Irony In Aruba: Beach Boys, An Over the Hill Band Closes Aruba’s Caribbean Marketplace 2007


Caribbean Marketplace 2007 came to an end in Aruba and with it came a performance from an over the hill band who’s time has long since past, The Beach Boys. Talk about a band that just needs to hang it up and give the singing a break. There is nothing more tragic than a music group that just does not know when to stop. Then again Lionel Richie performed in Aruba as well.


How ironic that Aruba would close their Caribbean Marketplace 2007 with a band best known for past accomplishments with no real future. Who will the band be next year, Milli Vanilli, George Michael, Boy George or Vanilla Ice? Here is how out of touch Aruba is with the world and pop culture. They think its a good idea that The Beach Boys sing at this signature event because of one song from 1988, Kokomo and that Aruba is referenced in it. The fact is that most people think its one of the most annoying songs ever written and Kokomo also is a part of VH1’s 40 Most Awesomely Bad #1 Songs. Oops … some market research may be in order.

“Kokomo” has appeared on several “worst song” lists, including VH1′s “40 Most Awesomely Bad No. 1 Songs”. Puppetshow

We certainly hope they remembered to put the Beach Boys before the Puppet Show on the Billboard. How many times must we tell them?

The other fact that the song Kokomo was from 1988, a time in which Aruba actually had tourists is not lost in the irony either. Having a washed up band like the Beach Boys play, who hang on to any past form of glory, grasping at popularity and attention is quite prophetic. Sound like any Caribbean island we know?

ORANJESTAD – The Caribbean Marketplace 2007 concluded with a gigantic party on the beach in front of Bucuti Beach Resort, with a performance of the legendary group The Beach Boys as highlight.  There are only three members left of the original band of the sixties.  These three ‘boys’ are now being accompanied by singers/musicians of a much younger generation.  But they kept the original sound.

Bringing that band to Aruba for the conclusion of the Marketplace was a good idea, because their Kokomo Song, in which Aruba is mentioned first from a number of Caribbean islands, was a hit for a very long time and is still being played on a regular basis.  Caribbean Mercantile Bank made the performance of this band financially possible.  The Beach Boys entertained young and old for about hour and a half.  The participants could go home with an unforgettable experience. (Amigoe)

Posted January 19, 2007 by
Aruba, Fun | 246 comments

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  • Comments

    246 Responses to “Irony In Aruba: Beach Boys, An Over the Hill Band Closes Aruba’s Caribbean Marketplace 2007”

    1. Gabriel Leo on January 19th, 2007 10:48 am

      Then again many came to Aruba to watch Lionel Richie. That’s also IRONIC ey!


      SM: If you can’t hanoestly say that Lionel Richie is a has been than you really cannot be honest about much. People watched “Fear Factor” also … what does that say about some people’s taste?


    2. Miss-Underestimated on January 19th, 2007 10:49 am

      I personally like(d) the Beach Boys, they were good in the day. The question really is, is what entertainment can Aruba afford? I mean let’s face it you get what you pay for.

    3. LilPuma on January 19th, 2007 10:52 am

      I love those old songs and the Stones are still out there kicking around along with Bob Dylan. I still have great memories when I hear Rod Stewart, James Taylor and Carly Simon, not to mention Fleetwood Mac. While I also love Beyonce, the Black Eyed Peas and Justin and Kanye, the oldies can be fun. Assuming there are lots of baby boomers vacationing in Aruba, I don’t suppose this would be a bad choice. The one problem is that Brian Wilson might be the only original left.


      SM: a word to the wise … only listen to Bob Dylan old records & CD’s. Do not see him in concert you will be extremely disappointed. Its actually gotten to the point where I will not see the Stones live anymore either. The voices are not there and the ticket price way too high.


    4. beel on January 19th, 2007 10:56 am

      Well why not boycott all these companies too

      Caribbean Marketplace 2007

      American Express

      BET Jazz


      International Bank
      Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce and Barclays Bank

      Fosters Wines

      ICE Portal
      US florida

      Interval International
      Interval International is an operating business of IAC/InterActiveCorp, which operates
      leading and diversified businesses in sectors being transformed by the Internet, online and
      offline. Other IAC companies include, Citysearch, Entertainment Publications,
      HSN, LendingTree, and Ticketmaster. USA Interactive all us owned

      Travel Agent Magazine
      New York-Advanstar Communications

      World Publications
      US 20 US magazines Travel, Sport, etc. Has premiere spot in advertising on FOX sports

    5. beel on January 19th, 2007 11:03 am

      Beach Boys sale 2006 21.5 million

      Washed up appearances at Hattisburg MS, Gerogia Fair, US Congress Ball,

      Typically good research and economics


      SM: You are going to compare a CD recorded years ago to what they sound like today … You have got to be kidding.

    6. tuyvnsurvivor on January 19th, 2007 11:17 am

      Oh no, dissing off the Beach Boys…love the Beach Boys. Standard music in my old 68 Vet, it takes too many trips to the fixer also. Hey, I even sing Beach Boys music, anyone can you know…all it takes is 4 or more people who have never sang together or alone before, start the words somewhere about the same time — and there you go. We have apple pie with ours for a high and added nostalgia.

      Aruban gov is off key


      SM: Listening to a CD, much different than having their voices today being inflicted upon you. I liked the BB too, however, I would not pay $5 to hear them today. The past is the past and so are their voices.

      That is the point of this post … BB best days are behind them and so is Aruba’s … ;)

    7. Richard on January 19th, 2007 11:20 am

      There’s sort of a pun at work … washed up … Beach Boys.

      Think they know in Aruba that these guys are of the past? When I went to the Soviet Union, way back when, I managed to trade some records by the Ink Spots (think that’s who it was) for a good deal to guys on the black market by telling them that it was the latest group and they might not have heard of it. Of course, they were passe even back then.

      So here’s my line, which I hope you deem appropriate:

      And we’ll have fun, fun, fun
      When they lock Joran and Kalpoes away-y-y-y….

    8. Richard on January 19th, 2007 11:22 am

      I did write an irate letter to American Express sometime back when I got an ad citing Aruba from them with my monthly bill. They called me back a week later or so.

      They didn’t back down, but agreed that it wasn’t a good idea to feature Aruba. So far, I haven’t seen it again.

    9. Big Lou on January 19th, 2007 11:29 am

      I like the beach boys also. I now have lost ALL respect for them.

    10. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 11:30 am

      I bet Brian Wilson wasn’t with them.

    11. beel on January 19th, 2007 11:31 am

      Was it the Arubans made the song number one?

      Note BET Jazz – that false hope of getting the NAACP in on the boycott just got shot down.

      OH and boycott the virgin islands US. They had their rep – princess – in Aruba this week too.

      Theyll have fun fun fun
      when the US companies blow the boycott away.

    12. Rumba Aruba on January 19th, 2007 11:56 am

      SM, Jealous and Envious again…???

      Obviously only the Natalee obsession of some Mountain Brook people keep this site from collapsing…



      SM: You may want to get a clue … Nice to know the ATA advertizes their site on SM.

      Jealousy is making stupid comments when you have no idea what you are talking about. Stick to worrying about yourself because you have no clue about much else.

    13. LilPuma on January 19th, 2007 11:56 am

      Just so you know, I now can’t get “surfer girl” out of my head. :-)

    14. Rumba Aruba on January 19th, 2007 11:58 am

      The Caribbean Marketplace was super successful…And that’s like pouring salt in a wound for Red and Tom…

      That’s how I see it…Can’t help it…


      SM: Not at all … funny I heard it was pretty noisey in the Boy Scout tents they had up, of course that is for a later post.

    15. beel on January 19th, 2007 12:07 pm

      Beach Boys Tour 2007 US
      Minimum Ticket is 55 $ max is 340 $
      Venues range in size from 15000 to 60000.
      The number of available seats for the first 6 shows is 400.

      If SM could only do a little research.

      But no thats asking tooooooo much.

      Jan. 27 — San Jose, CA (Santa Clara University)*
      Feb. 13 — San Antonio, TX (Rodeo)*
      Feb. 14-15 — Lancaster, PA (American Theater)*
      Feb. 16-17 — Detroit, MI (Andiamos)*
      Feb. 19 — Uncasville, CT (Mohegan Sun, 3 pm)*
      March 8 — Clearwater, FL (Ruth Eckerd, 7:30 pm)*
      March 9 — Sarasota, FL (Van Wezel )*
      March 10 — Ocala, FL (Silver Springs Park, 3 pm)*
      March 10 — Jacksonville, FL (Florida Theater, 8 pm)*
      March 11 — Melbourne, FL (King PAC, 2 pm)*
      March 11 — Stuart, FL (Lyric Theater, 7 pm)*
      March 12 — Ft. Myers FL (Barbara B Mann)*
      March 24 — Chicago, IL (Rosemont, Symphony)*
      April 20-21 — Vancouver, BC (Red Robinson Casino)*
      April 27-28 — Lincoln City, OR (Casino)*
      May 11 — Charlottesville, VA (Paramount Theater 5 pm & 8 pm)*
      May 12 — Newport News, VA (Ferguson Center, 2 shows)*
      May 24-25 — Lake Charles, LA (Casino)*
      May 26-27 — Biloxi, MS (Beau Rivage)*
      June 2-3 — Laughlin, NV (Aquarius )*
      June 8 — Mescalero, NM (Casino)*
      June 9 — Tucson, AZ (Desert Diamond Casino)*
      June 15 — Wendover, NV (Peppermill Casino)*
      June 16 — Reno, NV (Silver Legacy)*
      June 28-July1 — Branson, MO*
      July 13-14 — Temecula, CA (Pechanga)*
      July 15 — San Diego, CA (Humphrey’s)*
      July 25-29 — Branson, MO*
      Aug. 2 — Ivins, UT (Tuacahn Amphitheatre)*
      Aug. 3-5 — Las Vegas, NV (Orleans)*
      Aug. 7 — Ventura, CA (County Fair)*
      Aug. 10 — Cohasset, MA*
      Aug. 11 — Boston, MA (Hatch Shell)*
      Aug. 12 — Hyannis, MA (2 shows)*
      Aug. 18 — Lewisburg, WV (West Va. State Fair)*
      Aug. 19 — Vienna, VA (Wolftrap, 2 shows)*
      Aug. 29-30 — Toronto, ON (Casino Rama)*


      SM: no, we saw their tour schedule … I heard they are  palying the casino’s in lieu of the free buffett. Out of curiousity do those that support Aruba at all cost have no understanding of sarcasm?

      You may want to check out just how much seating their are in these venues … This is the real life version of Spinal Tap.

      “So the fact that the BB used to play in 70-80K seat stadiums and are now being booked in 5-8K seat venues, does this mean that the band’s popularity is waning?”

      No, our audience is just more select.

    16. Ava on January 19th, 2007 12:11 pm

      Something tells me that if Richie and/or the Beach Boys had refused to perform in Aruba, they would be heros on this blog. I personally do not think just because a band, singer, becomes older, means they have to stop performing. There are many fans who still enjoy the music, I suppose you think Tony Bennett should stop are simply upset they performed in Aruba, nothing more, nothing less. Face it Aruba is going forward whether the SM like it or not..and yes I know, my comment will be deleted.


      SM: Something tells me that one person likes to spam a board and pretend like they are more than one person? What say you?

      I personally do not think just because a band, singer, becomes older, means they have to stop performing

      Yea, that’s right … just because a band loses all their talent and milks the public and their careers, they should still keep on singing. At this point, the BB would get booted off American Idol they have lost so much. Sorry.

      Also, Tony Bennett can still sing.

    17. vicki on January 19th, 2007 12:21 pm

      #10 are you retarded… she went in 2004.. lets see if she ever comes back… she is off to ny.
      asd far as the beach boys go, they were ok in their prime… who will LIERUBA have next…MC HAMMER????
      Hey BEEL, We’ll be glad, glad, glad
      when aruba sinks into the water

    18. vicki on January 19th, 2007 12:23 pm

      Klaas, how funny whats on the tent, did you guys do that???


      SM: we are wondering why the pro-Aruba/suspect people are so pro-BB”s. Looks like they are doing the “Joran is Guilty” tour … ;)


    19. Richard on January 19th, 2007 12:34 pm

      Rammstein, on an earlier thread you asked for ideas on what the Dutch could do in the Natalee Holloway case.

      Here are a few more ideas:

      1. Her Majesty Queen Beatrix should instruct the prime minister to summon Joran van der Sloot. Joran should be confronted with his father’s statement that he is concealing what he knows about the case because divulging it “might hurt some people,” and his OWN e-mail to Greta van Susteren, as printed on her blog, that “someday, but not now” he would tell what happened.

      Joran should then be given the choice of making a full confession or of being declared persona non grata in the Netherlands, and to leave the country forthwith. I imagine that the Dutch government has that power, even though he is a Dutch citizen.

      A psychiatric examination might be called for, too … support could come from the Dutch specialist in troubled teens who was one of Joran’s interrogators, and who said (in effect) what a weird case he was.

      2. The Dutch navy has vessels in the Caribbean, working with the U.S. navy on anti-drug campaigns. We know this, because there have been many stories on the amounts of cocaine brought back to the Netherlands on these same ships, by these same military personnel.

      The Dutch government should deploy, or lease, the vessels necessary to do a complete search of the waters around Aruba. Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch would be able to give them technical advice. Perhaps they might hire Mr. Miller to do the work.

      Since this is a legitimate DUTY of the Aruban government, the Netherlands could deduct any costs from the subsidies that they pay Aruba. Take it or leave it.

      Also, Dave Holloway probably knows exactly what areas in Aruba have been searched. I suspect some remain that have not been.

      Again, since Aruba lets the American volunteers do the work it should be doing itself, the Dutch can finance another group to do a complete search, and charge Aruba for that too.

      I think these suggestions, if carried out, would show Dutch sincerity. If not, they suggest something else.

      Hey, I think I’ll write another letter to Her Majesty….

    20. BARBARA ANN on January 19th, 2007 12:46 pm

      Beach Boys – I’m so-o-o-o disappointed in you for playing in Aruba.

    21. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 12:48 pm

      Vicki, I have no idea what your response to my number ten comment means.
      Why are you attacking Natalee supporters?

    22. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 12:53 pm


      Excellent ideas, especially the one in which Queen B summons Joran.

      I hope you DO send these ideas to either the Queen or PM.

    23. aaron on January 19th, 2007 12:53 pm

      Whisking away to a tropical island during the chilly winter months always seems to lift the spirits of those who either cannot stand the cold weather or have had their fair share of shoveling snow.

      With an unusually warm winter for fellow New Jerseyans, my vacation to Aruba did not exactly require the need to change my attire all that much. Even though it has been a winter of record high warm weather, nothing quite beats lounging on a sandy beach all week.

      Upon arrival in Aruba, the pilot informed us of the island’s 87 degree weather forecast, which made the five-hour flight a little more fascinating. Palm trees and sunny skies greeted us at the airport, and as the pilot stated earlier, the weather was indeed quite pleasant.

      Staying at a tropical resort in Oranjestad, Aruba, the 10-minute ride from the airport was quick. As one Aruba native explained to me, the island was rather small and one could get from one side to the other in a short time.

      The town in passing appeared to be very lively and upbeat, with fashionable stores such as Tommy Hilfiger and the ever popular Little Switzerland, which was found in many different locations throughout Aruba. A small yet costly jewelry store, many women were seen holding shopping bags from the boutique.

      Our resort had the classic “all inclusive” factor, so one was able to eat and drink as much as desired, as long as the laminated bracelet was positioned on the wrist. With fruity iced drinks of the day and comical bartenders, each bar was located outside under a palm tree type of hut and was the place to be no matter what time of day it was. With an all-inclusive plan, there was no need to ever leave the hotel, and many stayed put all week and kept busy in the heat.

      The food all appeared to have quite a Caribbean flair, and had either a fruity or spicy texture. Fajitas, steak and maji maji were all popular entrees of choice throughout the various restaurants located all over the busy resort.

      With activities such as beach volleyball, poolside bingo, tennis and bike tours, one could not possibly be bored. A bike ride downtown showed the industrial side of the island, one far different from the view leaving the airport. With ports for the cruise ships to dock in and run-down piers and buildings, it was far from anything advertised in the sunny Aruba ads on television.

      The resort consisted of a lush pool surrounded by lounge chairs and two main bars, while the beach was located directly behind the pool area. With palm trees and soft lounge chairs by the ocean, I was quite content just sitting and reading a few precious novels all week long.

      While lounging I noticed that various families came from the United States, while a handful of others came from other countries, such as The Netherlands and Canada. The island of Aruba speaks four different languages, I was informed, English, Spanish and Dutch being just three of them.

      By the end of the week I was sunburned all over and was learning different tricks for dealing with my long hair, which I had gotten braided on my second day in Aruba. A week filled with gazes into the clear blue ocean water and napping on the beach, and I was just about ready to leave paradise and board the airplane back to semi-warm New Jersey.

      Customs at the Aruba International Airport were a bit more extensive than those of other airports I have traveled through. As opposed to the standard one-time check of the carry-on bags and removal of one’s shoes, at Aruba International there are two of those checks, one when you first arrive at the airport and one immediately before you board the aircraft. Many were frustrated with having to untie their shoes and such again, but it was all part of the airport’s policy.

      In previous years of returning from travel (during winter months), the minute I stepped off the airplane, the frosty air was all around and it was quite evident that I was no longer in the Caribbean sun. This year, although it was in the 50s, it was nothing compared to my week of 90-plus-degree weather in Aruba, and before I knew it, it was time to get back out the long shirts and pants.


      SM: Rather comical that people feel the need to try and advertize Aruba here.

      Let’s be a little honest …. why are you posting from the Caribbean? And you are not presently in Aruba.

      Try again.


    24. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 12:53 pm

      “The Caribbean Marketplace was super successful…And that’s like pouring salt in a wound for Red and Tom…”

      What a friggin joke Rumba!

      Like many of your postings.

      Not big on the facts!!!

      …and plenty long on wind.

      Your Island is a stain in the Caribbean. That is
      why you can be proven liars point for point
      each time your bean counters cook
      the books. Maybe all the INTEGRITY
      in Aruba went to see the
      Beach Boys too? -J4N

    25. vicki on January 19th, 2007 1:03 pm

      #21-justice, im sorry while i was reponding it seems that your post came up under#9 but now is number 10…my comment was addressed to BEEL#11
      read over the article BEEL…and again are you retarded????
      I would never diss you Justice….

    26. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 1:07 pm


      “Since the disappearance of American student Natalie Holloway in May 2005, there has been aggressive lobbying in the U.S. media to the boycott the Dutch territory.”

      Edison Briessen told journalists at a press conference during the Caribbean Hotel Association’s Caribbean Marketplace here on Monday 1/15/2007.



      NOT TRUE. Add another Aruban-Dutch liar (Ed) to the already long list of people in Aruba who lie like others breathe.

    27. vicki on January 19th, 2007 1:11 pm

      Another thing, with all the ‘teens’ missing from LIERUBA and only the very young or the “older folks’going there maybe thats why they got the BB’s to play. Its good memories for the older folk[maybe] and the younger ones dont care.#23 How funny it is that you have to discribe how your trip was play by play…SAVE IT, LIAR, FOR SOMEONE WHO GIVES A RATS BEHIND….we’ve heard enough from reliable sources that sayds your Island is in deep s—.you must be related to nadira or anita…..sad

    28. Miss-Underestimated on January 19th, 2007 1:17 pm
    29. Patti on January 19th, 2007 1:24 pm


      Save it. The truth is that we have many more places to go
      and things to do than to worry about you and your Caribbean

      Remember: We are your worst nightmare! Aruba is soon to
      be nothing more than an old dust bowl with a hill in the
      middle. You will, soon, be turning your fine hotels into
      prisons for those that have to steal for their bread.

      No more fun, fun, fun in the sun for Aruba.

      No more dancing to the drums!

      Until there is justice for Natalee Holloway, we shall be
      doing the hula!


    30. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 1:24 pm

      Aaron from the Caribbean,

      We don’t care about your palm trees, blah, blah, blah.

      If you are going to target our daughters for date rape, then it isn’t much of a paradise, now is it?

    31. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 1:29 pm

      She left out the part about beaing ambushed, raped,
      and murdered and then being buried under the
      Van der Rapists pool deck on top of Psycho
      Hill in Noord!

      She also left off the part
      of the trip where the endless parade of
      Aruba Government Officials & Polis
      lie to you over and over again
      whilst you are trying to track down your
      loved one last spotted with Joran Van der
      Rapist and the taxi driving Kalpoes.

      Were those parts of her trip
      left out purposely? Hmmm.

      Maybe they could dub that
      in to their next round of
      pathetic television spots? LOL


    32. super dave on January 19th, 2007 1:30 pm

      rumba aruba: you can actually see?
      aaron : customs in aruba were thourough because they wanted to make sure that you had no way to cantact your family in case you should happen to come up missing !

      most of these musicians going to aruba are all that can be found to come to this miserable island. notice that your boy croes said that aruba tourism has taken a major blow. i’m sure you guys are just in denial. sorry !

    33. Miss-Underestimated on January 19th, 2007 1:30 pm

      Aaron, did a coconut fall on your head?

      Check out the webs cams above, don’t look like a whole lot of action in LieRuba…..

    34. Roy on January 19th, 2007 1:32 pm

      Nychic: I recognize that I’ll be wrong more often than right and I appreciate it when people such as yourself challenge my opinions….I would appreciate it even more if you just told me the flaws of my opinion so that I can look at it with my own objectivity rather than just, oooh, look at who’s visiting hate sites and come back from the dark side….. If I believe myself to have been wrong, I’ll say thank you, you were right, and move on. I’m sure you meant no ill no more so than I did in calling Mayan’s “fellow”…. I never thought of that as insulting.
      As for Viet Vet: I was not challenging his belief or even his credibility… I believe him completely..It’s the fact that the Twitty’s and the Holloway’s are walking around with seemingly different sets of facts of the case. I just get the impression that the Holloway’s and the good folks of Mountain Brook need to demand copies of all their 302′s, statements, and affadavits in order that they can see for themselves iffn they have been altered or changed in any way….Peace

    35. aaron on January 19th, 2007 1:32 pm

      I have never targeted anyone for date rape.This was an isolated incident.Aruba is safe.Remember all those German tourists that were mugged and killed in Miami in the late 80′s early 90′s?Those were never solved.The Germans never called for a boycott of US and A.I will have another report when I leave this island to follow…..


    36. Miss-Underestimated on January 19th, 2007 1:40 pm
    37. Patti on January 19th, 2007 1:42 pm

      Oh yeah… we know, Aaron. You have absolutely no incline,
      at all, about the corrupt officials. You have absolutely no
      idea about the drug manufacturing and trafficking that goes
      on in Aruba.

      You only hear the drums… and you dance.

      “Don’t worry, be happy”

      But Aruba is falling and is going to continue to fall.

    38. Miss-Underestimated on January 19th, 2007 1:44 pm

      if you go to the link wikipedia
      click on discussions..

      Read it

    39. dennisintn on January 19th, 2007 1:45 pm

      i really liked the beach boys when they were young. if they sounded then, like they sound now, they never would have made it out of the garage they practiced in.

    40. vicki on January 19th, 2007 1:51 pm

      aaron,#35[i hope]..this was not issolated it was done before many times according to Urine. He stated that! enjoy Satans Island. who cares…it may be your last visit. Hope you only bought a one way ticket…you may be out the return ticket.
      They have gangs,on such a small place, they have “suicides” hanging in plainview..ppl burning themselves up after cutting off their head and arms and then jumping in a cave…crack heads LIVING in the bushes behind HOTELS????SAFE, that just happen to be the police chiefs brother in law who was a reliable witness????
      I know that you were born, but was it yesterday????

    41. Patti on January 19th, 2007 1:51 pm

      Oh… and just to make sure you are aware: The woman that
      you speak of was mugged and run over in a car jacking. The
      assailants were seeking money to buy drugs. Perhaps, the
      same drugs that come from your island, or Holland? We take
      a no-nonsense approach to law inforcement:

      We arrest, convict and incarcerate our criminals!


    42. stevie on January 19th, 2007 2:00 pm


      I think aaron is refering to US customs…Uh let me see….They want to make sure you are not bringing back and crazy drugs from the devils island.Hows that?

    43. NOT AS STUPID AS YOU THINK on January 19th, 2007 2:09 pm

      Hmmm…. Are you trying to say all of us oldsters who LOVE the BEACH BOYS ….. are washed up “has been’s” too ????? I am not happy with the way you have presented this!!!

      Just because the Beach Boy’s managers and marketing staff made this decision — does not mean that the Beach Boys are not one of the greatest groups around (playing with “replacements” or not).

      I grant you, I would have been happier to have heard that they refused to play in Aruba, due to the situation with Natalee Holloway still missing and the “sick” cover up with the Government. But… because The Management of Beach Boys booked this, and the Beach Boys themselves are not known for their great intellect, they probably haven’t followed what has happened in Aruba.

      So…. run them down for their bad decision-making on accepting to play in Aruba — due to ignorance or… even greed… or because of “old” memories… etc. BUT do not call the Beach Boy’s “HAS BEEN” — they are 10 times better than Bob Dylan (whose music — if opinion counts — I personally could not stand) and just as good (if not better in my opinion) than the Stones.

      Also, by they way….. NONE of us as we get older stay the same…. Not the Stones, the Beach Boys, or any of the other “Mature” musical groups that the original people sing in are as good as when they were young (I once heard Ella Fitzgerald sing the National Anthem at a ball game — and was shocked at how bad she was). These people have used their voices for twenty years — and have given us pleasure — so instead of respecting them as they grow older — we throw them away and only buy their CD’s as they were originally — and not see and hear them live today because they might not be as good as they were twenty years ago?????

      This should be about the wrongs done to Natalee Holloway — not about running down a Musical Group that is WELLl LOVED by many — even if they were stupid for playing in Aruba!!

      Also — by the way — I don’t care HOW MANY Chessy lists the song Kokomo is on — I still like it!!!!!!

    44. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 2:12 pm

      aaron as yer buddy Joran might say:

      “Mulatto… please!”


      German Tourist Murders

      Miami Tourism Slowly Recovers

      Life Sentences For Murder Of a
      German Tourist july 4th, 1995


    45. Page on January 19th, 2007 2:17 pm

      I don’t think “The Beach Boys” have been following the Natalee Holloway case, I am sure if they knew all the details and what Aruba has done, they would not have done the concert. They are an American band, I wish they did not go to Aruba. “The Beach Boys” need to be informed!

    46. Miss-Underestimated on January 19th, 2007 2:19 pm
    47. Page on January 19th, 2007 2:23 pm

      The Beach Boys have their own official website with a message board. It is located at
      I think they need the facts about Natalee Holloway and Aruba!

    48. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 2:34 pm

      And we’ll have
      Fun fun fun when
      Joran’s makin’ license pla-ates

    49. Mortella on January 19th, 2007 3:06 pm

      Go here to read the experiences of some tourist in Aruba and other assorted crimes.

      It’s the Murder and Crime Thread from inside the Forum here. Aruba has a higher murder rate than the U.S. and the number of room invasions and robberies/burglaries is astronomical. These are things that happen to tourists and in the tourist districts, restaurants and other places where tourists would be.

      BTW, saw the Department of State on the sitemeter yesterday. I do hope they are on the brink of taking action against this lying Island which claims to have “almost no crime” and once stated “one murder in the last twenty years”! They are lucky to go twenty days without one!

      I thought Boyz to Men was also an over-the-hill gang and wondered if that was not why Natalee Holloway chose to skip their concert. I would.

      Love the BB but have no delusion that they are in their prime. Same for Stones. I wish they still were but the fact is we all get older. And speaking of being past its prime, that seems to apply to Aruba as well.

      Either their officials and the members of the tourism industry are lying or these posters who claim things are just peachy in Aruba are. Someone here is not telling us the truth. Even Rudy Croes just said tourism had been effected by the Natalee Holloway case.

      So which is it? Who’s lying to us? I think I know. ;-)

    50. beel on January 19th, 2007 3:26 pm

      I did write an irate letter to American Express sometime back when I got an ad citing Aruba
      from them with my monthly bill. They called me back a week later or so.

      They didn’t back down, but agreed that it wasn’t a good idea to feature Aruba. So far, I
      haven’t seen it again.

      Comment by Richard | January 19, 2007, 11:22 am

      The huge number of Aruba ads at AMEX sites make me dubious of this claim. Just to be factual I informed AMEX of your claim and made them aware that any loss to AMEX Travel should be claimed against SM. I hope you can verify the purported call.

      SM: no, we saw their tour schedule … I heard they are palying the casino’s in lieu of the free buffett. Out of curiousity do those that support Aruba at all cost have no understanding of sarcasm?

      You may want to check out just how much seating their are in these venues … This is the real life version of Spinal Tap.

      “So the fact that the BB used to play in 70-80K seat stadiums and are now being booked in 5-8K seat venues, does this mean that the band’s popularity is waning?”

      No, our audience is just more select.

      Well if its only 8000 at 100 $ a head in 37 venues then they only make 30 million.
      Oh yeah the A T & T center in San Antonio (where the beach boys are playing) is so small they hosted a super bowl.

      I do hope you have a verifiable source for that rumor about the casinos. I informed each and everyone of this claim and I doubt they understand sarcasm if the even think they might loose money because of it.

      Oh and dont worry each and every beach boy fan club in the US and Europe is now aware of your opioion of the beacch boys and aruba. As the majority of fans are 50 and well off
      who do you think is going to Aruba and whos going to listen to SM.

      Oh Vicki

      The claim you made about false letters. The woman and the peper you claim are lying now have a copy of your claim.

      FUN FUN FUN indeed.

    51. vicki on January 19th, 2007 3:38 pm

      #43-are you kidding me….like i said the BB’s are washed up but FOR A SELECT FEW. you like them fine…I used to like them. Would I pay to see them, heck no…but please dont even diss BOB DYLAN… You couldnt pay him to play in LIERUBA…and are you saying that the BB’s are so STUPID that they just get on a plane and go????Like to syberia???hahahahahaha now that I find hard to believe. This is about NATALEE. GO BACK AND LOOK ON THE TENT THEY HAVE SET UP…they are against URINE and his crew of PIMPS.

    52. The Gigantik SuperFrantik on January 19th, 2007 3:42 pm

      Yes 46, that is Charles Croes alright!

      However, something is kind of weird. His email
      does not match up.

      You see, the ones I have on file for him

      croesconsult -at-


      info -at-

      Hmmmm, that is strange.

    53. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 3:43 pm

      Hey Roy!

      I didn’t take you saying i’m a fellow as an insult, just letting ya know thats all.

    54. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 3:43 pm

      How many REAL Beachboyz are in this band???

    55. Amsterdamned on January 19th, 2007 3:47 pm

      tHIS COMMENT IS TYPICAL WHY THE CASE HOLLOWAY NEVER WILL BE SOLVED. you can write ages on this way, but is spoilt energy.

      Like Mr Holloway who was fat up with ms twitty, people will get fat up with this way (of writming) amd wil not log in on this site anymore.

      Respect is what you asking very often here, have also respect for the beach boys who have bring a totally new sound of music in the ’60, and the family wilson are still musicians who inspired a lot of young musician. e.g. George Michael, eminem and robbie williams called the sound of the beach boys their favorite music/sound


      SM: Have you no concept of symbolism? Irony? Got a clue?

      No one is disrespecting or trashing the Beach Boys … They were (WERE) one of the best American bands ever. That is not the point. They also most likely do not follow, not care about the NH story. That is sad for them.

      That is not the point.

      The Beach Boys are obviously in the twilight and downside of their music and career. Anyone who would say different is fooling themselves.

      ALL THAT BEING SAID … It is rather comical that Aruba would have a band sing at their event that so typified exactly where they are as an island with tourism.



    56. vicki on January 19th, 2007 3:56 pm

      BEEL.#49. what the heck are you speaking about …come and get me oh man Im scared… who the heck are you tacojoe with idol threats??????GET OFF OUR TRAIN!!!![Ghosts]

    57. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 3:57 pm


      You saw them on the site meter?!~ Thank You for telling us! I don’t check it very often but i know there are many eyes taking it all in.

      Aruba is a dangerous place & not just for females. Aruba’s criminals need not hide behind a palm tree when all they need to do is watch you on hidden videos in the Hotel rooms.

    58. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 3:58 pm

      #35 Aaron,

      It’s pretty bad when the police know the drugging is going on but do nothing about it.

      Dennis Jacobs even warned Dave Holloway to watch his drink at C and C’s.

      Americans don’t need Aruba at all. We have plenty of states with sunshine and beaches.

      Aruba now has a VERY bad reputation.

    59. JusticeforNatalee on January 19th, 2007 4:00 pm

      I’m sure we could all make up new lyrics for Kokomo!

    60. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 4:03 pm

      The Combover Bunny? :-)


    61. beel on January 19th, 2007 4:16 pm

      BEEL.#49. what the heck are you speaking about …come and get me oh man Im scared… who the heck are you tacojoe with idol threats??????GET OFF OUR TRAIN!!!![Ghosts]

      Comment by vicki | January 19, 2007, 3:56 pm

      its idle not idol

      lets just see how free speech works.

    62. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 4:29 pm

      lol Justice

    63. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 4:32 pm


      That Pic Is A Keeper!

    64. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 4:42 pm






    65. Patti on January 19th, 2007 4:47 pm

      I liked the Beach Boys, but they were nothing compared
      to the Beatles. I must say that I can tolerate just
      about any kind of music, but I gotta admit that when
      those guitars start wailing and the drums start drummin’
      I just can’t help myself. It makes me want to hollar:

      Boycott Aruba!!!

      Now that’s fun!

      Has anyone heard anything from their letter writting
      this week? Any new news?

    66. Ava on January 19th, 2007 4:53 pm

      Wrong SM, don’t pretend to be different people and spam any boards. As I said, if the BB had refused to play in Aruba, they would be SM heros. They are not “milking” anything..their fans have aged, as they have aged, and now kids of original fans are BB fans. Lionel Ritchie is still a wonderful singer. I also understand that the Queen of The Netherlands reads SM for laughs!

    67. Joanie on January 19th, 2007 5:13 pm

      The Beach Boys ain’t a ‘has been band’ They sell out everytime they come to Las vegas. Get a life, will ya!

    68. Allan K on January 19th, 2007 5:28 pm

      I don’t care about the Beach Boys. I don’t care about Aruba. I care about justice for Natalee Holloway. If she is alive bring her home if she was murdered bring her home. Will somebody please speak up and give the parents some kind of resolution. I know the right law enforcement would get the truth from Joran or Paulus. Lets get that done.

    69. Maggie on January 19th, 2007 5:58 pm

      The water must be up again, they come from under the bridge!

      The Beach Boys were a great band. My daughter who just graduated college this past year, went out and bought the BeachBoys Cds. What got her liking the BeachBoys was the show “Full House” Kokomo came out when that show was still on and Jesse on Full House(John Stamos) was the drum player on the song “KoKoMo”. They even had them on the show and did the song. I’m sure it helped make it a big hit for the younger ones. She then became interested in their other music.

      My daughter has read Dave’s book and we have talked about Natalee and she, like I, don’t think of Aruba as we did when that song first came out. It’s became a dark cloud. I have had many talks with her since Natalee’s story came out and Jennifer Kesse’s about staying safe. People do go missing everywhere, but they and their families aren’t then victimized repeatedly by paid liars, and the people suppose to be in charge of protecting the victims rights.

      Aruba, Jamaica.. ooooo I’m going to take you, down to the fisherman’s huts and leave you at 3am to look at stars.

    70. Richard on January 19th, 2007 6:29 pm

      “The huge number of Aruba ads at AMEX sites make me dubious of this claim. Just to be factual I informed AMEX of your claim and made them aware that any loss to AMEX Travel should be claimed against SM. I hope you can verify the purported call.”

      Hey, Beel, for what it’s worth, this took place long before I even knew about ScaredMonkeys.

      Is your name short for Beelzebub?

      Possibly beer … the nonsense you spout is suggestive that you’ve had more than enough of it. You probably are in Aruba; that seems to be the place’s attraction.

      That and assaulting tourists … and drug deals, let’s not forget those….

    71. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 6:57 pm

      LOL Hey Mayan,

      The ‘Full Monty’ is even better!


    72. Susan on January 19th, 2007 7:07 pm

      Since Natalee’s disappearance, I can’t stand to hear “Kokomo” on the radio anymore! I thought about calling the radio station to ask them not to play it, but opted to turn it off instead :-) I was disappointed to read that the Beach Boys were in Aruba recently.

    73. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 7:19 pm

      HaHaHaHa omgosh Carpe you are a riot!

    74. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 7:59 pm

      Well my final thought on this is If there is only one original band member then they need to drop the (s) & call it for what it is……BeachBoy & House Band.

    75. Patti on January 19th, 2007 8:00 pm


      The Queen is laughing?!?!?

      Believe it or not, there are millions, trillions of people that feel the same.

      What do you suppose her neighbors think of her?

      Got these girls walking her streets everynight for the taking, sometimes 20 – 30 times a night, pumping that money right into their veins while their children cry,

      “Look, Momma, here comes the ice cream truck!”

      Disgrace… Queen Bea.

      They may not care, but we are watching!

      Boycott Aruba

    76. Skyboxx on January 19th, 2007 8:02 pm

      Aruba is allowed to advertise for tourism, and they can hire whom they want such as the Beach Boys.

      We have the right to boycott Aruba, ignore their ads, etc.

      The Beach Boys were/are a great rock n roll institution.

      We can continue to protest the island leadership and ALE who fouled up the investigation. We can elect to boycott and encourage non support of tourism.

      Maybe we should seek the bands to hold a concert in support of Natalie and raising awareness of crime on these islands.

      But I don’t think guilt by 6 degrees of separation, in this case the BEACH BOYS, is valid.

    77. Patti on January 19th, 2007 8:27 pm

      I love Sting!!!

      I think he’d be good. He has always shown an interest in the politics of Central and South America… besides, he’s
      spiritual, in a way. He has alot of songs that would fit like a glove to our cause.

      Remember that song, “Dancing with the Missing”

      I’ve seen him in concert. It was only him, and his band,
      for three hours!!! He didn’t have a lead band, so he
      performed for two hours and then came back for one more.

      It was Awesome!

      Unless you prefer someone more down to earth like:

      Beelzabub and the Killer Beas.

      (just kidding)

    78. Richard on January 19th, 2007 8:31 pm

      For what it’s worth, those people so inclined can write to the Beach Boys at this address:

      Mail may be sent to members of the Beach Boys through BBFC:

      Beach Boys Fan Club, 631 N. Stephanie St. #546, Henderson, NV 89014.

      And people who want to post a message to Brian Wilson may do so here, or so it says:

    79. Richard on January 19th, 2007 8:32 pm

      Apparently, to post a message on the latter, you have already to be registered with them. I didn’t think it was worthwhile, but might write to them at the regular mail address given.

    80. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 8:52 pm

      You bet they can & i encourage ATA to go throw more millions promoting criminal island asap.

    81. Bodo on January 19th, 2007 9:05 pm

      Hey, I have never cared much for Aruba but I do like the The Beach Boys. The Beach Boys still has millions of fans, myself being one, and trashing The Beach Boys, in my opinion, is like trashing a sacred American icon. For a great many baby-boomers, myself being one, trashing The Beach Boys is about the equivalent of trashing Roy Orbison, Elvis or The Moody Blues. When I was a young soldier stationed at Fort Ord in 1965, I spent most weekends at the beaches along the coast road between Carmel and Big Sur and I can hardly remember the good times I had without also remembering The Beach Boys on the radio. So screw Aruba! But can we please be a little kinder to the American icons some baby-boomers still thrill to? The Beach Boys is one of the sounds we remember when we remember when we was falling in love.

    82. grande on January 19th, 2007 9:26 pm


      This in a nutshell is why the case is still unresolved…

      The weakest arm is strong enough, that strikes
      With the sword of justice.

    83. Mishy on January 19th, 2007 9:41 pm

      LOLOLOL I was just listening to “Pet Sounds” today :-)

    84. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 9:55 pm

      Hey grande!

      Nice to see you posting, i/we’ve been looking for ya & missing you’re thoughts!

    85. Carpe Noctem on January 19th, 2007 9:57 pm

      ROFLMAO Grande.


      I pick Colts, I am feeling dangerous. -J4N

    86. mayan_moons on January 19th, 2007 9:58 pm

      wow…’re good!

    87. Crioyo on January 19th, 2007 10:06 pm

      82. is it fictive or is it an excerpt from an email or what?
      i know this Paul guy.

      Aruba etc can only afford these older bands. Such as Beach Boys yes, Lionel Richie but also Chicago, Crosby Stills & Nash etc etc. Queen was here too for example. Sometimes timelier artists such as Wycleff and Lauryn Hill. Very simple , modern top40 bands cost too much. For example even a band such as Linkin Park charges 100,000 – 150,000 dollars. you’d never get enough people to cover that cuz the island just isn’t that big and the market is so small. So you hire these 30,000 dollar bands instead and offer them all kinds of incentives. Perfectly normal.

    88. para2legal on January 20th, 2007 2:34 am

      I haven’t read all the comments (read some, scanned others and finally scrolled to the bottom so I could say something). WHAT IS THE FUSS ALL ABOUT? So the Beach Boys played in Aruba. BFD. They need money and evidentally Aruba needs it more. Well let me say this – The Beach Boys ain’t gonna and didn’t save Aruba’s tourism. What a joke. Natalee’s still missing. The 3 perps still haven’t been arrested AND prosecuted. So what are we splitting hairs over???
      Aruba can have all the 3rd rated bands in the world they want – tourism still sucks and will continue to do so until there is Justice For Natalee. And that’s how the majority of us feel in the USA – you know, the majority of the 80% of American tourists that once fed your island. The ones that won’t let their families, especially daughters go there to be date raped and murdered.

    89. nychic on January 20th, 2007 2:49 am

      Thanks grande for the CoolAruba pic w/email

      I Was Certain It Would Be Stoned Out Steve Croes Again !

      I’m Sure The 3 Pigs Dream of The Days When
      They Were In All of Those CoolAruba Shots ?


      Roy -

      I Hope We Will Eventually See All of The Statements
      and Interrogations of Not Only The Mountain Brook
      Students but EVERYONE In Aruba That Was Involved With
      Natalee’s Disappearance -

      Some of The MB Statements Are Attached To The Civil Suit
      John Q. Kelly Filed In NY – Have You Seen Those ?

      For Anyone To Suggest That The MB Students or Anyone in
      Alabama Was Involved In Natalee’s Disappearance Is Just
      Plain Stupid – It Started As a Tactic of Taco To Shift The
      Blame To ANYONE Except His Client -

      And as you say::: If I Am Wrong On This – I Will Eat My Hat

    90. downloadingdaddy on January 20th, 2007 3:39 am

      I am very dissapointed that any american band would choose to play in Aruba at this time considering the current situation with the cover-up in the Natalee Holloway case. I for one will not be supporting any American bands that choose to play in Aruba until there is justice in the Natalee Hollowazy case!

    91. downloadingdaddy on January 20th, 2007 3:41 am

      Sorry about the mispelling Of Natalees last name, I missed it.

    92. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 4:13 am

      Well love them… or don’t like them, no matta!

      The Beach Boys will certainly
      go down in the history books. ;-)

      Take a look.

    93. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 4:34 am


      Double snap!!

      The plot in the ongoing soap opera
      about the bug lady of Aruba thickens!

      In this weeks edition of (cheesy music)



    94. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 6:05 am

      Quick Update-






      Anita could take stay home & take pictures this
      time with her new camera!?!?

      DATE 1-18-2007


      Disappearance of Natalee Holloway

      A book where many look forward to to is the book in which Joran of of the ditch, the verdachte of the disappearance of the American teenager little girl Natalee Holloway give in 2005 on Aruba, its vision on the vermissingszaak. Many publishers would have wanted this book gladly. After a firm fight between four editors, publisher Sijthoff has succeeded get hold of the rights for the publication.

      The book, of which was confessed during book grant title still no, is written by the from Amsterdam journaliste Zvezdana Vukojevic. In the book Joran of of the ditch speak Holloway concerning its life for the matter, concerning the meeting with Natalee, over the time which he spent in the prison and concerning the politieverhoren. Joran want give especially its vision in the book on the disappearance matter and also write he himself the foreword. Vukojevic have used beside interview with Joran also notes from its day book and she has had examination in police force files. According to the expectations it is published in April.-end-


    95. buckeye on January 20th, 2007 8:50 am


      A little more about “the Paul guy” in the Discussion Thread. Scroll half way down.
      .You do not have to register to read discussions at (lots of intersting items).

    96. vicki on January 20th, 2007 10:27 am

      BEEL, let me say one thing,loser…anything I write on this forum is the truth… I dont lie like you ppl on SATANS ISLAND…so if you are referring to my contact in DC…its a he and I can prove it…so bring it on little one..bring it idiots from AHATA make me want to puke. ITS BLOOD MONEY YOU ARE GETTING. SICK ANIMALS.

    97. Crioyo on January 20th, 2007 10:30 am

      95. thanks!

    98. vicki on January 20th, 2007 10:45 am

      Hey carpe,I cant believe that just about everyone has access to the police files or at least the ones they want us to see…Urine is sooooooooooooo sick to put a picture of him and Natalee together at the MB’s NY’s party… what a piece of sh__. ANITA, you have a real problem with that one…better get him some help. Might as well just shoot your little sporter cause once they get a taste for blood they just keep going after it.

    99. grande on January 20th, 2007 11:20 am

      CARPE… That image I posted and inquiry about money for information is from A COP IN ARUBA!

    100. buckeye on January 20th, 2007 11:37 am


      Can you tell me who Ruud Rosingh is (title and
      responsibilities)?? TIA

    101. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 11:59 am

      Thanks for the clarification G.

      He looks like a limp
      wristed ‘hoodie.’


      Here is something I
      stumbled across earlier
      on web patrol:



      SM:   Carpe – you have got to read in the forum, LCD thread :)   :)   :)   Last page..ha ha ha (klaasend)

    102. yoyo muffintop on January 20th, 2007 12:27 pm

      grande – interesting. Can you post the previous e-mails as well. Looks like there should be a couple based off the monetary incentives=cash line, almost as if he was looking for clarification of what monetary incentives meant in a previous email.
      I would have to see the email thread, but just based of the 2, he seems to be trying to draw out the details from you(possibly for other reasons than corruption)rather than on the take, so to speak.
      But who knows – keep us updated if you can.

    103. Richard on January 20th, 2007 12:43 pm

      Meanwhile, let’s not forget this case … and where was it?

      You guessed it … only in those wonderful Netherlands Antilles, where tourist dollars are welcome (not tourists)!

      Search Scaled Back For Missing NJ Tourist
      January 19, 2007

      THE BOTTOM, Saba — A search for an American hiker missing on this tiny Caribbean island since last month was scaled back after police dogs, helicopters and the coast guard failed to turn up any sign of him, the governor said Friday.

      Joel D. Gove, a 47-year-old environmental consultant from Trenton, N.J., was last seen on Dec. 28 as he hiked toward an abandoned mine on the volcanic island.

      A search launched when Gove was reported missing on Dec. 30 was called off after 10 days, Gov. Sydney Sorton said.

      Trail workers and tourists have been asked to watch for any trace of him.

      “We don’t know what has happened to this gentleman,” Sorton said. “We are looking into all possibilities.”

      Gove’s ex-wife and American officials including an FBI representative came to the Dutch island after the search began, Sorton said.

      Saba, a mountainous, 5-square-mile (13-square-kilometer) island that is popular with divers, has a population of about 1,500 and is visited by about 25,000 tourists a year. It is just south of the Dutch island of Saint Maarten

    104. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 12:44 pm

      Hey Yo Jo,

      Go play with your
      kids you serial toot,

      …it’s Saturday!

      G. will post the other items when you get
      around to posting the Art Wood email text
      pertaining to the body in the basin that
      you were telling Klaas about.

      (but u don’t seem to wanna post)

      You keep thinking people will forget…

      PEOPLE WHO ARE LIED TO – rarely ever forget
      those who lied to them. …I know I sure don’t

    105. Richard on January 20th, 2007 12:45 pm

      The more stuff happens, the wiser Beth’s request sounds:

      Until we get answers for Natalee, DO NOT GO TO THE NETHERLANDS ANTILLES. The life you save may be your own.

    106. Crioyo on January 20th, 2007 12:55 pm


      I think W.R. Rosingh was attorney general until february 1st 2002.

      this is the official press dutch. where croes-fernandes is nominated to succeed rosingh.

      Ministerie van Algemene Zaken

      Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties
      Persbericht ministerraad van het Koninkrijk
      25 januari 2002


      De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om mevrouw mr. drs. T.D. Croes-Fernandes Pedra voor te dragen voor benoeming tot procureur-generaal op Aruba. Zij is op dit moment senior rechter en fungerend president bij het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Mevrouw Croes volgt als procureur-generaal mr. W.R. Rosingh op. De benoeming gaat in op 1 februari a.s.

      RVD, 25.01.2002

    107. yoyo muffintop on January 20th, 2007 1:32 pm

      carpe – I just figured you had already seen it. Thought you had moved on from that silliness.
      Here ya go – guess I didn’t lie now did I? I accept your apology in advance.

      From: REMOVED
      To: REMOVED
      Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 4:35 PM
      Subject: Photo’s in Enquirer
      Please feel free to share this mail with anyone. I received an email from Blonde today with her concerns over the National Enquirer Article. She advised me that some of the members of your forum have been bashing her regarding the article and that the criticism is not justified. Please advise the members of your blog to target me with the criticism.
      I received a telephone call from David Wright of the Enquirer. David who has been an ally and friend thru-out this entire ordeal involving Natalee said that a rival publication was about to break a story on the Chicago 24 Video and asked me if I knew anything about it. I told him that I do not have high speed Internet and was unable to view the entire video but that I had received photo’s that were enhanced thru photo shop from Blonde. I advised David that I had arranged for professional examination of these pictures and the Video and that the early results of this examination were not promising. A Professor at the University of Florida who examined the data advised me that he believes the images which some people believe to be of Natalee are “Artifact” shadows of the plastic. I made it very to clear to everyone that Dave Holloway and I are very skeptical of the video and photo’s because of the fact that Dave searched the area repeatedly during the first few days of June and also because of the fact that whoever posted the video has never come forward.

    108. Roy on January 20th, 2007 1:46 pm

      Nychic: Me too friend…Me too… I’m even willing to concede a major point of difference with you, only not today. I’ll tell you when, then I’ll be gone from these boards forever. In the meantime, being that I have absolutely no clue of the true motivations of everyone here or even who’s who, I have to call it like I see it. It won’t be the last time you take exception to my posts, that I’m certain…..

      Grande: Good to see you old timer….Used to luv all the information you used to provide… That was some serious stuff….It dawned on me recently that you stated the CEO of the BLUEGREEN/????? group that purchased Laplaya timeshares and Casino was aware of the the smear campaign against them by Peter Mohammed, Lawyer for Jossy Mansur. I might be a little glossy here as I am working off memory as my old hard-drive is in storage… Please correct me where I go wrong. For the life of me, I can’t remember his name….would remember it in a heartbeat iffn I saw it again……Anyhow, this source, by virtue of his position, at least I would think, would be a card-carrying member of AHATA….if not, they certainly would have the same interests, economically speaking. I hope you see where I’m going with this….JM stumbled over those rocks big time and I’ve got it up top that Mr. Mansur has been blackmailed like so many in this case… Help here, What was that guy’s name…This American would like to write him and thank him for his contributions to the case and see what help he can provide in bringing Natalee home…

    109. buckeye on January 20th, 2007 1:50 pm


      Thanks. It is so odd. On the CIA World Leaders area,
      it lists Ruud Rosingh as Attorney General of Aruba.

    110. Roy on January 20th, 2007 2:01 pm

      Yo Yo: Interesting Article…..Dave is skeptical of the video, he should be but what do you think about them…The video…the photos as a whole….the culvert… My wife calls them “Ransome Photos” you know,…Want what’s in the bag, pay up….. I tell her if she’s right it’s probably more like, Want us to get rid of what’s in the bag, you’ll pay up….. The message is in the hand! What do you think YOYO Look again Aruba, You can find her, I have faith there are good people down there

    111. Patti on January 20th, 2007 2:03 pm

      Hey Crioyo!

      How are things in Aruba?

      Have you heard they scaled down the search for the American
      missing in Saba?

    112. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 2:11 pm

      Hi Yo Jo – er uh, it’s about time.
      ty (for nothing)

      Credits for the next one go to
      ***CRAZYBABYBORG from the SM CAGE!

      Thanks CBB. ;-)

      Valentine’s Day is coming soon!

      The Best Animated Gif Ever!!! IMO


    113. Roy on January 20th, 2007 2:16 pm

      Minnesota Dad is right… “VOID ALL JUDGEMENTS” to would be blackmailers…Can’t help but think this suit may have been designed as a conduit for payment of Blackmail… I would say be especially leery if this suit is settled out of court or Beth is not permitted to have her counter-suit heard. Minnesota Dad has shown us how corrupt Aruban judges are and I would hate to think that an American Judge could become corrupted or simply allow himself to be used to channel Black mail money! If Deepak thinks he is owed money, let him fight for it in court with all parties involved.

    114. Patti on January 20th, 2007 3:15 pm


      I think these people have way too much money from illegal sources to worry about going after money that the courts
      might give them as compensation due to wrongful arrest.

      You are talking apples and oranges.

      It was never about money for Paulus. It was about getting
      the judiciary’s arms tied in such a knot that they could never come after him or his son again. That’s what this has always been about.

      The cover-up of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway was well orchastrated… from the inside out. It must be fun, having all those high friends in high places… and who better to get away with it than some washed-out “judge for hire” in training.

      As for your comment about blackmail?

      I can honestly say that the case filed by the Kalpoes was a gutsy move. It could have put an end to this case. It was their best opportunity to speak out about the things that they know and to set the record straight. I don’t think, even for a minute, the Kalpoes are willing to take that chance in Aruba… If they are innocent of any wrong-doing in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, they would be stupid, like a sitting duck, to try to clear themselves there, in Aruba. They are liable to come up missing or hanging from a tree.

      If there was any blackmailing going on, it could have been easily executed through the use of the pictures, but there is no evidence of that.

      The thing that I find troubling is that the pictures had to be taken by someone that has knowledge of the things that were going on at the rocks that day. From the looks of it, it could have been any one of them. Let us hope that the person that took those pictures, will stand up and tell the world what he saw that day.

      There is still the reward being offered by Natalee’s family. For that reason, I don’t think that it has anything to do with money. It has to do with fear.

      Anymore people hanging from the rafters in Aruba?

    115. Crioyo on January 20th, 2007 3:18 pm


      that’s true..i guess it’s outdated and on some sites fredis refunjol is still listed as minister of education but he’s the governor.


      i’m in holland. left on supposedly the same flight as karin janssen. i get no information at all about the saba incident other than right here on sm. did nancy grace pick up on this story yet?

    116. Patti on January 20th, 2007 3:23 pm


      P.S. American judges sometimes fall into corruption, too.

      But what happened in Aruba is more than just one or two people. It is extraordinary that the people of Aruba let their own government get this bad… but even more disgusting that The Netherlands were backing many of those involved. It is the Dutch, in Aruba, that are to blame. For if we follow the money trail, it will lead there.

      Any more news or information about the Van der Sloot family in Holland? I wonder… what, exactly, do they do?

    117. Patti on January 20th, 2007 3:45 pm

      Yo Yo:

      The e-mail you posted is about the pictures of the plastic bag. Those pictures have always been suspect.

      Any idea who took them and sold them to the Enquirer? But, more importantly, why would that person want us to think that Natalee is dead?

    118. Rammstein on January 20th, 2007 3:47 pm


      but even more disgusting that The Netherlands were backing many of those involved. It is the Dutch, in Aruba, that are to blame.


      And who exactly would the Netherlands be backing?

      And furthermore, every one on the island that is not a foreigner is a dutch citizen. There is no Aruban citizenship, only dutch citizenship.

    119. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 3:54 pm


      What a hot time window to look at!



      Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
      Steve Croes is singing.

      Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am P 1181
      Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?

      Joran Van der Rapist’s flunky judge father
      tossed in the clink on June 24th, 2005
      after Steve Croes tried his hand at “singing.”


      Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
      Her decapitated body to be found.
      Her head to wash up on shore later.



      Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:49 am
      I leave now. The island is stirring.

      Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:58 am
      THEY HAVE FOUND HER. Watch your news stations
      for this one. I said this was to happen.
      You can praise The Simian later.


      They found her at least by the 27th, probably shortly after
      IMHO the criminal scumbag Paul-ass Van der Sloot fessed up
      to the fact that she was dead, and where exactly they could
      find her. He did this after Steve Croes tossed his ass under
      and effin city bus.

      Steve & Paulus were cut loose at the same times. CBS says on JUNE 26, 2005.

      Jaan Van der Stratten IMO cut Paulus loose to go retrieve
      the corpse and clean up the things that he and his rapist,
      psychopathic, murderering prick of a son had not been able
      to fully clean up already. Things that would most certainly
      hang them.

      As opposed to what has happened for the past 2 years,
      which has been John Average Q. Aruban being hung in place
      of the murdering psychopath responsible – JAPVDS


      ON JUNE 26, 2005 according to CBS. Certainly
      no later than JUNE 27, 2005. I remember other
      ALE reports that said he was held for 3 days.

      Simian says body found on the 27 of June, 2005.

      Paulus Van der Rapist allowed
      out of jail on June 26TH or 27th, 2005.

      JUNE 26TH, 2005 = SUNDAY

      JUNE 27TH, 2005 = MONDAY





      Could a flunky Dutch/Aruban judge named Paulus Van der Rapes
      turn in to a very successful corpse recovery agent.

      Inquiring minds WANNA KNOWWWWWWWWW!


      One thing is for sure. He & his son sure are
      filthy, worthless, serial lying scumbags.

      Why do they continue to lie,

      ANSWER: They are Natalee Ann killing criminals along with Dirtpack & Chemise!

      Don’t let this happen to one more person’s child…
      no matter which country they come from.

      -J4N Boycott Death Island

    120. Patti on January 20th, 2007 3:59 pm


      I don’t know much about Nancy Grace.

      What do you think happened in Aruba?

      Do you think that Oduber may have showed us one of his tricks? Now you see it, now you don’t.

      Do you think that he thought that if he could distract her family long enough, they could get away with the kidnapping of a child from America? I wonder… how long do most families last before they give up? It’s obvious that the Aruban and Dutch Governments have been stalling. They want everybody to believe that Natalee is dead so we will all go away and stop searching.

      Perhaps, that is status quo in the other islands that make up the Dutch Antilles. Why?

      Could it be that they see the kidnapping and marketing of human beings so often that they just don’t even give a crap?
      Or could it be more sinister…

      Crioyo, are there anymore murders or unusual deaths to report from Aruba?

    121. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 4:26 pm

      Anybody who could POSSIBLY
      think that Natalee Ann Holloway
      is still alive after listening
      to the A.L.E. Secret
      Polis Van Recording & hearing
      it straight out of the criminal’s
      mouths themselves…

      is most sincerely

      Read – YOU ARE STONED. IMO

      Sorry, but that is just
      how I feel about it.

      “How does that feel Joran, that is what I am saying
      how does that FEEL?”

      “You will get 15 years when they find the girl!”

      “You are going to say I buried her by the FHs!”

      “You think she doesn’t have anything on?”

      “You will see just who f’d, Coy.” (all D to J)

      -Dirtpack Klapon
      A.L.E. Secret Polis Tapes
      June 2005


      Arubay Video Vehicle Interior Screen Grab

    122. Patti on January 20th, 2007 4:34 pm


      Yeah, right! They are all happy citizen’s of Holland but The Netherlands doesn’t have anything to say about the things they do. No one is to be held responsible for their actions.

      Boy, you got an answer for everything.

      Perhaps, you should let down your guard long enough to answer a question for me:

      What is the right thing to do?

    123. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 4:54 pm

      …another hot weekend on Arapist Island!

      Come 1, Come All… step right up…STEP RIGHT UP
      and have a peep at the Pimp Beach Cam.


    124. Patti on January 20th, 2007 4:58 pm


      Yeah, we know… Dutch citizens, and their slaves.

    125. super dave on January 20th, 2007 6:24 pm

      the dutchers don’t want this crime solved either. it just might bring some attention to some involved that we don’t know about yet ! they have themselves a smug little system going that allows them to do the crime and do no time.
      old van der sweat must be a pretty popular and respected criminal to be able to keep his little chip off the ol’ block out of trouble.
      verdict: GUILTY !

    126. tuyvnsurvivor on January 20th, 2007 6:31 pm

      I did not think the SM post about the Beach Boys playing Aruba was a trashing particularly. Afterall we follow the Holloway story and have an interest in putting in a slap here and there. However, I have found a new SM I did not realize, with defense of the posting and a tad of bitter sarcasum to posters. Some over the top responses really. Running off a few readers and posters here and there can add up. Please. I suggest cinnamon in the diet for a calming and warm heart.

      I do not think any one person should so assuredly make a call on what is good music and what is not. Also, some folks would want to see the Beach Boys IF stuffed like a duck who had as well been south, and down, on many adventures. Get some humor, have some cinnamon. Thought a hacker had stolen the SM ID.

    127. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 6:42 pm

      Aruba Selects
      Miss Carnaval

      DIARIO FP!!! :-)

      Ayyyye Miss U, ain’t Miss Carnaval 2007
      a little piggly WIG???

      I wonder if they
      PAR-FOOMED up
      on that? :-) -J4N

    128. Patti on January 20th, 2007 6:50 pm


      Who are the other faces in the rocks?

      Perhaps we need to post them as missing persons on the
      streets of Aruba.

      Those sad faces, horrified! Just as the people of Aruba
      should be.

      They say no women ever disappear from their island.
      They have no crime… no murders.
      They have no missing children.
      They say how silly we are.
      The queen is laughing!

      How sad: The powerful Queen, and her “subjects”.

      Boycott Aruba

    129. Richard on January 20th, 2007 7:01 pm

      Carpe Noctem, if you take as possible the hypothesis that Joran is indeed psychopathic (considering all the lies he’s told, it hardly seems implausible), then the last thing you would want to do is rule anything in or out on the basis of what he says. No, I’m not smoking anything (never tried cigarettes or “the other” stuff), and I still think there’s a very good chance that Natalee was taken off the island alive.

      Whether she is STILL alive is, of course, a different issue.

      Hey Rammstein, all the Arubans are Dutch citizens? And you still say that the Netherlands has no influence on Aruba?


    130. Richard on January 20th, 2007 7:02 pm

      Remember also, it was suggested by some that Joran vdS indeed knew that the police car would be bugged (Daddy tends to know how these things are done), and may well have enjoyed trying to entrap the Kalpoes.

    131. Patti on January 20th, 2007 7:21 pm


      Entrapment is what he does best!

    132. grande on January 20th, 2007 7:57 pm

      Richard, Roy, Carpe, Yo Yo, NY Chic and all great to see you as well. Wish I could say the same for Rammstein and Amsterdamned…

      Roy. Fred Gilman is who I believe you are referring to. Great to see you, thanks for the kind words. I am still here, I just don’t post as much. I found myself getting caught up in all the speculation which resulted in little time for due diligence. I assure you I am doing everything I can in the meantime.

      “The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers.”

      M. Scott Peck

    133. grande on January 20th, 2007 8:04 pm

      I can see now thought that I am missing out on some great dialogue and ofcourse Carpe’s very amusing images and comments. Carpe, you never cease to amaze me pal. Thanks for the ping, you have mail.

    134. dennisintn on January 20th, 2007 8:09 pm

      dompig said the f.b.i. psychologist who examined jvds said that he was a pathological liar, a sociopath with long-term anger management problems who was used to running his house and doing exactly as he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. he said he could act like every mother-in-laws dream but was actually anything but. imo, if jvds has any good personality traits, i haven’t been introduced to them yet.

    135. postahchild on January 20th, 2007 8:34 pm

      You try to suit your entertainment to the age of your audience. I doubt that many of the people in attendance at the tourism expo would have been interested in Death Cab for Cutie or The Fray. Just a thought . . .

    136. diverboy on January 20th, 2007 8:56 pm

      Hey…if there’s money to be made, the Beach Boys will play…simple as that..thats all they care about just like Lionel Richie and others….as long as some good ol american dollars end in their pockets, nothing else matters. and as far as this lawsuit of Dickpak and Shitish…they are being used as they have always been used. someone smarter has seen the opportunity to make some money using them, if it fails… no big loss..except for the Killpoes that will end up holding the bag again…literally, like black trash bags again if they dont watch out. lets not forget, the lawyers get a third of the take, this is not like David Kock who’s getting paid to keep them out of jail. these people representing the two inbreds are doing it for the potential payoff.

    137. Richard on January 20th, 2007 10:20 pm

      Thanks for that post, dennisintl (#134). I really think the psychological factor has gotten too little attention from early on. We also know that one of the four Dutch detectives who came to interrogate Joran was a specialist in troubled teens (doesn’t his inclusion in the team suggest something, and that this background was known?), and he remarked on how strange joran was.

    138. Richard on January 20th, 2007 10:22 pm

      This summary was taken from Caribbean Net News:

      The Netherlands Antilles, composed of the five Caribbean islands – Curacao, Bonaire, Sint Maarten, Sint Eustatius and Saba – is, along with Aruba, part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The six former Dutch colonial territories have their own government, but their foreign relations and defence policies are controlled by The Hague.

      So, Rammstein, I think that the Dutch government could usefully intervene on the foreign relations angle … consider, too, that Aruba’s representatives abroad nestle under the protective wing of the DUTCH EMBASSIES.

    139. Janet on January 20th, 2007 10:51 pm

      118. Rammstein
      I give Beth Twitty the benefit of the doubt that she has sooo much more insight to what is going on than any of us …. so if this amazing woman suspects that someone in the Hague may be backing Joran …. then it stand to reason that someone in the Hague may be backing Joran.
      On the Record w/ Greta
      November 14, 2005
      BETH: …the case has been totally mishandled….I knew that early on that Croes and Janssen had butted heads about Janssen mishandling of the case.

      GRETA: We’re saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they’re keeping Karen Janssen on …

      BETH: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ….. it has to be.

    140. Patti on January 20th, 2007 11:16 pm

      I’d say their foreign relations are pretty messed up right now. It sure makes one question, why they have waited this long. If I were the Queen of The Netherlands, I’d be upset that the people being elected to be Ministers could allow one single crime to turn into such a mess. Perhaps, this business of being independent was not such a good idea, especially in that region of the world. That whole area is a hot zone.


    141. kpg on January 20th, 2007 11:18 pm

      Kimberly Guilfoyle reported tonight the Kalpoe’s have been served papers in aruba this week regarding the LA suit. She also reported they had been served papers in LA.

    142. Carpe Noctem on January 20th, 2007 11:49 pm

      Sorry, Richard…

      In my aim for a one liner to be funny… I
      belittled your kidnap theory. I would never
      intentionally poo-poo your theory.

      …and I admire and respect all the great
      letter writing campaigns that you do.

      Some of those great letters I found spread out
      all over the web today. You’ve got some of the haters
      looking at them and copying and pasting them
      all over the other blogs! (2 or 3 different sites)

      I agree we can’t really take Joran’s word for much on anything – and he is a full on psychopath.
      … Deepak’s isn’t much better…

      …but all the lines I quoted earlier, came out of Deepak’s
      mouth, and not Joran’s in the back of the A.L.E. Van.

      I really feel, in my opinion, Deepak knew
      she was dead. Joran was going to get 15 years
      for it. Murder, the only thing you can net 15 years.
      Couple that with Paulus already talking
      about a body weeks earlier @ the very start…

      ‘BODY’ OR ‘DEAD BODY’ = 6 OF ONE

      IMO = DEAD

      Sorry, if I pissed ya off though. I didn’t
      mean to be disrespectful to you.

      Deepak’s Lines:

      “How does that feel Joran, that is what I am saying
      how does it FEEL?”

      “You will get 15 years when they find the girl!”

      “You are going to say I BURIED HER by the FHs!”

      “You think she doesn’t have anything on?”
      (all D to J) -J4N

    143. Patti on January 21st, 2007 12:30 am

      The Family of Natalee Holloway

      want their daughter back.

      Not Movies,

      Not Pictures,

      Their baby.

    144. mayan_moons on January 21st, 2007 1:49 am

      Can’t wait to learn all the details on the Kalpuke’s getting served papers in Aruba!

    145. mayan_moons on January 21st, 2007 2:01 am

      O?T for a second……Just heard Kimberly talking about Daniel Smith’s death. HK Stern is SUSPECT in his death! The minute i heard of the death i jumped up & said that mofo killed that boy! It was just waaaaay to obvious
      to me that now that Anna Nicole won the battle in the Supreme Court to go after the old man she married money. Then it was told she was pregnant but out of all the places Anna could go to live they picked the Nassau, Bahamas. I feel Stern steered Anna in that direction coz he was hoping police & officials were as stupid and or corrupt as Aruba. Then there is the timing..COME ON Daniel dies within a day of his arrival. Stern killed the boy for greed, he wanted Daniel out of the cut of all those billions.

    146. Richard on January 21st, 2007 7:26 am

      Carpe (#142) … No problem. You didn’t piss me off at all; what you did is say what you thought was true, and that’s all that matters. The only thing that matters in this case is getting at the truth, and to do that we have to continue to think outside the box, so to speak.

      We know what the simplest answer is, and Occam’s Razor has it that the simplest answer is the best. But something about this case has me convinced that the simplest answer isn’t the right one.

      Some people may doubt that there’s a cover-up going on in Aruba, with a few insiders using fear and threats to suppress the others, but I don’t doubt it. The only question in my mind is: how extensive is the cover-up, and who is being protected?

      I think it’s more than a few punk kids and a failed judge.

      But anything that I say is only theories and ideas, except where I can back it up by facts, and for the most part, I can’t. So let’s all keep investigating, and asking, and refining our ideas, and doing what we can to press for answers. And your efforts are as good as mine in that way.

      Oh, yeah, don’t forget … BOYCOTT ARUBA. SPREAD THE WORD.

    147. Richard on January 21st, 2007 7:28 am

      I hope that there are private investigators hanging around C&Cs in Aruba and dogging the Kalpoes. This could be a crucial psychological moment, now that they’ve been served.

    148. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 8:02 am

      Yo Yo,

      The Art Wood email:

      Well, Art Wood is
      very smart man, & I am
      sure he would not
      steer the family
      in a wrong direction.

      I am sure he probably
      picked someone who
      knows what the hell they
      are doing.

      I’d just like to make
      a few comments about that,
      if I may-

      The U of F Professor is probably very smart…

      …but at the end of the day,
      he/she is a man/woman.

      One or the other,

      and I really hope not both. :-)

      This person could be wrong. The possibility exists!

      The original is of horrible quality. It looks like
      a shaky camera phone video. Did Art shop it around
      and get 3 separate assessments on it?

      Who knows…

      I see what I see. My eyes could be lying to me…
      many other people seem to see it, Blonde certainly
      saw it, from what I hear, select people from
      Frank’s Bank Incorporated saw some things…

      The ROCKS SITE VIDEOS!!!! wowieeee wow wow wowww

      I’d love to see those picked

      apart frame by frame.

      The Aruban Polis should be
      taken to task to explain
      each event on vid there. (rocks)

      SO FAR nobody has been able to SPLAIN that away!

      A 1 year old (aged 1 yr – post mortem)

      child’s corpse is NOT GONNA COVER
      what we see going on there.

      Some of us were borne at night,

      but I assure you IT WASN’T FRIGGIN LAST NIGHT!

      1 year old corpses do not produce relatively
      fresh looking blood stains on rocks.

      1 year old corpses do not have tongues
      that still appear to be pink.


      Those ROCK videos need dissecting big time. Lot
      o splainin’ to dooo.

      Honestly, the most completely SHOCKING revelation of the
      entire Art email is the fact that he does not have high-speed Internet.

      Mr. Wood, with all due respect…
      You are a smart feller, kick
      your heels up, and live a little bubby!!!!
      Enjoy your

      What is Economy DSL now…
      like 15 – 19 bucks?

      just kiddin :-)



      It’s gonna be Peyton’s day today?

    149. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 8:09 am

      Sorry, my link bit it.

      Here’s another try:

    150. Janet on January 21st, 2007 10:44 am

      Art Wood’s support for Natalee’s family as they have been riding this emotional roller coaster from H— for almost two years has never wavered.
      ‘Rita Cosby Live & Direct’ for December 1
      WOOD: …… But that’s why this case could be solved, Rita. The reason this case could still be solved is because there are so many people involved in Natalee’s disappearance and in the disposal of her body. When somebody talks, they’re going to all go down. This is like a house of cards.

    151. Richard on January 21st, 2007 12:07 pm

      Question for Rammstein: With all of your protestations that Holland has better things to do than press for the truth in Natalee’s case, etc., please explain:

      a. Why Aruba told the Holloway Twitty family, in a terse announcement, that if they had any complaints about the investigation they should refer them to the Netherlands, BECAUSE THE DUTCH, NOT ARUBA, IS RUNNING THE SHOW.

      Curious, eh? Remember, THAT is what drove Dave Holloway finally to join Beth’s call for the boycott. Originally he hadn’t wanted to … but then it became clear how Aruba was jerking them around.

      b. Why did Aruba, back in August (I believe), ask the Dutch to TAKE THE LEAD IN THE INVESTIGATION? As far as I know, that hasn’t been retracted.

      So the Dutch are indeed involved. In fact, they apparently are the ones in charge … and that implies to me that they can proceed as they see fit.

      Hence my letter to your Queen Beatrix: GET GOING ON THE CASE.

    152. Richard on January 21st, 2007 12:08 pm

      Sorry for the glaring grammatical error; sentence should be:


    153. vicki on January 21st, 2007 1:05 pm

      #152- Richard, I totally agree with you…I wonder if RAMM will post again to answer your questions? I doubt it. If they are all DUTCH citizens than why cant the dutch rule? I thought everything had been turnrd over to them[the dutch] awhile ago????SPINNING again…
      This Island can be called”AS ARUBA SPINS” tune in tomorrow to see who hangs next,find out if someone with some decency will spill their guts and tell the truth, or if the place continues to go down hill.

    154. Patti on January 21st, 2007 2:06 pm


      I agree… and the most sickening of it all is the fact that they release this video.

      What the ?!?!?!?!!!

      “Here ya go, Beth. This is what happened to your daughter. I was there. I took the pictures. But I can’t do anything to help you. So, please, go on. Dry your tears and get on with your life.”

      That is what Aruba has been saying every step of the way. “I can’t do anything to help you!” And all that Beth, or any of us can do, is ask why?

      Who is it on that God forsaken island, that has enough power, good or bad, to be able to shut the mouths of all those people? How is it that they feel so threatened that they would allow an innocent girl, and the crimes against her, to be hidden from her family? Why would the death of an American girl on vacation in Aruba be held in such secrecy, covered up and painted over?

      There may only be one that can answer those questions, but no one is talking. Who took those pictures and where is he? What is it in Aruba that has him so scared that he has to stand for justice, again, in secrecy.

      Someone in Aruba is a witness to a crime. Someone knows everything that happened that day at the rocks… and someone knows why. But, they are not talking.

      You know, there has been alot of discussion recently about why a person that is held in captivity doesn’t seek out help. Why a person held in captivity, but allowed to move about, doesn’t run. I think the island of Aruba has a whole bunch of people living in a state of captivity… afraid to speak out and afraid to run. Perhaps, they, like us, are waiting to hear from the Dutch. Perhaps, they, just like us, are hoping that the Dutch will set them free… but until then, they remain silent, under the power of a psychopath; and, in this case, his father.

      Oduber, with your fine military suit: Where is justice?

      Boycott Aruba

    155. mayan_moons on January 21st, 2007 2:14 pm

      Like i said vicki…..

      He (Rusty Ramm) had alotta NOTING TO SAAAAAAY! *wink*

    156. mayan_moons on January 21st, 2007 2:15 pm

      NOTHING TOO! lol

    157. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 2:28 pm

      Here is the vehicle interior shot
      of camera people on CHI 2 – the trip
      out to the ROCKS SITE, where all the funky
      looking multiple body / body-part recovery stuff
      was going on.

      Notice the purple colored hair or arm band
      on the gear shift of this truck or SUV.

      17 secs time on CHI 2


    158. Patti on January 21st, 2007 2:31 pm

      I just want to make one more point:

      The family of Natalee Holloway had, at one time, thrown up their hands in disgust, and made a plea to Aruba. All they want is Natalee. They were willing to forget the whole thing if only they could have their daughter back.

      Aruba has stolen this child. They have hidden her away from her family… and, for that, we will never forgive you.

    159. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 2:44 pm

      Here is the foot and pant leg
      of the female ( appears female )
      of camera op. of 24 ARUBAY CHI VIDEO
      taken near the MARRIOTT, Palm Beach.

      This person appears to be driving
      a dark interior styled SUV.

      This person’s hood also appears
      to be dark.

      Looks like the exterior
      of the SUV is a dark blue or
      black type dark color.

      This person appears in one video
      to fixate on the KIA PRISON.

      Filming it – sitting in the
      same location filming the exterior!

      A real strange thing to do unless
      you know somebody friggin IN IT.

      Or your working for the KIA filming
      for planned construction or some
      other business type reason.


      Also, all the graphics in the ARUBAY/CHI – VIDEOS
      are have Jamaican style sayings to them.


      Email SM, please. Thanks.

      “The TROOF shall set you free.” -J4N

    160. Janet on January 21st, 2007 3:04 pm

      158. Patti
      ‘Scarborough Country’ for August 11
      I don’t want the Aruban government to give me a penny. All I want to do is, I want to find Natalee and I want to go home.
      ‘Scarborough Country’ for July 14

      TWITTY: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she’s alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we’ll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

    161. Amsterdamned on January 21st, 2007 3:14 pm

      Is Peter R de Vries still sleeping. Just a show for two hours, and thats it

    162. Janet on January 21st, 2007 3:55 pm

      161. Amsterdamned
      I do not consider the silence of Peter Devries surprising at all. Actually, I expected it.
      Mickey John has not been heard from publicly since the Greta interview when he claimed that Deepak Kalpoe, in a prison conversation, implicated Paulus Van der Sloot in the collaboration of the Holiday Inn fabrication.
      Could intimidation related to the “powers that be” in Aruba/Holland account for Mickey John’s deafening silence? Could intimidation related to the “powers that be” in Aruba/Holland account for Peter Devries deafening silence?
      On the Record w/ Greta
      Wednesday, June 29, 2005
      JOHN: … He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy’s father, they sit and made up the story.

    163. Patti on January 21st, 2007 4:12 pm

      Is Oduber still sleeping? Just a show for two years, and that’s it?

      Hey, Oduber!

      What the hell are you doing with militants, anyway?

      Isn’t that a violation of your treaty with The Netherlands?

      What the hell were you thinking?

      It looks like Aruba is slipping away from you!

      What sha gonna do, Big Boy… call Paulus?

      Boycott! Aruba!!!

    164. JusticeforNatalee on January 21st, 2007 4:35 pm


      Tried to shut Beth up?

      Boy, did that plan ever backfire!

      Beth’s lonely voice became a chorus.

      We at SM became part of that chorus.

      Rudy, we are telling YOU to shut up.


      Natalee didn’t hurt your tourism. JORAN DID.

    165. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 5:03 pm

      Hey Rudy Croes who is doing

      your hair these days?

      Edward Scissor Hands?


      I mean,

      Did you buy that TOOP at a store,

      or did you have to hunt it down

      and kill it yourself

      with a slingshot?


    166. Patti on January 21st, 2007 5:46 pm

      Hey Rudy!

      Natalee is still missing! I say let’s have a search party!

      Who should we invite? Let’s make a list:

      The F.B.I.

      The C.I.A.

      The A.C.L.U.


      What’s wrong, Mr. Croes?

      I didn’t mean to make you choke on your coffee!

      Boycott Aruba

    167. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 6:59 pm


      1. refer them to the Netherlands, BECAUSE THE DUTCH, NOT ARUBA, IS RUNNING THE SHOW.

      as said before, Arubans and telling the truth? LOL LOL LOL. Secondly, the Netherlands handles all foreign relations issues for the Kingdom, doesn’t mean they have anything to say about the investigation.


      and then the dumb Arubans prove my case. If the Netherlands had been running this investigation, then why oh why would the Aruban government plead with the dutch government to allow our police force to come over to Aruba and take the lead in this case?

      Aruba is an autonomous nation within the Kingdom, they have their own constitution, they have their own police laws, they have their own police academy, their own public prosecution office, their own detective squad, their own regular police force, their own hiring and firing policy and so on and so on.

      All the legal facilities on the island (except for the court of Aruba and the Antilles) is part of the ministry of Justice on Aruba, not the Hague, Aruba.

      Their country, their mistakes, their responsibility.

    168. Richard on January 21st, 2007 7:42 pm

      Your remark doesn’t cut the mustard, Rammstein. (Would you prefer Mr. Rammstein? I’m willing to oblige, if so.)

      Aruba asked the Dutch to take over the investigation. They sent some people over, collected documents, went back home.

      Since then, not a word.

      Maybe they have their fingers in the dikes, like Hans Brinker (one of the best-known Dutchmen). And they can’t turn the pages over.

      They’d better get going. The Dutch did indeed take the lead in the investigation … go read up on the case background, if you need to. I can suggest some sites.

      Amidst all the finger-pointing, what happens to the idea of justice? Or are the Dutch too concerned about the statue of the prostitute that is going to be put up?

      Maybe that’s your idol, and one for your countrymen to worship; ours is Lady Justice and the Statue of Liberty.

    169. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 8:21 pm

      It doesn’t cut the mustard, why? Because you don’t like the facts of the case? Aruba wanted to be independent, well now they are.

      And of course the police is not going to comment on a running investigation. And I know more about the case background than most people IMHO.

      And the idea and principles of justice are just fine in the Netherlands. The Netherlands has more pressing issues then the prostitute union wanting to erect a statue. And for that matter, let them have their statue, women in the sex industry need to feel protected and legal. All illegal activities in that world have to be stamped out IMHO.

      My country was based on the founding father of our country and has always lived by his example. His grave that was finished in 1621/1623.

      My countries founding principles are:

      liberty – justice – religion – Strength or Valour

      And of that heritage and tradition that lasts to this day forward, I as a dutch person am proud. Just like you as a US citizen are proud of your country.

    170. Richard on January 21st, 2007 9:55 pm

      You’re conveniently overlooking (I wonder why?) that Aruba handed over the lead investigative role to the Dutch.

      Which means the Dutch accepted that role.

      Just like they took the documents back home and are reviewing them.

      Instead of trying to evade the facts, maybe you could help us all out by raising your voice in your own country (I’m assuming that you haven’t done this) and urge the prime minister and Her Majesty Queen Beatrix to get moving.

      I wrote to them. More expensive for me to do that than for you … and while they don’t have to listen to me, they do have to listen to you.

      If/when you do, please post your letter here. In English.
      I’m sure many of us would like to see the Dutch do something besides tell us that they can’t do anything.

      And while you’re at it … watch those dikes.

    171. Richard on January 21st, 2007 9:58 pm

      P.S. … I think it’s on the earlier thread that I posted the addresses for Her Majesty Queen Beatrix and Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende. For that matter, I put one for Aruba Prime Minister Nelson Oduber as well.

      I’ve written to all three. Now it’s your turn.

      Since you are so hot on your heritage and tradition (“Strength OR Valour?”), please show us how they are put into use in the Netherlands.

    172. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 10:11 pm

      why on earth would I raise my voice? The police is handling it, period. They need time to do their work and they will report to the public when they have something to report.

      It has only been 4.5 months or so since the request and the decision to take over the investigation has been made. Let us assume that Aruba turned everything over promptly, it is highly unlikely that the police got to Aruba to start gathering the documents of the case, say middle of October they head back home with the police files (copies) and what little evidence there is.

      With that many pages to read up on (with a team) will take more than a few days. We will just have to be patient with the police. Remember, they are trying to bring back to life a case that has bled out due to the bungling of the ALE. They should have asked for our help immediately.

    173. minnesota dad on January 21st, 2007 10:18 pm


      Based on your reasoning regarding the Netherlands authority on this case over Aruba (which, it seems very clear Aruba handed the investigation over to the Dutch)…are you stating that the Dutch investigators working on this case are just a sham?

      Is this what we are going to here from the Dutch investigators on May 30th….that ‘we were asked to look at the case, we did, but we have no authority over the Arubans to do anything’?

      I have always felt the whole Dutch investigators were just a sham to draw things out further. Your comments seem to intimate that that is the case.

      Correct me if I am wrong…and if I am wrong, tell me what the purpose of the Dutch Investigators is on this case.


    174. minnesota dad on January 21st, 2007 10:25 pm


      I do have to correct you. This case was not ‘bungled by the ALE’.

      You have a tendency to divert attention away from the judiciary in Aruba….which is different than ALE.

      “Bungling” assumes that ALE are a bunch of idiots that screwed up. The evidence shows, and even Dutch experts admit, that there are many, many things wrong with what was done by ALE on this case. So much so that it is pretty clear that innocent ‘bungling’ is not what happened.

      The fact that the Aruban judiciary repeatedly took actions to protect and insulate Paulus from his crimes makes this even more telling that no ‘bungling’ was taking place.

      Would it be fair to ask you to recharacterize your take on this case as ‘consistent favorable decisions made by ALE and judges to protect Paulus’ rather than ‘ALE bungling the case’???

      Thanks, md

    175. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 10:39 pm

      Wow, what a good game.

    176. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 10:42 pm

      no, the dutch investigation is a fact. But first they need to wade through all the stuff the Arubans did. They need to read the files, read the testimonies, watch the interrogations, etc. etc. etc. etc.

      Reviving cases from the virtual “flatline” takes time.

    177. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 10:43 pm

      the problem IMHO does not lie with the judiciary, but with the police force on Aruba.

    178. Patti on January 21st, 2007 10:47 pm

      Mr. Rammstein:

      You are both proud and stupid. Aruba is not independent of The Netherlands. They are part of the Kingdom. They have the right to elect their own minisers, but they are not a kingdom unto themselves. They are a part of the Dutch Antilles. As such, they fall under the treaties that The Netherlands has with the United Nations. If Aruba, which has clearly been shown, has not what it takes to complete their investigation and subsequent prosecution, then there certainly is nothing wrong with your country, The Netherlands helping in the investigation. Just as you said yourself, every Aruban is also Dutch.

      We could waste our time, and everyone’s time that reads this, by splitting hairs; but the fact remains the same. The Dutch, The Netherlands, even The Queen, herself, has come to Aruba and assured both the people of Aruba, as well as Americans that The Netherlands are looking into the case of Natalee Holloway. They have already made statements that reflect our opinion, that being that there is CORRUPTION in Aruba.

      You come here, out of nowhere, representing your country that you are so proud of and yet you know nothing about. Your country’s principles are nothing if they are not practiced. Liberty… Justice… Religion… Strength or Valor.

      Those are strong words but where is the strength in them? You are calling your own country a liar while you brag about, what? The founding fathers? How would your founding fathers feel about the condition of your country today? Was their idea of strength having a country of pot-heads and hash-browns? Would they be happy in the knowledge that your country sells flesh on the street and not just your own, but that of the many “refuges” that you take in from foreign lands seeking their freedom? Where is the liberty in that?

      Does it make it better if they “feel” protected and legal? Those women and men, boys and girls are not being protected by anyone… they are victims because of your loose morals reflected in your “tolerant” laws; which makes what many are forced to do, legal. How does “feeling” legal help?

      Isn’t it charming that while someone has thrown you into a dungeon and have lied to you, teaching you how to make your money and buy your freedom, you are feeling legal? Does it make them feel better to know that what is being done to them is legal, as well? Does it make them feel protected to know that it is legal, what these perverted assholes do to the missing children of the world? You call it “that world” like it is seperate from your own, but I am here to tell you, it’s not. You are living a lie, because you actually believe yourself. You are proud alright, too proud for my liking. That world? Your choice of words reflect your pride with out you even opening your mouth.

      You speak of justice? Your founding fathers believe in it? Is it really there in the Netherlands, or is it just something that you can “feel”.

      Please tell me, what is your founding fathers interpretation of Justice? Do they believe in Justice for All or Justice for Few, while the rest can be happy just feeling like maybe there is some justice, somewhere, at sometime, for somebody, to go along with that feeling of being legal.

      and then, please, if you have justice, let us all see it; as it has been something that is lacking, especially, in the case of Natalee Holloway.

    179. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 10:48 pm
    180. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 10:54 pm

      Double Please.

    181. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 11:00 pm

      I am rooting for the Bears next week. Been watching/listening NFL since I was about 12. Used to listen to the games broadcast on the American forces radio station in the region of Europe where I live (live close to several US/Nato bases).

      I used to get my radio and listen to the reports on the radio because in that time no station carried NFL. Now I have NSAN TV station and I can watch loads of NFL.

    182. Patti on January 21st, 2007 11:01 pm


      You are a smart man. Does it give you pleasure and make you proud to throw salt into the hearts of those that are mourning their loss of a child?

      Your choice of words: bleading out, flatline, etc. is a clear indication that you do not wish well to the family of Natalee Holloway. Why is that?

    183. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 11:04 pm

      about the statue, it is going to be put there by the union of prostitutes. I have no issue with it whatsoever. Who cares about them exercising their freedom of speech and opinion?

      about the gay pride canal boat issue. I have seen many a news report on the gay pride canal float parade. Whole families turn out to go and watch it (yes including children of 10, 12, 14 etc.) just like it was a Macy’s parade. Most 14 year olds see more sexually explicit behaviour on MTV, Youtube and the internet.

    184. minnesota dad on January 21st, 2007 11:22 pm


      When Aruban judges with clear conflict of interest, justice officials with clear conflict of interest, and ALE with clear conflict of interest consistently take actions to protect and insulate Paulus from his crimes in this case, it is not just ALE that is corrupt.

      When Paulus’ black robed buddy shows up with his close friend from law enforcement, Van Der Stratten, and amend a search warrent on site protecting Paulus….it is pretty clear that the judiciary and ALE are covering each others backs.

      I do sense that you would rather focus away from the corruption that helped and cleared Paulus from future prosecution and focus on “ALE bungling that screwed the case up agaist the boys”….Dutch Investigators need to be investigating Paulus and the favors called in by Justice, ALE, and the prosecutors office to protect and insulate him from his crimes.

      I did mention in an earlier message but got no response from you. Do you not feel it seems a bit odd that the Prosecuters office would issue a letter that stated Paulus was no longer a suspect allowing Paulus to use the letter to get his $30k judgement and further be protected and isolated from prosecution for his crimes? I was always taught NOT to put anything in writing. Why would a trained attorney and prosecuter put something in this in writing that would aid in damaging the case against a key perpetrator?

      Until Paulus is dealt with….this case will never be solved. Get the perp. md

    185. Patti on January 21st, 2007 11:32 pm


      Yes, but it’s not Macy’s parade is it?

      “Who cares about THEM exercising their freedom of speech and opinion?”

      Perhaps, if the people of The Netherlands cared more about THEM, the whole world would be better off. This is not about us and them, it is, solely, about us.

      One principle that I didn’t address was that of religion. Is it not true that the Bible teaches us that the things that you do to the lowliest, you also do unto Me (meaning Jesus)? Isn’t allowing the innocent to be victimized in your brothels morally wrong? Isn’t encouraging your children and the children of the world to partake in mind altering drugs wrong, morally? Doesn’t the Bible teach that we are our brothers keeper? But most importantly, doesn’t all religion, whether it be Christian, Muslim, or Jew teach that adultery and fornication is wrong?

      Where is the religion in your laws and, dare I ask, where are your founding fathers?

      Justice for Natalee

    186. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 11:36 pm

      AMsterdam – Gay Parade & Children:

      The minimum age for children to join him is 11.

      “From this age, there is already demand among young homos to have contacts with their peers of the same proclivity,” COC said.


    187. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 11:38 pm

      first of all, founding father___________not fathers.

      William of Orange was his name. He died for his people.

      The mausoleum of Prince William of Orange

      Liberty above all
      Liberty, represented by a bronze female figure with a gold hat in her hand bearing the words ‘Aurea Libertas’: Golden Liberty. This is the most important symbol decorating the mausoleum of Prince William of Orange (William the Silent) in the Nieuwe Kerk. On the other corners of this monument, constructed some thirty years after the death of the Prince, are a further three bronze female figures. Opposite Liberty stands Justice. A woman with the scales of justice in her hand, but without the familiar sword. At the foot of the tomb stands Religion, a female figure engrossed in the New Testament, with a miniature church in her left hand. On the other corner stands the fourth symbol: Fortitude, which means Strength or Valour. The branch in her right hand and the lion’s skin which she bears represent the combination of strength and prudence.

      Liberty, justice without the sword, religion and strength combined with prudence. The bronze figures which express these concepts symbolize the four greatest virtues of the ‘Father of the Fatherland’. They also represent the four ideals which predominated in our country from the beginning of the seventeenth century. Freedom of thought, freedom of religion and a system of government without persecution or violence. Even in later centuries, these values were characteristic of our country.


      And potheads? You are aware that in the Netherlands only 17% or so of all people over the age of 12 have used cannabis?? And that over that same age group in the USA, almost 37% of Americans have used cannabis at some point in their life?

      Same for cocain, Netherlands 0.4%, USA 1.4% use in population over 12 years of age

      (US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Volume I. Summary of National Findings 2002)

      And prostitution? Let’s not go into that now. In the US alone every year 100,000 people or so are arrested for that offense, 90% of them being the prostitutes themselves and only 10% their customers.

      Isn’t it, let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

      As long as 2 willing adults choose to have sex for money, who cares? It is stopping the crime, the violence of pimps, the whitewashing of money, the sexually transmitted diseases, the child prostitution etc. that is important. We dutch have chosen to regulate prostitution to help fight all of these horrible problems that are still associated with prostitution. And putting once head in the sand and just keep arresting hookers is not going to solve the problem.

      Again, that is my opinion.

    188. Carpe Noctem on January 21st, 2007 11:44 pm

      Rudy Done Got
      His “Harrrr Diddd!”

      Now that is what I call a “funky wah-toupee.” LOL

      Heyyy, what is the name of that special grass
      that you buy in plugs, to plant it… and then
      pray it takes over the whole yard??? -J4N

    189. Rammstein on January 21st, 2007 11:45 pm

      Never heard about seperation between church and State Patti?

      Laws are there to protect the population. Religion is a personal thing, not something the government should occupy itself with.

      As long as it does not violate criminal laws, people should not only be allowed to speak their minds, but should have actual liberty.

      Anyone in the Netherlands can go to a prostitute, few do.

      Anyone in the Netherlands can marry someone of the same sex, few do.

      Anyone can request euthanasia at the end, only some do.

      Anyone can smoke pot here legally, but only on average 3% do.

      The dutch are a very liberal people when it comes to society, everyone has to make the moral decisions for themselves. They shouldn’t not be mandated by big brother government (as long as it doesn’t violate the things we as a public feel should always be forbidden like child prostitution, crime, human rights abuses, human trafficking etc.) if at all possible.

    190. Patti on January 21st, 2007 11:53 pm


      In a sense, I suppose, our government
      is based on a religious principle:

      In God We Trust

      Good Night….

    191. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 12:04 am

      God or no… exposing an 11 year old
      child to that crap while their mind
      is still getting “wired” forming and growing -

      that is just sick & absolutely wrong.

    192. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 12:07 am

      Whoa! Mrs. Rammstein!

      What the ?!?!?!??

      Why on earth did you go into this big spill about
      your founding father, singular, as you like it?

      Obviously, you have evolved into much more than
      just a countryman bound by sound principles…

      you’ve been… Liberated!!!

      Save it for someone who cares.

    193. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 12:16 am

      Hey Carpe!

      Looks like Rudy’s got some unidentifed roadkill going on up there.

    194. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 12:22 am

      Aruba is an autonomous nation within the Kingdom, they have their own constitution, they have their own police laws, they have their own police academy, their own public prosecution office, their own detective squad, their own regular police force, their own hiring and firing policy and so on and so on.


      If that is in fact the case, I’D LIKE TO ASK
      WHY does Aruba ship evidence off to The Hague?
      Stuff that was discovered during the many
      NAH searches.

      A lot of this stuff could have
      been tested right there on the island, but they
      ship it to NL anyway? That doesn’t seem right.

      Aruba seems to want to use NL when it
      is convenient for them. They seem to want to
      shoot from both sides of the fence. -J4N

    195. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 12:23 am

      lol… it sure does MM.;-)

    196. minnesota dad on January 22nd, 2007 12:24 am


      I have never had issue with the Dutch society. Have even cheered for the L’Orange in the World Cup (their game with Portugal was a joke….especially that pretty boy from Portugal’s feigning injuries) while wearing orange liederhosen (I forget the beer company that sold me them….but it was a great deal….two beers and liederhosen for ten dollars).

      I’ve strolled through the red-light district in Amsterdam and have to say to Americans posting here….the women in the windows look like King Kong Bundy’s daughters…I am not sure any prostitution goes on with what I saw over there. I have taken in Efteling….a great and Europe’s best amusement park….even better than Disney Paris.

      The gay parade for 11 year olds is a hard one to comprehend.

      In the case of this Aruba deal….I do have issues with utilizing Dutch law as an excuse to cover-up for Paulus Van Der Sloot. It is very interesting that not only did ALE take all actions possible to cleanse evidence…but the judiciary did everything possible to assure that it would be next to impossible to bring Paulus in for his crimes.

      This is where there is frustration with the Dutch… let this happen when it is so obvious what is being done is shameful. md

    197. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 12:44 am

      LOL at King Kong Bundy Daughters!

    198. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 12:49 am

      Minnesota Dad:

      You crack me up!

      King Kong Bundy’s daughter?!?!?!!!

      I wonder if Carpe has a picture of one?

      Again, I bid you all a Good Night…

      Now, don’t post anything stupid, Rammstein,
      or I may come back!

      (Just Kidding)

    199. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 12:59 am

      The Aruba official & ALE have forked tongues but its more than that, they led Beth & Dave and all of us supporters to believe they were doing all they could. As early as the first week of August 2005 i emailed Grets;s blog saying i think the deception is going on from the lowest rank of ALE up to the judiciary.

      It was just so weird watching Arlene & Dompig & Tito everyday trying to explain why our hopes turned out to be dashed. I’m so glad we did experience it with Beth & Dave & the family coz you could never really explain what went on without the tv.

      I really don’t know why ANY American (without a timeshare) would want to go to a place that treats an American family the way Aruba has.

    200. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 1:00 am

      G’nite Patti

    201. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 1:05 am

      It give me a heavy heart when i read that children can be used for sex in Holland. Did i read right? They are going *educate toddler’s” in sex??

      I feel like Holland & other countries make their money off the backs of women & children & it makes me sick. Now they are alright with beastiality as long as it doesn’t hurt the animal??????????
      Don’t worry if you’re hurting the women & childred but pahlease……don’t hurt the animals.

    202. Rammstein on January 22nd, 2007 1:24 am

      it would be smart Mayan_moons if you would educate yourself before making statements like you make in post 201, most (and most likely all) are untrue.

    203. minnesota dad on January 22nd, 2007 1:28 am


      Europe is just a different place when it comes to sex.

      This last summer, when I took my son into a rest stop on a highway in France, he was appalled by the Porno’s at eye level on their magazine racks. In Paris, we repeatedly would go into souvenir shops only to have my daughter (10) and son (12) traumatized by sex items in the shops. My son would walk out of places mumbling, “These people are sick!”

      Having traveled Europe many, many times….they are just very, very different about sexuality than Americans. In a Swedish home, it is not unusual (or sick) for a dad to walk from the shower to his bedroom in front of his teen daughters….where he is fully naked. It is not a big deal. I believe that in Europe…with all the other crap that goes on….having a sexually liberal society is not a big deal. Seems sick, but Swedes are some of the nicest people I have met or dealt with. Its just a different culture.

      Unfortunately, where they should be conservative against Islamic radicals in their countries….they turn a blind eye; ultimately hoping that the United States will bail them out of their impending problems with Muslim immigrants in their countries. My Dutch friends have been open with me on this issue….though they think Bush is a cowboy, they know that the only ultimate protection they will get from Islamic radicals is from the USA. Shame in that their own governments can not protect them…

      So, sexually liberal with no backbone to fight a growing problem that will ultimately destroy them…..I weep for Europe in the last half of this century because it will not last….and Europeans like Rammstein don’t even see it coming. md

    204. yoyo muffintop on January 22nd, 2007 1:43 am

      mayan – I get your point, but don’t forget we’ve got some goofy laws in the US as well. Or for that matter a lack of certain laws, such as no laws against beastiality in many states, as well.

    205. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 1:51 am

      So your saying beastialty isn’t condoned?

    206. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 1:52 am

      and the Dutch don’t want to get rid of any age limits of consent for sex with children?

    207. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 2:04 am

      Minnesota Dad i do agree with you that those countrys are in for alotta troubles with those radicals, & to a lesser degree here in the US but i think no country with go unscathed when they rise up.

      I know they are liberal in europe and i don’t really have a problem with it, its just i think of the young women & wonder if they are really happy. Sounds crazy but i do wonder. The US has plenty of weirdo’s too so i’m not just pointing to europe. But its kids i worry about the most.

    208. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 2:09 am

      I know US laws leave alot to be desired yoyo. I just want the children protected. With lil Shasta Groene & Jessica Lunsford & recently Shawn Hornbeck & Ben its just to much.

    209. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 2:25 am

      It also disturbs me so that Aruba’s local sons think so little of American girls that go to their island that they drug them for sex. I know that can happen anywhere but it just ticks me off that these punks in Aruba would do that to Natalee & the other 20 Jurine told us about.

      One thing i’m happy about is Aruba’s sons won’t be so quick to do that shit anymore. We’ve popped that little bubble & they can never go back to prowling for victims.
      I think of Anita & Nadira & why they didn’t teach their sons to treat girls & young women better. Their sons don’t think much of women & all they can say is “We All Lie Big People lie and Anita asking why would anyone would get in a car with her son.

    210. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 2:31 am

      It says ALOT about Anita & Nadira that their sons treat girls the way they do, an none of its very good.

    211. mayan_moons on January 22nd, 2007 2:40 am

      To do what those punks did to Natalee on the last day of her vacation is just soooooo f’d up. The lure of Americans to come to their island & then be treated that way?? Thats what makes me crazy and very very angry, and why i’ll never stop doing all i can to hurt Aruba the only way we can & thats in their wallet.

    212. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 7:48 am

      Americans are from Mars

      Dutch are from Venus

      nad the Van der Rapes are from down yonder near Uranus. :-)

      Oh, that was real mature.


      Hey Ram

      11 year olds participating in gay pride parades!?!?

      11 year olds can’t even effin figure out
      which flavor ice cream
      they like best yet?

      Explain up on that, dude.

      Are the pedos people too? Freedom
      of speech, and all that jazz? Sick-J4N

    213. Richard on January 22nd, 2007 7:51 am

      By the way, Rammstein, my understanding is that Holland is going to move away from its “Red Light district” philosophy, on the ground that there is no effective way to stop violence against the practitioners. I heard this at a seminar last year from a women’s group.

      But anyway, it’s not fair to assail Rammstein for the ills and imperfections of Dutch society, nor do we need a lecture on William of Orange, or for that matter William the Silent or the Count of Egmont, whose name I forget.

      What we DO need is for Holland to live up to its responsibilities in the probe into the Natalee Holloway case, as for some months it apparently has been in charge of that.

      Rammstein, if you care to write to your elected officials and monarch, urging them to get going, I’m sure that we’d all be grateful and appreciative. Please post copies of your letters.

      If you choose not to, however, then please tell us what alternative ideas you have for those of us who are determined to see justice prevail and to contribute in this quest. Telling us why your nation can’t/won’t do anything is not going to deter us.

      And don’t forget … go check those dikes. They may be leaking.

    214. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 8:10 am


    215. Janet on January 22nd, 2007 10:21 am

      Logic dictates that the Dutch judge who deemed that a political party …. that advocates sex with children …. can be formed is wrong … wrong … wrong.

      The lack of maturity implies that children will consent to partipant in many activities that are not in their best interest. It is the God-given responsibility of parents/adults/authority to establish boundaries/laws that are meant to protect children from being taken advantage of by those with selfish and sick agendas.
      Thankfully, many Dutch recognize the dangers encompassing this party’s agenda and are opposing the judge’s decision.
      Dutch will allow paedophile group
      A Dutch court has turned down a request to ban a political party with a paedophile agenda.
      Judge HFM Hofhuis ruled that the Brotherly Love, Freedom and Diversity Party (PNVD) had the same right to exist as any other political party.
      The PNVD was formed by three paedophiles in May, prompting outrage in Dutch society.
      It seeks to lower the age of sexual consent from 16 to 12 and legalise child pornography and sex with animals.
      “Freedom of expression…including the freedom to set up a political party can be seen as the basis for a democratic society,” Judge Hofhuis said in the ruling, according to the Associated Press news agency.
      “It is the right of the voter to judge the appeal of political parties,” he said.
      The ruling also noted that the party had not committed a crime.
      PNVD’s opponents had sought the ban, arguing that children had the right not to be confronted with the party’s platform.
      The PNVD – which has only three known members – says its aim is to break taboos and fight intolerance.
      It says it wants paedophilia to be freely discussed, arguing that a ban just makes children curious.
      They claim the subject has been a taboo since the 1996 Marc Dutroux child abuse scandal in Belgium.
      They also want to break the “negative” stigma surrounding paedophilia by getting into parliament.
      But the PNVD says it is not just a one-issue party.
      It also wants children from the age of 12 to be able to vote. It promotes the legalisation of hard and soft drugs and free train travel for all.
      In order to take part in elections set for 22 November, the PNVD needs to submit a list of candidates and signatures of at least 30 supporters.

    216. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 10:26 am

      Some monkeys on the inside thread are having fun with this site:

      You can write a message, such as “Justice for Natalee” and it appears in the snow.

      Have a little fun, monkeys, but only after your letters to the queen are done.

    217. Miss-Underestimated on January 22nd, 2007 10:32 am

      Whose gonna pose for the hooker statue?

      Just alot of flim flaning between Holland and Aruba.
      Has Holland given a statement as to the status of the investigation?

      Hey do you ever wonder why certain families (by the grace of God,have no daughters)

    218. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 11:06 am


      what Janet, JFN, and Miss-U said!

      Good to see you back posting Miss-U.

    219. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 11:37 am

      Justice for Natalee,
      kewl thanks for sharing!

      Here is my entry.

    220. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 11:40 am

      When it comes to issues concerning violent crimes against
      children, you are either part of the solution or part of
      the problem, there is no gray area.

      Does anyone have any information regarding the papers served
      concerning the Dr. Phil lawsuit and the civil suit filed
      against the Kalpoes?

      I’m just curious where that stands.

    221. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 11:53 am

      Very tasteful message, Carpe.
      Your self-restraint is admirable!

      To all you lurkers and crybabies who want to blame Natalee or the American public for the boycott.

      GET A CLUE:


      That’s right! They are the ones!

    222. Patti on January 22nd, 2007 11:53 am

      One more question:

      Waterboy, Jerry has been inquiring about information on a girl that went missing from Aruba a year before Natalee.

      Do we have any information, either about her abduction or
      about her recovery?

    223. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 11:55 am

      Okay, peeps,

      Get those letters going to the queen.

      Please make sure to at least cc the PM.
      (Oduber, too, if you like)


    224. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 11:58 am

      #221 Whoops! That should read CORRUPT ALE MEMBERS

      (too quick on the “submit” button) LOL

    225. Roy on January 22nd, 2007 12:27 pm

      Patti: I’m just passing thru and on my way to work but will stop by tommorow if I get the chance. WRT there being no evidence of blackmail in those photos…sure there is… that just depends upon a willingness to accept the possibility of blackmail in this case. I assure you, there is loads of evidence in those photos of blackmail. Not only that, simple reasoning that can be applied to show that the story of Mickey John and the security guard is all a lie out of Aruba…..And if that’s a lie then the story of “The family made up the story” by the security guard is a lie too….And also why I have abandoned the Natalee was cremated theory. Hope to talk to you later, Roy


      SM:   Roy – you had Patti’s name in the name area instead of Roy – I fixed it so there’d be no confusion (klaasend)

    226. Carpe Noctem on January 22nd, 2007 1:25 pm

      Justice for Natalee-

      What is the postage to send that
      old “Royale With Cheese”
      Beatrix bag
      a letter?

      I will be respectful to
      her IN THE LETTER!

      …not because I have respect for that
      noxious wheeze bag, because I don’t.

      I can’t stand the way that coughed up hairball
      has acted throughout the NAH tragedy.

      It is simply deplorable.

      I will be respectful out of deference
      to Natalee’s family
      and friends when
      I write.

      What does the stamp run?


    227. JusticeforNatalee on January 22nd, 2007 1:41 pm

      84 cents postage, Carpe

    228. Monterey Mac on January 22nd, 2007 1:53 pm

      I don’t know much about this whole Natalee Holloway thing except what I’ve seen on CNN, but I do know something about the Beach Boys. The band that played in Aruba was the Beach Boys basically in name only. The only original (of the original five) in that band is Mike Love, who has sued the other survivng members (the great Brian Wilson and Al Jardine) to keep the Beach Boys name. Wilson, the real genius behind the band, has been touring for several years and recently added Jardine to various tour stops. So the REAL Beach Boys are Wilson/Jardine, not Love and his band of imposters (Bruce Johnstone doesn’t really count as a real Beach Boy). And Wilson/Jardine are far from “wahsed up” They’re still performing vibrant, passionate, fun music. So get it right Aruba!

    229. Rammstein on January 22nd, 2007 4:15 pm


      Janet, the dutch judge did not forbid the pedophile party because the law doesn’t allow him to forbid this party.

      Political parties can only be forbidden if they commit crimes with their political manifesto and their ideas.

      Political parties have been forbidden in the Netherlands, but that is only possible if they are in violation of the laws in the Netherlands.

      Virtually all forbidden parties had extreme right wing racist and discriminatory ideas and party platforms. Thus they violated the constitution/law with their opinions.

      This pedophile party did not violate the law by proposing changing the law to allow younger children to have sexual relations with older people. Wanting to change the law in itself is not a crime and therefor the judge could not forbid this party.

      As long as the politicians in the Netherlands do not change the law regulating the grounds a judge may use to outlaw a party, then it will be impossible for the judge to forbid parties like the pedo-party.

      Our judges are namely not allowed to create/form law with their rulings and thus have to keep strictly to the law.

    230. Patti on January 23rd, 2007 11:57 am


      You miss the point:

      We aren’t saying that the Judges should have outlawed the party. We are saying that the Judges should never have allowed their proposals to be taken seriously enough to place on the ballot at all.

      But, in reality, even that doesn’t matter. The things that they want to be allowed to do legally, they are already doing anyway. The fact that your government would even entertain the idea of having these proposals passed, is most telling of the morality that is virtually non-existent in your country.

      While you’re right, morality is something personal, as is religion; I have a very hard time putting much credence in a country that promotes such acts.

      What ever happened to social responsibility?

      Remember, there are literally hundreds of thousands of people trafficked every year. How many are lying in your pastures?

    231. Rammstein on January 23rd, 2007 6:00 pm

      And you seem to miss my point.

      The day judges are going to determine what political parties may think (if it does not infringe on the constitution or criminal laws) is they day we may as well turn dictatorships.

      If a political party wants to abolish the dutch royal family they will not find a lot of support, but may their freedom of thought and speech be forbidden by a judge (again, if it does not break the law).

      The US is a country based on the principle of free speech.

      And your comment about our government entertaining the idea of passing these proposals is a clear sign you haven’t got a clue on earth with regards to my country.

      Our government would never never never never never never ever entertain anything even remotely like what these sick perverts want. You have no clue on earth what the morality of my country is.

      And “a country that promotes such acts” is another clear clue of absolute ignorance regarding the attitudes in my country.

    232. Patti on January 24th, 2007 11:41 pm


      The truth is that Holland has:

      Legalized Prostitution

      Legalized Child Pornography

      Legalized Same-Sex Marriages

      Legalized Marijuana Use

      Legalized Euthanasia

      Legalized Beastiality

      The tolerance in your country has become like a plague that has left the rest of the world to deal with a very violent criminal element that has grown to epidemic proportions.

    233. Rammstein on January 25th, 2007 3:03 am

      bull crap Patti.

      Yes, prostitution is legalized, but so is it for example in some areas of the US (and countless other places in the world). Only a fool/idiot thinks that prostitution is something you can prevent/forbid. All you are doing is spending millions and millions of dollars in preventing consenting adults to sleep with each other for a fee. If all those millions of dollars and police hours would be spent at preventing forced prostitution, pimp violence, child prostitution and criminals using prostitution to launder money, the world would be a lot better place IMHO.

      Legalized child pornography? are you insane? Stop spreading dumb lies about my country. Any image of child prostitution is illegal in my country.

      Yeah, wow, our gays and lesbians are allowed to have a civil wedding ceremony by which they have gained equal rights to straight couples, how terrible.

      Yes, legalized use of marijuana. A fantastic idea if you ask me. It discourages use of it and keeps the jails free to deal with the real drugs criminals.

      Yes, “we the people” have decided that humans have the right to die with dignity. If you don’t like it, tough luck. Nobody is forced into it and my grandfather died because of it to not let his suffering continue. And again,OUR COUNTRY and “we the people” have chosen.

      Legalized beastiality? Well, it is not illegal in more countries but we are thinking about forbidding it but more from a viewpoint of welfare for animals than out of nanny-state moral rules. It is already forbidden if it harms the animal.

      The tolerance in my country a plague, it is the human race entering into the 21st century and beyond. And you, lecturing us about violent criminal element that has grown out to epidemic proportions LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL.

      Have you checked the crime records of my liberal society with YOUR society? You live in a country that is incredibly more violent then mine will ever be. Last year we even set a record in the least violent death since years and years. In our country we had less than 200 murders/manslaughters last year. Only in the murder department our country has murder/manslaughter figures that are about 1/5 of those in the US.

      You deal with your violence first before lecturing countries that have so much less violent and other crime than you have.

    234. Rammstein on January 25th, 2007 3:12 am

      I like Americans and I have great friendships with Americans but I don’t need to stand by and have my country insulted like this.

      I try never to insult the US even for policies I strongly disagree with. I may disagree and give facts and figures as to why I think our ways are just as good but I think it is “we the people” who decide about what goes in our own country.

    235. Patti on January 25th, 2007 3:43 pm


      The only reason for the difference in crime rate between my country and yours is because we fight crime in my country while your country condones it.

      You want to compare numbers of crimes while it is a fact that Holland is bearly the size of many states? You have 1/5 the number of murder/manslaughters while it is probably safe to say that your population is about 1/20 of the size of the U.S. The estimated population of the U.S. is 300 million people while The Netherlands is approximately 16.5 million. How do you like your numbers, now?

      You say you like Americans? Well, guess what? We don’t like you.

      Our women and children are lying, dead, in your pastures!

    236. Patti on January 25th, 2007 3:47 pm


      In case you haven’t noticed, this site is about one of them!

    237. Rammstein on January 25th, 2007 6:44 pm

      Patti, how dumb do you think I am (pretty dumb if I see your remarks).

      In the Netherlands, there live 16.3 million Dutch people and in the USA there are 300 million.

      Those 300 million in 2005 committed 16,692 murders and non-negligent manslaughter.

      The 16.3 million in the Netherlands in 2005 committed 201 murders and manslaughters.

      Now for the really smart, if you divide 16,692/300 million and multiply that by 100,000 you will get the murder/manslaughter rate per 100,000 citizens in the US, the same calculation can be made for the Netherlands:

      16692/300,000,000*100,000 = 5.564 murders per 100,000 in the USA

      201/16,300,000*100,000 = 1.233 murders per 100,000 in my “epidemically violent country” of the Netherlands

      Or as it would read in general statistics 5.6 murders per 100,000 compared to 1.2 murders per 100,000 people.

      Now that Patti is almost 1/5 of the rate of US murders.

      If the Netherlands were as large as the US we would have just over 1/5 the murder/manslaughter victims as the US has.


      Then there is rape/sexual crimes

      In the US, 300,000,000 US citizens committed 93,934 Forcible rapes in 2005

      In the Netherlands statistic 1,540 rapes committed by 16,300,000 dutch people.

      Now for the US we will get 31.3 forcible rapes per 100,000 Americans.

      Now for the Netherlands the figure is 9.4 forcible rapes per 100,000 dutch citizens.

      Making the Netherlands (the country you foolishly and incorrectly describe as “like a plague that has left the rest of the world to deal with a very violent criminal element that has grown to epidemic proportions”) more than 3 times more safe for women as the USA.

      And virtually all crime calculates like this.

      And once again, you may dislike our liberal laws but that does not give you a carte blanche to lie about my country when it comes to crime.

    238. Rammstein on January 25th, 2007 6:46 pm

      and just because Joran is the suspect and most likely killer/rapist of Natalee does not make my country like a plague that has left the rest of the world to deal with a very violent criminal element that has grown to epidemic proportions.

      Those who sit in glass houses better be careful before starting to throw stones at other people.

    239. Patti on January 25th, 2007 9:48 pm


      Like I said before, we are fighting crime, while you are condoning it.

      What has happened here? You came on to an American site to converse with Americans about your astounding amount of knowledge that you have concerning the Natalee Holloway case. Upon delving into that knowledge we find that, the truth be told, you have nothing to offer us… ZILCH!

      I am an advocate for women. I, like many others here, are interested in getting justice for Natalee Holloway as well as the many other women that fall victim to sexual predators. I am not interested in argueing with you or anyone who neither cares nor can do anything about it.

      Obviously, this is fun for you, and although I don’t think that you are stupid, I have wasted too much time and probably given you way too much pleasure as it is. There has been nothing accomplished by our rantings… so I bid thee farewell.

      Ta – Ta

    240. Patti on January 25th, 2007 10:18 pm
    241. Rammstein on January 25th, 2007 10:39 pm


      The Netherlands is a destination and transit country for the trafficking of women and girls for the purpose of sexual exploitation; some trafficking for labor exploitation occurs. Victims continued to be trafficked from Central and Eastern Europe, Nigeria and Brazil. Reportedly, a significant percentage of the 25,000 individuals engaged in prostitution are trafficking victims. Internal trafficking of young, mostly foreign girls by Moroccan and Turkish pimps into sexual exploitation continued. The Netherlands Antilles, where the Netherlands exercises responsibility over visa issuance according to guidelines issued by the Netherlands Antilles, continued to be a concern as a transit region and destination for illegal migrants, some of whom may have been trafficked.

      The Government of the Netherlands fully complies with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking. In 2005, the government significantly stepped up its law enforcement and prevention efforts to address trafficking in persons. The Dutch government investigated, prosecuted, and convicted more traffickers, and increased its outreach efforts to potential trafficking victims in regulated prostitution sectors. The Dutch government continued to provide comprehensive protection and assistance to victims and increased resources and tools available to NGOs. International scrutiny continued to focus on the legalized commercial sex industry in the Netherlands. The government should ensure its assessment of trafficking in the legalized sector includes a systematic and sensitive screening of all potential trafficking victims, including in the red light district.

      The Government of the Netherlands vigorously investigated and prosecuted cases of trafficking during the reporting period. Dutch police investigated 220 suspects of trafficking in 2004. The government prosecuted 253 traffickers, a significant increase from 174 in 2003. Dutch courts convicted 136 traffickers; the majority of sentences ranged from three months’ to four years� imprisonment. In 2005 a district court handed down a 14-year sentence for one trafficker in a case involving three African victims; four other traffickers in the case received sentences of five to 10 years. In May 2005, a national expertise center, overseen by the national trafficking prosecutor, began carrying out its mandate to bring together various Dutch investigatory bodies on trafficking cases and to serve as a national resource on investigations and prosecutions. The government, through the expertise center and other forums, continued to conduct specialized training for police, attorneys, inspectors, and other government officials. In 2005, five Dutch men were convicted in a local district court for organizing child sex tours to Tunisia for sex with minors; the men received sentences between one and three and a half years. There was no evidence of official corruption or trafficking-related complicity.

      The government reported that strict controls and licensing requirements for brothels were employed as a means of combating trafficking. The Amsterdam police reported that routine checks of brothels did not show evidence of exploitation; during the reporting period these checks did not result in the identification of any trafficking victims, although there are continued reports of victims in legal red light zones. The police also reported difficulty in carrying out effective controls in the unregulated sectors, such as escort services.

      The Dutch government in 2005 continued its leadership, capacity building and funding for service providers and NGOs assisting trafficking victims throughout the Netherlands. Local governments independently funded trafficking shelters and regional networks of NGOs while law enforcement officials coordinated the provision of comprehensive services and protection to victims who assisted in prosecutions. The Dutch Foundation Against Trafficking in Persons (STV), the national reporting center for registration and assistance for trafficking victims, registered 424 trafficking victims in 2005, a modest increase from the 405 registered in 2004. It launched a website and distributed a manual as a practical tool for service providers providing victims with support. The government funded training and reintegration programs implemented by NGOs to assist victims with B-9 status � temporary residency granted for trafficking victims � to develop skills needed to find employment. One program reported that 45 B-9 recipients participated in its training program; 10 have found jobs since the regulation permitting B-9 victims to work went into effect in April 2005.

      In January 2006, the Dutch government launched a national outreach campaign to reduce trafficking in the prostitution sector. The campaign, managed by the Dutch anonymous crime reporting hotline, primarily targets the clients of women in prostitution and potential victims of trafficking, as well as members of the general public. The campaign reportedly promotes awareness of the warning signs of trafficking and encourages individuals to report potential victims to police or call the hotline. In June 2005, the Justice Ministry distributed victim identification and reintegration guidelines to government officials, including to Dutch consular officers abroad, and NGOs, to encourage increased identification of and assistance to trafficking victims. In 2005, as required by the 2000 law that lifted the ban on brothels, the Ministry began its second assessment of the prostitution sector, including the number of women trafficked into prostitution. As part of the study, women in prostitution in Amsterdam�s red light district and other prostitution sectors will be interviewed away from brothels and their possible traffickers. In September 2005, the Justice Ministry signed a covenant with Dutch newspaper associations committing parties to prevent advertising by unregistered escort services, an industry increasingly exploited by traffickers. The Dutch government committed $21.3 million dollars between 2004 and 2006 to fund anti-trafficking programs in other countries, particularly source countries for trafficking victims in the Netherlands.

    242. Rammstein on January 25th, 2007 10:56 pm

      We condone crime LOL LOL LOL LOL another lie based on nothing more than fiction. We have allocated more than enough resources to fight crime, and our crime-statistics prove that we are on the right way. You may feel your way is best, we think ours is just as good.

      And yes, I came upon an American site to discuss this case with any and all people on that site, but I never said I came here to converse about my astounding amount of knowledge in this case. I have my thought and opinions on this case and guess what, I don’t have to justify my posting here to you anyway.

      And I don’t care for justice for Natalee or for other victims of sexual abuse? You should try to get to know people before making such stupid and ignorant remarks about me.
      My family and myself have always advocated for women and women’s rights. Your remarks are an insult to my dearly departed grandmother who helped with the liberation of women from societal oppression (both sexual and spiritual).
      You don’t know crap about me, so stop peddling lies about me and how I feel about justice for Natalee and justice for all victims of sexual crimes.

      And fun?? Pleasure?? Really? You think debunking lies is fun? I don’t. I find it a necessary evil for stopping the bad mouthing of my country based on lies and distortions of the truth.

    243. Patti on January 26th, 2007 12:51 am

      Mr. Rammstein:

      What ya gonna do about it, Big Boy?

      You seem to have blown a fuse.

      Either that or you have completely lost your mind!

      Take some advise: Exercise your necessary evil elsewhere.

    244. Patti on January 26th, 2007 1:06 am

      “International scrutiny continued to focus on the legalized commercial sex industry in the Netherlands”

      Is that what you want?

      Sorry, Buddy, no can do.

    245. Patti on January 26th, 2007 1:38 am

      Let’s read a little further:

      International scrutiny continued to focus on the legalized commercial sex industry in the Netherlands. The government should ensure its assessment of trafficking in the legalized sector includes (including) a systematic and sensitive screening of all potential trafficking victims, including in the red light district.

      You and your country are a joke!

      Allowing 10 year-olds to participate in a “gay” parade
      in which it’s participants are scantly clothed or nude

      Allowing the red light district to be held up as a tourist

      Allowing nude children to be photographed and posted in magazines along with sexually explicit material

      Allowing a bronze statue of a prostitute to be erected to
      represent safety

      The list goes on…. and on…. and on.

      Like I said: Exercise your necessary evil elsewhere!

    246. Rammstein on January 26th, 2007 9:36 am

      Like I said, it is not up to you when and if I post here. It is up to me and the owner of this site.

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