The Dana Pretzer Show – Friday, June 8th, 2007 – Special Guests: Tim Miller, Robert Peters & Janice Smolinski


The Dana Pretzer Show: Friday 9:00 pm et

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  • Comments

    314 Responses to “The Dana Pretzer Show – Friday, June 8th, 2007 – Special Guests: Tim Miller, Robert Peters & Janice Smolinski”

    1. Robert on June 8th, 2007 8:21 pm

      Off topic.

      Joran was on the Jensen-show tonight, some hours ago. Jensen really tried to get things out of Joran, really pressed him, but unfortunatly… No confessions.

      I translated the first part of the interview. Maybe the rest will follow tomorrow (if you’re interested). I skipped the 10 to 15 minutes long introduction.

      Some remarks from the introduction:
      - Joran van der Sloot. And his side of the story… And I wonder… In the bookstore… Is it in the Fiction or Non Fiction section?! (LOL) That’s what we’re trying to find out tonight.
      - We’re just going to have a chat. … I’ll give you something to drink… I will not get you drunk (LOL). That’s not perticularly good for my image…

      The interview.

      Jensen: Just a thing… You went that night to… What is it… Carlos and Charlie?
      Joran: That’s a club at Aruba. A discotheque over there. That’s the name…
      Jensen: That’s a well known club?
      Joran: Yes that’s very well known… For tourists… Very well known.
      Jensen: Because I know some people that have been there. And they told me it was a… And that was before this all played… They really said: this was really a whores-joint.
      Joran: Yes. It is a… Well whores-joint… I don’t know that but there are people dancing. And there are all kinds of these special drinks. And there are shows…
      Jensen: And these special drinks are those things that… Let’s say… That you put a drink on your bellybutton and then you can lick it off. And I don’t know what? …
      Joran: Yes something like that. And drinks that are a meter high. That you can drink from.
      Jensen: And girls that shoot pingpong-balls from places… (LOL) … Yes, that’s possible… I think… Yes, am I right or not?
      Joran: Yes, yes…
      Jensen: These type of very erotic shows?
      Joran: Yes, yes.
      Jensen: So, that kind of atmospere. And many Americans come there who are on springbreak and these kind of things.
      Joran: Yes, yes.
      Jensen: And I know… Americans on springbreaks… they go through the roof…
      Joran: Yes that’s right.
      Jensen: Am I right?
      Joran: Well I think it is… The drinking age over there (in the US) is 21…
      Jensen: That’s it yes.
      Joran: And on Aruba… You can… when you’re 18… you can drink legaly. So: everyone over there… who comes there…
      Jensen: … goes through the roof…
      Joran: … can get their hands on alcohol.
      Jensen: Of course! They go through the roof. And uh… You sometimes were there, weren’t you? Well let’s… for a minute… guy to guy… A perfect spot, when you live there, to every now and then flirt-and-score somewhat with a tourist who likes that as well. And does that ones.
      Joran: Yes it was like that. We went there every other week or sometimes even every week… Every weekend.
      Jensen: … So… with the hand-held-vacuum-cleaner (translater: don’t know what thats called in the US) check what is there to be sucked up… (LOL)
      Joran: Yeah… I…
      Jensen: … (LOL) … No, I just think that’s the way these joints are… Isn’t it… So… Like… You regularly… Well. … So in the end you had gotten in contact with Natalee… And there you met her again…
      Joran: Yes (Nods his head.)
      Jensen: And she was… Well… She as well was that kind of girl… that went through the roof that night, am I right?
      Joran: Well the time I was with her in total was only some three hours…
      Jensen: Well, you don’t stand there with a mineral water…
      Joran: No, no… She was dancing on the podium. And she called me to come dance with her. So I…
      Jensen: And, and… you didn’t think she was that attractive… right?
      Joran: No I had met her and her friend in the casino and… In the Excelsior casino at Aruba and uh, in fact I was talking to a friend of her… And when I arrived there (C&C’s) it was like: “You must go with Natalee… You must go to her…
      Jensen: Her friends said that?
      Joran: Yes, yes…
      Jensen: They tried to direct you to her…
      Joran: Yes.
      Jensen: And then you did that?
      Joran: Yes, then I went there
      Jensen: But you do that… You do that on your initiative? I mean… You do that every week with the hand-held-vacuum-cleaner…
      Joran: Yes… that’s right…
      Jensen: You choose yourself who you want to suck up?
      Joran: Yes that’s right but sometimes it even gets easier when… yes…
      Jensen: She was… she was very easy that night, let’s say… That night?
      Joran: Well I of course find it very difficult to speak bad of her… But that moment I thought that yes… Well just… That’s an easy girl…
      Jensen: And your intention was… With her we’re going to… let’s say… We’re going to get bussy with her… We’re going to bed with her… and the next day we… Hoppa… Were going to school again…. That idea?
      Joran: (Nods) Yes.
      Jensen: You were 17 years old then, were you not?
      Joran: Yes I was 17 then.
      Jensen: But what a life you have on Aruba haven’t you?
      Joran: Yes, I think it’s every boys dream to grow up on an island. Cause you have everything. You can always be outside… Always to the beach… Yes, it’s just beautifull there.
      Jensen: And you have always been a player let’s say, with the ladies? You come across that way to me a bit.
      Joran: Well, it’s different there.

    2. buckeye on June 8th, 2007 8:55 pm

      Thank you. I know this took a lot of time. You’re great!

    3. Scared Monkeys on June 8th, 2007 10:00 pm

      SM: Thanks Robert! Much appreciated! (klaasend)

    4. LilPuma on June 8th, 2007 10:11 pm

      Thank goodness for the Janice Smolinski’s, the John Walsh’s and Tim Miller’s of the world. Our government officials, at all levels, fail us time and again and it’s everyday people who make a difference. It might be introducing new legislation as Mrs. Smolinski discussed, maybe it’s fighting the cruise lines on behalf of cruise ship victims like George Smith’s sister is doing, it might be talking to young people to make them aware of the perils of traveling abroad like Beth Holloway has done, or it could be “monkeys” going to a travel show to keep the lack of justice for Natalee Holloway in people’s minds, but the impact that a small group of determined people can have should never be underestimated.

      As Margaret Mead said, “Never doubt that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”

    5. LilPuma on June 8th, 2007 10:13 pm

      Thank you for the translation, Robert!

    6. Brie on June 8th, 2007 10:26 pm

      Robert…Thank You

    7. evilive on June 8th, 2007 11:07 pm

      Waterboy let me say it for you. My name is mud on the site anyway. It is very simplistic to determine what has happened once you have some background information and know who the players are. Unfortunately there are a lot of little stories revolving around Aruba and what is going on. Where to start where to start???
      How can Jug; as a manager of a metal company, finance a ¼ interest in a land development company along with Greta’s husband and some Dutch and Germans investors on Aruba?
      What is the real reason they got such a fast divorce?
      Why is PVDS and Jan so disliked by the Arubans. What happened? Is it simply because they are Dutch? It is known that the Mansur family does not like them; especially that they are Dutch.
      You have on Aruba: sex rings, porn rings, druggies, a night club that spikes drinks and a hotel with hidden cameras.
      Why do you need a security force when you have 280 plus police? Why do they look like swat teams? Did the owner leave Holland as a policeman to be a spy on Aruba? Why all the so-called sophisticated equipment, and ATV’s and beach patrols at night? Is it crime control or spying? Why is Jan van der Straaten so disliked? Why did Oduber want him off the case? Why did the FBI not participate in the questioning? Dirty Hand is not Dutch, Dirty Hand is not Aruban. Dirty Hand is …..
      When Michael Dompig and Geoffery van Cromvoirt worked for the VCB Team; why couldn’t the police work with them. What was so bad that it got them fired. Fired from his own father’s business and fired even though your father, Michael is the Police Commissioner? Why did Michael rat on Geoff? Why did Guido leave for Holland right after Natalee disappeared, even though his cousin was the Aruban spokesperson? Did Geoff go back to Holland also? Did his father? You have his sister who is Dutch on a majority of Aruban Police force. When you remove the impossible, what remains is usually the truth. Natalee was taken because of revenge. Why can’t they get their stories straight? They lie; but not to save their asses from prison; but to save their asses.
      Natalee probably suffered from some form of A.D.D. or a compulsive disorder. She could tell which chap stick was missing; and an over obsession with the Wizard of Oz.
      Because of this she could have been a chemical reaction ready to implode. She appeared naïve and innocent. But a young woman ready to explode. She apparently got a lot of attention from the pimps and did not know how to handle it. Also based on what her father said and her school mates, Natalee may have been a borderline alcoholic. Natalee was stalked from the time she arrived and changed rooms. By the way the key from the Hague did not arrive. That would have been Paulus’ certification as judge. Deepak protects Satish because he appears to be somewhat mentally challenged. Deepak drives Natalee and Joran from C and C’s to a side road lover’s lane by the Marriot. Here is where I believe they had sex with her. Deepak drives off and leaves Joran to take Natalee back to the Hotel. A white car has shadowed Deepak all night. The car appears and they try to grab Natalee and a scuffle breaks out. Joran gets a black eye and Natalee gets bruised when she is knocked down.
      There are two factions working against one another. Those that think they are trying to solve the case and those that know that will never happen. As they throw Natalee into this other car, they bind her with duct tape and stick a piece of foam in her mouth. She is subdued with chloroform which may have reacted with her medication. The drugs that Dompig keeps talking about.
      The white car drives off into the night towards the lighthouse. The Colorado lighthouse.
      Who released the casino tapes and why? Posner says he did. But why? We have only seen the portion that shows Joran and the MBHS students together with Natalee. It is very convenient that the man to Natalees left looks like and could be Paulus. Ruth, Lee and Madison should be able to tell. Or have they?
      Then there was the xxx rated video from the Netherlands web site entitled Natalee and Joran I and II. It shows a naked couple engaging in sex on the water and the beach. Was this an attempt to instill in our minds that, even though it is not true, Natalee would seem promiscuous? The video link has disappeared but the still frame captures live on. However I know the FBI had a copy to review.
      Joran’s mouth will get him in trouble so now he lies to save his ass.
      Who is Dirty Hand?
      I believe Natalee was taken south though every one was looking north. She may have been taken to San Nicholas or an area called Weg Fontaine.
      Why? She was taken and held captive because of what someone else did and held to be traded for something. But she was kidnapped by the criminal element. That was the revenge. Who may have kidnapped her? Geoff, Michael and Guido come to mind.
      It was a chance happening that everything fell together for the criminal element. The trip Natalee took to Aruba sealed her fate the moment she got off the plane.
      Natalee has been found. Natalee is dead. One of the three is confessing. Next day what are you talking about she is missing. Natalee may have been kept as long as June 9th or June 10th. During her captivity she was either killed or died from induced drugs to keep her sedated. If she is found dead; there are too many questions to be answered. It is like when a child asks for something and you say no. That is usually final. But if you say yes and bag of worms could be opened. Natalee is a missing person. Remember there is the industrial incinerator at the refinery. Someone has Natalee’s belongings so that if verification is needed why she was taken by ……. Oh by the way Dirty Hand is so many on Aruba, is encoded in this posting.

    8. Janet on June 8th, 2007 11:27 pm

      Thank you Dana and … thank you Tim.
      Beth Twitty
      ‘Rita Cosby Live & Direct’
      January 12, 2006
      TWITTY: Well, I think Tim Miller was exactly right. This is not a new lead. This is something that we have discussed with the FBI since as early as September. And, you know, I think that it was in the-in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that’s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.
      Tim Miller
      On the Record /w Greta
      November 1, 2005
      VAN SUSTEREN: Tonight the volunteers that were searching for Natalee Holloway are all back in the United States. Why did they leave the island? Tim, why did you leave the island?
      MILLER: Well Greta, we did everything we could do over there. We were lead to the water by Chief Dompig in an area he wanted us to search. We started from shore and moved out. We had two sets of side scan sonar over there. We had a forensic underwater dive team. Another very experienced dive team had their equipment there. He wanted us to go 3 to 5 miles out and start clearing stuff from the shore out. We let him know early on that we could a limited amount with the equipment we had. We could actually go to 150 ft deep, which is deep. But, when we got out past 1 ½ miles, we needed equipment that would take us 800 to 1000 ft deep.
      We actually got that equipment, made arrangements to get it over there. All that was needed was an informal phone call request to have that stuff over there. It looked like we had a real line of communication going with Chief Dompig last Wed. He praised everything we were doing, and then last Thursday [after Dave left on Wednesday], all communication just stopped. Then when I talked to him Friday morning, he was basically kind of ugly to me on the phone. He said, “I do not have time to sit down and write little letters for everything.” I said chief it’s not even a letter, it’s a simple phone call. He said that would have to go through the prosecuting attorney. We actually had all the equipment to do that search for Aruba at absolutely no cost. I just felt as though…I don’t know what happened; we lost communication. It is very, very frustrating.
      VAN SUSTEREN: To whom was he supposed to make the phone call?
      MILLER: We actually had our team from Florida State University. Our underwater divers actually had a connection with somebody with the Navy who was willing to go ahead and bring their equipment. Gene Ralston, one of our members has equipment to go 800ft deep and he’s done a lot of stuff with the FBI and made those contacts. We gave Chief Dompig the phone number at the FBI. They were willing to bring their equipment. Gene was willing to bring his equipment. Everything just literally stopped. We had no clue what went wrong, our trip was basically in vain.

    9. Robert on June 9th, 2007 5:29 am

      Next piece of the Jensen – JvdSloot interview.

      Joran: Well, it’s different there. It’s uh… You have to… It’s quite… It’s different there than it is over here. The culture is different as well. I think that if once you’ve lived there for some years that you then ….
      Jensen: It’s more free over there?
      Joran: It’s much freer. Everyone is more open than over here, I think.
      Jensen: And about sex as well. And you come across… On such an… With all those tourists that come by… Who like to do something with the local boy or the local girl, let’s say. And than go back again. Well when I was 17, I went out every so often and then I would go stand in front of a mirror like this… (Makes gesture as if he is cleaning his face from pimpels and makes very puberal sounds…) (LOL) But not the free life like that you did have. Okay. Well alright. You think… Easy. I have to get her to… And then you went to the beach.
      Joran: Yes, finaly we then went to the beach. We then got…
      Jensen: What do you mean with finaly? You had danced a little…
      Joran: Yes… When we got there… The C&C’s already closes at one o’clock. On that day, that sunday it closed at one o’clock. So then… when it was closingtime she herself asked if she could come with me… And I don’t have a car myself. The… We were with the car of friends of mine. And then I asked them… if she could come along. Well no problem, so…
      Jensen: With the intention to go to the beach?
      Joran: Well not realy… at that moment… intention no. I though I’ld rather go to her hotel.
      Jensen: Why didn’t she want that?
      Joran: She realy didn’t want that. (Is very positive about that.) No… I realy suggested that. But she didn’t want to go to the hotel.
      Jensen: Because she said: “Well let’s go to the beach”, that idea?
      Joran: Yes, she wanted to go to the beach, and uh… She told me herself that she wanted to go see sharks. And uh…
      Jensen: On the…
      Joran: Yes, at night…
      Jensen: But she was… Had gone through the roof… let’s say..?
      Joran: Yes, it was uh… I didn’t see her myself… I didn’t see how much she had drank.
      Jensen: Well, you do know that Joran. You get there all the time. You know what it is…?
      Joran: Yes…. She’d had a few drinks if you ask me… Yes, but I’d had a few drinks myself so…
      Jensen: You were quite uh? (Makes drinking gesture.)
      Joran: No, no, no… I only had a few drinks. I got there… And only had two drinks…
      Jensen: You had two drinks? The whole evening just two drinks? You were not…
      Joran: Yes, we were there in that club… When we came there it already closed within two hours. So…
      Jensen: But before that… You hadn’t drank?
      Joran: No, before that I hadn’t drank. No…
      Jensen: (Can’t hear.) So, just very brief… Beach… You went to the beach… And did those two friends drop you off?
      Joran: Uhm… They dropped me off there, yes.
      Jensen: And on the beach uh… What happened then?
      Joran: Uuhh, that beach is…
      Jensen: Did those two friends drive away then?
      Joran: Yes they drove away then. They left then. That uh… beach is a couple of hundred meters from her hotel. And uh… you can either… yes… Go further on the beach were there are no hotels or in the direction of her hotel.
      Jensen: So… Only a couple of hundred meters… (Can’t hear.) Is that some 5 minutes of walking?
      Joran: No, less.
      Jensen: Less?
      Joran: Yes.
      Jensen: Less? So, that close?
      Joran: Yes. … (Can’t hear.) Aruba is not a big island. Because… That northern strip of all the hotels all lies… These hotels all lie very close to one another.
      Jensen: So where you went with here you say, is not even a 5 minute walk from her hotel?
      Joran: Well, I think some five minutes off walking.
      Jensen: So on that beach.., from that beach you can go easily to the hotel? So, so… that is really close to the hotel?
      Joran: Yes. And neither in a hidden place or something… People always walk over there at nights so…
      Jensen: Okay. So at the beach… And you wanted to have sex with her…
      Joran: (Smug faced, as if he shifts to the “lying-mode”…) Yes.
      Jensen: On the beach?
      Joran: Yahmm.
      Jensen: And she wanted that as well because she constantly was… Well, pulling on you? (LOL)
      Joran: Yeah she was… Yes we were intimite some time… But uhm…
      Jensen: And you had sex with her?
      Joran: No. No, no, no. I didn’t have condoms with me. And that just is… Yes… That’s the reason I didn’t have sex uuhh with her. Some people say: Well, you’re a man… You would have had sex with her. But that’s something of me… One of my principles on which I always uh, stood ferm on.
      Jensen: Not… Uh, you don’t do it with a condom.
      Joran: Well.., YES. ONLY with a condom. (LOL)
      Jensen: No, no, no, no, no…. I didn’t mean it like that… (LOL) Okay. So if you don’t have a condom with you then you just don’t do it.
      Joran: Neah.
      Jensen: That suprises me.
      Joran: Well, yes…
      Jensen: You don’t come across like that…
      Joran: Well… It really is like that…
      Jensen: And you didn’t let’s say.., had fellatio performed on you? By her?
      Joran: Uh yes?!
      Jensen: So.., you did have that? … At that moment it’s like… What, what, what… What was the atmosphere like then? You had something like… Well yes… My little pleasure is over now and I want to go home. I have to get up early?
      Joran: Yes, that was what it was like … I had told her that I had school the next day and uh… Well, yes she wanted that I’ld stay with her… Looking at the stars… She said she had to leave the next day… Well, yes… And she didn’t want to go back and uh… You name it… And I uh, just wanted to go home. So…
      Jensen: And what… Your little pleasure… It was done, let’s say… And… You had done it… It was over for you?
      Joran: Yes, at that moment it was… as you say it…. Yes.
      Jensen: And she says, No I want to stay here?
      Joran: (Can’t hear.)
      Jensen: And she…. Was she emotional?
      Joran: No, no… (Hesitant.) … Well she was… When I (Can’t hear.) with her… I never noticed something strange at her. She acted very normal.
      Jensen: … … And… then she was… Then there was an impasse cause she wanted to stay and you wanted to go home? … And then you left… You say?
      Joran: I left her there then, yes. Because I, yes, at that moment, I felt like: If you don’t want to go back to your hotel… Well yes… Bad luck… Because I will never see you again anyhow…
      Jensen: Yes… And you went…. What did you do next?
      Joran: And then I went home.
      Jensen: But how did… And that is…that is… How did you go home?
      Joran: Uhm… A brother of Deepak, Satish dropped me off at home.
      Jensen: He got… Did you phone him or something like that? Or was he still waiting for you there?
      Joran: No, no, no… I rang him. The police has investigated that as well. The only telephonecall… The only telephonecall that was made from my telephone that night. That was to Deepak. And he sent his brother to pick me up. And he dropped me off at home.
      Jensen: Why did she… Why did they… Because this is… This is what’s still very mysterious… How you got home from the beach?
      Joran: Yes, that is… I feel it is very bad/sad (?)…
      Jensen: And I feel now… That for the first time in this conversation… You get tensed, don’t you? When you… That… This is…. This is a very controversial thing…
      Joran: Yes, of course… It is… They simply denie that I was picked up… And uh… that they have dropped me off at home (Translator: They?!)
      Jensen: Those two brothers don’t say that they’ve brought you home?
      Joran: No… They don’t admit that no…
      Jensen: They are two FRIENDS of yours?
      Joran: Not anymore, no… (LOL)
      Jensen: No, I don’t understand that…. No… Why.., why, why don’t they say that this has happened.
      Joran: Uh, yes uh… I wouldn’t know… Maybe to… for themselves… That they maybe… Well I wouldn’t know…. No…
      Jensen: Now look, look… Well.., at this moment… From this moment on… This story… And I’ve discussed it extensively with Natalees mother… From now on some people… And that’s just my feeling… Pull up a wall in front of you all… And now we don’t get any closer… Because you say… In fact it’s very simple… You say: I was dropped of there… We had a little sex then… Then I made a phonecall to get picked up again… You say: The guy came in… You stepped in the car… He dropped you of at home… That’s it!!! If that would have been the story Joran, then it would have been so simple… But these two brothers say: ….
      Joran: Yes… I can’t uh…
      Jensen: They’re FRIENDS of yours… Why would they say they didn’t do that?
      Joran: Yes… I don’t know… Maybe if I would be dropped of at home… He’s there alone with a car… And then I wouldn’t be a suspect anymore… Only they… I don’t know… because if he admits he dropped me off at home…Then uh… But yes… I can’t prove it…
      Jensen: But when you were at home you spoke to them or something like that…. You sms-ed.
      Joran: No, no, no… On the computer via Msm we had a chat… With Deepak.
      Jensen: You chatted.
      Joran: Yes, yes…

    10. Brie on June 9th, 2007 5:52 am

      Hey swamp thing….#7..It is none of your damn business as to personnel investments of Jug… implying..the trip to Aruba sealed her fate the moment she got off the plane…why did Jug’s and Beth’s divorce happen so fast…that is none of your damn business..we where asked to leave them alone…in case you can’t read.

      There is nothing wrong with a hotel with hidden cameras, it’s called security.

      Natalee, a borderline alcholic, I don’t think so, Natalee A.D.D or compulsive disorder, I don’t think obsession for the wizard of of oz, I don’t think so,that had nothing to do Natalee, look at Rudy Croes.

      So we shift the blame to Geoff, Michael and Guildo. Sorry, it’s Joran. It has been Joran from the beginning and Paulus knows, why did he need to go to the ATM machine at 4 in the morning. Van der Straten said, I can not let this happen to my friend’s son.

      You have degraded Natalee and attacked her family…your ugliness is not welcome here…how many times does it take to get your ass off of here. Give the money back you were paid to harass!!!!!!!!!!

    11. Brie on June 9th, 2007 6:12 am

      Accusations against Natalee, an effort to disgrade, this is Julia and Anita.

      I feel that Aruba has had enough and hold Joran and his family responsible for the disapperance of Natalee

      You need to remove yourself from this site and give the money back you paid to harass.

    12. Brie on June 9th, 2007 6:22 am


    13. Robert on June 9th, 2007 6:57 am

      Part III Jensen – JvdSloot

      Jensen: What did you chat about?
      Joran: Yes not uh… Well in fact not very much then… Just uh… That were just a few sentences… when we spoke to eachother… But what I tried to say earlier is that during the police investigation… The police themselves don’t even believe I recently heard, we were at the beach at all, or whatever… And then you talk about those stories… don’t match… And yes, why should they say they dropped me of at the beach… And not picking me up… Well… In the end I believe that it doesn’t make a difference because I can prove that it….
      Jensen: It does make a difference because you pull up a wall… There is something between you… Else these two… And I use simple logic, intuition, animal feeling… A combination of all that… Because it’s so simple…. This story… If nothing would have happened… Or if nothing…. Than it’s simple to say: Yes, I was picked up, dropped of at home, that’s it… See you later… Bye…
      Joran: Yes, but that wasn’t that simple that moment because we had lied before that… And uh… Yes….
      Jensen: But we don’t talk about your lies to the police…. We talk about what has happened!
      Joran: Yes… No… Yes then it would be simple, yes… If they just would have said that they dropped me of at home… Yes… yes…
      Jensen: Yes, but Joran…You must get CRAZY… Because of your two friends… That they would lie about how you got home? Then you should get CRAZY now…
      Joran: That’s right…
      Jensen: But you must have talked to them since then some twenty times?
      Joran: After that I have never talked to them… Not ones…
      Jensen: But they were FRIENDS of yours…
      Joran: Yes they were…. Yes… They were friends of mine…. Uhmyeah…
      Jensen: Well at least that’s what I think… If you call people… And the car comes and picks you up… Some sort of taxiservice?
      Joran: Yes, they were friends of mine…
      Jensen: And you have…, after that.., you’ve never spoken to them again?
      Joran: No…
      Jensen: Yes… But I don’t understand that… You do want to know why they lie!!!???
      Joran: Yes, but I wouldn’t know what I would do to them if I would speak to them again… I find that… Myselves… I don’t know how I would react…
      Jensen: Well, then you would be agressive… And you take someone with you who can hold you back…? (LOL)
      Joran: Well not perse that but…. I either don’t know what sense that would make…
      Joran: (Can’t hear.)
      Jensen: You are worldwide… the mainsuspect in a story… rightlly or not rightly… but that has become SO BIG… And this is what it’s all about…: Beach… >>> Getting Home…. !!!
      Joran: Well… I, I, I, I…
      Jensen: The confusion!!! The confusion!!! It’s all about this girl who wasn’t found again… Nobody knows what’s happened to that girl… But Beach… >>> Coming Home… That’s mysterious… That’s strange… There are people that throw up smoke screens, put up walls, … Friends of yours lie… Are supposed to lie… You stick to that story???!!! I, I, I… Look… This makes me… I get… Here’s an element that is simply unclear… and says that something is REALLY not right!!!
      Joran: Yes… I can understand you saying that but… I don’t have… further…
      Jensen: Okay… Let’s get back… These guys are on Aruba now, are they not?
      Joran: They’re both at Aruba… One has a job… and one still goes to school…
      Jensen: And that one… He works in… What kind of business was that again?
      Joran: Uhm… An internet-cafe.
      Jensen: An internet-cafe. Today he’s there… working again?
      Joran: Today he’s working there I think…
      Jensen: Well maybe he’s sleeping…. that could be the case of course… (LOL) But he works there… You could go there and tell him: What the hell are you doing to me!? For two years now… I’m the mainsuspect in a case… because you don’t want…. You know that you picked me up there???!!! And you dropped me of at home… (Thought it was Satish…)
      Joran: We were confronted with this and eachother about this…. Put together in a buss… that took us to prison… to see how we would react… And then it came out already… and then I said I’ll hit you in the face with my handcuffs on… The police recorded that all… The just tried to put us together I think, to see what we would do to eachother… I have spoken to them then… And I don’t want to do that anymore… I’ve had enough of that…
      Jensen: Have you asked: Why do you lie about this?
      Joran: Yes, I’ve said that and then they kept quiet in the buss… They didn’t say anything… I threatend to hit them… Because I was angry then, of course… Yes…
      Jensen: So you talked to them then?
      Joran: Yes, then we were still in uh prison… We were still in…
      Jensen: Joran… Okay… But then in your head you’ve wondered twentythousand times: Why does he lie about this?
      Joran: Yes, of course…
      Jensen: And what’s your theory?
      Joran: Yes, I’ve thought about that a lot… I do have more theories about that… Maybe he doesn’t want to put suspicion on himself… And that yes.., is uh… one of the theories… Or he himself has something to do with it…
      Jensen: But why does he want to put himself… When it was as simple as you drew it here… that you were picked up…, dropped of at home… Why should he be afraid to put suspicion on him?
      Joran: Yes, I don’t know. I realy don’t know that…
      Jensen: I uh, I… I can only look at this the fact that a friend of mine… did something very simple..: picked me up at the beach and lied about that… And I am… In the US I am imaged as O.J. Simpson.., Charles Manson-like..,

    14. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 7:52 am


      Joran: Yes… I can’t uh…
      Jensen: They’re FRIENDS of yours…
      Why would they say they didn’t do that?
      Joran: Yes… I don’t know… Maybe if I
      would be dropped of at home… He’s there
      alone with a car… And then I wouldn’t be
      a suspect anymore… Only they… I don’t
      know… because if he admits he dropped
      me off at home…Then uh… But yes…
      I can’t prove it… Jensen: But when you were at home you spoke to them or something like that…. You sms-ed.
      Joran: No, no, no… On the computer
      via Msm we had a chat… With Deepak.
      Jensen: You chatted.
      Joran: Yes, yes…

      Comment by Robert | June 9, 2007, 5:29 am

      — Thanks Robert!!!


    15. sharon on June 9th, 2007 7:55 am

      Robert! Thank you. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

      Interesting….in Robert’s post #9….Joran says about the beach…

      “Umm, they dropeed ME off there, yes.”

      Hmmmm – where was Natalee, Joran? Slip of the tongue??

    16. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 8:06 am

      *** Joran: No, no, no… On the computer
      via Msm >WE had a chat… WITH DEEPAK.
      J-FIZZLE says *WE*

      Who da ef is WE?

      Does he carry
      around a frog
      in his pocket?



    17. Miss-Underestimated on June 9th, 2007 9:13 am

      Carpe LOL

      Frog no, a renfrog

    18. evilive on June 9th, 2007 9:15 am

      #10 Brie: closed minds do not solve cases. Every avenue must be investigated.
      Look to the Mansur family for answers and I would advise you to not be so emotionally involved with your postings.
      It clouds one’s thinking processess.
      Anyway I have said my piece. I think before I have said that I don’t shoot from the hip.
      It puts holes in your feet and then you can’t walk on water.
      Besides I didn’t do anything here that the moderators objected to; otherwise my posting would have been deleted.
      Try to keep an open mind. Apparently you have never had to be in any type of formal investigation.
      And it is not “Swamp Thing”. I too would like to get to the bottom of Natalee’s disappearance. Have you formulated any hypothesis or are you here to merely critize others’ opinions?

    19. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 9:19 am

      #8 …Janet, excellent summation. Thank you for your tireless efforts to boldly speak Natalee’s precious truths!

      Dompig couldn’t pick up the phone, because Dompig can’t seem to string together a sentence of truth, when it comes to what Natlaee’s picture truly has to say to the likes of a man – who would falsely accuse a brutally victimized little girl of “possession of drugs”.

      Dompig can’t pick up the phone because Dompig can’t seem to spit out the words that Boeti – his star lying “witness” – is none other than his brother in law, who seems to have a price for his lies that he likes to tell about little Natalee, the child who was ganged up on by a bunch of savages eager to rape a defenseless little girl.

      That wouldn’t play well to the potential tourists, so…Dompig sold his soul with the party line that figured: “better to make her a drug user”, right ?
      Who came up with that sack of evil, Dompig?

      It just doesn’t seem like something you would choose to invent as these twisted liars ride off the horrific suffering and victimization of this poor child who was beaten, drugged, raped, and God only knows what else was done to her.

      Why would you participate in such savagery, Dompig?

      Dompig can’t pick up the phone because after all, he’s busy “holding breaths”.

      “Holding breaths” still, Dompig?

      You know, Dompig, there are some who believe that the Spirit of Wisdom comes on the wings of a breath.

      Did you know that, Dompig?

      Maybe you shouldn’t be holding your breath, Dompig.
      Maybe you should look for the breath of Wisdom, to be breathed opon you,…
      A breath of wisdom, that will lead you to cleanse your conscience, and maybe then… you’ll be able to make that phone call, and tell what really happened to Natalee Holloway.

      Is your son holding his breath too, Dompig?

      Maybe when YOU begin to breath, maybe so too will Michael.
      Maybe when you release the breath of wisdom, Dompig – your son will be set free.
      Otherwise, you are both caged animals, holding your breaths, never living, never breathing…always looking over your shoulder.
      Is that what you want for Micheal, Dompig?
      Do you what Micheal to hold his breaths for the rest of his life?

      I suppose that defending Natalee is the unpopular cause on the island, eh Dompig?

      But, you will never escape your responsibility for the results of your denial of this child’s truth!
      Nor can you escape the responsibility for the results of your denial of her right to justice!

      “We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason if we dig deep in our history and doctrine and remember that we are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes which were for the moment unpopular. We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of the Republic to abdicate his responsibility.”

      Breathe on Michael, Dompig.
      Breathe for Micheal…

      “All I can hope to teach my son is to tell the truth and fear no man.” (E.R.Murrow)

      What did Michael learn from you, Dompig?
      What did he learn from you, today?
      What will his lessons be for the future, Dompig?

      Breathe for your son, Michael, Dompig – if you cannot find it in your heart to breathe for this precious child named Natalee.

    20. evilive on June 9th, 2007 9:24 am

      Brie: Remember when Beth first arrived, even before she knew about Joran…
      Her first posters said kidnapped.. Later changed to missing.
      Can you explain?

    21. sparrow on June 9th, 2007 9:31 am

      “or he himself has something to do with it”—-deepak, I have said many times, joran will walk free, because you will spend the rest of your life in prison for the murder of Natalee Holloway. joran and paulass have the money, and power to see to it that you are the one, deepak, to be convicted of the murder of Natalee Holloway. deepak, the stupid one. joran and paulass will see to it that deepak, the stupid, will spend the rest of his life, on this earth, in prison. deepak will die in prison for the murder of Natalee Holloway. deepak, your fate is sealed, joran is telling the world he is innocent, and you are the murderer. You’re a fool deepak. joran makes a fool of you, deepak. deepak, the stupid one. deepak the murderer.

    22. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 9:51 am

      Go Jensen, it’s yer birthday.

      Jensen Interview:


      Joran: (Can’t hear.)
      Jensen: You are worldwide… the main suspect in a story… rightly or not rightly… but that has become SO BIG… And this is what it’s all about…: Beach… >>> Getting Home…. !!!
      Joran: Well… I, I, I, I…
      Jensen: The confusion!!! The confusion!!! It’s all about this girl who wasn’t found again… Nobody knows what’s happened to that girl…


      Joran: I I I I I I…

      …Yo J. get Anita to fall on the ice

      and sit her big a$$ on your head again!

      Your internal CD DRIVE in your brain keeps

      skipping. For those about to rock, we salute

      you… here is your new flag. -j4n

    23. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 10:09 am

      Sparrow, it is so true that Deepak and his brother were clueless when it came to seeing what Paulus had set into motion for them.

      He arranged for their attorneys, and they went along with it.

      Deepak even went to the meetings they all held together, before they were all arrested, where they had their plots ironed out, except – Deepak spilled the beans in jail, and that really got Paulus ticked off.

      After all: “THE FATHER … and all of them, they made up the lies together” … could only mean ONE THING, right Paulus?

      Except Deepak was too stupid to see that all Joran’s LIE-STATEMENTS were being erased, by his godfathers over at the ALE, meanwhile, ONLY DEEPAK AND SATISH’S LIE-STATEMENTS SURVIVED!!!!

      Isn’t it compelling, Sparrow that not only did the innocent black guards get framed, but – to expunge Paulus and Joran from all complicity in the premeditative criminal acts inflicted upon Natalee, THEY LEFT DEEPAK AND SATISH’s lie statements on record so that THEY COULD BE FRAMED FOR THEIR PREMEDITATIVE ACTS TO FALSELY ACCUSE MICKEY JOHN AND ABRAHAM JONES!

      The patterns are literally leaping from the case files along with Deepak’s belief that Joran didn’t know that they were all being taped in that polis car!

      Deepak, when you went for that little “meeting” over at the Noord station ( before heading over to the Holiday Inn to lie some more to Beth), maybe you should have taken a closer look THEN, as to what was really going down.

      Deepak, why do you think only YOUR statement and your BROTHER’S statement survived from your May 31 statemnts with JORAN? Who do you think erased JORAN’S STATMENTS, DEEPAK? WAS IT THE SAME PERSON WHO ERASED NATALEE?

      Your biggest problem isn’t THE TAPE, Deepak.

      Deepak, what happened to your lamp?
      Did the light go out for you, Deepak?

      Didn’t you see how Paulus was framing you?
      And Joran still wants to implicate YOUR LITTLE BROTHER.

      Hey Deepak, Joran says that if you didn’t pick him up, then it would mean that YOU DID SOMETHING TO NATALEE.

      Is that the way it ends, Deepak?

      Or is it that if YOU didn’t pick up Joran, then it means that premeditative PAULUS the ORCHESTRATOR OF LIES picked up his son, at 4 AM, which means – he LIED TO BETH, LIED TO POLIS, LIED ABOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE OF NATALEE… is that the what it means, Lamp?

      You tell us, Deepak.
      You’re the BIG LAMP LIGHT here.
      What does it mean if YOU DIDN’T PICK UP JORAN?

    24. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 10:12 am


      I think it was because that turbo charged
      cunning stunt, Julia “The Beer Maid” Renfro
      had her panties all in a bunch…

      and wanted to play B.H.O.C. (big hoe on campus)

      Driving people all over Aruba,

      and to Egypt and back!

      Forgive me , but:

      … I wish Jug did clothesline that b4tch!

      She is a disease.

      21st Century Benedict Arnold / Julia Renfro

      eat it. -j4n

    25. Robert on June 9th, 2007 10:37 am

      Next part Jensen – JvdSloot

      Then I wouldn’t be satisfied with a confrontation in a van, once…
      Joran: Well, there are other… Well yes, I don’t really want to talk to them again. That is really…
      Jensen: But Joran, you do have a… Three years ago… Or two years… How long has it been now… Two years…
      Joran: Yes, two years ago…
      Jensen: Well, how I would have experienced it… Like hell… you’ve experienced hell for two years…
      Joran: Well I’m stuck with that anyhow… If I speak to them or not… Uh… I’ve had that all…
      Jensen: But Joran… You are sure… The way you describe it… what happened that night… If it all happened that way… Then it’s because their statements that there still is a chaos.
      Joran: No, I don’t… Well I think that you put somewhat to much emphasis on this… Because…Yes… I just think in this case… As you look at it… And you see that by me as well and others there’s been lied… Yes… Then you cannot anylonger… Yes, I understand that you then can’t relie anylonger on what somebody says… but… Then you in my opinion, just have to look at the facts… And I think that when you realy look into the facts in this case… So not just what a person says or thinks… and speculates… but into the facts.., that these free me of any guilt… And yes… That should…
      Jensen: But you say, you are all in some sort of web of lies… and you can’t get out of that?
      Joran: Yes… That’s what I wanted the say before… You are never heard by the police in a murdercase. And what the police do to you isn’t that normal either… You were interrogated for tens of hours continiously, especially in the beginning… By many different detectives… They came over from Holland… From Aruba… And they lie to you all the time. They tell you that the other guys have told them you did the bad things… And… You name it..
      Jensen: They trie to frame you. I’m eager to believe that.
      Joran: But then it realy happens that you say something bad about one of the others… because they say something bad about you… And that is how it starts off… That was how it was…
      Jensen: And then you start reacting…
      Joran: And so they put you up to one another…
      Jensen: But still Joran… Where do I go wrong???!!! If it was as simple as you’ve told me.
      Joran: It’s been that simple…
      Jensen: But how is it possible that it gets so out of control and become so chaotic and triggers even more lies and all that kind of stuff? Why, why, why, why!!!???
      Joran: Yes I think everything, all the lies, I’ve tried to explain in my book. And I hope the people can understand it. I don’t know if you’ve read it…
      Jensen: Yes I’ve read the book, I have read the book. Of course… And I know everything about this case… Everything! They could hire me as special prosecutor…
      Joran: Well let’s take for example my shoes… I’ve left my shoes there that night… On the beach… That sounds very suspicious… Yes… Why didn’t you just pick up your shoes and take them with you? That is something as well… that I have stated myself… to the police… that I left my shoes there… Why would you put more suspicion on you by telling the police that?
      Jensen: Well, on all these details we could do another show of about four months…. About these kinds of details… shoes, this, that… You know… these kinds of puzzlepieces… But what sticks to my mind is the bigger timeline. Nobody knows what’s happened after she was abandoned at the beach… You say you went home… And there are lies between you and your friends of which I don’t understand why their should be lied about that. That’s my point. I just present my point. Because you know what my feeling is? Just a feeling… Who am I…. … I don’t think you are a murderer… I realy don’t think that. I don’t think you did something. The Americans are confinced you did that but I don’t think that… But I do think Joran… I do have a very strong feeling and everybody whom I talk to agrees with me… And I have this feeling tonight as well… YOU KNOW SOMETHING… … …THAT YOU HAVEN’T TOLD YET.
      Joran: Yes I can understand that you have that feeling. But… Yes…. That… That is realy not the case… That is really, really not true… I’ve told everything I know. And I would wish that I knew, that I knew what happened. So I could tell it and everything would be over… I really would want that… I’m stuck with this every day. I don’t know it either. I feel sorry for what happened as well. As well for the family… And as well for her family… Many of the things they did I feel that shouldn’t have happened. The boycot of Aruba, these things… But yes… I would, I wouldn’t know what I should do when somebody I love would have been dissappeared and Joran was the last seen with that person… And it all sounded suspicious… I wouldn’t know what kinds of things I would do… I can understand that… But I really don’t know more then what I’ve told already…
      Jensen: It’s always that feeling that will be attached to you. Like: there is something more… That he doesn’t … In combination with that vague stuff that is going on between you and your friends. With that lying of them about what you… Get it? That combination… May I ask one more thing of you Joran? And after that… But… I read your book. Actually… There are a few things in it… Here… Your a quite intelligent guy I think… You do that quite good… Fine. As I read about details. Of that evening. When you saw Natalee. You know: (Reads a phrase of the book with a LOT of details in it about things Natalee says and does amongst which: gestures and othere small things.) Jensen: And this goes on for pages… The details are just perfect. The way you describe it… It is painted to the second what happens… But I find… Further along in the book, where it is about, you know, the chatting you did… And the sms you got from Deepak… There it reads… During the interrogation. We’re further in the book now: (Reads the mismatch of the sms/msn messages and Jorans statements at the buro; suddenly there’s a total lack of details and here Joran knows nothing anymore.) Jensen: You get it? I think you’re very intelligent in writing about the details first but here it gets so…. blurry!!!??? “I don’t know anymore why I had to thank him at 3 o’clock at night? Why should…
      Joran: But what do you think than, is blurry?
      Jensen: Because the whole night, and it’s a heavy night, you know… And I know for sure if you at that point are accused of a murder… everything should get very clear to you, what happened?
      Joran: No.
      Jensen: And the same goes for the evening that you describe in the C&C’s were you could remember the details. And suddenly you don’t know anymore why you had to thank Deepak.
      Joran: Well that’s not right. These details came out there because you are so heavily interrogated by the police… So many of these interrogations are used to write the book. And I think if I would ask you what you did two weeks ago at a thuesday, accept for being here, you wouldn’t know either. It wasn’t the day after that I was arrested of course. I think that if I’d sat here today and all this would have not happened, I wouldn’t even now who Natalee Holloway was. I maybe would have forgotten the whole night. So…
      Jensen: I don’t think so… I think you’re more intelligent than that… I think I would have remembered it. On such an… Because how many sms-es do you sent at a quarter past three on such a night?
      Joran: That night: two.
      Jensen: Two? And you don’t know anymore what they meant and why you sent them?
      Joran: The moment I was arrested I didn’t know that I’d sent two sms-es to Deepak two weeks before that.
      Jensen: But you don’t know either… that… “Hey, thanks Swa Good night… ” Do you remember what you chatted about online?
      Joran: Uh yes… That’s in the book as well and it can’t be doubted because I mean the police can get all that back from your telephone and your…
      Jensen: Well alright… I’ve said that’s it… But I don’t think that you really did something… But maybe that one of you… You know something more. I think that.
      Joran: I’m sorry I have to dissappoint you. I know nothing more about it…
      Jensen: Hmm, hmm… How is life now for you Joran? Because… I have a thing as well. If I had gone through what you’ve experienced… And what you are in… Yes, at a certain time I’ld think… Well God yes… Well indeed now I am the mainsuspect… But they don’t have anything on me… And I didn’t do it… I want… I am going to shave my head bold and going to live somewhere in Cambodja, for some three years and I’ll be back. I don’t want to have to do with anyone for a while…

    26. dave on June 9th, 2007 11:29 am

      Please do not feed the TROLL evilive let it starve.

    27. sparrow on June 9th, 2007 11:59 am

      deepak, your co hart joran can’t keep his mouth shut. Every time he runs his yap he implicates you, deepak, the stupid one. paulass has this all mapped out down to the last second. deepak, paulass has too much info on the powers that be in aruba. You know, yes you do. You know that your days are numbered. Slow as it maybe, you think about Natalee Holloway everyday. Everyday you are closer to rotting in a hell-hole of a prison, and joran will be free. By the way—– I think of you rotting in hell too.

    28. evilive on June 9th, 2007 12:02 pm

      26: Dave First I’m a swamp thing… I didn’t mind that too much. Emotions and all that.
      However I take extreme objection to being called a troll.
      Just because I don’t bury my head in the sand and don’t critize others and don’t go with the general concensus is that why now I am a troll?
      Believe me Dave you don’t know how far from the truth is your statement. I am far from it.
      Why not google some of the things I mentioned or are you afraid that what I said has some merit?
      Now my turn to critize. You do know how to google don’t you?

    29. Brie on June 9th, 2007 12:12 pm


      I know what happened and I will tell you someday!!!

      F…you bitch

      F…you Joran

    30. buckeye on June 9th, 2007 12:51 pm

      Thanks again for all your hard work!!

    31. sparrow on June 9th, 2007 12:52 pm

      joran says,”i know nothing more about it.” LIAR
      deepak, are you listening? joran is setting you up>> again.

    32. Waterboy (Jerry) on June 9th, 2007 1:16 pm

      To evilive and all monkeys,

      Remember, I said that the man behind the cover-up is not an American. He did use some Americans (he has used us all), but they did not know they were being used, and he definitely did not use Jug. Had Jug been able to turn loose like he wanted to, Natalee would have been found, pronto! When he let Paulus have it that night, he was only at ½ throttle. Had he gone full throttle, he would have had Paulus on the ground beating his face in, and pulling out chucks of his thinning hair, until he told where Natalee was. And then, Paulus has the audacity to say that Jug assaulted him, what a creep, after what happen to Natalee; and Paulus has full knowledge of what transpired the night Natalee disappeared. (Makes my blood boil).

      I would ask everyone to open their mind, and especially go back to the events at the landfill. Ask yourself who was working behind the scenes to stop the activities there. It won’t be too obvious, but if you dig you will begin to at least have some doubts. Numerous trails lead to the man I think is behind the cover-up. I think there are several who on their own destroyed evidence, hid evidence, and omitted evidence.

      I hope I’m wrong about the man. Really, I like him. I hope I’m wrong about Natalee being in the landfill, and I hope Tim finds her. He thinks he will. What makes me think she is not there is because the man that I feel is behind the cover-up is all for the water search. I hope I’m wrong.

      To say his name would mean being ostracized from this site. I hope you all understand. It’s like a policeman who says he has a suspect, but has no evidence. He could loose his job if he starts spouting out names.


    33. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 1:36 pm

      Good morning beautiful Brie.
      Good morning to you too, Dave.

      It seems that Joran got into his criminal problems because the polis asked him questions about Natalee, the missing child, who was never seen again, after being given something to drink and then taken away in a car by Joran, Deepak and Satish.

      Joran’s criminal problems are the ALE’s fault, or at least this is what it appears to be according to what Joran seems to be saying.

      And, it seems that Joran has no guilt because according to Joran, if we do not look at what he said, and do not look at what he did, but just “look at the facts” -
      Then … according to Joran, everyone will see that he has “no guilt” !!!

      The loathesome self-centerdness, and self absorption of a sociopath who would seek to crush a defenseless little girl, participate with other savages in ganging up on her, and brutally victimize her is absolutely revolting and repulsive.

      OK. This must mean that Joran, wants us to ignore all the lies he told, ignore all the obstructive acts he engaged in, and instead …look at what remains, after removing all the lies and all the obstructive acts he engaged in, after which, when all that is removed, then according to Joran, what is left is …well, what he identifies as the “facts”.

      Don’t look now, but Hammer is about to slam a big one loaded with FACTS for you, Joran. I’m sure there will be others as well. Maybe you should check with Janet for THE FACTS, Joran.

      JOran, how about we not use your twisted depravity version of “facts” – but THE TRUTH FACTS, NATALEE’S FACTS, NATALEE’S TRUTH?

      Joran: does this mean that we should or should not look at the fact that your lie-statements as a lie-witness are now missing from the May 30, May 31 statements that you gave? Should we or should we not look at your lie statements of 5/31 at 3 AM in the morning when you lied to Beth, lied to polis and then, proceeded to obstruct the investigation into finding Natalee with all your obstructive actions that you engaged in?

      Joran: does this mean that we should or should not look at the fact that you walked up to the Holiday Inn Lobby and pin-pointed the lobby entrance as your “drop off location”, which supported your father’s desire to keep Natalee hidden, so there would be “no case”?

      Joran: does this mean that we should or should not look at the fact that you said you invented the Holiday Inn Lies with Deepak, en route to the Holiday Inn ( after your little visit to the Noord polis station), where you then proceeded to lie to Beth and the FBI regarding exactly WHERE you claimed that you “dropped off” Natalee?

      Joran: Does this mean that we should or should not look at the facts surrounding any other means of COMMUNICATION that you engaged in, outside the use of your cell phone linked to your name?

      Joran: Does this mean that we should or should not look at the fact that there are other girls claiming that YOU DRUGGED AND RAPED THEM?

      Joran: About those “shoes” of which you claim that by speaking of them in one of your many lie-statements, you suggest that it would create more “suspicion” about you by speaking of “the shoes”, thereby claiming that “the shoes” therefore, must be a “fact” and “truth” – except, JORAN, should we or should we not look at the FACT, that “your shoes lie” was part of the LIE-REHEARSALS that you had for ten days before you were finally arrested, so that you could then claim later, that the mention of the “shoes” somehow now constitutes some kind of shallow “proof” that you were at “the beach” and not where you really were, which was – at THE HOUSE, which is THE FACT?

      Joran: About THE HOUSE and THE BEACH… Which is “fact”? Is the “fact” the LIE that you went to the beach or is the FACT the truth, that you WENT TO THE HOUSE?

      Joran: about Deepak’s confession in jail to Mickey John where your FATHER, Paulus of the DITCH is directly implicated in engaging in a PLOT to OBSTRUCT THE FACTS, OBSTRUCT THE TRUTH, OBSTRUCT ANY INVESTIGATION INTO WHAT YOU DID TO NATALEE WITH THE PLOTTED LIES YOU ALL PLANNED TOGETHER TO TELL POLIS …would those be FACTS we should look at, or would those be very inconvenient FACTS that you don’t want us to look at?

      Joran: about those conversations you had with the FBI and what you stated that night? Are those facts or are those not the facts?

      Are they lies that are facts of your depraved indifference to Natalee, or are they lies of your version of “facts” that you rehearsed and told in order to obstruct Natalee’s parents from ever finding their baby?

    34. evilive on June 9th, 2007 1:38 pm

      Jerry: 32…
      That would have been Charles Croes or Van der Straaten.
      I’m already a swamp thing and a troll so he it goes. It was I believe one of the Mansur’s family.
      There I said it and I now will go back to look.

      That is the first time I have shot from the hip without verifying or at least getting the backup info.
      But I’m tired of the BS, criticism and being called a troll. Apparently keeping the mind closed resolves issues and solves cases. In that case a person can never learn.
      As I have said. No one from this board will ever find out where Natalee is or fully what happened. But most are blind to Joran’ constant constant lies. Why doen’t he just tell the truth? By the way any luck translating the rest of his book?

    35. wreck on June 9th, 2007 1:45 pm

      Well wb(j), you might as well come out and say his name (there’s only ONE person anyone here LIKES in Aruba — so it is obvious who you are referring to!)

      I just don’t buy it because THAT person is absolutely despised by the very people who ARE responsible for the cover-up — namely AHATA, the Aruban Government, and MEP.

    36. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 1:53 pm

      Is he Lebanese?

    37. Robert on June 9th, 2007 2:13 pm

      Last piece of Jensen – JvdSloot.

      I would certainly not write a book. Why did you write it instead?
      Joran: Uhmmm. Well, why I wrote the book… It was self… To cope with it and to let go of it… Because of course it is a LOT that has happened. And what all happened after it… So to be able to cope with it. I myself have not ever had the feeling I had to defend myself… or something… Because I know that everyone that loves me know that I would never do something like that.
      Jensen: Well I think it’s very impressive of you… That you… That you can do that… With that enormous pressure that globalwide has been put on you… That you still think I’ll just go on with building up my life.
      Joran: Hm… Yes… But… Uhm.. Yes… Imagine that you’re me and you hadn’t done it (the crime). And all this comes over you… At a given moment you come… in a… in a… that it makes no difference anymore… what happens…
      Jensen: Is that… Is that… how you were drawn in… A sort of whirlpool to which you give in?
      Joran: Yes… You are… You don’t have any controle over it, so… Yes…
      Jensen: So then you just do it… But is it a fun life you live now? Because it’s strange… When you’re in a bar you are the “Joran van der Sloot”.
      Joran: I don’t know if that’s okay. I think I’ld rather hadn’t have it. But… yes… Everything has it’s advantages…
      Jensen: What’s the advantage?
      Joran: Well yes… What you just mentioned yourself… I mean… People sometimes want to get in a conversation with you sooner… Or…
      Jensen: And you think that’s
      Joran/Jensen: (Can’t hear.)
      Joran: Some people think it’s interesting. I don’t know why but… It’s like that…
      Jensen: And you think that’s okay… You don’t mind that too much?
      Joran: No, I don’t mind that, no.
      Jensen: Well maybe you should… well… have your personality or your character to be able to keep standing under these circumstances. You are fighting… You like it to fight the people that come on to you with all these things? Don’t you?
      Joran: Mwuhaa… I don’t know excactly what you mean?
      Jensen: Well, there’s so much that comes to you… Accusations and all these kinds of things… And then you don’t have something like… getting away from it… But then you go for the fight…
      Joran: Yes, but it are only accusations… In this case… it hasn’t even been proved that a crime has been committed… And people come up with all these theories… And such stuff… Well… (Shakes head.)
      Jensen: Do you really say that this whole case is a blown up thing…
      Joran: No, I, I don’t know. I hope it gets solved one day. But indeed there are many things in this case that are very, very strange. Yes, I realy hope… Yes, I realy hope that one day this case will be solved.
      Jensen: And you think it’s strange your friends handeld?
      Joran: Yes.., yes… That’s…
      Jensen: Did it ever crossed your mind that they were involved in this?
      Joran: Yes, of course. I thought a lot… I thought about that as well yes. But this… What I tried to… You constantly go back to that piece but they say I walked home. That’s what they say. That I walked home…
      Jensen: Hmmm.
      Joran: Uhhmm… I say they picked me up… Which was the way it happened. But… even if I had walked home what would be the difference? If I.. then… We sat before the judge and the judge said you contradict eachother… And even before the judge I said: Well if you want it I’ll say I’ve walked home… Even if that was not what happened. But I want to go home to… I mean… But then the judge said: No, that’s not what we want. You have to tell the truth.
      Jensen: Jezus… Hey… And, and, and what do you think HAS happened?
      Joran: I don’t think she’s alive anymore… I don’t have trust in that anymore. But I can’t imagine she’s somewhere on Aruba.
      Jensen: No, I don’t think that either.
      Joran: No I think… Aruba was so thoroughly investigated… Jetfighters and… You name it… Everything has been done…
      Jensen: Could it be that she went for a swim and drowned and… Or do you wash up then do you think?
      Joran: Yes I thank you wash up then, I think you wash up… yes. I, I, I really wouldn’t know… But the only thing that I can say in my defence in what people should believe me: that time, that evening I was home… I went to school the next day. Well, I just went on with my life in a normal manner. I don’t think that if you’d done something to somebody you could go on with your life in a normal way. I don’t think that…
      Jensen: Some people would be able to do that!? I believe that.
      Joran: Well… I don’t believe that… I can’t imagine that uhh… if you’d done something bad to someone… you could still….
      Jensen: Yes… It’s unfortunate that those friends didn’t back up your story than else you wouldn’t be a suspect any longer? Don’t you think so?
      Joran: Well… I think yes… still… I think that… that…
      Jensen: Untill they’ve found a solution… Untill they’ve found something…
      Joran: … that I will stay a suspect.
      Jensen: You don’t think that this will haunt you for the rest of your life? And uh…
      Joran: Yes indeed… And…
      Jensen: You don’t mind that?
      Joran: Yes, I think thats a petty too. Hmyaeh. But it’s as you said before. It’s just like this and you have to make… take the best of it. That’s the only thing you can do!
      Jensen: Will you be remain in Holland or will you…
      Joran: Uuuhhmmm. Well I myself never wanted to come to Holland. Actualy I wanted to go to university in the US for which I had a scollarship…
      Jensen: Hmm… That doesn’t seem like a good idea to me (LOL) Under these circumstances go to the US…
      Joran: So… Yes now I’m at school over here and I hope to finish my education over here.
      Jensen: Well Joran. I think it was great to have spoken to you. And was it a bit OK for yourself as well?
      Joran: I uhh…
      Jensen: Were you able to say what you want?
      Joran: I was able to say what I wanted yes.
      Jensen: If you could say one more thing… Say one more thing about yourself… From within yourself… What would you say?
      Joran: Uuhhmm…
      Jensen: Cause you know…
      Joran: Yes. Just that this case will be solved once… And so everyone who had to suffer because of this… Everybody may now what happened and get peace in their lifes… That’s what I really hope…
      Jensen: Because many lifes were disturbed because of this incident… that one night… at Aruba.
      Joran: Yea…
      Jensen: Really… It’s amazing what a domino effect this has had. Joran… It was great to have you on the show… Ladies and gentlemen… Joran vd Sloot.

      (I still think this Joran is scum and has to come up with the truth. And when he won’t do that, justice will!!)

    38. evilive on June 9th, 2007 2:38 pm

      35 wreck…Come on guys say it just say it say it say it!!!!!!!
      J o s s y M a n s u r
      nothing moves on Aruba unless it goes through the Mansur family.
      It doesn’t like Oduber because Oduber sued him and won.
      He does not like the Dutch for what happened. He was chastised or something. I can’t right know recall the specifics.
      Ah here we are:::Jossy Mehren Mansur is the Papiamento-speaking editor of Diario, a newspaper in Aruba. Mansur is known for his weekly editorials which are often critical of the local government. In 1999 Mansur sued the Netherlands government before the United Nations Human Rights Committee for disseminating what the Aruban government termed a top secret report that falsely claimed that Mansur was involved in organized crime. The suit was dismissed on procedural grounds for failure to exhaust Mansur’s civil remedies in the Netherlands courts.
      Trolling is what fisherman do…I just try to get the facts. Sorry if you don’t like it.


      SM:   I would like to go on record as saying I believe you are WRONG about Jossy’s involvement in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.   (klaasend)

    39. wreck on June 9th, 2007 2:55 pm

      You make my point! If Jossy was behind the COVERUP — he would have been exposed right from the start!!!! Jossy indeed has power and EVERY other person w/ power absolutely HATES him. There is no way Jossy could pull off a coverup without Oduber,Croes, AHATA, MEP, and the ALE covering for him as well!!!!!!!! They would have crucified him!

    40. Roy on June 9th, 2007 2:58 pm


    41. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 3:18 pm

      Yeah i’m going on the record too saying you are FOS.

      All this BS came out ONLY AFTER Jipshit’s and Paulus’s lies fell apart and the trashing of Natalee DID NOT work.

    42. Roy on June 9th, 2007 3:34 pm

      Evil: We all take diff’t tacts, some are better than others. FWIW, your name is not mud…I appreciate your posts. I don’t post here much anymore because of the extreme emotions but I still try to read here everyday. Especially to catch up on the thoughts of Waterboy and 1906. I’m as curious as the next…but those two don’t tend to get ahead of themselves like others… me….but that doesn’t make you mud or especially a troll.
      I think WB is right….Jug’s hands were tied in many ways… maybe even due to some of those associations you allude to…. but realistically speaking, I think it’s a safe bet to say he would have ripped some heads apart iffn unleashed. Secrecy in those regards (associations) may hamper our efforts as our curiosity about those matters tend to peak our search for motive.
      Waterboy: I agree about being led to the water….and I understand why….as for the rest…I trust your instincts and concur. That is, if I’m reading you right…..I’ll wait.
      I love your persistence and faith.

    43. wreck on June 9th, 2007 3:56 pm

      Went to FOB — It’s the exact same people that were fawning over Joran 2 years ago. Problem is there were only 7-8 people total with that view then — and there are STILL only 7-8 people with that view now!

    44. evilive on June 9th, 2007 4:02 pm

      Hey I did not bring up the subject about Jossy.
      Waterboy was right. Just mention his name and beat me up; go ahead……….
      And U2 SM .
      It is really interesting to see who here have preconceived notions and don’t bother doing any of the work to find out.
      OK I’m off for a while and trying to build a better case for you unbelievers. And I don’t mean Jossy. I don’t think I would have picked him either.
      But then again what about Renfro, Charles Croes etc. They befriended the Hollways/Twittys… Look what they turned into. What organization lost millions of dollars on Aruba???

    45. gutfeeling on June 9th, 2007 4:31 pm

      Easywriter wrote:
      “That is the sickest thing about this tragedy. Parents knowing what became of Natalee and letting other parents just keep searching. There has to be a special place for people that cold and self-serving.”

      Joran can write all the books he wants and he can go on every talk show that will have him, but he cannot refute that he and his family have done this, and a lower form of life does not exist.

    46. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 4:56 pm

      Good afternoon, Mayan Moons and beautiful Brie.
      Mayan, I’m glad you had a moment to smile the other day.

      Looks like the mule from that funny story, backed up into more than a couple of desks of those two crap-writers.

      But speaking of a load full…have either of you read this?

      “When you really look into the facts in this case…so not just what a person says or thinks…and speculates…but into THE FACTS…that these free me of any guilt.”
      Joran Van der Sloot

      Apparently, Mayan Moons and Brie, “the facts” as Joran sees them, excludes ALL HIS LIES ( what he says), and it must also exclude what HE THINKS ( that he “didn’t do IT”), and according to Joran, it seems that all the facts of evidence pointing towards him is just “speculation” because Joran states that: “They don’t have anything on me.”

      This is so interesting, because:

      KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Betty, a senior police official told us before midnight that one of three young men arrested Thursday had made a confession during interrogations to the killing of Natalee Holloway.

      Mayan Moons,and Brie, did you know that news outlets were being pressured to retract the information that had been reported to them, and they refused to do so!

      How should we file these JORAN-PAULUS FACTS?

      John: “He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy’s father, they sit and made up the story.”

      VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?

      JOHN: All of them. They made up…

      VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say – Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

      JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

      VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

      JOHN: Well, I don’t know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him. They made up the story, and they say that they didn’t drop the girl off, because they said they would give the police something to (INAUDIBLE) when somebody is missing in Aruba, they would find them a few days later by a crack house or with some beach bum or something.”

      Mayan Moons and Brie: these statements by Deepak seem to indicate that not only was Paulus busy making up lies for Joran, Deepak and Satish to tell polis concerning WHERE they PUT NATALEE, but apparently, Paulus was also thinking about “GIVING THE POLIS SOMETHING TO …. (inaudible) ….(USE?) – when somebody is missing in Aruba, they would find them days later by a crack house or with some beach bum or something.”

      Mayan Moons and Brie: does this seem to suggest that Paulus was orchestrating with Polis ” something to …(inaudible) when somebody ( like NATALEE ?) is missing in Aruba, they would find them a few days later by a crack house…”


      Imagine Mayan Moons and Brie, the kind of men who would propose these perverse “hopes” of finding Natalee to her suffering family, as were offered to Natalee’s family,(while the TRUTH of what had happened to her was already known by the corrupt individuals involved in the cover up) and then to USE the family’s helplessness while viciously assaulting THEIR TRUST in the ALE, in this situation (where they tried to have a medi-vac ready for Natalee, believing what had been “fed” to them), only to have the most barbaric minds in Aruba take their loving attempts and hopes of finding Natalee at the hands of “CRACK KIDNAPPERS HOLDING HER AGAINST HER WILL”- to then create another LIE: that she was “using drugs” and that THIS was why the medi-vac was being readied by the family.

      How does Dompig look at his own face in the mirror each day?

      The savagery of the corrupt individuals involved in the creation of these contemptuous lies is nothing less than barbaric and hideous.

      How is it Mayan Moons and Brie, that Joran can skate over involvement in this depraved conduct, and then sputter that the facts free him “of any guilt”?

      The perverted darkness cast by Joran and Paulus’ lies is an attempt to obliterate Natalee’s precious voice.



    47. Maggie on June 9th, 2007 4:58 pm

      2 years and counting..

      NOT 1 MB student or person has been arrested as a suspect in Natalee’s disappearance/murder.

      Not 1 of Jug’s associates or Jug has ever been arrested as a suspect in Natalee’s disappearance/murder.

      As for Jug & Beth’s divorce..none of our damn business..One can only imagine the strain on a family dealing with this, unless you yourself have dealt with it.

      All of Natalee’s family would meet with prosecutors, police, FBI, whatever it took to get answers to where Natalee’s remains are. They aren’t hiding from anyone.

      Joran only wants to meet with the ones who throw him softballs, that he thinks he can fool. Why don’t he talk to DeVries instead of hiding behind the curtains. Why not talk to police and prosecutors , FBI, why go to court to prevent FBI from this case. I really don’t think he has Jensen fooled, I think Jensen was trying to trip him up.

    48. Maggie on June 9th, 2007 5:15 pm

      Once again Joran paints himself the victim of a 110 pound girl, her friends, Deepak and Satish, Natalee’s family, the cops, the Americans. Once again he has Natalee inviting herself to go with them, after he told Greta Natalee asked him if he wanted her to go with him and he said yes. Now Natalee’s friends at Carlos n Charlies told him he had to go with Natalee, so he’s a victim of them too. Repeatedly he has Natalee doing crazy things like she’s drunk, then acting normal and saying she was normal. He can’t have her drunk and sober at the same time. He says he finds it difficult to talk bad about her? This reminds me of Anthony Perkins in pyscho. Just more contradictions and changing stories after reading blogs, police files, and people’s comments. I think we found the “One” in One flew over the cuckoo’s nest.

    49. Brie on June 9th, 2007 5:45 pm

      Good luck to Tim Miller, a man who has dedicated his life to those missing. God Bless him for his work. He may of found Natalee before now but didn’t have the co-operation from the ALE that he needed.

      He’s not giving up, he’s going back! And we’re with him all the way.

    50. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 5:50 pm

      Yes, Brie.

      Without men like Tim Miller, where would hope be generated?

      What a wonderful example of an extraordinary human being!

      God bless you on your journey, Tim.

      God bless you for your generosity and kindness to Natalee’s family.
      God bless you for your incredible compassionate heart.

      May hope for Natalee guide you.
      Thanks for the program, Dana!

    51. viet vet on June 9th, 2007 6:05 pm

      There is always doubt because of all the lies and cover-up tactics, but as to who was behind the cover-up besides Paulus and his friends,,make no mistake it was the Aruban Tourism Minister and his aides. ALE did whatever they were told or paid to do. We knew in the first few days that they (Dept of Tourism in Aruba) wanted the whole story to end and very quickly and very quitely. When they had their first news conference as soon as Dompig ended his update, the Tourism people said “No Questions”. Of course we (Jug’s friends) said Hell no, you can’t have a news conference and answer absolutely no questions. It caused a big yelling match which ended with a few questions being asked by the news media. Word spread fast about a cover-up larger than Watergate, 25 Jets bringing news crews showed up the next day. The ALE and Aruban government still will not talk about what they think(know) really happened. They know and the longer they keep it bottled up, the more damage it will do to their future…Boycott the SOB’s …till they talk.

    52. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 6:58 pm

      “Many of the things they did I feel that shouldn’t have happened. The boycot of Aruba, these things… But yes… I would, I wouldn’t know what I should do when somebody I love would have been dissappeared and Joran was the last seen with that person”

      Awww geez, Edith will ya huhhhh? Either he’s just

      had a psychotic break, or he thinks he’s FONZI!

      > He’s now referring to himself in the 3rd person???


    53. Brie on June 9th, 2007 7:08 pm

      Good Evening Pearl,

      I think Paulus was very deeply involved with the polis and the cover-up. Perhaps there are other missing persons, not necessarily from the US but other countries, that we do not know about and the crack house is used as a decoy. Why do they allow it anyway? Of course, why do they allow anything that goes on there. Aware of drink spiking, not a crime, underage, drinking, driving, gambling, kidnapping, murder, corruption, not a crime. It’s mere existance has become a crime.

    54. diverboy on June 9th, 2007 7:08 pm

      Ok…I think I got it. The reason Urine lied is cause he does it all the time, wow…who came up with this defense tactic? But to play along…he lied because he lies all the time. Ok, so the Aruban police are not too bright and buy into this b.s……now the story is that Kalpoes are liars too and they are the ones that have Urine in this mess? Well…seems that the Kalpoes had no problems with the first stories that Urine came up with, even had alibi from Steve Croes…but in his defense…he IS stupid, so doing stupid things is natural…no argument there. So, when the Kalpoes where lying for him…no problem…now that they say they are saying the truth, its a lie. And probably lying cause they have something to do with it? What a concept….So leaves us with who to believe…the liar or the other liars. But play the Kalpoes are lying cause they might have done something, according to Urine? I know you have read the transcripts, Deepak…what do you think? Is he now telling the truth? Remember where you rank on the food chain, loser.

    55. Brie on June 9th, 2007 7:09 pm

      Pearl, just want to say, Thank You for being here.

    56. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 7:14 pm

      ***Joran: Yes, of course… It is… They simply denie that I was picked up… And uh… that they have dropped me off at home (Translator: They?!
      Good catch, Robert.

    57. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:19 pm

      Hi viet vet, i wasn’t there but i think i can speak for most of us here that even watching Aruba Official’s/Spokesperson’s/Aruban Reporter’s from America you could see these people talking out of both sides of their mouths. Their feigned concern about Natalee was as transparent as saran wrap from day one and their own bizarre actions and statements made one think…..what are these people hiding?

    58. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:29 pm

      As Pearl points out…..the lies were bad enough but when i began to get the feeling that the family & their friends were being sent on wild goose chases, one right after another, the stalling, the forked tounge…..i got pissed.

      I wanted the boycott earlier but the family didn’t ask for it so if they could be patient, so could i. It was the best thing that we waited though, to give Aruba more rope and they’d hang themselves. AND THEY DID!

    59. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 7:30 pm

      Viet Vet, you make me proud to be an American in your willingness to step up to that line and cry out for Natalee’s right to be set free.

      You make me proud to be an American in your courageous voicing for freedom of the press and the right to question those in authority concerning information being fed to the public at the expense of the public’s right to be informed, and at the expense of protecting the public’s precious freedoms.

      You make me proud to be an American as you point so clearly to the patterns used by Aruba’s tourism authorities who appear to have used suspicious means to control “the message”, by attempting to deny the press the freedom of asking questions – questions which they hoped in turn would not reach the ears of potential tourists across the world. But they failed.

      And do you know why, Viet Vet?

      They failed because those brave news and photo journalists and various media personalities, who rooted themselves in integrity, refused to be sold the sack of lies purported as being “facts”.

      Men like Karl Penhaul, who painstakingly wrote of the details of Natalee’s painful story, in order to preserve Natalee’s truth, and men like Christopher Cuomo, who sought out a means to finding the answers to questions that continue to plague Natalee’s family and burden them with unimaginable suffering – should be commended.
      Women like Nancy Grace, Greta, Kimberle and others who took the time to place themselves in the right place at the right time, in order to investigate where Natalee’s truth lies – they are to be commended for their work.

      My hope is that they will continue to ask the questions that must be asked, and follow Natalee’s truth – wherever it may lead.

      There can be no integrity to reporting a story, unless those charged with communicating it, are dedicated in their intent to seek the truth contained in the story.

      A great journalist once said, when speaking of the power that lies within the search for truth in a story, that all journalists of any medium are called to:

      “This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires and lights in a box. There is a great and perhaps decisive battle to be fought against ignorance, intolerance and indifference.
      This weapon of (the media) could be useful.”

      Unless journalists persist in the pursuit of Natalee’s truth, unless they seek to uncover this child’s voice, they will fail in upholding the potential to inspire, illuminate and teach everyone, regarding the profound message that continues to be silenced by contemptable acts intended to obstruct the voice of Natalee, and her truth in her painful story. There are great lessons for all of us to learn from her, that concern our freedom, our right to know the truth and be informed, and our right to defend and protect our children and honor their human rights.
      Natalee continues to be held as a hostage to Aruba’s contemptable predators, where an entire nation continues to sanction violations of her human rights amidst unconscienable acts of corruption to prevent the malice that was inflicted upon Natalee from reaching the ears of potential tourists to Aruba’s economy. That is barbaric and inhumane, as it concerns the containment of her body from her loving family, who to this day continue to be denied their beloved child’s remains. Such barbaric acts of savagery have everything to do with our liberties and freedoms, the public’s right to know this child’s truth, and upon HER TRUTH, DEFEND AND PROTECT OTHER CHILDREN AT RISK OF THE SAME SAVAGERY OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN ARUBA.

      In a recent message by George Bush, our president spoke these words in a message about FREEDOM.

      In my heart I do believe there can be no mistake that these words apply to our fellow American,Natalee Holloway, a child with no ability to defend herself against the predators who robbed her of her human rights and stripped her of her freedom:

      “Freedom is the design of our Maker, and the longing of every soul. Freedom is the best way to unleash the creativity and economic potential of a nation. Freedom is the only ordering of a society that leads to justice. And human freedom is the only way to achieve human rights.”

      Natalee Holloway was robbed of her freedom, robbed of her human rights, and cast aside in a contemptable depraved display of disregard for her human dignity.

      In the words of Condoleeza Rice, when referencing the words of our president, said: “Human dignity is not negotiable.”

      You make me proud to be an American, Viet Vet, because you remind me, that Natalee’s rights to human dignity, her freedom, her right to come home … is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

      Thank you, Viet Vet for your love for Natalee, for being a faithful friend to Natalee, for your love and dedication to Natalee’s right to be set free, and the painstaking efforts you contine to make in honoring her right to be released from this unlawful containment of her precious body, and come home to her loving, courageous family where she can be buried with dignity – as is a final right that this child deserves to have honored.

    60. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:33 pm

      LOL CARPE! #52

    61. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 7:34 pm


      Don’t Be Hatin’ on

      the Joss-inator! He’s one of the

      few things good on that island!

      Otherwise, I’d suggest we level the island flat…

      and convert it in to a Sam’s Club.

      Here me now, believe me late–uhhh…

      The people responsible for Natalee’s death,

      are the gangraping murdering Van der sloots & Kalpoes

      of ARUBA.

      It was discovered within the first crucial 72 hours

      of Natalee’s family landing on the island. Nothing has

      changed, it stills tracks back to them to this very minute.

      Try as they might, these SUPERSIZED UNI-DILDOS have

      never been able to scrape off their shoes,

      from the wicked @$$ poop piles in which they

      stepped. -j4n boycott ‘em til they drop.

    62. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:37 pm

      hahaha diverboy crazy ain’t it!

    63. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:39 pm

      Joe Taco “my client only lied 3 times”

    64. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 7:41 pm

      Hold steadfast to hope, Brie.

      I am following your wisdom, learning to dance by jumping over, going under, around and THROUGH!!!

      But the truth is, that precious Natalee provides the beat by which we will all rise up and DANCE the steps of HER TRUTH!

      Keep dancing, Brie…

      DANCE with the joy of Natalee’s spirit to guide you!

      Dance with the presence of Natalee’s spirit crying out for her truth to be spoken!

      Dance with the wisdom that only her truth and her justice can provide through this painful journey.

      Dance, Brie!

      DANCE in Natalee’s truth!!!

    65. Pearl on June 9th, 2007 7:42 pm

      #63 – Mayan… did Joe Taco ever take math?

    66. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:51 pm

      LOL PEARL!~

    67. mayan_moons on June 9th, 2007 7:59 pm

      HAHAHA The Joss-INATOR!


      He’s what keeps Aruba afloat!

    68. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 8:10 pm

      Joe Yo Taco-muffintop’s Advanced Math Course

      Problem # 1

      6 added to 6 equals

      9 FOR “Vinnie The Hook”, 2 for me, and you can keep one,
      don’t spend it all in one place, ya hoser.

      You’re a radio-active toxic waste dump, Joe. A petty,
      money grasping, ambulance chaser without a soul.

      …but other than that, hey man enjoy your weekend!

    69. Brie on June 9th, 2007 9:00 pm

      Carpe, I love your sense of humor. You are ever so clever and you make us chuckle. Sometimes even laugh out loud!!!

    70. kayjay on June 9th, 2007 10:37 pm

      Does anyone know if there is any truth to something I read somewhere (sorry not to be more specific, but there is as we know so much info, around) ..anyway what I am wondering is did DeePak Kilpoe have a previous criminal record dating back to when he lived in Surinan (sp?).
      Another comment which has stuck in my mind from the beginning of the case was that almost immediately Natalee went missing JVDS had told his father “that something bad happened”, from then on I was convinced he was responsible for Natalee’s disappearance and remain so to this day.
      Reading the interview with Jansen, he remains in my opinion, as good a liar as ever.
      Does anyone know if the Dutch are still on the island?
      JQK had said on one of the shows about a week ago that he thought they would have to act by June 9th if they were going to proceed with prosecution. Not sure where he got that date from, but of course its today!!

    71. Janet on June 9th, 2007 10:51 pm

      70. kayjay
      June 1, 2007

      That reasonable term starts the moment a suspect can reasonably assume that he will be prosecuted. This is not laid down in a specific rule, but the beginning of the reasonable term can be when the suspect is taken into custody, or when an inquest is opened against the suspect.

      “Both possibilities occurred in this criminal case”, said the OM. Van der Sloot was taken into custody on June 9th, 2006. The investigation and the hearing against him would have basically been concluded on this date. But according to the OM , there are circumstances that may prolong criminal cases with more than two years, ‘without being able to say that the duration is unreasonably long”. Circumstances are the complexity of the case, the influence of the suspect and/or his lawyer on the progress of the process and the way the case is handled by the authorized authorities.

    72. sparrow on June 9th, 2007 10:56 pm

      Pearl, I wish I could express myself the way you do. Your words are beautiful.

      That’s a good question you asked deepak. What does it mean if deepak didn’t pickup joran? The answer from deepak will always be a lie. The answer from joran will always be a lie. The cowards are killers and liars. deepak, the stupid one, is caught, for no matter which way he turns, joran will blame him for the murder of Natalee. deepak is guilty, and so are joran, and paulass. I don’t think deepak picked-up joran. They were never on the beach. They were all at the van der sloots. Somewhere they will get what they deserve.

    73. 10061906 on June 9th, 2007 11:07 pm

      Can anyone follow with me. You would have had to down load the Claussen Investigative Report. My 3 links have disappeared. There is a restaurant near Wendy’s in the shopping center on LG Smith Blvd. I have the telephone book from Aruba; but I cannot find it in the book. Its called the Grand Victoria and I don’t mean the restaurant at the Radison. In the report one page says follow the star. The tree outside this restaurant looks like a star burst. Has anyone visited Aruba and know what I’m talking about. My volunteer diver friend sent me a ton of pix but he was not aware to look for that building. The bar tender at Maambo’s which is between the HI and Marriot said to find the Lion’s Den go down past Wendy’s, etc etc. follow the star.
      So if you take Shango literally then they took Natalee there. Something happened after the Kalpoes left.
      Paulus had to pick up Joran around 3:30AM and Paulus initially slipped and said he picked both of them up at the Mc Donald’s. There are three on Aruba.
      One on First street in Kamerlingh. One on LG Smith Blvd and the third is in Santa Cruz.
      I don’t remember him saying which of the three.
      If he picked up Joran in Santa Cruz, then obviously the bartender was wrong. And Natalee was some other place.
      I feel it is very important to tie down if Joran’s brothers were home and not in the Netherlands with Anita. I have heard both. I don’t believe Joran’ would have taken Natalee to his house if they were there. Actually from C n C’s to the Lions Den can’t be more that ten or twelve minutes; which is about 7 to 8 minutes closer than Joran’s house.
      Continuing in a somewhat different direction. We need a good open discussion as to why a cover up was necessary. Paulus lost his judgeship the key did not come from the Hague.
      Him and his son (s) and Anita are not that important to risk an economic disaster. Neither are the Kalpoes, Geoff, Guido, Freddy, Koen, Sanders, Croes, Andreas (B) and Michael Dompig, Jaime and Andre Santos. Collectively I just don’t know.
      Joran, 2K2′S, Geoff, Steve Croes, Paulus, Guido Wever and Freddy on a separate issue and AB questioned with Geoff and released. (guards not included)
      Not Arrested
      Keon, Sanders, Michael Dompig, Jamie and Santos and Anita.
      And you can’t say the coverup is because they are Dutch. You have a mixture on both sides.
      Michael Dompig- Joran was on Keon’s boat. Snaders- Joran was never on Keon’s boat.
      Someone higher up has gotten to all of these witness/suspects and has them all lying.
      Who and Why?

      Here is one McDonalds Next door to the Raddison
      Look under the Wendy sign. See the starburst tree. That is the restaurant or is it a rave house? Claussen report has a front view.

      If Paulus picked Joran up at 4:00AM at McDonalds; how close is the Radison to the Excelsior? If He picked up Joran at 11:00PM and took him home. That means that Joran could not have been home for more than about 40 minutes before Deepak picked him up.
      Then from there where did Paulus go if his younger sons were in The Netherlands with Anita. And if they were home; Paulus must have heard Joran getting picked up with Deepak’s car and the loud exhaust. There are just so much information (lies) and too little (truths) to go on.

    74. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 11:28 pm

      Here’s a nice window into
      the Aruban legal system.

      Jensen Interview:

      Joran: Uhhmm… I say they picked me up… Which was the way it happened. But… even if I had walked home what would be the difference? If I.. then… We sat before the judge and the judge said you contradict eachother… And even before the judge I said: Well if you want it I’ll say I’ve walked home… Even if that was not what happened. But I want to go home to… I mean… But then the judge said: No, that’s not what we want. You have to tell the truth.


    75. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 11:30 pm

      >Joran: Yes, finally we then went to the beach.

      * sub text:
      There were other places on the trip,
      when you toss a word like FINALLY
      into the mix.

    76. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 11:33 pm

      LOL thanks, Brie

    77. Carpe Noctem on June 9th, 2007 11:47 pm


      YES OR NO:

      Jensen Interview:

      Jensen: And, and… you didn’t think she was that attractive… right?
      Joran: No I had met her and her friend in the casino and… In the Excelsior casino at Aruba and uh, in fact I was talking to a friend of her… And when I arrived there (C&C’s) it was like: “You must go with Natalee… You must go to her…
      Jensen: Her friends said that?
      Joran: Yes, yes…

      SEEING IS BELIEVING ( and dat is de troof)

      Joran 2005 Interview

      “I thought she was attractive.”

      You’re losing it in the turns Joran!

      You are a sickness, just like your
      rabid father and mother. The inside of
      your soul must look like a burned out bus.

      I don’t know how you live with yourself.

      Justice 4 Nat

    78. Brie on June 9th, 2007 11:52 pm

      What about the ATM withdrawal at 4 in the morning? Paulus had to be out and about. But, of course he said he went home and went to bed and didn’t wake up until the next morning. Maybe Joran has his own card on Paulus’s account. And yes, if Paulus was home he would of heard Deepak’s car. I wonder how many times they rehearsed.

    79. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 12:12 am

      1906 I remember greta interviewing anita, and I’m pretty sure anita talked about her trip. I was on gretawire looking for that interview. There is a video with anita, but some reason I can’t get it to come up. greta has alot of the interviews on her site. It’s getting late here and I have church in the morning. I will see what I can find about anita’s trip. I can see that interview vividly. I know greta questioned her about the trip.

    80. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 12:23 am

      1906 I’ve sent an email to Greta lets hope she will answer the question about anitas trip.

    81. Brie on June 10th, 2007 12:53 am

      I recall Joran on an interview at the very beginning, he said his father didn’t like him going to the casino’s, so he invited his Dad to come along and play in the tournament, he wanted him to see how much fun it was. As if Paulus had never been in a casino before. @#$%^&*(Speechless)

    82. Waterboy (Jerry) on June 10th, 2007 1:07 am

      To All,

      I regret that I have open my mouth, and then only spoken in riddles, and I don’t want anyone to think that just because some one helped cover things up, that they participated directly in Natalee’s death. I’m absolutely sure that the actions of the 3 amigos, and Joran in particular lead to Natalee’s death.

      There may be any number of reasons for things to have been covered up. One explanation may be that father’s covered for their sons, not knowing for sure if maybe they participated in Natalee’s disappearance. They had probable been lied too so many times that they didn’t know for sure. Maybe it is just our culture, and maybe it is amplified in the Aruban culture, but it seems that fathers have no control over their sons. It takes guts to stand up to a hormonally ragging son, like my Dad did with my brother and me. With my son, I just got the upper hand at an early age, and he never realized he was stronger and bigger than me.

      It took me awhile to figure out why I cared about this case so much.
      I had to analyze my reasons. I really didn’t care that much until I watched the video clips of Natalee. The one where Beth is teasing her, and she just takes it in stride-what a totally decent child. The one where her friend runs into her at the football game, and they just laughed it off and have a good time with it-what a supportive and caring human this child named Natalee Holloway is. Once I starting reading the news clips and got on Scared Monkeys, I starting caring for Beth too. She reminds me a lot of my wife. They even look a little alike. They would both walk over hot coals, or swim an ocean for their child.

      I’m wrong. I’m wrong-a lot of the time. I’m wrong as much as I have been right. Everyone, including me wishes to be right. I hope I’m wrong about somethings. We will, I will, probable never know.

      Roy, 1906,and Carpe could certainly be novel writers for sure. So many posters are so rock, dead solid.

      I’m going to let my innuendos, and accusations go and give them a proper burial. My advice to all is sleep with one eye open, and keep the horizon in sight. Some day, some how, some time soon, we will know.


    83. Brie on June 10th, 2007 1:27 am

      Did you dance with Natalee, initially he said she motioned for him to come to the dance floor but he shook his head no. Now he answers yes to question, did you dance? He has told so many likes he can’t remember anymore what he said or didn’t say.

      He said Natalee friends wanted him to go to her. Wrong, her friends didn’t like him and furthermore they shouted for her to get out of the car.

      He also said Natalee asked to go with him, go with him where?

    84. Observer on June 10th, 2007 2:45 am

      On 6-22 (only hours after a “FoxNews” interview he and ANITA gave jointly) the police again questioned him and arrested him as a suspect for “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence” of NATALEE. When he is arrested Current Suspect P. SLOOT said, “these officers are all my friends.” While in custody Current Suspect P. SLOOT said he was never interrogated and he gave only 1 statement (presumably, a voluntary statement?). Current Suspect P. SLOOT admitted while in custody to telling Main Suspect J. SLOOT, Current Suspect D. KALPOE and Current Suspect S. KALPOE after NATALEE went missing that “with no body, there is no case.” (Prosecutor JANSSEN says Current Suspect P. SLOOT told the boys this “within a couple days” of NATALEE’s disappearance, but also on 6-30 JANSSEN told “MSNBC”, “They spoke about the situation that when there is no body you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance.”)

      On 6-24 the Aruban Attorney General spokeswoman, Mariaine CROES, said the senior van der Sloot is suspected of three crimes. They are: complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping. “Complicity means that someone intentionally has been helpful in letting another person commit a crime,” CROES said. “That can include providing the means, opportunity or information for someone else.”

    85. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 7:35 am

      Jerry, your feelings are real. You are a descent person, and it comes across in what you feel. Our children are gifts from God. We only have them for a short time, and then it’s their turn to grow-up and be descent human beings too. Everyone can look at Natalee and realize she was innocent to this big, harsh world. I have a daughter, and a grand-daughter that are my heart, and I could go on and on, but I love them with a passion. I live in Alabama, and Natalee, and Beth both touched me and have stayed. As for me please don’t regret anything you may have written. Our thoughts and ideas are important to our dedication. You have deep thoughts and I enjoy what you have to say. Let’s all continue on with the heartfelt convictions that we all have. It’s important that we share, and one day we will she Justice. Justice for a sweet, innocent, child named Natalee Holloway.

    86. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 8:08 am

      Sometimes my speeelin is just off. I know there’s speeel check. Please just fill in the words when it comes to my speelin.

    87. Pearl on June 10th, 2007 9:35 am

      You know Brie and Sparrow, what seems interesting to me about Paulus changing versions of WHAT HE DID duing the early morning hours of May 30th – are that two events seem to INTERSECT in TIME, surrounding PAULUS and his versions of what took place in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005:

      1. Paulus stated that HE PICKED UP JORAN at 4 AM, stating this on May 31 at 3 AM in the morning. Paulus then tried to suggest that BETH ( a language speech specialist, mind you) had somehow “mis-heard” what she HEARD. This then got spun into “Dutch is different than English”. I guess Paulus must think that none of the other witnesses with Beth also heard, what Beth heard – the 4 AM “I picked up Joran” statement – which, conveniently, Paulus seems to have had some pals change for him into 11 PM, mind you – a DAY EARLIER.

      2. Paulus seems to have had a BANK WITHDRAWAL that took place around the SAME TIME – as his PICK UP OF JORAN at 4 AM? Yet, Paulus claims to have been fast asleep in his bed. Did Paulus make a deposit? Did Paulus make a transfer of funds? Was Paulus making a withdrawal?

      3. There seems to be court records (?) that link Paulus Van der Sloot to having had CONTACTS with Natalee Holloway …? These records of contact with Natalee are in Aruba (?), and seem to have something to do with his grotesque desires for MONEY following the hideous criminal acts that were inflicted upon Natalee Holloway and her family.

      Brie, and Sparrow, it’s very difficult for me to understand the kind of man who looks to fill himself with cash surrounding the horrific suffering of a child that he apparently was engaged in having conversations and contact with, yet – when her mother asked him only hours later, for help in finding her baby, following HIS CONTACT with her precious baby – he then proceeded to LIE to Beth, concerning HIS KNOWLEDGE of her precious child.

      What kind of worms inhabit such a mind?
      What kind of diseased maggots consume such a contemptable ruthless heart?

      How do these men look upon that child’s beautiful face, and proceed to look at their own faces in the mirror?

      And if THIS is the mentality of Joran, as displayed in his commentary about Natalee, her mother and her family – then one can only imagine what the mind and heart of Joran Van der Sloot will look like in ten years time with an ALE that condones and even sanctions his contemptable conduct, and that of his father as well.

      God help the children in Aruba.
      God help children across the world who might be thinking of traveling to that island or to the Netherlands with these kinds of men on the loose and no actions taken whatsoever to DEFEND AND PROTECT SOCIETY FROM THESE KINDS OF PREDATORS.

      What a difference that justice makes in a society that roots itself in upholding human rights, upholding freedom, upholding justice.

      We have people like Chief John Douglass to thank, who make REAL the pledge to DEFEND AND PROTECT:

      “I realize that this is not the preferred conclusion. While we cannot give them their daughter back, we can at least give them justice.”

      Statement made by Chief John Douglass, upon the arrest of a suspect believed to have kidnapped and murdered 18 yr. old Kelsey Smith, following police work that involved thousands of hours of investigation, done in a matter of FOUR DAYS.

      Thank God in American we have men like Chief John Douglass.
      Thank God we have agents like Agent Williams.
      Thank God we have agents like those from Alabama and elsewhere, who value the trust that is implicit in the badges that they carry.

      Aruba has DOMPIG, and VAN DER STRAATEN.

      Aruba has all the others whose contempt for justice and whose arrogance towards the honor of wearing those badges speaks volumes about their attitudes concerning the sacred trust that was placed in them, by those entrusted to THEIR CARE. They are undeserving of the public’s trust, and therefore undeserving of the trust needed by traveling tourists who continue to be summoned as guests to their island. Imagine the USA treating guests we summon here for vacation, with the level of malicious treachery that has been inflicted upon Natalee Holloway and her beautiful family.

      Chief John Douglass will simply not allow such malfeasance to enter under his jurisdiction – and THAT is the difference between Aruba and the United States of America, because where there is a Chief John Douglass, an Agent Williams, a Jamie Skeeters, a J. Oriehja, there are thousands more just like them, whose integrity defines the HONORABLE CONDUCT we can EXPECT FROM THEM, or – as summed up so beautifully by Cheif Douglass:

      “I realize that this is not the preferred conclusion. While we cannot give them their daughter back, we can at least give them justice.”





      As Condoleeza Rice stated, when referencing statements made by our president, George Bush:


      Natalee Holloway deserves to be buried with dignity.
      Natalee’s body deserves to be honored and dignified with her human right to be returned to her loving family.
      Natalee Holloway’s TRUTH deserves the dignity of being SPOKEN.

      Natalee Holloway’s right to JUSTICE, and her family’s right to her justice – MUST BE HONORED.

      This is non-negotiable.

      George Bush, president of the United States of America

    88. on June 10th, 2007 11:37 am

      #48 Maggie has it right. Poor lil 6’2″ joran the victim. Why doesn’t everybody quit picking on the poor lil sporter?

      Ah so Jossy’s involved now huh? Well explain to us just how this happened and why Joran the victim, Satish and Deepak were the last ones seen with her. Why don’t they out Jossy?

      Ah yes and Jug’s involved and yet he wasn’t even on Aruba. Guess he must have paid Joran the victim, Satish and Deepak so why don’t they out him?

      Where Jossy and Jug at the swimming pool meetings with Paulus, Joran the victim, Satish and Deepak? Did Jossy and Jug finger the security guards? Why have Jossy and Jug worked so hard to “pin the crime” on Joran the victim, Satish and Deepak if they are involved? Wouldn’t they want to lead everyone away from the people who helped them?

      Trolls, trolls, trolls. You need better stories.

      Joran: you need better stories too. Preferably ones that don’t contradict each other. Holes you need to stick your fingers in: was Natalee pretty or not, was she drunk or not, did you regularly go to CNC (it happened 20 times before) or did Natalee’s friends make you do it, was Natalee’s behavior normal or outrageous, who picked you up from the beach, why someone would want to go see sharks in the dark, did you or did you not go to your house with Natalee, were you that hard up for girls that you had to go to a “place for whores” or are you “da man”?

    89. on June 10th, 2007 11:41 am

      More stories Joran needs to stick his finger in: why would a girl who barely talks to you want to have oral sex with you? What’s in it for her? Didn’t mama anita tell you that oral sex can be just as dangerous without a condom as regular sex (both are an exchange of body fluids)

    90. disgustedmom on June 10th, 2007 12:54 pm

      First off, thanks Robert for transcribing the Jensen interview!

      In it Jensen asks Joran how he can be so sure of some things and so unsure of other things. We know the answer to that is probably – Joran needs to be evasive on some details. Not so oddly, Paulus is evasive in some areas too on his June 23rd ’05 statement while recalling other less significant details, and the ones P is evasive (doesn’t remember things) just so happen to pretty much correspond to what Joran is evasive about. Makes it look like P knows what Joran knows.

      But Paulus also is evasive on other things that do not have anything to do with Joran, just about his own comings and goings in the days following Joran’s ‘outing’ with Natalee. Paulus continues to be evasive AFTER Joran’s story ends. This leads me to believe more strongly in the theory that Paulus and NOT JORAN knows what ultimately happened to Natalee.

      So I’ve composed a little ‘What if’….

      What if…..2K drove J around with Natalee, let’s say to the southern end of the island. During the ride Natalee realizes her plans are not matching what Joran has in mind. Nat protests, but Deepak parks the car while Joran continues ‘trying’ to get his way. Joran is getting angered by now because he assumed Nat was going to be Easy. Nat gets out of the car and tries to run. Joran goes after her, catchs her and they struggle. Nat ends up unresponsive and J2K are fearful she might be dead or dying. They can’t bury her because they aren’t sure if she is alive, but they haul butt and leave her there.

      It is getting late and 2K, especially Satish worry that Nadira will know they are not home, so Deepak drops Satish off at home -he gets online, then he and Joran sit by the Racket Club trying to figure out what to do. They know they can’t leave her there if she is alive because she will tell on them, and they know they can’t leave her there dead because they were the last ones seen with her.

      A jogger comes along and they know they have been spotted, so they leave again. (only Joran and Deepak in the car, so this is why the jogger’s witness statement was not believed. The jogger ‘added’ to make what he saw believable to what he had ‘heard’)Because they have been spotted they make cell calls to each other to ‘prove’ they were not together should the jogger say anything. (the boys are not really so smart to think of making an alibi like this normally, but as they have been discussing ‘what to do and how to lie out of it’ already, the making of an alibi at this point would be something they would think to do)

      They come to terms with the fact that they cannot leave Natalee where they did. Someone has to go get her and do something with her. Maybe bury her if she is dead or drop her at a crackhouse if she is not. But Deepak refuses to get involved in picking Natalee up. He is turning his back on Joran because Joran was the one who actually caused Natalee to be in the state she was in, whatever that was Deepak was not sure. So Deepak takes Joran home and then goes home himself. This would be about 3 AM if Nadira is telling the truth about seeing D’s car in the driveway at that time.

      Nadira said early on that her boys were home before 3 as their doors were closed. In a later statement she said she checked at 3 and their doors were closed and she additionally checked to see if the car was there. It was, according to her. I’m suggesting Nadira thought her boys were home before 3 because Satish had come in before that and set the door-closed signal, but later Nadira heard that loud car of Deepaks about 3 and got up to see what was going on.

      So 2K are now home, and Joran is home too, having ‘sneaked in’ without P noticing. He can do this because of his apartment…however, Joran is not in his apartment because he is on the family computer in the main house, so his sneaking in theory starts to take on suspicion.

      Let’s say now, either Paulus was awakened by Deepak’s loud car and then noticed the lights were on in the house and went to see what was going on this late at night when Joran had school the next day or he was still up, but for whatever reason let’s say P was told by Joran at that point that he had left a possibly dead girl out there somewhere. Paulus would most certainly wish to have this go away, so what would he do?

      Possible scenario 1, P goes to get her or 2, P calls his good buddy Jan and directs him to the area (there would have to be a known landmark) and Jan goes to get her. I’m voting for #2 because a cop picking her up would be the most easy to get P and Joran out of the picture (of something they think is a natural happening with ‘wild’ tourists) .

      Now, breaking away to clarity….Joran most likely told P that he and Nat were just messing around innocently and she just went unconscious. Joran has not told Paulus what really went on. So whoever went to pick Natalee up, P or Jan in this theory, thought they could just drop her off at the hotel or at some crackhouse and be done with it.

      But when the picker-upper person gets there he finds a responsive natalee who tells a tale of rape or attempted rape and so whomever picked her up cannot now take her anywhere but to the VDS home. This is news to the picker-upper person so now he knows he can’t drop her off and go on his way. She is going to get an Island Boy in trouble.

      I’m still betting on it being Jan who picked her up and as Natalee was able to ‘finger’ her attacker Jan drove her to the VDS home (of course pretending he happened upon her by accident) to confront Joran telling Natalee something like she could identify him there and he’d take him in or something….but his real intention was to talk natalee out of doing anything about it since P is his buddy.

      Natalee knows this is a cop and she knows Joran’s dad is a ‘judge’ so she feels safe going to the VDS home. But she soon realizes that they are not acting in her best interest and wants to leave. Most likely J, P and Jan are not speaking English to each other as they talk about what to do.

      Now I’m going to throw in something a psychic said because it fits with what I’m thinking so far…the psychic said Natalee was at the VDS house and tried to get away but was tackled by Joran whereupon she hit her head. So let’s say for sake of theory this happened. And let’s say at this point P sent Joran to bed, leaving only P and Jan to know what happened after that. P sends Joran to bed saying he will take Nat to the HI and since Jan is taking notes on what Nat said Joran did, nothing will come of it.

      Joran being stupid and loving to hear that all is OK no matter what he does, goes on to school the next day bragging and lying a bit about his conquest of the night before. Joran did this according to early records of students who said so, so I think at this point Joran thought all was well. Deepak at this point didn’t even give a crap because he thought it was Joran’s problem.

      I’ll continue this in another post….it’s getting too long to hold interest!

    91. Pearl on June 10th, 2007 12:57 pm

      * 84 – Observer…

      Quite a compelling difference in what – a matter of days, coming from the mouth of the chief prosecutor, wouldn’t you say, particularly when looked at against the back drop of what Mickey John had to say upon his release from jail?

      Paulus van der Sloot: “No corpse, no case”

      K. Janssen:

      “…and that was ALREADY in the FIRST DAY…” (which seems to have then morphed into:)

      “… in the days after ”

      A compelling little “detail” that seems to matter a GREAT DEAL…but K. Janssens language seems to have morphed with lots of other morphing episodes in Aruba that took place at the hands of those who seemed intent on denying Natalee’s truth from being spoken and her right to justice from being served…



      E. R. Murrow

    92. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 1:16 pm

      Pearl, we need Faith, Hope, and Love to see that justice is served, and I believe as a group we have those three ingredients.

      Has it ever been told how much money paulass withdrew from the atm?
      1906 is right on top of this. I believe you are so close. I bet that makes some anxious. I hope they squirm and sweat.

      Joran says he doesn’t talk to deepak anymore, but he certainly talks about deepak alot. deepak the taxi driver, deepak the tennis shoe fetcher, deepak the stupid. deepak, the one who will spend the rest of his life in prison for the murder of Natalee Holloway, because his boss, joran will put him there.

      joran & paulass. We want Natalee back on American soil. We want her back in her country the USA. Give her back to her parents. Give her back to the ones who love her. Give her back. Is there no remorse for what you have done? I pray for your souls. I pray that you give Natalee Holloway back.

    93. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 1:20 pm

      katablog, joran is quite the player wouldn’t you agree? He’s what we would call a lady-killer.

    94. Brie on June 10th, 2007 2:10 pm

      Joran said he finds it hard to say anything bad about Natalee. Never seemed to bother you before. You already said plenty, in case you don’t remember, I guess it’s hard to keep your wild ducks in a row and distinguish one from another. No condom, no sex…oh come on, who believes that!!!! You are eventually going to pay dearly.

      Tell us how does your mother, ho, know and can explain just how she could describe Natalee’s underwear.,(Sitting across the table from Beth)WHAT A DISGUSTING, REPULSIVE THING TO DO!!!!!!!!

      Why did pappa pervert write a letter, stating Natalee ran away? Fabrication….you are all quilty as the day is long.

    95. Brie on June 10th, 2007 2:14 pm

      86…hey little sparrow…I hear your sweet chirping…no need to apologize for spelling..if it makes you feel better, I typed personnel and I should of typed personal…it’s happens. Sometimes I think we are so anxious to respond that we think faster than we can type. It’s OKAY!!!! People understand what we mean!

    96. 10061906 on June 10th, 2007 2:18 pm

      disgustedmom: Please do not stop now. It’s getting interesting.
      Richrd: thank you for all your efforts:
      I’m sure if it were possible; Natalee would be thanking you also. Would be nice if she could do it in person….

    97. kayjay on June 10th, 2007 3:18 pm

      #71 Thanks Janet for the info. This case sure has passed the complexity test.. and as for the progress test…S L O W!! Would love to be a fly on the wall at their discussions. Meanwhile everyone ..BOYCOTT ARUBA.

    98. disgustedmom on June 10th, 2007 3:32 pm

      Part 2 of #90

      Backing up to when Deepak dropped Joran off at home….those missed signals they say they do on purpose due to lack of minutes, I’m not buying that. I think rather Deepak was driving home passing through an area where there was no signal and it was important that evidence suggest D was already home. I think J was trying to call him to update him that he had told P about the girl. OR P might have told Joran to get Deepak back there pronto so they could get their heads together and Joran was trying to do that…if that’s the case, then the possible reason Nadira was up about 3 looking for the car was that she heard it leaving after she heard it return only minutes before. My reasoning would be that she would not get up if she heard it return…she’d know it was home, but if she heard it return and then fire up again, she might go see what was going on. If so, then Nadira is lying by saying the car was there at 3…she would be covering and since she didn’t have to say that part about the car being there to prove anything (since the door thing was her proof her boys were home) then it could quite possibly be a lie. (useless information is often telling) And Deepak’s computer activity stopped about the time he could have gone back to the VDS house.

      Let me explain a bit more about what Nadira may have heard the whole night according to my thoughts…first she hears the car comes home when Satish is dropped off by D and J. She assumes both her boys are now home, but as the motor did not stop and start up again when S was dropped off she was not concerned with hearing the car again until D got home AGAIN with it about 3. She gets up to go see -not only if the doors are still closed, but also if the car is there or gone, not really knowing if the car is coming or going at that hour but wondering why she heard it twice. D is home now, so she’s not really lying much, and if she heard it again about 3:30 as D may have been summoned to theVDS house, she is not saying and who would blame her?

      So going on the possibility that D went back to the VDS house after 3:30, he may well have seen this alleged struggle between Nat and Joran that resulted in her getting a small injury to her head, hence he threw that in with the HI drop-off tale. If so, it’s only a small detail in this theory, but if so, then D was surely excused at the same time Joran was sent off after he couldn’t control his anger and was making things worse.

      At any rate, to go on with this….P and Jan would be the cohorts involved in what became of Natalee and as Joran would have seen her had she still been in the house when he left for school, then it seems Natalee may have been not in the house by that time, or if she was she was in such a state that she could be trusted not to yell out and get ‘stupid boy’ Joran involved again …this was Big Boy stuff by now. (note that this theory does not believe the younger sons of P were home that night)

      I have ideas of how they could have subdued Natalee, but doing any of them would only make P’s problems worsen. So I’m leaving that option open for now and just saying that somehow it happened. P and Jan were tired, distressed and confused and needed to buy time, and Jan probably needed to find out what was going on with Nat’s group too…so yeah, they needed time to do this right, so Nat was subdued. And I do think their intention was to find a way to let her go without her getting Joran (and now P and Jan) in the crapper.

      I know I said I was leaving the option open as to how they may have subdued Natalee, but basically I think drugged and knowing drugs would be in her system when she was found they were ready with the ‘Natalee did drugs’ story. What kind of drug? I have my suppositions about this and I don’t think it was some illegal drug -so to speak-, but rather some form of prescription drug an alcoholic would take to help him cope with symptoms and ‘sleep’, if you can imagine Paulus being an alcoholic that is. But whatever, I’m saying -drugged….and quite possibly physically restrained and temporarily hidden on the property (closet/shed) just in case.

      Now jump to….. it’s the next day before Nat’s family shows up and Paulus says he left work about 3 to go to the bank (it was so important to deposit some meager amount of cash that he had to leave work to try twice) but he didn’t do it then because the lines were too long. Why might P have left work at 3 if NOT to go to the bank? Well, enter Charles Croes getting a call to check on that mystery phone call. Wouldn’t that have been about that time window? Was the call traced to Joran and Croes let P know? Did P leave to go find that phone at his house before anyone else did? Was it an extra phone assigned to Joran that P didn’t know he had? (Joran makes a point of saying some have several phones, BUT NOT HIM) Did Croes jimmy the records and thus make that call irrelevant? We never did hear anything much about that all so important phone call that should have at the very least been able to exonerate the VDS’s from being the place the call was made from.

      In my thinking of theories I think the covering was impromptu all along up until some safe point. Teens don’t tell all they know, so P trying to cover things would meet obstacles over and over again.

      So let’s say P goes home to check on the phone and finds Natalee dead. Etc etc etc and then on May 31 after having had hardly any sleep in 2 days, after returning home with Joran after being called by Jan at 8:30am to get Joran out of school and bring him to Jan (at a different police station than had been handling this so far) to make a statement (that P admits they ‘worked’ on before having Joran sign it)…yes, after 2 very long stressful days and sleepless nights P goes out in the HOT SUN and PLAYS IN HIS GARDEN. Yes, that’s right…after 2 days with hardly any sleep while being distressed and all that, Paulus goes out into the hot afternoon sun to play in his garden.

      Some might say gardening is a stress release, and that is true…but also there could have been a reason why the earth in that area needed an excuse to have been recently worked. Was it because Nat had been buried there? I don’t think so. Too little area for what would be needed. What then?

      To be continued as I write it up…..

    99. Observer on June 10th, 2007 3:38 pm

      #91 Pearl

      Paulus calling Natalee a Corpse before she was missing is one of the most telling quotes in this case. “She was acting crazy” is another that stood out to me. I would imagine that when NH did wake up she freaked out after she learned what the pimps were doing to her. Shortly after..Something bad happened.

      I wonder what Mariane Croes and KJ were fighting about??

      On 6-24 the Aruban Attorney General spokeswoman, Mariaine CROES, said the senior van der Sloot is suspected of three crimes. They are: complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping. “Complicity means that someone intentionally has been helpful in letting another person commit a crime,” CROES said. “That can include providing the means, opportunity or information for someone else.”

    100. Maggie on June 10th, 2007 3:51 pm

      BTW, I too would like to thank Robert for all his hard work and help here.

      Post # 9

      He states the only thing he had to drink was 2 drinks at CnC. the only thing he drank all evening. Says he hadn’t drunk earlier in the evening.. LIES..

      Greta’s interview
      VAN SUSTEREN: Were you drinking at that point?

      VAN DER SLOOT: No, at that point, I wasn’t drinking. I’d had a drink at the – during the poker tournament, but at that point, I hadn’t taken a drink.

      He also said CnC closed within 2 hours.. How could that be if he got there a half hour before closing time?

      VAN SUSTEREN: When you arrived at Carlos ‘n Charlie’s, any idea about what time it is?

      VAN DER SLOOT: It was probably, you know, 12:15, I think, 12:30 maybe.

      VAN SUSTEREN: How late does it stay open?

      VAN DER SLOOT: That night it was open until 1:00 AM.

      He says he asked Deepak and Satish if she could go along. However remember Deepak said he got separated from them and went to the car. Joran showed up Natalee got in one side and Joran in the other. Nothing about Joran saying is it ok if she goes? Why would he ask them that, when the whole point of going to CnC that night in the first place was to meet up with some MB girls. That’s what he says he told Deepak when he called him and Deepak agreed.

      Nothing about his story makes any sense. If he wanted to get his tennis shoes. He said they were dropped off by the Marriott walked down the water and took off his shoes and left them. If wanted his shoes, they could drive down by the Marriott and let him walk to the beach and pick them up. Truth is, they were never there.. There’s a good reason his shoes are missing. My guess would be DNA.

      Natalee was so normal and sober she knew what she was doing. She was sober and normal during sexual stuff, however she was crazy, just crazy saying let’s see sharks, I don’t want to go to my hotel, I want to sit on a dark beach at 3am alone in a a foreign country, she was crazy dancing on a bar, doing jello shots, yelling at me to dance, yet she wanted to go with us, she was normal, she knew what she was doing.

    101. Brie on June 10th, 2007 3:51 pm

      There is something that comes to mind, Deepak said in an initial statement, that he never drove his car on gravel roads, this information he volunteered, no asked him if he was on a gravel road. Spoke before he thought!! There are gravel roads on the opposite of the island. No one lives there. Sharks, rock, rough terrain and alot of cactus. Joran also brings sharks into the conversation. Could there be alittle outloud thinking from the subconscience?

    102. Robert on June 10th, 2007 4:02 pm

      JvdS spotted on his bike in a shirt of that specific site (shirt is also shown in dynamic top-ad): &

    103. Maggie on June 10th, 2007 4:17 pm

      I saw a preview for “The Haunting” on Court Tv for June 20th and a pyschic will be doing Natalee’s case on it. A short preview shows the woman on the beach in Aruba(I believe) saying she can see Natalee running and screaming.

      I never was one to believe in psychics much, but will watch it and see what it’s about.

    104. Pearl on June 10th, 2007 4:36 pm

      I have a question for Deepak:

      Hey, Lamp without any lights going on in your head…

      Regarding that “ONE” meeting you had with Pauless, the unconscienable lying monster – …


      Are you smellin’ the coffee yet, Lamp?

      How could you have been so sucked in, as NOT TO SEE, LAMP?

      Deepak, you’ve got to be the only lamp in Aruba without any lights on. Is Satish’s lights going out too, Lamp?

      What unbelievable doormat, suckers you and your brother are for the likes of Paulus and Joran, who had Joran’s files removed ( about the big drop off LIES and the big security guard lies) and then left …WHOSE files, Lamp?


      Lamp: when you told Joran… “YOUR FATHER, UNBELIEVABLE” … (remember that, Lamp?)…well, THAT was when your lights were just a ‘flickering’.

      You should have followed your instincts, Lamp.


      And you know who got ditched, don’t you, Lamp?


      Joran is sticking to the: “Satish drove me home” story.

      Guess that means that YOU and the little brother were the LAST ONES to know where Natalee was, Lamp, and not – well, you know who, Lamp.

      Get the oil, Lamp.
      Light the fire.
      Otherwise, you’re going to be in darkness for a VERY long time.

    105. disgustedmom on June 10th, 2007 4:47 pm

      Part 3 and final part of #’s 90 and 98…

      Before starting Part 3, I want to say that I’ve read so many theories as we all have and I have taken parts of other peoples’ theories in developing my own ideas. I have also taken into account things that psychics and mediums have reported. A blanket credit to anyone I borrowed from! Being an avid fan of Psychic Detectives J I try to do what they do….work with actual case statements/rumors etc within what psychics might say…see if anything fits. I have emailed in the past with one particular psychic who no longer posts or speaks of this case to anyone because she says this case is quite dangerous. She, however, way back when had told me there were at least 2 other girls of the same-ish fate as Natalee and that they were buried stacked on top of each other. Not long after that, the crypts were broken into. She also said she emailed the family to look for a lone cross, just about a week before Dave found one. After he found that, she said that was NOT the one! It was put there to throw off the case and that is when she began to stop posting online because in that she saw a leak in the ranks….a trusted person. She didn’t say who it was. Rather she does not want to know because she feels it will not do any good and will only prolong resolution.

      Now with all the things I’ve read in mind, here’s what I consider to be a plausible theory on where Natalee might be:

      I’m going out on a limb now and ask where the VDS dog that died a couple weeks before that Memorial Day weekend ’05 was buried. Could it have been in the VDS yard? And if so, is it still there? I’m going out on this limb because several psychics have directed the finding of Natalee to a pet cemetery on the south end of the island…and what a great place to hide a body! Who would dig up someone’s pet without very good reason? And cadaver dogs would be confused by dog scent if a human body were under a dog. And as the International School is on that tip of the island the cemetery is a convenient place to be able to drive by on occasion and make sure all is well without arousing suspicion. (Shango said Natalee was in plain site….what is more plain than a plain white cross marker over a ground-grave?)

      So in summation….

      What does Jan know? Everything, IMO. He has seen the evidence somehow and it was probably the day before he decided to get Joran to make a statement that ‘made sense’….let’s say just after 3 PM on May 30 when P found Nat gone from this world, not at Joran’s hand, but unintentionally at his and Jan’s.

      Paulus also states that he called Anita after playing in his garden and told her what was going on. I feel sure this is the first Anita heard of it as she would have hopped a plane sooner had she known sooner…and I believe P called her while she was in Holland in case she got bombarded by media at the airport and said something wrong.

      The next day P had a normal day -as he calls it. Hence, the next day being the day after a reliable disposal and the day Anita returned home, of course all was normal now for Paulus. He and his buddy Jan had even gotten Joran’s statement corrected for ‘fact versus observations’- Um Hm -at a different location than was handling the case.

      Finally, the dog thing is sort of strange to me because rumor had it that Joran had killed it in a rage. (this is denied by the VDS’s) Rumor also had it that Joran was being treated for Anger problems and that he had recently ceased that….perhaps meds were involved and perhaps his being off them Natalee was the first tourist to trigger his anger by pi**ing him off, perhaps like his doggie may have done? So what is strange to me about the dog being buried with Natalee or vice versa is that …well, I think Paulus is a tender-hearted man (not taking up for him at all! I’m just saying he is turned that way and is weak because of it and so has given lots of favors to people) so being tender-hearted I think he would have been very upset if Joran had killed the dog in anger and since Natalee’s passing may have also stemmed from Joran’s anger, then it seems a bit apropos that P might reason to put these 2 beings who died via Joran’s anger together when faced with having to dispose of another victim of Joran’s anger. It’s sort of dramatic, I know…but not if you think about a man trying to find closure on what his son caused HIM to get involved with and ultimately do, plus it has the added advantage of taking Natalee back to the original area of where crime began -the southern end of the island and getting it away from HIS involvement/the house. It would be a peaceful ending for Paulus psychologically speaking…and that is all he is concerned with – a peaceful ending for himself/ his own conscience.

      I don’t think if P disposed of Natalee he would have done it in any horrendous way. I think he would have respected her remains the best he could and even mourned her a bit. Now he needs to give her family that opportunity! If he did it, of course.

      I hope the Dutch team that took the dirt from the VDS yard/garden check it for canine decomposition. If the don’t, then I’ll still have to wonder about the dog theory. After all, Joran thought digging up his dad’s garden was funny. P supposedly laughed as well…but I just wonder if his was a tad bit nervous laughter. Might be interesting to be able to follow P around and see how often he casually drives by the pet cemetery checking on things.

    106. Pearl on June 10th, 2007 4:51 pm

      99 … I do believe you are on the edge of something very explosive.

      … there were so very many morphing episodes concerning certain individuals in this case….

      SO many CHANGED VERSIONS of statements…times, even PHONES!

      Changed times … changed dates ….EVEN …what appears to be changed “witnesses” and evidence results!

      Dear Observer, perhaps you can help me with this one:


      “IN THE FIRST DAY” …. into….”IN THE DAYS AFTER”?

      Goodness, Karen – what might that MEAN if the statement was made “IN THE FIRST DAY”?





    107. Pearl on June 10th, 2007 5:07 pm

      *99 – Observer, maybe you can help me with something…

      So much was CHANGED in those early days when Natalee was victimized by the ruthless murderers who took her life away from her.

      Times…dates…why, even PHONES were changed!

      But you know what troubles me, Observer?


      “IN THE FIRST DAY” …. into … “IN THE DAYS AFTER” ?

      I do believe that Karen was unable to go back into her memory cells with integrity in her pocket, or at the very least, she “couldn’t go in there like cowboys” and just retrieve her initial remarks about Paulus and WHEN EXACTLY he made that horrific comment…which, started out as “IN THE FIRST DAY” …only to become …”IN THE DAYS AFTER”…

      Maybe Deepak, THE LAMP without any lights on, can answer that question.

      After all, HE WAS THERE when those words were first spoken.

      Perhaps Deepak can help us understand WHY Karen Janssen switched her remarks from “IN THE FIRST DAY” into “IN THE DAYS AFTER” … even as Deepak knows what it means if HE and HIS BROTHER did NOT PICK UP JORAN – JUST AS DEEPAK KNOWS WHAT IT MEANS IF SATISH AND DEEPAK DROVE JORAN HOME!!!

      Hey Deepak: Did the lights go on yet for you, lamp?

    108. buster on June 10th, 2007 5:51 pm

      I just saw a trailer for a show coming on Court TV starting June 20 They got a physic to answer some questions about Aruba and Natalee !!! Has any one else herd about this ??? I did not get the name of the show.

    109. Brie on June 10th, 2007 6:24 pm

      Tell me, does pee-wee pecker think that he is really that big of jock? Girls are always at his beck’n'call. He barely knows Natalee and in 1/2 hour she is in the car with 2 strangers and Joran, they immediately go to the beach and Natalee performs oral sex. Joran doesn’t have sex without a condom, that’s probably the only thing in his wallet. I don’t believe, on Natalee’s behalf she was as Joran describes, unless the date-rape drug was given to her and it more than likely was.

      I think Deepak and Satish had better come to terms as to what was the “bad thing that happened to Natalee”. Why say something bad happened if it didn’t.

      Dome’s day is on it’s way!!!!!!!!!!!!

    110. Maggie on June 10th, 2007 6:54 pm

      #108 Buster,,,,, see post #103..

    111. dennisintn on June 10th, 2007 7:29 pm

      #l08, buster, read #l03, i think “the haunting is what you’re looking for.

    112. Janet on June 10th, 2007 8:34 pm


      Pearl … I contend that the prosecutor of the Natalee Holloway investigation who is in a position of knowledge spoke words of truth in her June 30, 2005 interview but … considering her about face in subsequent interviews I can only assume that the “powers that be” must have got to her. Maybe it was the same “powers that be” that silenced Mickey John in regards to his conversation with Deepak while they were detained.


      JUNE 30, 2005
      ‘The Abrams Report’
      JANSSEN: The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he give them some legal advice, but I think the advices were going further than that. They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don’t have a case. AND THAT WAS ALREADY IN THE FIRST DAY AFTER THE DISAPPEARANCE.
      JULY 1, 2005
      Fox New
      Janssen said the elder van der Sloot gave his son and the Kalpoe brothers legal advice, telling them that without a body there is no case. “HE CONFIRMED TO ME THAT HE TOLD THEM THAT A FEW DAYS AFTER SHE DISAPPEARED” Janssen told the AP.
      JULY 5, 2005
      Janssen said Van Der Sloot, a judge, also spoke about the case with his son and the two other suspects SOME DAYS AFTER HOLLOWAY’S DISAPPEARANCE. “They were speaking about the situation that if you don’t have a body, there is no case,” Janssen said.
      JUNE 29, 2005
      On the Record w/ Greta
      JOHN:…He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, AND THE DUTCH GUY’S FATHER, THEY SIT AND MADE UP THE STORY.

    113. disgustedmom on June 10th, 2007 8:35 pm

      Actually, the show is called Haunting Evidence and it’s on your Court TV channel. There is also a The Haunting but that is on a different channel and not the same sort of thing. The just tell ghost stories!

    114. Maggie on June 10th, 2007 9:02 pm

      Thanks for the correction #113 disgusted mom.

    115. Maggie on June 10th, 2007 9:20 pm

      If Deepak actually went home and got on the pc and Satish went to bed, why would Deepak try to get someone to lie about his whereabouts that night?
      February 23, 2006

      BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: I know one thing that Deepak Kalpoe did in August was, when the gardener came before the judge of instruction to give sworn testimony of witnessing those three suspects together in the Kalpoe brothers’ car that night at the pond, across the street from the Marriott, it was in front of the prosecutor, in front of the defense, the judge of instruction, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, Joran Van Der Sloot.

      Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

    116. IndyDan on June 10th, 2007 9:36 pm

      I too want to add my thanks for all your help in translating.
      I know that takes a lot of time and effort and we all apprecriate it. THANKS!

    117. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 9:40 pm

      disgustedmom, I do believe that the theory you have about Nadira checking on deepak and satish could be right on the money. She would have gotten up to check as to why she heard the car the second time. At least that’s what I would have done, but I also would have wanted to know why they were out so late to start with.

      Do you have a theory about the ATM machine. I don’t know why I’m so interested in this part of this puzzle. To get money from an ATM at 4 in the morning sounds desperate, or a case of emergency funds. It couldn’t have been enough money to be labeled hush money. Maybe enough to buy gas for a quick trip in a car or a boat. You know what I mean by the boat theory–to bury Natalee at sea. The ATM thing again, Anita has to know what was withdrawn from that bank. Somebody in the bank surely got nosey enough to know the amount. Now if gas were bought at a marina at daybreak, but then again, it didn’t have to be bought then–It’s this ATM thing that has me, and I can’t shake it.

    118. IndyDan on June 10th, 2007 9:41 pm

      Brie #109
      His mother called him a Delicious Sporter, is there a connection with that and his obsession with oral sex??

    119. sparrow on June 10th, 2007 9:59 pm

      deepak, the stupid one, should panic, because lover-boy joran is putting the murder of Natalee Holloway on deepak. joran, the one with all the girl-friends, who had plans to meet some MB girls–didn’t have a condom with him. Give me a break. pee wee pecker always has a condom in his wallet. joran has everything doesn’t he deepak? deepak has nothing, but the rest of his life in a filthy prison.

    120. 10061906 on June 10th, 2007 10:41 pm

      disgustedmom: All are very interesting. But why do you think the phsychic stopped and said this is too dangerous.
      Surely not because of the 4 main characters. They appear to be piss ants on Aruba. We have not gotten to why and who started this Island wide coverup.

    121. Brie on June 10th, 2007 11:19 pm

      Didn’t Nadira initially think, it was strange for the boys to go out after midnight? Or is she another permissive parent? Maybe Joran pays well!

      I am forever curious, as to the ATM withdrawal from the ATM machine…yet the subject has never been challenged by the ALE. I think it’s a very important issue..why do you need money at 4:00 in the morning, and besides that Paulus said he was sleeping…yea…like a fox!

      A delicious sporter, that sounds like something mother ho would say!!!

      I think there might be some belief in the physic phenomenona. I don’t know for sure..but I am willing to listen.

    122. Brie on June 11th, 2007 12:22 am

      Perhaps, Tim Miller will also search the pet cemetery. This has never been brought up before but it is certainly worth checking into.

      Many statements made by Joran, you will never find her. Is that to discourage us from looking or does he know for sure what he has done will prevent us from finding her. How does a sociopath think along these lines? Expert needed!!!!

      I believe it is way past time,the FBI needs to return to Aruba. We are investigating the case of Natalee and we are not leaving until we find out. Isn’t our government suppose to be for the people? Well then, who are we?

    123. mayan_moons on June 11th, 2007 12:25 am

      Yes Thanks Robert!

    124. Brie on June 11th, 2007 12:40 am

      So Aruba is unsafe, rent-a-car in Aruba, yea and get run over…way too many convictions…spike them a drink and then arrest them for reckless driving. Corruption. We need to educate more people…do not visit Aruba. I usually spend a handsome of money on fireworks for the 4th of July, I think this year, I want to purchase some helium tanks, not that expensive, print some ballons, not that expensive, and tag those I send. Lamination machine, not that expensive. We need to do more to protect our children from Joran’s!!!!! A worthwile project, could be rewarding…no Aruba. It is within the best interest of this country and abroad travel to eliminate passports to Aruba!!! Over and out!!!10-4

    125. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 12:59 am

      disgustedmom: It wasn’t hard for the phsychic to mention a cross in the pet cemetery. Here is one of the pictures.
      Where would we begin to look?

    126. Brie on June 11th, 2007 1:06 am

      There you go Sparrow…I spelled balloons wrong..see!!!

    127. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 1:08 am

      disgustedmom. Maybe you are on to something.
      I was off the planet for almost 8 months.
      I know about Shango and Simian and have downloaded all the riddles.
      I recently came across one from Merian Ernest. I havn’t a clue who that person is. But in those riddles the name “jake” came up alot.
      Check this out from the pet cemetery.

    128. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 1:10 am
    129. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 1:15 am

      I have to apologize. It’s really late: That was in Simian

    130. mayan_moons on June 11th, 2007 1:21 am

      Paulus was witnessed having twice been in contact with Natalee the night of May 29th. One of those two contacts was in the casino, we’ve seen him conversing with Natalee but when Beth shows up with a large framed senior photo of Natalee, shows it to PAULUS and HE PRETENDS NOT TO HAVE EVER SEEN HER BEFORE.


    131. mayan_moons on June 11th, 2007 1:33 am

      With all due respect even the suggestion that Paulus is in any way a victim here is an outrage and at the same time laughable.

    132. mayan_moons on June 11th, 2007 2:22 am

      Paulus and Jurine were lying to Beth that they’d never seen her before when they were sitting at the same blackjack table 14 hours prior to Beth’s arrival.

      They panic’ed when Beth show up at their door so quickly and all they could think of to do in that minute is totally deny seeing Natalee the previous night.

    133. Brie on June 11th, 2007 2:34 am

      Passports to Aruba…ney…unless the government declares it’s safe….that can only be warranted by the investigation of Natalee…..It’s not safe!!

    134. Brie on June 11th, 2007 2:36 am

      Paulus a victim….Paulus an accomplice!!!

    135. mayan_moons on June 11th, 2007 2:53 am

      Thats not emotion or speculation….thats a cold hard fact.

    136. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 4:34 am

      I think Paulus Van der sloot is a

      gang-raping, full blown, raging pedophile!

      Paul loves the young girlies, so much he actively

      recruits his rabid blood hound of a son to “hook” for him.

      Aruba, close your curtains, and hide your daughters…

      because Joran’s ROTUND MATERNAL UNIT is now in Holland.



      That means the Van der sloot / Kalpoe Oranjestad

      Gang-Rapist, Execution Squad is out on the Aruban streets

      in full force! PROWL TIME, LADIES!!!

      Home base is at 19 Montanja, of course!


      …and never forget what Joran Van der sloot THE RAPIST/

      MURDERER of Natalee Ann Holloway says:

      JUNE 2007



      Joran: Well I of course find it very difficult to speak bad of her…

      (Natalee) But that moment I thought that yes… Well just… That’s an easy girl…


      “Fok die bitch”

      -Magazine Interview
      reference by Joran
      talking about Natalee.


      I hope Holland, Aruba, or a wildcard independent decide to

      put you and your sick SCUM OF A FATHER out of your misery

      of walking this Earth!




    137. sparrow on June 11th, 2007 7:28 am

      Mornin Ms Brie,

      lol, I didn’t notice the mispelled word, but not only can’t I speel I can’t see as well either.

    138. sparrow on June 11th, 2007 7:29 am

      Robert, I want to tell you how much I have enjoyed your hard work. Thank you

    139. Richard on June 11th, 2007 8:43 am

      Robert, thanks for your translation. I was away over the weekend, just got home last night late … and now see this whole long new post! Will have to read this over.

      DisgustedMom: One thing to keep in mind; date rape drugs pass out of the body very quickly, at least for the most part, according to what I’ve read. This is why women who think they may have been given one are urged to go to a hospital QUICKLY … because in a day or so, I gather, the evidence passes out of the body, and there is no way to tell.

    140. disgustedmom on June 11th, 2007 8:45 am

      I’ll be back on here later to answer some of those who asked me things…have to run to work, but for now I just want to say that if any of those remarks about Paulus being a victim are aimed at what I said about him being tender-hearted etc, ….let me be clear here….I DO NOT think Paulus is a victim! He’s a weenie and an arsehole and a grown man who could not ever be a victim of being involved in this. He made up his own mind what he ‘needed to do’ for his son. And any closure he may have gotten for himself by the little plan I suggested would be only for his selfish self….however, I think he tends to justify his bad behaviours by – for lack of a better way to say this- giving consolation prizes that he feels makes everything OK…sort of like if a parent beat up his kid and then bought him a toy he’d been wanting…that is a latent expression of feeling bad/tender heartedness without really undoing the damage that only really makes the bad parent feel better.

      I hesitated to put that part in there about tender-heart etc because I didn’t want it to me misinterpreted. Please don’t anyone ever get any idea that I think there is one noble or wonderful thing about PVDS or that he is in any way a victim here. There is only ONE Victim and that is Natalee!

    141. Brie on June 11th, 2007 10:56 am

      And Joran murdered the dog, the family pet. You sicko!!!
      When Joran doesn’t get his own way, it turns to hatred, violence and then murder. An active member of the pimp club, I guess rape is how you pay your dues and how dare you not co-operate, sex, the way I want it, or you die!!!!

    142. Pearl on June 11th, 2007 11:10 am

      #140 – I’m not sure what other folks are thinking; I can only offer this to you:

      There can and will never be – in any way, shape or form, anything tender hearted about any person’s involvement at any level, in the drugging, kidnapping, gang rape, beating, murder, and then – burying, digging up and re-burying of a defenseless little girl, victimized by a gang of savages.

      The desecration alone of this precious child’s body is criminal and contemptable by any standards of human decency and constitutes TORTURE of her family as well as a cruel torture of the victim, Natalee. Such conduct is inhumane and barbaric and defies any standards of civilized conduct.

      You see, Digustedmom, if Paulus had nothing to fear regarding his involvement, then I suppose there would be no need to CONCEAL that he was indeed not only AT THE CASINO, WITH HIS SON, but, that he was SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO NATALEE and ENGAGING HER in conversation.

      He stated: he picked up his son at 4 AM on 5/30.
      He made this statement on 5/31 at 3 AM in the morning, to a very large group of witnesses.

      Why did Paulus need to then later CHANGE his “pick up time” suggesting that he picked up Joran at 11PM – the PREVIOUS DAY, and not only that – but, then proceed to extract HIMSELF from HIS PRESENCE AT THE CASINO on 5/29 during the time that HE was SEATED right next to Natalee?
      If he was only concerned with “protecting his son”, then WHY EXTRACT HIMSELF, Digustedmom?

      In the world of liars, murderers, kidnappers, druggers, rapists and so on, they would have all of us believe that BETH, THE FBI, and ALL BETH’S WITNESSES – somehow “mis-heard” what PAULUS really said, mind you – along with the convenient ABSENCE of ALE RECORDS which should have been dutifully recorded with integrity, honesty, and justice to THE TRUTH of what was stated that night at 3 AM in the morning at the Van der Sloot residence. Furthermore, Paulus would like us all to believe that HE WENT HOME, and that HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH NATALEE… WHY THE NEED TO EXTRACT HIMSELF FROM THE CASINO, AS SEATED RIGHT NEXT TO NATALEE, ENGAGING HER IN CONVERSATION? WHY HIDE FROM BETH THAT HE HAD SEEN NATALEE, ONLY THE NIGHT BEFORE?

      I would add to this, that the ALE then followed up – that meeting of that night, 5/31 – with MAJOR CHANGES in Beth’s statement, (when they eventually FALSIFIED what she ACTUALLY HAD STATED) which – they again, conveniently did not seem interested in taking from her at 3 AM in the morning on 5/31 – nor, any time for the remainder of that day.

      In fact, when Beth did submit a statement to these unconscienable dishonest individuals, HER WORDS WERE THEN CHANGED, WITH MAJOR PORTIONS OF HER STATEMENTS REMOVED, FROM WHAT WAS THEN – PRESENTED AS: “HER STATEMENT” – given to her IN DUTCH, and presented for her signature.
      To the best of my understanding, disgustedmom, that constitutes FALSIFICATION of records, and what clearly seems to be an attempt to OBSTRUCT JUSTICE, as critical facts concerning incriminating statements made by JORAN, were then REMOVED from BETH’S STATEMENTS.

      This is beyond savagery.

      I do not know if this helps you in understanding why those upholding Natalee’s right to justice might take great issue with any suggestions of Paulus – as having a “tender heart”.

      A tender heart cannot savagely lie to a distraught mother, over her missing baby.

      A tender heart cannot savagely lie to a heart broken mother and father over knowledge of WHERE their baby was placed.

      A tender heart cannot savagely reference a missing child – who isn’t yet reported missing, as a “CORPSE” which – if kept hidden will yield to “no case”, and then, proceed to lie only HOURS LATER, to her mother about HIS KNOWLEDGE of WHERE her baby is, and of WHAT happened to her.

      As always … Natalee, and her truth, her right to justice will be at the foreground of how we look at this case, because she indeed is the victim, as is her family victims of this horrific cruelty inflicted upon all of them by those who chose to lie, deceive, collude, obstruct and engage in criminal conduct in order to crush her little voice from speaking her truth.

      Justice for Natalee; Justice for her family!

    143. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 12:41 pm

      Sorry to say Woods, Kelly, Miller, Beth, Jug, and Dave have all been infected with moles. In reading who these peopled talked to and about what… They were almost always second guessed.
      They were befriended by moles.
      The old saying blood is thicker than water; they may not have been related but they all banded together, to collect information and pass it on for a cover up.
      My opinion and one has to agree.
      I watched too many X FILES episodes.
      The Truth Is Out There—Trust NO ONE!!!

    144. disgustedmom on June 11th, 2007 1:38 pm

      Pearl, RE: 142

      I DO understand why people would take offense to my suggestion that P had a tender heart….that is why I tried to clarify what I meant. I was in a hurry this morning so let me try again…I’m not talking about valid tender heartedness that comes from love for others…I’m talking about ‘sick’ forms of it.

      Paulus’s tender heart is only for himself. Such that you know when someone savagely murders another and then gets sentenced to die for it, what do they do? The tender heart they have for THEMSELVES makes them cry for THEMSELVES that they have to face death. Never do they ever consider that the person they murdered deserves any sympathy, so they are never tender hearted toward their victims.

      So that is the tender heart I was saying I feel Paulus has….it’s the feel sorry for himself thing…and it is so prominent in this case that he feels this way because of the misplaced blame toward Natalee and her family (and he has instilled this in his rotten son) AND even toward those of us who are outraged by Natalee’s disappearance and the way the case has been handled and even his insistance to be paid for being suspected in this…Paulus is tender hearted toward himself and only toward himself and his form of tender heartedness is self pity.

      Paulus feels sorry for himself that life has handed him another lemon. He can’t see (because he is emotionally immature)that his life choices is what caused him to be in a lemon situation, so he feels sorry for himself/is tender hearted with himself…the opposite of being tender hearted with himself would be to man-up and take responsibility for what he has done and face whatever pain that brings him. He is never going to do this! He is not mentally healthy enough to even WANT to see that he brings on his own problems by his own life choices so his approach to fixing his problems will be to escape from them by blaming others rather than to face them, learn from them and become a real man. (replace ‘adult’ for ‘man’ because women do this too)

      I think it’s important to understand why people behave the way they do because that leads to clues. I think it’s called Pychological Forensics or something like that. There are only, I think, 9 basic human behavior patterns. If we can know which one a perp exhibits then it is possible to even predict their future moves with some accuracy.

      So based on my psychological evaluation of P’s behavior throughout this case, I would imagine him deciding to bury a loved pet(and of course I’m only speculating a theory) who met his end at the hands of his violent son with a beloved ‘someone’s’ daughter who also became a victim of his son’s violent anger would be Paulus’s way of pretty much blaming Joran and not himself (because Joran started it)…thus absolving himself of blame for his subsequent part in it….Paulus would tell himself he ‘got caught up’..tsk tsk. P would never admit HE made bad choices and actually say what they were…meaning he would lie about it to further protect himself.

      Remember what he told Dave? He would do anything to protect his son! Aside from Paulus leaving himself out of anything to do with it, do you see how shallow his mind works when it comes to tender heartedness? He can’t for a minute be tender toward Natalee and her family and give to them what he would want for himself…he can’t joint that up…. and I’ll tell what else I think….I think Paulus’s concern with protecting Joran is only based on the what pain Paulus doesn’t want from it….how Paulus’s life will be affected which ironically includes the loss of what dreams he hoped to realize through his ‘sporter’ should Joran go to jail for a very long time. With Paulus it’s not really about Joran, it’s all about Paulus. (and with Joran it’s all about Joran)…(and I suspect it’s been all about self with a lot of people involved in this travisty they call an investigation)… a lot of people are tender hearted only toward themselves and if it were not so none of this would have happened; Natalee would never have gone missing to begin with because people would have properly placed their tender emotions toward making sure Natalee was respected as an individual instead of an extension of some jerk’s idea of fun for himself. It all goes back to self centered people who- when their choices cause them problems- run from responsiblity for their selfish actions because they don’t see their choices as selfish BECAUSE they are mentally sick!

      I hope that makes better sense.

    145. disgustedmom on June 11th, 2007 1:45 pm

      I agree with you! The family was used to provide a means of making this case harder to solve.

      I would imagine by now there are so many involved in one way of another it won’t be long until the fat lady slips up and accidently sings out something that will implicate someone so far down the line from the fat lady that he/she does not realize he/she has ‘broken the case’ wide open. Anyway, this is my hope.

    146. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 2:33 pm

      143 WAS SUPPOSE TO READ no one has to agree. But then again if you do that’s ok too.

    147. Robert on June 11th, 2007 3:57 pm

      Glad you appreciate the transcript/translation of the Jensen – JvdS interview; pleased to do it. I hope all the little (and some bigger) errors weren’t too irritating…

    148. mayan_moons on June 11th, 2007 4:10 pm

      No one is really suprised when a parent doesn’t want to believe their kid commits crimes and even aids and abets their offspring in some way, be it not calling the police, giving money to their child ect. Much like Scott Peterson’s parents did and he was 30 years old. But when LE and Judge’s and prosecutor’s assist the perp’s and you live on an island where tourism makes up 80% of your economy then HOUSTON>>YOU”VE GOT A PROBLEM!

      Its hard to come up with words for this when these same people think they are just going to run a tv ad and everything is just going to go back to the way it was…..THATS F’N CRAZY.

    149. buckeye on June 11th, 2007 5:36 pm

      It’s great to have you take the time to translate and it’s great to have you posting. I didn’t notice one error (of course, I took, useless French). Thanks again.

    150. Observer on June 11th, 2007 6:33 pm


      No doubt in my mind Karin Janssen failed Natlee’s family miserably. As soon as Beth was on to her she ceased all contact. This was after the blood evidence in the Kalpoe car turned out to be Chocolate. She knew JK2 was lying and that NH never made it back to the HI but she still issued the arrest of the security guards.. She knew that PVDS committed a crime when interfering with witnesses. She knew PVDS consulted the boys “No Corpse No Case” Even before Natalee was officially missing. She fought for months with Theresa Croes to the point where they wanted to reprimand her if issues were not resolved with her superiors.

      KJ worked in media before Aruba so she realized what she was implying about PVDS. They certainly did a great job of keeping the focus away from PVDS and no I dont believe for one second she was just following through on what Van Der Stratten presented her with. She had to know about the two contacts that PVDS had with Natalee and much more but still he was released a suspect. Highly unusual!! Is it a coincidence that after she left this was presented to the court and he was denied his money? We could write a book about all the lies.

      Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

    151. Brie on June 11th, 2007 6:38 pm

      Paulus is the sly, cunning one, the one that hides behind the bushes.

    152. Brie on June 11th, 2007 6:51 pm

      I would like to know why the statement, “you will never find her” and then follow it up “wanna bet”. Joran’s a suspect, why can’t he be brought in for questioning as to what does that statement signify. You’ve said it too much and we want to know what it means. It’s ongoing torture for the family and her loved one’s.

    153. Brie on June 11th, 2007 7:30 pm

      Chocolate….it was blood. How come we all of sudden have chocolate on the roof of the interior of the car, just after Natalee disappeared?

      Well, the number of immigrants is increasing in Aruba…as of July they will have 30,000 more people from Latin America and the Carribean…it won’t be fit for man nor beast. Not that it is now, but it will only get worse.

      Joran, I’m sure is loosing his control on the sland..Arubans don’t want him around and about, and the drug lords will see him as mince meat. So much for his private little paradise.

    154. Brie on June 11th, 2007 7:32 pm


    155. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 9:17 pm

      I would imagine by now there are so many involved in one way of another it won’t be long until the fat lady slips up and accidently sings out something that will implicate someone so far down the line from the fat lady that he/she does not realize he/she has ‘broken the case’ wide open.


      I didn’t know that dilapidated, hose bag,

      pipe clogger Anita Van der sloot

      could sing!?!??

      Well, I’ll be a Scared Monkey’s uncle…

      Ya learn something new everyday. -j4n

    156. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 9:42 pm


      What is up with Joran’s wuzlick liar of a father?

      I would think most people would be embarrassed

      to have that lame @ss, sniveling, groveling,

      serial lying, child molester for a dad! Hey

      Joran, don’t you wish you could return him somewhere

      and get some money for it er sumpin’? Yeah, well tuff $h–

      You’re stuck with Paulus Van der sloot the

      Aruban Sex Predatory Weasel…

      Enjoy your evening,

      you moist lint ball.

      BOYCOTT ARUBA -j4n

    157. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 9:49 pm


      ARUBA – Nobody is going!

      They heard what happened to Natalee Ann Holloway.


      Take a look!

      Seeing is believing:


    158. Brie on June 11th, 2007 9:53 pm

      Just a thought, if anyone is interested in sending up their own balloons for Natalee…see A warehouse at discount prices. I know I am going to send some up. Up, up and away, hopefully people will read what they say. A Joran supports’s front yard.

    159. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 10:04 pm

      It takes only one little part of a story to change to affect a different outcome.
      Joran and the K2′S, I don’t believe are worthy of an Island wide cover up that would help to destroy an economy. Throw in Paulus and I still don’t think it is enough. What if you throw in: Keon and Sanders. Could be. Throw in Alexander Gottenbos. Getting stickier. Geoffrey Cromvoirt. Getting stickier. Michael Dompig. Guido Wever. Now you have a lot of prominent fathers whose sons could be nothing but predators and rapist. If Natalee’s death was the result of all these players; now that could be like an infectious disease that the ATHTA would definitely want to quiet down.
      Don’t hate the player: hate the game. See how many female tourist you can bed down.
      We went to the Lighthouse: Malmok, where Keon lives is less than a kilometer away from the lighthouse.
      She wanted to see sharks. “Shark Fest”
      Who are the fathers?
      Paulus, Joran’s father is a lawyer.
      Alexander, Keon and Sander’s father has a prominent insurance company.
      Geoff’s father Willem owns A SECURITY BUSINESS and installs security cameras at the hotels and casinos.
      Gerald, Michael’s father is now the Police Commissioner.
      His father is a cousin to the two Kalpoe suspects
      Van der Straaten is Joran’s godfather.
      Van der Straaten was the former police commissioner.
      The bouncer who commited suicide is related to Gerald through his second wife.
      Guido Wever is related to Arlene Shipper spokes person for the ATHTA
      He may also be related to the Funeral Director Wever who Paulus helped set up a crematorium.
      You can add Anita and Nidra to the list.
      And there are probably a few more up the food chain that remain unknown.
      A lot of names would get thrown around that future tourist may not want to travel to a one safe and happy island.
      No one expected Beth to act so quickly.
      Joran is going down because there are too many other prominent people involved to prosecute. Natalee’s body has wounds that cannot be explained. That is the truth he can’t tell. It happened at Koen’s.
      Michael; “I saw Joran, Deepak and Keon on the Gottenbos boat”. Sanders: “Joran has never been on Keon’s boat”. (My comment Michael’s last name is very appropriate)
      The four leave Carlos N Charlie’s and head over to Choose a Name. Maybe Deepak saw the bouncer to pick up some drugs. Who gave Natalee the poison wine of Bachcus. It may have been from a bad batch. They now head towards the California Lighthouse to
      Keon’s house in Malmok. Keon has a party going on. There a lot of people there both male and female. They drugged Natalee and all are involved with the assault. Sex we all had sex with Natalee. But some of the females especially one may have become jealous. While Natalee is unconscious one of the female guests becomes jealous because her boy friend also had sex with Natalee. In a rage the girls stabs Natalee. Joran is told to get Natalee out of there. They put her in Deepak’s car and head over to a waiting Paulus.
      This could explain the blood in Deepak’s car.(chocolate)This may have been the first time a female tourist was brought to one of these parties and something went wrong; like a stabbing..
      I don’t know how to finish this but I believe the priest and Rene are involved.
      Why the priest. I’m what you would consider religious and a good Christian, but let’s face it a church survives on donations. Poor boxes. Pay a visit and make a donation.
      Reduced tourism is also reduced church income.

      I’m going to go way outside the box. Natalee is taken to the hospital and dies. The hospital incinerator is right there. Rene works there.

    160. 10061906 on June 11th, 2007 10:53 pm

      What was contained in the nine page statement from Koen that was never made public?
      Why did the police want another statement from him?
      Why did his father refuse?
      Why did the police say okay. we won’t ask him again?
      Why does he pee himself?
      Why does he sleep with his parents?
      Why did they sell their home and get off Aruba?
      Why did Geoff shut up when asked by that girl concerning the Natalee Holloway case?
      Why can’t Joran get his lies straight?
      Why can’t Michael Dompig and Sanders Gottenbos agree on the same question?
      Why did Guido leave Aruba?
      Why is it rumored that Willem von Cromvoirt has left Aruba?
      Why has Van der Straaten left Aruba?
      Why haven’t we heard a peep out of the new police commissioner DeWitt?
      Where has Steve Cohen gone?
      Who is paying Tacopina?
      Why is Paulus still on the Island?
      (He can’t get a job anywhere else. He has only been approved by the bar on Aruba. As of now he can’t practise law anywhere else.)
      Why did Tacopina take such a high profile case that will get him nowhere?
      Tacopina can’t represent anyone on the island because he has not been approved by the bar on Aruba. He can only represent someone in NY State .
      Was Koen’s boat in the water the night Natalee disappeared. Too many conflicting stories. In the water. On the shore. In the drive way. Not operational. Well which is it?
      What is the Sh-t if they find on the girl, Joran could get 15 years.?
      That is the maximum for murder in Aruba. (stab wounds?)

    161. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 11:22 pm

      “Why did Tacopina take such a high profile case that will get him nowhere?”

      Because he’s a disgusting little mafiaso media whore,

      with no conscience whatsoever.

      Damn good lawyer, but his soul

      looks like the inside of a building that an Iraq

      Suicide Bomber just launched his load in.

      > Joe Tacopina is one awful human being.

    162. Brie on June 11th, 2007 11:27 pm

      As Paulus said, I can’t say what happened too many innocent people could get hurt. Who the people at the party? And why would the priest be too busy to talk to Jug, a servant of the church, too busy, got that many sinners.

      Ask the godfather, I think he gave the orders, a police commissioner, who would have better access to any and all records.

      Somebody murdered and Paulus says innocent people could get hurt. That is not papa perverts decision to make!!! The first obligation is to Natalee’s family.

      Paulus and Anita would view this completely different if it was one of their sons. Wouldn’t they now!!!

    163. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 11:30 pm

      What is the Sh-t if they find on the girl, Joran could get 15 years.?
      That is the maximum for murder in Aruba. (stab wounds?)


      Possibly, but I think not.

      It was a gunshot to the forehead. I think they were trying

      to make it look like a drug hit on a beach late at night.

      …but with the unique combo of a raped young

      teen girl’s body,

      and a shot to the head… not even a liar the size

      and scale of the child molesting Paulus Van der sloot

      could explain a SNOW JOB that large!!! So the body

      was made to vanish into the night.

      (see Paulus Van der sloots ATM

      transactions for more information)



      ARUBA (death trap)

    164. disgustedmom on June 11th, 2007 11:35 pm

      Very good questions, 1006.

      Who is Rene and how does this person play into the case as far as we know? That’s a new name for me.

      While we’re asking questions…what about this one….Joran says he called a couple guy friends to go with him with the ‘girls he met’ before he called Deepak. According to Joran these guys said they could NOT go out…but what if that’s a lie…what if they said, ‘thanks pimp’ and DID go out? I would assume these guys were checked out for alibi by ALE, but I can’t assume that since they haven’t done such a bangup job. Anyone know if these guys were questioned?

      Brie….what you mention about Joran saying ‘they will never find her’ and ‘wanna bet’…..that is quite troublesome! I had never heard that! What could he have meant by that if he didn’t know what became of her?

      Some have brought up the ATM withdrawals from PVDS’s account. I have wondered about this….assumed at first he was getting gambling money….but let me throw this out there in case anyone has any details on the ATM thing…..deep breath because here I go again with what a psychic said….it was said Nat was in the car with Paulus when this was done, and the ATM’s were of the kind where you get out of the car to use them (not drive ups), and that the first attempt at withdrawing didn’t go through, only the second did. Now if anyone knows if any part of that is true -like if the first one didn’t go through or if the ATMs were walk ups- please let me know! I’m curious about psychic stuff.

    165. Carpe Noctem on June 11th, 2007 11:50 pm
    166. Brie on June 11th, 2007 11:53 pm

      Why was it necessary for Joran to tell Natalee and her friends that he was a foreign exchange student staying at the Holiday Inn? So Natalee would be assured she would be returned because he was also staying there. Lying from the very beginning, for his own selfish reasons.

      And the lie, on the beach, if there was a beach, I can’t stay with you, I have to go home I have school the next day.
      You call the Holiday Inn home. I don’t believe anyway, that foreign exchange students stay in hotels.

    167. Brie on June 12th, 2007 12:09 am

      164…disgustedmom…Joran made the statement at the police station…if was said to him..where is the girl and Joran said you will never find her…yes we will..and Joran responded by saying “wanna bet”. I’m not sure now who did the questioning but I believe it was Dennis Jacobs or Dompig. I’m thinking more towards Dompig.

      Can you only image being questioned by the police and you say to them “wanna bet”?

    168. Brie on June 12th, 2007 12:11 am

      Yeah, I wanna bet, your gonna get yours!!!

    169. 10061906 on June 12th, 2007 12:20 am

      164 Rene was the person found dead in the cemetery. His head was almost cut off by a machete that his wife was supposed to have used on him. He worked part time at the Hospital incinerator and the industrial incinerator. He was killed I believe on June 18, 2005. There was no obituary. There was one for “Pitbull”.
      The one that Joran asked was a friend named Jaime. Jaime said he had to work the next day. If true lucky him.
      Paulus said he made a deposit at the bank from the pultry Joran winnings. The ATM at the CBA in Noord, near the church cemetery is a walk up.
      The walls of the cemetery are very low. Maybe only five to six feet high. The gates do not look as if they are locked.
      Its possible that Natalee was in the car already dead. He was withdrawing payoff money for someone to hid Natalee. Its only about five minutes from the Van der Sloot’s to the police station. The church and cemetery are across the road . About 300 yards from the cemetery is the bank. About 400 yards from the bank is the indo and lion’s den.
      166. Read Jorans book. That is how he “got the girls.”
      Disgustedmom. Did you see the pet cemetery photos?

      Carpe: I said last year that Natalee may have been killed by either van der Straaten or Dennis Jacobs with a gun shot. If van der Straaten’s gun it would have been for blackmail.

    170. Carpe Noctem on June 12th, 2007 12:23 am

      “Famous Last Words”

      Paulus Van der sloot

      Father of Joran The Aruban Rapist/Murderer

      CBS “Early Show Interview” 8/2005

      But the van der Sloots agree with Holloway’s family on this: The investigation was botched from the beginning and, they add, that they also desperately want the mystery solved.

      “If Natalee is never found,” Paul says, “it will always, always hit our lives, not only the lives of the Holloways, but also our lives.”


      You SHO got that right, loser!

      It’ll haunt the Van der sloot family
      of Natalee Ann Holloway killers until
      they go to their graves.


    171. Carpe Noctem on June 12th, 2007 12:27 am

      We will never forget her. This is Natalee’s house.

    172. Roy on June 12th, 2007 1:41 am

      1906….. This Rene character is a new name to me as well. I remember vaguely the details of his death but never made a possible correlation. Iffn the ATM withdrawals are real, and Natalee was indeed injured from “something bad” happening, and a 4:00AM pickup is real, couldn’t the ATM withdrawals have been made for the purpose of paying for a trip to the emergency room. The extent of her injuries, I don’t know, but certainly could have caused her to miss her flight. After that, it could also be possible that Natalee was taken to his home to await the arrival of her parents and would explain the Medjet coming to Aruba. And iffn something worse happened that day, it could explain the runaround the Twitty’s received that night….iot remove Natalee from their home. This new character you’re introducing/re-introducing would seem to unravel a few knots.

    173. Roy on June 12th, 2007 2:07 am

      Also: Iffn Natalee was in their home, someone had to sit with her while the Sloot kids were in school and Paulus was at work….When Satish woke up that afternoon, the first thing he did was to ask his brother of Natalee’s condition. Meaning that Natalee was alive at one point and that his own brother should have known her health status. So, with Deepak not having to go to work till 4:00PM, it seems likely that Deepak would have/could have stayed with her. I’m not sure who, as I’ve seen a couple of names thrown around but someone sure as heck chewed Deepak’s ass out that first night…….All scenarios seem to minimize his participation to that of a “driver” but he sure as heck did something wrong.

    174. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 2:31 am

      No we won’t forget Natalee……EVER!

      She couldn’t hurt anyone and the men of Aruba manhandled her….they hurt her and they killed her but that wasn’t enough no, they hid her body and played this sick game of raising our hopes only to dash them time and again.

    175. Richard on June 12th, 2007 6:23 am

      I still think that one reason no trace of Natalee has been found on Aruba is that she may have been taken off Aruba.

    176. Brie on June 12th, 2007 7:32 am

      Natalee could of been taken off of Aruba, very easily. But, of course that scenario would never be mentioned by the ALE or anyone else there. If we can’t seem to find her anywhere, why isn’t that a possibility. Which could mean she is still alive! Since, no one really seems to know, it is likely. Happens all the time, more times than I would even like to think.

    177. Vicki on June 12th, 2007 7:52 am

      I think the more this loser opens his big fat trap,the more we will find out. He cant go back to LIERUBA cause he fears for his life….and noone likes him in Holland…he needs to watch his back, cause he knows what happened to Natalee. Thats why he was biting his tongue in jail so he wouldnt talk. It saved his life[useless as it is]but not for long…

    178. disgustedmom on June 12th, 2007 9:49 am

      #167 Brie….I can’t imagine the arrogance that a stupid kid would tell a cop ‘you wanna bet’ …even more unimaginable would be anyone at all telling a cop while being questioned about a missing person ‘you’ll never find her’. I don’t get this at all!

      The only people I’ve ever heard say things like this is serial killers who are already in jail for their crime admitting-or lying- that they have killed others and bragging that they aren’t going to tell the cops where the other bodies are, like the killer’s last hurrah to in your face the authorities who locked him up…they also use it to plea bargain to get off death row… and others involved in crimes or knowing about crimes will often use this ploy to get a lesser sentence or turn state’s evidence and not get locked up at all. The object is to tell the cops they are needed to solve the case. but this makes no sense where Joran is concerned since he claims to not know anything.

      Very confusing statements he made.

    179. disgustedmom on June 12th, 2007 10:12 am


      About Paulus and his making that ridiculously pitiful deposit to his bank of his part of Joran’s winnings (when by other accounts Joran lost money that night)….if he had done this by ATM then why does he say he did it the next day AT the actual bank?

      From P’s June 23, statement….

      “To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
      Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work. The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
      08.00 hours..I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
      to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
      having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
      at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
      I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.
      To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping
      or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
      remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank.
      At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the
      money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in
      the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately
      500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he
      had taken over my place in the tournament.”


      You know, I have to wonder if he was so broke he had to make such a small deposit so fast that he had to leave work twice to try to do it! I can’t put my head around believing that was really the reason he had to leave work twice. He provides a witness name who saw him there the second time, but so what? That doesn’t mean the only reason for going out was to go to the bank.

      Curious to me that the cops asked him if he made any other stops along the way. Of course, Paulus can’t remember, so I’ll take that as a, “No, unles you saw me, and then Yeah, but *insert lie here*.”

    180. Libby on June 12th, 2007 10:15 am

      #176…I wish you were right in that Natalee could still be alive. However, based on all the statements that have been made and charges brought against people, it is unlikely. The two security guards were charged with kidnapping, rape and murder, Paulus made the statement no corpse no case (before it was made known she was missing), when Deepak was questioned, he said he does not know where her “body” is, not where “she” is but her “body”, Guido Wewver was arrested for heavy battery and the assisted murder of Natalee. I could go on and on. All signs point to the fact that she is no longer with us.

      That is what ticks me off about this entire case. Look at all these statements that we have…even from officials that say she was kidnapped, heavily battered, raped and murdered…yet they do nothing. If they know she was kidnapped, battered, raped and murdered…they have evidence of some sort otherwise, how would they know that?! They all know what happened, who did it and probably where Natalee is.

      Boycott Aruba!

      Where is Minnesota Dad these days? Hope he is alright.

    181. disgustedmom on June 12th, 2007 10:51 am

      Choose A Name bar burned down? What?

    182. Pearl on June 12th, 2007 10:57 am

      #176 – As much as I would love to believe that, it breaks my heart that I must also reckon with the fact that perhaps one good guy could be fooled…(though VERY UNLIKELY for those agents on the island who KNEW the CLIMATE and the culture there – to be fooled.. VERY UNLIKELY).

      But a TEAM of good guys, – to be fooled?

      That’s not likely…not THOSE guys.
      Not THAT team. And there is so much more, right there in the case that simply cannot be ignored that speaks loudly about WHAT happened to Natalee Holloway.

      Look at what those beloved FBI agents DID and HOW they did it.
      That should tell you plenty.
      You have to look for traces of them, because they won’t seek the lime light, nor do they put themselves in any position to garner attention. This is perhaps just one of their many incredible qualities that makes them such a precious gem that we sure as heck rely upon, when faced with the barbaric cruelty from hell, that Beth and Dave were hurled into.

      It had to have broken their hearts to tell Beth and Dave – what they had to tell them on June 10, particularly after what they were FORCED to “OBSERVE”…while watching the barbaric, insidiousness unfold before their eyes.
      Do you know what that had to be doing to them?
      Do you know what that did to them INSIDE?

      Go back and READ what those fantastic, incredible FBI agents DID and what they SAW and WITNESSED.
      It may seem so small, but does it EVER say a MOUTHFUL about what those agents had to put up with and the level of disgust and outrage they HAD to be feeling inside as they watched a contemptable display of dishonesty unfold off the suffering painful anguish of a little girl and her beloved family…Americans – that they swore to defend and protect, while monsters were TYING THEIR HANDS.
      Do you think they are going to just “let that go”?

      Yes, the FBI’s hands were most definitely bound and tied, in circles that the ALE and Aruban officials placed upon them and they were forced to watch the most barbaric display of contempt for justice that they probably had not seen in a long time.

      But that did not close their beautiful red, white and blue eyes, their ears, their hands, their minds…and by golly, it did NOT CLOSE THEIR HEARTS.

      This I can promise you, because if you’ve ever known people who do any type of work in defending and protecting children or the public – in ANY capacity, you will know they DO TAKE IT PERSONALLY when a child suffers, when a child is tormented and brutalized as Natalee was and as her family continues to be.

      Observing can be such a beautiful thing, particularly when it is the only way a child’s voice can SPEAK her truth.

      Those FBI agents are the guardians of Natalee’s truth, as are her loving parents, her courageous family, and ALL journalists – photo, news, media who stood by, and continue to stand by Natalee’s side, who continue to honor Natalee’s truth, who continue to fight for Natalee’s right to justice.

      They are NOT going to go away.
      It’s PERSONAL now.

      I find it very unlikely that THOSE agents gave incorrect information to Natalee’s family concerning Natalee.
      Extremely unlikely.

      So many have broken hearts in looking upon those images of Dave in that garbage pit, desperately trying to find traces of his beloved Natalee.

      So many have broken hearts over the image of Beth collapsing to the ground as two men stood by her side trying to hold her crushed heart and bludgeoned spirit up.


      Look closely into the eyes of ALL those who stood by Dave and Beth and their family, and you will find a level of compassion and kindness, along side a level of profound courage, and honor to their duty to defend and protect their fellow Americans.

      They will not abandon Natalee.
      I know some continue to suggest that “nothing” is being done.

      Don’t buy that when it gets sold.

      They are out there, doing their jobs.
      They never left her.
      They were always by her side, right from the beginning of this horrific cruelty.
      And there they stood, and there they remain.

      They – all of them, the writers, the FBI agents, the investigators, the journalists, the photographers and ALL who sought her truth ….there they will continue to stay until it is spoken.

      You too, JORAN and the gang who lost their conscience a long time ago.

      Aruba owes Natalee’s family and the United States of America ANSWERS:




      #178 – disgustedmom… actually, those contradictions in statements fit very well, the sociopathic profile bestowed upon none other than Joran, to a “T”.

      Those FBI agents sure knew what they were talking about when it came to sizing up JORAN.

      I wonder what their assessments are of PAULUS?

    183. Pearl on June 12th, 2007 11:06 am

      Exactly, Libby…180

      AND THERE IS MORE … keep re-reading those transcripts, Libby.

      This is the most contemptable bunch our eyes have ever seen.

      No conscience, no honor, no integrity, NO JUSTICE, NO TRUTH = barbaric, uncivilized dangerous circumstances that cry out not only for Natalee’s justice and protection, but the defense and protection of the good people of Aruba who do not want this contemptuous bunch running their island.


      They messed with the WRONG SOLDIERS.

      Keep having faith in our FBI to make ammends for Natalee.
      There are those out there who would love for us to not be patient, to lose our faith, to give up hope.



      ALL POWER TO THE GOOD GUYS, THE OBSERVERS and all those in Aruba and the Netherlands who are concerned with honor, integrity, justice and truth!




    184. Pearl on June 12th, 2007 11:21 am

      digustedmom – #179 … do not follow Paulus with where HE wants to lead you. Don’t let him be in charge anymore.

      He slithers like a snake in his use of words and details.

      That’s part of his hideous distraction methods, that he uses to pull you away from where NATALEE’S TRUTH LIES.

      He thinks he is so meticulously clever with the filth and abomination of his lies.

      His meticulous attentions to devious little details will be exposed by a LITTLE DEFENSELESS GIRL’S TRUTH.

      Imagine: little 110 pound Natalee bringing down the BIG TWO HUNDRED POUND bucket of sweat and all that he stands for, along with the “sometimes poor” and yet chillingly attentive to detailed “memory” encased in the steely callous heart of a man who utters these words, IN THE FIRST DAY – BEFORE THE WORLD EVEN KNOWS BELOVED NATALEE IS MISSING: “No corpse, no case”.

      Natalee’s truth WILL BE SPOKEN.
      And there is nothing that two hundred pounds of malice, cowardice, weakness, and cold heartedness can do to stop her!

      She is Beth’s daughter!
      She is Dave’s daughter!
      And like her parents, her voice cannot be silenced!

    185. Pearl on June 12th, 2007 11:35 am






    186. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 5:22 pm

      Hey guys……the preview this week of the *Haunting Evidence* is getting ALOT of air play! The 15 second ad has the female of the group walking on a beach saying Natalee’s running and crying. I was suprised when i first heard they would take on Natalee’s case and go there, what date did they film on Aruba?

    187. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 5:32 pm

      I didn’t hear of it till it was in the can. Where did they stay on the island? How were they received by the locals?
      Any drinks at Carlos and Charlies??

    188. Brie on June 12th, 2007 5:39 pm

      According to the latest broadcast, a man with access to more than enough equipment and resources has volunteered to assist Texas Equasearch in the search for Natalee. There are going to be two ships used. The normal fee for use of these ships is approximately $200,000 a day. This kind gentlemen is donating their services for up to 10 days and vows to find Natalee if she’s anywhere near the locations they look.

      So…so many people want to help. Thank you kind man. His name was not mentioned.

    189. Observer on June 12th, 2007 5:46 pm

      Tourists are welcome,but if you dont like the way they break there own laws to protect a couple of raping murderer’s..Go Home!!!

    190. 10061906 on June 12th, 2007 5:55 pm

      Just a follow up.
      Rene Michel van Heyningen – partially decapitated man found at cemetery on 6-18-05. Rumored to run the incinerator at the Refinery. It is also reported that he ran the incinerator at Oduber Hospital. Yesenia Castillo, his wife(?) is reportedly being held in KIA in conjunction with his murder.

      Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan – 25 year old bouncer from Choose a Name Bar that was found on 4-5-06 in Guadirikiri cave. His body was mutilated, crucified, and set on fire. Reportedly he died of an overdose of cocaine. It is believed that Pitbull is the brother-in-law of Dompig through Dompig’s first wife

    191. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 5:59 pm

      Wow Brie……who broadcasted it? Its wonderful news!~

    192. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 6:40 pm

      Wait a minute……Pitbull is related to Dompig too???

      Or was thru marriage….whoa

    193. Brie on June 12th, 2007 6:51 pm

      191…Hi Mayan, I found the article under Texas Equasearch. It is wonderful news…I hope they are successful.

    194. Janet on June 12th, 2007 7:18 pm

      192. mayan_moons

      Beth Twitty
      TWITTY: … So you know, they’re all very connected on that island. It’s hard to find someone who’s not a relative or a cousin.
      ‘Rita Cosby Live & Direct’

    195. Brie on June 12th, 2007 7:22 pm

      Heyliger only got 5 years for the death of Pitbull. Uncomprendable!

    196. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 7:43 pm

      Yeah Janet….every single one of em, related by birth or marriage! In every possible conbination too i’m sure.

    197. Brie on June 12th, 2007 7:57 pm

      Can you only imagine what it had to of been like for Beth and Jug to walk into that hornet’s nest? And still they were able to hold their composure.! No help, no co-operation, so many obstacles in their way. Their hearts torn out, over and over again. False hopes,over and over again, no outlets, lies over and over again. And she even had to apologize. I have never seen such evil in my entire life.

    198. Brie on June 12th, 2007 7:58 pm

      Does anyone know anymore about Haunting Evidence?

    199. Maggie on June 12th, 2007 8:11 pm

      It was my understanding Beth’s attorney Helen Lejuez was Dompig’s first wife. Maybe I am wrong. I was thinking Beth said one time Dompig told her not to go to her., I also remember Helen on one of the talk shows saying something like the air was let out of her tires. Helen told Beth, that Straten had been involved in a cover up on the island before.

    200. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 8:40 pm

      I remember that Maggie but never heard Pitbull was related to anybody before today.

    201. Janet on June 12th, 2007 8:51 pm

      199. It was my understanding Beth’s attorney Helen Lejuez was Dompig’s first wife … Maggie
      Art Wood
      Letter to Attorney General
      November 1, 2005
      … On October 20, 2005, Gerald Dompig advised me that Beth Twitty could not have made a worse choice in her selection of Helen Lejuez as her Aruban attorney. He said that Helen was a former prosecutor,who, was forced out of office by mental problems. He made several disparaging comments concerning Mrs Lejuez, which I believe were unethical. HE FAILED TO MENTION THAT MRS. LEJEZ HAD REPRESENTING HIS WIFE IN A DIVORCE ACTION AGAINST HIM, which may explain his dislike of her …
      Arthur E. Wood
      Signed and in agreement
      Dave Holloway
      Robin Holloway
      Beth Twitty
      Jug Twitty

    202. Richard on June 12th, 2007 8:51 pm

      Libby (#180) … If Natalee were taken off the island of Aruba alive, as I think is a distinct possibility, it doesn’t necessarily follow that she is still alive.

      We believe that Amy Bradley is, and she’s been missing since 1998. However, it could go either way.

      Yes, we know that Aruba has been giving us all sorts of sound bites about Natalee being dead. Jan van der Straaten: “I’ve seen the evidence and you haven’t.”

      (Curious that such evidence has not been presented, and that it hasn’t gotten any convictions.)

      Everyone has been emphatically saying that she is dead.

      And perhaps she is.

      Perhaps, though, when there is no crime scene, no body that we know of, and when a few punk kids manage to pull things off in such a short time … perhaps there is reason to keep our minds open to other possibilities. That’s all I ask.

    203. sparrow on June 12th, 2007 9:25 pm

      You all have some good ideas and theories. The ATM trip at 4 in the morning still has my curiosity up. Who the hell goes to the ATM at that time of the morning or night. joran, deepak, paulus and satish should all be worried, because I don’t think this Rene mans machete killing was just a crazy wife killing her husband. He gets whacked with a machete, and his wife gets only 5 years>>>sounds like a Mafia Island. That’s right Joe T. represents joran. Now when joran said the things about Natalee, not going to find her, and the wanna bet>>he knew damn well he could say what he wanted and not regret a word, and not get in trouble. joran’s buddy the thumb-sucker, pee pee, mommas boy koen, he’s just as involved as joran & co. Somebody, please tell me who they think Shango is/was. Could he be the priest, or could it be anita? Some-days I think the priest, and then other I’m sure it’s anita. I still cry about Natalee. I wish with all my heart I could find her, or help put all the pieces together. I want this murdering gang to pay, and I mean really pay for what they did the night they murderered Natalee.

    204. sparrow on June 12th, 2007 9:36 pm

      The ATM visit that time of the night had to do with deposing of Natalee. I don’t believe they tried to get medical help for Natalee. They didn’t have sense enough to do that. They were all too busy covering up a lot of sins by a lot of people. This whole thing could involve some really scary, ugly stuff. I just want to bring Natalee home, and have the people responsible for this tragedy to be punished. That’s only right, that they pay for what they did to Natalee.

    205. Brie on June 12th, 2007 9:46 pm

      But just think, how many times have they told us she is dead?
      Where is the evidence, Straaten? Public statements are made and that is all there is to it. Because we said so. We can’t find a body so how do we know she is dead. It’s a vicious circle and as someone said here, they removed the last link.
      I don’t believe that one person connected with the ALE and the government as ever brought up the subject.

      Have we ever seen or heard of anything of this magnitude?

      I think the FBI needs to start breaking down doors. We certainly have just cause.

      She’s dead, how many times have we told you and your never going to find her. So just go away. That’s the way they see it. Just a pity.

      I sometimes think of Natalee’s friends and what memories they have of their vacation in Aruba. I hope for them they had good times to remind them of Natalee. Unfortunately, the nightmares are also part of those memories. Thank God we’re not missing even more from Mountain Brooke .

    206. diverboy on June 12th, 2007 9:58 pm

      Deepak and Satish…..see how the ground work is done? while you dummies are busy thinking how you are going to spend the $250 you think you are going to get from you lawsuit…that’s right assholes….the lawyers are taking it all…of course, the thought hasnt crossed your inbred minds…plus…you are not getting a dime, in fact… are you going to pay what you owe? the Sloots and all the folks that you brown nosed to be with the white crowd are going to put you where you belong for being stupid. of course, according to Joran….you might be some murdering fools after all. Thank goodness Paulus is the epitomy of justice and will never send you bozos to the big house to save his own son…………think………think morons…someone has to pay…think..who can satisfy the pressure? Both of you idiots or Joran? think Deepak…and by the way..tell antonio to come up with a good reason you and homo are lying…..sleep tight…..Paulus owns your ass dummy…all along……think…..why is Joran saying this? are you and the marica brother of yours the ones?

    207. sparrow on June 12th, 2007 10:15 pm

      deepak, the stupid one. deepak, are you thinking about all the times joran has told the world that you, deepak, did something to Natalee. Not that joran did something to Natalee, but deepak.

    208. Maggie on June 12th, 2007 10:18 pm

      ty Janet, I knew it was something to do with Dompig.. wasn’t for sure on that.. Dave states in his book that she told beth Straten was involved in a cover up before. and yes can’t trust none of the players in this case.

    209. Brie on June 12th, 2007 10:33 pm

      205…I was relating to 202…possibly not on Aruba.

      Joran says, don’t blame the players, blame the game. If the game is dangerous ,why are you then a player?

    210. Brie on June 12th, 2007 10:54 pm

      I was just wondering, does anyone know how long a scuba diver can stay down and how deep they dive?

    211. buster on June 12th, 2007 10:55 pm

      #192 If you put two dogs on an island in several years they would all be related

    212. Libby on June 12th, 2007 11:19 pm

      #202 Richard, I wish Natalee were alive. I’d hate to think of what she has gone through over the past couple years if she is alive, but finding her alive would be wonderful. The possibilities of her being alive though are slim to none. I only say that though because of all the statements and so called charges and arrests. If she were taken off the island, they wouldn’t refer to her as a corpse or a “body”. “Something bad happened”…they have made that very clear. And, the fact that they keep charging people with murder and heavy battery, makes me believe otherwise. Either way, those responsible for the crimes against Natalee need to be punished. I don’t think we will ever see that though. Like someone else said, Aruba feels, she is dead…get over it. They don’t care.

      We are NOT going to get over it Aruba!!!!!! Do the right thing! Arrest Paulus, Joran, the K brothers and all those responsible for the crimes against her and her family. We are NOT going away until you do.

      Boycott Aruba!

    213. Carpe Noctem on June 12th, 2007 11:26 pm

      The Murdering – Serial Raping Deepak and Satish Kalpoe

      lawsuit is going to get spiked into the ground.

      Mark my words, please. Not

      only will Joran Van der sloots accomplices in

      Natalee Ann Holloway’s murder and rape,

      get absolutely nothing… Neither will

      their POS, money grubbing lawyers.

      It’ll be fun watching

      them be shot down!

      ARUBA, Where death lives.

      Gotta love it! -j4n

    214. 10061906 on June 12th, 2007 11:34 pm

      Again everything is pure speculation. Maybe Paulus left work to check on a Natalee at his home. Maybe to make sure Natalee was removed. Maybe he still owed money from the night before. Maybe he checked with the priest to make sure her body was placed in safe keeping for a while. Paulus works downtown but the bank the church and his house are minutes away from each other. Remember Paulus knows his way around the church. Joran went to kinder garden or pre-school there. (St. Ana Church, school and cemetery.)

      At this juncture did the van der sloots still have a live in maid?

      21: Shango Says:
      June 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
      To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind.
      Did anyone google this?
      Smoke Signals was a movie: An original short story titled The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven. The title was changed to Smoke Signals. Two Indians set out on a trip for one to get his dead father’s (Ashes). I never heard of it until now. Has anyone seen the movie?

      Who was Shango? Speculation again some say it was…

      The messengers were his motorcycle police buddies.
      The facts are he is gone and so is Shango..

    215. Carpe Noctem on June 12th, 2007 11:40 pm

      It seems all the Islands there

      are becoming radio-active and dangerous.

      Cancel any bookings today!!!!

      Check it out!


      Snorkler injured by rock throwers

      WILLEMSTAD – A Dutch tourist was injured by a rock that was thrown from the coast, while he was snorkeling at Vaersenbaai on Saturday afternoon. He was tended to on board of the boat that took the snorklers out to sea and is doing better by now. The suspect was with a group of boys that from the coast were throwing rocks.

      The victim and his partner that are staying in the Marriott Hotel decided to go on a snorkeling trip with the Caribbean Sea Sports. The snorklers did hear splashes and thought at first that one of the snorklers wanted to draw attention by splattering the water. But the splashes turned out to be rocks being thrown from the more than 10 meter high rocky coast. One of the rocks hit the snorkler in question on the head. The captain of the boat that was keeping an eye on the snorklers took immediate action, by hauling the victim on board and taking care of the wound. It could have been much more serious.

      The victim and his partner do not blame the incidents on the diving school, but “we want them to carry a good impression of the island along, so we offered them a free introductory dive and a boat trip to Kenepa”.
      After the incident, Caribbean Sea Sports called the police and coastguard, but didn’t get much cooperation with these. All the boys that were throwing rocks were wearing red shirts. The diving school hopes to use this in order to run down the rock throwers.

      Nobody over there wants to cooperate with law enforcement.

      Why is that???

    216. mayan_moons on June 12th, 2007 11:58 pm

      Can’t argue with that logic buster!

    217. Carpe Noctem on June 13th, 2007 12:00 am

      Attention Chinese People

      Do Not Go To Aruba – They are trying

      to hoodwink you!


      Please read about how they treated

      Natalee Holloway a young innocent

      American teenager that was celebrating

      her high-school graduation.

      The Aruban death trap. They are equal

      opportunity killers! Please steer clear

      and spare your family members the pain and

      heartache. Thank you!

      ….Amigoe News

      June 11, 2007

      Trade mission to attract Chinese tourists

      ORANJESTAD – The most important objectives of an Aruban trade delegation that went to Beijing this week is the attraction of tourists and the establishment of an international commercial center with high-quality Chinese products, here in Aruba .

      Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, Minister Nilo Swaen of Economic Affairs and Finance, and Agustin Vrolijk, director of Foreign Relations Administration are part of the delegation. Other members of the delegation are: Myrna Jansen, director of Aruba Tourism Authority, Peter Steinmetz of Aruba Airport Authority, Alfonso Boekhoudt of Aruba Ports Authority, Greg Peterson of Free Zone Aruba, Frendsel Giel of Aruba Investment Bank, Rien Schoon of Aruba Stevedoring Company, Gideon Blaauw of Ernst & Young and businessman René Kan.

      The delegation stays in Beijing for one week. They will talk to the Chinese aviation authorities. The young nouveau riche of China is very fond of traveling and the market is very large. The delegation will also talk to tour operators and travel agents.

      Vrolijk says that China is interested in establishing a commercial center in Aruba for the region and for South-America. Up till now, Dubai is the only country that has such commercial center. Aruba would love to welcome such commercial center especially in the Free Zone. Aruba is thinking of high-quality high-tech products.

      The delegation will talk with harbour authorities in Shanghai about ocean transportation. The programme is put together by the Chinese trade delegation that was in Aruba for orientation conversations a few months ago.

      The delegation will also visit an elementary school. A large number of elementary schools are going to represent the participating countries in the Olympic Games in Beijing . To participate, the schools need to have sufficient information about the countries in question. The delegation returns to Aruba via Amsterdam on Sunday, June 24th. The group will arrive in Aruba on Tuesday morning.

      When will they put an end

      to the Aruban Van der sloot

      / Kalpoe — Natalee Holloway killers?

      People want to know, because they seem

      to have no plans whatsoever, to deal with

      these serial rapist-murderers that still roam

      the island free?!? Their plan appears

      to import tourists from other countries that have not

      heard about the murder. I don’t think that is a plan!

      That is a loop-hole, and it is not fair to anybody’s

      family regardless of which country they come from.

      Justice 4 Natalee Holloway!!!

      Why do rapists/murderers go free & continue

      to stalk the island of Aruba? Everybody should

      continue to ask these questions. -j4n

    218. mayan_moons on June 13th, 2007 12:10 am

      Hey Carpe!

      That will be fun day, i’m making popcorn for it! That suit is going nowhere fast. ALE can’t or won’t produce legal documents……shrugging their shoulders like a bunch of retards saying the dog ate my homework. Or in this case D. Jacob’s ate em.

    219. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 12:49 am

      1906–Was Robert Wayne Benson murderered? I wish I could have read the comments, but they are gone. No, I don’t know anything about the movie Smoke Signals. The Lone Ranger and Tonto were popular when RWB was a child, and the kids really liked the Lone Ranger. I wonder if he was a fan? The ashes makes me turn toward the cremation of Natalee. I know this is speculation, but I am so ready to have a firm belief of what really happened. To know the truth. I know there are several thoughts on this. It’s like this gang of worthlessness keeps twisting even the thoughts of this situation, and I want to say this is what happened, and hold to it, but this gets confusing because of all the lies, and what a poor excuse for police aruba has. The island is inhabited with vultures who could care less for human existence. How can paulus & anita go on with their lives knowing the truth. The van der sloots have caused a lot of misery for a lot of people to just go unpunished. Beside Natalee’s death, there’s Rene’s, Pitbull, and now this Benson fellow. Sounds like the list maybe getting smaller. The time frame>>was joran on the crappy island? He’s most likely a serial killer. I just hate this monster.

    220. mayan_moons on June 13th, 2007 1:09 am

      The whole take a body to a church seems odd to me (no offense), thats just not a place i would think of to hide a body.

    221. mayan_moons on June 13th, 2007 1:26 am

      Yeah these men are skulking freely on Aruba and now they want to target the Chinese. We should email some special Aruban Links giving them the proverbial *heads up* on what Aruba is about, their media outlets are tightly controlled so the majority of the Chinese public knows not all the uglyness that is Aruba.

    222. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 1:33 am

      Mayan, the church would be a perfect place to hide a body, or just about anything. While everyone is looking all over hell and high water>>>there you go>>>>the church. Sounds about right. I meant aruba and high water.

    223. mayan_moons on June 13th, 2007 1:46 am

      Didn’t Beth go in that church to pray? I’m not saying its impossible but imo not likely. The hospital on the other hand makes perfect Aruban sense seeing as how the hospital has the name ODUBER on it.

    224. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 9:23 am

      No: Not in a church. The cemetery is next to the church.
      Go on Webshots. Search Aruba Churches.. St. Ana.

    225. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 10:27 am

      1906, thank you.

    226. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 10:34 am

      1906, Do you think RWB committed suicide? or was he whacked too?

    227. Brie on June 13th, 2007 11:35 am

      Sparrow..I think he was wacked too! I believe it was referred to as a heart attack..right..victim has a heart attack and puts himelf in a container and seals the lid. Preposterous! We have never gotten any more information. I guess case closed. Without having any previous coverage on the island and it’s corruption…makes you wonder, how many more? SH..h…h…h! We are one safe, happy island. BARF!!!!

    228. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 11:57 am

      RWB obituary:
      The container was locked from the inside. Earlier remarks that have disappeared stated it was locked from the inside and the outside.

      I might be grasping at straws but this is what fell out of Shango’s Riddles about Dicemen.

      HISTORY: (bts) The Dicemen form at an unspecified date, apparently consisting of a number of rich but bored individuals seeking excitement in their lives. Their goal appears to be setting up situations using manipulation and guile (CUNNING, DEVIOUSNESS) which will bring different pawns into conflict with one another. They then watch these conflicts using remote video technology and bet on the outcomes. “Blame the game not the player”.
      Who has remote video technology on Aruba? Good old Willem.
      The Dicemen invite a new member to join their elite group. They dub him Chance, and assign Athey as his assistant. Athey(deepak) will arrange games for Chance(Joran), but as with all assistants to Dicemen, he is also given the duty of protecting the security of the entire group, even at the expense of his master. Sounds like Joran.
      I wonder if “Flatliners” had any influence in their game.

    229. Richard on June 13th, 2007 1:31 pm

      Brie (#205) … Exactly. No body produced. No evidence produced. No crime scene produced. NOTHING has been shown … but we know she’s dead. Because that’s what Aruba says. And that’s ALL we have for sure.

      I’ll say again (knowing that I’m probably wrong) … if Aruba knew that Natalee died, through mishap, FORCED overdose, murder, asphyxiation while bound and gagged, what have you … and had evidence, as we keep hearing …

      … then Aruba would know that a swift prosecution would have ended any turmoil for tourism.

      But if Aruba knew, or had reason to believe, that Natalee was taken off the island a captive … THAT news would have electrified the American people. And nobody would ever have done to Aruba again, much less let their kids go.

      Two scenarios, one of which is so much more destructive to tourism than the other. We keep hearing that all Aruba thinks about is its tourist revenue.

      I know the conclusion I draw ….

      Sparrow (#222), I don’t think the church scenario is likely either. But it’s worth noting that many churches are, or used to be, open to the public 24 hours a day. I know that when I was a kid, the church I used to go to was never locked. (It sure isn’t that way any more, though!)

      Maybe on Aruba it still is. Maybe churches there are not locked, meaning people with something to hide for a moment could sneak inside. But it just seems unlikely to me….

    230. Pearl on June 13th, 2007 1:31 pm


      Aruba’s message to the suffering, tormented mother of a brutally victimized child by Aruban savages is to say to her:

      “Natalee Holloway family ( BETH) GO HOME!”

      In other words: tourists are welcome in Aruba, until their children are DRUGGED, KIDNAPPED, GANG RAPED, BEATEN, AND MURDERED – then their little bodies are savagely stolen away from a grieving family, while Aruba’s response becomes: “GO HOME”, and “this will blow over in two weeks”…or captured in his own words, by Paulus van der Sloot: “No corpse, no case”.









    231. Brie on June 13th, 2007 2:04 pm

      Joran has(or had friends)that have boats and more than likely scuba gear. The fisherman’s cage disappeared that night along with some knives. And Paulus withdraws money. But says he was home sleeping. If your a scuba diver and live on the island, I’m sure your know alot about beneath the sea.

    232. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 2:38 pm

      You’re all probably right about the church hiding scenario, but you never know how the criminal mind works.
      Shango, RWB, was a criminal, and being associated with criminals on aruba he would have known a lot. Now, I think joran, deepak, and satish took Natalee to a rave party, but that throws me off course. Well, one thing I believe for damn sure is they never went to the beach, and joran never left her on the beach. They couldn’t have been organized with a plan. They all have slipped with their lies. The party sounds really possible. Maybe once Natalee was at this she realize she was in trouble, and that’s when something bad happened. If joran’s gang of wanna to be lover boys were there, then they would all know what happened to Natalee–hence the rats abandoning aruba. So many paths to take, but for sure paulus is involved with the murder, and cover-up. He knows a lot of bad things on the so called key-stone cops of aruba. I want somebody to finally solve this mystery, and I want Natalee brought home. Maybe this group of sorry souls will just kill each other off.

    233. disgustedmom on June 13th, 2007 3:58 pm

      1006, keep googling! Sounds like you’re onto something that makes sense.

      I like too the comment you made about a ‘serial killer’ because a woman who claimed to be a medium said early on that Natalee was not the first to meet her fate at the hands of a group who engaged in a game. She said it was not a game to kill, but it happened sometimes, and had happened to at least 2 other girls, maybe 3 with Natalee being either number 3 or number 4. She said Joran was new to the game, so the results of your googling that produced his being new/CHANCE is intriguing!

      More on what that medium said..she said one girl had long black hair, one had shoulder length brown (amy bradley?) and one had long blonde.

      About Shango….I don’t know why, but I don’t think Shango was talking about Natalee as much as talking about the game. It was like ‘he’ was telling the way it goes every time it is played and watching to see if anyone got it right when trying to unravel those clues to figure out the game. I don’t like Shango because I find it cruel if he knew where she was that he would not tell it. I can’t believe he was afraid to tell it because he was not afraid to say if anyone guessed anything right. I think Shango is part of the game.

    234. Brie on June 13th, 2007 4:25 pm

      Read some things on RBW, a likely smuggler, it was said that some think he is the missing link concerning Natalee.

      Gabe also spoke on the missing link. He said those that were responsible for the disappearance of Natalee were clever enough to remove the missing link.

      If had done this before, the perverts knew exactly where to go to get what they needed done. Joran maybe doesn’t know where she is now but he sure as hell knows what happened.

      Joran says, “I hit the jackpot”. And it wasn’t the few pence that Paulus put in the bank the next day.

      Maybe withdrew money from the 4:AM machine for services rendered via RWB.

    235. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 5:27 pm

      brie: I haven’t been able to find anything on RWB; with the exception of SM, Dario and the Obituary.
      What else did You find?

    236. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 5:43 pm

      If Shango knew what happened to Natalee it would be a crime to play the way he/she did with this riddle. I tend to believe it was RWB, and he knew the answers. Interesting, heart attack, I don’t believe he died of a heart attack. Same goes for pitbull, sounds like he was mutilated and burned, but he died from an overdose. Who’s next? This whole thing is rotten, stinks to high heaven. Makes me really angry.

    237. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 6:00 pm

      sparrow: you forgot Rene:6/18/05 decapitated.

    238. sparrow on June 13th, 2007 6:22 pm

      1906 your correct, so that makes 3. Are there anymore? Don’t ya just know the sloots and kalpoes creep around wandering if they’re going to be found murderered.

    239. Brie on June 13th, 2007 9:58 pm

      1906…I keyed in Robert Wayne Benson and Riehl World View appeared…a very brief article…

    240. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 10:42 pm

      The culminating part of this procesvebaal (official report) is that when the police officer mentioned the following: “I, De Ruiter, mentioned to Van der Sloot that there was no interest in lying to him about this fact (he is referring to the declaration of Freddy Zedan Arambatzis) because the importance of the declaration made by the witness Zedan Arambatzis, was directed towards the fact that Joran had already on the 30th of May told Freddy the story about the Holliday Inn and that Joran told Freddy also that “they” went into panic when Natalee remained “passed out”!
      The google on the web concerning drugs etc.
      It also sounds as if Freddy wasn’t there with Natalee.

      I won’t post the whole statement but when you have time you can read it.
      I don’t really know how to explain this feeling I get. It is/was a game similar to the movie “Flatliners” with some twists. Instead of agreeing to be induced to a flatline these victims (20 times before) were drugged. Perhaps sex was involved at first but the game then escalated into a near snuff/sex scene. Nothing ever went wrong before. I get the feeling that Natalee was persuaded to go with Joran after she was administered some drug at C and C’s. Once at her destination she probably REALIZED THE MISTAKE she had made. . Hopefully she did not feel what was going on around her. I believe the attack on her was video broadcasted. The pimps were probably paid for what they did. There is a club where perverts on Aruba go. At this club the video of the victims is received and shown to paying guests of that persuasion. The lights outside the GV Restaurant is a signal when a gang rape/snuff call it what you want is going to occur. The female tourist that will be leaving Aruba within the next 24 hours are picked from videos in the guests’ rooms and finally from the security room at the casino. Every attempt is made to get the tourist to C and C’s so they can be given the poison wine of Bachcus. Deepak’s car is used quite often because with the removeable globe that was given him, it resembles a taxi. Usually he is not accompanied by Satish. Joran may have gotten Natalee; perhaps Michael and Adreas had someone else; etc. There are a few female tourist that remember being kidnapped, rape and beaten. The other 18 or so don’t remember, one never returned. There is a drug (anesthesia) administered during operations that you can do things that you are told but have absolutely no recollection of what happened. I was administed this 8 times for operations and I can’t remember the name. I was told afterwards things I did that I do not remember.
      What is General Anesthesia?
      General Anesthesia is a technique during which the patient is rendered unconscious. General Anesthesia provides analgesia (you have no pain), amnesia (you are unaware and have no memory), and relaxation (your muscles are relaxed to give the surgeon better operating conditions). General Anesthesia is usually started and maintained by giving the patient an intravenous drug (into a vein), an inhalation drug (a gas which you breathe), or a combination of both. The anesthesia provider will monitor the progress of the surgery and the depth of your anesthesia. The depth of anesthesia can be changed by increasing or decreasing the amount of drug given. As the surgeon finishes the procedure, the anesthesia provider reduces the depth of anesthesia so the patient will awaken at the end of the procedure or shortly thereafter.
      We still do not know exactly how general anesthesia works, but modern neuroscientific research has at least suggested a number of plausible hypotheses. The most commonly accepted theory is that general anesthetics operate directly on the central nervous system to temporarily inhibit synaptic transmission (the chemical means by which neural impulses are transmitted between adjacent neurons). This results in a general loss of consciousness that affects sensory awareness in all modalities and at all body loci

      Who supplied the prescription drugs? Maybe Rene; he worked at the hospital or perhaps “Pitbull” or Boeti or there is still an unknown out there. On a drug infested island supply seems to be no problem.
      So IMO if this is the scenario with all the pimps and elders involved; that would be a good indicator why if made known would have a devastating effect on tourism, forever.
      Take the Smoke Signals and Diceman stir in a helpless young drugged blond white female and you have the ingredients for………………..
      Someone take it from here I’m exhausted.

    241. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 10:55 pm

      brie; you asked how many more?

    242. 10061906 on June 13th, 2007 11:35 pm
    243. sparrow on June 14th, 2007 12:38 am

      Dacula Ga. is 212 miles from where I live, and 183 miles from Birmingham al. So at least we know keon’s where abouts when he is in the states, and it’s in the south. One of the members of the Pimps club.

    244. sparrow on June 14th, 2007 1:03 am

      1906, I want to thank you for posting this information. I know it’s late, but it means a lot to read this. I’ve had numerous surgeries and I know what you are saying. I understand every word you wrote. Your findings I believe are answers. You’re dedicated and I appreciate your knowledge. I see what you see. You’ve done your homework, and its right on the mark. I hope to learn more. Thanks again, your great. I believe it was a game too. I’ve seen Flatliners. Natalee had no idea where she was going, and what unspeakable things were going to happen. We have to educate tourist of the dangers in aruba, and the caribbean. It’s getting late. I know tomorrow I will reread several times your posts. Hopefully soon, the truth will finally be told, and Natalee will have justice. Again let me say what you have shown me helps me know what happened.

    245. 10061906 on June 14th, 2007 10:07 am

      Disgustedmom: thank you for redirecting my efforts. I will tell you later. You had mentioned the pet cemetery which is on the south end of the island near the International School. What better place to put Natalee but in the grave of the dog Joran killed if that is where the dog is buried. Joran as he rides by every day could check to see if the cross were disturbed. There is one flaw. Joran graduated and would not be traveling that way anymore. But someone else we know would and still does.
      All my relatives and friends in Law Enforcement have basically said that there is no such thing as a perfect crime. Some cases just take a little longer. Look at every piece of evidence, no matter how small and throw away emotions. I may be wrong, but IMO, I can’t believe how simple this case may have been if everyone had not been deliberately directed to all the wrong places.
      The wrong beach, the wrong church, the wrong Mc Donalds, the wrong police station, the wrong evidence and the wrong end of the Island.

    246. disgustedmom on June 14th, 2007 10:25 am

      1006….per #240
      Another way to make a victim passout is to quickly slip a looped belt over their head and around their neck, then tighten it until the vicim passes out, then the game goes on that they loosen it so the victim wakes back up, then tighten etc etc it is repeated…and yes this is a known game amoung teens. It would not amaze me if this is what was done to Natalee considering what Freddie said Joran said -that THEY panicked when she REMAINED passed out.

      We know Art Wood found a belt near the California Lighthouse that resembled the one Joran had around that boy’s neck in the picture (in choke chain fashion)…but since I personally don’t think what happened to Natalee went down there, what if the belt was planted there as a sick clue? …or another leading us to believe one thing when it’s really all about something else.


      Here’s some interesting information I found on maybe what Paulus was doing in Florida…..Paulus gave an interview February 2007 in which he is quoted as saying, “Everyday we went to Joran at the polis. (a couple sentences complaining about the media I omit) VALENTIJN AND SEBASTIAN WENT TO FRIENDS IN THE STATES. There they were taken in and protected from everything.” scroll down to the April 2, 2007 entry, past Paulus’s ugly picture to find the interview.

      THis disturbs me that he would get his other 2 sons out of the house TO THE STATES just because the media was hounding the family. Why not send them to family in The Netherlands if he wanted them out of the way so badly?


      So about that trip to Florida… When was he supposed to have gone there? Was it early in the case?

      The first I heard of this trip was lately on here. Up until then all I had heard was Paulus CALLED a friend who used to live in Aruba, now in the states and told them that Joran was in the sh**s because he was with an American tourist who had slipped and hit her head then went missing. So now I have to wonder if Paulus CALLED or WENT in person to talk with his friend….so can someone tell me when Paulus’ trip was?

      And I further wonder if he may have made arrangements for this friend to ‘take care of’ his younger sons at this time? If so, when did Paulus send his other sons to Florida? We can see by the transcript of the interview that they were in the states while Joran was in jail, but were they sent away before that? Like maybe when school was over for the year? Just like Joran was arrested at the end of the school year?

    247. 10061906 on June 14th, 2007 11:26 am

      disgustedmom; that could be the sh-t Deepak was referring to if they found her body.
      Bruises on her throat. Then it would be murder 15 years.
      Not accidental 3 years.
      Need you to repost about physchic and the basement.

    248. disgustedmom on June 14th, 2007 12:25 pm

      1006, here’s all I can recall about that Basement thing…

      Natalee was being held in a basement for a time…the basement was dirt-walled up to the foundation of the building…the means to the exit had been removed and Natalee was clawing the dirt walls trying to get up to the exit door. It was suggested by the psychic that this might be under an old hotel.

      Now here are my thoughts on where that basement might be….at the time I read about this basement thing, I also read about natalee being visioned running down a set of spiral stairs. Also, at that time, I read somewhere that there might be a tunnel leading to the basement of the California Lighthouse from somewhere further out. Posters from Aruba said at the time the lighthouse basement was brought up, that the lighthouse had been locked for several years and tourists were no longer allowed to go inside it…now I would assume the stairs inside the lighthouse would be spiral…and if it had been locked up so no normal tourists could go inside it, then what if some locals knew of the tunnel to get inside it and bypass the locks? If Natalee HAD expressed an interest in seeing this lighthouse it would make a bit of sense she might be so interested on the proposition that she might actually get to go inside it.

      I was never able to verify if the lighthouse had a basement, although you know it probably did…nor was I able to verify if there was this tunnel leading to it. So my theory went out the window.

    249. sparrow on June 14th, 2007 3:22 pm

      People who have grown-up on aruba, or teenagers looking for a secret place would know how to get into the locked lighthouse. Locals know how to get around, and go places tourist couldn’t

    250. 14U2NV on June 14th, 2007 5:54 pm

      It was at the fifth suspect’s house. (Simian) Very few buildings have basement; this one apparently does. We are all looking in the wrong direction.
      Just because Joran said he took her here or there; we all know he lies.
      Is it because Natalee stayed at the North end of the Island that we look to the north?
      Natalee was not brought to any of those places. She was brought to the HOUSE.
      One straight path
      to the house of Rave,
      while of gold bricks
      the road is not paved,
      Follow the yellow brick road. Why would the first thing googled be a festival and one of the floats was the Wizard of Oz in Saint Nicholas. Was that an omen.?
      Was Natalee speaking? Find Me Find Me. That was her favorite movie.
      Where did RWB work.? What cemetery was Rene’s body found? The industrial incinerator is used as a crematorium. Who worked there. Was the Police officer that died last year of meningitis Officer Halle?
      One of perps cell call came from St. Lucia. The pickup for Mc Donald’s was Santa Cruz not outside the Raddison. Why did Paulus laugh when the Dutch tore up his property? Why did Joran smirk when he said you would never find her.
      What have the Dutch investigators found that the earlier investigators missed.
      The Ocean, the Dunes, The Lighthouse, the Rocks where all used to keep our attention there.
      Mary ROLLED through the Maze
      There is more than one house of music
      the Lamb is a Scapegoat
      There are four pieces of evidence found at the same location that would put suspect number 8 in the vicinity of suspect number 5. Although never explained they still are compelling. . That company did not have contracts there in 2005.
      Suspects number 9,, 6, 5, 3, 2 and1 were all there. Maybe suspect 7 was not. RWB worked near suspect number 5. He also worked near where Pitbull lived.
      RWB was buried where Rene was found. Why was the priest killed?
      I have only posted once in two years. This is number two. One is wrong.
      Try to work this out. It’s simple and straight forward. I spent two years on this; see what are your conclusions? What does WEG mean?

    251. sparrow on June 14th, 2007 8:28 pm

      I had stated early that “they” couldn’t have been organized. I withdraw that statement.

    252. Waterboy (Jerry) on June 14th, 2007 10:49 pm


      For sure, fore sure, I’m interested. I think all others would be. Everyone went on vacation. Not much activity here right now, and I’ve got to go build fence so I won’t be around, but I’ll get back in a few days. Darn right we what to hear what you have to say, so speak up!


    253. Waterboy (Jerry) on June 14th, 2007 11:00 pm


      I’ve read that there is a tunnel from the restaurant (use to be the keeper of the light’s house) to the lighthouse. That way he could on a stormy night go to the lighthouse or to the home. I’ll have to look it back up, but yes, I understand there is such a tunnel.

      Read some of my other post in the past, and you will see I’m “foaming at the mouth” interested in the lighthouse, the restaurant, and the golf course.


    254. Richard on June 15th, 2007 6:06 am

      My understanding is that Paulus vdS went to Miami, for reasons that have never been made clear, some two or three months after Natalee went missing.

      People who have been researching this case from the beginning … the very beginning … have told me that stuff about his trip that used to be on the Internet has disappeared. The same with a lot of records on Aruba.

    255. Richard on June 15th, 2007 6:15 am

      1006 (#159) … You’re one of the few who seem to agree that it’s possible that girls are also involved in this case. None were with J2K when they left Carlos ‘n’ Charlies, but if the three brought Natalee to some gathering of the “Pimps,” or of others, girls could well have been present. And high on drugs (like others).

      There’s talk about Natalee being imprisoned in a place with a cellar, such as the California Lighthouse. (I’m sure that a lighthouse, which has to withstand storms, etc., would have a kind of a cellar/foundation.) It might be possible for a brief time, but I would think it more likely that (depending on the motive for keeping her captive) a private place would be used.

      Such as: a house, a boat, or a seedy motel or crack house that was controlled by drug dealers. Even a local brothel.

      We have to remember that few people would be inclined to risk trouble for the sake of “just another tourist.” Even more … people who patronize crack houses are not disposed to heroic gestures, I assume. They couldn’t care less, so long as they get what they’re there for.

      I’m not saying that Natalee went of her own will to any crack house, as Dennis Jacobs suggested. That’s absurd.

      But she might well have been confined in one. And from there … taken from Aruba by a drug-dealing gang?

      That’s why I think Joran smirked and told the police they would never find her … because they can only look in Aruba, and he knew she wasn’t there anymore.

    256. 14U2NV on June 15th, 2007 7:49 am

      Ref 250: This is not a riddle like Shango or Simian. The answers to those questions I know. I have researched those questions. I feel it has more impact if you yourself try and put 2 and 2 together.
      But the way in that research the guards are not considered as numbers they are omitted.
      Number five was omitted from the chart in Dennis Jacobs office, but included here. See Dave’s book
      You are right about the activity. Maybe Haunting Evidence will rekindle interest. I hope.

    257. sparrow on June 15th, 2007 9:57 am

      14U2NV-I very interested in what you have to say and know. Sounds like you have spent a lot of time reading and thinking about what happened to Natalee. I follow most of what you say, and think you may be right. I hadn’t thought about the girls, but the group did gather at joran’s so called apartment right after.

    258. Brie on June 15th, 2007 11:42 am

      14u2nv, So far I have come up with this:

      I found some key words under gold bricks:

      The HOUSE is Van der Sloots and they have a sub-basement

      RWB worked at Big Twin Aruba

      Rene’s body found at the Beach Cemetery

      Rene worked at the crematorium

      Officer Halle supposedly died of meningitis

      Paulus laughed because she is not in the ground

      Joran smirked: either she is cremated or abducted

      Mary ROLLED through the Maze: Meaning, Mary(is Natalee) Rolled(Meaning the drug estacsy)MAZE(party)

      More than one house of music: Belonging to a group

      Lamb is a scapegoat: Joran

      Why was the priest killed?: Halle was also a priest and he reportedly found a body in the sand dunes.

    259. 10061906 on June 15th, 2007 11:48 am

      14U2NV: Let’s see if I got this correct.
      RWB worked in a motorcycle shop in Cura Cabai.
      That is right before you get to San Nicolas.
      Rene was found in the government cemetery in
      Sanaba Basora which is near Saveneta which is where “Pitbull” was buried.
      RWB was buried in the same cemetery that Rene was buried in. The government cemetery in Sabana Basora.
      If Natalee was buried with someone else. My guess would be with Rene. This is the south end of the island.

    260. Brie on June 15th, 2007 12:55 pm

      correction to the above:

      RWB did not work at Big Twin Aruba

      Rene was found behind the government cemetery in Sabana Basora but do not know the name

    261. kayjay on June 15th, 2007 1:25 pm

      Do we have a profiler in this group…WHO IS SHANGO? WHAT AGE GROUP COULD HE BE IN? WHAT IS HIS EDUCATIONAL LEVEL? WHAT NATIONALITY IS HE? ..there has to be clues in his/her riddles that a profiler could zero in on.

    262. disgustedmom on June 15th, 2007 1:29 pm

      One for you to Envy/14u2NV

      This case has enough riddles, so why don’t you just spit it all out here straight up? It’s absolutely a waste of time for us to guess when you already know the answers.

    263. sparrow on June 15th, 2007 2:30 pm

      This all just makes me literally sick, I can guess a hundred things. Mostly now I’m convinced that Natalee’s murder involves a lot of people, and some of those are powerful, rich, people. They killed a young woman who had a promising future. Beth and Dave know who these people are. The mystery is why in hell can’t the Dutch bring charges. There are all of these people being killed that are involved. So to use a mafia word-whacked. Question-is the mafia involved? Did Paulus go to Miami to talk to Micheal Posner? How can anybody in power from the authorities to whoever, let a cocky, teenager run the island? We all need to come together on the facts of what each can bring to this table so that we can make a definite decision. Is that possible, because of all the lies and cover ups? I don’t want to guess, but I do want to know.

    264. Brie on June 15th, 2007 2:43 pm

      Key gold bricks aruba….Mansur vs Posner….scroll down click on more Shango…then look under the key…you’ll find words and their meanings…go beyond…and you will see what Shango has to say. No one knows who Shango is…supposedly the god of justice. Scared Monkeys say believe what you may but they think there is truth to what he is saying.

      I will caution you now…some of this is really pretty scary. It is the dark side of Aruba that no one wants us to know about. YIKES!!!!

    265. Brie on June 15th, 2007 3:10 pm

      Also, if you want to know who’s who. Key in aruban who’s who and click on the first article. This shows pictures and identity of most everyone. Interesting!!!

    266. 10061906 on June 15th, 2007 3:11 pm

      disgustedmom: I for one don’t mind. But I see exactly where he/she is coming from. If you spend a little time researching; the information remains longer and you can probably add based on your research.
      Shango and Simian are probably gone by now. The reference to diceman that they created a situation and watched the outcome. Shango and Simian I believe are part of that type of group. Remember these guys posted in June/July 2005; where are they now? Probably watching us chase our tails.

    267. disgustedmom on June 15th, 2007 5:02 pm

      #261, kayjay, here’s my armchair profiling of Shango…she or a gay boy is a game playing jerk like all the rest of them. IT knows nothing certain about Natalee, but only knows the game and suspects this might be what happened to Natalee. IT is no better than a troll.

    268. disgustedmom on June 15th, 2007 5:18 pm

      Another thing about my opinion of Shango…IT is a wise guy type who likes to toy with people the same way Joran loves to lie all the time even when the truth would serve him better. For all anyone knows, Shango’s posts could have been posted FOR Joran after Joran emailed the riddles to HER. And they laughed and laughed.

      I don’t think it’s anything miraculous to suggest the game Shango suggests goes on. It should be common sense, not just in Aruba but other places as well, to know what Shango suggested is a thing of the dark side of life, nothing new or amazing. And as much as I’d like to believe in the theory Natalee was taken to a Rave, I think Shango pretty much convinces me she was not.

    269. sparrow on June 15th, 2007 5:22 pm

      Thank you, Ms Brie

    270. Brie on June 15th, 2007 8:33 pm

      You take bits and pieces from everywhere and try to put it together. I think Joran took Natalee to his house or apartment. Koen and Sanders were there waiting, assuming Joran would bring one or more girls back from Carlos n Charlie’s. Paulus was also there and wouldn’t object to anything that was going on. It’s hard to speculate after that. There is a sub-basement in their house. 4:00AM withdrawal from the ATM. Someone needed money, then, but for what? We know there was a bloody mattress removed. We know Joran had scratches on his face, also the same was said about Guildo Weaver the next day. These guys could all be bi-sexual, they probably get so high it doesn’t matter. Natalee was in really bad company. I’m still wondering what he means when he says, “I hit the jackpot”.

    271. 10061906 on June 15th, 2007 8:55 pm

      brie: Because they probably never tried to entice a girl from C and C’s. This was the first time they succeeded.
      The other 20 times they never got anyone; but this was the first and the first time anything went wrong.
      The fact that it was Natalee was also that is who everyone wanted. She was choosen from the crowd by the pimps. It is all a game to them. Escalating ever higher game of chance. These pimps were living on the edge and sooner or later something bad was going to happen.

    272. 10061906 on June 15th, 2007 9:54 pm

      brie: I don’t believe it says anywhere that a bloodly matteress was removed from the van der sloots. The bloody mattress was found on the south east end of the island.
      They live on the northwest side. It is sometimes hard to get your bearings because of the way Aruba is layed out to true north. By the way there are two medical centers on Aruba. Oduber Hospital and San Nicolas Medical Center.

    273. Brie on June 15th, 2007 10:22 pm

      10061906…Thank You…the headline said bloody mattress….Van der sloots get new chair and new bedding. 7/05. They left out the middle. Appreciate your commenting on that. Glasses help sometimes, so does reading the whole article.

    274. sparrow on June 15th, 2007 10:51 pm

      1906, question about poster #250>>>was there a priest killed? When joran said, he hit the jackpot, I thought maybe he meant because Natalee was a virgin.

    275. 10061906 on June 15th, 2007 11:05 pm

      “They call it something dreaming”
      Mix this with alchohol and it is deadly.
      The belt that was discarded????
      Some use it to get an extra high from sex. I thought this game they were playing sounded a little like “Flatliners”; but with a twist.

      A father Montoya. Was bound and gagged and found dead. I can’t seem to get more on the article.

    276. 10061906 on June 15th, 2007 11:45 pm

      The went into a panic when Natalee remained passed out.
      Tenth paragraph.

    277. Brie on June 15th, 2007 11:50 pm

      Sparrow, that thought crossed my mind too, about Natalee. But then ,because he’s addicted to gambling I thought he was referring to money. Could be either one!

    278. Brie on June 16th, 2007 12:21 am

      Why did Natalee pass out? Because she was drugged. So what happened when they panicked? End of story. This is the absolute poorest form of law and appointed officers I’ve even seen. They don’t know squat! Wait until he comes across the Chinese with his cocky attitude. Kung Fu!

    279. Brie on June 16th, 2007 12:50 am

      Sparrow, key in Priest Montoya Aruba, there is an article. The priest did not reside in Aruba, but Aruba was mentioned in the article(as part of the Netherlands). He was bound and gagged and found dead. Robbery

    280. disgustedmom on June 16th, 2007 9:59 am

      I attended a high school graduation last night and I couldn’t help thinking about Natalee afterwards. The speeches given talked about the usual…a recap of fond memories of 13 years leading up to graduation, indeed 18 years of life, and the beginning of a new era of your life and your hopes and dreams and where you will be in the coming years and who you will become…it was so sad think about Natalee and her family hearing similar words of the future only days before all that was lost. They went from happiness and hope, reminiscing about the past that had gotten Natalee that far and looking toward the future with excited anticipation of sharing more and more wonderful memories with their only daughter, to the worst nightmare one does not even want to think about before it happens.

      I know tragedy can strike in all different ways and some don’t live out full lives, but even so most of the time the family has their loved one to bury as some form of closure and solace. Beth and Dave did not get this and since the reason for them not getting it is obviously because someone(s) who caused her to be taken from her family -either directly or indirectly-have turned a cold heart toward the family in favor of saving their own skins. REasonably expected by the actual perps? Of course it is…but reasonably expected from those who have nothing to lose who have simply chosen not to help the family find their daughter or find out what became of her is IMO as bad if not a worse cold hearted behavior.

      Someone out there other than the perps knows something. And while it might not be the location of Natalee, it might be something that would lead to it by knowing what might have up to this point seemed like irrelevant trivia.

      Such as….I would like to know why Natalee seemed fine with going off with Joran in the first place? She, herself, had not had -to public knowledge- enough interaction with him prior to going off with him that would warrant her feeling as comfortable as she seemed to have been. Some of her friends, however, seemed to have associated with Joran during the trip. Did they vouch for him? That he was OK, a nice boy? And just what was Joran’s function within that one group of girls? Seems he didn’t interact with any other of the girls on the trip. Why this group?

      Joran says he gets himself a tourist girl for a one night stand all the time. How? Nothing has been said (or seen) that would indicate Joran was such an amiable person that he could himself seem like a lot of fun enough to make the group ‘want him to be with them at CC’s on their last night’ or even cared one way or another….he didn’t dance! And he doesn’t seen to have a jovial personality. What then did he have to offer?

      My own personal opinion is that Joran’s claim to have lived on the island before is key in that he might have shared ‘better less known spots of fun’….places locals would only know of. Whether or not he actualy did know any is debatable. It could simply have been a ruse to get someone who wanted to know of such a thing to go with him and then he takes them wherever he wants to. But as I don’t see Natalee being a ‘lone’ party person, I can’t imagine her being interested in going to some ‘more fun’ place without her friends.

      I wonder with regard to the relationship this group of girls developed with Joran, WHO approached WHOM? Did they girls find Joran or did he find them? To me, this is key also.

    281. Brie on June 16th, 2007 11:33 am

      Joran had been seen hanging around the pool at the Holiday Inn. He makes himself visable and meets some of the girls and then shows up on their last night. He has one thing on his mind.

      Some of the boys from Mountain Brooke had a scuffle with Joran at the bar. They probably figured out his intentions. Preying on American girls.

      Who even wants to be in the company of Joran? What are his younger brothers learning, while they see him as someone who is telling his parents what he is going to do. And does it!
      They have never exercised any control over him. Obviously that is not an issue. It’ way past time to pay the price.

    282. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 12:47 pm

      joran is addicted to gambling, pyrograhpy, sex,lying, and killing. He’s a spoiled rotten bully. I can’t see what the girls would find appealing about joran. He knows the game, and is sure of himself. Maybe that’s the charm this monster has.

      disgustedmom, that’s a good theory, about the MB girls. I don’t see Natalee going it on her on either, without some kind of encouragement from her friends.

      It’s so heart breaking to think of how Natalee, and her family planned her trip, and how she looked forward to going. To think that Beth has to remember the last time she saw Natalee would be her last, that has to be a pain that can’t be described, and will not ever go away. I wish someone would tell where Natalee was buried. If only by secretly telling Natalee’s parents. God knows if someone told the aruban authorities anything truthful about Natalee, nobody would ever know it.

    283. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 12:48 pm

      how did I spell pornography? exxx-cusse me, again

    284. 10061906 on June 16th, 2007 1:28 pm

      Brie, sparrow and disgustedmom.
      My wife teaches at high school with a small enrollment. so she usually gets chaperone duty. I always volunteer to go with her. I see these young, future leaders and I wonder about how the world has been change without one of the key participants not being there. What could Natalee have provided for the world that has been taken away from all of us. We have all been cheated

    285. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 1:54 pm

      Natalee wanted to be a doctor. I know she would have had compassion for people. I think of her as being a gentle soul who was deep down good. It’s a damn shame she didn’t get to contribute to this world something good. It was evil against good. Sometimes, it takes all I can do to not say some nasty things about the sloots, but I can think em. Tim Miller knows something are he wouldn’t be trying again to find Natalee. He’s a good guy.

    286. 10061906 on June 16th, 2007 2:49 pm

      sparrow: I still believe he is being lead to the wrong places:Gut feeling;
      Maybe he is right.

    287. 10061906 on June 16th, 2007 3:26 pm

      Choking: There was a murder a few years ago on the east coast. It involved two male gays. The cause of death was hypoxia. They were using the chocking method to inhance their sexual encounters.

    288. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 8:51 pm

      1906, I’ve read about teens being found dead from the method you mentioned. I hope this time Tim finds Natalee. He’s determined, at least we can say that. It’s unbelievable how this case has been treated. I know I’m repeating myself, but it’s a shame that the 4 we always talk about can’t be arrested and convicted of this murder. What do you think it will take? It’s scary to think of all the bad things that go on in this world. Now at my age I’m happy staying close to home. I’m thankful for all that God has given me.

    289. disgustedmom on June 16th, 2007 9:28 pm

      #281, 282

      Yes, Joran is a con man…his fun with lying is proof of that. Hence, it should follow that he would not use truth to get a tourist to go off with him, nor tell any part of any truth that might get him caught. His whole life is a con game even with his book and every single interview he has given. He is trying to con the world.

      So if we look at what he wants the world to think…he wants us all to think he is a woman’s man, a player, popular with females….so what does this make him? THe opposite….Gay!

      I don’t know many young girls these days whose gaydar is far off track. And I’d bet if you asked any of those MB girls who talked with Joran they would say he never made any passes at them sexually. Anita said he was a Delicous Sporter which to me Delicous means he was gay. In pictures you see multiple girls kissing Joran on the cheek at the same time; you don’t know how many times I’ve seen this behavior where girls don’t have a problem sharing because neither of them have any real chance with a gay. And in the pics of girls ‘on top’ of Joran where he -and he claims so as well- doesn’t get on top to where it seems the girl is doing the advancing, well girls like doing this to gay guys just for fun. They get to play with no strings attached. The list goes on…and I think that is why Joran was trusted by Natalee. She thought he was gay, harmless.

      So this might mean Joran was delivering for someone else. And who better to trust with your ‘choice’ than a gay guy whom you can trust to not try and get the first action…and especially off a virgin? The jackpot? (whoever said they though that was what Jackpot meant, you got me started on this theme.)

      I do think though that under this scenario what might have ‘gone wrong’ this time was that Natalee put up a fight at not being taken where she was expecting to go, Joran’s anger at not being able to make his delivery caused her harm after which she was put in the capable hands of PVDS to keep the ‘bait and switch’ game quiet.

      I have my ideas as to why it went wrong ‘this time’…and it might seem a bit off the wall, but Natalee had to be led back to her room the night before….could she have been drugged for the delivery that night? (seems like this sort of thing doesn’t habitually happen on the last night since ALE etc kept saying the girls turn up at their HOTEL in a day or so) And it failed because her friends stepped in? And did she not realize it was drugs and just thought she drank too much too fast? So Joran tries again the next night, but by now Natalee is aware of the beginnings of feeling like she’s over doing it and she is not gulping her drinks but sipping them, so the drug did not take it’s full effect and she was able to realize she was in danger.

      I don’t know…I just keep thinking Natalee would not have gone off to make out or do anything sexual with a stranger on her own or take the chance of that happening because she seemed a bit shy of her sexuality in those Dorian videos. She kept pulling her top down so her skin didn’t show. She rebuked GVC’s advances and she is seen arguing with a man at that jewelry store probably not about jewelry. She hung with her girlfriends on the trip. I’d be willing to bet those body shots she allowed were won at CC’s in a contest she did not enter and she just played along. And for all we know she may have been selected by some old man because she was not the type to volunteer what he wanted and he wanted a challenge…

      I’m rambling I know and I keep throwing out what ifs, but maybe what ifs is what is needed to bring some witness forward who might relate and provide something that might lead to finding Natalee. For example, I just watched a cop show… a true case thing, where this young girl was found dead but they couldn’t find her killer until some obscure friend of hers said months after that the girl had told her she had been approached to be in a movie. The girl did not say she was meeting anyone, just that she had been asked to and the friend had been hestitant to even provide this information because it sounded so cliche she felt silly telling it. So when this information came out, then multiple other girls came forward with the same story and all described the same man. In the end this man was the one who had killed the girl. (The other girls had taken a boyfriend with them to this ‘shoot’ or asked for ID and the man had changed his mind, or they had just refused him.)

    290. disgustedmom on June 16th, 2007 9:37 pm

      I hope Tim has some success this time, but I doubt he will be allowed anywhere near any evidence. ALE and/or the Dutch should be the only ones allowed to investigate this….think jurisdiction and if anything Tim might find would be allowed in court. I don’t know. Would it? I’m inclined to think the only thing Tim might find that would do any good would be if he found Natalee. I wish him well for the family’s sake.

    291. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 10:39 pm

      Anybody know anything about international waters? Where would it start around aruba? aruba has no say so in international waters. I’m throwing things out here too.

      I know disgustedmom, Natalee wouldn’t have gone off with joran, and the other two–to have sex….I stated some time back that I thought paulass liked young girls. In the video of Natalee and paulass in the casino, Natalee has a look about her, I’m saying she looks to me as if he has said something out of the way to her. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but I’ll bet paulass made advances towards Natalee then. I questioned joran arranging for his dad to meet girls and we can only imagine the rest. joran is one sick, dangerous person, and betcha the apple doesn’t fall from the tree. I’m lost with the fact that the authorities of aruba, seems to me, have enough evidence to convict these 4 murderers. Someone will have to take the fall before this is over, but then again, aruba may wait too long and have another murder happen. I think joran is a serial killer.

    292. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 10:41 pm

      suppose to read–bet the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

    293. sparrow on June 16th, 2007 10:46 pm

      delicious sporter does sound gay–also sounds sick for a mother to say that about her son. I can’t imagine saying that about my sons, beside if I did they wouldn’t let me forget it.

    294. disgustedmom on June 17th, 2007 4:51 pm

      Sparrow, I thought too that Natalee looked in the video as if that old geezer had said something out of the way to her and she found it ridiculous….

      On the pretense that Paulus liked young girls….how interesting that the Soul Beach Festival that brings in so many to the island falls on the same week as Anita’s grandmother’s birthday. I wonder if Anita leaves Paulus along every year during Soul Beach to go visit her granny…that is IF it is even really granny’s birthday or just Anita’s convenient trip time so the boys can play without her interference.

    295. sparrow on June 17th, 2007 7:39 pm

      disgustedmom, does make you wonder what kind of relationship or so called marriage the sloots have. There are spouses who turn their heads so the other can play. I’m the jealous type so they would never go over with me. I do believe that anita knows what happened to Natalee. All that matters to the van der sloots is the van der sloots, but I’m a firm believer, that you pay for your sins on this earth, one way or the other. The other may be in hell. Anita maybe playing on her trip. GAG

    296. disgustedmom on June 17th, 2007 11:00 pm

      Sparrow, Anita comes across to me as one of those ‘serve your man at all costs’ women….you know the kind, men’s chattel. (in case I spelled chattel wrong, that means personal property) I’m glad she never had any daughters!

    297. disgustedmom on June 17th, 2007 11:03 pm

      Hey, did you all see this what Deepak supposedly said about Joran?

      I can give you a list of the problems that Joran has.
      He himself has said he had stolen money from his mother. He also says
      that if his brothers go into his room he beats them. Joran has
      completely beaten up a guy at Bahia, because according to him the guy had told
      something about him to the headmaster that was not true.
      Joran has destroyed more car front windows then any drug dealer on the
      island. Sometimes when we are out he says: Lets go! If we ask him what
      is going on he says he has smashed in a front window of a car. He also
      has admitted that he has stolen property from tourists several times.
      He goes to the casino’s since he was 16. Everywhere where he sees a fire
      alarm he has to put it on. He has performed a lot of vandalism in
      several hotels. That is what I know about Joran since I know him. By now I
      also know he is a super liar.

    298. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 12:08 am

      deepak and joran are both, pointing fingers at each other. joran has all the characteristic of a murderer. Killing his dog, pornography, lying, stealing, killing Natalee Holloway. He’s basically evil. deepak’s voice just absolutely makes me think of a demon. His voice gives me the same reaction of nails on a chalkboard. Once any girl, woman, heard him talk they would run, and probably laugh. He could be gay. deepak said some ugly things about Natalee. Why does he seem to hate Natalee? Think that’s fear, or big boy talk? The first pictures I saw of him, he looked really scared. He’s the weakest link, and I really do believe that he will go to prison. I’m not so sure joran will ever see prison time, but he needs too. satish is slow and it seems he would talk, but we never hear from him. I wander why?

      I bet anita and paulus fight like hell. They’ve probably never had any control over joran. Do you think they could be afraid of him too? anita looks to me to be the kind of person who is never happy. Almost like she’s ready to have a nervous breakdown. I’m from the south so nervous breakdown is a common phrase for us. lol Anyway anita looks like she’s ready to have a meltdown, and paulus looks like he smells, literally.

    299. Brie on June 18th, 2007 12:12 am

      I think Deepak could say even more about Joran. And he better start speaking up while he has the chance. Going to prison for Joran, are we Deepak? If he has his way, you will!

    300. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 12:30 am

      Everytime joran talks, he blames deepak. How many times before deepak comes forward. Brie, why do you think we never hear anything about satish?

    301. disgustedmom on June 18th, 2007 10:21 am

      Oh yeah, Deepak is an angry disgruntled creep who apparently finds good company in the likes of Joran no matter that Deepak exposes all these rotten things about Joran. So that means Deepak is apparently OK with the stupid and mean things Joran does so he’s pretty much telling on his own self by telling on Joran. Deepak likes the excitement Joran brings to his life.

      I also read how Satish cuts Joran’s hair! So let me see….Deepak and Satish are Joran’s slaves. So why did Joran have to blame Natalee with asking if they were his slaves as if she were insulting them? They ARE his slaves and apparently are fine with it.

      Sparrow, I have an idea why we don’t hear anything about Satish. He’s retarded and can’t be trusted to keep his mouth shut. I wonder more why we don’t hear anything about or from the stepfather Ramirez -the sudden new owner of the Internet Cafe.

      Satish might be a weak link in this case, and he might be under strong control not to break because he could end up getting the entire blame, especially after Joran’s lie that Satish, not Deepak, was the one who picked him up from where he says he left Natalee IF Satish were to tell where she is. RE: the following case….

      There is this case of 3 teens who killed a girl (a somewhat friend of theirs) in a sleepy town somewhere in the US (can’t recall)…they used a belt to choke her then stabbed her and left her to bleed to death. The cops in the town thought she just had to be a runaway since she was a teenager…and in addition to being a teenager she had a bedroom off the main house pretty much like Joran had his apartment, and she used to sneak out frequently at night. The cops pretty much did like ALE did when her parents reported her missing. The cops didn’t want to listen to the parents say they knew their daughter sneaked out but they also knew she would not stay gone. The cops just pffted and assumed the parents were naive. Calls came in to the police station, tips saying the girl was dead and suggesting who did it (they were right about all that) but the cops pffted it off because they were sure she was a runaway since no one had found a body. And they weren’t looking real hard for a body either since they were so sure she HAD to be a runaway. In the end the more sensitive (if you can call him sensitive after he participated in stabbing the girl) cracked and told the cops what happened and led them to her body. She was only a quarter mile from her home in the woods. It took him 8 months to crack. The cops arrested all 3 boys, but the other 2 denied having done anything and blamed it all on the one who cracked. (I haven’t finished researching this case so I don’t yet know how it finally came out)

    302. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 11:04 am

      I recall reading that satish cuts joran’s hair, and I’ve pondered why they idolized him so much. I think I said something like bowed down or bent over which ever came first. This group of pimps were into all kinds of kinky, unmentionable acts. deepak is two faced. He was fine with all the hateful things joran did at the time. Big men, lol. Stupid idiots. Yes, satish is retarded. Don’t you know they all worry about who is going to kill who, and who could be first. There will be an end to this murder. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if we don’t hear something soon. It’s summer, and joran will come home. Who’s to protect satish or deepak from him. Did anyone ever say how the step-father bought the cafe?
      I went to school with a girl who married her high school sweetheart. She was one in a million-never dated anyone but her husband, graduated with honors just deep down descent. Court TV has the segment on how he murderered her. It took years to convict him. They were both teachers. He shot her nine times, and then put her between the mattress and burnt her and the house. He married soon after. Everyone that knew her, and her family were determined to have justice for her. It took the governor and lord knows who else to finally spend the time and money to have him sent to prison for life. In the end justice was served. She was an only child, and her father died shortly after her death. I’m sure from a broken heart. I visited her grave a few months ago. There is a double headstone with her killer husbands name beside hers. I wish they would change that. Why do such horrible things happen to people who could contribute good for the people of this world?

    303. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 11:48 am

      disgustedmom, the murder I told you about my friend. I recalled how her husband told some major lies, but what finally convicted him was his attempted to cover-up his time frame. He flaged down a car to ask a question, to really set an alibi, but the time frame was all wrong. It took time to realize the timing was off. So in the end he did himself in. Thank god for that. These murderers always tell on themselves. Some like the attention, like BTK did. I believe joran LOVES the attention. He want go unpunished. If not by the law, joran will get his due.

    304. disgustedmom on June 18th, 2007 3:01 pm

      Sparrow, sorry about your friend. :(

      I agree Joran LOVES attetion so much he will eventually mess up more than he already has…and when I say ‘more than he already has’ I’m talking about his book, and since it’s only in Dutch and not going to be published in the USA-which is where he really wants to be famous- it’s only a matter of time before he writes more or interviews more OR makes himself more obvious on message boards. He can’t keep his mouth shut because he doesn’t see anything wrong with anything he does so he will always want to brag about how cool he is having to face the world that thinks he’s a moron/jerk/Choose a Negative Noun. Joran is actually the weakest link, come to think of it.

      Does anyone have any idea why Joran would say Paulus was using Anita’s cell phone May 29th 2005?

      And speaking of cell phones and how they are like a necessary apendage these days -especially for teens- what do you all think about Sander G saying his was stolen May 30 after which he did NOT report it missing or try to get another one? Could this be the phone Natalee used?

    305. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 4:48 pm

      I have no idea why joran would say paulus was using anita’s phone, but I bet there’s something to it. Why didn’t she take the phone with her? It’s the small details that count. Disgustedmom, you’re really good with the details. Excellent, I think. Very good question about sanders cell phone, and I bet you’re right. Cell phone records would tell who was talking to who. Surely, someone has checked on that. BUT, there you go—the cover-up thing, again. The stupidity of the aruban authorities is unbelievable, and unforgivable. It’s so blatant.

      joran is a big whore when it comes to attention. If one of our theories is correct, and there are bigger fish in this game they play>>>>seems the bigger fish would dispose of the mouth piece. You said the truth, joran is the weakest link. Right there all the time. He will do himself in, or somebody will help him. Do you know if he is home for the summer? If he is, don’t you know the crime rate just jumped 100%. When this case is finally brought to justice we all need to celebrate.

    306. 10061906 on June 18th, 2007 5:44 pm

      why would you bring your phone unless you had international calling? That is why she left it home. Our phone worked out in the pacific ocean; we could not call th USA from Europe. Maybe it was Paulus’ phone that Natalee grabbed. More evidence that would have to be destroyed.
      Sparrow: it is not stupidity. The originators of this cover up are dumb like fox.
      Nothing will ever be known when the Fox (ALE)has the responsibility (cover up) the Hen House (all evidence and records) The truth may never be known.

    307. disgustedmom on June 18th, 2007 7:43 pm

      Thanks Sparrow for the pat on the back for my attention to details…honestly though I get inspired from the details others on here -you included- post about. :)

      Anita’s cell…maybe she couldn’t use it in Holland, but that doesn’t mean Paulus needs to carry it around when he has one of his own. I mean, like anyone who needed to call him would not know he had Anita’s cell so he’d miss calls. If he was using it that night it was for a reason, like maybe so calls would not be tracked to HIS phone and no one would suspect to track them to Anita’s…if Joran hadn’t told it that is. Well, I’m sure Paulus would just say the battery was dead on his. Yeah, right.

      And while I’m thinking about cell phones…in reading the statements of several of Joran’s friends, it seems a lot of them never have any minutes and use the missed call a lot….but here’s something I don’t understand so maybe you all can help me with it….

      If you don’t have any minutes then how can you receive calls or get a missed call? I can think of how one could be able to get a missed call…that could be if you keep just one minute on the card/phone, but what about calling back that missed call? Sounds like a signal to me to perhaps call on some other phone? If so, then this game they play is quite organized. Can anyone set me straight on this?

      You have to wonder when cell phones mysteries are involved because just take Baltimore Maryland USA for one place….in some neighborhoods there are discarded cell phones lying all over the street, sidewalk and laying on top of trash in trash cans. These phones belonged to drug dealers. I’m not sure exactly how it works, but the way I understand it the dealers and buyers and mules and whatnot all use throwaway phones so their connections with the same people over and over again can’t be tracked by the cops.

    308. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 9:36 pm

      1906, you’re right. I wasn’t thinking. There are times I think this may never get solved, and then I decide I can’t give-up. As a group we have to help each other stay strong. It seems so many have gone quite. I’m sure the ones who know what really happened that night hope that we go silently away.

      Many reason for the phone situation. I would think anita’s phone would stay with her, or would be left alone so that nobody would use it. paulus’s battery could have been low, or the tracking thing is one idea. This murder could go unsolved for years, but I believe joran can’t let it go, so there’s more to come on this story. Do you thing deepak is a socipath too? He’s stone cold angry. He’s just as dangerous as joran.

    309. sparrow on June 18th, 2007 9:47 pm

      think not thing. lol

      question, do you think shango and simian were the same person? I do.


      SM:   Shango and Simian were definately NOT the same person (klaasend)

    310. Brie on June 18th, 2007 9:56 pm

      Disgustedmom..You can receive calls on a cell phone if your minutes run out but you are billed extra for those calls.. for example….35 cents per minute.

      They could also own cell’s with prepaid minutes.

    311. 10061906 on June 18th, 2007 10:06 pm

      No: Deepak I believe is a mysogonist; period.
      Satish is a retard.
      IMO Joran is the psychopath.
      IMO Geoff is worse.
      Followed closely by Lorenzo.
      Michael Dompig matches his name.
      Keon could be the loose cannon.
      Freddy is shrewd.
      Andreas has a conscious.
      Paulus initiated the cover up with Van der Straaten.
      The PM and MJ have us looking in all the wrong places.
      Everyone else is a mole.
      Trust no one.

    312. 10061906 on June 18th, 2007 10:08 pm

      Klaasend: What about Merian Ernest?
      I could guess who Shango was.
      Simian is a little harder: Sounds a little like a Gabriel Leo touch.


      SM:   Simian and Merian Ernest were the same person (klaasend)

    313. disgustedmom on June 18th, 2007 11:28 pm

      #310, thanks Brie, I don’t know what I was ‘or wasn’t’ thinking! I completley didn’t even think about calling plans that only allow a certain number of minutes per month without having to pay per call afterward! Of course, that could explain it all.

      Time for bed! :)

    314. Brie on June 19th, 2007 6:13 pm

      #313, there are so many calling plans out there it gets confusing. Understood.

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