A Pre Disappearance Fight?

 

The Birmingham News is reporting that Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and some of his friends almost got into a fight with some travel companions of Natalee Holloway.

One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway’s friends said Thursday.

Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates who went to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

“There was almost a fight between my friend and him,” said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. “I had to break them up. That’s when I got a good look at them.”

Reynolds said he saw the suspects hanging out at the Holiday Inn where the Mountain Brook High School graduates stayed in Oranjestad. When Holloway went missing, Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects.

“That was the first people who came to mind,” said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends.

The tale is growing even more complicated.

Hat Tip Lagosta



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  • Comments

    45 Responses to “A Pre Disappearance Fight?”

    1. Jim Hoft on June 10th, 2005 7:19 pm

      Wow! You guys are doing a terrific job with this story!

    2. Rick on June 10th, 2005 8:04 pm

      There was a comment made in passing on Greta Van Sustern’s program yesterday by a reporter for DIARIO, said to be Aruba’s largest newspaper, which I have not seen ANY comment on, anywhere, yet my eyebrows raised when I heard it.

      The reporter said that he has heard from sources that Joran was said to be dealing with “anger management issues” before the Natalie saga began…

      And then I saw the photo of him with a leather belt around the neck of one of his friends… and flashed back to ROBERT CHAMBERS. Seems like this kid, with his photos of women he met all over his now-removed MSN and TICKLE websites, his love of misogynistic songs by 50 Cent, underage drinking and partying – seems entirely like a Robert Chambers type to me… also assuming the reporter is correct, and I cant imagine him making that comment on international TV if there was no corroboration…

      In any case, the DIARIO reporter did say that Joran was dealing with “anger management issues’ – which suggests to me that he has been involved in multiple aggressive situations where he lost control and underwent or was undergoing some sort of treatment or counseling…

      Add to that the report from one of Natalie’s fellow students saying that he broke up a fight between Joran and Natalie’s companions and it’s certainly not hard to believe that Joran offed her…

    3. Tom on June 10th, 2005 9:14 pm

      Wow

      Rick, I was living in New York when Robert Chambers was in the news. They both had that same look in there eyes, don’t they.

      I do not know what really happenned, but that is an interesting perspective.

    4. Rick on June 10th, 2005 9:20 pm

      Hi Tom –

      Yeah, I dont know if you visited Joran’s websites, but his favorite songs are all women-degrading rap tunes, like “Candy Store” which is about getting a woman to perform oral sex and degrading her in the process… All his photos are posed with attractive women and he’s flashing money, has a leather belt around some other shirtless kid’s neck, others are bar scenes where he and his friends are flashing make-believe gang signs, pretending to be American gangsta boys… In all, he seems like a spoiled, undisciplined kid, whose permissive parents allow him to frequent casinos and bars, give him a pricey car – all the while knowing he’s legally underage for gambling and drinking. And this is the son of a judge..

      So, I do see some parallels, and Joran certainly is a creepy kid…

      Add to that the comment from the reporter that Joran is “dealing with anger management issues” and the story of the fight or near-fight Joran was involved in with Natalee’s classmates, and it certainly seems more than plausible that the kid responded violently when rejected… I get the impression that if he was rejected by Natalee in front of his two friends, he wouldn’t respond like a gentleman, especially after midnight, after having been drinking, and knowing that Natalee would be leaving the island in a few hours….

      Like you, neither I nor anyone here knows what happens, but if I were a betting man, I’d put my money on Joran. Something is very wrong with him…

    5. K in TX on June 10th, 2005 9:43 pm

      THANK YOU! I completely agree with you. This kid looks like a total creep. I saw all those pictures of him, and he and his “posse” all look like hoodlums, for lack of a better term.

      Interesting turn of events. Thanks for the information.

    6. Lewis Saintsing on June 10th, 2005 10:02 pm

      Underage drinking on the Island of Aruba probably lead to Natalee being so drunk she could hardly walk. Being drunk leads to the sexual intercourse part you’ve been hearing about the past few days. No responsible parent would send their daughter out of country. The only reason I can see for the group deciding to go there was for underage drinking and getting wild. Now lots of people are suffering. 147 kids and only 7 chaperons? Teachers have better class ratios, and their kids are all within 4 walls and 1 door. By the way, how old were the chaperons?

    7. Lewis Saintsing on June 10th, 2005 10:11 pm

      Too, if there was ‘almost’ a fight between Reynolds and Sloot, then why did Natalee forsake her friends and go off with ‘three unknown’ men? Sounds awfully strange. How could she have been kidnapped in front of all of her classmates? I don’t know what happen after she left with them, but drinking does lead to sex. They should have stayed within the US borders. Maybe they couldn’t have drank so much, but everybody would probably be safe.

    8. K in TX on June 10th, 2005 10:15 pm

      And, honestly, how do you know that she wasn’t drugged?

    9. Rick on June 10th, 2005 10:41 pm

      One of her classmates said that she wasn’t out of control at Carlos and Charlies, and waved goodbye to her as she left with the three guys. She wasn’t falling down drunk..

      But if she was falling-down-drunk as Joran’s friends have supposedly claimed, she would have had to become that way AFTER leaving the bar- so yes, her being drugged is certainly a possibility.

      My theory is this:

      Joran took her to the beach with the two friends in the front seat, as reported in the media today, referencing the two friends’ statements. Natalee refused his advances after awhile, and he became angry.

      As I said earlier, the DIARIO reporter claimed that Joran was “dealing with anger management issues” and he was humiliated in front of his two friends – two friends who are part of his little world, in which he takes the role of ‘playa’ and gambling, drinking, womanizer… (see all the photos on his TICKLE and MSN websites)….

      The alcohol, consumed in large quantities at Carlos and Charlies fuels his rage and he chokes Natalee into submission, knowing that she’s leaving the island in a few hours and won’t stick around to press charges… He and his friends have their way with her, and either accidentally or intentionally choke her to death.. And then dispose of the body into the ocean, burning the clothes…

      They return home, and agree to tell authorities that they had some light contact at the beach, returned her to the HI, where she was drunk and uncooperative, and watched her walk toward the hotel where a security guard approached her. It would be a security guard from the festival, where they knew they’d be leaving that morning…

      Other scenarios don’t make as much sense, or are contradicted by the evidence…

      In support of this theory:

      - The statement of one of Natalee’s friends at the bar
      - The statements of the two teens with Joran and Natalee
      - THe lack of video to corroborate their story when there would have been had they been telling the truth
      - The character of Joran, as indicated by his websites, photos, and comment from the DIARIO newspaper and the near-fight he was involved in with Natalee’s friends
      - The lack of corroboration from the HI security guard or front desk

      So, I think given the current info as we know it, all fingers point to Joran unless something new is revealed…

    10. Rick on June 10th, 2005 10:46 pm

      One of her classmates said that she wasn’t out of control at Carlos and Charlies, and waved goodbye to her as she left with the three guys. She wasn’t falling down drunk..

      But if she was falling-down-drunk as Joran’s friends have supposedly claimed, she would have had to become that way AFTER leaving the bar- so yes, her being drugged is certainly a possibility.

      My theory is this:

      Joran took her to the beach with the two friends in the front seat, as reported in the media today, referencing the two friends’ statements. Natalee refused his advances after awhile, and he became angry.

      As I said earlier, the DIARIO reporter claimed that Joran was “dealing with anger management issues” and he was humiliated in front of his two friends – two friends who are part of his little world, in which he takes the role of ‘playa’ and gambling, drinking, womanizer… (see all the photos on his TICKLE and MSN websites)….

      The alcohol, consumed in large quantities at Carlos and Charlies fuels his rage and he chokes Natalee into submission, knowing that she’s leaving the island in a few hours and won’t stick around to press charges… He and his friends have their way with her, and either accidentally or intentionally choke her to death.. And then dispose of the body into the ocean, burning the clothes…

      They return home, and agree to tell authorities that they had some light contact at the beach, returned her to the HI, where she was drunk and uncooperative, and watched her walk toward the hotel where a security guard approached her. It would be a security guard from the festival, where they knew they’d be leaving that morning…

      Other scenarios don’t make as much sense, or are contradicted by the evidence…

      In support of this theory:

      - The statement of one of Natalee’s friends at the bar
      - The statements of the two teens with Joran and Natalee
      - THe lack of video to corroborate their story when there would have been had they been telling the truth
      - The character of Joran, as indicated by his websites, photos, and comment from the DIARIO newspaper and the near-fight he was involved in with Natalee’s friends
      - The lack of corroboration from the HI security guard or front desk

      So, I think given the current info as we know it, all fingers point to Joran unless something new is revealed…

    11. Rick on June 11th, 2005 12:26 am

      According to news reports one of the 3 teens, presumably Joran, has confessed.

    12. OpenIntro on June 11th, 2005 1:39 am

      I love how so many of you “see it in their eyes” and think from a few website pictures “they look like hoodlums”….lol….such bs….

    13. Michael on June 11th, 2005 12:29 pm

      Did anyone else notice that, in the Fox news photo, Joran has that strange “I don’t give a S–t” look that Scott Peterson had during his trial?

    14. Elaine on June 12th, 2005 2:37 am

      Did anyone else notice that, in the Fox news photo, Joran has that strange “I don’t give a S—t” look that Scott Peterson had during his trial?

      Yes, i noticed that RIGHT AWAY….. and in response to >>> I love how so many of you “see it in their eyes” and think from a few website pictures “they look like hoodlums”….lol….such bs….
      I dont think its BS at all, i agree, sometimes eyes DO tell us a lot : ) Mark my word, this guy, Joran, is the one they want !!!

    15. Mikkel on June 12th, 2005 11:01 pm

      Natalee was not drinking underage: the drinking age in aruba is 16!!! Also, Joran is not a creep; i met him in aruba and he was really friendly and respectful.

    16. Mikkel on June 12th, 2005 11:02 pm

      Natalee was not drinking underage: the drinking age in aruba is 16!!! Also, Joran is not a creep; i met him in aruba and he was really friendly and respectful and he is also an honors student.

    17. Cheryl Lamb on June 13th, 2005 12:12 am

      Were the rules so lax on this trip that it was considered okay for her friends and fellow students to let her get into a car with 3 men especially after drinking? Even if she were sober, I would think that the students were told not to let each other go off with strangers. I don’t have kids – but am I completely out of line here?

    18. Christy Hansen on June 13th, 2005 12:50 am

      I told my friend yesterday that alcohol makes one lower their inhibitions. Unfortunately Natalee let her guard down, in spite of the fact she was an honors student. I hope they find her alive, but I doubt they will. If she is gone, I know that God is watching over her and taking good care of her. I hope the perpetrators get what they’ve got coming to them.

    19. VinCe from Holland on June 13th, 2005 3:53 am

      Pfff you guys who judge people on their looks or the music they listen to, really make me tired. If you want to judge someone start in your own country first, preferably with that stupid president of yours who killed 100 of thousands allready! Joran is innocent untill proven guilty!

    20. Mikkel on June 13th, 2005 11:09 am

      awsome comment vince

    21. JusticeforAll on June 13th, 2005 3:05 pm

      Not sure how innocent he is, considering the first comments they made about dropping her off at the hotel didn’t pan out. The video showed no sign of them dropping her off where they told the authorities they did…If they were innocent then they certainly had no reason to lie about that……..Unless of course you are in Holland where the truth doesn’t matter. As far as Bush it isn’t him killing anybody its the idiots who are planting the roadside bombs and the soldiers from the many countries who are tried to wipe out these radical terrorist.

    22. Jimmy on June 13th, 2005 3:41 pm

      I want to know why Natalee’s friends let her leave with these guys alone. If they were any kind of friend to her they would have at least went with her. I am surprised that they chose Aruba for their graduation celebration. Aruba is a beatiful country but not for teenagers looking for a party.

      Vince from Holland is probably buddies with Joren. I hope that Aruba is boycotted by many people.

      Everyone should know how this story is going to end. The rich kid gets off free again. Instead of people disciplining this kid he will probably get looked up to instead.

    23. KTea on June 14th, 2005 12:42 am

      Just curious: Have any of you young people now realized how important it is to have ACTIVE chaperones and rules that MUST be obeyed for you safety? I usually hear teenagers gripe about such things. Does this awful event change any teenager’s perspective? Are you really sure that you have the maturity to handle things the way most teenagers THINK they have? In my experience, many teens are extremely harsh on the misbehavior of other teens they don’t know, but are way too willing to relax rules for themselves and their friends. I can only hope that Natalee has saved some of you from unwise behavior.
      Also: Girls should not allow their best friends to leave with strangers, especially drunk. Why didn’t anyone of her group try to stop her instead of waving goodbye to her? Why didn’t one of them alert a chaperone? How can chaperones NOT do a bed check and be able to fall asleep easily in a foreign place? I chaperoned teens to Australia and did not hesitate to wake them up each night and take a roll call. When it was over, I realized that I could never undertake such a venture again. I had no fun -
      the responsibility was horrendous even though the kids were compliant and WONDERFUL.

    24. permission on June 14th, 2005 11:01 am

      stop assuming that the Caribbean is a destination that is unsafe …. kids go missing everyday within the US borders …. going on vacation to a strange country is the same as someone from Oklahoma going to Washington DC on vacation… bad things happen everywhere not just outside the US borders

    25. kacoo on June 14th, 2005 11:16 am

      I have family that goes to Mountain Brook H.S. There were a couple of alternative trips for graduation. This was recognized as a “drinking trip” by the kids and the kids who went were the partiers. Reportedly, the parents of these kids are the same parents who provide alcohol for their kids at parties because they would rather they drink at home, etc.

      It was a tip-off when her family stated, “…she’s not MUCH of a partier” (my caps). And when it was reported that they were at Carlos and Charley’s “Restaurant and Bar” – no one goes there to eat, they go to drink.

      Chaperones – I agree, where were they? Althoug this was not a school sanctioned trip, there were teachers there as chaperones. I suspect they will soon be handing out resumes. There was one early report that there were 24 adults, 7 who were chaperones. Who were the others?

      At minimum, I would expect there to be a curfew and a bedcheck. Why did no one notice until time to fly out the next morning, that there was a student missing?

    26. joe on June 14th, 2005 11:39 am

      Hey I just have a message for all of you that are saying comments like george bush is dumb. He’s killed 100s of thousands of people. Well I got news for you. When your country is a target of world terrorist its time for the most powerful and prosperous country on earth to defend its self!!!! When you have had 2 massive planes driven into your city come talk to me!!! Joran is innocent until proven guilty but and I say but if your little police force can’t even tell ketchup from blood were all in trouble. The arubian police are a absolute joke!!! Your trying to tell me that kid isn’t getting special treatment. Whatever!! Oh yeh arubians or what ever your called don’t forget how you get most of your food and imports can you say america!! Haha

    27. joe on June 14th, 2005 11:49 am

      If those 2 kids were in the united states those 2 kids would already have confessed. They would have had there balls strung up on the wall scared crapless from our interrogation.!!!! The arubian goverment is a joke and aurba is a joke. Every time I look on the news its somethiing different. This would not be happening in the united states. Those kids know what happend and I will bet 1 or all them trid to rape that girl then killed her. I hope they give all 3 of them the death penalty!! But I bet in aruba they can’t even get that right!!!

    28. joe on June 14th, 2005 3:13 pm

      My god magnum pi is better than the arubians!!! This is pathetic

    29. hello on June 14th, 2005 3:17 pm

      Arubians what the hell they couldn’t find a mc donalds in new york city. Why don’t they just let the fbi take over. Were professionals not them.

    30. Dave on June 14th, 2005 5:45 pm

      Joe I agree as long as the Arubian KeyStone Cops are on the case, they may never solve this.
      And Jaron is as innocent as O.J Simpson. And even when Jeron is convicted of first degree murder he will be out of the Danish penal system in a few years. I think the max they give murders is like 10 years so he may only do 6 months. To bad they can’t have his trial in Texas.

    31. I agree with jow on June 14th, 2005 8:36 pm

      Dave I am in disguist with this investigation. This girl needs to be found now. This joran is a real piece of work. I read tonight this kid recorded a porn tape and sold it on the island!! I tell you what that little punk if he was in america right now would be scrared s$$$less. We know how to handle young punks like this. Ill take bets this kid raped and killed her. Can we say special treatment for this kid because of daddy. Not here not ever!!!! I say when we find out what happend send him to los angeles pelican bay.

    32. joe is right on June 14th, 2005 8:38 pm

      I agree with joe send him to the unites states.

    33. Mike D on June 15th, 2005 4:50 pm

      Anyone have the site info to this Joran loser? Pathetic dutch…..

    34. usa rules I agree with joe on June 15th, 2005 8:12 pm

      No I don’t have a web site on joran if any one does e mail me at pagel280@tmail.com I agree withjoes comments.

    35. Daniel on June 15th, 2005 9:49 pm

      Interesting to read all of these remarks. For those criticizing President Bush over Iraq, that has absolutely no relevance to the subject matter here. Find some other way to vent you hostility.

      What is really frightening is that the Police in Aruba went out and arrested two black men who were fingered by the three other people who know what happened to Natalee. This gave the brothers, and Joran, time to manipulate the evidence.

      Let’s face it: Joran is just a kid. He’s fabricated a story that contradicts what the other two have said. Joran is sitting in prison because that is where he deserves to be.

      I don’t see this situation as hopeless, at least in terms of prosecution. AS I said, it is pathetic the Aruban Police went off on a wild goose chase based on a story fabricated by the three people integral to this crime.

      I don’t think the brothers from Suriname relish the thought of spending years in jail. In time, they;ll cave in.

    36. alyse on June 18th, 2005 2:53 am

      I think it is amazing she went off with strangers or that her friends let her – a (small) girl go off with 3 guys she met the day before – even if they were all drinking.
      I am amazed they didn’t pick up the guys who last were seen with her immediately but believed THEIR story that it was some “black” guard who assisted her as she tripped out of the vehicle that amazingly escaped the video camera (some say camera broken). I am amazed the two stupid brother “friends” didn’t tell the truth immediately about their “friend” being dropped off with her – if that is the truth – & its good theres another possible lead with this new arrest of the Tattoo DJ guy, but his boss on the boat looked kindof shifty? in the msn video. Maybe the tattoo is involved in a prostitute trade – who would admit it anyway? I know here in the US of many cases of payoff in court and of judges and attorneys arrested for taking payoffs so when families with big money and power (judge) are involved, it is hard to see justice.
      Keep on keeping on, ya’ll rock.
      Alyse

    37. american bob on June 20th, 2005 1:47 am

      there are very few facts in this case.an american is missing.there are suspects.there is nothing to talk about save what we see on tv.tv is a weapon of propaganda.bush is a moron.america is broke and insolvent.we have the bomb.we love to kill.illumine the illuminati.

    38. american bob on June 20th, 2005 1:48 am

      there are very few facts in this case.an american is missing.there are suspects.there is nothing to talk about save what we see on tv.tv is a weapon of propaganda.bush is a moron.america is broke and insolvent.we have the bomb.we love to invade and kill.illumine the illuminati.

    39. JusticeforAll on June 20th, 2005 12:23 pm

      american bob, I have 10 words for you other than quit pretending to be an american.

      “Turn in your green card and go back to Iraq”

    40. joe on June 20th, 2005 10:12 pm

      Hey american bob you can tell your from some where other then the united states you a hole. Get a life. Your not a american. Be careful what you wish for there. We are trying to fix the world not destroy it with people like u. Please this is about a girl not america. The fact ahe is an american is nothing but a copout for the rest of the world to come down on the usa for other thing. Lets keep i n mind natalie

    41. joe on June 20th, 2005 10:13 pm

      Hey american bob you can tell your from some where other then the united states you a hole. Get a life. Your not a american. Be careful what you wish for there. We are trying to fix the world not destroy it with people like u. Please this is about a girl not america. The fact ahe is an american is nothing but a copout for the rest of the world to come down on the usa for other things. Lets keep i n mind natalie

    42. american bob on June 21st, 2005 1:42 am

      of course i am not a true american, i am not like you.i am trying to expose your anger and arrogance to you.you do not speak for me.the relevance comes from people attacking aruba . like we live in utopia over here. As jefferson said:
      ‘ if there is one thing that america should never involve herself with, it is conquest.” we all can learn from him he was illumined. our present ONE is not.and sure does not pretend to be. we are above all and always planetary citizens.you are trying to destroy aruba’s reputation. you are destroying irak.you have your army all over the world. out of chaos you promise peace.nonsense.hate is not love. war is not the definition of help .your nwo W HAS threathened THE WORLD.you are with us or against us. pure hegemonic fascism.but that is NOT america speaking .that is not OUR VIEW . that ‘s the pentagon .before you blindly follow anyone you are responsible to know him and i do not mean from what fox says.germans did not understand who they were backing at first.please evolve.your threat exposes who you are. fix that . the world does not need us we need humanity .we all constitute humanity.you have many many fewer enemies than you are lead to believe.most of your friends are humans.most of humans are your friends.i am your friend.just dont thrash the world in MY NAME.WE HAVE 16660 MURDERS EVERY YEAR IN AMERICA, ARUBA HAS 5
      WHO NEEDS HELP HERE.maybe she’s a runaway bride.i hope so.poor kid.

    43. republican_girl on July 6th, 2005 10:26 pm

      American Bob:

      You want to compare murders in Aruba (5) against murders in USA(16660) but you neglected one bit of information. You need to compare the size of Aruba to the USA. Surely, a small island isn’t going to have the same amount of murders as a large country. It’s not fair to compare apples to oranges.

    44. republican_girl on July 6th, 2005 10:32 pm

      I feel bad for her family. I feel that justice will not be served. The Aruban police do not know how to investigate a situation of this magnitude. They have done a lousy job of collecting evidence. They have waited days to arrest suspects (given them time to dispose of any evidence). They have shown favoritism. It has been 5 weeks and we are no closer to knowing the truth than when she disappeared. This has gotten out of hand and something needs to be done. I think that since so much time has lapsed that the chance of finding her alive or even a body is slim to none. I don’t want to judge without knowing all the facts but, I feel that Joran knows more than he’s telling. I can’t believe that these police officers or investigators can’t get a 17 year old to talk. Unbelievable

    45. um on September 7th, 2005 1:34 pm

      Uggggggggghhhhhhh…..

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