RSSNatalee Holloway Comment Post 3
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457 Responses to “Natalee Holloway Comment Post 3”
Previous Comments are at this link
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1114
TOP 95.1 is saying that 9 FBI members arrived today at 3 (possible, at that time there is a plane arriving from Miami, if I remember correctly)
Ooops, Tom, you’ve posted an infinite loop…
what happened? I couldn’t get to this link
Personal interesting tidbit. The pilots of the police chopper are my neighbours. I don’t dare ask them anything, though.
oh! come on arubagirl
Tom: You need to correct the link to this page from 1114
What?
Dear K. in TX……….I think if you’ll think back a bit, you’ll remember that Gen. Manuel Noriega was extradited from Panama to the US and tried and convicted as an International drug smuggler and money launderer from Panama, having committed his crimes Outside the US………..There is little, if anything, that would stop the US, if they desired , to extradite the individual responsible for this criminal event from being tried in the US, and, quite frankly, I tend to agree with Arubagirl………..I think the lovely island of Aruba would Welcome the opportunity to rid itself of not only our nauseating American media, but any connection with the individuals responsible for this senseless and horrific event, which has served to do nothing more than place a terrible black-eye on an otherwise idyllic paradise……….
Maybe Geraldo will draw us a map in the sand of what the authorities are going to do next…..
Oh Oh……I see another John here…..guess I’ll change my name
Gosh people…if you don’t like Geraldo, just turn the channel!
he may be telling the authorities what he’s going to report and trying to convince them that he’s right
Tom & Red………..You have a ton of energy and patience…………….I tip my hat to you !
LOLOLOL – John – good one!
ok guys…. from the horse’s mouth…… within the hour, my friend spoke to a member of the Holloway family in the Holiday Inn…. and Dave Holloway (father) hasn’t left the room… he hasn’t heard a thing from the FBI telling him that they have found a body…. it’s crazy the conflicting stories…. the family back in Alabama has called Fox, MSNBC, and CNN and asked them to please stop spreading rumors….. It’s really causing a lot of pain….
I think Tom might have put in the bad link to slow down traffic a bit…. Just kidding
wow, sensing the love here for Geraldo. ….
Good News Update.
No confession
http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?page=view&id=D8ALLDA80
I don’t watch Geraldo, and have’nt for years. He just popped up in the middlle of a story that I have been following for days.
Good, it’s the Arubagirl giving us the non-FOX, MSNBC, CNN, et al., local chatter.
Arubagirl (or NativeL, etc.) …could you please provide what the citizenry of Aruba are voicing regarding keeping these two former security guards under lock and key.
Is there anything that would indicate they have a role in this mess?
Thanks runningforArlene. I’m glad to know that I’m not crazy for thinking that U.S. media is slightly going crazy.
Got visitors. Will entertain.
Arubagirl can you feel the waves come over you?
The evidence on which these security guard are held is RIDICULOUS.
Hi Guys,
Great site, I was directed here from ‘misfitting’ a few days ago.
If you want to deport JVS, we probably would take him, but you have to promise to keep Geraldo.
Thanks John. Like I said, I’m no expert. I hope I didn’t come across as a know-it-all, because I’m certainly not!!
FOX just aired a video interview with Joran’s attorney and he stated that his client did not confess to anything and that the statement that something bad happened was made. He is still saying his client is innocent
ROFLMAO Lesa!
VDS lawyer says he NEVER confessed!
tom thanx , i don t know what happened there…
K in Tx………Where in Texas ?
The 2 guards will be released soon…..
ok , i have a question. did antone think what happened today was nutz, or did i dream all that… i think im in a nother dimension
I was found out ,,, I really had to pee. Needed to be able to catch my breath.
T
Dallas
catherine herritage reported that the dna has come back… no word on the results…
K in TX………………Thanks. I practice law in Houston, Tx.
Natalee Holloway Update: More FBI Resources Arrive
Live from Aruba: Joran Van der Sloot’s attorney says his client maintains his innocence and refused to comment as regards a potential alibi for Joran. He did not answer any substantial questions.
Attorneys for the three suspects are leaving court house now – boys will be held over for additional eight days as investigation continues. The attorneys are not permitted to comment on facts of the case to the press.
A report from an airport source states an additional nine FBI agents have recently arrived on the island of Aruba at 3PM today.
This post is also available at Blogger News Network.
John
I think we will be putting out an ad for some help. Certainly keeping the Monkey on their toes.
my friend lives in mejia tx.. we went to carnival in feb together… im from pittbsurgh
ver der sloot appears too be pretty big
Red………. lol………..I guess it’s pretty sad when you practice law for a living 5 days a week and spend your “off” time reading potential criminal case blogs……….
Yes, he is 6’5…big kid…
6’5″
No trade, Lesa
I’d really like to know the answer to this question. “Where did the 3 guys go after supposedly dropping off Natalee at the hotel at 2 in the morning? Did they go home, did anyone see them, what time was the earliest anyone saw them after C&C’s? Did their parents see or hear them come home that night/morning?”
can anyone answer my question, what the hell happen today? confessions… no confessions… father going to id body… then no he s not… i think it was crazy.. evryone report she was dead then not dead…
Red………………I should probably be in a supine position under the sunshine somewhere on Aruba………
NativeL: Thanks…I missed that about the 2 sec guards finally getting their release!!!!
This threshold for successful habeas corpus issue in Aruba drives most of us in the US nuts. And, the free pass that J-VDS and friends benefited from makes me cringe.
This cannot be good for the political leadership of Aruba who haven’t been exactly leading and standing tall under the lights of cable news and the blogosphere. (IMHO).
dutch guys are usually that big.. thats not uncommon, but the towered over the guards…
Here is my question,
What is going on?
More FBI agents are on the island.
The body has or has not been found.
The Government is telling different stories by the hour.
The family is in tears, they are giving out many different stories.
The family has or has not seen the body.
The boy has or has not confessed.
This makes a Clancy Novel look tame.
Rob, what happened???
MMI: MASSIVE MEDIA INCOMPETENCE……
Rob, really? I wonder how many dutch play basketball…
Another news link 8 min ago, with conflicting information.
http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=3462251&nav=2CSfavjM
They should be here and would have real information as it is happening thanks to aruga girl & local
Hi everyone..been reading your posts …following along with you all…im a canadian living in caribbean ..Jamaica…we had similar case…a young woman go missing here a few years back….she was never found….find it interesting all the attention this case is getting..not meaning this in a disrespectful manner…just noticing ! and wondering why? I am a mother of a teenage boy her age..hes off to school this sept as well…but i find the comments surrounding criticism of the parents for allowing their “coming of age” children to travel abroad totally absurd…and downright painful…blame is not the issue here
For anyone interested, in addition to the obvious “lack-of-stated-evidence” to hold the security guards any longer, the Aruban gov’t. no longer needs any add’l persons to prove any conspiracy theory which may develop………….it only takes 2………….now they have 3……………
i dont know if i can handle another day like today… especially now that geraldo is in volved.. he never get his story straight.. and sometimes gives out the coordinates of soliders accidentally that could be picked up by our enemies…he s a real piece of work….
thnx tom.. that sums it up…. i caNT BELIEVE WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THAT FAMILY.. THE MUST NOT KNOW WHETHER THEY ARE COming or going.. damm keyboard…
Urm, I’m sorry, but what precisely has the government released or said? Or the prosecution? So where are the conflicting stories coming from?
John
Law and this on your free time? That’s a cry for help.
Some how I think that the ACLU would go broke with the Dutch legal system.
Yet one more reason why I like Aruba.
However, I am a bit stunned how more FBI agents are there. Could it be more than just the obvious?
“Well! I’ve often seen a cat without a grin,..
but a grin without a cat!
It’s the most curious thing
I ever saw in all my life.”
Red, the amount of FBI agents is just weird, imho.
hey nate.. i dont know about basketball. but i do know they like to play some stupid game that looks loke doge ball and lacrosse mixed together. i think it s even a professional sport….theyre a little loonie
this is what i am wondering red…..seems odd so much FBI co-opertaion and manpower…not to underestimate the value of this girls life..of course..but just doesnt seem “usual”…i thought i read here once that natalies family had some connection with a US senator….is that correct?
Met many Dutch people, have you Rob?
FYI….
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-o380-k168722-i9659-Off_topic_chatter.html
“They’ve been talking about it on Top 95.1, I wish we had not lost arubiangirl – they are talking about Nancy Grace right now -it sounds like they are unhappy with our media – know that’s old news. I would give anything to know what they’re saying.”
….Post From BeachGirl61
old gf from heilvort holland
Urm, okay…. They’re just taking calls, my least favorite part of this thing called radio.
HEEEE, Rob. Dutch girls are a breed apart. I’m one of them.
tell me more…
MSNBC reported that Security Guard’s attorney has been leaking some of the conflicting reports that have everyone confused.
VDS’s Mom during interview stated that he had exams on Monday and was not acting unusual in any way until he was picked up by the police. She also said that he too was an honor student and had been accepted at 6 different Universities in the US
i love dutch women.. its a serious weakness…..like chocolate.. cigs.. and well. i ll leave the rest to your imagination…
Which lawyer, Chris Lejuez or Noraima Pietersz?
someone is definetly spreading false info…
i am wondering how Arubians are reacting to the two black security guards being held….something like this would spark big uprisings if it happened here….i think this speaks alot to the gentler temperment of the people there…are racial tensions prevelant there amongst locals? is pay in aruba like here in jamaica…no middle class ..almost slave labor?
Red……..Actually, I’m working on a case mediation for Tuesday……….I’m just following this case somewhat intently because of how strongly I feel for the Holloway family during this travesty. My heart goes out to them. No parent should have to suffer the death of a child. There is no worse event for a parent. The political and media machinations which have accompanied this have exascerbated all aspects of the obvious tragedy. It just doesn’t get much worse. My thoughts, prayers, and condolences to the entire circle of family, friends, and concerned citizens of Mountain Brook and Aruba.
just what we need in the us.. ver der sloot trolling american universities…. like a scene from the movie american physco
Lisa, No racial issues here….
Aruba (after uerto Rico) has the highest standard of living and per capita income in the region….
Lisa…where in Jamaica are you?
No, there is a pretty strong middle classes, spanning all races.
well stated john..and think of the onslaught that will continue to follow them after they find out what happened….their world will never be the same again..in so many ways…
ok…sorry if i am asking strange questions ..hope im not offending anyone!
arubagirl
they didn’t give a name, only that this was one source of leaks (we all know how true this could be). They tried to get VDS’s Mom to give details as to what he was saying and she said that they had not heard of any arrests, bodies found or not found. She also said the International Media was making everyone crazy. Whe she was asked questions, she stated that he would need to ask the police. She stood firm when he (reporter) tried to convince her that he was trying to give the true/correct report. She didn’t fall for it.
My heart goes out to her as well
No, I’m glad that you are asking it, and that we can reply and tell the truth.
John I would agree. Even worse with the media like a pack of wolves to get the story. The worst senario ever and the eye of the media on you. I feel so sorry for the family
i look forward to visiting your fine island one day….ive heard many nice things about it.
Native……….Slight correction for you………The Cayman Islands have the HIGHEST per capita income in the Caribbean……Period ! Aruba’s per capita income is $22,000US………..Puerto Rico’s percapita income is $17,000US…………just as a point of information………………..The Cayman Islands per capita income is over $32,000US.
I think it’s Pietersz, because she was saying (now I remember) that v/d Sloot broke down. But Top 95 was like, uhm, okay, if you say so, lady.
Almost Riders Up
Likewise, Lisa.
john….the data may be revised for GC after Ivan….!!funny how media is…covering this but not exposing teh total devastation of Grand Cayman….whose pulling those strings anyhoo? hahaha
Post Parade…..
the tone of the people talking on Power 95 is amazing … Everyone sounds as stressed as I feel
this is the story that is not getting out.
The Blog world has decided this is only a story of a missing white girl. They do not realize that it is the story of a missing girl and an island that is in agony and fear.
Remember Joran’s father is a lawyer – his mother has been well briefed on what to say and not say
it’s funny how all of you are ripping on the media, but yet you’re sitting on the edge of your seats waiting for the moment they give us the slightest word! We’re all depending on them to give us updates, otherwise we drive ourselves crazy wondering!
yes, the irony is amusing
John, you may be right, I just quoted a report by the Central Bureau of Statistics….
Aruba, second after cayman (I guess)
true googler… it’s apparent however, she is still a very stressed Mother
MSNBC also reporting that additional FBI flown to the Island is for forensic testing only
Of course she’s stressed – who wouldn’t be
The story is not just going to be about Aruba, but any vacation spot in the Caribbean. Will parents think twice about letting their daughters go to Cancun for Spring Break? Will schools not schedule these senior trips?
I can’t say I feel bad for Aruba, a lot of this is their own doing. The ineptness of the police force has dragged this story on for weeks. The mystery is what keeps the attention. A normal police force would have had this solved in a day, and we wouldn’t be talknig about this.
I don’t like cutting down law enforcement, as I come from a strong family of it. But we are working on 2 weeks now, and it seems that everyone is completely lost. They have 2 suspects who look like they have no business being in jail. They also can’t seem to crack 1 of the 3 teenagers. We aren’t talking about hardened criminals with minds, these are 17 and 18 year old boys. A good interrogator would have these kids spilling their guts in a couple hours.
I would not forbid my daughters from travelling to the Caribbean, although I’d want them to be careful. I would however forbid them from Aruba, as it seems the law enforcement there is lacking signifigantly.
Native…….lol……..it’s probably because of all of the offshore banking on GC……….the only bldgs. still standing after the last hurricane…………
The chopper pilot was just picked up.
Damn how many FBI are needed for forensic testing?
At this stage, you don’t need to be a lawyer to know that you shoul dshut your mouth during police questioning.
Maybe the world could use a few fewer student vacations whose primary motivation is drinking and partying
Think about this…Now I know that Aruba is not the bad place that alot of news reports have sensationalized about and that kidnapping and human trafficking are scarce….but…….what would
1. Keep 3 young, easily manipulated (by FBI interrogation tactics) boys from talking
2. Absolutely no trace of victim.
What if she was snatched by bigger fish who threatened these boys with harm to their families if they talked…..no trace of victim……very little info from suspects except “something bad happened”.
Everything that’s going on right now could be a smokescreen while they bring in more special agents to go after bigger, more ominous suspects.
Perhaps the FBI involvement can be explained by the recent investigations in Aruba as a transhipment point for drugs from South America, and Van Der Sloot’s possible involvement in traffiking.
Jim, out of curiosity, where are you from?
Jim makes a good point. These are young kids. Easy to break them down.
That isn’t fair Googler. Hundreds of thousands of students go on these trips every year. There are instances like this, but they are very slim. My daughter can get in this type of trouble in the states just as well.
Rickster. Thats really reaching.
…and they’re off…into the back stretch…
This is only the ultimate disasterous outcome. How many come back after doing things they later regret?
Maybe I’m just an old fuddy duddy, but there must be a better way to have a good time
arubagirl, I’m from Chicago.
Rickster, that is highly unlikely. I’m assuming the FBI is there for the forensics, as they are far more advanced in that aspect. They may also be looking into corruption regarding the Aruba government protecting the son of a high ranking official.
Tom & Red……….One thing, that from an investigative standpoint, I find interesting, is that, to my knowledge, has anyone established any “alibi” whatsoever, for any of these 3 boys, from 2:00 am (the point where they state that they dropped Holloway at the Holiday Inn), and the remainder of the night, until the next morning ? Just how many hours did they have to account for their time, whether disposing of a body or agreeing upon a plausible story for the authorities ?
Who won, Whitney??
I think the FBI is largely there because a US Senator insisted
Jim….How long befor SCOTT PETERSON was arrested and his wife’s remains found??????
John,
When you have 3 suspects and you keep them separately the interrogation possibilities go way up.
and Jim, what happened with the genius police work in the O.J. case??? Please……
Rip by ticket……………
The police work was real good in the OJ case. They had a ton of evidence against him. OJ just had the best lawyers in the world and a dumb jury that let him off. OJ was arrested pretty quickly.
arubagirl
has your chopper pilot neighbor been transporting FBI Agents to the Island
Please Jim….review the case….the police owrk was sloppy….anyways…irrelevant now… Just Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house….stay civil please
I just find it hard to believe that 3 young kids could be crafty enough to hide something as big as a body on such a small island such that noone could find it and then have iron willpower in not talking. 3 young suspects that are separated from each other are no match for proven interrogation tactics from professionals. There has to be a reason they’re not talking…either
1. They’re innocent and really don’t know anything
or
2. They are scared shitless (moreso than being found out for murder)
Googler………Not the answer to the question asked. Thanks for your input. I understand WELL how case theory develops. I’ve been practicing law for over 20 years. My question related to one specific time period. The last evening of the trip…………from the period of 2:00am till the scheduled flight time, which did not include Natalee Holloway.
Quote taken from http://www.hasibokos.com/
ArubaGirl/NativeLingo (other Arubans),
“According to local media the phones of the suspects were tapped this week and they were also followed 24/7. This all resulted in alleged incriminating evidence and as a result they were arrested again on Thursday”
Have you heard any specifics on what pollice observed?
arubagirl are you hearing on the radio about a US chopper hovering over?
The Preakness Winner is the Belmont winner, too. Afleet Alex by 7 and another 7 to the pack.
Oh, but NativeLingo, he attacks our country’s police force, but in HIS country, every single crime gets solved, yes sirree. In less than two weeks, of course. There are NO missing persons EVER in the United States, Illinois or Chicago. Oh, and corruption? The U.S. has no idea what this thing is? Corruption?!! WHat is this thing called corruption?, asked President Nixon.
Actually, I think the timeline is longer. I think they claim to have left CnC at about 1:15 am
Yes, either Canashito or Hooiberg, wasn’t that close.
been listening/reading all afternoon.. what about this: the kids go to the beach. they have an accident “something bad…” that night (NH overdoses, falls, drowns, etc.), so JVDS calls daddy. Daddy is a prominent lawyer. Daddy calls in some favors from the local underworld and the body disappears… professionally… no clues. Happens on TV all the time.
Thanks Whitney –
Justwondering:
That was the REASON why they were let go after the initial interrogation…..the ONLY reason….
arubagirl, I’m talking about this case. A couple teenagers with bogus stories and being the last to see this girl alive. They can’t hand you a case on a platter like this. Two weeks of being outsmarted by a 17 year old, some spot on police work you have going on.
Next scene, daddy gets blackmailed by local underworld. “happens on TV all the time”, Puhlease!
I seriously doubt the police has been outsmarted by a 17 year old..
Well, I’m talking about your lousy police force. Remember other cases that it was so obvious….How about a certain little girl in Colorado, a mother and her unborn child, etc, etc.
Did I read somewhere that his Father has not been on the Island this past week? (Joran’s)
Does anyone know what the authorities found after their 24hr survaliance of van der Sloot and the Surinamese brothers before their arrests?
arubagirl, you are bringing up like 3-4 cases over the last 10 years. The US police force is the best in the world, and most of our crimes are solved quickly and properly.
I’m not sure anyone was outsmarted for 2 weeks. I think they had their eyes on these boys from the beginning. But they pointed the finger at someone else and they had no evidence. So, time to get the evidence while they are out and others in custody. This happens with almost every case in the US. “Person of interest” brought in for questioning. The the person is let go and everyone is shocked thinking “Wow, and I thought he was the one.” Then a few weeks later, bam, “person of interest” becomes “suspect”, then becomes “the accused”. Happens all the time here, so what makes it so messed up in Aruba?
Jim, and you say you’re involved in law enforcement?? Is STEPFORD in chicago??
Googler………”Granting” the 3 boys(not-by-choice) everything up until 2:00am…….What have their answers been to questions asked regarding their whereabouts from 2:00 am until either flighttime or daybreak……….and I’m certain, at this juncture in time, that those questions have been asked “repeatedly”. this certainly would have provided ample time to either conjure an alibi-scenario, or, alternatively, time for evidence/body disposal.
Yeah right Jim….Not!
I don’t think you’re going to find this girl on Aruba..
Mother did it. I was an accident. Father covered up. Everyone knows that. Burden rests with the DA.
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE native. Good one. Probably Wisteria Lane is.
ok im back. john i read your comment, and i have to agree… but, lets say for instants, that vd sloot did drop natalee off. maybe someone at the holiday inn is to blame.. i said two or three days ago that the people working at the holiday inn need to be given anal…someone there could have erased a tape… that place is like a frat house.. i d be checking that out throughly…. if you have no evidence no body.. no nothing.. i d go back to the beginning and start over…we are either all being delibertly led around in a circle, or this is the must unusual case every.. someone is going to come to the correct conclusion , let s hope it s not geraldo
Stepford? What is that?
Priorities.
I strongly suspect that the purpose of letting the 3 go earlier was not to gather evidence, although they worked on that. But primarily to give JVDS a chance to connect up with Natalee. The theory being that she was alive and well and in hiding.
But if she wasn’t alive and well, then they would gather evidence.
I send my love and prayers to Natalee and her family. I can not imagine how you are handling the stress, heartbreak and uncertainness of the turbulent events that have occurred since Natalee’s disappearance. I, personally, am not giving up hope that Natalee will be found alive until or unless the worst result is officially verified. I will continue to pray for her safe return. God bless all.
Holiday Inn is a frat house? I worked there, haven’t quite noticed that, but it’s been some years.
Hey arubagirl…where does the majority of waste go in Aruba? In terms of landfills?
too many missing pieces in this one… those boys were drunk that night, possibly high as well. Dumb, drunk, high teenagers would make a lot of mistakes… leaving a clear trail for the police to follow. It’s too squeeky clean for me to belive that these boys cleaned up after themselves. Someone helped them…
What about Jessica Lunsford? She was in the house of the sex offender that killed her when the police were there. I still think they kicked butt in getting him. I wish they would have found her when they were there, but they didn’t. It took several weeks to find her and she was right across the street from her home. I could name case after case where things happened in the US very similar to this. And take a look at all of the missing in the US that are still not found years later or where police know who killed them but can’t find a body or evidence to prosecute.
Jim…I REST MY CASE….
We have one big landfill in Aruba, about 7 minutes from the airiport. It’s open 24 hours a day., There is a guard there that writes down the car number and asks you where your from. You give him your bags, he throws them in the bin.
Jim………Actually, US investigative/intelligence agencies Aren’t the “best” (I hate using that term) in the world……….Factually, both our FBI, as well as our CIA are regularly “schooled” by the Israeli Mossad, which arguably, is, the “best” on the planet !
arubagirl…thanks for the info
Any info on the 24hr survaliance of van der Sloot and the Surinamese brothers before their arrests?
Good point B’hammer. That’s why a lot of people still had a slight sliver of hope that she did not want to be found. I think a lot of it came because the recent coverage of the runaway bride.
I don’t get what Jessica Lunsford has to do with this case? If that guy was the last person to see her alive, then yes, he would have been caught sooner. The Lunsford case had little to nothing to go on. These kids basically did themselves in.
You can bring up obscure US cases all you want, but it has nothing to do with this one. This is a case that most people here knew who did it within a couple days. I think most of us knew those 3 had something to do with it. Just seems very odd how we’ve gone weeks without a body, confession, or actual arrest with charges. Either the LE is completely lost, or the kid is getting some help from the higher ups. A lot of the US media has started to bash Aruba LE, saying they can’t handle such a high profile case.
aua gurl. it is a frat house, look on the outside it has greek letters….
My guess is that the additional FBI presence is for gathering evidence at crime scene (if and where body was found)…….what a shame.
No, there is nothing justwondering. To be clear. Police and prosecutors have not said a word since the shortest press conference in Aruba’s* history earlier this morning.
*I’m being sarcastic. Just sayin’
well I think that alot of the us media is wrong!… so di alot of the folks here Jim…
thank you arubagirl… you have provided a lot of great info this afternoon! We appreciate it up here in B’ham.
jim dont forget that incredible media whirlwind today.. i still can t believe it… dead not dead….. WTF?
Rob & Jim & Googler………….Once again……..Forget what anyone else did after 2:00am on the evening in question…………What have the 3 boys stated that THEY did between 2:00am and the flight time or daybreak ? or……….Where did the 3 boys state that they WERE between 2:00am and flighttime or daybreak ? Has anyone heard the answer to THIS question ???
That;s my point too Rob… The US media is just like rabid dogs!…
John – obviously I don’t know what they said about after 2am. I Joran said he went home to bed I don’t know what Arubian law says about whether his family would have to testify. I don’t know anything about the 2 brothers family situation in Aruba.
Rob, I think the media was right from the start. It seems someone said something they shouldn’t have and everyone is now trying to clean up the mess. CNN doesn’t print a headline like that without someone credible speaking.
I think in a couple days we will find out that the Media was right, that one of the kids confessed, and that this was just a cleanup job to protect the family’s privacy.
Jim, believe me, we don’t want to become experts in these type of cases….
It has everything to do with it when people are casting stones across the ocean about law enforcement taking too long to find her or arrest the right people, messing up an investigation and how US could do so much better. My point is that maybe US could, but we could find case after case in the US where they didn’t. I think they are doing a fine job over there of handling the LE part of it, it’s the public relations part that has turned into a nightmare. That is what I think they were unprepared for.
i totally understand.. and that s prolly where the differenes in the stories are coming from…
Nativelingo- Sure the police work has been shoddy ! How do you release the last 3 people who were seen with an intoxicated girl & on their word, arrest 2 people who had a only a tenous connection???
As for racial inequalities in Aruba, they maybe not as pronounced as the rest of the region including the US but generally same rules apply- the more money you have & the lighter your skin is, the more protected you are!
They said there was blood in the car right? Is it possible the dutch guy and his ‘posse’ dealt drugs and maybe she got sick and ODed? and they didn’t tell authorities?
What are the signs of an alcohol or drug emergency?
If you witness the following signs of an alcohol or drug emergency, act quickly and call 911 for help if you see any of these signs:
Check for:
* Unconscious and/or unresponsive
* Any trouble breathing
* Disorientation or stupor
* Panic
* Unable to stand /walk without help
* Bluish and/or cold to the touch
* Vomiting blood
* Vomiting related to drug ingestion
* Any injury + intoxication
* Convulsions
Ohhh man!.. I have a bridge to sell you !!!LOL
so many questions….only one life time…..
I do feel for bad Aruba as a whole. They are being overwhelmed by this. Esp. the media. I do not feel bad for the police or governmental officials. I have been trying to give them the benefit of doubt, but this constant retracting is just to much. There have been obvious leaks of information that had to be retracted once the information hit the press. At the same time there is some spinning going on concerning VDS. Personally, I think the leaks are correct, Natalee is dead, killed by VDS and his buddies. The police may even know where the body is. They just don’t know how to handle the press.
If VDS never confessed, which the press never said HE did, then one of the brothers broke down.
VDS lawyer is doing what defense lawyers do,offer thier clients the best defense they can afford (no offense to the lawyers on board). With his dad’s connections and him keeping his mouth shut, VDS may just get out of this. Stranger things have happened. I would’nt be surprised if he blames the two (brown) brothers.
Just my opinion.
Arubagirl,
On the similar topic of landfills.. what about commercial waste?
Are large trash bins (similar to those used in U.S. or around the world)
used in Aruba? [For example, bins large enough to dispose of a body?]..
Guy killed girl, guy and friends helped dispose of body. Simple as that guys. Only difference is that it will take the inept police in Aruba 3 months to figure out something I could have told you 2 weeks ago.
Fox just said a Justice Official said that was blood in the car but denies the wholeheartedly there was a confession or the location of a body.
Native………………..AMEN !!!
ahhh, thnx treated i guess….
Thanks ArubaGirl!
General question: Why are we all so convinced that the main subject should be van der Sloot and not the Surinamese brothers? I looked @ the pics from http://www.hasibokos.com/ and didn’t see any immages that were to out of the ordinary for these days and times. Am I missing something? (I probably am…someone fill me in….)
That’s why we’re know as “ugly Americans”…Jim.. I tip my hat to you!..
golden, I can’t imagine him getting away with it regardless of his money and influence. There is a lot more money to lose from pissing of Americans than there is from letting this kid off the hook.
Mordred, AGAIN….It was all part of the STRATEGY..smae as in the SCOTT PETERSON case… Let him go, feel comfortable, and watch what he does……
seriously, look at those guys, they look like sketchy dealers
Yes, well, I’m saying that the U.S. Media can’t handle a LE that doesn’t indulge them in the details of the investigation. It’s so easy to bash Aruba, and yet most if not all of the Aruban posters have been really really really good in not bashing any Americans on their culture, law enforcement, or other matters.
The fact of the matter is that YOU, Jim, do not agree with how the investigation is going. Wow, big effing deal. I don’t agree with the American trial system, but hey, it’s not my country! And when they hold Arubans for TWO YEARS without trial, I’m not going around on message boards bashing the States and their complete Law Enforcement. .
i read that the brothers were hindu, is that correct. it would be a against gods laws to kill someone….
Native and Arubagirl are right. That’s why the american reputation is sooooo crappy!
Googler……..Now don’t you think that this is one of the FIRST questions that was asked of these 3 boys ? If you don’t, you’re extremely naive. The next question asked was as a direct response to their answer to my first question………Who then can verify where you were between 2:00am and the next morning. I haven’t, to this minute, heard the answer to either of these, most salient questions.
I don’t think she was murdered, but that she is dead.
About large trashbins, they are mostly around hotels and some business. They belong to a specific business / hotel. It’s not as if they’re stashed just randomly in a lot of places.
JustW,
Based on the pictures I’ve seen on their websites, I’d say Joran appears like the leader. Even though he is the youngest. It might be that he has the money, the car, etc. Just a hunch.
the reason i focus on V/D sloot, is because, he is not one of the idiot savants, hold the savant, brothers, i mean come on look at these two masterminds and tell me they planned this
Rob,
And which religion says that killing is OK. Oh, and yes, one of the brothers’ web sites did say Hindi.
I don’t agree with the investigation. It looks sloppy, unorganized, and tons of information and retractions taking place.
You are right that our media likes information, but that is how our society is. We like to know what our tax dollars pay for, and to make sure that things are handled fairly. In America, crimes and police work are public knowledge, not only for the protection of the public, but to ensure that things aren’t being done corrupt. Those who hide information typically have something to hide.
anyone know if there will be any more press conferences tonight in Aruba??
Why do I care about what other people think of the United States? Taunts like “ugly American” are thinly veiled pretexts for “You have more money and privileges than we do, and we’re envious.”
Googler..all of them!!
satanism says it s A ok….
If Joran has the car, then he must be one of the biggest spoiled brats on Aruba, because he isn’t even allowed to drive yet. On the radio they said it was the brothers’ car.
I’m telling you that there is a drug link to this. I mean its Aruba… hello!
Something on Telearuba Live right now..
online..
http://127.0.0.1:5414/template.html?src=file://C:/DOCUME~1/JULIEI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/ram436.ram&mimeType=application/ram
Ronald, by that token, Jim’s opinion should not be all that valid about Aruba.
JUst now, on NBC-Channel 2, in Houston, Tx, they just showed video on TV of Joran speaking with Aruban Police and stating that “something bad happened” when they took the girl to the beach.
Jim, I pray that you are right, but all this spinning they are doing is making me dizzy. I can see this kid trying to blame the other two and depict himself as some sort of victim. I would love nothing more than to be totally wrong.
and again.. my point is made… only … this time thianks to Ronald..
Correction: Telearuba ONLINE
rtsp://209.88.129.57:554/encoder/Telearuba.rm?cloakport=8080,554,7070
pnm://209.88.129.57:7070/encoder/Telearuba.rm?cloakport=8080,554,7070
Oh, make no mistake: the two brothers will turn on van der sloot, and Joran will try to pin it on them.
John,
You’re right, nothing has been said. But, unlike the guards, their whereabouts wouldn’t be an alibi.
something bad is , you fell down and cant get up… not dead…
The week in review. Old stuff.
I’m certain they will try and turn this into an “accident”. Only problem is that when you have an “accident”, you don’t bury the body somewhere, lie to police about what you did with her, and implicate two innocent people. Too bad this isn’t Texas.
I just don’t think one can look at a picture and discern a person’s personality, mabye I’m wrong…but if he is so outwardly evil why would she go with him, and why would her friends allow it?
TOM –
Earlier, you said you were sitting on information that you couldnt confirm… IIRC. (So many posts!)
Why not make a list of the items you’ve received as info, and which you think are reliable, and just put into a post under the heading “RUMORED” – I don’t think we’re going to get anything from the Aruban gov’t at this point, and your info is probably the best out there, this site seems to be a focal point, so perhaps you can share…
Thanks for all the work youre doing moderating this, btw…
shower time…..see you all later
I believe that the initial reports are true (some type of confession and finding the body) but it was retracted due to the fact that our FBI will need to do a very intense and methodical investigation of the body and surrounding area. This could take hours and they certainly don’t need Geraldo flying around in helicopter with a megaphone while they do it. Having a body and a crimescene right now is more important then any “confession” that may have been made. After scrubbing the scene they can break these punks down more effectively.
Bengalbaby— Our world is run by the Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules. Besides, external criticism of this country is rarely even coherent or based on anything logical. Nine times out of ten, it’s bitterness and jealousy.
Sorry arubagirl, you’re right.
Thank GOD this isn’t TX.
The hell this was an accident.
au Contraire, Googler……….an “alibi” is nothing more than an excuse………it would certainly be an alibi………..just an “untrue” one !
jim that happened to my friend last summer..i was in aua when it happened
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04196/346094.stm
Hello she ODed and his crew is involved w/ drugs and they didnt want to get caught.
There is a lot more to van der sloot than a picture. If you read his web site, you would have been disturbed. A 17-year-old womanizer.
what do ya think of that? try thishttp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05125/499201.stm
treated im sorry to say this … but you have a drug problem….
JustW
Not evil. He just seems to be the active one. He is also taller, and I suspect, “bigger”. He is usually placed above them, and not just because he is taller. I just seems like body language. I could be wrong, but that is my guess
No I don’t , but I was around people like that when I was younger and saw people OD at parties all the time.
I find it hard to believe that these 3 low lives had the kind of “game” that would lure an alleged good girl like natalie out of a club.
Personally, I’m eagerly awaiting Joran Van Der Sloot’s attorney’s defense theories:
I can just hear it now……….
You’re going to sue my client because you say that his dog bit you.
A. The dog wasn’t outside that day.
B. The dog doesn’t bite.
C. My client doesn’t own a dog.
some friend you are … just lettin ppl kill’em selves…
Guys, I’m tired of defending Aruba’s honor. We’ll see what happens. Jim, I have to confess: We’re all corrupt drug-dealing prostitutes who like this media attention thing, and therefore we are prolonging this long national nightmare. It’s a wonder that we don’t all move to the U.S., as the cops are so competent, and never corrupt. In fact, the U.S. is a vertitable Utopia.
For the fellow Aruban posters, I congratulate you: You have way more patience than me.
Ronald, is that page still up?
peter seller…..
Not yet. Rick
I have thought about it and am concerned that some of the information that I have gotten may have been disinformation, or worse.
This iswhat has me bothered, and really bothered right now.
We have been a focal point and been in close contact with other sites that are getting reports that are very similar from other people. But not having the local knowledge is making me think I have been manipulated.
And to be honest, even if I am manipulated, the horror that I feel that friends and family had to endure has me freaked out. I know you get involved on my side you are taking risks, but why did the other blogs that are following this closely all get the same information at the same time and now nothing is happenning.
That is what has me bothered. I am not impugning the Arubans by any means, but there is a ton of information leading to a logical conclusion, and yet every avenue discussed just 5 hours ago are now put on hold?
So I am sitting here watching and thinking and wondering.
Long answer that should have been a short one, but I need to get my arms around it.
speak dutch to meeeeeeeeee
arubagirl, no need to defend. I think the news stories give us a good idea what Aruba is about.
John—pleading in the alternative is a staple of good lawyering. That’s how it works.
ARUBAGIRL –
There are probably hundreds if not thousands of people reading this blog and appreciate your entries. Most probably never post.
Anyway, the point is, dont let a handful of people turn you away from here when you are appreciated.
I don’t know whether van der sloot’s site is still up, but I heard that it was taken down.
ok if i don t go give my gf some attention i might turn up doa.. so i ll see you guys later.. good luck
ArubaGirl, You have been a great source of info for us all, and I thank you. Please don’t leave just because some (JIM), feel the need to frustrate the best source we,ve got. There are ignorant people all around the globe and, unfortunatly, they reign supreme in the mos affluent areas (those who also have the internet). Sometimes we all need to remember we are the same animal, only living in different environments.
Thanks for your help
Guys we have had over 30 thousand unique visitors today. so you all deserve a commendation.
Aruba girl , that would be over half of the Aruban population
arubagirl,
I know it’s hard to stop defending your home, but there are always folks who say things like that. If you respond you just encourage them.
TOM –
Thanks for the reply… I understand and appreciate where you’re coming from. So many people reading this, probably friends and relatives of the family too – so it makes sense you’d want to be as responsible as possible.
Is there anything youre sitting on or have received that you think has a decent possiblilty of being truthful that would lead us down an entirely new path, or pretty much along the lines of Joran & accomplices, just conflicting info on time/location/cause? – without actually sharing anything you’re not comfortable with, of course…
Thanks Aruba Girl. I hope this drama ends soon.
Aruba girl,
You have been an inspiration to me, you have toiled as hard as I have and provided a bridge to a world I can not understand.
Thank you
Tom
The media are failing us. Where is THE NEWS? A story needs news to survive. The media are spitting the bit.
Well, I must say that these inconsistencies are doing little to help the image we Americans have of the Aruban government, law enforcement, judicial system, etc., and I mean no disrespect to any Aruban citizens who post here. Still, I have to agree with another site, which links to this one, that the large news organizations have more to lose than blogs do, and they are all basically reporting the same thing. Perhaps last night was a case of revealing too much too soon. I have found my best clues in these facts: more FBI agents have arrived on the island, and Natalee’s mother is sequestered in her room, no longer able to bear the strain of this whole ordeal. I think all of us who are parents have a sinking suspicion what that means. Consider this: if you knew that withholding info about your child’s fate from the rest of the world would mean solidifying the case against her killers, or maybe have even greater implications, wouldn’t you keep your mouth shut, too?
ArubaGirl………..You’ve been a “Gem” through all of this ! You’ve had tons of patience .
Speaking for all, I thank you for providing all of the info that you were able to dig up……Though most won’t tell you, I’m sure that the DO appreciate all of it !
Rick
The only thing I had, and it could be disproved quickly is the Security guard angle. The Soul Festival had off island security guards working it, and the boys dropped the girl off at the hotel and they said they saw a security officer go to her, dressed in black. The 2 guards at the Allegro had a different uniform, while the concert guys were in black and were staying at the same hotel.
This could explain alot, or not. When the announcement of the confession I put this theory away, but what if…
This was all a smokescreen to get to the off island security people?
It is ludicrous, but everything is at this stage. Who would have thought that FOX and CNN would both botch the story so completely at different times.
Geraldo just gave a live update on Fox News. He says CNN report of confession and they are retrieving the body is false. He had an interview with the justice minister who said on camera that they found blood in the car. He did say that they didn’t know who the blood belonged to.
One thing of note, letting these kids go could have cost them a lot of crucial forensic evidence from the car and clothing of these kids.
Geraldo Live! Said will show video of those giving information – Just aired video of Cruez (not sure of his spelling now) – No Confession, No Body search last night, Blood was found in a vehicle.
The MSNBC report says Aruba has no forensics lab, that’s why FBI are being brought in. It also says there is nothing confirmed, at all, except that the three young suspects are apparently telling slightly different versions of the story, which leads investigators to believe someone is lying.
Rudy Croes is on tape with Fox saying that all they have is blood in the car, and not sure whose it is.
That is all they have, amazing.
to all those of you who think that the US does a better job handling disasters… tell that to those who lost loved ones in the 9/11 disaster… or the Waco disaster… or the Ruby Ridge disaster… etc… etc…. etc…
arubagirl… keep up the excellent work!
Ronald………..lol………..Good Show ! I practice law for a living and have done so for over 20 years now……….That was for nothing more than a bit of levity for the others……A bit of obvious sarcastic diatribe……..I see ZERO effective defense theory coming out of this…………and, rightfully so.
THANK you B-hammer…. I agree…
Well said, Pam.
It surely can only help that cable news keeps its light on this island until the perpetrator(s) are known.
Birminghammer—Are you attempting to draw a parallel between 9/11, a totally unprecedented event in world history, and a ROUTINE MURDER INVESTIGATION like the kind going on in Aruba?
Ronald.. Youre not listening….. that’s not what birminghammer said at all… Geez
Birminghammer, I totally agree. We are most certainly NOT perfect over here! Keep on keepin’ on, Arubagirl. You are a wealth of information, and extremely kind.
Yes it is, it was a comparision in investigation work. Arguably one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.
native lingo-
back from work-
read back on posts re scott and oj
I’m with you on the whole thing.
John—-Don’t be so sure. Good lawyering goes a very, very long way. There is no case that is either unwinnable or unloseable.
ronald – pres. Bush just admitted this week on national TV that the various intelligence agencies had information BEFORE the incident that, had they been working together, could possibly have prevented (or minimized) the attack…
What does 9/11 have to do with this case at all? I fail to draw any relevance.
Birminghammer…don’t even bother…they won’t get it!!
Actually Ronald, that’s your big miscalculation. A routine murder investigation on Aruba is different than in most U.S. cities. There’s no need for a crime lab or intensive CSI-type evidence collection, particularly under the European criminal law model. (Hint … it’s sort of friendly to the prosecution.)
Tom
That may go along with something MSNBC stated earlier today…
They said the statement given about the Security Guard/Guards at the HI that night was not denied, only that the two detained guards were not the ones being detained (not sure if this was stated by one of the lawyers or by an official).
When airing this, the reporter stated very clearly that the Security Guard at the HI story was not being denied.
Aruba Girl.. I live in the United States, we don’t think we are perfect. If we ever try to think that, all we have to do is ask what anyone thinks of us OUTSIDE the USofA.
We know what it’s like to have to always “defend” your position. Never give up.. you have a love of your home, as we do also.
And we are all smart enough to realize that just because there are some bad apples, doesn’t mean the whole orchard is rotten.
Have a great day….
http://groups.msn.com/FindNatalee/chat
really off topic…LOL…how did I ever miss this Levitra commercial? “If you have ___ over 4 hours, contact a physician.”
Someone tells me this has been running for over 6 months…
Birminghammer—-Again, attempting to claim, as you are, that the US has no authority upon which to criticize the Aruban investigation simply because the US government failed to predict 9/11–an event that was UNPRECEDENTED IN WORLD HISTORY–is absurd.
Don’t ever compare an unprecedented event like 9/11 with a standards murder investigation like the kind in Aruba.
i think everyone is so eager to know what happened….and criticing teh police force..but the polices primary job is not to tell us what happened…but to make a case that will stick…easy to find fault..but there is more here to consider than pressing the actual charge..one should bear in mind..they have the eyes of teh world on them now…and must have i’s dotted and t’s crossed…pressure to follow proper channels and be thorough
I told You!…. Right over the head!!…LOL…They don’t get it!….
Other than the obvious criminals that have perpetrated this tragedy, WHAT ABOUT THE WORTHLESS CHAPERONES? How in God’s name do you send 124 kids (KIDS!) on a foreign party trip with ONLY 7 CHAPERONES? This is the the most heinous part of the story – that is 17 kids per adult chaperone.
WHERE WERE THE CHAPERONES? WHO are they? In addition to frying the murderer(s) I hope and pray that each and every chaperone is hit with a wrongful death suit by Natalee’s family – these people (and probably the travel agent) need to pay dearly for this tragedy. How many adults chaperoned the kids when the 40 of them went out to this casino? Which adult chaperones were tasked with the duty of checking all the kids beds that night?
We live in a sick world full of predators just waiting to take advantage of kids like these. The adults who were responsible for supervising the kids are complicit in this tragedy and I hope they all pay dearly for their agredious and irresponsible behavior.
This whole story sickens me.
Ronald……..Your statement is true, however, the “key” word in your sentence was “GOOD”………..Three problems with that:
1. This will take Phenomenal “lawyering”.
2. Too much international interest……….will never happen (and I’m a betting man)
3. THIS attorney won’t be capable.
I guess the attornies in Aruba are as incompetent as the police now right?..
Mark—I ahve already said that the chaperones have a lot of moral–and perhaps legal–culpability.
My guess is that the chaperones went down there FOR THEMSELVES and used the pretext of chaperoning to justify it to themselves and others.
if there was foul play..wouldnt it be a travesty to everyone concerened and the publics safety…if the guilty party were let go becuase they didnt have their end in proper order.off on a technicality…i think its a shame people here are busy battling over whos police is better..its all so silly to make these far fetched comparisons..what is the point?
John—this attorney will probably not be the trial attorney. The kid’s father is a lawyer; he’ll have outstanding representation.
Comparing 9/11 to a simple murder investigation in Aruba. What a bunch of morons. You should apply for a position with Aruba Police, would fit in nicely.
Ronald – why should we accept your opinon as legitimate? What are your credentials that make you such an expert in criminal investigations?
S.taylor…Rather harsh…
Mark..I have wondered the same thing. Where were “bed checks” and “buddy systems”? How do you transport a large group of teens to an airport to depart a foreign country without doing a “head count” prior to leaving the hotel?
The chaperones are NOT at fault, and Natalee’s family agrees in this. They are good people, and we know them. The parents knew that the chaperones weren’t really chaperoning-they were there in case someone got hurt, or had some other kind of emergency. The parents knew that the only check in was at noon each day. We’ve had this trip here 3 years, and it has been ok, so the parents thought it would be this time, too.
Birmingham—because my opinion is the one that comports with common sense, whereas yours does not.
Attempting to draw a parallel between the difficulty of predicting 9/11 and the difficulty of handling a standard murder investigation is ridiculous.
lisabobeesa, exactly. We can find fault with anyone’s law enforcement and what does that solve? We can point fingers at who should have “let” her go or not and where does that get us. This is a terrible tragedy that could have just as well taken place at Disneyworld or some other destination in the US and I’m sure there would be those finding just as much to criticize the parents and law enforcement about. So sad that people from a country that are so friendly to us have to sit back and be pounded by insults.
Bengalbaby…………You missed the point. Try to follow the thread between Ronald and myself. What I was stating was in response to Ronald regarding the fact that IF a case comes to trial, the final “mountain-of-evidence” presented will be so overwhelming against the defendant(s) that the attorneys who have so-far spoken will, in all probability, not be able to overcome a potential guilty verdict. Rest assured, we haven’t heard one/one hundredth of the evidence already discovered………yet !
ya know Ronald… it’s really too bad that you have no clue as to the point birminghammer was trying to make. His point is very valid…
precisely…they’re all imperfect…
most trips like those require release forms by parents to teh school or organization….and i think the chaperones for people of this age is walking a fine line….the blame game doesnt get anyone anywhere….most of tehse kids would be living on own come sept…..embarking on lives independent of their parents…this is where line becomes fuzzier…
What kind of legal release did the parents sign? I hope the school’s coaches (chaperones/wives) had enough sense to be “relieved of liability” because the parents signed it away. It is possible that took place.
John… I follow your thread…. I think it’s wrong….I think youre jumping to conclusions about an investigation that you know nothing about….I didn’t miss any point… thank you
mbhs05
Are you a friend of this Familie’s?
Hey, Natallee was/is 18…legally an adult…she wouldn’t need her parent’s consent anyway…
John, don’t underestimate the lawyers, I personally know all three involved…. Iwould choose any of the three I I were in a mess like this .. they are GOOD!
There was a waiver. Like I said, the noon checks and no supervision was KNOWN. That there would only be 7 chaperones was known too. They were doing the job they were sent for-to be there just in case. They are very good people, and are not blamed by Natalee’s family-or anyone else in Mountain Brook.
No, I am not a friend of the family, but I do live here, and I have heard that much. I’m in Natalee’s class and I know who went on the trip.
The people of aruba were so fast to give themselves to search for a foriegner,Natalie, fearing someone local may had done her harm / injustice. In light of the injustice done to two of their own, the gaurds if still held, does anyone else wonder when a peaceful protest will be at the jail to encourage thier long overdue release ?
Ronald……..The “pool” from which to select one will be somewhat “limited”. This isn’t
a US case. This is, at this juncture in time, an Aruban case……which it truly should be.
mbhs05
Are you a 2005 graduate from Moutain Brook?
Birminghammer..
We are all imperfect……
http://groups.msn.com/FindNatalee/chat
mbhs05 – that is precisely the kind of lax lame mindset that gets kids killed. I’m sure non of the family are pointing fingers at chaperones at this point, and yes, I imagine they are all just fine and dandy upright citizens… never questioned that. But that does NOT diminish the responsibility of an adult chaperone. And still there is no reporting on that topic – are these adults being protected by the local media? Probably – Mountain Brook is an upscale exclusive community in Birmingham. This is a result of an overly liberal attitude, one that drives planning for such a trip so that underage kids can booze it up (along with the adults, I guess). What a moronic defense…
This was a tragedy waiting to happen; go ahead an make excuses for the chaperones – they still bear responsibility regardless of what you think.
i thinkthe idea of chaperones was more of a soft comfort representation..and not like taking a bunch of grade twoers to the zoo…more of an adult presence….but not a hand holding episode…parents would be naive to thik kids would not be taking advantage of lower drinking age ..and doing what all teens do worldwide when the graduate..celebrating! good grief…so many people preaching atop their mountains of perfection! so sad….lost in the sea of finger pointers….
My understanding of the trip is that is was NOT a school sponsored trip.
How did Geraldo get to replace the other guy? I thought he was just there to add “his special touch” (smirk)
m wood…yes I am a 2005 graduate from Mountain Brook. Natalee is part of my class. I did not go on the trip, just know the people who did. (My parents said it cost too much, and I didn’t argue…and I’m glad now that I didn’t go.)
How can you say that the chaperones were doing their jobs? If they were, this would not have happened. The job of a chaperone is to ensure APPROPRIATE NEHAVIOR of his or her charges. Leaving a nightclub at 130am with three STRANGE men is not “appropriate behavior.”
I think, Mark, I know a little more about that situation than you do. Chaperone is used for lack of a better word. They were not ever advertised as true chaperones, and certainly couldn’t be with 7 of them and 130 kids.
To mbhs05…
“The parents knew that the chaperones weren’t really chaperoning-they were there in case someone got hurt, or had some other kind of emergency.”
LIKE A KIDNAPPING AND MURDER? SO AGAIN… WHERE WERE THE CHAPERONES?
Bengalbaby…….What I DO know is that I’ve been practicing law in excess of 20 years. What credentials do you offer ?
the point is what we can all learn from this..as parents..and if we actually make changes based on what our new database of knowledge is…this iswhat matters most…
Mark, you really shouldn’t be bashing these people, mbhs05 is close to this story and he/she is only trying to give defense for others that are very close to this tragedy
minister cruz says not true /no body/no blood identified/ He said he just got his first report since 10 am today. Just on Geraldo. The min of justice should check scared monkeys to get updated quicker. He still thinks she may be alive.
That would be a miracle…sometimes they do happen
I never said I offered any CREDENTIALS….. we are talking about OPINIONS….. I guess your Opinions are better tahn others because youve been practicing law?… 20 yars…. Hmmm…. You win!…feel better now?
has anything else happened yet?
Mark, they knew when the regular check was called-before the plane left. They were never supposed to do bed checks. This is not a traditional trip. Get over it.
parents of these children..who were turning adults…were more than likely well informed as to what the number of “chaperones” was….and therefore could do the math..and realistically translate that into what the term chaperone meant….its obvious 7 chaperones and 124 kids..your kids arent on harnesses….
They thought Elizabeth Smart was dead.
THanks m wood. I’ll be back later…dinner. Everyone STOP bashing the chaperones. If Natalee’s family and friends don’t blame them, then you sure shouldn’t. They did the job they were “hired” to do.
I agree that there are no credentials in this debate. This is a discussion of the human condition, and I know nothing more about that on account of having gone to law school.
I find it hard to believe that parents actually sent their children (18…but still their children) off on a trip with chaperones understanding that the only involvement the chaperones would have would be a “noon check” each day. I too am a HS teacher who has chaperoned senior trips and I can assure you that this was NOT my only job on these trips (whether school sponspored or not). If that was the only responsibility of the chaperones then why have them go along?
Natalee’s parents might nto blame the chaperones YET, but just wait.. Time has a way of changing opinions.
I just feel that the Arubans are taking ahuge hit here with all this talk about what the US would do…We need to see how this all turns out. Don’t be so quick to judge other ways of doing things just because you have a law degree and have been practicing for years… have you practiced in Aruba?…
Actually, Bengalbaby, I haven’t see you offer anything other than specious rhetoric & destructive criticism. At a minimum, I try to offer an “educated guess”, based upon my education, background and experience.
I certainly hope “hired” does not mean these “adults” actually got their trip paid for!!
As noted in my earlier posts, I agree wholeheartedly with Mark. Parents who allow their children to attend such an event aren’t naive, they are negligent. Period. I have posted some harsh comments about who is to blame for Natalee’s fate (mainly her parents and the chaperones), and I stand behind them, but mbhs05, you made my point better than I ever could. No nightly room checks, underage drinking, chaperones who were really “chaperoning”…Alabama DHR should be investigating every family who allowed their child to participate in this trip. No child’s life is worth the thrill that some parents get from watching their child play “grown up”. If your parents did not allow you to go, then they have my praise.
Leave the chaperones alone, people. None of these kids were going to have chaperones at the various colleges they’ll be attending in a matter of weeks. Tuscaloosa is way, way more dangerous than Aruba … as are many college towns. These are 18 years olds, not babies.
A guess..Im trying to get people like you to see another point of view… that’s all..please don’t just assume that I don’t know what Im talking about…
For the record, Mountain Brook is NOT a liberal community. It is EXTREMELY conservative and EXTREMEMLY religious. These are rich kids we’re talking about. Think OLD money. Their Daddies work 60 hours a week, their Mommies have breast implants, and the kids are all on Zoloft and Adderall.
i think the more relative point to the chaperone commentary and opinion polls is that every student going on the trip went with parents blessing..no parent could think 7 people could possibly closely monitor 124 teenagers..if i kid was sent..it was done with parents consent…what any of us thinks is totally irrelelvant..best we all tend our own sheep….
Kelly’s right. You think there are chaperones at frat parties? Please.
If the report about Joran’s phone being tapped while he was released are true, then it’s certainly possible he ‘confessed’ on the phone, (read: implicated himself) – yet didn’t confess to authorities in the legal sense.
Police Commissioner Dompig said there was a confession – this was reported by AP and CNN and NEVER RETRACTED… The only person claiming ‘no confession’ is Joran’s new attorney. Both could be right…
Hello mbhs05…out of curiousity, what did this trip cost? I suppose most people must have thought this trip was libation and lying out at the pool and on-the-beach. As you said, “I’m glad you didn’t go.”…and after reading the Natalee Holloway story here and elsewhere, I wish she hadn’t gone either.
What a waste of a potentially great life…and by a bunch of attention-seeking thrill-seekers.
# mbhs05 Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
m wood…yes I am a 2005 graduate from Mountain Brook. Natalee is part of my class. I did not go on the trip, just know the people who did. (My parents said it cost too much, and I didn’t argue…and I’m glad now that I didn’t go.)
Absolutely Kelly. I had concerns about a 16 year old girl that I know being unsupervised, living with her 18 year old boyfriend and his mother, concerns about sexual activity being allowed and I called child services. I was told that at 16, age of consent, they would not get involved. I can’t imagine the reply one would get for calling in parents that “allowed” their 18 year old high school graduates to go to Aruba.
Talk about stereotyping, Hoover.
well said, Lisa…
John … you’re such a typical lawyer. Unless you’ve got some special expertise in Dutch criminal law, your opinion is really no better than anyone else’s. Your credentials apparently are just an excuse for you to talk down to people.
I’m still waiting to hear what you DO have to say………..Speak up . I’m willing to listen to anything at this point.
mbhs05
Why in earth did the girlfriends who saw her leave with the three boys allow her to go?
Kelly, I agree totally! When I was 18 I went to Spring Break at Daytona Beach with some friends. I a lot of things there that my parent’s wouldn’t have approved of (and my dad was a pastor!). When you’re 18, you’re an adult! Shoot, when you’re 18 without parent’s consent you can sign up to go get shot at in Iraq!
Ive said it already… follow mythread John!…Geez
Thank you kelly…
I’m not bashing the chaperones, I am simply asking the question no one else seems to care much about. Whatever. Making excuses for the adults who were in charge is simply the kind of shocked denial one would expect at this point – all those questions will be eventually asked and addressed.
During my high school trip to Hawaii, all us 18 yr olds were still respected as children who required a modicam of supervision. I recall some of us sneaking a six-pack of Coors one night, and we got nailed and reprimanded and our parents took action when we got home. But every 5 or so of us had a parent or teacher responsible for us in the a.m. and checking on us at night… I suppose that sounds very old-fashioned to you. None of us got hurt, many of us bitched and moaned… but we were KIDS and no adult on the trip was willing to put us in harms way. My my how times have changed. Aruba is a major point of entry for the drug trade and $$ laundering. Feel free to absolve the adults (coaches & wives? – good grief) of any and all responsibility – “Oh they are good people” never said otherwise… except for the fact that they helped get an innocent girl killed. No biggie…
My mind is racing…but I wonder..did it occur to anyone else this week, while we were waiting for the REAL murderers to finally be arrested, if the reason for our wait was that somebody, somewhere in the Aruban goverment was trying to decide which was more lucrative: the drug (or sex slave) trade, or the tourism industry?
TLHS – I heard an interview with another student who saw Natalee leave the bar. She said she smiled and waved goodbye. Wasn’t falling-down drunk.
Assuming that’s true, then Joran probably would have seemed like a ‘safe’ kid they met playing poker the night before… and red flags wouldn’t have been raised, especially since everyone at C&C was almost certainly drinking/drunk. (At the bar the essentially pour shots down everyone’s throats.)
To my knowledge their are no Drug Lords and Sex Slave operations running out of US college towns(maybe some drug deliveries), therefore the need for chaperones at Frat Parties is not even a good arguement!! Please do not compare this un-chaperoned trip to a foreign country with that of a Frat Party…..
To whomever made this (irrelevant) point.. These “kids’ would not be on an adult sanctioned “booze cruise’ in 2-3 weeks (when they entered college) Albeit, drinking is common at college, the legal age to buy booze in the US is age 21. Therefore, the issue of whether these kids need chperones is moot. Of course they needed chaperones. Unfortunately, these were not.
“they helped get an innocent girl killed”?
Goodnight … where do you learn to say outlandish things like that?
Oh Pam please……are you for real????
Frat parties are worse!…. How many times have we heard about students dying from alcohol poisoning….
I would venture to bet there were more deaths by alcohol poisoning and more rapes at colleges and frat parties in the US last year than in Aruba.
MazRad, the point is, this could happen anywhere — it’s not particular to Aruba — and the amount of drinking and lack of chaperoning, I assure you, is no worse than it is at a large frat party in Alabama.
thrillseeking…? its funny the choice of adjectives people use when they preach to others and sit in judgement. “after the fact”…..there is nothing ulterior or odd about facilitating a love of travel in your children….why must it get twisted now and turned into something dirty..kids party whether they go to aruba or not…to think otherwise is naive… hindsight is 20/20… but blanket stereotyping of this type of trip is plain wrong and makes all those condemning it look downright silly!
Oh yeah, there was a girl at my college that was raped and set on fire in her own dorm room after a party…
Ok–so catch me up someone . . . . stories really still conflicting as to whether she’s been found or not???
Bengalbaby…………..All I’ve seen, after reading your recent threads is that :
A. S>Taylor-Rather Harsh
B. Too Bad Ronald that you haven’t a clue
C. I disgree with you, John
You haven’t said Anything regarding your opinion whatsoever……….you’ve just criticized everyone elses !
While I think that what Pam wrote is better suited for one of those tin-foil hat conspiracy blogs, it is getting a bit annoying to read in every press statement from Aruba how wonderful a place it is to visit and how ‘rare’ things like this are… Enough of the sales pitch – consistent information flow and speedy discovery would be far more reassuring IMO…
I can’t believe that with the FBI involved that these three kids didn’t roll on each other within a few hours. I also wonder if they brought down lie detector gear, or if Aruba has decent equipment.
Lisa…you mentioned the girl missing from Jamaica. There is a story on FOX right now about a girl missing from Negril…is that the girl you were talking about?
The point is, do not compare the two! Please see that there is an extreme difference……you know what to expect at a Frat party, you generally know some of the crowd, the laws, the consequences……….you do not however, in a foreign country!!!!
Yes, it is a stereotype and only accurate in general. But it should be made clear that Mountain Brook is not, as someone claimed in this thread, a “liberal” community. This is Alabama, for God’s sake. The only “liberal” communities are black.
Xenophobia is the word for the day. Just because they went to a foreign location doesn’t mean that it’s more dangerous than a college campus. I stand by my point that most college campuses are more dangerous than Aruba.
As sad and heartbreaking as this is, the up side is that it is bringing national and international attention to the plight of other families with missing children. FOX has just shown pictures of at least two other young American women that are missing. The parents of Claudia Kirshhock are being interviewed now. She went missing in Jamaica 5 yrs. ago.
Natalee’s mother should be conmended not only for her committment to her own daughter, but for the spotlight she has put on missing women.
aparently you haven been here that long then…. I said….. for the THIRD TIME… please don’t condemn the police and attornies in Aruba… unless you practice there and know exactly what your are talking about…let them do their job…. stop sounding like the U.S. can do such a better job..that’s what I said… that’s my OPINION….Im sorry I don’t have a law degree….
Kelly………….You’re absolutely correct !!!
I’ve been to Aruba – -it’s not some big, scary ‘foreign country.’ It’s a small, friendly island in the Caribbean. Teens do the same things there they do all over the South.
Kelly –
Bad defense. Of course there would be no chaperones at college in the US… except for the massive institutions and college rules. Frats and sororities have liability, campus police regularly monitor and enforce rules/laws. To say that the chaperones are not at fault given the fact that they’d be off to college “un-chaperoned” is not the point (that is obvious)… we are talking about KIDS who have yet to leave home for college, visiting a foreign nation and able to booze it up where it is legal for an 18 yr old to do so (or unenforced – not sure of Aruban laws).
All this cover for the chaperones will only make things worse for future trips. You watch. I want to hear a detailed accounting by each and every “chaperone” as to where they were that night, I want to hear all the justifications for why is to OK to allow KIDS to roam unsupervised on foreign soil. I want to hear the explanations and excuses. This will be on their consciences for the rest of their lives… or so I hope.
Kelly, I agree with you 100%
NativeLingo….. there we have the Bill oreilly fan
Hoover Hank, we are not all completely conservative…I mean we have a VERY active Young Democrats Club, and my parents are certainly not staunch Republicans. Most of us are religious, but not in the dogmatic, follow the leader way. And we aren’t all a bunch of rich kids with old money. My parents are not from here, and my Dad works HARD for his money. He moved here with my mom when I was born (from Birmingham Southside-they’re from South Alabama originally) to make sure his kids got the best schools. We’re not a bunch of rich, lazy freaks.
And Whitney: The last report I had as to the cost of the trip was in January and it was $1400. I don’t know if that price changed or not. But I do know that many parents have that extra money to give their kids a senior trip…and there’s nothing wrong with that.
are we beating a dead horse here? the ratio of 7 chaperones hardly would be mistaken as true chaperoning of 124 kids…so the relative point here is..the kids who went ..went because this was understood…no one was forced to go…good grief..its not about absolving guilt ..its plain common sense for goodness sakes
If my daughter (who is only 10 at this time) were to go away to college at OU, I would not know any of the crowd attending any frat party she might attend. Many would be from out of state and not many (if any) from her high school. I would know that the drinking age is 21, but I would also know that kids don’t abide by that in college. I would know that to rape and kill someone is illegal and punishable by life in prison or death in my state, but I would also know that it may not deter someone from doing it. What is the difference?
“Campus police regularly monitor and enforce rules/laws.” Are you kidding? When was the last time you were on a college campus?
It is not that the country is MORE dangerous it is all about knowing your surroundings.
Let me do it for you this way……I would get wasted at the local bar, but would I go down to Lower Wacker(chicago) and drink with the Bums?????
I used to live in Mountain Brook – I am well aware of what the area is like. Not the point.
I personally believe such a trip should REQUIRE the “kids” to still observe U.S. laws… kids under 21 should never be allowed to use alcohol. Period.
You know, honestly, the chances of a teenager dying in a car accident, getting alcohol poisoning, etc. are WAY more likely than what happened to Natalee. I still think something went wrong at the beach…either she acidentally drowned or OD’d, or the Dutch guy got angry and couldn’t control himself.
Again, car accidents, drunken frat party incidents…way more likely.
Kelly, I also agree
Mark, We’ll email the Aruba Officials and request that you be invited when they question the Chaperones.
Doesn’t seem like you’d cross state lines, filled with the fear of anyone different from you as you appear to be.
Bengalbaby………..i have NEVER condemned the Aruban authorities whatsoever, over the entire time that I have been here. My entire point, to date, is, was, and will continue to be, that at “the end” of the investigation I firmly believe that a conviction by the Aruban government, will be a “slam-dunk” for the prosecution, of the responsible party or parties, and that G*d himself won’t win an acquittal for the guilty party or parties. I have no problem whatsoever with the Aruban police, government, island or citizens………….I LOVE this place !!!
kerri…yes the girl disappeared in negril….very sad..never a trace of her….there was media hype here too….but no FBI or anything….until after the critcial time period…there was same scenario playing out..she was here partying at nights like most young peopel do…and somethingwent wrong..also involvements with males form island…but no conclusive evidence
Maybe IT IS him….
“Why in earth did the girlfriends who saw her leave with the three boys allow her to go?”
Because they were likely impaired in their judgement due to being DRUNK.
Alcohol + kids = Big Trouble X No Adult Supervision = DEATH
chloe2 Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 8:29 pm
Doesn’t seem like you’d cross state lines, filled with the fear of anyone different from you as you appear to be.
Who was this directed at?
You MazRad.
“CHAPERONES” – Enough already! The parents knew the deal when they sent their kids down there. This wasnt the first time kids from the school went to Aruba before graduation. Everyone knew there’d be drinking and they knew there had been no problems with previous trips.
Kids can get hurt ANYWHERE – in any bar in the US, at any frat party, walking down the street. 99.999% of the kids partying in Aruba come home without incident and that’s at least as safe as any prom night partying that Im sure your High School kid participated in. I’m sure many hundreds of kids die each year in drunk driving incidents following their proms. So what? Ban proms? Sue the adults who were present at the prom?
Give this topic a rest please. It will only go in circles and folks coming here to discuss the (probable) murder of Natalee most likely arent interested.
We already drove away Arubagirl, one of the few who actually knew something…
I’m just tired of hearing her friends and the chaperones abused…that’s not what they need right now, and they did nothing wrong. The trip was taken at face value-everyone knew how it was going to go. It isn’t their fault.
Lisa…very sad. I just returned yesterday with my family from Negril (taking my son and his friend for their senior trip…plus my 16 yr old daughter) and found it to be a very beautiful place. We were in a villa with 24/7 security but we always felt safe whether on the property or on the beach, in town, etc.
Amen Rick!
lisabobeesa & Kelly -
just curious… how old are you?
Could be lol …..
Rick, where is arubagirl?
Not to beat a dead horse…but the reporter on FOX just said “I would love to know what the chaperones were doing on this trip”.
KerinTX is Geraldo still on Fox tonight?
A reporter from Aruba’s newspaper DIARIO said on Fox’s Greta Van Susteren program earlier this week that Joran had been said, from several sources, to have “anger management problems.”
I presume that means he was in trouble with the law or school and had to get professional help, or was punished in some way.
There is also the confirmed report that Joran got into a shoving match/fight with some of Natalee’s friends in Aruba.
Does anyone have any more information on his ‘anger management’ problems??
Reading about that, along with the photo of the half-naked kid with the belt tied around his neck – Joran holding the belt – gave me the creeps.
Thank You Rick!
Native, she signed off a while back. She was defending Aruba alone I guess
Bengal…not right now but if he reappears I will hit the OFF button.
Ah, well then Chloe…..seeing as you seem to pass judgement like you know me, I will tell you that your statement re: Frat parties and this unchaperoned trip to foreign country prompted me to type after 2 days!!! You must be very young and naive yourself or you just like to see your self talk. The whole point was that this trip SHOULD have been supervised. To think otherwise is ignorant! and to compare the stats on car accidents is not even relevant!! These children should have been supervised in a foreign country. PERIOD
Native – Too many people were making idiotic comments about Aruba, the people, police, news – without benefit of actually knowing anything – and she grew tired of repeatedly defending her country… She was here to share info and discuss the investigation…
Why are the chaperones even an issue? The girl was 18. She was an ADULT. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
yes geraldo is still on fox tonight
hallelujah on topic rest! But this is a forum of expression and its something debateable…so i guess it is worthy. Wasnt aware we drove away arubagirl….or that she told us anything that we didnt already know….
it will be interesting to see what comes from all of this…to have so much FBI involvement has me wondering why? are Natalees family connected to a US senator, or was this rumor?
Bengalbaby………….Are you there ?
but he was not asking very many questions, just confirming the denials from the aruban justice minister
Yes John…Iam
FBI can become involved anytime an American goes missing—of course have no jurisdiction in Aruba—but are there to inform the US, monitor and assist.
Yawn… (again with the chaperones)..
An 18-year old can legally travel to any foreign country and can legally drink in places where the drinking age includes 18 year olds.
It’s really getting old hearing people blame the so-called chaperones for what is likely a murder by a local boy, which could have happened anywhere.
If a ‘chaperone’ said, “Natalee, we think you shouldnt get in the car with that fellow you met yesterday” – I suspect she would have said ‘Dont worry’ and there wouldnt have been anything the “chaperone” could have done anyway.
Please – enough of this..
Ok……….lol………..Just checkin……….
She’ll be back….
lol…. you didn’t scare me away yet!!…Good arguement too BTW!…
Amen, Rick.
I have to say the only fault here remains with the people who did the deed. I really could have happened anywhere. BUT how the arubuan government handles this in terms of seeing justice done will say alot.
mark..im 38…
kerri….how nice that you enjoyed negril….i live in Montego Bay…but will be headig to negril with my kids tomorrow…its a beautiful beach…negril is more rootsy…some all inclusives have heavy security..but alot of more cabiny type resorts there..rootsy vibesy…more relaxed…which resort did u stay at???
I was just checkin………..I went to sit down and found it painful………….after that big “butt-chewing” that you gave me…………lol
I anxiously await the lynching of the murders. But I want to hear fromt he chaperones.
If you are 21 or younger and posting here… talk to me in 10 years.
Lisa, not only to congressmen, but to the folks in the big white house as well. (fact), not that there’s nothing wrong with that…….more power to them….
Lisa…we stayed at MoonDance Villas. We have already booked our return trip for next summer.
Hey,,, Thanks!.. Im from NY… I can ‘butt-chew” with the big boys!!…LOL No hard feeling..
native lingo-
I think alot of aruban people are praying at a mass at the santa cruz church.
RICK,
I would never place blame on the “hired” help. Merely wanted people to stop acting as if 140 kids unchaperoned, fresh out of high school, was a wise decision, based on frat parties.
Plleeaassee . . . . .enough about the chaperones. Can you spell d-e-a-d-h-o-r-s-e-???
youre inb Aruba right Friend of mickey john?
Tom – Red : I have been out for a few hours and I see that Arubagirl, Native nor Gabriel have not been on for a while but when I turned on MSNBC they seemed to be suggesting or putting a slant on as if Natalee were “being held somewhere” ..was the term they used. Did something come out or is this just more media urban legend nonsense?
LOL@John….i have some aloe vera plants in my garden..they are very soothing on open wounds…! hahaha
To Hoover Hank:
Do you really live in Hoover Alabama? If so, it must be near a different Mountain Brook than I know. Sure, it has it’s share of affluent families, but I would guess that at least 40% of them are “upper-middle class” and below. And conservative? My experience says that they are about 50/50.
Keep in mind that the whole world is reading these posts. Please don’t stereotype Mountain Brook like that. The parent’s of the Mountain Brook students aren’t really any different (demographically) from Hoover, Vestavia, Spain Park, Greystone or many other neighboring towns around here.
Yes, metro Birmingham has many families that are blessed financially. But that doesn’t mean that these same parents don’t care deeply about our kids. My neighbors let their kids race boats, go rock climbing, drive fast cars and participate in many, many other activities that could kill them at any time. One of them lost a son just a few years ago playing football… But my point is that we (the parents) do think long and hard about the risks involved. Let me assure you that I only let my daughter do “dangerous activities” after I have given it a lot of thought and have decided that she can handle the risk in a responsibile way.
Do kids let you down sometimes when they are placed in these positions? Yes. But usually they don’t, especially if the parents have done their job.
The parents would not be so successfull if they were morons. And as for all the moms “having implants”. I only wish it were so…
Can you spell D-E-L-A-Y-E-D R-E-S-P-O-N-S-E???
Bengalbaby………..Never a hard feeling over a “spirited” discussion. ……lol……..
(normally, these would be billable hours, dammit….lol )
Watchit with the ‘implants’ stuff!!…LOL
MBHS05-
Was Lindsey Hart on this trip??
bengalbaby-
No I live in MA.
See my opninion is Free!!!…worthless…but free none the less… I just love Aruba… Go there allll the time.. I didnt’ want it to get bashed is all
LISA……………..lmao (Where is that aloe, just when I need it)
Mark … I’m 30.
There are masses in all the churches over the island right now
Rick->”If a ‘chaperone’ said, “Natalee, we think you shouldnt get in the car with that fellow you met yesterday” – I suspect she would have said ‘Dont worry’ and there wouldnt have been anything the “chaperone” could have done anyway.”
Wow what a bold statement, then why in the hell were the chaperones there in the first place? First of all, those kids should have never been in a bar drinking. And if I was chaperoning I sure as hell would not let these kids out of my sight especially in the wee hours of the morning knowing that it was my responsibility to bring them back home alive and well. I would not even be able to sleep at night.
Migration to a new post time will commence in about 5 minutes. The kids are in bed and I even remembered to feed them this time. 440 post is big enough for one .
Still here gaijin
I have heard alot about websitess for jaron. . . Can anyone let me know what they are?
From an Aruban legal perspective, what will happen to the party(ies) found guilty? Is it very different from the US ie:jury,trial,sentencing?
I think most of jaron’s own websites were closed down weren’t thye?… anyone know that for sure?
Tom-
Maybe you should hire a “chaperone” to feed the kids’… LOL
Heard earlier today that the trial is by judge(s)–not jury. No death penalty. punishment for murder is 20 to life.
gaijin
At this point I am beginning to treat every piece of news as urban myth. Can’t seem to find anything out new. I am actually pretty peeved that these types of stories would come out two days in a row. I mean come on, someone obviously said something to some one that the media ran on. Or the media just made it up? Either way it is a sick and cruel joke to play on the family. Although we have had people state “allegedly” that the family has been told bad news. Anyway, I feel for them being played like pawn as people leak stories and then take them back.
I just keep falling back on the notion, can it be so simple as an accidental death or accidental murder. Why are their FBI there and more came today? Makes no sense. My creative mind starts to think that there is a greater issue here. I just don’t know. News has come to a standstill and we all wonder what to report and what not to.
good one Maz!… they will probably forget though!!
The level of US involvement in this case is interesting in light of the number of US citizens who go missing abroad. Something like 10 thousand a year, according to a recent report I saw on one of the news channels.
It is difficult to avoid reflection on this amid the continuing statements, retractions, denials, and conflicting reports.
Tila -
Natalee was LEGALLY drinking in Aruba. A chaperone cant prevent her from drinking, they all went there to party, as had previous classes…
I suspect the adults were there to look after the money, pay for the hotels, organize excursions and provide *some* supervision, maybe even just enjoy their time with their kids before they went to college.
Blaming the chaperones for the kids LEGAL behaviour is idiotic.
Suggest we all put aside all bickering and non-relevant chit-chat.. and let’s all concentrate on finding Natalee.
HELP SOLVE THE MYSTERY!
QUESTION TO ALL: Put yourself in the culprit’s shoes. (1) If you picked up the victim (and you never actually took her out to the beach — as they “said” — i.e. they never went to drop of Natalee at the Holiday Inn as they “said” [according to video sureveillance cameras]). which way would you go? (2) Back to your apartment/house? (3) SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS.. then what would you do? Stuff her in the trunk? Where would you hide the body?? [[ Those on the island will have the advantage on this question. ]]
Just post your ideas and suggestions — maybe, just maybe, we can help find Natalee!!
That’s right VirginiaDA
Tila, while I am not condoning the kids being in a bar drinking, I must say that…they were 18. In a country where it is LEGAL to drink at age 18.
I was 18 once too, and back then, it was legal to drink in Louisiana at age 18. When I went to visit my grandmother the summer I turned 18, you’d better believe I was at the bars with my friends.
I think it is easy to point fingers and blame, but the fact of the matter is that we’re talking about TEEN AGERS! Even the best kids do sneaky things every now and then. I have 2 small children. I would love it if, when they are older, they were perfect angels. But I’m sure we’ll have our fair share of teenage angst, as most parents of teens do.
Even with the best of chaperones, you can’t tell me that kids won’t find a way to sneak booze into their rooms, sneak out of their rooms, etc. Teens will be teens.
University of Missouri in my town, attend and work there. “Campus police regularly monitor and enforce rules/laws.” – I assure you this is not the case!
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