Just in Time for the Christmas Season … ‘Why Believe in a God?’ Ad Campaign on Buses


More attacks against the reason for the Season …

“Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion.”


Coming soon to a bus near you in the Washington, DC area during the Christmas season … Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness’ sake”. The campaign against Christmas, Christ and God is in full holiday swing. Under the guise of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists feeling alone during Christmas, the American Humanist Association has begun a $40,000 ad campaign against God and religion. The agnostics have want to take their atheism message for a ride this year. Pay close attention to their anti-God message as its not just about personal morality. Think its not, check out the double talk.

Edwords said the purpose isn’t to argue that God doesn’t exist or change minds about a deity, although “we are trying to plant a seed of rational thought and critical thinking and questioning in people’s minds.”

The group defines humanism as “a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism, affirms our responsibility to lead ethical lives of value to self and humanity.”

Maybe if agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists found God and Jesus Christ in their lives, maybe, just maybe they would not feel so empty, so useless and so alone. Christmas is about the birth of Christ, why wouldn’t people who claim they have no belief in it feel alone? For people who claim to use reason and rational thought, that hardly seems the case. Folks, find God … he loves ya and maybe you would not feel so alone. Just a thought.

Ads proclaiming, “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake,” will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December. The American Humanist Association unveiled the provocative $40,000 holiday ad campaign Tuesday.

In lifting lyrics from “Santa Claus is Coming to Town,” the Washington-based group is wading into what has become a perennial debate over commercialism, religion in the public square and the meaning of Christmas.

“We are trying to reach our audience, and sometimes in order to reach an audience, everybody has to hear you,” said Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group. “Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion.”

Humanist Holiday Ads Say Just Be Good

So agnostics say just be good when man is prone to sin.

“It’s a stupid ad,” he said. “How do we define ‘good’ if we don’t believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what’s good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what’s good, it’s going to be a crazy world.”

Also on Tuesday, the Orlando, Fla.-based Liberty Counsel, a conservative Christian legal group, launched its sixth annual “Friend or Foe Christmas Campaign.” Liberty Counsel has intervened in disputes over nativity scenes and government bans on Christmas decorations, among other things.

“It’s the ultimate Grinch to say there is no God at a time when millions of people around the world celebrate the birth of Christ,” said Mathew Staver, the group’s chairman and dean of the Liberty University School of Law. “Certainly, they have the right to believe what they want but this is insulting.”

Posted November 12, 2008 by
Bizarre, Holidays, Religion, WTF | 41 comments

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  • Comments

    41 Responses to “Just in Time for the Christmas Season … ‘Why Believe in a God?’ Ad Campaign on Buses”

    1. Miss-Underesmated on November 12th, 2008 12:30 pm

      Hey, wait till 2009. We prolly won’t be able to utter the word “Christmas” via the air waves.

    2. EURobert on November 12th, 2008 12:31 pm

      “… Christmas is about …”

      – the birth of Christ

      – ……….

      – ……….

      – ……….

      – ……….

      – ……….

      – ……….

      and so on……


    3. Brenda in Virginia on November 12th, 2008 1:29 pm

      Here’s my take on this.

      If there is no God (which I know better :>) then good and evil are figments of our imagination. We would be evolutionary creatures begat from the primortial slime with no separation from an animal other than more advanced physical characteristic.

      Do these athiests believe an animal knows the difference between “good and evil” and can make a decision to lean towards one or the other? If not…how can we being “animals” have any understanding of the same?

      The athiests continually contradict themselves. No God…but be “good” which is a religious idea. You’d almost laugh if it weren’t so pitiful. Without a God, there is NO right and wrong. That exists only with a righteous God reigning over the universe. Otherwise, we’d need to convict every animal that kills another for murder…right?

    4. weasel on November 12th, 2008 1:38 pm

      there are no atheists in foxholes.

    5. bikerbev on November 12th, 2008 1:49 pm

      I live 25 minutes outside of D.C. I just heard this yesterday and I know my blood pressure shot up. Why is it okay to put this garbage on metro businesses, but Christians can’t even talk about Christmas?? So which group is being discrminated against now? I once heard a preacher say that atheists do believe in God. In order NOT to believe in something you have to ‘believe’ in it to be against it. And I might add, usually what’s the first thing people say when they get hurt, or they receive shocking news? Oh My God…that’s because we were made in the imagine of God and God is in us and when something bad happens to us we will always turn to him. Atheists can say they don’t believe all they want, but when they are in a terrible situation, you better believe they will cry out for ‘someone’ to help them. Praise the Lord!

    6. Michelle on November 12th, 2008 1:53 pm

      How can someone not believe in God? It’s too much for their minds to comprehend. Some people believe that if you can’t see it, smell it, touch it, hear it then it can’t be real.

      If you don’t believe in God you can not believe in the devil as God is the creator of the universe and everything in it.

      What is darkness? the absence of light. What is evil? The absence of God. Too many scientist trying to confuse people with their theories.

      It is difficult for some people to understand FAITH therefore they dismiss it as myth. God does exist and one day SOON these non-believers will have a rude awakening.

    7. Michelle on November 12th, 2008 1:57 pm

      #5 I totally agree. Christians are being discriminated against everyday. They have taken prayer out of schools. They have removed the 10 commandments from public buildings. They want to remove God from money, the pledge allegiance and anything else they don’t like. We have the right to our religion as much as they have a right NOT to have religion. It’s okay for them to put up their anti-christian signs but we can’t say or do anything religious without it causing a stink.

      Makes my blood boil

    8. Terri on November 12th, 2008 2:13 pm

      It is very simple….
      I would rather believe in God and be right when I die, than to not believe in God and be wrong when I die.

    9. nurturer on November 12th, 2008 2:16 pm

      #4 – That would make a great bumper sticker.

      That’s why they let the believers do their fighting for them.

    10. Kelli on November 12th, 2008 2:40 pm

      They will continue until the very end! Remove Christ is the agenda…First thing I thought of.

      John 15:18-25

      18.If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

      19.If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

      20.Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

      21.But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.

      22.If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

      23.He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

      24.If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

      25.But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

    11. Freebrid on November 12th, 2008 2:59 pm

      WHen all the things we have that has God on them are removed this country will be removed to.. the United States is headed for a down fall.. if people don’t like the way we live, worship, and what we believe go back to where you damn came from.. I know for a fact AMericans can’t go the other countrys and discriminate against their believes.. hell we would be beheaded throwed in jail…

    12. Richard on November 12th, 2008 3:24 pm

      I think it was Henry Cabot Lodge who once said: “Sometimes a nation abolishes God. Fortunately, God is more tolerant.”

      Anyway, a $40,000 ad campaign there won’t get much.

    13. weasel on November 12th, 2008 4:41 pm

      If I was back there and saw one of those buses
      I’d follow it with several cans of black spray-paint at-the-ready.

    14. Pat in Alabama on November 12th, 2008 5:27 pm

      #3 Brenda

      You are so right. And if all we are is a bunch of chemicals somehow concocted into “intellegent” life, then there is no right or wrong, no reason not to kill, rape, or take anything we want. Such thinking reduces us to nothing more than animals, which seems to the way some in our society are behaving these days.

    15. yoyo muffintop on November 12th, 2008 5:58 pm

      My personal thoughts on this is that although there are many religions that seemingly all strive to the same ultimate goal of “reaching God” the personification of a particular form of God is the thing that seems to throw people askew.

      I’ve been asked before “Do you believe in God?” That’s an interesting question in reality. What does the person mean by that? What I get from it is “Do you believe in MY God?” Remember, now, that to a typical Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu “MY” God (if I believed in one) would not be the correct God if it were different. The problem seems to lie, once again, in the personification of God. The personification is reflected in Bible’s, Koran’s, Torah’s, etc…

      What I’m getting at is that with all of these different “personifications” of God, it amazes me at how many people feel they have the one right answer. The question, to me, then becomes one such as: “If there is indeed a God, and the problem tends to lie in the personification of God, than why does God need acknowledgement or worship at all? This begs the question that I’ve asked a million times: “What if, as a believer in a particular religion (or personification) you’re wrong?” Are you not in the same boat as me? After all, your failure as a Christian to acknowledge, let’s say, Zeus as a true God probably doesn’t do you anything if you die and Zeus is standing there atop Mt. Olympus. You and I, if such a thing were true, will both be looking at each other going “DOH! IT WAS FREAKING ZEUS?!?!?!” That is, of course, right before we are sent to Hades to live in some eternal hellpit.

      So, really, most religious people tend to believe in God. Let me clarify – most believers tend to all look up at the sky and say “Someone or something is up there watching.” I think from the days of Zeus and Baal to the Christian and Muslim Gods in our present era, man has done that – they’ve just changed the personas a little bit. So, really, does that “thing” up in the sky even warrant acknowledgement to begin with? I think not.
      I’d hate to make him mad and personify him as something he’s not.

    16. Colorado on November 12th, 2008 6:16 pm

      Without god, science is one unexplainable contradiction. In an all inclusive universe, matter cannot be introduced, created or destroyed without the influence of an outside force. But in an all inclusive universe there shouldn’t be any outside entity in existence.

      Thus, God really is the only answer. Atheists don’t just not believe in god, they believe in nothing as though it were something.

    17. yoyo muffintop on November 12th, 2008 6:26 pm

      The problem with theistic morality is, imo, that the text of the Bible hasn’t changed and yet Christian interpretations of morality has definitely changed in just the last 200 years, much less the last 2000 years, even on fundamental issues.

    18. Kay Zee Es on November 12th, 2008 7:17 pm

      yoyo muffintop lectured…
      “- most believers tend to all look up at the sky and say “Someone or something is up there watching.” ”

      Of course, it really depends on what the meaning of the word “is” is.

    19. Fox Fire on November 12th, 2008 10:04 pm

      The first thing that came to my mind was:

      And, the Nations will know that I am Jehovah,

      then, the end will come.


      Jehovah is not just a god.

      He is the God.

      And, through Him,

      all things are possible.


    20. ANewGirl on November 12th, 2008 10:18 pm

      FoxFire…My friend Patti points out,

      He is the God.

      And, through Him,

      All things are possible.

      That’s it right there….Through him ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. Amen!

      As mortals, it doesn’t matter what personification of God we believe in or perhaps even what religion we chose to worship—as long as we believe.

    21. Pat in Alabama on November 12th, 2008 11:22 pm


      The Bible indicates in the following passage that man should know there is “a God” just from the design of creation. But to those who have never heard of the God of The Bible, (ie. some Amazon tribe) they may not know exactly who this God is. That is a bit like your unknown God.

      Romans 1:

      19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

      20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

      21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

      22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

      23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

      You might find it interesting to read “A Skeptic’s Search For God” by Ralph Muncaster available from Amazon. This guy started out in Sunday School, decided it was all rediculous because the teachers couldn’t answer his questions, became an atheist and set out to prove that God does not exist. Using real science (like DNA and cell structure, etc.) he wound up calculating astronomical probabilities that there was a creator. He went on to calculate the probabilities of “verifiable” prophesies in the Bible all being true, and then finaly prophesies concerning the Christ. It’s a very interesting and thought provoking book.


      Taking your thought about the different religions a step further, there is even much diversion among all the different Christian groups who claim to believe in the same savior. The bottom line though is that it is about a relationship with a person, Jesus Christ, who is the personification of God. None of the rest of it makes sense until you come to know Him. I have, so I am either crazy because I believe that I talk to a man who has been dead for 2000 years (and he answers), or I am right.

    22. Brenda from Virginia on November 13th, 2008 6:23 am

      Oh dear! I am sure the earth is trembling somewhere because FoxFire and YoYO are on the same side with this issue as the rest of the board for the majority of the part.

      Gotta agree wholeheartedly with one thing YoYo said…most people when asking if you believe in God ARE refering to their own view of what God is.

      Yes, I believe, but refuse to attach myself to ANY worldly church organization or religion. I belong to GOD, not some physical church.

      Also gotta agree with YoYo than although the Christian Bibilcal texts have not been changed, people through the centuries continue to “adjust” the meaning to suit their every changing lifestyles.

      I believe that is why the Bible teaches us “God never changes”. PEOPLE change, not the truth, it can’t or it’s not the truth and never was.

      Really excellent posts on this matter today….maybe there is hope for America still? I pray so, I love my country.

    23. Dave on November 13th, 2008 8:03 am

      Quote: The athiests continually contradict themselves.

      Oh and the bible doesn’t contradict?

      G I V E – M E – A – B R E A K!

      Religion is based on contradictions!
      Hell there have bin so many religions out there why would Christianity which for sure isn’t the first religion, be the one true religion?


      Oh my.. thunder in the sky! God must be angry! Only people with common sense wouldn’t believe in such bull.. But that was then, science whooped that theory’s ass sortaspeak along with many man others.

      Believing in a higher power is a different story though, as it’s not surrounded with silly story’s of the past.

      By the way your God has killed us way more then Satan has, but he still remains popular because he says he loves us. Tihi.

    24. Michelle on November 13th, 2008 9:36 am

      GOD is our creator! He can and will destroy those that turn their backs on him. It isn’t that we haven’t been warned. Everyone has a chance to seek GOD and be removed from the GREAT TRIBULATION which will occur to non-believers.


      What about the Bible to you feel is contradictory?

      Yes there are many different religions but the only way to GOD is through Christ. PERIOD!

    25. super dave on November 13th, 2008 9:42 am

      let’s not get dave confused with me. lightning could strike him any minute. you have to have faith. if not, well ???

    26. Miss-Underesmated on November 13th, 2008 9:54 am

      7. I agree, I write Merry Christmas on everything during the Holidays, my checks, even on my card card reciepts below my name. Celebrate in his name.

    27. Miss-Underesmated on November 13th, 2008 9:56 am

      Oh, I forgot, God Bless all of you.

    28. flippy on November 13th, 2008 10:32 am

      I gotta learn to keep my mouth shut, or fingers still, or whatever.

      For disclosure, consider myself Christian, but I also happen to consider the Bible as the word of man, a “Best attempt by well-meaning humans”.

      As for contradictions, where should we start?

      Genesis 1
      Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

      Genesis 2
      and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

      So, I will agree that this is a minor “contradiction”, but present nonetheless. Which is it, “Water then land”, or “Land then Water”.

      If the Bible is the divine word of God himself, then this contradiction, in and of itself, invalidates the rest. If the Bible is inspired by God, then it does not.

    29. Michelle on November 13th, 2008 12:33 pm


      I do believe the Bible as the word of God, written by man.

      Genesis 1

      1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

      2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

      3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

      4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

      5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

      6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

      7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

      8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

      9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

      10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

      11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

      12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

      13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

      14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

      15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

      16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

      17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

      18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

      19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

      20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

      21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

      22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

      23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

      24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

      25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

      26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

      27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

      28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

      29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

      30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

      31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

      Genesis 2

      1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

      2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

      3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

      4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

      5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

      6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

      7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

      This is how I interpret what you have posted.

      Genesis 1: The bible is telling us that God made the heaven & Earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th.

      Genesis 2: Is telling us what it was like before God Created the Earth & the Heavens.

    30. flippy on November 13th, 2008 3:38 pm

      Michelle -

      You place Genesis 1:1-2:3, chronologically speaking, between Gensis 2:6 and 2:7?

      Fine, I can live with that (not really, I still see it as a benign inconsistency) but, for the sake of arguement, “Genesis 1″ creates Trees->beasts->man whereas “Genesis 2″ clearly changes the order, with Man->Trees->Beasts

      If this is the word of God, why not make it a bit clearer?

      At some point, common sense has to prevail; this is what seperates the vast majority of Christians from the extremists that hate us.

      Exodus 35:
      1 Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the LORD has commanded you to do: 2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”
      God is telling us to kill anyone working on the Sabbath? We don’t even seem to able to agree on which day the sabbath is. Though I expect most reading this would say Sunday, clearly “Genesis 1″ pegs the Sabbath as Saturday; Seventh-Day Sabbath arises from Christ being risen on a Sunday, so although some would see this as an inconsistency, others would see it as an new vs. old testament override. (I have no opinion here).

      So, a strict interpretation of the Bible would demand that we kill anyone who drives to church on the Sabbath. Driving a car more than 30 feet would be considered work (in some theological circles), and therefore the Bible dictates death penalties all around.

      Someone around here was saying how they could never respect a book that advocates killing (in respect to the Koran in that case)…but books don’t kill people.

    31. Michelle on November 13th, 2008 4:01 pm


      I was merely stating that’s how I interpret it. There are a lot of people who do not understand everything the Bible says. Bible scholars can explain things that we will never be able to understand. Our minds are not capable of understanding everything. That is where FAITH comes in. GOD does not want us to kill/murder. He is simply saying that anyone that works on the Sabbath must be put to death but he didn’t say WE should kill people.

      I don’t get the feeling that going to Church on Sunday is considered work, you certainly aren’t getting paid for it and WORSHIPING GOD isn’t work.

      I really don’t think there are contradictions in the Bible. I think that it’s a lack of understanding what is written that confuses people and therefore people don’t want to believe the Bible is the word of GOD.

    32. Dave on November 13th, 2008 5:46 pm

      GOD is our creator! He can and will destroy those that turn their backs on him. It isn’t that we haven’t been warned. Everyone has a chance to seek GOD and be removed from the GREAT TRIBULATION which will occur to non-believers.


      Seek God, that’s a good one. Bet you didn’t find him either, because he is nowhere to be seen!
      Or are you telling me that you “feel his presence”?
      If that’s the case i will be sorry to inform you that that’s just your imagination going out of hand.
      Let me give you an example shall i?
      When there were presents to be found at the Christmas tree, did you not feel the presence of Santa? As a kid i certaintly did.

      But does that mean Santa had bin there? Guess not eh?

      Anyway i wouldn’t even want to believe in such a cruel Christian God. I’d rather believe in a real loving God. Not a God that kills us over and over and over, tells us we will go to hell if we are non believers.

    33. michelle on November 13th, 2008 7:11 pm

      You believe whatever you want….My God is a loving & caring God..

      I really cannot believe that you are comparing God to Santa….

      You do not feel God’s presence because you are not a believer. I have found him…I don’t have to SEE him in order to believe…

      But you go ahead and believe in whatever it is you believe in….

      Have a nice day

    34. Fox Fire on November 13th, 2008 9:15 pm

      I feel my God all the time. He cups me in his hands and keeps me safe and warm. There is nothing that I wouldn’t do for him… and so many things he’s done for me. I always say, ‘Draw Close to Jehovah’, when, in reality, it is He that attracts us to Him.

      Anyone who doesn’t believe in Him…

      has never been touched.


      Ask Yo Yo –

      He’s real…




      Slay the Dragon!


    35. atheist on November 13th, 2008 10:21 pm

      You don’t need god or jesus or religion in order to be good. I was raised catholic but swore if I ever had a child I would raise her to have good values and morals and no religion whatsoever. So that is just what I did and guess what? She turned out great. And she is an atheist too and proud of it. She is an 18 year old college student and most of her friends are atheists too. This is the way of the future. I can’t wait!

    36. Michelle on November 14th, 2008 9:59 am


      You are entitled to believe or not to believe..We still have that right…..for now….

    37. Michelle on November 14th, 2008 10:01 am


      Do you feel that being good is going to get you into heaven or do you even care?

    38. Dave on November 14th, 2008 10:29 am

      Michelle, i wasn’t really comparing Santa to God, i just gave you an example of what imagination can do to a person. Like some people are afraid of ghosts, they imagine that they are there, which in reality is just their imagination. Just like God is an imagination of the mind, and it can play tricks on you.

      Quote: You do not feel God’s presence because you are not a believer. I have found him…I don’t have to SEE him in order to believe…

      You are wrong. I don’t feel God’s presence because he doesn’t exist. But you found him, i wonder how? Have you bin raised/brainwashed with the idea that the Christian God exists?

      Quote: I feel my God all the time. He cups me in his hands and keeps me safe and warm. There is nothing that I wouldn’t do for him… and so many things he’s done for me.

      Would you kill your son if he asked? ;)
      But what has he done for you? I’m very curious.

    39. flippy on November 14th, 2008 10:44 am

      Michelle -

      Umm, no, he is commanding you to kill them. This command makes you feel conflicted, and you choose to ingore it. Congrats on that, a weaker mind may feel compelled to kill; which goes a long way towards explaining the Taliban.

      I am not a Biblical Scholar, but I have studied the Bible at a private university that has historical ties to the Southern Baptist Convention (but operates independantly of them). I am not an expert.

      Going to church is not work. DRIVING a distance greater than 20 cubits (call that 25-ish feet) is (According to tradition during biblical times). That is why some (Orthodox) Jews are always walking around town on Saturdays (at least they are walking around my town).

      Biblical work is not dependant upon getting paid nor on enjoyment, nor on the physics definition. It is based upon tradition, and the rules are staggeringly complicated.

      If you happen to have a water filtration system (or water softener) in your home, then turning on your faucet to drink, or take a shower, is considered work. If you don’t have a water filter then you are free to use the faucet on the Sabbath. This goes to the definition of “Selection” as work, which is the general act of seperating the desireable from the undesireable.

      Writing more than two letters is also work (One letter is not work); so even if you walk to church but take notes during the sermon, you have sinned.

      It is all pretty crazy when you think it through all the way….filling out those prayer requests to drop in the offering…that’s a mortal sin.

      So, clearly, by not murdering everyone else in your church you are choosing to ignore certain parts of the Bible in favor of others. Perhaps you feel doing so would be in Conflict with “Thou shall not Kill”, or even “Don’t Judge lest you be Judged”. You may point to the concept of Jesus “releasing us from the old laws”, which would also release us from other things, like the Ten Commandments.

      I will not deny that the Bible “Contains the truth”, I just have a problem with “The whole truth and nothing but the truth” part.

    40. Michelle on November 14th, 2008 2:04 pm

      #38 Dave

      GOD does exist. It is not my imagination. I see him everywhere I look. I’m not imagining the stars, the moon, the sun, the planets. These things are creations of GOD as is man. So yes, GOD is very much in existence. I do not believe in Ghosts. I do not believe in life on other planets. I believe what the Bible tells me as the word of GOD.

    41. Michelle on November 14th, 2008 2:10 pm


      I wasn’t ignoring anything in the Bible. I have read the entire Bible front to back many times. Like I said, I may not understand everything that is written but that doesn’t make it false or mean it is contradictory.

      The fact that we are humans and not a deity makes us sinners. We will never do everything according to God’s laws/words and that is why he sent Jesus to die for us so that we can be forgiven for the sins we do. No one is ever going to be the perfect Christian.

      Like I said….God does not contradict himself….We just don’t understand everything he has written.

      Thanks for the discussions

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