Interview With Our Own “DASH” on Aruba trip and Natalee Holloway, Part I


For those of you not familiar with Scared Monkey’s Discussion Forum and comment section, “Dash” have been gracing our pages for over two weeks now commenting and answering questions of the many readers of Scared Monkeys. She is one of the two Mountain Brook, AL teens who appeared on the O’Reilly Factor this past week portrayed as an exclusive. If that was an exclusive, I am not sure what one would call our all access pass we have been privileged to have to Dash. We thank Dash in taking the time to doing an interview with us in hopes of clearing up many questions that either have not been asked or are being reported inaccurately.

We are proud to offer Dash in an unlimited format to offer her side of the story. Dash is a friend of Natalee Holloway’s, went on the Aruba trip and was in Carlos & Charlie’s the night of Natalee’s disappearance.

The following is Part I of our interview with “DASH” in her own words, unedited:

Red: Did the chaperone’s fly back on the same flight as the students?

DASH: Yes, the “chaperone’s” were with us at all times… in fact, I sat by a chaperon on the plane! They were with us on ALL flights and on the bus from Birmingham
to Atlanta and the bus from the airport to the hotel and back. Any allegations that the “chaperone’s” took private jets are completely false… the family took a
private jet to Aruba after Natalee was reported missing. This information has been severely mis-reported.

Red: Did you all fly on one charter fight or was there two with students & chaperone’s on each?

DASH: There were two flights due to the fact that there were so many students going on the trip. However, we were broken up in different groups of STUDENTS…
chaperone’s were with BOTH groups at all times, looking out for ALL students.

Red: Describe Natalee Holloway. What made her popular? Why did people like her so much? Why would leaving with these guys been out of character?

DASH: Natalee is the sweetest person! She has worked VERY hard in school, is a respectable girl, and really is just a total doll! She does volunteer work frequently
and is a not only charitable, but a truly compassionate girl. She’s also been very involved in the school, not only participating in honor societies
(she was an officer for Mu Alpha Theta, the Math Honor Society) but also was a member of our school’s dance team, the Dorians. She is kind to all people and is
truly loved by the entire community. Any attacks on her character are totally unfounded… it is VERY out of character for her to get in a car with these
individuals, which is why this whole situation is such a shock. I’m unsure as to whether or not we know the full circumstances surrounding her “decision.” She’s a
genuinely good person, and I think that’s why so many people can identify with her and are so interested in her case… as Beth said, “She’s everyone’s daughter.”

Red: Describe what was explained to you as to what the roles of the chaperone’s was supposed to be?

DASH: I would probably say the better name for the “chaperone’s” would probably be “travel aids” or “adult volunteers” as their job only included helping keep up with passports and being around in case of a medical emergency. (This was explained at length at pre-trip meetings and also given to students and parents of the students in writing in advance.) However, I’d like to mention that they actually, due to their own good-heartedness, went above and beyond for us, making daily checks to ensure that we were all accounted for and enjoying the trip, keeping drug-dealers from bothering us, and also accompanying us on snorkel trips and other vacation activities. Any blame placed on these volunteers is completely unmerited. They did
their job, and then some!

Red: How many people shared a room at the Holiday Inn.

DASH: Different people had a different number of roommates, ranging from two to a room to four to a room. (Natalee had two other roommates, as did I.)

Red: Have you been questioned by the police or FBI? (If yes, you don’t have to say what they asked or what you said if you were told not to.)

DASH: Yes, the FBI has been very responsive. They never told me personally not to speak about the case, nor have the family. Obviously, if my discussing any of the trip was against the wishes of anyone close to the case, I would refrain from doing so.

Red: DASH is there anything else you would like to add?

Yes, Why did the students choose to go to Carlos & Charlie’s?
I feel that a lot of people have the wrong idea about Carlos and Charlie’s. It is not a seedy bar as some have assumed. In fact, it is a very tourist-oriented
place. I went there during the day with some friends and we bought things from the gift shop and took pictures in a photo cut-out. (That’s the standing board that has a picture on it and holes for you to stick your face through. They are common at many
tourist-friendly locations.) During the day, it is a friendly restaurant. At night, it’s not a “wild” party place, but it is a fun atmosphere in which you can dance and relax. Also, I’d like to mention that the reason we decided to go there in the first place
(some students had gone every night since arriving) was due to the fact that our bus driver who was acting as a pseudo-tour guide for us mentioned what a
tourist-friendly place it is and urged us to go.

Posted June 19, 2005 by
Natalee Holloway | 495 comments

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  • Comments

    495 Responses to “Interview With Our Own “DASH” on Aruba trip and Natalee Holloway, Part I”

    1. Hyscience on June 19th, 2005 1:56 pm

      What happened to Natalee?

      Speculation continues about Natalee – no one knows for sure what happened to her.

    2. Dawson on June 19th, 2005 2:05 pm

      I don’t mean to pry or be condescending, but if Natalee’s friends were in attendance with her at Carlos and Charlies, why, oh, why did they let her leave?

      I’ve been in this situation before with a friend and I blocked the way and got other people involved so my friend would not leave?

    3. Jerry on June 19th, 2005 2:05 pm

      So I guess Natallee was totally happy with where she was at in life and where she was headed, to college and her family?

    4. Lurker on June 19th, 2005 2:20 pm

      Well it has been posted on other blogs that Natalee’s friends were trying very hard to “protect her image,” and evidently that is true.

      In addition it appears that these kids are trying to protect their own images and those of the chaperones as well. Sorry, kid, but ONLY SEVEN ADULTS CANNOT KEEP TRACK OF 124 TEENS, even IF those chaperones are sober themselves. Also, contrary to what this girl says, EVERYONE ELSE says that C&C is “THE SLEAZIEST BAR ON THE ISLAND” and has a reputation as such.

      Color me skeptical, on those two points at least.

    5. From Birmingham on June 19th, 2005 2:24 pm

      I’d like to know why the parents of these young people sent their children to bars and casinos and gave them permission to drink.

      I just don’t get sending your child to a foriegn county and allowing them to be in such danger.

      It boggles the mind that such immoral choices were made by that many people.

    6. Nona on June 19th, 2005 3:00 pm

      Why do 7 people need to keep track of 124 adults when 2 parents can’t keep track of their 17 year old son?

    7. Selena on June 19th, 2005 3:04 pm

      check out posts from adults who vacationed in the Carribean and went to Carlos N’ Charlies PRE Natalee’s disappearence, they will give you an unbiased picture of the atmosphere, at all hours and times. One in particluar, from a man with two teens, aged 15 and 17, said his daughters did not want to return, They found a more family oriented restaurant that they were comfortable spending time in. Ladies Night and Best butt contests are not the times when you would expect to find children, accompanied with parents at that location. Also, the interview ith ” Ivan” friend of the Kaploes,describing it as the HOT ZONE, known for exstacy and cocaine. Being at C n’ C’s and not knowing in advance what the locals think about the reputation are severe disadvantages for anyone touring the island. They are led to beleive it is a fun party place, Fun shouldn’t end up being fatal…..

    8. Concerned on June 19th, 2005 3:13 pm

      Why blame? Let’s all learn something.

    9. loulou on June 19th, 2005 3:22 pm

      Softball questions directed at self appointed advocate for the Mountain Brook teens and “travel advisors” does nothing to advance the understanding for the situation.

    10. Concerned on June 19th, 2005 3:27 pm

      Critic, oh, critic…

    11. Lurker on June 19th, 2005 3:31 pm

      NONA wrote:

      “Why do 7 adults need to keep track of 124 adults when 2 parents can’t keep track of their 17 year old son?”

      First of all, 18 IS NOT LEGAL DRINKING AGE IN THE UNITED STATES, that’s why Aruba was chosen as the venue for this binge-drinking fest. So in that sense they are NOT adults.

      Secondly, Joran van der Slut is DUTCH. The Dutch culture is one of the most permissive and liberal on the planet. ANYTHING GOES!! So there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE in lifestyle between Dutch and Americans. In addition, Natalee’s own family described her as “naive,” hardly the type a rational, thinking person would send off on an overseas drinking junket without really being chaperoned. Van der Slut’s parents have never described him as “naive,” and he is hardly that.

      Finally, NATALEE IS A GIRL, and girls are more prone to becoming VICTIMS of rape and murder, especially pretty ones. Thanks to women’s lib crapola people seem to choose to overlook that nowadays. If you can’t see the differences there then you’re a hopeless case.

    12. Lurker on June 19th, 2005 3:33 pm

      Yeah, Critic, you’re right. No matter what kind of whitewashed mamby-pampy BS is thrown our way, let’s just all accept it unquestionably and give the girl a big round of applause.

    13. Lurker on June 19th, 2005 3:33 pm

      Sorry, that last one for was CONCERNED.

    14. Bham on June 19th, 2005 3:39 pm

      I would like to remind everyone on the board that the rumors you are hearing of Natalee being drunk and kissing and having sex with various whomevers ALL come from the detainees. The same guys who have changed their story over and over again. The same guys who possibly murdered her, had something to do with her murder or sold her off.

      I know it’s not what everyone want to hear because it isn’t a “good” story. However, the truth is Natalee DID NOT have a dark side. She IS a good girl and her friends do not need to “PROTECT” her reputation because her reputation is upstanding.

      Her friends did not “LET” Natalee leave drunk with strangers. Nataless had been drinking but was not the falling down drunk everyone wants to portray her as. Her last words were that she was going to the hotel with friends. The vander Sloot boy had been with the group for several days – was their own age and appeared to be from an upstanding family. Natalee was not running around drunk and fulfilling some kind of last night stand with a bunch of locals. I’m sorry if you need someone blame – Natalee is not it. Something horrible happened to her. The puclic would rather place blame on Natalee and the chaperones rather than the murderers, rapists or kidnappers. That is ludicrous.

      Everytime you open your front door, you could be murdered. Is this your fault or the murderer’s fault? Everytime you walk into and out of a parking lot, you could be murdered. Who’s fault is it? Is it your fault because you wore a halter top and shorts to the store or is it the murderer’s fault.

      We all want answers to this case. However, slandering a person or the chaperones to try and satisfy the need to place blame is not the answer. The people from Mountain Brook are not “Covering” up anything. That’s not the way this community works. There is nothing to cover up. Why not focus on the criminals here?


    15. Dee on June 19th, 2005 3:39 pm

      correction Lurker-VDS’s mum did say he spoke to her in a rather “naive” when he told her he was innocent

    16. Dee on June 19th, 2005 3:40 pm

      “naive way” that should read

    17. Kristin on June 19th, 2005 3:41 pm

      I have been following the Natalee Holloway case since she first dissapeared. My two friends and I went to Aruba for our graduation when we were 18. We had our friends mother and boyfriend with us to “check-in” with us throughout the trip. They stayed in a different part of the hotel, and we were on our own for most of the trip.
      We had a very similar experience happen to us that happened to Natalee. We went on the tattoo cruise, and I found a picture of us WITH the man they arrested who works on the boat. Very scary to look at the picture of him with his arms around us, smiling at the camera.
      The last night we were in Aruba we went to Carlos and Charlies. We had a man following us around buying us drinks and wanting to hook up with the three of us. We didn’t like him, and we just wanted him to go away. As the night came to an end, and of course after we were all heavily intoxicated, we found ourselves without any money left to take a taxi home. My friend had met Mr. Aruba, and some of his friends, and they offered us a ride. I did not want to go with them, but my friends pushed me to go. I was not about to be left alone at the bar, and I was not going to let my friends out of my sight. We got into a silver honda civic, and I was so frightened that something bad was going to happen to us. You always hear stories…and you never know.
      The men brought us back to our hotel after taking a scenic drive around Aruba…and after telling us that they waited for American girls to come to Aruba so that they could hook up with them. They actually GO to hotels and hang around the bars and pools, waiting to meet drunken girls.
      I was so happy to be back at our hotel….and to never have to speak to those men again. Watching this story on TV is like watching what could have happened to us. We were foolish, and drunk…and I am sad to say that we knew better, but still went along with the men anyways. I can only hope that Natalee is alive, and I think about her and her friends all the time. No one wants to go to Aruba and have something like this happen. Maybe now everyone will be a little wiser with their choices. I wish I had been.

    18. Claire on June 19th, 2005 3:41 pm

      well said Bham

    19. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 3:42 pm

      Lurker is right. We need to instill a moratorium on all travel to seedy tourist places where people are allowed to drink, smoke dope in private, have consensual sex, and party like it’s 1999. Those things never happen in the U.S. with our teenagers.

      The Dutch have a very permissive society. Scum. And they don’t have near the number of teenage pregancies or violent crimes that we have in the U.S. But in the U.S. we like to wrap ourselves in the flag, worship the bald eagle, and watch FOX. That’s all that matters… America it’s what you say that is important, not what you do.

    20. ztriggz on June 19th, 2005 3:43 pm

      why do people continue to refer to these grads as teens?
      many speak of them as if they were 14 yr olds out drinking
      and the adults lost track of them. It was prefectly legal for Natalee to be out on her own and legal for her to be drinking under the local laws. whether that was right or not was her choice, not yours…

      The facts indicate these boys lured an innocent girl by offering her a ride home,
      all his charm apparently worked. Drunk or not, the boys broke the rules not her.

      Stop blaming the volunteers, she made a bad mistake. And yes it could have happened anywhere. but… it didn’t
      The point is a possibly corrupt system of justice may have delayed finding her.
      Aruba has a long history of corruption and money laundering for south american drug cartels and the mafia… just go google on that you’ll be amazed on what you’ll find. or read here:

    21. Florida Boy on June 19th, 2005 3:45 pm


      Your snide cynicism is not helpful. You rail on a person who knows and defends Natalee and question her credibility because of gossip you read elsewhere? YOUR cedibility takes a big hit there.

      Second, you try to shift the blame of this tragedy to the chaperones and not the wrong-doers? Your hindsight analysis is neither helpful or enlightening. Don’t be such a cynic.

    22. gianna on June 19th, 2005 3:45 pm

      Lurker- Let us remember that these people are YOUNG ADULTS- not 15 year old teens .In other words, yes they are young ,but they are adults. Why is everyone trying to place blame on everything and everone else( i.e.-Aruba,the chaperones,her friends, carlos and Charlies,and the worst -blaming -Natalie).
      I have been to C and C’s and had great times there.It isnt a seedy dive bar at all !I have been to scarier places in NY(my home).Who is EVERYONE ELSE? Maybe you should stop basing your opinions on what EVERYONE ELSE says.People who do that and also judge other’s “image” should look at themselves and those close to them.

      Most of these “teens” will be going to college next year-doing God knows what with no chaperones ,(actually I am reffering to all 18 year old students),so why is everyone so quick to place blame and scrutinize the partying of the students in Aruba. I am a travel agent and I have heard about and see students all the time who are the same age going to Cancun-or Bahamas or Jamaica.They dont have anyone going with them.The fact that this annual trip ususally does have older adults going as volunteers,shows me that the parents do care and that these students are not wild whatsoever.I have also sold 18 year olds to a certain free-for all-resort in Jamaica that is well known for offering lots of various things(as seen on Jerry Springer)with wild partying etc.This didnt seem to be the case here with these young adults.Yes,they wanted to party too,as does anyone young,but it seems like they also wanted to go to see the soulfest,and because Aruba is an island of beauty,where I would have (as an agent)tried to sell to young adult students because it is safer than most islands. I have been told by those students that I have sent there that there wasnt enough nightlife.
      This is a very unfortunate and very,very rare happening for Aruba.The media has changed the image of Aruba from the island I know of as being 90% honeymooners /families/seniors /timeshare owners…with some partying available ,to a Hedonistic day and night party where anything goes.I have been to Aruba 5 times and was there on vacation the week of June 6th.The island is just as safe(if not safer because of the constant police patrolling) than always,and the Arubians have been very saddened, hurt and embarrassed by everything.They were just as gracious and helpful as always,too.Though I don’t know that I wouldve been if the situation was reversed.I would probably be bitter about people ripping apart my country.
      I am looking forward to going back to Aruba on my next vacation.I have been fortunate enough to have been to most of the Caribbean and Mexico and other counrties due to my job.I love a lot of places for differente reasons,but Aruba is by far my favorite.The more I go and know the people and the island,the more I love it.. I will eventually buy a timeshare in Aruba too,when I am not in this business anymore.
      Before this all happened it was not unheard of to hear people in the airport bragging and comparing their passport stamps of how many times they had been to Aruba.I have lost many repeat clients because after I send them to Aruba,they usually fall in love with the island,and buy a timeshare themselves.
      As I said I do travel alot ,so my love for Aruba isnt because it was the first place I have been.I also get annoyed hearing people judge the island and the people ,when they themselves have never been there.To do not get me wrong,I say that as a very proud American .I love the U.S. but am realistic enough to know that bad things happen everywhere. Oh ,and if we should Boycott Aruba as that morron” Dee” from the Alabama radio station wants,and others have stated ..then should we boycott our own lovely U.S.A. -who she believes is so much safer- because 2 young men were gunned down and just left on the street in St Thomas this week.After all St Thomas is a US territory..
      My heart goes out to all these victims and their families

    23. irishgal on June 19th, 2005 3:45 pm

      Over the past 11 months, I have been following many boards about Aruba. this started before my first trip. In the meantime I am planning my 4th trip.
      It’s funny that so many people NOW say how “SLEAZY” C&C’s is. I’ve never read a negative comment about C&C’s before this tragedy.

      The unexplainable usually equals to pointing fingers in the wrong direction!!!!

      I’m sure that if Natalee would have last been seen at a different place, people would try to downplay that place the same way.

      If she went missing after eating a hamburger at McD’s, would you boycott that too?

      you have people screamin boycott Aruba, Ban Aruba……..I’m sure if Aruba has the right strategies……they could do just as well without you americans.

      Now, I’ve read so many posts that looked like this

      ” How could a parent let a 18 y/o go to Aruba?”

      what is so wrong with that? In most countries, 18 is the legal age. you are considered an adult.

      Not in the sweet USA though! Oh no wait, you’re grown enough to go off to some strange country with the military but not old enough to go on vacation????

      How many unsolved crimes is there in the US? I’m sure WAY more than a handfull, so how can you critisize the way aruban police/authorities are handling this case?? Only because it is done differently than you are used to???

      If I was to go missing in MD/FL/CA or wherever. Would you let the police of my country come and take over? I’m sure you would NOT!

      When americans go missing in america, who do you blame then?????

      I think the only IMPORTANT thing here is that Natalee is found.

      Everyone has their own opinion about this, as do I! And you just read it!

    24. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 3:46 pm

      In the United States, 18 year olds NEVER take rides from attarctive opposite sex memebers that they meet at parties. Never happens. Statisticall impossible!!!! All 18 year olds call their mommy or daddy to pick them up. America is very safe mind you!!!

    25. Kristin on June 19th, 2005 3:49 pm

      I did not think that Carlos and Charlie’s was sleazy at all. No matter what kind of bar or club you go to, there will always be sleazy PEOPLE there. We have gone to many different Carlos and Charlies, especially the one in Cancun, Mexico. It’s a fun place to go, and the crowd is always dancing and having a good time. I don’t think Carlos and Charlie’s has anything to do with Natalee dissapearing…the bar did not make her dissapear….the people she left with did, and if they didn’t, they know what happened to her.

    26. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 3:54 pm

      Lurker: In the United States people have a coronary when they see Janet Jackson’s boob on t.v.. In holland it’s business as usual. In the United States people salivate when news is interrupted because of a high speed car chase or a hostage situation about to go bad. Awesome…blood….kick-ass ..USA!!! In Holland they consider loss of life a big deal. But that’s because they’re pussies, right? Killing, kicking ass, in your face…rock on=GOOD correct? Sex, permissive partying=BAD.. Shame on you!!!! You’re going to burn in hell!!!

    27. Kristin on June 19th, 2005 3:56 pm

      Let’s hope the FBI has the opportunity to get more involved. We’ll see results within a week, I guaruntee.

    28. Dani on June 19th, 2005 4:03 pm

      I went to Aurba 2 years ago with my family – I was 24 and my brother was 21. At night my brother and I would go to C&C and it is exactly as Dash described….a very touristy bar not a “one of the sleaziest bars on the island”. I have been to other islands and felt very safe when I was in Aruba. These kids were celebrating their graduation, drinking and having a good time. Hind sight 20/20 they probably would have made different choices, but the students, chaperones and Natalee are not to blame. It could happen to anyone …and that is why I think so many people feel so compelled to follow this case.
      God bless Natalee and her family.

    29. Red on June 19th, 2005 4:04 pm

      loulou Says:

      June 19th, 2005 at 3:22 pm e
      Softball questions directed at self appointed advocate for the Mountain Brook teens and “travel advisors” does nothing to advance the understanding for the situation.




      You are a perfect example of some people are never satisfied until you hear the answers you want to hear.

    30. Aun Esther on June 19th, 2005 4:06 pm

      Haaaa-le-LU-yah!!…..praaiise the Lord!

    31. Nona on June 19th, 2005 4:11 pm

      Lurker is Joran’s mommy and sorry she did a lousy job raising her child.

    32. tideroller on June 19th, 2005 4:16 pm

      Nona – Good for you! BTW, judging from the pictures it looks like she may be doing a lousy job of raising the younger brother (judging from his websites and photos) unless she does a turnabout.

    33. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 4:20 pm

      “judging from his pictures it looks like she may be doing a lousy job”…..yeah, whatever you there Judge Judy

    34. Nona on June 19th, 2005 4:23 pm

      One picture paints 1000 words, an art teacher should know that.

    35. tideroller on June 19th, 2005 4:24 pm

      Oh, lay off Guadalcanal. You have to make intelligent decisions in life, that’s part of life. Get a grip and use your common sense.

    36. Florida Boy on June 19th, 2005 4:24 pm


      Why be a chronic jackass? Are you trying to troll? There are other websites where you can rip america. This forum is not for that purpose. Take your misery elsewhere; the people here want to focus on a girl’s disappearance. Don’t forget to pick up your door prize, and thanks for playing.

    37. Kristin on June 19th, 2005 4:30 pm

      Where does everyone find the websites with Joran and his younger brother on them?

    38. grammar police on June 19th, 2005 4:31 pm

      The plural of chaperone is chaperones, not chaperone’s.

      Note the difference: “That is the chaperone’s camera. Have you seen the chaperones in matching shirts?”

      I’d just like to add I have never commented on grammar or spelling on a blog before because of the “anything goes” attitude prevalent among bloggers (and hey, typos happen to everyone) but this is something that is taught in elementary school and using it repeatedly in a serious interview makes you (and Americans) look uneducated.

    39. Peter on June 19th, 2005 4:37 pm

      It has been my question all along:

      What does it take to break a 17 year old suspect in Aruba?

      A candy bar?

      Seems to me that these cops are weak and too laid back. These punks know they’re guilty of Natalee’s disapperance and the cops know it, but they DON’T KNOW HOW TO GET IT OUT OF THEM. I would be very happy to see Aruba get boycotted. Let their American dollars dry up and perhaps that will give the cops a little incentive to develop a killer instinct.

    40. Peter on June 19th, 2005 4:41 pm

      I just heard on the news that it was the Holloways, after arriving in a strange country (Aruba) and performing their own investigation, that came up with the names of the three suspects – NOT THE POLICE. This brings up images of the Keystone Cops in action. Bumping into one another. From there, the cops started their “investigation”. Only to let the three suspects go, to be arrested again later.

      Also, that the reason the Aruban cops don’t let the FBI have a more active role is, you guessed it – PRIDE. Disgusting, stupid and incompetent.

      I think we all have to ask the question, based on these events – Would you allow your daughter to take a trip to Aruba. Think before you answer.

    41. Phil on June 19th, 2005 4:57 pm

      I have read so much over the past two weeks…I am sure DASH has offered us honest answers for her point of view…the fact that perhaps 18 year olds are should not be allowed to go on an obvious drinking and gambling graduation reward that probably includes sex with whom ever they please is the issue. Not if the “travel assistants” where with them “every step of the way” or if C&C is seedy or a step up from Friendly Ice Cream or if Natalee was legally drunk or just had a buzz or had ginger ale alnight.

      The fact is many parents consider such a trip something teens can handle…that this type of behavior is responsible and good…in America it has come to pass that our society believes that 21 should be the drinking age…why are we so tough on drunk driving??? Yet the Mt Brook parents and the travel assistants believe that these laws are just too tough and “no fun”…

      I have asked over two dozen parents if they ever when on such a trip or if they would let their children go on one…I am have not heard a yes answer yet…so the belief that all teens are old enough to handle this stuff) or it what I did) is not everywhere.

      The fact is fewer people smoke because you can die from it

      The fact is fewer people drink and drive because you can die from it

      The fact is fewer people have unprotected sex because you can die from it

      Obviously we all do things to reduce our risks of death…we don’t say “Oh, I could get hit by a MACK truck so why not take a risk and have some fun”

      I believe that many of us here wish Natalee, her friends and travel assistants and parents where more safe (this could have been prevent with more rules and restrictions on the grads activities)…many of us would have been…than again many here believe the fun vs. risk ratio is worth it…You decide. It does make anyone of us better or worst but it may help the next person.

      BTW grads are referred to as teens because most graduate at eighTEEN year old.

    42. jahazafat on June 19th, 2005 4:57 pm

      Does anyone know if this trip was a promtional venture where there were free trips for students or chaparones that signed others up? Was it booked through an agency of some sort that specializes in student tours? Also does anyone know if the Tattoo boat has any lifeboats attached to it?

    43. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:11 pm

      I wonder if these young guys are involved in a sex traffic cartel that have been going on for long time and it’s covered up by the Arubian gov because hi-political and money people are involved.
      If the above is true then I believe there is sheme in Aruba, which involves a few people.
      The cute Dutch guy goes around and try to find American naive young girls and then he trys to seduce them , even meeting her friends and getting closer to her friends.Then she is taken out to CC bar, together with some so-called Dutch guy’s friends, and given her drinks and maybe some sort of drugs as Exetesy. Maybe Then when she is “ready” she is taken for a ride, but because she is so drunk or what ever, she can’t do anything agianst them
      She is put on a boat and sent to one of those poor country as sex slave.
      Then the gov takes into custody the wrong people and detained them for af ew days, giving the criminal time to clean up any evidence. Nobody expected such a implication from the media and that’s why the gov had to arrest the 3 young guys.They have to put off everything and pretend that do “their best” to get the clues out of these 2 guys’ mouths, so Natalee gets to another country, so they want to make sure nobody can go after her. If no body wis found, these guys might walk out with no charge accoring to the Dutch law, no?
      I know it’s a sad imaginative (now ) story, but I have the feeling that this is what’s been going on Aruba.I wonder if there are other parents in the US who reported their child missing, besides the ’98 girl. I also heard that the sex trafficants adopt non-US young women or the ones with no relatives in the Us , so nobody can claim them and start a search.
      Something I don’t understand about the other girl from ’98 disappearance is that how she vanished from the boat and nobody started search the boat right away?
      Was there any kind of coverege about this girl?Anyone knows?

    44. Lurker on June 19th, 2005 5:13 pm

      Wow, it looks like I struck a nerve. Obviously some of you can’t handle THE TRUTH. Well that’s not MY problem.

      Jahazafat, Jody Bearman (not certain of surname), a Twitty family friend, made the trip arrangements. That may explain why Natalee’s mother/family are so loathe to criticize the trip DISorganization in any way.

      PROFESSIONALS who have been interviewed ALL say there should have been AT LEAST 1 CHAPERONE FOR EVERY 10 KIDS. Even MARK KLAAS has publicly CRITICIZED this “trip” for its ridiculous disorganization.

      Whenever you have LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE TRAVELING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY headcounts and bedchecks should be conducted to make sure everyone is accounted for. Clearly that is just COMMON SENSE.

      Natalie’s OWN FAMILY described her as “naive,” which is hardly the type of child you send on an unsupervised overseas binge-drinking fest. It’s obvious, based on what transpired, that she was NOT mature enough to handle the trip.

      The posters at give Ms. Holloway-Twitty a grade of “F” for common sense, and I concur.

    45. Brett on June 19th, 2005 5:14 pm

      The high school has organized this trip on many occasions for their students.

    46. harp on June 19th, 2005 5:15 pm

      Big question: why aren’t the chaperone’s and the group of students quested as official wittnes in this case? O’reil said the FBI did not prohibit them to talk.

    47. Aunt Esther on June 19th, 2005 5:16 pm

      Preach on …brother/sister lurker!!!

    48. Dianne Summer on June 19th, 2005 5:16 pm

      Who cares what kind of condition Natalee was in… drunk or sober we know she made a wrong decision to go with the boys….She was heading back to the hotel and had plans on returning home. Something stopped those plans. She was held against her will. Those boys were wrong no matter how you look at it.

      My heart goes out to Natalee’s family I pray she is alive and they are able to rescue her. My heart also goes out to the young boys parents. I am sure they did not plan on raising a child to be involved in something as frightening as all this. I am seeing more and more young people getting involved in horrible things these days. Once upon a time they were a bunch of mouthy punks. Now they are getting involved in more serious crimes.

    49. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:18 pm

      “what is so wrong with that? In most countries, 18 is the legal age. you are considered an adult.”


      I don’t know if you are Irish and live in the Uk or in the US, but American girls are very naive, and they stay like that until later, close to their 30′s to my opinion.
      Perhaps these guys knew that . The general impression around the world about American is that they are childish and naive, which I agree with, in despite of the fact many girls start sexual life at early ages such as 12-13 and they consider themselves mature.

    50. Florida Boy on June 19th, 2005 5:24 pm


      Your theories are not the truth, no matter how much you spew them out. I give much more credence to the first person accounts than to your trashings of the Mountain Brook folks. The Truth is that Natalee was the victim of a crime based upon what little evidence has been published. Can you deal with that or must you continue to trash a crime victim and her friends?

    51. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 5:24 pm

      Sex at 12-23 ????? You have got to be putting me on! I don’t think American girls are necessarily naive but they do have a procilivity to want to be loved and finding the right one at any cost.

    52. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:28 pm

      “Whenever you have LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE TRAVELING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY headcounts and bedchecks should be conducted to make sure everyone is accounted for. Clearly that is just COMMON SENSE”


      Even so, it could have happened anyway. Just think about the other grirl from the ’98 disappearance. She was with her parents and vanished, but we, or at least I myself, don’t know exactly how, because what I read so far about her sounds kind of weird.

    53. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:31 pm

      I meant sex at 12-13, sorry for the typo

    54. Dianne Summer on June 19th, 2005 5:35 pm

      Please stop arguing…. this is such a tragedy.

    55. NoBlogFan on June 19th, 2005 5:39 pm

      Loulou – I agree with you 100%. These were SOFTBALL questions that yielded no information, just “exclusive content” for this website. Anyone who has ever been to a Carlos & Charlies will know that it’s not the place that this kid is describing. There was no challenge on any of the answers. This interview is no better than the “friend of Joran’s” interview on RiehlWord – both softball pieces of fluff.

      Also disturbing is how the guy that did the interview jumped down your throat for pointing this out to him. “Its my ball and I’m going home – if you don’t like it, leave” was his reply as I read it. He also posted the same thing yesterday when someone had the NERVE to suggest that the message board should be more closely monitored to remove items that weren’t appropriate in a ‘breaking news rumors’ category. His reply was something like, “never question the website management; otherwise go away.”

      And so after having been on this site and several others the last few days looking for information, the conclusion I have made is this:

      These blogs are useless for *real* information. They’re ENTERTAINMENT sites where make-believe sleuths can intermingle fact, fiction and fantasy and pretend to be “helpful.” Where the people behind the websites – not journalists, often immature frustrated people -seek out their 15 minutes of attention.

      Can anyone point to ONE fact that has been presented in a blog that wasn’t available to the press? One lead that was investigated because of “exclusive” information from a blog? I can’t.

      So, enjoy the infotainment – I am outta here permanently. I’ll still visit blogs from people who are journalists, and not children who get red-faced and angry when presented with constructive criticism … or valid criticism about a lamess interview they did. “Dash’s” 15 minutes are up. There’s no information there. Give it a rest, and take your ball if you like, I’ve left the playground..

    56. laura elaina on June 19th, 2005 5:39 pm

      I think girls in general are naive at her age especially living in Mountain Brook where there is no violent crime and people trust one another. But look at the number of young women that Ted Bundy murdered. He was able to lure lure them into his car because he was a nice looking guy who women trusted. My daughter went to the University of Alabama and during her orientation, the girls were talked to by the campus police concerning date rape drugs and being cautious when out at parties, etc. Maybe we need to start having this conversation with girls at a younger age.

    57. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:42 pm

      Somebody asked for Joran’s photos link.

    58. Nona on June 19th, 2005 5:44 pm

      Why did Joran’s parents fail to check his bed? Because he was born with a penis is no excuse.

    59. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:52 pm

      Yes, Laura it’s amazing how some people are so good at pretending being a nice person.
      And maybe I should say that not just her naivity had a role. Some people seem to be very trusty, but they are just good actors.
      I’m trying to put myself in her shoes, but at an older age, like early med 20′s. Maybe I would trust a guy like Joran, good looking, good family, good student, but I still won’t get in a car with him , or go alone somewhere with him, either in a foreign country or in the US.

    60. Claire on June 19th, 2005 5:53 pm

      whay does everyone say he is good-looking?? he’s very unattractive

    61. Jerry on June 19th, 2005 5:54 pm


      (In Holland a loss of life is big deal) I guess in Holland drugging , kidnapping,rape and murder is a way of life.

    62. Claire on June 19th, 2005 5:55 pm

      more joran photos to prove his ugliness

    63. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:55 pm

      “Why did Joran’s parents fail to check his bed? Because he was born with a penis is no excuse”


      Because he a rich and spoiled kid.He can do anything he wants to, under his parents “closed” eyes.Obviously he was allowed to get weird in many ways, drinking, girls, grugs etc

    64. Nona on June 19th, 2005 5:56 pm

      Has it dawned on anyone that maybe Natalee did not go with Joran willingly? No one said she did except the liars that are in jail. Unless you want to believe the rumors being posting by the Joran defenders.

      Stop blaming the victim and blame the kidnappers and probable murderers.

    65. Jerry on June 19th, 2005 5:57 pm

      Im with you nona 100%

    66. traveller on June 19th, 2005 5:58 pm

      “(In Holland a loss of life is big deal) I guess in Holland drugging , kidnapping,rape and murder is a way of life”


      Partially, I don’t agrre with you. Holland is not an unsafe country, but drugging and prostitution is a way of life. They grow Marihuana as a house plant. no joke

    67. Anon on June 19th, 2005 6:00 pm

      Yes, moron looking, pug-nosed, not handsome at all, ptob just knows “how to talk to the ladies”

    68. HannieC on June 19th, 2005 6:07 pm


      Drugging and prostitution is not a way of life in Holland either, yes it`s true that prostitution is legal and softdrugs also but that doesn`t mean that`s a way of life for all Dutch people!! ;)

    69. Florida Boy on June 19th, 2005 6:09 pm

      It does appear that JVDS is an insecure, spoiled, thug wannabe from all that we have heard. Whether he is attractive is a matter of opinion, but I agree with Claire…wouldn’t get alot of attention from the ladies over here.

      It is also fairly clear that he is a criminal. His inconsistent stories are evidence of that, plus the fact that he was one of the last to be seen with Natalee.

      He has apparently lived a sheltered and coddled existence on the island, and pretty much ran wild. Now the thug wannabe may have to live the next several years with inmates who will be happy to show him the joys of the thug life.

    70. Red on June 19th, 2005 6:09 pm

      No Blog Fan

      Gee doesn’t that say it all.

      No one forces you to do anything. Part 1 of an interview means just that. Part II, more questions and follow up. I am a little iffy on the Carlos & Charlie answer. People have not come forward probably because they don’t want to have to deal with the negative backlash as some have done.

      The fact is that many of these teens have not gone to the press; however, they have come on the blogs. If you cannot accept that, oh well.

      We however have been contacted by MSM producers and have been asked how we have broken stories before them and who was our sources. I am sorry if you do not consider that journalism. FHI: there are still people out there that do not know all the facts and have heard rumor & misinformation.

      No one said this was an exclusive, what we said was an exclusive was the fact that AL teens were on this site commenting and answering questions of readers long before they ever went on TV. Is it really 15 minutes of fame to put forth their opinion on their friend.

      To a teen, I am sure all the AL teens would give up any so-called 15 minutes in order to have Natalee back.

    71. Gamebred on June 19th, 2005 6:11 pm

      Assertive “not so good looking” guys often get all play with the honeys. Woman like what they hear; they want to be sweet talked and told how pretty and special they are. Joran is tall(6′ 4″), athletic, and he probably has charm. Plus an accent and you’re in with the girls.

    72. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 6:17 pm

      There’s just as much drugging and prostitution in the U.S……perhaps more. Stop acting like goody two shoes Jerry!

    73. Concerned on June 19th, 2005 6:18 pm

      Are we off track? Judgment is only a narrow perspective. Something has gone wrong. We are working with limited information. Let’s hope for the best here.
      To me, it’s a good vs. evil scenerio. If not, it’s an accident vs. fear. God is the caretaker, in any event.
      Be cynical; be critical. Be hopeful no matter what. Let’s pray we all deal with the outcome of this situation.
      I am a mother of an 18 year old who is about to vacation in the Caribbean. What was I thinking when I said “yes”? Now I am booked to go with her. I can’t prevent evil but I’ll be with her if she needs me. I can only do what I can, with the grace of God.

    74. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:18 pm

      hi….can’t believe we’re still discussing this case. I thought it’d be solved by now!

    75. traveller on June 19th, 2005 6:19 pm

      “Drugging and prostitution is not a way of life in Holland either, yes it`s true that “prostitution is legal and softdrugs also but that doesn`t mean that`s a way of life for all Dutch people!!”


      Perhaps you are Dutch….
      I’ve been to Holland and read a lot about it, and I noticed taht Marihuana plant was on each bot house. I also saw many people smoking pot. Of course not everybody in Holland does drugs (I am refering to Marihuana), but many, and I was trying to generalize, though.

    76. jahazafat on June 19th, 2005 6:20 pm

      Hi Lurker, I wonder if Jody or her kid got the free trip, usually somebody does.

      It’s doubtful Natalee was kidnapped into an established sex slave cartel of but the possibility that the sick Fu*k Joran and his peers wished to establish such a venture does seem remotely possible. As in they had a plan to drug and kidnap a naive probably drunk young girl and zeroed in on Natalee. They may have been unfamilar with the dosage for the drugging and ODed her? Is it a homemade drug and how stable is it? One of the brothers did call himself a pimp on his own website. I wonder if the disc jockey is the drug dealer? Wasn’t there an earlier arrest for who knows what that may have been a drug dealer? If Holland is so lax with drugs what’s the scoop on Aruba. It’s a tragic situation and hopefullly graduates will be more careful in the future and underage teenage drinking will be addressed as the national health crisi it is.

    77. Arubaplayer on June 19th, 2005 6:21 pm

      Florida boy…not a lot of attention from the ladies over where you are?????? Please!!!
      You should see some of the ugly sleazeballs that hook up with nice American looking girls in Aruba. What happens here stays here attitude. I’m even disgusted at what I’ve seen in the past.

    78. NoBlogFan on June 19th, 2005 6:28 pm

      Red -

      Sorry but your reply demonstrates your profound lack of understanding of “journalism.”

      What story have *you* broken? I think you have difficulty distinguishing between posting text someone has emailed to you and “investigative reporting” or “journalism.”

      The fact is you have not broken any story. You have not advanced the investigation. Your interview revealed nothing and was no more informative than the “Joran friend” interview.

      What am I still doing here? Oh look, Natalee’s stepfather is on the television calling Joran’s father an arrogant, obnoxious sleazeball. Looks like you were “scooped.”

      I will take your advice made to another poster here and say “buh bye” – this is nothing more than a gossip chatroom.

      BTW, that “I’m sure the kids would give up their 15 minutes to have their friend back” – lame, lame, lame… response to criticism over your softball interview and the fact that this kid has nothing newsworthy to share –

      You’d be better off making your point with facts versus emotional sanctimony.

    79. HannieC on June 19th, 2005 6:29 pm

      Yes traveller I`m Dutch and you are “alowed” to have 3 marihuana plants in your own house for your own use, that`s true. And it is also true there are a lot of people smoking pot because it is legal here. But it isn`t so that on every corner in Holland you see them smoking pot or something or prostitute themselves.
      And we are a very liberal country that`s true. In general we think ‘Live and let live’.
      But that doesn`t mean we are tolerate crimes here.

    80. Nona on June 19th, 2005 6:30 pm

      Florida is full of tourists also. Many women on vacation so it’s not too much different. Joran is Ok looking enough. But what was shown on his website and his attitude towards Beth Holloway shows an attitude of arrogance and obnoxiousnees that would not bode well in the US. Without his daddy to help him get into the bars, he would not be very happy here. Without mommy to help fix his grades at the private school he would seriously have educational problems and with his arrogant attitude he would have social troubles.

    81. traveller on June 19th, 2005 6:32 pm


      DON”T BE SCARED. Just do your vacation as nothing bad happened.
      If you leave US with crimes in your head, it will be worse when you get there.
      One of the problems I see in these small island is that the gov might be corrupted and police doesn’t know what to do in cases like NH one.
      I’ve travelleld a lot ,but never been on an Island.
      i.e I’ve been to Mexico and I heard all kind of weird things about it, but when I got there, it seemed to be OK. Touristic area are quiet safe, but I would never drive from Cancun to the otehr side of the country, though.

    82. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:33 pm

      everyone knows the Netherlands is a GODLESS wasteland

    83. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:35 pm

      to CONCERNED……even if Natalee’s mom had gone WITH her to Aruba, would she be with her at C&C’s that night? would she be following her around? i think not. I don’t think you should let your daughter GO to any island!

    84. PA MOM on June 19th, 2005 6:37 pm

      Goodbye NoBlogFan. Go watch CNN.
      Red – I’ve been reading this site for the past 10+ days – I will thank you for allowing others to post their insights, valuable or not. It is an outlet.
      Thank you.

    85. HannieC on June 19th, 2005 6:37 pm

      Yes you would problably know that since you were there so many times right scaredshitless?? :)

    86. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:38 pm

      to Hannie: my husband’s family’s Norwegian & they say Holland is a godless, drug-filled haven for the debauchery-hungry

    87. traveller on June 19th, 2005 6:38 pm


      I knew that and I wasn’t trying to blame on anything about Holland.I have a good impression about Holland, though and I’ve always asked myself if the prostitution and drugs would be legalized in the US, it would be less crime.I haven’t found an answer yet, but here in the US people are different. To my opinion they have to be banned form doing many things, because otherwise it will be worse.In Europe people don’t thing about crime or don’t comit crimes as they do in the US.I ahven’t heard about a husband to kill his pregnent wife like Peterson, or another one killed his wife because he didn’t like the food, or because cheating.

    88. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:40 pm

      Yes of course the USA has its share of crime & people who murder wives, etc. But we don’t CONDONE IT! Holland ALLOWS people to smoke pot, have sex in the public square and lead a complete “sodom and gommorah” existence! They’re a bunch of pigs

    89. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 6:40 pm

      Don’t worry scaredpoopster….the Dutch still love you. They’re not as judgemental and narrow-minded as you and your cronies. They’re tolerant because they respect diversity.

    90. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:41 pm

      to Guadalcanal: well if you raise your kids with “anything goes”, i’m sure your kids will turn out awful….such is your definition of “tolerance”

    91. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:41 pm

      I have a definition for people who believe in tolerating ALL FORMS OF DEVIAN T BEHAVIOR: they are not parents!

    92. leopardqueen on June 19th, 2005 6:43 pm

      I agree, Scared! You’re right on!

    93. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 6:45 pm

      Scared shitless: America allows alcohol, which causes more misery, violence, and death than all drugs combined. This is a statistical fact!!!! But because it’s legal America is just blessed by God right???? Exactly Also, I want an example(documented) of people having sex in publicin Holland. Or did you hear that through the grapevine from unle Bob or something? Wake up and smell the coffee!!!!

    94. HannieC on June 19th, 2005 6:46 pm

      Norway isn`t Holland ,scared!! I`m born here and it isn`t near “godless”
      We call it ‘liberal’. And so is every country different thank god! We have to respect each other more I think instead of pointing fingers on what is good or not good about anyone`s country or people!!

      Traveller, these sort of things happen here also although they are rare. And i also think that just because of there are a lot of things legal here there is`nt as much crime
      as in some other countries to the effect of pot or something.

    95. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:47 pm

      Everyone knows Holland is a godless, debauchery-filled nation. EVERYONE I talk to feels the same way….I’m talking about walking down the street & seeing sex acts performed behind glass! And I bet you don’t have children! You sound like an irresponsible loser


    96. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:48 pm

      Hannie….you’re probably godless yourself so how would you recognize anything but godlessness? You can’t tell what is sin from righteousness because you’ve probably grown up in a decadent culture

    97. Gamebred on June 19th, 2005 6:49 pm

      Scared shitless must be a closet sodomite

    98. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:50 pm

      Getting back to Natalee….i can’t believe Aruban cops haven’t figured this thing out yet. What a bunch of dumbbells.

    99. traveller on June 19th, 2005 6:51 pm


      Isn’t that exactly who the rich kids are in the US too? Look at paris Hilton and others.
      They might not look arogant on TV, because theyw ant to hide it, but in reality they are like Joran. Americans VIP’s have to look “clean” on TV, that’s all. Just look on the Internet and see some pic’s or videos about Paris Hilton.
      I am trying to side with Joran, but his behaviour is typical to a son of a rich and influenceable person, anywher in the world.
      I agree with you about the grades.

    100. scaredshitless on June 19th, 2005 6:52 pm

      Joran is the result of the Dutch “liberal” way of thinking: anything goes! No rules! No such thing as sin because we must feed our OWN ego’s and desires without caring for anyone else

    101. HannieC on June 19th, 2005 6:52 pm

      Thanks for your opinion ;) come to visit me i would say then you can see for yourself how ‘godless’ and decadent I and the rest of Holland is. I think you have a word for it
      “hearsay” or isn`t it??!

    102. traveller on June 19th, 2005 6:55 pm

      If they are corrupted, they won’t do it soon.
      I believe there is corruption over there in Aruba, they make money off of that, besides tourism.

    103. traveller on June 19th, 2005 6:56 pm

      “I am trying to side with Joran” should read I’m NOT trying…

    104. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 6:57 pm

      Scared shitless will never travel to Holland. Too scared to travel out of comfort zone!!! But relies on gossip and claims to be a Christian…….whoop tee doooo??!?!?!

    105. Red on June 19th, 2005 6:57 pm

      No Blog Fan

      You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Personally, if you think what you do? Why are you here? You must have something better to do.

      I guess you know better. I guess those talks with producers on sourcing and info gathering never occured. If you hate this so much why do you stay?

    106. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 6:58 pm

      Please provide PROOF of corruption

    107. Peter on June 19th, 2005 7:00 pm


    108. traveller on June 19th, 2005 7:02 pm


      that’s very hard to prove, if not impossibil. Even for FBI would be hard, but they did proved corraption in many countries, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to go away.

    109. jahazafat on June 19th, 2005 7:03 pm

      Was Aruba ever a penal colony for the Netherlands like Australia was to England? Any one know why Joran’s family emigrated?

    110. traveller on June 19th, 2005 7:05 pm


      Majority of Europeans are liberal, perhaps that’s why they are not so naive and trusty as Americans…just think about that…

    111. Guadalcanal on June 19th, 2005 7:06 pm

      I think the Aruban cops just have ZERO experience dealing with these cases, somewhat inept, but I don’t think that there’s a sinister corrupt cover up plot going on

    112. JL on June 19th, 2005 7:09 pm

      Wow, Great interview, very informative. Glade to hear Carlos & Charlie’s isn’t
      a cheesy nite club, where aggressive local guy’s go to prey on drunk tourist.
      I’m also very happy to hear that her friends would never let Natalee leave with
      3 strange man.

      I guess if it wasn’t for these two facts, Natlaee wouldn’t be missing
      is that right???? b/c this is where I become confused

    113. traveller on June 19th, 2005 7:10 pm

      “Yes of course the USA has its share of crime & people who murder wives, etc. But we don’t CONDONE IT! Holland ALLOWS people to smoke pot, have sex in the public square and lead a complete “sodom and gommorah” existence!”

      Those are 2 different things, which I don’t agree with any, but I believe crime is worse then anything else.

    114. jahazafat on June 19th, 2005 7:12 pm

      Aruba is similar in population to Boulder, Colorado; home of one of the US’s best unsloved murders. Both LE agencies seem to specialize in doing nothing.

    115. traveller on June 19th, 2005 7:12 pm

      jahazafat Says:

      Was Aruba ever a penal colony for the Netherlands like Australia was to England? Any one know why Joran’s family emigrated? >>>

      I’m not sure if they actually imigrated to Aruba.They shouldn’t, since Aruba is part of the Netherlands. Did you hear anywhere that they imigrated?

    116. NorthEast on June 19th, 2005 7:14 pm

      Want to first start off by saying, My thoughts and prayers go out to Natalee as well as her family. I have read much about this case over the past few weeks and hope Natalee is found alive. My comments today are regarding the way Aruba and some of it’s attractions are being depicted. I am in my early thirties and since the age of 19 have been to Aruba five times. I have been to the island as a 19 year old naive partier, on a break from work in my late twenties looking for relaxation, and with my husband for a romantic/fun honeymoon getaway. I have visited most of the spots on the island that have been discussed on television. I have always spoke highly of the island focusing on the beautiful weather and beaches, the fun day and nightlife, the safety, and most importantly the people. It bothers me that this one, or a handful of instances encourages the media and others to speak poorly of this island. Especially, versus other islands in the Caribbean, Aruba is top notch. Yes, I have seen drugs on the island, but never prostitution. I have also seen men and women hanging around nightspots looking for a good time, drinking, dancing, and being crazy. I ask how is this any different from the U.S.? If something like this happened in NY, Boston, LA., LV, we would blame drinking, drugs, and suspects, not a piece of land. Before September 11th, I had a desire and passion to travel the World. With a fear that many countries and areas around the world dislike Americans, I have always felt comfort in visiting the island of Aruba. I am not sure the other 71,996 Arubans that live on the island deserve to brought down with ship.

    117. Gamebred on June 19th, 2005 7:15 pm

      Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Henry Lee Lucas, David Berkowitz, Oscar Ray Bolin, Richard Ramirez. Just a sample of our homebred killers who’ve done a number on our fellow citizens. Focus on finding Natalee and stop blaming the Dutch, Chinese, Pakistani, Americans. Crime happens everywhere, even in conservative countries

    118. traveller on June 19th, 2005 7:16 pm


      I read a letter from the International police something …to the cops of Aruba and they said they were very competend .They knew that because the Aruba cops came to NJ for a seminar or something like that. I can’t rememeber where I saw that letetr, but I if I find it I’ll post the link.

    119. Peter on June 19th, 2005 7:18 pm


    120. Jeff Dowder on June 19th, 2005 7:25 pm

      Good one gamebred….it doesn’t matter if you’re black, white, dutch or pakistani..there’s only one thing that matters…the punani!

    121. traveller on June 19th, 2005 7:27 pm


      I agree with you.The perception from the eyes of someone who is not now in Aruba or has never been there, might be wrong. Watching TV made be a little skeptical about Aruba, even if I love to travel too. I believe that Aruba is a nice island, but if there is corruption over there, the average tourist won’t be able to see it.

    122. Matt on June 19th, 2005 7:44 pm

      This whole scenario disturbs me deeply. I’m a Birmingham-area native, so this hits pretty close to home for me.

      As I see it, Natalee’s motivations are irrelevant really. She’s an 18 year old girl; of course there’s going to be some naivete present. As far as the Van der Sloot kid, he’s a tall, seemingly athletic young male from a rich family. Regardless of your opinion on his attractiveness, it seems fairly obvious that there was *some* reason this kid was hanging around, and I can find it plausible that there was some sort of fling going on.

      But again, this is irrelevant speculation. What matters at this point is finding out what exactly happened, and you can believe that Joran and the two guys with him damn sure know. They’ve already lied to the police, and based on other things I’ve seen in the news (one of Natalee’s male friends nearly getting into a fight with Joran, another American woman recognizing one of the suspects, etc), you can bet money that they’re the crux of the issue here. Regardless of whether they were directly involved, they do know something.

    123. jahazafat on June 19th, 2005 7:49 pm

      Perhaps this was a set up by a neighboring island for a bigger share of the tourist dollar?

    124. Paulo Esquire on June 19th, 2005 7:57 pm

      Thank goodness for the insightful comments made by PA Mom. Well done indeed and with good form at that! Kudos PA Mom.


      You folks are providing a wonderful service here. If I knew how to set up a blog I certainly don’t think I could run it as successfully, moreover, as professionally as you do. Please, above all things, just remember that NoBlogFan is the kind of unhappy person who strives to destroy anything that is good.

      For this person to come to this place and sling mud, only to end by saying he’s leaving the ballpark, then come back and write utter nonsense is just plain bad form. The person simply has no journalistic integrity whatsoever. Furthermore, I feel he has no sense of dignity or integrity at all. I see this person as one of those people who interrupt others constantly, probably the sort who barges into chat rooms and writes obsene comments and runs. Most of all, unbeknownst to him, he is as a matter of fact doing the very thing he is complaining about.

      As for me…it’s all about Natalee. Thank you for getting the sources you were able to interview. Thank you for taking your own time to transcribe and publish it. Too many people want to sling mud, swear, call other folks names, and want to start a fight for what? I am sure I will never understand. This much I do know: It takes time and money and concern to have empathy and the willingness to reach out and provide a service for all to rant, vent, or whatever.

      Just one last thing for everyone: It is quite all right to be an amateur sleuth, a little bit of Columbo, CSI, Steve Garrett, and 5-O at the same time. At times I wonder how many leads our “little investigative team” has generated for others involved in finding out what happened to Natalee. We indeed may contribute to the health and support of the Holloway/Twitty clans.

    125. SteveDinMD on June 19th, 2005 7:59 pm


      No worries, NoBlogFan is actually Dan Rather, still smarting in the aftermath of being definitively outed on the blogosphere as a shameless peddler of provably forged documents in furtherance of his political agenda. Yep, now THAT was good, old-fashioned “journalism.”

    126. Phil on June 19th, 2005 8:19 pm

      Are the Aruban police getting anywhere? Day 21…lots of smoke but no fire. I am worried that all these interviews are so when they come up with nothing, they can say we did all we could…no one was above the law (but we do give special people the opportunity to destory the evidence.

      Treating the USA/FBI so poorly (as reported on Fox yesterday and today) seem like a major mistake…if they cannot solve this case…it will never never be forgotten. Everyone will always wonder if Natalee could have been found alive if the FBI was allowed to help…

      Oh…I forgot letting the FBI in would prevent them for covering up for their friends.

      How many more days do they continue while the US tourist stop coming to Aruba. Not because of this crime but because of the cover-up. The fact that the “boys” have lied (as stories continue to change) means they know something…but they also know enough not to give up Natalee…then they go free.

      Can they be charged immediately for giving false statements in a criminal case???
      How many years is that??? Do something that truly means they care…not alot of talk and no results.

    127. Goofy on June 19th, 2005 8:51 pm

      The butler did it.

    128. southernlurker on June 19th, 2005 9:06 pm

      The high school DOES NOT/DID NOT sponsor the trip. Each year a parent(s) get the trip together for the seniors – the ones that want to go, not even half of the graduating class.

      We have not given up hope on Natalee and refuse to listen to gossip and rumors from people who don’t live here.

    129. Anonymous on June 19th, 2005 9:50 pm

      In response to one blog, Natalee’s family has never said that she was “naive.” Natalee has toured both Europe and Canada…it’s not like this was her first time out of the country. In fact, her aunt has said repeatedly that she is not naive.

      Additionally, “Dash” reported misinformation. Natalee had 3 roomates on the trip.

      Also, people are quick to point out “carlos n’ charlies” as a seedy place. This is not the first year that Mtn. Brook has gone to Aruba for senior trips…every senior trip before had been there almost religiously every night with no run ins with drugs or shady characters. Additionally, while there, not one student came across any kind of person doing drugs, nor were there shady characters.

      Furthermore, I understand the interest everyone has in the case, but please be understanding to those of us in which this is not just another missing person on television, but an actual friend and family member. Respect the wishes of the people that this actually affects and STOP BLAMING THE CHAPERONES. Not only has her own mother said it, but also the other parents of the students that went, and also the students themselves, that this is not the chaperones’ fault in any way shape or form. The media and public have become almost obsessed with finding blame in other people, as that is the culture in which we live. I cannot understand why all these people are crying out blame when the people that will be forever affected by Natalee’s disappearance have to repeatedly exhaust themselves by saying that the only blame needs to be put on the three boys in custody.

      I’d like to end by saying please do not post comments if you do not know what you are talking about. Negativity posted only hurts the family and friends more, when all they need right now is prayer and support from the community.

    130. dee on June 19th, 2005 10:27 pm

      It sickens me that the first two people arrested werre the two innocent black guys. Talk about racial profiling!

    131. concerned mom on June 19th, 2005 10:35 pm

      Wow, a lot of finger pointing here. To those who are pointing fingers of blame, look at your hand, while you are busy pointing at others, you have three fingers pointing at yourself. Sad how the conviction rate of victims in the courts of public opinion are probably higher than the conviction rate of PERPETRATORS in a court of law.

    132. mdjgirl7 on June 19th, 2005 10:42 pm

      I agree what happened to nat is horrible. I know most 18 years olds are considered young adults. Let us be real most 18 year olds have never lived outside of their parents home never made a life changing decision.

      Maybe this experience will help all of us all over the world take another look at how we help young people experience the world. I am so sure in every culture and every country we have likes and dislikes about the way our goverments run things. I would be willing to bet we all want the same things a safe home, a good job, good schools for our kids. I think that pretty much sums it up.

      I do live in America and their are lots of things that happen here just like they do everywhere I don’t think as people we need to point the finger at one another as one being better then the other just different. Hopefully we all can agree what ever happened to Natalee will come to some kind of resolve and those responsible will be held accountable.

    133. Paul on June 19th, 2005 10:42 pm

      I have been monitoring some of the pure nonsense that has been written by various individuals who express their opinoins freely based on limited knowledge how differences in other countries invariably cause that flare up of U.S. styled rhetoric geared to a belief that the American lifestyle ideals , in comparison to the rest of the world, are the expressed norm. .What I am referring to is the unfounded comments by Luker who clearly is not aware that the drinking age north of your border is also 18, as in the legal drinking age for young adults, and further investigation of many many countries of this world recognize that number as the legal drinking age. If you’re up for observing out of control behavior, just take a look at Daytona Beach during spring break, where the things that go on there for those of ‘U.S. legal’ drinking age, getting into all kinds of situations that make C&C in Oranjestad look like Sesame Street . Aruba is a picturesque island with extemely consistent weather,beautiful beach areas,excellent scuba diving locale, top notch windsurfing, tourist friendly with all the fast food creature comforts along with 4/5 star restaurants, etc. It is not as suggested ‘a haven for binge drinking’. I speak from true facts not twisted fantasy….This is what puzzles me, no one has addressed the fact that Natalee Holloway was discovered missing only upon check-in at the airport. She was paired off with a roommate(s). Why didn’t they go to a chaperon and mention earlier that she was not in the room but her bags were, with passport. Previous to that, what about a timed bed check, breakfast in the morning, leaving the hotel by the tour bus to the airport (head count taken, her bags left in the room upon departure. Why was it only discovered at the airport check-in. The distance from the Holiday Inn is approx. 5 km,about 3 miles., no one at all observed her disappearance until then ?? That unanswered question, to date, has nothing to do with how much alcohol was consumed by her and more to do with the methods used to insure the security of those visiting students to this idyllic Caribbean island.

    134. LizzieD on June 19th, 2005 10:48 pm

      Hindsight’s 20/20 and we can all say “we would have done this” and “I am appalled this was allowed”.

      Go back and think about every moment of your life and somewhere you have made a decision and are lucky everything turned out alright.

      It’s very easy, after something bad happens, to look back on what you would have done differently. I’m not saying that I agree with all the planning that went along with the trip to Aruba. I’m just saying that that is not the point right now and we should focus more on solving the mystery of what happened to Natalee.

    135. Slice on June 19th, 2005 10:50 pm

      It seems to me that most people that consider C&C bar seedy, are people that have never seen it, or been there. Yeah, so people told you that. Who gives a crap? Those people don’t what seedy means. C&C is not the most family friendly place but it’s a bar, and for a bar, it’s not that unsafe.

    136. Dawson on June 19th, 2005 10:54 pm

      I don’t know anyone can help anyone out with this information I want to impart to you.

      While reading our local newspaper in Ann Arbor Michigan Sunday edition “Mott Classic Special Insert”, there is an article about a young boy 14 years old named Max Devries. He was lost at “sea” in Aruba last year. No police report, no death certificate.

      In the article I have it says this

      “Yvonne gave Max permission to go out on the ocean on a jet ski with a man from the hotel and his son.

      Max never returned.

      He was lost at sea. The Army and Navy devoted manpower to try to rescue Max. Helicopters and airplanes looked for him in the biggest search operation in Aruba’s history, said Yvonne.

      To this day, more than a year later, Yvonne still has no clear answer to what exactly happened to Max: there is not death certificate, no police report and no help from the US or Aruba governments.”

      I just about jumped out of my skull when I read that. Can anyone get this information to the Holloway’s? What hotel and who was the kid he went with?

    137. Slice on June 19th, 2005 10:57 pm

      Paul is way too smart. Period. And I agree.

    138. LizzieD on June 19th, 2005 11:01 pm

      Paul, I too have been confused that Natalee was not reported missing until she didn’t show up at the Gate for her flight! I have done a bit of traveling with groups and I can’t imagine that my group/roommates would head to the airport without me or without notifying anyone else. Strange indeed.

    139. mdjgirl7 on June 19th, 2005 11:06 pm

      Just some thoughts as I read some of these posts. I am not blaming anyone. Just a observation. We all know that Joran is 17 the legal drinking and gambling age in Aruba is 18. Yes I realize underage drink in America all the time, but America is hooooge compared to Aruba. Not making it right by anymeans my point is eveyone seemed to know who this boy was and how old he was but yet he was given free run of Aruba. I do not know if it is fact or not but I have read he did not have a drivers license but he was drivinvg as well.

      The only thing I am thinking is if something comes out to implicate him I am not sue if the brothers will take the fall. All we have heard is who J’s family is and the money and power his dad has. We have heard nothing about the brothers family or I have not at all. So I am thinking I bet J’s dad is supplying the lawyers and if it gets ugly I think they will try and pin it on the brothers. If I were the brothers if I knew anything I would sing like a bird. They better watch their back. Just a few hmmmms from me.

      We just had a update on the news here they are saying that J’s dad may be a witness to something. Could J got scared and pulled his daddy in it to help him cover up evidence? Just specualting.

    140. Anonymous on June 19th, 2005 11:38 pm

      To Paul and LizzieD—Once again, do not comment on things that you do not know about!!!! Did it ever occur to you that maybe people are not allowed or will not talk about the details of what happened that night for privacy sakes??? How do you know her disappearance was not discovered earlier? Exactly, because you don’t. I was there, I know. Do you actually think that we got to the airport and realized then she was gone?? The media has been helpful in shedding light on this tragedy, but the second tragedy is that all the lies and misinformation that are being reported by the media are being absorbed by people like you.

    141. Nona on June 19th, 2005 11:44 pm

      We do know that the Polis did not care until Natalee’s mother got there and kick started the investigation for them!

    142. Minnesota Dad on June 19th, 2005 11:47 pm

      The great karnac speaks…….

      Watch for Papa Van der Sloot to be arrested within the next 24-48 hours.

      It just seems to make sense. The guy seems to have been involved with the cover-up step by step. Stuck his neck out to protect his son (anyone see him sprinting to his car???? Does he realize how stupid – and guilty of something – he looked?).

      His kid did the misdeed with his two buddies. They called in Papa to get them out of the trouble. Papa called on his buddies to make sure there was no evidence. I truly hope that Papa’s cell phone records from that evening have been looked at. Based on this case….I could see them looking at those records maybe six weeks from now….oh…just long enough for people to “forget” conversations in testimony.

      At minimum, I think Papa can have the book thrown at him for aiding and abetting a crime. Perhaps if Junior knew his dad was getting pulled down by his actions…Junior might just be a little bit more cooperative.

      In the end, I think they will push all of the crimes on this one on the Juveniles. Let them sit in a Juvenile Detention center for a year or two and then be on their way. All adults then are cleared of their participation in this mess.


    143. Shannon on June 19th, 2005 11:48 pm

      My husband and I went to Aruba on our honeymoon six years ago. We went on the Kuckoo Kunukoo (sp?) bus tour and the last stop was Carlos and Charlies. Once we walked in, you could just sense that there was something going on. Needless to say, we told the tour guide (driver of the bus) that we would be getting a taxi back to our resort and not returning with the others on the tour. When he asked us why, my husband responded with, “I don’t know what you all are trying to pull here, or what kind of Bull$#!@ is going on, but we are getting out of here now!” It was almost an intuition we had…once we walked in…locals were lurking….staring…it was scary…we are not “fuddy-duddies”…we like to party and have fun, but, I was concerned enough that I even asked my husband if his button on the back of his shorts was in fact buttoned so that no one could swipe his wallet. There was just a smell of drugs and evil…I can’t explain it, but we just sensed it. I really think that since Natalie was last seen there, that someone there that has not been mentioned nor questioned is also involved. I think it does involve drugs and it is bigger than we can even comprehend. I just hope and pray she’s alive and can come back home with her family.

    144. Robert on June 19th, 2005 11:56 pm

      “locals were lurking”

      locals arent allowed in the ‘tourist’ bars now?

    145. Shannon on June 20th, 2005 12:00 am

      Definition of lurking: To lie in wait in a place of concealment for an evil purpose….YES, it was lurking…what’s your definition?

    146. Robert on June 20th, 2005 12:03 am

      well just by walking into somewhere I probably wouldn’t just assume that the people ther are “locals” without knowing them, nor woul I know that they were up to some evil purpose…

      I think it’s good that you followed your gut instinct though!..

    147. Michiel van der Blonk on June 20th, 2005 12:21 am

      A lot of you talk about the ‘permissive Dutch culture’. I have to say you don’t know what you are talking about. I am a dutch man living on the island, and had quite a culture shock when I arrived. I am a non-smoking, non-drug using, non-promiscuous, decent man who doesn’t go into bars. Yet, I was used to Amsterdam’s permissive environment. Here, I am shocked by the fact that people do ‘not like’ gays, and find topless sunbathing a sinful act. Yes that is right, some Arubans are apalled by Americans sunbathing topless on their beach. In one line: Aruba does not equal Dutch Culture. It’s on the other side of the ocean for God’s sake, and it has more in common with South and North America then with Holland.

    148. Desiree on June 20th, 2005 12:22 am

      I watched an interview with a local teen or 20 something. He said that C & C was “the” place to go for drugs…ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana, etc. Also, he said the locals were divided on whether Natalee was alive or not. It almost seemed like he knew more but didn’t want to say. I also saw an interview with 2 girls that said it was very reasonable to assume Natalee had a drugged drink. It was common to have that happen. So could the bartender be in cahoots with the local boys?? I read earlier here that tourists are steered to C & C. Never ever ask a bus driver, taxi person etc. where to go…they are usually paid kickbacks to “steer” people. Also, I haven’t seen anyone ask C&C’s why all of a sudden on June 3rd they put an “i.d. required for admittance” notice on their website?? I think that C&C has a lot to do with this, that it has probably been going on for years…steering young girls there, drugging their drinks, leaving with the locals. But this time something went tragically wrong.
      May God Bless Natalee wherever she is…

    149. Robert on June 20th, 2005 12:27 am

      I think people need to take some responsibility in where they go to drink(not talking natalee here) instead of blaming a bar if something bad happens to them there..

      There are bars in my own city I wouldnt go to if my life depended on it, just because of the people who go there.. people need to realize that just because somewere has a “low” crime rate doesnt make them safe, and doesnt make it ok for them to be stupid and take stupid risks..

    150. Justin T on June 20th, 2005 12:27 am


      I don’t know if you are still here but I want to clarify something. It was not at the airport that it was discovered it was at the Hotel. The reason no one notices is alot of the girls fell asleep in each othrs rooms during the trip. I don’t know about Nataless’s roomates but a lot of them were out until 5am which was just 2 hours before they were to leave for the airport. All of this came directly from Natalee’s mother… Just thought you should know

    151. Justin T on June 20th, 2005 12:32 am


      actually the coment from the girl was that she thought Natalee had been drugged. And that it would not be a surprise as it happens here in the states all the time. Which it does unfortunately.

      It is not unusual forCab drivers to be paid kick backs to steer buisnes,

    152. wolfeladyinbama on June 20th, 2005 12:37 am

      The late local news was just on due to the NBA playoffs and they reported live from Aruba that the parents have hired a local attorney on the island to kind of be a “go between” and in the hopes that the authoritied would be more forthcoming in their information. They interviewed the step-father “Jug” and he stated they felt this was a good move at this point due to the fact that they had been on the island for so long. Will report anything else I hear.

    153. Paula on June 20th, 2005 12:50 am

      Someone should question that bus driver/”tour guide” fellow who reccomended that bar.

    154. Waldo on June 20th, 2005 12:56 am

      where’s Goofy?

    155. Peter on June 20th, 2005 1:04 am

      In Aruba.

    156. SteveDinMD on June 20th, 2005 1:13 am

      Ok, now I’m totally disgusted. Fox News ‘The Big Story” a little while ago aired an interview with an Aruban police official. He was very disagreable. He said that he wanted to make it clear that polygraph examinations are inappropriate under Dutch law, and therefore cannot be used on those held in custody or others taken in for questioning. He went on to say that he understands the FBI considers the polygraph to be a powerful interrogation aid. That being the case, he suggested, the FBI might want to take it upon themselves to subject Natalee’s family and friends to polygraph examinations in order to more quickly get to the bottom of things. I find his statements to be absolutely OUTRAGEOUS. I had originally been inclined to attribute the investigation’s miscues to run of the mill incompetence. Now, I’m thinking cover-up.

    157. JL on June 20th, 2005 1:15 am


      please come back aruba girl//// please save us white people… we don’t know the gang signs…
      we weren’t aware of the additional cost to to staying alive in your country were…. Please take my daughter as a down payment, she means nothing to me over you… PLEASE COME BACK!!!!

    158. sarizona on June 20th, 2005 1:18 am

      i heard the same, and could not believe Fox did not rebut and show outrage at the innuendo about Natalee’s family
      Rita Cosby sure would have replied appropriately
      that guy ought to be interrogated further

    159. SteveDinMD on June 20th, 2005 1:27 am

      ‘The Big Story’ also aired a segment taking a special look at Paulus Van Der Sloot, Joran’s father. He is NOT a judge in Aruba. He is NOT even a practicing attorney in Aruba, though he did earn a Master’s degree in law in the Netherlands. His precise position in the Government of Aruba is somewhat difficult to explain. He has been described as the “Principal Private Secretary to the Procurator of Aruba.” Who/what is the Procurator of Aruba? Is this some kind of Dutch royal office, along the lines of a Governor General in the British Commonwealth? To me, “Principal Private Secretary” sounds like something akin to Chief of Staff. If anyone has specific information, please provide. At any rate, in his current position, Van Der Sloot may supposedly hear a limited number of cases in court. Mr. Twitty, Natalee’s step-father, said in an interview that he spoke with Paulus Van Der Sloot shortly after his arrival on the island. He said that he found Van Der Sloot to be “… the most obnoxious slimeball …” he had ever come across.

    160. sarizona on June 20th, 2005 1:35 am

      at the very least, papa vander sleaze will be an accessory to underage driving

    161. fugazi.fugaxi on June 20th, 2005 1:41 am
    162. JL on June 20th, 2005 1:41 am


    163. ydave on June 20th, 2005 2:33 am

      Maybe if they hire a private investigator, instead of a lawyer, things may move a little faster…

      or, the lawyer might want to hire a private investigator, and conduct his own investigation.

      It appears the Aruban police is waisting all this resource, just to protect the “good name” of Aruba, not to find Nathalee.

    164. Spud on June 20th, 2005 4:31 am

      Carlos & Charlies has a statement on their website forum, just went up a little bit ago. It is their statement about Natalee’s disapearence.

    165. Spud on June 20th, 2005 4:34 am
    166. Ringo on June 20th, 2005 5:26 am

      Well Lurker, A couple of things…
      She mentioned the “older” adults (I say this because here, in the great state of Alabama you’re considered an adult at 18 and can serve your country in time of war etc..) were NOT there to “baby sit”. Plainly stated in docs. So try not to twist what she is saying to form an illogical decision about what did or didn’t happen, you were not there . I’m not sure where you reside however, I left Southern California for Alabama 9 years ago and frankly the is a very large difference in the quality people living in here then anyother place I’ve lived in the states or abroad. I have friends in both Mt Brook and Crestline and can tell you (first hand) from Hollwood to La Jolla there isn’t a nicer place to live. “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation”. By the way.. CNN was the same news source that said and I quote:
      “Doctors have discovered that ingesting “sperm” will decrease the chances of women getting breast cancer by 95%”. Obviously a joke that someone started and CNN picked up posted on their web site for days…. before getting a clue.

    167. Dawson on June 20th, 2005 8:10 am

      While reading our local newspaper in Ann Arbor Michigan Sunday edition “Mott Classic Special Insert”, there is an article about a young boy 14 years old named Max Devries. He was lost at “sea” in Aruba last year. No police report, no death certificate.

      In the article I have it says this

      “Yvonne gave Max permission to go out on the ocean on a jet ski with a man from the hotel and his son.

      Max never returned.

      He was lost at sea. The Army and Navy devoted manpower to try to rescue Max. Helicopters and airplanes looked for him in the biggest search operation in Aruba’s history, said Yvonne.

      To this day, more than a year later, Yvonne still has no clear answer to what exactly happened to Max: there is not death certificate, no police report and no help from the US or Aruba governments.”

      I just about jumped out of my skull when I read that. Can anyone get this information to the Holloway’s? What hotel and who was the kid he went with?

    168. New Jersey on June 20th, 2005 8:13 am

      18 year olds do not have the maturity nor experience to be put into an adult like situation such as Carlos and Charlies without guidance or support from an older adult friend, parent or chaperone. Can’t we just let kids be kids and take one step at a time?

    169. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 8:46 am

      I was hoping that this case would be solved this weekend, but unfortunately that’s not the case.

      I saw an interview with Natalee’s step-dad last night – he said that he met Joran’s dad…and that he was the most obnoxious scum-bag he’d ever met…and is confident that he also knows what happened to Natalee.

      What’s the latest from Aruba? Does anyone have any more insight?

      I envision a train wreck for her family when they find the body. I still hope she’s alive and being held against her will, but it doesn’t look good.

      I still can’t figure out why it’s so hard to find her. I still believe all (3) of these punk-ass kids were involved in the crime, and if she is deceased I find it hard to believe that (3) teen-age kids are out-smarting an entire island. Unless, of course, big daddy Vaner Sloot gave the boys some coaching. I’m sure big daddy has enough contacts that he could have the body disposed of. And if there is no physical evidence, it will be difficult to convict the boys of anything. Who knows, big daddy may have even done the leg work. Is that why they impounded the family vehicles? Huummmmm…..

      All posters on thiws site – let me know if there are any new developments. Why can’t the Arubans just give all involved a lie detector test. Is that against Aruban policy?

      - Sol

    170. Kris on June 20th, 2005 9:09 am


      From what I saw over the weekend, lie dectector tests are illegal in Aruba. As much as that sucks. I haven’t been able to find any new information either.

    171. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 9:33 am

      did anything new come from them questioning and holding joran’s parents?
      is there anything that the aruban government is allowed to do besides hold people? they can’t do lie detectors? that’s insane!

    172. Rosemary on June 20th, 2005 9:43 am

      As a mom, the best advice I can give is “If you would not
      drink and get in a car with 3 unknown males in Birmingham/Mt. Brook, then don’t do that ANYWHERE. ” To my son I would say to be aware of and observe the laws of a foreign country.” As we all know a suspect can be held in Aruba for a long time without even being charged. For that matter, a “person of interest” can be held in this country according the Patriot Act.
      While no country can protect all tourists, I do feel the
      Arubans early on started covering up to protect tourism. According to my moral values that I develped growing up in Birmingham, that is the real obsenity of this whole heartbreaking situation for all of us but especially the Holloway-Twitty family. Of course when I was 18 I did many dangerous things believing that young people are invincible. Sadly, that’s not true.

    173. Former Sheriff's Deputy on June 20th, 2005 9:47 am

      To: Tom/Red,

      I see that some criticism is being directed your way. Though I have stopped my daily comments regarding who is to blame, I feel compelled to chim in that your Blog site is a joke. You did everything possible to block my comments. One of your posts even said “We’ve got him” referring to the capture of my IP address so you could block my posts. That resulted in me having to spoof (fake) my IP address for every post. This should not be the situation one encounters! You run this blog with the attitude of “Like what I say and say what I like”. What is that all about? You are angered by people who post opinions diffrent from yours. Your attitude that “This is my house and you will do what I say!” (remember that posting you made?) is a joke. Your blog should have been a meeting place for all to convey their comments; not be required to fall in line with your opinions/perspectives. You run this blog very poorly and that is a shame. For some reason this blog seems to have defined your lives. What gives? Have you not got anything else to do?

      Tom/Red, I suggest you settle down, treat people with respect even if you disagree with their position and be a little more humble as this blog is not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

      The Deputy.

    174. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 9:49 am

      rosemary- that is true about if you wouldn’t do it at home, why there. i had thoughts on the same line when i would hear her mom saying that is so not like her to run off with people she doesn’t know. the same concept goes for when kids go to college. they are away from mom and dad and all the people that knew them at home. it’s like time to let loose and find yourself. i’ve known kids that go away from home and end up coming back because they got on drugs or got pregnant. some people just can’t handle new freedom like that.

    175. AnnapolisArubaFan on June 20th, 2005 10:18 am

      Sol: you actually saw/heard an interview with step-dad in which he said

      “he met Joran’s dad…and that he was the most obnoxious scum-bag he’d ever met…and is confident that he also knows what happened to Natalee” ?

      What network? still airing?

    176. AnnapolisArubaFan on June 20th, 2005 10:19 am

      Aruba Girl:

      Still there? What is the official reward?

    177. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 10:19 am

      pktbk, I don’t think anyone wants to talk about the real issue here. Apparently everyone is having a very bad Monday and want to throw stones at one another……

    178. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 10:29 am

      as usual vanessa…sorry for my delay. i was trying to find some kind of discussions on here. i’m so aggravated! lol

    179. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 10:32 am

      I completely agree Sol! If they could give a polygraph test, then why haven’t they administered it yet. I would find it very hard to believe that that test would be against Aruban policy….

    180. Paul on June 20th, 2005 10:32 am

      I appreciate the various reactions to my comments posted on June 19, 10:42 p.m. and will attempt to respond to those that have chosen to disseminate all or part of what was written. Anonymous,I agree that I was not in the exact space at the Holiday Inn Sunspree Hotel where Natalee H. stayed at and was enjoying her time while in Aruba but from the time that this unfortunate situation was discovered, any existing news report, whether written in Papiamento by Aruban sources, the local English newspapers in Aruba, my personal well informed friends etc. living directly on the island, the obvious reports coming from American reporters stationed in Aruba representing all the major U.S. news agencies, no one had mentioned this gap (Anonymous) or questioned outloud WHY this girls’ absence was not noted until everyone was at the airport. None of these broadcast news sources has speculated, as investigative reports do, as to mention this in their original an ongoing reports. Whether or not you personaly believe or know that this info was not made public is neither here nor there. I know the island pretty well and am highly familiar with all the existing hotels, right down to their renovated (HI) pool/beach areas etc. and the questions that I raised are valid and well founded. It is NOT a privacy issue, it’s something that has been overlooked by all news media sources and I find that disturbing to say the least. Take the time to reread my original commentary.and you will see that I am making a responsible observation on a highly emotional issue for all those closely associated with this situation ….. It will not change anything now,Lizzie D., but I hope you get what I was implying. That time frame is my ? mark and we all learn for the future by examining or scrutinizing the past. However, thanks for your supportive comment on the timeframe gap…Slice is correct in his assesssment of the type of establishment that C&C is, for an island hangout. Thanks for the compliment Slice….Lets hope this all comes to a miraculous conclusion for the Holloway/Twitty family.

    181. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 10:39 am

      Paul, I am glad the time frame was your ? mark because it was also mine. How was it possible that no one noticed Natalee was gone until arrival at the airport…How odd is that, especially her roommates. Did they not say anything prior to leaving the hotel??

    182. mbhs05 on June 20th, 2005 10:40 am

      Yes, they knew before they got to the airport.

    183. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 10:42 am

      So everyone was alert and aware of Natalee’s disappearance before they left the Holiday Inn?

    184. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 10:42 am

      she had two roommates and they didn’t check each other to make sure they had everything? not just making sure they all left, but you know how you want to make sure you don’t leave anything behind. so strange.

      i have a feeling this is much bigger than a date rape scenario. it’s seeming to be much more complex.

      do you think this process would have lasted so long if her parents were there in the authorities faces everyday? i cringe to think about kids whose parents couldn’t afford to go find their child themselves, how their kids were just chalked up as missing and then forgotten.

    185. mrs. red on June 20th, 2005 10:44 am

      Deputy –
      If you think this site is so bad, turn the page – go elsewhere – no body has asked you to stay here.

      Your comments are so incredibly disrespectful to Natalee and everyone else that is concerned about her well being.

      Really, get a life and don’t be so nasty all the time. It’s obvious you have a blame the victim mentality and don’t want to hear that noone unless they were there really knows what happened.

      SO YOU “settle down”. You haven’t treated anyone with respect, so why do you think you deserve respect? It’s like everything – you are treated in the manner you ask to be.

    186. mbhs05 on June 20th, 2005 10:46 am

      Yes, they knew. Her roomates thought she might have slept in in someone else’s room. Remember the first thing that would occur to anyone in that situation is NOT that their friend had been kidnapped…that is extremely unlikely from where we come from, and so that would just simply not occur to them.

    187. Paul on June 20th, 2005 10:49 am

      fashionqueen, Before you and I become the recipient of derogatory comments,Anonymous,who is a friend of Natalee, has responded to my previous comments posted on June 19th,10:42p.m. Please take the time to read the original and the reactions to that. Thanks.

    188. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 10:52 am

      This is true, but even up to the point where she didn’t return to get her luggage and passport? At what point is it safe to assume that there is something seriously wrong?

    189. Mauricio Dolce on June 20th, 2005 10:53 am

      To correct some miss conception about Holland and the Dutch:

      - Very few Dutch smoke MJ or use hard drugs, actually they are very annoyed at the drug tourists.
      - The rate of minor and major crims in Holland is 10% of the US
      - There were not enough “chaperones”, actually they were former seniors in vacations.
      - The legal drinking age in the US is 21 while its widely known to be 18 elsewhere.
      - WHY did the parents send the kids in an overseas trip were Alcohol, Drugs, Sex and Gambeling will be available?
      - WHY did her freinds and chaperones let her leave the Bar with 3 guys?

      This is not to justify what happened to her, its to establish each particpant responsibility.

      I am American living in the US.

    190. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 10:53 am

      i heard from a source that her mom is staying in nat’s room. that she was looking through nat’s digital camera. i thought it strange that she had the camera. wouldn’t the police have taken it?

    191. mbhs05 on June 20th, 2005 10:55 am

      Hey ANONYMOUS…can you email me at

    192. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 10:56 am

      cnn said that the mom can visit joran but the father can’t. that is very weird.

      they can only hold them for 116 days….how many days do they have left?

    193. Tom on June 20th, 2005 11:01 am


      Since you brought this up, I will answer it as politely as I can.

      I do have postitions on the Natalee disapearnce. 2 as a matter of fact.

      First, lets do what we can to do to find her.

      Second, be polite about it.

      You failed on the second count.

      Now you can come back and be a troll about it, be ugly, you are correct I can not stop you. There are tools out there designed just for that purpose.

      But if you feel like your legacy is to be rude in a forum that is trying to be uplifting and positive in the face of a horrible incident, go right ahead, because although I will try, I can not stop you.

      But think about it, do you think that persecuting you was something I got excited about, or was a last ditch effort to correct a bad situation.

      Think about it.

    194. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 11:03 am

      A previous post from “Bham” –

      Her friends did not “LET” Natalee leave drunk with strangers. Nataless had been drinking but was not the falling down drunk everyone wants to portray her as. Her last words were that she was going to the hotel with friends. The vander Sloot boy had been with the group for several days – was their own age and appeared to be from an upstanding family. Natalee was not running around drunk and fulfilling some kind of last night stand with a bunch of locals. I’m sorry if you need someone blame – Natalee is not it. Something horrible happened to her. The puclic would rather place blame on Natalee and the chaperones rather than the murderers, rapists or kidnappers. That is ludicrous.

      Everytime you open your front door, you could be murdered. Is this your fault or the murderer’s fault? Everytime you walk into and out of a parking lot, you could be murdered. Who’s fault is it? Is it your fault because you wore a halter top and shorts to the store or is it the murderer’s fault.

      We all want answers to this case. However, slandering a person or the chaperones to try and satisfy the need to place blame is not the answer. The people from Mountain Brook are not “Covering” up anything. That’s not the way this community works. There is nothing to cover up. Why not focus on the criminals here?

    195. Trisher on June 20th, 2005 11:04 am

      I get so tired of this blame the victim and the parents mentality, Mauricio.
      They were not “chaperones” per the definition of that word.
      Some drugs are legal in The Netherlands.
      The parents didn’t “send the kids.” You send your kid to school, summer camp, music lessons. The “kids” were technically adults and the “kids” went on a trip. God, it’s not the parents fault! Alcohol, drugs, sex, and gambling are available right here in our own country. There’s no getting away from it.
      The friends are not to blame either. My guess is no one was actually totally sober and in good control of all faculties that night.
      This is sad story of some bad decisions that could be all too more common except for the fact that some people are just more lucky.

    196. crs on June 20th, 2005 11:06 am

      Who thinks there is a segment of Aruba that is really starting to resent NH’s family – I say this because last night on fox, there was an aruban cop and he said this twice “NH’s family and friends are the one’s who need to be taking a lie detector test” – Thoughts?

    197. ydave on June 20th, 2005 11:07 am

      pktbk … The Aruban police does not know what it is doing.

      Remember, it’s Nathalee’s mom who found Joran VD Sloot and the Kalpoes, within 24 hours of Nathalee’s disappearance.

    198. Elizabeth on June 20th, 2005 11:10 am

      Thanks for your response to everyone who commented on your post last night. I do understand what you are saying and I do think you have a valid point.

      Re: when Natalee was reported missing. . . .You simply asked a question “why was she not reported missing sooner” and I see nothing wrong with wanting to fill in that gap. For “Anonymous” to shout at either of us for simply pointing out that nobody has explained this was inappropriate. I don’t pretend to know all the facts. Questions are the only way to get the answers.

      When people go missing the first hours are very important. For whatever reason . . . . .those were not taken advantage of.

    199. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 11:11 am

      The above post is from me. . .for some reason it changed my handle.

    200. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 11:16 am

      To Paul:

      I did take the time to go back and read your post and the responses that you received and how quickly “Anonymous” responded. What I will say to that is….”The truth hurts” and ” A hit dog will holler”. I still agree with you Paul and would love to know if Anonymous has a response for your last post.

      To Ydave:

      Amen. Amen. It was Natalee’s family who found those boys, not the police.

    201. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 11:17 am

      BhamNativeGirl Says:

      I find it interesting that you compare going about your own business and walking in a parking lot or walking out your front door with being drunk in a foreign country and leaving in a car with strangers. This situation is not the result of a freak accident.

      I’m not trying to place any blame anyone and I am not accusing anyone of a cover up. I’m just saying that Natalee wasn’t just “walking out her front door”. She clearly trusted the wrong people and that is unfortunate. I think we all have put ourselves in situations that, had things gone differently, could have resulted in a crime. Whether or not it appeared to be possible at the time. . . . Natalee and those around her put themselves in a situation where meeting the wrong people could have devasting circumstances.

    202. Red on June 20th, 2005 11:18 am

      I am not sure when you may have been blocked? However, I would think you probably did something to deserve it. This just in from Tom …

      Since you brought this up, I will answer it as politely as I can.
      I do have postitions on the Natalee disapearnce. 2 as a matter of fact.
      First, lets do what we can to do to find her.

      Second, be polite about it.
      You failed on the second count.
      Now you can come back and be a troll about it, be ugly, you are correct I can not stop you. There are tools out there designed just for that purpose.

      But if you feel like your legacy is to be rude in a forum that is trying to be uplifting and positive in the face of a horrible incident, go right ahead, because although I will try, I can not stop you.

      But think about it, do you think that persecuting you was something I got excited about, or was a last ditch effort to correct a bad situation.

      Think about it.

      Our blog is our blog, not yours. If you want to create your own, please feel free to do so. If you think its such a joke then why do you come here?

      Please remember a blog is not a public forum, we must set the boundaries for it. It is not public its is privately owned. “Your blog should have been a meeting place for all to convey their comments”. (It is as long as they are done respectfully. We have plenty of diverse views. ) That’s all there are everywhere are alternate views of what has happened. You have stated that you were a former policeman I believe in past comments, then you should know there have to be rules, guide lines and boundaries that define entities.

      Please do not tell us what our blog should be like. You can tell yourself what yours should be like if you wish. Of course we cannot make everyone happy, such as you. Which begs the question, why come to our site? I am sure there are others that you would enjoy more. Since 99.8% seem to enjoy this site and find it informative, you seem to be in the minority with your opinions.

      You say, “For some reason this blog seems to have defined your lives. Have you not got anything else to do?”

      Deputy Dog? That’s’ very funny, seems like you may be describing yourself as you continue to come back to something that you hate so much. You continually go out of your way to mask your IP? And you claim we have nothing better to do? OK. It’s pretty easy to be negative, it’s a lot harder to actually try and do something positive.

      You are free to comment as long as it is respectful. How difficult a concept is it that when you are in someone else’s house, you respect their rules and be respectful?

      Nice talking with you but now I must go and do what defines part of my life … work.


    203. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 11:19 am

      Well said Elizabeth.

    204. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 11:20 am

      Well then, well said Lizzie:-)

    205. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 11:22 am

      LOL, thanks Fashioqueen

    206. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 11:26 am

      LOL…My pleasure!!

    207. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:28 am

      i also saw the FOX program on Natalee, and that OBNOXIOUS former Aruban cop (middle aged guy) who had the BALLS to say natalee’s family should be given the lie detector test, so enraged my husband he actually cursed at the TV

      WHAT BALLS! The Arubans are more than mentally challenged…..they are hostile!

    208. R on June 20th, 2005 11:29 am

      I think it was when they reached the airport that they truly became frantic. They knew she wasn’t there earlier — a lot different from “missing/no where to be found.” At what point do you “phone home” to terrify a family a long way away? Some folks stayed, of course, looking. There was mass confusion, as anyone can imagine.

      As far chaperones, I realize they are in a foreign country, but who is going to chaperone in two months when she gets to the University? I live in Tuscaloosa and
      it sometimes feels like a foreign country with so many “teenagers” unchaperoned.

    209. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 11:30 am

      i think we would be less frustrated with this case if the dutch government would give the media more info instead of using that to throw out a case. we as americans are so used to this way of doing business, we stew in our impatience when we can’t get the latest scoop. i know myself personally would be a lot less aggravated if i could hear more details.

      ydav-that is sad but true. i was freaked out to hear she had conversations with joran. who gets the oppurtunity to talk to the accusers like that? that’s crazy.

      crs-you are probably right. if they don’t like the dutch, i’m sure they don’t like americans coming and telling them how to solve a case.

    210. Mark 2 on June 20th, 2005 11:31 am

      First of all, the “chapperones” weren’t the problem. It is the entire concept of 18 year olds going to a permissive foreign country filled with drugs and allowed to drinkand party. Talking about poor judgement from the word go. They may be considered adults in Aruba, but does that mean they are mature and experienced enough to handle a situation like this? Some are and some aren’t. A nieve, inexperienced, and/or immature person, especially female, would be very vulnerable in this situation. This was a bad idea. Sure, take them somewhere to have a good time, but at least stay in the United States where you are familiar with where you are going and protected by U.S. law.

      Secondly, hearing the Arubian authorities wouldn’t let the FBI bring in a polygraph distrurbs me greatly. I am convinced they are putting on a good show on the surface, but don’t really want the truth to come out. You have a girl that is missing that could even be alive right now and the Arubian authorities forbid the FBI from using a polygraph?

      I will be very surprised if this case is ever solved. Sorry for the pessimism this morning, but it doesn’t look good. The media and the FBI are the only things that are keeping this going. Once the media goes on to something else and the FBI need those resources somewhere else, this case is dead.

    211. crs on June 20th, 2005 11:32 am

      SS – I am not dismissing you and your husbands feelings – they are certainly valid – however, I think this is starting to be part of the problem- the arubans are starting to look at NH’s family and the american media – and have to be thinking what an arrogant group -coming down here and telling us our system is horrible.

    212. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 11:34 am

      R Says:

      Tuscaloosa is NOT a foreign country. People keep saying “but she was going to be on her own in 2 months anyway”. Going to college with your friends, with people of the same culture and under the justice system of your OWN country is not the same as traveling on a vacation to a foreign country for the sole purpose of drinking and having a good time with friends.

      Most kids don’t learn any street smarts until they go to college and gradually have to do things on their own. Most college students are “Wiser” even after a few months in school.

      That being said. . I do think that 7 people for 125 kids is not enough but I don’t think that even 40 Chaperones would have made a difference in Natalee’s case.

    213. crs on June 20th, 2005 11:39 am

      Thoughts on where Steve Croes fits into the whole thing?

    214. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 11:39 am

      crs — so what if arubans are annoyed with the media attention? A horrible thing happened to an american teen….we have a RIGHT as Americans to demand attention be paid! What are you, heartless? Did you see Natalee’s mother’s face? She’s suffering the tortures of the damned

    215. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:40 am

      TO CRS___ plus, your legal system IS HORRIBLE! ADMIT IT

    216. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 11:43 am

      To crs: Croes is the “mule” that transports the kidnapped victims to Venequela where they enter into the underground of sex slaves.

    217. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:44 am

      vanessa….is that true? how horrible

    218. Jake on June 20th, 2005 11:45 am

      I think that Aruban Authorities found some type of internet tie with Joran, and the Kalpoe brothers. This info was probably found during last Wed. search @ the VDS home. My first thought was that VDS called Croes to borrow the party boat late @ night to take Natalee out on it.

    219. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 11:45 am

      How I wish I knew, scared; just my thoughts on what crs asked.

    220. Jake on June 20th, 2005 11:46 am

      Has anyone found a picture of Croes?

    221. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:46 am

      just this sec. on FOX…they made an error…they stated “here is video of the Aruban atty general” and then you saw a guy in handcuffs, covering his face, being taken away in a cop car! Then the Fox Anchor said “oh, that’s Steven Croes!”

    222. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 11:47 am

      Liz – The post I had put up was from a poster named “Bham”, not me ;)
      - I was just re-posting it b/c I thought he/she made some good points about how people are quick to judge and focused on who’s to blame, etc…Too much of people’s time and thoughts are going into who’s to blame or how it could have been prevented – it happened, I’m sure parents, graduates, tourists, etc. are re-thinking some decisions they will be making, but blaming chaperones, friends, parents..isn’t going to bring her back.

      An eye for an eye only makes the world blind.

    223. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:47 am

      jake…FOX news is showing Croes’ face all the time…he looks like a THUG

    224. Paul on June 20th, 2005 11:47 am

      To Elizabeth, Well said and thanks for your comments.

    225. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 11:50 am

      so scared, has Fox News reported on whether the judge as determined if Croes can be detained longer?

    226. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 11:50 am

      Annapolis – My quotes from Natalee’s step dad were directly from his interview on FOX last night at 10:00 PM EST. He said that van der sloot’s dad was an “obnoxious” “scum-bag” and that, based on their conversation, he knew with confidence that Sloot Sr. knows what went down that night. I didn’t make any of that up, and I’m sure FOX will air this again today.

      It was stated that the Aruban police let the (3) kids go on purpose after they were originally taken in for questioning. They claim to have placed the kids under surveilence and also that their phones were tapped. What they didn’t consider….was that Sloot Sr. would probably advise his son on what to do to keep from getting into real trouble. HUGE MISTAKE BY THE ARUBAN AUTHORITIES.

      The bottom line…is that the case is slipping away because it was poorly handled from the beginning. An yes, boys and girls, it is political as well. One Aruban official was even quoted as saying, “How can we arrest Sloot Jr. since his old man will be the new judge?”.

      What a shame for Natalee’s parents. Sol is very disturbed…

    227. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 11:52 am


      Ah. . .I understand that cut and paste now.

      And I agree that we can all agree that poor judgment played a role in this but focusing on that won’t change anything regarding this situation. I do hope that is makes others think about their travels and how trusting they are of strangers. And I hope we find out what happened to Natalee.

    228. ydave on June 20th, 2005 11:52 am

      crs – Steve Croes fits well in the hypothesis that “Nathalee may have been taken to another island or another country.”

      Aruba officials have drawn three conclusions, when the investigation started:

      1/ She is murdered. They arrested two security guards, wanted to charge them with murder, and kidnapping that resulted in murder. They also wanted to use the three boys as witnesses after giving them immunity. That did not work.

      2/ She accidentally drowned. They did not let the FBI search the water.

      3/ She is removed from Aruba and sold in another country (island) as sex slave. That’s where Steve Croes may fit in.

    229. crs on June 20th, 2005 11:52 am

      SS – I do not think our system is horrible at all. Leopard – I brought up the media for discussion – that is why this is called a DISCUSSION BOARD – quit being so sensitive.

    230. jahazafat on June 20th, 2005 11:53 am

      It’s time for the Holloway Twitty clan to high tale it back home to Sweet Alabama and wait for a phone call. Parents who let their children play with fire gain little by shouting if their child is burned. According to the Michael Jackson jury, that is the voice of America. Any mother who lets her son sleep with Michael Jackson can’t come crying to court seeking damages over molestation.

      Face the facts, Natalee is gone like a fart in the wind. Aruba is hardly to blame and that little van der Snot has probably gotten away with murder. Natalee’s parents look ridiculous making demands on a foreign government. A foundation in Natalee’s honor to help limit teen’s underage drinking would be a better use of their time and energy.

    231. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 11:55 am

      If demanding that my child be found made me look like a “Ridiculous Parent”

      Then So be it. . .

      And the drinking age in Aruba is 18. . she wasn’t underage.

    232. Jake on June 20th, 2005 11:55 am

      Imagine how fustrated we all feel, I wonder how the FBI feels? Has anyone heard any comments from an FBI agent in Aruba?

    233. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:56 am

      crs: of course you dont think your system is horrible….you are prejudiced in favor of your island…but we who know, realize it IS horrible.

      Over 3 weeks and nothing has come of this? It’s disgusting! I just know we have a God in heaven who will PUNISH ALL INVOLVED, including people WHO DEFEND THIS CORRUPT ISLAND

    234. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 11:57 am

      jahazafat—-youre heartless and CRUDE. A pox on you!

    235. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 11:58 am

      Jake , the “we are smarter than you are” Arubans won’t ALLOW the FBI to do much

    236. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 11:59 am

      i agree with vanessa….since it is starting to seem more than a date rape, it very well could be human traffiking.

      for them to now have access to a boat? and aruba is in very close proximity to sex slave countries….i just hope this blows wide open soon!

      can anyone tell me the day that the boys were first detained? i’m just trying to get a timeline of how much longer they can hold them.

    237. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:00 pm

      Does anyone know what was said and from whom, that would make official go and pick up Steve Croes?

    238. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 12:00 pm

      pktbk, I believe they’ve been detained for 11 days now. I’m sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

    239. ydave on June 20th, 2005 12:02 pm

      The boys can be detained for 4 months. They were arrested in June and we are still in the month of June.

    240. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 12:02 pm

      wow…i thought it was longer than that. so they can hold them even longer….dragging this out until the last day and then arresting them on whatever they have found. aaarrrgh!

    241. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 12:03 pm

      and from my understading of the Arubian law pktbk, at that time and only then, will the facts of the case begin to come out.

    242. ydave on June 20th, 2005 12:04 pm

      They may be charged with filing a false police report (a felony), if nothing else.

    243. crs on June 20th, 2005 12:05 pm

      SS – I am not from aruba.

    244. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 12:06 pm

      how can they be charged w/filing a false police report? They didn’t file one………they were interrogated and therefore I would think they could be charged with perjury or giving a false statement under oath…………….

    245. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 12:07 pm

      Steve Croes must’ve been the only name mentioned on the phone taps of the (3) little pricks. Sol is getting irritated with the media….and the Aruban authorities. All talk…bla…bla…bla…

      Where is Natalee?

    246. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:08 pm

      Truth be told LizzieD, if that was my child, trust me, Aruba doesn’t know what it means to have a parent in your face, on your back, and down your throat, trying to find out the truth of what happenend to my child. And anything that looked suspect in my eyes would be questioned.

    247. ydave on June 20th, 2005 12:09 pm

      OK Vanessa.

    248. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:10 pm

      i think there are ppl on this forum who are NOT parents and have no idea what parental love is…….it’s pathetic

    249. crs on June 20th, 2005 12:10 pm

      Vanessa – And I don’t think we know for sure that stories have changed at all – that is what the american media says/speculates.

    250. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 12:11 pm


      I think that jahazafat is just trying to be a Pot Stirrer. Ignore him and don’t let him get you too fired up :-)

    251. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:11 pm

      crs: let me guess…you have no kids…am I correct?

    252. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:12 pm

      fashion queen – I feel the same way. I will even go as far as to say that I think NH family has acted REAL decent up to now. I have even heard NH father saying that “he thanks the authorities for all their hard work”. I would already be booking interviews with all the news programs and begin to BOYCOTT ARUBA. I know it wouldn’t bring their daughter back, but it seems to be what THEY care about the most!

    253. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:12 pm

      lizze, jahazafat got ME stirred up, not lizzie

    254. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:12 pm

      I mean “not fashionqueen”

    255. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:13 pm

      JAKE, you are MY kind of guy!

    256. jgirl on June 20th, 2005 12:13 pm

      Look up the word chaperone in the dictionary, and you will know who to blame some of this
      on. They are keeping low profiles, and did not do a damn thing. No head count, no advise,no supervision. Why are they off the hook, and why does Natalee’s family think they are not to blame. I don’t understand

    257. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 12:14 pm

      so very true crs……..

    258. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:14 pm

      jgirl: because the “chaperones” signed a FORM that the parents also signed saying they were not “responsible”

    259. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:16 pm

      Just say the chaperones promised headcounts, etc. (which they didn’t do). How would this have helped Natalee? She would still be missing. She made choices to leave her friends, to not stick w/someone else at all times, and that mistake cost the poor thing. She was 18 and at 18 we think we’re indestructable

    260. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:18 pm

      domenico: you are ILLITERATE. Your post made no sense.

    261. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 12:19 pm

      i won’t be able to deal with this for the remaining 105 days! that’s asking too much from a nosey american!

    262. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 12:19 pm

      Jgirl have you not read any of the recent posts over the past 2 weeks? The chaperones were merely there to help keep up with their passports/travel arrangements, and in case there was a medical emergency, not to be babysitters.

    263. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:19 pm

      Domenico the mentally retarded Aruban is why the Netherlands and liberal places like it are going downhill economically! What a lowlife!

    264. Mike on June 20th, 2005 12:20 pm

      Agree 100%….these parents, chaperones, and natalee’s roommates ought to go to jail on this as well. Explain the rationale of letting 140 18 year olds go to a place where they can drink all night with 7 adults??? Many of the adults too hammered themselves to even make it home most nights anyway?? If these kids are responsible enough to drink, how come they need 7 adults to “carry” their passports. It makes NO sense. I’m sorry, I feel horrible for Natallee, she is the victim, but everyone else on that trip is at fault. Also, if they (the chaperones and other parents)had any guts, they would be out in the media, defending themselves, but they don’t they and neither do the rest of these parents in “The Beverly Hills of Birmingham”

    265. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:21 pm

      Mike, you have a point but “what’s been done is done”. that still doesn’t make it Natalee’s fault that some evil befell her. Let’s get the evil-doer!

    266. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:23 pm

      I don’t blame the chaperones at all, and I don’t think anyone else should either. The only one to blame here is Joran and the brothers (last one to see her), and the Aruban authorities for not finding her. The victims in this cas are Natalee her family and her friends. Let’s not forget that!

    267. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:24 pm

      amen, jake

    268. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 12:26 pm

      msnbc said that croes had a hearing this morning to see if they can still hold him. no ruling as yet.

      think he’s still the ‘mule’? nancy grace thought it was odd that just by the mentioning of a name they were able to bring him in.

    269. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:28 pm

      If I were NH mother, I would hire Nancy Grace as my personal spokesperson! Is she awesome or what? She tells it like it is! I know that sometimes she rubs people the wrong way, But I think she’s awesome!!!!

    270. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 12:29 pm

      If I were Natalee’s parents I would be fuming as well. This is really taking too long. I really don’t know what I would do – probably be stalking the police station quite a bit. Or looking for an assassin to take care of those (3) punks once they are released. After all, what happens in Aruba stays in Aruba! I keep hearing that progress is being made, but I just don’t see it.

      People need to give the chaperone thing a break. Most of the kids were 18, and if they decide to go off and bang someone the last night of vacation no chaperone is going to stop that. I’m not saying this is what happened, I’m just making a case that chaperones can only do so much. And if I were Natalee’s roommate and she hadn’t retuned yet, I would’ve assumed that she did indeed hook up with someone the night before. I would not immediately call the cops.

      This whole thing is starting to reach the pathetic stage. Maybe authorities are waiting for Sloot Sr. to be appointed judge…so that he can vindicate his own son. What a joke.

      And by the way, Sol is a parent…and does have a daughter.

    271. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:36 pm

      Sol – Can you imagine if Sloot Sr. would be the one to sentence his son. His punishment would be no drinking and gambling for a whole month!!! What a joke.

    272. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 12:38 pm

      You are not allowed access to the family video camera for a whole month, Little Sloot!

    273. crs on June 20th, 2005 12:39 pm

      Sloot Sr. must be a real jackass for NH’s stepdad to come out say “He’s an arrogant, scum bag”.

    274. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:47 pm

      crs-I agree. I am now more convinced than ever that Sloot Sr. is covering up his sons crime. Where do the Kalpoe brothers fit in? Why are things so quiet with them? Where are their parents? What do they look like? Why haven’t they petitioned to see them? Does anyone know?

    275. crs on June 20th, 2005 12:50 pm

      I wonder about the Kalpoe brothers too? There is theory floating that Joran is innocent but the authorities are doing everything to make it look like he was thoroughly investigated before they cut him loose and it is the Kalpoe brothers that are really guilty.

    276. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:50 pm

      Just got back from lunch….Did anyone understand Domenico’s post?

    277. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:50 pm

      The Kalpoes’ photo has been shown millions of times on TV. Jake, where have you been hiding?

    278. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:51 pm

      Domenico is an escaped looney who is also illiterate….probably strung out on that “good Dutch weed”

    279. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:51 pm

      domenico-for the record. We (THE WORLD) are MAD ABOUT THE COVERUP! It’s as Simple as that.

    280. Trisher on June 20th, 2005 12:53 pm

      I think Jake meant what do the Kalpoe’s parents look like.

    281. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:53 pm

      leopard queen – sorry, I mean the Kalpoes’ parents. I haven’t heard or seen them? Who are they? Where are they?

    282. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 12:55 pm

      Oh my, Sol is really running out of patience.

      All this delay is just a cover-up for the little Sloot. It is so glaringly obvious. If these Aruban authorities (aka idiots) had anything of substance on the wire taps they probably destroyed it.

      But CRS brings up a good point about the Kapone brothers. Did their parents disown them? Where’s the support?

      Natalee’s mom needs to enlist the services of the mafia for this job. I’m all about an eye-for-an-eye.

    283. Jake on June 20th, 2005 12:57 pm

      I don’t believe that the Kalpoe brothers are guilty, and Joran is innocent, I think it’s the other way around. Lets face it. NH left with them because of Joran. Not because of the brothers. The one Natalee was interested in was Joran, so it wouldn’t make sense for them to drop off Joran and stay with Natalee.

    284. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 12:58 pm

      an Italian-American 73 yr old woman who wears leopard & still dates, dances & can catch a Man’s eye: Yes, sol, I am in agreement: Let’s call in BRUNO from Queens!

      Jake, I believe the Kalpoes are “boys on the prowl”….teens/young adults who have disinterested or retarded parental units

    285. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 12:59 pm

      RED AND TOM: please thrown the Domenico the Aruban off this board! He is vile and threatening and I am sure he is demon-possessed

    286. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 1:01 pm

      Can you guys feel the love?!

    287. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:01 pm

      domenico, buddy- you need to get yourself a thesaurus and spell check!

    288. scaredshitless on June 20th, 2005 1:02 pm

      the news anchors are pronouncing “Joran” much like “Urine”

      And yellow piss he is!

    289. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:02 pm

      I think domenico is Paul van der Sloots bastard son!!!!!

    290. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 1:03 pm

      Jake, I think “Domenico” is just a plain BASTARD

    291. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:05 pm

      Jake – I wish “G” would come back to the boards.

    292. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:05 pm

      scaredshitless “Urine” – That is hilarious. I think the J is silent, and the O is pronounced like a U.

    293. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:08 pm

      crs-G, oh my Gosh, where is G???? I think he was spotted this weekend buying a new Prada man bag!

    294. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:11 pm

      I think he’s in jail somewhere for beating his almost wife to death. He had some anger issues.

    295. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:13 pm

      crs- i work at a television station, and news like that hasn’t hit here yet, but I will be on the lookout for a story like that!!! hahahahah Maybe he’s smoking a big fat joint with his best friend domenico!

    296. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:14 pm

      Domenico has some big-time issues as well.

    297. leopardqueen on June 20th, 2005 1:15 pm

      I am sure Domenico is writing from a jail cell.

    298. trina on June 20th, 2005 1:19 pm

      CRS- It just doesn’t add up. If she wanted to stay up all night she would have stayed with the group when they (i believe) went to another club. It sounds like she was ready to call it a night. I read somewhere than C&C said Sunday nights are really slow. Unless she did have a thing for Joran and they rest of the group had enough of him so she had to choose between Joran and the group.

    299. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:28 pm

      are we going to just go around in circles speculating for the next 105 days? we need some real news!!!

    300. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 1:30 pm

      No pktbk, we’re going to be entertained by idiots like Domenico

    301. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:32 pm

      pktbk – you said it.

    302. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:32 pm

      he’s a little intense. maybe it’s his 7th grade reading mentality that has him so highstrung.

    303. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:35 pm

      After this weekend do more of you think Joran’s dad is involved in the coverup, possible dumping of NH’s body?

    304. dallas texan on June 20th, 2005 1:36 pm

      Does anyone realize that most of these kids were 18 and had graduated high school? In just a few months these same kids will be going off to college where they wont have chaperones and will be staying out all hours of the night. Everyone acts as if they were “children” on the trip which is not the case. Who knows if Natalee’s leaving with these gentleman was innocent or not. As someone who has traveled alot its easy to make friends with the locals . What happened to Natalee could happen to any 30 year old!

    305. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:39 pm

      CNN-Croes will remain in jail!

    306. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:41 pm

      crs-Yes, daddy is definetly in on the cover-up.

    307. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 1:41 pm

      I don’t know what to think anymore. Probably just another interrogation so the Aruban police can feel like they’re doing something … trying to follow up with their comment “No one stands above the law here” …

    308. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:41 pm

      it wasn’t so much the age of these ‘kids’, it was the fact that in signing agreements and being told that the ‘chaperones’ would be there to keep an eye on them, and they didn’t follow through on what they signed up for.

      i am really exhausted from going over the blame the chaperone, the kid’s were old enough convos. i want to hear the status of the investigation.

      could someone answer this question for me? if and when this is all said and done, if God forbid they all get off, would this case be able to be tried in the U.S. because the victim was american?

    309. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:42 pm

      I just heard Natalee’s stepfather in an interview saying that he met VDS and that he is “sick and made his stomach turn”.

    310. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:43 pm

      he remains in jail? wow. i wonder how full their jails are with all the people they hold during investigations?

      crs-i think the dad was involved somehow. hopefully not to dump a body, but maybe the sex slave thing.

    311. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:43 pm

      On another board – I am hearing of report on fox saturday night that Dario the aruban newspaper is reporting that NH is being moved house to house on aruba with a goal of getting her to Venezuela – can anyone confirm this story – did anyone else see this on fox?

    312. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 1:45 pm


      What would make you think that b/c it was an American it would be tried in the US?????

      When people from America committ crimes against people from other coutries we don’t deport our Citizens to have them be tried elsewhere!!

      Give me a Break!! ROFL

    313. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 1:46 pm

      Jake, I am at work, could you please keep us posted with what CNN is saying. Croes is going to remain in jail!!! Oh, he’s definitely got something to do with it and at this point, I strongly feel like the Aruban officials know a hell of a lot more than what they are informing the media!! Why would they keep Croes in jail if they don’t have something concrete??

    314. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 1:46 pm

      Joran probably ran to dad as soon as he was released the 1st time. Daddy probably gave Jr. a good beatin’ for doin’ the deed. And finally, Sr. took care of the evidence. If they can’t find her (body), they’ll never be able to prove anything.

      Guys, this really sucks.

    315. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:47 pm

      i went to but it’s not in english. i can see her name and infared though.

    316. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 1:48 pm

      I did crs…….it was quite interesting. It was on Saturday night, Fox At Large I do believe. A man who owns a newspaper in Aruba was on the phone doing an interview with the news anchor. He said they were taking her (Natalee) from Columbia to Venequela.

    317. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:48 pm

      At this point we just throw everyone in jail – pretty soon the whole island will be behind bars.

    318. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:49 pm

      lizzie…ever heard of extradition?

    319. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:50 pm

      Vanessa – thanks for the confirmation – I wonder why it has not gotten more play on the news.

    320. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 1:50 pm

      CRS…the way that things have been going..that’s what’s going to happen:-)

    321. Jake on June 20th, 2005 1:52 pm

      Maybe they are going to keep him in jail so that he can’t talk to the media. What if he (Croes) has nothing to do with it, it would just keep pointing the finger at Joran. If they keep him in jail, now people start to think that maybe he did it, not Joran! COVERUP.

    322. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 1:53 pm

      crs, I got the impression they think this guy is not wrapped too tight. Won’t it be awesome if it does turn out to be true and he finds Natalee alive!!

    323. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:54 pm

      Vanessa – at this point I think that is the best case scenerio for sure.

    324. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 1:54 pm

      vanessa…or at least cracks quickly and tells them where they can find her at least!

    325. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 1:57 pm


      Extradition based on What? Extradition is when someone commits a crime in one country and FLEES to another country. The country they are hiding in would the Extradite him back to the coutry where the crime was committed.

      The US can’t just waltz into another country and seize one of their citizens b/c they DARED to committ a crime against an American.

      this is laughable and arrogant that you would think the US should act in such a way.

    326. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 1:57 pm

      that’s a fact! This fellow said he is spending his own money & doing his own investigation………said he got his information from a very reliable source. According to this fellow, it’s part of the cartel and he even had a description of what type of car they would be travelling in!

    327. crs on June 20th, 2005 1:59 pm

      I would like to know how many people “disappear” in Aruba each year and if this is a dirty little secret.

    328. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:04 pm

      then what is the point of having the fbi investigating? we won’t be able to do anything with the information gathered. it’s all up to one judge? why doesn’t the u.s. have an embassy in that country?

    329. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:06 pm

      crs-sounds like it very well could be. like i said, what happens to people that disappear and their families can’t afford to go down and get in their face like natalee’s family.

    330. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 2:07 pm

      Because the FBI is more equipt and used to dealing with murders. Aruba has only one or two murders every year and normally they are solved quickly. The FBI is aiding in the investitation but Aruba won’t compromise their legal system to let them interrogate.

    331. crs on June 20th, 2005 2:08 pm

      Someone on another board is wondering is Joran and his dad are pimps, I don’t know whether to laugh or take it seriously.

    332. crs on June 20th, 2005 2:10 pm

      I don’t know that i believe Aruba has only one or two murders a year, it is common for vacation getaways to cover up crime.

    333. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:11 pm

      crs-lol sad but true.

      i don’t think joran would be a pimp. i think the boys were used to get the girls, just because it would be easier and less attention drawing than an older man hanging around.

    334. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 2:12 pm

      Look, all you guys trying to make Natalee seem as an angel, well, let’s face the fact! you can blame Aruba, the 3 guys, the chaperone’s, etc. etc. But this would have never been a problem if she didn’t get in the car with the 3 guys! I’m not blaming her for what happened. God helps she is still alive! But let’s be realistic, if she was a little more carefull nothing would have happened. And all you guys saying that they were teens, etc. Well, I guess they planned it out well, coming to an island where they knew that they could drink how much they want! And they did!! Natalee could be an honor student, as they said she was. but that doesn’t mean that she would not drink, have sex or something else. When a teenager gets the chance to do something, that she normally is prohibited to do, SHE WILL DO IT in most cases. Honor student or not!

      And I’m not defending anybody, but all you guys who are saying that Joren’s parents did a bad job raising him, I want to know your opinion of Natalee’s parents. Because a parent should teach her 18 year old daughter not to get in a car with 3 guys BY YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

      by the way, all the ones who are trying to Boycot Aruba, get a grip, if this had happened in the US what would you have done, boycot the US???? that’s so stupid. Don’t blame the island for a stupid choice of the girl.
      Aruba as any other country has it’s good and bad side. But americans have to stop being so narrow-minded and look around in their own country. Aruba is 1000 times safer than the US will ever be. Just compare the statistics of crime and missing persons.

      Yeah, it’s true that the case is taking too long! (20 days) I remember that Elizabeth Smart was Found in 10 days! NOT!! you know how long it took! SO GET A GRIP!!!
      Carlos & charlies, is not to blame for what people do! Some girls dance so sleazy and act so slutty not only when they are drunk, and when guys hit on them they want to get mad!! I’m not saying that Natalee was doing that, but look at all what’s happening on spring breaks! I mean girls get so wild and drunk! How many times girls get raped during spring break? THAT’s in the US!! Now, on case in Aruba, and Aruba is the worst place ever!!!

      I Hope americans realise that their country is not such a great and safe place, and if Natalee would have gotten in a car with 3 guys in a car in the US, maybe she would have been found already raped and chopped -up at the side of the road! I Hope and pray that she is still alive!

    335. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 2:13 pm
    336. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:13 pm

      then why wasn’t the fbi not called in when the bradley girl was named as missing?

      i highly doubt their crime rate is actually that low. they sound like a huge sweep it under the rug kind of country.

    337. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 2:13 pm

      are you from Aruba Lizzie? I have to agree with pktbk….seems pointless to send the FBI down there just to “assist”… they may be more equipped and used to dealing with murders, but whose to say this is a “murder”? It could be human trafficking, which if that is the case, I do believe the FBI would have some jurisdiction since it is an American that may be involved……………..

    338. crs on June 20th, 2005 2:17 pm

      There is a report on Aruba of a fifth arrest, someone with the initial “A” – also it is being reported that a number of items a piece of foam with teethmarks, a shirt and a couple of other things are part of the NH situation. Originally, these items were dismissed as not being involved.

    339. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:20 pm

      popy-there’s no doubt that she made a stupid costly mistake. no one is denying that.

      the stats between the u.s. and aruba are grossly out of proportion. i don’t know if you realize, but the u.s. has quite a few more people to throw the comparison out the window.
      and the attack on aruba is not so much about this happening to one u.s. girl, it’s the way their government is handling the case. a lot of the frustration is the difference in their judicial system, something we are not used to. that causes huge problems. it just seems they were very lazy in the onset of the investigation. if her parents hadn’t went down and gotten the world involved, they would have still been taking it slow.

    340. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:24 pm

      wow bahmnativegirl-that was intense!

      you are right vanessa. they would have to have some say in all this or they are wasting their time.

    341. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 2:32 pm

      Just for your info, I don’t think Arubans are so stupid to put Joren’s Father as the Judge in this case!!! By you thinking that it shows how narrow-minded you are! Come one, can you guys just wake-up and look around you! Stop pointing fingers and look at your own country! The US isn’t such a paradise!! It’s not like girls never go missing in the US. In Aruba they can say that! The amount of missing person in the US in a month, is not even to compare to ARUBA in 10 years!

    342. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 2:33 pm

      The United States does not have jurisdiction outside its borders. That doesn’t mean that we can’t offer our expertise and hi tech equipment to aid another country.

    343. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:34 pm

      popy….i hope you don’t think that anyone here thought his dad would be the judge over this case. i don’t think you read correctly.

      no one said the u.s. was the safest country either. at least we report when people go missing.

    344. AnnapolisArubaFan on June 20th, 2005 2:34 pm

      Sol Rosenberg Says:

      June 20th, 2005 at 11:50 am
      Annapolis – My quotes from Natalee’s step dad were directly from his interview on FOX last night at 10:00 PM EST. He said that van der sloot’s dad was an “obnoxious” “scum-bag” and that, based on their conversation, he knew with confidence that Sloot Sr. knows what went down that night. I didn’t make any of that up, and I’m sure FOX will air this again today.

      Thanks, Sol. At least someone in the family realizes that the investigation was blown as soon as little boy Sloot got to consult with daddy-counsel. Good points, all. And here’s one more thing to chew on– why hasn’t Aruba’s official reward gone to $1million? That is the kind of cash that might move things forward…finally.

    345. crs on June 20th, 2005 2:35 pm

      Popy’s pissed!

    346. Jake on June 20th, 2005 2:37 pm

      5th arrest???? I am watching CNN and they have said nothing about a 5th arrest.

    347. Jake on June 20th, 2005 2:40 pm

      Popy-The Joran’s father thing WAS A JOKE. Just like the way the Aruban Authorities conduct an investigation IT’S A JOKE. YES, we know that lots of “bad things” happen here in the US too, nobody is denying that. Can’t you see the BIG PICTURE here. What everyone is trying to say is that THE INVESTIGATION IS A JOKE. IT’S A COVERUP.

    348. crs on June 20th, 2005 2:45 pm

      On the 5th arrest – I read that from a local who is posting on another board – he knew about the boat kid the day before so he has been pretty reliable.

    349. Jake on June 20th, 2005 2:47 pm

      I never did buy the story of the Aruban authorities letting the 3 sispects go for 10 days to “do a surveillance” on them for more info on the case.
      That would have been smart move, something too smart for the STUPID polis. I

    350. Jake on June 20th, 2005 2:48 pm

      crs-where is the otehr board?

    351. crs on June 20th, 2005 2:52 pm

      Go to the scared monkeys main page and the board has about 114 posts. It is the one right above this one.

    352. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 2:53 pm

      pktbk- Just want to tell you, that americans can’t get everything their way! if the judicial system of Aruba is different than the US, you should learn to live with it! It’s true that in Aruba they have less people, but still, if you compare it to one city or state, is a big different! A tourist never dissapeared on Aruba! This is the first time that it happened! And just for your info, The whole island is shocked and is trying to solve this case! And Natalee’s parents said that thereself!!

    353. Mauricio Dolce on June 20th, 2005 2:54 pm


      I have two boys that I will not allow to travel in identical conditions.
      I don’t have a problem with alcohol and drugs, I have a problem with allowing a naive 18 years old kids to a sudden all out freedom with alcohol, drugs, sex and gambeling with a very poor supervision.

      I saw american kids COMPLETELY wasted in the streets of Amesterdam, they have no experience to deal with such feedom and suddenly.

      I read some where that the organizer who happen to be a friend of Natalee’s mother, defended herself by stating that EVERY THING was in writing and signed by the parents. She also stated that the 7 “chaperones” were seniors who were also in vacation, here you have insufficient number, complacant seniors with no experience AND in vacation themself.

      Natalee is an innocent victim but not the adults, give me a break!

    354. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 2:58 pm

      popy-there is no way you can convince me that this is the very first missing person case in aruba….ever. come on.
      i may be out there in hoping that an american trial and jury can clean this mess up, but i’m not THAT naive. aruba has just done a better job at covering up such cases. we don’t hide the truth, we search for it.

      mauricio-you are telling us that she went out looking to be kidnapped? she was a willing participant in all of this? no means no jerk.

    355. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:00 pm

      JAke, why are you so SURE that it’s a coverup and that it’s a joke???? Are you doing an investigation yourself right now in Aruba!! Well, then you should investigate her own friends who left her here, without reporting that she’s missing!

    356. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:06 pm

      pktbk, I didn’t say it was the first person missing!! SHE’S THE FIRST ATOURIST THAT WENT MISSING!!! There are other missing persons, but locals. But those cases are almost 10 years ago. And those cases indicated that the persons commited suicide! but that is about 3 cases! no more!!!
      If you don’t want to believe it, don’t! But that’s the fact!

    357. crs on June 20th, 2005 3:06 pm

      Everyone stop pissing POPY off!!

    358. crs on June 20th, 2005 3:07 pm

      POPY – What do you think happened out of curiousity?

    359. Mauricio Dolce on June 20th, 2005 3:09 pm


      READ my posting “Natalee is an innocent victim”

      The girl may never have been anywhere out of her town before, is it reasonable to allow her to go in such sudden and major change of environement with very little precaution?

      I personally think that drinking age should be 18 as the driver licence and that MJ should be allowed, Dutch kids consume very little or none.

      Every forbidden fruit will be seeked and abused.

    360. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:09 pm

      I Really wonder if an aruban girl, or a girl of any other country, would have gone missing in the US, that the US would have done all that the people on the island are doing!! Some people didn’t go to work to go help search for Natalee. I mean, it seems that no mather what they do, Americans will never be satisfied!

    361. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 3:13 pm

      mauricio-the environment she was in is no different than a frat party at a college. that doesn’t mean her going gives guys a right to do what they want with her just because she showed up. that’s all i’m saying.

    362. Jake on June 20th, 2005 3:16 pm

      WE Americans are very easily satisfied! I realize all the efforts the aruban people have made to find Natalee. What I am upset about are the Polis (authorities) in Aruba that are investigating the case. You know what Popy, if at the end of the day, Joran is guilty, and sentenced, and they already know this and are working with him to find out where Natalee is, then I will apologize to you.

    363. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:18 pm

      crs, I think that 2 things could have happened. First is that she might have drinking so much and got intoxicated, over maybe even gotten an overdose. In panic, the guys got scared and maybe did something to the body!

      Or Maybe she is still alive and hiding willingly! just because of things that she wrote of wanting to be free, etc. So it’s not impossible that she just didn’t want to go back to the US! Because I find it a little strange that her friends would leave her bags at the hotel when they wnet to the airport, and just went back to the US without her! I just not normal to go back and leave somebody behind!!

      if something bad happened to her, I don’t think it was intentionally! If it was, the guys would have done it the first day they met. She just was in “love” with Joren, I think, And wanted to go with him and spent some time together. What happened then, I don’t know! But Whatever happened I don’t think was intentionally!
      But I have a strong feeling that she is still alive, and just didn’t want to go baxk to Alabama!! I think they should interogate the friends and parents!!
      THAT’s my opinion!

    364. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 3:21 pm

      PoPy, if your economy’s survival is soley based on tourism alone and there was a chance that the integrity of your police officials was being questioned as to how they are handling this case, ie: stupid decisions that the police officals have made like releasing the boys for ten days, then you too would bust your ass trying to mend the situation and make like you are doing everything within your power to find out what happened. Bottom line: Everything that is supposedly being done now, should have been done in the beginning. The whole integrity of this case has been compromised!

    365. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:22 pm

      well, Jake, I hope you stick to your word! Because I believe that the polis in Aruba are doing their best to solve this case!! Because we don’t hear anything doesn’t mean they don’t have a lead or something! Because of all the media, they are more carefull of what they say! Because the media is constantly giving out wrong info! But that doesn’t mean they are not doing their job!

    366. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 3:23 pm

      thank you fashionqueen!

    367. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 3:25 pm

      You are very welcome, pktbk!!

    368. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:26 pm

      Fashionqueen, I don’t know if you knew, But when they released them, I think they had them under surveillance! And I guess that’s when the guys said or did something that gave them away! So, maybe the polis know more than we think they know!!

    369. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 3:27 pm

      i think it’s noteworthy to mention that aruba was on bill clinton’s list of countries known for drug trafficking and other illicit dealings….they were number six.

    370. Jake on June 20th, 2005 3:28 pm

      Yes, the media constantly gives out wrong info, like when they stated that Natalee was taken back to the Holiday Inn and approched by 2 security guards dressed in black!

    371. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:28 pm

      I aslo taught as you did, “why did they let them go”. It was obvious, that they were the main suspects! But if they had them under surveillance they got more info than they would have gotten if they remained in jail! My Opinion!

    372. Mauricio Dolce on June 20th, 2005 3:29 pm


      I have no dissagreemnt with what you just said except that, a frat party in the US is limited to a house and is not as an offshore foreign Island!

      If a frat party get out of control, kids knows that Police will break the party, make arrests, inform College/University and parents.

      Our suuport, grieve and sympathy for Natalee shouldn’t blind us from examining the adults responsibilities and our culutur/values.

    373. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:31 pm

      can I ask what drug-trafficking really has to do with this case!????? I really don’t see the link! A girl willingly getting into a car with 3 young guys and then dissapeared! And drug-trafficking! What’s the link?????????????

    374. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 3:32 pm

      PoPy –

      You’re right. She fell madly in love with Joran, and said to herself, “Oh what the hell, I’ll throw away my scholarship and my life in America just to be with Juran. I can always catch a flight back to the States in a month-or-two.” And I’m sure Juran killed her, but it must’ve been unintentionally.

      Or maybe the butler did it.

      Make sure you pass that theory onto the Aruban authorities so they can wind this case up.


    375. Jake on June 20th, 2005 3:34 pm

      But Popy, obviously there was no surveillance. They would have had something already. I think the Aruban authorities had NO idea how big this case was going to get. I sometimes say to myself. Why this case, why Natalee Holloway? So many people go missing. Why has this case brought so much attention and media to Aruba and so many people talking about Natalee Holloway? I don’t know. I hope she was on her way to being sold to sex slavery and that now the kidnappers don’t know what to do with her after seeing all the publicity with this case. I hope that she is not dead, but let’s face it. Either she was kiddnapped to be sold, or is dead, and which ever one it is, Joran and friends in some way are responsible. So why haven’t they talked?

    376. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:35 pm

      Stop looking at other things that don’t have anything to do in this case!

    377. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 3:38 pm

      PoPy, Excuse my french, but that is bullshit…atleast about the surveillance…that’s just another cop out for why they made a dumb decision like releasing them in the first place…You see what they did was, placed blame to buy time. The police had absolutely no hard evidence to keep those security guards in jail for as long as they did. They went soley on the word of three teenagers with no evidence..Can you explain that one to me???

    378. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 3:39 pm

      Popy, everything needs to be looked at in this case..are you working with the Aruban police or something?

    379. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 3:39 pm

      popy-the drug trafficking has links to the human trafficking and other illegal doings. sorry i didn’t clarify for you.

      i am thinking on the lines of the sex slavery, that kind of thing goes hand in hand with the drugs. for so many people to be involved, this is way bigger than date rape. there is another side of this that we just have to wait and see unfold.


    380. TL C on June 20th, 2005 3:40 pm

      Is there a connection in the name Rudy Croes- Minister of Justice
      and Steven Gregory Croes – Arrested 4th suspect in custody?

    381. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:41 pm

      Uhm, where do you get your info???? Who kidnapped her to be sold????? the 3 young guys?????? OH PLEASE!!!!!!!! Have you ever been to Aruba???????? They don’t Kidnap people or even sell people!!

      Ans SOL, what is you theory about this?? That Joren is a cold blooded killer and just wanted to kill some girl that night!!

    382. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 3:42 pm


      What other things are you referring to? FashionQueen is right…

    383. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 3:45 pm

      popy-the boys would have no clue on how to do this. they would be just runners. like i said earlier, they are less obvious than an older man scoping girls out to take. this is all theory on my part, but not far from the truth. they may not do that kind of thing on your island, but boats could take them to other countries.

    384. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 3:45 pm

      Popy, how old are you if you don’t mind me asking?

    385. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 3:46 pm

      My theory is that all (3) of those little pricks are guilty. And when the Aruban authorities were dumb enough to let them walk, they ran to Sloot Sr. for advice. And if they were able to dispose of the body, like daddy advised, there would be no way to convict the kids.

      My theory works much better than yours.

    386. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:46 pm

      Well, FashionQ. I’m not an polis so, I can’t say anything! I’m just telling you what’s been said!!

      And to pktbk, Where did you get your info!! Human trafficking???? Please, They are more people getting to Aruba then getting out of Aruba!!!

    387. R on June 20th, 2005 3:46 pm

      bama native girl:

      That site was intense. Did you read “you are just a bunch of ‘C-r-a-b’?

      I think everyone seems to be losing patience — what if this is something like international? They not only have the FBI, they have Richard Shelby and other big
      folks doing everything they can. Whose were the other two boats (not the Tattoo)
      that were being searched?

      Anything anyone knows in Alabama (folks who were with her, her parents, etc.) now must first do nothing that would compromise any investigation before they talk about it in public. Whatever that father did or said to Natalee’s step-father must have been b-a-d, uncaring or unkind. He was too angry.
      There is so much we do not know. We
      can still hope not only Natalee but maybe other innocent people are found, you know,
      and a bunch of money-power hungry losers are caught. It’s not over yet. Like
      Natalee’s mom said, this is only the beginning. We hope so!

    388. Jake on June 20th, 2005 3:47 pm

      TLC – it may very well be. If so, then there goes another suspect. COVERUP!!! I know that the Polis Spokesperson is Mariane Croes, and the newspaper stated – no relationship to one another.

      POPY – Is it so hard for you to believe that Joran is a cold blooded killer?? Why?? Of course he is a killer. EVEN if your theory of it being an “accident”, and they panicked is correct, the fact that they are making NH mother suffer so many days not knowing what happened to her daughter to me = COLD BLOODED. Wouldn’t you say?

    389. crs on June 20th, 2005 3:48 pm

      Bham – I wondered the same thing. I admire Popy’s nationalism to some extent but the views seem of someone very young and immature.

    390. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 3:50 pm

      thank you R….

      there are more people getting to aruba than getting out, popy? and i didn’t get my info from anywhere, i said that was all my theory and thoughts, not fact.

    391. crs on June 20th, 2005 3:50 pm

      Croes is a very common name in that area much like Smith in the states.

    392. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 3:51 pm

      And PoPy, the whole trafficking thing is more than likely to happen and you wouldn’t know it. Things like that are what we call apart of the underworld…You hear about it and you know it goes on, but you don’t see it….Not unless something like this happens and it is brought out into the open.

    393. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 3:52 pm

      OH, yes SOL!! I AGREE WITH YOU!! I think the 3 guys all are the ones who they should charge!! But Of what happened We can’t say anything! We weren’t there!!! And when all comes out we fill know who’s right!!
      I believe everyone should be punished if they had something to do with it! But What I’m not agreeing with is that people are picturing Aruba as such a bad place just because of one case!

    394. Jake on June 20th, 2005 3:53 pm

      Sol – as for your theory of Sloot Sr. helping. I totally think the same thing. Each passing day I think it more and more. How smart can a 17, 19, and 21 year old be. I mean could have these kids committed the “PERFECT CRIME” on there own? Is there such thing as THE PERFECT CRIME, and getting away w/ murder?

    395. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 3:58 pm

      I never said I wouldn’t visit Aruba, but let’s be honest. The Aruban authorities make Barney Fife look pretty damn brilliant.

      Had they grabbed these kids and squeezed them individually this case may have been solved weeks ago. My money says Sloot Sr. knows all…

    396. Jake on June 20th, 2005 3:59 pm

      Popy- We don’t think Aruba is a bad place. Aruba is a beautiful “corrupted” paradise.
      And Popy, you sound as though you already know the story that the Polis there is going to come up with. BREAKING NEWS HEADLINE STORY:

      “Natalee wanted to be FREE, so she asked Joran to lend her half a million dollars so that she could go off to another country (without her clothes), and start a brand new life!!

    397. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:00 pm

      it wasn’t aruba that i felt so angry at. it was the frustration with the laziness of their police staff. they don’t have the resources needed when bad things happen. even if it doesn’t happen that often, you should have these things on stand by. like body sniffing dogs. how helpful would that have been the first few days?

    398. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 4:01 pm


    399. TL C on June 20th, 2005 4:01 pm

      Very common name, maybe, but given the obvious difficulty in getting the co-operation necessary to bring forth a viable story (much less a witness), and considering the volume of people that seem to “know something” it isn’t a stretch to surmise that authorities are trying to supress something. I mean, giving the guys initials first, “SGC”, as if just in case he doesnt get arrested his character wont be besmirched, give me a break. The Security guards names were all over the press shortly after they were detained.

    400. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:03 pm

      You can say anything you want!! If you think that I’m immature or whatever!! But I’m just open-minded about this case! I’m not one to go pointing fingers if I don’t know! How can I blame somebody if I don’t know what happened! I wasn’t there! I didn’t know those 3 guys! I cannot defende them and say that they didn’t do anything wrong! But I can’t be 100% sure that they killed her either! The only thing I’m sure is that Aruba is not such an island as it’s now being portrayed! And it’s very sad to see and hear people that haven’t even been to Aruba trash-talking the island! If I’m so IMMATURE, tell all Americans to be more mature and just accept that this has happened and stop being narrow-minded and coming up with all other things about drug-trafficking and human-trafficking! COME ON!!! Stick to the facts!!!!!!!!! People are coming with a bunch of lame excusses for what happened. The fact is that she made a stupid choice!!

    401. crs on June 20th, 2005 4:04 pm

      A poster on another board says that on an aruban board it is said that the Steve Croes guys supplied drugs to boys, NH overdosed, the boys did all rape her and all that is unknown is where and/or what was done with the body. Thoughts?

    402. Jake on June 20th, 2005 4:05 pm

      pktbk – the FBI offered ALL their resources and were turned down!

    403. BhamNativeGirl on June 20th, 2005 4:05 pm

      Wasn’t an Aruban radio station reporting Friday or Saturdy that they have good reason to believe Natalee is still alive? Did anyone hear that? Why would they be reporting this?

    404. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 4:08 pm

      TLC, I completely agree with you. They smeared those security guards names all over the news like they had hard core evidence and isn’t it funny how karma works, that it would be that same security guard that actually gave you your first real lead by having a conversation with one of the boys….Just real suspect…..

    405. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:11 pm

      popy-i’m not hatin’ on your stupid island! in six months this will all be forgotten. people are still going to go there. you will still get to see american tourists on a daily basis. it’s all good.

      if we were given more facts by the media and the police, then we would all be a lot happier. it’s this whole secretiveness to no disrupt the hearings that is such a joke. i’m not seeing any justice coming out of this at all.

      crs-i would not be surprised. as much drug pushing that was said to go on there, by the chaperones that did come forward. i would hope she didn’t od though. that is not the ending i was hoping for.

    406. Jake on June 20th, 2005 4:11 pm

      I think the Aruban authorities are trying to devert their attention from the Sloot kid. If they start spreading the rumors that she might be alive, then they cannot charge these kids with murder.

      Think of this for a moment. What if they (Joran and friends) admit to sending her off (with the DJ) to be sold to sex slavery in another country. What do you think happenes. Well I’ll tell you. The kids and DJ get charged with kidnapping, and then this makes Natalee’s family leave Aruba and start a search for Natalee somewhere else in another country. Wouldn’t that be the ideal situation for the Judge and the Prime Minister? Then when all the media leaves Aruba, the Sloot boy , the friends, and the DJ will be released.

    407. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:12 pm

      About the lastname “croes” just show how un-informed you are! The media never gives out the whole name untill they are sure! The lastname “croes” is just like “Jones”, Jackson.e tc. In the US! Does that means that they are related!! That seems a little immature to me! Why would you keep coming up with those little things! STICK TO THE FACTS PEOPLE!!!!
      and to Pktbk, have you been to Aruba helping the polis with this investigation, How can you say that they are being lazy?????? Come on, stop pointing fingeres at everybody else!! The polis are doing all they can!!
      SOL, I think you mean that the polis should have resolved the case in 10 days, just as the US polis did with the Elizabeth Smart case, and the LAcy Peterson case! Those cases where solved in a week right!!!!????? WOW!!

    408. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:16 pm

      popy-crs already clarified that croes is a common name on your island. chill out!
      everything here is mere speculation for the simple fact that we are not given facts. if we were given facts we could discuss them at length and not have to speculate so much.
      have you been out volunteering your time? shouldn’t you be out right now combing through seagrass? questioning suspicious characters? have you posted any flyers?

    409. crs on June 20th, 2005 4:17 pm

      Pktbk – your killing me, hillarious!!

    410. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:18 pm

      glad i can make you smile. we all need to take a deep breath and just calm down. my chest is getting tight.

    411. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 4:19 pm

      Human trafficking and drug trafficking is not so ridiculous a theory, PoPy, because things like that absolutely happen. Why don’t you use this as food for thought….If the polis were using as wide of a range with scenarios such as this maybe they would have better leads as to what happen..They should be checking every outlet to bring that girl back to her parents, dead(God Forbid) or alive

    412. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 4:19 pm

      you tell ‘em pktbk!!!

    413. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:19 pm

      pktbk, if you are not hating on my island, why would you call it stupid????? Look, if you want more facts, i guess you have to go to Aruba and enter in the investigation yourself! Because I don’t think they would give out more info unless they are 100% positive!! you see how the media is working, changing everything that is being said! I think that the polis are just waiting when they have everything solved to let this out!!

    414. crs on June 20th, 2005 4:22 pm

      Popy – How much time should the aruban authorities be given until they are open to criticism?

    415. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:22 pm

      just calling it stupid doesn’t mean i hate it. i call my cat stupid sometimes. but i still love her, she’s my alice. are all of your country’s trials and hearings done this way? no one hears of any crimes until it is said and done? just curious on how your system works. maybe that’s why you aren’t aware of the drugs there. it’s not on the news or made public until it’s done.

    416. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:26 pm

      Uhm, Pktbk, would you be posting flyers etc. if this would have happened in your country with a tourist????!!!! People are making such a big deal about this!! It’s not because of the American girl! I think Arubans are affraid of the outcome for the island! I think everybody should just back off and let the polis do their job! I pray to God that Natalee is alive and that she will return to her family soon! But I really hope to that justice will be surved. But I hope and pray that if it comes clear that all this was an accident, that people will accept this!

    417. VANESSA on June 20th, 2005 4:26 pm

      PoPy, stop wearing your heart on your sleeve. I didn’t take pktbk’s posts as calling your island stupid……………….we here in the US know how the media is. That is causing a big part of the frustration along with the differences in our legal systems. Lighten up………please???

    418. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 4:27 pm

      Wow, things are getting Fierce in here!

    419. crs on June 20th, 2005 4:27 pm

      Popy- You need to use this board as a vehicle to educate people rather than just rant and rave.

    420. crs on June 20th, 2005 4:29 pm

      Popy does make a good point – one good point – will we accept this as an accident? He does make a good point on that – I do not believe many of us would at this point.

    421. jahazafat on June 20th, 2005 4:30 pm

      Here here PoPy,
      I agree with your esteemed philosphies in all regards. It seems people have watched so much crime on TV they now expect all murders to be solved within the hour. The US has thousands of it’s own missing persons cases that the FBI has working jurisdiction on that are now being ignored thanks to the Holloway Twittys. America has a fine government and legal system and we have been lead to believe it is the best in the world when it’s merely the largest and others are just as functional and fair.

      Here’s soem excellent sources for info on date rape drugs. They are fast acting and make the vicitm appear very drunk which Natalee’s ‘friends’ assure us she was not. They can’t have it both ways…

      Since a foundation in Natalee’s honor to address teenage drinking wasn’t well received how about one to raise awareness of preventing date rape. Natalee deserves some good to come of this tragedy.

    422. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:30 pm

      oh, I know how the media is too, but still people keep believing everything the hear!! And excuse me for giving my opinion! And I’m aware about the drugs and everything! I just finded stupid that people keep coming up with every other excuse! Why can’t people stick to the facts! IF SOMETHING BAD HAD HAPPENED TO HER, wHO’S FAULT IS IT??

    423. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 4:30 pm

      What’s Up LizzieD? Where ya been???

    424. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:31 pm

      i have no problem posting flyers. i have posted them in the past. i don’t have a problem with it. i’m just wondering if you were involved because you were so defensive regarding your police force. i thought maybe in your support for them you were doing civic duties to help the case.

    425. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 4:32 pm

      I would not accept this as an accident because of one thing and one thing alone….they still haven’t come forward with the truth. If at all possible, these boys will take with them to their graves what happened to Natalee and that is a fact!

    426. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:33 pm

      crs-if we were given more info regarding the case as it goes along, that pill might be a little easier to swallow. i just feel so out of the loop on this one.

    427. Jake on June 20th, 2005 4:33 pm

      Popy – you said:
      “But I hope and pray that if it comes clear that all this was an accident, that people will accept this!

      Do you know something we don’t? Is that the word out in Aruba? Do the people in Aruba feel that Joran killed this girl “by accident”?

    428. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:34 pm

      fashionqueen: do you think this is a thick as thieves situation? i can’t believe none of them has sold the other out to save themselves. but i guess that is because of the no plea bargain rule. just wondering.

    429. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:34 pm

      Can’t educate if people don’t want to be educated! Everybody has their opinion! It’s easier to be open-minded about this case, then to point fingers and be narrow-minded!

    430. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:37 pm

      being open minded? you are being completely blind! you are only seeing what they tell you. are you one of those people that believe everything they are told to be fact? do you make any decisions on your own? i’m trying to not get caught up in this, but it’s so hard!!

    431. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:40 pm

      Oh, no, there’s nothing going on here that shows that it’s an accident! I’m just saying! Because accident can happen! It’s not like nobody ever died of an overdose or something, right?? So why can’t this be a posibility??? The guys are young too, maybe Natalee died of an overdose and they got scared and hid the body! couldn’t that have happened! I’m not saying that it did! But it can be a possibility!

    432. Sol Rosenberg on June 20th, 2005 4:40 pm


      Get real – the Aruban police are fucking incompetent. That whole story about releasing the (3) punks “on purpose” to place them under surveilence and tap their phones is BULLSHIT. That shit only works in the movies.

      They fucked up and are now doing damage control.

      Like I said, incompetent.

    433. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:44 pm

      popy-see, you just speculated. there’s nothing wrong with that. what you said is totally possible. not saying it’s not. just saying i wish we knew more of what the police have. i don’t understand how that compromises a case. that’s just me not knowing how their legal system works.

      sol-i agree on the damage control.

    434. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:44 pm

      pktbk, uhm, who do you mean??? the media. because I for one, never believe what I hear! And just for your info I never said I believe what I heard, I’m just giving my opinion! I know how Aruba is, and I’m just telling it from my point of view! Just want to know who’s fault it is if something bad had happened??? the polis, C&C, who???? Just want to know your opinion!

    435. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:47 pm

      Oh, Sure SOL!!! You are a polis officer yourself! You were in Aruba and you saw everything that the polis did!! And that’s why you are telling me now that you are 100% sure that the did not had them under surveillance!!! oh, o.k! I believe you!!!

    436. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:49 pm

      why is that so hard to believe! didn’t they do that in the lacy peterson case???!!!!! come on!!

    437. pktbk on June 20th, 2005 4:52 pm

      popy-i was commenting on your open minded comment. you were saying we should all be open minded. i think we are. we are open to all ideas. you were the one putting words in to our mouths about hating your country and pointing fingers. yeah, i might have pointed fingers at the suspects they already have in custody. and that was what i have been discussing on. the people we have been told are in question. i’m not going around the neighborhood calling out people i think were involved. i’m talking about the people the police have cornered.

    438. Jake on June 20th, 2005 4:52 pm

      Popy- What do you mean “Who’s fault is it if something bad happened”???? Like you mean if they were doing drugs and NH overdosed, and she died? If the boys are covering it up, then it is their fault. I see your point, but why not come clean?

    439. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 4:54 pm

      Pktbk: I do believe that is exactly the type of situation that we are dealing with. The only reason why we got a second story is because one of the brothers naively confided in another cell mate, not knowing who he was talking to and in return that security guard took that information and willingly handed it over to officials. Because of the no plea rule, it would be just as sufficient for them to wait it out and see what happens than for them to admit to the crime and be sentenced.

    440. LizzieD on June 20th, 2005 4:56 pm

      I agree. What a Lame attempt to look like police and come up with a Crap ASS story about releasing them to observe them. How freaking lame.

      I can see the interrogation:

      Aruba Police: So did you do it?

      Boys: “Um No”

      Aruba Polise: Ok. . have a dounut and go home. Sorry we bothered you.

    441. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 4:58 pm

      That’s true!! why not come clean??? that’s what we all have to wait for! but maybe they were just scared and made a stupid choice by hiddign her body!

    442. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 4:59 pm

      LizzieD…LOLLOLLOLLOL…you crack me up!!!

    443. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 5:03 pm

      Oh, Lizzie!! PLEASE!! be realistic!!! All 3 guys told the same story ad first and told polis that they dropped her off!!! NOW WE ALL NOW THAT WAS NOT TRUE and they are the prime suspects!! They are turning on eachother and their story has changed!! Whatever is going on, I believe that they will crack soon!! They will not hold it together! Now they are just blaming eachother!!

    444. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 5:07 pm

      And why do you guys think that the two brothers are blaming it all on the dutch guy? Why would they help him coverup, if he is the one who did something! Why help him coverup at first and now say that they don’t know what happened that they just dropped Natalee of with the Dutch guy!! I believe that they all are equally responsible! otherwise they wouldn’t have lied at first!

    445. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 5:14 pm

      And you have made an absolute valid point..I will agree with you on that one…It does seem suspicious that they would lie at first if they had nothing to do with it at all….hhmm

    446. Jake on June 20th, 2005 5:16 pm

      Why can’t the authorities tell the Holloway family what is going on with the investigation. If the boys admitted to killing her accidently, why can’t they give the Holloway family the closure they need for their daughter?

    447. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 5:21 pm

      That’s what I mean! That’s why I don’t even know if I should believe their story now!! That they dropped Joren with Natalee! Why come with that story now??/ If you had nothig to do with it, why lie!! on the otherhand Joren confessed another story to one of the security guards to! He said that he never wrote in his statement about the two guards! And that might be true, because the lawyers of the two guards never got the statement of JOREN! And when you don’t get a statement it’s because it’s not relevant to your client! So Joren didn’t write anything about the guards, but the two brothers did lie in their statement!! So, Now I really don’t buy their story that they dropped Joren of! I Believe that Joren told the truth, whatever that is, and they are now investigating if the two brothers really are responsible too!! Just my opinion!!

    448. PoPy on June 20th, 2005 5:23 pm

      But maybe they didn’t admitted yet!!! We don’t know!! Maybe if they did kill her they are waiting to find the body before they say anything!! But I still hope and have a feeling that she is alive, and maybe is hidding willingly!! It’s just a thought!

    449. fashionqueen on June 20th, 2005 5:24 pm

      Well people…Happy Blogging…going home….will get with you all tomorrow….Let’s all hope that a miracle happens for Natalee and her family!!!

    450. domenico the arubian don on June 20th, 2005 5:41 pm


      domenico, buddy- you need to get yourself a thesaurus and spell check!

      I think domenico is Paul van der Sloots bastard son!!!!!

      hahaa most i be insolted now try better man

      domenico-for the record. We (THE WORLD) are MAD ABOUT THE COVERUP! It’s as Simple as that.

      i can understand that your mad
      but some guys wright only crap about arubians like we all
      thugs and dumb ugly you name it
      so i have to respond

      about the coverup their could be a chance they will try to coverup
      look to the justice system all the judges in aruba are dutch all policechiefs are dutch you feeling me they control everything
      so it would be easy for them to coverup and if its come out
      they just blame the arubians simple as that
      just like in holland every day you hear about the antillian youths
      do drugstrafficking to holland they are small time the dutch navy
      in the antilles they are the biggest drugsmugglers to holland we all now that on the islands

      IF I HAD THE BRAINS of scaredshitless


    451. Hudsunn on June 20th, 2005 6:41 pm

      Does anyone know what plans Joran had for after graduation? We know that Natalee had a scholarship and planned to study pre-med. How about Joran?

    452. SteveDinMD on June 20th, 2005 7:53 pm


      I have an idea. If the “investigation” comes up dry, and Joran walks, we should set up a scholarship fund to send him to the University of Alabama. I’m sure he would enjoy the local “hospitality” and “friendly natives.” %^)

    453. alcatl on June 20th, 2005 10:59 pm

      Nutshell…Natalee felt safe. She was hanging out with a guy who is the son of a judge and seemingly respectable. I lived in B’ham, went to Alabama and made some bad disiciosions during my senior trip (going out on a date with someone I met on the trip). I was lucky!!! Natalee wasn’t and I just pray she is alive and we can track her down. She seems to be an excellent person and it is not her timne to die. I thoughts prayers and concerns go out to her family and to her. I am pulling for you, Natalee, and whatever kind of hell you may be in now, if you can make it home you will get through this. You have too many good and and wonderful people in your life. Mrs. Twitty, I admire you so much and I only wish I had ever at any point had anyone in my life that loved me as much as you love Natalee. Your love will bring her home.

    454. Mauricio Dolce on June 21st, 2005 12:41 am

      Laci Peterson went missing from Dec 24 to April 18 and nobody suggested to boycot California.

      Why the killer (s) of Natalee is been more agressively pursued than Scott Peterson was?

      Can somebody explain why Aruba, the Aruban Police and the Dutch should be held at a higher standard than the Modesto, CA Police?

      Could it be that we are unable to see our own faults/short comings and are quick to point fingers at foreigners and strangers?

      Its a crime than any other, you can spin it around as much as you want, its no diffrent.

    455. hammer on June 21st, 2005 1:13 am

      Since the van der slut boy liked to gamble, was he in heavy debt? that would give a motive for selling Natalee off.

      Was his family in financial trouble? Was the other two boys families in trouble?

      Food for thought.

    456. SteveDinMD on June 21st, 2005 1:19 am

      No one is holding the Aruban authorities to a higher standard. Peterson was under suspicion from the start. He was vigorously interrogated. His person, property, and vehicles were thorougly searched early on — more than once. He was subjected to physical and electronic surveillance. The police used informants (Fry, etc.) in the hope of eliciting damaging admissions. Ultimately, Peterson was indicted, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. As I see it, the authorities in Modesto did a pretty good job overall. This has NOT been the case in Aruba. The Aruban police didn’t even seriously question Joran and the Kalpoes until nearly two weeks are Natalee’s disappearance, and even then were negligent in securing physical evidence. Hell, they’re negligent to this day. Reports indicate that the police didn’t even impound/search the car belonging to the latest suspect taken into custody, Steve Croes. Reportedly, his ex needed the car to get to/from work, so they let her keep it. WTF? People in the US are beginning to wonder if such monumental stupidity can realistically exist in a single place. Perhaps it’s time for the “home office” to take direct control of the situtation. Let the Government of the Netherlands send an integrated investigative/prosecution team to Aruba to get to the bottom of things. This overlong farce is making them all look bad.

    457. PoPy on June 21st, 2005 1:23 am

      THANK YOU mauricio!! fINALLY!! THAT’S WHAT i’VE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE CLEAR!! everybody is trash-talking the aruban polis because the case is “taking TOO long” !!! 3 weeks??? It’s not like Laci peterson was found in a week!! So, before everybody starts pointing fingers look around in the US first!!

    458. PoPy on June 21st, 2005 1:27 am

      oh yeah, send the Us polis to come solve the case! they would do it in 24 hours, just like they did in the Elizabeth smart case! RIGHT???!!!!!! Oh, please!!!

    459. Alabama lady on June 21st, 2005 1:35 am

      I’m not saying boycotting Aruba is what anyone should do but ARUBA is a foreign country with known drug problems and these were imature kids. NOt adults who have learned to live in the world but kids who were still being looked after by PARENTS up until they let for this trip. And, more than likely would have continued to have been looked after for quite sometime until they were more mature in decision making. Just because you are 18 doesn’t make you a responsible adult. I am thinking back at myself at 18 and I was not capable of making good decisions and responsible ones.. and I might have easily been talked into a ride by a dashing young man myselft\.. just to the hotel.. not thinking that anything would ever happen. They were not told of the dangers of Carlos and Charlie’s and yes I have been there and have been approached by drug dealers. 7 times in one night. And that is a shady part of town. And, if they were home do you think their parents would have opened the door and said go out and drink all night and don’t check in? No, they would not. They would not think they would be safe. And, why would they think they would be safe in a known drug haven? And, I have chaperoned 18 year olds and I did have them check in with me and I did have a time for them to be in because I didn’t want to be up worrying about them all night. And, we had parents check on them through the night to make sure they were okay in their rooms. They may be 18 but they are still kids. And, anyone that says they are old enough to drink there and make their own decisions is an idiot. They still need guidance. And, someone from Mountain Brook who has gone on this trip told me that the reason they want to go on this trip and get the kind of chaperones they got was that they wanted to go down there and drink all night and never come in. Okay, this being the case the parents were stupid let them go. Having known someone with a child who died with alcohol poisoning on a class trip is enough to scare you not to drink all night.
      Those chaperones did not do their job. They should have known she was missing before they were at the airport. And, who was her roommate in the hotel? Why did she never know she was missing?
      And, to the girl on Fox.. friend of Natalee who wants to speak. Honey, no one believes you at all. Just trying to make sure no one blames the chaperones or you. There is a lot of blame and maybe this trip should not have been made. I don’t care if it were just to Florida. You still need some rules.

    460. One love on June 21st, 2005 1:44 am

      First of all, I would like to point out that the authorities are doing their utmost on this case, as far as letting the 3 guys go in the beginning was a strategic move because they didn’t had enough to keep them in custody, but they did tap their phones and something did came up, as far as the interogating goes, it’s hard to do your job when you have FBI intervene…….and doing things their way!!!!! In my opinion the 3 guys are holding something and it’s just a matter of time until they crack!!!

    461. alcatl on June 21st, 2005 1:46 am

      Both cases represent the demise of the world…neither victim or judicial system is superior to the other…I think just those of us spending our time writing are voicing our disgust/disbelief that people like Scott Peterson and the kids/or whomever down in Aruba vaule human life so little in 2005. We see it other worlds Iraq, Afgan, etc. but God forbid we have to see semmingly good people treat human life with such disregard. I think with Van der Sloot it is more a fear that he will be set free without atleast a complete expalination of what happened. From jump street, time doesn’t allow you to leave a bar at 1:30am and drive to a remote beach and return Natalee to the hotel at 2am. She was on the hotel sevalence camera and to let them remain free for 10 days in light of the holes in the story and and the fact that the judicial sysytems are so different makes American very angry.

    462. PoPy on June 21st, 2005 1:58 am

      Alabama Lady, I’m with you on that! how come the chaperone’s went to the airport without her. I know that they weren’t suposed to check on them 24/7, but at least do a count before going to the airport!!! It’s really fishy how that went, leaving all her stuff at the hotel, etc. It leaves me to think that they know something!! Just my opinion, but it’s to weird!! And maybe it was known that the chaperone’s were there for travelling purposes, but if you know that they chose to go to Aruba so they can drink, wouldn’t you think that they would have gone wild, and act stupidly!??? I mean they are still young and I guess they all went crazy with the chances that they got to drink in Aruba!! But this could have been controlled and stopped if the parents, chaperone’s etc. used their common sense and thought it better through!!!

    463. Mauricio Dolce on June 21st, 2005 2:04 am


      Scott Peterson was not arrested until the body of Laci was found on April 18 while she went missing Dec 24, at that time no body knew the full details of the investigation.

      12 FBI agenst and Dutch investigators flown from Holland has been assisting the Aruba Police, the fact that privacy and Police investigations are more protected by the Europeans should not allow us to pre judge the final result.

      The criminal law is everywhere the same, without a body, you almost have no case.

      Whey we just don’t accept that its just probably a date rape/overdose/orgasem stranglation/accidental death while resisting sex.

      The kids are not stupid and probably had been advised to keep thier mouth shut and miss lead the investigators, without a body, No convection.

      If the Modesto Police and the FBI, couldn’t get a confession from Scott while not been accused of incomptence and corruptions, why the Aruban Ploice could not be treated the same way?

      Why are we accepting to be manipulated by the trashy media so they can have ratings and SELL, we are discovering every day new evidence that we were manipulated about WMD, this led to 1700 dead, 15 000 amputated and we still have a minimum of three years to go.

      Wolfoitz told the Congess that the war will cost no more than 30 B, we are at 300 B so far.

      Jenniver Wilbank signed a deal for a book and movie, and the Swindlers (Schindlers) keep us going.

      I can keep going on and on but I guess I made my point.


    464. PoPy on June 21st, 2005 2:04 am

      Yeah, I realize that Americans are getting Angry with the judicial system! But it’s something that they have to learn to accept and live with it! it’s not going to change because of this case!!! don’t get angry just because things are not going the way you think they should go! it’s respecting another countries law. And Americans have to learn to do that!

    465. PoPy on June 21st, 2005 2:11 am

      CHEERS to you Mauricio!! I’m with you on that too!! No body, no case! Just because we don’t hear what’s going on inside the investigation doesn’t mean that they are not doing their job! the media has to back off, and let the polis do there job!! And people have to stop pointing fingers at the polis! They are doing their utmost, and hopefully will solve this case! just see that they will solve it in lesser time, than the modesto polis solved the laci peterson case!!

    466. One love on June 21st, 2005 2:23 am

      I just think that there’s very little evidence to build a strong case,…if indeed there is any evidence found,. i don’t think it’s time yet to go public with them…….it could ruin the case!! People have just got to stop believing everything the media says,…. take a second before you jump to any conclusion or start judging the Aruban authorities.!!!

    467. Mauricio Dolce on June 21st, 2005 2:29 am

      I am an Americain and have no particular interest in defending Aruba and the Dutch or blaming the irresponsible adults.

      The Aruban Police may very well been influenced, the rich, famouse and politically connected get a prefential treatements EVERY WHERE.

      I can list you FACTS with proofs about Police cover ups for very famous people in the past 5 years without major consequences to the perpetrators.

      We are the most hated nation in the planet beceause of our ignorance and arrogance.

      Please think before letting the passion takes over the reason.

    468. Sol Rosenberg on June 21st, 2005 9:03 am

      Natalee’s family is taking legal action against Aruban authorities. They are hiring their own search agency to force the Aruban authoritie to GET OFF THEIR ASS and move this thing along. They are also seeking full disclosure of evidence against the (3 +1) boys.


    469. Sol Rosenberg on June 21st, 2005 9:59 am

      So, I think it’s safe to say that there is reasonable evidence to suggest that Sloot Jr. knows what happened the night of May 30. There is also increasing speculation that Sloot Sr. also has information relating to the incident.

      Instead of all this continued speculation, what harm would it create to admisister a lie detector test to these (2)? If Sloot Jr. really had no involvement in this potential crime as he claims, why would he even oppose such a test?

      Does anyone know if the Aruban gov’t has such a test at their disposal? Used it in the past? Any reason not to use it? I know the results are not guaranteed, but it’s an an additional metric that should be employed if it could help solve this case.

    470. Mikey on June 21st, 2005 11:22 am

      hi everyone – is there any new news today

    471. Mauricio Dolce on June 21st, 2005 1:38 pm

      Lie detector test exist only in the US, its not recogized by court in the US and you can cheat it easily.

      Do a search in Google about it, its a children game if you know how.

    472. Mikey on June 21st, 2005 2:32 pm

      i guess there’s no new news today

    473. Mikey on June 21st, 2005 2:34 pm

      does this “dash” gal still participate on this board?

    474. Rick Pavic on June 21st, 2005 2:43 pm

      I have been anxiously awaiting the final outcome of this story and unfortunately, it will probably not have a happy ending. The real shame is that fingers are being pointed all over the place, but in the end, a family is without their child, after having trusted chaperones, friends and the Aruban government with the safety of their child. We are quick to point fingers but the truth of the matter is, no one is to blame. It is a sad series of events that doomed her from the very beginning, and unfortunately, some poor choices that we get to look at in hindsight caused her to walk the wrong path. Come on people, we all make bad choices everyday from the bad choice of cologne to bad lunch choices. To leave with these guys says she apparently trusted them. If she WAS drugged, how does the bartender or bartenders figure in all of this. I think that we need to look at this from a compassionate standpoint because I have always been a firm believer that “what goes around, comes around.” The boys will make a mistake and I assure you that they will get what’s coming to them ultimately.

    475. Sol Rosenberg on June 21st, 2005 2:58 pm

      Hey PoPy,

      Do you live on the island?

    476. Sol Rosenberg on June 21st, 2005 5:11 pm

      Good news on a related front – the little boy that’s been missing the past (4) days in Utah has been found. There’s nothing better than a happy ending. Wouldn’t it be great if the same were true for Natalie. Let’s pray that’s the case…

    477. PoPy on June 21st, 2005 5:54 pm

      Sol, yes I do live on the island!! Why???

    478. molly on June 22nd, 2005 12:58 am

      I have been reading this blog for a couple of days. Glad to read some kindred thoughts on the subject of Natalee Holloway. I keep having the feeling that Natalee isn’t on Aruba at all. I feel like she was sold to someone. Perhaps Equusearch will find out differently. We’ll see.

    479. molly on June 22nd, 2005 1:01 am says:

      Prosecutors did not say what role they suspect Croes of playing in Holloway’s disappearance, reports CBS News Correspondent Kelly Cobiella. His distraught ex-wife, who was outside the courthouse, left without a word. But Croes is not being held for murder and kidnapping as the other three suspects are.

    480. molly on June 22nd, 2005 1:04 am

      Beth Holloway met van der sloot’s parents!! see

      Meanwhile, Holloway’s mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told an Aruba television station that she had met by chance with the parents of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, one of four suspects in custody.

      Twitty said she met Van Der Sloot’s mother, Anita, while handing out prayer cards and fliers on behalf of her daughter in the parents’ neighborhood, and she was invited into the family’s home.

      “It was just a situation that presented itself when I was in his neighborhood and at his home, and I just acted upon it and, yes, we did have a conversation, and that’s all I want to disclose about it at this time,” Twitty said.

    481. royrab on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 am

      Suppose those suspects confessed that they sold her or raped and killed her. Do you expect the police to immediately make this puiblic without prejudicing the investigation/proofs and her life especially on the trafficking senario.

    482. Sol Rosenberg on June 22nd, 2005 8:42 am

      PoPy –

      Everyone has an opinion on this site – sepecially Sol. I think Sloot Jr. is guilty, along with his friends. My question to you – if Jr. told Sr. what happened, is Sr. obligated to come clean – knowing the law, would he assist the son to save him from life in prision? Make the assumption that Jr. did the deed. What would you do if you were Sr and the assumption was true? I won’t criticize your answer.

      - Sol

    483. Amy Dear on June 22nd, 2005 9:41 am

      Speaking as an ex-slut at the age of 18, I can tell you that, as a hot blond, like natalie, I was quite the partier and that included bumping and grinding with guys that I deemed “fun” on the dance floor.

      Jordan Van Det Sloot and her probably had some kind of ‘rendezvous’ that night…
      I say that because Jordan is a good looking kid and natalie prob saw him as ‘her type’..

      The other two immigrant looking kids, are geeks, losers, and probably got jealous that she most likely ‘led them on’ and went to rendezvous with jordan.

      I say this because i’m doing my own profiling of natalie’s personality.

      She was an A student (like i was), mommy and daddy don’t know the ‘other side’ of their children. Children will try hard to keep that from their parents because they still love their parents they just want the same treatment from them while they ‘grow’ and ‘explore’ ….

      Yes the other two immigrant looking guys i believe had something to do with her disappearance, those two are obnoxious kids, and a beautiful bombshell like that walking into their presence and flirting ect with them then going out with jordan, prob got one or both of them pissed…

      The feeling of rejection if you are an obnoxious individual can be quite harsh…
      Obviously because they victims of low self esteem in the love department because they both look like toadies…

      That is my hunch…

      And at that age, the reasons aren’t that complicated… kids react with emotion… it’s just the stage in life that they are at.

      and usually the simplest answer is the right answer.

      you don’t have to think i’m right, just throwing it out there.

    484. Sol Rosenberg on June 22nd, 2005 10:48 am

      Amy Dear –

      Good post. I have trouble with the sex-or-drug-trafficking theory. I agree with you in the sense that many kids that age are concerned with partying, getting laid, etc.

      The only appealing part of the trafficking theory is that Natalee would most likely still be alive.

    485. PoPy on June 22nd, 2005 8:43 pm

      Amy Dear, I am totally with you on that!! everybody seems to think that because of being a A-student, Honor student, etc. She couldn’t have done anything wrong! She wouldn’t drink so much alcohol, she wouldn’t sleep with a guy she just met. And you just let us know that it can happen!! Just because everybody sees the A-student, doesn’t mean she doesn’t have a dark side!! Hopefully she has a dark side, and maybe just ran of willingly! Than she has a better chance of being alive!!

    486. PoPy on June 22nd, 2005 8:50 pm

      By the way, My opinion, THey should investigate Natalee’s friends, all the people that were in Aruba with her!!! I still can’t understand how they could have left the hotel, leaving al her lugage and passport behind!! How could they get on the plane leaving her behind!! It’s Just not normal!! I went on a class trip to Florida a couple of months ago, and I can’t imagine leaving the US, without one of my friends behind!!! I think they should interogate all her friends to to find out, why they did that!! How come they left all her belongings at the hotel!!! To me it seems like they knew that she was not going with them!! ……Just my opinion! What do you guys think????

    487. birminghamALNative2005 on June 23rd, 2005 12:02 am

      I didnt think they just left her behind. I thought that I had had heard that when it came time to go to the airport, Natalee was nowhere to be found.

      But what about her roomates, wouldnt they have reportedher missing beFORE it came time to leave, esp sinceshe had been out ALL NIGHT LONGZ with the locals!!
      You would think they might get a littleworried, since she was drinking the last time they all saw her.

      Its a sad story, and Ihave a feelingshe was sold off into prostitution or slavery, possibly being held captive in a dungeon or something, drugged up…..She could still quitr possible be in Aruba, but Joran (according to the news tonight) said that after the brothers dropped him and Natalee off at the beach, they (Joran and Natalee) hung out for a while and she fell asleep and he left her there. Is is possible that some drug cartell or someone picked her up, ini her drunkedness sleepy state, took her on theboat, left and sold her!!
      Just athought!

    488. Sol Rosenberg on June 23rd, 2005 9:36 am

      I agree – there’s something fishy about her friends not letting anyone know that she was missing – before they left the Hotel. I think all of her friends should be interrogated as thoroughly as the (4) suspects. Maybe Natalee confided to one of them that she intended on spending the night with Joran, or something of that nature.

      Even if her friends knew this….and if they decided not to tell the chaperones…why didn’t they take her bags to the airport in hopes of metting with her there. Or did she not get along with the girls in her room and they simply didn’t care if she missed the flight or not?


    489. Harry on June 24th, 2005 5:49 pm

      I got it, Paul Van Der Sloot is the head of this mess. He uses his son and friends to find young drunk american girls, drugs them and brings them to “Daddy”. “Daddy” has a little bit of sex problem and craves the young girls.

      Unfortunately in this case, the girl must have died accidently and the crew summoned Croes to drop the body offshore using his boat.

      That’s why all the kids & Daddio are trying to cover up the mess.

    490. Harry on June 24th, 2005 5:55 pm

      great points Sol ! yeah it is a bit fishy !!
      this is a freakin circus…

    491. Harry on June 24th, 2005 6:49 pm

      sounds like the latest news is pointing to a “rape gang” consisting of van der sloot and his buddies..aka the PIMPS.

      apparently van der sloot got into a pushing fight with alabama teen Bryan Reynolds, which may have been motive to get revenge by van der sloot.

      there is information saying that van der sloot had a website that promoted gang culture, violence, and rape.

      also numerous reports of van der sloot having a anger problem, and was a “bully”

      this all smells pretty bad….

    492. birminghamALNative2005 on June 24th, 2005 9:54 pm

      i tried to post a couple of times but for some reason its not showing my posts….hmm there wasnt anything bad in it.
      Joran van der sloots mom said that when she spoke with him, he told his mom that yes he was alone with natalee on the beach and that when it was time to leave she had said she wanted to stay so he left her there, He told his mom “I didnt do anything to her, I dont know what happened to her”
      its sad, if he is telling the truth, then she is probally kidnapped being held in a dungeon somewhere, drugged out of her mind being used as a prostitute or something worse!! ITs sad!
      Van der sloots dad got arrestedQ!

    493. Ellen on June 26th, 2005 12:09 pm

      The 4 in the car–Joran, Natalie, or th Kalpoe brothers–all look a little wild from where I sit. We’ve heard Lots about Joran because everyone wants to find the perpetrator, and he was the one on the spot. But, teenagers are complicated and unpredictable. Just add some alcohol to a group of teen-agers on vacation and look out!

      Clearly, there was no premeditation. Natalie pursued Joran–based on remarks by Natalie’s friends (she introduced herself to him…. she stayed behind after we left the club….) , by bystanders (she kept asking him to dance), etc

      I suspect that Natalie is like her mother–headstrong and dramatic. Think about that black, strapless dress with the jagged hemline of Natalie’s. It’s not that she’s “fast”, at all, but she is no quiet intellectual, that’s obvious. And she is no saint–recall that her church minister hardly knew her.

      She’s just a normal teen-ager girl, with probably a desire for glamor and excitement, but she went too far. “Something went wrong.”

      We should stop trying to scapegoat that Joran, his father, and the others. It won’t bring Natalie back. It’s wrong.

      What went wrong? We may never know. But mixing teen-agers & alcohol can be disastrous.

    494. 22mastiffs on July 1st, 2005 10:35 pm

      Maybe, just maybe he couldn’t perform like a ‘man”…..when it came time to do the “nasty-nasty”….he couldn’t. He was embarrassed, she laughed at him, told him she would tell all of her firends, they could e-mail the info., to his friends when they arrived back home….he got angry, struck her a little too hard…..and then his buddies helped him get rid of her….
      I wish someone could have gotten a good look at his body; bruising, scratches, or maybe she gave him a really good “nip”.

    495. Luna on August 13th, 2005 1:52 pm

      Amy Dear:
      Ugly people like immigrants must be the bad guys? And ugly in whose opinion? Joran is an immigrant too: but it’s OK, because he is white and therefore cute?

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