’re placing yourself under the protection and at the mercy of the local law enforcement and judicial system.
He just posted something about Geraldo on this board
I just don’t believe they have the manpower on aruba to do a thorough investigation
Sharon
Agreed re pics, just saying how someone’s idea of fun can cause a ruckus.
That is true, Jay. The tickle site he was using will still have records of all his logins, etc…plus it doesn’t matter if he took his site down or not, there are still backups. I don’t know if things on his site can be used in Aruba but they sure can in the US.
Kelly-van der sloot may have gone along with the story because while he may not have killed her, he would still be guilty. If he drugged her and that came back and caused a role in her death, he would be held responsible and his father’s name would be tarnished on the island. So you come up with a blame game story trying to get off scot free. Once the details of your blame game story start to unravel, you may start to crack knowing that you aren’t the one who ultimately committed the worst of the crimes, and you don’t want to go down for it.
Ohhhhh! Well, don’t let Jake drink too much!
They don’t have the manpower or experience (this isn’t entirely bad – having little crime). Let’s all hope the FBI and Dutch “experts” help them wrap this up quickly.
Have they checked phone records or anything like that? From everyone? These kids had to have been sloppy at some point! Cant believe forensics have not found ANYTHING!
Good afternoon everybody, keeping my fingers crossed for the best. See ya!
Fox, et al (MSM) trotting out “experts” who obviously know less than even the most casual partipant of this forum isn’t helping. A little while ago they had some legal “expert” say that Aruba is an indepenant country. Now they have an “expert” saying the trip had “lots of chaperones”. Unbelievable!
Bye Boo!!
Juvenal you are ignorant, seems like you’re the one who needs to get a life, you are arguing with a troll!
doesn’t matter if he took his site down…i know a couple of people that saved everything on their hard drives from each of his sites….imho, i think some questions need to be asked about his other friends….ok, everyone saw NH get into the car w/ 3 guys…but did they meet anyone else?
You may be right, Ben. And maybe (I said “maybe”), this event will cause them to take a look at that and change it. I do believe there is probably more crime there than is reported. Just like some cities in the US make “adjustments” to their crime rates to look safer to people and businesses, I believe that probably happens there too. There is also the issue of “unreported crimes” that we have in the US that I am sure they have there. So, they probably need to make changes.
Bye all. I will be back to check on the updates!
Kelly:
My guess is…what forensics? A REAL forensics department. Doubt it. I’d bet they’re not equipped…if any tests are done, it’ll probably have to be sent to Quantico.
Not that it matters (no, not blaming them) but has anyone ever heard if the 7 chaperones were teachers…parents of kids on the trip…college students..?
On local radio they are saying that Natalee had a boy friend in Alabam. Do any one know anything about this?
Harp, I don’t know, but one of her friends on here yesterday said that she didn’t.
Kerin–
Someone posted some of the chaperones names and numbers up here last night. They were faculty, and parents.
Obviously he’s a troll, Jacob. This is my fault, somehow?
Actually, I haven’t seen you in on the discussion here, at all until now. Hmm.
Karin I posted what I did not to satisfy the *American Way* but to let the Arubans know that we are not stupidly going to sit by and let them try to manipulate our thoughts in this case or about their ability to be a great place for tourists.
We can clearly see there is foul play ( i.e. stories changing, etc) in this case and will not feel comfortable going to Aruba until we see action to support that. I want them to know how we think. I wanted them to see that the answer is not to sweep it under the rug hoping we will not notice.
I want them to believe that an action of that sort will resort in damaging their economy, and that even the special son of an official is not worth that damage to their islands financial stablility if he is found to be involved.
I don’t know Natalie or her family but I do have a daughter and this is a very real occurance. I feel for her family and want justice served with out cover ups. Thats all.
no stupid petty fighting…that gets old fast and I don’t want to puruse through it to find relevant intelligent discussion
I just logged on to check for updates, thanks for noticing
Thanks, Missy. I know everyone from the HS is saying they don’t place any blame with the chaperones but (being a HS teacher and chaperone for trips myself) I wonder what kind of legal obligation they have in this (if any)? Their agony and guilt is punishment enough but things have a way of turning into lawsuits for school districts.
chapperones were parents or aunts and uncles of people attending the trip. Much like the “chapperones” on my senior trip, they are there in case someone gets in trouble with police, injured and needs to go to the hospital, etc. they are not there to babysit and should be held no more accountable than any of us. 7 people, 124 kids….
No, they signed a release stating specifically that it was not school sponsored
Kerin–
You can sue anybody for anything, sadly.
If the chaperones do end up getting sued, it will be another media event, which will lend credence to the suit, whether it has any merit or not.
Has anybody heard any new updates, besides what is on cnn.com?
Are there any Arubans on here?
Fox is saying the’ll give new details in a few minutes. Not sure if this is actually new news or just a rehash of today’s news.
I wonder why Natalee’s friends let her leave alone with these three guys. I wonder if the chaperone’s/parents warned them at the begining of the trip to stick together at all times in pairs.
Does anyone know if they are using lie detector tests?
I personally believe that Joran is the guilty party – the other 2 bros are his flunkys, and just went along with whatever Joran wanted them to. Maybe they were afraid of him, maybe they were “awed” by him.
That is my gut feeling, with no evidence or knowledge to back it up.
I wonder if Natalee’s parents would really sue the chaparones. I have to think that some of them are probably friends of theirs.
Natalee’s parents said earlier that they do not place blame on the chaperones.
Natalee’s parents previously stated, I believe, that they did not blame chaparones. Probably because they weren’t really chaparones.
I’ve heard that her parents aren’t mad at the chaparones.
Prayer: I’m with you on the lie detector tests…..They should use those if they haven’t already
Gotta go…will check back later for updates.
I just saw an update on CNN. They are still deliberating on wether to let the 2 security guards go or not!!!
Thanks, Ben. I would imagine that this will be the last trip of it’s kind for that district though. Just like in my district…jr high cheerleaders at camp away from home took photos of themselves in various stage of undress (many very provocoative) and then sent them through e-mail, websites and camera phone. Lots of mad parents. No more “away” camps for jr high. Too much liability.
K-
I dunno. I would kind’ve hope not. I’m sure they are friends of Mrs. Twitty and her husband.
On the other hand, we don’t know exactly what was going on with them while they were there, so who knows?
i havent seen any updates today at all? anyone have any sites with new information other than the interview with the mother stating that she believes they all know something?
personally if I were put in her friends situation…I would have never EVER let my friend go in a car with 3 strange guys that I didn’t know. If anything, I would go with her.
Lie detector tests are not allowed in Aruba.
Is DNA testing allowed in Aruba?
Jake, I know they said they don’t have the facilities to do DNA testing but I am shocked that they have decided to do no testing at all on the samples from the car after finding it was not blood.
Okay, I heard that they did find blood in the honda but ti didn’t pertain to this case…Is that right???
ok sorry, Sent my comment before reading Kerins.
Regarding whether the turning on each other is a strategy plotted out by the lawyers, maybe but this always happenes when a group gets in trouble,
as a CSI fan, I like what Grissom always says: “The evidence never lies” and “The body tells the story” or words to that effect.
Grissomisms, LOL
assuming they find the body and it wasn’t dumped in water, big Ifs.
yes…i heard that the blood was not related to this case….. not sure where i read that….
Angela- I agree. NEVER would I have let a friend of mine leave alone with 3 guys from an island!!!
was the blood ketchup, most likely culprit given they were teenagers though Dutchies like mayo on their fries, not our kind of mayo, it’s a sweet mayo for fries…….
If it were semen, saliva, human excrement/urine, etc…I think it should still be identified for DNA because next thing we know the story is going to change and the 3 will claim Natalee was never even in the car!
Sounds like a cover up to me Karin
Angela & Jake:
You know, the more I think about the ‘friends seeing Natalie leave w/ 3 guys in a car’…the more it bugs the crap outta me.
I mean…SAW her leaving w/ them??? C’mon!!! At the VERY least, why wouldn’t a real friend at least TALK w/ Natalee: “So Natalee, you leaving w/ these creeps?” or “So, Natalee..you coming back to to hotel”, and etc.
Very disturbing!!!
I wonder what, if any, access these boys had to a boat and whether or not it has been searched.
Penny, their explanation is that they already know Natalee was in the car so anything they tested would just come back as being from Natalee and that would not matter. But that was the statement from the FBI, not Aruban LE since the FBI is responsible for the testing.
Mayonnaise on french fries….yech.
Wish I could put up a sound file from Pulp Fiction for that.
i don’t get her leaving with these guys either Angela. Where were her friends? What was she thinking? That is so wierd to me based on what has been said about her by friends, that she was not a big party girl etc.
MOmfrommo, they said they asked natalee to come with them, but she declined.
Dear MOM from Mo,
My first concern is that Natalee is okay, and that the guilty should be punished .Starting blaming the whole of Aruba for what is happening, that is called generalizing. That makes me angry . It would be like I blamed you for the acts violence commited in foreign countries by your goverment. Vietnam, Chili, Iraq.
But naturally I cannot . As you where not involved. It also makes me angry that people speculate that the judge might be mr. Paul van der Sloot as we are corrupt, Or concluding from just looking at the picture of Joran to conclude he is a monster, Or publishing fotos of his mother on the internet and describing her as a sekt leader, what did she do wrong, submitting a foto of someone with full name is a crime in the neteherlands as it violates someones privacy.
I am a dutch citizen . Trust me this case is supervised by the the secretary of justice himself in the Netherlands.
We are all frustrated by the lack of information, but that is normal in the Netherlands, they do not distribute information that fast not untill they have all the facts straight. The people now commited to handeling the case , like the proceureur general are very heavy people in the hyrarchy of the justice department.
In my opinion I think Joran is innocent, I don’t think that a kid from 17 years old who has everything for himself , good grades , lives on an nice island , lots of friends / girlfriends and a bright future ahead would risk all this, by commiting a murder. Neighter I think that his father is helping him covering up, as he would be in jeopardy of loosing his job , the netherlands is that small , that you cannot like the U.S.A. move to another state and start all over again. He might be indirectly involved in corvering up the crime done by third parties . My apologies for my previous message not all americans are stupid.
I don’t think she was killed in a brutal way! I think the 3 guys put something in her drink and took her some where and raped her. My gut feeling tells me that she got really upset and said that she was going to go to the authorities. Maybe at this point they got scared and threw her into the water, and she drowned! Or strangled her.
Didn’t Arubagirl say that if they had used a boat, people would have known? Something about having to show ID to go and get the boat, if it is docked at a boat house, and that people would have heard it. Don’t quote me on that, but I think I recall her saying something to that effect.
DT, I read on an earlier post that Joran’s father (judge-to-be), has a yacht.
Can’t confirm, but probably true. Family has lotsa $$$.
One girl leaving with one guy I could maybe understand. But the 3 on 1 thing spelled trouble right from the start.
Karin then why were you shocked that they are not doing testing if it as simple as that ?
MominMO:
That is disturbing. But, remembering some of the things I did when I was younger, it seems easy to believe. I was incautious as hell when I was 18, because I thought I was invincible.
oh and don’t knock Aruba for not having the proper forensics testing etc, most small towns in the US and Canada don’t have the proper facilities for DNA testing, and look at Los Angeles, even with a supposed well trained and well funded crime lab, they made enough errors to put doubt on the forensics collected and presto, OJ gets off….
in the Paul Bernardo case it took 10 months to process his DNA, they had taken his DNA as he was a suspect in the Scarborough rapist cases, meanwhile he continued to serially raped other women and then took it to the next level with his sicko wife…….because in Ontario only one place did the DNA testing at the time, the Forensic Centre in Toronto
in part because of that case I believe that has changed but it’s still not like on TV on CSI, I am sure even the real Vegas CSI doesn’t turn around DNA testing within one day……..
Thats what they said about the Kennedys jankee. Since we are rendering opinions, my opinion it is precisely those types that will do things like this because they arent held accountable.
“I don’t think she was killed in a brutal way! I think the 3 guys put something in her drink and took her some where and raped her. My gut feeling tells me that she got really upset and said that she was going to go to the authorities. Maybe at this point they got scared and threw her into the water, and she drowned! Or strangled her.”
Ummmm…..Jake…if raping, then drowning or strangling is not what you consider ‘brutal’…what exactly IS???
Well Jake lets hope that didn’t happen but only 3 people really know. Again with the friend things….MomfromMo, it make me curious too to know why they just let her go. Even if I did ask her to stay and she declined…She’d have to be pissed at me cause if she was “drunk” or what not, I would carry her butt back to the hotel and tend to her. But thats just me with my girls…and I know they would do the same
Yes Jacob…
i just thought i heard that a small CSI group were at the island or something! I must have misunderstood. Def not knocking Aruba! This could happen anywhere!
To jankees: how could you think joran is innocent? Who would of thought that Natalee being from such a well to do family, NOT a party girl, had a scholorship to a University, would have gotten in a car with 3 guys she hardly knew!!!! But she did, and now she’s gone!!!
Jake — the scenario you laid out makes the most sense to me.
Please note when a statement will be submitted about the case the first the jutice deparment will contact is ANP the Dutch national press buro and then all the rest fox tv , ccn etc. http://www.anp.nl/index.html
They also have an english language option so if any statements supported by facts are going to be made the will be shown there .
regards ,
Jankees
I think what Jake meant was that he didnt bvelieve it was premeditated to kill her.
Penny…I was saying that I would have hoped that the FBI would have made the decision to do DNA testing especially after knowing the brothers story keeps changing. Or are we now to assume that the “coverup” involves both Aruba and the FBI?
Jake, someone who has lived there entire life in a well to do community with little crime is likely to be very trusting, espcially with people from similar background. If she had been drinking she probably would be a lot more trusting.
While I realize that the decision to go with 3 guys from a bar was not a good one, you have to remember what it is like to be 18. From what I understand there was contact with Joran for a couple of days prior to the night she went missing. He is 17, nice looking, from a well-off family whose patriarch is involved in the judicial system in that country and has been for years. Everywhere he went people knew him. He was a local who everyone knew. He was getting ready to graduate from high school just like her. This is a small island where, from what I understand, the people are friendly with tourists. She told people who she was leaving with. She probably, by all accounts thought he would get her back to the hotel just fine. I’m not saying what happened was something I would want my daughter to do or let one of her friends do, but I am just saying that considering the circumstances, she probably did not feel she was in danger. He knew that everyone knew she was leaving with him. She probably felt safety in that also.
Kevin to Jake…it does makes sense. You know maybe they intended on having sex but then she refused, changed her mind, whatever …which pissed them off and drove them to get violent
Karin you said quote *you were shocked* as I am as well.
Angela…I agree. They shoulda and coulda. A real friend would have made her go back to the hotel w/ them.
I’m not BLAMING the friends for the supposed crime, but it’s very, very unnerving! It certainly could have and should have been prevented.
sorry there is an unspoken rule that girlfriends look after each other [even now that we are middleaged, married, divorced and still single] and it’s one thing to go off with one guy, and you make sure your friend is the kind of condition that she can make that decision, if your friend is really wasted, as in can’t even walk or talk, I’m sorry you tell lover boy to take a hike even if she is really mad at you, in my lifetime we’ve done that many times and if she were getting in a car with three strange guys, we would literally jump in the car or drag her out, we’ve done that on a few occasions too…..
the only thing is if all the girls were totally blind drunk, then no one was capable of looking after anyone but again on a high school trip too, usually the guys look after the girls too, usually they are a little protective of their classmates with the natives…….
Jake–
It seems to me he thinks Joran is innocent because so many Americans think he’s guilty.
After all we are a bunch of “stupid…low iq…jankees,” killers of whole “populations (?)” around the globe, including “chili” (wtf?).
Right…and I am.
Should we call Geraldo?
Im suprised these kids have not broke down yet and let it all out…I mean, do they believe that they will get out of this mess? At what point will they give up and take the heat? If they are at all remorsful, they should confess and let this family have some closure!!
MOM from MO – I’m sorry, either way you look at it it’s brutal, what I meant to say was (brutal with blood evidence). I think she drowned (fell in or was pushed). That is what one of the guys meant by “something bad happened”.
Cancon…you raised a good point. I wonder what the guy-to-girl ratio was on this trip?
i wouldn’t blame the friends either. I can’t imagine how they feel knowing that they could have stopped her and didn’t…but it really truely could have been prevented. I mean, yeah you can go there to have a good time but anywhere you go nowadays, you have to be careful. And being that far away from home, I would have my buddy glued to my side. And I can’t talk about at 18 being all crazy and wild rebelious cause I’m 19 and again, would prob party but not stray away from the peeps I know
Sounds rather similar to Chapaquitic!!!!
about the boat issue, come on how hard could it be to steal a boat if you wanted to, all the islands have got to be easy to sneak onto or out of, if you have a criminal bent, esp in the middle of the night
I bet if we looked it up we could find out how many boats have been stolen from Aruba marinas
owch! being raped by three men isnt brutal… that is sick! how would you have liked it?
yes it is brutal!!!
The guys were probably off chasing the native girls. lol You know how it goes. Someone fresh and new is always more interesting at this age or any age.
Consider this possibility..
I pray Natalee walks up to someone soon and is alive and well and asks for help but…
What if Natalee is never found? Would your opinion then be that she was killed and dumped somewhere (which would have been a very quick murder and disposal…sorry) OR do you think she was taken off the island and is still alive but in a brothel, etc?
Any other possibilities are kind of remote due to the “timing”.
Yes, Angela, I agree it could have been prevented and I wish it had been. But I too think that all these kids are probably swimming in a sea of regret as are the parents and the chaperones and I won’t even go there as far as adding to that regret by all of the “if onlys” and “what I would have dones”. I don’t know what I would have done. I would hope I would have stopped her or not gone if I had been in her position, but I do believe she must have felt safety in the fact that they all knew who she was with and he knew they knew. They all knew who he was and where he was from and had seen him for those couple of days. As a teenager your own mortality is not really an issue. It’s too bad it’s that way, but it is. Her friends probably never even considered this could happen. This is absolutely the worst case scenerio of the outcome of her ride to the hotel with them.
I find it an interesting little detail that Joran says he exchanged e-mail addresses with NH. I wonder if he was able to provide the slip of paper that she wrote it down on…
Good point, Jay
I think they were ALL drunk, all 124 (including the chaperones)! I do remember what it was like to be 18, and forget it, you NEVER think that anything bad is going to happen to you or your friends, and you are fearless! As for the 2 security guards that are being held, I think they are still in jail because they sold pot to some of the students!!
Hi Jake ,
With regards to the kennedy remark , I asume you revere to what happend to chappadik , and moxley . They where very powerfull and very rich and had the means to play powerpolitics influencing outcomes . This is impossible in the netherlands we have many political parties , so if something like this happens someone is going to ring a bell . Nor do we have a history of this happening. Do not forget that most of your presidents where from rich families with the exception of Nixon . Our P.M. is a just a college proffesor who has his house in a normal suburban neighborhood. And goes to his work on his bycicle .
Even if he did produce that slip of paper would that prove anything. She could have given him that earlier in the evening or on an earlier outing.
I firmly believe that if LE doesn’t have some amazing evidence linking all 5 of these men together that they aren’t sharing (which I don’t think is the case), then the security guards need to be let go. It really makes me mad that they are still being held. But I promise I will apologize to LE if they surprise us all with some huge revalation involving all 5 (right).
Penny…well, what if they find NH and she happens to have a slip with Joran’s e-mail address?
I am not sure what the e-mail address exchange has to do with anything. These days every kid I know has each others AIM name and e-mail address.
Dear Jake,
Please note that the cia orchistrated a coup detat in 1973 in Chili(hstorical facts , and awknowledged by united states history proffesors ) and in the process 3000 students where killed. But these where different times with different enemies , nor is the isue right now.
I would like to believe that she is alive somewhere, but what are the chances? I think that if she was alive, and these kids knew they were backed into a corner and approaching murder charges…i would think they would just say Ok..here it goes…and this is where she is…kidnapping charges are a lot less serious than murder charges. That is why i dont think the outcome will be as we hope! You can only hold it in for so long!
verdict of michael jackson is coming out!!!
KerinTX, I am of the opinion that she was most likely transported off the island to be a victim of the sex trade. Unfortunately, I see that to be a worse fate than death as she will be the victim of continual violence until the day she dies or, I pray, is found.
I don’t think I would ask for someone’s e-mail or phone number unless I was saying good bye to them…if I would know they were in town, I would ask for her hotel number…
Bill Clinton wasnt from a rich family
I was refering to the “rich little kid” whose family gets him out of his mess he continually steps in. Ted Kennedy (Chapaquitic) is proven.
Sounds very similar in this way.
Kelly…unless they sold her in exchange for an unpaid gambling/drug debt.
I think I getcha, Jake. Thanks for explaining.
My feeling is that she was either pushed off a cliff (there are plenty of them there, aren’t there?) or they dumped her body in the water. Whether she overdosed after they drugged her is mute. It’s still murder, no matter how she died when with them.
I would like to comment that very little is published about the case in the leading newspapers in the netherlands nor is it on national t.v. And yes that stikes very odd to me
Hi all…I just got in from work and am catching up some…. Did the lawyer for the security guard get the information about what Joran is now saying happened (the brother’s dropping him off first, being set up, sitting around the pool getting their “story” straight) from a transcript from court or did his client tell him this is what Joran is saying in his cell? If it is just what Joran is saying in his cell…..could the security guard be making this up to get released sooner?
Just wondering….thanks
Has anybody heard about a slip being turned in as evidense by joran?
I suppose there will be an announcement in about an hour.
Jimmy Carter was from a poor family also. No indoor plumbing while he was growing up.
hey Mom fro mo. I think that you have no better things to do that spent the all say in this forum.
Nothing is ever impossible! I just spoke (on the phone) to a client of mine that lives in Aruba, and he told me that Aruba is FULL of FBI agents and planes, and that they are doing dive searches. He also told me that they are speculating that something big is going on and that people are commenting that is might not be the 3 guys in custody!
very interesting Karin
They need to hire a “closer” these people go in and close a case, they are highly skilled in the art of interrogating, the family has money, hire a closer.
Also, to all of you who think this is not happening elsewhere then Aruba,think again, I heard about a town where they busted four older men for trolling the bars at the end of the night, striking up conversations with drunk young woman, putting drugs in their drinks, and then taking them somwhere to rape them, and film it.So it is even happening in “Smalltown”
We need to school our daughters in the risks involved in drinking nowadays, it is not only drunk driving, daterape we have to be alerted to the risks of drugging the drinks. Overdrinking anywhere is risky business.
English is not my first language,pardonnez-mois
Abe Lincoln wasn’t the wealthiest guy…but that is really going old school!
for the record (not that it matters), it’s Chappaquiddick
hey Tom, Jackson verdict to be read at 4:35 eastern
Tim..each day that goes by with no word I lean more and more towards what you said.
of course not……….they were only the last people seen with her
The jury’s verdict…ummm…we just think he’s one weird dude
This from cnn
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/13/missing.teen/index.html
“On Sunday, law enforcement sources close to the investigation said a substance found in a Honda seized after three of the men were arrested Thursday is not blood, based on a sample analyzed at an FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia.
The search for Holloway was scaled back during the weekend, with teams venturing out only after receiving credible tips and coast guard patrols off shore.”
Also: Anyone know who actually owns the silver Honda?
I just wondering if this girl Natalee were a poor black girl fron the south, Do u people realy care if she was black??????? ????
lol jay
I think Joran has been around law his entire life, is being coached by mom, AND what if the authorities in Aruba don’t want to find a culprit? Maybe they want it “unsolved”
There are NO criminals amongst the well-to-do in the Netherlands- Great story for Geraldo!
redneck Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 3:42 pm
“hey Mom fro mo. I think that you have no better things to do that spent the all say in this forum.”
Whatever time I spend in this forum, obviously intrigues you for some reason I don’t understand. Until Tom or Red complain, your statement is mute. Not to mention, rude.
What the heck did I do to YOU???
yeah, they may have sold her, but again, that is less serious charges than murder..that is all i am saying..either way they are goin to be in serious trouble but i just think that at this point, after blowing eachothers cover and looking at serious time, they would give in and tell them where she could be. I guess its easy for me to say, not being in the situation, i would just think that if they were like you are facing life for murder and they didnt kill her, and sold her off..i would say ok ok We know where she is…again, easy for me to say…..Just hard to accept the fact that these kids know something, and haev not one bit of remorse for this poor family!! Its about time they stop thinking about themselves and do something right! They are already screwed!!! There is no turning back for these kids! None!!
redneck…I would care…unfortunately I don’t think anyone would know about it to care…
yes I do redneck I would care
redneck, I think if the parents were as concerned as Natalees are, the search would be just as strong.
No matter what her race…given the same circumstances…I would still care. But would there be as much media attention? No so sure.
I THINK the car belonged to the older of the brothers in custody. Not really sure, but I think I read that somewhere.
I heard that they stopped at one point and talked to a friend after leaving the bar…does anybody know any details of that?
If in the extremely unlikely situation that they sold her, they probably wouldn’t confess for fear of their lives or their families lives.
If Michael Jackson is guilty I wonder if he’ll have plastic surgery to conceal his identity and avoid being put in jail?
Since there are now three versions of the story, the original, the new brothers story, and the new Joran story, none of the three stories can be believed.
I think that Natalee did go in the car because of Joran, and not because of the brothers. The three boys may have been following their biological drive to spread their seeds, but Natalie would only have been interested in “the right man”. Unfortunately this tells us little.
The fact that Joran had school and finals the next day would tend to be contrary to the idea that the brothers would drop Natlaee and him at the beach at near 2:00AM. How were they supposed to get back to the Holliday Inn and how was Joran supposed to get home?
While Joran’s second story is a little more plausable, I still think that it is more likely that the three used date rate drugs and accidentally overdosed Natalie. Initially they may well have been headed to the beach, but either before or after the rape, Natalie died and it then became a matter of disposing of the body.
interesting Jake but we’ve been mislead before
one possibility raised by a poster at another forum is what if the 3 party boys, for whateever reason, whether or not she was raped, left her alive somewhere, not the hotel, but ditched her and left her for some pervs
someone else suggested what if they dropped her off at the wrong hotel, for all we know now, that would be impossible, everyone in Aruba knows where the Holiday Inn is and these guys met Natalee at the Holiday Inn casino……
just putting it out there
Kelly, I agree. If she were just being held somewhere or sold to cover a drug debt or something, I would think they would have given that information by now. Murder something else entirely. I may be wrong, but I think if the charges could be just kidnapping, they would rather get that over with than hold out for the whole thing. The only way I might see them doing that is if the person they gave her up to is to be feared much more than 20 years in prison.
Who would’ve picked Joran up from the beach if the brothers dropped him off? How far of walk home would that be?
Is there really alot of this selling girls for slavery stuff going on. Where is this most predominately happening?
Neil,
I agree w/ your scenario. Very insightful, and very possible, and probably true.
Remember the Amy bradley case this never recieved many publicity
Tim & Penny,
I am with you.
If anyone outted the trafickers their days would be numbered in hours.
I don’t think they will ever confess to that.
I read, I think it was here, that there was some indication that the foursome stopped at another bar after C & C’s…….
there is a happening bar down the road from the Tamirind which would be on the way to the Holiday Inn and north end of the Islan, I cannot remember its name, it was not C & C’s, we didn’t go to Oranjestad to party at night, our hotel was happening enough…..
One thing people need to question is this: how accurate are these reports from this attorneys client who is supposedly near joran’s cell? Even if everthing that has said so far is accurate their is probably a lot that has been left out (i.e. how Joran supposedly got home that night if he had been dropped off at the beach with no ride). Given the amount of misinformation that has come from the government I feel weary of trusting things that were overheard by someone and who may be filling in things he didn’t hear clearly.
Question: Why would they kill her if they used date rape drugs. She wouldnt remember much would she?
I do agree that if she was sold, she may never be heard from again. If there are surveillance tapes of Joran gambling at the HI (again…HOW was this kid allowed to do so many illegal things at age 17 in bars and gambling areas??) then I would hope his gambling was checked into. Many a person has gotten in way over their head because of gambling debts and what would Joran have to lose by saving his own neck by selling off Natalee in exchange for his “freedom” from the Aruban Mafia? (or whatever the crime group is)
Jackson verdict is back. This means that this case will be buried to the back pages for awhile.
Of course the whole “changing stories” might be a police trick to break one of them by thinking their buddies are trying to set them up.
I imagine the Dutch guys were brought as interrogators and orgaziners.
I bet their 1st order to the Arubans was “Shut the hell up”.
“If we find out any leakers your job is over”
Neil may be onto something with the date rape drug (bad enuf) going bad angle.
Car belonging to older Kalpoe makes much more plausible that (a) he was driving, (b)he called the shots, and (c) he dropped Joran and Natalee off somewhere first. But that somewhere could be anywhere between Arashi and Karpoe’s home.
Where exactly do Joran and two brothers live anyway? All 3 in/around Oranj?
Does anyone know if Joran and the bros. did drugs?
it was said that Joran was a drug dealer….not sure if that was confirmed though
Someone was on here last night that said they were given the date rape drug and they didn’t remember a thing but friends told them they were walking around and talking (although in a very annoying and loud manner)
Just Wondering Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
excellent point.
I just can’t get out of my head that somebody stated, not sure if it was on tv or in the news, that there was a suspicious white van near the caves on the day that they were making such a big deal about searching the caves for a body.
wait a minute
I am confused – I seem to recall that all the boys agree that the brothers picked up Joran to go to the C & C that night
but then why did they confiscate the Van Der Sloot car or was the Grey Honda belonging to the brother’s family…
or did they pick up all the vehicles of both families?
because if the brothers were driving, then I could see they might, either for fun or because they were pissed off at Joran or maybe Joran did something bad and they decided to get out of Dodge, leaving him at the beach
Anyone know enough about extradition laws? Could Jeff Sessions or Richard Shelby here in Alabama bring these goons back to us for a trial? There are enough people here angry over this case that these 3 probably wouldn’t make it to trial at all. Since the whole thing has been so botched in Aruba, this sounds alot more feasable if legal.
The legal age in the netherlands and aruba to drive or own a car is 18 years old
how old is joran , and the kalpoe brothers are known to have car rental service
Honestly, if this girl was as clean as everyone is making it sound, it wouldn’t take much alcohol (especially hard liquor) to get her to black out entirely. My guess, which I hate to even think of, is that they didn’t NEED date rape drugs to rape her. She was probably blacked out. I’m not sure who did what, but my honest sad guess is she blacked out and was raped. This same scenario happened to me before. After I awoke from the black out, I went insane and started screaming and crying. Luckily, I scared the man. Natalee probably didn’t because there were two men as opposed to my one. I bet she woke up and freaked out. They didn’t know what to do, so my guess is, in their state of drunkenness, they killed her and did what the wanted with the remains. The best idea is to make these boys turn on each other by separating them and interrogating them separately at all times. That’s when the truth will come out.
I think they should send those guys up to Alabama and do lie tests and dna etc etc..
Extradition is the removal of a person from another country to be returned to stand trial in the place where they committed a crime. Obviously this is not the case. We do not rule the world yet and do not have extraterritorial jurisdiction on most maters.
“I just wondering if this girl Natalee were a poor black girl fron the south, Do u people realy care if she was black??????? ????”
Kind of a strange question. I guess it could be asked if there are any (or many) “Black people” that care about this. People tend to hang out with people like themselves and relate to situations that are similar to their own. Think about that. It’s not racist it’s human nature.
To Cyber object ,
I guess not dead black people opposed to a blond girl from a good family are not that interesting for the U.S. media
jankees, joran is 17, the brothers are 18 and 21
There was an expert on the news last night that said that extradition is possible if the states can get some type of ruling from the Arubian Government.
So joran would not have a drivers lincence
No extradition to the US is possible in this matter. First reason: Jaron van der S. is a minor. Second reason: the US has the deathpenalty. EU countries do not extradite their inhabitants to countries wich maintain the deathpenalty.
hey guys im back is rob here?
Black/White who cares. It’s a human life! Now with Michael Jackson’s verdict, the NH dissapearance will be second page news!
anything new about this case?
Penny Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
Question: Why would they kill her if they used date rape drugs. She wouldnt remember much would she?
Good point, that is the reason for using it, now maybe if you didn’t give your victim enough? or you can give someone too much and they can become sick or worse, esp whenever you mix drugs and alcohol, I’ve wondered if it was estasy because apparently not only do you lose your inhibitions with E, you overheat, you dehydrate and you have to drink fluids copiously or you could die and many kids have, esp when you add in dancing and then add in the heat of Aruba, I could barely handle the heat in January, I can only imagine the heat in May…….
add in any pre-existing or unknown medical conditions, prescription for disaster….
I disagree, Jankees…. I think that the only reason this case has gotten so much attention is because the family had enough funds to get to the island in such a short period of time and start the search. I think that the American people would care no matter what the race was. At least I would.
whos car was it
To Cyber Object ,
“I guess not dead black people opposed to a blond girl from a good family are not that interesting for the U.S. media.”
You kind of missed my point. Let me try this.
Most of the people in the U.S. are white and they can relate to this story.
The press is supposed to get viewership and sell papers to as many people as possible.
I think this story is tragic no mater what the race, color of the victim, but don’t act like it’s such a big deal that this is such a big story in the U.S.
A U.S. citizen is missing in a foreign country she is young, she is any of our daughters.
She is all of our daughters.
Cancun: Good point with the dehydrating. Very possible, they druged her, raped her, then later she died from the mixture of chems put in her body. They freaked and dumped the body….sad to think of it that way…Lets just pray she alive and well.
Again, there are so many freaking possibilities running around…
While it certainly exists, Ii doubt the sex trade theory in this case. There a plenty of voluntary prostitutes, equally if not more beautiful and much more easy to manage. colombia for one is full of them. There is legal prostitution on Aruba and no need to coherse anybody into it. The car belonged to the Surinamese brothers. I agree that Natalee could have gotten drunk on the cheap and strong drinks at charlie and carlos or whatever stupid name the ginmill pickup bar is called.
Cancon,
It was said that Joran dealt X. Soooooo…….. there ya go.
Hi waitin to know ,
I think you are right , like the amy bradley case did not much publicity neighter
well what do you guys think will happen to them if they are charged with killing her what are the laws over theere
Iquitos:
While I agree with you regarding the sex trade industry–if she was abducted, it wouldn’t be for prostitution, she’s too old to “raise and train” that way. She would have been abducted for “slavery”. Two different factions. But both horrible any way you slice it…
Anyone out there still holding out hope? I am, maybe I am just a cockeyed optimist…hope that she is found alive, that is….
My theories:
1) Alcohol Poisoning
2) Drug Overdose
3) Blacked-Out Rape
All of these would lead to the men not knowing what to do with her, and killing her. But honestly, if she overdosed on drugs, or on alcohol, they would have FESSED UP! I think they raped her and killed her. If they found the body, they would do a rape-kit and realize that, that’s why they are not fessing up. If she ODd, they wouldn’t have gone so far as to murder her.
Ashley, from what I have heard, the max sentence is 20 years, they don’t have death sentence.
I know a dutch girl whpo was raped in aruba , she was sleeping in a house of family friends a Doctor , at night a local fisherman entered the house via the window and put a knife to her troat and raped her , while the rest was sleeping in other rooms
My heart goes out tho the Holloway family and to Natalee.
Does any one think that after the 3 guys allededly raped Natalee, she could have jumped toi her death?
the extasy theroy is a good one. extasy can kill if one dehydrates.
I’m holding faith. ANYTHING is possible. If people believe she’s alive and pray enough, God can do anything
oh ok thanks. well i think she has been sold also maybe not for prostitution but for other things and they may never find her and i do still have hope and faith that they will find her and she will be alive and i hope that is true
I am holding out hope too. I know that at this point the chances are not good, but I do hold out hope. I think it would be so wonderful for Natalee’s mother to get her daughter back alive. I do hope and I keep thinking maybe, just maybe, we will get some news that points in that direction.
If someone would send us all plane tickets to Aruba we might get to the bottom of all of this.
Who CARES if Joran did or didn’t have a driver’s license. He’s not old enough to be gambling in a casino either…but he did!
to me…it ain’t over til the fat lady sings…and I haven’t heard her yet!! There is always hope….always a chance…always miracles…in my eyes.
Here is a link to the US State Dept. site on Human Trafficking….note the date 6/3/05.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/47193.htm
This story received a lot of press in the US because we added the Saudis, Bush’s hand holding buddy, to the worst-of-the-worst list along with VENEZUELA.
Natalee would not stay in Aruba. She could be anywhere in the world now.
I enjoy the xtc theory , big part of extacy in the world is produced in the netherlands
i know i stayed up sat night or it might have been friday till like 2 in the morning watchign the news about this adn about van der sloot saying that he killed her then saying oh wait something bad happened to her. i wish those boys could come over here and then we would find out who really killed her opr did whatever with her they wouldnt be playing games here
Ashley, you working?
My comment is awaiting moderation? Tom? Red? What’d I do??
If it was trafficking, than you are saying that the two brothers and joren are in some way involved with it. They were the last to be w/ NH, they know what happened to her, and, supposedly, now the stories are changing. All in all, we know they said they dropped her off at HI, but we know she didn’t make it, which implicates them in a lie. So, the question is, could these 3 be involved in trafficking?
I just googled in the dutch language , karpoe family are co owners of surinam airways,
Did Natallee have any emotional problems or worries going on in her life?
They are just playing around. They know what happened or is happening. If they didn’t why would there stories be so different! You can’t change your mind on something that is in the past. It was done. Mine as well come out with it.
I’ve heard of many cases in the US of X overdose. Lots of parents devastated by the death of their daughters the first time they tried X, so I think that is a possibility. I think that is a likely way this will play out. But I also think it is very possible that Joran was rebuffed as far as actual sex was concerned or as far as her and all 3 of them and they killed her. But my biggest hope is that somehow she is alive somewhere. That things did not go so far that night that they can’t be rectified.
Natalee’s poor mother has been going thru hell. Since she arrived in Aruba, she has lost 10 lbs. and she was already skinny. I liked her strength when she demanded for her daughter to be given back. Tough woman.
How can those three not tell authorities what they know. This is so cruel.
AmericaninAruba Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
DOes anyone know if it is true that Natalee had removed money from an ATM machien last week on the island? ANyone hear about this?
Rob Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 4:15 pm
i have nt heard that , but things are expensive, so i dont doubt it…
=============================================================
you mean as in LAST WEEK? like, while she is supposed to be missing? i have not hear that. where did you hear that? did you read it? probably rumour.
AmericaninAruba Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 4:19 pm
I just heard a comment on the radio saying when was the date that she pinned cash? they were asking if the date was really the 1st week of june (1st days she was missing) Not the first time I heard that comment
???????????
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Lawyers are filing motions Monday demanding a court free two security guards whose innocence was declared by the mother of a missing Alabama teenager.
“The prosecution is pretending it has information we don’t have,” said one of the lawyers.
The mother of the missing 18-year-old Alabama girl says she’s seen the former guards and thinks “they are being wrongly held.”
Also Monday, the family said Natalee Holloway’s stepfather plans to organize a new search for the teen who disappeared May 30.
In an interview with the “Today Show” on Monday, Beth Holloway Twitty, mother of the missing girl, said that she is frustrated with the apparent lack of progress in determining the fate of her daughter.
“Well, I don’t know if I can say I’m frustrated with the Aruban government,” said Holloway Twitty. “I think I am frustrated as a mother, as any individual would (be), that I still do not have my daughter, that I still do not feel like I am any further along in finding my daughter than I was on May 30 when my flight landed here. So, I think that is my frustration.”
Holloway Twitty said the three suspects “hold the key” to her daughter’s whereabouts.
“Those are the last three men that were with my daughter,” she said. “They know what they did with her, and they know where she is.”
She said Aruban authorities should pressure the young men to reveal what they know, but she would not say what she thinks the boys may have done or whether she thinks her daughter is still alive.
Holloway Twitty said that a nagging thought in the back of her mind said the Aruban government is protecting the three students. As she put it, it’s up to the Aruban authorities to assure her “that will not be an issue.”
Holloway Twitty said she appreciates all that Aruban authorities have done but added that she won’t be satisfied until they give her back her daughter. She said, “I want her and I want her now.”
She also said she thinks two former hotel security guards detained in connection with Holloway’s disappearance are innocent and should be released.
If the Trafficking theory is true…..and story spreads around the world, maybe they will think holding Natalee is too big of a risk to hold onto and let her go.
We can only hope.
to angela no im not sad isnt it?
I think if she was sold, the people or persons who bought her would of let her go by now with all the publicity and FBI looking for her. It’s really sad to think, and I pray everynight for Natalee to come home safe, but I really think that these 3 boys killed her. They may never be able to prove it unless they confess and/or find the body. I do remember that early on in the case, Aruban authorities publicly announced that the 2 security guards were going to be charged with kidnapping and murder. Now that they have the 3 guys (joran and brothers) in custody, nobody talks about charges against them! That’s what I call racist.
I hadn’t heard anything about her withdrawing money.
Where did someone here about this ATM thing? That has to be a rumor, wouldn’t that be all over the place by now?
I believe the trafficking theory is a bunch of B.S….if it were true…then why are we only hearing about searches on the island? Or do we have some S.E.A.L.s or some other Special Ops from the US or Netherlands secretely working in Venezuala????
Ash: I’ve been on here for the last hour…maybe 2….Shhh, supose to be doing cancellations.
surinam airways is a state owned airline. i don’t think there is any private ownership. if there were they would be bankrupt.
Iquitos I did hear something about them not being related to that, that they have a car rental place.
Jacson verdict being read at 4:45 est…I’m still more concerned w/ NH though
A body and/or confession would be needed to make a murder charge stick, neither of which currently exists. As I mentioned, I think she has been kidnapped and likely been sold or forced into prostitution and I feel it is a mistake to approach this case with the presupposition of homicide. The length of time since her disappearance makes it unlikely that she will be found following any leads that may emerge from Aruba (in my opinion). I think the best shot at getting her back is to send undercover agents out to visit as many brothels on nearby islands as possible. It’s still a long shot, but maybe they would get lucky like the naval officer who met Amy Bradley (although its a shame he didn’t/couldn’t do anything).
Also, Amy Bradley was 23 when she was abducted and was later seen working in a brothel. This makes prostitution a very likely fate for Natalee. Whatever the case, the whole situation makes me sick.
I haven’ t heard anything about her withdrawing cash but that is interesting. But…they could have taken her pin # from her purse if she had it written down…I did that once until I was told not to. lol
JayFreddy there officials in other countries contacted according to CNN
well i want to go over there and find her but i know that i cant do anymore than what they are doing but it hurts just to sit here and know that she lives so close to me and i cant help her and i want her to come home for her family. i think whatever happened to her and the person or people that did it to her should never see daylight again but as someone said they only have 20 yrs and i think thats dumb if you kill someone you should be done the same way.
JayFreddy,
I guess if they were secret we wouldn’ know about them.
I think that is pretty much the definition.
well, they said that they had put out word on the neighboring islands….soooo…who knows.
I think that the Arubian government knows what happened…and I think that they have shared that information with Natalee’s family. Maybe this is the reasoning behind them forbidding them to talk. Maybe this is why Natalee’s mother would not state whether she thought her daughter was alive or not…just speculations here.
hey do those boys parents that have a rental car place do they rent boats
haha…yes just wondering…that is true…however, I don’t believe it is likely…but if it is true, I will be more than happy to eat a Crow dinner…especially if NH comes back alive!
ashley, yeah they may have her on another island or out on the brother’s Parents boat…
OR….On the judge’s Yacht…
waitingtoknow – the second they find out she is dead we will know something. There is so much media on that small island and there are a lot of people willing to talk if the past few days have been any indication.
The whole sold into slavery thing seems so unlikely…the boys would have had to be involved in it.
i know them crazy people over ther know where nh is and wont tell and they are going to pay fro this bring them to the us and see what they say then see if there stories are different then
Ben: I doubt the slavery thing too but anythings possible
true, DT…let’s just hope that this doesn’t drag out with no information at all. I don’t know if I could stand it..much less or family.
Gosh, when I was in high school and involved with sports and clubs and all like Joran I worked at a grocery store…I had no clue I could’ve found time to get involved with human trafficking….
well where else whould they have to hide her if shes alive and if shes dead wheres the body.
her not or….ooopsies
I thought that too, Angela! She’s probably bound on the judges yacht!
Let’s face it, if they would have “sold” her to someone, wouldn’t they have found $ when they searched there homes? I haven’t heard anything about cash being found.
I think they might be giving the family false hope .
Did Natallee happpen to have any issues with depression at all that we know of?
where at on the judges yacht? where do you think it is close to aruba or away?
what about the friend that they saw after they left the bar?????? I know I am not crazy and dreamt this up..ha ha
If the do have drug connections, a simple phone call to a friend/”boss” could have helped w/ destroying evidence…drug traffickers would be good at that
plenty of yachts and lear jets to take her off the island.
JayFreddy:
I think I see where you’re heading w/ the ‘depression’ questions. But having some experience with that myself…in the past.
I would tend to believe that if, in fact, Natalee was suffering from depression (bad enough to skip out, that is)…that she wouldn’t be a great candidate to wanna go out & party. She’d probably have elected to stay in her room, and at the very least…at least take her passport.
I respect your question, however…It’s certainly mysterious!
The first ever Traveladvisor entry talked about a possible abduction of an 18 yr old in Aruba…that means that, from the beginning, abduction was the primary possibility, hopefully the authorities would have been monitoring activity on and off the island very early on
DUTCH NEWSPAPER A.D.
Very reliable dutch newspaper no tabloid.
Claims from reliable information source that the girl never was near the hotel on the night of her disapearance, which controadictionary to the statements given by the the 5 suspects
Vermiste Amerikaanse nooit bij hotel in Aruba aangekomen
Uitgegeven: 13 juni 2005 08:34
Laatst gewijzigd: 13 juni 2005 08:36
AMSTERDAM – De 18-jarige Natalee Holloway, die sinds twee weken op Aruba wordt vermist, is in de nacht van haar verdwijning waarschijnlijk niet meer bij haar hotel geweest. Dat is in tegenspraak is met de verklaring van de vijf verdachten in deze zaak, schrijft het Algemeen Dagblad maandag.
De Amerikaanse vierde op het eiland het behalen van haar eindexamen. Na een avondje stappen ging zij met de 17-jarige Nederlander Joran van der S. en twee Surinaamse broers mee naar het strand. Van der S. en Holloway zouden daar seks hebben gehad. Holloway wordt sindsdien vermist.
Drie van de verdachten hebben gezegd het meisje bij haar hotel te hebben afgezet, maar op camerabeelden van het hotel is daarvan niets te zien. Ook medewerkers van het hotel hebben haar die nacht niet gezien.
I have read nothing but good things about NH. I think she was the ideal daughter and friend. I really don’t think she wanted to die. On the contrary. She had so much to live for! A family that truly loves her, and so much ahead of her. She had a scholorship to go to college and was a straight A student. I think she was given drugs and taken away! I think these boys were in it for fun and then something went wrong, and I think their parents know what happened and they are ALL BUYING TIME. I don’t know why, but they are buying time!
can you translate that? and how would they know she wasn’t near the hotel?
not to change the subject…but, I am watching Michael Jackson arrive at the courthouse and I am wondering how much the guy gets paid to hold the umbrella over Michael’s head!! What a job!!
True, but I’ve suffered from depression in the past too, and it does some crazy things to you. Sometimes when you have a high from a great week like that you don’t think it’ll get any better…perhaps she made herself dissappear that morning…perhaps she went off, hid somewhere, and took her own life. I’m sorry, with all the evidence it’s probably not likely with the three guys it’s probably not likely…but you never know…
jankee: Could you please translate that, for those of us American’s w/ low IQ?
Thanx!
yeah, the guys know what happened, she didn’t go off on her own volition
I wonder if they just left her somewhere. Like, after she overdosed, or got sick. No, that wouldn’t work, because then they would have found a body! This is bizarre.
I’m w/ you, Ben. Those perps did it…why else would they be playing ‘musical stories’???
For those of you wishing to hear MJ’s verdict live:
http://media2.yahoo.com/player/sbc/?k=/nws/abclive/abclive
It seems like the investigation is, again, at a halt…I have not heard ANYTHING new today except for the articles including statements from Natalees mother stating that she thinks that the security guys are innocent and that the other three know something. Since Friday, there has not been a lot of new information! You would think since the stories have changed and they are “going after eachother” now, that something would slip…or something. I hate the fact that they are keeping so much! It would be one thing if they were keepin information from “us” the public until statemts and such are proven to be in fact true, but the poor family is being kept in the dark! Does anyone else find that strange?
This Dutch newspaper report repeats the story of evening out, the trip to the beach with the three, the sex with joran and Holiday Inn assertion that the camera did not record her return and nobody on the staff saw her come in. I am not confortable with the HI certainty leaked repeatedly on this point. It is a self-serving claim. Initially, it was the lobby camera that did not record her coming in but the exterior camera was broken. the security guards were arested on the possibility that they intercepted Natalee on the gounds and took her away before she made it to the lobby. remember, the boys say she was drunk. HI did not have good security. I want to know where on the HI compound the boys claim they dropped Natalie. In her alleged state they should have escorted her to the elevator or at least to the lobby.
maybe left her…..and the mysterious white van came and relocated the body????
i am still wondering why that official recanted the “we have a confession, we have a body” story. how could you get that kind of thing wrong???
did joran confess and then his dad and his lawyers came in and somehow made sure the confession was legally recanted?
what about this info:
Aruba Girl sent us a note that says.
It would be stupid to drop J first off at his home and then go back to drop off Natalee if you’re coming from the lighthouse.
Local and international press went to a search site with NH’s family, no news on the results. They don’t want to give up the location of the site in order to avoid a crowd forming there.
RM: Your suspicions mirror my thoughts exactly!
I smell some serious doo-doo here!
I definatly think certain information is being held! This kids father has to have some “pull” over there. You see it over here in the US all the time….”its who you know” Im not sayin the father is going to get him out of this mess, but i def think he is definatly making all this stay “more quiet” than it would be in any other case!
“
waitingtoknow- the problem is we don’t know everything joran said. It may have been he claimed to be dropped off without ever going to the beach.
Joran’s alleged latest version is that they dropped Joran first at Montana Noord and then the two went on from there to drop Natalee.
iquito:
What/where is Montana Noord? Another club?? The night before a final? Not likely.
DT…that post was more for the media and family going to a search site…has anybody heard any outcome of that?
This is the news paper of today , they only show me the short version as i am not a member of this newspaper
AMSTERDAM – De 18-jarige Natalee Holloway, die sinds twee weken op Aruba wordt vermist, is in de nacht van haar verdwijning waarschijnlijk niet meer bij haar hotel geweest. Dat is in tegenspraak is met de verklaring van de vijf verdachten in deze zaak, schrijft het Algemeen Dagblad maandag.
Amsterdam – The 18 year old Natalee Holloway , whom since two weeks is missing in Aruba, on the night of her disapearance has not been near the the hotel . This is contradictionary to the statements of the five? suspects in the case.
Drie arrestanten, onder wie de Nederlander Joran van der S. (17), zoon van een rechter, hadden verklaard Holloway die nacht bij haar hotel te hebben afgezet. Maar op de beelden van beveiligingscamera’s van het hotel is daar niets van te zien. Ook werknemers van het hotel hebben haar die nacht niet zien aankomen.
Three suspects among them the dutch Joran van der S. , son of a judge , stated that they left her at her hotel. Nor on the security cameras neighter employees have seen her arrive
From dutch guy with mixed up I.Q
This is the news paper of today , they only show me the short version as i am not a member of this newspaper
AMSTERDAM – De 18-jarige Natalee Holloway, die sinds twee weken op Aruba wordt vermist, is in de nacht van haar verdwijning waarschijnlijk niet meer bij haar hotel geweest. Dat is in tegenspraak is met de verklaring van de vijf verdachten in deze zaak, schrijft het Algemeen Dagblad maandag.
Amsterdam – The 18 year old Natalee Holloway , whom since two weeks is missing in Aruba, on the night of her disapearance has not been near the the hotel . This is contradictionary to the statements of the five? suspects in the case.
Drie arrestanten, onder wie de Nederlander Joran van der S. (17), zoon van een rechter, hadden verklaard Holloway die nacht bij haar hotel te hebben afgezet. Maar op de beelden van beveiligingscamera’s van het hotel is daar niets van te zien. Ook werknemers van het hotel hebben haar die nacht niet zien aankomen.
Three suspects among them the dutch Joran van der S. , son of a judge , stated that they left her at her hotel. Nor on the security cameras neighter employees have seen her arrive
From dutch guy with mixed up I.Q
there is no way joran was dropped off and THEN a crime was committed against natalie by the brothers.i think the authorities have always known joran was very much involved. why else would they come out with the comment “no one is above the law (i.e. a judge’s son).” in a case with so few public statements, it seems significant.
It is where Joran lives with his parents. personally, it sounds reasonable if the geography is right. Noord means north and Montana mountain.
From dutch guy with mixed up I.Q
ha ha ha that’s cute
LOL @ jankee. Thanx, mixed up!
MOMfromMO Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
iquito:
What/where is Montana Noord? Another club?? The night before a final? Not likely.
i believe it is the neighborhood/area which J lives
thanx spec1 & iquito!
Still….he’s smellin’ like doo-doo to me. Why change a TRUE story?? Unless…it never was.
Daddy better be making some $$ withdrawals…son’s in BIG trouble!
It srikes me strange that the dutch newspaper article states 5 suspects and then continues with the 3 suspects
the new story about Joran is telling…evidently Lejuz’s client Jones never met Joren before and didn’t know him…Joren had to have told him the swimming pool story, that is too much detail to be coincidental. Interesting that these two are together in the jail cell.
Well Joran seems to be playin the system so far, because they have yet to have charged him or anyone. It is goin on over a week now…stories change multiple times, rumored confesssions and yet….ohhhh nothing has happened..these are kids….and the system cant crack them…COME ON NOW!
there’s a lot of BS and lying going on down there in Aruba
they are not in the same cell…but in the same area…but, even that is interesting. However, how big can the Arubian Prison/Jailhouse be?
A lot of incompetency, too…if ya ask ME.
I don’t think we will hear much of anything until the whole situation is wrapped up.
The 2 Dutch men are probably seasoned investigators who were sent to clean the mess up in Aruba, particularly after this weekend.
I am sure they will keep the Holloways informed as much as they can, just not in front of the whole world.
im not sayin this is an easy case to solve, but i dont undestand how they have not found one bit of evidence, nothing on the computers, cell phones, email, nothin in the cars, nothing on their clothes…no tire marks in the sand or near the “lighthouse” …I cant image that these these kids can be this clean when commiting a crime.. I know..there is no proof that they have but i think we all know they are involved in some way!
exactly! who did they call, what time did they call, who did they email, when were the emails sent
I agree with you Kelly, what are those interrogators doing with this guys ?
Playing pattie cake?
Come on, get them to spill the beans, deprive them of sleep and food.
michael jackson
count 1—- not guilty of conspiracy
count 2—-not guilty of lewd act upon a minor child
count 3—-not guilty of lewd act upon a minor child
count 4—-not guilty of lewd act upon a minor child
count 5—not guilty of lewd act upon a minor child
count 6— not guilty of attempting to commit a lewd act upon a minor child
count 7— not guilty of administering an agent in attemp to commit act
count 8—not guilty of providing alcohol beverages to a minor
count 9—not guilty of administering an agent….alcohol to minor
count 10—not guilty of administering an agent….alcohol to minor
who cares about Michael Jackson?
MICHAEL JACKSON VERDICT:
NOT GUILTY ON ALL 10 COUNTS
Has everyone seen this website where the guy predicted this on May 31(http://www.briansprediction.com) and said she was raped and kidnapped and then would be killed later. Have they seached all the properties of these 3 crazy people?
count 11 — Guilty of Just Being One Weird Dude… not a punishable offense….
chloe2:
Guess the ‘travesty of injustice’ speaks again…As in the case w/ Natalee.
this whole situation in Aruba makes me sick
LOL @ Jay
Could the two brothers have sent her to their country undetected? There needs to be more searches for her.
Especially if this was not premeditated…there would have been panic..and we all know when someone panics..they are not thinking straight and are not goin to make sure everything “is done” spotless! I just dont buy it…three teens…get themselves into a bad situation…they panic..and do something bad..and there is not one thing that links all this to them. I would really like to know if cell phone records were checked! I am sure this investigators know what they are doing…But THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING! And for some reason is not telling.
Jackson not guilty
Kelly, I’m with you. I think they know something but def not telling. With all the technology that we have today, somethings known. Ok well I’ve said enough today. I’m leaving so TTYL>
this whole thing is driving me crazy. Those cops should have gotten to the bottom of this by now!!!
(I’m a different kelly)
Look, the Aruban government can hold these kids for weeks without bringing in charges. They have no incentive to charge the kids with anything. It’s not like the U.S. legal system where you have to let them go within 48 hours. Why spill the beans on the case when you don’t have to?
If the judge had any real influence, his son wouldn’t be in jail right now. Plus, judges in European legal systems (which Aruba is based on) are like our judges. Often, they’re more like bureaucrats. In fact, when a European law student finishes school, she or he often chooses to be a solicitor or a judge and then does years of training.
We’re just incredibly impatient Americans who forget that real life criminal cases take longer than a 1/2 hour to solve. We’ve overdosed on TV crime shows!
When all is said and done, Valentijn will also be involved.
curious…I just went to that site…WOW…that makes me ill…so much of that stuff has happened.
You have asked and we deliver.
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
Look to the right hand side, and click the link for the new forums to discuss to your hearts content the Natalee Holloway disappearance.
To post, you will need to log in.
(((arubagirl)))
How are you feeling today??? Able to eat??
HF…is this purely speculation?
All im saying is that the family should know more at this point. I just finished watchin the mothers video on the today show and she even stated..they are not giving her enough information…Everyone knows these boys know where she is or what happened to her! Its just frustrating, and i cant even begin to imagine how hard it is for them! I dont know what i would do.. IF there was any indication of these boys being innocent..it was all squashed when their stories changed…That is that…If you are innocent then why all the change in stories…ya know…They know something..No we dont know who did what, or how it happend, or if it was an accident, and they panicked….either way..they know…..and that is torture when the motherwent to c them in jail and had to look those kids in the eye and know they know where there daughter is but refuse to help. SHe said they didnt even show one bit of sypathy or anything.
To kelly with a small k
Well spoken , I have every confidence that they will crack the case soon If they have not cracked it already. I think they need time to formulate the case . There is thing in Dutch law , with states if you make little mistake in the official accusation papers. Then you can walk free . For example if they put the date of trhe crime comited to 30th june and not 30th of may then there is in error the case will be lost for the prosecuters. I think with all the mediafocus on them , they really want to get the facts straight trust me some big guys from the Hague , the Neeherlands Justice deparmtment are on top of this , otherwise they would not sent some seasoned investigators to the island to revise everything
Educated speculation- brothers are brothers- particularly these two whose lifestyles are almost duplicated (per their tickle sites) and who live in such a relatively small environment. Impossible, via common sense, for him not to be involved- if not on the front end then on the back end.
Ask this: Where was he on the night in question ? What alibi does he have from the parents ? Do the parents (also implicated by now due to their natural relationship to the boys) know, ABSOLUTLY, where the boys were, what time they came home etc…
Speaking of the parents- Do you think that they were oblivious to their son’s lifestyle ? When it comes out that the car is Dutchboys, and I think it will, what in the world is a parent doing giving a minor a car, letting him/them stay up until the wee hours of the morning, etc… If the parents claim they were not aware of the lifestyles, they should be held accountable for being the most ignorant people on earth. These two were completly out of control. Judgedaddy and teachermommy are to blame for their mindset and their actions.
My $0.02 The Michael Jackson trial just ended. Of course, everyone knows that I am being generous there, because it would be more accurate to call it the Michael Jackson media circus. Our trials, particularly the high profile ones now tend to degenerate into fiascos.
We all recognize this is true and we all decrie it.
Aruba does things differently. They do not allow information to be released and we get upset by that. Why? Do we think our trials are better? What evidence do we have for that?
Let’s give the Arubans a chance to do things their way. If, in time they blow it, then we can criticize.
HF – i’ve wondered myself re J’s brother – it nags me that the same police officials reportedly “arrested” a 4th/6th suspect – but nothing further has been said…a possibility
i am by no means certain, but the general consensus, after much back & forth btwn this board & others is the car belongs to deepak, the eldest kelpoe
To be as cold as these guys are, I do really believe they planned her disappearance, If not there would be evidence. I believe there are others involved and she was targeted from the beginning. I hope they are using psychics to see if they can locate her. There are a lot of psychics the FBI uses to find victims.
Amen Rogers!
Kelly with a big K,
I agree with you about how hard it is to see the mother feel so lost and uninformed. One thing that we take for granted with the U.S. legal system is how supportive it is of victims and their families. Relatively speaking, that’s a new phenomenon (oh … my spelling!) even for American law. In lots of places, victims and their families are virtually ignored by the police.
I’m not saying that is what’s happening in Aruba. The mother may just feel like she doesn’t have all of the information.
I like Jankees point. That sounds right on and would explain the caution, if true.
the priority is to develop a strong case based on evidence against the perpetrtors of whatever happened to Natalee. Her mother cannot expect real time information. In the first place it is secret. That is how the system works. She will get her closure when the case is sucessfuly prosecuted. She (and we) have to be patient.
curious:
i believe a TA poster sent an e-mail to the psychic for whom Medium is based upon last night
curious…they need to talk to that Brian guy….still can’t get that out of my mind…WOW.
any news new here?
You must not be a mother iguitos. She has been patient, I would not be. I would demand they get tough on those boys, if not, I would, even if it meant jail time for me. Who would care at that point!!
COuld be however original reports indicate that dutchboy was seen “driving” away from C&C’s on the night in question.
Additionally, all original reports that I read quoting classmates of N.H. indicated that Kalpoe boys were in the back with N.H. in the front.
Regardless of above, the 3 are, and have been, lying from the start. Now they apparantly are really getting their collective stories screwed up. Don’t think that Judgedaddy and teachermommy are innocent in this either. They knew something was up the fiorst time the boys were questioned.
On an island that small with almost “zero crime” and something happens of this magnitude, normal parents would be suspicious of their own regardless of good grades etc… PArticularly if your kid has a history of being out of control as Big Dutchboy apparantly does.
Result- parents are in it with them for not reconciling this thing up front. Judgedaddy has to have something in the head other than rocks to get on the path that he seems to be on. Can’t be that educated and be a moron even where the kids are concerned.
THis will be one of those things when it is all over where the locals look around and say- It does not surprise us- that Dutchboy has been a problem all of his life !!!
WAIT AND SEE !!!
From Geraldo’s report last night…the locals are already saying that, HF.
some jackass over at the new forum site said that there is a confession
We will be shutting the comments on this post down shortly.
Please use our new discussion forum to talk about the Natalee Disappearance.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1134
i like this format better
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.
.
Where are the media pictures of:
the (arrested) suspects’ homes?
the boys’ schools (ISA)
Natalees home and school (MBHS)
the boys’ parents
Natalees biological father (D. Holloway)
.
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.
I can not understand how withholding information from the Hollaways is necessary to build a strong case…here in the US strong cases are “built” everyday without tormenting the familes.
It like the security guards,,,make it look like we are doing something when in fact we have no information…the constant “promises” that the case is moving forward yet we cannot to you how…is very disconcerning….
It has been two weeks of building a case…much of that against innocent people…its not “building a case”…it bungling the case.
agreed..this format is better
i m staying here…
I am found
in that forum site. it was up like 2 seconds and some gurl started spreading rumors like you would nt believe, and you cant respond very quickly… i did nt like it
holy crap you should see some of these jackson jurors.. now that explains everything….
Evening all: Have any of you clicked back to RiehlWorldView.com???
yeah, its amazing how you go to a different site and all of a sudden, here comes the confessions an this and that..i am switchin back and forth waitin to hear more on this “source” this is coming from
yeah i have and other than the post this afternoon, nothing else has been posted..why did you find something?
i find out that gurl is full of crap… that s why i came back
yeah, now there is three different forums goin on! I have no idea what is going on. When it was only this one it was working fine…
We are closing this post. Please try the new forum. We will also be opening a comment page in the present style.
However, I will have a disclaimer on the present style post that I will not be monitoring it and you will have to beware of the trolls. If I delete or ban someone there is no discussion.
On a brighter note, I am in a much better mood!