RSSNatalee Holloway Disappearance: Back By Popular Demand … Paul Van der Sloot Memory Lapses
How is it that a person can competently represent a client in a criminal charge as a lawyer, yet they cannot recollect or remember anything pertaining to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?
Posted September 9, 2007 by Scared Monkeys Aruba, Joran Van der Sloot, Missing Persons, Natalee Holloway, Paul Van der Sloot | 129 comments |
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129 Responses to “Natalee Holloway Disappearance: Back By Popular Demand … Paul Van der Sloot Memory Lapses”
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As usual, I can’t watch the video with my lame computer!
But that’s ok…I can still rag on Paulus!
Every single one of his convenient memory lapses should have gotten his caned! You know, I’d be embarassed to have so many problems recalling as Paulus did. If he was trying to make the world think he was a bumbling idiot, he did a good job!
Some of my favs that he said involve his saying ‘that could be a clue’ …like he’d say stuff about not knowing if his brats got on the bus, then say something that contradicted that so he’d then back up and say “that could be a clue that they did get on the bus”. All that convinced me his entire BS was aimed at giving misinformation clues and skirting around any real clues. Clues were on his mind big time!
Paulus…..did you give Natalee cocaine to perk her up so you could get her to walk on her own? Was it the final straw, Paulus? Did it kill her?
And is that a missing cinderblock there on your front fence thing?
Why’d you really come home from Holland before your wife did?
And what in the heck is your tie to Medleyrelay? Why does she protect your reputation with such a vengence while swearing to know you personally? She couldn’t be more like Anita if she was Anita herself.
What else before I go to bed?
Paulus….riddle me this: 4 go out, 3 come back. Why didn’t all 4 come back?
And here’s another one for you…ask Joran why in his book he refers to Natalee as a blind date. And ask him why he said he was not allowed to have shoes on his date.
Bedtime! Nighty night all!
Gee, what a conveniently “bad memory” Paulus has, but he did remember to give Joran the “fatherly advice” of no body/no case
the day after Natalee went missing.
Hey, Paulus, how did you know that Natalee was no longer alive?
Hey, Karin Janssen, why did you write that letter to release Paulus as a suspect?
This guy has all the answer’s and this can all end in a heartbeat if they would re-arrest this dirtbag and his Son. 4AM pickup time has never been explained and Natalee has never been seen since!!
Karen JANSSEN: Well, the father has spoken with those three suspects and he said he gave them some legal advice but I think the advices were going further than that. They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don‘t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance.
————————————————–
Beth Twitty On the Record w/ Greta – Oct. 2/05
HOLLOWAY TWITTY: I think I just saw specific little details that just have started eating me alive just, I mean, from details of that first night, when we met Joran and Paul and Deepak, you know, just little details that have been eating away at me on this pick-up time at McDonald’s, you know, Paul van der Sloot stated specifically and emphatically he picked them up at 4 a.m. I have it documented in my journal too many times to know that…
Investigator Roy Tromp confirmed that Paulus changed his story. Jug could not understand why statements were not immediately obtained from all witnesses who were present on that morning that would have all reflected the 4:00 am pickup time.
On June 5/05 Beth requested that security cameras from McDonalds be checked. As of Dec. 12/05 Aruban authorities had yet to comply with her request.
HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Yes, 4 a.m. on May 31, he stated — I documented in my journal — that he stated to the police spokesperson that he picked Joran up at 4 a.m. Again, on June 17, I have it documented in my journal that they were going to question Paul that day about the 4 a.m. pick-up. And then it changed. That’s why I was so shocked that day that you and I went to his home. That was the first time that he had changed to it 11 p.m., to the 29th. So that’s just one example of many little details that are just driving me crazy now that I’m back home.
Roy Tromp 48 Hours Interview – Aug. 5/05
Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished. “Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?” he said.
Claudio Eldridge Letter from Benvinda de Souza to Karen Jansen – June 23/05
“Also understood by Claudio is that Mr. Van Der Sloot said that he picked up Joran around 4:00 am close to McDonald’s.” Translation Credit – Arubagirl
Paulus Van der Sloot Official Witness Statement – June 18, 2005
On May 30th 2005, in the nightly hours, I did not pick up Joran from anywhere. I slept solidly through the night without waking up.
————————————————–
This guy is calling a missing girl a corpse even before she is officially reported as missing. Same guy who was seen on security cameras gambling with Natalee just hours before she dissapeared. He is also the same guy who said he picked up the Natalee and his son at 4am. Two hours after they told the world Joran last saw her.
WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO WITH NATALEE HOLLOWAY??
http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html
————————————————–
Joran van der Sloot: One day I will explain exactly what happened. But right now I don‘t feel ready to do that.
…………….
Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information
Paulus, where is your TIMELINE?
There is no timeline for Paulus…it was never investigated…..because there is where the answer lies….disposed of Natalee….
I guess they think the longer this drags out everyone will forget that it is fact he said many times he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am on 5-30-05. I believe there is even a witness who saw him driving at this time,bank records and even proof in court when he was denied his lawsuit. That’s roughly two hours after what the Aruban Officials and the Van Der Sloots told the world they last saw Natalee.
He waived all rights when he said he would testify against his son and therefore he should lose the “Family Privlage”of being allowed to lie and obstruct the Investigation. He cant have it both ways..This should have been introduced as new evidence,he should have been re-arrested and interrogated the day that he was denied his monies from suing the Govt.. Nowhere on any of the PV’S does it say he picked them both up at 4AM. Nowhere on any of Jorans statements does he say he was picked up at 4AM. This blows the timeline out of the water and changes the case.
JVDS has stated since 2005 that he left Natalee Holloway at the beach.
Paulus Van der Sloot Official Witness Statement – June 18, 2005
On May 30th 2005, in the nightly hours, I did not pick up Joran from anywhere. I slept solidly through the night without waking up.
What a masterpiece of truth!
I wonder what it’s like to pick up your seventeen
year old son at four in the morning with blood
stains on his clothing and in the single shoe that
he was wearing?
Deepak says, “If you want to know what happened
to Natalee, ask Joran what happened to his shoe.”
While Paulus Van der Sloot, a Judge in Training
says, “No body, No crime”
We all know why he lies, the question is why did
Van der Straaten lie? Why did Rudy Croes lie?
Gerald Dompig, Karen Jannsen and the list goes on.
What is going on in Aruba that the most powerful
men in law enforcesment feel a need to cover up
the murder of a young American girl? For what?
Some half-wit, miss fit kid that poses as a
sporter, a soccer player, to impress members of
the opposite sex? I don’t think so. There has
to be more to it than that. Those kinds of
crimes happen to tourists everyday, but never
does the government feel the need to protect the
pertpetrator, atleast not to the point of
committing crimes themselves.
There is something horribly wrong and until we
find out what it is and put an end to it there
will always be those, like us, that speak out
against the injustice. The lost child, swallowed
up in the corruption that they call ARUBA.
Joran killed Natalee…, he confessed…but because of a lawyer not being present..and underage he was dismissed…Paulus and his devious ways and calling on favors of injustice that he has performed allowed the freedom of Joran..!
When Karin Janssen appealed the compensation which was awarded to Paulus for wrongful detainment – the Superior Court’s ruling sided with the proscutor. It ruled that – according to tapped information and Paulus’ own declaration – Paulus’ detention could be considered justified.
Superior Court – Diario – 02-14-2007
The whole case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gets a different twist now that the information has come out from no less than the Superior Court, and in which mention is made of the declarations of witnesses and a phone tap that show or give an indication that Paul van der Sloot had on two occasions personal contact with Natalee during the night that she disappeared. Mention is made that, according to one or more official reports of the phone tap and also the declaration of Paul van der Sloot himself, that Paul fetched Joran and Natalee at McDonald and took them to the Holiday Inn. Based on this information, the judicial authorities and the police had at that time a justified basis to arrest Paul van der Sloot based on different suspicions. (Translation Credit: Diario)
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/2/14/
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/
As I have stated for a very, very long time….why can’t Aruba provide a timeline for Paulus for the evening?
Why does Aruba provide cell phone transmission information for J2K…but none for Paulus?
Why does Aruba continually avoid Paulus?
Why do Aruban judges cover for Paulus?
Why did ALE refuse to properly question Paulus?
Where are Paulus’ witness statements on this case….seeing that he came into the station several days prior to being arrested and gave witness statements? Explain that one Aruba!!!
Why has the KLPD continued this farce by not demanding Karin Janssen’s letter be retracted and the legal system reverse/void the judgement protecting Paulus from further investigation (A PRIVILIGE NOT GIVEN TO THE TWO BLACK GUYS ARUBA TRIED TO FRAME).
Paulus
at #19 Montagna
on the mattress
with the candlestick (OK….Joran’s tennis racket).
Come on KLPD….how long are you going to be a party to this crime? Do your part and stop protecting Paulus under the “color of law”.
MD
What about all the ducks that where investigating the case on aruba ??? Did they go home to stick there fingers back in there dikes ???
Hey dutch investigators what did you find out ???
Dutch Law says you can lie as a suspect but not as a witness. You can lie if you are a suspect or witness as long as you are a Family member..Is that right Mr.Rammstein? Since PVDS gave up that privlage and agreed to testify vs Joran what does that make him?? 2doh: :smt021 :2brickwall:
Paulus is definitely a suspect in this case…and for a judge to award him compensation in this case was unjust,,,,the corruption of Aruba!!! And now he wants he wants to void a citation and set the criminal free….!
Hold your children close and tight!!And boycott Aruba!!!
PLEASE tell us where we can get more information!!! We are staying at the RIU and at 3:30 a.m. Saturday morning, we heard a woman in a nearby room screaming so loudly it was definitely terror and not griefing. It was blood curdling. Did a search to see what we do find out and nothing in media. Front desk stated everything o.k. with woman. Polic do come Saturday but no word on if the woman is dead or live. Please do help? Thank you.
Glad to see Natalees case being discussed again,you should send this page to aruba authorities .Let em know this case will not go away.
Aruba doesn’t care if an America girl, Natalee is raped and killed by their island perverts. That simple.
And in the face of nonstop lies and evasions from Aruba and everyone on it … why won’t any of our presidential candidates speak out on this issue?
Are they afraid that they will be scorned for demanding the truth about an American citizen?
I have and still do believe that Justice for Natalee for these sick individuals will only come now from OUTSIDE of the Justice system and when it begins just watch who and where they will run for cover and protection .
Knowing that you have done such a wrong and seeing horrible things happening to others associated with you in the offense will do horrendous things to a persons mind if the Kalpos had any smarts they would get in front of this now, but as I said if they had ANY smarts .
This is why we must PROTEST at the travel shows and let LIERUBA know we dont want them here…we want JUSTICE FOR NATALEE than we will leave them alone…I will NEVER go there but I will leave them alone. WE the people need to TELL NATALEES STORY. There are lots of shows all over…YOU CAN BE NATALEES VOICE…
Sloot’s responses are standard lawyerese. Those answers were given when we deposed a high profile attorney. Very frustrating to say the least. About the only thing remembered were their names and the firm’s address. Even when asked to make a stab at it, there was not enough to be remembered. Even when shown documents signed, again very vague answers. It’s all part of the game.
I agree with #21. We must protest the travel shows. Look how much it has helped.
Hey, Paulus,
Did you pick up Joran in the early hours of May 30?
Did Joran call you for a ride after he killed Natalee?
Did you visit the ATMs to get money to take care of body disposal and alibis?
Why did Van der Straaten offer your son, Joran, a plea deal of mental institution
vs. jail?
Why didn’t Joran call 911 to help Natalee?
Why did Natalee not recover while in Joran’s presence?
Why was it necessary to dispose of Natalee’s body?
I’m sure you KNOW all the answers to these questions even though you will conveniently try to “forget.”
I APOLOGIZE FOR IT’S LENGHT….
My best guess for where Natalee was taken is the Van der Sloot’s.
Probably to Joran’s younger brother’s bedroom room.
Why? According to Anita; that was the only room at the Van der Sloot’s that was never searched during the “Humiliating Intrusion of Her Private Property”.
How could Anita describe Natalee’s clothing. The garments were obviously left behind and were still there when she arrived back from The Netherlands.
How could Anita describe how Natalee looked nude? Remember her camera that the police confiscated and never returned? It was obviously a digital camera; not a conventional 35mm that required processing. Natalee’s images were on the camera and the evidence had to be erased.
Who all were not there waiting after Deepak signaled them that they were on the way with a blond female tourist on her last night on Aruba, before flying home.
Later in Joran’s book he admitted that his two younger brothers were with his mother and arrived home together.
Who actually was there? Obviously Joran was there. Secondly; there was probably Geoff van Cromvoirt. He had been shunned by Natalee at C and C’s and was anxious for revenge. But the police said he had an alibi. One we have never heard. There was supposed to be a party at his home in Paradera. His guest probably lied and said he was there the whole evening. He slipped out to go to Joran’s.
I’m sure that Koen and Sanders were both there. Sanders plays (soccer?) with Joran. They came from Malmok which is not far from Arisha Beach.
There was no way that Koen took Joran out on his boat to dispose of Natalee.
The IQ and shoe sizes of both are about the same. Natalee got a hold of Sander’s cell phone. The one he said was stolen while at school. So that phone had to disappear to leave doubt about the “mysterious phone call” made by possibly Natalee. (More crime on Aruba.) I don’t believe that Sanders goes to the same school as Joran.
Freddie had to be there. According to Joran; Freddie is Joran’s absolute best friend. Joran would not exclude his best friend from a “Shark Fest”.
Loco Mary was probably there also as Freddie doesn’t seem to go any where without her.
Guido or Marco denied knowing Joran yet he and Joran play tennis together. He was probably romantically involved with Joran and out of jealousy just happened to show up at Joran’s at the wrong time. Or; he could have been one of the responsible persons for Natalee’s death. He being gay would know about using “Something Dreaming” techniques.
Deepak and Satish being called slaves was probably penned by Joran. They may not have wanted to drop off Natalee at Joran’s but Joran probably forced them to do so using threats. Threats concerning other times that Deepak’s car was used as a taxi to take a drugged tourist somewhere.
Paulus probably popped in from the casino at a non opportune time and found his son struggling to find out why Natalee stopped breathing. Alcohol, drugs that were slipped to Natalee and “Something Dreaming” caused Hypoxia and death.
Internet searches for drug interaction and trips to the ATM followed.
The “I picked up Joran at McDonald’s at 4:00 AM vs 11:00 PM makes sense as he attempted to place Joran and himself somewhere and some time, other than the crime scene. The question is why would he say 11:00PM when Joran admitted to being home. Why would he originally say 4:00 AM. What excuse would Joran have for being there at that hour? All sidewalks are pretty much rolled up at that hour in the morning.
I don’t know how to tie in Lorenzo other than he supplied the drugs that Joran slipped to Natalee and was trying to find out what reaction that would have with alcohol. Or; perhaps Lorenzo was at C and C’s and somehow helped Joran slip Natalee the lethal drink.
Although they deny the fact; Michael Dompig and Geoff Van Cromvoirt know each other. Many pictures pop up on community web shots with them together.
I have not found out where Michael lives; his number is unlisted. He, probably out of jealousy, ratted on Geoff because he, Geoff did not invite Michael to the “Shark Fest”. Although perhaps not there; Michael knows what happened.
These are all the things that Paulus would like to be able to NOT REMEMBER!!!
(klaasend)
Put this all together in a GAME that has been going on for awhile against female tourist on their last night on Aruba, and the crimes against Natalee including the bruises on her neck; would be the obvious reasons for the corruption and cover-up.
IMO; because of where it happened and to avoid a forensic autopsy, it was Paulus who made arrangements for Natalee’s body to disappear. IMO it was either Paulus directly or he paid someone else; but he was involved.
_________________________
SM: It’s Loco Stef not Loco Mary
Thanks klassend; I wonder why her name was in bold… I didn’t type it that way…
__________________
SM: Sorry about that, I bolded it to make it clear to others what I was referring to (klaasend)
1906,
Agree with you about the VDS compound being the crime scene.
And any “beach scenario’ is most likely after the fact–when Natalee is no longer alive. IMO
Please see our #16 post. We were not the only hotel guests who heard the woman screeming loudly in the middle of the night last weekend. Maybe fbi could be contacted?
I went ahead and contacted them for fear for this woman’s life as well as fear of a potential cover up. Thanks.
Does anyone know for sure where Joran’s younger brothers were that night….at home, or in the Netherlands?
1006…right on line with my last major assessment of this case.
Lorenzo fits into this in that he was put in charge of dealing with the body.
Remember, Paulus out at 4:00am. ATM withdrawals. Joran GETTING ON THE BUS at 6:30am for school from a bus stop near Lorenzo’s home. Paulus & Joran were out disposing of the body and dropped her off at Lorenzo’s….along with a pile of cash….to take care of the situation.
All the pieces to this crime are there in PLAIN VIEW. Why the KLPD is going along with the farce is beyond me.
md
Hey J-BO… they’re coming for you,
and your mentally deranged goon of
a father. They’re talking about even
doing something with that dilapidated ol’
sorry A$$ sea cow of a mother of yours!
See ya tonight.
http://tinyurl.com/2nhkXg
That would be my guess as well about Lorenzo’s involvement. However I think it’s possible Natalee was still alive at 4AM and raised hell after being drugged and raped. I believe Natalee did get off at least one call between 3-4am and it’s possible shortly after is when something bad happened. As the drugs wore off the more Natalee wanted to get away and to let everyone know what they did to her. How many people would Natalee be able to point out?
It’s possible they brought her to LVR’S house to calm her down and to make sure she didnt go to the Authorities. After all,she wasnt like the previous local girls who accused Joran of this..
Much harder to cover up if the American Authorities are involved and they find out Paul’s Friends in the ALE just months earlier covered up this same thing. Here is Joran just a short time later..Gambling,Drinking and Preying on tourists drugging and rapeing them.I would imagine it became much harder to cover up if Joran bashed her in the head and the Pimps filmed her on Video. Natalee must have woken up before they had a chance to drop her off at the beach.
She could have been badly injured and instead of taking her to a hospital where they would have seen a head injury,and that she was drugged and raped. They may have opted to take her to a secure place to treat her head wound and make sure she didnt tell on them. I cant think of a more secure place than LVR’S compound. Did they upload the Video from Joran’s computer or was she filmed somewhere else? Was she filmed before 4am or after 4am?
Who here really thinks that the Kalpoes drove all over Aruba just for one drink at C&C?? Such a crock of $?@! 27 months later and still they havent been honest what these punks were doing that night!!They get to the bar at 12:30AM and 15 minutes later Deepak is already outside as he doesnt have a drink,doesnt dance and all he does is talk to a friend for 5-10 minutes and goes to the bathroom.
His whole purpose of going to C&C was what?? Picking up and driving Joran to the bar so he could have a drink?? He lost patience looking for his Brother and Joran..Yeh right!! We have all seen the bar and it isnt all that big..It was all premeditated and his whole job was to have that car ready as the drugged drink was administered by last call. The plan was already set in motion as Joran played himself off as a exchange student from holland staying at there same hotel. Get her in the car and let the pimp games begin.
————————————————–
Interesting day in the domain history..Dont you think??Whois Record for Mrpinkproductions.com ( Mr Pink Productions )
http://whois.domaintools.com/mrpinkproductions.com
Whois History: 24 records have been archived since 2005-05-30
————————————————–
“Join the Pink Patrol and start earning money today”
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/MrPinkProductions.jpg
————————————————-
Poolside Bitch and Mr.Pink(Rape and Abduction Video filmed before Natalee went to Aruba.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/cap022.jpg
————————————————–
Majorwager.com
clevfan
Staff
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,984
07-03-2005, 03:30 AM
RE:Anyone else following this Natalee Holloway case?
these are suspect sites:
http://www.mrpinkproductions.com
http://www.guide2paradise.com
both are run by a guy orginally from michigan by the name of paul brough. he is good friends with lorenzo van rijn
old sites are: http://www.getlegalhookers.com and http://www.metronightlife.com
RE:Anyone else following this Natalee Holloway case?
What is kinda funny about this guy is that he is a guy from the Detroit area who’s name is Paul Brough, he winters in Aruba and runs the local “let’s go redwings” chapter there.
He has an escort service down in aruba and was stupid enough to have a few websites down there… http://www.mrpinkproductions.com and http://www.guide2paridise.com which used to be http://www.getlegalhookers.com
Now he is in a heap of trouble down there by the authorities due to this case, even if he isn’t involved in it, he’s is now cooked bigtime, LOL
Quote:
Originally posted by: clevfan
Aruba cops think X may mark the spot
NY DAILY NEWS
AUG 5
Police are said to be investigating whether a porn filmmaker might have had a hand in the May disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
According to the latest scenario in the baffling case, someone may have been trying to talk the pretty 18-year-old honor student into appearing in an X-rated flick.
Aruba cops and the FBI are said to be looking to the porn world for leads.
Paul Barresi, a former adult-film producer who’s now a private eye, says he heard about the possible inquiry from “another ‘recruiter’ who scouts South America for porn talent.”
“Natalee would have been a perfect target – a naive girl from a small town,” Barresi tells us. “The recruiter might tell her he wanted her to pose for some modeling test shots.
“The cops want to know whether [anyone] gave her a date-rape drug like GHB. Only, apparently, the plan went awry. She died,” he theorizes, “and the porn guy may have had to get rid of her body.”
Barresi believes the recruiter is likely to be “someone who lives out of a suitcase.” The National Enquirer reports in its new issue that cops suspect he lives in Aruba.
The Enquirer’s Rebecca Mowling and Don Gentile also report that one witness claims he saw three men dumping a body in a landfill site.
Investigators in Aruba couldn’t be reached for comment yesterday.
Sorry for the long post
That would be my guess as well about Lorenzo’s involvement. However I think it’s possible Natalee was still alive at 4AM and raised hell after being drugged and raped. I believe Natalee did get off at least one call between 3-4am and it’s possible shortly after is when something bad happened. As the drugs wore off the more Natalee wanted to get away and to let everyone know what they did to her. How many people would Natalee be able to point out?
It’s possible they brought her to LVR’S house to calm her down and to make sure she didnt go to the Authorities. After all,she wasnt like the previous local girls who accused Joran of this..
Much harder to cover up if the American Authorities are involved and they find out Paul’s Friends in the ALE just months earlier covered up this same thing. Here is Joran just a short time later..Gambling,Drinking and Preying on tourists drugging and rapeing them.I would imagine it became much harder to cover up if Joran bashed her in the head and the Pimps filmed her on Video. Natalee must have woken up before they had a chance to drop her off at the beach.
She could have been badly injured and instead of taking her to a hospital where they would have seen a head injury,and that she was drugged and raped. They may have opted to take her to a secure place to treat her head wound and make sure she didnt tell on them. I cant think of a more secure place than LVR’S compound. Did they upload the Video from Joran’s computer or was she filmed somewhere else? Was she filmed before 4am or after 4am?
Who here really thinks that the Kalpoes drove all over Aruba just for one drink at C&C?? Such a crock of $?@! 27 months later and still they havent been honest what these punks were doing that night!!They get to the bar at 12:30AM and 15 minutes later Deepak is already outside as he doesnt have a drink,doesnt dance and all he does is talk to a friend for 5-10 minutes and goes to the bathroom.
His whole purpose of going to C&C was what?? Picking up and driving Joran to the bar so he could have a drink?? He lost patience looking for his Brother and Joran..Yeh right!! We have all seen the bar and it isnt all that big..It was all premeditated and his whole job was to have that car ready as the drugged drink was administered by last call. The plan was already set in motion as Joran played himself off as a exchange student from holland staying at there same hotel. Get her in the car and let the pimp games begin.
————————————————–
Interesting day in the domain history..Dont you think??Whois Record for Mrpinkproductions.com ( Mr Pink Productions )
http://whois.domaintools.com/mrpinkproductions.com
Whois History: 24 records have been archived since 2005-05-30
————————————————–
“Join the Pink Patrol and start earning money today”
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/MrPinkProductions.jpg
————————————————-
Poolside Bitch and Mr.Pink(Rape and Abduction Video filmed before Natalee went to Aruba.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/cap022.jpg
————————————————–
Majorwager.com
clevfan
Staff
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,984
07-03-2005, 03:30 AM
RE:Anyone else following this Natalee Holloway case?
these are suspect sites:
http://www.mrpinkproductions.com
http://www.guide2paradise.com
both are run by a guy orginally from michigan by the name of paul brough. he is good friends with lorenzo van rijn
old sites are: http://www.getlegalhookers.com and http://www.metronightlife.com
RE:Anyone else following this Natalee Holloway case?
What is kinda funny about this guy is that he is a guy from the Detroit area who’s name is Paul Brough, he winters in Aruba and runs the local “let’s go redwings” chapter there.
He has an escort service down in aruba and was stupid enough to have a few websites down there… http://www.mrpinkproductions.com and http://www.guide2paridise.com which used to be http://www.getlegalhookers.com
Now he is in a heap of trouble down there by the authorities due to this case, even if he isn’t involved in it, he’s is now cooked bigtime, LOL
Quote:
Originally posted by: clevfan
Aruba cops think X may mark the spot
NY DAILY NEWS
AUG 5
Police are said to be investigating whether a porn filmmaker might have had a hand in the May disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
According to the latest scenario in the baffling case, someone may have been trying to talk the pretty 18-year-old honor student into appearing in an X-rated flick.
Aruba cops and the FBI are said to be looking to the porn world for leads.
Paul Barresi, a former adult-film producer who’s now a private eye, says he heard about the possible inquiry from “another ‘recruiter’ who scouts South America for porn talent.”
“Natalee would have been a perfect target – a naive girl from a small town,” Barresi tells us. “The recruiter might tell her he wanted her to pose for some modeling test shots.
“The cops want to know whether [anyone] gave her a date-rape drug like GHB. Only, apparently, the plan went awry. She died,” he theorizes, “and the porn guy may have had to get rid of her body.”
Barresi believes the recruiter is likely to be “someone who lives out of a suitcase.” The National Enquirer reports in its new issue that cops suspect he lives in Aruba.
The Enquirer’s Rebecca Mowling and Don Gentile also report that one witness claims he saw three men dumping a body in a landfill site.
Investigators in Aruba couldn’t be reached for comment yesterday.
Great job with this and as I’ve said before thank you to SM for keeping Natalee’s story front page and to all those who care and show up to help keep Natalee’s story out there. What was done to Natalee and her family is an injustice and should be kept in the light. Not only for answers, but to make sure this happens to noone else. Others have gone missing from the USA in Aruba before her.
Paulus can’t recall, can’t remember important things such as if Joran went to school etc, but if you read his police statement he CAN recall in great detail the story Joran told about what happened that night. He recalls it all to well, because he help make it up?
It might be lawyer talk to talk like this, but everyone knows it’s a way of being evasive and not answering questions without taking the fifth. Why would he not answer questions if he and his son had done nothing to hide. I told my son to cooperate as much as possible… I’m still wondering how Joran sneaked out the first night, Deepak shows up in his big loud car and parks it while Joran prints papers and then he goes out and Deepak starts up his big loud car again and they leave and noone hears. Yet later Joran says he didn’t want to bring Natalee to his house because he didn’t want to wake his family up. Didn’t wake them up before? He also has a separate place and yet it would wake his family up? Nothing these people tell, say or do has any logic or common sense. He sneaked out the first night his father says, then he says he again sneaked out the second night, after his police statement has Paulus saying he gave Joran permission to go to the Wyndham that night.
So why do so many people here, who are ready to agree that porn producers and other people were involved in disposing of Natalee, adamant that they couldn’t have decided to take her off Aruba and sell her?
Is that because everyone’s preconceptions might be challenged?
Warning, this post is one long mother of Carey’s chicken.
Some will accuse me of doing a hit and run. So I’ll say it before you do. I may. Some are going accuse me of being too graphic, and I haven’t decided if I’ll go that way yet or not. Be warned, there may be some who will not want to read any further. If you have a weak stomach, I would not.
There are several pieces of evidence that to me have become self-evident. That is they proven themselves to be true over time. Junior’s story is not one of those pieces of evidence that has panned out that way, but to me it is the most believable. I’m come back to that in a while.
I’ll save the reader a lot of time and trouble, if you want to read no further. This post is about, rape, murder, video 8, the video of the plastic bag, burial at sea, and the landfill (and I forgot the burial at sea). That’s it in a nutshell, so read on at your own risk. You have been warned.
1906, you have remained very silent on video #8 and the video of the cement basin area. Why? I would love to hear your analysis of both. I’m thinking that both are not credible to you, or you think that they are distractions. Am I right?
Me? I’m the dreamer. Everyone knows that.
So, from the point of view of a dreamer, and from a not so different angle; here we go.
First and foremost, I don’t think we can look at video #8 (the rock videos), or the basin videos, and say they were taken on day 10. The timing is way off, or Natalee was not killed until day 8 or 9. Also, I don’t think we are looking at a full body in video #8. I believe that we are looking at Natalee’s left arm. There may have been at the same time, other parts in the plastic at the basin off the bridge (this disturbes me).
Second, most will say that the rock videos were taken on or near June 10, 05. If this is true, how do you explain what most believe to be Joran ridding in the car with papa Paulus? (Any respect to fatherhood in association with Paulus is disavowed, hence lack of capital letters in papa).
Joran was incarcerated during this time, right?
Third, why did everyone and I mean everyone get so nervous when Dave Holloway was at the landfill? We supposedly had a confession from Joran during that time, and then when Dave stopped digging the confessions was retracted.
So, what happen and who was involved? First, it is my speculation that Natalee was raped by Joran immediately, and in the back seat of Deepak’s car. She was taken to the lighthouse, and Deepak and S. raped her. She was taken to Joran’s apartment, and I don’t know what happed, other than she was killed there. Those that were present (in my best guess) in addition to the 3 mentioned were Paulus, Freddy Alexander Zedan ARAMBATZIS, Geoffry van CROMVOIRT, Seferino “Steve” Gregory CROES, Michael DOMPIG, Koen and Sanders GOTTENBOS, and Guido WEVER.
Jerry
Remember Amy Bradley.
Remember that a woman in the sex slave racket can bring in to her “masters” half a million a year, according to informed estimates, or at least estimates that are presumed to be informed.
Remember that humiliating an American might be seen as a triumph in some parts of the world.
Remember that after two years, NO TRACE of Natalee has been found on Aruba.
But we won’t think about this, because it’s too melodramatic. Instead, we’ll rely on Internet postings.
Wish Scared Monkeys could get a interview with Beth ,would like to know how she feels about Oreillys SLANDER.A interview might get Natalees case back on news channels.
Observer
#3
How the hell can Sweatin Paules and Joran make those statements and not be held in contempt?
Hey KLDP, they say it in your face they know what happened, WTF are you waiting for?
I want some damn justice for Natalee and if not dead out of the sex slave business. Now! PS Aruba is still a hellhole
Richard,
I’M not saying your theory is impossible it’s just very unlikely after what we have seen the last 27 months. Unfortunately I havent seen anything that points to Natalee being sold as a sex slave and moved to another country. The motives behind the dissapearances of Amy and Natalee are nothing alike.IMO I pray that you are correct as that would mean Natalee could be alive somewhere like Amy Bradley. Your theory is actually quite refreshing and would be the best outcome as I think there is a 0% chance that Natalee ran away on her own. Do you have any proof at all that Natalee might have been sold as a sex slave? Have they ever connected the dots to the cruise ship members/band members that may have played a part in Amy’s dissapearance?
My belief is the Porn Producers involvement was just for a video and he nothing to do with selling or disposing of Natalee. I believe the Lorenzo character is very close to the Van Der Sloots and he was brought in after something bad happened to her.
#37 Jerry
It’s just not possible that Natalee’s body was at those rocks that whole time. She had to be put there just previous to when that video was filmed. It is also ridiculous to think the body of a 7 year old boy was laying there for a year in several pieces. I havent seen any proof that Natalee was in the bag or at the rocks but I see clear proof they are hiding something big.
As we re-hash everything,one thing that sticks out in my mind is the reported phone calls that Natalee made. Until this is proven false I will continue to believe Natalee was alive well after 3AM.
The circumstances at the Landfill will always bother me and at the time I was sure they were going to find here there. I also found Junior quite credible and the events that happened there made it all that more suspicious. If you look back at his story the person he pointed out that was directing everyone was Paul Van Der Sloot.
Observer, I am with you on that. I have seen nothing that points to sex slave industry at all. I don’t believe Joran was calling to get a ride to go to CnC, first calling Jaimie then the K2 to go and then more or less stalking and moving in on one girl was for anything but their own selfish egos. He has told us all kinds of sexual stuff and they have all told us in one way or another that she is dead.
I too believe the crime scene was the VDSloots. The whole reason Joran admits to being out front of his home that night was in case someone seen them or perhaps someone has given a statement saying they saw them at the house. I believe they were at the beach but I think it was either to take Natalee out to sea or it was to bury her until they could dispose of her.
3 cheers to Dr Michael Baden again tonight on Greta.. He again stated that in the Natalee Holloway case, they were more worried about doing something about tourism then investigating the chance a local killed her.
Since long posts are in vogue….
About the 4AM pickup….alleged, that is…alleged by PVDS to have been a pickup of Joran @ McDonalds….but what if it was NOT a pickup? What if Paulus is only trying to account for BEING OUT at 4AM around a fast food place in case his car was seen, is all I’m suggesting here because the truth can’t be told by anyone involved or else the case would be solved, so whatever the VDS or the others say can’t be entirely true.
In that case, maybe Paulus took Natalee from some spot Joran left her and took her to a fast food place, to maybe try to get some food in her so she’d sober up -that I highly doubt was McD’s. He may have driven by there, but if he stopped anywhere it would not be McD’s.
You see how it is, things that are mentioned, I believe, are clues, but there are lies mixed in making things only half true..which is how most people lie in the first place. A partial truth is necessary to lend credibility and to be able to counter witnesses who don’t usually have proof to back up what they say and can be said to be ‘mistaken’ -even if the witness is dead on!
So the same could be said about Paulus’s story of picking Joran up at McD’s about 4AM in case his car was seen. Maybe he did drive by McD’s but actually went to Taco Bell. Hell, maybe he went to lots of fast food places trying to find one open.
Part 2…
Paulus and Joran and the predator-in-training/Val are on the computer between 3-4. How then, if the computer is right, could Joran end up needing a ride from anywhere at 4AM? He was just home! My answer is as I stated above….he didn’t need a ride home @4, Paulus needed an excuse to be out at 4AM at a fast food place.
If you all don’t mind, I recall a psychic said:
Natalee was with Paulus in his car when Paulus visited 2 ATM machines. (honest to God that was posted before-at least I- read anything about Paulus going to an ATM, so I freaked out and paid close attention and filed this away in my mind) Then he drove to a fast food place that was closed. He drove up to the drive thru sign seemingly to order, but found it closed. He sat there for a while. During this time Natalee was sitting upright in the passenger seat, but she was not responsive as if she were drugged but still able to sit upright for some reason or else she was trusting and not necessarily drugged. She was not raising a fuss at all.
Part 3
The phone call between Paulus and Joran that came from the Santa Cruz around about 4ish…I seem to recall it was said at first Paulus made it to Joran. But as it was made from Santa Cruz that didn’t make sense, so it was changed that Joran called Paulus from Santa Cruz. But did Paulus actually do the calling to Joran? To maybe ask him something? Or tell him something? Like maybe to ask him where Natalee got the head injury! Joran wouldn’t have mentioned a head injury to Paulus because Joran was NOT HURT, so he wouldn’t think it important. Sure the call it would be documented on Paulus’s cell, right? But no….Paulus all of a sudden was using Anita’s cell! And then nothing else was said about that call from Santa Cruz.
Oh, yeah…there is certainly a cover up…and I’m sure you’ve all noticed how many mistakes were made in this case that needed covering up day by day. Such as Paulus’s cell becoming Anita’s cell and the 4AM call going bye bye. All that could have been to get Paulus out of the mess.
But, if Natalee about 4AM was still alive, where did she go? And why did she have to go?
Part 4
I just watched A Knight’s Tale on TV…the part where the dude, who is supposed to be the meal ticket for the others, dies and one of them refuses to believe he is dead so he starts kicking the crap out of him going “you’re not dead, get up” reminded me of what I’ve mentioned before about the sporter Joran possibly kicking Natalee because she would not get up.
I would not be surprised to find out Natalee passed out from too much drink, that last shot of 151 putting her over the top, and Joran getting mad at his night being ruined, he kicked her and got blood on his shoe trying to wake her up. (this is the opposite of ‘I tried to carry her’)
I would not be surprised if where he took her, or was taking her….probably that cave they have set up for parties, was known by all the young island predators of tourists, that he was going there with her because that’s where they all go.
I would not be surprised to find out Sanders and/or Guido and/or GVC went to that area to see what was going on and found Natalee lying there alone, but got scared off when they saw a car coming. (this might be why Guido was taken in for Heavy Battery and why Sanders is peeing in the bed and why GVC was taken in as well…maybe they told someone they saw Natalee lying there bleeding and that someone thought they might have done it and turned them in)
The car that was coming might have been Paulus, who put her in his car and took her back to his house to figure out what to do.
Why would Paulus take her back to his house? Easy….because he knows Joran lies, and Natalee is passed out/sick/and has a head injury…he’s not going to take her anywhere but to his house until he gets the ‘facts’ straight with Joran in case Natalee tries to raise a rukus, especially if he is shocked to find her injured and not just passed out drunk like Joran probably relayed to his papa.
Part 5
Paulus also thinks he’s slick, so he would think he could talk Natalee out of pressing charges on his sporter. And if she insisted, who would he call to appease Natalee? Maybe his good buddy Jan VDS? …who comes to the VDS house and is pissy because he is wakened up and Natalee is not having any of the hype, tries to run off and Jan impulsively grabs his tazer and fires away to stop her. Tazers have been known to kill, even though they aren’t supposed to. But let’s say they didn’t know they’d killed her, just assumed she was knocked out and she was carried back inside the VDS house and put in the kid’s room –that according to Anita was the only room in the house not searched- so maybe the shot did kill her but they didn’t realize it until later after she didn’t wake up by morning.
Jan…He has seen the evidence, but he can’t rat on himself now can he, and by law he doesn’t have to say any more. Good reason why he isn’t being forced to come forward and end this case with the evidence he saw that proved Natalee was dead. Jan maybe killed her!
Overall, summary….
I think this was a typical getting drunk and dating night for Natalee (nothing wrong with that drinking part and I don’t think for one micro-second that Natalee was interested in sex that night) until she had one too many thanks to Joran’s favorite shot and then possibly from drinking from Joran’s yard in the car. She is fine, happy-high even, for about 20 or 30 minutes until she wants to throw up –which ticks Deepak off and he MAKES her get out of the car. She pukes and then all she wants to do is lie down. She does and she passes out. (I have been there with the high/puke/lay down/sleep/passout myself. I know the timing of this 151 stuff when it finally hits you) Deepak and Satish do not leave them. They wait in the car as Joran tries to get Natalee up because he hasn’t had his fun yet. Joran gets angered at the passed out Natalee and kicks her in the head multiple times. Gets blood on his shoe. It’s only about 2AM by now. They are in the area of where the cave is, but they did not get there because Natalee had to throw up. The cave or at least the place Natalee got out would be in the Santa Cruz cellular tower radius, but that direction would be necessary to travel to get to the cave. (I’d really like to know if the cave is in that area)
They drive to the Kalpoe house and drop off one of the Kalpoes, I’d guess Deepak because he’s less stupid than Satish and could more easily fool Nadira if need be. (and God only knows where Mr Ramirez was during all this) Then Satish is going to take Joran home, but Joran is afraid something bad will happen to HIM if he leaves her alone in the middle of nowhere. So they sit by the racket club a while and phone Deepak to ask what to do. That jogger dude drives by…they call Deepak again afraid they were seen. (check the timeline) And check this….Deepak said they were walking around the racket club area some day after Natalee went missing but decided they should not do that in case they were seen…by my theory of partial truths, this means to me that they had already been seen at the RC, sitting there that night the jogger dude saw them.
Deepak advises to take Joran home and get the car back before Nadira finds out it’s missing. Satish gets home a little after 3 –when Nadira for some reason went to see if the car was home (I’m guessing she heard it pull up after she thought the boys were already home and went WTF?) Joran gets home just before 3.
Joran goes online to see about passed out from drinking and maybe he put something in her drink too but whatever…not to give a crap about Natalee but to see if HE might get in trouble if she never wakes up. Paulus either hears the loud car pull up or he is just himself getting in from being with his buds, finds Joran on the computer in the main house….Knowing Joran was wanting to party with one of the MB girls, he asks how it went and Joran spills the beans that he left her passed out. Paulus freaks out and asks where….Joran tells him and he goes to get her. Joran does not tell Paulus he kicked her in the head. And the reason he neglects to tell Paulus that is because JORAN was not hurt, so it isn’t important, as I’ve said already but just want to reiterate since the post is so long.
The rest of the story I am speculating about is above.
Now what did they do with Natalee’s body? To me, you have to think about who needs to be deliberately involved so they won’t rat. Who might know things about that night that they might slip up and mention unless they have particular reason to keep quiet and to BE quieted. And to me that would be Mr. Ramirez who would know Deepak and Satish were not the ones who caused Natalee harm, but could rat on Joran and maybe Paulus. So I’d say he was charged with getting rid of the body and in return he gets the Internet Café. So maybe someone should ask him some questions. He has been deafeningly silent in all this….except to suddenly own a new place of business not long after Natalee disappeared.
#43 observer: “I also found Junior quite credible and the events that happened there made it all that more suspicious.”
Interesting you’d mention Junior. Here is what Jaime Skeeters had to say about Junior: “Jamie reveals his conclusion: “We did the test four times with the same results all four times. This particular testimony with this individual had a lot of red flags. We come to find out he’s a cocaine addict and has been for 30 years.
Jamie tells translator and witness, “What the polygraph shows is that you really did not see the body being buried on that day. It was a week later when he read in the paper and then he remembered.” He continues, “This individual is not just deceptive, he’s extremely deceptive. He’s lying. He’s lying through his teeth.”
Not sure why you found him credible when Jamie Skeeters who actually interviewed/polygraphed him says no. Did you sit across from him and poly him like Jamie did? If ya did I’ll take your word. If ya didn’t I’ll believe the guy that did.
Now comes Dr Phil on Leno 11/2/05:
“Without giving up too much information… we believe Natalee Holloway is alive.”
“We have reasonable belief, without giving false hope, that Natalee is alive- we don’t know where. There is a huge sex slave industry in that part of the world.”
So Dr Phil’s got info she’s alive. Is Dr Phil lying? Not possible. But maybe he’ll let us know some day.
Speaking of Knights Tale D-mom (#45):
cheesiest line in recent movie history (the last one):
[Watching Joscelyn enter William's tent at night]
Chaucer: Guinevere comes to Lancelot.
[Turns away, smiling]
**Chaucer: Bed him well, my lady. Bed him well.**
Hi Yo Yo..
He was credible because his story was very believable..So believable that they worked out in that hellhole for two weeks searching for Natalee. It was verified that he had called the ALE the day after he witnessed what he saw on june 1st. He also got out there every day and helped dig. He spoke of all the vehicles and those involved and also told us that PVDS was directing them. Apparently many thought he was believable even Dave Holloway.
Yes things got even more suspicious after they blamed the fire on TES when they were not even on the island. Then the Aruban Govt required permits to dig and no one would rent out the equipment so they could search for Natalee. Amazingly when they returned with the permit and the equipment someone filled up all the holes and ruined weeks of hard work.
Dave Holloway recently spoke about that awful place and he doesnt think Natalee was there. I don’t blame him if he never wants to think of that place again!! Junior was a drug addict for 30 years and that easily could be the reason why his LD Tests showed deception. Certainly was much more convincing then Natalee killing herself with Cocaine,The Frozen Condom story or the Letter sent to PVDS from a pregnant Natalee who ran away.
“Now comes Dr Phil on Leno 11/2/05:
“Without giving up too much information… we believe Natalee Holloway is alive.”
“We have reasonable belief, without giving false hope, that Natalee is alive- we don’t know where. There is a huge sex slave industry in that part of the world.”
So Dr Phil’s got info she’s alive. Is Dr Phil lying? Not possible. But maybe he’ll let us know some day”
Dr.Phil?? You have got to be kidding me!!
It’s been two years now so wheres the proof Dr.Phil had that Natalee is alive? Sounds like a ratings trap to me..So everyone would tune into his show..He said this on Leno?? LOL!! Yes maybee someday he will tell us that he did it all for ratings and his reasonable belief is because of Amy Bradley and stats on Sex Trafficking in Columbia and Venezuela. Without giving out too much information that she is alive?? He gave out zero!!
Maybe Natalee was kept alive until the 7th or the 8th. The body of a young blonde woman who’s body can be seen with a massive chest wound has rope burns around each ankle suggesting that she was being held against her will. She may have been raped and tortured repeatedly by the person that she was delivered to. Sure, maybe she passed out and was taken to the Sloots, but how do we know that she wasn’t revived? The four o’clock “pick-
up” may have been a drop off, instead.
I still believe that someone had their eye on Natalee and although she wasn’t shipped off the island, she was a sex slave to someone. Remember, even the locals have heard rumors about wealthy men who stay at the Holiday Inn and abduct women, or have them abducted, for sexual purposes. Remember the cartoon of the Holiday Inn with all the shallow graves in the flower beds near the sidewalk?
There were witnesses that said that they saw a woman being picked up and put into the back of a pick-up. Could that have been Natalee after she passed out? There were also witnesses that said that they heard a woman screaming in the parking lot. Could that have been Natalee being delivered to the Holiday Inn Suite at 4am?
Where does all this money come from that has been paid to the government officials to keep their mouths shut? Why does Guido, leave the island so quickly after Natalee’s disappearance and why was there such a fuss about the casino tapes being handed over to the media? Who or what is on that tape that is so incriminating that Posner would get so angry.
Speaking of which… Where is Posner? Why has no one seen hide or hair of him since Natalee’s disappearance. Isn’t it him that is truly responsible for all the girls being brought over to dance, entertain and provide “special” room service at his establishments?
Could Natalee be alive? Not if the body in the bushes and the corpse in the bag are her, but there is no proof, absolute proof.
P.S. The body I saw at the rocks had her right hand and lower arm cut off (or atleast it looks that way). Has there been any scientific determination that the hand that was found on the coast of Venezuela, truly, that of a monkey?
P.S. I think it’s already been determined that Paulus knew of and helped with the trafficking of young women in and out of Aruba, preparing Natalee for a delivery for a price would not be a long stretch for him. Maybe that was what the ATM stop was for… not to get money out but to make sure that the money was deposited in.
Was it Posner, or just someone that he knew? A Lion and Joran only a scape goat?
ANYTHING is possible.
Late, I know. I can’t sleep, so I came into the kitchen for a bowl of Cheerios.
Yoyo, I’m not saying that Junior was not lying. I said to me he is believable. When I saw the video of Junior, he was speaking Spanish, and I can tell there are parts where, in any language, he is lying. One part is when they ask him to describe the body. At that point, he got carried away and he embellished his story, thus the lie. He didn’t really see the body; he saw Joran, Paulus, and the two Ks looking for the body.
I don’t mean any disrespect for Jamie. I don’t. He put so much of himself into this case. He sweated blood over this case, and it may very well have killed him. Jamie was a cop, and when a cop finds out someone is a drug addict, it blows their credibility, especially if monetary gains are at hand. It’s true, and anyone who knows a policeman who has been a policeman long enough to become a cop knows I’m credible here. The policeman in Jamie wanted to believe Junior, and thus the polygraph 4 times: but the cop in Jamie said Junior was lying.
Junior was lying—that is, he embellished the truth. He should have been asked only parts of the story to see if he was lying or not.
What was a lie? Was he at the landfill? Is that a lie? Did he see someone at the landfill? Was that a lie? Did he see Paulus or Joran, or the two Ks? Was that a lie? Did he see a body? No, of course not, and thus the lie.
My theory is that all was a truth, until they ask him to describe the body, which he did not see, and which he could not describe. He did describe the small swimming pool, that he saw them moving as they looked for Natalee, but he did not see them put a body under it. Dave found the pool, so the pool is a truth of some sort—-right?
Observer, You can’t see the guy move the arm and hand in video #8? It has to be Natalee or some other small, white, female that was killed during this same time. That’s Harry the Nose in the clips with the dogs. If anyone can find a body, it is Harry.
Yoyo, how the rock video fits in with the landfill, I don’t know: but some how it does. I thinking Natalee was cut into pieces. (Forgive me, for my sick thoughts. I hope that didn’t happen.)
Jerry
What would the phrase ” Something bad happened to Natalee” pertain to the sex slave theory?
If you recall the boys have said Natalee was coming in and out of consciousness. Add to that Joran stated that Natalee fell and hit her head on the rocks. Let’s not forget that Deepak telling Joran that if they find the girl the will see all the shit.
These boys were unaware that Paulo’s disposed of Natalee’s body. The boys were creating a scenario in the offshoot that Natalee’s body would be found. They did not know at the time of the statements that Pauley had taken care of making sure Natalee was never found, Hence….no body no case.
http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664
Fierljepper has posted a scenario/rationale chart
Maggie,
Thanks for posting that statement from Dr. Baden on Greta’s show.
It is spot on:
‘… in the Natalee Holloway case, they were more worried about doing something about tourism then investigating the chance a local killed her.”
And by local, we of course mean J2K, (especially Joran).
Even though none of the three were born on Aruba, that is where J2K made their homes.
With regard to Junior having some details but not others….
What if Junior saw Paulus parked near a dumpster, like say near a fast food place 4AM? What if he didn’t think anything of it at the time.
What if he again saw Paulus at the landfill and only then surmised that maybe he had dumped her in that dumpster near the fast food place-which then got dumped at the landfill- because Paulus was now at the landfill NEAR the blue swimming pool that perhaps Junior had seen in that dumpster near the fast food place the night he saw Paulus there.
Vagrants dig through dumpsters. Junior could have dug in that dumpster before Paulus showed up, knew there was a blue pool in it, and then just put 2 and 2 together in assumption after seeing Paulus at the landfill messing with the blue pool-and after reading or hearing about a girl being missing who was connected to the VDS’s- because both Paulus and the blue pool were connected.
This theory could cover all Junior passed on the test and also leave open that he never actually saw a body! He was assuming and was right about everything but he had to lie and say he saw a body so people would believe him.
Druggies don’t rationalize their thoughts like I’ve printed them out above. They would not be able to say how they came to some conclusion because their brains are fried. They would know, but not be able to verbalize effectively. So saying he SAW a body would eliminate his having to explain his suspicions based on what he witnessed 2 different times.
Miss U:
Just for arguement sake, let’s assume that Joran
didn’t kill Natalee and that she was delivered
up to someone, sold as a sex slave:
Naturally, the last person seen with her would be
the suspect. But in this case, Joran knew that to
tell the truth about what really happened would
mean that he would have that person, and, possibly
Posner or the mob after him. The truth would’ve
revealed secrets about the sex slave industry
including his father’s involvement in it.
The fact that they say that she was going in and
out of consciousness doesn’t mean anything to me
other than the fact that they were going to blame
her death on drug-use, which they did and continue
to do. I don’t buy it. I never bought it.
The person that I saw at the rocks was bound and
tortured, the proof of which is the blood that is
seeping from her ankles and the bruising in the
shape of a rope. The person that did this to Nat
had done it to others, as well…. thus, if they
find her, they find all the others, too, ie all
that shit.
The following day, a bag was dropped off at the
racquet club, kept behind the counter and then
picked up by 2K later. That could have been their
share of the pay-off money, thus the phone call
from Deepak saying he hit the jackpot. And, the
theory of Nat being a crack-head and dying of an
overdose began to take shape, immediately.
If we are to believe Shango’s theory, Natalee was
sold to the Lions, of which certain government
officials are a part of. For sure, Jan Van der
Straaten was an active member in the cover-up of
her disappearance from the beginning. I’ve always
thought that Joran had done it, himself, at the
rocks and that his father picked him up afterwards
but it that were true, Natalee wouldn’t have been
in the shape that she’s in at the rock area ten
days later.
If Joran didn’t do it and there had to be a cover
up of the sale of an American girl to a drug lord
or someone just as slimy; considering that the
unraveling of the truth would reveal an even
deeper, more sinister side of Aruba, it would be
logical that Jan Van der Straaten would offer Joran a mental hospital stay in lieu of going to jail, thus a slap on the hand in exchange for
taking the blame. Thus, there were supposed to
be threats of suicide on the day before the
confession, perhaps setting up the scenario that
Joran was insane. The confession was doomed as
in admissable which would have locked that insanity plea in, perhaps…
For Jan Van der Stratten, the Ministers of
Injustice, as well as the reputation of the island
of Aruba could be saved. What threat is the
murder of a girl by a seventeen year old psycho-
path to the reputation of an island in comparison
to the sale of an American girl into the sex
slave industry, the filming of her rape, torture
and murder and the exposure to the world that
these things are common place in Aruba, only
normally with Central and South American refugees.
If the truth got out about the Lions, the whole
corrupt system would have come crashing down.
ATA wasn’t worried about Joran accidently killing
someone, ATA was worried about their reputation
being spoiled by an active, lucrative sex slave
operation that was being operated by some of the
most powerful political figures on the island.
Something happened that made them change their
minds about making Joran the scape-goat. The
bodies at therocks were removed and there was an
attempt to secure that the future of the island
of Aruba would continue to be a happy one with
no one paying a debt to society.
Jan Van der Straaten was there, as well as many
of the ministers, they all knew what was lying
among those rocks, but they rolled the dice and
so far have come out the winners in what will
probably become one of the greatest mysteries.
I say let’s hunt the Lions.
Like Richard says: Where is our government in
all of this? Is an American citizen to be allowed
to be kidnapped, tortured and murdered with no
justice? But more than that, are foreign govern-
ments to be allowed to cover up the crime and
hold the remains hostage? It’s all right there
on tape… the Lions devouring our young.
The problem with most criminal cases is a lack of clues or evidence.
In Natalee’s case evidence was abundant and destroyed.
And yet there are/were way too many clues given by everyone; and I do mean everyone. The difficulty here is too many stories to pick from as to which is the right one or which parts are true.
IMHO it is as if there are a half dozen Natalee’s.
Although PVDS said he picked up Joran at McDonald’s at either 11:00 pm or 4:00AM he never said which McDonald’s. It was not at 11:00PM because in the first part of his book Joran was home at that hour. It most likely was around 4:00AM.
There are three McDonalds on Aruba.
One on the northwest side near the Casinos.
One in Orangestad.
And one in Santa Cruz at 54 B.
http://www.arubayp.com/ListBossPage.html
Type in search Mc Donalds
Click on red list view
Click on view all
http://www.athaia.com/images/cartes/aruba_oranjestad.gif
http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/images/aruba2002.gif
See how close Montana is to the Gold Mine Ruins. (D7)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lysha/199165911/in/set-72157594191831720/
Although he doesn’t say which one, could this be the church Dave mentions in his book?
For those who have asked what and why crypts are used on Aruba: go here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lysha/199165905/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lysha/199165907/
They use crypts for above ground burial vaults because it is easier than digging six feet down in the hard ground for burials. Remember Aruba is an extinct volcano and the ground is extremely hard. Forget burials at the beach and the Fisherman’s Huts; as the sand is imported and is only about 18 inches deep. After that it is extremely difficult to dig a grave without a back hoe. Speaking of back hoes; the only reference in this case to a backhoe was on the Van der Sloot’s property. After the hole was dug the back hoe operator was asked to leave the property prior to the hole being filled.
Any shallow grave would have been dug up by wild dogs that roam the island.
Wild dogs are especially abundant in San Nicolas. So is an abundance of trash. It may be very possible the blood on the mattress found in Grape Field could have been from an animal. But yet we can’t forget the VCB shirt, glasses and liquid found in Lago Colony in San Nicolas.
For those who have asked about caves:
What is unseen is larger than what is seen.
http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_IN_ARUBA_MOYER/caves_of_aruba.htm
One has to examine what/who is being protected by the cover up.
A)Is it Joran? B)Is it Paulus? C)Is it the drug business? D)Is it the Tourist Business?
E)Is it the sons of prominent business men playing a game of hump the tourist on her last night on Aruba? F)Is it because Aruba is not one safe and happy island? G)Avoiding a forensic autopsy because of noticeable injuries sustained by Natalee.
H)All of the above. Best guess is “H”.
I have been asked about the rock videos and the plastic bag.
About the searches at the rock. I don’t believe a body was there especially not Natalee’s.
Again because of the wild animals an exposed body would not have survived intact.
In addition why video tape the experience?
The “body” in the plastic bag. Again why video tape the experience? It is very similar to Haunting Evidence and the Clausen Investigative Report. IMO they are all a red herrings.
I say we need to see the alibis for Paulus, Geoff von Cromvoirt, Michael Dompig. Guido (Marco), Lorenzo, Sanders, Freddie, Jaime, Steve Croes,Van der Straaten, Loco Stef and especially Koen Gottenbos; from 10:00PM 5/29/05 until 6:00PM 5/30/05. The ALE says they have them, but they have not been made public.
Therein I believe lay our answers.
Hey Guys!
Remember the sex slave industry does not require
that you ship a person to another country. You
can be sold into the sex slave industry within
your own country or in the country that you are
vacationing. In fact, you can be sold into a
state of slavery to only one person that can last
the rest of your life.
There is also an industry called “sex tourism”
which is a lucrative business all over the
world. An example is the brochure that you get
in certain Hotels in Aruba and elsewhere which
advertises that you can order a “Beautiful, Sexy
Woman” to your room… “couples accepted”.
There is also a phrase that’s used in the industry
called “fresh meat” which refers to someone like
Natalee that is innocent. These girls are the
most desired by the men that frequent sex slave
shops and the like. Unfortunately, because of her
innocence and her beauty, Natalee could have been
seeked out, stalked and set up for her abduction.
pattie:
San Nicolas is full of brothels, male clubs and supposidly is the only city were prostitution is legal on Aruba.
I’ve often wondered if Paulus and Van der Straaten jointly owned one or two.
Patti
I like your scenario. I don’t rule anything out.
But, I recall that Beth was told by the FBI, that they think Natalee met with foul play and was dead.
I too wonder why our government has not taken a strong stand on this case, I also wonder if the KLDP is not letting the clock run out, and as long as our government is told the KLDP is active in its investigation, the US may stay out of it until a close of the case.
Red Herrings all over. Was the bloody matress, the duct tape, bones, belt, etc, all part of a cover up for traffiking?
Why was Smid at the sloots home and denied the ALE to a complete search?
BY THE WAY IN 56 THAT IS D6 NOT D7
Miss U:
I don’t know… It seemed at the time that every
piece of what was promising evidence would get
ruled out. I still wonder if the hair on the
duct tape was hers, even though it tested negative. It felt like a roller coaster as each
piece was found, getting our hopes up, only to be
ruled out.
Sometimes I think it was all just a show put on
for the media and they knew where Natalee was the
whole time. Then, too, there is still a slither
of hope that she may still be alive. They talk
about people faking their deaths. I wonder if
they have any experience in faking someone elses
death.
Bottom line is: We have no evidence of her death.
Nothing we can put any credence into. And of all
the people in the world capable of making an
escape, Nat would be the one. Such torture they
have caused the family to, possibly, go for the
rest of their lives not knowing the truth about
what happened to Natalee.
*
1906:
I agree… there’s too much evidence, too much
said, but nothing concrete on which to base
a theory. Are those Crypts refrigerated or air
conditioned? Would she have been placed in a
coffin, somewhat protected from the environment?
Still, there would be slippage, darkening of the
skin and some decomposition, right? The body at
the rocks doesn’t show any of that. Would a crypt
make that possible?
Patti
If a body were placed in a crypt without embalming there would be accelerated decomposition and an extremely bad odor due to the confines of the crypt and the Aruban heat from the sun.
Well, if Tim Miller would get back to Aruba and search where he believes Natalee is in the water. We wouldn’t have to guess. Didn’t he tell Dave he knows where she is? He certainly seems in no hurry
#63 Mee….I keep wondering the same thing. IF Tim knows where Natalee is, why not go back and wrap this up so Natalee’s family and friends can have some closure? It makes no sense. I personally don’t think he has any intention of going back to Aruba and I don’t think he knows where she is. I don’t think anyone knows where Natalee is…except for the perps of course. The only way this will ever get solved and / or we will find Natalee is if someone talks or the ALE does their job…which will never happen.
I’m not trying to insult Tim…I think what he does is wonderful. However, don’t say you are going to do something when you have no intent whatsoever to do so. It gives too many false hope of closure.
1906:
That’s what I thought. But even embombing will
not stop the process, only slow it down. So if
that was Natalee at the rocks and in the bag,
she would have had to have been alive longer than
we think… maybe as long as 10 days. The vision
that I see of her doesn’t look like anyone that
was put through the embombing process with dried
but relatively fresh blood seeping from her wounds
and showing virtually no sign of decay. Like
someone said of the picture of her in the bag at
the water basin, she looked too perfect. The fact
that the chest wound is apparant in both picture
frames, makes me sure that it is the same person;
the one at the rocks and the one in the water
basin. But, if it were Natalee, she hadn’t been
dead for long. Instead, she was being held,
against her will, tied up somewhere and was taken
to the rock area later which is why Tim and Mr.
Holloway never found anything when they searched
that area. The amount of blood on the rocks and
even on the ground is consistant with her wounds.
Do you think that they put her in the crypt after
removing her from the water basin? I get the
impression that you think she was put there
before the search of the rocks area, embombed and
then buried under an alias or with another body,
or perhaps cremated.
“I have had a friend visiting me from Aruba and she told me the FBI were indeed on the Island in June for about two weeks.
Staff and management at the hotel where she works were advised FBI was there and could approach them with questions.”
posted by Starr on BFN
The above is good news as it supports previous beliefs and info.
As for Tim, he plans to search in November. It is a huge logistic undertaking and there have been a few delays.
#66…have the plans been changed, I thought Tim was going to Aruba in October..I know, unfortunately, his searches have now reached a priority level, look for those that might still be alive, they feel Natalee is 2 to 3 miles out and 800 to 1000 feet deep, if she is there, she will remain there until found, probably in a cage or some container heavily weighted, why they feel she is there, I don’t know…my guess would be they have the information they need…if you wanted to dispose of a body and remove all DNA, the sea would be the place. Too risky of being found on land.
The other side of this, is of course, abduction.
I maybe lean towards the sea because of what Deepak said, something bad happened and she hit her head. He spoke of returning Natalee to the hotel, which was a lie, but why add the, she hit her head getting out of car. Joran said Deepak put in a porno after Natalee got into the car, she probably got very upset and realize the danger she was in, maybe she jumped out of car, hit her head and died…or Joran pushed and kicked her out of car….that would explain what Deepak said about having chit all over her….
We should not rule out hate crime.
With all the America bashing and calling Natalee names, the stereotyping etc. this could have been a premediated hate crime.
I saw an interesting show today, about kidnapping in Columbia. It was said that only a small percentage of the people who go missing are reported missing because the family knows the rings that are doing the kidnapping and are afraid to even report thier loved ones missing out of fear they or their loved one will be executed.
The show talked about how not all those being kidnapped are from Columbia, but also from surrounding areas. And anyone who is familiar with this ongoing kidnapping (for sex trade, slaves in general, or dispensible soldiers) knows better than to even report their kids, wives, mothers etc missing.
And get this…the authorities also know better than to try to find a missing person if one is reported.
Hmmmm….
In response to questions above, I certainly have no evidence that Natalee either is alive or is in the sex trade. Neither do I have any evidence, in the form of HARD, COLD FACTS, that she is dead.
As I said, we can base theories on Internet surmises. But they provide slim proof.
Art Wood and Tim Miller may scoff at all of our ideas and may insist that they KNOW what happened and that they KNOW where Natalee’s body is in the waters off Aruba.
Who am I to say otherwise? I’m not saying they’re wrong, or that I’m right. But we must hold fast to the idea that we do not know.
If the water search (whenever it is carried out) turns up nothing, will Art Wood be willing to reconsider his hypotheses? Will others?
We’ve also discussed a possible alternative idea: as Patti is saying, that Natalee was held captive somewhere for some time, perhaps with the idea of disposal abroad, until the publicity that the case attracted made it too difficult.
In which case, a forced overdose of heroin might have been administered. Or a gunshot, or whatever.
We simply don’t know. My guess would be, if she were detained, the most likely places would be:
a. on a private boat
b. in a crack den (where presumably people aren’t too curious about others, and where people can be kept sedated by calculated dosage amounts)
c. in a private motel frequented by, and possibly owned by, drug lords as a “safe house.”
Other ideas?
As for what the FBI told Beth … guess who was giving them info, of sorts? The Aruban government.
We certainly can’t doubt their good will….
I also posted this story on a higher-up thread related to Natalee. It took place in West Virginia, and is horrible beyond belief.
Thank God that no bunch of ‘pimps,’ say in a Caribbean island like Aruba, could decide to subject an innocent American girl to such torture … or, worse, decide to subject her to the ultimate humiliation by turning her into a sex slave.
Aren’t we glad that such things aren’t possible.
Details emerge in W.Va. torture case By JOHN RABY and TOM BREEN, Associated Press Writers
1 hour, 1 minute ago
BIG CREEK, W.Va. – For at least a week, authorities say, a young black woman was held captive in a mobile home, forced to eat animal waste, stabbed, choked and repeatedly sexually abused — all while being peppered with a racial slur.
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It wasn’t until deputies acting on an anonymous tip drove to a ramshackle trailer deep in West Virginia’s rural hills that she was found. Limping toward the door with her arms outstretched, she uttered, “Help me,” the Logan County sheriff’s office said.
Six people, all white, including a mother and son and a mother and daughter, have been arrested and could face federal hate crime charges in the suspected attack on 20-year-old Megan Williams, who remained hospitalized Tuesday with injuries that included four stab wounds in the leg, and black and blue eyes. Her right arm was in a cast.
“I’m better,” Williams told The Associated Press in a voice barely above a whisper.
“I don’t understand a human being doing another human being the way they did my daughter,” Carmen Williams said Tuesday from the Charleston Area Medical Center. “I didn’t know there were people like that out here.”
The AP generally does not identify suspected victims of sexual assault, but Williams and her mother agreed to release her name.
A prosecutor said police are investigating the possibility that the victim was lured to the house and attacked by a man she had met online, but Carmen Williams insisted that wasn’t the case. “This wasn’t from the Internet,” she said.
Authorities were still looking for two people they believe drove the woman to the house where she was abused, said Logan County Chief Deputy V.K. Dingess. Deputies also interviewed Williams on Tuesday morning. An FBI spokesman in Pittsburgh, Bill Crowley, confirmed that the agency is looking into possible civil rights violations.
The case is “something that would have come out of a horror movie,” Logan County Sheriff W.E. Hunter said.
The home is in a forlorn part of Logan County about 50 miles southwest of Charleston, where the scattered homes are marked by “No Trespassing” signs. An old shed linked to a mobile home by an extension cord is what authorities say became a hellish prison for Williams.
Deputies found her when they drove to the home on Saturday after receiving an anonymous tip from someone who witnessed the abuse, officials said.
The woman was forced to eat rat and dog feces and drink from a toilet, according to the criminal complaint filed in magistrate court based on what the suspects told deputies. She also had been choked with a cord, it alleges. Deputies say the woman was also doused with hot water while being sexually assaulted.
One of those arrested, Karen Burton, is accused of cutting the woman’s ankle with a knife. She used the N-word in telling the woman she was victimized because she is black, according to the criminal complaint.
Carmen Williams said doctors told her daughter she may be well enough to leave the hospital within a few days, although a nurse said the young woman’s condition was listed as “under evaluation.”
“I just want my daughter to be well and recover,” Carmen Williams said. “I know the Lord can do anything.”
The six suspects were arrested Saturday and Sunday. Frankie Brewster, the 49-year-old woman who owns the home where the suspected attacks occurred, is charged with kidnapping, sexual assault, malicious wounding and giving false information during a felony investigation.
Her son, Bobby R. Brewster, 24, also of Big Creek, is charged with kidnapping, sexual assault, malicious wounding and assault during the commission of a felony.
Frankie Brewster was released from prison in September 2000 after serving five years for voluntary manslaughter and wanton endangerment in the death of an 84-year-old woman, according to court records.
Burton, 46, of Chapmanville, is charged with malicious wounding, battery and assault during the commission of a felony.
Her daughter Alisha Burton, 23, of Chapmanville, and George A. Messer, 27, of Chapmanville, are charged with assault during the commission of a felony and battery.
Danny J. Combs, 20, of Harts, is charged with sexual assault and malicious wounding.
All six remained in custody Tuesday in lieu of $100,000 bail each, and all have asked for court-appointed attorneys.
Dave Holloway said recently that the KLPD are investigating Natalee’s case as homicide. Deepak said if I knew where the body was I would tell you. Dompig said one of the 3 confessed and was leading the cops to the location. Paulus said without a body, they have no case. Straten said he believes Natalee is dead, he seen the evidence. Joran said Deepak raped and buried her. Karin Jansen told Beth, she believes this is a sex crime. Steve Cohen said 2 of the 3 had sex with Natalee and they expect them to be charged with murder and rape. 2 Security guards were held for kidnapping and murder. Cromvoirt was held for heavy battery against Natalee. Guido hired the lawyer that Slobodon Milosevic had. The FBI said it’s not looking good for Natalee, they aren’t denying a crime, they are pointing the finger at each other. That’s when Beth told the family and they began the grieving process. This sure don’t sound like someone who was sold or who is alive. As for Dr. Phil. He had tips called to him and they followed them up and found nothing to do with Natalee. Of course there would be people calling in, some for no other reason then to throw an investigation off like Deepak said he was doing. Just like the letter to Paulus about Natalee running away. Bogus BS. Like Michael Baden said last night, there are some who try to say Natalee ran away from her family. More Bogus BS. We’ve seen no evidence ever Natalee did anything but love her family very much and how responsible and level headed she was. Noone works as hard for a scholarship as she did to just run away or disappear on their own. She was 18 and could’ve went out and got in her car and left. She worked to earn the money to go to Aruba. I’ve heard of no American women in Aruba being kidnapped and sold into sex slavery and before Natalee’s story there were thousands of American young females going to Aruba. I believe all along this was a rape crime gone bad.
When first approached, Joran went into great sexual details and even described Natalee’s private body parts and underwear. All taking place at the lighthouse he said or on the way. It is so dark and Deepak’s car was so small how would all that be going on in that little car and how could he see all that in the dark. Deepak has told of the times all 3 were in the same hotel room having sex with girls. However remember Joran says he never did see Deepak and Satish with a girl. He has been having sex and drinking since he was 13 or so, he says. That drink on the way out of Carlos n Charlies, get the person to the car, before it takes effect?
This is Mickey Johns the security guard and what Deepak told him. Joran used this story right off when the cops showed up at his house the first night. In order for the father to meet with them and they all sat around and made the story up, they would’ve had to done it before it was public Natalee was missing.
JOHN: No (INAUDIBLE) never knew who he was, because he certainly was calling me Jamaican. He thought I was from Jamaica. So he was just talking to me freely and, you know, no problem.
I spoke to him more, and I tell him, “Tell me the truth,” asking, “You saw the guy on the news?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “Where the guy from?” He tell me, he think from Grenada. And right away, I knew he was talking about me, because I was the only one from Grenada.
So I decided to ask him a few more questions. And I said, “So you tell the guy (INAUDIBLE) what happened to the girl?” He said, “No.” (INAUDIBLE) arrested on Thursday. I think a guy should be released that Friday, because, in their hearts, they know we were innocent.
He said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy’s father, they sit and made up the story.
VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?
JOHN: All of them. They made up…
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?
JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.
VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?
JOHN: Well, I don’t know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him. They made up the story, and they say that they didn’t drop the girl off, because they said they would give the police something to (INAUDIBLE) when somebody is missing in Aruba, they would find them a few days later by a crack house or with some beach bum or something.
I have faith in Tim when he says they are going to do it, if there’s any way possible, they will. I received my T-shirts, an autographed picture from him and also one of the posters about Natalee missing, like the ones that were up in Aruba.
Well said Maggie!!!!!!!!!
Richard:
Thank you for your comment. The part about there being so much attention paid to the case being a possible reason for having to kill Natalee is something that I have thought about, but didn’t want to say. Certainly, I don’t think that Natalee is still alive, even though a part of me wishes it were so. I’m glad that you understood that what I meant to say is that there is a good possibility that she was kept alive for several days. So many people think that sex slavery is something that has only one set of circumstances. It doesn’t. A person can be kidnapped and forced into sex slavery treatment for days, weeks, months or years. They can be privately held or shared among a group. They can be sold and then resold if they live that long; or they can be subjected to drug addiction and forced to work in brothels. There are no rules. The example that you posted about what happened in Charleston is in my mind what being a sex slave for a few days might be like. It is degrading to the lowest level. Let’s hope that Nat didn’t have to suffer like that.
My point, when I say that there is no concrete evidence, is that there is no body. There is no dna. There are no cooperating witnesses to the crime, per se, and I might add that if there had of been, they likely would be scared off just as Disgusted Mom describes as occuring in Columbia.
An important point to be made is that there are sex slave activities going on day in and day out on the island of Aruba. Perhaps American women can come and go without noticing it or without being effected by it but it is happening, right there under their noses. Why abduct an American woman, especially a rich, educated woman when you can go to Columbia and have girls begging to be abducted, in a sense. To have an American woman, like Natalee, is like hitting the jackpot in the eyes of many of these Columbian drug dealers… but they are reminded, all too soon, of the cultural and societal differences; which, to most, is not worth the problems.
Natalee was a lady… a sweet, gentle, kind chick
that was right on the verge of leaving the nest and taking flight. Who ever stole her freedom and hurt her should rot in hell. He was a diablo, a devil, who seeked out what he could never have freely. But he will pay, dearly, when the story is told and it will be told because Natalee will never go away until we all know what they did to her. I, firmly, believe that. Wherever she was held. Whether it was the Holiday Inn, the local crack house or a mansion, the truth will be told.
Maggie says that they all sat as a family and came up with their stories. I’m sure they did because they knew that this was no Columbian desperately looking for a better life, or a cohler that wouldn’t be missed. This was a lady that had a lot of friends and a family that would never give up until they found her. This one would not go missing, unnoticed. She will always be missed. Kidnapping this one will, for sure, land you in jail.
Boycott Aruba!!!
****************
P.S. I hope this isn’t a double post. My computer is having a Sloot attack or memory
lapse… atleast I think it’s my computer
(Smiles)
Straaten gave signed documents to Paulus and they were altered..here fix them…put the squash on Dompig..and he changed his story…Aruba was not equipped to handle what was necessary to proceed effectively and they knew it, so just screw it all up, plus Straaten gave the orders, Dompig didn’t want to look like an ass so he made up, “this is the final phase”, I need to look like I’m doing my job. Per Straaten, cover it up anyway you can but make it look like we’re investigating to the limits.
So where is Natalee Joran…you need to be hung up by your balls(excuse me folks)but what is left to say…!!! You know, and you like the grief everyday that you can make people suffer…fok der bitch…I know and I will tell you someday…well someday, someone is going to knock the block off of your psychopathic head……!!!!
..and Patti…you are right, Natalee would be like hitting the jackpot, in many eyes, not only Colombia…it would be like stealing the gold…by now she could just about anywhere…China…Amy Bradley also disappeared in the islands of(Dutch Antilles)…I don’t know what cruise ships where in dock that night…but another possibility…Paulus paid for passage….via container…! So, she might still be alive…Everybody lies…so who do we believe!
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t the FBI allowed to sit in on the interogations? I recall that the FBI agents were frustrated that the ALE did not follow up with questioning during the interogation that may have lead to further statements. The FBI implied that the ALE’s approach was soft?
Does anyone know what the legal protocol for the USA, if any, will be available and when in this case?
Young woman are mere toys to the perverts and drug lords!!!!!!
The thing that I couldn’t stand about Mr. Jan (Van der Straaten) was his cockiness. He would stand right up to you and tell you to go straight to hell without even blinking one of those thick, long eyelashes. He simply didn’t give a f*ck. The family begged for his help in the investigation soon after they arrived in Aruba (he LOOKS like a smart enough guy) and he told them that if they didn’t like the way the investigation was going, he would, simply end it. He is a heartless bastard that has no compassion for anyones feelings… no empathy, at all, for the parents of this missing “girl”.
He’s the biggest pig at the trough. The one that pushes his way side to side to get as much as he can and in hindsight I think that he was the one that was really in charge of EVERYTHING including the disposal of Natalee. This wasn’t some kid’s show of defiance going on here, it was short and sure dirty politics mixed in with a hearty supply of hog slop! And because of Van der Straaten, the whole police department followed suit. There are alot of people who are responsible for what happened to Natalee and Van der Straaten is our leading man!
For over a year, I have waited thinking that he would be the one with the honor to stand up for what is right, but now I find that he was nothing more than just another pig getting more than his fair share of the slop. He deserves to be put out of his misery as he will never be able to live up to the ego that he has created in his own mind. He has no conscience, at all, and might as well be dead. He is an empty shell of a man, worth only his weight in sausage.
Of all the characters that played their parts, he was the one that was the most disappointing. A big powerful man, a leader, that was turned the wrong direction a long time before Natalee ever came along. So if there is to be hate in this world, let it go to the man that deserves it the most….
Yep. Dompig and Mr. Jan were complete opposites. Van der Straaten had all the power but didn’t have a heart and Dompig had the heart, you could see it in his eyes, but was powerless. Too little, too late; the bird had flown.
Everyday, I pray for justice. I pray that he reach out his hand and give us peace. I pray that Jehovah, the most powerful God of the universe reveal the truth by touching the heart of a lost soul and making it soft, not hard; meek, not abrasive; and humble, not proud. But, mostly, I pray that he will reveal our enemies and spoil their schemes; crushing them at our feet.
Either way… we will see Natalee, again.
I thought that I was really going to catch hell for my comment up above. Luckily, I didn’t.
I’m not saying there is no reason to think that Natalee isn’t dead, whether by accident (which is the theory Dave Holloway has advanced; a combination of too much alcohol, medication for a cold that she was taking, and probably a date-rape drug). And I’m certainly not saying that she ran away.
What I’m saying is that we do not have a body, we do not have a crime scene, we do not have (depending on your interpretation of that Chicago video) anything remaining from an assault.
Nobody has seen or heard of Natalee for over two years … or at least nobody who has talked about it. So it is only logical to say that she is dead.
But remember Elizabeth Smart, on whom some kind of mind control was worked. She was seen walking down the road and, when brought in, tried to deny her identity.
Remember the Shawn Hornbeck (spelling?) case … the boy in Missouri who was kidnapped by the pervert. At some point he was guarded by another boy who had been kidnapped some five years earlier. That boy had been seen in public with his captor, had been on the Internet, and had even been IN A POLICE CAR.
Common sense would dictate that he would have told the police who he was, begged to be taken home, and led the police to his kidnapper.
Common sense was not what happened.
My point is this: we cannot come to any facile conclusion, or write off the possibility that she was indeed taken abroad. If that happened, she probably would have been forced to become dependent on drugs for a time.
IT HAPPENS.
Maggie, you say it didn’t happen to her because it hasn’t happened to other American girls on Aruba. I don’t think that’s a conclusive argument … nor in fact am I convinced that it hasn’t happened before, though I can’t advance you any proof.
We know that the body of the American boy who was out windsurfing was never recovered. The inference is that he was accidentally drowned, and that is probably the case. But “probably” is not “certainly.”
I’m just saying that we have to keep our minds open to the possibility that our “conventional wisdom” might not apply in this case.
(By the way, my idea was not that she was specifically targeted for the world of sex slavery, though that too is not impossible, but that somebody or other decided to subject her to this when she woke up from the drugs, would not be cowed by J2K or whoever, etc. People write this off as unrealistic, even as they are ready to make these people murderers.
(And some time ago I posted a story here of a Caribbean drug lord whose private island was seized, as well as $90 million in cash just hanging around in safe houses. What kind of power do you think such a person would possess?
Do you think that someone might have decided that he would ‘enjoy’ a young blond, an American?
Do you think these people would have moral scruples about getting rid of a threat to themselves, and enriching themselves in the process? Re-read that story about the tortures done in West Virginia by a group.)
Needless to say, I don’t have evidence. I’m just asking that people keep their minds open and be willing to question their preconceptions. I am certainly ready to admit that my ideas are all hooey, once they have been PROVEN to be so.
But given the cover-up that we have seen in Aruba, I think that something bigger than three punk kids is involved. And I still believe that while accidental death, or even murder, might be forgiven by the American public IF there had been prompt prosecution … nobody, ever, would go to Aruba or let their children go there if forced sex slavery had occurred.
Only an idea.
I know, it’s melodramatic and unrealistic. It doesn’t happen. (Except it does.)
Up above, it should read … “whether by accident (etc.) … or murder.”
#56
1006, you make a great point about it not being feasible to bury a body on that volcanic ruin called Aruba.
I’d heard that before about the ground being so hard, but I didn’t know the sand depth was so shallow!
Now that you’ve said that, I have to believe if Natalee was disposed of on the island she was thrown or put INTO something like….
1. An old mine
2. An old well
3. A crypt with another body
4. Is still in someone’s basement or shed or garage in some sealed container.
5. The pet cemetary
If not still on the island…
6. shipped off with the hazardous waste from the hospital
Those of course, would be for a corpse.
If she is/was still alive….
7. shipped off as cargo to sex trade, by boat or plane.
8. put on a private plane as a passenger to destinations unknown for sex trade.
I have problems with some of the above because they involve the cooperation of too many people. And I really don’t think too many people know what happened to Natalee. The more I weight the elements of this case in my mind, the more I think Jan VDS disposed of the body for his good buddy PVDS.
I lean toward Paulus coming to the rescue of his impulsive son as he has always done. And I do not think Joran knows what daddy did with Natalee. And I don’t think Paulus could cover up a missing person by himself, so I think Jan would be his man of the hour. And I think Jan alone knows where Natalee is….sort of like breaking the chain of custody so no one can really rat anyone else out- without involving themselves.
I wonder how much contact Paulus has had with Jan these past couple years? It would be interesting to know if they’ve stayed in touch openly.
Just trying to narrow things down by rumors that have leaked out using other examples of too much information leading in different directions.
It was mentioned that Lorenzo had possession of Natalee’s clothing and Lorenzo
(Mr XTC) has a basement where all sorts of activities happen. Remember the police automatically excluded Lorenzo from the suspects. Art Wood’s encounter with Dennis Jacobs and the “Wall of Suspects” computer printout.
Perhaps it was Joran’s intention to take Natalee to his house for something. Maybe a camera. Then take Natalee to Lorenzo’s house where the other pimps were waiting.
One straight path to Rave’s house. His street is not paved and his house is yellow building blocks.
Something bad happens to Natalee and Deepak, Satish and Joran are forced to leave. On the way back to Hooieberg Joran is dropped off at the McDonalds in Santa Cruz and the brothers continue home. Joran calls his father to come get him at the McDonalds at 4:00AM.
Paulus, Lorenzo, Joran and Jan van der Straaten all together decide to get rid of Natalee and they call Rene. Remember, Rene, (bifron) the operator of the Industrial Incinerator and the one at Oduber Hospital. In early June 2005; maybe the 6th, he was the one that was found dead in the Government building parking lot near the cemetery at Sabana Basora and this is about a mile away from Lorenzo’s house in Rooi Koochi which is a stone’s throw from San Nicolas.
Anyway; there are ATM’s in San Nicolas that Paulus could have access. Van der Straaten is from San Nicolas and so is Rene. Rene is paid to get rid of Natalee and later Rene is eliminated.
Joran picked up the bus for school near Lorenzo’s on Monday.
OR:::: Guido is at Lorenzo’s and they are changing Natalee’s appearance to get her ready for some video show at a brothel in San Nicolas. Natalee being left alone for awhile grabs a cell phone and makes that mysterious phone call. :I don’t even know these people”. It was mentioned that a monkey was screaming in the background in that call; similar to the Sloot’s neighbor’s monkey. Or it could have been an exotic bird at Lorenzo’s.
These noises may sound the same over the phone. My question concerning if Lorenzo had any exotic birds was never answered. By the way is Lorenzo still in jail pending prosecution and sentencing or is he in jail to be made available for his drug bosses. Just in case he wanted to fly the coop so to say.
In this scenario Guido in trying to subdue Natalee; he kills her.
Or Geoff is there and out of revenge he kills Natalee.
You basically start out with four having left Carlos and Charlie’s; the three pimps made it home. Natalee did not and is still missing. What did you do with Natalee?
From there on; based on stories, witness accounts, lies and whatever; it is a shot gun approached as to what happened.
#87 buiding on…OR Natalee was lured away to do some Toursit (fake)photos for Aruba. They take her to Lorenzo’s to change, hence her clothes are there. The people there are not the same ones she’d met earlier who approached her to do the ‘fake’ photoshoot. She makes a call saying I don’t know THESE people because she is scared now because those who originally approached her are not there?
The ‘fake’ photoshoot was to be one of those sunrise affairs, and Natalee had told at least one of her friends about it, hence why no one went looking for her until after 8AM and why Joran mentioned ‘staying out all night’?
Joran only dumped her there, didn’t stay and was not supposed to stay, but Natalee didn’t know that or else she’d not have said he would bring her back to the hotel. (that Nat said to her friend’s that They would bring her BACK to the hotel I find significantly interesting in her use of the word BACK. Natalee was intelligent. She would not have thrown in unnecessary words and said BACK unless she were going somewhere else before going BACK to the HI and not just riding with Joran to the HI directly from CC’s. Think about it. She’d have left out the work BACK if she had planned on going straight to the HI with Joran, and whomever she said that to, might have known she was going somewhere else, or she would not have felt the need to say BACK to this person who complained she get out of the car.)
And it was not a photoshoot, but maybe a kidnapping for the brothel industry, not in Aruba….but maybe Bonaire, which is not holding its own very well in tourism dollars against what Aruba brings in for the Dutch motherland of so much sex slavery notoriety?
So who might Natalee have thought was going to be shooting the photoshoot that morning? Here’s where it gets interesting….
I’m putting a disclaimer that the person I’m about to mention probably wasn’t involved, but his name may have been used to lure Natalee to believe the shoot was for real.
Shango said…WHERE IS JAKE?
Jake Reichter is a well known photographer for post cards and calendars for Caribbean islands. Look him up. He is from the USA, has lived in multiple states, travels alot (out of a suitcase?) so much so that he advertises that people can HOUSE SIT his home in Bonnaire for free and all they have to do is buy their own supplies. Jake now lives in Bonnaire and might MIGHT be old friends with a registered sex offender in Arizona (sorry, can’t mention that guy’s name because of his ‘rights’). Jake is particularly known for filming Scuba sites (Shango also mentioned to look for something to do with Scuba). You can read more about him online.
Now I’m not saying Jake is involved, like I said, but as I think Shango is FOS acting like he’s trying to help and is a hinter, he might include hints about Jake R simply because his name was used to lure Natalee away. Natalee might know of Jake R if she has any calendars of Aruba.
I thought I read somewhere that Natalee was interested in art. If so, another reason why she might know of Jake R and why someone may have used his name as a trust thing for the evil they really had planned for her.
I do think it’s highly possible Natalee went to do what she thought was a tourism shoot, went to Lorenzo’s to ‘change’, got suspicious after not seeing Jake R show up, made a call, scared the kidnappers who called Paulus to come get her and figure out what to do with her OR they just shot her as she was trying to escape, put her in a plastic bag and took one of Lorenzo’s boats out and dumped her, she washed up in the ‘catch-all’ basin….then something else I have no clues.
I like the idea of Lorenzo being arrested all of a sudden when they have known of his activities for so long. If he’s in jail, he may be there for the same reason I think they put Joran in there…temporary safe keeping.
And I like this idea about Joran’s missing shoe….the kidnappers may have taken his damn shoe to make sure he didn’t get too far too fast until they had time to do their thing.
One more thing to add that makes me think Natalee was lured for some ‘fake’ something like a photoshoot…Joran says if he’s stayed home that night ‘this would not have happened to me; it would have happened to somebody else’…could that mean she was going to be taken by someone if he didn’t do it?
Surely, his words at least indicate it was going to happen with or without him.
Richard:
I agree with you SOOOO much in regards to this not being a cover up for some punk kids who had a night out on the town that ended in disaster. Or even that this was simply a rape that went awry. The amount of effort that has been put into the cover-up, the shredding of documents, the loss of evidence and even the filming of the Chicago video is over-whelming.
There are three people missing from the island since Natalee went out that night: Guido Wever, who is from the most wealthy family on the island; the dealer at the casino where I believe the purchase of Natalee was executed. Mike Posner, the owner of the casino and a legend in organized crime; and, ofcourse, Natalee.
Natalee went missing on May 30. The stories told by the three boys that were last seen with her come and go, all of them lies. The Police Commisioner, who is a legend in his own right when it comes to covering up crimes against women, makes statements over and over again that Natalee is dead. The family, Tim Miller and even the people of the island are all busy looking for her remains, doing most of the investigative work on their own or through the use of interviews conducted by the media. Then low and behold, there is a confession, supposedly, and the police make a trip to the rocks near the Lighthouse to find what? Natalee. But if you look at her, she doesn’t look like a girl who has been dead for weeks. Her body, covered in blood, obviously didn’t wash up with the surf and it is evident that she wasn’t there for long. Besides, that area had been searched over and over again. A pair of womens underwear had been found there, but there was no body. A piece of duct tape with blonde hair had been found not far from that area, but no body. So tell me how is it that after 10 days of “missing” and presumed dead does a fresh body appear? Natalee HAD to have been kept somewhere, alive for ten days.
If you look at the Chicago videos, there is blood everywhere. There is blood on the large rock and even on the ground. Natalee, who’s complete body is in view, shows signs of torture. Her ankles have what’s left of blood dripping from what appear to be rope burns. A portion of her right arm appears to be missing and there is a visible hole at her lower left shoulder blade where a massive amount of blood ran down that entire portion of her body to below her hip.
So you have to ask yourself. Why did Van der Straaten insist that Natalee was dead, saying that he had seen the evidence and sending the family on a wild goose chase? But more than that, why did JORAN go to school and tell the boys that he had taken her swimming and she had drowned? Why did the authorities state that there was blood in a car, that later turned out to be chocolate? Is it possible that they WANTED everyone to think that Natalee was dead?
Again… there where three people missing:
Guido Wever
Mike Posner
Natalee Holloway
Patti:
Actually three more who may have been involved that are now deceased.
Rene, Pitbull and R Bensen.
88 and 89 disgustedmom:
Makes sense to me. Natalee was stalked from what appears to be day two of her trip. Day two Natalee and her roommates’ room is changed to a ground level floor. I don’t know if it was requested by the MBHS girls or the hotel management. If it was the hotel management, my guess is they were moved to that room because there was a hidden video camera installed where someone could sample the merchandise. After Natalee disappears that room was renovated.
Remember Joran distances himself from Natalee by saying he was more interested in Ruth. However at the casino sitting next to Ruth I don’t believe he even knew who Ruth was. He may have been outvoted. Joran may have thought Ruth would have been the better choice but Natalee was the pick because of the blond hair and blue eyes and a body that was not overdeveloped. Much like a preteen. According to Beth when they described the girl at the jewelry store; Beth said that girl had larger breast than Natalee.
Haunting Evidence mentions that she was observed/stalked from day two. HD also said that Natalee had a habit of going off by herself.
Other than to discredited Natalee, I could not understand the purpose of the xxx rated video that I found that is titled Natalee and Joran parts I and II.
The girl was a good look a like double. Joran’s double was not. That video has since disappeared.
Rumors had her approached by Mr. Pink Productions and even having dinner with someone from the porn industry. However; Natalee probably did not know that fact. I picked up on the word “back” also from the Dutch re enactment. I didn’t want to get slammed, but it was my impression that Natalee knew she was going somewhere before being taken back to the Hotel. Natalee could have been drugged at C and C’s and the drug did not take affect right away. Maybe that is why they drove around the block a few times was to make sure Natalee was under. Then they stopped so Deepak could phone ahead that they in fact did hit the jackpot with the tourist that they wanted. (They???)
If we assume that somehow, somebody on the evil side of things got a glimpse of Natalee, perhaps if only by chance, and said “That’s the one!” … then the stalking, etc., makes perfect sense.
Who knows? Perhaps the “Pimps” (I continue to think that there is significance in that name as relates to Natalee’s saga … not to mention that Papa vdScum took down the Web site they used as soon as Joran was brought in to the police (funny that nobody ever seems to have questioned him on that) … really did think they could break into the world of porn producers.
I’m sure that the idea of using and abusing girls and young women, and making money that way, would have appealed to these people, honor student though Joran was reputed to have been.
And maybe someone kept pushing the envelope … if a tourist girl can be used, abused, and taken as property, why not make her someone’s property?
Who cares about the Americans anyway?
Wouldn’t it be great to take one of those rich Americans who come to Aruba … and make her life a living hell … and nobody would ever get us!
Smirk, smirk … hey, guys, think we can really pull it off? It’s a step up from drugging and raping Aruban girls ….
Let’s push the envelope a little more….
Joran says he was more interested in Ruth than Natalee. Well, I guess that’s conclusive; the one thing we know is that Joran never lies.
Perhaps I’m grasping at straws … but let’s remember that Jan van der Straaten early in the investigation made that famous remark about knowing that Natalee was dead “because I’ve seen the evidence and you haven’t.”
Very curious, then, that his office some months later quietly asked neighboring nations to be on the lookout for Natalee Holloway.
I mean, it makes perfect sense to make this request when he KNOWS she is dead.
One thing that such comments do accomplish: slow, stall and frustrate any investigations into the possible alternatives. Such as that she wasn’t dead … but that Aruba wouldn’t dare allow anyone to think that.
richard; it sounds like a very dangerous game but blame the game don’t blame the players.
If you keep someone alive and you want the world to believe the victim is dead you hype DEAD. If you know the victim is dead and you want to give the world hope the victim is alive you hype where to look for the victim. We have had both- which is true; or at one time were they both true?
I think the game was hump the female tourist having the last night fling before going home. All the pimps do it. They have done it at least 20 times and nothing ever went wrong.
from 92″. Day two Natalee and her roommates’ room is changed to a ground level floor. I don’t know if it was requested by the MBHS girls or the hotel management. If it was the hotel management, my guess is they were moved to that room because there was a hidden video camera installed where someone could sample the merchandise. After Natalee disappears that room was renovated.” This would have given the pimps time to check at the front desk when these students would be leaving. Then give them the room with the camera. Then make the selection.
It would seem that everyone was after Natalee;
The blond blue eyed Dutch Boy.
Geoff many nights at C and C’s.
Joran on various days and nights.
Perhaps Mr Pink.
Maybe even Lorenzo.
Could have been Paulus also in the casino.
But who else of the female MBHS group was ever hit on. NO ONE.
Tell me the name of just ONE other girl in that group that any advance on her was made.
94:
richard, does Joran look interested in Ruth sitting next to him?
Does Ruth look interested in Joran sitting next to her?
Does Natalee look interested in Paulus sitting next to her?
Does Paulus engage in conversation with Natalee?
Body language usually does not lie.
Joran said he was interested in a different one besides Ruth on Greta’s show, then it was Ruth. Joran had been gambling with the Twitty’s twins before that evening. He has lied and lied to do everything he can to dis Natalee. In his current affair interview, he blamed it all on Natalee.
I had no clue at the first of Natalee’s disappearance and kept an open mind. Just as with the Maddie MCCann case, based on what I’ve seen so far I don’t believe the parents had anything to do with her disappearance. I don’t see the means, motive and opportunity. I am willing to change my mind if something further comes up. Maddie’s parents dining outside would be equal to someone at a outdoor cookout and going in to check on the kids off and on.
After watching this for months with Natalee’s case. It is clear to me, they were willing to frame someone for the crimes of kidnapping and murder. The first few days, IF and that’s a big IF a cop was truly trying to find out what happened to Natalee, they would’ve separated these 3 and questioned them over and over and one would’ve cracked. They knew very shortly that Natalee wasn’t returned to the Holiday Inn and yet they chose to pursue 2 security guards, who’s clothes didn’t match the description and didn’t even work at that hotel. In fact Deepak says Beth said she saw on the camera Natalee wasn’t returned on the night they first arrived at the house. They would’ve searched any and all of the properties of the 3. I truly believe Straten knows exactly what happened. His hands are all over the investigation in the crucial time period to investigate. He was the one in charge, so what ever did and didn’t happen goes back to him. Even when he was taken off the case, he was still going in meeting with Jacobs, who was put on the case, probably appointed by Straten, not sure.
All three of the suspects had the means, motive and opportunity to harm Natalee. They were the last 3 seen with her and she was never seen again. They have hours they have no corroboration for. They have stories, they have changed repeatedly, they have conflicting stories. Not one person seen them after they left Carlos n Charlies that night or one piece of evidence that places them definitely here or there. Nadira blew her son’s timeline on a tape shown on Dr. Phil. They said after she realized that, she tried to get the tape back or keep them from showing it. They have 2 saying she’s drunk. Joran is saying she wasn’t. Based on what was reported she drank and him serving her that drink on the way out, she had to be more intoxicated than he says.The only reason he says she wasn’t is because his reason for going to the beach wouldn’t fly. We went to the beach for sex. Can’t go to the beach for sex if she’s drunk, because the consent matter comes up not only for sex, but being abandoned if she were drunk. We went to the beach she wasn’t drunk and we were going to have sex and I had no condom so she stayed there and I went home.
I watched a case similar to this one on American Justice, where the prom or homecoming queen went to a party and was drunk. 3 guys there took turns raping her and then they killed her so she couldn’t tell on them. Guys denied everything, didn’t know nothing about it. Took 2 years and one of the guys went to the cops and said he couldn’t live with himself. He lead them to where they buried her. He said he wanted no special deal, whatever he got he deserved. He got life and the other 2 got the death penalty.
Elizabeth Smart was found with the guy who abducted her. That case wouldn’t have went on so long if the cops would have allowed the sketch of the man, her little sister seen, out in the public. I think AMW put it out and the guy was spotted shortly. Shawn Hornbeck was found with the man who abducted him.
If I would see anything that would lead me to believe Natalee was sold or bought or traded, I am sure I would feel different.
Joran is the type of person who does nothing unless it benefits himself. The world to him revolves around him. The night in question, according to these 3, Deepak and Satish went home and showered and cleaned the car, just to take Joran to Carlos n Charlies and then to drive Joran and Natalee around and then for Deepak, or Satish to come pick him up. What a big night for the Kalpoes. The whole story is wishy washy. Too many coincidences, too many bad things said about Natalee by them. Just like they had to degrade her to justify what they done to her. Not to mention them saying Joran would get 15 years if they find her and they will see that Chit if they find her. That is one sick family. It makes me sick every time I read about Anita and the 3 thick kisses or Anita describing to Beth Natalee’s underwear and Paulus sweating and needing bath towels. For years they let Joran run the streets at all hours of the night underage drinking and gambling , bringing home little girls in his own place for sleep overs. Like the FBI profile, this is a person who is used to getting his own way and if someone tells him no, look out. I don’t for a minute believe Natalee took off with 3 strange men of her own free will for what they say happened.
Dr Michael Baden again last night talked about Aruba again last night when talking about Maddie’s case. 3 nights in a row now , he’s mentioned how tourism for both places were first and noone wants it known a tourist was murdered by a local. I am positive there are other things about these 3′s past we are unaware of so far. They have fought against allowing more documents in the Dr. Phil case.
He sure got quiet along with others, when the KLPD showed up to search his parents place.
VAN DER SLOOT: Interested? No, not really. I was more talking — the girl that was sitting next to me, I was — I thought she was pretty and I was talking to her. And when I went — what the point was for going to Carlos ‘n Charlie’s was I wanted to actually meet up with her.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember her name?
VAN DER SLOOT: I don’t — I didn’t remember it, but I remember it now because I heard it afterwards. I think her name was Kathleen.
Maggie:
The comment made by Deepak about Natalee was made in retaliation. Saying that someone’s daughter is not all that perfect is not exactly a frontal attack. What was said on Dr. Phil is still open for debate.
This is a transcript of the conversation in the back of a squad car on June 24… two weeks after the supposed confession and the cover-up at the rocks.
Do you think that Deepak and Satish know what happened to Natalee?
************************************************
Deepak: How does it feel Joran?
Joran: (with raised voice) You let my father be arrested, friend.
Deepak: (very calm) That’s what I say. How does it feel?
Joran: You know no good that my father has nothing to do [with this}. I have read your statements, friend. You two are lying shit. (then very calmly) You know what happened with that girl. If you don't know it, then nothing happened. (then angrily) So, fxxx you. What do you say, that Freddy has to be arrested?
Deepak: That Freddy has to tell the truth.
Joran: You know very well that Freddy has told the truth.
Satish: You will see, you will see.
Deepak: You could have prevented it from the beginning, this, of your father. You know it. That he wasn't arrested.
Joran: How? How? (stretches "how" out) You declare shit against him. My father only wanted to help you, friend. Only to help you was what my father wanted. My father himself arranged your lawyers. And this is how you pay it back. (now with an angry voice) I should hit you both once [een klap moeten geven].
Deepak: Then try it. You can make it better in one time.
Joran: About what? You can also make it better.
Deepak: You just have to tell the truth. Tomorrow, I’ll get my last 8 days and then I’m going home.
Joran: That’s what you think.
Deepak: I’m going home.
Joran: Wait until I’m going to tell stuff ABOUT you two. Then we’ll see if you two are going home.
Deepak: I guarantee you.
Joran: Don’t you think that the police is interested in knowing that Satish touched a girl with the car? [the word 'geraakt' is being used, translated here literally, but you can use the word 'hit' also in the context].
Satish: He heh one [?], you let me laugh boy, just laugh.
Deepak: (to Joran) You know dang well, you always try to put bullshit between us.
Joran: (to Deepak) Then you’re going to tell shit about the ChoHer [choller]? I have helped you with that that shit of the choller friend.
Deepak: And, I also said that.
Joran: That I have not read. I have also read that statement.
Satish: That of the chollers was from me.
Deepak or Satish: I have already told that before. I have also said that in my first statement.
Satish: I said it in my own interest.
Joran: That is what the police tells me now. Police says now to me, like, if you two go against me, I’ll go against you two.
Brothers: (laughing) Hehehehehehehe.
Satish: We don’t put you in trouble. We just tell the truth.
Joran: That you two don’t do. The half of what you two have said isn’t the fxxxing truth. It will come forward. Just like they check me, they check you two also.
Satish: With us, with us, can they get evidence, but with you not. [ a bit unclear: It's: bij ons, bij ons. Kunnen zij bewijzen krijgen, maar bij jou nief] With lies, you don’t get evidence,
Joran: All that shit of “Karen,” all of you two don’t know of no shit. Fxxx you two.
Deepak: You think that the girl has nothing on, you will see who fxxxed who (this sentence was not good to understand) [note of the police officer]
Joran: We will see. Hey, you know when I will laugh, if I’ve given you a slap in the face. I’ll laugh when they find the girl alive, fxxx you.
Joran: I know very well that you are afraid. That is if you two have done something bad with that girl. En if they find the girl, then we shall see
Satish: I’m not afraid. Why must I be afraid?
Deepak: I want them to find the girl. You are going to tell shit about me that I have buried the girl at fishermans hut
Joran: Who has said about burying? I didn’t say anything about burying.
Deepak: That’s what you have stated. Stop with that bullshit.
Joran: I have said nothing about burying. The only thing what I can think of, is that you know people that it is the people of automotive enterprises.
Satish: Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah,yeah,yeah, then I had a flat tire, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah… I picked you up, right. And then I went back to the beach for her.
Joran: Who has said that?
Satish: You said that.
Joran: I have never said that friend. I have never said that you went back, friend.
Joran: That’s your problem. If they find that girl, then they will see that shit.
Deepak: Eight more days and then I’m going home, I guarantee you that for a 1000 per cent.
Joran: We will see.
Deepak: (to Joran) You don’t give a shit about your, the members of your own family.
Joran: The only thing that I can think of is my family. I do what my family tells me to do. Right, retard.
Deepak: Your own father, unbelievable.
Joran: What my father, it is your fault that he is arrested. I didn’t declare anything against my father, you two declared against my father
Satish: We didn’t declare anything.
Joran: Or course, you did.
Satish: What did I tell against your father?
Joran: You are telling that he declared, that if there is no body [lijk = dead body], there is no case or I don’t what. All shit. That is totally not true, the only thing is that he said is, if there is no body [lichaam = body], then there isn’t a case.
Deepak: Yes, that’s true.
Joran: That’s not true.
Deepak: I also said in my statement, that it wasn’t meant like that.
Joran: Didn’t read it in your statement. They use that now against my father.
Deepak: We suffered a lot because of you.
Joran: That’s the price that you let my father pay. That you let him suffer like that. Fxxx you. If you let me suffer, I say ok. It doesn’t matter to me. I can just sit here for 160 days. It doesn’t make a fxxxing difference to me. I’m sitting good here.
Brothers: Me too. Me too.
Joran: And you Satish, they’re telling me that you asshole, see ghosts in the [jail]cell. They told me that you saw the girl in your cell and that you were very scared.
Satish: Me seeing ghosts? Two other boys were seeing ghosts. You also believe the people who are here in jail. That has nothing to do with ghosts and that is just garbage shit what you say.
Joran: They talk good about me, but not good about you. And also the two security guards, they have guaranteed me that they will kill you two, if you go out of jail.
Deepak: Oh, yes.
Joran: Who has declared about the security guards, you not me. Why? because I don’t want to put anyone in trouble who has nothing to do with the case.
Deepak or Satish:(screaming) That lie was for you.
Joran: You admitted that.
Deepak or Satish:(screaming) That lie was for you.
Joran: You two paid him off, right.
Brothers: ha ha ha ha ha ha
Joran: You said then via the telephone like, that I have the jackpot. You said now [?] through the phone , I have the fxxxing jackpot. You forget that the phone is tapped, right?
Satish or Deepak: Shut your trap [hou je bek]
Joran: You forget that, right retard? Then you arrive home and you say how you arranged everything. You say “I have fixed it”. Good for you [meaning your own fault]. because of you he is also in jail.
Deepak: Yeaaaaaaaaahhh! Yeahhhhhhhhh!
Joran: (to brothers)Man, what can you go do? [illegible, what is typed is: jucfc juflfe]
Deepak: (to Joran) What can you go do?
Joran: Make me, shut my mouth no.
Brothers: Fxxx you, we don’t talk anymore with you.
Deepak: (to Joran) You talk until you get tired.
Satish: (to Deepak) Do you have clothes?
Deepak: What am I going to do with those? I’m leaving anyway in [illegible] days.
Joran: That’s what you think.
Deepak: Shut your trap. Shut your trap, you bitch. Fxxx your father.
Joran: If my father doesn’t leave tomorrow, then you’ll see. Boy, shut your mouth before I hit it shut.
Deepak: Do it then, you’re already in jail.
Joran: Doesn’t matter to me. They can even put me in the fxxxing solitary [cashot]. It doesn’t matter to me.
Deepak: They’re going to give you fifteen years if they find the girl.
Joran: For what? for what?
Deepak: That scholarship of yours. Byeeeeeeee. You can forget it.
Joran: Yeah, by who? By you, retard. You know well that you did bad, otherwise you wouldn’t lie.
Brothers: aaiaaieaaieeaiee!
Joran: I should have killed you, retard. Shut your trap.
Deepak: Won’t be fun, if you are standing in front of the judge of instructions tomorrow. Why not? Too much evidence?
Joran: Then they are also allowed to hit me. Do you think that it makes a difference to me. One slap will be enough.
Satish: You think, you think.
Joran: What do you think, that you are going home to get your gun?
Satish: That I have a gun.
Joran: Satish, you, get gun at home, me shoot you two dead.
Satish: Look, the police already went to my house and already investigated [searched] the house. Did they find a gun? What will she get? ["Wat zal zij krijgen." The word 'zij' is for the word 'she' or for 'they', but they use the singular verb for 'will', therefore'she']
Deepak: (to Joran) Sometimes, you talk bullshit, right?
Joran: (to Deepak) Why is that shit not true? Witnesses saw you.
Satish: In the end we will see, who gets out and who stays. You tell the truth, we shall see.
Joran: I know that I’m getting out.
Brothers: We shall see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maggie:
Everything got quiet when the KLPD showed up,
it was awesome!
Do you remember the script from the back of the
police car? There are so many things that were
said in there that make it hard for me to believe
that Deepak and Satish were much more than a
couple of chauffeurs for the night. I read it
again, tonight, and came away feeling the same
way. Especially, when I thought about the fact
that it was taped on June 24 – after the search
at the rocks.
It’s just so obvious that they don’t know what is
going on. They’re pleading for Joran to tell the
truth while he is saying that since they lied (for
him) they are never going to get released. It is
pure torture to read it in hind sight as it shows
how mean and cruel Joran can be.
Check it out…
Patti
Patti
As for the location of Natalee, not sure the K2 have a clue what was done with her. I think she could’ve been buried once and then gotten rid of the next night or during that following day.
Paulus is telling them without a body, they have no case.
On the Skeeter’s tape, Deepak says she looked and dressed like a slut. He also says in his police statement he told John Croes Natalee put her hands down his pants to throw an investigation off. I find it hard to believe the K2 go home shower, clean the car and take Joran to Carlos n Charlies wait around on him, then pick him up with Natalee and drive him around town. The fishermen said at the beach they saw none of them at the beach that night. Deepak’s car is loud according to Joran, noone heard it. Deepak said he heard Hitler mentioned, but he didnt know the rest of the remark. I don’t believe Natalee made the Hitler or the black slave remark.
They also reported cleaning the car for ants, then it was sand at daylight. The fact there was no dna at all of Natalee in that car and that cleaning fluid was used in it shows someone went to great lengths to wipe out any trace of Natalee. If they would’ve bugged the house that first night, they would have their answers. All were meeting at the SLoots and the parents attended also.
At one point on one of his statements, he talks about a sports shoe, when asked what he was talking about he said he accidently spoke when he shouldn’t or something.
Joran says Deepak raped and killed her, Deepak says he thinks Joran raped her. It’s very clear, they know much more than what is being said.
90,, patti can you tell me where to see the pic your talking about where you can see natalees whole body.
#97
Yeah, it does seem that Natalee was the only one of the girls anyone on Aruba was interested in. But there was a mention by one of the other girls I found curious…..
Alana Jordan said she went missing for a while too.
She didn’t say anything else, just that she went missing for a while too.
What the heck did she mean by that?
Has anyone seen this discussed further?
Ben:
The links to all of the frames at the rocks have been removed. I have a picture of it that I saved on my computer and I e-mailed it to several members of the forum but I think that there was a decision made by someone that all the pictures of Natalee be removed.
I haven’t talked to Klaas about it so I don’t know anything more than that. As a member of the forum, I wouldn’t want to go against her wishes and post something that she may find offensive. Besides, I’ve posted more than my share of foul words during the past couple of days so I’d better not press my luck.
Take my word for it, she’s there.
The other picture that I was talking about is one of the frames from the water basin. It is the infamous picture that the National Enquirer published of Natalee’s face showing through the body bag. They only showed the face portion in their newspapers but I have seen the whole picture which includes part of her body. I freaked as I saw that she had a bullet hole to her left chest (frontal) with smeared blood that matched the injuries of the body at the rocks (back). It was shown to me by the person that had applied several different filters to achieve the image of Natalee through the bag. She is also a member of the forum and I feel priveledged that she took the time to show them to me. She was given the frame that I had spoken about and was going to try to achieve a clearer image by using the frame directly from the video itself. I haven’t heard anything from her as I have not followed up. I know what I see and to me it couldn’t be any clearer. We have a mutual friend, perhaps I’ll drop her a line and see if she has heard anything.
1006:
It appears that Lorenzo was released after 18 days and rumor is he wont do anymore time..We first heard he had a cache of weapons and his name was spelled Van Gijn and Van Rien..Then it became 100 MJ plants and no weapons..
Jossy has stated it is more than rumor in Aruba and confirmed by many he is Jorans brother..They have been seen around each other alot..SGC was arrested 6-16-05 at 8AM and LVR later that day..6-17 or 6-18 Rene had his throat slit..Connected?? Arubans say the same things about him over and over again..They gave two reasons why he was picked up for questioning..A local psychic and a phone call about Natalees clothes in his basement..I believe neither is true..
SGC was picked up a week after they knew his Alibi story was BS..We still havent heard the real reason why he was arrested either..
Patti:
Dont be dissapointed in Jan..He use to work for PVDS and they are best friends..From day one he did everything he could for Joran and never had any intentions on producing evidence against his Godson..May he rot in hell for what he did to Natalee..
Patti,
The rock videos are still here. I don’t know if they work. I don’t have high speed right now at this location.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1725
Jerry
The point that I’m trying to make in re Joran’s declaration that he wasn’t interested in this Ruth girl … isn’t it obvious that there might be a difference between what he SAYS and what was REALLY GOING ON?
We can build a tower based on Internet statements, we can try to go from A to Z on the basis of them. But there have been so many conflicting statements in this case, so many denials and repeated denials, so many times when A proves to be not A, that I am reluctant to take any statement as meaning much of anything.
Maggie, I agree that we have no evidence that Natalee was either taken off Aruba or was held prisoner with the idea of taking her off Aruba.
But we have no evidence to the contrary, as far as I know. My point being, as it has always been, not that I’m saying this IS the answer, but that it should not be dismissed as impossible.
1006, I don’t think that an isolated video clip proves much of anything. Possibly the J2Ks were just scouting around to “hit” on anyone they could get. Or possibly they had decided to target Natalee. I don’t know.
But I’m not going to accept Joran’s statement that “I wasn’t interested in Natalee,” or words to that effect, as proof of anything.
Interesting article here … a Florida girl, 4, missing for a year or so. She’s spotted on a video, raising hopes among her family (who had written her off as dead) that she might still be alive.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/14100182/detail.html
Here’s the text of the above article:
Surveillance Video Gives Family Hope Daughter Is Alive
September 12, 2007
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Surveillance video from a Golden Coral restaurant in Jacksonville gives parents of a 4-year-old daughter missing since May 2006 new hope that their daughter is alive.
Panama City authorities believe Jewel Strong drowned during a Memorial Day outing to the beach, but her body was never found. After searching the water from more than a week, the Bay County Sheriff’s Office determined she was lost at sea.
Almost a year later, Jewel’s mother, Simona Strong, began to get leads that caused her to believe that her daughter was not only alive, but had been abducted.
The parents received their first solid piece of evidence came in March when a customer at the Golden Corral on San Jose Boulevard thought she spotted the girl with three black women. The restaurant’s surveillance video showed what the mother said are Jewel’s unique mannerisms.
“(My) son has seen it, mother, sisters, aunts — everybody in our family has seen it. Everyone is completely convinced that it’s her,” Jewel’s mother, Simona Strong, said. “We watched her walking around, dancing, bumping into people. We know our daughter.”
Trying to locate their daughter, Simona and Ray Strong set up the Let’s Find Jewel Strong Organization to encourage more tips and leads in the case.
Now the Strongs believe their daughter may be in Orlando. Over the past two months they received reports of Jewel sightings at Disney World and at an Orlando hospital. The latest clue that gives the family hope is an Aug. 22 video recorded by a security camera at an Orlando Walgreens store.
“I watched and I was like, ‘Oh my God,’” Simona Strong said. “That’s definitely my daughter. I rewound it back and looked at the lady and said ‘That is the lady from the other video.’”
In August, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children joined the effort to find Jewel.
“If you are a parent and you will understand there is no way I will give up hope when I’ve got my daughter on video,” Simona Strong told Channel 4′s John Dunlap. “It’s just not happening.”
A $5,000 reward was offered for Jewel’s safe return and $1,000 additional is offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of any person responsible for kidnapping her.
Anyone with information is asked to call 800-THE-LOST or the Jewel Strong Organization at 904-647-6977 or 904-422-8448.
I would sure like to know how logically, without corruption and a cover up, the investigation goes from “I know that Natalee is dead”; “I know more than you because I have seen the evidence”;
to “the three are guilty as hell”;
to Natalee’s body has been found, one of the suspects has confessed and is leading the police to the body”; “to Natalee probably died from an overdose of drugs that she (self induced) and probably drowned”. WTF And O’Reilly’s worthless two cents. Where is your souce O’Rielly do you have a direct line to Dompig? Can we check your bank account for any large recent florin deposits?
Is anyone still on this thread? I hate it when the discussion moves off the front page and dies.
Are those of you have seen this picture of Natalee on the rocks saying she had a large open wound on her back and a small less open one on her chest? Were they situated so that they could have been entrance and exit wounds?
I am also curious as to the reported other wounds that seem to be in areas of major arteries, such that a quick blood letting should happen. Such a thing as blood letting sounds like a Ritualistic Sacrifice where they torture the victim by opening arteries one by one. Often times then the victim is either stabbed or shot.
I would have imagined if Natalee were shot she’d have been shot in the back while running away…but if the wounds from an apparent gunshot were such that she would have been shot from the front, then the Ritual Sacrifice is consistent.
Also, with such sacrifices, all parties in attendance are supposed to inflict a wound, such that if there was only one gunshot, then only one asshole was there….if there were 2 (and some say they see a hole on Natalee’s forehead) that would imply 2 assholes were involved. If her arm was removed, that would imply 3 involved and it would also imply that the arm was taken as a souvenier(by the leader of the group) to become something like a ‘Good Luck Charm’ to revisit when they wanted to get help from the deity they sacrificed the victim in honor of.
All this sounds so bizarre…but some evil humans are capable of such horrid acts….like the boys who climbed an old lady’s fence and took her small dog out of her yard, threw it out a window multiple times until all 4 legs were broken (that being the goal before they could stop throwing it out the window), then hanging the dog in a tree by it’s neck and beating it like a pinatta until it’s intestines fell out.
I don’t like thinking such people exist! But they do. And so, could Joran have been involved in sacrificing a blonde-haired, blue-eyed virgin? Could they have drugged her, raped her, bled her, then shot her and taken her arm?
I don’t think so…because I don’t see Joran aiming to please any sort of deity. Joran only pleases Joran IMO…but I could have him all wrong.
For those of you who have seen the pictures, do you think it’s possible it was faked like in the making of some sick video?
Richard, I agree Joran protests too much that he was not interested in Natalee.
I think he was interested in her -or someone was- and that it began before Natalee’s trip to Aruba. ONLINE!
The predators know certain habits like that MB comes to Aruba every year after graduation. Why would they NOT search out who they wanted to take in advance and make the whole thing easier?
I would bet money one of the MB kids had spoken with Joran or his pimps online prior to the trip. They may not have known it was Joran as he could have used on of his many alters, but just the same I actually find it highly UNlikely Joran had not spoken with some MB grads before their trip and knew things about them etc.
#111 while we’re talking about bank accounts….we should consider these accounts to be set up not in the family name.
I have often wonder; since the ALE was interested in what was being done with the Natalee funds; as to how much money was in Joran’s defense fund set up by pro bono Joe Tacobell. How has the money been disbursed? Hey Mr. IRS man, has Tocopina reported any UNEARNED Aruban florins in the past two years?
Again: does anyone know if Lorenzo had any exotic birds or animals in his home in May 2005?
I almost puked when I heard on Jeopardy that the Dutch named a tulip in honor of Hillary Clinton.
I could understand if it were a Monica; but not a Hillary.
richard:
“1006, I don’t think that an isolated video clip proves much of anything. Possibly the J2Ks were just scouting around to “hit” on anyone they could get. Or possibly they had decided to target Natalee. I don’t know.”
I really don’t know why the casino video was released.
It was obviously tampered/altered.
Natalee arrives through the doors to the casino 25 minutes after she is at the table with Ruth and Joran.
Or was this two different nights spliced together with Natalee wearing the same clothing both nights? Check the times on the tape.
This is from Gretawire.
This could turn out to be big…
As you may recall, the Kalpoe brothers have sued Dr. Phil. Suing can be dangerous….your opponent gets to demand lots of information and you have to turn it over.
In connection with the Kalpoe lawsuit, Dr. Phil won a significant victory – a judge ruled that Dr. Phil will get access to some Kalpoe brothers’ documents (including emails.) The Kalpoes sure fought hard not to have to turn over this information…so it must mean something.
Tonight Beth Holloway’s lawyer John Q. Kelly joins us to discuss this significant development – it could have much larger implications on the investigation into what happened to Natalee.
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/09/13/did-the-kalpoe-brothers-admit-in-writing-to-having-had-sex-with-natalee-holloway/
#115, maybe they chose Hillary because she is such a ‘woman’ she puts up with her husband’s cheating ways. LOL
Richard, I think Joran purposely says he was interested in Ruth or Kathleen etc. instead of Natalee as another dig at Natalee. He has all along after the fact tried to paint her as crazy, ugly, slut, virgin, drunk, druggie, lesbian, racist, and a stalker who forced herself on him. Noone ever used these words to describe Natalee before, just these 3 and their families.. He has tried to portray himself as the victim in this story. What kind of girl gets in the car with my son? Instead of that statement saying anything about Natalee, it says more about their sons. Doesn’t matter what kind of girl got in the car, it becomes their duty to see that the girl arrives safely to where she was staying, once they let her in the car. Any kind of decent son would’ve done so or went let someone know that night. The reason he didn’t is because they were never at the beach. IMO.
The above documents to turn over if Straten, Jacobs or Dompig has anything to do with it..forget it. They can hide anything they don’t want to turn over. We’ve seen it for 2 years.
Disgusted Mom:
Where did you hear about this ritual? I don’t know whether you know this, but I’m psychic. I did a reading one night, a long time ago, while Carpe was sharing his collection of frames from the Chicago Video. I saw her body in the bushes, and the reading on her was that she bled to death from having her hand cut off. I said that was the first injury that was inflicted upon her by a man, one man, that had a hand fetish and that he collected these hands and would use them to torture people. I also said that her arm was cut off second, but that she had already lost so much blood, that she was gone and didn’t suffer. I praised Jehovah that a person only had to die once.
I said that the other wounds, the gun shot wounds were post mortem. But looking at the picture, I couldn’t hardly believe myself because of the amount of blood that was generated from the shot to the chest. So lastnight, someone was asking me about the pictures and I went and reviewed them again and found that there are two gunshot wounds. One to the chest, with little blood and one to the waist area, again, with little blood.
I feel sad, because I know that she was tortured before the sacrafice that ended her life, but at the same time I am happy because I know that she didn’t suffer a long agonizing death.
She was thinking about her mother when she died. She didn’t want people to think bad of her when they found her and she drifted, peacefully into death as one usually does when they bleed to death.
Do you have any information or links to the information that you just mentioned where these groups perform these sacrifices because the first thing out of my mouth was: What church do these people go to? Also what I heard were the words, so I asked, “who’s garden is this”? Maybe the man painting the rocks is a gardener. Also I heard the words “Turtle Garden”.
I’m not going to post for a while. It is frust-
rating when you see things that others can’t. I know the truth for myself. I hope it comes out, all of it; and I think that it will.
I did a reading on Beth and predicted that someone was ready to talk. I posted it to the Scared Monkeys. A few days later, the California law suit was filed. The truth will come. The Kalpoes know alot, but were involved VERY little. They know because of Freddy and it is eating them up inside. Satish, especially, was fond of Natalee and feels guilty although he did nothing to cause her death.
For those of you that want to look for the body in the bushes, she is there and can be found in the forum at the photo evaluation thread. Ignore the comments and just look at the pictures.
She is lying on her stomach with her left leg bent in an upward direction. Her left arm is also held in an upward direction. At a distance her left arm looks like the statue of liberty.
Liberty… that’s what it is ALL about.
Love you all….. be kind to one another.
.
1906 – You know so much detail, while I only know what I feel. One day we can come together in celebration of truth. Aruba may never prosecute anyone, but the truth will be known.
God Bless You!!!
.
Richard:
You know I’m going to stay in touch with you. I think maybe we’re soul mates… smiles to you.
Maggie:
Keep it up, Girl… You’re the Best
.
Yo-Yo:
How could I ever go anywhere without saying good bye to you. You’re a pain in the neck… but a good one. You may have been right the WHOLE time about Joran. Time will tell.
Everyone else…. Keep up the good work. I’ll be back when I get that urge but for now, I think that everything is going in a good direction and feel positive that Beth, Dave and all will find their peace. Can’t wait to read Beth’s book.
Later…
#120, Patti…I don’t have a link to the Ritual stuff… Ritualistic sacrifice in general is nothing new. Old as sin. And people were always deceived that they would please some god or another and gain favor from a sacrifice of something innocent (you don’t see anyone sacrificing a tiger…no, it’s always some tame animal)
But I’m sure you can find cases where people have confessed to such behavior.
Not all rituals being step 1, step 2 etc…you know, they are generalizations where those who embrace that horrible behavior have liberty to just grasp the concept and apply it to their own set of particulars.
What I wrote was from several different instances that I put together as they might have applied to what was said about the picture at the rocks. I have not yet seen the picture…but as you mentioned it is on the forum, I’m going to look now.
NO, btw…I didn’t know you were psychic! And I’m sorry, but I don’t think you are, but that’s just my opinion.
And…. Disgusted Mom:
You are entitled to your opinion.
But, you don’t have to be a hater.
To be done with it all…Joran committed a crime,an Daddy cover it up with the help of Straaten, the dirty pig..Paulus has done so many illegal favors…Posner for one…why doesn’t the other hotel and casino owners complain, he is against Aruban law to own a casino with a criminal background…I would say the island is now controlled by blackmail…Psulus had signed douuments signed with Joran’s confession that Straaten allowed him to alter..and Beth has copies of all the originals. Paulus is guilty of many things…someone needs to bring him to justice…Joran things I can do anything I want and Daddy will fix it…Well, Daddy is a pathetic person representing the law…the wanna be judge..too dumb to make it…!!!
Patti:
“1906 – You know so much detail, while I only know what I feel. One day we can come together in celebration of truth. Aruba may never prosecute anyone, but the truth will be known.”
One very important detail is missing.
I don’t know where is Natalee!!!!
#122 Patti…a hater? I hope you weren’t suggesting I hate you.
As for being a hater…what is that anyway?
To me, being called a hater suggests one hates everything. That would be really sick to hate everything. ‘Hater’ needs a direct object, like hater OF XXXX. That I can accept, but just plain out hater implies a horrible person with no love in their heart, and it is offensive to me.
However, I do hate some things. And I think it’s fine to hate some things or else we end up not hating evil things.
And I absolutely HATE the way Natalee’s family was treated when they were so desperate to find their precious daughter.
I absolutely HATE the concept that it is OK for a suspect to lie when that suspect is also a witness even though a witness can’t lie without getting in the hockey, and that said suspect -that being Joran – wasn’t a suspect when he lied about the HI dropoff to begin with yet STILL he can lie and it’s OK because, as Nadira says ‘everybody lies’.
I also HATE that anyone WOULD lie while professing innocence when that lie is keeping a family from finding their loved one. It’s the pits of self-serving selfishness and blatant inconsideration of the feelings of others unnecessarily IF the one professing innocence is really innocent.
I HATE when people can’t differentiate between pains involved in any given situation. In other words, when Joran and his procreators feel their pains should be equal or more equal than the pains of Natalee and her family.
I even HATE that Fred Goldman would publish OJ’s book only AFTER he knew FOR SURE he could get money for it, when before he knew FOR SURE he was against the book being published period…or so he said, when really all he wanted was to not let OJ publish it to keep OJ from getting any money from it. I HATE that FG was such a coward he couldn’t say that he was glad OJ wrote the book because it ended up being the avenue from which he could collect what the courts ordered he could get from OJ in terms of money. I HATE that people hide what is in their hearts for fear it will look bad, while it’s all still really right there in their hearts being denied and feigned as honorable to the public.
And I HATE that we live in a world where changing the title of the book to HOW instead of IF while leaving the author as OJ as if he titled it that way is OK when Fred Goldman has no proof OJ killed Ron and that people think that’s funny that Fred would play such childish games. What’s next? He can change a few phrases here and there too and attribute them to OJ?
But back to the Natalee case….I HATE that any system anywhere in the world would listen to a person such as Paulus in a hearing to be removed from being a suspect before the case is solved to find out he was definitely NOT involved.
And finally, but not finitely, I HATE that some people place a greater wrong on torturing and abusing humans than they do on torturing and abusing helpless, trusting animals.
Oh, here’s another HATE of mine…
I HATE that some hormonal males tell themselves ALL girls ‘want it’ so they don’t have to treat females with any individuality or respect while they deliberately refuse to address controling their raging hormones.
I’ve been involved in situations where parents, especially the male parent, excuses anything and everything their boys do as ‘They’re just being boys’. It should be insulting to have a parent say that about you.
So you think that people that torture and kill
animals should be given a life sentence?
That’s interesting…
Actually the word “hater” is used to describe
someone that “disses” you ie disrespects you.
There’s alot of that going on around here. I
heard someone refer to you as “Disgusting Mom;
that is disrespectful. If someone says that
they are something, it is polite for you to
say, “oh, that’s nice”… mind you, there is
nothing wrong with thinking to yourself {but I
don’t think so}. But to say it, that is
disrespectful… thus, you are a hater…
A person that is disrespectful to other people.
So if you’re driving down the highway and,
suddenly, out of nowhere comes a man and his
dog crossing the freeway in front of you. You
don’t have time to stop, so you have to swerve
to keep from hitting them, when suddenly the man
starts running widening the space between them,
which way do you swerve? Do you hit the man or
the dog?
Would you have to think about it?
If so… you’ve killed them both.
Don’t worry about what you said. I know that I’m opinionated and get on peoples nerve sometimes… and I’ve acted disrespectful to people here, too. It’s just that when a woman does it to another woman, it’s more offensive for some reason. And, personally, I think that boys WILL be boys, sometimes; and that the girls stick together… But, hell, what do I know – that’s the way it worked when I grew up.
One time my brother got into a fight with this kid
and the kid was so scared of my brother that he
ran into his house and wouldn’t come out to fight. He locked all his doors and closed all the curtains. And you know what my brother did? He took the hose and put it in an open window to the basement of the house and turned the water on and left. The boy let his basement flood, rather than come out and turn off the water because he thought my brother might still be there.
THAT is boys will be boys.
The parents of the boy called and my parents paid for half the damage. Why? Because boys, well you know.
A girl… would never do that. We’d never think of such a thing as putting a hose in a window and if we were on the other end, there would be NO way that we would let our parent’s basement get flooded.
You know there’s a difference between men and women, right?
IS THERE A RECORD OF A PHONE CALL FROM JORAN TO HIS FATHER PAUL DURING THE DARK EARLY MORNING HOURS OF THE MURDER?
I THINK JORAN CALLED DADDY AND TOLD HIM A PSEUDO TRUTH, LIKE HE WASN’T RESPONSIBLE, BUT PRESENT, AND NEEDED HELP GETTING OUT OF IT.
WHO BETTER THAN A JUDGE TO COVER A MURDER
Paul Van der Sloot has just been listed on RottenNeighbor.com
http://www.rottenneighbor.com/story.php?id=57317