Natalee Holloway Family Attorney, John Q. Kelly; Suspects Can Lie, Witnesses Cannot

Rita Cosby, Live & Direct, December 19, 2005

The Holloway family attorney has brought up an interesting point during this interview of the ability for suspects ability to lie and witnesses cannot. Also who determines who will be a suspect and who will be a witness. At what point does one become a witness and then possible change to a suspect?

Well, they made the distinction down there; suspects cannot be charged with lying, witnesses can. And that begs the question, who makes the decision as to who’s a witness and who’s a suspect?

These three young men clearly lied the first time they were questioned. And, as a result of their statements, the two security guards were arrested. So they were being treated technically as witnesses, from what I could see at the time, and clearly did lie.

So, you know, they can wiggle their way out by someone else calling them a suspect instead of a witness, but, you know, that’s where the real problem lies here.

We know that Joran, Deepak and Satish lied in the beginning of this investigation. They were considered “person’s of interest“, but not suspects. When they made the statements that implicated the two black security guards, were they not witnesses? It does appear to be a game of semantics and a very unfortunate one.

Then we are provided with the following comment from Steve Cohen, Aruban government consultant.

It’s not ever OK to lie. But if you’re in the midst of being interrogated and you do lie and you’re are caught in that lie, unless you’re under oath, which only happens once you’re charged, you can’t be charged with anything. It is odd, and it is difficult to deal with it, but it certainly isn’t the be-all and end-all.

All in all, lies were obviously committed. What would the three people to last been seen with Natalee Holloway been considered? They were not suspects. Would not they have been witnesses if it were their statements that helped put the the security guards in jail? If they were witnesses and witnesses are not allowed to lie, why have they never been charged?

The rest of the interview:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: We have enlisted now the help of John Quinlan Kelly. He just spent a week on the island of Aruba meeting with the officials. And, you know, we are just hopeful now that we will be kept in the loop and knowing what’s happening in the investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: Well, the family of Natalee Holloway has enlisted some big-named legal help to solve the case. John Q. Kelly may be best-known for representing the family of Nicole Brown Simpson in the civil case against O.J. and won.

He joins us now live in his first interview on MSNBC since taking on the case. John, why do you want to get involved?

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S FAMILY: It’s just a tragic situation. There’s been some egregious conduct here, from what I can see. And I just am fully committed to helping the family at this point, Rita.

COSBY: What legal options does the family have?

KELLY: Well, I think the only option we’re looking at right now is the criminal investigation. We want that to bear fruit. We want prosecution. And we want some answers as to what happened to Natalee, and we want to bring her home.

COSBY: You know, you’re obviously very well-known for filing that wrongful death suit against O.J. Simpson and, as I pointed out, winning, doing a successful job there. Is there a possibility of this family maybe going after the Kalpoe brothers or the Van Der Sloots?

KELLY: You know, we’re leaving that to the Aruban authorities and the police and the prosecutors right now, to go after the people responsible down there, Rita.

COSBY: Is that an option, though, down the road? I mean, are you ruling that out?

KELLY: We’re not ruling anything out. We’re relying on the Aruban authorities right now. If they fail in what we hope they’ll do, then we’ll look at our other options.

COSBY: Have they opened their eyes a little bit, seeing that now the family has an attorney? Has that put some pressure?

KELLY: Well, I don’t know if it’s pressure. I think there was—you know, a line had been drawn in the sand. There was a need for some communication.

I went down there. I met with the deputy chief, Dompig, and the prosecutor, Karen Janssen. And, you know, there was a start. We had a global discussion of sorts. And, you know, that’s happened, at least.

COSBY: You know, last week, John—and I’m sure you heard about this

you know, they came to Washington, a lot of Aruban officials, and they made some pretty stunning claims. I mean, one of them—they basically said it’s OK in Aruba to lie as long as it’s not under oath, but you could lie to police, which is what these boys did. Even the police acknowledge that.

Let me show a comment—first of all, this is from Steve Cohen. He’s a representative of the Aruban government. He spoke with us last week. And I’m going to get you to respond, John.

KELLY: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE COHEN, SPECIAL ADVISER TO ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: It’s not ever OK to lie. But if you’re in the midst of being interrogated and you do lie and you’re are caught in that lie, unless you’re under oath, which only happens once you’re charged, you can’t be charged with anything. It is odd, and it is difficult to deal with it, but it certainly isn’t the be-all and end-all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: No, but, John, it certainly helps when you can hold somebody accountable for lying to police. How challenging is it, when you’re dealing with Aruban law?

KELLY: Well, they made the distinction down there; suspects cannot be charged with lying, witnesses can. And that begs the question, who makes the decision as to who’s a witness and who’s a suspect?

These three young men clearly lied the first time they were questioned. And, as a result of their statements, the two security guards were arrested. So they were being treated technically as witnesses, from what I could see at the time, and clearly did lie.

So, you know, they can wiggle their way out by someone else calling them a suspect instead of a witness, but, you know, that’s where the real problem lies here.

COSBY: Sounds like a lot of semantics.

KELLY: It is a lot of semantics.

COSBY: In terms of questioning, too, Dompig, the deputy chief, of course, was talking about the possibility of also re-interviewing some folks when he was coming to the States, some of Natalee’s family sort of backtracked what happened in those final hours before she disappeared. Do you know what’s happening with that?

KELLY: Well, yes, I mean, we actually talked about down there. I offered to facilitate it. And they indicated, as has been made known now, that the FBI is going to re-interview these girls.

But, you know, these girls from Alabama have no idea what happened to Natalee. I mean, they just don’t know. The people that know what happened to Natalee are down in Aruba. And instead of worrying about questioning these girls, they’ve got to bring in these three young men again. They’ve got to bring in Joran’s father. They’ve got to bring in Freddy Croes. They’ve got to bring in the people that have some knowledge of what happened to Natalee and question them again and stop worrying about side shows.

COSBY: Yes, do you think this is just sort of a deflection?

KELLY: Of course it is.

COSBY: I mean, it seems absurd that—like you said, they’re talking about the folks over here.

KELLY: Yes. And that’s been a non-issue. The girls have been available at any time to be interviewed, but they don’t have the answers. The answers are down in Aruba. The resources are in Aruba. The information’s in Aruba, and the access in Aruba. Aruba’s got to come up with the answers and resolution to this matter.

COSBY: John, what’s your sense, from looking at this case now? I mean, you’ve been involved for a few weeks, right? How long has it been?

KELLY: Three weeks or so.

COSBY: OK. Are you getting a sense that justice is going to be served, that we’re going to have some answers in this case?

KELLY: You know, we demand answers, we expect answers. Aruba has indicated that they’re working on answers. So, you know, time will tell. It’s incumbent upon them to come up with a result right now.

COSBY: All right. Thank you very much, John. We appreciate it.

KELLY: Thank you, Rita.

COSBY: Thank you very much. Keep us posted, John.