RSSMSNBC Tonight: Two Exclusive Interviews on Scarborough Country
Tonight on Scarborough Country there will be two “exclusive interviews”. The first will be MARTIN SAVIDGE, NBC CORRESPONDENT at 10.00pm continuing his interviewing Caren Janssen the newly appointed spokes person and lead prosecutor from Aruba.
See the video of Martin Savidge with Caren Janssen courtesy of Blogs For Natalee
The second will be Joe Scarborough at 10:15 pm doing an interview with Marcia Twitty regarding the newly started, LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY, “NOTES FOR NATALEE”.
See the video of Marcia Twitty discussing the letter writing campaign courtesy of Blogs fro Natalee.
This is a letter writing campaign started by family friend Sunny Tillman in hopes of creating and maintaining pressure for authorities to do everything possible to find Natalee Holloway. Everything starts at the grass roots and she is asking that we all take a little time out of our day and make a difference.
The letter from Sunny requests the following:
Please send a hand written note to the Ambassador at the Royal Netherlands Embassy in Washington, DC asking for the continued support from Holland in the search for Natalee Holloway. This campaign is intended to reflect the class, and dignity displayed by Natalee’s mother Beth over the past few weeks, and we ask that the content s of your letters do this as well. The goal of this campaign is to illustrate in numbers of mailed letters the number of American who care about Natalee and her family. We would ask out Scared Monkey readers to take a moment out of their day.
Suggested text …
Dear Mr. Ambassador
America wants to encourage you to do all you can to help find Natalee Holloway by supporting the use of state of the art technology in the investigation, and continuing to lend other technical support to the effort. We all thank you very much for your help and for your concern.
Address:
Mr. Boudewijn Johannes Van Eenennaam
Dutch Ambassador to the United States
The Royal Netherlands Embassy
4200 Linnean Ave, NW
Washington, DC 20008
(On the front of the envelop put, “PLEASE FIND NATALEE”
*********************************
Family of Natalee Holloway starts letter writing campaign
By JAY REEVES AP:
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — Trying to keep up the pressure to find an Alabama teenager missing in Aruba, relatives of Natalee Holloway began a letter-writing campaign Wednesday seeking more Dutch assistance in the search. Family friend Sunny Tillman said Holloway’s relatives are “very appreciative” of the aid already provided by the government of Holland and hope the country will continue assisting in Aruba, a Dutch protectorate. Tillman and others are distributing e-mails asking people to pen short notes and mail them to the Dutch ambassador in Washington. The suggested text reads: “America wants to encourage you to do all you can to help find Natalee Holloway by supporting the use of state of the art technology in the investigation, and continuing to lend other technical support to the effort. We all thank you very much for your help and your concern.” Tillman said supporters hoped the campaign would spread nationally. “We’re asking people to show they care by taking a minute and writing a note,” she said. Dozens of Dutch Marines have assisted in searches for Holloway, and a government spokesman said the troops were prepared to provide additional assistance.
Holloway, from the Birmingham suburb of Mountain Brook, has been missing since May 30, when she failed to show up for the flight home to Alabama after a graduation trip to Aruba. A Dutch teenager and two Surinamese brothers are being held in Holloway’s disappearance, but numerous searches of the small, Caribbean island have failed to turn up clues on her whereabouts. Holloway, 18, is an honors student scheduled to attend the University of Alabama this fall.
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Comments
1,010 Responses to “MSNBC Tonight: Two Exclusive Interviews on Scarborough Country”
Boycott Aruba! Chris are u there? I Yell Chris where r u?
I miss Chris — his Danish wife is a cheese eating heffer!
Checkme
Are you still around or did you houdini??
It’s tough communicating on this board…
I thinks it’s because they were turning off two previous pages. Cuà ©ntame algo …
Kitchen reasonably clean…lol You OK? Yday youseemed a little upset.. tell me… Did you get my yahooreply today?
Upset??? No I wasn’t upset. It was late here, so I was brief. That’s all. What time is it there???
Heard Beth threatens to go to the press unless she is given more info.
I always thought she knew more than the news we hear.
What would you like me to tell you?
Yes, I read it and I’ll follow your advise about not refraining. Whta’s going on there? Did you get a chance to read some gossip on the 1998 or 1998, about conducta de los progenitores??
Sounds like this case is becoming a brawl. This is going to become much more damaging than the factual dissapearance of NH.
We use cuà ©ntame algo, as a sinonym of what’s up.
You have reached the limits of my vocabulary… POING!
“progenitores”?
Says the 3 boys are witness’.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1429067/posts?q=1&&page=4651
post #4,656
pics of urine being transfered to another place…he is looking right at the camera on purpose and even turning his body to continue to stare at the camera as the vehicle drives away…what do you think he is thinking???
Has Aruba ever considered hiring a crisis management firm? I think there is still time to bring in communication strategists that will help handling this situation?
Hey In the Hallways? You there?
Padres
WAIT! You’ve got the name spelled wrong!
The Dutch embassador is Mr. Boudewijn Johannes Van Eenennaam.
To verify see http://www.washdiplomat.com/ambprof/netherlands.html
The proper way to address an embassador, for those who care about such things, is “Your Excellency”.
Voice analyzers are supposed to be in Aruba.
Don’t read much gossip Lucy, try to keep cool and see the truth as much as possible. Gossip blurs vision.
The only thing that stands out today is the fact that the procecutions is going back to the drawing board, back to the beginning, open all options. I think I have said that a couple of times. Hopefully our “theory” will also be looked at with an open mind.
Checkme, what’s your theory?
Saw the interview, Aruba looks dumber than before. What a joke of a country.
Why are there so many guys involved in this case?
I believe they have hired a media consultant at one point in time, from the ATA (tourism authority), to manage toe info-flow to the media. But I think after their first invoice they stopped this.
You think a crisis management team can still do some work here? Isn’t it too late for that?
Just heard Greta’s interview with the Dutch Media guy who interviewed Paulas VDS today. Very interesting, especially the revelation that he was not interrogated in the same manner as the brothers were. Said he was only talked to once for a statement. Also learned that PVDS is friends and co-workers with ALL the Government people involved in this case.
can you see me?
Yes you are right, it’s a waste of time to linger on the gossips. At the end of the day, I imagine what everyone really wants is justice, even if at the spur of the moment it is easier to want to lynch somebody quick.
I would hope the Holloways and twittys would consider a psychic to help in the search for Natalee . I think it is time. There is little time left before the scum bags gets out. If they can find a body they would have something to charge them with. Without a body there is no crime.
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Guess in Aruba, money and who you know matters way more than justice. I will never visit Aruba again.
Moose, in short, NH, located on beach, is expected by party of people, prepared for her, take her to Colombia, (maybe Venezuela). The connection between AUA and Colombia is obviously what is the “missing link” here. I believe they know about this link but expsing it will ping them and all hope for NH being alive will be lost.
Checkme
Ref. crisis management, I don’t think it is too late, because this will not go away that fast, and they will be longlasting effects, both internally and from abroad.
Jerry…i did read somewhere that they are accepting any info from psychic’s or anyone else…I heard that they do read these blogs and any info that is shared is taken to heart.
Ally, you there watching us???? We are going to hire a crisis management firm for you too. Please come back, we miss you.
Hi there to you too Dana
From a legal standpoint , they have nothing on the boys they would eventually have to let them go?
Ally was on earlier this morning…she was a little upset…seems that a troll came in and used her name and said some horrible things…she got pretty upset..but people who have been following this blog…even though we don’t do anything but sit back and read…know that the real Ally wouldn’t say those things…she is just too sweet.
The good ones want to be contacted by the family or the police?
I understand how this looks on from the US, I beg to differ, solely because we are dealing with human beings here. Let the one who hurt NH hang, if I get the chance I will hurt that person more than he/she can handle. However, we have a judicial system here in which I strongly believe. Justice based on the law, nothing else. Including politics, media, positions family etc. It’s very easy to scream “corruption” but much harder to stay the course and work the agreed upon system.
Checkme, am I reading you right? Is this for prostitution?
i AM HERE…
Southern
I know, I am just trying to encourage her to come back.
See Ally, Southern wants you here too, and your blog behavioralist and Miss Damita mentor is here too waiting for you to come back also. Right Checkme??
hello? can you see me? wait, maybe it’s because I didn’t introduce myself properly.
Hi, my name is richandfamous. I’m realy not rich or famous but on the internet I can be anything I want to be. I am a regular citizen of the us and I mean no harm. I just wondered if anyone can see my post because no one has ever said so here before. I just wanted to join in the conversation.
i am sorry, i was just very hurt that checkme believed that vulgar imposter was me…Lucy, mi tia, recibiste my e-mail?
Hi everyone.
Hi, Ally. The stuff about the crisis management firm for you is a joke, just in case….
Checkme, If this is human trafficking, don’t worry about how it looks from the U.S.
I heard there’s something going on in Wisconsin too.
Oh, now the program on TV is over and now we are good enough to join?
lol, just kiddin’, lol…
Ally, Kris, so good to hear you. Ally, how are you?
Checkme
Will you please let your best pupil know that you didn’t imply that she was the impostor that made the coment about the medication.
Ally
Yes, I read your mail. Did you read my reply??? If not, read it and stop it.
Ally, oh, it wasn’t you? hmmm… You sure?
hey richandfamous….welcome back Ally-really we do miss ya when you’re not in here bloggin…I have not formally introduced myself either….
Hi, my name is southernbelle73f….i am from Alabama and I am not new to this site…just have been reading a lot and trying to figure things out for myself…but from what i have seen the REAL people that post a lot are really faithful in trying to provide their views of what has happened and are trying in any way possible to help the Holloway/Twitty families.
okay, i am watching greta…the man she is interviewing said that Natalee had told Joran he was her”lucky charm”, Joran told him that she was dancing provocatively, and she was coming on to him. He told this man that she was doing drugs and she was drinking; he also said that he was drinkin (Jran)…he said they were driving around and she wAS SO OUT OF IT INCOHERENT–SO he took her back to the hotel and then she fell out of the car and went back to the holiday inn—which we know is a lie–also, he was telling his friends that she was missing before she was reported missing..
Hi Rich
I am compelled to ask if anyone sees this scenario as clearly as I feel I do……Natalee is still alive,and in Aruba–shortly to be transported off. She may infact have been moved from the original place where she was kept. I do see her at the “rave” of lorenzo–initially “foggily” brought there by jvs. The lorenzo is the controlling one. lorenzo is the “unsound” one .( The locals, the authorities all hesitate to confront him. He has pirate/robinhood/marquee power….)The dance soon became much worse,”…something very bad” lorenzo likes to film….jvs-arrogant little boy/brother leaves her there. The polis have searched there (according to simian),he is right….they found evidence–she was not there then. they questioned lorenzo. Tight alibi(?) PROBABLE CAUSE!!! He should be detained and questioned longer, harder,he may crack…..”unsound”.The COWBOYS need to search the lair…….soon,today…..
Checkme
You crack me up. You are now supposed to be serious about this thing …
Ally
What happened to I left her at the beach and walked back?
THis is good news, the new prosecutor seems really suspicous aboutr PVDS. I have a feeling he will be arrested again. I sure hope so, he seems very guilty to me.
southernbelle73f, thank gawd, I thought I was invisible! I feel much better now.
The pics I posted of Joran are really telling. IMO, he looks resigned to the fact that he has done something wrong and ruined his life. Maybe a little beligerant too.
ps; I’m from AZ.
Ally, What do you care what I think of you? What matters is what you know is True. If I don’t believe you that would be my problem.
If you accept that from me, then also receive this virtual hug. You are going through some rocky days. We are all here, happy to see you within our little circle. Me for one has been thinking about you during the day and looking forward to sharing some words with you.
Lucy, you are good.
Ally
Whos is Greta interviewing that has this direct version from Joran?
I’ve been saying this for a while now. Lorenzo is the link. Where is more information about the so-called belongings of Natalee that were found at his place??
Check me, i am astonished that u would even think that was me, i am so disappointed in u…southernbelle–thank you—that was very nice of u—i wish checkme was a loyal as u..lucy, i did not recieve your reply; however, i have returned because of your kindness and LOYALTy…..please educate the dear checkme—
I hate to hear that about Colombia. I have very dear friends from Colombia. One of them…my best friend…but she died a few years ago. She was a lawyer and Judge while she lived in Colombia. A very fine lady.
Was Lorenzo one of the guys that was called in and questioned and released?
Hey guys…I completely indulged my obsession with the rave party / country house / organized drug crime theories today. Some of this will be old news to some of you, but to others (like me) who weren’t that intrigued by the “Lorenzo” angle (or, alternatively, the organized drug trafficking angle) early on, you might find this interesting now that some of the more simple explanations are losing steam, at least as far as the courts are concerned.
I’ll be back to post quotes from other people’s older posts in a sec (if this thread stays open). But here’s a blog where I found a lot of interesting discussion – many of you are no doubt familiar with it already: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1424188/posts
I found it by searching “Lorenzo” as a key word (I think) – but this thread contains a lot of non-Lorenzo stuff. Still, it covers a good bit of ground with regard to the alleged organized crime elements on Aruba as well.
What are the searchers from Texas saying now?
Lucy—i am not sure—they just say it is somone that knows Joran—hold on—i will rewind it..checkme–i care what u think, b/c i care abt u…why, i dont know b/c i dont know u, but u comfort me in a way that i have not been able to discover in a while=lucy, te adoro, southernbelle–u are such a sweetheart..
The tragedies that happen daily in Colombia should be in the media, maybe then the US would open their eyes a little more about what’s happening in their backyard.
ty ally…i think that you are too
Charles Croes—i dont know who he is—he said that a mutual friend of his called him b/c he has a celllular rental company and he wanted his help to see if any calls were made from a member of hi company
New girl, it seems that you and I are the only ones really pursuing this angle
Thanks for backing me up on this, you have my backing as well. Let’s turn this crap upside down because I am convinced beyond all doubt that Lorenzo is the key.
Mark Furman says Natalie’s death is marked by the timeline that the bros gave. They gave a time that they dropped her off so that they are not connected to a dead body but rather a live person. did that make sense? lol ….He said it better than I did. sorry
Checkme
But because you are dealing with people is precisely why crisis management experts could help. I am sure the governmental structures and their personnel have definetly suffered from enduring the stress of the events that have evolved since the crisis began. Crisis management is not about public relation imaging, but more about how to prepare those handling the situation to adequately address pertinent issues and events, from the stand point of what’s happening in the present, and forseeing what could come, to better plan, develop and execute a plan of action that will help obtain desired results, or prevent unwanted events.
Has Natalee been confirmd dead, or is that still speculation?
TnLady…Mark Furman is just thinking out loud like a cop. Just speculation.
OK. Thank you, Rich…
This guy on greta that is showing the tide charts for that night is shaking like a leaf. Is everyone down there nervous or what?
for some reason I feel like she was involved in some kind of “rave”…I’m not old (or in my mind I am not…some of you might disagree) but we didn’t have raves when i was in my teen years…or maybe we just didn’t have them in the little town in Alabama that i grew up in…but from what i gather it is a huge party and there is all kind of drugs that are involved…maybe Natalee slipped a “mickey” and she liked the feeling…dang I don’t know but some clues were given out that she was wanting to know what went on at the raves and that she wanted to go to one…I know if her younger years were sheltered by loving parents then she might have just got a taste of something that she wanted to know more about and went on her own free will….now should she have been left…NO WAY!!!!
Good to hear from you Kristin-in-SC! I have to close my browser windows to get out of husband’s email and into mine, but I will post everything I came across in a minute…
Kris, you got it!!!
Lucy, you see, they are starting to believe it now… I heard somebody on Holland on the phone today talking about this theory and the the prosecuters should explore this angle more agressively. International drug related crime is just way over the head of our local authorities. The true criminals seem untouchable.
he said that he went to the beach area instead of the HI like Joran had stated..there were kids there and he told them waht kind of car Natalee was in and the said, “oh, that is Joran”…so they drove to their houre…he says when he got there, (prior to that he notified Natalee’s mom)..he left the police station between 2:40-2:45 pm…they all ariced to the house and the police knocked on the door, and beeped their horn, they rexecuted police siren, anr then Mr. Van Sloot came out, he said he didn;t know where his son was…Mr. V said that he had picked up hi son earlier at McDonalds…then they went to the Wyndam Hotel, After they arrived they saw Joran wasn’t there…then they returnd to the Van der Sloot’s house..
Ally, you are a beautiful person.
I don’t hear much about Colombia since she died. Her sisters do have a web page that tries to get help in some way, I don’t know if it’s for the kids or exactly what it is…they don’t keep in touch.
was slipped a mickey*
what time did the kalpoe boys say they left her? and what time did they say they left her and Joran in their second version.
Ally
This thing is getting to be really funny. To discribe it, I would have to fill the whole page with LOLO’s (you know, the chat language thing).
Once again, Checkme comes to your rescue with his lessons. Tonight’s is on self-assertiveness.
Ya chica, disfruta este asunto y ya
I have not heard, factually, that she is dead
funny how sometimes things happen so that the good guys get rhown in jail and the bad ones are untouched.
The esquestrians said they had some lead to someplace that they were excited about searching tomorrow. Hope they have something up their sleave.
Ally, listen to Lucy. say; “I am a beautiful person!”
He said Joran and father, were both at the house and they said they would do whatever they could to help…he said that he knew Natalee from before and she had lost money and he helped her gamble more money and she won…and that she commended him for helping her, he said that she was coming on to him. this man said that Joran was uncomfortable while he was telling him all this…that she ws doing drugs that night…he then said they took her to the lighthouse and then he wanted to take her home…holiday inn—which we know is alie—between this time—is where i feel the crime occurred
Checkme
I have started to believe what? I lost track really. If you mean getting the true criminals, whomever they are, yes I do believe that now. The initial rush rush and punish feeling is gone now.
Who here think’s Natalee is still alive?
moosetracks, terrible how wondeful souls get destroyed in this world.
“Infinite complacency”, a sentence I heard in War of the Worlds. Awesome movie, must see people.
prosecutor says more arrests are possible! oh boy, smoke and mirrors…:::sigh:::
Check me, i still adore u—hmmm 500 miles??? i am so angry; h/e that an imposter messed with me…that bafoon…!!
Ally
Whos is the guy that is saying all this??? Steve Croes?? I don’t have Fox here, so please help me here.
I think that she could still be alive…anything is possible
moosetracks Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
Who here think’s Natalee is still alive?
not me…sorry
Jerry;
….yes,questioned and released. He had an apparent “airtight” alibi.
1000 lies don’t need to be told to cover up a “missing” girl.
Every post I am about to make is copied from elsewhere – posted for its curiosity value, or in the hopes that someone out there will be able to develop facts out of this, but I cannot at all vouch for the truth of any of it – I have never even been to Aruba, nor do I know the Alabama folks who went on this trip.
I’m gonna start with the drugs / money laundering / corrupt people in power allegations – THE REST OF THIS IS NOT ME:
I have a different idea from House of Cards. I think they are desperately trying not to have revealed the extent of the criminality in Aruba and think the Casa Nostra is still involved, in particular that Culiano {spelling is wrong} family who have a foot in the whole area including Cuba.
I think nothing will fall apart other than for the people who had contact with Nat. The criminals are far bigger than this, far more vicious and entrenched.
——————————————————————————–
Yes, that thought crossed my mind also. You have much more info. about all the possible “players” and how really bad it is. I guess we are all surmising, but now realize it was not just VDS and Natalee and a little mishap, accident, or an interlude gone sour. It is a big freaking crime ring involved somehow.
Every post I am about to make is copied from elsewhere – posted for its curiosity value, or in the hopes that someone out there will be able to develop facts out of this, but I cannot at all vouch for the truth of any of it – I have never even been to Aruba, nor do I know the Alabama folks who went on this trip.
I’m gonna start with the drugs / money laundering / corrupt people in power allegations – THE REST OF THIS IS NOT ME (long article – I will break it up and state when I have finished posting excerpts from it:
“The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman – TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997
“A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former ministers, members of Parliament, owners of casinos, supermarkets, cosmetics manufacturers and importers of cars and batteries. The washing-machine fits everybody who has become inexplicably rich from one day to another.”
These documents included details of off-shore companies on Aruba, commercial transactions with companies based in Russia, Nigeria and Senegal, bank drafts and deposits. According to Jimà ©nez, the documents offered considerable scope for continued investigation. “”On Aruba for instance. But that didn’t happen … They have problems over there. Their intelligence service is penetrated by political groups and the Cuntrera’s have some first-rate relations on the island”.”
One of the Venezuelan banks the clan worked with, the “Banco de la Construccià ³n”, has an off-shore subsidiary on Aruba: the Intercon Financial Bank, through which a lot of money was channelled.”
Checkme–I know u are a beautiful person ask Lucy what I e-mailed her today—others,please be kind i wil post it here, I realize that this does not pertain to the case, and i emphatically apolgize…but check me here it goes, again others, don’t blof angry e-mails —-i have nothing but love for u all
No, tia..I do not mind your writing me, am quite happy that you have. I just read an earlier post that checkme left at around 3 or so, and he believed that the impostor was me and that was hurtful. It has been wonderful conversing with you all; it was quite a surprise for me, as this is the first time I had blogged. I know it seems silly; however, I really felt bonds forming and it really was wonderful for me..I was always eager to blog on and talk to you all. I live with my boyfriend and he works late; therefore, I am alone a lot..My girlfriends are incessant happy hour queens and I am tired of the scene so I choose to stay home. I have always been known to be a bit impetuous and a tad hot headed (yes…the Latin temper has gotten the best of me at times), but something about checkme always made me more peaceful. I can’t explain it, he calms me and makes me smile..and builds my confidence in myself, as do u. But now that I have read that he commented on the imposters words stating “ally” was a bit fuzzy last night, it supports the theory that he believed that impostor was me…and that was really disheartening. I do not like being implicated as a drug user, and it disturbs me that I even have to defend myself to this. I read people responding to me angrily, as they should have as those remarks were disrespectful and classless..BUT I did not write them…Thank u so much for caring amiga, I will miss you guys…Checkme believing that was me kind of in a weird way tainted the bond that I so held highly…You can write me anytime–Come see me when u visit Miami. Tell him thank you for making me smile the times that he did…Keep in touch.
So, the traveling detective possy (Beth, her husband, other family members, 2 cops, and the cell phone man) left the VDS house, traveled to the casino looking for Joran, found out he had just left for home, traveled to the police station (I think), and then returned back to the VDS home. I don’t know how long that takes, but from the time Joran arrived home and before the possy arrived back there that PVDS told Joran people were looking for Natalee and Joran concocted his first lie. He’s trying to make us believe that prior to that he didn’t know Natalee was missing…..
Every post I am about to make is copied from elsewhere – posted for its curiosity value, or in the hopes that someone out there will be able to develop facts out of this, but I cannot at all vouch for the truth of any of it – I have never even been to Aruba, nor do I know the Alabama folks who went on this trip.
I’m gonna start with the drugs / money laundering / corrupt people in power allegations – THE REST OF THIS IS NOT ME (long article – I will break it up and state when I have finished posting excerpts from it:
“The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman – TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997
“A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former ministers, members of Parliament, owners of kasinos, supermarkets, cosmetics manufacturers and importers of cars and batteries. The washing-machine fits everybody who has become inexplicably rich from one day to another.”
These documents included details of off-shore companies on Aruba, commercial transactions with companies based in Russia, Nigeria and Senegal, bank drafts and deposits. According to Jimà ©nez, the documents offered considerable scope for continued investigation. “”On Aruba for instance. But that didn’t happen … They have problems over there. Their intelligence service is penetrated by political groups and the Cuntrera’s have some first-rate relations on the island”.”
One of the Venezuelan banks the clan worked with, the “Banco de la Construccià ³n”, has an off-shore subsidiary on Aruba: the Intercon Financial Bank, through which a lot of money was channelled.”
Lucy, remember 2 or 3 weeks ago, when you, crs and kris were the only ones who believed me. Now we see that belief not being so crzy anymore. yes, you are right, the rush is out of this. That is what justice is about. Not just hang, hang the right one.
people I must leave you. Sweet dreams my angel Ally, think of me Lucy, keep at it Kris. Bless All,
Love and Light
I like that reporter from ARuba…Jossey, I think is his name
MYSPACE for JVS
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14905439&Mytoken=632554160789741250
Lucy–he is just a guy whyo owns a cwell company that detectives wanted to know whether or no natalee made any calls
Continued: “The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman – TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997
“A Smugglers’ Paradise
The Intercon Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever. One of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes. The firm’s trust-company Arulex was implicated in setting up the bank. “”Yes, we are involved with that bank”,” says Croes. “”We still handle all their legal affairs, but we don’t know anything of their financial accounts”.” (70)
Hendrik Croes — a brother of the island’s legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm — is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.
The Cuntrera’s must have felt at home on Aruba. The island has been a smugglers’ paradise, since colonial times, when it was used to evade the Spanish trade monopoly. Whatever disagreements Arubans may have — and they have a lot — this is something they readily admit. Even Prime Minister Eman acknowledges “”it is an island of smugglers … For years Aruba was the most important coffee exporter, while there is no coffee-plant to be found on the island”.” Aruba is also the biggest exporter of Philip Morris cigarettes and every imaginable kind of whisky. On Aruba it is all imported and exported according to the rules. What they do at the other side on the South American mainland is not the problem of the islanders. Legal trade or contraband, the difference is thin. “”A lot of families became very rich with this trade”,”says Eman. “”This went on for decades and it is an eh… accepted fact.”
Esto es una catarsis.
Just watched Current Affair about ex-boyfriend of Natalie possible suspect.
thanks new girl….i agree that this is HUGE!! And all the while the “lamb” is the “scapegoat”…. SAD that they would let a child (only 17) take the heat for all of this…I don’t care how big this crime mess is..as a parent I could/would not sit back and let my child take the heat for all of this…but then i guess a few years in the slammer ain’t that bad to pvds or any of the other leaders in this whole mess.
Continued: “The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman – TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997
”
“”Aruban traders built an extensive infrastructure in the Caribbean”,”one of their former employees explains — a network of warehouses, shipping-company’s, bank-accounts on Aruba, in the Panamanian freezone Colà ³n, in Miami. “”In 1983 the bolivar” —" the Venezuelan currency” —" collapsed on account of the debt-crisis, and the bills could not be payed to the Arubans any more”.” Then it really started. The smuggling economy needed re-structuring. The whole infrastructure was turned around: now it was used for cocaine trafficking and money laundering.
The US Attorneys Office in Miami gathered an insight in this pattern when, in December 1993, it indicted — among others — Aruban business-men Randy Habibe and Jossy Arends in its case against the La Costa Cartel. This ‘enterprise’ is accused to have smuggled some 80 tons of cocaine and 250,000 pounds of marijuana to the United States, and laundering some 800 million US dollars from 1980 onwards. (74)”
FBI- says that Joran they feel was involved, b/c of his willingness to help , being kind and not angry that he was implicated in a crime…he lied right way…prior to any questioning…he said that he would not providwe them forensic evidence b/c he was prepared—coached–possibly b/c of his dad..although he was playing to be helpful, he would not allow them to gether evidence without a warrant
Checkme
Is Jossy Arends related to Maxito???
HEY! MOOSETRACKS is fond of a featured member of the article I am posting excerpts from!
LOOK for this quote below: “Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, “Diario”. “”When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government”,”says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba.”
[moosetracks Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
I like that reporter from ARuba...Jossey, I think is his name ]
Ally, we know how you write – from your heart. Plus, the kinship with Checkme will always sparkle. Most of us have been lingering about long here enough to figure out the inconsistencies of an an imposter.
Hey ,What about the ex-boyfriend theory? Nobody buying that? A diversion tactic?
Continued: “The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman – TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997
“The Arubans managed the logistics. They brought in the precursor chemicals necessary for the production of cocaine out the coca leaves; they bought the planes and ships to transport the merchandise; and last but not least, they laundered the proceeds through the accounts of their import-export firms in the Aruban Free Zone, skimming a percentage for their services.
Habibe is not the only one. The 1994 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report stated that “”other Aruban families with connections to banks in Venezuela and to cocaine cartels in Colombia are strongly suspected of involvement in drug trafficking and money laundering”.”
THE MONSURS
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team — Aruba’s national sport — the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.
Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, “Diario”. “”When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government”,”says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, “”their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money”.”"”Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering “”has become a political tool to discredit them”.” (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family’s mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias ‘Don’ Mansur is the family’s whizz-kid.” [end excerpt]
Well, he seems to tell Greta more than the other Aruban reporter…why is that?
Greta was talking to Jossy Mansur the Managing Editor of Diario and she asked if it was true that chief of police was leaving his position. He said yes he was. What timing. Was it because he screwed up the case? It just gets better and better. What a disappointment this whole situation is turning out to be. I feel very bad for the Holloway & Twitty families.
MORE EXCERPTS FROM SAME ARTICLE [note the reported involvement of EL DIARIO reporter Jossy Mansur, Hendrik Croes, the law-firm Croes & Wever, where one of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes, whose brother is - YOU GUESSED IT - Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government)]:
“In Venezuela the Mansurs are implicated in money laundering with Santa Lopesierra, the Marlboro Man. Every month Santa ‘re-invests’ 20 million dollar “”with the help of a well-known entrepreneur called Mansur”"”.” (78) Lopesierra is accused to have financed his election with the proceeds of drug trafficking and a car-theft ring. He is also reputed to be the man behind the Puerto Rico indictment. The activities of Mansur and Lopesierra, however, go well beyond this. They are accused of illegally funding the presidential campaign of Colombian president Ernesto Samper in 1994. Not only did Samper allegedly receive 6 million dollars from the Cali Cartel — an accusation he vehemently denies and ascribes to political machinations — it is said he also pocketed US$ 500,000 in cash offered by “”a group from Philip Morris and Interbank”.” (79)
The ‘Philip Morris people’ are Alex and Eric Mansur and a member of the Lopesierra Family . The Mansur Family seems to have all the right connections in its corner of the Caribbean. Some Mansur’s still have Venezuelan nationality, and they have interests in Maracaibo and Caracas, as well as in Punto Fijo and Coro, where the originally Lebanese Mansur Family had settled before moving to Aruba. Punto Fijo is situated on the Paraguanà ¡ peninsula in the North at the Golfo de Venezuela, which separates it from La Guajira. A ferry connects Punto Fijo to Aruba.
Maybe the Mansurs and the Cuntrera-Caruana clan first met each other in this remote part of the world. Nobody knows. (81) But they certainly have met on Aruba, according to several insiders and law enforcement officers. Venezuelan police-officer Guillermo Jimà ©nez states: “”I know they are connected. I have sent files about bank transactions between the Mansur’s and the Cuntrera’s to Aruba. But documents about the Mansur’s are kept secret over there”.” DEA-officer David Lorino is equally convinced and has connected the Cuntreras with Ruben Mansur. In his judgement, “”Ruben Mansur is a major-league dope-peddler”. [end excerpt segment]
War of the Worlds! Will wait for the rental. Tom Cruise is becoming a joke here.
I like Jossy Mansur also. Very truthful in what he says. I was just wondering if people are so afraid to come forward with information due to the fact that they might be implicated in knowing something about the case, they should contact his newspaper and give them the info to pass along to the appropriate parties (I don’t know who they are these days).
was there any of natalee’s ex boyfriends on the trip from MB? Does anyone know if there was someone from her hometown that she may have been seeing before the trip? If there was that might be something to think about. Just wondering because of some posts I have read lately talking about ex boyfriends.
Thsnk you chimes, good night,,sweet dreams, Lucy sleep with the angels…Checkme–u are always in my thoughts…i wish i could hug u—you’r kindeness towards me ignites me—Good night all, may God watch all over u tonight…and bring Natalalee home—Lucy, bendicion..Checkme—next time stay on line longer don’t tease, hon—Good night
THIS PART IS WORTH REPEATING: READ these excerpts, and note the reported involvement of EL DIARIO reporter Jossy Mansur, Hendrik Croes, the law-firm Croes & Wever, where one of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes, whose brother is – YOU GUESSED IT – Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government)]
Mansur struck a chord in me when I read it here, because one of our beautiful tipsters (Shango, I believe) mentioned this name at one point. I hadn’t ever heard it before the post from the tipster.
i wonder if people aren’t afraid to come forward because of the things that go on in Aruba…like they are afraid for their lives.
TK
Country Moon, she was on the trip, was asked if the ex boyfriend went on the trip and if I am not mistaken…i believe that she said that she could not comment on that right now but that it was a wrong direction…those were not her exact words but that was the jist of what she said.
New Girl, this information, however you obtained it is deep. I believe it. We are like the people behind the green curtain. Hopefully carrier pidgeons to those who may be lounging behind sunglasses here.
people don’t want to talk b/c they mite go missing too!!!
Continued: “The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba
Tom Blickman – TNI Researcher
Transnational Organized Crime Vol. 3, No. 2, Summer 1997
“”"I wish this was true”,” Alfonso Caruana answered when the judge showed him a article claiming the Cuntrera-Caruana clan possessed 60 per cent of Aruba.
Most likely the “Corriere della Sera” took a short turn when it alleged the clan had taken over the island. The only ‘clan’ capable to own a considerable part of Aruba is the Mansur Family. Most observers do agree on that supposition. Nothing moves on Aruba without the consent of the Mansur’s: “”If you want to do business on the island, you have to deal with them”.”Probably the Cuntrera-Caruana clan took advantage of the vast opportunities which Aruba had to offer, linked themselves with local entrepreneurs who were in the same kind of business, and left when they became too exposed. But they certainly did not leave at the first setback, when their activities were disclosed in “Business Week” in 1988.”
New girl…i remember that….oh my goodness…weird!!!
TK
Go back and look at some of my replys ! FBI is investigating Natalies ex-boyfriend saw on Current Affair tonight!
southernbelle73, yes, earlier Country Moon mention re: ex-boyfriend – it was not a road to be be traveled. Something like that. Otherwise, she couldn’t elaborate anything.
Interesting footnotes from the author:
(81) In 1987, ‘a confidential informer’ told the Venezuelan newspaper El Mundo that the Government should start an investigation into the activities of Mansur in Punto Fijo. They would ‘find much interesting affairs’. (‘El Gobierno debe abrir un investigacà on sobre actividades de Mansur en Punto Fijo’, “El Mundo”, 24 December 1987.) Mansur and El Mundo were engaged in a press-war since the Miami correspondent of El Mundo, Antonio Llano Montes, accused Jossy Mansur to head a gang smuggling cigarettes, liquor and televisions to Coro, and was implicated in the murder of Betico Croes, former Prime Minister of Aruba (‘Desde Miami’, “El Mundo”, 10 November 1987.) See also: Brigido Marquino, ‘Inunda a Venezuela y el Caribe Contrabando del Magnate Mansur’, “El Mundo”, 21 December, 1987.
(90) I interviewed Attorney General Jan Zwinkels in June 1995. Although Zwinkels himself is Dutch, he was appointed by the Aruban government. Aruba has its own independent juridical system and apparatus, but often Dutch trained juridical personal head the office of the Public Prosecutor. Zwinkels had to leave office in January 1997 after a two year long battle with the Aruban government about law enforcement on the island. Mr Zwinkels prosecuted a little too diligent some business-men affiliated with Premier Eman’s party, among others the Mansur Family.
Hey everyone.
Newgirl and chimes: Feels like you are onto another piece in puzzle. newgirl: what’s your theory on how Mansur fits in?
Hey Luw, Que pasa con piquito Ricky?
Hey Ally and Checkme.
Where is Shango: So far I haven’t seen anything to discredit his information and investigation seems to be broadening to include this possibility.
So what country is this from? Colombia or what?
What does this have to do with Natalee?
moosetracks Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 11:14 pm
War of the Worlds! Will wait for the rental. Tom Cruise is becoming a joke here.
thx, that’s what I thought too! nutcase.
btw, your name…does it mean you like moosetracks icecream?
Newgirl, yes, I think it is possible that this case is very convoluted with a massive cover up by organized crime familes because of the “necktie” victim found last week.
However, I am also of the opinion that the simplest path is the right path. Joran is responsible for her death and his father and the two brothers are actively involved in some way. The lies were already set before anyone one even knew she was gone.
Dang…where is shango…he/she hasn’t been on for awhile…I think that yesterday, i think it was yesterday, that the quarrel between shango and simian wasn’t the real simian…since saturday or sunday they were kind of working together…I think that simian was a troll (the one from the other day that was fussin (for lack of a better word) with Shango).
Hello sub! We seem to be submerged in what goes on behind the scenes.
thanks southernbelle. So she coudln’t comment on whether that was a fact or not. That is also interesting.
I have read a couple of posts on here over the past week that stated that she may have been involved with another guy earlier that week. So I guess the whole jealousy thing could have come into play on that last night, if she left with another man (Joran).
I guess that it could be possible that one of her fellow travellers could have been into her more than she knew and maybe jealousy kicked in? Never know for sure I guess, but it is another possibility.
Rich,
No, I like Moose! I need to go North to see one! Decorated my bath with Moose theme..you know, rustic?
But I do like the ice cream too.
I thought someone stated here they felt Natalee was headed for Colombia or Ven.
it was mentined today on another site that shango may have been privy to the happenings
thank you rich ‘n famous…i remember reading that the “cuban necktie” was a sign sent that says…..keep your mouth shut…could it have been a sign for our 3 that are still in jail?
On Greta’s show, they said Joran was a witness……are they just holding those 3 guys to keep them safe from something else?
Subdude
Hi darling. Good to see you. Pequeà ±o Ricky practicing his trumpet lessons. Mambo 101.
Shango flew up to Cuba to recharge his batteries and to buy some candles. They are having a sale in Havana.
Ally came and went.
Checkme, you know how he’s been lately. Comes, touches base, and flies off.
link to entire article here: http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm
HEY…I didn’t even include the intro about the allegedly ‘corrupt’ former Aruban Prime Minister Elan…Isn’t the source of this info the man who has been interviewed on FOX these last few weeks? [ARTICLE QUOTES FOLLOW]
“The MPs of the Staten van Aruba — the Aruban Parliament — must have been bewildered when one of their own ministers smeared the good name of their island. Former minister Elio Nicolaas grins when he is reminded of his speech in 1989. (1) Finally someone had thrown a rock in the silent and complacent waters of the Caribbean tax-haven Aruba — a semi-independent part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. “”I had to react”,” he says. “”My own colleague, the Minister of Finance, denied money was laundered on the island”.” Nicolaas knew better. Prior to his political career he had been a police officer and had actually set up the anti-narcotics squad.
His denunciation incited strong objections in Parliament. Opposition-leader — and former Prime Minister — Henny Eman demanded his resignation. Nicolaas retorted by suggesting that Eman’s election campaign was financed with drug money. Nicolaas thinks today nothing has really changed: “”The island is still infested with ‘narco-complacientes’, people who benefit from the drug trade”.” Indeed, Eman is once more Prime Minister of Aruba.”
Moose…i have thought about that too.. like the only way to make sure they are ok is to watch them 24/7.
I believe what goes on behind the scenes will explain why there are no witnesses willing to talk about the LvR rave scene. That and the corruption/drugs are most likely interrelated.
Now how does the LvR/Mansur/some Aruban authority figure are dirty-thing fit in with her disppearance. Let’s say she’s there at this rave and “something bad happens” to her which is witnessed by this lovely group of people. Or perhaps some of them participated in the bad thing (kidnapping or murder), and/or filmed the bad thing, or did the bad thing in front of witnesses.
To me, the silence then makes more sense. No one narcs on the cartel unless they want a necktie like the guy who got his throat sliced.
BTW, how many murders in Aruba per year. All the sudden there is a missing US, a missing man, and a dead guy who was nearly decapitated — all inside a week or two. Something smells rotten in Aruba.
Seriously Arubans, any follow up on the neck guy and the missing guy?
Guys…I know I just vented last night…but I have to leave you guys to figure this one out…I am going to try to not check in…its too depressing and no one is willing to tell the truth…one last question…does anyone know the first time Shnago signed on…the date? There are soooo many people involved in this and PVDS saying in an interview he told the boys not to worry because there was no body…implies she is far away from Aruba either mid-ocean or in slavery somewhere…He needs to be arrested…how does he know there was no body…actually PVDS, JVDS, and everyone involved should be hung up by thier feet and beaten until they tell what they know…the TRUTH…but trust without this Karma is a good thing and it will come back to them…no one gets away with this…just look at the Mississippi guy that was just convicted of the murders he committed in the 1960′s…plus he had to live his entire life knowing what he did…times were different then and these guys won’t be so lucky to live in somewhat peace for 30 to 40 years…plus I already know people who have canceled their trips to Aruba so the economy will suffer immediately…maybe the VDS will become homeless since daddy gambles and can’t keep a job…JVDS will be lonely for the rest of his life…it would take a masacistic (sp?) fool to be involved with him…
Hi Subdude! Glad to see you here again!
there will be no follow-up if the mansur family is involved
Jerry
Please, which channel is Current Affairs on????
didn’t I read that they arrested a woman (girlfriend) of the beheaded guy for killing him? I thought that was posted on here within the past two days. That one was solved like the very next day.
Jerry
Please, which channel is Current Affairs on????
The guy missing in Aruba, is it the reporter?
subdude–u are late tonight, i am off to bed, I am ehxausted…if anyone posts under my name after this message it is the stupid imposter—send him/her to hell from me—have fun tonight sub—we missed u….if u see checkme–tell him- still adore him—no matter what—BTW—i think Joran and Papa were vehicles to a much bigger crime-
Good night Lucy, southernbelle, and others check me—te adoro, siempre…
subdude—get on during the day, man—lucy–thank u for being the mediator—cuz..i am in awe of checkme’s words…
From my recollection, Shango signed on 3-4 days (feels lik years now) ago. It was like, where did the “Shango” poster come from.
After reading everyone’s response for the last three days, it seems that the authorities need to check this lead with the lorenzo character.
Honestly, this sucks for Aruba. I have been visiting Aruba for the past five years, and I have always felt secure in both the tourist areas and the non tourist areas. Oh.. in response to one of the messages from the previous page…the people of Aruba are NOT dumb.! Just FYI: a large majority of the population are quad-lingual! How many languages do most of us speak in the US?uh…uh one! And we still do that half -assed!
Everyone just pray to G-d that she is found safe!
a current affair comes on fox here in my town.
…
buyme
The night that Shango was riddling, Babalà º asked him if the Sumerians that he mentioned were the Mansurs, especifically, if he was the person that had written the editorial. Shango avoided answering.
why does shango know so much?
nite ally…take care…no need to worry bout the imposter…we know the real you
Subdude asks: BTW, how many murders in Aruba per year. All the sudden there is a missing US, a missing man, and a dead guy who was nearly decapitated — all inside a week or two. Something smells rotten in Aruba.
REMEMBER when we (collective “we”) first asked these questions? Once it became obvious that people were (despite “we’re safe and happy! protestations to the contrary) getting killed on Aruba, the residents emphasized that there is no violence AGAINST THE TOURISTS – usually.
Which is probably true. But with organized crime influence in the police force, in government, and in the media (ALLEGEDLY), I doubt the non-tourists are all that well-protected…UNLESS they behave and keep the island’s secrets.
You all keep talking about this simian that talks in codes and others that were trying to understand all of it….I copied these posts a couple of nights ago to try and bring it together in my mind…then I went to bed because I obviously was deranged for even trying to de-code anything on a message board….lol
anyway, here is what picked out and copied.
*************
There are 3 vehicles.
The phone call made in the small hours.
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.
The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.
In the other car.
Checkme Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 6:55 pm
1. Karpoes car
2. vdS Jeep
3. vdS family car
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.
Not even a confession will help.
One witness is not a witness.
The body is needed.
The phone call made in the small hours.
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.
Only one piece is missing.
Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say.
They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy.
The father was not there, but he knew what to do.
The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated.
The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.
they boys met around the pool in Montaà ±a.
Just got info the plane has arrived they are going to the courts
The fires burned high and bright.
Even Saint John denied he knew.
The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny.
The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue.
His sore and bloody tongue.
The hope rests on the cowboys finding their own.
The Simian is leaving. There’s a doppelganger.
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.
The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. The though they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.
The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.
Montaà ±a. Noord. Aruba.
What does the music man know? He was seen. He was mentioned by the boy.
The boy is biting off his own tongue. The Babylonians are stunned. What possesses such a boy?
Most federales have left. The puzzle is nearly done. The one piece is missing. They need the cowboys help.
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.
The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.
The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.
A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost.
ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:
This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.
kristin Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:23 pm
i just heard a police cheif and friend of PVDS is involved and will be arrested? simian? shock?
The Babylonians gave free reign to the cowboys for a reason.
ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The one with the longest legs begs …
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.
ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.
The Hindus are not completely clean, but the Babylonians need them.
The are only so many halls in the palace. The gates are shutting down, but they need to be kept shut.
Checkmate is in place, but the game is not over yet.
Some alibis need to be broken.
There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.
Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?
All along the gamblers knew who he was.
chimes Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 10:11 pm
Damocles: Greek courtier to Dionysius the Elder, tyrant of Syracuse, who according to legend was forced to sit at a banquet table under a sword suspended by a single hair to demonstrate the precariousness of a king’s fortunes.
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.
Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.
Signing off.
Kristin-in-SC Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 10:20 pm
Doppelganger:
Meaning “double walker” a doppelganger is a shadow-self that accompanies every human. Only the owner of a doppelganger can see it, otherwise it is invisible to human eyes. Dogs and cats have been known to see doppelgangers. Providing sympathetic company, a doppelganger almost always stands behind a person, and they cast no reflection in a mirror. They are prepared to listen and give advice to humans, either implanting ideas in their heads, or a sort of osmosis. It is said to be bad luck if it is seen, and rarely a doppelganger will make itself visible to friends or family, often causing great confusion. Doppelgangers can be mischievous and malicious.
The Simian is sorry, but as long as there are impersonators there will be no more clues.
*************
the end…nothing happened and we are all still sitting here in the dark. hummmmmm
lucy – i think shango is not a phsycic as much as he is in the “know” about all the underpinnings of aruba and this case
Then I repeat what I said last night…Shangho or Siamian is the DJ (Steve Croes)…too much talk between them of spending 8 days in jail when they were arguing…happy we have these threads…first time I have ever vistied one but I do beleive they provide information to help a case…
i think that shango knows because he is close to the investigation…one way or the other
buyme:
Agreed and I think this explains why there hasn’t been any follow up into other areas, like the LvR rave situation or the kidnapping possibility. If I am trying to keep someone away from my dirty laundry, I keep the focus on JVDS, the Kalpoes, etc… and keep focus geographically on their stories and do not entertain other possibilities.
It stinks to high heaven. Prosecutors getting pressured to keep the investigation narrow. Police chief now retiring. Bullshit — he can’t take the heat that’s is ratcheting up.
I believe they are monitoring this and other blogs and realize that the focus is headed their way. The issue is whether worldwide media attention will create enough pressure to make Arubans investigate these two theories even though vested, underground interests don’t want it to happen.
Where is Shango? Where is Simian?
buyme
Shango has mostly repeated a lot of the comments that have been brought here by other sources, as far as the possibility of a kidnapping and the involvement by Lorenzo van Rijn. The fact that he gave it the misterious touch, and the guessing game, helped imaginations fly, plus he gave it additional touches, such as bringing mention of the Sumerians, Dirty Hand, the Shivas and all the other characters.
Shango/p1190/3:10PM?
Who said Joren was just a witness ??????????
i’m glad the police chief retired! that a-hole is probably one of the biggest obstacles.
dang y’all this is too wierd…..dang
Guys, does anyone know if ancient Sumaria was located where current Lebanon is?
i just hope for our sake shango is ok. he/ she could be facing some serious sh*t if THEY ever found out who he/ she was.
Subdude and buyme
But it has also been said here that at one point the Holloways’ public pressure on the authorities was a strategy to divert public attention away from Natalee’s true captors, to minimize the possibility of a murder due to fear of discovery. This was over a couple of weeks ago.
What are your thoughts on this?
Simian cannot be the DJ. Prove me wrong, if you can, but I do believe Simian was posting here while “the DJ” was locked up.
southernbelle73f Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
dang y’all this is too wierd…..dang
LMAO………southerbelle, you are a might quicker than I was…took me hours to throw my hands up.
Shango & Simian in my opinion were just here trying to keep the people on the boards all up in arms. Having fun using their minds to rule everyone elses thoughts about what is going on. It was a game to them. Both of them are very intelligent you can tell by their words, but they both made predictions that obviously did not happen and now POOF! They are missing in action. JMHO
…
I have followed this very closely and I think that the original story about taking Natalee to the lighthouse is true and that something happened to her there and she was either dropped in the ocean or somehow hidden in the lighthouse area. She was either murdered or died from a drug overdose. That was their original story, (of course they made up the part about dropping her off at the Holiday Inn to cover their butts). I think after PVD got a hold of them he told them to change their story because he did not want authorities going to the real scene of the crime because there could be evidence and maybe even a body in the area. If is true that PVD and the three kids had a talk, then he probably told them to change their story to the one about the beach at the Marriott to throw off everyone. I say they should concentrate on looking around the lighthouse. Does anyone know if there is a sheer drop off or caves in the area?
the reason that I think that Natalee might still be alive is because Shango/Simian said (not in these exact words) that JVDS knew her, the brothers knew her but the (can not remember what word he used) knows her….meaning that she was still alive…but then that was a few days ago…but i still hang on to the fact that she could still be alive
LUCY is totally right, actually. I found blunt accusations of the things Shango was hinting at when I searched beyond google ‘to the “deepweb”‘.
Lucy said:
June 29th, 2005 at 11:41 pm
buyme
Shango has mostly repeated a lot of the comments that have been brought here by other sources, as far as the possibility of a kidnapping and the involvement by Lorenzo van Rijn. The fact that he gave it the misterious touch, and the guessing game, helped imaginations fly, plus he gave it additional touches, such as bringing mention of the Sumerians, Dirty Hand, the Shivas and all the other characters.
Tk agreed, poof
(Off Topic)
Moosetracks.
Since you’re a fan, I bet you’ve seen this article. If not, it’s a keeper. Anyone else who needs a break for an incredible story, go here for the story of The Wired Moose. … http://tonyrogers.com/humor/wired_moose.htm
(/OT)
lucy – i don’t know. i just don’t know. i think she may have passed. but i don’t know. and if they never find her and she is alive, would that be a better scenario?
oh yeah and shango mentioned havin a handicap of 12….now i looked on a map of aruba and there is a golf course near the lighthouse and then there is a mini golf course in Oranjestad….someone made mention of a bird too…and their is a bird santuary in Oranjestad near the mini golf course….wonder if Shango was talkin bout one of these places?
hi all. i’ve been following the disappearance of natalee for about three weeks now. it has only been within this past week that i have come across the “front of SM site”, i’ve been a poster on the natalee forum since i’ve been following the story.
new girl, i think you are on to something with all the information you have dug up. i also think you should contact greta van sustren with your info. and i know a lot of you discredit the whole “shango” thing, but i think he/she is on to something. i think he/she was either witness to something or has some sort of insider info. i do find it very interesting that the head of polis’s contract will not be renewed.
also, listening to mark furhman tonight made me think of lorenzo. especially the part about having an airtight alibi.
i also am starting to believe that joran is being held by the authorities to keep him safe – safe from lorenzo and his cronies.
thanks for reading.
I believe it was Greta’s show….someone, maybe her…said Joran was a witness.
I was reading this and listening to her…..
Mafia, rave parties, idle chit-chat, and jerking off. This used to be a good board. It’s total crap now.
I think the boys of Aruba are enjoying this…and I agree they could be making all this up…but the 8 days in Jail is odd…it’s that how long Croes was there? I am just tired of being played with..we ALL know someone knows what happened…and no one will come clean…it would be so easy..so easy…
Steve Croes is definitely guilty of something here……….
He states on his own that the BOYS dropped NH off at the HI, walks right into the POLIS station and makes that statement, which comes back later as being NOT TRUE……..
He knew exactly WHAT to say cause someone called him and told him TO DO IT…
If the car THE BOYS used looks like a TAXI u can bet that they played this game before……….
Something really STINKS
Per Shango, Dirty Hands is the police chief who is now retiring. Coincidence?
remember that before Simian & Shango we had another insider feeding our minds. “Shock” was also a very intelligent person who had most everyone on this site feeding of his/her every word. Had us believing that he/she had the inside scoop!
Then POOF! Shock was MIA too. Do you think they were all taken captive because they were getting too invloved and close to the truth? Maybe the Arubian government lead by PVDS had them all kidnapped so that they couldn’t post on this board again. 
I think they were all just really smart people who played a very nice game with all of our minds.
ALSO (do I need to throw on a tin hat here?) I believe that there are a bunch of new people here trying to divert attention from this line of inquiry and engage others in conversation about:
(a) TOTALLY nonsensical theories (Nat’s folks killed her in cahoots with Nat’s exboyfriend because ex was jealous and $2 million was available to mom & dad); or
(b) OLD, obvious theories that they would really like us to stick with please (“Joran did it, Joran did it, Joran did it, Joran did it – STOP asking questions anymore, we’re giving you a culprit here!)
The best possible damage control for Aruba would be if they never find her and just leave the possibility that she is alive and elsewhere. Can’t let that happen.
…
I think Shango is Simian.
Sooz, I did see that pix. I wasn’t aware the moose died tho….poor thing!
oh dang….subdude…that is right…that is what they kept talkin about bugaloo…or whoever guessed that one correctly and they made mention several times about lookin at that 12:30 post…wow…dang!!
the damage is done…
Finally, a few minutes to see the blog. First, I do not know exactly whom Charlie Croes is but ………………………………………….Interesting how twisted and spinning these lies are gettting. The Polis chief VAN Der Stratten (my guess is possible DH) is leaving around the 10th to 15th of July. His contract is up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Trapenberg was getting all irritated at Bill O’Reilly tonite. BOR is right though. Aruba should be picking up some of the tabs for all this. The possible crime was possibly committed in Aruba.
What bothers me right now are the statements I heard this morning about how American media, American people and American blogs are damaging their country and we are causing concern for the Aruban economy. No, Americans did not do this.
Most of us are not out to get the entire populus of Aruba, or even a small part of them.
We want Natalee home. We want the answers. Most of all, we want her home, we want her family to have closure and most of all we want to provide Natalee peace. Alive or passed.
Many have made statements about Americans, how we are, how rude, bad, arrogant,
overbearing,pushy,stupid and so on. Yet, it seems they like our “AMERICAN TOURIST DOLLAR.” Otherwise, how could anything we do or say affect them. They want us to turn our back on Natalee, say it is her own fault and continue spending vacation dollars in Aruba. Well, let the cry of its people be heard to its government
and to the “Hague” and to the Dutch hierarchy. Let them know you do not want your livelihoods spoiled because Americans want one of their own home.
The other thing that truly bothered me was when a “Fox reporter” said that it was unlikely due to privacy reasons that the DUTCH government would allow other international or American agencies come in and work with getting some answers.
That sums up alot. Apparently, they want their cake and to eat it too. That is arrogance at its highest. Do not be upset if the people that want Natalee home, encourage others to redirect their vacation dollars to other places including our own
vacation places, such as Hawaii, California, Myrtle Beach, Florida, Catalina Island, Puerto Rico and so on. It is not to punish the Aruban people but to make a stand on what has been made a “cover up” “conspiracy” or just another “keystone cop” dysfunctional government situation.
Natalee is still on that island. She is waiting to be found. There are more lies than truths right now. After Greta’s airing tonite, it confirms certain things. The very strong possibility that she is on land. She is there.
Natalee had a very bad night that night, but not of her own doing. The confusion,
fuzzy, the laughs, bad laughs. The smell, a smell of sweat, dirty sweat, piggy male sweat, smoke(from a fire, bonfire, smoking)stale smell. Smell of uncleanliness, of bo.
Pungency on the hot breath. Others, sweaty. Voices, not understanding, unclear.
Not her words. Tears, bloody taste in mouth, what………………vomit, confusion.
Why? What did………………..Please, lord.
No one can imagine what Beth or any of her family are going through. Let alone what she has been through. This is no longer a matter where some of you need to get on the blog and say nasty things about Natalee, her family, America or her friends.
I believe the dogs may help in the rocky shadows or in the place of rocks in shadows.
I also think that if they could get a duplicate of Natalee’s license sent down to the Aruban polis and just have them say to the boys, what looks like this is the only thing Natalee carried out of that hotel room with her. Say nothing more or nothing that could be construed as entrapment, they might be able to break Satish. I believe that piece of evidence might have been missed by destoyers.
I also believe if they could find a girl looking very similar to Natalee, very close to Natalee and dress her in clothes similar to what she had on that night and had her walk through the jail, no words, no talking, nothing, and had all three boys in separate interrogation areas and this girl walk by, several times, it might spook one of the boys into talking. They might be so excitable they say something about what happened.
TO where they thought she was. There are no laws against someone walking through
an area not involved with them,but maybe a possible witness. Surely, not even in Aruba.
I wish she were already located. She needs to be found. She needs her mom. They need peace.
hi everyone! simian was on earlier here is his post
Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:29 pm This one Babylonian is a sure shot. The boy and the Hindus are closer than you would think. They believe all of their fingers are burned. The Babylonians think she’s on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.
there is one before this give me a minute
So, I wonder who is going to retire next. TK, indeed, where are they now?
I am maybe going to get rude now.
RstJ Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 11:53 pm
Mafia, rave parties, idle chit-chat, and jerking off. This used to be a good board. It’s total crap now.
RstJ- WHO the fuck are you, and who cares if you are bored?
Could Lorenzo have gotten Steve Croes (DJ) to come up w/ that ridiculous story?
the arrogance of Aruba…good luck to you guys…I am going to ruin my business if I keep checking in…has anyone heard from Yliana lately????
I too am going to bed…will check in tomorrow.
anyone know where I could get the interview that the parents gave to the dutch tv station?
They said it was about an hour and that they gave their permission to air it.
…
first entry
Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
A Babylonian capo whispered to me. They have too much on the boy and the Hindus.
I find his info interesting, not always right, but interesting
I am american and I love my country to death. But I attend to agree with the aruban government for calling for help. The media in our country is totally out of control. I think that they are really damaging to innocent people on a daily basis. In this case it happens that they are trying to switch focus onto this country and attacking it for no good reason. Like our country is crime free, drug free, or corrupt government free?? lol Please don’t try to play that role. They are making this into something that it should never have become. Attacking Aruba and its people will not help bring Natalee home and it will not make the police there find out who is responsible any faster.
I will move on and post the purported “Lorenzo” posts I found today. There aren’t any Lorenzo links, because (silly ALLEGED drug dealing gang rape video dog killer guy – this dude didn’t have a tickle site. Imagine that.)
I have my own opinions about the possible connection between this party host, Shango’s hints, the alleged polis chief alibi-breaker and the alleged organized crime I posted excerpts about above, but it isn’t really my theory that matters.
I’ll post the Lorenzo stuff next.
I hope someone that matters is paying attention.
I’ve been lurking here for a long time and just wanted to say hello to everyone. Reading all of your theories has really made me think. The dynamic here is so different from the discussion board…it would be nice if some of you could combine forces.
newgirl: Interesting take on those who would divert. Best defense is a good offense, and all.
Couldbe: I have also thought Simian, Shango, Shock may be same person. If I was going to try to hide my identity, I would assume multiple names and personas. I would even have them discredit each other. I know . . . the IP address thing might show they were posting from different locations . . . but would it? Does anyone know if IP address is associated with one computer? I doubt it, probably associated with one email name.
Query, if I have multiple email accounts which I operate from one computer, does each email account have a different IP address or do I have the same IP address for each account?
RSTj makes a very good point! Things are getting way out of control on these boards now. It seems to me that those very smart now missing people have lots of you obsessing over crazy out of control scenarios. None of this will end up being part of what really happened to Natalee. What happend to her will end up being something very elemental, there is no big conspiracy theory behind her disappearance. Unfortunately people want to believe that it is more than it really is simply because we have heard no facts and she hasn’t been found.
newgirl: I am paying attention. Keep it up, you are building a terrific research tool.
I am looking at Simian’s comments from today.
Innocent people of Aruba, you have in your flock one who radiates the essence of God. Antonius “Mickey” John opened his life for all the world to see, he spoke of his encounters, walked us through his home, and displayed the integrity, dignity and honor of any dignitary I’ve had the pleasure to watch. Watching him this evening I felt the values his mother and loved one taught him at an early age. He praised those who he felt were truthful, he refrained from comment when it would have shown poorly, and he spoke from his heart as a man treated unjustly and as a man who very humanly wants to see justice served to all those who have hijacked his county, his home, and his ethics. Mr. John, your home was warm, full of god, and reflected a family’s values I would be proud to have living next door to me. Your represented your family, your god and your country in a way I have not seen in the 4 weeks your countrymen have lived in my living room. My God bless you and your loved ones.
Now a note to those why walk a different path….for the last month the world has been glued to TV reports, newspapers, and radio transmission. Aruba has been placed in world view and has been judged, a judgment based on attitudes, egos, lack of concern, and an arrogance of “we own this country and you don’t”. The lack of human concern and compassion usually brought on by a false sense of power, the kind a child exhibits when they are never disciplined.
Aruba boosts a 1.94 billion GDP, with 1.3 billion of that from American tourists. American tourists who look for a place to take our families to be exposed to people like Mr. John, people who help bridge the gap between cultures, traditions, and customs, so I can with a great deal of certainty say the 1.3 billion from the US will slowly vanish, and I do apologize to all the Mr. and Mrs. John’s in Aruba who will suffer because of the evil ways of those who feel they rule the roost. For those who might not see the economic power behind Gods values, think about this: 4 weeks of constant media attention, this alone has cost the US populous…well lets all do the math. A commercial during the superbowl costs a few million dollars…so during a 2 hour game, 45 mins of commercials would run 100 million dollars…so endless hours of reporting for a month…then the donations to keep people in Aruba, teams of specialists, millions in equipment, satellite surveillance, etc etc etc. So if anyone can post after reading this an amount lets all start looking at what the cost is….my guess is it makes the 1.94 billion GDP look different. The monies made from a world wide drug and human slave market is in the 4 to 5 billion dollar range…so where does this “false” sense of security come from? Do those who on that Island that have jeopardized the legal and illegal economic base think they will not be made example of…the beautiful people of Aruba wont support you, and guess what neither will those who are now exposed and at risk of losing their billion dollar industries. You have disrespected your people, your “bosses” and your responsibility to the values of both. Run rabbits run, but you won’t get far. My God have mercy on your souls, and remember death comes not only from a gun.
Ip = Internet Protocol … your computer is given a number when you connect to the internet. cable and dsl generally have the same, if not off by a few numbers ip address.
dial up changes everytime you log on, but most numbers stay the same. It is not associated by your email, however where your email comes from also generates an IP address (ie 203.687.548.69 generic)
In the forum, it is said that a lot of people have had their IP banned due to flooding the boards with multiple names.
Could be Shango and his Oraxis?
I think IP addresses are linked to your ISP and specific computer, not your email. But, I know very little about computers. I’ve heard stories of one ISP getting banned and it affecting everyone in one area with that ISP.
think the police know more than they are letting on to the media. And for the people who speak in codes: it does not take a rocket science to figure out your little system; however, if you are serious about your information, i suggest you contact the proper officials. on the other hand, if you are trying to mess peoples minds, well, the shame is on you!!
subdude Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 12:16 am
newgirl: I am paying attention. Keep it up, you are building a terrific research tool.
I am looking at Simian’s comments from today.
=============================================
me too. i’m all about me some “newgirl theories”! you go girl.
THE FOLLOWING IS NOT WRITTEN BY ME, but copied and quoted from other sources in the hope of providing avenues of inquiry to the family of Natalee Holloway:
“BlueKyGirl
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 91
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:41 am Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
tkubi7 wrote:
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?
_______________________________________________________________________
The Lorenzo I’m referring to is Lorenzo Van Rijn, a local person (not sure of his age but I think he’s in his late 20′s, like Steve Croes) whose father owned a Volkswagon dealership and committed suicide around 3 years ago. Ever since the suicide, Lorenzo has purportedly not cared about anything. He has two houses on different sides of the island, as I understand it. One is covered with crazy spraypaint and is the site of underground parties; the police usually break up underground parties, but since his house is out-of-the-way the police don’t usually break those up.
That’s what I’ve gathered about him from the boards; nothing came up when I Googled him. I’m still not sure how he’s connected, but I know his name was thrown around the same day as the Steve Croes arrest–maybe they know each other.
iquitos
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 1020
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:51 am Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
klaasend wrote:
tkubi7 wrote:
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?
No. It’s Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago. He’s a crazy guy who’s father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago. There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.
PLEASE POST LINK TO LORENZO FRANKIE. BTW LAST NAME IS NOT VAN RIJN.”
One PC can have multiple IP addresses based on whether it is on a network or not. I am not sure about all the concrete wording of this, but I know for sure that my pc’s IP address changes each time I use it. If you every play music from your pc over broadband and allow people to listen in, they have to have your IP address. Each time I do that with my friends I have to give them my IP. Everytime it is something different. So it seems possible they all could be one person, and that the IP address wouldn’t really tell ya too much, unless you were some computer fanatic who knows all the ends and outs of it.
inside the forum today, it was established his last name is something different, but similar
your IP is attached to every post you make, inside the forum and out here on the comments. However we cannot see it. The mod’s however can.
by traceing an Ip, one can find whom your ISP is .. therefore one can find your general location.
Thanks for the IP info Kristy. Very interesting stuff. You must be very computer literate.
I missed Greta’s reference to Joran being a witness. While I feel he is guilty of something BAD….. I have been haunted by Shango’s posts the other night. He seemed to have a lot of information and I for one have wondered if something has happened to him because he was shedding too much light on nightly activities in Aruba. New Girls posts this evening certainly lend some credibility to Shango’s posts. If Shango was just teasing us…where is he? Why hasn’t he posted in more than 36 hours? Has SOMETHING BAD happened to Shango? And what about this last minute retirement of Joran’s Godfather? More than Natalee is amiss in Aruba and thanks to this board, Riehl World and Greta, something is going to break this week. I hope everyone will participate in the letter writing campaign. God bless Natalee and her family. Keep HOPE and Natalee alive. The Lorenzo theory is curious. Shango kept referring to Joran as the sacrificial lamb. I am still bothered by the pack luggage, passport, cell phone and purse in Natalee’s room. It just doesn’t make sense. Is it possible she returned to her room, packed and left again with someone else?
Thanks. I am fairly intelligent when it comes to computers and electronics. However I found that I was lacking many years of intelligence that I somehow missed. Due to the fact that most of the analogies and cryptic Shango/Simian talk, I had to look up and read about.
Am I the only one who did not know of the ancient/mythological .. what would his teachings be called. It is all new to me.
Is anyone familiar with them.
CoCo c’est juste Says:
“I am still bothered by the pack luggage, passport, cell phone and purse in Natalee’s room. It just doesn’t make sense. Is it possible she returned to her room, packed and left again with someone else? ”
================================================
i could be wrong here, but wasn’t it confirmed that natalee’s roommates packed everything up for her? (thinking that she had spent the night “off”, as in another room with another set of MB friends?)
Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
A Babylonian capo whispered to me. They have too much on the boy and the Hindus.
June 29th, 2005 at 4:29 pm This one Babylonian is a sure shot. The boy and the Hindus are closer than you would think. They believe all of their fingers are burned. The Babylonians think she’s on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.
4:18 post: Simian says he has an informer that is a head of some Aruban branch of government: Commissioner, police chief. “Too much” could mean either too focused on JVDS/Kalpoes or a wealth of evidence against JVDS/Kalpoes
4:29 post: Aruban head of government is reliable — a “sure shot”. JVDS and Hindus are more involved that we think. Since they do not get outside information in jail, they do not know information like PVDS or Croes have been released. They think that information has come out that connects them to the drugs/prostitution ring. This ring is consistent with Shango’s statements about what goes on at the house (suggested drugs and prostitution, e.g. “honey laden notes”, “raves”, Mary was no virgin, etc…)
JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers.
The Arubans think NH is on the way to Panama with the help of? Who is the Carib?
Ladies and gents, the police chief is resigning as the focus turns towards drugs and prostitution. Again I ask, coincidence? Not likely.
I have wondered this(among many other sugar coated lies) from the beginning …
why did everyone say that Natalee had to have entered her room from the Main enterance to the HI. Where we have known for awhile now that her room was a first floor room with a sliding glass door that LED to the beach …
It was finally stated on TV with Greta that her room did indeed lead right out to the beach.
Im not assuming anything, just saying why all the friends covering up?
OK, can’t help it, gotta respond to a few things. First, Natalee’s mom was with her Husband Jug Tweety the first time they spoke with “Joran,Deepak,Satish and Paulis, the father. Per Jug Tweety on “On the Record” he said that they were talking and that Beth asked where her daughter was and what happened to her and that the talks were going good at first. Then, Paulis and Deepak started telling them they had no jurisdiction there, they had no authority, that America had no jurisdiction. Then they told the other two boys repeatedly, “Do not say nothing. Do not say nothing. That was per Jug and Beth. Send for transcripts of that nights interview if you doubt it. I believe it to be 06/27/2005.
There was actually alot more time for them to get rid of her than most people are realizing. Why do I say that? Well, she was last seen by anyone other than the “three musketeers” ie (Joran, Deepak and Satish) @ approx. 1am or a little earlier. It is very reasonable that a temporary “place” was involved and that following that “Daddy Judge” also “Here comes the judge-in-waiting Paulis could arrange to have more permanent arrangements made. There was from oh, let’s be fair approx. 3:30am on May 30 till 12noon before it was absolute drastic that she appear to leave on her flight and then until 2:30am May 31 before things started getting shook up. Which means no polis looking for her because in most places adults have to be missing for 24 hours before they are actually considered missing.
NO one was chatting with, questioning or saying this girl was missing in between.
Yet, Joran already had an alibi for a crime that had not been assumed committed, a report that had not yet been issued and a girl that according to Joran, his ditsy mom and his J-I-W father is still alive. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Joran had once before, that we have heard of made a pornographic tape with a 14yo.
Joran was said to possibly have been playing poker at the Wyndham Casino by his own father, Paulis. Told to Charlie Croes. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Yet Joran lives under strict house rules, does not break the law. It is understood that in Aruba you have to be 18 to gamble. Aruba does not show special courtesies to those of priviledge. (lie detector needle goes flying, machine now taking off out window.)
Pleeeeaaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeeeee.
I am not familiar with any of their ramblings. I am just so convinced that after all that they said as soon as their predictions were proven wrong they ditched the board. I really think that they are some very intelligent people who obviously know about this mythological/biblical/ancient text and decided to play with peoples minds. It was very interesting for the first few days and then I totally lost interest. Of course that is just my opinion. I dont think that you lack intelligence just because you do not know how to translate their writings. I surely don’t feel any less intelligent because I couldn’t. lol
Kristy: Thanks. If I were to log off and log back on, or sign off and back on, would I generate a new IP for my computer each time?
As for email, do I understand that each email account has a different IP address associated with it?
CoCo c’est juste,
in reference to the “pack luggage”…the school group was urged to pack before they left that night to party since they would be coming back to the hotel late. this information was provided on an earlier thread by a student who was part of the school group. i think his/her name was country moon..something like that.
is the Carib, the Caribbean? i don’t know, just throwing something out there.
Kristy
In reference to Shango’s characters or descriptive adjectives, there was a list deciphered and sort of confirmed by him. Is this what you are referring to? Like, who are the Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Arawaks, and stuff like that????
Interesting how little by little …. the clothes air out.
Mr. Croes on Greta tonight painted a different picture of the initial meeting and what he was told.
“her lucky charm”
i think kristy is questioning the actual religion itself. i remember that shango mentioned it in one of his/her posts. it started with the letter “O” – ombian? something. i remember “googling” it and it coming up as some ancient mystic aruban religion or something like that.
Lucy,
no, I have all that figured out. Thanks though.
What I meant was …. in past tense … as in not related to this case … whom the characters were. Oraxis, sword of Damocles, The Lugubrious Game, and many others. I had to look all of them up and learn as I went. There was also another analogy that nobody caught on to …. Shango mentioned .. apparantly she had not heard the “buoy toll” …
very intelligent Shango/Simian is.
Folks,
The more I read about this case, the more I feel that Joran and his father are deeply involved. I have not heard of any of our elected officials outside of Rep. Jim Bachus of Alabama requesting our government’s particapation. Secretary of State C. Rice is from Birmingham. She grew up there. I was hoping to hear something from her office requesting the Dutch government to assist Aruba more in this investigation. I had also hoped to hear that President George Bush and his wife were deeply concerned about this case and could also help to put pressure on the Dutch to help. The Bush’s have TWO Daughters a few years older. All parent with children are affected by this case. TOO MANY YOUNG GIRLS GO MISSING IN THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD.
I guess I expect some level of concern, assistance and support for citizens when they become victims of crime in other countries from our government. We go into other countries to assist them in establishing a free societies and to protect human rights.
I remember a few years ago about a German couple that were killed in FL. Pressure from the German Goverment help to put the addition pressure on the State and local government to solve the case.
I think the Aruban government has felt this pressure, but due to its social / class structure, their may be some reluctance on the part some citizens there to become involved for fear of retallation. Somebody in Aruba knowns the Answer to “Where in the World is Natalee Holloway?”
Help Folks, her parents need to know. Maybe we should writing to our elected national leaders for help in putting pressure and getting help for Natalee.
I fear that if the three suspects(?) are released and this case does not come to a just end. “Somethin’ Bad” could happen to those identified in the press. I would hate to “Old West, Judge Roy Bean” type justice occur. there are enough people that understand that a beautiful young lady is missing and nothing was done by the powers in charge.
Thanks for listening to my rantings.
subdude…i really believe that Shango knows what he is talkin about too…i think that when he said that have too much on the boy and the hindus that they were really far more involved then what I originally thought….but what does all their fingers burned mean?
Mr. Croes simply repeated Joran’s 1st story that was all a lie
Shango mentioned he was originally from SA. or was that Simian .. I believe that was Simian ..
Ancient tribal religion?
Maybe its my sheltered American upbringing … in which i am not as worldly as I thought?
The content of my post from last night about Lorenzo, all of which is compiled from message board postings. I did not author these. I am posting them anyway, for no reason other than because they may be important. I only want to find an answer for the Holloways. OKAY, here’s more “Lorenzo” posts:
According to AmericaninAruba, Lorenzo has a house on the main road of Savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro.
Per AmericaninAruba:
The Lorenzo guy who was questioned yesterday is known for having underground parties at one of his houses. The house is rather isolated and surrounded by lots of brush & cactus.
A poster from Aruba on Scared Monkeys is claiming that in addition to SGC, there was another guy detained yesterday. This other guy, Lorenzo, is known to be wild and crazy, especially since his father killed himself a few years ago, according to the poster.
The other person, a “Lorenzo” who was allegedly questioned yesterday, is a crazy dude whose father owned the local VW dealership but the father offed himself a few years ago.
the lorenzo character – hsi father owned the Vwagen distributor here….but after his father committed suicide they family sold th ebusiness…
teh SBC (this mornigns arrest) – i have no idea!!!
The lorenzo guy reportedly has connections to drugs and parties. The
Someone named Lorenzo was detained and questioned yesterday, but we don’t think he has been arrested yet. He is known to be a nutcase, maybe capable of something. His dad owned the Volkswagon dealership there but committed suicide 3 years ago and was found hanging in the hallway of their home. Finally, someone suggested that maybe Natalee was taken to an “underground party”. Other posters have explained that these parties are thrown after the bars close, that they are supposed to get permissions before they have them, that the police quickly close down any parties that don’t have permission, but that Lorenzo lives out away from town and does throw parties and the police don’t close those down as easily.
This “Lorenzo” kid’s name was mentioned from the very beginning..In fact it is the first name I heard when this whole thing started…. My guess is that he must have been involved with her sometime during her trip, and that they are now bringing in EVERYBODY that had come in contact with her…. (from what I hear, “lorenzo” is ONE troublemaker…… )I don’t know him, but I know he has had problems with the law before…..something about a fight at one of his parties….can’t remember the details…
does anyone one remember the first couple of night we were all talk ing someone said basically, “when this all shakes out there are going to be major ramifications, there are ppl involved that are high up”.. and it aint gonna be pretty….sounds like this guy knew something about the actual crime…this was post in the other area before we had this forum.. does anyone remeber and also, do you know who this might have been…
I don’t know if his name is Lorenzo or not…
But from the very beginning “the son of an ex Vwagen dealer” was somehow involved….. He was the first one mentioned….
rvmaui
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: missing girl
——————————————————————————–
Blue Volkswagon. maybe van or sedan?
High Road.Dead End. National Park
black plastic bag. moist in a dry area.
2 bulders.
leg twisted back.
Thats all i got.
I’m a little sick now.
I hope they find her.
rvmaui
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: missing girl
——————————————————————————–
A bird could lead the way to the location of her body. or a bird watcher.
what I mean by moist in a dry area, or what I see is an area that is normally dry and water some times splashes or drips on the location.
DNA to be found in a blue volkswagon? not sure I see a blue hatchback of a vehicle with the emblem of volkswagon I think. not blood.
I could be full of shit.
Kristy Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Shango mentioned .. apparantly she had not heard the “buoy toll” …
very intelligent Shango/Simian is.
ok, so what do you mean? my first thought upon reading shango’s comment of that night, was “for whom the bell tolls”…
Kristi: “why did everyone say that Natalee had to have entered her room from the Main enterance to the HI. Where we have known for awhile now that her room was a first floor room with a sliding glass door that LED to the beach …”
she had to enter into the main entrance b/c the sliding glass door cannot be unlock from the outside. how do i know…b/c i have been to that hotel! unless she did not lock her sliding glass door, which that would be highly unlikely. maybe? who knows?
subdude
I think that if you have a freeby e-mail address, only the provider would be able to tell what IP address my messages come from. Not the local internet provider.
If you have an address from the Aruban internet company, your IP address could be found out, but they would have to get into Monkeys servers to match the messages with the origin.
But, DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, JUST HOW I FIGURE IT.
I am glad PvdS now can visit his son.
I am beginning to think that Joran is innocent. Just a gut feeling I have. He has been attacked and locked up way too long not to break if he was truely guilty of anything. I may be proven wrong eventually, but that is my instinct. I think he was with her, and for what ever reason he left her alone. I think he lied because he was scared, and because he knew how it would look to everyone if he was the last person seen with her. He has no way to prove his story. He has no other way to try and protect himself. It seems plausable to me that he is innocent and that it will be proven eventually.
Maybe by “buoy toll” he meant that she hadn’t been transported by water yet and that she was still on the island?
Here are the responses to my inquiries that Checkme was nice enough to offer (here, posted on these boards):
There are few people who fall outside a family-social-control circle here in
Aruba. LvR is one of them. I have mentioned this on multiple posts from the
beginning.
new girl, you know, small society, extended families, no secrets, family
knows everything. this guy has a bad profile, father into drugs, himself
dealing, driving expensive cars, crashing them, not working, father killing
himself because of a drug/alcohol induced depression. in short, no solid
upbringing, wrong connections, careless, living above the law. somehow not
getting caught. Bad boy waiting on the wall to hit him?
That’s what I meant.
Sumeria (with an “e”) was in the Middle East near Kuwait, Iran, Iraq between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. I think the Sumerians are the Mansurs — originally of Lebanese descent. Not technically, geographically correct, but close.
Also, the Sumaria (with an “A” is associated with both Argentina and Mespotomia — same region in middle east as Sumaria.
Mansurs is best I can think of what Simian or Shango were referring to as the “Sumerians”
Kristy
Yes it was Simian that said that he was from SA. In one of those heated me against you days, he stated ” I am an American too, a South American …”
it sounds like while they were staying at the HI that they all mixed and mingled and slept in each other’s rooms…I read somewhere that she did not spend night 2,3, and 4 in her own room, so when they woke up and she was not in the room they didn’t think nothing about it…it was only when she didn’t show after a hour at the airport that they really knew something was wrong.
I also believe he is innocent.
If in the event he is not, I will say .. hmm, oh well. I was wrong.
However, the Simian and Shango’s posts seem oh so real.
oh good call bethany.
tk, i beg to differ. i think the reason joran hasn’t cracked yet is because he KNOWS that natalee will not be found whether she be dead (God forbid) or alive. i think joran (and kalpoe bros.) are small fish in a huge rotten smelly pond.
about shango:
Shango is the deity, orisha whose power is imaged by thunder and lightning. As the legendary fourth king of the ancient kingdom of Oyo, Shango’s rule was marked by capricious use of power. One account asserts that Shango was fascinated with magical powers. He inadvertently caused a thunderstorm and lightning struck his own palace killing many of his wives and children. In repentence he left his kingdom and travelled to Koso where he hung himself. When his enemies cast scorn upon his name, a rash of storms destroyed parts of Oyo. Shango’s followers proclaimed him a god and that the storms were Shago’s wrath, avenging his enemies.
“All of the stories concerning Shango represent the theme of power-capricious, authoritative, procreative, destructive, magical, medicinal, and moral power. Shango’s staff visualizes the unpredictable and violent power of the deity. This power is personified through dance. At the annual festival for Shango, an entranced devotee, the elegunshango , dances to the piercing, staccato rhythms of the bata drum and waves the staff, oshe , with violent and threatening gestures and then suddenly draws it to himself in a motion of quiet composure.”
I thought it was Simian who said he was from SA.
I also feel that the boys as said by Shango, are scapegoats. I honestly do not think JvdS caused any harm to NH.
The IP address will still show regardless if it is a free email or an ISP email addy. Hence Dan Riehl received an email at the begining asking him to please remove JvdS picture off of his site. Dan Riehl traced the IP and it indeed was an originating Aruban IP address.
An IP tells everything.
Bethany: That’s how I understood — the “buoy toll” She had not been transported off the island or her body had not been disposed of in the ocean.
Very Very Intelligent minds that play those games with us. I will definitely give them props for that. Their words could definitely fit into some of what is happening in Aruba. However I think it all fits a lil tooooo snug for me. It is also just way over the top, and most of the time stuff like that isn’t real.. Simian and Shango and Shock will show up again after it is all over and she has been found. Maybe even before then. They will want to tell us if it was all a game or not.
Im sorry, but if she didnt stay in HER room for x number of nights … surely one of her FRIENDS would have spoken up by now and stated … oh yeah, Natalee was with us on this night, or this night.
Im sorry, I do not believe the angel story.
Kristy: Probably one ISP for Aruba. In other words, most if not all emails originating from Aruba trace back to same ISP?
Buoy toll is a poem.
However I am sure there is a hidden context.
Kristy: Why do you think PVDS can now visit son? did I miss something? I know PVDS is out, but that doesn’t mean he has access to son.
“Ask not for whom the bell tolls” is what the grim reaper says…..is that what you are talking about Kristy?
PVDS couldn’t visit his son before his arrest….wonder why now he can after the arrest? now that doesn’t make sense.
Im dont know Aruba’s ISP, but Im just speaking of which DRiehl stated on his site.
I didnt mean that last comment to come out so harsh. I just dont like people who sugar coat and cover up the truth. Im referring to NH and her friends. Hate me if you want, Im only saying it would have been better to say from the beginning .. yes, we were all trashed, yes i think NH was rollin’ … might come as a shock to some people .. but it just might have helped people gather more info in the beginning.
I think shes alive, I see no other way she could be dead. There isnt anywhere to put her body.
Kristy:
What is my IP right now? If I log off and back on, will the address change?
a question for michoo:
since you posted that info on shango, do you know anything about whatever “he/she” is? i mean, is it an ancient religion, or is it a game? (kind of like the game “dungeons & dragons”) just curious.
Simian=monkey
ADJECTIVE: Relating to, characteristic of, or resembling an ape or a monkey.
NOUN: An ape or a monkey.
It was stated on Greta tonight that PvdS “CAN” visit his son now. It was during the interview with the prosecutor.
Yall missed that ????
since this is the sacred monkeys site…i think that might have been why the names shocked the monkey and simian were used….just my opinion
subdude … depends.
here is what I thought the “buoy toll” to be ..
http://www.gracemillennium.com/sojourn/winter98/html/winfall.html
Shango after he was run off ended up being the god of thunder and lightening .. aka storms.
I have been reading and keeping up with everything and not posting. My questions are
1. Was everything in her room packed up? Did it look like she had returned and then left?
2. Where were her roommates? Is it true that evryone was around the pool, in the lobby hanging out?
3. Do you think that she returned and then decided to go back to the casino? Do the casinos stay open 24 hours? Have the security tapes at the casinos, other hotels, etc been looked at?
4. Were the adults on the trip, parents or just 18 year olds trying to be adults?
Her friends that let her leave that nite should really feel bad, or was Natalie the one that always took care of everyone else. Was she always the DDriver ?
These families need some closure. If Joran is really guilty then why hasn’t he broken yet?
subdude .. are you on dial up, dsl or cable. either or. your ip will change on dial up. but not totally. for instance .. if you ip say is … 789.147.458.780 … when you log back on, most likely only the last 3 numbers will change. Im not certain how the protocol works. And some with a static Ip .. have the same Ip all the time.
Ip is the key. it is what infiltrators use to infiltrate you. For a change of terminology.
I agree with you Kristy about her friends and family not speaking up from the beginning. Sometimes I think they are playing the blame game when they themselves have not been totally fourthcoming with information from the get go. It is totally crazy to me that every kid on that trip has not been questioned and interviewed about Natalee’s disappearance. Like they are more worried about the appearances than stating all the facts out loud so that they can be used to evaluate what may have happened to her.
subdude/southernbelle — on one of the Fox News shows tonight (either Hannity & Colmes or Greta) they aired an interview with the lead prosecutor (or attorney general) Karin Janssen, who stated that Paulus & Anita VDS were able to have a private meeting with Joran today. This was the result of some kind of appeal by their lawyers, as I understand it. Also at the end of Greta’s show she interviewed Jossy Mansur (editor of Aruba’s main newspaper), and he also discussed the fact that Paulus & Anita VDS were able to have a private meeting with Joran. The prosecutors aren’t happy about it but say their hands are tied. Presumably this is because he is a minor, but then the prosecutor also said the the mother of the two Kalpoe boys was also able to visit her sons.
thanks kristy….i don’t have cable here or satalite tv and i don’t hear the latest….just have to check here to get the info and the news websites…but i didn’t know that about pvds getting to visit with jvds….but it is weird that he can now visit…and that link you gave did say something about a “buoy bell tolls”….wow good thinkin girl!!!
Regarding IP addresses. The easiest thing to do is go to this URl and find out your IP address. http://www.whatismyip.com/
Then reboot and come back on and do it again. If it’s the same number, then yours doesn’t change. Some ISPs assign dynamic (new number each time) IP numbers and others give you one number. I’ve always heard that a dynamic IP address is the most secure, and hardest for a hacker to track you down. The IP address is like your footprint to whatever sites you visit and communicate through.
Kristy,
Natalee never used drugs of ANY KIND. If she had it anything it was not with her knowledge
Kristy
So if Paul can visit the son, the mesage is that he no longer “contaminate” as they previously said, the investigation or Joran’s responses. So, either they are coming out on Tuesday, or they are keeping them in jail to protect them against someone, or Joran already said what he was afraid to say. His father waived his right to keep quiet and not speak about his son, and perhaps said something that allowed the investigators to get more information from Joran.
A poem with reference to a a bell buoy tolling is at http://www.gracemillennium.com/sojourn/winter98/html/winfall.html
Bell buoy is a buoy with a bell on it the tolls to let yoy know where the buoy is located. If you read the poem. the bell buoy tolls to signal death approaching.
I think Simian/Shango’s point was that she is not dead.
Yes, I agree about the humor behind “shock the monkey” and Simian. However the Shango is much much more deep. However at times shango and simian posted very, very similar things. they know each other definetely. They stated this in their “argument” last or night before last.
thank you izzy
it is part of a religion found in Yorubaland, Nigeria. some of yoruba tradition/rituals are found in the carib and in South America (brazil)b/c many yorubians/yorubans were taken as slaves and transported to the carib and S.A. but i think this shango/simian person is one in the same. it is a college kid messing around with our minds. the shango story is very well known with people who study west africa.
Justin how do you know that for a fact?
yes I do
i have heard from Country moon that one plane of students were questioned in Aruba and that another plane of seniors were questioned in Alabama…but it is my understanding that they all have spoken to the FBI in the US.
Let me tell you this. If I were 18 .. just grad’d high school and headed to Aruba … let me tell you imma gonna be partying it up. There is not way Im going to be “drinking responsibly” .. how coached is that.
Im not trying to start something, but everyone knew from the beginning those lines were coached. that right there should have led everyone to believe, indeed there were things being hidden.
The blame goes both ways.
Kristy/T.K. — I am not as ready as you to accept that NH was doing drugs in Aruba and that her classmates are covering for her. Everything I’ve heard about NH indicates that she was not that kind of girl, and furthermore indications from the MBHS students who went on the Aruba trip (including CountryMoon, a frequent poster here) are that the worst they got up to is drinking more than they would care for their parents to know about.
southernbelle: Play with fire and fingers get burned. Joran/Kalpoes wanted to be little gangster/drug lord/pimps but got in over their heads and NH got kidnapped by the Mansur/Lorenzo Van Rijn group. . . .Dirty Hands polis chief knew these the group and was in on profits from the ring (knew his way around the maze) but was not in on this particular “bad” thing — perhaps kidnapping, rape, etc…
thank you for your information michoo.
the prosecutor was even questioned …. wouldnt it be hard if the PvdS went and talked with JvdS and then the Kalpoes mom went and talked to them and then they came out and collaborated their stories … and then went back in and talked with the boys.
she said yes … but there was nothing more she could do.
ty subdude…i knew you would have the answer….wow that is deep
I dont think that myself or Kristy specifically stated that she was doing drugs?? Did you say that Kristy? I only asked if Justin knew that for a fact. He said he does, but there is no way for anyone but Natalee to know what she has and has not done in her life.
# Michoo Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:05 am
it is part of a religion found in Yorubaland, Nigeria. some of yoruba tradition/rituals are found in the carib and in South America (brazil)b/c many yorubians/yorubans were taken as slaves and transported to the carib and S.A. but i think this shango/simian person is one in the same. it is a college kid messing around with our minds. the shango story is very well known with people who study west africa.
thanks about the location of the studies. I should study west africa now.
Many think xtc is not that bad of a drug. Ill reserve my thoughts .. however I cannot be sure, but I believe it was stated at 14bux a bean it was readily avail.
Im sure nobody was rollin though.
Rave parties consist of rollin.
Gotta go to bed. Husband on business trip and called to chat.
Hope you guys (or someone who can make things happen) liked my re-posted info.
To me, it all made a pretty clear picture. G’Night all.
Justin:
“Natalee never used drugs of ANY KIND. If she had it anything it was not with her knowledge”
These are things that even a mother, twin sister, or boyfriend might not know.
What on earth is your relation to Natalee???
nite new girl…thanks for the info
In the event she did roll, she could have gotten a bunk roll. the tablet could have been stacked with other ingredients when it was pressed. The the ending event might not have been so fun.
It happens.
Nobodys perfect.
maybe Shango is Larenzo which leads back to my theory that a psychopath always likes to lead people back to his crime…Shango you know is here he is just either under a different name or not speaking…either way…these boys down in aruba are more arrogant than intelligent…unless you have a point in doing it stop telling them how wise they are…justice will come in some form or fashion…KARMA won’t let you get away with something like this…
TK, Kristy,
I don’t need to argue with you about it. You can make your own assumptions and if you want don’t wnat to know the truth then I can’t change that. However, It’s simple Nat didn’t use drugs period and in Never! She barely drinks. She didn’t hook up with anyone.
I am sure that with a group that large of kids on an un supervised trip some of them were partaking in more than just drinking. Not saying that it was Natalee, but there is no way you can say for a fact that no one in that group does drugs. You forget that all of us were at one time teenagers, and I know plenty of great kids who have experimented with drugs. That does not make them bad people, and it does not make a 4.0 student anything less than a 4.0 student. It makes them humans. It means that they are curious and that they make mistakes. Life is full of experimentation and learning from our mistakes.
I agree with ARI.
‘night new girl!
my best friend in the whole wide world did xtc in college, and that was back in the early ’90′s. oh and she went to auburn university (meaning it is not a new drug and not newly “popular”). so, it’s been around a while. and my friend is the best person you would ever want to meet. not a “druggie” by any sort of the imagination. she only experimented with it that one time. she did not like it one bit.
all it takes is once.
(no disrespect intended, just telling a story).
Justin T:
First of all, hello. Second, and please, please answer, how do you know so much about NH’s habits. I am not doubting you and you may not want to give too much personal info, but you seem to be the only one from her group that comes on here regularly.
Can you get some of her friends from school who spent substantial time with her on this trip to get on here and let us try to get some info, please!!!!
Not to attack, but to find out where NH was and who she was actually with in the four or five days before her disappearance.
Thanks
Justin T–
Can you answer my questions from above? Are you a schoolmate?
“t’s simple Nat didn’t use drugs period and in Never! She barely drinks. She didn’t hook up with anyone.”
But then it is clear where she is. She was recruited by St. Peter to give a good example to the angels.
TK they did question everyone on the trip and they are not talking about that in order to preserve evidence…they were either questioned in Aruba or the US
TK,
nobody said that was the case I am only refering to Nat. Like I said believe what you wish you obviously know more about her than I do.
…
We’ve seen plenty of pictures of Natalee taken during her week in Aruba. She does not have any of the physical signs of someone who has been using drugs. (ie, no bags under her eyes, no red nose, no bloodshot eyes, and she hasn’t looked like she’s been up all night for days on end. And her eye liner looks like it was put on with a steady hand.)
…
So can you tell me what is the difference in them preserving evidence and the aruban government preserving evidence? That makes no sense what so ever. When Natalees family is demanding answers and making threats as to what they will do if they don’t get them. What makes them any better if they know what the kids from MB told them about the trip, but aren’t letting it out either? Shouldn’t it work both ways here?
God love her…she is good with the eyeliner…
Sooz, good point. She looks refreshed in the photos. Not “up all night”
subdude,
Not true many come on and at least view. Some others post. Some you know about others not perfer not to talk. And I say more than I should but when people start talking about things they don’t know about as a fact then I will speak up.
and whose to say that joran did not smooth talk her into trying it? somebody could have slipped the ghb in her drink and then he talked her into trying the xtc, inhibitions would have been low at that point, judgement would have been off. aren’t ghb and xtc two different drugs?
alcatl Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:16 am
maybe Shango is Larenzo which leads back to my theory that a psychopath always likes to lead people back to his crime…Shango you know is here he is just either under a different name or not speaking…either way…these boys down in aruba are more arrogant than intelligent…unless you have a point in doing it stop telling them how wise they are…justice will come in some form or fashion…KARMA won’t let you get away with something like this…
_________________________________
this shango character is arrogant b/c he thinks of himself as the fourth ruler of Yoruba a god. but i am telling you these are college kids who had to take a traditions class in school, and they are messing w/us.
Kristi and TK,
You seem like nice people. I saw Joran tonite getting into a car to go someplace else
in cuffs, with his crisp, white ironed button-up shirt. The look on his face was very smug, very arrogant. Not a mistaken read of the body language. He had a “fox coming out of the henhouse look on his face” This boy has not had one look on his face indicating a young, scared boy or an uncomfortable boy. The same for DJ CRoes.
Very arrogant liars. They have been proven liars, not by anyone other than their own polis and by their own admissions.
Joran had no way of knowing that Natalee was truly missing, missing when he gave his first alibi. There had been NO polis action according to gov’t spokepersons including:Rueben Trapenberg, no media announcements or coverage, no nothing. Yet he made an alibi to them. Then he changed it. Then he changed it a little more. I understand that you believe he is innocent, but how can you believe he is innocent.
He leaves a girl on a beach at 3am. After taking her to have sex. Daterapers treat their victims better than that. At least they usually leave them in their own environment.
Joran Van Der Sloot is anything but innocent!
Never said she did any of those things. Justin if you are so quick to defend her honor, and say that you know her so well then let us know why we should believe you over all the other people on this board. I am not passing judgment on anyone. I am just keeping an open mind to all things about everyone in this case.
# Sooz Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:21 am
We’ve seen plenty of pictures of Natalee taken during her week in Aruba. She does not have any of the physical signs of someone who has been using drugs. (ie, no bags under her eyes, no red nose, no bloodshot eyes, and she hasn’t looked like she’s been up all night for days on end. And her eye liner looks like it was put on with a steady hand.)
That makes me laugh.
You think all drugs do those things to you. Wake up.
justin, are you one of the ones that was interviewed on fox? with mary frances and ruth?
T.K./Kristy/Ari — You seem incapable of believing that a modern day teenager can get through life without experimenting with drugs. Remember that Natalie is the kind of girl who attends Bible studies, performs charitable work, and is a member of honor societies. She is from the Bible belt. I can well imagine that going to a bar like Carlos and Charlies and having a few drinks there might have been a walk on the wild side for her.
Justin T: Good to know and thanks. Was she hanging out with a group of gamblers during the three or four nights before her disappearance? Aruban gamblers, men, not people from AL on the trip.
Please answer and please check with your people. Is it likely there is videotape from the casino showing this? Again, I am not judging. Man, if you knew my history, you would know I am not judging.
Please answers this question first and maybe you can’t answer more. Have you been asked/instructed by authorities not the share information here or elsewhere while the investigation is pending?
# Elaina Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:24 am
Kristi and TK,
You seem like nice people. I saw Joran tonite getting into a car to go someplace else
in cuffs, with his crisp, white ironed button-up shirt. The look on his face was very smug, very arrogant. Not a mistaken read of the body language. He had a “fox coming out of the henhouse look on his face” This boy has not had one look on his face indicating a young, scared boy or an uncomfortable boy. The same for DJ CRoes.
Very arrogant liars. They have been proven liars, not by anyone other than their own polis and by their own admissions.
Joran had no way of knowing that Natalee was truly missing, missing when he gave his first alibi. There had been NO polis action according to gov’t spokepersons including:Rueben Trapenberg, no media announcements or coverage, no nothing. Yet he made an alibi to them. Then he changed it. Then he changed it a little more. I understand that you believe he is innocent, but how can you believe he is innocent.
He leaves a girl on a beach at 3am. After taking her to have sex. Daterapers treat their victims better than that. At least they usually leave them in their own environment.
Joran Van Der Sloot is anything but innocent!
I didnt come here to argue. I will not retaliate. You dont want that.
Keep putting sugar on your frosted flakes!
Justin T:
Have you been asked/instructed by authorities not the share information here or elsewhere while the investigation is pending?
He didn’t look arrogant to me. He looked like he wanted people to look in his eyes, to see that he didn’t kill her. I am not saying he doesn’t know more. But I think he is under protective custody. He looked like a spoiled brat that has finally seen that there is consequences to some actions in life, and sometimes things happen that you didn’t intend to happen and that you are way way over your head.
I have allready stated that If indeed JvdS is not innocent, then I will say ok. Hes not innocent. YOu act like you want me to apologize for something.
Natalee’s family know more evidence than any of us…they are frustrated because semmingly involved people are being set free…a DJ who walks into the police station to support the story (lies) of JVDS and a dad who admits that he told the boys everything would be okay because you can’t sentence without a body and there is no body…HOW THE HELL DID PVDS KNOW THERE WAS NO BODY???? WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS TO NOT KNOW THESE GUYS GO TO THE POLICE AND LIE…WHY WOULD THE POLICE SAY NAT WAS ON TAPE WALKING INTO THE HOTEL WHEN SHE CLEARLY WASN’T….come on TK let’s not be naive…the family is demanding answers because the whole sitautions on all ends is crap on the part of all players in this thing that are in Aruba..the Twitty Holloways are being too nice…just asking for answers…Can you file a Civil Suite in Aruba, request a change of venue out of the Caribbean, becasue if you can that is the only way these poor people will get any justification..
T.K.
you don’t have to believe anything. just stating facts on things your speculating upon.
tons of guys go out and meet girls for one night stands. Tons of guys could care less how that one night stand gets home afterwards. Does not mean they are killers or kidnappers. Arrogance and confidence does not make a murderer. either way your opinion is your opinion, just as mine is mine. I may be proven wrong here. If that happens then so be it. I just have a feeling that he is being railroaded here. Not trying to step on anyones toes.
Joran looked like someone who got clean clothes from mom and dad and was happy that he had gotten to see them. Thats what he looked like.
alcatl:
The reason that the three are not talking is because if they provide too much info, they will be fed to the fish after everybody goes home!. Recall also that Joran passed every question in the lie detector (presumably also the question if he hurt her, or if she died accidentally), except for the question when did he see her last. Here is where Toronto’s suggestion comes in. It is highly likely that they went to an “esoteric” party. Joran will never confess that, because he would not dare implicate that kind of crowd. Naturally, one of his worries has been if he is going to be charged for murder. His dad reassured him, “no body, no crime” not because they have disposed the body, but from what they know there is no indication that she has been murdered.
Isnt the board for everyone to discuss and speculate?
I just had my second message hung up for being moderated. Who makes the rules on what comments get moderated, Tom?
…
whatever you stated in your msg, re spell it. i know like kaseeno cannot be typed. what did you say. spell it differently
was it a good juicy message subdude? lol
Ari, Kristy, and TK, I agree with you.
Ari … I had been looking for the info about the lie detector test. where can I find that ?
I got the feeling, also, from seeing the footage of Joran that he was looking at the camera so that the audience would see him as a real person…not a monster.
.
Continuing on an earlier post.
If indeed Natalie is now with that kind of crowd, it is unfair to even ask Joran to provide more information, because even the entire FBI does not have the capability to protect him in the aftermath.
elaina has a point. why would a boy leave a young girl alone on a beach but then later on text message his boys to let them know he got home? it does not make sense.
picture this: you decided to defy your parents by sneaking out of your home to go party and gamble on a school night w/finals the next day. during your party night out, you pick up a tourist girl along the way- make out w/her, and then leave her at a beach alone at 2am…then after your carefree night is over, you all of a sudden decide to be responsible, and call your boys to let them know you got home safe. weird!
.
Thanks Watcher. Glad to see my opinion doesn’t tick everyone off.
Kristy and Jutin T:
Was she hanging out with a group of gampbellers during the three or four nights before her disappearance? Aruban gampbellers, men, not people from AL on the trip.
Please answer and please check with your people. Is it likely there is videotape from the kaseeno showing this? Again, I am not judging. Man, if you knew my history, you would know I am not judging.
.
Kristi:
The lie detector thing was all over here and Dan Riehls and the Websleuths, but I don’t recall if it was from the channels or from a newspaper.
Justin T: Still out there?
subdude,
NO that was anther rumor that got started somehow.
YES, Bethany! That is what I thought! I think he was baring his soul. I think the little bit of a smile was an embarassed one. Like, yes I have been a lowlife, but I didn’t kill her.
Justin T:
The kaseeno thing was a rumor?
I wasnt there …..
Shango/Simian stated … the revenge of a scorned lover ….
I dont recall the exact phrase
I believe she was playin the kaseeno … pun intended
Thanks watcher!!
Justin
Was there anyone on the trip with her that might have been upset or jealous that she was hanging out with Joran?
I’m starting to buy into the idea that these guys (Joran and the brothers) are being kept safe from Lorenzo and crew. But what about the parents? Why are they safe? Do they not know anything at all or are they not at risk from Lorenzo because so much attention is on their homes? If that’s the case, that wouldn’t Joran also be safe at home? Or would his release cause the media to go away, causing things to go back to normal? What kind of journalists are Greta and Geraldo that they don’t have enough sense/nerve to go check out Lorenzo’s rave house?
Subdude,
There were locals and everyone else at the tables. Someone I know started this thing that Natalee was hanging out with some coloumbian drug lord or something. That didn’t happen.
I agree, Joran is being protected in custody
Interesting how all the pictures that were taken whilst on vacation were apprehended/confiscated by the parents or chaperones .. not LE. and that they were not to be developed.
This is what I hear.
My senior trip …. if i was to take pictures … there is no way im turning over my memories. Regardless. Doesnt that make you a little curious to know what might have been photographed. I mean just a bunch of party girls/guys. but why hide the pictures.
Im sure Mr. Justin can correct me.
Michoo:
He didn’t leave her on the beach, nor HI, that is a lie. He took her to a party, but he doesn’t dare say that – his life is at stake if he does. Incidentally, this is the sort of thing that Beth suspects and waiting it out hoping that 3 boys will confess is a joke of an investigation. It seems that if this is the case they are stuck. Joran and the others will keep silent until the end.
Can anyone tell me if this “Lorenzo” has been discussed by any of the news people? Is he only someone whos been mentioned on this board, or does he actually exsist? I never heard about him except on this site.
not as in someone “I” know but someone I understand started the rumor about hanging with gambler or something
Justin T: Thanks for being on here. You must know more than you can share.
So far, your comments (to my recollection) have been strictly limited to telling people when things are not accurate. It seems you can’t offer info.
Know that most, if not all, of us are trying to help.
See if you can’t share something more.
My tel is (954) 614-9453 anytime. I know I am a fool to post it, but . . . .
Night all, I’m wupped.
You cannot hear the music in the daytime. Shango says.
Joran is being held possibly for protection, but also due to the pressure from the media and the states.
I bet Aruba will be glad when the media leaves.
The parents are safe as long as the boys keep their mouths shut. That is why “the lamb is biting his tongue bloody”.
Ari, I agree these boys got in way over their head trying to impress a beautiful girl. Can you really blame the Dad for advising them? They are not afraid of the courts or the US….this goes WAY up.
All of Shango’s information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.
The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation
Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope
The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,
while the lions pace silently in the bush.
Dirty Hand is the link!
The lamb, the shivas, the elder whispering, exiting like theives in the night, clothed with invisible armor
If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.
Threadsurfers listen!
The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.
The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.
A new key must be found to open unknown doors.
The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum.
But unseen tides pull babylonian seas through Arawak Moats, bittering the waters.
DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.
The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.
Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.
DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.
But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.
The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.
The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation is a mere trifle.
All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!
It has been proven that the lamb, the shivas, and the elders are not the breach in Arawak Armour!
Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.
The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.
Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.
The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.
Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.
If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.
Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.
He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder
Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation
I must feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Ari, are you a local?
Subdude you are really asking for it now. lol Posting that number is a huge mistake if it is real. lol Hope you have a goodnight, that is if your phone doesn’t start ringing soon.
I also think that is why the PVDS and depok were so adament about telling Joran to SAY NOTHING. Because they know that all of consquences that would happen from saying anything.
Welcome Shango.
Ohhhh look who joined us. Mr. shango.
someone writes:
“Was she hanging out with a group of gampbellers during the three or four nights before her disappearance? Aruban gampbellers, men, not people from AL on the trip.”
Please answer and please check with your people. Is it likely there is videotape from the kaseeno showing this? Again, I am not judging. Man, if you knew my history, you would know I am not judging. ”
_________________________________________
aruba has like three major bars/clubs..and they are very small. however, the isle has plenty of casinos! everyone that visits aruba visits the casinos. so i am sure she went to the casinos. My 60 yr old aunt and uncle visit the casinos. along with the old people! aruba is not the party island it is being potrayed as.
It will take me all night to decipher.
thats what he wants. lol
Shango :
Does Shango and Simian fear one another?
Let’s hear more about Lorenzo. Someone send an email to Greta or Nancy Grace and see if they’ll pursue that angle. Surely they are running out of things to talk about and keep their ratings up unless they find something new.
Shango,
What do you study?
Lets work together here. I know who most everyone is. But Im not certain I know the “lions”
Shango … DH is leaving. Correct ?
Shango–who is Lorenzo?
Shango,
has DH or KING been on tv?
I want some of what Shango has been smoking.
Why don’t you guys do something decent and tip the authorities with some of these alternate theories. C’mon – have some courage and dignity rather than posting this stuff here for sheer fetish pleasure. Someone may have died, but the locals seem to be loyal to either the VDS family or are afraid to point the finger at the true culprits (publicly or anonymously to the authorities). The Arubans deny it, but you appear scared of the drug mafia (columbians or whoever). Why have they taken you captive?
Don’t worry – even though the media may leave, the holloways will stay until they get justice.
MAY THE GHOST OF NH HAUNT THE LOCAL ARUBANS FOREVER UNTIL THEY HELP SOLVE THIS CASE – DISGUSTING COWARDS.
I think they realized they can distract a lot of people with new theories and a little bit of flirting, and the idea that Natalee is kidnapped and moved to another country by big drug dealers.
When that does not work, they will come with a new distraction about a jealous boyfriend who may have killed her. Like if the ex boyfriend would know that Joran and the Kalpoes were going to leave Natalee at a beach near the Marriot hotel, at 2:30 in the morning of May 30th.
If you read the posts on this page, you barely see anyone talk about Paulus VDS coaching his son and the friends of his son on May 31st, that there will be no case if there is no body. The same father who told them to lie about their activities with Natalee on the night of May 30th.
Just remember, Joran and the Kalpoes would not need to lie for the whole time they have been in jail, if they have not harmed Natalee. And Father VDS would not need to coach them if he son was not involved in a crime.
The Arwaks need money
Shango:
I wassss going to sleep.
The key is Polis Chief. I knew it was no coincidence he is resigning.
Arawak King is the Prime Minister who is also dirty and apparently coming up for reelection. Its all about the wampum.
I am going to have to study your message.
Bloggers, keep the focus on the Police Chief.
Shango does not fear the Simian
Shango feels the Simian speaks speculatively
desiring to know, but remaining clothed in darkness
Kristy:
No, I am from the States, but I am well travelled.
JvdS has not harmed her. I feel sure.
right on, ydave!!!
hey shango…how long did your message take all day? you don’t fool me for a second college boy/girl…however, i am sure you are a boy. if you know so much, you should contact the proper officals…b/c a life depends on it. but i am sure- you are a bored teenage college boy.
shango,
do you feel that yourself is also “clothed in darkness”?
Shango,
The Arwaks need “more” wampum?
SHANGO – You are the biggest coward of all! If what you imply is really true, and if you really have information, you should anonymously tip it to the authorities rather than leave cryptic messages here. If you’re leaving messages here in order to help the case, would it not be more effective to communicate this directly to the authorities? If you’re afraid of the real culprits (columbians or whoever), don’t you think that by posting here, you’ve already disclosed yourself to the columbians or whoever may be monitoring this site. THEREFORE, you are honest in what you say and are a coward (for not speaking up) or stupid (for speaking on here), or you’re masturbating on the thought of these alternative theories.
clothed in darkness meaning simian doesn’t really know what is going on?
lol that was funny.
Shango,
How is Mary?
neither one of them know any more than we do about this case.
Maybe the local authorities are afraid also? for themselves and their families?
Ydave – You’re right – these guys post a different theory every week as long as it does not implicate the VDS family. Even if Joran did not do it, he knows what happened with NH or where she went.
You can keep VDS safe in jail, but he will not be safe from the Holloways if he’s ever released.
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….
DirtyHand is the the Keystone!
The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.
Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?
DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort
Hopefully, authorities moniter these sites huh?
Dirty hand is the keystone … hes the staller.
The Holloways don’t think Jaron did it. Just that he could tell them more about that night. If something happened to him, the link would be gone.
THANK YOU for returning, Shango!
Ignore the people here who want to distract and deter the curious and the driven.
Have you read the thread? Am I following your clues? I have tried.
Shango,
The scorned lover … an arwak, or babylonian? friend of the lamb ?
The locals on here make Aruba sound like a terrible place w/ ppl scared of drug mafia and the police and govt filled w/ corruption. I thought Aruba was a paradise before this. I hope a hurricane wipes out your island this summer.
i cannot beleive people are actually thinking this shango guy/girl whatever is like for real. just like that person messaged:
shango what are you smoking!
Sooooo “if they cannot out a lamb to manger” you mean let them go?
If the keystone falls, it will crush the lamb, the shivas, and the elder
the noise of the crashing arch shall scare the lions from their den
DirtyHand is the key to All!
They are protected from hurricanes …
Does:
DirtyHand = Joran?
Lamb = Natalie?
Lions = Lorenzo and Co.?
New Girl – how can you call yourself “driven” – are you doing anything about this case?
shango if you know so much then why dont you just tell everyone where Natalee is. Be done with your word games and speak clearly for once.
wb new girl…shango…wow i left for just a few minutes…i missed a lot
You are wrong. You should view previous threads for clues. It took us a long time to decipher the code.
I feel like Shango believes he was told us where she is. We just cant figure it out.
Dirty hand= police chief
Lamb=joran
lions=lorenzo…dj…whoever else involved (i think)
out a lamb to manger – can’t get Jvds to talk?
southern girl – you have not missed anything – just a bunch of b.s. – what is the email address for greta or nancy grace – this meaningless speculation of theories on here is geting old. Shango – maybe we can summon you to appear as a witness
Don’t waste time trying to get him to ” speak plainly” he won’t . He really seems right on about things
I feel like Shango believes he was told us where she is. We just cant figure it out.
I meant …….. he has told us ^^^
All Secrets are hidden in Plain View
shango…you mentioned a handicap…would this have anything to do with the golf course by close to the lighthouse or the mini golf course in oranjestad? you mentioned the other night about you having a handicap of 12
observer Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:06 am
The locals on here make Aruba sound like a terrible place w/ ppl scared of drug mafia and the police and govt filled w/ corruption. I thought Aruba was a paradise before this. I hope a hurricane wipes out your island this summer.
______________________________________________________
i guess you have never been to aruba. if you had, you would never say such things.
Have to get DH to talk before he leaves?
Issue a summons to scaredmonkeys to find out who these posters are who claim to have credible information and force them to testify.
I think new girl is losing it. lol She sounds like some cult follower over this Shango person.
Casanostra:
Lamb = Joran
Shivas = Brothers
Elder = PVDS
DirtyHand =? Chief of Police
Lions =? Inner circle in Aruba connected to casinos e.t.c.
Again, Shango … how is Mary?
test
Michoo – you’re own fellow arubans talk about how the police, government officials and families would not speak the truth or expose the underground drug industry – don’t you agree that paints your society in a bad light?
Shango,
is Natalee close by her mother?
shango…yes please answer kristy…please
the cowboys must search at night … You cannot hear the music in the day.
Shango, Do you hear the music every night ?
The Arawaks make the cowboys dance so the smoke signals are lost in the wind
How can one hunt for lions without a local guide?
How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?
DirtyHand still commands Arawak war parties, confusing outlanders…
Time is the enemy of the cowboys
and friend to the Arawaks, the Babylonians, and the hunted Jungle beasts
corruption is everywhere
Shango did not mention a Handicap
That was the fetid Simian
New girl and Checkme are afraid of the truth, because it involves Paulus and Joran VDS.
They are part of the team sent to distract readers and true Monkeys.
if he has “told us” where she is Kristy. then he should be held AS accountable for whatever happens to Natalee as the people who took her. If he knows her where abouts he needs to speak clearly. He needs to let the police know that. If he doesn’t and it results in more bad things happening, I only hope that GOD punishes him for his little game.
Although I still believe he is full of crap. 
the dutch marines are coming to help … might they be a “local guide”
Has the VDS family paid Checkme and some other loyalists on here?
Shango,
some kind of undercover agent has to be sent into the rave underworld. before too much time has gone by?
DH = Police Chief
Arawak King = Prime Minister
Babylonians = Dutch
Lions = drug/prostitution/slavery cartel
Shango says that the chief, PM and Lions are running durgs, prostitutes and sex slaves and that teh VDSs and Kalpoes are in on it as well. One big happy family of scum
The Chief is the weakest link, the most easy to expose. VDSs and Kalpoes are talking to prosecutors. But the PM and Chief will say that they can not investigate the allegations because their hands are tied by Dutch law. This is one good way to check Shango’s veracity.
Raise hell about why Chief is resigning. Raise hell about why no one will look into allegations of drugs,hookers,sex slaves and see if we get some excuse from the PM about how its up to the Dutch to conduct the investigation. If you hear something along these lines, Shango’s Olorum is credible.
Federal Bureau, can you apply on pressure? Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?
International pressure might help, or Dutch government might tell the world to go to hell.
Make noise on this board for starters.
DirtyHand is in the cage
Kept safe from the lions
Lamb is not safe from the lions
Croes was told to crow and now he is not to crow
He is of the same years as a Lion so he knows
Delicate balance not to be broken
Or it all comes crashing down
sorry bout that…i sometimes get y’all confused with all this cryptic talk
wow…just because posters are looking into other options instead of “JVDS did it” doesn’t mean that they are not true monkeys or here to distract.
yanno, they always say the biggest clues are right under our noses. Shango says … her father has been close. In fact, he said everyone has been close .. even missed evidence that was overlooked.
I feel like they are searching the wrong end of the island !!!! Go south !!
For those who think Shango has danced with the lions
or walked the maze
they have not read diligently
Eyes of God see from afar
If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten…
A bunch of us lawyers should call the HOlloways and get on their legal team. It’s time to take action in our own hands. File a complaint against this board to reveal the identity of posters as this is a murder case – enough of a public interest to reveal identity and serve as witness. Fantasy time is over.
the cowboys must search at night … You cannot hear the music in the day.
Shango, Do you hear the music every night
_________________________________________________
i guess your smoking what that shango cat is smoking…this is crazy stuff.
and to the obersver: i am from miami! my family and i have been visiting aruba for ten years…we go every year. in fact, some family members were there when nh was there. of course, they did not stay at the HI!
Kristy:
I don’t thing that Shango knows anything more about Mary’s fate than we do. He can make intelligent guesses, also extrapolate but that is all.
How do we find out “where” Natalee rolled through the maze? Sorry fellow readers, but this is intruiging
Subdude says “Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?”
Subdude should know that the Police chief, the Attorney General, PVDS, and most of the officials of the Aruba justice ministry are from the Netherland. The friendship among them, and the inherent sentiment that they have to help one of their own are the reason why this investigation is getting nowhere.
I did not mean shango danced with the lions.
Michoo, I was asking Shango a question regarding something he has posted previously.
File a complaint against this board to reveal the identity of posters as this is a murder case
Observer:
Get a US judge (any judge) to say (from the bench) that this is a murder case and I’ll give you $1,000.
“observer Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:07 am
New Girl – how can you call yourself “driven” – are you doing anything about this case?”
Such as WHAT? I have searched and searched for information to the limited extent that it is available to me. I have posted my thoughts about possible avenues that have been under-explored. I am not the media, I am not Aruban, I have no personal knowledge but only my brain to try to interpret what’s out there, and I am not law enforcement. I am not independently wealthy enough to fly to Aruba to try to bust up drug cartels by myself, and also I am female so I am not really eager to get my ass kicked or raped by busting the allegedly psycho-rapist-dog-killer’s-gang-rapists’s party house.
But by all means, feel free to stick your neck out if you want.
“searching the wrong end of the island”
i can search the island in two days. One part of the island is like s. florida flat and green; the other, like nevada! get real people! shango/simian are full of shit…and if they are for real, they need to be the men they are and tell the authorities. …..!
Yeah I think that he gets what he wants each time he posts. Everyone starts attacking each other, and then the outrageous ramblings begin again.
Ari,
Shango posted quite a bit about Mary in the past days. From afar, how is Mary? Is her fate secure?
Wasn’t the “casanostra” mentioned in the newgirl posts about Mansur and the drugs/money laundering cartel linked to Aruban PM?
Is Natalee tucked away in a house somewhere? Close to the elder?
In your senseless rage you wave your sword recklessly
as such you would sever the limb even of a defender of the faith
If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.
Believe.
When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen
but do not ask how it is they hear
I dont attack anyone. I listen. Maybe you should too.
There isnt anything we can do, If indeed this is true. Seems as if … Hands are tied.
Are the VDS neighbors back from vacation, I wonder?
Ari – I think a judge would find that it’s more reasonable to conclude that this is a murder case (or perhaps voluntary or involuntary manslaughter) than a runaway case. What other alternative is there? Maybe kidnapping and that she’s still alive. But w/ Aruban authorities already implying that there’s little hope that she’ll be found alive, i think a U.S. judge can rely on that in calling this a murder case.
New girl – how old are you? You don’t have to fly to Aruba and face some Columbian drug lord to help – you can simply email anonymous tips. I guess I can do that in the morning, in addition to legal assistance.
Question – what does it mean to be a “monkey” – does the motto on the website “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” really apply? we can theorize but just not speak out – just follow?
Do you people honestly believe that the disappearance of Natalee has anything to do with a huge drug cartel and money laundering sceme??? Come on now. Why in the world would people in that deep risk everything over one 18 year old foreigner? It just does not make sense people. Her disappearance is much smaller than that, it is not some huge cover up. Unless she is something more than just a missing High school graduate from MB.
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.
olorum = sun?
observer– I would most def. hope these tips would reach the proper authorities. But should we not wait until at least some of these things are validated. Sorry this appears to offend you so much
are you olorum — or a follower? Is fate sealed or malleable?
shango…it was said earlier that country moon and others frequent this site and that all the clues that are given are passed along to Beth and the family memebers that are in Aruba
Kristy – simple question. You say that if this is true, hands are tied. What does that mean? What do you mean that hands are tied? That is the kind of defeatist attitude that is so frustrating.
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den
I think it means that most people are supposed to be monkeys, but those that question things should be scared monkeys. but are questioning anyways.
Kristy I wasnt speaking about you when I stated that people attack each other. Maybe you should read the other posts here and see who is attacking others. Besides why get all bent out of shape all of the sudden. You have been speaking your mind all night just like the reast of us. Some of just choose not to listen to Shango, because he refuses to speak clearly. If he knows so much then he should speak up about it in a way that will help Natalee.
TK – the drug lords are not responsible for Natalee’s fate — the COVERUP may lead to them. That is why they care.
TK – tributaries by definition stray from the river to leave the ocean
Is Olorum a sky god?
Shango,
is Natalee near to her mother? or do you not know that as of now?
Question – what does it mean to be a “monkey” – does the motto on the website “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” really apply? we can theorize but just not speak out – just follow?
That is a very nice question Observer! I love it!
How long does a cat hold a mouse before eating it?
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.
ok so now how do we go about putting pressure on them to find out why this dude is trying to leave….especially in the middle of an investigation…but then didn’t they say something about his petition to go back in as cheif of polis being rejected (or something like that)?
Olorum is:”Como its name in language yoruba indicates it, Olorum sends to the “gentleman or teacher to us of the sky”, to the star king, giver of light and life. It is for that reason that by those days we will be revitalized with its energy and we will be infected with the enthusiasm which vigilant overflowed in streets, seats and theaters of this aged ciudad”
T K:
I was not thinking in terms of a drug cartel, but in terms of underground cabaret/casino owners and their regular patrons. Abducted, imprisoned, on her own will, or something in between, I have no idea. Here is where everybody’s mind stops I think.
I didnt take anything personally. I just thought someone was referring to me. I dont hesitate to speak my mind. I understand some are not believers and I am fine with that.
Hands are tied was something Shango said. I was repeating.
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…
Olorum is the god of the sky, Kristy.
ydave, thanks, I am not familiar with Aruban govt.
What about Prime Minister? Not from the Netherland?
“The rule of the Arawak King is final word.”
Does the PM make the decision to investigate corruption of Chief of Police, Attorney General, JVDS? If PM decides not to investigate, is that the final word on the subject?
Is the PM elected? Appointed? Is he up for reelection or reappointment soon?
TK – were you being genuine when you complimented my question about the meaning of monkeys? It was a serious question. Why are ppl supposed to be monkeys (copy-cat/followers)? Hey, were you referring to me as the person who causes agitation and fighting among each other. I’m not trying to get others to attack each other — it’s clear who/what I’m attacking.
Why would the Arawaks fear a lamb, tiny toothed little beast?
The chieftan would sacrifice the lamb,
but the demons would not leave for such a petty sacrifice
The Lamb knows, but doesn’t rule
Lambs aren’t knigs of the Jungle
So if the commissioner resigns is he open for questioning? Can he be arrested? He is withholding evidence and obstructing
the cat eats the mouse when it dies. Would the cat share his food ?
Is this a cult? Do I need to be a believer?
SUBDUDE (I’m yelling for you here, because I feel like some are trying to drown us out) – you asked “Federal Bureau, can you apply on pressure? Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?”
SUBDUDE, I might have thought Dutch, or Aruban Dutch, cooperation would be possible, but the “alleged” information I posted earlier from http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm suggests that it COULD (maybe) be that the Dutch in Aruba are profiting the MOST from the money laundering, drug trafficking, associated banking, and the rest (other than perhaps Sicilians and ??? Sicilian-Columbians?.
LORD knows I AM NOT professing to know the truth here. But READ that article.
You do not have to rely on the anonymous “Shango” to accept the validity of this inquiry. It is ALL OVER the net, and (I bet it is all over academia) IF IF IF .. YOU CARE AT ALL, it is right there at your fingertips.
No I was stating that I believe that Shango and Simian with there code cause the people to start attacking each other. Every time one of them post this starts up.
I was being genuine when I said I loved that question. It makes sense to ask that questions in reference to this type of discussion board. Because this type of discussion brings out all of those things (followers, copiers, and realist). All of that in one place makes for the great thought processes that end up coming out in the end.
Will the Dutch marines help any? or do they KNOW too.
a monkey likes to play pranks…pull hair, tease. a monkey is of folly!
if they have not found her on that island, guess what…they are not going to. island is too small. half the island is rock and sand!
Direct Speech leads to homogenized thought
ShangoSpeak brings out all emotions, possibilities, and destinies!
Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:33 am
TK – tributaries by definition stray from the river to leave the ocean
Shango,
Doesnt a tributary also feed into something new like a larger river or lake? If you are calling yourself a “tributary” then what is it that you are trying to feed into??
Will the lamb and the elder survive ?
casanostra: I believe you are right and the Polis Chief, Prime Minister, JVDS, PVDS the Kalpoes, Stephen Croes and Lorenzo VanRijn are all intertwined with casanostra dealing dope, prostitution, etc…
I think Joran gots his drugs to deal there and dabbled in the sex slave trade. PVDS pimped young girls as well. Remember “PIMPle is about to pop” right before PVDS arrest?
Shango – am I off target in my assumption that the sinister forces control the power in this situation?
TK – are you a guy or girl? Where do you live?
I am female and I live in the USA (NC).
Main Entry: 2ca ·po
Pronunciation: ‘kà ¤-(“)pO, ‘ka-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural capos
Etymology: Italian, head, chief, from Latin caput
: the head of a branch of a crime syndicate
shango mentioned that the capo had whispered
OK – mid-atlantic guy here – md area. you seem smarter than some others here.
ShangoSpeak brings out all emotions, possibilities, and destinies!
That is the truest thing that I know you have said the whole time. But in the case of life or death, which is what we are talking about here. You need to use “Direct Speech “
Well, if the polis chief is crooked than what about the rest of the force. Does this give new meaning to “Policemans Ball”? Do the patrolmen go round up young things for Mr. DirtyHand to play with? and typically speaking a cat will play around with it’s prey for a good , long while.
so are we talkin mafia?
Direct Speech leads to homogenized thought
_________________________________________________
do you say you break uniformity in our thought process?
Michoo,
the smallest spots can have hiding places
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night
i did hear that if you paid a certain amount to the cops that they would give you permission to have raves….this came from a “posters” in reihl world….he also said that if you are alone at night on the beach with a love interest…that the police would get their turn at the girl plus get your money and jewlery in order to “look the other way”.
New Girl: While I am not trying to attack your research.
Who cares about the fact that the Aruban government might be corrupt with “the Dutch in Aruba are profiting the MOST from the money laundering, drug trafficking, associated banking, and the rest. ”
What does it really have to do with Natalee disappearing?
Besides every country in this world is fullof corruption. Even the USA.
I heard that was mexico … about gettin their turn.
does anyone speak dutch. I would like an article translated, plz.
watcher;
that is true. but even when they bury their dead…caribs do it above ground! well, there is always the ocean.
A tributary (or affluent or confluent) is a contributory stream, a river that does not reach the sea, but joins another major river (a parent river), to which it contributes its waters, swelling its discharge. A tributary joins another river at a confluence. When a river’s tributaries are listed in orographic sequence, they are in order from the highest (nearest the source of the river) to the lowest (nearest the mouth).
The descriptive terms right tributary and left tributary always apply from the perspective of looking downstream (in the direction the current is going), similarly to the river banks.
The opposite of a tributary is a distributary; a river branch that flows away from the main stream.
A river and all its tributaries drain the watershed of the river.
Observer, Thanks for the comment. I don’t know if it is true or not, but thanks anyways. There are a lot of smart people on here. You can tell by reading what they write.
new girl: Thanks for yelling. I read the article. Will need to read it again, but I answered one of my own questions — Dutch govt has claimed it can not stop drug trade in Aruba because of “constitutional constraints”
In other words, Arawak King (Prime Minister) has final word on whether drug trade gets investigated in Aruba. What a surprise.
Right, Shango?!
Sorry Subdude. I realize I probably sounded like I was directing this (or, God forbid, even yelling this) at you: (“LORD knows I AM NOT professing to know the truth here. But READ that article….etc.”)
I meant that remark generally, not for you. I believe you are looking for and weighing all the information out there.
Thanks for the definition Watcher. I am still trying to figure out exactly what he meant by that one. Funny though he didn’t answer my question about it.
kristy,
click on this link then select dutch to english and translate yourself!
http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html
so subdude….what did ya come up with?
Justin T
If you are still here,
From the north end of town, where the wall was made, you and your fellow grads are in our thoughts and prayers. If you need to talk, not about NH, just life in general, we can have a cup of coffee. BTW a common acquaintance, won’t mention his last name, 40ish guy, first name Joey.
Main Entry: Car ·ib
Pronunciation: ‘kar-&b
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin Caribes (plural), from Spanish Caribe, of Cariban origin — more at CANNIBAL
1 : a member of an Indian people of northern So. America and the Lesser Antilles
2 : the language of the Caribs
FYI
Shango,
Your comments have been a hot topic @ Riehl World view the past 48 hours. Why don’t you post there as well? It is tough going back and forth between boards trying to decipher your messages. Natalie Holloway discussions 15 – 21 are flooded with bloggers trying to solve two mysteries.
1. where is Natalie?
2. What is Shango trying to tell the bloggers at SM?
http://www.riehlworldview.com
We would lke you to join us tomorrow night.
As always praying for Natalie and her family. Nancy Grace is on CNN.
Good night.
Thank you for the link. If I wanted a verbose translation I would have done that myself. Id rather have an accurate translation by someone who speaks dutch.
kristy,
I think you and I would actually get along great! lol You are quite fiesty. I like that. lol
it is not a “verbose translation”. Most companies use this site to translate documentation. there is a similar site in arabic. thought i might help…guess not!
thats cool. I just generally speak my mind … some like it, some dont. I try not to step on toes though …. that hurts
if you are registered in Sm forum, you should send me a pm with your email addy and we can chat …
Im bout to head to bed, its 3am here.
I understand, TK – wish he’d answer my questions, too.
OK, well if its a good translation site. I will try it. I thank you for the link. Most translation pages suck. I will try yours. Im going to try it now.
east coast time here too. I am going to bed myself! Maybe I will register for a forum and give you the email addy next time I see ya. Goodnight everyone.
I think NH’s parents have their suspicions about “something bigger” going on, but can’t get the Aruban gov’t to move.
Shango says, and I agree, put pressure on world media to insist on answers about why Polis Chief is resigning.
Listen, the timing is no coincidence.
Also, Steve Croes explanation about why he showed up at the police station to back JVDS and Kalpoe’s alibi that NH was dropped at HI is complete and total bullshit. “Because I wanted to help out three guys whom I don’t know” And Croes admitted this in an interview. NOT rumor.
Two of the oddest events I can think of occur in the midst of this disppearance and investigation. Come on.
We have nothing to lose on getting media to focus on Polis Chief resignation. It sickens me to think she is alive and clock is ticking.
Will someone call Greta , and I do mean call, to report tip???
Is there any pressure building in US Govt to draw some real international attention to this?
I will try CNN News tomorrow — Tipline or whatever.
Will someone try Fox — same thing.
30 minutes is not much to ask. Can report anonymously and give them this thread to read.
Please help. A little egg on the face may be the price, but so what.
3 AM here, too, Kristy. I better get to bed myself. Hopefully I can pull myself away from this computer and stop refreshing the screen.
Oh, and Shango needs to stay here. We don’t have time to run around to both forums, lol!
Read below ….. This is why I wanted someone who spoke dutch to translate …
In English:
Father Paul of of the ditch: No ljik, no zaak’Het Public Prosecution Service of Aruba accuse to the father of Yoran of of the ditch of it that he has frustrated the study into the involvement of its zoon at the disappearance of Natalee Holloway seriously in the NOVA retransmission of yesterday, Tuesday 28 June, father Paul of of the ditch has explained that he have explained its zoon and his friends only the procedure to that prevent they will explain panic chief public prosecutor Karin Janssen in NOVA to that those indications of father to continue then how the procedure sees there from. There is fixed to come stand that speak days already some after disappearance the father with the boys concerning data that there without lijk no matter zijn.”De will have parents according to Janssen a friend who by the police force had been interrogated, approached, at their at home to come tell what he at the police force had explained. The same evening has been communicated the contents of that declaration by the lawyer of Yoran to him. That on its gentle it is said rather annoying for the research, thus public prosecutor Janssen in NOVA.
Kristi,
I do not wish to argue with you either. I do not put sugar on my frosted flakes. I do not eat very much sugar at all. I do not sugar coat many things. If I had come here to match wits with anyone, I would want them to be armed as well!
IF the info on Scarborough Country is right. Joran and his two pals and father may very well be B-U-S-T-E-D in the end! Why do I say that? While they did not have the first couple of days conversations by cell phones, it seems they have all dialogues off of the hard drives, text messages and at some point it sounds like they can tap into cellphones or monitor them in some way! IT is not sounding as though they are innocent little boys.
The father is now catching himself up in his own little lies as well. I could not sleep well. Natalee is there and she is not sleeping as you or I or Joran may. Not that Joran has been sleeping…………………..but then again, a boy without conscience may sleep well.
The house of cards is about to fall with one big blow of the wind. Natalee is waiting to be found. North is where they should be looking depending on which way someone is looking at the map of Aruba. The rocky shadow or place of rocks with a shadow has a story to tell. Lorenzo may not be on tickle.com at present, but he has been there in the past. A hard heart dealt with Natalee that night. Bad intentions all around. Loud voices, unclear words. Unde terf, undi derf??????? The silver car with a loud exhaust or glass packs needs to be seen from the rear view mirror. Unde terf?? Unti terf?????
There is also a rumor that Natalee had a credit card. NO. Her mother told Greta what she had. NO credit card. The secrets are going to come undone. As for saying ignorant things about the father and the ex-boyfriend…………………….Not true. Do you not think that they have checked all flight records anyway. She was missing before they arrived. She had no recent boyfriend of consequence. Rumor mills. Geez.
There is a higher power whose eyes are watching Paulis Van Der Sloot. Those are not the only ones watching him. But God is watching his “lying eyes.” As for the Aruban “Barney Fife” Van Der Stratten. Arrivaderci. You need to move along. Your rumored underground buddies are not going to be pleased with this mess. OF course, the “keystone cops” routine was just that, was just that was it not? An act, a delay.
Good thing the little “Croes” girl was taken off as lead prosecutor. Ms Karen seems much more capable. She is displeased with Pappa’s behavior as it seems that Anita is as well. Pappa Van Der Sloot the gig is almost up!!!!!
He thinks his plan and his deception cannot be foiled. He thinks he is brilliant, but he cannot keep up with his own lies. HOw very interesting.
Does anyone here know if Steve Gregory Croes is a smoker? OR is it possible to get a straight answer without all the juvenile remarks or idiot comments that get made by those who might know? Does Pappa smoke?
Subdude,
I think there are a LOT of weird things that have happened since May 30th that aren’t coincidences…
thank you michoo for the link. maybe its better at other languages . Maybe dutch is a hard language …
It all seems hard. and they say english is the hardest language to learn 8)
Natalie’s parents are aware of these possibilities – that’s why they’re threatening to go to the press if something doesn’t break soon and that’s why Jug is saying to just give them Natalie and they will leave the island.
The LE has probably been telling them (or their attorney) to sit tight, that they are on the hunt but that this is culturally sensitive issue and if they push too hard too fast then Natalie could be killed if she is still alive. I’m wondering.
hey kristy….it is always best to read a translated document so you can get the information as a primary source. when you are lazy, and want it to be translated for you, you get second hand information. thus,a secondary source is just that…secondary!
post #4,656
pics of urine being transfered to another place…he is looking right at the camera on purpose and even turning his body to continue to stare at the camera as the vehicle drives away…what do you think he is thinking???
I am going to get away with it. NO one can touch me, I am beyond the law. I have done as I please for a long time. Urine is a good name for him. Maybe too
sanitary for the trench he has climbed out of.
Kristy,
Greta interviewed the reporter that did the VDS interview on NOVA, he told there some of what is in what you posted.
its 320 am … im lazy … and sleepy .. doesnt that count
Elaina seems knowledgeble
I watched Greta. I just wanted to read it for myself. Just to see what else was said. He said it was about an hours long of interview.
It’s a chess game. Is she kidnapped and murdered or kidnapped only? If she was alive has she been killed? Have the Holloways held back b/c they’re afraid that she’ll be killed if they push too hard? Why is Anita VDS saying that Natalie will turn up in a few days????????
ElonMom: You in Bama?
No, but in the South subdude.
hmmmmmmmm, not so sure about that, Kristy.
ElonMom: Comment about NH parents being aware and careful not to say? Do you know for a fact or speculating?
Are you asking b/c of geographical interest or because you’re wondering how I’m deriving my theories?
You can tell that they are choosing their words very carefully.
ElonMom: Theories.
about what watcher ?
Kristy: is that your name on the discussion forum? I will PM you.
Not a verifiable fact. But think about it – CountryMoon who IS from Bama said to look for the clues and that there were MANY people on the beach that nite. Everyone has felt from the getgo that NH’s family was holding back, but why? Now they’re threatening to go the press (Larry King show) and Jug said that if they would just give them NH then theywould leave the island and the LE could do whatever they wanted with the boys.
I have got to get some shuteye. Good night . . No really . . .REALLY.
I am all over CNN tomorrow. Any help will be appreciated.
so elaina…you are asking if these people smoke because of your previous posts about smelling smoke…the bo is probably the father as much as he sweats
night subdude. I REALLY need to go, too. :/
ElonMom:
Where did Jug say this? I agree with your theory. Just want to know sources
Good night all. you’re doing great work by keeping the pressure on -the media and the LE pay attention to bloggers these days.
Subdude, he said it on the LK show.
gnite subdude thanks for all of your help
Tonite, he and Mom were on threatening to go to the press.
i think they need to go to the press….find out why that polis chief is resigning when there is an ongoing investigation at hand
not to mention the biggest news that has come from Aruba in a long time….don’t make sense to me
yup same name.
Night yall
nite kristy…take care
When Fox interviewed someone from Aruba (a spokesman for the investigation) he siad that the police chief’s contract ends on July 15th and is not being renewed. When asked by Greta on fox if this was due to the botched handling of NH’s disappearance, the editor of Dairios newspaper said that “They have had their differences all along.”
I think the family will give the LE a little time to respond to their threat.
what a coinky dink…..that his contract is up….hmmmm
So did the chief resign or was he fired by not having his contract renewed?
all that and the fact that he is Jorna Vandersloot’s god-father….hmmmm
Thank you, Subdude, for understanding the yelling. You seem like a very kind and open person. I believe 100% that you are here without an agenda.
I hope I didn’t seem too aggressive about my posts (my ‘research’, in quotes, since it was all based upon what others posted elsewhere). I may not have personal knowledge of the stories or rumors I posted, as they were not MY stories or rumors, but I DO believe, with all of my heart and intellect, that these are avenues that cannot be disregarded – unless we are willing to accept a scapegoat (which is, at present , apparently the BEST CASE SCENARIO?!) as the unlikely (and reportedly tongue-mutilating and weeping) sole mastermind.
I am no expert. But I have studied psychology, criminology, and law, – and I do not recall “CRYING” as any sort of normal characteristic of a sociopath. I have studied socio/psychopaths. I do not profess to be an expert, AT ALL. But I was very thrown off of the “Joran is a psycho” theory when it was reported that he was crying in his cell.
I mean, for comparison’s sake, read some of the earlier posts about the supposed “Lorenzo.” THAT is a dude that wouldn’t be crying in his cell. Anyway…
I believe in kindness. I am only trying to find new possibilities here.
I am trying to ignore the trolls. I could post my degrees and schools and OTHER BULLSHIT, but whatever. I think that’s rude. I really only want to interact with people who are here to brainstorm and/or share information. Not throw challenges.
Maybe I should really “go G’Night now.”
My prayers are with Natalee, and her family, and her friends, my friends here trying to find answers, and all of the innocent and beautiful people of Aruba.
i don’t know the answer to that on elon….but i think it kind of sounds like they are one in the same…not renewing the contract =termination…but that is just an opinion.
At the same time, a new prosecutor is assigned. Not necessarily bad sign with the prosecutor. But are they removing the chief because they don’t like the way he’s handled things, he’s corrupt, etc. OR are they getting rid of him to cover up?
Oh my goodness – no offense to anyone else still awake!
I think we are stuck in our Western way of thinking. We look to the light to uncover the truth. Shango is pleading with us to look to the darkness. We find the darkness by asking questions? I think the natives understand what has happened, but they have been slaves to the ruling classes and they are not free to answer what has not been asked of them. Not slaves the way us Americans think of slavery. A more subtle kind of slavery. Are they looking to us to break down that which binds them? Would they lead us to the answers if we knew what to ask them? Would Johnny (not sure of his name), the security guard tell us?
Just rambling here.
@Kristy
Give me the original text and I will translate it!
Or is this a babbelfish translation of the PVDS interview in Holland?
There wasn’t much said there, except that Joran’s parents think their son is 200% innocent.
PVDS stated, he just explained to Joran and the Kalpoes, how the judicial system functions and that they are not to worry themselves or to panic
Also PVDS and is wife were convinced Natalee is still alive and hope for her to return shortly as to put an end to all the speculations.
Bingo, Sooz. New Girl, love your posts. You’re a hard worker. Gotta go – my household stirs early and I’ll be a zombie already. Good nite.
Is there anyone that speaks dutch or the native Aruban language that might know if unde doif or duif means anything besides dream garble? duif??? duif????shiny metal.
Shiny. Shiny yellow. duif????Duif??? What the heck, maybe I am still dreaming. Narrow passage, shiny yellow???Duif????
Anyone????prayer bells????shiny yellow???duif????shiny, yellow,duif>>>prayer bells? Geez. It is time to go to bed. May tomorrow locate Natalee.
g’nite new girl….see ya tomorrow…or later as it is already tomorrow…lol
Elon…i honestly fee that it is the later that you mentioned….i think it just goes hand in hand with the way this whole case has been handled….jmho
click on this link then select dutch to english and translate yourself!
http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html
this was posted earlier….hope it helps:o)
Shango said,”whispered by olorum to an earthbound son”.
Olorum or Olorun had a son sent to earth and one thing he brought with him was calabash. Calabash is a fruit that grows in Aruba. There is an area called Calabas which on on the North Western part of the island about 5 minutes away from a golf course called Tierra del Sol. Shango in earlier post metioned forbidden fruit. This is as far as I have gotten but I thought it was interesting.
very interesting….brodie wtg!!!
think the natives understand what has happened, but they have been slaves to the ruling classes and they are not free to answer what has not been asked of them. Not slaves the way us Americans think of slavery.
———————————-
since most of the islanders employment stems from the tourist industry, i doubt very much that they want this case not to be solved. it is a dependency economy….like most of the carib.
Shango said,”whispered by olorum to an earthbound son”.
Olorum or Olorun had a son sent to earth and one thing he brought with him was calabash. Calabash is a fruit that grows in Aruba. There is an area called Calabas which on on the North Western part of the island about 5 minutes away from a golf course called Tierra del Sol. Shango in earlier post metioned forbidden fruit. This is as far as I have gotten but I thought it was interesting
______________________________________________________
good someone who knows the island! good thinking. although, watch out for the shango/ i cannot figure out if he is dutch or native from either ABC?
Thanks southernbelle73f, I’m going to keep on working on it.
the other day someone mentioned a handicap of 12….i was thinking it was shango…but tonight shango said that it was simian….either way it is odd that you posted this and then in the middle of it you throw in the fact that there is a golf course there too…wow….he (shango) also kept saying something about unlocking the door to Eden…the in enden there was the partaking of the “forbidden fruit”…..just wow’d!
@Elaina
Duif = Pigeon!
ty flying dutchman….i tried to translate it but i couldn’t the site that i copied and pasted could not translate the word.
If you have anthing Dutch to translate, just post it and I’ll translate it!
how nice of you….thanks so much flying
ok y’all i am gonna call it a night….ty for all of your insight into the things that Shango said….that code stuff sometimes has me boggled…:o)
I pray that Natalee will be found soon so that she can be united with her mother and they can get back here (alabama)!
Thanks so much southernbelle, ElonMom, and all of the other wonderful people here. Good night, and best wishes. My prayers tonight are with the prayerful, the kind-hearted, the humble , the loving, the strong, the the loyal, the hopeful, and the innocent.
Good night.
@observer: damn it must suck to be you. you talk bullshit on every page i visit. I pray for your soul.
since most of the islanders employment stems from the tourist industry,
===================================
I was talking more about corruption. The whole thing about how JDVS and/or the brothers being perfectly willing to frame the two security guards as the scapegoats for Natalee’s disappearance is something that I’ve been thinking about, especially after watching yesterday’s interview. Greta asked Johnny (calling him that, but not sure if that was really his name) if JVDS, his father, the brothers, or the Police Chief apologized for causing them to be locked up. He said only one of the brothers apologized. No one else. If something like that happened up here there would be holy hell to pay. Jesse Jackson would have been on that Police Chief in a NY minute. But from what we’ve heard, it was just a blip in the minds of those in charge there. So, I’m wondering if this is how the islanders are treated? Maybe they have more information if they were asked.
Here’s an idea I got from the translation I just did.
I don’t know if the word duif was mentioned in Shango’s messages, but if so:
Shango tells us he has to feed the messengers. It’s common knowledge, that Pigeons used to be messenger-birds.
I understood there’s a whole colony of pigeons on Aruba near a mangrove area?
Maybe the Texan seearchteam should search there?
Actually it was from Elaina’s post….i think that she is kind of like a psychic….i am not sure but she gets these visions (feelings-not sure which) but she had a dream about Natalee and that word was mentioned….there was a nother word too…i will look back and post here posting for you…maybe you can figure out more since you are familiar with the area…thanks for the info:o)
Elaina Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 3:12 am
Kristi,
I do not wish to argue with you either. I do not put sugar on my frosted flakes. I do not eat very much sugar at all. I do not sugar coat many things. If I had come here to match wits with anyone, I would want them to be armed as well!
IF the info on Scarborough Country is right. Joran and his two pals and father may very well be B-U-S-T-E-D in the end! Why do I say that? While they did not have the first couple of days conversations by cell phones, it seems they have all dialogues off of the hard drives, text messages and at some point it sounds like they can tap into cellphones or monitor them in some way! IT is not sounding as though they are innocent little boys.
The father is now catching himself up in his own little lies as well. I could not sleep well. Natalee is there and she is not sleeping as you or I or Joran may. Not that Joran has been sleeping…………………..but then again, a boy without conscience may sleep well.
The house of cards is about to fall with one big blow of the wind. Natalee is waiting to be found. North is where they should be looking depending on which way someone is looking at the map of Aruba. The rocky shadow or place of rocks with a shadow has a story to tell. Lorenzo may not be on tickle.com at present, but he has been there in the past. A hard heart dealt with Natalee that night. Bad intentions all around. Loud voices, unclear words. Unde terf, undi derf??????? The silver car with a loud exhaust or glass packs needs to be seen from the rear view mirror. Unde terf?? Unti terf?????
There is also a rumor that Natalee had a credit card. NO. Her mother told Greta what she had. NO credit card. The secrets are going to come undone. As for saying ignorant things about the father and the ex-boyfriend…………………….Not true. Do you not think that they have checked all flight records anyway. She was missing before they arrived. She had no recent boyfriend of consequence. Rumor mills. Geez.
There is a higher power whose eyes are watching Paulis Van Der Sloot. Those are not the only ones watching him. But God is watching his “lying eyes.” As for the Aruban “Barney Fife” Van Der Stratten. Arrivaderci. You need to move along. Your rumored underground buddies are not going to be pleased with this mess. OF course, the “keystone cops” routine was just that, was just that was it not? An act, a delay.
Good thing the little “Croes” girl was taken off as lead prosecutor. Ms Karen seems much more capable. She is displeased with Pappa’s behavior as it seems that Anita is as well. Pappa Van Der Sloot the gig is almost up!!!!!
He thinks his plan and his deception cannot be foiled. He thinks he is brilliant, but he cannot keep up with his own lies. HOw very interesting.
Does anyone here know if Steve Gregory Croes is a smoker? OR is it possible to get a straight answer without all the juvenile remarks or idiot comments that get made by those who might know? Does Pappa smoke?
unde…or undi duif….she spelled it derf…then she spelled it duif when she was wanting a translation of that specific word…thanks again-flying
Beth Holloway… a fitting histrionic mom for a narcissistic daughter….. “I want to take her home….. I won’t leave Aruba! I don’t know why the media has so much interest in me???”
Give me a break…. you will be leaving Aruba… unless you plan to turn the C&C club she was at into a shrine and stake out a place where you can sell tickets! “Here’s where she jumped into a car with 2 strangers…” “And yes, here’s the bronze statue of her sucking face with Van Der Slut.”
There still is no evidence. Zip. Perhaps the perfect crime. Yet, America has paid more attention to this blonde’s disappearance than what has occured over the past 2 years in Iraq, Sudan, Darfur, or Sri Lanka, combined. I beg you to spend some time attempting to oust the jackass we have in the Whitehouse who is spending $200,000,000 a day in Iraq. How’s your quality of life been lately? How are your kid’s schools? I can only conclude that the people getting hypocritically sentimental about NH are the H.S. grad crowd; the reality TV. crowd, the American Idol crowd- in other words, the lower echelons of the Darwinian chain that corporate America makes a fortune manipulating and lying to.;.. Fox News- case in point… everybody was ready to give Greta a Pulitzer…. now things have changed. Everyone loved Bush, now he’s moronically saying, “Just Believe Me… (Let’s) “Just keep doing it.” the US has killed 40 times the number of people that dies on 9/11. But, then we GOT to worry about this blonde and her mom…. it’s so vital to express overwhelming compassion for her- perhaps it keeps us from having to confront more important matters at home, and abroad. matters we’re to chicken shit to investigate and find the truth about.
Enough NH already!
Oh horsecrap, give it up, Southern Bell. How the HELL can you say an INVISIBLE MAN CAN SEE ANYTHING???”
Bible bonkers are a fine breed, indeed. But then, Americans used to think that slavery was
important for the U.S. economy. Now some think there’s a God that “watches lying eyes.” Same horsecrap of the worst sort.
I really fail to understand al the geo/politick bashing.
The national criticisms have nothing to do with this event, or the people here
They are specious, irrelevant BS
Don’t you get it? It is a civil/criminal matter.
Gitmo, Iraq, Bush, and the like have nothing to do with it.
daaaaaaaaa… really?
com’on people GET A BREAK! Everyday someone is killed in New York. Don’t make this bigger than it is. Breathe in, breathe out and see it in the right dimensions.
To add insult to injury Anita Van Der Sloot telling the reporter in her interview that she believes that Natalee will be found very soon and this will all be put to rest. And then to hear the prosecuter say the Paul Van Der Sloot stalled the investigation. Him and his son should be shot dead in the street.
I dont see the problem with the fact PvdS is working for the Aruban Court. In the interview on NoVa he told the interviewer that he told his boss he will be “on vacation”as long as his son is a suspect in this case. He has not been to office since that time. I understand the situation is strange but i think there were simular situations in de US as well. This is just coincidence. The father of the suspect works at the court. Also the population of Aruba is like a small town, everybody knows eachother so conflics of interest would always be the case on Aruba.
S…so you are tired of hearing about NH? The obvious solution is GET OFF THIS BOARD!!! Duh…
that’s confused me also, izzy, that the NH ‘bashers’ are in here…..??? It’s a simple solution to me.
Anyway, just heard that caren, p.a. said pvds admitted to coaching the boys. “If there is no body, there is nothing” (or something on that order). Apparently, this was at the beginning of the investigation when they “all” got together and told the same story. I still say there’s a coincidence that this happened while mom vds was away. I think it was planned and calculated and NH was the target. I think pvds probably had his way with NH too, although the thought sickens me. Now the police chief is resigning….
Lori-”Now the police chief is resigning”
where is this from?
Izzy, I dont think any of us is a Natalee-basher. Who wouldnt want a missing girl to be found healthy and well?
I think its more a bashing of the media who is almost hysterically reacting on this all. Especially when you compare it with the attention to other cases of missing persons.
Father Paul van der sloot : No body, no case!
Het Public Prosecution Service of Aruba accuse to the father of Yoran van der sloot of it that he has frustrated the study
into the involvement of its son at the disappearance of Natalee Holloway seriously in the NOVA retransmission of yesterday.
Tuesday 28 June, father Paul van der sloot has explained that he have explained its son and his friends only the procedure
to that prevent they will explain panic chief public prosecutor Karin Janssen in NOVA to that those indications of father to
continue then how the procedure sees there from.
There is fixed to come stand that speak days already some after disappearance the father with the boys concerning data that
there without a body there is no case.
a suspect was directed to Paul van der sloots home to come tell what he at the police force had explained.
The same evening has been communicated the contents of that declaration by the lawyer of Yoran to him.
That on its gentle it is said rather annoying for the research, thus public prosecutor Janssen in NOVA.
sorry my english isn’t all that
Naysayers and slammers — apparently, for some reason, this board and speculation bothers you. Fine. Go about your business. You are not dissuading or convincing anyone. The louder one must talk to be heard, the more uncertain he is of his words.
What is Plain View? Again, it sounds like another reference to Arikok — remember the two paths, one gold, one not, and now the plain view, although it’s an obvious reference to the fact that she is above ground, still on Aruba, IMO.
found it interesting on gretas show when she interviewed the businessman who accompanied beth and teh police to the VDS home that first night….he told the police that she was drinking and doing drugs, that she was dancing provactatively with him…. and that she and him had actually gambled together and that he had helped her win some back money she had lost…..this totally contradicts what natalees pals were saying…and so brazen that he is actually admitting to gambling when he is underage….he tells the police he just wanted to drop her home cuz she was acting so crazy….so they took her to HI where she stumbled out of the car…NOW he says he left her at beach…so makes me wonder how he is going to adjust his other elements of the story….
The chief stepping down is not enough in my opinion..he should be probed for obstruction of justice!!! He cant be allowed to just walk away
good morning armchair detectives…
i see steve croes accepted some cash to be on nancy grace last night. she didn’t rip him apart like i thought she would. smart on her part, otherwise she wouldn’t have gotten any info from him.
i was wondering about something he said about the boys not knowing him, and they even told the polis this. steve goes in to tell what he heard, he gets held for how many days? and he’s innocent. long story short, i just don’t understand how they can pull the dad in for less than a week and let him go. what’s the difference? if it’s suspected you know something, shouldn’t he have had to stay in longer?
for those who are pursuing the mafia sex slave smuggling scenario…..i think it is futile….i think we are all grasping at straws there..liek someone on here said yesterday..i think our first hunches on thisscase…were probably more likely what happened….like Mike Fuhrman said…the failure to collect that forensic information in lieu of not fnding a body was not a detective 101 failure it was a patrolman type skill ….so this tells you what the arubans skill level is on investigative levels…combine that with pals of VDS in high places manipulating the investigative process…and its easy to see what has happened….why should we giev Joran the benefit of teh doubt? what credibllity has he shown so far? NONE
Is everyone going to take 10 minutes out of their busy American days today to write a letter to the Dutch Ambassador of the US????
I really hope so!!!!!!!!!!!!
ptkbk…armchair detectives..u crack me up!
Second time here, but I have to jump in and add my two cents worth.
I’m beginning to think that the only way justice will be served in this case is if someone puts a bullet in JVDS skull…sorry, but I feel that the victims family has every right to see justice carried out if legal means fail. I’m not being hateful, I’m not being sensationalistic. If something like that happened the Arubans would be forced to recognize that it is always in their best interest to do everything possible to solve a case like this, reagrdless of who the suspect’s daddy is.
The AP news yesterday said a woman told investigators that Joran had a history of ‘taking advantage of girls’. And that DJ guy said he overheard one of the Kalpoes telling their lawyer or somebody that “I never should have left that girl with Joran”. I’m beginning to think that maybe it was an accident that she died (and I just can’t see how this poor girl can possibly be alive still, anywhere). My personal theory: I think Joran had the Kalpoes drop them off at the beach (the one when they changed their story), and that Joran wanted to make Natalee his latest conquest. Well, whatever Joran gave Natalee didn’t mix well with the alcohol and she OD’ed. He panicked, got daddy and maybe the Kalpoes to get rid of her body and he went to ace his exams. The second thing I would like to say is, I know Aruba is getting a bad rap and that you folks don’t deserve this kind of negative publicity. But I will say this: if there are no convictions handed down on this, THAT will hurt you a
lot more than Natalee’s death. A murder is one thing… murders happen anywhere…but if the typical American thinks that he isn’t safe in Aruba AND the authorities don’t care about him…eeesh. That really will hurt you guys. We Americans are big on justice; why else would we still be seeking revenge for 9/11? I think the best thing you all can do is start to put pressure on the authorities to get this going and make some things happen. There are all these allegations of cover-ups and how much influence daddy VDS has, but if the whole island is up in arms and upset, no amount of cover-up will work. And something HAS to happen for the sake of the Holloways, and soon. I feel so sorry for them. It is getting harder and harder to find any silver lining in this…all I can come up with is this might encourage these kids that go out anywhere, not just out of country, to be more careful. Keep praying for the Holloways, and keep up the good work here.
Morning everyone. I had a dream last night, I am guessing it is just a result of all the involvment here and the desire to see Natalee alive on the news. All the same: in my dream, I saw:
“Natalee, she was wearing what looked like khaki pants and a tee shirt, her hair was diry and tangled. She looked like he had either bruises or dirt smears on her face and what seems to be her eyeliner from crying. I saw a small room with no windows, a single light hanging out of her reach and what looked like one of those camping eggcrate matress things. She was sitting on the floor, not crying, not moving, just sitting there staring at a door with a hole cut in it, almost like a the kind one sees in movies of a isolation room in order to pass food through.”
I pray to God there is a hint of reality to this, only the part that she is alive. I rarely remember my dreams but this one stands out and the details are vivid to me. Now I must prepare to go to work. God bless Natalee, Beth, Jug, and everyone else concerned for Natalee. God have mercy on those involved with her disappearence.
Kristin-In-SC
Are you a psychic?….not being rude, just wondering…..
lisa-i feel like that is what i have become. don’t you all?
in the very beginning, i didn’t think they would find her alive. then i found this board, and the idea of the human trafficking gave me hope. and i could really see that happening. the boys not being the brains but the carriers or suppliers i guess. then when they started letting people go, and i saw the gold mine caves, i gave her up for dead. but i’m on the up side of the rollercoaster, and feel maybe she is still alive. when bht was talking last night to anderson cooper, she said the word kidnapped with such force, i suppose that is where this hope is coming from. we’ll see.
Kristin, are you the same person who spoke with me, along with Kris, via AIM? Regardless, did you see the link to the psychic forum I posted the other day? You may want to share your dream with them and see if they can glean anything from it. Like you, I’m all about exploring any and every avenue and pray NH will be found alive.
Dutch authorities need to do an investigation into teh chief of police there..natalees family should put pressure on them for this..it may be her only hope…he knows something and was trying to cover it up…i cnat believe it has taken this long to deduce and pinpoint this???
Dan in Tx thanks for your view. i believe it was an accidental death but jorans refusal to tell us this is reflecting on aruba. the island does not deserve this. People are blaming the mafia/aliens/kidnappers for her dissappearance. I have this to say to Joran. fess up and become a man for if not you life will not be worth anything after.
lisa-i don’t think it’s taking them this long to find stuff, it’s just they have an ‘i don’t feel like it today’ attitude about investigating. that’s just my opinion, but that’s what i am seeing. unless they have some super huge evidence and actual proven theories that we don’t know about.
Kristin-In-SC thanks for your positive dream of being alive it gives us hope even though the chances of her being alive are unlikly as time goes by
Yes, I will be taking ten minutes out of my day to write a letter to the Dutch Ambassador.
This NH case is interesting because we can all relate to being in a foreign country and being taken advantage of because we don’t understand the customs or laws or evil disquised in a 17 year old. That’s why the case is staying in the public eye.
Hey Monkeys, I like it here but Riehlworld loads faster, anyone notice that
Some of the most telling things Shango said I thought are below, huge discussion going on at Riehl world about Shango last day or so…
“The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum”
“Time is the enemy of the cowboys”
“The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation”
Anna, pk, Kristin–Good Morning!!
Anna, I looked for you the other day on AIM when the board went down. I needed contact to the outside world–sadly I found none.
Anything new?
Morning Big Pappy–so what is your take on what Shango said??
To o’ the Mornin’ all!
Lisabo…-I just read your post of about 30 min. ago. The businessman with the Twittys – who said this to the Twittys? “he told the police that she was drinking and doing drugs, that she was dancing provactatively with him”
Morning Trish–who said that? Doesn’t fit with what the kids that were there have said..Who is this businessman?
I think Elaina has some brillant ideas on how to psyche these suspects into a confession. I think the Twitty family definitely has a family member that reads these posts since she mentioned us in her letter seeking a petition to the Dutch Ambassador. I hope she read Elaina’s ideas about the driver’s license and using some one that looks like Natalie to haunt them in prison.
I agree, Tanya. If Joran gets away with whatever his involvement was, then who knows what he will try to get away with next? As for his father- I don’t care if he is a parent, he is in my opinion the biggest hypocritical slimeball on earth: a judge-in-training that has no respect for the law! He should have been a defense attorney with that attitude.
I hope his involvement, even if he is never implicated in this- ruins his career. It seems to me the only person in that family worth a damn is Anita- her only crime is being delusional about her son (What mother isn’t I guess). I hope the Holloways get whatever closure and comfort they can regardless of how this pans out. I’m afraid I can’t believe Natalee is alive: that would truly be a miracle, and I don’t believe in miracles. If she is alive, then I hope she has the chance to escape her captors and come home as soon as possible though. Keep praying, folks…its about all we can do.
Hey Friends:
Anything new. Saw Nancy Grace last night. Pretty good interview with Beth.
I meant Top o’ the Mornin’ – damn leprechauns
Dan – believe in miracles!
The businessman is an owner of a cell phone company that the Twitty’s were investigating when they landed in Aruba. His last name is Croes, but I don’t know if he is related to the DJ. He is basically repeating the first BS storyline that we all heard that Joran gave. Interestingly, Joran made up this lie before it was public news that Natalie was offiically missing. There had been no news paper turnover yet as I understand it. Therefore, Joran has a reason to make up a lie before anyone even asked him.
i don’t think the kids were being completely honest in regards to the amount of drinking and sexy dancing. but we would be very naive to think it wasn’t going on. that would really explain why no one actually saw anything. you know?
hey monkeys
Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Twitty liasion?
Dan–While I agree that Mom VDS seems clueless, I can’t help but think she knows more than she is letting on to. As far as miracles go, I believe remeber Elizabeth Smart? Also, I am still holding on to hope of the human traffic idea, I remember when this started hearing about Amy Bradley who disappeared being seen by a memeber of the military in a bar somewhere–he never said anything because he was in a place where he should not have been and was afraid of getting into trouble. In that case I would think that commanding officers could overlook that if he was able to save someone’s life… *sigh** but that’s just me.
mickie–
Here is the email that goes to Jamie Holloway…
all4natalee@yahoo.com
If the Aruban legal system let’s this go unsolved and these guy’s walk itn will send a clear message to the drug lord’s and other criminal’s that American’s open season, there will be no FBI or big media coverage on American victim’s after this. Enter Aruba at your own risk American you may not ever be seen again.
Rehearsed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All the actors are in place but they have to do something about their lines ……..
While the Cat is Away ( Anita ) The Rats Will Play ……………
Kris,
Thanks. I’m offering to pay for the psychic of their choice. I know there are reputable ones that have worked with the police solving missing person cases such as the reknown Sylvia Brown. I know alot of people scoff, but hey, it’s about time we try every avenue. Of course, maybe they’ve already tried this. I don’t know.
pktbk, don’t you mean desktop detectives???
Kris: You sent the AIM? She told me, but teenagers take over the computer when their friends with licenses aren’t around. Was gone all day/night yesterday because of that. Nothing new, although I think it’s really weird that Ruben Trapenburg’s pic is at that rave site at the arubadag after-party. Maybe reading too much into it. Newgirl has all same info as me about Lorenzo — but I still wonder if “follow the music” isn’t a reference to the party station in Aruba. They’re all on tickle, too, including another Lorenzo who is a DJ. They host many after-parties, including the Havana Soul Beach after party.
Gotta go to work. Will look here tonight for you guys.
mickie–I think that you are wonderful!!! A gesture like that would mean the world to the family..
Let us know how it goes and God bless you!!
95 % Of The Drugs That Pass Thru Aruba Is Going To Amsterdam for distribution in Europe not The USA
They didn’t find her?? hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
They will never do because she finished a dessert for Litlle Sharky.
And he told me he was sick for 2 weeks after eating her , he claims she was rotten and she stinks like sperm of an young dutch boy!!!!
Na na na na na………………….. you can’t cathch them na na na na na……….
Good morning my friends! Wow what a night of news. I saw Nancy Grace and I saw Greta.
Kat- I saw that guy (Cell Phone Store Owner) who said that Nat was drunk and taking drugs. I think that is what Joran told him. It seemed to be that he talked to Joran, right?
Did you guys hear what Mark Furman had to say? (besides trying to promote the book he wrote about Terri Shaivo)?
MickieMouse – “The businessman is an owner of a cell phone company that the Twitty’s were investigating when they landed in Aruba. His last name is Croes,” Is that the businessman that was being interviewed last night?
Bobup aren’t there a lot of crimes unsolved in the U.S? Does that mean it’s open season there already?
Have a good day Anna–Talk to you later.
Good morning, everyone! anyone get any sleep??
Did they find her????
That’s Not Funny Bunny!!!
Did they find her????
Is the businessman the one who did not have an accent? Looked kind of military? I only caught glimpses.
uma-aaah! yes…i got my locations wrong.
Jake,
Morning!!! What did he have to say–I didn’t see anything.
The case is not about anything simple. Beth said it was a kidnapping. Everyone knows how she has been careful with her words.
The last name Croes in Aruba is really common, right? Or are they all related?
Did they find her????
Did they find her????
Did they find her????
Jake – that last name is common there.
Are you going to lunch yet?
Kris, alot of where we go lies in the Arubans hands, there is a huge concern for the tourism and money flowing through the island, and we are running out of time.
That’s what I took from it.
The last is Croes is very common, and no they’re not all related.
Did they find her????
Did they find her????
Did they find her????
Apparently Daddy VDS said he was “educating” the boys on the Aruban laws. He admitted to talking to them after Natalee was missing!! He is fraud!
Thanks Big Pappy–
Watcher–when did Beth say it was a kidnapping–just curious, I am still leaning towards that idea..
What worries me is that the boys may be released on Monday!! I really hope not–but if they are I would say let Jug meet them outside the jail walls
Trisher-LOL. Not yet, but I need to run some errands so I will be having an early lunch!!
Yes, Trisher, that is the businessman that was interviewed last night.
funnybunny, I hope the police or FBI track you down because anyone that would leave a post like you did sounds like you are in on the crime.
Jake, where di dyou here that, I must have missed it. Couldn’t watch the news last night.
The guy on greta last night was very interesting, seemed like Joran was covering up and covering up slipping something in NH’s drink by based on the drug comment.
I doubt if Beth would consider a psychic. I believe, from what I have seen with all the prayer going on, that they believe that this is a war going on between the forces of evil, and those of the Lord God.
After this I’ll take my vacations in Harlem ………..
Have a better chance of making it home from there then Aruba
Stef: Deputy Dawg could have solved this one, are you totally blind to the cover up? U.S. law would have been on these guy’s like a bad rash the first day.
Kris, I sent the email off that you gave me and the letter to the Dutch Ambassador.
Caren Janssen broke her silence! She finally gave an interview! Did you guys hear when she said that PVDS worked in the Prosecutors office and in the courts and that everyone knows him!!!
Kris,
she has said it all along. And said it again last night on tv.
Jake—What, errands—Say it isn’t so
Who will keep me updated with my news, who will have cocktails with me??
The pain, the pain LOL
Oh thanks watcher–Unfortunately I don’t see much of the news at night. I go with the whole mother’s intuition–and if that is what she feels, then I pray she is right with this. Like I said, that’s what I feel.
TheGreatPretender – hey – I live in Harlem
Did someone say…….cocktails????
Mornin’, friends!
Bobup, I wasn’t there when whatever happened happened, but I have yet to see evidence of a crime. Don’t misunderstand me I am not defending anybody, but it is so confusing all this “reporting” without any information.
Jake, I heard the Dutch interviewer say that PVDS stated as much in his interview to Dutch TV.
mickie,
Let me know how it goes. Also, where are you sending letters to the Dutch Ambassador??
Morning mom,
I am starting off this moring with mimosas–interested?
Hey Mom – drinking breakfast? lol
now i know i need a break. i thought our receptionist just said deepak. yikes! i think i need a change.
Kris-LOL LOL
MOM-Good Morning!!!! To early for cocktails! Let’s wait like 15 minutes!!!
Pktbk – hahaha – maybe he said “de pack age just arrived.”
Sure Kris! Mimosa? What the heck is that? Does it have a fuzzy, pink flower for a garnish?
**hangs head in shame, for not going outside her Bud Light World**
Stef: How about the FACT that these 3 keep changing their lie’s. Hmmmm
When in Aruba Don’t Forget To Scuba …………….
You May Find A Treasure That Once Was Named NATALEE
pktbk-Maybe your receptionist is on this blog with us!! LOL.
Jake, i don’t think anyone can honestly believe that Senior Sloot and his Son have not received special treatment in this case. Senior Sloot knows everyone and does seem well liked. Have you heard whether or not the monkey is one of the upcoming arrests? I heard the monkeys last name is Croes.
MOM–champagne and orange juice, if you want a pink flower–I’m pretty sure that I can pick one from my garden
Trisher–LOL
I can’t drink quite this early, Trisher. Gotta finish my breakfast bar first. LOL
Hello, pk and Jake! Anyone seen Country Moon this morning?
MOM-You’ve never had a mimosa?(orange juice w/champagne).
Bobup, you are right they are lying, there’s something fishy going on there, but I mean hard evidence, a piece of clothing, whatever….. It would make it all a little clearer I would think, something material to go on.
Jake and others: Croes is to Aruba what Smith is to the U.S, more or less.
Stef:
To adlib to Bobup’s question….
What about Joran’s statement, “Something bad happened to Natalee”….
Hmmmmm….
crs-I heard the monkey is taking notes! He signed a book deal earlier this week! It is scheduled to be released early Sept.! They interviewed him last night and said that with his first check he’s going to take all us monkeys out for some drinks!!!
Orange juice w/ champagne??? OMG!! That’s it!!! I’m game!!!
**adds champagne to her shopping list**
Trisher
Take The A Train
Mom – I believe that statment came from one of the Kalpoooooooooos .
Did no one else pick up on the whole “phone call” discussion with Charles Croes? He continually mentioned a “phone call” that Beth had come to him inquiring of. There was a phone call made from a cell phone, and she wanted to know if it was one of “his” cell phones, being that he owns the rental cell phone company. Apparently it was, because he REPEATEDLY mentioned them listening to a phone call.
There is more to this guy than meets the eye. He seems very much American to me. Perhaps this is the “DEA agent” who was supposedly already on the island? Perhaps his rental cell company is a part of that? Is it also possible then, that they DID listen to some “phone call” because due to the reason for his business, there might BE recordings of all phone calls?
I know this probably sounds over-the-top, and it may be. But, am I the only one who caught the “phone call” talk?
MOM – I think that comment was based on the question “Joran, what do you think happened”, and Joran replied “Well, probably something bad” – i would not read too much into that, I think if that was truly a smoking gun this case would be over.
TheGreatPretender – you’re a funny one. Actually I live near Harlem – Avenue that is.
Have you noticed that after that one day, nobody mentioned this alleged confession again. Where did it come from anyway, rumors?????
Watcher – I know what you are saying about Beth not considering a psychic and you are probably right, but on the other hand she might be willing to do anything at this point.
Everyone – I know it will be hard to do, but lets try to pray for bunny not funny as this person is obviously very sick (not being funny) and/or possessed.
jake, you crack me up, ever had a bellini?
Kris, I sent the letter to the Dutch Ambassador in Washington, D.C. to the address given in the message from the Holloway/Twitty family from yesterday. It’s an article or two down from this message to which we are leaving are a reply.
I heard that Croes, the DJ, was fired. Why? Because he’s an idiot with mental problems or is it because his boss believes he used a boat without his permission or knowledge?
You’re not supposed to drink until the sun is over the yardarms, remember
Again, I have to say to the people of Aruba: considering the mistakes made in the investigation, the cozy relationship all the lawyers on that island have, and the fact that there is no body to even base a murder investigation on- we in the U.S. can’t do much. YOU can. Get angry. Demand answers. Protest. Picket the police station and jail. You have more to lose from the outcome of this case than anyone else save the Holloways. If your tourism suffers- and if it hasn’t already I think it will depending on how this all pans out- what other way will you make your living?
Stef: 10 delay and corupt law took care of that.
crs & trisher:
Thank you for the correction….but which one of you is correct? lol
To Jake: or pktbk’s boss!
I was very touched by Beth’s determination to find Natalee. She said that what was keeping her strong was all the support she is getting from around the country! Especially from MB where she is from. Country Moon, you guys are all really doing a great job! God Bless you! Country, are you in any of the pictures w/ Nat that come up every day on the news? Just wondering.
Bobup, why are you so sure the law is corupt, again I agree the 10 day delay was not the smartest thing to do (actually very dumb), but hey we’re not on the inside. God knows what they are doing there!!
MOM – I think either way(Joran or Kalpoes), it was asked as a hypothetical question.
Ok Dan – I’ll boycott Aruba. But I wasn’t planning on going there anyway.
I just read way back up here – moosetracks Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
Heard Beth threatens to go to the press unless she is given more info.
I always thought she knew more than the news we hear.
Is that true?
pktbk-Can you imagine if your boss is b2bw! LOL LOL
Anyone hear updates on the Cowboys’ search?
Funny bunny and silly ASS billy are the same person! There are such sick cruel people in this world.
Go swimming in Florida so a SHARK can get you!
IGNORE THESE PEOPLE. Seems like everyday we get some new psycho on the board!
Mom – well, If crs if a Mom then we’re both correct.
wtisfit,
yes, I picked up about the phone call. I didn’t understand how they got his number and listened to the phone call. What phone call are they referring to? Does anyone know? How would they have access to that unless it was on Natalee’s cell phone. Maybe Joran called her since they met a day earlier. However, I heard that her cell phone did not work on the island. Maybe he called someone else whose cell phone did work to make contact with Natalee. Maybe he called the HI looking for her.
This is my guess.
I think she was burried at the Police Chiefs house.
Are there gardens there?
It is raining, but the sun is shining.
For those of you that want to go on a Caribbean vacation, I heard this morning on the radio that Punta Cana (Santo Domingo) is offering great packages (all inclusive) and children fly for free!!!
Stef: PVDS was only ask to give statement never interogated while in jail = his words
crs- I have 3 bellini’s!!!
I heard Beth say that she was kidnapped in an interview last week. She was very frustrated and she said I know my daughter was probably kidnapped, raped and murdered and she said of all of them she would hope that she was just kidnapped.
Jake, what gave me away??
could be worse. you could have a weasel for a boss and a white wolf for a supervisor!
Bobup thanks for the info. I never heard that, but then again I didn’t watch the news that much lately.
Indians 3 Cowboys 0
Bobup,
Not only PVDS, but I hear that the security guards were not interrogated to any great extent either. That is why Mickey Johns did not say to the police that he heard Deepok say that the father was involved in the lie. He said as much as he needed to get himself out of jail and that was all. No police officer bothered to inquire on the details of anthing else Mickey Johns heard.
People can say whatever they want but this case is a joke. Daddy Sloot is arrested and yet not interrogated. Joran is questioned but no pictures of his body are taken nor are his nails scraped nor are his clothes taken until weeks later. I mean I am really back to thinking that a pair of 4 yr. olds with pez dispensers would have done a better job. Very disturbing to me.
for reasons i can’t say right now (nothing illegal), i am changing my name. i used to be known by an acronym for a woman’s accessory.
I’m new here….I just read this on msnbc.msn.com :
ORANJESTAD, Aruba – The father of a Dutch teenager arrested in the disappearance of a young U.S. woman told his son and his two friends that “when there is no body you don’t have a case,” Aruba’s attorney general said Wednesday.
Paul van der Sloot, a judge in training in Aruba, gave his 17-year-old son Joran van der Sloot and two Surinamese brothers legal advice the day after 18-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared, District Attorney Caren Janssen told MSNBC in an interview.
“They spoke about the situation that when there is no body you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance,” Janssen said.
AND THEY LET THAT BASTARD GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m sick over this! Why would he say that if there was no foul play involved????
The article also says that the Croes guy from the boat lied about seeing the Kalpoe brothers and Joran drop off Natalee….that’s why he ws arrested and let go.
Dan–as Larry said the other day– It’s 5:00 somewhere!!!
Any word from any of our friends in Aruba??
Jake -Bellini is seriously my drink of choice right now, I just discovered it a few weeks back.
S,S,S,
I have to respond, though it is beneath me to do so in recognizing your less than intelligent comments.
S Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 5:02 am
Beth Holloway… a fitting histrionic mom for a narcissistic daughter….. “I want to take her home….. I won’t leave Aruba! I don’t know why the media has so much interest in me???”
I did not feel your comments worth pasting all of them. She will not leave without some closure and probably not without Natalee. Unless you are there with the proscecution and/or the polis or one of the persons (involved) you have no “REAL”
idea what they have, now do you?? Steve. Steven Gregory Croes, if that is you, hmmmm, maybe, maybe not, you may not be so smart. SGC thinks he is smart, he thinks he is very smart, yet probably not smart enough to realize they might be watching you as well. But after seeing him with Natalee, I do not get a vibe of intelligence on any level from this man. If anything, he could be a decoy of some kind.
After all, his life amition seems to be to dj for a party boat. What a goal.
Moving on, alot of people respond with how Natalee was involved with Joran. Last time I checked, talking with someone and being friendly and even flirting is not indicative that you want to run off with someone and have sex. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN ANY PHYSICAL INTIMATE CONTACT BETWEEN NATALEE AND URINE(Jorin) are, drum roll please,…………………..his two cohorts………….Dpak and Satish. Yep, I am all over that one. NO further need to convince me she could not wait to jump his bones. Yep, she met him and in two nights could not get enough of him, wanted to have his baby and be his sex slave and he being the “honorable man he is, did not want to see her throw her life away when she was not the “one” for him. So she delves into alcohol and adds some major drugs to the mix, being hurt and dejected, you know. Yet the “gentleman” and I use the term loosely, very loosely, left her on a beach, unable to be in control of herself. Pleeeeeaaase!!!! Most of us did not fall off the TURNIP TRUCK, that the people who would believe this did. Most of us do not make a habit of hitching rides on turnip trucks.
Another big argument for this would be, who is to say that Jorin is even her type or that she was attracted to him. He may be attractive to 13-16yo girls and maybe even a few older than that, but NEWSFLASH!!! The young man is not all that. He is not.
Natalee has no big knowledge of the “superjock” all around popular kid he is supposed to be in his school and his village. In two days, she cannot necessarily get a sense of that either. She also would not necessarily be impressed by his family being wealthy either. Everyone keeps saying she is only getting media attention because her family is rich, blah,blah,blah. Yet, I do not know that she is rich, her family is prominent in their community and her father and stepfather are respectable working men. The ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE VERIFIED THAT THERE WAS ALOT OF CHEMISTRY BETWEEN THEM WERE: drumroll please, the two that are in the klink with the little twerp. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I don’t get the feeling that Jorin takes no for an answer. I also do not get the feeling that he obeys that easily, the rules, his parents(if they even have rules) or other authority. He has been gambling as a minor.
He also made the claim that “Natalee was trying to recoup losses she had at gambling, and he being quite good at gambling, would help her.” Quite good at gambling from his “first time” at it. No, he has been in the casinos for a couple of years now. Dr. Spock would probably have liked a hand in the Van Der Sloot’s child rearing. Dr. Phil, what would you say.
Yes, I feel that the Van Der Sloots are guilty of not really being “parents of the year” Anita Van Der Sloot, you are concealing, concealing,concealing.
Still, I ask, why does Jorin and his “buddies” not even the two he was with that night, have a need to be in a picture, 4-6 guys and one girl. There is not necessarily anything wrong with that, but it is not the same girl each time and some of the guys are different. Do you have career aspirations as a “film star” Jorin. Do you really consider yourself that much of “all that” or are you just some twisted little boy with egomaniacial tendencies. Why the sunglasses Anita? Did hubby get frustrated and take it out on you because he cannot remember which lie he told last any longer? I realize that you, Paulis, might be frequenting this board, but I highly doubt it. You must be very busy trying to make notes of what you have said, what your current lies are, what your past lies were, and what your future lies need to be. IN addition to that, I am sure you must have more paperwork than you can handle for giving Jorin tips on what to say, not to say and how to lie about it. YOu must be very, very busy.
Here is a tip for Paulis Van Der Sloot. Usually the “conversation men have with their sons at that time in their lives, when they are becoming young men is:
“Son, do not drink and drive”
“Son, be safe……….use a condom”
But I think you get a little too carried away at the fact that you want anyone to believe that as sons are headed out the door, their fathers go “Oh, by the way, just a heads up,………………………NO BODY………NO MURDER!!!!! Just wanted to give you a little information about life.
Also, since Valentjin also has access to a computer still yet, he may be feeding information to his family. Unless it is the authorities linking to his profiles and sites.
They have the possibility of access to all information floating around on the internet.
Hopefully, this will help them screw up or slip up and soon. I do not think it is making them comfortable.
I wonder if duif or deif=pigeons means the messenger is about to fly the coup or maybe it is good news and the stoolie is about to sing. Maybe Satish is close to a breaking point. He seems to be the weakest. Maybe an Alabama drivers license appearing or “Natalee’s” twin will get his tongue to wagging more. It cannot hurt.
J. Says,
We know all this and that is why we are sick to death about this case. it’s too unbelievable to believe.
Mickiemousse have you also noticed that Mickey Johns changed his story a little, now he says the vdS family, before he mentioned only Joran, what’s up with that?
J–welcome and I can’t agree with you more. I think everyone here was shocked that Daddy VDS was released and I for one think that the authorites are covering up something.
Trisher, UR2 funny!!!
Croes (the DJ) is a JOKE. What’s wrong with that guy??? He got arrested, he lost his job! I think he just wanted to be on CNN!!
# mickiemouse Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 9:50 am
wtisfit,
yes, I picked up about the phone call. I didn’t understand how they got his number and listened to the phone call. What phone call are they referring to? Does anyone know? How would they have access to that unless it was on Natalee’s cell phone. Maybe Joran called her since they met a day earlier. However, I heard that her cell phone did not work on the island. Maybe he called someone else whose cell phone did work to make contact with Natalee. Maybe he called the HI looking for her.
This is my guess.
————————————
Thank you for answering. Typically, anything I post goes unnoticed, so I try not to bother unless it’s something I’m really curious about.
I’m not sure how they would have access, which was why it was so odd to me that the comment was repeated, yet glazed over by the manner in which he discussed it. That was what also made me wonder if it was possible there WAS a recording of it because of him being in Aruba for reasons other than renting cell phones. If one were a DEA agent implanted on Aruba, might it make sense to own a rental cell company? I don’t know the laws on Aruba regarding tapped phone calls, but if someone wanted to listen to phone calls about drug activity on the island, owning a cell phone rental company might be a good way to go about doing so.
In the beginning of this case it was discussed time after time that Beth and Jug met up with a DEA agent who was already on the island for whatever reason. That this DEA agent helped them with quite a few leads.
Again, that guy just didn’t seem Aruban to me. Perhaps it is just my wild imagination, but that whole conversation left me wondering if maybe this guy gave Beth a LOT more info on that first night than we are aware.
crs–what is bellini?? *blushing with embarassment for not knowing*
But what made Steve Croes open his mouth………….
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Threat of Death
jake-didn’t he get paid to be on that station? didn’t greta mention he was a no show and fox doesn’t pay guests?
But after seeing him with Natalee
That was an error. I meant to say after seeing him on tv in regards to Natalee Holloway. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
crs-LOL LOL LOL I thought you were asking me if I had any kids!!!! OMG. Anyway, I have 3 little girls (BEAUTIFUL)!! No I have never had a bellini, but I will definetly order one this weekend while I’m cilling by the pool! (not the beach, because I’m scared of the sharks)!!!!
Does anybody know how the family of Natalee found Joran’s house three hours after they were on the island? How did they even know his name, it’s amazing!
Kris it is peach puree and champagne, mmmmmmmmmmm!
Stef,
He explained to Greta that he never changed his story. He was mad at the police and did not elaborate. The police didn’t ask for specifics and he didn’t offer any. He told Greta that he relayed as much of what Deepok told him so that he could get released. He said he did not want to help the police. if it were not for Greta interviewing him we would never have heard that info.
I predict Greta will solve this case.
Great, now all kind of people here start to make threats to the Arubans.
And btw, the prime suspects come from the Netherlands and Surinam, they are not Arubans to start with.
Lots of people go missing every day, fortunately most of them turn up again at some point.
The Aruba police force is rarely caught up in such an incidence as the Nat case.
So they were waiting hoping she would pop up somewhere.
She didn’t, and valuable days for investigation were lost.
And don’t forget, over a 1000 ! girls were gone missing in the US the last 10 years.
I suggest, never go on vacation in the US, a very, very dangerous place to be indeed.
I never suggested boycotting Aruba…where did you get that from? But when I say this has the potential to really affect the island (and I know the Arubans do not deserve this defamation) and they have a lot to lose and should be angry- not just concerned- I mean it.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
wtfsit? – I notice you! That is an interesting theory. I missed most of the interview so I’m picking up bits and pieces here.
They new the security guards were innocent when they picked them up, they were supposed to be scape goat’s and would have been but they had air tight alibies, those two usually are out late at night roaming around just not that night
TheGreatPretender, you are funny.
Just one quick post today cause I don’t think I can deal being here today. I want to point out something I picked up on last night. during Greta’s interview with teh busness guy with the cell phone company. I forget his name. but:
When he stated the Nat had been doing drugs(not knowningly I will add) and was drunk he told this guy that they went to the lighthouse and she started acting all wild or wierd or something like that and was being loud.
BUT: when Greta interviewed the brothers mother they said: We never talked to her. She never even introduced herself to us and was like almost passing out i the back seat with Joran.
So we have yet anther lie from them.
Good morning everyone!
Are any of my friends here?
IS THERE ANY NEW INFO?
I just wrote my letter. It is easy to cut and paste to a word document. Please do the same for Natalee, fellow Monkeys.
Stef, the fellow students shared as much as they knew from the last time that they saw her with him at C&Cs. She met him the night before, supposedly. I’m still baffled about the phone call to Croes at the cell phone company.
Gotta go, catch ya later!
Jake:
I am ROFLMAO!!! 3 Bellini’s??? I was thinking, ‘I don’t know what kind of cocktail that is, but Jake is going for the gusto’.
LMAO!
CRS–OH YEAH !!! New drink for me to try!!
Is MOM off drinking somewhere without us??
PK–Have you heard from Shock lately? I wish someone from the island would show up to let us know what is going on…
Gees Dan – ease up. I was joking with you.
I deal with stress using humor, and I find this situation very stressful.
I acutally would go to Aruba – no boycott, no boycott, no boycott
I don’t drink but give me a MILLER LITE.
crs-did they really not photograph any of the suspects when they brought them in? that’s part of the don’t care attitude they have.
steve not volunteering info is exactly what these boys are doing. i think the lack of disrespect for these police is what is keeping this case from being solved. not that they have proved they need respect.
Jake – i wondered why you said you had three belinis, that is precious, how old are they? Also on Croes, you know that little f***er is going to write a book and probably sell a million copies.
Just heard on CNN that they are searching today in a specific location in the ocean
pimp-i’m sure some stations pay their guest, but I think they only pay them for exclusivity.
In response:T K Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:31 am
tons of guys go out and meet girls for one night stands. Tons of guys could care less how that one night stand gets home afterwards. Does not mean they are killers or kidnappers. Arrogance and confidence does not make a murderer. either way your opinion is your opinion, just as mine is mine. I may be proven wrong here. If that happens then so be it. I just have a feeling that he is being railroaded here. Not trying to step on anyones toes.
Kristy Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:31 am
Joran looked like someone who got clean clothes from mom and dad and was happy that he had gotten to see them. Thats what he looked like.
Here is a news flash for you two kids. TK, most guys might not care about their one night stand but if they disappeared afterwards, they would be out there helping to find her, if for no other reason to make sure they were alright.
He was not just “happy” about clean clothes from his parents. His father is in that private meeting telling him to continue to be stoic, to continue to be silent, that “there is no body, there is no case.” He is smiling, convinced he is going to get away with it.”
OR maybe he has a cellmate that is submissive. Either way his smile, his body language is not that of “Boy, mom, Tide got my shirt really clean and you used just the right amount of starch.”
GP…SC probably did it for drugs…his brain is so fried in can barely speak in sentences.
If Ifs And Buts Were Candy And Nuts……..
Everyday Would Be Christmas………..
he Joran further stated that he just wanted to take her home. and that she only talked to Joran.
Pimp – No they really did not. They have zero, zip, zilch, forensic evidence in this case.
Jake, by the way, Croes book will read like a Doctor Seuss, it will have mostly pictures and very simple writing so his friends can follow along with the book.
Kris – thanks for the info. “Just heard on CNN that they are searching today in a specific location in the ocean “
crs-that’s what i was afraid of.
mickiemouse,
Is that what Aruban law allows???? You only tell the police enough to free yourself??? Here, I believe, you would still be under arrest and probably charged with hinderance or something. This is terrible. I bitch about how our justice sysytem is here in the US, but I’m beginning to see that we are actually a lot luckier than we think.
Not really good info–Hope they find nothing-like before
Kris, I promise, you will be most pleased with the bellini this weekend!!
Jake,
What are the news stations saying? Or are the guys watching rugby today
# Trisher Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 10:01 am
wtfsit? – I notice you! That is an interesting theory. I missed most of the interview so I’m picking up bits and pieces here.
——————————————————
I can’t remember the entire conversation, but the phrase he used that stuck out at me was, after he talked about Beth wanting to know about a phone call that might have come from him, he said, “So after we listened to the phone call (and something about they listened a few times for clarity or something similar to that effect), we…”
I was just really surprised Greta didn’t pick up on that and run with it. Which was what made me question it so. Greta is very astute, and for her not to run with such a glaring insinuation just let my mind run wild with it.
The US has the best system if you’re famous and have loads of money, look at O.J., Michael Jackson, Robert Blake…
Yesterday, a guy called into an atlanta radio station and confessed to a murder and it looks like he was telling the truth, looks like this guy really did kill someone like eight years ago.
crs-thanks for the suggestion, i’m thinking bellini and lime cliantro shrimp on the BBQ-anyone care to join me?
crs-My girls are 10, 9, and 2! When they were born, i bought their furniture at a store called Bellini, so imediately i identified that word with them!!!
With the $ Croes makes on the book deal he’ll probably open his own party boat bizz. He’ll name the boat “Greta”!
Kris, that sounds delicious!!
the most important point that Greta made last night was this: BEFORE it hit any news that Natalee was missing; her parents, friends and police showed up at the VDS home. The HI story was the story told to them. NOW why would one make up a story to cover himself when he did not even know Natalee was missing.
Put Anitas Photo Next To Natalees Photo……
Who Would You Want To Make Love To If You Were Paul Vander Slut………..
wtfsit? – Maybe on Greta’s website today they’ll have a transcript of that interview. ??? I will look for it with interest.
I’m begining to think they are never going to find her.
TheGreatPretender, low blow!!!!!
Jake – ooohhh, that is so cute, are the older ones so excited to have a little sister?
crs- WOW, that’s incredible! Who did he kill? What made him confess?
The first thing the Twittys did after the VDS told the HI story, still before it hit the news, was to view hours of HI tapes, only to learn it was not true. SOOOOOOOOOOOOO……why did the police fail to arrest Joran immediately? Why, instead, were two innocent black men arrested?
Rachael—Good morning,
I didn’t know you were here. How are you today?
wtf-
I am guessing that they didn’t show what he said about listening to the call for legal reasons that might have to do with the case
Since you’re all ignoring me I guess I’ll leave, bye for now if anybody is interested.
Stef – I would have aquitted Robert Blake. A mondern day Greek tradegy.
Rachael – I tend to think that will be the most likely outcome, only hope at this point is when Joran gets out, eventually he brags to someone about what happened and provides more detail and that person comes forward. Joran seems like someone that will eventually spill the beans. I was thinking what they really need to do is get him drunk and just let him talk.
The local parlant is that the police are opening up other options in this investigation with the help of the FBI and other international agencies. Especially concerning the ex-boyfriend. See, it is difficult for the Aruban police to have access to that young man, since he is a US citizens and they are never asked to leave the country to attend some kind of interrogation.
The name of that boy has been circulating on the island since the week-end ans his actions are also being placed into question. It is not nothing new what I am writing down here, since it has vene been commented on local radio yesterday.
I find it odd too, that only fourteen postings were made on the page concerning the mother’s interview with an Aruban radio station. It is too bad you could no t hear the interview. Try to read what the lady is saying.
The Dutch Are The Kings Of Smut …………………
95 % Of The Sexual Smut On The Net Originates From Holland….
Pretender:
Christmas everyday???? WHOO HOO!!! Bring on the Egg Nog!!
Jake – he is apparantly in a crazy house in Texas and the guilt just finally got to him.
Oh Jake – you is gonna have ur hands full! They’re cute now! In nine years you will have 2 teenagers and 1 almost! ouccccccccccccchhhh
I have 3 girls – 20, 21,23.
As I have said before, 2 angels and one not so. I am a good mom, too. Any of my girls could be in Natalee’s situation. Not for want of anything I did or did not do. This could happen to anyone – which is why I am so concerned and prayerful for the H/T family.
LIKE FATHER
LIKE SON
crs-i really don’t think joran can hold water amongst his friends. i do hope you are right and he does blab. unless mrs vds starts homeschooling him until he graduates and they send him off to college…in alaska.
I had heard on the news, or something that there was a way to listen in on to cell converstions, you dial the phone number and then punch in some code and it connects you, like 3-way calling, except the other 2 have no idea that you are on the line.
Stef–don’t go-sorry, trying to keep up with all the posts this morning.
sorry, typo king – tragedy
crs- Yes they are, they drive her crazy!
Kris-are you haveing a bar-b-que this weekend? Yummy!! i love shrimp!
No I am not a psychic. I have never thought of myself as one though I have had on very rare occasions dreams that hold some truth. I wish I was and I wish there could be truth to it but I am not going to hold my breath. I will say however that I still remember the dream and details of it are still very vivid in my memory. I have never remembered a dream this long after awakening.
Now, to funny not bunny and the other trolls here, I will not respond to your posts so it is a waste of your time. Those of us here would just ignore your attempts to disrupt our thought sharing here. I believe in my heart that those truly trying to decipher, analyse and form theories are doing so from their hearts. God bless though of you. Call me a desktop detective if you wish but I will use information and analyse it and post my opinions. If there are any people from the MSM here, we hope some of this is useful. This goes for anyone of the Arubans that are sincerely trying to help… Help us confirm or deny things if you can. Since you are there, it can be valuable information.
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The new hammer”Judge-in-training” Paulis VDS, could not get the “evidence off the island by island hopping. Not enough time or enough planning? The days are 116 and the three are each of different mental strengths, which means one will crack before the others?!?
What happened was no accident. Someone being a judge and his pals would be able to help PVDS and his Urine VDS to get out of this and if it were an accident, a true accident, Beth Holloway Tweety would have been willing to accept it, maybe not at first, but after the facts and autopsy laid out evidence, she would have been willing to accept facts and it would be over by now. PVDS is smart enough and arrogant enough about himself to where he would have went immediately to his “friends” to the Dutch hierarchy and to the so-called, “Polis Chief” and gotten these boys out of this based on “accidental death.”
It was no accident. The truth is there. The evidence will show it. The shadows know. Duif, deif, golden brightness, cold,darkness, white grains, slate or granite, pointy rock, narrow passageway will show the truth. They do not have Natalee hidden in some house. I do not think anyone on Aruba is that dumb, including the polis.
Shiny, yellow. Bells or chiming, twisted paths. Silver, loud exhaust with tales in the rearview mirror tell a tale. Ask Satish. Hermit crabs. The music man “DJ Croes” idiot. Involved, his tongue is not in sync with the truth in any respect.
It is time to bring Natalee home. It is time. Satish is feeling this somehow. There is another feeling this also. Someone not in the spotlight. But who? They are out there, they must step forward.
The main problem I have with the ex theory is how does a visitor know where to get rid of a body so it will never be found, that does make sense. He would not know currents nor would he be able to bury the body.
the Great prentender – a small hyper bole
Simian,
Is this you? Are you referring to Jeremy?
Simian – is that really you and huh?
KRIS, HEY I AM HERE. TODAY IS MY FRIDAY. I AM JUST READY FOR THIS CASE TO BE OVER. IT IS SO SAD AND SO ADDICTING. ANYTHING NEW KRIS?
IS THAT THE REAL SIMIAN?
More on Jossy Mansur at
http://www.bayefsky.com/html/167_netherlands883.php
Simian,
What was Beth trying to say?
How is the ex involved? What did he have to do with her dissapearance?
Pimp – Joran seems like someone who loves to run that mouth, I think it would be just a matter of time.
CRS, I AM BEGINING TO WONDER ABOUT THIS THING WITH THE VAN DER SLOOTS. I GUESS I DON’T BELIEVE THEY ARE GUILTY UNTIL IT IS PROVEN. I THINK A BUNCH OF THE STUFF INVOLVING THEM IS SPECULATION.
Trisher- I was with my girls last night watching the news, and they wanted to know everything about the NH case, so I told them. I see the pictures of all those girls from MB and i think to myself, this could be one of my girls! I am trying to instill in them at an early age the “bad things” that are out there! My girls go to a Catholic School, so they have ALOT of faith in God! In this world, you need that!!!!!!!
crs-you may be right. if the day after he’s going around talking about her….tick tock
btw-kris, i haven’t heard anything from shock.
Jake,
YUP, shrimp, steak, salads, fresh fruit and dessert. Recently added to menu–BELLINI’S
the great Prentender – you really believe 95% of internet porn comes from Denmark??? lol lol lol
Good morning all.
pk? is that you?
Simian, I read the interview, unsure what the little postings on that have to do with anything. I do think it is odd that she “IMMEDIATELY” knew her daughter had been kidnapped. Why? Does not make sense? In order to have that reaction, you would have to have knowledge that…
1. Young girls go missing in the caribbean all the time and have an active fear prior to Natalee traveling that she might not be safe on the trip, or…
2. Something was positively going to happen to her.
Not accusing anyone, but that intereview is strange. Is that what you were eluding to Simian?
Stef:
I believe everybody on the island has their phone and address printed in a phonebook.
Do you think the Kalpoe brothers are talking? I do. I think they are the ones that said that Paul VDS talked to them about the aruban laws. Or did PVDS just offer that info on his own? I think something more is happening here. I think Caren Janssen knows that Joran is guilty.
Rachael, I agree, much specualtion, but all the lies really bothers me. I don’t buy they are scared or afraid of repurcussions.
Morning Hope
Jake, I saw last night, sr. sloot did an interivew with a dutch group and he did meet the boys and tell them to shut up. So yes, sr. sloot has sadi he had a conversation with them.
Does anyone know why it is that everyone is now tlaking on the news? Isn’t it interesting how just a week ago there were no new developments, nobody to interview,etc. Now all of a sudden this cell phone business guy comes out saying everything he talked about with Joran!! Where was this guy 2 weeks ago???
What do you all think of that?
The ex b/f there are referring to is an Ex from 9th grade. It is not some recent thing and they have been around each other the last 3 years and Nat has had other b/fs. If they are looking in this direction then it really bothers me as that is the wrong road and it tells me that they are grasping at straws.
morning, crs whats new for the day
vander F-
I won’t deny that this kind of thing happens all the time in the U.S. Yes, I know the suspects who started all this crap aren’t even Aruban. And yes, I know this is the first kind of case that Aruba has dealt with, and their investigators are inexperienced. But this whole thing smacks of cover-up and corruption of an alarming level, and that is what will hurt Aruba the most. One difference between U.S. investigation into this kind of thing and what I see in Aruba is, in the U.S. our detectives are genuinely cocnerned with justice, regardless of who the vicitm is or where they’re from. I’m just not seeing this sincerety or willingnes to do what it takes to solve the crime coming from your people. I’m not making threats…in fact, I have said time and again that I know how safe a palce Aruba is. But my warnings about what might happen as a result of this mess- and why- are genuine. Once again, you are putting words into my mouth: I NEVER said botcott Aruba. I have no basis to make that call. Read my posts more carefully next time, please!
Jake what cell phone guy
Jake, My daughter went to 12 years of Catholic School. She graduated from the oldest Catholic Girls High School in the US (Georgetown Visitation Preparatory School Georgetown, Wash DC). She is now a Sophmore at Mount Holyoke College. I watch the news and I know “there for the grace of God”. This was a normal girl, I look at her and see one of my daughters friends. I think it’s good we keep the presure on Aruba.
Justin,
Do you know NH?
crs-so sloot sr. just divulged this info on his own? mmmm. Why would he do that unless someone told on him?
After watching the interview with Charles Croes the guy from the cell phone company, there was one thing that stuck out in my mind. He stated that Joran said ” Natalie was coming on to him and dancing provocatively and she was drinking heavily and doing drugs” it kinda makes you wonder if he’s getting more of his story straight so that if she ever was found and or tests were done for drugs , if she were alive or other that he could say ” well she was drunk and had been doing drugs when we were at C&C’s. And it would already be out to the press and family he had already stated that before.
Mike
Denmark ???????????????
Need More Schooling Dude …………….
I am so lost, what did the dad do, and who is the cell phone guy????????, can someone please update me, PLEASE
mike- i agree totally. NH was a good girl. I can tell. NO DRUGS!!!! For those who think she did drugs, all her friends on this blog are SAYING NO TO DRUGS!! I believe it!
Aruba is a colony of Holland
Dutch citizens that fly between Holland and Aruba do not need passports and are not checked upon arrival back in Amsterdam…..
You can smuggle almost anything……….
izzy Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 7:30 am
S…so you are tired of hearing about NH? The obvious solution is GET OFF THIS BOARD!!! Duh…
Thanks Izzy, I was going to be more rude, but you could not have summed it up better.
S, this blog is about Natalee Holloway. Double Duh. Go leaf through the dictionary or something.
A true psychic would not want any payment for their offer to help. They might want their expenses paid if they had to travel, but a person with those abilities does not necessarily feel blessed, does not want media or other attention and only speaks when something comes up that makes them want to help someone in trouble. Most people with “visions” real visions, want to keep it as quiet as possible, to keep from being treated as a “freak” Most people with this kind of ability are not even always even sure of themselves. They do not want to share their identity to the world nor to truly profit from it. A gift of that nature can be a blessing and a curse at the same time.
The chances are a person with these abilities does not even share all of their “visions” with their own closest family members or friends for fear of them admitting them to a psychiatric facility or thinking them completely lunatic. Many centuries ago, people were punished for these abilities, ridiculed and chastised. In early 1900′s they were all treated as mental. Most people that have any true vision do not want anything but anonymity in order to be able to help!
kris-yes…i’ll explain later…it’s work related.
jake-that is interesting. they are all coming out of the wood work and singing like birds. their common thread is they don’t like the polis though.
I’m sorry Great Prentender, I believe Denmark produces more porn than The netherlands. Dude?? you obviously are educated lol
Big Pappy – can you find a link to the written version of that interview that was mentioned with the mom?
Jake – yes, I agree that it is odd that they are talking now. Esp Caren Janssen (sp?) from I heard yesterday (I think). Offering way more tidbits than before
Jake – fyi – I told my girls that if they had sex before they were married they would go blind. At first they believed me (they were young). And now it’s a talking point (a laughing point for us).
Did someone mention Charles Croes? What’s he have to do with this thing?
Lady–
wtfsit? Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 9:44 am
Did no one else pick up on the whole “phone call” discussion with Charles Croes? He continually mentioned a “phone call” that Beth had come to him inquiring of. There was a phone call made from a cell phone, and she wanted to know if it was one of “his” cell phones, being that he owns the rental cell phone company. Apparently it was, because he REPEATEDLY mentioned them listening to a phone call.
There is more to this guy than meets the eye. He seems very much American to me. Perhaps this is the “DEA agent” who was supposedly already on the island? Perhaps his rental cell company is a part of that? Is it also possible then, that they DID listen to some “phone call” because due to the reason for his business, there might BE recordings of all phone calls?
I know this probably sounds over-the-top, and it may be. But, am I the only one who caught the “phone call” talk?
I also find it very strange that Joran says ” Natalee was hitting on him” from all I have read he’s the one that loves to approach woman and he’s especially not scared to approach American women. He seems to find it challeging. So he kinda sounds like someone from the very beginning that was trying tomake it sound like she was the one instigating the whole thing from C&C’s onward. And one other thing …why did papa vds think it of importance to tell 3 innocent young men “that without a body there is no case” Seems to me you would only find that relavant in an instance of guilt. ( of something whatever that might consist of)
Morning G!!
Dan did not say to Boycott Aruba. I said that as a funny and I will be forever sorry. Sorry Dan Sorry Dan Sorry Dan
No Kris you are not the only one and I wondered to myself why Greta didn’t ask more questions about the reason why he was contacted in the first place which was the “phone call” the person with Beth was inquiring about. Seems kinda strange to me but maybe theydon’t want it brought out just yet.
Trisher- that is hilarious! LOL LOL. I have not gotten to the “sex” talks yet.
BP:
I find it interesting the Twitty’s were able to hook up with this cell phone company guy so quickly….it may be that NH attempted to make some kid of distress call or some other information (phone traffic) was picked up by his company and that is why BHT is saying she believes NH was in the VDS home at 3:10 AM on the morning of her dissappearnce…maybe it is cell phone company guy who initially alerted BHT, et al to a problem…and that is why they got there so fast.
Hope–
I agree with you–why would you tell an innocent person that? I wonder if he did that knowing that if a body was found–his “consul” would somehow interfer with a possible conviction..
Pimp slapped–Oh ok. Glad to know it’s still you.
You believe wrong Dude
.nl is the netherlands
CRS,
I JUST FIND IT PATHETIC THAT THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT WHO IS TRAINED IN HANDLING CASES CAN’T EVEN BREAK A 17 YEAR OLD (IF HE IS GUILTY). I MEAN IF JORAN IS GUILTY HE HAS SOEM WILL POWER TO PUT UP WITH THE PRESSURE AND NOT TALK. I KNOW THAT PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY I COULD PROBABLY NOT DO IT IF I WAS GUILTY OF A CRIME. BUT THAT MAKES ME WONDER TO, MAYBE HE DOESN’T KNWO AS MUCH AS WE THINK. HE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY LEFT NATALEE AT THE BEACH AND SHE GOT INTO SOME PROBLEMS ELSE WHERE. IF THEY DON’T FIND HER WE WILL NEVER KNOW. AND THAT IS A VERY SCARY THING.
I believe that Satish is going to sing! He appears to be the weak link and Deepak has more inner strength. Deepak and Joran are much more closer in friendship anyway. There is never much said about Satish! Very interesting…..
Hopefloats – “why did papa vds think it of importance to tell 3 innocent young men “that without a body there is no case” Seems to me you would only find that relavant in an instance of guilt.”
Thank you – I never thought about that like that b4. I don’t know why. And I’m being serious – not sarcastic.
Dman–a very good thought. I hadn’t even given that consideration
@ hopefloat 10:39
“why did papa vds think it of importance to tell 3 innocent young men “that without a body there is no case” ”
Because that is part of the procedure. First the police is trying to locate the body because without a body there is no case.
Something posted earlier
“Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:29 pm This one Babylonian is a sure shot. The boy and the Hindus are closer than you would think. They believe all of their fingers are burned. The Babylonians think she’s on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.”
To me, the Panama comment would lead me to interpret as that her body was dumped into the ocean and the currents are carrying the body towards Panama.
I think this because reading up in the currents and watching interviews last night, that basically anything dumped into the sea from the Northwestern side of the island gets caught in currents that can carry things from 20 – 40 miles a day. The current also flows towards Panama.
If there is any proof that she was in fact dumped in the Carib(bean Sea) then the odds of recovering her body become about .00001%
Morning everyone. So now Charles is involved? I happen to know Charles Croes, he used to be a time-share seller, what they call an opc (off property consultant). As far as I know he’s Aruban but his English is very good.
Great pretender you are way off on that whole colony remark, sorry.
I’m working on a codetalker thread in the Theory forum if anyone could add anything to this please stop by there.
Mike
For a Catholic Dude and a family to boot you know alot about SMUT
Or so you think
Thanks Kris
Kris-I caught the phone call thing, I think you have a good theory there!!
hi everyone….glad to see everyone posting
Jake, i am not sure why Sr. sloot admitted that, he knows the law so well though he must not be too worried about it.
OPC Stands for
OUTSIDE PUBLIC CONTACT
It is common knowledge that the some tickets were changed and that the ex-boyfriend left two days later than he intended. It has also been in the Aruban media. I mean why was this proposition never questioned?
All along authorities have been pushing in one single direction. They are changing their options. They want to know what happened during those days prior. Who was the girl with? Why was she not sleeping in her room? What were the group dynamics? Why since the start did all the other student failed to mention that the ex-boyfriend joined the group on his own?
That the boy is arrogant. Fine. He is a dutchman. We Arubans think all Dutch are arrogant. That the father sweats a lot. Fine. We Arubans know that northern Europeans sweat and stink a lot when in the Caribbean. Nothing new to us Arubans. It’s even kind of funny.
So the Mother still believes the girl was kidnapped. Obviously Joran did not kidnap her. That she was sold into slavery is ridiculous. Was she taken by the FARC? Why hasn’t the FARC made it public yet? They always do. If the mother’s first thought was kidnapping, who are her enemies? People don’t get kidnapped in Aruba. Why a Holloway then? Maybe she knows something we don’t?
do u thinkthat the chief of police will get off easy by just resigning? shouldnt their be a probe? afterall if he is dirty..pardon teh dirty hand pun! hahaha then more on force likely are too
Rachael, i think i could keep quite if i knew with 100% certainty that NH would never be found.
Well Great Pretender I defer to your pornographic expertise……I still don’t think the Netherlands produces 95% of internet porn, but obviously you would know better than me (from experience?)
G…Charles Croes was the one that lead the family to h Vds house the night they got into Aruba. He says after the call was made to him inquiring about a phone call possibly made on one of his type cell phones that he was going back to the HI to meet with the family and he went past the HI and stopped at a spot the beach that had 3 cars parked there , one car had several teenagers in it and he asked aobut the knowing Jvds and he said “yes I do” and they asked if he could take them there and he got in the car with CC and another guy and they headed the vds home he called the familyof NH and they met them there along with some other friends.
Jake–thanks but wasn’t my theory–Credit goes to wtfsit!!
But I’ll pat myself on the back for reposting!! LOL
OPC Also known as BODYSNATCHERS
This simian does not seem to be the real simian… there is not one riddle in the posting and I do not recall any other outright postings such as this one.
SIM, come on, the ex staying is not hard to explain, he wanted to stay to help find NH, a number of the kids on the trip did, he was not the only one.
I DONT KNOW CRS I HAVE JUST DECIDED NOT TO POINT ANY FINGERS. WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ONLY NATALEE DOES THAT IS WHY SHE NEEDS TO BE FOUND.
the whole ‘no evidence, no crime’ feed is what is going to help joran. as long as he doesn’t talk, they can’t find anything, then he’s free to go home. that would be enough for me to not crack.
Simian,
So the ex wasn’t an original part of the trip?? and what is FARC
Did any of you hear that Nat lost money at the Kaseeno?
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Not A Big Fan Of Wooden Shoes, Windmills, Tulips or forthat matter anything relating to the Dutch
Sea shell said:
“I think she was burried at the Police Chiefs house.
Are there gardens there?
It is raining, but the sun is shining.”
I’ve got the creeps from that. Shango mentioned gardener. Son of DirtyHand I believe he said. I also believe that the psychics at the forum I linked said something along the same lines. How can we get the cowboys to DirtyHand’s house? Also, anyone remember that “song” someone made up about this case — about Joran taking the cops to ‘the mound.’
Does anyone know where VdS (not vandersloot) son ‘gardens’?
OH wait Jake are you referring to the idea of him telling them no body, etc could hinder a conviction??
I forgot that I actually had a thought today
@ Jake, the first that I had heard about that was when Greta was interviewing the cellphone man.
how did beth know to go to this guy with the cell phone rental? why would she immediately think natalee was kidnapped when she heard she was missing? i talked to my daughter every day she was gone on her trip–why did beth not talk to natalee at all? if they were so close, wouldn’t she have required natalee call her at least once to make sure she was ok or that she was having fun etc. there seems to be so many things that are strange in this case and with no evidence whatsoever, i am beginning to believe natalee is alive. what if she was drugged and began partying and this got so out of hand that she can’t come forward now. why won’t her friends come clean and tell the whole truth–doesn’t matter what she was doing whether she was taking drugs or not, she needs to be found. you know natalee’s closest friend on the trip must have talked to her about joran–where is that information?
Jake – doesn’t everyone lose money at the c@sino? (most don’t admit it)
she did do drugs and drank the shit out of her.
Have you seen her mother on NOVA, offcourse not that is dutch tv. What great comedy it was. She should be a stand up comedian. But she stated her daughter would never do drugs, drink alcohol or have sex. WHAHAHA, yeah and my mother is the pope. She is 18, all women drink by that age, have sex and some do drugs. The harder the parents are saying it is illegal to drink the kids will drink. She went to a bar till late. People saw her drinking. And about the whole bs crap according the no body no case situation. Yeah in dutch law there has to be a body to convict someone with murder or 100% evidence he killed her or dropped her somewhere. None of that is the situation right now. Please accept our laws and procedures are differant, but not wrong.
It could be number of things that happened to her, it might be that Joran killed her, it can also be some else or she ran of.
Another interesting thing is the fact that 50 minor aged girls disapeare in the US everyday. None of them are on the news, why, the parents have no money or friends at the right places. In this case the parents have the friends and money. I hope they catch the right one or find her. And Danny boy from texas. I have a bullet her for your brains, what a retard you are. Please go back to you trailer and do ya mammy for me
sweating and being nervous..i dont thinkthis is an indication of his guilt..i think it would be weird if he wasnt nervous..i mean look at the situation he was in..comfronted by natalees mom….lets be fair here….although i am no proponent of PVDS …i do believe he knows something..and i do believe he used his position and pals in authority to interfere with the investigation to his sons benefit..without a doubt..which is why ia m concerned that teh dutch havent gone in and made things right…
Jake, I did hear that, apparantly Joran said that is how the orginal conversation struck up, she approached Joran, said she had lost money, he helped her, won, and said he was her lucky charm. I find it hard to believe she approached him first, by Country’s account he was hitting on a number of them. i think this is just a part of Joran painting a picture of her to protect himself.
Thanks Kristin
King…part of what process? Unless he was afraid the Aurbans were not gonna do a good job and provide a means for the innocent boys to be well represented and unless he had no trust in the aruban judicial system then why do you think it necessary to bring up the fact without a body theres no case. That is completely uneccessary to say unless there is involvment of somekind of guilt. If I had kids that were involved in something like this that would be the last thing on my mind to say. I would be totally wanting to find the girl not count on” no body no case”.
Can I ask you all something does anyone ever felt that if she was killed, that the body and everything she had was burnt?????????????????
Did anyone else see the interview where some lady reporter said that they were looking into the fact that Joran left Natalee on the beach and then she ran into an American boy on the beach? She said she could not confirm whether or not the FBI was investigating someone in the U.S. on this.
Was this the guy who changed his flight?
If you understand the Dutch language, you would know that Paulus did not say “if there is no body, there is no crime”. He said “I explained the procedure to them”. That bit about a body was added by CNN and Fox News. Makes for a better story.
He also said that he was arrested, because some people in the group that visited his house at 01:00 in the morning “heard” him say that he picked up his son at 4:00 AM. Meanwhile the police officer reported that Paulus said 11:00 PM. So based on two “witnesses” with the group he was arrested.
Steve,
When did you see this? It could be the same person that Simian was talking about.
2 allyanks
FARC YOU
LadyJA – Burned? In the middle of the night? without attracting attention? that’s hard to do.
The Simian got friggin’ tired. I.e. the Simian never mentioned any Sumerians. What does that mean? By the way, in Caribbean slang the “Babylon” is the Police.
Simian is it a possibility that her body was burnt??????
Question: When the LE in white outfits went to VdS house, does anyone recall them searching around the outside of the house, in the landscaping, or am I remembering wrong?
BTW, I am working from home again. I work for myself, which right now is a bad thing, because my “boss”, although a sweetie, seems to be obsessed with this case.
Shit (sorry) I’ve got a meeting so I’ll be back later. I actually do work! No happy hours here.
Adieu,
How if it is early in the morning, there are bushes around, allot of ppl dont hang around that time of morning, so it isnt hard to do.
crs..u hit the nail on the head…about being able to keep quiet if u were very sure the body would never be found..we know straight form dutch reporter that PVDS actually admitted to counselling boys if there was no body…would be harder to convict….i think this is what happened…
was steve croes smaller boat searched…? because he admitted to sleeping/being on guard on the boat that night…..pretty weird..havent they said that boat was near the marriott beach??
i think if natalees character was bad that you would have had more teens form ehr area coming on tv discrediting her…this has not happened to my knowledge
“A Current Affair” had the story about the american meetin Natalee after Joran left.
This was on last night. On Current Affair, I believe.
IS THIS THE REAL SIMIAN?
Simian when Greta was talking to the lead prosecutor she asked her about PVds talking with the boys and Greta asked if he had told them “without a body there would be no case” and she said yes “he had told them that and he also said it was in general speaking that he was giving them advice on the case” pretty much exact words “no body no case” this is a live interview with the lead prosecutor not some ordinary official.
No, Rachael. I don’t believe it’s even close to the real Simian. No eloquence.
Did they say anything about there sources? Where are they getting this information? Does anyone know
2 allyanks:
NOW I understand what an IQ of 70 is. Thanx!
What american meeting her after, where are you all getting that info, is this a diversion, and also what guy switched his flight??
Sulfuric acid
does anyone know who the guy was with the dj the night he was freed and at his home being interviewed and then yesterday when greta was interviewing the dj, they were on their way to airport and why was he going to the airport?
AnnaMarie – the US FBI were relagated to searching the “outside” of the residence..
uhh so after this long they are sayig she met an american boy on the beach …sources of info for Current Affair? Seems like a diversion attempt to me but Im all for hearing facts where can we get this link?
Pretender:
Sulfuric acid? *shudders at the thought*
You think the VDS’s just happened to have some in the garage? LOL
great pretender – sulfuric acid??? lol maybe a bank of high intensity lasers….
Does anyone know how we can go to a new page for a faster load time?
Oh, and can you caps anything big for me cuz I yam at work. Yes, I work very, very fast and have time for this.
Trisher, it’s the second blog on Monkeys main page, not many comments in there.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1201#comments
well here in jamaica we burn alot…so if its the smae there…someone could burn things without seeming odd….but when they burn animals who get hit on road etc….it smells very bad…so i think the smell would be indicative of something strange..dont mean to sound insensitve ..
I work for the IBF
International Bureau of Fraud
Sandy I don’t believe that it has been said who was with Steve Croes or what his alibi was.
we’ll just hop down the the pharmacy and pick up 20 gallons of sulfuric acid.
LOL MOM. Thanks, Mike.
Anyone else recall the typically cryptic “DirtyHand’s son is gardener” comment? We need Greta interviewed Van der Straaten at his home and nosing around the gardens!
I’m back! I had to go for a minute! What have i missed.
They had 10 days to get rid of evidence…..
Anything is possible
Thanks Big Pappy!
Can we move over here?
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1201#comments
Strange thing. PVDS does not have an alibi as to what he was doing in the wee hours of the morning on May 30th. Momma VDS was out of town?
@ Hopefloat
What I meant to say was that the dad had the suspicion that the prosecuter was about to arrest those boys. That means it is most likely that the boys will be interrogated. Now, what is the first thing the cops would want to know. Exactly, where is the body. And why would the cops want to know that? Because without a body there is no case. And that’s what he told the boys. That’s the difficulty here: there is only one sentence quoted, but I think the dad said a lot more. You have to see things in perpective. But the Americans are not the only one with that problem, we Dutch can also be very shortsighted, trust me
And by the way, what does it mean that my comment is awaitening moderation, am I not moderate enough?
Anna not discounting your theory but “gardener” you think also could possibly mean someone who produces drugs or has his hand in ALOT of “dirt”
Hey BigPappy- are you trying to get rid of me? You can’t post over there.
So you are quoting the lead presecutor. Great. Hear Paulus himself in dutch. Have someone translate it for you.
La eloquencia no paga con alguna clase de gente este blog.
So the diversion for Joran could be the American boy, but never Joran being a diversion for the American boy. Nice. Very well put.
Did anybody check his room those two days? The FBI was in Aruba immediately. Did they go for the American boy? I don’t think so. The mother was/is convinced the girl was kidnapped. The initial posters said KIDNAPPED. Not MISSING or HAVE YOU SEEN? They all said KIDNAPPED. Was there a fear all along for such a thing to happen?
Trisher-I got you! I am trying to work and read and type. Thank God I am good at multi-tasking! Talk about going crazy! I have to run home now and take my nanny some milk for my baby!!! I’ll be back in 30 minutes!!!!
Trisher–I can’t post there–can you?
What was that last post over there about from moose–
moosetracks Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 9:50 pm
Voice analyzers are in Aruba
What kind of Pharmacies do you have in your neighborhood MIKE
Muriatic acid and sulfuric acids can be bought with your clorine for your POOL
King I understand and under normal circumstances I could see this as nothing suspicious but when the cops start their interrogation and they ask where the body is and you don’t get an answer because the suspects don’t know and soon after when they are interrogated again their alibis and story changes then the “no body no conviction (case) becomes a very relevant “generally stated” legal advice” by the father (aka pvds )
Sorry Kris, BigPappy gave me that and I think he’s a bully trying to get rid of me.
im a believer in the fact we are over analysing this…when u look at time line…its relatively obvious something bad happened to natalee while she was with Joran…and that he was counselled by hisfather as to the high likelihood of being found guilty if he stays quiet and no body is found…..a dutch reporter whointerviewed PVDS relayed this. Now where would you put a body on a small island if u didnt want it found..in teh water..we have steve cores staying on a boat and coming forward with the same false alibi….
Simian, Creo que usted es quià ©n usted dice. Soy tambià ©n greatful para cualquier informacià ³n que usted pueda pasarnos encendido.  ¿Usted sabe cualquier cosa sobre la bà ºsqueda en el ocà ©ano hoy? Por favor sepamos. Grazias
who do you think the next person to get arrested is? WHat is all of this Jermey talk?
Rachael,
I think that was the name of an ex-boyfriend that showed up in Aruba w/o the group and then changed his plane ticket after NH disappeared. Could be nothing
Great Pretender – try to buy surfuric acid in greater than 5% solution.
you will attract serious attention
there were 140 students on that trip which “american” boy are you talking about? And why hasn’t this story came out in the first 34 days?? And yes one would automatically assume diversion along with ALL the rest of the bumbling idioticy that has gone on with the case since day one. There could be a diversion for Joran sure I would like to see one ..who is this person that caused the diversion is Joran lieing to cover for them? Because he is LIEING for some reason!!!!!!
YOU ALL ARE LEGENDS
IN YOUR OWN MINDS
Don’t forget…two black Arubans(security guards) were implicated first so that there was an immediate arrest to buy the boys, & daddy VDS more time. And guess who advised the boys to come up with this story about dropping NH off and a security guard approaching her as she got out of the car….>Daddy! Then when that story failed due to the video camera at the hotel, stories changed again and again. 10 entire days to fart around, get rid of evidence and prepapre to polk loopholes in the prosecutorial process. Daddy VDS is a mastermind at finding loopholes to weasel out of trouble! His son Joran knows this too and this is exactly why nobody is talking!
i think the voice analysis is a great addition..a bit too late maybe tho,….
Good point, hopefloats. Maybe again I’m being too literal. Just that sea shell’s post earlier goes with some of the other posts I’ve read at the pyschic forum. Will have to review Shango’s posts again.
lisabobessa————r u Jamaican
THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES HAVE EVERYTHING THAT IS BANNED IN THE GOOD OLE USA
Could be something. Thing is nobody has mentioned him. Nobody has had the chance to question him. Why doesn’t the FBI take him in? He certainly would have motive. Wrap your mind around that.
Why don’t the other girls dish on Natalee? Simple, because they were also part of the proceedings. They also partied out in Aruba. Puritanical mindset would not allow them to let Mom & Pop know.
@ Hopefloats
But the father never intended to give legal advice, so all the theories that the dad knows more have been sweeped out. Besides, when the cops held me in custody, I never say the truths. In fact best is to make several differant statements, so the cops can’t relie on you and so can’t the judge. It’s a very effective defens.
Simian,  ¿Por quà © es usted se ofendià ³ tan fà ¡cilmente por los que no le piense a ser verdadero? Sà © que usted es, y su elocuencia, en mi opion todavà a està ¡ allà . Por favor sepamos quà © està ¡ entrando encendido en Arbua hoy. Creo que usted es una de nuestras conexiones mà ¡s grandes allà , junto con checkme.
“Simian Said” –La eloquencia no paga con alguna clase de gente este blog.
There you go. The real Simian would not say something of that low a caliber in response, unless he was deliberately provoked.
Simian your posts do help shed some light on things. Thanks
Hopefloats Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 10:33 am
After watching the interview with Charles Croes the guy from the cell phone company, there was one thing that stuck out in my mind. He stated that Joran said ” Natalie was coming on to him and dancing provocatively and she was drinking heavily and doing drugs” it kinda makes you wonder if he’s getting more of his story straight so that if she ever was found and or tests were done for drugs , if she were alive or other that he could say ” well she was drunk and had been doing drugs when we were at C&C’s. And it would already be out to the press and family he had already stated that befo
Thank you Hope Floats. That is exactly right.
I could not help but get back on here long enough to address two theories I have seen. I REALLY NEED TO ADDRESS THEM:
First, to whomever thinks they are Det. Columbo, probably more fitting Det Clueless:
YES, YOUR THEORY IS INTERESTING. YOU WHO SAID SOMETHING ABOUT JUG BEING INVESTIGATED AND I WILL TELL YOU DET. CLUELESS YOU MIGHT HAVE A THEORY.
See Jug knew that commercial airlines identify you and he would be discovered way too easily by travelling that way and a private charter must log in and have air clearance in order not to get shot the hell down for invading airspace. So he devised a plan in 24 hours and executed it. He first contacted his pal, Jack Bower and got info on how to execute a serious covert operation in 24 hours. Jack gave him the lowdown and Jug took his waterproof auto, which he kept secret from Beth and all family, as well as the world, and drove to Orange Beach, Alabama. He needed to get to Natalee before she revealed their sordid love affair. Young daughter takes stepdad away from mom. He met another great friend at the shore. Sponge Bob Square Pants who travelled across the ocean with him, making only two stops along the way, one to Bob’s pineapple to get his credit card for gas. They reached the shore of Palm Beach, Aruba, where Jug’s psychic powers helped him to immediately find Natalee and Joran, where Natalee left with Jug and Jorin promised to remain quiet because he wants an autographed picture with Spongie later. Then Jug strangled Natalee to death, taking her body and disposing of it in an abandoned well or deep cavernous hole. Travelling back to meet up with Spongie, who was under the impression that Jug is on a secret government mission( to continue peace between sharks and fish.) They drive back across the ocean, Spongebob is talking old covert stories with Jug, who is a little nervous about the crime he just committed. He drops Sponge off at the Pineapple and arrives back at Orange Beach at 2:00am. He has 45 minutes, to get back to his home, board a plane to Aruba with his wife and arrive there. OF course, he enlisted help from the 4400 for that. Beth did not even notice he was missing.
Did I shoot enough holes in that stupid theory for you, are would you like to come back for more. I have great aim, but I am not sure I can get the small fragments of the theory that are left, since they are invisible to the naked eye.
Second theory, the ex-boyfriend. If there was a recent ex-boyfriend on the trip with Natalee. Yes, this one is more plausible because Natalee checked in with the ex prior to taking off with a strange boy and told him, hmmmmmmmmmm I will be at the Marriott area beach at roughly 2:03am in case you want to talk, have rough sex or anything like that. But the ex also has esp, so he knows to hide in the bushes at exactly the right time, wait until Jorin, Dpak and Satish have gone, jumps out, beats Natalee to death, then strangles her and hides the body in a place where the Aruban “keystone” cops will never find it. The Marriott pool. Probably 8ft deep. He then calmly boards a plane back home and goes on about life as though nothing happened. He was right, the “Aruban polis” are still waiting to determine what the “image” at the bottom of the pool is, but they cannot comment or investigate this image because it could damage the case. But wait, he also found time to set up JOran and Dpak and Satish by planting lies in their head that made them make up cover stories for no apparent reason. He must have promised them “naked pictures” of Cristina Aguliera.
Did I shoot enough holes in that theory because I am under the impression I can take that theory, fill it with water and water my lawn faster than a Tsaunami with the holes I just made. Moving on………………………………………………………………….
great pretender ..with your internation fraid connections..maybe you should get teh aruban authorities to check out any suppliers of acid then…check who was purchasing!
legends in our own minds….how true
that has what I have been saying the whole time …all the lieing and changing of story is a well documented defense in most cases but when you are the “main” suspect last seen with missing person it doesn’t get you the same treatment as a normal suspect you get looked at alot deeper , just ask Scott Peterson..his lies and deceit helped convict him but of course his father wasn’t legal counsel (giving him advice) in the hometown where Peterson’s wife and unborned son were kidnapped, killed and threw in the canal.
Great Pretender – I’m sure sulfuric acid is really easy to come by on such a small island, especially in such a concentrated solution and in such quanity. Heck I’ll bet they keep 20 – 30 gallons on hand just for situations like this..
Anna,
I belive that it is him..
I wish he would respond to my posts though
How do we know if this is the real Simian? Who will the nest arrest be? And when will it happen?
Just a though Rachael. Maybe papa Van der sloot will be next. Know how they say “what happens twice, happens thrice.”
The American boy who is the ex. That has been on the Aruban media for the last couple of days. Sadly not really on the American media. CNN and Fox News speculate with everything else, except with the notion that some ex-boyfriend joined the group on his own and then changed his ticket to leave two days later than he is supposed to.
What was he doing during those two days? Did anyone check his room? What was the dynamics of his realtionship with Natalee?
Have you stopped to think that Joran really doesn’t know anything. Don’t underestimate the Aruban Police. The only thing that fucking up the investigation is media pressure to move in a certain direction.
Who told you that the Paulus told the boys to blame black security men? That is not true? Do you knwo something? Maybe you should be questioned.
Mike you are as closed minded as your Catholic upbringing………………..
10 days i could have flown around the world and brought back anything from anywhere
If it is him, he will be able to explain why no email after his posts.
I thought the blog was getting to boring so I felt that I just had to jump in and say
System of a Down rules
TheGreatPretender Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 11:27 am
YOU ALL ARE LEGENDS
IN YOUR OWN MINDS
TGP: well said -one of thr best blogs in weeks…
lmao@ puritanical mindset……too funny! i wont even respond….some kids..liek Joran for instance have parents who not only know but condone underage drinking and gaming! even when they are a part of the justice system. All theyd have to do is go on their sons HI5 webpage or Tickle one…and they can see what hes been up to..i have a 17 year old…and i know what he posts on his..
I think that someone also needs to blow teh whistle to the gaming regulators….a serious implication for arubas gaming licensing !! VDS should eb charged under taht alone…and all the hotels he gambles at??!! am i the knly perosn who is disturbed by that? I am involved in the same business here where i live..and i cant fathom it????
Back on topic. Does anyone know where they are searching today? Have they had the cadaver dogs out on boats? I also heard Texas Equusearch is sending personel home.
mike
ARUBA DOES NT HAVE POOLS
Justice will be served eventually…somebody will crack, somebody will slip up, somebody will get charged with something else later and things will resurface. I like to believe (without getting preachy here) that at the very least those involved with Natalee’s disappearance will have to answer for what they did in Judgement. Until then, it is truly sad that Natalee’s family will be suffering for not knowing what happened and not having anyone to answer for what happened.
2allyanks- drugs and drinking might be the norm in Europe, but some people in the U.S.- even 18-year-olds- have some moral character. Was Natalee drinking that night? Nobody has s aid otherwise. Was she on drugs? Maybe- but was it intentional or not? Apparently Joran has a history of ‘taking advantage of young girls’ as AP News said a few days ago; you can’t tell me that he could’nt have drugged her too and ended up ODing her (I am not convinced Joran killed Nat on purpose but I think he is responsible somehow). When- not if- the Aruban authorities fail hopefully the Holloways will have the strength and resources for carrying on. I know many people go missing in the U.S. every year. In fact, the very safe, quiet, fairly small town I live in has a higher crime than Aruba- even with the same population. But Natalee is kind of a symbol of all those missing persons, is she not? Isn’t it possible that the only good thing that may come of this is a greater awareness of this problem and perhaps it may reopen some of those cases? As for your other comments, I won’t dignify them with a response except to say my mother is a saint!
Give it up Great Prentender, Aruba doesn’t have sulfuric acid in the concentration / quanity necessary. BS
Great Prentender -know a dead horse when you beat one?
We need to open another post this one is taking forever to load
@ Hopefloats
Still, he has to be convicted on facts, not on his own statements. A liar isn’t a murderer. A dad who is explaining a procedure isn’t making his son a murderer. A friend saying that something bad happened, doesn’t make him and the friend a murderer. A dead body of NH doesn’t make Joran a murderer and someone of FOX saying he’s guilty works only for him. I hope that after he is released and his name has been cleared, he sues FOX for all they got.
I believe that all the kids on the trip have been questioned from what I can tell the ones that left on the day when they were suppose to was about a 1/4 of the kids, Alot including chaperones were also held in Aruba for questioning and flew out 4 days later. And if a b/f from the 9th grade (which is to whom you are referring) is what he is not a recent boy friend so that would be from 3 yrs ago, I believe he would have shown some other signs of a stalking jealous heartbroken teen long before this trip. And if this be the case I am sure the FBI is checking into it. What did he actually accidentally run across Natalee or follow her the whole trip and just magically decide on the last night he was gonna “do something bad to her”?? If he did change his flight and leave after Natalee disappeared is because he had more heart( and was very upset soemthing happened to someone he cared about still or in the past) that the “heartless womanizing stud” that was alone with her on the beach and left her there unknowingly what happened after that.
HEY MIKE
YEAH I JUST SAW 2 SEARCH DOGS DRESSED IN SCUBA GEAR
Rachel ,
Jermy was Nat’s b/f her freshmen year at MB. She has had other b/f’s since Jermy and there has never any issue between the two of them. In the past three years.
TheGreatPretender Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 11:45 am
mike
ARUBA DOES NT HAVE POOLS
In correct. THE HOTELS THERE MOSTLY DO HAVE POOLS. We are quite the Holiday Inn fans, almost went to ARuba this year. HOliday Sunspree, Marriott both have pools at their hotels. Check the travel brouchures. Better yet tell Holiday INN and the Marriott to cover up those big, concrete water holes they have in their lawns and tell all those people in bathing suits they are erroneously swimming in a non-existent pool! Geez. Get the info right!!!!!!!!
Mike 1: Are you still in the DC area?
Great pretender and first admen are a trip! First Admen was told the other day to take THE 5TH! Guess it’s hard headed!
Kris:
No answer to your Spanish.
No response to the lack of emails.
No Simian. And notice the fruitloops are suddenly coming outta the woodwork with their insulting words in stilted English.
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