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  • Comments

    136 Responses to “Confirmation of Suspicions of Suspect in the Disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba”

    1. minnesota dad on August 21st, 2007 10:37 am

      Yep….its all there.

      The most incredible of all were the charges against Guido regarding rape, HEAVY BATTERY, and kidnapping.

      What was the evidence that allowed them to conclude HEAVY BATTERY???

      Couple that with Guido hiring the most expensive criminal defense attorney in the EU and I think it is pretty clear that things were striking too close to their mark.

      Then we have the disclosure of Paulus’ several contacts the night of Natalee’s murder. Why was he released Aruba? Why??? Why weren’t these contacts disclosed when he was using your legal system (with the aid of Karin Janssen’s “no suspect” letter) to further distance himself legally from being prosecuted in this case? Why Aruba?

      Bring Paulus in Aruba and finish this case up. What’s the delay KLPD??? You guys trying to figure out how you will sweep this under the rug without being ridiculed??? Or are you just going to perpetually continue the investigation until all is forgotten? You (ALE and KLPD) are an incredible joke (of course….that crow pie is still sitting in my fridge waiting to be eaten but I think it will go stale and moldy before you act!)


    2. 10061906 on August 21st, 2007 12:09 pm

      Come on Aruba you know that we know what happened: once you realized how many sons and daughters of prominent people; both Aruban and Dutch were involved in Natalee’s demise you then decided to sweep everything into the Sea.
      (There must have been quite a crowd at Joran’s that night.)
      You see though; sometimes the Sea has a habit of giving up its’ secrets and that is what is going to hang all who took Natalee’s life and tried to make her a non entity.
      Jan van der Straaten said he knew all the details why Natalee was not alive.
      Why Oduber did you want Van der Straaten off this case?
      We fight for justice; not because Natalee is a white, Anglo-Saxon, blond, blue eyed premed student; but because she is an American citizen and she was traumatized and disappeared on your devil island and you saw fit to prosecute no one.
      No amount of obfuscated reports will ever change our opinion and disgust for your way of life and justice: and that includes the Dutch who are just as guilty of this cover up.
      I absolutely hate moldy crow pie; but I also am sure that I will never have to eat it.

    3. Libby on August 21st, 2007 12:16 pm

      Sad, but they aren’t going to do anything. It is under the rug and will remain there. They have gotten rid of all the evidence. The statements have been changed or deleted.

    4. Richard on August 21st, 2007 12:19 pm

      With more than two years having passed, and no action having been taken … WHY will our own government not speak out?

    5. Melissa on August 21st, 2007 1:04 pm

      I believe our government will stay neutral indefinitely regarding Natalee Holloway and Aruba. The United States did not put what was at that time called U S Immigration and US Customs in Aruba for the benefit of the tourists. It gave the U S a physical presence literally within viewing distance of South America. If anyone remembers, at the end of 1999, due to a treaty, the U S had to pull out of the region of the Panama Canal.

    6. 10061906 on August 21st, 2007 1:05 pm

      someone in Washington has to be in bed with someone on Aruba. Contacts between the US and Aruba go back to the 20′s to when gold was discovered on Aruba and 13,000,000 pounds were mined and shipped to the Netherlands. Much of the equipment was supplied by the US. The US was instrumental in building a little known railroad on Aruba to take the ore from the gold mines NE to the smelter in Balashi SW. The US had a contingency of Marines on Aruba protecting the refinery that supplied fuel to the Allies during WWII. Varlero owns the refinery on Aruba with head quarters in San Antonio. Queen Beatrix Airport maintains a facility for the DEA and a landing strip.The world Court which is in the Hague is a Dichotomy
      With all the anxiety talk about Venezuela; why do we have a charitable organization supplying Venezuelan heating oil to the US? and on and on and on ………..
      IMHO Richard: it comes down to dollars and SENSE or lack of.

    7. 10061906 on August 21st, 2007 1:26 pm

      There is this possibility that Natalee was disposed of in one of the gold mines or one of its’ air shafts. Aruba is a rim of an ancient volcano. Therefore; numerous caves, tunnels and passages both manmade and natural, exist. A body disposed of there and once decomposition was complete and due to the rise and fall of the tides; some material such as a bone could float out to the northeast side of the island. That would give the impression that a body was disposed of in the sea when actually it was disposed of on land. Another attempted to draw attention away from Montana and the gold mines in Seroe Cristal.

    8. Vicki on August 21st, 2007 1:37 pm

      This is why WE BOYCOTT…if anyone gave a darn ib LIERUBA they would grab a kaloo or 2 and shake them down…they will talk…unfortunatly, I think they were the least involved. Can you see the rich elite dutch “sharing” a girl with 2 dark skinned guys???right… they were just the drivers..thats what URINE thought of them.Just a means to the end. COME TO A SHOW PPL…tell the tragic story of what happened to Natalee…so it will NEVER happen again…All of these filthy PIGS will get theirs…Hey URINE, got the creeping crud yet???Its coming…

    9. Susan on August 21st, 2007 1:53 pm

      Very interesting, 1906…



    10. Carpe Noctem on August 21st, 2007 1:54 pm

      Sadly, I don’t think Natalee will ever get traditional Dutch Justice either.. Which if you read a brief synopsis of how >DUTCH law IS SUPPOSED TO BE HANDLED IN ARUBA,

      she should have A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y

      received SOME SORT of Justice,
      without a doubt!!!

      The Arubans and Dutch should be thoroughly
      ashamed of themselves for the ARUBAN HOLLOWAY DEBACLE.

      Like Viet Vet and the 30 OT6 POST…

      I do think someone will probably shoot all four of them very soon! I believe that is exactly what their governments fear, and that is why you cannot get an official statement out of
      ARUBA or HOLLAND one way or the other…
      if the case is officially closed or open….
      or whatever the hell is going on…

      I think that they will be sniped.
      I think they’ll start with the person who is responsible for starting the coverup,
      Paulus Vandersloot…

      Then, I think they’ll start moving on down the line, until they get to the actual story
      of what happened to Natalee that night.

      …and if they never get the full story,
      it might not matter anyway, seeing how the perps
      seemed to never want to tell. So what’d
      the loss at this point?

      Ces’t la vie, HUH???

      IMO It sure couldn’t

      happen to two nicer families.

      I mean, if they’ll stand by and let someone rape and assassinate SOMEBODY’S BABY GIRL…

      …and let the SUSPECTS walk off into the sunset without a trial or ANYTHING???? I mean really… HOW MUCH WORSE CAN ARUBA GET? Who will be the
      next target, for crying outloud… PEOPLE’S

      Those effing brutal scumbags
      make me want to vomit
      my liver out. :)

      Enjoy your day!!!! LOL

    11. Libby on August 21st, 2007 2:16 pm

      I hope they do get sniped carpe….starting with Paulus. I bet Joran wouldn’t have that stupid lil arrogant…you will never get me grin on his face then.

    12. joe bear on August 21st, 2007 2:56 pm

      Time for justice.The white coat ceremony is something Natalee will miss,on becoming a med student,to save and help.She did not rape and kill.Boycott and boycott some more.Then boycott some more

    13. joe bear on August 21st, 2007 4:13 pm

      It is ironic that 100 points to the gold mines and where bones would go,at a time when at least one bone has been found in that location.Boycott and justice,now

    14. Allan K on August 21st, 2007 5:20 pm

      Aruba will not prosecute their own for an American, Natalee. Damn them to hell. It is no way I can put into words the feelings about their actions and lack of concern for human life. It is beyond me how a island would allow the tourists and young girls to be taken advantage of. It is my thoughts and hopes they get what they deserve in this life and the next.

      On another concern is that Natalee could have been sold into slavery for 2 years now. The Arubans, Dutch, our own government doesn’t seem to care if Natalee is dead or sold for sexual purposes. If it was some Senators daughter or someone in government we would have an answer. I am tired of the jack asses in Washington lining their pockets and to hell with the citizens.

    15. arubagirl on August 21st, 2007 5:24 pm


      Gold was discovered in the 1800s and the industry was all but dried up in the 1920s.

      The mineshafts are either closed or are in the public part of the National Park. If Natalee was dropped in there, she would have been found.

      Which bone has been found around the gold mines?

    16. Susan on August 21st, 2007 5:30 pm

      My sentiments exactly, Carpe :-) Line ‘em up, snuff ‘em out…Let the games begin!



    17. 10061906 on August 21st, 2007 5:55 pm

      check your history,geography and your eye sight again.
      The air shafts are very much still open. No one said a bone was found near the gold mine.
      There is no national park in Seroe Cristal.
      The shafts and caves are 800 feet deep in some areas.
      How can you make a ridiculous unsubstantiated statment like;;;
      “If Natalee was dropped in there, she would have been found”. Really; you just said they were closed.
      Did you go in there looking for her?
      Do you know anybody that did?
      Stop making statements you can’t back.
      You’re as bad as O’Rielly

    18. Maggie on August 21st, 2007 7:29 pm

      Carpe for every law, there’s a small clause afterwards if you are certain people the above law is cancelled due to another one.

      Like I said before read James Patterson’s new book “The Quickie” a woman cop thought her husband was cheating, so when he went out of town, she had a fling with a fellow cop. When he left her house she looked out and saw her husband hadn’t left town,,he was beating the crap out of the cop she was just with. The cop was later found dead.. stuff was found in her shed.. She didn’t want to be in a scandal and later her husband told her he wasn’t having an affair it was business deal.. she got rid of evidence and lied and had a video tape of a high official entertaining females that would ruin his career and she threatened to use it. Only takes one dirty cop to ruin a case.. Natalee’s had more than one, imo. If Oduber didn’t want Straten anywhere near this case and wanted him off this case..and Zandaam said this was never the kind of case Straten should be on.. Even said Straten was to be nowhere near the police station, yet was even after Dave reported seeing him with Jacobs, and Paulus is saying he knew all these people and that Straten was a friend and he worked with him for years…then why of all the police is he the one handling this case? Why is he saying just days later, he seen the evidence and believes Natalee is dead.. What about statements about getting Joran into a mental place? Why is a narcotics cop taking over the case and Straten is still meeting with him after he’s off the case.

    19. ben on August 21st, 2007 8:00 pm

      You should send that clip to orealllly,, I think he for got about those statements,May be The Aruban goverment gave him a nice,villa for his words of slander.

    20. Nut44x4 on August 21st, 2007 8:02 pm

      while of gold bricks the road is not paved, …

    21. disgustedmom on August 21st, 2007 9:33 pm

      IMO, Van der Straaten took himself off the case, not Oduber taking him off it. I think JanV didn’t want to be directly in charge because he knew his best buddy and his best buddy’s son did Natalee in. This, however, did not stop him from nosing around, hanging around and ‘influencing things’…it just managed to keep him from being the one directly in charge officially, you know like if he were officially in charge he would have to follow some sort of protocol or else it would be too OBVIOUS that he was helping his buddy clean up the mess he and his son made.

      Jan saw the evidence; he knew Natalee was dead and he knew who caused it. He did not want to ‘do this to his best friend’ so he took himself off the case. That’s why there wasn’t any flak from his hanging around and ‘helping out’…if Oduber had taken Jan off the case I don’t think Jan’s ‘help’ would have been allowed, but if Jan takes himself off it he can put himself back into any part of it he wants to.

      Anyhow, that’s my take on Jan VDS and his ‘removal’.

    22. Maggie on August 21st, 2007 10:04 pm

      It was reported in Dave’s book that Oduber wanted him off the case, but he had no authority to remove him.. Straten gave these 3 times he was going to question them … this was after they saw that Natalee didn’t return… yet for the guards..they didn’t say come to the police station , they raided their home at daylight, searched and arrested them. Right off, Straten could have excused himself due to the cirumstances, but he didn’t.. Everyone knows the first days of investigating a crime are the crucial days. Those were the days Straten kept himself on the case.. There was no searches or anything for 9 days or longer of the 3 suspects last seen with Natalee in the first crucial days. Someone Straten’s age has to know those are crucial times investigating a crime instead look how he handled it. Not to mention, Straten was according to Helen Lejuez involved in a cover up on the island before.. Why would he even still be on the police force? Like some of the others, he sure fled Aruba fast.

    23. brie on August 21st, 2007 10:24 pm


    24. brie on August 21st, 2007 10:30 pm


    25. Reaver on August 21st, 2007 10:43 pm

      #17 10061906
      I guess you don’t know the meaning of “either”

    26. Jasmine on August 21st, 2007 11:32 pm

      Sooner or later the truth will come out. It always does. He who talks first gets the best deal boys!

      IMO, Aruba has permanently damaged it’s tourism with this obvious cover-up and farce of an investigation. I don’t know about you guys, but I can’t watch one of those Aruba commercials on TV without seeing Natalee’s face.

    27. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 9:29 am

      Don’t hesitate to jump in when you have something constructive to say.
      The traditional rule holds that either should be used only to refer to one of two items and that any is required when more than two items are involved: Any (not either) of the three opposition candidates still in the race would make a better president than the incumbent. But reputable writers have often violated this rule, and in any case it applies only to the use of either as a pronoun or an adjective. When either is used as a conjunction, no paraphrase with any is available, and so either is unexceptionable even when it applies to more than two clauses: Either the union will make a counteroffer or the original bid will be refused by the board or the deal will go ahead as scheduled.·In either … or constructions, the two conjunctions should be followed by parallel elements. The following is regarded as incorrect: You may either have the ring or the bracelet (properly, You may have either the ring or the bracelet). The following is also incorrect: She can take either the examination offered to all applicants or ask for a personal interview (properly, She can either take … ).·When used as a pronoun, either is singular and takes a singular verb: The two left-wing parties disagree with each other more than either does (not do) with the Right. When followed by of and a plural noun, either is often used with a plural verb: Either of the parties have enough support to form a government. But this usage is widely regarded as incorrect; in an earlier survey it was rejected by 92 percent of the Usage Panel.·When all the elements in an either … or construction (or a neither … nor construction) used as the subject of a sentence are singular, the verb is singular: Either Eve or Herb has been invited. Analogously, when all the elements in the either … or construction are plural, the verb is plural too: Either the Clarks or the Kays have been invited. When the construction mixes singular and plural elements, however, there is some confusion as to which form the verb should take. It has sometimes been suggested that the verb should agree with whichever noun phrase is closest to it; thus one would write Either Eve or the Kays have been invited, but Either the Kays or Eve has been invited. This pattern is accepted by 54 percent of the Usage Panel. Others have maintained that the construction is fundamentally inconsistent whichever number is assigned to the verb and that such sentences should be rewritten accordingly. See Usage Notes at every, neither, or 1, they.

    28. Sahara on August 22nd, 2007 9:58 am

      When I see the aruba commercials, I switch stations. I had purchased an aruba license plate “one happy island” while on vacation there years ago and had it hanging on my garage wall, but it made me sick everytime I looked at it. I threw it in the trash. I have made it my mission to talk everyone that I can out of going to that island until there is justice!

    29. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 10:29 am

      A regular Rodney Dangerfield.

      “The art of grapefruit juice making.
      Squeeze and release.”


    30. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 10:41 am

      Looks like the Dutch may have their hands full if Chevez gets his way. Look for the US to get involved.
      Our government just hasn’t learned from our founding father George:
      “Do not meddle in foreign affairs!!”


      Read 3rd paragraph under NUWIRE INVESTOR.

    31. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 11:18 am
    32. disgustedmom on August 22nd, 2007 11:41 am

      I posted the following my mistake on the Bone page. I meant to put it here where it was more appropriate. Sorry for the double post.


      Joran’s book….says one time he got so drunk he was puking and just wanting to sleep. He had no ride home and had to call Anita. His gf Susana was with him and she sat with him and held him until Anita showed up with a car. Anita took Susana home then of course Joran to sleep it off.

      Anyone see the similarity there with what Joran says went on with Natalee? Just replace Joran for Susana and a Kalpoe for Anita and it’s the same story.

      I mention this because I find Joran’s book to be a primer for the lies he told about this case. He isn’t smart enough to make up new stories…all the stories he told about Natalee have happened to him before in a different context and they are all in his book. He only borrowed from his life experiences when he made up his story of what he did with Natalee that night.

      I think there’s a reason for the things Joran chose to put in that book too; there always is with a guilty conscience…so like, the story of his being drunk above began with a party on a boat. What made Joran choose this story to tell? Was it triggered by a party on a boat with Natalee? Or was there just somehow a boat involved in partying?

      Steve Croes being involved in this and his relation with the Tatoo party boat…does it mean anything? Remember that call inquiring if Natalee had a Tatoo? Did Jug get the boat confused with a body tatoo?

      It was said Koen’s boat went out that night. The Tatoo is anchored off shore so it would take a boat to get out to it.

      This makes Joran, Koen, Steve Croes possibly together when something bad happened to Natalee if the Tatoo was involved.

      Joran would have gotten a ride back to shore with Koen on his boat and maybe Natalee was too passed out to be lugged into it and she was left on the Tatoo? Or maybe she was dropped in the water while they were trying to get her off the Tatoo, and she drowned. No one would go diving for her right then I’m sure. But a body would resurface within hours. Didn’t they say Steve Croes spent the night on the Tatoo that night? Was he waiting for her body to surface?

      Just some new thoughts.

    33. JusticeforNatalee on August 22nd, 2007 2:34 pm

      We are waiting

      We are watching

      We are NOT going away!

    34. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 2:50 pm

      To Catch A Kalpoe.

      Foghorn T.


      “A Baby Momma”

    35. minnesota dad on August 22nd, 2007 2:57 pm


      Who here wants to wager that ALE and the KLPD are praying for another “Katrina Disaster” now that Hurricane season is upon us.

      I bet they cringed when the recent one went into Mexico. No media following those.

      I thinks I smells the rat. Wait until Florida gets blasted by a Hurricane this year and watch the quiet dismissal based on “no evidence” (ha ha).

      The MN Bridge disaster wasn’t big enough for them to have cover. They are hoping another New Orleans hits!


    36. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 3:09 pm

      Nut44x4 on August 21st, 2007 8:02 pm
      while of gold bricks the road is not paved, …
      Unfortunately I have since given up on Shango.
      I followed his/her clues and crossed my T’s and dotted my I’s. Then I went back and check everything three more times. Based on Shango and Dave Holloway’s interpretations in his book; I felt I knew were Natalee was buried. I found the co ordinates near San Nicolas and googled earth and found pictures of the area. Every part of the clues matched perfectly. That information was sent to Dave Holloway via Art Wood.
      Dave wrote back that the area had been checked and nothing was found. I and (Shango) was/were proven wrong.
      I really felt this terrible sinking feeling inside that I had put Dave Holloway through another agonizing search that did not result in finding Natalee.
      One straight path to the house of rave
      While of gold bricks the road is not paved.
      If there are 10,000 homes on Aruba it would seem that description would fit about 9,998.
      Gold bricks= yellow building blocks/road not paved.
      A few locations that come to mind that fit that description are:
      The VIP Lion’s Den.
      The Van der Sloots’ house
      Lorenzo’s house.
      His mother’s house.
      Alex Gottenbos’ house
      Willeim van Cromvoirt’s house.
      Deepak and Satish’s house.
      Freddie’s house.
      Jaime’s house;
      The Victoria Restaurant. (No listing in Phonebook)
      and on and on and on to another 9,989 houses.

    37. Miss-Undestimated on August 22nd, 2007 3:11 pm

      Joran’s book….says one time he got so drunk he was puking and just wanting to sleep. He had no ride home and had to call Anita. His gf Susana was with him and she sat with him and held him until Anita showed up with a car. Anita took Susana home then of course Joran to sleep it off.

      LOL Hey didn’t Anita say her Sporter don drink and her sporter don gamble?

      His book should be enuff to bring him back for some HEAVY INTEROGATION, riddled with contrares to his statements.

      I heard a good one today. Raise you hand if you know a h&e that needs to be slapped

      I’m raisin mine.

    38. ayfit on August 22nd, 2007 3:51 pm

      You know I have said all along two can keep a secret only if one of the two are dead. How do they do it? Many on that awful island know the truth and maintain this secret of what happened to Natalee. I think the truth has come out already,yet the officials continue the cover-up. These boys are truley UNTOUCHABLE. Why??? Someone has to break through! Aruba , we will not go away.Condy Rice,please step up. We need the help from our government. Get involved!!Hell Do Something!!!!!!! I saw our president respond on hurricane Dean last night. He said America would step up and help our neighbor Mexico. Mr. President,What about one of our own? Natalee deserves as we all do,Americas help. I am sure I have never heard Mr Bush mention Natalee Holloway’s name. I have however seen pictures of Beth and Condy.

    39. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 4:51 pm

      Bush is going to help Mexico???? What about the floods in the US central plains????
      Is he going to fix Mexico like he and FEMA did for New Orleans? Our government is so eager to help others that spit in our face but don’t have the time of day for our own.
      First of all he/we can’t afford it. When is Bush going to realize he drained the barrel with IRAQ.

    40. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 5:04 pm

      #19 Ben

      Gee zoo fits, bruddah…

      Billy Bob and Geraldo rang
      your f’n bell on that one,
      didn’t they???

      You’ve only mentioned
      it like a few hundred
      times. LOL

      …and u know what? > I totally agree with u!

      I’m all for keeping Nat in the news…
      but, unless they can back that
      spec. and accusation stuff up,
      and name those so called
      “protected scources”…

      …I sure wish they’d stuff

      a big ol’ rag in it.


    41. dennisintn on August 22nd, 2007 6:23 pm

      #32, i would amend that to “we are waiting, we are watching, we are talking, we are not going away”. keep up the great posts j4n

    42. disgustedmom on August 22nd, 2007 6:52 pm

      Bush is going to help Mexico? Pfft! I really hate that. We are spread too thin as it is. Is he going to help the islands that got blasted too? Shouldn’t he save a bit for when a hurricane ruins American towns? Bush! Calm yo’azz down!

      minnosotadad, I’m with you on Aruba breaking something big if we have hurricane damage. Why didn’t they do it when the bridge collapsed?…because they didn’t know it was going to collapse, didn’t know how long it would stay in the news, and they didn’t have time to make their earth-shattering statement of course. A hurricane though gives them time as they watch to see if there is going to be sure damage.

    43. disgustedmom on August 22nd, 2007 7:30 pm

      #36…1006…if Shango really knew anything about Natalee there is only one reason why that would be, and that is….the whole thing was planned in advance to try to pull off a perfect crime and Shango’s riddle was part of the game. It’s sort of like the Zodiac killer who wrote letters to newspapers and cops to get more attention than he would have otherwise. Joran’s book falls into that same catagory.

      It really is no fun for the people who did Natalee in to not have attention from it. The last thing they want is for the world to shut up about it because as long as people talk about it and don’t solve things, the more empowered and smart the criminal feels. And he can relive they crime that excited him in the first place.

      Now, since the only 2 people who were involved who can’t shut about this case are Joran and Paulus, and since Joran said he and his daddy laughed when the Dutch dug up their garden….one can only assume Joran and Paulus find this all very entertaining and love the attention they are getting. If anyone believes Anita is not involved in the fun of the attention her family is getting (at least for now since they are still able to play the victim), then all you have to do is look at her happy gloating face when she was giving that speech – the one where Joran can’t stop stroking her- and watch her body language when she’s around her delicious sporter who brought them all fame (holding his hand and hugging like she’s so proud of his strength in the face of all this adversity, all that PDA crap that a mom is usually made to ‘cut out’ by her son after her son reaches puberty. You’d think Joran was her lover! Sick!

    44. Juan on August 22nd, 2007 7:54 pm

      Why don’t you just let her rest in pieces? Enough.

    45. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 8:02 pm

      I stated once before that the van der Sloots appeared to be a dysfunctional family and that Joran may suffer from an Oedipus complex. I got laughed off this blog. Dare I try to repeat what I said.
      That which you say could hold some truth.
      Remember Joran said “don’t blame the player, blame the game. There were also reference to the dice men.
      Refer to your June 4th 2007 post

      Read this about the dicemen referenced in Shango.

      Go here for the whole list.

      This could be why Natalee was hounded from the second day of her trip after her room was changed to the one with the hidden camera; that was renovated shortly after she disappeared

    46. dennisintn on August 22nd, 2007 8:48 pm

      #37, didn’t anita also mention that he didn’t do drugs? or was joe taco the only one who bragged about him not doing drugs. and then the sporter himself brags about having cheated on the drug tests in jail. what a wonderful family to represent the people of aruba.

    47. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 9:02 pm



      I *sincerely* hope you just speak Enlish poorly,
      and were not meaning to sound like such a
      gigoondo, insensitive, asho!

      IF NOT-

      What if you sent your mother or sister to the US, and she got ambushed, and slashed to ribbons or

      Let me blindside YOUR nearest, dearest, love one,
      then we’ll call you up and see how YOU FEEL about ‘just letting things be?’

      Howza ’bout going & filling
      your car up with 15 gallons of
      SUPER Shut the f. up?


    48. ben on August 22nd, 2007 9:15 pm

      45,,what hidden camera never heard this before

    49. Miss-Underestimated on August 22nd, 2007 9:15 pm

      #46, dennisintn, Joe T. said he is a MODEL son,,,,model for what? I wonder how Joe T feels about Joran’s book?
      Remember Joran’s buddy admitted that Joran go so pissed at a choler for askings for a cigarette that Joran the the choler off the bridge. Does anyone know how the guy is did he die?

      #44 your sick, did Joran send you here?

      Aruba another lonely day on the beach

    50. ben on August 22nd, 2007 9:22 pm

      40,carpe ,,But think about it if we can get oreallys arch enemy from msnbc cant remember his name to broadcast oreallys slander think of the storm that would cause.

    51. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 9:35 pm


      Was PITBULL (killed bouncer, that was found crucified in Aruba in Spring 2006)

      What was his official title at Choose A Name Bar…

      …was he in a position that’d have been

      designated as CLUB MANAGEMENT?

      Here is why I ask:


    52. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 9:43 pm

      48 ben. It is something that I concluded from; VCB installed cameras in the Excelsior (Geoff’s Father’s businesss) I have pictures of Geoff in the Holiday Inn guest rooms. Natalee’s room was changed. Natalee’s room was closed and renovated after she disappeared. Beth when staying in the room felt like she was being watched; that’s why she went to the Wydram.
      So call it either a deduction or an assumption.
      See reaver I know how to use the word “EITHER”.

    53. Carpe Noctem on August 22nd, 2007 9:45 pm

      The RED YARD CUP was the “hot cup”…
      I think.

      I believe it (drugging) may have happened

      when she chased the shot with J’s

      drink. Who pays super attention to someone

      fiddling with their own drink?

      Joran’s RED YARD CUP was tossed as he walked
      out, and he claims to have given it to
      some random American walking by.

      Do you really believe
      someone would have asked
      him for a used drink?

      How hard up do u have to
      be to want somone’s nasty
      ass backwash in a used drink,
      from an unknown?


      Bartender, check please… I’m
      callin’ it a night. -j4n

    54. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 9:46 pm

      carpe: do you have the link to the complete article: I have never seen that one.


      I think he was just titled a bouncer.

    55. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 9:50 pm
    56. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 10:02 pm

      If you want to have some serious “fun” download this program and do the searches on ARUBA.
      I found Freddie’s house. Joran’s house. The pet cemetery. Lorenzo’s house. All the hotels.
      St. Ana Church and cemetery. Charlies restuarant in San Nicolas. Grapefield Beach. Weg Fontane where the VCB shirt and glasses were found. The prison. The international school. C and C’s. What is left of “Choose a Name” and more.

    57. 10061906 on August 22nd, 2007 10:06 pm

      carpe: never mind it was right in front of my eyes.

    58. disgustedmom on August 22nd, 2007 10:12 pm

      1006….very interesting about the Dicemen game….Shango also said, The Dicemen ROLLED….and while it is easy to assume dice/rolled, you know… and while I know some have suggested Rolled had something to do with drugs (although I’ve only heard it used in reference to pot), there are other meanings of the word ROLLED such as…..

      Rolled is cop lingo for….ok, it’s hard to explain so I’ll give an example….if a cop asks X (a likely suspect) if he saw anything (to do with a crime) and X says he didn’t see anything but offers that Y might have seen something, That’s called ROLLING. And it is what Joran did when he said Deepak may have murdered/buried Natalee. It’s also what Joran did when he kept changing his story about how he got home. Rolling keeps the game messed up.

      Shango also said Mary (who was not a virgin)ROLLED and that Mary ROLLED thru the maze. To me, under this definition of ROLLED above, Mary is not Natalee, but some other female who was in on the game and has helped sent the investigation off in the wrong direction. I also think by virgin Shango meant this was not the first time Mary had been involved in this game.

      I’m glad you mentioned that Natalee had been assigned a different room at the beginning of the trip. I had heard that a long time ago but don’t recall all about it…were all 4 of the roommates in the first room together too?

      I ask that because it seems the only group of girls Joran messed with – or any local messed with- was Nat and her roommates.

    59. Vicki on August 23rd, 2007 8:37 am

      DM#58- I think you could be onto something….mary rolled….now why mention she wasnt a virgin…meaning Natalee was… and mary had been there before..maybe to make the tourist feel alittle better having another female there…remember locomary, or whatever her name was in the picture with freddy and the blonde girl that was wasted?anyone remember??

    60. Miss-Underestimated on August 23rd, 2007 9:56 am
    61. Sharon Chicago on August 23rd, 2007 10:33 am

      #44…. No it’s not enough… and it won’t be until you and the others are behind bars. Payback is coming you have not gotten away with anything…. soon…. the truth will surface.

    62. Carpe Noctem on August 23rd, 2007 10:35 am



      There’s another soul that is in the Marriott Basin. See below vid . 2nd slide in, COLOR RED, numbered 1 and 2. I have seen it for along time…

      …but have never talked about it.

      She was not the only person to lose
      her life in that effing hell hole
      that week…I believe
      the other figure to
      be a female.


      more here-


    63. 10061906 on August 23rd, 2007 10:45 am

      These latest developments, the new witness, the chance of an accidental death by overdose, and the possibility of additional accomplices re-locating the body, have changed Dompig’s view of the case.

      “I’m convinced that there’s no thing as a crime of this proportion, which goes unseen. There’s the information on there. And we just have to get it,” he says.

      But the challenges are daunting: So far, there has not been a shred of forensic evidence found in the van der Sloot house, the Kalpoe car, or anywhere else on the island.

      “It’s very rarely that you have a case that somebody just disappears and there’s hardly any evidence left behind,” says Shipper.

      read her words carefully; If they were perplexed in this case she should have said “No evidence”
      but she said “hardly any evidence”; which I interpret as there was some evidence which since has been disgarded or destroyed. Van der Straaten and Jacobs took care of that matter.

    64. 10061906 on August 23rd, 2007 10:51 am
    65. Carpe Noctem on August 23rd, 2007 11:04 am

      50,carpe ,,But think about it if we can get oreallys arch enemy from msnbc cant remember his name to broadcast oreally


      Keith Oberman?

    66. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 11:28 am

      #59, Vicki….good point about the virgin remark meaning Natalee was….

      notice how our trolls and the Joran fans on other sites like to say Natalee was not a virgin? And to read Shango one might assume Mary was Natalee and by adding that Mary was not a virgin, that upholds Joran’s fan’s and the troll’s determination that Natalee was not a virgin. But if by Shango’s remark that Mary was not a virgin he meant Natalee WAS so Mary is not Natalee, then we do indeed see the possible emergence of a female in this game other than Natalee.

      The Shango thing has always felt to me like it was one of the players in the game toying with the investigation via the anonymous internet. Shango could have remained anonymous and still stopped with the hints and just said what happened in plain talk and had no reason not to unless Shango was part of the game.

      I became even more suspicious of Shango when posters would try to guess what he meant and he would make comments about the ones who were guessing correctly. I mean, why do that? If he were going to tell if anyone got it right, then there would be no reason not to tell without hints in the first place. Shango was not afraid to give it up, thus using hints instead of just saying what he knew…he was playing the game all along….a game of ‘if I give you clues will you be smart enough to catch me’.

      Enter then, Simian who got in a sort of war with Shango. This was because Shango wanted to quit. He used the introduction of Simian as an excuse. Simian, however, was -if not the Shango person- someone right there with Shango because the posts between the two were too conveniently back to back in time.

      When did Shango quit? Or rather, when did Simian appear? Track that back and time line it to who was getting heat in the investigation and that person would be my guess as to who was playing Shango. Does it possibly coincide with Joran leaving for school in Holland? If so, the game was up simply because one of the key players was leaving the group physically, and Joran would be Shango.

    67. Sharon Chicago on August 23rd, 2007 11:42 am

      #32 No I don’t think she fell off the boat and drowned. If that was the case…it would have been quite easy to say that we were at the beach and Natalee accidently drowned. They would then be off the hook.

    68. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 11:44 am

      Would someone who is good with finding pics please try to find that pic of Joran and his gang of pimps partying in that CAVE? They had made it a party place. I only saw it once and have not been able to find it anymore.

      SM: Joran and Michael in one of the caves: (klaasend)

    69. 10061906 on August 23rd, 2007 11:45 am


    70. Vicki on August 23rd, 2007 11:51 am

      1906- thats the girl..but they were all in the back seat of deepakscar…the blonde and these two…and then once again in the hotel room….

      Carpe, I always wondered about that also…said some american asked for his red yard glass…the one with the daterape drug….cant even call it that in this case..cause I doubt Natalee would have dated him….the filthy PIG

    71. 10061906 on August 23rd, 2007 12:24 pm

      vicki: I’m not sure if this is the one you refer to?

    72. Miss-Underestimated on August 23rd, 2007 12:32 pm

      Did anyone ever notice how Paulus escapes all the scenarios talked about in the statements by the suspects?

    73. Carpe Noctem on August 23rd, 2007 12:45 pm

      QUESTION: for anyone who knows…

      In the following pic… did anyone ever ID the boat that J. and this ominous looking SKANK-POT 5000 were having some fun on?

      (pic link below)

      I was thinking that maybe he
      had a habit of boinkin’
      on a docked boat?


      Total shot in the dark, on my part.

      I know nussing!!!! -Schultz / Hogan’s Heroes

      brought his skank-o-matic girlfriends
      onto a boat

    74. Vicki on August 23rd, 2007 12:52 pm

      Yes thats it…do you see locomoco, the girl…she is always hanging with the pimps..I think she is one of them..if you get my drift…{i dont think thats her name but it is loco somethng and everyone knows loco means crazy…she is also in a hotel room with this same girl…I wonder if the 20 plus times they did this if any of the “victims” fought back..or remember anything once at home..or any got a VD???I wish we could find this girl and ask her….

    75. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 1:12 pm

      SM: Joran and Michael in one of the caves: (klaasend)

      Thanks, klassend! That’s the one I was talking about.

      Next question….any idea where this cave is?

      I assume it has been searched?

      And who is Michael? I thought that was a pick of one of the Gottenbos boys.
      SM: Not sure which cave in Aruba it is. Michael is the same kid that was in the picture of Joran with the belt around his neck. Michael went to ISA with Joran and also went on that trip to Venezuela with Joran and the others prior to Natalee going to Aruba. (klaasend)

    76. Carpe Noctem on August 23rd, 2007 1:20 pm



      SM: Did you see this? (klaasend)

    77. Carpe Noctem on August 23rd, 2007 1:42 pm

      hi klaas,



      They are a couple of
      disco queens, huh?

    78. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 1:52 pm

      # 67….#32 No I don’t think she fell off the boat and drowned. If that was the case…it would have been quite easy to say that we were at the beach and Natalee accidently drowned. They would then be off the hook.


      Sharon, I don’t necessarily think Natalee drowned either. But if she did drown while out on a boat with a bunch of goons I don’t think they would report it as accidental or otherwise because they would have had self preservational guilty consciences from having lured her off in the first place.

      J2K operated that entire night as if they were being careful about something sinister they were up to. One thing goes wrong and it gets more sinister than they had planned and the first thing they will think of is, Oh shit, not Well let’s just say she drowned accidentally and we’ll be off the hook.

      They would not want to go anywhere near having any idea what happened to Natalee after something bad happened to her because they knew from the start that they had ill intentions and would want to protect that from being discovered.

      Innocent would be the key word for them to focus on and innocent would mean they did nothing to Natalee…nothing at all…not just the final thing of an accidental drowing, but the entire thing is what they would be afraid of anyone finding out.

      So I disagree that if Natalee drowned accidentally they would think they would be off the hook; because they knew that had done unacceptable things that night and the night was all inclusive in their minds.

      Conversly, if a person had not been up to anything foul to start with and someone had accidentally drowned in their presence, THEN they would be able to believe they could say that and not be on any hook. They would not have anything to cover otherwise to be afraid of if questions were asked.

    79. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 1:58 pm

      SM: Not sure which cave in Aruba it is. Michael is the same kid that was in the picture of Joran with the belt around his neck. Michael went to ISA with Joran and also went on that trip to Venezuela with Joran and the others prior to Natalee going to Aruba. (klaasend)


      Good LORD! I didn’t know about any trip of Joran to Venezuela!

      That cave warrants checking out by some reliable cop source. It may well have been where the party was held that night..if there was a party, be it wide open or just for a few gangbangers.

    80. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 2:01 pm

      Any idea where that igloo looking thing is that Joran was photo’d in? What IS that thing?

      I mean, his haunts are important!

    81. Vicki on August 23rd, 2007 2:28 pm

      DM#78- I dont think these low lives have a conscious..or any morals..Do we realize that urine has been doing this pimping thing since 04′???and since they had gotten away with it they continued.
      Carpe, I think that pic on the boat is staged..first of all the sporter seems to be ahem,how can I put this..attracted to boys….and the only girls you see this lying filthy lowlife is with tiny baby girls..looking to be about 11 or 12. Hes so freakin ugly..and what a disgusting,dispicable little peanut to have pictures of Natalee and HER friends on his flicker sight…O YEAH hes gonna get his….UGH

    82. Miss-Underestimated on August 23rd, 2007 2:36 pm

      Klaas….Guido looks so purrrty

    83. Juan on August 23rd, 2007 3:42 pm

      Carpe i understand what you are saying….but two years is a long time for people to keep throwing out clues and guesses and hoping one person, a loved one undoubtly, returns. it’s unlikely, but possible. but what about all of our Service Men and Woman in Active Duty?

      When will we….or have we actually tired of Cindy SHEENAN……enough. if I had a loved one who disappears on a field trip, i would think in two years that i would never forget, but that i would move on with my life. certainly there is a spot for lingerers. if you want to mourn forever, i have no problem. Natalie’s probably in Heaven wishing all the supporters would get back to their normal lives.
      Long live Natalee and all the other people in the entire world who have disappeared mysteriously.

    84. Miss-Underestimated on August 23rd, 2007 4:03 pm

      Is the KLDP still in Aruba?
      Is Anita still teaching in Aruba?

    85. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 4:24 pm

      Vicki, I agree these guys don’t have a conscience for what happens to other people…I was trying to say that any sort of concern they might have would be for purely self preservational reasons.

      Yes, Joran is ugly! and he’s got monkey ears. And Satish looks like he’s been kept in a cave with the other bats far too long.

      All Joran’s girls come in groves to his house, not alone. He’s gay. They use him and his apartment. And he probably envies their underwear which is why he paid such close attention to teh detail of Natalee’s.

      Joran hates females I’m tellin’ ya! And his mom is number one on the list. She ruins all his fun and raps his and his friends fingers like some kindergarten kids. Yet they ignore her; deepak said Anita wanted him and Satish to go home. They didn’t. She’s just a nuisance to Joran and his friends, but not anything to be taken seriously. And then she stands up on television acting like she’s some saintly respected mother the world should adore, pity and admire for her strength. She’s a joke! And her husband was screwing around with her when she got pregnant with Joran out of wedlock and they didn’t get married until 2 years later. Paulus could have knocked up other women and good ole Anita got him to tie the knot before anyone else did. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have other kids out there. Obviously HE didn’t give a crap about using a franger or damn Joran would never have been born!

      Who else can I bash today? LOL

    86. Vicki on August 23rd, 2007 4:51 pm

      DM,you’re on a roll..Keep going, there is a long list. Start with the idiot Odeber,then the planet of the apes Rudy C, next please Arlene and after that anyone of the STUPID Pimps….last JR cause she is such a PIG theres not much else you can say….

    87. 10061906 on August 23rd, 2007 5:50 pm

      I posted before that IMHO: I thought Joran had an Oedipus Complex. Most men with a latent Oedipus Complex, turn out to be misogamists. Also being born out of wedlock would give him I won’t have sex without a condom syndrome. JVDS your brain was fried at 15.

    88. Carpe Noctem on August 23rd, 2007 8:10 pm

      Yehhhh, Joran and his
      “rubber” duckies, alright…

      Just who does he think he’s kiddin’
      with that I won’t have sex
      w/out a condom routine?


      If we left him home alone for just 10
      minutes, he’d be up on a ladder trying
      to insert his tallywhacker in a light
      socket. Condom, or no!

      > No condom; no noogie…

      My big toe!


    89. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 8:52 pm

      Oh, Vicki, but there is a lot to say about JR. She got mad at Beth because Beth was too smart to fall for her false concern for Natalee. So then she played the ‘oh yeah’ card and talked smak about a grieving mother just because her plans to get attention and 15 minutes of fame were over….ok, you’re right…it’s just Pig.

      And Karen J has 80′s Big Hair.

      Part of the problem with those charged with solving this case and those who perpetrated the crimes is that they are all so ugly they are jealous of Natalee and Beth who are both beautiful and classy…well, wait….forget the classy part…the Aruban sector I mentioned doesn’t know what classy is so they can’t be jealous of that.

      I have not seen one person involved in this case from Aruba, native or floated in, who is not ugly! GVC is the best of the lot, but that’s only if you don’t look above his neck.

      Arlene Shipper….she was fun to watch actually. Every day she got another piece of her makeover done so she’d look good on TV. It was funny to see her transformation as she got more spruced up with every new Greta show. You’d think this would not be about how Arlene looked on TV, but apparently it was. I’m really sorry for her that she didn’t think she was OK the way she was the first day she was on the news. I’m sure she’d been on Aruban TV before…maybe…at least she’d been happy walking around as she was for a very long time, but enter US media and she goes for the makeover. I really thought she was cute and more believable before she entered her ‘look at me’ phase.

      Paulus VDS…now there’s a hottie for ya! If you’re a walrus.

      Oh, I left out Deepak! He drives like a blue haired old lady, all slumped over his steering wheel. And his car? It’s a cheap piece of shit! Natalee did NOT tell you your car was beautiful! Stop this nonsense! Around here when people take a rice burner and spruce it up, we laugh. Did Deepak have one of those fake spoilers on the back too? I’ll bet he did…vroom vroom!

      OK…honestly, I don’t really pay attention to if a person is ugly on the outside, as long as they are not ugly on the inside then everybody is pretty in my eyes. But these creeps are ugly on the inside so there is no pretty to see in them; they are all ugly no matter if they should look like Marilyn Monroe or Brad Pitt.

      I need a cleansing!

    90. JusticeforNatalee on August 23rd, 2007 9:04 pm

      #83 Juan,

      Natalee is being denied justice on the island of Aruba and that is what the real problem is.

      No one here is moving on. We stand by the Holloway family for the long haul. Aruba is not off the hook by any means.

      Truth and Justice for Natalee Ann Holloway.

    91. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 9:16 pm

      1006…I don’t know about the Oedipus Complex…don’t do Freud, but Joran’s brain was fried first when he had to memorize his long string of names. Then to finally get that proudly under his belt only to then learn English and find out his first name is peepee? :) No wonder he thinks everything is America’s fault!

    92. Juan on August 23rd, 2007 10:51 pm

      90: Understand and thanks.

    93. disgustedmom on August 23rd, 2007 11:06 pm

      Something interesting I found here…


      It’s a blog by a girl that is supposedly from Aruba and this information was from June 2005…

      June 13
      To personal friends of Natalee H.
      To all the friends of Natalee Holloway, especially the one’s that also came along with her on the trip to Aruba. A local radio station,Top95 FM in Aruba is requesting friends of Natalee Holloway to contact them.

      You can add them on your msn list at:

      You can e-mail them at:

      Or visit them online:

      Or phone them at: 00297 5855555

      Maybe they might still be interested in discussing the case?

    94. brie on August 23rd, 2007 11:53 pm

      Joran committed a crime….Paulus knows, “No body, No case”….I’ll take care of it….Straaten, I’ll do the cover-up……the Dutch know….now what will they do to prosecute ????

    95. disgustedmom on August 24th, 2007 12:18 am

      Do they have jury trials in Aruba or is it all up to a judge?

    96. Richard on August 24th, 2007 4:09 am

      If our government will not speak out, and our tourism industry remains indifferent … the only thing that we individuals can do (besides vigilante action, which might be required at some point in some way … no more comment on that now) is to continue speaking up for Natalee and to continue pressing the boycott.

    97. Richard on August 24th, 2007 4:17 am

      Nothing is too fantastic to dismiss out of hand … this would certainly be a way of ferrying Natalee into slavery that nobody would think of.

      U.S. Customs seizes semi-submarine loaded with millions of dollars in cocaine
      The Associated Press
      August 23, 2007

      MEXICO CITY: U.S. forces intercepted a submarine-like vessel packed with tons of cocaine off the coast of Guatemala and arrested the crew.

      Four suspects were captured after they abandoned the self-propelled, semi-submersible vessel when it was discovered by officials from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard, the customs agency said in a news release Wednesday.

      The vessel was intercepted Sunday about 480 kilometers (300 miles) southwest of the Mexico-Guatemala border, the Coast Guard said.

      The craft, roughly 50 feet (15 meters) long, was abandoned by its crew as U.S. forces neared and sank a short time later. The boarding team from the USS DeWert found 11 bales containing 550 kilograms (1,210 pounds) of cocaine bobbing to the surface, the Coast Guard said.

      Coast Guard officials said the vessel was estimated to have been transporting about 5 metric tons (5.5 U.S. tons) before it sank.

    98. Carpe Noctem on August 24th, 2007 7:13 am


      Justice 4 Nat.

    99. Carpe Noctem on August 24th, 2007 7:16 am
    100. Richard on August 24th, 2007 8:05 am

      I’m not saying, of course, that the above scenario is at all likely. But it seems that something way beyond the pale is going on with this case in Aruba … and it certainly isn’t just the work of one failed wannabe judge and his punk son, and maybe other family members.

    101. Vicki on August 24th, 2007 9:29 am

      EVEVYONE READ POST 91…..Disgusted Mom that was the best post I have read yet…lol hahahahahahha
      and then 93 was very interesting…I had no idea that urine had a silver honda…..so it was very similar to deepaks????

    102. JusticeforNatalee on August 24th, 2007 9:35 am


      I believe it is a panel of three judges.
      No jury.

    103. 10061906 on August 24th, 2007 12:09 pm

      As I can recall it is one judge.
      If either the presecutor or the defendent appeal then it goes to three judges.

    104. 10061906 on August 24th, 2007 12:16 pm

      the only silver honda that Joran has is a matchbox series that he plays with in bed making believe his bed is a tunnel. Get my drift?

    105. 10061906 on August 24th, 2007 12:26 pm

      here is one reason for lack of brain power on Aruba

      No blood to the brain….. coupled with a cold black heart.

    106. disgustedmom on August 24th, 2007 12:35 pm

      Thanks everyone for the info on the judges being in charge of trials! I guess down there they couldn’t get anyone to be on a jury to begin with…if they convicted the bad guys they’d probably lose thier heads.

      Vicki…Ummm, I didn’t see where PeePee had a silver honda. Sorry if I confused. :(


      Richard, I agree that the sex trade thing seems far fetched, but it certainly is not out of the realm of possibility. I often fear that if that did happen to her, keeping her in the news might only encourage more sick customers toward her.

    107. 10061906 on August 24th, 2007 12:44 pm

      I noticed that a lot suffer from Mr. Spock finger sysndrome


      Who is the guy on the right? http://www.flickr.com/photos/joranvandersloot/76129434/in/photostream/

      Is that Sanders on the right and Guido in drag on the left?

      Who is he?

      Isn’t this loco Mary the one usually with Freddie? http://www.flickr.com/photos/joranvandersloot/82426648/in/photostream/

      I believe that is her again. She really gets around.

      They must have smeared his face with ode de la pork chop

    108. disgustedmom on August 24th, 2007 12:46 pm

      I know it’s been mentioned before that a jealous gf of Joran may have injured Natalee, so I was thinking (again)…

      Joran did make a call to his gf that night. He says she declined to go out, but did she really? I mean she was up at some late hour that night making a call to Joran which he says she left a message that he has no memory of what it was about…yeah, right…ok, so what if Joran’s gf did go out that night and found him with Natalee? She would, of course, have had to known where to go find Joran.

      Voice mail messages can be retrived by the cops if they ask the service provider to undelete recent messages. Too bad the cops were so dumb!

      Here’s why the more I think about this the more I think there was another female, probably Joran’s gf, involved…..the whole racist thing is the reason….I think Joran lured Natalee off for one of his darkie friends to begin with, and she didn’t like it once she got to where they were going and Joran’s gf was there and she was handed over.

    109. disgustedmom on August 24th, 2007 1:02 pm


      1.Joran says in his book he didn’t think Satish was coming along. That’s just bull because Satish was the one who picked Joran up and they sat outside the Internet Cafe waiting for Deepak to come out. They were all there together so why wouldn’t Joran assume Satish was going along?

      2.Deepak says he talked with a person named Ali at CC’s. Natalee asked her friend Ali Anderson if she wanted to go with her with some guys she met? Same Ali? Maybe, maybe not, but it doesn’t really matter. All that matters is that Joran wanted more girls than just Natalee.

      3.Joran called his gf to see if she wanted to go out after he had already called around to see if any goons wanted to go with him with some girls he met. So Joran was fixing up his buds/pimping and that’s why he acted so disinterested in Natalee at CC’s. It was not on his mind that he would hook up with Natalee so he did not want to make it appear so.

      4.Somebody is definitely home on the Kalpoe computer, but it only had to be one. So if Joran had his gf and Natalee had 1K then that leaves the other K on the computer and Satish is the only one without an alibi and he missed school the next day. Satish raped Natalee? Joran was an accomplice luring her away under false pretenses?

      Gotta go take care of a sick doggie. Don’t know when I’ll get back on here.

    110. Miss-Underestimated on August 24th, 2007 2:03 pm


      Licking lips and drinking water, like he did in that interview is a sign of someone lying.

      Put some bolts on the sides of the neck on that pics and we got MEOWWWWW, Frankie

    111. Miss-Underestimated on August 24th, 2007 2:57 pm


      In red letters no less.

      Paulus has escaped all the statements made by the suspects, WHY?

    112. Sharon Chicago on August 24th, 2007 3:29 pm

      Natalie was not sold as a sex slave to another country…that did not happen…..Joran and 2K’s and Daddy’O and others abused her and ended her life.

      I mean, why would they allow themselves to be marked as the last people to have been with her then sell her to someone as a sex slave. Nope does not add up.

    113. Sharon Chicago on August 24th, 2007 4:17 pm

      I think someone will talk soon. It has been over two years… I think they are thinking they made it over the mountain….someone will get very sloppy now…. just wait and see!

    114. yoyo muffintop on August 24th, 2007 6:43 pm

      #112 – How does this add up:
      “Joran and 2K’s and Daddy’O and others abused her and ended her life.”

      But this doesn’t:
      “I mean, why would they allow themselves to be marked as the last people to have been with her then sell her to someone as a sex slave.”

      How does one add up but the other doesn’t? Your basis is “last seen”. Wouldn’t they have been “last seen” in both scenarios?

    115. disgustedmom on August 24th, 2007 8:12 pm

      yoyo, stop trying to find ways to perfect Joran’s crime.

    116. disgustedmom on August 24th, 2007 8:26 pm

      So today they sentenced that Couly thing to death for raping and murdering-by buring her alive- that 9 year old girl. They judge had to read the case info again and I heard the following said that reminded me of Aruba…

      CoulyThing said he didn’t understand why everyone was so upset…it was all in the past now. ….sounds like Aruba saying why so upset over one girl?…and Joran’s fanclub saying It’s been 2 years, let it go…and Joran’s fanclub saying There’s all this other stuff in the world to worry about now.

      CoulyThing said he buried the girl alive because he didn’t want to kill her with his own hands….makes you wonder if they just put her somewhere and let her die of starvation. Remember, Joran has said several times he thought she was probably dead BY NOW.

      CoulyThing said he couldn’t let her go free because she would tell on him….no need to comment on this one.

      CoulyThing said the girl got in the garbage bag on her own free will….after he told her he would take her home if she got in there so no one would see her coming out of his trailer….just like Nat got in the car on her won free will….after Joran lied to her about what he really was and what he was up to.

      You know it sure follows a familiar pattern doesn’t it?

    117. 10061906 on August 24th, 2007 8:35 pm

      1.Joran says in his book he didn’t think Satish was coming along. That’s just bull because Satish was the one who picked Joran up and they sat outside the Internet Cafe waiting for Deepak to come out. They were all there together so why wouldn’t Joran assume Satish was going along?

      But Deepak says he went home from work and bathed then he and Satish went to pick up Joran.

      This whole friggen’ mess is nothing but lies and a mind game.

    118. yoyo muffintop on August 24th, 2007 10:58 pm

      #96 Richard – “the only thing that we individuals can do (besides vigilante action, which might be required at some point in some way”

      Your credibility meet the window ’cause it just went out of it. Ask Tony Lorin Blakeney about vigilante justice. Oh wait you can’t since he’s dead. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11125863/
      Justice and punishment should NOT be guided by banal, primitive, un-tempered emotions.

    119. brie on August 25th, 2007 12:16 am

      yoyo fried dough…..bag it!!!!!!!!! We’ve asked for justice..over and over and over again…and then some……it’s reached it’s LIMIT’S…….and beyond!!!!!! You have no credibility here!!!! There is no justice and punishment in Aruba….

    120. yoyo muffintop on August 25th, 2007 2:17 am

      #113 – there are 73 pages of witness statements/etc. in the Kalpoe/Dr Phil case. You’ve seen maybe 5 pages. How are you able to judge when you haven’t seen the other 68? And I’m sure there’s more. http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/images/MemoKalpoe.pdf
      Being so sure after seeing so little is not logical…as Mr Spock would say.

      Richard- Your out of character vigilante comments in #96 aside, The slavery thing actually has more merit than 99% of the theories here that believe Natalee was killed by PJ@K (take your pick).

      Oct 2006 Beth gets a call from Natalee: “”It just had some very little key elements in it. The first thing that I hear on the voice mail is — it almost sounds as if it’s a foreigner, and they say, ‘Yeah. And then you hear, it’s almost like a clank, like they’re shifting the phone. And then there’s music playing in the background, and then I hear what to me is a very subdued — a vocal utterance from Natalee. And Dr. Phil, you know, I’ve never told anyone this. I’ve never disclosed this to anyone, and I’m really pretty level-headed. But I’m a pediatric speech pathologist, and I’ve done this for 22 years. That’s how I’ve made my career is listening to vocal utterances. This was my trained profession of hearing the utterance on this voice mail thinking that it was her.”
      “And this call came in when?” asks Dr. Phil.
      “October the third at 6:50 p.m.,” she replies.”
      “OK, so that’s about five weeks ago,” he deduces. “OK, and our analyst said, you know, ‘Forget about what they talk about on television, and CSI and that sort of thing. The only person that’s ever going to be able to tell if that’s Natalee is her mother.”(Dr Phill Show)

      “Jay Leno 11/1/06 :D r. Phil was hesitant to reveal what he termed, “too much information” Wednesday night. However, the doctor’s light-hearted appearance on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno turned serious when discussing the issue of the missing Alabama teenager.

      “Without giving up too much information… we believe Natalee Holloway is alive.’

      Dr. Phil pointing to what he termed the “sex slave market” as the main point of focus in the ongoing investigation.”

      McGraw pointed to what he termed the “sex slave market” as the main point of focus in the ongoing investigation. (SM)

      Problem is it doesn’t deal with PJ2K killing Natalee. Unless 99% wanna change their theory. Any takers?

    121. Vicki on August 25th, 2007 8:02 am

      116-DM how can a whole Island think like that slimebucket???the same freakin mentality…crazy

    122. disgustedmom on August 25th, 2007 11:18 am

      yoyo offered: Justice and punishment should NOT be guided by banal, primitive, un-tempered emotions.

      Oh but covering up a crime that was committed by banal primitive and untempered emotions with the same banal primitive and untempered emotions IS ok?

      And stick this in your pipe and smoke it….Justice and punishment should not be guided by banal, primitive and un-tempered emotions…tell that to ALE so they might actually realize why they have not been guided toward justice and punishment in this case.

    123. disgustedmom on August 25th, 2007 12:55 pm

      #117 – 1006

      Aw Satish!

      Don’t forget that Joran’s ORIGINAL story -now lost to the crashed boards epidemic-was that Satish picked him up just before 10PM to go get Deepak who was supposed to get off work at 10PM that night, the café closing at 10 on Sundays; Deepak had to wait until a few customers finished the internet time they had bought so he didn’t get out until almost 11PM. Joran and Satish waited outside in the car in the parking lot.

      MB statements corroborate that as they say Joran was with the girls at the HI bar at 9:45 and left suddenly after 5 minutes, thus making it 9:50 which is just before 10PM and just about the time he would have gotten in the car with Satish to get to Deepak’s work by 10PM, not knowing Deepak would be delayed.

      Joran was not alone at 11PM. Paulus did not pick him up at McD’s at 11PM. Joran was with 2K at 11PM.

      Why then did Paulus say he picked Joran up at McD’s at 11PM? What’s that lie for?

      How about this possibility….because Paulus had a phone call to cover up…one that did not say Come get me and bring me home, but one that said I’m going out tonight, or Things are on track, but whatever it was, Paulus let his minor child do it!

      Now one would ask Why would Paulus want to pretend he did not know Joran was out that night? And this is different from saying he picked him up at 11PM. This is a separate cover.

      And the answer to that could be because Paulus knew something userish of tourists was going to go on IN ADVANCE of it going on. He could have just not wanted anyone to think he blessed off on Joran being out late or going to an adult party when he was a minor, but that’s not really enough to concern ole Paulus. Every bar and casino and his dad and mom knew Joran did things his age did not allow legally. This time it mattered because there was a tourist involved, and Paulus had to have known this or else why pretend he had issues with what Joran did all the time all of a sudden.

      So, so far I am speculating that Paulus knew Joran was going out that night and he knew where he was going and he knew Joran was enticing a tourist to go there too. 2K were with Joran from 11PM on, and Satish was with Joran from 10PM on. And Paulus did not want anyone to know he knew what was going on, so he lied about the reason for the 11PM phone call and from that 2K had to change the original story to say they went home and cleaned ants and showered and watched tv and farted around until 12:30AM when they entered CC’s.


      Now 12:30 is a suspicious time, not just because it was almost closing time, but because J2K were together from 11 on so where did they go from 11 to 12:30? I haven’t figured that one out yet, but I’m sure it is important. I don’t think they were at Joran’s apartment or else there would have been no need to call Paulus at 11.

    124. disgustedmom on August 25th, 2007 1:00 pm

      And don’t forget the other original story Deepak told….

      Joran and Natalee were messing around in his backseat and Natalee got upset about it and got out of the car. Joran started to go after her but Deepak admonished him to Leave the Bitch. Joran, however, did get out and chased Natalee down, she fell and bumped her head, and Joran finally talked her into getting back in the car.

      Of course, following this, they took her back to the HI.

      My personal ending on that story is that they took her to see Paulus because Natalee was threatening to cry rape.

    125. dave on August 25th, 2007 3:31 pm

      pay no attention to the sick troll yo yo.

    126. mayan_moons on August 25th, 2007 4:10 pm

      #118 you talking about Richard’s credibility or anyone else’s for that matter is sooo laughable.
      And do you really think you can deter what Paul & jurine have coming to them and are going to get one day in near future? Sorry but you have no power here nor anywhere else for that matter. The Kalpuke’s & the father/son kidnap, rape and murder team should wonder everyday their eyes open if TODAY is gonna be the day for them. Is it going to be upclose and personal or will it be a sniper shot, or some other way. There’s a million ways to die yip yap, its just a question of which one and when it will happen.

    127. mayan_moons on August 25th, 2007 4:19 pm

      Now i wouldn’t mind seeing the carnage of what is done to them on the internet one bit but the end for them may come with no one arround & no outward evidence of murder but i think will know in their gut when they hear these killer’s are dead there will be NO DOUBT that they just got theirs.

    128. 10061906 on August 27th, 2007 12:51 pm
    129. stoney on August 27th, 2007 1:56 pm

      To # 58 “rolled” is a referance to being high on the exstacy drug. which is ironic that supposedly joran was on exstacy and that is what shango said the “dicemen rolled”

    130. Maggie on August 27th, 2007 5:46 pm

      I agree ..questioning Richard’s credibility when it’s something bad against J2K and Paulus..and then giving him credibility when it takes away from pointing the finger at Paulus or JK2. Still believing these 3 had nothing to do with what happened to Natalee.. based on the credibility of 3 liars. too funny..

    131. Carpe Noctem on August 27th, 2007 9:41 pm

      I pray everyday that Vandersloot SR. and JR.

      have their heads blown off of their shoulders

      with a nice, tight, carefully placed sniper shot,

      out from 2 or 3 football fields away.

      I have never seen two people SO WORTHY

      of a free complimentary dirt bath in all my life!

      Those 2 ah’s make O.J. look like

      “Beaver Clever.” My hate for Paulus and Joran is

      refined and pure. I pray God delivers upon them

      whatever it is he feels they deserve. I don’t

      know what that’ll be, but I know it ain’t gonna

      be good.


    132. yoyo muffintop on August 27th, 2007 9:46 pm

      Maggie – Did Tony Lorin Blakeney deserve to have “justice” served on him? No. Those people killed him because they did not have all the information in the case. Richard wants to serve “justice” on PJ2K. Do you, he, or anyone else here calling for the vigilante death of these characters have all the information in the case? No.
      It’s quite simple.

    133. 10061906 on August 28th, 2007 9:57 am

      It is quite obvious that we would not want any mistakes and be responsible for a wrongful death.
      Four left Carlos and Charlie’s
      Three made it home
      Natalee did not
      Where is Natalee?
      None who last were with her have at anytime told the truth.
      Or perhaps they have but there are so many versions; which is the right one?
      The stories and lies have changed so much that they rival the number of revolutions in South American countries.
      Why is it that almost every associate of the lead suspect; including the father
      have been arrested on serious charges and all have been released?
      Why is it that the three suspects and the father have lied and hindered the investigation; yet no one has been prosecuted or served time in prison? Why hasn’t the ALE prosecuted any of the suspects when it has proven they were in violation of Aruban Laws.
      IMO the investigation has been handled like a carnival shell game.
      No; I would not want anyone harmed until we learn what happened to Natalee and where she is or locate her remains. Then you can turn them over to a group that we know loves to torture and kill dogs.

    134. 10061906 on August 28th, 2007 3:05 pm

      Does anyone know what ever happened to the Superior Court of California’s motion that was postponed until August 24th against Deepak and Satish. Document 363201 Dept 69.
      Was any decision rendered?

      Where is the 2nd half translation of Joran’s book?
      Any idea when it will be available?
      SM: #1 Postponed now to August 30th. #2 Parts of the 2nd half of Jorans book can be found here (originally posted at Scrux) http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

    135. Maggie on August 28th, 2007 3:09 pm

      First of all, I want you to show where I called for the vigilante death of J2K or Paulus.
      Although, I understand how some people get frustrated and feel that way.

      An 18 year old girl has lost her life and all they can do is play sick mind games with the parents and lie, lie, lie…Just what we know about them from their own mouths and actions, shows some very disturbed people.

      You were talking about credibility before.. What kind of credibility does J2K and Paulus have? There is nothing to back up anything they say about what happened that night. There isn’t even anything to back up the reason Natalee got in the car with them. Nooooo proof they were at the beach or anything they say..and yet you constantly try to bring out a pantless man on the beach based on the credibility of 3 liars. Slavery with nothing indicating slavery at all. Last dr Phil show.. was JQK, Beth and Steve Cohen saying saying these boys did something terrible to your daughter and I and the prosecutor think they are guilty. Beth and JQK in so many words said they wouldn’t get their hopes up much yet because Aruba had put them on a roller coaster many times before, then did nothing. There is not a doubt in my mind that some of these officers and a few others know exactly what happened to Natalee and they’ve known it all along. All of them in some way have said Natalee is dead.

      There might be more EVIDENCE if anyone had bothered collecting it, instead of waiting 9 or 10 days or so..all part of the plan to make sure there was none. Natalee could’ve been fed to sharks, cremated, buried, taken out to sea,,you name it in 10 days. 3 guys and the parents don’t go to all this trouble when they are innocent of wrong doing.. What a joke!!! If they were innocent cooperating and telling the truth would be the first thing that would clear them. Instead they have all lied lied lied lied lied lied lied lied…and said I’m not talking to police.. Then go out on tv time and time again with 100 dif versions of more lies.. PSYCHO!!!! I don’t know any teenage boy, who would give his mom 3 thick kisses on the lips when he gets in trouble.. Bragging you been drinking and having sex since you were 13 and it takes a case of beer to get you drunk..Gambling all night, drinking, smoking amongst other things underage and Mom is on tv trying to say you don’t drink or do drugs or gamble for money. Lots of credibility there, to believe when these 4 say They don’t know what happened to Natalee, that we should believe them??? No thanks…they shot their credibility the first night.

    136. 10061906 on August 29th, 2007 12:53 pm

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