RSSAruba – Natalee Comment Post 10
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Comments
390 Responses to “Aruba – Natalee Comment Post 10”
Previous Comments can be found here:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1125
His father would probably coach him thinking his son was innocent, obviously there are certain behaviors that can make an innocent person look guilty.
i think they will say it was an “accident” and joran will get out of it
— & GPTMB,
Where is the “wall of hope” located? I know its in Mountain Brook, but is it at school or a person’s home? Have either of you signed it?
* * * STRONGLY RECOMMENDED SEARCH AREA !!! * * *
IF IT HAS _NOT_ BEEN SEARCHED..
STRONGLY RECOMMEND SEARCHING LAGOON/WETLAND AREA
JUST INLAND OF HADICURARI! LAGOON/WETLAND AREA IS ON
THE ROAD TO/FROM ARASHI BEACH [LIGHTHOUSE]. IF “SOMETHING
BAD HAPPENED” AT ARASHI BEACH — YOUNG MEN MAY HAVE DUMPED
BODY AT LAGOON/WETLAND AREA. (VERSUS BUBALI PLAS BECAUSE
TOO MANY HOTELS/PEOPLE TO PASS BY BEFORE GETTING TO BUBALI
PLAS — NOT SO WITH LAGOON/WETLAND AREA — POSSIBILY MORE OF
A DESOLATE AREA WHERE YOUNG MEN COULD “QUITELY” DUMP THE
BODY); (IF THEY ACTUALLY WENT OUT TO ARASHI BEACH!).
* * * STRONGLY RECOMMENDED SEARCH AREA !!! * * *
- – - – - – -
REFERENCE:
QUESTIONS:
(5a) Is there a lagoon or wetland INLAND of Hadicurari?
(5B) Has it been searched? Along shores? With boats?
[ Apparently the lagoon or wetland is on the road to/from ARASHI BEACH.. ]
arubagirl Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Hadicurari, I think there’s a small area there that fills up when it rains.
I don’t think it’s been filled, don’t if it’s been search.
Bigger Wetlands are at Bubali Plas.
- – - – - – -
Jay – he IS a lawyer – correct me if i’m wrong. In line for a judgeship!
Psychic. Reports of the first search were in local newspapers…The first 3 FBI agents arrived june1st, together with Natalee’s mother. I’m pretty sure not impounding the car right away was part of the strategy…..These people (Iguess the car too) were on 24/7 watch….
If it was an accident and they did something stupid in a panic, I would think they would say something or confess certainly not hold out this long.
There also may be more witnesses that need to come forward from the CnC bar. Maybe somebody saw somebody sitting close to Natalee, and her drink.
It’s at the church, and no I havent yet
I wish that it was an accident, but if it was; why are these boys trying so hard to cover-up? None of this adds up.
He’s supposedly a Judge-in-Training, or substitute judge, but definitely a lawyer.
I read early on (not that all news stories are true as we’ve painfully learned) that in the first days of the investigation the 3 boys were questioned, but all 3 were represented by JVS’s Dad.
joran’s father is a judge. they had to bring a judge over from curacao to preside in this case, presumably to ensure no bias. I am sure Jorn’s father is in a very difficult position.
chopperboyfrom calif , You go!
me either – i need to jump on the good foot and do that!
It’s located at Mountain Brook Community Church on Higway 280 if you want to go sign it!
____
I am extremely sorry for your loss. I know you must be devastated. I lived in Birmingham for 16 years and it is that connection that has brought me here.
I pray for Natalee’s return and for those, like you, who are hurt so much by what has happened. Natalee’s case will be solved and justice will be done. And this ordeal will, in all likelihood make you stronger and better person.
During the process however, you cannot throw due process out the window. You just need to trust that good people will get to the bottom of this case. God Bless you.
jjorans father should be well positioned in an unemplyment line.
Fathers Mission.
1. save son from going to prison.
2. point the finger to someone else.
3. Get Prime Minister and Tourism back in line.
4. Produce the body for conclusion and closure.
5. Win win solution.
Any 17-year old who can throw another boy through a plate-glass window, and who seemed obsessed with images and music establishing his masculinity – could certainly do severe bodily harm to a woman who rejected him in front of his two friends. Add alcohol to the mix and it seems almost likely this is what happened…
I put Masons posts in a form that I have to review them for you to see them.
Sorry about the girl reference, set the alarm to check on everyone, was sleeping.
T
Is there a designated spot to send flowers or cards??
Iquitos – I’m sure he is. That, I believe, is a huge underestatement.
I don’t think they were ever in arashi…….the arashi beach parking lot /light house are popular make out spots….
Thanks Whodeenie… I’m not saying to throw out due process, I just wish people would stop defending these kids when I KNOW they are lying…
You friends of Natalee’s should know that when you are not online, there are people here that defend her, her friends and the chaparones…
We do that because it is fair.
It was from a news article but I’m not sure which one. It was posted on another board on June 3rd. It says:
Authorities said they have questioned and released the three Dutch nationals. They said they dropped Holloway off early Monday at the Holiday Inn where she had been staying. The father of one of the men is a local attorney on the island and is representing all three of them. The three men are now considered persons of interest in the case but have not been charged with any crime.
Like I said though, we don’t believe everything we see on the news now.
I’d send them to Mountain Brook Community Church – they’ll know who they are for – they can get them to the Twitty’s
10 minutes 30 posts ., a new record
Fathers mission – to save his son by any means necessary.
Joran’s family is from Holland, not Aruba – if they can get their son off the hook, they can leave the country and live/work in any European country…
And he’s what, 6’2″? And she’s 5″4″
is natalee an only child?
It said 6’5″ on his website.
Dragonfly – right on, the same press reported a confession and presumably Joran leading them to the body…
No she has a brother
Compananzi you left off #6. Send Joran to Tampa and out of the spotlight
I believe he’s 6 ‘ 5″
He is actually 6 feet 5 inches…
For whatever it’s worth, I’ve been following the news as best I can and would like Natalee’s friends and family to know that both they and Natalee are in my prayers. Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be much information out there right now–or at least information that isn’t rumor or being reported then retracted. It’s got to be terribly frustrating. Do know that countless people from many different countries are thinking about you and Natalee and have the best wishes in our hearts.
Natalee has a younger brother who i believe is going into 8th grade this coming school year.
Well if that is true Dragon, that explains a lot
oh you guys, every inch is abig deal to you….
GPTMB or —,
We would like to but neither Tom or I (Red) live near Mountain Brook. Actually we were going to ask if you would maybe do it for us. I will email later about it.
The last place Joran would want to come is the US…if he gets off he better head back to Europe…
thanks GPTMB, I’d really like to help. I know there is nothing that I could do to help, but I want to show my support. I pray for Natalee’s safe return and I hope that all of the mess will soon be cleared up.
News is probably just around the corner. It’s a small island but I saw on one program (I think it was comments made by Natalee’s dad David Halloway) that the brush is thick so it is not possible to search every square inch like you might think.
She has a step brother as well I’ve heard.
okay
Thanks Rogers… I’ve looked over some of the posts from when i was gone… it means a lot that people are willing to stick up for Nat, especially since many of you were not privalidged enough to know her personally. When she gets home, I’ll be sure to let her know how some truely wonderful people were kind enough to say some really nice things that helped us get through the time when she is gone. I can never say thank you enough!
Thanks Tom….he started the whole thing off by going out in left field bashing the USA….blaming Nat’s parents…blah….blah….blah. He left for a while and everything was back to just good discussion and then when he came back you observed. Thanks again
— and I were plannin on headed out there tomorrow to sign, after I get off work
Soinso, my thoughts exactly. If he was representing them when they were just “persons of interest” you can bet he coached them before they even answered question #1. I’m sure the point came when he had to bow out and let someone else represent them, but I can see in the early days him being in the room for their questioning.
Aruba is part of the Realm of the Netherlands. Arubans carry Dutch passports. Joran has lived on the island since he was 3. It appears that the Courts are controlled by the Hague. Lets not go blame the father for his son’s transgressions (if proven). The kid must have been a fish out of water his whole life. They might have arrested the three because they had arrested the two black guys already and people were commenting on that. We really don’t know much for a fact about how the case is developing.
I saw where ppl emailed Mountain Brook and they were put up on the wall. Is there a specific email address?
Friend of
Vertical or Horizontal?
Yeah, that sounds great! Tom has my E-mail, so he can e-mail me at any time and I’ll gove him my address if he wants to send stuff. I’ll be happy to take it by the church for you. Thank you so much! That’s so nice of you! I know it will mean a lot to her fam. to see that people are willinjg to send their love from all over.
rbenton: I’m not aware of that; I haven’t really looked into; havent really needed to haha; my old house is a block from the church…
Dragon….not true….the father did NOT represent any of the three. He CANNOT by law do so. He is a Jurist…not a practicing lawyer….
tom
ha ha
TOM –
Please check your email – just sent you something I think you might be interested in reading…
Thanks,
Rick
Signing off…I hope good news come for Natalee…I am glad she is geting so much publicity, and sad for Amy Bradley or Claudia Kirschhoch who did not. I am also sad it has happened in Aruba…and that potentially it was someone who for all intent and purposes was raised in Aruba. This sux man.
We’ll sign for you if you want… just write what you want to say and we’ll write it up there.
Are ya’ll watching Fox News?
There’s a girl who went to school with Joran who says that “None of us in the community are surprised by this. There were warning signs all over the place.”
could i email it to you…maybe you could post it for me?? Natalee is heavy on my mind and I’m so concerned with her safe return.
Even if the guys have been drilled on what to say, eventually they will be presented and questioned on evidence and they’ll have to explain things.
— Absolutely I will do whatever you like
Rick checking now
Yeah Bama…I saw that
– please write that she is dearly loved and justice will be done
thanx
Native do you know who repped them initially? Just curious.
Hey, Tom… would you like us to sign on behalf of all the kind posters on Sacredmonkey.com? GPT came up with it, but he’s going to bed now so he wanted me to ask…
Native, I thought that was probably the case. I think what we were wondering is if he was with them in the beginning when they were questioned but before they were really thought as suspects. Being the father of the minor I guess I just assumed he was and then especially after reading that news article (which I agree probably overstated it as “representing” all 3).
rbenton, maybe you can post here so that — and GPTMB will not have to give anyone their email addresses.
They really can’t be providing that to people, as I’m sure you would understand.
Yes, I was aware
I had read on the International School website that Joran had taken the Dutch exam for the Netherlands University admission. Maybe he didn’t pass it. International School probably instructs in English. My impression is that Dutch is not much spoken on Aruba, more English and Papiamento. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeah, I would rather not have to post my e-mail, as i’ll probably be harassed by crazy people at some point…
Also, for what it’s worth, — and GTPMB, keep in mind that it isn’t a disservice to Natalee if you try to enjoy yourselves sometimes. See some movies and hang out with your friends. Get support from those people who alse knew Natalee, and also try to take each others’ mind off the sadness for a little while. I’m no expert, but it’s an awful situation and there’s good reason to be sad, frustrated, angry, etc. I just don’t want anybody to be feeling that way all the time.
do you have AIM? I can post my s/n and block everyone not on my list….?
They did not have representation. They volunteered to an interrogation. I assume, the father did have to do with the “voluntary” part.
I sincerely hope that they are in cells receiving the same treatment any other suspect in Aruba would get. No special treatment, food, etc. based on family ties. And I hope the jail is no “posh” environment. If it is made tough enough for them, and they are losing sleep and not eating mom’s cooking, sooner or later they will break down. After all…they are just basically kids.
i wonder if i could send the email elsewhere….didn’t want to post it here…..i planned on writing something long…sincere- i want to think about it.
Tom/Red — Did one of you post that you’ve set up a PayPal or other account that we can contribute to? I looked for the link and didn’t find it. I’d love to contribute to the additional resources you’ve had to add for all of our traffic. Thanks.
fox-
just on geraldo says family of NH told to not comment any further.
—, maybe AIM isn’t such a good idea. We can post our sentiments right here for you to scribble onto the Wall of Hope.
I want to say that I am so impressed by most everybody’s dedication to NH and family, and the desire to get to the bottom of this. I even agree with some of the dogmatic statements made by the “Deputy” insofar as how we Americans present ourselves to the outside world.
But dress, drinking a fe2w, and having a good time doesn’t, under any circumstance, invite sexual predatorism.
Aruba has a lot at stake here, and it’s in its best interest to solve it expediently. But being overwhelmed with American involvement and the god-forsaken media, Aruba is also cautious of not losing its autonomy.
Personally, I believe more is known than is being expressed, for a multitude of reasons. Yet if there is no solution in this case, and soon, Aruba will suffer by now finding itself on the tourist “radar screen.” And that will be unfortunate, since anyone who has traveled the Cariibean knows that Caracau, Venezuela, and other islands have far more dubious reputaions for white slave-trade than Aruba.
That is the worst scenario – that NH has been sold into slavery. I have a 7 year-old daughter, and I would rather know she was dead than have to live through what Amy’s parents have suffered.
Thanks Matt… yeah GPT and some of my friends catually came by and broke into my house to come drag me out of my room! My friends are really amazing… We went and saw Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants… it was a nice break. GPT hated it, but he’s a guy, so what do you expect… haha
That’s what I wondered. If maybe he went in with the 3 when they were “volunteering” information and “helping” with the investigation by pointing out these security guards that we all think had nothing to do with it.
inquitos, Dutch is THE official lenguage…..Joran is Dutch….so are parents….
Dutch is his first lenguage…
How about if some of you want to send your emails to Tom and then he can forward them to — since he has her email addy?
Native Lingo: Do you think he passed the exams?
Hey GPTMB and —–, is the Vulcan still showing his steel behind?
I heard that he got torn down a few years ago?
Glad to hear, —! I’m going to get some sleep, but remember that Natalee and all the people who knew and loved her are in many hearts and prayers each day.
BamaBabe, that is a good idea.
A person should NEVER post their email or their AIM or IM address here. Gosh, you never know, I just might be Geraldo myself (grin) and trying to put your comments on the nightly news.
Yes that would be good, Bama. I know my HS students want to send their thoughts nad prayers as a collective group.
You’re probably right Dallas… hmmmm. I don’t know what to do. I wouldn’t mind if Tom e-mailed rbenton with my e-mail. From what he has said so far, he seems like a genuinely kind individual… I know the family will look at this wall and read all of it, so I know that he wants to be able to think about what to say. Plus, some things you don’t want to share to everyone who could read this. I know what I write I only want to stay with those of us who are there to read the wall because I know that these people won’t criticize or be cruel, but will be supportive and care just as much as I do.
I know you’re right about the other islands having higher crime rates, including kidnapping, but just look how close Aruba is to Curacao and Venezuala! You can actually SEE Venezuala on a clear day from Aruba!
inquitos….by all means….
does anyone else think its kinda weird that joran was hanging out in the holiday inn for a couple of days?
yes i have AIM…i could just give you my s/n if you like.
I see. Thanks for clarifying.
- – -, whether you write for us individually or as a group I would just want her family and her also to know that I pray for her every night. I actually prayed the last couple of nights that if these guys did something terrible to her, if there is anyway he can change the course of things or the outcome that he please do so. I want her home alive and safe. Thanks.
Night Matt! Sweet dreams!
Tom, I hope you’re checking on the thing that Rick has mentioned several times.
tom
me too
really now-nite
Dallas, you can’t be Geraldo because *I* am Geraldo (at least his moustache)
I’m a girl…your age… Just graduated from high school….I feel so connected and this story continues to draw my attention. Being a peer- I can’t even imagine what has happened. I know what a 18 year old thinks but, something is terribly wrong.
Dallas – what did I mention several times?
Whodeenie… yup! Vulcan is back (and so is his backside!) Homewood just couldnt bare living without his bare behind!
Dallas, just curious, are you a mom?
That was 4 you Native btw. Jumping off now – glad to be able to chat, vent, get some answers, etc – nice to know all forums aren’t full of a**holes
eewww Psychic…that moustache is creepy (and I am a moustache lover)
I know I’m tired. Going to bed. I was wondering what Rick mentioned too. Glad he was in the dark too. Good night all.
Bamababe – that’s what scares the hell out of us – the close proximity of these other islands and Ven. NH could have been in Ven 25 minutes after disappearing from CnC’s. And that’s our greatest fear.
I have read that some FBI were investigating other islands, you hear that?
Night soinso…
Hey—, I’m just reading all this like crazy. Glad to have you back on and you provide a consoling connection for me (as others I’m sure) to Natalee. I want you to know that in Tuscaloosa weve been worried and heartsick for her since the very first report that she missed the plane. I really pray for her and for all of you.
Mike
Hey, it’s better than John Bolton’s moustache!
No I hadn’t heard that. In fact, I kept wondering why they weren’t. Surely they are. Escpecially since that’s where a lot of people think that Amy Bradley is.
i was wondering the same thing roger…
Bye Rogers
dragonfly… that is very kind, and know that I will write it up there for you… I copied and pasted it into a document that I’ll take up there when I go. If anyone else wants to post something for me to write, I’d be happy to do it. I’ll E-mail Tom to let him know that I would like rbenton to have my e-mail, or I can get hers either way.
Hey, and people way up here in Wisconsin are concerned for Natalee!
Native- anything new going on there?
Rick, I think that it was friend-of-Mickey-John that asked Tom to look at something that was posted several days ago.
—, no need to give out your IM, your AIM, or your email. What would be private about a sentence or two that someone wants posted up on a public Wall of Hope?
Tom and Red are moderators with real names, so it’s ok from them.
Thanks so very much, – - -. You are in my prayers too. Please don’t stop coming here just because some people have to show their ass or always be right or holier-than-thou. I have to go to bed. I’ll be back tomorrow after I drive my babies to summer camp! Good night all!
Night Dragonfly…
Thanks Mike! Would you like me to write that for you? Or were you just letting me know? Either way, thank you! It means so much when I hear about people from different places who care about Natalee. I never imagined that the press would pick up her story like they have. I’m sure glad they did though… I think all the prayer and support from so many caring people will help her to get home safely.
chopperboy….Not impossible, but our coasts are heavily guarded…..coast guards….radars…..difficult
Babababe, I did read that, and other’s yesterday were talking about it, along with Amy’s predicament. I hope this case gets solved quickly, and that it opens a Pandora’s box on all “cold case files” surrounding other missing girls in the region.
Thank you for being so involved. Your true heart is being exposed!
–, Thanks; I’ll be leaving for college in the fall and I just know the excitment thaht Natalee was experiencing. I’m going to sit down and write now. This is so important to me, b/c I feel like I can see things from her point of view. People have constantly bashed Natalee because of her drinking and partying and I understand every bit of what went on. I just want Natalee to be found…SAFE
That was for you, but sure that would be very nice. Thanks!
— , you did say that you graduated this year too, correct?
Night Dragonfly… thanks again!
Here is info on the International School. The actual website is shut down!
iThe educational materials, resources, and teaching practices reflect current best practices recommended for successful academic programs. Core courses include English, math, Social Studies, Science, Spanish and Dutch. English is the language of instruction. Special curricular programs include art, computer/technology, distance learning, physical education, ESL, and a learning disabilities program. Extra curricular programs include computers, community service, drama, excursions/expeditions, newspaper, yearbook, Model UN, and Odyssey of the Mind. A fundamental expectation is that all students will be involved in a balanced range of activities reflecting creativity, action, and service. The concept of service is extensively encouraged at all grade levels. School sports include basketball, golf, soccer, softball, tennis, track and field, and volleyball.
Faculty: As of September 2004, there are 39 teachers on staff with varied educational experience. Several teachers have specialized training, and the director is a U.S. citizen who is certified and experienced in U.S. and international school education.
Enrollment: As of the 2004-2005 school year, the enrollment is 120 students from the U.S., UK, Dutch Antilles, Venezuela, and other countries.
poornatalee: NOTHING…so frustrating!!!!
Yeah, the trip was for graduating seniors.
Amy’s brother is on Fox with Geraldo
“All three of those boys know what happened to her,” Holloway Twitty said
Holloway Twitty, 44, declined to say what she thought the boys had done or whether she thought her daughter was still alive. She also said she thought that two former hotel security guards detained in connection with Holloway’s disappearance were innocent and should be released.
OK…so you will be leaving for college soon. My son graduated this year too.
Tom, could my info possibly be sent to her…I’m not trying to harrass. There’s no harm. If she doesn’t feel comfotable there’s no contact.
Native, with ALL due respect, anything’s possible, especially if you have access to an ocean-going vessel.
But like I said, we, the biker community, believe Sloot did her in, and we want to see him hang. His friends were nothing more than puppets, but deserve to be prosecuted as accomplices.
As for me, please post this when you guys go:
To Natalee and her family: you are in my prayers each day. Standing on the very Word of God, Natalee is in the watchful care of God, and I pray courage and strength upon you all. – A Friend from Dallas
I don’t believe it was a slave trade thing. That would not be someone hanging around with her and her friends at all. I think that would be a ‘middle of the night’ slip into your hotel room, gun in your ribs “come with me and i wont hurt you….and gone off the island by the time the sun comes up. No, I think these three punks especially Van Der Douche didn’t get want they wanted from Nat, couldn’t take the rejection from this ‘inferior girl’ on his island where he is important and the king of all the ladies men, and then he did what he wanted to her and that was that. Daddy’s a big shot, I’m smarter than everyone and no one can stop me. I would like to see him/them turned loose in a small room with the 2 gaurds that they (including daddy) tried to hang this on.
NativeLingo,
Do interogators offer deals for suspects that agree to testifying against fellow suspects like they do here in the States?
These guys are not facing life imprisonment or death–not a lot of incentive for one of them to rat out the others at the present it seems.
The only reason they are still holding the 2 guards is to keep up pretense of “other suspects”. Otherwise there would be no way to deflect (in their minds) possibility of innosense of 3amigos>
He likly passed his exams with ease.
What I have heard indicate a budding socio-path.
the Halmarks are all there -
Outwardly charming but with a cold side you notice after you get to know them. Total lack of remorse -he probably wasn’t thinking about what happened the nite before at his exams. Aggression, williness to use violence. Unpredictable rage, substance abuse.
His mom’s appearce on TV seemed revealing too. The relatives of the 2 sec. guards were very upset, crying or mad..they had emotion. His mom was flat, she tried to explain it away…”he has every thing going for him, and honor student, etc. Why would he do it?” It looked like she was going down a familiar road. She has facilitated and protected him from the consequences of his behavior for a long time probably.
To the people that know him, they are probably not suprised. To them it was just the next step.
Woodguy, read my earlier post. We agree with you!
Will do Dallas! That is very kind of you!
KerinTX, that’s awesome! Where’s he going?
Loulou -very perceptive. I agree with you completely..
They just shut down Brad Bradley on Fox again – he sort of rolled his eyes and laughed as if to say “I can’t believe this..”
Van Der Douche…I like that one.
I would love to hear from some other young girls, either on the island or not, that have crossed paths with him. You don’t call yourself a “pimp” on your website with no experience to back it up.
VERY nice, Dallas!
—, actually he almost ended up in AL. One of his scholarship offers was to Auburn but he chose a school in NM.
My favorite name from him came from my friend Chris… He couldnt even pronounce the kid’s name so now he just calls him “Dutch-Bag”
well….— I guess I’ll try another time. In the meantime, my thoughts and prayers are with Natalee and her family through this trying time. I see her face in my mind and I wonder what could’ve happened to her. I hope that she gets to return home safely and continue with her life. It’s only beginning.
Sorry about that, Got knocked off line
Please send me your emails of what ever you would like posted. I will lay it out tastefully for — and then email it to her.
My email is tom@scaredmonkeys.com
This is a wonderful effort and I will be proud to work on it in the morning.
T
i suspect he did not pass his dutch exams and had to take the consolation prize of study in the US since he was in a US, not a Dutch School in Aruba. This may have been a source of frustration for him. He is a good tennis player, and has won awards for his prowess.
Thats pretty good,—.
Oh wow! I almost went to school with him then! I hope he enjoys it in NM though… but tell him I still say he should have been a Tiger! haha
Van der Poot!
OMG – look at these two THUGS on Fox!! Can you say Sopranos??
There are a lot of good people in the world, starting with this bunch. You are helping keep pressure of a reluctant bunch of prosecutors.
LouLou….right on the money. You can see it in his face, just like Scott Peterson.
Chopper….saw you’re stuff before. No doubt in my mind about this.
Yes, I’m a mom. I’ll admit. My son is 20 and he’s in college in the northeast. He would fit the Natalee profile – a good kid, good grades, so I knew when I read about her that I recognized this type of kid is one that the authorities must take seriously as not being a runaway. Sometimes the authorities have such skepticism about kids.
For some reason this guy reminds me more and more of that Robert Chambers kid from the incident in Central Park.
Bama you never said where you are from?
Thanks, Tom…I’ll do that first thing in the morning
Hey I’m signing off for the night. I hope that tomorrow is the day for good news!
Good night, all –
—, I will tell him. He has a cousin who ran track there and that is what he is doing in college. Plus I went to college at Troy State so I wanted him to go to AL. But he wanted to run at altitude.
Bham area – Bama Grad
Night, Dallas.
Good night Dallas
thanks tom! Sorry, I jumped the gun and e-mailed you before you posted! I gave you my address in that e-mail though, if you and Red still wanted to send anything… thanks again for all your efforts!
Roll tide!
KerinTX – Yes, I made the comparison a couple days back. Chambers seemed charming, his life revolved around bars and women, could turn it on and off, but apparently had ‘anger management problems’ (sound familiar so far)?
He strangled Jennifer Levin, then said it was “an accident during rough sex” (flash forward to “something bad happened)…
Meanwhile his video tape had him mocking the death using barbie dolls as props.. which remind me of Joran’s website, though the timing there is different. Still, Joran’s sites vanished once he returned home…
Same personality disorder, as pointed out by LouLou…
Tom, I like your style!
WoodGuy, no doubt in our’s, either. Now we must wait through the crap to find out we’re right, and the gruesome details that will follow.
Yes Rick…so many similarities. This time I pray for a better outcome though.
haha. I guess I can’t blame him, then. I’m a little biased
Troy State? That’s awesome! My mom’s cousin is the coach down there… good school!
KerinTX – as do I, but I fear Joran and buddies are simply chanting the identical mantra their fathers and lawyers coached them on after the first release… If they dont bend, I think there could be no resolution…
Kerin….I can see that Dutch Bag’s Daddy is probably setting up that type of defense….’accidental’…blah…blah…blah. I hope not, hopefully they’re will be enough evidence to get them for what it was…plain and simple murder. Such a shame for this girl and her family and friends. I think then when someone is convicted of murder, they should also be charged with all the other lives they destroy around the victim.
Yes. I am very fond of the whole state of AL.
TX on the other hand, well…we have 2 seasons…summer and HOTTER summer.
I might just be naive and overly-optomistic, but I really think there’s a good channce that Natalee can still come home safely… I just don’t see how anyone could know her for more than 5 minutes and still be able to kill her. That girl is amazing.
Looks like everyone is winding down. You crazy kids are keeping me up too late! Time to climb in the rack. Will check in tomorrow!
In Wisconsin, we also have two seasons: white winter and green winter.
Say, will you post, Our thoughts and prayers are with you, Natalee, family and friends, from Excel, Alabama (Monroe County) Thanks
Good night Bama, God Bless!
haha! I’ve never been to TX, but I’ve always wanted to go… it seems really nice! My friend goes to college there and absolutely LOVES it.
Yes Rick, it is very troubling that they have not cracked by now. Makes me think the authorities are not pressuring them at all because by now. most people, especially teens would have cracked.
WoodGuy…I am going to be very PO’d if this takes a turn for the worst and then the “accidental” card is played. That would definitely be a miscarriage of justice.
Well, I can’t stay up all nigt again, so good night all and good luck —, we love ya!
Sure Donna! Thank you so much for your kindness!
Tom & Red –
Im gonna hit the sack in a few mins too – if you check your email now though and are interested in going forward with tomorrow – please e-me in the next few mins and I’ll stay online and take care of it…
Else, talk to you all tomorrow – fingers crossed for good news…
Chopper…..I hope it all does come out for the sake of closure for the family. I hate getting this gut feeling that this may just go as ‘accidental’ death with Natalee never being recovered and these scumbags getting off lightly. I pray not
—,
I hope beyond hope that you are right! Either way, be thankful that you got to know Natalee and have her as part of her life. If she does come home, just think how much you will appreciate her now!
Good night, Bama. Will look for you tomorrow.
—, it actually is a nice state if you are in the Hill Country (near Austin). Most of my students go to college there and love it. Great college environment. But here (near Houston) it is very hot and humid most of the year. We are only an hour from the beach though so that’s nice.
night yall! Sweet dreams!
ooh that is nice! I’m no where near the ocean! I wish I lived in Mobile!
Oh hey “IDon’tKnowNuttin…” I just caught your “roll tide” post and have a little secret to share… I’m a Bama fan, but I’m gonna go to AU!!!! Shhh! Don’t tell! My friends already threaten to beat me up when I say Roll Tide!!! haha
WoodGuy, we’re with you! For the family’s sake, closure is important. Yet, if it were our family, we would hope they got off lightly; we’d be there on their day of release, and then “judgement.”
—,
I am going to bed now too. Please come back tomorrow and talk again? Natalee will be the last thing I think of before I go to sleep and I will say a special prayer for her and the strength of her family and friends.
—
Go DAWGS… AU and UA can kiss my grits… lol
Tom…now if I knew you were a UGA fan well, I would have…
(ok…letting it slide)
So am I the only one here who doesn’t have “y’all” in his vocabulary?
Well, gotta hit the rack. Hopefully tomorrow will bring good news. To Natalee’s friends that are here…..I admire your ability to deal with this extremely difficult situation at your young ages. I hope you will all have peace. G’night from PA Mountains
Psychic…I don’t say ya’ll here in Texas
Good night everyone – signing off till tomorrow…..
Hey Woodguy, don’t leave me with all these crazy southerners!
Tom!!! Shame on you!!! haha
Night Kerin… I’ll be back tommorrow
Thank you again, and I hope you sleep well! Night Night!!!
Night everyone! Sweet dreams and God Bless!
Night —
Psychic, we don’t use Ya’ll in Calif, either, But since I’m a transpanted South Carolina Boy, I know what it means!!! It means YOU ALL! LOL!
Goodnight everybody….see YA’LL tomorrow
You going to bed, —? BTW, that’s not your real name, is it?
Good night, sleep well, pleasant dreams, and hope for some good news tomorrow!!
hahaha chopper! You ain’t no southern boy! If a cat has kittens in the oven, you don’t call ‘em biscuits!!! haha, I’m just messin with ya! You see, if you were a TRUE southern boy, you would know why “yall” is so wonderful… it’s universal! But you have to remember, if you are refering to a whole bunch of people, you can’t just say “yall”… the proper term is “All Yall” Keep that in mind….
hahaha… yeah it’s my real name… my parents just arent very creative…
I guess I’m gonna head to bed pretty soon… night yall! Hope I get to talk to ya soon!
Well, I’m going to adopt y’all into my vocabulary this week in honor of Natalee and all yall who care about her.
haha! Thanks! I promise, you’ll grow to love it!
Well i am a converted yankee.
You know the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee?
The Yankee goes home.
— Says: I know that too! But I was addessing ya’ll, not “all ya’ll!” I am addessing certain individuals, “Ya’ll,” not the whole entire fleet of participants, “All ya’ll.”
Please pass the tators, hog jaws, and collards!
Whose southern now, Ya’ll”!!!
hahaha! I’m lovin this! Chopperboy, you are crackin me up! Tom, you too! (And by the way, I’m sooo stealing that joke!!!
)
any news?
it’s quiet in here………
No, at this point we’re all delirious from lack of sleep. Not much to do execpt wait and pray…
Ok, guys… i guess I should at least try to get some sleep. I’ll talk to yall later!!! Night Night!
it was fun in here last night or should i say morning. we were very delirious!
— Says; was just in Anderson, S.C on Memorial Day weekend to see the annual Balloon festival. The day I came back to Calif was the day NH disappears. I read the story on CNN, along with my 7-year-old, and we both started to weep. This nightmare could happen to anybody, anywhere. And I thank GOD that I have the friends I have, in the Biker community, who would put their lives on the line to help me recover my only Angel.
I pray that NH’s family’s political contacts can help them as much as I know my friends would help me. But as of now, that evidence is not witnessed in the news.
so who’s left? any mediums tonite? i brought my decoder ring! :*
my mom has biker friends here in new orleans…..best friends you’ll ever have! very loyal
Hey Jessibobessy!
Chopper, we know all about the biker community here in Milwaukee, home of Harley-Davidson! The 100th Birthday celebration was crazy huuuuge
very quiet tonite, eh?
Yes jessi, that was pretty delirious last night. I think the first wakeup poster commented that we all had pretty much lost it.
i love a southern moustache….
Yeah, it was nuts last night. I was up until almost 7 AM. Can’t do that tonight!
yeah, well i was having a blast!
me either
didn’t GAGUY look like it should be pronounced “Gay” guy? i really thought that was his name. i’m very blonde at 6 am
Well, a Wisconsin moustache, but I’m an honorary southerner right now.
Oops… now those I told I often leave my door unlocked and my keys in the ignition in my garage have it narrowed down to one state. :-0
We’re a family, just as NH’s family. If your precious little angel was stolen from you, would not your family run to their assistance? We – the Biker community – would certainly, no questions asked.That’s why I initially swaid that NH’s family would have done better to go the Helss Angels rather than the FBI.
Even the FBI have to abide by Aruban law. The Angel’s modify the law to achieve the prime objective. That’s the differnce in this case.
please don’t prosecute if we show up
I actually just thought he had a stuttering problem.
But it turns out he was from GA.
right on chopper
Sorry, but I’ll not only prosecute, but to the *full extent of the law*!!
what an idiot
but she was fun
“didn’t GAGUY look like it should be pronounced “Gay” guy?”
Ya, he didn’t take too kindly to that.
Who the hell you talking bout. psychic?
Yeah, I completely ripped my screen name off her. I started posting as “Badlands,” but that didn’t last long after she showed up.
well then he should’ve added a space……….or made references to “spitting” in a not -so -redneck context
Chopper – There was someone on here (MazRad or something) posting cryptic messages and acting all authoritative like she was a super detective… and maybe psychic.
this crazy tramp was on here last night trying to act like sha was a medium or reporter or just an asshole!
We thought she may have really been Geraldo’s moustache…
i thought you were john?
maybe you should be “Jessica’s bodyguard moustache” that’s what she said you were
Who’s John?
or geraldo’s baby mamma!
john was in here too
Alright, moustache, I thought you were talkin to me. Sorry.
you speak in the same manner…….i thought you were just changing your name to fuck with her
i said i was blonde……
You talkin’ ta me? You talkin’ ta me?
I did change my name to screw with her… just not from John!
chopper, we wouldn’t dare talk ’bout you! we know who your friends are!
were you in here when she posted the entire lyrics to “Freebird?” That was great!
Yeah, she seemed to know that song off the top of her head.
bored much?
My friend’s are your frineds, fellow Americans, and Natalee’s friends. This forum allows us American family a forum to aggregate together; let’s be in unity on why we’re here, and not adversaries in the same family. I apologized to Psycic if I misunderstood his comment.
i wish shed come back while the rooms quiet. notice she missed natalee’s friend
its cool chopper
i was teasing
BTW, a new AP story:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050613/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/aruba_missing_teen
“All three of those boys know what happened to her,” Holloway Twitty said during a 45-minute interview with The Associated Press in her room at the Holiday Inn, the same hotel where her daughter was staying before she disappeared on May 30. “They all know what they did with her that night.”
Holloway Twitty, 44, declined to say what she thought the boys had done or whether she thought her daughter was still alive. She also said she thought that two former hotel security guards detained in connection with Holloway’s disappearance were innocent and should be released.
Awesome! I wish they would listen to her and let those 2 go already! They have families too!
Holloway Twitty said she appreciated all that Aruban authorities have done but added, “I will not be satisfied until they give me back my daughter. I want her and I want her now.”
Good for her!
I admire her strength
its too quiet tonite!
here, read this………
TOKYO (Reuters) – Two kittens picked the wrong place to relieve themselves when they urinated on a fax machine, sparking a fire that extensively damaged their Japanese owner’s house.
Investigators in the western city of Kobe have concluded that the fire in January was caused by a spark generated when the urine soaked the machine’s electrical printing mechanism.
The fire damaged the kitchen and living room before it was put out by the house’s owner, who was treated for mild smoke inhalation, said Masahito Oyabu, a fireman at the Nagata fire station in central Kobe.
The kittens quickly ran to safety, he added.
“If you have a cat, or a dog for that matter, be careful where they urinate,” Oyabu said. “Especially keep them away from electrical appliances and wires.”
No shit!
The two security guards who were initially detained are innocent, no doubt, and should be released. We believe they were going to be the scapegoats had this investigation not been blown wide-open by the FBI and the persistance of the Holloway family.
But the three maggots who drove off with her that night would be dead, unless they could provide answers when “prodded.’
Nice way of saying that, wouldn’t you agree?
I definately agree
okay, so am i alone in here?
Aren’t these awful?
LAGOS (Reuters) – Nigerian police have arrested a cow that killed a bus driver who was urinating on a highway, a police spokesman said Thursday.
The horned African cow, which was wandering stray in the Ojo district of Nigeria’s biggest city Lagos, also injured several bystanders after killing the man.
“The cow went mad, ran into a bus driver and knocked him down. Efforts to revive him were fruitless,” said Lagos police spokesman Olubode Ojajuni.
Some people suggested the animal be shot, but the district police officer ordered it to be taken alive.
“You know what it will take to arrest a mad cow?” one newspaper quoted a policeman as saying. “We applied ingenuity and arrested the cow, which is now being detained at the station,” he said without going into details.
I’m here, Jesse. And glad you are, too!
I’m in here..jessebob..
by the way..I’m the same person that was posting under the name “Nate”…
well hey! I thought i was talking to myself
yeah, I’m taking a little study break…
its time i change my name too……….seems like it happens a lot
how do you guys like the bizarre news stories?
I thought Nate was too common of a name to use…so I went with my radio DJ name from college
My family has three cats and a runt pomeranian…I’m surprised they haven’t come up with a plot yet to get us!
cool. i love music
pomeranians are soooo yappy
haha…yes they are…have you ever seen the movie Blade: Trinity?
we have a cockapoo and a killer cat that pisses down the tub drain because he is jealous of the dog. i figure if he’s smart enough to piss down the drain, he can learn to use the toilet!
no but i am familiar with it
If all we have left is to talk about cats who are smart enough to piss drown drains, then i’m outa here. Goodnight ya’ll, see yas tomorow.
goodnight! there is nothing left to talk about newswise!
I know I am actually replying to posts long ago but boy this board moves fast! SO excuse the vent that’s out of context on this page.
Arubagirl and NativeLingo – I think you are both are wonderful people and commend you for how you both handle yourselves. Thank you for being two very helpful people. Kudos to anyone who has anything decent and intellectual to say. (There are many of you).
For those from the US who can not find anyting better to do with their time than play the blame game, start looking at OUR country before you start casting stones at Aruba. ONE PERSON. Something horrible has potencially happened to ONE PERSON in the span of what? Statistically..gee…umm like this is the FIRST time there? Can we in the US say that? I know of many fishy missing person cases in the US that have never been followed, solved or given ANY press coverage over one minute.
Yes, I don’t like not getting any answers but in the US we received too many speculations which leads to legal unfairness. Maybe, just maybe, Aruba is a country that only wants to disclose facts when they are actually factual.
While I do follow this story and feel deeply for her family, I do realize that there is no one to blame but the person or persons who are proven in the end. Not their, race, creed, color, country or economic status. They themselves. This tragedy could have happened anywhere and in reality it does everyday. It just doesn’t get as much press coverage. It quickly becomes back page news to the new tragedy to sell news.
Just because a suspect, his brother or friends, listen to 50 Cent, say they are a “pimp” or wear certain clothes; do NOT make them guilty or any different from 80% of teenagers these days. By the way, “pimp” is street lingo not what you think it is. Before making conclutions and assumptions try to catch-up on the “lingo”. It actually is thrown around as “Put It In My Pocket aka a money maker” or someone who considers themselves cool. I am 29 years old and I listen to 50 Cent and wear the female version of clothes from the labels they were wearing. Does that make me guilty of a crime? Awful? Disrespectable? None of these arguments have anything to do with the fact that Natalee Holloway is missing!
Bad people are everywhere. That is why we need to remember that even the safest of places could be where a predator lies. Predators thrive on people in the safest of neighborhoods, cities etc. because when we feel safe, we let down our guards. Therefore, you need to stop blaming everyone and save your anger and frustration for where it belongs, with whoever is proven to be guilty of the crime in the end.
learned to luv ya, jesse! you’re something else! hope you’re a girl!
freddy, you there? if not, i have a date with a cigarrette. i seem to do terribly on these sites anyway. only my third time. I’m too silly to be in here. i don’t believe in dwelling if there is no news, ya know?
You go girl! I find myself havibg that same arguement in here every night! way to go cali!!!
I’m all woman chopper!
okay guys! its been real! be back tomorrow hopefully there is news
I bet you are, Jessi!!!! Where you been all my life?
Cali, yes, … it was a vent. I bet you feel better! That’s apparently what this forum was envisioned about by Tom and Red.
I have followed this sight for awhile, both at work and at home. And I have been blessed with the knowledge gained and the re-emphasis of the true, compassionate and justice-loving nature of the peoploe who participate. My personal background, however, always precluded me from casting any form of judgement. But I have a dauhgter, a precious little angel who means more to me than life itself. My riding brothers love her as their own. And we view Nat as one of our own. So I felt, and feeling somewhat stupid about it now, compelled to chime in on this one.
Vent, Cali, and express, “All Ya’ll,” because that is what this forum is ALL ABOUT! Just do it with respect. And please correct me when I personmally err (kindly, of course!)!
Bless the riders.
Good night, All.
Thanks Jessi and Chopper.
Chopper, I too have a daughter. I am already a “stalker” parent with her. lol In this day and age, I have realized my role is most important by being as involved in from life from the start by establishing her knowing I am always going to be next to her in this world. I always tell her, if mommy can’t see you, she can’t save you! I find it so important in this world to be very protective of your children and let them know how important it is to their dafety that you be. I am still a teenager at heart I guess and hope that if I continue to be her parent and friend I can help her understand I will be with her all the way to take care of her and keep her safe.
I feel for Natlie’s parents. I hate reading or hearing anyone bash their decision to let their daughter go on a trip. Simply dropping your child off at school these days is just as much of a risk. Things are just out of a parents hand no matter how much we try to protect them.
I know first hand of feeling safe in a well-known safe place. Just last month in fact I was having coffee with my friend and we were robbed and they tried to kidnap me. This happened in a place nicknamed “sleepy hollow” mind you. I now know people can feel too safe and that there is one where safe and it’s no one’s fault except the evil predators in the world.
I pray they find her and solve this soon because as a mother I know whether good or bad, I would want to know what happened to my child and see the person or persons responsible brought to justice.
totalllyyy aggreeee withhh you caligirl!
CaliGirl Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 3:42 am
I know I am actually replying to posts long ago but boy this board moves fast! SO excuse the vent that’s out of context on this page.
Arubagirl and NativeLingo – I think you are both are wonderful people and commend you for how you both handle yourselves. Thank you for being two very helpful people. Kudos to anyone who has anything decent and intellectual to say. (There are many of you).
For those from the US who can not find anyting better to do with their time than play the blame game, start looking at OUR country before you start casting stones at Aruba. ONE PERSON. Something horrible has potencially happened to ONE PERSON in the span of what? Statistically..gee…umm like this is the FIRST time there? Can we in the US say that? I know of many fishy missing person cases in the US that have never been followed, solved or given ANY press coverage over one minute.
Yes, I don’t like not getting any answers but in the US we received too many speculations which leads to legal unfairness. Maybe, just maybe, Aruba is a country that only wants to disclose facts when they are actually factual.
While I do follow this story and feel deeply for her family, I do realize that there is no one to blame but the person or persons who are proven in the end. Not their, race, creed, color, country or economic status. They themselves. This tragedy could have happened anywhere and in reality it does everyday. It just doesn’t get as much press coverage. It quickly becomes back page news to the new tragedy to sell news.
Just because a suspect, his brother or friends, listen to 50 Cent, say they are a “pimp” or wear certain clothes; do NOT make them guilty or any different from 80% of teenagers these days. By the way, “pimp” is street lingo not what you think it is. Before making conclutions and assumptions try to catch-up on the “lingo”. It actually is thrown around as “Put It In My Pocket aka a money maker” or someone who considers themselves cool. I am 29 years old and I listen to 50 Cent and wear the female version of clothes from the labels they were wearing. Does that make me guilty of a crime? Awful? Disrespectable? None of these arguments have anything to do with the fact that Natalee Holloway is missing!
Bad people are everywhere. That is why we need to remember that even the safest of places could be where a predator lies. Predators thrive on people in the safest of neighborhoods, cities etc. because when we feel safe, we let down our guards. Therefore, you need to stop blaming everyone and save your anger and frustration for where it belongs, with whoever is proven to be guilty of the crime in the end.
I have stayed up all night several nights reading on this site……..I am appalled………..a precious young girl is missing……..as each day passes, hope for her safe recovery seems less hopeful……here is a girl, full of promise, hopes, dreams, opportunities……….so vulnerable @18 years of age……..missing in a foreign land far from home…….ALL that is known is that her classmates saw her get in a car with three guys late on what was to be her last night in Aruba……since that time, basically all that is known is that she missed her flight and has not not been seen nor heard from from her loved ones and friends since……..I do not believe she asked for anything bad to happen to her…………….she was simply a trusting, albeit naive girl……….I have read a lot of her background, her outstanding grades………….and a full scholarship to med. school……..I do NOT believe she had a dark side that would allow her to go out and have sex with three guys…..One of two things happened………she was smitten with the Dutch boy and believed until the last get go that they were going for a little last ride to say goodbye…………..or………….she was given drugs in her drink and didn’t know what she was doing….At any rate, what she went through on that night………..and may be going through now, even still is horrible to contemplate……..I would much rather ere in my judgment on HER SIDE, than that of ALL of the guys who are now sitting their sorry asses up in the jail house………..it is she who is missing, it is her parents who are grieved and worried to death……..
So we have all these people on this board, who have a crow to pick about the most stupid things………..either bashing or praising Heraldo, Hell’s Angels, America, Aruba, Pres. Bush, the chaporones, her classmates, her parents, even………even the question of Hitler being Jewish or not………(what does that have to do with the price of cotton?) Let us all hope and pray that she will be found alive, and very soon, that really is all that should matter to anyone……….
just goy up.. but i have to say,, sorrry but i now think the aruban authorities have blown this case…
Natalees mother about to be interviewed on NbC
Basically she just said the same things that were in the AP report. She elaborated that she doesn’t have any specific scenario as to what the three did to Natalee.
From a post above:
“But dress, drinking a fe2w, and having a good time doesn’t, under any circumstance, invite sexual predatorism”
Why then are all the talking head experts advising young women not to dress provocatively.
Anyone who thinks that provocative dress, getting drunk….and I’ll add getting in a car with 3 boys at 1 AM in an island….
doesn’t invite predators is being absurdly politically correct, or simply naive. Does that make her “guilty?” no. But it did contribute to sending a message to the boys she was with…and I’d wager 90% of American teens would interpret it the same.
She indulged in some stupid high risk behavior that would make any parent here fearful and likely angry if they knew about their daughter doing the same.
This certainly does not suggest that she consented to sex. But that is not a big jump either, from her other actions.
Drunk drivers every night get behind the wheel and often kill people…and some laws send them to jail …even though they may not have intended to kill someone…just irresponsible behavior and a stupid decision to drive for many of them.
No one should lose this opportunity to share with their own sons or daughters how stupid and itrresponsible her decisions were that night. And they were likely to result in increased risk with each additional choice she made.
And who is to say that she did not die of an overdose…the detective last night on Fox said people should not leap to judgment. She may ave ingested her own vomit, a common problem with people who overdrink.
The incident is a tragedy, but her behavior and choices certainly gave her a much higher chance at being in danger.
Anyone here ever walk through a tough neighborhood in the middle of a night by yourself without protection. Not likely, but if you did it by choice, you are situating yourself to something bad happening.
Use this as an opportunity to teach kids. This girl Natalie may have been a “good” girl, but her behavior that night is not what most people would say is not “wrong.” It was in my opinion.
Is it true that Natalee’s mother was advised by the FBI to please abstain from making any comments to the media for 24 hours and that a resolution to the case is imminent.
She was on the Today show this AM at 7:15 EST and gave extensive comments (though nothing new that has not been posted here already). Not sure if that is within the 24 hours you are mentioning (ie when it started).
The problem I have with the theory of her od’ing or choking on vomit is this:….Where is she??
I should have added that was not my speculation, but a scenario that the guest on FOX shared last night (from the US) as being a relatively common cause of death in overdrinking.
The inability to find her does not eliminate this (or a drug or an accident etc) possibility.
Many who investigated the girl who “vanished ” near Curacao in 98(?) said it was just as likely she may have committed suicide.
His only point was that no one should lep to judgment in the absence of information.
It does sound like the three boys may have lied about dropping her off (cameras apparently discredit that claim, if those reports are accurate). But if every teen who lied about getting druk or stealing or using drug etc was put in prison, the streets would be empty.
I would not be surprised if they know what happened to her…but they also may not have killed her…may just be typical teens covering their own butts.
I think if they know what happened to her and are just letting her parents and little brother go through this torture without speaking up, is just as bad if they did murder her. This is a big jump from some teens just covering up for getting high or stealing ….it’s despicable
“Is it true that Natalee’s mother was advised by the FBI to please abstain from making any comments to the media for 24 hours and that a resolution to the case is imminent.”
Actually, Geraldo reported last night that they (Fox) cancelled their interview with the Ms Holloway’s parents because the FBI asked them to “cool their jets for 24 hours”. It was never said that naything was imminent or anything like that.
Despicable, but hardly as bad as murder. And they may be afraid they will be implicated in what may have been a tragic accident or a wild part night gone bad.
This would not be the first time that people have not been honest when afraid.
IF they do know the details (so many reports have been wrong, how can one be sure the cameras covered all the angles etc), then maybe they ARE telling the truth.
I’m not defending a bunch of stupid and drunk teens behaviors. Just saying…like the panel last night…..based on what is known (better to say not known) ….huge speculation is occurring.
If they did on fact know more them they are spineless. But unless these cops who are now wroking with the FBI are idiots in confessions, the odds of three people maintaing a pact are VERY low. As a detective said last night, the one who was involved the least typically confesses or implicates the others first.
Apart from the cameras at the HI and surrounding businesses having no record of Joran et. al. dropping Natalee off, many of the kids were supposedly in the pool and would have seen her come in. None saw her. (This according to one of the students posting here yesterday, FWIW, and caveat that it is not independently confirmed)
Also, the security guard at the HI didn’t see her come in.
Given the fact that she went missing and never returned and given Joran’s history and behavior with the Holloway’s – I think it’s safe to conclude that they never brought her to the HI…
From all reports, many of those students were drunk. And eye witnesses are notoriusly bad.
Let’s keep in mind that no one was looking for her then…they were likely in the pool partying etc. The same kids also said (many of them) that they lost track of her at the club….
I have no idea what Aruban court law is. But I would suspect that the burden would be high in a murder case…..
Cameras also are not reliable. They all have dead spots etc, angles, shadows etc….
Until there is hard evidence (Ie a friend seeing them dump a body etc), the lack of seeing her sounds weak.
How many times have all of us said…”Oh, I did not see you return>”
I tend to agree with you, but the I’d place about zero credibility on what those teens saw. They were all indulged in partying their last night on the isle.
Got a message from ArubaGirl. She is at work and unable to post during the day.
Her impression is that Aruba has gone into Lock Down mode on the story. It is off the radio, off the TV, they even took down the link at Arubadag.com. Emails are going around that you should go onto web sites to protect the name of Aruba.
Also reported that the all press was asked to back off, and Americans did not while the locals did. So we have some resentment there by politico’s and the police.
T
I agree, windyisle. The video would only be useful if it DID show something: Natalee or the silver car. It not being on tape doesn’t really prove anything. Can’t prove a negative, i.e., “prove that I wasn’t there.”
Not sure I agree with that – assuming the cameras at the HI and surrounding business were working properly, the absence of any car with Natalee in it calls into question Joran et als alibis..
Take that info with the reported fact that the hotel security guard never saw Natalee, that she didnt stop by the pool on her way in to say hello to her friends who were all there (seems a likely thing to do), that none (we’re not talking just one, but many) who were at the pool never saw her – then I think it does all add up to “proof they weren’t there”…
Anyone from Aruba, do the Aruban officials like Rudy Croes or Minster of Tourism have email? If so and if anyone knows site to go to or email accts could you please email it to red or tom. Very much appreciated.
Red
There was a reporter last week (on Greta- “retracing Natalee’s setps” segment) who said that the HI camera facing the street was not working; only the lobby camera was working. And though the reporter did point out other cameras between HI and Allegro, like everything else, we don’t know what’s on those tapes. Apprently, the police have the tapes, but no further info.
I hope the police have the tapes and all the info and are keeping it to themselves at this point. They’re conducting a serious investigation unlike the media who feels compelled to embark on this misinformation rollercoaster and then blaming local Aruba authorities. Instead of critisizing the Aruban authorites, have the media go back to the Jon Bennet Ramsey murder investigation; that was the paradigm for a botched investigation.
Rick
I understand your point and no doubt it casts doubt on the boys alibi…and no doubt that is why they have some reason (among others likely) to hold them for questioning.
But there is no way the lack of seeing her would hold up in court or even get an indictment in the US..unless there is real positive evidence like blood, a body etc.
I’d hope that in this country or an other country, the lack of seeing someone return would not implicate one as a murder suspect on that basis alone. It would add as circumstantial evidence but alone would not be evidence.
How many times have all of us been out at night drinking ( too much or even drunk) and partying with an attractive or interesting girl or guy and involved in conversation etc.? Then think how the next day it is all a blur. If they SAW something, it would be far stronger evidence. But not seeing someone return on a casual partying eve is not unusual.
I thought I’d clear up…her brother was mentioned earlier…he’s going into 10th I believe. She has a step brother…I guess 2 grades ahead of us, so he’s probably about 20. Her step-cousins (I guess that’s what you’d call them) are in our grade.
Geraldo just on Fox live saying that he got off the phone with the Justic Minister (Rudy Cruz, sp?) and that Cruz said there would a “resolution to the case momentarily.” Again, who knows if this info can be trusted or why they are talking to Mustache.
The lack of her inage on those tapes would only allow the cops to use them as leverage ..as proof they MAY be lying….
But there needs to be some postive proof somehow to convict them……..
The lack of an image alone won’t help. The lack of a confession (if its true that the Aruban police say one has not been given) is ominous…..if they have not given one by now with being lawyered up, and without concrete postie evidence, it will be tough to get these kids to talk…much less confess.
It seems really obvious to me that these kids didn’t factor into their story the hotel cameras….and consequent lack of concrete evidence about their returning Nat to HI. Their several days of scheming may have missed this one important aspect.
[...] z said there would a “resolution to the case momentarily.” Hat tip commentor DBTV
This entry was posted
on Monday, June 13th, [...]
June 13th, 2005 by Scared Monkeys –>
Dutch newswire this morning (CET) reports that the dutch government sent two ‘experts’ to Aruba. The JD refused to elaborate on the field of expertise. Police chief Jan van der Straten: ”I cannot tell you more, because then it is obvious in which way the investigation is going”. According to Van der Straaten they will do very detailed work and didn’t bring search and rescue dogs.
Anybody know anything about above?
I’m not a big fan of Geraldo’s…..but…..at least he seems to be getting some info…..like a dog after a bone. It’s not a problem for me ….. he seems truly sincere, and not just looking for airtime.
The former Sheriff’s Deputy has some questions…
Can someone explain to me why the chaperons are not the subject of more criticism? I understand that waivers were signed, but I am surprised that people are not all over the chaperons. What was their role? If they were not their to minitor the children, what were they they for? I’d be all over the chaperons, like white on rice, if this happened to my child.
Can someone clear that up for me?
Deputy
The former Sheriff’s Deputy has some questions…
Can someone explain to me why the chaperons are not the subject of more criticism? I understand that waivers were signed, but I am surprised that people are not all over the chaperons. What was their role? If they were not their to minitor the children, what were they they for? I’d be all over the chaperons, like white on rice, if this happened to my child.
Can someone clear that up for me?
Deputy
The former Sheriff’s Deputy has some questions…
Can someone explain to me why the chaperons are not the subject of more criticism? I understand that waivers were signed, but I am surprised that people are not all over the chaperons. What was their role? If they were not their to minitor the children, what were they they for? I’d be all over the chaperons, like white on rice, if this happened to my child.
Can someone clear that up for me?
Deputy
I live in a high rise with security cameras and there have been numerous breakins and thefts not recorded or caught on tape. Too many holes in the system. It all depends on how many they had, the angles, whether they all were operable, rotational or not etc.
The LACK of an image only suggests they MAY have lied…unless this hotel has a foolproof system which is doubtful. Hotels in the US have been criticized after 9/11 for weak security procedures. Why?
1) Guards are usually paid low and are temp agencies. many “security guards ” are themselves ex criminals witha record…since it is a lowpaying minimal wage job/\.
2) card keys and cameras are usually very weak, don’t work, and are not monitored.
I imagine the chaperones were there to help out if there were *problems* the kids were having …… strictly there to be an adult presence, but NOT to ride herd on the kids.
If it had been a SCHOOL sponsored event, then you’re talking about a totally different situation.
DEPUTY-Get off of the chaperones! No one is mad because it IS NOT their fault! They were there in case someone needed to call them because they’d gotten hurt or something. They were not supposed to be checking up on the kids all the time, because that’s not what they went for. 7 chaperones and 130 kids? They could never have kept up.
Get OVER it. They are not to blame.
TCUMOM,
Did their job description not include preventing problems? One doesn’t have to “ride herd” to still prevent poor decisions from being executed.
Any more thoughts?
Deputy
The attorney for one of the men is saying that the three men’s story is starting to break significantly on fox news.
It must be an attorney for one of the other2 , right?
I think the chaperones have been criticized plenty by many here and talking heads.
But apparently this same tour operated the same way for previous classes at the same high school so parents must have felt it was okay.
I’d place more responsiblity on the parents. Before I sign such a waiver, I would have checked out the number of chaperones and no way my kid would go unless the chaperones included the appropriate numbers and included adults whom I knew , with a fair number of other parents.
My kids sat out on “senior trips” to Aruba, and Cancun and I was a “bad parent”. My response was first, a lack of security (Cancun is very risky in my opinion).
More imprtantly, I was already paying for college and I told my kids if anyone was going on a luxury trip, it was me , not them. They could earn that themselves…
Parents need to say No more and do more research. Teens lie and often…any parent will tell you this.
How can you blame the chaperones if they did this in good faith to have fun and still try to do a good job
Blame the tour operators, if anyone
Yes annie.
Heres a good summary:
UPDATE 20: TOP95 FM (Aruban radio station) reported on Monday that they have received information about the story that the suspect Joran van der Sloot gave to the police. The radio station got this information from the attorney that is representing the suspect Abraham Jones. Jones is being held at the same location as Joran and he has been hearing/getting information from within the institute. According to the attorney ,Jones declared that Joran is convinced that he is being framed. Joran is saying that he did not go to the lighthouse with the group at all. He testified that after he left the club, he caught a ride home with his Surinamese friends, the brothers Kalpoe. At that time Natalee Holloway was in the car. Joran allegedly testified that the Kalpoes dropped him off at his home and drove off with Natalee in car. It was only afterwards (a few days later), around his swimming pool, that the Kalpoes made plans to come out with one version of the events. But now it seems that they are trying to frame Joran. The attorney also told the radio station that his client has been hearing Joran van der Sloot sobbing a lot lately.
Former deputy dog
Yeah, I think you ought to go somewhere else with your baiting messages.
The parents and all locals messaging here don’t have a prob with the chaperones, why do you, repeatedly???
Could the reason you’re supposedly a ‘former’ deputy dog have to do with you’re being rude, obnoxious, and overbearing?
Remember let this be a lesson for everyone, young or old. Just because your on vacation doesn’t mean that everyone you meet are good people. No matter how prestigious they may be. Never go off alone with strangers, even in a crowd your not safe. We as parents can’t emphasize this enough. These are words need to be pounded in everyone’s brain.
DT – What do you make of this?
It sounds like one thing is for certain – they sat around coming up with a story.
TCUMOM,
Did their job description not include preventing problems? One doesn’t have to “ride herd” to still prevent poor decisions from being executed.
Any more thoughts?
Deputy
Hello Deputy –
I’ve been reading this board since Friday night…..I don’t want to get into any kind of back-and-forth bickering, so I haven’t posted til now.
As a junior high school teacher, and the mother of a college student (male), I *do* understand what you’re saying, and questioning. The fact is, and I’m ONLY speaking for myself, my family, and friends and family in my school and community…..when students this age/high school graduates/college *choose* to celebrate an event by taking a trip like this, they are certainly encouraged to stay in groups, not leave with anyone out of the group, check-in with EACH OTHER in addition to keeping the adults apprised of their plans……with all that said, the parents accompanying the kids CANNOT (I don’t mean *won’t*, or, or not allowed to) literally *force* a kid to check in ….. yes, everyone may agree to that initially, but once the grads are out partying and such ….. the kids may decide *they* can’t *tell me what to do….*
Please understand that I’M CERTAINLY NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT NATALEE DID/SAID…..I’m simply saying that this is what can happen……no matter what we tell our children, many of them are trusting and naive and believe they will be okay…..
I am sure the parents who accompanied this group are just absolutely, gut-wrenchingly sick with “what ifs” and so forth. Unless it was understood that they’d stay up until ALL grads were accounted for with a check-in system, there is nothing they could have done.
This is just my opinion.
No doubt the tour operators and chaperones will be sued. American culture…and it alos will help parents deal with their own lack of due diligence on sending kids to an island with a drinking age of 18, not checking out the numbers of chaperones, and insisting that known adults go along. But we live in a country where they will get nailed …
I have read several reports saying only 7 chaperones. If that is true, the parents were fools. I always doublechecked who was a chaperone and whether I respected them and their judgement.
TCUMOM,
OK. As a parent, I always viewed a chaperon as my onsite representative. Yes, age of the audience adjusts the role, but I am literally perplexed at how this all happened. Believe it or not, I could better digest the situation if I had heard that there were no chaperons involved.
I’ll admit that I am old school, but this seems like a trip where dumb and dumber were in charge. I have never heard of chaperons who were hands-off. Things such as a bed check would have been a minimal reasonable act. And why did Natalee’s freinds not get a chaperon when they saw her going in to a car with Larry, Curly and Moe?
Am I missing something here?
Deputy
I’ve monitored this line for the last 24 hours and feel we in the US have over the last fifty years started blaming others for their woes. We are individuality responsible for our actions, bad things happen to all people, stop blaming others.
Annie, I’m thinking one of them did something to her and that they’re starting to crack and we will hear the end of this soon.
tcumom
Perhaps someone here can say whether parents served as chaperones. I’ve read that the chaperones were not parents …but hired by the tour operator.
Don’t you think parents should perform due diligence on the chaperones and the island drinking age etc before they send them off???
I agree, Enola Gay. The chaperones will not be sued-Natalee’s parents know these people and like them, and have said they DO NOT place blame with them. Again, they were there in case of emergency.
And her friends are not to blame either. They are nice people, and just as Natalee thought it was safe to go with these guys, they most likely thought so too. I doubt any of them, including Natalee, thought that the ride would end up at the beach, or that anything bad would happen.
No, the chaperones are well-known, well-liked people from here. Everyone knows them.
Now they’re saying that they dropped van der slot and natalee off at the beach while van der sloot is saying they were dropped him off at the house and drove off with natalee.
mbhs05…. did Natalie have any history of running away?
Former Sherriff
Your points are well taken.
There were complaints all week from other guests at the HI of the behavior of the group and the chaperones had meetings to try to gain control over the kids. I read this on another message board….from a parent whose daughter was in the same class.
The whole thing sounds like a total abandonment of common sense bu many parties.
No.
Deputy –
Again, only speaking for myself, I do agree with, and understand, what you’ve just said. When our son (only child) graduated from high school many, many of his friends and classmates went to Cancun for *partying*. We were lucky in that he (surprisingly) didn’t want to go, or maybe he knew we’d say he could forget it! Anyway, there were several meetings for parents/students about what was expected of both groups….blah blah blah. Papers were signed, and so forth, and off they went.
We may never know why her friends didn’t find a chaperone at the bar when they saw her leaving……perhaps the adults weren’t there……I can’t remember……and the fact is, even if a chaperone had *attempted* to stop her, Natalee might have still insisted she was going with the new friend(s) she’d met earlier in the week…..sigh…..
I think maybe the word *chaperones* was not a good choice when the group went to Aruba …… it was just having several adults present, in case medical problems, money problems, personal *stuff* came up……
MBHS05,
In all due respect, you seem to be blindly taking the site of the kids and chaperons. Open your eyes. This was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Deputy
I am taking their side because I KNOW THEM. And I also went to a meeting about the trip before my parents decided I couldn’t go. They were not really there as chaperones, they were there “just in case”. And everyone knew that. Period. This trip has been run the same way for at least 3 years here, and there have been no mishaps.
Agree with the deputy.
This trip had all the earmarks of high risk.
An entire chain of bad judgements, controls, and decisions.
Hopefully every parent reads all the details about this and it helps build awareness of how stupid these “senior trips” are.
Unfortunately, it always takes a tragedy to get attention it seems. Parents are now more vigilant after the publicity on the % of girls contacted by sexual predators on the net.
If these people were not there as chaperones, then every parent was a fool and totally irresponsible to fund (if they did ) such a trip.
Why did your parents say No?
You’ve provided every reason why the trip, from the outset, was poorly controlled.
Thanks mbhs05. That rumor had been flying around this board and others in the last couple of days.
The lack of a mishap driving drunk 3 times in a row does not mean the same high risk was not present. The odds were this “just in case” trip was a minefield waiting to happen.
People need to stop placing blame.
Who drove drunk? What are you talking about?
windyisle –
I agree with you ….. in addition to my previous post, I think that the students’ parents (in our situation) were probably looking at this as a little vacation for themselves, too. When *I* think of chaperones, I tend to think of a school event, or perhaps *paid* adults who are literally checking on/keeping in check ALL who are on the trip, no matter WHAT age.
Our son did a semester abroad in London last year, and you can only imagine the questions/checking we did with that ….. whew.
looks as though the lawyers for jones and john are filing for their releasestrong>
Joran’s story about sending an e-mail to Natalee after being dropped off at home can be easily verified – timeline, etc. I’m sure somebody has checked her computer.
mbhs
Disagree
There is a lesson here for every parent and individual. You are defending a trip that seemed high risk. In my opinion, there is a LOT of blame to go around. Mostly bad judgment and poor decisions and irresponsilbility. If what you say is true about that meeting, then the parents were totally irresponsible (unless their kid was 18 and indpendent) in allowing them to go.
I’d wager future trips will not occur at the school when the facts emerge.
Your parents made a good decision on your behalf.
This may prove what we all know – that blood IS thicker than water. The brothers seem to be banding together to save themselves…and Joran has nobody on his side. But everyone now knows they’re lying…since this contradicts their original story that they all ended up back at the HI to drop Nat off.
Who drove drunk? What are you talking about?
I am using that as an analogy to your statement that because nothing happened the previous trips, that in your eyes and apparently others means it was okay or low risk.
The odds caught up with poor controls.
So placing blame with people that are already suffering does good…how? And almost all the kids in my grade are 18. I can only think of about 3 people that might have been 17 at the time of the trip and I don’t think they went. It might be less than 3.
But the point is, everything looked safe to them. This isn’t the first time the trip has been taken.
Further more…I’m tired of people who don’t really know how it is, how things work here, or how this town feels telling us that THEY know everything.
You don’t. You do not know how it is.
Hello all – just viewed some of the other blog sites. It seems now there is something going on about the 3 turning on each other, has another here heard or can confirm that?
Do we know for sure who the car belonged to? The brothers or Joran.
mbhs05…I am from the south. Spring Break trips and senior trips are a tradition here. These kids are 18 and about to head off to college ALONE. It’s just assumed risk. I am sure these parents were just going for a nice vacation. I am sure they weren’t actually responsible for keeping up with over 100 kids. There’s no way and they are not to blame for this.
Let’s just let the truth come out and stop blaming parents, etc.
MBHS05- Being from MB myself, knowing the circumstances surrounding this trip and personally knowing Beth, please just ignore those who are blaming everyone but the perpetrators, esp. Deputy. These people don’t seem to really care about Natalee, her family or friends; they only want to see everyone suffer. Please be careful here.
Yesterday Fox reported that the car belonged to Joran. They commented about how the legal age to gamble, drink and drive were 18 and Joran is only 17.
localyokal and KKM-Thank you! At least some people have some sense. I just feel so horrible for her friends, her family, and the chaperones. They should NOT be getting blamed about this. They should be getting support and prayers.
Your welcome. I just understand how traditions are here and what my senior trip was like. We are all praying for her. She has become everyone’s daughter, sister and friend throughout all of this. Somehow we seem to know her personally through the reports. Our thoughts are with her 24/7. Keep your chin up!!!
Sometimes when people can’t control what’s happening, they want to find someone or something to place the blame……we all do this at times.
Unfortunately, because nothing has been definitely resolved, it seems as if some are focusing on the adults who were there, parents who allowed their kids to go…..and so on.
For me, the bottom line is …. it’s a terribly tragic situation where the only guilty party/parties is the one who does know what has happened to Natalee.
Well I’m off this for the time being…I’m glad there are people from around here on now, because at least ya’ll understand. I’m still praying and hoping…
mbhs05….have a great day and we will keep praying!!!
Hey, there are two threads. Can we all move over to here? It is hard to keep up with both.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1129
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http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1131
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