RSSNatalee Holloway: How the Laws of the Netherlands Work
Most Americans who are watching the Natalee Holloway disappearance in Aruba are trying to understand the legal process that is happening . We understand the laws of the United States, and are confused by the procedures that are going on in Aruba.
So it was my good fortune to receive an email from a gentleman in the Netherlands who took the time to research and explain the laws of the Netherlands that the Aruban government follows. Here is the email in full,
Hello Tom,
I am from the The Netherlands, however from a family of expats, so the Antilles are not unfamiliar.
The explanation I gave has to do with regular cases here in The Netherlands. For instance, if you are arrested for shoplifting you can be detained by the police for 24 hours. Within that day the DA has to decide what to do with you, press charges or give you a fine (common).
This is something different. The security guards were arrested on the now well known charges and because this is an serious case (strafzaak) in which foul play is suspected they can be held up to 90 days without trail. This is where the ‘judge’ gets involved. This is common in cases where the DA (officier van justitie) has some doubt about the involvement of those two guys. The DA will then request that an special judge reviews the case and make a decision.
These judges ‘rechter commissaris’ will review the case again and if needed hear the witnesses/accused and the DA. If the judge is conviced that something serious has happend he or she can order your detention for approx. three months.
To make matters a little more compicated is this. As an witness to the event your are not obligated to make a statement. You can refuse this. However, with all this mediapressure, you can make yourself suspicious by doing so. When this case is going to trail, and if you are called by the DA or the defense-attorney to make a statement you cannot refuse. (there are exeptions).
That is why I am litte annoyed by comments that the DA is a slacker. This is not the case. Dutch law states that your are innocent unless proven guilty by the court (and up to two appealcourts in the NL and 1 in the EU). The DA has to work with what he/she gets from the police. If they cannot find anything that links you to the case, that is physical proof or good witnesreports, you are free to go. Furthermore I cannot remember a case in the Netherlands where a judge or a DA is sentenced or investigated for corruption of any kind.
So what to read in this arrest of the witnesses? I really don’t know. It can be ordered by the DA to prevent them leaving the Island, but then the rules of resonable supicion come in to play and a case must be made fast. So we’ll have to wait and see if the rechter commissaris makes an appearance once again.
This gets more complicated because two of the guys (students) are from suriname. This former dutch protectorate is independed since 1975 and therefore a partner in this investigation. The suriname justicesystem in based on the dutch one, but unlike the former colonial motherland severly under stress because of allegations of corruption and lack of real power.
Finally I must say this. I can be wrong because of the distance between The Netherlands and Aruba. I cannot stress this enough. If you like you can post this as extra information, maybe someone with more knowhow about the dutch law (a master in the rights/ lawdegree) can update my information and/or correct this where needed.
Gerben
Thank you for the information Gerben, I feel that you have helped many people today understand what is going on and cleared up some of the confusion.
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56 Responses to “Natalee Holloway: How the Laws of the Netherlands Work”
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Joran is finally in jail where he belongs, we are making definite progress in this case. The son of the Judge can’t get daddy to pull strings for him any longer, time for the punk to face the music and be hauled into court to face some serious charges.
Also, Carlos And Charlie’s is not off the hook yet, we still need a full investigation into their management, employees, business practices, and a full audit of their books.
To Everyone interested in the Natalee Holloway case
Everybody interested to tune it at today’s press briefings in Aruba, can tune it at noon.
At 12 PM or is it AM?, anyway it’s at noon.
You can listen live online http://www.arubadag.com or http://www.promoaruba.aw
You know you are such a fucking asshole who wrote that above. YOU are probably the male sociopath who raped and murdered Natalee.
YOU are obviously a rapist and a murderer.
Signed,
The real Kortnie, not the sociopath wanna-be!
P.S. You just LOVE taking it up the ass, don’t you?!!
TOM AND RED – YOU REALLY HANDLE YOUR SITE WELL HERE. I OUGHT TO SUE YOU FOR LETTING SOME CREEP COME ON HERE AND USE MY NAME. IN FACT, I’M GOING TO LOOK INTO IT.
PEOPLE!! Get over it.
Kortnie, we have all figured out who you are and who makes the disgusting comments as you – please do not threaten Tom and Red, I know they try to keep everything on the up and up!!
It is so sad that trolls keep hitting a site dedicated to finding a missing woman with personal attacks – but I have been on other sites and the trolls feed there too.
OK, YOU SICK CREEP, NOW YOU’RE SLANDERING JILL AS WELL.
I PITY YOUR POOR MOTHER WHO BROUGHT SUCH A SOCIOPATH INTO THE WORLD.
I HOPE YOU DIE TODAY! JILL DOES TOO!
WHO, MRS.RED, WHO IS IT?
THE REAL KORTNIE, AS YOU CAN TELL FROM MY COMP. INFO
WHO IS THE SICK CREEP?
It’s not “People” – it’s specific individuals.
Why can’t you ban them?
I see you just deleted the first post here directed at me to harass me.
I hope you will delete the rest.
What’s happening here to me as a female being verbally sexually abused by a sick male creep on this site is exactly what happened to Natalee, just on a smaller scale.
It’s all about male abuse of women. Very common. And this sicko on the site is just proving my point!
Kortnie
I have a life. I can not sit over the site 24/7 to make sure that you are not offended.
I am doing the best that I can, but I think for your own sanity that you leave because we can not provide a 100% safe environment for you.
tom
That’s a shame, Tom. So, the sick perp wins and I go, just like the sick perp(s) who abused Natalee win? Except, she has to die.
Y’know Tom, I suggest that you take some Women’s Studies courses because you obviously don’t comprehend the abuse that women go through in this world at the hands of men. EVEN THOUGH IT’S HAPPENING ON YOUR OWN SITE!
That is a shame.
“Offended?” You don’t think I should be “offended” by some sick male creep who steals my name and makes sexually harassing comments as me? You don’t think I should feel “offended?” My God, what’s wrong with you?
Hey Gang…What’s happening at the news conference.
If you are unable to protect female visitors to your site from harassment , then you should not have a site.
Period.
We are liveblogging over on another post
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1089
Kortnie,
I honestly have to step in here, I have tried defending you and so have Red and Tom. My eailer point was that all of the sane people here know when you make a “real” comment and when it’s fake. The writing says it all.
NO one in this group – Red, Tom, Me or the true concerned others – think attacks against women are in any way not to be punished. HOWEVER – having said that – you have made some pretty strong anti-male comments. I understand that you have been hurt but there are a lot of really good men out there who do not deserve any bashing- just like women don’t.
Of course, I personally know Red and Tom – but I can assure you no two guys are better when it comes to wanting to protect women!!
You just have to stop feed trolls and focus. The words may sting but they can’t physically hurt you unless you let them. Don’t confuse the fact that they both can’t control everyone with the fact that as a woman, you can rise above it!!
I would like to thank TOm for his hard work to run this site. It is not easy. I too have been offended by and discriminated against (age-discrimination) but this is not Tom’s fault…I hope we all apreciate his efforts.
It is obvious to me his is ding a great job…
Thank you, Tom
Jill Says:
June 9th, 2005 at 12:10 pm
I know how you feel Kortnie…I was butt nutted too.
I would like to make you feel better as only another woman know how.
Call me.
SICK. I can tell you really hate yourself, posing as me. What a coward, hiding behind someone else’s name. BIG coward!
Jill found the person who used your name and banned them.
T
Folks you have to realize that I can not watch every post and cross reference the IP addresses. This is an open site, although I am thinking of making it invite only. I do not want to do so, but I can not be a nanny
Phil
Dont forget Red, I am behind the scenes trying to live blog the press conference for all that could not get an internet connection. Looks like their server has maxed out.
Thank you for your kind words.
I understand that, Tom. I’m trying to ignore them as best I can…Seems to make them bored & give up when they’re not ‘fed’
‘Preciate it!
p.s. Hope you’ll invite me, if it comes to that
If Natalee had been taught to defend herself instead of “ignoring,” she might not be dead right now.
Yes, unfortunately, men rape and murder women on this planet in enormous numbers. Now, Natalee has become one of those in the enormous numbers.
To those men who do NOT engage in this type of conduct toward women – we are definitely thrilled you are around as rape/murder is a terrible way to die.
What we need is some forensic evidence.
Not me, was it?
Told ya.
Where is my apology for the dead mother comment, man-hater?
I did not impersonate you.
No one is sick enough to do that.
Must be lonely where you are, Kortnie.
Where is my apology for the dead mother comment, man-hater?
I did not impersonate you.
No one is sick enough to do that.
Must be lonely where you are, Kortnie.
Can we stay focused at least in THIS ONE??? PLEEEEEZ?
If for nothing else….for Natalee’s sake.
I don’t think my mom would like me on this site if she saw some of the comments here.
Why are some people fighting?
I thought this was about that missing girl in Aruba.
Maybe because there is no news coming out people are getting frustrated.
No, “SP,” it’s because there are some men out there in the world who enjoy harassing women. Esp. women who are intelligent and speak their minds.
Haven’t you heard of verbal harassment? Sexual harassment? Well, that’s been going on here – this is the first you’ve been here.
In addition, have you ever heard of women fighting back? Well, that is what I am doing. It might help you to become more of a Tiger Lily in this world than a Sweet Pea. Natalee was obviously a Sweet Pea. And look where she is now.
‘I hope your mother dies today’ –Kortnie
Little wonder she is alone.
Shame that some poor girl has to get taken, and we get stuck with Kortnie.
Sad, truly.
Kortnie,
The only person here who thinks you are intelligent is you.
Get over yourself, princess.
You guys almost have the same name. You just spell it differnet.
Are you related?
Sometimes me and my brother fight too.
You just can’t stay away from me, can you, pervert?
I hope YOU get “taken” by a bunch of men, raped and murdered, just as you wish on me.
I hope it happens soon.
YO MAMA!
I better go.
LOOK AT ME!!!
I TYPE IN CAPS AND HATE MEN, SO THAT MUST MEAN I AM AN INTELLIGENT WOMAN!!!
SP, you are a real innocent, aren’t you? Be careful when you go outside (and when you’re inside) because this world is FILLED with men looking for innocent female prey.
Which is exactly what Natalee was. Be careful.
I think Kortnie is dumber than a plate of chicken.
I can’t hate stupid, though.
I feel bad for her, more than anything.
Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
Have you heard the word “ignoramus?’ That is you, qk. To a T!
OK, I’m not going to “communicate” anymore with an obvious moron, so any further posts from “Kortnie” are from my ever-lovin’ impersonator who just can’t get enough of me!
Signing off for now.
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/galadriel/
She is a diseased mind, truly.
Apologies to everyone else, but the feminazi had to be tuaght that this site is not for her.
And by not for her, I mean not dedicated to her angry, man-hating agenda.
Kortnie needs help, and I hope she gets it.
Looks like things will quiet down now. Some people are given the afternoon off and we may have more joining them, but the discourse should be much calmer.
(Yes, I fixed the banning module)
Tom
Thank (insert deity here)!
h
[...] ws both Arubans and Americans to talk with each other. We have had a Dutchman describe the legal system of the Netherlands so that Americans could understand the differences and understand why it loo [...]
Psalm 82
I really hope they find Natalee, as I’m certain everyone else does, too. It’s so sad to see pictures of her, so young and lively. So sad that something awful likely did happen, makes me worry for the future of our society and our families and children. I couldn’t imagine losing any of my babies. My thoughts and prayers are definitely with Natalee and her family.
My heart goes out to Natalee’s family and friends. May God find a solution to all this . I was shocked to find out that there is another girl missing in or around Aruba with a connection to the same bar. Maybe this bar should be checked out more. How do these poor parents leave this country without their daughters and how long can they stay. I thought you could only stay in another country for 30 days and then have to leave but can come back. I think there is some sort of maybe prostitution ring going on and they are kidnapping them for this reason. Who would know better than a judge’s son what to do with a person that you raped and had to hide. Who would know better than a judge on how to dispose of someone without getting caught. I pray that they find her and the other missing girl but lets remember this forever and don’t drop the sight if they don’t find her . If they had a sight for that other girl and kept it going maybe we carefree Americans would have taken heed and not allow our children to go off or at least be more informed that these countries are not governed by the United States of America. No matter what the outcome is , it is our duty to keep this fresh in the minds of the next 20-30 years for the upcoming seniors that want to travel out of the USA
.
To the justice system in Aruba, take your time . We don’t want to send an innocent man to prison , like we could have done with the 2 security guards. Inprisoning the wrong people is not going to get us answers. Alive or dead we just want to know and get her back. No mother should have to bury an empty coffin. If she is dead they need to find her so her mother can take her home and bury her. The not knowing if she is alive and not knowing what is happening to her has to be the worse torture a mother could go through. Is there a sight in aruba that you can write and tell the aruban people that we want their help and that we commend them for what they are doing. The people there are not to blame for the mistakes of one you or more mean and depraved individual. Is the mother in Aruba of Natalee , her stepmother ? If she is where is her biological mother through all of this
What is natalee mother doing all day there ? Does she sit in the hotel room ? Is she out searching? I read somewhere that her mom was staying in the room that Natalee had is this true?
I am totally disgusted by the US media, who have portrayed the young men being held in this case as rapist, murderers, sexual preditors, and worse. In fact, the media don’t know what happened, and neither do we. Perhaps the Aruban autorities know more, but for now they appear to keep whatever information they have under wraps, and we must assume that they have good reasons for doing so
Under the rule of law people are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Until then we cannot exclude the possibility that what has happened is nothing else but some freak accident; perhaps the girl boarded that party boat and fell overboard; who knows? If that were the case then these young men happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, but did in fact not commit any crime. If they are innocent, which we cannot exclude at the present time, then they are the victims of a smear campaign orchestrated by the US media
give me a break Jan, if she fell over board isn’t it still the obligation of the people around to say that. Did they drop her off at the hotel and then she went boating. Why are they being so closed mouth if they are not involved. They say they dropped her and the guy off that was a lie there is no security camera that says she ever made it home , so why the lies. Maybe if this was your daughter you would have a different outlook. People don’t just fall off the face of the earth. If I were one of the guys being held I would do whatever it took to prove my innocence even if it made the othere guys look bad . We are not talking about stealing a pack of gum. This is a young girl who should have been home now planning on what to take to college and becoming a doctor. I pray that you never have to know the hate for everyone involved when a child is murdered and you don’t know who did it . It’s even harder when you know only one could have done it and no one is talking
Do you suggest we feel sorry for these young men? Have you ever had a child murdered or missing? The worse part is it’s been several weeks now and if she is dead they won’t have much to take home if they do find her and if she is alive what is happening to her now. I think if she was alive one of them would have given it up by now. Kidnapping isn’t as serious as a murder charge
I sympathy goes to the mother and the girls that she was with that night not the low life that didn’t make sure she got home safe knowing her condition. Just my opion. May God have mercy on all their souls
Jan are you a US citizen? And being presumed innocent is US law not Aruba. Do you know this is not the first girl from the US to vanish in Aruba after partying at that bar. You need to read more about what’s been going on there. Those parents of that girl have never seen her again but she has been spotted by tourist who didn’t know that she was missing and she asked them to help her. There’s more to this than what we know and that is for sure . So don’t be to quick to let your love one go there and become the next victim. That’s the best way to find her and find the killers is through the press and internet. When it comes to your child or loved one you will take the help where ever you can. Without all this media and hype there might be more missing if they think it would be blown over. The U.S. doesn’t leave any soldier behind or children. Our army does whatever it takes to bring home any wounded soldier. That’s how are guys can go to war with some peace of mind knowing that their country will bring them back home for their families. This is true about the citizen as well
I thank God every day that I live in a country that is strong and takes care of it’s own . I would like to Thank the army ,FBI, and all other organizations that are there in Aruba fighting for Natalee. I will gladly spend my tax payers money for this girl to be brought home wheather it be alive or dead. She is a US citizen and we should protect her and her family.
s
Jan are you a US citizen? And being presumed innocent is US law not Aruba. Do you know this is not the first girl from the US to vanish in Aruba after partying at that bar. You need to read more about what’s been going on there. Those parents of that girl have never seen her again but she has been spotted by tourist who didn’t know that she was missing and she asked them to help her. There’s more to this than what we know and that is for sure . So don’t be to quick to let your love one go there and become the next victim. That’s the best way to find her and find the killers is through the press and internet. When it comes to your child or loved one you will take the help where ever you can. Without all this media and hype there might be more missing if they think it would be blown over. The U.S. doesn’t leave any soldier behind or children. Our army does whatever it takes to bring home any wounded soldier. That’s how are guys can go to war with some peace of mind knowing that their country will bring them back home for their families. This is true about the citizen as well
I thank God every day that I live in a country that is strong and takes care of it’s own . I would like to Thank the army ,FBI, and all other organizations that are there in Aruba fighting for Natalee. I will gladly spend my tax payers money for this girl to be brought home wheather it be alive or dead. She is a US citizen and we should protect her and her family.
That would be cowgirl
To Silentspirit;
I received your email wanting to know more about the other missing girl in Aruba. To any one who wants to read up on it . Go to http://www.amybradley.com. Do you know that there are 876,213 people in the FBI data base of missing persons? It makes for some interesting reading. To think that some one can be in one room and you in another and while you take a shower they are never to be seen again and no clues as to what happened. It is very scary when you think about it. Please everyone read this article about Amy Bradley, there have been cases of people that have seen her so she may still be alive after 8 years. We need to try to bring this out again while everyone is in Aruba looking for Natalee maybe they will find Amy as well. Lets do all we can to bring both these girls back to their mothers
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