Natalee Holloway; June 13 2005

 

Dutch newswire this morning (CET) reports that the dutch government sent two ‘experts’ to Aruba. The JD refused to elaborate on the field of expertise. Police chief Jan van der Straten: ”I cannot tell you more, because then it is obvious in which way the investigation is going”. According to Van der Straaten they will do very detailed work and didn’t bring search and rescue dogs.

Thanks, Pays Bas and for the summary.

Experts help with investigation on Aruba

ANP

Oranjestad – Two Dutch experts its Sunday on Aruba arrived the local investigation team to help in the affair around the disappeared Natalee Holloway.

UPDATE: Geraldo just on Fox live saying that he got off the phone with the Justic Minister (Rudy Croes) and that Croes said there would a “resolution to the case momentarily.” Hat tip commentor DBTV

Today from the Birmingham News, “Natalee’s Mom remains faithful, but ready for the worst”.

The mother of Natalee Holloway, the Mountain Brook teen who has been missing here for two weeks, said Sunday that her trust in God allows her to be prepared for the worst.

Beth Twitty joined crowds of worshippers here who prayed for a resolution to her daughter’s case.

The Aruban prime minister asked churches across the island to dedicate their weekend services to Holloway.

Flanked by a handful of close friends, Twitty visited the historic Alto Vista chapel perched on a hill above a deserted seascape. Inside the tiny church, she lit a candle for her daughter, then knelt to pray.

“I have complete trust and faith in God, that he is taking care of Natalee,” she said. “I believe that he will deliver Natalee to me, and I believe there will be a resolution to this.”

Posted June 13, 2005 by
Natalee Holloway | 367 comments


If you liked this post, you may also like these:

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  • Scared Monkeys.net Forum June-July 2005 Comments Have been Restored
  • One year ago today, June 17, 2005. What occured in the Natalee Holloway case
  • Natalee Holloway; Afternoon Update
  • Natalee Holloway Updates; July 22, 2005




  • Comments

    367 Responses to “Natalee Holloway; June 13 2005”

    1. Jim on June 13th, 2005 4:47 am

      Interesting news. I hope these experts are not incompetent like the Aruba Police.

    2. willo on June 13th, 2005 4:55 am

      So, based on Dutch statement, it sounds as though the investigation is proceeding in a certain direction (but they just don’t want to reveal what that direction is.

    3. Pays Bas on June 13th, 2005 5:06 am

      I talked to and ‘expert’ on these experts this morning. Because I also like to find out what’s going on over there. His guess is that these two are specialists in interrogation. My ‘friend’ follows this case quite closely and he suspects that Joran and his buddies are not talking, so reà ¯nforcements are called in. Why does he suspect that? According to my expert two men are to small a team for a CSI-like investigation, and the dutch policeforce has one of the best in the world, and the dogoption is ruled out by Van der Straten.

    4. willo on June 13th, 2005 5:24 am

      I think you’re correct–something to do with the interrogation….maybe someone with profiling background who can figure out how to get these guys talking. Then figure out if what they’re saying is tur or not.

    5. willo on June 13th, 2005 5:25 am

      Sorry….I meant ….figure out if what they’re saying is true or not.

    6. Michael on June 13th, 2005 5:39 am

      god this is like the last outpost of message boards on the subject I could find
      all the others are closed because of ‘spamming’ took me 2 days to find one still open.
      I’ve been watching this story unfold in the news.. heartbreaking..
      I’ve been trying to figure out a logical course of events based on current knowledge
      last seen at carlos & charlies with
      Surinamese brothers, Satish Kalpoe, 18, Deepak, 21
      and dutch teen 17 seen earlier on vid tapes with her in casino
      said they told police they took Holloway to Arashi Beach
      then
      They also told police that they dropped Holloway at her Holiday Inn at about 2 a.m
      they last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off
      Holiday Inn employees say security cameras did not record Holloway’s return
      Holiday Inn guard who worked the overnight shift that day said he did not see her
      (not alot of activity at this hour he would have remembered)
      2 security gaurds at neighboring hotel..?(off duty?)(which is closed for renovention)
      Abraham Jones, 28 Antonius “Mickey” John, 30

      I’ve read there has been an exhaustive search effort on the island
      Is this an outdoor search only..?
      has anyone checked the nearby hotel? the one that’s closed for renovation
      I doubt she ‘left’ the island if she did it would have had to have been by boat
      doubt it highly she wouldn’t have left her belongings

      they went to the beach.. has anyone checked the caves i found this
      http://www.aruba.com/pages/caves.htm I don’t think it would be a place people would search
      the only other thing I can think is she was kidnapped and is being held somewhere in aruba
      she trusted the dutch teen if she got in a car with him at 2am

      I don’t think that both partys are responsible
      although I really don’t know which one; the 3 kids or the 2 gaurds know exactly what happened
      I get the feeling the dutch teen is innocent
      we don’t know for sure that they went to the beach
      thats their story
      seems like the brothers know more than they’re telling

    7. mojo on June 13th, 2005 5:43 am

      and language – being a native speaker could also make a difference. Joran’s family is educated in Holland, the rest of his family most probably lives in Holland….on a subtle level this could make a difference. There may also be a feeling of superiority/condesencion towards the local Arubans that he’ll be unable to get away with.. good surmise Pays Bas.

      what’s dogoption?

    8. Michael on June 13th, 2005 6:10 am

      after reading this I do believe the one security gaurd is innocnet as well
      http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8079019/
      Abraham Jones, 28

    9. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 6:49 am

      morning! any new news? i ws trying to follow this weekend from a wedding but as usual the news was a rollercoaster…

    10. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 6:53 am

      Boycott Aruba! These guys are either completely incompetent or completely corrupt or both! Does this sound like a place we want to spend our money? Plus all the drugs running through the place makes it even more of a waste. The Prime Minister sounded like he could barely even formulate one logical thought. A word of advice to all would be travellers, save some money and go to the Florida keys or some other place in south Florida. At least if something happens there, U.S. authorities will have jurisdiction. And your money will help out other Americans rather than supporting a corrupt island government. These guys haven’t done squat for Natalee or her family. You can see the frustration in her parents. Boycott Aruba!!!!! and France too!!!

    11. Bill on June 13th, 2005 6:55 am

      ”I cannot tell you more, because then it is obvious in which way the investigation is going”.

      I take this as a very positive sign. The investigation is going in a direction now!

    12. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 6:58 am

      you know- i ahve been going to aruba for over 20 years, and have been defending them during this as much as i could HOPING that there was a purpose to all of this police/ crap buffoonary (not a word) anyway NOTHING… it is very difficult to not think that things are being swept under the c arpet… if they had tried to handle this properly from the beginnign instead of playing the victem i may disagree with you…but i cant
      I was married there a few months ago and this has completely erased ALL o fhe warm fuzzys for me… “one happy island……” yeah so long as you go there and spend your money and get the hell out… oh brother!

    13. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 7:00 am

      That’s right Marie, all they want is your money. To them you are just another greedy American tourist. Boycott Aruba!

    14. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:02 am

      it is ridiculous that it has gone on this long… whatever way it turns out people wont believe it… i am betting on a ‘fall guy” for he little dutch punk… the arubans have some work to do — theyneed to gain back trust and competence before their tourism shrivels up and dies…even if we hear somethingwe dont like we need answers- barny fife 3 ring circus is insulting to all of us ESPECIALLY poor family and friends!

    15. mojo on June 13th, 2005 7:03 am

      unless, they are keeping all information guarded so as not to help those in custody. i would also like to believe that there is a direction.

    16. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:08 am

      i know- it ais obvious that is what some of the younger locals think- i have had the convo. many times before… We bust out butts 60 hours a week to go relax for as week where it is beautiful adn the locals are happy and peacefull, we dont live tlike that every day…. last visit a smile would be followed by a snarl, NOT the aruba that i remember… i think the place got too big for their britches… and had to import people for the manual labor jobs that the arubans didnt want to do… there came slowly the crime and change of atmosphere, ect… people have felt a false security there for a long time, which is why this all happened,,, they have swept things under the carpet – not to tarnish the name….ugh i cant even continue this rampage, im justy sooo sorry for the family, this could ahve been any of us

    17. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:23 am

      everyone must be gone

    18. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 7:27 am

      the surinamese brothers are afraid of Joran, so they won’t talk much. my 2 cents.

    19. Pays Bas on June 13th, 2005 7:36 am

      No, not gone. Silent. We are all trying to get some news about this case, from Aruba, the US and The Netherlands. And Aruba-bashing in the name of justice is not my game. With that in mind, the Royal Netherlands Navy was asked to stay extra alert from saturday until tomorrow by the government of Aruba. Maybe nothing important, but that little detail has (in my mind) not been reported by the media in the US.

    20. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 7:50 am

      emotioneel !! niet realistisch !! chauvenistisch !! U.S. Amerikanen !!

      Het ziet er naar uit dat ondanks schuld is bewezen de amerikanen hun oordeel al klaar hebben. Ze zijn er helemaal van overtuigd dat er een Cover-Up aan de gang is om het zoontje van de rechter buiten schot te houden, dat is totale onzin natuurlijk. Het feit is dat het onderzoek niet verloopt zoals ze dat graag gezien zouden hebben. En nu moet Aruba geboycot worden !! Hou alsjeblieft op met die onzin zeg, de Amerikanen komen daar uit vrije wil en zolang het daar goed gaat is het allemaal oke maar op het moment dat het niet gaat zoals zij het willen moet er direct geboycot worden, wat een volk zeg!!
      Let wel dat wanneer er een dader gevonden word en onder het nederlandse recht veroordeeld word, de amerikanen opnieuwmet hun grote bekken vooraan staan om te klagen!! Het mag duidelijk zijn dat wat er gebeurd is verschrikkelijk is en onder geen enkele voorwaarde goed te praten is, maar iemand is pas schuldig totdat schuld bewezen is.

    21. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 7:51 am

      If this had happened in the US, those 3 “boys” would have immediately been picked up for “questioning”/interrogation. We wouldn’t have waited 10 days to finally say, “OH! Oh! THEY were the last ones to see her! OH! NOW we get it.” Sorry – that’s just a little bit tooo BS for me.

      I’m with NH’s mom – either give us some results and give it TODAY or there’s gonna be hell to pay in the Worldwide Media.

    22. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:51 am

      I understand where you are coming from Pays- but cant you please understand the frustration of this all hav=ppening NOW after this many days- why werent these things done a week or more ago? i would be “bashing” anyone guilty of this much negligence!
      As i said in earlier posts, i have good freinds that are locals there- i just got married there for goodness sakes, but it is a fact that the island is an amazing place and for the most part arubans are GREAT people… through the years it has HAS become not as happy of an island, and that is not bashing, feeling a fasle sense of security in a place that isnt as safe as it used to be is what we are talking about here…
      my sisters went into C&C’s – got served they are 14…it wasnt the arubans that were sleezo to them eithre it was the venezualans, following them everywhere … that isnt safe and police SHOUL ahve been doing some prevantative maintenence a LONG time ago- no need to be babystitters nbut sticking around a wild place at last call is just a START of what shoul be done!

    23. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 7:52 am

      Can someone translate Dutch Dad?

    24. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:53 am

      Nice try dutch dad- but you would be as upset as us here if the roles were reversed- you know it there is no justice here no ATTEMPT on making this whole botched thing right, im sorry if you disagree with my opinion but i ahve aruban friends that wholly agree with me on the island and the attitude…. so open your mind a little but mister- please!

    25. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 7:54 am

      Speak in English Dutch Dad! I am an ignorant American and don’t make the dutch talky, talky very well. If you want to bash Americans or defend Aruba on an American message board, at least do it in English. If you are being nice and want to boycott Aruba, I apologize. Otherwise, watch it or we will boycott you guys too!

    26. Teo on June 13th, 2005 7:54 am

      Lisnting to TOP FM in papiamento now, this morning, via http://www.arubadag.com it seems that the 2 surnam brothers are setting up Joran van der Sloot. According to the news I hear is that they dropped Joran van der Sloot at home and then they drove off whith Natalee Holloway, supposdly to bring her to her hotel..but she never got there..

      This is J. van der Sloot his version, according to certain sources on TOP FM 95

    27. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:56 am

      i think he was basically calling me a hotheaded american-
      we are not being hotheaded but i AGREE with deep in that if an aruban girl was missing in america, those three boys would ahve been detained and questined and help until there were answers. I think that americans have more respect for foreigners than they have for us, how sad!

    28. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 7:57 am

      arubadag.com has taken down Natalee’s picture…

    29. SoInSo on June 13th, 2005 7:58 am

      !! Latest rumor on the island, being put forth by local radio? Or .. news?

    30. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:58 am

      that poor girl never had a chance…
      how do we even defend this craziness- just a bunch of spoiled SICKOS! im selling my time share and never going back- it will never be the same place to me again

    31. Rob on June 13th, 2005 7:58 am

      teo. hmmm, i do nt think so… they drive away with his brother s car?

    32. Teo on June 13th, 2005 7:59 am

      The source seems to be the Lawyer Chris Lejeuz from the detained Mr. Jones.

      According to Chris Lejeuz both van der Sloot and Jones are locked up in the same police station and Jones said he could hear Sloot crying and saying that he(van der Sloot) is being set up by his 2 surnam friends.

      Interessting, Chris Lejeuz is furious and is going to start a legal procedure to get his client Jones free as quick as possible.

    33. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 7:59 am

      why are they taking down the picture?

    34. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:00 am

      … out of sight… out of mind

    35. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 8:01 am

      i feel bad for those security guards- they will be owed a huge appology when this is over- doubt they will ever getr it though…

    36. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:01 am

      i have to admit im totally confused… maybe that s that whole idea….

    37. Teo on June 13th, 2005 8:02 am

      Rob, they dropped J. van der Sloot first, and appearantly they never went to the lighthouse according to van der Sloot.

      The picture of Natalee is not realy gone, just read “For our American visitors”and click on the word”CLICK HERE” at the right side

    38. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 8:02 am

      Alright, Dutch Dad, for calling us hot headed and bashing us, you are now on my boycott list. To sum it up, I am encouraging everyone to boycott the Arubans, Dutch and the French. Why the French you may ask? Well they are ungrateful wimps and I just don’t like them. I am a hater of all people that don’t like Americans.

    39. 33 on June 13th, 2005 8:03 am

      Marie from maine- I agree w/ you- Stop going to these wonderful paradise getaways, and see how much these 3rd world people really truly hate Americans. Hate us, love our money and aid. Next thing you’ll see is prices the dropping on vacations, flights, lodging etc. to jump start there tourism industry. It will be kinda nice to see someone elses economy suffer from poor decision making. Again I agree – Lets boycott

    40. SoInSo on June 13th, 2005 8:03 am

      That would explain why we’ve been waiting. Nobody’s cracked, they’re blaming each other (2 boys vs J).

    41. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 8:07 am

      i am glad that someone agrees w/ me 33 i mean i have been going since i was a little girl i JUST got married there- i never want to go again… riduculous how fast they turn on us—- happy island , until there is a little conflict
      i still think the vander punk is the guilty one… absolutely!

    42. Teo on June 13th, 2005 8:08 am

      The picture is not gone… In a way dutchdad is right..you are quick to judge..

      Take a closer look and try out the links, the picture and the information was placed to help you guys to understand what to do so you can have acces also to arubian media.

      We feel sorry for Natalee and we hope that Justice will be done, in the meanwhile we do not know yet who did what and wat happend to Natalee.

      So all we have here on this forum is wild guesses, rumors and accusations.

      Lets wait till we can say FOR SURE what has happened.

      In the meanwhile we can exchange informations and express our feelings on this forum.

      The Arubadag Website has other obligations also, but we are keeping a close eye on this case as far as our circumstances permit us.

      Thank you for your time reading this,
      Teo

    43. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:10 am

      i will not stop going, im going on the 25th.. teo…why would v/d sloot leave her with them ,i thouught his whole intention was to be with her… that s what i thought.. that just does nt make sense, even if that were the case .. why did v/d sloot wait this long to tell thos story?

    44. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:11 am

      “The picture is not gone… In a way dutchdad is right..you are quick to judge..”

      Not judging – just stating a fact. NH’s photo has been removed from the front of the site – THAT, my dear Teo, is a FACT. You can bury it 3 layers deep or put 50 links to it but the fact remains that it is NOT on the front of the site any more.

    45. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 8:12 am

      theo- “quick to judge is ridiculous” i have been thinking for TWO WEEKS of any way i have been defending you- till i was blue in the face, quick to judge dioesnt entail waiting over two weeks for justice. this is a dog and pony show at the expense of this poor girl, hopefully many lessons were learned regardless of the outcome!
      if you dislike us so much wait till all od us stop coming…see if your crime goes away then- i think not… we are all the same, you just wont admit it…

    46. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:12 am

      ANother simple FACT: The 3 left with her and were the last to see her. THEY know what happened and are still concealing it. That is a fact.

    47. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:17 am

      Aruban readers: Whose car was it? I read from Aruban sources that it belonged to the Surinamese, not Joran. Where is Joran’s house in realtion to the bar and the hotel. Would it make sense to drop him off first. Or maybe they dropped him after Arashi and before they took Natalee back.

    48. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:17 am

      they can blame each other all the want.. that still is nt solving this case…also. if they blame each other… you would think that by now they would have a body…

    49. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 8:17 am

      sorry for writing in dutch, it was an impulse !!
      So you’re only apologizing if i boycot Aruba and otherwise you’ll boycot ….. ?
      ( my way of looking at things different than you ? )

      I’m sorry but i have a different look towards Aruba and having no problems with it.
      I want to make clear that whatever is happend on Aruba is terrible and the one who is responsebel must be judged, but under Dutch law. And i stated in my dutch writing that whenever that happens the Americans WILL be the first to complain that the Dutch law stinks ( and it does, but it’s our law ).

      @marie
      I didn’t try to reverse anything, i’m scared that something like this will happen to my little girl in the future. And i hope that whoever did this to Natalee will be punnished.
      And don’t need to open up my mind because i know Aruba and i’m having some relatives living on the Island. I.m sorry but i have a different view.

    50. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 8:17 am

      Here is what as happened so far: An American girl went missing in Aruba, the Aruban authorities have found little or nothing, have fiddled around for almost three weeks, made things even look like a cover up and all the while saying I hope this doesn’t hurt tourism and our pocketbooks. So you tell me if I am too quick to judge. I wish the Aruban authorities would have been a little quicker to judge when they picked up the three amigos the first day and kept them in custody, rather than release them to cover up the crime scene. Even if they aren’t to blame, the authorities never closed that lead when they should have back then.

      So am I too quick to judge? Or am I right when I say I am sick of watching these greedy little countries like Aruba bash Americans with one hand and then hold out the other hand for our money and help. Boycott Aruba!!!! (also boycott the Dutch and French for good measure)

    51. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:18 am

      i read that it is valentijn s car jorans brother… maybe im wrong…

    52. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:19 am

      what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve….

      FACT: No car ever showed up at the Holiday Inn – confirmed by both security cameras and Guards.

    53. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:19 am

      i heard that joran lives near hooiberg.. that volcano looking thing….but agian im not 100 percent sure…

    54. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:22 am

      when you have two differnt ppl each pointing fingers at each other… it makes for a exteremly difficult investigation…

    55. Teo on June 13th, 2005 8:22 am

      deepthroat2 Says:

      June 13th, 2005 at 8:11 am
      “The picture is not gone… In a way dutchdad is right..you are quick to judge..”

      Not judging – just stating a fact. NH’s photo has been removed from the front of the site – THAT, my dear Teo, is a FACT. You can bury it 3 layers deep or put 50 links to it but the fact remains that it is NOT on the front of the site any more.

      The judging is because what you said just moments later:and I qoute:
      deepthroat2 Says:

      June 13th, 2005 at 8:00 am
      … out of sight… out of mind

      Unless you telle me now that you did not mean that I put her out of sight because it out of our mind, in that case I appolige, and the reason that it is 1 (not 50 or 3 layers) click away is beacuse Arubadag Website has other obligations also..even CNN doesn’t have it on their FRONTPAGE..and CNN IS AMERICAN..what that says about their feelings of their citizin??

      Marie from maine, my judging saying was purely only to the statement of deeptroath where she said out of sight out of mind.

      I respect your desicion if you want to boycot Aruba because of this case or maybe because your not happy whoith how Aruba handles this case. I do not agree, but I understand if you do not want to go any more. Or at least, I should say, I respect your decisions.

      But before we all make hasty conclusions and decisions, lets wait till we al know for sure WHAT has REALLY happened.

      And Rob, I do not know either what to think about this so called saying from van der Sloot, I am just trying to keep you guys informed and I am not in the position to draw any conclusions.

      I just hope that they will find out as quick as possible what has happened and who is the one we should lock if there is a crime commited.

      Sincerly, Teo

    56. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 8:22 am

      I guess, the pressure is on the 3, all of them are saying half-truths.

    57. kip on June 13th, 2005 8:23 am

      Good Morning you all,
      Great board wonderful and thoughful folks and very interesting comments.
      Here is some information that you can relie on as truth! What is heard in the LEO circles on need to know bases is this: 1. The blood found in the vehicle was in the trunk of the vehicle not the back seat.It was of heavy volume.The blood in the back seat was minute trace blood,like a small droplet.DNA samples take up to a week or better for a match depending on
      what test are ordered.The FBI most likely had the samples sent to Quantico,Va.to be tested.2. The vehicle did not go to the light house and return to the “Holiday Inn” as reported.The 3 subjects rode around the island of Aruba and then supposedly returned to the “Holiday Inn”.However this is still a ongoing theory givin by the 3 subjects.Mileage in the car suggested different than what would have been had the subjects just gone to the lighthouse.4.The uniform the guards that where at the “Holiday Inn” was the type worn by guards inviolved in concerts and outdoor type of affairs,not the typical uniforms worn by hotel and casino guards.They where black and had white flurescent lettering across the back.This is part of a profile some local LEO officers in Florida are putting together from real excellent scources in Aruba.The two Dutch officers that came to Aruba this AM are polygraph operators.The aruba police department are of honesty and integrity.Not corrupted nor political.However they are restricted somewhat,but not ashamed to as for outside help.Ms.Holloways family asked help from a state senator.The senator sent the FBI agents to Aruba.Aruba and the USA are close working
      in many types of investigations beside this particular ongoing investigation.

    58. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:24 am

      teo i appreciate your help… but i m just giving a counter response not a condemnation…

    59. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:24 am

      v/d sloot would have cracked by now if he were guilty.. so i a little perplexed….

    60. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:27 am

      kip, this is the first im hearing about a large quanity of blood… holy crap.

    61. Teo on June 13th, 2005 8:28 am

      Ok Rob, I was being led a little bit by my emotions due to some misunderstanding by certain posters on this forum. I need to go later so I will not have time to keep posting, till late lets say after 07:00 PM arubian time

      Sincerly, Teo

    62. pearl7393016 on June 13th, 2005 8:29 am

      I’m furious that this happened and even more furious that on a tiny island like Aruba, they can’t find this poor girl. I agree with the other poster who says we should boycott Aruba. I’ve been there 5 times; and just came back from my honeymoon. I think the Aruban people need to find out what happens to their country when 600,000 Americans stop pouring money into it every year. BOYCOTT ARUBA!

    63. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:30 am

      teo i love aruba and it s people you will not hear negative comments from me regarding the great ppl of aruba…

    64. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:31 am

      pearl try fallujah, it sounds more like your type of place

    65. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:34 am

      Teo,

      The judging is because what you said just moments later:and I qoute:
      deepthroat2 Says:

      June 13th, 2005 at 8:00 am
      … out of sight… out of mind

      That’s just an old saying that has the ring of truth to it – not a condemnation. Your PM says that finding NH is the nation’s #1 priority, not me or anyone else. If it is the “#1 Priority” of Aruba, it just seems to me that Arubadag.com would hold the same view.

    66. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 8:35 am

      If Joran said that his friends dropped Natalee off, I don’t think he would let the brothers drive off with his hooked up Honda rice civic. obviously, he cares more about his car, than the girl.
      ** he would’ve walked her to the entrance of HI if he cared.

      After all, all he wanted was a physical relationship according to his MSN, tickle profile etc.. I doubt the surinamese bro’s dropped her alone, all 3 where in it.

    67. Teo on June 13th, 2005 8:35 am

      Pearl, it is easy to say boycot aruba, you say that you have been there 5 times, did you interact with locals? Or where you mainly on the beach and had none or little neccesary contacts with locals? If it is the second opinion, I can see why you are quick to plead for boycot, but if you did have intereactions with locals, maybe even befriended some..how can you say this so bluntly?

      It is very hard for me to imagine that someone who had a real contact with locals and thus knowing what kind of friendly people the arubians are, and then still saying now boycot aruba and so hurting the main population of Aruba including local friend, while the fault is by just 1 or maybe 3 persons…

      If that is the case, do you boycott Mac Donaslds in the states, because people have been robbed or killed, do yiou boycot gasoline stations because people were shut by a crazy sniper a couple of years ago, do you boycot Disneyland because children were abducted in the past (or at least the possibility is there)

      Is it not better than to just lock your self up in your house and boycot the whole world outside your home?

      These absurd reasonings I cannot follow.

      Bye bye and maybe till later

      Teo

    68. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:36 am

      ARUBA POSTERS: What are the chances of finding Natalee if they threw her to the sharks? Where would the currents take her remains?

    69. caro on June 13th, 2005 8:39 am

      People from the US,

      please stop bashing other countries and judicial systems just because they are different from yours! I’m from Belgium but I love the US, I have a lot of family over there and visit regulary. Having said that, I study Law here but I’ve had a course on the different law systems, including US law. Continantal law (including Dutch law) is very different from US or Commonlaw.

      The inquisition is supposed to be secret, normally they don’t even communicate the names of the suspects held because the judges have an obligation of following every possible lead, even the one that may prove a suspect is innocent and yes it is taking a long time but the investigators are undoubtely putting more pressure on the suspects to get them talking. Apart from their statements there is not much to go by that we know. So it’s not because they don’t give any information that they are not doing anything. i hope that Natalee will be found, and I hope alive but I’m fearing the worst.

      So please don’t boycot The Netherlands, France or Belgium :) We live in very nice countries and yes we see some things different than other people do but that may not be so bad. But you can continue to boycot Aruba though, that will make the prices drop and wil enable me to pass my upcoming holiday there!

    70. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:40 am

      By the very natur of tourism it is a slam bam thank you mam proposition. They see different people every day. Scenery and activities are limited. Many of the workers are imported from poor palces like Cominican Republic, Colombia, even Haiti. They probably live at the bottom of the feeding chain. It is a nice island but perhaps overlaoded with tourists and no other options. They will take a hit. There are other places to go get drunk and sunburned and the competition is fierce.

    71. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 8:41 am

      i wish i didnt agree with the boycott idea, i just love that place- but until someone steps out of the bubble and admits theya they have a growing problem and need topolice areas like nightclubs after hours, insist that secrutiy cameras are on the exits etc, and start cracking down on the drug dealers or just EVEN ADMIT that these are problems- i would have a lot more respect if someone stepped up to the plate and admitted that this could have been avoided, they were ignoring the growing bad culture uprising “hoping it wouild go away” I mean we all know carlos and charlies- why it isnt policed at last call is beyond me… A cop in america WOULD NOT have let a staggering girl intpo a car w/ three men NO WAY! this should hve been seen by someone of have we all just become selfish hedonists. THANKS ARUBA DAD for your words as well, i am sure the way this hits home is extraordinary for you- but where i admit you have some good points i hope that you can see where we are coming from as well ….

    72. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:41 am

      CONCLUSION from the FACTS: The 2 security guards are completely innocent and were arrested for a diversion (1), or because of incompetence(2).

      REASONING: We know as a fact that the boys and their car never went to the Holiday Inn (security guards testimony and cameras). If they never went to the HI, then there was never a “black uniformed guard” to help her into the HI.

      This was known by local police within 48 hours of NH’s dissappearance.

      QUESTION: Why were the security guards picked up and why are they still being held?

    73. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:42 am

      there is an area where the garbage is dumped in the ocean , appearntly to keep the sharks on that side of the island.. so its entirely possible..

    74. Teo on June 13th, 2005 8:42 am

      Deep troath,

      Ok, in that case I d appoligize.. Arubadag.com has other obligations also, just like CNN has other obligations, and they did not even apologize for their false news and now they do not even have their own citizen news on their frontpage any more.

      Nuff said, I have to go in a couple of minutes,let us keep a positive mind and put Natalee in prayer and bring her before God. God is just and is the only one who is truly righteous.

      Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Philipians 4:6,7 King James Bible

      Sincerly, Teo

    75. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:43 am

      I would not be so sure of the self-serving statements of the Holiday Inn. They want to be able to say they had nothing to do with the loss of a guest.

    76. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:43 am

      im still boycotting france..and doubt i ll ever stop…

    77. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 8:44 am

      Why boycott Aruba? Do you really think these “professional” Aruban authorities would be doing this much if it wasn’t for the media talking about the story non-stop?

      Or would they say “Sorry Mrs. Holloway-Twitty but we are a tiny country and don’t have the means to look for her or properly interrogate the suspect’s we already released because there parents are rich locals. Have a nice day and leave a large portion of your money with the local economy before you leave. ”

      These guys are just going through the motions because the media is giving it press time. They only care about their pocketbook, not Natalee. As I said before BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!

    78. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:45 am

      i think everyone at the holiday inn has somehow escaped any scrutiny.. id be giving everyone there ann anal…that joint is like a frat house.. im not kidding

    79. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:46 am

      it s easy to erase a tape…

    80. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:46 am

      “I would not be so sure of the self-serving statements of the Holiday Inn. They want to be able to say they had nothing to do with the loss of a guest. ”

      NH’s mother has reviewed the security videos herself and stated the car never showed up. The Guards outside the HI confirm what the video showed.

    81. Rob on June 13th, 2005 8:47 am

      id still check those guards.. why do they get a free pass?

    82. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:48 am

      Natalee’s mother reviewed the video within 24 hours of the dissappearnace. Erase a tape? Not likely that it would be located and dubbed out that quickly. HI employees knew nothing of the dissappearance until 12 hours after it happened.

    83. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 8:48 am

      did anyone say if they have checked inside all of the hotel rooms on the islamd? homes etc? it is an easy place to hide someone w/ a dont disturb sign… we are ruling out any kidnapping? have they barked up that tree? Maybe they “traded” her for drugs or something… seedy little creeps

    84. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:49 am

      i thought the camera on the entrance was down. Why not suspect the Holiday Inn Guards too? Here is what Riehl says: Lawyers Lejuez and Pieters, retained by the two security guards first arrested in the Natalee Holloway, case are emphasizing the fact that hotel security has confirmed that there is no indication Natalee Holloway returned to her hotel the night of her disappearance and they are demanding the release of their clients.i

    85. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 8:50 am

      A dead body will sink because there is no air in the lungs (obvious)
      Decompostion of muscular tissues would occur as well as, predators like crabs and fish would be expected to seek large food sources first (not mentioning sharks).

      Also denizens of the deep would likely consume the remains in a matter of days.

    86. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:51 am

      Who says HI did not know about the disappearance, HI press spokeman/spinner? They did let under age Joran into their casino.

    87. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:52 am

      “i thought the camera on the entrance was down. Why not suspect the Holiday Inn Guards too?”

      A rumor later denied by the HI – the camera was working and showed no grey/silver Honda arriving that morning – period.

    88. kip on June 13th, 2005 8:53 am

      Some more legalities that should be taken into account is that this guy,the young one that is supposedly had been in the back seat with Miss Holoway
      is a juvenile,and he cannot be questioned without the presense of his parents one or both.Non the less one of them must be present when detectives wish to question him.He has had almost a week to get his or his parents story down pat as to what to say and what not to say.The good lord knows poppa has alot to loose.Hence you can bet that poppa made sure that his son knows his rights.Up here we watched his mums interview several times and she certainly knows a whole lot more than she admits to.But she is also his mum and she is very snappy when answering questions.Also her interviews useing words like “my son gave a naive statement” etc.You can bet he told his mum and poppa has programmed this kid to say exactly what they told him to when they are not present.
      Also we belive this is a drug related case.It is known the two security guards where being questioned about thefts in the HI from this particular groups visit to Aruba.Hence this gives the police enough probable cause to hold them indefinately.Also they are known to be drug dealers.The three
      young suspects also have drug related backgrounds along with their prsent onging problems.This also leads us to belive all five of them probably know each other.If these people think they cannot be convicted because there isn’t a body presently they better find better lawyers than they already have.

    89. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:53 am

      I thought the dead body floated at some point before it sinks for good.

    90. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 8:54 am

      anyone look near the airport? maybe she escaped and tried to get to the airport…

    91. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:55 am

      “Who says HI did not know about the disappearance, HI press spokeman/spinner? They did let under age Joran into their casino.”

      Letting Joran into the casino has nothing to do with cameras working or not or whether or not employees know anything about the dissappearance.

    92. Bill on June 13th, 2005 8:57 am

      Rob, erase a tape? That’s a stretch, isn’t it? I mean, Nixon erased a portion of a tape and that was quite damning in and of itself. I would think if an erased tape or portion thereof were discovered, the HI would be ground zero for any investigation.

    93. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 8:57 am

      Letting Joran into the casisno (he was appaently a regular) does show lax security. and in my mind raises doubts about the entire operation.

    94. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 8:59 am

      from info I have on hand – there is no minimum age for casinos in Aruba. if this is incorrect, would someone please let us know what the actual FACT is?

    95. Teo on June 13th, 2005 9:00 am

      Marie from maine: but until someone steps out of the bubble and admits theya they have a growing problem and need topolice areas like nightclubs after hours, insist that secrutiy cameras are on the exits etc, and start cracking down on the drug dealers or just EVEN ADMIT that these are problems-

      Marie, these are problems that I think that officialy Aruba will not admit to international press because it will make things worse, though it is stil nothing compared with most countries in the world.

      But before this has happened, the problems where recoginzed by arubian governement, they were working very hard to combat all these crimes etc. etc. But you cannot know that because you were (of course not) following arubian news prior to this case of natalee.

      The minister of Justice Rudy Croes isdoing a lot of work to combat every kind of crime
      He introduced many things, and i will summ up some of them
      Coast Guard (drug and illegals)
      Radar (to detect drugs and illegal traffic before it gets close to arubian coast)]
      Flexi Team( to give local police a chance to concentrate on bigger things
      Visibilty Team (for minor things just like flexi, for example drugs addicts who are begging for money etc.)
      ID obligation (people are required to carry ID all thetime so illegal can be catched and put out of the island)

      And more can be read for example at http://www.aruba.com/phpNews/wmview.php?ArtID=305

      http://www.aruba.com/phpNews/wmview.php?ArtID=433

      and the idea of visibility team even won a award:
      The Aruba Police Force won first place in the under-1,000 category for its Hospitality and Security Foundation Visibility Team Project. That project coordinated among local business and community leaders to better protect the island’s crucial tourism areas. The police force is now better equipped and is more visible.

      to read it for yourself: http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=5510752

      And read also below: http://www.olmco.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rvbooth/cdmmanager/headlines.cgi?47

      Of course Aruba is not free from any crime, but changes are very low compared to other countries. That does not take away the sad fact about Natalee, neither is it a comfort for the parents of Natalee.

      Sincerly, Teo

    96. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 9:01 am

      you have to be at leat 18 years old and able to show indentification

    97. deepthroat2 on June 13th, 2005 9:03 am

      thanks Dutch Dad.

      “Letting Joran into the casisno (he was appaently a regular) does show lax security.”

      I would guess that either they knew him and let him in, or he had a fake ID. If he was a regular and they knew he was underage, it just shows that they knew him and let him in – NOT that they were “lax”.

    98. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 9:03 am

      They are missing the “show identification” part. Looks like money can take you a long way over there.

    99. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 9:04 am

      where did they drop her, at the entrance, at the lobby, or at the pool (as one of Natalee’s fellow students says). I understood the lobby camera was ok but not the one at the entrance from the street (there is a portico). HI knew the Natalee room was occupied after the group she was in left (or did they remove the bags to storage). Holiday Inn had knowledge and their story bears scritiny. This is a criminal investigation, not a public relations exercise.

    100. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:04 am

      No way the 3 would risk any piece of her washing up …no way…..
      Joran should be crying in jail…and he would probably blame it on his daddy
      if he could… Lies…

      Aruba girl?

      Are locals still looking???

    101. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 9:05 am

      look where their “knowing him” led.

    102. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:05 am

      iquitos—-

      Not even nh mother believes she went back to the HI…read back,bro…

    103. Teo on June 13th, 2005 9:06 am

      There is a minimum age for casino entrance, I think it was 18 years, and for locals officialy it is even only 4 times a month.

      The island is small and everbody knows eachoter, so incidental case that casino controlers let people they know enter more than 4 times a month oryounger than 18 can happen and is not excluded. Though they should know better and if being caught by letting people enter while not allowed, could bring the casino controller in problems.

      Sincerly, Teo

    104. 33 on June 13th, 2005 9:08 am

      BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!

    105. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:12 am

      dutch dad—-

      Please let us know if you would be kind enough to translate when the 2 new experts / when these give us all the “facts” in yet another langauge??

    106. SoInSo on June 13th, 2005 9:15 am

      J was not just anyone, 1 reason places like HI/CC looked the other way while he drank, gambled, etc., plus he was giving them business. JMO

    107. Sl on June 13th, 2005 9:15 am

      Whose car was impunded (the Honda)

      Initially, I was led to believe the Honda was Van Sloot’s. Now, I am reading reports that it belonged to the 21 y.o. Surinamese bro.

    108. Teo on June 13th, 2005 9:16 am

      Hello I saw this next to 1 comment of my;

      Teo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      May I ask what exactly did I say that mine comments is awaiting moderation?
      Did I say something wrong?

      If so..what??

      Waiting for an answer

      Sincerly, Teo

    109. SoInSo on June 13th, 2005 9:17 am

      Boycotting Aruba is only hurting the innocent, as far as I’m concerned -

    110. Tom on June 13th, 2005 9:18 am

      Teo,

      You did nothing stupid , odds are that it had more than 2 links in it, they automatically go into moderation

      T

      Will check now

    111. Teo on June 13th, 2005 9:18 am

      Ok, thanks… what a relief :-)

      Sincerly, Teo

    112. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:18 am

      Rafa?
      Sleep well? Good morning…
      It was quick…
      7 or more head shots of locals in 30′s-40′s =/-…all heads in frames and going by quicklike on a film…heads rolling on this one I think.

    113. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 9:21 am

      Theory #345

      Joran was dropped off at his parents’ house after they went to location A, then surinamese brothers took advantage of the girl, then something bad happened.

    114. Jairo on June 13th, 2005 9:26 am

      Hi, long time I haven’t been in here. I hope you guys join us in the yahoo group we have. Many information coming in today so come in and you will be told what is going on. If you don’t believe ask anyone in the chatroom. You’re cordially invited.

    115. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:27 am

      When Miickey gets out as much as he wants to talk, he should hold out for a paycheck from the enquirer/etc….. If he can’t sue for defamation of charachter at least in some way he will be comp for this ordeal…. His lawyer I hope has told both gaurds this…wonder if Lejeune checks on monkeys?

    116. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 9:30 am

      @ friend of mickey john

      Let me know when to translate !!

    117. Smilin_Camus on June 13th, 2005 9:33 am

      What are the thoerys, if there are any, about the past 2 days misinformation spree? I understand that the u.s. media is likely guilty of at least some of it, and there are launguge problems, and that there might even be compelling and justified reasons for false info to be given out, but with SO many false resports coming out, one has to start wondering if the people in charge of this are either bumbling or lying. I’m honestly trying to keep open minded about all this, but my confidence in the people investigating this dwindles with each false report. I honestly hope that I’m wrong, and that this girls partents and the entire island of aruba don’t have to suffer over a few peoples bad actions.

    118. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 9:33 am

      i subscribed to aruba am but it did not come this morning!

    119. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:37 am

      dutch dad-
      Based on things so far, they will have each official,
      officially commenting on no new dvlpmts in long sentences expressing hope to still find nh……pm of mis info in papiamento….police in dutch….some spanish…anything to say something to the press that when translated = nada….but by then we’ll have to wait for next press update….
      Sorry if I sound cynical…I am.

    120. Tom on June 13th, 2005 9:40 am

      Got a message from ArubaGirl. She is at work and unable to post during the day.

      Her impression is that Aruba has gone into Lock Down mode on the story. It is off the radio, off the TV, they even took down the link at Arubadag.com. Emails are going around that you should go onto web sites to protect the name of Aruba.

      Also reported that the all press was asked to back off, and Americans did not while the locals did. So we have some resentment there by politico’s and the police.

      T

    121. Smilin_Camus on June 13th, 2005 9:43 am

      Is there anyway that some of the false reports could have been an attempt to teach the u.s. media a “lesson”? Not by the aruban gov as a whole, but by induviduals?

    122. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 9:47 am

      Is the pm managing the pr campaign and the investigation, Note his arrival back on the island wwas followed by the arrest of the tree responding to public opinion that the two had been unfairly detained. this case is obviously political. they had to arrest somebody so they went for the guards first and then the three because the guards did not sell.

    123. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 9:47 am

      i dont thing aruba needs to worry about people boycotting their country….most people look at this and understand whats going on….its not rocket scientistry…kids all over the world get put in these situations every day….unfortunately the police in these foreign islands dont have the experience or in some case proper training to hone their craft….sometimes even other social and racial and class issues arise…likei said before..power and influence are relative to what is going on their….people who would be normal business men or professionals are big wigs ….its a big fish in a little pond scenario..i know this first hand….i live it day to day..on the caribbean island i live on.
      Fact is we have had a high prfile missing woman here and tourists never stopped coming as a result. And we have our share of the spring break crowd….wild things go on…its a wonder more things dont happen when booze is brought into the equation…what people need to do is let natalees lesson prevent them or their children form innocently getting in same situation..that would be a blessing coming out of this tragedy

    124. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 9:47 am

      yeah papiamento is a diffecult to follow language, but on Amigoe.com you’ll find the latest news in dutch so i’ll try to find out what’s going on

    125. Tom on June 13th, 2005 9:48 am

      Thanks Dutch Dad

    126. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:49 am

      Tom

      mickey would love to hear from me. He called me a few days before he was arrested…. any idea how I could get his lawyers e-mail???

      Unfortunately I know how he will be bombed by press…. he isn’t going to know what to do and lets be real his atty wants the spotlight is good for his business,,,,but not at gaurds expense. If they can get a big check, they won’t have to sue anyone for defam of char (oops- also not a way for c. Lejeune to get fat paycheck on that case…)

      anyway..I feel for him because I went thru this years ago.
      I was sx assaulted by a Boston doctor… No lawyer wanted to take case because it’s hard/ $$ to sue a doctor…Years after I gave up and filed a complnt to BORM thiss perp fkd with someone “important” years later and case blew wide open / state of ma prosected it. I was one of 8 women who fell within stat of limitations so had to do thegrand jury and was major part of trial…I was mobbed outside court on each occasion and on news, etc…. I’m glad the guy got 6 in cedar jnctn jail…He’s still there…
      Ijust know what the gaurds are going to get hit with, and I understand they want to tell everyone the truth…but if they wait, they’ll get paid for each word..
      Any thoughts, Tom???

    127. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 9:50 am

      i think the flase reports were designed to put pressure and play on teh minds of the 3 suspects..wondering if the other spoke…now after 10 days…they are goingt o be much harder to get a confession from …getting their story straight etc…..like i have said before..a HUGE mistake, letting those boys go ..and no one can say otherwise!

    128. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:51 am

      iquitos….no aruba am????? Someone must be pulling strings…

    129. HIS on June 13th, 2005 9:52 am

      NLT Revelation 18:2 He gave a mighty shout, “Babylon is fallen– that great city is fallen! She has become the hideout of demons and evil spirits, a nest for filthy buzzards, and a den for dreadful beasts. 3 For all the nations have drunk the wine of her passionate immorality. The rulers of the world have committed adultery with her, and merchants throughout the world have grown rich as a result of her luxurious living.” 4 Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. 5 For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God is ready to judge her for her evil deeds. 6 Do to her as she has done to your people. Give her a double penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so give her twice as much as she gave out. 7 She has lived in luxury and pleasure, so match it now with torments and sorrows. She boasts, ‘I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow. I will not experience sorrow.’ 8 Therefore, the sorrows of death and mourning and famine will overtake her in a single day. She will be utterly consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty.” 9 And the rulers of the world who took part in her immoral acts and enjoyed her great luxury will mourn for her as they see the smoke rising from her charred remains. 10 They will stand at a distance, terrified by her great torment. They will cry out, “How terrible, how terrible for Babylon, that great city! In one single moment God’s judgment came on her.” 11 The merchants of the world will weep and mourn for her, for there is no one left to buy their goods. 12 She bought great quantities of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple dye, silk, scarlet cloth, every kind of perfumed wood, ivory goods, objects made of expensive wood, bronze, iron, and marble. 13 She also bought cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, olive oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle, sheep, horses, chariots, and slaves– yes, she even traded in human lives. 14 “All the fancy things you loved so much are gone,” they cry. “The luxuries and splendor that you prized so much will never be yours again. They are gone forever.” 15 The merchants who became wealthy by selling her these things will stand at a distance, terrified by her great torment. They will weep and cry. 16 “How terrible, how terrible for that great city! She was so beautiful– like a woman clothed in finest purple and scarlet linens, decked out with gold and precious stones and pearls! 17 And in one single moment all the wealth of the city is gone!”And all the shipowners and captains of the merchant ships and their crews will stand at a distance. 18 They will weep as they watch the smoke ascend, and they will say, “Where in all the world is there another city like this?” 19 And they will throw dust on their heads to show their great sorrow. And they will say, “How terrible, how terrible for the great city! She made us all rich from her great wealth. And now in a single hour it is all gone.” 20 But you, O heaven, rejoice over her fate. And you also rejoice, O holy people of God and apostles and prophets! For at last God has judged her on your behalf.

    130. Rob on June 13th, 2005 9:53 am

      tom read your comment… i kinda got that feeling on saturday….bad enough that there s apparently no progress but now they seem to think that not talking about it., will somehow easy the public relation strain that occurred, i have to say… they are extremely mistaken.. this is how they will end up taking a hit… when you are forth coming, ppl tend to give you the benefit of time, if the are not going to be up front.. well thats a problem.

    131. Rob on June 13th, 2005 9:56 am

      no aruba am here either…

    132. Mark 2 on June 13th, 2005 9:56 am

      First of all, I am with Im a Hater and 33. There are pretty of beautiful islands to go to. Lets boycott and put this country on its knees. Although the Arubian police is out of their league on this one, my take is it is more of protecting the brat and not total incompetence.

      They were so quick to throw the security guards in jail but yet claimed they didn’t have enough at first to detain the three young guys. Give me a break! Also, it is apparent they aren’t letting the FBI take a general role in this. In Chicago, I was in on interrogations myself alot of the time and we never had a case where it took this long to break the weakest kid in a group. Within 48 hours one of them should have been singing like a church choir. Of course, giving them 10 days to get rid of evidence and be coached by attorneys may have something to do with that.

      I guarantee you that if the FBI hadn’t been there and they hadn’t received pressure from our government, those guards would have taken the rap and rotted in prison for what those kids didn.

      I say we need to show them they can’t treat Americans that way and not suffer the consequences. Push for a boycott.

    133. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:57 am

      Rob-
      What do you think happens next??? Just speculating is okay, right?

    134. Red on June 13th, 2005 9:57 am

      Anyone from Aruba, do the Aruban officials like Rudy Croes or Minster of Tourism have email? If so and if anyone knows site to go to or email accts could you please email it to red or tom. Very much appreciated.

      Red

    135. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 9:58 am

      thats the whole point…the officials on these islands are very isolated….lets face it..allwe know is what we have personally experienced..it does not shock me that this is happened or that they have handled it this way..but in same breath i understand it….

    136. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:58 am

      Thanx guys

    137. 33 on June 13th, 2005 9:59 am

      lisabobeesa-

      BOYCOTT- You should worry. Trust me…..What Island are you from?

    138. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 9:59 am

      Better idea- lets get my friend a ticket to Boston…he needs to get a few days to know whats up next.. I can charge it.

    139. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 9:59 am

      I suspect that the initial slow reaction reflected the idea that natalee would show up and everything would be ofk. they were in denial. They wanted to beleive the boys from prominent families. When she did not reappear, they became desperate and went afer the gurds since they believed the boys woul not do something bad. then the time was up and the thing spiraled out of control. I was struck from the beginning by the weakness of the press reporting. AP got the facts but they were few and far between. the rest were sensationalist. I can’t speak about the local press although I have read it in Papiamento (I know Spanish) and Dutch which I speak). It is hard to understand how this case on a small island where everybody knows everybody is so hard to solve and why there is so little good information out there. The best reportage I have seen is the interview with Joran’s mother in the aruba paper (I think Bon Dia).

    140. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:00 am

      What about cell phone records the night of the disappearance? Has anyone heard anything about that. Who did they call, when did the calls take place, have the questioned the people called?

    141. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:01 am

      if u have been to one island ..you have pretty much seen em all..in my opinion…the basic foundational elements are very similar…no one island is without same issues…people flock here to see the beauty but dont understand there is always a down side to every place….top notch homicide units arent one of the perks…oh my!

    142. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 10:02 am

      If this cover-up succeeds; Joran and friends are released – perhaps it is time to raise money to see that they receive the justice they truly deserve. Then we as an american public can simply give Aruba the same treatment they are giving Natalee’s family –

      1. Breaking news and then backtracking on it
      2. Hide the evidence of the murder with the assistance of the police and judges
      3. Announce forever after that “we are doing the best we can

      While I have ALWAYS been against vigilante justice, I am now becoming understanding of why this type of justice has been employed in the past.

    143. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:02 am

      im from jamaica…and peopel flock here …we have a much more notorious reputation for crime

    144. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:02 am

      Honestly- I was a victim at one point, and if our govt /officials are so good/concerned for victims why didn’t they show us eight victims the back door of the crthouse? AUA sure won’t.. they may be planning parades.

    145. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:03 am

      Brenda-
      Are you at work in NC?

    146. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:04 am

      all islands share same backwardness where law enforcement is concerned..i am a canadian and when i moved here 6 years ago i was very shocked at how the standard was compromised..for safety and corruption…point is..this is the backside to tropics….

    147. kip on June 13th, 2005 10:05 am

      Folks wishing to boycott Aruba should be ashamed thats like saying your takeing your kids out of a certain school because a kid with mental problems and armed to the teeth like a baby rambo shoots up a local school.This has happened and who boycotted Bowling ? The Arubian people didn’t do this to Ms.Holloway as a whole ! A few bad people don’t make the island of Aruba a bad place to vacation,visit or live. I wish people here in the USa where half as nice as the people of Aruba. To each their own though……..its the way of the USA……..freedom of speech

    148. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:05 am

      aruba am usually is sent out just before midnight but last night none was sent to me. maybe they don’t publish on monday or maybe they are delayed.

    149. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:07 am

      33 i dont think a boycott is a very rational idea….i see kids here every day of the week..i cna walk into our local clubs and see same dynaics at work..people vacationing , locals preying on them….trust me….you can run but u cant hide…there is no fantasy island…its a vacation dynamic….best you can do is educate yourself and your own family as to these possible dangers….and let natalees misfortune be a lesson …to heighten awareness

    150. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:08 am

      Let’s save the boycott talk until we know what happened for sure.

      Regardless, this whole thing doesn’t make any sense to me. But can anyone answer my previous questions about the cell phones?

    151. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:09 am

      sorry friend of mj… i was in the shower…. what happens next?… well let s start with letting these 2 innocent guys outta jail.. that would be a good place to begin…

    152. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:09 am

      all the rest of the goobledy gook is just that….everyone looking for a place to pin the blame….when really only way to eradicate roblem is to educate and heaighten awareness..thats where the focus and attention should lie..the rest just propogates more hate and evil.

    153. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:10 am

      diario friday says the boys were under intense physical and electronic surveillance from day one. computers, cell phones, etc. i guess the most likely charge you can prove is murder but you need a body.

    154. 33 on June 13th, 2005 10:10 am

      I’ve stayed in negril, Montego Bay and Falmouth Beautiful County/Island

    155. Tom on June 13th, 2005 10:10 am

      Some one at Fox is reporting something will happen momentarily.

      Friend of Mickey John, I have no emails but am looking and put out feelers. I have a feeling getting in touch with him is going to be near impossible between the government and the lawyers. sorry to hear about the ordeal you went through

    156. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 10:11 am

      I am still for boycotting Aruba. Does this hurt the innocent people? No. As you all said this is a small country. A small country with tons and tons of dollars coming in from tourists. So this money is going to the locals and the businesses there (which are probably foreign owned). So the locals have seen these problems growing and never thought to improve their police and coast guard capabilities to an appropriate degree? If it is such a small country, it should only take a small movement to push the corrupt Prime Minister to correct these problem areas. Think about it, if enough locals pushed the PM to increase the amount of money flowing into the local government rather than filling the pockets of a few foreign owned business owners and a few corrupt Aruban officials, I bet they would make the change. The PM’s goal should be to improve the local law enforcement to a degree to make everyone safe and stop the illegal drug traffic flowing through his country. With the money they have flowing into that country they could make that place a SAFE and enjoyable island paradise. Instead a few fat cats are going to continue to suck that place dry until crime continues to rise and absolutely no one will go there. What will the innocents think of that? BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    157. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 10:11 am

      Oke CNN talked to Jorans mum and according to her he told her “Don’t worry i’m innocent and everything will be allright, i didn’t do anything ” He even offerd to talk to the family of NH.

      There was an misunderstanding about a change of district attourny Karin Janssen, it seems that a part of the search team had some problems with the “dutch”DA, so they brought DA Amelin Flamegin to work together with DA Janssen.

      I can’t find anything about the 2 interregators from holland, except that they keep the pressure on the suspects.

      They brought in a “rechter commisaris” from Curacao to prevent any preconception
      ( rechter commissaris is a high judge who can overrule jorans dad )

    158. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:11 am

      here s the problem… they keep making statments and backtracking… these are not media ppl. but aruban officials… i still cant believe that bs that happened on saturday… did i dream all that or what?

    159. SoInSo on June 13th, 2005 10:12 am

      “Something is out of whack” Good ol Geraldo

    160. Tom on June 13th, 2005 10:12 am

      Lisa,

      The key is to find Natalee and be as transparent as possible. Americans can live with Aruba not having the best police in the world. They will have trouble if Natalee’s Mom gets up on center stage and says Aruba is not cooperating.

      That is my fear. The leaders of Aruba will go into a bunker mentality and pray it will all go away, and that only gets the press going even more so.

      Tom

    161. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:14 am

      well said tom

    162. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:15 am

      vd sloot has been attributed with those statements to his mother.. i ve also seen em…

    163. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:16 am

      i agree whole heartedly…a very tricky situation..i dont envy the task at hand or even pretend to know what i would do…

      But i do know that i respect Natalees mom for keeping quiet and co-operating as long as she has…..i think her judgement call to speak out recently was the only thing she could do…to increase the probability that her daughter be found…or at least find out what happened..but who really knows right? no manuals for this one!

    164. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:17 am

      aruba am just arrived…

    165. bubbalou on June 13th, 2005 10:17 am

      From a Rhiel world comment…don’t know if there is any truth to it at all…

      UPDATE 20: TOP95 FM (Aruban radio station) reported on Monday that they have received information about the story that the suspect Joran van der Sloot gave to the police. The radio station got this information from the attorney that is representing the suspect Abraham Jones. Jones is being held at the same location as Joran and he has been hearing/getting information from within the institute. According to the attorney ,Jones declared that Joran is convinced that he is being framed. Joran is saying that he did not go to the lighthouse with the group at all. He testified that after he left the club, he caught a ride home with his Surinamese friends, the brothers Kalpoe. At that time Natalee Holloway was in the car. Joran allegedly testified that the Kalpoes dropped him off at his home and drove off with Natalee in car. It was only afterwards (a few days later), around his swimming pool, that the Kalpoes made plans to come out with one version of the events. But now it seems that they are trying to frame Joran. The attorney also told the radio station that his client has been hearing Joran van der Sloot sobbing a lot lately.

    166. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 10:18 am

      After reading that dutch guy that calls himself a father, I can see how the Dutch still have this arrogant view of Arubians and law in general. It is no wonder that Arubians refer dutch people as MACAMBA

    167. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:18 am

      well they are trying to crack the suspects ..get them to talk..so my hunch is that the officials were issuing statements and playing with their minds…not aware of the effects of this on media and teh family..not thought through….

    168. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:19 am

      Rob-I just showered too? anyone else?
      Gotta go work a little
      but my guess and I said before…when jackson starts to go in, sh.t will start to come out..Any bets?

    169. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:21 am

      bubbaloo-
      do you buy that Joran had to go to bed early??

    170. Minnesota Dad on June 13th, 2005 10:21 am

      Many, many people here keep missing the whole point of why this is an outrage.

      It is very clear that this has been a cover-up from day 1 to get the Dutch Judge’s kid out of this mess. We have had wrong arrests of stooges, statements refuted by cameras, and the Judge’s kid wasn’t interrogated until at least 10 days after…though he was the last one seen with Holloway.

      THIS IS A COVER-UP….

      This is why there is outrage. This is why the calls for BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

      If an Aruban teenager went to Miami for a graduation party, was last seen with the priviledged son of a prominent Dade County Judge, disappeared, a couple of stooges are arrested to attempt to clear the Judge’s kid, etc. etc. What would the people of Aruba be doing? They would be marching every day in front of our Embassy demanding answers to the cover-up.

      This is why there is the call to BOYCOTT ARUBA!!! It is our way of protesting “in front of the embassy”. At some point in time the Dutch authorities should place the Dutch Judge under arrest for assisting a crime.

      The Holloway family was told to “back off” of the media interviews yesterday. They need to step up the use of media. As well as start promoting that people Boycott Aruba!!! The Aruban government is squirming and an all out media campaign is the only way to flush them out.

      So, please, don’t post about how nice the people are….or the island is…or that Natalee Holloway is to blame….please stick to the core of this whole mess. WHY ARE YOU ALLOWING YOUR GOVERNMENT TO COVER-UP FOR THE JUDGE’S KID, ARUBA?

    171. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:22 am

      well blaming the brothers would be sloots only out at this point…pretty likely teh two would team up..as brothers and vice versa….its his only really argument..”wasnt me…..!! “seems they are slowly cracking them ..so things are on track

    172. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:22 am

      what about the friends of these guys…yeah, she was seen leaving w/ the 3 of them…but from all accounts, they were very close w/ other guys, freddy and jaime, being the two in EVERY picture almost on Joran and the Kalpoe’s websites. These guys have to know something. And the whole planning around the swimming pool doesn’t make sense. Joran talked with NH’s stepfather the day after she disappeared, why would he not have brought that story out then? He’s a liar.

    173. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 10:22 am

      http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/natalee_hollowa_7 .html

      According to this article, to me it sounds like this girl was snatched from the clutches of her friends. This may have been the last time Natalee could have a change to still be alive. I think ruffies was probably introduced to this girl, and she had to be taken out before she passes out. We assume that this Joran because he is 17 is not the leader of the pack, 6.3, Dutch, rich, influential father, even his 2 lackeys of a friends 18, 21 were probably his ‘boys’

    174. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:23 am

      friend: If you are referring to M. Jackson i agree. They have been hoping all week that the verdict story would eclipse Natalee but the jury is not cooperating.

    175. kip on June 13th, 2005 10:24 am

      Ok guys where did this cell phone information come from?
      You all seem to forgive the 2 security guys easily they are being held on grand theft charges related to HI. Not exactly the case at hand they caught them on security tape stealing from Natalees group’s rooms.

    176. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 10:24 am

      I don’t buy the story that Joran was “dropped off” while his friends “are all to blame” for anything that happened and is being framed. Sounds like a story he is telling mama to hide his guilt.

      Enough is enough. Either Aruba owns up to who made the confession, the place they are storing her body, and convict these three….perhaps we as an American public should “encourage” them a bit stronger.

      As a bare minimum – a boycott of the island to punish the islanders for the cover-up. Decide for yourselves what needs to be done to Joran and cohorts… If they go free – I personally do not give a damn what happens to them.

    177. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:24 am

      Tom-

      thanx for looking and understanding… maybe I know this personally to one day help a friend in similar situation…I would let him come stay here. Now I worry their lawyer will pimp them for all it’s worth. MJ wouldn’t see it comming after not seeing the light of day for over a week.

    178. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:25 am

      oh my! i am in Miami many times a month….and i wouldnt be at all surprised if cover ups occurred….especially there….i think you have missed the point..and propogating more hate is teh last thing any of us need….especially under teh guise of having high morals

    179. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 10:25 am

      if you are rerefering to me Compananzi, it’s just a translation from amigoe.com

      The dutch don’t have an arrogant view of arubians we’re proud that Aruba belongs to the Netherlands. But what will you know about the Dutch !!

    180. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 10:25 am

      I hope with this that Joran what ever the outcome, get denied by all public and private schools in America. No one want to have a SEXUAL PREDATOR, in there mist. The killing of an AMERICAN citizen in a foreign land is basically a TERRORIST act.

    181. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 10:25 am

      Justice might be slow, things might not what we want as of now, but they are making sure the right person goes to Jail.

    182. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 10:26 am

      DutchDAD,

      I know alot more and see more perspective than your twee dimentional view. Sorry One dimentional.

    183. A guy on June 13th, 2005 10:27 am

      I go to church with a local Birmingham, AL FBI agent who’s office is where the agents ALL have come out of. He told me yesterday that they Aruban Police have kept them out of the loop on most things and will not let them step in and “do their thing”. My buddy says he has no idea where media has stated there were as many 13 13 agents in Auba. He syas they have only 4 guys there from the Birmingham, AL office and he MAY be going soon. What is the use of having our guys down there if the locals won’t let us help. He also says that from everything his office sees, the 2 guards have nothing to do with this.

    184. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:27 am

      i am just wondering if they called anyone from their cell phones that night and who they called…pure speculation. I am wondering if other people could have somehow been involved.

    185. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:27 am

      Brenda-
      are you following me since birth or do I have you confused with someone else who sounds just like you even in type… Go back to work.

    186. DutchDad on June 13th, 2005 10:29 am

      @compananzi

      Whahahaha get a life loser
      ( of kan het gewoon in nederlands ? )

    187. bubbalou on June 13th, 2005 10:29 am

      naw, but if Sloot is changing his story then the unified front is breaking.

      So far this has been going in the direction of being unresolved and it looks like all we have is potential testimony and no forensic evidence. So if we don’t get the truth from at least one of these guys, they will probably walk and we will never know what has happened.

    188. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:29 am

      Tom-
      for what its worth i’m going to try mj cell # from my office. Leaving soon….maybe his mom will answer.

    189. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:30 am

      i dont buy that vd sloot was dropped off.. he was the one interested in natalee. why would nt he go …? i starting to think that natalee is not going to found and that these guys know that.. they just have to keep their story staight…so far they have made everyone look pretty stupid….

    190. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 10:31 am

      Don’t know you Mickey John, unless you hail from Houston…Are you here also?

    191. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:31 am

      Rob-
      Soon the body will be collected.

      So sad for her parents.

    192. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:32 am

      Brenda- still not sure about you…

    193. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:32 am

      well the other thing i see as loose ended was this altercation bewteen the boys form Natalees group and these 3 suspects earlier that evening….i wonder how much of that was probed? i see that as very relevant..far fetched but also..teh kennesy kid.mike slasko??? sp who was tried and convicted 20 some years after teh murder of a girl whom he and another boy both shared affectiosn over….amd she did not return feelings for…

    194. Tom on June 13th, 2005 10:33 am

      Friend of

      That sounds like the best idea. The mom would be able to talk to you, and you may be able to help her understand what is happenning. One thing I know about the carribean, is that the people on the island do not know how big the world is for the most part. You have to get off island maby times like Lisa to truly understand.

      T

    195. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:34 am

      it would be interesting to hear the accounts of her classmates as to the events at C and C that night and exactly who saw her get into the car and the state she was in.

    196. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 10:35 am

      So….how do we organize the boycott? Certainly it is time to contact en masse the United States Embassy for Aruba. The info is below:

      United States Consulate General Curacao
      P.O. Box 158, J.B. Gorsiraweg 1,
      tel 011-599(9)-461-3066, fax 011-599(9)-461-6489
      e-mail: info@amcongencuracao.an

      Hours of Operation:
      Monday-Friday 8 AM-5 PM.
      Consular Walk-In Hours Monday, Wednesday, Friday 9-11 AM ONLY.
      All offices are CLOSED on Saturday, Sunday,
      and for all United States of America and Curacao holidays.
      2005: US Holiday / Curacao Holiday Schedule

      AMERICAN CITIZEN SERVICES: info@amcongencuracao.an Tel: 011 599(9)461-3066, fax: 011-599(9)-461-6489

    197. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:35 am

      what’s this talk of “conclusion to the case momentarily”?

    198. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:36 am

      friend of mj….why are you so sure that a body exists?

    199. Bill on June 13th, 2005 10:36 am

      From AM Digital:
      According to Myrna Jansen-Feliciano, manager of the Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA), there are some cases where tourists have cancelled their intended trip to Aruba. “We know of some people that were scared off by the disappearance of Natalee. On the other hand, we have also talked to people that have never heard of Aruba before, and suddenly like to spend vacation on the island after having seen the images of Aruba on television.” Jansen says that the cancellations and the new bookings balance each other.
      —–

      Well, that’s the important thing!

    200. kip on June 13th, 2005 10:36 am

      You all need to give the system time to work.No one knows if anyone killed her or if she had a overdose of drugs or exactly what happened.
      But you best believe that these investigators are close to the truth.As I said earlier they cannot question a juvenile ie (the 17yr.old) without his parents consent and you knw his mum is not running down to the police atation hrridly to have her son convicted.Its also known up here in my LEO circles that this pure virgin girl was NOT a virgin to drugs,partying,etc.Look at both sides before anyone judges.But certainly the 3 young men are not angels.I belive that this Joran kid is the one they are concentrating on as in questions.Belive this,nothing is being said without his parent and lawyer present.The case is to high profiled now with all the media hype. Does anyone know if this Joran kid had any scratchs etc on his face or body the first time they picked him up?

    201. Tom on June 13th, 2005 10:36 am

      Ben if you look back at the comment posts, we have had people here that were on the trip and have some amazing commentary. Do a little digging and you will find what you are looking for.

    202. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:36 am

      well yes this is very true Tom…i am actually a canadian and so my views coming here ..very interesting..how people here view things….no right answer…as perception is our own reality

    203. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:37 am

      Where did this come from?

      You all seem to forgive the 2 security guys easily they are being held on grand theft charges related to HI. Not exactly the case at hand they caught them on security tape stealing from Natalees group’s rooms.

    204. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:37 am

      well yes this is very true Tom…i am actually a canadian and so my views coming here ..very interesting..how people here view things….no right answer…as perception is our own reality

    205. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:37 am

      NEW

      Judge just told fox he has such big/heavy case load he can’t decide to let bgaueds go until maybe WEDS!!!!!

      OMG

      Political FU big time.
      Maybe I’ll go get mj on Weds.

    206. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 10:38 am

      lisabobeesa- i really hope that you arent trying to pin this on americans- i hope that i misunderstood that

    207. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 10:39 am

      The only way to get the Aruban government to really get to the bottom of this is to continue to PUSH FOR A BOYCOTT OF ARUBA!!! They only care about money. Why do think every time the Prime Minister of Aruba talks he talks passionately about how wonderful Aruba is and how he hopes this doesn’t give Aruba a bad image. Translated — lets get this off the front page of media websites before our tourism dollars drop. I wish he was as passionate about getting the law enforcement authorities to solve this thing. I bet they will jump for joy when a verdict in the Micheal Jackson case comes out so the media will focus on that instead. Everyone, please for the sake of Natalee and her family…..BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!

    208. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:39 am

      kip-

      how much time to let system” work”
      which system…judicial or political…

    209. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:39 am

      freind of mj… how do you know a body will be discovered?

    210. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:39 am

      well yes and no doubt all teh hard core gamers will still flock there…i am in that business here…and they are a different breed of target market….i had a firein my casino and people were still putting coins in the machines..hahaha

    211. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:40 am

      If it is true HI can’t protect guest rooms from persons “known to the police” for hitting up tourists, how can one beleive anything they say about their securtiy? And how does aguy “known to the police” keep a high profile security job? Don’t they do background checks. Just possible they leaked the derogatory on the guards to throw the scent off Joran and Co. TH

    212. Juvenal on June 13th, 2005 10:42 am

      I think that there is ample evidence of both incompetence and indifference on the part of the Aruban investigators, and it makes me very angry.

      That said, I do believe that a lot of what is making us Americans angry about this case is that Dutch law operates very differently from American law, and it’s very frustrating for us, because the process is not as open.

      Make all the judgments you want about who has a better system. But understand that this is their law, and they have to abide by it (and, unfortunately, so do we).

    213. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:42 am

      marie from maine..i dont think you have misunderstood my posts…im not a finger pointer..not playing the blame game..far from it….im saying lets let this tragedy bring something good..and heighten our awareness and educate our young people on the dangers of what can happen ANYWHERE in the world…

    214. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 10:42 am

      Folks this is a simple case of homocide. These playboys, one whom father is so influential that he gets access to Casino, Alcohol, staying late at night, Private school, and driving at a non legal age. From these actions he must have done it at least one or 2 years already. This golden Boy however did one mistake, he did not count on the fast and influential connections of Natalee family.

      I am not convinced this image of the Arubian Police being Keystone Cops. I do believe as in previous cases of homicide here in the US, that this is a classic scenario. Rich influencial and well connected family, expecially in small sleepy community does influence criminal investigation. This notion of some spectacular organized crime taking Natalee to curacao or Venezuela is Red Herring. Wishful thinking even.

      I do hope Nel Oduber words hold true, that No One is above the Law.

    215. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 10:43 am

      The earlier reports on Saturday, including those reported at Amber Alert, CNN, Fox News…all said this:

      1. One confessed to murder.
      2. The confessor led police to site, body found and identified.

      Later Saturday, reports changed to this:

      1. “Something bad happened”
      2. “No body found”

      No reports go like this:

      1. “No confessions ever happened”
      2. “No body found”
      3. “We are just doing the best we can”

      I left a message at the site message board at http://www.aruba.com asking how a found body can be unfound, and a murder confession can be “untold”. I aslo suggested to teh people of Aruba that they contact their elected officials to see to this.

      Immediately afterwards the “Natalee Only” message board was deleted. They just started up another one this morning, and guess what – you can post but no posts ever show up.

      Some message board.

    216. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:44 am

      i mean you did misunderstand my posts..now i am sounding like the aruban officials..can i retract that?

    217. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:44 am

      Rob-

      Analogy…if you had something really stinky in your room like and old chhese sandwich, and your mom and dad smelled it but you deny its in there…you know then neighbors smell it bad too all down street Still you deny it is in your room at all but no one will leave your doorstep until you get the thing out so everyone can breathe….For a while you’d hope everyone goes, but stinks too bad as you lie….Eventually you have to at least throw the old chhees sand out the window…maybe someone else put it there, but still… then it’s over right…press can go
      Aruba can be one happy island

      Poor analogy but I gotta go to work

    218. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 10:44 am

      We don’t have to abide by their laws if we don’t go there anymore. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

    219. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:45 am

      brenda-it’s you. say hi to craig

    220. Tom on June 13th, 2005 10:45 am

      Juvenal

      Great point, one thing I will protect over even Natalee’s rights are the soveriegnty of Aruba as a nation. We can use diplomatic pressure, but at the end of the day, Aruba is their own country and their own laws.

      I will always respect that.

      tom

    221. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:46 am

      what the hell is going on ? this is getting into the realm of of a serious conspiracy… brenda…. what about jorans father s connections, not just in aruba but in holland?

    222. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 10:47 am

      http://www.amcongencuracao.an/

      #1. Boycott Aruba. See site listed above for the American Embassy to Aruba. That is at least one first place to start putting major pressure on.

      #2. When these boys go free, I don’t give a damn what happens to them. Does anyone else????

    223. Leo[NY] on June 13th, 2005 10:47 am

      When reading some of the posts here i am ashamed to be an American. What evidence is there of a cover up? i only see evidence of the opposite, working with the FBI, asking the Dutch Gov. and Dutch marines for assistence, why would they do that if there was a cover up. it will not help at all to have those outside people poking around.

      Let’s not forgot one thing here, as the people that did a little research on this know this: Arubian Law is different from U.S. Law. Untill people are formally charged it is uncommon for the Justice Department to comment on a case to protect the privacy of the people that are, untill then, still suspects. Things like cell phone records, whereabouts after 2.A.M etc are not likely to be released untill formal charges are filed.

      It’s our U.S. Media that started most rounds of false information, but let’s stick our heads in the sand. We all know that our own media needs headlines, and that if they don’t have them they won’t hesistate to make them up themselves. Our country invented this type of “media sensation” that is going on here.

      Personally i think those 3 boys know more, but i also believe in innocent untill proven guilty, so i won’t start screaming “Hang them” like some people here. If the police in Aruba made one mistake it was that they are not experienced in a case like this (especially with our media breathing down there neck). But the fact that they are not says crimes like this don’t happen alot there, and that is why i will be going back for the 5th year in a row in august without worries.

    224. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:48 am

      jamaica had an earthquake last night..i was in teh movietheatre at time…but quite a shaker….another downside to island life

    225. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 10:48 am

      I respect Aruba’s soverienty as well. But I respect my right as a consumer to spend my money where I want to. But if they want me to spend my money there they better fix their messed up little law enforcement system. They just want our money. Don’t give it to them until they earn it. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

    226. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:48 am

      f o mj … point taken, but i dont think they know where the cheese sandwich is… therefore no stink….

    227. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 10:48 am

      the system will prolly kick in, in another 2-3 weeks.

    228. friend of mickey john on June 13th, 2005 10:50 am

      Rob—
      somone does know…too many dirty hands
      really going now

    229. kip on June 13th, 2005 10:50 am

      Its known for over the last 24 hrs among law enforcement circles that the 2 security guards where caught on tape stealing from Natalees group electronic things,purses,and other items.Also its been put in print in a few US newspapers that they where arrested for grand theft and might be people of interest in this case.I am trying to recall exactly what the teletype said as they are being held for this reason.This is enough probable cause to hold both of them for as long as the Aruba police wish to.

    230. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:51 am

      the pm said on geraldo, on sat, that he expected a conclusion within 24 hours… how the hell does he know… and still there s no conclusion…

    231. W. Brown on June 13th, 2005 10:51 am

      Good point about belongins still being in hotel room. Does anyone still think, the “she ran away” theory makes any sense? Why wouldn’t she take more belonings and her PASSPORT if she had any hint of maybe not returning to the U.S.?

    232. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 10:52 am

      Here is the link to the college mentioned that Joran want to take a degree in Criminal Unjustice. How freakin Ironic…

      http://www.saintleo.edu/SaintLeo/Templates/Inner.aspx?durki=370&pid=370

    233. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:52 am

      As far as I know Joran’s father is a deputy/substitute judge of the Dutch iAntillean Judiciary. He is the equivalent of a federal judge. He was appointed by the Dutch government to his present position in 2002. There is a probable picture of him on the other son’s website. He is a burly guy with a postive face. Let’s not go after him just because he has a son who is in trouble. Life overseas is not easy on families and it is easy for kids to fall in with the wrong crowd or benefit in perverse ways from the status of their parents. The international schools do not always draw the best crowd either. Believe me, i have been there. TH

    234. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:53 am

      kip…I saw that on a post from misfittings.com, it was sandwiched into a board a about 6 days ago…someone claiming to be her friend said their room was broken into and cameras stolen…she also said that one of the guards kept asking them if they wanted help finding the camera and that he had a flashlight to help them search at night…it turns out, supposedly, when the guards were taken in, the camera in question was in their custody…Very strange to me.

    235. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 10:53 am

      What system are you guys talking about? A system that puts out a statement, then retracts it, then changes to the complete opposite statement, then retracts that statement also. Evidently this system just can’t get it’s act together. Some say they aren’t putting out evidence until they actually charge the suspects with something. Why are some official putting out statements at all then? These guys are disorganized and corrupt. You are right, I don’t understand their system, because there system is disorganized and corrupt. I hope they pull it all together soon so Natalee’s parent’s will have some answers. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

    236. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:54 am

      it s just i have nt seen him one damn time yet… father vd sloot must be the father of the year….

    237. chloe2 on June 13th, 2005 10:54 am

      Leo — I don’t think our media invented sensationalistic headlines – the British mastered it long ago.

    238. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 10:54 am

      i have to say that there is a common denominator when it comes to the way alot of americans react to having to respect others ways of doing things….it is a common thread..i see it here in our americna tourists all the time….and its something they should refrain from doing as it really reflects badly on them….
      if you travel to another country you make a choice by doing so..and abiding by their laws is one of those things….you cant pick and choose …same goes for people who enter america…its a mutual respect..and once again…should heighten everyones awarenes to what travelling really means…and some of its implications should something go wrong….unfortunately….

    239. Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:55 am

      Here’s that post—–

      Alright – here’s some scoop: I have a friend who’s babysitter was on the trip to Aruba and this info. comes from her. While on the trip, babysitter’s room was broken into at the Holiday Inn and her and her roomates camera’s were stolen. The day before they left Aruba they were in the hotub at HI w/ a group of students and a sec. guard ‘overheard’ them talking about the incident and that their camera’s were stolen. He offered to help find them and the student’s declined. Kids were back in the hotub that night and sec. guard came back with a flash light and said “are you sure you don’t want help, I have a flashlight.’ kids ignored him and he left. when sec. guard was arrested she immediately recognized him from the hot tub episodes. and guess what – both of cameras were seized from his house during arrest. ps – i am referring to the one sec. guard whose pic. we keep seeing….not sure what his name is. also – she has been interviewed by the fbi ‘like, 1000 times.’

    240. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:55 am

      i also keep going back to the frat house (HI).. that place is not safe… i still think they might be culpable….

    241. Sarah on June 13th, 2005 10:56 am

      A friend who is close to the tourism industry just said that they have had 40% cancellations to Aruba. Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. Also, Fox reported that if they can prove that Natalee was kidnapped, the perp could be extradited to the US.

    242. dontblamethevictim on June 13th, 2005 10:58 am

      I’m sure this has been posed before on here but I had to write it in order to get it off my chest.

      Because tourism is such a big industry there, I think these boys did confess and because of the position of authority of Van Der Sloot’s father and in order to protect their tourism, they are going to cover it up.

      This being said, even if they do have a confession and body, etc. they botched the evidence so there goes the case anyway.

    243. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 10:59 am

      If the security guards worked at another hotel what were they doing hanging out at the HI pool and what did HI do about it? How many guards were on duty at HI? Looks like a real loose operation to me. Did the kids report this?

    244. Rob on June 13th, 2005 10:59 am

      i called the bucuti to see if they had any cancellations and they said no… i have a room booked at the hyatt on jun 25 but i could have saved about 1500 dollars and got a penthouse room at the bucuti… the hyatt room offseason cost $4600.00 for 11 days.. so i was suprised when they said they had no cancellations…

    245. Bill on June 13th, 2005 10:59 am

      lisabobeesa, my wife was born and raised in Jamaica. She’s always trying to get us there on vacation, but I just know she won’t be satisfied with staying near the resorts. She’s gonna want to visit “the old neighborhood” in Kingston :-) From what I see on the consular travel warnings, I think we’d better wait until we can afford to hire private security to escort us. Am I being overly cautious?

      Inidently, we were in Aruba that same week as Natalee, and I never felt unsafe.

    246. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:01 am

      Iquitos—good question, again that is info from a post days ago…but when Kip mentioned about the thefts, it just seemed to make the post a little closer to truth than fiction

    247. bubbalou on June 13th, 2005 11:01 am

      Interesting camera rumor. Lends credence to possible other foul play by the guard. Could also be completely unrelated.

    248. Rob on June 13th, 2005 11:01 am

      the frat house needs closed down until it can be run like a professional business.

    249. Robin on June 13th, 2005 11:03 am

      Aruban officials deserve the negative publicity for covering up for the judges’ son–and now–the hit to their tourism will be far worse. All of the islanders will suffer now due to steep tourism losses.

      Have you ever seen such a poor law enforcement job?

    250. Minnesota Dad on June 13th, 2005 11:03 am

      Leo,

      You can be ashamed to be an American….but perhaps you can answer these questions:

      Why did Aruba LE not question the rich judge’s kid for 10 days…yet they knew from day 1 that he was the last person seen with her?

      Reports indicate that the FBI has not been utilized and have sent several people home. Why is this?

      Why weren’t the clothes of the rich judge’s kid and his buddies immediately confiscated as evidence?

      Why was the rich judge’s kid’s car impounded 10 days after the disappearance of Holloway?

      Why did the Aruban LE trust the rich judge’s kid and his two compadre’s statements and then VERY publicly arrest two stooges who it is very clear have alibis?

      Why did the Holiday Inn camera not pick up the rich judge’s kid dropping off Holloway?

      In the American legal system, those with close financial or personal ties can get preferential treatment. Cover-ups happen all of the time. The Aruban system is no different as evidenced by the allowing of the rich judge’s kid all of the slack that has been given.

      The only way the Holloway family is going to get this resolved is to continue to put intense pressure on the government of Aruba through the use of the media. Yesterday, the Holloways were told to “back off”. If you understand how cover-ups work….backing off allows more time for a case to become stale and forgotten by the public. “In your face” tactics work when uncovering public corruption. The Aruban government has attempted to quietly “get rid of” this case and it is blowing up in their faces. The American people also need to push a Boycott Aruba!!! campaign.

      If you are ashamed of Americans….please move to Aruba!

    251. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 11:05 am

      friend of Mickey John:

      Don’t know Craig, but don’t want to be rude:

      HI CRAIG

    252. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:05 am

      Bill..well kingston is not usually a tourist place..and most of crime happens there but it is all in where you are..not unlike most places in teh world…i feel unsafe in kingston..i try to avoid going..

      Living here is different than touring here..for instance i have a an armed guard at my home….but this is because of my position here..im a big fish in a little pond…and im a single mom…with kids to protect..so i err on the side of caution.

    253. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 11:07 am

      Minnesota Dad – You are right on the money. As I have been saying, BOYCOTT ARUBA!!! This is the only way they will actually implement needed changes. Hit them in the pocketbook.

    254. kip on June 13th, 2005 11:07 am

      We all have different views.As a federal agent I can only say here what
      views myself and a few other agents have seen from scources that are our friends helping out in Aruba.I have done this job for 34 yrs.I always have to look at both sides,and its certainly not my job to judge.Thats up to god and the judges.If some wish to hate,then so be it.Its not the Dutch people,Netherlands,or Arubas fault that what has taken place.But suppose this girl ran away on her own,died of a drug overdose,or was kidnapped and is still alive.This has happend in Aruba and some other Caribbean Islands before.But because her family has a lot of money this is now a major event.Her family members worked for a state senator,hence the FBI was called in to help.Also the Dutch government has a close working lawenforcement with the USA on other types of cases.Suppose this girl took drugs on her own….hmmmm…and used the boys to get some more.Promising them certain gratuities etc.There is a statement by one of her friends before she left C&C that she saw Natalee in the womens room and she looked very spaced out.Suppose Natalee already had a drug problem and hid it well from her parents.Hence Natalee did not want any of her classmates to find out,so she left alone with these boys.

    255. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:07 am

      Leo[NY] -

      Ashamed to be American- Move to Aruba. Sell out –

    256. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 11:09 am

      I second that one Leo -

      America is NOT perfect, but if you are “ashamed” to be “American”

      GET OUT – we are NOT the only country on the planet, go find one that suits you better.

    257. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:09 am

      BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

    258. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:10 am

      the security guard thing is not uncommon….you have to remember folks thse peopel are often being paid slave liek wages….not sure i aruba..a typical unarmed guard makes only 50-60 bucks a 6 day work week….often peopel are not educated to same extent…which also factors in equation…now put these same peopel at a resort with allof us rich tourists…sporting around with all our “stuff”….teh temptation is there naturally…doenst make soemone a killer….again its part of teh dynamic..most toruists dont see it when they are there..they just come to see the beach and soak in the sun…im not okaying this ..just saying that theft in sec gaurds is very common…as is pervy men….visit nay caribbean island….the men are horn dogs…and always on the prowl…haha

    259. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 11:10 am

      This is not about if she ran away or overdosed or got kidnapped. The boycott is about how screwed up the system in Aruba is and how they can’t even get any answers to the family or anyone involved. The Prime Minister of Aruba claims ignorance and that his system doesn’t allow him to be that involved with the process. Give me a break. He know this will hurt their economy, you can bet your tourism dollar he is involved. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

    260. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:12 am

      sorry my typing is awful.i have some fast typing dyslexia ..yikes

    261. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:12 am

      Can anyone speak to the state of Natalee’s room when the found it…Her bags were supposedly packed…but did that include toiletries, was there a change of clothes out. Kip ?

    262. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 11:13 am

      Minnesota,

      I wholeheartedly agree, and deep down I think Arubians would feel ashamed, because it happened in Aruba and this is one of your own. Elements such as Casinos, Late Night partying, Have and have nots, influx of seedy guest workers, (i.e Santo Domingo), ads for escort services, strong political affiliation all this has turned this island up to par with many communities that live this fast life. All the aforementioned create a potential for criminal activity.

    263. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:13 am

      Rob-
      Go to Iraq, voice your opinion there – I hear the judicial system there is much more stringant than aruba.

    264. Bill on June 13th, 2005 11:15 am

      lisabobeesa, Dyslexics untie!

      Thanks for your reply, btw. I’m feeling vindicated, a little :-)

    265. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:16 am

      i think the americans are infiltrating and revamping the Iraqi infrastructure and culture arent they?? last i heard!…how ridiculous of a comment is that?

    266. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 11:16 am

      As my name implies I am a Hater of corrupt and incompetent people. Especially those in important positions that can affect others like the Aruban officials running this huge goat screw of an investigation. Their incompetance and corruption as affected this investigation and the pocketbooks of hard working Arubans. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!

    267. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:18 am

      hahaha BILL untie ..unite…i hear ya!!

    268. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 11:18 am

      We have had several arbuan individuals speak on this post, that have helped us understand some of the things going on there, where places of interest in the serch for Natalee are located as well as translating radio information to US AMERICANS. I think the BOYCOTT ARUBA is showing disrespect to this individuals and should be saved for another time another place, when we have FACTS on exactly what happened to Natalee

    269. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:19 am

      LIsa: I know guards are poorly compensated and may be tempted to make up the difference. This cannot be allowed to happen because they are the ones supposedly keeping order and protecting property. If they become empowered to leverage their authority into private benefit that is very dangerous. Typical juvenile scam, you steal something and then offer to get it back for compensation. Would love to know who had the Allegro contract and who does security at HI. When you have a multi miliion dollar business and a casino you can’t be lax on security. Plus, casinos are full of cameras. HI knows more than they are telling the public. Hopefull the cops have all the tapes locked up. If you have security guards and don’t want to pay them a living wage then you have to watch them like a hawk.

    270. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:20 am

      BOYCOTT ARUBA

    271. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:20 am

      hate propogation under the false guise of high morality..its an epidemic folks!

    272. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 11:20 am

      Lets arrange a letter writing campaign for those who can’t stand in front of the Aruban & Holland embassies, and arrange a mass demonstration in front of each of these for those who can…

      Anyone interested???

    273. kip on June 13th, 2005 11:21 am

      About his poppa the judge.Its our understanding that his father ie the judge.Was serving a probation type of judgeship and did not make it.In fact he has been sent down to a lower court for his training or something to this nature.This has just taken place in the last two weeks.
      Back to these security guards.They did not work for HI they worked for another hotel that was under some kind of remodeling.Two days before Natalee disappeared they lost their jobs at the hotel because of some kind of contractual thing.So at the time of all this they where unemployed.

    274. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:22 am

      AM Aruba has arrived. Late today.

    275. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:22 am

      SHOCKER

    276. Steve on June 13th, 2005 11:23 am

      Here is my take –

      Natalee was singled out and kidnapped for money. The three boys under arrest choose her and transported her to the kidnappers. The Carlos’n Charlie’s bar assisted. Joran Van Der Sloot is guilty as sin and it was his family’s relationships in Justice-crime which has led to this along with Joran’s needs.

      Maybe the US anti-terrorist agency should get involved. The least that should be added is an interrogation and background investigation of all employees at the bar but that might not be politically positive for Aruba! I would also include investigation of all ships in the area the night of Natalee’s disappearance. Dam-it! I would freaking throw a blockage around Aruba and not lift it until my kid was returned or her body found. But that’s just one parents opinion. I pray to God that in his mercy he watch over Natalee Halloway.

    277. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:24 am

      well i can tell u first hand about surveilance cameras ..ive had a few armed robberies at my place…and even the normal petty theft stuff…you would be surprised how surveillance cameras really work and their true effectiveness.. i think the general public have false ideas about how it really operates…..

      and what you say about pay is bang on..but good uck effecting change….most of these islands were built on the backs of teh slave trade,,,and its deeply entrenched….teh rich like to keep it taht way..and once again..your perception is based onstandards you live and experience…something alot of people dont even recognize about themselves…

    278. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:26 am

      the rules cant and dont apply here…you are bringing standards that plug into your equation where you live…they dont plug in here

    279. MiMi on June 13th, 2005 11:26 am

      TOP95 FM (Aruban radio station) reported on Monday that they have received information about the story that the suspect Joran van der Sloot gave to the police. The radio station got this information from the attorney that is representing the suspect Abraham Jones. Jones is being held at the same location as Joran and he has been hearing/getting information from within the institute. According to the attorney ,Jones declared that Joran is convinced that he is being framed. Joran is saying that he did not go to the lighthouse with the group at all. He testified that after he left the club, he caught a ride home with his Surinamese friends, the brothers Kalpoe. At that time Natalee Holloway was in the car. Joran allegedly testified that the Kalpoes dropped him off at his home and drove off with Natalee in car. It was only afterwards (a few days later), around the swimming pool at his house, that the Kalpoes made plans to come out with one version of the events. But now it seems that they are trying to frame Joran. The attorney also told the radio station that his client has been hearing Joran van der Sloot sobbing a lot lately.

    280. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 11:27 am

      33, Minnesota Dad and Brenda-
      I agree, pressure is the only thing these Aruban officials will understand. That is why we must push to BOYCOTT ARUBA. It is not disrespectful to do so. It is disrespectful to botch an investigation that could be a murder/kidnapping. You can’t mean to tell me three “gangsta” boys have been outsmarting police this whole time. Someone has been allowing it to happen or helping them. If they are completely innocent, why are they in custody? Why weren’t they picked up right away? Could it be the Aruban officials were hoping this would just blow over? BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

    281. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:29 am

      Steve–although it sounds far fetched, it’s as good as explanation as we have right now…

      Anyway….we need some forensic evidence instead of all this “testimony”

    282. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:29 am

      BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

      Didn’t VD Boy say ” Something bad happened”

    283. Minnesota Dad on June 13th, 2005 11:29 am

      Understanding Cover-Ups…Part I

      To understand how influence is peddled on cases amongst lawyers and judges — take this recent case regarding Minnesota’s Attorney General.

      His two daughters go into a Chicago Bar and raise hell. Police arrest. One daughter kicks out the window of the squad car. Girl’s tell the cops that their daddy is the MN AG.

      One year later…case goes to trial with the girls potentially getting 1 year in jail for their misconduct. Typically, you would want a jury trial….have your peers decide on your conduct — if you were innocent, of course. Here, the daughters choose to have a bench trial (a single judge rules on the case). At this point…I knew the fix was in.

      The daughters were acquitted despite clear evidence of their conduct/misconduct. Their daddy attended each day of trial with them and worked the courtroom halls. Now, Illinois has a “chit” that they can use for a favor in Minnesota’s courts.

      http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S8742.html?cat=1

      As mentioned, people of influence can easily get their kids out of trouble. This is what the Aruban government has been trying to do for 14 days now!…unless there is immense media pressure. Boycott Aruba!!!!

    284. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:29 am

      it is disrespectful to spew hate about a country based on legitimate mistakes of people who are just not experienced in murder investigations

    285. Compananzi on June 13th, 2005 11:30 am

      Steve,

      That would be the wishful thinking scenario, however with so much media pressure, Vader Sloot probably need to tell the kidnappers to bring her back so that there is a closure on this case. I pray that Ms. Holloway remains resolute and strong. But reality check I do not think there is any nefarious kidnapping in this situation, but I think someone went beserk and took advantage and inflicted harm of a innocent soul. The sad thing is delay tactics are being played, as a internal power struggle is being sowed.

    286. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:30 am

      lisa i have lived overseas most of my life and have supervised guards and seen the compromised seriously. like i say, no mater how much they make, you have to watch them like a hawk and i for one would find it very odd if guards from a neighboring propery, on of off duty, were socializing at my pool with guests. HI is an international brand that trades on it being American. It is supposed to be run on American standards. In Amerca these days security is a high priority.

    287. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 11:30 am

      Steve, sad to say, but I am leaning towards believing your theroy.

    288. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 11:31 am

      An embassy demonstration – in letter writing campaigns, and in mass demonstations by people in front of the buildings – will probably be very, very effective on putting world wide pressure on both the Dutch and Aruban authorities to see this case is properly dealt with.

      At least that is my best guess.

      Aruba has plenty of other resources for money – such as:

      1. the fact that microsoft announced today that they are moving major business there (http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=75590&WT.svl=wire1_3)

      2. a major drug trade exists there (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/01019)

      3. The same political leaders/public officials who receive a government paycheck, are seriously mishandling the case in question here (The murder of Natalee), are also probably involved with listed item #2 or that item would not be in existance in the first place.

      A boycott is a great idea, but public protestations at the embassies by massive crowds protesting – comlete with signs, banners and full attendance of the media – may work much better than trying to convince a bunch of wealthy people to give up their time shares that they have been paying on for the last 20 years, or a bunch of kids that they shouldn’t drink on that island. Neither the time share owners nor a bunch of kids will be easy to convince of anything most likely.

    289. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 11:31 am

      Joran is singing, i wonder how the other 2 guys will sound like??

    290. Juvenal on June 13th, 2005 11:32 am

      lisabobeesa–

      I agree, and I’ve posted, that we Americans can’t expect continental law to work the way US law does.

      But can you see how dealing with it would be infuriating, to people who are used to the US system?

      On top of that, as I also said, there’s been ample evidence of incompetence, and even indifference about this case on the part of the investigators on Aruba.

      There would be something wrong with Americans if they weren’t outraged by all of this!

    291. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 11:34 am

      Lisa-

      You said “it is disrespectful to spew hate about a country based on legitimate mistakes of people who are just not experienced in murder investigations ”

      You mean to tell me it is ok for people in these positions to make legitimate mistakes? Are you kidding me? These are elementary mistakes at best and more likely corruption running rampant through a small island nation. It is stupid for people to continue to support an environment like this by pouring tourism dollars into a flawed/corrupt place. That is not hate, it is logic. BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!

    292. kip on June 13th, 2005 11:35 am

      lisabobeesa,your funny ahahaha and so very right as well.

    293. mojo on June 13th, 2005 11:35 am

      the lawyers of johns and jones have apparently applied for their release

      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050613/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/aruba_missing_teen;_ylt=
      AgRHLlUXkb7RR334pQouaV.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2MTQ3MTFjBHNlYwN0cw–

    294. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:36 am

      HI is an american based company but it employs a local workforce..no getting around that…american standards are hard to attain….but i find your choiceof words interesting…as they really speak to what i am saying…imposed standards dont work in a society that hasnt had american life experiences. Its like asking an apple to be an orange….ill say it once more and then i will zip it..ones perception is ones reality and for an american to think an islander will know how to be american..is simply ludicrous….how many americnas get paid 50 bucks a week..comon…get real

    295. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:36 am

      Hmm, Corruption on an island used as a stop off point for drug trafficking? What would give you that idea?

    296. cjm on June 13th, 2005 11:36 am

      Do we know for sure who the car belonged to? The brothers or Joran.

    297. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 11:37 am

      hater, aruba is apparently not the only hate in your life, you are full of it!

    298. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:38 am

      Except from June 7 AP story. These guys were assigned to a hotel two blocks away?

      Authorities had not ruled out any possibilities, including that Holloway may have drowned, Aruba Attorney General Caren Janssen said. Two divers were among the eight FBI agents helping in the hunt, but it was not immediately clear if they had begun an underwater search.

      The two men in custody were former security guards for a hotel two blocks from the Holiday Inn where Holloway had been staying. Their work contracts had expired the day before she disappeared, a police officer told The Associated Press. A judge was to decide on Wednesday if authorities had sufficient grounds to continue holding them, Janssen said. Police have refused to reveal the charges against them.

      The guards were known to police because they had a habit of going around to hotels trying to pick up women or bum cigarettes, said the officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Police policy prohibits authorities from discussing details of an investigation before they are presented in court.

      The officer said several islanders told police that the men were seen hanging out frequently at different hotels talking to female tourists trying to pick them up in a friendly manner. No complaints had been filed against the men.

      One of the suspects had a brush with the law, but it was not a violent or sexual offense, the officer said.

      Police last week questioned and released three other men — described as “persons of interest” — who told police they took Holloway to a beach and then dropped her off at her hotel the night she vanished.

    299. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 11:38 am

      to cjm: apparently that is another contradicting store, thought it was Joran at first, now not sure.

    300. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:39 am

      but we have rampant corruption in NY too…it normally revolves around drug trafficking and looking the other way

    301. Bill on June 13th, 2005 11:40 am

      Those wondering about hotel security guards on Aruba being a tad less than ideal: This, coming from the country who had convicted felons as TSA screeners – and this, for months after 9-11 no less?

      Come on, lighten up a bit.

    302. Juvenal on June 13th, 2005 11:41 am

      lisabobeesa–

      “$50 a week?”

      That’s funny. I’ve heard that the average salary on Aruba was $32,000 a year, the highest in the entire Carribean. That’s only 2 grand less than the average American salary. This is not a third-world country, and the majority of their people are NOT teetering on the edge of starvation.

      I’m not sure how the question of economics/poverty could possibly pertain to this situation, anyway.

      I’m sure the folks who work at Holiday Inn do a great job, as good as any U.S.-located hotel. The problem is not the people who work there. The problem is, apparently, that nobody ever dropped Natalee off there.

    303. Rob on June 13th, 2005 11:41 am

      i have heard the the car belongs to valentijn , joran brother, but im not 100 percent sure… i think joran is underage to drive..

    304. cjm on June 13th, 2005 11:42 am

      To Donna

      I wish we could find out.

    305. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:43 am

      Joran’s brother is in 9th grade…he drives?

    306. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:43 am

      juvenal..i agree with you..i think the authorities did a very foolish thing byletting those 3 suspects go initially…..that was plain incompetent….i j\guess im just saying its our nature to think “ulterior motive” and think bad things…. paranoia….and this may just nto be the case….so i guess i am just trying to say….lets not jump to conclusions….and try to understand what may really be going on here….i
      the wya i see it..the boys were let go becuase of who they were….and the officials are accountable…they made a dreadful mistake….now they are trying to backpedal and make it right…without losing face or getting people mad…and its not working..i think we are creating more “ulterior motives ” than what was there

    307. Carola in Lebanon Ohio on June 13th, 2005 11:44 am

      emotional!! not realistic!! chauvenistisch!! U.S. Americans!! It sees to that in spite of debt is the Americans proved their judgement already ready have. They are there entirely of convinced that there are Cover-Up to pace love the zoontje the judge outside shot, which is total nonsense natural. The fact is that the research does not go such as them that would gladly have seen. And now Aruba must be boycotted!! Hou alsjeblieft on with that nonsense says, the Americans come there by one’s own free will and as long as it goes there well the all oke are but the moment it does not go such as they to want must there directly boycotted become, what a people says!! pays attention, however, that when a dader is found and under the Dutch right is condemned, the Americans opnieuwmet their large basin vooraan stands complain!! it can clear be that what has happened terrible is and under absolutely no condition well talk is, but someone is just guilty until debt is proved.

    308. Sl on June 13th, 2005 11:45 am

      -
      -
      -
      -
      -

      WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE to have TWO THREADS for discussion?

      ONE- for HOLLOWAY NEWS, suppostion-etc
      TWO- for other discussion, (IE tourism, etc)

      It is tedious to wade through all the chatter to find info, such as WHOSE car is the Honda?

      Or, make the threads shorter.. 700+ comments, many trivial.

      -
      -
      -
      -
      -
      thx

    309. *** on June 13th, 2005 11:45 am

      Is it possible…….that the story coming from the guard Jones’ attorney about Van Der Sloot’s latest “version” of not being involved and pinning it on the surinamese brothers instead…….is just an attempt to infuriate the surinamese brothers into confessing the “real story”? Surely once the brothers hear the rumors that VDS is pinning it on them, they will no longer remain loyal to him and will come clean? Is it possible? Just a thought……

    310. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:45 am

      Lisa: I am not about imposing cultural standards but rather ethical ones. where do you draw the line. Say you have a guard that flirts. then some guest is raped. do you tolerate flirting? Say you have an airport baggage inspector who lets people get on planes uninspected for a tip. You have to be alert to these personal activities and be harsh with those who don’t understand where their bread is buttered even if it is margerine. If we have learned anything from this it is that security is important, tolerance is dangerous. Could get somebody killed and in this case may have. It all started at the HI casino if we are to believe the accepted story when underage Joran hit up Natalee at a poker table.

    311. kip on June 13th, 2005 11:45 am

      I have two versions of her clothing thing.One was that her clothing was in the hotel room with passport and suitcases where locked tight.Second story was her clothing was in her mom’s room.I did not get this information here on the net this is all on the up and up.Also we belive from the mileage on the kids car that the 3 boys and Natalee never went to this lighthouse or beach.They rode around for quite awhile,like 45 minutes or so,perhaps longer I am being told.

    312. cjm on June 13th, 2005 11:46 am

      I thought Valentijn was younger than Joran. They both lied about their ages on their websites. Joran wrote he was 21 and Valentijn wrote he was 19.

    313. Juvenal on June 13th, 2005 11:46 am

      “the wya i see it..the boys were let go becuase of who they were”

      Ok. If that’s true, is that not what you’d call an “ulterior motive?”

    314. I'm a Hater on June 13th, 2005 11:47 am

      Donna-
      You are right, I hate incompetance and corruption and there is alot of it in the world. This is just one case. In this case their incompetance and corruption is causing a case to go unsolved. Sure you can blame the parents for letting her go, the chaperones for not doing whatever they were supposed to, you can blame Natalee for leaving with three stranges, but the legal system is supposed to find out what happened and punish the guilty. Individuals made choices in this situation and it cost them dearly. What we ask our government to do is to enforce our laws. Evidently Arubans are slow to enforce their laws and it may result in this case going unsolved. So yes Donna, I do have some hate in me, but I can do something to influence change and that is to BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!

    315. Sl on June 13th, 2005 11:47 am

      .
      .
      .
      RE: the car. Valentjin (the brother) was even younger than he. (Sloot)

      I have read the car belonged to the older of the 2 bros..

      .
      .

    316. 33 on June 13th, 2005 11:47 am

      I wonder if Joran will change his saying on his personal page:

      Don’t hate the player, hate the game” He’s playing a good game now…..

    317. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:48 am

      the HI thing was brought up in direct reference to the security guards stealing…sheesh…i never pretended to know aruba Juv..just making some island parellels that i have noticed..i realize they are not third world…

    318. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:49 am

      I think it is well established that the car belonged to the surinamese brothers. I undesrstand Natalees mother moved into the room she was in. TH

    319. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:49 am

      Kip—isn’t it strange to think that a 18 yr old girl would have EVERYTHING packed since she was planning on coming back…Certainly here toiletries wouldn’t have been packed yet and she most likely would not have worn the clothes home that she had on the night before.

    320. Minnesota girl on June 13th, 2005 11:50 am

      I find it very weird that none of the people who went on the trip know more information
      than they are telling. There has to be someone she confided in while on vacation. I am suspicous that maybe these friends have all clammed up and are in mass denial. There was an incident at my school involving a party that an individual got severely injured at and no one that was there talked as to what really occurred. He was obviously beaten up and left in a bath tub but yet no one saw anything. Yeah right! I personally believe some of these kids did some drugs or drank too much while down there and that she overdosed and these 3 boys got scared and possibly some others, and they did something to her body. Her friends were with her in a bar- they had to have noticed what drugs,etc. she was doing and have to have more info. than they are telling.

    321. Rob on June 13th, 2005 11:52 am

      even the age and who is older seems to be in question.. not suprising

    322. bubbalou on June 13th, 2005 11:52 am

      I don’t think the state of the luggage has really been described thoroughly. It was just generalized as being “packed”.

    323. Juvenal on June 13th, 2005 11:52 am

      Well, maybe, Minnesotagirl, but we also know that FBI asked them to keep quiet about the case…maybe her family as well.

    324. Sl on June 13th, 2005 11:52 am

      .
      .
      RE: the clothing

      Natalee’s clothing *is* in her mom’s room at the HI because the mother is staying in Ntalee’s former room.

      I have not heard much from Natalee’s biological father, certainly nothing since the initial incident. Also, not one word from Dloot’s father.

      Sloot’s school (International School of Aruba) has made their wesite inaccesible to the public. Natalee’s school (Mountain Brook HS) has taken down the link to the faculty. I suppose so the public does not have access to the coaches’ (chaperones) names.

      This is certainly a case of caution about what one uploads on the web. I have always disagreed w/ *my* workplace making personal info about me available on their website.

      It should also serve as a lesson to today’s youth about piictures, blogs, musical tastes, etc.. that they (kids) publish on the web.
      .
      .
      .

    325. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:53 am

      all i am saying is when you empower security guards you have to watch them like a hawk to make sue they don’t abuse their trust. failure to do so can have dire consequences wherever. You have to set standards, train on them, and enforce them.

    326. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:54 am

      no its not…its the way people look at things ..when living in a little pond with big fish…

      when i say ulterior….i say that there is a conspiracy at higher levels to keep Joran out of trouble….after all that has happened..i doubt that this is what is happening..i think they are more protecting themselves for the initial mistake..saving face

      listen im not defending howthings were handled….i am with you on that..i guess i am trying to understand it…rationally

      I hope natalees family continues ot put pressure..i think it is their only hope of finding answers from an embarrassed nation

    327. Rob on June 13th, 2005 11:54 am

      i read that the car belonded to an older bro… i thought it stated that his name was vanetijn… apparently there is a yet unidentified bro.. wonder is joran is covering for him?

    328. kip on June 13th, 2005 11:54 am

      You all please do not condemn my fellow Americans for there views here.
      This is why we as Americans live in a free society.We have freedoms unheard of in other countrys.Our society makes many eastern countrys despise the USA.But you know what …..theres none better to call home.
      The Geraldo guy is a joke.Fox probably sent him down to Aruba to cause mayhem and unrest hes a real piece of work.Long ago he had his own TV show and during one show a guy broke his nose because of his outspoken ways hahahaha..Right on national prime time tv.Then in Iraq he was out with a American patrol and again on national television he drew a map of the patrols location in the sand while the camera was broadcasting shesssssh.But then again it could be worse they may have sent Bill O’Riley
      hahahahaha

    329. bubbalou on June 13th, 2005 11:55 am

      Anyone of them could have done something or it could have been an accident. Either way, they all chose to cover it up. It doesn’t seem likely that they would make an effort to cover up an accident unless there was other foul play.

    330. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 11:55 am

      we had one of the guys on the trip on here last night for quite awhile and he had some interesting insights.

    331. Rob on June 13th, 2005 11:55 am

      this things got more twists……

    332. localyokal on June 13th, 2005 11:56 am

      iquitos can you recap what he said?

    333. Ben on June 13th, 2005 11:56 am

      where are the posts from the guy on the trip?

    334. Rob on June 13th, 2005 11:56 am

      kip… i think everyone here already apologized for geraldo b-4 he arrived…

    335. lisabobeesa on June 13th, 2005 11:57 am

      you are so right iquitos…and most often hotels have several layers of protection….meaning two or three different security companies plus own internal security…especially in casinos..to do just that…and prevent collusion

    336. cjm on June 13th, 2005 11:58 am

      On another board, someone from Aruba posted that the car belongs to Depak Kalpoe, the older of the two brothers.

    337. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 11:58 am

      a friend of natalees that was with her on the trip posted in here over the weekend, and said, they had a meeting that afternoon, as were told to have everything packed up and ready to before they went out that night, since they were leaving so early the next morning

    338. MissyRose on June 13th, 2005 11:59 am

      I thought Van der Sloot only had a younger brother. I was on his website yesterday.

    339. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:00 pm

      the authories need to have a press conf. and state the actual known facts

    340. Robert J. on June 13th, 2005 12:00 pm

      >It was only afterwards (a few days later), around his swimming pool, that the Kalpoes >made plans to come out with one version of the events. But now it seems that they >are trying to frame Joran. The attorney also told the radio station that his client has >been hearing Joran van der Sloot sobbing a lot lately.

      Joran’s dad (attorney; judge in training) needs to be arrested as apparent accessory-after-the-fact (??). If they sat around planning out “one version of the events” — undoubtedly, Joran’s dad was most likely there too..

    341. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 12:00 pm

      missy rose, what is the name of his website?

    342. cjm on June 13th, 2005 12:01 pm
    343. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:02 pm

      one fact that the public might be able to put toghter could actaully solve this.. ever heard of a show called america s most wanted? they always ask for the public to help… not in this case for some reason

    344. MissyRose on June 13th, 2005 12:02 pm

      There it is.

    345. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 12:03 pm

      OK….news update….
      http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005

      If the two brothers dropped on Van Der Sloot, and kept car and girl….according to lawyer for Jones…then Van Der Sloot is pointing finger at the brothers

      If the brothers AND Van Der Sloot all were in car with her….then brothers are pointing finger of suspicion at Van Der Sloot….

      Perhaps – if THIS is not “un- reported” – may in fact be an unraveling….

      ALso.. What is the two from Holland there doing – supposedly at this time a search w/0 dogs of some area…

      Anyone from Aruba out there who can say?

    346. barbara on June 13th, 2005 12:04 pm

      How ridiculous – to boycott a country where folks were given 1 afternoon off to do a massive search of Natalee…

      Do you also want to boycott every State in the US where children disappeared without a trace? It must mean that justice did not work in.. gosh… there is not a single US State that escapes the list of depraved psychos you have, is there? You constantly have children raped and violently murdered, bodies that never show up, cases of skeletons found in folks’ backyards… Maybe you should close your own borders and not anyone leave the U.S.

      I have no doubts that the Dutch government is doing everything they can and I hope that Natalee is found although unfortunately each day that goes by hope of finding her alive decreases. And yes, I think the Dutch guy did it – and have trust that all will be known soon.

      Now excuse me while I start my boycott to the US becasue of the many murders committed daily and that are not resolved. I won’t go there for holidays anymore…

    347. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 12:04 pm

      This is the story I have on the car from Riehl’s Worls.

      The father of the two brother is not Naresh Kalpoe and he has nothing to do with Air Suriname, he has a carrental on the island. The confiscated car is not from Joran van der Sloot, nor from his family. It is from Deepak Kalpoe. He is 21 years old. Thank you!

      Posted by: Aruban | June 12, 2005 08:54 PM

    348. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:05 pm

      i heard they are polygrapgh guys from holland… but who knows…

    349. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:06 pm

      so if the car is deepak s maybe vd sloot is innocent

    350. marie from maine on June 13th, 2005 12:07 pm

      yeah right, innocent .funny.

    351. just another guy on June 13th, 2005 12:08 pm

      wow, tides have turned… i guess the 21 yr old wants a piece of action after he dropped of Joran.

    352. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:09 pm

      i think we need to see a real time line of the evening in question.. stating right after they said they dropped her off…

    353. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 12:09 pm

      The guy said that Natalee was a nice and responsible person and that they were at the pool Sunday night and never saw Natalie show up. I think his posts are in 8 and 9.. TH

    354. Brenda on June 13th, 2005 12:09 pm

      anyone have a time line they know is in fact correct????

    355. donna in south alabama on June 13th, 2005 12:10 pm

      seems that story is now changing too Rob……..

    356. cjm on June 13th, 2005 12:10 pm

      Rob

      I don’t think Joran is innocent. I think the cops put out the fake confession stories over the weekend to get the three of them to turn on eachother. I think Joran is doing that now by saying he was dropped off first. (if this story is true) Maybe they are all talking and turning against eachother.

    357. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:11 pm

      let s see. they claim they drop her off at what 2 am?

    358. Tom on June 13th, 2005 12:12 pm

      Comments are moving to

      http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1131

      in 5 minutes and this post will be then closed to comments.

    359. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:12 pm

      why would joran be dropped off first ,that make absolutely no sense…i still dont believe that…

    360. I LOVE ARUBA on June 13th, 2005 12:12 pm

      Hi, lisabobeesa….. Aruba is a tiny island but it is not of the third world, you should come on vacation, if you like to go to the beach, we have the most beautifull white sandy beaches and also we are friendly people, we speak 4 languages…. I’M SO PROUD TO BE AN ARUBIAN, just visit http://www.aruba.com and you can see more about this beautiful island.

      http://www.aruba.com

    361. Ben on June 13th, 2005 12:13 pm

      remember, joran’s supposed story of the two guys turning on him is coming from the guard in the jail cell near him…perhaps reliable, perhaps not

    362. Rob on June 13th, 2005 12:14 pm

      that s why i said that there needs to be a press conf to get out the actual known facts…

    363. Cyber_Object on June 13th, 2005 12:14 pm

      Joran’s younger brother.

      http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=4vLH9oh-aTiTOaJk

      If this is his brother it is his older brother not younger

    364. iquitos on June 13th, 2005 12:15 pm

      TOM: where can one findlast night’s posts?

    365. cjm on June 13th, 2005 12:15 pm

      They lied about their ages. Joran’s site says he is 21.

    366. 33 on June 13th, 2005 12:15 pm

      barbara-
      Your comments are not warrented- How many states in the US would try to cover up a kidnapping/missing child?? One day off for everyone to look? Big Flippin deal- Whats one day?

    367. Tom on June 13th, 2005 12:16 pm

      Comments have moved to

      http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1131

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